You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network, the best in paranormal talk radio
in the UK and around the world. Welcome to the Paranormal Pendal Podcast,
coming to you from the heart of Pendle, Witch Country in the northwest of
England. My name is Craig Bryant, author, investigator and collector of stories.
Join me as we take a journey into the paranormal, UFO sightings,
cryptozoology and big casts. This is the Paranoral Pendal Podcast. Welcome to episode
forty four of Paranormal Pendle, broadcasting to the Paranormal UK Network at PAUK radio
dot com. So this is the first episode of twenty twenty four, so
very big, happy new you to all all my listeners. Thanks very much
for sticking with me over the last couple of years, and let's hope we
have some really interesting guests coming up in twenty twenty four. I've got a
fantastic guest for this episode, a gentleman by the name of Michael Cameron.
Michael is an author who's written a book called High Strangeness, A Lifetime of
Alien and Paranormal Encounters. So I'm really looking forward to chatting. Welcome Michael,
thanks for coming along. Oh there, yeah, thanks for inviting me
on, no problem, No, you're very welcome. So yeah, so
we'll talk about you shortly, but if you could just let's just start off
by just telling us a little bit of about yourself. Well, I grew
up in there. I grew up in the East End of London during the
nineteen seventies. I grew up in a strict Roman Catholic family, Irish family,
and I actually grew up in a schoolhouse. My dad had been a
caretaker there and me and my in the being a schoolkeeper at the school.
In the house I grew up in. Yeah, and this is where basically
a lot of the activity took place during my childhood and early teenage years.
Okay, so what sort of activity were you we subjected to them? Well,
when I was a baby, my parents, you know, my parents
did tell me a few things. But when I was a baby, literally
I was an unexpected child. And when I returned from I'd been in hospital
along time. I've been born premature. But when I returned to what would
be my you know, my home, and there was a there was a
lot of activity that took place after I returned to the house. It was
so like poltergeist type activity. My you know, there were being cold spots,
the usual stuff cold spots in the house. There would be objects moving
and vanishing and reappearing in different places to the house. My brothers, I
got three brothers. Two of them are a lot older than me, and
Sean, who's mentioned in the book is two years older than me. But
with my other two brothers, you know, they experienced different types of things.
Like one of them had what would being an oak wardrobe in the room
pushed on top of him whilst he was in bed. Wow, okay,
but he wasn't injured. He was just shot. My other brother, Kevin,
had been, as an example, been coming up the stairs one day
something pushed past him he couldn't see, knocking down the stairs. And my
mum used to when she used to be in their house on her own,
she used to be saying upstairs, sometimes clinging, and she would feel some
presence behind her, and you know, like when your airs in the back
of your head. Her neck and something used to be calling the name all
the time, and when she turned around there was nobody there. You know.
This used to go on quite a while with her when she was alone,
and there was this as well when my when my dad used to go
up to bed, you know, the last one up in bed and getting
into bed, there used to be this unusual like echo like banging sound which
was coming from downstairs where the stairs on the staircase and in the house where
I grew up, the walls there, you know, there were solid so
when someone when there was banging was having me, it was echoing, you
know, and it was sort of like a you know, the stereo sound
effect. And whenever, whenever he went down he went to investigate, there
was nothing there, you know. And it was only much later on that
they you know, he after much activity and the activity started to get more
menacing that he you know, he then spoke to the church and they had
priests come in and blessed their house. But one of the things is that
what he told me is is that that my mum and dad they used to
see balls of light, you know, I guess what would be orbs now
flying around where my cot was. And also that they saw also what would
be, you know, some type of being standing over my cot looking down
at me. And when they when it actually seeing them and you know,
it vanished. So what what did your parents? What what did your parents
think about this then? Because obviously I mean you said that you grew up
in a very religious house. Uh so how did this affect your parents and
how did it affect their faith? Well, the thing is they were strict
to Roman Catholics. My dad was a Grand Nights templar as well. Okay,
so you know, and there was a lot he was associated with a
lot of high level freemasons in the police and the military as well. So
you know, in the house when I was growing up, a lot of
the people that would visit in my house at the time, they were iranked
police officers with the Metropolitan Police in London, and also specific military people and
also levels of the church, you know, like cardinals and so forth.
So he was quite friendly with these type of people. But the but when
I was then researching, you know, the area of where, you know,
I find some interest in stuff like underneath the grounds the blueprints of what
would be you know, the school itself, there was actually in the you
know, it is actually on the site of an ancient a Roman burial site
for leopards. So they so they actually they took them out of where what
would been the Roman buildings or the walls, and they chucked them out and
put them in this location and buried them there, which which actually was the
location of where my house was built. But also in this area of London,
it was actually where the Blitz, A lot of the Blitz took place,
so the Germans the Blue literally the whole lot of this area up.
So there was a lot of I guess a lot of you know, a
lot of destruction happened in this area as well. Yeah, you know,
which you often find with these type of locations. Yeah, yeah, I
mean it's interesting, isn't it that. I mean they used to they used
to have huge pits, didn't they wear the use something. It was the
same with the plague. They just used to bury them outside of the city
walls, didn't they in huge communal graves. So you found out literally that
the school would where you grew up, or a schoolhouse where you grew up
was actually built on one of these one of these old Leper burial grounds.
Yeah, it was, I mean, the old the area itself you know
had I mean where I grew up. It was in between literally the Tower
of London and the City of London. So in the Tower of London.
You know, there's a lot of Roman sites, so that, you know,
when I was growing up as a child as well, I remember that,
you know, we had the you know, the the archaeologists they're digging
up areas on the ground and you could they were finding Roman coins and you
know, pottery. So so there's a lot of history in this particular area
of London. And did you as you got older then, I mean,
how how old were you when you sort of stopped living there? Did you
did you see anything yourself as you grew up or experienced everything anything yourself?
Yeah, Well, I'm you know, I'm an alien abductee. My abduction
started when I was a baby. Literally, these particular beings what we now
know is a great from as Grace. They were actually taking me when I
was a baby. I mean, I discover I've discovered much more information about
my childhood now. And I was taken quite a lot as a child and
as a teenager. I had, you know, when I was four years
old, I had encounters with the men in black after aciting. I mean
I had when I was a child, I had, you know, what
would be I thought at the time was invisible friends or my parents were invisible
friends that used to come h to see me. You know, there was
a lot of times when I would see these particular beings that these beings I
now know to be like Nordic types, you know, the typical blonde,
their athletic type builds, blue eyed, side cheek bones. So I used
to have a lot of sightings of these particular beings. I remember they used
to come to me, and a lot of the time they used to be
talking talking to me, but I wasn't talking with their mouse. I didn't
know at the time what they were, you know, who they were,
and I used to I remember I used to be going to my parents a
lot and telling them, you know, that something had happened to me.
I remember once being what would be downstairs in the living room. My mum
was in the kitchen preparing lunch, and I remember having this overwhelming feeling,
you know, in my head. When I was I remember playing with the
match box toys, you know, on the carpet, and I heard this
feeling that I must, I must go upstairs, you know, I must
go upstairs to my parents room. And then, you know, at first
I didn't take no notice of it. But then it was got stronger feeling,
and I put my toys down and I ventured up the staircase to my
parents room. When I got there, there was nobody there, by this
feeling that I, you know, I must stay there, I shouldn't leave
because someone would come. And it was only a few, I guess,
a few moments that one of these particular beings that I see all the time,
which he was normally accompanied by a female who looked similar but obviously male
and female, and he came to me, and I remember him, you
know. He was a lot taller as well than the adults around me,
and he was dressed normally in what he would normally bear, which was this
type of blue uniform which was almost fitted to his body. And he he
leaned down into me, staring into my eyes, and I remember him speaking
to me, as I mentioned in my book. I don't remember what he
said, but it felt like to some degree, he was talking to another
part of me that understood this information but not this but not me, yeah,
you know, And I remember just looking at him, but I remember
also experiencing something, you know, like Jenny Randall's describes as the os factor.
So the environment around me it began to vanish, and it seemed like
we were just in a bubble, me and him, you know, like
a vacuum, and it was just a space between me and him and whatever
communication was taking place, because the rest of the room seemed to move away
from us. But I remember it's almost like being in a trance like state,
or an ordered state of consciousness entering into But I remember that when they
come out of this state, he wasn't there. I remember being extremely afraid
and I felt, you know, something had happened. I didn't remember what
it was at the time, and I remember running away from the room in
terror, and I remember running downstairs, almost falling over myself, and I
remember running to the kitchen and telling my mum that something had happened. But
my parents were used to, you know, they were used to me going
to them telling them things like this. So did they just think that you
had a very sort of active imagination then, or or do you think that
they thought that there was obviously some elements of truth in what you were saying,
because obviously they'll have been living with with the paranoimal stuff that have been
going on. So do you think they were all so orten to what you
were telling them about about the aliens that you were encountering. Well, you
know, in the earlier in the earlier years, it was me and Seawan.
Now me and Sean had a few of these experiences together, you know,
with what would be the Grays and you know, the sighting of a
UFO in London. But my mom and dad did experience stuff themselves, you
know before you know, when they you know, my mom told me a
little later of something that happened to her during war during World War two,
and you know, this would what would be described as an encounter with one
of the Grays. So I think she was an abductee, which she didn't
understand it or didn't realize that she was. And my dad had My dad
was in the Royal Air Force, you know, he was a flight engineer
during World War two and he he had the experiences as himself which would border
along the paranormal. So so you know, there were activities that they had.
I mean, they didn't speak about everything every now and again, you
know, they would bring up stuff and just to addit, you know,
throw it in somewhere and and tell me certain things that had happened to them.
But I think you know, at the time, you know, people
would often ask me, you know that, do you think they knew what
was going on? And you know, did they understand it? But I
don't think they did understand it. I think they knew things were happening to
me, but they didn't understand what it was. Probably sorry, probably didn't
know how to you know, how do you? How do you? That's
what I think. Yeah, I was just going to say, I mean,
really it was sort of before UFOs and abductee cases, Yeah, were
sort of more prevalent in the press, wasn't it so during I mean,
you know, the Second World War was obviously before Roswell, which you know,
to me was a big turning point I think in the study of alien
abductees and ups and UFOs, and then obviously subsequently there's been you know,
very famous cases since then. But I think during the Second World War and
before the Second World War, people just didn't have the same sort of understanding
about what these things were as we do now. Yeah, that's right.
I mean the thing is, you know, back then, it was in
the nineteen seventies, and you know, even you know, some people say
to me, you know about it because I grew up in a very religious,
you know family. But you know, my days, you know,
my days, most of my days were spent in the school, and you
know, we had lots of religious education, either that or we had I
was at the church. You know, we did a lot of stuff.
I grew up. I was taught by nuns and priests. So so the
church was just up the road and we were always in the church, and
Sundays we were at the church. You know, it's just a family thing.
And in the community itself. It was a strict Irish again religious community.
Everyone knew everyone and everything, which you know, everything even socially,
was involved with religion. You know, people will say to me, you
know, if you know, if it wasn't illusion or you were just seeing
things, why wasn't you seeing anything to do with Jesus or the Virgin Mary?
You know. So, and you know, during the seventies, we
we didn't have any cond We didn't have any you know, we had three
channels on the TV, which was controlled by the parents, you know,
were the children were the remote control. You know, I remember it well,
So we were you know, so we were kneeling down, and then
we had to change the channels for our parents, you know, for Crossroads
or something like that, and the crypto factor, and you know, so
there was But also because we didn't watch the TV, we didn't have any
contact with anything what would be I guess associated with this type of phenomena or
subjects, you know. So and even like with sci fi, we didn't
have contact with sci fi in our household. You know, it's just because
we wasn't allowed to watch the TV and it was with our parents, and
what they allowed us to watch was free you know, we're free channels.
It wasn't much so so you know, so this type of phenomena presented itself
to us, you know, to me at a very very young age.
And you know, for a lot of the time I was confused. I
didn't know what was going on. So you didn't you didn't watch I mean
obviously sound like you sort of grew up in Samira that I did. I
mean, I remember watching Space nineteen ninety nine and UFO and obviously Doctor Who
and that sort of thing. So you you didn't watch those sorts of programs
because basically your parents didn't watch them, and so you you and your brothers
were just sort of watching what your parents were watching. Yeah, most of
the time. Yeah, I mean, you know, my parents didn't really
watch anything like that, but you know, it was again, it was
very strict with My parents were really strict. My dad was really strict.
And you know, in my book, I talk about my relationship with my
dad, and my book's pretty much like a memoir as well, you know,
just talking about my relationship with my dad and how difficult that was,
and you know, you know, and that you know, I spoke about
how I was a frightened with my dad. You know. So it's a
it's a mix, you know, between my life growing up as a child
in's seventies and as a teenager and my relationships and struggles in that. Yeah.
Yeah, I mean there was sort of our our parents were brought up
in a different era, weren't they their parents behaving a different way to to
certainly, you know, to the way that I behave with with my son.
But that's just of I think, you know, as as people and
as parents, we've just we've just got better, I think over the years,
and we're not we're not in that same environment that sort of pre war
environment where there was a lot of hardship and a lot of social social hardship
and degradation, which I think, you know, sort of contributed a lot
to it. You mentioned about these aliens. Were you ever actually physically abducted
and taken to an alien craft? Then well, I had a lot of
missing time, so I would imagine something that did happen with that. I
mean, me and Sean, you know, we were There was one time
we were playing out on the grass in the see my house was in the
grounds of the school itself, so I remember in the summer holidays, you
know, when you know, we had six weeks the school was closed,
but my dad would be in school and with the clingers, you know,
making sure it's claimed for when they do return, and me and Sean was
on the grass, which was just outside their house itself, kicking the ball
around, and at one time, you know, Sean said, why don't
we go for you know, a stroll around the school ground. So okay,
this was a working week, by the way, So in the immediate
area, just around the outside of the school grounds, there was lots of
warehouses. There was a large, a large police station that's still there.
To this day, which is always busy, and so people were going about
their daily tasks. And I remember me and Sean walking, which would be
we went down the grass, which was a slope ill, and we walked
past the I remember the outside toilets, and we turned into where the the
you know, the library and the school hall would be and two of the
school classrooms, the junior infant classrooms, and there was like a concrete staircase
that went up to like a platform, and then another platform, and then
you reached the school hall, and I remember being Sean went up to the
first staircase and up onto the platform, and I was just down below.
I remember the stairs, and I remember I was kneeling down looking at fire
ants, you know, the red ants, and just just looking at them,
and so ed my back to him and couched down and was looking at
them, and I remember Sean then calling out to me and he said,
what's that? What say? Is it? What is it? And then
when I turned around and I looked to where he was standing, he was
pointing up in the sky. And I remember walking up the staircase looking sort
of in the direction of where he was pointing, and I could see then
in the sky above there was this metallic object, you know, and it
looked like what we now know to be like a flying saucer or disc.
So it's very shiny, but I think that's where the sun was shining off
its metallic surface, and it seemed to be coming closer to us, you
know. But as it was getting closer, I remember I went into we
both went into, you know, a trance like state again, you know,
being being like a you know, the os factor type. And I
remember everything around us, the sounds, you know, what we could hear
days all vanished and we were just standing staring at this object. But then
after you know, I don't know many minutes or you know, there was
time that went past, and I remember when I come out of my whatever
I bring in, this object had gone and I looked across as Sean and
he was still in this trance like state, you know, just staring into
space, and I was calling out his name, Sean, Sean, Sean,
you know, and he wasn't responding. But then when I continued to
call, he suddenly snapped out of it. But you know, the first
thing I remember that again, like with the Nordic in the bedroom, something
had happened. I didn't know what it was. My heart was pounding,
and I felt I felt fear. I felt something had happened. I just
didn't know what it was. And I remember then just taking off, you
know, running to go back to the house and to find my mom and
dad to tell them. And I remember Sean was behind me and we were
running, but I also remember just looking up at the sky searching for this
object and they couldn't see anything. But then I remember just we just slammed
into the door, you know, startling my parents. My dad scolded us,
scaring mom because they were in the kitchen having a bite to eat and
didn't expect us to be doing that. And I remember we both, you
know, telling at the same time our parents that something had happened, and
you know, their only response was I remember, they just looked at each
other casually, didn't say a word, and just my dad just said,
just go off, go back to what you were doing, but stay post
their house. They could see us, so there was nothing else said.
But you know, much later on though, when I was talking to my
older with my older brothers, you know, they did say that Mum and
Dad used to talk about the experiences that we had and the experiences that I
continue to have in private, but because they were older, I guess they
were allowed to listen. Yeah. So did you fail there was any missing
time then in that particular instance, do you think? Yeah? There were
there was. I think there was like a you know, I don't think
it was a considerable amount, but there was some sort of missing active missing
time. But when that took place, but a lot of a lot what
it seemed to be as well, there were a lot of the abductions that
I had as a child and as a teenager, would what I would be
out of the body, right, Yeah, so where you're taken out of
the body, you know, And I mean there are been cases where people
you know, in you know, I guess in the fifties and the sixties
had these particular experiences where they see themselves still sat in the car whiles they
were moving up towards an object. So this would be then an out of
body experience. Yeah, that's interesting that. So what did your brother think
of all these these things that were happening. Well, you know what,
when me and Sean, you know, we didn't we you know, we
split, we we didn't well, I've not spoken to Sean in like literally
four decades, but there was a time I managed to get in touch with
him, and I did have a brief moment when I was writing my book.
I had a brief moment to speak to him about things, because I
obviously wanted to ask him if I could put his name in the book.
And he said I could, and you know, just out of a common
courtesy and respect. And I did ask him, and I said, Sean,
I said, you remember when we were children and that time we saw
and he said to me, you know, he took me words out of
my mouth. What the that, you know? Metallic craft? And so
he remembered it. And then I said yeah, and I said, do
you remember when we were in the school or you know, in the school
itself and we had an encounter with a tall gray that appeared to us and
we had missed some time then And he said, yeah, he says he
remembers it. And he went on then to describe it. But when he
was talking to me, it felt like at one time I said, describe
it in my book. It felt like at one time he'd probably questioned it
over the years, did it happen did it take place? Was it my
imagination? But obviously it wasn't because I was with him when it happened,
so, you know, I was able to describe everything, and he was
able to describe it and also finish my sentences, so he knew, you
know. And then when I told him that Kevin, you know, one
of my eldest brothers, he described when I was writing the book that you
know, the parents spoke about it. He remembers it. He remembers the
conversation, to remembers us going to our parents telling them about it. So
it was talked about still in the house. So it wasn't just like,
you know, one of us having these experiences. It was obviously shared between
me and Sean. And have these experiences sort of followed you through life?
Do you still have these episodes? Well, I was having them in my
teenage years, and I was having them, you know, I'm fifty five
now, so I was having them as a you know, a young adult.
And one of the things is as well, what I didn't realize is
that this thing follows you, you know, because when I left when I
you know, my dad died when I was fifteen in an expected art attack.
And died, but you know, I was having There was lots of
things happening after he died, and I was having a lot more contact with
these particular beings, you know, the grades, But it was happening,
you see. I don't know if it continued to happen for Sewan because we
didn't have a really good relationship. I'm not sure if my relationship broke up
because of the experiences that we had. I don't know if he blamed me
for those experiences. I'm not sure. But you know, the apparent want
alien type activities did kind of accelerate more when my dad died, and you
know, some of them were a lot of the activity that I had as
child and as a teenager. It wasn't good in the hands of these particular
beings. I mean, in now I have complex PTSD, so I was
diagnosed with that last year. And this is as I describe it's to do
with a lot of the childhood, the experiences I had with these particular beings.
You know, I have fragmented memories, but in my book, I
do have a lot of details of what I do remember, but I also
point out there are experiences that I don't remember you know, so, and
you know, I do explain that in the book. But going forward,
I do you know, I have had I have had as an adult experiences
again abduction experiences with these particular beings. And again you know, they are
they're not physical, They're outside of the body, right, So I'm being
moved outside of the body because as a child I always had the ability as
well to do this, and the ability to move outside the body. I
can do I can do you know, remote viewing, and you know,
it's only it wasn't long ago that I've come to the realization that I can
do that, you know. But but so, but you know, if
had speriences with shadow people, you know, with what would be I guess,
you know, like the whole hag. You know, I had some
traumatic experiences with this particular entity when I was sixteen years old, which was
would border upon rape, really sexual sexual assault, which basically still affects me
to this day. I'm quite I find it really difficult to sometimes talk about
that because of what happened. I was I was literally awake when it happened,
and she would she would come to me regularly and I couldn't do nothing
about it. I couldn't move. And I've had you know, I have
a lot of I've had encounters recently with the creatures what you know, would
you call the suskbast creatures. I'm not familiar. I'm not familiar with none.
No, So I had something recently, lich was literally a few days
ago, with these particular entities. But you know, because of the complex
PTSD, you know, there's lots of things that come up with this that
trigger you, you know, and it causes you know, it causes so
much problems for you're having this. Yeah, I can understand that. Can
you can you sort of describe what these these entities that you saw recently,
what sort of form their talk if if you can? And I'm just I'm
just conscious that I don't want to push you into describing something that you're not
comfortable with. So, you know, by all means, stop me if
if you're feeling uncomfortable with with any aspect of what you're talking about or what
I'm asking you. Sure, I mean, I you know, I woke
up in the middle of the night and I felt something there. I mean,
I'm not in the dark. I have to keep my light on.
I mean, I'm an adult fifty five years old, and I can't tell
my light of because fifty seven. I have to do that myself as well
some time. But it's but it's again, you know, it's not because
of the adult. It's the inner child. It's the it's that's what it's
doing. Yeah. But but but these particular beings, I've had these type
of things and the gin type things before, okay, and you know,
they seem I think they seem to know each other, you know, the
these type of entities. I'm sure that they're all linked together in some way.
But these particular ones that come to me, you know, they're females
and and and these are the type of their sexual attacks. Okay. So
so it's and you know, it's not always good. It's you know what
I mean, it's it can be violent, and it's it's to do with
control. I think it's to do with taking your energy. But but one
of them that I see on this particular occasion was it was almost like formless.
It didn't have any you could see it as a female, but it
was black, completely black. It's almost like like plasma type you know,
around its body. But you but and the other there was three of them,
but and they come at they come on the same night that they come
at different times. But the other two, the other two were you know,
they you could see that they were female, so that if you look
at them, you could see, you know, they had human form,
but they but they were you know, they you could tell as well,
you know, they wasn't human, they were obviously. Yeah. So and
so I had this these free attacks from these particular beings. And I have
had these particular beings in the past, you know, as I said,
the old hag type feeling type creature which you know, and also you know,
the shadow type beings of saying and had activity with these and also the
modic type entities I've had as a child, and I have a lot of
body experiences where I have encounters with these particular you know whatever you want to
call them entities. And again they're you know, they're not nice ones,
they're violent ones. So that there is I don't know why I have accounts
for these particular beings, but I think they're linked in some way to the
UFO phenomena. Yeah, yeah, well, certainly there are a lot of
theories, aren't there about what we perceive as paranoimal and what we say,
I mean and ups and UFOs all being sort of linked. I mean,
yeah, I mean I don't I mean, I don't know. But like
many of us, even you know, when you do research and researchers,
you know there are obviously lots and lots of stories and that they all seem
to match as type of theme. So when you know, when you look
at all of them, there is obviously something in that that would then you
know, come to the conclusion that these type of entities, these type of
beings, they're all linked together in some way. But how do they link
to the people that are in these experiences? Yeah, yeah, I mean
there are there are certain theories, aren't that that that people such as yourself
for more attuned to the sort of phenomena. So you know, you're on
that sort of frequency where where you can pick pick these types of entities up,
you can see them and and you know, interact with them and so
on, whereas other people who are not on the same sort of frequency wouldn't
be able to. Yeah, I mean, you want more the positive,
try and stay positive with these sort of things. But I mean it does
sound from what you say, I mean, you know, it's quite it
sounds extremely traumatic, and like I said, I'm just conscious that we don't
want to be going down and having you discussion that could potentially, you know,
upset you mainly and perhaps upset other people as well. So let's let's
just move back to what you were mentioning before. I mean it, I
mean it's fascinating and it's fascinating, and Michael, don't don't get me wrong,
I'm just conscious that, you know, we don't want to be going
going down the wrong the wrong avenue. With with this, you mentioned about
men in black, which is something that I'm really interested in and a lot
of my listeners are really interested in the men in black phenomena. You mentioned
that that you had some interactions with them. Was that when you were a
child as well? Yes, it was, Yeah, it was fun.
It was actually when me and Sean a little while after this encountered with you
know, this particular metallic object. Well, you know, we again,
it was in the school holidays. We ventured into the school itself, into
the main school itself, and we were playing a game, you know,
hide and seek and knowing off to hide. Seong was counting and then you
know, in between that he stopped counting and I actually come out from where
I was hiding, thinking that first I didn't what he was going to jump
on me and try to, you know, trick me. But then when
I come out, he was staring again like it was before, which would
be then we were in the main school hall, sorry, main school,
one of the areas of the school where the library was inside and the secretary's
office. He was looking in for There was two swing type doors. He
was looking through these into the hall, and there was a piano there next
to what would be the pea cupboard, and on just in the background would
be the apparatus, you know, gymnasium, which were that they're folded into
the walls, you know, And I remember he was looking staring at something
and again asking you know what is that? He didn't know. He was
confused, you know, shocked really, and when I looked through the doors,
you know, it's like a really bizarre site. Really, it was
this chall looking you know, what would be I guess a gray and you
know, in my book, I describe it as being similar but not the
same, similar to the one I guess that you would see now in closed
encounters the third kind that wanted, the tall wise one that gets out of
the ship. It was like that, but it was it was there were
some differences, but similar. But it's very tall. You know. We
had long slender arms down its sides, and it was you know, it's
just standing next to the piano, and we were staring at it and he
was staring at us. But at that time we did a missing time there
again, we went into a trance like state. I don't know what happened
in between that. That's something where I don't have a memory of. Again,
I just have the memory of coming out of this trans like state and
Seawan himself and the beard, this creature had gone, and we're running back.
Then in fright, there was there was always a lot of fear when
we come out of these type of states translate states, you know, when
you know when you're like, something's happened, you just don't know what it
was. And and and I had a feeling it wasn't good. And then
we run back. But my dad was at the time, you know,
it was again it was it was his lunch break. The clingers had gone
home, but he was actually coming back up the stairs. So we met
him in between, and Sean was telling him, you know, that there
was somebody in the school and it wasn't human. And I remember him looking
searching our faces to see if we were triggering him or playing a game on
him, or obviously he could see that we were frightened, and we wasn't
you know, messing around. We were telling the truth. So obviously he's
gone off to look, you know, not for something supernatural or of you
know, under earthy origin, but obviously thinking there's a human in druder.
So he's gone off and he's told us to wait there, and he's obviously
searched doors a lot, the you know, the glass has not been broken,
the windows are closed. So he come back and he obviously couldn't find
anything, and he just told us to go back to the school, you
know, to the schoolhouse and stay there, you know. So but it
was only a little while after that. Again, I remember on this particular
you know, I describe it better in the book, more details, but
I remember being my parents. It was in the evening time, you know,
it was in the winter time, and I remember my parents wanted to
go into the garage which was just adjacent to the house, and to lay
some tiles. You know, we had the gray and type blue type tiles
my dad had got because the old ones, the other ones were crumbling,
so they wanted to lay the floor. So my brothers, Frank and Kevin,
they were out because they were older. So whatever they were doing,
I don't know, but they were out, and Sean asked my mum and
dad if he could go into the garage and watch, and so I stayed
in the house, you know, and I offered to do the washing up.
So I remember, you know, my dad asked, you know,
told me to lock the door, which would let you know, the kitchen
door, which would have been the back door. And I remember pulling up
a chair and turning it around because I still wasn't tall enough to reach the
taps, and the kneeling. I was kneeling it anyway, and I was
doing something there. And it's only then that I become aware that there was
someone else with me. And then, you know, from your peripheral feenish
vision, I sort of looked to what would be my right and into the
next room. There was this strange looking man standing there and he was dressed
completely in black. You know, I didn't know what it was then it
was TiO. Much later, when I was doing research in I guess in
the nineteen nineties it was that I discovered it was, you know, something
called a MB but there was, but there was only one of them,
you know, normally there too, isn't it all free? And so only
so I didn't know what it was. I was terrified, you know,
I knew there was no one in the house, and god knows what I
was thinking, what, you know, who is this? And I remember
I was, I remember old, and I had a china a white china
cup in my hand under the water, and I was old in it,
and I was thinking of myself, you know, there's no one in the
outs and my parents sat outside. Who is this? You know, I
didn't know what his intentions were, and he was just standing there, but
I remember he was just dressed in black, and I remember he had the
dark shades on as well, and you know, and and it seemed to
be the dark glasses that that caused me more fear than anything for some reason
at all. And he was just staring at me, and you know,
I looked away for just a few moments, but when I looked back,
he wasn't now no more, and you know, some only later on,
I was thinking myself, did he walk into the hallway? Did he vanish?
You know? But he was solid. You could see he was solid,
and I, you know, when I could, I was. I
got down off the chair and I rushed to the to the back door,
and I was trying to open the key, you know, and my hands
were shaking, and I remember keep looking back, looking back because I felt
that he, you know, in case he attacked me or wanted to do
so, pull me into the room, aren't they But I remember getting the
key open and run out and the bang on the garage door, and then
remember the door coming up and my dad coming from underneath it, and I
told him again he's probably thinking, my god, you know again, you
know. And so he went into the house. And I remember at the
time Francis or he was coming back from his time out, and I remember
my dad saying to him, to somebody in the house. And I remember
my dad reaching down behind the two other or the steel bins, there were
some two bins next to the wall or the garage, and he took something
out, you know, an object of some sort, and went into the
house, and they searched the house where they couldn't find anything. You know,
my dad, my dad. I remember my dad saying maybe he got
out he went out on the back door when I opened it. But when
I went out, I could see the door and the garage door together,
so he you know, he never went out that way. So this was
my first encounter with them. I did have other encounters with them which were
again outside of the body mm hm, which you know, and I did
have something which linked me back to that time or with that being what we
see in the hall. So it's much more. There was much more.
It's like it was I was seeing more of what happened that I didn't remember.
Okay, so there was m IBS involved in that one as well.
And this particular gray being and and being taken abducted both of us. And
did they have a speech toure the the m i bs. Did they ever
have a conversation with you at all? Or were they just there one minute
and gone the next? Well, in the in the yeah, in the
in the in the one from where I see him in the upper room.
No, I didn't remember any type of conversation either, you know, you
know, verbally or in the head. I didn't remember anything like that,
but you know, when I was able to see again what something that took
place, you know, they seem to be they seem to be telling me,
in particular, that they had done this because I was interfering in something.
But you know, it was only a child, so I don't know
what that was about. And you know, from other experiences I've had,
I do know that I've had more contact with these particular beings, the MB
type things, and they seems to any come though when you're when you've seen
something. Yeah, but it felt like they It felt like they were quite
menacing with me, like they did actually want to do me harm. Right.
Do you think they were human? Do you think there were they weren't
human? Okay, No, I know, I know what you mean.
I mean, you know, we've had cases where the military even't we have
you have emulated them to make you think that's what they are. And no,
no, but these particular ones, know I didn't. I normally can
pick up if they're human or not, but or you know, if they
are, if they're not, these particular ones, No, they wasn't.
They were they were something, but they weren't human. And you mentioned about
the military being involved because your dad was in the military himself, and you
said at the beginning of the chat that you had a lot of different people
coming backwards and forwards to the house when you were younger, and some of
those were military people. I mean, was was there anything particularly strange about
that? Did anything particularly strange happen with those people then? Not that I
know of, but you know, I've had strange things happened to me,
you know, going through my life. But I do, you know,
I do have a lot of military adoption types. Now, you know,
I did have I did have an experience again with the Grace where where a
United States military officer was present watching. Okay, when when you know,
this was just after my dad died. I was basically I would have been
turning at the time, turning sixteen. And you know, on this particular
in this particular case, I wrote about this in the book. And there's
images of this as well, of you know, which were done by Jason
Gleaves. Okay, yeah, yeah, so you've done them. I asked
him to do them, which he's done well, and it just depicts you
know, what I had the end of I literally had two grays. One
of them was using the one like device in my mouth and it seemed like
he was, you know, drilling, but at the time when it was
happening, it was actually burning my mouth. I was actually in my head
screaming. I wasn't able to shout at wh I was paralyzed. I was
laying on the sofa, my head was being held by one of the others
at the back of me, and the one in front was floating towards me
with just the ice and the you know, when it was it took.
It seemed to go on for a long time, probably a lot less than
what it seemed like, you know, in the time, but you know,
as actually petrified it. You know, when it was happening, I
didn't know what was going on. But when when it stopped and I was
still paralyzed, but when the grays actually moved out of the way, I
was able to see that there was this well you know what I can now,
you know, say, was a US military officer in the uniform just
standing there watching with his you know, he wasn't he didn't do nothing,
he didn't say nothing, but he was there. But when they vanished he
went with them, and then the moment I could get out for this parent,
when when the paralysis left me and I was able to, I got
up by stumbled back because it felt like I was drugged. I stumbled back,
and then I moved, you know, I left the room as soon
as I could. I didn't want to stay in the room. It was
you know, it's almost and I rushed to what would be the downstairs toilet
and you know, put the light and immediately the first thing I do wanted
to see what had happened in my mouth because it was burning. You know,
I was literally screaming with whatever they were doing. But you know,
to my surprise, there was nothing there. There was you know, no
marks, there was no blood, and so, you know, I didn't
know what happened. And I remember going up the staircase to my room and
I remember collapsing on the ground on the carpet, and literally it must have
I just went into a deep sleep. You know, when I woke up,
I retained that memory in full detail, what happened in the night,
what I did before that, what led led up to this experience, to
the experience itself, everything I see, you know, it's detailed in my
book in detailing even what was in that room at that time or when I
when this happened, you know, back and set back in that time,
I mean, sorry, and in the eighties, and you know, and
and I did have something later on that may you know, pour more light
on what they were doing, which which involved you know, I guess an
implant, right okay? And and that was that was later on when something
happened. It may be related, it may not. But I did actually
give this specific device that fell out in my mouth to a UFO investigator in
Essex. And what did what did he or she make of that? Well?
He I went to you know, I called him up when I said
what I told him what happened, and he invited me to his house where
is where he actually had his office. And I went there and the and
I said to him. What I said to him was what I could see
of this particular object was very small. It was you know, it felt
like a metal. It was like a perfect square, very very small,
but perfect square. But when I looked for a magnifying glass, you could
see it had symbols on it of some sort. And he also had little
wires on it. And this particular object fell out my mouth, you know
what. The night before it wasn't there, and then in the morning it
just fell out into the sink when I was having to watch. There was
no blood or discomfort I could feel. And I brought it to him and
he looked under it. He looked under at it with a powerful, you
know, magnifying glass, and he said the same. You know, he's
quite astonished, quite surprised to see that there was something there, you know.
And he said, what this fell out your mouth? And I said
yeah, I said, you know, if it's only because I hadn't know,
I had to plug in that otherwise it would have gone down to sink.
And he said to me that he had a friend in the m o
D and he would like to look at it. And so I remember him
then saying to me, I'd be in contact with you. And you know,
the weeks went past, I didn't hear nothing, and then he contacted
me and he said that unfortunately the objects had vanished along with this person who
was at the m o D. So, you know, someone said to
me maybe it was Nick Pope. I don't know it was, but you
know that he gave it to. I don't know. He just said he
had a friend at the m o D who would be interested in looking at
it, you know, I don't I don't know if it was Hope or
not. I don't know. Well what what what sort of you? What
are we are we talking about with? That would have been I guess let
me see a six, right, okay, something like that. I don't
know. I didn't know about Nick Pope then, you know, so you
know, maybe it was maybe it wasn't. I can't really spect. I
can't really say, you know, someone just asked me recently, you know,
maybe it was I'm probably thinking it wasn't. It was probably someone in
the military, maybe that he knew. Yeah, yeah, you know,
you know, like you do as an investigator coming to all sorts of statue.
Yeah, of course. No. Well that's I mean, that must
have been quite a shock to you know, for that, for that to
happen. Yeah, I mean I always remember it, you know, And
as I said, you know, I I just wrote it down in the
journal that I had at the time, but I didn't know what it was,
you know. I was always having these strange type of things happening to
me. And the thing is you know, the frustrating thing about it is
you never you never have any answers. It's just like a riddle, you
know, but it seems to affect you. Even that's a riddle. It
seems to affect you mentally and emotionally. Yeah. So so given given all
these I mean, obviously you've had some very traumatic experiences of the years,
you know, and and and you've said that they you know, they've obviously
had a lasted effects on you. I mean, how how cathartic was it
then to write the book? I mean, what what what sort of led
you to to write the book in the first place, given how obviously how
difficult some of these experiences that you've had, and the fact that they've had
on you. Well, I've always been a writer, you know, I've
always you know, I've always been someone who does a lot of writing,
but not published. You know, there come a time, I guess when
I knew I was going to write a book about these type of experiences at
some point in my life. I just didn't know when. There were times
when I tried to write it, but it wasn't the right time with everyday
life and other things happening. But then you know, I just decided,
you know, I would set out to achieve this, and I did,
and it was very odd. It was very difficult because I'm like, when
you're writing the book and you're writing about as an investigator, researcher, I
other people's experiences, this is deeply personal. So when I was writing it,
it was difficult. There was lots of triggers coming up from me.
And you know, there's lots of you know, when you're going back and
you're remembering the details and how you felt at that time, it brought you
back to that time. I mean, it did help in a way,
but it was also very healing for me. You know, it allowed me
to go through those type of trauma and you know, when you're writing about
it and putting it down, it does actually it does help you to heal
yourself, you know. So it did help me, you know, to
you know, to go back and to relive and then to process it.
So so the trauma, you know, it did help me to do that.
And you know, and I guess you know, again it was you
know, it's a big achievement for me to get to get the book out
there and to to write it. You know, people when when I was
saying to people, you're writing the book, they don't believe you. They
think, yeah, you know, everyone says that. But then you know,
but when it was published, you know, you know, what can
you say? You know, I've done it. Yeah, it's it's a
massive achievement. It really isn't, especially when it's when it's something that's as
personal to you as you know, what you've written in that book. I
think it is. I think it's a massive achievement. And and obviously it's
it's helped you sort of work through some of the things that have obviously been
difficult for you to remember of the years. So it's been quite it sounds
like it's it's been worthwhile in the fact that it's helped you sort of rationalize
maybe and and sort of heal a little bit with with some of these experiences
that you've had. I mean, the thing is is that, you know,
when I was writing the book, I did reach out to a few
people, you know, but to you know, Pauls and Claire Pause and
Claire, I asked him if you do the forward, and he graciously accepted
and did. He also allowed me to use you know, one of the
phrases that he coined. That I used one of the chapters of a phrase
that he coined that he often used, and he allowed me to use that.
I asked him and he let me use it. And obviously I asked
Jason Gleaves, he done my images. Ronald and Philip Cantilla helped me,
and you know, Mark helped me with the synopsis, helped me put that
together. And then you know, Philip Mantel said, you know, why
don't we take a look at it, Michael, And you know, you
know the rest is issue. So because he helped me with the publishing.
Yeah, so all all the big hitters in the field, many of many
of whom I have spotn too. And I've interviewed himself phone so so yeah,
certainly a rogues gallery shall always say. Yeah. So, you know,
so I began talking to these and I was telling them, you know,
I've had similar experiences like with Paul and as an abduct tea, and
and you know, I started to build a friendship with these and you know,
gradually, you know, they were helping me with little bits of it,
you know, regards to publishing, because they've been books. So you
know, so I built up a friendship and they you know, I'm very
thankful to all of them that they helped me and helped me, you know,
I guess also with more so with support. Yeah, and the support
that you know, it was the support that was you know, you know,
really really accepted. You know, that was really special. I mean,
you're talking to like minded people, aren't you, and you discussing there
with like mine exactly. It makes you feel a little bit less out there
on your own when you can when you can discuss these sort of things with
people who have had similar experiences and are not going to pretty judge exactly.
And I remember it was then you know that Ashton Greg you know from the
paranormal you know podcasts, you know, they they invited me onto their show
and I spoke to them a few times. So you know that helped as
well, you know, of course. Yeah, and hopefully this will help
a little bit as well. Yeah yeah, yeah, so the pursuit of
the paranormal. Yeah, so yeah, this will as well. Yeah.
So you know, I'm really thankful you invite me onto to you No,
it's been absolutely fascinating, it really hasn't. And you're definitely up there.
I think with with you know, the most interesting guests that I've I've spoken
to over over the course of the podcast. I noticed that your book,
I know you said that that your book have been published through Philip Philip Mantle.
It's it's also on Amazon as well, and there's an audiobook, isn't
that? Did I did? I notice an audiobook? There is, there's
a it's on actually paperback or cover, it's on the it's on Kindle,
and it's on an audio book. So we had a narrator come in and
and do that through Philip Mantle. And I'm writing the second book now,
the follow up. Okay, so that's you know, that's going through various
experiences that I didn't mention obviously in the book first book, but I'll probably
write it a little bit different then to the to the first book. You
know, in the in the first book, it's very much to do with
showing everything you know in the way you know, sometimes you can just tell
a story or you can show the you know, people that are reading it
much more detail. So I might write it a little bit the second one
a bit different, but it is the books are volumes, so you know,
I'm writing them in volumes to so just going from when there was a
child to a teenager, then to a teenager to a young adult. But
I'll be in obviously, I'll start from my childhood home again to the point
where I left it, and then moved into what would be esthics, right,
and then again these experiences start to accelerate, you know, start to
But there were there were positive ones as well, which I mentioned, so
you know, well, I'll have to have you back on them when you
finish the second book. It's the same point I have come back on and
and tell us all about about the second book. Are you okay with people
contacting you if they want to want to contact you about things? Do you
have you on Facebook or social media? Or do you have an email address
that people can contact you up? Yeah, they can contact me on my
email address, which is Michael Cameron. That's ok twenty twenty three at gmail
dot com. Or you can contact me on on on Facebook as again Michael
Cameron, that's okay. And you know, I do get a lot of
people contacting me, you know, yeah, but you know, anyone who
does contact me, I always answer back and or you know, accept a
friend request, and you know, meet like minded people. Excellent, good
stuff. Well, it's been great talking to you. You've had a fascinating
life, haven't you had an interesting life up till now? And good luck
with the book. Good good luck with writing the second book. As somebody
who's who's written a couple of books myself and I know it's a it can
become the labor of love and it can become all consuming. So good luck
with with both the books. And as I say, when when the when
the second book comes out, I'll keep an eye out for it and hopefully
we can we can get together and have a chat about about the second book.
Yeah, lovely, thank you. I really appreciate you asking me on
no problem. No, it's been great, thanks for coming on. So
yeah, take care Michael, thank you for thank you for speaking to it
to me. Thank you, thank you. You can visit my website at
www dot Craig Bryant dot co dot uk. Paranormal Pendle will return and remember
to keep watching the shadows. Do