WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.359 --> 00:00:07.599 I'm Casey Tanner and I'm Camille Lewis, and this is safe word. Safe 2 00:00:07.599 --> 00:00:11.800 word is sex therapy unhinged because instead of being a blank slate that's just here 3 00:00:11.800 --> 00:00:15.400 to support you, we're telling you all the details about our own sex lives, 4 00:00:15.439 --> 00:00:19.600 relationships, identities and more. This isn't sex and it's not therapy, 5 00:00:19.679 --> 00:00:23.399 but we are sex therapists and what you hear today may excite you. Each 6 00:00:23.399 --> 00:00:27.440 week we talk a theme related to sex, relationships, gender, and more. 7 00:00:27.879 --> 00:01:06.159 This week we're diving into the theme three somes and more. Sums yes, 8 00:01:06.239 --> 00:01:10.200 yes, yes, yes fun. Also, Casey, you're giving Big 9 00:01:10.640 --> 00:01:15.799 Laura La Gilmore energy today with is it the blue eyes and the brown hair? 10 00:01:15.879 --> 00:01:19.519 Yeah? Yeah, thereka is no better compliment. Thank you so much. 11 00:01:19.840 --> 00:01:23.560 There's the you know, it's a great combo. Thank you, thank 12 00:01:23.599 --> 00:01:27.840 you. I'm so excited for this episode so that you can teach me about 13 00:01:29.560 --> 00:01:36.319 group sex. Oh, there's some not no pressure at all. I just 14 00:01:36.519 --> 00:01:40.359 I was reading these questions and I was like, damn, this is humbling. 15 00:01:40.840 --> 00:01:45.040 I've had one threesome. This is not necessarily my area of expertise. 16 00:01:45.079 --> 00:01:48.719 So maybe I'll just put that out there that well, first, that you 17 00:01:48.760 --> 00:01:51.680 should take everything I say today with a grain of salt. This is me, 18 00:01:51.959 --> 00:01:57.079 as a relationship therapist thinking out loud about threesomes and more sums and I 19 00:01:57.120 --> 00:02:00.879 think two as as our podcast coordinator at pointed out, maybe some of the 20 00:02:00.959 --> 00:02:06.079 anxiety and nervousness I'm feeling today is what a lot of people feel when they 21 00:02:06.359 --> 00:02:10.840 think about or maybe join group sex for the first time. Absolutely, And 22 00:02:12.159 --> 00:02:15.199 you know, all of this is so exciting to talk about, I think 23 00:02:15.199 --> 00:02:22.680 because it's also like inherently relational. We're all just we're talking about connecting with 24 00:02:22.719 --> 00:02:28.199 people. So maybe that will help you ease into this episode and know that 25 00:02:28.240 --> 00:02:30.960 you probably have a lot more to contribute than you think. Thank you. 26 00:02:31.719 --> 00:02:36.560 Do you want to maybe tell a story? I can tell a story. 27 00:02:37.280 --> 00:02:42.560 Yeah, story time totally. I have a couple of stories I could tell. 28 00:02:42.680 --> 00:02:47.800 One is on a threesome that I had in Jamaica on the beach. 29 00:02:49.000 --> 00:02:53.159 Oh my god. Also was my first time having like beach. Actually, 30 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:59.159 when we talked about water sex, I kind of did, sure, water 31 00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:04.439 that's right? And a threesome Damn it was great. I was in Jamaica 32 00:03:04.639 --> 00:03:08.919 for a wedding and there was a couple there and when I start drinking. 33 00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:15.680 I'm just a little bit more like most people uninhibited about the things that I 34 00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:21.400 say. And there was just this couple and I just felt like the vibes 35 00:03:21.439 --> 00:03:24.240 were strong. It was like a het couple, and the girl was like 36 00:03:24.319 --> 00:03:28.719 giving me some vibes and I was like, you know, I was like, 37 00:03:28.840 --> 00:03:35.000 are you like into women in like a gay way? Yeah, so 38 00:03:35.120 --> 00:03:37.639 much. And she starts laughing. She's like, oh my god, wait, 39 00:03:37.680 --> 00:03:39.759 what what makes you ask that? And I was like, I don't 40 00:03:39.800 --> 00:03:45.960 know, You're like throwing very strong energy. And so, I mean, 41 00:03:46.039 --> 00:03:47.960 long story short, like I ended up we were like, okay, like 42 00:03:49.039 --> 00:03:52.960 we should do this, and then they were in like a long term relationship 43 00:03:52.960 --> 00:03:57.879 and so he was very much like trying to respect her comfort and which I 44 00:03:57.879 --> 00:04:02.120 thought was really sweet. And I went to their room and I thought that 45 00:04:02.159 --> 00:04:04.840 we were just going to hook up there, but then we ended up going 46 00:04:04.840 --> 00:04:10.680 down to the beach and then it was just like body parts everywhere, and 47 00:04:10.719 --> 00:04:15.159 we were like in the in the water and the shallow end and then like 48 00:04:15.319 --> 00:04:18.079 on like a cabana bed, and you know, it was pretty wild. 49 00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:24.279 And then like, yeah, it was pretty great and it was a lot 50 00:04:24.319 --> 00:04:29.639 of fun and also I think afterward after we got back to the States, 51 00:04:29.839 --> 00:04:34.000 um, we had exchanged numbers, me and the and the woman exchanged numbers 52 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:36.759 and it was funny because I didn't have a swimsuit, so she let me 53 00:04:36.800 --> 00:04:40.920 borrow hers, and I would like sent her a picture of one day wearing 54 00:04:40.920 --> 00:04:44.399 it, and she actually called me to talk about what had happened. And 55 00:04:44.439 --> 00:04:46.399 I was nervous at first because I was like, she sent me a text, 56 00:04:46.519 --> 00:04:48.360 was like can we talk and I was like, oh God, like 57 00:04:48.439 --> 00:04:51.639 I fucked something up. But she was just like I just wanted to make 58 00:04:51.639 --> 00:04:56.439 sure that everything was okay with you, and like I had a lot of 59 00:04:56.480 --> 00:05:00.519 fun, and also like she had some nervousness because her boyfriend was like, 60 00:05:00.600 --> 00:05:03.759 I don't know if this is like what we should be doing. Like he 61 00:05:03.839 --> 00:05:08.120 actually had more reservations than she did. And she was like, let's get 62 00:05:08.160 --> 00:05:12.560 and pop in again. And it was really interesting and she's like, and 63 00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:16.079 I know you're a sex therapist, so it was really a wonderful experience. 64 00:05:16.199 --> 00:05:23.319 And they're both really hot, and yeah, I love I love their attention 65 00:05:23.360 --> 00:05:26.399 to you, and I love the aftercare. Yeah, and I think it's 66 00:05:26.439 --> 00:05:29.759 so interesting. I imagine this happens a lot where where maybe if it's a 67 00:05:29.759 --> 00:05:32.120 threesome and there's a couple in the dynamic, they're really anxious about like how 68 00:05:32.439 --> 00:05:35.199 how's the third feeling, how's feeling? But in this case, you're like, 69 00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:39.680 I'm fine, Like y'all are a little bit more anxious than I am. 70 00:05:39.879 --> 00:05:44.439 Yeah, so interesting the things we assumed to going into it totally and 71 00:05:44.480 --> 00:05:46.279 I you know, when I got there, I was like, so, 72 00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:49.519 how is everyone feeling? As like, what are some of the things that 73 00:05:49.560 --> 00:05:54.560 are off limits? And you know, there was definitely some like you know, 74 00:05:54.800 --> 00:05:59.120 I think that this happens like the prioritization of like what sex looks like 75 00:05:59.160 --> 00:06:01.319 and like if it's penis and vagina, than that is off limits, which 76 00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:05.319 is something that they were that was off limits for them, which I have, 77 00:06:05.519 --> 00:06:09.000 you know, I have thoughts about what we can get into it later. 78 00:06:09.439 --> 00:06:11.879 But at the same time, I was like, this is spontaneous, 79 00:06:11.920 --> 00:06:15.319 it's happening. I don't this is not I don't need to push against this 80 00:06:15.399 --> 00:06:18.439 because I recognize that all the things that we're about to do are going to 81 00:06:18.519 --> 00:06:24.759 be it's all sex, So okay, well, while we're there, Yeah, 82 00:06:24.800 --> 00:06:27.000 I don't think this is an exact question, But I am curious, 83 00:06:27.040 --> 00:06:30.399 like, what are the thoughts you had about penis vagina sex being off limits 84 00:06:30.399 --> 00:06:35.720 in this threesome or in threeesomes generally. I don't want to like reduce it, 85 00:06:35.759 --> 00:06:41.120 but I think that in general, if because so many people think of 86 00:06:41.160 --> 00:06:45.480 that as being what defines sex, I think it just is like pretty and 87 00:06:45.800 --> 00:06:51.399 inherently like a little bit homophobic, because I'm just like, well, if 88 00:06:51.720 --> 00:06:59.560 we're all touching each other and making out an oral and fingers and also like 89 00:06:59.680 --> 00:07:04.800 all sorts of stuff, you know, why is it only sex if this 90 00:07:04.920 --> 00:07:09.920 happens with me? So I have some thoughts about that. I think that 91 00:07:09.959 --> 00:07:13.680 a lot of people do. And I think especially you know, for people 92 00:07:13.720 --> 00:07:19.519 who have volva's who have sex with one another and it not being considered cheating 93 00:07:19.560 --> 00:07:23.959 to some people or not be considered sex to some people. I think that 94 00:07:24.040 --> 00:07:28.079 it is particular to that as well, And you know, I take some 95 00:07:28.160 --> 00:07:31.079 issues with that. Yeah, I could see why that makes sense. I 96 00:07:31.160 --> 00:07:34.240 was going to share the singular story that I have to offer, which is 97 00:07:34.279 --> 00:07:39.319 about a threesome I had maybe two or three years ago. It could not 98 00:07:39.399 --> 00:07:43.439 have been more ideal for me. I was out with my partner where you 99 00:07:43.519 --> 00:07:46.720 ran into a woman that I had been into for a really long time but 100 00:07:46.800 --> 00:07:49.040 hadn't really gotten to hook up with, and she seemed into us, we 101 00:07:49.079 --> 00:07:55.079 seemed to her. Now, I imagine that it's not best practices to have 102 00:07:55.560 --> 00:08:00.879 zero conversation about what's about to happen, But everything was really nonverse bowl in 103 00:08:00.879 --> 00:08:03.120 a way that I think, I think ended up feeling good for all of 104 00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:07.079 us. But we basically went back to my place. I was drunk, 105 00:08:07.160 --> 00:08:11.560 so I don't remember every detail of it, but what I do remember is 106 00:08:11.600 --> 00:08:16.439 my biggest fear was what jealousy would come over me? Would there be ways 107 00:08:16.480 --> 00:08:22.959 that she pleasured my partner that were better than I could, or would I 108 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:26.279 see a face of total pleasure come over my partner that I'd never had her 109 00:08:26.360 --> 00:08:30.120 makeup before, And would I never be able to get that out of my 110 00:08:30.120 --> 00:08:33.159 head? Obviously I'm saying that struggles with jealousy if you can't tell. But 111 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:37.200 none of that, none of that came up. I felt totally safe, 112 00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:41.960 totally held, I felt I felt like ready to do it again. We 113 00:08:43.080 --> 00:08:46.799 all debriefed the next morning, and we bought my roommate donuts because I feel 114 00:08:46.799 --> 00:08:50.320 like we were really loud and obnoxious and it was it was all around a 115 00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:54.840 great experience. So yeah, I and we hadn't talked about, no rules 116 00:08:54.840 --> 00:08:58.879 ahead of time, nothing like that, and it was just one of those 117 00:08:58.879 --> 00:09:03.120 situations where we all I think we all just respected each other. I think 118 00:09:03.159 --> 00:09:07.399 also having a b three women was like a particular vibe as well. So 119 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:11.279 I don't know, as we get into this, I might I might have 120 00:09:11.320 --> 00:09:16.679 different thoughts about that experience in retrospect. But it was great, that's amazing, 121 00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:18.759 and I think it just shows like there's a million different ways that this 122 00:09:18.799 --> 00:09:26.480 can happen and it can be so fun and fulfilling. And I actually a 123 00:09:26.519 --> 00:09:31.320 group of friends had group sex like a couple of weekends ago, and I 124 00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:35.200 missed it and I was so mad. And it was like a bunch of 125 00:09:35.240 --> 00:09:39.320 like of queer women as well, and they were like, yeah, Camille 126 00:09:39.320 --> 00:09:43.039 should have been here. So I felt missed. You were missed. I 127 00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:48.320 have no doubt, but I'm real sad it'll happen again. I have a 128 00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:54.000 feeling. Yeah, I hope. So I have a feeling. Okay, 129 00:09:54.080 --> 00:09:58.799 let's dive in. Let's do it. So I'm gonna ask you first one 130 00:09:58.840 --> 00:10:01.840 because I'm self conscious and too because we kind of started talking about this. 131 00:10:01.879 --> 00:10:09.120 So unicorn hunting obviously a really controversial behavior. Yep, what do you think 132 00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:15.519 maybe we define it as well? From my understanding is typically, and you 133 00:10:15.559 --> 00:10:20.240 know this is a very gendered understanding of it, typically a het couple who 134 00:10:20.279 --> 00:10:28.759 looks for a bisexual theem or woman to join in their sex life or relationship. 135 00:10:28.960 --> 00:10:31.279 Is that your understanding of it. Not to throw more controversial phrases even 136 00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:35.759 into the definition of this, but like a het presenting couple, often a 137 00:10:35.799 --> 00:10:43.360 couple wherein one member of the relationship is bipan queer pulling a third in. 138 00:10:43.279 --> 00:10:50.879 I almost ever hear unicorn hunting being about actually wanting any kind of polyamory or 139 00:10:50.960 --> 00:10:54.960 any kind of long term relationship. Usually it's positioned as playing together. Could 140 00:10:56.000 --> 00:10:58.039 be once, could be repeatedly, but the idea is, yes, there's 141 00:10:58.039 --> 00:11:03.279 one couple and then a third being brought in. I think I've complicated thoughts 142 00:11:03.320 --> 00:11:07.240 about it, Like on the one hand, like I think that there has 143 00:11:07.279 --> 00:11:11.919 been some conversation I think in the community about like what this phrasing means and 144 00:11:13.240 --> 00:11:16.159 what it means about exclusivity and things like that. On the other end, 145 00:11:16.519 --> 00:11:20.200 my been in a situation I was, I guess, considered to be the 146 00:11:20.279 --> 00:11:24.639 unicorn in that situation, and because I felt like cared for, it didn't 147 00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:28.360 really bother me. And I also didn't feel like preyed upon. And I 148 00:11:28.399 --> 00:11:31.159 think that that's what the phrasing brings about, is just like just like, 149 00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:35.799 you know, like putting like your sights on anybody who will do it, 150 00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:39.799 and just kind of in a more predatory sense and not in like a humane, 151 00:11:39.399 --> 00:11:43.399 person centered sense. And so I think that that's where it trips me 152 00:11:43.519 --> 00:11:48.159 up. I don't think that the desire to like have a threesome with another 153 00:11:48.200 --> 00:11:52.919 person in and a like, that's not an issue. I think that the 154 00:11:52.960 --> 00:11:56.360 ethos or the language around unicorn hunting, I think can sometimes feel just a 155 00:11:56.360 --> 00:11:58.759 little bit yucky. No, I agree. I think I think we've maybe 156 00:11:58.759 --> 00:12:03.080 taken it a little bit too far and said anytime head presenting a couple is 157 00:12:03.080 --> 00:12:05.960 looking for a third, that that's unethical, and that's not true at all, 158 00:12:07.039 --> 00:12:11.600 right. It's more it's more like, if there's any objectification that isn't 159 00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:16.960 consensual or dehumanization, if they're exercising a lot of couple's privilege with no conversation, 160 00:12:18.039 --> 00:12:20.919 no awareness of it. That's that's when it gets harmful. But it's 161 00:12:22.360 --> 00:12:26.840 I mean, hunting is also such a stigmatizing word, Like it is really 162 00:12:26.960 --> 00:12:31.200 hard to make these things happen, to create spaces where this happens. And 163 00:12:31.279 --> 00:12:33.919 I think, Okay, maybe we're on the hunt whatever, but like we're 164 00:12:33.960 --> 00:12:39.120 just we're just looking in a world where it can sometimes be hard to find 165 00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:43.399 people who share the same desires as us. So yeah, it can be 166 00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:46.960 done poorly, but I think to your point, it can be done. 167 00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:54.759 It could be done ethically. Yeah, absolutely, Okay. Our next question 168 00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:58.120 says, I want to talk to my therapists about my nerves about going to 169 00:12:58.159 --> 00:13:03.840 a sex party, but I'm afraid since the therapeutic relationship is obviously a microcosm 170 00:13:03.879 --> 00:13:07.799 of our other relationships, Like I'd really just wonder what goes on for you 171 00:13:09.080 --> 00:13:13.080 when you think about sex parties generally, if they're shame guild, the anticipation 172 00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:16.360 that you'll be judged. What do you think people will perceive or wonder about 173 00:13:16.399 --> 00:13:20.519 you if you say out loud that you're somebody that's excited about a sex party. 174 00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:24.000 Those are things that, of course would we would worry about with our 175 00:13:24.039 --> 00:13:30.399 therapists, right it's just another relationship. So in any of the cases where 176 00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:33.559 somebody is worried about bringing something up, I always encouraged talking about talking about 177 00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:37.840 it, maybe before talking about it. So this could look like there's something 178 00:13:37.879 --> 00:13:41.480 I want to bring up. I've been thinking about it for a while, 179 00:13:41.759 --> 00:13:43.600 but I feel hesitant, And you could even just stop there because a good 180 00:13:43.639 --> 00:13:48.320 therapist is going to know how to engage in that conversation. Or if you 181 00:13:48.360 --> 00:13:52.559 want to say, like I mean, I actually think when it comes to 182 00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:58.200 belief systems, orientations, behaviors that tend to be stigmatized, I think we 183 00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:01.440 have the right to ask our therapists their stance on it before we launch into 184 00:14:01.480 --> 00:14:05.879 anything vulnerable. So you might feel your therapist out and you might have really 185 00:14:05.879 --> 00:14:09.720 good reasons for being afraid of bringing it up with your particular there. If 186 00:14:09.720 --> 00:14:13.559 I brought up sex party with my sis male het therapist, which you know, 187 00:14:13.799 --> 00:14:16.000 do a whole episode on that, he probably he probably would judge me. 188 00:14:16.039 --> 00:14:20.679 I choose not to bring them up there, but I think you could 189 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:24.519 ask, like, what's your stance on this, what's your experience with this? 190 00:14:24.679 --> 00:14:26.799 And if they have a stigmatizing response right off the bat, it's like 191 00:14:26.840 --> 00:14:30.679 Okay, this isn't the this isn't where you're going to bring this, and 192 00:14:30.720 --> 00:14:33.919 if you feel brave enough in that moment, it's not that this is your 193 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:37.960 job, but it could be interesting to actually say, like, Okay, 194 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:41.519 your response actually made me not feel so safe to talk about this here. 195 00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:46.080 That could be an interesting conversation in therapy. So lots of directions you can 196 00:14:46.120 --> 00:14:50.679 go with this. M I agree. I mean, I think that it's 197 00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:58.480 normal to feel fear or shame when talking about things that have typically been stigmatized. 198 00:14:58.559 --> 00:15:05.399 There's not a lot of space anywhere where these things are feel like readily 199 00:15:05.440 --> 00:15:09.399 available or approachable. So the fact that yeah, therapy is a microcosm of 200 00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:15.039 like what happens outside of the therapy space makes sense that you'd be like, 201 00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:18.960 what is coming up for me about this and to have some nerves and some 202 00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:24.840 yeah feelings about going to Yeah, I think it makes I mean, hey, 203 00:15:24.879 --> 00:15:28.399 it makes sense. And like, also, I love the feeling out 204 00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:33.919 the therapist before and maybe this is a therapist with whom you've never talked about 205 00:15:33.960 --> 00:15:37.679 sex at all. It is part of a therapist job to be able to 206 00:15:37.720 --> 00:15:41.440 talk about a lot of things. And if this person doesn't feel like they 207 00:15:41.480 --> 00:15:46.519 are aligned with you and your values, you know, kind of like you 208 00:15:46.519 --> 00:15:48.919 said, Casey, like, maybe that doesn't feel like the place to bring 209 00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:54.000 it, and maybe you look for a therapist that feels or a therapist or 210 00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:56.759 a coach. I guess who could talk to you about this very specific thing, 211 00:15:56.759 --> 00:16:00.840 and maybe you talk with that with them they are, and then everything 212 00:16:00.840 --> 00:16:03.960 else with the other therapist, because it doesn't mean that they are a bad 213 00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:08.639 therapist necessarily, but I think that when you're talking about something vulnerable, you'd 214 00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:14.720 want someone equipped to hold space for you in a way that feels like valuable 215 00:16:14.759 --> 00:16:17.960 to you. Yeah. Right, The last thing you want is your therapist 216 00:16:18.279 --> 00:16:26.480 actually adding shame in stigma. Yeah, we're going to take a quick break 217 00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:30.639 to talk about an amazing show Bedside, And I know it's amazing because a 218 00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:33.120 couple of months ago I was a guest in The conversation is seriously not to 219 00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:37.840 miss questions like how do I have better orgasms, build amazing relationships? Talking 220 00:16:37.879 --> 00:16:41.840 about what does good sex mean? What does that look like in practice? 221 00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:48.360 Each week on Bedside, sex educator Tatiana Dells into intimate interviews and explorations around 222 00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:52.480 modern day sex, dating, love, and wellness with the little manifestation sprinkled 223 00:16:52.480 --> 00:16:57.120 in there too. Bedside chats with sexperts and wellness thought leaders about the many 224 00:16:57.240 --> 00:17:02.759 and unique approaches to sex pleasure, all while keeping you curious, informed, 225 00:17:02.840 --> 00:17:06.720 and of course, having fun. You can expect topics like friend breakups, 226 00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:11.519 ghosting, tips from sex therapists, and explorations into the energetics around love, 227 00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:17.039 partnership, and sexuality. Tune into Bedside wherever podcasts are found, available on 228 00:17:17.079 --> 00:17:21.720 all streaming platforms. Bedside is your go to resource for all things good sex. 229 00:17:23.559 --> 00:17:29.359 Next question, it's an ethical way for a couple to approach a third 230 00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:33.200 person to invite into a threesome. I there are a lot of options. 231 00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:37.440 Yeah, I feel like there's a lot of options when I am thinking about 232 00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:42.000 the different experiences that I've had, Like the one that I described at the 233 00:17:42.039 --> 00:17:45.200 beginning of the episode, it was kind of like I threw it out there 234 00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:49.279 because I was feeling the vibes. But I've also had a threesome where it 235 00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:53.720 was like an X of mine and we ended up having a threesome with my 236 00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:57.039 best friend. And I don't know if I've talked about that here. That 237 00:17:57.160 --> 00:18:03.119 was a choice I was in my early monnies, and I think that this 238 00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:04.960 is probably something that comes up a lot. I don't know. My motivation 239 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:10.920 to having a threesome was probably to try and save the relationship and interesting, 240 00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:15.480 and I think that that does happen. I didn't feel like yucky or anything 241 00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:21.599 about it, but I've had approached my friend and essentially like just asked her 242 00:18:21.759 --> 00:18:26.000 and just talked to her about it and was just like, what's your vibe 243 00:18:26.039 --> 00:18:29.319 with this? I mean, this is literally over ten years ago. Wow. 244 00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:36.240 And I think we were also like rewatching the L word together, she 245 00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:40.359 and I and so it was like we're already like feeling very because the L 246 00:18:40.400 --> 00:18:41.240 word, especially at that time. I was like, this is this like 247 00:18:41.319 --> 00:18:45.279 sophomore and I'm here for it. Yeah. And so then we were just 248 00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:47.480 kind of in the moon. I was like, what's your stance on this, 249 00:18:47.519 --> 00:18:52.240 and like we would be interested if you would. And then we all 250 00:18:52.359 --> 00:18:56.160 were at a strip club and then we were like in a room getting a 251 00:18:56.720 --> 00:19:00.000 like a private dance of the three of us from a striper. I was 252 00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:02.680 really fun, and then went to a hotel. It was great, like 253 00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:06.440 I had a great time, and then she and I ended up having sex 254 00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:10.680 just the two of us at a later date. So, okay, after 255 00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:12.319 I broke up with this X who was terrible, Wait, can I ask 256 00:19:12.359 --> 00:19:15.400 a follow up question about about what you just said? You said you think 257 00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:19.119 maybe in retrospect, you were having a threesome to try to save the relationship. 258 00:19:19.880 --> 00:19:23.240 I definitely, of course, I'm familiar with opening up as an attempt 259 00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:27.319 to save the relationship. I've never heard of like sex with a third person 260 00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:30.839 being an attempt to save the relationship. So I'm so curious about that. 261 00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:34.160 I mean, I think that in my mind, I was just feeling really 262 00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:38.599 desperate to hang on to this person, and it had been mentioned as something 263 00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:44.039 that he was interested in. It was something that I was always interested in, 264 00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:48.880 as I think, especially like as I was navigating like my identity as 265 00:19:48.920 --> 00:19:52.079 bisexual, and so I was like, that sounds dope. I'm trying to 266 00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:56.240 be with all of the body parts, like I don't care. I think 267 00:19:56.279 --> 00:19:57.319 as we were going through issues, I'm like, well, what about a 268 00:19:57.319 --> 00:20:00.599 threesome? You know kind of just says this a to be like I'm so 269 00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:06.559 cool and see and down and like you're never going to find anybody else like 270 00:20:07.319 --> 00:20:11.960 as awesome compleet sense. Yeah, yeah, that really helps me understand, 271 00:20:11.559 --> 00:20:17.079 and it sounds like for you in retrospect, it didn't feel like it still 272 00:20:17.079 --> 00:20:18.519 felt values aligned. At the end of the day, it did, and 273 00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:22.440 I think that the next day I went over to her house and we just 274 00:20:22.519 --> 00:20:26.799 kind of looked at each other and we're like, okay, happened. Yeah, 275 00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:30.039 and then we just like ordered food and cuddled and kept watching the Alt 276 00:20:30.039 --> 00:20:33.559 words amazing. Oh my god, I love that so much. Yeah, 277 00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:37.400 but I have not answer as the question about like how to you ask someone. 278 00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:41.039 I think that I think that you pose it as a curiosity, not 279 00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:47.480 a demand, and that is an assumption which I think can happen a lot. 280 00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:51.039 You know, there's a bunch of stuff that's like you get approached at 281 00:20:51.039 --> 00:20:53.240 a bar and it's like me and my partner think you're cute, and that 282 00:20:53.359 --> 00:21:00.680 that's like the that's like the entry to which I'm like, why should it? 283 00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:03.160 I mean, I guess there when it's a couple approaching somebody else, 284 00:21:03.160 --> 00:21:07.440 there's some power dynamics involved there, But why should it be so different from 285 00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:11.200 approaching an individual as an individual? Right? Like, you're you're still just 286 00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:18.119 hitting on somebody, You're still just inviting somebody in I think not that it's 287 00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:19.640 wrong to walk up to somebody at a bar and say, like, do 288 00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:23.319 you want to go home with me? You know, sometimes sometimes it's right, 289 00:21:23.759 --> 00:21:30.279 but I think often you warm up, you flirt, you figure out 290 00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:36.119 if it feels like there's vibes, and so I wonder if you maybe flirts 291 00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:41.160 as a couple and you just see if they're giving vibes back, and then 292 00:21:41.200 --> 00:21:44.720 I think you have to be very clear. Then at some point it has 293 00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:48.160 to transition to some kind of clarity about what it is that you're talking about. 294 00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:52.599 We're not inviting you back for scrabble, And I think also, like 295 00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:56.359 as you were saying that, I'm thinking, like it you do, there 296 00:21:56.480 --> 00:22:02.039 is a clarity here that there might not be in maybe one on one flirting. 297 00:22:02.200 --> 00:22:04.200 Hitting on scenes where it's like this is what we're trying to do, 298 00:22:04.839 --> 00:22:10.400 like yeah, are you trying to do this specific thing or not? So 299 00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:14.519 that that's kind of cool because then somebody can just be like, oh, 300 00:22:14.519 --> 00:22:18.920 okay, yes or no. And I think there's like a more ambiguity when 301 00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:21.960 it's this one I want because you're like are you are we And then we 302 00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:26.359 don't name it and we just want it to be spontaneous. I definitely had 303 00:22:26.359 --> 00:22:29.720 a I went on a date with a couple and it never went anywhere, 304 00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:33.119 and we talked on the date about like our sexual interests and some of that 305 00:22:33.160 --> 00:22:34.839 stuff. At the beginning of the date, I was interested, but as 306 00:22:34.880 --> 00:22:37.440 time went on and they described some of the dynamics they were looking for, 307 00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:41.279 it wasn't like dynamics I felt I could bring to the table. And then 308 00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:45.400 I wasn't interested in the end, and I could tell they just felt like 309 00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:48.480 they totally wasted their time. And I think that, you know, it's 310 00:22:48.920 --> 00:22:52.759 not that I can't empathize. I could totally understand being a couple being like, 311 00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:56.960 God, we've tried, we've tried for a year to find the right 312 00:22:56.000 --> 00:23:00.319 situation, and yeah, we thought this was it and now we're just pointed. 313 00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:03.119 But I do think you have to be really careful to enter at the 314 00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:06.799 same way you would enter any date. It's not a going on a date 315 00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:10.039 is not an agreement that it's going to end in any particular way. Mmm. 316 00:23:12.079 --> 00:23:15.640 So how do you work through feeling left out at one point or another 317 00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:19.079 during a threesome? And do you think that that is inevitable? I don't 318 00:23:19.079 --> 00:23:23.079 think that it's inevitable. I mean it sounds like from your threesome experience that 319 00:23:23.160 --> 00:23:26.720 it felt great all around. Definitely my first threesome, the one I was 320 00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:30.279 just talking about with my with an X and my best friend, there was 321 00:23:30.279 --> 00:23:34.039 like one point where like I think I was giving him head and then he 322 00:23:34.079 --> 00:23:38.680 was giving her head and I just remember being like like looking upwards and just 323 00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:44.400 being like, M Like I didn't feel left out because I was very much 324 00:23:44.440 --> 00:23:48.480 more, but I was like, oh man, that was like also my 325 00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:55.359 first experience, so that was my first experience with having sex with more than 326 00:23:55.400 --> 00:23:59.200 one person. I didn't necessarily feel left out, though. I think I 327 00:23:59.240 --> 00:24:03.200 was just like, Okay, this is touching something for me. And you 328 00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:07.920 know, I think that that picture that you talked about, like as is 329 00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:12.799 he going to like really enjoy her more than me and like to see like 330 00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:17.799 and I think interestingly enough, like I think the morning after I was like 331 00:24:18.039 --> 00:24:21.720 what the fuck? And then it quickly subsided. But I don't think it's 332 00:24:21.759 --> 00:24:27.160 inevitable to feel left out. I would ask what actions or dynamics you think 333 00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:30.480 would lead you to feel left out? And I think that this happens like 334 00:24:30.519 --> 00:24:36.279 when it's like penetration right, like if that is on the table, and 335 00:24:36.319 --> 00:24:40.319 then there's two people who are you know, for what like a threesome that 336 00:24:40.359 --> 00:24:45.319 I've had where there was like penis and vagina intercourse happening that I was not 337 00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:48.559 a part of, but I didn't feel left out because I was still like 338 00:24:48.839 --> 00:24:52.319 involved in it. I was still like making out. I was still like 339 00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:56.000 getting fingered or something like that. So I think that it's being curious about 340 00:24:56.039 --> 00:25:00.480 like what would make you feel left out because I think during some times there's 341 00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:07.640 going to be like a coupling maybe that happens, like maybe two members of 342 00:25:07.680 --> 00:25:11.920 the threesome are really feeling each other and into each other, and it can 343 00:25:11.960 --> 00:25:15.920 like Wax and Wayne, and so I think that it's a calling on what 344 00:25:15.960 --> 00:25:19.279 would bring that up for you and how to sit with that and like bring 345 00:25:19.319 --> 00:25:27.200 yourself in And there can be a competitive maybe nature to a threesome because it's 346 00:25:27.240 --> 00:25:30.519 just like all right, well I'm going to be the best one here. 347 00:25:30.920 --> 00:25:36.319 Um interestingly enough, for as competitive as I am, that you're so competitive 348 00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:44.160 so deeply may be just the best, I think. So just like that 349 00:25:44.200 --> 00:25:48.720 doesn't even cross my mind, So I don't feel like maybe I'm just my 350 00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:55.480 overinflated self esteem is like I would never be left out, So I love 351 00:25:55.599 --> 00:25:59.480 that about you. I mean, I think this is this is why talking 352 00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:03.160 about hopes, fears, and expectations upfront with everybody involved, if you can, 353 00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:07.079 if there's you know, if there's space for it, can be really 354 00:26:07.160 --> 00:26:10.279 helpful because you can. I mean, my partner Mal and I, you 355 00:26:10.319 --> 00:26:12.799 know, Mal recently talked about what it would be like to have a threesome. 356 00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:15.880 I think, you know, I think we're virgining on maybe ready for 357 00:26:17.000 --> 00:26:21.279 it in the near future, but it's really helpful to just say out loud, 358 00:26:21.400 --> 00:26:26.119 like, these are things that could happen that would really bring something up 359 00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:29.960 for me. And it's not that if they might happen. They might happen 360 00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:33.279 and I can regulate around that, we can process it later, but if 361 00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:36.640 we could just keep it in mind, that would be great. So I 362 00:26:36.680 --> 00:26:38.240 think you're allowed to put your into like it's not just about what do I 363 00:26:38.319 --> 00:26:41.440 want this to look like? It could also be about here are the things 364 00:26:41.480 --> 00:26:45.759 that might be activating for me. I think, of course, being careful 365 00:26:45.799 --> 00:26:51.079 again about couple's privilege. If all of your rules revolve around like you getting 366 00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:53.440 to do everything and the third, Yeah, you know, getting to do 367 00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:57.240 almost nothing, then that's something to pay attention to. I agree. I 368 00:26:57.279 --> 00:27:00.839 think that that's really important to be cautious of. I like, if you 369 00:27:02.559 --> 00:27:07.759 are a couple and you like bring it in somebody to really be conscious of 370 00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:12.720 their humanity and their experience, and so I think that that's a great way 371 00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:15.960 to do it. And there might be like this negotiation where like as the 372 00:27:17.039 --> 00:27:21.759 couple, you just kind of know that a particular something would bring up something 373 00:27:21.759 --> 00:27:25.279 for you and you just like have like a like sometimes like a glance and 374 00:27:25.359 --> 00:27:27.759 like a nod in the moment and just be like okay, like I see 375 00:27:27.799 --> 00:27:32.720 you, or just like a touch can be like acknowledging that this is happening 376 00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:36.880 for you, Right, let's switch gears or let's keep going or because you 377 00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:38.839 yeah, I don't know. I love that. I love that. A 378 00:27:38.839 --> 00:27:44.880 little hand squeeze, a little eye contact, yeah, be fucking one person 379 00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:48.039 making eye contact with another, all sorts of ways to yeah, stay connected. 380 00:27:48.319 --> 00:27:51.599 I love that. I mean. And of course there will be threesomes 381 00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:56.519 where the thing that somebody hopes for is to watch very true, very true, 382 00:27:56.720 --> 00:28:02.720 no assumptions made, very very true. How to stop feeling like a 383 00:28:02.839 --> 00:28:07.119 side piece during threesomes. This person says that they feel like they're just there 384 00:28:07.160 --> 00:28:11.079 to make it quote unquote hot, Yeah. I think reading this, I 385 00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:15.240 feel I feel bummed for this person, Like it's really sucks that people have 386 00:28:15.319 --> 00:28:18.920 repeatedly made you feel that way. And I don't know, like if you 387 00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:23.200 have a narrative for yourself around what it is about you that that is like 388 00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:26.319 causing this to happen, But there's nothing about you that's causing this to happen. 389 00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:30.079 It sounds like you're having some threesomes with people who either are engaging in 390 00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:36.759 a lot of unaware couple's privilege, or or who are objectifying you, or 391 00:28:36.799 --> 00:28:41.279 who aren't who aren't seeing your humanity, aren't doing any precre aftercare, I 392 00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:45.039 would say, you know, if I'm you, it's not I would not 393 00:28:45.079 --> 00:28:47.319 blame yourself. I would take a step back, though, and I would 394 00:28:47.319 --> 00:28:51.799 wonder what if what if all these experiences had in common, because whatever that 395 00:28:51.920 --> 00:28:53.960 is, it isn't working. This is this is not how you need to 396 00:28:55.000 --> 00:29:00.319 feel or deserve to feel after threesomes. And so I don't think this is 397 00:29:00.359 --> 00:29:03.839 an issue with you. I mean, that's my best guess, is I 398 00:29:03.880 --> 00:29:07.559 don't think. I don't think it's anything you're doing. What could contribute to 399 00:29:07.599 --> 00:29:12.839 you not feeling like a side piece is like having more care come from the 400 00:29:12.920 --> 00:29:18.720 other two participants, because feeling like an object or feeling like something that is 401 00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:22.839 just being used to as a means to an end, like and granted, 402 00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:26.680 for some people that can be a turn on. It can be a turn 403 00:29:26.720 --> 00:29:30.839 on to be like, yeah, like just I'm here to be used and 404 00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:33.720 like that really turns me on, But it sounds like for you that's not 405 00:29:33.759 --> 00:29:37.319 the case, Like it kind of just feels like you're being like a plaything. 406 00:29:37.519 --> 00:29:42.359 And I think that that sounds really hurtful and painful, and that you 407 00:29:42.400 --> 00:29:48.400 are not required to do anything that makes you feel uncomfortable. That doesn't mean 408 00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:51.680 that you're not fun, that doesn't mean that you're not here for a good 409 00:29:51.720 --> 00:29:56.160 time, but it just means that, like, you also deserve thoughtfulness, 410 00:29:56.200 --> 00:30:00.240 consideration, and care around who you're having sex with. That goes for no 411 00:30:00.279 --> 00:30:03.559 matter how many people are in the room. And I think this person also 412 00:30:03.640 --> 00:30:07.039 has me reflecting like what I think what I think is now obvious, which 413 00:30:07.079 --> 00:30:11.559 is threesomes aren't just about things being hot, right, this like isn't only 414 00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:14.440 about sex for everybody. For a lot of people, group sex can be 415 00:30:14.440 --> 00:30:19.599 a spiritual experience, can be an incredibly gender affirming experience. It could you 416 00:30:19.640 --> 00:30:22.559 know, having sex with multiple people might make you feel like multiple sides or 417 00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:26.039 parts of yourself are being tended to, can make you feel really whole. 418 00:30:26.599 --> 00:30:30.519 So I love that this person is also pointing out like like maybe maybe some 419 00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:36.599 people are cool with with being gore to be hot, yeah, and also 420 00:30:36.640 --> 00:30:40.799 like I'm looking for more than that, and that makes sense, yeah, 421 00:30:40.839 --> 00:30:45.519 And I think that that goes with like setting expectations of like, for example, 422 00:30:45.599 --> 00:30:48.240 maybe you want this to be a recurring thing. Maybe you don't want 423 00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:52.400 it to be like a one time thing. Maybe it's something that you point 424 00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:57.759 anticipate in with this couple or these other two folks more regularly. And I 425 00:30:57.799 --> 00:31:02.319 think that that is part of the conversation too, Like is this like we're 426 00:31:02.359 --> 00:31:06.240 just going to have like a version of a one night stand and like we'd 427 00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:10.160 never talk about it again and I don't hear from you or do we want 428 00:31:10.200 --> 00:31:12.680 to have this as part of our shared dynamic with the three of us, 429 00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:19.200 and how to bring that agreement in as well? How do you know, 430 00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:22.680 if your relationship is ready for a threesome, you can talk it to death. 431 00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:30.319 But is it that you just won't know until it happens. M Yeah, 432 00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:33.559 Oh no, I think that that. Yes, I think that this 433 00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:41.240 person has a good point of like talking versus like experience and being like I 434 00:31:41.319 --> 00:31:45.559 think that you can do all that you can and try to frontload and have 435 00:31:45.720 --> 00:31:49.359 negotiation and conversation. I don't think that there is like a point of readiness 436 00:31:51.400 --> 00:31:55.160 or like a standard like once you achieve this, or you then you're ready 437 00:31:55.200 --> 00:31:57.000 for like the final boss and like the video game or something like. I 438 00:31:57.000 --> 00:32:00.720 don't think so. I would not reckn doing what I did with my first 439 00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:06.599 threesome, which was just like being in a really bad place with my partner 440 00:32:06.799 --> 00:32:10.759 and having a threesome as an attempt to save it. I think also, 441 00:32:10.960 --> 00:32:15.839 you know, I think about the way that I was considering like my friend 442 00:32:15.880 --> 00:32:20.039 at that time, like to bring her into something kind of to try and 443 00:32:20.079 --> 00:32:22.759 save a relationship. Luckily, like to my knowledge, that's not how she 444 00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:24.880 felt and we were able to talk about it. You know. I think 445 00:32:24.920 --> 00:32:30.759 that it's important to just be acknowledging of like what you're hoping to get from 446 00:32:30.759 --> 00:32:35.279 it. Yeah, so I think that, like, your relationship can be 447 00:32:35.519 --> 00:32:38.759 solid as a rock, however you consider that and a threesome could shake things 448 00:32:38.839 --> 00:32:43.920 up. You have no idea, but I think that the more that you 449 00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:47.799 talk about it, the more that you're honest with yourself and with your partner, 450 00:32:47.960 --> 00:32:52.200 and the more that you can have honesty and reflection afterward. I think 451 00:32:52.240 --> 00:32:57.039 the better if you'll be But I don't think that there's like a standard that 452 00:32:57.079 --> 00:33:00.000 you have to reach. If like, we haven't fought in three weeks, 453 00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:01.400 so now we're ready four or threes, I'm like, I don't think that 454 00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:04.519 it really works like that. I think is just like, what are we 455 00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:08.119 hoping to get from this, and how can we look at the variables involved 456 00:33:08.119 --> 00:33:15.160 to get that outcome. Yeah, I think if I were sitting with a 457 00:33:15.160 --> 00:33:20.160 couple that's considering a threesome, I'd be really paying attention to their bodies during 458 00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:23.119 the conversation. Obviously, talking about something is exposing ourselves to the idea, 459 00:33:23.200 --> 00:33:27.160 which can bring about the same feeling and our bodies that doing it would. 460 00:33:27.640 --> 00:33:30.720 So if there's a lot of disregulation and conflict brought about by just talking about 461 00:33:30.759 --> 00:33:35.319 it, that's probably an indication that there'd be some conflict if it happens. 462 00:33:35.319 --> 00:33:37.559 That doesn't mean don't do it, but it means, you know, just 463 00:33:37.599 --> 00:33:39.960 be aware of it. I think too, you can visualize it and get 464 00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:44.359 a sense of what comes up in your body, just to imagine it right, 465 00:33:44.440 --> 00:33:47.000 and you can get a sense of if you're able to regulate through it, 466 00:33:47.240 --> 00:33:50.200 what comes up for you. Again, like, you don't have to 467 00:33:50.200 --> 00:33:52.960 be perfectly regulated to be ready for something. I don't think that's ever the 468 00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:57.160 case, but it's good to know if you visualize it and you do get 469 00:33:57.319 --> 00:34:01.559 disregulated, you have an opportunity there to practice what kind of aftercare helps you 470 00:34:01.599 --> 00:34:06.839 in that situation, and then bring that kind of aftercare into the reality of 471 00:34:06.839 --> 00:34:09.679 the situation. So good to talk about it. Practice aftercare in the conversation 472 00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:16.559 so that you're ready for aftercare. All right. Our last question says, 473 00:34:16.719 --> 00:34:22.400 can you give us some tips to manage STI anxieties for a couple considering going 474 00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:28.159 into a play party. Yeah. I am hesitating because I obviously can't speak 475 00:34:28.159 --> 00:34:30.960 to sex parties across the board. I know there are some sex parties where 476 00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:35.800 they do a really great job facilitating these kinds of conversations and helping people find 477 00:34:35.840 --> 00:34:38.400 formats and structures to check in with each other about that. That's amazing. 478 00:34:38.679 --> 00:34:42.480 I think some parties absolutely are not going to do that great of a job. 479 00:34:42.760 --> 00:34:45.639 So protection in any case is going to be your friend. Bring more 480 00:34:45.679 --> 00:34:49.880 condoms than you think you're going to need, particularly if penises or toys are 481 00:34:49.920 --> 00:34:52.599 involved. You want to be aware of where each toy, where each penis 482 00:34:52.639 --> 00:34:55.960 has been, and just switch condoms in between. It doesn't mean that you 483 00:34:57.039 --> 00:35:01.559 can't you can't use toys or you know, have penetrative sex with only one 484 00:35:01.599 --> 00:35:06.639 person. It just means, you know, keep track and change condoms. 485 00:35:06.840 --> 00:35:09.079 So that's one starting point. I think that that's great. You know, 486 00:35:09.119 --> 00:35:14.679 I'm here for all like the different barrier methods, and I think like when 487 00:35:14.719 --> 00:35:22.039 it comes to managing STI anxieties also acknowledging that it could happen, And maybe 488 00:35:22.039 --> 00:35:27.000 that makes people scared and nervous, But I think that when it comes to 489 00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:31.440 STIs, there's no such thing as just like perfectly like quote unquote safe sex. 490 00:35:31.519 --> 00:35:37.760 It can happen. All STIs are manageable, they're curable. Looking at 491 00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:43.400 your anxiety might involve looking at what sort of shame or stigma you hold around 492 00:35:43.559 --> 00:35:45.800 STIs because you might be like, that would be the worst possible outcome, 493 00:35:46.440 --> 00:35:52.519 right when worst things can happen, worst things can happen, Yeah, and 494 00:35:52.519 --> 00:35:57.360 and managing it and you know this is not to diminish like the importance of 495 00:35:57.400 --> 00:36:00.840 your health and like how you care for yourself and your but I think it's 496 00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:05.760 also to imagine that, like in any group situation, anything could happen. 497 00:36:05.800 --> 00:36:07.840 You could get a cold, you could get food poisoning, if you get 498 00:36:07.880 --> 00:36:13.440 the flu, you can get an sci like COVID, you could get COVID. 499 00:36:13.480 --> 00:36:16.760 Like, these things can happen. And so I think that, yeah, 500 00:36:16.840 --> 00:36:21.760 if going into a play party looking at what their kind of stipulations are, 501 00:36:21.880 --> 00:36:24.239 what they're testing processes are, Yeah, some are really rigorous, some 502 00:36:24.559 --> 00:36:30.599 not so much. You get to decide ultimately, And if you're feeling anxious 503 00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:35.960 in that moment of giving yourself permission to know that just because you've gone to 504 00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:37.599 a sex party, entered a sex party, have started to play at a 505 00:36:37.639 --> 00:36:40.880 sex party, doesn't mean that you have to be there for the rest of 506 00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:44.480 the night. Doesn't mean that you have to keep engaging with a bunch of 507 00:36:44.519 --> 00:36:50.719 different people. You get to determine your level of comfort and desire at any 508 00:36:50.760 --> 00:36:54.519 point during the party. So I think that knowing that just because you're there 509 00:36:54.559 --> 00:36:58.280 and you've agreed to be there does not mean that like it's a free for 510 00:36:58.360 --> 00:37:00.559 all, you still get to have your boundaries, and I think you should, 511 00:37:00.840 --> 00:37:02.760 right and if you if you have questions and you ask people when they 512 00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:06.840 were last tested in the response that you get or the vibe of the party 513 00:37:06.960 --> 00:37:09.760 is like we don't talk about that here, or you know, why are 514 00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:13.239 you having to bring why you're bringing that into it? Like that's a big 515 00:37:13.239 --> 00:37:16.880 red flag and just notice and yeah, walk away maybe in that situation. 516 00:37:23.320 --> 00:37:30.360 This week's safe Word is Linguini from Devin Love Apasta Moment. Safe Word is 517 00:37:30.360 --> 00:37:35.440 hosted by Casey Tanner and Kenny Lewis and is produced by coordinator Et Townsend. 518 00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:38.280 Our theme song is written and performed by Emma Jane and Tory Rainey. To 519 00:37:38.320 --> 00:37:42.440 support the show, please follow us on Spotify and take a moment right now 520 00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:45.480 to give us five stars. We also love ray reviews on Apple Podcasts or 521 00:37:45.519 --> 00:37:50.840 wherever you listen to podcasts. Every other week we put a question box out 522 00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:53.840 on Instagram, giving you the opportunity to ask for advice on the topic at 523 00:37:53.880 --> 00:37:58.960 hand. To submit long form questions in writing or in your own voice, 524 00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:02.519 go to the safe Word Pod or Queer Sex Therapy Instagram page and click on 525 00:38:02.559 --> 00:38:07.719 our link tree in the bio to write out longer questions. If anything today 526 00:38:07.719 --> 00:38:12.159 made you curious about seeking support, the Expansive Group has a great team of 527 00:38:12.199 --> 00:38:15.320 therapists and mentors to discuss challenges you might be facing. Go to the Expansivegroup 528 00:38:15.360 --> 00:38:19.480 dot com, submit a contact form and we'll help you get connected. For 529 00:38:19.679 --> 00:38:22.440 behind the scenes look at safe Word and podcasts updates, find us on Instagram 530 00:38:22.480 --> 00:38:25.840 at safe Word Pod. We'll be back in two weeks with a new episode 531 00:38:25.840 --> 00:38:27.519 of Safe Word