WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:06.799 The Chilly Effect is sponsored by Wallstreet Window dot Com and listeners like you and 2 00:00:06.879 --> 00:00:16.239 now and now rated and Omdia check oh Lly January eleven, twenty twenty four. 3 00:00:16.399 --> 00:00:19.280 Allegedly according to that thing we call a calendar, I'm really glad I'm 4 00:00:19.280 --> 00:00:22.839 not tripping over it and saying twenty twenty three. Tune in next week for 5 00:00:22.920 --> 00:00:27.640 that. Anyway, it is Thursday, and I have with me Mike Swanson 6 00:00:27.800 --> 00:00:32.000 as well as Carmine Savastano. Now Mike Swanson, we well know is the 7 00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:35.679 guy behind Wall Street Window dot com. Be in the no go to Wallstreet 8 00:00:35.719 --> 00:00:39.399 window dot com. It is not just about Wall Street. He has changed 9 00:00:39.479 --> 00:00:44.200 up his emails okay, so you only get like a weekly email now uh, 10 00:00:44.439 --> 00:00:48.320 and other things are changing over at Wallstreet Window dot com. Urge you 11 00:00:48.359 --> 00:00:51.799 to check that out, as well as the writings by Mike Swanson. Two 12 00:00:51.920 --> 00:00:56.920 highly recommended books, although he's written several, including a book about the local 13 00:00:57.000 --> 00:01:00.640 history of Daniel, Virginia. Now I have not read the tirety of that 14 00:01:00.719 --> 00:01:04.760 book, but I highly recommend The War State. I highly recommend the first 15 00:01:04.760 --> 00:01:08.000 in a series of books on the Vietnam War. Why the Vietnam War? 16 00:01:08.560 --> 00:01:12.719 And We talked about that in depth a couple of weeks ago in the propaganda 17 00:01:12.719 --> 00:01:17.159 film. That reminded me of his book title, although it's got nothing to 18 00:01:17.200 --> 00:01:21.879 do with the book title. Anyway, I highly recommend those books. You 19 00:01:21.879 --> 00:01:25.480 see him in the Sidebarochelly dot com the Red Book there with Ike on the 20 00:01:25.480 --> 00:01:30.359 cover giving the farewell address. The war state definitely required reading as far as 21 00:01:30.359 --> 00:01:34.359 I'm concerned, and why the Vietnam War. I'm anxiously awaiting the next volume 22 00:01:34.519 --> 00:01:38.040 in that set, and Mike said he'll be working on it during the course 23 00:01:38.079 --> 00:01:42.079 of this year, so maybe by the time we get back around a JFK 24 00:01:42.319 --> 00:01:47.359 conference time, which I've been invited to go back at MC again. So 25 00:01:47.439 --> 00:01:51.239 I don't know what's gonna happen next year, but maybe Michaell be there, 26 00:01:51.359 --> 00:01:56.079 maybe some of you will come along. We'll see what happens, but hopefully 27 00:01:56.079 --> 00:02:00.159 we'll hear a lot more about the book as the year progresses. Anyway, 28 00:02:00.159 --> 00:02:04.159 Mike's with us and Carmin Savastano. Okay, the author of Two Princes and 29 00:02:04.319 --> 00:02:07.360 a King. Now that book. I was talking about moving around books on 30 00:02:07.400 --> 00:02:10.759 my shelf just yesterday. That was one of the books I was moving around 31 00:02:10.759 --> 00:02:15.240 I actually have a physical copy of that one, and I recommend that book 32 00:02:15.240 --> 00:02:20.879 as well. He also authored a book called Human time Bomb I believe is 33 00:02:20.919 --> 00:02:24.240 the title or the main title of it, and not saying that I don't 34 00:02:24.240 --> 00:02:29.840 have disputes about that book, but anyway, maybe we'll get into that this 35 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:36.960 year with Carmine and discuss the differing views that one might have about human nature. 36 00:02:37.520 --> 00:02:40.719 Although he is absolutely right about certain things in that book, maybe not 37 00:02:40.840 --> 00:02:49.960 everything, but I would everything. Yeah, there you go. But if 38 00:02:50.000 --> 00:02:53.240 you check out the stuff at teapok tp aak dot com, you know what, 39 00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:57.560 You're gonna find a lot of correct information, a lot of interesting stuff, 40 00:02:57.960 --> 00:03:01.840 and a lot about the files that keep getting dumped out there. Oh 41 00:03:01.879 --> 00:03:07.319 that might be a topic of discussion for tonight. Anyway, This is going 42 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:10.319 to be a JFK centric sort of show because well, we're gonna have to 43 00:03:10.360 --> 00:03:15.719 talk about some Cold War stuff here too, and the era in which there 44 00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:21.240 were defectors, et cetera, et cetera. But let's start off with everybody 45 00:03:21.319 --> 00:03:23.879 and see how they're doing. First, Mike, how you doing tonight? 46 00:03:23.919 --> 00:03:28.120 Man? I'll doing great. Great to talk about that y'all tonight. Yeah, 47 00:03:28.280 --> 00:03:30.800 Look, and you've sent me a couple of emails over the past couple 48 00:03:30.840 --> 00:03:36.240 of days and an area of interest. Maybe you want to explain that to 49 00:03:36.280 --> 00:03:39.520 people what it is you're looking at and why, because you're you're starting to 50 00:03:39.560 --> 00:03:46.719 look at some HSCA testimony interesting figure. I was just briefly running over an 51 00:03:46.759 --> 00:03:52.120 audio recording from the piece of testimony that you sent me, a transcript of 52 00:03:53.240 --> 00:03:58.479 which was initially I think written out by Deborah Conway from JFK Lancer. But 53 00:03:59.599 --> 00:04:03.599 it's, you know, a guy that's not often mentioned anywhere or studied by 54 00:04:03.639 --> 00:04:09.199 a lot of people, a guy named Lipsey, who was an important figure, 55 00:04:09.199 --> 00:04:13.759 who was actually president at the autopsy, who was actually present for a 56 00:04:13.800 --> 00:04:18.759 bunch of pivotal events surrounding the assassination of John F. Kennedy. So what 57 00:04:19.560 --> 00:04:25.519 got you interested in Lipsey's testimony in nineteen seventy eight? I think it was 58 00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:28.839 January seventy eight, if my memory serves me. I now don't have it 59 00:04:28.879 --> 00:04:33.240 in front of me. What caught your interest about this? And why is 60 00:04:33.279 --> 00:04:39.720 this guy's testimony interesting to you? If you don't mind, Well, I've 61 00:04:39.720 --> 00:04:46.920 never heard of him before you had, But I'm currently reading a new book 62 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:51.720 that came out just Brand New released a couple of weeks ago, call it 63 00:04:51.920 --> 00:04:59.720 Undercover of Night, written by someone named Sean Fetter f E. T Er. 64 00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:08.560 It's a two volume book and it purports to have solved this assassination a 65 00:05:08.680 --> 00:05:17.759 conspiracy, blames it on the Air Force and Lynnon Johnson. And apparently Fatter 66 00:05:18.480 --> 00:05:25.839 was associated with David Lifton. He was a research assistant of his in the 67 00:05:25.920 --> 00:05:30.480 nineteen eighties and they had a lot of disagreements with him, and now he's 68 00:05:30.519 --> 00:05:40.920 come out with this book and his thesis is that the I'm not saying I 69 00:05:40.959 --> 00:05:48.519 agree with it, but his thesis is that the body was altered inside Air 70 00:05:48.560 --> 00:05:58.319 Force one and he's figured out where and then but not where David Lifting says 71 00:05:58.360 --> 00:06:06.120 it was. He has afer location and he part of his evidence, he 72 00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:14.959 cites this Richard Lipsey's testimony before the HSCA, And that's the last chapter I'd 73 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:19.079 read in the book. So I went to go and look at the testimony 74 00:06:19.120 --> 00:06:28.600 itself, and you actually send to me this YouTube video. It was very 75 00:06:28.959 --> 00:06:34.360 brilliant, actually helpful because enabled me to double check what I was seeing elsewhere. 76 00:06:34.439 --> 00:06:45.959 So what Fatter had a couple things that he interprets Lipsey as saying that 77 00:06:46.079 --> 00:06:55.480 I wasn't able to find myself. But when I read the Lipsy testimony, 78 00:06:56.079 --> 00:07:01.000 and I was reading a transcript that Deborah Conway apparently made, and I emailed 79 00:07:01.040 --> 00:07:09.720 that to you, and then I couldn't find what Fetter was saying in that. 80 00:07:10.399 --> 00:07:15.519 And then I went to the Mary Farrell website and got a staff a 81 00:07:15.639 --> 00:07:25.160 memo describing the interview, which was consistent with the Deborah Conway transcript. And 82 00:07:25.199 --> 00:07:30.680 then you sent me an audio tape that's on YouTube, which is consistent with 83 00:07:30.759 --> 00:07:36.720 the Deborah Conway transcript. So one of the little details that Fetter says is 84 00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:45.560 that this Lipsey, It's really an interesting story. So he was on the 85 00:07:45.560 --> 00:07:51.439 Honor Guard attachment in the DC area, and he had a superior officer who 86 00:07:51.519 --> 00:07:58.560 was a general, and the two of them were with the body once it 87 00:07:58.680 --> 00:08:07.439 arrived in Washington and accompanied the body to the autopsy right and the officer told 88 00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:13.600 him stay with the body, and he did the only times. So he 89 00:08:13.759 --> 00:08:18.360 was in the autopsy room watching it, and once or twice he left the 90 00:08:18.439 --> 00:08:22.160 room, and when he did, a superior officer would take his place. 91 00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:30.439 So they had constant watch over the body and their job became to help organize 92 00:08:30.480 --> 00:08:35.440 the funeral and so forth. But the testamenty was mostly about the autopsy. 93 00:08:35.559 --> 00:08:41.440 Now, the Federal book had one little thing where it said that General Wheeler, 94 00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:46.399 who was the Army chief of Staff at some point called a superior officer, 95 00:08:46.159 --> 00:08:52.240 and I couldn't find that yet in the testimony. And then some other 96 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:58.559 little detail. But anyway, the story itself is really fascinating. So one 97 00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:07.240 little detail that Lipsy says is that when he heard about the assassination, uh, 98 00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:11.919 him and his superior officer were told that the autopsy would be carried out 99 00:09:11.960 --> 00:09:16.399 in Dallas. I mean this was you know, within the first hour. 100 00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:22.480 And then that then they were given orders and told he doesn't say who they 101 00:09:22.519 --> 00:09:26.960 came from, but they were told that the autopsy would take place in Bethesda. 102 00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:31.080 So that's interesting in itself. So you know, at some point it 103 00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:35.480 means it was understood it would be in Dallas, and that was decision was 104 00:09:35.559 --> 00:09:41.639 made, you know, by someone to change that, uh and and take 105 00:09:41.879 --> 00:09:46.080 you know, make the body, take the bide and do the autopsy, 106 00:09:46.159 --> 00:09:48.480 you know, right. And you know, it's interesting. It's interesting because 107 00:09:48.519 --> 00:09:54.240 trying to study what happened with the Joint Services casket team and how that evolved, 108 00:09:54.279 --> 00:09:58.679 because eventually there is a bunch of different military guys from all the services 109 00:10:00.159 --> 00:10:03.960 carrying the casket and you see that later in the funeral footage. But the 110 00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:07.480 evolution to get to that point, there was a bunch of things that went 111 00:10:07.519 --> 00:10:11.639 on to get there. At certain points, some people in the military were 112 00:10:11.639 --> 00:10:16.679 told that the autopsy might occur well to read. At some points they were 113 00:10:16.679 --> 00:10:18.799 told it was going to occur at Bethesda. At other points they were told 114 00:10:18.799 --> 00:10:22.759 it was going to occur in Dallas. And I think it's all a symptom 115 00:10:22.919 --> 00:10:28.200 of confusion. I think they didn't know what was exactly going to happen. 116 00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:33.399 I mean, if this guy's correct, he knew it was happening in Bethesda. 117 00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:37.759 I mean, unless he's wrong. Yeah, well, they would be 118 00:10:37.799 --> 00:10:46.480 the ones that, you know, we're told to him. Yeah, I'm 119 00:10:46.519 --> 00:10:48.519 just saying that. In general, though, there were people that should have 120 00:10:48.559 --> 00:10:52.440 been in the know that over the years when I've studied this, were given 121 00:10:52.519 --> 00:10:58.559 different ideas about what was going to happen until it was finally settled upon that 122 00:10:58.639 --> 00:11:01.440 it was going to occur at Now it is possible that there were people that 123 00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:05.919 never heard anything different except that and you know, as you well know, 124 00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:09.240 with the military, sometimes people are giving heads up about certain things. Get 125 00:11:09.279 --> 00:11:13.039 ready because this is going to happen, and things change along the way, 126 00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:16.440 and that happens with deployments and everything else. This was, you know, 127 00:11:16.519 --> 00:11:22.960 again a real time situation you had, you know, something quite unexpected as 128 00:11:22.039 --> 00:11:26.399 far as you know, say, your joint services casket team was aware was 129 00:11:26.440 --> 00:11:31.720 going to happen. But eventually they would end up with the responsibility. I 130 00:11:31.759 --> 00:11:33.639 mean that was a certainty. Eventually the body would be returned to DC. 131 00:11:35.120 --> 00:11:39.360 There would need to be arrangements made. And of course we've also gone through 132 00:11:39.399 --> 00:11:45.240 the whole thing from not only Jackie's testimony, which you know was was given 133 00:11:45.320 --> 00:11:50.679 later to people privately and stuff like that about the arrangements she made. There 134 00:11:50.759 --> 00:11:54.799 was things given to the media about how she'd you know, designed the funeral, 135 00:11:54.159 --> 00:11:58.360 even getting the catafalct that Lincoln was on, all that kind of stuff. 136 00:11:58.440 --> 00:12:03.919 Right, So all these details have come together over the years, and 137 00:12:03.240 --> 00:12:07.840 some people have reinterpreted them. And look, I'm trying to be generous here 138 00:12:07.879 --> 00:12:11.879 with this guy who was a research assistant to Lift and which has created an 139 00:12:11.000 --> 00:12:16.879 interesting deluge of stuff ever since he died. But even before that, to 140 00:12:16.919 --> 00:12:22.759 be honest with you, the generation before ours, Mike that was involved in 141 00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:26.679 research. You know, when you and I were still in high school. 142 00:12:26.679 --> 00:12:30.399 But these guys might have been in their thirties and they were getting involved in 143 00:12:30.440 --> 00:12:35.960 it. Quite frankly, a lot of them were first moved, you know, 144 00:12:35.200 --> 00:12:39.200 like a lot of people in our generation were moved by JFK. The 145 00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:43.639 film, a lot of people had been moved by things previous to that, 146 00:12:43.799 --> 00:12:48.120 and one of them was Believe It or Not. The release of Best Evidence, 147 00:12:48.320 --> 00:12:52.120 the book itself. You'll hear it cited by people about ten or fifteen 148 00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:58.320 years older than us all the time as the thing that got them thinking, 149 00:12:58.600 --> 00:13:01.759 that got them involved in Maybe there's another answer here, maybe there's something else. 150 00:13:01.840 --> 00:13:05.840 It's not Mark Lane that stood out to them as he would have in 151 00:13:05.840 --> 00:13:09.759 the sixties and seventies. It's the nineteen eighty nineteen eighty three, the first 152 00:13:09.759 --> 00:13:13.639 couple of printings of Best Evidence, which I think was in eighty and eighty 153 00:13:13.639 --> 00:13:18.279 one and eighty three. Don't quote me on that, I could be off 154 00:13:18.320 --> 00:13:20.799 a little bit, but somewhere in that area. That's when that book was 155 00:13:20.919 --> 00:13:28.879 very popular and was published in various forms. Eventually it was published with illustrations. 156 00:13:30.360 --> 00:13:33.200 I got to say, like, I have a bias, you know 157 00:13:33.399 --> 00:13:39.000 about the book. I've never read the book, and I mean i've lettered 158 00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:46.200 Doug Horn stuff. But my dad was a doctor and he was also in 159 00:13:46.279 --> 00:13:52.200 the army and he was a colonel, and he's passed since passed away. 160 00:13:52.440 --> 00:13:58.840 But for two or three years we're both reading this Kenny assassination stuff. And 161 00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:07.440 he he did he did surgery, and he basically told me that he thought 162 00:14:07.879 --> 00:14:16.279 the thesis of the idea of altering by older altering the wounds in order to 163 00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:22.480 fool the tops of doctors. He just thought it was preposterous, wet because 164 00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:28.559 here's the thing between let me that said though, yeah, so so that 165 00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:35.360 made me, you know, he's just like, well the Batopes was botched 166 00:14:35.399 --> 00:14:39.000 and messed up, and they were you know, these guys burned their notes 167 00:14:39.039 --> 00:14:41.679 and they were told to do stuff, and they're going to follow orders and 168 00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:46.120 you don't need to fool you know, exactly all that said. Though, 169 00:14:48.879 --> 00:14:54.799 speaking with another researcher, Loose really retired from his stuff. But Henry Hurt 170 00:14:56.080 --> 00:15:09.080 lives around here and he's ever we had a discussion about it and Basically I 171 00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:15.799 can see why they could have done two autopsies, the first one to see 172 00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:20.360 what really happened, and then the second one that is the one on the 173 00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:22.480 record. You're a one off the record and then one on the record, 174 00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:28.600 which exactly which what I understand I need to read it is sort of what 175 00:15:31.559 --> 00:15:35.799 it's something closer to what doug Horn is arguing. But the idea that they 176 00:15:35.960 --> 00:15:41.039 told the people, that's just well. That's why I want to provide some 177 00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:45.639 context here for this, because from nineteen eighty to eighty eight, when you 178 00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:50.279 have the Nova special that comes out and it is and David Lifting is heavily 179 00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:54.159 involved in it, this is where this idea body alteration becomes popularized. Now 180 00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:58.960 ever after what has happened here is that people have run with his body altered 181 00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:04.759 concept where either it was altered on its way to DC or it was altered 182 00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:11.200 in DC. Doug Horn feels as though the autopsy began before because basically there 183 00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:15.320 were surgery done to create a certain look. The brain was even removed, 184 00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:18.720 et cetera, et cetera. All this stuff. When you run it by, 185 00:16:19.320 --> 00:16:22.679 like you said, you know your dad, you run it by a 186 00:16:22.759 --> 00:16:26.720 doctor, you run it by certain people, they look at you like you're 187 00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:32.000 crazy. But in the eighties, okay, a lot of this information was 188 00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:34.919 not widely available, and it was meant to be an explanation, like how 189 00:16:34.919 --> 00:16:40.240 it is that you could fit together the Dallas doctors telling a different story from 190 00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:45.519 what is laid out in the autopsy, etc. Yeah, Doug Horn told 191 00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:48.440 I mean, I've met him a couple of times. Yeah, he told 192 00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:52.360 me a story that I can't remember as Bosworth Humes of one of the two 193 00:16:53.240 --> 00:17:00.720 he questioned him with the youth part of the ARV, and he questioned him 194 00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:07.079 with a I can't remember the guy's name, but another AARB member. And 195 00:17:07.240 --> 00:17:10.920 when it was over, they took it's either Humes or Boswell. One of 196 00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:17.079 the two autopsy doctors escorted him out of the room. You know, they're 197 00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:21.119 deposing him in giving it cat taking his deposition, took him to an elevator, 198 00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:22.759 and as he got an elevator, he turned around and laughed at him. 199 00:17:23.079 --> 00:17:26.119 He said, okay, boys, you'll figure it out now. Yeah. 200 00:17:26.240 --> 00:17:32.279 Jeremy Gunn would have been the other right right, Yeah, Yeah, 201 00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:36.160 that's kind of mind. That's kind of what I think. They just gotta 202 00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:41.960 They've said so many different contradictory things and changed either the draft report and did 203 00:17:42.119 --> 00:17:47.200 multiple autops reports. It's just a complete total mess. So yeah, laugh, 204 00:17:47.279 --> 00:17:51.920 figure it out. I just wanted a couple things real quick. Yeah, 205 00:17:52.119 --> 00:17:56.400 One to confirm what you guys were saying about that it was ultimately Jackie 206 00:17:56.440 --> 00:18:00.359 and Bobby that made the decision to moved it. Well, Jackie made the 207 00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:06.039 decisions that Bobby supported it because later in one of the articles I put out, 208 00:18:06.359 --> 00:18:10.559 we have the documents of Macone's notes because Bobby called macoone to come meet 209 00:18:10.599 --> 00:18:15.440 with him, right and you know, handle the body and swear in LBJ 210 00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:18.119 and you know, do all the things of state that still needed to be 211 00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:22.079 done even though that was going on. And when you really look at it, 212 00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:23.480 I mean, I don't think Jackie intended it to be the mess it 213 00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:26.839 was. But if they just would have let Earl Rose do his job, 214 00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:33.920 if they just would have conducted the autopsy in Dallas, all this would be 215 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:37.640 much clearer. That's always been my contention is that if they had just allowed 216 00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:41.640 it to be handled as a local homicide, as it was legally at the 217 00:18:41.680 --> 00:18:45.400 time, Yeah, it would have been presidents you guys. Well, so 218 00:18:45.720 --> 00:18:52.119 this lipsey thing. I kind of the interesting thing. He says, they 219 00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:56.440 get him to describe what he saw at the autopsy, you know, the 220 00:18:56.480 --> 00:19:03.839 wounds and what the doctors are doing, and he says that there were three 221 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:15.559 entrance wounds, one in the head and one in the neck that he says 222 00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:22.440 they concluded was the came out of the throat, and then a wound in 223 00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:26.000 the back, not really the back, but the about where the neck in 224 00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:32.640 the back would be. That in the bullet. According to what he says 225 00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:38.000 here, that bullet the atops and doctors believed went into Keny's body and never 226 00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:44.240 came out. And he says they spent about half the aetops he tried to 227 00:19:44.279 --> 00:19:51.599 find it, taking out oregans, looking inside Kennedy to try to find this 228 00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:57.119 bullet, and they were convinced it didn't fall out because there was a an 229 00:19:57.160 --> 00:20:03.440 exit hole for the bullet and it would have gone far enough in that for 230 00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:07.640 to just pop right out. It didn't make any sense, right, So 231 00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:11.640 either way, according to this guy, bullet goes in right, they even 232 00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:18.319 stayed in. He didn't day and he claims that they saw three entrance looms. 233 00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:22.319 Yeah. See the problem with that is that this guy doesn't realize that 234 00:20:22.519 --> 00:20:26.720 the reason for the X ray technicians coming in and out of the room so 235 00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:30.440 often is precisely for this reason. You're not going to go digging through the 236 00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:33.599 body to go find the bullet until you have an idea where it might be, 237 00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:37.839 and the X ray technicians should be able to find it. Okay, 238 00:20:38.279 --> 00:20:41.000 that's the thing. That's why they were doing the X rays and running and 239 00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:45.640 developing the film and coming back with it. That's why even though they yeah, 240 00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:48.880 they did do the most foolish thing in the world by not bringing him 241 00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:51.920 down to the X ray department, decided to bring the portable upstairs. That 242 00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:53.799 was nice and blurry. Yeah, so people could argue for the next thirty 243 00:20:53.880 --> 00:20:57.960 forty years. Yeah, they did the crappiest job possible with it, which 244 00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:03.400 is really funny and you know, but on the other hand, if all 245 00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:07.400 you're doing is looking to just generally locate where the missile is in the body, 246 00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:10.640 that should have been adequate. But they couldn't find it that way because 247 00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:14.640 guess what, it wasn't there. That was the problem. Even if you 248 00:21:14.680 --> 00:21:17.160 have fragments in the skull, Okay, you got fragments in the skull, 249 00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:21.240 but they were not finding a hole or even close to a whole missile anywhere 250 00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:23.480 in the body. Okay, and an X ray should have been able to 251 00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:29.079 pull that up. But there's a lot of stuff that now goes into the 252 00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:33.799 fantastic here when it comes to body alteration, and a lot of this stuff 253 00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:37.319 is inspired. Sorry to say, you know, here we go. Everybody 254 00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:40.039 wants to know where David Lifton's second book is. I think the first one 255 00:21:40.079 --> 00:21:45.440 caused us enough trouble because it created this legend that has ever after been altered. 256 00:21:45.480 --> 00:21:49.400 You know, the alteration on the body alteration has now become an industry 257 00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:53.319 onto itself with these guys where it's like David lifting, you had body alteration, 258 00:21:53.400 --> 00:21:56.720 right, but he just had the wrong guy doing it. Even people 259 00:21:56.720 --> 00:22:00.960 have surmised that the people from the funeral home had done the body alteration, 260 00:22:02.079 --> 00:22:06.640 which they would have in order to prepare it for burial. Okay, they 261 00:22:06.640 --> 00:22:08.279 would have stitched things together, they would have tried to pull his head back 262 00:22:08.279 --> 00:22:12.279 together and make him presentable. That's something that was done, and we have 263 00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:17.759 testimony on that which was taken by certain people. Now, if you want 264 00:22:17.799 --> 00:22:21.759 to tell me that photographs were taken after stuff like that was done, there 265 00:22:21.799 --> 00:22:25.359 you go. You have a difference in why photographs look weird and everything else. 266 00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:30.960 But to try and just make these arguments that somebody surgically altered the body 267 00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:34.440 to do what to fool the audience, you know, to fool the official 268 00:22:34.519 --> 00:22:41.200 record. It it becomes problematic. And when you try and explain this to 269 00:22:41.240 --> 00:22:44.119 somebody who actually, you know, does this sort of stuff, it's crazy 270 00:22:44.200 --> 00:22:48.160 because it becomes you know, it's like, well, if you were to 271 00:22:48.200 --> 00:22:49.920 do that sort of surgery, what are they doing it in the cargo hold 272 00:22:51.079 --> 00:22:55.720 of Air Force one? You know, while Jackie said that's what that's what 273 00:22:55.759 --> 00:22:57.519 this author is saying, yeah, well that's the other thing is they go 274 00:22:57.559 --> 00:23:00.000 into the cargo hold of Air Force one, which believe me, is not 275 00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:03.839 going to be the most comfortable place in the world or the best lit okay, 276 00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:08.039 or have the facility air tight or anything. You're going to go in 277 00:23:08.079 --> 00:23:11.880 there to go do operations, and you've got to sneak the body out of 278 00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:15.039 the casket, you know, out out from in front of where Jackie is. 279 00:23:15.079 --> 00:23:17.680 And then some people say, well that was done while LBJ was being 280 00:23:17.720 --> 00:23:22.960 sworn in, okay, But either way, you're trying to do an alteration 281 00:23:22.039 --> 00:23:27.559 on the fly on an airplane. I I can't see how this makes a 282 00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:32.319 lot of sense, but people will insist that this needed to be done in 283 00:23:32.400 --> 00:23:36.440 order to And it's funny because I can even explain to you why they would 284 00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:37.880 have had to switch to the caskets, which you know, people get into 285 00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:42.000 the caskets, and the confusion with all of that, well, you know, 286 00:23:42.039 --> 00:23:47.039 there's a problem with getting that big, old ornamental casket actually through certain 287 00:23:47.079 --> 00:23:51.400 doors at Bethesda at the time. So they broke it a little bit too. 288 00:23:51.480 --> 00:23:55.079 I believe in some of the testaments they broke So they caskets, I 289 00:23:55.079 --> 00:23:56.880 mean they busted the first one. Yeah, they broke it. And besides 290 00:23:56.920 --> 00:24:00.440 that, they're not burying him in that And later it was disposed of by 291 00:24:00.519 --> 00:24:04.000 Robert F. Kennedy or by orders of Robert F. Kennedy, and we 292 00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:07.480 found out about that years later. Uh. You know, so look, 293 00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:11.920 there is a whole strange trail of evidence here, and I think a lot 294 00:24:11.960 --> 00:24:15.279 of it was born of people not knowing what to do at the exact moment 295 00:24:15.319 --> 00:24:18.720 things happened. But this idea that there was this you know, Okay, 296 00:24:18.799 --> 00:24:25.559 let's recut the body now you know it's well, he this author says that 297 00:24:25.640 --> 00:24:33.920 Roy Kellerman is the one that that did the oper the best round with the 298 00:24:33.920 --> 00:24:37.079 body of the wounds. I want to see Roy Kellerman's degrees to the listener 299 00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:41.920 who is not aware of maybe he didn't have to have a degree the but 300 00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:45.400 of the body. Yeah, but to do it directly, but I mean 301 00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:48.279 to alter it to where he could fool someone. To do it correctly. 302 00:24:48.279 --> 00:24:51.599 To fool a doctor is a little tough, A little tough of a call, 303 00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:53.680 I think, yeah. And the other thing is, uh, you 304 00:24:53.720 --> 00:24:57.279 know, Kellerman is the guy who could barely operate a radio sitting in the 305 00:24:57.279 --> 00:25:00.000 passenger seat of the limo. By the way, in case listeners don't know 306 00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:03.920 who he is. That's the guy who shine on the top of his head 307 00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:07.920 becomes a gun in people's blurry Zippruterer films later on. Okay, Roy Kellerman, 308 00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:14.400 that's that guy. Okay. I look, I don't want to scoff 309 00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:18.400 because strange things happen in a strange world. But you know, I see 310 00:25:18.440 --> 00:25:26.759 people creating scenarios instead of trying to explain the existing evidence for the most part, 311 00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:27.960 and that's how I feel about it. But I'd love to see what 312 00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:33.160 you track down here regarding Lipsey, because Lipsey was somebody that Lifting used to 313 00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:40.519 mention when he did live presentations, and you know, it is part of 314 00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:44.680 Lifton's thesis. Although this guy says, well, I've actually got it right, 315 00:25:44.759 --> 00:25:47.880 and that's another thing that happens here. And Doug Horn has a unique 316 00:25:48.039 --> 00:25:52.000 perspective, but even he goes into look, I agree that there was body 317 00:25:52.039 --> 00:25:55.559 alteration, but I think it happened at a different time, And he talks 318 00:25:55.559 --> 00:26:02.880 about Hume's doing it just previous to the autopsy propers starting right in his five 319 00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:07.559 volume set. I don't know what to make of that stuff except to tell 320 00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:11.319 you that it has evolved over the years, and it's gotten so crazy that 321 00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:15.319 on the anniversary this past year, I ended up on a radio show having 322 00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:21.759 to continuously explain how ludicrous it was that, you know, you know, 323 00:26:22.119 --> 00:26:27.079 Tippitt's body has switched for Kennedy's. You know, like, because I'm explaining, 324 00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:32.559 I'm telling him, Look, you mean to tell me that the previous 325 00:26:32.599 --> 00:26:37.279 surgeries on Kennedy's body are present, because what somebody turned around and put a 326 00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:41.680 backscar on tip it as well? You mean to tell me that this is 327 00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:47.079 Tippitt's body in the JFK photographs. That's why he doesn't look right. You 328 00:26:47.079 --> 00:26:48.359 know, these are the same people that eventually, if you let him go 329 00:26:48.400 --> 00:26:52.799 wild enough, we'll tell you that JFK returned to the Oval office as Jimmy 330 00:26:52.839 --> 00:26:56.640 Carter. I mean, it's just it's too much, man, it's too 331 00:26:56.720 --> 00:27:00.640 much. And look again, I don't want a disparage guy. And he's 332 00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:04.720 really ruthless in his presentation about this book and trying to sell it where it's 333 00:27:04.720 --> 00:27:10.079 like everybody else is pretty much stupid. I have the answers here, and 334 00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:15.559 he does that every couple of pages, right, And I haven't even read 335 00:27:15.559 --> 00:27:18.559 it yet, you know, I'm looking at just the stuff they put out, 336 00:27:18.680 --> 00:27:22.319 you know, to to promote the book, and it's like that. 337 00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:26.839 So, you know, I don't know what to say it very much. 338 00:27:27.759 --> 00:27:30.440 I'm not going to find anything new about the lips of guy. It just 339 00:27:30.559 --> 00:27:37.240 it's new to me, and it's his testimony is interesting to read well, 340 00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:40.480 by by all means, study that, Mike, and I'll tell you what 341 00:27:40.480 --> 00:27:42.839 else is. While you're listening to audio, I'll give you another suggestion if 342 00:27:42.839 --> 00:27:48.880 you want to listen to some interesting audio is Hume's Boswell. And I think 343 00:27:48.920 --> 00:27:51.960 maybe even Fink shows up at one point, but I know Humes and Boswell 344 00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:59.920 definitely show up to testify to the HSCA, and their audio testimony is remarkable 345 00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:06.440 me in how hostile they were to the medical panel questioning them. It's really 346 00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:10.039 funny because by the time you get to the ARRB, they've got a different 347 00:28:10.039 --> 00:28:14.640 attitude. And the way Doug Horn describes them, with the exception of Fink, 348 00:28:14.720 --> 00:28:18.759 thinks very strange affected behaviors or exactly what I dealt with when I got 349 00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:23.640 a hold of him on an international phone call in like nineteen ninety one, 350 00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:29.839 you know, and he was a weird guy, I think, very very 351 00:28:29.920 --> 00:28:36.480 much, easily disturbed if you asked him a question, apparently, So the 352 00:28:36.880 --> 00:28:41.839 descriptions that Horn gives a think in that book are totally believable. But the 353 00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:45.160 weird journey that Humes had been on, I mean, if you take a 354 00:28:45.160 --> 00:28:48.799 look at him going on TV for CBS, right, and what was it 355 00:28:48.920 --> 00:28:52.880 sixty seven when they did those the four nights of TV specials, right, 356 00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:59.160 you got footage of him on there describing what he did and all that, 357 00:28:59.240 --> 00:29:03.200 and he's stepping towing the line he was given instructions. We have memos to 358 00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:06.200 that effect now and all that. But you take a look at that, 359 00:29:06.279 --> 00:29:08.799 you take a look at his behavior with the HSCA, and then his behavior 360 00:29:08.839 --> 00:29:12.920 with the ARRB, and also the fact that you know allegedly walks away and 361 00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:17.400 of course this is off the record, with the elevator conversation and all that. 362 00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:22.160 I find all of it rather believable. Actually, this guy kept changing 363 00:29:22.200 --> 00:29:27.559 what he was saying and was pretty much performing based on the audience he had 364 00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:30.799 in front of him. And when he's in front of the HSCA and guests 365 00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:37.039 seventy eight, he doesn't even care. He's very, very defiant and dismissive 366 00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:41.880 of their questions and gets super angry when they start to ask him things like 367 00:29:41.960 --> 00:29:45.839 about the adrenal glands, which you know, they weren't supposed to talk about 368 00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:48.839 that, right, the Addison's disease and everything. But I mean, you 369 00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:52.039 know, it's it's already fifteen years later. I mean, what good are 370 00:29:52.039 --> 00:29:57.279 you going to do protecting you know, Kennedy's privacy regarding adrenal glands at this 371 00:29:57.440 --> 00:30:02.200 point, you know, in in the seventies, I don't know, and 372 00:30:02.240 --> 00:30:04.799 people still don't know about this testimony. But I assure you. The audio 373 00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:11.640 exists, and there's a lot of weird audio connected to those. Again, 374 00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:14.119 those tapes that I got in somewhere, like I don't know eighty nine or 375 00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:18.039 ninety. I think I got my full set of HSCA tapes. And again 376 00:30:18.039 --> 00:30:22.359 they're not even part of the official record anywhere. They just floated around for 377 00:30:22.400 --> 00:30:25.960 a while. So I found it interesting. I just decided to do a 378 00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:29.559 search and found that on YouTube, and that does sound exactly like the tape 379 00:30:29.599 --> 00:30:32.720 I used to have. I will, however, if you have any questions 380 00:30:32.759 --> 00:30:36.440 about that when you go a little further. I have an MP three somewhere 381 00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:41.319 I think my own MP three transfer from the tape, So I don't know 382 00:30:41.359 --> 00:30:45.240 if my copy will be any different than theirs or whatever, but let me 383 00:30:45.279 --> 00:30:48.519 know if you have any problems there. But their sounds pretty clear and the 384 00:30:48.599 --> 00:30:55.079 quality is pretty pretty decent on that YouTube video. So and they actually went 385 00:30:55.119 --> 00:31:00.599 to Louisiana, I think, where he had a business to visit with him. 386 00:31:00.799 --> 00:31:03.039 I was just going to say, yeah, this is Richard A. 387 00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:06.920 Lipsey is the guy we're talking about, right, So he is at the 388 00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:11.319 time of JFK's death twenty four he's under Whaley the guy who was the local 389 00:31:11.319 --> 00:31:15.880 commander at the autopsy. That's is this the guy who wrote this is the 390 00:31:15.920 --> 00:31:19.440 guy who quoted in the book the author quotes Slipsey's testimony. Oh yeah, 391 00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:25.920 yeah, he quotes Lipsey's testimony. Whaley is his commanding officer. Yeah, 392 00:31:25.960 --> 00:31:30.720 that was because I remember talking about him when in Two Princes and a King, 393 00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:36.119 because everybody I was talking about the mysterious person that was Whaley that was 394 00:31:36.119 --> 00:31:40.440 giving orders. But yeah, Lipsy ended up going on to become a very 395 00:31:40.480 --> 00:31:45.839 wealthy man, like he supporting grids chain. Yeah, he served in the 396 00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:48.359 US Army well, as you know, twenty four years in the army. 397 00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:52.319 But yeah, he went on. He's on the board of Regents for the 398 00:31:52.359 --> 00:31:59.240 state for the State of Louisiana of twenty eighteen. Yeah, I mean he 399 00:31:59.559 --> 00:32:02.720 couldn't in Congressional District. Yeah, they decided to go and visit him in 400 00:32:02.799 --> 00:32:07.519 Louisiana to get his testimony instead of him coming to them in DC. Right, 401 00:32:07.160 --> 00:32:10.680 So that tells you something right there. And in fact, at the 402 00:32:10.759 --> 00:32:15.640 very beginning of the tape, they're interrupted by somebody trying to get through to 403 00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:20.000 him on a call, and he tells them me, I'm not taking calls 404 00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:24.079 right now because I'm recording something and I just I just happened to listen to 405 00:32:24.119 --> 00:32:27.960 that like moments before we went to air, because I just took a listen 406 00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:31.960 to the quality on that YouTube video. But it is interesting. This guy 407 00:32:32.119 --> 00:32:37.000 is an interesting figure. He definitely would have some things in the know there. 408 00:32:37.319 --> 00:32:39.160 But here we go. You have to evaluate what it was he was 409 00:32:39.200 --> 00:32:45.720 witnessing. What is his level of expertise and familiarity with what he's looking at 410 00:32:45.720 --> 00:32:49.880 regarding the autopsy. I mean, anybody could sit there and watch an autopsy 411 00:32:50.319 --> 00:32:53.039 and if they're not familiar with what's going on, they may have no idea 412 00:32:53.119 --> 00:32:57.640 why it is they're cutting into the chest, why it is they're doing this 413 00:32:57.759 --> 00:33:00.519 or that. Like I said, does he even mention the fact that they're 414 00:33:00.519 --> 00:33:04.599 bringing the X ray technicians in and out of the room and running back and 415 00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:08.960 forth and looking at the films, which we know they did, and you 416 00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:12.720 know, and and and stuff like that, because that's the search for the 417 00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:16.240 bullet. It's not them cutting him up looking forward. He he what I 418 00:33:16.279 --> 00:33:22.880 read, he's not really looking at the watching second by second what's going on, 419 00:33:23.880 --> 00:33:30.839 and he's focusing in on you know, I don't think. He says 420 00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:35.400 he didn't notice the X rays and you know, and he was eating hamburgers 421 00:33:35.400 --> 00:33:39.440 too, right for dinner with other people in there. Well, see, 422 00:33:39.480 --> 00:33:43.960 that's why I would take it a lot more seriously. What like say Cybert 423 00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:49.160 and O'Neil had to say, because they were there to observe. Okay, 424 00:33:49.599 --> 00:33:52.359 it wasn't this. It was his job to stay with the body. Yes, 425 00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:54.880 but he wasn't there to take a detailed account of what was going on. 426 00:33:55.519 --> 00:33:59.799 You see what I'm saying. So you got you gotta look at more 427 00:33:59.839 --> 00:34:02.119 than one side of this thing. And I'm not scolding you about this, 428 00:34:02.200 --> 00:34:06.400 Mike. What I'm doing is this is a problem. I mean this, 429 00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:09.400 this is what he said. I'm looking at it right now, Lipsy. 430 00:34:10.559 --> 00:34:16.480 This is the HCA report. Is they're just a memo about the interview. 431 00:34:16.679 --> 00:34:22.039 Right. He cannot recall the doctor's photographed interior jest. He does not recall 432 00:34:22.360 --> 00:34:28.280 when the doctors took the photographs or if they X rayed the lower extremities. 433 00:34:28.519 --> 00:34:35.119 Let Lipsey does recall, he does recall doctors examining X rays. He just 434 00:34:35.159 --> 00:34:37.360 doesn't. He just doesn't remember all these details. Well, but that's the 435 00:34:37.440 --> 00:34:42.679 thing he's not there. It's fourteen years later too, right, it's fifteen 436 00:34:42.760 --> 00:34:45.880 years later, and he's not there to take an account of when they did 437 00:34:45.920 --> 00:34:51.920 it, the order it's being done, what's happening exactly, because his responsibilities 438 00:34:51.920 --> 00:34:54.519 are going to revolve around what he's part of the he's part of the joint 439 00:34:54.519 --> 00:34:58.920 casket team. Basically, what's going to become that, So he's going to 440 00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:01.159 be part of the funeral arrange. It's okay, fine, but that's got 441 00:35:01.159 --> 00:35:05.480 nothing to do with keeping an exact account what's going on with the autopsy. 442 00:35:05.800 --> 00:35:07.719 Like you said, he's eating lunch, he's getting you know well, yeah, 443 00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:10.280 and you can you can even see in the accounts if you look on 444 00:35:10.360 --> 00:35:13.199 because I did while you guys were talking about it, and I just want 445 00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:15.840 to see if I can find out any more information about him if you look 446 00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:19.480 at his accounts of the day, like it changes from year to year in 447 00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:22.039 the newspapers and the description like at one point he's like, well, I'd 448 00:35:22.039 --> 00:35:24.920 never seen a dead body before, and another one he said that, you 449 00:35:24.920 --> 00:35:30.119 know, well, he was comfortable dealing with the casket and everything, and 450 00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:31.679 another one he said, well I might have been the very last person to 451 00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:37.639 touch him before the casket was closed, so you can see as time progresses, 452 00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:42.000 Lipsy's almost you know, like I would suppose many people do. You 453 00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:45.920 know he tries to reform those memories from decades ago. Well, and as 454 00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:50.519 I've said, think it's a different It doesn't get a perfectly exact version each 455 00:35:50.559 --> 00:35:53.760 time. And as I've said on this show numerous times, people's memories are 456 00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:58.800 subject to revision. You know. That's the thing like when when Larry was 457 00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:01.039 doing that speech at Lancer to keep pointing to it, and he said, 458 00:36:01.079 --> 00:36:05.480 you know when you guys are looking for the end all and be all out 459 00:36:05.480 --> 00:36:08.440 of a witness and you're taking their story at ninety years old, you know, 460 00:36:09.079 --> 00:36:13.480 sixty years later and you're saying, well, that's the definitive version. 461 00:36:14.119 --> 00:36:16.719 You know, you're not being honest with yourself or your readers or anybody else, 462 00:36:16.840 --> 00:36:21.800 because there's going to be a lot of things that interceded there. I 463 00:36:21.840 --> 00:36:24.880 mean, the information and the massive changes that took place. You want to 464 00:36:24.920 --> 00:36:28.719 talk about the X rays, I mean, I'll point to Gerald Custer again, 465 00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:35.440 the continuous changes and revision of Gerald Custer's story because he was being inundated 466 00:36:35.480 --> 00:36:37.559 by researchers. He was friendly. He was a nice guy, and he 467 00:36:37.599 --> 00:36:39.880 would talk to a lot of people who are out there, you know, 468 00:36:42.079 --> 00:36:49.000 trying to support their different conspiracies. And thesis is right, thesises thesis is. 469 00:36:49.039 --> 00:36:52.559 I don't know either way, you know what I'm saying, and thank 470 00:36:52.599 --> 00:36:58.639 you, But either way, what the point is that now he's got this 471 00:36:58.760 --> 00:37:01.559 new information and it gets molded into what he's saying. I mean, the 472 00:37:01.599 --> 00:37:08.239 guy literally carried conspiracy books with him to his ARRB testimony. Another thing I 473 00:37:08.280 --> 00:37:16.400 believe from from Doug Horn's report about Cheryl Custer. Yeah that's not good. 474 00:37:17.719 --> 00:37:22.159 When you carrying out the conspiracy books, they can recall what your testimony is. 475 00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:25.000 Yeah, that's not good, you know. And I'm not saying Listen, 476 00:37:25.039 --> 00:37:28.440 I didn't say he did it just to recall of what his testimony. 477 00:37:28.519 --> 00:37:30.119 But what I'm sullying, I mean, but when you take a look at 478 00:37:30.159 --> 00:37:34.440 the wildly ranging statements that he made about this stuff, you know, he 479 00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:37.119 had his own copy, he made a second copy. He hit him under 480 00:37:37.119 --> 00:37:39.920 the sign, but all these different things he said over the years, it's 481 00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:45.159 like, you know, either intentionally or unintentionally, the guy was revising his 482 00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:51.679 testimony as time went on, due to influences from different people that were contaminating 483 00:37:51.719 --> 00:37:54.000 him as a witness. I'm sorry. And then when you got a half 484 00:37:54.039 --> 00:37:59.800 a century of contamination, you got a hell of a lot of revision here 485 00:38:00.239 --> 00:38:02.800 in somebody's memories. So you know, again, if you look back at 486 00:38:02.800 --> 00:38:07.119 what Hume's had to say when he was under control and he was under obligation 487 00:38:07.239 --> 00:38:10.960 to say nothing and even lipsey at the beginning of his interview, it questions 488 00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:15.159 them like, look, I remember I signed a piece of paper saying I 489 00:38:15.239 --> 00:38:17.480 wasn't going to talk about this for a certain amount of time. Are you 490 00:38:17.559 --> 00:38:23.400 guys basically authorized to not have me have a problem over that? You know? 491 00:38:23.440 --> 00:38:29.440 Which sounds like an honest question to ask. Okay, if you signed 492 00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:32.480 a non disclosure agreement and your understanding is you're not supposed to disclose, Yeah, 493 00:38:32.639 --> 00:38:37.400 that's that's the thing about reading it, and then everyone can listen to 494 00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:40.800 it. He comes off as very credible. Yeah, that's the other thing. 495 00:38:40.840 --> 00:38:44.320 And look, I'm gonna give you, guys in the show notes, 496 00:38:44.360 --> 00:38:47.039 I'll give you the link to this YouTube video that's out there, which I 497 00:38:47.079 --> 00:38:52.360 believe is the complete interview. It's an hour and a half long about but 498 00:38:52.199 --> 00:38:57.239 it may be incomplete. It's possible it is. But either way, I'll 499 00:38:57.239 --> 00:38:59.840 give you that, the link to the transcript, few other things, you 500 00:38:59.840 --> 00:39:01.800 know, for people to look at it for themselves if they want to examine 501 00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:06.280 it. But it's a very interesting thing, and you're doing something that a 502 00:39:06.280 --> 00:39:09.079 lot of people don't do, and apparently Rob Reiner does not do at all. 503 00:39:09.679 --> 00:39:14.960 But you know, go and check the source and you know, from 504 00:39:15.039 --> 00:39:17.320 whence the evidence came. Yeah, this would be a good thing to do. 505 00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:21.360 So when somebody mentions testimony, why don't you go look at the testimony 506 00:39:21.360 --> 00:39:23.599 for yourself. You know, go ahead and follow the footnotes and see if 507 00:39:23.599 --> 00:39:30.199 they are footnotes to nowhere sometimes because they are often. Anyway, I just 508 00:39:30.239 --> 00:39:32.480 suggest that no matter what you're reading, whether it's the Warrant Commission or it's 509 00:39:32.519 --> 00:39:37.599 the guy's latest book that's the hottest thing or whatever, the definitive answer like 510 00:39:37.679 --> 00:39:45.599 that absolute atrocity they put on Amazon Prime this past year. Anyway, So 511 00:39:45.760 --> 00:39:47.639 look, not only this, but we do have a cup oh god, 512 00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:53.960 there's this movie, yeah, this documentary that's like we've solved it and they're 513 00:39:54.079 --> 00:40:00.159 they're ultimate you know, spoiler here, guys. JFK's body was swapped for 514 00:40:00.559 --> 00:40:06.360 JD. Tippetts. And not only that, but JFK actually faked his death 515 00:40:06.760 --> 00:40:10.159 according to them, So you know, just saying, uh, it's it's 516 00:40:10.199 --> 00:40:15.199 it's rough and getting rougher out there, Carmine. Uh. Anyway, So 517 00:40:15.320 --> 00:40:20.559 Mike, what else that's like? Yeah, like all the worst ideas of 518 00:40:20.599 --> 00:40:27.840 those eighties books, right, mixed with the Elvis pretty much. Yeah, 519 00:40:27.880 --> 00:40:30.800 like you know, and I'm telling you some of them conclude ultimately that JFK 520 00:40:31.000 --> 00:40:37.480 returns as Jimmy Carter. Not kidding. That is just you know, yeah, 521 00:40:37.599 --> 00:40:39.440 no, I'm sorry. Yeah, one was a peanut farmer. There's 522 00:40:39.440 --> 00:40:44.800 a difference. But they but they will insist they'll look at them. But 523 00:40:44.840 --> 00:40:46.039 you look at the pictures. I'm telling you, it looks like you if 524 00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:50.079 he would have aged, he might have looked at Oh god, it hurts 525 00:40:50.119 --> 00:40:52.960 my head. But anyway, Mike, anything else you want to talk about 526 00:40:52.960 --> 00:40:59.280 regarding this, right? No, So I I'm sorry. I was just 527 00:40:59.320 --> 00:41:02.000 gonna say, yeah, we can jump just we can talk about the the 528 00:41:02.079 --> 00:41:06.440 DEA stuff because I know we only have so much more time, and then 529 00:41:06.440 --> 00:41:09.119 I can just do the defectors. I gave you the sources so they can 530 00:41:09.199 --> 00:41:12.599 check out the articles and yeah, well let's go sure they want to hear 531 00:41:12.599 --> 00:41:15.239 about the DEA stuff more. Anyway, Well let's go straight into it, 532 00:41:15.280 --> 00:41:19.320 because you know it's funny. I didn't get any backlash or anything from the 533 00:41:19.360 --> 00:41:22.800 last time I had you on where we discussed Look, you want to talk 534 00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:28.599 about document destruction, Well, here's a huge rash of document destruction that is 535 00:41:28.960 --> 00:41:32.719 absolutely provable, not speculation. You know, Larry and I talked last night 536 00:41:32.760 --> 00:41:36.599 about how people have gotten to the point of where, you know, well, 537 00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:39.639 if you don't find any of the evidence reliable or credible, what are 538 00:41:39.639 --> 00:41:43.480 you working with? Oh, your own idea is very good. That makes 539 00:41:43.480 --> 00:41:46.920 it a lot easier, doesn't it. But you know, and I mentioned 540 00:41:46.920 --> 00:41:51.440 this about the destruction of documents, where people say, well, you know, 541 00:41:51.480 --> 00:41:55.920 they already destroyed anything of importance. On the one hand, I can 542 00:41:57.039 --> 00:42:00.320 kind of go with that, but it doesn't disqualify what's left, you see, 543 00:42:00.679 --> 00:42:06.159 It doesn't remove the validity from what is left in the files, what 544 00:42:06.320 --> 00:42:09.719 is being released, what is still withheld, and is you know, slowly 545 00:42:10.440 --> 00:42:15.480 being leaked out there little by little. It doesn't mean that it's totally useless. 546 00:42:15.519 --> 00:42:19.760 We constantly find interesting new information, but are you going to find the 547 00:42:19.800 --> 00:42:22.119 document that says, you know, hey, look here's the solution. No, 548 00:42:22.519 --> 00:42:27.840 I get that, but but what government would do that even if they 549 00:42:27.880 --> 00:42:32.719 had it? You know. Anyway, but we talked last time about the 550 00:42:32.920 --> 00:42:36.679 U I believe it was the last time you were on with me, Carmine 551 00:42:36.719 --> 00:42:39.800 about this, and by the way, people have been definitely giving me feedback 552 00:42:39.800 --> 00:42:45.360 that we need to continue the myths and uh and get them back out there 553 00:42:45.400 --> 00:42:50.280 and redo that, even which uh, which I wouldn't feel right about doing 554 00:42:50.280 --> 00:42:53.000 without you, Carmine, So hopefully you're up for doing that. This year, 555 00:42:54.840 --> 00:42:59.760 we'll have to discuss aff air and maybe grab a couple of the new 556 00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:05.039 ones. We're gonna have to strategy. We're gonna have to strategize. Yeah, 557 00:43:05.079 --> 00:43:08.760 we're gonna have to strategize a bit because there is so much nonsense out 558 00:43:08.760 --> 00:43:13.400 there at this point, you know. I mean, look, we we 559 00:43:13.519 --> 00:43:17.840 obviously have we did good work as far as reducing the prior ones that we 560 00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:24.760 covered a bunch of, but unfortunately, you know, there's always more and 561 00:43:24.800 --> 00:43:31.360 it's not like Judie Baker's gone away just saying so the hydra extent, yeah, 562 00:43:31.400 --> 00:43:34.880 we we did. We did sort of prune the hydra. Yeah, 563 00:43:34.880 --> 00:43:39.679 that's a good way to look at it, pruning the hydra anyway. But 564 00:43:39.719 --> 00:43:45.039 what's interesting here is that I really expected more people to get weird about Well, 565 00:43:45.079 --> 00:43:47.719 you guys are saying they destroyed all their documentary. Yeah they did, 566 00:43:49.960 --> 00:43:53.039 and I don't see anybody making a big deal about that except you in your 567 00:43:53.159 --> 00:43:58.280 articles. But there's more to this story, so, uh, it's not 568 00:43:58.400 --> 00:44:01.480 just about the d I A. And again the references Carmine's articles is stuff 569 00:44:01.480 --> 00:44:06.199 at t P a a k dot com. I will definitely have it in 570 00:44:06.199 --> 00:44:08.719 the show notes. And let's see if we can get you through this fairly 571 00:44:08.800 --> 00:44:13.239 quickly, so we can get done with this in a little over an hour 572 00:44:13.880 --> 00:44:17.440 altogether. Sorry, we spent a lot of time on Lipsey there, but 573 00:44:17.440 --> 00:44:21.639 but it is interesting and something that I think if you know, you really 574 00:44:22.280 --> 00:44:24.960 care about the you know the facts and the evidence you the listener, I 575 00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:30.199 would say, please, by all means follow up on it. But but 576 00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:36.440 there's even more regarding document destruction and maybe some other organizations, some other alphabet 577 00:44:36.519 --> 00:44:42.440 portions of the military soup that that that could be involved in document destruction, 578 00:44:42.559 --> 00:44:45.840 Is that right, Carmine, Yeah, yeah, And I'm interested just to 579 00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:50.320 get also you or the mic you know, of course the audience's feedback, 580 00:44:50.559 --> 00:44:54.880 just to see that because I was I I was surprised that, you know, 581 00:44:55.239 --> 00:45:00.599 I found the one document where they just came out and that, Wow, 582 00:45:00.679 --> 00:45:04.039 we destroyed everything. You can refer to our NSA secrecy agreement. You 583 00:45:04.079 --> 00:45:07.119 can't tell anybody. Oh well, so I thought that, you know, 584 00:45:07.239 --> 00:45:09.760 that was going to be I was like, wow, I mean because that 585 00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:14.960 and we talked about the timeline. You know, I also did my Lancer 586 00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:16.280 speech on it where I talked about you know, I tried to get into 587 00:45:16.320 --> 00:45:20.519 more of the nuts and bolts of it, but still there's still an area 588 00:45:20.559 --> 00:45:23.159 of play for some of that. And so I'm going to be putting out 589 00:45:23.440 --> 00:45:28.719 another article later this month and you can see it on the Wall Street window 590 00:45:28.719 --> 00:45:31.480 and you can see it at my website, and I'm going to put out 591 00:45:31.480 --> 00:45:37.000 some of the new documents and information that I found. But essentially I thought 592 00:45:37.039 --> 00:45:44.639 that, you know, with Theda, that and like you and I specified, 593 00:45:44.719 --> 00:45:47.360 Chuck, we didn't say it was the largest. It was the thus 594 00:45:47.639 --> 00:45:55.480 far largest, right, because never underestimate that there could be a larger operation 595 00:45:55.639 --> 00:46:00.960 at work to destroy something. But it is contained only to the one agency. 596 00:46:00.039 --> 00:46:04.320 Right now, there's that, But also keep in mind this, Okay, 597 00:46:04.400 --> 00:46:09.519 the FBI generates so much or at that time generated so much paper that 598 00:46:09.679 --> 00:46:15.079 it is possible that the FBI could have destroyed more documents than the DA had 599 00:46:15.880 --> 00:46:20.199 and still yeah, have destroyed all of their archive because of the immensity. 600 00:46:20.719 --> 00:46:22.719 You know, I remember somebody making jokes about, you know, if you 601 00:46:22.719 --> 00:46:24.760 had to go to the bathroom, you had to fill out a three zero 602 00:46:24.760 --> 00:46:30.960 two report. So there was constant paperwork being generated by the FBI. There 603 00:46:30.960 --> 00:46:34.920 could have been tons of stuff destroyed by the FBI, which could be even 604 00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:38.320 larger here. I'm not saying it's true, but one of the things that 605 00:46:38.360 --> 00:46:43.880 distinguishes this is not only is the agency wide as far as the DA depends, 606 00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:47.719 you know, determining at what size wouldn't occurred, but also it's about 607 00:46:47.920 --> 00:46:53.800 one subject, right that I think makes it singularly different. As far as 608 00:46:54.000 --> 00:46:58.320 the FBI, oh yeah, they and the CIA just just you know, 609 00:46:58.400 --> 00:47:04.239 I mean, space consideration destroyed documents all the time, as far as no 610 00:47:04.280 --> 00:47:08.360 longer operational stuff for the forties, old cryptonim materials that no longer were in 611 00:47:08.519 --> 00:47:13.639 use, stuff like that, and often they might destroy stuff that's no longer 612 00:47:13.719 --> 00:47:15.920 operational, because what are you going to do with intelligence that was gathered in 613 00:47:15.960 --> 00:47:20.039 the nineteen forties, the bits of the nineteen seventies, Why is this stuff 614 00:47:20.079 --> 00:47:22.920 even useful? You have a logical argument for we just need to open up 615 00:47:22.920 --> 00:47:28.719 some space here, you know, it's an juitization. They really had no 616 00:47:28.800 --> 00:47:31.199 other way except just get more space to house more viles, right, so 617 00:47:31.559 --> 00:47:37.320 you know at that time it makes some sense. But again to just turn 618 00:47:37.360 --> 00:47:40.880 around and pick one subject, not a time period, right exactly, not 619 00:47:42.599 --> 00:47:47.079 huge, you know, because just one case in all the cases you might 620 00:47:47.119 --> 00:47:52.320 have been involved in, right, So that's that's the distinction there. But 621 00:47:52.679 --> 00:47:54.920 go ahead and tell us about what it is that you learned, you know, 622 00:47:55.039 --> 00:47:59.159 in addition to what it was we discussed last time, if you don't 623 00:47:59.159 --> 00:48:07.440 mind, sure, So, so we prior to discussed that the da which 624 00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:12.719 that organization, the Defense Intelligence Agency, which gathers all the military intelligence in 625 00:48:12.719 --> 00:48:15.039 one place, is housed under the ages of the Department of Defense for those 626 00:48:15.079 --> 00:48:20.159 that don't know, So the d IA is essentially a subgroup of the Department 627 00:48:20.199 --> 00:48:24.719 of Defense to which all the military intelligence groups are subgroups to the DA. 628 00:48:25.599 --> 00:48:30.239 So all that information flows upward to the d D the Joint chiefs, you 629 00:48:30.280 --> 00:48:37.239 know, those that sit at the top of everything. So the DA had, 630 00:48:37.840 --> 00:48:43.320 you know, stated in that document that we that I offered last show 631 00:48:44.039 --> 00:48:46.480 that it had destroyed every file it posed a by the JFK case. So 632 00:48:47.639 --> 00:48:53.719 I sent a letter to the DA's Office of the Inspector General to learn if 633 00:48:53.719 --> 00:48:59.559 their position on the Kennedy files being utterly destroyed by the DA staff remains the 634 00:48:59.559 --> 00:49:05.480 officials Okay, Unsurprisingly, my registered mail receipt has yet to be returned. 635 00:49:06.360 --> 00:49:09.239 Okay, I don't know if I'll ever get a seventure on that one. 636 00:49:09.400 --> 00:49:14.000 When when did you send it? By the way, huh when did you 637 00:49:14.039 --> 00:49:17.039 send that? I sent that about a month ago, month and a half. 638 00:49:17.320 --> 00:49:22.199 Okay, fair enough, go ahead, Yeah, yeah, so I 639 00:49:22.199 --> 00:49:25.239 figure I'll give me a few months. But I just think it's funny that 640 00:49:25.280 --> 00:49:30.079 they won't even sign for it, like they received it, right, but 641 00:49:30.519 --> 00:49:40.679 you know whatever, so uh so I did. I have remained undeterred as 642 00:49:40.719 --> 00:49:45.639 far as trying to seek more details about you know, the DA's destruction of 643 00:49:45.679 --> 00:49:51.519 the evidence and how and when the Department of Defense undertook these attacks on the 644 00:49:51.559 --> 00:49:54.079 legal record, and like I said, I've been able to find a few 645 00:49:54.079 --> 00:49:58.440 extra things that I'm going to put in the article. But what I want 646 00:49:58.519 --> 00:50:04.960 to tell people is is that I've discovered that the Department of Defense was also 647 00:50:05.280 --> 00:50:12.199 destroying files regarding the JFK case. And one of the documents I found specifically 648 00:50:13.159 --> 00:50:21.079 dates or gives us the date of destruction for Lee Harvey Oswald's files in nineteen 649 00:50:21.280 --> 00:50:27.920 seventy three. So trying to get rid of the Bay of Pigs is now 650 00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:32.519 no longer an answer to why they were destroying the files. In fact, 651 00:50:32.880 --> 00:50:39.079 we're in the seventies now right the later end. I mean, they are 652 00:50:39.239 --> 00:50:44.559 huge at this point. They are over one thousand members. They have gone 653 00:50:44.599 --> 00:50:52.760 through five, maybe six directors, and I wonder what the purpose of destroying 654 00:50:52.840 --> 00:50:58.119 Lee Harvey Oswald's files would be, Well, it's I think I think there's 655 00:50:58.119 --> 00:51:01.280 a lot of possibilities. Seventy three I think is important that year specifically, 656 00:51:01.960 --> 00:51:07.320 because you know, we discussed the range the amount of documents generated. So 657 00:51:07.320 --> 00:51:10.440 now we're in the tens of thousands file likely that they're going to have to 658 00:51:10.440 --> 00:51:16.079 just try to get rid of this, and that purge is now going on 659 00:51:16.119 --> 00:51:21.639 in the d D at large. So, and we've already heard. One 660 00:51:21.639 --> 00:51:23.039 of the things I'm going to talk about is because I found an interview with 661 00:51:23.079 --> 00:51:30.199 Blakey where he's complaining about Army intelligence. So, Army Intelligence has destroyed files 662 00:51:30.199 --> 00:51:32.559 in the JFK case, the DA has destroyed files in the JFK case, 663 00:51:32.800 --> 00:51:37.599 and now the d D is desjoying some of its TROVA files on certain parts 664 00:51:37.599 --> 00:51:40.079 of the JFK case. Well, and to just be specific, look, 665 00:51:40.199 --> 00:51:45.599 the Army intelligence files should not be on Lee Harvey Oswald in case somebody thinks, 666 00:51:45.599 --> 00:51:50.000 well, they're just destroying all the Oswald files because Army Intelligence shouldn't have 667 00:51:50.039 --> 00:51:53.880 stuff on Oswald that should be under o NI, which eventually gets fed to 668 00:51:53.960 --> 00:52:00.519 d I A. So what are we talking about here? What Army intelligence 669 00:52:00.599 --> 00:52:04.599 files need to be gotten rid of? Right? Yeah? Okay? Well 670 00:52:04.639 --> 00:52:07.000 and the DA if it destroyed all of its files, and it certainly destroyed 671 00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:10.079 army files as well, Oh yeah sure sure. But what I'm saying, 672 00:52:10.239 --> 00:52:15.320 what are we talking about here? What could they have even been? You 673 00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:21.320 know? Is my question? Yeah? Well, and then what I think 674 00:52:21.360 --> 00:52:24.760 is interesting about seventy three is that, Okay, so this is and this 675 00:52:24.840 --> 00:52:27.800 is the latest you know what there might be a later one, And if 676 00:52:27.800 --> 00:52:30.280 I can get one in seventy four, then I think it's a lot more 677 00:52:30.320 --> 00:52:34.760 easy to explain because that's when Family Jewels happens. That's when Seymour Hirsch hammers 678 00:52:34.800 --> 00:52:37.960 the CIA and the press and they have a reason to want to liquidate everything 679 00:52:38.119 --> 00:52:43.639 so that anything in that that's compromising can't be found, right, because seventy 680 00:52:43.639 --> 00:52:46.159 three is the year before. So but during seventy three, okay, we've 681 00:52:46.159 --> 00:52:51.119 already had the Warrant Commission, We've had the Garrison case. That's left several 682 00:52:51.199 --> 00:52:57.039 questions in the public mind. You know, in seventy three January Nixon fires 683 00:52:57.039 --> 00:53:01.320 Helms as head of the CIA, ends the Vieta War, and the Watergate 684 00:53:01.360 --> 00:53:07.199 burglars start getting unmasked and charged. Right, so investigations are coming. I 685 00:53:07.199 --> 00:53:13.079 think anybody in military intelligence might be able to guess at that point that they're 686 00:53:13.119 --> 00:53:15.840 going to want to start asking questions and might want to start seeing files, 687 00:53:15.480 --> 00:53:21.760 right, right, And this ties to a lot of Look, this does 688 00:53:21.800 --> 00:53:23.400 tie to a lot of the Watergate burglars. Now, the end of the 689 00:53:23.480 --> 00:53:28.840 Vietnam War doesn't happen really until seventy six, but yeah, just the declaration 690 00:53:28.920 --> 00:53:32.599 of the cessation of hostilities rights. That's what's starting to happen. So this 691 00:53:32.719 --> 00:53:37.519 might open up, you know, new questions regarding stuff like that. It 692 00:53:37.559 --> 00:53:39.079 might be time to liquidate a whole bunch of stuff. Oh and while we're 693 00:53:39.119 --> 00:53:44.639 at it, why don't we get rid of the DAFK related stuff, especially 694 00:53:44.639 --> 00:53:49.559 because this is when Congress begins to start asking questions about a lot of different 695 00:53:49.599 --> 00:53:55.480 operations that might have these intermingled agencies between you know, the the intelligence and 696 00:53:55.519 --> 00:54:00.840 the military. Okay, and I mean not the military intelligence, but your 697 00:54:00.880 --> 00:54:05.000 CIA and your military that involved both of them when it came to the Cuban 698 00:54:05.079 --> 00:54:08.960 operations and stuff like that, which was now getting a good look through stuff 699 00:54:08.960 --> 00:54:12.760 that was coming out in the press and questions that were now being asked. 700 00:54:13.000 --> 00:54:16.280 Committees were being assembled, so you know, one might even want to look 701 00:54:16.280 --> 00:54:21.920 at the congressional record to get an idea about what was going on there as 702 00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:23.760 to what might be coming next. Okay, here's the heads up on those 703 00:54:23.760 --> 00:54:28.760 investigations, because those would be the people that would be making requests that they 704 00:54:28.760 --> 00:54:34.559 couldn't really just turn away real easy, right, So you know, here 705 00:54:34.599 --> 00:54:37.840 we go. I mean, that's that's an explanation. And yeah, and 706 00:54:37.360 --> 00:54:45.679 again just note that's ten years after the assassination seventy three. So and again 707 00:54:45.880 --> 00:54:49.920 why you know, like why Army Intelligence, Like that's the strangest thing to 708 00:54:49.960 --> 00:54:52.679 me. I mean, Office of Naval Intelligence. You could say they might 709 00:54:52.679 --> 00:54:57.920 have had files on John F. Kennedy himself. They might have had files 710 00:54:57.960 --> 00:55:01.639 on Harvey oswald Oz being a marine, he's under the onus of the Navy, 711 00:55:01.840 --> 00:55:07.119 so you know things like this. Okay, uh, Connolly was secretary 712 00:55:07.119 --> 00:55:12.480 in the Navy. I believe at a certain point anyway, please continue, 713 00:55:12.519 --> 00:55:15.199 though, I mean, what else do we discover here? Well, I 714 00:55:15.239 --> 00:55:17.400 was just going to say, it's what you said made me think too. 715 00:55:17.440 --> 00:55:22.760 It's the lower level destruction can in most instances be explained away. But it's 716 00:55:22.800 --> 00:55:29.199 as it flows up and they start destroying entire the entirety of files where it 717 00:55:29.199 --> 00:55:32.360 doesn't make any sense anymore, because you know, you hear often in the 718 00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:37.519 record, even with some of the HSCA when they're discussing it with the military 719 00:55:37.599 --> 00:55:40.119 and the CIA and other agencies that you know, well, we had to 720 00:55:40.119 --> 00:55:44.079 get rid of this for you know, like we talked about filing records. 721 00:55:44.119 --> 00:55:45.159 We had to get rid of this because redundancy, we had to get rid 722 00:55:45.159 --> 00:55:50.119 of this. Well, why are you purging specific files at the bottom going 723 00:55:50.159 --> 00:55:53.440 all the way up so almost like you're trying to thoroughly dis I mean, 724 00:55:53.480 --> 00:55:58.159 so there is no record, but I mean with the redundancy that occurred with 725 00:55:58.199 --> 00:56:00.320 all the branches, there has to be right, you know, no matter 726 00:56:00.320 --> 00:56:06.360 how many times. I wonder, here's an interesting question. How many times 727 00:56:06.440 --> 00:56:09.079 was the same document destroyed by how many people? Yeah, there's a good 728 00:56:09.159 --> 00:56:13.719 question, Mike. You have any thoughts on this? And the car mine 729 00:56:13.760 --> 00:56:15.199 is describing and explaining here, I mean, you got any thoughts on it? 730 00:56:20.639 --> 00:56:23.639 I'm it's I mean, I'm just founded this lot for the first time, 731 00:56:23.840 --> 00:56:29.079 so it's a lot to think about. Well, I'll tell you what, 732 00:56:29.199 --> 00:56:31.000 if you don't mind, I'd like to publish this article. If you're 733 00:56:31.000 --> 00:56:34.400 going to publish it at Wall Street Window, I'd like to publish it on 734 00:56:34.440 --> 00:56:38.400 my website as well. Oh sure, and put it out there because we're 735 00:56:38.480 --> 00:56:43.239 running articles through the front page. Now you know they're not on a regular 736 00:56:43.280 --> 00:56:46.920 basis, but this would be of interest to me. Yeah, I mean, 737 00:56:46.920 --> 00:56:52.239 it sounds like a huge trying to purge everything. When it sounds like 738 00:56:52.280 --> 00:56:55.119 everything they can. Yeah. Yeah. The thing that really struck me was 739 00:56:55.119 --> 00:57:00.519 that they mentioned specifically Oswald in the DD file where it's like and they gave 740 00:57:00.559 --> 00:57:04.559 the specific date. They're like blah blah blah, nineteen seventy three, the 741 00:57:04.679 --> 00:57:07.719 Isle of Lee. And what's funny is they refer to the Julian calendar, 742 00:57:07.760 --> 00:57:10.480 the Roman calendar like Julian date blah blah blah. The file of the Arbusold 743 00:57:10.599 --> 00:57:17.000 was destroyed by the DoD. Wow. So yeah, that's that's pretty remarkable. 744 00:57:17.079 --> 00:57:23.039 I don't I can't think of when I've actually seen that before. Yeah, 745 00:57:23.079 --> 00:57:25.519 normally they don't just come out and say it. Yeah, it'll be 746 00:57:25.599 --> 00:57:30.119 more, but yeah, no, this specifically was for what I found interesting 747 00:57:30.199 --> 00:57:32.599 too about a lot of that, because I've gotten pretty much through all the 748 00:57:32.639 --> 00:57:38.400 new ones. There's a couple of the twenty eighteen's a couple one hundred left 749 00:57:39.400 --> 00:57:42.360 to where I've at least scanned and got through it, I think is the 750 00:57:42.400 --> 00:57:45.920 majority of the most important stuff, right. And they're so like you were 751 00:57:45.920 --> 00:57:50.360 saying earlier about how they make mistakes as far as classification, and they make 752 00:57:50.400 --> 00:57:54.400 mistakes about filing. There's so many documents from more modern times that got mixed 753 00:57:54.480 --> 00:57:59.440 into the JFK documents because the word Jeffk's in them, Like you can find 754 00:57:59.480 --> 00:58:05.480 like ninety these CIA documents that reveal stuff they probably don't want out there because 755 00:58:05.519 --> 00:58:08.440 the word JFK was in one of the slug lines, so they just threw 756 00:58:08.480 --> 00:58:14.119 it into the JFK collections, Right. That is that is a weird thing 757 00:58:14.159 --> 00:58:16.679 that comes up where you know, I've seen stuff like that before where it's 758 00:58:16.719 --> 00:58:20.079 like, why in the hell is this even in here? You know, 759 00:58:20.360 --> 00:58:23.920 this is about something that you know happened in Omaha, Nebraska, you know 760 00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:29.039 in nineteen eighty five. Why in the hell is this in here? Well 761 00:58:29.519 --> 00:58:32.599 you see why. It's because yeah, indeed there was somebody that was had 762 00:58:32.960 --> 00:58:37.840 an interest in the JFK assassination or whatever. So there's like, uh, 763 00:58:37.039 --> 00:58:42.960 JFK airport was when I thought to JFK airport comes up. Yeah, that's 764 00:58:43.000 --> 00:58:46.679 another one, the JFK airport and stuff like this, and it's like, 765 00:58:46.760 --> 00:58:50.280 wow, why is this even in here? It doesn't well, it just 766 00:58:50.320 --> 00:58:55.000 had JFK on it so got thrown in and yeah it's weird. It's very 767 00:58:55.039 --> 00:58:59.679 weird. So and that's another thing here is that normally you would see something 768 00:58:59.760 --> 00:59:02.119 like that. Okay, they destroy it because it's from a certain era, 769 00:59:02.639 --> 00:59:07.519 they destroy it because it's redundant, you know, like I was saying before, 770 00:59:07.159 --> 00:59:12.480 or it's already been preserved elsewhere. It leads to some other odd questions 771 00:59:12.480 --> 00:59:16.239 because if you remember, there was you know, when they were collecting the 772 00:59:16.239 --> 00:59:21.800 military records for the Assassination Records Review Board. They had asked for files on 773 00:59:21.840 --> 00:59:27.960 Oswald and then the liaison for I think it was the Office of Naval Intelligence 774 00:59:29.039 --> 00:59:31.159 went tod to go do a search and got stopped in the middle of their 775 00:59:31.199 --> 00:59:37.880 search and that was shut down at one point, you know, like and 776 00:59:37.920 --> 00:59:40.920 they were disciplined. It was a female officer and I can't remember her name 777 00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:45.679 on the top of my head, but I mean they actually like punished her 778 00:59:45.800 --> 00:59:49.280 for doing it, even though she was cooperating with, you know, with 779 00:59:49.679 --> 00:59:54.000 the committee, which was really odd. And it makes you wonder like, 780 00:59:54.079 --> 00:59:58.519 well, if there's nothing, if they purged all this stuff, right, 781 00:59:59.760 --> 01:00:01.840 like, what is it that they would need to punish or a stopper for, 782 01:00:01.960 --> 01:00:06.559 then there's nothing to be gotten. Why bother with you know, just 783 01:00:06.639 --> 01:00:10.760 letter search there's nothing there? Well, yeah, good, I think, 784 01:00:10.840 --> 01:00:15.480 Yeah, that's precisely it. Maybe there is something there, maybe, you 785 01:00:15.480 --> 01:00:20.519 know, and that's not what I think it's. We've discussed this before that 786 01:00:20.519 --> 01:00:28.480 our society unfortunately suffers from an overabundance of classification, right that people are so 787 01:00:28.840 --> 01:00:32.719 afraid that any little thing might implicate somebody that might be related to them or 788 01:00:32.760 --> 01:00:37.400 hurt their power base in some way, they'd rather just classify the whole damn 789 01:00:37.440 --> 01:00:43.119 thing that allow the public access to any part of it. And that could 790 01:00:43.159 --> 01:00:46.679 have been exactly what that is. You know, it's a preventative. It's 791 01:00:46.800 --> 01:00:51.840 meant to put a chill into the public so that you won't ask questions. 792 01:00:52.239 --> 01:00:54.039 Well, and the other thing is that when you do get this stuff revealed, 793 01:00:54.159 --> 01:00:57.159 you know, like I told you about, I mean, I got 794 01:00:57.159 --> 01:00:59.480 a hold of certain stuff, and I got hold of three copies of the 795 01:00:59.519 --> 01:01:04.440 same student newspaper article that somebody had shared right as they were part of a 796 01:01:04.480 --> 01:01:08.559 committee or whatever, and it ends up in the classified documents and they finally 797 01:01:08.679 --> 01:01:12.519 let it out. You go get it. It's a photocopy of a freaking 798 01:01:12.559 --> 01:01:16.679 cutout newspaper article. It's something that was available in the public domain, you 799 01:01:16.719 --> 01:01:22.360 know, and you're like, why is this here? Yeah, and so 800 01:01:22.760 --> 01:01:27.199 it's crazy. But the thing is, and that leads people to go, 801 01:01:27.280 --> 01:01:30.280 well, there's nothing but garbage in there. Well, there is some garbage 802 01:01:30.320 --> 01:01:31.480 in there. I mean, you know, to be blunt about it, 803 01:01:31.480 --> 01:01:37.239 there's some stuff that is absolutely useless and was classified for no real good reason, 804 01:01:37.920 --> 01:01:40.519 not like somebody thought about it carefully and said, well, this could 805 01:01:40.519 --> 01:01:45.000 be problematic for us because it would reveal a source, it would actually reveal 806 01:01:45.039 --> 01:01:50.760 a method, it would actually reveal something of importance. Not even for that. 807 01:01:50.920 --> 01:01:54.960 I think there was an overclassification that occurred for a long time that that 808 01:01:55.079 --> 01:01:58.840 now leads to, you know, you got to dig through more stuff, 809 01:01:58.880 --> 01:02:01.360 You got to get through more filler and nonsense to be able to get at 810 01:02:01.440 --> 01:02:06.519 some real jewels in the pile, you know. I mean, it's not 811 01:02:06.920 --> 01:02:12.039 and I one wonders if that's intentional or if that's you know a little bit 812 01:02:12.039 --> 01:02:15.960 of column AINE, a little bit of column B where it's partially intentionally done. 813 01:02:15.599 --> 01:02:22.159 And on the other hand, it's just a symptom of the over of 814 01:02:22.199 --> 01:02:28.559 the over exuberance of somebody, you know, the over zealous desire to classify 815 01:02:28.599 --> 01:02:31.559 things. You know, just classify all of it, classify all their notes, 816 01:02:31.599 --> 01:02:37.599 classify all of the you know, communications classify anything that's remotely connected to 817 01:02:37.599 --> 01:02:40.480 this or that, and you end up with a bunch of stuff that is 818 01:02:40.519 --> 01:02:46.119 effectively useless, did not need to be classified, and yet we still got. 819 01:02:46.679 --> 01:02:52.880 Example is the DA response when they responded to the okay, yeah, 820 01:02:52.920 --> 01:02:57.960 when they said, we destroyed everything, but you can't tell anybody because our 821 01:02:58.000 --> 01:03:02.039 response is classified, right, which is the funniest It's a perfect example, 822 01:03:02.079 --> 01:03:06.239 and there gives you the idea why it wasn't a major headline, right, 823 01:03:06.679 --> 01:03:09.039 because if you think about it, during the time of the HSCA, this 824 01:03:09.079 --> 01:03:14.760 should have been a headline. The DEIA destroyed all their files, but if 825 01:03:14.760 --> 01:03:19.079 they're not allowed to tell anybody about it, right, It's not that the 826 01:03:19.280 --> 01:03:23.559 HSCA was being nefarious, it's just that they were not able to reveal that 827 01:03:23.599 --> 01:03:28.559 to the public at the time. And who wants to look foolish because it 828 01:03:28.599 --> 01:03:31.880 would have taken your investigation maybe in a different direction that it went. And 829 01:03:32.039 --> 01:03:36.679 you basically cut the like that from under your investigation because you had made a 830 01:03:36.760 --> 01:03:40.239 prior arrangement with the military and intelligence agencies. Well, and that's the other 831 01:03:40.320 --> 01:03:43.639 problem is if you turned around and you said, well, I don't care 832 01:03:43.719 --> 01:03:45.639 that you guys don't want us to reveal this. We'll reveal it anyway. 833 01:03:45.960 --> 01:03:49.719 You know, what you're going to get is a serious lack of cooperation on 834 01:03:49.800 --> 01:03:54.159 future inquiries, which is another problem here. I mean if you take a 835 01:03:54.280 --> 01:03:59.000 listen to you know, say like Eddie Lopez talking about being sent to Mexico 836 01:03:59.119 --> 01:04:04.199 City, right and actually going to try and investigate that circumstance, you can 837 01:04:04.239 --> 01:04:08.960 see there was all kinds of considerations there about like, you can't really piss 838 01:04:09.000 --> 01:04:13.360 off the CIA guys too much because if you do, they won't cooperate with 839 01:04:13.400 --> 01:04:16.679 you later at all. Breckenridge, to name the one that they were always 840 01:04:16.719 --> 01:04:20.599 worried about, that was always a thorn in their side, was Scott Breckenridge, 841 01:04:20.960 --> 01:04:26.599 the Deputy Inspector General. There you go, so, yeah, yeah, 842 01:04:26.599 --> 01:04:28.199 I'm sorry, go ahead, no, no, no, go go 843 01:04:28.199 --> 01:04:30.119 go right ahead, breck and I just say, yeah, I actually wrote 844 01:04:30.119 --> 01:04:34.280 an article way back called the ps I Loathe You because it was just breck 845 01:04:34.320 --> 01:04:38.039 and Ridge and then going back and forth with each other about how much they 846 01:04:38.039 --> 01:04:41.840 couldn't stand each other. Right, So when do you think you'll have this 847 01:04:42.199 --> 01:04:45.199 article out for people to read? And by the way, just email me 848 01:04:45.719 --> 01:04:49.039 the text and everything you want included in it, you know, the hyperlinks 849 01:04:49.039 --> 01:04:53.440 and whatever, so I can make sure to publish it at least, as 850 01:04:53.559 --> 01:04:56.280 you know, at least fairly close to what Mike publishes and it has. 851 01:04:57.280 --> 01:05:00.320 Yeah. Yeah, I'll send Mike everything and then i'll send you the stuff 852 01:05:00.320 --> 01:05:02.320 after when when he was ready to get it up. But it'll be by 853 01:05:02.360 --> 01:05:04.480 the end of the month, no later. It should be in a week 854 01:05:04.519 --> 01:05:08.159 or two. Actually, the only thing I'll probably add is a couple of 855 01:05:08.639 --> 01:05:12.039 Like I might add some other photos or whatever to it, just to you 856 01:05:12.039 --> 01:05:15.119 know, dress it up a little different so it looks different online. But 857 01:05:15.280 --> 01:05:17.360 other than that, I'll publish it the same way that he does, because 858 01:05:17.559 --> 01:05:20.440 I think this is important for people to see, and especially the way you 859 01:05:20.559 --> 01:05:25.000 lay stuff out. I appreciate it because you're going to show us step by 860 01:05:25.000 --> 01:05:28.119 step how this went. Now, you had another thing you wanted to do 861 01:05:28.199 --> 01:05:30.400 on the moles, but I think you and I could talk about that in 862 01:05:30.440 --> 01:05:34.119 a future episode. Matter of fact, I don't think Mike will be with 863 01:05:34.159 --> 01:05:36.719 me next week. If you want to join me next week at this time, 864 01:05:38.599 --> 01:05:41.039 we could we could go over the moles and a couple other things. 865 01:05:41.119 --> 01:05:44.679 Maybe I can convince you to start doing some of the groundwork with me, 866 01:05:44.719 --> 01:05:48.119 and maybe we'll we'll rejoin the Myths episodes once again we haven't done for that 867 01:05:48.559 --> 01:05:53.320 year. I'm I won't be able to do next week, but I can 868 01:05:53.440 --> 01:05:56.760 do the week after. So if Mike might be back, if you want, 869 01:05:56.840 --> 01:05:59.199 we could do it then and then I and then by then I would 870 01:05:59.199 --> 01:06:01.599 think if the article is not up, we might be able to talk more 871 01:06:01.599 --> 01:06:04.679 about it, or it might be up by then. Well, if it 872 01:06:04.800 --> 01:06:08.000 is up, I would like to revisit it. If not, we of 873 01:06:08.000 --> 01:06:10.440 course we can always go into another direction. Mike, what do you think 874 01:06:10.719 --> 01:06:13.559 in two weeks we bring Carmine back in the three of us? Get? 875 01:06:13.679 --> 01:06:16.159 Yeah, sure that I can play it. Let's do that, because it's 876 01:06:16.199 --> 01:06:19.480 already about twenty one after the hour, and I kind of only want to 877 01:06:19.480 --> 01:06:24.079 take you guys to about quarter after anyway, based on the time we started. 878 01:06:24.559 --> 01:06:27.519 But this is really interesting, and I urge you guys again. I'm 879 01:06:27.519 --> 01:06:32.159 gonna give you links to not only Carmine's work on this topic, but but 880 01:06:32.159 --> 01:06:35.639 but also to links to the stuff that Mike was talking about earlier. Their 881 01:06:35.639 --> 01:06:42.159 websites obviously Wall Street Window dot com especially, but also te pok t p 882 01:06:42.400 --> 01:06:45.840 a a K t p a a k dot com. I'm stumbling over it. 883 01:06:45.840 --> 01:06:49.320 It's been a while, Carmine. Sorry, but tea pok dot com 884 01:06:49.840 --> 01:06:55.119 and you can check out a whole lot of informative stuff. Carmine has stuff 885 01:06:55.159 --> 01:07:00.000 on his site that nobody else is really published. So and it's not just 886 01:07:00.400 --> 01:07:03.760 a bunch of redundancy out there. But I heard you, guys, bet 887 01:07:03.760 --> 01:07:08.000 in the note, go to Wall Street Window dot com and also go to 888 01:07:08.000 --> 01:07:13.119 teapok dot com and check out both Mike Swanson and Carmine Satistano's work, each 889 01:07:13.119 --> 01:07:16.920 of them respectively authors Two Princes and the King, the book that I highly 890 01:07:16.920 --> 01:07:23.760 recommend by Carmine Satistano, and The War State and Why the Vietnam War, 891 01:07:24.239 --> 01:07:27.320 the books that I highly recommend by Mike Swanson. But he's also written a 892 01:07:27.360 --> 01:07:32.360 few others, and looking forward to the second volume of the one upcoming this 893 01:07:32.480 --> 01:07:35.480 year, at least I know he'll be working on it this year. Maybe 894 01:07:35.519 --> 01:07:40.400 he'll get it out by next year, the second part of the series on 895 01:07:40.800 --> 01:07:45.360 the Vietnam conflict. So with that in mind, remember this, I'm merely 896 01:07:45.400 --> 01:08:24.439 I check wall Stream window dot dot, Gold Steward the stock market, Wall 897 01:08:24.600 --> 01:08:30.119 Street, Window dot dot. Perhaps you're invested deeply, Perhaps you're not in 898 01:08:30.239 --> 01:08:34.239 deep enough. Maybe you're thinking about getting started Wall Street, Windows dot com, 899 01:08:34.359 --> 01:08:39.319 do dot com. Michael Swanson, the brilliant author of the War State, 900 01:08:39.840 --> 01:08:43.920 understood these trends professionally for many years, and now he gives you the 901 01:08:43.920 --> 01:08:51.439 benefit of his knowledge. Wall streetdo dot dot Go there, now go there, 902 01:08:51.600 --> 01:08:58.920 now go there. Now revelation through conversation the truth about the day of 903 01:08:58.960 --> 01:09:00.319 the assassination. Right, well, what do you want to know? Dy 904 01:09:00.359 --> 01:09:05.279 Baker's wild claim Oswald girlfriends he knew, Ruby and Barry answer weapons. Really, 905 01:09:05.439 --> 01:09:08.960 I imagine I could claim I have four wheels. It doesn't make me 906 01:09:09.000 --> 01:09:13.239 a wagon, But okay, I'm building and trying to prevent the murder of 907 01:09:13.279 --> 01:09:15.159 John Kennedy. Come on, now, has a real effort on the DFA 908 01:09:15.239 --> 01:09:21.840 assasination. Go to Amazon dot com enter Judith Baker in her own words. 909 01:09:21.920 --> 01:09:27.439 You'll get the results for a digital copy of a book where Walt Brown utilizes 910 01:09:27.560 --> 01:09:31.479 her own words and the known evidence in the case to get at well a 911 01:09:31.560 --> 01:09:36.039 different perspective. Let's say you can get Judith Ary Baker in her own words 912 01:09:36.159 --> 01:09:41.560 from the author himself, signed if you request it by contacting doctor Brown at 913 01:09:41.600 --> 01:09:45.479 k I A S JFK at aol dot com. It's a fun book and 914 01:09:45.520 --> 01:09:51.199 it actually dissects the many, many fantastic claims. Judith very Baker in her 915 01:09:51.279 --> 01:09:57.840 own words, thank you for all the great information dot Com Radio Network. 916 01:09:58.079 --> 01:10:01.479 Do you like history? Real history that you were never taught in schools? 917 01:10:01.720 --> 01:10:09.000 Why the Vietnam War Nuclear Bombs in nation Building in Southeast Asia by author Mike 918 01:10:09.079 --> 01:10:14.920 Swanson, with new documentation never seen before that will open your eyes to events 919 01:10:14.920 --> 01:10:19.359 that led up to this. Why the Vietnam War Nuclear Bombs in nation Building 920 01:10:19.439 --> 01:10:26.720 in Southeast Asia nineteen forty five through nineteen sixty one. Get your copy today 921 01:10:26.920 --> 01:10:31.560 at Amazon dot com. Why the Vietnam War by author Mike Swanson. In 922 01:10:31.640 --> 01:10:39.920 Denial the Secret Wars with Air Strikes and Tanks by Larry Hancock. Secret wars 923 01:10:39.960 --> 01:10:45.119 became a staple of US covert operations and are still happening today. Larry Hancock's 924 01:10:45.119 --> 01:10:48.520 book In Denial rips the cover off many of them, using new files. 925 01:10:48.520 --> 01:10:53.279 It exposes things about the Bay of Pigs that no one has ever written about 926 01:10:53.319 --> 01:10:57.479 before. It shows why it really failed and why the United States did not 927 01:10:57.680 --> 01:11:01.560 earn from it. It also shows why odes today or doing the secret operations 928 01:11:01.600 --> 01:11:05.920 with more success. This is the book that puts what some want to deny 929 01:11:06.279 --> 01:11:13.680 into the light. In Denial Secret Wars with air strikes and tanks Larry Hancock. 930 01:11:14.840 --> 01:11:18.199 For more information, go to larryheyphen Handcock dot com. Pick up your 931 01:11:18.239 --> 01:11:24.880 copy of In Denial at Amazon dot com in digital or physical flow Chilly dot 932 01:11:24.920 --> 01:11:29.880 com. The War State by Michael Swanson explains the great national transformation that took 933 01:11:29.920 --> 01:11:33.399 place and put the Kennedy presidency in the context of the times and revealed never 934 01:11:33.439 --> 01:11:39.279 before published information about the Cuban missile crisis. President Kennedy would not have been 935 01:11:39.319 --> 01:11:44.199 assassinated if he had been president two hundred years ago. His assassination took place 936 01:11:44.239 --> 01:11:47.079 in the context of the Cold War and the rise of the national security state. 937 01:11:47.159 --> 01:11:51.119 Before World War II, the United States was a continental republic. In 938 01:11:51.159 --> 01:11:56.560 the decade that followed, it became an imperial superpower. Generals such as Curtis 939 01:11:56.640 --> 01:12:00.640 LeMay not only wanted to invade Cuba, but knew that there were short range 940 01:12:00.640 --> 01:12:03.800 missiles on the island. Aren't with nuclear warheads that they could not destroy because 941 01:12:03.800 --> 01:12:08.640 they were on mobile launchers. Their invasion could have led to a Third World 942 01:12:08.680 --> 01:12:12.840 War, and they wanted to go to war anyway. The War State by 943 01:12:12.960 --> 01:12:16.359 Michael Swanson reveals why, and we'll show you what President Kennedy was up against. 944 01:12:16.600 --> 01:13:20.159 For more information, the War State dot com dot com radio watch songs 945 01:13:20.439 --> 01:13:51.159 see Renny Wi Your Stir Strong and Shi can save Rock if we don't not 946 01:13:53.279 --> 01:16:01.960 no sid So stud Also something somethingtures, such as something co