What up for everybody. Welcome to another episode of Let's Ask Paul, the
podcast where you can ask me Paul Abernathy anything you want about the National Electrical
Code all things electrically related. On today's episode, we are going to be
answering some questions that are submitted over at the Paul Abernathy dot com portal.
Now, if you're not familiar with that portal, it's a free service sponsored
by Wicks that allows you to ask me Paul Abernathy anything you want about the
National Electrical Code. Only thing you got to do is put your name email
address, and if I get it, I will answer either back in an
email or if selected, I will answer it on a podcast much like the
one today. So check it out. A free service sponsored by Wicks.
I thank you Wiks for the partnership. All you got to do is just
go to Paul Abernathy dot com and put in your question. All right,
So we have some questions that were submitted and we're going to go through them.
I will tell you there is a lot of questions that come through the
portal, not just by people asking questions, but people ask about programs,
our training programs, and one of the questions that constantly get asked to me
is are we only exam prep? Is our code classes or the things that
we teach only exam prep? That is not accurate because we have what's called
the Basic in the Enhanced program that we just launched a couple of weeks ago.
Those are NEC learning programs that obviously are designed for learning the NEC.
Could you use them for exam prep? Absolutely, we have the database of
exam prep questions, we have all that available. But it is truly an
NEC learning program. And one of the beautiful things about that new program is
that I was able to drop the price on it and get it down but
actually give you more than our previous programs. So again I wholeheartedly recommend our
Basic or our Enhanced program. Now, the difference in the two for those
that are asking, is that the Basic program is just our course material.
You get to log in through our website, you have access to it,
it doesn't expire. It does come with a database of code questions and its
own associated videos and quizzes and things like that. But there's the Enhanced version
that also gives you one year access to our video platform over on fast tracks
Tube. And I can tell you. There's some videos on there that are
eight hours long and twenty not twenty eight hours long and twelve hours long that
pay for itself, whether it's grounding and bonding or it's full calculations. So
again, there's a lot of content, and we'll be adding more and more.
We're constantly adding more. And also we're going to be uploading here shortly
recordings from our Wednesday Night sessions that I've recorded through the year, and those
are going to be available in their own little series over on fasttracks Tube.
If you're interested in Fasttracks Tube and you're not a student of ours, you
can still get access to Wednesday Nights and you still can get all those videos
by just going to fasttrackstube dot com. We have a fifty percent off right
now, just fifty off all caps, fifty off, and you can get
fifty percent off your annual subscription. I can tell you right now that eight
hours video on electrical calculations is worth it in itself. You're talking like forty
nine bucks for a year. That's with the fifty percent off, and you
get an eight hour video on nothing but calcum relations. But also you can
step up to the twelve hour video on grounding and bonding. Or you can
even go watch the two hour webinar I did on secondary conductors and feeder conductors
or feeder taps. Great stuff is available over on fast tracks Tube, so
check it out. So great, great benefit and great value to you.
All Right, today's question, the very first one that was that I'm going
to look at today, was submitted and it says, as per the twenty
twenty three NEC Code, are ceiling lights included in the GFCI requirement. Okay,
so there is a two part question of this because I didn't understand exactly
what he's asking. So in the basement, you're required under the twenty twenty
three edition as well as the twenty twenty edition that it's no longer dealing with
finished or unfinished basements. So if I have a basement and the basement is
finished off, but it is a basement, then it's going to have to
have GFCI protection on the receiptles not going to be required for the lighting.
It doesn't matter whether the basement is finished or unfinished anymore. And that's in
contrast to when you have a commercial building with the basement, then it's only
requires GFCI protection on the receptacles if it is unfinished space, not finished space.
That seems kind of weird to me, but that's the way it is
in the code. So residentially speaking, that it's going to Is the lighting
going to be on with the have to be on GFCI in the basement.
Absolutely not. It does not have to. Now. As far as being
AFCI protected, yes, okay, And so that is a totally different thing
than what he was asking in his question. So I did send him a
follow up and I'm said, be a little more specific in your question,
and he did exactly what I tell people to do. And though so kudos
for the individual that did this. He did follow up. He did let
me know this was in follow up to a previous request, and he went
in more detail. And so here's what response. He says, I'm sorry
I was not specific enough. What I'm trying to ask was referring to roughing
in a basement with two bedrooms, a bathroom, family room, and utility
room. And the twenty twenty three EEC Code requires GFCI protection and AFCI protection
for the brand circuits. I was wondering if the GFCI protection is for the
receptacles only or should the ceiling lights be included in that GFCI protection. And
the answer to that is no, you don't have to put the ceiling lights
on GFCI. You can if you would like, but you're not required to.
But the receptacles, the brand circuits supply those receptacles absolutely, whether it's
a finished basement or an unfinished basement, whether I agree with that or not,
and to be honest with you, I don't necessarily agree with that.
My problem with it is where are we going to stop if you're in an
area that's in a floodplaine, are they going to require your living room or
septacles to be GFC at some point? What about the bedrooms? What about?
So again, be careful what we asked for. But in your question,
no, the lighting is not required to be GFC I protected. Okay,
all right, so hopefully it answers that question. Let's see here we'll
go on to another question that was submitted as well. All right, all
right, so let's go on and move on to the next question that we
have. This one was submitted and this was a while ago. I'm just
catching up, so bear with me here. I might have probably already answered
this one in an email, but let's go on and knock it out here.
It says, good morning, sir, if possible, I would appreciate
a response via email. Okay, So I'm sure I responded, as I
have quite a few of your podcasts to catch up on. You have been
very helpful in the past, and I know you will have the answer to
my question. I am in the process of finishing your video de Rating Demystified
two point zero. Okay for those that don't know that, I have a
video out there that talks about de rating conductors and how to deal with adjustment
and corrections. And it's over on fast Tracks Tube and it's called de Rating
Dimistified two point zero. But good news, folks that are over on fast
Tracks Tube are exclusive video platform. I also have a new edition called de
Rating Demystified three point zero and it's been updated for the twenty twenty three edition
of the NEC. So check that out if you're over there as well.
It says, I know you prefer if we state which code we are in,
so since I am in Texas, I would prefer twenty twenty three NEC.
Okay, So my listeners are out there listening, I love it because
I always say, if you're going to ask me a code question, make
sure you tell me what edition of the NEC you're working at. Why is
that important? Well, dude, I teach people all over the country.
Most of you either know me on these social media platforms. But I do
a lot of work with companies all over the country and I get calls constantly,
and I'm working on as a consultant to some contracting firms and engineering firms
in other parts of the country. They might still be on two thousand and
eight. There's believe it or not, there is some questions. I still
get about two thousand and five a NEC. Can you imagine that? But
I do get the questions. A lot of times it's from attorneys or something
that are doing research for a case and they need to go back. In
fact, the other day I was even dabbling for a case I'm working on
even earlier than that, to give them some background on the code changes in
the ramifications for accepting and adopting codes and what can happen if you don't.
So I do a lot of that work as well. So I am very
sincere when I tell folks out there, please tell me what code cycle you're
on, because my head is wrapped around and I am not getting any younger,
and I do have trouble remembering things from the two thousand and eight,
two thousand and five, twenty eleven, two thousand and fourteen, two thousand,
in twenty twenty seventeen. Now they're twenty twenty three, and guess what,
I am already starting to dabble in the twenty twenty six editions. So,
dude, if you could get in this head right now, okay,
I wish I could actually take a USB drive and stick it in my head
and download everything and give it to you, but I can't. So you've
got to be very specific on what code cycle you in, and I will
do my best, and I research everything so I might know it off the
top of my head on certain things, but I like to verify, and
if you're a customer of mine and i'm your consultant, you can bet that
I research it so that I know that I'm giving you the best possible answer.
Okay, So just bear with me, but always tell me what code
cycle you're on, because I got so many of them bouncing around in my
head that I just want to make sure. Okay, It goes on to
say, I was doing some test prep questions on adjustments and corrections for ambient
temperature and number of current carrying conductors. So he was doing work on three
ten fifteen B one one and three ten fifteen C one of the National Electrical
Code. Okay, So in doing a little adjustment and correction work, says
one particular question, gave me a feeder load of eight hundred and fifty ampiers
non continuous load. Okay, it's XJHW DASH two aluminum conductors, ambient temperature
ninety four degrees fahrenheit, four current carrying conductors. Okay, so already we
know it's other than eight eighty six degrees fahrenheit. Okay, we already know
that. We already know that it is a thirty degree of celsius thirty degrees
celsius eighty sixtgrees fahrenheit. We already know that it's not that, so there's
going to be a temperature correction. And then it says four current caring conductors,
So we already know there's going to be an adjustment because we have more
than three current carrying conductors in the equation. So he already knows that,
and he's identified that, so good job. You can tell he's a student.
Okay, all right, terminal ratings of seventy five degrees fahrenheit fair enough.
Says I took the eight hundred and fifty amps, divided it by point
nine to six per the nine degree column in table three ten fifteen B one
one, and divided again by point eight per three ten dot fifteen C one
for the four current current conductors. That gave me eleven hundred and seven amp
years. I'm not gonna not say I don't trust him, but I gotta
do it myself. Y'all know how that works. So I'm gonna go do
hundred and fifty divided by point nine six divided by point eight. Okay,
so he's right. Okay, he just gonna verify that. So he's right.
So it's eleven hundred and seven. So it says, for example,
if I run a feeder and I have two parallels, I would need the
conductor capacity for each to be at least five hundred and fifty four amps.
That is correct, That is correct, he says. Now for my question,
now that I have the opacity of the conductor, am I searching for?
Now that I have the opacity of the conductor that I'm searching for.
Since the question gave me seventy five degrees C terminals, well will I be
searching for a conductor in the ninety degree C column or the seventy five degrees
C column? Thanks in advance. Okay, great question. Watch the d
rating demystified a little closer and you'll get your answer. But remember you use
the ninety degree values because the conductors were XHHW dash too. Right. So
when you went and looked at the ambient and got the multiplier, you were
in the ninety degree column. Correct, yes, And when you went in
the number of current current conductors that did matter. That was for so you're
using point eight. Okay. What's important is the value that you took the
for the ninety four degrees fahrenheit That point ninety six you took from the ninety
degree column because the conductor's insulation is rated ninety. So since you're able to
take these values from the ninety you're going to go find those conductors that are
five hundred and fifty four amps from the ninety Okay. Now, once you
found that conductor in the ninety degree column of three ten sixteen. Then all
you're going to do is to check your math is you're going to use multiplication
to work your way down. Okay, that's it, right, So that's
all you're going to do. So you're going to be looking in the ninety
degree column. Now at the end of the day, you can exceed the
value under the seventy five because of the terminal limitations. The only real reason
you're going to ninety is because you did all the You did the actual ambient
temperature correction from insulation. It was rated ninety, so you get to use
the ninety And then what you're doing is making sure that after you apply the
adjustment and correction that you still have a conductor that can handle them load.
That's a key, and your load doesn't exceed the value under the seventy five
degree column because you're limited to one ten dot fourteen c terminal and temperature limitations.
Okay, so yes, you were actually absolutely right. You're using division
because you know what the load is. You use division to work up.
Once you get up, you go to the ninety degree column, pick the
conductor that can handle the opacity, and then you use multiple multiplication with the
same values, right, same values that you had before the point ninety six
and the point eight and now you multiply whatever it is under the ninety Now
you do multiplication and you come down, and now you're trying to see that
you still have a conductor that's at least good for what five hundred and fifty
four ams, right, because you still have to handle the load. Okay,
So anyway, definitely going to be using the ninety degree column, but
you're not going to exceed the value under seventy. So for all intensive purposes,
when we go through this little adjustment and correction thing that we do,
all we're doing is to make sure that even after those adjustment corrections, that
we still have a conductor that can one handle the load and two we're not
exceeding the value that's given to us under the seventy five degree column. That's
it, Okay, So go back watch that d rating mystified video again.
And I'll remind you that I do have a book. I can't say when
it's coming out, but it's going to be called Just Calculations, and it's
going to go and break these things down in extreme detail as well. So
make sure you keep an eye out for that I am probably two thirds maybe
maybe a little over half of the way through with that book, and now
I'm able to get more time to focus on it. So hopefully I'll get
that done here shortly and we'll get this out to you. All right,
hopefully I answered that question. I will now go on and see I there's
another one. All right here, So we got another one. We're going
to tackle. This one want to be really quickly easy to tackle. Here's
one that just came in. It says, I know you get this question
a lot, but what is the best NEC book I can start learning with?
And where can I order one? Okay? So my advice here is
you need to first find out what your state is testing on. Okay,
so there is no best anyc is find out what your state is testing on.
If you have the hours to be able to test, then start with
whatever's current. If you still got a year or two, then you may
want to take whatever the state's on right now and go to the next edition,
the next available edition. So for example, if your state's on the
twenty seventeen and you're not going to be testing for two years, then the
book that you want to start learning is going to be the two twenty twenty,
because there's a high probability that your state will be on the twenty twenty
by the time you get to your test date. Now, people ask me,
what if I do that, and they're happy to still be doing the
twenty seventeen when and you're learned in the twenty twenty. What if they're still
in the twenty seventeen when you go to test. How's that going to affect
you? Well, it's going to affect you. But I still think that
the principles are the same, So I still think you won't have any trouble
passing the exam. Some of the code references are going to be different,
but at the end of the day, I think that learning the code is
part of a process of learning how to maneuver the NEC. And there's certain
things that we add stuff to it, but there's the basics that tend to
be the low hanging fruit on exams that just don't change. Right. We
don't write exams for nothing, but code changes, right. It's like I
tell people all the time, I was part of the code development for the
for Texas during the twenty seventeen code. I was not for the twenty twenty
or even the twenty twenty three one. They wouldn't let me anymore because they
knew that I taught people. They were like, that's unfair, and I'm
like, well, dude, anybody that knows me knows I would never give
anybody the answers. I make a work for it. But anyway, that's
their choice. But I did, but I did. We'll tell you that
they don't just throw out all the questions that they've had in the database.
They continue to use them. The only thing that the code people do when
we go look at it when I was a part of it, is that
we look and see if the questions are still relevant, if there's something that
has changed significantly that now makes that question not relevant anymore, and then they'll
toss it and they'll ask us to write a couple new ones each time and
just kind of replenish the pool of questions. That's what we know what we
do. But at the end of the day, we're not kind of they're
not looking to write questions that are all together just code change based type questions.
Right, it's just any C stuff. So if you're really good and
you practice and you learn how to navigate the NEEC. You use our principles
of the three wave method when you're taking the exam, then you're going to
have plenty of time and that's going to allow you to be more than comfortable
on the exam. Whether it's whether you're studying a twenty twenty and the test
ends up being on the twenty seventeen, I think you'll still have no problem
passing because it's all about the mental study, right, and if you're very
much into the code, it's not really going to matter that much. Okay.
Now I can't say the same if you're studying twenty seventeen and then all
of a sudden you're testing on the twenty twenty three. Okay, there's enough
bigger changes structurally moving things around that really could cause you a little bit of
a problem. But you know, there's still a high probability that you'll you'll
pass because you learn the basics and the basics the six foot twelve foot rules.
There's just some additional things that you're going to learn how to look that
up in the code anyway, So prefer you to be study on the cycle
that you're testing on. So I prefer that's the best code to have.
If you're testing soon on the twenty seventeen, then you need to be studying
the twenty seventeen. If you're going to be testing on the twenty twenty,
then that's the best one. Get the twenty twenty. Okay, So I'm
just giving you advice looking forward because I don't know where you are in your
journey. And then your next question is where can you order one? Well,
there's two places that I recommend. One is that you can obviously go
get it from your local supply house, your local electrical supply house so typically
have one and you help support the supply house there. I don't recommend Amazon.
I don't recommend eBay. You might save a few bucks, but you're
liable to get a counterfeit copy and they are all over the place. It's
an easy document to copy and sell, and they'll sell them cheap. If
it looks too cheap, then it probably is. So supply house is one
location. The next one location that I would say would be going to n
f p A directly, so n f p A dot org and ordering it
directly and getting it that way. And if you're an n f p A
member, then you can get a discount on it. There's a third method,
and uh, I you know, I haven't verified these books, but
it seems like Jay over on TikTok uh the Basement King or based uh uh
wackhack. You know he goes by whackack but it's h Jay Grunberg. He
also sells code books and he'll tab him out for you. So again that's
you can check him out as well on uh wackcack code any what is he
code? Whack haack? I'm drawing a blink, but anyway, it's whack
hack Jay Grunberg over on over on TikTok check him out. He sells code
books as well. So those are that's three trusted resources that I would tell
you. You could get him from so supply House straight from n f p
ah. You could also get them from bookstores, So I guess that's a
fourth one. If the bookstore carries them, you can get them there,
or you can get them from Jay over on TikTok. I don't sell codebooks,
so get them from him this couple different ways. Okay, all right,
So hopefully that answers your question there. But the best nec for you
to get and start learning is the one that you're going to be testing on,
and that's the one that I recommend you get. So just check with
your local test center and find out what your state is on right now,
and there will pretty much help you. Oh. Also, we do have
a resource that's available on our website. If you go look at any of
our products, like the Basic or the Enhanced exam Preps or the NEC Learning
Course, there's a link in there to this NFPA site that shows you what
the NEC that's adopted in your state. So that is a resource that we
have on our website. You just got to go to the product that you're
looking for, like twenty twenty NEC Basic or Enhanced, and it'll be in
the description. You'll see the link and that'll take you and you can look
and see whatever state you're on, and it'll tell you what code cycle they're
on right now, that type of thing. So hopefully that answers that question
for you. All right, all right, So let's go on and get
to the last one on this episode. We have one that was submitted and
says, Hey, Paul, quick question is there has anybody learned by now
that there is no quick question with me that I just rattle on forever I
can't seem to answer anything in a quick way. I just I've never been
able to. Okay, I'm long winded. Most people say I just like
to hear myself talk, and that's probably true. I am conceited like that.
Okay, I am sexy. Okay, all right, says is there
a requirement in the code when installing PPC encased in concrete on how far below
the top of the concrete slab it has to be? Reason I ask is
because I know framers or handymen sometimes drill tap cons into the slab to fasten
treated wood, bifold doors, bottom rails, et cetera. I am wondering
if I'm wondering if they could hit the encased raceway. Okay, So raceways
typically, if you're running a raceway under a slab, now, this would
be table three hundred dot five by the way, for those that are listening,
that's depth of cover. When you run it in a raceway under a
building, the cover is zero. Okay, on the table it's zero.
Now. The reason it's zero is because typically the building slab is going to
be at least four inches now depending on the building. Obviously, bigger building,
much more weight, building codes come in. Slab may be thicker,
but typically you've got at least a four inch slab. So usually the raceways,
if they're running under the building, they're gonna be at least under the
four inch slab right in that scenario. So there is nothing that says that
when they're putting tap cons in and all this kind of other stuff, that
they could hit an in case raceway. I mean, I guess they could,
but that would be one some long ass tap cons in. Two,
if it's through wood members or framing members or whatever, then you've also got
the thickness of the of the wood member or whatever the framing member is.
So I mean, it's not gonna typically going to go that far. And
I think the onus has got to be on the framer and it's got to
be on the electrician to know how they're routing their raceways through a building.
But ultimately, I have not seen a big issue of this being a problem
of raceways being penetrated. Could it happen, Absolutely, it could happen,
but I have not seen it. Typically, again, these raceways under a
building will be under the slab or laying in the in the they will lay
them down before the slab is poured, so again, usually have at least
four inches of slab on it for most buildings. So I have never known
this to be a problem at all. So I think I did email this
gentleman and said, if you've encountered any of these situations where raceways and I
don't know how we would know, unless, of course, there's conductors in
it, and then somebody drives a tap con or something long down in there
and then it faults out and then they find out that's what's wrong, and
somebody has to chisel it up, and that's when they find it. I
don't know that you've ever seen that. I certainly haven't seen that, and
so I would say we just uer products of dumb luck that we've never run
into it. But I typically think that they're not long enough to get down
through the slab and also get down and then penetrate through the raceway. I
just don't know that to be the case. But again, again we have
to install raceways and everything where it would not be damaged that type of scenarios.
So again a lot of the onus is going to be on the installer,
and there are plenty of blueprints available that show you how the walls are
going to be done, where they're gonna be, where you're going to rout
your your race ways and all this kind of stuff. And if it's a
big commercial building, maybe they already have a plan that shows in the slab
because usually you've got stub ups and things like that, so you kind of
got to know where things are running. So usually that's kind of planned out.
But I guess it's possible. But no, I'm not aware of anything
in the code other than the normal depth of cover that's in table three hundred
dot five, So I don't know if that can help you or not.
But that's the best I've got for you. Okay, all right, folks,
that's going to be it for two days episode of Let's Ask Paul.
Remember you can always reach out to me by going to Paul Abernethy dot com.
You can submit questions to me. All you got to do is put
your name in and put your email address and then post your question. It's
all sponsored by Wicks. Won't cost you a dime. I either respond to
an email or if select, then on an upcoming podcast much like today.
Also, by the way, make sure you get our free mobile app.
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all right, All right, folks, till next time, Stay safe,
God blessed. We'll catch you on another episode of les as Paul B.