This is the baseline, discussing the hot button topics of the nv A welcome
everybody here. Two to the baseline, cal Lee warren Shaw discussing the hot
button topics of the NDA, and we are fully crack in to the third
chapter of the NDA twenty two twenty twenty three NBA season. This is the
playoff time, man, and such an exciting time. The buzz, the
atmosphere, the hadge, truth that, the Lord, the glitz, the
glamour, all of that is in full display. All the hard work for
sixteen teams to give themselves an opportunity to participate and play for a championship.
It all comes down to these next coming weeks and it's just an exciting time
to be And while people are focusing on that, we're still focusing on bodying
up them teams that just felt a little bit short, didn't quite make it,
and we'll be at some point on our slab as we continue to narrow
on that field. Man, it's just an exciting time altogether. As always,
let me go and roll out the red carpet to my right hand man's
Www. Dot show Sports that Net, Big Hunapi and see my brother mister
Warren Shaw repping out of Fort Laida, Neale, Florida. What's good,
mister Shaw, big old smile in your face. I know this is the
best time of the year. It is the best time of the year,
my guy, and the worst time for my For my lovely wife, she
hates this. Games upon games upon games every day. Um, but she
knows that. She's very supportive. Yeah, you know, it's a wild
situation. But I gotta say, man, you know, the NBA continues
to deliver really and truly exciting to play in tournament. Obviously we're in the
actual playoffs now, um, great great stuff here, and we have as
a result of the playings tournament, a couple of teams jump in the line
and the autopsy report they are fresh, so we're right. Yeah, I
mean, listen for the for those fans for the teams that we are going
to be discussing for this week's autopsy report. I know the wounds still fresh,
like the blackout is still real. I understand, but it has to
be done, so fret not. You know it actually as as they as
as as what we as what they say in Gladiator, they died a good
death, right, so we will make sure that we properly honor the teams
that we will be discussing in this week's edition of The Autopsy Report. Um.
You know, I'm not gonna give any surprises to it. We're gonna
be talking about the Chicago Bulls in the Oklahoma City Thunder. And listen,
when I say good death, I say that to say, teams better pay
attention to what the Bulls and the Oklahoma City Thunder did this past season and
ultimately what they almost did in upending our interpretations of what the sixteen team layout
was gonna be for this this year's playoffs. So we're gonna have some really
good things to say. Um, and that's always a good thing when we're
talking about teams that get eliminated. So you know, Sew, I,
like you said, it can't be bad when some of these teams jump the
line. It's not because we just need to, like you know what I'm
saying, autop see him quick. It's we want to autop see them in
a good way because they're gonna be rising out of the dead real quick.
They're gonna beyond the undertake a ish real real quick. They can't wait for
the off season to begin technically for them now, but they can't wait for
them outias and the season to quickly turn turn itself around after draft and everything
like that, because some of these dudes, after the way that they came
out and performed, chopping at the bit for them to get back out there
again. Yes, sir Man, exciting, excite, exciting. So um,
I love talking about these teams and Chicago. We've had a lot of
conversation bought on our show over the course of the year, so we had
to kind of jump the line, as you alluded to get to get them
in here as well, because they were almost there. They were almost a
contender. They were right there, right yeah, right there. They were
just so close, all right. So we'll be talking about those two teams
in this week's edition. Before we do that, Shaw and you know,
we got obviously get into our plugs. I just wanted to get your interpretations
of you know, what the what the play in altogether really you know represented
for you. What were your initial thoughts about the buzz did the NBA Has
the NBA really been able to take advantage of the momentum of the implementation of
the play in tournament and exactly from you know what you gathered, the competition
that took place, you know, the way things kind of played itself out.
Any regrets, you know, anything left to be desired, anything left
on the table. When we talk about the NBA's attempt at elevating the viewership
during this time of the year, No, they've They've hit it out the
park. Pugnant the detractors, anybody who had anything negative to say about it,
I think is on board. Now we already know what it did to
the end of the season in terms of keeping teams competitive and more or less,
you know, fighting to the very end for whatever seeding and spot they
can potentially get into. Then the games themselves actually delivered. The only subpar
game I'd say was probably Atlanta and Miami, and then Miami being the seventh
seed coming into it, losing it, and now ultimately capturing the eighth seed.
That creates intrigue, I think for the playing tournament as we continue to
push it forward. But even all the games, with the exception of that
one, were competitive throughout. You know, Atlanta, miame in Atlanta,
and Miami made a little push, came back, Atlanta kind of shoting down,
But everything else was really really good basketball unfortunately for Okay, See though
that last game against Minnesota wasn't all that amazing, but them being even being
there with a chance to get into the play and I think was the excitement
we were all looking for as a young team that probably wasn't supposed to be
this far anyway. Yeah, and look, I know we're going to have
an opportunity to eventually have an autopsy report on the Atlanta Hawks, I think,
and I'm not saying that to say, oh, you know, this
team is not capable of making some kind of a run, But I think
what it highlighted to me show when I saw that game against you know,
the Hawks versus the Miami Heat, and then to see what they basically did
you know first you know, so far first round match against the Boston Celtics.
This is a team that has to ride on momentum and or the matchups
that they're going to be set up against. Right, Because if you told
me that the way that the Miami Heat, this team always plays up when
it absolutely needs to. In the Atlanta Hawks, it's just so inconsistent,
and we not this is just a one off thing. This has kind of
been the trend for them now for the last couple of years since the Cinderella
run, right, So like it's just really interesting to me. Shaw how
when we talked about how matchups you know what I'm saying is is gonna be
quintessential. I think you can really make that argument with how the East has
been set up and where teams have lined themselves up, specifically the really good
teams. You're saying they should take care of business, but you will see
moments where just because you know they're supposed to be the better team from a
matchup perspective, if the coaches know what they're doing, they can really make
a series of this. So it'll be interesting to see who handles their business
early. Don't let these teams that you know, obviously they got in,
it was nice they got in. Don't them hang around, because then they'll
start really making things very interesting, you know what I'm saying. And pushing
this to what would be maybe a five six game series at best, to
a possible seven. Yeah. Yeah. The only thing I'd say is,
obviously Atlanta Miami switched places from what I would have thought. Um, Minnesota
still got in. Uh, they probably even without Gobert, should have captured
the seventh seed, but lost that game in overtime against the Lakers, and
you know, pretty much what was a thriller. And they're they're still in.
So the teams that I thought we're going to get in still did the
order not quite exactly what I what I thought, you know actually actually as
as the season concluded, but again it was it was. It was great
basketball to watch and a lot a lot I think of interest throughout the NBA
atmosphere with those with those games that were played. Absolutely man, all right,
So as always, man, we appreciate everybody who continues to follow along,
from our veteran listeners to our new listeners. Um, we appreciate you
guys showing the love and support being able to use us as your listening platform
to get what you need geared up, geeked up, you know, for
the remainder of this NBA season and moving beyond, and as always we appreciate
you for that. As always, get up my man Shawshaw Sports, NBA,
Get at me a game face, leave the show's Twitter hand at NBA
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they make their runs to the NBA Finals. All right, with that being
said, let's get right into it. It's autopsy report style. Sean I
gonna get in the backthrow on our white coats. You know, kind of
we'll put what we'll put on our happy hats and we'll do a good death
discussing the Bulls and the Thunder. You don't want to miss out here on
the baseline. Time to break it. They're dead, My team, My
team is dead. They knew we were coming, man, they knew we
were coming. Time now for the breakdown. Kylie Warrenshaw the Basedline NBA podcast
and this is are coveted autopsy reports Shaw and I get to throw on the
white coats where you examined an exhuom bodies of those that were not able to
be the last man standing. And it's a great time of the year to
be Autopsy Shaw if you are either a Chicago Bulls or an Oklahoma City Thunder
fan, because these two teams Shaw throughout the course of the year, despite
injuries, you know, and really you can make an argument that for the
Oklahoma City Thunder, their season probably should have ended the moment that Chet Holmgren
went down to see the emergence of this team, battle tested, resilient and
yet give themselves an opportunity to possibly be one of the eight teams in the
Western Conference. It's just truly remarkable. I mean, hats off to this
team, and they showed resiliency through and throughout, and they also showed us
that this is a team not to be fed with at all. Like they've
got some talented cats and collectively together another year or two under their belts,
we could be talking about one of the most dangerous teams in the NBA without
question. And that doesn't even include knowing that they will eventually get back Chet
Holmgren. They've got picks for days, They've got assets galore. I mean,
it's a good time to be Sam Presty and Oklahoma City Thunder. Yeah,
their GM loves him. Josh Giddy, you know, made a little
quip on their exit more or less saying he wants to be a GM whenever
that time comes for him. But you know, in the meantime, he's
gonna learn from the best in the business in his opinion, and Presty and
Okay, see, as you alluded to without Chet Holmgren making a run and
almost getting into the playoffs is something that not many of us would have that
going into the year. I did say it was done for them. Their
tanking days had to stop, so I expected them to be more competitive and
try to win this year. I did not expect them to still be in
the playing game, right so I thought they were going to be firmly supplanted,
you know, um, you know, top five, top seven in
the lottery. But they they really really really showed something. And obviously all
that is a sesament. SGA, sage, say Gil just Alexander who had
an All NBA MVP type season this year, such such a remarkable talent,
and the pieces around that team right now give you nothing but hope and positive
vibes for what they're ultimately going to become. Offensively, defensively, coaching wise,
sidelines, general management. Okayse has their ish together. Bro. Absolutely,
let me say this shall because you had talked about sg You've been talking
about SGA for quite some time, UM, And I know that when I
spoke about SGA, it wasn't with UM. It wasn't with the proliferation of
of really you know, being excited about seeing him come out there and compete
and play basketball. I knew that he was a good competitor. I knew
that, you know, he could play a solid game. But I don't
I didn't see it where it was translating for me to say is he an
actual NBA superstar? Is he on the custom is he or is he just
going to be a really really good player posts up moderately good numbers, and
he has to be on a team that excites you for the idea that they
brought him in so that his numbers actually mean something. I'm gonna I'm gonna
dead all that at right now. I think SGA might actually be one of
the most perfect fits that the Oklahoma City Thunder has probably had in a very
very long time. And I will say, I'll and I'll say why Presty
really really really showed us he had an eye for the talent of being able
to put together such a well, young, founded, young team. It
just came at a bad time with the way things have trended and how the
NBA and the CBA agreements and the way players are looking at marketing themselves and
how things happened that part of this became, you know, really the dissension
of what we thought could be Oklahoma City's coming out party right with Westbrook,
Harden and Durant. When I think about this Oklahoma City Thunder team, you
want some guy who really plays within the margins. He's not going to be
too high where from a marketability standpoint, people are gonna say, oh,
this guy's eventually gonna walk right, He's not gonna be too low where people
can't be excited for seeing what he can do. And the other thing that
I love about what SGA brings to the table Shaw is he actually is a
leader right like I'm seeing And I don't know if maybe part of that is
being under the tutors of Chris Paul for that short period of time, but
I'm seeing the emergence of SGA showing that level of confidence that he can be
one of the best players in the game of basketball and he can only get
better at doing it. And I think the guys on his roster can feed
off of that. You know, it's not like you're playing with a bunch
of no namers and losers. All of them have upside potential to really collectively
together. Remind you a lot of what the Oklahoma City Thunder did when they
had Durrant, Westbrook and Harden. I know those are big shoes to fill.
All I'm saying is from a team perspective, you gotta feel good about
what you're seeing from the Oklahoma City thunder. Remember they have Luton Dorts,
right who A lot of people are sitting here still they don't know that guy
is a bulldog. He's that kind of guy that you wont on that roster.
Dirty work at the backcourt position, taking that pressure off SGA, taking
that pressure off of Giddy, letting those guys get and he's all but what
twenty five, twenty six years old? Shaw, So I'm loving the way
that this roster is rounding out a couple of years more and I mean literally,
we could really be talking about this team being one of the most dangerous
teams in the NBA. Yeah. I think one of the one of the
things that's scary about that is they still have all the draft capital that you
were touching on previous to this. Yeah, you know, I think four
picks this year, two first rounders, two second rounders, and I think
they have three first rounders next year. And they already gave a crop ton
of them to the Knicks to get to get Jane who they barely played this
year. Pokasski, who they have. You know, it was one of
the league leaders and blocks for the majority of the year before he started to
battle some injuries. Then obviously waiting for chet to come back. It's it's
nothing, but the needle is up. It is all the way up.
Let me throw something in there real quick to your to your points. I
honestly, from seeing what I saw this year, from from Giddy, from
not you know, SGA's Sga from Giddy, from Williams, from from the
rest of that crew, you can make the argument shot it even if chet
Home group comes back, because remember there was a lot of question marks of
whether or not he's gonna be built to play in the NBA. Chet Home
Grew may not even be the best player on that team, right, but
he can still be a quintessential piece to elevate this team from going to nineteenth
you know nineteenth defensively to maybe even higher right, And there were many games
that they left on the table where they just couldn't defend. They just didn't
get enough stops. There's no question that they can score that basketball, but
as far as getting key stops go, this could be where chet Holmgren's presence
coming in may actually help make a stamp, make a mark on how well
this team can actually be competitive and add a couple of those win totals that
they're not a playing type team come next season. Yeah, I don't want
to see them. To be honest with you, I think this is going
to be one of those teams that are poised to take the leap, the
leap that I expected the Pelicans to take this year. And obviously they had
injuries why they that obviously didn't quite happen for them. But while the Pelicans
were building off a lot of great vibes and then they were number one in
the West for for a period of time, the Zion went down and so
forth and so forth. That's almost a kind of expectations I'm putting on.
Okay, seem from jump now, even before we go into next year,
they'll get Chet back. They'll have again this plethora of draft picks, which
I'm sure there's no reason to hold on to them, both both Jaylen's,
Williams ones with the I ones with the E. Both of those guys can
hoop, Isaiah Joe, trey Man, those guys coming off the bench and
being able to score shoot the three of them, etc. Etc. You're
almost like, damn, do they what are they even going to do with
the picks? Who do they bring in? Because they have such great young
talent as currently constructed, and you kind of just want to build on that.
It's just like you almost you almost you almost have too much equity here
now, because what do you do that doesn't kind of already upset the youth
that you currently have in place. And I'm sure you know, Presty is
a smart guy. He'll figure out exactly what that needs to look like.
But you'd hate to see them sacrifice maybe some of that young talent to kind
of jump the line, if you will, in terms of getting another veteran
into this play to kind of play alongside Sha and Chet ultimately. But maybe
that's all they can actually do, because I just don't see the point in
bringing in, you know, two more first round draft picks this year,
especially after what you do with the Knicks in the summer last summer as well
too, and you saw that young man Jeg to develop as well. So
it's a it's an interesting predicament. I wouldn't say I wouldn't want to be
them, but they do have to make some hard decisions here when it comes
to the talent evaluation of the roster and how they want to build. Because
you're in such a great place right now, anything can kind of throw that
off, and I think they just gotta be really careful about the mix that
they bring in and it comes to the roster development, I wholehearted, wholeheartedly
agree agree with you where you're coming from on that point, Shaw, I
think, and you know how, I am right like we Over the last
month or so, I have been a stickler on this perception that by you
going out and giving up picks or you know, or even in this offseason,
the intent is you want to add veteran presence. Are you adding veteran
presence or are you adding someone who is so damn good that it's unavoidable to
not go after that guy? Right? If you look at some teams when
they do these type of things, they cut off the momentum that they've gotten
from that team's cohesiveness, that collectivity aspect of growing up and getting after it
together, rather than you know, bringing in a ringer, so to speak.
If I am presty, I am not messing with the cohesiveness that has
been built by your starting roster, Okay, I would really look to try
and bring a veteran guy who is completely fine with coming off of the bench,
are completely fine with establishing himself as making sure that that second unit is
up to snuff almost as good as that first unit, right, and listen,
injuries are going to be a problem. They always tend to. And
part of that issue is when you start leaning on the other guys that you
want coming up is the depth. There are those guys that are coming off
the bench ready to step up and step in, and part of that is
where it's such a fine line. But I think you know, Prestyn can
stretch it out a little bit, right, He can make a play to
get a veteran guy, but only if the intent is to help bolster their
bench. I think their bench play has some left, has a lot left
to be desired, so to speak. But clearly you can get an anchor
from a defensive perspective. Because I don't know whether or not chent Homegrin is
NBA ready right like he's a year behind that mark. I think if he
had the opportunity to be playing around Giddy and SGA and those guys, we
could see the maturation process and really tell whether or not he's ready to do
it. I can't buy into the idea if you're Sam Presty that you're just
gonna throw home Grin in there after seeing what your Oklahoma City Thunder team did,
I would like to think that you're gonna probably go somewhere front court and
bringing a guy in that was really gonna help shure up be a dependable person.
And if you start seeing that Homegrin is not able, you could plug
this guy in and he can basically come in as almost as like he's a
starter. That's kind of seat like where I'm trending on that idea. That's
where if there's going to be any roster changes being made, that's probably where
Presti is going to have to go. Yeah, I mean I can see
it. They ended up with Dariosarich from from Phoenix, and you know,
gave Phoenix Darius basally another young guy who maybe didn't quite ascending the way that
they were hoping to in terms of his development. Sorry, because a veteran
guy can shoot it from the three, but his contractor is up at nine
million. So if they were to keep one of those picks, maybe they
draft, you know, in a stretch for its or as you're alluding to
go and get some sort of an upgrade for that position, specifically to play
behind Alexei and then eventually chat and you know, and the other bigs,
the other Williams. You know, that's there as well too, just the
plothora of options. You know, they can add shooting, they can add
some more playmaking, you know, if they want to. Sha and Giddy
obviously do a really great job of that right now, commingling Isaiah, Joe
and guys like that to come off the bench and try to help. But
I think with what with Mark Dagana has done here, you know, on
the sidelines and Pressie up there in the front office, you just can't help
but feel positive. And they are poised to make any big splash they want
to, but they it has to be the right move, that's all I
will say. It just has to be the right move because this is a
nice young core of talent and you can try to really exacerbate and and and
make that make that jump quickly, but it can go very wrong, you
know, with the row addition, right you don't. I don't want this
guy to be the scapegoat for anything negative so to speak. But you don't
go in here because you have the draft equity so to speak, and bring
in a Kyrie Irving right, or or anybody like that. You know what
I mean. It's just you just have to be really careful about how you're
building. And I think s can be your guy. The pieces that compliment
him just need to be the right fit. I what's the best comparison that
we can make in the current NBA when we talk about what you do for
for for SGA to me reminds me a lot like Jalen Brunson, Right.
I really feel like if you give me another year of Sga and Josh Giddy,
they arguably can be one of the premier backcourt combinations in the NBA.
And I'm not I'm not speaking lightly about this because I really like how they
compliment each other. One guy has that ability to cut to the basket,
another guy has that ability to shoot the basketball, and both of them know
where to go, they know how to get to their spots. They feed
off of each other really well. I didn't have an opportunity to really watch
the Thunder play at the early outset of the season, but as we started
picking up momentum towards the possibility of Okay s and the play, and I
remember we had this conversation about you know, making our predictions about whether or
not OKAYC was going to make that play, and you were saying I would
love for them to make it, and I said, they have the opportunity
to finish this off. You know, they their schedule allowed them to.
But I think what I was starting to see from them was really getting me
excited about the possibilities that this could be SGA's coming out party. And you
remember I texted that to you when I saw what he what he did in
the Elimination game, right, So like one of the things that I'm just
speaking to is again going all the way back to my original point. Sga
is the kind of player he's he reminds. He reminds me very much like
how Andrew Wiggins has come in into The Fall. I don't know if it's
a it's a Canadian thing where it's very very subtle, mild mannered, but
their game is really stealthy and lethal, bro, And that's that's again you
cannot You don't want to mess with that, you know what I'm saying.
You don't want to look at what happened to a guy like Andrew Wiggins.
Look how long it took before he elevated himself into believing in what he can
contribute, what confidence he had to have in order to be a part of
something where his game translated to being something successful and not always questioned. And
I'm just saying that, like right now, Oklahoma City has the right combination
of players where a guy like SGA his game translate to those younger those younger
guys or guys of his elk his age, can actually go out there and
say we can we can run with these guys. We can run with these
boys. I don't need to be paired up next to a booker because that's
what it's gonna take to win an NBA championship. You give me a giddy
and we'll get there. Right. You just gotta have a little patience,
Just give us some games, and that's what I'm hoping is what we're gonna
see happen. Because I'm telling you, man, like it's really weird watching
how I was on I was not on SGA so much for what I was
hoping to see. From what I'm now seeing right now, it's it's again.
It's it's just a process. And sometimes you just got to work with
the process soil you start seeing glipses of it coming to fruition, And I'm
telling you, man, this is this team right here. Man, They're
gonna be really excited about what we're expecting to see in that Northwest Division.
I think if you are Denver Nuggets, the Minnesota Timberwolves, the Utah Jazz,
you have to really be looking at this, you know what I'm saying,
like, be very very mindful. You know what I'm saying, Maybe
those games that you've got those easy dubs from, they're not going to be
easy any easy anymore moving forward with the way that these guys have improved themselves
even over the last couple of weeks, let alone what they've shown us this
whole season. Yeah, so you're looking at a team, you know,
who was like thirteenth and fourteenth, I think offensive rating, defensive rating,
so really truly of the pack and have rhyme and room to climb into that
in those top tens and both of those things. Just with a little bit
more seasoning obviously getting chet back and help them tremendously. You know, as
I'm you know, as we're thinking about it, if I'm them, probably
the splashiest move, maybe maybe you make a play for like a Kyle Kuzma
or somebody like that, you know, to compliment at the four. I
don't think you need to go Dame or you know, one of those large
or larger names to kind of player alongside there. Um, I think it's
a high quality guy. Maybe someone's still in their mid to late twenties,
if you will, that can give you some that Or go to Detroit if
you have to pick. And this sounds it's gonna sound foolish because you're like,
you don't just give away trafficks, but the thunder really could you could
throw a first and a second to Detroit and get Bogdanovich and just really just
competent guys who can really compliment the rest of your of your roster. So
to me pressing again, it just has so many options on the table here.
I can't wait to see what they do. And I know they say
that about a lot of teams, but truly truly excited about the possibilities here
because I think roster constructions are going to be key to how they matriculate and
build all to the success they had this past season. Well, so I
like where you were going with that. I don't want to nitpick on on
what you were thinking as far as what it would probably take to get a
Bogdanovich, I don't know if i'd want Bogdanovich on this team. There's two
things that I really would like to see this team get a little bit better
at that. Even if let's say, for example, you do go out
and you get yourself a four, maybe another you know, a comparable five,
you know, with sometimes I think this team can get better with their
athleticism. This team ranked twenty first as far as defensive rebounding goes. They
ranked twenty first an assist. I'm not so much worried about the assist because
that, to me is just more of the maturation and togetherness that SGA and
Giddy can continue to build. But the fact that they are not a really
good rebounding basketball team as far as defensive rebounding meaning they don't give themselves enough
opportunities, especially when they're down games and their offense is just not clicking,
and then they don't shoot a really good field goal percentage, right, So
part of it is they have to have a front court presence with consistency of
scoring when they're not shooting the basketball. Greater the mid range game is just
not up to par. So I would like to see them go after people
with a little bit more athleticism, probably a little bit more savvy, to
be able to give them more chances for them to be as even more prolific
in their scoring as they already are. Because to me, I'm saying like
this their fifth best. But Shaw, what I'm saying is is that what
I like to see from this team is when they run into those situations where
what they're trying to execute with Dugan All is trying to execute for them is
not happening. They can always lean on good old fashioned get down, you
know what I'm saying, into trenches, score to basketball right to get an
an one, you know what I'm saying, the easy way, that type
of thing. That's what I wanted to see. I noticed that more than
anything else. And chet Holmegren coming in is gonna help them on the defensive
side. Not great from blocks, They're gonna get better with that, But
I would like to see them get a little bit better and a little bit
more athletic on the front court side. Yeah, I mean I think I
can. I can compliment that with one final statement. You know, maybe
even some some girth because you know Chet and even Alexei those are those skinny
do a little light a little light and uh so maybe they could use a
little bit more physicality, you know on the block specifically. Um, I
know Williams is he can He's not quite as tall, but does have a
little bit of that from the physical standpoint. Um, but you know,
we know we're not going back to back to the basket days and posting up,
but even just like the physical presence of like a lob threats and things
like that too, maybe they could add somebody in that and that ILK.
But again, you know we're again we're nitpicking here. Um, let's see
what Presty and company end up ultimately doing, because the Thunder team is really
really on their way to becoming really successful. All right, So any any
final words, any any any uh words of encouragement during this sad time for
our Oklahoma City Thunder fan. I mean no, it's I think we've been
We said it right and it's all it's all positive. Right, Yeah,
you know, thirty year giddy coming into this situation. Uh sga will will
be an All NBA player by the time all said and done here well,
confidencies to come in and you have the reserve coming in the troops if you
will, and Chad Holmegren Uh Williams as well too, like just those guys
they played, you know, I mean it's this is a really really great
story I think for the NBA. I'm in a city that I didn't know
if it was going to be able to bounce back, you know, after
the Durant and Harden and Westbrook stuff so to speak. Yeah, they had
Chris Paul there for a year and that really helped them. You know.
I think Bridge the gap Um a couple of lean years here too, but
Sgaum has really really given them something to be excited about. And the addition
of Giddy two seemed to be the right move. So I have nothing but
positive things for Okay see in the years to come. Well listen for our
okay see thunder fans um listen. This is a great time. You know,
nothing to hang your hat over. This is a team that basically was
one win away from being among the Great sixteen, right the Sweet sixteen of
the NBA. And no one saw this coming, especially after the pain that
you guys endured and losing your number one pick in chet home Grin, So
you know, sunny days, it's definitely ahead of you. When you got
SGA in your corner playing at this kind of level and the rest of that
group rounded out. Man, it's it's nothing but good things. But listen,
that doesn't mean that your NBA season is over with, right, No.
I mean there's so much more basketball for you to watch. I mean,
you guys are ultimately going to be scouting what the Oklahoma City Thunder is
going to have to be doing for next year. So why not fully immerse
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your neck out and win. Coming up, we're gonna talk about that other
team that unfortunately did not make themselves available for the rest of the Eastern Conference
eight. That's the Chicago Bulls. I mean, what more can we say,
though this team made an impressive run in an improbable situation. You'll find
out how we autopsy him. Here on the Baseline. We are back Callie
Warrenshaw Baseline NBA Podcast as we continue the autopsy reports and the next team that
we're putting on the slab, the Chicago Bulls. This is the team Shaw
that it's hard to say. When you look at the roster, you say
to yourself, man, this team should probably be a top six team,
no question in the Eastern Conference, but injuries obviously have plagued them, and
it's hard to say. I can clearly I think, and we've talked about
this team a little bit during the course of the year, Shaw, there's
something not about this team that's completely connected. There's something that seems to be
disjointing. You know, like when you have like a toy or a device
and you can clearly hear or see that it's just not operating the way that
you used to. You try to make it sound like, oh, you
know, it's just old or whatever the case, but you truly believe that
there's something just not quite right about that that device, and you just don't
know how you want to go about tweet, you know, tweet fixing it?
Right you should you fix it, you bring it to someone to fix
it, or whatever the case may be. Or maybe you just don't want
the truth that it needs to be fixed or it needs to you know,
you just basically need to trash it and get you another one, right like,
or just completely go in a different direction. And I feel like that's
where we are with the Chicago Bulls, a forty and forty two record,
Shaw, you would say to yourself, Oh, you know, given the
circle stances and what it took to be the tenth best team and even to
give yourself a chance in the play in, but you still look at this
team and you say, do they do they really represent being a forty and
forty two team? Well, I don't want to just beat the dead horse
here. I thought Chicago should have you know, gone and got a while
ago. To me, the riding was on the wall. And then they
despite themselves, continue to kind of scuffle and fight, and they add Pat
Beverley. Then they have one of the top five top ten defenses, you
know, post all Star. You know, as they lead into the playing
game, Uh, they look like they're all but dead in the water in
the playing game against Toronto. Then Zach Lavine takes over the Marja Rosen's daughters,
starts screaming, and you know, the Bulls come back, you know,
and capture, you know, the first win to get to the to
the playing game against the Miami Heat. Winning that sound like down, sound
like something you want to script for an NBA season, but winning the game
versus the Heat. Then ultimately collapse score like one point in the final four
minutes, four and a half minutes of the game, and lose to the
to the Heat, and you know, Jimmy Butler and those guys, and
then you see really kind of the Juglan hide of Chicago Bulls all along.
This is a team that can only be so good. They can be here
you know my phrase here, It could be very much the same battime,
same bat channel again next year without significant changes, and I don't think that's
where they wont where they want to be. Drosan and Levine are two really
really good basketball players. I think they fit okay. The pieces around them
I think are still to be desired. And obviously with Lonzo being out and
not quite sure when his return will be, they have a very big decision
to make on Vussovic, I think as well. And while you know,
I think Arsnovas came out and said that they do want to bring him back.
Is this the right move? Do you just retread this whole situation just
to kind of be back in the same place. And Pat Beverleys is not
going to get you a now they're ten to twelve wins, you know,
to put you into, you know, firmly into the playoff conversation as a
four or five seed. That's just that's not what's going to happen. So
to me, they need to take our harder look at what this looks like.
Levine and de Rosen are owed a lot of money, a Lonzo's owed
a lot of money, and it hasn't really be able to be on the
floor as we know, and now they got to figure out they want to
pay Vuosovich as well. I think we're in sort for some pretty big changes
here, and I don't think Donovan has or anything to worry about, but
ultimately the roster does need to change in some capacity, and it could come
at something at the expense of Voussovic and or Levine and or de Rosen.
I'm gonna say this. I hope I'm not sounding disrespectful. This is the
most top heavy basketball team I think in the NBA. When I say that,
I mean Demarda Rosen and Zach Levine make up a very big portion of
the team's ability to compete, so to speak, and everyone else kind of
has to follow suit. You know, how you have, like a really
good team, Shaw, if you take one or two guys out, the
rest of the guys can still function. They may not be able to beat
the best teams because the reason why they probably in best is because their team
is so well rounded, so well coached, and their basketball, like He
allows them, affords them the ability to kind of be that way. When
you look at this basketball team, Shaw, there are a lot of guys
that I feel like they are coming they're They're not coming in with the same
level of dedication and attention to detail that is helpful for what the team needs
to succeed as it would be from what you're seeing from other teams. I
think part of that is in the manifestation for what happened to Zach Levine and
listen him scoring twenty five points per game. I applaud him. I think
it's great, but he's just scoring twenty five points for the wrong team.
I don't think he's completely brought in to this idea that he wants to be
a Chicago Bull. There's some guys that you know when they play on a
team, it's like they wear that shirt, that jersey with pride that they
understand the history. Derek Rose is one of those guys. I think it
hurt Derek Rose to the core that he wasn't able to lift people out of
the shadows. It's not his fault to lift people out of the shadows of
what happened during the Michael Jordan ever Bose fans were spoiled and we're not realistic
about how long it's going to take to find some way to replace that,
and they never gave him a fair chance. Also, the injuries played a
role in that you can make the same argument for something like Zach Levine.
Now I'm not comparing Zach Levine to Derek Rose. What I'm comparing is the
lineage of what's taken place. Zach Levine has had injuries that I think is
stymied his ability to be the guy that I think he wants to be.
And maybe he thought he could be that guy in Chicago, and then prior
to Paxton and I forget who the other GM was before the new one came
in, moves are being made that made it seem like we can't rely on
you being that guy because you're never around to do it. And then when
contract time comes, you can clearly tell that he would have probably wanted to
go elsewhere if he could have gotten the bag, but realize that his bag
is better suited here in Chicago, and you cannot operate in that kind of
space if you're Billy Donovan, if you're Chicago Bulls. That might seem nice
and well intended, but to your point, Shaw, this team it felt
like they were forced to stay together rather than recognizing that they needed to be
a part. And I think this was a manifestation of that in seeing how
inconsistent this team has played throughout the course of the year. And you could
put the blame on a head coach if you want on you know, on
certain place, it's not it's collectively that just everybody was not on the same
page about how to move this thing forward. And give yourself a chance to
say we deserve to be competing with the rest of these other teams who clearly
understood the writing on the wall right, like the seventy six Ers, the
Miami Heat. All of them have got issues, but all of them have
played together long enough to recognize when they have to kind of dial down their
personal shit and get there, get the team ship right so that they can
go out and make that legit run where necessary. And it's just weird how
a team could not figure that out on a consistent enough basis to not allow
themselves to get knocked out when they had an opportunity to knock them to knock
themselves back in when they had it. Yeah to me, to me,
it's still it all stems down to their inability to get everybody on the same
page and keep everybody healthy. Alonzo maybe fixes a good majority of this from
play creation of failtation standpoint that they seem to be lacking. And you have
DeRozan who can do it and did do it in San Antonio for a while.
But now you're left with Crusoe and de Sumo and um forgetting mine a
man's name here now Usa Cruzo Williams, Patrick Williams well too, coming off
you know, in that four man situation, a lot of guys who just
are not natural play creators, right, and Vosovich who can pass from the
from the post a little bit too. Uh. You have Kobe White who
we didn't even discuss, and he's he's going to be up his his contract
is up in another kind of combo guard. So they're just really kind of
grasping, I think at Straws here trying to figure out where do they get
play creation from. Yes, there are a good defensive team, um there.
I think they even finished in the top top five. I think as
as a year concluded. Um, but is the feel good story of Beverly
and what you did getting Voussovich the first year that we acquired in from Orlando,
then bringing in Jo rosen Quiet after that, and the success they had
last year enough to kind of keep this together at the cost that it's going
to that it's going to take to keep this roster together. And to me
that question is is a no um and whether you want to continue to have
the good vibes, which I know the g him came out and said that
he kind of thought, hey, they were trending in the right direction.
Maybe they know something and see something better than than we can right now,
and if Lonzo comes back, is the elixir that puts his team back into
the into the conversation to be in the middle of the Pacerties on conference.
But I think that's a tall ask for somebody who's been out for two years
and not quite sure if, if, and when he's going to be back
all together. And then you know, Kobe Wye and Ussovic, do you
pay those guys what they're going to command salary wise, and then that's your
team, you know, And I just don't know if that's championship level,
and I think they need to take a hard look at that, unfortunately,
and it may cause for some breakups. Share of the Bulls one of the
things that I that I wanted to emphasize and and you know, it's interesting
shot because you said, like on the latter part of the season, they
really stepped up and became one of the best defensive teams in the NBA.
I'm gonna I'm gonna kind of I'm a poke holes at that in a little
bit. Yes, collectively, they were a really good defensive team, but
they were not good when it came to the three. They didn't shoot the
three right. They were one of the worst teams. And more importantly,
they didn't defend. They didn't defend, they didn't defend the three. Well,
okay, So one of the things that I often say is, you
know you can get away with doing that if like you're playing, say in
a division or in a conference where maybe collectively like a lot of the teams
that you play against are not that great, and it just help happens that
you know this team maybe had your number, they just you know that this
was their night. They're just hitting threes. And you could even watch in
the games in which you know they were trailing suffering a lot of those key
runs, three point shots being made. Runs started can't be stopped, right,
just you can't have that right And and I say that because it's not
gonna stop now. I'll put part of that on Billy Donovan in the sense
that I'm sure he has to be aware of this going into next year,
because you can't tell me that you can continue to play that kind of way
where you're good to defend everything else except the arc. Like you're playing against
the Boston Celtics, you're playing against the Philadelphia seventy six ers, you're playing
against the Indiana Pacers, you're playing against the Milwaukee Bucks. I haven't even
those are four teams already, shaw, I haven't even named the rest of
them where I know we'll shoot the three ball at a much higher rate than
I think the Chicago Bulls are even imagining how to defend. For if,
even if your intent is is that you're still trying to figure things out,
you have got to be able to defend against the three. That's that's just
what it is, man. That's just the NBA. That's how it plays.
You cannot be the worst team defending the three ball and then be the
worst team shooting the three ball, right like, So something's got to give
there. But I can definitely tell you when people say, oh, you
know, this is a really good defensive team, I will challenge you in
saying, yes, there were probably probably good defensively as far as their ability
to play down and in their guards switching, probably being able to play up
against the bigger guards who don't like to shoot. But eventually they were not
great defending guys who needed to shoot the basketball right like, as good as
Carusoe is Inhaled Patrick Beverley, as good as he is inhaled. You cannot
be the worst team defending the three. That's that's just a no no,
especially when those are what creates the kind of runs that take place in order
to give you to mitigate your opportunities or chances for what you work so hard
for offensively is to be able to give yourself that chance in the fourth quarter.
Can't do it? Yeah, I mean I thinks are good points.
So you know, twenty nine and three points made against them, so they
averaged, they gave up thirteen point thirteen point one threes were hit on them
on on a nine to night basis, while only making ten threes, you
know, good for last on their side of it too, So they've lost
that differential like who definitely you know by down nine just in the three point
argument conversation on the night to night basis, And that is not something that
you can have in today's in today's game in any capacity. And while you
know, have to kind of look at the honor off numbers and more maybe
even more sort towards the tail end, how beverly may may have impacted that
to some degree. I think ultimately your point is definitely made here with Chicago.
So what do they do now with that, because even the guys who
they want to retain are not defensive stalwarts. I'm definitely not helping them on
that side of the basketball when it comes to defending the three. In Vussovitch
and White, those are the two biggest names that they have to kind of
contend with and figure out what they ultimately want to do. Do they bring
back Andre Drummond or do they just try to buy him out and get them
off the books in some capacity. Javonte greens Sumo is also a free agent
going into this year. Beverly obviously was picked up up the scrap heap.
So what do they do there? To me, there's a lot more questions
that they don't necessarily want to have the answers to. I think they'd be
happy if some of these guys just kind of went away quietly into the night
and allow them an opportunity to try to maybe refreshing some capacity. But to
me, Levine's contract is very very heavy. You know, at forty plus
a million dollars, there's a lot of people out there who don't believe in
them and still think of them as, you know, just as volume scorer
who doesn't really bring anything else to the game. I happen to like Levine
and think he's a very good basketball player, but I can understand the argument,
especially at the price tag and how much of the cat that ultimately eats
up for you too. But he's also younger than DeRozan, so to me,
they may need to come up to a decision and what they do with
one or both of those guys while also then again operating with hey Vosovic probably
needs to go and kind of doing some little a mid build, But I
know it's not the most It's not the easiest thing to do in the NBA,
especially today, But I don't think they're tearing it down to the studs
in any capacity, and nor they need to, because Donovan is also a
pretty good coach. As long as he can continue to rely on some of
their defensive principles, whether some of it is fool's gold or not, they
are there, and I think the right angles on the wall for them to
make some changes that can get them in a better position to be competitive.
They're they're not NBA championship level ready in any capacity or going to be soon,
but they can definitely get to where they can secure a playoff spot and
I'll consistently be in the play in if they make them make the right moves.
Absolutely, So there's two things I want to highlight into your point Shaw
before we just go ahead. Well, you eulogize them, you bring up
some excellent points. But I think part of the reason why this combination right
is not going to work. And I think you've got enough of a sample
size in order for you to be able to say, you know, if
you are the bulls exacts, you have to make a move, right.
Dmarda Rosen Zach Levine collectively will attempt twelve and a half free throws per game.
You're two top scorers who average close to twenty five points a game.
Of that, they're only on the free throw line twelve times. Right,
You're big Vosovic only gets to the free throw line maybe twice, right,
right, Like, So some they're making this too hard for themselves. Right,
they don't you have In other words, they're relying so heavily on their
perimeter shooting. They have to shoot such a high percentage because they're not getting
to the basket. They're not taking advantage of getting you know, and ones,
right, because they're bailing them out by by shooting the basketball too much.
So if you're not going to make it at a high percentage, and
I'm not saying that, you know, look, Zach shot forty eight percent.
I'm not saying that, Like you look at that percentage and say no,
no, no, he's not making his shots. What I'm saying is
is that a lot of his shot making is one where it doesn't give him
an opportunity for him to get to the free throw line enough, right,
same thing with Derosan. That's the only like that you can say that is
the only quote unquote weakness to the type of game he plays because he is
so mid range friendly that in most cases, if that shot is not hitting
on a night and nine, he does not actively go to the basket.
Yet he's still the best person to get to the basket on that team because
he averages seven free throws a night. Essentially, you know what I'm saying.
But as a team collectively show they don't get to the free throw line.
So again, they're making this so difficult for themselves. Part of it
could be the way that the guys play. Part of it could be,
you know, the system that they're playing in a lot of it just really
comes down to who they are and what their game manifests, you know,
and you can't have two guys basically get to the free throw line and everyone
else don't like at some point you have to have you got to show some
type of aggression to your game. And that's what is sorely lacking for the
Chicago Bulls team, which is hard pressed to think because again they're among one
of the better defensive teams. Said to me, there's there's a little bit
of attitude, there's a little bit of physicality that I think that they bring
to the table. I just don't know how it doesn't translate to the offensive
side of the ball, where they're giving themselves addition, you know, in
three points by basically getting to the free throw line. Yeah, well,
part of it is just the volume at which both of those guys operate,
So there's not a whole lot of touches for anybody else and opportunities for people
to get to the line, especially with Vussovic not being a true back to
the basket type guy who's looking for falls fouls. He's you know, often
oftentimes at the at the pinch post, oftentimes at the three point line.
You know, does a couple of dhos here and there, and you might
see him post up every now and then, but not initiating a lot of
contact. And to the point we were making earlier, without a true table
center to even put you, put you in the right position, get you
in motion where you may have the opportunity to even be fouled. You know,
that's where I think you're gonna You're gonna see them really struggle with that
that aspect of the game, you know a lot, because it is a
lot of your turn by turn with the roads and the levine, especially when
one of them goes out, then the other ones like, all right,
whatever, I'm just scooping and trying to make it and make it, make
it, do what I do for myself. And I think those are things
they ultimately need to work. But even if you even if you have um
Lonzo ball, even Lonzo ball. So I don't think he gets to the
free throw line enough. Now, maybe that'll change, you know, maybe
part of that, But I don't think it's about him getting into line.
I think it's about the way he creates for others and getting them to the
line and putting in the position. So it's not just to Rose and Iso
midrange Levine Iso, you know, doing whatever he does. I agree with
you. But remember Lonzo Ball does not shoot the basketball well, right,
So part of it as well too is again, if you're someone who's gonna
have the ball in hand and you know other guys are gonna want to shoot,
that still means that someone has to aggressively get to the basket. Somebody
has to be going towards the basket and create at least the idea that a
team has to be physical with you down there and possibly foul you. I'm
not saying you've got to get fouled every single time just because you're driving.
What I'm saying is is just the way that they seem to play the game
show that their style of basketball doesn't lend themselves the opportunities for them to get
those free points. And so you have to depend so heavily on your perimeter
game, you're shooting game. And again, this team, while they have
a couple of guys that do shoot the basketball relatively well, they don't shoot
it well enough and consistently enough. And also they're not great at rebounding offensively
to give themselves additional opportunities if they're not landing that night, right, So
you know, again those things, it's just kind of it just it kind
of adds itself up. And but you brought up an excellent point though,
to the fact that both of their top scorers are ball dominant players. The
ball is in their hands so much, and I think they may have to
develop something differently. If you're still going to roll out these two, these
two guys and ball again next year with this idea that they're going to be
even better because of it, I don't see how that's gonna play with how
all of these things kind of like matriculate down the line as far as what's
affecting them offensively. Yeah, So I mean, if you can't change the
roster and personnel, then do you change and institute a different type of offense?
And those are things I think Donovan and Kristofus will ultimately figure out.
Like that is uh, that's the that's the card they're dealt And we've seen
stranger things happen. Um, So if they decide to be up and bring
Kobe Wye and Vossovitch back and just keep what it is currently and hope Lonzo
comes back at some point or what do they do from an offensive standpoint and
re reimagine it where it's not just Levine and Droz and basically taking turns with
the basketball and going isolation and whatever that whatever capacity that is, and that
that I think is can be Donovan's homework for the off season for him to
get better. Um, with the roster that may not have the opportunity to
get better. You know when it when it comes to the personnel, where
do you think the draft capital lies with the Chicago Bulls? Do you think
that you know, you basically take this roster, you move a couple of
guys out and hope that maybe, um, there is that possibility of drafting
someone you know that can come in and and and instantly sure up some of
the things that they obviously are lacking, you know. I mean, if
I'm reading it correctly, I think they have their own pick, but it's
a pimp I think with Portland, so um, you know they'll get the
lesser of those two. Um, I would I would imagine um, this
year and then you know that they can figure out they don't have to pick
the next year, and then they have another first rounder in twenty twenty six.
Um, it's it's it's gonna be it's gonna be tight. And talent
evaluation at the draft level is is always. Um, it's always a hard,
it's a hard it's a hard push, you know, you like,
some people do it really well and then some people really struggle at it.
I don't know if we have enough of a track record here now um with
the Bulls GM to understand exactly where he lands on that. On that side
of it, he came from Denver, so Denver has had a decentness track
record in drafting guys, but also giving up guys and giving up on guys
too early as well. Um. So uh, where a Carcinova's lands and
all of that will will ultimately see. But the option is definitely out there
as long as you have a pick that maybe you can make something happen.
But I think they'll probably be better served and trying to figure it out from
some sort of a trade or sign and trade with maybe some of their existing
talent. All right, Well, shall listen, man, this is has
been an awesome show. Um again, and you know listen if you're Chicago
Bulls, I know you know we said you know, it sounded like we're
bashing them. It's not. I think that if the right moves can be
made, you can salvage what you've been getting from the Chicago Bulls the last
couple of seasons. But I you know, to what Sean Ivas saying is
is that the way that this roster is currently constructed, you're going to run
into some issues. And I think it's going to rear its ugly head come
next season because the way that other teams have improved in the Eastern Conference,
some of the things that the Bulls are lacking, they're just not going to
be able to mask and get away with unless you know, the guys that
they have are fully healthy and are going to step up and really kind of
you know, take strides in in in and again improving those deficiencies that kind
of reared its ugly head and preventing them from continuing forward in this in this
year's playoffs. So it'll be interesting to see shaw. But you know,
again, the Bulls in the Thunder, it provided exciting basketball down that stretch,
exciting basketball into play in situation, and again, you know they're gonna
be a force. I just want to see them not be maligned or sidelined
again with certain things that I think can be controllable on their end, and
they make the right move so that this is sustainable, because I think the
NBA again is better when these teams are competitive and are pushing the needle,
you know, pushing these other teams to step their game up as well too.
Two teams very different situations. One we're we're excited about, one we're
a little bit bullish on, and we'll see where where it lands over the
course of the offseason. But two very competent coaches I think on both those
sidelines, and I think they'll figure out what ultimately makes sense for the roster.
We'll get the best version of themselves. But how what that means to
each one of those teams will be I think, very, very vastly different
going into next season. Absolutely, as always, we appreciate you and yours
for hopping on our board with us once again. You know what I'm saying.
For our listeners out there who are wanting to get up on the best
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I'm sure that y'all want to take your social media self fees and get
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and get yourself some great discounts of supporting your favorite team. For the
baseline, Callie warren Shaw. We appreciate you guys, each and every single
one of you, and we'll catch up with you next time.