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Go to HHCs dot com slash join
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h A HCWs dot com slash join
hyphen the hyphen collective slash. This is

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London Calling, London Calling. New
American intelligence is suggesting an accidental laboratory league

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in China was most likely the cause
of the coronavirus pandemic. This is according

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to the Wall Street Journal. The
Energy Department revised its earlier position to now

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agree with the FBI, but other
American spy agencies remain divided. Welcome to

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London Calling with me James Delipot and
my very good friend mister Toby Young.

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Do you want to know what the
highlight of my week has been? Yeah,

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well I think I can guess,
but tell me now you can't.

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The highlight of my week was listening
to your dog voice, your dog communication

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voice, which sounds like Mickey Mouse
on Crystal meth. I mean, I

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suppose everyone's gone a dog voice,
haven't they? For some reason? Why

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is it that we just automatically become
much more high pitched when we're calling our

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dogs? Do we assume that that's
the pitch that kind of lands and anything

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lower and they just won't hear it. I don't know, but yeah,

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the dog voice. And then there's
the cat. If I can only dream

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of being addressed like my wife's dresses, the cat. The cat gets talked

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to the such affection, and I
think, oh, one day, maybe

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I'll get to be a cat.
James, I'm so play second fiddle to

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our dog as far as Caroline's concerned. I mean, I just got used

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to being, you know, deprioritized. Since Mally arrived in our household.

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My wife is more or less transferred
all her love and affection to this mutt.

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Yeah, it's what happens. It
is what happens. Yeah. And

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also do you do you find that
in the hierarchy um your children, which

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ones they love? This, this
this kind of mummy is at the top.

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Then then there were the pets and
right at the bottom, you know.

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And if you doubt, if you
die, it would be quite sad,

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but not nearly as sad as if
one of the pets died. That's

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right, Yeah, that was yeah, Yeah, that's depressing usn't it,

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James. But apart from your dog
voice, yes, there was another thing

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that's weak, which is quite good, which was my my event, Yes,

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tell us about that, which,
well, do you know what,

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I didn't want to talk about it
before because I was son vinced it was

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going to get canceled. Um that
I just I was sort of writing it

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off in my head. I was
thinking, oh, you know, there's

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there's no point getting your hopes up
because you realize that you're going to get

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to London and you're you're going to
discover that they've had a threat and the

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police have advised them that for health
and safety reasons, they can't possibly do

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anything other than call the event off. And so you have all these sort

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of desperate people, some of you. Some people came from as far as

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Chicago to see me and are they
would all be milling around sadly wondering what

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to do, and but there'd be
no recourse because the police, you know,

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couldn't be asked. But anyway,
it was at the Emmanuel Center,

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right and that and that is owned
by what the Baptist Church, So there,

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I think, so they're less like
they've got texts from the psalms on

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the ceiling. I can't remember which
which denomination, but was I was kind

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of flattered that when I arrived the
woman who manages the venue, sort of

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greeted me like I was a bit
like I imagine it must feel if if

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you're a regular at the Ritz and
the doorman greets you. Because this is

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like the third right, I had
a big one last year and then I

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was I sort of compared the the
TCW formally conservative woman is that in the

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same venue? Was that in church
and the same venue? Same venue?

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And so they kind of love me
now right. It was good and so

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this this was just to set the
scene for our listeners. This was a

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live recording of the Denning Pod.
Yeah, and it was at the Emmanuel

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Center in Westminster in central London and
it's a nine hundred seater venue and you

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sold out within within like a fortnight
or something. Is that right? Yeah?

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I know it's weird. It's weird. So people, I mean,

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obviously it wasn't just me. It
was people come to see Neil Oliver,

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who had presence because he was he
was a he was a BBC star at

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one point. He was on a
series called Coast, which I never used

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to watch, but lots of people
did, and he was one of their

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go to characters when they wanted somebody
to go to a remote island in Australia

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and look at I don't know,
um sort of micro so that the species

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that that have lived there. Yeah, but he's not a he's not a

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climate scientist, is he. He's
an archaeologist. I think he's an archaeologist.

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Yeah, yeah, no, no, but but they like they like

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people with attractive regional accents. And
you know, he's he's a good looking

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chap with his with his long black
hair and his and his beard and his

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his gleaming eyes and so so he
did well on Coast for a time and

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then he he's now got this this
this place on GB News where he does

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these brilliant monologus railing against the gbg
abs or whatever. He's he's probably the

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last great freedom fighter. I mean, now that Stein has gone from GB

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News, he's probably he's probably that
he's probably the ripist for cancelation. Let's

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put it that way. Well,
if Lawrence Fox is still a regular on

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GB, um, would you not
put him in that bracket? Um?

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Yeah? Yeah, Well obviously I
don't want to call loss or a cut

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or anything like that, but I
just I just think that that that his

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monologues are quite well occasionally, I
have to school. I have to school

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loss, as I did on Twitter
the other day where he was tweeting.

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He was tweeting out the latest that
it now seems to be the case that

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that that COVID really was leaped by
a lab and I'm thinking, oh,

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this is just such a kind of
distraction. No one cares, it doesn't

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matter. We can get we can
get onto that. That's what's it's what

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they want you to think. It's
just like, no, it's it's it's

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it's not in the it's it.
That's a very it's a very normally take

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o. It's funny, you know. It's funny now that that you and

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you know, Fauci have now sort
of met in the middle and you both

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think the lab leak as a conspiracy
theory, but for completely different reasons.

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But anyway, we'll get onto that
in a minute. But tell me more

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about the event. Oh, well, it was good. Um. I

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decided that I wouldn't do any preparation, um, because I think it's it's

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more on brand not to do any
any preparation. And so Wheat and I

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hadn't even met Neil before we'd exchanged
a few messages but I'd just like to

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keep it fresh, because what I'm
aiming for is to have a conversation with

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an intelligent stranger, and I'm trying
to get I'm trying to find out in

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the course of the conversation the most
interesting things that they have to say say

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about stuff. So we talked a
bit about his early his early career,

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and then about his about about where
he is now. And it was it

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was painfully short. It was only
an hour. You don't have much time

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for time for to to really get
anything in depth. But it was Yeah,

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it was John, and then there
was and there was a Q and

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a after that was it. There
was sort of I insisted that there would

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know there be no questions from the
floor because what people do, always,

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always, but always what they do
some sod who likes the sound of his

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his his own voice or her own
voice, grabs the mic and they ramble

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on for about five minutes and you're
thinking, well, where's the question,

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and you as there was no question. They just wanted to make their tasks

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often task some point. So this
time when we did it, we did

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it v iPad. People could text
their questions and I would then scan them,

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so I could right just vet them
and stuff. So that was fine,

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um, and then we went to
the pub. But if but if

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people are paying you know, I
mean, I think the ticket price was

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something like twenty three pounds, unless
they were paying for VIP tickets, in

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which case it was what was it
like sixty five or something. I can't

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remember, I'm sure you know.
But but if they've paid that much,

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and some of them have traveled from
Chicago, why not you know, give

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them because you are that you are
privileging I hate that word, but you

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are privileging the tossa who wants to
hear the sound of his own voice and

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grabs the mic over the hundred innocence
who actually, frankly don't want to hear

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this chap or chaps rambling on.
So it's quite a good way to avoid

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the situation by having people text in
their questions. Then I can ask them

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succinctly, and then we can get
the answers or not. And and to

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how long did the event last in
total? I'm not sure it was.

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It was a bit like when you're
doing these things. It's a bit like

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an acid trip. It's it's just
slightly unreal. I can I can see.

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I can see now why performers have
all these these people to organize things

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for them and to keep to keep, you know, to sort of protect

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them and bring them little cups of
glasses of water and things like that,

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because actually you need to be you
need to you need to be concentrating on

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the on the event, you know, on on on the speaky bit,

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because it's quite you need to be
on your game. Um. I mean,

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even though I said I didn't do
any um research beforehand, you've I'm

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I'm always looking for the for the
the amusing rejoinder and the one liner and

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things which which which necessarily are our
spur of the moment things. Although having

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said that, I did want to
see I did want to do a Q

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and A with an author. Um
I'm not going to mention his name,

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but we sort of met beforehand and
hung out for about an hour and he

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said some amusing thing and he said, oh, oh, I think I'm

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going to incorporate that into my into
my my chat, and he then joined

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the chat pretended that this this had
occurred to him spontaneously, which I thought

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was cheating. I just thought,
well, well, it wasn't spontaneous so

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why are you pretending it was You're
not You're not a sort of you know,

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you're not Oscar while do it just
an actor? And people who'd paid

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for VIP tickets they got what did
they get extra for that? All sorts

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of exciting things which I can't remember
because I didn't organize it. Um um

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I could because I find that kind
of thing quite boring. There was there

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was a sort of special session um
afterwards. Um. But and did it

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include a photo? Yes? It
did of that like of them? And

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did they take was it a selfie? We had we had a professional photographer

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that That was the point where I
that some people, some people had come

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to hear Neil to see Neil,
and they asked him questions and he answered

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them, and I just couldn't be
asked at that point to give any answers

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to questions. So I wandered around
the room having chats with people and giving

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them hugs and things. But there
was a slight issue because some people who'd

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come to hear Neil complained that I
was making too much noise and they said,

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can't you hear he's trying to speak? And I was thinking, yeah,

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yeah, but what about the people
who want hugs from me, So

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that this was in the kind of
ante chamber, not in the main it

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was main hall. Okay. So
did people who bought VIP tickets then hang

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around? How did you kind of
like that was suit? How did you

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shoo away that? I think that, Um, some people didn't realize what

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pub we were all going to,
which is a shame because some of them

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were were a bit lost at the
end. But quite a lot of people

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repaired to that pub, the Marquess
of Granby, and that was good.

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Oh yeah, that was nice.
Isn't there a bar at the Emmanual Center?

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Yeah, there is there a bar, but they have but you get

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cleared out of the venue at a
certain time. Okay, Okay. Now

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the reason I'm asking so many questions
change is because, um, you know,

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I do this other podcast called The
Whisky Skeptic with Nick Dixon, and

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you want to do one we are, Well, we want to do and

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we've we've I think we've provisionally booked
the Emmanual Center for the first of April,

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right, and significant tickets. I
know. Yeah. I think people

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may think it's all of all of
hoax and not turn up, but it's

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not a hoax. It is happening, even though there's I've just discovered a

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train strike on that day. But
our tickets are a little bit cheaper than

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yours. There's seventeen pounds fifty and
I don't think we're setting aside any VIP

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tickets. We're just selling tickets for
seventeen pounds fifty and we will do a

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Q and A afterwards, and if
people want to make a point rather than

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ask a question, I think we're
going to let them do that. We're

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being a bit more relaxed than you
because it's the first time we've done it.

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We want to try and attract as
many people as we can, and

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also we don't have you know,
Neil Oliver to add to the attraction.

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And I'm just I'm terribly nervous,
James that I think we provisionally booked the

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two hundred and fifty seater because there's
a smaller of any that as well as

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the nine hundred seater the big auditorium, so we can switch if we sell

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enough tickets, but if we don't, we'll just keep to the smaller auditorium.

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But I'm terrified James that you know, you know, when we next

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to London. Calling after the first
of April, You're going to ask me

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how many tickets I sold, And
it's going to be a fraction of the

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number you sold, and it's going
to be it's going to be clear,

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you know where the team Toby,
Team James divide falls. But I just

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don't consider it a competition tabs.
I mean, it's like, yeah,

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you never heard Mozart, are salts
Alieria as the latest composition? Going?

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Mate, Nate, I am Beethoven
to your most side anyway, we'll see.

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But yeah, well exciting times and
yeah, it's it's it's incredible.

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How many people are you know,
want to want to see podcasts recorded live?

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I mean, who would have guessed
that this would be a kind of

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a live event, a popular live
event that would kind of fill auditoriums the

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length and breadth of the country.
You know, the guys who do the

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kind of world's most popular podcasts.
What's it called The Rest is History?

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Or I think it is The Rest
is History? Tom Holland and Dominic Sambrook

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to BBC produced I'm sure you know, a BBC produced weekly history podcast amazingly

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popular and when I listened to the
show a few weeks ago. The first

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time, I was like, there
are no ads on this show. You

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know, how on earth are they
making any money? And then I looked

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on the website that they direct you
to at the end of the show,

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and it's they're just out there on
tour doing live recordings of this podcast.

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You know, almost every week of
the year. There must be coin but

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they are. Yeah. I mean, it's probably killed his literary career,

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isn't it. Why would you?
Why would you write books? Well,

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I think Dominic Sandbruck has has got
a new book out about the kind of

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Thatcher's pomp um and he's you that
he's he's conservative. I think Tom Holland's

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more of a centrist Um. But
it's it's it's a it's a non woke

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history podcast. I quite like the
one I listened to, which was all

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about the British love affair with beef. Um. Maybe maybe they're not not

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so good on other less sound subjects, but that one was very good.

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I thought, anyway, should we
want to should we hear from our second

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sponsor, James? I think it's
you to go first, good old though

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yes Um. In nineteen forty eight, Winston Churchill said, paraphrasing Santayana,

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those who fail to learn from history
are doomed to repeat it. In twenty

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00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:07,640
twelve, Christine Paris said Thor demonstrates
high professional standards to help his clients achieve

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their greatest potential. He went above
and beyond to ensure his schedule aligned with

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mine regardless of time zone differences.
Thor is consistent, dependable, and accurate

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00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:22,839
in carrying out his responsibilities to a
successful conclusion. The bottom line, Thor

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is a pre eminent authority in his
field. If you have an opportunity to

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connect with him and learn from him, you would be wise to capitalize on

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that opportunity. Christine was VP of
Regulatory Compliance at Assurant Miami when she wrote

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that. In eighteen ninety eight,
Churchill, after cavalry charging with the twenty

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first Lancers, remarked, nothing in
life is so exhilarating as to be shot

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00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:53,960
at without result. If you'd like
to hear why a Miami cabby threatened to

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00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:59,680
shoot Thor with a taser en route
to meet Christine, connect with him at

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00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:06,839
link tin dot com forward slash in
forward slash Thorholt and mention tasers even if

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00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:11,000
you don't want to hear a taser
tale at today. Because success is final

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00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:15,359
is not final. Failure is not
final. It is the courage to continue

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that counts. Winston again LinkedIn dot
com forward slash in forward slash Thorholt and

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00:19:22,839 --> 00:19:27,839
Thorholt dot substack dot com. That
copy, by the way, was written

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by by Thorholt guest No No really
love so um staying with podcast James.

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I don't know if you saw this
story. I came across it in the

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brown on the Brownstone Institute blog,
which is a great blog, and it

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highlighted a new report from the Brookings
Institute which has flagged up the danger of

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podcasts and apparently, according to this
report, podcasts are now one of the

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most prolific sources of misinformation. And
it's published this report called Audible Reckoning how

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top political podcast has spread unsubstantiated and
false claims. And it begins due in

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large part to the say whatever you
want perceptions of the medium podcasting off as

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a critical avenue through which unsubstantiated and
false claims proliferate. So it used aiyes

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to analyze a kind of supposedly representative
sample of political podcasts and then identified certain

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keywords and phrases such as vaccine and
lockdown and net zero, and then commissioned

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PolitiFact and Snopes to determine the truth
or falsity of the statements the AI had

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pulled out as being slightly suspect,
and it discovered It concluded that conservative podcast

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was were eleven times more likely than
liberal podcasters to share claims fact checked as

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false or unsubstantiated. And one of
the podcasts Brookings pulled out as an example

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of one of these conservative podcasts spreading
misinformation was the dark Horse science podcast Hotels,

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hosted by Brett Weinstein and Heather Haying, and it claimed that thirteen point

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eight percent of their shows contained false
information. Though why they call those two

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liberals conservative is a bit of a
head scratcher, But it made me think,

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James, that we get away with
quite a lot on London calling well,

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I think you know, well you
calling the vaccine the clock shot,

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for instance, or the depth both
numerous things true. I'm waiting for you

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to tell me something I've said that
isn't true. Oh no, I'm not

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suggesting that that I'm not suggesting in
this case. So the point isn't that

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you're able to say false or misleading
things on this podcast. Rather, you

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and I both say things that fact
checking organizations like Snopes would wrongly claim our

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false or misleading, but it would
be enough to get us removed, posts

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removed from Facebook or Twitter. Probably
not Twitter anymore, but in the past

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LinkedIn on the grounds that we were
trafficking misinformation or disinformation. But to a

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great extent, podcasts have been free
of the kind of scourge of fact checkers.

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It is a relatively unsensored medium.
But this made me think, probably

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not for much longer. I imagine, you know, the vast, the

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metastasizing anti disinformation industry, which is
growing like topsy, is constantly looking for

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new fields to plow, and it
won't be long before it turns the eye

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of sauron onto podcasters and we'll be
kicked off platforms like pod Bean and Spotify

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and you know the rest of it. Um. So it did make it

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did make me slightly nervous that you
know, the wild West is about to

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become you know, Stamford Campus or
something. Well, yeah, I mean

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obviously that that's the plan, that's
that's what um. But I mean I

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don't know. I don't know why
you're you're you're so cheerful about it.

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I mean, it's one of those
things that we can we've just got to

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learn to live with it, because
hey, it's a funny old world,

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and well, hey, James,
hang on a second. I'm usually the

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one proposing various pragmat it ways to
fight back and not regarding the gradual rolling

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back of our liberties is inevitable.
You're the one to say that. I

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think it's the other way. I
think that's a misrepresentation of of of my

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position. I'm always The thing that
really shocks and worries me about you is

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that you seem to just accept that
that them's the rules, and therefore we've

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got to obey them, whereas I'm
the one who's saying this is absolutely outrageous.

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We might as well be in the
Soviet Union for all the difference it

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makes. Why you're not more outraged, And that's that's what I That's the

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thing I don't get about you terms. I mean, I find it genuinely

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mystifying. It's like it's like,
well, I think I don't know,

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I don't understand why you accept what
it does that it is clearly um it

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is against all the principles of freedoms. Off comes a good off comes,

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off comes a good example. James, this is what I've done to challenge

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off cooms what I regard as censorious
coronavirus guidance issued at the on the same

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day that the UK announced the first
lockdown March twenty, twenty twenty. I

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took enormous time and trouble to challenge
off COM's coronavirus guidance in the High Court,

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and there was an oral hearing.
There was a hearing on paper.

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The cost to the Free Speech Union
was around about ten thousand pounds. I

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went to great lengths to compile witness
statements from expert witnesses. What have you

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done to challenge Well? What was
the result activities of that? Did the

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court find in your favor? Well? No, the court did not find

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enough. It refused to let the
judicial review progress any further than an oral

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hearing. But it may well be
that because we challenged the coronavirus guide,

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OFFCOM didn't go further in producing subsequent
iterations of that guidance, and it wasn't

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as zealous as it might have been
when it came to enforcement. Yes,

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they knew that there was a watchdog
on their case, watching them like hawks

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to make sure they didn't breach any
of our legally protected speech. One.

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So there's the difference. If they
hadn't been aware of that, they might

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have gone a lot. You see, I don't see how you can accuse

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me of I of not doing anything
about it or obligely accepting it. I

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tried to do something about that.
But you see that there's there's the fundament

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mental difference between you and me.
You still believe that the system is honest

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and functional. I believe it is
broken beyond repair. That's the difference.

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Well, that's a council of despair
though, wasn't it. That's why there's

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no council and acknowledgement of the reality. And I think it's I think it's

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deluded to imagine, given that the
welter of evidence which which proves that I'm

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ride, it's it's simply deluded to
go on acting as though this corrupt system

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if you only just have it,
you know, if you're only polite and

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give off common fair hearing that somehow
they will not behave like like totalitarian enforces,

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which they won't because it's in their
nature. Well, you're wrong,

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I think when you say the system
is broken, if you mean that legal,

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I very much mean the legal system
restrictions of our liberties and anything else.

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Yes. Well, but some legal
challenges during the lockdown, admittedly not

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many or during the period of the
pandemic, were successful. So, for

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instance, churches were reopened in Scotland. When was it the several vicars and

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00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:49,559
churches challenged the Scottish government's instruction to
close churches. That was challenged in the

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00:27:49,599 --> 00:27:55,559
Scottish courts, and the Scottish courts
overturned that instruction and churches are reopened as

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00:27:55,559 --> 00:27:59,200
a consequence, So that such challenges
are not always doomed to fail, and

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00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:03,680
they don't necessary really suggest that anyone
going that route is a kind of naive

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00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,240
innocent who hasn't hasn't realize what's really
going on. Sometimes they can say,

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we'll say, so, you give
the example of the of the church,

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so so let me use that one. The problem is that whatever the Scottish

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courts may have decided about this particular
issue, the bigger problem is that the

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established churches are both a Catholic church
and the and the Anarican church and whatever

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00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:36,000
else. They all have been so
captured already by the forces that I deplore

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that they were more than happier to
to close their churches and to enforce mask

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wearing and all the all the other
nonsense. So it's it's not that i'm

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I'm I'm saying. It's not just
that the legal system is broken. It's

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also that every institution has been infiltrated
by the forces that are determined to destroy

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us. So I I think until
you you can accept this, you're you're

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living in in dreamland. Well my, my, my argument, I think

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is that the problem with assuming that
every institution has been captured um that there

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00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:22,799
isn't any genuine accountability in the system. And there is, you can't use

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00:29:22,079 --> 00:29:29,000
the ballot box, the courts,
the fourth estate now to hold you don't

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believe in the fourth of state.
I think, well, I think I

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think I'm not I'm not going to
write off. I'm not going to write

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off every single mainstream media will name
one that name one that that is reporting

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was going on vaccine injuries, don't
know I was, I was going to

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give Well, I think gb News
is reporting honest. Is that the only

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one the vaccine injuries. I think
there's been well. I was quite pleased

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to see. I'm not going to
single out the New York Time Times as

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00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:04,359
a bastion of impartial reporting, but
did you see that the New York Times

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00:30:04,519 --> 00:30:11,000
is op ed columnist Brett Stevens actually
wrote a column last week, I think,

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saying that masking we now know was
completely ineffective, and there was even

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an editorial in The New York Times
to that effect. And the New York

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00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:25,759
Times actually pushed back against some of
the kind of wider excesses of the trans

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00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:30,039
rights activists as well. So you
know, when you when you're about to

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00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:37,000
write off a mainstream media institution and
think it's never gonna it's never gonna kind

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of given airing to the other side
in any of these debates, whether it's

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wokery pokery, climate way, suddenly
they pleasantly surprise you. But James,

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00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:51,559
the example I was going to give
was, you know this this organization,

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it's actually a British company called the
Global Disinformation Index, and I think we

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00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:57,880
talked about it last week. But
one of the things, one of the

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00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:04,279
more shocking things it was to produce
a list of the ten most risky news

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00:31:04,359 --> 00:31:08,400
publishing websites and the ten least risky
news publishing websites, And by risky it

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00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:15,319
meant most likely to publish disinformation very
broadly defined, and on the ten most

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00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:19,880
risky were all right of center publications
like The Federalist, the New York Post,

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00:31:22,559 --> 00:31:25,960
Real Clear Politics, even Reason,
which isn't even right wing, was

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00:31:26,039 --> 00:31:30,519
on there anyway, And The Washington
Examiner and the Washington Examiner ran this three

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00:31:30,559 --> 00:31:37,119
part series in part to expose the
political bias of this anti disinformation organization,

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00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:41,200
which was not only funded by the
Foreign Commonwealth and Development Office by the UK

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00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:47,079
government, but also by the State
Department in the US via the National Endowment

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00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:52,480
for Democracy. And there was a
bit of pushback, and I think probably

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00:31:52,519 --> 00:31:55,200
the Washington Examina, I don't know
the full story, reached out to this

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00:31:55,640 --> 00:32:01,000
Republican congresswoman who's on the board of
the National Endowment for Democracy and they have

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00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:06,599
defunded the GDI. So I think
that's an example of how the system can

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00:32:06,759 --> 00:32:10,519
still work to curb some of the
excesses of you know, the sensors in

391
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,599
this case. So I don't think. I think, I think, more

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00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:19,920
broadly, your belief that the system
is broken, and the usual mechanisms for

393
00:32:20,039 --> 00:32:25,200
holding bodies like the State Department to
account are broken and ineffective and won't work.

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00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,880
That to me sounds like a council
of despair. No doubt there are

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00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,440
other equally effective methods, but I
don't think we should write off the more

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00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:37,160
conventional traditional methods as well. And
I think you know, if you do,

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00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:42,599
that can be a kind of a
reason for inaction, just throwing up

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00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,400
your hands and saying there's nothing we
can do. Everything's been captured. We

399
00:32:45,559 --> 00:32:51,759
live in a broken system. Until
you know there's a revolution, nothing nothing

400
00:32:51,799 --> 00:32:54,440
can change. I think that that
is overly pessimistic, but I think it's

401
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:58,519
one of the reasons I'm more more
of an activist than you are when it

402
00:32:58,599 --> 00:33:00,839
comes to trying to put some of
these things where a much bigger activists you

403
00:33:01,119 --> 00:33:05,960
really are. You're a huge activist, if that's what you I am.

404
00:33:06,359 --> 00:33:08,759
I'm a human right sacist. I
started, I'm going I'm going to ignore

405
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:14,680
the extraordinary. I mean, because
I'm going to dismiss it as an hallucination.

406
00:33:14,759 --> 00:33:17,000
The bit where you actually defended New
York Times and gave it offered it

407
00:33:17,039 --> 00:33:22,079
as an example of of kind of
the media doing its job and and and

408
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,359
representing good causes. But I just
wanted to ask you again. Look,

409
00:33:27,359 --> 00:33:35,319
you're you gave the example of GB
News as as somewhere in the mainstream media

410
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:40,920
which has been speaking out against vaccine
injury. Well, we're only really talking

411
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:47,759
about what the now counseled Mark Stein. Um, we're talking the occasional monologue

412
00:33:47,799 --> 00:33:52,079
from Neil Oliver, and GB News
has a tiny audience. So I mean

413
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,440
you are effectively admitting to me that
a lot of that. I know it's

414
00:33:55,480 --> 00:34:00,799
difficult for you because you write for
these publications, but the Sun, the

415
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:06,960
Mail, the Telegraph, the Spectator, that I mean, you name it,

416
00:34:07,119 --> 00:34:12,519
that every other public, mainstream publication
out there is not reporting on vaccine

417
00:34:12,559 --> 00:34:15,639
injuries. And yet it is probably
the single issue of most concern to the

418
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:21,039
well being of not just people in
our country but all the other countries which

419
00:34:21,199 --> 00:34:23,199
which have forced people to take this
job. And you don't think that's a

420
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:28,840
serious, serious problem that I mean, how can you may call this accounts

421
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,239
of despair? I would say that
things have reached a pretty poor pass.

422
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,960
When the entirety of the mainstream media, apart from one tiny show, what

423
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:42,360
will rather one segment of a tiny
show heavily regulated by Offcom, that that

424
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,679
is the only place in the entirety
of the media which is speaking about this

425
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:51,639
issue of pressing interest to everyone.
You don't think that's a problem. Well,

426
00:34:51,679 --> 00:34:59,119
I think you're first of all,
exaggerating how few gb news presenters actually

427
00:34:59,199 --> 00:35:01,000
discuss vaccine injuries. It isn't okay, say it's the whole of okay,

428
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:06,119
except the whole of gbinus has been
brilliant on vaccine injuries, but we can

429
00:35:06,199 --> 00:35:08,400
agree it hasn't got a very big
audience. And you you are just blithely

430
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:13,519
accepting as was one of those things
that the rest of the media, because

431
00:35:13,559 --> 00:35:17,360
it's been funded by the government to
the directors it's propaganda machine, is in

432
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:22,559
denial about this, this key problem
of our time. And you think that's

433
00:35:22,559 --> 00:35:28,920
okay. Well, I'm not gonna
I'm not going to claim that vaccine injuries

434
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:37,559
haven't been underreported in the vast majority
of mainstream broadcasters and newspapers. But I

435
00:35:37,599 --> 00:35:42,239
don't think it's quite as black and
white as you're suggesting. I mean,

436
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:47,480
there have been discussions of the safety
and then they've blamed it on climate chair

437
00:35:47,599 --> 00:35:52,519
vaccines in more or long COVID that
they've they've raised the question in order to

438
00:35:52,599 --> 00:35:58,519
then kill it with lies. Well, they've they've, they haven't. They

439
00:35:58,559 --> 00:36:00,519
haven't completely ignored it, though they
may have. They may have, for

440
00:36:00,559 --> 00:36:08,000
the most part when covering it,
downplayed it and accepted too readily the reasons

441
00:36:08,079 --> 00:36:12,840
for dismissing those concerns. But I
don't think it's I don't think it's it's

442
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,800
it's correct to say there's been a
kind of news blackout on the coverage of

443
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:21,599
vaccine injuries on every you know,
by every media company apart from GB News.

444
00:36:21,639 --> 00:36:25,039
I mean that's an exaggeration, um
and offcom for all its faults,

445
00:36:25,119 --> 00:36:31,239
I don't think has actually prevented vaccine
injuries being discussed by any of its licensees.

446
00:36:31,559 --> 00:36:35,400
I mean, it hasn't prevented them
being discussed on GB News, and

447
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:39,239
it's not investigating shows in which they
have been discussed and which we're complained about.

448
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:45,440
So I think it's the picture is
a little bit more nuanced than than

449
00:36:45,639 --> 00:36:49,800
than you've painted a ject not for
the first time. Well, um,

450
00:36:50,159 --> 00:36:53,039
maybe we should have that ad from
that person where I get to scoff in

451
00:36:53,079 --> 00:36:58,480
the background. Okay, let's do
that. Yeah, this is a new

452
00:36:58,559 --> 00:37:04,320
sponsor, so we're quite excited.
Um and um yeah, I think you

453
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:08,239
are required to scoff a bit in
the background. This this is this,

454
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:15,239
this is our new sponsor who's called
sald Her is Team Turble. Anyway,

455
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:20,920
James, it's time for us to
introduce our new sponsor. Sal to her

456
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:28,960
CFA who listens avidly to London Calling
from Cambridge, Massachusetts, Sal is decidedly

457
00:37:29,199 --> 00:37:35,719
team Turble and backs the doughty Fs, though not the tragic QPR. Sal

458
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,119
has also been known to enjoy the
Delling Pod, particularly when brother Dick or

459
00:37:39,199 --> 00:37:46,119
Sal's fellow Catholic Laura him more okay. Sal invites listeners of London Calling to

460
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:51,920
check out his own weekly podcast,
which is professionally produced and in its seventh

461
00:37:52,119 --> 00:37:58,719
season. It's called Angel Invest Boston
and indulges Sal's interest in building technology startups.

462
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,480
But it's not all about business.
Sal is also interested in other aspects

463
00:38:01,519 --> 00:38:07,239
of human flourishing, such as the
creative process, the fostering of healthy relationships,

464
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,519
and the maintenance of good health as
we age. A good starting point

465
00:38:10,559 --> 00:38:16,199
for listeners might be the episode titled
Love, Shopping and Cocaine with Sal's friend

466
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:22,039
and neighbor Jacqueline Olds, MD,
Jackie, a shrink on the faculty of

467
00:38:22,119 --> 00:38:25,920
Harvard Medical School, specializes in relationships
and has written several popular books on the

468
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,519
matter, including The Lonely American Drifting
Apart in the twenty first Century. The

469
00:38:30,599 --> 00:38:35,719
interview is a sane and fact based
discussion of the forces that pull us apart

470
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,480
and how we can counteract them.
If you like what you hear, do

471
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:44,880
follow Angel invest Boston on your podcast
app and leave a rating and a written

472
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:49,800
review to help it get found.
You can also follow Saldahar CFA on LinkedIn

473
00:38:50,079 --> 00:38:58,519
and at angel invest bos. That's
at angel invest Bos on Twitter. Okay,

474
00:38:58,599 --> 00:39:01,320
James, yeah, good bit of
scoffing. Guilty when I want?

475
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:07,039
I just aund he ran around.
Yeah he doesn't like the really weirder episodes,

476
00:39:07,079 --> 00:39:12,559
but yeah it probably not. No, um so um, I wanted

477
00:39:12,599 --> 00:39:15,719
to ask you. I noticed in
the papers this morning lots of pictures of

478
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:21,599
the Northern Lights visible in northern parts
of England, and I wondered if you

479
00:39:21,639 --> 00:39:25,000
were far enough up north to have
witnessed any of the Northern lights yesterday the

480
00:39:25,159 --> 00:39:29,800
light show. That would be good. That would be good because because when

481
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:34,360
I went to foul barred. Oh
no, I know why I went in

482
00:39:34,639 --> 00:39:37,840
when when it's twenty three hours of
daylight and that's the wrong time of year

483
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:38,880
to see the northern light, doesn't
it You want to go when it's twenty

484
00:39:39,079 --> 00:39:43,400
three hours of darkness? So no, I would like to see them,

485
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,559
but I'm afraid I'm in the Midlands, Tobes. I'm really not so far

486
00:39:45,679 --> 00:39:49,519
from you. I mean, look, I'm only three quarters of an hour

487
00:39:49,599 --> 00:39:53,960
from Oxford, so it's not like
I'm all. Londoners have an exaggerated sense

488
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:58,639
of where the morpears, don't they. They think, they think go beyond

489
00:39:58,639 --> 00:40:01,119
the Watford Gap and they're be dragons
and it's all just one place. It's

490
00:40:01,199 --> 00:40:06,880
beyond the then beyond the wall,
and yeah it's it's it's kind a very

491
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,360
dangerous, dicey area and yeah,
best avoided. I think that that is

492
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:15,800
the general view of our soft southern
exactly. Um, well it's it's it's

493
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:21,480
not quite as you portrait. We
don't we do anyway, Let's um,

494
00:40:22,079 --> 00:40:24,840
let's get onto um what is it? The is it? The The US

495
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:31,719
Department of Energy has concluded that in
all likelihood, um sarskov to leaked from

496
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:37,239
the Wuhan Institute of Virology. And
this has been, Um, it's been,

497
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:38,880
it's been. It's got quite a
bit more coverage than I thought,

498
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:44,480
because I thought that that was more
or less the consensus now um, and

499
00:40:44,639 --> 00:40:47,880
that that you know, when a
US when a when a department of the

500
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:52,119
US government kind of officially says,
we now think it was probably a lableek,

501
00:40:52,599 --> 00:40:55,519
why is that news? You know? But but but anyway, it

502
00:40:55,559 --> 00:41:00,239
has been treated like quite big news. It's made the front pages. Because

503
00:41:00,679 --> 00:41:02,719
the media is in bed with the
Deep States. There doesn't surprise me at

504
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:07,480
all. Whenever a story like this
breaks, you have to ask you I

505
00:41:07,559 --> 00:41:10,599
mean, you were right to be
suspicious. You have to ask yourself what

506
00:41:12,159 --> 00:41:15,719
are they using it to conceal?
Because it's like a conjurer's trick while they're

507
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:22,920
doing clever things with their hand meanwhile
and behind the handkerchief or whatever other stuff

508
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:27,679
is going on. So that the
whole business with that, Oh, finally

509
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:32,760
we can talk about lab leak theory. This enables all those supposedly conservative journalists

510
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:38,760
who raised this issue early on,
they can now go see I told you

511
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:44,400
so. Finally people are taking seriously
this issue which I mentioned two years ago,

512
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:50,400
blah blah blah. And actually my
theory on why they are saying this

513
00:41:50,599 --> 00:41:57,559
stuff is that they want to promote
the idea that yes, this is a

514
00:41:57,679 --> 00:42:02,960
deadly virus rather than rebadge wu.
Yes it has been genetically engineered. So

515
00:42:04,039 --> 00:42:05,960
it's got a bit of it's got
a bit of AIDS in it, and

516
00:42:06,039 --> 00:42:08,039
a bit of kind of monkey death
and a bit of a bit of I

517
00:42:08,159 --> 00:42:13,639
don't know, some special thing that
enables ables it to reach parts that other

518
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:17,519
viruses can. And everyone's going,
oh, well, maybe the government overreaction

519
00:42:17,639 --> 00:42:22,239
was was was justified after all,
because they were they were protecting us from

520
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,159
this this thing that the like of
which had never been seen before because it

521
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:30,000
was man made. And actually,
no, that is not the story about

522
00:42:30,039 --> 00:42:34,599
about about the planneddamic. The planned
em was was planned. The vaccines were

523
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,599
what were planned, and they were
they were that they were planned to to

524
00:42:37,599 --> 00:42:43,079
make a sick to to to sterilize
us, even as they as even as

525
00:42:43,119 --> 00:42:46,679
they enriched these the farmer companies responsible. So I think the story is a

526
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:53,440
completely silly distraction and it's meaningless.
So this is just another way of trying

527
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:57,239
to distract people from what's really going
on, which is that it was all

528
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,000
planned. Yes, it's part of
a kind of depopulation general and other things.

529
00:43:00,679 --> 00:43:07,960
Yeah, Okay, well I think
I think it's probably to be welcomed.

530
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:13,679
And the reason I think that is
because just as the seeming change of

531
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:19,920
heart about the effectiveness of masks is
to be welcomed. I mean, if

532
00:43:20,119 --> 00:43:24,119
if until quite recently, but certainly
during the height of the pandemic, if

533
00:43:24,199 --> 00:43:30,800
you said on a social media platform
that you thought that the virus had probably

534
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:35,800
leaked from a lab and was man
made, you were accused of being a

535
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:40,960
racist, conspiracy theorist trying to blame
the Chinese for something that had clearly started

536
00:43:42,039 --> 00:43:47,320
in the wild and the Chinese authorities
had no responsibility for. And if you

537
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:52,000
said that you thought masks were ineffective, you were accused of, you know,

538
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:58,920
endangering the public by being a science
denier. So you know the fact

539
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:04,039
that those sorts of arguments were used
to suppress descent from the kind of prevailing

540
00:44:04,199 --> 00:44:09,920
orthodoxes about those two things for about
eighteen months, particularly on YouTube and Facebook.

541
00:44:10,519 --> 00:44:16,440
Now for people to accept that actually
the skeptics were probably right, I

542
00:44:16,639 --> 00:44:23,559
hope means that in future the big
social media providers will think twice before writing

543
00:44:23,599 --> 00:44:29,199
off descent as misinformation or disinformation,
and be a little bit more tolerant of

544
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:32,360
it and accept that, you know, there isn't really such a thing as

545
00:44:32,599 --> 00:44:37,920
the science capital s, and you
know, we should be allowed to discuss

546
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:43,000
it and challenge it and discent from
whatever the prevailing orthodoxy is, because that's

547
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,159
how we eventually arrive at the truth. So I would have thought that generally

548
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:52,280
speaking, even if you are skeptical
about the recent changes of heart about masks

549
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:57,960
and about the origins of the virus, nonetheless it will have the effect of

550
00:44:58,559 --> 00:45:05,800
contributing to a more open discussion and
debate about, you know, our response

551
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:12,079
to these supposed crises, potential catastrophes
that governments are trying to avert, policymakers

552
00:45:12,119 --> 00:45:15,039
are trying to do something about that. That's my optimist But that would that

553
00:45:15,159 --> 00:45:22,960
would presuppose that the big tech was
remotely interested in the marketplace of freely expressed

554
00:45:23,039 --> 00:45:27,880
ideas, let alone the truth.
And it's it's neither of those things.

555
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:34,199
It's the big tech is it is
a censorship industry. A little little more

556
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:39,239
than that. It certainly doesn't want
to create parity of freedom of speech between

557
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:44,480
people who are pushing the death jab
and people who are are queering it that

558
00:45:44,519 --> 00:45:47,280
was that was never the that was
never the deal and it never will be

559
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:51,800
the deal. So um, they're
not going to suddenly have a change of

560
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:55,519
heart because that was never, never
the plan. Do you remember a while

561
00:45:55,599 --> 00:46:04,840
back there was the Danish mask Survey, which which which which was the biggest,

562
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,719
the biggest report ever done on you
know, the sample of the most

563
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:13,960
people, um, and and it
was a proper it was a proper RCT

564
00:46:14,119 --> 00:46:20,400
and and it demonstrates clearly that that
masks made bugger or difference. And people

565
00:46:20,519 --> 00:46:23,639
like you and me and a few
others we reported on this and it got

566
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:30,480
completely ignored in the mainstream media.
Now, this was not because the mainstream

567
00:46:30,559 --> 00:46:36,000
media had reporters who were unaware of
this stuff. It's because it had reporters

568
00:46:36,039 --> 00:46:38,800
who were not allowed to report on
this stuff. And the fact that it's

569
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:44,119
being reported on now is not because
new evidence has emerged to show that,

570
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:49,239
oh wait, how into the second
the masks that we thought were really effective

571
00:46:49,599 --> 00:46:52,840
actually made no difference at all.
It's not that it's not that that suddenly

572
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:58,719
new evidence has emerged. It's simply
that the narrative has moved on to the

573
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:02,000
point now the powers that be,
the people who control the media, and

574
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:07,320
the media does not represent the people
who read it. It represents vested interests.

575
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:12,719
They've now decided that the time has
come for the controlled release of information,

576
00:47:13,039 --> 00:47:19,000
whereby suddenly mask revealed to be useless
and the world moves in lockstep.

577
00:47:19,159 --> 00:47:24,519
Here you so so China is um
is now? I think come March,

578
00:47:25,199 --> 00:47:30,079
you're you're no longer going to be
required to wear a mask in Hong Kong.

579
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:35,079
It's just that's the way the narrative
has moved. It's not that people

580
00:47:35,119 --> 00:47:39,760
have suddenly seen the light. It's
it's it's naive to imagine that the newspapers

581
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:45,119
are represented by people who are just
trying to find out the truth. It's

582
00:47:45,159 --> 00:47:51,320
not their propaganda machines. But then, but there's a sort of gap in

583
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:54,159
your hypothesis about why the narrative has
changed. I mean, if if,

584
00:47:54,199 --> 00:48:00,920
as you maintain, the media is
controlled, big tech is just an engine

585
00:48:01,119 --> 00:48:05,960
of censorship and social control, and
that it was always in the interests of

586
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:08,800
the authorities to get us to wear
masks as a kind of symbol of compliance,

587
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:12,480
as a way of crushing our spirit, and so forth, why has

588
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:15,400
anything changed, How did the narrative
change? If if if the narrative is

589
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:20,920
completely controlled by these dark forces that
want us to wear masks from malignified.

590
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:24,880
I'm not one of the psychopaths.
I often say two terms. It's very

591
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:29,440
hard to get into the head of
a psychopath. These people are not like

592
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:35,559
us. I'm not I'm not privy
to their to their meetings in in in

593
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:40,360
dark and darkened rooms. I don't
know exactly what the strategy is. I

594
00:48:40,559 --> 00:48:45,639
think that that possibly there's a sort
of a sort of safety val things that

595
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:51,960
go on where they recognize I mean, it's a bit like limited hangout where

596
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:57,559
they accept that they've lost this this
stage in the in the information war,

597
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:01,800
and enough people have woken up to
realize that X is so therefore they are

598
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:07,559
going to relinquish that territory to to
prepare their next line of defense. That's

599
00:49:07,559 --> 00:49:10,960
how it works. I mean,
I think I've got a simpler explanation,

600
00:49:12,039 --> 00:49:21,039
James, which is that people embraced
masking partly because intuitively it seemed to make

601
00:49:21,159 --> 00:49:25,400
sense. Surgeons wear masks to protect
patients when they're operating on them. If

602
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:30,119
you're going to, you know,
interrupt people's breathing, create a barrier between

603
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:36,360
people, you'd think it might do
something to curb the spread of a respiratory

604
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:42,239
virus. And the reason and the
reason the dam has broken is partly because

605
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:49,440
the Cochrane Review published this pretty definitive
meta analysis a couple of weeks ago which

606
00:49:49,519 --> 00:49:54,119
concluded that masks do more or less
nothing well to rupt transmission. No,

607
00:49:58,039 --> 00:50:00,440
very highly regardless that that's neither here
nor there. Of course, the Cochrane

608
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:06,639
Review is was helpful in saying the
things we wanted said, but so was

609
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:09,719
the Danish mask study. It's not
that this is what I mean that the

610
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:15,440
newspapers had it within their power to
report on the Danish mass study openly and

611
00:50:15,519 --> 00:50:20,760
honestly, and they didn't because their
controllers did not want it to happen at

612
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:24,440
that time. Now it's become convenient
for themselves for them for them to report

613
00:50:24,519 --> 00:50:30,519
on a different report which says much
the same thing. It's it was a

614
00:50:30,639 --> 00:50:34,800
choice they made, and you haven't
really answered that. You haven't really explained

615
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:37,880
to me, well why it was
that they send to the Danish mask thing,

616
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:43,880
which they pretty much did. I
acquit that was that was a terrible

617
00:50:44,599 --> 00:50:51,639
instance of suppression of inconvenient facts and
pretending they were misinformation, and indeed,

618
00:50:52,199 --> 00:50:58,880
Facebook I think labeled the Spectator post
a bad an article by Karl Hennigan and

619
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:02,880
Tom Jefferson about the Danish mass study
as false, when plainly it wasn't false.

620
00:51:04,079 --> 00:51:07,840
But I think the reason it wasn't
It didn't break the dam at the

621
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:15,239
time was partly because it seemed to
be contradicted by all these other studies admittedly

622
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:20,960
not randomized control trials, but other
kinds of study are much less reliable kind

623
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:23,760
of scientific study. But there did
seem to be a preponderance of evidence among

624
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:30,039
those less reliable studies that masking was
effective. And it's only now that we

625
00:51:30,119 --> 00:51:36,280
can really point to, you know, all those countries which introduce mask mandates

626
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:39,199
or areas within countries, and we
can see that they were completely ineffective.

627
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:45,800
They did almost nothing to interrupt,
you know, the rise and fall of

628
00:51:45,119 --> 00:51:51,000
infections. So I think it's harder
now for the kind of defenders of masking

629
00:51:51,159 --> 00:51:54,599
to kind of make the case,
whereas it was easier in twenty twenty one

630
00:51:54,679 --> 00:52:00,199
when the Dam mask study was published. Right, okay, anyway, okay,

631
00:52:00,639 --> 00:52:04,440
shall we should we should we hear
from our third Oh no, our

632
00:52:04,519 --> 00:52:07,000
fourth sponsor James, and they get
onto culture coal. Yes. I was

633
00:52:07,079 --> 00:52:13,440
just trying to find out that I
was. This is what, Yes,

634
00:52:13,519 --> 00:52:17,280
it is. If you're responsible for
a business and for commercial or by to

635
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:22,280
let property, you're probably keeping a
weather eye on the economy right now.

636
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:29,440
Enter Dan Gaskin, cheerful, fellow
skeptic and owner of Crest Mortgages. Dan

637
00:52:29,679 --> 00:52:34,760
is an ex Royal Navy warfare officer
who has bought and sold companies and thrives

638
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:38,960
on making sure you are financially protected
and provided for with mortgages, life assurance,

639
00:52:39,039 --> 00:52:45,679
equity release or other specialist lending.
Whether you're Team Toby Boo or Team

640
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:51,760
James Hurrah, Dan will help you
navigate help navigate you through stormy economic sees.

641
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:57,000
Dan is also interested in networking with
fellow established business owners in order to

642
00:52:57,079 --> 00:53:00,719
find opportunities to work with people looking
for investment in company or are looking to

643
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:07,119
implement their exit strategy. To talk
through commercial and financial challenges in complete confidence.

644
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:13,639
Call zero one one six five zero
two three zero zero zero and do

645
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please also connect at www dot LinkedIn
dot com. Forward slash in forward slash

646
00:53:20,199 --> 00:53:25,119
Dan Gaskin gas k I n and
to be FCA compliant. Chress Mortgages is

647
00:53:25,119 --> 00:53:29,679
a trading style of Epiphany Investments Limited, which is an appointed representative of the

648
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:32,159
Open Work Partnership, a trading style
of Open Work Limited which is authorized and

649
00:53:32,199 --> 00:53:36,440
regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority,
which chosed to be part of the Open

650
00:53:36,519 --> 00:53:39,039
Work Partnership and all award winning network. Your house may be repossessed if you

651
00:53:39,079 --> 00:53:45,719
do not keep up with repayments on
your mortgage. Okay, culture corner,

652
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:51,639
there was one interesting sort of mini
controversy. I don't know if you caught

653
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:59,440
this, James, but Jessica Barden, who is a British actress from good

654
00:54:00,079 --> 00:54:07,480
working class Northern stock, complained because
Emma Corrin, who is an upper middle

655
00:54:07,559 --> 00:54:12,320
class, privately educated actress who's in
the Crown, recently said she wanted to

656
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:19,719
play a gritty, working class woman, and Jessica Barden says, no,

657
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:24,719
this is cultural tourism. Privately educated, upper middle class actresses should not be

658
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:30,000
allowed to play working class roles.
Those roles should be reserved for people like

659
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:36,320
me who are genuinely working class.
And I wonder I thought of you when

660
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:37,360
I heard this argument, because in
the same way, you don't like,

661
00:54:38,079 --> 00:54:44,159
you know, actors of color playing
roles that should be played by white people

662
00:54:44,519 --> 00:54:49,440
for historical or cultural reasons. In
the same way, do you think it's

663
00:54:49,559 --> 00:54:55,280
kind of a sort of rule breaking
crossing of the divide for posh actresses to

664
00:54:55,400 --> 00:55:01,320
play working class characters? How do
these girls? I think they're both in

665
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:04,840
their probably in the early thirties,
there could be a melo. I think

666
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:07,880
they're younger than that. I think
they're about my children's age. I really

667
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:10,119
don't care what these stupid children say. It's stupid worked children. It's just

668
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:13,920
entirely relevant. I mean, who
are there, They're just they're just people

669
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:20,000
who appear on screen and occasionally go
on the stage. I really genuinely don't

670
00:55:20,039 --> 00:55:22,599
care. It's just drivel. Just
doesn't matter a toss. Seriously, you

671
00:55:22,679 --> 00:55:25,880
don't know. I just think.
I just think there's there's silly girls trying

672
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:30,079
to get and you know, the
only reason the paper papers run this,

673
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:35,880
this absolute bullshit is because they're pretty
girls and they want an excuse to run

674
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:39,239
a picture of a pretty actress while
pretending that this story has news value,

675
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:44,519
and it doesn't. It's just it's
just nonsense. Well, there's a there's

676
00:55:44,559 --> 00:55:49,519
a there's a quite an irascible commudgeonly
take what about the censorship at the bomb

677
00:55:49,599 --> 00:55:54,239
novels? You do you have feelings? I think that was a very nasty

678
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:59,800
piece of work. He was,
He was a drunk, he was ex

679
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:08,519
Security Services. He created James Bond
basically for on behalf of the Intelligence Services

680
00:56:08,599 --> 00:56:15,199
to promote a particular kind of narrative. I mean, obviously they also became

681
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:20,320
quite entertaining. But actually when you
read that, read the novels, you

682
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:25,320
realize that Ian Fleming was not a
very nice character. And I think that

683
00:56:25,599 --> 00:56:30,159
the book should be kept as they
are to show what an unpleasant piece of

684
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:34,599
work he was, rather than be
sanitized for modern audiences. I mean,

685
00:56:34,639 --> 00:56:37,639
I think if you're going to read
James Bond books anyway, you're reading them

686
00:56:37,679 --> 00:56:44,840
as a kind of a period piece
curiosity rather than anything else, and I

687
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:49,079
think they should be kept intact,
with all their their naughty band words.

688
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:58,679
Yeah, I mean, I don't
agree with you about Ian Fleming being a

689
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:01,199
particularly nasty character, and I don't
think it was any It was certainly no

690
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:12,360
angel, but obviously I shared commitment
to preserving the West and fighting our side

691
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:15,360
in the Cold War, and celebrating
the daring deer the British Secret Service.

692
00:57:16,519 --> 00:57:20,599
I'm sure it would have disliked me. That's another here nor there. But

693
00:57:20,679 --> 00:57:27,800
I thought I read a good thing, a good a good pithy summation of

694
00:57:28,039 --> 00:57:35,679
the argument against updating classic books,
whether the Bond novels or roth Dahl's children's

695
00:57:35,679 --> 00:57:40,960
stories, which is that rather than
try and update the texts so they're suitable

696
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:46,079
for modern readers, shouldn't we be
aiming to educate modern readers so they can

697
00:57:46,159 --> 00:57:52,320
appreciate the texts in their original form. It seems to be tendering to the

698
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:57,760
kind of woke sensibilities of modern readers, or the supposed woke sensibilities and modern

699
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:00,559
readers, to say, we need
to adjust what these people wrote so you

700
00:58:00,639 --> 00:58:05,360
can appreciate them and understand them and
aren't going to be distracted by whatever your

701
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:08,280
bugbears at the moment happened to be
sure, it would be better to try

702
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:12,280
and educate people in a little bit
and say, yeah, you may find

703
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:16,519
certain things by today's lights in these
books offensive, but you know they were

704
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:22,880
in the period in which they were
written that was considered completely acceptable and sometimes

705
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:30,440
transcending the obsessions of your particular period
in history is actually healthy and helps you

706
00:58:30,679 --> 00:58:37,320
gain some perspective. But no,
it's it's all about pandering to the modern

707
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:40,079
sensibilities, by which I think they
mean the kind of twenty twenty three faddish,

708
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:47,119
fashionable current thing, rather than broadening
the minds of these little woke snowflakes.

709
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:51,000
Anyway, So that's that's. I
thought that was quite a good quite

710
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:52,760
a good text, Yes, quite
a good argument. More importantly, I

711
00:58:52,880 --> 00:59:00,920
finished oblomof Well did You, which
I strongly recommend, and it's it's it's

712
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:06,559
it's a great novel, hugely admired
by by Chekhov and Tolstoy, who both

713
00:59:06,639 --> 00:59:10,920
wished they'd written it. And did
you ever see the BBC adaptation? No?

714
00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:14,920
Do you know what? I really
really wouldn't like to see it,

715
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:21,880
because it's actually quite a sad book. It's about a man so indolent that

716
00:59:22,159 --> 00:59:25,400
he completely destroys himself. That well, I mean, you'd find it particularly

717
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:30,119
frustrating, Toby, because you're you're
such a kind of um, You've got

718
00:59:30,199 --> 00:59:35,199
such an incredible work ethic. You'd
be like the character Stults, his childhood

719
00:59:35,239 --> 00:59:38,760
friend, who's who's a German?
Who who just is always always doing stuff.

720
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:45,719
Um and Oblom suppose, well,
oblimorf is more is worryingly more like

721
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:51,559
me. Um And yeah, it's
it's, it's sad, it's it's disappointing,

722
00:59:51,599 --> 00:59:55,599
but it's but it's but it's brilliant. I highly recommend that. I'm

723
00:59:55,639 --> 00:59:59,239
now reading Dead, but I can't. I can't comment on it yet.

724
00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:01,400
I don't, I haven't, I'm
not far enough in I just think one

725
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:07,800
should spend much more time. Well, in fact, one should not waste

726
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:15,519
any time reading any legacy media and
instead just devote oneself to literature really pre

727
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:22,719
pre okay, well, in which
case you'll probably disapprove of the book I've

728
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:24,960
just read. I've just read Riding
the Rap, or rather I've just listened

729
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:30,519
to Riding the Rap by Elmore Leonard, which is the second in his Raylan

730
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:38,760
Givens Quartet. Did you ever watch
Justified? So? Justified was a television

731
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:44,320
adaptation of some of these books,
and the central character, Raylan Gibbons was

732
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:46,079
the same character as appears in these
books. I thought it was quite good

733
01:00:46,199 --> 01:00:51,840
Justified, and I noticed also that
the guy who was the kind of exact

734
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:54,760
producer, the guy who was the
kind of chief Haunt show on Justified.

735
01:00:54,800 --> 01:01:00,880
The show runner was also the same
guy who was the chief Haunt show on

736
01:01:00,079 --> 01:01:08,079
Slow Horses, so he's obviously a
talented maker of entertaining television series. But

737
01:01:08,159 --> 01:01:12,000
anyway, so I just finished Riding
the Rap, which I thought was pretty

738
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:15,119
good. I thought the first one
prompto in which the character of Raylan is

739
01:01:15,159 --> 01:01:20,239
first introduced, he's this kind of
cowboy Marshall kind of imagines he's like this

740
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:24,840
wild West Marshall, but operating in
you know, Florida, in Miami in

741
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:29,519
particular, in the kind of eighties
and nineties. Anyway, it's pretty entertaining

742
01:01:29,599 --> 01:01:32,400
stuff, and I gave myself a
break in between Sharp novels. I've just

743
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:37,400
My last one was Sharp's Revenge,
which was number nineteen in the Sharp sequence,

744
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:40,760
and I'm about to get onto Sharp's
Waterloo, which I've been looking forward

745
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:44,320
to for some time. It's about
the Battle of Waterloo. It's not the

746
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:46,679
last one in the series, interestingly, but it feels like the kind of

747
01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:51,840
climax I'm not sure i'll read anymore
after about it. Probably will anyway,

748
01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:58,000
So that's where I'm on my next
I'm on can forgive her the first of

749
01:01:58,039 --> 01:02:02,960
the Palliser series as recommended by you
Have you read audio book that one already?

750
01:02:05,239 --> 01:02:07,719
I've audiobook that one already. I'm
up to the only one in the

751
01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:10,639
Palace. The series I haven't read
is The Prime Minister's Children. I'm saving

752
01:02:10,679 --> 01:02:14,360
him that up. But the others
i've I've listened to all of them.

753
01:02:14,559 --> 01:02:19,519
Yeah, and that the audio is
so good, isn't it by what's he

754
01:02:19,599 --> 01:02:23,320
called? Tim m West? He's
so good at it's so good. He's

755
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:28,519
just masterful. Couldn't be imparted.
I'm trying to work out, well,

756
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:30,559
the first one isn't read by Timothy
Rest, but the subsequent ones are.

757
01:02:31,599 --> 01:02:39,239
I'm just trying to work out whether
I can get any um any any inkling

758
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:45,119
of of of how the plot works
out by my memories of of the pet

759
01:02:45,199 --> 01:02:51,079
Shop Boys song can You Forgive Her? Which which apparently was inspired by Neil

760
01:02:51,119 --> 01:02:54,639
Tennant reading the book when he was
on holiday and then he wrote a sailing

761
01:02:54,679 --> 01:02:59,400
about it. But I didn't realize
that. Yeah, I don't know.

762
01:02:59,639 --> 01:03:01,880
I just remember that line, remember
when you were more easily led behind the

763
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:07,960
cricket pavilion and the bicycle shed,
which obviously is not a reference to eighteen

764
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:14,000
to eighteen seventies England. I don't
think, um, well, but they

765
01:03:14,079 --> 01:03:17,840
actually the central character m the sheet
of the title, if I recall,

766
01:03:19,119 --> 01:03:22,079
don't spoil no spoilers is a little
bit no no spoilers, absolutely not.

767
01:03:23,079 --> 01:03:30,599
And before we go, I see
what I've been watching, Yeah, the

768
01:03:30,719 --> 01:03:35,079
fifth season of Drive to Survive F
one Drive to Survive, which I even

769
01:03:35,119 --> 01:03:42,599
though I find F one racing achingly
dull, I find the TV series really

770
01:03:42,679 --> 01:03:45,960
quite interesting. I've never watched it, but my wife and fourteen year old

771
01:03:45,079 --> 01:03:49,199
son, well, you know,
how have you ever been to a motor

772
01:03:49,320 --> 01:03:53,400
race? No, I don't think. It's really noisy and really boring,

773
01:03:53,840 --> 01:04:00,880
and it's full of I imagine it's
boring because you're watching these cars sparks a

774
01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:04,960
lot of downtime, and then they
come loads of people in hats in you

775
01:04:05,079 --> 01:04:12,920
know, with with with peaked baseball
caps or something like that, and just

776
01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:16,199
that's it. I mean, they're
really fanatical and they think it's really exciting

777
01:04:16,239 --> 01:04:20,840
and it's boring. But the TV
series, which has access to all the

778
01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:26,280
manufacturers and the heads of the manufacturers, the race teams, you know,

779
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:30,199
and the racing drivers and their girlfriends
and stuff, and you get to know

780
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:31,800
them, and you get involved in
the drama of it all, and you

781
01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:35,880
actually care about the differences in the
in the in the design of the cars

782
01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:40,280
which affect that whether they win or
lose. I mean, for example,

783
01:04:40,559 --> 01:04:46,119
the last season Um of what's his
face the Formula one, the British guy

784
01:04:46,239 --> 01:04:54,119
what's he called? The world champion
Um Lewis Hamilton. Lewis Hamilton, who

785
01:04:54,239 --> 01:04:59,400
was unbeatable, has had a really
had a really really crap season because because

786
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:06,199
his car are just wasn't wasn't working
the Mercedes Petronas team which was just like

787
01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:14,039
it was before that it was an
absolute winning machine um. And and meanwhile

788
01:05:14,119 --> 01:05:20,639
Ferrari, who haven't had who hadn't
won the Constructor's Championship for like fifteen years,

789
01:05:21,159 --> 01:05:26,360
they came back this this season.
So you get involved by the way

790
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:30,480
they've started doing it for tennis now
and golf as well, the same formula.

791
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:33,920
Yes, so you make these characters
and and then and you get to

792
01:05:34,039 --> 01:05:38,440
know them and care about them,
and then in the second half they show

793
01:05:38,559 --> 01:05:43,199
them doing things you wouldn't expect them
to do that they sort of it's a

794
01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:46,159
trick. They deceive you into thinking
that there's no way, this guy that

795
01:05:46,239 --> 01:05:49,440
you want to win is going to
win, and then low at the end

796
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:54,880
he's won. Whatever it is,
it's it's great, right right, sounds

797
01:05:55,039 --> 01:05:59,199
entertaining. So I've been watching season
three of Happy Valley? Are you have

798
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:02,320
and if you're a Happy Valley fan? But I watched season one and two

799
01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:06,199
and there was then a big gap
between two and three. But three,

800
01:06:06,320 --> 01:06:11,480
I guess was came out a few
months ago and I missed the whole kind

801
01:06:11,519 --> 01:06:14,800
There was a kind of thing.
It seemed like the finale of season three

802
01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:18,320
was almost a kind of national water
cooler moment. It was sort of suddenly

803
01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:21,599
we were all watching the same thing
again. Well, I missed that communal

804
01:06:21,800 --> 01:06:25,480
occasion, but I'm now catching up
with it, and I have to say

805
01:06:25,519 --> 01:06:29,199
it's pretty good. I enjoyed seasons
one and two, and it's taken a

806
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:32,599
little bit to kind of pull me
back in, but I now feel myself

807
01:06:32,719 --> 01:06:38,199
pulled back in and I'm enjoying it. Are you not a fan? You've

808
01:06:38,239 --> 01:06:45,039
grown? Well, it's it's not
that these dramas are designed to manipulate you.

809
01:06:45,239 --> 01:06:48,880
I mean that they give a completely
false impression of what Britain is like.

810
01:06:49,119 --> 01:06:57,039
I think that I'm very suspicious now
in my new awake mode of police

811
01:06:57,880 --> 01:07:01,960
procedural dramas, because I think one, they promote the illusion that the police

812
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:06,119
actually care about you or in any
way into the dissolving crime. Two,

813
01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:12,559
they promote this image that the killers, serial killers are everywhere, and that

814
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:15,480
they've got to be on your guarden. They make women frightened about being kidnapped

815
01:07:15,559 --> 01:07:20,679
or raped or whatever. I think
what their job is, given that all

816
01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:25,480
TV is designed to brainwash us,
to ramp up us up into the appropriate

817
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:29,119
level of fear. That's what they're
designed for. So I feel that one's

818
01:07:29,119 --> 01:07:32,599
being manipulated, and I don't like
it. Yeah, I mean that's all

819
01:07:32,679 --> 01:07:35,519
true, but nonetheless, you know, it makes a pretty good drama.

820
01:07:35,880 --> 01:07:41,719
But yeah, I was thinking,
after watching Season two, episode two yesterday

821
01:07:42,119 --> 01:07:46,239
that the portrayal of this kind of
I guess it's what a fictional town in

822
01:07:46,559 --> 01:07:53,719
the Calder Valley in West Yorkshire is
so unremittingly bleak, as you say,

823
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:57,320
kind of you know every other man
is a serial killer, and you know

824
01:07:57,559 --> 01:08:01,519
the guy standing next to him is
a rapist or a molester um and there

825
01:08:01,559 --> 01:08:06,480
are almost no benign characters there are
kind of there there are. There's only

826
01:08:06,599 --> 01:08:13,639
one kind of strong, powerful,
kind of moral exemplar, and that is

827
01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:19,239
the policeman played by Sarah Lancashire.
Um and everyone else is kind of good

828
01:08:19,319 --> 01:08:26,079
but weak, or bad but strong, or bad but weak. But it's

829
01:08:26,159 --> 01:08:28,279
kind of like you think, kind
of is it? Can it really be

830
01:08:28,439 --> 01:08:32,079
that bad? In the colder value? Is this an act? Everyone sees

831
01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:39,199
so many drug addicts and alcoholics and
everyone is You know that the local counselors

832
01:08:39,239 --> 01:08:43,399
are corrupt, and you know the
pharmacists are corrupt. And it's like any

833
01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:49,039
any any opportunity to kind of griff
or perpetuate a scam of sun kind,

834
01:08:49,199 --> 01:08:53,760
or to break the laura, to
exploit the poor and the vulnerable, any

835
01:08:53,840 --> 01:09:00,439
opportunity is taken by these kind of
wolves, and only Sarah Lancashire is there

836
01:09:00,600 --> 01:09:04,119
to protect them. It's but anyway, it makes it quite complete. I've

837
01:09:04,119 --> 01:09:06,680
got to I've got to have my
porridge that I now have before the largest

838
01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:11,399
class, otherwise I'll be, I'll
be I'll be hungry. Okay, good,

839
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:14,640
okay, James, good to talk
to you. And we should think

840
01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:19,239
about organizing a live recording of London
Calling before we're kicked off the air by

841
01:09:19,319 --> 01:09:23,439
these ais recommended by the Brookings Institute. I think I think we get a

842
01:09:23,479 --> 01:09:27,600
big crowd, James. We should
talk about okay, right, have fun,

843
01:09:27,960 --> 01:09:47,039
all right, okay bye. This
is London calling Ricochet. Join the conversation.