1 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:43,079 M spaing and spending, the spending, the snow smoke, some things I 2 00:00:43,320 --> 00:03:29,120 love spend. All right, what's up? I want to make sure you 3 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:30,800 can hear me, Chase? Can you hear me? Yep? Yep? 4 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:37,960 Can you hear me? You're pretty low? All right? That's easy. 5 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:53,680 Fix one second? All right? What about that? It's a little better? 6 00:03:53,719 --> 00:03:57,439 I guess here. No, it's easy to turn them. I'll turn 7 00:03:57,439 --> 00:04:00,960 them more. It sounds like you're not using your mic. Sounds like you're 8 00:04:00,039 --> 00:04:04,159 using your computer mic. But maybe my stuff's just turned down or something. 9 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:09,560 Try now, what about now? That's a little better? Go, I 10 00:04:09,599 --> 00:04:11,439 can go up a little more. No, that's good. Can y'all hear 11 00:04:11,479 --> 00:04:20,319 him? Ever? Get pretty good? All right? And Bryson is entering 12 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:34,120 the room, so his audio is connecting. And then we'll let Chase take 13 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:38,639 over. Now, whoever wants to kick it off can go first. I 14 00:04:38,639 --> 00:04:40,839 don't care if Bryson wants to go or if he wants me to go. 15 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:45,279 We could do it either way, don't matter. Okay, how you doing, 16 00:04:45,319 --> 00:04:48,120 man? What's up? What's up? Chilling? Chilling? All right, 17 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:53,319 welcome over here to my channel to so tonight's debate. As you guys 18 00:04:53,319 --> 00:04:59,639 know is with Bryson Gray. The topic is who keeps the Torah. Bryson 19 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:05,399 described himself as a Torah keeping Christian and his channel is linked. I'm sure 20 00:05:05,439 --> 00:05:09,800 you guys are familiar with Bryson. We did an interview not too long ago, 21 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,519 so a few months ago. Um, but this is gonna be different. 22 00:05:12,519 --> 00:05:15,160 It's gonna be a formal, structured debate. It's gonna be timed. 23 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,240 Chases our moderator, So, Chase, do you want to flip a coin 24 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,399 or something? Or how you want to do it? Sure, we could 25 00:05:21,399 --> 00:05:25,879 flip a coin unless you guys one do you guys wants to go flip a 26 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:30,279 coin? All right? Cool? All right, I got a cap here. 27 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:36,480 Heads will be Bryson, tails will be j Okay, it's heads. 28 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:41,639 Bryson will go first. We'll do um fifteen minute opening statements and then um 29 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:44,399 seven minute rebuttals, and then open floor for about an hour, and then 30 00:05:44,439 --> 00:05:54,920 a seven minute closing statements. Okay, hed, yourid went off. Whenever. 31 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,199 Whenever you want to start, I can, I can start the time. 32 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:05,279 Also we already laugh. Okay, time. Um. So from my 33 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:10,639 opening statement, the first thing I want to do is me and Jay sort 34 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:14,360 of have trouble titling the thing because I don't think I feel like I was 35 00:06:14,399 --> 00:06:19,079 missing each other. Um. But it's about do we have to keep Tora 36 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:21,439 or not? So I don't know if I don't know if Jay as an 37 00:06:21,519 --> 00:06:27,279 Orthodox Christians, believes they do keep Tora, but Tauras if anybody doesn't know. 38 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:30,519 It's the first pobook, so Moses, and it's the law. Whatever 39 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:32,800 the Bible says, the law is referring to that when it says the prophecy 40 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:36,720 in the writing is referring to the rest of to knock now. Secondly, 41 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,639 as a tour keeping Christian, I know that might comes to shock. A 42 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:46,519 lot of people don't believe Christians can do. So I already understand I have 43 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:50,600 the unpopular position in this scenario. I'm used to it. It's what I 44 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:55,360 do, It's what I'm known for. But somebody got to do it. 45 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:59,240 But with that being said, I've probably been in like a hundred of these 46 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:04,879 types of debates. People minds rarely change. People in a chat are gonna 47 00:07:04,959 --> 00:07:09,360 support whoever they are to support beforehand. Their mind's not going to change. 48 00:07:10,399 --> 00:07:12,680 So then the question is why am I doing this? I'm really only doing 49 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,759 this for the remnant, for the people that have an open mind. I 50 00:07:15,839 --> 00:07:17,720 just want to hear somebody out and hope I get the same respect which the 51 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:20,240 flat I will with a moderator that I gave Jay Dyer when he was on 52 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:26,639 my channel. I'll let him tell us about orthodox Christianity, without argument, 53 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:30,959 without interrupting, without anything, because you have the people are fair shot. 54 00:07:31,279 --> 00:07:35,680 Now, Jay Dyer, who I liked, by the way, he's known 55 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:42,279 for debating typically when it comes to Christian history. He's very good at that 56 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:47,879 period, point blank. But this debate for me is really just one question, 57 00:07:48,279 --> 00:07:51,600 and there's a question that everybody knows I'm going to ask, and I 58 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:57,560 don't have to play a secret hand because nobody can sufficiently answer the question. 59 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:01,399 And Jay knows my question because I asked them this publicly at an event. 60 00:08:01,879 --> 00:08:07,240 And it's about what Jesus said and the Sermon on the Mount, and it's 61 00:08:07,319 --> 00:08:11,800 Matthew chapter five, verses seventeen, but twenty one, with verse seventeen being 62 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:18,240 one of the most popular things that Jesus said that Christians take out a contest. 63 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:22,600 Now when I asked them this in person, let me just read the 64 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:24,439 part until Heaven and nerth passed, not one jot or two trying to know 65 00:08:24,519 --> 00:08:28,279 why has passed from the law until all is fulfilled. And the verse clearly 66 00:08:28,319 --> 00:08:33,360 tells you that all beings can't be fulfilled or accomplished until Heaven an Earth pass 67 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:39,600 That's clear in the text, no other way to interpret it. And Jay's 68 00:08:39,639 --> 00:08:43,159 response, I always remember at the event was Luke twenty four to forty four, 69 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,120 and I could be wrong, so over he'll correct me in his opening 70 00:08:48,159 --> 00:08:50,679 statement, but he tried to say that a little twenty four forty four. 71 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:56,840 It implied that everything had already been fulfilled. Now that is clearly impossible since 72 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:01,799 Heaven and Earth hasn't passed yet, which no Christian would say Heaven and Earth 73 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:03,960 has passed, because second Peter wants who have Heaven and Earth passed? And 74 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:09,000 then we know Heaven and Earth doesn't pass until Revelation twenty one if that's a 75 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,399 part of your cannon, But it doesn't matter what you believe in. We 76 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:15,799 know Heaven and Earth hasn't passed. And the issue with this question is simple. 77 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:20,759 If I'm not taking it out of context, then Jesus said what he 78 00:09:20,799 --> 00:09:24,799 said. Now, let me predict how typically these conversations go. You tell 79 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:28,320 a Christian Matthew Files every teen to twenty one. They attempt to first say 80 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,279 it's out of context. We read the entire context together and everybody knows I 81 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:35,240 pretty much know what the sermon on them out by heart, and they then 82 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:39,519 can't say it's out of context. And then they run to Paul. They 83 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:43,960 go to Paul, and they try to use Paul's up constantly to argue against 84 00:09:43,039 --> 00:09:46,480 Jesus because you couldn't take you couldn't claim what I said about Jesuss out of 85 00:09:46,519 --> 00:09:52,200 context. That's a very dangerous thing to do inherently, but it's so beautiful 86 00:09:52,279 --> 00:09:58,120 that the Bible warns us about these types of people. And second Peter three 87 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:03,240 sixteen, the Bible literally says ignorant and unstable people will take Paul out of 88 00:10:03,279 --> 00:10:07,159 contexts and use them to their own destruction. And Peter actually calls these people 89 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:11,600 unscrupulous people that are attempting to make you lose your firm commitment. And it 90 00:10:11,639 --> 00:10:15,440 tells you that, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard. So whenever 91 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:18,600 people jumped straight to Paul to argue with Jesus instead of confirming or denying what 92 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:24,200 Jesus said, I find to be very very interesting with Jay. I'm going 93 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:28,600 to assume he's gonna go the more historical route. Well, who gave you 94 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:33,200 the Bible? H and and and and and the Church has the correct interpretation 95 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:37,799 and you can't interpret it without the Church. Now, if I'm not mistaken, 96 00:10:39,039 --> 00:10:41,000 right, I know a bit about Christian history, admittedly not as much 97 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:45,559 about Jay Dyer. I'm more so I know scripture, I know the Bible. 98 00:10:46,039 --> 00:10:50,039 But if I'm not mistaken, the counsel, the first council for the 99 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:52,399 cannon, and people don't know the different cannons happened over different councils was the 100 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:56,120 Council of Rome, if I'm not mistaken, which was in the late three 101 00:10:56,200 --> 00:11:00,720 hundreds, which could be wrong. That's based off memory, though late three 102 00:11:00,759 --> 00:11:07,799 hundreds. To find it interesting because Iranius and papers last name PAPIs the Herropolis. 103 00:11:07,279 --> 00:11:13,639 They clearly affirmed the gospels. Matter of fact, Iranius was pretty much 104 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,559 argue with people that was trying to say only one of the Gospels were accurate. 105 00:11:16,639 --> 00:11:20,360 He was already saying all four Gospels is accurate. And that was hundreds 106 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:26,240 of years earlier than any of these cannons. So the scriptures are the scripture, 107 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:30,919 And I felt that's a side argument. I felt it's a side argument 108 00:11:31,639 --> 00:11:33,919 because it has nothing to do at the point if you believe that your church 109 00:11:35,039 --> 00:11:39,879 chose this cannon, and you need to believe in what it says. So 110 00:11:41,799 --> 00:11:48,320 again, my main question is jesus Sermon on the Mount Matthew five saving teen 111 00:11:48,399 --> 00:11:50,519 to twenty one. And I hope this question will get answered, and I'm 112 00:11:50,519 --> 00:11:54,360 about to say it to y'all off memory. Hopefully I'll get it correct. 113 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:58,639 I did not come to abolish the law or the prophets. I came to 114 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,840 feel and Christians think fulfill means abolished, even though he clearly said otherwise. 115 00:12:05,639 --> 00:12:09,159 And then he says, for verily, I say, until you not one 116 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:15,399 jotge or tittle, shall let no wise passed from the law until all is 117 00:12:15,399 --> 00:12:22,879 accomplished. And then he says that if you nullify one of the least of 118 00:12:22,919 --> 00:12:28,559 these commandments and teach others to do the same thing, meaning teach others to 119 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:33,799 nullify one of the least of the commandments, then you will be called least 120 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:37,519 in the Kingdom of heaven. This is Jesus words, and this is talking 121 00:12:37,519 --> 00:12:39,440 about the future. So you can't say this change when Jesus died on the 122 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:43,879 cross, because Jesus is clearly giving you something that's going to happen in the 123 00:12:43,919 --> 00:12:48,279 future. He said, but if you teach keeping the commandments and teach others 124 00:12:48,279 --> 00:12:52,799 to do so, and keep keep them yourself, you will be called great 125 00:12:52,879 --> 00:12:56,639 in the Kingdom of Heaven. For verily I say unto you, your unless 126 00:12:56,639 --> 00:13:01,039 your righteousness succeeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, in no case enter the 127 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:05,000 Kingdom of Heaven. And then for people that try to claim that he's only 128 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:09,600 referring to the Ten Commandments, that is impossible because then right after this he 129 00:13:09,639 --> 00:13:11,879 goes on to do what people call it put a fence around the toil, 130 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:16,720 or make the law more strict. And in these things from the that he 131 00:13:16,759 --> 00:13:20,679 takes from the law, almost half of them I'm not even in the ten 132 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:24,279 Commandments to begin with. So obviously he's referring to more than the Ten Commandments, 133 00:13:24,279 --> 00:13:28,279 which he made clear when he said law or the prophets. Prophets are 134 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,120 obviously after the law. This consists. This is what the to not consist 135 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:35,080 of. So the context is very clear, and I think this is an 136 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:39,679 interesting thing. So my one question is what did Jesus mean by that? 137 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:43,559 If I'm taking it out of context. My second question is will you be 138 00:13:43,639 --> 00:13:50,360 called great or least in the Kingdom of Heaven according to Jesus Christ? And 139 00:13:50,759 --> 00:13:52,720 I will yield the rest of my time. I don't know how long I 140 00:13:52,759 --> 00:13:58,159 just went, and he went about eight minutes, so you're you're crushing it. 141 00:13:58,279 --> 00:14:01,919 Yeah, right under eight minutes to Jay whatever you want, you got 142 00:14:01,919 --> 00:14:05,240 fifteen minutes on the clock. All right, yeah, thank you for coming. 143 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:11,840 Let's let's get into my opening statement before I address some of the points 144 00:14:11,519 --> 00:14:16,039 that Bryson made there. One thing I would say is that the argument that 145 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:20,679 I gave wasn't in the live event from Luke twenty four. It was Luke 146 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:24,559 twenty one, which locates the context of everything that Jesus is saying in that 147 00:14:24,639 --> 00:14:31,159 chapter about the destruction of Jerusalem. Because Luke's written for a gentile audience. 148 00:14:31,519 --> 00:14:37,320 It's referring to that time period, that group of people standing in front of 149 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:39,840 him. Jesus says they would see all of these things fulfilled. And Luke 150 00:14:39,919 --> 00:14:45,960 is very important because his account of the all of that discourse the destruction of 151 00:14:46,039 --> 00:14:50,960 Jerusalem is more specific for a gentile audience explaining what's going on. So all 152 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:58,919 those statements about not fleeing Jerusalem on the Sabbath that I saw Bryson was kind 153 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:03,080 of referencing on Twitter the other day, those are actually statements about the seventy 154 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:07,960 eighty destruction of Jerusalem, a very famous event that fulfills many of these Old 155 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:13,000 Testament passages about as Jesus says, all things written in the prophets will come 156 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:18,679 upon this generation, that being the generation that he was speaking to. This 157 00:15:18,759 --> 00:15:20,919 is why he says in so many places that the Kingdom of God is in 158 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:24,240 your midst. The Kingdom of God is here, it is now, and 159 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:28,720 the Kingdom of God has identified with the Church in Matthew sixteen. So the 160 00:15:28,799 --> 00:15:33,840 Church is that kingdom. It's established at Christ's Ministry. It's also established at 161 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:37,360 the feast of Pentecost. And that's interesting because if you look at Pentecost, 162 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:41,080 it's another thing that proves this point. Because I feel strongly that if I 163 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:46,639 were to read Joel, particularly Joel two, about in the last days, 164 00:15:46,679 --> 00:15:50,440 I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and daughters 165 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:56,159 will see visions, etc. Bryson in his Exegesis I feel like he would 166 00:15:56,279 --> 00:16:00,919 ascribe that to the end times, much like he would describe Luke twenty one 167 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,759 in Matthew twenty four to be explicitly or solely about the last days. And 168 00:16:04,879 --> 00:16:11,720 yet Joel two is cited as fulfilled in the event of Pentecost in Acts two. 169 00:16:11,799 --> 00:16:18,519 Again powerful proofs of what we call partial pretorism, not full pretorism, 170 00:16:18,519 --> 00:16:23,360 which is the idea that everything mentioned is fulfilled. Events like the bodily resurrection, 171 00:16:23,679 --> 00:16:29,120 events like the destruction of Satan, death, and Hell being thrown into 172 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:32,200 the lake of fire. It's that are clearly those things have not been fulfilled. 173 00:16:32,679 --> 00:16:37,120 However, the destruction of the Temple, which is an immense redemptive historic 174 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:44,279 event, is a fulfillment of multiple Old Testament passes, particularly the warnings that 175 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:48,600 Israel is given in the Law in Deuteronomy and in Leviticus about having the Covenant 176 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:55,000 curses poured out upon them if they reject God. Their final full rejection of 177 00:16:55,039 --> 00:16:59,360 God was in the rejection of the person of God himself, the Logos, 178 00:16:59,639 --> 00:17:02,519 when he became incarnate. As John says in John One, in the beginning 179 00:17:02,559 --> 00:17:03,759 of what in the beginning was the Word, the word was with God the 180 00:17:03,799 --> 00:17:07,400 word was God. That means that Christ is the second person of the God 181 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:11,680 had eternally begotten to the Father. As John says later in that chapter, 182 00:17:11,759 --> 00:17:15,559 that even when he was walking around with us, he was in the bosom 183 00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:18,039 of the Father. And that's why every chapter in the Book of John goes 184 00:17:18,079 --> 00:17:23,319 on to describe either references to the deity of Christ or to the deity of 185 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,240 the Father, of the Son and the Holy Spirit. So the Book of 186 00:17:26,319 --> 00:17:32,799 John is a powerful testament in the New Testament to the full divinity of Christ. 187 00:17:32,839 --> 00:17:34,640 And I say that because and I don't I know the debate is not 188 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,759 about the Trinity. But Bryson does not accept the doctor of the Trinity. 189 00:17:37,799 --> 00:17:41,799 And that matters because we're going to see who gave the laws, Jesus that 190 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:47,359 gave the law to Moses on Mount Sinai, and Jesus himself makes this very 191 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:49,920 clear in the Book of John. Before we get to that, I do 192 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:56,680 want to talk about Bryson's statement about the history of things. If Bryson is 193 00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:03,039 going to argue that his chief content and is Matthew five, the Beatitudes and 194 00:18:03,079 --> 00:18:07,240 so forth, this assumes, yes, that Matthew is an authoritative text. 195 00:18:07,799 --> 00:18:12,200 But there's nothing in Matthew's Gospel that tells us that Matthew, the Disciple of 196 00:18:12,279 --> 00:18:17,880 Christ wrote the book. And certainly, as authorship is important, it does 197 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:22,079 matter. In fact, it matters a big It matters a lot whether or 198 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:27,759 not he wrote that, because he's supposedly an eyewitness and a person there in 199 00:18:27,839 --> 00:18:33,240 the presence of Christ seeing all of this stuff. And so Bryson is correct 200 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:37,240 to cite Pappius. Papius is the earliest witness that we have that it's Matthew 201 00:18:37,519 --> 00:18:42,920 the Disciple. That's an patristic tradition, that's not something in the text itself. 202 00:18:44,319 --> 00:18:48,000 And so Bryson, without realizing it, is relying on the tradition and 203 00:18:48,079 --> 00:18:52,000 testimony of the church fathers, whom he does not accept. In fact, 204 00:18:52,039 --> 00:18:55,799 he even cited Arenais, and I had to get Ariannais off the shelf because 205 00:18:56,319 --> 00:19:00,160 in Arenais is against Herresees who was a bishop in the Orthodox Church. By 206 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,480 the way, if you look at book three of Arnais's treatise, written in 207 00:19:03,519 --> 00:19:10,440 one eighty AD, Arnais goes into depth talking about the tradition of apostolic succession 208 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:15,759 in the churches and how it's necessary to look to churches like the Bishop brig 209 00:19:15,759 --> 00:19:21,599 of Rome as well as others, to see that Apostolic tradition is inseparable from 210 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:26,200 the Gospel, the deposit of faith, and thus knowing the scriptures. So 211 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:30,480 Bryson just admitted that he has to have referred to Orthodox saints and church fathers 212 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,400 in the first few centuries to even know that Matthew is part of the Bible. 213 00:19:34,799 --> 00:19:40,640 So you'll notice this book here that we call the Bible. It's made 214 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:44,519 up of many many it's a book of books. But this didn't fall out 215 00:19:44,559 --> 00:19:47,640 of heaven into Bryson's lap. It didn't come to him in a vacuum. 216 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:51,920 It came to him historically. It was transmitted and passed down much the same 217 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,799 way that the Jews transmitted and passed down not just the written Torah, but 218 00:19:55,920 --> 00:20:00,759 also the oral Torah, which Jesus refers to insights in many places. And 219 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:04,480 so yes, my first challenge is that Bryson can cite passages, but I 220 00:20:04,519 --> 00:20:08,680 need to know why on his view, I'm supposed to accept that he even 221 00:20:08,759 --> 00:20:14,279 has access to or a basis to know the right canon if he's divorced it 222 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:18,759 from the Church who made the decision to put that together and he's correct that 223 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:25,519 one of the early witnesses to the cannon that we accept is the African councils 224 00:20:25,559 --> 00:20:30,559 that are confirmed by Rome, the Canons of Carthage, the African Code as 225 00:20:30,559 --> 00:20:34,079 it's called, that eventually passed into for the Orthodox Church what we call the 226 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:40,000 Council of Trullo, and it's appended together in the fifth and sixth Councils according 227 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:44,200 to the Seventh Council. So the Seventh Council basically says we accept Troullo and 228 00:20:44,319 --> 00:20:47,960 all of those canonical lists. And that is in this book of the chaft 229 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:52,160 set. You can see it right here where it lists, oh, none 230 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:55,279 of the books that a Protestant accepts, or it just give me a list 231 00:20:55,279 --> 00:20:59,400 of the duocanonical books that Protestants don't accept. Why does that matter, well, 232 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:03,319 because it just simply shows that Protestants of all forms, all shapes, 233 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:07,759 have the wrong canon. They look to the Church of History to give them 234 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:14,559 accurate tradition when it comes to people like Pappius or Iranaus in regard to citing 235 00:21:14,599 --> 00:21:19,160 the Gospels. But why does Bryson care what Ernais says? When Bryson doesn't 236 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:23,640 accept anything else. Ernais says as a bishop in the Orthodox Church, what 237 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:29,000 we might cite any other church father that disagrees. So what if one or 238 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:32,559 two church fathers cites this or that gospel, that doesn't tell me which one 239 00:21:32,559 --> 00:21:36,799 I'm supposed to follow. Especially if there's conflicting canons, and there absolutely are, 240 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:40,319 we can give multiple lists of canons in the first six centuries of the 241 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:44,319 Church. Now let's get back to the Bible itself. The Torah was given 242 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:48,960 to Moses. But in the Torah, disputes are assumed to be something that 243 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:55,839 will occur for Israel, and so Moses set down a pattern of how disputes 244 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,400 would be solved. This is the elders, this is the high priest, 245 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:03,599 etc. Who are put in place to make to judge. Ultimately at the 246 00:22:03,599 --> 00:22:07,799 beginning, it's Joshua in the seventy elders in numbers eleven Deuteronomy twenty one. 247 00:22:07,039 --> 00:22:11,039 This is why we see, for example, the laying on of hands of 248 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:15,240 Joshua in numbers twenty seven. This laying on of hand and transmission of authority 249 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:21,279 in the Old Testament is precisely what Jesus does as the founder of the true 250 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:27,200 spiritual Israel. The fulfillment of historic Israel in appointing apostles, which he says 251 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:32,440 in Luke ten sixteen, he who hears you, here's me. That means 252 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:36,880 that succession of authority that Christ has. That by the way, he gave 253 00:22:37,319 --> 00:22:41,599 the law to Moses, because he's the one that spoke to Moses. And 254 00:22:41,759 --> 00:22:45,680 John five. Especially when we get through seven, eight and nine, when 255 00:22:45,799 --> 00:22:49,359 Jesus is disputing with the Pharisees. His argument against them is that no one 256 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,720 saw the Father in the Old Testament. In Exodus, when there was the 257 00:22:52,799 --> 00:22:57,519 manifestation of God at Mount Sinai, that was not the Father. He says, 258 00:22:57,559 --> 00:23:03,480 it was me. Moses wrote about me, Moses and Abraham believed in 259 00:23:03,559 --> 00:23:10,279 me. So he is identifying himself with the manifestation in the burning bush. 260 00:23:10,319 --> 00:23:15,319 If you go back to Exodus three and compare that with Exodus twenty three, 261 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,759 you will notice that God says, I will put my name, my divine 262 00:23:18,839 --> 00:23:25,839 name of godway in my angel, the messenger Angel of the Lord that speaks 263 00:23:25,839 --> 00:23:32,440 in the bush that goes before Israel. In the book of Exodus. Likewise, 264 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:34,680 Moses goes up on the mountain, and according to Paul and Second Corinthians, 265 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:40,039 he eats a meal with God now no one sees the Father. So 266 00:23:40,319 --> 00:23:44,079 Moses wasn't eating a meal with the Father. He's eating a meal with the 267 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,680 Lord, the Angel of the Lord, the second person of the Godhead, 268 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,839 who is a Theophany in the Old Testament in many, many, many passes, 269 00:23:52,079 --> 00:23:55,839 dozens of passages. We can go back to Genesis, the appearance to 270 00:23:55,880 --> 00:24:00,720 Abraham Genesis eighteen. Abraham has a meal with God. He's identified as like, 271 00:24:00,799 --> 00:24:04,960 yahweigh the Lord. How do you eat with God? Oh, it's 272 00:24:06,079 --> 00:24:10,119 just like Moses going up on the mountain and eating the meal with God. 273 00:24:11,039 --> 00:24:17,640 Who what God? Jesus ergo. Jesus is the one giving the covenantal meal 274 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,200 there and the law there. This is the giving of the Mosaic law. 275 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,400 The point of this is that the law, all of it, has a 276 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:30,960 telos, a purpose that Bryson has missed. It is not can I talk 277 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:37,319 the Gentiles into believing in the ceremonial commands and all six hundred or whatever commands 278 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:42,039 of the Torah, because we know that that can even literally be kept because 279 00:24:42,039 --> 00:24:45,640 there is no temple. In fact, Genesis forty nine predicted that when the 280 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:52,920 Messiah comes, the scepter will depart from Judah. Then comes Shiloh, to 281 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,079 whom the nations will look. That means one of the signs of the coming 282 00:24:56,119 --> 00:25:00,039 of the Messiah is the removal of the dividic lineage. It ends. It's 283 00:25:00,079 --> 00:25:03,799 done why because he is the fulfillment of the Davidic covenant, He's also the 284 00:25:03,799 --> 00:25:08,000 fulfillment of the Noea covenant. The Noah covenant is key because it shows us 285 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:12,680 that righteousness is not had by Mosaic law. It doesn't mean the Mosaic's law 286 00:25:12,759 --> 00:25:17,200 is bad. It has a purpose. But Bryson has again missed that purpose. 287 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:21,319 Because Jesus is the living Torah, the living Law, the New Moses. 288 00:25:21,559 --> 00:25:26,920 You see what about those commands? Do we keep those commands? Yes? 289 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:30,720 We do. In fact, there are multiple references throughout the New Testament 290 00:25:30,759 --> 00:25:34,519 to all kinds of ceremonial commands. Many of those ceremonial commands are cited by 291 00:25:34,519 --> 00:25:37,640 Paul. For example, in Corinthians, when he says not to muscle an 292 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:42,319 ox when he's treading out the grain. How does Paul apply that? Paul 293 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:48,599 specifically says, is it oxen? God is concerned about Ergo? No, 294 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:52,799 he wrote that for our benefit, he says, and the meaning of the 295 00:25:52,839 --> 00:26:00,160 passage. The spiritual meaning of this ceremonial command, this penal sanctioned command in 296 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:04,480 the Book of Deuteronomy is that ministers, who are symbolized by the oxen should 297 00:26:04,519 --> 00:26:10,200 have right to the field that they work. They should be able to eat 298 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,759 from the work that they do. In other words, ministers can make money. 299 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:18,680 That's Paul's point. Multiple times we see these principles applied in the New 300 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,359 Testament of ceremonial passages that are not done away with. They are still kept. 301 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,079 It's just that Bryson doesn't understand how they're kept. They're kept in a 302 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:32,759 different way than he thinks they're kept, and in fact, his understanding of 303 00:26:32,799 --> 00:26:37,799 the Jewish interpretation itself is wrong. The Mosaic Law was not given to the 304 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:41,200 nations to the gentiles. It was given to the people of Israel for them 305 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:47,240 to teach the nations about the true spiritual pedagogy and meaning of the commands. 306 00:26:48,039 --> 00:26:53,880 Paul says in Corinthians that uncircumcision and circumcision neither of these things matter. The 307 00:26:55,079 --> 00:26:59,920 keeping of the law is what matters. So you see later additions like circumcision 308 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,519 and Mosaic law do not make a person righteous, especially when the question is 309 00:27:03,519 --> 00:27:07,960 the inclusion of the gentiles. Bryson may not be aware of this, but 310 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:12,920 his dispute, his question was already solved in Acts fifteen, when they had 311 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:18,759 the counsel describing and deciding how gentiles could come into the Church, into the 312 00:27:18,799 --> 00:27:22,039 Covenant and be made right with God. And the decision is that what we 313 00:27:22,039 --> 00:27:26,519 ought not require anything more than was required of Noah. If Noah could be 314 00:27:26,559 --> 00:27:32,839 made righteous before God before circumcision and before the ceremonial laws given to Moses, 315 00:27:33,039 --> 00:27:38,400 then gentiles can be in Christ on the basis of the pattern of the covenant 316 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,759 given un to Noah. It's a very simple argument. And what did Jesus 317 00:27:42,759 --> 00:27:47,279 say? Here he who hears you, here's me. The Holy Spirit is 318 00:27:47,279 --> 00:27:49,559 given an acts to and Pentecost. That's the spirit that Jesus said in John 319 00:27:49,599 --> 00:27:53,519 sixteen he would send that would guide the church into all truth. And so 320 00:27:53,640 --> 00:28:00,519 unless he wants to himself, Pitt, Paul and the apostles against what Jesus 321 00:28:00,559 --> 00:28:04,599 said, then he needs to understand holistic interpretation of the whole Bible. We 322 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:10,839 don't just read passages or chapters without understanding the context of the entire Bible. 323 00:28:11,079 --> 00:28:17,119 Is that it one minute. The entire Bible gives us a holistic picture and 324 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:22,039 message from Genesis throughout the covenants. Although we have to the New Covenant, 325 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:26,039 you can't understand the totality of the Bible without each one of those successive covenants. 326 00:28:26,039 --> 00:28:30,839 Paul says in Corinthians that every one of those promises, covenant promises is 327 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:36,440 yea in Christ. Christ is the Telos of the law. That's why we 328 00:28:36,599 --> 00:28:40,319 don't have a temple. That's why we don't do animal sacrifices. And so 329 00:28:40,359 --> 00:28:44,440 if Bryson had read Hebrews or Galatians, he would know that the things that 330 00:28:44,519 --> 00:28:48,720 he thinks are still applicable are actually fulfilled. And I would go even further 331 00:28:48,759 --> 00:28:52,480 and say that not only does he not keep them, the Orthodox Church actually 332 00:28:52,519 --> 00:28:56,880 does still keep many of these commands because we have temples. Hebrews thirteen says 333 00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,200 that we have an altar in the churches, that those that serve at the 334 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:04,079 Tibernack will have no right to eat. That means they're still an altar. 335 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:10,519 Peter says that we are the Melkizadekian priesthood priests in Christ, we still have 336 00:29:10,559 --> 00:29:15,960 a priesthood. Orthodox churches are called temples we still have temples. Awesome. 337 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:21,000 And before we get into rebuttals, Jay, could you pin Bryson? I 338 00:29:21,039 --> 00:29:23,240 think because I was the last to speak that the other camera was on me, 339 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,039 so we do apologize for that, and then UM, I don't know 340 00:29:26,039 --> 00:29:30,000 how it works on zoom, but if we could pin Bryson and then um, 341 00:29:30,079 --> 00:29:33,559 once we get that done, just let me know and uh, and 342 00:29:33,599 --> 00:29:37,119 then we can get I saw him on the screen. I saw him, 343 00:29:37,119 --> 00:29:40,319 so he should be fine, perfect Bryson. Whenever you want to start. 344 00:29:40,319 --> 00:29:44,839 You have seven minutes for rebuttal only seven minutes, oh man, I wish 345 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,039 I could use some of the time. I yield it, but it's okay. 346 00:29:48,079 --> 00:29:52,759 Don't be seven minutes. If anybody goes back to my open est statement, 347 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:59,960 he debated precisely and exactly how I said, he will he never answered 348 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,319 the question about Matthew five, and he's not gonna tell you why he didn't 349 00:30:03,319 --> 00:30:06,480 answer it, but because he can't now. He went on to imply, 350 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:08,599 he said a little twenty one, and I recently watched the video of when 351 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,640 I asked the question at the live event, and you definitely said Luke twenty 352 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,480 four. I could possibly be mistaken. We could fact check that, but 353 00:30:15,559 --> 00:30:18,200 you kept talk about things being fulfilled. Well, let's go back to Matthew 354 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:22,400 five seventeen to twenty one, which I knew was not going to get answered. 355 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,559 This is why you made this thing about the whole bibble and jump straight 356 00:30:25,559 --> 00:30:27,720 to Paul, because this is what people typically do to try to use Paul 357 00:30:27,759 --> 00:30:33,960 to argue with Jesus. Jesus said until heaven and earth passed, not one 358 00:30:34,079 --> 00:30:38,440 job or tittle shout letting no wise passed from the law until all is accomplished. 359 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:44,000 So if heaven and nerve has not passed, everything can't be accomplished. 360 00:30:44,119 --> 00:30:48,400 That's very simple. And this is red letters, this is Jesus himself, 361 00:30:48,519 --> 00:30:52,200 and that is in context. So you have an issue if you claim these 362 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:56,559 things were fin field has heaven and earth passion, and then you talked about 363 00:30:56,599 --> 00:31:02,240 these things about the Temple of destroy so we can't keep a lot of the 364 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,839 commandments. That's absolutely correct. You are correct. This is the reason that 365 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:11,359 Orthodox Jews do not give animal sacrifices in the temple. But your issue is 366 00:31:11,519 --> 00:31:15,640 the to not have already discussed this in Joseiah and Second Samuel, rendering the 367 00:31:15,759 --> 00:31:19,240 bulls is replaced with prayers of the lips, because there was already a time 368 00:31:19,279 --> 00:31:23,599 where the temple was destroying, so God had already pit things in place for 369 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,759 these things to be happened. But that doesn't then nullify the commandments that are 370 00:31:27,799 --> 00:31:33,200 applicable to people outside of obviously priests, because a lot of the commandments do 371 00:31:33,319 --> 00:31:36,400 require a temple, but a lot but a good amount of them also don't. 372 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,599 But that doesn't change anything out that's changed anything at all. So when 373 00:31:40,599 --> 00:31:44,000 you say, Jesus, the fulfillment has heaven and nerve passed, yet Jesus 374 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:45,880 said that's required. So unless you can say that, you still have an 375 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,759 issue on your hand. And I'm sure that's gonna get avoided again. And 376 00:31:48,799 --> 00:31:53,319 the reason I brought up Papius and Uranius, it's not because I care much 377 00:31:53,319 --> 00:31:56,440 about their judgment. I'm so glad you brought it up exactly how I thought 378 00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:00,160 you would, because you admitted that pay this was the earliest, and we 379 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:05,920 know that because of a Rainius, because we don't have fragments of writings from 380 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:10,240 papists. And you have one issue. He didn't say he the one who 381 00:32:10,279 --> 00:32:14,200 said it was written by Matthew. A matter of fact, what papists said 382 00:32:14,279 --> 00:32:17,240 is that the Book of Matthew was originally written in Hebrew, and people translated 383 00:32:17,319 --> 00:32:21,680 the best they could. Now there's arguments over what he meant by that, 384 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,480 because we don't have the full excerpt of what he said. But what that 385 00:32:25,599 --> 00:32:30,839 shows is people already thought it was Matthew. They've been dogs Matthews. This 386 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:35,480 is very early, as you already said, so to claim that we need 387 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,640 the church to tell us what it is that would be interesting since people was 388 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:42,880 already reading the Gospels. They were already doing it even before papists. Obviously 389 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,880 that has to be the case. So I find that very very interesting. 390 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,200 Well, you talk about the twenty that's not the debate, don't really care. 391 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,640 You brought up, dude around to me twenty eight and twenty nine. 392 00:32:52,839 --> 00:32:54,279 I don't know if you knew them was the exact versions you were bringing up. 393 00:32:54,519 --> 00:33:00,680 But the last vest of twenty nine said the hidden things belonged to the 394 00:33:00,759 --> 00:33:05,200 Lord, but revealed things belong to us and our children forever that we fulfill 395 00:33:05,279 --> 00:33:07,079 all the words of this Torah, or follow all the words of this Tora. 396 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,599 That's once again off memory. So I probably got a word or two 397 00:33:09,599 --> 00:33:14,039 wrong, and you said, Matthew twenty four has already happened. But I 398 00:33:14,079 --> 00:33:16,319 think you switched it up a little bit later and said that something's happened something 399 00:33:16,359 --> 00:33:20,880 didn't, which I'm glad you did, because Matthew twenty four literally talks about 400 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,920 Christ's return, So unless you're saying Jesus has already came back, that also 401 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:29,720 wouldn't make sense scripturally. Now, as far as you taken Paul clearly out 402 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,279 of context. You talked about Galatians and he bought to ask fifteen and assumed 403 00:33:32,319 --> 00:33:38,039 I don't know these things. Very sad because as fifteen is about Paul helping 404 00:33:38,079 --> 00:33:42,559 the Gentiles turn to Christ. And I like that you brought up Noah because 405 00:33:42,599 --> 00:33:45,359 if you see the few laws that they had to do themselves, you need 406 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:49,960 to figure out what that is in oral tradition. That's like to talk about 407 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,440 so much. But what was beautiful about the Book of Acts, because all 408 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,880 these questions that you have are already answered. Paul himself later in Acts gave 409 00:33:55,880 --> 00:34:00,599 it animal sacrifice for himself and other and this is after Jesus died of rolls 410 00:34:00,599 --> 00:34:04,759 on the cross, and this is after Paul came to have accepted Jesus. 411 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,320 So now you have to explain to me what you said is true while Paul 412 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:13,360 gave an animal sacrifice. Secondly, they were trying to kill Paul because they 413 00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:16,639 people were saying that Paul was teaching against the law. Paul then corrected them 414 00:34:16,639 --> 00:34:22,960 and said Paul paula corrected him and said he taught the law perfectly. So 415 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,440 the claims that ch'all make about Paul or are really literally the claims that was 416 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:29,480 made in Acts if you read it, which I find, which I find 417 00:34:29,559 --> 00:34:32,000 hilarious. And then you brought up Relatians and a problem with when people read 418 00:34:32,039 --> 00:34:36,840 Paul. The reason why Peter has to tell you how long I got? 419 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:42,639 You have about two and a half minutes. Okay, hopefully that's enough. 420 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,320 Just thought me. I'll just ended no matter. But the reason why a 421 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,440 lot of people ignorantly take Paul out of context. I'm not saying to be 422 00:34:47,519 --> 00:34:52,239 disrespectful. That's the literal language Peter used, is because with Paul, you 423 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:53,599 can't read one line here in one line there. You have to read all 424 00:34:53,679 --> 00:34:58,039 five chapters of Galatians. You have to read all chapters of Romans. And 425 00:34:58,159 --> 00:35:00,840 what that means is Paul is literally the one in Romans two that said, 426 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,599 it is not the heroes of the law that are righteous before God, but 427 00:35:04,679 --> 00:35:07,719 it is the doors of the law that are justified. And then he went 428 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:12,719 on to tell you that the Gentiles kept the law without having the law, 429 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,039 but they kept the requirements of the law. And he said it was written 430 00:35:15,039 --> 00:35:19,360 on their hearts, which is a reference to Jeremiah thirty one. And then 431 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,079 you talk about the latitions. You need to know what he means, because 432 00:35:22,079 --> 00:35:24,679 if you read Thelations two, he says, you have died to the law 433 00:35:25,199 --> 00:35:30,119 and now you live to God. What does live to God mean? Because 434 00:35:30,119 --> 00:35:34,320 Paul talks about not sinning? How can you sin if there's no law? 435 00:35:35,079 --> 00:35:39,719 Sins transgression of the law that law of Moses. And Paul explains this in 436 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:43,880 Roman six. If you need to understand what it means, I can help 437 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:45,119 you out Romans. And by the way, I have nothing on my scranything. 438 00:35:45,159 --> 00:35:49,559 This is all of memory. By the way, Roman six he literally 439 00:35:49,599 --> 00:35:52,239 tells you what he means. When he says you're not under the law or 440 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:54,719 you're dead to the law, he's literally saying you don't sin anymore. He 441 00:35:54,800 --> 00:36:00,199 explicitly states this in Roman six. The reason you are not under the law, 442 00:36:00,199 --> 00:36:02,519 because he said the law is the knowledge of sin. So if you 443 00:36:02,679 --> 00:36:06,760 die the same way Christ died, which is what Paul says verbating him in 444 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,920 Roman six, then you are also resurrected in the same way Jesus was resurrected. 445 00:36:12,559 --> 00:36:15,239 And what that means is you no longer sin, your body parts are 446 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:20,719 no longer used for unrighteousness. Sin no longer reigns in your immortal body. 447 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,239 Then he literally tells you that's what not being under the law means anymore. 448 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:27,280 That's why he also said, like I said a few chapters earlier, that 449 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,880 the Gentiles kept the law without having it. So I don't know if you 450 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,239 understand what Paul is saying, But I hope, I hope, I hope 451 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:42,360 the bad oh Jay, you have seven minutes on the clock. Yeah, 452 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:49,639 I mean the level of reading comprehension here and understanding what has been argued is 453 00:36:50,199 --> 00:36:53,960 it's it's sad, it's I feel like it's just flying past people's heads here. 454 00:36:54,119 --> 00:37:00,719 So I didn't say that everything was fulfilled in the temple being destroyed. 455 00:37:00,559 --> 00:37:05,639 I said that heaven and earth passed away in the sense of Christ coming in 456 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,320 judgment. That coming in judgment is what he mentions in Luke twenty one in 457 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:14,039 Matthew twenty four to the generation standing in front of him that they would see 458 00:37:14,079 --> 00:37:17,440 these signs. And yeah, I'm very familiar with the covenant curses in Deuteronomy 459 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:22,280 and Leviticus, and those curses are applied in the Book of Revelation, because 460 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:27,960 every one of those covenant curses rolls out upon the city that's identified in the 461 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,880 Book of Revelation as the place where our Lord was crucified. So, in 462 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:36,280 other words, the text that you're talking about are referring to actually the destruction 463 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,360 of Jerusalem. They're not talking about the end of the world, but they 464 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:44,159 have a fulfillment also mirrored wise at the end of the world. And we 465 00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:47,840 know this from the abomination of desolation, which is cited in the Book of 466 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:53,039 Daniel and in the Maccabees. Did you know that that abomination of desolation already 467 00:37:53,079 --> 00:37:58,360 happened? Did you know it already happened? And so when Jesus is referring 468 00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:00,800 to it, he's saying that the same thing that happened in the destruction of 469 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,760 the temple the first time, and in the defilement of the temple of the 470 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,280 Maccabees, that it's going to happen again in this day. This generation will 471 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:13,599 not pass away until all of these things are fulfilled. So you just simply 472 00:38:13,639 --> 00:38:16,559 ignored and didn't listen to anything that I said. And you don't comprehend partial 473 00:38:16,599 --> 00:38:24,000 pretorism because you confuse it with full pretorism. When the Book of Hebrews describes 474 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:28,559 the heaven and earth, the heavens and earth being rolled up like a scroll 475 00:38:28,599 --> 00:38:34,480 and passing away, the book is describing it from the citations and texts like 476 00:38:34,559 --> 00:38:38,559 Isaiah, and it's saying that when the temple is removed, that will be 477 00:38:38,599 --> 00:38:42,920 the fulfillment of these things. You see, the whole Book of Hebrews is 478 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:49,079 about the passing away of the Mosaic administration in Israel. And you don't even 479 00:38:49,119 --> 00:38:52,239 apparently know that in seventy a d. That's what happened. It was destroyed 480 00:38:52,599 --> 00:38:59,719 and the Covenant went to the Gentiles. Jesus says in the Gospels that this 481 00:39:00,039 --> 00:39:05,400 nation will lose the kingdom and it will go to the Gentiles. That's the 482 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,760 Gentile Church that occurred in the first, second, third, fourth, fifty 483 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,840 sixth centuries, which, by the way, you don't have any connection to 484 00:39:12,079 --> 00:39:15,039 your sect, doesn't exist back then. You don't have any connection to any 485 00:39:15,079 --> 00:39:19,440 of those people because your church is in a church, a made up thing, 486 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,199 you see. But Jesus said that the gates of Hell would not prevail 487 00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:27,559 against his kingdom. His kingdom was set up in the apostles that he established 488 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,599 who he said, he that hears you, here's me. Who do you 489 00:39:30,639 --> 00:39:37,800 think ordained Irenaeus and Papius. Jesus's apostles ordained these men, that succession comes 490 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:43,519 from them. And you said, again, I'm glad that you cited Irenaeus 491 00:39:43,559 --> 00:39:46,320 and Papius because they cited the gospels. That wasn't my challenge to you. 492 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:51,360 The challenge was why, on your view are we supposed to care what Papius 493 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,840 or Ironaus, people that you think are heretics, say. Why would a 494 00:39:54,920 --> 00:40:00,400 heretic tell us the Bible and its books? In your view? Tell me 495 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,639 that I want to know when we get to the next section, because it's 496 00:40:02,679 --> 00:40:07,880 pick and choose. It's arbitrary. Paul says, the definition of a heretic 497 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,599 as a person that picks and chooses. Your whole approach here is, I'm 498 00:40:10,599 --> 00:40:15,880 going to pick and choose the sections of Jesus that I think are truth because 499 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:20,760 it aligns with my presuppositions. And it's actually you that sets Paul against Jesus. 500 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:25,159 What I said harmonizes Paul and Jesus. We can't take verses or sections 501 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:30,039 or people and pit them against one another. Paul did a sacrifice because the 502 00:40:30,079 --> 00:40:34,719 temple was not destroyed yet, and that was what we call a transition period 503 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:39,719 that's done when the temple's done. No longer do Jews or Christians worship in 504 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:44,719 the temple because it's gone. That was the sign that's fulfilled in Daniel nine. 505 00:40:45,159 --> 00:40:50,079 Daniel nine says when the Messiah comes, the temple's gone, eternal righteousness 506 00:40:50,119 --> 00:40:54,079 comes in. But in the New Testament we have references to sacrifices that continue 507 00:40:54,119 --> 00:41:00,480 on, like the sacrifice of the eucharists, which is in every Orthodox Church, 508 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:05,440 which has all of those things that you think you need, temple sacrifice, 509 00:41:05,599 --> 00:41:08,239 incense, in estaments, all of these things that you're really into, 510 00:41:09,039 --> 00:41:14,400 which are in the Old Testament, they're in the Orthodox Church. It is 511 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,679 the continuity with those things. You don't have any continuity with any of that. 512 00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:23,760 You're relying again on our saints. Papias are an as for getting the 513 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:29,039 cannon itself, or you don't have any criteria for why I'm supposed to accept 514 00:41:29,079 --> 00:41:35,320 Matthew, your criteria was because Papias cited it. So on what basis is 515 00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,079 one church father citing something? Tell me that that means it's inspired in part 516 00:41:38,079 --> 00:41:43,519 of the Bible. The Bible was decided as a canon centuries later. So 517 00:41:43,599 --> 00:41:46,599 all of your citations of Paul or Revelation or any of this stuff is simply 518 00:41:46,599 --> 00:41:52,000 your misunderstanding. It's totally out of accord with anything in the first thousand years 519 00:41:52,039 --> 00:41:55,280 of the Church. So if you don't have any representatives of your views in 520 00:41:55,320 --> 00:42:00,920 those time periods, then you're what's called a sectarian, you're called a heretic. 521 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:05,000 And I know the Old Testament very well. I gave you multiple verses 522 00:42:05,039 --> 00:42:08,079 about the deity of Christ in the Old Testament, Jesus giving the Law to 523 00:42:08,159 --> 00:42:12,039 Moses. You ignored all that because you don't want to go there. You 524 00:42:12,039 --> 00:42:15,519 don't want to go into Theophanes because that shows the purpose of the law. 525 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:20,679 If there's a temple rebuilt, are you gonna go to Israel and offer animal 526 00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:23,599 sacrifices. I know that you don't think it's necessary. I'm very aware of 527 00:42:23,639 --> 00:42:28,719 what rabbinical Judaism did, and I know it goes back to Ezra and when 528 00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,400 there wasn't a temple, they said, we can offer it sacrifices a prayer. 529 00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:37,239 Okay, So then you're admitting that it's not absolutely necessary for salvation that 530 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:43,000 we do animal sacrifices. But you're missing the obvious point of entire books of 531 00:42:43,079 --> 00:42:45,559 the New Testament, which is that you're an apostate and a heretic if you 532 00:42:45,679 --> 00:42:51,559 go back to doing those things. That's explicitly what Hebrew says. It says 533 00:42:51,599 --> 00:42:54,760 you've lost your salvation. Now in your case, I'm not knocking you on 534 00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:59,519 a personal level, but you're not at all even in the church. You 535 00:42:59,559 --> 00:43:02,639 have no connection to the branch, to the vine, to the sheepfold, 536 00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,719 to the tree, to the Covenant. The Covenant is given to the gentiles. 537 00:43:08,119 --> 00:43:13,360 Jesus says in that passage about the destruction of Jerusalem, all these things 538 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,719 will come upon this generation, the people standing in front of him. You 539 00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:20,480 will see the temple raise to the ground. He says, that happen in 540 00:43:20,559 --> 00:43:25,079 seventy eighty. That removes all of your stupid proof texts about fleeing on the 541 00:43:25,119 --> 00:43:30,159 Sabbath and doing this and that the temple is the Church. That's why Peter 542 00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:35,519 says the Church is the temple. Jesus is the cornerstone. The marriage Supper 543 00:43:35,519 --> 00:43:39,119 of the lamb that's described in Revelation five and six is the divine liturgy. 544 00:43:39,199 --> 00:43:44,400 It's the Eucharist. What does John c when he looks into heaven vestiments in 545 00:43:44,599 --> 00:43:50,920 sense, priests, that's the Orthodox Church on Earth. All right, we're 546 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:57,039 going to move into We're going to move into one hour of open floor debates 547 00:43:57,039 --> 00:44:00,280 get contentious, obviously, I expect some interruption. That's totally fine. I'm 548 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:04,239 gonna stay out of it. If things get to the point where you guys 549 00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:07,719 are talking over each other though, and we can't fully hear either of you, 550 00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:10,239 I will step in back and forth. Is totally fine. You guys 551 00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:14,840 have one hour um for open dialogue, and I do want to remind people 552 00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,119 there will be a thirty minute Q and a UM at the end of the 553 00:44:17,159 --> 00:44:21,840 debate, so you guys can super chat YEP, super chat in UM. 554 00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:24,519 The stream labs link is in the description as well as in the chat. 555 00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:30,239 There you go, guys, so it's not it's not two minutes each and 556 00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:35,639 they're doing it okay, real quick, do you want me to how do 557 00:44:35,639 --> 00:44:37,440 you guys want to do? Those two minutes each? Then I thought it 558 00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:42,199 was total total open flo. Okay, cool? Well then Bryson, go 559 00:44:42,199 --> 00:44:45,119 ahead, okay, um. I find it funny. I wrote a two 560 00:44:45,159 --> 00:44:47,480 things we said. Now you talked about reading comprehension. You said, I'm 561 00:44:47,519 --> 00:44:51,760 not listening to you, which is funny because objectively speaking, you're not listening 562 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:53,800 to me because everything you have stuff you claim that. I thought, I've 563 00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:57,480 already explained it to you. The Paul. I find it funny, and 564 00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:00,000 I did this on purpose. It's funny, Paul scriptures you brought up. 565 00:45:00,079 --> 00:45:01,519 I explained it to you. Not only did you not debunk it. I 566 00:45:01,559 --> 00:45:05,599 did that as a show of faith in hopes that you would answer my question 567 00:45:05,599 --> 00:45:08,639 about Matthew five and you still avoiding it as I predicted. What happened? 568 00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:14,159 Also answer, I answer, you just didn't like it. No, you 569 00:45:14,559 --> 00:45:16,199 never answered because I asked you it has heaven in her past? And oh 570 00:45:16,199 --> 00:45:19,360 a matter of fact, I said, heaven nern Did you you said heaven 571 00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:23,320 ned? Did? Yeah? I do apologize for that. You said heaven 572 00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:27,159 NERD. Did pass show me a scripture that said heaven nerf has already passed. 573 00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:30,599 Show me any Bible scripture that says that period. Yeah, so the 574 00:45:30,639 --> 00:45:34,199 Book of Hebrews in Hebrews one, and I'm saying that the Book of Hebrews 575 00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:39,440 is about the removal of the earthly administration of the temple. Show me when 576 00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,880 the Bible says heaven and nerth has passed. I just said the Book of 577 00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,239 Hebrews, Hebrews one talks about heaven and earth passing away. The book is 578 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:49,719 about the removal of the temple. So I just want to be clear. 579 00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,599 Are you claiming that Hebrews one said heaven and nerth has already passed away. 580 00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:57,159 It says the removal of the temple is the sign of heaven and earth passing 581 00:45:57,199 --> 00:45:59,559 away. I want, I want, I want the words heaven and ner 582 00:45:59,639 --> 00:46:02,039 pa has passing away, because in second the Bible works, that's how you 583 00:46:02,119 --> 00:46:08,599 think it is, though, it's that's how think it works ever literal okay, 584 00:46:08,639 --> 00:46:14,719 So so we only believe what's explicit in the Bible right right now. 585 00:46:15,159 --> 00:46:17,480 The question your best answers to say, you can't find it, and that 586 00:46:17,599 --> 00:46:23,599 and nothing I said in Hebrews one, it's about the removal of the heavenly 587 00:46:23,639 --> 00:46:30,960 administration. The whole book is about that. So tell me the verse, 588 00:46:30,079 --> 00:46:34,519 and he was he was pretty short chapter. Tell me the verse and Hebrews 589 00:46:34,559 --> 00:46:37,599 one that says heaven and Earth has already pased. Which verse says that heaven 590 00:46:37,639 --> 00:46:40,400 and earth will pass away. It'll be rolled up like a scroll. Yes, 591 00:46:40,559 --> 00:46:43,679 heaven will pass away. Its talk about so talk about the future. 592 00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,079 No, it's not that's not well. Hebrews was talking about the destruction of 593 00:46:46,119 --> 00:46:50,519 the temple, which is still in the future. He so real quick though, 594 00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:55,519 Heaven and being rolled up is what is meant in the temple administration being 595 00:46:55,559 --> 00:46:59,519 destroyed, because the temple is heaven on earth. You understand, it's a 596 00:46:59,599 --> 00:47:01,639 symbol of the whole universe, the three heavens. Yeah, so I find 597 00:47:01,639 --> 00:47:07,760 it interest you're not so. No, that's a two minute back and forth, 598 00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,000 though I didn't talk for too minutes at all. Yeah, that's why 599 00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:14,920 I'm confused, Like, how do you guys want to do that? Snap? 600 00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:16,679 Oh, snap hold on that. Okay, nice about you all up? 601 00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:22,079 Uh, but yeah, which is cool, But just just realise you 602 00:47:22,079 --> 00:47:25,360 want to read this bottle verse second Peter ten. But the day day of 603 00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:30,880 the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away 604 00:47:31,559 --> 00:47:35,480 for a roar, and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and 605 00:47:35,519 --> 00:47:38,639 the earth and its works will be discovered. And then it tells you again 606 00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:45,119 later in second Peter beautifully written how it told you that heaven and nerf you 607 00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:46,719 need to be looking for a signe of a new heaven and earth. And 608 00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:50,679 then it tells you again a revelation of twenty one that's talking about when Jesus 609 00:47:50,679 --> 00:47:53,360 coming back. So there's no it will be fine. You just that there's 610 00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:55,159 no verse that says and that'd be great, though, No, I just 611 00:47:55,199 --> 00:48:00,039 think you have a misunderstanding based on not having a canonical interpretation of the entirety 612 00:48:00,039 --> 00:48:04,599 of the message. The entirety of the message is about the symbolism of the 613 00:48:04,639 --> 00:48:07,719 temple being taken away and being destroyed. So you understand that when Paul talks 614 00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:14,199 about the base elements, that's what Hebrews is talking about. In the base 615 00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:17,480 elements of the administration of the temple's circumcision, the show bread, all of 616 00:48:17,519 --> 00:48:22,679 those things are being taken away, rolled up, and destroyed in seventy eight 617 00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:24,800 D. That's what the Book of Revelation is about. Guess what. That's 618 00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:29,440 why Revelation says these things are soon to come to pass. You know, 619 00:48:29,519 --> 00:48:32,719 John wrote that to actual churches in Asia Minor. Do you understand that like 620 00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:36,639 some of those churches are still with us today, they still exist, they're 621 00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:40,960 Orthodox churches like in Ephesus. Right, So John wrote a letter to a 622 00:48:42,119 --> 00:48:45,400 church in his day in Ephesus. I believe he's writing before seventy eight D. 623 00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:47,719 And he says the things in the Book of Revelation are soon to come 624 00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:52,719 to pass. And it describes a destruction of a city where Jesus was crucified. 625 00:48:53,639 --> 00:48:58,719 That's Jerusalem, that happened in seventy eight D. So I want to 626 00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:02,639 go back to in my cross examination the question of your explanation as to why 627 00:49:02,679 --> 00:49:07,599 we're supposed to accept Matthew, because everything you say relies on in your argument 628 00:49:07,639 --> 00:49:09,960 here on Matthew, you said Poppius and Ernais, why am I supposed to 629 00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:13,559 care what Papius and Erna said? How does that tell me it's inspired and 630 00:49:13,559 --> 00:49:20,039 an authoritative? Uh? I can answer that again like I answered it before. 631 00:49:20,119 --> 00:49:22,519 You know the reason I brought it up. The reason I brought up 632 00:49:22,559 --> 00:49:27,559 papist and Ranius specifically, is because how you admitted and I've already said this, 633 00:49:27,599 --> 00:49:30,840 by the way, but you already can see at the point that Papias 634 00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:36,119 is the earliest um earliest person to even talk about the Goths. That is 635 00:49:36,159 --> 00:49:37,719 early tell us that this authoritative and supposed to be in the cannon. That 636 00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:42,480 doesn't prove anything. You're just assuming he's earlier that talked about it, and 637 00:49:42,679 --> 00:49:45,960 you're amitting that Papias does that tell me it's supposed to be in the Canada 638 00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:51,360 Scripture. You're admitting that Papias said that Matthew was originally written in Hebrew and 639 00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:54,320 people interpreted the best they could correct. You're just stating facts about the book. 640 00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:57,400 I want to know how I'm supposed to know that that means it's in 641 00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:00,519 the cannon and authoritati. So as as I said previously when I brought it 642 00:50:00,599 --> 00:50:04,360 up the other time, the reason why that's important is not because he's claiming 643 00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:07,760 something's authoritative or not. It's because if the way is read and of course 644 00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:10,719 we have fragments, as I said before, we don't have the full excerpts, 645 00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:14,599 but because of that we know that it was already viewed that way before 646 00:50:14,679 --> 00:50:17,480 him. He's we who you keep appealing to things that don't actually tell me 647 00:50:17,559 --> 00:50:22,519 the criteria. How do you know that's the right criteria? That's what the 648 00:50:22,599 --> 00:50:25,679 right criteria? That what is the right criteria for candidicity, for authoritation, 649 00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:30,920 for authoritative RELI This is not about the candidate. This was before any candida. 650 00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:34,119 Well, I'm telling I'm telling you that. So so I'm telling you 651 00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:37,079 that if Papists was the earliest person to talk about how do we know that 652 00:50:37,199 --> 00:50:42,840 early? Makes it? That? You just keep assuming the argument it's circular. 653 00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,960 No, you're not listening. You're not listening, and I don't know 654 00:50:45,039 --> 00:50:49,719 how say you're not understanding what epistemic criteria is. I just want to know 655 00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:52,039 how you know that. What's the basis for that? You just keep saying, 656 00:50:52,039 --> 00:50:53,440 well, it's earlier. Wait, well, no, I said that 657 00:50:53,639 --> 00:50:58,519 papist You you said this, that Papists was the earliest person talking about the 658 00:50:58,519 --> 00:51:01,760 gospels. Correct, No, to talk about Matthew being the disciple of Jesus 659 00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:09,840 who talks about the Gospels earlier than Papists. It doesn't matter because none of 660 00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:13,679 these things tell me the criteria to know what makes So why not? Why 661 00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:16,079 not? Why not just admit what you've already admitted. I don't even I 662 00:51:16,119 --> 00:51:19,719 don't even know why this conversation has to be this because you're avoiding an obvious 663 00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:22,480 question. I want to know how you'm answering your question. You're not You're 664 00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:29,000 relying on Orthodox Church. You're relying on Orthodox Church tradition. Uh. Why 665 00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:37,559 I've answered that probably three times. That's not answer again? No my answer, 666 00:51:37,639 --> 00:51:39,519 and I will actually go DV. You can like hold my two minutes 667 00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:43,199 across themination. I'll try to answer this question one more time for him. 668 00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:46,159 Um, the reason I brought Papius up. You asked me a question about 669 00:51:46,159 --> 00:51:49,360 why I brought him up, and I'm about to tell you again why I 670 00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:51,480 brought him up. You don't have to rehearse it. We all know what 671 00:51:51,559 --> 00:51:55,480 happened. You're just avoiding the question. You know what. Never mind, 672 00:51:55,599 --> 00:51:58,920 I don't care about it no more. Now I try to do it. 673 00:51:59,639 --> 00:52:01,519 It's okay. We can go to my two minutes fill of busting to burn 674 00:52:01,599 --> 00:52:08,039 out the time and not answering the question how can I burn out time? 675 00:52:08,079 --> 00:52:10,599 If I purposely tell him to pause of time, it don't start my time? 676 00:52:10,639 --> 00:52:13,760 How can I How can I burn it out? We'll go to Bryson's 677 00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:15,679 two minutes for for his cross exam, and then we'll go back to you, 678 00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:17,679 Jack, Sure, thank you, And I'm just going back to the 679 00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:21,639 same thing. I reread Hebrews One, just make sure I wasn't missing nothing, 680 00:52:21,679 --> 00:52:22,599 even though, like I know the book of Hebrews and I knew I 681 00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:29,440 wasn't literally nut zilch absolute this zero and Hebrew wants even implies that heaven and 682 00:52:29,519 --> 00:52:31,039 Earth has passed. So I will ask you again, and all I want 683 00:52:31,119 --> 00:52:34,760 for you to admit the truth so we can have a notest conversation and honest 684 00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:38,679 dialogue. Can you admit that nowhere in the Bible doesn't say that heaven and 685 00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:42,719 Earth has already passed? Can you at least admit that, Senson. I'm 686 00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,320 not saying you you can't believe that it has passed. I'm just saying, 687 00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:50,599 can you admit that nothing in the scripture says heaven and earth has already passed? 688 00:52:57,239 --> 00:53:00,519 Sorry, I was muted there. So Hebrews One says heaven and earth 689 00:53:00,599 --> 00:53:04,320 will pass away. Your work will not pass away. They will perish, 690 00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:07,679 You will grow, They will grow old like a garment, like a cloak. 691 00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:09,960 You will roll them up. So I just cited the passages that you 692 00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:14,000 said wasn't there. It is there, and I'm saying that it's about the 693 00:53:14,039 --> 00:53:16,239 destruction of the temple. Now you have a different interpretation, and I'm just 694 00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:21,800 simply pointing out your interpretation Number one doesn't make any sense because you pitted Paul 695 00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:24,440 against Jesus. But you didn't tell me why I'm supposed to follow Matthew. 696 00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:29,159 Why as Matthew authoritative in your it's my time, it's my time. You 697 00:53:29,159 --> 00:53:31,159 can you can react your question again. It's like I react my um bass 698 00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:35,079 as heaven will pass. Like, bro, this is not like you've been 699 00:53:35,199 --> 00:53:42,719 unnecessarily difficult there you're not aware of basic positions and exitgen what Let me repeat 700 00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:45,360 myself again. I say, when somebody said it wasn't even there, I 701 00:53:45,519 --> 00:53:50,239 cited you the text. It's no one. I say. Listen what I 702 00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:52,239 say it is. You can have your belief in your interpretation or something. 703 00:53:52,679 --> 00:53:57,159 I'm just asking, can you admit that nothing in the scripture says that heaven 704 00:53:57,199 --> 00:54:00,360 and Earth has already passed? You just know any interprets the Bible, only 705 00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:05,679 heretics do that where they think that literally a phrase has to be explicitly expelled 706 00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:07,679 out according to you. I'm not saying that has to be your criteria. 707 00:54:07,679 --> 00:54:10,679 I'm just asking do you ask you did? You said? That's what you 708 00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:15,880 said. Your argument is that it has to be explicitly there Where where does 709 00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:17,639 the Bible? I'm asking you a question, where does the say anywhere? 710 00:54:19,639 --> 00:54:22,880 It does say it. I just gave you the text. Hey, bro, 711 00:54:23,039 --> 00:54:30,599 you can, you can? You can minutes, but real quick, 712 00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:35,000 when when it's someone's two minutes on their time to do the cross examination, 713 00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:37,639 they can. Let's make it so that they can interrupt and they can redirect. 714 00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:42,280 Um. And then it'll flip flop to where when the next person's time 715 00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:45,000 is going, they can interrupt and they can redirect. I'm just forgetting who's 716 00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:47,679 going. That's that's all good. UM, It's it's you going now, 717 00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:51,440 Jay, two minutes on the clock. Yeah. So I'm gonna put my 718 00:54:51,559 --> 00:54:54,880 question again to you in a very simple way. You tell me on your 719 00:54:55,159 --> 00:55:02,760 view, why is the Book of Matthew authoritative and inspired? In your view, 720 00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:07,119 given that the way that we know that, the only way we know 721 00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:15,119 that, it's via tradition that comes from the Orthodox Church. Well, I 722 00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:20,159 think you're having a preconceived notion right here, meaning I've never said anything about 723 00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:22,760 bad about tradition, So I find that weird that you brought it up. 724 00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:29,800 But you appealed to papias. Okay, you appealed to papists, Okay, 725 00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:36,440 just as I said, did not reason. The reason I brought up papists 726 00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:43,480 is because it proves that even before papists people already viewed the Book of mass 727 00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:47,920 That doesn't prove anything. It just proves that it doesn't prove that it's authordative 728 00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:52,000 and inspired. That people believe that people believe false gospels are athwardative and inspired. 729 00:55:52,159 --> 00:55:55,840 Why don't we follow that's that that's part of iranious arguments that people are 730 00:55:55,880 --> 00:56:00,320 believing in false gospel, So correct, I'm not disagreed with that. How 731 00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:05,119 do we know? I just said it, so you didn't. You're not 732 00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:08,840 because the earliest is you don't have an answer. It's because the earliest that 733 00:56:09,039 --> 00:56:13,400 we can go back in history that we can ask to see what are all 734 00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:19,079 to ask? Churches were already using that, begging the question, how do 735 00:56:19,159 --> 00:56:22,599 we know that that's the right criteria for canonicity because an old church did it? 736 00:56:22,199 --> 00:56:28,480 So no, we know because the guy again at the Gospels were already 737 00:56:28,599 --> 00:56:31,679 viewed as inspired by begging the question. You're asking the question of what the 738 00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:37,679 gospels are, and you're citing the gospels. That's a fallacy. What is 739 00:56:37,679 --> 00:56:45,719 the fallacy again? Question? Question? Are you added in? I feel 740 00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:49,239 about you are citing gospels? About how we know what the gospels are? 741 00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:52,960 That's a fallacy of circulations. Now, Bryson, it's your time for your 742 00:56:54,039 --> 00:56:58,480 gospels. Dude. No, I think you I think you listened to responding 743 00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:07,119 you don't actually listen to what you say is just bad argument. It's not 744 00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:12,559 understand all right, all right? Cool? So um again now because I 745 00:57:12,639 --> 00:57:15,920 got two minutes, right, so I'm trying to make it quick because he 746 00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:19,440 could he had no response from Matthew Files has him the twenty one outside of 747 00:57:19,519 --> 00:57:22,400 saying that heaven and never has already passed with no evidence of that, which 748 00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:30,559 I find fairly Um. Yeah, but that's that's not what that's not what's 749 00:57:30,599 --> 00:57:32,639 not what you ask. But but you don't know anything about it. I 750 00:57:32,719 --> 00:57:37,199 mean, just let's let Bryson ask his questions and then it's your time. 751 00:57:37,199 --> 00:57:42,880 You can interrupt. Okay, so he rehearsing relations Yeah, cross example is 752 00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:45,800 leading to a question. By the way, Revelation twenty one tells you when 753 00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:47,519 heaven an air will pass, and this involves Jesus coming back. So my 754 00:57:47,599 --> 00:57:52,119 next question is that you believe Jesus already came back. Yes, he came 755 00:57:52,199 --> 00:57:54,760 in judgment upon the nation of Israel and seventy eight d, which is what 756 00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:59,000 he describes in Luke twenty one. You understand Luke twenty one says that it 757 00:57:59,039 --> 00:58:01,440 will happen to this narration, that he will come in judgment with the Roman 758 00:58:01,559 --> 00:58:06,159 nation to destroy the temple. Okay, So now again somewhere, so you 759 00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:08,360 believe that Christ has already came like a beef in the night? This view 760 00:58:08,519 --> 00:58:12,199 if you had listeners instead of trying to talk so fast. I said that 761 00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:15,440 earlier, but I repeat what you said and wrote it all down, and 762 00:58:15,519 --> 00:58:19,239 I literally, I literally quoted you. I literally quoted you saying heaven if 763 00:58:19,239 --> 00:58:21,719 it's already passed, I'm trying to and I'm trying to get to the point 764 00:58:21,719 --> 00:58:24,280 of why you believe that. So all just be quie a quick second. 765 00:58:24,519 --> 00:58:29,079 So I think our main issue is you believe that Christ has already came back 766 00:58:29,079 --> 00:58:32,000 like a beef in the night. And I'm what you don't even I think 767 00:58:32,039 --> 00:58:36,840 that is all right. Bro, I honestly don't even care to one about 768 00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:39,639 Kyloe. You have thirty seconds on the clock. I don't go. You 769 00:58:39,719 --> 00:58:43,119 can yet it, bro, I have I don't even care you can you 770 00:58:43,119 --> 00:58:45,360 can yet it. This is not this is not fruitful, okay. Um. 771 00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:49,320 I think the audience from the chat audience is finding it fruitful. We 772 00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:51,639 can go to Jay, um, but I think a lot of people in 773 00:58:51,679 --> 00:58:53,920 the audience are interested in hearing your point of view, Um, and Jay's 774 00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:57,840 point of view. I think they are finding it fruitful. Um. Jay, 775 00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:00,000 when whatever you want. You have asked you why the Book of Matthew 776 00:59:00,119 --> 00:59:04,320 is supposed to be a gospel that we accept and that it's authoritative. You 777 00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:07,079 said, because there was early mentions of gospels. That's begging the question. 778 00:59:07,199 --> 00:59:13,000 That's a fallacy. Yeah. So again, as I said, if you 779 00:59:13,039 --> 00:59:15,320 think at the earliest evidence we have of these things, which a lot of 780 00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:21,559 times do come from bishops, because Iranius was a bishop and Papists was also 781 00:59:21,639 --> 00:59:23,000 a bishop. Um, this is I don't understand. I keep bring up 782 00:59:23,039 --> 00:59:27,159 tdition like I talked against that in this in this conversation, which I haven't 783 00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:32,239 because of that I know because of Papists that Matthew was already viewed. So 784 00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:39,159 you inspired papists, So you appealed to the tradition, right, I just 785 00:59:39,239 --> 00:59:43,480 said that. Okay, So the way that you know that that book is 786 00:59:43,519 --> 00:59:45,679 in the Bible is our tradition. You don't find out a problem for your 787 00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:52,119 view, No, because it was obviously viewed as inspired before papists. That's 788 00:59:52,199 --> 00:59:57,519 that's it's not viewed as inspired by anybody in your made up group. Your 789 00:59:57,559 --> 01:00:00,639 group didn't exist. Where where was your group in any of this time? 790 01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:05,840 My group? Yeah? What group you speaking of? Whatever your group is, 791 01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:08,000 I don't know. So I mean, how are you asking the question 792 01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:12,519 if you don't know what you're sacked? Where was it in the first seven 793 01:00:12,599 --> 01:00:15,519 centuries? What would you call them? A sex? And I say, 794 01:00:15,639 --> 01:00:17,519 I don't what I believe you you don't name it. So you're telling me, 795 01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:21,360 okay, well, based on what I believe, my sick is the 796 01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:25,199 people that I don't know, um follow Jesus in the Bible representatives of those 797 01:00:25,239 --> 01:00:30,480 people in the first I mean, they were all there. And the fact 798 01:00:30,519 --> 01:00:32,039 is the people that you have any reference to prove that people in that time? 799 01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:36,519 Yes, yes, and your name is Paul. Paul kept saying, 800 01:00:36,559 --> 01:00:38,400 because the second, third, fourth, sixth seven, I'm talking about the 801 01:00:38,519 --> 01:00:43,840 Originals. Where is the church? You're a group? Paul keeps having there. 802 01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:46,199 Okay, so it died. Do you think the church died that Paul 803 01:00:46,239 --> 01:00:49,519 keeps having yes, something, I just want to know. How about Peter? 804 01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:52,760 How about James? I mean, this is me and Terro getting your 805 01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:58,159 group. So there's not your group gave you. It doesn't exist for seven 806 01:00:58,239 --> 01:01:00,000 centuries. No, if you have to do your research. People that were 807 01:01:00,039 --> 01:01:04,519 called John asking you because you did the research on your just I just I 808 01:01:04,639 --> 01:01:07,119 just, I just I want to know you tell me where. Don't tell 809 01:01:07,159 --> 01:01:10,159 me to do the research in a debate you're supposed to bring the research. 810 01:01:10,199 --> 01:01:15,679 I just I just answered. That'll be time on this. Bryson. You 811 01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:20,400 have two minutes for your cross examination of Jano. You can even give him 812 01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:22,960 my next two minutes. But I already I already answered the question. I 813 01:01:23,039 --> 01:01:28,639 said you haven't answered I did. I said, you ain't answered shit, 814 01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:31,800 dude, So let me ask a question where you said you said go look 815 01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:36,360 it up? Where is your group? Where's an example? This is why 816 01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:38,639 you need to talk lesson where is the example. Okay, because if you 817 01:01:38,679 --> 01:01:43,159 actually quiet down for a bit, if you let me finish my statement, 818 01:01:43,199 --> 01:01:49,719 you would have heard me say you have done. You said, go do 819 01:01:49,840 --> 01:02:00,159 some research. You said, go do some research? Where was your group 820 01:02:00,199 --> 01:02:07,960 in those centuries? So pure silence, right, I don't even want you 821 01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:09,960 ask the question, cause you don't even care if somebody answers it or not. 822 01:02:10,039 --> 01:02:14,039 You didn't answer. I don't let people not answer. And just ram 823 01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:19,519 I did answer. You Just you trying to deflect because you got pinned down. 824 01:02:19,559 --> 01:02:22,400 You want to make it and I didn't answer. Clearly, I clearly 825 01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:28,400 answered your question. I heard talk so much to God every time. That's 826 01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:31,880 not That's not the only thing I said. Where is your group and those 827 01:02:32,119 --> 01:02:36,079 It's a simple question, quick, matter of fact matter. If I will 828 01:02:36,159 --> 01:02:37,360 use my I will use part of my two minutes when his hi minute is 829 01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:40,159 up, uh to answer his question for him without him in a round. 830 01:02:40,199 --> 01:02:46,079 Go ahead, go ahead and google your group in those centuries. Hurry up. 831 01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:49,440 I don't have to. I don't have to google in the things a 832 01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:51,320 matter of fact, I had I haven't. I haven't had to look up 833 01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:53,960 at the book, up the cell. Yeah, you're an amazing genius at 834 01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:58,159 this. We all know how smart you are, but you can't answer basic 835 01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:00,599 questions because in my two minutes, it's you gave up your last two minutes. 836 01:03:00,639 --> 01:03:05,079 You said, Jays, thirty more seconds on this two minutes, and 837 01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:07,639 you know you don't need it, don't need to give give up time or 838 01:03:07,639 --> 01:03:09,119 anything. I'm pausing it right now, real quick. I know that things 839 01:03:09,199 --> 01:03:14,840 get contentious. That's totally fine. Um, these are serious things you guys 840 01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:16,280 are talking about. The audience is getting a lot from it. So I 841 01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:20,320 do think it's fruitful to engage as best as we can. And Jay, 842 01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:22,840 you have twenty more seconds left on your cross exam before we go back to 843 01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:27,440 Bryson. Where was anyone that believes your views in the second, third, 844 01:03:27,519 --> 01:03:30,880 fourth, or sixth seventh centuries? They were always there from the Bible loan 845 01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:35,800 word. That's not a source that dude, Are you serious? Do you 846 01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:37,760 really think that that was an answer to you have no evidence for it. 847 01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:42,199 You just said there. They have a lot of evidence that where's some size, 848 01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:45,360 where's some sources site something? I will when your time is up, 849 01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:50,440 all right? That is that is time. M Bryson. You have two 850 01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:52,519 minutes on the clock. Okay, can you pause me at my one minute 851 01:03:52,559 --> 01:03:55,199 Martin, I'm I'm actually used a minute of mine to answer his question. 852 01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:59,599 Um, okay, all right. So like I said, like I said 853 01:03:59,639 --> 01:04:00,960 before, the reason say, if you do your research, you should have 854 01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:03,639 just stopped talking and let me finish what I was saying. My point of 855 01:04:03,679 --> 01:04:06,920 saying that if you do your research, they recalled what people call Nowaday's Jewish 856 01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:13,440 prisons have always existed from Biblical time onward. Some people view them ass Nazarenes, 857 01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:15,920 not the current Nazarenes, but they have literally always existed. A sect 858 01:04:15,960 --> 01:04:21,039 of followers of Jesus that kept the laws of tour has literally always existed. 859 01:04:21,880 --> 01:04:25,239 And the evidence is, like I said before, I mean literally in the 860 01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:30,559 Bible, since every single apostle that existed practice exactly like how I do, 861 01:04:30,719 --> 01:04:34,400 which I find quite funny. But even afterwards this is a sad a matter 862 01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:38,400 of fact, there's a lot of church file that's writings actually speaking against these 863 01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:43,079 people, calling them Judaeazers. And you know that as a great history buff 864 01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:46,639 yourself. So that was my answer, which means I did answer your question. 865 01:04:46,719 --> 01:04:49,159 If you don't like the answer, it's none of none of my problem. 866 01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:53,079 But I did answer it very clear for and this wasn't my answer, 867 01:04:53,159 --> 01:04:57,000 but you was talking too much. Now from my question to you, I 868 01:04:57,079 --> 01:05:01,840 really don't have anymore because you don't really um care about honest answers. Uh 869 01:05:02,119 --> 01:05:04,920 yeah, so go after motives, yeah, because that's all you have left 870 01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:09,440 because you don't have an answer. Yeah, so you you never you didn't 871 01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:13,000 answer. You just said they were there trying to rebut jay um yeah, 872 01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:15,559 race and go for these two minutes you can, you can rebut in and 873 01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:21,440 not about motives. That that is true. But let's let well, let 874 01:05:21,679 --> 01:05:25,559 we'll leave the interruptions. The only person who can interrupt is a person who's 875 01:05:25,599 --> 01:05:29,000 time it is. Yeah, we'll move forward that way. But I find 876 01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:31,760 I find an answeresting how he's now crying about motives when he's made at least 877 01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:34,000 ten claims about me in the last time. But I don't really care if 878 01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:36,239 I'm about to go tit for tat. That's not what a debate is supposed 879 01:05:36,239 --> 01:05:40,039 to be where I grown adults. Uh so again, I mean, the 880 01:05:40,119 --> 01:05:42,960 only thing is he said Jesus already came into beef them the night, and 881 01:05:43,199 --> 01:05:45,679 I guess that can be his interpretation. I can't tell him that can't be 882 01:05:45,719 --> 01:05:48,639 an interpretation. I think that is like a gross interpretation of what the scriptures 883 01:05:48,679 --> 01:05:50,679 have to say. And I would actually say he is in the minority on 884 01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:55,840 that, just like I'm in the minority amost Christians of um of believing that, 885 01:05:56,079 --> 01:05:59,280 uh, we still have to keep the law. Um. I really 886 01:05:59,280 --> 01:06:00,480 don't have any more question. I've like that's the contention. I like we 887 01:06:00,559 --> 01:06:03,519 figured out what the issue is. He believes Jesus came like a beef in 888 01:06:03,559 --> 01:06:05,519 the night. I don't believe that has happened yet, So I mean, 889 01:06:06,039 --> 01:06:09,760 I don't understand what else that will be to debate about. That's the crest 890 01:06:09,800 --> 01:06:13,440 of the issue right there. Okay, well, if if that's your time, 891 01:06:13,480 --> 01:06:16,159 will move over to Jay. Um. But the where the debate has 892 01:06:16,239 --> 01:06:20,280 gone, it seems like, is asking the question of how we know, 893 01:06:21,039 --> 01:06:25,400 uh, the interpretation is correct and things like that. That seems to be 894 01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:28,800 what Jay is trying to press. So yeah, the issue that that's not 895 01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:30,199 the debate at hand, that has intus to do with the debate that night, 896 01:06:31,920 --> 01:06:36,320 and I actually create is about who who is keeping Actually I actually predicted 897 01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:42,280 that that would be his debate in my opening statement it doesn't that, but 898 01:06:42,559 --> 01:06:45,000 but he can. He's not an argument. It's my time, dude. 899 01:06:45,599 --> 01:06:46,800 And I was about to say, if you keep asking questions, I would 900 01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:49,280 keep answer. I don't even care about having any more time as I did, 901 01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:53,920 so just be grateful that even gave you answer. Wasn't an answer, 902 01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:56,760 you just said they were there. That means you lost the debate. Dude. 903 01:06:57,559 --> 01:07:00,000 You can't. You can't give an actual You can't. I'm glad you 904 01:07:00,039 --> 01:07:03,159 think it's funny because everybody in the audience is laughing at you too. Dog. 905 01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:08,280 You can Most people are on your side because this is your YouTube channel. 906 01:07:08,519 --> 01:07:11,679 I don't really care about the audience says, to be fair real quick, 907 01:07:11,679 --> 01:07:15,119 guys, it's just like the same. It's just like you interacting with 908 01:07:15,159 --> 01:07:18,880 Sam Shamoon. Dude, this is would you say, chase and to be 909 01:07:18,960 --> 01:07:24,840 fair, guys, any in any debate, I think the question of epistemology 910 01:07:25,039 --> 01:07:29,639 is going to end up being a crux issue because either side, both of 911 01:07:29,679 --> 01:07:31,760 you are making knowledge claims about why you believe what you believe. And I 912 01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:38,119 think it's an extremely pertinent question in any debate, and you don't have any 913 01:07:38,159 --> 01:07:43,480 way to demonstrate that the church fathers that you just said that referred to Judoyazers. 914 01:07:43,559 --> 01:07:45,599 You don't have any proof that they have the same beliefs as you, 915 01:07:45,679 --> 01:07:48,159 because you don't know what those Judoyazers believed. You just said that they were 916 01:07:48,239 --> 01:07:53,320 there in all those centuries. No, what I claimed was they practice what 917 01:07:53,440 --> 01:07:57,400 I practice. A matter of fact, you're they didn't because you just may 918 01:07:57,599 --> 01:08:01,280 you have They didn't. They can't. They they didn't. You're making You're 919 01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:06,920 just asserting that you can't assertion. What is your evidence that in everyone? 920 01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:13,440 What is the evidence that not answer? Because you can't answer why you gotta 921 01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:16,000 because you did. You didn't answer it, You just asserted it. Do 922 01:08:16,039 --> 01:08:20,119 you know the difference version? And say, now he's got to talk over 923 01:08:20,239 --> 01:08:26,600 me because he knows he can't answer this question because I'll be QUI just keep 924 01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:30,279 talking about. You're a felowbusterer. Dude, you're a selfhist You can't debate. 925 01:08:30,359 --> 01:08:32,359 You don't even know what a circular argument is. You said the gospel 926 01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:39,760 Matthew is the gospel because it's early and decided by the gospels. How can 927 01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:44,600 you demonstrate time to cross examine why that's why you won't hush? How can 928 01:08:44,720 --> 01:08:49,359 you demonstrate that the people that you claim were your people in those centuries practiced 929 01:08:49,399 --> 01:08:55,399 all the things that you practice. You can't demonstrate that. I can't. 930 01:08:55,479 --> 01:08:58,039 Again, you just misrepresented what I said at the beginning. Was you typically 931 01:08:58,079 --> 01:09:00,239 do because you don't listen, you talk too much. Um. Secondly, 932 01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:02,640 I've already told you. That's why I say you have to do your research. 933 01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:06,359 If I make answer was my answer? You just asserted it. So 934 01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:11,119 you don't have evidence to back up the assertion you said. They just were 935 01:09:11,159 --> 01:09:14,520 there. They believe what I believe. I have an amblematic I have an 936 01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:16,680 ample amount of evidence, and I like how a debate you would bring the 937 01:09:16,720 --> 01:09:20,159 evidence. It might be a good idea to bring evidence to a debate instead 938 01:09:20,199 --> 01:09:24,920 of asserting it. Do you ever think about that? Well, you've already 939 01:09:24,960 --> 01:09:28,119 conceded to my point to be true. Down, I didn't anything. If 940 01:09:28,159 --> 01:09:30,119 you did, I admitted that the church. You admitted that a lot of 941 01:09:30,159 --> 01:09:33,119 early church files talked about Judy I was, didn't you? That doesn't mean 942 01:09:33,159 --> 01:09:35,319 they believe what you believe. You're just assert What is it, Judia? 943 01:09:35,439 --> 01:09:38,119 What did the church file say, JUDI? I was? Is? Do 944 01:09:38,119 --> 01:09:41,199 you think there's only one? Don't lie either? You think there's a lot. 945 01:09:41,439 --> 01:09:44,159 Don't accuse me a lot. And I just asked you you just got 946 01:09:44,239 --> 01:09:48,439 bond is you're so mad? What is juda because you claim to have got 947 01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:51,960 his two minutes on the on the clock for him to cross examine you know, 948 01:09:53,119 --> 01:09:55,640 Jake, thank you so dily man. You just claim somebody was mad. 949 01:09:55,640 --> 01:09:58,199 The only person mad here is clearly that is it. You're the only 950 01:09:58,239 --> 01:10:02,199 person they sent a heated way. No, you're debaying a very immature way, 951 01:10:02,199 --> 01:10:08,760 which is okay, that's called typical. Be quiet, be quiet and 952 01:10:09,199 --> 01:10:14,279 use his time and there on both sides. Um, let's well, Bryceidy 953 01:10:14,279 --> 01:10:17,359 pause the clock will let Bryson can talk. It should be directed ending up 954 01:10:17,399 --> 01:10:20,920 in some kind of point critique or question to Jay Um, but you have 955 01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:25,159 to be there, you go. It will be so since he's conceded that 956 01:10:25,239 --> 01:10:28,199 early church fathers uh, which is why I like he was in evidence that 957 01:10:28,279 --> 01:10:30,920 he has to concede to talk about Juday Ozers. I want him to explain 958 01:10:31,039 --> 01:10:35,920 to me what was the reason that church fathers called uh this group of people 959 01:10:36,199 --> 01:10:40,399 Juday Ozers. Please answer that question. That's a term used for a lot 960 01:10:40,439 --> 01:10:45,359 of groups. Why did the church fathers call a certain group of people, 961 01:10:45,399 --> 01:10:47,800 judaeis give me the why and ask you who they called why they taught the 962 01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:53,279 necessity of the Jewish law to be saved, which is the heresy that you 963 01:10:53,439 --> 01:10:57,279 repeat. That doesn't tell me that in every one of those centuries those groups 964 01:10:57,359 --> 01:11:01,920 taught everything that you taught. So you're just assuming, demonstrate, demonstrate the 965 01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:06,960 questions right now? Do you understand? Want to make it clear the reason 966 01:11:08,239 --> 01:11:11,960 the reason he just started over talking people in a chat because he just conceded 967 01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:20,199 that I was one hundred. Because you need to demonstrate, you need to 968 01:11:20,319 --> 01:11:24,800 demonstrate. Listen, judaizing, is it one group? Do you think it 969 01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:28,359 was one group? Bro? My belief system to keep the command is you 970 01:11:28,359 --> 01:11:30,279 just admitted that the church fathers have always talked about the set of people that 971 01:11:30,359 --> 01:11:39,159 they talk about about dozens of groups. Quiet talk about pause. I did 972 01:11:39,239 --> 01:11:44,640 pause the clock to be fair when um, when when rhetoric is is thrown 973 01:11:44,680 --> 01:11:47,359 at someone, they I think it's fair that if it's the other person's time 974 01:11:47,399 --> 01:11:51,079 and they're throwing rhetoric at them, that they can respond. But Bryce and 975 01:11:51,119 --> 01:11:54,359 you have the rest of the time to ask your questions. You're perform your 976 01:11:54,399 --> 01:11:57,760 critiques. Thank you so I do find anywi. It is the last thing 977 01:11:57,800 --> 01:12:00,439 I'm say. Helpel he doesn't interpret me before I'm finished. The reason he 978 01:12:00,520 --> 01:12:02,560 has to answer out because I said that people believe what I believe. He 979 01:12:02,640 --> 01:12:05,560 said, we don't know that. So I pressed him on what a Judayaza 980 01:12:05,680 --> 01:12:10,039 was and he just admitted that a Judayazer, according to the touch Fathers, 981 01:12:10,199 --> 01:12:14,000 was somebody that thinks, thus the law was a necessity, which is quite 982 01:12:14,079 --> 01:12:15,680 clear that he knows what I believe, which I texted him it is my 983 01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:20,640 belief system. So he just admitted that my group of people have always existed, 984 01:12:20,680 --> 01:12:25,199 which is why he's now about to deflect and say, well, different 985 01:12:25,239 --> 01:12:29,399 types of judayazas, because he has officially, objectively speaking, lost this point. 986 01:12:30,319 --> 01:12:35,399 I specifically said that your claim was in every one of those centuries your 987 01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:41,439 group was represented. You then made your group so broad as to be anybody 988 01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:44,640 that's a quote Judayazer. But that term is used for even groups like the 989 01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:48,039 Nestorians. You're not a Nestorian, so that's a broad term. I don't 990 01:12:48,039 --> 01:12:51,880 know why you're dancing over there because you just got bodied. That's a broad 991 01:12:53,039 --> 01:12:57,319 term that doesn't prove anything. You just assumed your point in every How do 992 01:12:57,399 --> 01:13:00,600 you know that in every one of those centuries they held to the beliefs that 993 01:13:00,800 --> 01:13:08,319 you have as a body of beliefs, because my beliefs as them is simply 994 01:13:08,359 --> 01:13:11,920 to keep the commandments. I never said every aspect. That's not true. 995 01:13:12,119 --> 01:13:16,720 That's just like just like that, that's not just your belief system you have. 996 01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:20,840 You have a whole End Times philosophy appended to your book, just like 997 01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:25,960 how early church fathers disagree with later chang church fathers. Which is why exactly 998 01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:29,560 doesn't prove that your group existed in those centuries. So you just got caught. 999 01:13:30,199 --> 01:13:32,399 You made it didn't call anything you did. You made it so broad. 1000 01:13:34,439 --> 01:13:41,840 That's who judaizer is a general term, right, but it's used for 1001 01:13:41,920 --> 01:13:45,800 any group, and I said that it was. I said that it's groups 1002 01:13:45,279 --> 01:13:49,640 that believe that the Mosaic Law had to be kept. Do you understand that 1003 01:13:49,720 --> 01:13:55,560 amongst those groups there's dozens of groups, because it's not one group. That's 1004 01:13:55,600 --> 01:13:59,520 the your assumption that is just one group, it's not. That's why my 1005 01:13:59,640 --> 01:14:02,600 question to you was, you're a group in all those centuries. Your group 1006 01:14:02,760 --> 01:14:08,720 isn't just the belief of keep the Mosaic Law. You got other beliefs. 1007 01:14:08,760 --> 01:14:14,880 Don't you like anti trinitarian? Right? So are you only united to the 1008 01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:18,880 anti trinitarian Judeo guysers? Yeah, so he's not gonna answer, all right, 1009 01:14:18,880 --> 01:14:21,560 I pause the time. UM, I don't, I don't um. 1010 01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:27,199 I don't think it's fair to either of your time to um just just be 1011 01:14:27,359 --> 01:14:30,840 silent when being asked the question cross exactly, he's not gonna answer when So 1012 01:14:30,039 --> 01:14:32,680 he does this game because if you can give me one time, if you 1013 01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:35,560 can give me one time, he has allowed me to fully answer a question 1014 01:14:38,680 --> 01:14:43,319 here the real quick. Both both of you guys have done um plenty of 1015 01:14:43,640 --> 01:14:47,039 interrupting. It is a debate, obviously not true. Not just become a 1016 01:14:47,119 --> 01:14:54,079 cap you interrupted. If y'all are going to be disingenuous, not only care 1017 01:14:55,039 --> 01:14:59,119 everyone every single I don't think anyone's trying to be you all. I have 1018 01:14:59,279 --> 01:15:06,359 not interesting like me. You have. I mute, I mute my mic. 1019 01:15:06,439 --> 01:15:11,359 When this man answers you question, No, that's your sat the same 1020 01:15:11,399 --> 01:15:15,239 you don't answer. You stop, wait, let's stop one second. One 1021 01:15:15,319 --> 01:15:20,560 second. When it's when it's your time, you you can interrupt. It's 1022 01:15:20,640 --> 01:15:26,359 Jay's time right now, he can interrupt and then that's called examination. Can 1023 01:15:26,439 --> 01:15:29,800 I answer a question if he interrupts, It's like when you mute it and 1024 01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:32,920 don't answer it. Dude, that's you just gave every time, every gave 1025 01:15:33,039 --> 01:15:39,560 up you. First off, I watched a million professor to the base and 1026 01:15:39,600 --> 01:15:43,079 crosses, and I don't care how many of you answer. You got quiet 1027 01:15:43,079 --> 01:15:46,720 and doesn't matter fully answer the question. You didn't. You didn't. That's 1028 01:15:46,760 --> 01:15:50,640 not everybody. I didn't answer the question. This is your deflection because you 1029 01:15:50,720 --> 01:15:54,800 can't answer this isn't it if you have every one of your class have to 1030 01:15:54,840 --> 01:15:58,319 do this guy just talk to you didn't answer it? Starting to get it's 1031 01:15:58,399 --> 01:16:02,079 it's starting to get to the point just right that right now where the debate's 1032 01:16:02,119 --> 01:16:09,039 not moving forward because we're arguing about the debate itself. Let let me moderate 1033 01:16:09,239 --> 01:16:13,520 the debate. Okay, let me moderate the debate. That's a nice person's 1034 01:16:13,600 --> 01:16:16,000 time on cross exam. Dude, got a fake look at this, fake 1035 01:16:16,119 --> 01:16:21,359 laugh, fake you're you're just a typical person. You got quiet. That's 1036 01:16:21,399 --> 01:16:28,680 why you don't ask you a question. They're quiet because you're shook. Hey, 1037 01:16:28,760 --> 01:16:30,560 Jay diet J question, do you honestly I do want to know if 1038 01:16:30,600 --> 01:16:33,760 you're just lying for no reason for your audience. Do you believe that's all 1039 01:16:33,800 --> 01:16:38,399 you got? That's all you got because you can't. You can't prove from 1040 01:16:38,720 --> 01:16:43,720 heretical group. Exam down. Just let me talk for four seconds. No, 1041 01:16:43,880 --> 01:16:46,159 because you're you're just all you want to do is talk about lying everybody. 1042 01:16:46,199 --> 01:16:49,760 Do you actually you embarrassed yourself? Bro? Bro Jane? Do you 1043 01:16:49,880 --> 01:16:53,880 actually believe that the reason I'm muting my mic is because I don't have answer 1044 01:16:53,920 --> 01:16:59,720 for your questions? Believe absolutely so? Can I? You can make faces 1045 01:16:59,720 --> 01:17:01,479 all you won't do it, that's not that's not gonna do anything, and 1046 01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:05,359 you can get upset. But the real issue here, bro Jay, this 1047 01:17:05,479 --> 01:17:14,159 wasn't me and you. I'm using rhetoric. Rhetoric is fine. Let's keep 1048 01:17:14,199 --> 01:17:17,159 it about the actual points, not meta. It's a joke. Why can 1049 01:17:17,239 --> 01:17:20,640 you answer that question? I can answer every question you pas so far. 1050 01:17:20,800 --> 01:17:27,000 Everyone know you didn't you understand just asserting things isn't an answer. Yeah, 1051 01:17:27,039 --> 01:17:29,079 And every time I try to explain to you how it wasn't just in certain 1052 01:17:29,119 --> 01:17:33,720 things, you got upset and continue interte united so judaizing groups in the fifth, 1053 01:17:33,800 --> 01:17:36,319 sixth, seventh century that we're say, Trin, is it my time 1054 01:17:36,399 --> 01:17:39,399 yet? Yeah, so he don't want to answer, so this is what 1055 01:17:39,640 --> 01:17:42,880 Yeah, so he's not gonna talk. The time was paused. So I 1056 01:17:43,039 --> 01:17:46,479 want everybody to see that he won't answer the specific question. I will answer 1057 01:17:46,520 --> 01:17:48,600 your question for the first mate of mine, but not to interrupt. No, 1058 01:17:48,640 --> 01:17:50,800 no, no, that's not that's not how That's not how it works. 1059 01:17:50,880 --> 01:17:55,399 So how cross examination works, how it remains fair is that the person 1060 01:17:55,439 --> 01:17:58,960 who's time it is, when it's your time rayson, you can interrupt as 1061 01:17:59,039 --> 01:18:03,000 much as as much as you'd like to keep the question focused. Jay has 1062 01:18:03,079 --> 01:18:08,439 thirty seconds left. If Jay goes silent, that's not fair to your time. 1063 01:18:08,560 --> 01:18:11,159 It's not fair to his time if you go silent when he's asking questions 1064 01:18:11,199 --> 01:18:14,600 as well. See, he only has twenty seconds left on his time. 1065 01:18:14,920 --> 01:18:19,399 Let's keep it focused on the topics and not about either side, either side 1066 01:18:19,600 --> 01:18:24,520 talking about the debate itself. Let's keep it focused on the topic. I 1067 01:18:24,640 --> 01:18:28,119 think I think y'aded to watch a few crosses eminations in professional debates. But 1068 01:18:28,199 --> 01:18:30,479 it's okay, you're not a professional debate. What are you talking about? 1069 01:18:30,960 --> 01:18:38,000 Jay? Jay has twenty more second question, So worried about my time, 1070 01:18:38,199 --> 01:18:40,600 and I was about to answer your question for your time. I literally about 1071 01:18:40,600 --> 01:18:44,880 to answer your question time. I'm gonna ask the question oh again, okay? 1072 01:18:45,199 --> 01:18:51,520 Correct? Are you united too the Trinitarian groups say in fourth, six 1073 01:18:51,600 --> 01:18:55,760 and seven centuries that were Judaizers, Do you have the same faith as those 1074 01:18:55,800 --> 01:18:59,319 people because you're an anti Trinitarian. You're claiming that all of those groups are 1075 01:18:59,399 --> 01:19:02,560 your group? Is that true? So just to be clear, he caught 1076 01:19:02,560 --> 01:19:04,920 me an anti Trinitarian, which I told him I wasn't a text message, 1077 01:19:04,920 --> 01:19:08,239 so I don't even know why he's using that right now. But just to 1078 01:19:08,279 --> 01:19:11,000 be clear, anybody that teaches to keep the commandments, which is why if 1079 01:19:11,000 --> 01:19:14,319 you actually look up Messianic churches that today they're mixed with people that believe in 1080 01:19:14,600 --> 01:19:19,000 Trinitarian oneness and other people. So anybody that preaches that follows Jesus and teaching 1081 01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:21,479 people to keep the commandments, I don't care about your other be a lot 1082 01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:26,159 of theology. But if you believe in Jesus and teach people to keep the 1083 01:19:26,199 --> 01:19:30,640 commandments, you are my group. So when church proathers talked about juda yasers, 1084 01:19:30,640 --> 01:19:32,359 they were talking about people that believe in Jesus and as you've already said 1085 01:19:32,680 --> 01:19:35,560 people, You've already admitted this. They're talking about people that believe in Jesus 1086 01:19:35,600 --> 01:19:39,479 and also try to judayas Christianity, which is teaching to keep the commandments. 1087 01:19:39,600 --> 01:19:41,520 So yes, if they do that, they are part of my group. 1088 01:19:41,800 --> 01:19:44,279 You admitted you didn't even know who my group was. Was why you wanted 1089 01:19:44,319 --> 01:19:48,880 me to explain it? Said? If you don't want to alienate Christians because 1090 01:19:48,880 --> 01:19:53,199 you're passing yourself off as a Christian when you're not Bryson, you have two 1091 01:19:53,239 --> 01:19:57,399 minutes on the clock you can feel free to interrupt during your cross examination time. 1092 01:19:57,439 --> 01:20:01,640 That's time you can feel free to It's okay, I'm an adult. 1093 01:20:01,840 --> 01:20:05,000 UM, so I will actually pick it back off your questions. I really 1094 01:20:05,000 --> 01:20:08,159 don't have no answer questions. I like, we already figure out the issue 1095 01:20:08,159 --> 01:20:12,600 with this conversation. Um. But so since you've already admitted and I've already 1096 01:20:12,600 --> 01:20:14,720 told you who my group was, and I just laid it out to you 1097 01:20:14,800 --> 01:20:18,000 again, my question to you is when they say at Juda Yazer, if 1098 01:20:18,039 --> 01:20:21,560 they are referring to people that follow Jesus and teach people to keep the commandments, 1099 01:20:21,640 --> 01:20:27,159 and I say, that's my group, that's my group. So was 1100 01:20:27,239 --> 01:20:30,640 I right when I said my group has always been in existence? Of course, 1101 01:20:30,640 --> 01:20:33,560 that's just ingenuous because you can make the parameters as wide as you want 1102 01:20:33,640 --> 01:20:36,439 to be any group that fits in, so that you can then have an 1103 01:20:36,520 --> 01:20:41,039 example in every one of those centuries when you know very well that those groups 1104 01:20:41,079 --> 01:20:45,399 are all divided against one another, and there's not a consistent lineage in every 1105 01:20:45,520 --> 01:20:48,520 century of a succession. That's my point. We have absolute succession. There's 1106 01:20:48,560 --> 01:20:51,840 one church and all those centuries it's the Church. Yeah, it's the church 1107 01:20:51,920 --> 01:20:55,800 that you got the Gospel of Matthew from. Right. Yeah, So that's 1108 01:20:55,800 --> 01:21:00,159 irrelevant. That's because Jesus said that the kingdom. It's brysons time. Go 1109 01:21:00,199 --> 01:21:04,000 ahead, Bryson, I haven't asked a question. You don't ask questions. 1110 01:21:04,039 --> 01:21:09,319 It's not your time, Okay. So the reason I just said that was 1111 01:21:09,359 --> 01:21:13,119 irrelevant to what I said is I just told you my group. So unless 1112 01:21:13,119 --> 01:21:14,760 you claim that I'm lyinding about my group, by ba, this is the 1113 01:21:14,800 --> 01:21:17,760 group I've been saying I'm a part of. You can't find me saying fallacis 1114 01:21:18,159 --> 01:21:21,560 you try. You're trying. You're trying to claim it's too general. The 1115 01:21:21,600 --> 01:21:24,960 reason you don't want it to be too general because you have to admit your 1116 01:21:25,000 --> 01:21:29,199 wrong And I don't understand. I just I just told you. I just 1117 01:21:29,239 --> 01:21:31,600 told you my group. You've already admitted what Judiajas were according to according to 1118 01:21:31,640 --> 01:21:35,359 the Touch Fathers. So if if you're not with those groups, let me 1119 01:21:35,399 --> 01:21:38,680 ask you. You're doing a word, let me ask you, Let me 1120 01:21:38,720 --> 01:21:40,800 ask you. Let me ask you this way, Dan, let me ask 1121 01:21:40,800 --> 01:21:44,439 you this way. Then if you have to accept what I just claimed my 1122 01:21:44,520 --> 01:21:46,279 group was, I don't care how general you think it is based on that 1123 01:21:46,600 --> 01:21:49,880 you're based on how general it is? Man, you can't even make an 1124 01:21:50,000 --> 01:21:56,359 argument. It's time Bryson go ahead. Does that mean if you have to 1125 01:21:56,399 --> 01:21:58,920 accept what I just said? Does that mean according to you and what you 1126 01:21:59,000 --> 01:22:01,560 have already claimed, you have conceded the point that my group that you are 1127 01:22:01,600 --> 01:22:05,119 to claim you didn't know who it was you you have to claim? Is 1128 01:22:05,159 --> 01:22:09,279 it true that this is al always existed according to Church fathers. No, 1129 01:22:09,479 --> 01:22:13,880 your argument is based on a word concept fallacy that you can identify and everything. 1130 01:22:13,920 --> 01:22:19,319 Answer the question. I don't want to not just general it is based 1131 01:22:19,359 --> 01:22:21,399 on what I was just saying. I'm gonnaw generally you don't care if it 1132 01:22:21,800 --> 01:22:25,840 to church fathers. Has this Has this group always existed? Do you know 1133 01:22:25,880 --> 01:22:30,800 what a word concept fels is? Has the group always don't ask me questions 1134 01:22:30,800 --> 01:22:32,680 to your time is up? Is your time? Has this group always existed? 1135 01:22:33,039 --> 01:22:36,560 Your argument is based on a word consipt of fallacy, interest of my 1136 01:22:36,640 --> 01:22:40,640 time? All right? So that was that was a little over. It 1137 01:22:40,840 --> 01:22:45,960 is fair to go, um, to unpack a question on either side. 1138 01:22:45,000 --> 01:22:48,159 If either of you feels a question is flawed, Bryson, if you feel 1139 01:22:48,159 --> 01:22:51,239 a question he asked his flawed and he asked for yes or no, feel 1140 01:22:51,239 --> 01:22:55,239 free to say this is not a yes or no answer, Um, Jay, 1141 01:22:55,399 --> 01:22:58,079 you have two minutes on the clock for your time for cross examination. 1142 01:22:58,880 --> 01:23:01,159 Yeah. The argument is based on a word concept fallacy, that the term 1143 01:23:01,279 --> 01:23:05,880 judaizer can be extended to be so broad that it encompasses any potential group that 1144 01:23:06,039 --> 01:23:11,119 has a very basic general belief that he shares. And so, as I 1145 01:23:11,239 --> 01:23:15,199 pointed out, in the early Church, the word judaizers used across the board 1146 01:23:15,239 --> 01:23:18,560 for arians, for nestorians, for anybody that's an anti Trinitarian. And my 1147 01:23:18,680 --> 01:23:21,840 point about the Trinity was not to deflect to the Trinity but to point out 1148 01:23:21,960 --> 01:23:27,079 that your group doesn't exist in continuity. You know the argument I'm making. 1149 01:23:27,479 --> 01:23:31,359 You're coming up with ways that there's so broad a description of heterodox people that 1150 01:23:31,800 --> 01:23:34,680 oh, yeah, well, I'm it'd be like me saying I agree with 1151 01:23:34,880 --> 01:23:39,920 the heretics, and there's heretics in every century, so my church as the 1152 01:23:40,000 --> 01:23:43,079 heretics existed in every century. See, I got you. That's called a 1153 01:23:43,159 --> 01:23:46,520 word concept fallacy because you know that you don't have that qutuity with those with 1154 01:23:46,640 --> 01:23:50,199 those groups. No, I'm having to explain why your argument is a fallacy, 1155 01:23:50,239 --> 01:23:55,840 which is okay. I don't have to ask you a question. I 1156 01:23:55,920 --> 01:23:58,880 can explain the argument to you what you don't understand. Then I can ask 1157 01:23:58,920 --> 01:24:01,680 you a question, how do you have a continuity with those groups that don't 1158 01:24:01,760 --> 01:24:09,000 believe what you believe when it comes to things like the Trinity. As I've 1159 01:24:09,000 --> 01:24:13,319 already splanned you last time, and as you've already conceded to um the word 1160 01:24:13,439 --> 01:24:15,880 Judaeyazar, as you've already said, this is according to your criteria, has 1161 01:24:15,960 --> 01:24:20,279 to include people that are that follow Christ and claim that the mosaic law is 1162 01:24:23,039 --> 01:24:27,079 which is different, is different, which is different? It's naturally broad, 1163 01:24:27,159 --> 01:24:29,760 which is different. Oh, thank you. So your argument rested on a 1164 01:24:29,800 --> 01:24:32,520 broad definition, which is why that's what you said. You just consider. 1165 01:24:32,600 --> 01:24:35,680 No, No, that's truly my group. So I don't think that doesn't 1166 01:24:35,720 --> 01:24:40,560 exist as an actual body of people. You see, it's not an organization. 1167 01:24:40,720 --> 01:24:43,399 That's my point. No, Jesus said, who said it has to 1168 01:24:43,439 --> 01:24:46,279 be? That's my argument, dude, that Jesus said that the church would 1169 01:24:46,319 --> 01:24:49,560 not have the gates of help prevail against it in Matthew sixteen. So you 1170 01:24:49,680 --> 01:24:55,800 have a thousand different sects over seven centuries that don't actually have a continuous belief 1171 01:24:55,840 --> 01:25:00,399 other than one thing in common. That's so work about that, because you 1172 01:25:00,680 --> 01:25:04,319 are still you are now fully conceding your point. No, I'm pointing out 1173 01:25:04,359 --> 01:25:09,079 that your sophistry is a dumb fallacy. It's a word concept fallacy. It's 1174 01:25:09,119 --> 01:25:12,199 just I just gave you an example of why it doesn't work two minutes now, 1175 01:25:12,640 --> 01:25:14,960 and I can because I don't want to point o that before you said 1176 01:25:15,000 --> 01:25:18,000 we had to ask you, and I tried to explain something beforehand. You 1177 01:25:18,039 --> 01:25:23,359 don't want to clear clear it's okay to for either of you to explain the 1178 01:25:23,520 --> 01:25:27,399 argument that you can't cool, But that's total. That's totally fine. Well 1179 01:25:27,439 --> 01:25:32,840 he's a debate examination, a debate, great, yeah, yeah, of 1180 01:25:32,960 --> 01:25:36,640 course. Um here you got two minutes, all the clocks already interrupt pressing. 1181 01:25:36,800 --> 01:25:39,640 Okay, so from my time, I have to just explain to you, 1182 01:25:39,760 --> 01:25:42,640 and I hope that could do it as simple as possible. UM, 1183 01:25:42,720 --> 01:25:44,920 I just want to just recap this one more time, be the last time 1184 01:25:44,920 --> 01:25:47,039 I recap it. You just don't like how broad it is. I told 1185 01:25:47,119 --> 01:25:50,279 you before you ask me specifically, are people that believe in the trinity but 1186 01:25:50,479 --> 01:25:53,359 teach people to keep the law, they are part of my group? And 1187 01:25:53,359 --> 01:25:56,520 I told you yes. So unless you just flat out tell me on Lyne, 1188 01:25:56,800 --> 01:26:00,279 everything else you said is null and void and irrelevant. I told you 1189 01:26:00,359 --> 01:26:01,640 who my group was. I've been telling you who my group was, and 1190 01:26:01,720 --> 01:26:04,600 then I gave you I'm the one who brought up how church fathers talked about 1191 01:26:04,640 --> 01:26:08,359 Juda yas Is all throughout, and you said, has your group existed? 1192 01:26:08,399 --> 01:26:12,039 What's evidence for your group? I then gave you evidence for my group, 1193 01:26:12,119 --> 01:26:14,840 and you play, oh, that's too broad to be a group. Oh 1194 01:26:15,279 --> 01:26:18,680 my group, my group, it's my time. My group is just broad. 1195 01:26:19,039 --> 01:26:25,600 So it's people that teach keep the commandment. I'm gonna saying, keep 1196 01:26:25,600 --> 01:26:27,680 going. I'm ex playing to you my group for the last time, my 1197 01:26:27,800 --> 01:26:30,239 group of people. I don't get you even Trinity one is. This is 1198 01:26:30,279 --> 01:26:31,760 my fourth time saying it's by the way, Trinity one is whatever it is. 1199 01:26:31,800 --> 01:26:34,720 If you teach, if you keep commandments, and teach people to keep 1200 01:26:34,720 --> 01:26:39,680 the commandments. As Jesus stated at Matthew five, you are part of my 1201 01:26:39,880 --> 01:26:44,039 group. It doesn't need to be called a name or or have a group 1202 01:26:44,199 --> 01:26:46,039 for that to be my group, the people I view as my brothers in 1203 01:26:46,159 --> 01:26:50,000 Christ. Um. And you've already conceded that the Church fathers talked about these 1204 01:26:50,039 --> 01:26:55,560 people all always since the beginning, which is conceded that my group has always 1205 01:26:55,720 --> 01:26:59,720 existed and always been talked about. That is just the basic objective truth of 1206 01:26:59,760 --> 01:27:04,479 them there. Okay, And you do have thirty seconds left. If you 1207 01:27:04,560 --> 01:27:09,399 have anything else, any questions you want to direct to jay Um. I 1208 01:27:09,479 --> 01:27:11,359 mean, all you want to do is try to twist at turn it again 1209 01:27:11,399 --> 01:27:16,079 as he's been doing. I don't really I don't really have an extra of 1210 01:27:16,159 --> 01:27:20,359 questions. Yeah. The argument was that there's a visible body of people known 1211 01:27:20,439 --> 01:27:25,359 as the Church, the kingdom that is one Lord, one faith, one 1212 01:27:25,439 --> 01:27:28,680 body. According to Paul, that means it can't be split amongst a thousand 1213 01:27:28,720 --> 01:27:31,520 different sects. So for you to maintain your argument, you did exactly what 1214 01:27:31,640 --> 01:27:34,880 I said. You had to make it so broad that it includes any possible 1215 01:27:35,319 --> 01:27:40,880 person with one belief and you don't care about all of the other multitude of 1216 01:27:40,920 --> 01:27:45,199 beliefs that they're all divided amongst themselves about so that means that you don't actually 1217 01:27:45,279 --> 01:27:49,439 have a continuous group. That was the argument from Matthew sixteen. So in 1218 01:27:49,600 --> 01:27:54,079 your view, the true Church of the Remnant, or whoever you think it 1219 01:27:54,239 --> 01:27:57,760 is, is all of these thousands of sex all divided against one another. 1220 01:27:57,840 --> 01:28:01,840 So did Satan prevail against your church to divide it into thousands of different sects 1221 01:28:02,239 --> 01:28:08,680 amongst these seven centuries. No, Satan only prevailed against like the Orthodox Church 1222 01:28:08,720 --> 01:28:10,760 and the Catholic Church, which is why YA don't keep the commandment. You 1223 01:28:10,840 --> 01:28:14,199 didn't answer my question, So how is how did I say? I said, 1224 01:28:14,279 --> 01:28:16,600 no answer, No, that was a two quot quay another fallacy. 1225 01:28:16,880 --> 01:28:21,359 You know what a two quot quad fallacy is. You know you know what 1226 01:28:21,439 --> 01:28:25,359 answer the question already? You said, You said that you put it back 1227 01:28:25,359 --> 01:28:28,279 on the way you put it back. That's a two quot quite fallacy to 1228 01:28:28,319 --> 01:28:31,039 put it back on me that the Catholic Church and Orthodox Church were the ones 1229 01:28:31,079 --> 01:28:35,159 that capitulated Satan. When I asked you a specific question about your schism and 1230 01:28:35,279 --> 01:28:39,199 divided groups throughout those centuries, you didn't answer. You said, no, 1231 01:28:39,359 --> 01:28:42,279 it's the Orthodox Church. Yeah, I say no, which is answered two 1232 01:28:42,359 --> 01:28:44,239 quo qu no, it's not. You know what if you don't even know, 1233 01:28:44,439 --> 01:28:46,760 you don't why are you debating you don't know three basic fallacies you've already 1234 01:28:46,760 --> 01:28:50,479 committed two quote quay, Bro, you're just doing what all everybody doing. 1235 01:28:50,600 --> 01:28:56,359 They just don't pological fallacies, want to one body on one more, one 1236 01:28:56,399 --> 01:28:59,119 faith, one body. You don't even have that. That's why the do 1237 01:28:59,279 --> 01:29:01,439 the Orthodox prevailed against for everybody. Also, that's a two quote way. 1238 01:29:01,520 --> 01:29:03,239 You're just saying you don't have that. You don't have that, you don't 1239 01:29:03,319 --> 01:29:05,279 Yes, we do have that, but that's I've already said no to the 1240 01:29:05,319 --> 01:29:08,079 first questions are you gonna do? And say, oh, so, what's 1241 01:29:08,119 --> 01:29:10,920 the sea I want kind of respond to you said I'm gonna You're not gonna 1242 01:29:10,960 --> 01:29:13,640 respond to it because you can't do it. I said, no, that's 1243 01:29:13,680 --> 01:29:16,279 not an answer. Just no, dude, you just literally by definitions. 1244 01:29:16,720 --> 01:29:20,199 You just lost bro. No, you just you just said that. I 1245 01:29:20,319 --> 01:29:24,640 asked you a question and you said, no. What's the argument for that 1246 01:29:24,800 --> 01:29:27,840 being the case? That's time on that Bryson. You have two minutes on 1247 01:29:27,920 --> 01:29:30,159 the clock for your cross, and I will expland it to him. So 1248 01:29:30,199 --> 01:29:35,239 the reason it didn't prevail against the people that I believe um are truly like 1249 01:29:35,399 --> 01:29:39,279 fully in Christ, the people that teach to keep the commandments, is because 1250 01:29:39,359 --> 01:29:42,279 we know biblically that those are the people that Satan will wage war with. 1251 01:29:42,880 --> 01:29:46,079 Didn't say Satan will wage war with a church at all. Um doesn't say 1252 01:29:46,079 --> 01:29:48,520 that in the Boca Daniel, doesn't say that in at the twenty four, 1253 01:29:48,600 --> 01:29:54,640 doesn't say that, and really really any problem it's it's prison's time. Yeah, 1254 01:29:55,159 --> 01:29:59,000 But what the Bible does say in Revelation twelve is that saying it's wage 1255 01:29:59,079 --> 01:30:02,760 war against those that that keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony 1256 01:30:02,800 --> 01:30:06,039 of Jesus Christ. The problem, I think the issue you're having is you're 1257 01:30:06,079 --> 01:30:09,439 just so used to having like an official body it has to be called a 1258 01:30:09,560 --> 01:30:12,279 name when it doesn't biblically, which is why I'm just one hundred and sent 1259 01:30:12,359 --> 01:30:15,720 correct. If you keep the commandments and the testimony of God, that is 1260 01:30:15,800 --> 01:30:20,159 the body. Those are the people say in waging world, waging war against 1261 01:30:20,279 --> 01:30:24,560 which is why I said no, because in Daniel seven it talks about how 1262 01:30:24,640 --> 01:30:28,000 Satan works. It says people will be arrogant, an attempt to change the 1263 01:30:28,159 --> 01:30:30,640 times and the law of the Most High. And the reason I brought up 1264 01:30:30,640 --> 01:30:35,239 the Catholic Church and the Orthodoxy Church is because objectively speaking, that is something 1265 01:30:35,279 --> 01:30:39,640 that has happened, which you have tried to defend this entire of this debate. 1266 01:30:39,880 --> 01:30:43,439 So no, Satan has not prevailed against who I believe to be the 1267 01:30:43,520 --> 01:30:47,279 body, because we still keep the commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus 1268 01:30:47,399 --> 01:30:50,960 Christ. And you still have forty seconds on the clock. Prison. Oh 1269 01:30:53,479 --> 01:30:56,880 oh, I guess my question will be does that properly answer your question? 1270 01:30:57,399 --> 01:31:01,039 Jade? I mean, you said no, but it's not it's a nonsensical 1271 01:31:01,119 --> 01:31:04,199 answer because you just said no. They they're the true Church, They're the 1272 01:31:04,239 --> 01:31:13,399 true people. Well, you ask has Satan? Hey, it's a very 1273 01:31:13,439 --> 01:31:16,359 simple question. You already I answered. I thought I answered it so beautifully. 1274 01:31:16,399 --> 01:31:21,880 Bro you no again, you have two minutes on the clock of your 1275 01:31:21,920 --> 01:31:27,720 cross examination. Yeah. So you restated your argument about what you think is 1276 01:31:27,800 --> 01:31:30,840 the case in church history, and you said, we know that there's always 1277 01:31:30,880 --> 01:31:33,159 these people because the Bible says so, No, I want to know in 1278 01:31:33,319 --> 01:31:36,359 those centuries. Yes, you did. You said that the people that it 1279 01:31:36,359 --> 01:31:40,720 would be warned against the people that keep the commandments. And by the way, 1280 01:31:40,800 --> 01:31:43,960 Revelation twelve is about the Church. It's the group of people that come 1281 01:31:44,079 --> 01:31:47,000 from the woman, the queen of Heaven in that text that gave birth to 1282 01:31:47,159 --> 01:31:50,359 the Messiah. That queen of Heaven is Mary. Mary is the Theotokos. 1283 01:31:50,800 --> 01:31:55,760 So that chapter is about the church. So yeah, absolutely, the church 1284 01:31:55,960 --> 01:31:59,079 is called the Kingdom of Heaven. And Matthew sixteen, the passage that I'm 1285 01:31:59,119 --> 01:32:02,359 referring to Jesus that the gates of Hell would not prevail against the Kingdom, 1286 01:32:02,720 --> 01:32:05,720 and that he would give the keys to the apostles. He gives the keys 1287 01:32:05,760 --> 01:32:09,720 to Peter, he gives the keys to the rest the apostles in Matthew eighteen, 1288 01:32:09,800 --> 01:32:14,279 two chapters later, and I'm saying that that means that there's one Lord, 1289 01:32:14,359 --> 01:32:16,640 one faith, one body as a visible organization in history, the one 1290 01:32:16,720 --> 01:32:19,520 that you get the Gospel of Matthew from that you admit, you appeal to 1291 01:32:19,600 --> 01:32:25,319 our tradition to get that same visible body is the Church of history. That 1292 01:32:25,680 --> 01:32:29,800 church is unified. It teaches the same things throughout the seven Ecommenical councils. 1293 01:32:30,039 --> 01:32:33,840 And I asked you for the unity of your group as a visible organization throughout 1294 01:32:33,880 --> 01:32:36,800 those centuries, and you said, it's not a visible organization, doesn't have 1295 01:32:38,000 --> 01:32:42,520 to be. It can be a bunch of different groups. Okay, So 1296 01:32:42,840 --> 01:32:49,079 Satan did prevail to split your church into anti Trinitarian and Trinitarian groups. Dude, 1297 01:32:49,079 --> 01:32:55,880 that makes no sense. Oh it cannot respond. Yeah, okay, 1298 01:32:56,239 --> 01:33:00,199 yeah, you just very incorrect. I wold never says the body has to 1299 01:33:00,439 --> 01:33:04,119 agree with one theology, but it does say. And by the way, 1300 01:33:04,319 --> 01:33:10,560 your church is definitely not the body to talk about it revelation revelation to Will. 1301 01:33:10,600 --> 01:33:12,920 And I'm gonna tell you why, because that body has to hold to 1302 01:33:12,960 --> 01:33:15,159 the commandments and a testimony of Judus Christ, which your body don't do. 1303 01:33:15,920 --> 01:33:21,520 You don't believe Christ, you don't have the testimony of Christ. All right, 1304 01:33:21,560 --> 01:33:24,640 Bryson, it will be your two minutes on the clock for your time 1305 01:33:24,680 --> 01:33:29,119 for cross examination. We have about fifteen minutes left for crossing or sixteen minutes 1306 01:33:29,199 --> 01:33:32,880 left beautiful. So so I think I'm starting to see the issue here. 1307 01:33:33,079 --> 01:33:36,359 Um he believes you have to agree with the same exact theology to be part 1308 01:33:36,399 --> 01:33:39,600 of the body, which leads to what he said before. Now it's starting 1309 01:33:39,600 --> 01:33:43,199 to make sense. That's just varying error. There's nothing to back it up, 1310 01:33:43,239 --> 01:33:45,680 no scritchs. A matter of fact, for a large part of early 1311 01:33:46,159 --> 01:33:51,039 Orthodox history and Catholic history, there was many belief systems, which is why 1312 01:33:51,079 --> 01:33:56,640 they had counsels and bishops had to vote on different belief systems and see which 1313 01:33:56,720 --> 01:34:00,199 one was right. Matter of fact, claim of the Trinity was necessary need 1314 01:34:00,239 --> 01:34:02,760 to be a Christian. That was way later, um, in church history, 1315 01:34:02,800 --> 01:34:04,760 when that was when that was going to be said. That's why so 1316 01:34:04,840 --> 01:34:10,159 many church fathers wrote so many books trying to explain to Trinity and debate against 1317 01:34:10,199 --> 01:34:14,720 other people that was supposedly of the same faith. Um so, but bitterly 1318 01:34:14,760 --> 01:34:16,720 speaking, is just not necessary Trinity one. It's not that that is necessary 1319 01:34:16,800 --> 01:34:19,880 necessary to be a Christian. He talked about the the christ did he means 1320 01:34:19,920 --> 01:34:23,880 divine, claiming that I don't believe Jesus is divine. It's just I mean, 1321 01:34:23,960 --> 01:34:26,199 flat out's fault. But like I said, not about going to that 1322 01:34:26,239 --> 01:34:31,399 silly argument, Bryson, feel free to go ahead, Yes, sir, 1323 01:34:31,960 --> 01:34:35,680 um So it's all right. You'll have your time to call that out if 1324 01:34:35,760 --> 01:34:38,840 if that's if that's how you feel, Bryson, go ahead. You have 1325 01:34:38,920 --> 01:34:42,800 about um a little over a minute, okay, Den he means uh, 1326 01:34:42,960 --> 01:34:45,239 deed, he means divine. Divine means from God or of God or God. 1327 01:34:45,319 --> 01:34:50,399 I believe that Jesus is clearly from God and a friend of Jesus Lord. 1328 01:34:50,439 --> 01:34:53,239 By the way, So not being this ingenuous, you just don't know 1329 01:34:53,239 --> 01:34:55,640 what you're talking about. Um. So, as I said, your body 1330 01:34:55,680 --> 01:34:59,359 can't be the body spoken about in the Bible, because you have spent almost 1331 01:34:59,399 --> 01:35:01,279 two hours saying you don't have to keep the commandment. So I know for 1332 01:35:01,439 --> 01:35:03,840 a fact the body that I say it is the body is the true body 1333 01:35:03,880 --> 01:35:08,520 and not yours. All right, j you have two minutes on the clock. 1334 01:35:10,000 --> 01:35:12,279 Yeah. First of all, that's not what divinity means. It does 1335 01:35:12,319 --> 01:35:15,760 not mean from God. It's a generic term that can be Well, I 1336 01:35:15,760 --> 01:35:17,600 don't know where you're shaking your head. Literally, that's not what it means. 1337 01:35:17,760 --> 01:35:20,640 I mean humans are from God? Does that mean we're divine? You 1338 01:35:20,680 --> 01:35:25,119 don't even know what the words mean. The word God is a general term 1339 01:35:25,199 --> 01:35:29,079 that can be used in scripture to refer to angels, to devils, It 1340 01:35:29,159 --> 01:35:31,279 can be used to refer to human beings, and it can be used to 1341 01:35:31,319 --> 01:35:35,319 referred to God himself. So it's a general term that can be used in 1342 01:35:35,520 --> 01:35:41,920 different ways. But to pass yourself off as a Christian when you know good 1343 01:35:41,960 --> 01:35:45,039 and well you do not believe the fundamental doctrines of Christianity, which are defined 1344 01:35:45,079 --> 01:35:47,720 by things like the Council of Nicia. It would be like me saying, 1345 01:35:48,119 --> 01:35:53,560 well, I'm remember the Communist Party, but I don't believe what the Communist 1346 01:35:53,640 --> 01:35:58,159 Party teaches. Oh I'm a member of you know, pick any group that 1347 01:35:58,279 --> 01:36:02,239 has a set defined group of characteristics and to then say, well, but 1348 01:36:02,359 --> 01:36:05,520 I don't actually believe those things, but I am that thing. You don't 1349 01:36:05,520 --> 01:36:10,439 have the right to just use those terms or to appropriate those appropriate those things 1350 01:36:10,479 --> 01:36:15,359 to yourself, just like there's not a unified judaizing group. So you don't 1351 01:36:15,399 --> 01:36:18,520 believe in the trinity. And if you believe Jesus is a creature, then 1352 01:36:18,560 --> 01:36:21,079 you're not. You don't believe in the deed of Christ in the sense of 1353 01:36:21,199 --> 01:36:24,800 the way the Church has always taught it. And it's not true that the 1354 01:36:24,840 --> 01:36:28,039 Trinity is a late doctrine. Where do you think where do you think the 1355 01:36:28,079 --> 01:36:35,279 Trinity came from? Which version of the Trinity? There's only one version in 1356 01:36:35,359 --> 01:36:40,319 the first thousand years of Christianity. Well, the original one was Tertullian. 1357 01:36:40,359 --> 01:36:43,920 Then there's a guy. People claim that you don't know what you're talking about. 1358 01:36:43,960 --> 01:36:45,960 You think Tertillion made up the Trinity. Um, he was the first 1359 01:36:45,960 --> 01:36:50,800 person at point the time Trinit's ask for an absolute fact. Then that doesn't 1360 01:36:50,800 --> 01:36:55,239 mean that he's the person that made up the doctrine. Yeah, so I 1361 01:36:55,279 --> 01:36:58,319 can't interrupt and cross examination. So I don't know why you're shaking your head. 1362 01:36:58,359 --> 01:37:00,640 It's a cross examination that means I can rup. Oh, he's already 1363 01:37:00,680 --> 01:37:03,079 established you can. So I'm going off your rules. But I'm still making 1364 01:37:03,159 --> 01:37:05,600 face because you have a consent. You have comes like a child, if 1365 01:37:05,640 --> 01:37:11,079 I'm being quite frank. Examination. Yeah, I watched a lot of those, 1366 01:37:11,159 --> 01:37:14,720 and this is not how they typically back to the debate. But I 1367 01:37:14,760 --> 01:37:17,399 don't want to argue about the debating. Where do where do you think the 1368 01:37:17,479 --> 01:37:19,720 Trinity and the de to Christ came from? If you think it's late, 1369 01:37:19,840 --> 01:37:23,840 I want to know, well, I didn't say they. I didn't say 1370 01:37:23,840 --> 01:37:29,000 the Christ. That's why you're trying to move the goalpost. The two doctors 1371 01:37:29,079 --> 01:37:31,399 go together, No, because that means what look I mean you have to 1372 01:37:31,399 --> 01:37:34,319 say one is doctrine. It is the same thing which Tertullian wrote books about 1373 01:37:34,359 --> 01:37:40,159 against Praisi is arguing against one is doctrine. Both sides believe that Jesus is 1374 01:37:40,159 --> 01:37:41,880 a deity. By the way, you need to go look up the definition 1375 01:37:41,920 --> 01:37:44,319 of the divine. You're objectively wrong for like the fiftieth time and it's debate 1376 01:37:44,920 --> 01:37:47,520 told you that the word god is a generic term, and you gave them. 1377 01:37:47,600 --> 01:37:50,880 You gave it one definition. I said divine. You said divine. 1378 01:37:51,600 --> 01:37:56,399 God and deity and divine are all the same reference and they refer to generic 1379 01:37:56,560 --> 01:38:00,640 terms. We'll move to Bryson's two minutes for cross examination. Okay, thank 1380 01:38:00,680 --> 01:38:02,520 you. So he claimed that divine is not mean from God and anybody like 1381 01:38:02,760 --> 01:38:04,720 like, if I'm not mistake of you, just google it. I don't 1382 01:38:04,760 --> 01:38:08,960 think no, definition, devine wouldn't have that in there Google, so um 1383 01:38:09,319 --> 01:38:12,680 he claimed that that wasn't the definition. So he's not gonna admit he's objectly 1384 01:38:12,720 --> 01:38:17,720 wrong about that because he has a hard time uman that period us. Secondly, 1385 01:38:17,800 --> 01:38:23,119 that's what I was saying about Tertullian. Tertullian most popular writings are called 1386 01:38:23,159 --> 01:38:29,119 against Prasius, and which essentially is him debating uh Prasius. It's just his 1387 01:38:29,239 --> 01:38:33,159 writing, so there's no um counter to counter arguments, but it's him debating 1388 01:38:33,239 --> 01:38:36,439 Praisius on the one is doctrine. And if anybody doesn't know what one is 1389 01:38:36,479 --> 01:38:42,000 doctrine is is they believe the sort of what a Zurka tried to imply rear. 1390 01:38:42,039 --> 01:38:45,560 He claims he believes in the Trinity. Um is the Son, the 1391 01:38:45,680 --> 01:38:48,239 Holy Spirit, and the Father all Jesus. Many Jesus is the Father. 1392 01:38:48,399 --> 01:38:54,039 There is no separation, there's no distinction. But they also believe Jesus is 1393 01:38:54,319 --> 01:38:58,920 uh deity obviously because they believe Jesus the father. Um. So when he 1394 01:38:59,039 --> 01:39:00,800 claims the deity of Rice and the Trinity is connected to know it's not. 1395 01:39:00,920 --> 01:39:04,760 They're clearly two separate things. That's just an objective truth and trenitized, as 1396 01:39:04,800 --> 01:39:09,640 I said, started with tertillion. There was one guy beforehand, and that 1397 01:39:09,720 --> 01:39:14,000 wasn't a trinity, that was more like a QUADRUPOLEI or whatever the quite terminalogy 1398 01:39:14,039 --> 01:39:16,199 of that is. But as far as the as far as the most populate 1399 01:39:16,199 --> 01:39:18,840 residents of the trinity, doctor, and the term trinitaise that definitely came from 1400 01:39:18,880 --> 01:39:23,119 to Chilian for an objective fact, and then it evolved from there because that's 1401 01:39:23,119 --> 01:39:26,239 not even the same trinity that I don't know if Orthodox believe in that same 1402 01:39:26,279 --> 01:39:30,000 trinity. But then the most popular trainings are not even the same as it 1403 01:39:30,159 --> 01:39:33,560 was during that time. And you have thirty seconds left. Oh dang, 1404 01:39:34,039 --> 01:39:39,800 Um, I gotta start talking slower or something that felt like forever. Um, 1405 01:39:41,079 --> 01:39:44,199 I will just repeat what I said. Uh, your your church is 1406 01:39:44,239 --> 01:39:46,640 not the body Scripture like I said before, because they don't keep the commandments 1407 01:39:46,680 --> 01:39:49,279 of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. I just want to continue to 1408 01:39:49,760 --> 01:39:54,000 not rub it in, but continue slamming at home. All right, Jay, 1409 01:39:54,039 --> 01:39:56,079 you got two minutes on the clock. We have about ten minutes left 1410 01:39:56,119 --> 01:39:57,920 in the cross exam. Yeah, yeah,