What is Kraco acting and hardware nots listeners, I am Dan Valley coming at
you once more without my fantabulous co host Adam Cromwell. Our team look Ahead
train rolls on. We are up to the Phoenix Suns. So naturally,
I brought out Mike Field and Sam Cooper from the Timeline podcast. Those guys
do a great job with their podcast their YouTube channel. They have a Patreon
now you should subscribe to it. Excuse me, You can get a bonus
podcast episode per week. They have a very interesting over under episode where they
make up some fake lines about the team and go back and forth with their
guests choosing over under. I was actually a little bit surprised that the picks
that came out on DeAndre Ayton's over under for three point attempts digressing there though.
Follow them on Twitter. Mike can be found at at protected pick spelled
exactly as it sounds. Sam is at s Cooper Hoops, or as he
calls it, Scooper hoops sometimes spelled exactly as it's. Had a great conversation
with them. As always, they were also nice enough to as someone who
prized themselves on being available and punctual. I was fifteen minutes late because I've
lost track of time because I was exhausted. They waited around for me A
super appreciative of that, So I just want to give them a shout out
for being so flexible and generous with their time before we get started the usual
housekeeping notes here. Please please, pretty please continue rating, reviewing, and
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We cover the league at large. We are pleasantly sub mediocre, only
mildly insufferable. I call that a win. Moving on, though, let's
talk lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of Phoenix suns with the
fellas from the Timeline podcast, Mike Wiel and Sam Cooper. Mike, Sam,
thank you so much for coming back on the Hardware Knox podcast to talk
some Phoenix suns with me. First and foremost, however, how the hell
are you two doing after that? You know, after a good off season.
You guys had a pretty wild actual basketball season last year, a lot
of stuff going on. So how did the actual offseason treat you? I
mentioned this to Sam yesterday. I feel like I'm still in like different stages
of grief depending on the day after the finals loss. Today, I feel
good, you know, I feel right today. I felt grief for a
while. It's a natural reaction, but I got over it. Mike and
I did this whole We called it an internal development series on our podcast.
This was a couple of weeks ago now, but we kind of talked really
through the development of all the young players on this core Devin Booker McHale,
Bridges, DeAndre Aton, Cam Johnson, campaign, YadA, YadA, And
I was kind of grieving going into that series, but coming out of it,
and I know Mike feels the same way. We really sort of talked
ourselves into this team again, and I'm like fully past grief, I'm into
acceptance, and I'm once again really excited for the season to start. Honestly,
I wish preseason we could kind of just skip it and go straight to
Game one, but it's gonna be a couple of long weeks. Yeah one,
I can't stand preseason, so I'm totally with you. To the internal
development series was really good. I did not listen to the campaign episode yet
and I'm in the middle of the eight one, but people should check that
out from the Timeline podcast. Very easy to find this. Did it make
it harder or easier to accept the fact what happened the Finals? Knowing that
the Sons were like kind of one of the biggest surprise finals teams in recent
memory, where those you guys were high on the team. I remember talking
to you last year entering the year, but no one was hey, they're
going to the NBA's Finals high at that point I think for me, there's
like the they're ahead of schedule, like ultimately they're ahead of schedule, but
like at the same time Chris Paul, like there's this sort of dueling I'm
gonna say the word dueling timelines for this team right now, where there's the
young guys and the attempted development developed them as quickly as possible in order to
be as good as possible, and then there's there's sort of the race against
father time for Chris Paul. Right those guys need to be as good as
possible before Chris Paul starts declining at all, which you know, in my
opinion, he didn't really decline last season. There was an injury I think
in the playoffs that affected his play late, but even in the playoffs he
averaged over twenty points and an insane number of assists. A great season for
Chris Paul. So in one sense, it's great. In another sense,
it's kind of hard to pin down exactly what's going to happen like this season,
but even beyond this season, because I think it makes sense for the
team right now to go all in on this season and do everything possible to
win this year with Chris Paul being where he is, But then like,
at some point, I can't help but think about what happens when he does
start declining and his skill set starts declining, and how much of the skills
that the other guys bring actually make up for that. So in a sense,
it does make me feel better because there's still a bunch of young guys
on this team. In another sense, one of the best players on the
team is still really old. So I have this dueling mindset about it.
I guess, yeah, there's certainly a lot of variability to it. I
feel good though, even knowing that that kind of Chris Paul Pin drop could
come at any time. But we'll see, we can't control it's gonna embrace
the chaos. I'll throw this one to you, Sab to start. Where'd
you are there any impressions that you have from their off season that you say
about hanging to the regular season where you you know, we talk and we're
going to get into their actual guys, where the continuity will help this team
a ton. You still have very important players on this team that are going
to get better, and so that's sort of how you get the leg up.
But would you have liked to have seen a little bit more of an
aggressive offseason from them when you're looking at making additions to the roster, or
do you fall on the camp of, you know, well, who else
were they getting and what were they supposed to do? Yeah, the reason
I was kind of laughing at the beginning there is because I've I've heard your
thoughts Dan on our off season, and so I basically echoed those one hundred
percent what you had previously said on the podcast. I think the Suns had
a good offseason. I think they addressed obvious areas of need. I applaud
them for the Chris Paul and campaign extensions, primarily because I think those are
just both great values. JaVale McGee obvious area of need with defense and rebounding
Landry Shammont. You can never have enough shooters. But but yeah, I
kind of feel like they didn't go far enough, especially when you consider the
resources that were on the table, not using the full mid level exception,
not using the biennial exception when you could have just basic things, but you
know, not even really trying to make an attempt at replacing a guy like
Tory Craig. A lot of Suns fans will tell me, well, you
know, it's Tory Craig. You played fifteen minutes per game. He's a
ninth or tenth man. It's not really that big of a deal. They
may very well be right, and I do certainly believe that the Suns are
a very, very very good team. I believe they're a top two team
in the Western Conference going into this season in terms of talent. But there
is that nagging feeling that they really could have done more. You look at
the rest of the Western Conference, and what the Lakers are doing is really
a risk. It's a huge risk, and every other team didn't even try.
I mean, you know, you look at the Jeff Green signing for
Denver, Rudy Gay for Utah, and it's like that Larry Nance is one
that I actually like for Portland. But it's like, these are all kind
of minor moves on the margins if we really think about it. And so
there is that temptation to say, Phoenix, you were just in the finals,
why didn't you try and push a little bit harder? And yeah,
it's definitely something I think about a lot. I'm still satisfied with the offseason,
but they definitely could have done more. It's my opinion your thoughts fall
on that. Mike Well, I think I have sort of mixed feelings about
this as well, because part of me feels like one of the biggest issues
for the Phoenix Suns was that they didn't have a clear cut third best player,
and like if they were overly aggressive, basically, if they didn't buy
into any sort of hype in the trip to the finals and made a massive
move like put other guys on the trade market outside of Devin Booker and Chris
Paul to try and find that third best player, whether that be Mchaelbridges or
DeAndre and I wouldn't have been overly angry about that. I guess in a
sense, I do buy into the finals. I do buy into that run.
I think they're an excellent team, and I think there'll be an excellent
team going into next year regardless of any changes that they make. But at
the same time, if they had done something major to try and bring some
sort of third star to the team, I would not have been mad about
it. So in general, during the offseason, I tend to have like
these overly aggressive thoughts about getting star players. So that's usually where I stand,
and that's how you get yourself in trouble too. Yeah, I mean,
yeah, we cover one team, right, So when we cover one
team, if I start talking about trading players that just made it to the
NBA Finals, people do tend to get a little angry about that. So
I have to find ways to talk about it without upsetting people. But like
I aggregators, get ready, I think a lot of what the Sun's a
lot of what the Suns are relying on right now is no Kawhi Leonard,
no Jamal Murray, the Lakers being old, and that's like all of those
things together, I think are what sort of combined to make the Suns one
of the favorites in the Western Conference in this coming season, which is fine
and fair, but like there is a scenario where Kawhi Leonard is fully healthy,
where Jamal Murray is fully healthy, where the Lakers don't get injured in
the playoffs, where in those scenarios I would have probably wished that the Suns
have made a b I moved to bring in some sort of start. Now.
Of course, trades are all speculative and who knows who's available or whatever
it all is. But I am overall happy with the offseason, and I
think they're going to be an excellent team going forward. I just would not
have been mad had they done something more aggressive that may have pissed off a
lot of Suns friends. To be honest, yeah, I think and even
just something is simple of spending your entire l entire MLI would have been like
a show of good faith. But I'm gonna agreement basically with both what you
guys said. I think also what made me feel better about the off season
to this point is if you had agreed to extensions with DeAndre Ayton Michael Bridges.
And I'm just curious as to you know, the Wired take on this,
and it shouldn't be with Michael Bridges because I know people, for some
reason, DeAndre Ayton is viewed as the max contract lock and not Michael Bridges.
If both if both these guys get the restricted free agency, or if
either of them gets there, barring anything like a catastrophe this year, they're
they're getting max offer sheets. I'm just like, why is this turning out
to be such a complicated thing? And the Wired take would be you don't
want to extend either of them in case you want to make that bigger swing
on the trade market this season because they've become so hard to deal, and
that's yeah, Yeah, I don't know that I've heard anyone say that Michael
Bridges is definitely going to get a max offer sheet in the restricted free agency.
So, first of all, I appreciate that you say that, Dan,
and I think it's definitely possible depending on what he does. And the
Sons have really been talking up McAll Bridges as a third option on offense this
season, So if he starts to up his overall possessions that he's actually taking
shots and creating for himself and for others, I could definitely see that happening.
But yeah, I think that that's definitely something that they're taking into consideration.
Dan, I do wonder if, like, are they better trade assets
without being extended? Is that how you're looking at it, Because I do
wonder if even just extending them now, whether that be during this season or
in the off season next year, if that extension actually help the Suns as
far as if they consider trading those guys going forward, because in my opinion,
you just got to lock those guys up right now and worry about the
rest later because I still think they're going to be tradeable on extensions. Yeah,
I mean long term, I would rather you know, Mihail Bridges or
Deandreton is going to be more valuable with extra years on their deal. But
this season specifically, if you sign your extension by the deadline, like the
average annual salary and the poison pill comes into play, and you're essentially saying,
if we make a move, it's not going to involve one of these
two. And I don't know if the front office would be thinking along those
lines, but you don't know how the outside star trade market might develop this
year. And if you really are you guys mentioned both of you mentioned at
the top, if you really are thinking about the urgency of this team because
of the age of Chris Paul, I don't know if that goes into the
calculus at all. I just found it curious that, you know, were
this late into the offseason and like neither one of them has signed extension,
Like we haven't even started dealing with public facing concrete numbers for either of them,
and most people just assume that DeAndre Aton is going to get the max.
So there's that, and I would be firmly of the belief that if
Bridges does h RFA, I know, there's not a ton of teams with
cap space, but if he does anything more on the ball, or even
if he's just the same player that he is this year, that is the
archetype that teams well, someone is giving him a max McHale is I'd have
to look a ut. Michael is like twenty five years old already. If
if he does exactly the same, then the figure that I've heard people throw
out is like four four slash one hundred, maybe four slash nineties, stuff
like that. But if he makes the leap, I'm expecting to him too.
On the ball, Absolutely, I agree with you, Dan, he's
a max contract guy. If he could get up to like seventeen eighteen points
per game, which I think is totally feasible, we can talk about it
more later. Then he can hit that figure no problem. And so both
guys go into the extension. Both guys go into these negotiations frankly, with
a lot of leverage, way more leveraged than the average than the average third
or fourth year player. Yeah, and I wonder how much agents sort of
look at the landscape of free agency in general, where all these stars are
just signing extensions now and not a lot of them are going to be available
for free agency, and DeAndre and Michel Bridges could be two of the best
free agents available if they were to hit restricted free agencies, you know,
and the Sun still you know, as far as leverage goes, the Sun
still own their restricted free agency rights, so they could match anything that they're
offered at that point, but it could be a lot. You're definitely right
about that, Dan, and I'm more of a fan, especially if you're
not trying to prioritize cat flexibility, like build up the good will with the
players, because all you're gonna have to do is just match the offer that
you're not giving them now. Essentially, today, let's talk about that Michael
Bridges leap though, Sam, What is it you already mentioned sort of the
off the dribble jumper and the numbers, like he sort of increased his volume
there over the past few years. What does that actual leap in full look
like for Michael Bridges? Is it just sort of holding that down And do
you think he's going to get the opportunity to do that on this team?
I absolutely think he's going to get the opportunity to do that on this team
if you were paying attention to training camp both. Monty Williams, when asked
about it, said he used the term third option talking about mchaal Bridges.
He said, we believe that this guy could be our third option. Not
paraphrasing here because I don't remember the exact quote anymore, but he said he
wanted to find more opportunities for him to play that role within the scope of
the Sun's offense, simply because he understands, like you know, some Suns
fans look at that they maybe take offense if they're big. DeAndre Atan stands,
but we understand it's talking about perimeter initiation of sets and McHale Bridge is
much more comfortable with the ball in his hands than any other potential third option
on the Sun's team. I guess campaign dribbles the ball, but he doesn't
really fit the bill for what we're talking about of being a starting level talent.
And then Chris Paul, also coming out of training camp, was asked
who's the guy who you think has added the most to his game over the
summer, and he immediately answered mcaal Bridges. So for us, it's like
we looked at the stats. McHale is incredibly efficient on the ball in limited
volume, and he's incredibly efficient off the ball. The only thing that he
has ever had to do is add the volume, and obviously maybe the efficiency
will go down, but he just needs to add the reps. I'm very
confident they're going to add the reps this year. I know it's just preseason,
but in their preseason game against the Lakers the other day, Devin Booker
was out and who took the most shots? Who was Michael Bridges took like
eighteen shots in like twenty five minutes, something I've never seen him do before.
They were running him in their usual elbow sets, trying to get him
to come around screen set at the elbow in the way that they typically do
for Devin Booker for Devin Booker to get his mid range shot off. They
were starting to do that for Michael Bridges. And again, it's not like
he's going to dominate the offense all of a sudden. I don't think he's
gonna be a twenty plus point per game guy with the amount of touch is
going to Chris Paul or Booker. But I think we're going to see Eli,
I really do. As far as third options go, whoever can catch
the ball twenty feet away from the basket and dribble either towards the basket or
in a way that creates a shot for other people, whether that be DeAndre
and or Michael Bridges, that's going to be the third option for the Suns
at this point because they just need one other guy who can do that.
So it's it's just whoever wants to do that. I think that there we
have seen more of Michael Bridges doing that than DeAndre, and so there's you
know, reason to believe that it could be Michael Bridges as far as that
goes, because it's just if DeAndre needs the ball close to the basket in
order to score, that's a good skill to have and he's probably one of
the best in the league at that, but it's just harder to get the
ball there and you need someone like McAll Bridges, of course Chris Paul or
Devin Booker to get it to him. So it's just up to them.
As far as Michael Bridges goes, I don't know that people listening to this
this podcast are aware of how efficient he was. He was one of the
most efficient wings in the NBA last season, you know, only thirteen point
five points per game, so how scalable that is is going to be important.
But like he's able to make mid range shots, he's one of the
most effective players in transition. He shoots over forty percent from three, and
you know it's hard to block a shot because he's tall and his arms are
extremely long. So you put that all that together, it's an extremely good
package for a wing player to have. I think for him now and even
Aten, I think it's about confidence and a willingness to embrace contact because Michel
doesn't really go at the rim when he's being guarded. He's not embracing contact
the way Devin Booker does. Really on the Suns, there's two guys that
do it. It's Devin Booker and it's Abdul Nator. So if it can
be mckel, Bridges or DeAndre and whichever one of those guys, that would
be huge for the Suns. And I think for him, if he can
get to the line more by embracing that contact at the rim and understanding that
he has that first step, especially from the corner, that would help him
out a lot and help the suns out a lot, so this past year
he took a little over ninety off the dribble jumpers if my numbers are correct.
If I set the over under at one twenty five, Mike, are
you taking the over the under on that for him this season? I would
definitely take the over. Just I know that guessing based on three season games
is dangerous, but it just looks like something that he's become more comfortable doing.
And even if we sort of plotted those out over the course of last
season, I have a feeling they'll started peeking towards the end of the season
as well. It's just something that he's been working on a lot. Now.
Don't expect a bunch of pull up three pointers, even though he well
on them, nine or fourteen on them last year. He shoots really well
on them. He does, like, you know, one every week,
but he actually historically a shot really well on them. I'm not kidding.
But for him, what it often comes down to is because he's the third
option, the ball swings to him in the corner, a closeout is slightly
laid or a little off balance, and he attacks the clothes out. He
gets two steps into the under the three point line and he's from mid range.
The clothes out is late and he shoots a mid range jumper. I
think he's going to do that more and more and more, and so I
expect that to be over. Did I not say the over under high enough?
Sam? Would you smash the over on this as well? I'm smashing
the over If you set the over under at one hundred and eighty, so
he literally doubles it, I might still take the over. That might be
a little a little more risky, but we'll see. My first inclination was
to go one fifty, and I thought this was going to be an instance
last season where I was like higher on the suns than you guys. I
was like, I need to lower this number a little bit just to make
it more realistic. But I would take over one fifty for him easily.
And I like the idea of him as the third option whatever you want to
call up, because I there's a more nuanced decision maker on the ball to
me than there is with a DeAndre eight. And I also think that mcil
bridge's archetype is just better suited right now to being a third option. Yeah,
there was. I think he can be if if he's gonna, you
know, attack close outs or open lanes. I think he's someone that has
at least shown, maybe not a ton last season, but at least like
over over his career, that he can drop some nifty passes in those situations.
I did have someone of my mentions the other day because I was watching
I don't even rember who they were playing, but Camp Johnson hit like a
behind the back dribble step back jumper lane. Someone was in my mentions and
just said, like, that's why he's going to be the third option over
Michael Bridges. There are Suns fans who believe that this new standard for like,
did I was Cam Johnson hitting a bunch of these shots last year?
And I will no, no, But this is the crazy thing about Cam
Johnson. So Cam is much flashier in his best highlight reel, the best
highlight reel like that. If you compiled all of Cam's what is it,
two seasons now with the Suns into just like the best two or three minutes
and found the most juicy, tantalizing clips, he looks like a much better
player than McHale Bridges. He does because he has these flashes of brilliance.
But then you look at his stat line and you see, okay, statistically
nine points three rebounds of steel or a block, you know, slightly above
league average efficiency. He's not doing it on the nightly basis. But he'll
have step back threes, which McHale doesn't give us. He'll have flashy poster
dunks, which McHale doesn't give us, And I think just holding onto those
moments alone gives some Suns fans a semblance of hope that Cam Johnson really has
that higher potential. Personally, I don't see it. I think Cam's a
really good player and I think he will continue to improve for the Suns as
well. I don't see the same ceiling in him as I do with Michal.
Yeah, I think there's been a few of these really remarkable looking,
sort of behind the back step backs by Cameron Johnson that make his handles look
better than they are, and I think and maybe they are because, like
I think, Cam Johnsons ran like five pick and rolls for the Suns.
Ever, so it's difficult to really evaluate what he can be as far as
creation on the ball. Right now, we're just asking him to finish,
whether that be catching and shooting or catching it just going to the rim and
dunking on guys, which is the biggest surprise about Cameron Johnson, but we've
seen a lot more of it from mcaal Bridges, and just like Sam said,
not as flashy. But I also think there's an element of Cam Johnson
played better in the playoffs than he played in the regular season, and mcaal
Bridges on offense arguably played worse than the playoffs than he did in the regular
season. So I think there's sort of a lasting memory for some Suns fans
that stuck in their mind. And and I don't know that that's that's fair
to mcil Bridges or even Cameron Johnson to expect him to be better. I
do think that I wonder how many of those people realize how much more efficient
mcail Bridges was than Cameron Johnson last season, because it's just he does it
so almost invisibly that maybe people don't don't really connect with that as much.
Mcale Bridges was a more efficient midrange shooter last season than either Chris Paul or
Devin Booker, and obviously he's doing it on like a fifth of the volume.
He only maybe took fifty of those shots all season. But yeah,
I think a lot of Suns fans even don't don't realize that he was also
better from three point than Cameron Johnson, who was drafted as quote unquote the
best shooter of the draft. He's I mean, you look, you look
at every facet of scoring for McHale and he just needs the volume. He's
in the like ninetieth plus percentile and everything, every spot on the floor.
Yeah, you guys write a bunch of the numbers off in the internal development
episode and it was like an assing trip, just like hearing it. Yeah,
reiterated for so I'm all from McCall Bridges getting the bigger roles. Can
ask you dan sorry before we move on ahead. We just did. We
just did an over under episode on our podcast. We do it every year
where I just make up fake over under numbers and then we bet, we
make bets on them, basically for the end of the season. And I
set the over under from Michael Bridges points per game at fifteen point eight at
thirteen point five. Would you just hit that over right away? We all
did over for the record. Yeah, I would have went over as well.
I mean I might just be there are I feel like as of right
now, in large part because of maybe you guys are over the pasture.
I have a lot of people on some Twitter that seems to like me because
I was very high on this team. So if I'm ever lower on them
than the consensus, god help me. But like Micael Bridges is just I'm
addicted to Michael Bridges. I think he is still I thought he should have
been, Like this is someone who I think is already an All defensive player
and just hasn't recognized for it yet. And the fact there's still more to
plumb on offense like that endlessly tantalizes me. And so the fact that even
I think it was Mike said on this like you haven't been hearing that people
just I think he's gonna get a max deal if he hits RFA. That
boggles my mind when you like, like, are people just basing this off
of what you know o gianna Obi got, because like so that's just a
terrible comparison because Oganaobe is just wildly underpaid right now right point, maybe I'm
too high on mcaal Bridges, but I'm not like this seems like someone especially
if they're gonna give him a little bit more influence over the offense, and
even if they don't. And one of my questions on here is like do
we expect to see Chris Paul has missed I think four regular season games over
the past two years. Like, if there's more of a maintenance program in
place for him, that's going to be more opportunity for Bridges. And I
feel like the Sun's offense is also built to I don't want to use the
word cater too, but feature of Michael Bridges over a DeAndre Ayton, if
we're gonna start expanding roles. And then even just because I mentioned before,
I just trust Mchael Bridges as are more variance in his decision making with the
ball. I would be shocked if this is something we're gonna look at and
see Cam Johnson's on ball volume just go through the roofs too. Yeah,
I wouldn't expect that. I just think that's the biggest that's the biggest challenge
for for Monty Williams this entire season. It's just balancing the development and the
possessions and who they go to. And look, you mentioned the prospect of
Chris Paul maintenance, and he just doesn't seem to do that, So I
think that makes it even harder. And I think even and we talked about
it on our most recent episode two. That's that's posted Monday, but people
will hear us talk about it as well. It's I think it's going to
be a challenge for Monty Williams to even convince Chris Paul to want to do
that. Chris Paul, it's all about mindset. He just talked about it
recently, where he thinks you treat every single game the same, and if
you don't treat every single game the same, then it's hard to take that
mindset into the playoffs with you. So you know, that's why Chris paul
teams tend to win more regular season games, that's he treats those like playoff
games in his mind, and then he takes that into the playoffs, and
it's hard to convince him to do something that he just doesn't seem to want
to do. Not to mention how proud he is of how well he takes
care of his body, the fact that he's fully plant based right now,
and I think he's just really proud of being a guy who continually plays games
late into his career. There's maybe like the partial guarantee on the third year
of his deal and then the non guarantee in the fourth year maybe make him,
you know, think longer term a little bit more. I hope.
So I really don't know. It's really tough to get into his mind,
but I hope. So those are really uncharted waters if we're talking about that,
like the viability of him at age thirty nine forty still trying to get
another contract. Yeah, I mean that, but just I'm like, after
people thinking that Chris Paul was added for this year drop off, and then
he credits his diet and Mike mentioned it like he's silly plant based now,
like he said, he he went that route and his body, like the
inflammation went down, it was easier for him to recover. I'm just gonna
I've reached the point of, yeah, I probably expect him to break down
a little bit later in the season, but I've reached the point of I
will believe he's done when I actually see it, Like the Lebron thing that
refrained that I'll just deliver. Yeah, I have I googled plant based diets
a few times every time he has a good game. Yeah, I do
it every time. I'm still not there yet, but he's definitely making a
convincing argument. Yeah. I mean, if I could do anything as well
at that age as he's doing it, maybe I would consider that too.
To sort of wrap up on Camp Johnson really quickly jump around this out line,
Sam, Where's like the biggest opportunity for a Cam Johnson improvement? Is
it just him maybe playing more minutes. It's this weird situation because he's twenty
five turns twenty six in March, Like, this is someone who's older than
Devin Booker, and yet it still seems like he's been just surprisingly good in
each of his seasons, in part because it's like, well, people didn't
expect him to be good. They thought that pick was was a reach,
and so I'm curious what a better version of Cam Johnson looks like for this
team. So, going back to what I was talking about where the Suns
didn't really try to replace Tory Craig gets me thinking about maybe that's the answer
there to what they're thinking of doing with Cam Johnson. I know it's corny
to bring up a Muscle Watch update, but at least Cam told us,
or he told reporters who are actually there in training camp, that he's up
to two twenty now. I think he came into the league closer to round
two oh five, maybe two ten. And you know, if you think
about a Jay crowd, McHale Bridge is already playing thirty six minutes a game
roughly, So to lose Tory Craig's fifteen minutes, you only have a few
ways to fill that. Either Cam Johnson starts logging a lot more time and
he has to log more of that time at the four where he's played at
the four before plenty, but he's also played a lot of three. Or
your other options are introduced a guy like abdul Nader or Jalen Smith into the
rotation, and they very well may be interested in doing that as well.
I have a feeling we'll touch on that later, but there's definitely opportunity for
Cam to lot more minutes, and for him it's just about being stronger.
He's shown an impressive ability I think to be switchable and keep the Sun's defensive
scheme consistent. Go you know, switch out onto guys at positions one through
four, onto the perimeter and isolation situations, which is really good to see.
Maybe now it's about getting a little bit stronger doing kind of some of
the other things that Jay Crowder can do from a help defense perspective, from
a screen navigation perspective on defense, and really giving more faith in Monty that
he can play the four more consistently. One thing Mike and I have gone
back and forth on is, you know, is there a point this season
at which Cam Johnson earns the starting power forward spot outright? And I think
both of us have said we're torn on it, but but but both of
us have said, at least at this point, it's probably unlikely, but
it's certainly possible. There is that possibility. So yeah, I think for
Cam it's just, you know, he's supposedly stronger, and we'll see to
what extent that can actually raise his ceiling as an overall team player. Yeah,
And now I was just going to mention that the numbers with Cameron Johnson
with the starters are are really good, and they're actually better than the numbers
with Jay Crowder and the starters. But the difference is like a four hundred
minute difference, and then the aunt of minutes played with Jay Crowder in the
Stars compared to Cameron Johnson. So I don't know how much you can read
into that, but yeah, I think his ability to defend the guys that
Jake Crowder defense, I don't know, He'll never get to what Jake Crowder
is doing. So it's just about making up the difference in other ways,
whether that beyond the ball or like, as much as we talk about him
as a shooter, you know, he's not Duncan Robinson. Maybe he's Duncan
Robinson last year, but he's not done Duncan Robinson the year before. You
know, if he can get up to like forty five percent on his three
point shots, there's something insane like that on a high number of attempts,
then obviously I think that would make a big difference for him as well.
Yeah, and I know, look, still shooting has to be his calling
card. I've been and I'm I don't know if I'm pleasantly surprised. I'm
definitely surprised with the confidence that he has had in sort of like the pull
up mid ranger. Even though it's not a huge part of his game and
it wasn't super efficient, he took more of those just throughout his career so
far than I ever would have expected. His defense has been the most pleasantly
surprising aspect of his career to me, and you guys already mentioned you don't
whether he can handle like the same individual assignments as Jay Crowder, but as
someone who works within the team dynamic, you can count on him to be
in the right spots, make the right decisions, not make these stupid fouls
a ton of the time. There's there's super value in that, And I
guess if he's gonna get stronger and like not sacrifice really any speed or decision
making, maybe it's not as I would immediately just say, you know,
just keep Crowder in the starting lineup, because it feels like he's a better
individual defender. And while starting doesn't matter, like you do inherently tend to
play more minutes if you're in the starting lineup. But when you sort of
view it through that lens that you guys are describing it, it's actually not
that it wouldn't be upsurd to again with, but it definitely seems there's a
stronger argument. I guess who starting Cam Johnson down the line, I mean,
technically, Jake Crowder was a better three point shooter than Cameron Johnson last
year. How weird is that he did at least go off in the playoffs
when he shoot like forty four point six percent from three good point he was
there were moments in the playoffs for Camon Johnson was keeping the offense alive,
and you know, like I talked about the long lasting effect of the playoffs
on the fans minds, I think that's the main reason that a lot of
people are really high on him, and rightfully so, Mike, did anyone
get to the bottom of the DeAndre eight and comments where I was it a
joke? But where he just said like I've mastered the roles that I don't
like, essentially, Like, what the hell was that? No, it's
not a joke. I'll tell you that right away. It's definitely not a
joke. And it's not, you know, uncommon to hear from big men
as well. I think, you know, Anthony Davis has said it.
There have been times that you know, even Dwight Howard has said something like
that. I think that Deandret believes that there's more to his game than what
he was doing last year, and it's up to him to prove it at
this point, and I like, you know, the fact that he's saying
it out loud and to the press, like technically he's saying it to the
press, right, I think is something that he is putting pressure on himself
to now prove it now. Whether or not I believe that there's more to
it, I think it's a possibility. But the one part I think that
worries me about it because I'm sort of conflicted because I want him to develop
more of a diverse offensive game in particular. But the one part that worries
me about it is that he's really, really, really really good at the
big man's stuff. So I still want him to be able to embrace the
stuff that he's really good at will also expanding his game, and I think
that's the challenge for him. But look, he said it before. Actually
it's funny. In his Players Tribune article that he wrote, he talked about
how he doesn't even like to be referred to as a big or big man
or big fellow or anything like that. He wants to he wants to be
less limited in his roles, and he even mentioned that in practice, when
they're separating guys into like bigs, wings and guards, mckel Bridges and Javon
Carter would go up to him and say, hey, where do you want
to go if you want to do wanted? I don't know. I'm not
sure where to put you don't want to be a big right, So I
think it's it's something that he's talked about before. And I do think that
the way that he said it in this particular interview was I did it essentially
comes down to I did what you asked me to do last year. Yeah,
there's like in brackets. He didn't say it out loud, pay me
like, that's there, brackets like he didn't say bracket on all caps,
bracket right there. Yes, yeah, and then and then I think the
also the other subtext of that is let me do more. I believe I
can do more, and we'll see if he can. There's and you actually
alluded to this is there is a tendency to think if it's I don't want
to say a traditional big man, but let's say a non star or non
like offensive superstar big man, there is this theory that you could approximate seventy
five percent of what they do for a lot cheaper than maybe someone like Deandre's
asking for I don't feel that way in this case because of the strides he
made have just made defensively over the past few years, and just looking at
how good he was for them at points in the playoffs and the like,
the guys that he was going up against and just holding his own I see
like the pathway to him being great on that side of the floor. I'm
just curious as to what you guys think is the pathway. And I'll throw
this to you, Sam of is it him just doing more of the same
stuff on offense to being a lot better or is there actually room on this
team for him to probably indulge some of the stylistic leanings that he's just inferring
about when he says things like I can do more, I don't necessarily want
to play the big man role. Yeah, well, again, it's all
in his own mind. I think if he's going to keep playing the same
way that he does, then there is an offensive ceiling there that's very obvious.
It's, you know, he can only do so much. And as
Mike was saying, the level that Deandre's already at of being like a sixty
five sixty six percent true shooting guys. It's tough thinking about his development,
both in the way that makes the most sense for DeAndre Atan to be the
best player possible, but also makes sense for the Suns to be the best
team possible that can really compete for a championship this year, because it's like,
you're not gonna get better success out of the offense by running more DeAndre
pot Eton postops, You're just not He could score decently well on them,
but you know, maybe he could get to twenty points per game, but
the offense isn't going to be better. Similarly, DeAndre couldn't prove as a
shooter, but why would you want him, you know, shooting thirty one
thirty two percent from deep on a few attempts per game when you can just
have him at the rim and get a few values instead. Right, So
better for Aton's development if he were to become a shooter, and we kind
of still certainly hope he can not better for the Suns. I think the
one thing that kind of scratches the itch on offensive. This is both critical
for DeAndre to prove that he's a Max contract value offensively and would make the
Suns a heck of a lot better because it makes him more versatile, is
his attacking and playmaking out of the short role, because like ten times a
game, DeAndre will be situated at that elbow spot and you can tell he's
not really comfortable in his handles to put the ball on the floor in attack,
so he needs to wait for a guard, be it Chris, Paul,
Devin Booker, whoever to come around, accept the handoff, reset the
offense, and do it again. If he can get used to just catching
the ball in stride, putting the ball on the floor one dribble strong to
the basket, or find an open passing lane to a corner shooter or a
cutter, that unlocks a hell of a lot in Deandre's game. It could
make his individual stats better. It makes him more you know, appealing,
maybe if he's thinking about his own contract. But it also makes the Suns
a much more dynamic offensive if he can unlock that too. I just want
to just hit on something else that you said that just to really highlight this,
there's this conversation about how DeAndre and is used that some people think that
especially fans of him in college, that he's being used incorrectly on the Suns,
And to some small extent, I think you can make the case that
if he was like on a bad team, he would be used differently because
you would be experimenting more. But there are ways for him to take advantage
of what the Suns did last season offensively like and do different things without the
Sun's changing their playbook at all. Now, Sam, you mentioned the short
rule, like that happens a lot. The Suns get trapped. You know,
Devin Booker gets trapped a lot more than Chris Paul. But Devin Booker
gets trapped a lot. That leaves DeAndre in sort of in no man's land.
He has the ability to do different things there if he's confident enough to
do them. There's also the dhos. When he's doing those dhos. Now
he can turn and dribble towards the basket if he wants every single time,
or when he catches the ball in that mid range area. And this is
the one case I think you could make that it's a Monty Williams thing.
He could just turn and shoot. They would prefer him to take two dribbles
towards the basket and embrace that contact at the basket. But if he's good
enough to shoot. I think they would allow him to shoot there. So
some part of this is a Monty Williams conversation, but I think that we
should also acknowledge that part of it is a DeAndrea in conversation as well,
because it's up to him to take advantage of those opportunities. This I didn't
include an the outline, but do you have a like an I'll throw to
you first, like an official prediction of what you think or even collectively between
you two, like what's going to happen for the extensions with McHale and DeAndre
and you expect want of them to sign them, and want to not both
of them to sign one, neither of them to sign one, where you
guys sort of add on that I'm terrified of just one of them signing,
And that's to be honest, just either way, whether that be Mchael Bridges
or DeAndre Aten. I do find it interesting that we have just heard about
the DeAndre Atan extension, like that's to me, that's very much proof that
it's entirely agent based and it's just trying to gain leverage on the Suns,
And I guess to some extent it makes me feel better that we haven't heard
anything about Michal Bridges because maybe they have a deal done. They're just trying
to get them both done at the same time so they can announce them together.
But I think that if I were to lean one direction, I would
lean towards I think they both get signed. I think we get Michael for
something like four ninety or four ninety five or something like that, and then
DeAndre and signs a MAX similar to Mike cord Juns is what I would guess.
If it's four for ninety from mcale, that deal wasn't already signed,
Like, how the Sun's get that done already, It's a steal. Well,
I think Michal's camp understandably knows that if there is that opportunity. Maybe
they didn't know coming out of the final exactly what it was going to look
like for McHale. They had a whole offseason ahead of them for the Suns
to see if they were going to try and acquire any more talent. Now
that they know McHale's being hyped up as the third option, why would you
accept four ninety when you're thinking a sixteen, seventeen, eighteen point per game
campaign. From the guy, you'll be able to get four one hundred and
ten if you wait. So it's it's a risk, as is anything with
these negotiations, but you know they have leverage for sure. For the record,
Michael Bridges has not missed a game since middle school. Yeah since what
since the middle This is true, He has not missed a game since middle
school. He was sick once and like he was sick once and he wanted
to play in his and his parents made him stay home, and then he
was mad he missed the game. That was the only game he's missed basically
since since he was a child. That something that I should have heard of
already. Yeah, it's a thing. They even at one time they were
arresting the starters and they checked him in for just like three minutes and checked
him out because he didn't want to miss his streak. That is incredible.
Like I said, look, if if I'm Michael Bridges and I get why
you wouldn't do this, I'm one hundred percent not signing anything other than than
a max extension. I clearly have maybe too much faith in Michael Bridges at
that point. Then I think there's a sign of how much progress the Suns
have made is that we organically had this podcast conversation for X amount of minutes
thirty something minutes, and Devin Booker hasn't really come up. That's a great
point. Our times have changed. I don't necessarily like having this discussion,
but it because I just have agendas left and right. Apparently it irked to
me at how many people just assumed that Chris Paul was Phoenix's most valuable player
last year. And I know that we've actually had this discussion in the past.
I know you guys have talked about it on the Timeline podcasts in the
past. I'm just I'm asking you to scold the national media once more.
Is what makes not even long term because that's obvious, but what makes Booker
like immediately the most valuable player to this team. I just think he draws
so much attention, and that's that's like the most important thing. That's one
of those things that you might not see on the statutes. He's also one
of the only players we talked about it that that actually puts rim pressure,
like actual pressure on the rim on this entire team. Chris Paul is not
doing that anymore, and you need him to do that kind of thing.
But the conversation about Devin Booker is has always been a disaster on the internet.
It's become such a disaster and now even more like post finals, Like
I'm sort of understanding the way that other fans of other teams have felt after
they lose the finals. If you look at sort of anything from ESPN or
Leacher Report that talks about the Suns, you look at the comments of that,
now it's like attack, you really went there. I mean, it's
true, because it's the point is it's it's more of an audience than just
the Suns fans that you and I interact with Sam and you see how they
talk about and in the blame that somebody like Devin Booker gets And I just
think he's he's always been underrated and it's bizarre that you would think that it
would have ended now, right, he would think that now they made the
finals. Look, he had back to back forty plus point games in the
NBA Finals. He had a forty plus point triple double without Chris Paul.
In the Western Conference Finals. He had eight threes against the reigning champions Los
Angeles Lakers on their floor in order to eliminate them eight of ten over forty
points against that team. You'd think that people would now that was not talked
about enough. Yeah, he broke his nose, he had a hamstring injury
in the NBA finals. Like, and look, people can have whatever opinions
they want about him, but it's become bizarre how much people are willing to
just dislike and discount the things that Devin Booker does. And to me,
if they're if they're the type of people that point at specific stats, it's
a problem with those stats more than it's a problem with Devin Booker himself.
You have to rely on what you see, and what you see is that
he's the most important player on the team. Clearly, watching the attention that
he draws what he does or when he just tacks has become like's it's incredible
to watch, especially with the past two seasons and last year specifically, he
was double teamed on a larger share of his possessions than Chris Paul was,
and on the possessions in which he was double teamed, the Sun's averaged one
point two points per those possessions, and that's like, I'm not a fan
of making these comparisons, but that would be the fourth most efficient offense in
the league. And so like the level of decision making that he has those
situations in general, and then just the attention he draws has really become incredible.
And you guys went really in depth on that Internal Development episode about his
game. I think the easiest thing to point too is what if his three
point shooting was a little bit higher, especially off the dribble? And I
will say he does have the jump shot form of someone that I just assume
if you didn't show me the percentages, I'd be like, that guy definitely
shoots like thirty eight from beyond the arc. I don't know if that's telltale
of anything, but what would what would make Devin Booker in all NBA shoeing?
Moving forward? Sam Man, And it's a combination of you mentioned the
off the drible shooting. I've mentioned the off the drible shooting a million times.
What a false friend that shooting form is that any of us so called
shot doctors online actually think we can pass through those things because I've been burned
a million times. What would make Devin Booker an All NBA shoeing Obviously if
the Sun's retains their ability as like a fifty five sixty win team. And
I think it's a combination of two things. One the off the drible shooting,
two being a little bit less predictable. We all know Devin Booker is
a great mid range shooter, but being a little bit less predictable where sometimes
he gets in trouble. Not with his passing vision. His passing vision is
quite good and his playmaking talent is amazing, but getting into trouble when he
gets into that mid range area when maybe he could just put a little bit
more traditional rim pressure on the rim pushed through the wall, so to speak,
and try to get more attempts because that's kind of where the loose handle
comes into play. Maybe he picks up some stupid turnovers that he shouldn't get
by virtue of kind of being predictable in that area of the court. So
I think a little more MPort pressure plus a little better off the dribble shooting
is maybe a thirty point per game campaign for Devin Booker. And if he
gets there, yeah, he's an all NBA issue. And as long as
the say I'm good, can you just can you just make the case for
also more touches, because I know you know the stats and i'll I'll just
I guess break it down. From my perspective, what could make him an
all NBA guard is more touches and just that I think so, I think
the thing. I think the thing is, uh, yes, more touches.
But you have to present a better argument for where those touches are coming
from. Wow, are they coming from Chris Paul? Because Chris Paul ran
a really good offense last year. I don't know if you noticed, Like
I don't, I don't want the conversation to become Yes, Devin Booker is
amazing, and this is why we're disrespecting Chris Paul and what he did for
the Suns. You know, I know, I don't think. I don't
think that the conversation has to come from that. But if you just make
the comparison from the fact that like Donovan Mitchell had fifty almost fifty percent more
touches than Devin Booker did last year, just on a per touch basis,
that stat alone is remarkable if you just from that perspective. For Dan's listeners
who don't know Devin Booker has led the NBA in the most points scored per
touch two seasons in a row, higher than guys that Kevin Durant, higher
than guys like Lebron, James, Kawhi, Leonard, you name it.
Most efficient player in the NBA on a per touch basis two years running.
And if you just increase those touches, this is the whole conversation about when
players sacrifice for good teams. If you just increase those touches, I think
more attention would come his way. It doesn't necessarily automatically make the team better,
because the best offenses are offenses that understand how to move the ball and
have the most good players capable of finishing at the end of those plays.
So it's not an automatic thing as far as making the team better. But
I think if he just did more in this offense, if they relied on
him more, that would bring more attention his way. I just don't know
that it would be great for the Suns. So my suggestion would be give
me more. Devin Booker as the day fact on point guard lineupsh just don't
happen. Last year, they he was technically the point guard for under twenty
possessions, and that feels like a way that could, like he said,
maybe giving him like more looks than that could technically hurt the Sun's offense.
But I'm at the point where it's like, if CP three is gonna be
off the floor anyway, you're really kind of only infringing upon certain campaign minutes
in those situations. So I would like to see more of that look,
and I think that would help him gain I don't necessarily think he needs He
don't don't need to make any material change. It's his game to be an
all NBA shoeing, But if you're talking about getting him more touches, that
sort of feels like a more organic way that you could up his volume.
Not to mention the more that Cam Johnson and mccaal Bridges especially are comfortable handling
the ball. Some of the issue we've seen with that in the past is
this idea of playing you know, rockets harden ball to an extent of just
you know, is Devin Booker really the level of playmaker where you want him
handling everything and then giving him a bunch of wings who, yes they're switchabole,
yes they hit threes, but they're afraid to put the ball on the
floor. It really doesn't feel like a very dynamic offense if you if you
put Devin Bookers the point guard, with Jay crowd or mccayal Bridges, Cam
Johnson around him, three switchable as hell wings who hit threes, and two
of the three of them are very comfortable putting the ball on the floor.
You're doing it in a way now that you're not setting them up to fail.
And maybe that wasn't always true in the past. So yeah, and
I think you're right, Dan, I would like to see it. The
Suns also have Landry Shammin Now. I mean it's true, it's not this
massive change as far as the off season goes, but like that is another
guy that's capable of playing off the ball with Devin Booker. But it also
should be said that Cameron Payne shoots like forty five percent on catch and shoot
threes, Like he's capable of playing off the ball with Devin Booker as well
and as the secondary playmaker, which did happen quite often in those lineups.
But I do think that the Suns can experiment with Devin Booker as the quote
unquote point guard without necessarily forcing him to play with just Cameron Johnson Mikailbridge,
Jay Crowder lineups like that they can still have another playmaker on the court,
whether that be Landry Shammitt, who obviously not a point guard but capable of
doing some things with the ball, or even still with Cameron Payne, who
is a great catch and shoot three point shooter, but also can still attack
if the closeout is late. So you know, I agree with you,
Dan that I think he can do more there, and look at the assist
numbers just that alone. They went down dramatically last year playing with Chris Paul
because he's sacrificed. That's really where it came from. I like to think
you guys like make segues for me. You mentioned Landry Shammit, if he's
like rookie year Landry Shammitt, like just the time he's down with the Sixers
are a little bit with the Clippers. There's definitely more of an intriguing player
there. But he's been passed around like like a bong at this point around
the NBA. What do you think about his fit? How do you think
he's going to be used with this team? How much do you expect him
to actually play? I'll throw that to Sam. I'm so bad. I
need to get better. It's fine. Yeah, we we just gotta we
gotta work through it. You know. I'll be honest, I think Landry
is like of ten to fifteen minute per game guy from the get go in
my opinion, if I had to put a number on it, just because
the amount that I think guys like Campaign and Cam Johnson primarily are going to
play off the bench, plus Devin Booker and Chris Paul obviously soaking up a
lot of minutes in the back court. But I'm very intrigued by the shooting,
particularly the movement shooting, and I think there is potential for Landry even
to play alongside Chris Paul and Devin Booker at the same time. That's something
that Chris Paul has also advocated for coming out of training camp. So yeah,
we'll see. I mean, you know, I have no reservations about
who Landry is as a shooter. I have some level of reservations about the
rest of the stuff that he does. Yeah, defense, especially right,
defense especially. Yeah, That's that's really what it comes down to. You
know, I know he was a point guard in college and that you know,
I know he can create for others. We haven't always seen it in
the NBA, but you know, it's it's not the attacking closeouts thing that
I think is so much of an issue with Landry, although his finishing numbers
aren't great, let's be honest, but yeah, it's definitely the defense thing
is how much can you really leave them on the floor in playoffs settings and
the regular season. I think it'll be fine. The one thing I'll say
is Monty Williams talks about Landry Shammitt like the Sun's traded for a ten time
All Star. He loves Landry Shammon. So I'm not exactly sure how much
lander Shammick could bring, especially once the Suns get to the playoffs, but
I have a feeling that he's going to be given a lot of opportunities,
especially early, because Monty Williams is just in love with him as a player,
and I think that will give him a pretty long lease to start out.
I think my question would be, is there anyone on this team that
Monty Williams just doesn't love as a player in person? I feel like I'm
want Monty Williams to being my life coach because he called JaVale McGee wacky yesterday
I think was I think he said he does some wacky things sometimes, but
he's still a professional, which I thought was almost an insult when it comes
to Monty Williams, that's like, Wow, that was really biting by Monty.
Look, Mike, you made a segue for me again. What do
you like or how do you feel about JaVale McGee the crowning acquisition of the
Phoenix Suns off season? What do you think with this team? I want
to just quickly say that I loved Dario Sharts last year, especially in the
first half of the season, and I think up data is like when you
really dig into like the dates of how like it was this huge crescendo and
then kind of just plummeted. It's one of the it's one of the great
unsolved mathematical mysteries twenty first century. I think, well, it happened as
soon as Sam and I made this like bid for him to be in the
sixth Man of the Year conversation, that's when he created. But having said
that, after that sort of crescendo that you talked about Dan, because he
was one of the best lineup guys in the NBA for the first half of
the season, which is when, by the way, the starters were not
clicking, so it was vital in order to keep the team afloat before they
clicked in February. Having said that, the Suns had a problem when DeAndre
and left the floor for this basically the second half of the season and the
playoffs, and that problem was defending the rim and giving up too many offensive
rebounds, and it was a massive problem, and it got worse and worse
and worse as the season went along. And that's credit to Deandret and how
good he is as a player, but it also pointed out a massive problem
with the Sun lineups. They you know, Frank Kaminski wasn't getting it done.
Dario starts for as much as he brought in other ways, was not
getting that done. So JaVale McGee solves what I think is that was the
one of the biggest problems in the Sun's lineups last year. And I'm just
very excited to watch him and just also from like a I am ultimately a
fan, and from a fan perspective, a center combination of DeAndrea and Frank
Kaminski and JaVale McGee has to be one of the funniest combinations of centers in
the NBA, because all three of those guys off the floor are incredibly goofy
guys and really funny, and just from a fan perspective, I'm excited for
the content that comes out of those three guys interacting off the court. Yeah,
Javale's YouTube channel, he hasn't really posted anything SUMS related, but I'm
definitely tracking it. What do you what is going to happen? Are they
gonna ditch with Dario sarch out especially Reamy at acl is like the sort of
the small ball look gone for them, et cetera. Or couldn't see them
getting wacky at some point this season? You know they had the When you
dig into the data, it wasn't great. I was very appreciative when I
was either running out but like having Tory Craig and Cam Johnson in your front
court at one point, I was very appreciative. Well, I was gonna
ask you, Dan, it depends on do you define Jalen Smith as as
a four or five? Because if he's a four, then then do we
count that as a small ball? Well, first I have to ask you
the question of her you as high on Jalen Smith as you were last year
when you set me a tweet of him putting a video of him putting the
ball on the floor like spinning. It was probably preseason or Summer league into
or it couldn't have been Summer league, like into a layup, and I
think you captured like can DeAndre and do this? It was just after we
reported podcast. So do you remain as high on Jalen Smith if you were
in that moment. Don't don't trap me like that. Man, Come on,
it's not fair. Do we expect Jalen Smith to play an actual role
with the team. He had some really no intriguing moments in summer League.
No, okay, fair enough, Well, I'm gonna say no. Like
I said earlier, the Tory Craig minutes are open, but that requires Jalen
to be a four, and I don't see it personally. I see him
as a five based on what we've seen so far. And yeah, Ayton
and Javail they've got those minutes locked up, and even if there's an injury
to one of them, Frank's gonna absorb those minutes too. So he's pretty
far down in the depth chart. We're approximately an hour into a podcast that
is not meant for entirely Suns fans. So I'm just gonna say it here.
Jalen Smith was really bad last season. Every time he was on the
court, he looked lost. The Suns forced him into a role that he
was clearly not comfortable with. And right now, if I were to guess
that he would have a major role on this team going forward, that would
be predicting a massive, massive, massive improvement for him. So I don't
know that I could do that. So, Mike, it sounds like the
answer this question, he was pretty easy. But how who has the bigger
impact on the rotation this year between Jalen Smith, Landry Shammon and adaal Later
which, by the way, that was like another That's why it was hard
to hate the Sun's offseason because what they did with their own eyes if you
love basic like that. I thought Nader was more valuable than they actually got
him for he Yeah, well, he missed two months last year than just
came back was defending his ass off like he didn't in the finals. Yeah,
I think that's interesting. I have a feeling Sam will say Nader,
so I'm gonna say Shammon. Because I think shamm It. I just think
shamm It brings an element of like above the break shooting that the Sun's kind
of struggled with last year, because really the best guy at that was probably
Chris Paul and then maybe Cameron Johnson. Yeah, Cameron, that's a great
point. Cameron Payne was probably the best edit. But as far as the
way that Monty Williams described Landry Shammon was a shorter Cameron Johnson, which I
think is a great way to describe him, and it just makes a lot
of senses offensively for the Suns. And I think, you know, we
were talking about on our over Under podcast as far as what will Landry Shammon
shoot, and I predicted probably less than forty percent from three, but only
because I think he will be in a place for the Sons where he's going
to be asked to take the most difficult threes of any player on the Suns,
and the Suns needed a guy that was sort of this sort of off
ball movement, pressure release valve type shooter, and I think that that's gonna
I know that Chris Paul likes playing with guys like that because he treated Devin
Booker like that for the first month and a half of the season, and
Devin Booker's not that, and I think he'll enjoy playing with somebody like Landry
Shammon, So I'm gonna see Shammon. Really. I don't think Monty Williams
would be wrong if he just started describing every shooter on this team in relation
to James Jones, because that's kind of what the strategy has always done.
Cam Johnson is tall James Jones, Landry Shammon is mini James Jones, Jalen
Smith in theory is super big James Jones. It's kind of what all of
them are among that group being Nader sam Well. I think Shammon actually,
there may be a chance that he logs more minutes, and he's certainly the
one who has gripped the most attention from people outside the Sun's sphere. I
don't really think anyone on the mainstream level still knows who Abdul Nader is.
But when we made that joke earlier, I think it was Mike who said
it, like Nader and Devin Booker being the only ones on this team to
put real rim pressure on the defense. It's true, and I think Nader
can can honestly earn a solid fifteen minutes per game of playing time just by
doing what he does, which is he's got one gear and that's just go.
He gets the ball, he attacks closeouts, he's reckless. It's not
always pretty, but it is relatively effective. So at the end of the
day, if that's what you need to do to get to the free throw
line, and you know, just just get to the rim, he'll he'll
learn some time for sure. This is I think it's low hanging fruit.
And this question is always match up dependent and I feel like there are only
two potential answers here. But Sam, what do you think should be Phoenixes
go to crunch Time lineup this season? Crunch Time lineup? I really feel
like it's your I really feel like your only choices are the traditional starting lineup
or the traditional starting lineup. But with Cam Johnson said Jake, Rob,
Yeah, this is such a boring question for the Sons. I think for
the Sons those are the only ones. And I, you know, yeah,
I don't know why, I mean actually want look, I would be
there would be my next questionink. They are a quirky, weirdo, unconventional
lineup. You would want to see them. There are a lot of those.
There are a lot of those. Yeah, that's kind of interesting.
I think that, you know, you made me think about this. How
many teams brought back their entire starting lineup. The Sons are one of the
teams that brought back their entire starting lineup. So I wonder how common I
think that's your que to tweet out continuity with a single letter tweet. Yeah,
I'm not sure. Maybe the Jets my brand. Yeah, probably the
Jazz. Anyway, I think that I've been begging, and look, I'm
not going to get too quirky with this, because I've been begging to see
more three guard lineup lineups for the Suns, and I personally would like to
see Cameron Payne, Chris Paul, and Devin Booker play more together. Now,
I think Chris Paul immediately asked for Shammon and Booker to play together.
I think he just envisioned it opening up cutting lanes for Devin Booker or Devin
Booker opening up three point shots for Landry Shammon on the sacrificial cuts. But
I still think Cameron Payne, Devin Booker, and Chris Paul need to play
more together early on in this season. They didn't do it basically at all.
In the playoffs. I wanted to see it against specifically the Clippers.
They didn't really go to it ever. So that's that's the main thing that
I would like to see. Now. The other two positions in that you
can play around with, but I think you need a big man to eat
up the rebounds in that scenario. But that's what I'd like to see more
three guard lineups. I've been writing to Monty and you know, he still
hasn't heard me out. But we'll see if he does. Regarding my Alfred
Peyton, Jalen Smith, Frank Cominski, JaVale McGee, DeAndre Aton lineup,
well, we'll see. Might how about five Alfred Peyton's Yeah, yeah,
all right, So let's spend like fifteen to twenty minutes unders the act of
Alfred Peyton on the Sun's rotation. If do you guys have any idea how
many possessions that three guard line Mike referenced played last season during the regular season.
Oh, I'll give you. I'm gonna give you seventy five possessions over
on Oh do you know the number? Yeah, I'm under guessing over it's
under I played thirty six possessions together. I thought it was gonna be like
slightly. I was gonna guess, like twenty what are the numbers, like,
do you have that in front of you? I bet that one twenty
seven point eight offensive ratings, which is really good. One fifteen point two
defensive rating, Yeah, which is bad, which is bad. But if
you've got the best offense twelve times that rating, it doesn't like you're out
scoring the other team. That's all that matters. Yeah, exactly, it's
the best offensive all time exactly. So my lineup that I and this is
the favorite, my favorite question I asked because I actually spend time thinking about
this ship because I have nothing better to do, apparently, and I don't
think Monty would ever roll it out. But if you could give me,
I'll call it the all wing lineup, even though that's not really what it
is, but just mcal Bridges, Jay Crowder, Devin Booker, Cam Johnson
and abdel Nader. I see, I just want to see what happens with
that lineup on the floor. And they did try. Like I said,
they had Cam Johnson and Tory Craig is like they're they're four or five at
one point last year, Like, just give me like thirty five possessions to
see that group. It doesn't have to be a once. I just want
to see it sprinkled in every now and again. You are a man of
culture, a man of positionless basketball, for sure. Well. Yeah,
I think the Sun struggled a lot with teams that played small ball. I
think that was the biggest threat to the Suns in the in the Western Conference
playoffs was the small ball lineups by the Clippers. You know, DeAndre and
played his ass off, But I'd like to see them sort of experiment with
ways to counter that with their own small ball group. Though. Yeah,
I agree with that. This the answer to this question, And I'll throw
this one to Sam because I'm remembering to throw it to someone this time.
It can change as the season goes on, obviously, But who do you
view right now? Is the player most likely to be traded from the deadline?
Is there if it's not a specific player, is there like another need
on this roster that you'd still ideally like to see them try and address via
the trade market? Man, I feel like I feel like Mike just tanked
Jalen Smith's trade value out in front of everyone like ten minutes ago. So
now I can't answer Jalen Smith. It would be nice like the idea behind
the Thaddius Young trade, which is what you know everyone was talking about with
the Suns maybe for the past three or four weeks or so at least in
theory, was Dario Sharitch for salary matching purposes plus Jalen Smith is an asset,
plus other assets, picks or whatever they want. I don't actually have
any reason to believe that the Spurs are interested in that, but that's kind
of the package that Suns were bands where we're building. I would but a
lot of things could happen. A lot of things could happen. But ultimately,
if you pressed me to it right now, I would say, I
think the Suns are only looking at minor tweaks, and so that means minor
tweaks in terms of more playmaking, initiation, more rim pressure, you know,
kind of something. If Shammant doesn't turn out to be enough, maybe
you look at is there another backcourt option that you could kind of pivot to
to give you some of that defense rebounding. I think they're set I think
they really set themselves up nicely with ch Avail, So I can't think of
I can't think of anything else. I mean, Fad Young would have been
nice because he would have kind of given you that versatility of he just does
a little bit of everything. He gives you a small ball outlet to kind
of replace what a charge did. And he's a terrific high post playmaker as
well, so he really plays the charge role except much better. But I
don't really see any other options like him out on the market, so yeah,
I think we're looking at minor tweaks. Yeah, I would like the
Suns to get someone like Tory Craig completely for free again, because that was
pretty great. I mean, they just gave up cash for Tory Craig.
I mean that was a remarkable thing that nobody saw coming. And you know,
it's hard to really pinpoint someone right now other than that he is young,
and even that he's young, like it'd be tough to find minutes for
him with the way that the Suns are returning so many players. But yeah,
somebody another wing, I think is the most obvious thing that the Suns
could target. So it's hard for me to pinpoint someone exactly like that.
I had two names circle that actually ended up being wings. I would like
to see them trying yet, And Thaddius Young was sort of just implicit here
and I get I mean, couldn't there if you can get him, I
think you can look at it as do you really give up Jelly Smith Jalen
Smith for a thirty three year old daddy's young who's hitting free agency. I'm
assuming you guys would do it based off this. I think you absolutely do
it. When you look at the state of the Western Conference, if I'm
being honest like it, with it being as wide open as it is,
I think you would only make that type of move if you really feel that
you're acquiring a top seven rotation player. But Fad Young is that you know
only someone who's going to be a real difference maker in the playoffs, not
another shaman type who will be a ninth man who maybe he plays in the
playoffs, maybe he doesn't. But for that Young, that's a talent level
where I think you absolutely do it. And would it be I think Mike
you mentioned that you're not sure where like if it would be hard to car
out minutes for that young you wouldn't just default to him taking backup settlement.
It's like, you really want to see javal McGee still have that role.
Well, yeah, I think that Chris Paul specifically asked for javalembe like he
wants to. It's clear that Chris Paul wants to play with Javail. He
likes to have those lob threats, the guys that are running down in the
lane. And I think, yeah, it's tough with that he's young,
because right, he doesn't really shoot threes anymore, but he's sort of that
he's Stario schartch Essentially, he does what Dario Schartz did for the Suns last
year. He's this guy that sort of stands in the right playmaking places in
the floor and is capable of moving the ball in the right ways. Space
eater. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think with that he's young,
it's not tough in that having the right tools and having more tools in
the toolbox from Monty Williams is the main goal there. So it's just you're,
you know, you start factoring in these guys all getting minutes. They
run out pretty fast. They really start running out pretty fast. The two
names that I had circled and they're small plays because I think that's it's I
didn't compare it to the Tory Craig move in my head when I was going
through this, but that was a great way to sort of look at as
b opportunistic and you know, look for just those players that are row that
could maybe play a bit role, or maybe the role is a little bit
larger than expected. Ken Rick Williams in Oklahoma City had a quietly amazing season
last year. I don't know, because he's so cheap the season after this
coming one, if that makes him less likely to be traded. But okayc
just feels like it's always constantly shifting pieces, and I think there's a chance
that we could even see Kenrick Siliers play some five there this year based off
how he was used last season. I think if they get into a roster
crunch, and because they have dudes who are between six seven and six nine
to spare, I think they're trying to set the NBA record for most players
out that size of other contract. You don't want an Abby in Toronto.
I'm curious what his future is there. If they're gonna keep Siakam, if
they're gonna keep Og and Scotty Barnes if they actually like Ken Birch and Precious
A Chua. That's again it speaks to I think how complete the Suns are
that those are the names that, like I kind of thought of and I
would have. I said this before and he actually got traded. I really
wanted them to figure out a way to get involved in the Larry Nance Junior
Sweepstakes. I thought he would have been a fantastic yeah for them. Yeah,
agreed. I mean they just didn't have the sense I think for that
one. No, I don't think they did. So, Mike, the
Sun's current win total over under as we record this is fifty point five.
Are you taking the over or the under on that? It's it's such an
easy over for me, Like it's just so easy to hit that over,
so much so that when I was giving out our fake over unders on our
podcast, I said it at fifty five because I wanted to see what our
guys would pick at fifty five. But yeah, I would have. I'm
gonna bet on it. I'll say that I'm gonna money on it. They
played at a fifty eight wind pace last year. The Western Conference is not
more intimidating this year because too many people are still hurt in the regular season.
You could talk about the playoffs as a different beast if you want.
But this regular season good at the beginning of the season. Last year they
got much better as the season progressed. Their competition didn't really get much better
in my eyes. So the only way, the only way they're going to
go down by more than eight wins in a single season is a catastrophic injury
Tither Chris Paul andre and or death Booker. Obviously that's possible, but that
could happen to anyone in any given season. So for me, it's it's
an easy over. I'm gonna use my risk free wind bet app on met
on that specific wind total separate conferences, obviously, but Philadelphia's is fifty one
point five. That seems blasphemous to me to have the Sun's lower than than
Philly. Knowing stuff, And like the East, the middle class of the
East is really deep, like it's not, you know, I still think
the meat and potatoes of the West is actually better than the East. I
know a lot of people want to have the discussion of which is better,
but I'm just that it's an easy over for me. Yeah, so the
Suns are my pick as of right now to come out of the West again.
That is subject to change when I finally go through my picks, and
it's maybe that's why I'm so angry they weren't more aggressive of the off season
because I wanted that to be easier. But you really have to be one
of the only ones I know though with that pick, the look if they
were I could have done. I was so close to doing like the most
obnoxious victory lap last year because they were my title pick and it was just
like so close so far. To see them watch them lose four straight gutted
me. Probably not as much as the gutted YouTube. But what teams do
you look at in the West? Sam and views like they're the toughest for
them to match up with Whether it's we need to just be better than them
overall getting past them in a playoff series like however you want to interpret that,
Yeah, all of them are tough in their own ways. I would
look at Denver again as a team where a Denver with a healthy Jamal Murray,
we swept them, and I trust me. I give Nuggets fans.
I shouldn't say we the Suns swept the Nuggets because people get mad when you
start doing that, and I give Nuggets fans all sorts of shit on Twitter
about it because I think they got a little cocky and they deserve it.
However, I am not naive, and I'm willing to admit that that would
be a much different series with an additional year of development for Michael Porter Jr.
Who I do have questions about in a playoff setting. But but still,
and most importantly Jamal Murray being healthy. I think that's a really interesting
matchup. The Jazz remain an intriguing matchup. I think DeAndre Ayton has has
evolved to a point where that specific matchup maybe used to give me more pause
six months ago than it does now. There are a few teams that really
frightened me. This is the point. I could look at the Lakers,
I could look at the Nuggets. I could look at the Jazz. If
the Clippers got fully healthy as well, obviously, maybe even the Warriors.
You know, I look at a lot of teams and I'm like, yeah,
they could beat the Suns in a series, but none of them do.
I think we're actually again them and none of them do. I think
the Suns are actually underdogs, really good position to be in. I think
if the clip, if the Clippers were fully healthy, that's the biggest threat
they are. They are underdogs. I just think they're they're healthy. Yeah,
I think the Sons are just it's a really tough matchup for the Suns,
in particular Chris Paul and Devin Booker, like they have the right kind
of guys to really bother them and their ability to switch so easily and still
have guys that can defend one on one and and even help and get back
to guys on three point shooters. Like that's that's tough for the Suns.
And beyond that, I think the Lakers too. I think the fact that
Anthony Davis is most likely going to be playing center a lot. I actually
weirdly think that matches up better for the Suns. Uh, you know,
with the fact that Russell Westbrook is on the team now too, but maybe
not, you know, I think that that team could be really tough too.
But yeah, I would like really healthy Warriors team is is tough for
everyone to match up against because they have Steph Curry. I would simply like
to see the Lakers shoot above thirty five percent from deep as a team in
any regular season game against the Suns this year before I really take the step
of being afraid of them in a playoffs setting. I don't know what to
make of the Lakers. They'll they'll be fine, but the Russell Westbrook thing
is just like one of the worst jump shooters in NBA history. So I
think i'd be with you guys if the Nuggets are gonna be fully healthy.
I'm still curious as too. I know acls aren't torn A cls aren't the
end of the world, but how many games does Jamal Murray get under his
bell? What does he look like by the time the playoffs roll around.
I'm almost just inclined to go with Utah because I feel like the Sun's the
way they want to play isn't going to disrupt Utah's defensive scheme as much as
some of the other teams can, unless the Suns want to debate from what
they're doing, which why would you do that when when it's clearly working.
Chris Paul has beaten Gilbert in the playoffs multiple times, and he just doesn't
like I feel like he loves playing against Gilbert. And that's that's the one
thing that I just think with the Nuggets just so sorry to go back to
it, but what does what does Yokis do on defense against the Suns?
I just like, he's such a it's just such a bad matchup for him,
and he saw it over and over and over again. He was just
if they dropped, they hit the midrange shot on him over and over and
over again. If he plays at the level, they just get right past
him and then they're finding corner shooters over and over again. I just I
mean, it would it would just really help if they had the weak side
pressure coming to help in the form of anyone who's not Michael Porter Jr.
And so maybe Jeff Green will help with that a little bit. But but
you're right, it's a problem. It was an obvious problem whom in the
series, and I don't know how it solved. It's not a problem that's
going to go away just because Jamal Murray is healthy for exactly. Yeah,
is there anything or anyone about this team I didn't ask that you guys think
needs to be covered. If like we didn't talk too much about campaign who
had like the resurgence but just anything specifically that you still think needs to be
talked about with this team, I think we covered I think about all of
it, right, Yeah, I think I think we got it. I
think your listeners are probably all suns down at this point. Maybe they learned
a thing or two though. Yeah, then they're going to continue to get
songs out as my agenda mussolard. If I in the title again, with
each Michael Bridge is off the dribble jumper, the agenda grows every single one.
I did tweet something about that just looking at his like the progression of
how many off the dribble jumpers he was taking, and people on Twitter were
I think probably because one of you retweeted it. There are people who are
very excited and people who were like mad about that. But the mccaal Bridge's
agenda continues around these parts. I'll start with, Mike, are you able
to tell our listeners where they can find you on social media and where they
can obviously find all the great work that the timeline is doing. Yeah,
yeah, I'm at protected pick. You can find me on Twitter tweeting mostly
about the Suns, a little bit about music, but you can find our
podcast on any podcast app. It's called The Timeline, a Phoenix Suns podcast
at the Timeline Pod on Twitter. We also just also on YouTube. You
can plan us on YouTube. We did just recently launch a Patreon if you're
interested, we do extra episodes there, extra content, some writing. Patreon
dot com slash the Timeline. You can check us out there. And since
I have a chance to plug, I'm just gonna say, go Mercury.
I'm excited to watch them in the finals. Sam, where can our listeners
find you on social good good call on the Mercury by the way, at
s Cooper Hoops or Scooper Hoops that works as well. Is my Twitter profile
and all the same places as Mike. We run the pod together. YouTube
channels great, always looking for If you're looking for kind of bite sized SUNS
analysis, maybe in the form of five or ten minutes and not a full
podcast, find us on the YouTube channel. If you're looking for full podcasts,
we bring those every week. So any streaming app works for that.
I echo everything they said. I can't recommend their podcast enough and you all
should consider subscribing to their Patreon. Mike, Sam, thank you guys so
much for coming on and doing this with me as per usual. It's great
talking to you guys, and I think, as you know, at this
point I will be pestering you again down the line. Thanks, looking forward
to it. Thank you, dam