1 00:00:17,199 --> 00:00:21,480 And we are back with another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Matt 2 00:00:21,519 --> 00:00:27,960 Kittle, Senior Elections correspondent at the Federalist and your experience Shirpa on today's quest 3 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:33,000 for Knowledge. As always, you can email the show at radio at the 4 00:00:33,119 --> 00:00:39,079 Federalist dot com, follow us on x at FDR LST, make sure to 5 00:00:39,119 --> 00:00:43,520 subscribe wherever you download your podcast, and of course to the premium version of 6 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:48,200 our website as well. I'm joined today by John Burlough, a Senior Fellow 7 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:53,960 and director of Finance Policy at the Competitive Enterprise Institute. He's also author of 8 00:00:54,159 --> 00:01:00,799 George Washington Entrepreneur, How our founding fathers private business pursuits changed America and the 9 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:10,000 world. On this Founding Generation as we celebrate the nation's two hundred forty eighth 10 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:17,760 birthday today, John, Welcome to the Federalist Radio Hour podcast. Thank you 11 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:19,760 for having me. Matt. It's a pleasure to be on the Federalist Radio 12 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:26,319 our podcast and talk about my book, George Washington Entrepreneur. Well, I'm 13 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:29,159 so glad to have you on. As you know, this is our Independence 14 00:01:29,239 --> 00:01:37,120 Day special and I wanted to really focus on which is often unfortunately in this 15 00:01:37,239 --> 00:01:41,920 day and age in this America, in this Republic, if indeed we can 16 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:48,640 keep it. Often lost in the conversation is the founding generation and what they 17 00:01:48,719 --> 00:01:53,280 went through to make this promise of liberty, this shining city on the hill 18 00:01:53,359 --> 00:01:59,280 for all of the world. I still believe in despite the tearing down of 19 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:02,040 the left. It's constant by the left. It's constantly gone on in this 20 00:02:02,159 --> 00:02:08,000 country, is certainly in recent years. But let's start off with George Washington, 21 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:15,599 the man, the person, how he became the George Washington. We 22 00:02:15,719 --> 00:02:21,520 know, obviously, we know there's a legend surrounding the first president of the 23 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:28,319 United States, the commander in chief of the army that would secure liberty for 24 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:34,199 America. But what about George Washington, the boy, George Washington, the 25 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:39,560 young man, and George Washington's early career in the military. Right. Well, 26 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:46,039 when we think of the founding fathers and some of the most brilliant ones, 27 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:51,080 we think of, you know, Jefferson and Franklin, and increasingly because 28 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:57,360 of the musical Hamilton. But George Washington has sort of been like the faith 29 00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:59,639 on the Dollar. I mean, we know that he's a good man, 30 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:05,759 that he was a that he crucially led us through the Revolutionary War, and 31 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,879 that you know, was our first president, you know, involuntarily gave up 32 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:15,120 power twice as general and president. But he was also brilliant, it is 33 00:03:15,319 --> 00:03:19,159 in his own way, and a brilliant entrepreneur. Well when he died was 34 00:03:19,199 --> 00:03:23,319 one of the wealthiest men of the country. And it's all the more remarkable 35 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:27,639 is that, well he wasn't exactly povery stricken. He didn't come from, 36 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:32,439 say it's privileged a background as say Thomas Jefferson and some of the others. 37 00:03:32,439 --> 00:03:37,800 His father died when he was eleven. His family really couldn't afford to send 38 00:03:37,879 --> 00:03:42,039 him to school like some to college and preparatories to like some of the other 39 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:46,719 founding fathers, who was basically working and educating himself since he was fifteen, 40 00:03:46,159 --> 00:03:51,000 but both through the businesses he built, starting on as a surveyor, a 41 00:03:51,039 --> 00:03:53,360 land surveyor in what was the gig economy of its day, and then just 42 00:03:53,439 --> 00:03:59,159 investing in real estate. He didn't inherit Mount Vernon. He bought some of 43 00:03:59,199 --> 00:04:02,319 the land, and he would later you know, inherit it do the death 44 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:06,879 of the death of this unfortunate death of his older brother. But he was 45 00:04:06,919 --> 00:04:13,719 able even before he did that to acquire some and become a first a freelance 46 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:18,439 surveyor and establish his reputation and a landowner, and along the way educating himself 47 00:04:18,439 --> 00:04:25,000 from everything from books like John Locke and Adam Smith to books that he would 48 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:30,040 read on south elf and forcemanship. Yeah, it's interesting too, having read 49 00:04:30,399 --> 00:04:34,639 quite extensively about George Washington, and I think you touch upon this in your 50 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:43,000 book as well, But George Washington will get more into his entrepreneurship. But 51 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:48,879 he was a very avid consumer sending away. Now this was of course when 52 00:04:49,199 --> 00:04:57,680 America was you know, a property of the Great Kingdom, and he would 53 00:04:57,759 --> 00:05:02,279 send away. But I've read the list of items that he would send away 54 00:05:02,399 --> 00:05:06,920 for, you know, across the seas in England and France and elsewhere, 55 00:05:08,759 --> 00:05:15,279 including everything from you know, home furnishings to let us just say with Martha 56 00:05:16,199 --> 00:05:23,759 bedroom accoutrement. And he was a believer. He was a believer in the 57 00:05:23,759 --> 00:05:27,920 consumption economy. We are very lucky and there's a lot, you know, 58 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:30,759 you can learn, you could really learn about a person. That's why I 59 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:34,279 said that it's so important to ride in you know, the administrative state as 60 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:39,720 far as like administrative searches because you can know a lot about the person by 61 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:45,079 just looking at some of their business records, business receipts he would order and 62 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:47,759 he kept, like all, we don't have the love letters from George and 63 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:53,480 Martha, and Martha burned them as was a customer as many and so all 64 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:57,560 the three of those are surviving, So we don't have some of the passionate 65 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,800 things he would have said to to Mark and some of the other uh uh. 66 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:04,040 And he never took pen in hand to biography, But through his business 67 00:06:04,079 --> 00:06:09,560 records we can see a lot of things, including what he was reading that 68 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:12,759 people thought he was a good horseman. I mean, he was a great 69 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,839 horseman at the time, and people thought he learned that from experience and a 70 00:06:15,879 --> 00:06:18,759 lot of what he did. But he would also order books on how to 71 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:23,800 do how to make jumps on horses, and how to take care of horses, 72 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,199 and he would read things like Joe, like John Locke, like even 73 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:31,439 like even even Shakespeare and others. So some of some of the great books. 74 00:06:31,439 --> 00:06:38,519 He would just become was really a self educated man on on on that 75 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:42,839 with without without formal schooling, and that informed of course a lot of his 76 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:47,079 military and uh uh uh career as a statesman, as well as the businesses 77 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:51,920 he built as an entrepreneur, which ranged from mule breeding, which was the 78 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:57,639 genetic engineering of its day, when you would cross breed like a horse and 79 00:06:57,639 --> 00:07:02,519 a donkey to make a mule, and the whiskey distillery that after his presidency 80 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:08,680 that non Vernon has has reopened to the public and now makes whiskey based on 81 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:12,319 his old recipe. You know, it's funny to me, John, you 82 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:15,759 mentioned you mentioned this in your book, of course, and I think it's 83 00:07:15,839 --> 00:07:21,399 very compelling. But as you note, you know the many innovative businesses that 84 00:07:21,439 --> 00:07:28,160 George Washington was involved in, again, from whiskey distillery, the mule breeding 85 00:07:28,319 --> 00:07:32,480 service, as you note, a flour mill that so sold flour internationally with 86 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:38,920 the G. Washington logo on it. Here is a founding father who, 87 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:46,439 like a former president who would like to be president again, knew how to 88 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:53,600 market himself, his name and his legacy to full advantage. Am I correct 89 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:57,000 in that assertion? Oh? Yes, very correct. You know, one 90 00:07:57,079 --> 00:08:01,480 hundred years before people would recognize you know, putting that putting, your putting 91 00:08:01,519 --> 00:08:05,399 the importance of labeling or branding your product like H. J. Hines did 92 00:08:05,439 --> 00:08:11,160 with with ketchup. Washington would put the G Washington on his flour and so 93 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:16,639 internationally I mane it to England, into some of the British colonies in the 94 00:08:16,639 --> 00:08:20,199 Caribbean, even you know, when America was a colony, and he did 95 00:08:20,319 --> 00:08:24,120 he then that was all a part of, you know, integrating his enterprises. 96 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:28,279 He thought correctly that tobacco was ruining the soil and that there was more 97 00:08:28,399 --> 00:08:35,480 domestic product for wheat, so he stopped growing tobacco uh at the at the 98 00:08:35,519 --> 00:08:37,600 time. You know, over a period of years, I just would do 99 00:08:37,759 --> 00:08:41,159 wheat, you know, hamp and other crops, and then with some of 100 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:46,440 the excess wheat, he would use that in the flour met and so it 101 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:48,240 was it was like, you know, it was like Mount Vernon, Inc. 102 00:08:48,399 --> 00:08:54,440 You know, integrating all of those commodities and products. So let me 103 00:08:54,480 --> 00:09:00,039 ask you, John, how much did George Washington's faith play a role in 104 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,120 the man, particularly in some very difficult hours for him. And I mean 105 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:09,279 that in in every sense of the word. The faith. I think that 106 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:13,200 played that played a very important role. He would also he would he would 107 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:20,000 he would talk about uh provid Providence meaning God. That was most often, 108 00:09:20,039 --> 00:09:28,000 but he talked about that very often and the in the invisible he mentioned he 109 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:35,320 used the term the invisible hand in which Adam Smith used in UH the Wealth 110 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:39,559 of Nations in Washington, as they said, read Adam Smith, but also 111 00:09:39,039 --> 00:09:43,879 the invisible hand in his in his anaugrow in his when he was saying in 112 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:48,840 his an oye grow aggress meant that you know, Washington said, the invisible 113 00:09:48,879 --> 00:09:52,480 hand was led by God, that led us here, you know, as 114 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:56,480 far as your people working together for liberty. And I think that's sort of 115 00:09:56,559 --> 00:10:01,799 he saw very much God, you know, hand of God is guiding events, 116 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:07,399 but people have to do their part. He was also very very much 117 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:13,840 an activist for religious freedom, putting the words of what would be in the 118 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:20,000 UH the first Amendment about UH about freedom of religion into UH into practice. 119 00:10:20,039 --> 00:10:24,679 He Uh. He said to a Jewish congregation, a Synagogue of Tour Senagogue 120 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:28,799 in Rhode Island, that the US will give big Atrino sanction and will be 121 00:10:28,919 --> 00:10:33,039 that you know, uh, the Jews, will you fully participate in public 122 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:39,799 and public life and UH really a landmark uh uh speech that celebrated every year 123 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:46,440 at that synagogue and also where I spoke at the UH the Church of Saint 124 00:10:46,519 --> 00:10:52,480 Mary now the Basilica of Saint Mary and Alexandria Washington uh had helped his friend 125 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:58,840 John Fitzgerald uh uh build the church by giving it by probably giving a contribution 126 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:05,039 there and and and just also you know, champion the rights of both Catholics 127 00:11:05,039 --> 00:11:11,799 Andrews when both I mean in particularly Catholics in Virginia had been victims of religious 128 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:15,519 persecution so very much had a strong faith. And believe, you know, 129 00:11:15,759 --> 00:11:20,320 others should be able to other denominations of religions, should be able to be 130 00:11:20,399 --> 00:11:24,360 able to exercise theirs. That's interesting to me, I'm I'm you know, 131 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:30,159 thinking about during the Revolutionary War, the darkest days of the Revolutionary War, 132 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:35,000 I mean you think about Valley Forge and the starvation, watching you as men 133 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:41,960 starve, watching some say I'm putting my hands up here, I'm I'm I'm 134 00:11:41,039 --> 00:11:50,279 done. But being able to hold the colonial army together really not professional soldiers 135 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:58,080 whatsoever, just volunteer as citizens who were fighting for a cause. And what 136 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:05,000 was there ever a time where George Washington was so down, so depressed, 137 00:12:05,159 --> 00:12:13,200 that he didn't see any hope of what ultimately was the conclusion of the Revolutionary 138 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:20,120 War. I could not find one now he would he would certainly change tactics 139 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:24,480 and retreat. Uh may have you know, I don't know that any familiarity 140 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:30,519 with with what Son the warriors like Son Sue would say about advancing through retreat 141 00:12:31,039 --> 00:12:35,279 when they or tactical retreats if circumstances calling for it. But he very much 142 00:12:35,399 --> 00:12:39,279 believed in the in the cause, in the cause of in the cause of 143 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:45,519 the cause of liberty, and would give soldiers things like you mentioned. I 144 00:12:45,519 --> 00:12:52,559 mean certainly were certainly religious texts, but also Thomas Paine's common sense, you 145 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:56,200 know, of knowing what they were fighting for. He even though he was 146 00:12:56,200 --> 00:13:01,600 on the battlefield and didn't sign it, depressed for a declaration of independence. 147 00:13:01,639 --> 00:13:07,320 So there would be a type of mission statement. So very much would I 148 00:13:07,519 --> 00:13:15,000 would read inspirational things, would sort of give a side reading for inspirational things. 149 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:20,080 And so was it, you know what wasn't Pollyannash, But I would 150 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:26,759 certainly call him an optimist. Congrats you owe one hundred thousand dollars. The 151 00:13:26,799 --> 00:13:30,559 Watched Out on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski. Every day, Chris helps 152 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,200 unpack the connection between politics and the economy and how it affects your wallet. 153 00:13:33,279 --> 00:13:39,120 As the national debt topples thirty five trillion, every American now owes over one 154 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:43,919 hundred thousand dollars to our national debt, and nobody running for president has plans 155 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:46,879 to cut spending. Whether it's happening in DC or down on Wall Street, 156 00:13:46,919 --> 00:13:50,120 it's affecting you financially. Be informed. Check out the Watchdout on Wall Street 157 00:13:50,159 --> 00:13:54,000 podcast with Chris Markowski on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. 158 00:13:56,000 --> 00:14:01,519 And he wasn't above the optics politics. And there are a number of 159 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:07,159 incidents that I think I could relate here, but the one in particular happened, 160 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:11,679 of course before he became the first president of the United States, and 161 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:16,440 that was as the war ended, and he was saying ad to his his 162 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:22,240 men, to his army, to his his his generals, and it was 163 00:14:22,279 --> 00:14:31,039 at the I believe it was at the pub in New York City, and 164 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:39,240 him saying goodbye. I think in that quest. Really the way he did 165 00:14:39,279 --> 00:14:45,840 that I think defined the man and who he was. And at one point 166 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:50,360 even before then, during the war, where he had to grab for his 167 00:14:50,360 --> 00:15:00,600 his glasses and UH and his his defeated feeling men in the field, and 168 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,240 his generals looked at him and said, oh my god, look at how 169 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:11,519 much this man has suffered for the cause of a free republic. I think 170 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:18,679 optics were very important. And also he would get close to the the what 171 00:15:20,279 --> 00:15:24,919 today we would call the influencers of his day. I mean, I'm writing 172 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:28,360 the book. How he actually I mentioned Thomas Paine before the book. He 173 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:35,480 actually had Thomas pain as his house guest. And actually they did a scientific 174 00:15:35,519 --> 00:15:37,879 experiment where they proved some of the properties of natural gas, you know, 175 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:41,759 sending the water on fire. So he very much would you know, make 176 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:46,080 himself available of course to portrait painters, that's why there are so many portraits, 177 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:52,080 but also writers and artists. And then after he became general, even 178 00:15:52,120 --> 00:16:00,159 before he became president, people would he had just volumes of correspondence by somebody 179 00:16:00,399 --> 00:16:04,799 basically like authors trying to get a woke endorsement, people trying to get him 180 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:11,200 to say something nice about their invention. And indeed he did champion for patents 181 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:14,360 for inventions he believed in, like James Rumsey, who was one of the 182 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:18,039 co inventors of the steamboat twenty years before Robert Fulton. So very much. 183 00:16:18,279 --> 00:16:25,000 Washington thought optics were important as you said, but also getting, you know, 184 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:30,960 sort of championing and having you know, conversations and bringing in, you 185 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:36,759 know, some of the artists and writers who would promote the American cause. 186 00:16:37,159 --> 00:16:42,080 John Burlow, a Senior Fellow and Director of Finance Policy at the Competitive Enterprise 187 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:48,120 Institute, also is author a fascinating book, George Washington Entrepreneur. Now our 188 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:55,879 founding fathers private business pursuits changed America and the world. As we celebrate this 189 00:16:56,039 --> 00:17:06,799 Independence Day, the nation's birthday, it's founding and all because some founding citizens 190 00:17:07,039 --> 00:17:14,160 of Great Britain at the time decided that they had had enough of the tyrannical 191 00:17:14,279 --> 00:17:21,279 hand of big government, kingly led big government. Let me ask you this 192 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:26,519 question, is we skip ahead some two hundred and fifty years, what would 193 00:17:26,519 --> 00:17:37,759 George Washington think of not only today's Republic, today's America, but the world 194 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:45,880 of the free market in America today so called I think, as they say 195 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:49,720 in as they say in George Washington Entrepreneur, there are many things he would 196 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:55,240 like. There are certainly, you know, certainly he'd be enthralled with some 197 00:17:55,319 --> 00:17:59,480 of the technology. I mean, he actually we think about it. I 198 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,640 mean he he and the founding fathers would have more of an understanding of the 199 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:08,559 world today with technology and every else than you might think when Washington. Washington, 200 00:18:08,839 --> 00:18:12,559 as I said, championed inventors, and he had when balloonists were here 201 00:18:12,599 --> 00:18:17,039 in France, people started, really what was the beginning of man fight with 202 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:22,240 balloons in like the seventeen eighties and in France, and Washington said, you 203 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:27,039 know, someday we may be flying through the air to go to use that 204 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:30,839 term, to get to Paris. So I think things like airplanes, he'd 205 00:18:32,039 --> 00:18:37,440 think he'd has some familiarity with like and be fascinated and frankly probably endorsed things 206 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:42,039 like cryptocurrency, says he kept Ledgers, was familiar with alternative money like tobacco 207 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:48,319 warehouse receipts, and just was generally was familiar with encryption in terms of like 208 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:55,039 ciphering with his aspiring and you know, the invisible ink and some forms of 209 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:59,240 encryption back then. But I think the whole thing he would be saddened, 210 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:06,599 although maybe uh uh, maybe take some joy in in two recent Supreme Court 211 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,279 cases that you know, as far as the Chevron Doctrine and the restoring of 212 00:19:10,279 --> 00:19:15,160 the right the jury prial that the things he's fought against that Britain, saying 213 00:19:15,279 --> 00:19:19,680 that great Britain, you know, not just taxation, but over regulation with 214 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:26,160 without regulation, without representation, where they would crack down on colonial home goods 215 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:30,720 like nails with the Iron Act and the had Act and the Wool Act of 216 00:19:30,759 --> 00:19:37,000 colonists making things like nails and silver. Aware that and and illegally competing with 217 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:41,000 Britain there that that that was, you know, that that was part of 218 00:19:41,039 --> 00:19:47,279 that that you shouldn't make laws without representing they. That's why Article one, 219 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:52,160 Section one of the Constitution best law making in the UH in the legislative branch. 220 00:19:52,319 --> 00:19:56,599 Yet the administrative state, you know, makes its own laws. It 221 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:02,279 can call a wetland and negative of the waterway at cryptocurrency and security, what 222 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:04,960 kind of whatever whatever it once to as far as and then he said to 223 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:11,000 make the laws. And so that was but that was somewhat reversed in the 224 00:20:11,079 --> 00:20:15,799 in the Low for Bright case that UH overturned the Chevron doctrine. But what 225 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:21,400 he really would be upset about because of all the ways the British government, 226 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:26,279 this is a big grievance bypassed jury trials, like by by having people accused 227 00:20:26,319 --> 00:20:30,359 of smuggling to go to uh, you know, Halifax, Nova Scotia, 228 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,920 which is now part of Canada, without a jury. And that was with 229 00:20:33,039 --> 00:20:37,920 Brievans, you know, prominently listed in the Declaration of Independence and in Washington 230 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:42,039 before then, in Washington's fair factors always that he wrote with George Mason for 231 00:20:42,079 --> 00:20:45,759 the some of the citizens of Virginia, I said, with with Britain. 232 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,000 And then was the Seventh Amendment right and the Bill of Rights to the Constitution. 233 00:20:49,519 --> 00:20:55,440 Yet you had these things agencies like the sec and and other agencies like 234 00:20:55,559 --> 00:20:59,559 the well the FCC, I r s other things where they say, oh, 235 00:20:59,559 --> 00:21:03,279 okay, we're accusing you of securities fraud. But like they did with 236 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:10,799 mister Jocacy, yet you can't you can't have a jury trial until this multi 237 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:15,279 year process within the unhaus Administrative Court. And then the Supreme Court rightly said 238 00:21:15,319 --> 00:21:18,960 in the Jarcacy case, and well, in many instances you can't do that. 239 00:21:19,279 --> 00:21:25,720 So they were putting the path right to that. And Washington actually said, 240 00:21:26,599 --> 00:21:30,400 he warned in the Farewell Address, the spirit of encroachment tends to consolidate 241 00:21:30,519 --> 00:21:33,680 the powers of all the department into one and just to create whatever form of 242 00:21:33,799 --> 00:21:41,359 government a real despotism, and so I think he was almost foreseeing the administrative 243 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,799 state, and so it would have been at least somewhat heartened by the Supreme 244 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,559 Court case, those two Supreme Court cases. And I was, amazingly enough, 245 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,920 just as Soda bay rag Her just said, is saying, well, 246 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:57,599 well, Washington would like the encroachment of the other of the of the judiciary 247 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:03,839 of the legislative at the leg decided to abrogate it. So the legislature decided 248 00:22:03,839 --> 00:22:07,039 to average its over roll in it. But I think she totally misinterpreted what 249 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:11,119 he was he was trying to say and warning against. I agree with you 250 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:17,799 one hundred percent. And I think George Washington, by his conduct, his 251 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:22,559 actions, had a great deal of deference obviously to the Constitution and the first 252 00:22:22,599 --> 00:22:29,599 branch, and that it's the first branch for a reason. Compare again, 253 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:38,240 I realize there are apples and orange comparisons from you know, the early seventeen 254 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:45,759 nineties to the you know, twenty twenty four, this era in which we 255 00:22:45,839 --> 00:22:52,839 live. But nonetheless, this was an administration, a first administration re elected 256 00:22:53,519 --> 00:23:00,839 that aeshewed big government, did it not? I would say, I would 257 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,640 say, yeah, it's huge and it's huge big government. And also UH, 258 00:23:04,079 --> 00:23:14,519 Washington let UH and it did important things like also the UH the UH 259 00:23:15,279 --> 00:23:18,880 having the setting the patent pack and you know, granting you know, intellectual 260 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:25,200 property for invetors and championing innovation that way. It tried to pursue, uh, 261 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:29,880 you know, a policy of neutrality toward all countries, including including Great 262 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:34,039 Britain until those we fought with and UH. And Washington actually never went for 263 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:40,480 although he quietly lobby to get some of some of Hamilton's more you know, 264 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:45,720 all the although he would side with Hamilton, which I think rightly on paying 265 00:23:45,759 --> 00:23:48,480 back you know, say the the war bonds, he wouldn't, you know, 266 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:53,279 do some of go for some of Hamilton's subsidies on on gun manufacturing. 267 00:23:53,559 --> 00:23:57,880 As some of the subsequent letters letters reveals so very much. He kept, 268 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:03,559 He kept government, tried to keep government restrained, and warned about enproachments in 269 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:10,519 the in the Farewell Address. And what about the fiscal condition of the United 270 00:24:10,519 --> 00:24:17,200 States government right now? I mean it is it is hard to imagine a 271 00:24:17,519 --> 00:24:23,960 George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, any of the founders looking at 272 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:32,359 this debt and not scratching their powdered hair and saying, my goodness, what 273 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:40,519 have the future generations wrought? Yes, very much they knew and they had 274 00:24:40,599 --> 00:24:45,039 you know, they knew about like inflationary state governments with money, and they 275 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:49,559 knew about you know, where you couldn't you couldn't trust state money. It 276 00:24:49,599 --> 00:24:56,279 had to have alternative currency, like tobacco warehouse receipts. I think they would 277 00:24:56,279 --> 00:25:02,680 be very disappointed both in that they had did the administrative state. So yes 278 00:25:02,759 --> 00:25:06,759 that they would like. I think they like some of our technology, because 279 00:25:06,799 --> 00:25:10,720 they were very much into technology of them, of them, of themselves and 280 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,680 themselves of their day. You know, you have Robert Libby to do side. 281 00:25:14,759 --> 00:25:18,359 That was one of the drafters of the Decoration of Independents, who helped 282 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:22,880 fund the Robert Colton in inventing the steamboats. So some of them were involved 283 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:26,720 in the cutting edge technology of their day. But the way you know that 284 00:25:26,839 --> 00:25:30,559 some of the things the government runs, they they would be very disappointed in. 285 00:25:33,039 --> 00:25:40,160 Let me ask you the law fair question and the concept of weaponizing the 286 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,799 Department of Justice. You know, there certainly was an attorney general at the 287 00:25:42,839 --> 00:25:48,640 founding of this country. It was not the kind of Department of justice we 288 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:56,079 have today. That goes without saying, what do you think Washington would think 289 00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:03,720 of what has happened in this country with the Department of Justice over the last 290 00:26:03,319 --> 00:26:10,319 three and a half years. I would I would think he would be he 291 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:18,039 would be very much against the weapon the weaponizing of the weaponizing of government to 292 00:26:18,319 --> 00:26:22,839 uh to do this and would want some of the restraint would very much. 293 00:26:26,279 --> 00:26:29,640 I think I think they all very much believed that, you know, Congress 294 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,920 having the power of the purse and the separation of powers, and that laws 295 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:38,119 come from Congress. I mean, weaponization is sort of is sort of an 296 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:45,960 is sort of in some ways a usurpation of the of the law, of 297 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:52,480 the lawmaking, of the lawmaking brand to try to achieve things that Congress hasn't 298 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:57,000 made illegal. If you look at things like Operation Choke Point, things like 299 00:26:57,039 --> 00:27:03,079 that, it's it's Congress, it's it's time to do fill into legislative gaps 300 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:07,599 by the executive branch and say all right, well guns are still guns are 301 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:12,720 still legal, uh uh, or or what or whatever commodity you someone doesn't 302 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:18,880 like, but we are going to you know, punish you for dealing with 303 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,359 these customers. And I am uh the Bulow case with the n R A. 304 00:27:23,519 --> 00:27:27,079 Uh. You know, Congress restored I think the meaning of the of 305 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,440 the first This report did a good job, took the first step and in 306 00:27:30,519 --> 00:27:34,480 restoring that saying, you know, if you intimidate someone to buy remember Unfortunately 307 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:38,680 they didn't do that in some of the jaw boning cases they like the Murphy 308 00:27:38,759 --> 00:27:41,759 case with the with Missouri. As far as what you know, someone with 309 00:27:41,799 --> 00:27:45,640 a Biden administration said with COVID so very much, it would be the type 310 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:51,359 of encroachment that you know, creates that he said in Washington his farewell address, 311 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,200 you know, creates a real uh a real as his terms are real 312 00:27:55,240 --> 00:28:03,160 destinism. Yeah. At the end of of his two terms in office, 313 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:08,440 George Washington of course warned us about partisanship in politics. It's interesting that he 314 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:15,880 did because he saw partisanship grow certainly from the origins and it was something that 315 00:28:17,079 --> 00:28:23,519 certainly was not not surprising to anybody who was following the politics of the day. 316 00:28:23,559 --> 00:28:27,200 But you know, it feels quaint almost to think of the federalist and 317 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:32,359 the anti federalist at the time. But there was some nasty, nasty campaigning, 318 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:38,519 you know, the things that the Jefferson, folks said about John Adams 319 00:28:38,759 --> 00:28:45,200 and vice versa, would run up against any of the nasty things, many 320 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:49,480 of the nasty things we've heard in modern day campaigning. But what do you 321 00:28:49,519 --> 00:28:56,519 think George Washington would think of where we stand today in this two party system 322 00:29:00,039 --> 00:29:06,680 where it has come from his admonishment? Well, I mean, I don't 323 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,319 he was sort of aligning himself with the Federalists at the end. I don't 324 00:29:10,359 --> 00:29:15,079 know how in general he would be disappointed. He may have almost seen it 325 00:29:15,119 --> 00:29:19,039 as inevitable. I mean, he and that was sort of how he was 326 00:29:19,079 --> 00:29:22,720 looking at as he retired to Mount Vernon. He died in you know, 327 00:29:22,839 --> 00:29:26,559 late seventeen ninety nine, and so he was seeing some of the events for 328 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:33,720 the eighteen hundred election, which would have been kind of the first the first 329 00:29:33,799 --> 00:29:38,880 one where you actually had you know, two parties with the you know, 330 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:47,759 the Jeffersons Democratic Republicans and the U which we threw the Democrats and the Adams 331 00:29:47,759 --> 00:29:52,559 of the Federalists. So, but I think the usurpation by the just and 332 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,559 some of the things, the weaponization you said, you know, would be 333 00:29:56,039 --> 00:30:00,119 would very much you know, he would be very much agrieved by that. 334 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:06,279 And the fact that the administrators rate types contolidate both you know, becomes judge 335 00:30:06,319 --> 00:30:10,359 and jury in some of these cases, and these you know, administrative courts, 336 00:30:10,759 --> 00:30:14,160 like the SEC tried to do. And when at least take some solas 337 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:18,799 that the a Brieboard is now trying to ran some of this in back to 338 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:26,559 the core of your book and Washington as businessman, as entrepreneur, you know, 339 00:30:27,279 --> 00:30:32,440 one of the reasons, of course, of the many reasons, the 340 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:40,400 many liberty reasons that the colonists fought to break away from Great Britain was because 341 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:44,599 they wanted to do business the way they wanted to do business, and they 342 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:51,160 did not want to have their businesses taxed a without representation, and the regulations, 343 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:55,559 as you mentioned before, constantly put on them. And here we are 344 00:30:55,640 --> 00:31:00,319 today with all kinds of regulations. You talked about the overturning of Chevron and 345 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:06,799 the administrative state. That's a big reason for the mountains of regulation that we 346 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:11,759 have today. Would a George Washington entrepreneur, not a president, but an 347 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:19,480 entrepreneur be able to survive in today's overregulated state, That is a very good 348 00:31:19,559 --> 00:31:26,200 question. He would certainly have some grievances against that just like he had some 349 00:31:26,279 --> 00:31:32,839 grievances against the regulation without representation and the I crusive of the British government. 350 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:37,480 And not just George Washington. I've written about Bernie Marcus of Home Depot saying 351 00:31:37,519 --> 00:31:41,079 if things like Starvey's Oxley, which makes it so hard to go public, 352 00:31:41,519 --> 00:31:47,160 had been in place, would he doesn't think Bernie Marcus, I think he 353 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:52,000 wouldn't been able to be able to probably start Home Depot. And Sam Walton 354 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:56,319 was able to go public in the seventies when Walmart was really in just two 355 00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:00,319 states Missouri and Arkansas. I said, he tapped out all the banks, 356 00:32:00,599 --> 00:32:04,119 so he went public, did not have to go to get you know, 357 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:08,799 to raise additional rounds of funding from wealthy private investors in San Francisco. But 358 00:32:09,319 --> 00:32:15,119 Sarvates Astley Act from you know, attended to you know, correct corporate scandals 359 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:21,000 has made that so hard for American entrepreneurs to go to go public, like 360 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,839 like Walton, and like with Walmart and Home Depot have that it's been you 361 00:32:24,839 --> 00:32:30,160 know, it's not just that George Washington. It's a good somebody who started 362 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:34,200 in the seventies and eighties deal with the regulations today and a lot of them 363 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,599 are resourceable as they could, but some of it it's going to stop or 364 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:42,119 to delay the innovation and the jobs that we could get, or or to 365 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:46,200 give that you know, advantage to countries like China that or even some of 366 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:52,039 our friendly rivals who don't have that kind of red tape. That's that's a 367 00:32:52,039 --> 00:32:57,599 great point. And I think about George Washington the entrepreneurs as you you talk 368 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:06,599 about him in your book. How much did George Washington influence capitalism the way 369 00:33:06,759 --> 00:33:12,160 Smith saw John Locke saw it, and the other great thinkers of the free 370 00:33:12,279 --> 00:33:16,359 market system. You know, he had a great deal of influence for so 371 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:21,000 many people on so many fronts. Commander in chief, President of the United 372 00:33:21,039 --> 00:33:27,079 States, you know, the man who led in essence through his soft but 373 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:36,640 soft spoken, but yet very powerful presence in that room in Philadelphia during the 374 00:33:37,119 --> 00:33:42,799 Constitutional Convention. You know, he was the great American icon? Was he 375 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:52,920 the great American icon that really helped American style capitalism off the ground and survive 376 00:33:52,119 --> 00:33:59,839 for so long? I think you could be very you could very much say 377 00:34:00,359 --> 00:34:02,720 in certainly in certain areas well. First of all, you know, he 378 00:34:02,799 --> 00:34:07,000 would listen to people just through the things he did in this administration, like 379 00:34:07,719 --> 00:34:14,079 there was no cabinet meetings required by the constitution, there were no cabinet meetings, 380 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:19,239 yet he would convene and have you know, Hamilton and Jefferson together and 381 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,320 hash it out. But also things that he did, like you know, 382 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:27,920 he signed the Patent Act and then took an active role in getting some of 383 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,880 the first patents approved for the like this, the sea, the steamboat, 384 00:34:31,119 --> 00:34:34,760 you know, and I probably had to say, you know, you know, 385 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:39,079 carrying out the power of the Congress to create a system of patents in 386 00:34:39,119 --> 00:34:45,400 the Constitution. And before that, even if general, he championed state patents 387 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:51,920 for like some some inventors like Virginia inventor James Rumsey who basically co invented the 388 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,360 steamboat and had a five mile ride with a steamboat actually in the year of 389 00:34:55,360 --> 00:35:02,800 the Constitution seventeen eighty seven, about twenty years before before Robert Coulton would commercialize 390 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:09,199 it. And then people did emulate his agricultural practices, both with the you 391 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:15,480 know, the planning of of of we rather and substituting crops for tobacco. 392 00:35:16,079 --> 00:35:21,599 And he was the first in America to have a among the first in America 393 00:35:21,639 --> 00:35:24,880 to have a mule breeding business, so even among mules and through this today 394 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:29,639 he's been called the father of the American mule. So in a lot of 395 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:35,960 ways, his entrepreneurial experience and his what he did with branding and others and 396 00:35:36,039 --> 00:35:43,280 other things certainly did influence uh the way that you know, people, you 397 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:47,360 know what today we call the American dream and UH and people and people pursuing 398 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:52,480 it. In fact, there was a question about Adams actually mentioned in you 399 00:35:52,519 --> 00:35:55,880 know, nominating him to lead our groups in the in the battlefield, but 400 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:02,480 in becoming the general charge of recruits Washington's independent portion. It's one of his 401 00:36:02,599 --> 00:36:07,079 qualiblications. So it may have been one of the reasons they even chose him 402 00:36:07,119 --> 00:36:12,280 to lead the American battle for independence. It is, it's it's still interesting 403 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:16,440 to me, and your book, you know, clearly delves into it. 404 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:20,719 We've talked about it. I haven't seen a lot of books mentioned that not 405 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:27,840 only was Washington, you know, the seen as the founder of his country, 406 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:34,039 he's also the founder of the mule trade, which which is the sort 407 00:36:34,079 --> 00:36:39,679 of moniker that that you don't often hear with George Washington, right right, 408 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:45,679 I mean mules and mules really increase of the agricultural and productivity at the time 409 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,840 before they had like big practors and the other things. And there's still you 410 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,800 sort of in remote areas today, like in Afghanistan where you can't get cars 411 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:57,639 through, they can do some heavy work. So there still is a use 412 00:36:57,679 --> 00:37:01,239 for mules today. So that I mean it led to other innovations when he 413 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:08,000 sold the and began America because of him, began breeding the mule. You 414 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:13,400 know, I think about as you know, George Washington passed away in late 415 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:20,159 seventeen ninety nine, So what he saw his vision of America. I know 416 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:25,480 because he spent time surveying in Ohio and what was called the West of the 417 00:37:25,559 --> 00:37:31,840 United States at that time. So I think he foresaw the expansion of America, 418 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:37,079 but he died before Jefferson, of course made that a massive reality, 419 00:37:37,119 --> 00:37:42,760 doubling the size of the United States of America, and then obviously what would 420 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:49,360 happen under Polk and others to expand America to its current footprint today. Do 421 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,639 you think he would be amazed? Do you think he foresaw the so called 422 00:37:52,840 --> 00:38:02,239 manifest destiny that would come later on in subsequent president administrations. I think he 423 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:08,280 certainly would see and would not be unfamiliar with America expanding. I mean, 424 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:14,960 there were a couple of new states under his watch. I believe Kentucky became 425 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:16,800 a state, So so I know, I don't I don't. I don't 426 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:22,119 think that at that at that much he would have it would have it would 427 00:38:22,159 --> 00:38:28,239 have necessarily he might have made the extent Maya, but not necessarily the country 428 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,920 growing would have would have would have surprised him and developing. I mean he 429 00:38:32,079 --> 00:38:37,599 actually one of one of the things activities business activities he was evolved was trying 430 00:38:37,679 --> 00:38:45,480 to you know, make uh, the building a canal on or several canowns 431 00:38:45,519 --> 00:38:50,480 on on the Potomac River and making it more amenable to U two ships as 432 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,639 well as as well as having things like steamboats for more transportation. So he 433 00:38:54,920 --> 00:39:00,519 very much I think he very much wanted the state to be and the areas 434 00:39:00,519 --> 00:39:04,840 in the states to be more connected. So that would be I think he 435 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,480 would be might be pleasantly surprised, and it would be would be pleasing to 436 00:39:09,199 --> 00:39:13,679 him. Final question for you, John, and you've been very generous at 437 00:39:13,679 --> 00:39:19,760 the time. I appreciate fascinating book and a fascinating conversation. Always, uh, 438 00:39:20,159 --> 00:39:24,079 just relish conversations about the founding generation. I think we need to have 439 00:39:24,159 --> 00:39:30,519 more discussions about the founding generation, not merely just the cultural implications, but 440 00:39:30,639 --> 00:39:37,559 the implications for things as you know that we take for granted the free market 441 00:39:37,679 --> 00:39:50,559 system, the capitalistic system of America. Where where does Washington's legacy play today 442 00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:59,760 in the main in uh business, the economy, and the spirit of entrepreneurship. 443 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:07,639 I think Washington has set the has set the example of of you know, 444 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:13,079 given giving up how I mean as prime example would maybe leading America to 445 00:40:13,159 --> 00:40:17,199 victory and giving up giving up power twice, once his general and once his 446 00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:25,079 president, and leading you know the rocky road both as as a new as 447 00:40:25,119 --> 00:40:30,760 you know, struggling for independence and a new nation. But he has had 448 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:37,039 many other influences as well, on on agriculture, on the beginning of the 449 00:40:37,079 --> 00:40:40,440 free on the of the free, of the free market, and in and 450 00:40:40,519 --> 00:40:47,719 in religious freedom. And I think his influence is continuing and hopefully it will 451 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:52,440 be even greater as and this is what I try to do in George Washington 452 00:40:52,639 --> 00:41:00,960 Entrepreneur, say that you know, people, his writings are now available at 453 00:41:00,039 --> 00:41:05,920 you know what if you go to Mount Vernon online and look at look at 454 00:41:06,119 --> 00:41:07,320 look at some of a book, at some of his work. You can 455 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:13,239 see a bunch of things from that he had written, from business correspondents, 456 00:41:13,519 --> 00:41:17,800 uh, correspondence with some statesman like Jefferson, other other things. And that's 457 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:22,599 still being you know, not all of his work has been has been put 458 00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:28,239 has been put online in catalogs. That's ongoing, like probably we will will 459 00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:32,079 be completed uh by the next twenty years. So people should, you know, 460 00:41:32,559 --> 00:41:36,079 go, you know, and use the tools of technology. They have 461 00:41:36,639 --> 00:41:39,239 to look at what Washington said on a bunch of things and get to know 462 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:44,639 his business career. And a place to start, if I may give it, 463 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:52,159 my own book is George Washington Entrepreneur, available Amazon, Barnes and Noble 464 00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:57,599 and wherever many venues, but where where books are sold. I think that's 465 00:41:57,599 --> 00:42:00,119 a good place to start. As the reporter, I always say one final 466 00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:04,559 question. But you've stirred something, and so quickly I'll just add this. 467 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:10,719 It is very interesting that you know, you have someone with that much power, 468 00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:17,440 that much esteem, that much potential to do what I would say would 469 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:23,119 be the wrong thing. There were a lot of the New Americans who thought 470 00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:30,599 that this man should be America's new king. He rejected that did he reject 471 00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:37,559 that in no small part because of his entrepreneurial spirit, that he had a 472 00:42:37,639 --> 00:42:43,079 lot of other projects he wanted to attend to in the world of a personal 473 00:42:43,199 --> 00:42:46,639 business. I'd say that is that is certainly part of the reason you're onto 474 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:51,199 something there with Yes, he always talked about, you know, and he 475 00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:53,800 was I think, you know, I would talk about being under my own 476 00:42:55,239 --> 00:43:00,800 buying in factory I think a reference to the do a biblical passage there, 477 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:06,400 but my own buying in Big Tree Ant and Mount Vernon and just all of 478 00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:10,000 this he worried about that. He would constantly write letters when he was on 479 00:43:10,079 --> 00:43:16,280 the battlefield or the presidency about how high the fence should be and what materials 480 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:21,920 they should use. He basically even with that, with just writing letters, 481 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:27,599 not being online like we are anything directed, how how you know new facilities 482 00:43:27,599 --> 00:43:30,440 should be building Mount Vernon? So, yes, very much. I mean 483 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:35,000 Mount Vernon was his paradise and he wanted to go home, but he was 484 00:43:35,039 --> 00:43:40,159 a citizen statesman and general, and some other things had to be done so 485 00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:46,400 that he and everyone else could have have the chance of prosperity. Because of 486 00:43:46,519 --> 00:43:51,400 the pleasures that I think he said something like of a free government at the 487 00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,800 end of his as he his hand at the of the of his farewell address. 488 00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:59,480 So yes, definitely he wanted to very much. You know, Mount 489 00:43:59,599 --> 00:44:04,599 Vernon would his parent with his parat icy what he wanted to go back there 490 00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:08,960 and was eager to go back there after the war and after his presidency. 491 00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:14,280 Indeed, but it is true George Washington was nothing if not a master of 492 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:19,559 details. Those letters are just amazing, how detailed they are. To his 493 00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:25,519 staff at Mount Vernon and to the people he entrusted Mount Vernon too while he 494 00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:30,719 was away, and he was a task master, There's no doubt about that. 495 00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:35,519 Very much. Appreciate your time, very much, appreciate your conversation, 496 00:44:35,639 --> 00:44:39,119 sir. I wish you nothing but success in your book and in your future 497 00:44:39,199 --> 00:44:44,239 endeavors. Okay, thanks so much to you man. It was a pleasure 498 00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:49,079 to talk here about George Washington Entrepreneur. Indeed, thanks to my guest today, 499 00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:53,760 John Burlough, a Senior Fellow and director a finance policy at the Competitive 500 00:44:54,000 --> 00:45:00,800 Enterprise Institute. He's also author of George Washington Entrepreneur, How our founding fathers 501 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:07,639 private business pursuits changed America and the world. You've been listening to another edition 502 00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:12,119 of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, senior correspondent at the Federalist. 503 00:45:12,559 --> 00:45:15,280 We'll be back soon with more. Until then, stay lovers of freedom 504 00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:17,039 and anxious for the fray.