1 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:21,519 We're back with another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily edition Ski, 2 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:24,039 Culture editor here at the Federalist. As always, you can email the 3 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:27,440 show at radio at the Federalist dot com, follow us on Twitter at fdr 4 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:31,839 LST. Make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcasts into the premium version 5 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:36,159 of our website as well. Molly Henningway has agreed to share David Harsani, 6 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:40,119 Senior editor at The Federalist, with me today for a special edition of Federalist 7 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,359 Radio Hour, a Summer Friday, an edition of Federalist Radio Hour because it's 8 00:00:43,399 --> 00:00:47,920 turned out to be a very big day for David Harsani, who you may 9 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:52,039 or may not know is somewhat of a true crime aficionado. So David, 10 00:00:52,039 --> 00:00:55,200 first of all, welcome and secondly, can you just fill us in a 11 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,799 little bit on what some of the breaking news has been in the morning hours 12 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:03,000 of this summer Friday. Well, thank you, it's always a pleasure to 13 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:07,879 share my time with you. I think you have oversold me a bit as 14 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:12,519 an aficionado. I think there are certain cases like the John John Benet Ramsey 15 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:18,200 murder, for instance, where I think I am somewhat of an afficionado on 16 00:01:18,239 --> 00:01:23,000 this one. My interest in the case, which is the Long Island serial 17 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:30,200 killer Gilgo Beach is more has more to do with my growing up like just 18 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:34,040 a few miles away from that place. And I guess I'll start with some 19 00:01:34,079 --> 00:01:42,040 background that there were about ten years ago they found the remains of I think 20 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:46,159 ten, maybe ten or more, a few, you know, maybe twelve 21 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,120 something like that women. I think there was one young man's body as well 22 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,920 on the beach and Gilgo Beach on Long Island. Now, just explain to 23 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:59,000 people who aren't from there, because I like talking about Long Island quite a 24 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:06,519 bit. The the south shore long around has a I called them like smaller 25 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:08,080 islands or keys, I don't know what you'd call them. But there's like 26 00:02:08,199 --> 00:02:13,360 Rockaway Beach which was made famous by the Ramones, and Long Long Beach and 27 00:02:13,479 --> 00:02:16,599 Jones Beach, which is the really big, busy beach, and then right 28 00:02:16,599 --> 00:02:20,520 next to it is Gilgo Beach where there are less people. So this is 29 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:24,120 where the bodies were found in twenty ten. But I believe they thought that 30 00:02:24,159 --> 00:02:29,319 the murders had gone back a few years, maybe to nineteen ninety, I'm 31 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,120 not exactly sure, but maybe to nineteen ninety six something like that, or 32 00:02:31,199 --> 00:02:37,039 two thousand for sure, the two mid two thousands, and they could never 33 00:02:37,039 --> 00:02:43,360 find the killer. And a few years ago they they were sort of reinvigorated 34 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,919 the case or reopened the case and released some audio of one of the women 35 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:52,680 who went missing and stuff like that. And apparently today they arrested a man 36 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:58,240 who's the suspect. In his name, I believe his Rex Hereman or something 37 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:00,560 like that, and he's from a place called Massapequa Park, which is very 38 00:03:00,599 --> 00:03:05,080 which is nearby on Long Island. I was telling David, I have a 39 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:07,639 really hard time hearing about Massapequa and not thinking of the episode of Friends. 40 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:14,879 It's it's literally called the one in Massapequa because Alec Baldwin's character is he hears 41 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,800 Massapequa and goes on this. I think they call him like Santa claus On 42 00:03:17,879 --> 00:03:23,319 pros act this this tangent about what a magical place Massapequa must be, just 43 00:03:23,439 --> 00:03:28,840 based on the lyrical name. And David then was like, well, the 44 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:32,280 Baldwin brothers are actually from Massapequa. And as I'm reading the New York Post 45 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:38,919 coverage of these the Gilgo Beach suspect Rex Herman of course they have invoked the 46 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:44,039 Baldwin brothers already. Well it's funny. So from what I gather, he's 47 00:03:44,039 --> 00:03:46,439 from a place called Massapequa Park, which is basically the same thing. It's 48 00:03:46,479 --> 00:03:49,479 just on the other side of a park. I'm just you know, I 49 00:03:49,479 --> 00:03:53,919 don't know until you want home beach upper like Upper Montclair or something. But 50 00:03:54,120 --> 00:04:00,159 yeah, So what made massi Pequa when I was growing up sort of famous, 51 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,319 I guess is that there was a big mall there called Sunrise Mall where 52 00:04:03,319 --> 00:04:05,560 all the kids went to hang out, because that's what we did in the 53 00:04:05,639 --> 00:04:12,599 eighties. But so even Jerry Seinfeld as this joke where he says that Massapequa 54 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:15,439 and Native American means like near the mall, which always makes me laugh. 55 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,319 But it is also known for the for the birthplace of Joey but A Fuco, 56 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:25,800 another sort of infamous long islander. So yeah, so that's where that's 57 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:30,120 where he's from. That's where the Baldwin brothers are from. And I M 58 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:32,680 not I don't know how many people will care about this. Grew up maybe 59 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:34,959 well, you know, I was born in Queensby, grew up a few 60 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:39,759 towns over from there, So that's all south Shore. It's basically like one 61 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:46,000 sprawling, giant suburb, exactly what you would imagine it, Like, you 62 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:48,279 know, there's a Massapequa, let's say, Seaford's right next door, but 63 00:04:48,759 --> 00:04:54,399 no human being would be able to detect any difference between massieuit Seaford. Like 64 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:59,439 it's just one long, giant suburb. And that's where this guy, Rex 65 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:04,079 Hureman was from. Apparently it's funny because I read this piece in the Post 66 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:09,199 that said that Gilgo Beach murder suspect was weird. It says in a big 67 00:05:09,319 --> 00:05:13,319 talker sources something like, isn't that everyone on Long Island? Everyone else out? 68 00:05:13,319 --> 00:05:17,000 It's a big talker and weird. It's just redundant. So this guy 69 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:23,959 is apparently fifty nine years old, and it looks like he's an architect or 70 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:29,120 works at an architecture firm. So basically the point of me mentioning that is 71 00:05:29,759 --> 00:05:34,360 seems to be somewhat upper class, and that's kind of interesting in and of 72 00:05:34,439 --> 00:05:39,720 itself. But it also says for the bodies of four women, looks like 73 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:43,319 it was in the late two thousands, so like around two thousand and nine 74 00:05:43,399 --> 00:05:46,720 twenty ten. Is that sort of the setting? Does that sound right, 75 00:05:46,879 --> 00:05:50,279 Long Island, Go Go Beach, two thousand and ten. And here you 76 00:05:50,399 --> 00:05:56,600 have a you know, educated, seemingly upper middle class person that's now being 77 00:05:56,639 --> 00:06:00,879 implicated just from the just from what I've read, I'm going to say that, 78 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:05,879 Yeah, I mean, he's an architect. He's apparently worked in Manhattan 79 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:12,279 since nineteen eighty seventy. Is some kind of firm there's obviously, so the 80 00:06:12,399 --> 00:06:15,600 north shore of Long Islands typically richer than the south shore. But don't get 81 00:06:15,639 --> 00:06:18,439 me wrong, it's expensive to live there now for anyone. But it was 82 00:06:18,519 --> 00:06:21,240 weird because the house that they went to, at least in the pictures in 83 00:06:21,319 --> 00:06:25,240 the post, it looks like it's falling apart, like it doesn't look like 84 00:06:25,399 --> 00:06:30,160 he It just didn't look like he was upper class at all, frankly from 85 00:06:30,519 --> 00:06:32,800 how he lived. But he could just be this weirdo, you know, 86 00:06:32,879 --> 00:06:39,240 I don't know, so obviously he is. If he's looks definitely usually qualifies 87 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:43,079 you as something of a weirdo too. Yeah. So, so he has 88 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,319 an architecture firm on Fifth Avenue that it came up in nineteen ninety four, 89 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:50,360 and that's ten years the post does before the Long Island murders began. Yeah, 90 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,759 but they you know, there's a map, and they found a lot 91 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:58,720 of a lot more than four bodies there. But you know, I guess 92 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:02,079 maybe they don't know if where other maybe Gilgo Beaches, like the place you 93 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,560 went to bury the people you murdered. I don't know, like I don't 94 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:09,839 know. And we should also also mention that these people who were murdered not 95 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,560 you know, and just doesn't diminish the horror of the crime, or sex 96 00:07:13,639 --> 00:07:16,639 workers, so he might have found them or picked them up in Manhattan and 97 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:20,879 then brought them out there or what you know, whatever, which reminded me, 98 00:07:21,319 --> 00:07:24,720 as I was telling you before, of another murder. His name was 99 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:29,360 Joel Rifkin, who was sort of an infamous serial killer who did the same 100 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,160 sort of thing, and he was he was actually caught right near where I 101 00:07:32,639 --> 00:07:38,360 where I was growing up, off and exit on the Southern State Parkway there 102 00:07:38,399 --> 00:07:44,319 on Long Island. So m rich with serial killers, Like we don't have 103 00:07:44,399 --> 00:07:46,519 a we don't have a tradition of serial killers out there, but apparently there 104 00:07:46,519 --> 00:07:49,399 are a few. We definitely do in Wisconsin. But this is just an 105 00:07:49,439 --> 00:07:55,800 amazing I think turn of events where David Harsani starts the podcast by saying, 106 00:07:55,839 --> 00:07:59,600 maybe I've overstated his status as a true crime officient auto and it's like will 107 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:05,199 act. Actually it's it's sort of similar to the Joel Rifkin case. First 108 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:09,199 of all, I do not appreciate that impression, but I will say that, 109 00:08:09,319 --> 00:08:13,839 yeah, Joel Rifkin also, people can look him up in the nineties, 110 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:20,519 would anything it's Rifkin, not Rifkin, but he would go into the 111 00:08:20,639 --> 00:08:24,800 into Manhattan and then you know, find his victims and then drive them out 112 00:08:24,199 --> 00:08:28,720 to places like I think actually probably on the on the beach as well, 113 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,799 because it's not obviously it's very busy during the day, but at night there 114 00:08:33,799 --> 00:08:37,360 aren't a lot of people down there obviously, so it looks like the right 115 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:39,759 place to go if you're doing that sort of thing, I guess. So 116 00:08:41,039 --> 00:08:43,399 what else stands out to you about you know, the news that we have 117 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:46,639 at today or even the case itself, which I actually was not familiar with 118 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:50,519 it all. And I've seen a kind of wall to wall coverage on in 119 00:08:50,639 --> 00:08:54,159 certain corners of the media over the course of this morning. Um, I'm 120 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:58,039 not even familiar with this case, But what makes it, you know, 121 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:01,039 intriguing and what about this news stands out to you too? Well? For 122 00:09:01,159 --> 00:09:03,759 me obviously because I grew up there and I have a lot of family and 123 00:09:03,879 --> 00:09:07,759 friends there, it was it was actually quite big news because it's you know, 124 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:11,600 obviously it's scary when you have a serial killer. But I also think 125 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:13,799 when I was when I was growing up, you know, there were seemed 126 00:09:13,799 --> 00:09:16,360 to be many more serial killers, and it was hard to find them in 127 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:22,000 hard to cops to capture them because you know, they were wildly or they 128 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,759 would, you know, like the Zodiac killer would send notes to the paper 129 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:28,840 things like that. But these days, because of DNA technology and a little 130 00:09:28,879 --> 00:09:31,399 cameras or whatnot, it seems like there are far fewer of these sorts of 131 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:37,759 criminals around, or they're maybe they're caught immediately or whatever. So what was 132 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:43,840 what was the guy's name? B BF He was a killer and they caught 133 00:09:43,879 --> 00:09:48,399 him like BFK. Yeah, BFK killer who they caught years later through I 134 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:52,440 think they they it was a DNA thing on a stamp or something like that. 135 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:56,279 So, you know, serial killers can't foresee what kind of technology we 136 00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:00,720 have. So I think it's interesting bt K. Yeah, So so I'm 137 00:10:00,759 --> 00:10:03,399 not sure how they caught this guy, though they again, I think in 138 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:07,519 twenty twenty one or twenty twenty two, they kind of started sending out more 139 00:10:07,639 --> 00:10:11,679 information to the public. It seems like someone called in with with something, 140 00:10:11,759 --> 00:10:16,320 but they haven't shared that yet. But you know, with so it's a 141 00:10:16,399 --> 00:10:22,600 rarer I think these days to have a serial killer at large and that and 142 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:30,320 that probably fascinates people more because it's rare, and because they're caught so often, 143 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,399 you know, and don't get to do these things. And here's something 144 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:37,480 interesting. The Post is also borating. By the way, David, you 145 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:39,759 can probably back me up on this. The New York Post is really the 146 00:10:41,399 --> 00:10:46,799 go to for all New York area crime story. Just why I'm relying on 147 00:10:46,879 --> 00:10:52,120 it heavily. Yeah, it has been for forevers and something Yeah, since 148 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:56,320 young It's just yeah, they'll just give you everything you want when you're reading 149 00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:00,919 about a story like yeah, including pictures and to the point where I think 150 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:05,159 it's potentially responsible at times. That's said, they are all over the coverage 151 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,120 sort of their specialty. And they are also reporting that there was this creepy 152 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:16,759 caller who used a cell phone actually from one of the victims to as they 153 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:20,679 say, taunt that victim's sister. Actually after she disappeared, this person, 154 00:11:20,759 --> 00:11:24,279 according to the Post quote, received roughly a dozen ominous calls from an unknown 155 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:28,639 person. And according to the Post, this suspect is potentially the person. 156 00:11:28,759 --> 00:11:31,480 I mean, obviously that would make sense, but it's potentially the person to 157 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:35,559 do that. And it gets to something you were just talking about, how 158 00:11:35,279 --> 00:11:37,840 you know, the Golden State killer for instance, another one of these like 159 00:11:37,919 --> 00:11:48,720 quintessential seventies eighties crime sprees that upended a lot of middle class neighborhoods and scared 160 00:11:48,919 --> 00:11:54,159 families and mothers and fathers and went on for a really long time. That 161 00:11:54,360 --> 00:12:01,200 was also DNA testing recently. That's a crime that has larger than solved because 162 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:05,559 there were updates in DNA technology. And in this case, your Zodiac killer 163 00:12:05,639 --> 00:12:09,600 doing letters. And in this case you have cell phones being used to like 164 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:11,879 sort of obscure the caller or in ways that you would have to be fairly 165 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:16,679 tech savvy to kind of get into someone else's phone and call the person. 166 00:12:16,159 --> 00:12:22,399 I actually think that's a fairly interesting sort of detail about this suspect. Yet 167 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:26,799 they trying, but they might be able to triangulate calls or get a better 168 00:12:26,919 --> 00:12:30,200 sense of where they're coming here. This is you're also pretty good on cereal, 169 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,720 and that's what part of the serial cases as well, the odd non 170 00:12:33,799 --> 00:12:37,960 said case. Yeah, that was a long time ago. I remember being 171 00:12:37,159 --> 00:12:41,600 very very skeptical about the framing of that, of his innocence, and obviously 172 00:12:41,759 --> 00:12:46,000 I think they let him out right, So, but there was a star 173 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:52,519 recently about yeah them again basically I forgot, I forget, which I'm sorry 174 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:56,159 I forget, which this is all breaking so I haven't done all the research 175 00:12:56,279 --> 00:13:01,399 necessary, but I believe that some some news paper went back and looked at 176 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:03,600 the evidence and pretty much that he was guilty. But anyway, yeah, 177 00:13:03,759 --> 00:13:09,519 so so yeah, I mean, I don't know. I feel like cell 178 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,600 phones and things like that are are traceable in different ways. Obviously, people 179 00:13:13,639 --> 00:13:16,960 used to call from pay phones, so it'd be almost impossible to track them 180 00:13:18,039 --> 00:13:20,639 down. We didn't have cameras everywhere, and not just cameras that the police 181 00:13:20,759 --> 00:13:24,519 use in the government uses, but just people have cameras everywhere. They're taking 182 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:31,360 pictures all the time. There it's very hard to hide hide in plain sight 183 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:35,559 anymore. I think the Idaho killer great example, the Moscow, Idaho killer 184 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:41,919 in the last year, right, and Long Island. Like, so if 185 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:43,960 you go to a city, I don't know where Denver, where I lived 186 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:46,679 for a while, and people would call it the city. To me, 187 00:13:46,799 --> 00:13:48,159 it didn't seem like a city. It just seemed like Long Island. You're 188 00:13:48,159 --> 00:13:50,639 like, you know what I mean. It's really dense and busy. There's 189 00:13:50,759 --> 00:13:56,840 for most people would view places like Massapequa as as a city, as an 190 00:13:56,919 --> 00:13:58,600 urban area. There are a lot of people around all the time. So 191 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,080 for someone to get away with it for this longest kind of surprising. Yeah, 192 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:07,320 I agree with that, but there's something I guess particular about the time 193 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:11,240 period in which you grow up. So, for instance, only murders in 194 00:14:11,279 --> 00:14:13,919 the building. I don't know if you've watched that show, but they go 195 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:18,159 back to Zodiac where they go back to m Berkowitz, which one was Berklewitz. 196 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:22,519 Yeah, it's Son of Sam, Son of Sam, Right, So 197 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:24,879 they go back to Son of Sam, and they really zoom in on this 198 00:14:26,279 --> 00:14:28,519 particular era, and there is very much something about it, And I wonder 199 00:14:28,519 --> 00:14:31,960 if you've any more thoughts on just sort of it's not just the technology, 200 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:37,200 but what that did to kind of American culture from Golden State to Son of 201 00:14:37,279 --> 00:14:41,120 Sam to Zodiac at the time. Well, I don't. I'm not that 202 00:14:41,279 --> 00:14:45,639 old, Emily, so I don't exactly. I just first ever remember it 203 00:14:45,879 --> 00:14:50,200 in such a great detail. I didn't ask you about edgean of the Society 204 00:14:50,279 --> 00:14:54,759 in nineteen seventy seven or whatever. But I was alive and I was young, 205 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,639 and actually I lived in Queens, New York in nineteen seventy six and 206 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:03,120 in when The Son of Sam was around, and I think, you know, 207 00:15:03,639 --> 00:15:07,879 there was obviously the crime rates were very high in those days. There 208 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:09,919 was just a lot of murderers. I forget. You know, you're talking 209 00:15:09,919 --> 00:15:16,559 about two three thousand murders in New York City every year. And the idea 210 00:15:16,679 --> 00:15:20,440 that someone and you know, and people felt helpless. That's why you had 211 00:15:20,559 --> 00:15:26,480 all these sort of death wish or all these um vigilante movies, Dirty Harry. 212 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:31,039 It probably would just made people feel less helpless to see that sort of 213 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:35,200 thing. But in reality, you know, you had this David Berkowits walking 214 00:15:35,279 --> 00:15:37,399 around, I mean, they didn't know who he was at the time, 215 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:43,720 shooting women and shooting couples, and I just think that it fed into a 216 00:15:43,799 --> 00:15:46,440 sense of helplessness for a lot of people. Just looking back and talking to 217 00:15:46,559 --> 00:15:52,399 people where you know, life was pretty bad. There's garbage everywhere, there's 218 00:15:52,519 --> 00:15:56,519 strikes, there's you know, New York City is going bankrupt, and you 219 00:15:56,679 --> 00:16:00,519 have people just ran. It's not even that they want your money anymore. 220 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,080 They're not mugging you, they're just shooting you for no reason. So I 221 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:08,519 think that there's a mccob's sort of fascination with people like that. But also 222 00:16:10,039 --> 00:16:12,799 at the time, it just fed into what people were already feeling about the 223 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:17,080 world, which was, you know, a sense of helplessness in the face 224 00:16:17,159 --> 00:16:19,600 of crime and these kind of defarious figures, and there were a lot of 225 00:16:19,639 --> 00:16:22,320 them. Obviously out West you had killers. You know, what was it. 226 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,960 I think it was the Green River Killer. I went back and read 227 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,600 about that one time. It just was like, I can't believe he killed 228 00:16:27,879 --> 00:16:30,679 seventy people or whatever it was, and they couldn't catch him. Essentially, 229 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:36,240 before DNA technology, a lot of these serial killers, if they were careful, 230 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:38,679 just go about their business as long as they felt like and that's pretty 231 00:16:38,679 --> 00:16:47,519 horrifying. The Washedout on Wall Street podcast with Chris Murkowski. Every day, 232 00:16:47,639 --> 00:16:51,519 Chris helps unpack the connection between politics and the economy and how it affects your 233 00:16:51,559 --> 00:16:56,080 wallet is Biden's economic plan. Truly, working wages are going backwards as new 234 00:16:56,159 --> 00:17:00,120 regulations are costing ten thousand dollars per American within deflation at a higher rate, 235 00:17:00,279 --> 00:17:04,279 your spending power goes down. Make sure you know what numbers to pay attention 236 00:17:04,319 --> 00:17:07,200 to. Whether it's happening in DC or down on Wall Street, it's affecting 237 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:11,319 you financially. Be informed. Check out the Watchdot on Wall Street podcast with 238 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:18,400 Chris Murkowski on Apple, Spotify, wherever you get your podcast. I'm actually 239 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:22,640 going to play some audio right now from Rex Shrman because there's a YouTube video 240 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:25,920 of him kind of talking about his career. So let me just hit play 241 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:30,400 on this in your office, all right. I wasn't looking forward to doing 242 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:37,599 this under a scoffold. The voice you just say, okay, anyway, 243 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:42,160 let's divide. So tells you know who you are, you know where you're 244 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:48,799 from, and I don't give been in New York okay, Um, Rex 245 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:52,079 Heureman. I'm an architect. I'm an architectural consultant. I'm a trouble shooter. 246 00:17:52,839 --> 00:17:56,920 Born and raised on Long Island, Okay, been working in Manhattan since 247 00:17:57,039 --> 00:18:02,680 nineteen eighty seven. Oh wow, very long time. Okay, so that's 248 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:04,359 just a little bit of it. This is from a YouTube channel called Bonjour 249 00:18:04,599 --> 00:18:08,640 Realty. Um So he apparently, according to the post, his clients included 250 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:12,640 American airlines, So there's probably some pretty big clients, Sarah. If you're 251 00:18:14,079 --> 00:18:18,559 watching the video, you can see his office looks looks pretty nice. He 252 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,759 seems to be, you know, sort of your typical long islander. I 253 00:18:22,839 --> 00:18:26,240 think, David, he sounds like your typical long islander. Thank thank you. 254 00:18:26,559 --> 00:18:30,000 So, you know, I just read something very interesting. As you 255 00:18:30,079 --> 00:18:34,240 were playing that, it didn't hit me that the Baldwin brothers grew up right 256 00:18:34,319 --> 00:18:37,319 there, right, and they're around the same age. So actor Billy Baldwin 257 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:41,440 says that this guy was a classmate of his at Burner High School, Massapeque 258 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:47,480 one, nineteen eighty one. Are you implicating the Baldwin brothers time is a 259 00:18:47,559 --> 00:18:51,240 flat circle? No, I'm not. I'm just saying, yeah, one 260 00:18:51,279 --> 00:18:56,039 of them is already enough trouble over something like this. One of them is 261 00:18:56,079 --> 00:19:00,079 a killer himself. I don't know why I'm laughing about that. Actually is 262 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:03,799 probably a good question. No, it's a question. We can talk about 263 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:08,240 later. But basically, this is four women. They were all found Apparently 264 00:19:08,319 --> 00:19:14,200 they were all sort of left within days of each other and go Go beach 265 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:18,920 in twenty ten, and they were all wrapped in burlap, So that was 266 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:22,079 the sort of pie that brought them all together. Is there anything else that 267 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:26,880 we're missing on that? I don't think so, I mean, any other 268 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:32,400 details that are particular to why there's one killer. For instance, Peacock has 269 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:37,200 a movie out right now implying the zodiat killers, like the entire single killer 270 00:19:37,279 --> 00:19:38,880 theory is wrong, that maybe it was multiple killers. But is there anything 271 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,200 else we're missing about that that might you know, once they have one suspect, 272 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:45,640 it might really bring the case together. I don't know. There was 273 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:51,279 one of the women who they had audio of calling nine one one, and 274 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:55,599 the cops last year said that that that person probably wasn't killed by the same 275 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:59,480 killer, So who I'm not sure. I can't say. There were a 276 00:19:59,519 --> 00:20:03,359 lot of He's very close to each other, so I guess we'll know more 277 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:08,680 soon enough. I think it's more like the obvious, you know, with 278 00:20:08,839 --> 00:20:11,680 the Zodiac or others, because we don't know who it was. Necessarily, 279 00:20:11,799 --> 00:20:15,960 there's a lot of you know, theorizing people. I mean, I read 280 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,599 the Zodiac book. I forgot the name of the author. I watched the 281 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:22,839 movie. I'm really into that case as well. But you're not an aficionado. 282 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:27,200 No, I wouldn't say not on that case. I was really into 283 00:20:27,319 --> 00:20:33,599 making making a murderer. That guy I remember, because I disagree. That's 284 00:20:33,599 --> 00:20:36,920 closer to where I grew up, so probably a similar distance from this one 285 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,359 to you. And I actually have vehemently disagreed with your coverage of that, 286 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:44,480 although it is very helpful. Yeah, I kind of need to refresh my 287 00:20:44,559 --> 00:20:47,039 memory and that. But anyway, and this one, it seems to me 288 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:51,319 like the obvious answer is the right answer. There's this crazy if this is 289 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:53,119 the guy, that there was one guy and he was doing this, what's 290 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:57,720 weird to me? And I don't really understand the psychologist. It's obviously completely 291 00:20:57,799 --> 00:21:03,880 but we're at all hopefully, But why these people go on these murder spreeze 292 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:07,559 and then just can stop. It tells me that it's not you know that 293 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:11,799 they have that they're I don't know, more logical and how they go about 294 00:21:11,839 --> 00:21:15,559 this, or and less just you know that it's less just some kind of 295 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:22,880 you know break with reality or whatever, because they're obviously planning these things, 296 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,640 and then when when the pressure's on, they stopped for a long time or 297 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,440 forever. Maybe this guy didn't kill at all. It was the same thing 298 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,160 with the killer out in Kansas. I mean he had he hadn't killed in 299 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:33,599 the I think it was the seventies or eighties, and then he just stopped 300 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,480 for decades, right, So I don't know. I think that's an interesting 301 00:21:37,839 --> 00:21:41,440 aspect of this as well. Well. Yeah, and that's another interesting question 302 00:21:41,519 --> 00:21:45,960 about serial killers and kind of the place that they occupy it or even the 303 00:21:45,319 --> 00:21:48,400 I don't know, stereotypes not the right word, but archetypes that they occupy 304 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:53,559 in our imaginations. Is that sometimes it's it's the igeene or the you know, 305 00:21:55,960 --> 00:22:00,359 the sort of introverted lives on the outskirts of town, is not integrated 306 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:04,519 well into the community, and is someone you're just like, Yep, that's 307 00:22:04,759 --> 00:22:08,079 the person I can totally see that they're serial killer. And then other times 308 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:15,960 it's had Bundy and you know, somebody who is extroverted and so extroverted in 309 00:22:15,039 --> 00:22:19,599 fact that they're sort of able to charm their way into situations that enable them 310 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:25,319 to prey on people and this guy just based on the video and the sound 311 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:29,039 we just played, I mean, he looks gregarious, He looks completely normal, 312 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,440 sounds pretty completely normal in that video too, So it seems to be 313 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:38,920 like one of more of one of that type of in that vein rather than 314 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:44,319 the other where you just have a sort of creepy introvert stalking. It's creepy 315 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,400 in a different way when it's somebody who sort of charms their way into this. 316 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,480 Yeah, I think that it's more horrifying when people think about Bundy who 317 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:56,640 who was you know, a good looking guy and wasn't stupid and all that, 318 00:22:56,759 --> 00:23:00,640 because a smart person can even trick the cops more trick you, and 319 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,240 so probably goes back to like Jack the Ripper, where you know, could 320 00:23:03,279 --> 00:23:07,519 have been a doctor you know who is doing it or whatever. The theories 321 00:23:07,559 --> 00:23:10,920 are so yeah, but a lot of times it is just the loaner type 322 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:15,279 and obviously something wrong, you know, wrong Joe Rifkin or whatever type who 323 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,759 was I believe he was adopted. Now I'm not saying that, I'm not 324 00:23:18,839 --> 00:23:22,279 saying serial killers aren't necessarily all adopted, but he never really I think, 325 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,680 you know, could fit into society in a way. So I don't pretend 326 00:23:26,759 --> 00:23:29,680 to know why, you know, the motivations of these people, but the 327 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,519 very idea that you will just kill to kill because it gives you some sort 328 00:23:33,519 --> 00:23:38,160 of joy or whatever is horrifying, right. It's not. These aren't criminals 329 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:42,079 in the sense that we can you know, apply any logic to how they're 330 00:23:42,079 --> 00:23:45,200 acting. So I think that that's what fascinates people, and for people on 331 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,400 because of the folks on Long Island, you know, it's just it's probably 332 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:52,319 just scary to have someone like this among you know, among them, who 333 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:56,279 they didn't you know, without you know who, they didn't know who it 334 00:23:56,319 --> 00:23:57,039 was, could have been their neighbor. And it turned out it was a 335 00:23:57,079 --> 00:24:03,160 neighbor of people who are very how can I say, you know, middle 336 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,240 class, you know, a very nondescript middle class area. It's not like 337 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:08,400 like you say, it wasn't out on the outskirts of town. It wasn't 338 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:14,440 some crazy, you know, some nut or seemingly a nut, and and 339 00:24:14,519 --> 00:24:18,079 it was just among them, and that's scary. Yeah. So the victims 340 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:22,880 are twenty four year old Melissa Barthelomy. She was discovered along Ocean Parkway on 341 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:26,000 December eleventh, twenty ten. Now there are three others, Meghan Waterman who 342 00:24:26,039 --> 00:24:30,559 was twenty two, Amberlin Costello who's twenty seven, and Marine Brainard Barnes who 343 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,519 was twenty five. So these are all women in their their early to late 344 00:24:34,599 --> 00:24:38,559 twenties or probably even early to mid twenties old as being twenty seven years old, 345 00:24:40,319 --> 00:24:44,039 So all all very very young. Um, definitely all you know, 346 00:24:44,599 --> 00:24:48,839 people who had a lot of life in front of them and were found in 347 00:24:49,039 --> 00:24:56,640 these burlap I guess, wrapped in burlap about a tenth of a mile from 348 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,720 each other actually on the beach itself. Yeah, but there were eleven bodies 349 00:25:00,759 --> 00:25:04,240 found, so I do wonder what's going on? And I saw that one 350 00:25:04,279 --> 00:25:07,720 of the lawyers for one of the victims said that that he knew that the 351 00:25:07,799 --> 00:25:11,640 cops had another suspect as well and some of those murders, so I maybe 352 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,240 maybe it's more than one murderer, you know, who knows, though that's 353 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:21,000 usually not the case. That usually doesn't happen when it comes to serial killers 354 00:25:21,079 --> 00:25:25,720 as far as my expertise on the issue issue goes. But yeah, I 355 00:25:25,839 --> 00:25:29,160 mean, you know, we should just say, you know, as I 356 00:25:29,319 --> 00:25:33,400 hate that we there's sort of an entertainment value connected to these sorts of things. 357 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,920 But it's kind of you know, serial killers and these you know cases. 358 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,039 But it's just I don't know, it's just how it is. And 359 00:25:40,279 --> 00:25:42,400 and but we should always remember that this is, you know, this is 360 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,839 a pretty serious thing. And uh, I know that I've been laughing and 361 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,079 stuff, but I'm not laughing at the mergers. I'm laughing. There go 362 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:52,119 again, you know, it's a nervous laugh, I guess, or you 363 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:56,559 know whatever. I don't know. I just feel like, um, when 364 00:25:56,599 --> 00:25:59,400 I watch these shows or when I read a book on something like this, 365 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,000 it's always I always feel a little guilt underneath that there's an entertainment value connected 366 00:26:03,039 --> 00:26:07,119 to it. I don't know why that exists. I think personally, it's 367 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,599 not murder or anything like that. It's the mystery and the horror of these 368 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,519 kind of people, you know. And I think since the eighteen hundreds you've 369 00:26:15,559 --> 00:26:22,680 had a lot of literature books and Grand Poe to whoever that has, you 370 00:26:22,759 --> 00:26:25,920 know, even Dustyevsky, you know, who are fascinated with people who just 371 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:32,200 killed to kill right, and who gained nothing from it but some sort of 372 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:36,240 perverse satisfaction. So I don't know. I'm just thinking it through as we 373 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:37,920 talk. So I think that's the reason people are so fascinated by this. 374 00:26:38,279 --> 00:26:41,759 Yeah, And I think, you know, we've a lot of times try 375 00:26:41,799 --> 00:26:45,799 to pin down one particular reason for the true crime fascination. A lot of 376 00:26:45,839 --> 00:26:48,599 the media coverage is like, well, women are terrified, and that's what 377 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,079 women are drawn particularly it's a true crime. But I actually going to ask 378 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:56,559 you that question, especially about I remember being at the Titanic Museum. It 379 00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:00,400 was a Titanic exhibit at the National Geographics I should say, a couple of 380 00:27:00,519 --> 00:27:07,319 years back, and just being reading these horrifying stories and watching people kind of 381 00:27:07,559 --> 00:27:12,720 laugh their way through the exhibit and make jokes about the movie. And I'm 382 00:27:12,799 --> 00:27:15,640 not exempting myself from that at all. It's kind of an easy thing to 383 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:18,920 fall into. And you know, there's something particular about the Titanic. It's 384 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,480 it's not a serial killer story, but it's the same kind of intrigue, 385 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,480 I think, and it's just a very human I mean, it's almost it's 386 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:30,480 a spectator sport because we're all they all live in this country, you know, 387 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:34,440 where we all live in communities where horrible things happen and so you're you're 388 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,559 a part of it in a different way, and in a time when people 389 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,200 feel like they aren't a part of things and they aren't you know, maybe 390 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,960 they don't feel like they belong to their community or they don't belong to as 391 00:27:45,079 --> 00:27:48,759 much so society, that there's something about you know, you are part of 392 00:27:48,839 --> 00:27:52,880 this. We're all part of it because we all live in this world and 393 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,400 we all live in these communities. That adds a layer of intrigue. I 394 00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:00,839 don't know, that's that's one of my theories. I think that's a good 395 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:06,880 theory in some sense. When you have historical events made into movies and covered 396 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:14,440 so often, they just they they they are mutate into stories that seem almost 397 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,400 like fiction to people. Right, So, I think like the Titanic story 398 00:28:18,519 --> 00:28:23,480 does not does not have the emotional weight of of something that has happened. 399 00:28:23,759 --> 00:28:26,759 You know, it just happened at so long ago that people just view it 400 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,759 as entertainment. You know, it's like in a sense, at least I 401 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,240 hope you know, when you see people like taking selfies at Auschwitz, you 402 00:28:34,319 --> 00:28:37,880 know, it's it's horrifying that people don't take it seriously. But you know, 403 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:42,200 young for young people that's something that happened so long ago that they can't 404 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:48,160 even really process it in a way that you would process something horrible that happens 405 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,680 today. So maybe that'll happened with nine to eleven. I don't know. 406 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,920 So I think a lot of the crime stuff is probably similar so far away, 407 00:28:56,279 --> 00:29:00,599 you know, and people enjoy mystery and things like that. So I 408 00:29:00,799 --> 00:29:03,319 never found the Titanic story like interesting. I don't actually think I've ever even 409 00:29:03,599 --> 00:29:08,480 sat through that movie because it's just it's just, you know, people incompetent 410 00:29:08,519 --> 00:29:12,680 people crashing a boat. Basically, I'm sorry that, you know, people 411 00:29:12,759 --> 00:29:15,519 died there, but it's long enough that you know, you don't feel that 412 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:19,799 bad about that, or it doesn't have the emotional resonance. It's something like 413 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,559 watching a nine to eleven movie which I lived through. Would you know, 414 00:29:22,799 --> 00:29:26,839 so I'm going to get that in a way, I think, Yeah, 415 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,599 no, And it's like the link An assassination, Right, that's a perfectly 416 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,880 fair game for humor in the United States at this point, too soon. 417 00:29:36,079 --> 00:29:40,559 Yeah, no, people, you know, they it's it's like ancient you 418 00:29:40,599 --> 00:29:42,440 know, you read about you got to POMPEII or something, right, I'm 419 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,960 sure you know what are you supposed to do? You can't. You know, 420 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,680 we have enough horrors in our world where we shouldn't have to relive the 421 00:29:48,759 --> 00:29:55,039 horrors of the past. And in that way, Pompey is objectively hilarious because 422 00:29:55,079 --> 00:29:59,720 there are dicks all over the place. I didn't know I could say that 423 00:30:00,079 --> 00:30:03,839 this on this podcast. So yeah, there are there are there are there 424 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,519 are people mastur masturbating and things like that. There's a lot of really weird 425 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,440 stuff going on in pompe which you're like, what was going on in these 426 00:30:11,519 --> 00:30:15,440 ancient Roman cities? But um, yeah, there are a lot of dicks 427 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:22,400 there and and and you know, so it is funny, funny. So 428 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,279 I was there was a True Crime convention and it's it's annual, but it 429 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:30,960 was in DC actually a few years ago, and I went to a conversation 430 00:30:30,119 --> 00:30:37,640 between um Amanda Knox and who's the woman who also a New Yorker, right, 431 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:41,359 who, in the middle of the night cut off her husband's penis. 432 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:45,519 Oh yeah, yeah, Lorena Bobbit. Yeah, because there was a new 433 00:30:45,599 --> 00:30:48,640 Hulu thing coming out on Lorena Boppit and so it was like build as a 434 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:53,400 conversation just between Amanda Knox and Lorena Boppit and I was covering culture of Federalists 435 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:59,000 and thought that would be probably a worthwhile story and went there not realizing it 436 00:30:59,079 --> 00:31:02,599 was attached to this larger true crime convention. And I'm telling you it was 437 00:31:02,759 --> 00:31:11,119 all women. The convention was just just young professional women that were completely invigorated 438 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:15,680 by the true crime arena. And I've heard that the convention is like that 439 00:31:15,799 --> 00:31:19,240 basically every year. It is such a It does seem like a female dominated 440 00:31:19,759 --> 00:31:25,000 um genre. But I guess my question for you, David. I was 441 00:31:25,079 --> 00:31:27,000 literally gonna say, David, tell me you, are you even a man? 442 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,799 That's me? Of course I am. I am not. No. 443 00:31:33,079 --> 00:31:37,559 I would say that it's weird, like when I hear that women you know, 444 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,000 marry work or in love with, you know, these murderers sometimes, 445 00:31:41,359 --> 00:31:45,160 you know those kind of stories. It's just Weirdon's prison lives. Yeah, 446 00:31:45,279 --> 00:31:48,119 exactly, exactly. Now, I'm not saying that that's the case with people 447 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:52,119 who visit true crime. I mean, I don't know. I feel like 448 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:57,720 true crime is widely um. David Fincher, is that his named David Fincher, 449 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,160 who directed like seven in Pike Club and all that he had, He 450 00:32:01,279 --> 00:32:06,839 had an excellent series on Netflix about you know, it had Berkowitz, had 451 00:32:07,279 --> 00:32:10,599 a few other famous serial killers, and it was about the sort of birth 452 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:15,880 of forensic the kind of forensic signs that helped you track track these people down. 453 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:21,279 And I just found it really fascinating, and I think they were pretty 454 00:32:21,319 --> 00:32:23,759 popular, and it really reminds me of you know, in the eighteen hundreds, 455 00:32:23,759 --> 00:32:28,400 who had the Sherlock Holmes stories, but others as well that were almost 456 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:32,880 the same thing. They were like about the birth of scientific method and finding 457 00:32:34,079 --> 00:32:42,440 you know, logic and finding these serial killers and other villains who were terrorizing 458 00:32:42,519 --> 00:32:45,519 people in London and elsewhere, even you know, even though the murders were 459 00:32:45,599 --> 00:32:50,920 probably far they were far fewer murders than people thought. You know, there's 460 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:52,440 a lot of scaremongering that goes on with this sort of thing. But anyway, 461 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,119 so I don't know how I got on that subject, but I don't 462 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:59,680 know why women are especially into it. But I can't believe it did not 463 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:00,880 go to this convention. It's one of the few things I would leave my 464 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:05,400 house for. But it is weird, isn't it. Like like the woman 465 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:09,519 who cut off the guy's penis became like a I'm going as icon. Yeah, 466 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:14,160 yeah, exactly. That's why she was being lauded, both Amanda Knox 467 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:16,599 and Loraina Bob. But we're being lauded at this event essentially as feminist icons. 468 00:33:17,759 --> 00:33:22,680 That's amazing. But also like, what was her name? Oh, 469 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,960 she grew up in my hometown, Amy Fisher, who who shot Joey Buttafucco's 470 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,640 wife. She was like, she was like this minor celebrity and then people, 471 00:33:30,759 --> 00:33:32,920 you know, she'd be on shows. I think she became a porn 472 00:33:34,079 --> 00:33:39,200 person. I don't know, but there is a weird subculture in celebrating these 473 00:33:39,319 --> 00:33:45,759 kind of weird and probably guilty and sometimes definitely guilty people as celebrities. It's 474 00:33:45,799 --> 00:33:51,839 just really weird. Well, and I think the female thing again, I 475 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:58,920 see it explained most often as women are like the most common victims of serial 476 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:05,079 killers and of the sort of true crime situations in general, whether it's serial 477 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:09,000 rapists or whatever, so they are therefore like most intrigued by it. But 478 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,679 I don't necessarily buy that. I mean, maybe that's some of it, 479 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,800 but I actually think where women really dominate is in true crime community. So 480 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:22,239 I don't know if you've watched the Golden State, killer doc on HBO about 481 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,960 Patton Oswalt's deceased wife, like late wife, it's really good. It's called 482 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,119 I'll Be Gone in the Dark. But she was working in a community mostly 483 00:34:30,159 --> 00:34:35,280 of other women, to unravel clues about this decades old murder. And you 484 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:39,960 know, a convention is people who are coming from forums, who are coming 485 00:34:40,039 --> 00:34:44,480 from you know, Facebook groups and Twitter communities, and you know, the 486 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:49,440 Idaho murders had this huge Facebook group that had huge Reddit pages of people that 487 00:34:49,559 --> 00:34:53,920 were working to nail down details. And I think basically there's just for some 488 00:34:54,119 --> 00:35:00,639 reason, women and maybe it's single women in their twenties and thirties, because 489 00:35:00,679 --> 00:35:04,079 I'll tell you that's the demographic that was at this convention. And by the 490 00:35:04,159 --> 00:35:06,760 way, David, that is the most serial killer thing that anyone has ever 491 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,159 said. The serial killer convention is the one thing that I would leave my 492 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:13,679 house for. Well, you know, I'm not leaving it to kill anyone. 493 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:20,280 I will say this, Uh, maybe women are just more Maybe they're 494 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,679 more empathetic towards the victims, and somehow, you know what I'm saying, 495 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:29,840 maybe they feel, you know, are more empathetic towards victims who want to 496 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:31,719 know more about serial killers. Maybe they want to know more about serial killers 497 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:37,679 because they feel more helpless in a way, you know, against because the 498 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:43,679 serial killers are almost always men, So maybe it helps them deal with that 499 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:45,960 sort of thing. I don't know exactly, but it would that would make 500 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,880 sense to me as well. Yeah, no, that's an interesting point. 501 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,239 And obviously I've been making fun of you for being a serial killer, Officianado, 502 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:58,840 but I'm I've probably exposed myself as somewhat of a killer Officionado. Yeah, 503 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:00,119 you sound you sound like you know more about this than I do. 504 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:07,800 I am a woman in my twenties and thirties without I don't say that in 505 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,159 a sad way, but I think there is something you know, you can 506 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:15,679 really be involved and thinking through this, and you know, women just like 507 00:36:15,079 --> 00:36:17,719 honestly, if you're not married, homeowner with a bunch of kids, you 508 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,679 have more time on your hand and time that you can spend watching TV doing 509 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:28,920 something that actually feels involved. You know, you feel like you're mentally working 510 00:36:29,039 --> 00:36:31,719 through something and you are involved, you know, in the greater American community. 511 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:36,519 So there's there's something about it that kind of brings you into the case. 512 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:38,239 So that again, that is my theory, and I kind of am 513 00:36:38,679 --> 00:36:44,079 the key demo. Yeah, I mean, let's be honest. Also, 514 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:49,760 it is the people who produce those shows and come up with them do a 515 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,360 good job of making it entertaining in the sense that there's a hook, a 516 00:36:53,519 --> 00:36:57,639 mystery, something that's going to be solved. You're going you know, you 517 00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:00,320 feel like there's going to be an ending and you're going to figure or something 518 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,800 at this like making making a murderer, or the hook was that the guy 519 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:07,239 had been falsely accused before, right, did he do it, you know? 520 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:12,840 Or was he just you know set up? Um? So there's there's 521 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,119 always that kind of hook, which makes it interesting to people and a lot 522 00:37:16,159 --> 00:37:20,400 of times more interesting. Real life is far more interesting than than movies, 523 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,400 and there are more movies about serial killers than they probably have ever been serial 524 00:37:23,519 --> 00:37:29,199 killers. So it's obviously something that In fact, I just mentioned seven by 525 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,719 David Fincher, which I think is like, oh seven, yeah, the 526 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:37,840 Brad pitt One Quiteth Paltrow. Yes, what's in the box that one? 527 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:45,039 Don't give it away. I won't give it away. But so I think 528 00:37:45,159 --> 00:37:49,840 there's there's that. For me, it's always I'd rather watch something or read 529 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:54,440 something that that actually happened and fit and something that's fictitious. So um, 530 00:37:55,159 --> 00:37:59,320 that's why I think I'm sort of drawn to it. But I know some 531 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:00,320 of them are pretty boring and some of them are great. You know. 532 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:04,719 I think making making a murder it was really interesting. Serial it was really 533 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,719 interesting, you know what. I didn't watch the one where the husband pushed 534 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:14,960 the wife down the stairs the staircase. That one is incredible. That is 535 00:38:15,039 --> 00:38:17,880 definitely one of the all time bests. So people want to know, right, 536 00:38:19,039 --> 00:38:22,440 it's a mystery, and that excites them. So I don't think that 537 00:38:22,559 --> 00:38:25,639 there's probably anything very much deeper than that. No, I agree with. 538 00:38:25,679 --> 00:38:29,360 I mean, I think there are probably other elements that play into it. 539 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:30,559 But at the end of the day, I mean, a good mystery is 540 00:38:30,639 --> 00:38:34,639 a good mystery, and there's you know, brings you in what you want 541 00:38:34,639 --> 00:38:38,159 to know the answer to these extremely serious and intriguing questions. Do you know 542 00:38:38,199 --> 00:38:42,239 how many Do you know how many people you need to kill to be considered 543 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:46,079 a serial killers? I thought it was more than three at different time periods, 544 00:38:46,119 --> 00:38:49,800 so like, not all in the same event. Look, not a 545 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:53,559 mass shooting or something like that. Right, Well, I actually wanted to 546 00:38:53,599 --> 00:38:58,000 ask you. This is in the serial killer case, but it's one that 547 00:38:58,039 --> 00:39:00,599 you actually this is when you were in Denver. I'm sure the listeners know 548 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:07,880 you just spent years as column wastund Denver. You covered the John Vany Ramsey 549 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:12,880 case actually, but pretty closely as well, and that was at an interesting 550 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,119 technological period to kind of the Oughts. You know, things were changing, 551 00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:20,440 but not quite social media changing, where you have all of these kind of 552 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,559 amateur internet slews piecing things together, and you were actually in the community. 553 00:39:23,679 --> 00:39:25,840 I could just tell us a little bit about what it was like to cover 554 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:30,280 that case. Well, yeah, so I actually got thereafter. But what 555 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:36,599 happened was every year or every couple of years, the case would be reopened 556 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:43,519 or a new suspect would come forward, and you know, everyone would get 557 00:39:43,559 --> 00:39:45,440 all excited about it. And I, you know, I was in contact 558 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:50,719 with people who had investigated that case. So I don't know if you remember. 559 00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:52,840 I think it was two thousand and eight. There was a guy named 560 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,760 John Mark Carr who was this weirdo living in Thailand who said he had done 561 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,599 it. And you know, so everyone's like, you see, we told 562 00:39:58,679 --> 00:40:01,400 you the Ramsies didn't do it. And remember the Denver Post sending reporters out 563 00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:05,480 to Thailand, and it turned out the guy was just a nut. Um. 564 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:12,840 I have a very strong belief, and I have this belief is based 565 00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,840 on speaking to people involved in the case and just reading through a lot of 566 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:20,960 the evidence and stuff like that, that that that John ben A Ramsey was 567 00:40:21,039 --> 00:40:25,400 killed by probably her mother but and you know, and or maybe the dad, 568 00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:30,079 and then it was covered up by them. I think almost every cop 569 00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:36,760 involved in in the case thought the same thing. A grand jury said, 570 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:38,719 you couldn't you know, as grand jury thought the same thing. But the 571 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:45,719 the DA at the time did not indict. All the evidence points to that 572 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:47,719 it's not really that big of a mystery, even though we keep pretending it 573 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:52,239 is. Um. That story, I think, and at the time it 574 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:57,840 happened in the late nineties, really fascinated people because John Bena was part of 575 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:02,519 this like um beauty queen child circuit thing you know, that was going on, 576 00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:07,360 and it was just very you know, I find that stuff disgusting. 577 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,239 I think it sexualizes children. I thought that then, I think, you 578 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:14,239 know, so this was like in the mid nineties, this very Clinton era 579 00:41:14,559 --> 00:41:16,960 story, you know, and the reaction it was kind of. I guess 580 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:22,000 the Internet was around sort of, but it's still pre Internet, but you 581 00:41:22,079 --> 00:41:25,800 know, it just it was when cable news had really come into its own, 582 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:29,519 so it was on like in a loop all the time. It was 583 00:41:29,599 --> 00:41:31,960 one of those stories, the first stories that you know, was just bombarded 584 00:41:32,039 --> 00:41:36,559 with and the Boulder police, you know, you know, they were just 585 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:42,199 incompetent. They let neighbors and everyone step all over the evidence. Boulders a 586 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,800 very left wing town, and then a lot of the das that came later 587 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:50,960 wanted to protect the Ramsey family. But I mean, I've written if anyone's 588 00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,239 interesting at the Federalist, I wrote a long piece on it and why I 589 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:58,039 thought I think that she was well, I think she was guilty, and 590 00:41:58,079 --> 00:42:00,840 they could read through it if they like, And obviously I'd be happy to 591 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:06,119 talk about that or answer questions on that, but if anyone wants wants to 592 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:10,239 discuss it's one of my favorite topics. No. I recently read your really 593 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:15,199 long piece on that, and you have a couple of them on making a 594 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:16,679 murder as well, and I think you did one on Cereal too, And 595 00:42:17,039 --> 00:42:21,320 I just kind of went down the Harsawi true crime rabbit hole recently, And 596 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,880 I have to say, David, you're pretty good at the true gram coverage. 597 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:28,920 I feel like you've you've been doing it long enough that you kind of 598 00:42:29,039 --> 00:42:34,119 know the blueprint of what to look at and questions to ask. And I 599 00:42:34,199 --> 00:42:36,920 gotta say I find it pretty helpful. So if people do have questions, 600 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:40,639 they should submit them so that you can force Molly to talk about these cases 601 00:42:40,679 --> 00:42:45,400 with you. Yeah. Absolutely, I remember. It's my problem with Cereal 602 00:42:45,559 --> 00:42:47,400 was I thought it was just a setup to try to free him, you 603 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:51,440 know, the guy who you know. It just had all these big giant 604 00:42:51,519 --> 00:42:54,079 holes, the ram, the making a murder thing. I don't I don't 605 00:42:54,079 --> 00:42:58,320 really even remember exactly what happened there, but I remember everyone was really mad. 606 00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:00,519 I think that that piece I wrote on it one of them. I 607 00:43:00,599 --> 00:43:05,480 think it was Steve Avery as Guilty as Hell was like one of my most 608 00:43:05,599 --> 00:43:09,239 red pieces in my career, in my twenty year career, God like millions 609 00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:13,199 of hits. People were really angry. I don't think I've ever gotten more 610 00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:17,440 mail on a piece, except maybe for when I read about Disney So Disney 611 00:43:17,519 --> 00:43:22,360 princesses. So the Yeah, I enjoy it. I'm really big on the 612 00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:28,559 Ramsey case, because it's just maybe because I have my own kids and they 613 00:43:28,599 --> 00:43:30,559 were young when I was really getting into it, and I just thought that 614 00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:35,280 everyone had been that Boulder was just so corrupt, you know, I worked 615 00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,840 there, and that the parents were so evil, and I don't know, 616 00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:42,800 it got under my skin, and you know, it was also it was 617 00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,480 a mystery still and that's you know, so that's what pulled me in, 618 00:43:46,679 --> 00:43:51,519 and I think that's probably pulls in most people on all these cases. No, 619 00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:53,639 I agree with that. And before I let you go, David, 620 00:43:53,679 --> 00:43:58,679 I want to ask this. This appears to potentially be another twenty three AM 621 00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:00,480 case, at least that's what billy And has speculated. And you know, 622 00:44:00,559 --> 00:44:06,159 when you find out after a long time they have DNA evidence that implicates someone. 623 00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:08,000 These days, it does seem like it's possible to coming back to twenty 624 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:14,960 three and me or one of the other gene the genetic testing places that will 625 00:44:15,039 --> 00:44:17,760 sometimes give government access. And this is probably the one political part of this 626 00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:21,719 conversation we're going to have, but I wanted to ask you, as you 627 00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:25,199 know, a small government guide, that stuff freaks me out. The idea 628 00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:30,559 that all of these people without your consent because they're and somehow they're somehow related 629 00:44:30,599 --> 00:44:37,159 to you have have uploaded genetic material that comes back to you into a database 630 00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:42,280 that has I would say, all too often cooperated with the government. At 631 00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:45,360 the same time, you know, there's an amazing argument for how this brings 632 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:51,639 people to justice. What are your thoughts on this sort of evolving tech when 633 00:44:51,679 --> 00:44:55,039 it comes to solving crimes. It's a really interesting question. I'm still kind 634 00:44:55,079 --> 00:44:59,599 of working through it in my own mind. I you know, if you're 635 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:05,239 listen, if you're if you're catching serial killers with this technology, and you're 636 00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:09,559 catching killers in general with this technology and rapists with this technology, it's not 637 00:45:09,679 --> 00:45:13,920 all bad. There's something good here that's good. I don't want rapists and 638 00:45:14,039 --> 00:45:16,599 killers and serial killers walking around in society, and they deserve to be caught. 639 00:45:17,159 --> 00:45:22,719 Obviously. There's the other aspect of this, where people are have this 640 00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:27,880 most intimate, the most intimate information about you that can exist. I mean 641 00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:30,840 they can, you know, it can look at it and tell you what 642 00:45:31,039 --> 00:45:34,639 diseases you may have, you know, and then things like that in the 643 00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:39,199 future. So that is problematic. I I really don't know how to how 644 00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:44,159 to deal with it, because you're you share DNA with others generally, and 645 00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:46,559 it's going to be very hard to govern something, you know, to govern 646 00:45:46,679 --> 00:45:50,039 that because if you don't want your DNA out there, but you do have 647 00:45:50,119 --> 00:45:52,000 a brother or you know, whoever who is out there and doesn't care, 648 00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:54,719 it's going to be very difficult to govern. So I don't, I don't, 649 00:45:55,039 --> 00:45:57,920 I don't know. I don't really have an answer for it. It 650 00:45:58,159 --> 00:46:00,440 is terrifying in a way. And like other things, like I am not 651 00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:05,400 like AI, for instance, I am not one of these people who's that 652 00:46:05,559 --> 00:46:08,039 nervous about it. I think that every with every kind of new technology like 653 00:46:08,159 --> 00:46:12,039 this, there's going to be some very good things that happen and some bad 654 00:46:12,119 --> 00:46:15,400 things that happen, and it's difficult to navigate. And I think, you 655 00:46:15,159 --> 00:46:22,800 know, it works itself at to some extent. But I do obviously do 656 00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:28,400 not appreciate the way the government believes it has a right to all this kind 657 00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,840 of information without any kind of due process, which often happens, and that's 658 00:46:31,079 --> 00:46:36,000 I think the first place to look and fix. Well, the question of 659 00:46:36,079 --> 00:46:39,800 due process is sort of difficult when you haven't consensually allowed these databases to have 660 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:45,440 your genetic material A relative of yours has, So it's like, how do 661 00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:51,519 you even go a rout obtaining due process from somebody who hasn't consentially uploaded that 662 00:46:51,679 --> 00:46:54,679 information. It's just a weird, weird, weird state of affairs. And 663 00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:57,719 they're all, I mean, actually, if you combine it with AI, 664 00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:02,599 because I am an AI panic person, when you combine AI in another type 665 00:47:02,599 --> 00:47:07,519 of pandemic situation, you say, these people look at this scrape of genetic 666 00:47:07,599 --> 00:47:12,920 material, So these people are most prone to spreading COVID. You know, 667 00:47:13,199 --> 00:47:16,440 for some reason, genetically we can determine these people are most prone to spreading 668 00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:24,199 COVID or whatever the whatever the disease or a bioweapon is in this hypothetical scenario, 669 00:47:25,079 --> 00:47:30,480 and we're just going to isolate people with this genetic material based on our 670 00:47:30,519 --> 00:47:34,440 access to these databases. That's extreme. I know it sounds extreme, but 671 00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,880 a lot of what we thought, you know, under emergency circumstances during COVID 672 00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:42,400 was normal. We look back on just a couple years later as what on 673 00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,320 earth we're we thinking? So anyway, I find it pretty terrifying, just 674 00:47:45,599 --> 00:47:52,599 when you imagine the possible hypotheticals. Yeah, this is obviously why it's incredibly 675 00:47:52,679 --> 00:47:58,360 important to protect the individual rights of Americans against any kind of you know, 676 00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:04,719 coersion or Polish and no matter what kind of technology you know, initiates the 677 00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:07,800 you know, the common good argument for doing things like that. But anyway, 678 00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:14,599 um we go again, David Harsani acting like every National Conservatist is Adrian 679 00:48:14,679 --> 00:48:20,199 Vermuel. We've reached that portion of the podcast. Yeah, not every most 680 00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:22,199 are too close. I think you actually read too much into that. I 681 00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:25,840 don't. I think you know, for me, the COVID thing was not 682 00:48:27,039 --> 00:48:30,440 driven by National Conservatives at all. I mean it was driven by the left. 683 00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:37,119 The left is far more inclined to to demand some kind of communal you 684 00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:43,719 know, authoritarian or I should say, like rationalized authoritarian actions to communal actions 685 00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:46,840 like you know, communal responsibility. You know what I'm saying. Like, 686 00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:51,079 so the common good thing is used by the left. I mean, it 687 00:48:51,199 --> 00:48:54,599 wasn't Nat cons was shutting down churches and businesses. So I was gonna say, 688 00:48:54,599 --> 00:49:00,440 I just I think Adrian Vermuel defended um mandates and whatever else, And 689 00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:05,159 yeah, the invocation of common good. He's a fascist, so of course 690 00:49:05,199 --> 00:49:10,599 he did, because you know, fascist and fascists and communists or far left 691 00:49:10,639 --> 00:49:15,719 and far right or have a quite a lot in common in process or in 692 00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:19,199 what they think the state should be able to do, even though their goals 693 00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:21,599 are often different. But anyway, we don't want to go down that road 694 00:49:21,639 --> 00:49:24,119 again, but we probably should do one. I was gonna say, we 695 00:49:24,119 --> 00:49:29,599 should do one podcast at some point where you and I, who I think 696 00:49:29,679 --> 00:49:32,800 agree on probably nine percent of everything, but come down on different sides, 697 00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:36,880 like I signed up nat Con statement and you signed the Freedom Con Statement. 698 00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:38,920 We probably should do a podcast where we just dive in all of that. 699 00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:45,480 Yeah. Now, my own views on liberalism, small liberalism and all that 700 00:49:45,599 --> 00:49:47,639 is something I really feel like I might be an efficient auto on, so 701 00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:52,880 I'd be happy to do that more than even serial killers. But I quickly 702 00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:54,480 want to say that there was a piece by Mark Anderson, who's this. 703 00:49:54,679 --> 00:49:58,639 I think he's a kind of an investor, tech guy maybe or something. 704 00:49:58,679 --> 00:50:00,639 I forget exactly what he does, but it's called why AI Will Save the 705 00:50:00,679 --> 00:50:04,119 World, and it's really an interesting piece. I mean, I think he 706 00:50:05,119 --> 00:50:09,280 he's far too positive about all of it, but it's just an interesting counterpoint 707 00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:15,079 to most of the panic I think in society in general. Going back forever, 708 00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:21,719 New technologies are always daunting and scary to people because of you know, 709 00:50:22,199 --> 00:50:24,320 because we don't fully understand what it will do when it will not. And 710 00:50:24,519 --> 00:50:31,519 typically these technologies are how can I say, people overpromise and then everyone gets 711 00:50:31,559 --> 00:50:36,599 scared by them. So so I'm usually skeptical about that. And that's just 712 00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:38,039 why I want to say that. You know, I'm not yet a panicking 713 00:50:38,119 --> 00:50:45,159 about AI because medically and in other areas of science, I think that it 714 00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:49,079 can provide great benefit to people as well, you know what I mean. 715 00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:54,480 So I forgot what I forgot what the topic was that started us allia that 716 00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:58,719 the twenty three and stuff. Yeah, the DNA stuff. Well, no, 717 00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:00,519 I agree. I mean I think it's like I think we're having this 718 00:51:00,559 --> 00:51:05,400 conversation our staff chat about a roma swami and fanol subsidies. I feel like 719 00:51:05,599 --> 00:51:07,559 the big, the easiest layup that I don't see a lot of people in 720 00:51:07,599 --> 00:51:12,960 the sort of net com camp making enough is you know, it's like it 721 00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:16,880 freaked out about COVID. Well, big government gives you everything. I mean, 722 00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:21,280 we had osha. We laid the groundwork for that over decades of expanding 723 00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:24,280 the administrative states. So a lot of us it's like pharma. So everyone 724 00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:28,960 hates big Farma. I get it, you know, for compelling people to 725 00:51:29,039 --> 00:51:34,320 take shots basically through the federal government forcing companies, forcing states to force companies, 726 00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:37,320 so on. So to me, the answer to that is get the 727 00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:40,760 government out of the farma business. I mean, I'm a fan of big 728 00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:45,679 farma. Big farmers saved millions of lives over the past decades. There are 729 00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:49,480 it alleviates pain for people, it does all these good things. It does 730 00:51:49,559 --> 00:51:52,000 bad things as well, and it wants to make money in a profit margin 731 00:51:52,119 --> 00:51:55,440 is how you do it. So disconnect those things don't make government even stronger. 732 00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:00,840 The idea that the right wing, which I think especial people who are 733 00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:04,960 religious or socially conservative, are going to have the power to control that giant 734 00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:08,960 bureaucracy is insane. They will not. There is There's no way, even 735 00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:14,519 when you had your president there right, you could not control these these agencies 736 00:52:14,519 --> 00:52:17,440 and institutions. What makes anyone think you're going to change that? For me, 737 00:52:17,639 --> 00:52:23,119 I've become more I hate to use the word libertarian because it's been co 738 00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:28,360 opted by people who just want everyone to be you know, just want giant 739 00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:31,239 orgies across with you. People using Heroin and DC, although you did use 740 00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:35,480 the term sex worker earlier, which is a very libertarian thing to do. 741 00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:38,880 I know, I was kind of joking because I wanted to say prostitutes, 742 00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:40,880 and I'm like, am I allowed to say that anymore? I don't know. 743 00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:44,760 I just some of these debates I don't want to even be pulled into, 744 00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:47,360 like the debate over how to refer to whorrors. Not just kidding, 745 00:52:49,079 --> 00:52:57,199 but yeah, yeah, so I just make it a point there, But 746 00:52:58,079 --> 00:53:00,280 I don't like to be told what words I can use. That, so 747 00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:05,000 I regret using sex workers actually right now that you mentioned it. Yeah, 748 00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:07,440 no, it's as long as Joy doesn't listen, you'll be okay. Or 749 00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:12,519 colleague Joy Pullman, who is a very firm style guide for federalists on sex 750 00:53:12,599 --> 00:53:15,559 workers versus prostitutes? Do you do you curse? Like? Can you curse 751 00:53:15,639 --> 00:53:19,239 on this podcast? Or no? Can you? Will you beep it out? 752 00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:22,960 Well? Anyway, I used a word that was really bad in a 753 00:53:22,039 --> 00:53:25,599 piece and I and Molly told me someone was angry about it, and I 754 00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:30,119 think it was Joy. It probably was. But you can, I think 755 00:53:30,159 --> 00:53:36,639 on the podcast. My rule is you can, but just not sort of 756 00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:43,639 indulgently frivolously right exactly. So, just like if you're quoting someone or if 757 00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:46,079 there's a need for it, I'm actually pro cursing in general. I think 758 00:53:46,119 --> 00:53:50,519 that it has its place when you really want to emphasize something, for instance, 759 00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:52,480 or sometimes you want to call person a name, and the best way 760 00:53:52,559 --> 00:53:55,599 to do that is to use some kind of you know, curse. But 761 00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:00,199 you know, I've been trained not to do it when I have a microphone 762 00:54:00,199 --> 00:54:02,679 in front of me. Yeah, that's probably for the best. Well, 763 00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:07,559 this conversation took a fascinating turn at multiple times of the course of the last 764 00:54:07,639 --> 00:54:13,679 hour, my colleague, Now I know why you and Molly have so much 765 00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:17,000 fun. I'm so glad to have been joined for this edition of Federalist Radio, 766 00:54:17,199 --> 00:54:21,480 the Summer Friday edition by my colleague, senior editor at The Federalist, 767 00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:25,480 David Harsani. David, thank you so much for actually coming on twice doing 768 00:54:25,519 --> 00:54:29,760 double duty this week. Always a pleasure. Thanks for having me. You've 769 00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:32,360 been listening to another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily Jasinski, 770 00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:36,400 culture editor here at The Federalist. We'll be back soon with more. Until 771 00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:45,639 then, be lovers of freedom and anxious for the first I heard a fame 772 00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:51,039 by the reason. And then