WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.120 --> 00:00:04.200 Welcome to Hacking Your Leadership. I'm Chris and Lorenzo, and welcome to this 2 00:00:04.200 --> 00:00:08.039 week's Thoughtful Thursday. Don't forget to follow us on YouTube at Hacking Your Leadership 3 00:00:08.039 --> 00:00:11.039 and leave us a review on whatever podcast platform you're listening to right now. 4 00:00:11.400 --> 00:00:15.800 On this Thoughtful Thursday, I came across kind of an infograph on LinkedIn called 5 00:00:15.839 --> 00:00:19.960 the ten Principles of Strategic Leadership, and I'm gonna read them to you real 6 00:00:20.039 --> 00:00:24.280 quick. There's a specific one I want to talk about. They are Distribute 7 00:00:24.280 --> 00:00:29.879 responsibility, be honest and open about information, Create multiple paths for raising and 8 00:00:29.920 --> 00:00:35.399 testing ideas, make it safe to fail. Provide access to other strategists, 9 00:00:36.039 --> 00:00:42.079 develop opportunities for experience based learning, hire for transformation, bring your whole self 10 00:00:42.079 --> 00:00:47.560 to work, find time to reflect, and recognize leadership development as an ongoing 11 00:00:47.640 --> 00:00:51.399 practice. And I like all of these. I think that they some of 12 00:00:51.439 --> 00:00:55.560 them are very obvious what they are based on just that little kind of those 13 00:00:55.600 --> 00:01:00.240 few words. Some of them we could do an entire episode or more on 14 00:01:00.280 --> 00:01:04.400 some of them in terms of just the box that opens up, you know, 15 00:01:04.439 --> 00:01:08.000 the box of worms that gets opened up with them and what they actually 16 00:01:08.040 --> 00:01:11.439 mean. But the specific one that I want to talk about here, the 17 00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:14.239 one that kind of piqued my interest a little bit, and one that I 18 00:01:14.280 --> 00:01:19.159 think a lot of leaders they would agree with the statement, but they don't 19 00:01:19.159 --> 00:01:23.400 necessarily do it in practice. And this is this concept of the seventh one, 20 00:01:23.480 --> 00:01:27.400 which is higher for transformation. And we've spoken about this before around hiring 21 00:01:27.439 --> 00:01:33.239 process and the right people to hire, but hiring for transformation. To specifically 22 00:01:33.400 --> 00:01:38.400 say that you're hiring people for transformation, that can that can raise some eyebrows 23 00:01:38.560 --> 00:01:42.760 because you don't necessarily what if things are going well, right, what if 24 00:01:42.760 --> 00:01:46.239 things are going well in your organization, you have a high performing team, 25 00:01:46.680 --> 00:01:49.439 why would you want to change that as opposed to just, you know, 26 00:01:49.799 --> 00:01:53.120 keeping things the way they are. And so I won't know what your thoughts 27 00:01:53.319 --> 00:01:56.760 are about this one. Yeah, Well, I think there's always a need 28 00:01:56.799 --> 00:02:00.799 to constantly evolve. I think when people hear the word change, they immediately 29 00:02:00.879 --> 00:02:04.120 think of like everything must change, everything, like the opposite of what we're 30 00:02:04.120 --> 00:02:06.560 doing now, which is not which is not the case. Right. I 31 00:02:06.599 --> 00:02:12.199 think that even high performing teams great cultures, like you need to feed those 32 00:02:12.400 --> 00:02:15.039 teams. You need to feed the culture with new ideas, new perspectives, 33 00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:20.680 new energy like these are all things that are needed to keep that going, 34 00:02:20.840 --> 00:02:23.400 because I think that if you don't have that happen to the team or to 35 00:02:23.520 --> 00:02:28.159 a culture, then you get really really kind of like complacent and what was 36 00:02:28.240 --> 00:02:30.439 great and what was awesome two years ago, five years ago, ten years 37 00:02:30.479 --> 00:02:35.639 ago, now it feels normal and stale because there's been no evolution, there's 38 00:02:35.680 --> 00:02:40.560 been no change, there's been no addition to you know, by bringing people 39 00:02:40.599 --> 00:02:46.039 in that help to push things forward. And again, like all things in 40 00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:51.199 the world, sometimes those initial ideas are are they hurt, they're tough, 41 00:02:51.280 --> 00:02:53.680 they're different, they're they're not what we've done, and we want to hold 42 00:02:53.719 --> 00:02:59.680 onto things sometimes because that's where we've gotten success before. That's what feels like 43 00:02:59.719 --> 00:03:04.120 what we are today, and that can be really tough for teams or individuals 44 00:03:04.120 --> 00:03:09.520 to think about the future and how that type of kind of like like controlled 45 00:03:09.599 --> 00:03:15.919 conflict. That type of new energy is helpful in questioning the things that we've 46 00:03:15.919 --> 00:03:20.439 done, because then when the answer to the questions are very clear and precise, 47 00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:23.159 then you know that those things are the ones that should stay. When 48 00:03:23.159 --> 00:03:25.360 the answer to the questions that they have are I don't know or this is 49 00:03:25.400 --> 00:03:29.360 why or we've always done it that way, then you know there's room there 50 00:03:29.400 --> 00:03:32.520 that should be addressed and there should be some some different actions that are taken. 51 00:03:32.639 --> 00:03:36.879 Right whenever I see, you know, kind of advice on how to 52 00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:39.919 hire people, there's this thing that happened for a long time where you people 53 00:03:39.919 --> 00:03:46.199 talked about hiring for company fit or cultural fit, and that was kind of 54 00:03:46.240 --> 00:03:51.560 like the way forward for many many years. And at some point someone said, 55 00:03:52.039 --> 00:03:55.599 well, if you if you hire for cultural fit or company fit and 56 00:03:55.759 --> 00:03:59.800 you don't kind of quantify that with something else, you don't kind of, 57 00:04:00.039 --> 00:04:04.080 you know, really outline what that means, you end up hiring people that 58 00:04:04.280 --> 00:04:09.919 continue the way things are currently going, whatever that looks like. And so 59 00:04:10.199 --> 00:04:14.719 you don't hire for transformation. You hire for people who are really good at 60 00:04:14.800 --> 00:04:18.439 continuing to do the things that you see as working well for you in the 61 00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:23.319 moment. And so when you're talking about the idea of hiring for transformation, 62 00:04:24.199 --> 00:04:28.600 I kind of interpret that as being you're hiring for the ability to transform number 63 00:04:28.600 --> 00:04:31.959 one, meaning people who are comfortable with the idea of transformation and of change, 64 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:35.920 even if it's gradual, because it will always be happening not someone who's 65 00:04:35.959 --> 00:04:40.399 going to kind of fight against change, fight to keep things the way they 66 00:04:40.399 --> 00:04:44.480 are, but be able to objectively look at a situation and decide whether or 67 00:04:44.519 --> 00:04:47.480 not things need to stay the same or if they need to evolve or change 68 00:04:47.519 --> 00:04:53.319 as as you move forward, even if it means having to do their work 69 00:04:53.439 --> 00:04:57.279 differently. And that's where the kind of the rubber meets the road here. 70 00:04:57.480 --> 00:05:02.839 If a team is hiring for transformation, they're hiring people who are not kind 71 00:05:02.879 --> 00:05:08.199 of intimidated by the idea of changing the way they have to do things, 72 00:05:08.680 --> 00:05:13.439 because they understand what's good for business as a whole as you go forward. 73 00:05:14.240 --> 00:05:17.639 When you hire for company or cultural fit, where that fit should be is 74 00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:21.879 on a from a value standpoint. You should be hiring for someone who holds 75 00:05:21.879 --> 00:05:27.959 the same values that your organization has or that your team has, but how 76 00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:32.639 they bring those values to life. There should be a very wide mix of 77 00:05:32.680 --> 00:05:38.240 how people bring those values to life, because that will in kind that will 78 00:05:38.279 --> 00:05:44.600 initiate those conversations, those those kind of like friendly headbuttings that happen when both 79 00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:47.120 of you have the same X marks the spot of where you have to go 80 00:05:47.199 --> 00:05:51.160 to, but you have different ideas on how to get there. You combine 81 00:05:51.240 --> 00:05:57.040 that with some psychological safety and there's no stopping that team in terms of what 82 00:05:57.079 --> 00:05:59.360 they can do. And so what I want you, Lorenzo, is have 83 00:05:59.560 --> 00:06:03.959 you ever been in a situation where you were hired for transformation? You were 84 00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:10.240 brought in to a situation because there's some transformation was needed, and you had 85 00:06:10.279 --> 00:06:14.879 to find a way to kind of fit in to make sure that people understood 86 00:06:14.879 --> 00:06:17.000 that your values were aligned. But you also had a job to do there, 87 00:06:17.040 --> 00:06:19.639 and part of that job was, you know, kind of shaking up 88 00:06:19.639 --> 00:06:21.560 the status quo. So I want to ask you that, but first I 89 00:06:21.600 --> 00:06:25.839 want to get up to words one of our sponsors. All right, Lorenzo, 90 00:06:25.920 --> 00:06:29.000 when was the last time you went into a situation and stood up in 91 00:06:29.040 --> 00:06:31.240 front of everybody and said, all right, all this stuff's changing, get 92 00:06:31.319 --> 00:06:38.560 used to it, and had that go over every day my life? No, 93 00:06:38.759 --> 00:06:44.839 I recently, obviously, as a leader of leaders, I've led teams, 94 00:06:45.000 --> 00:06:46.680 led different teams, and that's different. That's different when you are kind 95 00:06:46.720 --> 00:06:54.199 of like the leader that's responsible for, you know, a team. The 96 00:06:54.240 --> 00:06:57.600 time that I can think of was many many, many many years ago where 97 00:06:57.639 --> 00:07:00.600 I was not the leader, but I was an assistant manager was added to 98 00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:04.680 a team to help with some of the cultural transformation. And that was a 99 00:07:04.680 --> 00:07:11.000 tough, tough time because again I was kind of asked to be there and 100 00:07:11.199 --> 00:07:14.560 was given that exact reasoning of like, we are asking you to go do 101 00:07:14.600 --> 00:07:18.959 this work because the culture that we need to exist within this team, we 102 00:07:19.040 --> 00:07:23.600 think you could help with that. But also, uh, you know, 103 00:07:23.680 --> 00:07:25.800 if if if the culture was what we wanted it to be, then you 104 00:07:25.839 --> 00:07:29.639 wouldn't have to go there. And so like there was this kind of relationship 105 00:07:29.720 --> 00:07:33.839 element where U I had to go in and influence a team with with my 106 00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:40.399 direct boss being the one responsible for the previous culture and now the current culture. 107 00:07:40.839 --> 00:07:43.759 And those were tough times. And I think what I learned through that 108 00:07:44.519 --> 00:07:50.000 um was building the most amount of trust that I could by just doing the 109 00:07:50.000 --> 00:07:55.040 work, by by being there, by having an open mind, by listening, 110 00:07:55.720 --> 00:07:59.720 by picking my moments, picking picking the times when I felt that I 111 00:07:59.800 --> 00:08:03.600 need to speak up maybe and push back on something, and then over time, 112 00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:07.839 picking the times when it was best to just kind of like sit back, 113 00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:11.600 listen, learn and understand. But I really think that in those moments 114 00:08:13.680 --> 00:08:16.639 I had to find advocates. I had to find people that wanted to go 115 00:08:16.680 --> 00:08:22.040 on this journey with me. I had to build trusts from the team. 116 00:08:22.079 --> 00:08:26.240 I had to get the respect of my peers, and for me at that 117 00:08:26.319 --> 00:08:28.600 time, the only way I knew how to do that was just going there 118 00:08:28.600 --> 00:08:31.639 and do a really great job at what I was responsible for. Be willing 119 00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:33.879 to do the work to the best of my ability, Be willing to support 120 00:08:35.480 --> 00:08:37.480 the other leaders the other teams when they asked for it, be present, 121 00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:43.440 be available to the team. And through that time and through those behaviors, 122 00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:48.440 I was able to garnish enough trust from those around me that when I was 123 00:08:48.639 --> 00:08:52.960 providing my thoughts or my insights, over time, they would listen to more 124 00:08:52.960 --> 00:08:56.639 and more and more often. And it was not It wasn't long. I 125 00:08:56.679 --> 00:09:00.360 was not there for a very long time. So I'm talking about this transition 126 00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:03.080 happening over a couple of maybe months, but it was a lot of really 127 00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:09.320 intentional work. And looking back on it now, I think that I think 128 00:09:09.320 --> 00:09:13.639 that I did the right thing by role modeling the behaviors. I think what 129 00:09:13.720 --> 00:09:18.360 I've learned since then is I should have walked in and been much more curious 130 00:09:18.440 --> 00:09:22.279 about how they did things. And I wish I had the skill at that 131 00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:26.759 point to ask questions that would have walked them down the path of where I 132 00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:30.080 felt they needed to go and having it be their ideas like that. I 133 00:09:30.080 --> 00:09:33.279 think that's what I've learned over the time, is that there's a different way 134 00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:37.360 to do this, which is not just to like go in and then just 135 00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:41.240 do everything for everybody and then find the conflict what I needed to I could 136 00:09:41.279 --> 00:09:46.000 have gone in there and been like talked about the great things that were happening, 137 00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:50.120 talked about the things that I saw, recognizing the right behaviors when I 138 00:09:50.120 --> 00:09:54.919 saw them, and then asking questions in a very curious but non judgmental way 139 00:09:54.120 --> 00:09:58.120 to understand why they were doing things the way they were doing them, and 140 00:09:58.200 --> 00:10:03.639 then and then helping them to find and the answers that would help them build 141 00:10:03.639 --> 00:10:07.399 a better culture collectively. UM, I think that's probably what I learned from 142 00:10:07.440 --> 00:10:11.360 then till now. Right, no one ever changed the way they do things 143 00:10:11.440 --> 00:10:13.159 by being told that the current way of doing things, you know, made 144 00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:16.039 them stupid or that they were wrong for doing it, you know. The 145 00:10:16.039 --> 00:10:22.720 The idea of having people believe that the change was self imposed and that they 146 00:10:22.759 --> 00:10:26.440 decided this was the right thing to do while you kind of knowing in the 147 00:10:26.440 --> 00:10:28.200 background that you you know, kind of sowed the seeds of it. You 148 00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:31.399 know, you didn't you know, you didn't beat them over the head with 149 00:10:31.399 --> 00:10:35.720 it. You you demonstrated what good looked like and the right way of doing 150 00:10:35.759 --> 00:10:39.200 things, and and it was kind of, um, they kind of learned 151 00:10:39.759 --> 00:10:43.840 by osmosis in terms of being able to take those things and go forward with 152 00:10:43.879 --> 00:10:48.039 it. But again that's that's something that comes with just experience, you know, 153 00:10:48.120 --> 00:10:50.879 doing doing things a certain way, and and they both can work. 154 00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:56.600 You know, if you if the team wasn't wasn't showing success when you came 155 00:10:56.639 --> 00:11:01.919 in already, then that becomes sometimes easier because you know, it's it's hard 156 00:11:01.960 --> 00:11:05.279 to say, it's hard for a leader to say we're doing things right when 157 00:11:05.320 --> 00:11:11.799 the results that are being expected aren't there right. Where this becomes more of 158 00:11:11.919 --> 00:11:16.080 a process for a lot of teams, and something that needs to be incredibly 159 00:11:16.120 --> 00:11:20.840 intentional is when you're trying to hire for transformation but things are going well, 160 00:11:22.279 --> 00:11:26.320 and this is about just getting the right people in place so that when these 161 00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:30.639 things need to happen, they can as opposed to owe things need to happen. 162 00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:33.039 Now we got to change up the whole team because no one on the 163 00:11:33.039 --> 00:11:35.159 team wants to make any changes. No one on the team wants to transform 164 00:11:35.480 --> 00:11:39.519 or be a part of this. And that's difficult to do when you don't 165 00:11:39.559 --> 00:11:43.200 see a need for it because again, at the moment, things seem to 166 00:11:43.240 --> 00:11:45.639 be running smooth. So I like that example a lot. I think a 167 00:11:45.679 --> 00:11:48.840 lot of leaders really get it. Get in situations where they have to be 168 00:11:48.879 --> 00:11:52.720 able to transform or hire people for transformation, and they can't do it because 169 00:11:52.759 --> 00:11:58.679 they haven't started the process when things didn't need to transform. Absolutely and but 170 00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:01.440 that it brings us to the end of this episode. This is hacking leadership. 171 00:12:01.440 --> 00:12:03.639 I'm Lorenzo and I'm Chris, and have a great day.