WEBVTT

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Well Whiskey coma why don't from power
Line blog dot com and produced by Ricochet

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dot Com. This is the Three
Whiskey Happy Hour with your bartenders Steve Hayward,

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John You and power Lines International Woman
of Mystery Lucretia gotta giving. Let

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that whiskey flow where you're being in
love down in Loon. Well, Hi,

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everybody, it's the three Whiskey Happy
Hour, coming to you a day

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earlier than usual because, oh my
goodness, a lot is going on.

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There is the uh continuing Crystal dooct
on campus going on. That'll be our

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second subject. Our first subject,
though, is Thursday morning, and we're

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recording here Thursday night for a Friday
posting was the extended argument at the Supreme

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Court on whether former President Donald Trump
has a broad claim of immunity for his

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access president. And we'll get into
the details of this, but first of

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all, Hi, John, Hi
Lucretia. How are you guys doing this

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week? Great? How are you? Steve? Well? I am good,

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although John, I have to say
I'm a little chagrined. I don't

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tell you about this, Lucretia,
did you hear the new I think the

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biggest story of the week is none
of this stuff. It's that Robert F.

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Kennedy Junior has qualified for the Michigan
ballot in November, running on the

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ballot line of the Natural Law Party. There's such a thing a Natural Law

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Party, there is. I have
heard of them before. You what's not

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just you and the Cretia sitting in
a room talking to each other. Well,

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that's aways been my job. The
Natural Law Party you ought to be

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a ticket of, you know,
Hadley Arcis and Marianne Glendon or maybe even

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Jenie Rogers Brown. I don't know, they've been around for a while.

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Actually, this is not a you
know, I guess they've one of those

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grandfather ballot lines in Michigan. They
decided what it's all about? The nutters

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really, and so it's kind of
appropriate. It's too bad. I'm kind

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of grumpy that someone has taking this
scrap, but I figure it's a point

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to you to talk to us with
John, that's my yeah. I mean,

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do you guys like run around the
backyard trying to find apples and turn

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it into your property? Like what
goes on back there? Whoa John?

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You know perfectly well? What goes
on there? Remember on the backyard fence

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is a sign that says, if
you can read this, you're in range.

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So you can think about what for
yourself, what we do in the

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backyard at the Deno compound, by
the way, compound compound. Yes,

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so sometime, John, we're gonna
have to have a big throat down on

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this, because of course what you
just stated was lockey in modern natural law,

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which has its merits. But Lucretia
and I are devotees of classical natural

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law, and you know you like
Bentham. You've actually said this to us,

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right, Oh I am I'll just
mention this now in passing. I

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am boning up to have the throw
down with you on that. I've been

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reading this book that's ninety years old. That's it's it's one of the classics.

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It's it's the growth of philosophic radicalism. Ellie Hallavy, French author.

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It's a really great book. Trivia
point, John, did you know that

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Bentham had been a student in the
eighteenth century of Blackstone? It makes total

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sense. Well, yes, he
rebelled against him, right exactly. No,

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But anyway, this is a terrific
book. I have to say,

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I've not read it before, but
we're okay. We'll put that off for

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some other time, and Lucretia will
find my reading ninety year old books by

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some French author ridiculous, but maybe
not. I don't know, Lucretia.

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Are you tired? I don't care
about Jerry me Bentham or some stupid French

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guy. Couldn't care less tonight,
I'll be honest with you. I actually

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listened a little bit on the way
back today because I always change at the

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moment Hannity comes on, because I
can't stand Hannity. But I got a

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phone call and then then I came
off and Mark's Mark Levin was on Hannity,

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yelling as he always is, of
course, you know, yelling about

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the about Trump and the trial today
and that the Supreme Court should and I

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don't want to get ahead by just
the whole idea that the Supreme Court should

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grow a pair. And I won't
even say, I'll wait till we get

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to John's analysis of everything that happened
today. But they needed to grow a

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pair and do the right thing.
And I'll tell you what the right thing

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is later. But that was interesting. Well, I'm not interested in Bentham.

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Did Mark Levin plug that I'm going
to be on a show this Sunday.

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No, and I only listened for
like a minute and a half.

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I'm sorry, John, if I'd
have known that, and I might actually

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watch it or listen to it,
I guess since you're going to be on

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it, does he yell at you? No, we both yell at the

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same target, I think. So
my point about the immunity case before we

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talk about the oral arguments today,
is that we shouldn't forget and the court

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is a little bit of a distraction
to this. We shouldn't forget. The

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real bad actor here is not one
justice or the other justice. It's Joe

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Biden. The reason we're going through
all this is because the Biden administration is

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prosecuting a former president. That's,
you know, the really that's the really

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significant change, not the fact that
the court might rule one way or the

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other. The court only has to
rule an immunity because we're prosecuting a president

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for the first time, a former
president for the first time. So that's

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what I said on So that's what
I said on the Liven shows. So

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we got to make sure we keep
the bigger picture and focus and not try

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to It's almost as if the Biden
administration is winning. When we start focusing

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so much on the court, we
forget what triggered the whole thing in the

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first place. And just so you
know, Levin's point was, but that

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the court, the court ought to
be recognizing that that that this nonsense about

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what's official and unofficial duties and all
of this, uh what did he call

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it? They're not Solomon, They
shouldn't be making those kinds of decisions.

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They shouldn't even make which is actually, if I recall what you said too

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a while back, but but they
ought to realize that this is lawfair and

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not just law fair, you know, sort of uh kind of DA's after

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some political opponents at some in some
county level or something. But this is

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a the president of the United States
using the entire legal apparat prosecutorial apparatus of

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the federal government against his political opponent. And that is, you know,

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that's earthshakingly awful. I don't know
how else to say it. I mean,

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and I don't I know that that's
not the question before the court,

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but couldn't it be at the back
of their mind here? Oh well,

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well, let's turn to it directly
and see, John, I think you

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are dodging the main point. What
you're happy to get to. I know,

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because you know you said in text
messages to us that you think Trump

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will or should I'm not sure if
you say will or should lose a broad

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immunity claim. What the creature just
raised that capable lot in the oral argument

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today, which I listened to this
morning and found it absolutely riveting, and

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Steve really quickly. The one really
thing that stuck with me from the oral

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arguments I was able to hear is
I was reminded again that Sonya Sotomayor is

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the dumbest woman on the court.
Well, yes, okay, that sod

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a whole argument. Yeah, well
let's see. So I think, well,

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first of all, John, let's
do it this way. I haven't

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got this organized in the particular order. But one of things that came up,

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and especially from Justice Gorsach, who
I thought was spectacular today, in

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the argument, he said, look, I don't want to focus strictly on

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the circumstances of the particular case in
front of us, because we are going

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to be writing a precedent for the
ages. He kept coming back to that

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point because of course, the liberal
justices and the draven I think Dreven was

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the lawyer. I kept thinking of
Frank Drevin from the Naked Gun movies.

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But he kept coming back to you
know, Trump and what you know,

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what what precipitated this case? And
I mean that's fine, except that you

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know the oh, the fact that
they kept referring to the Marbury case and

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what was argued at the Constitutional Convention. We're getting down some fundamentals here.

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But the point is is that they
said, look, so that I want

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to first of all, start at
the abstract level. Uh, And I

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think I we I think Lucretian I
may have a different view from you.

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And the irony here is my view
is informed partly by one of your teachers

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who apparently didn't learn enough from which
is Harvey mans. Oh. Oh,

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the insults a fly already they do. But here's the point is that I

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think, you know, I've been
conflicted about this, but I think I'm

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increasingly of the view that Trump deserves
to win this case. My read after

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listening to the oral arguments is that
Trump did really well, shockingly well,

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and that the entire debate was on
his terms. So you could say,

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there's text and history, Well,
let's look at the constitutional text, let's

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look at the history of the founding. Most of the oral argument was about

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good policy, right, what would
be the incentives on the president future presidents

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if you could prosecute them? What
would be the results if presidents could actually

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you know, like this was Kagan's
hypothetical, what if they could undertake a

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coup? Right? And you had
to say they're immune from criminal prosecution for

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you know, launching a coup.
So when you start and I think I

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said last time, if the argument
was about is about what would be the

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best public policy, I think Trump
should win that it really would be good

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if the Constitution prevented presidents from prosecuting
their predecessors or prosecuting their main competitors in

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the oncoming election. But you know, my point was good policy is not

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really how this court in the past
and the recent past. I said,

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you should interpret the Constitution. They've
tried to say, we only look at

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the text in history and we put
aside questions of good policy. So I

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think the fact that the whole or
argument was really about what makes sense in

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terms of designing and respecting and effective
executive power. Actually, I mean,

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like I think that's like that seats
to Trump half the battle. So let

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me ask you a real quick question, John, And notice what I said

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to you in the chat. We'll
come back to that. The so I

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heard arguments, and I do think
it was from so my oar, but

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that there's no I'm told that even
Clarence Thomas brought this up, that there's

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no mention of immunity for the president
in the same way that there's a mention

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for of immunity for Congress, et
cetera, et cetera. But that to

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me is totally beside the point.
There's impeachment. There's impeachment in the constitution.

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Right, Well, I came up
a lot. Yeah, okay,

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I told you I wasn't able to
listen to the whole thing. I just,

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of course I hear the highlights that
whatever you know news show wants to

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to to highlight. But it seems
to me that that that argument should be

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deposit dispositive and that no, we
don't have criminal of course, the president

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has immunity from criminal prosecution because if
he commits crimes. We know now that

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you can actually even impeach a president
after he's left office, right, thanks

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to our stupid Democrat and Cheney and
those people. So why on earth was

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it even an issue about official versus
unofficial acts being criminal not criminal? Cake

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just a point on that, because
it's actually more abstract, not astrict.

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But I think it's more political why
that came up, because if there's I

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think this is because I think this
is concocted by Chief Justice Roberts and Brett

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Kavanaugh. They're the ones who were
raising it, uh, you know,

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several times. And so suppose you're
you're them. You want to keep the

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court out of making a decision that
anyone would say, oh, the court

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decided the election by knocking Trump out. Yeah, but you don't really want

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to say Trump gets full immunity either, And why not because they don't want

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to be seen as helping Trump that
much, Like that would be seen as

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such a pro Trump, Like I'm
just explained the way they think. I'm

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it's very hard for Lucretia to understand. Wants to explain to her the way

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moderates think, and like smoke start
coming out of her ears. It was

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like, you know, like her
eyes came out like the way they do,

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like when Tom and Jerry and Jerry
gets hit by like the anvil,

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you know, So this is this
is how they think. So how could

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you do that? So the way
you would want to do it was it

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would be you'd want to delay the
case so that it couldn't the trial couldn't

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start and finish before the election,
because if Trump wins, then he can

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order this prosecution ended as the head
law enforcement officers. So I was listening

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to this, I thought this was
quite clever. I think we might have

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talked about it a little bit last
time. I'm not sure. But the

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way you could do it is you
could say if Trump has immunity or he

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doesn't have immunity, We don't.
No one thinks the immunity will extend to

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private acts. If there's immunity,
it would only cover official acts. So

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before we decide whether immunity exists,
let's see if any of these acts were

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public. We're official, So we're
going to send it back down to the

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lower courts and they have to figure
out whether anything in the indictment about January

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sixth involves official acts versus private acts. Because if they're all private acts,

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then we don't have to make a
decision on immunity at all. This will

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take so long when it goes back
down to the lower court, that they

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will achieve their objective of delaying the
trial pass the election. So in a

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way, Trump will win based on
the oral argament, I think Trump's going

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to win his tactical objective, which
is to have no conviction before November.

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Okay, So no matter what happens, I get all that, and I

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get that your politics pure politics,
not yeah, the worst kind where you're

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pretending to be above it all.
You're pretending to be above it all,

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and you care more about the reputation
of the court again than you do about

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the constitution or the country in this
case. Because so the one other argument

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I bring to the table is that
while this is going on, while the

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silly trial in New York with Alvin
Bragg and Trump, you know, Trump

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yond in court today, Trump's dot
in front of him. You know all

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of that stupid stuff, What are
we talking about. We're not talking about

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the fact that we have a cognitive, cognitively impaired president who becomes more and

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more cognitively impaired every day, or
on the brink of World War three,

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We've got wars going on all over
the world, and the person the president

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that you wouldn't allow to check you
out. Check you wouldn't allow him to

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be a checkout person at circle K
is the only thing he's really seems to

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be qualified for us to be president
of the United States, Right, And

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so what the media doesn't want to
talk about, which I don't think that

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they could avoid if they didn't have
the Trump news day after day, is

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what's really happening with the Biden administration. And so what are we talking about?

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We're talking about this nonsense. I
mean, I don't know that it

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ultimately doesn't in some ways end up
being a positive thing for Trump to a

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great degree. We know that the
more and the more people hear about uh

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this law fair against Trump, the
more he gets people on his side.

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We hear that all the time,
and it's especially true of young black men,

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young Hispanic men, other people who
feel imposed upon by the man.

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Shall we say, but I don't
know it's still wrong? Uh yeah,

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all right, let's get let's okay. I want to check with the merits

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of the case though in the particular
issue, because I think John's still dodging

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and bobbing. Okay, you have
a good answer straightforward on the merits.

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Why I think this is I think
that on the text and original understanding,

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it's hard to find immunity. I
think the immunity that we have that we

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talked about earlier, the one for
civil cases from civil cases, which is

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from a case evolving Nixon Nixon versus
Fitzgerald. If you read it, it

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doesn't do it doesn't ask any of
these questions we've just been talking about impeachment.

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The speech and debate lause, it's
purely what we call functional. It's

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just the court saying we think this
is a good idea because it would help

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the executive function better. There's very
little public interests served by allowing these lawsuits,

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and there's a lot of harm to
the executive branch. Trump's briefs are

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basically take that logic and just apply
it to criminal cases too. Don't pay

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attention to the textan history too much. And that's really the grounds on which

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the court argue. But I think
that text and history actually leans strongly against

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there being presidential immunity. Not the
point about the debate speech and debate clause,

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which is immunity for congressmen, implying
there isn't one for the president.

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It's because of the impeachment clause,
because the impeachment clause, right, it

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says he can be a peach for
high crimes and misdemeanor, treason, bribery,

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other high crimes and misdemeanors, and
then it says and you know you're

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subject to indictment and jury after Now
Trump's reading of that text is you could

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only be tried if you're removed from
office because you're convicted of impeachment. I

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think that's a misreading because and there
you have to look at the history because

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in the history the founders, particularly
in the Federal's papers, what they were

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stressing was that impeachment was not criminal. Impeachment is just removal from office.

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In England, impeachment was criminal.
You could be executed if you were impeached

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and if you were successfully impeached.
So Hamilton other people saying, what this

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clause means and what impeachment is is
just removal from office. It is not

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at all criminal. And in fact
they were saying, if you're removed from

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office, that doesn't have any double
jeopardy, that doesn't have any estopable effects,

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it doesn't have any effect on the
criminal trial. The criminal trial is

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different and independent that right says basically
that you can criminally prosecute former executive branch

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officials. I think it's okay,
it's a stretch, just as for a

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moment, it's a stretch to say
that impeachment is not criminal. I get

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exactly what you're saying. That it
is a political judgment, absolutely no doubt

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about it. But it's impeachment for
what's what's the standard? High crimes and

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misdemeanors? Right, high crimes and
misdemeanors, which is criminal? Though,

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how is a high crime or a
misdemeanor not necessarily criminal? Well, I

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will, you're talking about it,
I'm talking about I'm talking about Madison from

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Federals fifty five, where he says
the purpose of impeachment is an inquest into

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the conduct of public men. He
makes it pretty clear there. I think

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that this is a political matter.
It can be criminal, of course,

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but I mean some of the look, a lot of the charges against Andrew

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Johnson in eighteen sixty eight were not
criminal. They were political and rightly so,

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even though well, okay, look
John, I mean I think I'll

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come to the deeper reasons why.
But let's work with a couple of parts

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along the way here, I thought
the two stars of the whole argument today

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for two and a half hours were
Alito and Gorsuch, especially Alito. Uh.

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Alito said, look what happens,
Uh, well, we're worried about

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and Gorsuch said this too, We're
worried about opening the door to people prosecuting

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presidents after they left office, as
Trump has said. And Alito said,

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look, we've had examples in past
history of corrupt justice departments, and he

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mentioned Hallmer, under Woodrow Wilson and
a couple of other examples. He says,

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this has really happened, so this
is a real problem. He was

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clearly implying the current Justice department.
He didn't want to say that, but

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that was clearly the point that brings
bought in mind. But then the other

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thing he raised, and a few
minutes ago you said, well, the

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argument is is you know what's good
policy? That's low and economics speaking,

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John, that's been them, by
the way, but never mind, and

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Alito raised the question, well,
what about Franklin Roosevelt? Could he have

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been prosecuted after he left office for
the Japanese Internment for violating people's civil rights?

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And the lawyer said, oh,
well, you know, he had

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legal advice, and then Alito cut
him off. This was amazing to me

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because wait a minute, that's not
true what you just said. Attorney General

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Biddle and Herbert Hoover. Most people
don't know this. Biddle, the Attorney

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General and Herbert Hoover both opposed Japanese
internment and told Roosevelt they shouldn't do it.

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I'm not sure what the legal arguments
were. Almost nobody knows this.

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By the way, somebody, either
Alito or probably a clerk, really did

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their homework on this, and it
really caught the Justice Department lawyer by surprise.

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And I thought that was a slam
dunk for Alito. Steve Yea.

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Steve noticed all these points have nothing
to do with what did the original mean

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to those who are like I said, policies maybe not the right word.

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Maybe it's you know, what would
be the best constitutional mechanism if we're writing

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the constitution Now, I'm totally convinced
and Aldo, you're right, it's quite

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right to say if past presence can
be convicted, I mean prosecuted, you

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don't even have to go back as
far as FDR. I mean, you

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could say Obama right, like Obama? What about Biden? You know Obama?

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Right? Yeah, I mean like
somebody asked about Obama strikes, right,

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what about Biden and all the right
bribery? I mean you w trees

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and bribe, high crimes and miseries. What about influence peddling? So I

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totally agree and I but my point
only is that they're not talking about what

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did the founders think. They're talking
about how it makes good sense now,

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and I agree with them, But
that's not in the text. There's lots

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of things that text doesn't do that
we would maybe an improvement on what we

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have now. Well, of course, you know one of the arguments today,

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I forget which justice made it was. Look, the community is clearly

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implied and the vesting clause, you
know, the executive power, right?

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I mean my word here, John
is I know you are working on a

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book on Hamilton, the great champion
of executive power, as are you,

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And I'm afraid you're gonna blow it
though the one you're talking why why,

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well, no, why I'm not. Actually I think I think Hamilton is

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the most brilliant expositor of the executive
power, if not in our history,

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at least in America maybe the you
know world. But I'm not going to

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make the claim that his views represented
the founders because his views on the executive

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power, which I agree with,
we're kind of rejected at the Constitutional Convention

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and such. Well, well,
okay, which part of his views were

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accepted, which ones weren't. But
Hamilton doesn't claim that the presidents have criminal

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immunity. He's the one in the
other federal's paper about about impeachment. He's

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the one who says impeachment is an
offense against the body of public. It's

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not a crime. It's similar to
your description of medicine. But he's the

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one who says it's separate and different
than a criminal prosecution. And it's they're

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they're rejecting the British idea and the
British practice and the American constitution. And

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so that's why criminal law and criminal
prosecution comes after someone leaves off. Well

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ah, okay, well, so
first of all, uh, I think

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it was cake. And one of
the three liberal women said, isn't the

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whole point of our constitution was to
get away from the absolute power of a

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you know, the king or a
British monarch. Yes, And that's and

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that's harm Mansfield's extended argument, right, I agree, yeah, yeah,

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so, and that this is the
whole problem is uh, Look, John,

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the the of course we have to
remember that for Hamilton or even the

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people who are skeptical about the office
of the president, they didn't understand,

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they didn't think that, you know, only the most eminent people would have

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the office. Here's the problem,
I mean, the whole, the whole

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problem of having any level of court
to try to distinguish between an official act

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and a private act. Trump on
January sixth and throughout the post election procedure

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has an entirely solid argument to say. Oh and by the way, several

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justices said, look, we can't
define what his motives were. The subtext

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there is, how can we tell
if he's actually trying to corruptly undermine election

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that he lost, or trying to
defend the Constitution from a corrupt election.

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Excuse me? No court can decide
that reasonably and shouldn't be allowed to decide

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that. My point is, I
think Lucretion wants to jump in here.

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I see her agitation as you,
because I think if you go ahead and

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actually studied this, John, I'm
disappointed in you. Judges in cases of

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impeach. You know what else is
new? John, I wrote a whole

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article defending Trump from impeachment. Okay, but this is what in the article

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two section of Under the Senate Judges
in which is the one I believe you're

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referring to, Judges in cases of
impeachment shall not extend judgment. Excuse me,

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in cases of impeachment shall not extend
further than to removal from office and

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disqualification to hold and enjoy any office
of honor, trust, or profit under

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the United States. But the party
convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to

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indictment, trial, judgment, and
punishment according to law. It doesn't say

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that if you didn't manage to convict
to impeaching convictim, you can still try

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him for a criminal case. How
is that not? Also that's Trump,

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that's Trump's reading, and he thinks
that, how do you read it?

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He thinks the only people who can
be prosecuted are those who have been impeached

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and removed. And I don't think
it means that. I don't think it

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means that. I think what it's
saying there, and that's why you have

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to read it against the explanation of
the Federal's papers is that what it's saying

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is that the criminal process is just
separate and subsequent to whatever happens in impeachment.

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That's I mean, that's what Hamilton
says in the Federals paper, except

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it says you have to be convicted. It says, but the party convicted

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shall nevertheless be liable. So you
could read it as a rejection of the

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idea that there's double jeopardy. So
there's some people who think what this clause

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means is you can't be tried the
second time because you were criminally tried the

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first time, and you can't be
tried twice for the same crime. I

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think that actually this clauses a rejection
of that argument, which would be true

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if we had adopted the British system, because impeachment was criminal. So if

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you were impeached, you couldn't be
tried again, even if you were convicted,

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because it would be barred by double
jeopardy. That's the alternate reading.

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But if we go with Marshall's.
Marshal's way, he tells us to read

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the sorry I already lost it.
Now, to read the Constitution, which

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is to assume that no words are
superfluous, right, That's what Marshall tells

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us. It could have said,
you shall you know, impeachment shall not

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extend further, etcetera, etcetera.
But the party shall nevertheless be liable and

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subject to indictment. That's what it
could have said, and it didn't.

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It said, but the party convicted
shall nevertheless be liable and subject to indictment.

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I mean, I get that there's
ambiguity around the notion of criminal you

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know, treason, that's what we're
told, treason, bribery, these sorts

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of things, they can be crimes, they can be crimes against the body

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politic. One could argue that genuine
criminal activity in the president's office, in

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the executive office, is a crime
against the body politic. Right. I

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mean, that's why we investigate people
for corruption and that sort of thing all

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the time, because it's important that
we have honest people in office. But

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I think it's too much of a
stretch to say that somehow the Constitution is

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just giving a sort of wholesale blanket
check to the a presidential an executive who

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wants to use the criminal law against
his either former or future political rival.

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I think that I don't see anything
in the Constitution, the impeachment clause,

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etc. That would ever allow that
kind of a interpretation, and I think

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the Supreme Court should have that,
you know what's to say. So so

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there, all right, can I
sorry, go ahead, John, if

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you want to reply to that.
Well, look, I think that I

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think the important thing is that this
has never come up before. Yeah,

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because we've never prosecuted president before.
Now you guys should like this point.

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It's that because no matter what presidents
in the past had done, some might

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have done things that were you know, criminal too, right, we talked

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about just a minute ago, but
subsequent presidents chose not to prosecute him because

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of good leadership and statesmanship and prudence. Ah okay, no, no,

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So that so my point is now
that that's disappearing in our public life.

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People are defaulting to the legal system
to handle question which in the past had

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just been handled by presidents being good
leaders you know, like Gerald Ford deciding

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to pardon Trump, pardon Nixon,
excuse me? When if he had,

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if he had prosecuted Trump, excuse
me, Nixon, he would have surely

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been re elected, right because if
he barely lost and it was because of

399
00:30:51.960 --> 00:30:56.039
the pardon. So they've been but
they've all but Ford I think made a

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00:30:56.119 --> 00:31:00.400
great decision for him for the country, which was to get Watergate US and

401
00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:03.079
look to the future. And presidents
generally did that. But when presidents stop

402
00:31:03.359 --> 00:31:10.079
exercising good judgment, and someone like
Biden turns the power of the state against

403
00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:15.640
not just his predecessor but also his
main rival for the next election, then

404
00:31:15.799 --> 00:31:18.079
people have to default to the legal
system, which is going to drive people

405
00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:22.839
to extremes. Yeah, because there
can only be a binary right or wrong

406
00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:26.599
answer. In fact, I agree
with Lucretia. If you know, if

407
00:31:26.920 --> 00:31:30.039
Roberts and kavn are trying to shake
this compromise that's going to achieve political goals,

408
00:31:30.279 --> 00:31:33.759
we should reject it because that's not
interpreting the constitution. The legal system

409
00:31:33.799 --> 00:31:40.119
doesn't allow you to exercise rich results
that result in statesmanship and prudence, and

410
00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:44.240
that's the real fault here. Even
though we disagree with you guys about the

411
00:31:45.160 --> 00:31:47.680
you know, whether the president has
immunity or now, it really isn't a

412
00:31:47.759 --> 00:31:52.160
question we should our system should need
to answer because presidents should never exercise their

413
00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:56.559
power over prosecution this way. Yeah. So, I mean, what did

414
00:31:56.640 --> 00:32:00.400
we think was going to happen when
we started criminalizing pulled out differences forty fifty

415
00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:02.680
years ago. So here we are, and that, by the way,

416
00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:07.920
is why Trump should win in one
form or another for this case. But

417
00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:12.359
a broad point, John, is
you've just thrown a slow, fat pitch

418
00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:16.720
down the middle of the plate by
bringing up prudence and statesmanship. And I

419
00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:21.759
never try what I'm going to try
to draw this to an end and get

420
00:32:21.799 --> 00:32:24.359
onto the campus crystal knock, as
I'm calling it, although I'll probably fail.

421
00:32:25.200 --> 00:32:29.279
Look, it seems to me that
to settle this we have to go

422
00:32:29.400 --> 00:32:32.319
beyond the text, back to the
first principles that inform the text. And

423
00:32:32.519 --> 00:32:37.200
here I want to just share with
you a couple of lines from Harvey Mansfield

424
00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:42.640
to illuminate what I'm talking about.
So from his great book Taming the Prince,

425
00:32:42.680 --> 00:32:45.759
which I think is, by the
way, I mean what Harvey is

426
00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:47.400
what ninety four. Now. I
wonder if he will write an article in

427
00:32:47.440 --> 00:32:52.240
next three or four days talking about
the application of what he's after in this

428
00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:55.440
very profound book from thirty five years
ago. A couple of brief quotes that

429
00:32:55.839 --> 00:33:01.759
are not too enigmatic, even from
Harvey first, rather than supposing that our

430
00:33:01.880 --> 00:33:07.599
understanding of executive power today is at
its most sophisticated and developed, I believe,

431
00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:14.400
on the contrary, that it is
weak and impoverished compared to earlier insights.

432
00:33:14.960 --> 00:33:17.319
What earlier insights is they talking about? When he's talking about how what

433
00:33:17.880 --> 00:33:22.799
is that the fundamental aspect of political
life is that involves a lot of arbitrary

434
00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:27.319
power, a lot of arbitrary exertions. There was a moment today I think

435
00:33:27.359 --> 00:33:30.000
I mentioned that where you know,
Kagan or somebody said, weren't we trying

436
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:32.680
to get rid of the arbitrary power
of the king by having republican government?

437
00:33:34.119 --> 00:33:37.440
And Mansfield says yes and no.
Yes, we want a republican government that's

438
00:33:37.480 --> 00:33:44.279
self government. But you cannot escape
the necessity of executive power to argue,

439
00:33:44.799 --> 00:33:49.079
as Locke put it in that famous
chapter in prerogative, sometimes beyond or even

440
00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:52.559
against the law. Here's let's see
if I can find the great one.

441
00:33:52.599 --> 00:33:59.160
Yeah, here we are. Another
passage from Harvey. Executive power is intended

442
00:33:59.240 --> 00:34:05.480
to secure the difference between free government
and tyranny by giving the former some of

443
00:34:05.599 --> 00:34:10.199
the power and techniques of the ladder. Let me restate that he says the

444
00:34:10.280 --> 00:34:15.480
difference between free government and tyranny by
giving the former free government some of the

445
00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:21.000
power and techniques of the latter tyranny. Now he's not advocating for tyranny,

446
00:34:21.320 --> 00:34:24.360
but he's saying that sometimes presidents in
defense of the law, like Locke said,

447
00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:28.559
we'll have to do things that the
critics will say or tyranny, which

448
00:34:28.599 --> 00:34:32.320
of course is what Trump's critics say, what critics of Franklin Roosevelt say when

449
00:34:32.360 --> 00:34:37.840
he, for example, violated the
Neutrality Act an impeachable offense strictly speaking,

450
00:34:37.039 --> 00:34:42.360
right, and you can mention lots
of others. So in other words,

451
00:34:42.679 --> 00:34:45.320
if you think about it for a
moment, you cannot escape the necessity in

452
00:34:45.440 --> 00:34:52.639
politics for a executive to say,
wait a minute, I have to It's

453
00:34:52.679 --> 00:34:55.480
like Martin Luther, I must take
my stand. I can do no other.

454
00:34:55.760 --> 00:35:00.639
That's what Trump did after the election. Forget what the fact for a

455
00:35:00.760 --> 00:35:02.440
moment. I mean, the facts
are important, but the point is is

456
00:35:02.480 --> 00:35:07.199
that he has an entirely cogent case
to say, wait a minute, this

457
00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:09.719
was a crooked election and I'm not
going to stand for it and on behalf

458
00:35:09.719 --> 00:35:14.800
of the American people. And it
seems to me that's an entirely respectable argument,

459
00:35:14.880 --> 00:35:16.000
and why the Supreme Court should say, you know what, he's right,

460
00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:22.239
you should win this case. So
when I talk about this to students,

461
00:35:22.280 --> 00:35:25.760
I do it in a much more
simpler way. It's always craziest,

462
00:35:25.880 --> 00:35:31.639
but okay, you know, you
start with a really simple analogy, like

463
00:35:32.920 --> 00:35:38.760
when you get pulled over by a
police officer for speeding, for going twenty

464
00:35:38.840 --> 00:35:45.119
miles over this speed limit, and
the officer catches you and pulls you over,

465
00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:46.400
and he says, do you know
how fast you were going? And

466
00:35:46.480 --> 00:35:50.119
you say, the same speed you
were, officer, I figured it was

467
00:35:50.239 --> 00:35:55.079
legal. It's not going to do
well for you, right. Why does

468
00:35:55.119 --> 00:35:59.840
a police officer get to break the
speed limit law in order to enforce the

469
00:36:00.119 --> 00:36:05.639
law. But we tell the president
that somehow he is bound by every anybody's

470
00:36:05.800 --> 00:36:08.960
interpretation of any law, no matter
how twisted and sick it might be,

471
00:36:09.719 --> 00:36:15.719
and that if he doesn't meet that
twisted, sick definition of the law,

472
00:36:15.079 --> 00:36:20.800
that he's subject to prosecution. I
would sooner prosecute the Well, of course

473
00:36:20.840 --> 00:36:23.199
I probably would want to prosecute the
police officer for trying to give me a

474
00:36:23.239 --> 00:36:27.400
speeding ticket, But I'm just kidding
about that. But the point of the

475
00:36:27.480 --> 00:36:34.000
matter is, it's really it's a
simple idea. It's only the executive has

476
00:36:34.159 --> 00:36:39.039
the ability to in our constitutional system, which is somewhat extra constitutional. I

477
00:36:39.119 --> 00:36:44.719
think that's the point Steve was trying
to make, to sometimes go above the

478
00:36:44.840 --> 00:36:52.119
law and even against the law,
in order to promote a greater public good.

479
00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:57.599
What's the check on that. What's
the check that prevents that executive from

480
00:36:57.639 --> 00:37:01.199
becoming a tyrant. It's the police
medical check that John was talking about,

481
00:37:01.440 --> 00:37:08.960
for sure. It's not political prosecutions
by your political rival. There's no argument

482
00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:14.559
in any universe where that makes sense. That would be my simple way to

483
00:37:14.639 --> 00:37:17.880
put it. So, by the
way, I will say this not exactly

484
00:37:17.960 --> 00:37:22.480
the other side of things, John, But you know, I was horrified

485
00:37:22.760 --> 00:37:25.440
about January sixth, and I thought, because there was two more weeks before

486
00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:29.719
inauguration day, and I thought,
well, look, if you're serious that

487
00:37:29.800 --> 00:37:32.519
Trump has done all these horrible things, why wouldn't you apeach him in forty

488
00:37:32.559 --> 00:37:36.760
eight hours. No, I have
sense changed my mind a lot about January

489
00:37:36.840 --> 00:37:39.559
six but at the time I thought
they should have peached him immediately. They

490
00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:42.840
didn't do that. They went till
he was out of office. I mean,

491
00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:45.440
it was sort of unseerious. I
mean, if they really believed what

492
00:37:45.599 --> 00:37:49.920
they say about Trump and January sixth, why wouldn't they have peached him immediate

493
00:37:49.960 --> 00:37:51.760
They could have done that. They
don't need to have a long trial.

494
00:37:52.440 --> 00:37:54.920
That would have been the remedy,
it seems to me, and then problem

495
00:37:55.000 --> 00:37:59.519
solved. I don't know, that
seems like the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

496
00:37:59.599 --> 00:38:04.400
Steve's sorry, really, you have
a whole catalog of the dumbest things

497
00:38:04.400 --> 00:38:08.280
I've ever said. But my point
is is that the remedy, well,

498
00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:13.760
actually I'm saying the same thing you
are, and as each other is.

499
00:38:13.880 --> 00:38:19.239
I'm saying that, yeah, the
remedy is not political prosecutions by the Justice

500
00:38:19.239 --> 00:38:22.519
Department of the next president and so
forth. And then and then of course,

501
00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:24.159
the people are gonna it looks like
the people are going to have their

502
00:38:24.199 --> 00:38:29.159
say on this in November. This
is to me, the more important point

503
00:38:29.800 --> 00:38:35.920
is that the whole immunity thing,
I think the court grants community it actually

504
00:38:37.480 --> 00:38:40.920
saves Biden for political responsibility. For
this, I'd much rather. I think

505
00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:47.840
this is more consistent with Mansfield's theory
of the executive is the way we design

506
00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:52.920
the Republican executive. The way we
tame the prince is we still let the

507
00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:59.639
executive have the traditional executive powers,
but we tie the accountability and responsibility from

508
00:38:59.679 --> 00:39:05.400
the executive to the people directly,
rather than you know, monarchical theories or

509
00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:13.320
divine right of king theories or whatever. And so to me, the best

510
00:39:13.360 --> 00:39:15.440
thing that would come out of this
is not for the court to say you're

511
00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:21.360
immune Donald Trump prosecution over What I
would rather it be is that the people

512
00:39:21.719 --> 00:39:29.800
this November see how Biden abused the
justice system and abused the vast prosecutor prosecutoral

513
00:39:29.840 --> 00:39:35.559
powers of the government to pursue his
predecessor and his main rival, and vote

514
00:39:35.599 --> 00:39:37.880
him out of office for it,
because they would say, that's an abuse

515
00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:43.880
of what we want executives to do. And to me, that actually strengthens

516
00:39:43.920 --> 00:39:46.920
the executive because it makes sure,
you know, the use of the power

517
00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:52.480
is tethered to the people's approval,
rather than also asking the courts to save

518
00:39:52.599 --> 00:39:57.960
us from the bad use of executive
power that's being exercised by Biden. I

519
00:39:58.119 --> 00:40:00.800
agree with that, John, but
that puts how that puts the cart before

520
00:40:00.840 --> 00:40:04.639
the horse, And I'm going to
go back. I know I've used this

521
00:40:04.760 --> 00:40:08.119
example before, but I'm gonna go
back to twenty ten, in the June

522
00:40:08.199 --> 00:40:15.159
of excuse me. So, in
twenty ten, Obamacare's past. No,

523
00:40:15.519 --> 00:40:19.400
you know, no, no Americans
voted for it. Remember, as Biden

524
00:40:19.440 --> 00:40:23.800
told us, no Americans voted for
it. So in twenty twelve, excuse

525
00:40:23.800 --> 00:40:30.599
me, twenty ten is where a
bunch of Democrats lose their seats in Congress

526
00:40:30.679 --> 00:40:32.960
because the people are so unhappy with
it. Okay, so the people are

527
00:40:34.039 --> 00:40:39.159
unhappy. And then the case goes
before the Supreme Court and Sibelia's versus whatever

528
00:40:39.199 --> 00:40:50.079
the heck it was. Yeah,
and John Roberts says that this you know,

529
00:40:50.360 --> 00:40:54.840
we're not here. We're not here
to overturn stupid laws. We're here

530
00:40:55.880 --> 00:40:59.800
to make sure things, you know, to find a way that this law

531
00:40:59.840 --> 00:41:02.639
can be consistent with the Constitution.
And it's up to the people in their

532
00:41:02.719 --> 00:41:07.159
elections to vote members of Congress out
of office if they think what they did

533
00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:12.639
was bad. Right, that's Robert's
thing in Sibelians. Right. But what

534
00:41:12.920 --> 00:41:22.719
happens after that June decision. Every
damn headline out there is Supreme Court says

535
00:41:23.079 --> 00:41:30.239
Obamacare constitutional. It took the win
right out of the sales of everybody who'd

536
00:41:30.280 --> 00:41:32.360
been arguing that it was an abuse
of the federal government's power, et cetera,

537
00:41:32.360 --> 00:41:37.599
et cetera, et cetera, and
probably was a huge factor in Obama

538
00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:44.679
winning in twenty twelve. My argument
is that the Court has put itself so

539
00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:50.000
much in the middle of these things
that it can't it can't do what Roberts

540
00:41:50.039 --> 00:41:54.599
wants to do, which is decide
to step back and worry about the integrity

541
00:41:54.679 --> 00:42:00.280
of the court and let the people
decide when they've inserted themselves into every thing,

542
00:42:00.159 --> 00:42:07.320
even so far as to talk about
the suit brought by what was at

543
00:42:07.360 --> 00:42:12.599
eleven different states back in twenty twenty, where they argued that their equal protection

544
00:42:12.800 --> 00:42:16.199
rights were being violated in this and
that the other aspects of the state powers

545
00:42:16.559 --> 00:42:23.960
because so many other states violated their
own laws by changing election practices, et

546
00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:29.559
cetera. And the Supreme Court refused
to hear the case, they refused to

547
00:42:29.639 --> 00:42:34.039
grant standing to the case to the
states who were suing other states. Seems

548
00:42:34.079 --> 00:42:37.519
to me that's a little bit in
the constitution, idiots, But okay,

549
00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:44.519
what happens. Even the Supreme Court
said that Trump had no evidence of electoral

550
00:42:44.719 --> 00:42:50.679
fraud that was not what the Supreme
Court said. But what happens is the

551
00:42:50.760 --> 00:42:57.039
Supreme Court has made itself a lightning
rod for these political questions, and whatever

552
00:42:57.159 --> 00:43:01.000
decision they come out with on this
is going to be so easily abused and

553
00:43:01.119 --> 00:43:07.079
misinterpreted and misused and everything else.
You want to say that it's impossible to

554
00:43:07.199 --> 00:43:12.599
have that lovely opinion that you just
gave that I agree entirely with in theory.

555
00:43:13.559 --> 00:43:16.599
In theory, you're absolutely right,
but that would be in a vacuum.

556
00:43:17.480 --> 00:43:21.159
It wouldn't be in the universe we
live in. So we're going to

557
00:43:21.239 --> 00:43:27.079
mark you down. Lucretia has undecided
about the Supreme Court, and the Supreme

558
00:43:27.199 --> 00:43:31.599
Court and the idea that that that
that Roberts with his stupid balancing acts is

559
00:43:31.679 --> 00:43:36.400
going to somehow fix it is just
ludicrous. That's what really bothers me.

560
00:43:36.719 --> 00:43:38.960
And I think John agrees to me, agrees with me about that, because

561
00:43:39.360 --> 00:43:44.280
I do. I might want to
say that John wants to say stick to

562
00:43:44.360 --> 00:43:47.880
the Constitution, stick to the Constitution, and if it's somewhat ambiguous, stick

563
00:43:49.000 --> 00:43:52.639
deeper to the Constitution. I'm agree
with that. Well, all right,

564
00:43:53.440 --> 00:43:58.840
for the fans, you can't see
Lucretia's rant on the Supreme Court strangely made

565
00:43:58.880 --> 00:44:00.239
me feel so hungry. I had
to go out and get a wah wah

566
00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:05.880
soft pretzel while she was talking and
eat almost the whole thing, because you

567
00:44:06.679 --> 00:44:09.639
John, you gotta get jagular.
You're in Philadelphia tonight, Philadelpia. It's

568
00:44:09.719 --> 00:44:14.760
cold. But the most more thing
is I've got this wah wah soft pretzel

569
00:44:15.360 --> 00:44:19.920
sitting right here. Oh look at
that, and started going off on the

570
00:44:20.039 --> 00:44:25.519
court. I got really hungry reading
already. Well, and let's just say

571
00:44:25.559 --> 00:44:29.519
that, I mean, let's draw
to a clothes This is way. People

572
00:44:29.559 --> 00:44:34.039
always say that you shouldn't judge the
way a case may go by the oral

573
00:44:34.119 --> 00:44:37.159
arguments, and of course that's true, that's right. I think today the

574
00:44:37.239 --> 00:44:40.800
two most inscrutable people of the six
Conservatives were the Chief Justice, who seemed

575
00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:45.199
to be said the least he presided
very well the ordinary sense, and then

576
00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:50.320
Barrett was also somewhat reticent. I
thought, I thought she had this weird

577
00:44:50.400 --> 00:44:53.519
idea that you could have some kind
of other kind of immunity, right,

578
00:44:54.199 --> 00:44:58.920
this idea which she's got to be
referring to, like qualified immanity, which

579
00:44:58.960 --> 00:45:00.480
doesn't make a lot of sense,
right, Yeah, she's looking for a

580
00:45:00.599 --> 00:45:04.679
compromise too. No, it is, so I don't know how. I'm

581
00:45:04.679 --> 00:45:07.280
not going to make any predictions.
Look, the other big story going on

582
00:45:07.400 --> 00:45:10.039
right now, which we've talked about
endlessly, but now it's reached an acute

583
00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:16.159
phase, is what I'm calling crystal
knocked on campus. There's Columbia USC announced

584
00:45:16.199 --> 00:45:22.159
here the middle of the day Thursday, that they are canceling graduation, which

585
00:45:22.199 --> 00:45:25.800
normally takes place I think in the
coliseum. Sixty five thousand people normally come

586
00:45:25.840 --> 00:45:30.400
to it, which is kind of
amazing to me. And by the way,

587
00:45:30.880 --> 00:45:34.000
think about this for a moment that
a lot of the people graduating this

588
00:45:34.159 --> 00:45:37.639
year from college are people whose high
school graduation did not occur four years ago

589
00:45:37.719 --> 00:45:42.880
because of COVID, and now their
college graduation, at least at USC and

590
00:45:42.960 --> 00:45:46.039
probably elsewhere, is in jeopardy.
By the way, I expected dollars a

591
00:45:46.159 --> 00:45:49.880
year on college. Yeah, are
you going to forget all that? I

592
00:45:49.920 --> 00:45:52.400
mean, if you go to USC, you deserve to spend that kind of

593
00:45:52.440 --> 00:45:55.079
money. Okay, sorry, that's
my point. Okay, But look,

594
00:45:55.119 --> 00:45:58.360
the point is, I'll bet there's
going to be a lot of disruptions of

595
00:45:58.440 --> 00:46:01.880
commencement this year. Uh, and
what a bunch of whims USC are by

596
00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:05.239
the way, I mean they're gonna
I think it's in the call. I'm

597
00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:08.360
not sure it's coliseum or the sports
arena, but you know we have security

598
00:46:08.400 --> 00:46:12.679
for the Super Bowl. And I
do remember John, you know, our

599
00:46:12.840 --> 00:46:16.559
chancellor after the Mileo. She took
off ue after the Milo Unapolis disaster,

600
00:46:17.239 --> 00:46:22.239
and then when Ben Shapiro was invited
to come speak, she spent six hundred

601
00:46:22.239 --> 00:46:25.239
thousand dollars in security and made sure
that thing was gonna happen. And it

602
00:46:25.360 --> 00:46:29.800
upset all the lefties on campus.
And I was very proud of her for

603
00:46:29.880 --> 00:46:31.760
doing that because she said, we're
not gonna let the left take over the

604
00:46:31.840 --> 00:46:37.280
campus and stop Ben Shapiro from speaking. And I don't know if we've talked

605
00:46:37.320 --> 00:46:40.119
about this, because this is seven
or eight years ago now, but you

606
00:46:40.159 --> 00:46:44.559
know, Jersey barriers showed up at
two o'clock in the morning on the entire

607
00:46:44.679 --> 00:46:49.519
perimeter of the Berkeley campus and a
huge show of police force. No one

608
00:46:49.559 --> 00:46:53.119
could get in with a backpack or
anything that and Shapiro's talk went off without

609
00:46:53.119 --> 00:46:57.400
a hitch, and that broke the
fever. Why can't USC do that.

610
00:46:57.760 --> 00:47:00.559
Oh, I should back up.
You know, USC had picked as their

611
00:47:00.599 --> 00:47:07.119
commencement speaker a person who a young
lady who had had stellar grades, but

612
00:47:07.239 --> 00:47:12.599
it turned out she was an anti
semi and then it canceled her as their

613
00:47:12.639 --> 00:47:15.920
commencement speaker. This is a week
or ten days ago now, And of

614
00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:20.440
course they mumbled about, well,
we're worried about safety and offending people.

615
00:47:20.800 --> 00:47:22.719
No, they should have been embarrassed
because they picked someone who was an anti

616
00:47:22.760 --> 00:47:28.039
Semitic loon and they wouldn't admit that
openly. And now you know they they've

617
00:47:28.119 --> 00:47:31.119
had this fuss the last couple of
days and have canceled their graduation like cowards.

618
00:47:31.719 --> 00:47:35.599
And I didn't even want to start
in Columbia. But I'm not very

619
00:47:35.639 --> 00:47:37.039
optimistic here, do you know.
Usually I'm the one who says, you

620
00:47:37.079 --> 00:47:42.360
know, here and there we see
something good happening. But I was optimistic,

621
00:47:42.480 --> 00:47:45.719
Steve, you were really Yeah.
I was optimistic when I saw my

622
00:47:45.880 --> 00:47:49.800
feel good story of the day.
Did you see this, John, that

623
00:47:50.320 --> 00:47:57.760
Harvard students decided to start their occupation
of Harvard Yard last night? And it

624
00:47:57.840 --> 00:48:00.079
made me think of it because you
put your coat on. I supposedly got

625
00:48:00.199 --> 00:48:04.760
down in Cambridge last night did thirty
six degrees. So they're all out in

626
00:48:04.800 --> 00:48:10.239
their tents and at four o'clock in
the morning, the sprinklers came on and

627
00:48:10.559 --> 00:48:14.639
all their pets who were flooded and
they were freezing to death. And I

628
00:48:14.760 --> 00:48:17.199
just thought that was the best thing
I heard all day. I made me

629
00:48:17.360 --> 00:48:22.840
very happy. Sorry, yeah,
feel good thing. Yeah, but you

630
00:48:22.920 --> 00:48:24.599
know nothing. I mean, there
are a few campuses. I mean,

631
00:48:24.719 --> 00:48:29.039
USC cleared people out, but I
don't know that day was actually spending a

632
00:48:29.119 --> 00:48:35.079
night in jail. Texas is apparently
clearing people out of their campus. Oh,

633
00:48:35.239 --> 00:48:37.440
and you have faculties showing up to
defend the students. You know,

634
00:48:37.519 --> 00:48:40.440
again, Lucretian, I talked about
this a couple of weeks ago when we

635
00:48:40.519 --> 00:48:45.880
were out in Phoenix for Amalgirls conference. Is I mean, I don't want

636
00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:49.199
that from a rant here, but
you know, when you had those a

637
00:48:49.280 --> 00:48:54.159
handful of white supremacist young guys at
Charlottesville in twenty seventeen, you would have

638
00:48:54.159 --> 00:48:58.079
thought that was the greatest threat to
civilization ever. From the New York Times

639
00:48:58.119 --> 00:49:01.719
and the liberals, Wow, you
have it everywhere from the left, and

640
00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:06.199
the faculty comes out to the large
numbers of the fact that we come out

641
00:49:06.239 --> 00:49:07.360
to the fendlyse students, and I
don't know why they're not all just fired

642
00:49:07.360 --> 00:49:14.199
summarily. But of course not right. They'll keep up defending George Flood riots

643
00:49:14.280 --> 00:49:16.119
too. And you know what I
did, by the way, when somebody,

644
00:49:16.239 --> 00:49:21.800
when in a college meeting, somebody
suggested that they all march on a

645
00:49:21.880 --> 00:49:23.880
specific day. Da da da da
da, I said, you say another

646
00:49:23.920 --> 00:49:28.440
word and I will have you.
I will have you brought up on charges

647
00:49:28.519 --> 00:49:35.400
for using university resources to advocate a
political position. And everybody goes. I

648
00:49:35.519 --> 00:49:37.239
said, it's on page do da
da da da da da da da,

649
00:49:37.599 --> 00:49:43.159
and you can be fired from your
job or lesser consequences if you say one

650
00:49:43.239 --> 00:49:50.360
more word on this university meeting about
your political views or advocating a political position

651
00:49:50.599 --> 00:49:54.400
or political activity. No wonder you're
so popular. No yeah, I know,

652
00:49:54.719 --> 00:49:59.840
I know. No wonder people hack
my email and send out please I

653
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:05.960
I'm desperate, Please send me ten
thousand dollars stuff like that. I've liked

654
00:50:06.039 --> 00:50:09.480
two points. So one is I
know the provos at USC Andrew Gooseman,

655
00:50:09.519 --> 00:50:15.000
who's had to make all these decisions
because he was a colleague of mine at

656
00:50:15.039 --> 00:50:17.320
the law school for fifteen years or
so before he left to be dean at

657
00:50:17.360 --> 00:50:23.280
the USC Law School. And he's
an economist. And if anybody you know

658
00:50:23.440 --> 00:50:30.840
who, if anybody suspicious of mocism, it's generally economists. And the bad

659
00:50:30.920 --> 00:50:36.320
thing though, is that he's Canadian. Oh so you know he's trying to

660
00:50:36.360 --> 00:50:39.679
figure out I mean, I haven't
talked about this, but you know they,

661
00:50:39.920 --> 00:50:43.639
you know, the Canadians, they
don't like conflict. You know,

662
00:50:43.719 --> 00:50:46.679
they want to, you know,
find some compromise everybody could live with.

663
00:50:46.840 --> 00:50:52.679
So I could see why he would
ansel graduation rather than risk some kind of

664
00:50:53.199 --> 00:50:59.280
confrontation that could become violent. To
me, that's not as bad as Columbia

665
00:50:59.480 --> 00:51:02.599
forcing all classes to go to zoom
right right, that's really giving in.

666
00:51:04.360 --> 00:51:07.599
I have to I have to insert
my Babylon b here, John, just

667
00:51:07.679 --> 00:51:12.519
for you Asian kid who actually went
to Columbia to learn, getting real sick

668
00:51:12.599 --> 00:51:17.079
of this crap. Well Canadians,
I mean, any any Asian kid who

669
00:51:17.159 --> 00:51:23.400
was relegated to Columbia's an embarrassment to
their parents. What's the great old joke

670
00:51:23.440 --> 00:51:28.039
about you know, it had been
if Captain Bli had been Canadian, the

671
00:51:28.079 --> 00:51:35.719
whole story would have been strong disagreement
on the bounty. All right. I

672
00:51:35.880 --> 00:51:39.000
actually liked what happened at u T
Austin by the way, I mean right,

673
00:51:39.119 --> 00:51:45.199
the chancellor and the governor, I
think Governor Abould actually yeah, you

674
00:51:45.280 --> 00:51:49.639
know, was made clear that anybody
who tried to hold an unauthorized protests and

675
00:51:49.679 --> 00:51:52.320
block people's move was going to be
arrested. And they arrested them all right

676
00:51:52.360 --> 00:51:57.360
away. Yeah. I saw video
of like the mounted police coming in.

677
00:51:58.320 --> 00:52:01.920
Yeah, and supposedly priests people.
What would they do if a whole bunch

678
00:52:02.000 --> 00:52:10.239
of Nazi skinhead kids got out there
and argued that they needed to that death

679
00:52:10.400 --> 00:52:15.039
to people of color, death to
people of African decid I don't know you

680
00:52:15.159 --> 00:52:20.320
think of the anything like that that
the you know, the left finds that

681
00:52:20.519 --> 00:52:23.519
actually everybody finds objectionable. I shouldn't
even but but they would never tolerate that.

682
00:52:23.599 --> 00:52:29.920
There would be no free speech for
somebody to say affirmative action, uh

683
00:52:30.679 --> 00:52:35.280
just means didn't earn it and we
need to get rid of all minorities on

684
00:52:35.360 --> 00:52:39.280
campus. There's there's an opinion,
it's a stupid opinion, But doesn't free

685
00:52:39.320 --> 00:52:43.199
speech cover it? And why couldn't
you get out there and put up tents

686
00:52:43.239 --> 00:52:45.440
and protest that too, and they'd
never allow it, right, I mean

687
00:52:46.280 --> 00:52:51.119
it's or even what about faculty members, right, some faculty members I think

688
00:52:51.159 --> 00:52:55.800
someone was at Columbia said, oh, the October seventh attaxan gozz were great

689
00:52:57.679 --> 00:53:00.320
and we're supporting that. Can imagine
if fact member it got up and said

690
00:53:00.320 --> 00:53:06.679
there should be no more gay marriage, you would be fired. There should

691
00:53:06.679 --> 00:53:09.360
be no more gender neutral restrooms?
Yeah, you would be out on You

692
00:53:09.400 --> 00:53:14.920
would be fired. Well, I
mean to me, the deeper question here

693
00:53:15.039 --> 00:53:19.880
is is any administration at any call
or any group of trustees going to say,

694
00:53:19.920 --> 00:53:24.039
you know, the deeper problem here
is we have allowed the incubation of

695
00:53:24.159 --> 00:53:30.719
these poisonous ideologies of anti colonialism and
all that, and admitted too many foreign

696
00:53:30.840 --> 00:53:34.400
students and taking too much money from
Cutter, who, by the way,

697
00:53:34.400 --> 00:53:37.719
I think is financing these tents you
see everywhere. This is my suspicion and

698
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:42.519
that I'm very I'm very doubtful is
going to happen. But it's what needs

699
00:53:42.559 --> 00:53:45.360
to happen and what ought to happen. And when you know, George Packer,

700
00:53:45.519 --> 00:53:47.159
my article of the week that I
sent to you guys, was George

701
00:53:47.239 --> 00:53:52.920
Packer in The Atlantic saying, golly, maybe the university is responsible for this

702
00:53:53.039 --> 00:53:57.920
climate of hate against Jews, and
golly, maybe something should be done about

703
00:53:57.960 --> 00:54:00.679
it. Is I pointed out,
actually, John pon Honz the commentary said,

704
00:54:00.920 --> 00:54:04.760
you could have read that article anytime
in the last forty years in any

705
00:54:04.800 --> 00:54:08.079
conservative magazine. And now some of
these establishment types are figuring this out.

706
00:54:08.199 --> 00:54:12.800
But I think it's too much,
and their cowards too. Wait, it's

707
00:54:12.800 --> 00:54:15.719
a little deeper. It's that,
as you guys pointing out, if it

708
00:54:15.840 --> 00:54:20.280
was a conservative protest, these guys
would know exactly what they would want to

709
00:54:20.320 --> 00:54:23.639
do. They're paralyzed because they just
can't believe it was turned on them.

710
00:54:24.480 --> 00:54:29.280
Yeah. Yeah, that's the real
problem. It's it's not that they don't

711
00:54:29.320 --> 00:54:34.360
really. That's an argument I've been
making, honestly, not an argument because

712
00:54:34.360 --> 00:54:37.599
Steve, I think agrees with me. A point I've been making even before

713
00:54:37.000 --> 00:54:42.800
we thankfully added you as a co
host of the Three Whiskey Happy Hour,

714
00:54:42.920 --> 00:54:50.079
John, and that is that the
left, the radical, despicable, subhuman

715
00:54:50.280 --> 00:54:59.400
left, gets away with so much
because the more rational, the get along,

716
00:54:59.599 --> 00:55:02.760
the go along to get along lefties
who yeah, you know that's a

717
00:55:02.800 --> 00:55:07.400
little rat. Wait, I support
them. Yeah, they actually don't always

718
00:55:07.599 --> 00:55:12.880
know or acknowledge or or or actually, you know, they listen to NPR.

719
00:55:14.920 --> 00:55:16.360
Actually, by the way, John, Sorry, okay, I'll come

720
00:55:16.400 --> 00:55:20.400
back to that, they listen to
NPR. They don't have a sense of

721
00:55:20.559 --> 00:55:24.239
how really awful the project of the
left is. I cannot tell you how

722
00:55:24.320 --> 00:55:29.519
many times I talk to somebody and
they have no clue, for instance,

723
00:55:29.719 --> 00:55:36.039
that there were actually, you know, third grade teachers encouraging young a little

724
00:55:36.079 --> 00:55:39.880
girl who comes dressed like a tomboy
to transition to a boy, not tell

725
00:55:39.920 --> 00:55:45.800
her parents and start taking hormone blockers. You know, they think I'm crazy

726
00:55:45.840 --> 00:55:50.400
when I say something like that.
And so that's the way the left manages

727
00:55:50.480 --> 00:55:53.639
it. And what you said,
John is just a deeper, more profound

728
00:55:54.320 --> 00:56:00.760
way of expressing that. Now back
to NPR. I was listening. I

729
00:56:00.960 --> 00:56:04.719
was listening to an old podcast of
ours when I was on the on the

730
00:56:04.800 --> 00:56:08.880
Trumpmill the other day, and we
somehow the whole subject. Steve said something

731
00:56:09.280 --> 00:56:14.119
that sounds like something you get off
NPR. And you said, wait a

732
00:56:14.199 --> 00:56:19.480
minute, I love NPR and I
want to get that little that little clip,

733
00:56:19.599 --> 00:56:22.639
and how steep play it if we
were actually going to discuss NPR,

734
00:56:22.719 --> 00:56:24.960
but we never ended up doing so, so well, they're not going away.

735
00:56:25.000 --> 00:56:28.800
We'll get other chance, I know. But anyway, it's so great.

736
00:56:28.960 --> 00:56:31.880
And then of course I come back
with the you just love their schweaty

737
00:56:31.960 --> 00:56:44.320
balls. Yeah, it's sad NightLive. I just don't like hearing Lacurtia say

738
00:56:44.360 --> 00:56:46.000
it. I don't like to say
it, to be honest. It's kind

739
00:56:46.000 --> 00:56:50.079
of file. But but hey,
you know what, maybe I'll start a

740
00:56:50.159 --> 00:56:57.159
new career being U crackhead Barney too. Are you guys watching crackhead Barney.

741
00:56:57.679 --> 00:57:01.280
No, I don't even know what
you're talking about. Oh my gosh,

742
00:57:01.400 --> 00:57:05.079
I'm not even going to go any
further. You guys just have to get

743
00:57:05.119 --> 00:57:08.800
off this podcast. Go just she
had it, I can't. She's the

744
00:57:09.000 --> 00:57:14.039
person. It is the person who
went up to Alec Baldwin when he was

745
00:57:14.360 --> 00:57:19.960
standing at a counter paying and on
his phone, and she just starts screaming

746
00:57:20.039 --> 00:57:23.639
in his face, Free Palestine,
Free Palestine. But she oh, okay,

747
00:57:23.880 --> 00:57:32.280
he walks around wearing nothing but a
diaper and body paint. Oh I

748
00:57:32.400 --> 00:57:37.840
totally missed this. I saw some
Morgan last night. He interviewed her you

749
00:57:37.920 --> 00:57:42.239
got to look that up because I
didn't see some clip on YouTube or somewhere

750
00:57:42.440 --> 00:57:45.880
some woman yelling at Alec Baldwin the
last few days. Why did you shoot

751
00:57:45.920 --> 00:57:49.239
that woman or something about that whole
you know, the movie said she didn't

752
00:57:49.280 --> 00:57:52.159
ask him any of that. There
is somebody else. This is somebody else.

753
00:57:52.280 --> 00:57:54.159
This is a separate thing. So
well, all right, we should

754
00:57:54.199 --> 00:57:58.199
draw to an end here. I
mean, all these subjects will be ripe

755
00:57:58.400 --> 00:58:01.559
for next week and months to come. So do you have some good Babylon

756
00:58:01.679 --> 00:58:06.800
bees for us? Un I was
gonna shock you guys and put up a

757
00:58:06.840 --> 00:58:13.239
picture of craighead Barney. But okay, So in keeping with our last subject

758
00:58:13.800 --> 00:58:19.159
sad Harvard College students so caught up
harassing Jews he forgot to turn his in

759
00:58:19.519 --> 00:58:24.239
his term paper on inclusion. That's
good, that's good. Oh the bees

760
00:58:24.280 --> 00:58:29.400
having a field day. Yeah yeah, I mean, actually, uh,

761
00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:35.119
our friend Richard Samuelson sent me a
bee yesterday which was something like, uh,

762
00:58:36.119 --> 00:58:42.519
Hilliard Hilliard College goes one hundred and
fifty years without any violent protest,

763
00:58:42.920 --> 00:58:46.199
And it was actually, yes,
sorry, it was Hillsdale College one hundred

764
00:58:46.199 --> 00:58:50.599
and eighty years without an anti semitic
protest. Yeah right, and I said

765
00:58:50.639 --> 00:58:57.800
that's a parody. This is that's
actually true. So one more, and

766
00:58:57.920 --> 00:59:08.199
that Israel must end it's illegal occupation, cry people staging illegal that you probably

767
00:59:08.360 --> 00:59:15.920
heard the news about all the people
that the twits and Arizona indicted. Arizona

768
00:59:16.000 --> 00:59:24.760
indicts Trump allies for questioning election results
while Republican John I'm glad you laughed at

769
00:59:24.800 --> 00:59:30.760
that. Trump will receive a fair
and impartial trial, says judge, as

770
00:59:30.840 --> 00:59:37.800
construction crew builds gallows outside. Yeah, and then I'll just kind of end

771
00:59:37.840 --> 00:59:43.320
it with this one. Columbia protesters
clarify they only want death to America after

772
00:59:43.400 --> 00:59:49.960
America is done paying their student loans. Oh man, there we go on

773
00:59:50.079 --> 00:59:52.440
forever. But we shouldn't, so
John, you want to begin launching us

774
00:59:52.480 --> 00:59:59.000
out as usual. Yes, always
drink your whiskey, meat, let's grow

775
00:59:59.239 --> 01:00:06.440
go Brandon and Steve, God save
the Queen man paws. You got that

776
01:00:06.559 --> 01:00:10.800
thing right now? Yeah, that
was pretty good. Pause. Okay,

777
01:01:00.039 --> 01:01:07.360
mm hmmm. Ricochet join the conversation