WEBVTT

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Hello, and welcome to over mind
UFO Radio. My name is Alejandro Rojas.

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I am your host for today and
I am here with Martin Ruski Willis.

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That's right, yo, coming at
your live from Russia. Yo again.

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Yeah, you're back in Russia,
well for about a month this time.

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Wow, back in the US.
Back in the US is socc but

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it's not the USSR anymore, that's
right, yep, So that's cool.

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Off tour down that wall the mother
country. But it's not your mother country,

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right, it is not? What
is your mother country? Do you

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have one? England? Well,
Wales? Wales. That's interesting where there's

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no UFO sightings because it's foggy all
the time. Not foggy, but overcast.

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That's where Catherine Zetta Jones is from. I know where I used to

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see her all the time. Oh
yeah, the coffee shops. Yes,

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everything, I say, yes,
Well that's fun. So is there any

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particular reason you went out there?
Yes, it's actually a medical reasons for

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my girlfriend's uh you know, a
mother, I mean father. I'm sorry,

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but you know, everything will be
fine, and that's why I'm here

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for a prolonged time. It's actually, you know, just a couple of

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surgeries that need to be done,
and you know, and that's it.

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We'll be here for a while.
And uh, you know, I got

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to say, I'm not a fan
of the food, and I'm really glad

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that they can't understand my English because
they're in the next room. Like you

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know, this so just so many
ways you can cook porschh. I mean,

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that's just it's like a bunch of
vegetables with some type of I don't

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even know what type of brothit is, and then sometimes there's meats in it.

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You know, this has been vegetable
porsch and it's well, you know,

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I've had it for every meal I've
been here, except for breakfast,

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which is other very strange things.
Yeah, what do they do for breakfast?

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Well, it's an oatmeal that's like
a powder, so it's like a

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liquid and it's just I mean it's
it tastes as bad as it sounds,

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if you ask me. And then
these weird egg things on top of bread,

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almost like a thick layer of French
toast that you do nothing with.

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And you know it's good because you
know, I can take off a few

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pounds and getting a lot of exercise
and on the Black Sea. It's pretty

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Yeah, that'll be helpful. I
mean, I guess losing rap. Did

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they have like smoothies? Can you
eat smoothies? They have nothing here?

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No restaurants, No, really yeah, I mean there's a couple of them

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somewhere in the town. There's only
two hundred and fifty thousand people in this

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town. Holy cow, are you
having any problems with old ladies this time?

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Well? I about to murder you. Yes, I did spot that

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same exact woman. Oh about two
hundred and fifty thousand people actually with her

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little again and I just steered clear. Yeah, it doesn't recognize me.

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Yeah, wow, harrowing, very
adventurous. Huh. It is going to

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Sochi tomorrow for number of days,
so that'll be that'll be exciting going to

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be staying in a big place there. And it's really a beautiful, uh

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town right on the Black Sea as
well. It's a full day drive away.

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And but you know, you go
up into the mountains that's where the

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Winter Olympics were. But this is
right on the Black Sea itself, nice

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and toasty warm seventy five degrees Wow. Great, here is it pretty out

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there? Oh? The Black Sea
is absolutely beautiful, you know. I

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mean it's it's you know, it's
big. I mean it's huge, but

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it's the water sort of turquoise,
so it's kind of nice. Wow,

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that is so cool. I'd love
to see it. But I'll pack my

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own lunch, I guess. Huh
yeah, I would bring your own Porsche.

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Cool. Well, that sounds like
fun. So we'll be talking to

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you and checking up on your Russian
adventure over the next few weeks. Huh

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yeah for a little while. And
the Internet sounds great. I mean,

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you sound better than some of my
guests here in the States. I know,

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it's amazing. I've been talking to
people on my phone all day and

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it's like the phone works perfect too. You know, we may be making

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fun of Russia right now, and
we're going to make fun of Russia a

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little bit more and a little bit
here, I know, related to some

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UFO stories, but from what I
understand, I mean, really, the

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US surprisingly has terrible internet compared to
many other countries. You know, I've

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heard like the worst is Australia,
but I'm not sure. I mean that's

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you know, I guess, yeah, they're pretty I guess what happened is

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since we were first of the game. We rolled out these cables all over

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the place. But since others kind
of came in later, they were able

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to roll out the fiber all over
the place. Why, I think fiber

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optics. Yeah, that's the magic. Yeah. Pretty cool. Well awesome.

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Enjoy yourself out there, buddy.
Thanks. Who do you have coming

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on today for your guests? That's
that's a funny you should say. I

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was just about to mention my guest
is Richard Hoffman. He is a state

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director for moufon out in Alabama and
I think Mississippi, Yeah, nearby two

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places. And you know, he'll
tell us in the interview because my memory

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for some reason is failing me.
Just a super busy morning Mondays of course.

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And he's also got another title.
He manages a I think grategy or

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something like that for move On.
He's got a couple of titles there,

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so he does a lot of stuff. But he's been in this forever,

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which we'll talk about some amazing stuff
he did as a child in relation to

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UFOs and so just a really impressive
cool guy. He's also part of the

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SDU team. So do you remember
that they were the guys who researched that

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Homeland security video. Oh yes,
m h. So he's a part of

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that team and he'll be talking about
that case as well. Oh that's good.

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I still want to follow that case
because I don't think it's over yet,

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right, it's not so far,
so we'll talk about updates. Another

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interesting fact is he's a bow tie
wearer. Oh that's a rare reed.

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Yeah, which I find I have
a even more appreciation for recently due to

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Doctor Who. I'm a Doctor Who
fan, and if you know, the

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Matt Smith character used to always wear
bow ties and say bow ties are cool.

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That was kind of his little catchphrase
bow ties. Well, I got

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to tell you. I don't know
if you have ever tried to tie one

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of those suckers, but it is
not an easy task. Really. Oh

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it took me hours to try to
figure it out. It's really toss Yeah.

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I'm not the most coordinated person in
the first place. So yeah,

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don't try. I don't think I
will. I kind of like the long

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tire. I like the you know, no tie personally, because yeah,

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that's a cool look and it's kind
of acceptable these days, right yep.

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So let's go ahead and get into
some UFO news. Have you been able

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to see any uf BONE news out
there in Russia? Yeah? Well,

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I want to talk about This is
about an army chief of staff and he

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warns of you know his wording.
I got to say it was all on

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his wording, hybrid armies and little
green men. Now, this was a

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speech last week at Norwich University,
and General Mark Miley is his name,

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chief of Staff for the US Army, told the audience, many of whom

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were ROTC cadets, that the future
the cadets who'll be dealing with, among

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other things, is hybrid armies and
little green men. Now, some UFO

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ors assumed this to be an admission
that armies of aliens and alien human hybrids

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are threatening the earth, and you
can watch where they're going to go with

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that. I bet it's going to
be pretty big the way things can go.

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But anyway, this is not what
he was actually talking about at all.

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He was warning them about the complex
makeup of the enemies that they will

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face, and that includes terrorists and
armies without states, cyber warfare, unidentified

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armies working covertly, and there's also
there's also like in I think it was

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Russia that these are armies, including
forces that are just seen like in the

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Ukraine that are believed to be Russian
special forces and like in Ukraine and Crimea,

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and they wear unmarked uniforms and drive
unmarked vehicles. That's kind it's scary,

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and so Russia has denied that they've
deployed these forces. But it's been

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a strange case anyway. Anyway,
so we'll see again where people go with

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what he said. You know,
Unfortunately he wasn't meaning not unfortunately I'm gonna

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say, but he wasn't meaning what
I believe a lot of people will take

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it, you know, at face
value that it was talking about aliens.

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Yeah, and it's kind of one
of those crazy things. It's kind of

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a turned into in some you know, corners, especially these online discussion groups

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and stuff. It's kind of turned
into one of the Mexican Roswell's Slade kind

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of thing where there people heard him
say this, and you know, and

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he's very straightforward. Hybrid armies and
little Green men and UFO people are like,

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oh my gosh, you know,
and they're riding and some well known

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people wrote, this is finally disclosure
proosy. The army knows that they're fighting

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with aliens and all this stuff.
And I gotta say, it wasn't very

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difficult. I mean, when I
saw it, I was going to write

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about it. I thought, this
is really interesting. He should use these

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terms. But I thought he's either
joking or these terms are military terms.

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But it wasn't very difficult to find
out that. Surprisingly to me, these

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were military terms. And people were
saying, look, he's not joking because

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there's a video of him out there
and he's very straightforward about these comments and

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everything, and so it wasn't very
hard to find these were military terms.

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But when people started saying that,
you know, of course, the people

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who have already committed to this idea
that this army general is talking about aliens

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did not give up. They're still
out there to this day saying no,

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you know, he meant aliens,
He didn't mean aliens. And I mean,

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these terms are on Wikipedia for goodness
sakes, but this is really funny

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development. So Friday, so I
wrote my story to clear the water and

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to write about, you know,
what these terms really meant and everything,

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to give people a reference just before
it got too big, Hey, before

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you get too excited. He wasn't
talking about aliens. Here's what he was

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really talking about. Well, on
Friday, the Army Times wrote a follow

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up story and about how UFO enthusiasts
are going crazy with with that lecture,

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and they quoted our story, our
open mind story. They said, however,

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yeah, really cool. They wrote, However, the UFO website,

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you know, UFO news website,
Open Minds, tried to debunk the whole

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thing to let people know what was
really going on, and they used a

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quote from my story and then they
went on to describe, you know,

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what those terms really meant like you
just had outlined. So that was kind

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of cool. The Army Times given
us some credit, but setting the record

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straight. They moved pretty quickly too, to write there follow up UFO story.

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Well, I got to tell you, if you watch what unfolds about

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this, it'll be I can just
almost guarantee you that you're going to see

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some you know, spots in some
of the UK tabloids and things like that

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next thing you know, to be
everywhere. Yeah. I hate to sound

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like such a you know, pessimist, but I just have seen it so

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many times. Right, they'll just
take off with it. Yeah, And

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I mean, I'm sorry to any
listeners out there who are really excited,

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I think that he was talking about
aliens. But I mean, you could

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read my story and go to my
links and read the Army Times story to

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see very clearly that you know,
these are terms, and you know this

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is like, these are terms that
are in their lexicon. These are terms

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that this guy probably goes to briefings
every day and they talk about hybrid armies

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and they talk about little Green men
and so these are things they talk about

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regularly. So for him, these
terms are every day and he probably didn't

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think that, you know, the
general public doesn't know what he's talking about

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when he says these things, and
that they would kind of be taken aback

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a bit. But yeah, so
that's the story. And you know what

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this week's kind of been like that. Some other people like there wasn't a

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whole lot of news, but the
news that was out there was mostly from

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UK tabloids covering known hoaxes. So
I'm sorry people, but you know this

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as well. Martin Secure Team ten
had one or two stories out there.

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Those are fake videos, Those are
hoaxes. Those are fake, Those aren't

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real, no matter if the UK
Daily Express or the Daily Star, Pick

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Them Up or The Sun, all
of which are tabloids, which, of

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course, when you go to their
stories, they're full of bikini girls doing

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all kinds of weird stuff, you
know, or women without bikinis or anything.

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That's the other favorite thing to cover. But these are tabloids who really

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don't care about accuracy as much as
sensationalism. But the Secure Team ten and

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they're only thinly veiled hoaxes. I
don't even think Securit Team ten meant to

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hoax everybody, but just have fun
and people run wild with that stuff.

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Wow. Just for the record,
I never like to cover women without baby

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in suits, if you catch my
drift. Yeah, there's kind of a

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pun there. You'd never like to
cover women just a little bit. Yeah,

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yeah, sorry, yeah, sorry, I'm gonna make you hang here

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by are you trying to make like
an awkward moment? Yeah, I'm making

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any hang because if I would have
moved on, it would have gotten you

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off the hook. But by waiting
and now by talking about it, it's

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kind of about what and to pretend
it never happened. Now, now that

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you're out in Russia, you're gonna
this is your version of Little Green men

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tonight it ever happened even though we
have a recording, So you're learning to

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yeah. So yeah, and so
did you want to vent any frustration about

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Secure Team tenor or anything any comments? Do you agree that they they're not

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real? Well, yeah, you
know, it's just a well, you

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know, it's just kind of goes
along with what I was saying just a

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few minutes ago. You know,
Unfortunately, and there are so many cases

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I was talking to Kevin Randall last
night. There are so many cases where

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like myth seems to become reality in
these stories. And you know, you

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can only do what you can do, and that's, you know, right,

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the gist of what really is going
on, and just hopefully some of

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that will get out there like it
did. The Army paper saw that and

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covered it, which is good.
But all we can do, you know,

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personally, all anybody can do is
keep their side of the street clean

208
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and try to make factual stories and
not and be careful of the myths.

209
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Anyone can fall into them. Right. So, two things though that I

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want to mention that aren't myth are
you know, we talked about this last

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week. There's a UFO detector software
out there. We just put this.

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We featured it on our UFO Open
Mind UFO report that we posted Friday,

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that's up on the internet and on
our page, you know, our video

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thing. But also last week's guests
with Robert Hastings. That's the real deal.

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I mean, that is good hard
information, you know, military witnesses.

216
00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:48.680
Again. I've just can't express enough
that how important and how great that

217
00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:53.440
he's done this, and that I
do implore people to go download and watch

218
00:17:53.759 --> 00:18:00.319
his documentary. Have you been able
to do that yet? No, I've

219
00:18:00.359 --> 00:18:03.799
had I had such a busy week
before I came to Russia. I can

220
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imagine I wasn't able to do anything. But I will have some downtime here

221
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or I can do that. Yeah, and there's Russian stories too, Russian

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nukes stories about the same thing happening
here. You know, accounts of military

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people in Russia saying the same thing
happened over there, with things like UFOs

224
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coming over and turning off nukes and
stuff. But we did that last week.

225
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But anyway, Yeah, great great
stuff. Otherwise, I did want

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to mention something on another serious note, as serious as I can be.

227
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I guess I didn't get much.
I figured I want to bring awareness around

228
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this medical condition I have and I
had to spend all day last Tuesday at

229
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the doctor's part of this trial and
this drug that I have for something called

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ankle licing spondylitis. So in my
videos, what's up that doesn't sound good?

231
00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:03.640
Well, it's yeah, well I
don't know. In a way,

232
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it's not as bad as it sounds, but it kind of is. So

233
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in my videos, you know,
or if you've seen me, a lot

234
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of people will mention, oh,
man, your neck looks like it hurts,

235
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or you look kind of hunched down
a bit. I am because I

236
00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:22.880
have this thing called inkolescing spindelitis,
which I wish I would have known about

237
00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:26.079
earlier. And that's why I want
to tell people about it, because I

238
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think there needs to be a lot
more awareness. If I would have known

239
00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:36.079
that I had this condition, let's
say, you know, fifteen years ago

240
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when it first started acting up,
I could have you know, saved a

241
00:19:40.759 --> 00:19:47.160
lot of my back curvature from unfortunately
being curved like it is now. And

242
00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:52.279
what it is is it it's akin
to rheumatoid arthritis. It's a it's an

243
00:19:52.279 --> 00:19:56.960
immunity disease where essentially your immune system
is overactive and for some reason in my

244
00:19:57.119 --> 00:20:00.440
case with arthritis, it's other joints, but in my case it's the spine.

245
00:20:00.839 --> 00:20:06.079
It sees the spine and attacks the
spine as if it's a virus or

246
00:20:06.079 --> 00:20:11.000
something. Oh my god. Yeah, So what happens is the joints in

247
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between the spine gets start to deteriorate
and in order to garbage, yeah,

248
00:20:17.400 --> 00:20:21.839
the cartilage, because it attacks that, and so those begin to close.

249
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And then it also, like your
body tries to compensate, so it grows

250
00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:33.440
more cartilage out from the bones essentially
kind of thing, and those spine your

251
00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:40.480
spine then begins to fuse, but
it fuses curved and it pushes forward.

252
00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:42.720
And so there's a lot of people
you might have seen people who are really

253
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bent over and through as the longer
you have this, and more and more

254
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it pushes down. So what happens
is you begin to get this in your

255
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twenties, and if you're lucky,
it doesn't last very long. It can

256
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last anywhere from twenty to or ten
to years. Usually it goes away in

257
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your forties or fifties. But if
you catch it earlier enough, you can

258
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take some drugs that get rid of
that inflammation and then so you save you

259
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know, from that fusing from happening, so you don't lose mobility. Like

260
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I can't turn my head left or
right very far, i can't bend over

261
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very far. And I've got this
kind of like you know, curve in

262
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my neck that people can see,
and that'll never go away because there's you

263
00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:36.759
know a few spine spinal columns that
are fused. So the unfortunate part is

264
00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:40.079
when I used to tell my doctors
about my back hurting, you know,

265
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I thought it was you know,
they would say, oh, you know,

266
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it's just regular back pain, and
so they never said anything. They

267
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didn't tell me to go to a
rheumatologist. So if you're in your twenties

268
00:21:49.960 --> 00:21:55.440
and you have back pain, go
to a roomatologist. At least get checked.

269
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Because if I would have been checked, I could have been on the

270
00:21:56.839 --> 00:22:02.240
drugs, and then I wouldn't have
I only just started taking drugs about two

271
00:22:02.319 --> 00:22:06.839
years ago to relieve this, and
my back pain was severe. I mean

272
00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:10.640
it was really bad. I had
to watch how I walked and stepped.

273
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I didn't even know how much it
affected me until I got on this drug

274
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and it alleviated that. So Luckily, my back has been fine the last

275
00:22:18.799 --> 00:22:21.279
couple of years. I used to
think maybe it was because I was over

276
00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:26.119
eight overweight, because years ago I
was, but I lost the weight and

277
00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:29.680
it still didn't go away. And
that's what triggered the alarm is I was

278
00:22:29.720 --> 00:22:33.519
going to the gym practically every day. I'd lost sixty pounds working out.

279
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Anything I ever tried couldn't solve the
problem. I thought, I'm just gonna

280
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have to live with this pain.
My girlfriend actually just kept pushing me,

281
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you got to go to the chiropractor. So I did, and luckily,

282
00:22:44.640 --> 00:22:47.079
one of the chiropractors says, you
know what, I think you may have

283
00:22:47.119 --> 00:22:51.880
ink licing spondylitis. Because all the
chiropractors told me your back looks like the

284
00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:56.559
spine of a ninety year old.
So I finally went and got diagnosed and

285
00:22:56.680 --> 00:23:00.720
started to get the issue worked on. But I'll never regain any of that

286
00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:04.920
mobility or be able to stand up
straight. So yeah, so if you

287
00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:08.480
if you have back pain, go
get it checked. Don't think that you'll

288
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just have to live with it,
even though unfortunately millions of people do just

289
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have to live with the pain.
And that's why we have a huge issue

290
00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:22.839
with people getting hooked on on pain
does and painkillers. But luckily, so

291
00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:26.400
luckily in my case, there's a
drug that can alleviate the pain unlike others.

292
00:23:26.519 --> 00:23:30.200
But and if you catch it early
enough, you know, you don't

293
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have these complications. So I just
want people to know. And it is

294
00:23:33.920 --> 00:23:38.240
large. It's like one out of
ten young men have this condition in glycn

295
00:23:38.319 --> 00:23:44.440
spondylitis. Wow. Now I have
it worse than most, but still that's

296
00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:51.920
a lot of people, it really
is. That's huge. Yeah, wow,

297
00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:55.039
that's really something. So I was
thinking about it because I missed,

298
00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:57.480
you know, and I was thinking
about it yesterday that well, you know,

299
00:23:57.960 --> 00:24:02.519
that affected my work and I was
like, I should really start telling

300
00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:07.039
people about this, you know,
so because people need to know that they

301
00:24:07.079 --> 00:24:12.119
need to get their backchecked if they
have back pains in their twenties. So

302
00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:15.759
yeah, that's that's a good message. I'm glad you're getting that out there.

303
00:24:15.799 --> 00:24:18.279
You know, a lot of people
have different types of back pain,

304
00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:23.079
but it's you know, if it's
persistent, then you're right you should get

305
00:24:23.079 --> 00:24:26.960
a check. That could be a
number of things. And I always here

306
00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:30.680
you don't jump into back surgery right
away either. You really wait it out

307
00:24:30.759 --> 00:24:33.640
to see if it's something else or
you can do something else. A lot

308
00:24:33.640 --> 00:24:37.319
of people have regrets from getting surgery. Well, the surgery is a lot

309
00:24:37.359 --> 00:24:41.160
of them. Some of them only
works seventy five percent of the time.

310
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So but my mom's going to try
one of them because she's tried everything and

311
00:24:45.720 --> 00:24:48.480
hasn't had really from the pain,
and she doesn't want to get hooked on

312
00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:52.559
the pain killers. In the US, we have such a problem with that,

313
00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:55.759
and we do. There's so many
people and I know a few people

314
00:24:55.839 --> 00:24:59.839
who have died from it. Yeah, so you know, overdosed. So

315
00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:04.119
Prince might have. There's suspicions that
Prince's death may be due to that and

316
00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:07.720
they're looking into it, so we'll
find out soon if that's the case.

317
00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:15.000
But regardless, he was someone who
suffered from hip joint pain. So yeah,

318
00:25:15.039 --> 00:25:19.000
it's a really difficult situation. I
mean, it's the biggest health issue

319
00:25:19.079 --> 00:25:23.799
is people with different sorts of pain. But just don't be stubborn, I

320
00:25:23.799 --> 00:25:26.000
guess, like me, go to
the doctor, get it checked out.

321
00:25:26.039 --> 00:25:30.880
And unfortunately, even your general practitioner
may not give you the best advice or

322
00:25:30.920 --> 00:25:34.440
know what's going on, so you
might just on your own go to a

323
00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:37.839
specialist or tell your doctor I want
to get it checked out. Or you

324
00:25:37.880 --> 00:25:42.160
can go to the chiropractor if you
suspect and ask them if there's any fusing

325
00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:47.200
going on or what happens is these
little spines will start to grow out,

326
00:25:48.599 --> 00:25:53.240
starting to connect your you know,
the parts of your spine, different things

327
00:25:53.240 --> 00:26:00.279
that your chiropractor can identify. So
go get it checked out. Good,

328
00:26:00.319 --> 00:26:04.519
But there you go. Yeah,
so that's it for news. There are

329
00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:08.759
a couple other stories out there.
Roger Marsh from moufan has written a couple

330
00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:12.599
UFO sighting stories that we have on
the site from last week. Also nothing

331
00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:18.039
with photos or videos, which of
course people like, but still people love

332
00:26:18.079 --> 00:26:21.640
to hear from other people, you
know, what they've seen. So and

333
00:26:21.720 --> 00:26:26.880
of course a lot of the popular
UFO sightings out there rely on the credibility

334
00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:30.559
of the witness and they don't have
pictures or videos. So so yeah,

335
00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:37.640
check those out. Anything else not
not from overseas, Nope. All right,

336
00:26:37.720 --> 00:26:40.119
it's so cool that you sound so
great. You sound like you're in

337
00:26:40.160 --> 00:26:44.599
the room here, all right,
Yeah, I'm loving it. Yeah,

338
00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:48.759
all right, Well, thank you
so much for joining us from Russia.

339
00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:53.000
What time is it there? It
is nine to forty in the evening.

340
00:26:53.240 --> 00:26:57.160
Oh wow, yeah, it's eleven
forty in the am here, so well

341
00:26:57.200 --> 00:27:00.640
cool. Yeah, thanks buddy,
and you have a great time out there.

342
00:27:02.519 --> 00:27:04.160
All right, you take care.
All right, let's go ahead and

343
00:27:04.200 --> 00:27:11.200
hear what mister Hoffman has to say. I am very excited to welcome for

344
00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:18.240
the first time to the show,
Rich Hoffman. Hey, Alejandro, it's

345
00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:22.039
excited to be here. I haven't
been with you before, so this is

346
00:27:22.079 --> 00:27:26.279
a new kind of thing for us
to chat. And I'm looking well,

347
00:27:26.440 --> 00:27:29.200
And it's funny because I do this
sometimes and I told you that, you

348
00:27:29.240 --> 00:27:30.480
know when we set this up.
Oh yeah, have you back on the

349
00:27:30.519 --> 00:27:36.279
show. But you're one of the
guys I just talked to so regularly that

350
00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:38.720
I had figured you've been on the
podcast before, but you haven't. I

351
00:27:38.720 --> 00:27:45.599
think we did like a Skype video
interview before. But it's wonderful to be

352
00:27:45.640 --> 00:27:48.920
talking to you on the podcast here. Welcome, well, thanks, looking

353
00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:52.720
forward to it. It's a great
program that you've got going on. I've

354
00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:56.440
been enjoying it over the period time
you've been doing it, so it's great.

355
00:27:56.119 --> 00:28:00.079
Thank you, you know, and
your Skype picture here you don't have

356
00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:04.240
a bow tie. Usually I see
you with a bow tie, you know,

357
00:28:04.279 --> 00:28:08.200
I get it's amazing to me.
But I do wear a bow tile

358
00:28:08.359 --> 00:28:11.359
a lot and every day to work
and stuff like that. So when I

359
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:15.440
don't wear it, or when somebody
has a picture or she's a picture without

360
00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:18.079
it, man, I get grief
about the fact that I'm not wearing my

361
00:28:18.119 --> 00:28:23.240
bow tie. Yeah, Like,
who is that individual? Yeah? Who

362
00:28:23.319 --> 00:28:26.759
is that's not Rich Hoffman? I
mean he doesn't have a bow tie on.

363
00:28:26.200 --> 00:28:29.880
Yeah. Well, I got a
big kick out of sending you that

364
00:28:29.960 --> 00:28:33.200
gift the other day of the doctor
Who, the Matt Smith doctor Who,

365
00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:37.960
because he's always saying bow ties are
cool. So I don't know if you

366
00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:42.440
saw that, but yes I did. Yeah, yep. I get a

367
00:28:42.440 --> 00:28:45.519
lot of that doctor Who thing.
It's like, yeah, where's your chartist?

368
00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:52.279
Well, doctor Who is really cool. So that's a compliment. Yeah,

369
00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:55.880
well, thank you so much.
Thanks. I'll be wearing my bowtie

370
00:28:55.920 --> 00:29:00.160
done to uphone symposium too. Yeah, so I guess we'll get in to

371
00:29:00.359 --> 00:29:03.640
UFOs. I guess that's what we're
going to talk about. But just gotta

372
00:29:03.640 --> 00:29:07.400
switch away from bow ties. Yeah, at least for now, I'm sure

373
00:29:07.400 --> 00:29:14.960
they'll come up again, all right
eventually. But when did you first get

374
00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:19.640
into UFOs because you've been like with
Muffan since like to turn to the century

375
00:29:19.720 --> 00:29:25.160
or something, right, yeah,
back when the dinosaurs, I think somehow,

376
00:29:25.240 --> 00:29:27.319
you know, I mean no,
no, literally, I I got

377
00:29:27.319 --> 00:29:32.799
well, first off, I got
started with UFOs back in nineteen sixty four.

378
00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:37.759
Back in fact, I just celebrated
my fifty second year of ufology.

379
00:29:37.799 --> 00:29:42.000
It was April twenty fourth, nineteen
sixty four when well Lottie's the Moor Case

380
00:29:42.039 --> 00:29:45.319
happened. As a matter of fact, I think that's really what that's what

381
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:48.799
really got me. And then I
found out I was living in Dayton,

382
00:29:48.799 --> 00:29:52.519
Ohio, and Project Bluebook was up
the road, and that even did me

383
00:29:52.599 --> 00:29:55.319
in further because it was like,
wow, that's pretty neat. There's a

384
00:29:55.359 --> 00:29:59.680
project that the UIR Force Base,
which I hadn't even no clue about.

385
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:03.400
And then suddenly I got, you
know, pulled into the whole subject.

386
00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:07.839
I couldn't put a book down.
I was reading everything, newspaper, clip

387
00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:14.039
things, anything on the subject.
And but I joined upon see, so

388
00:30:14.319 --> 00:30:18.319
let me go back, because I
started my own organization, and in fact

389
00:30:18.359 --> 00:30:22.920
it was called Day's Cap which was
Dayton, you know, Committee on Society,

390
00:30:23.839 --> 00:30:27.720
Committee on Aerial phenomena similar to Nightcap. You know, so I would

391
00:30:27.799 --> 00:30:30.799
guess that you were pretty young.
Then if you don't want to, you

392
00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:33.319
don't have to reveal the age.
Well, no, I mean I was

393
00:30:33.319 --> 00:30:37.200
thirteen years old. Wow, so
I was only in eighth grade, you

394
00:30:37.240 --> 00:30:41.440
know, that's what what got me. But you know, uh, and

395
00:30:41.480 --> 00:30:45.000
then by the time I was fifteen, and I was actually on the Phil

396
00:30:45.079 --> 00:30:49.359
Donahue show in Dayton, and uh, you're kidding. No, I thought

397
00:30:49.359 --> 00:30:52.119
you knew that. Yeah, I
didn't know that. And I love Phil

398
00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:56.279
dona here. Yeah, I love
Phil Donahue too. And I got home

399
00:30:56.359 --> 00:30:59.880
that and this is before he went
and became really famous up in Chicago.

400
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:03.559
But nevertheless, he had the same
kind of show format that he had when

401
00:31:03.559 --> 00:31:07.000
he went up there. And he
was just right up the street actually from

402
00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:10.119
where I lived. I could ride
my bike to the station and stuff.

403
00:31:10.200 --> 00:31:12.599
But he had heard me. I
was doing presentations, as you know,

404
00:31:12.920 --> 00:31:18.039
already around the city through different groups, and somebody mentioned my name, and

405
00:31:18.079 --> 00:31:21.400
I guess the next thing I know
is I got on the show and at

406
00:31:21.440 --> 00:31:25.920
fifteen, yeah, fifteen years old, and I handled all the questions pretty

407
00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:30.119
well. And then then what happened
was because it played in Dayton. The

408
00:31:30.119 --> 00:31:33.240
next thing I know is I was
getting phone calls from everybody and their brother

409
00:31:33.400 --> 00:31:37.440
that wanted to know more. And
and then the next thing I know is

410
00:31:37.480 --> 00:31:41.039
I'm like giving, like I said, lectures everywhere television shows. I was

411
00:31:41.079 --> 00:31:44.759
pulled on Moh my god, I
can't even begin to tell you how many

412
00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:48.319
times I was on TV. And
then, you know, and then it

413
00:31:48.359 --> 00:31:52.640
got to be the point where,
like you know, I was literally getting

414
00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:57.359
calls from everybody and their brother,
and I didn't have really enough people to

415
00:31:57.400 --> 00:32:00.039
help me out. And it was
like I didn't even know that many people

416
00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:04.759
in the UFO subject. But suddenly
I started to pull people together and we

417
00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:08.160
started actually having meetings in my garage
garage, and you know, I started

418
00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:13.200
pulling together a group and then UH, and eventually I got UH. There

419
00:32:13.279 --> 00:32:19.440
was another group down in southern Ohio
UH in the Fairfield area called and we

420
00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:24.160
called ourselves the Ohio UFO Investigators League, and UH I got connected with them

421
00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:30.519
somehow I became their uh, their
director of investigations. UH. And then

422
00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:35.440
you know, then what happened was
I I had heard that there was a

423
00:32:35.480 --> 00:32:39.799
thing called Midwest UFO Network that was
starting up and it was in sache Sageen,

424
00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:43.359
Illinois, and I thought, well, I need to get connected with

425
00:32:43.400 --> 00:32:46.359
them, and so I joined up. And you know, so I'm one

426
00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:51.680
of those like early people that was
with the Midwest UFO group. And I

427
00:32:51.720 --> 00:32:53.599
got my first manual which was like, you know, I still have my

428
00:32:53.640 --> 00:32:58.400
manual from that. Wow and uh. And so you know, I've been

429
00:32:58.440 --> 00:33:01.680
with them for a long long time, forty some odd years and the thing

430
00:33:01.720 --> 00:33:05.880
that's exciting for me is that,
you know, after being with them all

431
00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:09.279
this time, this is my first
chance to actually now do a presentation at

432
00:33:09.319 --> 00:33:14.920
a symposium. Can you believe it? This is your first the very first

433
00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:20.319
time that I'm a presenter at the
New Fond Symposium since I've been with them.

434
00:33:20.759 --> 00:33:29.880
Wow. In nineteen seventy eight,
I hosted the New Fond Symposium and

435
00:33:30.200 --> 00:33:35.079
we rented out the entire Dayton Convention
Center. Oh and this was during Close

436
00:33:35.160 --> 00:33:39.880
Encounters. This is a big three
thousand, you got it. So this

437
00:33:40.039 --> 00:33:45.319
is the one where Heinik was there, Donald KiHa was there. Wow.

438
00:33:45.799 --> 00:33:51.559
Leonard Springfield was talking about crash retrievals. Ted Blotcher was there all these people

439
00:33:51.599 --> 00:33:55.119
that are you know, incredible,
and it was a and then we actually

440
00:33:55.119 --> 00:33:59.400
had the filming of our like a
huge screen that we had in the Dayton

441
00:33:59.440 --> 00:34:05.720
convention that are that showed the close
encounters or that that mothership scene, and

442
00:34:05.759 --> 00:34:08.239
that was you know, coincided with
but I that I was actually up on

443
00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:14.159
stage and I was a moderator for
that, introducing the guests. But that's

444
00:34:14.280 --> 00:34:20.760
that's it. So I'm pretty excited
about actually now doing my my first presentation

445
00:34:21.079 --> 00:34:24.199
with new von at a symposium.
How cool. I'm excited too because I'm

446
00:34:24.199 --> 00:34:28.400
doing move On for the first time
and it feels like, you know,

447
00:34:28.480 --> 00:34:30.880
I've been around move On for a
long time, but not even a fraction

448
00:34:31.079 --> 00:34:36.320
of it as long as as you
have. And that's not a dig to

449
00:34:36.440 --> 00:34:40.559
your age, that's all right,
That is in honor of your Yeah,

450
00:34:42.280 --> 00:34:45.760
of your I don't know, Uh
you're an elder statesman, I guess.

451
00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:50.159
So I've got the gray hair to
prove it. Yeah, well I've got

452
00:34:50.199 --> 00:34:53.840
gray hair too. So you you
you look talking about going back all of

453
00:34:53.880 --> 00:34:59.320
these years, you don't look to
be, uh that old. Well,

454
00:34:59.480 --> 00:35:05.199
thank you. I guess I'm very
fortunate in the gene area. So how

455
00:35:05.239 --> 00:35:10.840
did you and the UFO community feel
when Close Encounters came out? Oh,

456
00:35:10.920 --> 00:35:15.159
well, to me, I can
tell you this much, that we were

457
00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:17.800
all very, very excited because here
was for the very first time. It's

458
00:35:19.320 --> 00:35:23.000
so hard to get movies that depict, you know, actual true to life

459
00:35:23.119 --> 00:35:25.840
kind of events. You know that
they keep it, they keep to the

460
00:35:25.920 --> 00:35:31.159
stories as they're happening. So good
example would be the you know, Royniria

461
00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:35.360
in the truck and then you know, and the truck goes dead and it

462
00:35:35.400 --> 00:35:38.559
starts back up on its own,
and and then you had the varieties of

463
00:35:38.679 --> 00:35:44.960
shapes that you'd see. Uh we
we we really haven't had too many mother

464
00:35:45.079 --> 00:35:47.320
ships and some other things, but
we've had those like little you know,

465
00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:52.719
like ball of lights that are moving
around and things like that. And you

466
00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:55.199
gotta you had a chance to see
a lot of other different aspects like the

467
00:35:55.320 --> 00:36:00.880
radar screen you see him watching something, so you high had some elements of

468
00:36:00.920 --> 00:36:04.679
it that that Heinik was able to
bring in and his cameo performance, and

469
00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:07.679
then you know that it was cool
to be able to see Jacques Vallet in

470
00:36:07.800 --> 00:36:13.800
Francois Truffau's characterization of him, and
so it kind of like made it,

471
00:36:13.920 --> 00:36:15.239
you know, I brought it home
for us, and we thought that that

472
00:36:15.280 --> 00:36:22.480
would be a big, very big
helpful kind of like event, if you

473
00:36:22.480 --> 00:36:25.719
would, and it was to a
large extent, except that you know,

474
00:36:27.440 --> 00:36:30.719
it's you know, but the real
problem was that, you know, when

475
00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:34.760
when Bluebook decided to terminate and they
get the condomn report did the nail on

476
00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:37.679
the coffin, and then he had
the National Academy of Scientists actually now doing

477
00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:43.079
the nail on the scientist. It
just put an end to a lot of

478
00:36:43.119 --> 00:36:49.039
things. And then so suddenly we
lost we lost the top cover over a

479
00:36:49.039 --> 00:36:52.480
period of time where we had we're
now doing the same kind of work.

480
00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:55.400
And then people were like, oh
well, the Air Force thinks it must

481
00:36:55.480 --> 00:36:59.320
be pretty good, so okay,
it's got some credibility to it, right,

482
00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:02.800
But as you watched, and I
even do presentations on this, but

483
00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:08.000
over the period of time, the
real UFO subject became blurred by all of

484
00:37:08.039 --> 00:37:13.760
the distractions that go around it.
And that's you know, I'm talking about

485
00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:16.960
the fact that you know, it's
it's the mythology that's been created around this

486
00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:22.519
whole thing now is far different than
anything that we had back in that day,

487
00:37:23.239 --> 00:37:30.119
you know, And so you know
that's the sad part because now we'll

488
00:37:30.159 --> 00:37:35.800
spend our times with distractions versus spending
our times on the real UFO or unidentified

489
00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:42.400
objects that we can't explain. It's
funny you say that, because I had

490
00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:47.719
thought that Heinich, you know,
must have really loved Close Encounters because his

491
00:37:49.440 --> 00:37:53.320
involvement, and like you, it's
so accurate as to what happened. And

492
00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:58.559
I love the heck out of that
movie. But I heard from Don Schmidt

493
00:37:58.599 --> 00:38:01.960
Heinich didn't really like the movie,
and I can totally see it because of

494
00:38:02.079 --> 00:38:07.599
that. He felt that it was
sensationalized and it wasn't real. They went

495
00:38:07.679 --> 00:38:13.320
too far away departing from the actual, real, live events. And you

496
00:38:13.360 --> 00:38:20.800
know, having been on television like
you have and having your work be misrepresented

497
00:38:20.960 --> 00:38:25.400
by entertainers, I can identify with
the way Heinek would have felt. Yeah,

498
00:38:25.559 --> 00:38:30.000
and he did. I mean I
had conversations with him, and he

499
00:38:30.039 --> 00:38:32.239
did say that I actually had a
chance to go up and be in his

500
00:38:32.320 --> 00:38:37.880
house with him and Meme uh huh, And in fact Mark Rudiger was there

501
00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:40.360
was but I mean, yeah,
I mean conversations with him was if he

502
00:38:40.559 --> 00:38:44.559
was disappointed. We all have that
same thing where we go in and we

503
00:38:44.960 --> 00:38:49.239
provide all us wonderful information, and
we want these recreations to be you know,

504
00:38:50.039 --> 00:38:52.159
exact. We'd like to be able
to see real cases presented, and

505
00:38:52.719 --> 00:38:58.639
then Hollywood and producers and various other
people turn it into something completely different,

506
00:38:59.079 --> 00:39:01.599
and then you're saying, well,
well, that's not what happened, you

507
00:39:01.639 --> 00:39:06.920
know, And then they're out there
like either creating another story and adding to

508
00:39:07.039 --> 00:39:14.199
the mythology that separates us even further
from the real legitimate data that you rarely

509
00:39:14.239 --> 00:39:16.480
read the case up front, you'd
see that it was this way, and

510
00:39:16.519 --> 00:39:21.159
then you'd find out that it's portrayed, you know, they broadened the story,

511
00:39:21.239 --> 00:39:22.480
and you know, I mean we
see that all the time. And

512
00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:28.159
even though it's recreations you see on
television, which are just pure bs,

513
00:39:28.199 --> 00:39:31.440
I mean, they just they basically
just devastate and create. In other words,

514
00:39:31.440 --> 00:39:36.000
you could see like the cash Landrum
case, where there might be blue

515
00:39:36.039 --> 00:39:38.400
sparks because they portray it blue sparks
jumping out of the bottom of the thing.

516
00:39:38.440 --> 00:39:40.840
Well there weren't any blue sparks.
I mean, it's like that didn't

517
00:39:40.840 --> 00:39:44.880
have that. And then so then
you'd see like, well, people saying,

518
00:39:44.920 --> 00:39:46.559
hey, I saw something that looks
like but I had blue sparks out

519
00:39:46.599 --> 00:39:49.920
of it. You know, Okay, well there you go, yeah,

520
00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:53.920
and it's off. And then the
world of the internet is just abysmal in

521
00:39:53.960 --> 00:40:00.320
a sense of passing around truth.
More untruth gets passed around every day than

522
00:40:00.360 --> 00:40:05.079
any truth you can get out there, so we don't And then you know,

523
00:40:05.119 --> 00:40:07.800
I'll say this right now, I'm
going to be presenting. I was

524
00:40:07.880 --> 00:40:15.079
asked by a visiting professor that's coming
to Huntsville to speak at the University of

525
00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:23.199
Alabama Huntsville in an honors college class
coming up next month. And I'm excited

526
00:40:23.239 --> 00:40:27.880
about it because one of the topics
that we're going to be talking I'm going

527
00:40:27.960 --> 00:40:31.360
to be able to use. The
subject goes extremely well with it is he

528
00:40:31.400 --> 00:40:37.079
wants to be able to take his
psychology class and to teach critical thinking skills.

529
00:40:37.119 --> 00:40:42.599
And one of the things that I
know because I've also been in the

530
00:40:42.639 --> 00:40:45.920
training and development field. In fact, I was with a company or an

531
00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:52.239
organization called American Society for Training and
Development, and I became a regional director

532
00:40:52.320 --> 00:40:55.480
up in the New England area.
But we started to we to study where

533
00:40:55.480 --> 00:41:00.840
we found out that we started to
see that critical thinking was one of the

534
00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:05.440
things that we were missing in schools. And so here you see those two

535
00:41:05.440 --> 00:41:07.719
and this was like you know,
you know several This is like maybe thirty

536
00:41:07.760 --> 00:41:10.920
years and twenty twenty five years ago
or something. Anyway, the bottom line

537
00:41:10.960 --> 00:41:16.199
is we see that that's out there
and continuing to evolve and worsen to the

538
00:41:16.280 --> 00:41:23.360
point where you don't have you have
either a gullbility you know, I accept

539
00:41:23.360 --> 00:41:28.480
everything because it's on the internet,
or but you don't have any critical thinking,

540
00:41:28.599 --> 00:41:30.199
you know, then go talk.
So we're I'm going to go over

541
00:41:30.239 --> 00:41:35.199
and present them, you know,
the UFO information. Uh, I'm going

542
00:41:35.239 --> 00:41:37.400
to talk about and we're going to
walk through a case. I thought i'd

543
00:41:37.440 --> 00:41:40.679
use the Iddia case since I don't
be taught about it and just say,

544
00:41:40.679 --> 00:41:45.039
okay, let's let's walk through a
case and then to see the kinds of

545
00:41:45.079 --> 00:41:47.360
things that they can come up with
and to see how they think and to

546
00:41:47.440 --> 00:41:52.440
try to promote that. So I'm
excited about that. But I guess what

547
00:41:52.480 --> 00:41:58.079
I'm trying to say is we have
people that watch those lousy shows that are

548
00:41:58.119 --> 00:42:04.920
on that are misproduced and not correct
and people accept them and they without question

549
00:42:05.199 --> 00:42:07.320
that's what I saw it. It's
therefore it is, you know, hm,

550
00:42:07.679 --> 00:42:15.480
and so it's very sad that we
have that. Yeah, I think,

551
00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:17.800
but you know, go ahead,
oh, just I was gonna say

552
00:42:17.800 --> 00:42:22.800
my last guess. I think,
as you know, Robert Hastings expressed his

553
00:42:23.800 --> 00:42:30.159
frustration and even he even used a
bad word, yes, and I applaud

554
00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:36.320
his bad word because because he's he's
so down to earth and he expresses,

555
00:42:36.639 --> 00:42:37.960
you know, with you know,
kind of like this is the way it

556
00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:42.519
is, you know, I'm sorry, you know, it's just horrible.

557
00:42:42.840 --> 00:42:47.719
Yeah. Well, at least Close
Encounters was a fiction movie, whereas a

558
00:42:47.719 --> 00:42:52.159
lot of these shows, like like
the ones like I think, what is

559
00:42:52.239 --> 00:42:59.639
generating your frustration? My frustrations Robert
hastings frustrations are these modern television shows which

560
00:42:59.840 --> 00:43:06.159
port themselves, which try to say
that they're documentarian or their journalistic when they're

561
00:43:06.280 --> 00:43:13.360
actually largely fictional. Yes, yeah, completely agree. You know, you

562
00:43:13.360 --> 00:43:19.400
don't know how many people saw the
movie even fourth uh, the fourth encounter?

563
00:43:19.480 --> 00:43:22.599
What was the fourth kind? The
fourth yeah, the fourth kind and

564
00:43:22.760 --> 00:43:29.320
believe that that whole story was actually
true and argued with me about the fact

565
00:43:29.320 --> 00:43:30.880
that that's that's the way it is. That that is the way it is.

566
00:43:31.079 --> 00:43:35.119
And and I'm going like, I'm
sorry, it was a movie.

567
00:43:35.639 --> 00:43:37.800
Yeah, it was fake, people, it was faked, and you know,

568
00:43:37.880 --> 00:43:40.880
and then you can tell people that
and it's like they still don't want

569
00:43:40.920 --> 00:43:45.159
to accept it. I have.
I've had a you know, my own

570
00:43:45.199 --> 00:43:51.039
experience looking and seeing the Google loon
balloon take off from here in Huntsville.

571
00:43:51.599 --> 00:43:54.239
It was reported for four days as
it was moving up and I watched it

572
00:43:54.280 --> 00:43:59.760
in CMS for the New Funds database. I watched it and tracked it every

573
00:43:59.800 --> 00:44:05.239
day, and as it progressively moved
up from me to Tennessee, to Kentucky

574
00:44:05.360 --> 00:44:08.559
to and it it ended up in
Pennsylvania and then eventually it ended up in

575
00:44:08.599 --> 00:44:13.679
Canada. But this thing was reported
as a UFO along the way. And

576
00:44:13.920 --> 00:44:15.719
don't you know, I mean,
when I explained to everybody that it was

577
00:44:15.760 --> 00:44:20.480
a Google loon balloon, it was
launched from Huntsville, and it was a

578
00:44:20.559 --> 00:44:24.000
NASA Engineer balloon, solar balloon,
they didn't accept it. I'm sorry,

579
00:44:24.199 --> 00:44:29.280
it's it was a UFO. It
was it was it was an alien spacecraft

580
00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:34.639
and you're wrong. Yeah, It's
funny because one of my first cases as

581
00:44:34.639 --> 00:44:39.440
a as a UFO filled researcher with
Moufin was a video case. And we

582
00:44:39.519 --> 00:44:45.039
watched this video and it was amazing. It was these white objects in the

583
00:44:45.079 --> 00:44:47.280
sky and none of us could figure
out what it was. It wasn't birds,

584
00:44:47.280 --> 00:44:52.159
it wasn't planes. They were bright
objects, you know, five or

585
00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:54.519
six of them, and it was
shocking. Well, I took that video

586
00:44:54.679 --> 00:44:59.280
and I wasn't that great with video
editing at the time, not that I'm

587
00:44:59.280 --> 00:45:02.559
a masterp it now. Luckily we
have Michael here who is. But I

588
00:45:02.960 --> 00:45:07.199
was able to zoom in and I
could see the flapping of the wings and

589
00:45:07.239 --> 00:45:09.519
it was birds. It was duck
butts, is what I told everybody.

590
00:45:10.039 --> 00:45:15.039
It's because they had just flown through
some rain and they were then the sun

591
00:45:15.159 --> 00:45:20.159
was hitting on him and they were
just really brightly lit. And when I

592
00:45:20.199 --> 00:45:22.639
sent the email to everybody, hey, these are duck butts, they didn't

593
00:45:22.639 --> 00:45:24.920
want to believe me. And then
I showed them, well, look look

594
00:45:24.920 --> 00:45:29.480
at this particular one. This is
a duck. Well that may be a

595
00:45:29.599 --> 00:45:32.239
duck, but the others weren't,
so I don't know. I guess sometimes

596
00:45:32.239 --> 00:45:39.679
we get so invested that this had
an idea that it's hard to step back

597
00:45:39.719 --> 00:45:44.400
and say, oh man, we
were wrong about that one. Yep.

598
00:45:45.159 --> 00:45:47.159
And to this day, I mean
it's like, you know, you got

599
00:45:47.159 --> 00:45:51.159
people out there, like a good
example, I was, I was doing

600
00:45:51.199 --> 00:45:55.320
some reading backup some old literature that
I had the dealt with. I actually

601
00:45:55.320 --> 00:46:00.880
got the meat Major Hector Quinella when
he was sold as wow at the blue

602
00:46:00.880 --> 00:46:02.360
Book. It was the last guy
to run blue Book. You got it.

603
00:46:02.440 --> 00:46:06.920
He closed the doors and uh and
I you know, of course the

604
00:46:06.960 --> 00:46:08.159
other thing was for me it was
I got to know a number of them

605
00:46:08.400 --> 00:46:13.199
well enough that uh, in fact, I got they also sit on some

606
00:46:13.320 --> 00:46:15.239
cases that I was on where I
had a blue Book officer next to me.

607
00:46:15.840 --> 00:46:21.239
Wow, so I had I've had
one of those like rare experiences that

608
00:46:21.280 --> 00:46:23.639
before they closed the project. But
uh yeah, but anyway, uh,

609
00:46:23.800 --> 00:46:28.159
in fact, to me it was
exciting was that they let me use the

610
00:46:28.239 --> 00:46:31.079
radar approach control to be able to
contact them if I had an object that

611
00:46:31.119 --> 00:46:36.840
I was like looking in really wow. Yeah. So I mean it sounds

612
00:46:36.880 --> 00:46:39.519
like, you know, this isn't
some good insight because a lot of people

613
00:46:39.559 --> 00:46:43.000
feel, you know, blue Book
was a cover up. It was just

614
00:46:43.039 --> 00:46:49.599
a cover. I mean, what
what didn't feel to do was its whole

615
00:46:49.639 --> 00:46:52.679
thing was to go out and to
just like almost like in the context of

616
00:46:52.760 --> 00:46:58.719
MUFON, go out, get data, fill out a form, make sure

617
00:46:58.719 --> 00:47:02.480
that the form is filled out completely, bring it back, stick it in

618
00:47:02.599 --> 00:47:07.760
hypothetically and their own like database,
whether it be files or whatever like that.

619
00:47:07.280 --> 00:47:12.880
But they were never really there to
go and to take the material and

620
00:47:12.960 --> 00:47:19.000
look look at it and do the
research on it. Which is why Quinella

621
00:47:19.039 --> 00:47:22.039
was like saying, you know,
if you can find somebody that would actually

622
00:47:22.039 --> 00:47:24.920
do something with this data, I'd
be happy to provide it. And so

623
00:47:25.519 --> 00:47:31.440
when he got when he got the
University of Colorado project underway, he was

624
00:47:31.480 --> 00:47:35.599
extremely you know, wanting to pass
it along. And of course, oh

625
00:47:35.599 --> 00:47:37.679
by that time, I mean,
you know, he's so, you know,

626
00:47:38.239 --> 00:47:42.480
I want to get out of this
thing. I mean I want to

627
00:47:42.519 --> 00:47:45.559
you know, it's not going anywhere. We don't need to do this anymore.

628
00:47:45.599 --> 00:47:47.880
And in the public, I mean
they were he wasn't even getting all

629
00:47:49.079 --> 00:47:51.360
the good sightings. I mean it's
like, you know, if you took

630
00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:53.440
a look at him, they were
small office with a secretary at a clerk

631
00:47:53.559 --> 00:47:58.679
or this and that you know,
as it's already been pointed out, you

632
00:47:58.719 --> 00:48:02.159
know, even by the ball Underman
memo that that all the legitimate you know

633
00:48:02.719 --> 00:48:07.039
stuff will be passed off to others, you know, and he didn't even

634
00:48:07.039 --> 00:48:12.519
get those cases because even in the
classified world he wouldn't even get him His

635
00:48:12.639 --> 00:48:19.760
staff wasn't even able to get the
real classified stuff. So so hypothetically,

636
00:48:19.840 --> 00:48:22.320
I mean, he's just getting this
stuff that's low visibility and it wasn't going

637
00:48:22.320 --> 00:48:25.320
anywhere, nobody was studying it.
He was able to get a you know,

638
00:48:25.360 --> 00:48:30.239
the Condon thing was probably put in
and help being fostered by the CIA,

639
00:48:30.400 --> 00:48:35.639
which by the way that they were
doing that since the Robertson panel and

640
00:48:35.639 --> 00:48:37.440
and so you had the CIA helping
to put the squelch on it, you

641
00:48:37.480 --> 00:48:42.199
had and they just you know,
eventually were able to get out of it

642
00:48:42.239 --> 00:48:45.119
because it was costing taxpayers money,
not going anywhere, nobody was doing anything

643
00:48:45.119 --> 00:48:52.199
with it, and they weren't exactly
coming up with anything that was you know,

644
00:48:52.639 --> 00:48:58.960
proved that we were being visited.
And uh and so with that being

645
00:48:59.000 --> 00:49:01.639
said, you know, I'm and
them had you know, constant you know

646
00:49:02.239 --> 00:49:06.000
run ins. You know, he
was trying to Nightcap would be out there

647
00:49:06.119 --> 00:49:07.880
trying to say, well, the
Air Force isn't doing this or not doing

648
00:49:07.880 --> 00:49:13.000
that, and sure they weren't.
But but at the same time, you

649
00:49:13.039 --> 00:49:16.800
know, it's like there was this
lack of really truly interest in this subject

650
00:49:16.840 --> 00:49:20.840
because it was really looked at as
big. And that's true even today.

651
00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:23.280
By the way I worked in the
military world. I've been in it since,

652
00:49:23.440 --> 00:49:27.679
you know, for God's sakes,
I started when I went to as

653
00:49:27.719 --> 00:49:32.199
I'm in a contractor for with the
US Army Material Command, which is the

654
00:49:32.199 --> 00:49:37.079
corollary to the Air Force Material Command
up in Dayton that actually had the Project

655
00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:43.920
ULBO. So on those on those
signs. Like, first of all,

656
00:49:44.039 --> 00:49:49.960
I guess, because I want to
get into this is did your work your

657
00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:57.239
early interest in UFOs influence uh your
career choices? And uh yeah, if

658
00:49:57.239 --> 00:50:00.559
you could share what you do and
have to an as a career. Yeah,

659
00:50:00.599 --> 00:50:05.519
So I mean, I guess I
was always interested in the military.

660
00:50:05.559 --> 00:50:07.880
I mean I wasn't you know.
I actually tried to go into the military

661
00:50:08.320 --> 00:50:10.920
when I got to college, and
I think that, you know, I

662
00:50:10.960 --> 00:50:15.440
think on some level I was interested
in knowing what they knew, and I

663
00:50:15.480 --> 00:50:17.880
thought, well, maybe I can
become and so I was in the Air

664
00:50:17.880 --> 00:50:22.599
Force ROTC and when I was in
college, and I was in it for

665
00:50:22.639 --> 00:50:27.320
a very short time because guess what, they basically said that I've got a

666
00:50:27.320 --> 00:50:30.119
heart murmur romatic fever. You're not
allowed to go into the service. Okay,

667
00:50:30.199 --> 00:50:34.880
great, So that thus ended my
career there. And then I kind

668
00:50:34.880 --> 00:50:37.280
of like, you know, just
dropped the ball, let it go.

669
00:50:37.440 --> 00:50:42.159
And and you know, of course, everybody in this field, you know,

670
00:50:42.239 --> 00:50:45.000
you can't make a living off of
being a ufologist unless you're going to

671
00:50:45.079 --> 00:50:47.920
go out around, you know,
even you know, writing a whole bunch

672
00:50:47.920 --> 00:50:52.880
of books and maybe the Nick Redfern
method or something like that, you know,

673
00:50:52.079 --> 00:50:54.400
or whatever. But you know,
I do, even then you have

674
00:50:54.480 --> 00:50:59.239
to compliment your your income. And
I just couldn't make it. So I

675
00:50:59.239 --> 00:51:02.119
had to go up and get career
and I couldn't be UFOs. And so

676
00:51:02.280 --> 00:51:06.239
eventually I got into the it world
because I have a strong interest in the

677
00:51:06.239 --> 00:51:08.639
IT world. And then well and
behold, when I was in the DC

678
00:51:08.800 --> 00:51:14.719
area, I was asked to go
and to do some training or something like

679
00:51:14.760 --> 00:51:15.840
that. It was with a company
that was a training company. In fact,

680
00:51:15.840 --> 00:51:22.320
I was head of the training and
I went over and the next thing

681
00:51:22.320 --> 00:51:24.679
I know is that they wanted me
to come and be a trainer there and

682
00:51:24.719 --> 00:51:28.760
that turned out to be the ar
the Army Material Command. I thought,

683
00:51:29.000 --> 00:51:32.440
wow, that's pretty interesting. So
here I am. I'm an IT kind

684
00:51:32.480 --> 00:51:37.679
of guy that's working with a whole
variety of companies depending upon which contract wins.

685
00:51:38.280 --> 00:51:43.559
And I've been a defense contractor.
I'm working in the IT world.

686
00:51:43.599 --> 00:51:46.800
I was working with even the Boozel
and Hamilton, which is the same company

687
00:51:46.800 --> 00:51:52.440
that Edward Snowden was in, and
you know, and I've and I've earned

688
00:51:52.480 --> 00:51:57.679
the trust of the government, you
know, from the standpoint of all these

689
00:51:57.760 --> 00:52:01.559
years doing my IT work, and
they value them the work that I do,

690
00:52:01.679 --> 00:52:05.039
and I helped them out in a
lot of different way. We're doing

691
00:52:05.079 --> 00:52:09.800
cloud computing where we're actually doing data
center consolidation, and I helped play in

692
00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:15.880
on that. So I'm at the
IT strategical level for the Army Material Command

693
00:52:16.199 --> 00:52:20.079
and I've become a you know,
pretty much known there. But you know,

694
00:52:20.239 --> 00:52:22.639
they also know, and I don't
hide it that I'm into have an

695
00:52:22.639 --> 00:52:27.480
interest in UFOs. I mean,
Mike Cube is decorated with UFO paraphernalia.

696
00:52:27.639 --> 00:52:30.320
Pole you know, people know that
that's where I'm at. You know,

697
00:52:30.440 --> 00:52:34.280
I've I've had a number of other
people that I worked around. I had

698
00:52:34.320 --> 00:52:39.440
a friend of mine who that his
job was to monitor conversations that were possibly

699
00:52:39.480 --> 00:52:45.280
coming out of Area fifty one.
Really yeah, I mean he was His

700
00:52:45.400 --> 00:52:47.519
job was to go out there and
to see if he could pick up any

701
00:52:47.559 --> 00:52:52.039
conversations he was out there. And
they do that to be able to ensure

702
00:52:52.079 --> 00:52:57.119
that there's no leaks coming from off
the post and stuff like that, and

703
00:52:57.159 --> 00:52:59.960
that's what his job was. And
so I've had conversations like that. I've

704
00:53:00.119 --> 00:53:02.679
talked to other people in the military
there. Most of them are very curious,

705
00:53:02.840 --> 00:53:09.400
but there's absolutely nothing that I see
in the entire command that shows any

706
00:53:09.639 --> 00:53:15.559
remote connection or involvement in anything that
looks like smells like UFO. So I

707
00:53:15.280 --> 00:53:20.360
have kind of like the same experience
that John Alexander has when he's you know,

708
00:53:20.679 --> 00:53:22.559
if you listen to or read his
books, he says, well,

709
00:53:22.639 --> 00:53:24.760
you know, I used to work
in the Army of Material Command in the

710
00:53:24.880 --> 00:53:28.519
R and D world, and he
worked in inscom and other places, and

711
00:53:29.079 --> 00:53:31.480
you look around you don't see any
interest in that subject at all. And

712
00:53:31.559 --> 00:53:36.079
so I can you know, nobody's
bothered to ask me what I know what

713
00:53:36.159 --> 00:53:38.760
I do that, And I'm going
like, Okay, they really don't have

714
00:53:38.800 --> 00:53:43.880
a care in the world about it, and it really hasn't done anything for

715
00:53:44.000 --> 00:53:49.559
them, and certainly if there is
any remote interest, it's like, you

716
00:53:49.599 --> 00:53:52.280
know, my god, I don't
know where they're hiding because I've been all

717
00:53:52.280 --> 00:53:55.199
over the command and I can't see
anything that looks like or you know,

718
00:53:55.400 --> 00:54:00.320
addresses that. That's why, you
know, I've always maintained that if there's

719
00:54:00.360 --> 00:54:04.400
any body that really cares about this
subject at all, it's going to be

720
00:54:05.159 --> 00:54:08.320
you know, a maybe some sort
of a very close, old, highly

721
00:54:08.400 --> 00:54:13.480
secret, compartmentalized group of people.
And then you know, if there's any

722
00:54:13.679 --> 00:54:16.239
R and D work, it's not
in the government world, it's out in

723
00:54:16.320 --> 00:54:22.239
the in the commercial world. It's
it's like the Northrops and all that stuff

724
00:54:22.239 --> 00:54:24.480
like that, who are in the
Black Project world, and none of that

725
00:54:24.559 --> 00:54:30.079
gets conveyed or translated over to the
uh the people, like, for example,

726
00:54:30.199 --> 00:54:32.880
the propulsion you might come up with
in the in the in the black

727
00:54:32.880 --> 00:54:37.760
world is not going to be shared
over in the commercial world. And that's

728
00:54:37.760 --> 00:54:42.760
sad. So NASA can't benefit if
we came up with anti gravity devices in

729
00:54:42.800 --> 00:54:46.760
the one world with the other one. So uh, you know, so

730
00:54:46.880 --> 00:54:51.960
that's that's the problem that you see, and and and some of the stuff

731
00:54:52.000 --> 00:54:54.880
that I'm aware of. But it's
been a great career. I've enjoyed working

732
00:54:55.079 --> 00:55:00.119
there. Uh. Like I said
that they tolerated upologists within them, and

733
00:55:00.199 --> 00:55:04.119
I'm that's okay. I mean,
I'm uh, I've seen too much an

734
00:55:04.199 --> 00:55:07.159
experience too much that I'm not gonna
start now. And you know, I've

735
00:55:07.159 --> 00:55:10.760
got the security clearances and all that
stuff like that, but I can't possibly

736
00:55:10.800 --> 00:55:15.360
even begin to tell you that anything
that shows anything that looks like smells like

737
00:55:15.360 --> 00:55:19.719
a UFO m hm. And on
that note, I mean, just with

738
00:55:19.800 --> 00:55:23.199
your years of experience, you mentioned
the bowl under memo where it was like

739
00:55:23.320 --> 00:55:30.760
essentially anything that was a national security
concern was sent somewhere else other than blue

740
00:55:30.760 --> 00:55:35.840
Book. Yes. So but the
problem is, and I don't know that

741
00:55:35.960 --> 00:55:43.119
anybody knows for sure, uh where
those went. Yeah, well you have,

742
00:55:43.400 --> 00:55:45.960
you know exactly I think that,
you know, it's it's hard to

743
00:55:46.000 --> 00:55:50.559
find out, you know, I've
seen I've seen speculation that it went to

744
00:55:51.000 --> 00:55:53.159
the Navy. Uh, and that
might have been in you know, the

745
00:55:53.400 --> 00:55:57.760
the intelligence world of the Navy,
And I mean there's parts of that that

746
00:55:57.840 --> 00:56:00.280
can make sense and stuff like that, because as it's you know, but

747
00:56:01.199 --> 00:56:05.920
you can't really seem to trap down
things. It's not like that there's an

748
00:56:05.920 --> 00:56:08.880
easy paper trail to find that tells
you where those little nuggets would be.

749
00:56:09.880 --> 00:56:14.239
To me, what I've always believed
is that, you know, the DARPA

750
00:56:14.320 --> 00:56:19.000
world. DARPA is one of those
things that came about in the like nineteen

751
00:56:19.159 --> 00:56:22.599
sixty time frame. In uh,
before that it was ARPA, you know,

752
00:56:22.679 --> 00:56:28.760
and anyway, so but anyway,
so it would have done things like

753
00:56:28.880 --> 00:56:32.400
you know, encouraging uh, you
know, corporations and things like that go

754
00:56:32.480 --> 00:56:35.760
off to go off in a certain
direction. So in other words, I

755
00:56:35.800 --> 00:56:37.239
get it. Let's say I've got
a crash and I got material from the

756
00:56:37.239 --> 00:56:40.320
crash. I would be able to
take that material and probably you know,

757
00:56:40.360 --> 00:56:43.320
I say, hey, look,
DARPA, I look at this here,

758
00:56:43.519 --> 00:56:46.199
and that DARPA would go out and
create a contact or contract or put it

759
00:56:46.239 --> 00:56:52.559
out a request for investigation or an
information and stuff like that, and you

760
00:56:52.559 --> 00:56:55.599
would have had a whole bunch of
people providing new papers that would have been

761
00:56:55.599 --> 00:57:00.719
collecting the R and D stuff,
you know that type of information. Plus

762
00:57:01.199 --> 00:57:06.519
you've got you know, like Foreign
Technology Division at right PAT and you've got

763
00:57:06.559 --> 00:57:08.679
like you know here, you've got
in Huntsville, you've got missil and Space

764
00:57:08.719 --> 00:57:15.440
Intelligence Center MISSIC. You have another
of these places. This is where they

765
00:57:15.480 --> 00:57:19.519
collect the debris and stuff like that
and they re engineer it. And that's

766
00:57:19.559 --> 00:57:22.119
what their job is, to re
engineer stuff to see if they can tear

767
00:57:22.119 --> 00:57:23.239
it apart, figure out how it
runs. And that's what we do.

768
00:57:23.760 --> 00:57:28.440
So and every government on the planet
does the same kind of thing, so

769
00:57:28.480 --> 00:57:31.639
it's no surprise. And so people
know though who are listening, they're talking

770
00:57:31.679 --> 00:57:37.880
about like a Russian uh maybe satellite
or missile or something. Taking that and

771
00:57:38.199 --> 00:57:44.079
back engineering that correct. Yeah,
we get another words, a missile that

772
00:57:44.360 --> 00:57:46.800
came down might have been a scud
or something like that. The scud gets

773
00:57:46.800 --> 00:57:51.159
brought back, We tear it apart
and we look at it. So the

774
00:57:51.239 --> 00:57:54.800
nature of what we do with debris
and and all that stuff like that has

775
00:57:54.920 --> 00:57:59.800
passed along. If we collected a
new kind of gun, for example,

776
00:57:59.840 --> 00:58:02.199
and that would go over to the
R and D people that would be working

777
00:58:02.199 --> 00:58:06.039
with it, and the would get
passed off to them. And uh,

778
00:58:06.079 --> 00:58:08.280
and then you know that a lot
of those R and D shops or contract

779
00:58:08.320 --> 00:58:13.400
companies their contract sheds, so they
go off and they do their whatever they're

780
00:58:13.440 --> 00:58:15.960
they're doing, they're going to do
with it to re engineer it. So

781
00:58:15.639 --> 00:58:20.920
now people see that as being the
mysterious government and all this other wonderful stuff.

782
00:58:20.920 --> 00:58:23.239
But you know, the bottom line
is that every day you've got these

783
00:58:23.239 --> 00:58:28.800
people that are out there that they're
helping to do something to protect us,

784
00:58:29.719 --> 00:58:35.119
and that's their purpose is to defend
us. And and so I have to

785
00:58:35.159 --> 00:58:39.199
applaud them and support everything that they
do because the things that they come up

786
00:58:39.239 --> 00:58:44.599
with are only there to help protect
this country and the people in it,

787
00:58:44.719 --> 00:58:47.679
you know, and so more power
to them, and I applaud that kind

788
00:58:47.719 --> 00:58:51.360
of level of concern. Just like
even you know, if you go back

789
00:58:51.400 --> 00:58:54.480
to Roswell Alejandro, I mean it's
like, you know, was it right

790
00:58:54.559 --> 00:58:58.000
that they came in with a cover
story? Your dog gone right? It

791
00:58:58.079 --> 00:59:00.800
was with the right thing. I
mean, it's it's too bad that they

792
00:59:00.800 --> 00:59:04.519
came up with multiple stories. But
but the bottom line was that you know,

793
00:59:04.760 --> 00:59:09.400
we already had soviets that have had
already penetrated a lot of our even

794
00:59:09.400 --> 00:59:15.519
our defense areas and and our government. And don't you know that the moment

795
00:59:15.559 --> 00:59:20.519
you had this thing where there was
a disc clot every government around the planet

796
00:59:21.159 --> 00:59:27.360
was already asking their spies to get
the information. Right, so put it

797
00:59:27.400 --> 00:59:31.320
to rest, stop it and deflect
that kind of thing and create a cover

798
00:59:31.440 --> 00:59:36.800
story. And that's exactly what happened
there. Was it a nice thing to

799
00:59:36.840 --> 00:59:39.599
do, well, not to upologists, but to the government. Yeah,

800
00:59:39.639 --> 00:59:44.400
maybe you needed to do that because
every spy out there is collecting the debris

801
00:59:44.400 --> 00:59:47.800
and going to do the same thing
to you that you want to do to

802
00:59:47.880 --> 00:59:54.119
them. And so you have a
feeling that what do you think did crash

803
00:59:54.159 --> 01:00:00.920
in in Roswell? Well? I
mean I think that legitimately, if you

804
01:00:00.920 --> 01:00:04.079
you know, if you take a
look at all the collected you know,

805
01:00:04.320 --> 01:00:07.400
evidence or testimony, let me put
it that way, the testimony that you

806
01:00:07.559 --> 01:00:15.760
heard, and the sheer volume of
the monitoring that went on of people,

807
01:00:15.159 --> 01:00:21.280
and the you know, the threats
that were made and everything else that that

808
01:00:21.400 --> 01:00:25.000
you know, of course that Kerrie
and Schmidt had collected in terms of their

809
01:00:25.039 --> 01:00:31.800
work as well as others. You
know, I mean that something unknown legitimately

810
01:00:31.840 --> 01:00:39.159
came down there and there were beings
of some sort that it didn't match anything

811
01:00:39.320 --> 01:00:44.039
from this earth, and so I
really believe that there is something to it.

812
01:00:45.079 --> 01:00:50.159
You don't see that level of monitoring
of conversations and threats and everything else,

813
01:00:50.239 --> 01:00:55.400
which go way beyond anything that you
and I would experience even even today.

814
01:00:55.440 --> 01:01:00.239
I mean, at least as we
believe that went on for you know,

815
01:01:00.440 --> 01:01:06.679
years, you know, and so
there was something there, and I

816
01:01:06.760 --> 01:01:09.280
believe that there was a real event. I think that it was the materials

817
01:01:09.880 --> 01:01:14.880
that were collected were confiscated. I
think it was taken much like I told

818
01:01:14.920 --> 01:01:16.320
you before, I said that it
goes to an R and D shop,

819
01:01:17.320 --> 01:01:20.719
And guess where an R and D
shop is, well up in Dayton,

820
01:01:20.719 --> 01:01:24.440
Ohio at right Pad Airfield, and
take it up there. It collect as

821
01:01:24.519 --> 01:01:28.840
much as you can, and probably
there it got filtered out to other places.

822
01:01:29.639 --> 01:01:35.679
But tell Memorial Institute was under contract
with the Air Force at the time,

823
01:01:35.760 --> 01:01:39.760
and that's a think tank, and
so quite logically, since they played

824
01:01:39.760 --> 01:01:46.440
a heavy role in shape memory alloy
development, which happens to be similar to

825
01:01:46.480 --> 01:01:52.719
the memory metal that was found in
Roswell, that we suddenly see that in

826
01:01:52.800 --> 01:01:58.280
nineteen sixties that kind of shape memory
alloys and these other kinds of things coming

827
01:01:58.320 --> 01:02:04.280
out that are bendable and metal.
It bends and folds back and comes back

828
01:02:04.280 --> 01:02:07.519
to the original shape. We start
to see that happening. Knittin all nickel

829
01:02:07.639 --> 01:02:15.039
titanium alloy is is an example of
that right now, All that nittan al,

830
01:02:15.119 --> 01:02:17.119
I mean, it's it's part of
our R and D work. So

831
01:02:17.119 --> 01:02:21.079
it's a lot of stuff that might
have been found and collected was passed off

832
01:02:21.119 --> 01:02:24.840
to again to defense contractors. Whether
it was through Philip Corso or not,

833
01:02:24.960 --> 01:02:28.559
I don't know, but I mean
I still think that it was passed around

834
01:02:28.599 --> 01:02:31.400
and and it would have been used
or leveraged in some capacity. And that's

835
01:02:31.440 --> 01:02:35.519
what we do. That's what the
government, that's what the military does.

836
01:02:35.840 --> 01:02:39.079
Right So, and for people who
might not remember or know that Philip Corso

837
01:02:39.320 --> 01:02:45.320
was a guy who worked at R
and D, worked at the Pentagon,

838
01:02:45.480 --> 01:02:50.599
he claimed that that's what he did. He was given the Risewell material and

839
01:02:51.559 --> 01:02:57.360
gave it off to various contractors.
And it would seem an advantage to contractors

840
01:02:57.480 --> 01:03:05.119
is they're not set check to FOIA
and they can have people sign gag orders

841
01:03:07.320 --> 01:03:10.119
and you could be sued for lots
of money if you talked about something.

842
01:03:10.719 --> 01:03:15.360
Yeah, exactly, and you know, and now all this is trust me,

843
01:03:15.440 --> 01:03:22.960
it's all speculation because you can't you
won't find a written transfer of we

844
01:03:23.000 --> 01:03:29.519
haven't found it yet. Yeah,
the handbill that shipped this roswell debris to

845
01:03:29.599 --> 01:03:31.679
this place to this place to this
place. It's it's it's only on the

846
01:03:31.719 --> 01:03:37.519
basis of you know, repeatable stories
that somewhat you can look at and you

847
01:03:37.519 --> 01:03:40.360
can say, okay, well that
makes sense, that makes sense, that

848
01:03:40.440 --> 01:03:45.199
doesn't make sense, and you call
that out and you and and that's the

849
01:03:45.239 --> 01:03:51.519
way we have all had to work. It's occasionally that you know, That's

850
01:03:51.559 --> 01:03:54.519
the nice thing about Robert Hastings is
he's been able to find a document,

851
01:03:54.559 --> 01:04:01.159
paper trail that helps him out,
which is great. You know Len Screenfield,

852
01:04:01.239 --> 01:04:04.480
for example, when he was doing
all his collection on crash retrievals,

853
01:04:05.159 --> 01:04:13.320
had a lot of testimonials with a
lot of different people, but short on

854
01:04:14.000 --> 01:04:19.039
documents. And that's where again it's
the frustration. And so if you don't

855
01:04:19.039 --> 01:04:21.559
have a paper trail, it's like
hard to get it, and then you

856
01:04:21.599 --> 01:04:27.599
have to rely on getting additional credible
sources to validate that you might have heard

857
01:04:27.639 --> 01:04:30.880
from that, because again, if
I go talk to five people, I'll

858
01:04:30.920 --> 01:04:32.679
get different five different stories, right, yeah, which is kind of the

859
01:04:32.679 --> 01:04:38.480
same problem with Roswell. You have
a lot of witnesses, but then skeptics

860
01:04:38.519 --> 01:04:43.360
point out you have a lot of
discrepancies between the testimony. Well, and

861
01:04:43.719 --> 01:04:45.559
you know, I would love them
to do. You know, ever,

862
01:04:45.719 --> 01:04:50.800
a UFO investigation or a criminal investigation, you're always going to get discrepancies between

863
01:04:50.840 --> 01:04:58.000
people. So so you use the
two people that did have a different story

864
01:04:58.159 --> 01:05:01.000
as the means to debate and just
credit the rest of the stuff. I'm

865
01:05:01.079 --> 01:05:04.880
sorry, that doesn't work for me. You know, that's not how it

866
01:05:04.920 --> 01:05:13.679
works, and so, you know, too bad. But legitimately we could

867
01:05:13.719 --> 01:05:16.119
just drop the whole thing because everybody's
got an opinion about UFOs. I mean,

868
01:05:16.199 --> 01:05:18.599
that's okay, there's nothing to it, you know. Well, I

869
01:05:18.639 --> 01:05:26.000
do want to move on to the
Puerto Rico case because you were part of

870
01:05:26.039 --> 01:05:28.360
that, and of course we've talked
a lot about it on the show.

871
01:05:28.440 --> 01:05:31.320
We've had Robert on you weren't going
to come to the symposium to talk about

872
01:05:31.360 --> 01:05:38.079
it, but you were off vacationing
in Mexico or something shaping around the beach.

873
01:05:38.199 --> 01:05:43.159
So Robert came to talk about it, Robert Powell. But so that's

874
01:05:43.239 --> 01:05:47.320
unique too because that you have a
video and now it's been confirmed that it

875
01:05:47.400 --> 01:05:54.199
was a homeland security video. Indeed, yeah, we were you know the

876
01:05:54.239 --> 01:05:57.159
whole thing about this video. And
you know as well as I do.

877
01:05:57.280 --> 01:06:00.880
You get some you see videos all
the time. Uh, people pass you

878
01:06:00.960 --> 01:06:04.079
like YouTube links or they pass you
this or that and you take a look

879
01:06:04.079 --> 01:06:09.400
at it and there's of course no, there's no nothing that validates the video

880
01:06:09.800 --> 01:06:13.880
is done by the photographer. There's
nothing that that's out there that that helps

881
01:06:13.920 --> 01:06:18.880
you to legitimates, uh, create
legitimacy around that that that that that video

882
01:06:19.559 --> 01:06:24.440
well, I mean much the same
to us as we had. Uh you

883
01:06:24.480 --> 01:06:29.119
know, we got the video passed
to us very early on, and it's

884
01:06:29.199 --> 01:06:34.599
like, well, okay, well
is this really a homeland security whatever?

885
01:06:34.719 --> 01:06:39.559
You know? And what how do
we know that? You know? And

886
01:06:39.679 --> 01:06:44.719
uh, and so we were extremely
you know, while we thought that it

887
01:06:44.800 --> 01:06:47.760
was like a very compelling video and
it still is a compelling video, it's

888
01:06:47.800 --> 01:06:51.159
just a matter of like, well, how do you validate that this isn't

889
01:06:51.199 --> 01:06:55.639
something that's contrived? And so for
us, it was a very critical thing

890
01:06:55.760 --> 01:06:59.760
too to make sure that we could
validate that. And that's why when you

891
01:06:59.840 --> 01:07:04.199
see when we when we looked at
and got the radar data, the radar

892
01:07:04.400 --> 01:07:11.880
data was able to confirm the fact
that indeed a custom UH and Border Protection

893
01:07:12.239 --> 01:07:18.880
plane did take off at that time
and did fly two circles around the airport

894
01:07:19.159 --> 01:07:28.400
UH and and the times matched up
with with the case. And then you

895
01:07:28.440 --> 01:07:31.679
look at the the codes that come
in for the that and you find out

896
01:07:31.719 --> 01:07:36.760
that the codes that the I D
codes that that come up match what's been

897
01:07:36.800 --> 01:07:43.079
handed over to Customs and Border Protection, so these are that that was able

898
01:07:43.119 --> 01:07:48.719
to be helpful. Then we then
later through thankfully a freedom of information at

899
01:07:49.800 --> 01:07:59.599
UH done by Billy Cox, he
was able to get an actual piece of

900
01:07:59.599 --> 01:08:02.119
information in fact that again validated the
fact that it was one of theirs.

901
01:08:02.480 --> 01:08:05.800
So that was an important piece that
we had to do, is to confirm

902
01:08:05.840 --> 01:08:11.159
that that was the case. And
of course then from there, you know,

903
01:08:11.239 --> 01:08:15.639
it was the we spent you know, two years analyzing the video that

904
01:08:15.760 --> 01:08:18.319
was that was really the whole thing
we were We were really not doing a

905
01:08:18.439 --> 01:08:24.840
case investigation as much as a video
investigation. So we were tackling the video.

906
01:08:25.000 --> 01:08:28.880
What can this be? Can it's
infra red? You know? Wow?

907
01:08:29.239 --> 01:08:30.720
What did all these numbers on the
screen mean? You know? And

908
01:08:30.760 --> 01:08:33.680
there were a lot of numbers around
the screen, and people if they want

909
01:08:33.680 --> 01:08:38.920
to go there, you just go
to explore e x P l O r

910
01:08:39.000 --> 01:08:45.520
E s c U dot org.
Uh, explore s U dot org and

911
01:08:45.560 --> 01:08:47.600
they can you know, you can
see the video. We've got the video

912
01:08:47.640 --> 01:08:50.039
posted up there. We got our
paper posted up there. You got to

913
01:08:50.039 --> 01:08:55.279
see the radar animation that's going on. And so, you know, you

914
01:08:55.359 --> 01:08:58.239
began one of those things where it's
like what is this thing? And and

915
01:08:58.279 --> 01:09:01.760
then can you even determine that?
And you know, and then we how

916
01:09:01.800 --> 01:09:04.840
does the video? What can we
deduce from the video? And so let's

917
01:09:05.079 --> 01:09:10.640
take it and break it into seven
twenty seven frames and look at every single

918
01:09:10.720 --> 01:09:15.560
frame. Let's compute the the We
know that the frame rate was one thirty

919
01:09:15.800 --> 01:09:19.079
a second, so there's gonna be
thirty of these frames it's going to leap

920
01:09:19.119 --> 01:09:23.640
to one second. What does that
give us? And then we had to

921
01:09:23.640 --> 01:09:26.640
go out and learn about the camera. You know, we got to hold

922
01:09:26.680 --> 01:09:29.399
with third. First, we thought
it was a Fleaer camera and then I

923
01:09:29.439 --> 01:09:32.000
went and did some checking on the
the installation and found out that it was

924
01:09:32.039 --> 01:09:38.199
not a fleaar camera and they told
me it was a Westcam L three camera.

925
01:09:38.279 --> 01:09:43.039
And then I went and contacted Westcam
and spoke with them and they confirmed

926
01:09:43.039 --> 01:09:45.840
that it was one of theirs.
And we started to go off there in

927
01:09:45.920 --> 01:09:50.319
terms of getting camera information, and
we got some camera information, and then

928
01:09:50.399 --> 01:09:54.439
over period time, we you know, we we finally were able to make

929
01:09:54.479 --> 01:10:00.720
contacts with different like IR technicians,
different people that were doing things. Hey,

930
01:10:01.119 --> 01:10:05.560
the story keeps evolving and we keep
learning more and more about infrared that

931
01:10:06.119 --> 01:10:12.000
all of us, as the team
of basically five me and five others,

932
01:10:13.880 --> 01:10:17.720
we learned about infrared more so than
anything else. And we learned about what

933
01:10:17.760 --> 01:10:23.239
the object was. We did a
lot of obviously a lot of math and

934
01:10:23.239 --> 01:10:28.439
a lot of calculations on the different
things in terms of speed and it's maneuvering

935
01:10:28.479 --> 01:10:32.319
into the water and all this other
stuff, and what the temperature might be,

936
01:10:32.359 --> 01:10:35.920
and we did some a lot of
investigation on that. The bottom line

937
01:10:36.000 --> 01:10:41.640
was that we put together what we
could based upon the information that we had,

938
01:10:41.880 --> 01:10:46.760
and then we said, hey,
what could this conceivably be? And

939
01:10:46.800 --> 01:10:49.960
then when you. You know,
typically in upology and this is the way

940
01:10:50.000 --> 01:10:55.720
we do things. It's like in
Heine called it the the escalation of hypotheses.

941
01:10:55.760 --> 01:10:58.640
You start off with the known and
you work to the unknown. Right,

942
01:10:59.159 --> 01:11:02.199
and so we, uh we did
what he did, which was basically,

943
01:11:02.319 --> 01:11:04.159
well, it's not a bird,
it's not a plane, it's not

944
01:11:04.159 --> 01:11:06.920
a kite, it's not this,
it's not that you know, do we

945
01:11:08.000 --> 01:11:10.720
know anything that can look like that
move like that? No? No,

946
01:11:10.720 --> 01:11:14.560
no, no no. And then
you come down with where you and hey,

947
01:11:14.560 --> 01:11:18.119
look, you know, unless this
is something that is a classified project,

948
01:11:18.359 --> 01:11:25.800
then you took the risk of flying
a classified project over the and stopped

949
01:11:26.279 --> 01:11:30.560
an aircraft from taking off. And
you're you're you're you're flying over an airbord

950
01:11:30.600 --> 01:11:35.279
for guy's sake. Uh, you
know, then why would you do that?

951
01:11:35.359 --> 01:11:39.680
You know? And and but that's
the only thing you're left with other

952
01:11:39.760 --> 01:11:45.760
than it being something completely unknown that
we just don't know about. And and

953
01:11:45.880 --> 01:11:48.439
I mean you do not. There's
a couple there's still a few out there

954
01:11:48.520 --> 01:11:55.359
who are believe it could be a
bird or a balloon. Surem but you

955
01:11:55.359 --> 01:11:58.880
know, I mean that that's where
you know, we asked them to put

956
01:11:58.880 --> 01:12:02.600
their paper together like we did,
do their homework, show us and make

957
01:12:02.640 --> 01:12:08.239
sure that they can make that claim
stick. Now, I mean, you

958
01:12:08.279 --> 01:12:12.560
know, great, when we see
that, then you know we're ready to

959
01:12:12.560 --> 01:12:17.800
assume that something else. Now,
let me also clarify that that I'm excited

960
01:12:17.840 --> 01:12:23.279
because I've now made contact here with
the University of Alabama, Huntsville, the

961
01:12:23.520 --> 01:12:28.039
Applied Optics Department, and I've actually
got one of the professors who in research

962
01:12:29.000 --> 01:12:31.960
who is now joined hands to look
at this thing with us, and he

963
01:12:32.039 --> 01:12:38.279
may be able to help us to
learn more about the infrared than we thought

964
01:12:38.279 --> 01:12:41.880
that we could possibly even know.
Well, that's cool, and what's great

965
01:12:41.920 --> 01:12:47.760
about this is the people who have
come come about with alternate theories. They

966
01:12:47.800 --> 01:12:51.319
haven't done the work, like you
said, to put together a paper.

967
01:12:51.399 --> 01:12:57.199
However, you know, being part
of some of the conversations with the group,

968
01:12:57.640 --> 01:13:04.319
you and your group you are still
take their their input seriously and have

969
01:13:04.479 --> 01:13:10.520
looked at it carefully to to see
what their points are. And at least

970
01:13:10.600 --> 01:13:13.720
so far I believe, and you
can correct me if I'm wrong. You

971
01:13:13.840 --> 01:13:18.920
still haven't found an answer however,
as to what this was correct. It

972
01:13:19.199 --> 01:13:26.079
just you know, you advanced the
balloon idea, right, so you know,

973
01:13:26.279 --> 01:13:29.039
say great, So they're using a
line of sight to show that the

974
01:13:29.239 --> 01:13:32.399
maybe the movement of the object was
not at the same speed that we thought

975
01:13:32.439 --> 01:13:36.319
that it was, or maybe in
the different direction, or it didn't didn't

976
01:13:36.319 --> 01:13:41.720
do this, or didn't do that. Okay, did you go and check

977
01:13:42.079 --> 01:13:49.560
that that and indeed a balloon what
it looks like in infrared? Okay,

978
01:13:49.640 --> 01:13:54.560
we did that. I've actually got
video clip using the same camera of a

979
01:13:54.600 --> 01:13:59.680
balloon. Okay, it doesn't the
emissivity that's reflected from the ground in the

980
01:13:59.680 --> 01:14:05.039
sky, I don't look anything like
this object whatsoever. Then they're not accounting

981
01:14:05.079 --> 01:14:12.000
for the fact that it also had
it was first seen at night. It

982
01:14:12.079 --> 01:14:15.600
was first seen by the tower as
well as the aircraft as being a white

983
01:14:15.960 --> 01:14:19.800
and a pinky or kind of a
white or pinkish light if you would,

984
01:14:20.560 --> 01:14:29.079
that came in and basically went dark. It went dark, And they're saying,

985
01:14:29.199 --> 01:14:31.119
okay, well, and they're not
even accounting for that. Okay,

986
01:14:31.399 --> 01:14:34.640
they don't even mention that that's the
case. Okay, well, then you

987
01:14:34.680 --> 01:14:38.760
know, and then it went dark, So what what turned out the light

988
01:14:38.800 --> 01:14:42.600
on the balloon? You know,
the other thing would be like you know,

989
01:14:42.840 --> 01:14:45.199
if it was a balloon or something
of that nature, how do you

990
01:14:45.239 --> 01:14:49.399
explain the fact that it goes and
it disappears at times what appears to be

991
01:14:49.399 --> 01:14:54.439
behind a pole, a telephone pole, or it appears to move along the

992
01:14:54.479 --> 01:14:58.359
ground and in between trees, or
that it seems to go in the water,

993
01:14:58.560 --> 01:15:00.319
and it appears to look like it
goes in the water and then comes

994
01:15:00.319 --> 01:15:06.039
back up and then splits into two. Okay, so tell me how your

995
01:15:06.079 --> 01:15:11.760
balloon splits in the two how it
does this kind of moving And their papers

996
01:15:11.840 --> 01:15:16.840
don't get that far along, so
they haven't done their homework. They need

997
01:15:16.880 --> 01:15:23.680
to spend you know, more time
doing that. Do the calculations make the

998
01:15:23.760 --> 01:15:27.560
case. And that's when we didn't
really even want to get into the UFO

999
01:15:27.600 --> 01:15:31.159
community. But it's the UFO if
you would, the skeptics or or whatever

1000
01:15:31.159 --> 01:15:35.399
you want to call them, I
mean critics if you would, or debunkers,

1001
01:15:35.520 --> 01:15:40.880
whatever the term you want to use
for that those group. And it's

1002
01:15:40.960 --> 01:15:44.039
just because they want to be able
to prove and they've already come up with

1003
01:15:44.279 --> 01:15:45.920
it's a balloon, or it's this, or it's that, it's not this,

1004
01:15:46.439 --> 01:15:49.399
So they're biased from the beginning and
they go off and they try to

1005
01:15:49.439 --> 01:15:54.239
prove that it's can't be a UFO
or can't be unidentified. We have to

1006
01:15:54.279 --> 01:15:57.520
find something else for it. And
then they can't come up with an answer

1007
01:15:57.560 --> 01:15:59.920
and even tell us what it is. And so that Yet, but they

1008
01:16:00.079 --> 01:16:02.640
want to point their finger at us, They want to stick fingers in our

1009
01:16:02.680 --> 01:16:06.279
face, they want to call us
names as a group. And yet all

1010
01:16:06.319 --> 01:16:10.760
we are a bunch of skeptical kind
of like you know, I mean,

1011
01:16:10.880 --> 01:16:14.199
people don't think that I'm not skeptic. Excuse me, wait a minute,

1012
01:16:14.199 --> 01:16:17.880
I'm very skeptical of most UFO cases. So I too am a skeptic,

1013
01:16:18.840 --> 01:16:23.960
and you know, and I and
I but I also have a feeling that

1014
01:16:24.039 --> 01:16:27.439
there's legitimacy to the case that needs
to be explored and it needs to be

1015
01:16:27.560 --> 01:16:33.199
investigated. And so but yet you
know, we're you know, we're criticized

1016
01:16:33.239 --> 01:16:36.439
by that group, and it's just
to become actually a carnival with them.

1017
01:16:36.520 --> 01:16:41.880
And I'm sad to say, but
and with the true experts, the ones

1018
01:16:41.920 --> 01:16:46.359
with the most expertise that are legitimate
esque experts, people who work with these

1019
01:16:46.399 --> 01:16:54.720
systems are agreeing that they do not
believe this object to be be a balloon

1020
01:16:54.840 --> 01:16:59.039
or a bird, correct, And
for me that's what's most important because these

1021
01:16:59.079 --> 01:17:02.920
are the experts. Everybody can have
an opinion, but when it comes down

1022
01:17:02.960 --> 01:17:08.399
to like even me writing it as
a journalist, the expert opinion is what's

1023
01:17:08.479 --> 01:17:12.880
most important. And it's unique that
we even have this expert opinion because often

1024
01:17:13.199 --> 01:17:17.319
in these UFO cases you can't get
experts to put in their two cents because

1025
01:17:17.319 --> 01:17:23.520
they're afraid of ridicule. And even
in this case, they only identified themselves

1026
01:17:23.560 --> 01:17:28.760
to myself and you all, but
otherwise don't want us to release their their

1027
01:17:28.800 --> 01:17:31.720
personal information. Yeah, which you
know, I'll be perfectized with you.

1028
01:17:31.760 --> 01:17:36.439
The vast majority of UFA UFO witnesses
don't want their names mentioned. Okay,

1029
01:17:36.720 --> 01:17:40.039
that's just the way it is.
And oh, by the way, I

1030
01:17:40.039 --> 01:17:42.520
mean, do you think that I'm
gonna, like, you know, go

1031
01:17:42.560 --> 01:17:45.960
through the humiliation that I'm gonna get
if I tell my put my name out

1032
01:17:45.960 --> 01:17:47.800
there? No, I mean the
media is out there like a carnival and

1033
01:17:47.880 --> 01:17:51.560
a joke that turns it into a
circus. So I'm sorry, I'm gonna

1034
01:17:51.640 --> 01:17:56.359
keep my name quiet. But that
doesn't mean that their testimony is not valid

1035
01:17:56.439 --> 01:17:59.600
or nor that we don't think that
it's not. I talk to the IR

1036
01:17:59.680 --> 01:18:03.560
people that do the maintenance work on
those cameras, you know, they're the

1037
01:18:03.560 --> 01:18:08.119
ones that out there knowing all about
the camera. I mean, and they're

1038
01:18:08.199 --> 01:18:12.520
literally their whole office is sitting there
looking at this entire video clip and saying,

1039
01:18:13.239 --> 01:18:15.479
what the heck do you make out
of that? That's nothing like anything

1040
01:18:15.479 --> 01:18:19.199
I've ever seen, you know.
I mean, that counts for something,

1041
01:18:20.439 --> 01:18:25.000
you know, And so I mean, legitimately, there might be something.

1042
01:18:25.039 --> 01:18:30.119
And again I go back to the
fact that I'm hoping that this IR professor,

1043
01:18:30.319 --> 01:18:36.279
he's the assistant research director. My
god, he's put together so many

1044
01:18:36.279 --> 01:18:40.680
books on in for red that it's
amazing, and it's just a very knowledgeable

1045
01:18:40.720 --> 01:18:43.359
guy. And I sat with him
for like, you know, over an

1046
01:18:43.399 --> 01:18:45.079
hour, and he was telling me
things that we're like, you know,

1047
01:18:45.079 --> 01:18:46.720
okay, well, this could be, this could be this would be,

1048
01:18:46.760 --> 01:18:51.600
this could be this, but great, can you help us out because to

1049
01:18:51.640 --> 01:18:57.720
me, my opinion is if this
has a prosaic explanation to it, I

1050
01:18:57.800 --> 01:19:00.720
want to know it and I will
be the first publish it, Okay,

1051
01:19:00.920 --> 01:19:03.840
I mean, I'll make sure that
that gets out there. And I've got

1052
01:19:03.920 --> 01:19:09.840
nothing to hide, you know,
but until then, it's an extremely compelling

1053
01:19:10.119 --> 01:19:14.479
video, Okay, And I'm I
think I you know, we owe it

1054
01:19:14.520 --> 01:19:18.119
to the witnesses who came forward,
took the risk to do that, to

1055
01:19:18.399 --> 01:19:23.359
treat it seriously. That's what they
wanted, that's what they got. We

1056
01:19:23.399 --> 01:19:27.119
treated it seriously. And you know, I'm proud of the work that we

1057
01:19:27.159 --> 01:19:31.279
did. Most UFO cases most excellent. When you it's first off, it's

1058
01:19:31.319 --> 01:19:39.039
extremely rare for us to even begin
have a military grade piece of equipment,

1059
01:19:40.199 --> 01:19:45.439
uh pass, and we get that
that video. Okay, show me a

1060
01:19:45.479 --> 01:19:49.439
case where we've had anything taken infra
red. Show me anything where we've had

1061
01:19:49.479 --> 01:19:54.720
anything that was provided to us by
the military that where we can actually go

1062
01:19:54.800 --> 01:19:59.960
look at it and see an object
of some sort. So on. From

1063
01:20:00.119 --> 01:20:03.159
me to me, it's like,
that's a rare event in and of itself,

1064
01:20:03.640 --> 01:20:09.479
and it deserves a credible attention to
it. And that's what I was

1065
01:20:09.520 --> 01:20:15.119
proud of our group at least attempting
to do that. So we're pretty much

1066
01:20:15.199 --> 01:20:17.279
out of time. I mean,
that flew by. You are the state

1067
01:20:17.359 --> 01:20:21.720
director for Alabama and Mississippi. Movefon. By the way, we haven't mentioned

1068
01:20:21.800 --> 01:20:28.079
that and I believe you have more
titles with Movefon right. Yeah, now,

1069
01:20:28.199 --> 01:20:33.560
the you find director of Strategic Projects, And what that basically means is

1070
01:20:34.239 --> 01:20:41.680
I'm looking to help out and getting
technology implemented out there to be able to

1071
01:20:41.720 --> 01:20:44.880
help us to tackle this thing.
And that's one of the projects Out've got.

1072
01:20:45.279 --> 01:20:48.640
I'm also helping to document the life
cycle of the UFO case so that

1073
01:20:48.680 --> 01:20:54.319
we can deploy that into the r
CMS design. So I'm doing a lot

1074
01:20:54.359 --> 01:20:57.880
of that type of stuff, applying
my IT skills and stuff like that in

1075
01:20:57.880 --> 01:21:02.399
that capacity. Did you see that
cool UFO I d UFO detector software?

1076
01:21:02.920 --> 01:21:06.039
Yes, I did, In fact
that I think that's really neat. In

1077
01:21:06.039 --> 01:21:10.119
fact, I've told my team that
I've got to go out and let's get

1078
01:21:10.119 --> 01:21:13.399
it and let's let's try it out
and see what it's like and and and

1079
01:21:13.520 --> 01:21:16.640
check it out. Yeah, that's
cool stuff. So, and people can

1080
01:21:16.680 --> 01:21:21.399
go to mof on al dot org
to find out more about Alabama move On.

1081
01:21:21.880 --> 01:21:26.960
You're going to be speaking at the
move On Symposium in August, which

1082
01:21:27.039 --> 01:21:32.439
is very cool. Uh, that'll
be an Orlando, Florida. And what

1083
01:21:32.479 --> 01:21:38.039
are you going to be talking about? Well, the title of my program

1084
01:21:38.159 --> 01:21:42.319
is going to be target uh the
h it's about the Aguada Puerto Rico case

1085
01:21:42.359 --> 01:21:45.520
and it's called Target Unknown, and
so we'll talk about that U I P.

1086
01:21:45.720 --> 01:21:49.399
Case and that goes along with the
theme of the entire thing, which

1087
01:21:49.439 --> 01:21:56.199
is basically UFOs and uh from the
oceans to the skies to out in space

1088
01:21:56.279 --> 01:21:59.239
and stuff, and so it'll be
one of those things I'll be talking on

1089
01:21:59.359 --> 01:22:03.520
Saturday. I'm kind of like in
the Prime Times spot after people come back

1090
01:22:03.520 --> 01:22:09.279
from dinner, So I'm excited about
it. I'll also be doing the moderating

1091
01:22:09.319 --> 01:22:12.159
one of the panels on the second
day, and I'm looking forward to doing

1092
01:22:12.199 --> 01:22:15.640
that as well. Cool. Well, that's exciting. Well, anything else

1093
01:22:15.680 --> 01:22:20.960
you wanted to add before we leave, No other than the fact that you're

1094
01:22:20.960 --> 01:22:25.079
a great guy. I'm looking forward
to being back on with you, Alejandro.

1095
01:22:25.159 --> 01:22:30.880
I always appreciate your rationality to the
subject, and thank you for having

1096
01:22:30.920 --> 01:22:34.560
me on, and I hope it
won't be another fifty two years before I'm

1097
01:22:34.600 --> 01:22:39.640
back on with you. Yeah.
Well, you know what, thank you

1098
01:22:39.680 --> 01:22:44.079
so much for coming on, and
we'll definitely have you on again because I

1099
01:22:44.119 --> 01:22:45.680
had a lot more questions I wanted
to talk to you about, but this

1100
01:22:45.840 --> 01:22:48.720
is great to get to know you
better, and so the listeners get to

1101
01:22:48.720 --> 01:22:53.760
know you. I even found out
new stuff about you because I didn't know

1102
01:22:54.159 --> 01:22:57.640
you were just a teenager when you
started all of this. That's really cool.

1103
01:22:58.279 --> 01:23:00.760
Yeah, I was one of those
kids that was in influence a lot

1104
01:23:00.800 --> 01:23:02.840
of people. There's a magic thing
about age thirteen or something like that.

1105
01:23:02.880 --> 01:23:08.399
I run across it all the time
where people were enhanced by this subject arout

1106
01:23:08.439 --> 01:23:10.880
that age, you know, And
so I was like, Wow, that's

1107
01:23:10.880 --> 01:23:15.399
pretty cool. So I'm yep,
thirteen years old. Well, you know

1108
01:23:15.439 --> 01:23:17.159
what, I'm going to ask this
question hopefully you have time anyway, because

1109
01:23:17.199 --> 01:23:21.239
I didn't ask have you had a
sighting of your own? Well, you

1110
01:23:21.239 --> 01:23:25.520
know, no, I have not
seen anything that I would class as a

1111
01:23:25.760 --> 01:23:30.079
UFO that I've witnessed. And I
you know, I tend to be walking

1112
01:23:30.119 --> 01:23:31.840
around with my head up in the
air. I'm always out, I do

1113
01:23:31.920 --> 01:23:36.800
sky watches, I'm outlooking and and
I haven't and but you know, let

1114
01:23:36.840 --> 01:23:44.680
me let me clarify. When you've
investigated cases where you've seen circular areas that

1115
01:23:44.720 --> 01:23:48.079
are baked two feet in the ground
seventy foot in diameter like I did,

1116
01:23:48.119 --> 01:23:50.439
and I'm standing in the middle of
it. I'm going like, whoa,

1117
01:23:50.439 --> 01:23:55.960
this is incredible. You see that, and you see other kinds of things

1118
01:23:56.000 --> 01:24:00.279
when you do case investigations. I
don't have any reason to not believe.

1119
01:24:00.920 --> 01:24:04.079
I've talked to too many credible Air
force people, military people. There's something

1120
01:24:04.119 --> 01:24:08.239
there. And I really don't even
think that I have to see one,

1121
01:24:08.399 --> 01:24:12.239
because to me, it's like,
you know, it's just too much common

1122
01:24:12.279 --> 01:24:16.159
sense that the planet, every part
of the planet's been touched by these things,

1123
01:24:16.159 --> 01:24:18.840
and all people describe them the same
way. So I don't need to

1124
01:24:18.840 --> 01:24:21.800
see one. But if I do, great, I love it. Like

1125
01:24:21.920 --> 01:24:27.720
the closest I came was I saw
that Google loon balloon, and man,

1126
01:24:27.760 --> 01:24:30.359
I thought that that was pretty wild. I thought that maybe that was gonna

1127
01:24:30.359 --> 01:24:32.000
be my first one until I found
out that it was the balloon that was

1128
01:24:32.079 --> 01:24:38.880
launched from Huntsville. So and I
guess finally for reals to this time,

1129
01:24:39.600 --> 01:24:45.920
But you do believe the most likely
answer for the phenomena is that there are

1130
01:24:45.359 --> 01:24:51.239
extraterrestrial civilizations visiting. I'm gonna put
to you this way. I mean,

1131
01:24:51.319 --> 01:24:57.079
there's the multiple hypotheses as to where
they originate. I mean, you know,

1132
01:24:58.560 --> 01:25:00.399
and I think that all of them
still are on the table. In

1133
01:25:00.439 --> 01:25:04.600
other words, if you look at
the Bentwater's case, you could probably argue

1134
01:25:04.640 --> 01:25:09.119
that they would tell you that it's
something from the future, you know,

1135
01:25:09.159 --> 01:25:13.239
And that's pretty much the way that
that one went. If you look at

1136
01:25:13.279 --> 01:25:16.319
the fact, if you read Jacques
Vallet's work, and especially since he's done

1137
01:25:16.319 --> 01:25:20.359
the new re editing of his book
Wanders in the Sky, I mean,

1138
01:25:20.600 --> 01:25:26.840
you're documenting the fact that we've had
a relationship with some pretty unusual objects and

1139
01:25:26.880 --> 01:25:31.720
things like that that go throughout recorded
history. So then there's the philosophy or

1140
01:25:31.760 --> 01:25:36.399
the hypothesis that suggests that they've always
been here, they might have they might

1141
01:25:36.399 --> 01:25:42.000
have been here before us. And
then you you also look at Jacques Belai's

1142
01:25:42.039 --> 01:25:44.960
work and you'd say, well,
well, maybe there's an alternative, alternative

1143
01:25:45.000 --> 01:25:48.119
hypothesis, you know, and maybe
it's like inter dimensional in nature that can

1144
01:25:48.159 --> 01:25:53.239
pop in and pop out, and
so that's just as much on the table.

1145
01:25:53.880 --> 01:25:56.760
Uh. Then you know, it
goes on and on and on to

1146
01:25:56.760 --> 01:25:59.640
where that there's all these different and
it doesn't have to be that they're extra

1147
01:25:59.720 --> 01:26:03.399
trest necessarily coming from here. Let
me put it through this way. They

1148
01:26:03.479 --> 01:26:08.079
might not be from here, but
they've been here for a very very long

1149
01:26:08.119 --> 01:26:13.000
time. Is a very very strong
possibility. Their ability to move through space

1150
01:26:13.039 --> 01:26:15.439
and time, you know, might
be that they're from you know, not

1151
01:26:15.479 --> 01:26:18.680
even in this time element that we
live in and what we work in.

1152
01:26:19.039 --> 01:26:24.119
So we don't know where they originate
from. But I believe that they've there's

1153
01:26:24.159 --> 01:26:30.399
been a relationship between everybody on this
planet with some unknown something that we really

1154
01:26:30.439 --> 01:26:34.600
don't know that has been recorded,
tracked, seen, observed. Maybe we've

1155
01:26:34.600 --> 01:26:39.159
been influenced by it. And I
believe that that's also the case. But

1156
01:26:39.279 --> 01:26:45.520
I don't necessarily jump to the fact
that they're flying here in spacecraft from another

1157
01:26:46.840 --> 01:26:51.680
galactic place or something like that.
On a day to day basis, I

1158
01:26:51.680 --> 01:26:56.479
believe that the oceans come into play. I believe that there might be conceivably

1159
01:26:56.560 --> 01:27:00.399
bases underneath the ocean, because it's
we shouldn't even be called Earth, you

1160
01:27:00.399 --> 01:27:03.079
know, three quarters of the planet
is water. We should be called probably

1161
01:27:03.119 --> 01:27:10.800
the planet water and nukes and nukes, well, yeah, I go along

1162
01:27:10.840 --> 01:27:15.800
with Hastings to me think about about
that. I mean, it's like,

1163
01:27:15.840 --> 01:27:19.079
you know, we've started detonating all
these things in the atolls underwater and stuff

1164
01:27:19.119 --> 01:27:23.520
like that. If you were water
based, you know, wouldn't you be

1165
01:27:23.520 --> 01:27:26.359
a little bit concerned about that and
want to pop out and try to stop

1166
01:27:26.399 --> 01:27:30.680
all that stuff, you know.
So the bottom line is that they've probably

1167
01:27:30.680 --> 01:27:33.079
got shaken up quite a bit from
all the rattling we did with the nukes

1168
01:27:33.119 --> 01:27:38.479
that we've done, and we're affecting
our own planet that they might be sharing

1169
01:27:38.520 --> 01:27:41.760
with us, and so hey,
by the way, let me do something

1170
01:27:41.760 --> 01:27:45.439
about that. So I believe very
strongly that those interactions that Hastings has put

1171
01:27:45.479 --> 01:27:50.720
together in his great work called UFOs
Nukes and his new documentary is legit,

1172
01:27:51.000 --> 01:27:56.000
and it's basically, you know,
it says that you know, they're wanting

1173
01:27:56.039 --> 01:28:00.720
to stop us from either annihilating ourselves
or or something of that. M h.

1174
01:28:00.560 --> 01:28:05.880
And finally, do they, whoever
they are, have anything to do

1175
01:28:06.159 --> 01:28:14.199
with the bow tie? No,
I'm sorry to say. I go back

1176
01:28:14.239 --> 01:28:16.600
and I look at my photographs that
I've got, even of me as a

1177
01:28:16.680 --> 01:28:19.520
kid, and I've found a few
of them where I'm wearing a bow tie.

1178
01:28:19.920 --> 01:28:24.920
And I had uncles who were bow
ties. And then it seemed like

1179
01:28:24.920 --> 01:28:28.560
when I got working in Army Material
Command, there was this one gentleman by

1180
01:28:28.600 --> 01:28:30.239
the name of Forrest Chilton that I
that I remember working with me, and

1181
01:28:30.279 --> 01:28:33.640
he always wore a bow tie.
I thought that was really cool, so

1182
01:28:34.039 --> 01:28:38.079
he kind of convinced me to go
that way, and in fact, I

1183
01:28:38.119 --> 01:28:40.520
went up and said, can you
teach me how to bow and tie this

1184
01:28:40.560 --> 01:28:44.359
thing? And so there you go
and and there you go, and I

1185
01:28:44.479 --> 01:28:48.239
just now I've got my my wonderful
cups and my drawings made by Dennis Reino

1186
01:28:48.359 --> 01:28:53.840
of me wearing a you know,
a bow tie and I'm my coffee mug

1187
01:28:53.880 --> 01:28:57.319
and stuff like that. So it's
pretty cool. All right, You're pretty

1188
01:28:57.359 --> 01:29:01.439
cool, dude. Hey, thanks, thank you, and again I appreciate

1189
01:29:01.560 --> 01:29:04.560
just being on with you. Yeah, thank you so much for taking the

1190
01:29:04.600 --> 01:29:10.000
time to talk to us. And
we'll talk to you soon, all right.

1191
01:29:10.119 --> 01:29:14.119
Thank you so much to Richard Hoffman
for being on the show. What

1192
01:29:14.319 --> 01:29:16.079
a great guest. Like I said, you know, I interact with him

1193
01:29:16.119 --> 01:29:19.880
so much at shocking that I haven't
had him on the show before. And

1194
01:29:19.960 --> 01:29:24.920
now you know why I should have
had him on the show earlier, and

1195
01:29:24.960 --> 01:29:29.880
why I should have him on frequently, which will I definitely will attempt to

1196
01:29:29.960 --> 01:29:32.680
do because he's got a lot of
great information. He's been in this for

1197
01:29:32.800 --> 01:29:39.199
decades and he's done a lot of
great stuff and has some incredible insights.

1198
01:29:39.359 --> 01:29:44.920
So I always love working with rich
He's very professional, very down to earth

1199
01:29:45.439 --> 01:29:49.239
and what a background, huh,
I mean, an amazing asset to this

1200
01:29:49.359 --> 01:29:54.319
field. So thank you so much. You can check him out at Alabama

1201
01:29:54.720 --> 01:30:00.000
Moofon. They've got a website and
a Facebook also you could check him out

1202
01:30:00.039 --> 01:30:03.760
out on Facebook. And he'll also
be speaking at the Mofon Symposium, like

1203
01:30:03.800 --> 01:30:09.239
you said, actually both of us
will be so and Morgan Beale, who

1204
01:30:09.319 --> 01:30:13.520
is a State director for Florida.
Actually the move On Symposium will be in

1205
01:30:13.880 --> 01:30:18.560
late August in Orlando, and Morgan
being the state director, is taking a

1206
01:30:18.560 --> 01:30:24.800
big role in this year's symposium.
And he's also put together these really cool

1207
01:30:25.000 --> 01:30:30.800
videos that highlight the different speakers.
So he's got a video of yours truly,

1208
01:30:30.840 --> 01:30:34.560
but he's got some of the other
speakers and you can find out about

1209
01:30:34.600 --> 01:30:41.199
the speaker's backgrounds and what they're into
and all about. And they're really cool,

1210
01:30:41.439 --> 01:30:45.079
fun videos. So they're on the
move On YouTube and actually I've been

1211
01:30:45.119 --> 01:30:50.479
posting them on my Facebook and on
our Facebook group, So don't forget.

1212
01:30:50.520 --> 01:30:56.159
The Open minds UFO News Facebook group
is out there. It's a closed group,

1213
01:30:56.560 --> 01:30:59.119
but all you have to do is
ask to join and we will let

1214
01:30:59.199 --> 01:31:02.000
you join. And we just want
to keep out the real negative people and

1215
01:31:02.039 --> 01:31:08.520
the people who are just name calling
and saying just disgusting things, as as

1216
01:31:08.560 --> 01:31:15.000
we see so much out there on
the internet by these anonymous boneheads. So

1217
01:31:15.239 --> 01:31:17.039
yeah, so join the Facebook group
and you can see these videos. They're

1218
01:31:17.119 --> 01:31:21.279
really cool and hopefully you can make
it to the symposium to see us talk

1219
01:31:21.439 --> 01:31:26.560
and to say hello. It's going
to be a lot of fun. So

1220
01:31:27.039 --> 01:31:31.680
really excited about that. I'm also
really excited about our video portal, and

1221
01:31:31.840 --> 01:31:35.520
of course you're hearing about it every
time now on the radio show, but

1222
01:31:35.600 --> 01:31:40.760
you'll see it more in our emails
and on our website. But our video

1223
01:31:40.920 --> 01:31:45.920
portal we've really beefed up. So
we have all of the twenty sixteen International

1224
01:31:46.039 --> 01:31:51.880
UFO Congress lectures up on our on
demand video portals. So essentially you can

1225
01:31:51.960 --> 01:31:57.880
go there and you'll be able to
watch all the lectures right there. They're

1226
01:31:57.920 --> 01:32:01.319
all streaming, and for one low
monthly price, you can watch all of

1227
01:32:01.319 --> 01:32:05.399
these hundreds of videos of your favorite
lectures, I mean, Bob Lazar,

1228
01:32:05.600 --> 01:32:12.039
Jacques Valet, George Nap, all
of the big guys you know out there.

1229
01:32:12.079 --> 01:32:16.399
I mean, we've got tons of
people on there, and so that's

1230
01:32:16.439 --> 01:32:21.800
a lot of fun. But it's
really cheap and if you want, you

1231
01:32:21.840 --> 01:32:27.359
can watch one video at a time. However, it's much more cost effective

1232
01:32:27.399 --> 01:32:31.000
just to do the low month to
month on that one, So go check

1233
01:32:31.000 --> 01:32:34.279
that out when you have a chance. It's well well worth it. You

1234
01:32:34.319 --> 01:32:39.840
could go to our website openminds dot
tv and you'll see the video portal link

1235
01:32:40.600 --> 01:32:44.000
and you'll see it there. We
also have been talking about it in our

1236
01:32:44.159 --> 01:32:47.319
emails, So on the website on
the upper right you'll see a box where

1237
01:32:47.319 --> 01:32:51.119
you can join our email newsletter.
We only send that out bi weekly,

1238
01:32:51.199 --> 01:32:55.479
so we don't really spam you,
but we let you know what's going on

1239
01:32:55.479 --> 01:33:00.399
on the radio show with the UFO
Congress, with our UFO reports and the

1240
01:33:00.479 --> 01:33:04.159
latest news and headlines and stuff,
so you can keep up to date.

1241
01:33:04.600 --> 01:33:09.239
So if you get busy with other
things, you know, we can always

1242
01:33:09.239 --> 01:33:14.840
give you tabs on what's going on
in the UFO world with this handy email

1243
01:33:14.880 --> 01:33:18.319
that we send out on a bi
weekly basis. All of the news that

1244
01:33:18.319 --> 01:33:23.359
we talked about you can find at
Openminds dot tv, so be sure to

1245
01:33:23.720 --> 01:33:29.800
check their regularly. And thank you
all so much for listening. Thank you

1246
01:33:29.840 --> 01:33:32.920
to Caleb Hanks for the opening and
close music. And you know, no

1247
01:33:33.079 --> 01:33:39.000
vacations or nothing in the way.
We should have shows over the next few

1248
01:33:39.039 --> 01:33:43.119
weeks. Actually, I've got interviews
scheduled for the next few weeks already,

1249
01:33:43.239 --> 01:33:48.560
so we'll be going on strong into
the summer, into the Arizona desert heat.

1250
01:33:48.640 --> 01:33:53.359
It's going to be like ninety five
tomorrow, so we are quickly,

1251
01:33:53.560 --> 01:33:57.680
unfortunately, on our way to those
one hundred and ten degree days. But

1252
01:33:59.199 --> 01:34:01.520
right now, if if you were
at the Congress, you remember the weather

1253
01:34:01.720 --> 01:34:06.279
was spectacular. It was so great, and we've had this amazing weather all

1254
01:34:06.279 --> 01:34:11.560
the way up until now, so
I can't complain because it's been really nice,

1255
01:34:12.039 --> 01:34:15.159
and hopefully it will be for a
few days. But pretty soon here

1256
01:34:15.239 --> 01:34:18.720
we'll be in the blazing sun.
But regardless of that blazing sun beating down,

1257
01:34:18.840 --> 01:34:24.680
we will be bringing you the UFO
news at Openminds dot TV. So

1258
01:34:24.760 --> 01:34:28.600
thank you all so much for listening. Thank you to Martin for joining us

1259
01:34:28.720 --> 01:34:32.359
with the news and we will talk
to you all next week. Adio smooth

1260
01:34:32.399 --> 01:35:25.119
tattoos your emotionless