The opinions expressed by Chayo Busquets are supported by his extensive experience as a family
therapist and in the previous analysis of the cases presented here welcome. This is
it, Chayo with you in jewel. We start very good afternoon to everyone
how they are important week, strong week, week, because even with mixed
emotions, because, for a luga, on the one hand, we are
going to talk about many very important topics that move them soul wax to the
depths, but also, on the other hand, very happy, because I
will have many guests this week talking about all kinds of areas starting from tomorrow,
everything that has to do with gender violence, with International Women' s
Day next Friday eight. So you' re looking good. And today,
the truth is that my guest was telling you this and he' s telling
you that it' s too bad that we' re seven years away and
many months away from chayo with you and it' s the first time that
we' re going to dedicate the entire program to an issue like autism.
Yesterday I announced that I was going to be on the show last week,
that we were announcing, but last night, in particular, that I announced
through networks. The amount of shares they gave to this made me realize I
' ve been late. It took me a while. But finally, today
the subject is here. There' s a guest here who' s a
specialist in this and I' m gonna introduce her to you real quick.
This is Rebecca Sarfati. She is a graduate in human communication with more than
fifteen years of experience in the subject of autism. So, as you will
see, as we always bring you, people who are very well qualified and
will hear me say becky because, well, I want you to sit at
home. So welcome, Bekuy. Thank you very much. Nice to be
here with you and your audience. And because an extremely interesting subject has regained
a lot of strength in recent years, each day more visible, fortunately,
the people more sensitized, more in conscience and, above all, a society
trying to really get an inclusion in many ways and which, therefore, excites
me and makes us work hard to get it done that nothing else is left
in theory, certainly, without doubt and of equi because we start with ABC.
What is autism. Of course he does. Autism is a different way
of perceiving the world, that is, it is processed differently from information and
it develops differently. This has logical neus donkey changes that affect certain areas,
including the best known, social skills, communicative skills, sensory abilities, the
part of mental flexibility, the part of symbolization. And this is a condition
of life. And since the two thousand thirteen, more or less that it
was changing the definition and that they were changing the diagnostic criteria, we spoke
before there were different types of autism. Today everything that is within a fan,
which are neurodevelopmental disorders, has come together. This means that there are
different or different components that alter neurological development in the early years of life,
which are not always seen in the early years of life, but when you
see retrospectives, if you see which are some of these neurodevelopmental disorders, effidete
attention, intellectual disability, motor disorders, autism spectrum disorder and attention dercis,
language disorders. And all these share like all this beginning and autism. What
has been given since two thousand thirteen or so are degrees. There are three
different degrees that are focused not on severity, but on the level of help.
Grade one is the least help you need. Grade two is with help
a little more significant and grade thirteens with significant help wou ok Ok. That
' s why we talk about autistic spectrum. Of course, we talk about
spectrum because we have also realized that, obviously, since we are all diverse,
then they share many characteristics. You used to talk about guys because they
said well, they share this, a little bit each. When we were
talking about network, when we were talking about Asperger, when we were talking
about pervasive disorder. And today there is talk of everyone sharing the majority.
But it' s more like these grades. We' re talking about a
linear diagnosis as far as you' re within the spectrum, but it'
s not linear specifically, but depending on each of the areas you go,
having a unique diagnosis, a unique jartlit. All right, we' re
back here in Chayo with you, and we' re talking to Rebecca Zarfati
today, an expert on autism, and we' re already focused on the
subject. No, and I was telling you, there' s the spectrum
that you answered and what happens then to the levels that you talked about.
Level one, level two, level three. Sure look, as I said
a few monuments, the levels come in and to what I say, because
everything is based on this symptomatology that I told them in these circles or the
treadas of what we are seeing, the social communication, the game and the
circumscribed interests. Like anyone else, we have unique profiles. There aren'
t even identical twins with the same profile. That' s why I tell
you that the diagnosis was spoken as linear that it' s inside the spectrum
is not out, but it' s not linear in that it' s
little autistic or much autistic, but rather you' re going, having different
levels. And today you talk more like a circular diagnosis or like a cobweb,
where maybe in your social skills you' re a little bit lower,
but in your gaming ability you' re a little bit higher, but in
your language capacity you' re in half and your motor capacity is very good.
And we all have areas of greater opportunity and greater strength. It'
s exactly the same thing, and that' s how you' re doing
the profile and that' s where the levels are. We can talk that
those who need less help are those who have developed more areas or more skills
and have also managed to compensate better, not necessarily have a very important deficit,
that is to say in very crude words. A child or autistic is
able to learn, of course, in all abilities, even in which he
has difficulty. Complicated is that it comes to see the spectrum of autism.
Not everyone has an intellectual disability. An intellectual disability is what was previously known
as mental retardation. A low IQ is a big myth and it' s
a great assumption that everyone does is that it' s within the spectrum.
It' s brilliant, it' s outstanding, it' s genius.
Not everyone exists within the spectrum who have an intellectual disability. There are those
with average intelligence. There are those who also have superior intelligence, but not
by having it already coexists with some other ok Ok. So, of course,
they can learn, but it' s a different way, which is
a little what it started out with, is the different way to process and
respond to all stimuli and learning ok. One of the things that people tend
to have as highly attributed to the autistic, is not these crises where they
suddenly get upset in the face of some situation and have behaviors, because they
are not the ones that people are used to, not where it can be
like to put very very upset or the child to the butista person And suddenly
those who are around do not know what is done, of course, because
there is also the idea of not touching them, they do not like contact.
It is true for all those in the autistic spectrum who do not like
physical contact. No, this is very linked to something very specific you mention.
As I told you, there are, like, several areas. One
of the areas is the repetitive and stereotyped interests or pattern that are known theoretically
as this and has a lot of connection with the part of sensory integration.
Another big driver Ok is integration. Sensory integration is the ability to receive,
process and respond adequately to all the stimuli we receive through the eight sensory systems
or channels we have. What was said was that we only had five tanned,
but they have realized through studies that there are eight, being the other
three extremely important, even primary, for the second ones to be given,
which are the vestibular part that has to do with movement, the proprioceptive part,
that tells you how your body is, what is standing outside and how
much strength and things I need to be able to do it. And also
the interopceptive part, which is the answer to what our organs have, i
e, uh, when I realize, when I' m sleepy, when
I' m tired, when I want to go to the bathroom, uh,
where I can' t modify that, but if I realize and respond
to those stimuli, then when I have a sensory problem, I have a
unique profile. I also want you to know that everyone, as people,
has a sensory difficulty, but we compensate for it in the day to day,
you will see those who chew gum all the time, those who die
in the chairs, who have wheels, the one who is thundering his fingers,
the one who is tiqui tiqui tiqui with the feathers. Yeah, that
all does, but give functional answers and don' t interfere. The problem
is when I get saturated, I get saturated and I don' t realize
it. And that' s the difference between a tantrum and a sensory crisis.
In the spectrum of autism there are many sensory crises. Who are the
ones who do not tolerate being touched by those who have a hyper tactile responsibility,
because when you touch them they feel too much. But there are people
who have the opposite, a hiccups and look for a lot of contact and
they are the ones who all day want hugs to papachos, hide among the
furniture or places, as well as small corners. He likes you to crush
him, he likes you in the game, tough push pull. So that
' s a granite, too. Not that they don' t like the
Wau contact, one of the great ones is that you' re breaking me.
It' s just that me at the outset ruled out that if someone
liked the pope' s hug or put on you and says no, then
you have to look for what. It' s but autistic, sure not
and not true. No. Or I have to confess that I' m
with the little open, because I' m surprised I don' t have
that information that' s like the one you told us about physical contact.
What other myths are there about autism. I told him there are so many
myths and I' d like to throw away several of them. Yes,
but please, the first is Autism is not a disease ok, it is
not contagious and it does not give to a certain type of people. Autism
is a condition of life. It is something that accompanies from birth to the
last day in this life, but many times they do not realize at an
early age until they see it in hindsight or until suddenly they begin to see
that there are certain. Synosis, I feel more like hunting and I'
ve been getting a lot of diagnosis lately in adult wou a lot. Another
big myth is that, uh, that' s how they are and that
' s how they' re going to stay and there' s nothing to
do. Of course not, of course not. We' re not gonna
be able to get them out of the sperm. Autism, as I was
saying, is a diagnosis, but diagnosis is not a label to put in
the refrigerator. And, well, this one is like that. No labels
are for products. Here what makes us is a guide. The diagnosis is
made to have a guide and to know what conditions or characteristics can be modified,
can be worked and what are we need to look for, how to
adapt them. Or because what we' re looking for is real social inclusion.
No. So, that' s another big myth that' s also
this topic. I don' t know if it' s a myth or
not. But this idea that they swing, that all autistic people swing,
is true. Not all of them. It also has to do with the
sensory profile. When you swing, you are activating the middle ear and are
activating all that is vestibular esteem. Then you enter a movement, remember that
the brain, function number one is to protect us. Then he' s
going to ask you what he needs to protect you if he' s getting
too little at the vestibular level of motion, he' s going to ask
you to swipe it so he can do it. But it also has to
do with that it helps us reach a level of attention, it gets us
to have a level of focus. So in each person it' s completely
different. Or another big myth is also that autistic people are extremely aggressive.
No, of course not ok clear that like every person, there are times
that they can react a little more, essentially inappropriate or intensely, but it
is not because they are aggressive. And the other is they' re in
their world and then they don' t like socializing. And because they are
not in their world. There is only one world in this world, and
we have to open them to this world, and therefore we also need to
know how to make them sharers. And the most important thing is not only
that they are in your world and they like to isolate themselves. They are
not isolated because they do not know, do not have the tools of language
or do not have the social tools to be included. So social interaction costs
them a lot more work, but they don' t want to be.
There are those who decide to be alone longer. There are others who decide
to be or cost less work, to be in small groups or with certain
peers or with certain people. And above all, they like to be with
adults, because adults are extremely predictable and we help modify many things so that
we can bring the inclusion of all people think about it with children. If
the child fails to understand, then we make all the modifications we can to
make him understand, and then we start pulling all the people in agreement.
Now tell me something before we get out of this, what you said about
the grades. You didn' t say. Grades s two, yes,
ok, level one, level two, level three into which the Asperger enters,
which is so well known and so dominated by all the world. Of
course, before, when we talked about guys, there was Asperger as there
were many others, as I told them, there was deep autism or canner
autism. There was the aspergre, it was in his network name, the
multiplex, the verbasive, the disintegrative of childhood. Today there is already talk
of levels. Not all people have changed. Let' s say that of
these terms, although commonly it should have migrated, because we are already talking
that both the two manuals that are used for diagnosis, both the cie eleven,
which is the one that is right now and that of that month five
R that already enters into force, you have already degrees, that asberg is
not as a capacity or as an apparent category, would be the ones of
degree or level one that need the least help. Let' s say where
the emphasis is most on the capacity of social interaction and this ability many times
of flexibility. Let' s just say it' s the SS that has
the asperge or you' re talking about autism in general, it' s
where the symptoms are most pointed out. Let' s say by n each
is focused differently. You remember that I said it' s a unique profile,
which is from the one degree where it' s the function or the
part of pragmatic language, the use of language, the part of social interaction,
and this part sometimes of flexibility, which is where it manifests itself most
in what was once known as Asperger and today is spectrum or condition of the
expert automate at level one. Okay, uh, explain a little bit.
Okay. I think we' re gonna have to go to some musical jewelry
and come back and explain a little bit. You have mentioned flexible thinking several
times and I would like to clarify it further so that the audience is clear
about what flexible thinking is. I' m very rigid in life. How
it turns out then I have Asperger or I have a tism. Not that
I understand it' s the right way to tell everyone and before we follow
each other, I' d like you to give details of how they can
follow you, please, of course, delighted. On social networks we appear
as arroba, center do to do and well, if there they can write
us directly messages and others and if they want more information. In fifty-
five, fifty- two, ninety- four, forty- seven, thirteen
and fifty- five, fifty- two, ninety- four, eighty-
four, fifteen, we will gladly be able to be just perfect. We
' re going to put them in networks as usual, but who' s
going to look for it. In social networks center to be all followed,
but the center to do with doing activity with the ch to be of being
person, of being independent, of being then is center to be to be
on Instagram and on Facebook, so that they follow her soon. Anyway,
for those who can' t take notes right now it' s going to
be on the nets ok TE said. I have mentioned the subject of flexible
thinking several times, that what is that, how it is eaten clear,
looks at broad features. I tell you how we can see this about the
inflexibility of thought in autism. Everything that has to do with these restricted interests,
that is, there is a very strong interest in a thing or a
subject and they are very limited. They don' t offer each other,
but they marry there. They have repetitive behaviors. It can be an insistence
on these rituals, on this monotony, on doing everything the same. The
changes cost them work. Most of the time they have a preference for a
clear order, because everything is predictable stereotyped behaviors. You need to repeat,
order to align, much need for anticipation. Everything that' s without prior
notice and exceptions costs a lot of work, ok everything that causes an uncertainty
that I don' t know how I have to answer, what I have
to do. Exceptions of all rules cost a lot of work. There'
s somewhere out there and tell me if it' s not a myth.
But even I have the idea that everything has to be as very literal,
that there is no, no, they don' t get the double meaning
metaphor. That' s true, or I' m largely wrong. Yes,
the thought is very concrete and I do not know it is acquired by
a series of situations and conditions. One of them has to do with it
It talks a lot about people with autism not being able to imitate, but
it' s not that they don' t succeed in imitating completely, because
they can imitate. What they fail to do is to abstract as the reading
between lines and already and to replicate it in other contexts or to generalize it.
And, as I repeat, not everything is in all cases and in
all cases. But in most people it happens because there' s something called
the theory of mirror neurons where the mirror neurons for which I don' t
know. It' s those neurons in charge of imitation of being able to
do exactly what you' re seeing. So when these kinds of neurons don
' t work properly. And there' s a lot of research behind all
this, in the spectrum it' s talked about that teaching has to be
much more direct. They won' t be able to do it empirically if
you don' t teach them the rules with their exceptions. Now this,
when they do, you say, they don' t all have it,
but you can be frequent you learn to do, that is, they learn
to abstract. Or it' s like a distinct disability. Where that possibility
doesn' t exist. See, of course, that almost everything is teachable,
ok almost everything is and for that are the therapies that the interre will
solve most of the difficulties or several opportunities. But it is also a reality
where, for example, in people who are on one level the social part
or the part of inferences, that is, here in Mexico, so well
known the albur the double sense, costs them a little work. They don
' t know if they' re laughing at them or at them. So
there' s a slight deficit left. Not everyone, but most people.
That part, yeah, okay, okay. Now all these characteristics that you
' re telling us, to see the spectrum, to see these levels,
what are those symptoms that are going to be there, that doesn' t
allow you to pull it out of the spectrum. You said the autistic,
the level of autism I have. He' s not going to be taken
away with that, he' s born and he' s going to die.
He' s gonna learn millions of things on the way to power.
I imagine, then, to adapt better and to function better. But there
' s a base that makes you autistic, doesn' t make you say
no to the diagnosis is wrong. It' s not that you' re
not autistic, it does make someone autistic. Look, let' s start
with the diagnosis. Yeah, okay, the diagnosis makes it a clinical part,
okay, I mean, there' s no medical study. You don
' t go to a cabinet and get blood out and they tell you that
you already have autism, they don' t do an electro, there'
s not a series of batteries or tests that can be done medically to do
it, they' re done and because most of them are sent to do
it to rule out some coexistence or morbidity, which some gastrointestinal problem that there
was a question there at some point and we talked a little bit about this
here on that side. Well, when you feel inflamed you are intolerant to
some substance or some food, think of those who today so famous in lactose
tolerance, you feel gasy, you feel inflamed, s s s NS mode
and lower your attention. Many of the people within the spectrum have gastrointestinal gn
problems. It' s quite a study and a great topic, but there
are also epilepsy problems, there are convulsions problems, there are neurological immaturity problems.
It can coexist with syndromes and then, obviously, in reality, by
being a condition, if I am understanding you well, it can coexist with
any other disease, like any of us who do not have autism and we
can coexist with diseases of any kind, of course, and this is a
condition of life already and then the diagnosis is made from the clinical side,
ok because it has to do with behavioral situations that yes, as I told
you, there are certain signs and certain specific symptoms in each of the areas
that you have to do. Symptoms must be present, obviously, or not
within the first thirty- six months of life. Many times we talk about
visual contact, the response to the name, the delay, the language,
this ability to play, symbolization, flexibility, thinking, that by age they
have certain, certain criteria or certain signs that you have to go forward and
that you start to give an agreement gap. How is it then that someone
comes into adult life, just to find out that he is within the autistic
aspect of the child. It' s a big question and it' s
a big topic. Many times they have managed to make up very well.
As I told you, therapy goes towards compensation, towards achieving then, to
begin the diagnosis in women and now comes a great great great. Let'
s say awareness of that and good those who have the opportunity to read in
April. Over there, Lola Garrote and some authors who investigate this talk about
the masking of symptoms, because women tend to mask more symptoms and then it
is much more difficult. Women are also difficult. The tests are done for
men and then there are certain things that cost more work and others because they
have perceived different, but they never had a direct treatment, or they were
never given so much attention and could cope with it in their own way of
difference, because we are all different. That' s right, but let
' s say exactly and Beckin, with whom one is going to be diagnosed
when if there are people who are listening to us say ay several of those
things. It happens to my son, to my daughter or to me not,
because after you said you diagnose adults, what, what where you'
re going looks speciality. Of course, there' s no single specialty.
It' s a multidisciplinary team here, as I told you. Obviously,
the first one you go to is your pediatrician or a neuropediatrician, a neurologist,
a pediatrician or because in Mexico we are used to going to the doctor
and the person who sees the development of the children is the teacher OK.
So the first signs or symptoms of delay that something is not right is what
you turn to to rule out any other OK conditions. But if the symptoms
go to and the language area obviously, if he told me because he is
year and half two years old and still does not speak, one says certain
words or had them and had a setback, because the right specialist is a
speech therapist or language therapist or a balloon pedam ok a graduate in human communication.
Okay, uh. If my symptoms go to the emotor part where suddenly
if sometimes it communicates, but I see that it clashes with the things that
it has been slowed down the milestones, it goes to a physical therapist or
physical therapist or one of psychomotor neurodevelopment, an occupational therapist ok and especially if
I start to see then there are these checklists are like degnos and symptoms by
age and they already marry many signs and symptoms come to them with certified professionals
or everything that has to do with the speck of autism. There is no
autism therapy and there is not only that a person does everything or can diagnose
everything. I think. Yes, there are certain official standardized tests, the
ten relatos, but and you have to be certified in that not with a
little trial. You don' t have it anymore or not because I,
I have the test and applied it, but you have to have a lot
of prior knowledge, you have to have the clinical eye and the clear preparation,
because you have to put together what comes out numbers with what you really
have to do. What is called the integration of the results, is nothing
more than emptying the ah good has ten and cut point seven. That'
s what it means, but rather to explain these things and, especially I
always tell you when you already start to sound like mom, like dad and
you' re not happy to approach a professional specialized in this area. If
you rule out if something is scary, it' s ignorance, of course,
because then it' s I' m not going to be and then
you' re growing up. Then they told me not at all. No,
if I see normal and then we begin to maximize what is common that
if it presents nomente and the other areas are being left out. That,
that, I think that' s super important. They' re asking me
here, in Mexico City there' s some center of attention for people with
autism, if there' s the Centro Autismo Teletón ok EH. There are
a few hundred IMS and DIFF clinics that already have areas of care ok.
I' ve seen it. For example, I' ve had to work
collaboratively with one who' s in that one. I think it' s
in kings, okay, so there' s already some. Ya e.
The National Rehabilitation Institute also has its ate area OK is where you are clear,
of course, we have snowy clinics. You' re center to be
to make us located in Mexico City, ok perfect, of course. Well,
all that data we' re going to pass on. We' re
going to give them medicine. It is treated with medications, some of the
levels, some of the characteristics or conditions or some of the symptoms, purely
by autism, because you already told us, can coexist with many other things.
Well, those other things are given you a stomach infection, because we
' re going to take you and give you your medication. But because of
autism as such, no pharmacological treatment is given. Not for the simple fact
of having a diagnosis of autism. It' s not given. I always
tell you there is no magic pill, because there is no magic pill for
anyone or for nothing. Okay, I mean, it gives you a flu
and it also depends on where the flu is going. It' s the
kind of doctors you take for a comparison. Yeah, so, if you
' re like this, you had upper respiratory, airway, lower respiratory systems.
If you have more. I don' t know how to shiver.
There are different treatments that the drug doesn' t give here a language therapist.
It is not given by a psychologist by a specialist doctor, it is
usually a country of psychiatrist, psychiatrist of children and adolescents, or a neuropediatrician
or pediatrician ok yes, it is a doctor. We, as therapists,
are not endorsed to agree. And it does not exist for autism, that
is, it is given for this part of inflexibility, for this part of
repetitive patterns. Remove a little these obsessions or these crazy inflexibilitys by symptoms,
no, no, not by autism, as such exactly ok be here with
what, what we stay with, what we close with and, without any
doubt, with some suspensive points and pause, because we have to follow this
program. Of course, I think here I would like to make as an
important closure understand that, speaking of autism spectrum disorder. We talk from the
person, in that there is not one equal in neurodiversity and how rich it
is then each also has a unique profile where there are certain signs and symptoms
that will lead us to a diagnosis, not in order to label and put
or box, but rather to find a guide, to know the best way
to support both the person and the whole family, because this comes to impact
the whole system. And then it' s something super important that sometimes we
say well, is that we' re just going to work with the kid.
We don' t have to work with the child, with the parents,
with the brothers and with the extended family in general, but also with
society. And another very important part to understand that it is not disease,
that it is not contagious, that there is not a single therapy that will
work, that is, there is no autism therapy, neither is there a
drug of autism or for autism. Everything is focused on the signs and symptoms
of the unique profile of the person and that from that we have to know
to which professional I usually tell them the first approach is given to a pediatrician,
because he begins to notice that delay in the milestones of development, he
begins to walk after or suddenly already if to certain things and he has lost
skills, suddenly he has a delay of language, or develops it and then
stops doing it, or it seems that he begins to learn slower. So
there we have to go with a speech therapist, speech therapist, speech therapist,
licensed in human communication. If I' m understanding what' s going
on with you, it would be the symptoms, just like you said.
For the medicine. It' s for therapy, of course. Of course,
and that is why a multidisciplinary team is needed, because it cannot a
terapor language, it cannot work, for example, the quotes of force and
motority. If you don' t have a background in that, we'
re not todologists. Then we have to make a great team to pull the
rope together. And a question that all those who hear me are going to
say today chayo of course that you had to do what happens with the limits.
Of course they don' t get educated, they don' t,
of course, get put on. Ok to see we understand and I always
start with this we are people and, as people, to live in society
we need to live with limits. Or because if we' re not going
to live in the jungle, then if we live and want real inclusion,
everyone needs boundaries. And, of course, disability and disability in this case
that we are talking about autism, is not fought with the limits. Okay,
well, moms don' t owe their son, so they don'
t have to consent, they don' t have to overprotect. You have
to educate and well know if there are moments, especially when they come to
present some crisis, from the behavior of more than maybe it is worth making
sure that they are not at risk, no danger and wait and watch how
it recovers. So that gives you a line of how you intervene and don
' t increase the crisis. Of course, that' s where we'
d say team son, we pause why you' re going to need to
come back, because we have to track him. This is a show I
owed you. I recognize it, I said it at first. I owed
them and we go. We' ll follow him up. So ask your
questions so that the next date you have with bequi we ask all the questions
directly, from any doubts that arise to you. They' re already on
social media, ways to contact her, how to locate her, how to
follow her. And I have nothing left but to thank you, man.
On the contrary, thank you very much to me and happy to have been
here with you and with all the audience I am very pleased. And so
long and you guys, well, tomorrow we start our week with the themes
of Women' s Day. Tomorrow comes a forensic psychologist, Claudia Viascán,
who is coming to talk about how we move from romantic love to femicide,
what happened on the road we didn' t see so we start tomorrow with
our Women' s Day week. I thank you very much. I'
m Chayo Busquets. This was chayo with you until tomorrow. Audio Central.