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Third round, the podcast with Alejandro
Gaviria and Ricardo Silva Romero. A podcast

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of the locutorio shoots the locutorio,
therefore, wishes a preview not so much

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of histopia, but of the need
to resort to fiction. Fiction, as

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we have said before, is not
without a lie, but a way of

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articulating recreating, representing to be understandable
reality, making it emotionally understandable even and

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the statues of the south, manages
to water the eyes, remove the stomach,

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because it is told with a lot
of heart, also with great precision.

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Well, Alejandro, I' m
usually not the one who starts our

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conversations, but today I start,
because right now you' re on a

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trip and I wanted to answer the
surprise with another surprise. I mean to

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the surprise that you talked to me
about autogol and PDWS. In a previous

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chapter with the surprise of telling you
the disdain of the Gods, the omens

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of an apocalyptic world that you just
published and that seems like a pound to

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me and I don' t want
you to go through that publication for the

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third right turn. Well, I
say that I never start the conversations and

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that this time I do, but
really the one who started it was you

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and I continue it because it happens
to me with the people I love and

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I admire that all the time I' m thinking why everyone doesn' t

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agree with me, because everyone doesn' t realize that the Destination of the

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Gods is a great book. Of
course, a lot of people are reading

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it and a lot of people are
following your books. I know, but

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I want more people to notice them. It seems gula, or it seems

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to be asking too much of the
world, but I want these bestsellers to

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get even more readers. I'
ve been thinking a lot about one of

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the first chapters we recorded in the
house of Alex Pinilla, our effe and

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our great friend, which was the
chapter on what survives, what personality or

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what your occasion has survived all your
lives, the academic life, the life

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in government, the political life,
and I think the conclusion two years ago

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was the vocation to writing. I
think you' re a writer. I

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think that' s the port of
your function in the world, of your

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passage through the world, and I
think the disdain of the gods is a

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wonderful confirmation of that. We came
from two great books. I loved the

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controlled explosion and I loved it I
don' t expect to make that trip

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The controlled explosion over your passage through
Petro' s government. It seems to

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me that this book has been widely
recognized. It' s one of the

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best- selling books in recent years, and that' s verifiable. I

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am not clouded by affection or admiration. It is one of the ns books

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sold in recent years and I think
it has not been recognized enough as an

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intellectual exercise of a very refreshing height. I mean, there' s no

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grudges there, no rags in the
sun, no rags there, no lows

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there. I know that one,
as an official, learns many things.

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He' s on a scene that
has surprises and news that could shock,

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but none of that is used.
It' s just vindicated there. The

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political debate, the intellectual debate,
the pulse between ideas and possible ideas,

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the pulse between the left and liberalism, the nostalgia for a pact between the

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left and liberalism, the question of
whether it is possible to impose a utopia

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and whether imposing a utopia is not
the same as scorning and dismantling democracy.

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There is the question of how possible
a direct democracy is and whether a direct

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democracy is synonymous with tyranny. It
seems to me, therefore, a wonderful

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intellectual exercise, controlled expasion. But
also and we talked about it when when

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it appeared, it seems to me
that I do not expect to make that

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trip is, therefore, a portrait
of these times, a recreation of what

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you have been calling. Times of
madness, moments in which humanity loses its

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roles lose its head and is massacred
and that have a stringed voices that resist

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and denounce and that leave record that
the human is violence, but it is

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also coexistence, it is also humor, it is also love, it is

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also beauty. That tour is Vike
rounding Colombia, but never coming, I

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found it very relevant and very pertinent. I think I' m saying that

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my starting point is affection in admiration, but I' m also saying that

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those books are very good books and
that they are part of, in addition

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to a really very consistent work.
That play has now needed fiction. The

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disdain of the gods is a shift
from reality to fiction is composed of several

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tales. It seemed to me that
his language was precise, that he found

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his own kind of beauty and never
twisted it, never exaggerated it, that

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it always returned to humor, a
humor that saves any matter and that,

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by the way, was a portrait
of the dystopia that we are already living.

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It is a common place to recognize
that dystopian stories are really denouncing what

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we are living today. But it' s a genre I think we should

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keep trying and I think you'
ve done it in a very lucid way.

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I think it' s impressive.
That' s why I mentioned the

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controlled explosion and I don' t
expect to make that trip. Impressive is

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the consistency with previous books and with
that idea that we are living in a

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delusional time. There is a very
pertinent introduction there is an epigraph about the

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vocation to defeat, but also a
very pertinent introduction that puts us flat in

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the sensation, very touching for me
that I dedicate myself to fiction since I

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dedicate myself to something that sooner or
later. It is that language, that

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of fiction, that toolbox of fiction, that best serves to say what one

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thinks the disdain of the gods belongs
if one wants to put it in some

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shelf of the bookstores, to the
books that examine dystopia, but also to

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the fiction books that have a foot
in the essay. Fiction essays could also

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be called Candide of Voltaire, for
example, or the alienist of Machado of

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Assisi. We have said a sum
of stories that begin with the statues of

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the South. I think it'
s a very good start, because it

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' s getting into fiction the statues
of the South. It' s an

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autobiographical, clearly autobiographical account. You
don' t have to be around or

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record third lap every week together to
figure it out. It' s a

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story I make in my eyes.
You can tell it' s all true.

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It got me thinking about my dad
and it' s not yet a

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dystopian story, but it does talk
about a future where the dead are.

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I felt maybe because once written about
it, it is already beginning to imagine

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new dimensions. And I really liked
that because it' s a preview not

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so much of histopia, but of
the need to resort to fiction. Fiction,

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as we have said before, is
not without a lie, but a

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way of articulating recreating, representing to
be understandable reality, making it emotionally understandable

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even and the statues of the south, manages to water the eyes, remove

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the stomach, because it is told
with a lot of heart, also with

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great precision. Then follows the garden
of delights, which is a call that

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we have sometimes talked about retreating into
the world itself and recognizing that the outside

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world has passed us by. I
always think of Colonel Blin from the Powell

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and Press Burger movie, which for
me is the closest example. But I

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could not be clear to go such
a quijote to see someone clinging to their

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time and unable to see that times
have changed. I could, of course,

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talk about each story and make a
very timely review. But I'

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m going to talk about some,
especially with that idea, in mind with

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the idea of how you' ve
found the fiction you' ve had to

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do with for a long time.
You' re a great novel reader.

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You' ve tried fictions many times, but now you' ve found the

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best way to say what you'
ve been saying about the delusional era,

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about fanaticism, about violence, about
the crazy people who manage to convince other

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crazy people, which is a mark
of the times. I really like immortals.

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One of the tales that is originally
given at the beginning of the book

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and is now one of the last. I think the book was very well

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edited. The design is really beautiful
the work of the team of Penwing Random

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House, which are, therefore,
from our house. I think it'

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s a flawless job that was done
here and I think it was a good

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decision to put them immortal in the
end, because it' s really one

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of the funniest stories. And like
with the rock albums, the music albums,

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I think the balance of the stories, the place where they are in

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this book. In addition, one
has the feeling that there is a side,

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there is a side b as in
acetate discs, because where each story

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is is very important. The sum. The order of factors alters the product

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in this case and I think the
immortals grab you at the best moment makes

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you laugh it brings you anguish,
clear and sadness, but it is really

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very funny what happens in the end
is very funny and very human. Although

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I anticipate the story happens to mice. There are many topics you have dealt

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with and in the form of fiction, they are even clearer than you have

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dealt with them. I think one
of your greatest virtues is clarity. You

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make it clear what you mean word
for word. That is, that is,

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obviously, a writer, but there
is also some engineering, economics,

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passing through life that has given you, therefore, an ease both for the

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word and for the precision that comes
from believing in numbers, believing in numbers

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and in your faith in the faith
in numbers is, in a way,

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the subject of mathematics and violence,
a story that is on page ninety-

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one and that is about fanaticism and
has a wonderful closure. If you'

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re listening to this third- round
episode, go to that page and review

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that story and don' t miss
the end of that story that, as

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they teach in the workshops from school, applies the suspicion that whoever reads a

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story is waiting for a final blow. We have already heard to the tiredness

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the comparison between winning by points of
the novel and winning by knockout of the

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story. I heard about the effect
that Garalan Poe was talking about. How

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the story is being built, building
into the final lashes. It would be

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worth rereading the heart of Poe'
s tower. How it takes us and

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takes us from anguish to anguish,
from suspense, in suspense to those last

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screams of the tale, because really
in mathematics and violence a blow is built.

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That amazing. The tales of the
disdain of the gods are essays,

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but they are fictions because they are
also being built towards that final lashe.

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They believe in that final whipping.
There are topics in the book that are

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being dealt with every day. For
example, the story called The Daughter of

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Eve, page one hundred and forty- nine. It speaks of the subrogation

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that has been spoken of and it
is that shuddering is calling for discussion.

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It is really the advantage that this
essay has of the literary narrative, because

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it is scaring the reader to discuss. It' s also not just dragging

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from one shore to the other.
We' ve already said a thousand times

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that narrating means dragging, but it' s also calling the discussion as the

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essays do in I don' t
expect to make this trip. There was

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a commendation of such texts, of
the philosophical essay that had a foot in

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fiction and in Svaye there was a
little that vocation. Here too it is

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developed. The subject, is proven
to be effective and is also being played

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with testimony. It is impressive how
human, too human, in pages seventy

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- three, takes up the tone
of the statues of the south, of

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the autobiographical and how it investigates,
how it deepens in another of your themes,

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which is the theme of tragic forgetfulness, how we are a footprint in

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the mural of history. Let'
s say we' re a dot on

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a dot wall. It' s
a constant in these books that you'

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ve been writing and there in human
too human is very, very developed.

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There is another topic, another topic
in a previous account, Probability zero page

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forty- five that touches me directly
if the statues of the south made me

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think of my dad Probability to be
Huma, makes me think of my brother

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and removes my nostalgia for my brother
And I find the game with the subject

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of numbers fascinating, And I find
fascinating the theory of why we had to

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live the destiny of the drug,
to karma of the drug. In this

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country there are a series of shorter
fictions among the longest fictions and again reminds

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me of the arrangement of the music
albums. The short fictions are a respite,

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they are a parenthesis before continuing in
the transit of a sum of stories

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that is not arbitrary, which is
not a compilation, but rather an anthology

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around a topic, rather a sum
that results in a very consistent, very

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coherent book, around this time of
post truths, of words, of verborrheas,

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that is, of cart and cart
and cart that devalues the words,

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that devalues the truth, that evaluates
the facts and makes way for the screams,

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the fanaticisms. And he' s
very impressed that I hope we'

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ll soon talk face- to-
face about the Trump bombing. It seems

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to me that it has been clear
that we are all disgusted that this happens

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and makes us feel that what could
have happened and gives us chills to see

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the images of that moment. But
it has also been a reminder, all

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of it of the fanaticism in which
we are living the images of the people

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or the publications of the people,
saying that it was, therefore, the

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holy spirit that worked at that time. There is so much extremism, so

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much willingness to force things in favor
of what one believes that all these accounts

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of the disdain of the gods,
that many times they are stories of humor

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and you really laugh, laugh with
laughter, that is, you don'

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t laugh mentally you really laugh.
Many of these stories are what we are

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seeing. I think it' s
the best way to say that it'

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s a reading that makes you feel
like taking advantage of time. I recently

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read a text from a very close
friend that he is arming right now,

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and that' s what I felt. I am taking advantage of the time

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and that I felt with the disdain
of the gods. I feel that besides,

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it has the virtues that have had
the other books, the previous books,

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but now it has one more,
which is the way to use fiction,

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the discovery of fiction, the discovery
of that game, or, let

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' s say, the development of
that game, which you already knew otherwise.

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I, therefore, cannot be happier
to have this book in the hands

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of being able to talk about it, to be able to review it and

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to thank you here among us,
and I believe that here between us is

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what is third return. We talk
to each other and the people who hear

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us. It is part of a
very generous corrillo that one is always encouraging

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to follow. It' s clear
we can all write. It is clear

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that we can all, with luck
and vocation, devote ourselves to the craft

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of writing. But lately I think
we can' t just write, we

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should write. Writing is the best
therapy we have at hand. Welcome to

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a fictional audio course on how and
why to write. Take the audiocourse of

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00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:33.160
fictional writing in the locutorio com slash
fictionario with Ricardo Silva Romero. Always pick

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00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:38.880
a good time. Always choose a
good conversation. Third lap podcast. Subscribe

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00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:45.960
now and listen to it every week
on your favorite platform a podcast produced by

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the speaker. The newsroom follows us
as the newsroom takes hold on social networks