WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.400 --> 00:00:10.240 With Laurent's segalent from London and Gerard read from Berlin. This is redefining energy 2 00:00:10.679 --> 00:00:16.519 minutes minutes. So John, let's start with the number. Oh, go 3 00:00:16.600 --> 00:00:20.519 on, give me the number. The number is ten thousand dollars, Paton. 4 00:00:21.320 --> 00:00:25.519 And to give you a clue, it has doubled into twenty three. 5 00:00:26.000 --> 00:00:33.240 It's doubled in two. Oiler oil, olive oiler, olive oil, olive 6 00:00:33.240 --> 00:00:35.679 oil. Of course it has because the weather. All right, course, 7 00:00:35.799 --> 00:00:43.920 oh my god, it's a ten thousand Wow Jesus. Draught disease production in 8 00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:49.719 the EU down forty last year. So olive oil is becoming a luxury. 9 00:00:52.359 --> 00:00:56.000 Don't laugh, it's a tragedy. Do you know why I'm laughing, Because 10 00:00:56.000 --> 00:00:59.679 I tell you why i'm laughing. I'm laughing because what we're going to talk 11 00:00:59.719 --> 00:01:04.280 about today is clean tech investments. And actually, for me, one of 12 00:01:04.319 --> 00:01:08.480 the most interesting areas agriculture. And the fact that you start with olive oil 13 00:01:08.719 --> 00:01:12.120 leads me on to agriculture, is that. Listen, there's a huge change 14 00:01:12.159 --> 00:01:15.359 going on in the whole world of agriculture. Right. I've got you know 15 00:01:15.400 --> 00:01:19.879 where I'm living in Germany. You've got the farmers on the streets protesting and 16 00:01:19.079 --> 00:01:23.640 and there's lots of new technologies there. So that's why I was laughing. 17 00:01:23.959 --> 00:01:30.079 The idea of this episode game because of that report clean Tech one hundred, 18 00:01:30.319 --> 00:01:34.400 and we'll put the link in the show notes. It's a fantastic report. 19 00:01:34.439 --> 00:01:41.000 Who presents the hottest one hundred startups in the clean tech sector. I want 20 00:01:41.000 --> 00:01:44.519 to put my hats out to Richard Youngman, who has been doing this for 21 00:01:44.560 --> 00:01:48.079 fifteen years. A clean tech group. I actually thought about a decade ago 22 00:01:48.519 --> 00:01:51.840 they should change the name because clean tech was one of those dirty words. 23 00:01:51.840 --> 00:01:56.159 But somehow it survived, and actually it's not so dirty anymore. It's clean. 24 00:01:57.760 --> 00:02:05.560 They have a fantastic advisory board Cycle Capital Marathon Engine You Venture Carbon Trust, 25 00:02:05.640 --> 00:02:12.199 Joazio Capricorn. He has managed to put a lot of very very clever 26 00:02:12.960 --> 00:02:19.960 judges. First of all, the big picture is the hangover, and the 27 00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:24.879 hangover is a clin tech investment into twenty three was done forty percent and in 28 00:02:24.960 --> 00:02:30.639 terms of amount we go back to tour twenty so we had the crazy excess 29 00:02:30.719 --> 00:02:35.560 of toward twenty one to or twenty two and now the party's over. Well, 30 00:02:35.599 --> 00:02:39.039 actually I'd say that the hype cycle is over all in the party and 31 00:02:39.080 --> 00:02:44.240 I listened. I'm someone that i've obviously I'm doing corporate finance advisory in the 32 00:02:44.240 --> 00:02:47.400 space, and it was just crazy around. And you saw this yourself with 33 00:02:47.520 --> 00:02:53.599 the SPACs and the crazy businesses that certainly had multi billion dollar businesses and they 34 00:02:53.639 --> 00:02:57.680 hadn't had any they didn't have anything much. Hypes is not always a good 35 00:02:57.680 --> 00:03:00.280 thing because what tends to happen is the bubble bar, so the bubbler's burst. 36 00:03:00.919 --> 00:03:04.439 I think clean tech is here to stay. And let's be clear, 37 00:03:04.479 --> 00:03:07.639 it's not just clean tech is the old VC universe. If you look at 38 00:03:07.039 --> 00:03:15.039 crunch Base Peach Book, the all the VC rounds are minus fifty or even 39 00:03:15.120 --> 00:03:17.280 sixty percent, So you know a certain weigh down, forty percent is a 40 00:03:17.319 --> 00:03:22.520 bit better than the rest of the industry. We've just started twenty twenty four 41 00:03:23.319 --> 00:03:29.680 and we've seen the biggest private equity investment in history in Europe and that's Northfold, 42 00:03:29.960 --> 00:03:32.960 right, yeah, yeah, all right, So there is still let's 43 00:03:32.960 --> 00:03:38.039 say, appetite, and actually, more importantly, there's a strategic realization case 44 00:03:38.080 --> 00:03:43.960 in point Northfold that we really do need to invest into these technologies because a 45 00:03:43.960 --> 00:03:47.080 critical and not a different way as a critical to the future of the planet. 46 00:03:47.159 --> 00:03:53.120 They're also very very important from a competitive point of view and as well. 47 00:03:53.240 --> 00:03:59.840 So yeah, the report as five subsect dolls, and we're gonna touch 48 00:04:00.439 --> 00:04:04.319 from the smallest to the largest. So the smallest is, as you said, 49 00:04:04.560 --> 00:04:13.479 agriculture. Then we have logistic and transportation, then we have materials, 50 00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:18.720 then what they call resources, environment, and finally energy. So I've also 51 00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:25.120 counted the countries of origin out of one hundred, USA thirty nine, Europe 52 00:04:25.160 --> 00:04:30.560 thirty nine, Canada thirteen, Australia three, Israeli toi, China two, 53 00:04:30.800 --> 00:04:34.439 India one, Singapore one, Korea, Japan zero, So it's a bit 54 00:04:34.480 --> 00:04:40.279 of a Western skewed ranking. Yeah, you're absolutely right on that. I 55 00:04:40.319 --> 00:04:43.319 mean, that's indeed the Asians, if I may say, do it in 56 00:04:43.360 --> 00:04:46.439 a slightly different way, which they tend to do more I would say in 57 00:04:46.519 --> 00:04:50.600 house. Right. Yeah, So agriculture, while it has really gone down 58 00:04:50.839 --> 00:04:56.639 because there was the bubble of all those beyond meat impossible burghers and so on. 59 00:04:57.120 --> 00:05:00.040 You're absolutely right. So that's that whole alternative protein area, which is, 60 00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:04.639 in other words, what's the alternative to eating beef really beef? And 61 00:05:04.720 --> 00:05:11.079 the reason beef is because of the methane emissions in relation to farming beef and 62 00:05:11.160 --> 00:05:15.680 cattle. You know, I follow that area very very interesting, interesting. 63 00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:19.839 I don't know if you've tried these beyond burger alternative meats. I mean they 64 00:05:19.920 --> 00:05:25.120 actually taste okay, they taste good actually, right, But still you're that 65 00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:27.319 there was a huge amount of hype in that area. But that area is 66 00:05:27.360 --> 00:05:30.240 not going to go away. For me. It's more exciting in the whole 67 00:05:30.279 --> 00:05:36.199 agricultural area is back into We've got climate change going all around us, which 68 00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:40.720 we're going to need drought resistant crops, and there's going to be a whole 69 00:05:40.839 --> 00:05:43.720 change in the way we do agriculture here. And so I think that area 70 00:05:43.759 --> 00:05:46.279 is going to get very exciting over the next few years. You know, 71 00:05:46.759 --> 00:05:51.600 of course, Giniditina, that's going to take exactly things exactly exactly. Okay, 72 00:05:51.680 --> 00:05:57.720 So let's move second category transportation and logistics. So here it's ride a 73 00:05:57.839 --> 00:06:03.600 laing a lot of software around ev charging, battery data analyze this, So 74 00:06:03.720 --> 00:06:11.079 that's everything around electric mobility, and obviously that's also a huge growth area going 75 00:06:11.079 --> 00:06:15.720 forward, is that whole decarbonization of transport, which is really really, really 76 00:06:15.720 --> 00:06:18.800 critical, and that takes also in a little bit of the hydrogen area, 77 00:06:19.040 --> 00:06:24.240 also the battery area and stuff like that. Very very exciting going forward. 78 00:06:24.759 --> 00:06:29.519 Okay, next sector matterials and chemicals. And by the way, the material 79 00:06:29.879 --> 00:06:32.319 chemicals, if I may say, that's actually the heart of everything. Yes, 80 00:06:32.439 --> 00:06:35.399 because if you look at it, if we want to go and bring 81 00:06:35.439 --> 00:06:41.439 in better batteries, we need better materials. If we want to improve let's 82 00:06:41.480 --> 00:06:46.199 see the use of pesticides and insecticides in and around farming. Again, it's 83 00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:48.519 back to material use in chemicals. So this is a critical, critical area 84 00:06:48.519 --> 00:06:54.800 and it's one of those really really difficult areas to understand. Yeah, look 85 00:06:54.839 --> 00:06:57.279 for me for it's the hardest. And if I look at the least, 86 00:06:57.279 --> 00:07:02.680 you've got busted metals still making brimstone, they try to do carbon neutral cement. 87 00:07:03.439 --> 00:07:10.839 You have new type of plastics, new chemicals. This is really heart 88 00:07:10.839 --> 00:07:14.399 tach. It is tech. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, See that's 89 00:07:14.399 --> 00:07:18.360 sup. So we're going to move next to what they call resources and environment. 90 00:07:19.040 --> 00:07:25.800 And here we have a lot of carbon recycling, we have pressibility software 91 00:07:26.040 --> 00:07:30.040 for supply chain, a lot of circular economy here. But that's where we 92 00:07:30.120 --> 00:07:36.240 also find our friend from Kero Sero Space is in the list directly to extraction. 93 00:07:38.319 --> 00:07:41.199 For me, that's all circular economy. Yeah. I think what's also 94 00:07:41.240 --> 00:07:46.160 interesting that there is, although the deal volume the amount of capital invested collapsed, 95 00:07:47.079 --> 00:07:51.240 actually the number of deals increase quite substantially. And this is obviously a 96 00:07:51.399 --> 00:07:56.000 very very very important area. But I mean my own unit, it's just 97 00:07:56.040 --> 00:08:01.399 difficult to really really scale businesses in and around that area. It's a bit 98 00:08:01.439 --> 00:08:03.800 of really of a mixed bag because I don't really know. You get stuff 99 00:08:03.879 --> 00:08:11.360 like lader hyperspectual imaging and machine learning algorithm technologies. I mean, if you 100 00:08:11.439 --> 00:08:18.120 present me a deal like that, what to say anyway? And of course, 101 00:08:18.199 --> 00:08:22.439 last but not least, which is you know, the most of interest 102 00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:26.040 and the biggest category, because half of the companies in the list are here, 103 00:08:26.079 --> 00:08:30.319 it's energy and power. There are a few that I know that are 104 00:08:30.439 --> 00:08:37.080 fantastic Acure, which is an API to access battery data to monitor that. 105 00:08:37.240 --> 00:08:43.080 We health block power. So here that's heating and cooling, retrofit services. 106 00:08:43.639 --> 00:08:48.279 We have geothermal, a lot of geothermal like eve Ore, Fervo, of 107 00:08:48.360 --> 00:08:54.840 course geotherrmal as well, and then stuff around hydrogen, new electric motors. 108 00:08:56.000 --> 00:09:01.039 I mean, the list go the Piklow the market for flo This is where 109 00:09:01.320 --> 00:09:05.679 thin take's happening. There's no doubt about it. Oh no, no, 110 00:09:05.679 --> 00:09:07.600 no, there's no doubt about it. Listen, I've got a lot of 111 00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:11.200 my former clients there like Oxford PV and stuff like that there as well. 112 00:09:11.240 --> 00:09:13.759 And do you know the thing that struck me wrong? And I look through 113 00:09:13.799 --> 00:09:16.440 this list, and let's be clear what this list is. These are non 114 00:09:16.519 --> 00:09:22.320 listed companies. These are privately fun to venture back businesses and that have not 115 00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:24.720 been bought by anyone, right, so they're independent. And I looked at 116 00:09:24.759 --> 00:09:28.039 it and I thought, what's amazing for me was I looked at the oldest 117 00:09:28.039 --> 00:09:31.200 company on the list. Do you know how old it is? Like ten 118 00:09:31.279 --> 00:09:35.559 years or something? Two thousand? Wow, the twenty three years old. 119 00:09:35.720 --> 00:09:39.799 And by the way, quite a few businesses that were twenty ten and before 120 00:09:39.840 --> 00:09:43.000 that. What struck me in all of it was sometimes it's just this sector 121 00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:48.440 is it's really difficult to get scaled because you've got a lot of my reflection 122 00:09:48.480 --> 00:09:52.840 on it, is you've got a lot of incumnance that are blocking. That's 123 00:09:52.879 --> 00:09:56.679 what they're doing. They're blocking these new technologies getting to market. And there's 124 00:09:56.679 --> 00:10:00.360 also regulatory hurdles to prevent these technologies. Get that. That was what struck 125 00:10:00.399 --> 00:10:03.159 me anyway, one of those things that struck me as I as I looked. 126 00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:05.639 I don't know what else struck you when you are looking through the list 127 00:10:05.639 --> 00:10:09.720 and reading shore the report. The thing I'm always looking into is what's the 128 00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:16.679 business model. If it's a SaaS model, your clients are everywhere like PVCSE, 129 00:10:16.799 --> 00:10:20.679 that's great. If it's a SaaS model and your clients are a few 130 00:10:20.799 --> 00:10:28.320 utilities, that's tougher. Oh yeah, Are you a supplier of the utilities 131 00:10:28.440 --> 00:10:33.080 or are you a competitor to the utilities, which also is very difficult, 132 00:10:33.639 --> 00:10:39.039 or are you just selling electrons or molecule in liquid market? And in that 133 00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:43.480 case, energy traders which facilitate the market, they don't serve the market. 134 00:10:43.519 --> 00:10:48.240 They are in the market make much more money than the people who want to 135 00:10:48.519 --> 00:10:54.600 sell services to utilities, which is a tough one. So here it's really 136 00:10:54.600 --> 00:10:58.360 not about the tech, it's how you position the tech and the revenu model 137 00:11:00.120 --> 00:11:03.720 the market. Actually, i'd like your comment there and software as a service, 138 00:11:03.720 --> 00:11:07.519 because the amount of businesses that I'm speaking to where I'm looking at them 139 00:11:07.080 --> 00:11:11.240 and I sort of said, why did you go down the software as a 140 00:11:11.279 --> 00:11:15.799 service business model, and the reason that went down was because of evaluation perspective. 141 00:11:15.879 --> 00:11:18.279 They thought, oh yeah, yeah yeah, but then they can't scale 142 00:11:18.159 --> 00:11:22.759 and they end up with like two million in revenues. And while they could 143 00:11:22.759 --> 00:11:26.200 have gone other business models, and you said, they're actually the example of 144 00:11:26.240 --> 00:11:30.919 your the trading area. There's a lot of software as a service businesses in 145 00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:35.679 that whole area of utilities and they just can't scale even though they're doing very 146 00:11:35.720 --> 00:11:41.679 important things within that value chain. Right yeah, gp SB, say it 147 00:11:41.720 --> 00:11:52.559 again, gp SB, GPSB, great product sty business. Okay, John, 148 00:11:52.679 --> 00:11:56.919 we're gonna leave it here all right, by Bred. Take care, 149 00:11:56.159 --> 00:12:01.399 Jeers. Thank you for listening to redefine Y. Don't forget to rate the 150 00:12:01.480 --> 00:12:09.279 show and subscribe on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or the platform of your choice.