WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.960 --> 00:00:10.480 Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. These guys are your favorites, 2 00:00:10.880 --> 00:00:19.920 so like say subscribe and raid it five stock and greatest con. Yes today 3 00:00:20.000 --> 00:00:28.359 and listening a watching lim always keep its watching. And now you're hosts Cliff 4 00:00:28.440 --> 00:00:33.439 Berrickman and James Bubo Fay. Hello Cliff, Hello Bobo. How are you 5 00:00:33.479 --> 00:00:36.640 doing today, sir? Pretty good? Pretty good? What's happening? Just 6 00:00:36.880 --> 00:00:39.320 uh, I don't know, work and stuff and you know, I just 7 00:00:39.359 --> 00:00:43.079 got back in town from Kentucky. I was at a cryptid con. Oh 8 00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:46.600 yeah, great event. I really enjoyed myself. A lot of good people 9 00:00:46.600 --> 00:00:51.240 out there. I saw Tom Shay. Tom Shay is of course a national 10 00:00:51.280 --> 00:00:56.840 treasure in every single way international pretty much pretty much. Yeah. He passed 11 00:00:56.840 --> 00:01:00.200 on a couple of casts for the NABC. One is a gift to the 12 00:01:00.280 --> 00:01:04.480 NABC, which is a fantastic cast from Trimble County in twenty eighteen. The 13 00:01:04.519 --> 00:01:07.359 cast is from an individual named Goliath that we've been tracking over the last few 14 00:01:07.400 --> 00:01:11.519 years. There's some dramaticallypics on it that maybe came from the Sasquatch, maybe 15 00:01:11.599 --> 00:01:17.280 came from introduction or being tainted somehow, you know, like maybe Tom touched 16 00:01:17.439 --> 00:01:19.719 the foot print before his cast. Not really sure. I actually I'm working 17 00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:26.439 with a forensic expert who is an expert in dramaticlyphics and ballistics of all things, 18 00:01:26.719 --> 00:01:30.400 and he has some questions about the cast. So I was talking to 19 00:01:30.400 --> 00:01:33.400 Tom about that, and of course Tom has nothing to hide. He wants 20 00:01:33.439 --> 00:01:36.719 everybody to look at these things with a really close eye and just get to 21 00:01:36.760 --> 00:01:38.239 the bottom of everything, get to the truth of all this. So I 22 00:01:38.280 --> 00:01:42.519 was talking to Tom about this cast and about the concerns this one gentleman had. 23 00:01:42.560 --> 00:01:45.959 He's a police officer in Georgia. And Tom says, well, I'll 24 00:01:45.959 --> 00:01:48.359 tell you what, I'll just give you the cast for the NABC. I'll 25 00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:51.519 just donate the cast to you and then you can make a higher quality mold 26 00:01:51.519 --> 00:01:53.599 than what you have and then send it off to him. Which is really 27 00:01:53.840 --> 00:02:00.079 a fantastic thing and so generous and really speaks volumes to Tom Shay's character that 28 00:02:00.159 --> 00:02:05.719 he he just wants qualified people to closely examine the evidence and get to the 29 00:02:05.719 --> 00:02:09.039 truth. So I got that one back at home, and also while while 30 00:02:09.080 --> 00:02:13.360 he was bringing a cast, I specifically asked him, you know, now, 31 00:02:13.400 --> 00:02:16.759 there are two fantastic handprints that Tom cast in twenty sixteen, not that 32 00:02:16.840 --> 00:02:20.199 real big one that you got to hold in person. But there's these two 33 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:23.560 other ones, right, and it's the same hand that the fingers are curled 34 00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:29.439 in one and protruding to the ground, and the other well, apparently there 35 00:02:29.479 --> 00:02:31.960 were there was a footprint associated with it. Tom sent me a photograph of 36 00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:36.000 the two hand casts and a footprint. I go, Tom, there's a 37 00:02:36.039 --> 00:02:38.360 footprint. He goes, yeah, I never told you that. I said, 38 00:02:38.360 --> 00:02:39.840 no, he never told me that. So well, hey, and 39 00:02:39.960 --> 00:02:43.800 so like a year goes by or eight months go by, and I figured 40 00:02:43.800 --> 00:02:46.879 out, I'm going to see Tom at Cryptidcon and I'm revamping my presentations for 41 00:02:46.919 --> 00:02:51.400 this coming season. I think I'm going to do something on handprints. I 42 00:02:51.439 --> 00:02:53.280 did something at handprints a number of years ago, but so many more have 43 00:02:53.360 --> 00:02:57.319 been uncovered since then, and so much new information has come out. I 44 00:02:57.360 --> 00:03:00.159 want to revisit that topic for this coming season, and you know of conferences. 45 00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:04.680 So anyway, I said, Tom, would you mind lending me that 46 00:03:04.680 --> 00:03:07.199 that footprint because I want to use it and see if there's any correlation hand 47 00:03:07.280 --> 00:03:09.280 size and foot size and all this other stuff. He goes, oh, 48 00:03:09.360 --> 00:03:13.400 yeah, no problem. So I see Tom, and he goes, hey, 49 00:03:13.439 --> 00:03:16.199 I got that cast for you, And I unwrapped the bubble wrap and 50 00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:19.879 there's a half cast there. I go, Tom, this isn't the one 51 00:03:19.919 --> 00:03:21.719 you show me. He goes, oh, no, I couldn't find that 52 00:03:21.759 --> 00:03:23.319 one that I showed you. But this was also in the trackway. Huh, 53 00:03:23.520 --> 00:03:30.719 said Tom? There were two? There were two? What else are 54 00:03:30.719 --> 00:03:32.639 you hiding from me? You know, not that he's hiding anything, of 55 00:03:32.680 --> 00:03:35.680 course, but you know what I mean, it's like, oh my god. 56 00:03:35.879 --> 00:03:38.400 So that a really interesting half cast. And then there's still that other 57 00:03:38.439 --> 00:03:43.120 footprint that he's not quite sure where it is because he's got tubs of these 58 00:03:43.159 --> 00:03:46.159 things, right, He's been collecting these prints since the eighties. So you 59 00:03:46.159 --> 00:03:50.159 know, I can't hold it against them. I'm rather disorganized as well, 60 00:03:50.199 --> 00:03:52.599 you know. Yeah. Anyway, so the Crypto Con was great in that 61 00:03:52.680 --> 00:03:54.479 sort of way, and I don't know that that's pretty much it, really, 62 00:03:54.719 --> 00:04:00.520 although I did come home to a very very sick dog. Fortunately, 63 00:04:00.840 --> 00:04:02.879 Yeah, so she's not I mean, she's doing better now, but you 64 00:04:02.879 --> 00:04:06.719 know, I mean she understandably has separation anxiety issues and has a lot of 65 00:04:06.759 --> 00:04:11.439 baggage from you know, being tied to a tree in the woods alone as 66 00:04:11.439 --> 00:04:15.280 a puppy, and then you know, we stumbled upon her and saved her 67 00:04:15.319 --> 00:04:17.720 life basically. You know, so she's got some baggage, but then she's 68 00:04:17.839 --> 00:04:23.120 used to like Melissa being home when I'm gone, But this time Melissa came 69 00:04:23.160 --> 00:04:28.160 with me because she later drove out to Pittsburgh after the event to surprise her 70 00:04:28.160 --> 00:04:31.839 mother for her seventieth birthday party. So happy birthday to mom of course out 71 00:04:31.839 --> 00:04:35.199 there. Yeah. So, so she kind of freaked out while we're gone, 72 00:04:35.319 --> 00:04:40.480 got in the trash ate some stuff and then stopped eating anything. Then 73 00:04:40.839 --> 00:04:43.720 she wasn't pooping and all that other you know, dog issues and stuff. 74 00:04:43.759 --> 00:04:46.720 She's slowly rebounding and the stress is going away. I'm literally looking at her 75 00:04:46.839 --> 00:04:49.319 right now. So but yeah, things are getting better for her. But 76 00:04:50.800 --> 00:04:54.120 they don't like having a sick dog. You know how that is, Bubbs. 77 00:04:54.600 --> 00:04:58.680 Oh god, yeah, it's because you're like, talk to me, 78 00:04:58.720 --> 00:05:00.800 Talk to me, you know what's going on? Just tell me what's wrong. 79 00:05:01.199 --> 00:05:04.399 Yeah, but that's me, man. What's up with you? Getting 80 00:05:04.399 --> 00:05:08.920 ready for Bart to come up tomorrow night, tomorrow night, Thanksgiving Eve. 81 00:05:09.240 --> 00:05:11.959 Well, he's gonna he's gonna take off and then he'll probably won't get here 82 00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:16.319 until Friday morning, and then uh, we're gonna do our annual squatching and 83 00:05:16.360 --> 00:05:23.079 gambling football watching it. We'll be out. We're not gonna go too far 84 00:05:23.160 --> 00:05:26.319 out like, well, we'll have to keep it close where we can come 85 00:05:26.319 --> 00:05:30.040 in and watch games and be in internet range. So get his bets in. 86 00:05:30.680 --> 00:05:33.399 Well, very good. I wish you good luck on both counts, 87 00:05:33.560 --> 00:05:39.279 big footing and gambling. Yeah. Nice. Nice. He's just gonna go 88 00:05:39.319 --> 00:05:44.079 to the local spots basically, Yeah, then we're gonna go. Polly Pizza 89 00:05:44.079 --> 00:05:48.639 has gotta he's got. He lives out out behind like like between Fieldbrook and 90 00:05:48.720 --> 00:05:53.079 Mckinneyville, come out in Mount's on those those coastal hills like just south of 91 00:05:53.120 --> 00:05:56.279 Trinidad, and I get a lot of reports out of there, and I've 92 00:05:56.600 --> 00:06:00.759 and I should spend more time there because it's so close, but I kind 93 00:06:00.759 --> 00:06:02.480 of it's just, uh, there's there's house. I mean, there's you 94 00:06:02.480 --> 00:06:06.040 know, there's a couple of thousand people live in that valley, and so 95 00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:10.279 I try to stay away from like anywhere likely it could be like overlap, 96 00:06:10.480 --> 00:06:14.040 like because there's so you can get so far out there around here, you 97 00:06:14.079 --> 00:06:16.519 know, like where there's no houses at all. I try to go to 98 00:06:16.519 --> 00:06:20.680 those places, but there's reports coming consistently through there. So we're gonna check 99 00:06:20.759 --> 00:06:24.519 that out and see what we can find. Oh that's cool, you know. 100 00:06:24.600 --> 00:06:28.000 That reminded me of something that's super big. Aggrig aggravation. By the 101 00:06:28.040 --> 00:06:31.079 way, I was at the museum today. It's it's Wednesday tomorrow, Thanksgiving 102 00:06:31.079 --> 00:06:33.519 for the people listening, that's when we record these things. So I was 103 00:06:33.519 --> 00:06:36.240 at the museum today for a few hours or whatever. I only took a 104 00:06:36.360 --> 00:06:39.519 I only worked for a little over a half day because of my dog. 105 00:06:39.560 --> 00:06:42.040 Of course, I want to come and make sure she wasn't gonna crap all 106 00:06:42.040 --> 00:06:44.279 over the bottom floor of the house like she did when I was gone. 107 00:06:45.360 --> 00:06:46.879 And then uh, but so before I left, I like, well, 108 00:06:46.920 --> 00:06:49.199 oh, there's a message on the machine. I'm just gonna double check this 109 00:06:49.519 --> 00:06:51.759 or erase it if it's old. And it was a woman's voice. I'm 110 00:06:51.800 --> 00:06:55.680 not going to say the name or anything says yeah, my name is so 111 00:06:55.720 --> 00:06:58.800 and so, and uh, I don't know if this is the number I'm 112 00:06:58.800 --> 00:07:02.959 supposed to call. But I saw something and I don't mean it might have 113 00:07:03.040 --> 00:07:08.560 been a bigfoot and I got it on the video on my phone. A 114 00:07:08.600 --> 00:07:11.439 couple of us did, A couple of my friends, and is this the 115 00:07:11.519 --> 00:07:14.319 number for that? My name is so and so, and you can call 116 00:07:14.360 --> 00:07:17.399 me back my numbers five oh three click, and then it hung up. 117 00:07:18.839 --> 00:07:21.600 It hung up, and then of course, you know, I what and 118 00:07:21.800 --> 00:07:26.680 I fumbled back through the incoming calls. You know, on the store phone. 119 00:07:26.680 --> 00:07:30.040 This is the store's phone, and the number that came in at the 120 00:07:30.120 --> 00:07:33.680 time she called this was yesterday. By the way, the number she came 121 00:07:33.759 --> 00:07:38.360 at the time she called was a number form like six oh one area code 122 00:07:38.439 --> 00:07:41.759 or something like that. So I called back, and then I called Nico 123 00:07:41.839 --> 00:07:44.079 the manager, and said, oh yeah, that came that yesterday. I 124 00:07:44.120 --> 00:07:46.920 called her back to and anyway, that was yesterday. So somebody here in 125 00:07:46.959 --> 00:07:50.879 the Portland area, at least someone who has a Portland phone number. She 126 00:07:51.040 --> 00:07:56.319 and her friends apparently possibly saw a sasquatch. Release think they did, to 127 00:07:56.319 --> 00:07:58.800 the point where they called the Bigfoot Museum to tell them about it, and 128 00:07:58.959 --> 00:08:03.680 has video. So so that's making me pull my eyeballs out. Yeah, 129 00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:05.720 it might have been yesterday, might have been the day before. Oh man, 130 00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:09.160 as I rained that hard since I got home. There's probably prints in 131 00:08:09.160 --> 00:08:13.240 the ground because it's all soft and muddy and video. But man, such 132 00:08:13.279 --> 00:08:15.759 as the life of a big Footer. It's like, oh, Cliff, 133 00:08:15.759 --> 00:08:18.360 there's no Murphy's Laws, just a blah blah blah up here. There clearly 134 00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:22.879 is Murphy's Law guaranteed guaranteed. Yeah, anybody who says that hasn't been big 135 00:08:22.920 --> 00:08:26.079 footing very long. I think we got some good stuff caught up today. 136 00:08:26.639 --> 00:08:31.279 Fantastic. Yeah, of course are our guests today. And I may get 137 00:08:31.320 --> 00:08:35.240 the name wrong, Like, it's just so funny. I've known of these 138 00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:41.720 people and what seems like forever forever actually, and I've kind of known them 139 00:08:41.759 --> 00:08:45.159 emailed here and there and stuff, and then lo and behold once a year 140 00:08:45.240 --> 00:08:48.360 so they start wandering into the museum and I'm greeting them and they and I 141 00:08:48.399 --> 00:08:50.399 remember last year it was like, hey, Cliff, I'm so and so, 142 00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:52.279 oh my god, I know you are. And then this year the 143 00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:54.200 other half came in. I said, what, why haven't you been on 144 00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:58.120 our podcast yet? So yeah, I believe the name of the thing and 145 00:08:58.159 --> 00:09:01.559 correct me if I'm wrong. Of course. I think it's the Michigan Recording 146 00:09:01.600 --> 00:09:05.840 Project and the two folks that headed are so deeply involved they might as well 147 00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:09.679 head it are here with This is Jim and Stacy Flowers for our old for 148 00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:13.559 like old folks like you and I Bobs. That's a name out of the 149 00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:16.960 past, all right, So Jim and Stacy Flowers, welcome to Bigfoot and 150 00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:20.200 Beyond with me and that guy. Thank you nic here, Yeah, thank 151 00:09:20.200 --> 00:09:24.080 you so much for setting aside a little time. We made this arrangement a 152 00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:28.879 couple of weeks ago. I mean, Stacy was in the museum I think 153 00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:31.440 like last month or two months ago, I don't know, and Jim was 154 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:33.440 in last year if I remember correctly, although I do have a pretty lastic 155 00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:37.879 sense of time. But how fortuitous to run across y'all, and now to 156 00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:41.639 have you on the podcast and your perfect guests, because I think that you're 157 00:09:41.639 --> 00:09:46.919 best known for the vocalizations that have been recorded off one particular property, although 158 00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:50.399 again I'm wrong about a lot of stuff, so maybe I'm wrong about that 159 00:09:50.440 --> 00:09:52.639 too. That's right, we've been on that property for since two thousand and 160 00:09:52.720 --> 00:09:56.919 five. Since two thousand and five, that seems like forever ago. But 161 00:09:56.960 --> 00:10:01.279 how long before that were you big footing? Oh? Well, me only 162 00:10:01.320 --> 00:10:07.360 a couple of years. Jim, he was actually eight when he had his 163 00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:15.799 probable sighting and started chasing reports and newspaper articles and that kind of thing. 164 00:10:16.360 --> 00:10:18.120 Eight years old, So, Jim, I wasn't even where you had a 165 00:10:18.159 --> 00:10:20.720 sighting. Why don't you tell us about that? To get us going here. 166 00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:26.519 Basically, my grandma lived on the edge of an apple orchard at Athens, 167 00:10:26.600 --> 00:10:33.320 Michigan. One day I was out playing in the yard, saw a 168 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:39.200 huge thing walk through just the inside corner of the field and the orchard there. 169 00:10:41.080 --> 00:10:43.080 It just disappeared. Scared the hell out of me. I ran back 170 00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:48.000 inside and didn't go back out the rest of the day, probably about wasn't 171 00:10:48.039 --> 00:10:54.799 A week later, there was an article in the newspaper about another bigfoot sighting 172 00:10:54.840 --> 00:10:58.080 had a track find in the area, and I just kind of like, 173 00:10:58.960 --> 00:11:01.960 you know, my I was in mind put two and two together, and 174 00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:05.879 I just started reading everything I could and finding every newspaper article I could, 175 00:11:07.399 --> 00:11:11.080 and everything just kind of snowball from there. So how did you get back 176 00:11:11.080 --> 00:11:13.320 in? This is back in the day. I'm assuming that you know what 177 00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:16.399 you're like. I imagine you're about my age, and I turned fifty three 178 00:11:16.399 --> 00:11:18.320 next week, so I'm assuming that you're about my age close. Yeah, 179 00:11:18.360 --> 00:11:22.080 I'm just a little bit older than you then. Yeah, yeah, so 180 00:11:22.120 --> 00:11:24.399 this is back back, pre internet and whatnot. So your only real sources 181 00:11:24.440 --> 00:11:30.039 of information were books, which I still advocate as being the primary source of 182 00:11:30.080 --> 00:11:33.120 information for all of our listeners, even beyond podcasts and television and stuff, 183 00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:37.240 and also newspaper articles. What did you do? Did you collect them and 184 00:11:37.240 --> 00:11:39.360 put them in a scrap book or something, or did you just read them 185 00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:41.000 and take notes or did you just read? What did you do it? 186 00:11:41.039 --> 00:11:45.480 Back then? At the time they had a scrap book? I cut them 187 00:11:45.480 --> 00:11:50.799 out and stuck them with tape on an old photograph book that my grandma had 188 00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:54.399 and just kept going from there. Unfortunately, she also thought that with the 189 00:11:54.440 --> 00:12:01.200 interest in Bigfoot, that I wanted everything from the National Inquirer. So I 190 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:07.679 had a scrap book full of everything from whoever had the Bigfoot's baby to the 191 00:12:07.799 --> 00:12:11.440 latest flavor of the week from the local newspaper, some of the national ones 192 00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:15.320 when they picked up the story. Well that's sweet, though, that's, 193 00:12:15.720 --> 00:12:18.440 however misguided that might be. That's very very sweet of her, you got 194 00:12:18.440 --> 00:12:20.399 to admit, So, do you still have this footo? Album. I 195 00:12:20.440 --> 00:12:28.080 don't think I do. My mom may have it somewhere, but my grandma 196 00:12:28.159 --> 00:12:31.919 passed away several years ago when I was stationed in the maybe and a lot 197 00:12:31.919 --> 00:12:35.879 of her stuff that was there just kind of disappeared. The house she lived 198 00:12:35.879 --> 00:12:41.559 in and got sold. So even the apple orchard is now a small subdivision. 199 00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:43.200 Sure, sure they had they put up a parking lot, so to 200 00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:48.720 speak. Yeah, well, gosh, So so you started around eight Were 201 00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:50.720 you doing field investigations? Man like, did you ride your bike over like, 202 00:12:50.799 --> 00:12:54.919 you know, like a stranger thing sort of thing and I doing a 203 00:12:54.960 --> 00:12:58.639 field or it was just collecting information at that point at that point, collecting 204 00:12:58.720 --> 00:13:03.000 information. I think I actually as well as I could investigated the first report, 205 00:13:03.039 --> 00:13:07.200 I was probably about thirteen. I don't remember the details of it. 206 00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:11.039 It was a local kid who thought he saw something in the words too, 207 00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:15.159 so we just kind of like compared notes and went from there. I don't 208 00:13:15.159 --> 00:13:18.240 even remember his name. It was so long ago. That's cool. That's 209 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:22.120 really neat now, Stacy, Yeah, how did you get involved in this 210 00:13:22.159 --> 00:13:26.639 whole subject here? Well, my interest goes back to when I was eleven 211 00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:28.720 or twelve, way back to the mid seventies, when it was all kind 212 00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:33.200 of first blew up. In the first place, there was a movie coming 213 00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:35.600 out in the theaters and I can't remember the name of it, may have 214 00:13:35.639 --> 00:13:39.519 been Sasquatched something or other, but there was a commercial would come on the 215 00:13:39.519 --> 00:13:43.440 television back in the day when you had to get up and change the antenna 216 00:13:43.519 --> 00:13:48.720 and the channel on your big console TV. And in the commercial it played 217 00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:54.120 this vocalization as long howl. And the first time I heard that, it 218 00:13:54.279 --> 00:13:58.039 freaked me out so bad. And I don't know why. I almost had 219 00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:03.159 like a physical visceral reaction to it, you know. So here's this kid 220 00:14:03.159 --> 00:14:05.440 getting scared of this commercial, and every time it would come on and have 221 00:14:05.480 --> 00:14:09.440 to get up and change a channel real quick before that sound would happen. 222 00:14:09.720 --> 00:14:13.039 And from then on, as a kid and growing up, Bigfoot was like 223 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:16.919 my boogeyman. That was the thing I was afraid of in the dark. 224 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:18.720 It was a thing that freaked me out when the family would go camping, 225 00:14:20.559 --> 00:14:22.600 you know, and I always just felt like something was out there, but 226 00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:26.759 I never really I kind of I didn't really lose interest, but there was 227 00:14:26.759 --> 00:14:31.960 nothing to keep my interest for a long long time, many years. And 228 00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:35.559 when I first got online. One day, I was thinking around just kind 229 00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:37.600 of learning how to use the internet and the computer and all of that, 230 00:14:37.639 --> 00:14:41.080 and I said, Hi, what if people are still talking about pickfoot? 231 00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:45.279 And I did a search, and god, you know, when all was 232 00:14:45.279 --> 00:14:48.240 out there, tons of stuff. This is This is in the day when 233 00:14:48.440 --> 00:14:52.639 there were only like discussion forums and individual websites and things. And I was 234 00:14:52.720 --> 00:14:56.840 shocked by how many people were still talking about this and making claims. And 235 00:14:56.879 --> 00:15:03.159 the more I read the it sounded like there's maybe really something to this. 236 00:15:03.399 --> 00:15:05.360 And before I knew it, I was just hoping the subject. And so 237 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:11.679 I spent a brief time in the BFRO back in two thousand and three, 238 00:15:11.679 --> 00:15:16.519 I believe, and then the group that we camp with got together in two 239 00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:22.480 thousand and four, the large group that got together that had met quote unquote 240 00:15:22.559 --> 00:15:26.960 met on the Bigfoot forums way back in its early days, and we had 241 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:31.360 a weekend camping trip, and you know, people of similar mindsets kind of 242 00:15:31.399 --> 00:15:35.559 split off into different groups and things, and that led to us getting together 243 00:15:35.600 --> 00:15:41.879 and doing our thing, and then we started on this property in two thousand 244 00:15:41.879 --> 00:15:46.600 and five. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo, 245 00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:54.799 we'll be right back after these messages. How did you find the property? 246 00:15:56.120 --> 00:16:03.039 Well, there was a BFO investigator named Casey Carnes who Paul Wilson and I 247 00:16:03.480 --> 00:16:06.879 were you had you talked to him? Okay, so just Paul and I 248 00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:11.120 had talked to him each separately online a couple of times, and he was 249 00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:15.440 supposed to join us in our original spot one evening and he was going to 250 00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:18.320 bring out a guy. He said, that got a guy I'm going to 251 00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:21.120 bring out. He's got some stories, he's got some things happening on his 252 00:16:21.159 --> 00:16:23.639 property. I'm going to bring him out with me and you guys can meet 253 00:16:23.679 --> 00:16:29.360 him and talk to him and stuff. So Casey Lauda not coming because his 254 00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:33.080 mother was sick, but this guy with her, I should say, convoluted 255 00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:38.879 instructions and way back on dirt two tracks managed to find us after dark and 256 00:16:40.120 --> 00:16:44.279 the landowner, he came out by himself, spent the night and we talked 257 00:16:44.279 --> 00:16:45.720 and talked and talked, and he liked us. We liked him, so 258 00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:51.600 he invited us out to the property and we went later that summer for the 259 00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:55.200 first time. So it was a BFR report basically, what now? What 260 00:16:55.320 --> 00:16:56.480 was in more? You know, have to tell me everything, of course, 261 00:16:56.559 --> 00:17:00.039 or we don't use your discretion because there are a couple people listen to 262 00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:04.880 this. What was in that report? Was it just a siting, was 263 00:17:04.880 --> 00:17:08.400 a track find? Was it ongoing stuff? I mean, what how aware 264 00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:12.400 of the situation were you going into this? I can answer that one because 265 00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:15.440 I've seen a newspaper article for it. Well, there was a newspaper article. 266 00:17:15.799 --> 00:17:22.480 There were actually two. One dates back to the seventies where basically his 267 00:17:22.519 --> 00:17:30.160 grandmother had a incident where it came through, left giant footprints and was picking 268 00:17:30.200 --> 00:17:34.119 pea pods. And I guess the local paper came out and kind of investigated 269 00:17:34.119 --> 00:17:38.160 to the best of their ability, but didn't find anything. The other one 270 00:17:38.240 --> 00:17:41.559 was in the uh there was an instant with several boys. I used to 271 00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:47.079 run a hont how he used to run a hound house, and several boys 272 00:17:47.359 --> 00:17:51.559 had basically saw a bigfoot. So the local you know, kids, one 273 00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:52.960 tells the other, the next one tells the next one next week. You 274 00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:57.119 know, all the newspapers out there with reporters or a reporter from the local 275 00:17:57.160 --> 00:18:02.680 paper doing interview and checking out in the incident, and that showed up in 276 00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:07.640 the local paper. And I think That's basically what the BVFR or report was 277 00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:11.279 actually entailing when that came out too. But it turns out that Casey and 278 00:18:11.319 --> 00:18:15.920 this guy had known each other years before. Neither one was familiar with the 279 00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:21.839 other's interest in or background until this article came out in the newspaper. Was 280 00:18:21.880 --> 00:18:23.559 the reporter had promised he wouldn't use his family's name, and he did. 281 00:18:23.599 --> 00:18:29.400 Anyway, Casey happened to see the paper and called our guy and said, 282 00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:33.839 hey, guess what, so that you know the property being worked in investigated 283 00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:40.119 kind of came out of that too, basically what they call Class C reports. 284 00:18:40.359 --> 00:18:41.680 It wasn't even a direct observation or anything. It was just like, 285 00:18:41.680 --> 00:18:47.039 hey, this is happening in this general area. Now that the property owner 286 00:18:47.079 --> 00:18:51.240 was he aware of this previous activity? Oh yeah, he's lived on or 287 00:18:51.319 --> 00:18:56.240 near the property. It's family property, but his awareness of these things goes 288 00:18:56.279 --> 00:19:00.519 back to the seventies also, And was that because sightings or footprints or weird 289 00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:07.000 things or all of it? Okay, okay, how big of an area 290 00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:08.400 are we talking about? Do you think? I mean not just the property. 291 00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:11.440 I mean the property could be two acres and still have a ton of 292 00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:15.720 stuff going on. But how big it is this green belt or like pocket 293 00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:19.480 of woods that these things are frequenting. Well, some of us been sold 294 00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:26.160 off because we actually bought some of it six hundred anchors at one point, 295 00:19:26.279 --> 00:19:30.480 maybe just a little bit more. But it's also basically right on the edge 296 00:19:30.519 --> 00:19:36.799 of the Manistee National Forest, within my easy walking distance. Now, what 297 00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:41.200 what sort of things do you think before we get into vocalizations and your individual 298 00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:48.519 experiences, what sort of things does this particular property and the locality of where 299 00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:52.400 people are and where you're finding these things go on? What sort of things 300 00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:56.319 are here that you think might be drawing the sasquatches in repeatedly. Well, 301 00:19:56.359 --> 00:20:02.240 it's right on a river, a very windy river. It feeds into the 302 00:20:02.240 --> 00:20:06.160 most major river system I think in the state pretty much. Yeah, we're 303 00:20:06.200 --> 00:20:10.559 very we're very close to the Muskegon River. That would probably be the big 304 00:20:10.599 --> 00:20:15.880 thing. There is a lot of farmland, but to the north and to 305 00:20:15.960 --> 00:20:19.119 the east of where we are specifically, there's just miles and miles and miles 306 00:20:19.119 --> 00:20:22.079 and miles of woods, Okay, and that farmland, what do they grow 307 00:20:22.119 --> 00:20:25.960 on it? Do you know? The most common crop? Is it corn? 308 00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:30.519 Or is it alfalfa or is it corn alfalfa? Oh, varies because 309 00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:34.279 toy beams. It varies because of the when they do it, they rotate 310 00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:38.759 the cross for the nitrogen content, so it's not the same crop every year. 311 00:20:40.759 --> 00:20:44.000 Apparently I'm not a farmer, but I grew up in farm country, 312 00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:48.680 and apparently that also of nitrogen content and the soil or something. I was 313 00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:52.480 thinking because you said corn and then alfalfa, of course, and so all 314 00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:55.880 of those things are deer magnets, which is what I was kind of thinking 315 00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:59.440 about, Like what's drawing in the prey species here, and maybe those farms 316 00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:03.160 have something to do. There's a lot of fruit trees, naturally wild apple 317 00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:11.160 trees, a lot of berry bushes, blackberries, raspberries, red raspberries, 318 00:21:11.720 --> 00:21:19.359 blueberries, mushrooms. Pretty much that in the river is a designated trout stream. 319 00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:25.079 So there's a huge bunch of food there, plus crayfish if you're if 320 00:21:25.119 --> 00:21:29.400 they're really wanted something that small or hard to eat. So when you first 321 00:21:29.400 --> 00:21:33.960 started investigating the property in its vicinity, what were some of the clues that 322 00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:37.480 you might have gotten, either things you heard or found or saw that kind 323 00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:40.200 of indicated you were on the right track. And you found a good area. 324 00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:44.480 Honestly, the first time that I, well, Paul and I went 325 00:21:44.519 --> 00:21:48.400 first, and it was just a day trip and driving in, you know, 326 00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:52.920 you're looking at that north south road and there's there's houses and there's cabins 327 00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:57.319 and farmland, and I'm thinking, okay, there is no way, but 328 00:21:57.359 --> 00:22:00.880 at least it's a nice day for a drive and walk in the woods. 329 00:22:00.119 --> 00:22:06.160 So I wasn't expecting anything. And we really once we got back to the 330 00:22:06.200 --> 00:22:10.559 woods and I saw, you know, the actual layout of the land later 331 00:22:10.680 --> 00:22:12.799 land, it was like, Okay, we've got we've got nice water here, 332 00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:18.240 We've got tons of woods. I guess it's possible. And it was 333 00:22:18.759 --> 00:22:22.079 I think our first big overnight trip there that we got our one and only 334 00:22:22.200 --> 00:22:26.880 vocalization of that year, which wasn't convincing. You know, I think we 335 00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:30.160 were still leaning towards okay, that's somebody messing around with us, and we 336 00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:33.400 kind of were for the first couple of years, not neces necessarily thinking we 337 00:22:33.400 --> 00:22:37.640 were being hoaxed, but always keeping that thought in the forefront, just in 338 00:22:37.720 --> 00:22:42.599 case. How far a part of the homesteads spread in this area is that 339 00:22:42.680 --> 00:22:45.799 everybody have like five acres or something or is it just ridiculously large because you 340 00:22:45.799 --> 00:22:49.039 mentioned six hundred acres a little while ago. Is that the standard? No, 341 00:22:49.279 --> 00:22:52.559 I don't think so. It just depends. There are some people who 342 00:22:53.160 --> 00:22:56.799 you know, have a house just on like four or five acres. There's 343 00:22:56.839 --> 00:23:04.319 some farms that are hundreds of acres, dairy farms too, cattle and some 344 00:23:04.359 --> 00:23:08.359 of those are big. Yeah. There's also a lot of seasonal cabins that 345 00:23:08.440 --> 00:23:14.839 aren't occupied year round. So for you know, five months out a year, 346 00:23:15.160 --> 00:23:18.680 nobody is there. Okay, So you start going onto this property a 347 00:23:18.680 --> 00:23:21.839 little bit, you hear a vocalization, but nothing you can take to the 348 00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:25.720 bank. It sounds like, but you've devoted so much of your time to 349 00:23:25.839 --> 00:23:30.240 this one location and it can't just be convenience. What really turned your head 350 00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:33.279 around and say, wow, we need to focus all of our efforts here. 351 00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:37.519 What was that the first few years, the first couple of years we 352 00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:41.480 were there, you know, we didn't hear anything for the rest of that 353 00:23:41.559 --> 00:23:44.240 year. That was two thousand and five. In two thousand and six we 354 00:23:44.319 --> 00:23:49.440 started hearing them much more regularly, and six and seven it was we could 355 00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:55.079 almost time it to within five minutes or so of about eleven thirty at night, 356 00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:59.000 we'd start hearing these screams from across the river. If they came a 357 00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:02.319 little bit earlier, they were coming from the south. If they came later, 358 00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:04.279 they were coming from the north. So good almost. You know pattern 359 00:24:04.359 --> 00:24:11.720 this travel you know this north south travel route. They were taking the turning 360 00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:14.079 point for us. Where we were like, okay, this is the real 361 00:24:14.119 --> 00:24:19.599 deal. Was that our landowner had gotten a video clip and we went up 362 00:24:19.640 --> 00:24:25.839 one day just expecting to see a vague image of you know, a dark 363 00:24:25.880 --> 00:24:30.599 thing moving through the woods. We expect blurry and you know, completely inconclusive, 364 00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:36.240 and it blew our socks off. Did the video did? He'd been 365 00:24:36.759 --> 00:24:40.319 our guy, and we've seen his boxes and videotapes. He his whole life 366 00:24:40.359 --> 00:24:44.920 has had video cameras and has gone out and just videotape wildlife, miscellaneous, 367 00:24:45.680 --> 00:24:52.119 frogs, deer, you know everything. And he'd been out there sitting to 368 00:24:52.160 --> 00:24:57.960 the east of directly to the east of where our camp site is is a 369 00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:03.079 field and he was sitting at what we call the north Woods. He was 370 00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:07.319 sitting on the north wood line and a couple of cement blocks he had sitting 371 00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:08.799 out there, and he heard a couple of what he thought some like pig 372 00:25:08.839 --> 00:25:14.400 storms. He thought it was a bear, and he turned the camera over 373 00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:18.799 that way, and in this video you could see a couple of pine trees 374 00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:25.000 and he's kind of panning back and forth. You see what we thought were 375 00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:30.519 trunks. You see a couple of those trunks start moving. And as you 376 00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:37.400 watch, this figure comes out from behind those trees and was walking north, 377 00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:41.480 drops down into like a little gully there. You can you're only seeing it 378 00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:47.200 maybe from what knees up. Maybe, yeah, you could see the buttet. 379 00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:48.680 I don't think we could. I don't think we would really see the 380 00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:52.279 knees at that point anyway. And it was just like you know in the 381 00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:56.960 yeah, the Patterson film where you can see like the muscle contraction like in 382 00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:00.519 the deltoids. It's a shoulders swinging back, you know, you can see 383 00:26:00.519 --> 00:26:04.079 the muscle movement in the back. You could see that clearly, clearly, 384 00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:08.880 and it keeps going. It drops it down into this gully where you can't 385 00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:14.759 see it at all. So he takes off running further into the north woods, 386 00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:18.920 thinking if it's going to follow that gully. It sort of loops around 387 00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:22.559 to the right and comes up excuse me near a hunting blinds. It's been 388 00:26:22.599 --> 00:26:25.920 up there for years. That was up there for years. I don't think 389 00:26:25.960 --> 00:26:33.240 it's up there now. And yeah, and you see from a really long 390 00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:37.440 distance, not really long distance, but you just kind of very vaguely see 391 00:26:37.480 --> 00:26:41.200 some movement between the trees, and then it comes up back out of the 392 00:26:41.240 --> 00:26:47.119 gully near that hunting blind and takes off and continues moving right along the edge 393 00:26:47.160 --> 00:26:53.480 of that gully off to like the east northeast. And yeah, it was 394 00:26:53.599 --> 00:26:59.119 really like, even just thinking about it now, we we were just speechless, 395 00:26:59.400 --> 00:27:03.079 just speechless. I didn't realize we were watching Jim had taken a knee 396 00:27:03.079 --> 00:27:04.200 on the floor. He'd gone, and he'd gone in the house. He 397 00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:08.480 had a big screen like projector TV in there. Had taken a knee on 398 00:27:08.519 --> 00:27:11.519 the floor, and I had a hand on his shoulder, and I didn't 399 00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:18.519 realize I was squeezing his shoulder so hard just watching this. I yeah, 400 00:27:19.119 --> 00:27:23.720 it was. The video has since degraded to the point where you just can't 401 00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:27.200 see anything on it, which is sad. Yeah, I was. I 402 00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:33.200 always advocate for the digitization of all magnetic tapes and v vhs is and all 403 00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:36.880 that stuff, and because that's exactly what happens. You play it, and 404 00:27:36.920 --> 00:27:42.160 it just over time that wears a way. I even showed him exactly how 405 00:27:42.200 --> 00:27:45.119 to do it, gave him the equipment to do it. But he is 406 00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:49.359 not what I would call the most technologically adept. He's even worse than I 407 00:27:49.400 --> 00:27:55.559 am. So the difference, I guess I don't tend to procrastinate as much 408 00:27:55.559 --> 00:27:57.880 as he does. But well, I often wonder how many good pieces of 409 00:27:57.880 --> 00:28:03.559 footage are out there that are gonna start cascading upon us after discovery. There's 410 00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:06.000 got to be more. There have to be more. Oh, certainly, 411 00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:07.119 I would, I would think. So I've heard about some, I've just 412 00:28:07.240 --> 00:28:11.799 never seen it. So so you saw this and you holy smokestar here, 413 00:28:11.880 --> 00:28:15.359 I've heard them a couple of times here. I don't know if you ever 414 00:28:15.359 --> 00:28:18.160 found any footprints or anything. But there was enough indication at this location to 415 00:28:18.200 --> 00:28:22.359 start devoting some resources and time. Oh yeah, yeah, very good. 416 00:28:22.359 --> 00:28:27.920 And what was what? What was the perhaps the procedure, what became standard 417 00:28:27.920 --> 00:28:33.240 operating procedure for trying to work this property? What would you really focus on 418 00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:37.319 and how would it get done? Actually has changed and now we're just in 419 00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:41.240 it to experience what we can experience, but initially when we're trying to get 420 00:28:41.319 --> 00:28:45.559 data, trying to get video, trying to you know, we've run the 421 00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:49.839 recorders from day one basically, but you know, some one of the guys 422 00:28:49.880 --> 00:28:52.839 or some of the guys would go out in the early evening and set up 423 00:28:52.839 --> 00:28:57.519 in a tree, stand quietly and wait for things to happen. Going across 424 00:28:57.519 --> 00:29:00.640 the field where you guys are making a noise camp and sitting there by myself. 425 00:29:00.839 --> 00:29:04.759 Yeah, yeah, there's that there. What else walking during the day, 426 00:29:06.839 --> 00:29:11.000 trying to find footprints and any piece of viable soil there is. We 427 00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:17.759 found some, but it's we've had a lot touch on castable because of the 428 00:29:17.799 --> 00:29:21.359 sand and everything else, or they've been in water, or they've been in 429 00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:25.759 water. Found the one in the river bank. Tried to cast that that 430 00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:29.880 did not go well. Good God, Check for hair samples. There's a 431 00:29:29.920 --> 00:29:33.880 lot of barbed wire all over the place, so it's a constant to just 432 00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:37.559 walking down the fence line looking for where anything may have come through. I 433 00:29:37.559 --> 00:29:44.480 think we found deer, raccoons, squirrel bear, nothing that anybody thought to 434 00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:51.240 actually, you know, was worth collecting. Pet Gal who used to be 435 00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:56.079 part of our group did send one sample someplace one time and it turned out 436 00:29:56.079 --> 00:29:59.920 to be I think deer, wasn't it? Or cow? Cattle are out? 437 00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:03.440 I think it was. I think it was cow too. Yeah, 438 00:30:03.960 --> 00:30:10.359 So you didn't really have a routine necessarily at the time. Plus back then 439 00:30:10.400 --> 00:30:15.160 I was pretty much working seven days a week. I have a lot of 440 00:30:15.160 --> 00:30:19.559 it. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo. We'll 441 00:30:19.559 --> 00:30:29.839 be right back after these messages. Did either of you ever put eyes on 442 00:30:29.839 --> 00:30:34.119 one of these things while on the property? Yes? Yes, yeah, 443 00:30:34.519 --> 00:30:37.759 Jim and I had gone up. There was another another brief video that one 444 00:30:37.759 --> 00:30:45.480 of his kids had taped his bottom his rabbit hutch over but of one walking 445 00:30:45.480 --> 00:30:55.920 along the woodline east to west into the late afternoon sun. And I thought 446 00:30:55.920 --> 00:31:00.240 at first that's a mask because it looked so distorted and ridiculous and why and 447 00:31:00.279 --> 00:31:07.160 shiny and then you see a blink. But after and we figured that distorted 448 00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:11.640 look was because of the sun reflecting off at oily skin. But after that, 449 00:31:11.720 --> 00:31:15.640 we spent some time going up and just sitting there's a large oak tree 450 00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:21.039 at the top of a hill the edge of the field, and just scanning, 451 00:31:21.079 --> 00:31:23.079 scanning, that north woodline for hours, and there was one night that 452 00:31:25.519 --> 00:31:30.920 vocals from across the river and from two different locations across the river, and 453 00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:37.200 we were hearing a bunch a bunch of sounds in the river, loud splashing 454 00:31:37.400 --> 00:31:41.559 like little plunging noises. And then we got a couple of grunts and one 455 00:31:41.599 --> 00:31:45.680 came from the north, the other one came from the west, down what 456 00:31:45.720 --> 00:31:49.559 we call the slot. And as Jim is looking. By this point, 457 00:31:49.599 --> 00:31:53.039 we've moved off the hill and toward the fire, which was down to just 458 00:31:53.079 --> 00:31:57.839 embers at that point, and Jim's looking down the slot with the night vision. 459 00:31:59.440 --> 00:32:00.559 He's aid, is, take a look at this and tell me if 460 00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:06.039 you see what I see. And I didn't do it because I was freaked 461 00:32:06.039 --> 00:32:07.440 out. This was a new thing. I will do it now, and 462 00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:10.759 I kicked myself from not looking now, but at that time, this was 463 00:32:10.759 --> 00:32:15.119 a new thing and I was kind of scared. I didn't look. But 464 00:32:15.279 --> 00:32:19.799 he well, you can just write what you saw. Basically, it was, 465 00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:27.960 I guess, like a imagine Shaquille O'Neill walking down a trail towards you, 466 00:32:29.079 --> 00:32:32.799 but he's actually bigger than he actually has, with wider shoulders and then 467 00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:39.519 as you see him, he just turns and basically walks quietly down a forty 468 00:32:39.559 --> 00:32:43.960 foot embankment and you're just sitting there, going somebody else, please look at 469 00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:47.839 this and make sure I'm not crazy, very steep embankment, and at that 470 00:32:47.960 --> 00:32:52.759 point it was just like a recovered ran up to a look to see if 471 00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:58.200 I could still see it, and it was just gone. Whether there's a 472 00:32:58.240 --> 00:33:04.440 trail that runs kind of like, uh north northeast to west southwesternly right along 473 00:33:04.480 --> 00:33:07.920 the river bank, so I'm assuming it went one direction or the other along 474 00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:10.519 the trail. Do you find prints, Well, yeah, yeah, we 475 00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:15.240 found lots and lots of tracks. Trackways. Again, they're in sand. 476 00:33:15.319 --> 00:33:22.279 Basically you get a little detail here and there. The big giveaway that is 477 00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:25.960 the step length and the stridelings. You know, you're getting fifty to fifty 478 00:33:25.960 --> 00:33:31.119 two inch steps. The thing is to a lot of that, you're not 479 00:33:31.160 --> 00:33:36.160 getting tracks on at the ground so hard most of the time that even like 480 00:33:36.279 --> 00:33:39.960 a you know, four thousand pounds tractor doesn't even leave tread marks. Yeah, 481 00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:44.480 it's either it's either compacted down so hard like that or it's just sand 482 00:33:44.519 --> 00:33:47.400 and it fills back in. But uh, back to the visuals. The 483 00:33:47.920 --> 00:33:54.200 first well, my son and I had a night where we saw something at 484 00:33:54.200 --> 00:34:02.319 the edge of the field and he had said to me, walk over this 485 00:34:02.359 --> 00:34:06.000 way with me to the cars. I got a pee, so I said, 486 00:34:06.039 --> 00:34:07.679 okay, I want to walk with you. And so he's around the 487 00:34:07.679 --> 00:34:10.719 corner. We trade places. I get around the corner and he said, 488 00:34:10.760 --> 00:34:16.119 Mom, look up there, so I think it is And it looked like 489 00:34:16.360 --> 00:34:21.599 a person standing there with you sideways to us with a hoodie up. And 490 00:34:21.639 --> 00:34:22.400 we used to have to go up to the top of the hill to get 491 00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:27.079 the cell phone signal. And I said, no, that's just our landowner 492 00:34:27.079 --> 00:34:29.320 with the hoodie up. He's like, Mom, I don't think so, 493 00:34:29.800 --> 00:34:32.719 that's way too big. At this point, he's like nineteen years old, 494 00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:37.519 in the size of a sasquatch. But my you know, mama bear thing 495 00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:40.480 is kicking in and I'm like, nope, keep calm, that's just our 496 00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:46.119 landowner making a phone call. There's no light or anything. So we go 497 00:34:46.199 --> 00:34:51.679 back to the fire, grab the night vision and walk back over there and 498 00:34:51.800 --> 00:34:54.599 our landowner. Everybody's accounted for, and he comes walking from the opposite direction 499 00:34:55.239 --> 00:35:00.199 from the north Woods with Paul. Yeah. Whatever had been standing there was 500 00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:06.000 gone, but it was only silla wet that we saw. There was no 501 00:35:06.079 --> 00:35:10.480 detail whatsoever. The following year though, Fourth of July, that's one of 502 00:35:10.480 --> 00:35:19.199 our guys had literally in the headlights full on, no question about it, 503 00:35:19.360 --> 00:35:23.159 sighting. And it was fourth of July weekend, which is historically been a 504 00:35:23.239 --> 00:35:30.000 very very active weekend for us, and there were just vocal after vocal after 505 00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:35.800 vocal after vocal, and we could hear the sound travels so well out there, 506 00:35:35.840 --> 00:35:38.119 we could hear a mile away in one of the cabins, somebody was 507 00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:43.360 having a party, and so Mike took his car out just to see like 508 00:35:43.400 --> 00:35:46.639 where the party was so we would know. And on the way back in 509 00:35:47.800 --> 00:35:53.880 he turned a corner, came up over this little rise and crossing the east 510 00:35:53.920 --> 00:35:59.039 west road there, going from north to south, there was one right in 511 00:35:59.079 --> 00:36:02.199 the road and when his headlights hit it, he had just enough time to 512 00:36:02.239 --> 00:36:07.840 register what it was and watch it finish crossing the road. And that was 513 00:36:07.880 --> 00:36:14.400 our first no question about it. Citing now you mentioned the sound quality of 514 00:36:14.440 --> 00:36:16.639 the area, like the I'm not even sure what they call it, but 515 00:36:17.000 --> 00:36:22.159 how how well sound travels in this particular area. But the vocalizations i've heard 516 00:36:22.199 --> 00:36:24.559 from you seem to be very very close, and not all of them, 517 00:36:24.559 --> 00:36:28.960 of course, not all of them, but some of them seem to be 518 00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:32.320 fairly close. Would you say the vast majority of vocalizations before we start listening 519 00:36:32.320 --> 00:36:36.599 to these are from a good distance or where you focus on the really close 520 00:36:36.599 --> 00:36:39.360 stuff, because you had a strategy that managed to make it work out. 521 00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:46.320 They most of the vocalizations come from right across the river. We're the campus 522 00:36:46.320 --> 00:36:51.480 at the top of a high river bank, and then most of the vocalizations 523 00:36:51.519 --> 00:36:53.360 come from across the river. We've gotten them from the north Woods and a 524 00:36:53.400 --> 00:36:58.440 lot of them from the south Woods too, but most of what we record 525 00:36:58.920 --> 00:37:05.400 is within I don't know quarter of my own about that sounds where Yeah, 526 00:37:05.840 --> 00:37:08.719 I mean, I mean they come in close. Do you think they're they're 527 00:37:08.760 --> 00:37:13.880 reacting to your presence, which is why they're vocalizing, or like, do 528 00:37:13.920 --> 00:37:16.039 they see you? You think across the river hear you perhaps, or do 529 00:37:16.039 --> 00:37:21.119 you think they're doing this activity anyway? I think we're in the way from 530 00:37:21.159 --> 00:37:23.440 where they want to go. It's a little perturbed with you guys. And 531 00:37:23.519 --> 00:37:30.400 that's always been my impression, at least because that trail there was before we 532 00:37:30.440 --> 00:37:32.159 started camping there. Basically that would be a trail, the easy, you 533 00:37:32.199 --> 00:37:37.639 know, most direct route from coming across the river at Wanda shallows points to 534 00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:45.000 get to the north Woods. And now we're there on occasion, so we're 535 00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:47.519 in the way. Yeah, I see, that's interesting. That's very interesting. 536 00:37:47.599 --> 00:37:50.800 Of course it's a it's an assumption, and I realized that. But 537 00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:52.480 I mean, what else do we have at this point. Yeah, the 538 00:37:52.599 --> 00:37:54.559 more you know, the more you don't. Yeah, I said, though, 539 00:37:54.920 --> 00:37:58.599 we haven't gotten really distant vocals in a long time, but we used 540 00:37:58.599 --> 00:38:00.199 to those early years, you know, well, we would hear them for 541 00:38:00.440 --> 00:38:05.039 what sounded like a mile away, you know, here and there, so 542 00:38:05.320 --> 00:38:08.280 and in that case it wasn't because of us. No, I don't know 543 00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:13.119 if they're locator calls or what they are, but I saw them. Figured 544 00:38:13.159 --> 00:38:15.639 it out. It's been twenty years almost at the same location. I'm still 545 00:38:15.639 --> 00:38:20.400 trying to figure it out. So, well, let's take a listen to 546 00:38:20.760 --> 00:38:24.000 a couple of these things I'm looking at. We have kind of limited time, 547 00:38:24.039 --> 00:38:29.039 and do you have so many recordings? Our producer Matt Prutt, who's 548 00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:31.119 of course on the line with us, he's taken the opportunity to go and 549 00:38:31.280 --> 00:38:37.159 kind of weed them down to four four representative clips. That great to share, 550 00:38:37.199 --> 00:38:38.159 And of course we're even running out of time here, so whatever we 551 00:38:38.199 --> 00:38:42.519 don't get to now, we'll bump that over to our members section and our 552 00:38:42.519 --> 00:38:45.400 members can hear the rest of the vocalizations. Okay, So why don't we 553 00:38:45.440 --> 00:38:50.039 start out with this July two thousand and seven, Combo vocals. What you 554 00:38:50.079 --> 00:38:52.760 want to tell us what was going on when this happened here before we listen 555 00:38:52.800 --> 00:38:54.239 to it? Or should we just jump right into it? Go ahead and 556 00:38:54.280 --> 00:39:22.679 jump right into it. Okay, So we have a two different vocalizers. 557 00:39:22.719 --> 00:39:24.960 Do you think it's the same vocalizer? There? Two different, two different 558 00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:29.000 And when I labeled at combo vocals, it was because that was the first 559 00:39:29.000 --> 00:39:32.480 time that we'd heard two different types at the same time. Yeah, I 560 00:39:32.480 --> 00:39:36.280 would say that the first one might be described as a whoop of some sort 561 00:39:37.320 --> 00:39:39.400 and the second one, what would you describe that as almost like a crow 562 00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:43.440 call or something. I'm not sure. We've always called that the ae scream 563 00:39:43.840 --> 00:39:45.320 the awe scream. I gain, that makes sense, That totally makes sense. 564 00:39:45.519 --> 00:39:51.079 And were there knocks in there as well? I couldn't is that everybody's 565 00:39:51.079 --> 00:39:52.760 hearing something else. I don't remember. I think there may have been, 566 00:39:53.440 --> 00:39:57.320 but yeah, we'd put up a tree stand, put probably twenty five feet 567 00:39:57.360 --> 00:39:59.880 in a tree on our side of the river early in the year, like 568 00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:04.079 in April, to let it just kind of become part of the landscape there. 569 00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:08.880 And earlier in the year, Paul, who was in the tree stand 570 00:40:08.920 --> 00:40:13.679 that night, watched as Jim and I came back from the other side of 571 00:40:13.719 --> 00:40:15.920 the river. We'd gone over to sit in a ground blind and just see 572 00:40:15.960 --> 00:40:21.519 if anything happened by Nothing did, but Paul watched us through night vision come 573 00:40:21.559 --> 00:40:27.119 back through that section across the river. The night before this, Jim had 574 00:40:27.159 --> 00:40:29.960 been up there and five minutes after he got back down, we got a 575 00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:34.519 whooper turf from across the river. So this night this happened with that whoop 576 00:40:35.440 --> 00:40:39.199 the o scream, that's all we heard from camp. Paul came back and 577 00:40:39.280 --> 00:40:43.400 let us know that from where he was sitting right there, he could hear 578 00:40:43.480 --> 00:40:46.719 these kind of brunts and huffs and low, low sounds, and he could 579 00:40:46.719 --> 00:40:50.440 also hear something else doing it a little bit further north on the river. 580 00:40:51.280 --> 00:40:57.360 But he also watched something and he just described as dark and massive, just 581 00:40:57.440 --> 00:41:01.320 kind of rise up and move off behind the trees right there. And it 582 00:41:01.360 --> 00:41:05.599 was right where Jim and I had walked. He had walked, watched us 583 00:41:05.639 --> 00:41:08.320 walk from that area and across the river. He said, it was just 584 00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:15.199 compared to us, just massive. Those are some cool vocalizations. And you 585 00:41:15.199 --> 00:41:19.840 think these are just a few hundred yards away or something. Yeah, yeah, 586 00:41:20.360 --> 00:41:28.599 just just across the river. The woops cameifty yards. Yeah, probably 587 00:41:28.599 --> 00:41:34.280 the oscreen. The roops were down closer to the river, so a little 588 00:41:34.280 --> 00:41:37.800 closer. I'm uh. There was such a high quality recording. First of 589 00:41:37.800 --> 00:41:43.719 all, congratulations on that great job. But having done my fair share of 590 00:41:43.840 --> 00:41:46.840 Sasquatch recordings over the years, I think Bobo would attest to this with how 591 00:41:46.920 --> 00:41:52.400 good a quality recording you just played for us? It must have been phenomenal 592 00:41:52.760 --> 00:41:57.280 in person, because recordings pale in comparison to what you actually hear with your 593 00:41:57.320 --> 00:42:00.719 own ears. They do volume wise, Yeah, I also pick up a 594 00:42:00.760 --> 00:42:02.400 lot of stuff that we don't hear with our own years too. Oh a 595 00:42:02.400 --> 00:42:06.679 good point. So how did that, like, did he any did this 596 00:42:06.800 --> 00:42:12.119 can activity that particular night in the two thousand and seven did it continue all 597 00:42:12.159 --> 00:42:15.159 night? Long, and because I know this is a small snippet of what 598 00:42:15.199 --> 00:42:19.440 you actually recorded, it was extraordinarily active night all night long? Or do 599 00:42:19.519 --> 00:42:22.440 they come and go and like it went dead after a while, it went 600 00:42:22.480 --> 00:42:25.400 dead after and typically most of the time that's what happens. It's kind of 601 00:42:25.400 --> 00:42:30.239 like, you know, they show their beds and then they take off and 602 00:42:30.280 --> 00:42:34.440 that's it. Yeah, four hours work for fifteen minutes of fun, right, 603 00:42:35.719 --> 00:42:40.519 say twenty years of work for like three hours and a couple of sidings, 604 00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:45.480 right, time well spent well For me. The broadside is a kind 605 00:42:45.480 --> 00:42:50.039 of made me think that maybe they are real, because I'd always wondered when 606 00:42:50.039 --> 00:42:52.280 I was a kid, I did I really see what I saw? It's 607 00:42:52.320 --> 00:42:57.440 like doing really existed. I've been wasting a lot of time. But when 608 00:42:57.480 --> 00:43:00.280 I saw the one now it's like, oh, hey, okay, don't 609 00:43:00.320 --> 00:43:04.719 waste of time. Just thirty years for that to happen. But okay, 610 00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:07.800 yeah, thirty years. You have a few more thirty years left, and 611 00:43:07.880 --> 00:43:14.079 you good stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo. We'll 612 00:43:14.119 --> 00:43:23.039 be right back after these messages. Well, why don't we go chronologically? 613 00:43:23.280 --> 00:43:27.239 Okay, and we can jump over to the next recording, which is labeled 614 00:43:27.320 --> 00:43:31.000 July two thousand and eight. Display mister Matt Prue, why don't you que 615 00:43:31.079 --> 00:44:32.079 that up for us? Oh? That was interesting. I clearly started out 616 00:44:32.119 --> 00:44:36.599 with a human like sound, but you know what, sasquatches sound like big 617 00:44:36.679 --> 00:44:38.199 dudes in the woods, So I mean, that's not a concern for me 618 00:44:38.360 --> 00:44:43.320 necessarily. And then of course the coyotes jumped in, so our listeners, 619 00:44:43.320 --> 00:44:45.599 you know, clearly coyotes were present. And then at the end I caught 620 00:44:45.599 --> 00:44:50.800 some sort of like like that kind of thing. Was that dud? Do 621 00:44:50.800 --> 00:44:52.920 you feel that that was in response to the coyotes or was it a separate 622 00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:55.760 individual or what did you hear with your own ears there? I know, 623 00:44:55.920 --> 00:45:00.039 Clue, I don't know what it was. Sponsor that was the first time 624 00:45:00.039 --> 00:45:05.559 we ever heard that kind of sam what they kind of call now samurai chatter. 625 00:45:07.039 --> 00:45:08.920 That was the first time you ever heard any of that. So what 626 00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:13.440 was the prequel, like, what was the set up the context of this 627 00:45:13.480 --> 00:45:17.079 particular vocalization, what led to that? Let me see, I've gotten my 628 00:45:17.119 --> 00:45:20.519 notes. I've gotten my notes right here. You know what, By the 629 00:45:20.519 --> 00:45:22.400 way, there's nothing to be embarrassed about with that you sound like I think 630 00:45:22.400 --> 00:45:28.280 that was a nervous laugh. But the best investigators take notes. In fact, 631 00:45:28.320 --> 00:45:30.920 everybody on the audience please take note of this. They are consulting their 632 00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:34.320 notes, which is the power of notes. You think you're never going to 633 00:45:34.400 --> 00:45:37.119 forget such a thing because of such an earth moving sort of situation, when 634 00:45:37.119 --> 00:45:42.679 you encounter a sasquatch nonsense, you will forget. Everyone should take notes. 635 00:45:42.719 --> 00:45:45.920 So thank you very much for demonstrating that, even though it sound like you're 636 00:45:45.920 --> 00:45:51.639 a little nervous about it. So I'm just alarmed for the ride. That's 637 00:45:51.679 --> 00:45:54.320 cool, nothing wrong with that. I keep up camp basically these days. 638 00:45:54.639 --> 00:45:59.920 Oh nice, excellent nerd. So it was Fast of July weekend. Typically 639 00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:05.239 that's our biggest has been our biggest attendance weekend. Our two smaller kids we 640 00:46:05.679 --> 00:46:07.480 were always with us for the summer, so they were there every year. 641 00:46:08.199 --> 00:46:12.920 It's a holiday weekend. So our people who come from we had Pat and 642 00:46:13.000 --> 00:46:17.039 Joe who came from the Toronto area. We had Jeff and Diane Simon who 643 00:46:17.119 --> 00:46:21.360 drove up all the way from Indianapolis and for them it's like a seven hour 644 00:46:21.440 --> 00:46:24.079 drive and they were bringing their kids or kid at the time, so it 645 00:46:23.960 --> 00:46:28.280 was. It was a it was a big group in camp. And earlier 646 00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:31.880 that night we had at twelve ten, we had had like some of those 647 00:46:31.920 --> 00:46:36.679 O screams across the river. I thought it was done and over with. 648 00:46:36.760 --> 00:46:40.599 Everybody went to bed about twelve forty five, But everybody was still awake when 649 00:46:40.639 --> 00:46:46.280 this started happening. And that's about Yeah, that's about the context of the 650 00:46:46.320 --> 00:46:51.559 whole thing. You know, did you, guys ever do calls yourselves like 651 00:46:51.639 --> 00:46:54.760 to elicit or do you just record? We just we've tried a couple of 652 00:46:54.800 --> 00:47:00.280 times. It's been it's been several years since we've even tried that. I 653 00:47:00.400 --> 00:47:06.079 never really got a response to it. We found that every time we have 654 00:47:06.239 --> 00:47:10.559 responded ourselves, it cuts everything off short. We've tried a couple of times 655 00:47:10.599 --> 00:47:15.320 to have like me having the female voice answer, to see if we could 656 00:47:15.360 --> 00:47:20.119 start kind of training them to okay, to think, if I yell, 657 00:47:20.239 --> 00:47:23.519 somebody's going to talk back, so maybe they'll, you know, if we 658 00:47:23.559 --> 00:47:27.599 talk first, maybe we can get them to yell back at us. But 659 00:47:28.440 --> 00:47:30.239 you know, a couple of times we've done that and say, hey, 660 00:47:30.519 --> 00:47:35.800 you know, talking softly soft female voice, hello, you know we hear 661 00:47:35.920 --> 00:47:38.519 you that it just stops it dead as tracks, So you don't in general, 662 00:47:38.519 --> 00:47:42.360 if they're going off, you just stay quiet and enjoy it. There's 663 00:47:42.400 --> 00:47:45.480 no response on your part that does anything except for drives them away. Right. 664 00:47:45.800 --> 00:47:49.679 Yep, you said this was on July fourth. It wouldn't happen to 665 00:47:49.719 --> 00:47:52.599 be the same July fourth. That sighting that you mentioned occurred on what it 666 00:47:52.440 --> 00:48:00.119 let me see the citing Mike's from the car. Yes, yeah, two 667 00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:02.119 thousand and nine, so it was the following year, following year. Okay, 668 00:48:02.679 --> 00:48:06.519 And do you you said that July fourth is a really good day, 669 00:48:06.559 --> 00:48:08.800 like that's the best time? Like does it peak at that time of year? 670 00:48:09.079 --> 00:48:12.960 And if so, is it? Are they do? They seem to 671 00:48:12.960 --> 00:48:15.960 be present at all times a year. We're all that we don't know. 672 00:48:15.119 --> 00:48:21.480 Our activity has always followed like a bell curve. It starts in the spring, 673 00:48:21.559 --> 00:48:24.119 sometimes early spring, It ramps up in the middle of the summer, 674 00:48:24.159 --> 00:48:30.079 and then it starts dying back down again. We have heard them into November, 675 00:48:30.119 --> 00:48:34.119 I believe, yeah, right about the start of hunting season, because 676 00:48:34.119 --> 00:48:37.079 we don't really go up there during hunting season. No, there's too many 677 00:48:37.079 --> 00:48:44.400 rednecks, too many gone right soon as soon as especially like gun season starts. 678 00:48:45.239 --> 00:48:49.800 Uh, it just it just stops. It just stops. There was 679 00:48:49.840 --> 00:48:54.159 one person who lived across there's a road, that Northwest road or that north 680 00:48:54.199 --> 00:48:59.960 South road. One person who lived across the road claims to have watched one 681 00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:02.320 and I don't know what time of the year it was, but it was 682 00:49:02.360 --> 00:49:07.000 snowy walk up his sideyard and cross the road going like towards the river. 683 00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:13.039 But we've never seen or heard anything. We're not up there as much either, 684 00:49:13.079 --> 00:49:16.119 But even the landowner doesn't really see or hear much of anything. Is 685 00:49:16.159 --> 00:49:20.760 it a topic of conversation amongst the residents that area, Like did they see 686 00:49:20.760 --> 00:49:22.719 each other at the market? Goes? You hear that last night? You 687 00:49:22.719 --> 00:49:25.559 know that kind of stuff that I don't know that. There's a couple of 688 00:49:25.599 --> 00:49:30.960 people, the residents are aware. Some of them will talk about it. 689 00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:35.440 Some of them, you know, we've never talked to. So there's the 690 00:49:35.559 --> 00:49:39.760 one kid that actually lives across said he saw the wine because he found the 691 00:49:39.960 --> 00:49:43.239 crinch in the snow. That's all I was just talking about. Oh that's 692 00:49:43.239 --> 00:49:45.360 the same person. Okay, Well, you know I wanted to know about 693 00:49:45.360 --> 00:49:50.320 the year round activity because you've been working this spot with twenty years or more 694 00:49:50.320 --> 00:49:55.239 and more or right around twenty years, and that quantity of data is of 695 00:49:55.360 --> 00:49:59.760 value. I know that out where I am, and it also it seems 696 00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:02.559 and can Tucky and in Washington at a location, and even in California at 697 00:50:02.480 --> 00:50:07.679 another location. The data that's coming in strongly indicates that they don't move very 698 00:50:07.719 --> 00:50:12.679 far. And I'm curious if that's in all areas of the country or if 699 00:50:12.719 --> 00:50:15.760 it's just the areas that I happen to be involved with slightly, because the 700 00:50:15.840 --> 00:50:21.440 data seems squarely in the corner of these things. More or less they put 701 00:50:22.480 --> 00:50:24.199 in a particular area. Now people say, oh, well, then you 702 00:50:24.239 --> 00:50:28.480 post cameras up in that area. The area's like ten miles by ten miles 703 00:50:28.559 --> 00:50:30.320 or more, you know. I mean, it's huge at the end of 704 00:50:30.360 --> 00:50:35.960 the day, but not really that big for a large terrestrial animal to be 705 00:50:36.000 --> 00:50:39.400 moving around in a fairly localized sort of place. And of course, this 706 00:50:39.480 --> 00:50:45.239 is based on very little data because of all the quote unquote researchers out there, 707 00:50:45.280 --> 00:50:47.480 there's not a lot of data coming in. Honestly, there's a lot 708 00:50:47.519 --> 00:50:52.800 of stories and I heard knocks and Grandma's holler that kind of stuff, But 709 00:50:52.840 --> 00:50:55.800 there's not a lot of actual data and information and documentation coming in, so 710 00:50:55.840 --> 00:51:00.360 we don't really know yet, but it sounds like you've been collecting good notes 711 00:51:00.400 --> 00:51:02.559 for quite a long time. It might be really interesting to check into that. 712 00:51:02.800 --> 00:51:08.519 I mean, obviously, sightings and activity in general will peak at certain 713 00:51:08.559 --> 00:51:12.760 times a year, but you also have to include the human factor. You 714 00:51:12.760 --> 00:51:15.280 said so yourself, we don't really go out there that time here there is 715 00:51:15.360 --> 00:51:19.199 a big human factor involved. But I'd be very interesting. I would be 716 00:51:19.280 --> 00:51:24.920 very interested to learn about some of the seasonal behavior in that sort of way, 717 00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:29.480 or if there's any evidence like footprints that might be attributable to a certain 718 00:51:29.519 --> 00:51:32.400 individual in the area in the snow or something like that. What's your gut 719 00:51:32.440 --> 00:51:36.679 feeling or what is the data in your area point to do these things move 720 00:51:36.800 --> 00:51:39.159 very far? I don't think so. I don't think so, And we 721 00:51:39.559 --> 00:51:44.079 theorize. Of course, we don't know for sure, but our best guess 722 00:51:44.760 --> 00:51:46.320 is that there are a lot of cedar swamps in the area, and we 723 00:51:46.400 --> 00:51:50.960 think they've probably moved deep into those cedar swamps. Literally, that was my 724 00:51:51.000 --> 00:51:53.679 next question is like wintertime, how many cedar swamps are in the vicinity? 725 00:51:54.159 --> 00:51:58.400 Literally? Yeah, because Cedar swamps I think are the key to this thing. 726 00:51:59.239 --> 00:52:02.519 There's also the uh what the heck's name of it by Houton Lake, 727 00:52:02.920 --> 00:52:07.280 oh dead Stream Stream slump there that's basically right in the middle of the state 728 00:52:07.360 --> 00:52:12.519 over there as you head towards like gray Lean Air Base and stuff, and 729 00:52:12.599 --> 00:52:15.480 except for an occasional military patrol, there's really not much it goes on out 730 00:52:15.519 --> 00:52:21.480 there, especially in the winter. It's I mean, I figured for a 731 00:52:21.519 --> 00:52:23.800 Sasquatch, it's only like less than fifty miles away, so they could probably 732 00:52:23.880 --> 00:52:27.760 make that in a day. But if there's some in your neck of the 733 00:52:27.760 --> 00:52:31.239 wood, they wouldn't have to go anywhere. Yeah, they wouldn't. I 734 00:52:31.239 --> 00:52:35.519 don't just some of the walks I've taken around the area, and there's there's 735 00:52:35.559 --> 00:52:38.760 a great area of the south of us that's I mean, there aren't any 736 00:52:38.800 --> 00:52:45.199 even really any houses there. They could hide there easily. But even getting 737 00:52:45.280 --> 00:52:49.679 back there, we went for a walk, me and another friend of ours 738 00:52:49.719 --> 00:52:53.400 went for a walk. Was it last yeah, last year or maybe even 739 00:52:53.440 --> 00:52:57.519 earlier this year. My memory is so bad. If I didn't remember things, 740 00:52:57.519 --> 00:53:01.880 i'd forget things. Which waves here there for probably about three miles, 741 00:53:01.880 --> 00:53:06.719 but it took us like six hours to do it. So anything that got 742 00:53:06.760 --> 00:53:08.639 back in there, you're not going to find it if it doesn't want to 743 00:53:08.679 --> 00:53:14.480 be found. And of course, the winners of Michigan or legendary, you 744 00:53:14.519 --> 00:53:17.760 know, I mean there's they're ridiculous. I can't imagine why anyone lives there. 745 00:53:19.679 --> 00:53:22.480 Nothing personal, of course, I mean you're much hardier folk than me. 746 00:53:23.760 --> 00:53:27.800 It's a stablishing. I mean, five ten feet of snow, imagine 747 00:53:27.920 --> 00:53:31.840 on occasions. You know, Moneymaker once told me that he found the spot 748 00:53:32.760 --> 00:53:38.360 that he felt that the sasquatch had dug through the snow down to the ground 749 00:53:38.480 --> 00:53:43.119 level and was using that to dis increase the temperature a few degrees for its 750 00:53:43.119 --> 00:53:45.800 own use. Of course, I think I might have mentioned to you maybe 751 00:53:45.800 --> 00:53:49.360 in the museum or maybe blabbing about it on the podcast. I think Cedar 752 00:53:49.480 --> 00:53:52.320 swamps for a big key to their survival during the winter time. Do you 753 00:53:52.440 --> 00:53:58.719 have any idea what these local Sasquatches in your area are doing to accommodate themselves 754 00:53:58.800 --> 00:54:04.440 during the winter. I think they're using vacated bear dams or sometimes even maybe 755 00:54:04.480 --> 00:54:07.880 coyote dems if they want to dig down a little bit farther, because I've 756 00:54:07.880 --> 00:54:12.280 actually stuck my head into a couple of bear dems and some of them are 757 00:54:12.800 --> 00:54:16.880 have maybe ten feet back and eight feet high. Wow, that one that's 758 00:54:16.920 --> 00:54:21.800 on the river bank that you're not supposed to know that we stuck our heads 759 00:54:21.800 --> 00:54:29.960 in. Yeah, I mean you could easily stand up in there, if 760 00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:34.320 you squat down. I mean you could actually sleep in there. I mean 761 00:54:34.480 --> 00:54:37.320 there's nothing in there, not even the bear, which is probably a good 762 00:54:37.320 --> 00:54:39.880 thing. But that's really interesting because everybody's heard, of course, about the 763 00:54:39.880 --> 00:54:44.320 Olympic Project nest site, and most people are aware that there was a second 764 00:54:44.400 --> 00:54:47.320 nest site found just a ridge or so over from the initial nest site. 765 00:54:47.480 --> 00:54:52.000 And I was privy to that location just probably a week or two after it 766 00:54:52.079 --> 00:54:55.559 was found. And what we determined by our on site investigation is that that 767 00:54:55.599 --> 00:55:00.000 particular sasquatch, and we're confident it was the sasquatch, by the way, 768 00:55:00.599 --> 00:55:06.360 was repurposing a bear den that was underneath the log. All the all the 769 00:55:06.400 --> 00:55:09.280 nesting material was piled out in front of this little hole and I say little, 770 00:55:09.280 --> 00:55:13.280 It was probably about two and a half maybe three feet wide or something 771 00:55:13.320 --> 00:55:16.920 like that, and inside whatever it was brought the nesting material inside there as 772 00:55:16.960 --> 00:55:22.719 well, and was digging out the hole to make it larger. We retrieved 773 00:55:22.719 --> 00:55:28.519 a couple bare hair, I believe from from the nesting material. Well inside 774 00:55:28.559 --> 00:55:31.559 the inside the den area, there were scrapes on the wall. Inside this 775 00:55:31.719 --> 00:55:37.360 little den was underneath a log, a fairly large log, so it kind 776 00:55:37.360 --> 00:55:38.920 of dug it. A bear apparently had dug out this small den, but 777 00:55:38.960 --> 00:55:43.239 a sasquatch came along later and was repurposing it. And of course some people 778 00:55:43.239 --> 00:55:45.639 out there, if we have I hope we have skeptical listeners. I always 779 00:55:45.679 --> 00:55:50.239 welcome skeptics as long as they're they're polite and kind and ask good questions. 780 00:55:50.400 --> 00:55:53.000 And not just jerks, but our skeptics out there might be saying, well, 781 00:55:53.039 --> 00:55:55.639 how do you know this this wasn't a bear thing like bears brought in 782 00:55:55.679 --> 00:55:59.760 all this nesting material. Well, there's a couple of reasons. Number one 783 00:55:59.840 --> 00:56:06.280 is outside the hole that was the initial bear den. I interpreted the area 784 00:56:06.320 --> 00:56:10.440 as having been dug out because there was a pile of dirt outside. It's 785 00:56:10.480 --> 00:56:15.920 a few feet outside like tailings basically, so something was going scooping up dirt 786 00:56:15.960 --> 00:56:20.719 and piling it out in front of the hole to make it larger, and 787 00:56:20.920 --> 00:56:24.360 in that pile of dirt and the tailings or whatever you want to call it 788 00:56:24.480 --> 00:56:30.519 was a handprint, not a paw print, but a hand print. And 789 00:56:30.679 --> 00:56:36.039 then we've also in the area. Todd Hale was there, Shane Corson was 790 00:56:36.079 --> 00:56:40.079 there. After a period of time had gone by and we were confident that 791 00:56:40.119 --> 00:56:44.480 the sasquatch was not going to be returning to the location. We didn't want 792 00:56:44.519 --> 00:56:46.920 to disturb any behaviors or you know, for it and whils. We didn't 793 00:56:46.920 --> 00:56:50.480 want to lose any opportunities of knowing where one was going, of course, 794 00:56:50.760 --> 00:56:52.760 But after we were confident that the thing wasn't going to come back anymore, 795 00:56:53.039 --> 00:57:00.000 we started collecting some of the nesting material and that trip yielded three foot print 796 00:57:00.320 --> 00:57:06.119 casts that I personally took, and I think two actually two of those casts. 797 00:57:07.320 --> 00:57:12.360 The footprints were underneath the nesting material, which of course gives us a 798 00:57:12.400 --> 00:57:15.199 time period, a timeline here. Those footprints were laid down before the nesting 799 00:57:15.239 --> 00:57:21.800 material was put down there. So with those clues, I'm confident enough to 800 00:57:21.800 --> 00:57:25.360 say that that was a sasquatch situation, and it seems to me it was 801 00:57:25.400 --> 00:57:30.440 actually repurposing a bare den. So you bringing that up is really really interesting 802 00:57:30.480 --> 00:57:34.480 to me. So much has been going on, and apparently it's going on 803 00:57:34.559 --> 00:57:37.880 to this present day as well, or pretty close to this present day, 804 00:57:37.880 --> 00:57:38.800 I guess, I mean here with us now, you don't know what's going 805 00:57:38.840 --> 00:57:44.079 on there. But having said that, we're kind of running out of time. 806 00:57:44.159 --> 00:57:45.920 On the initial podcast, I thought we're going to jump into vocalizations and 807 00:57:45.920 --> 00:57:51.000 mostly talk about that, but there was so much more information to share. 808 00:57:51.119 --> 00:57:53.360 So would you mind sticking around for our member section and we can listen to 809 00:57:53.440 --> 00:57:59.000 the last few vocalization recordings that we can and learn a little bit more about 810 00:57:59.000 --> 00:58:00.880 the situation and bring it up to the present day. Yees, sure, 811 00:58:01.480 --> 00:58:06.320 that would be fantastic. I would really really appreciate that. So yeah, 812 00:58:06.360 --> 00:58:08.239 people listening out there, there's gonna be more over our member section. I 813 00:58:08.239 --> 00:58:12.039 think it's released every Thursday, if remember right, five bucks a month. 814 00:58:12.039 --> 00:58:14.559 If you want to join us, it's great, I mean that's what I 815 00:58:14.599 --> 00:58:16.079 hear at least. So, Bob, do you have anything else to add 816 00:58:16.079 --> 00:58:20.639 before we split and do the member stuff? No? All right, very 817 00:58:20.639 --> 00:58:22.760 good? Then why don't you dig us out of here? Then? Jim 818 00:58:22.880 --> 00:58:24.800 and Stacy, thanks a lot for coming on the show with us today and 819 00:58:25.480 --> 00:58:30.880 I appreciate you're going to stick around for the members section and tell you out 820 00:58:30.880 --> 00:58:34.800 there listening. Thank you for joining us, and until next time, y'all, 821 00:58:34.880 --> 00:58:43.559 keep it Squatchy. Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and 822 00:58:43.719 --> 00:58:46.119 Beyond. If you liked what you heard, please rate and review us on 823 00:58:46.159 --> 00:58:51.960 iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you get your podcasts, and follow 824 00:58:52.039 --> 00:58:55.880 us on Facebook and Instagram at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast. You can find us 825 00:58:55.920 --> 00:59:01.000 on Twitter at Bigfoot and Beyond that's an in the middle, and tweet us 826 00:59:01.039 --> 00:59:06.119 your thoughts and questions with the hashtag Bigfoot and Beyond