1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:07,200 You're listening to the Mind over Murder podcast. My name is Bill Thomas. 2 00:00:07,759 --> 00:00:12,039 I'm a writer, consulting, producer, and now podcaster. I am now 3 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:16,000 trying to use my experience as the brother of a murder victim to help other 4 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:20,239 victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book on the unsolved Colonial Parkway 5 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:24,640 murders, and I'm the co administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together 6 00:00:24,679 --> 00:00:28,440 with Kristin Dilley. My name is Kristin Dilley. I'm a writer, a 7 00:00:28,519 --> 00:00:32,439 researcher, a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the social 8 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:37,759 media manager and co administrator for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner 9 00:00:37,799 --> 00:00:49,399 in crime, Bill Thomas. Welcome to Mind of a Murder. I'm Kristin 10 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:54,560 Dilley and I'm Bill Thomas, and we are joined today by Derreka and Natalie 11 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:59,560 Wilson, founders of the Black and Missing Foundation, here to talk to us 12 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,960 a little bit about their foundation and the excellent work that they're doing. Dereka 13 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,599 and Natalie, thank you for joining us today. Hi, thank you for 14 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:11,959 having us having us. Forgive us if we sound like super excited chipmunks. 15 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:18,079 We had met you at Crime Con and so enjoyed our brief conversation there, 16 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:19,920 and then of course we had a chance to learn more about the foundation and 17 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:23,480 the great work you're doing. So we're both over the moon excited that you 18 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:29,359 had time to join us today and we're excited to be here. Yes, 19 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:32,519 thank you, and it's good to see you all again. I'll talk to 20 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:36,519 you again. Yeah, let's go ahead and start off a little bit by 21 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:42,400 you telling us about your educational and professional background and what you do in addition 22 00:01:42,519 --> 00:01:45,519 to the work that you do with Black and Missing. Natalie, I'll start 23 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:49,280 with you and then we'll kick it over to Dereka. Okay, I'm Natalie 24 00:01:49,319 --> 00:01:55,680 Wilson, co founder of the Black and Missing Foundation. My educational background is 25 00:01:56,400 --> 00:02:01,680 undergrad I graduated from Howard University into da Strick of Columbia with a BA in 26 00:02:01,799 --> 00:02:09,319 psychology and a minor in communications. And I also have a Masters in communications 27 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:15,840 from Trinity University, and most recently, I attended Harvard Business School and got 28 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:23,479 a certificate in Strategic Planning for nonprofit and love the work that I do and 29 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:30,159 everything that I do is really in line with communications. I do have a 30 00:02:30,199 --> 00:02:38,680 boutique public relations agency that helps other nonprofit get awareness or exposure for their cause. 31 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:42,400 Very cool, Dereka, can you tell us a little bit about your 32 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:46,680 end of things? Absolutely? So. My name is Dereka Wilson. I 33 00:02:46,719 --> 00:02:52,120 am the co founder of the Black and Missy Foundation, the other half of 34 00:02:52,159 --> 00:02:58,960 the Dynamic Duo as we call ourselves. My background is law enforcement. I 35 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:05,080 graduated from the Northern Virginia Criminal Justice Training Academy and went on to pursue my 36 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:12,159 career in law enforcement. I have over two decades of law enforcement experience and 37 00:03:12,479 --> 00:03:19,719 recently I left my government job and I actually started doing national security and public 38 00:03:19,759 --> 00:03:24,680 trust investigations for the federal government. So I do that with my other business, 39 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:30,599 which is RLD Limited Group, and it focuses on background investigations and law 40 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:35,560 enforcement consulting. And I'm also an author. I wrote my first children's book 41 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:40,039 last January and published it and it's called Finda's Here, and it aligns with 42 00:03:40,159 --> 00:03:46,840 what I do about keeping our community safe. So that's a little bit about 43 00:03:46,879 --> 00:03:50,439 me. Oh, I love this. I had no idea about your book. 44 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,759 That's fantastic. Thank you. Where can we find it if we want 45 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:59,439 to help your book sales? All things it's available on Amazon and it's called 46 00:03:59,479 --> 00:04:03,840 Findace Era is the children's book, and it really highlights the dangers of online 47 00:04:03,879 --> 00:04:10,759 predators and trafficking. So it's a great tool for parents to have those uncomfortable 48 00:04:10,759 --> 00:04:15,680 conversations with their children about the dangers that are out there. Oh that's phenomenal 49 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:21,680 because we've actually had episodes where we've talked about the dangers to young children and 50 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:29,360 even teenagers online and covered some cases involving online predators. Especially our young kids. 51 00:04:29,439 --> 00:04:31,879 We really need to make sure that they're aware of the fact that it's 52 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:34,480 a great, big, wonderful world out there, but you've got to be 53 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:40,879 careful and just because someone presents in a certain way doesn't mean they're being honest 54 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:45,839 about who they are what their intentions are. Absolutely, and just last year, 55 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:50,839 I actually received my certification as a certified Human Trafficking investigator, So again 56 00:04:50,879 --> 00:04:56,639 it aligns with the work with my law enforcement background as well as the work 57 00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:00,319 that we do with the foundation, and the two of you are assist there's 58 00:05:00,319 --> 00:05:02,079 in law. When we met at Crime Kind, I was saying off the 59 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:08,399 air, I thought you were sisters, but you're actually sisters by marriage personally 60 00:05:08,399 --> 00:05:11,480 and professionally. It sounds like your lives have blended a bit. Yes, 61 00:05:11,639 --> 00:05:15,759 your sisters in law. Yes, married to her brother. And I always 62 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:17,279 say this, and I'm going to put it on record. He is the 63 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:27,279 luckiest man on earth. I don't doubt it. So tell us a little 64 00:05:27,319 --> 00:05:30,720 bit about your organization, the Black and Missing Foundation. I give us a 65 00:05:30,759 --> 00:05:34,399 little bit of an overview about its main goals. What are the objectives that 66 00:05:34,439 --> 00:05:39,040 you'd like to you'd like to accomplish with your foundation. Let me give you 67 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:44,480 a little bit of background as to why we started it organization. The inspiration 68 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,439 behind it is a young lady by the name of Tamika Houston who went missing, 69 00:05:47,519 --> 00:05:54,120 and we read how her family really struggled to get media coverage, particularly 70 00:05:54,319 --> 00:06:00,040 national media coverage surrounding her disappearance. And Tamika's aunt, Rebecca, she's in 71 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:06,000 media relations and she couldn't get her colleagues to not even show her niece on 72 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:13,920 the national programs. Lorie Hackin disappeared weeks after Tamika, and she dominated the 73 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:17,759 news cycle. And Rebecca reached out to those same reporters, same networks, 74 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:23,519 same programs, and she was met with silence. So it was really disheartening 75 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:27,000 to us, and we wanted to do some research to see if this was 76 00:06:27,079 --> 00:06:30,800 an issue affecting our communities, because we definitely didn't see people that looked like 77 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:35,759 us making the news, whether it's local or national, the news headlines or 78 00:06:35,759 --> 00:06:40,759 coverage. And at the time, we found that thirty percent of all persons 79 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:46,720 missing were of color, primarily black males, and we decided why not us, 80 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:51,560 We need to do something about it, especially right after that Natalie Holloway 81 00:06:51,639 --> 00:06:56,720 disappeared and I'm sure that when I said her name, you all know her 82 00:06:56,759 --> 00:07:00,079 face, you know her story. So we wanted to use our professions and 83 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:06,560 media relations and exposure is so important for these cases. Derika's in law enforcement 84 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:13,199 and helping these families navigate the process with the police department is so important. 85 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:17,680 And if you fast forward to now and close to fifteen years and May, 86 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:23,879 we would be doing this fifteen years. We keep going because these families need 87 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:30,120 us, and the numbers continue to grow. Today forty percent of all persons 88 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:33,800 missing are of color. And what we're trying to do is to change the 89 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:41,040 narrative because we want our missing to be household names too. And bringing my 90 00:07:41,279 --> 00:07:46,240 pr background again, I wanted to use my close to two decades of experience 91 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:53,199 to really be the publicist for these families to help them get that national media 92 00:07:53,279 --> 00:07:58,319 coverage because it's so important. Want It alerts the community that someone is missing, 93 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:03,639 but it also puts pressure on law enforcement to add resources to the case, 94 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:09,279 and we see with media coverage it's a game changer. I remember a 95 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:15,040 case where we took the family on the view and within fourteen minutes of the 96 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:20,199 show airing, we received a tip that led us directly to that missing child. 97 00:08:20,879 --> 00:08:28,680 Media coverage is vital. Exposure is so important with these cases. You've 98 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:33,879 given us some really startling statistics already, just and I know that only scratches 99 00:08:33,919 --> 00:08:37,600 the surface. Can you talk a little bit about crime rates and solve rates, 100 00:08:37,639 --> 00:08:43,200 particularly for people of color? That statistic forty percent of all missing persons 101 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:48,000 are of color just floored me. Talk a little bit about solve rates if 102 00:08:48,039 --> 00:08:52,240 you can. What I would say is that number one time is of the 103 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:56,320 essence and one of the hurdles that the families face on a day to day 104 00:08:56,360 --> 00:09:01,080 basis in the black and brow community. Oftentimes, as now we've stated, 105 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:07,320 their cases are met with silence, with law enforcement not really taking those cases 106 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:11,159 seriously not taking the police report, and if they decide to take the police 107 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:16,559 report, classifying our youth as runaways, we all know that runaways are not 108 00:09:16,639 --> 00:09:20,279 receiving the Amber alert, and quite frankly, there's no sense of urgency and 109 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:24,639 finding them. And when it comes to adultse they like to and law and 110 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:30,200 I'm speaking to law enforcement, but law enforcement like to associate their disappearance with 111 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:35,600 some sort of criminal activity, and it really dehumanized and desensitized the fact that 112 00:09:35,639 --> 00:09:41,159 these are valuable members of our community. So when these cases come to us 113 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:46,600 again, time is of the essence, and we approach each case the saying, 114 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:50,559 we have to get this information out there instantly, regardless of how long 115 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:56,039 that individual has been missing. Once we learn of it, time is of 116 00:09:56,080 --> 00:10:01,639 the essence, and we start circulating those flyers on our social media platforms, 117 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:07,639 encouraging the families to circulate the flyers that we create. And let me just 118 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,919 take a step back. The reason we create flyers on behalf of these families 119 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:18,159 is because they are taking matters into their own hands when law enforcement is failing 120 00:10:18,279 --> 00:10:22,919 them. So on the flyers that they're creating, they're putting their personal information 121 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:26,600 on there. So in addition to dealing with the fact that their loved one 122 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:30,559 is missing. Now they're having to deal with those scam and ranks and calls 123 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:35,559 because their number is interface to with the general public and everyone doesn't have great 124 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:39,679 intentions, so we deal with that often. But what we can say is 125 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:46,960 that since our inception, nearly fifteen years in the making, we have helped 126 00:10:46,039 --> 00:10:52,759 reunite brain closure to nearly four hundred families across this country. Not all cases 127 00:10:52,879 --> 00:10:58,679 have that wonderful ending, but there is a sense of and we don't even 128 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:03,159 like to utilize the terminology closure, but there is some valuable information that the 129 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:07,360 family now has. But I would say that our cases, even half and 130 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:13,159 half of those that were able to find reunite and help families get those resources. 131 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:18,360 And then sadly, there are so many families out there that don't have 132 00:11:18,639 --> 00:11:22,679 that same fate. And I just want to add one of the things that 133 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,639 we see that really impacts recovery. And I hate to say this, but 134 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:31,159 it's really a sad fact that the media and law enforcement they take some cases 135 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:37,440 less seriously than others. Right, So the perception is if you are black 136 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:41,320 or brown, you're involved with some type of criminal activity. You live in 137 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:48,240 a certain zip code, you don't have the education or the wherewithal. It's 138 00:11:48,279 --> 00:11:54,440 really disheartening. And what we are doing is changing the narrative that these are 139 00:11:54,559 --> 00:12:00,519 missing. Mothers and fathers, grandparents are our children, and they're very valuable 140 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:05,200 members of our community, and we need to hold the media and law enforcement 141 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:09,000 accountable as well as our community. We know that our community plays a major 142 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:13,159 role in all of this, and we all look at the news and we 143 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,559 know that there's an inherent russ with law enforcement and the community. But we 144 00:12:16,639 --> 00:12:22,080 look like our community and we have platforms available. If someone has a tip, 145 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:26,279 well they want to report their loved one missing, they can do so 146 00:12:26,639 --> 00:12:31,559 on our platform. Do you find that your involvement, then it seems like 147 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:35,480 it's very multifacited. In other words, I think even just involving black and 148 00:12:35,519 --> 00:12:43,519 missing and your team with a case might help the families understand what steps they 149 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,799 need to take to get the word out. As you were talking about how 150 00:12:46,799 --> 00:12:50,320 critical the timing is, particularly in the early stages of a missing person's case, 151 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:56,000 I was also wondering if law enforcement have a tendency to step up their 152 00:12:56,120 --> 00:13:03,559 game and media people the same because a professional organization like yourselves have stepped in 153 00:13:03,639 --> 00:13:07,279 this advocate or it's almost like a coaching role or acting as their pr people. 154 00:13:07,399 --> 00:13:11,639 I can speak from the law enforcement perspective, they are the gatekeepers and 155 00:13:11,799 --> 00:13:18,279 sadly, across this country, a missing persons isn't consider a priority and most 156 00:13:18,279 --> 00:13:24,159 police departments they are evaluated based on how many homicides they can close, their 157 00:13:24,279 --> 00:13:28,799 robbery burglary rates, and so when they look at missing persons, especially adults, 158 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,759 they feel these are adults they can come and go as they please. 159 00:13:33,159 --> 00:13:37,159 So there really isn't a lot of resources dedicated to those unique view nits. 160 00:13:37,399 --> 00:13:43,679 If they have a missing person's unit, there's oftentimes contacting these police departments across 161 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:48,440 the country. There may be one or two police officers that are assigned to 162 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:54,480 the missing person's area. A lot of them are very forthcoming and very open 163 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:58,679 about the limited resources that they have and the need for our organization to even 164 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:03,279 as them. They learn about us when we reach out to them, because 165 00:14:03,279 --> 00:14:07,519 every case that comes into the Black and Missing Foundation we have to verify. 166 00:14:07,799 --> 00:14:09,879 And I'll use as an example the other night, I was on the phone 167 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:16,000 with a police department and the detective I was transferred to the detective and he 168 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:20,039 was overwhelmed with the fact that here's someone that can further assist him because they 169 00:14:20,039 --> 00:14:26,639 don't have all those resources at their fingertip to create a flyer for that missing 170 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:31,559 person to disseminate it. And so he asked, could you please share the 171 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:35,679 flyer that you all created and then I'm going to share that internally until we 172 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:41,960 can get our flyer up. So just being able to position ourselves as allies, 173 00:14:41,159 --> 00:14:45,440 we are not trying to step on their toes. We want them to 174 00:14:45,559 --> 00:14:50,200 see us as partners, and we want the families to understand that we know 175 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:54,279 how to bridge that gap with law enforcement. So again it is a benefit 176 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:58,480 for the families for us to be able to walk them through that process, 177 00:14:58,679 --> 00:15:03,879 but also with law enfor were meant to see that here's an organization that has 178 00:15:03,279 --> 00:15:07,840 law enforcement experience, so they know how to walk the walk and talk to 179 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:13,480 talk. So I think it's all about building those relationships. From a media 180 00:15:13,519 --> 00:15:18,080 perspective, we have come a long way, but we do have some really 181 00:15:18,159 --> 00:15:22,919 strong media partners with all of pretty much all of the national networks. We 182 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:28,399 have partnerships with reporters. There was a family that we were helping last year, 183 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:33,639 and I remember the family calling the local stations to get coverage for their 184 00:15:33,679 --> 00:15:37,799 missing child and no one would cover it. But we were able to pick 185 00:15:37,879 --> 00:15:43,240 up the phone and call that assignment desk editor and they were able to cover 186 00:15:43,399 --> 00:15:48,600 that story. So again, we can't do this work by ourselves. And 187 00:15:48,679 --> 00:15:54,600 that media exposure. It's powerful and it has proven to be very effective, 188 00:15:54,840 --> 00:16:00,320 and we have to continue those partnerships with the gatekeepers. Unfortunately, they don't 189 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:04,080 look like us. Primarily the ones that are making the decision as to who 190 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:10,679 would get coverage middle aged white men, right, so they really connecting with 191 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:15,000 our stories. So we are also trying to have diversity in the newsroom. 192 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:22,080 We offer a fellowship and scholarship to our future generations so that they can add 193 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:26,480 their voice to it and have value and tell the stories that matter to our 194 00:16:26,519 --> 00:16:30,399 community. Let's go ahead and talk a little bit about the HBO mini series 195 00:16:30,519 --> 00:16:36,600 from twenty twenty one. How ultimately did that series come into being and what 196 00:16:36,679 --> 00:16:41,600 were your goals with that series? Solidade O'Brien, she saw us. We 197 00:16:41,679 --> 00:16:45,159 won an award in twenty seventeen with Black Girl's Rock when it was a Change 198 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:51,759 Maker's Award. She saw us, and she was really intrigued by the work 199 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:56,480 that we do and really around this issue, and she wanted to shed a 200 00:16:56,639 --> 00:17:02,080 light on it and really to give a bird's eye view as to the challenges 201 00:17:02,159 --> 00:17:07,000 that not only we face, but families face in getting media coverage and law 202 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:11,880 enforcement assistance when their loved one goes missing. And I think that it has 203 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:18,079 been well received. The docuseries won five awards, and it has really elevated 204 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:23,160 the organization and the work that we do because people, meaning institutions like law 205 00:17:23,279 --> 00:17:27,799 enforcement, the media, and our community, they are reaching out to us 206 00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:33,119 and they're saying, I didn't know this issue existed, how can I help? 207 00:17:33,279 --> 00:17:36,720 So that's what we want to see. We want to see more people 208 00:17:37,079 --> 00:17:42,160 our communities continue to work together to not only find these missing individuals, but 209 00:17:42,279 --> 00:17:48,960 let's take a look at the systemic issues that are affecting these individuals why they're 210 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:52,440 going missing in the first place. You sex, trafficking, domestic violing, 211 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:59,079 mental health is these are issues that are plaguing our community and causing individuals to 212 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:02,680 go missing. If I could just add to what Natalie stated as well, 213 00:18:02,799 --> 00:18:07,839 the DOCY series it really gave everyone that first I view into those issues. 214 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:12,359 Actually stated it was also a call to action to help implement change. So 215 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:18,200 we have been working with lawmakers. We're trying to get rid of that classification 216 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:25,240 runaway where everyone is considered missing. We're trying to we're fighting to get rid 217 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:30,759 of that twenty four hour waiting period because time is of the essence, and 218 00:18:30,799 --> 00:18:37,079 we really challenge our community for their involvement and their respected city, state jurisdictions 219 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:44,799 to reach out to law enforcement and ask those uncomfortable questions. Do you classify 220 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:49,799 missing as runaway? Do you require families to wait twenty four hours if they 221 00:18:49,799 --> 00:18:53,240 are a waiting period before detective is assigned to the cave, if there are 222 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:57,200 a waiting period before the cave get entered into mc C, which is the 223 00:18:57,319 --> 00:19:02,880 National Crime Information Center. So these are so low hanging fruit that the community 224 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:11,440 members can also ask their respective police jurisdictions. But the documseries also created great 225 00:19:11,559 --> 00:19:15,440 partnerships and relationships for us as well, as Natalie stated, with the media, 226 00:19:15,519 --> 00:19:22,559 with law enforcement, even with Stanford University. We actually had a class 227 00:19:22,599 --> 00:19:27,799 this past fall that talks about these issues and how we can have advocacy in 228 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:32,880 these groups helping to move the mission forward. To help us find us. 229 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:37,960 You mentioned something earlier which I think is so critical, which is that of 230 00:19:38,079 --> 00:19:42,039 missing people are people of color, and yet I feel like it's only in 231 00:19:42,079 --> 00:19:48,119 the last couple of years I've heard any kind of in depth discussion of the 232 00:19:48,319 --> 00:19:52,720 idea of missing white woman syndrome and how certain types of cases. You mentioned 233 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:57,319 the Natalie Holloway case and the Gabby Petito and there's so many other examples of 234 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:03,920 this where the media just goes absolutely bonkers over certain cases, almost always involving 235 00:20:04,079 --> 00:20:10,759 missing young white women. And that's a serious I don't want to diminish somebody 236 00:20:10,839 --> 00:20:15,359 because they are an attractive young white woman, but this idea that there seems 237 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:21,240 to be like no balance in terms of the coverage or even the allocation of 238 00:20:21,319 --> 00:20:26,440 law enforcement resources. Do you feel like there's any more concrete steps being taken 239 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:32,599 by all of these players to address the fact that we seem to be focusing 240 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:37,880 still on so many cases that involve people who are not of color. I 241 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:45,279 want to be positive here. White women's syndrome exists when Eiffel journalists called it 242 00:20:45,319 --> 00:20:49,920 out. Most recently, we saw the Gabby Petito case, and she dominated 243 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:56,200 the news cycle, and even her father Sick. Coverage that they received was 244 00:20:56,519 --> 00:21:02,599 unprecedented and it was overwhelming. But there are a sector of our societies that's 245 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:07,200 not getting that media coverage and that present that's what we're working to change. 246 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:14,319 When we first started the organization, according to the Urban Institute, only seven 247 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:19,319 percent of missing people of color got any type of media coverage at all, 248 00:21:19,559 --> 00:21:23,960 and I don't think that number. Even though we have been working extremely hard 249 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,680 to change it, it has changed a bit, but we still have a 250 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:33,359 lot more work to do. We realize that when our girls are missing, 251 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:40,640 they're often adultified. They're seen as fast or promiscuous, not seen as victims, 252 00:21:40,759 --> 00:21:44,759 and what we're trying to do is to change that narrative. They are 253 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:51,279 victims many times because we know that there are more young black girls that are 254 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:55,200 victims of sex trafficking, and the pimps and pedophiles are saying, you know 255 00:21:55,240 --> 00:22:00,559 what, my penalty or punishment wouldn't be as harsh for making a young black 256 00:22:00,599 --> 00:22:03,920 girls. So we really need to take a look at these laws. Going 257 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:08,960 back a bit to the docuseries, we have been invited to newsrooms, national 258 00:22:10,079 --> 00:22:15,279 newsrooms across the country, and what we're realizing is there's no policy in place 259 00:22:15,559 --> 00:22:19,400 as to how these decisions are made. So a family calls the news station, 260 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:26,799 how do they decide who gets that news coverage? There isn't any policy. 261 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,640 So we really have to do a better job, and we need to 262 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,960 step up to the plate. But again, we all have a responsibility to 263 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:38,599 do that, and we also need to hold our elected leaders responsible. We 264 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:45,000 need to go out there and vote because we need people in office that can 265 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:49,640 make sure that there are processes in place to protect those that are most vulnerable. 266 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,920 You're listening to Mind over Murder. We'll be right back after this word 267 00:22:53,960 --> 00:23:03,359 from our sponsors. We're back here mind over Murder speaking again at the media 268 00:23:03,519 --> 00:23:07,839 for a moment. What are some action steps that the media could be really 269 00:23:07,839 --> 00:23:12,039 more to the point, should be taking to solve the issue of underrepresentation and 270 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:18,119 poor coverage. One thing that we say is less is more so less of 271 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:22,599 one individual and more of everyone else, even the playing field. And again 272 00:23:22,759 --> 00:23:29,000 our heart goes out to anyone who has a missing loved one and we don't 273 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:33,119 want to know them to feel as though that these individuals lives don't matter or 274 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:37,920 doesn't matter, But it does. But our missing their lives matter as well, 275 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:44,000 and again we need to have more diversity in the newsroom, people that 276 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,400 look like us, that are willing to say, you know what, this 277 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:52,000 story is important and we need to tell it. And again having those policies 278 00:23:52,039 --> 00:24:00,920 and procedures in place where one person isn't making a decision based on on AD 279 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:07,039 dollars or ratings. This is missing person, a valuable member of our community 280 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:11,799 and their family their community want them home as well. I think it's a 281 00:24:11,839 --> 00:24:17,319 significant challenge that needs to be brought up over and over again. And this 282 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:22,200 is where having you as allies with law enforcement and the media as well as 283 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:27,640 the families that are struggling with trying to locate a missing family member, it 284 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:33,839 has to be so helpful for you to be able to step in and facilitate 285 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:38,119 things. Even something I think, Natalie, you said something a moment ago 286 00:24:38,319 --> 00:24:45,000 about the assignment editor at a particular media outlet. The average American family isn't 287 00:24:45,039 --> 00:24:51,079 going to even know what an assignment editor does. Do you find that the 288 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:56,599 fact that you've been there and done that helps in these situations? Absolutely? 289 00:24:56,839 --> 00:25:03,880 Our experience of my experience in media relations and working with reporters and knowing their 290 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,759 deadline and working with many of these reporters and know what beat they cover. 291 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:14,559 It's valuable because again I can reach out to them. I've created these relationships 292 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:21,119 and partnerships to help us navigate through this process. But I also coach families 293 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,759 as to how to work with the media. It's very overwhelming, it's challenging, 294 00:25:25,759 --> 00:25:29,480 and many of them are afraid to have a camera in their face. 295 00:25:30,319 --> 00:25:34,359 And then we also need to make sure that they come across a certain way, 296 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,720 because you want the audience to connect with that mother right whose child is 297 00:25:38,759 --> 00:25:45,200 missing. When there's that connection, then they will meaning the audience will be 298 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:52,079 more prone to want to help that family. So it's definitely a difficult balance, 299 00:25:52,279 --> 00:25:57,240 but it's something that we have been prepared for and we're glad to use 300 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:06,440 our experiences and our training to help these families navigate dereka. As a long 301 00:26:06,519 --> 00:26:11,440 time law enforcement officer, you spent twenty years in law enforcement and now you're 302 00:26:11,519 --> 00:26:17,000 consulting and working in other roles. I know there's no secret handshake or anything 303 00:26:17,039 --> 00:26:22,240 like that, but you do speak the language of your fellow law enforcement officers. 304 00:26:22,759 --> 00:26:26,119 Does it come up fairly early in the conversation if you're talking to let's 305 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:30,759 say, a law enforcement person you might not have spoken with before. Do 306 00:26:30,799 --> 00:26:34,799 you drop the fact that you were a cop for twenty years into the conversation 307 00:26:34,839 --> 00:26:40,599 early on? Oh? Absolutely, that's something that needs to be established up 308 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:45,839 front because it's that credibility, the fact that I have served, and it 309 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,039 just really helps bridge the gap for the families. Even the questions that we 310 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:55,680 ask the family our intake form it mirrors what the police should be asking for. 311 00:26:56,039 --> 00:26:59,759 So when we do reach out, we have all of that critical eyer 312 00:26:59,799 --> 00:27:04,119 for me at our fingertips. It gives them a sense of comfort as well, 313 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,599 knowing that this person knows, like we can understand some of the struggles 314 00:27:08,599 --> 00:27:12,720 that they go through if they don't have the resources, and some of them 315 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:17,920 are quite welcoming. Now, I'm not going to be naive at the fact 316 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:22,279 that fun is on board, because of course law enforcement tends to be territorial, 317 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:29,720 but I will say that over the years, we have built those relationships 318 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,960 and our name and our reputation really speaks to who we are. And at 319 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,680 the end of the day, it's not about us, it's about helping these 320 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,799 families. We want to end this nightmare for the family, So it's us 321 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,960 all coming together law enforcement, the media, and the community, and we 322 00:27:47,039 --> 00:27:52,880 just want to be able to provide them with additional resources and tools to help 323 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,960 close this case. Because what I will say with law enforcement is well, 324 00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:02,759 with the minority community, there is a lack trusts and as Natalie mentioned earlier, 325 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:07,279 we look like the community that we're serving because there is that lack of 326 00:28:07,319 --> 00:28:12,880 trust. Oftentimes we received tips, and when we receive those tips, we 327 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:18,400 share that information with law enforcements so they can further follow up. So again 328 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,880 that's how those relationships built. And as the case that Natalie mentioned earlier in 329 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:27,680 the show, when we took that family on the view and fourteen minutes later 330 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:33,240 that missing child who was missing for five months was found, that tip came 331 00:28:33,279 --> 00:28:36,799 into the Black and Missing Foundation. It didn't go to the police department. 332 00:28:37,519 --> 00:28:41,519 We alerted the police department and shared all of that information. So it really 333 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:48,880 shows the value of our organization and how our community sees us. That territorial 334 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:53,480 issue that you mentioned, though, I mean, is law enforcement willing to 335 00:28:53,559 --> 00:29:00,279 accept the fact that there may be a higher trust level among community members might 336 00:29:00,279 --> 00:29:03,279 have valuable information that they'd be more comfortable to dealing with. The Black and 337 00:29:03,359 --> 00:29:07,920 Missing Foundation than they would with their local law enforcement agency. What I will 338 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:14,400 say about that law enforcement being territorial. We can look at cases of missing 339 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:18,240 individuals and they could be missing from one particular state, and there's reason to 340 00:29:18,319 --> 00:29:23,519 believe that they may be in another state. And you have agencies, federal 341 00:29:23,559 --> 00:29:30,880 agencies such as the FBI or the US Marshal Service who's ready and willing to 342 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:36,079 assist and have a greater reach. Only if that local jurisdiction will pick up 343 00:29:36,119 --> 00:29:41,319 the phone and ask for that mutual aid. That becomes a tuggle war with 344 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:47,720 law enforcement on that local level as well as the federal level. To me, 345 00:29:47,799 --> 00:29:51,640 it looks like they're trying to figure out whose guns are bigger. But 346 00:29:51,759 --> 00:29:56,640 at the end of the day, it's the family that are really struggling here. 347 00:29:56,039 --> 00:30:03,480 So I think with our organization because we are unarmed. Of course it 348 00:30:03,599 --> 00:30:08,240 is a nonprofit, but they although I had that law enforcement background, they 349 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,240 don't have to sit here and see if my gun is but it is. 350 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:21,359 It's really connected on that humility and humanity versus that authoritative approach that law enforcement 351 00:30:21,359 --> 00:30:26,519 tends to take. One of the cases that we've covered on the podcast and 352 00:30:26,559 --> 00:30:32,160 are committed to continuing to cover is the case of Sage Smith out of Charlottesville 353 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:36,960 here in Virginia, who is a black transgender woman who disappeared in twenty twelve 354 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:44,640 in Charlottesville and got very little attention, paid, coverage, police resources. 355 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:51,039 You set her against Hannah Graham, a white UVA freshman who disappeared two years 356 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:56,160 later and had everything poured into her resources before her search, and we see 357 00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:00,519 a really stark difference in the way that the disappearances were handled by the police 358 00:31:00,559 --> 00:31:04,279 department. In addition to being a black woman, of course, you've got 359 00:31:04,319 --> 00:31:10,680 Sage Smith being a transgender woman. What are some of the issues that you 360 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:17,799 guys see when you add in the issue of gender and sexuality into the mix 361 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:22,319 with the cases that you're working with. We remember Sage's case very clearly. 362 00:31:22,519 --> 00:31:29,119 I remember working with and talking to his grandmother, her grandmother, and I 363 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:34,519 apologize with transit transgenders we're learning as well, whether it's he or she, 364 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:42,079 But I remember talking to Sage's grandmother and she just wanted answers before she died, 365 00:31:42,359 --> 00:31:48,319 and I was that was one we two run into challenges with cases like 366 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:56,079 that. The LGBTQ community, their numbers as it pertains to missing persons arts 367 00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:02,319 much and we don't believe that anyone is really keeping tabs as to the true 368 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:08,759 number of LGBTQ members of our community that are missing like Sage, and we 369 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:14,480 do have to do a better job in protecting them. I feel strongly in 370 00:32:14,519 --> 00:32:17,720 the Sage Smith case. I actually still feel, and Kristin and I have 371 00:32:17,799 --> 00:32:22,920 covered Sage's case recently, we feel that is a solvable case. And there 372 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:28,480 is a suspect who's a boyfriend of Sage Smith's who went into the wind right 373 00:32:28,559 --> 00:32:34,000 after Sage's disappearance. He's never come back to Charlottesville as far as we can 374 00:32:34,039 --> 00:32:37,640 tell, but I believe if he's still alive, and I think he is, 375 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,400 I think he can be found again. This comes down to time, 376 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:45,079 attention, and resources, as we've seen in my sister's case, the Colonial 377 00:32:45,119 --> 00:32:49,359 Parkway murders, and any number of other cases that Kristin and I have covered 378 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,480 on the podcast. I still think Sagees case could be solved, but they've 379 00:32:53,559 --> 00:32:59,960 got to put some resources into finding this former boyfriend. I certainly agree. 380 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:05,720 I think that sometime it even requires a different set of eyes, new lens 381 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,799 on the case. How many times have you written an email or a paper 382 00:33:10,039 --> 00:33:15,359 and it reads exactly the way you want it to until you press sent and 383 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:20,000 you realize you have a type of It's the same way with a case. 384 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:28,000 You are, especially those that are really invested. You are looking at this 385 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,000 evidence, You're looking at all of this information, and it's really you're trying 386 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:36,079 to put a puzzle together. But sometimes you need someone else to come in. 387 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:40,079 And even with law enforcement, that is the way law enforcement approaches, 388 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:45,720 that's how they approach things within the police department. With even cases, Once 389 00:33:45,759 --> 00:33:49,519 that officer writes a case, the report, it goes to someone else to 390 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,759 review it, and depending on the circumstances of the case, you may have 391 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:58,200 a third reviewer, a second or third reviewer. So I think when you 392 00:33:58,279 --> 00:34:04,160 have cases such as is before you even get submitted, when there's an open, 393 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,360 active investigation, sometimes you just need a fresh set of eyes to take 394 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:12,719 a look and see if there's any holes in it. And even if you 395 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:17,639 saw the docuseries the case of Derek Butler whose sister Pamela was missing, right, 396 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:23,199 he utilized that media relationship, the relationship that he had with reporters, 397 00:34:23,519 --> 00:34:30,960 and he kept them abreast of what was going on. They kept Pamela's case 398 00:34:30,079 --> 00:34:36,199 in the forefront, and it forced law enforcement to add resources to the case, 399 00:34:36,559 --> 00:34:39,800 and as Dereka mentioned, getting that fresh set of eyes, they had 400 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:45,519 a new detective assigned and the end result is they were able to solve two 401 00:34:45,639 --> 00:34:52,119 murders because of the fresh set of eyes. So it goes back again to 402 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:58,719 keeping cases like this in the forefront. I am sure the community believes that 403 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:04,400 Sages case has been solved or some type of resolution, and it hasn't because 404 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:09,239 there's been no media attraction, no awareness, continued awareness around it. So 405 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:15,880 we're not naive to believe that every case will get coverage year round. But 406 00:35:15,039 --> 00:35:20,239 sometimes you have to be creative. What can you do to keep this case 407 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:25,760 in the forefront so that there can be answers for the families. One of 408 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:31,559 the local cases here that is a major concern is missing four year old Cody 409 00:35:31,599 --> 00:35:37,239 Bigsby, and he's about to hit the year mark here in January thirty, 410 00:35:37,679 --> 00:35:43,079 so so important to keep that case in the media. There have been times 411 00:35:43,079 --> 00:35:46,360 when I have looked in the newspaper or checked all the local media listings to 412 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:50,960 see has there been an update on Cody, and you don't get them nearly 413 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,000 as often as I feel like they should be gotten. What are some steps 414 00:35:54,039 --> 00:35:59,679 that we as podcasters and really just anybody in the community can do to keep 415 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:05,159 this is like Cody's in the media, keep highlighting it around the anniversary, 416 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:09,199 reach out to the detective to say, hey, do you have an update 417 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:13,920 on this case. I would like to use my voice, my power, 418 00:36:14,039 --> 00:36:19,880 my platform to keep the community aware as to the outcome of this case. 419 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,719 And once you do that, you will see I've seen it time and time 420 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:28,039 again with our media partners. When we have a family on the show and 421 00:36:28,079 --> 00:36:31,920 they reach out to law enforcement for an update, they start working on the 422 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:37,360 case again. So again, it's just keeping these cases in the forefront, 423 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:44,360 whether it's an anniversary of vigil, a balloon, release, a small bit 424 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:50,119 of information, anything that can keep it in the forefront so that these individuals 425 00:36:50,199 --> 00:36:55,519 will be remembered and the community will know that this individual still has not returned 426 00:36:55,559 --> 00:37:01,800 home and the bags because they just announced a vigil and there seems to be 427 00:37:02,159 --> 00:37:07,400 some renewed energy. Sadly, I don't think this case is going to end 428 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,320 well, but I do think, and I don't want to be mentioned resisting 429 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:15,280 the idea of closure. We also talk about that on the podcast quite a 430 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:19,679 bit. I'm just completely uncomfortable as the brother of a murder victim. There 431 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,599 is no closure. I only say that to us all the time. There's 432 00:37:22,639 --> 00:37:27,239 no such thing as closure. You may have answers, but no closure. 433 00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,639 Right. Sometimes people will talk about justice, and I think justice seems awfully 434 00:37:30,639 --> 00:37:35,440 far off on the horizon as well, and answers is about as comfortable as 435 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:39,679 I can so. Sadly, I'm not terribly optimistic in the Cody Biggs case, 436 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:44,320 but I think that the fact that we do have the one year anniversary 437 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:49,039 coming up, Kristen, I think does afford the community and opportunity to really 438 00:37:49,119 --> 00:37:52,519 redouble its efforts to getting the word out. There's a possibility that Cody could 439 00:37:52,519 --> 00:37:55,360 be somewhere, and one way or another, we need to find out. 440 00:37:57,119 --> 00:38:00,639 I certainly agree with that. I also think, in addition to reaching out 441 00:38:00,679 --> 00:38:07,519 to law enforcement and inquiring about their efforts, also inquiring about the Amber alert. 442 00:38:07,599 --> 00:38:13,760 This Amber alert has been out for so long the criteria needs to be 443 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:19,480 updated. Cody never received an Amber alert, so Cody is really not known 444 00:38:19,679 --> 00:38:25,360 outside of the Virginia Richmond Hampton, Newport News area, not on that national 445 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:30,559 level. Because again, he could absolutely anywhere, but we don't know unless 446 00:38:30,599 --> 00:38:36,639 we try. We're hoping for the best outcome for Cody, but at this 447 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,360 point we have to not just think outside the box. We need to remove 448 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:44,400 the box. Cody could be in Florida, he can be in California, 449 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,920 if he can be in Atlanta, the world around us is not aware of 450 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:53,280 Cody's disappearance a four year old. That's very powerful because you're right now, 451 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:59,119 Kristen is in the Williamsburg area, so she sees some of the media coverage 452 00:38:59,199 --> 00:39:04,239 around he's disappearance. But that wasn't even close to a national story. No, 453 00:39:04,599 --> 00:39:06,719 not at all, and it really should have been. And that is 454 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:12,400 definitely something that we are committed to continuing to put forward through our platform. 455 00:39:12,519 --> 00:39:15,280 Is we do not have nearly the size platform that you all do, but 456 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:19,119 we definitely want to make sure that Cody Cody's name continues to be out there 457 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,599 because you're right thinking, we don't. You're right, we don't know where 458 00:39:22,639 --> 00:39:27,199 he could be and I'm still hoping that there may be a happy ending there 459 00:39:27,199 --> 00:39:30,519 for that little boy too. I wanted to ask you a question, draw 460 00:39:30,559 --> 00:39:32,639 a little bit of a line here. I don't want to make it sound 461 00:39:32,679 --> 00:39:37,360 like I'm hinting at something in Cody's case. One of the things I was 462 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:42,880 thinking about. For these cases that stretch on longer, it certainly feels to 463 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:47,840 us that sometimes you begin to at least consider the possibility that we may be 464 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:53,079 talking about a murder in some of these examples and not a person that's gone 465 00:39:53,079 --> 00:39:59,760 missing. As the months or years stretch on, do you find that you're 466 00:40:00,159 --> 00:40:05,599 role as advocates and supporters, if you will, of the family members, 467 00:40:05,599 --> 00:40:09,400 does it begin to change in those examples. We never want families to give 468 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:14,360 up on hope, and we're not giving up on them as well, because 469 00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:20,119 we have seen miracles happen. I think the world has seen miracles happen when 470 00:40:20,119 --> 00:40:22,559 you think about the Elizabeth Smart, the J. C. Dugard, and 471 00:40:22,599 --> 00:40:25,760 the list goes on and on. But these families see that, and these 472 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:30,440 families have seen well, we've had cases of individuals that have been missing for 473 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:37,440 quite some time and we're able to reunite them with their families. So we 474 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:42,639 build our organization solely on hope because we're not going to give up, and 475 00:40:42,679 --> 00:40:45,280 we're not going to allow them to give up. And we want these families 476 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:51,920 to know that they have an ally with us and we are doing everything that 477 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:57,280 we can to help find their missing loved one. So we hold their hands 478 00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:01,400 in many times, many instances, cry with them. We provide them the 479 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:08,320 resources that they need to uplift themselves and to hold on because, as dere 480 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:15,360 Con mentioned, we have seen miracles happen where individuals were missing for ten years 481 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:21,960 and they were able to escape or be found. So we again lead with 482 00:41:22,119 --> 00:41:27,400 hope and empowerment. But the takeaway here is we can't do this work by 483 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:34,320 ourselves. Someone knows something, and if it's your family member that's missing, 484 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:38,239 you would want the community to get involved and to just hold on to hope 485 00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:43,840 that they would be one day reunited with their loved one. Well at least 486 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:50,119 have answers. So how can people who want to support your organization and the 487 00:41:50,119 --> 00:41:52,199 good work that you're doing, how can we help you? What can we 488 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:55,920 be doing to make sure that you have the funding that you need and the 489 00:41:55,920 --> 00:42:00,199 publicity and the coverage and everything else you need. What can we do to 490 00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:02,360 help? How can we be your allies? There are a number of ways. 491 00:42:02,599 --> 00:42:07,760 I'll start with social media. We need our community, whether or not 492 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:13,159 you are a person of color to be our digital milk carton. So if 493 00:42:13,199 --> 00:42:15,760 you see a profile you may not know the missing individuals, share it with 494 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:21,079 your network. We just need one person to come forward with information to help 495 00:42:21,159 --> 00:42:28,920 find them. Since the HBO docuseries and the pandemic, our caseload has increased 496 00:42:29,079 --> 00:42:36,280 tremendously and we need resources. We need funding to help these families, whether 497 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:44,280 it's with flyers, printing flyers, it's very expensive print designing and printing flyers, 498 00:42:44,559 --> 00:42:50,119 financial support. Many times these families can't go to work because they're looking 499 00:42:50,159 --> 00:42:55,119 for their missing loved one. They need financial support and sadly, sometimes when 500 00:42:55,159 --> 00:43:00,119 the individual is found, they're found is ceased and they need help with burial 501 00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:07,800 services. Around the holidays, we provide toys and financial support for families with 502 00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:13,840 little ones since we want them to have a good holiday as well or Christmas. 503 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:19,880 So just providing support and rallying around these families they need help. As 504 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:23,039 a community, again, it doesn't matter matter if you're black or why, 505 00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:29,519 your race, your ethnicity. We can all do something because this is a 506 00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:36,800 pandemic that has been affecting our nation. It's not just the black community. 507 00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:42,239 So we'll include links to the Black and Missing Foundation in our show notes and 508 00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,920 we'll show people how they can donate and show support for the good work that 509 00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:51,480 you're doing, as well as some of your social media links. Everything is 510 00:43:51,519 --> 00:43:55,719 available at the Black and Missing Foundation dot org website as well, so you 511 00:43:55,760 --> 00:44:01,880 can go to be amfi dot rg. That's a very short url, the 512 00:44:02,079 --> 00:44:10,760 amfi dot org perfect and the docuseries is still available on HBO correct. It's 513 00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:15,800 streaming on HBO Max. Yes, excellent, and we will please check it 514 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:17,840 out and let us know your thoughts. We will link to that as well. 515 00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:23,360 We'd like to thank Natalie and Dereka Wilson for the outstanding work they're doing 516 00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:28,599 with the Black and Missing Foundation and for taking the time to talk with us 517 00:44:28,679 --> 00:44:32,400 today on mind Over Murder. We urge you to support this organization and we 518 00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:37,119 look forward to future conversations with them. That's going to do it for this 519 00:44:37,199 --> 00:44:40,199 episode of mind Over Murder. Thank you so much for joining us, and 520 00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:54,800 we'll see you next time. Mind Over Murder is a production of Absolute Zero 521 00:44:55,159 --> 00:45:00,679 and Another Dog Productions. Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley. 522 00:45:01,039 --> 00:45:07,159 Our logo art is by Pamela Arnois. Our theme music is by Kevin McLeod. 523 00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:12,679 Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership with Coral Space Media. You can 524 00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:15,920 follow us on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. You can also follow our 525 00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:21,400 page on the Colonial Parkway Murders on Facebook, and finally, you can follow 526 00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:25,199 Bill Thomas on Twitter at Bill Thomas. Five six. Thank you for listening 527 00:45:25,559 --> 00:45:28,119 to mind Over Murder.