WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.080 --> 00:00:09.919 Joining us now is George Barna. This is a very familiar name to Christians. 2 00:00:09.960 --> 00:00:14.199 He has been He's the founder of the Barne Group, a market research 3 00:00:14.400 --> 00:00:19.239 firm that has specialized and looking at what is happening to our culture and to 4 00:00:19.600 --> 00:00:24.320 Christians in general, the intersection of faith and culture. He's been doing this 5 00:00:24.359 --> 00:00:26.640 for quite a while. He's written a lot of books, and he's got 6 00:00:26.640 --> 00:00:31.480 a new book now talking about perhaps what we can do about some of the 7 00:00:31.519 --> 00:00:37.320 worst problems and maybe they're really the core issue as to the direction that our 8 00:00:37.359 --> 00:00:41.600 country has been going down. So I want to talk to him about that 9 00:00:41.600 --> 00:00:45.679 book, but also kind of get an idea of what he has seen with 10 00:00:45.799 --> 00:00:50.320 a front row seat since the nineteen eighties in our country. Thank you for 11 00:00:50.399 --> 00:00:53.359 joining us, George Barner. Thank you for joining us. George. Yeah, 12 00:00:53.439 --> 00:00:56.280 thanks for having me on, David. Let's talk a little bit about 13 00:00:56.280 --> 00:01:00.520 that. Give people kind of we all see what is happening to our culture, 14 00:01:00.280 --> 00:01:03.519 this detachment for reality, this postmodernism, and all the rest of this 15 00:01:03.519 --> 00:01:08.159 stuff. But give us some metrics. Let's say that you would have seen 16 00:01:08.159 --> 00:01:14.959 as part of the Barna Group over the last few decades. Yeah, there 17 00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:18.120 have been a number of things that I've been tracking for about four decades. 18 00:01:18.200 --> 00:01:22.719 You know, one of those has to do with people's perspectives on truth. 19 00:01:23.599 --> 00:01:30.400 And what we've seen is a consistent deterioration of the notion that there is absolute 20 00:01:30.439 --> 00:01:34.000 moral truth, that there can be such a thing as absolute moral truth. 21 00:01:36.200 --> 00:01:38.840 So that's a big issue because when you take that out of the equation, 22 00:01:41.040 --> 00:01:44.599 you've got to go somewhere to get your understanding of reality. And rather than 23 00:01:44.680 --> 00:01:49.599 go and search for any kind of absolutes, what we do is we turn 24 00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:56.040 inward. And that's what's happened in America is now rather than say that we 25 00:01:56.159 --> 00:02:01.519 believe in God, basically what we do is we believe in ourselves. And 26 00:02:01.599 --> 00:02:07.360 so that's that's a big game changer right there as well, where we've seen 27 00:02:07.400 --> 00:02:13.360 a huge increase in the proportion of what I would call the don'ts, people 28 00:02:13.400 --> 00:02:16.759 who don't believe God exists, don't know if he exists, don't care if 29 00:02:16.800 --> 00:02:23.120 he exists. And you know, we're basically with our young adults, people 30 00:02:23.280 --> 00:02:28.960 under fifty, they represent close to a third of the population now, so 31 00:02:29.080 --> 00:02:35.080 that's a massive shift. We've seen a big shift in our morals, the 32 00:02:35.120 --> 00:02:38.319 basis of our morals. Of course, if there's no absolute moral truth, 33 00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:46.080 on what basis do we determine morality? Again, it's our feelings, And 34 00:02:46.159 --> 00:02:51.919 so that's a big shift. And now we're at a place where most Americans 35 00:02:52.560 --> 00:03:00.280 are confused about most major moral issues, whether we're talking about abortion, whether 36 00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:08.919 we're talking about divorce, whether we're talking about homosexuality, transgenderism, basis of 37 00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:15.680 personal identity, all of that has seen major shifts in the last ten to 38 00:03:15.719 --> 00:03:23.080 fifteen years. I would say that we're a society now that really gears itself 39 00:03:23.120 --> 00:03:30.520 towards trying to achieve happiness. And that's the major goal of most Americans. 40 00:03:31.120 --> 00:03:36.159 We want to be happy. We do what we can to ensure that our 41 00:03:36.240 --> 00:03:40.800 children will be happy. Like that, and then, of course you have 42 00:03:40.840 --> 00:03:45.120 to ask, well, why did all of these shifts take place? And 43 00:03:45.199 --> 00:03:53.360 so much of it is because of the influence and exposure to media, particularly 44 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:59.159 arts and entertainment media. And what I've found in the research that I've been 45 00:03:59.159 --> 00:04:04.400 doing is that the greatest influence on our worldview the kinds of decisions that we 46 00:04:04.560 --> 00:04:13.520 make comes from media influence. So whether it's movies or television, or social 47 00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:20.360 media or video games or whatever, media you'd choose that's having more influence than 48 00:04:20.600 --> 00:04:26.560 everything else combined in our lives as best I can tell, even education, 49 00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:30.079 you would say, yeah, even more of the Well, yeah, well 50 00:04:30.199 --> 00:04:33.480 it certainly is visceral. And if people are just going to turn inward to 51 00:04:33.519 --> 00:04:35.839 their feelings, that's what they're going to pick up on. You know, 52 00:04:35.879 --> 00:04:42.480 it's kind of interesting as we look at this detachment from any idea of objective 53 00:04:42.519 --> 00:04:46.319 truth. It's gotten so bad that it reflects in our inability to even do 54 00:04:46.519 --> 00:04:50.279 or care about math or anything else like that. And you know, even 55 00:04:50.399 --> 00:04:55.439 our gender, our biological gender, we don't have anything that is objective. 56 00:04:55.480 --> 00:04:59.240 Everything is subjective and whatever you want it to be. Even now we've got 57 00:04:59.319 --> 00:05:02.399 kids who are seeing up as furries. I mean, it's getting to an 58 00:05:02.439 --> 00:05:06.560 extreme that you know, all of my life I would have looked at this 59 00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:10.160 and said, this is a parody. This can't be real. It is 60 00:05:10.199 --> 00:05:13.040 like something out of Babylon Bee. But that's the reality that we live in 61 00:05:13.120 --> 00:05:16.279 right now, isn't it. It really is. And so when you make 62 00:05:16.399 --> 00:05:25.240 your feelings the basis of your reality, you know, the whole game changes, 63 00:05:25.920 --> 00:05:34.519 And so trying to reason with people becomes exceedingly difficult because Americans are less 64 00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:44.279 and less willing to consider, much less accept facts. An empirical argument doesn't 65 00:05:44.319 --> 00:05:46.920 have much of a basis in America today. Yeah, and that's really going 66 00:05:47.000 --> 00:05:50.079 to tear our society apart in every regard me, how do you even do 67 00:05:50.160 --> 00:05:57.160 science or engineering? It really was the understanding that there is a discoverable reality, 68 00:05:57.199 --> 00:06:01.480 a discoverable truth that came. We had a lot of foundational scientists who 69 00:06:01.480 --> 00:06:06.720 were coming from that Christian perspective, Francis Bacon and many others, Isaac Newton, 70 00:06:06.759 --> 00:06:11.360 we can discover God's truth. There is a reality here. Now we've 71 00:06:11.519 --> 00:06:14.759 taken God out of the equation, and we've taken reality out of the equation. 72 00:06:15.199 --> 00:06:17.759 And so it's going to affect everything. Even in our material society. 73 00:06:18.279 --> 00:06:23.680 The things that people are looking at to make them happy and comfortable, those 74 00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:27.199 things are going to disappear as well, because everything is hinged to that. 75 00:06:27.439 --> 00:06:31.240 Tell us a little bit about you coined some words that some phrases in terms 76 00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:39.120 of looking at this spirittainment that's entertainment based there as well as a spiritual I 77 00:06:39.160 --> 00:06:43.040 guess tell us little bit about that and why you coined that word. Well, 78 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:47.759 there was a time a couple decades ago when there seemed to be a 79 00:06:47.839 --> 00:06:55.920 movement to really try to integrate faith into entertainment, particularly the Christian faith into 80 00:06:56.079 --> 00:07:03.279 entertainment. And so that term is blending of spirituality and entertainment, recognizing that 81 00:07:03.800 --> 00:07:11.920 every entertainment vehicle conveys a worldview, and at that point in time, there 82 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:18.040 seemed to be some momentum growing for the Christian excuse me, the biblical worldview 83 00:07:18.639 --> 00:07:25.600 being ingrained in more entertainment vehicles, particularly movies and television, but also an 84 00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:32.480 increasing amount of online entertainment, streamed entertainment that seems now to have diminished over 85 00:07:32.480 --> 00:07:36.959 the last decade or so. That momentum that had been building up seemed to 86 00:07:38.040 --> 00:07:44.680 fall off. So that phrase never really picked up much momentum, just as 87 00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:49.000 that approached entertainment development never picked up. It could be kind of applied to 88 00:07:49.160 --> 00:07:53.600 what we see in some of the big megachurches that have fog machines everywhere. 89 00:07:54.199 --> 00:07:57.720 I always thought that the fog machine with it all the contemporary worship was kind 90 00:07:57.720 --> 00:08:01.120 of a metaphor of something that was that in those churches. But you know, 91 00:08:01.160 --> 00:08:05.639 they tried to pursue that entertainment aspect of it and you know, it 92 00:08:05.639 --> 00:08:09.199 didn't work out too well. I think it is. We've had a couple 93 00:08:09.240 --> 00:08:13.439 of recent successes, and perhaps there will be some new movement. It's hard 94 00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:16.920 to win a culture war if you don't have a culture, if you don't 95 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:20.639 engage to them in certain ways, and so, you know, we've had 96 00:08:20.680 --> 00:08:22.439 some fairly successful movies in the last couple of months. I don't know if 97 00:08:22.439 --> 00:08:24.199 that's going to be a trend or not. It's too soon to tell, 98 00:08:24.240 --> 00:08:30.040 isn't it. I think it is. I think we'll probably always have one 99 00:08:30.120 --> 00:08:37.799 or two current examples of Christian based entertainment that do well because there still remains 100 00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:45.000 in our culture a pretty significant number people who really wrap their lives around their 101 00:08:45.080 --> 00:08:50.639 Christian faith. And so when those kinds of media vehicles are released, yes 102 00:08:50.679 --> 00:08:56.919 they'll find that audience. But in terms of building greater attentiveness and a greater 103 00:08:56.159 --> 00:09:01.759 appetite for that kind of entertainment, I don't think that's been done effectively, 104 00:09:01.799 --> 00:09:05.200 and we're not at a point where it appears that we can sustain that right 105 00:09:05.240 --> 00:09:09.840 now. Yeah, it's going to be interesting because the other the standard Hollywood 106 00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:15.879 stuff has gotten so dark and so nihilistic that it's kind of collapsing and of 107 00:09:15.919 --> 00:09:20.080 itself. It's not really entertaining anymore. And you know, with what happened 108 00:09:20.080 --> 00:09:22.759 with the shutdowns of movie theaters and everything, I think they've had a hard 109 00:09:22.759 --> 00:09:28.759 time coming back, and it's just it's kind of just feeding on itself and 110 00:09:28.840 --> 00:09:33.039 there's not really any creativity there. It seems like there's a real vacuum in 111 00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:37.639 that area. But who knows what will happen with that, which brings us 112 00:09:37.639 --> 00:09:41.159 to another one of the terms that you coined, sage cons. Tell us 113 00:09:41.159 --> 00:09:46.440 a little bit about that. Yeah, that's an acronym for spiritually active governance. 114 00:09:46.600 --> 00:09:54.360 Engaged conservative Christians. Age cons represent somewhere around eight nine, maybe ten 115 00:09:54.440 --> 00:10:01.440 percent of the adult population in America. And these are individual rules whose lives 116 00:10:01.559 --> 00:10:07.840 are driven by their Christian faith. And one of the unique characteristics about them 117 00:10:07.919 --> 00:10:11.759 is that they're very tuned into politics, not because they care about it, 118 00:10:11.879 --> 00:10:18.000 not because they have a natural inclination toward it, but because they recognize that 119 00:10:18.039 --> 00:10:24.799 their faith in Christ calls them to be involved in every dimension of society and 120 00:10:24.879 --> 00:10:28.240 to try to influence it for the cause of Christ. And so government is 121 00:10:28.399 --> 00:10:33.200 just one of those arenas. But the result of that is that they not 122 00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:39.320 only pay more attention to news and information about politics and government, but they 123 00:10:39.399 --> 00:10:46.120 vote every chance they get, and they really try to understand the issues more 124 00:10:46.159 --> 00:10:50.960 than the average American would. And you'd say that is that increasing or decreasing? 125 00:10:52.639 --> 00:10:56.039 What you've seen lately, are getting more or less sage cons. Right, 126 00:10:56.360 --> 00:11:01.759 it's been stable for the last five years years or so, But as 127 00:11:01.799 --> 00:11:05.360 we look forward and project to what's going to happen in the population, we 128 00:11:05.480 --> 00:11:11.320 expect that number to be on the decline unless there is some kind of an 129 00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:16.919 awakening, spiritual awakening that's Bible base, that takes place in America in the 130 00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:22.840 next decade or so. We don't see that on the horizon, but you 131 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:26.000 never know when the Holy Spirit's going to bring that kind of out pouring of 132 00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:28.000 faith. That's right. Yeah, that's what it's dependent upon. Now. 133 00:11:28.039 --> 00:11:31.000 So you're looking at you know, the sage cons. They are going to 134 00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:35.879 be adults, probably a bit older. But as I said, you've been 135 00:11:35.879 --> 00:11:39.159 doing this since the nineteen eighties and a couple of decades ago you kind of 136 00:11:39.159 --> 00:11:45.080 had an epiphany about what was really missing in terms of turning towards focusing on 137 00:11:45.159 --> 00:11:48.440 children. Tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, Well, I've 138 00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:50.960 been doing a lot of research and continue to do a lot of research through 139 00:11:50.960 --> 00:12:00.840 the Cultural Research Center on worldview and what's There are a number of startling things 140 00:12:00.879 --> 00:12:07.000 I think about worldview in America, one of which is how few Americans have 141 00:12:07.120 --> 00:12:11.679 a biblical worldview. It's four percent among adults right now, even less among 142 00:12:11.720 --> 00:12:16.200 young people, in spite of the fact that sixty eight percent of Americans consider 143 00:12:16.279 --> 00:12:22.000 themselves to be Christian. So there's a huge disconnect there. But a couple 144 00:12:22.120 --> 00:12:30.240 decades ago, as we were looking at some of the details of this, 145 00:12:30.639 --> 00:12:35.960 what we found is that a person's worldview begins developing between eight fifteen to eighteen 146 00:12:35.000 --> 00:12:39.200 months of age and thirteen years of age. At the age of thirteen, 147 00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:43.080 a person's worldview is almost fully developed. Tell us a little bit before we 148 00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:48.120 go, tell us your definition of a worldview there so we I mean, 149 00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:50.279 it's kind of self explanatory, but maybe got something more specific, And then 150 00:12:50.320 --> 00:12:54.720 tell us what you would say a biblical worldview is? Sure, Yeah, 151 00:12:54.799 --> 00:13:00.240 everybody has a worldview. You need one to get through the day. As 152 00:13:00.440 --> 00:13:05.679 you make hundreds and hundreds of decisions every day, you need a basis on 153 00:13:05.840 --> 00:13:11.240 which to make those decisions. And that's what your worldview is. It's the 154 00:13:11.320 --> 00:13:18.759 intellectual, emotional, and spiritual filter through which you make every choice that you 155 00:13:18.879 --> 00:13:24.000 make. It's the basis on which you make the decisions. So it's based 156 00:13:24.159 --> 00:13:31.279 on your core beliefs about the world, about yourself, about life, and 157 00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:37.919 all of your behaviors come from those beliefs. And so the idea here is 158 00:13:37.120 --> 00:13:43.639 you do what you believe. So I do research, and a lot of 159 00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:46.320 people tell me they believe a lot of things. But I've learned that I 160 00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:52.159 can't just take that at face value. If you tell me you believe something, 161 00:13:52.440 --> 00:13:56.600 then I have to find some behavioral evidence that you actually do believe that, 162 00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:01.639 Because a lot of people say they believe a lot of things, but 163 00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:07.840 there's no evidence that that's the truth. You know, they act in contrast 164 00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:13.039 to what they say they believe. So your worldview is the conjunction of those 165 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:16.399 two things, what you say you believe and what you do to prove that 166 00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:22.360 you believe it. And so there are dozens of worldviews that people can choose 167 00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:26.799 from. One of those is what we call the biblical worldview. Now, 168 00:14:26.840 --> 00:14:33.159 the biblical worldview is based on biblical principles and precepts, those kinds of teachings 169 00:14:33.200 --> 00:14:37.279 that we get from Jesus, those kinds of principles that are laid out for 170 00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:41.120 us in the scriptures. And when I say only four percent of adults have 171 00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:48.480 a biblical worldview, that means that only four percent of adults consistently believe what 172 00:14:48.519 --> 00:14:54.440 the Bible teaches and then display that in their lifestyle. Why does that matter 173 00:14:54.440 --> 00:14:58.159 from a Christian point of view? It matters because we've been called to be 174 00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:03.799 disciples of Jesus, and what that means is that we're going to be christ 175 00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:09.759 Like. You demonstrate your Christ's likeness through your behavior, but you've got to 176 00:15:09.799 --> 00:15:16.039 have Biblical beliefs in order to have those behaviors. So that's how all those 177 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:20.360 things fit together. What we find is that about ninety two percent of Americans 178 00:15:20.919 --> 00:15:28.559 are syncretists, and what that means is that we've chosen not a single worldview, 179 00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:35.399 whether it's the Biblical worldview, postmodernism, Eastern mysticism, nihilism. You 180 00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:39.080 know, there are many different world views to choose from. But what we 181 00:15:39.159 --> 00:15:43.960 do as a syncretist is we say, I don't buy any of those lockstock 182 00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:48.639 and barrel. I'm just going to pick a few things that they believe that 183 00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:52.720 I like, they make sense to me, and I'm going to combine them 184 00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:58.720 with a few beliefs from other world views as well. So, in other 185 00:15:58.759 --> 00:16:03.799 words, as a syncrety, you'll buy into postmodernism, you'll buy into secular 186 00:16:03.879 --> 00:16:08.440 humanism, you'll buy into Marxism, you'll buy into Eastern mysticsm on and on 187 00:16:08.600 --> 00:16:15.679 down the line, taking bits and pieces from each of those and crafting a 188 00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:22.000 customized worldview that makes you happy, makes you comfortable, and gets you tracks 189 00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:23.360 to run on. Yeah, I kind of do it o la carte, 190 00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:27.279 right, very much. So, Yeah, that fits in with all the 191 00:16:27.279 --> 00:16:33.039 postmodernism as well. So you were talking about children and you said they start 192 00:16:33.080 --> 00:16:36.559 forming that worldview at what about fifteen months, just a little bit before Toddler, 193 00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:40.120 and then it goes up to thirteen. That's kind of interesting because so 194 00:16:40.200 --> 00:16:45.039 many societies have you know, looked at thirteen years old as the beginning of 195 00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:48.080 manhood or womanhood, you know, barmits for whatever. And that's not just 196 00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:52.559 in the Jewish society, it's in many many societies. At thirteen it's an 197 00:16:52.559 --> 00:16:57.879 interesting, interesting age. But we see that over and over again. Yeah, 198 00:16:57.919 --> 00:17:02.240 and of course over the court of decades, we've had a lot of 199 00:17:02.279 --> 00:17:06.519 political leaders who, as they've been trying to figure out how can I stay 200 00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:11.079 empower for a longer period of time, have made statements about give me a 201 00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:14.400 child until they're seven and all rule of the world, you know, and 202 00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:18.599 give me a young person until they're nine and they'll be mine for life, 203 00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:23.839 you know. So you've had people from Aristotle on down to Hitler and Stalin 204 00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:30.279 and Mao and Mussolini who have made those same kind of pronouncements for different purposes, 205 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:36.920 but they've recognized the importance of childhood. The Catholic Church over the course 206 00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:42.000 of centuries has made similar kinds of pronouncements recognizing that importance. And that's why 207 00:17:42.039 --> 00:17:48.160 you have, you know, Catholic education being such an important thing in the 208 00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:52.240 Catholic world. And so we've really dropped the ball on Yeah, I think 209 00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:55.160 we've really dropped the ball on that, you know, train up a child 210 00:17:55.160 --> 00:17:56.480 and the way he should go when he's older. I'm not depart from it, 211 00:17:56.559 --> 00:18:00.839 right, that's you know Hitler understood. Oh, it's that children don't 212 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:04.440 understand that, right, I mean Christians don't understand that certly. And you 213 00:18:04.480 --> 00:18:08.279 go back to the early chapters of the Bible. You go back to Deteronomy 214 00:18:08.400 --> 00:18:14.839 six, and you've got a classic teaching there to Jewish families about you know 215 00:18:14.920 --> 00:18:19.079 what, it's your responsibility, parents, to take on the education of your 216 00:18:19.160 --> 00:18:23.000 children. So talk to them when you have the opportunity, when you're out 217 00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:27.480 on the road, when you're having dinner, when you're spending free time together. 218 00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:30.880 You know, write these things on your foreheads, you know, post 219 00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:34.680 them on your wrists, put them over your door, post the things that 220 00:18:34.759 --> 00:18:40.039 matter. Make sure that you're always conversing to your children about these And I 221 00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:44.160 would say, yeah, that's certainly something that we in the Christian community in 222 00:18:44.279 --> 00:18:48.359 contemporary America have dropped. Yes, yes, yeah. When we homeschool our 223 00:18:48.440 --> 00:18:52.440 kids, they required us to create a name for our school, and so 224 00:18:52.559 --> 00:18:53.960 so, well, let's call it the Parapetus Academy, because we'll do it 225 00:18:53.960 --> 00:18:56.960 parapetically. You know, we'll walk along with them in the way, in 226 00:18:57.000 --> 00:19:00.920 the same way that Jesus would do his disciples, and we'll point out, 227 00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:03.119 as we're going through a life with them, the good and the bad of 228 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:07.759 this and that, and try to put it in a perspective that understand as 229 00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:11.400 Christians. Well, yeah, and you know, that's one of the beautiful 230 00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:18.119 things about homeschooling is that you get to build that relationship with your children wherein 231 00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:22.480 they come to trust you and you can have conversations on such a wide range 232 00:19:22.519 --> 00:19:30.839 of activities that both relate to academic subjects and that don't relate to academic subjects 233 00:19:30.119 --> 00:19:34.920 but relate to real life. And so, as we've done our research over 234 00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:40.519 the past couple of years, in particular, we found that homeschool children are 235 00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:45.039 the ones who are most likely to grow up to have a biblical worldview. 236 00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:49.359 And it's precisely because parents have the luxury, if you will, of that 237 00:19:49.559 --> 00:19:56.319 time spent with their children looking at every aspect of life, not just worrying 238 00:19:56.359 --> 00:20:00.319 about addition and subtraction, but really trying to figure out what are the important 239 00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:06.359 life principles that I can convey to my children, sometimes through an academic subject, 240 00:20:06.599 --> 00:20:11.240 sometimes not. Yes, yes, and they have sacrificed to do that, 241 00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:14.960 but it's that very interaction that they have with the kids that is the 242 00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:18.640 true reward. So it is kind of an interesting way that this works itself 243 00:20:18.680 --> 00:20:23.880 out if you've got your prioriti straight. So from fifteen months to thirteen years 244 00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:34.079 they're establishing their worldview, and then what happens well during the teen years and 245 00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:38.160 through maybe the mid twenties or so. What we find is that it's a 246 00:20:38.200 --> 00:20:44.079 period of time where, now that the worldview has been developed, young people 247 00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:48.240 are trying to figure out how to articulate it, how to implement it, 248 00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:53.039 how to refine it so that it works most effectively for them in any given 249 00:20:53.200 --> 00:20:59.480 situation. In the course of that period of time, that fifteen year period 250 00:20:59.559 --> 00:21:06.400 or so, they're also sometimes changing some of their worldview, beliefs and behaviors 251 00:21:07.039 --> 00:21:11.359 based on the ways that they're trying to articulate and implement it. But then 252 00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:15.960 what we find is from the late twenties on through sometime in the sixties, 253 00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:25.160 typically people just accept what they've developed during those earlier years and they actually become 254 00:21:25.160 --> 00:21:30.599 evangelists. Most Americans, though, don't evangelize for Jesus. They evangelize for 255 00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:33.759 themselves. What they're trying to do is to get other people to buy into 256 00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:41.119 their beliefs and behaviors, because if somebody else embraces your worldviewer elements of it, 257 00:21:41.599 --> 00:21:48.240 you feel better about yourself. You feel like you've proven that you got 258 00:21:48.279 --> 00:21:52.599 it right. And then when we get into our mid to late sixties, 259 00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:56.599 that then becomes the final worldview era of our life, when we sit back 260 00:21:56.640 --> 00:22:00.559 and examine how we did We asked the question, gee, did we get 261 00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:06.119 it right? Could we have done it better? And at that stage most 262 00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:10.599 of us I'm in that stage. Now, you know, we're grandparents or 263 00:22:11.079 --> 00:22:15.519 some of my you know peers are great grandparents, and so we're thinking about, 264 00:22:15.559 --> 00:22:19.839 okay, with our grandchildren and great grandchildren, should we be teaching and 265 00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:26.359 preaching and modeling something different than we had earlier in our life because now we 266 00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:29.759 can see, yeah, we kind of blew it in this aspect of our 267 00:22:29.799 --> 00:22:33.680 worldview, we still have a chance to get it right and to pass that 268 00:22:33.799 --> 00:22:37.440 on. Yeah, that's a very interesting perspective. There's four stages there. 269 00:22:37.160 --> 00:22:40.440 Now, your newest book, and you've written about fifty books. At your 270 00:22:40.519 --> 00:22:45.599 newest one, which just came out Labor Day, is raising spiritual champions, 271 00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:49.400 nurturing your child's heart, mind and spirit. Tell us a little bit about 272 00:22:49.960 --> 00:22:56.480 the book and the message that it's giving people in terms of you know, 273 00:22:56.519 --> 00:23:00.599 how do you do this? Everybody's looking for how to book, but bigger, 274 00:23:00.680 --> 00:23:03.480 you know, a larger perspective I'm sure is what's involved in It's not 275 00:23:03.559 --> 00:23:06.680 just a step by step program. But tell us a little bit about that 276 00:23:06.680 --> 00:23:11.839 book. Well, the book is based on seven original research projects that we 277 00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:18.079 did across the nation trying to understand parents and churches and adolescents and teenagers. 278 00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:23.440 We even did a study, a content analysis study of the most popular media 279 00:23:23.519 --> 00:23:30.559 that children are exposed to. The television programs they watch consistently, some of 280 00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:36.359 the streaming programs they consistently are exposed to, those types of things. What 281 00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:40.119 I was trying to do in the book was to give us an understanding of 282 00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:45.680 what's happening in parenting today. What does the Bible exhort us to do as 283 00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:52.279 parents, and how can we get closer to that biblical model of parenting given 284 00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:57.519 the existing culture in which we're being called to raise our children. So it's 285 00:23:57.720 --> 00:24:03.480 kind of a full orb of the approach to understanding all this why because as 286 00:24:03.559 --> 00:24:07.640 parents, we have the primary responsibility to raise up our children and how are 287 00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:11.240 we supposed to raise them. We're supposed to help them to become disciples of 288 00:24:11.319 --> 00:24:17.480 Jesus Christ. So the book is geared toward helping parents understand what does it 289 00:24:17.559 --> 00:24:21.880 mean to be a disciple. How do you disciple a young person? How 290 00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:26.200 do we know if we're doing that well? What are churches that are doing 291 00:24:26.200 --> 00:24:29.440 it well doing? Because I want to be part of that kind of church. 292 00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:32.759 Most churches are not doing it well, as it turns out, but 293 00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:36.880 we found out that there are some that are doing it properly, inappropriately and 294 00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:41.559 effectively. What kind of church should you look for there? And you know, 295 00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:45.000 ultimately, how do you know when you're hitting the ball out of the 296 00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:49.119 park that's great? Give us an example of something that you see that is 297 00:24:49.160 --> 00:24:56.480 in contrast to what is a good practice a biblical practice versus what is a 298 00:24:56.519 --> 00:25:03.839 common practice with parenting well, a common parenting practice in America today I characterize 299 00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:10.880 as outsourcing. And as I did the research, I discovered it's not with 300 00:25:11.079 --> 00:25:15.079 mal and tend that parents are throwing up their hands and say, I don't 301 00:25:15.079 --> 00:25:18.720 have the time and I don't have the expertise to do this. It's because 302 00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:22.079 they love their children so much that they're saying, I don't have the time 303 00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:26.079 and I don't have the expertise, So let me do the best thing I 304 00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:30.640 can for them, which is hire experts that I'm that I want to bring 305 00:25:30.680 --> 00:25:33.599 in and let them raise my child for me. And so what we do 306 00:25:33.720 --> 00:25:37.960 is we bring in experts in education, tutors, we bring in experts in 307 00:25:38.200 --> 00:25:45.400 athletics, coaches, we bring in experts and spirituality, children's pastors, we 308 00:25:45.519 --> 00:25:51.319 bring in experts in various hobbies and extra curricular activities, you know, all 309 00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:56.799 of these experts that we hire to do what we feel I'm really not sufficiently 310 00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:00.200 first to know how to do it, and I'm working hard to make the 311 00:26:00.279 --> 00:26:03.359 money to hire these people. So i don't have the time to do it. 312 00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:10.240 And I've got other interests than my children that I feel I need to 313 00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:14.640 engage in for some kind of self care, you know, get myself a 314 00:26:14.680 --> 00:26:18.799 break, lower my anxiety levels. That's why I don't have the time. 315 00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:22.160 So that's the way that parents are approaching it now. The biblical model is 316 00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:29.640 actually quite different. The Biblical model says, when you have children under the 317 00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:34.440 age of thirteen, this is a season of sacrifice for you. So get 318 00:26:34.599 --> 00:26:41.759 used to maybe not working as many hours, get used to not doing everything 319 00:26:41.839 --> 00:26:45.599 you can to get the promotion, to get the raise, you know, 320 00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:48.240 to start your own company, to do whatever the things that are going to 321 00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:52.039 take the most time and energy and effort on your part. This is the 322 00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:59.960 time where you put most of your energy and effort and expertise into raising up 323 00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:04.839 your child to be a follower of Jesus. And so your schedule is going 324 00:27:04.839 --> 00:27:10.440 to look very different, and in fact, what you do during the day 325 00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:15.799 is going to look different. Number One, you've got to have a plan 326 00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:23.559 for how you spiritually develop your child. If that's your chief goal during these 327 00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:30.720 years, don't go about it willy nilly, just haphazardly hoping that something good 328 00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:33.079 is going to happen with their faith. And maybe if you just bring them 329 00:27:33.079 --> 00:27:37.960 to church services often enough and church events, it's all going to work. 330 00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:41.960 It's not the church's job, it's your job. The church is there to 331 00:27:41.119 --> 00:27:45.319 support you as you do that, and that's the kind of church, by 332 00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:48.599 the way, that you need to be looking for when you talk more about 333 00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:52.720 that. But it's on your shoulders to be doing that task, and so 334 00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:57.680 you've got to have a plan. It doesn't happen by default. People do 335 00:27:57.799 --> 00:28:03.440 not become decipleples of Jesus by accident. And with your children during those first 336 00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:08.759 thirteen years, the foundations that you put in place or don't put in place 337 00:28:10.200 --> 00:28:17.079 are what's going to determine to the largest extent whether or not they ever become 338 00:28:17.119 --> 00:28:21.160 disciples of Christ. Yeah, that's very true. You know, when I 339 00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:27.119 have talked for a long time to people about homeschooling, what I frequently what 340 00:28:27.160 --> 00:28:30.680 I hear from them is I just don't feel qualified enough, just as what 341 00:28:30.680 --> 00:28:33.559 you're talking about. They're trying to outsource this to somebody else that they feel 342 00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:36.200 is going to do a better job with math or this. And of course, 343 00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:40.000 you know, you can pull in there's so many experts that are available 344 00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:42.880 but have classes on this that you can pull that in and they can do 345 00:28:42.920 --> 00:28:45.880 that, or you can set up some kind of a co op thing or 346 00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:51.480 something like that. But it really is born out of this feeling that they're 347 00:28:51.519 --> 00:28:53.960 not up to the task. And we would always tell people, you only 348 00:28:53.960 --> 00:28:56.559 got to keep a couple of steps ahead of this kid, even if you 349 00:28:56.599 --> 00:29:00.039 didn't do well in school, you just got to keep a couple of lessons 350 00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:03.920 ahead of them, and you might learn some stuff that you never learned in 351 00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:07.039 school because you didn't like school. And you know, but the key thing 352 00:29:07.160 --> 00:29:11.599 is from a Christian perspective, is that God gave you these kids, and 353 00:29:11.640 --> 00:29:17.640 so he also gave you the ability to do what is necessary, and I 354 00:29:17.680 --> 00:29:21.279 think that's the key thing, and it's that that relationship that is there that 355 00:29:21.400 --> 00:29:23.599 is lost. As you point out, that's a great term outsourcing it to 356 00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:27.039 other people because you think other people can do a better job of this or 357 00:29:27.079 --> 00:29:30.960 that, and then you miss that time with a kid. You spend all 358 00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:36.000 your time doing shuffling them from one of these activities, from one expert to 359 00:29:36.039 --> 00:29:40.039 another, and you know, you just become kind of a soccer mom type 360 00:29:40.039 --> 00:29:44.680 of facilitator or chauffeur. You don't really ever have that time with them. 361 00:29:44.720 --> 00:29:48.319 I've seen that as well as I've been growing up. That is an excellent 362 00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:52.160 way to describe it, outsourcing. I think tell us I'm sorry, go 363 00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:55.839 ahead, you know, and just to tag onto that one of the great 364 00:29:55.960 --> 00:30:02.279 dangers of outsourcing is that often those people are in producing different worldview perspectives to 365 00:30:02.319 --> 00:30:06.599 your children than you want them to have. So they might be a great 366 00:30:06.640 --> 00:30:11.200 soccer coach, but there may be things about anger and about treating other people, 367 00:30:11.720 --> 00:30:17.000 and thoughts about money, you know, growing up to be a professional 368 00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:21.759 soccer. But I mean all these other ideas that are being introduced to your 369 00:30:21.839 --> 00:30:26.680 children that are ones that the Bible might not agree with. And so when 370 00:30:26.680 --> 00:30:32.799 you hand your children over to these other authority figures, you're handing over your 371 00:30:33.079 --> 00:30:37.759 authority at the same time. And that's a great danger. Yes, that 372 00:30:37.880 --> 00:30:40.440 is really true. Yeah you want it. That's how we get the the 373 00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:45.599 Oli Kart syncretism right exactly, with all these different forces that are there. 374 00:30:45.079 --> 00:30:48.279 You were talking about church, and so you know what, what kind of 375 00:30:48.359 --> 00:30:52.200 church is a good church that's going to support the parents. So many times 376 00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:57.640 I look at churches and they have so many activities that they've got set up. 377 00:30:57.640 --> 00:31:03.119 And I often think about to a cruise that I went on with our 378 00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:07.039 family. It was Karen's parents fiftieth anniversary and want to take everybody on a 379 00:31:07.079 --> 00:31:11.480 cruise. It was a Disney cruise and we get on there and yeah, 380 00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:12.880 this is a family cruise. So it's like, okay, what activities do 381 00:31:12.920 --> 00:31:15.400 you have for the family. Well, we'll put a bracelet on the kids 382 00:31:15.400 --> 00:31:18.519 and we'll take them over here, and we got all kinds of stuff and 383 00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:21.279 then you know, you can do these things. And it's like, no, 384 00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:22.000 no, what do you have for us to do together? They didn't 385 00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:25.440 have anything for us to do together. They said well, nobody has asked 386 00:31:25.519 --> 00:31:29.519 us about that before. Yeah, you take this family cruise and you could 387 00:31:29.799 --> 00:31:33.759 outsoarche your kids over here to be entertained and babysit and whatever, and then 388 00:31:33.759 --> 00:31:36.000 you could go do these other activities. And it's like, no, you 389 00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:38.200 don't want to do that, but it tells it. And so when I 390 00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:42.359 look at churches, many times I see that type of thing happening in the 391 00:31:42.480 --> 00:31:47.680 churches. What is the kind of church that is most effective at supporting parents 392 00:31:47.680 --> 00:31:51.799 and their task. Yeah, one of the things that I try to get 393 00:31:51.960 --> 00:31:55.240 Christian parents to do, or any parents really if they're getting engaged with the 394 00:31:55.319 --> 00:31:59.400 church, is they're recognuys you know what, the single most important ministry in 395 00:31:59.440 --> 00:32:04.240 the entire church is the ministry to children. Because if what we're there to 396 00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:10.160 do is to build up somebody's faith, develop that faith, reinforce that faith, 397 00:32:10.720 --> 00:32:16.119 release that faith into the world. All of the foundations for that happened 398 00:32:16.119 --> 00:32:21.799 before the age of thirteen, and so what's going on in the children's ministry 399 00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:25.039 is the single most important ministry in the church. So when you go to 400 00:32:25.079 --> 00:32:28.720 a church, don't go they're saying, Gee, I hope they make me 401 00:32:28.920 --> 00:32:31.920 happy. You know, I mean, frankly, what our research has found 402 00:32:31.960 --> 00:32:36.759 for the last forty years is that adults don't change. You know, so 403 00:32:37.279 --> 00:32:39.039 you're going to go in believe in what you believe, You're going to come 404 00:32:39.039 --> 00:32:44.319 out pretty much believe in the same thing. We did a longitudinal study track 405 00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:50.839 people over thirty plus years and found that the worldview adults doesn't change. Most 406 00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:54.400 Americans die with the same worldview that they had at the age of thirteen. 407 00:32:55.279 --> 00:32:59.720 And so, you know, let's look at that children's ministry. What do 408 00:32:59.720 --> 00:33:02.480 you want look at Number one, take a look at the children's pastor. 409 00:33:04.480 --> 00:33:07.480 One of the pieces of research that we did for this book was with pastors 410 00:33:07.480 --> 00:33:14.000 across the country. What we discovered is that seven out of every eight children's 411 00:33:14.079 --> 00:33:20.000 pastors do not have a biblical worldview. You can't get what you don't have. 412 00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:23.960 Yeah, and so when children are going to seven out of eight children's 413 00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:30.440 ministries, they're not going to be taught biblical truth. They're going to be 414 00:33:30.519 --> 00:33:35.200 taught stuff. What that satisfies the needs of the ministry. What are the 415 00:33:35.240 --> 00:33:37.359 needs of that ministry? Well, parents are saying, you know what, 416 00:33:37.480 --> 00:33:42.680 I want my child to be safe, I want my child to be happy, 417 00:33:43.240 --> 00:33:45.920 I want my child to be around some good kids, and I want 418 00:33:45.960 --> 00:33:51.279 them to be exposed to some kind of religious teaching. And that's about as 419 00:33:51.319 --> 00:33:53.799 far as it goes. You know. We know when we talk with senior 420 00:33:53.880 --> 00:33:59.880 pastors across the country again a majority of whom do not have a biblical worldview. 421 00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:02.480 We asked them, how do you know if your church is healthy and 422 00:34:02.519 --> 00:34:07.200 successful? They said, oh, we measure five things. How many people 423 00:34:07.279 --> 00:34:09.559 show up, how much money's raised, how many programs we offer, how 424 00:34:09.559 --> 00:34:14.599 many staff people we get to hire, how much square footage we've built out. 425 00:34:14.840 --> 00:34:16.239 Look, I'm a measurement guy, so I'm glad they're measuring something. 426 00:34:16.280 --> 00:34:20.679 But as a measurement guy, I know you get what you measure. Yeah, 427 00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:24.000 So when those are your measures, what you're going to get is a 428 00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:30.880 megachurch, a place that's well marketed. But keep in mind that Jesus didn't 429 00:34:30.920 --> 00:34:35.039 die for any of those five things, so those shouldn't be the key measures 430 00:34:35.079 --> 00:34:38.239 that we're looking at. So when you're looking for a children's ministry, look 431 00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:44.880 for this stuff that matters to Jesus, Because if it matters to Jesus and 432 00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:47.239 it matters to the church, that's what they're going to be sharing with your 433 00:34:47.320 --> 00:34:53.719 child. Oh, that's great advice. So you know, it's time with 434 00:34:53.800 --> 00:34:58.559 the kids. There is no there is no substitute, you know, quantity 435 00:34:58.599 --> 00:35:00.920 with the kids. There's no subtitude in terms of quality, in terms of 436 00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:07.800 outsourcing the kids. And it's very important that you understand who is going to 437 00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:12.199 be holding their heart at various times, right, and and that that really 438 00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:14.639 is the key thing. I think people need to think of it that way. 439 00:35:14.679 --> 00:35:17.440 You know, if you think of somebody holding something as fragile as a 440 00:35:17.480 --> 00:35:22.280 heart, and you don't realize that that is really what is happening at these 441 00:35:22.360 --> 00:35:28.880 very tender ages, is very very malleable. And it's kind of interesting that 442 00:35:28.960 --> 00:35:32.400 you point out that the worldview of adults really doesn't change. Of course, 443 00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:36.039 we were told that, you know, I believe it because in the Bible, 444 00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:40.960 and but your research has has borne that out. So it is interesting 445 00:35:40.960 --> 00:35:45.239 because we do have people who've had some exceptions to that. I guess that 446 00:35:45.519 --> 00:35:52.880 would be the exceptions that have had a very difficult upbringing and but God has 447 00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:58.199 stepped into their life and worked in a way to radically change them. Right. 448 00:35:58.679 --> 00:36:01.119 But that's that's really the accept would you say it is the exception, 449 00:36:01.400 --> 00:36:06.119 and one of the interesting things I did, actually the biggest study I've ever 450 00:36:06.159 --> 00:36:09.079 done, was on that very thing. And what I found is that there 451 00:36:09.159 --> 00:36:15.119 are the way that people change is God allows them to go through a crisis. 452 00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:19.559 You know, we tend to think of a crisis as something to avoid 453 00:36:19.599 --> 00:36:22.400 at all costs. It's painful, we don't want to endure it. And 454 00:36:22.519 --> 00:36:29.679 yet God uses crisis to get our attention and to shake us up enough to 455 00:36:29.800 --> 00:36:36.639 reconsider some of the basic foundations of our worldview. And what I discovered is 456 00:36:36.679 --> 00:36:43.239 that there tend to be six different crises that are most common that are effective 457 00:36:43.239 --> 00:36:46.480 at shaking us up enough that yes, we can move more and more toward 458 00:36:46.599 --> 00:36:52.320 having a biblical worldview. You know, an ugly divorce, the painful death 459 00:36:52.360 --> 00:36:59.480 of someone who is close to you that you loved, contracting or a debilitating 460 00:36:59.519 --> 00:37:04.679 illness or having some kind of debilitating injury, losing all of your possessions, 461 00:37:04.719 --> 00:37:10.639 and a natural disaster, spending time in prison, and going through personal bankruptcy. 462 00:37:12.119 --> 00:37:17.639 Those six things represent a majority of the crises that have enabled people to 463 00:37:17.760 --> 00:37:22.960 get to a place where God could continue the transformational process in their life, 464 00:37:23.440 --> 00:37:30.519 and they moved away from a secular mindset and heartset more toward a biblical mindset. 465 00:37:30.679 --> 00:37:35.440 So yeah, it's possible, you know. And that's the hope that 466 00:37:35.599 --> 00:37:38.719 parents need who blew it with their young kids, you know, because it's 467 00:37:38.840 --> 00:37:43.159 never over. If you're just hearing this and you're saying, oh my gosh, 468 00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:45.679 my child is fourteen, sixteen, and eighteen, you know, what 469 00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:49.360 do I do now? It's like, okay, don't give up hope. 470 00:37:49.480 --> 00:37:54.519 By the keep in mind that discipleship is a relationship. It's a relationship with 471 00:37:54.599 --> 00:37:59.920 Jesus first, and it's a relationship with another disciple, somebody who wants to 472 00:38:00.039 --> 00:38:04.840 bring you into that relationship with Christ. So it's all about relationship. What 473 00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:07.719 do you do with that relationship? You invite that other person on the journey 474 00:38:07.760 --> 00:38:12.079 with you. It's not somewhere you give them homework and simon to say, 475 00:38:12.360 --> 00:38:15.960 go and learn these verses, go and figure out how to make this feel 476 00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:19.280 in your life, or so like, hey, let's check this out. 477 00:38:19.719 --> 00:38:22.920 Let's see how this works together. You know, we'll read the passages, 478 00:38:23.360 --> 00:38:29.519 we'll talk about the passages, we'll go and we'll we'll exhibit the passages in 479 00:38:29.559 --> 00:38:32.760 our lives. That's how discipleship works. How do we know that because that's 480 00:38:32.800 --> 00:38:36.840 what Jesus did. Yes, yes, well that really is true. And 481 00:38:36.880 --> 00:38:40.079 you know when you're talking about that through crisis and through pain, that's what 482 00:38:40.159 --> 00:38:43.840 C. S. Lewis said. You know, God speaks to us through 483 00:38:43.840 --> 00:38:47.000 our pain. And actually I think you use the analogy of you know, 484 00:38:47.000 --> 00:38:52.199 the blows of a sculptor changing us in our life. Nobody wants to go 485 00:38:52.239 --> 00:38:55.599 through that, but it is a really loving process. And I think we 486 00:38:55.679 --> 00:39:00.079 go back and we look at the crises in our lives as I'm about your 487 00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:05.440 age and we were in the review stage here, and we look at the 488 00:39:05.440 --> 00:39:08.719 most difficult times in our life. That was the time when God spoke to 489 00:39:08.800 --> 00:39:13.119 us and moved us in a different direction. Yeah, it is true. 490 00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:19.599 And our tendency is to try to restore everything to quote unquote normal. Yeah 491 00:39:19.880 --> 00:39:22.719 that's right. Well, often the reason that we're having the crisis is because 492 00:39:22.760 --> 00:39:29.719 normal ain't working for us to be willing to say, Okay, this might 493 00:39:29.800 --> 00:39:34.519 be a great opportunity for me to rethink this a little bit. That's the 494 00:39:34.519 --> 00:39:37.679 direction God may be pushing us. That's true. And when I look at 495 00:39:37.639 --> 00:39:42.079 the some of the discussion points here about your book, embrace an eternal perspective, 496 00:39:42.639 --> 00:39:45.559 properly define what a successful life is. That's one of the key things. 497 00:39:45.679 --> 00:39:47.960 You know. If God is going to you know, as you point 498 00:39:47.960 --> 00:39:51.480 out, if the normal is not working for you, maybe He's got a 499 00:39:51.519 --> 00:39:54.519 new normal for you. It's going to change what you really want and how 500 00:39:54.559 --> 00:40:00.440 you define a success is not just simply being comfortable. Maybe it's something else, 501 00:40:00.519 --> 00:40:05.119 isn't it? It is? And you know, for those parents who 502 00:40:05.159 --> 00:40:07.199 are trying to get a handle on okay, okay, but where do I 503 00:40:07.239 --> 00:40:10.920 start with all of this? I feel overwhelmed. I'm not of the elotionan 504 00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:16.000 I don't know where to start. One of the greatest discoveries I feel that 505 00:40:16.039 --> 00:40:19.960 I've ever made out of the data, you know, I feel like Isaac 506 00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:23.679 Newton. Here is a really late one that is like one or two in 507 00:40:23.679 --> 00:40:28.159 the morning. I'm playing with data. And one of the things I found 508 00:40:28.199 --> 00:40:35.480 is there are seven particular beliefs that fit together and can serve as a great 509 00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:40.760 biblical worldview foundation. What the data showed is if you embrace all seven of 510 00:40:40.800 --> 00:40:45.920 these very simple biblical perspectives and you try to carry them out in your life, 511 00:40:46.320 --> 00:40:52.039 you'll have an eighty three percent probability of going on to develop a complete 512 00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:58.599 biblical worldview. If you reject any one, one or more of these seven 513 00:40:59.280 --> 00:41:02.400 I'm calling them the the cornerstones of the biblical worldview. If you reject one 514 00:41:02.480 --> 00:41:07.039 or more of the cornerstones, then you've got only a two percent probability, 515 00:41:07.239 --> 00:41:12.840 wow, of a biblical worldview. That's how important these seven elements are. 516 00:41:13.519 --> 00:41:17.480 And you know when people hear them, you know, devoted Christians laugh, 517 00:41:19.000 --> 00:41:22.679 Come on, that's Sunday School one on one. Yeah, but apparently most 518 00:41:22.719 --> 00:41:25.079 people didn't pay attention during Sunday School one on one. That's why he started 519 00:41:25.239 --> 00:41:29.599 fifteen months. That's right, Tell it real quickly what they are. I'm 520 00:41:29.679 --> 00:41:32.840 dying enough. Yeah, I mean number one is you not only believe that 521 00:41:32.880 --> 00:41:37.480 God exists, but you know that in terms of his nature and character, 522 00:41:37.519 --> 00:41:42.360 he's all, all knowing, all loving, you know, all powerful, 523 00:41:42.719 --> 00:41:46.480 he's perfect, he's just he wants to be involved in your life because he 524 00:41:46.559 --> 00:41:51.119 created you, because he wants to love you. He wants that relationship. 525 00:41:51.480 --> 00:41:53.840 Okay, knowing there's that kind of God who's perfect and just holy and so 526 00:41:53.920 --> 00:41:59.480 forth, that's great. But cornerstone number two, but recognize that we're born 527 00:41:59.519 --> 00:42:04.119 as sinner, we sin throughout our lives. We're born into that approach, 528 00:42:04.639 --> 00:42:10.800 and every choice we make has consequences, and our sins have eternal consequences. 529 00:42:12.199 --> 00:42:20.079 And so Cornerstone number three is recognizing that the only real antidote to that consequence, 530 00:42:20.519 --> 00:42:24.159 the negative consequence of our sins, is Jesus Christ. So what we 531 00:42:24.199 --> 00:42:29.360 can do is acknowledge that we're sinners, you know, own up to it, 532 00:42:29.440 --> 00:42:31.519 fess up to it, ask Him to forgive us for our sins, 533 00:42:31.960 --> 00:42:37.800 and most importantly, truly repent, genuinely repent, which means that not just 534 00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:40.119 I'm saying, yeah, give me, you know, eternal fire insurance, 535 00:42:40.760 --> 00:42:47.000 but it's saying, I really feel remorse over the fact that these choices of 536 00:42:47.039 --> 00:42:51.480 mind, these sins, break God's heart. I don't want to do that 537 00:42:51.559 --> 00:42:55.599 anymore. So God give me the strength to fight back the temptation to keep 538 00:42:55.639 --> 00:43:01.440 sinning. Cornerstone number four is is saying that you know what we know what 539 00:43:01.480 --> 00:43:07.360 those sins are because God gave us his word, He gave us principles for 540 00:43:07.480 --> 00:43:10.800 life. So he identifies sins, he identifies the right way to live, 541 00:43:12.239 --> 00:43:19.159 He identifies what gives him and us joy. And Cornerstone Number five is saying 542 00:43:19.199 --> 00:43:22.960 that, and the Bible, in the course of doing so, gives us 543 00:43:22.079 --> 00:43:28.920 absolute moral truths. And so it's not based on our life conditions. It's 544 00:43:28.920 --> 00:43:31.679 not based on our feelings, it's not based on our situation, it's not 545 00:43:31.800 --> 00:43:37.039 based on what's most popular or most common. God has given us absolute moral 546 00:43:37.079 --> 00:43:42.719 truths, and when we reject those, we will reap the consequences of what 547 00:43:42.760 --> 00:43:47.960 we've sown through that rejection. Cornerstone number six goes to what you are saying, 548 00:43:49.360 --> 00:43:53.440 recognizing what success in life is, and the Bible tells us that. 549 00:43:53.599 --> 00:43:59.280 God makes it very clear that success is not about money. It's not about 550 00:43:59.360 --> 00:44:02.079 cars, about the trophy, spouse, you know, any of that kind 551 00:44:02.119 --> 00:44:07.159 of stuff, fame, et cetera. It's simply about being consistently obedient to 552 00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:14.119 God. You can be a homeless person wearing rags, not knowing if you're 553 00:44:14.119 --> 00:44:17.639 going to get another meal, but if you're consistently obedient to God, you 554 00:44:17.840 --> 00:44:22.599 are a success in life, not in the world's eyes, but in God's 555 00:44:22.599 --> 00:44:27.800 eyes. And then the final one is understanding that when God created you, 556 00:44:27.960 --> 00:44:30.480 he loved you, and he gave you a purpose for life, and that 557 00:44:30.639 --> 00:44:36.239 universal purpose that all of us share. There's a unique purpose He'll give to 558 00:44:36.280 --> 00:44:39.360 each of those who are following Jesus. But that universal purpose each of us 559 00:44:39.400 --> 00:44:44.119 has is very simply to know, love and serve God with all our heartlind, 560 00:44:44.159 --> 00:44:47.559 strength, and soul. So when you put these seven things together, 561 00:44:49.239 --> 00:44:53.000 it completely changes your understanding of how life works, who you are, why 562 00:44:53.039 --> 00:44:59.000 you're here, how to live, how to gauge whether or not your life 563 00:44:59.079 --> 00:45:04.559 is making the difference that God wants it to make. And yet those seven 564 00:45:04.599 --> 00:45:08.960 things are very easy for us as parents to wrap our arms around and to 565 00:45:09.039 --> 00:45:14.119 be able to share those with our children and to go on a journey with 566 00:45:14.199 --> 00:45:17.800 our children pursuing those seven things. And as you were alluding to, you 567 00:45:17.840 --> 00:45:21.559 know earlier, the way I say it to parents is, look, you 568 00:45:21.599 --> 00:45:23.920 don't have to be a theologian. You only have to be ten seconds ahead 569 00:45:23.960 --> 00:45:27.960 of your kids. And if you are, this is going to work. 570 00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:30.639 It's going to work. Great. Invite them on the journey with you, 571 00:45:30.880 --> 00:45:35.920 that's right. Yeah, Yeah, If you can outthink that fifteen month old 572 00:45:35.960 --> 00:45:38.920 a few stuffs out of them, you got it made. And God will 573 00:45:38.960 --> 00:45:42.519 give you what you need to do that. You know, He always does 574 00:45:42.559 --> 00:45:45.800 equip us for the things that he assigns to us, and that's that's the 575 00:45:45.880 --> 00:45:49.599 key thing, stepping out in faith. And we've had a lot of people 576 00:45:49.639 --> 00:45:52.840 have to do that over the last couple of years when they were confronted with 577 00:45:52.920 --> 00:45:57.800 things in their own life that we're going to be shut off to them if 578 00:45:57.840 --> 00:46:01.039 they didn't violate their conscience. And so I think that may have been a 579 00:46:01.079 --> 00:46:07.400 difficult time of training for many people in our society. And so that makes 580 00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:10.400 me very optimistic about the future because we've had a lot of people who have 581 00:46:10.440 --> 00:46:16.000 been under the sculptor's chisel over the last few years and came through from the 582 00:46:16.000 --> 00:46:22.360 other side and to this new normal. They've got a very different perspective after 583 00:46:22.400 --> 00:46:25.239 having gone through that. Well, that's certainly a sage advice and it looks 584 00:46:25.280 --> 00:46:29.760 like an excellent book. Again, the book is and you pull the book 585 00:46:29.840 --> 00:46:35.599 up, raising spiritual Champions, nurturing your child's heart, mind, and spirit, 586 00:46:35.719 --> 00:46:37.960 and you can find that at I guess the best place Amazon? Is 587 00:46:37.960 --> 00:46:40.679 that the best place to find that or do you sell it directly? It 588 00:46:40.719 --> 00:46:45.239 is, yeah, and we've got it both in paperback and digital versions, 589 00:46:45.559 --> 00:46:50.480 whichever you prefer. It's available. That's great and how can people keep up. 590 00:46:50.480 --> 00:46:52.119 Whether you'd have a sub stack or anything like that, or a website 591 00:46:52.159 --> 00:46:57.159 that you tell people that you publish on. Yeah, if they go to 592 00:46:57.239 --> 00:47:01.159 Cultural Research Center dot com, they'll find all the research that we do. 593 00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:05.559 We try to put as much of it on that website for free as possible 594 00:47:06.079 --> 00:47:08.239 so people can take it, use it, share it. You know. 595 00:47:08.320 --> 00:47:14.119 The whole idea is for us to keep growing as disciples of Jesus, So 596 00:47:14.159 --> 00:47:15.360 every time we learn something, we want to be able to share it with 597 00:47:15.400 --> 00:47:19.880 the public. That's great, that's great. Well, it certainly has great 598 00:47:19.880 --> 00:47:24.599 advice. And you've been watching bigger trends in people's lives and you have seen 599 00:47:24.639 --> 00:47:29.719 how this aligns with the Bible. So that's your biblical worldview. You have 600 00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:32.760 seen it devalidated what the Bible says. You've seen that validated over a long 601 00:47:32.800 --> 00:47:37.760 period of time, and you have a lot of very sage advice for people. 602 00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:39.840 Thank you so much for joining us at George Barna appreciate it. Thank 603 00:47:39.880 --> 00:47:55.920 you, Thank you. David. The David Knight Show is a critical thinking 604 00:47:57.280 --> 00:48:05.320 super spreader. You been exposed to logic by listening to The David Night Show. 605 00:48:06.280 --> 00:48:13.920 Please do your part and try not to spread it. Financial support or 606 00:48:14.039 --> 00:48:22.000 simply telling others about the show causes this dangerous information to spread. Father people 607 00:48:22.239 --> 00:48:29.960 have to trust me, I mean trust the science. Wear you mask, 608 00:48:30.639 --> 00:48:42.119 take your vaccine, don't ask questions using free speech to free minds, It's 609 00:48:42.280 --> 00:48:47.039 The David Knight Show.