WEBVTT

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M spaing and spending, the spending, the snow smoke, some things I

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love spend. All right, what's
up? I want to make sure you

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can hear me, Chase? Can
you hear me? Yep? Yep?

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Can you hear me? You're pretty
low? All right? That's easy.

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Fix one second? All right?
What about that? It's a little better?

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I guess here. No, it's
easy to turn them. I'll turn

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them more. It sounds like you're
not using your mic. Sounds like you're

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using your computer mic. But maybe
my stuff's just turned down or something.

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Try now, what about now?
That's a little better? Go, I

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can go up a little more.
No, that's good. Can y'all hear

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him? Ever? Get pretty good? All right? And Bryson is entering

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the room, so his audio is
connecting. And then we'll let Chase take

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over. Now, whoever wants to
kick it off can go first. I

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don't care if Bryson wants to go
or if he wants me to go.

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We could do it either way,
don't matter. Okay, how you doing,

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man? What's up? What's up? Chilling? Chilling? All right,

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welcome over here to my channel to
so tonight's debate. As you guys

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know is with Bryson Gray. The
topic is who keeps the Torah. Bryson

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described himself as a Torah keeping Christian
and his channel is linked. I'm sure

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you guys are familiar with Bryson.
We did an interview not too long ago,

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so a few months ago. Um, but this is gonna be different.

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It's gonna be a formal, structured
debate. It's gonna be timed.

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Chases our moderator, So, Chase, do you want to flip a coin

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or something? Or how you want
to do it? Sure, we could

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flip a coin unless you guys one
do you guys wants to go flip a

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coin? All right? Cool?
All right, I got a cap here.

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Heads will be Bryson, tails will
be j Okay, it's heads.

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Bryson will go first. We'll do
um fifteen minute opening statements and then um

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seven minute rebuttals, and then open
floor for about an hour, and then

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a seven minute closing statements. Okay, hed, yourid went off. Whenever.

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Whenever you want to start, I
can, I can start the time.

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Also we already laugh. Okay,
time. Um. So from my

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opening statement, the first thing I
want to do is me and Jay sort

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of have trouble titling the thing because
I don't think I feel like I was

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missing each other. Um. But
it's about do we have to keep Tora

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or not? So I don't know
if I don't know if Jay as an

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Orthodox Christians, believes they do keep
Tora, but Tauras if anybody doesn't know.

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It's the first pobook, so Moses, and it's the law. Whatever

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the Bible says, the law is
referring to that when it says the prophecy

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in the writing is referring to the
rest of to knock now. Secondly,

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as a tour keeping Christian, I
know that might comes to shock. A

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lot of people don't believe Christians can
do. So I already understand I have

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the unpopular position in this scenario.
I'm used to it. It's what I

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do, It's what I'm known for. But somebody got to do it.

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But with that being said, I've
probably been in like a hundred of these

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types of debates. People minds rarely
change. People in a chat are gonna

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support whoever they are to support beforehand. Their mind's not going to change.

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So then the question is why am
I doing this? I'm really only doing

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this for the remnant, for the
people that have an open mind. I

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just want to hear somebody out and
hope I get the same respect which the

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flat I will with a moderator that
I gave Jay Dyer when he was on

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my channel. I'll let him tell
us about orthodox Christianity, without argument,

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without interrupting, without anything, because
you have the people are fair shot.

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Now, Jay Dyer, who I
liked, by the way, he's known

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for debating typically when it comes to
Christian history. He's very good at that

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period, point blank. But this
debate for me is really just one question,

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and there's a question that everybody knows
I'm going to ask, and I

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don't have to play a secret hand
because nobody can sufficiently answer the question.

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And Jay knows my question because I
asked them this publicly at an event.

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And it's about what Jesus said and
the Sermon on the Mount, and it's

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Matthew chapter five, verses seventeen,
but twenty one, with verse seventeen being

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one of the most popular things that
Jesus said that Christians take out a contest.

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Now when I asked them this in
person, let me just read the

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part until Heaven and nerth passed,
not one jot or two trying to know

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why has passed from the law until
all is fulfilled. And the verse clearly

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tells you that all beings can't be
fulfilled or accomplished until Heaven an Earth pass

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That's clear in the text, no
other way to interpret it. And Jay's

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response, I always remember at the
event was Luke twenty four to forty four,

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and I could be wrong, so
over he'll correct me in his opening

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statement, but he tried to say
that a little twenty four forty four.

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It implied that everything had already been
fulfilled. Now that is clearly impossible since

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Heaven and Earth hasn't passed yet,
which no Christian would say Heaven and Earth

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has passed, because second Peter wants
who have Heaven and Earth passed? And

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then we know Heaven and Earth doesn't
pass until Revelation twenty one if that's a

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part of your cannon, But it
doesn't matter what you believe in. We

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know Heaven and Earth hasn't passed.
And the issue with this question is simple.

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If I'm not taking it out of
context, then Jesus said what he

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said. Now, let me predict
how typically these conversations go. You tell

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a Christian Matthew Files every teen to
twenty one. They attempt to first say

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it's out of context. We read
the entire context together and everybody knows I

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pretty much know what the sermon on
them out by heart, and they then

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can't say it's out of context.
And then they run to Paul. They

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go to Paul, and they try
to use Paul's up constantly to argue against

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Jesus because you couldn't take you couldn't
claim what I said about Jesuss out of

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context. That's a very dangerous thing
to do inherently, but it's so beautiful

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that the Bible warns us about these
types of people. And second Peter three

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sixteen, the Bible literally says ignorant
and unstable people will take Paul out of

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contexts and use them to their own
destruction. And Peter actually calls these people

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unscrupulous people that are attempting to make
you lose your firm commitment. And it

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tells you that, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard. So whenever

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people jumped straight to Paul to argue
with Jesus instead of confirming or denying what

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Jesus said, I find to be
very very interesting with Jay. I'm going

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to assume he's gonna go the more
historical route. Well, who gave you

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the Bible? H and and and
and and the Church has the correct interpretation

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and you can't interpret it without the
Church. Now, if I'm not mistaken,

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right, I know a bit about
Christian history, admittedly not as much

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about Jay Dyer. I'm more so
I know scripture, I know the Bible.

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But if I'm not mistaken, the
counsel, the first council for the

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cannon, and people don't know the
different cannons happened over different councils was the

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Council of Rome, if I'm not
mistaken, which was in the late three

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hundreds, which could be wrong.
That's based off memory, though late three

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hundreds. To find it interesting because
Iranius and papers last name PAPIs the Herropolis.

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They clearly affirmed the gospels. Matter
of fact, Iranius was pretty much

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argue with people that was trying to
say only one of the Gospels were accurate.

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He was already saying all four Gospels
is accurate. And that was hundreds

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of years earlier than any of these
cannons. So the scriptures are the scripture,

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And I felt that's a side argument. I felt it's a side argument

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because it has nothing to do at
the point if you believe that your church

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chose this cannon, and you need
to believe in what it says. So

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again, my main question is jesus
Sermon on the Mount Matthew five saving teen

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to twenty one. And I hope
this question will get answered, and I'm

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about to say it to y'all off
memory. Hopefully I'll get it correct.

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I did not come to abolish the
law or the prophets. I came to

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feel and Christians think fulfill means abolished, even though he clearly said otherwise.

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And then he says, for verily, I say, until you not one

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jotge or tittle, shall let no
wise passed from the law until all is

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accomplished. And then he says that
if you nullify one of the least of

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these commandments and teach others to do
the same thing, meaning teach others to

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nullify one of the least of the
commandments, then you will be called least

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in the Kingdom of heaven. This
is Jesus words, and this is talking

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about the future. So you can't
say this change when Jesus died on the

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cross, because Jesus is clearly giving
you something that's going to happen in the

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future. He said, but if
you teach keeping the commandments and teach others

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to do so, and keep keep
them yourself, you will be called great

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in the Kingdom of Heaven. For
verily I say unto you, your unless

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your righteousness succeeds that of the scribes
and Pharisees, in no case enter the

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Kingdom of Heaven. And then for
people that try to claim that he's only

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referring to the Ten Commandments, that
is impossible because then right after this he

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goes on to do what people call
it put a fence around the toil,

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or make the law more strict.
And in these things from the that he

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takes from the law, almost half
of them I'm not even in the ten

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Commandments to begin with. So obviously
he's referring to more than the Ten Commandments,

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which he made clear when he said
law or the prophets. Prophets are

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obviously after the law. This consists. This is what the to not consist

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of. So the context is very
clear, and I think this is an

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interesting thing. So my one question
is what did Jesus mean by that?

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If I'm taking it out of context. My second question is will you be

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called great or least in the Kingdom
of Heaven according to Jesus Christ? And

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I will yield the rest of my
time. I don't know how long I

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just went, and he went about
eight minutes, so you're you're crushing it.

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Yeah, right under eight minutes to
Jay whatever you want, you got

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fifteen minutes on the clock. All
right, yeah, thank you for coming.

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Let's let's get into my opening statement
before I address some of the points

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that Bryson made there. One thing
I would say is that the argument that

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I gave wasn't in the live event
from Luke twenty four. It was Luke

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twenty one, which locates the context
of everything that Jesus is saying in that

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chapter about the destruction of Jerusalem.
Because Luke's written for a gentile audience.

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It's referring to that time period,
that group of people standing in front of

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him. Jesus says they would see
all of these things fulfilled. And Luke

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is very important because his account of
the all of that discourse the destruction of

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Jerusalem is more specific for a gentile
audience explaining what's going on. So all

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those statements about not fleeing Jerusalem on
the Sabbath that I saw Bryson was kind

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of referencing on Twitter the other day, those are actually statements about the seventy

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eighty destruction of Jerusalem, a very
famous event that fulfills many of these Old

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Testament passages about as Jesus says,
all things written in the prophets will come

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upon this generation, that being the
generation that he was speaking to. This

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is why he says in so many
places that the Kingdom of God is in

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your midst. The Kingdom of God
is here, it is now, and

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the Kingdom of God has identified with
the Church in Matthew sixteen. So the

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Church is that kingdom. It's established
at Christ's Ministry. It's also established at

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the feast of Pentecost. And that's
interesting because if you look at Pentecost,

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it's another thing that proves this point. Because I feel strongly that if I

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were to read Joel, particularly Joel
two, about in the last days,

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I will pour out my spirit upon
all flesh, and your sons and daughters

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will see visions, etc. Bryson
in his Exegesis I feel like he would

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ascribe that to the end times,
much like he would describe Luke twenty one

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in Matthew twenty four to be explicitly
or solely about the last days. And

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yet Joel two is cited as fulfilled
in the event of Pentecost in Acts two.

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Again powerful proofs of what we call
partial pretorism, not full pretorism,

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which is the idea that everything mentioned
is fulfilled. Events like the bodily resurrection,

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events like the destruction of Satan,
death, and Hell being thrown into

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the lake of fire. It's that
are clearly those things have not been fulfilled.

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However, the destruction of the Temple, which is an immense redemptive historic

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event, is a fulfillment of multiple
Old Testament passes, particularly the warnings that

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Israel is given in the Law in
Deuteronomy and in Leviticus about having the Covenant

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curses poured out upon them if they
reject God. Their final full rejection of

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God was in the rejection of the
person of God himself, the Logos,

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when he became incarnate. As John
says in John One, in the beginning

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of what in the beginning was the
Word, the word was with God the

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word was God. That means that
Christ is the second person of the God

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had eternally begotten to the Father.
As John says later in that chapter,

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that even when he was walking around
with us, he was in the bosom

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of the Father. And that's why
every chapter in the Book of John goes

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on to describe either references to the
deity of Christ or to the deity of

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the Father, of the Son and
the Holy Spirit. So the Book of

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John is a powerful testament in the
New Testament to the full divinity of Christ.

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And I say that because and I
don't I know the debate is not

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about the Trinity. But Bryson does
not accept the doctor of the Trinity.

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And that matters because we're going to
see who gave the laws, Jesus that

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gave the law to Moses on Mount
Sinai, and Jesus himself makes this very

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clear in the Book of John.
Before we get to that, I do

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want to talk about Bryson's statement about
the history of things. If Bryson is

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going to argue that his chief content
and is Matthew five, the Beatitudes and

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so forth, this assumes, yes, that Matthew is an authoritative text.

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But there's nothing in Matthew's Gospel that
tells us that Matthew, the Disciple of

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Christ wrote the book. And certainly, as authorship is important, it does

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matter. In fact, it matters
a big It matters a lot whether or

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not he wrote that, because he's
supposedly an eyewitness and a person there in

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the presence of Christ seeing all of
this stuff. And so Bryson is correct

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to cite Pappius. Papius is the
earliest witness that we have that it's Matthew

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the Disciple. That's an patristic tradition, that's not something in the text itself.

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And so Bryson, without realizing it, is relying on the tradition and

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testimony of the church fathers, whom
he does not accept. In fact,

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he even cited Arenais, and I
had to get Ariannais off the shelf because

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in Arenais is against Herresees who was
a bishop in the Orthodox Church. By

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the way, if you look at
book three of Arnais's treatise, written in

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one eighty AD, Arnais goes into
depth talking about the tradition of apostolic succession

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in the churches and how it's necessary
to look to churches like the Bishop brig

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of Rome as well as others,
to see that Apostolic tradition is inseparable from

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the Gospel, the deposit of faith, and thus knowing the scriptures. So

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Bryson just admitted that he has to
have referred to Orthodox saints and church fathers

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in the first few centuries to even
know that Matthew is part of the Bible.

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So you'll notice this book here that
we call the Bible. It's made

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up of many many it's a book
of books. But this didn't fall out

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of heaven into Bryson's lap. It
didn't come to him in a vacuum.

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It came to him historically. It
was transmitted and passed down much the same

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way that the Jews transmitted and passed
down not just the written Torah, but

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also the oral Torah, which Jesus
refers to insights in many places. And

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so yes, my first challenge is
that Bryson can cite passages, but I

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need to know why on his view, I'm supposed to accept that he even

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has access to or a basis to
know the right canon if he's divorced it

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from the Church who made the decision
to put that together and he's correct that

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one of the early witnesses to the
cannon that we accept is the African councils

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that are confirmed by Rome, the
Canons of Carthage, the African Code as

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it's called, that eventually passed into
for the Orthodox Church what we call the

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Council of Trullo, and it's appended
together in the fifth and sixth Councils according

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to the Seventh Council. So the
Seventh Council basically says we accept Troullo and

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all of those canonical lists. And
that is in this book of the chaft

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set. You can see it right
here where it lists, oh, none

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of the books that a Protestant accepts, or it just give me a list

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of the duocanonical books that Protestants don't
accept. Why does that matter, well,

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because it just simply shows that Protestants
of all forms, all shapes,

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have the wrong canon. They look
to the Church of History to give them

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accurate tradition when it comes to people
like Pappius or Iranaus in regard to citing

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the Gospels. But why does Bryson
care what Ernais says? When Bryson doesn't

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accept anything else. Ernais says as
a bishop in the Orthodox Church, what

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we might cite any other church father
that disagrees. So what if one or

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two church fathers cites this or that
gospel, that doesn't tell me which one

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I'm supposed to follow. Especially if
there's conflicting canons, and there absolutely are,

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we can give multiple lists of canons
in the first six centuries of the

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Church. Now let's get back to
the Bible itself. The Torah was given

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to Moses. But in the Torah, disputes are assumed to be something that

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will occur for Israel, and so
Moses set down a pattern of how disputes

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would be solved. This is the
elders, this is the high priest,

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etc. Who are put in place
to make to judge. Ultimately at the

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beginning, it's Joshua in the seventy
elders in numbers eleven Deuteronomy twenty one.

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This is why we see, for
example, the laying on of hands of

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Joshua in numbers twenty seven. This
laying on of hand and transmission of authority

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in the Old Testament is precisely what
Jesus does as the founder of the true

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spiritual Israel. The fulfillment of historic
Israel in appointing apostles, which he says

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in Luke ten sixteen, he who
hears you, here's me. That means

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that succession of authority that Christ has. That by the way, he gave

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the law to Moses, because he's
the one that spoke to Moses. And

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John five. Especially when we get
through seven, eight and nine, when

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Jesus is disputing with the Pharisees.
His argument against them is that no one

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saw the Father in the Old Testament. In Exodus, when there was the

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manifestation of God at Mount Sinai,
that was not the Father. He says,

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it was me. Moses wrote about
me, Moses and Abraham believed in

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me. So he is identifying himself
with the manifestation in the burning bush.

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If you go back to Exodus three
and compare that with Exodus twenty three,

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you will notice that God says,
I will put my name, my divine

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name of godway in my angel,
the messenger Angel of the Lord that speaks

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in the bush that goes before Israel. In the book of Exodus. Likewise,

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Moses goes up on the mountain,
and according to Paul and Second Corinthians,

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he eats a meal with God now
no one sees the Father. So

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Moses wasn't eating a meal with the
Father. He's eating a meal with the

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Lord, the Angel of the Lord, the second person of the Godhead,

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who is a Theophany in the Old
Testament in many, many, many passes,

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dozens of passages. We can go
back to Genesis, the appearance to

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Abraham Genesis eighteen. Abraham has a
meal with God. He's identified as like,

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yahweigh the Lord. How do you
eat with God? Oh, it's

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just like Moses going up on the
mountain and eating the meal with God.

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Who what God? Jesus ergo.
Jesus is the one giving the covenantal meal

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there and the law there. This
is the giving of the Mosaic law.

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The point of this is that the
law, all of it, has a

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telos, a purpose that Bryson has
missed. It is not can I talk

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the Gentiles into believing in the ceremonial
commands and all six hundred or whatever commands

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of the Torah, because we know
that that can even literally be kept because

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there is no temple. In fact, Genesis forty nine predicted that when the

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Messiah comes, the scepter will depart
from Judah. Then comes Shiloh, to

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whom the nations will look. That
means one of the signs of the coming

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of the Messiah is the removal of
the dividic lineage. It ends. It's

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done why because he is the fulfillment
of the Davidic covenant, He's also the

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fulfillment of the Noea covenant. The
Noah covenant is key because it shows us

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that righteousness is not had by Mosaic
law. It doesn't mean the Mosaic's law

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is bad. It has a purpose. But Bryson has again missed that purpose.

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Because Jesus is the living Torah,
the living Law, the New Moses.

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You see what about those commands?
Do we keep those commands? Yes?

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We do. In fact, there
are multiple references throughout the New Testament

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to all kinds of ceremonial commands.
Many of those ceremonial commands are cited by

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Paul. For example, in Corinthians, when he says not to muscle an

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ox when he's treading out the grain. How does Paul apply that? Paul

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specifically says, is it oxen?
God is concerned about Ergo? No,

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he wrote that for our benefit,
he says, and the meaning of the

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passage. The spiritual meaning of this
ceremonial command, this penal sanctioned command in

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the Book of Deuteronomy is that ministers, who are symbolized by the oxen should

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have right to the field that they
work. They should be able to eat

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from the work that they do.
In other words, ministers can make money.

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That's Paul's point. Multiple times we
see these principles applied in the New

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Testament of ceremonial passages that are not
done away with. They are still kept.

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It's just that Bryson doesn't understand how
they're kept. They're kept in a

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different way than he thinks they're kept, and in fact, his understanding of

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the Jewish interpretation itself is wrong.
The Mosaic Law was not given to the

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nations to the gentiles. It was
given to the people of Israel for them

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to teach the nations about the true
spiritual pedagogy and meaning of the commands.

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Paul says in Corinthians that uncircumcision and
circumcision neither of these things matter. The

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keeping of the law is what matters. So you see later additions like circumcision

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and Mosaic law do not make a
person righteous, especially when the question is

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the inclusion of the gentiles. Bryson
may not be aware of this, but

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his dispute, his question was already
solved in Acts fifteen, when they had

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the counsel describing and deciding how gentiles
could come into the Church, into the

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Covenant and be made right with God. And the decision is that what we

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ought not require anything more than was
required of Noah. If Noah could be

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made righteous before God before circumcision and
before the ceremonial laws given to Moses,

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then gentiles can be in Christ on
the basis of the pattern of the covenant

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given un to Noah. It's a
very simple argument. And what did Jesus

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say? Here he who hears you, here's me. The Holy Spirit is

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given an acts to and Pentecost.
That's the spirit that Jesus said in John

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sixteen he would send that would guide
the church into all truth. And so

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unless he wants to himself, Pitt, Paul and the apostles against what Jesus

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said, then he needs to understand
holistic interpretation of the whole Bible. We

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don't just read passages or chapters without
understanding the context of the entire Bible.

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Is that it one minute. The
entire Bible gives us a holistic picture and

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message from Genesis throughout the covenants.
Although we have to the New Covenant,

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you can't understand the totality of the
Bible without each one of those successive covenants.

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Paul says in Corinthians that every one
of those promises, covenant promises is

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yea in Christ. Christ is the
Telos of the law. That's why we

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don't have a temple. That's why
we don't do animal sacrifices. And so

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if Bryson had read Hebrews or Galatians, he would know that the things that

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he thinks are still applicable are actually
fulfilled. And I would go even further

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and say that not only does he
not keep them, the Orthodox Church actually

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does still keep many of these commands
because we have temples. Hebrews thirteen says

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that we have an altar in the
churches, that those that serve at the

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Tibernack will have no right to eat. That means they're still an altar.

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Peter says that we are the Melkizadekian
priesthood priests in Christ, we still have

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a priesthood. Orthodox churches are called
temples we still have temples. Awesome.

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And before we get into rebuttals,
Jay, could you pin Bryson? I

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think because I was the last to
speak that the other camera was on me,

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so we do apologize for that,
and then UM, I don't know

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how it works on zoom, but
if we could pin Bryson and then um,

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once we get that done, just
let me know and uh, and

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then we can get I saw him
on the screen. I saw him,

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so he should be fine, perfect
Bryson. Whenever you want to start.

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You have seven minutes for rebuttal only
seven minutes, oh man, I wish

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I could use some of the time. I yield it, but it's okay.

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Don't be seven minutes. If anybody
goes back to my open est statement,

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he debated precisely and exactly how I
said, he will he never answered

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the question about Matthew five, and
he's not gonna tell you why he didn't

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answer it, but because he can't
now. He went on to imply,

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he said a little twenty one,
and I recently watched the video of when

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I asked the question at the live
event, and you definitely said Luke twenty

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four. I could possibly be mistaken. We could fact check that, but

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you kept talk about things being fulfilled. Well, let's go back to Matthew

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five seventeen to twenty one, which
I knew was not going to get answered.

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This is why you made this thing
about the whole bibble and jump straight

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to Paul, because this is what
people typically do to try to use Paul

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to argue with Jesus. Jesus said
until heaven and earth passed, not one

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job or tittle shout letting no wise
passed from the law until all is accomplished.

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So if heaven and nerve has not
passed, everything can't be accomplished.

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That's very simple. And this is
red letters, this is Jesus himself,

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and that is in context. So
you have an issue if you claim these

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things were fin field has heaven and
earth passion, and then you talked about

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these things about the Temple of destroy
so we can't keep a lot of the

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commandments. That's absolutely correct. You
are correct. This is the reason that

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Orthodox Jews do not give animal sacrifices
in the temple. But your issue is

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the to not have already discussed this
in Joseiah and Second Samuel, rendering the

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bulls is replaced with prayers of the
lips, because there was already a time

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where the temple was destroying, so
God had already pit things in place for

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these things to be happened. But
that doesn't then nullify the commandments that are

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applicable to people outside of obviously priests, because a lot of the commandments do

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require a temple, but a lot
but a good amount of them also don't.

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But that doesn't change anything out that's
changed anything at all. So when

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you say, Jesus, the fulfillment
has heaven and nerve passed, yet Jesus

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said that's required. So unless you
can say that, you still have an

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issue on your hand. And I'm
sure that's gonna get avoided again. And

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the reason I brought up Papius and
Uranius, it's not because I care much

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about their judgment. I'm so glad
you brought it up exactly how I thought

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you would, because you admitted that
pay this was the earliest, and we

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know that because of a Rainius,
because we don't have fragments of writings from

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papists. And you have one issue. He didn't say he the one who

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said it was written by Matthew.
A matter of fact, what papists said

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is that the Book of Matthew was
originally written in Hebrew, and people translated

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the best they could. Now there's
arguments over what he meant by that,

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because we don't have the full excerpt
of what he said. But what that

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shows is people already thought it was
Matthew. They've been dogs Matthews. This

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is very early, as you already
said, so to claim that we need

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the church to tell us what it
is that would be interesting since people was

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already reading the Gospels. They were
already doing it even before papists. Obviously

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that has to be the case.
So I find that very very interesting.

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Well, you talk about the twenty
that's not the debate, don't really care.

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You brought up, dude around to
me twenty eight and twenty nine.

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I don't know if you knew them
was the exact versions you were bringing up.

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But the last vest of twenty nine
said the hidden things belonged to the

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Lord, but revealed things belong to
us and our children forever that we fulfill

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all the words of this Torah,
or follow all the words of this Tora.

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That's once again off memory. So
I probably got a word or two

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wrong, and you said, Matthew
twenty four has already happened. But I

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think you switched it up a little
bit later and said that something's happened something

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didn't, which I'm glad you did, because Matthew twenty four literally talks about

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Christ's return, So unless you're saying
Jesus has already came back, that also

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wouldn't make sense scripturally. Now,
as far as you taken Paul clearly out

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of context. You talked about Galatians
and he bought to ask fifteen and assumed

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I don't know these things. Very
sad because as fifteen is about Paul helping

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the Gentiles turn to Christ. And
I like that you brought up Noah because

405
00:33:42.599 --> 00:33:45.359
if you see the few laws that
they had to do themselves, you need

406
00:33:45.400 --> 00:33:49.960
to figure out what that is in
oral tradition. That's like to talk about

407
00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:52.440
so much. But what was beautiful
about the Book of Acts, because all

408
00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:55.880
these questions that you have are already
answered. Paul himself later in Acts gave

409
00:33:55.880 --> 00:34:00.599
it animal sacrifice for himself and other
and this is after Jesus died of rolls

410
00:34:00.599 --> 00:34:04.759
on the cross, and this is
after Paul came to have accepted Jesus.

411
00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:07.320
So now you have to explain to
me what you said is true while Paul

412
00:34:07.360 --> 00:34:13.360
gave an animal sacrifice. Secondly,
they were trying to kill Paul because they

413
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:16.639
people were saying that Paul was teaching
against the law. Paul then corrected them

414
00:34:16.639 --> 00:34:22.960
and said Paul paula corrected him and
said he taught the law perfectly. So

415
00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:25.440
the claims that ch'all make about Paul
or are really literally the claims that was

416
00:34:25.480 --> 00:34:29.480
made in Acts if you read it, which I find, which I find

417
00:34:29.559 --> 00:34:32.000
hilarious. And then you brought up
Relatians and a problem with when people read

418
00:34:32.039 --> 00:34:36.840
Paul. The reason why Peter has
to tell you how long I got?

419
00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:42.639
You have about two and a half
minutes. Okay, hopefully that's enough.

420
00:34:42.920 --> 00:34:45.320
Just thought me. I'll just ended
no matter. But the reason why a

421
00:34:45.360 --> 00:34:47.440
lot of people ignorantly take Paul out
of context. I'm not saying to be

422
00:34:47.519 --> 00:34:52.239
disrespectful. That's the literal language Peter
used, is because with Paul, you

423
00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:53.599
can't read one line here in one
line there. You have to read all

424
00:34:53.679 --> 00:34:58.039
five chapters of Galatians. You have
to read all chapters of Romans. And

425
00:34:58.159 --> 00:35:00.840
what that means is Paul is literally
the one in Romans two that said,

426
00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:04.599
it is not the heroes of the
law that are righteous before God, but

427
00:35:04.679 --> 00:35:07.719
it is the doors of the law
that are justified. And then he went

428
00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:12.719
on to tell you that the Gentiles
kept the law without having the law,

429
00:35:12.760 --> 00:35:15.039
but they kept the requirements of the
law. And he said it was written

430
00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:19.360
on their hearts, which is a
reference to Jeremiah thirty one. And then

431
00:35:19.400 --> 00:35:22.079
you talk about the latitions. You
need to know what he means, because

432
00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:24.679
if you read Thelations two, he
says, you have died to the law

433
00:35:25.199 --> 00:35:30.119
and now you live to God.
What does live to God mean? Because

434
00:35:30.119 --> 00:35:34.320
Paul talks about not sinning? How
can you sin if there's no law?

435
00:35:35.079 --> 00:35:39.719
Sins transgression of the law that law
of Moses. And Paul explains this in

436
00:35:39.840 --> 00:35:43.880
Roman six. If you need to
understand what it means, I can help

437
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:45.119
you out Romans. And by the
way, I have nothing on my scranything.

438
00:35:45.159 --> 00:35:49.559
This is all of memory. By
the way, Roman six he literally

439
00:35:49.599 --> 00:35:52.239
tells you what he means. When
he says you're not under the law or

440
00:35:52.239 --> 00:35:54.719
you're dead to the law, he's
literally saying you don't sin anymore. He

441
00:35:54.800 --> 00:36:00.199
explicitly states this in Roman six.
The reason you are not under the law,

442
00:36:00.199 --> 00:36:02.519
because he said the law is the
knowledge of sin. So if you

443
00:36:02.679 --> 00:36:06.760
die the same way Christ died,
which is what Paul says verbating him in

444
00:36:06.840 --> 00:36:10.920
Roman six, then you are also
resurrected in the same way Jesus was resurrected.

445
00:36:12.559 --> 00:36:15.239
And what that means is you no
longer sin, your body parts are

446
00:36:15.320 --> 00:36:20.719
no longer used for unrighteousness. Sin
no longer reigns in your immortal body.

447
00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:23.239
Then he literally tells you that's what
not being under the law means anymore.

448
00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:27.280
That's why he also said, like
I said a few chapters earlier, that

449
00:36:27.880 --> 00:36:30.880
the Gentiles kept the law without having
it. So I don't know if you

450
00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:34.239
understand what Paul is saying, But
I hope, I hope, I hope

451
00:36:34.280 --> 00:36:42.360
the bad oh Jay, you have
seven minutes on the clock. Yeah,

452
00:36:42.440 --> 00:36:49.639
I mean the level of reading comprehension
here and understanding what has been argued is

453
00:36:50.199 --> 00:36:53.960
it's it's sad, it's I feel
like it's just flying past people's heads here.

454
00:36:54.119 --> 00:37:00.719
So I didn't say that everything was
fulfilled in the temple being destroyed.

455
00:37:00.559 --> 00:37:05.639
I said that heaven and earth passed
away in the sense of Christ coming in

456
00:37:05.719 --> 00:37:08.320
judgment. That coming in judgment is
what he mentions in Luke twenty one in

457
00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:14.039
Matthew twenty four to the generation standing
in front of him that they would see

458
00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:17.440
these signs. And yeah, I'm
very familiar with the covenant curses in Deuteronomy

459
00:37:17.440 --> 00:37:22.280
and Leviticus, and those curses are
applied in the Book of Revelation, because

460
00:37:22.320 --> 00:37:27.960
every one of those covenant curses rolls
out upon the city that's identified in the

461
00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:30.880
Book of Revelation as the place where
our Lord was crucified. So, in

462
00:37:30.920 --> 00:37:36.280
other words, the text that you're
talking about are referring to actually the destruction

463
00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:38.360
of Jerusalem. They're not talking about
the end of the world, but they

464
00:37:38.400 --> 00:37:44.159
have a fulfillment also mirrored wise at
the end of the world. And we

465
00:37:44.239 --> 00:37:47.840
know this from the abomination of desolation, which is cited in the Book of

466
00:37:47.920 --> 00:37:53.039
Daniel and in the Maccabees. Did
you know that that abomination of desolation already

467
00:37:53.079 --> 00:37:58.360
happened? Did you know it already
happened? And so when Jesus is referring

468
00:37:58.400 --> 00:38:00.800
to it, he's saying that the
same thing that happened in the destruction of

469
00:38:00.840 --> 00:38:04.760
the temple the first time, and
in the defilement of the temple of the

470
00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:08.280
Maccabees, that it's going to happen
again in this day. This generation will

471
00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:13.599
not pass away until all of these
things are fulfilled. So you just simply

472
00:38:13.639 --> 00:38:16.559
ignored and didn't listen to anything that
I said. And you don't comprehend partial

473
00:38:16.599 --> 00:38:24.000
pretorism because you confuse it with full
pretorism. When the Book of Hebrews describes

474
00:38:24.320 --> 00:38:28.559
the heaven and earth, the heavens
and earth being rolled up like a scroll

475
00:38:28.599 --> 00:38:34.480
and passing away, the book is
describing it from the citations and texts like

476
00:38:34.559 --> 00:38:38.559
Isaiah, and it's saying that when
the temple is removed, that will be

477
00:38:38.599 --> 00:38:42.920
the fulfillment of these things. You
see, the whole Book of Hebrews is

478
00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:49.079
about the passing away of the Mosaic
administration in Israel. And you don't even

479
00:38:49.119 --> 00:38:52.239
apparently know that in seventy a d. That's what happened. It was destroyed

480
00:38:52.599 --> 00:38:59.719
and the Covenant went to the Gentiles. Jesus says in the Gospels that this

481
00:39:00.039 --> 00:39:05.400
nation will lose the kingdom and it
will go to the Gentiles. That's the

482
00:39:05.480 --> 00:39:07.760
Gentile Church that occurred in the first, second, third, fourth, fifty

483
00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:10.840
sixth centuries, which, by the
way, you don't have any connection to

484
00:39:12.079 --> 00:39:15.039
your sect, doesn't exist back then. You don't have any connection to any

485
00:39:15.079 --> 00:39:19.440
of those people because your church is
in a church, a made up thing,

486
00:39:19.760 --> 00:39:22.199
you see. But Jesus said that
the gates of Hell would not prevail

487
00:39:22.239 --> 00:39:27.559
against his kingdom. His kingdom was
set up in the apostles that he established

488
00:39:27.800 --> 00:39:30.599
who he said, he that hears
you, here's me. Who do you

489
00:39:30.639 --> 00:39:37.800
think ordained Irenaeus and Papius. Jesus's
apostles ordained these men, that succession comes

490
00:39:37.840 --> 00:39:43.519
from them. And you said,
again, I'm glad that you cited Irenaeus

491
00:39:43.559 --> 00:39:46.320
and Papius because they cited the gospels. That wasn't my challenge to you.

492
00:39:46.760 --> 00:39:51.360
The challenge was why, on your
view are we supposed to care what Papius

493
00:39:51.400 --> 00:39:54.840
or Ironaus, people that you think
are heretics, say. Why would a

494
00:39:54.920 --> 00:40:00.400
heretic tell us the Bible and its
books? In your view? Tell me

495
00:40:00.440 --> 00:40:02.639
that I want to know when we
get to the next section, because it's

496
00:40:02.679 --> 00:40:07.880
pick and choose. It's arbitrary.
Paul says, the definition of a heretic

497
00:40:07.880 --> 00:40:10.599
as a person that picks and chooses. Your whole approach here is, I'm

498
00:40:10.599 --> 00:40:15.880
going to pick and choose the sections
of Jesus that I think are truth because

499
00:40:15.880 --> 00:40:20.760
it aligns with my presuppositions. And
it's actually you that sets Paul against Jesus.

500
00:40:20.800 --> 00:40:25.159
What I said harmonizes Paul and Jesus. We can't take verses or sections

501
00:40:25.280 --> 00:40:30.039
or people and pit them against one
another. Paul did a sacrifice because the

502
00:40:30.079 --> 00:40:34.719
temple was not destroyed yet, and
that was what we call a transition period

503
00:40:35.360 --> 00:40:39.719
that's done when the temple's done.
No longer do Jews or Christians worship in

504
00:40:39.760 --> 00:40:44.719
the temple because it's gone. That
was the sign that's fulfilled in Daniel nine.

505
00:40:45.159 --> 00:40:50.079
Daniel nine says when the Messiah comes, the temple's gone, eternal righteousness

506
00:40:50.119 --> 00:40:54.079
comes in. But in the New
Testament we have references to sacrifices that continue

507
00:40:54.119 --> 00:41:00.480
on, like the sacrifice of the
eucharists, which is in every Orthodox Church,

508
00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:05.440
which has all of those things that
you think you need, temple sacrifice,

509
00:41:05.599 --> 00:41:08.239
incense, in estaments, all of
these things that you're really into,

510
00:41:09.039 --> 00:41:14.400
which are in the Old Testament,
they're in the Orthodox Church. It is

511
00:41:14.440 --> 00:41:17.679
the continuity with those things. You
don't have any continuity with any of that.

512
00:41:17.960 --> 00:41:23.760
You're relying again on our saints.
Papias are an as for getting the

513
00:41:23.800 --> 00:41:29.039
cannon itself, or you don't have
any criteria for why I'm supposed to accept

514
00:41:29.079 --> 00:41:35.320
Matthew, your criteria was because Papias
cited it. So on what basis is

515
00:41:35.360 --> 00:41:38.079
one church father citing something? Tell
me that that means it's inspired in part

516
00:41:38.079 --> 00:41:43.519
of the Bible. The Bible was
decided as a canon centuries later. So

517
00:41:43.599 --> 00:41:46.599
all of your citations of Paul or
Revelation or any of this stuff is simply

518
00:41:46.599 --> 00:41:52.000
your misunderstanding. It's totally out of
accord with anything in the first thousand years

519
00:41:52.039 --> 00:41:55.280
of the Church. So if you
don't have any representatives of your views in

520
00:41:55.320 --> 00:42:00.920
those time periods, then you're what's
called a sectarian, you're called a heretic.

521
00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:05.000
And I know the Old Testament very
well. I gave you multiple verses

522
00:42:05.039 --> 00:42:08.079
about the deity of Christ in the
Old Testament, Jesus giving the Law to

523
00:42:08.159 --> 00:42:12.039
Moses. You ignored all that because
you don't want to go there. You

524
00:42:12.039 --> 00:42:15.519
don't want to go into Theophanes because
that shows the purpose of the law.

525
00:42:15.400 --> 00:42:20.679
If there's a temple rebuilt, are
you gonna go to Israel and offer animal

526
00:42:20.719 --> 00:42:23.599
sacrifices. I know that you don't
think it's necessary. I'm very aware of

527
00:42:23.639 --> 00:42:28.719
what rabbinical Judaism did, and I
know it goes back to Ezra and when

528
00:42:28.760 --> 00:42:31.400
there wasn't a temple, they said, we can offer it sacrifices a prayer.

529
00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:37.239
Okay, So then you're admitting that
it's not absolutely necessary for salvation that

530
00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:43.000
we do animal sacrifices. But you're
missing the obvious point of entire books of

531
00:42:43.079 --> 00:42:45.559
the New Testament, which is that
you're an apostate and a heretic if you

532
00:42:45.679 --> 00:42:51.559
go back to doing those things.
That's explicitly what Hebrew says. It says

533
00:42:51.599 --> 00:42:54.760
you've lost your salvation. Now in
your case, I'm not knocking you on

534
00:42:54.800 --> 00:42:59.519
a personal level, but you're not
at all even in the church. You

535
00:42:59.559 --> 00:43:02.639
have no connection to the branch,
to the vine, to the sheepfold,

536
00:43:04.360 --> 00:43:07.719
to the tree, to the Covenant. The Covenant is given to the gentiles.

537
00:43:08.119 --> 00:43:13.360
Jesus says in that passage about the
destruction of Jerusalem, all these things

538
00:43:13.360 --> 00:43:15.719
will come upon this generation, the
people standing in front of him. You

539
00:43:15.760 --> 00:43:20.480
will see the temple raise to the
ground. He says, that happen in

540
00:43:20.559 --> 00:43:25.079
seventy eighty. That removes all of
your stupid proof texts about fleeing on the

541
00:43:25.119 --> 00:43:30.159
Sabbath and doing this and that the
temple is the Church. That's why Peter

542
00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:35.519
says the Church is the temple.
Jesus is the cornerstone. The marriage Supper

543
00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:39.119
of the lamb that's described in Revelation
five and six is the divine liturgy.

544
00:43:39.199 --> 00:43:44.400
It's the Eucharist. What does John
c when he looks into heaven vestiments in

545
00:43:44.599 --> 00:43:50.920
sense, priests, that's the Orthodox
Church on Earth. All right, we're

546
00:43:50.920 --> 00:43:57.039
going to move into We're going to
move into one hour of open floor debates

547
00:43:57.039 --> 00:44:00.280
get contentious, obviously, I expect
some interruption. That's totally fine. I'm

548
00:44:00.280 --> 00:44:04.239
gonna stay out of it. If
things get to the point where you guys

549
00:44:04.239 --> 00:44:07.719
are talking over each other though,
and we can't fully hear either of you,

550
00:44:07.760 --> 00:44:10.239
I will step in back and forth. Is totally fine. You guys

551
00:44:10.239 --> 00:44:14.840
have one hour um for open dialogue, and I do want to remind people

552
00:44:14.840 --> 00:44:17.119
there will be a thirty minute Q
and a UM at the end of the

553
00:44:17.159 --> 00:44:21.840
debate, so you guys can super
chat YEP, super chat in UM.

554
00:44:21.880 --> 00:44:24.519
The stream labs link is in the
description as well as in the chat.

555
00:44:25.880 --> 00:44:30.239
There you go, guys, so
it's not it's not two minutes each and

556
00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:35.639
they're doing it okay, real quick, do you want me to how do

557
00:44:35.639 --> 00:44:37.440
you guys want to do? Those
two minutes each? Then I thought it

558
00:44:37.480 --> 00:44:42.199
was total total open flo. Okay, cool? Well then Bryson, go

559
00:44:42.199 --> 00:44:45.119
ahead, okay, um. I
find it funny. I wrote a two

560
00:44:45.159 --> 00:44:47.480
things we said. Now you talked
about reading comprehension. You said, I'm

561
00:44:47.519 --> 00:44:51.760
not listening to you, which is
funny because objectively speaking, you're not listening

562
00:44:51.800 --> 00:44:53.800
to me because everything you have stuff
you claim that. I thought, I've

563
00:44:53.800 --> 00:44:57.480
already explained it to you. The
Paul. I find it funny, and

564
00:44:57.480 --> 00:45:00.000
I did this on purpose. It's
funny, Paul scriptures you brought up.

565
00:45:00.079 --> 00:45:01.519
I explained it to you. Not
only did you not debunk it. I

566
00:45:01.559 --> 00:45:05.599
did that as a show of faith
in hopes that you would answer my question

567
00:45:05.599 --> 00:45:08.639
about Matthew five and you still avoiding
it as I predicted. What happened?

568
00:45:09.320 --> 00:45:14.159
Also answer, I answer, you
just didn't like it. No, you

569
00:45:14.559 --> 00:45:16.199
never answered because I asked you it
has heaven in her past? And oh

570
00:45:16.199 --> 00:45:19.360
a matter of fact, I said, heaven nern Did you you said heaven

571
00:45:19.360 --> 00:45:23.320
ned? Did? Yeah? I
do apologize for that. You said heaven

572
00:45:23.400 --> 00:45:27.159
NERD. Did pass show me a
scripture that said heaven nerf has already passed.

573
00:45:27.239 --> 00:45:30.599
Show me any Bible scripture that says
that period. Yeah, so the

574
00:45:30.639 --> 00:45:34.199
Book of Hebrews in Hebrews one,
and I'm saying that the Book of Hebrews

575
00:45:34.280 --> 00:45:39.440
is about the removal of the earthly
administration of the temple. Show me when

576
00:45:39.440 --> 00:45:42.880
the Bible says heaven and nerth has
passed. I just said the Book of

577
00:45:42.920 --> 00:45:45.239
Hebrews, Hebrews one talks about heaven
and earth passing away. The book is

578
00:45:45.280 --> 00:45:49.719
about the removal of the temple.
So I just want to be clear.

579
00:45:49.880 --> 00:45:52.599
Are you claiming that Hebrews one said
heaven and nerth has already passed away.

580
00:45:52.760 --> 00:45:57.159
It says the removal of the temple
is the sign of heaven and earth passing

581
00:45:57.199 --> 00:45:59.559
away. I want, I want, I want the words heaven and ner

582
00:45:59.639 --> 00:46:02.039
pa has passing away, because in
second the Bible works, that's how you

583
00:46:02.119 --> 00:46:08.599
think it is, though, it's
that's how think it works ever literal okay,

584
00:46:08.639 --> 00:46:14.719
So so we only believe what's explicit
in the Bible right right now.

585
00:46:15.159 --> 00:46:17.480
The question your best answers to say, you can't find it, and that

586
00:46:17.599 --> 00:46:23.599
and nothing I said in Hebrews one, it's about the removal of the heavenly

587
00:46:23.639 --> 00:46:30.960
administration. The whole book is about
that. So tell me the verse,

588
00:46:30.079 --> 00:46:34.519
and he was he was pretty short
chapter. Tell me the verse and Hebrews

589
00:46:34.559 --> 00:46:37.599
one that says heaven and Earth has
already pased. Which verse says that heaven

590
00:46:37.639 --> 00:46:40.400
and earth will pass away. It'll
be rolled up like a scroll. Yes,

591
00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:43.679
heaven will pass away. Its talk
about so talk about the future.

592
00:46:43.840 --> 00:46:46.079
No, it's not that's not well. Hebrews was talking about the destruction of

593
00:46:46.119 --> 00:46:50.519
the temple, which is still in
the future. He so real quick though,

594
00:46:50.920 --> 00:46:55.519
Heaven and being rolled up is what
is meant in the temple administration being

595
00:46:55.559 --> 00:46:59.519
destroyed, because the temple is heaven
on earth. You understand, it's a

596
00:46:59.599 --> 00:47:01.639
symbol of the whole universe, the
three heavens. Yeah, so I find

597
00:47:01.639 --> 00:47:07.760
it interest you're not so. No, that's a two minute back and forth,

598
00:47:07.760 --> 00:47:10.000
though I didn't talk for too minutes
at all. Yeah, that's why

599
00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:14.920
I'm confused, Like, how do
you guys want to do that? Snap?

600
00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:16.679
Oh, snap hold on that.
Okay, nice about you all up?

601
00:47:17.280 --> 00:47:22.079
Uh, but yeah, which is
cool, But just just realise you

602
00:47:22.079 --> 00:47:25.360
want to read this bottle verse second
Peter ten. But the day day of

603
00:47:25.440 --> 00:47:30.880
the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away

604
00:47:31.559 --> 00:47:35.480
for a roar, and the elements
will be destroyed with intense heat, and

605
00:47:35.519 --> 00:47:38.639
the earth and its works will be
discovered. And then it tells you again

606
00:47:39.280 --> 00:47:45.119
later in second Peter beautifully written how
it told you that heaven and nerf you

607
00:47:45.320 --> 00:47:46.719
need to be looking for a signe
of a new heaven and earth. And

608
00:47:46.800 --> 00:47:50.679
then it tells you again a revelation
of twenty one that's talking about when Jesus

609
00:47:50.679 --> 00:47:53.360
coming back. So there's no it
will be fine. You just that there's

610
00:47:53.360 --> 00:47:55.159
no verse that says and that'd be
great, though, No, I just

611
00:47:55.199 --> 00:48:00.039
think you have a misunderstanding based on
not having a canonical interpretation of the entirety

612
00:48:00.039 --> 00:48:04.599
of the message. The entirety of
the message is about the symbolism of the

613
00:48:04.639 --> 00:48:07.719
temple being taken away and being destroyed. So you understand that when Paul talks

614
00:48:07.760 --> 00:48:14.199
about the base elements, that's what
Hebrews is talking about. In the base

615
00:48:14.280 --> 00:48:17.480
elements of the administration of the temple's
circumcision, the show bread, all of

616
00:48:17.519 --> 00:48:22.679
those things are being taken away,
rolled up, and destroyed in seventy eight

617
00:48:22.760 --> 00:48:24.800
D. That's what the Book of
Revelation is about. Guess what. That's

618
00:48:24.800 --> 00:48:29.440
why Revelation says these things are soon
to come to pass. You know,

619
00:48:29.519 --> 00:48:32.719
John wrote that to actual churches in
Asia Minor. Do you understand that like

620
00:48:32.800 --> 00:48:36.639
some of those churches are still with
us today, they still exist, they're

621
00:48:36.719 --> 00:48:40.960
Orthodox churches like in Ephesus. Right, So John wrote a letter to a

622
00:48:42.119 --> 00:48:45.400
church in his day in Ephesus.
I believe he's writing before seventy eight D.

623
00:48:45.719 --> 00:48:47.719
And he says the things in the
Book of Revelation are soon to come

624
00:48:47.719 --> 00:48:52.719
to pass. And it describes a
destruction of a city where Jesus was crucified.

625
00:48:53.639 --> 00:48:58.719
That's Jerusalem, that happened in seventy
eight D. So I want to

626
00:48:58.719 --> 00:49:02.639
go back to in my cross examination
the question of your explanation as to why

627
00:49:02.679 --> 00:49:07.599
we're supposed to accept Matthew, because
everything you say relies on in your argument

628
00:49:07.639 --> 00:49:09.960
here on Matthew, you said Poppius
and Ernais, why am I supposed to

629
00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:13.559
care what Papius and Erna said?
How does that tell me it's inspired and

630
00:49:13.559 --> 00:49:20.039
an authoritative? Uh? I can
answer that again like I answered it before.

631
00:49:20.119 --> 00:49:22.519
You know the reason I brought it
up. The reason I brought up

632
00:49:22.559 --> 00:49:27.559
papist and Ranius specifically, is because
how you admitted and I've already said this,

633
00:49:27.599 --> 00:49:30.840
by the way, but you already
can see at the point that Papias

634
00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:36.119
is the earliest um earliest person to
even talk about the Goths. That is

635
00:49:36.159 --> 00:49:37.719
early tell us that this authoritative and
supposed to be in the cannon. That

636
00:49:37.719 --> 00:49:42.480
doesn't prove anything. You're just assuming
he's earlier that talked about it, and

637
00:49:42.679 --> 00:49:45.960
you're amitting that Papias does that tell
me it's supposed to be in the Canada

638
00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:51.360
Scripture. You're admitting that Papias said
that Matthew was originally written in Hebrew and

639
00:49:51.400 --> 00:49:54.320
people interpreted the best they could correct. You're just stating facts about the book.

640
00:49:54.360 --> 00:49:57.400
I want to know how I'm supposed
to know that that means it's in

641
00:49:57.440 --> 00:50:00.519
the cannon and authoritati. So as
as I said previously when I brought it

642
00:50:00.599 --> 00:50:04.360
up the other time, the reason
why that's important is not because he's claiming

643
00:50:04.440 --> 00:50:07.760
something's authoritative or not. It's because
if the way is read and of course

644
00:50:07.800 --> 00:50:10.719
we have fragments, as I said
before, we don't have the full excerpts,

645
00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:14.599
but because of that we know that
it was already viewed that way before

646
00:50:14.679 --> 00:50:17.480
him. He's we who you keep
appealing to things that don't actually tell me

647
00:50:17.559 --> 00:50:22.519
the criteria. How do you know
that's the right criteria? That's what the

648
00:50:22.599 --> 00:50:25.679
right criteria? That what is the
right criteria for candidicity, for authoritation,

649
00:50:25.760 --> 00:50:30.920
for authoritative RELI This is not about
the candidate. This was before any candida.

650
00:50:30.920 --> 00:50:34.119
Well, I'm telling I'm telling you
that. So so I'm telling you

651
00:50:34.239 --> 00:50:37.079
that if Papists was the earliest person
to talk about how do we know that

652
00:50:37.199 --> 00:50:42.840
early? Makes it? That?
You just keep assuming the argument it's circular.

653
00:50:42.880 --> 00:50:45.960
No, you're not listening. You're
not listening, and I don't know

654
00:50:45.039 --> 00:50:49.719
how say you're not understanding what epistemic
criteria is. I just want to know

655
00:50:49.840 --> 00:50:52.039
how you know that. What's the
basis for that? You just keep saying,

656
00:50:52.039 --> 00:50:53.440
well, it's earlier. Wait,
well, no, I said that

657
00:50:53.639 --> 00:50:58.519
papist You you said this, that
Papists was the earliest person talking about the

658
00:50:58.519 --> 00:51:01.760
gospels. Correct, No, to
talk about Matthew being the disciple of Jesus

659
00:51:05.280 --> 00:51:09.840
who talks about the Gospels earlier than
Papists. It doesn't matter because none of

660
00:51:09.920 --> 00:51:13.679
these things tell me the criteria to
know what makes So why not? Why

661
00:51:13.719 --> 00:51:16.079
not? Why not just admit what
you've already admitted. I don't even I

662
00:51:16.119 --> 00:51:19.719
don't even know why this conversation has
to be this because you're avoiding an obvious

663
00:51:19.840 --> 00:51:22.480
question. I want to know how
you'm answering your question. You're not You're

664
00:51:22.480 --> 00:51:29.000
relying on Orthodox Church. You're relying
on Orthodox Church tradition. Uh. Why

665
00:51:30.480 --> 00:51:37.559
I've answered that probably three times.
That's not answer again? No my answer,

666
00:51:37.639 --> 00:51:39.519
and I will actually go DV.
You can like hold my two minutes

667
00:51:39.800 --> 00:51:43.199
across themination. I'll try to answer
this question one more time for him.

668
00:51:43.719 --> 00:51:46.159
Um, the reason I brought Papius
up. You asked me a question about

669
00:51:46.159 --> 00:51:49.360
why I brought him up, and
I'm about to tell you again why I

670
00:51:49.440 --> 00:51:51.480
brought him up. You don't have
to rehearse it. We all know what

671
00:51:51.559 --> 00:51:55.480
happened. You're just avoiding the question. You know what. Never mind,

672
00:51:55.599 --> 00:51:58.920
I don't care about it no more. Now I try to do it.

673
00:51:59.639 --> 00:52:01.519
It's okay. We can go to
my two minutes fill of busting to burn

674
00:52:01.599 --> 00:52:08.039
out the time and not answering the
question how can I burn out time?

675
00:52:08.079 --> 00:52:10.599
If I purposely tell him to pause
of time, it don't start my time?

676
00:52:10.639 --> 00:52:13.760
How can I How can I burn
it out? We'll go to Bryson's

677
00:52:13.800 --> 00:52:15.679
two minutes for for his cross exam, and then we'll go back to you,

678
00:52:15.800 --> 00:52:17.679
Jack, Sure, thank you,
And I'm just going back to the

679
00:52:17.760 --> 00:52:21.639
same thing. I reread Hebrews One, just make sure I wasn't missing nothing,

680
00:52:21.679 --> 00:52:22.599
even though, like I know the
book of Hebrews and I knew I

681
00:52:22.719 --> 00:52:29.440
wasn't literally nut zilch absolute this zero
and Hebrew wants even implies that heaven and

682
00:52:29.519 --> 00:52:31.039
Earth has passed. So I will
ask you again, and all I want

683
00:52:31.119 --> 00:52:34.760
for you to admit the truth so
we can have a notest conversation and honest

684
00:52:34.840 --> 00:52:38.679
dialogue. Can you admit that nowhere
in the Bible doesn't say that heaven and

685
00:52:38.719 --> 00:52:42.719
Earth has already passed? Can you
at least admit that, Senson. I'm

686
00:52:42.760 --> 00:52:45.320
not saying you you can't believe that
it has passed. I'm just saying,

687
00:52:45.360 --> 00:52:50.599
can you admit that nothing in the
scripture says heaven and earth has already passed?

688
00:52:57.239 --> 00:53:00.519
Sorry, I was muted there.
So Hebrews One says heaven and earth

689
00:53:00.599 --> 00:53:04.320
will pass away. Your work will
not pass away. They will perish,

690
00:53:04.440 --> 00:53:07.679
You will grow, They will grow
old like a garment, like a cloak.

691
00:53:07.880 --> 00:53:09.960
You will roll them up. So
I just cited the passages that you

692
00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:14.000
said wasn't there. It is there, and I'm saying that it's about the

693
00:53:14.039 --> 00:53:16.239
destruction of the temple. Now you
have a different interpretation, and I'm just

694
00:53:16.280 --> 00:53:21.800
simply pointing out your interpretation Number one
doesn't make any sense because you pitted Paul

695
00:53:21.840 --> 00:53:24.440
against Jesus. But you didn't tell
me why I'm supposed to follow Matthew.

696
00:53:24.760 --> 00:53:29.159
Why as Matthew authoritative in your it's
my time, it's my time. You

697
00:53:29.159 --> 00:53:31.159
can you can react your question again. It's like I react my um bass

698
00:53:31.239 --> 00:53:35.079
as heaven will pass. Like,
bro, this is not like you've been

699
00:53:35.199 --> 00:53:42.719
unnecessarily difficult there you're not aware of
basic positions and exitgen what Let me repeat

700
00:53:42.760 --> 00:53:45.360
myself again. I say, when
somebody said it wasn't even there, I

701
00:53:45.519 --> 00:53:50.239
cited you the text. It's no
one. I say. Listen what I

702
00:53:50.320 --> 00:53:52.239
say it is. You can have
your belief in your interpretation or something.

703
00:53:52.679 --> 00:53:57.159
I'm just asking, can you admit
that nothing in the scripture says that heaven

704
00:53:57.199 --> 00:54:00.360
and Earth has already passed? You
just know any interprets the Bible, only

705
00:54:00.440 --> 00:54:05.679
heretics do that where they think that
literally a phrase has to be explicitly expelled

706
00:54:05.719 --> 00:54:07.679
out according to you. I'm not
saying that has to be your criteria.

707
00:54:07.679 --> 00:54:10.679
I'm just asking do you ask you
did? You said? That's what you

708
00:54:10.760 --> 00:54:15.880
said. Your argument is that it
has to be explicitly there Where where does

709
00:54:15.920 --> 00:54:17.639
the Bible? I'm asking you a
question, where does the say anywhere?

710
00:54:19.639 --> 00:54:22.880
It does say it. I just
gave you the text. Hey, bro,

711
00:54:23.039 --> 00:54:30.599
you can, you can? You
can minutes, but real quick,

712
00:54:30.840 --> 00:54:35.000
when when it's someone's two minutes on
their time to do the cross examination,

713
00:54:35.239 --> 00:54:37.639
they can. Let's make it so
that they can interrupt and they can redirect.

714
00:54:37.960 --> 00:54:42.280
Um. And then it'll flip flop
to where when the next person's time

715
00:54:42.360 --> 00:54:45.000
is going, they can interrupt and
they can redirect. I'm just forgetting who's

716
00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:47.679
going. That's that's all good.
UM, It's it's you going now,

717
00:54:47.840 --> 00:54:51.440
Jay, two minutes on the clock. Yeah. So I'm gonna put my

718
00:54:51.559 --> 00:54:54.880
question again to you in a very
simple way. You tell me on your

719
00:54:55.159 --> 00:55:02.760
view, why is the Book of
Matthew authoritative and inspired? In your view,

720
00:55:04.880 --> 00:55:07.119
given that the way that we know
that, the only way we know

721
00:55:07.239 --> 00:55:15.119
that, it's via tradition that comes
from the Orthodox Church. Well, I

722
00:55:15.280 --> 00:55:20.159
think you're having a preconceived notion right
here, meaning I've never said anything about

723
00:55:20.239 --> 00:55:22.760
bad about tradition, So I find
that weird that you brought it up.

724
00:55:22.800 --> 00:55:29.800
But you appealed to papias. Okay, you appealed to papists, Okay,

725
00:55:29.880 --> 00:55:36.440
just as I said, did not
reason. The reason I brought up papists

726
00:55:37.000 --> 00:55:43.480
is because it proves that even before
papists people already viewed the Book of mass

727
00:55:45.320 --> 00:55:47.920
That doesn't prove anything. It just
proves that it doesn't prove that it's authordative

728
00:55:47.920 --> 00:55:52.000
and inspired. That people believe that
people believe false gospels are athwardative and inspired.

729
00:55:52.159 --> 00:55:55.840
Why don't we follow that's that that's
part of iranious arguments that people are

730
00:55:55.880 --> 00:56:00.320
believing in false gospel, So correct, I'm not disagreed with that. How

731
00:56:00.360 --> 00:56:05.119
do we know? I just said
it, so you didn't. You're not

732
00:56:05.400 --> 00:56:08.840
because the earliest is you don't have
an answer. It's because the earliest that

733
00:56:09.039 --> 00:56:13.400
we can go back in history that
we can ask to see what are all

734
00:56:13.440 --> 00:56:19.079
to ask? Churches were already using
that, begging the question, how do

735
00:56:19.159 --> 00:56:22.599
we know that that's the right criteria
for canonicity because an old church did it?

736
00:56:22.199 --> 00:56:28.480
So no, we know because the
guy again at the Gospels were already

737
00:56:28.599 --> 00:56:31.679
viewed as inspired by begging the question. You're asking the question of what the

738
00:56:31.760 --> 00:56:37.679
gospels are, and you're citing the
gospels. That's a fallacy. What is

739
00:56:37.679 --> 00:56:45.719
the fallacy again? Question? Question? Are you added in? I feel

740
00:56:45.719 --> 00:56:49.239
about you are citing gospels? About
how we know what the gospels are?

741
00:56:49.480 --> 00:56:52.960
That's a fallacy of circulations. Now, Bryson, it's your time for your

742
00:56:54.039 --> 00:56:58.480
gospels. Dude. No, I
think you I think you listened to responding

743
00:56:58.480 --> 00:57:07.119
you don't actually listen to what you
say is just bad argument. It's not

744
00:57:07.360 --> 00:57:12.559
understand all right, all right?
Cool? So um again now because I

745
00:57:12.639 --> 00:57:15.920
got two minutes, right, so
I'm trying to make it quick because he

746
00:57:15.000 --> 00:57:19.440
could he had no response from Matthew
Files has him the twenty one outside of

747
00:57:19.519 --> 00:57:22.400
saying that heaven and never has already
passed with no evidence of that, which

748
00:57:22.440 --> 00:57:30.559
I find fairly Um. Yeah,
but that's that's not what that's not what's

749
00:57:30.599 --> 00:57:32.639
not what you ask. But but
you don't know anything about it. I

750
00:57:32.719 --> 00:57:37.199
mean, just let's let Bryson ask
his questions and then it's your time.

751
00:57:37.199 --> 00:57:42.880
You can interrupt. Okay, so
he rehearsing relations Yeah, cross example is

752
00:57:42.960 --> 00:57:45.800
leading to a question. By the
way, Revelation twenty one tells you when

753
00:57:45.880 --> 00:57:47.519
heaven an air will pass, and
this involves Jesus coming back. So my

754
00:57:47.599 --> 00:57:52.119
next question is that you believe Jesus
already came back. Yes, he came

755
00:57:52.199 --> 00:57:54.760
in judgment upon the nation of Israel
and seventy eight d, which is what

756
00:57:54.800 --> 00:57:59.000
he describes in Luke twenty one.
You understand Luke twenty one says that it

757
00:57:59.039 --> 00:58:01.440
will happen to this narration, that
he will come in judgment with the Roman

758
00:58:01.559 --> 00:58:06.159
nation to destroy the temple. Okay, So now again somewhere, so you

759
00:58:06.280 --> 00:58:08.360
believe that Christ has already came like
a beef in the night? This view

760
00:58:08.519 --> 00:58:12.199
if you had listeners instead of trying
to talk so fast. I said that

761
00:58:12.280 --> 00:58:15.440
earlier, but I repeat what you
said and wrote it all down, and

762
00:58:15.519 --> 00:58:19.239
I literally, I literally quoted you. I literally quoted you saying heaven if

763
00:58:19.239 --> 00:58:21.719
it's already passed, I'm trying to
and I'm trying to get to the point

764
00:58:21.719 --> 00:58:24.280
of why you believe that. So
all just be quie a quick second.

765
00:58:24.519 --> 00:58:29.079
So I think our main issue is
you believe that Christ has already came back

766
00:58:29.079 --> 00:58:32.000
like a beef in the night.
And I'm what you don't even I think

767
00:58:32.039 --> 00:58:36.840
that is all right. Bro,
I honestly don't even care to one about

768
00:58:36.960 --> 00:58:39.639
Kyloe. You have thirty seconds on
the clock. I don't go. You

769
00:58:39.719 --> 00:58:43.119
can yet it, bro, I
have I don't even care you can you

770
00:58:43.119 --> 00:58:45.360
can yet it. This is not
this is not fruitful, okay. Um.

771
00:58:45.440 --> 00:58:49.320
I think the audience from the chat
audience is finding it fruitful. We

772
00:58:49.400 --> 00:58:51.639
can go to Jay, um,
but I think a lot of people in

773
00:58:51.679 --> 00:58:53.920
the audience are interested in hearing your
point of view, Um, and Jay's

774
00:58:53.920 --> 00:58:57.840
point of view. I think they
are finding it fruitful. Um. Jay,

775
00:58:58.280 --> 00:59:00.000
when whatever you want. You have
asked you why the Book of Matthew

776
00:59:00.119 --> 00:59:04.320
is supposed to be a gospel that
we accept and that it's authoritative. You

777
00:59:04.400 --> 00:59:07.079
said, because there was early mentions
of gospels. That's begging the question.

778
00:59:07.199 --> 00:59:13.000
That's a fallacy. Yeah. So
again, as I said, if you

779
00:59:13.039 --> 00:59:15.320
think at the earliest evidence we have
of these things, which a lot of

780
00:59:15.400 --> 00:59:21.559
times do come from bishops, because
Iranius was a bishop and Papists was also

781
00:59:21.639 --> 00:59:23.000
a bishop. Um, this is
I don't understand. I keep bring up

782
00:59:23.039 --> 00:59:27.159
tdition like I talked against that in
this in this conversation, which I haven't

783
00:59:27.880 --> 00:59:32.239
because of that I know because of
Papists that Matthew was already viewed. So

784
00:59:32.360 --> 00:59:39.159
you inspired papists, So you appealed
to the tradition, right, I just

785
00:59:39.239 --> 00:59:43.480
said that. Okay, So the
way that you know that that book is

786
00:59:43.519 --> 00:59:45.679
in the Bible is our tradition.
You don't find out a problem for your

787
00:59:45.760 --> 00:59:52.119
view, No, because it was
obviously viewed as inspired before papists. That's

788
00:59:52.199 --> 00:59:57.519
that's it's not viewed as inspired by
anybody in your made up group. Your

789
00:59:57.559 --> 01:00:00.639
group didn't exist. Where where was
your group in any of this time?

790
01:00:01.280 --> 01:00:05.840
My group? Yeah? What group
you speaking of? Whatever your group is,

791
01:00:05.960 --> 01:00:08.000
I don't know. So I mean, how are you asking the question

792
01:00:08.000 --> 01:00:12.519
if you don't know what you're sacked? Where was it in the first seven

793
01:00:12.599 --> 01:00:15.519
centuries? What would you call them? A sex? And I say,

794
01:00:15.639 --> 01:00:17.519
I don't what I believe you you
don't name it. So you're telling me,

795
01:00:19.320 --> 01:00:21.360
okay, well, based on what
I believe, my sick is the

796
01:00:21.400 --> 01:00:25.199
people that I don't know, um
follow Jesus in the Bible representatives of those

797
01:00:25.239 --> 01:00:30.480
people in the first I mean,
they were all there. And the fact

798
01:00:30.519 --> 01:00:32.039
is the people that you have any
reference to prove that people in that time?

799
01:00:32.360 --> 01:00:36.519
Yes, yes, and your name
is Paul. Paul kept saying,

800
01:00:36.559 --> 01:00:38.400
because the second, third, fourth, sixth seven, I'm talking about the

801
01:00:38.519 --> 01:00:43.840
Originals. Where is the church?
You're a group? Paul keeps having there.

802
01:00:44.000 --> 01:00:46.199
Okay, so it died. Do
you think the church died that Paul

803
01:00:46.239 --> 01:00:49.519
keeps having yes, something, I
just want to know. How about Peter?

804
01:00:49.840 --> 01:00:52.760
How about James? I mean,
this is me and Terro getting your

805
01:00:52.840 --> 01:00:58.159
group. So there's not your group
gave you. It doesn't exist for seven

806
01:00:58.239 --> 01:01:00.000
centuries. No, if you have
to do your research. People that were

807
01:01:00.039 --> 01:01:04.519
called John asking you because you did
the research on your just I just I

808
01:01:04.639 --> 01:01:07.119
just, I just I want to
know you tell me where. Don't tell

809
01:01:07.159 --> 01:01:10.159
me to do the research in a
debate you're supposed to bring the research.

810
01:01:10.199 --> 01:01:15.679
I just I just answered. That'll
be time on this. Bryson. You

811
01:01:15.760 --> 01:01:20.400
have two minutes for your cross examination
of Jano. You can even give him

812
01:01:20.440 --> 01:01:22.960
my next two minutes. But I
already I already answered the question. I

813
01:01:23.039 --> 01:01:28.639
said you haven't answered I did.
I said, you ain't answered shit,

814
01:01:28.760 --> 01:01:31.800
dude, So let me ask a
question where you said you said go look

815
01:01:31.880 --> 01:01:36.360
it up? Where is your group? Where's an example? This is why

816
01:01:36.440 --> 01:01:38.639
you need to talk lesson where is
the example. Okay, because if you

817
01:01:38.679 --> 01:01:43.159
actually quiet down for a bit,
if you let me finish my statement,

818
01:01:43.199 --> 01:01:49.719
you would have heard me say you
have done. You said, go do

819
01:01:49.840 --> 01:02:00.159
some research. You said, go
do some research? Where was your group

820
01:02:00.199 --> 01:02:07.960
in those centuries? So pure silence, right, I don't even want you

821
01:02:08.000 --> 01:02:09.960
ask the question, cause you don't
even care if somebody answers it or not.

822
01:02:10.039 --> 01:02:14.039
You didn't answer. I don't let
people not answer. And just ram

823
01:02:14.280 --> 01:02:19.519
I did answer. You Just you
trying to deflect because you got pinned down.

824
01:02:19.559 --> 01:02:22.400
You want to make it and I
didn't answer. Clearly, I clearly

825
01:02:22.440 --> 01:02:28.400
answered your question. I heard talk
so much to God every time. That's

826
01:02:28.440 --> 01:02:31.880
not That's not the only thing I
said. Where is your group and those

827
01:02:32.119 --> 01:02:36.079
It's a simple question, quick,
matter of fact matter. If I will

828
01:02:36.159 --> 01:02:37.360
use my I will use part of
my two minutes when his hi minute is

829
01:02:37.440 --> 01:02:40.159
up, uh to answer his question
for him without him in a round.

830
01:02:40.199 --> 01:02:46.079
Go ahead, go ahead and google
your group in those centuries. Hurry up.

831
01:02:46.920 --> 01:02:49.440
I don't have to. I don't
have to google in the things a

832
01:02:49.440 --> 01:02:51.320
matter of fact, I had I
haven't. I haven't had to look up

833
01:02:51.360 --> 01:02:53.960
at the book, up the cell. Yeah, you're an amazing genius at

834
01:02:54.000 --> 01:02:58.159
this. We all know how smart
you are, but you can't answer basic

835
01:02:58.320 --> 01:03:00.599
questions because in my two minutes,
it's you gave up your last two minutes.

836
01:03:00.639 --> 01:03:05.079
You said, Jays, thirty more
seconds on this two minutes, and

837
01:03:05.280 --> 01:03:07.639
you know you don't need it,
don't need to give give up time or

838
01:03:07.639 --> 01:03:09.119
anything. I'm pausing it right now, real quick. I know that things

839
01:03:09.199 --> 01:03:14.840
get contentious. That's totally fine.
Um, these are serious things you guys

840
01:03:14.880 --> 01:03:16.280
are talking about. The audience is
getting a lot from it. So I

841
01:03:16.400 --> 01:03:20.320
do think it's fruitful to engage as
best as we can. And Jay,

842
01:03:20.360 --> 01:03:22.840
you have twenty more seconds left on
your cross exam before we go back to

843
01:03:22.920 --> 01:03:27.440
Bryson. Where was anyone that believes
your views in the second, third,

844
01:03:27.519 --> 01:03:30.880
fourth, or sixth seventh centuries?
They were always there from the Bible loan

845
01:03:30.920 --> 01:03:35.800
word. That's not a source that
dude, Are you serious? Do you

846
01:03:35.960 --> 01:03:37.760
really think that that was an answer
to you have no evidence for it.

847
01:03:37.840 --> 01:03:42.199
You just said there. They have
a lot of evidence that where's some size,

848
01:03:42.280 --> 01:03:45.360
where's some sources site something? I
will when your time is up,

849
01:03:46.280 --> 01:03:50.440
all right? That is that is
time. M Bryson. You have two

850
01:03:50.480 --> 01:03:52.519
minutes on the clock. Okay,
can you pause me at my one minute

851
01:03:52.559 --> 01:03:55.199
Martin, I'm I'm actually used a
minute of mine to answer his question.

852
01:03:55.960 --> 01:03:59.599
Um, okay, all right.
So like I said, like I said

853
01:03:59.639 --> 01:04:00.960
before, the reason say, if
you do your research, you should have

854
01:04:01.000 --> 01:04:03.639
just stopped talking and let me finish
what I was saying. My point of

855
01:04:03.679 --> 01:04:06.920
saying that if you do your research, they recalled what people call Nowaday's Jewish

856
01:04:06.960 --> 01:04:13.440
prisons have always existed from Biblical time
onward. Some people view them ass Nazarenes,

857
01:04:13.480 --> 01:04:15.920
not the current Nazarenes, but they
have literally always existed. A sect

858
01:04:15.960 --> 01:04:21.039
of followers of Jesus that kept the
laws of tour has literally always existed.

859
01:04:21.880 --> 01:04:25.239
And the evidence is, like I
said before, I mean literally in the

860
01:04:25.320 --> 01:04:30.559
Bible, since every single apostle that
existed practice exactly like how I do,

861
01:04:30.719 --> 01:04:34.400
which I find quite funny. But
even afterwards this is a sad a matter

862
01:04:34.400 --> 01:04:38.400
of fact, there's a lot of
church file that's writings actually speaking against these

863
01:04:38.440 --> 01:04:43.079
people, calling them Judaeazers. And
you know that as a great history buff

864
01:04:43.760 --> 01:04:46.639
yourself. So that was my answer, which means I did answer your question.

865
01:04:46.719 --> 01:04:49.159
If you don't like the answer,
it's none of none of my problem.

866
01:04:49.280 --> 01:04:53.079
But I did answer it very clear
for and this wasn't my answer,

867
01:04:53.159 --> 01:04:57.000
but you was talking too much.
Now from my question to you, I

868
01:04:57.079 --> 01:05:01.840
really don't have anymore because you don't
really um care about honest answers. Uh

869
01:05:02.119 --> 01:05:04.920
yeah, so go after motives,
yeah, because that's all you have left

870
01:05:04.920 --> 01:05:09.440
because you don't have an answer.
Yeah, so you you never you didn't

871
01:05:09.440 --> 01:05:13.000
answer. You just said they were
there trying to rebut jay um yeah,

872
01:05:13.960 --> 01:05:15.559
race and go for these two minutes
you can, you can rebut in and

873
01:05:17.000 --> 01:05:21.440
not about motives. That that is
true. But let's let well, let

874
01:05:21.679 --> 01:05:25.559
we'll leave the interruptions. The only
person who can interrupt is a person who's

875
01:05:25.599 --> 01:05:29.000
time it is. Yeah, we'll
move forward that way. But I find

876
01:05:29.440 --> 01:05:31.760
I find an answeresting how he's now
crying about motives when he's made at least

877
01:05:31.760 --> 01:05:34.000
ten claims about me in the last
time. But I don't really care if

878
01:05:34.000 --> 01:05:36.239
I'm about to go tit for tat. That's not what a debate is supposed

879
01:05:36.239 --> 01:05:40.039
to be where I grown adults.
Uh so again, I mean, the

880
01:05:40.119 --> 01:05:42.960
only thing is he said Jesus already
came into beef them the night, and

881
01:05:43.199 --> 01:05:45.679
I guess that can be his interpretation. I can't tell him that can't be

882
01:05:45.719 --> 01:05:48.639
an interpretation. I think that is
like a gross interpretation of what the scriptures

883
01:05:48.679 --> 01:05:50.679
have to say. And I would
actually say he is in the minority on

884
01:05:50.840 --> 01:05:55.840
that, just like I'm in the
minority amost Christians of um of believing that,

885
01:05:56.079 --> 01:05:59.280
uh, we still have to keep
the law. Um. I really

886
01:05:59.280 --> 01:06:00.480
don't have any more question. I've
like that's the contention. I like we

887
01:06:00.559 --> 01:06:03.519
figured out what the issue is.
He believes Jesus came like a beef in

888
01:06:03.559 --> 01:06:05.519
the night. I don't believe that
has happened yet, So I mean,

889
01:06:06.039 --> 01:06:09.760
I don't understand what else that will
be to debate about. That's the crest

890
01:06:09.800 --> 01:06:13.440
of the issue right there. Okay, well, if if that's your time,

891
01:06:13.480 --> 01:06:16.159
will move over to Jay. Um. But the where the debate has

892
01:06:16.239 --> 01:06:20.280
gone, it seems like, is
asking the question of how we know,

893
01:06:21.039 --> 01:06:25.400
uh, the interpretation is correct and
things like that. That seems to be

894
01:06:25.480 --> 01:06:28.800
what Jay is trying to press.
So yeah, the issue that that's not

895
01:06:28.880 --> 01:06:30.199
the debate at hand, that has
intus to do with the debate that night,

896
01:06:31.920 --> 01:06:36.320
and I actually create is about who
who is keeping Actually I actually predicted

897
01:06:36.440 --> 01:06:42.280
that that would be his debate in
my opening statement it doesn't that, but

898
01:06:42.559 --> 01:06:45.000
but he can. He's not an
argument. It's my time, dude.

899
01:06:45.599 --> 01:06:46.800
And I was about to say,
if you keep asking questions, I would

900
01:06:46.880 --> 01:06:49.280
keep answer. I don't even care
about having any more time as I did,

901
01:06:49.360 --> 01:06:53.920
so just be grateful that even gave
you answer. Wasn't an answer,

902
01:06:54.000 --> 01:06:56.760
you just said they were there.
That means you lost the debate. Dude.

903
01:06:57.559 --> 01:07:00.000
You can't. You can't give an
actual You can't. I'm glad you

904
01:07:00.039 --> 01:07:03.159
think it's funny because everybody in the
audience is laughing at you too. Dog.

905
01:07:03.800 --> 01:07:08.280
You can Most people are on your
side because this is your YouTube channel.

906
01:07:08.519 --> 01:07:11.679
I don't really care about the audience
says, to be fair real quick,

907
01:07:11.679 --> 01:07:15.119
guys, it's just like the same. It's just like you interacting with

908
01:07:15.159 --> 01:07:18.880
Sam Shamoon. Dude, this is
would you say, chase and to be

909
01:07:18.960 --> 01:07:24.840
fair, guys, any in any
debate, I think the question of epistemology

910
01:07:25.039 --> 01:07:29.639
is going to end up being a
crux issue because either side, both of

911
01:07:29.679 --> 01:07:31.760
you are making knowledge claims about why
you believe what you believe. And I

912
01:07:31.840 --> 01:07:38.119
think it's an extremely pertinent question in
any debate, and you don't have any

913
01:07:38.159 --> 01:07:43.480
way to demonstrate that the church fathers
that you just said that referred to Judoyazers.

914
01:07:43.559 --> 01:07:45.599
You don't have any proof that they
have the same beliefs as you,

915
01:07:45.679 --> 01:07:48.159
because you don't know what those Judoyazers
believed. You just said that they were

916
01:07:48.239 --> 01:07:53.320
there in all those centuries. No, what I claimed was they practice what

917
01:07:53.440 --> 01:07:57.400
I practice. A matter of fact, you're they didn't because you just may

918
01:07:57.599 --> 01:08:01.280
you have They didn't. They can't. They they didn't. You're making You're

919
01:08:01.320 --> 01:08:06.920
just asserting that you can't assertion.
What is your evidence that in everyone?

920
01:08:08.960 --> 01:08:13.440
What is the evidence that not answer? Because you can't answer why you gotta

921
01:08:13.960 --> 01:08:16.000
because you did. You didn't answer
it, You just asserted it. Do

922
01:08:16.039 --> 01:08:20.119
you know the difference version? And
say, now he's got to talk over

923
01:08:20.239 --> 01:08:26.600
me because he knows he can't answer
this question because I'll be QUI just keep

924
01:08:26.640 --> 01:08:30.279
talking about. You're a felowbusterer.
Dude, you're a selfhist You can't debate.

925
01:08:30.359 --> 01:08:32.359
You don't even know what a circular
argument is. You said the gospel

926
01:08:32.439 --> 01:08:39.760
Matthew is the gospel because it's early
and decided by the gospels. How can

927
01:08:39.840 --> 01:08:44.600
you demonstrate time to cross examine why
that's why you won't hush? How can

928
01:08:44.720 --> 01:08:49.359
you demonstrate that the people that you
claim were your people in those centuries practiced

929
01:08:49.399 --> 01:08:55.399
all the things that you practice.
You can't demonstrate that. I can't.

930
01:08:55.479 --> 01:08:58.039
Again, you just misrepresented what I
said at the beginning. Was you typically

931
01:08:58.079 --> 01:09:00.239
do because you don't listen, you
talk too much. Um. Secondly,

932
01:09:00.640 --> 01:09:02.640
I've already told you. That's why
I say you have to do your research.

933
01:09:02.760 --> 01:09:06.359
If I make answer was my answer? You just asserted it. So

934
01:09:06.600 --> 01:09:11.119
you don't have evidence to back up
the assertion you said. They just were

935
01:09:11.159 --> 01:09:14.520
there. They believe what I believe. I have an amblematic I have an

936
01:09:14.520 --> 01:09:16.680
ample amount of evidence, and I
like how a debate you would bring the

937
01:09:16.720 --> 01:09:20.159
evidence. It might be a good
idea to bring evidence to a debate instead

938
01:09:20.199 --> 01:09:24.920
of asserting it. Do you ever
think about that? Well, you've already

939
01:09:24.960 --> 01:09:28.119
conceded to my point to be true. Down, I didn't anything. If

940
01:09:28.159 --> 01:09:30.119
you did, I admitted that the
church. You admitted that a lot of

941
01:09:30.159 --> 01:09:33.119
early church files talked about Judy I
was, didn't you? That doesn't mean

942
01:09:33.159 --> 01:09:35.319
they believe what you believe. You're
just assert What is it, Judia?

943
01:09:35.439 --> 01:09:38.119
What did the church file say,
JUDI? I was? Is? Do

944
01:09:38.119 --> 01:09:41.199
you think there's only one? Don't
lie either? You think there's a lot.

945
01:09:41.439 --> 01:09:44.159
Don't accuse me a lot. And
I just asked you you just got

946
01:09:44.239 --> 01:09:48.439
bond is you're so mad? What
is juda because you claim to have got

947
01:09:48.520 --> 01:09:51.960
his two minutes on the on the
clock for him to cross examine you know,

948
01:09:53.119 --> 01:09:55.640
Jake, thank you so dily man. You just claim somebody was mad.

949
01:09:55.640 --> 01:09:58.199
The only person mad here is clearly
that is it. You're the only

950
01:09:58.239 --> 01:10:02.199
person they sent a heated way.
No, you're debaying a very immature way,

951
01:10:02.199 --> 01:10:08.760
which is okay, that's called typical. Be quiet, be quiet and

952
01:10:09.199 --> 01:10:14.279
use his time and there on both
sides. Um, let's well, Bryceidy

953
01:10:14.279 --> 01:10:17.359
pause the clock will let Bryson can
talk. It should be directed ending up

954
01:10:17.399 --> 01:10:20.920
in some kind of point critique or
question to Jay Um, but you have

955
01:10:21.000 --> 01:10:25.159
to be there, you go.
It will be so since he's conceded that

956
01:10:25.239 --> 01:10:28.199
early church fathers uh, which is
why I like he was in evidence that

957
01:10:28.279 --> 01:10:30.920
he has to concede to talk about
Juday Ozers. I want him to explain

958
01:10:31.039 --> 01:10:35.920
to me what was the reason that
church fathers called uh this group of people

959
01:10:36.199 --> 01:10:40.399
Juday Ozers. Please answer that question. That's a term used for a lot

960
01:10:40.439 --> 01:10:45.359
of groups. Why did the church
fathers call a certain group of people,

961
01:10:45.399 --> 01:10:47.800
judaeis give me the why and ask
you who they called why they taught the

962
01:10:47.960 --> 01:10:53.279
necessity of the Jewish law to be
saved, which is the heresy that you

963
01:10:53.439 --> 01:10:57.279
repeat. That doesn't tell me that
in every one of those centuries those groups

964
01:10:57.359 --> 01:11:01.920
taught everything that you taught. So
you're just assuming, demonstrate, demonstrate the

965
01:11:03.880 --> 01:11:06.960
questions right now? Do you understand? Want to make it clear the reason

966
01:11:08.239 --> 01:11:11.960
the reason he just started over talking
people in a chat because he just conceded

967
01:11:12.000 --> 01:11:20.199
that I was one hundred. Because
you need to demonstrate, you need to

968
01:11:20.319 --> 01:11:24.800
demonstrate. Listen, judaizing, is
it one group? Do you think it

969
01:11:24.880 --> 01:11:28.359
was one group? Bro? My
belief system to keep the command is you

970
01:11:28.359 --> 01:11:30.279
just admitted that the church fathers have
always talked about the set of people that

971
01:11:30.359 --> 01:11:39.159
they talk about about dozens of groups. Quiet talk about pause. I did

972
01:11:39.239 --> 01:11:44.640
pause the clock to be fair when
um, when when rhetoric is is thrown

973
01:11:44.680 --> 01:11:47.359
at someone, they I think it's
fair that if it's the other person's time

974
01:11:47.399 --> 01:11:51.079
and they're throwing rhetoric at them,
that they can respond. But Bryce and

975
01:11:51.119 --> 01:11:54.359
you have the rest of the time
to ask your questions. You're perform your

976
01:11:54.399 --> 01:11:57.760
critiques. Thank you so I do
find anywi. It is the last thing

977
01:11:57.800 --> 01:12:00.439
I'm say. Helpel he doesn't interpret
me before I'm finished. The reason he

978
01:12:00.520 --> 01:12:02.560
has to answer out because I said
that people believe what I believe. He

979
01:12:02.640 --> 01:12:05.560
said, we don't know that.
So I pressed him on what a Judayaza

980
01:12:05.680 --> 01:12:10.039
was and he just admitted that a
Judayazer, according to the touch Fathers,

981
01:12:10.199 --> 01:12:14.000
was somebody that thinks, thus the
law was a necessity, which is quite

982
01:12:14.079 --> 01:12:15.680
clear that he knows what I believe, which I texted him it is my

983
01:12:15.760 --> 01:12:20.640
belief system. So he just admitted
that my group of people have always existed,

984
01:12:20.680 --> 01:12:25.199
which is why he's now about to
deflect and say, well, different

985
01:12:25.239 --> 01:12:29.399
types of judayazas, because he has
officially, objectively speaking, lost this point.

986
01:12:30.319 --> 01:12:35.399
I specifically said that your claim was
in every one of those centuries your

987
01:12:35.520 --> 01:12:41.439
group was represented. You then made
your group so broad as to be anybody

988
01:12:41.520 --> 01:12:44.640
that's a quote Judayazer. But that
term is used for even groups like the

989
01:12:44.800 --> 01:12:48.039
Nestorians. You're not a Nestorian,
so that's a broad term. I don't

990
01:12:48.039 --> 01:12:51.880
know why you're dancing over there because
you just got bodied. That's a broad

991
01:12:53.039 --> 01:12:57.319
term that doesn't prove anything. You
just assumed your point in every How do

992
01:12:57.399 --> 01:13:00.600
you know that in every one of
those centuries they held to the beliefs that

993
01:13:00.800 --> 01:13:08.319
you have as a body of beliefs, because my beliefs as them is simply

994
01:13:08.359 --> 01:13:11.920
to keep the commandments. I never
said every aspect. That's not true.

995
01:13:12.119 --> 01:13:16.720
That's just like just like that,
that's not just your belief system you have.

996
01:13:17.760 --> 01:13:20.840
You have a whole End Times philosophy
appended to your book, just like

997
01:13:21.000 --> 01:13:25.960
how early church fathers disagree with later
chang church fathers. Which is why exactly

998
01:13:26.000 --> 01:13:29.560
doesn't prove that your group existed in
those centuries. So you just got caught.

999
01:13:30.199 --> 01:13:32.399
You made it didn't call anything you
did. You made it so broad.

1000
01:13:34.439 --> 01:13:41.840
That's who judaizer is a general term, right, but it's used for

1001
01:13:41.920 --> 01:13:45.800
any group, and I said that
it was. I said that it's groups

1002
01:13:45.279 --> 01:13:49.640
that believe that the Mosaic Law had
to be kept. Do you understand that

1003
01:13:49.720 --> 01:13:55.560
amongst those groups there's dozens of groups, because it's not one group. That's

1004
01:13:55.600 --> 01:13:59.520
the your assumption that is just one
group, it's not. That's why my

1005
01:13:59.640 --> 01:14:02.600
question to you was, you're a
group in all those centuries. Your group

1006
01:14:02.760 --> 01:14:08.720
isn't just the belief of keep the
Mosaic Law. You got other beliefs.

1007
01:14:08.760 --> 01:14:14.880
Don't you like anti trinitarian? Right? So are you only united to the

1008
01:14:14.920 --> 01:14:18.880
anti trinitarian Judeo guysers? Yeah,
so he's not gonna answer, all right,

1009
01:14:18.880 --> 01:14:21.560
I pause the time. UM,
I don't, I don't um.

1010
01:14:21.960 --> 01:14:27.199
I don't think it's fair to either
of your time to um just just be

1011
01:14:27.359 --> 01:14:30.840
silent when being asked the question cross
exactly, he's not gonna answer when So

1012
01:14:30.039 --> 01:14:32.680
he does this game because if you
can give me one time, if you

1013
01:14:32.720 --> 01:14:35.560
can give me one time, he
has allowed me to fully answer a question

1014
01:14:38.680 --> 01:14:43.319
here the real quick. Both both
of you guys have done um plenty of

1015
01:14:43.640 --> 01:14:47.039
interrupting. It is a debate,
obviously not true. Not just become a

1016
01:14:47.119 --> 01:14:54.079
cap you interrupted. If y'all are
going to be disingenuous, not only care

1017
01:14:55.039 --> 01:14:59.119
everyone every single I don't think anyone's
trying to be you all. I have

1018
01:14:59.279 --> 01:15:06.359
not interesting like me. You have. I mute, I mute my mic.

1019
01:15:06.439 --> 01:15:11.359
When this man answers you question,
No, that's your sat the same

1020
01:15:11.399 --> 01:15:15.239
you don't answer. You stop,
wait, let's stop one second. One

1021
01:15:15.319 --> 01:15:20.560
second. When it's when it's your
time, you you can interrupt. It's

1022
01:15:20.640 --> 01:15:26.359
Jay's time right now, he can
interrupt and then that's called examination. Can

1023
01:15:26.439 --> 01:15:29.800
I answer a question if he interrupts, It's like when you mute it and

1024
01:15:29.880 --> 01:15:32.920
don't answer it. Dude, that's
you just gave every time, every gave

1025
01:15:33.039 --> 01:15:39.560
up you. First off, I
watched a million professor to the base and

1026
01:15:39.600 --> 01:15:43.079
crosses, and I don't care how
many of you answer. You got quiet

1027
01:15:43.079 --> 01:15:46.720
and doesn't matter fully answer the question. You didn't. You didn't. That's

1028
01:15:46.760 --> 01:15:50.640
not everybody. I didn't answer the
question. This is your deflection because you

1029
01:15:50.720 --> 01:15:54.800
can't answer this isn't it if you
have every one of your class have to

1030
01:15:54.840 --> 01:15:58.319
do this guy just talk to you
didn't answer it? Starting to get it's

1031
01:15:58.399 --> 01:16:02.079
it's starting to get to the point
just right that right now where the debate's

1032
01:16:02.119 --> 01:16:09.039
not moving forward because we're arguing about
the debate itself. Let let me moderate

1033
01:16:09.239 --> 01:16:13.520
the debate. Okay, let me
moderate the debate. That's a nice person's

1034
01:16:13.600 --> 01:16:16.000
time on cross exam. Dude,
got a fake look at this, fake

1035
01:16:16.119 --> 01:16:21.359
laugh, fake you're you're just a
typical person. You got quiet. That's

1036
01:16:21.399 --> 01:16:28.680
why you don't ask you a question. They're quiet because you're shook. Hey,

1037
01:16:28.760 --> 01:16:30.560
Jay diet J question, do you
honestly I do want to know if

1038
01:16:30.600 --> 01:16:33.760
you're just lying for no reason for
your audience. Do you believe that's all

1039
01:16:33.800 --> 01:16:38.399
you got? That's all you got
because you can't. You can't prove from

1040
01:16:38.720 --> 01:16:43.720
heretical group. Exam down. Just
let me talk for four seconds. No,

1041
01:16:43.880 --> 01:16:46.159
because you're you're just all you want
to do is talk about lying everybody.

1042
01:16:46.199 --> 01:16:49.760
Do you actually you embarrassed yourself?
Bro? Bro Jane? Do you

1043
01:16:49.880 --> 01:16:53.880
actually believe that the reason I'm muting
my mic is because I don't have answer

1044
01:16:53.920 --> 01:16:59.720
for your questions? Believe absolutely so? Can I? You can make faces

1045
01:16:59.720 --> 01:17:01.479
all you won't do it, that's
not that's not gonna do anything, and

1046
01:17:01.600 --> 01:17:05.359
you can get upset. But the
real issue here, bro Jay, this

1047
01:17:05.479 --> 01:17:14.159
wasn't me and you. I'm using
rhetoric. Rhetoric is fine. Let's keep

1048
01:17:14.199 --> 01:17:17.159
it about the actual points, not
meta. It's a joke. Why can

1049
01:17:17.239 --> 01:17:20.640
you answer that question? I can
answer every question you pas so far.

1050
01:17:20.800 --> 01:17:27.000
Everyone know you didn't you understand just
asserting things isn't an answer. Yeah,

1051
01:17:27.039 --> 01:17:29.079
And every time I try to explain
to you how it wasn't just in certain

1052
01:17:29.119 --> 01:17:33.720
things, you got upset and continue
interte united so judaizing groups in the fifth,

1053
01:17:33.800 --> 01:17:36.319
sixth, seventh century that we're say, Trin, is it my time

1054
01:17:36.399 --> 01:17:39.399
yet? Yeah, so he don't
want to answer, so this is what

1055
01:17:39.640 --> 01:17:42.880
Yeah, so he's not gonna talk. The time was paused. So I

1056
01:17:43.039 --> 01:17:46.479
want everybody to see that he won't
answer the specific question. I will answer

1057
01:17:46.520 --> 01:17:48.600
your question for the first mate of
mine, but not to interrupt. No,

1058
01:17:48.640 --> 01:17:50.800
no, no, that's not that's
not how That's not how it works.

1059
01:17:50.880 --> 01:17:55.399
So how cross examination works, how
it remains fair is that the person

1060
01:17:55.439 --> 01:17:58.960
who's time it is, when it's
your time rayson, you can interrupt as

1061
01:17:59.039 --> 01:18:03.000
much as as much as you'd like
to keep the question focused. Jay has

1062
01:18:03.079 --> 01:18:08.439
thirty seconds left. If Jay goes
silent, that's not fair to your time.

1063
01:18:08.560 --> 01:18:11.159
It's not fair to his time if
you go silent when he's asking questions

1064
01:18:11.199 --> 01:18:14.600
as well. See, he only
has twenty seconds left on his time.

1065
01:18:14.920 --> 01:18:19.399
Let's keep it focused on the topics
and not about either side, either side

1066
01:18:19.600 --> 01:18:24.520
talking about the debate itself. Let's
keep it focused on the topic. I

1067
01:18:24.640 --> 01:18:28.119
think I think y'aded to watch a
few crosses eminations in professional debates. But

1068
01:18:28.199 --> 01:18:30.479
it's okay, you're not a professional
debate. What are you talking about?

1069
01:18:30.960 --> 01:18:38.000
Jay? Jay has twenty more second
question, So worried about my time,

1070
01:18:38.199 --> 01:18:40.600
and I was about to answer your
question for your time. I literally about

1071
01:18:40.600 --> 01:18:44.880
to answer your question time. I'm
gonna ask the question oh again, okay?

1072
01:18:45.199 --> 01:18:51.520
Correct? Are you united too the
Trinitarian groups say in fourth, six

1073
01:18:51.600 --> 01:18:55.760
and seven centuries that were Judaizers,
Do you have the same faith as those

1074
01:18:55.800 --> 01:18:59.319
people because you're an anti Trinitarian.
You're claiming that all of those groups are

1075
01:18:59.399 --> 01:19:02.560
your group? Is that true?
So just to be clear, he caught

1076
01:19:02.560 --> 01:19:04.920
me an anti Trinitarian, which I
told him I wasn't a text message,

1077
01:19:04.920 --> 01:19:08.239
so I don't even know why he's
using that right now. But just to

1078
01:19:08.279 --> 01:19:11.000
be clear, anybody that teaches to
keep the commandments, which is why if

1079
01:19:11.000 --> 01:19:14.319
you actually look up Messianic churches that
today they're mixed with people that believe in

1080
01:19:14.600 --> 01:19:19.000
Trinitarian oneness and other people. So
anybody that preaches that follows Jesus and teaching

1081
01:19:19.000 --> 01:19:21.479
people to keep the commandments, I
don't care about your other be a lot

1082
01:19:21.600 --> 01:19:26.159
of theology. But if you believe
in Jesus and teach people to keep the

1083
01:19:26.199 --> 01:19:30.640
commandments, you are my group.
So when church proathers talked about juda yasers,

1084
01:19:30.640 --> 01:19:32.359
they were talking about people that believe
in Jesus and as you've already said

1085
01:19:32.680 --> 01:19:35.560
people, You've already admitted this.
They're talking about people that believe in Jesus

1086
01:19:35.600 --> 01:19:39.479
and also try to judayas Christianity,
which is teaching to keep the commandments.

1087
01:19:39.600 --> 01:19:41.520
So yes, if they do that, they are part of my group.

1088
01:19:41.800 --> 01:19:44.279
You admitted you didn't even know who
my group was. Was why you wanted

1089
01:19:44.319 --> 01:19:48.880
me to explain it? Said?
If you don't want to alienate Christians because

1090
01:19:48.880 --> 01:19:53.199
you're passing yourself off as a Christian
when you're not Bryson, you have two

1091
01:19:53.239 --> 01:19:57.399
minutes on the clock you can feel
free to interrupt during your cross examination time.

1092
01:19:57.439 --> 01:20:01.640
That's time you can feel free to
It's okay, I'm an adult.

1093
01:20:01.840 --> 01:20:05.000
UM, so I will actually pick
it back off your questions. I really

1094
01:20:05.000 --> 01:20:08.159
don't have no answer questions. I
like, we already figure out the issue

1095
01:20:08.159 --> 01:20:12.600
with this conversation. Um. But
so since you've already admitted and I've already

1096
01:20:12.600 --> 01:20:14.720
told you who my group was,
and I just laid it out to you

1097
01:20:14.800 --> 01:20:18.000
again, my question to you is
when they say at Juda Yazer, if

1098
01:20:18.039 --> 01:20:21.560
they are referring to people that follow
Jesus and teach people to keep the commandments,

1099
01:20:21.640 --> 01:20:27.159
and I say, that's my group, that's my group. So was

1100
01:20:27.239 --> 01:20:30.640
I right when I said my group
has always been in existence? Of course,

1101
01:20:30.640 --> 01:20:33.560
that's just ingenuous because you can make
the parameters as wide as you want

1102
01:20:33.640 --> 01:20:36.439
to be any group that fits in, so that you can then have an

1103
01:20:36.520 --> 01:20:41.039
example in every one of those centuries
when you know very well that those groups

1104
01:20:41.079 --> 01:20:45.399
are all divided against one another,
and there's not a consistent lineage in every

1105
01:20:45.520 --> 01:20:48.520
century of a succession. That's my
point. We have absolute succession. There's

1106
01:20:48.560 --> 01:20:51.840
one church and all those centuries it's
the Church. Yeah, it's the church

1107
01:20:51.920 --> 01:20:55.800
that you got the Gospel of Matthew
from. Right. Yeah, So that's

1108
01:20:55.800 --> 01:21:00.159
irrelevant. That's because Jesus said that
the kingdom. It's brysons time. Go

1109
01:21:00.199 --> 01:21:04.000
ahead, Bryson, I haven't asked
a question. You don't ask questions.

1110
01:21:04.039 --> 01:21:09.319
It's not your time, Okay.
So the reason I just said that was

1111
01:21:09.359 --> 01:21:13.119
irrelevant to what I said is I
just told you my group. So unless

1112
01:21:13.119 --> 01:21:14.760
you claim that I'm lyinding about my
group, by ba, this is the

1113
01:21:14.800 --> 01:21:17.760
group I've been saying I'm a part
of. You can't find me saying fallacis

1114
01:21:18.159 --> 01:21:21.560
you try. You're trying. You're
trying to claim it's too general. The

1115
01:21:21.600 --> 01:21:24.960
reason you don't want it to be
too general because you have to admit your

1116
01:21:25.000 --> 01:21:29.199
wrong And I don't understand. I
just I just told you. I just

1117
01:21:29.239 --> 01:21:31.600
told you my group. You've already
admitted what Judiajas were according to according to

1118
01:21:31.640 --> 01:21:35.359
the Touch Fathers. So if if
you're not with those groups, let me

1119
01:21:35.399 --> 01:21:38.680
ask you. You're doing a word, let me ask you, Let me

1120
01:21:38.720 --> 01:21:40.800
ask you. Let me ask you
this way, Dan, let me ask

1121
01:21:40.800 --> 01:21:44.439
you this way. Then if you
have to accept what I just claimed my

1122
01:21:44.520 --> 01:21:46.279
group was, I don't care how
general you think it is based on that

1123
01:21:46.600 --> 01:21:49.880
you're based on how general it is? Man, you can't even make an

1124
01:21:50.000 --> 01:21:56.359
argument. It's time Bryson go ahead. Does that mean if you have to

1125
01:21:56.399 --> 01:21:58.920
accept what I just said? Does
that mean according to you and what you

1126
01:21:59.000 --> 01:22:01.560
have already claimed, you have conceded
the point that my group that you are

1127
01:22:01.600 --> 01:22:05.119
to claim you didn't know who it
was you you have to claim? Is

1128
01:22:05.159 --> 01:22:09.279
it true that this is al always
existed according to Church fathers. No,

1129
01:22:09.479 --> 01:22:13.880
your argument is based on a word
concept fallacy that you can identify and everything.

1130
01:22:13.920 --> 01:22:19.319
Answer the question. I don't want
to not just general it is based

1131
01:22:19.359 --> 01:22:21.399
on what I was just saying.
I'm gonnaw generally you don't care if it

1132
01:22:21.800 --> 01:22:25.840
to church fathers. Has this Has
this group always existed? Do you know

1133
01:22:25.880 --> 01:22:30.800
what a word concept fels is?
Has the group always don't ask me questions

1134
01:22:30.800 --> 01:22:32.680
to your time is up? Is
your time? Has this group always existed?

1135
01:22:33.039 --> 01:22:36.560
Your argument is based on a word
consipt of fallacy, interest of my

1136
01:22:36.640 --> 01:22:40.640
time? All right? So that
was that was a little over. It

1137
01:22:40.840 --> 01:22:45.960
is fair to go, um,
to unpack a question on either side.

1138
01:22:45.000 --> 01:22:48.159
If either of you feels a question
is flawed, Bryson, if you feel

1139
01:22:48.159 --> 01:22:51.239
a question he asked his flawed and
he asked for yes or no, feel

1140
01:22:51.239 --> 01:22:55.239
free to say this is not a
yes or no answer, Um, Jay,

1141
01:22:55.399 --> 01:22:58.079
you have two minutes on the clock
for your time for cross examination.

1142
01:22:58.880 --> 01:23:01.159
Yeah. The argument is based on
a word concept fallacy, that the term

1143
01:23:01.279 --> 01:23:05.880
judaizer can be extended to be so
broad that it encompasses any potential group that

1144
01:23:06.039 --> 01:23:11.119
has a very basic general belief that
he shares. And so, as I

1145
01:23:11.239 --> 01:23:15.199
pointed out, in the early Church, the word judaizers used across the board

1146
01:23:15.239 --> 01:23:18.560
for arians, for nestorians, for
anybody that's an anti Trinitarian. And my

1147
01:23:18.680 --> 01:23:21.840
point about the Trinity was not to
deflect to the Trinity but to point out

1148
01:23:21.960 --> 01:23:27.079
that your group doesn't exist in continuity. You know the argument I'm making.

1149
01:23:27.479 --> 01:23:31.359
You're coming up with ways that there's
so broad a description of heterodox people that

1150
01:23:31.800 --> 01:23:34.680
oh, yeah, well, I'm
it'd be like me saying I agree with

1151
01:23:34.880 --> 01:23:39.920
the heretics, and there's heretics in
every century, so my church as the

1152
01:23:40.000 --> 01:23:43.079
heretics existed in every century. See, I got you. That's called a

1153
01:23:43.159 --> 01:23:46.520
word concept fallacy because you know that
you don't have that qutuity with those with

1154
01:23:46.640 --> 01:23:50.199
those groups. No, I'm having
to explain why your argument is a fallacy,

1155
01:23:50.239 --> 01:23:55.840
which is okay. I don't have
to ask you a question. I

1156
01:23:55.920 --> 01:23:58.880
can explain the argument to you what
you don't understand. Then I can ask

1157
01:23:58.920 --> 01:24:01.680
you a question, how do you
have a continuity with those groups that don't

1158
01:24:01.760 --> 01:24:09.000
believe what you believe when it comes
to things like the Trinity. As I've

1159
01:24:09.000 --> 01:24:13.319
already splanned you last time, and
as you've already conceded to um the word

1160
01:24:13.439 --> 01:24:15.880
Judaeyazar, as you've already said,
this is according to your criteria, has

1161
01:24:15.960 --> 01:24:20.279
to include people that are that follow
Christ and claim that the mosaic law is

1162
01:24:23.039 --> 01:24:27.079
which is different, is different,
which is different? It's naturally broad,

1163
01:24:27.159 --> 01:24:29.760
which is different. Oh, thank
you. So your argument rested on a

1164
01:24:29.800 --> 01:24:32.520
broad definition, which is why that's
what you said. You just consider.

1165
01:24:32.600 --> 01:24:35.680
No, No, that's truly my
group. So I don't think that doesn't

1166
01:24:35.720 --> 01:24:40.560
exist as an actual body of people. You see, it's not an organization.

1167
01:24:40.720 --> 01:24:43.399
That's my point. No, Jesus
said, who said it has to

1168
01:24:43.439 --> 01:24:46.279
be? That's my argument, dude, that Jesus said that the church would

1169
01:24:46.319 --> 01:24:49.560
not have the gates of help prevail
against it in Matthew sixteen. So you

1170
01:24:49.680 --> 01:24:55.800
have a thousand different sects over seven
centuries that don't actually have a continuous belief

1171
01:24:55.840 --> 01:25:00.399
other than one thing in common.
That's so work about that, because you

1172
01:25:00.680 --> 01:25:04.319
are still you are now fully conceding
your point. No, I'm pointing out

1173
01:25:04.359 --> 01:25:09.079
that your sophistry is a dumb fallacy. It's a word concept fallacy. It's

1174
01:25:09.119 --> 01:25:12.199
just I just gave you an example
of why it doesn't work two minutes now,

1175
01:25:12.640 --> 01:25:14.960
and I can because I don't want
to point o that before you said

1176
01:25:15.000 --> 01:25:18.000
we had to ask you, and
I tried to explain something beforehand. You

1177
01:25:18.039 --> 01:25:23.359
don't want to clear clear it's okay
to for either of you to explain the

1178
01:25:23.520 --> 01:25:27.399
argument that you can't cool, But
that's total. That's totally fine. Well

1179
01:25:27.439 --> 01:25:32.840
he's a debate examination, a debate, great, yeah, yeah, of

1180
01:25:32.960 --> 01:25:36.640
course. Um here you got two
minutes, all the clocks already interrupt pressing.

1181
01:25:36.800 --> 01:25:39.640
Okay, so from my time,
I have to just explain to you,

1182
01:25:39.760 --> 01:25:42.640
and I hope that could do it
as simple as possible. UM,

1183
01:25:42.720 --> 01:25:44.920
I just want to just recap this
one more time, be the last time

1184
01:25:44.920 --> 01:25:47.039
I recap it. You just don't
like how broad it is. I told

1185
01:25:47.119 --> 01:25:50.279
you before you ask me specifically,
are people that believe in the trinity but

1186
01:25:50.479 --> 01:25:53.359
teach people to keep the law,
they are part of my group? And

1187
01:25:53.359 --> 01:25:56.520
I told you yes. So unless
you just flat out tell me on Lyne,

1188
01:25:56.800 --> 01:26:00.279
everything else you said is null and
void and irrelevant. I told you

1189
01:26:00.359 --> 01:26:01.640
who my group was. I've been
telling you who my group was, and

1190
01:26:01.720 --> 01:26:04.600
then I gave you I'm the one
who brought up how church fathers talked about

1191
01:26:04.640 --> 01:26:08.359
Juda yas Is all throughout, and
you said, has your group existed?

1192
01:26:08.399 --> 01:26:12.039
What's evidence for your group? I
then gave you evidence for my group,

1193
01:26:12.119 --> 01:26:14.840
and you play, oh, that's
too broad to be a group. Oh

1194
01:26:15.279 --> 01:26:18.680
my group, my group, it's
my time. My group is just broad.

1195
01:26:19.039 --> 01:26:25.600
So it's people that teach keep the
commandment. I'm gonna saying, keep

1196
01:26:25.600 --> 01:26:27.680
going. I'm ex playing to you
my group for the last time, my

1197
01:26:27.800 --> 01:26:30.239
group of people. I don't get
you even Trinity one is. This is

1198
01:26:30.279 --> 01:26:31.760
my fourth time saying it's by the
way, Trinity one is whatever it is.

1199
01:26:31.800 --> 01:26:34.720
If you teach, if you keep
commandments, and teach people to keep

1200
01:26:34.720 --> 01:26:39.680
the commandments. As Jesus stated at
Matthew five, you are part of my

1201
01:26:39.880 --> 01:26:44.039
group. It doesn't need to be
called a name or or have a group

1202
01:26:44.199 --> 01:26:46.039
for that to be my group,
the people I view as my brothers in

1203
01:26:46.159 --> 01:26:50.000
Christ. Um. And you've already
conceded that the Church fathers talked about these

1204
01:26:50.039 --> 01:26:55.560
people all always since the beginning,
which is conceded that my group has always

1205
01:26:55.720 --> 01:26:59.720
existed and always been talked about.
That is just the basic objective truth of

1206
01:26:59.760 --> 01:27:04.479
them there. Okay, And you
do have thirty seconds left. If you

1207
01:27:04.560 --> 01:27:09.399
have anything else, any questions you
want to direct to jay Um. I

1208
01:27:09.479 --> 01:27:11.359
mean, all you want to do
is try to twist at turn it again

1209
01:27:11.399 --> 01:27:16.079
as he's been doing. I don't
really I don't really have an extra of

1210
01:27:16.159 --> 01:27:20.359
questions. Yeah. The argument was
that there's a visible body of people known

1211
01:27:20.439 --> 01:27:25.359
as the Church, the kingdom that
is one Lord, one faith, one

1212
01:27:25.439 --> 01:27:28.680
body. According to Paul, that
means it can't be split amongst a thousand

1213
01:27:28.720 --> 01:27:31.520
different sects. So for you to
maintain your argument, you did exactly what

1214
01:27:31.640 --> 01:27:34.880
I said. You had to make
it so broad that it includes any possible

1215
01:27:35.319 --> 01:27:40.880
person with one belief and you don't
care about all of the other multitude of

1216
01:27:40.920 --> 01:27:45.199
beliefs that they're all divided amongst themselves
about so that means that you don't actually

1217
01:27:45.279 --> 01:27:49.439
have a continuous group. That was
the argument from Matthew sixteen. So in

1218
01:27:49.600 --> 01:27:54.079
your view, the true Church of
the Remnant, or whoever you think it

1219
01:27:54.239 --> 01:27:57.760
is, is all of these thousands
of sex all divided against one another.

1220
01:27:57.840 --> 01:28:01.840
So did Satan prevail against your church
to divide it into thousands of different sects

1221
01:28:02.239 --> 01:28:08.680
amongst these seven centuries. No,
Satan only prevailed against like the Orthodox Church

1222
01:28:08.720 --> 01:28:10.760
and the Catholic Church, which is
why YA don't keep the commandment. You

1223
01:28:10.840 --> 01:28:14.199
didn't answer my question, So how
is how did I say? I said,

1224
01:28:14.279 --> 01:28:16.600
no answer, No, that was
a two quot quay another fallacy.

1225
01:28:16.880 --> 01:28:21.359
You know what a two quot quad
fallacy is. You know you know what

1226
01:28:21.439 --> 01:28:25.359
answer the question already? You said, You said that you put it back

1227
01:28:25.359 --> 01:28:28.279
on the way you put it back. That's a two quot quite fallacy to

1228
01:28:28.319 --> 01:28:31.039
put it back on me that the
Catholic Church and Orthodox Church were the ones

1229
01:28:31.079 --> 01:28:35.159
that capitulated Satan. When I asked
you a specific question about your schism and

1230
01:28:35.279 --> 01:28:39.199
divided groups throughout those centuries, you
didn't answer. You said, no,

1231
01:28:39.359 --> 01:28:42.279
it's the Orthodox Church. Yeah,
I say no, which is answered two

1232
01:28:42.359 --> 01:28:44.239
quo qu no, it's not.
You know what if you don't even know,

1233
01:28:44.439 --> 01:28:46.760
you don't why are you debating you
don't know three basic fallacies you've already

1234
01:28:46.760 --> 01:28:50.479
committed two quote quay, Bro,
you're just doing what all everybody doing.

1235
01:28:50.600 --> 01:28:56.359
They just don't pological fallacies, want
to one body on one more, one

1236
01:28:56.399 --> 01:28:59.119
faith, one body. You don't
even have that. That's why the do

1237
01:28:59.279 --> 01:29:01.439
the Orthodox prevailed against for everybody.
Also, that's a two quote way.

1238
01:29:01.520 --> 01:29:03.239
You're just saying you don't have that. You don't have that, you don't

1239
01:29:03.319 --> 01:29:05.279
Yes, we do have that,
but that's I've already said no to the

1240
01:29:05.319 --> 01:29:08.079
first questions are you gonna do?
And say, oh, so, what's

1241
01:29:08.119 --> 01:29:10.920
the sea I want kind of respond
to you said I'm gonna You're not gonna

1242
01:29:10.960 --> 01:29:13.640
respond to it because you can't do
it. I said, no, that's

1243
01:29:13.680 --> 01:29:16.279
not an answer. Just no,
dude, you just literally by definitions.

1244
01:29:16.720 --> 01:29:20.199
You just lost bro. No,
you just you just said that. I

1245
01:29:20.319 --> 01:29:24.640
asked you a question and you said, no. What's the argument for that

1246
01:29:24.800 --> 01:29:27.840
being the case? That's time on
that Bryson. You have two minutes on

1247
01:29:27.920 --> 01:29:30.159
the clock for your cross, and
I will expland it to him. So

1248
01:29:30.199 --> 01:29:35.239
the reason it didn't prevail against the
people that I believe um are truly like

1249
01:29:35.399 --> 01:29:39.279
fully in Christ, the people that
teach to keep the commandments, is because

1250
01:29:39.359 --> 01:29:42.279
we know biblically that those are the
people that Satan will wage war with.

1251
01:29:42.880 --> 01:29:46.079
Didn't say Satan will wage war with
a church at all. Um doesn't say

1252
01:29:46.079 --> 01:29:48.520
that in the Boca Daniel, doesn't
say that in at the twenty four,

1253
01:29:48.600 --> 01:29:54.640
doesn't say that, and really really
any problem it's it's prison's time. Yeah,

1254
01:29:55.159 --> 01:29:59.000
But what the Bible does say in
Revelation twelve is that saying it's wage

1255
01:29:59.079 --> 01:30:02.760
war against those that that keep the
commandments of God and hold to the testimony

1256
01:30:02.800 --> 01:30:06.039
of Jesus Christ. The problem,
I think the issue you're having is you're

1257
01:30:06.079 --> 01:30:09.439
just so used to having like an
official body it has to be called a

1258
01:30:09.560 --> 01:30:12.279
name when it doesn't biblically, which
is why I'm just one hundred and sent

1259
01:30:12.359 --> 01:30:15.720
correct. If you keep the commandments
and the testimony of God, that is

1260
01:30:15.800 --> 01:30:20.159
the body. Those are the people
say in waging world, waging war against

1261
01:30:20.279 --> 01:30:24.560
which is why I said no,
because in Daniel seven it talks about how

1262
01:30:24.640 --> 01:30:28.000
Satan works. It says people will
be arrogant, an attempt to change the

1263
01:30:28.159 --> 01:30:30.640
times and the law of the Most
High. And the reason I brought up

1264
01:30:30.640 --> 01:30:35.239
the Catholic Church and the Orthodoxy Church
is because objectively speaking, that is something

1265
01:30:35.279 --> 01:30:39.640
that has happened, which you have
tried to defend this entire of this debate.

1266
01:30:39.880 --> 01:30:43.439
So no, Satan has not prevailed
against who I believe to be the

1267
01:30:43.520 --> 01:30:47.279
body, because we still keep the
commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus

1268
01:30:47.399 --> 01:30:50.960
Christ. And you still have forty
seconds on the clock. Prison. Oh

1269
01:30:53.479 --> 01:30:56.880
oh, I guess my question will
be does that properly answer your question?

1270
01:30:57.399 --> 01:31:01.039
Jade? I mean, you said
no, but it's not it's a nonsensical

1271
01:31:01.119 --> 01:31:04.199
answer because you just said no.
They they're the true Church, They're the

1272
01:31:04.239 --> 01:31:13.399
true people. Well, you ask
has Satan? Hey, it's a very

1273
01:31:13.439 --> 01:31:16.359
simple question. You already I answered. I thought I answered it so beautifully.

1274
01:31:16.399 --> 01:31:21.880
Bro you no again, you have
two minutes on the clock of your

1275
01:31:21.920 --> 01:31:27.720
cross examination. Yeah. So you
restated your argument about what you think is

1276
01:31:27.800 --> 01:31:30.840
the case in church history, and
you said, we know that there's always

1277
01:31:30.880 --> 01:31:33.159
these people because the Bible says so, No, I want to know in

1278
01:31:33.319 --> 01:31:36.359
those centuries. Yes, you did. You said that the people that it

1279
01:31:36.359 --> 01:31:40.720
would be warned against the people that
keep the commandments. And by the way,

1280
01:31:40.800 --> 01:31:43.960
Revelation twelve is about the Church.
It's the group of people that come

1281
01:31:44.079 --> 01:31:47.000
from the woman, the queen of
Heaven in that text that gave birth to

1282
01:31:47.159 --> 01:31:50.359
the Messiah. That queen of Heaven
is Mary. Mary is the Theotokos.

1283
01:31:50.800 --> 01:31:55.760
So that chapter is about the church. So yeah, absolutely, the church

1284
01:31:55.960 --> 01:31:59.079
is called the Kingdom of Heaven.
And Matthew sixteen, the passage that I'm

1285
01:31:59.119 --> 01:32:02.359
referring to Jesus that the gates of
Hell would not prevail against the Kingdom,

1286
01:32:02.720 --> 01:32:05.720
and that he would give the keys
to the apostles. He gives the keys

1287
01:32:05.760 --> 01:32:09.720
to Peter, he gives the keys
to the rest the apostles in Matthew eighteen,

1288
01:32:09.800 --> 01:32:14.279
two chapters later, and I'm saying
that that means that there's one Lord,

1289
01:32:14.359 --> 01:32:16.640
one faith, one body as a
visible organization in history, the one

1290
01:32:16.720 --> 01:32:19.520
that you get the Gospel of Matthew
from that you admit, you appeal to

1291
01:32:19.600 --> 01:32:25.319
our tradition to get that same visible
body is the Church of history. That

1292
01:32:25.680 --> 01:32:29.800
church is unified. It teaches the
same things throughout the seven Ecommenical councils.

1293
01:32:30.039 --> 01:32:33.840
And I asked you for the unity
of your group as a visible organization throughout

1294
01:32:33.880 --> 01:32:36.800
those centuries, and you said,
it's not a visible organization, doesn't have

1295
01:32:38.000 --> 01:32:42.520
to be. It can be a
bunch of different groups. Okay, So

1296
01:32:42.840 --> 01:32:49.079
Satan did prevail to split your church
into anti Trinitarian and Trinitarian groups. Dude,

1297
01:32:49.079 --> 01:32:55.880
that makes no sense. Oh it
cannot respond. Yeah, okay,

1298
01:32:56.239 --> 01:33:00.199
yeah, you just very incorrect.
I wold never says the body has to

1299
01:33:00.439 --> 01:33:04.119
agree with one theology, but it
does say. And by the way,

1300
01:33:04.319 --> 01:33:10.560
your church is definitely not the body
to talk about it revelation revelation to Will.

1301
01:33:10.600 --> 01:33:12.920
And I'm gonna tell you why,
because that body has to hold to

1302
01:33:12.960 --> 01:33:15.159
the commandments and a testimony of Judus
Christ, which your body don't do.

1303
01:33:15.920 --> 01:33:21.520
You don't believe Christ, you don't
have the testimony of Christ. All right,

1304
01:33:21.560 --> 01:33:24.640
Bryson, it will be your two
minutes on the clock for your time

1305
01:33:24.680 --> 01:33:29.119
for cross examination. We have about
fifteen minutes left for crossing or sixteen minutes

1306
01:33:29.199 --> 01:33:32.880
left beautiful. So so I think
I'm starting to see the issue here.

1307
01:33:33.079 --> 01:33:36.359
Um he believes you have to agree
with the same exact theology to be part

1308
01:33:36.399 --> 01:33:39.600
of the body, which leads to
what he said before. Now it's starting

1309
01:33:39.600 --> 01:33:43.199
to make sense. That's just varying
error. There's nothing to back it up,

1310
01:33:43.239 --> 01:33:45.680
no scritchs. A matter of fact, for a large part of early

1311
01:33:46.159 --> 01:33:51.039
Orthodox history and Catholic history, there
was many belief systems, which is why

1312
01:33:51.079 --> 01:33:56.640
they had counsels and bishops had to
vote on different belief systems and see which

1313
01:33:56.720 --> 01:34:00.199
one was right. Matter of fact, claim of the Trinity was necessary need

1314
01:34:00.239 --> 01:34:02.760
to be a Christian. That was
way later, um, in church history,

1315
01:34:02.800 --> 01:34:04.760
when that was when that was going
to be said. That's why so

1316
01:34:04.840 --> 01:34:10.159
many church fathers wrote so many books
trying to explain to Trinity and debate against

1317
01:34:10.199 --> 01:34:14.720
other people that was supposedly of the
same faith. Um so, but bitterly

1318
01:34:14.760 --> 01:34:16.720
speaking, is just not necessary Trinity
one. It's not that that is necessary

1319
01:34:16.800 --> 01:34:19.880
necessary to be a Christian. He
talked about the the christ did he means

1320
01:34:19.920 --> 01:34:23.880
divine, claiming that I don't believe
Jesus is divine. It's just I mean,

1321
01:34:23.960 --> 01:34:26.199
flat out's fault. But like I
said, not about going to that

1322
01:34:26.239 --> 01:34:31.399
silly argument, Bryson, feel free
to go ahead, Yes, sir,

1323
01:34:31.960 --> 01:34:35.680
um So it's all right. You'll
have your time to call that out if

1324
01:34:35.760 --> 01:34:38.840
if that's if that's how you feel, Bryson, go ahead. You have

1325
01:34:38.920 --> 01:34:42.800
about um a little over a minute, okay, Den he means uh,

1326
01:34:42.960 --> 01:34:45.239
deed, he means divine. Divine
means from God or of God or God.

1327
01:34:45.319 --> 01:34:50.399
I believe that Jesus is clearly from
God and a friend of Jesus Lord.

1328
01:34:50.439 --> 01:34:53.239
By the way, So not being
this ingenuous, you just don't know

1329
01:34:53.239 --> 01:34:55.640
what you're talking about. Um.
So, as I said, your body

1330
01:34:55.680 --> 01:34:59.359
can't be the body spoken about in
the Bible, because you have spent almost

1331
01:34:59.399 --> 01:35:01.279
two hours saying you don't have to
keep the commandment. So I know for

1332
01:35:01.439 --> 01:35:03.840
a fact the body that I say
it is the body is the true body

1333
01:35:03.880 --> 01:35:08.520
and not yours. All right,
j you have two minutes on the clock.

1334
01:35:10.000 --> 01:35:12.279
Yeah. First of all, that's
not what divinity means. It does

1335
01:35:12.319 --> 01:35:15.760
not mean from God. It's a
generic term that can be Well, I

1336
01:35:15.760 --> 01:35:17.600
don't know where you're shaking your head. Literally, that's not what it means.

1337
01:35:17.760 --> 01:35:20.640
I mean humans are from God?
Does that mean we're divine? You

1338
01:35:20.680 --> 01:35:25.119
don't even know what the words mean. The word God is a general term

1339
01:35:25.199 --> 01:35:29.079
that can be used in scripture to
refer to angels, to devils, It

1340
01:35:29.159 --> 01:35:31.279
can be used to refer to human
beings, and it can be used to

1341
01:35:31.319 --> 01:35:35.319
referred to God himself. So it's
a general term that can be used in

1342
01:35:35.520 --> 01:35:41.920
different ways. But to pass yourself
off as a Christian when you know good

1343
01:35:41.960 --> 01:35:45.039
and well you do not believe the
fundamental doctrines of Christianity, which are defined

1344
01:35:45.079 --> 01:35:47.720
by things like the Council of Nicia. It would be like me saying,

1345
01:35:48.119 --> 01:35:53.560
well, I'm remember the Communist Party, but I don't believe what the Communist

1346
01:35:53.640 --> 01:35:58.159
Party teaches. Oh I'm a member
of you know, pick any group that

1347
01:35:58.279 --> 01:36:02.239
has a set defined group of characteristics
and to then say, well, but

1348
01:36:02.359 --> 01:36:05.520
I don't actually believe those things,
but I am that thing. You don't

1349
01:36:05.520 --> 01:36:10.439
have the right to just use those
terms or to appropriate those appropriate those things

1350
01:36:10.479 --> 01:36:15.359
to yourself, just like there's not
a unified judaizing group. So you don't

1351
01:36:15.399 --> 01:36:18.520
believe in the trinity. And if
you believe Jesus is a creature, then

1352
01:36:18.560 --> 01:36:21.079
you're not. You don't believe in
the deed of Christ in the sense of

1353
01:36:21.199 --> 01:36:24.800
the way the Church has always taught
it. And it's not true that the

1354
01:36:24.840 --> 01:36:28.039
Trinity is a late doctrine. Where
do you think where do you think the

1355
01:36:28.079 --> 01:36:35.279
Trinity came from? Which version of
the Trinity? There's only one version in

1356
01:36:35.359 --> 01:36:40.319
the first thousand years of Christianity.
Well, the original one was Tertullian.

1357
01:36:40.359 --> 01:36:43.920
Then there's a guy. People claim
that you don't know what you're talking about.

1358
01:36:43.960 --> 01:36:45.960
You think Tertillion made up the Trinity. Um, he was the first

1359
01:36:45.960 --> 01:36:50.800
person at point the time Trinit's ask
for an absolute fact. Then that doesn't

1360
01:36:50.800 --> 01:36:55.239
mean that he's the person that made
up the doctrine. Yeah, so I

1361
01:36:55.279 --> 01:36:58.319
can't interrupt and cross examination. So
I don't know why you're shaking your head.

1362
01:36:58.359 --> 01:37:00.640
It's a cross examination that means I
can rup. Oh, he's already

1363
01:37:00.680 --> 01:37:03.079
established you can. So I'm going
off your rules. But I'm still making

1364
01:37:03.159 --> 01:37:05.600
face because you have a consent.
You have comes like a child, if

1365
01:37:05.640 --> 01:37:11.079
I'm being quite frank. Examination.
Yeah, I watched a lot of those,

1366
01:37:11.159 --> 01:37:14.720
and this is not how they typically
back to the debate. But I

1367
01:37:14.760 --> 01:37:17.399
don't want to argue about the debating. Where do where do you think the

1368
01:37:17.479 --> 01:37:19.720
Trinity and the de to Christ came
from? If you think it's late,

1369
01:37:19.840 --> 01:37:23.840
I want to know, well,
I didn't say they. I didn't say

1370
01:37:23.840 --> 01:37:29.000
the Christ. That's why you're trying
to move the goalpost. The two doctors

1371
01:37:29.079 --> 01:37:31.399
go together, No, because that
means what look I mean you have to

1372
01:37:31.399 --> 01:37:34.319
say one is doctrine. It is
the same thing which Tertullian wrote books about

1373
01:37:34.359 --> 01:37:40.159
against Praisi is arguing against one is
doctrine. Both sides believe that Jesus is

1374
01:37:40.159 --> 01:37:41.880
a deity. By the way,
you need to go look up the definition

1375
01:37:41.920 --> 01:37:44.319
of the divine. You're objectively wrong
for like the fiftieth time and it's debate

1376
01:37:44.920 --> 01:37:47.520
told you that the word god is
a generic term, and you gave them.

1377
01:37:47.600 --> 01:37:50.880
You gave it one definition. I
said divine. You said divine.

1378
01:37:51.600 --> 01:37:56.399
God and deity and divine are all
the same reference and they refer to generic

1379
01:37:56.560 --> 01:38:00.640
terms. We'll move to Bryson's two
minutes for cross examination. Okay, thank

1380
01:38:00.680 --> 01:38:02.520
you. So he claimed that divine
is not mean from God and anybody like

1381
01:38:02.760 --> 01:38:04.720
like, if I'm not mistake of
you, just google it. I don't

1382
01:38:04.760 --> 01:38:08.960
think no, definition, devine wouldn't
have that in there Google, so um

1383
01:38:09.319 --> 01:38:12.680
he claimed that that wasn't the definition. So he's not gonna admit he's objectly

1384
01:38:12.720 --> 01:38:17.720
wrong about that because he has a
hard time uman that period us. Secondly,

1385
01:38:17.800 --> 01:38:23.119
that's what I was saying about Tertullian. Tertullian most popular writings are called

1386
01:38:23.159 --> 01:38:29.119
against Prasius, and which essentially is
him debating uh Prasius. It's just his

1387
01:38:29.239 --> 01:38:33.159
writing, so there's no um counter
to counter arguments, but it's him debating

1388
01:38:33.239 --> 01:38:36.439
Praisius on the one is doctrine.
And if anybody doesn't know what one is

1389
01:38:36.479 --> 01:38:42.000
doctrine is is they believe the sort
of what a Zurka tried to imply rear.

1390
01:38:42.039 --> 01:38:45.560
He claims he believes in the Trinity. Um is the Son, the

1391
01:38:45.680 --> 01:38:48.239
Holy Spirit, and the Father all
Jesus. Many Jesus is the Father.

1392
01:38:48.399 --> 01:38:54.039
There is no separation, there's no
distinction. But they also believe Jesus is

1393
01:38:54.319 --> 01:38:58.920
uh deity obviously because they believe Jesus
the father. Um. So when he

1394
01:38:59.039 --> 01:39:00.800
claims the deity of Rice and the
Trinity is connected to know it's not.

1395
01:39:00.920 --> 01:39:04.760
They're clearly two separate things. That's
just an objective truth and trenitized, as

1396
01:39:04.800 --> 01:39:09.640
I said, started with tertillion.
There was one guy beforehand, and that

1397
01:39:09.720 --> 01:39:14.000
wasn't a trinity, that was more
like a QUADRUPOLEI or whatever the quite terminalogy

1398
01:39:14.039 --> 01:39:16.199
of that is. But as far
as the as far as the most populate

1399
01:39:16.199 --> 01:39:18.840
residents of the trinity, doctor,
and the term trinitaise that definitely came from

1400
01:39:18.880 --> 01:39:23.119
to Chilian for an objective fact,
and then it evolved from there because that's

1401
01:39:23.119 --> 01:39:26.239
not even the same trinity that I
don't know if Orthodox believe in that same

1402
01:39:26.279 --> 01:39:30.000
trinity. But then the most popular
trainings are not even the same as it

1403
01:39:30.159 --> 01:39:33.560
was during that time. And you
have thirty seconds left. Oh dang,

1404
01:39:34.039 --> 01:39:39.800
Um, I gotta start talking slower
or something that felt like forever. Um,

1405
01:39:41.079 --> 01:39:44.199
I will just repeat what I said. Uh, your your church is

1406
01:39:44.239 --> 01:39:46.640
not the body Scripture like I said
before, because they don't keep the commandments

1407
01:39:46.680 --> 01:39:49.279
of God and the testimony of Jesus
Christ. I just want to continue to

1408
01:39:49.760 --> 01:39:54.000
not rub it in, but continue
slamming at home. All right, Jay,

1409
01:39:54.039 --> 01:39:56.079
you got two minutes on the clock. We have about ten minutes left

1410
01:39:56.119 --> 01:39:57.920
in the cross exam. Yeah,
yeah,