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Welcome to the UFO Think Tank,
Craigio with your host Alejandrol Rohan. Hi,

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this is Alejandro. Thank you to
robo Chick for my introduction. And

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uh yeah, like she says,
this is UFO Think Tank and I am

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Alejandro ROAs and I'm very happy to
be here with you today because you're cool,

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dude. I'm telling you, I'm
not kidding. You're a one cool

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dude. Doet that he's listening?
So cool that you are interested in people

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such as my guest this evening,
who is a very interesting I'm excited as

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usual to have Kathleen Martin on.
And what's so exciting is that Kathleen has

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done a study. She actually did
this with her friend Denise Stoner, and

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this study is well. Kathleen Martin, first, I guess to tell you

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is unique because her mother or her
aunt was Betty Hill of the famous Betty

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and Barney Hill abduction case in the
sixties. And this was the first real

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public story of people being abducted.
And it was a very credible one because

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these guys were separated. You know, it was a man and his wife

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and they were separated who told the
same story. They had similar recollections under

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hypnosis, which is interesting and also
lends credibility, So a very interesting case.

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Of course, we've had Kathleen on
to talk about that case and other

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things before, so we won't need
to get into all of those details.

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But what is especially exciting something that
she has done recently that I want to

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talk about is this study she did
with Denise Soner. And essentially, Kathleen

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Martin for many years has been a
social worker, so of course you need

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to be familiar with psychology and things
like that, and she and your social

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work, you know, you're kind
of figuring out you've got to follow studies

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in the latest in psychology to kind
of figure out why people do what they

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do. And so she applied her
background and social work Denise as a background

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in that area as well, to
do a study on abductees because she feels,

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you know, the abduction phenomenon is
real. What happened to Bettian Barney

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Hill was real, and she wanted
to find out the commonalities and that's what

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this study was called, the Commonality
among Abduction Experiencers study. Very interesting finding.

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So essentially she pulled a bunch of
people that were abductees. She had

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some controls people who were not abductees. We'll talk about how she decided if

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someone was really an abductee or not, and what an abductee is, and

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that kind of thing we'll talk to
her about because you know, of course,

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some of you might be thinking,
I don't know if I believe that

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people are being abducted by aliens.
Of course many of you are thinking,

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I know that's happening. So you'll
be able to hear at least, because

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I think, even if you don't
believe in the phenomena, just these social

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aspects of how are these people that
say this is happening to them similar than

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people who are not, and what
are the tendencies. Now, she did

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a different thing than like what doctor
Leo Sprinkle did in the past. He

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actually did a similar study and he
found which was one of his main goals

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that and I think we had someone
else, actually another professor on recently and

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they had found that people who claim
to be abductees were not more prone to

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fantasy than the normal general public.
But yet this is a really interesting study

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and I love this sort of thing
because this is what people need to be

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doing. You know, even I
won't mean names but there's a lot of

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researchers out there who have been collecting
town data, and I think this is

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a great example of what you need
to do with that data is actually put

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it together and do some studies,
run some correlations to find out, you

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know, what's going on here,
what's going on? What's going on?

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The la la la. Sorry,
I won't sing to you any further,

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but this is a great interview and
you're gonna love it. People, I'm

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telling you, this is good stuff. So we'll talk to Kathleen in just

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a minute. However, of course, before we get her on the line,

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we have UFO news UFOs in the
News with Alandro Ross, so let's

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check this out. Of course,
this is a collection of stories from mainstream

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media covering the UFO topic. People
are like, what are you talking about?

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Media don't care about UFOs, and
a lot of people feel that way,

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even people who are interested in this
field. But that's just not the

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case, because I prove you wrong
every week in that I have a host

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of UFO stories from the public from
the mainstream media that I cover every week.

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And let's talk about some of those
stories. The first being from October

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thirty, first Halloween scary. This
is from the Sun News and it looks

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like it was re ran in the
Herald online dot com serving Yorchester and Lancaster

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counties of South Carolina. And this
is about some sightings at Myrtle Beach.

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So I guess on September thirteenth,
there were a lot of sightings of some

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orange lights over the ocean and people
thought this was weird. They were turning

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on, they were turning off.
There was one and there were several and

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it was freaking people out. So
somebody posted a video on YouTube about this.

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They also reported this to the UFO, the National UFO Reporting Center,

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Newfork in other words, ran by
Peter Davenport of Seattle, Washington, and

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he says they don't seem to be
flares because they don't act like that.

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So there were a lot of sightings. They asked the military, well what

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do you think in the military said, well, they were flares, so

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yeah. The Coastguard actually said,
well, I think they were probably flares

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because we do have boats out there
that are sending up flares. However,

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he described some of these flares.
Some of them can be I've seen up

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to fifteen nautical miles away and be
in the air for about one hundred and

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twenty seconds. Some of them last
less than that. But really, actually

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the reports don't necessarily seem at least
some of the people said they felt that

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the lights were in the sky for
much longer than that. So many of

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those who reported these sightings don't believe
what they saw to be flares. So

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very interesting. They also interviewed a
man named Jim Meath who has not seen

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the UFO. However, he is
a guy who lives in North Carolina who

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holds a UFO workshop, so he's
into the topic, and he says,

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you know what, I'm not a
I haven't seen anything, but I've studied

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enough where there's so much interesting material
out there, so just people in the

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military talking about UFOs that I think
there could be something going on here.

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He talks about, you know how, there's got to be life out there,

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And another witness had an interesting quote. He says, I believe in

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God to start with. I just
can't see us being created and nothing else

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out there in this big old universe. A lot of people feel similarly.

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So remember you can see these stories
if you go to ufodailynews dot com and

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click on the UFO newsfeed because those
are the stories that I tweet on a

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regular basis. You can also,
of course go and subscribe to the UFO

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Daily News Twitter feed. Speaking of
one of the dudes I tweet quite a

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bit, this is of course lis
Biegle, who writes for the Huffington Post,

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and uh we because we're always talking
back and forth and sharing information,

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came across the story. Actually it
was Ruben Uriarte, who is the mof

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on now national International director well Laison, so he works with other countries,

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and he got this from Mexico.
That was the first time I saw it.

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And this is a video of a
weird light that looks kind of like

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a cigar shaped light diving into a
volcano in Mexico. And this is a

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video that's on Mexican News. In
fact, on YouTube and on Lee's story

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you can see the clip of the
YouTube clip of the Mexican News story.

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And he also asked a couple of
people. He asked Factor Faked Ben Hansen

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and Moufon's video analyst Mark d' antonio
what they thought about the video, and

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both of them had actually felt,
which some other people had speculated, that

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it's actually a meteorite being caught on
the video that is far behind the volcano.

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It just looks like it's going in, but it's actually falling somewhere paths

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the volcano, you know. So
interesting, but it's an interesting video.

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Of course, not everybody agrees,
but nobody. Not everybody agrees on any

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video. But yeah, they kind
of felt that it could be a meteorite

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behind the object. So you'll have
to check out this video. And remember

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you can go. This one's on
Huffington Post. One of the least Spiegel

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stories. More UFOs, this time
in El Cahoone, California, and these

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were there's a picture of these interesting
lights in a row, and you know

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what, I look at it and
I'm like, you know what looks like

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those LED strips, because it's like
it's a line of bright light, like

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the LED strips that you put under
your cabinets, you know, to shine

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light on your your kitchen surfaces so
you can make dinner or like, you

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know, I veggie stuff, so
I make like, you know, my

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regular dinners kind of egg salad actually
is a big one or mostly actually it's

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it's cereal, so you can have
your lights to see your cereal and it

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turns out that this is what this
was. It was a gentleman who was

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kind of playing around and he actually
had spent three hundred dollars on balloons,

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heliums and lights and he floated them
five thousand feet into the air. He

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put these lights on a fishing line
and he called it a TFO because his

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name was Todd, so kind of
cute. But yeah, that's what he

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did, and that's what So if
you were in El Cajone, California,

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and it looks like this was,
well, the story they don't say exactly

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when this was. The story was
on the first, but I'll bet this

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happened the night before on Halloween that
he was pulling this stun. But I

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gotta admit, come on, it
is kind of fun. That would have

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been fun to do. But these
it's Halloween for goodness sake. You want

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to do lots of fun crazy stuff
and then run around the run in circles

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on the street, screaming with your
arms in the air. You'll boi bo

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You know that'd be fun. That's
something I'd like to do, only on

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Halloween. Them other mistaken identities.
Perhaps I think it was last week I

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told you guys about this interesting video
from Kentucky of this tubular type UFO.

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It looked the witness described it as
two fluorescent tubes floating next to each other.

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Very strange video. This guy was
a amateur astronomer. Well somebody and

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it just looks like some neighbor or
somebody in town said that was my toy.

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But some people are putting into question
whether or not that's true, because

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I guess there are out there and
you can look these up, and actually

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I think I saw them in the
UK. Let's see what they're named.

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He doesn't have the name on here. Some kind of airship it's called.

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But essentially, really what it is
is like this long plastic bag and it

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is black and you can fill it
with helium where you can. It's actually

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you fill it with air. Oh
okay, I remember, because I went

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to the site where you can buy
them. You run, you know,

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you open this thing up, you
run, so it fills with air and

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you tie it up and then you
put a string on it. And it

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comes with a string and you just
kind of let it float. And because

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it's black, it's solar powered.
The heat from that's generated heats up the

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air inside of this thing, so
it floats because hot air rises, it's

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less dense some science. So that's
what this thing is. And so some

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people are like, okay, well
it is long cylindrical tubular balloon thing that

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you float up. But they're black. They're like a black film that is

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not see through. And in the
video this thing looks see through and or

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completely white. Could it be the
reflection? Could it be two of them

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side by side? Is that what
made this video? I don't know.

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I don't know. When I posted
the story saying that you know, this

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guy said it was this his little
airship toy thing, people are like,

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mm, I don't think so,
dude, And their argument was that you

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know, it didn't. It wasn't
a black thing that a videotaped up in

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the sky. And even if it
was reflecting, it was more than just

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one long tube. It looked like
a couple of them next to each other,

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and it looked like some kind of
It looks strange, and the astronomer

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estimated it was thirty thousand feet in
the air. Some wo'ld be wrong.

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All I can say is like I
said before, and unfortunately, what we

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can have to come down to many
times is go take a look for yourself

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and see what you think. Toy
or not a toy, that is a

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question. I thought this was kind
of fun Roswell, although it's kind of

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weird because of course, you know, everybody does these halloween things, these

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spooky Halloween things, and so this
was a story about a website called trip

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Advisor, which made a list of
the top ten spookiest cities in the United

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States. Woo, I can't think
of what the spookiest city I've been to

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is. Hmmm, that's a tough
one. But they say Roswell. Now,

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I've been to Roswell and it's not
too spooky, but of course they

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have pictures of aliens, and their
point is Roswell is spooky because that's where

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aliens landed, and aliens are probably
there, and if you go to Roswell,

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they'll come and they'll chase you and
and slime you and be really creepy.

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And so that's why it's scary,
is what they say. So yeah,

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Roswell made it to top ten lists
of spooky places. The next story

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is an interesting one that you've seen
around and this is more of an astrobiological

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type of thing, and this is
alien life. This is something that's as

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they would say in the UK science
boffins that they call them boffins. It

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reminds me of a Hobbit, the
Boffin Hobbit family or something. But no,

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those are scientists, according to English
people out there, I guess.

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But the boffins are saying that some
science boffin that alien life requires an asteroid

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belt like ours, so that the
the asteroid belt we have in our solar

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system is very rare, they say, and it's probably why Earth has life,

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because it's been able to gently sprinkle
asteroids with water and elements that are

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important for life onto the planet Earth, as opposed to larger objects slamming into

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the planet causing massive explosions and not
being very constructive, not being very helpful.

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But these nice little asteroids falling onto
the planet here and there are seeding

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water, oh, in just a
gentle little way, and that that creates

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life. I guess. Of course, you never know with this kind of

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stuff, but yeah, I kind
of made a story around that maybe you

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need an asteroid boilt belt in order
to have life in your solar system.

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So any of you out there in
other solar systems who are like, you

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know, why we have an abundance
of life in our solar system. It

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could be that you don't have an
asteroid belt, so you'll want to get

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one of those and everything will be
good. After that. UFO news from

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India and we don't hear a lot
about this. Of course, we've had

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others on We've talked about official kind
of UFO investigations in other countries, but

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who knew India. They're these soldiers, the police and guys have been investigating

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UFOs so on the Indo Tibetan border
in a town called Ladoc. I'm sure

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I'm saying that wrong, but that's
what I think it is, how you

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say it, Ladoc region. Since
August to October, they've been seeing UFOs

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a lot in this area and some
of the police have actually taken pictures of

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these UFOs and in fact, according
to India Today, this article is actually

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in the Daily Bascar, but they
say India Today has also covered the story

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that the army has photographed the pictures
and they say that these pictures don't appear

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to be drones or low earth orbiting
satellites. So they then took these pictures

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to some astronomers, in particular the
Indian Astronomical Observatory at Hanlei. And these

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guys looked at them, you know, and what astronomers usually say, Oh,

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you're looking at venus. No,
not these guys. These guys said,

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well, I don't think that is
a celestial object. In other words,

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that's not a meteorite or a planet
or a star, so we don't

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know what that is. Then they
took it to a few other There are

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some intelligence officers who said, well, I think this is China messing with

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us. They're thinking that these are
maybe some kind of Chinese device. They

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haven said it could be a crude
psychological operation on China's part, or sophisticated

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probes attempting to ascertain India's defenses in
the Ladak. But yeah, some UFOs

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being seen, and I guess this
is a very kind of treacherous and sparsely

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populated area where there aren't a lot
of people, but that some strangeness in

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UFOs are reported in this area quite
often. How they even the army even

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took a mobile ground radar to the
mountaintop near so that the next time they

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saw a craft try to catch it
on radar. Or one of these objects.

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And when they did see the objects, they could see them, but

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they did not catch them on radar. So is this a new hot spot?

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What's going down here in the Indo
Tibetan border? Very interesting, I

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think, very interesting. Speaking of
satellites, one of the biggest satellites in

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the sky are the biggest objects in
the sky is a space station. You

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may have seen the space station coasting
over your area of the planet. And

238
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because this is an international we have
international listeners. How cool is that on

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the show? And so your part
of the planet is very different from mine,

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But I hope you're enjoying your part
of the planet as much as I

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enjoy my part of the planet.
And I particularly enjoy when the Space Shuttle

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flies over and I've seen it a
couple times and it's just so cool because

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it's so bright and big and cruising
over and just to think, oh,

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that's space station I met. You
know, there's people up there and they're

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kind of hanging out and you know, who, I think about, what

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are they doing in Are they grooving
out to some p funk up there on

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the space station? And you know, I don't know what you think about,

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but it's fun to see the space
station, and if you haven't seen

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it, then this is tragic and
you are not fulfilling your duty as a

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human being because you're supposed to be
just captivated in awe by our incredible technology.

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That's what I say. But anyway, what NASA has done is created

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this new site where you can get
an email or a text when the space

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station is going to be near your
area. So a couple hours before it

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comes, you'll get a text.
You know, Hi, this is a

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00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:49.079
space station. I'll be in your
neighborhood in two hours. Be sure to

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look for me TA top for now
TTFN. You know that's what you do

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and you text the acronyms and stuff. Actually I don't know if that's what

258
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it'll say. I did sign up
for the text, but I haven't gotten

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a text from the space station yet
because it hasn't been around my neighborhood yet.

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But I am so excited for when
I get that text, because I'm

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going to run outside and look,
and then I'm going to text back the

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space station and say OMG, I
see you, and that'll be a lot

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of fun. So I would recommend
yeah again, you can go to ufodailynews

264
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dot com and go to the newsfeed
and look for this story. Get email

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texts when space station is near.
Discovery News is the name of the story,

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or you could probably go to NASA
google this thing and find it.

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But it's a lot of fun.
I'm excited to hear from the space station.

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Ooh, this next story made some
people mad. Ooo, my friends

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got mad when they read this one. Why because it says UFO enthusiasts admit

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the truth may not be out there
at or all. And this is written

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by the Telegraph. This is a
shifty little UK newspaper. While they're not

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little, they're big, I'll tell
you what. But yeah, they have

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been quite contentious when it comes to
the UFO phenomena. And essentially it is

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kind of silly because so they talk
to this group that investigates UFOs in England

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called ASAP, and these guys the
Association for the Scientific Study of Anomalous Phenomenon

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00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:37.200
and they're like, you know what, we've been looking for UFOs for a

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decade. We're not getting many reports, and even the reports we get don't

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really give us anything scientific to investigate. So I think we're going to have

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a conference we're going to talk about
this, but I think we're closing shop

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and we're going to tell our other
UFO buddies. Let's kind of call this

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a day and then wrap this whole
thing up because there's nothing going on.

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Fine, they have their opinions,
and the writer kind of does go on

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to say, oh, yeah,
there hasn't been anything going on for a

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00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:10.160
long time, la la low,
you got to shut it down. They

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00:26:10.200 --> 00:26:14.200
did have Nick Bope at the end
say hey, wait a minute, Actually

286
00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:18.519
there is a lot of quality information
out there that's being overlooked. So that's

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00:26:18.599 --> 00:26:23.319
kind of cool and essentially saying,
don't you know, throw the baby out

288
00:26:23.319 --> 00:26:27.079
with the bathwater. Just because there's
some bad stuff doesn't mean it's all bad

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data, which of course many people
fill. And this of course got my

290
00:26:32.039 --> 00:26:34.480
buddies all upset and they're emailing,
well, these guys are a bunch of

291
00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:38.960
jerks, man. So but the
point is that that isn't true that in

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00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:42.440
fact, at least when it comes
to if you ask Peter Davenport of Newfork,

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00:26:42.440 --> 00:26:47.839
who I asked before, I know
he's gotten more UFO sightings in the

294
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:52.839
recent past, so has moved on, you know, gotten a lot of

295
00:26:52.960 --> 00:26:59.039
UFO sightings. It's you know,
hundreds a month, so certainly not true

296
00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:06.160
that there is a decrease in the
sightings. And this Telegraph reporter named Jasper

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00:27:06.440 --> 00:27:11.440
Coping could have gone to some of
the big reporting centers and ask them if

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that was indeed the case, but
he decided not to. He didn't do

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00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:19.759
his journalistic duty, which many of
these reporters do not do when they're covering

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00:27:19.759 --> 00:27:26.680
the stomach Bad Jasper, but you
know, hopefully he'll do that next time.

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00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:32.759
And his title was just a little
overflowing UFO enthusiasts admit the truce may

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00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:37.839
not be out there. That's kind
of overdoing it, buddy, but I

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00:27:37.960 --> 00:27:40.720
can't. You know, Hey,
these guys have their opinion. They're closing

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00:27:40.759 --> 00:27:42.960
shop. I think that's interesting news
because they don't feel they found anything.

305
00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:49.759
That's their right. Finally, this
kind of falls in line with the last

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00:27:49.799 --> 00:27:56.400
story, is that super fast space
travel would kill you in minutes shorting,

307
00:27:56.400 --> 00:28:03.880
according to this side Jamie Clemleife so
more boffins. This was on Getzmodo actually

308
00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:07.240
saying that you know, traveling that
fast is not good for your health.

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00:28:07.359 --> 00:28:15.759
If you do so, you will
die And okay, but of course he

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00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:18.559
is saying that, you know,
in order to travel really fast, we'd

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00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:22.200
have to go near the speed of
light, because we can't go the speed

312
00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:26.039
a light. If we did,
we'd go back in time, time swarps

313
00:28:26.079 --> 00:28:33.519
and all this stuff. But of
course some people argue that perhaps there is

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00:28:33.279 --> 00:28:40.759
a technology that is much different that
will allow us to travel great distances in

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00:28:40.839 --> 00:28:45.799
short amount of times and we won't
die, and that would be preferable than

316
00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:48.880
the type that kills you. I
think. So there's a UFO news for

317
00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:53.559
the week. But now let's get
Kathleen on the phone because she has a

318
00:28:53.640 --> 00:29:00.799
lot of interesting things to say.
Hello, Kathleen, Hello, Alejandro.

319
00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:06.480
It's nice to be back with you. So we were meant talking a little

320
00:29:06.519 --> 00:29:11.599
bit before. But it sounds like
the hurricane luckily didn't hit you too hard.

321
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So you didn't you're in Florida.
Yeah, so you were able to

322
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:19.920
stay dried. Yeah, bad Gloria
had just a little bit of wind.

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There were a few white caps on
my little lake, but it wasn't bad

324
00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:27.240
at all. Yeah, I think. Goodness, Because of course others have

325
00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:32.119
not had it so well, No, they certainly have not. My friends

326
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in the Northeast have been hard hit
by this m And you do a lot

327
00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:41.599
of traveling, right, Were you
planning on any trips to the Northeast?

328
00:29:41.640 --> 00:29:48.759
And I just actually returned home from
the Northeast. I do do a lot

329
00:29:48.799 --> 00:29:55.880
of traveling. I spent three months
up there over the summer and I'm back

330
00:29:55.920 --> 00:29:59.680
home. In fact, we did
have to cancel a trip that I was

331
00:29:59.720 --> 00:30:03.200
going to to be going on this
weekend till the Northeast come to think of

332
00:30:03.240 --> 00:30:10.200
it, but it's having to be
postponed for a couple of weeks, all

333
00:30:10.319 --> 00:30:12.039
right. So I'm really excited.
And there's a lot to this, so

334
00:30:12.039 --> 00:30:15.200
I'm sure we're going to have a
lot to talk about. Is this abduction

335
00:30:15.279 --> 00:30:22.640
study you did. And for anybody
who doesn't remember you, know you your

336
00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:27.599
aunt was Betty Hill. And of
course, so you've had this big part

337
00:30:27.599 --> 00:30:32.920
of your life abductions and everything.
With the popularity of her story and a

338
00:30:32.920 --> 00:30:36.519
lot of people, I guess don't
know that even though she had that event

339
00:30:37.640 --> 00:30:42.000
with Barney Hill, that the kind
of strangeness continued throughout her life. Is

340
00:30:42.039 --> 00:30:49.240
that correct? That is correct.
There were many UFO sidings, close encounters,

341
00:30:49.319 --> 00:30:56.440
and I think from reading her files, there were continuing abductions as well,

342
00:30:56.839 --> 00:31:03.759
but she never wanted to vlieve that
that was true. So now you've

343
00:31:03.799 --> 00:31:08.000
got this study and we can talk
about the commonalities. And I don't know

344
00:31:08.039 --> 00:31:11.960
that there's another study that has been
done like this, because of course there's

345
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:17.400
a lot of anecdotal information you can
talk to which I've had on you know,

346
00:31:17.480 --> 00:31:22.079
like a lot of the therapists who
who work with abductees, and there's

347
00:31:22.119 --> 00:31:26.920
some kind of commonalities you can gather, but of course there's nothing as important

348
00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:32.839
as an actual study. The only
other one I think can think of is

349
00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:37.720
doctor Leo Sprinkle. He had done
one quite some time ago. So Eddy

350
00:31:37.799 --> 00:31:45.400
Bullard has done some as well,
but I'm not aware of anyone who has

351
00:31:45.759 --> 00:31:51.839
specifically done what Denise and I did
on this study. So how did you

352
00:31:51.880 --> 00:31:53.599
hook up? What Denise will start
from the beginning, I guess, And

353
00:31:55.640 --> 00:32:00.799
what gave you the idea? How
did this all begin? When I moved

354
00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:07.599
to Florida three years ago, I
decided to become actively involved in moufon Florida,

355
00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:15.559
and Denise was a state Section director
and that Florida's chief investigator. Now

356
00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:21.400
she was holding meetings, and so
I just decided to go to one of

357
00:32:21.440 --> 00:32:28.160
her meetings and I replied to an
invitation, and that's when I met her

358
00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:32.279
for the first time, and I
continued to go to her meetings. She

359
00:32:32.519 --> 00:32:38.359
has a study group for abduction experiences
as well, and I've been there helping

360
00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:45.359
her out at all of those meetings. So we just formed a friendship because

361
00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:53.119
of our mutual interests. She's really
very bright, very knowledgeable about this field,

362
00:32:53.279 --> 00:32:58.519
and I have a great deal of
respect for her work. She is

363
00:32:58.599 --> 00:33:06.720
now Florida's Assistant director of Abduction Studies, and she has a background, I

364
00:33:06.759 --> 00:33:09.880
guess in psychology, which I'm sure
helped you with planning how to put this

365
00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:15.559
study together. Yes, she had
worked for the government, she had taken

366
00:33:15.640 --> 00:33:20.200
some courses in psychology. She does
not have a degree in psychology. I'm

367
00:33:20.240 --> 00:33:27.279
actually the one with the background in
sociology and psychology. I took my degree

368
00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:34.119
in social work to make myself employable, but my real interest was in social

369
00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:40.960
research and psychology. Okay, So
then you went about what was I guess

370
00:33:42.119 --> 00:33:47.480
the plan for your study. Were
you looking for anything in particular or just

371
00:33:47.559 --> 00:33:55.799
kind of trying to look at general
overall experiences that these people were having to

372
00:33:55.839 --> 00:34:01.200
look for commonalities. Well, there
were certain certain things that stood out in

373
00:34:01.359 --> 00:34:10.159
our minds, and so we wanted
to determine the percentage of experiencers who have

374
00:34:10.440 --> 00:34:19.719
had those specific things occur in their
lives. We also wanted to put in

375
00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:27.679
some questions that we thought probably wouldn't
apply to experiencers, just as a filler.

376
00:34:29.039 --> 00:34:34.000
And also, we of course had
a control group, so we had

377
00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:40.679
questions for the control group as well. When it comes to the questions that

378
00:34:42.559 --> 00:34:46.760
you thought would not pertain to their
experiences, is there a specific purpose to

379
00:34:46.760 --> 00:34:52.320
adding those type of questions, Yes, there was. We just wanted to

380
00:34:52.360 --> 00:35:04.760
make sure that people everyone would answer
honestly and not think that if they responded

381
00:35:04.840 --> 00:35:08.480
with a positive or in the affirmative
to each question, it would mean that

382
00:35:08.559 --> 00:35:14.239
they were an abduction experiencer. So
we're sort of trying to weed people out

383
00:35:14.280 --> 00:35:20.559
here as well, and we had
some really amazing results, because boy,

384
00:35:20.639 --> 00:35:25.679
it appears that everyone who took part
in this study was answering very honestly.

385
00:35:28.199 --> 00:35:34.199
Now you looked for it looks like
fifty full questionnaires to be filled out by

386
00:35:34.280 --> 00:35:38.440
experiencers to find those experiencers. Did
you look for people who kind of had

387
00:35:40.639 --> 00:35:45.199
who felt themselves to be experiencers or
did you look for a therapists to kind

388
00:35:45.239 --> 00:35:50.880
of guide you? How did I
did books for therapists. What we did

389
00:35:51.559 --> 00:36:02.519
is I was looking for self identified
abduction experiencers, but also many experiencers who

390
00:36:02.719 --> 00:36:09.119
had had their case investigated and who
met the criteria for having had an abduction

391
00:36:09.639 --> 00:36:15.960
took part in the study. So
I was really delighted in that, and

392
00:36:15.599 --> 00:36:22.440
we started out. I wrote an
article for the Muffon Journal attempting to solicit

393
00:36:22.719 --> 00:36:29.039
experiencers. I do radio shows on
a fairly regular basis, and so I

394
00:36:29.079 --> 00:36:34.000
always mentioned that on the radio show
and asked people to go to my website

395
00:36:34.039 --> 00:36:42.559
to fill out the questionnaire, and
also we posted it. Denise did some

396
00:36:42.679 --> 00:36:50.360
and I did some as well on
various UFO and abduction related websites and blogs.

397
00:36:50.800 --> 00:36:53.239
So we tried to get as many
people as we could. And then

398
00:36:53.400 --> 00:37:00.000
I traveled to speak quite frequently,
so I always had questionnaires on my tape

399
00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:05.719
and asked anyone who might be interested
in taking one and filling it out.

400
00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:09.440
Now, and I remember last time
you were on, we had talked about

401
00:37:09.480 --> 00:37:15.159
that too and sent people to fill
out the questionnaires. So it sounds like

402
00:37:15.199 --> 00:37:17.519
this was a lot of work,
then getting the questionnaires, but also qualifying

403
00:37:17.599 --> 00:37:22.360
these people. Oh. Absolutely,
it was a lot of work. It

404
00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:28.199
took a year. This was a
year long project, but I think that

405
00:37:28.280 --> 00:37:32.440
it was well worth the efforts.
Something else that we did is we guaranteed

406
00:37:32.639 --> 00:37:39.960
anonymity for everyone, So if anyone
sent me a form with identifying information,

407
00:37:40.119 --> 00:37:46.639
I immediately blacked it out as soon
as I printed forms. Before I printed

408
00:37:46.639 --> 00:37:54.159
the forms that I received via email, I removed identifying information because I didn't

409
00:37:54.159 --> 00:38:00.880
want to take a chance that anyone's
identity would ever be revealed. Right.

410
00:38:00.920 --> 00:38:04.840
And then another thing I don't think, I'm not sure, I don't think

411
00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:07.559
we mentioned this yet, is that
you did have a control group too.

412
00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:12.599
You had twenty five non abduction experiencers
that you had fill out your questionnaire.

413
00:38:13.400 --> 00:38:20.079
Yes, absolutely, and I did
that because I wanted to make sure that

414
00:38:20.559 --> 00:38:28.239
the abduction commonalities among abduction experiencers were
not common in the general population. So

415
00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:32.840
I had to have the control group
for that reason, I guess. Moving

416
00:38:32.880 --> 00:38:37.360
on to the demographics, I'm kind
of just going through your sety part by

417
00:38:37.400 --> 00:38:44.760
part. It says you found twice
as many women as men that completed the

418
00:38:44.840 --> 00:38:50.159
questionnaire. What did that tell you, Well, that was very interesting.

419
00:38:50.920 --> 00:38:58.719
Sixty four percent of the people who
completed the questionnaire were women, and so

420
00:38:59.159 --> 00:39:07.639
then I had to evaluate this,
were there more women abduction experiencers? And

421
00:39:07.599 --> 00:39:16.400
general knowledge is that yes, there
are. I also knew that men statistically

422
00:39:16.599 --> 00:39:22.840
less likely to fill out questionnaires than
women, so I had to evaluate whether

423
00:39:22.920 --> 00:39:29.119
or not that might come into play
here. But fortunately I had the control

424
00:39:29.199 --> 00:39:36.079
group, and sixty four percent of
the men who complete, who were non

425
00:39:36.199 --> 00:39:43.880
abduction experiencers, completed the questionnaire,
so there was a just the opposite as

426
00:39:44.199 --> 00:39:49.639
with experiencers. Oh that's kind of
strange. Huh, yes, it was.

427
00:39:49.079 --> 00:39:52.719
It was really interesting that it ended
up being that way. Yeah,

428
00:39:52.719 --> 00:39:57.119
because one thing when you were talking
about that, I was thinking of maybe

429
00:39:57.159 --> 00:40:00.559
these women, because you were women, had a better rapport and that's why

430
00:40:00.599 --> 00:40:06.320
they were more likely to fill out
the questionnaire. However, using the control

431
00:40:06.400 --> 00:40:09.800
that doesn't necessarily play out. No, it did not. There were far

432
00:40:09.880 --> 00:40:16.440
more men than women, So you
think that this may just be another indicator

433
00:40:16.519 --> 00:40:22.760
that women experienced abductions more than men. It seems it looks that way.

434
00:40:24.119 --> 00:40:30.760
That's pretty interesting. So and then
you went on to look at trends among

435
00:40:31.599 --> 00:40:37.239
age groups and what did you find
there? Among age groups? I found

436
00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:45.360
that the fifty to sixty year old
group, those people who were born in

437
00:40:45.400 --> 00:40:52.039
the nineteen fifties, responded at a
much higher rate than any other group.

438
00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:59.519
They are forty four percent on this
survey, and it was only twenty percent

439
00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:06.039
control group. So that was very
interesting as well. And what Denisan I

440
00:41:06.199 --> 00:41:10.880
have found recently is that many many
of the people who are coming forward and

441
00:41:10.960 --> 00:41:17.760
contacting us are in that age range. Now, another interesting thing is that

442
00:41:19.119 --> 00:41:22.719
many of these people feel that they
were taken as children. So that would

443
00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:30.880
mean that they were taken probably in
the mid to late nineteen fifties going into

444
00:41:30.920 --> 00:41:40.840
the nineteen sixties. And so we
know that the first publicized UFO abduction was

445
00:41:40.840 --> 00:41:47.039
my aunt and uncle's case in nineteen
sixty one, and then we had the

446
00:41:47.199 --> 00:41:53.199
Antonio Vfboa's case from Brazil, and
I believe that was nineteen fifty seven,

447
00:41:53.760 --> 00:42:01.679
so sort of when some adults were
being taken in those years, it seems

448
00:42:01.719 --> 00:42:07.800
that a lot of children were being
taken as well. See, and that

449
00:42:07.920 --> 00:42:13.320
to me makes a lot of sense. And that's really interesting because I've always

450
00:42:13.360 --> 00:42:17.800
felt as I got involved with investigating
what in like the late nineties, you

451
00:42:17.840 --> 00:42:22.039
know, when I joined Muffon and
I used to talk to abductees or and

452
00:42:22.079 --> 00:42:25.239
I was skeptical of the whole thing
at first. I still don't know what

453
00:42:25.280 --> 00:42:29.159
to make of it. But I
was able to talk with a lot of

454
00:42:29.159 --> 00:42:32.679
people that had some really interesting cases. But it seemed to die down.

455
00:42:32.760 --> 00:42:37.599
And looking at the research, it
does seem like there was a period.

456
00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:42.719
There was a peak starting, like
you said, in the fifties and sixties

457
00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:46.239
and kind of ended in the early
two thousands. It kind of seems that

458
00:42:46.400 --> 00:42:53.039
do you feel that way? Did
your study maybe demonstrate that? Absolutely?

459
00:42:53.360 --> 00:43:00.519
And these people in their fifties and
sixties and even some going from their sixties

460
00:43:00.559 --> 00:43:09.599
to seventies are reporting ongoing abduction experiences, but far, far fewer people are

461
00:43:09.679 --> 00:43:15.559
contacting us to the young people to
say that they are currently being visited.

462
00:43:16.480 --> 00:43:21.039
It's really interesting, I think too. I think that's really important. That's

463
00:43:21.079 --> 00:43:24.519
why these studies are really important,
because looking at the numbers, you can

464
00:43:24.679 --> 00:43:30.559
possibly then at least start to paint
a picture of that perhaps if this was

465
00:43:30.599 --> 00:43:36.400
some sort of program that it began
in the fifties and kind of was at

466
00:43:36.440 --> 00:43:42.159
its peak then, and it's kind
of then deteriorated that this was You got

467
00:43:42.159 --> 00:43:46.360
a picture that maybe this whatever program
happened, had a lifespan that is ending.

468
00:43:47.519 --> 00:43:52.639
It seems that perhaps it is winding
down. And that's really I think

469
00:43:52.679 --> 00:44:00.480
that's really interesting. I'm not I
can't guarantee it, but it's certainly the

470
00:44:00.519 --> 00:44:05.119
statistics make it appear that way.
Well, hopefully that'll give some people some

471
00:44:05.199 --> 00:44:09.920
peace of mind mm hmm, because
I know, like a lot of people

472
00:44:09.960 --> 00:44:14.880
I talked to my sister for instance, to get it that very afraid of

473
00:44:15.760 --> 00:44:19.599
just thinking about things like this.
Yeah, a lot. It frightens a

474
00:44:19.599 --> 00:44:30.480
lot of people. So then when
you looked at areas of where people were

475
00:44:30.519 --> 00:44:32.880
from rural, small town, suburban, you looked at that sort of thing

476
00:44:34.320 --> 00:44:39.960
parts of the country, did you
find any trend that way? Not really

477
00:44:40.280 --> 00:44:46.360
there were. It was thirty percent
from a rural area, but twenty six

478
00:44:46.400 --> 00:44:52.800
percent from small towns, twenty six
from suburban areas, in eighteen percent from

479
00:44:52.920 --> 00:45:01.000
urban areas. So it was really
fairly evenly distributed, which kind of makes

480
00:45:01.000 --> 00:45:07.599
sense because at least you know from
the researchers, because of course that's where

481
00:45:07.639 --> 00:45:10.199
you and I get to see each
other at these conferences. And from listening

482
00:45:10.280 --> 00:45:15.199
to the different lectures and speaking with
them interviewing them, there doesn't seem to

483
00:45:15.280 --> 00:45:22.000
be I've never heard anybody talk about
a trend as far as a geographic trend

484
00:45:22.039 --> 00:45:27.960
as to where things like this happen. It seems to be spread pretty evenly

485
00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:31.039
spread throughout the country. Yes,
it does seem to be that way.

486
00:45:31.360 --> 00:45:37.400
And it was interesting initially. You
know, we asked what time zone people

487
00:45:37.800 --> 00:45:44.800
were lived in, and we had
a five greater percentage from the Eastern time

488
00:45:44.920 --> 00:45:50.119
zone sixty six percent, and so
we were wondering, Jeeves, you know,

489
00:45:50.840 --> 00:45:55.440
is there a base under the Atlantic
Ocean? Why such a high number.

490
00:45:55.800 --> 00:46:02.280
But then we found out that that
wasn't statistically significant because in the control

491
00:46:02.360 --> 00:46:07.800
group, eighty percent were from the
Eastern United States. So, you know,

492
00:46:07.840 --> 00:46:14.559
it just appears to be that people
in the East heard the radio shows.

493
00:46:14.599 --> 00:46:20.760
Probably, yeah, that we interviewed
on We do more in the Eastern

494
00:46:20.920 --> 00:46:27.360
United States, I think, probably
because it's pretty late out in California when

495
00:46:28.079 --> 00:46:32.079
they when they do their radio interviews
here, you know, so we tend

496
00:46:32.079 --> 00:46:37.639
to go for the ones in the
within our time zones. See, that's

497
00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:40.400
interesting, and thank goodness for your
control group or else you might have been

498
00:46:40.800 --> 00:46:46.159
steered in the wrong direction. Absolutely, that was so important. So that

499
00:46:46.320 --> 00:46:53.719
is really interesting. And you know
what I find fascinating is especially because most

500
00:46:53.760 --> 00:47:00.000
of the years I've spent at least
when I was working with abductees and research

501
00:47:00.159 --> 00:47:04.800
those kind of cases, was in
Denver, and it was in urban environments,

502
00:47:04.960 --> 00:47:07.679
and that's what I find fascinating.
Of course, there were some cases

503
00:47:07.679 --> 00:47:20.800
in rural areas, but you know, these highly populated urban environments where these

504
00:47:20.960 --> 00:47:25.519
people, you know, report these
strange things happening in the middle of a

505
00:47:25.639 --> 00:47:30.280
busy neighborhood. Not like Betty Hill, Betty and Barney, who were they

506
00:47:30.320 --> 00:47:34.239
were out kind of in the middle
of the words I mean, but people

507
00:47:34.480 --> 00:47:37.719
like, you know, in a
big, busy neighborhood in an urban area,

508
00:47:38.199 --> 00:47:40.440
you know, being taken in the
middle of the night, or and

509
00:47:40.599 --> 00:47:46.199
seeing craft. And that just fascinates
me because I find at least a couple

510
00:47:46.239 --> 00:47:53.559
of these cases to be pretty strong. Absolutely, I do find it fascinating

511
00:47:53.639 --> 00:48:00.920
as well and pretty nervy of these
ages too, to go into a very

512
00:48:01.079 --> 00:48:07.119
large metropolitan area to take people.
You know, how did they disguise themselves.

513
00:48:07.159 --> 00:48:13.039
We know that they were caught when
they went to New York City to

514
00:48:13.079 --> 00:48:19.360
take Linda Courtillu. So mm hmm, maybe you could talk about that case

515
00:48:19.400 --> 00:48:23.840
for a minute, because that was
a woman who was I believe seen being

516
00:48:23.920 --> 00:48:30.800
taken from a skyscraper. Is that
what was Yes? Absolutely, And there

517
00:48:30.840 --> 00:48:37.559
were several witnesses to her being taken
from the skyscraper that she lived in,

518
00:48:37.119 --> 00:48:45.320
and people on the bridge, their
cars, the motors in their cars died.

519
00:48:45.840 --> 00:48:49.800
And do you know what they thought. They thought that they were watching

520
00:48:49.920 --> 00:48:53.559
a movie being made at night.
They had no idea that it was a

521
00:48:53.599 --> 00:49:00.000
real abduction in process. And that's
exactly what was happened, and Linda was

522
00:49:00.039 --> 00:49:06.159
being taken. Now, did you
run across any other cases in urban areas

523
00:49:06.199 --> 00:49:15.559
where there were other witnesses to people
being taken? Hm? Boy, not

524
00:49:15.679 --> 00:49:19.719
that I can remember off the top
of my head. Yeah, I have

525
00:49:19.880 --> 00:49:24.920
not. I can't recall anything other
than the Linda Cortill case that way either.

526
00:49:27.159 --> 00:49:32.000
That's something that I would really have
to study the questionnaires for to find

527
00:49:32.039 --> 00:49:39.559
out if the person who is living
in an urban area was taken in front

528
00:49:39.559 --> 00:49:43.760
of a witness And that's one of
the questions I asked. But I didn't

529
00:49:43.800 --> 00:49:47.480
look for correlating information between the two. It might be interesting to take a

530
00:49:47.519 --> 00:49:52.800
look. Now, I guess I'd
be asking you to speculate here, But

531
00:49:52.960 --> 00:49:57.760
how do you think that happened?
How do you think you know people would

532
00:49:57.760 --> 00:50:05.480
be able to be taken from I'm
sure this isn't the only Manhattan abduction that's

533
00:50:05.519 --> 00:50:14.119
been reported, people being taken from
urban areas or large suburban areas without being

534
00:50:14.199 --> 00:50:20.880
seen. Well, you know,
the craft has to have the capability of

535
00:50:20.960 --> 00:50:29.199
becoming invisible, and we know that
the ets seem to have that capability too.

536
00:50:29.320 --> 00:50:36.039
So many people report that there are
light orbs or balls maybe baseball size

537
00:50:36.639 --> 00:50:42.440
balls of light in their homes or
in their apartments, and they are almost

538
00:50:42.480 --> 00:50:49.280
like a bubble popping. They very
rapidly expand into ET. So there's something

539
00:50:49.400 --> 00:50:55.199
going on with that technology that almost
seems paranormal to us, in the sense

540
00:50:55.239 --> 00:50:59.960
of being a ghost or something like
that. It seems that they're able,

541
00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:06.079
well, they've harnessed that kind of
technology, that knowledge, so that they're

542
00:51:06.119 --> 00:51:15.239
capable of doing this. Just the
way they can cause the vibration vibrational rate

543
00:51:15.519 --> 00:51:22.280
of the human body and the solid
surface to vibrate at the same frequency,

544
00:51:22.760 --> 00:51:29.960
so that matter can pass through matter. So they're you know, probably hundreds

545
00:51:30.079 --> 00:51:36.440
or thousands of years more advanced than
us in her in their technological and scientific

546
00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:40.880
capabilities. And it's interesting you talk
about the orb thing because I've even heard

547
00:51:42.280 --> 00:51:49.039
at least a theory by one very
popular ghost hunter. He's on some of

548
00:51:49.039 --> 00:51:53.360
the TV shows where and he doesn't
like to talk about UFOs and ets much

549
00:51:53.400 --> 00:51:58.760
because he's a ghost guy, but
he says he feels that some of the

550
00:51:58.920 --> 00:52:04.559
orbs they see are when they see
balls of light. That some of these

551
00:52:04.599 --> 00:52:09.760
things he thinks are not just ghosts
flying around, but he feels possibly extraterrestrials

552
00:52:09.800 --> 00:52:14.440
are able to turn into the ball
of light and travel around. Yes,

553
00:52:14.559 --> 00:52:22.199
absolutely, that is the reports that
I have heard or are very consistent with

554
00:52:22.239 --> 00:52:28.400
that. Yeah, it is et
inside this ball of light. Wow,

555
00:52:28.519 --> 00:52:34.280
that's interesting. So I guess moving
on to another really interesting Well, your

556
00:52:34.280 --> 00:52:40.079
whole study is pretty interesting. But
conscious recall and this is kind of contrary

557
00:52:40.199 --> 00:52:47.519
to the whole sleep paralysis idea,
and it's something that those who study sleep

558
00:52:47.559 --> 00:52:54.320
paralysis kind of don't address. And
you were able to show here, which

559
00:52:54.360 --> 00:53:02.119
is a lot of people that they
consciously recall the events that take place,

560
00:53:02.159 --> 00:53:07.280
don't I skipped something, but we'll
come back to it absolutely. Eighty eight

561
00:53:07.400 --> 00:53:15.639
percent stated that their abduction memories were
consciously recalled, and I knew from Bud

562
00:53:15.639 --> 00:53:21.960
Hopkins, John Max, and David
Jacob statistics that it was in the thirty

563
00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:28.880
to forty percent range. Eighty eight
percent was really a startling figure and highly

564
00:53:29.000 --> 00:53:37.599
statistically significant. Sixty six percent said
that they consciously recalled an unconventional craft at

565
00:53:37.719 --> 00:53:44.000
less than one thousand feet to them
prior to the abduction, and fifty six

566
00:53:44.119 --> 00:53:52.000
percent said that they consciously recalled the
observation of non human entities immediately prior to

567
00:53:52.079 --> 00:53:59.519
their abduction, and seventy six percent
said that they were not alone when they

568
00:53:59.519 --> 00:54:07.360
were taking and sixty two percent of
those said that the witness they had witnesses

569
00:54:07.400 --> 00:54:15.920
who also recalled this experience. So
that really kind of blew my mind in

570
00:54:15.960 --> 00:54:25.239
a sense because the percentage is far
higher than we're led to believe, right,

571
00:54:25.400 --> 00:54:30.960
And I think the problem is is
that just people don't do the kind

572
00:54:30.960 --> 00:54:36.960
of important work like you've done here
to find out what these numbers actually are.

573
00:54:37.840 --> 00:54:42.760
And so you know, again that's
why this is so great, But

574
00:54:42.960 --> 00:54:49.239
yeah, were those numbers surprising to
you. Absolutely, absolutely, there were

575
00:54:49.400 --> 00:54:54.360
much higher than I had anticipated.
It's interesting though, too, is I

576
00:54:54.440 --> 00:55:00.360
was going to say that it does
match. However, Betty and bar He's

577
00:55:00.360 --> 00:55:02.719
experienced a bit too, because at
least part of their experience they remembered,

578
00:55:04.559 --> 00:55:10.400
Oh, they remembered everything except for
the abduction on the craft itself. A

579
00:55:10.400 --> 00:55:15.800
lot of people don't realize that it's
been played a little bit differently, but

580
00:55:16.039 --> 00:55:22.280
I have evidence that they remembered everything
except for being on that craft. So

581
00:55:22.320 --> 00:55:28.440
this kind of fits along with their
experience. A lot of this does really

582
00:55:29.119 --> 00:55:36.280
Absolutely. Yeah, so that's really
fascinating. And even I guess if you

583
00:55:36.320 --> 00:55:43.440
think of another what it came to
mind when you said the sixty six percent

584
00:55:43.519 --> 00:55:49.800
that consciously recalled observing the craft prior, It made me think of Travis Walton,

585
00:55:49.840 --> 00:55:52.880
because that's what happened in his case. He consciously remembered, you know,

586
00:55:52.920 --> 00:55:57.440
of course, there were many witnesses
to the craft at first, and

587
00:55:57.559 --> 00:56:01.119
he even remembers when he was dropped
off the craft flying off. Yes,

588
00:56:01.480 --> 00:56:07.320
absolutely, the Casey County, Kentucky
case was the same. The Alligash case

589
00:56:07.880 --> 00:56:15.880
was the same. So many historical
cases have had close encounters prior to the

590
00:56:15.960 --> 00:56:22.760
abduction. Yeah, the Allagash one
is a great one. Luckily those guys

591
00:56:23.000 --> 00:56:29.800
were at a move from or No, it was a UFO congress several years

592
00:56:29.800 --> 00:56:31.599
ago, five six years ago.
I think that I got to be at

593
00:56:31.679 --> 00:56:37.079
and meet them, and you know, they kind of remind me of Travis

594
00:56:37.079 --> 00:56:40.239
Walton in a way, and that
they're just these real, down to earth,

595
00:56:40.599 --> 00:56:47.719
regular guys and their story doesn't change
over the years. Just fascinating.

596
00:56:47.760 --> 00:56:52.159
They have no idea what to make
of it. But here again, like

597
00:56:52.199 --> 00:56:55.000
you said, I know them,
very nice guys and it started with a

598
00:56:55.119 --> 00:57:02.800
sighting, yes, fishing, and
you know, here you are, you're

599
00:57:02.840 --> 00:57:09.920
in an external environment, you're out
camping or fishing or driving and you're picked

600
00:57:10.000 --> 00:57:15.400
up. Now. One difference actually
with the Aligash case from these other famous

601
00:57:15.400 --> 00:57:19.400
cases we're talking about, and actually
I was going to ask you about in

602
00:57:19.679 --> 00:57:28.039
this one statistic you had here was
that seventy six indicated percent indicated they were

603
00:57:28.079 --> 00:57:32.559
not alone when they were taken.
However, at least well not the case

604
00:57:32.599 --> 00:57:36.599
in Barney Hill, but in the
case of Travis Walton, and I know

605
00:57:36.679 --> 00:57:40.119
in the case of a lot of
others, typically one person is taken as

606
00:57:40.159 --> 00:57:51.400
opposed to multiples, Is that correct? Not necessarily? Not necessarily, you

607
00:57:51.440 --> 00:57:53.960
know, I'm thinking of the Casey
County, Kentucky case. For example,

608
00:57:54.320 --> 00:58:00.800
Mona Stafford, Elaine Thomas, and
Louise Smith were taken three of them.

609
00:58:00.679 --> 00:58:08.559
Also, an investigation that Walter Webb
did on an abduction in Vermont, a

610
00:58:08.679 --> 00:58:15.400
counter at buff Ledge, there were
two taken, Charlie Hickson and Calvin Parker

611
00:58:15.920 --> 00:58:23.559
two. So in some cases two
are taken and in other cases it's just

612
00:58:23.719 --> 00:58:30.360
one. And it seems to follow
genetic lines as well. So maybe initially

613
00:58:30.039 --> 00:58:37.880
there might have been say maybe three
taken, but for some reason only one

614
00:58:37.000 --> 00:58:42.880
or two continued to be revisited.
And if they had children, then the

615
00:58:43.000 --> 00:58:47.639
children were taken as well. Gotcha
because in the Alley Gosh, it was

616
00:58:47.719 --> 00:58:52.679
multiples with Betty and Barney Hill,
it was both of them. So if

617
00:58:52.719 --> 00:58:58.039
you're so, it may make people
hesitant of maybe going on a track camping

618
00:58:58.079 --> 00:59:04.239
trip with an abductee because they may
pick you up as well to check you

619
00:59:04.280 --> 00:59:07.920
out. Huh. They might be
for the thrill of their lives great,

620
00:59:09.679 --> 00:59:15.880
although I know some instances where people
go out on camping trips with subductees on

621
00:59:15.960 --> 00:59:22.199
purpose. Yeah, we try to
experience something so some there are a lot

622
00:59:22.239 --> 00:59:25.960
of people who have told me they
would love to be taken. I really

623
00:59:25.960 --> 00:59:31.000
can't understand why, but I guess
they're hoping for a very positive experience.

624
00:59:32.920 --> 00:59:37.360
Well, what you had just said
kind of seguays too. Maybe I kind

625
00:59:37.360 --> 00:59:39.079
of skipped this section, but it's
maybe better that I did, because we

626
00:59:39.119 --> 00:59:45.599
can come back to a couple of
the questions that you had found some interesting

627
00:59:45.639 --> 00:59:52.599
stuff. Also, is that pretty
much the majority of the answers, as

628
00:59:52.599 --> 00:59:57.760
far as the people were saying as
to how many times they had been taken,

629
00:59:58.400 --> 01:00:04.920
most felt ten or more. Yes, absolutely, they felt that they

630
01:00:04.960 --> 01:00:09.599
had been taken for the first time
as children. Some of them were outside

631
01:00:09.719 --> 01:00:16.000
playing. I get report after reports
of a group of children who are out

632
01:00:16.280 --> 01:00:21.400
in a park, out the woods, out playing in a field, and

633
01:00:22.280 --> 01:00:29.760
they are taken as children, and
then they are taken time and time again

634
01:00:29.920 --> 01:00:35.960
throughout their lifetime. Most people indicate
to me that they're taken at least once

635
01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:42.239
a year. Wow. And like
you said, because I think that was

636
01:00:42.320 --> 01:00:46.639
something startling that I had found,
because I was skeptical of the whole production

637
01:00:46.760 --> 01:00:50.800
thing. Like I said, when
I started to investigate, then I had

638
01:00:50.840 --> 01:00:54.559
people come to me who said that
they had felt they had these experiences.

639
01:00:55.079 --> 01:01:00.440
So I checked out those cases,
many of whom really seemed to be genuine,

640
01:01:00.880 --> 01:01:06.159
and I found that in every single
one of these cases, like you

641
01:01:06.239 --> 01:01:08.559
had said, you know, it
was multiple times, it was throughout their

642
01:01:08.599 --> 01:01:12.639
life, kind of like they were
tagged, and like you had said,

643
01:01:13.199 --> 01:01:16.760
you know, typically well almost,
I think every time with any case that

644
01:01:16.840 --> 01:01:28.000
I thought was seemed credible, a
parent was taken and a child. Yes,

645
01:01:29.519 --> 01:01:37.280
yes, they're following genetic lines,
and they also seemed to be conducting

646
01:01:37.639 --> 01:01:46.760
genetic experiments on some of those parents, reproductive experiments, and perhaps the fetus

647
01:01:47.159 --> 01:01:54.639
that they're carrying has been altered in
some way. Many experiencers have very gifted

648
01:01:54.840 --> 01:02:05.599
children that might be surprising to you
too, And that wasn't on this survey,

649
01:02:05.800 --> 01:02:08.559
but it will be on another one. I think. Okay, yeah,

650
01:02:08.599 --> 01:02:15.239
that's very interesting. I mean when
you hear from some people what kids

651
01:02:15.280 --> 01:02:22.159
say about some of this stuff,
Like I remember one story that really and

652
01:02:22.679 --> 01:02:27.000
I've just heard this a lot,
but and you've probably heard similar stories,

653
01:02:27.039 --> 01:02:31.840
but one that really sticks with me
because the friend of mine was just so

654
01:02:31.880 --> 01:02:37.679
shocked by it, is that a
coworker, and when you know, I

655
01:02:37.760 --> 01:02:45.239
usually don't share my side life here
with coworkers. But when she did find

656
01:02:45.239 --> 01:02:46.719
out about it, and we talked
a lot about it, she went home

657
01:02:47.159 --> 01:02:52.559
and she told her kids, and
one of her young sons said, oh,

658
01:02:52.599 --> 01:02:57.679
yeah, mom, the aliens are
coming here because they put us here

659
01:02:57.679 --> 01:03:00.760
and we're an experiment, and they
come back and they check on us once

660
01:03:00.800 --> 01:03:04.159
in a while. M hm.
And he was like, I think seven

661
01:03:04.239 --> 01:03:07.679
years old. And she asked him
where he got that information from. No,

662
01:03:07.800 --> 01:03:12.320
she was just so shocked. She
she had never really asked that,

663
01:03:14.320 --> 01:03:17.400
and I am, but that was
something that really stuck with her that she

664
01:03:17.559 --> 01:03:21.760
was just shocked to hear this,
because of course, this is her kid

665
01:03:21.840 --> 01:03:25.440
who's usually just jumping on the couch
and being goofy and the watching cartoons and

666
01:03:27.039 --> 01:03:30.920
just very matter of factly told her
this is what's going on. Mom.

667
01:03:30.280 --> 01:03:38.320
Mm, well, she'll have to
ask him where he received that information from,

668
01:03:38.559 --> 01:03:44.000
right. I think she was just
a little too afraid to talk about

669
01:03:44.000 --> 01:03:46.400
that. But I heard others to
hear that he heard it in school.

670
01:03:46.679 --> 01:03:51.320
Yeah, but it is surprising.
I've heard other stories, and I'm sure

671
01:03:51.320 --> 01:03:57.639
you have of these kids just articulating
these these concepts regarding this kind of stuff

672
01:03:59.480 --> 01:04:03.679
with really advanced thinking compared to you
know, their age. Yes, absolutely,

673
01:04:04.559 --> 01:04:13.679
they seem to possess knowledge that they
have not been taught. They have

674
01:04:13.760 --> 01:04:24.280
psychic abilities, they're intellectually gifted many
times, so it's very interesting. Yeah,

675
01:04:24.679 --> 01:04:30.599
things that the ets, at least
the Graves and the Nordics and the

676
01:04:30.639 --> 01:04:40.360
insectoids really have no intention of harming
us. Certainly they've been taking humans for

677
01:04:40.440 --> 01:04:47.079
their experiments, which and that is
a violation of medical ethics, but they

678
01:04:47.519 --> 01:04:55.639
somehow feel that they have the right
to do that and might even feel that

679
01:04:55.679 --> 01:05:03.280
they have created many of those that
they that they do. Think that's interesting,

680
01:05:03.320 --> 01:05:08.480
and that gets into the next section
because at least it was my experience.

681
01:05:09.599 --> 01:05:12.519
And then I used to work more
with doctor Leo Sprinkle because he was

682
01:05:12.599 --> 01:05:18.599
nearby, and I thought it was
important because he was always focused on helping

683
01:05:18.639 --> 01:05:24.920
people through the emotional aspect of what
they were experiencing so they can you know,

684
01:05:25.519 --> 01:05:29.599
alleviate the negative emotion and move on
with their lives. But yeah,

685
01:05:29.599 --> 01:05:32.920
I certainly there were a lot of
people who were No one was completely negative

686
01:05:32.920 --> 01:05:39.440
towards what happened. There was one
gentleman who was extremely fearful, but he

687
01:05:39.480 --> 01:05:45.280
would tell me, I don't feel
bad because I get this sense that they're

688
01:05:45.320 --> 01:05:49.400
doing their job and that's they're just
doing their job and it's what they're supposed

689
01:05:49.440 --> 01:05:55.440
to do, and they don't hate
me. And the only thing that I

690
01:05:56.800 --> 01:06:02.440
he didn't like was the how scary
it was. It can be very frightening

691
01:06:03.159 --> 01:06:10.239
when you find yourself on a craft
on a table and you're helpless. It's

692
01:06:10.440 --> 01:06:18.119
extremely frightening if you're in your home
and perhaps you're lying in bed and you

693
01:06:18.280 --> 01:06:24.400
realize as a presence in the room
and suddenly you're paralyzed and you're taken very

694
01:06:24.519 --> 01:06:29.760
very rapidly to a craft. So
certain things can be very frightening. And

695
01:06:29.840 --> 01:06:39.000
I think, but they're being kind
by erasing our memories. And also they

696
01:06:39.280 --> 01:06:46.119
tend to always have one escort who
I call it an escort, a being

697
01:06:46.519 --> 01:06:54.199
that accompanies a particular person time and
time again and comforts that person. It's

698
01:06:54.199 --> 01:07:00.079
sort of a one on one that
an experiencer has with an et M hmm,

699
01:07:01.519 --> 01:07:05.760
right. And you know, getting
into that emotional part, because you

700
01:07:05.800 --> 01:07:12.239
did ask questions around the emotion that
a lot of people did say they were

701
01:07:12.320 --> 01:07:19.920
fearful, but almost as many said
they were very curious. Yes, yes,

702
01:07:20.079 --> 01:07:28.320
that's true. And what happened I
think is that they were fearful for

703
01:07:28.559 --> 01:07:34.880
years and then they finally overcame that
fear. And it's interesting that many of

704
01:07:34.920 --> 01:07:42.679
those who have overcome the fear did
so through hypnotic regressions, so they had

705
01:07:42.760 --> 01:07:46.800
regressive hypnosis over and over again.
I'm not talking about just one hit and

706
01:07:46.920 --> 01:07:53.679
run kind of session that might leave
you more traumatized than you were before the

707
01:07:53.719 --> 01:08:00.880
session, but several sessions and they
come to realize generally that the not being

708
01:08:00.000 --> 01:08:06.119
harmed, that these individuals are giving
them message that cause them to feel that

709
01:08:06.159 --> 01:08:13.559
they really and truly care about them. And so I think that it's that

710
01:08:13.679 --> 01:08:18.840
kind of message that causes the fear
to subside and for people to be able

711
01:08:18.880 --> 01:08:27.359
to go on with their lives and
to develop a curiosity about what is happening

712
01:08:27.399 --> 01:08:36.199
to them now. Some researchers build
that this feeling of of love and comfort

713
01:08:36.399 --> 01:08:45.479
is disingenuine and that it's just a
trick to calm the human down. Yes,

714
01:08:45.920 --> 01:08:53.319
many researchers believe that, and many
abduction experiencers do as well, but

715
01:08:53.680 --> 01:09:00.159
there are others who who feel that
the ets are genuine and who feel well

716
01:09:00.319 --> 01:09:04.039
a part of that, they are
a part of them. And would you

717
01:09:04.079 --> 01:09:12.119
say that's the majority? You know? That wasn't. It wasn't something that

718
01:09:12.159 --> 01:09:16.439
I could analyze statistically, so I
really don't know. It's more anecdotal,

719
01:09:16.800 --> 01:09:24.039
okay, and an interesting one actually. Also, how do you feel after

720
01:09:24.079 --> 01:09:32.880
the experience? Mostly either angry or
just tired and exhausted, yes, yes,

721
01:09:33.000 --> 01:09:41.520
and generally a combination of the two. Because people's lives are disrupted by

722
01:09:41.640 --> 01:09:44.399
this. You know, if you
have a job and you have to get

723
01:09:44.479 --> 01:09:47.680
up and go to work, and
you know it's six or seven o'clock in

724
01:09:47.720 --> 01:09:56.239
the morning and you've been abducted and
you've spent your your night on a craft

725
01:09:56.359 --> 01:10:02.159
and you haven't gotten enough sleep,
or if you are so fearful that you're

726
01:10:02.199 --> 01:10:10.880
not able to sleep, it really
has a huge impact upon your health and

727
01:10:10.960 --> 01:10:16.079
well being, and it can make
you very angry. Now, on the

728
01:10:16.119 --> 01:10:21.439
other part of the emotional questions that
you asked, this was really interesting.

729
01:10:21.479 --> 01:10:28.479
I thought you asked about kind of
how their moods are overall throughout their lives,

730
01:10:29.199 --> 01:10:38.840
and it looks like fairly consistent with
the control for the most part except

731
01:10:38.880 --> 01:10:45.800
for sad. Yes, more people
reported. More abductees reported being sad.

732
01:10:46.800 --> 01:10:55.119
Yes, more abductees did report being
sad, but more of the control group

733
01:10:55.239 --> 01:11:02.159
reported frequent mood swings, so that
was interesting. The abduction experiences moods were

734
01:11:02.279 --> 01:11:13.000
fairly stable, but a percentage of
the abduction experiencers said that they felt sad.

735
01:11:13.680 --> 01:11:19.399
And that's really too bad. You
know, maybe related to this experience,

736
01:11:20.039 --> 01:11:28.960
but sometimes they reported that they had
a history of childhood abuse, and

737
01:11:30.199 --> 01:11:35.439
those who had the child's foot abuse
tended to feel sadness plus have more mood

738
01:11:35.520 --> 01:11:43.319
swings than the others, and this
persisted throughout their lifetime. So you know,

739
01:11:43.359 --> 01:11:49.479
it's very unfortunate and tragic in a
sense. But a small percentage of

740
01:11:49.560 --> 01:11:59.279
the group did have those characteristics.
So then you asked about sleep patterns,

741
01:12:00.159 --> 01:12:06.960
Yes, and you found people did
have problems falling asleep and staying asleep.

742
01:12:10.239 --> 01:12:15.600
Was it more so the abdectees than
the control Yes, well, actually I

743
01:12:15.640 --> 01:12:19.960
did that question was not on the
control group. Oh, okay, on

744
01:12:20.039 --> 01:12:26.760
that questionnaire. It was just an
oversight on my part. I'm angry with

745
01:12:26.800 --> 01:12:31.239
myself over that, and I'm going
to have to test that in another study

746
01:12:31.760 --> 01:12:36.800
that I do. I guess initially
it didn't jump out at me as being

747
01:12:36.840 --> 01:12:44.119
statistically significant, but it ended up
being very significant. Seventy four percent of

748
01:12:44.279 --> 01:12:50.439
the abduction experiencer group had difficulty falling
asleep, and seventy one percent stated that

749
01:12:50.479 --> 01:12:56.439
they had difficulty staying asleep. And
you know, then you have to ask

750
01:12:57.039 --> 01:13:00.279
why is this. Is it because
of the fear or do they have a

751
01:13:00.359 --> 01:13:12.720
sleep disorder. It's particularly interesting if
somebody has difficulty staying asleep, because that

752
01:13:12.800 --> 01:13:16.239
could be a sign of depression,
if you're waking up in the middle of

753
01:13:16.279 --> 01:13:20.399
the night or very early and not
able to get back to sleep. But

754
01:13:20.680 --> 01:13:26.920
so many people simply wrote to me, well, when those ET's come and

755
01:13:27.079 --> 01:13:33.039
take me, they're returning me very
early in the morning or in the middle

756
01:13:33.079 --> 01:13:38.119
of the night, and I can't
get back to sleep. I'm so upset.

757
01:13:39.920 --> 01:13:46.000
And many people stated that they weren't
able to sleep because they feared an

758
01:13:46.000 --> 01:13:56.399
abduction experience, but others stated that
it was unrelated to their emotional state too,

759
01:13:56.680 --> 01:13:59.840
So it's kind of a mixed bag. And what I'm telling you here

760
01:14:00.239 --> 01:14:08.800
anecdotal mm hm, well, and
I guess on this is since we're in

761
01:14:08.840 --> 01:14:13.640
the emotional part. You know,
even recently I was speaking with Elaine Douglas

762
01:14:13.640 --> 01:14:24.479
and in PTSD, a lot of
times people don't relate the symptoms to the

763
01:14:24.560 --> 01:14:30.880
trauma. I guess whereas they're they're
showing symptoms where they're experiencing these things and

764
01:14:30.920 --> 01:14:34.079
they don't know why and they don't
realize it's related to a certain trauma.

765
01:14:35.600 --> 01:14:40.159
Do you think there's some of that
happening, well, that would be a

766
01:14:40.159 --> 01:14:45.279
symptom of post traumatic stress disorder.
Yes, it would be. The one

767
01:14:45.359 --> 01:14:53.000
interesting finding I had, but the
percentage was so low is that it was

768
01:14:53.079 --> 01:14:59.680
only three out of fifty reported that
they do not have fear of abduction any

769
01:14:59.760 --> 01:15:05.000
law younger, and they were also
able to sleep through the night without a

770
01:15:05.039 --> 01:15:11.680
problem. So I suppose if you
can overcome your fear, you're more likely

771
01:15:12.319 --> 01:15:15.319
to be able to sleep as long
as you're not being taken on that particular

772
01:15:15.520 --> 01:15:24.720
night. So getting into physiological responses, some interesting things here, especially with

773
01:15:24.920 --> 01:15:30.399
starting off with a implant in that
you asked if people felt that they had

774
01:15:30.439 --> 01:15:35.760
an implant, and half felt that
they did. Is that am I reading

775
01:15:35.800 --> 01:15:43.319
that correct? Yes? Yes,
I believe it was fifty two percent believed

776
01:15:43.439 --> 01:15:48.880
that they did have an implant,
and then and just to follow up,

777
01:15:48.880 --> 01:15:51.640
just because I think this is related
and I kind of want to talk about

778
01:15:51.640 --> 01:15:57.319
these two overall in general. The
other interesting one because this is something I

779
01:15:57.359 --> 01:16:01.119
find fascinating about some of the cases
I looked that seemed credible. You asked

780
01:16:01.119 --> 01:16:08.680
if they had awoken with unexplained marks
on their body, and at the abductee

781
01:16:08.680 --> 01:16:14.560
group said yes at something like eighty
three percent, whereas, of course the

782
01:16:14.600 --> 01:16:19.000
controls, most of them said no, they hadn't had that experience. Yes,

783
01:16:19.199 --> 01:16:29.239
absolutely, so that was highly significant. The abduction experiencers have marks from

784
01:16:29.479 --> 01:16:36.680
patterned black and blue marks on their
bodies to what appears to be finger marks.

785
01:16:38.199 --> 01:16:44.920
Now, I've received photographs from abduction
experiencers and reports as well of three

786
01:16:45.119 --> 01:16:51.119
pressure marks where they've been returned,
and I have photographs, which is really

787
01:16:53.520 --> 01:17:00.000
very important to me. They've been
returned with three long finger marks on each

788
01:17:00.119 --> 01:17:08.520
calf of their leg or on their
upper arms, and in every case it

789
01:17:08.600 --> 01:17:14.000
has been a woman who has reported
this to me, So I found that

790
01:17:14.199 --> 01:17:21.359
very very interesting. Of course,
there are also puncture wounds reports from men,

791
01:17:21.560 --> 01:17:28.399
primarily of puncture wounds into the chest
area, perhaps into the area of

792
01:17:28.439 --> 01:17:34.720
the finest gland. Of course,
bloody noses are reported, scoop marks.

793
01:17:34.880 --> 01:17:44.319
We've heard about scoop marks for probably
thirty or forty years now, and the

794
01:17:44.359 --> 01:17:53.720
sunburn kind of rash on the body
as well. So abduction experiencers received these

795
01:17:53.840 --> 01:18:01.800
kinds of marks and can't explain them, cannot remember anything from the previous day

796
01:18:02.399 --> 01:18:10.039
that might have caused this kind of
thing. They're recalling at least part of

797
01:18:10.119 --> 01:18:15.520
an abduction experience, and when they
wake up or when they're returned and they're

798
01:18:15.560 --> 01:18:20.760
wide awake, they find these marks
on their bodies. A lot of them

799
01:18:20.880 --> 01:18:28.239
look for marks immediately after they're returned, and I find this area. It's

800
01:18:28.239 --> 01:18:33.600
interesting because I think that this is
some of the most important area areas of

801
01:18:34.239 --> 01:18:42.720
this experience, because this is physical
evidence that absolutely and there's the opportunity too

802
01:18:42.960 --> 01:18:50.880
if someone can do this to possibly
get some scientific evidence of something unusual going

803
01:18:50.920 --> 01:18:57.880
on here. Yes, I am
collecting a catalog of photographs, so if

804
01:18:57.880 --> 01:19:04.119
anyone who is listening photographs of this
evidence, I would certainly appreciate it if

805
01:19:04.159 --> 01:19:08.960
you would send it a copy of
it to me, and something else that

806
01:19:09.039 --> 01:19:16.880
I'm asking every abduction experiencer who's listening
is to please keep a diary or a

807
01:19:16.960 --> 01:19:23.920
journal and write down your experiences as
soon as you're returned. Check out your

808
01:19:23.960 --> 01:19:28.000
body, see if you have any
of these marks. If you do,

809
01:19:28.560 --> 01:19:32.880
photograph them and keep them with your
journal, that's very important for the collection

810
01:19:33.000 --> 01:19:39.199
of evidence. Now, have you
ever ran into a case where, and

811
01:19:39.239 --> 01:19:43.560
I think you'll ask them questions along
these lines, where a person who had

812
01:19:43.560 --> 01:19:50.600
these physiological effects went to a doctor
who looked at them and confirmed or was

813
01:19:50.680 --> 01:20:00.119
unable to explain them. Yes,
there are individuals who I have a medical

814
01:20:00.159 --> 01:20:08.319
report from one individual right now,
and it's actually going to be in my

815
01:20:08.560 --> 01:20:13.720
upcoming book that will be released next
May. But so I'm not going to

816
01:20:13.800 --> 01:20:21.199
go into great detail here, but
there has been physiological evidence discovered by physicians.

817
01:20:21.680 --> 01:20:29.520
Also in this report that I wrote, I talked about individuals who have

818
01:20:30.960 --> 01:20:36.640
their physician has found scar tissue in
their nasal cavity that couldn't be explained,

819
01:20:38.000 --> 01:20:43.840
and one wrote that there was actually
a metallic object in the nasal cavity.

820
01:20:44.560 --> 01:20:47.199
Wow. Great. See that's because
I think that's what's really important, is

821
01:20:47.239 --> 01:20:53.279
collecting that sort of evidence so you
can demonstrate that, yes, doctors have

822
01:20:53.399 --> 01:20:58.520
looked at these things and said that
these were unexplainable. Yes, And that's

823
01:20:58.560 --> 01:21:01.079
what kind of you know me with
the implant area, because I think we're

824
01:21:01.119 --> 01:21:05.560
at a bit of an impasse where
there's there needs to be more work on

825
01:21:05.640 --> 01:21:11.680
these possible implants that have been removed, because if they are real, of

826
01:21:11.720 --> 01:21:15.960
course, then there are there's research
that can be done to show that they

827
01:21:15.960 --> 01:21:20.399
are something strange, and so hopefully
that happens more in the future, because

828
01:21:20.399 --> 01:21:25.279
this is where the real paydirt is. I mean, this is strong evidence

829
01:21:25.359 --> 01:21:34.479
that it's physical, beyond anecdotal,
which it's so difficult to find. M

830
01:21:34.560 --> 01:21:38.319
Yeah, I've always felt, you
know, even though abductions of course are

831
01:21:38.319 --> 01:21:44.000
more fringe and harder to swallow for
people, they allow for the possibility of

832
01:21:44.000 --> 01:21:51.680
physical evidence more so than a sighting. Yes, they do the physiological evidence

833
01:21:51.800 --> 01:21:59.119
on the body, absolutely so.
And I guess moving on from some of

834
01:21:59.119 --> 01:22:03.680
the physiological stuff, although there was
something really interesting here and I was wondering

835
01:22:04.279 --> 01:22:12.680
actually how the questions even got on
there, But you found that the abductees,

836
01:22:13.159 --> 01:22:17.760
as opposed to the control by a
large amount, had a craving for

837
01:22:17.960 --> 01:22:25.319
salt. Yes, And that one's
pretty amazing to me that I didn't come

838
01:22:25.399 --> 01:22:30.640
up with that question that Denise asked
me to put it on the questionnaire,

839
01:22:30.239 --> 01:22:36.520
and so, you know, we
did. And I hadn't anticipated that we

840
01:22:36.560 --> 01:22:45.560
would have a high percentage of individuals
who reported that, but we absolutely did.

841
01:22:46.000 --> 01:22:50.720
Yeah, that's a very strange one, huh. Yes, so,

842
01:22:50.800 --> 01:22:56.000
and then some of the other things, like this was interesting, higher sensitivity

843
01:22:56.039 --> 01:23:01.039
the light. Yes, that was
another one we had asked for questions actually

844
01:23:02.439 --> 01:23:13.399
about sensitivity, and the sensitivity to
light was the statistically significant one. The

845
01:23:13.479 --> 01:23:17.720
other ones were more acute hearing that
was only twenty eight percent, more allergies

846
01:23:17.800 --> 01:23:24.319
thirty six percent, more fluctuation in
mood thirty four percent. But it was

847
01:23:24.920 --> 01:23:31.199
sensitivity to light that really drew the
greatest response. And then unfortunately, I

848
01:23:31.239 --> 01:23:38.399
mean, a couple of other unfortunate
side effects seemed to be They also reported

849
01:23:39.239 --> 01:23:45.399
much more than the controls, more
migraine headaches and for women, more genealogical

850
01:23:45.520 --> 01:23:55.319
or problemological chronecological genealogic hope that too. Yes, you know, so that

851
01:23:55.439 --> 01:24:04.239
was really quite significant, and thirty
percent stated that they had migraine headaches.

852
01:24:04.319 --> 01:24:11.279
That's far far higher than the national
average. Also, chronic fatigue and immune

853
01:24:11.319 --> 01:24:16.000
dysfunction syndrome. Thirty eight percent of
the participants in the study have a formal

854
01:24:16.079 --> 01:24:23.920
medical diagnosis of chronic fatigue and immune
dysfunction syndrome. Wow, not a psychological

855
01:24:24.119 --> 01:24:33.920
disorder. This is physiological. It's
debilitating, and it strikes less than one

856
01:24:34.119 --> 01:24:42.279
percent of the general population. It's
very high among abduction experiencers. And I

857
01:24:42.399 --> 01:24:50.119
wish that the medical community would look
into these factors. Yeah, that's very

858
01:24:50.159 --> 01:24:55.239
troublesome. I mean, not all
of these areas are. It's unfortunate that

859
01:24:56.359 --> 01:25:02.359
they seem to have these continued health
issues. Yes, absolutely, Now do

860
01:25:02.479 --> 01:25:13.319
these they over time? Do these
kind of subside or do they continue?

861
01:25:13.640 --> 01:25:16.359
They continue? Oh no, that's
instant, and you have chronics fatigue and

862
01:25:16.359 --> 01:25:23.560
immune dysfunction syndrome at waxes and wanes, so it can go on for twenty

863
01:25:23.760 --> 01:25:31.199
thirty forty years. Now. Sometimes
if people learn how to modify their lifestyle

864
01:25:31.800 --> 01:25:39.079
so that they get a lot of
rest, they don't over exert themselves,

865
01:25:39.640 --> 01:25:46.039
they won't have these flu like symptoms. But any time that they will really

866
01:25:46.359 --> 01:25:57.960
overdo, the symptoms can reappear.
Fevers, headaches, cognitive difficulties, memory

867
01:25:58.079 --> 01:26:04.640
problems, ambulace difficulty. It can
be a disabling disease. People are confined

868
01:26:04.680 --> 01:26:12.279
to wheelchairs for periods of time.
Who have people become totally disabled with this

869
01:26:14.880 --> 01:26:18.560
hug, Well, there's another reason
I don't want to be abducted. Yes,

870
01:26:20.720 --> 01:26:27.000
that's very sad. It is so. And then you get into asking

871
01:26:27.399 --> 01:26:34.960
questions about psychic phenomena and UH or
paranormal and things like this. And I

872
01:26:34.960 --> 01:26:40.159
guess one of the questions you ask, and you know, a lot of

873
01:26:40.199 --> 01:26:45.880
the abductees said that they have witnessed
or experienced paranormal activity in their home.

874
01:26:45.399 --> 01:26:49.239
What did you define as paranormal activity? Guys, these guys seeing ghosts or

875
01:26:49.680 --> 01:26:55.680
bigfoots or what's going on? Well, you know, I didn't want to

876
01:26:55.720 --> 01:27:02.239
give any leading questions, okay,
so I only stated normal activity and just

877
01:27:02.439 --> 01:27:09.680
to find out what kind of responses
I would receive to that, And I

878
01:27:09.720 --> 01:27:16.720
did that on purpose. So I'm
thinking of PSI phenomena, and people who

879
01:27:17.119 --> 01:27:23.079
were in the abduction groups talked about, of course the light orbs that I

880
01:27:23.199 --> 01:27:30.000
mentioned earlier, also things simply lifting
off shelves and flying at them in their

881
01:27:30.039 --> 01:27:36.840
household. And usually this occurs immediately
the day or two days after the abduction

882
01:27:38.000 --> 01:27:45.159
experience itself really very strange. Also, doors opening and closing on their own,

883
01:27:45.720 --> 01:27:50.760
lights, turning off and on on
their own computers. Malfunctioning immediately after

884
01:27:50.800 --> 01:27:58.520
an abduction watch is malfunctioning. Some
abduction experiences simply cannot wear a watch.

885
01:27:59.439 --> 01:28:05.199
Another something else that was mentioned was
a toilet flushing on its own, So

886
01:28:05.239 --> 01:28:13.840
it's that sort of thing. And
eighty eight percent of the abduction experiencers reported

887
01:28:14.479 --> 01:28:20.119
these events going on in their homes. Now I compared that to the other

888
01:28:20.239 --> 01:28:28.359
group, to the non abduction experiencer
group, and they reported more ghost like

889
01:28:28.439 --> 01:28:33.079
activity. Now I was really surprised
that I had a pretty high percentage I

890
01:28:33.159 --> 01:28:39.960
thought coming from that group, because
initially it was very very small. And

891
01:28:40.119 --> 01:28:45.560
then I realized I had done a
radio show. It was on a paranormal

892
01:28:45.640 --> 01:28:51.640
radio program that did a lot of
shows on ghost like activity in people's houses,

893
01:28:53.000 --> 01:28:56.720
and I had a huge response after
that show. So I think that

894
01:28:56.840 --> 01:29:01.840
it skewed my data. But so
I took a look at the things that

895
01:29:02.000 --> 01:29:09.640
they were reporting, and they were
reporting more ghost like activity, shadow people,

896
01:29:10.239 --> 01:29:16.319
spirits, cloudness, strange sounds,
strange odors, cold spots in their

897
01:29:16.399 --> 01:29:21.439
homes. And I didn't receive that
kind of information from most of the abduction

898
01:29:21.640 --> 01:29:29.520
experiences, so that PSI phenomenon or
PSI phenomena, I should say, tends

899
01:29:29.560 --> 01:29:40.680
to be different for the spirits haunted
houses as opposed to the houses where abduction

900
01:29:40.840 --> 01:29:47.760
experience is taking place. Now,
do you feel that that what they're experiencing?

901
01:29:49.000 --> 01:29:54.359
Do you have any ideas like somehow
maybe they're still undergoing some kind of

902
01:29:54.960 --> 01:30:01.680
psychological testing by the beings who are
coming in and messing with them. I

903
01:30:01.800 --> 01:30:06.960
really you know that that is a
really good question, and I'm attempting to

904
01:30:09.560 --> 01:30:17.039
collect more information before i can even
present a hypothesis about that. I have

905
01:30:17.239 --> 01:30:23.680
wondered if it has something to do
with the technology that the the ets or

906
01:30:23.720 --> 01:30:30.640
the science that the ets use in
coming into our environment and taking us into

907
01:30:30.800 --> 01:30:40.640
their environment, but who knows.
It's It's very very interesting to me because

908
01:30:41.920 --> 01:30:46.319
some of this happened in my aunt's
home and in my own childhood home,

909
01:30:47.760 --> 01:30:55.439
mostly after Betty's abduction experience. I
don't remember any of it occurring when I

910
01:30:55.560 --> 01:31:00.800
was a young child, but this
started up in my late teen and was

911
01:31:00.840 --> 01:31:04.680
going on when I was away at
college as well. Wow, so not

912
01:31:04.800 --> 01:31:10.800
surprising because we pretty much know this
that people have said that they had telepathic

913
01:31:10.880 --> 01:31:15.640
kind of communication with these beings during
their abduction. But something that I think

914
01:31:15.800 --> 01:31:26.479
is surprising that people had said that
they had developed psychic abilities and or healing

915
01:31:26.600 --> 01:31:31.560
abilities after the abduction events at a
large percentage. I thought that was very

916
01:31:31.560 --> 01:31:39.920
interesting. Yes, I did as
well, and it's just fascinating that such

917
01:31:39.960 --> 01:31:46.359
a seventy nine percent said that they
developed new psychic abilities after an abduction.

918
01:31:46.960 --> 01:31:53.359
There was a smaller percentage she said
that they had always had psychic abilities and

919
01:31:53.439 --> 01:31:58.000
they didn't know if it was because
they were taken when they were young children

920
01:31:58.560 --> 01:32:02.279
and developed those abilities then, or
if they had simply been born with those

921
01:32:02.319 --> 01:32:09.359
abilities. But very high percentage there. And were you able to speak with

922
01:32:09.439 --> 01:32:14.560
any of these people who felt they
had developed healing abilities and how did they

923
01:32:14.680 --> 01:32:20.760
discover that or how does this work? I think that they just and I

924
01:32:20.800 --> 01:32:27.359
didn't speak so many specifically about that, but it seems like they just sensed

925
01:32:28.000 --> 01:32:33.079
that they had this new gift and
tried it out and it works. Yeah.

926
01:32:33.199 --> 01:32:40.680
Very interesting. So I guess finally
getting into your miscellaneous category to see

927
01:32:40.680 --> 01:32:45.439
if you found something interesting here.
First blood type, did you find anything

928
01:32:46.119 --> 01:32:51.199
significant there with the blood type,
yes, and I would like to actually

929
01:32:53.199 --> 01:33:01.000
do further study on blood types as
well. Twenty nine in the group responded

930
01:33:01.039 --> 01:33:06.680
to the questions, so not everyone
responded. That were fifty in the abduction

931
01:33:06.840 --> 01:33:13.199
experience or group, but many did
not know their blood type. But of

932
01:33:13.279 --> 01:33:21.399
that twenty nine, fifty nine percent
said that they were Type A and thirty

933
01:33:21.399 --> 01:33:28.560
four percent said that they were Type
O. So, you know, I

934
01:33:28.560 --> 01:33:33.039
don't know what all of this means. I found a much higher percentage of

935
01:33:33.640 --> 01:33:42.039
negative RH negative blood among these abduction
experiences, and this has been reported in

936
01:33:42.119 --> 01:33:47.159
other studies as well, so it
simply confirms what the findings of those other

937
01:33:47.239 --> 01:33:53.399
studies. Yeah, and I can't
blame those people. I always forget my

938
01:33:53.399 --> 01:33:55.920
blood type. I don't know why, Like even right now, I can't

939
01:33:55.960 --> 01:34:00.880
remember what it is something important to
know though, huh, yes it is.

940
01:34:01.399 --> 01:34:12.520
And then finally, a lot of
people who experienced electronic equipment malfunctioning prior

941
01:34:12.560 --> 01:34:17.079
to their abduction experiences, which I
think you mentioned earlier, Yes, and

942
01:34:17.399 --> 01:34:26.600
that was not prior to, but
immediately after their abduction experiences, where yes,

943
01:34:26.680 --> 01:34:34.680
their computers would malfunction. Watches sometimes
the hands on the watch would spin

944
01:34:35.199 --> 01:34:43.199
light bulbs blowing out. You might
not have just one appliance blowout, but

945
01:34:44.319 --> 01:34:51.920
every appliance you touched that particular morning
blows out or burns out. Light bulb

946
01:34:53.000 --> 01:34:59.800
after light bulb blows out. It's
that sort of thing. Wow. Wow.

947
01:35:00.079 --> 01:35:02.079
So, I mean I think we
reviewed just about everything. I think

948
01:35:02.359 --> 01:35:06.479
one thing I didn't mention in the
physiological area that one of the other health

949
01:35:06.479 --> 01:35:13.399
effects or issues you talked about the
scabbing, But people experiencing nose bleeds more

950
01:35:15.039 --> 01:35:20.239
than abductees experiencing nose bleeds more than
the control group. Oh yes, absolutely,

951
01:35:20.399 --> 01:35:28.640
there was a much higher percentage,
and it occurred immediately after an abduction

952
01:35:28.800 --> 01:35:32.479
experience. There would be blood on
the pillow or the person would be returned

953
01:35:32.640 --> 01:35:39.439
with a nose bleed, much higher, much much higher than the control group.

954
01:35:40.159 --> 01:35:45.600
Well, this is an incredibly interesting
study. I think it's so I

955
01:35:45.720 --> 01:35:48.880
just love that there are people out
there doing this sort of work, because

956
01:35:48.880 --> 01:35:51.239
this is the kind of work that
needs to be done. I mean,

957
01:35:51.319 --> 01:35:56.239
this is so important, and I
think what you've done here, you and

958
01:35:56.279 --> 01:36:00.520
Denise, is just such an incredible
contribution. And I think you said that

959
01:36:00.600 --> 01:36:04.800
there's more to your study, that
this is just the first part of the

960
01:36:04.840 --> 01:36:10.920
study. Yes, this was the
first part. The second part is on

961
01:36:11.520 --> 01:36:18.600
commonalities in abduction experiences descriptions of ET
technology. So the only people who are

962
01:36:18.640 --> 01:36:24.439
able to fill this out of those
who have a fairly clear memory of their

963
01:36:24.520 --> 01:36:29.319
experience, how they're procured, how
they're taken on board the craft, what

964
01:36:29.520 --> 01:36:34.199
they observe on the craft, what
kind of procedures they undergo. It's that

965
01:36:34.560 --> 01:36:43.159
sort of thing. So I'm waiting. I have about I believe twenty eight

966
01:36:45.359 --> 01:36:49.560
questionnaires return to me right now.
I would really like to get fifty.

967
01:36:49.760 --> 01:36:56.840
So if there's anyone in the audience
listening who has this information, would you

968
01:36:56.880 --> 01:37:04.159
please go to my website Kathleen Hyphen
Martin m aar d N dot com.

969
01:37:04.239 --> 01:37:11.640
The questionnaire is there. There is
also an informed consent form, and I

970
01:37:11.640 --> 01:37:16.399
would certainly appreciate having that information so
that Denise and I can finish the second

971
01:37:16.439 --> 01:37:23.039
part of our study. Right that's
exciting, that sounds really interesting, And

972
01:37:23.079 --> 01:37:25.760
this is great because, like I
said, the only other study I remembered

973
01:37:25.800 --> 01:37:29.600
was doctor Leo Sprinkles, and his
was more of the along the lines of

974
01:37:29.800 --> 01:37:33.399
their kind of perceptions and their psychological
makeup. I think he was able to

975
01:37:33.439 --> 01:37:41.359
demonstrate that these abductees weren't prone to
fantasy anymore than any other person in the

976
01:37:41.439 --> 01:37:45.880
population, which was, of course
an important thing to point out. And

977
01:37:46.319 --> 01:37:49.600
one thing that always sticks with me
from his study is that a lot of

978
01:37:49.680 --> 01:37:57.640
people after their experiences believed in reincarnation
much more so than prior or people without

979
01:37:57.680 --> 01:38:02.600
the experiences. That was kind of
weird, yes, but people obtain a

980
01:38:02.640 --> 01:38:11.439
lot of knowledge when they're on these
cross and whether they can remember it or

981
01:38:11.479 --> 01:38:17.079
not, they seem to have suddenly
have information that they didn't have before.

982
01:38:18.840 --> 01:38:24.399
Well, thank you so much for
coming on the show and sharing this with

983
01:38:24.520 --> 01:38:27.920
us. I think this study is
just incredible. So, you know,

984
01:38:28.039 --> 01:38:31.319
like you said, you can find
the study also at Kathleen dash Martin dot

985
01:38:31.359 --> 01:38:38.279
com and there's it's in a pdf
and just like a lot of the best

986
01:38:39.000 --> 01:38:42.960
research out there, you know,
And so people can't argue that you're trying

987
01:38:42.960 --> 01:38:45.520
to make a buck, you know, they can go download anything from this

988
01:38:45.720 --> 01:38:51.880
report for free. That's correct,
you can, And I funded this myself.

989
01:38:53.680 --> 01:38:58.119
Well, thank you so much for
your work. This is really really

990
01:38:58.199 --> 01:39:04.800
great stuff and I'm very satisfying to
be searching for the answers and finding some

991
01:39:04.880 --> 01:39:09.720
of them. So it's been my
pleasure and my pleasure to be on your

992
01:39:09.760 --> 01:39:13.479
show as well. Thanks for having
me, all right, thank you.

993
01:39:15.520 --> 01:39:24.960
Kathleen is one cool lady. So
remember Kathleen Dashmartin dot com. Go there,

994
01:39:25.840 --> 01:39:30.520
download the study, read it,
get knowledge, be smart, and

995
01:39:30.760 --> 01:39:38.079
learn the more. So thank you
all very much for listening to the show.

996
01:39:38.640 --> 01:39:42.920
It's been an absolute pleasure to visit
with you and spend more time with

997
01:39:42.960 --> 01:39:45.600
you. And guess what, don't
be sad. Don't be sad. I

998
01:39:45.640 --> 01:39:48.800
know some of you're like, oh
no, this show's over. We got

999
01:39:48.920 --> 01:39:54.000
next week. We're coming at you
with another guest. We're gonna have more

1000
01:39:54.079 --> 01:40:44.840
fun. So until then, biku
noth