Welcome to Sword and Scale Rewind with your hosts Matt Fondelier and Ian Bag.
Hey, what's up, everybody, We're back with another episode of Sword in
Scale Rewind. Just mixing up these intros every time. I don't even know
what I'm gonna say. My name is Matt Fondelier. I'm one of the
hosts of the show, joined once again by the co host of Enjoying Orange
Slices with Jeff and Ian You know, if he likes orange slices, he's
gonna be ready to talk about murder. Those things just go hand in hand.
Iatan Bag, welcome back. Hey, yeah, that's the Italian show.
Hey yeah, yeah, it's an Italian family that gets involved in this
one. That's maybe that's why I was possessed by the spirits of the Cypriani
family. That is Italian, right, I'm guessing that's hope, So maybe
check they might be check. No, I think it's Italian. D What
do you do do the murder? Well, they're not Canadian, so you're
off the hook for this. I know. My god. Last last week
was very My family called me up. They're like, yeah, can you
tell them not to do any more? Canadian murders. People starting to write
us letters. I'm like, sorry, mom, I can't. We have
to talk about the murder. We have to talk about the murder. YEP,
that's what we do on the show. By the way, we talk
about the murder that was told to you in great detail on an episode of
Sword and Scale, in this case episode one sixty three. That's what we're
going to be focusing on. Sixty three episodes. That's pretty crazy. Yeah,
episodes and still going strong. I think on the main feed as you're
listening to this, they're well passed two hundred. Yeah. I can't even
say how many there are. That's how many. And that's just on the
main feed. There's over a hundred on the Plus feed. Now I know
what's the Plus above. I was gonna say, a couple weeks ago,
I told you guys about the Della Millard two parter and that you had to
subscribe to Plus if you want to hear a part two. So obviously you've
all already done that. Sell involved ask as or grass people, nobody were
ads are free. That's right. There are over one hundred more episodes on
Sword and Scale Plus that are all they're the same quality of shows. There's
nothing different about them. They're all written with the same care and attention to
detail as the ones that you get to hear for free. So if you've
caught up on the show and you want to hear one hundred, literally one
hundred more stories that you've never heard before, one hundred more people were murdered
that you didn't even know about it. And if people are like, if
you're thinking, where's where's Michael Boudet today? Why isn't he on the show?
It's because he's got that many episodes to put out. He just can't
join us every time. Yeah, it's a treat when he drops by to
do the show. It's going to hero again, but it's a treat.
It's a treat when he drops by. And when I say, it's fun
when he doesn't because we get to be more relaxed because he could fire us
at any time. But you're assuming he doesn't listen to this and he's hearing
the ones that were that he's not on. Mike, I will not bring
up the fact you only have one testicle again. We'll hopefully have Mike be
day on soon, but in the meantime, we mess him we shall,
Mike, we shall continue keep working hard. Mike, You and the cats.
Let's talk about the cats and the ducks. Don't forget the ducks.
Support cats and the ducks and the sill of the moon. Let's go.
We're already off the rails. We've barely even started yet even mentioned. If
this is your first time listening to the show, you might know that.
Yeah, first of all, we apologize, and second of all, this
is the after show. We're just talking about our reactions. If you really
want to hear the facts of the case, just re listen to the original
sword in scale. And if you want to hear our take on all these
crazy people, well that's what this show. We try to work some things
out that we did did not understand on the show. We we we judge
the people that were involved. Ye, we don't judge the victim unless you're
I try not to, but we just we just have a nice conversation,
a nice conversation about murder. Well it's funny that you say that, because
the top of this episode, in Mike's opening narration, he talks about how
this story is like it's beautiful, it's a beautiful ending, And I just
thought there's no beautiful episode. Not beautiful. He's terrible. He's painting a
weird picture. Um, you know what's weird about this is my wife and
I have actually talked recently about adopting a child. Oh really yes, so
yeah, so you got book. Let's hear about it. It's not happening
now after hearing this one, I'll tell you that much. You're yeah,
she was really pushing for it, and you were like, let me just
show you that this is one sixty three here. May not want to do
that. We can't afford it. We can't afford to be murdered. This
really is the like nightmare horror movie adoption story. Like this is the reason
that you don't do it, like it's so bizarre. I mean, I
know I watch a lot more horror movies than you do, because you don't
like watching horror movies. But there's a movie called Orphin. Hear her to
Orphan. I know I haven't want said about that. They adopt this little
girl and then people start getting murdered and then spoiler, big spoiler. If
you've never seen Orphan, stop listening right now. But if you don't care,
the little girl turns out she's actually an older woman who has no weird
physical thing that makes her look like a little girl, but she's in fact
like an assassin. There's been a couple of those happened recently. Not murder,
but there was a lady that was going to school. She had that
disease where she looked younger. She's thirty six or something. She was going
to a like grade nine or something like that. Yeah. Well, they
try to make a movie with Robin Williams many years ago called Jack, which
was about that same thing. He's like a or maybe that was the reverse
one. He's a little boy who looked like an old man. Remember that
one? Remember that it was really bad? I want to know that.
Apparently there's there's a movie and I can't remember who it is, but he
plays a midget. Do you know who I'm talking about? You're talking about
Gary Oldman. Yes, a movie called Tiptoes. The trailer is a hilarious
viral video. Really yeah, Oh yeah it's Did the movie come out?
Oh yeah, it's a real movie. Is it? Is it like a
cult hit like that? I've just never heard of. I gotta find it.
Yeah, I wonder if Netflix has it. I'm not on Netflix,
but you could find it if you if you look hard enough. They protest
a lot of things to Netflix. All their little employees would be walking out.
But let's let's talk about let's move on's quickly quickly moved from that.
I want to hear more about this adoption thing though. So you guys were
just interested in adopting a child, just like No, we just talked about
No, we just talked about a little bit because you know, oh,
I, we're at a certain age where you go, you make a decision
where we're going to have children? Do we do? We do we adopt
a child that needs to be adopted? U My word. My wife is
an occupational in occupational therapy, so she deals with kids all the time.
So I'm guessing that has not made her biological clock go crazy. Sure,
And she also, you know, she works with kids that have difficulties,
so she doesn't see a lot of normal kids. And then she comes home
to me and now she doesn't want to breathe with this. Yea, she
does not want this is the end of the line of this. So so
you know, and and then and then everything that's going on, well,
children be able to breathe anymore. It's true, so an odd time.
And then and then you go, well, do we want to have kids?
Well, if maybe we have kids, they are already out there and
help them become great people. And then and then there's this story and you're
like, yeah, my wife and I have talked about that as well,
the idea of adopting kids. And I said that both of us, in
our jobs, we tend to clean up other people's messes. That's a lot.
Now in this case, I'm not literally talking about cleaning up Adam Crowl's
poop or anything like that. I'm going to get on the table and take
a shit. But you know, when you're running helping to run a business
every day, a lot of stuff comes up and you are just constantly putting
out fire, so to speak. Right, And my wife does the same
thing with her job, and so I felt like, you know what,
adopting a kid is kind of like helping clean up somebody else, somebody else's
mess. Yeah, you know, And it's a weird way to look at
it, but that was the thing that I felt like, Well, we
would be natural at this because we're used to having to deal with a situation
that may not be ideal and try to like create the best thing you can
from it. So I think anybody who adopts it's very notable of them.
I think, I think like incredible. I think the big thing is that
I always hear from friends that have been adopted, did and stuff like you
always you always, they always, no matter what how great their family is,
they always want to know why the other people didn't want Yeah, and
that's hard. I had that to somebody, but they don't know who you
are, they don't know. They didn't not want you. Yeah, they
didn't. They didn't want the situation. And I don't know how you get
that to a person's mind. Yeah you know, because how do you tell
that to like a five year old? Yeah you know, you know why
didn't they want me? Then? I don't want you. That didn't they
didn't want to be parents. They didn't they didn't want you. They didn't
even fucking know you. Okay, little shit, no good back upstairs.
I don't want you because of you, But I can't give you back because
we signed the papers that made that might have been if that had been said
to this kid, maybe and then he would be normal because he was turned
out nobody wanted him because he was a piece of shit. He was.
Yeah, Now there's also this sort of added weird. I don't know if
it's weird, just the added Uh, I'll just call it like a level
of confusion. Also not the right phrase. I'm I'm having a hard time
finding the words for it. But this idea that they adopted the kid and
then they went on to have biological children, I excuse me, so so
in that and I listened to it a couple of times. They didn't think
they were able to have children, right, That's what I gathered. Okay,
that's sort of what I thought. And then you know, things,
things happen and suddenly you can have kids, right, Um, And so
the the sort of like am I part of this family? You know?
These aren't my real brothers? Like all of that starts to creep into this
guy's mind and he starts to sort of isolate himself from the family. I
mean, I know he's having some doesn't seeminal issues too, but it doesn't
ever seem like the family does it to him? No, But you know,
they they put in the episode that you know, he was five foot
seven and his twin brothers were like the six foot one athletes, and they
don't necessarily need to be like jock bullies to their adopted brother to not have
the adopted brother like literally looking up at these star athletes and not seeing himself
in there. But that happens in families that are are all like DNA swapped.
Yeah, it's it's it happens. You know, sometimes you have a
younger brother that's bigger than you. Right, I wouldn't know because I come
from a fantastic family where I was the best one. I forgot how many
brothers sisters do you? I just have a sister. She's younger. I
usually tell people I'm an only child, but it's nice. That pisses off
my sister. Yeah, how many years between you and your sister? Five?
No, my sister and I are about five years abart. Are you
guys closed? Yeah? Yeah, definitely. I was just cat sitting for
her. I was telling you a couple weeks ago, crazy fucking cat.
I had to deal with you, poor man. You're such a You're such
a good person. You know what you want to have. I always use
my sister. She used to have a cat and as her Lesbiana. Um,
all right, so this part I thought it was interesting. You tell
me if your brain went here as well. So they get this adopted kid
and they name him Tanner. Then they have twin boys and they name him
Tucker. And my guess is they would have named him Tucker and Tanner,
but because they already had a Tanner, they had to change the other twins
name. So now it's Tucker and Sam I don't know, or Salvator Salvatory
which has a t in it? Right? I just again in my never
ending quest to uh, to fucking blame victims and whatnot? Right, you
can't name your kids questions to blame victim, you know, Tucker and Tanner.
I'm surprised the little girl's name isn't Tammy. It's too much, just
too much for anyone to take. Well. I went the other way.
I was like, why is the one kid Salve Tory? Like, why
is the one kid got all the Italian in them and the other one?
The other ones are Whitey McGee and Whitey magoo. You know, So that's
why I would are you one the other way? You're like, shut up
your weirdos. My friends have a Tucker in a Tanner. Yeah. Oh,
reality Yeah, they've got five boys. Toby, No, Tucker,
Toby. Uh. And that's another There's there's four of them. There's another
one. You know, if you go to West Hollywood, you can get
a Tucker in a Tanner anytime you won. And it depends the further you
go down the street. It might you might be thinking, might getting me
from one's a different person, It might not be the same Sextually, I
think you're getting it from all right. So this episode in my brain from
my memories of listening to it when it was first released many many years ago,
this isn't one of yours, it's not one of mine. Um,
but this, in my brain was the episode with the craziest nine one one
call of t There were parts of this story Papa be live today if that
woman wasn't on that. Yes, it is one of the most infuriating and
also intense nine one one calls to ever come out of Sword and Scale.
Again, I did not remember this entire episode, but as soon as it
started, I was like, oh, this is the one with that crazy
nine one one call. She was horrible, where you got the twin brother
hiding in the closet trying to be as quiet as possible, because the killers
are still in the house. And yes, now I did in the house.
I've of course had to pull multiple I can't understand you. I had
a house this horrible woman. Um, do you mind if we start playing
some of these and kind of pick some of them. Let's let's let's let's
let's let's start where she should be fired? Well, why her answering?
Here's one. This happens a little bit later. But I would argue that
this might be the moment of the most of her inability to do her job
properly. I thought they must have called at five fifty five and she got
off at six. That it makes sense. It was. It was so
bad. So here's the horrible advice that Suzanne, can you take one more
call? Wow? Fuck? What's the worst that could happen? Right?
All right? So here's this nine one one woman's terrible advice to this poor
kid. Okay, what is your brother's name? What great? They'll be
last ballot? Huh uh huh Okay, And you don't want to go out
and make sure your parents are okay? Noo, okay, sure, no,
I mean, can you hear anything? I mean, Okay, what
did they do it. They're just talking now, so it okay. Her
advice for him to go outside and check to see if the parents are okay.
She's just not getting this at all. Well even worse, when't go,
he goes, should I? No? Yeah? No, dummy?
Would you who so weird? So that happens A spell your name like I'm
in the middle of being murdered? Could you do me a favorite? Can
you check your Social Security number in your last name? Like? Well?
And what what happens earlier in the call? I know I should have played
the earlier clip first, that would have made more sense, But I'm gonna
play that one now instead, which is you can hear this pandemonium happening in
the background, like she should immediately have her ears perked up and know that
some crazy shit is going down on the other side of that line. Can
I go back a little further? Yeah, when she says, what's your
address? What I need your address? Um, that's because he was on
a cell phone, right, Yeah, so didn't they change that? Um?
So your cell phone reads the number the address reads on a nine one
one call. Now interesting like a geolocation sounds I hope so because I felt
like that slowed down the situation as well, and then she was mad at
his service, right are you on at and T Well this I'm want to
play this clip right here. This is great because she called or he called
the nine one one, and then I guess his cell signal dropped or his
phone died or something. And then she calls him back, but he has
one of those quote unquote funny answering machines where I don't know if you ever
did this, but when I was fifteen years old and got like a phone
for the first time, my voicemail is me going hello, uh huh.
Actually you're talking to my voicemail right now. Now. I don't know if
you picked up up on this, but that's what happens in this episode.
I'm gonna play this right. I could not pick up on that. Check
this out. She is now going to call him back, and it's going
to go to his voicemail, but his voicemail is him going yeah, uh
huh, okay, just leave a message, and then she fucking hangs up
the phone and then there's another call back. All right, listen for that.
Here we go hello hello, All right, Now she's gonna call him
back Hello, So nine one one out, braider, do you need help?
Good? Hurting me? I can't understand you. Do you need help?
Don't hang out a tone? Please record your mething. So she was
listening, So now she hangs up, and now she's gonna call back,
and now you're gonna hear her. Well, I look back five zero too?
What did he heard you? In? Hello? Going on there?
Do you hear what I'm talking about? Now? It's sucking of all of
the voicemails to get because you can hear when it's crazy when it's actually him
on the phone. But that I'm telling you, that is him going uh
huh yeah, just leave a message, and then it goes to the voicemail.
That's fine, that's funny, that's really funny. But that when she
calls back and she's mad at him, Yeah, that's going on there.
I mean, excuse me, sir, this is nine one one. We
take things very seriously. Do you know what she what she punished? She
was not. They said something that she filed the call as a like family
domestic, domestic disturbance or something like that. But no, as far as
I know, she's not in trouble. She should have been punished for that,
like, there there, that's a that's a bad nine one one operator.
Yeah. Now, tell me if you had this experience, because you've
said before that when you when we're listening to these episodes, a lot of
times, you're just listening to it just as any listener would. You don't
know the story or anything. That was certainly the case for this episode.
For me the same thing. I was under the impression from the opening description
of the events that everybody died except for the little girl and one of the
twin brothers. But as far as I could tell, everybody who was attacked
with a bat that night, meaning meaning the father, the mother, and
the other twin brother, I thought all three of them had perished. And
then we find out that, you know, two of them are may as
well be dead. They're so fucked up now. But I don't know if
you had that, But I towards the end of the episode, I was
suddenly like, oh, wait Rose is still alive. I thought she very
confused. Every couple a couple of times there, I thought everyone was dead
except for the girl, and then I was like, oh, the one
the one brother survived and not the other other brother, and the dad,
but the mom had survived. Yeah, and then I was like, oh
mom and dad and the brother died. And then at the end and then
at the end it was mom and brother were a mess. Yeah, Um,
dad was dead, daughter was not attacked, brother survived the attack quite
well. Yeah. So yeah, because that added for me, added to
the stress of that nine one one call, was I had was thinking that
this was the brother, that maybe he he does get pulled out of the
closet or something, because this operator is just being so loud that yeah,
I thought that was going to happen. Yeah. Yeah, they never found
him though they never there somehow never found him. Yeah. That but the
idea that they were And I do have a third clip. We don't necessarily
need to play it, but my third partnerature where they're okay, let's do
it. Let's we got time to kill um. This is speaking of killing
Ted. This is more than nine one one call where and this to me
is the scariest part. That's why I pulled this clip because this is like
this early terrifying to me, where you can just hear his breathing, his
breathing, his voice shaking, and he's like they're in the room right now.
I remember that, Like, just do you hearing the you could hear
the fight or flight in him? Yeah? You didn't, you like yours?
Like is he gonna run out like they're You're just like he's just gonna
run out of there trying to get out of there, which happens in a
lot of these stories. She wasn't calming him down at all. She was
she was just making the situation worse. Well, let's hear it. It's
a little bit long, but it's really just it's ninety five minutes. It
shows only fifty. Yeah, it's longer than the rest of the episode.
We'll see you next week. No, it's not that long. But yeah,
let's all be scared together, hold me together. I let you know,
Okay, let me know if police you've made contact with your parents,
who you feel sure enough to go out, but you think he's still in
the house. He didn't see you, okay, just came in his room.
But he's tiding so that he can't see him. Who was she talking
new? Okay? Yeah, why isn't she putting yourself on mute? I
don't know, all right, Yeah, I don't know. He says he's
in a quiet room. I honestly, I'm not certain of this, but
I do wonder if it's just the recorded line from the nine one one operators,
because I've noticed in a lot of episodes and also my own research,
when you get nine one one calls, a lot of times you hear the
you hear what happens before the phone's even answered. You'll hear like a voice
kind of as they take the call. You'll hear some chatter between officers that
they're going to transfer the line. So it's very possible that I would like,
I would like to hear what the cops were saying. It would have
been interesting to me, Yeah, like whether they were rushing to get there,
whether they're just taking their time, because well, she asked about there.
I think she says they're at the door, and he says, go
around to the back. The backslo unlocked. They're so weird, you know.
I think they got there relatively quick. I mean he's on the phone
with her when they arrived quick enough though, like you were able to run
around the house and chase people and stuff like that. Yeah, Well it
doesn't help that they um, sorry, brain part, it doesn't help.
Yeah, that's it. Doesn't help stopping right there, it doesn't help.
Yep. Uh the daughter, So the dad goes down to see what the
hell is going on. And by the way, I love that they're like,
I think we can get three grand. Yeah, what a fucking plan.
That was just like you're you just threw your life away for three grand.
Yep. He missed the parole, He missed his or not parole,
his like probation meeting. So that guy, the probation officer, he got,
he got in trouble, he gotten punished, right, yeah, because
once again he just didn't do his job. I would argue the operator,
while she's terrible at her job, she did what she was supposed to do.
She did patch through emergency dispatch or whatever, like no officers came to
the scene. No, she was bad at her job. She was at
a job No, I guess. So, I mean as opposed to her
just hanging up on the dude. Well, you can hear that. You've
heard there's been episodes of like nine one like call that just gets hung So
this guy though, I'll talk to a guy that orders a pizza all day,
but it won't take like, oh that might be that might be in
trouble there. Yeah, but the probation officer, he was straight up not
doing his job. He likes. Was he overwhelmed though, I couldn't tell
if he was overwhelmed with he had so much going like so many cases.
I mean that one guy doesn't show one guy doesn't show up, You're like,
well, I can't I can't take my day out of that, which
I think happens a lot in that business. It's just the idea of if
he didn't show up, you have to go look for him, and if
he doesn't if you don't go look for him, then you have to like
file a piece of paperwork, like you have to just acknowledge that something happened
here. And this guy just didn't do any of that stuff. I know
a lot of people are bad at their job. Yeah, that's that's one
thing that's I mean, he should be ashamed and sadly, how many times
had he done that before nothing happened. Yeah, this is the story that
you hear about because it was so tragic. But I'm sure there's maybe instances
of even like a domestic assault or something that could have happened and been avoided
if he would just do his fucking job. Yeah, I don't. I
don't get it, Like it doesn't seem like the kind of job you would
want to take unless you wanted to help people. Yeah, it's it's interesting
when you find people in those businesses that are they don't have any care,
you know what, They don't have compassion because it's it's not the reward is
doing your job. It's not a financial rewarding job. Yeah, it's you
know, your your middle middle income, maybe even lower most times. You
know, maybe if you work enough you can become higher, higher middle income,
but yeah, why why of my average income? So middle income?
But if you're not, if you're not getting the reward from doing your job
and you still stay there, that's when you become those a bitter asshole,
right yeah, or just you know, get a different job where if you
don't care about it, somebody doesn't get their cheeseburger, you know, Like
why is it always like these just lazy people who are in such important positions,
Like that's what's so maddening about it. Yeah, going to going to
go into something there where it's not going to hurt somebody sell beds. Yeah,
um okay, so someone else about this case that we have not really
brought up yet, which is that Tucker had a buddy helping him out,
and this piece of shit's name was Mitchell, and this we go back before
Mitchell. Sure, let's go back, you know, let's go back to
before this episode even started. Let's start. Let's just go back in time.
Gotta get back in Dame. Sorry he was, he was los um.
Let's talk about the lady that was his mentor. Oh the all I
thought it was Christina Hendricks from Madman. That turns out it's Christine Hendrick.
Not really, It's funny. Yeah, this girl was quite a character too.
What was the point of her? I just I'm guessing that was probably
like the friend that that this our interview staff was able to speak with.
It was, I just meant in life, not in the show. She
was just like, I know I mentioned these kids, No you didn't.
You were just a junkie like them rats alls your Yeah. I would stay
up to four am with them. That's why they liked me. I'm like,
no, make you the mentor. Yeah, that doesn't make you mentor.
I mean to make you one of the losers is up at four am.
But ye blowing crack out your wicking butthole, I just to sound out
to my just turned into my day. He probably, what's what's next,
my buddy, my buddy Tom stayed he got he's a very funny comedian out
of England. But when he his mom found cocaine in his in his in
his drawer once, what's next? Pot? Wow? He was, he
was. He was a fast learner anyways, and Tom straight and narrow and
he's a straight edge. There you go, wink wink match man. Anyways,
but California sober. California's sober. He's Gavin Newsom is sober. Um.
She was just she wasn't helping that situation out. Now. The idea
that all of these teens would all hang together in the shady motel, what
a description, What a description of that place? Right? And you can
also the motel the poor motel manager who it's like you kids, you damn
kids and your huge parties get off my property. And then the next day
they like one room please, and he's like, God, damn, I
need that money, right, I really do. Maybe it's a lot of
like that kid that came in here yesterday. He wasn't wearing a sombrero.
But I could swear almost like bugs money exactly. Oh, no problem.
But if you were actually mentoring these kids, they wouldn't be there. You
wouldn't be there. That's the change of location right there. That just sounds
like a crack house. It sounds like the place where every you know,
the place behind the school where everybody goes, like they just had their own
hangout location. And the drug of choice was maybe not the drug of choice
but something. This drug was just terrifying K two or spice synthetic marijuana terrifying,
which I didn't even know because I'm in California, where there's real marijuana,
but apparently Wobragger synthetic marijuana just chemicals sprayed onto dried plants. Isn't that
when we remember when people are eating people's faces off in Florida? Wasn't that
with that? Oh? Ian? There is a sword and scale episode.
I love it. We did this episode in my wie, I mean the
show before I ever worked for them. That is all about that the face
eater, which was with something called salvia, which I think is a little
bit different than the K two, but it's the same idea. You could
just buy this ship over the counter right, um, that story is an
incredible story and was it for free or do you have it's a free one?
And spoiler alert, all those headlines were fucked up and wrong. And
that kid did not eat somebody's face was on like salvia and stuff. That
did He did eat somebody's face, right, he did. He had like
a psychotic break though. He just had like a crazy probably from salvia right
his the like all of the tests on him, there was no drugs or
alcohol, I mean, like from using it before. Probably i'd probably have
a snap, a little switch in your brain. Yeah, I think I
actually told this story on that episode when I did a rewind of it all
those years ago. But it's been many years back in the day. But
I's right, I guess co host roommate of mine who purchased some salvia from
the local grocery store because you could literally buy it from a grocery store,
And we decided to try this at my place and I took a hit of
it and I didn't feel anything at all. That's how much of a junk
That's how much of a junkie I am. But my friend was sitting in
the chair across for me and It was one of the most surreal thirty seconds
of my life. With my it was like talking to a dog, like
my friend. I was talking to him and he could not He was looking
at me, but he couldn't understand the words that I was saying. Really,
and he started to get like really uncomfortable and shifty in his chair,
and then he fell out of his chair. He ran up to me,
he have my shoulders and he said, is this heaven? And then he
took off running out of my room, knocked a picture frame off of the
wall in the hallway, and then I followed him out to the couch where
or to the living room where he stopped by the couch and turned around and
was like, Hey, what's up man? What are we doing? And
I was like, do you know what just happened? And then he told
me a fifteen minute journey that he had been on in that thirty second period
of time. Really, it was one of the most time Sally totally did.
And I had asked him if he had any memory of asking me,
is this heaven? And he said that he remembered like being on a beach,
like being on a beautiful beach, and like talking to like a rock,
is what he had said. I was the rock, which I think
is a metaphor for my you being friend ship, you know, but actually
meaning you were the wrestler. Now that's right. I became Dwayne. Anyway,
that was my Salvy experience, which is watched a friend completely lose their
mind, lose their ship, and you know there's people out there they go,
that sounds fantastic. Sure, well listen, I mean we've all had
our We've all had some. Yeah, I'm one of them. Listen,
We've all, uh, we've all had our dance with nature. We've all
had an argument with the video video game. Yeah, I remember, we
made our own. We had poppies growing at this house that I actually talked
about, the house that they didn't pick up rent for four hundred fourteen months.
So we had poppies growing in the front yard. And one of my
buddy's friend came over and said he got heroin poppies. So we bled them.
You murdered those people who told you about the poppies. We bled those
people, and we bled the poppies, scraped it all off, cooked it
all up, and tried it. And I had an argument with the video
game machine. Really because it was chasing me around. Oh my god,
yeah, I can't remember. I think it was Gilaca Galactica. I think
that's why I was like chasing. I just kept I kept trying to leave
the arcade, and it kept bringing me back. Oh my god. Yeah,
that's wild man, it was crazy. Well, the the killers in
question in this story, let's they both claim that they were not smoking spice
K two the night of these murders. Of course, you just do that
on your own. I like that. During the interrogation, he was just
very indignant about the fact that he didn't smoke, and how dare they accuse
him of smoking. I was just always had a cup of tea and then
I went to murder and then beating my father to death or whatever. Um
So, anyway, I mentioned his name a little while ago, this guy
Mitchell, this is his drug buddy. And both of these guys are going
around talking about like they've murdered people before, right, just joking about it.
Now, listen, unless you host a podcast about a murder shell,
it's never cool to joke about murdering. You can joke about murder unless you
can joke about murder. Uh, let's put it like this, before you're
going. They had a third friend they did what was his friend's name?
His name was Ian. Oh yeah, that popped out my face really quick.
Yeah, this is gonna be there. Their driver, getaway getaway driver,
and they were gonna split the three thousand dollars three ways. Oh my
god, the money. They were just they were in it for the money.
That Yeah. I think my parents might have like three thousand dollars somewhere
around the house. We have to gather it up. Yeah, got the
bat, let's do it, man. Oh man, We'll just we're gonna
go. We're gonna go all the way to Iowa on that money. Yeah.
Yeah. Now, Ian, the person in this story turns out to
be my hero. Yeah yo, because he's a No. Well, he
was like, you guys are just joking, right, you guys aren't gonna
actually kill some Oh are going to I gotta go. You remember when you
guys were joking about killing somewhere. You guys are joking, right, You're
not Okay, Well, I'm gonna move home with my parents. Doesn't sound
fun anymore. These guys, though, again, they they talk about like
Tucker especially, he has this game that he is making himself the victim for
everything. He's just talking about how he has killed somebody before. He said
something about watching his brother rape his sister, and it's like he was adopted
when he was just days old. And the people who are getting interviewed in
this story are like being told for the first time that their friend was lying
to them and that he didn't do that. Was that Mitchell's girlfriend that they
were talking to. Was that the one lady that there's a lady. There's
a girl that says he would wake up every night and from a nightmare,
right and I would I would hold him or something like that. Was that
that was Mitchell's girlfriend? I think so, I'm not. You know,
it gets a little bit confusing when you got the two guys who are just
they kind of start to seem one and the same to me a little bit.
If you're if you're a girl or a boy and somebody starts doing that,
just walk away. I know you think they're your friend, but they're
not. Yeah, you know, if somebody has murders every night, not
murders, nightmares every night while you're in a crack house smoking salve, yah,
Yeah, just go think about it. Think about I don't know.
I'm guessing there's kids are out there that that's the alternative and that's better.
But this kid, Tucker, that was not better. Yeah. His home
life was fantastic by the sounds of it. Was there things that you had
to do and they had to keep up to Did you have to keep good
grades? And it was tough for him? Yeah? Right, that's just
called being a responsible adult. Yeah. I wish I'd known more about why
he had gotten arrested. I know it was for drugs, but how he
like was he selling them? Right? Yeah? They don't really, they
don't say because he did prison time by the same yeah, but not that
much. It was like I was kind of writing down the notes where it
was like he committed the crime in spring and then he went to jail that
winter, and then by February he was out again. Right, So it
wasn't like it was the crazy teenage lock up. It wasn't. But still
still, so what do you is there's a certain person right that if that
doesn't stop you in your tracks and change your directions, it doesn't, right,
Sorry I say it again. So if when you get arrested as a
kid, if that doesn't resonate and it stops you and puts you in a
different direction. Then you're going like right off the right off the deep end.
Yeah, you would think that the prison experience is going to turn you
either turn you toward the light or turn you more in toward whatever bad path
you're going. I had to go to the police department for a fix it
ticket and I fucking hated it. So yeah, let alone the delousing and
they yeah, bending over and having somebody look up my butt hole for a
pen or whatever you smuggle into a prison, you should be lucky. If
they're just looking up your butt hole in prison. We've heard a lot worse
things happen. That's how it starts. Once they look inside it. Then
they like to hide things in it, mostly penises. Yeah, I don't
think either of us would do very well in prison. Oh, I'd cry.
No, you gotta beat somebody up. Haven't you seen the movies?
Man, You gotta beat someone up. The first you gotta show up like
you've been beat up, and then you got to make someone your bitch.
The first day doesn't much worse, No, thank you? Yeah, Like,
can't I just be like the cool, funny guy with all the all
the movie references that you want to How guys, don't you want trivia?
Yeah? I can tell you, guys about a murder show that I used
to host. Today, guys, you guys want to listen to my show
new episodes out with the new guest host. Guest host, I can say,
co host, son of a batch, you are a co host?
I'm in. Well, let's talk more about these co killers. Let's talk
about Mitchell and Tucker. Mitchell, how white is that too? By Mitchell
and Tucker. Yeah, sounds like they should have been doing white collar crimes
instead of murder. Totally agree, But instead they are trying to break down
who is going to be doing the killing. Now. Later we'll learn that
they both point the finger at each other, and they both swear that the
other person had the idea and that they never knew this was going to happen.
But there's plenty of people who survived this incident that could explain what really
did happen. But Mitchell had said to Tucker, just what a stand up
guy he was. He said, you know a pel just for you,
I'll kill your parents so you don't have to What a nice guy, sweet,
And I'll kill your sister and then yeah, exactly, that sister that
you love so much? Yeah, yeah, sorry, we're going to say
I like her too much? Can you kill her for me? Yeah?
That I want to play another was busy, he was murdering the ship at
a people that he really was. And the fact that excuse me, way,
when you see Mitchell, do you see a redhead from from a modern
family? Sure, yeah, that makes it even more disturbing. Now that's
really funny. Um. But the fact that this whole thing was seen by
the little sister Isabella, who overheard that they were trying to like steal mom's
purse. And so this little girl, amidst all the violence, found the
purse and hid the purse and then ran at her brother with like a lighter
bat to try to stop him, and he just takes the bat and then
proceeds to like beat everybody up with it. That just was so messed up
to me. And this idea also, by the by the way, she
gets an Italian name too. That's right, you know, maybe that's why
he was jealous this whole time. Yeah, Tucker, Tucker, Tino Grandpa.
But Tanner didn't snap and kill anybody. He didn't. That's true.
Um, maybe they should have been like twins like Arnold, Arnold and Danny.
Oh yeah, because so much shorter, and then he would have been
happy and everybody be alive today. I want to play a little bit of
audio of the little girl because it's heartbreaking to hear. Okay, but also
we should talk about him. Okay, Hello, I'm a little girl,
I say to Murder. I didn't want to see it. My mama's mob.
That was a clip, and any any thoughts on that. She sounds
a little bigger than I thought she was. Woke up and I went down
Scars and I saw this boy pounding my mom are my mom was in there
and chuckle in here too, tell us to go back up. Scar My
idea. I went down Star and he's saying, you containing my purse.
But then I wind her around and hint of purse is he wouldn't back in
and take it. This idea too, that the little girl just can't comprehend
why this is happening North She but she just keeps saying like I thought you
loved me, Like why would you do this? Because I that's the only
way that little kids know how to interpret the world is like through love or
hate, like the very sort of bottom line type emotions. How did I
disappoint you? Yeah? Yeah, so that she sounds very like Brave in
the retelling of that story, but just the amount of trauma that must have
caused her. Also, trauma doesn't always show up right then. Yeah,
she might be fifteen when it pops up. She might be twenty when it
pops up, right, Yeah, I just think it's really it's it's gonna
affect her, And that's that's what that's what's so sad about when you hear
things that happen to kids. They have so much longer to live than you
know, if it happens to somebody when they're fifty, when it happens to
somebody when they're forty, you know, yeah, yeah, so you know,
you just you just think about all the all the things that you have
to do in life. Still that that's gonna be held over him. Well,
we can talk about it a little bit, but along those lines though,
that's still not adopting a fucking kid. That is sort of the like
message or moral though. Toward the end of the episode, though, is
this idea that the family is somehow healing together. I don't do you.
You don't have to happen to have the phone call with the uncle calling up
Tucker while he's in prison and saying, hey, why don't you calm it
down? And just because they remember he's gonna fight it and just plead guilty.
That was that was an interesting Tucker's attitude on the phone. He was
still the victim. Well, what I thought was interesting, going back just
slightly, is after the murders are done, the two guys are hiding in
the basement, and then Tucker escapes out the bottom like a back window and
runs off into the night. And according to his like victims story, he
was just trying to like flee the situation and then just go take a nap,
go sleepy sleep at his friend's house, versus Mitchell, who just charged
up the basement stairs and pushed the little girl out of the way. He
didn't make it very far at all. Was that which hold on which wasn't
a Tucker there was arrested first. I think it was Mitchell that was arrested
first, and then Tucker was found later because one of them drove away right,
one of them drove stuck, and then he said, like in part
of his his like sob story was that he was like fleeing Mitchell and that's
why he had run away from You imagine just sleeping after that. I know
that's the craziest. Have a little bath of tea and just yeah, people,
people, it's insane. There's gotta be a week way we can test
these people for they're they're having that kind of mental ability. Just put them
all into our special little soldier road for it. Yeah, put him on
our special camps. Um. They only stopped their attack because the police came.
And when the police were they knew that they knew the police were coming
because the nine one one operator told him from a distance, Yeah, they
heard her shouting through the floorboards. The police are there. Um. But
I thought this was kind of a strange moment, which is that the police
discovered Uh, maybe this is why I thought that the mom and the brother
were both dead, because police found the bodies of Rows and Salvatur at the
bottom of the stairs. Their bodies had been dragged there, and their bodies
were on top of the bats that they were beaten with. So I'm thinking,
now, maybe that's the moment that I assumed that they were dead because
their bodies were dragged. But also didn't they say they were beaten so bad
they couldn't even tell what sex they were. Yeah, yeah, I was
just like I've heard her beat the pits off her. But oh, we're
not doing any more shows. You gotta take that. That's gotta be Can
you believe that? Because it's fucking aleric um. But this idea of them
hiding the bats under the body, yeah, I'll never find out. I'm
not a great place to hide it. You know, You're you're really only
saving a couple of seconds there. They're gonna find him pretty quick. And
Papa, Papa didn't He didn't even make it out of the house, right,
Papa was now he died there, Yeah, exactly. And it's it's
weird because when they describe the family, Dad sounds like he's a pretty scook
them guy. What guy scoop them like, you know, like a well
built man, Okay, and couldn't take care of himself, so he must
have been surprised. Yeah, sorry, I'm still caught on scookum must be
a Canadian word. I'm not his word before you'll be using it now I
will. Hey, look at that piece of candy. It's but I want
to lead back to what you were saying before, which is when it came
to now the trials of these two guys and the uncle telling Tucker like,
look, you were gonna put the family through all of this again if it
goes to trial, So please please just take some responsibility and like, yeah,
change your plea, man, don't make the little girl go on the
stands and have to tell her story again. Yeah, exactly, So they
do have that wish is granted, and he does change his plea, which
is a very good thing. Um. I do want to play a quote
here from when he's being interrogated that I just thought was a real zinger from
the from the police officers had more than anyone but my mom. I mean,
I guess I'm always had a bone to being with her. But she
talk me every other weeks to my therapist kneed and a for away was sick.
She's tacking up from school, always taking me to my quarantines. Until
I got older. She did too much of you. One talk about her,
I thought, we don't let you, don't I one she was saying,
no, I don't remember any her. I do remember doing that's when
I went whether whether you remember, yeah, whether you remember or not get
it, whether you remember it or not, you did it. You did
it? What do you think? He also say to him, Look,
don't bullshit me too. Doesn't he say that? At some point he does,
like I'm not stupid. Yeah, he kind of loses it a little
bit, which sounds like it needed to be done by dad. Dad was
a little too nice, and yeah, you know, well he was like
a like a ball coach, sports coach. I'm ball coach. You gotta
keep your nuts, you gotta keep your testicles up by your dick. I'm
a ball coach. That click, though, Tanner saying she did too much
for me. Hold that Tanner Tucker that, oh sorry, that's Tucker.
That's why you can't name your kids Da Tuck. Yeah, Tucker the killer,
saying that he always had a bone to pick with his mom because she
was such a great mom. That's the part that I can't wrap my brain
around. I don't understand. I don't understand. You know, you fight,
you fight with your You know you have a parent that you can you
you might not see eye to eye with and you might you know, it
doesn't matter well, you know, it doesn't matter. There's a parents.
Sometimes there's a relationship where your parent will tell you something you're like, you
don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Yeah, and then somebody else
that you know that you think is more important than your parents. I'm saying
love or whatever, but just does something and tells you the exact same thing,
and you believe it because they're just not your parent. Yeah, you
know what I mean, So that they might have that kind of relationship,
can see that, but he's taken it to a new level. This.
Your mom's shown you underlying, undying love no matter who you know, no
matter what you do. She's taking you to these things. She's taking you,
she's you know, and you're beating a piece of shit and you're adopted,
and you're saying that she doesn't treat you well because you're adopted, that
there's a difference between you and the other kids. Yet she's showing you just
as much love, if not more right, And I thought it was interesting
that in this episode, Mike says that they reached out to the other brother
for his comments, and he understandably didn't want to be interviewed, but then
he did send in a statement that sort of put it on mental health services.
And I thought it was interesting that Mike afterwards was like, nah,
well, we don't really think it had it wasn't that because it showed that
they had done everything that they kind of could. And again, thankfully Tucker
did change his plea to no contest, and you know he does give a
somewhat sincere apology. I don't know, We've played a lot of apologies on
the show. I feel like it sounded sincere enough. I suppose. I
like that they both got life with no parole. That part is great.
But Mitchell, this fucking jerk, took his case all the way to trial
and then instead of the moment where he should be talking about how sorry he
was, instead he just starts bitching about his lawyers not doing the job that
he paid them for. Right, um, and I want to play I'm
sure he didn't pay for them to do That's also probably true. Are we
paid for it with our pay damn it? But this is a great moment
when the judge is like interrupting him to tell him that this isn't the place
to be bitching about you can I say that you listened to that, and
then he listened to his response. The kid was so dumb he didn't understand
what the judge was talking to him about. Yeah, well, he just
want he was gonna say what he was gonna say. Let's let's play it
because it's uh, this is for you and it's free. You don't even
have to get it on. Plus really really pitching that Plus has got more
things. But I know this is not your impal. That you're saying now
is your basis for your appeal. There's a helport. Yes, you know
what I can say all this today because all this is going to be sent
a drink up to the pelport. You need to say. I even want
to say to the help you don't have to see all those times now for
the teleport that your arguments. They just want to make sure to question that.
Very polite judge, by the way, very polite judge. All they're
trying to do as a judge is to like make sure that you understand the
trial to be a fair process. Like half the time the judge is just
like is like, and they saying this to the jurors too, like are
you getting this? Do you? Does this process make sense to you?
Because in American courts. We don't want you to think that that the system
is raked. That doesn't help anybody. Um, But like I know people
that think it is right, of course, and it probably is sometimes there
he is right there, that's the guy I was talking about. But in
this particular case, like we said, this guy just wanted to say what
he was going to say, and the fact that he just went on for
another twenty minutes, it just shows how little remorse he had for the actions
that he did. You know, if there's any I've been a time that
somebody's tasers should go out by mistake, it was right while he was talking.
Just freeze up and piece himself. Yeah, that would have bean it
to like America's Funniest videos. I would have watched that for sure. So
the sort of wrap up has talked about in this episode, again, much
to my surprise, Rose not dead but in a coma for two weeks and
then has recovered permanently disfigured. They said something about like seven plates in her
head and seven more plates in her face. That was stupid. I apologize
everyone, and then I joke about these things. If you don't joke,
you cry. That's right, I agree. Yeah. And then the other
seven plates though, that poor lady just that's she feels that every day when
you're going through the airport, going through security. That's every time, all
right, I gotta go that one because I have a plate mad Actually that's
the person that you want to have sneak stuff in, yeah, you know,
because and they're like, no, listen, it's not me, it's
the plates, and go okay, okay, go on through. And then
I got a free flask in there, you know what I mean? Look
at you getting a flask through. That's what you're smuggling through. I gotta
get a flash through this. The other twin brother Sell, he was in
a hospital for sixteen months, and even though people thought he'd never walk or
talk or take care of himself again, he has recovered some basic mobility skills.
Can't live by himself again. I don't want to be too morbid here,
but wouldn't have just been easier if he died? I you know what
I was thinking about that. I was trying to find out if when I
heard that, how far he'd recovered, because it sounds like he's walking um,
because they at first he had it eating too he couldn't eat. Yeah,
so he had a feeding tube and his body would so he'd never eat
again, and he couldn't talk and basically turned into a Metallica song. Uh,
but I'm laughing about it. But at the same time, no,
I'm glad he didn't die. Yeah, I don't want to wish death on
anything. But when when you when you asked, like, do you think,
I think, yeah, you know, I think he got back to
a point where there is some sort of quality of life. Yea, even
though it isn't the you know, the quality that you want. So I
think I think the twin brother just the guilt. I bet you he's got
a lot of guilt that he should I fought harder should, you know.
So I think that's the one that you should be we should be worried about
the most, because it sounds like he's, you know, he's the caretaker
of the whole family now, right. But it is interesting to note that
they have all stayed together, including being in touch with the evil person who
did all they said they got to forgive him. Yeah, I can understand.
Yeah, But at the same time, I'm like, it's like,
how how you have to be such a strong person to like recover from something
like that and then to allow yourself to forgive that person. I don't know,
it's sad that they're that person because it says to you how great of
apparent they were. Yeah, and then to have the kid that they adopted
turn into this giant piece of shit and yeah, only five foot seven though
he's not that giant. Yeah, but but yeah, it was just,
it was just I kind of feel I don't know, I don't know.
I've not forgiven people for a lot less. I'll tell you that. So
I had a roommate X roommate, Yeah, owes me a lot of money.
And then I'm sure you're fired up and wishing farts on his face every
all the time. But but the truth truth, you've not forgiven people for
far less. How do they do that? Yeah? That to me is
like just it's wild. When they say that it's the only way to move
on. I'm like, oh, there's a lot of funny ones. You
probably probably pick out a COLI. Yeah, I'm not sending my Christmas gardenship.
Yeah, it's true, But I mean, I guess there must be
a part of it that there's this little girl that was involved in all this
too, and that little girl has a lot of trauma to deal with and
needs people to like show her how to be strong, right, and if
her own family can't do that, then she's really going to be in trouble.
So the fact that her family is able to do all this is like
incredibly noble true. True, I guess I hear what you're saying, though,
Like there are other ways, but maybe that's the healthiest way to do
it. Yeah, I guess. So. It's just sad that, you
know, as as they get older, they'll get less help. Yeah,
you know, I get there. She's she's not the cute little girl anymore.
Get over things because people won't know where, you know, wherever she
goes, they won't know what happened to her, right, what's her problem?
Yeah, her family was beaten to death in the basement. Right.
Well, And it's interesting because we've had sort in scale stories where there are
the people. It's like about the person who did survive all of that horrible
stuff and learning how to not compartmentalize a bit, learning how to like put
it into perspective so that it doesn't destroy the rest of your life. Well,
that male sexual abuse guy with the trucker. Do you remember that?
Yes, yes, I mean he didn't forgive that guy, but you know
we moved on, Yeah, exactly. He had to find a way to
kind of move on from that. So, you know, this is definitely
a really sad story. It's very sad, but it's very it's it's kind
of you hope, you hope the best for them, totally. Yeah,
anything further to add, well, I'd like to do a voicemail from you
know, oh you have no voice. The voicemails I Mike and let After
the show, I just want to thank you. Michael's fantastic and from Longbridge
is having a good time, and Ian and matter fantastic. Keep on playing
with them. Yeah yeah, I love hearing from the fans. We want
to lead from you guys. Please reach out to us on social I'm on
Twitter at Matt Fondelier. Ian's on Twitter at or sir bag Bag. And
then we also do other shows too. I'm on a much lighthearted, much
more lighthearted show called The water Cooler. It is a fun show. It's
crazy. Recently a guest and I have a great time. I don't do
anything else. I just did at home and look out the window. Now
you're on Enjoying Orange License with Jeff and Ian. Yeah, we talk about
hockey. Hockey season is in full gear, things are going. Yeah,
my goodness, get out to a hockey game if you haven't been to one.
NHL Best Board World And we're getting close to Thanksgiving if it's not already
upon us. So very thankful for all the listeners out there. Thank you
guys. I hope you have some nice turkey. Yeah, I'm sure somebody
will be able to cut the turkey much easier than other people. You freaks.
So here's the deal. In this story, they talk about how they
want to focus on hope and love, and so they end all of their
communications with jk LP, which stands for just keep loving people. And here
on our show we end it with another initial dB a D, which we
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