This podcast episode is brought to you by Coors Light. These days, everything is go, go go. It's NonStop hustle all the time. Work, friends, family expect you to be on twenty four seven. Well, sometimes you just need to reach for a Coors Light because it's made to chill. Coors Light is cold loggered, cold filtered, and cold package. It's as crisp and refreshing as the Colorado Rockies. It's literally made to chill. Coorse Light is the one I choose when I need to unwind. So when you want to hit reset, reach for the beer that's made to chill. Get Coors Light and the new look delivered straight to your door with Drizzly or Instacart. Celebrate Responsibly, Coors Brewing Company, Golden Colorado. This is Brandon Kelly, the host of Blue Eyre's new podcast, Golden Goals. From Lionel Messi to Marta to Pelee, our show takes a deep dive into soccer superstars water Welcome for Meghan Rapino. From Zlatan Ibrahimovich's brash confidence with the play to back it up to Megan Rapino's heroic outspokenness and World Cup Flare. Each episode examines a personality of the world's game. Will dig into Maradona's hand of God performance and subsequent downfall, the teenage trio at Dorton that signaled the next generation of superstars, and that infamous headbut that slung Zenadin Zadan from Glory Golden Gold Soccer Stars and the moments that made them Premiering this summer on Blue Wire. What is krack Alagin Hardwood Knox Listeners, I am Dan for Valley, coming at you with as always Adam, founder and editor in chief of NBA Math and also an editor extraordinaire at Bleacher Report. Follow him on Twitter at FRAML zero nine. We are continuing with our decade ranking series. We have the top ten players of the Memphis Grizzlies over the past decade has chosen and ranked not only by Adam and myself, but also you the listener. Get excited first, though our usual housekeeping notes Please please please, please pretty please with sugar and cherries on top, or however that's saying goes mind fart, brain fart right there, a brain fart while talking about a brain fart spectacular. Remember to rate, review, and subscribe to us wherever you're getting your podcasts assuming they allow ratings and reviews. They definitely allow subscriptions though, so wherever you're consuming your pod, subscribe to us, download our episodes. If you've done all those things, we appreciate shoutouts, retweeting our promos on Twitter, word of mouth, telling your friends, family members, co workers, acquaintances, random people on social media. Yeah, we appreciate it all and on iTunes specifically, whether you're using it or not. All ratings and written reviews go a long way, and we are staying on top and reading all constructive criticism. So please we take it the heart. Thank you in advance there. Follow us on Twitter at Hardwood Knox. You can follow our YouTube channel, which has all of these decade rankings podcasts in one convenient playlist. Go figure YouTube dot com search Hardwin Knox. We will come right up. Subscribe please and thank you. Last, but certainly not least, shout out to our sponsor, as always, bet online dot AG. You'll be hearing from them in just a couple of moments. Adam, how are you doing. I'm doing good. I'm glad that I get to sit down to record this with you because my quads are dead. I think I was telling you before that. We got a bike seat for my eighteen month old child, and I haven't been on a bike in a long time, and biking around a hilly city with a thirty pound anchor on the back of the bike is is destroying me, not even that slowly. Ironically, the last time I rode a bike was probably a half decade ago near where you live. It was in Denver, so it's very hilly there in certain points. So yeah, I don't think I realized just how hilly it was until I started trying to navigate it on a bike with a child behind me. Look, we gotta be real though. For people who've never met Adam, which is the vast majority of our listeners, it really is time that he kind of works on the quads though, just because he has these massive tree trunk calves and now he's going to get the quads to match. So if you've ever wondered whether I have calf envy of anybody can generally related to NBA Twitter, it's it's Adam FROMO. Follow him on Twitter at Promo zero nine for all his tree trunk pictures that he does not post that you don't even know how we're going to recover from this. Now, I like, where are we going to go from here in this podcast? Well, you need to first of all, social media now used to see your quad progress because we've bragged about your calves. But let's let's this feels like a very natural, organic way into the Memphis Grizzlies. It does because I definitely just associate gigantic calves with them at all times. Yeah. Not you know, if Mark Gasol was still there now, maybe not so much at this time, since he lost like eighty pounds. I don't know if anyone saw those pictures of him. I'm very curious. This is only semi related to this. I want to see if his game or Nicole Yokich's game is impacted at all by what appears to be this profound weight loss. Yeah, it's one of those things where we don't really know if it's going to backfire or not, just because I think more so with Yokich than with Gasol, Like their game is kind of predicated on the heft and knowing how to use that, and I don't know if increased mobility and quickness will counteract any losses in just sheer size. I think it stands to help Gasol more than it will help Yokich, just because one, he's he's older and so being lighter on your feet is probably better. And then the other thing is is that I was writing about this. I don't know when, maybe it was it was very recently, but when Gasol was traded to the Raptors, he averaged over six post ups for thirty six minutes last year. He's down to a round two this season, so he's just not working down low as much. And if you're gonna have to cover, yeah, you know, maybe it hurts you against a Joel and Bead type, but if you're gonna have to cover all these other mobile bigs or just even guys like Brook Lopez who shoot from the perimeter and you need to be able to close out on them in certain situations, I think it ends up helping help It stands to help him more or at least hurt him less than it would Yokich, who is you know, equal parts. You know, he's guile, but he's also force and finesse, and he does he lose that force aspect That literally has nothing to do with this podcast though not what so that's basically like the theme of this podcast the first five minutes or throwaway minutes from Memphis Grizzlies fans who only want to hear, although they should be interested in how Gasol is doing anyway, though, so can you take us through the to start us off with the top ten Memphis Grizzlies of the decade and just forever as everyone who remembers. Since it's been a couple of weeks since we last published one of these, Adam and I ranked our top ten players for the Grizzlies of the decade, and then we also had a form that many fans filled out, and so that factors into the composite rankings as well without further delay. Finally, though, I throw it to Adam. Yeah, we're always so thankful for the responses that come in, so please continue voting as we put out those polls. We are halfway through with this one, which is kind of hard to believe both that we're only halfway through and that we've made it halfway through. But again, that's neither here nor there, which is the theme of this podcast. So I will say that oj Mayo barely missed the cut, and he lagged just behind Jonas Valanciunas, who checked in at the tenth spot in our composite rankings, which again are based on the fan vote, my vote and Dan's vote, So Valanciunas actually did not appear in the fans top ten. He was bumped in favor of Mayo and checked in at number eleven. He was number eight for me and he was number ten for Dan. Definitely a guy where the baroness factor that we've talked about on these episodes so many times does not really help him out. He's only twenty fourth and minutes played for the decade, which dates back to twenty ten eleven for our purview here, But in that brief time that he's been in Memphis, I think that he's he's continued to emerge as in my opinion, one of the most underrated players in the NBA, especially now that he's adding more perimeter elements to his game. Just a guy who is it's constantly efficient, who knows his role, who maximizes his contributions in that role, who contributes on both ends, a fantastic rebounder. Not a guy who's going to put up glamorous scoring numbers, but he doesn't need to in order to thrive, and he can put up scoring numbers at a hurry though if if he needs to, and that's what's really intriguing about him, is he can. He'll have that offensive output even if you kind of consolidate his role with which Memphis has done to some extent. And he's also kind of timeline proofed himself. He's hitting thirty six point seven percent of his threees this year on a career high one point seven attempts per six minutes. He can still really finish out of the pick and roll extremely well, and look he's averaging also, he's everying one point two one point two four points per possession as the rollman this year, which is in the seventy fourth percentile. And he's also one of ten players shooting better than fifty percent on at least three per post ups per game. So he's really just merged what you want from a contemporary big yeah, where you know, you don't want to see him face up and put the ball on the floor necessarily from beyond the arc, but he stretches defenses. But then he also still kind of has that brute force to his game. And I think what's also important to remember is that he's probably a neutral defender, and I think a lot was made of what happened to Toronto in certain seasons during his time there. He's never going to anchor a really good defense, and so if he is your primary or only back line of defense, you're not going to have this exceptional defense. But when you have other options, either really like you know, competent perimeter defenders around him, or just someone who he can play in tandem within the front court where he can focus on rim protection and doesn't have to come out of the paint as much, he's going to be just fine. And so I think that's sort of I think it became clear when he towards the talent of his time in Toronto, when they were still good defensively with him on the court. But it's also been clear in Memphis, where they've had an above average defense with him on the floor. And I think he's made an impact over the past fewer than two seasons. I don't even really know how to phrase that that he was an easy inclusion in the top ten for me, even though it hurt a little bit to Levo Jameyo out. Yeah, he was an easy inclusion for me, and I think that especially during his time in Memphis. I really associate him with that combination of physicality and finesse, Like he's a guy that can use his size to overpower people down low, but he also has a pretty smooth mid range jumper. He's one of those few bigs who I'm like, I'm okay with you taking those twenty footers because he makes them pretty consistently, and just having a guy who does force defenders to pay attention to that space is valuable in and of itself. It's telling that Memphis has consistently been better with him on the court, and I don't think that's just a function of who he's playing with, because he does, in his own way, kind of warp how defensives have to pay attention to the big man for Memphis. Yeah, and he's look looking at his contracts, he's one of those where, yeah, he's making comfortably in the eight figures per year and he's not what you would call a I don't even think I've used this word in a while, but a unicorn big, but you feel comfortable paying him that money. He's also a little bit younger, I think than most people realize. This was his age. Yeah, so he just turned twenty eight in May. That really just helps him out looking forward, not necessarily in this discussion. Yep. The next guy on our list is not as young as Jonas Vunnis, and that is that's Vince Carter, who checked in at number ten for the fans, number nine for me, and number eight for you. I do wonder if there is a little bit of sentimentality here, just because Vince just announced his retirement as we were voting on these finishes, and I think it's natural to remember a player who is it is considered in such a positive light throughout his NBA career, maybe Toronto fans. Notwithstanding, he wasn't great in Memphis. He spent three seasons there, very much like his continued maturation into a role player rather than a star. But forty point eight percent on two while he was in Memphis, that's not that's not great. Yeah, the shooting numbers weren't great, but I think just like the leadership alone mattered, you know, on those teams that we're trying to get over that playoff hump as they established themselves as consistent postseason participants. I think he's he's one of those guys where his value goes beyond anything that we're going to see on a statue. Yeah, and look, he it was clear in Dallas, but in Memphis as well. His defense I would say him proved as his career went on. And so to have someone who know, he's not a lockdown wing stopper, but you could kind of trust him to work hard on that end of the floor, and he was using space and he was using you know, his intellect more so than his physical tools at this point. And so I think that focus which probably shifted at some point. I think, well, he was in New Jersey, maybe even maybe even in Orlando, if you want to go that far. Definitely by the time he was in Dallas, to become someone who can defend some fours in spots, and that that really started. I think it was in Dallas, but it also happened in Memphis a little bit too. But someone that you could throw on twos or threes as well and you don't think that you're going to get absolutely torched. That's really where a big part of his value came in. And he was by this point only only thirty four point eight percent from three during his time in Memphis, but he was very much plug in play at this point in his career as well, and so when you kind of throw in the theirness factor too, he's ninth in minutes for the decade on the Grizzlies too, played for some quality Memphis teams. I definitely feel comfortable putting him in the top ten. Me putting him at eight ahead of Jaren Jackson Junior, who was spoiler I had at nine. Maybe that's a little bit of sentimentality at play, but I think he absolutely belongs in the top ten. Unless you're just incredibly high on on Oj Mayo. I almost want to give him more credit for being ninth than minutes, just because of the stage of his career at which he accumulated those minutes. Like his final the final of his three seasons in Memphis was his age forty season, and that was four years ago. I mean, it's like, just thinking back on his career, it's ridiculous, Like just how much time he's spent in the NBA. He's played in four different decades. Man, He's like, he's played in four different decades. I'm really dunked in four different decades, right, I'm really upset that we didn't get an opportunity to just like appreciate his retiring because you knew what was happening this season, but you thought you had more time, Like a quarter of the season essentially left with him, and all of a sudden, we watched him his car to play basketball for the last time. Yeah, and I know it doesn't have anything to do with the Grizzlies, but I do just want to say that I'm really excited to see what comes next for him, because he's He's been a consistent presence in like summerly broadcasts and the occasional NBA TV broadcast, and he's fantastic just the ability to give measured insight, to appreciate the stylistic changes that the NBA has undergone in the last couple of decades, which he has been a part of, and to not want to put down the current generation of players but instead prop them up like he's been. He's been a really consistently positive presence on every broadcast that he's been a part of, and I really hope that that portion of his career gains prominence. Look, Vince Carter, if you want to come on and be a co host of The Hardwoodknoch podcasts. You're in WET I won't even need to interview you. So if you're look going to make that transition to the podcast world, I would I would still interview him. Yeah, I'd still attention to Hardwin Knox listeners. There is no shortage of action going on at our exclusive partners, bet online dot ag. Sports are slowly making their way back, and bet online is leading the way with the best odds and lines for all UFC, NASCAR, boxing and soccer matches. And if you need even more, they have simulated NFL, NBA and UFC events all day, every day, live on their website. Looking for something else other than sports, bet online has hundreds of casino games, poker tournaments and prop bets. To check out, visit bet online dot ag and use promo code of blue wire all one word for a free welcome bonus. That's one word, blue wire bet online. You're online wagering experts. Can you take us to the actual or the composite? Excuse me? Number eight? Yeah, number eight. We have Jaren Jackson Jr. He was seventh in the fan voting. He was down at number ten for me and he was at number nine for you. It's weird because his career is still so so young. It's still filled with so much hype because of you know how much excitement he carried with him when he entered the league as the number four pick of the twenty eighteen draft. But then these first two seasons have have felt disappointing, and yet it still feels like he's an obvious inclusion. It's a seesaw here. Yeah, his first season wasn't disappointing to me. His second season it felt like he plateaued and the same defensive issues are still there for him, and so for people like myself who thought he was going to be an NBA player both ends of the floor, I do think you may need to reassess whether that's still possible. On defense, he's again he's only Uh, he's still so young. This is just his second season, and you know, maybe during twenty one yet, right, he can't even order a mimosa I llegally anyway, So there's there's still a chance that he'll end up improving, won't commit as many fouls on that end of the floor, can hold up at center against bigger, stronger players. I really like that he can still score within the flow of the offense. He's not he doesn't hesitate the bomb threes at this point. I think that's going to be very important. When he does put the ball on the floor, it does kind of feel like he's in slow motion, but he is under control, and so I do I feel like there are more planes of his offensive game for him to explore. I just don't know if he'll get to now that John Morant has come in and so clearly become this franchise's future, and rightfully so. And I also think that contributes to the disappointment a little bit, is that you have this John Morant ascent and now John Jackson Junior isn't necessarily less important to their future, but he's he's a little less prominent. And if you're going to weigh that in tandem with his sort of plateauing from his rookie year, I think I think it's fair to say, or maybe that's an impetus for calling his sophomore season a letdown, but I do think it's it's fair to say that, you know, you are a little bit disappointed in his sophomore campaign, specifically, still guys who stretch the floor and also can just score it feels like twenty five points per game within the flow of the offense. That's really important, particularly when your floor general is going to end up being someone like John Moran who needs to dominate the ball. I have no doubt that he can do things off the ball, but you want the ball in his hands just because of everything he does with his escapism, his playmaking, his ability to create shots for himself. The fouls are the biggest issue for me, and I think they stem both from a need to bulk up a little more so he can capably handle the physicality of other front court players, but also just discipline and having better reads on defense. You know, I think we see him too often bite for fakes, bite for passing lanes, and then be forced to recover and end up fouling. But you can't average five point two fouls per thirty six minutes as a rookie and then five point two per thirty six minutes as a saw more like that's an area that you need to improve in, especially because when you limit your playing time through whistles rather than a lack of opportunity, and you're a really talented scorer who's putting up over twenty points per thirty minutes per thirty six minutes inefficient fashion because you can score from all three levels, you're just shooting yourself in the foot. You know. It's like earlier in Yokich's career when he was starting to become a star for Denver and he had those frustration fouls in transition where he just like kind of bear hug a guy, like a very EuroLeague style of foul. He still has those two. He does still have those occasionally, but he's at least cut back on him. But that hindered his progression and his growth into a total star. And I think we're seeing something similar, albeit to a lesser extent, from Jackson, where if that part of his game doesn't improve, it almost isn't going to matter how much he progresses in other areas because he's capping himself to twenty eight minutes per game. And it also hurts because he's very clearly going to be a better, I don't want to say, perimeter defender, but just better suited at the four spot than the five, at least for the preceiable future. The Grizzlies are in the thirtieth percentile this year when he plays center of points lab per one hundred possessions, and there are just parades at the rim. Around forty percent of their opponent looks come at the rim when Jared Jackson Junior plays center, and so that's an issue. But he's also shown that when he's when he's more disciplined and he's out in front, like he can really get up and can test these jumpers and force the ball out of opponent's hands, and so he can be a very effective defender. A lot of it, though, feels like it's going to come down to discipline. And then, of course, has you already mentioned, there's going to be that strength factor if you want him to be even a split time five, not even just a full time five, but if you want to kind of straddle the line and you know, just do a fifty percent split at both the four and five, he's gonna need to get stronger. And I do just want to say that we're not trying to hate on Jaren Jackson Junior or anything. If anything, you know, it's because we're both so ex cited about his potential and enjoy watching him play so much that we're being critical. Like he was an obvious inclusion in the top ten four Memphis over the last decade, and the ridiculous amount of potential that's to some extent lying dormant is the impetus for the criticism here, not criticizing for the sake of criticizing, right, And look, like I said, I thought he was gonna be an all NBA caliber player on both ends of the floor. And I think probably one of the highest compliments you can pay to him is to demand more or expect more from him, like like we kind of do at this point. And the other thing is, even as he is right now, there's still a case to be made that he's a top seventy five player in the NBA. There's still a case, and he certainly he's still top one hundred to me, maybe not in any given game. He can look absolutely terrible, But because we can say that, and we also don't feel that he's come close to sniffing his peak or even making upward progression at this point, that says a lot about what he seems to be capable of. Absolutely. But let's move on to our two way tie for sixth place in this top ten. The first of those of those two players is Jamichael Green, who was eighth place for the fans. He was sixth place for both Dan and I, and as a spoiler alert, from this point forward, we have unanimity between Dan and I and our rankings. I am in no way qualified to talk about Jamichael Green on a podcast with Dan Favalley, who is probably the biggest Jamchael Green fan outside of Jamchael Green's family. So I'll let you take it away. I am really upset that you think that his family is a bigger fan of him than I am. Jamichael Green just fills so many gaps and does so in these measure measured doses that it's that it's sort of easy to overlook. And he definitely does have his imperfections where there have been seasons and it's you're wondering, well, you know, canny shoot is a little bit higher from three, but he knocked down thirty six point two percent of his trades. Well, he was with the Grizzly, he became this player that they could play it the four, the five, and the defense isn't only sound when he's at the five, but he can really move, particularly during his time with Memphis where he was first kind of coming onto the scene and and NBA geeks were becoming aware of him. He really could move well on the perimeter, and he was defending, you know, switching on to pick and roll ball handlers, which is just not easy to do, but also having the strength to kind of double back and cover the role guys. I do think there's been there's definitely been a role regression and performance regression since he's left Memphis. But we kind of also saw his value last year in the playoffs when in that Warriors series. There was a number of reasons, none of which were necessarily primarily Jamichael Green himself, that the Clippers pushed the Warriors to six games, but they used him at the five and they absolutely ran the Warriors off the floor during the stints in that series. That's something that I could see the Clippers going back to in this year's playoffs, even though they haven't really leaned on it this season. But for Jamichael Green's time in Memphis specifically, I think he just showed that he was this jack of all trades and maybe master of none. And that's huge in having what you needed to be at that point, let's say your fifth best player or your sixth best player to have that type of guy. It's he was never going to be glamorous, but he just like I said at the top of this, he just filled so many holes. And I think defensively particularly, I'm not sure he's fully appreciated enough because of all that he can do, and we don't get to see it because his role just isn't that large in Los Angeles and it wasn't necessarily as big towards the tail end of his time and in Memphis either. But he is a really good basketball player, and to be so plug and play in YO low usage on the offensive end, it makes him easier to fit in onto any roster. And if he does decline his player option this summer, which I actually don't think he will, I do believe he's someone that could end up playing a more prominent role and helping out of a very good team. Do you think that's the longest anyone has talked about Jamichael Green Uninterrupted on a podcast. Ever. I was gonna go on about his clothes outs a little bit during some of his stints in Memphis, but I felt like I was just rambling at this point, so I wanted to I want to cut it in solid. I have nothing to add about Ja Michael Green because I am not the authority on Jamichael Green on this podcast. So anyway, he's tied a very strange tie. We've had some ties that makes sense, like Patrick Beverly and Montrez Harold made sense for the Los Angeles Clippers. JA Michael Green being tied with John Morant for sixth place with the Memphis Grizzlies just it feels kind of weird, but that's the result because Morant was sixth from the fans. He was seventh. For both you and I hard to place just because there is such a lack of theirness. As he's midway through his rookie season, he's only twenty ninth and minutes blade for the decade, but he's sure as hell has made those those minutes count thus far. I feel like as excited as we were when he was entering the league out of Murray State, and as many expectations as followed him into the league, he's exceeded all of them. Like his shooting from the perimeter has been far better than expected. The slightness of his frame has not held him back in a way that some thought it might. As he began to establish himself in the NBA, I mean, seventeen point six points in six six point nine assists per game, in efficient fashion, leading a Memphis team that no one really expected to take a leap this soon into the playoff picture in the always difficult Western Conference. And he's just fun to watch. I mean, if he's if he's not already one of your absolute favorite players in the league to watch on a nightly basis, I think you're just watching basketball wrong. Yeah, this placement was basically saying, maybe you could have placed him fifth if you really wanted to, but it was it admittans that there are players who had longer ten years who marant most of them. I would say, he's going to up leap frogging at some point, and so you just put him here because he hasn't been there that long. Maybe again, maybe you could put him at number five if you wanted to, but it actually ends up feeling like the right spot, whereas the recognition of we need to put him as high as possible, but this is basically as high as possible. And I don't really I just don't have anything telling that even the fans didn't have him right in the top five for the decade and I don't really have anything to add just what you said about his functionality, and there's Look, there's if you give the keys of an offense to a rookie, he can be a ratic and sloppy, but he marries volume and efficiency in a way on a difficulty level that rookies before him just predominantly haven't done. Which brings me to a trivia question for you. No, we're reversing it here. Yes, I'm putting you putting the screws to you this time. What if I refuse to answer? That's fine. That just means that it's an awesome trivia question in my opinion. So John Morant is one of three other rookies to average at least twenty points eight assists and also post Morant's current true shooting percentage. I'm sorry. There are only three rookies in NBA history who have posted more than twenty points and eight assists for thirty six minutes. Can you name the other two? John Morant is one, and my fun fact was also he has the highest true shooting percentage of these three players. But so Chris Paul is going to be one of the others. No? Really? Wow? Okay, I'm gonna go all the way back to Oscar Robertson. He is one and then oh, I have two names in my head, and I don't know which it's going to be, if it's even gonna be one of them. I'm gonna go with tiny Archibald. It is not him, all right. My other name was Tyreek Evans. It is not him, all right. I'm striking out left and right here, try yet my misery, Trey Young, I should have known that. I'm embarrassed that I didn't know that CP three when I was looking. I'm pretty sure he didn't have the points per thirty six minutes, which is not surprising at all, given how he he likes to play, right, How did it feel at him? How did it feel to be on that end of the trivia question? I enjoyed it more than I thought I would. All right, well about that, no, But back back to just Ran and my and moving away from my trivia humiliation. You know, we typically see two pitfalls for first year guards. Point guards who are tasked with team running responsibilities. They don't shoot efficiently. Well, so much for that. I mean, he's a fantastic finisher. He's making a bunch of threes. And then we also see a lot of turnover issues and we're not seeing that either. I mean three point two turnovers per game while playing thirty minutes per contest and having this much responsibility to create everything for this offense, and he doesn't make those mistakes. Like the sky feels the limit for this guy. My biggest concern is I just every time I watch him play, I'm like, oh shit, Like tonight's going to be the night he gets injured because he's learned how to land. Yeah, he needs to learn how to land. I see a lot of Dwayne Wade in his game, the way that he attacks the basket that he takes off from like some weird angles, the way that he can manipulate his body and contort it in the air. Wade was a phenomenal faller. I think that's one of the more underappreciated elements of his game was that he knew how to take contact softly, he knew how to land softly, and he stayed healthy because of that. And I just I really hope that that's what we see with jam Moran. The only thing that and I think I'd like to see that. I feel like he needs to do because that's about basically his livelihood in this league. I don't want to see him get injured, and I also would like to see, though this is specifically a want the three point volume to come up. I think it's encouraging given the types of shots that he's taken, and he's at thirty six point seven percent from three but two point eight attempts for thirty six minutes, it feels a little low. That says, if you're going to shoot above lee average on low volume, then it's it's going to be fine. And given all the things that he can do inside the arc, it it obviously works. But I'd like to see that number come up in time, and again it probably will because he's only a rookie. It's hard to believe that he's only a rookie. And he is also the absolute should be rookie of the year, let's make that clear. As as great as Zion Williamson has been in nineteen games, and if he if Zion had a chance to catch him, which he did not in my book, just based off the sample size, it's gone now because you're giving him only eight regular season games and twenty seven compared to what Morants will be if he plays an all eightive Memphery, if they close the gap, if they close the gap in New Orleans make the playoffs. We're gonna hear about how Zion should be the rookie of the year. Let's just get it out of the way now. He should not be. There is not the requisite sample size. This is not a career question. It's rookie of the year. If you thinks is going to have the better career, that's fine, that's a legitimate debate. But this is rookie of the year. And John Morant has very clearly, very obviously been the rookie of the year. Agreed. Speaking of obvious things, this is the first time, this is our fifteenth episode in this series looking at the franchise decade rankings. It is the first time that we've had unanimity for the top five. We had the same player in the five spot for the fans, for me, for Dan, and the same all the way up through number one. So Rudy Gay is the guy here. I think I forget how much time Rudy's Rudy Gay spent in Memphis. Six to the minutes played for the decade. He spent the first what six plus seasons of his career in Memphis before he was traded to the Toronto Raptors, and it just feels like he's bounced around between the Kings and the Spurs since then, to the point that, like, I felt like I personally kind of forgot just how good he was at the beginning of his career in Memphis, Like a consistent twenty point per night threat, a guy who could score from every level, a guy who used his athleticystem to contribute on the glass, who could put the ball on the floor, who could guard multiple positions. He never really became the superstar that there was a chance he was going to become out of Yukon, I mean, entering the league as the number eight pick in two thousand and six. But I think it's hard to be disappointed with the evolution as well. He is the closest they've come to having the wing that they've been searching for for their entire existence, and he might have even been it at one point, but it was just too early in the in the NBA's current movement, if you put Rudy Gay, if you put today's Rudy Gay, or if you knew what you knew now about how the game was going to be played, or he knew that he was going to need to improve his three point shot, which he kind of did starting in in Sacramento, even though he had he had the down year in San Antoni had another down year this year, So I take that back. I didn't really pay attention to his splits this year. But I think if you know what you know about the NBA today and you put Rudy Gay, you take that knowledge with Rudy Gay and put him back on the Grizzlies during that, you know, two thousand and six season and on or let's say two thousand and seven season, two thousand seven, two thousand and eight, which is the first time he cracked twenty points per game, I think that Grizzlies end up being a lot better than they actually were, and so it seemed to be a little bit of that at play. The other thing would be he probably wasn't as efficient inside the arc as he needed to be, and when you were also running so much of your offense through bigs, I think that's what kind of became expendable for Memphis where they needed someone who, in theory would be more plug in play, and that's a tougher thing to search for, but he was. That's I'm not taking anything away from him. He was. He was really good and I I support everything you just said about right in terms of our rankings, I feel like there was never any question that he was going to finish in fifth place because there are four players who are so clearly associated with the entirety of the Grid and Grind era in Memphis, who are obviously better and more important to the franchise than him. But then there's a significant drop down to the guys like Jo Michael Green and Vince Carter and Jaren Jackson Jr. Who have spent limited time with the Grizzlies, and then John Morant, who obviously is still in the midst of his rookie season and could only rise so high when compared to a guy who did spend over six seasons with the team. So this just it felt like a lock. Yeah, I'm with you this whole this whole order felt like it was going to be unanimous. The way it unfolded. Yeah, I think the only real debate was probably between four and three. Tony Allen finished fourth again unanimity across the board. I think you can make a case that he belonged above Zach Randolph, who checks in at number three. Probably not in terms of sheer on court value in terms of production, but if we talk about how Alan lent his identity in totality to this franchise, I mean, the grid and grind era in Memphis basketball history happens because of him. You know, there there are other players who elevated that ceiling, but he gave that team its identity. It's it's toughness, it's willingness to compete on defense, to never give up in any game, to play with an edge. You know, the when when he would yell first team all Defense to the crowd, like just all of those those seminal moments in this era of the franchise's history, they feel like they stemmed from him. And if you are willing to to let that sentimality, sentimentality supersede pure production, I think that there is a case for him to move into the top three. It's not one that any of us chose to use, but I do think that that possibility exists and should be account Look four seventh season in Memphis, Memphis six all defense, elections, and one of the memories that I'll always have is him defending Kevin Durant when Kadi's on the thunder and we're talking about Durant who's basically a seven footer and Tony Allen who's six four. No, it wasn't always effective, but he was such a nuisance that he basically guarded one through four at six four, mostly one through three, and sometimes on the same possession. Yeah. So just I really don't even want to step on the toes of what you just said, because it did feel like the situation where no, he clearly wasn't the best player on the team, but he infused them with their purpose, with their with their identity. Yeah, I think he could be a firecracker in transition if you want to talk about his offense at all, at some points in his career, right, it's just if he ever learned to have any semblance of a jump shot, we're probably looking at one a career that would have lasted even longer he did play through his basically his age thirty five season. He played twenty two games for the Pelicans his age thirty sixth season. A much better player had he even been able to shoot on relatively microscopic value, won three point attempts per game and sniffed like thirty three percent even something around there, right. I mean there were playoff series where they would have to stick him in the corner and essentially play four on five on offense, and the defense has completely left him unattended by the time his tenure, and I think it's telling that, like no one gave a shit because he was just so impactful on defense, but like yet they were like, yeah, like we're going to operate with this disadvantage in the half court set because we know that we still need him. Yeah, but yeah, so Zebo checks in just above him that that portion of the fan vote was actually fairly close, not as close as it was between Randolphin and number two, but it was still still somewhat close. Randolph wasn't quite at his peak throughout his Memphis days. He did make the only two All Star Games of his career, but you could see the decline happening while he was in Memphis. I think he's largely carried by the early portion of his time on Beal Street, and that time was special just the low post artist that he was, the physicality that he brought on both ends his desire to compete for every rebound. If he set, if he set a box out against you, you were not getting around him. He created so many second chance opportunities, which I think were largely needed on a team that struggled to produce points and struggled to find good shooters on the wings. But I just can't help but feel like if he had moved, if he was just slightly younger, then this team could have been like a true championship contender with him there. Yeah, I'm with you, probably one of the more underrated passers at his position of all time. I feel like it doesn't get talked enough, probably because you were on a team with Mark Gasol for so long. The other thing that kind of surprised me is every time he took those super deep twos, I expected them to go in, and so I just assumed that his accuracy on those during his time in Memphis would be through the roof relative to the league average. But he shot thirty eight point eight percent on long two super long two sixteen feet up until the three point line during his time at Memphis. I actually thought that was low, and it's higher than a lot of players, but I would have guessed that he was between forty two and forty five. That's just anecdotally, that's just credit to Zach Randoff. He made me feel inevitable on long twos when he would jack those up. He was definitely a player who got to play at the right time. I think that he would have been he would have had trouble thriving in today's NBA. I think just the switchability wasn't quite there. I don't think he was ever going to develop into a capable, consistently capable three point shooter. He played at the right time, and he did so much good in Memphis, And I also think that we tend to forget about, like how impactful he was within that community too. Right he met, he meant a ton to Memphis. He gave back a ton to his community. And you know, I think that a lot of people still associate him with the Portland Trailblazers and the Jailblazers era, where there were questions about his maturity and how he was going to comport himself off the court, and he put all of those questions to bed during his time in Memphis, and I feel like that deserves a lot of credit too. It seems like a genuinely nice guy. Do not know him personally, so I will not say it with any sort of definity, but emphasizing everything you just said also kind of just a fun fact here. I was really I remember looking at this, I was really hoping he was going to sign one more NBA contract because it would have carried him over the two hundred million dollars in career earnings threshold. He's at one hundred and ninety nine point one million dollars in career in earnings for his career just on the basketball courts. And he's also a player that I don't think you would necessarily he was around long enough, but his contracts were also never supermassive, and I don't know that he's a player you'd have been like, oh yeah, he definitely made about two hundred million dollars throughout his career. So I found that just interesting. That's like the most dan Fa Valley thing that you've said on any of these podcasts, looking at looking at the career earnings. Oh yeah, and just the contract of nuance and looking at the exact career earnings. I love it. His highest salary was seventeen point eight million. See now you're just doubling down. I'm just saying yeah, I mean yeah, that's another reason that it would have been interesting if if he played slightly slightly later, if he was slightly younger, like imagine how much he would have earned with those Memphis teams. Kudos to him though, forgetting that final two year deal from the King's right, there was two years and twenty four million dollars or whatever it was. Props to him. That's that's the one where the Kings were looking to make a playoff push until they were bad, and then they obviously weren't looking to make a playoff push, and they yelled at people who thought they were even maybe even harass them via email because they are. Yeah, something like that. No names, no names will be mentioned here. Moving on to number two. Number two is Mike Conley. I think you can you make a case for him at number one? Is it just so obviously Marc Gasol, Because that's that's the important discussion here. I think I think we all know just how good Mike Conley was as a two way point guard. He's not showing it with Utah right now. He might get back to that level, but I mean he probably won't. He was phenomenal, phenomenal in Memphis. You know, some people would go so far as saying that he is the second best player in NBA history who never made an All Star team, behind only Cedric Maxwell. But you're obligated to quote at least one of my articles per podcasts now the second consecutive time that you've done it. It's on purpose. But no, I don't. I don't think there's a case for him over Casol. And you know what it is is because he never dominated the game, and as we saw kind of towards the end of his tenure in Memphis, he could do that and later on his career. So I'm like, oh, Mike kindly can really hit some jumpers off the dribble if he wants to. But his and he kept getting better too, right, And but his like default nature is unrelenting game manager is I believe how I put it, because he's going to put pressure on defenses, but he does it in service of everyone else around him, and then he'll adjust his shot location and volume as as needed basically, And I don't know I would have liked to have seen I think his final yea, or are you quoting from your article? Are you just talking off the top of your head. I'm talking about what I wrote off the top of my head. Why the exact quote is Conley's natural role as an unrelenting game manager. He puts pressure on defenses in service of those around him, and both shot selection and volume can be adjusted as needed, which is like the exact same thing you just said. And I'm just impressed. If I was reading, I probably wouldn't have stumbled through it as heavily. I would be curious, though, to see how he would have fared. I won't say in a different situation, because I don't think Memphis made him, but if his usage was consistently higher, or we saw him put pressure on defenses in service of looking for his own shot first. And not to say that he didn't need to be a high quality passer, but what would have happened if you gave Mike Conley just more of a license to take off the dribble jumpers for half more than half of his career? Whatever you want to say, does he make an All Star team where the Grizzlies just as good or are they better? I don't know, but he is definitely one of the best players, you might even say the second best player in NBA history, and never make an All Star Game. I don't know that he would have gotten there with more volume, just because the West is just so loaded with backcourt talent throughout his career, it would have been tough to make that cut. And this goes I mean, I think you know that I've advocated for a long time that All Star rosters need to be expanded to reflect the growing size of the league as a whole. I mean, the fact that it's still the same size that it was back in the seventies when there were so many fewer teams doesn't really make sense. Rosters have also expanded, It's no longer representative of the same top x percentile of NBA players that it used to be. And I think that a change like that really would have benefited somebody like Conley, where thirty years from now, I hope that people are still hyping up his game, but it's going to be harder to do that because you know you're gonna you're gonna look on his basketball reference page or whatever the website we use him thirty years now, I guess it might not even be a website and see zero All Stars next to his name, and it's just it's unfortunate. He's one of the players who I think is is most poorly represented by his lack of accolades. And look, people gravitate towards the scoring numbers, and they're you're looking at his first six seasons in Memphis, he doesn't average fifteen points per game despite consistently average defensive team, but which is also also seems ridiculous. Yeah, he never just a lockdown defender, but for someone who's like six foot six one to be above average for as long as he was to the All Star conversations specifically, or even if you want to say all MBA just a brutal time to really enter the league for him two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight. So Kobe Bryant still exists, still really good, has his brand. But then you're like, as you're getting deeper into this time, you're talking about Chris Paul Russell Westbrook, James Harden, Stephen Curry, Damian Lillard. The list continues to go on, and I almost I thought he was gonna get moved to Morris forgot about him. Excuse me, Frank Niela Kina in the Eastern Conference. But I just feel like it needs to be said. I was I thought he was going to get moved before the twenty nineteen trade deadline, and there were talks about it early, and I was like, if he gets moved early enough, can they put if he got shipped to the Detroit Pistons or the Miami Heat, put the coaches just put him into the All Star Game because he would have been absolutely, absolutely the shame it didn't happen. But even if even if he had made an All Star appearance, I don't I don't think that he would have moved past Mark Gasol. No, I don't. I just yeah, the team was tailored around Mark Gasol more than it was anybody else exactly. And that was true on both ends. I mean, just the passing from the low post and from the elbows, the ability to score from everywhere, the expanding range that we saw towards the end of his time in Memphis, the consistent defensive excellence. I mean, he was he played like a guy who who knew what the play was going to be before the offense did, and then he was in the right spots and it's it's why I like to circle back to you talking about his weight loss at the beginning of this this podcast episode. Like, I do think that it could really benefit him on defense, if only because he's always been sent such an instinctual defender, and if he can get to those spots as quickly as he recognizes where those spots are, that's really going to benefit the Raptors in a way that it did earlier in his career with Memphis when he was a defensive Player of the Year back in twenty twelve thirteen, because he never found himself in the wrong spot, he never made the wrong decisions. So I hope that that's the level of Marcus all play that we get to see. But yeah, I mean just an obvious, an obvious face of the franchise and best player in franchise history. Do you remember there were sort of rumblings that people thought he was just like cooked defensively around twenty seventeen I think it was twenty seventeen eighteen and then two eighteen twenty ninete when he gets traded. But you just don't look at the personnel that's around him at that point in Memphis and in Aging because Mike Conley to you know, not exactly young. He had Vince Carter for at least one of those seasons you had. Tony Allen's last season falls within that window. I believe there too, and he really proved that wrong in since moving to Toronto. But just his entire time as a defensive anchor in Memphis basically so smart. And since you we talked about it twice now, because we talked about the top of the podcast, I tend to agree with what you're saying about how he'll end up moving. But just somebody that basically decided to erase Joel Embiide in the playoffs last year, and even even Nikolavuchevis just destroyed the guy in round one, that might Those might be the matchups I'd be more concerned about. But then, like you said, because he's so intelligible on the defensive end, he might figure up figure out whatever he gives up in strength now, he'll figure out out how to make it up in spacing, in timing and is because that was so much of what he did in Memphis for basically his entire career. Yep, Yeah, I know he didn't like David Fizdale, but you have to appreciate that all of a sudden, he goes from not chucking threes at all, they're just jacking three point six per game on a thirty eight point eight percent clip. And it was definitely a scheme adjustment rather than him putting in like work in the off season or anything, because he's always been a good shooter in European play and the FIBA competitions that he and his brother Palkasol have dominated in for years. Like he granted, Feba plays with a slightly shorter arc, but he's always shown that capability and it just wasn't unleashed in Memphis until later in his tenure there. And also, if you so, I'm excluding this season because he only appeared in thirty six games and he's shooting eight point three percent on long twos, which don't account for basically any of his shot distribution anymore. But before that, including last year, and for the rest of his career, forty two point four percent on long twos. Yeah, so there was that floor spacing element. It was just never dragged beyond the three point line. Untually, it's very difficult to find areas of Marcosol's game to complain about. I think that's the easiest way to put it. And the passing too, there was a flare to it, just you wanted to not Nicola Yokich because that he's like this different kind of event. He had some of those. He had some of those like behind the back, no look, feeds to baseline cutters like that. That's probably the past I associate with Gasol so prominently. It's like that he just knew where everyone was at at all times without looking on both ends. Just devers, he was more nonchalant about it. I feel like where NICOLEA. Yoki is throwing like such things from such ridiculous distances that it's almost in your face, even though he's not necessarily celebrating after each of these times, just nonchalant greatness. When it came to passing, it's probably the best way to put it. Yep, yep. You ready for some honorable mentions? I am so. We had oj Mayo at nine in the fan vote, which knocked Jonas Valentino's down to eleven. But beyond that we had Courtney Lee and Shane Battier were tied for twelfth, Mike Miller in fourteenth, Dylan Brooks in fifteenth who I actually I considered him from my ten spot. I think his Dylan Brooks are Marshawn Brooks both, but Dylan Brooks any any of the Brooks. I like Dylan Brooks's flammability on offense. I like the intensity he plays with on defense, even if the results haven't always been there. And I feel like he could grow into a guy who is an obvious top ten lock in the next decade. I maybe this is a hot take. I don't think his extension is going to end up aging well. I'm just not sold on him just yet. He feels a little too streaky for me. I'm gonna have to bring on a Grizzlies expert, Sharon Brown or somebody to talk about that at one point, definitely for a different podcast, but a much long check on that incade. But beyond Dylan Brooks, we had Tashawn Prince at sixteen, Tyreek Evans at seventeen, Paucasol at eighteen, Grievous Vasquez at nineteen, you know Udre at twenty, who was tied with Darrell Arthur and Quincy pondexter twenty third, we had tie between Jason Williams Maurice Spates and Tony Roden. Brandon Clark was twenty sixth, tied with John Conchar and Jared Bayliss was twenty eighth with Kyle Lowry, and at thirtieth was Costacufas and Sam Young. I of those names, I think I'm most surprised that Brandon Clark didn't get more love, just knowing that the fans were willing to overlook John Morant's lack of theirness and put him as an obvious top ten inclusion. Just that he barely appeared on any ballots and didn't finish higher than tenth on a single ballot. Was it was interesting to me, given how efficiently he's played and how obviously impactful he is as a rookie. Yeah, you would think just didn't necessarily deserve to be in the top ten when you're looking at samples. I'm not saying yeah, definitely not saying he deserved it. I'm with you. Where did Tony Tony Allen? Where did Courtney leefall any honorable mentions? Did I miss him? He was twelve, tied with Shane Battier, all right, so closer than I just must not have heard you say him because he's seventh and Minutes for the decade on the Grizzlies, which was nice. When I saw that, I was flabber gassed. I didn't think he would be that high, right, And when we were talking about it before we recorded, as we were going through and making our own ballots separately, you know, I think both of us were taken aback that he was that prominent on the Minute's leaderboard. Yeah. I would never have get I wouldn't have guessed top ten, to be honest with you, in minutes, I would not have either. Yeah, that does it for us, though. We will have the Miami Heat podcast for you eventually. That form is already up. Go to NBA dot Underscore math and look forward, or you could check my twitter feed. I'll retweeted it as well. Fill it out. We'll be recording it soon. Until next time, though, we leave you with a shout out too. Grizzly's Legend should have his jersey retired. Ray McCallen