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It's just like the old radio show with the additibility to swear a lot from
the mac of All Trade Studio in Fairport and driven by Victor Chrysler Dots jeep
Rams. It's bilified the Bill Moran Podcast. Well, hello and welcome.
Thanks for getting your pot on, Thanks for telling a friend. That's how
we spread the word about the pirate ship. Today, Merrily and Steven Circue,
the husband and wife team who make up the law firm that supports this
podcast, Circue and Circuit. Merrily practices family law, Steven criminal defense,
and if you go to Circu Law dot com and click the abount section,
you'll see their good looking faces there. But then if you go into it,
Merrily talks about, you know, the experience at all aspects of family
and matrimonial law, and then talks about out being a Rochester native, went
to Nazareth University, graduated there like my mom did. It, goes to
buff State. Then you see Stevens and it just basically just says, uh,
if you have a problem, I'll help you there. No, but
there was no like any of the other stuff you didn't put I didn't know
why. I can tell you why why. There were a lot of academic
institutions that he went to. Some he failed out of, some he didn't.
So it would be a very long list. So we've left that off.
Well, let's let's not let's not make a mom out of the mole.
I didn't fail out of Arizona State, but they wanted me to come
back with restrictions. I really wasn't a place to be. Wait did you
go do You went to Arizona State right out of high school? Right out
of a quaid? Oh my god, Okay, he can't blame me.
Way to go gronk. So it's like, okay, so yeah, no,
you can't blame me. That's a that's a great school. But it
has quite the reputation it was. It was the eighties, Yeah, it
was. There were no rules, right, sure, was released from an
all boys school, I'll tell ye. Yep, five foot four, one
hundred and twenty pounds in me to Arizona State and home about four months later
with a sick tan. Yeah. So okay, that's pretty interesting. I
think. So from sego Arizona State to where I came home with to MCC
which pretty put me on the path. Sure. Yeah, well that usually
a parent's foot, right, I mean, you know that was that was
like my thing. You got one shot on dad's dime and that was it.
Yeah. I got that lecture every day. Oh yeah. But I
was able to get through MCC on time, get me two a degree and
what would have been a year and a half. Then I transferred to State
University of New York at Albany, Okay, did my last two years there,
and then went to law school at Western Man. That is like night
and day going from Arizona, Well, no Arizona MCC, but you're sort
of living at home. So there's that hope that there's still you know,
that glimmering out there somewhere. And then it turns Albany. I mean I
grew up south of Albany in northern Duchess County. I grew up in a
small area called Pine Plains, New York. I know a lot of places
in New York I have never heard about. Okay, so it's near you
know, Rhinebeck, Okay, so my mom still lives in rhein Back.
But that's where satisfy I grew up, and it was the land of the
haves and have nots. Like Bick had a polo club there and a hunting
club that they would stock with stuff. The big family, and then there
was like the poorest of the poor. I mean it was the largest school
district in New York State per square mile, probably with the smallest population.
It was seven hundred square miles in its totality. Wow. Yeah, is
that the big family that's in horse racing. Yeah, we were just my
son is in the studio too. We were just in a town court and
the judge was talking about the big family because apparently, sadly this past weekend,
one of the horses at the Bick's owned was running where Saratoga. Saratoga
the fastest phillies in the country, right, and she was twenty yards from
on the finish line leading by and went down. Had to be youth.
Yeah. So so there was also like I used to babysit for our family
that he handled the Harvard Endowment and made millions off of somebody. Let you
take care er. Oh yeah, yeah. Justice and Halsey were the kids
names. And not only that, his wife was a freelance writer for the
New York Times. So they used to have progressive dinners with all their other
friends from New York, because you were nine in them miles out said Manhattan
in the you know, the picturesque Hudson Valley. So they would ride horses
through these trails, and I used to go help clear the trails for the
horses. Halsey Injustice. They're they're wonderful, they're they're both. Well,
pull that one just a little bit closer to you, Stephen when you're no,
you yes, please please, so we can just hear you a little
bit, just a little bit better. So how long have you have you
guys been married prior to having the law practice together? Twenty seven years?
Twenty seven years? And how long have you then decided to join forces and
have the have the law firm together? Was too? It was my law
firm, yes, and he decided to join. But that was two thousand
and four, August first, two thousand and four. Now he's my associate.
Okay, all right, well so two thousand, so you're almost on
twenty years. Then next year it's the twentieth anniversary of Circu and SIRCU it
is. Yes, it's gonna be big celebrations, big parties. No,
no, okay, because I think a lot of people think that, you
know, like working with their spouse would be a bit challenging. But I
think from where you guys stand, you're both in really high pressure, right,
I mean, think on your feet something that I feel like you need
to have somebody who can relate to what you do and be able to understand
it and both be a sounding board and other. And I don't think you
really worked together. You're in criminal defension, you do matrimonial law, so
we really don't. But I will say the first month that Steve joined me,
we both had the same primary care physician. We both saw the primary
care physician for what we thought were heart attacks. We thought we were dying
from the stress of just learning to work together, but we quickly learned I
handle all the finances, He handles all the other issues, takes care of
all the staff because I like to be the good guy and he doesn't mind
being the bad guy. Same thing with our kid Marring. By the way,
yeah, well I'm in good cup backup, right, But I mean,
because I would argue that one of the most important decisions you'll ever make
in your life who is going to be your life partner? And sometimes in
these high stress jobs that people can't relate to ship. I mean, you
know, ship falls apart. It certainly doesn't. And I will say,
we've learned to argue very effectively. It's real quick. Steve Cross examines me,
I go down. It's well, I was going to say, because
he is there ever a time. If you're even mad, let's say something.
You know, obviously, marriage, kids, just the stresses of life,
all that stuff that somebody decides to work from home, and someone will
work from the office just so I don't have to look at you today.
Kind of thing that does happen. I would think that sometimes, yeah,
and merrily suspend a little time down to Florida when I'm not there, so
she gets her time away from me. Then I do try to run away
sometimes. Well, I think that sometimes that's almost a healthy thing when you're
absolutely right. Oh my gosh. During COVID, when Steve had to come
home from work and I was able to stay in Florida, it was marriage
saving quite frankly. So, now, having no like experience in law at
AWE, it looks like it requires an unbelievable attention to detail. It does,
and I would think a very important skill that many people lack would be
the skill to listen. I think I think listening is actually a skill to
actually hear, because there's so much in terms of and maybe more than that
is inferential language, understanding what that is in body language and that sort of
thing, and then to think on your feet and a love of preparation.
Yeah, listening. I saw something not too long on maybe a couple of
years ago, and people want to listen to respond yes, and that's that's
not what listening should be listening because you want to hear yes and then then
and then and then you can respond. But listening to respond your position isn't
really listening. It's just waiting for that person to take a breath and then
you're gonna tell him what what you think. As opposed to listening you wanted
to hear, but what we do A very fine judge, Judge Saragosa,
I was a very young DA pulled me into his office and we were having
a conversation about life. I was a young proscor, didn't know anything.
And he said, Steve, you know the formula for success? As I
said, no, you're on it even goes to be a lawyer, and
you could probably use this in just about any other profession. Eighty five percent
of what you should do is preparation. Yeah, and the remaining fifteen percent
is going to be your presentation. So eighty five percent preparation, fifteen percent
presentation. And that's a formula that how much is that having both of you?
I would ask, is having a big personality helped you both? Oh,
my gosh, for litigation, yeah, it's essential. And for sales,
because we really are in the business of sales. Yeah, So it
is absence almost like a charm, right, And then I don't even mean
I like you. Well, I don't mean it like that, because it
almost sounds like then and when you say things like sales, all of a
sudden, every but he gets the slick person in mind. And that's not
what I'm saying. It's it's having talked to you quite a bit in recent
months. One of the things is always that you want to be somebody people
want to be around. Isn't that what something that he seems to say?
And I think that there is really that ability and that when you walk into
a courtroom and it's strangers who are potentially, if something goes to trial,
are going to be making a decision. Well, that's a lot of pressure
to try to get them to see things from your perspective. That's correct.
I mean, like you said, people want to be around people that are
outgoing. Yeah, you know, smart, energetic, positive, positive.
I mean, look what we do, we can't guarantee outcomes. We don't
know. In fact, I tell people, you might pay me all this
money lose everything. I don't know. I'm not the judge. I'm not
the jury, and I can't make the DA do what you want them to
do. So you just have to manage expectations. But your personality is what
for us. We can at times have big personalities. Uh, you know,
we try to temper it when it's appropriate, but most of the time
it is what it is. Apparently you seem to have almost like a traditional
path right to becoming a lawyer. I would say, what school and then
undergraduate and then graduate school or to law school. Well, so I started
in La thinking I was going to be an oscar winning actress and lived there
during the Rodney King riots and early ninety earthquake. Yeah, came running home
to Rochester, wow, and was going to continue in New York City and
my father said, you have to finish your undergraduate degree. So I went
to Nazareth finished Where did you start? I started at the American Academy of
Dramatic Arts in Los Angeles, actually in Pasadena, Yeah, and then ended
up coming back finishing a Nazareth And then I met Steve So I was wait,
so you wanted to be an actress first. Yeah, so that's why
I like litigations. Yeah, I love you know, being in the courtroom
and entertaining. So wow, so what And it was just the those odd
circumstances that changed your idea and not want to stay out. I mean,
La has been I interviewed in La. La was one of these places that
I was like, I don't know, man, I don't think I could
bring my whole family out here. At the time, I was married at
three kids. I'm like, and they're saying to me, well, we'll
pay you this, and I go, it's not that much more than I'm
making in Rochester. Well you could also go and host a game show or
you know, do you stand up? And it's like like, go,
yeah, there's no guarantee. You know what I'm saying. I mean,
it is a competitive it's a weird space out there, well, and everyone
is there just to make something themselves. I did not find that you really
could make really good friends like you can on the East Coast. Well,
there's no authenticity, correct, I mean that's that that's a big thing.
And you you guys are very like real people that I yeh, I could
see that where I wouldn't. Really it wasn't for me at the end of
the day. But I did love it. I mean I had a great
experience. So when you went to NAZ, what was the undergrad because they
have a big theater program or I think now maybe more so than I don't.
I don't know they did. Actually I had five majors and I still
graduated in time, but I was theater, social work, went back to
and then business administration. Jeez, social work a little bit man, that's
driven. Like, So, then what attracts you to law school? Because
you know, I have talked to you your husband and your son, and
they have both said that first year it's almost like learning a new language,
right, It's intense. There's a lot there. What you really got to
be somebody who's committed once you're going to go to law school and also have
this desire to want to help people because most of the people you're gonna work
with it, you're seeing them at their lowest moment. I do, absolutely,
yeah, I mean see people their saddest moment, the hardest moment.
Yes. But for me, I took a business law class my senior year
of undergraduate okay, and it was an adjunct professor, and I don't recall
his name, but he was phenomenal, and all of a sudden I decided
I'd go to law school. So that was really a one professor that I
realized this is what I want to do the rest of my life. It
is interesting when you find that one person that kind of teaches you what What
was it for you though? I mean you went to Arizona State, I
go, I know what's on your mind is having fun getting away from home
as far as possible. Yeah. Honestly, my path to law school was
started in my senior year September of eighty eight, and I was graduating from
Albany in the following May with a political science economics degree, and a friend
of mine, who was a female, just a friend from Rochester. We've
known each other for a couple of years, said what are you doing next
year? And I'm just gonna graduate. I have no idea what I'm doing
next year. She goes, well, I'm gonna go to law school.
I'm like, well, what's law school? She goes, It's three more
years of this. It's two o'clock in a bar. I'm like, I
think I could do this for three more years. And that's how I got
then. I but it's not even like it was nothing nothing, Nothing could
have been farther from what my thoughts were. So that particular week, it
was like a Friday. The next week there was an els at exam.
I went and bought a book, and I had to work during college,
so I was delivering pizzas. I left the book one Thursday night, two
days before the exam, for about seven minutes, and I'm like, yeah,
we'll just figured out on Saturday. I want to did pretty well.
Yeah, it was accepted to law school and what to law school? Not
having any idea what a lawyer did right? None? Zero. He actually
did not know what a plaintiff and defendant were. Yeah, I didn't know
anything. These guys that I went to law school with the men and women,
their fathers and mothers were judges and lawyers and businessmen know that that wasn't
I had a great family, but none of them are lawyers. And I
literally had migraines for about a year trying to figure out what was being what
it was? So what is it in you? Then that says I'm not
giving up? Yeah? Do you know what I'm saying? If you're if
you're fighting migraines for a year, and I know that because there is that.
Everybody has that moment, no matter what it is, you quit.
The greatest stories are built on the I didn't quit, right, I mean,
that's what the greatest stories are. But but I'm hearing she had an
idea of what she was going to do. She had a professor, and
she went, this is what I want to do. So there's a drive
and somewhat of a knowledge, right, and knows what she's getting into.
You step in blind off the cliff. That's why you're fuck I'm sorry.
I love that. Yeah, I love that. I literally I'm Most of
my friends will tell you there's nobody more competitive than me. Okay, I
mean we don't play backgaming anymore because Merrily taught me and beat me like eighty
five straight times. The last time and the last time we played, I
took up, I took the board and shut the board. I threw it
across the room. So we don't play backgam or very competitive. And I
was also in debt about twenty two thousand dollars at age twenty two. After
my first year, I said, I'm gonna give it another semester. I
went back to school. Professor Art Levins will never forget him, was a
mentor to me. I was in the toughest class in law school, which
is called evidence, and I was struggling. I went to see him and
he said, Steve, are you studying? Professor? I study six eight
hours a night, and he said, well, just keep at it,
and eventually, in this very short period of time, it's going to be
a light switch. What do you mean. The light switch is gonna go
on and you're gonna understand how to be a lawyer. And three weeks later
I was studying evidence. The light switch went on and law school was a
cakewalk. After that. First year of law school is just a crazy,
the intense period, but eventually the light does go on. And we've we've
told our son that, and we're going to tell our youngest that who's heading
off to school too. Yeah. Yeah, it's a tough it's a grind.
Yeah, how was the first year's scene? My light has been out
for the year. I haven't found it yet, so I'm still working on
that. But you don't look like it like it doesn't look like you were
overwhelmed by it. I wouldn't say overwhelmed. It's definitely a change in time
management and actually having to sit down and read an amount that you can't read
in a night, learn how to skim efficiently and learn how to answer a
question when your name is called without knowing it's coming. Yeah, so a
lot of on your feet. You'll learn to cover it up. You just
smile through it and keep going, all right, right that that that that
does sound tough, but even I mean, I got to think there's even
cases, especially for you, in these criminal defense cases, at times where
it's got to be like, I don't know where to go with this,
and yet is it that competitiveness that keeps you the drive and also the idea
of protecting someone's rights at the very base of it all. I would think
that's very important. In fact, in the last couple of weeks, had
a couple of cases that some people that are friends or acquaintances will ask about
what it's like to be a lawyer. And I was just out not too
long ago, and there were some people in the courthouse and I have a
rather controversial case, and they said, I can't believe Steve you do that.
You were a prosecutor for twelve years and now you're representing this person who's
charged with a heinous crime. And I let them go on, and I
say, well, I am the buffer between an overreaching government and one of
its citizens. So you may not like what the allegations are in a case,
but if it wasn't for people like me, the government would run rough
shot over everybody, and it would not just be the person in this particular
case there's charged with what are heinous allegations, but it could be an everyday
citizen who maybe made a bad mistake or poor decision, but nothing that should
be bullied by an overreaching government. So that's what I do. Well,
this is where you're right, because think about anybody who's going through anything either
even matrimonial and child custody situations. Like I said earlier, it's it's your
lowest but all of that is so emotional and overwhelming, and our emotions and
are thinking sometimes are effecting. They become affected. They should if you can
separate them, maybe a clinical diagnosis for you and they may have a room
somewhere for you. But that's sort of what you kind of need to do
at times in life to be able to step back and see something for what
it is. Right, great words to say, super hard to do,
super hard to do, but when you so now take that and if you
go into a court of law, you're scared you're not hearing what's being said
exactly as it's being said. There's Latin terms that you're not going to understand
fully, there's language that's not there. So that's where I always think,
like you want to go to somebody that has dedicated their life to this,
and it is and I know because I understand that. I'm sure you know
people say heinous, but it's not. It's about making sure that we're protecting
the rights of somebody as they were laid forth and we don't have an overreaching
for exactly that because you know, given in to take a mile kind of
thing, and it does go beyond whatever this heinous act is it could be
something else. When's the last time the government didn't try to take more than
Yeah, sure, that's absolutely. We see things like Evan and Domain happen
all the time with stuff, and I mean there's all kinds of cases.
The fact years ago there was a draft. Can you imagine today that the
government comes in there, Gold, take one of your sons or one of
my or my son or son. We're gonna put them in a rice field
twenty two hours away. Yeah, are you out of your mind? No?
Thank you? No, yeah, no, thank you, thank you.
You have three kids, what do you teach them about not giving up
on something? I mean, you say, your your competitiveness, but sometimes
you know, flipping back ammon boards and I used to do that with candy
Land. Isn't something that you want them to bed be doing. You know
what I'm saying. Well, I was a little kid. My dad used
always teach me like it would tease me, so you would get like cherry
pits or whatever and you go and I'd have to go back and I was
like five of it. I think this one to our left has done that
a few times. Steven and Steve have that fiery person. Yeah, things
will fly. But you know, I think it's very important that they have
drive. Yeah, So Steve and I never ever ever told them they had
to have straight a's or whatever. Great. We told them to do the
best for themselves, whatever that is. If you're an A student, be
an A student. If you're a C student, be a C student.
But if you're an A student, don't be a C student. And they've
actually all excelled one pent based on that on their own. I mean,
Steven has a scholarship at YOUB and he still really tries hard to get the
best grades he possibly can, even though he's joining our firm, and all
of the said is you have to pass. Yeah, but they just don't
do that. Our girls don't eat. There's a real satisfaction in that.
I mean, there's a whole lot of talk in life. It's a lot
of parents or teachers and educators, how do we build the self esteem and
a kid, how do we build a self esteem? And I had three
kids in one wound up with an IEP. So you would go into these
meetings and all I would say is all I want to do is get the
win, because once you get the win, you can push them further.
A coach yells at you after winning, or at least my coaches did,
and when you're losing. Not that they were soft on you, but there
was a little more understanding because you're already beating up on yourself. But when
you're doing well, that satisfaction of doing something was great. And that's why
I always said I like working with my hands, because you know, on
rate in radio you left at the end of the day there was nothing.
I had, nothing tangible at all, right, and it was three months
before you even saw the results of what it was, and by then you
forgot what you did. Anyway, in their archaic system of rating things.
That's why if you hung a door in your house, I could go,
oh, I did that, And if I did a shitty job, I
did that too. But I mean I did it, and there was some
satisfaction in that. And I always thought that's where real self esteem comes from.
It's the satisfaction. It's a little bit of pride. It's putting on
a suit like that and looking pretty sure, right, it's not trying to
oppress somebody. It's not oppress yourself. Eggs exactly. We spend too much
time trying to impress everybody else. You know, guys buy Porsches and then
they have old ladies hit him on the side of them about now that you
know what I would love to get. I have always wanted to And I
saw one not long ago nineteen fifty five Spider Porsche, the one that James
Dean last drove in, which by it's a great car, and I think
Seinfeld sold one for five for five million dollars. Yeah, if you get
one of those, will split it. I mean, oh yeah, how
unbelievable. I mean those to me, that is like the greatest looking car
ever. And I still think if they at somebody somewhere has James that James
Dean wreck, and I go that you could sell that wreck, that crumpled
wreck for for millions. Because when I started in radio, I used to
I worked for a guy named Rob Dyson, and Rob Dyson raced porsches down
at Limestone in Connecticut and did all kinds of stuff and he used to go
there and Paul Newman would race there. So yeah, right, because they
all they all like James Cagney. James Cagney lived where I grew up,
and all these people that are out racing car flying planes. I want to
go where you go. It's awesome. You gotta come to you know what?
Rhyme Bick just got Mirror Bow and they have the Beakman arms. It
is the oldest inn in America. And Underglass they have George Washington signature when
he signed the guest board. Isn't it cool? And Steve take me there
down? Because what do you spending my money for? She spends plenty of
money. I have a funny I'm spending Hanging on a second, I have
a funny. Oh you know what. Paul Rudd owns a chocolate shop right
on Main Street. Yeah, it's a little chocolate coffee shop. Well I'm
a big chocolate fan and a big Paul Rudd fan. So there you go
out there, Paul Rudd. I haven't seen him there and been down a
bunch, but I haven't seen there. And put by the way, I
have a funny feeling that your wife can stand on her own. But she
had sat firm first. Yeah, yeah, you're not wrong. Well we're
going to We're gonna see Springsteen in a couple of weeks. We're staying at
Mirrorbow and Skinn Atlas concert Friday. Where is he here at Turkey. We
saw him in Buffalo and March and I'm dragging merrily and another couple dot Comnors
and his wife were going to go good down there. We love Mirball.
It's that's when our kids were young. Just to get an hour away,
just drive an hour away. It's like you were gone for two weeks.
Yeah, Skinny, Alice is a beautiful That lake is awesome. What inspires
you? There was something that inspires you? Well? I think my children,
really, I mean, that's my my big thing. But I'm sorry,
Steve, should it be you? Do you inspire me? Probably not?
You inspire me to run away. I like to provide for my family.
Yeah, I mean that's just you know, is that kind of what
makes you tick? I mean, every day get up. We're both real
strong on family, even you know, our parents, our grandparents that are
around still, our kids. I mean we literally everything we do is really
based on it. Did you ever think when you were let's say, when
you started this and before he joined and you guys get married and now you
kind of that eventually your kids would be involved in this? Absolutely? Not
no, right, that's not I kind of figured at least we had three
of three figured one at least one. I figured when Stephen came out and
he looked like the least likely. No I knew. No. I knew
when Stephen was younger, because he was he was independent and he was kind
of mean, and I figured he was going to be a lawyer, independent
and mean. He looks like such a nice guy, so much nicer now
than he wasn't his teens. My brother. Yeah, but that's usually father's
son stuff. It was, you know, I mean, that's usually the
way it is, because I can it is. You were always getting under
I'm me and my old man were always He's actually the only one that will
end up joining us because even though our youngest is going to go to law
school, she's going to practice down South. Okay, so well to we're
in the South. So she's at the University of South Carolina. Oh yeah,
my sisters undergrad there. Oh really yeah, I have said of all
the schools my children went to, that was by far my favorite. Really
yeah, I'll really miss it. I love it there sec the games,
Yeah, I agree. I mean that was when I think back because my
sister is five years younger than me, and I would go visit and it
was always a great time. What a cool little city. And I think
it was around that time that Hoodie did their MTV thing because they were there
and that was the big thing. And then uh yeah, and then my
sister is I don't even know what she studied there. She has a doctorate
in linguistics, but I don't know what she's I think it was the English.
So our daughter is a nursing major. But actually we love Hoodie,
So Steve and I that's our favorite original band when we started dating, that's
who was playing and we went to see his concert. It was actually the
Hoodie Revival concert. It was at Saratoga Correct and there was a big us
our University of South Carolina flag. Yeah, and we both said, oh,
that's where Rhannon goes because she was looking at schools at that time,
Okay, and it just was, you know, kind of great that she
was kind of faith that she ended up going there and she's going to move
to South or Charleston. Yep, great city, look so cool. Yeah,
it really is cool. That's a cool city. And even Savannah is,
which is a little further south, but that's that's another one that's right
there. They're like Yeah. My brother runs hotels and there was one in
Charleston that he was in charge. I'm forgetting the name of it's his basis,
Kenny Bunk. It's uh yeah, it's the Cliff House up there.
Oh yeah, well in South Carolina. Charleston just got voted again like the
best place to live in America on I mean it is a cool little city.
Yeah, that's why that's got to be like really satisfying for you guys,
having shown your kids and expose them to law and the helping you know
of people, and that you gotta do what you love and by the way,
your own thing, right, I mean, you're not working for anybody
else. You're working for your for yourselves, and you've been able to build
unbelievable practice. You know, it's tough. I mean you get out there
on your own and you're flying without a net. I mean yeah, just
it's either you eat what you eat well, Steve says, every every first
of the month, you're back at zero, you know. I mean that's
that's a reality. You got a hustle, yeah, yeah, and I
think that's a big thing. And you went to McQuaid, right. I
loved that school for my kid, and it was It's one of those where
it was it was hustle, it was you know, you learned that thing.
I loved the English class when I remember sitting there hearing about you'll read
three books, we'll discuss one in class, and who read a paper on
everyone per semester? And I went, I don't think I could, so
honestly, I could have done this. Stephen moved there in seventh grade,
so seventh grade was at that time. It was the first It was right
before the first year they started the sixth grade program. So he moved from
Pittsford, which is a great school too, and he moved over, and
I swear the first year, I don't know who cried more me or him
because he was so miserable with the amount of homework. But honestly, at
this point, Steve and I battled about sending him there, and I really
think it was the best thing we could have done. Firently I would agree
with that, I think. And my kid went just high school, but
I thought I never helped him once, but there were times where he was
like losing his mind because I don't know if the work was any harder,
but there was a lot more of it. So our grads went to Pittsford
and I can there's no comparisons night and day. And the interesting thing is
what a great college prep school it really is. Because Stephen flew through University
of Tampa like it was nothing. And I really think that it was the
prep that you learned a McQuaid that really got him where he needed to be.
But almost watching your parents prepare for cases and knowing what they went through,
did you, I mean, that's almost like something you pick up I'll
say by osmosis. Right, it just sort of seeps into your cells,
but you're seeing it, and I don't know if that's a I would think
it's more of an environmental and a learned thing than it is something that might
be genetic. I don't know. But you saw that alone, right,
Yeah? Yeah, we saw it at home. He saw it everywhere.
Yeah. I mean, my dad will cross examine anybody. I remember I
think a hundred dollars went missing from the table one time, and it was
probably six hours after he set me down asking where it went. I finally
admitted to it and it was in a shoe box that I headed in.
So it's just pretty good. Six hours to hold. I sat there for
a really, really long time, and I finally told him when he asked
one more time. Yeah, well, well I knew it wasn't gonna stop.
He's not, he's they're both pretty smart. It wasn't wasn't gonna go
over his head, didn't just fallowed him midday. It just didn't disappear.
So he was young though I was twelve. Yeah, the problem was he
had given me inconsistent statements about what he's been doing that leading up to them,
but he kept digging at that, and that was what kind of got
to me pretty quickly. What was that? Was there any point if for
you in living in that house right growing up, that you went, Oh,
I kind of like this, I want to do that. I never
really went with them to court. When I was young, I went to
University of Tampa originally as maybe a marine biologist major, and I just didn't
enjoy any of the classes. So I decided to take political science, which
is nothing like law school, and then I sat for the ELSA and I
decided that I wanted to go. And once I got to law school,
I did thoroughly enjoyed the first year, although be it very hard, but
like as a kid though, right you're in mc wade McQuaid was, uh,
you know, it was kind of you had to find your spot right
where you fit in. And it's all guys, so it makes it a
little different and no one's there to impress a girl. But there is a
king of the jungle mentality in there. And did you ever use any of
that cross examination on anybody to just kind of prove them wrong, bring them
around almost in a socratic method to their owns. My friends would say so,
most of my friends would say so, I think that's pretty funny.
I think that's good. What have you learned about humanity is in the practice
of law? What do you mean by humanity? By humanity like when you
you're seeing people and I'll say people at their Damien mulconry. Uh, you'll
see people at kind of their scariest or scared moment. But but you know
a lot of times too, I think one of the things that we're often
told not to do, especially in today's world, does not judge. And
I'll always step back and go, well, okay, if we if we
came from animals, I just watched a rabbit run from a fox that's a
judgment right there, you know what I mean, there's a little bit of
a chase. But at the same time, I do think that there is
this idea that you were kind of all one right. You know. When
I was a young lawyer, I was a little bit of a bone in
a china shop. When it came to being a prosecutor, I did it
for twelve years and a very fine judge whose name was Rainbow, and I
was a young da military hair cup. I just wanted to do put people,
put everyone in jail. I would. I was a little bit more
aggressive than I should have been. And one day called me to his office
I didn't get along with at the time, and he sat me down.
He said, Steve, you know, I just want to let you know
sometimes good people make bad decisions. Yeah, And I waited and it was
awkward because I was waiting for him. The finish shoes, you can leave
my office. And before I could even roll my eyes when I turned my
back to him, that like that hit me. So when you say about
judging, what I've learned about what we do is sometimes we may see people
at the worst, but there's good. Yeah, there's a lot of good
right, and you can't judge one bad act or a series of bad acts
to make somebody be completely awful the entire time. We also don't know what
got them there. Yeah, I mean there's a backstory to so much of
what we see, and it causes them to almost self destruct a lot of
people, and there's there's sometimes they are very good reasons for it. Yeah.
I always think too that there's a very base philosophical theory that everything comes
from the light, the good, and then what we see or perceive as
evil is just a privation of that good. Right, So if everybody comes
into the world and and well we'll hear all these different things about you know,
circumstances and and certain privileges and things. And yes, some people come
into circumstances that are better than others. But I think at the end of
the day, you kind of have an opportunity to get ahead if you play
the game right. It's just learning what the game is. And sometimes the
people that are teaching aren't the circus. It's somebody, you know what I'm
saying. We're trying to refocus. Yes, yes, so people maybe because
people get caught and they don't they can't see the walls around you know,
over the wall around them, and I can let's let's refocus you, let's
redirect you in this direction, and we'll get around the way. I don't
think go through it. Just gotta get around it, climb over it,
especially with divorce, because when people are getting divorced, I mean it's you
think, when you stand at the altar and you marry someone, it's a
forever thing, and when you get divorced, you're breaking up a family.
Oftentimes kids are going to be separated between two households. It's just a it's
such a bad time for so many people, and they don't see the future
and the good in the future. So it's kind of helping them get to
that. But when they initially come in my office, I mean they've been
on the floor crime before. I mean, people are just at their absolute
saddest, saddest point in their lives. And we both came from divorced family,
so we saw the good and the bad of co parenting and try to
get to that place. Like my wife's parents, they're friends, the in
laws, the x is, they're all friends. And it took a long
time for my parents to get there. But It was mostly because I told
them, I want you to be like her parents. They could sit in
a room with actually like metal utensils. We had to get my parents like
you know, last oh, early in the day. I think at our
rehearsal dinner they were in different rooms. And during the birth of our first
child, at least I think they were in different and we finally said enough
because it's a lot. And you think, you know, you're passing that
down. It's a generation as you now, so you're making it instead of
it just being about you, now it's about your grandchildren. Your children,
you're great, how are they? Were? They responses that, I mean,
that's that's almost the younger generation teaching the older generation. Now. Sometimes
it doesn't fly as well. Well. My father in law was tough.
He was an entire police officer. Took him a little time to ben but
now he's a real SOFTI yeah. But it was funny because Merrily said,
oh, we're gonna want the dinner tonight, Oh my dad and my mom.
Like, you mean your dad and your stepmom, he goes. She
goes, no, well you mean your mom and your stepdad? Shehes,
no, not the dinner room. My dad my mom and their husband and
wife. I go in the same room, the same restaurant. Yeah,
and she's like, yeah, I go, that's the craziest thing I've ever
heard. Are we gonna sit the same table? She was, yeah,
okay, let's see how this goes. Yeah, and it probably went fine.
It was they were my father, my father's new wife, his her
ex husband, drove him to a surgery. I mean, they all hang
out, they traveled together. It was there. They're all very It wasn't
that is somewhat unique. It wasn't at the time. He's right, but
it has gotten way better. It's very mature. I mean, look,
they put the kids first. Well, see, that's the thing, and
that is always the thing, and that's when Marrily's dealing with her matrimonial clients.
Yeah, you know, we stress the children are the biggest asset in
any relationship, right. Well, they try, I mean, they they
try to put their kids first, and they think they're putting their kids first,
but so often, as you said, you're not really seeing the reality
and people are so triggered, and you know, well, I always think
like, since you bring that up, not seeing the reality of your of
your situation, what's going on over here, Swiss brain, sweet nothings across
the table. I think that's great for him to see, right. No,
No, nonepends on the time and place. I don't know, but
what I was gonna says sometimes beyond like everybody, if you had two people
they went to the same party, right, one person leaves and says,
how great they what a great time, it was wild, it was this,
and the other person was just miserable. They were miserable when they walked
and they left not having a good time, and trying to see things from
a one perspective, is impossible that it can't happen. I mean, if
something could happen in this room and a half hour later, I think maybe
all of us may have a slightly different interpretation of that, which is really
complicated when it comes to I would think what you practice in criminal defense,
but with matrimonial law and all these there's do you ever advise beyond the courtroom
stuff? Do you ever say to somebody, Hey, here's a counselor I
would say, talk to or here's somebody's advice, or maybe something for your
kid. I don't know. Does that is that overstepping No? No,
no, no, that's so much. And I think sadly we're a bit
a therapist as well. I mean I started tell clients I'm not your therapist.
You don't want to pay my really rate for therapy, but you absolutely.
I mean the very first thing I do is ask if their kids are
in therapy, provide therapist names if they're in therapy. Everyone going through a
divorce needs a therapist. I don't care who you are, right, I
don't care how well you think you're doing. There are things a therapist can
assist with, especially just through the transition. How do I just transition from
being coupled to being single? How do I transition my children from being coupled
to being single? And that is of paramount concern in my practice. Yeah,
that's it. Those are I gotta think tough conversations sometimes for people to
hear I don't know how much they are to say. I mean, it's
part of what you do. But I think for people to hear that stuff
is got to be so I hate to say. I mean, do you
have a stock and cleanex or anything? Right? So I tell people I
do. I say, I have stock and and we have so many boxes
and before people even start talking, they start crying, you know, So
it's h yeah, we go through a lot of all. Right, So
there's both of you in terms of that stuff. It's heavy shit. So
what do you do to get away from it all? Because I've I remember,
like early on a pediatrician saying to me, hey, you should go
to therapy because one of the boys was sort of on the spectrum and there
was a lot of therapy and different diet, right, And he's like,
you can't be good for anybody else if you're not best with yourself. So
here you guys are hearing some really tough things from people and what they're dealing
with. What do you do to get away from it all? So I
think self care is so important yea, And actually it's so important to not
get you into the position of having to come see Steve or I because I
think of self care is so important. I mean, if you're not happy,
nobody around you is happy, right, right, So, and that's
something you have to figure out. But I think that comes with age.
I sadly think young people will just run themselves into the ground. They give,
they give, they give, they care too much about youth is wasted
on the young, Wasted on the young certainly is so for us. I
know for Steve and I, exercise is crucial for our mental and physical health,
and that is we have to both do that every single day. But
other than that, downtime, I mean, I really try hard when I
travel to decompress, turn off my phone the best I can, and spend
time with my my friends and family. But also I do like to shop
for purses and shoes, but those are my my downtime things. I'd agree.
I mean, we do persons shoes. She don't know, she just
persons And she was like, no, I don't even know. That started
long before you know what I think. There's like, so there's a mall
in the there's a mall. There's a store in the issue mall. It's
not not purses, but it's it's sneakers, right, So a lot of
people are now getting into what they call the sneaker game. I gotta think
there's gotta be resale market for these persons. You have no ideas so actually
pursues the one zie in vest and are actually worth way way more than my
But I can buy him and flip him and wait, make a lot of
money, I'm sure so, but are always in the sneaker game. He
has a ton of pair of collectible sneakers. When you're young, do you
ever go out to the plug the plug? No, I've never seen the
plug. The plugs in the Eastue mall. And that's it's that they do
some people on consignment, you know. And I didn't realize there's a new
pair of Jordan's every week. Every week they put on a new Nike puts
on a new pair of Jordan's. So in Soho when you walk around,
they queue outside of Nike when a new release is going to come out,
and there are a couple of other places like that they do the sneakers and
they queue in you know, long long lines to try and get these,
and then of course they then they put them up on the resale market and
make a few bucks. I have a friend who buys, will buy as
many as he can, and he'll go to the outlets in Toronto, maybe
Waterloo, other places if he's in New York or if he's emen out in
California, and he'll sit on him for two years and then sell them.
I mean, he pulled in here once just to show me he has a
Mercedes Bes suv. The whole back trunk and back seat, we're all filled
with boxes and sneakers. And he was coming back from Toronto. We actually
went to sneaker con Steven and that all really Yes, Wow, they have
anybody famous there? Do they bring anyone like any athletes in or anybody who's
pitching? Now, they had people who designed shoes for ask. Okay,
like I got a pair of shoes from a guy who'd made a bunch of
shoes from Michael Jordan and a bunch of basketball players. How do you know
that Steven? I mean pictures with him and he was holding the shoe with
Michael Jordan. You needed him to cross examine? Yea, How tall is
he? What's he looked like? What's his favorite team? Who is it
harder for to bring someone home you or your sisters to get meat to get
him home? No? No, no, no, no. Let's say
say you bring home a boyfriend or girlfriend and you've got to cross examine.
I'm gonna I'm gonna guess that it's probably harder for your sister. Yeah,
on dent from my sister. But I've been with the same girl for eight
years, so she's actually gonna be she's our summer associate as well, and
she'll be coming in and doing what I do, doing matrimonial really, so
Steven will be doing what Steve does and Kylie will be doing what I do,
and they're both gonna be great as the next generation coming up. And
then your daughter who went to is gonna do medical wall she'll medical male practice
and stuff. Yeah, her boyfriend was just drafted by the Yankees, so
we'll just see where he goes. He's there, they're both Does she meet
him at the university? Second one? So she went off to college,
great baseball school. Yeah, right, but they he is a right handed
pitcher. His father actually played professional football for the Jets in Tampa Bay.
He was the center for Joe Nameth, his father's seventy two Because he's not
his first marriage, gotcha, but this young guy first semester, so I'm
not dating anybody through college, forget it. Within three months she met this
kid and they've been together ever since. So he's a great kid. We
love him. Actually, he puts up with a little one. Little one
should we call her a little one because she was the youngest. Yeah,
three kids in three years. Like, where's the little one that I think
my favorite story that you told me about little one was when she went whipping
down on the bike and out without the helmet on, almost got around a
car. Yeah, she would have been dead. But then I think,
kind of put you on your heels. Yeah, I chase her down in
my car, my convertible. I had a little BMW pulled up next.
First she stops. She looked at me. I said, little one just
came on the driveway around the car. He would have been hit by cars,
goes I don't like to be followed. She tore off merrily. We
got a problem. We have a problem with the five year old. I
don't know what we're gonna do. She's been that one. Is fiercely independent.
She was going to be a lawyer. I knew right then she was
going to be a lawyer. Yeah. This big kid, Kate Austin,
he's six foot four two forty. Shit's about ninety five miles and hours got
an unbelievable change up. Gets drafted by the Yankees on a Tuesday. He's
in Tampa on Thursday. He's been there since for about a month. We
were listening to this is he in single A. So he's in rookie.
He should be on the Tampa Tarpans, which is the low single A team,
before the end of this season. The coaches yesterday how great he's doing.
And he's a cool kid. But Tampa is a great little city too.
Yeah, Tampa's an interesting city. That's where my college roommates son just
got into the University of Tampa. He took a buy out from his company
and they're building a house not close to the school, but they want to
be out of here anyway. And there are other daughters in a senior next
year in so they figured they're just selling it out. Tampa has become incredibly
popular, especially this area. Yeah, I was like clear Water from that
area. But yes, Tampa it's a cool city. Yeah, I hear.
If you get a boat down there, it's great. Here we go.
No, I've see Steven tells all these stories that I always loved it.
I found that to be so impressive. I have to tell you,
honestly, I really found that impressive. Not to bring up anything. And
I hope you don't get like some kind of okay, Yeah, it's okay,
it's been fighting. Actually, I got a new boat now. You
do. Yes, okay, well you fish and and you make money fishing.
I have made money, yeah, yeah, yeah, what what is
your do you prefer deep sea freshwater? It doesn't matter any all freshwater freshwater?
Yeah, okay, you didn't do anything when you were in Tampa down
on golfer in freshwater boat and I drived all the inland lakes in the area
because they have great pass fishing. So really, yes, how many alligators
did you see? Yeah? I mean were like birds at that point.
So my brother had worked he was an economic forecast for Disney for a little
bit, and I remember going down there and I mean just in a pond
behind his condo, right there was stuff. Yeah. Yeah. He used
to send me all the there'd be articles of people dying by alligators, being
eaten by an alligator. So one day I sent them back an article of
a guy getting hit in the head with a golf ball and dying, and
he just responded and said, touche, that was that? Every day?
Does he have his life check it on? Is he watching out for the
gators? Yeah? Well you never know. Those things are prehistoric. Yes
they are, they are, and they're they're they're they they Trapp you'd even
know it. Bambush you, right, and by ambush you could sometimes.
I remember being in in the Jacksonville a y sat Saint Peter and Saint Petersburg,
Saint Augustine, and uh. We would go down there and my parents
were teachers, and I don't know, we would weld drive down, which
was like torture, right, But then we would go and there was a
dock that went out on a lake and we see an alligator sunning itself.
My father says, hey, let's see how close we can get down to
it. So we start walking down and the thing jumps up and turns and
goes into the water. My father turned around and he's pushing it. I
thought he's gonna run me over. He's pushing me back, screaming it.
I mean, they moved so quick. They moved so quick, and you
know, you think of the tragedy that happened at Disney with that, I
mean, then you know, on a nightmare. And yet I don't know
what they I mean, they have no fear. I was playing golf one
day and I was playing pretty well in them. I hook a ball a
little left and there's water, and I know there's water, and the guys
I'm like, well, maybe it's on the water. I know it's in
the water. I was fit to be tied. And I get up to
the water's edge and I can see my ball and it's about four feet into
the water. And I'm not paying attention. And if I had not,
if I'd brought my clubs with me, it would have gone right in.
And when I went back, I saw there was an alligator about three feet
just staring at me. So now I got a mess with it. So
I take one of these rocks that's good size, bigger than a softball and
maybe the size of a volleyball, and I throw it up in the air
perfect not towards it. I did know it's towards it, and I hit
the I hit this alligator right on this snow. And guess what the alligator
did. Nothing. Yeah. I'm like, Peta is going to be honest
tomorrow. He loves the animals, yea. And I'm like, it didn't
even move. I'm like, any alligator purses in that closet or no shoes?
We did. We did get something held in customs. On the way
back from Italy, one of my leather jackets was made from a python.
I did not know that. Wow, they why would they hold that though?
Because it's a danger. Yeah, so it had to go back for
appropriate papers. But if you travel, I just learned this with anything exotic,
so exact purses, belt shoes, you actually have to bring that documentation
with you or they can take it when you go into a different country.
You're kidding, Oh, I'm serious. I had no idea. Man,
somebody's got some nice stuff in there. Terrible, that's like it. It
didn't really. I think that that was a great trip Italy. If yeah,
where'd you go? We started off when in Teamina in Sicily, which
was beautiful. Yeah, and that's like you know what, No, I
wouldn't go back to Sicily. I think my wife would either because Sicily literally
is like you've seen the Godfather. It's a desert with some green but it
was beautiful and the food was off the charts. And then from there we
flew to Rome and had spent three nights from that's just a big city.
Was beautiful history, but the history there to do it, you gotta see
the history. I mean literally, you're going by a new building next to
a building that's you know, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years old,
and then they're sifting right next to that for ruins, right, I mean
never, you know, you're not. It's unbelievable. From there, we
went to Florence and that was our favorite. I could live there forever Lawrence
was. Florence was off the charts. It's in Tuscany, the wine.
I was gonna fin minus way. The city's beautiful, it's old school,
I mean, it's we stayed right there was. It was the greatest trip
ever. Now it is nine hours by airplane and as you probably guess,
I don't only sit still, so I'm not probably never gonna do it again
without good really, oh god, my wife just want to Spain without me,
and my mother just went to Spain last year. Or love. Yeah,
I've been to a coast of Del Sol in Madrid I loved. I
went to Marbeia, which is down at the southern tip. That was ridiculous.
Yeah, it's beautiful next to Rod Stewart. I have pictured that.
Really, it's where the wealthy of wealthy of Europe go to play. Yeah,
it's probably like Monica, although I haven't been to Monica, but it
was unbelievable, sat next to Russell soon breakfast you did. Yeah. The
place I stayed was called the Marbaia Club and it was unbelievable. So wow.
Yeah. Then I went to Barcelona, which I liked to Barcelona a
lot. It's interesting, see, I mean there's I always thought Barcelona,
like we're at two o'clock. The whole city seemed to just get so quiet,
look of mostly if they rolled to sidewalks and everybody takes a nap.
Yeah, but the city like now I went. I was fairly young,
and I didn't see the city come alive again until almost eleven pm. So
when I was at dinner every single night. First of all, I'm in
bed by eight, so going to dinner at ten, which was really not
easy for me. So you know, people are literally sitting with their little
kids at twelve midnight, right, but they've gone to bed and had a
snack at six, you know, and then they've It's a very different and
I don't know if it's a healthier lifestyle. They're all thin. They're all
thin. They seem to drink a lot of walking and drinking of wine and
things, which isn't as bad as some of the stuff that we probably consume
here, and the food is certainly not as processed. But I don't see
that overwhelming drive to you know what I mean anything, Well, you know
what I'm saying. And I don't know if that's a fair statement or not,
but it feels that way when I'm s So. Our oldest is a
teacher at Mercy, Okay, and she and her boyfriend loved traveling. Yeah
and so, and she's a history teacher, so she wants to go see
the history that she's teaching. So they've spent eight weeks abroad spending They were
in Portugal, Spain, Bali, and now Singapore and then they're coming home.
Wow, that's why I went to Spain to meet up with them.
They're very well traveled and they stay at really inexpensive Airbnb, some that didn't
even have air conditioning, like it's one hundred and something there, But you
know it is. It's a totally different lifestyle and they love it. I
mean, they love the sitting back at four o'clock in the afternoon and taking
an app Steve and I want to die when we go travel. I mean
when we were in Italy, we lived like a what can we do from
four to seven, right, it's a different thing. Yeah, it's funny
because my brother did. Uh he did a lot of cool stuff. He's
my younger brother, but he did things backpack through Europe, had studied abroad
over in England and then went down into Italy and Rome and wound up in
a private audience with the Pope by just oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
which was like a big deal because are you know, coming from a big
Irish Catholic family, that was a big deal. And then uh, so
he's the favorite, you know, I gotta say, I think so Maryland
because he did some really cool stuff, like he went to uh he went
to flight school. Originally he had been flying planes around the same time he
got his license. Then he went to Indiana State for flight school. Hit
a wind, shear hit something else. He goes, I don't like this
anyway. Our uncle was a pilot for Delta, lived in Park City,
and so we had you know, it was all that stuff. He liked
flying planes, but felt like they were he could do more. He wanted
to do more stuff, so he left. He went to the community college
and lived at home. Hated living at home. Finagled some deal through the
Community College to go and study in England, and he went over to Cambridge
and then and was there and then traveled through Europe, came back, went
to Cornell through their Labor Relations school, their labor school, and then wound
up being a negotiator for contracts with the Fire and Police Department New York City.
I think it was I think it was Mayor Dinkins at the time,
and uh somebody. They were celebrating thirty years of doing that. My brother,
good, I can't, I cannot do this. So he bought a
bike, sickle bicycle, went out to Seattle, hung out with a friend,
and then found all these books about biking back and he had trained for
about a month and biked from Seattle to Virginia. Come on, how long
is a book about bike? So there's well, tells you where to go,
there's tells you where to go? Where to But he said to me,
goes, look, I didn't even know how to change a tire on
the bike. He goes, I learned all that stuff. There were hostiles.
He was all that. So for a long time he wanted open hostiles.
Then he went and got his master's at Albany in economics and then became
a forecaster at Disney and knew that was only going to be for a finite
amount of time, but had a lot of fun down there and that his
wife and then uh wound up up in Kenny Buck. Yeah, it is
pretty cool. They are all the different paths. One last question for I
guess both of you you have helped people kind of at at their lowest moments,
So I would think that you got to have both of you have to
have a certain level of strength, you know, to be able to do
that. What scares you? No, No, I was letting I know
you were, but I looked over merrily and she's like, I don't think
anything. I don't think anything. Do you know what's funny? I probably
had a lot of fears when I was younger. I've had a fear of
flying, out of fear of my health. I had a fear, you
know, all those things, and as I've gotten older, I really don't.
The only thing I fear is things I can't control still, so you
know, I mean, I don't mind the flying. I don't want,
but yeah, you worry about other p your family's health, your parents,
right, But other than that, I really have no fears. Yeah,
I would think that that's probably the best way to live. And I always
say to my kids with certain things, is you can go down the road
of a million different scenarios of what could happen, but you don't know,
So why burn calories doing that? And control what you can control. And
what you can control is how you feel, what you think, your attitude,
You control those things. Everything. This is gonna better. So and
that's it. And if we didn't learn anything from COVID, it's yeah,
that's we can control, Like, how did we handle the moments when we
were scared during that period of time? How did we stay happy? Popped
up? You know? Yeah? And positive? That that's really important.
That's pretty deep. Yeah, nothing, not deep, actually honestly got And
this is going to sound a little corny, you know what I fear.
I'm I'm the luckiest man in the world. Yeah, I've got a great
wife, a great family, a great job. I think every time I
see you say something to that, do you realize it? He says that
about you every time he sees you. Two he's so I'm not I'm not
even trying to just say it to blow smoke up his ass, which has
no bearing for me at all. But I would just say that every time
that has stood out to me as to how complimentary he is about you.
Every day he tells me how beautiful I am, smart, great, I
love it. I have so many friends whose husbands don't do that. You
don't, They don't champion each other that way. Yeah, but I think
it's a genuine thing, and I think the consistency of it tells you that
yeah, sorry, no, it's nothing. You mean me to marriage apologize
that it's not not my place at all, necessarily didn't work for me.
I fear. I fear when it's all gonna be over right, Yeah,
I get older, my energy level's gonna drop. Yeah, and that's that's
scary. Here's anti aging doctors. Now, don't worry about like that's like,
that's what I don't want to get over. No, I can stop
right now, be good. See, Okay, So that's the thing.
It's like I always think that that's an interesting statement, because I go,
you never want to stop going through time. You don't want to experience things,
You want to keep going right. You just don't want it to end,
right, And there's got to be a way in some infinite way,
Like I I have these weird beliefs that like we're all energy, so energy
is infinite, that you can't destroy energy. I don't know what happens.
That's my same. Yeah, that there is no anything and most of the
stuff with you know, I think there were great teachers on earth, and
not to get to her, but like you know, Jesus was the wonderful
teacher. There were great lessons and there were many things that I always thought,
like going back through the Bible. You know, my my parents were
pretty Bible based, and uh, I remember going back to the Bible,
and I thought there are certain lessons in there, like you know, go
forth and tell no one. And the reason is because they're just gonna put
doubts in your head. So if you really want to do something, go
forth and say nothing. You know, I mean, because just think about
it. You know, all of a sudden, he puts your ear back
on you. Yeah. Right, you have a week. It's gonna fall
off. Believe me, man, I've seen this happen before. Negativity breeds.
Now keep your success right. The last said the better and everything that.
Steve and I disagree, disagree that why what do you mean I always
talk. I don't, I've I have no secrets. Well I don't.
I don't mean it like that. I'm just saying, like, when you're
gonna do something before someone comes in, Like if you were gonna go all
of a sudden YouTube you decide, hey, we're gonna be circu and circu
Right, I'm sure there are people going, but come on, husband and
wife working together. You guys are gonna kill each other. And I would
think that that kind of stuff. That's what I'm talking about. So keep
that's so you don't have it in your world until you need it. You
can't. You gotta just you know, grow in silence. Yea, our
family at Bosa don't do that. That's the dumbest decision. Every decision that
I've ever made, somebody would have said it was stupid, right, terrible,
right. But you got to make the decisions you think are best for
you. Uh huh. Has anybody ever come back and said, wow,
I was wrong? Oh my got my father. I love my father to
death, but whoa, that's huge man. I'm sorry advice he's ever given
me. I've done the exact opposite. And the way you said, you
know you're wrong, on that and he you know, it's it's unbelievable.
When you know you're going to be successful or you're gonna you want to get
to a certain point, you just do it. Yes, yeah right,
that's the drive in the hustle. But to have your father come back,
yeah right. Dad's are proud and they're very protective of their daughters and they
don't want to you know, and they want to be right. There's something
about being right. Oh my gosh, Steve that shot there. That's all
right. We'll end on that shot. How's that? Thank you? Circu
and Sircu. You can find them online at Circu law dot com. Tale
didn't know what to do. I'm trying a tv Ironsmoke Distillery right here in
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Baby and East Rochester roar Bock Brewing Companies. Railroad Street Beer Hall,
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