WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:03.200 And it hits me, Oh my gosh, this is a triangle. You 2 00:00:03.240 --> 00:00:07.280 know, there's explanation for everything that occurred in the randallsham parscient. It doesn't 3 00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:12.199 involve aliens at all. It was completely silent. It comes right over our 4 00:00:12.240 --> 00:00:18.480 heads classics also really standing into clearing. He turned over to my father and 5 00:00:18.519 --> 00:00:20.760 held his hand, and he looked in his eyes and said, we're not 6 00:00:20.800 --> 00:00:29.519 alone. Welcome to podcast UFO for our live show. During the show, 7 00:00:29.600 --> 00:00:33.679 feel free to participate live in our chat room, and don't forget to like 8 00:00:33.840 --> 00:00:39.079 us on our very active Facebook page. Hello, and welcome to the show. 9 00:00:39.399 --> 00:00:43.079 It's a great one tonight. I'm looking forward to it. Our guest 10 00:00:43.159 --> 00:00:47.520 tonight is John Greenwell Junior, and I've been trying to get him on the 11 00:00:47.520 --> 00:00:51.439 show for a long time and finally alas he's on the show. It'll be 12 00:00:51.479 --> 00:00:55.640 great to talk to him later on. First of all, we have Alejandro 13 00:00:55.840 --> 00:00:59.799 Rojas coming up with the news, and before that, I just want to 14 00:00:59.799 --> 00:01:03.239 say we have a new blog that actually ties in with tonight's show. It's 15 00:01:03.280 --> 00:01:07.920 called foy is Giving All Our Secrets Away, and that's by Charles Lear who 16 00:01:07.959 --> 00:01:11.480 writes blogs now for us about once a week. Actually has been doing pretty 17 00:01:11.480 --> 00:01:18.439 steady for every week, so check that out on podcast ufo dot com. 18 00:01:18.480 --> 00:01:21.680 I want to thank everyone that supports the show. Without your support, we 19 00:01:21.680 --> 00:01:23.959 couldn't be doing this. Cost actually quite a bit to do the show, 20 00:01:25.040 --> 00:01:30.079 and it's a goal player problem. It's become fairly fairly popular. I had 21 00:01:30.079 --> 00:01:36.040 to get a dedicated server. I use a bandwidth for the show stuff like 22 00:01:36.079 --> 00:01:41.159 that, so it's all really I'm very grateful to all the listeners out there, 23 00:01:41.359 --> 00:01:46.040 and I want to thank you and for right now, I'm going to 24 00:01:46.079 --> 00:01:51.120 bring in my one and only ala Jandro Rojas. Buddy, how you doing, 25 00:01:51.120 --> 00:01:55.519 Alay doing pretty good? How you doing great? Great? So what 26 00:01:55.760 --> 00:01:59.319 is happening in the world of UFOs today? Yeah, well, you know 27 00:01:59.400 --> 00:02:02.400 what I Scott late breaking news. I don't know much about this story yet, 28 00:02:02.480 --> 00:02:07.200 but it's an interesting headline. It's written by Tyler Rogue Away. Have 29 00:02:07.319 --> 00:02:09.520 you had him on? I have and this, Yeah, just to let 30 00:02:09.520 --> 00:02:14.719 the listener know, this just happened while we just connected, and you said, 31 00:02:14.759 --> 00:02:16.560 hey, I just this just came across the wire, so to speak, 32 00:02:16.840 --> 00:02:23.520 just popped up online right now exactly, and it's exciting because Tyler tweeted 33 00:02:23.560 --> 00:02:25.960 earlier today, and for people who don't remember, he's a defense writer for 34 00:02:27.080 --> 00:02:31.159 this website called The Drive. It's kind of a Time Warner website, and 35 00:02:31.599 --> 00:02:37.560 he writes particularly for the war zones, who he writes about, you know, 36 00:02:37.719 --> 00:02:43.120 jets and aerospace defense type of things, and just recently, at least 37 00:02:43.120 --> 00:02:46.120 in the last year or so, he's also been posting some incredible UFO cases 38 00:02:46.120 --> 00:02:51.080 that he comes across. In fact, he's told me before that if someone 39 00:02:51.120 --> 00:02:53.680 in aerospace says they don't believe in UFOs or are at least aren't interested, 40 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:58.560 I shouldn't say believe but aren't interested, then they're lying. He says that 41 00:02:58.719 --> 00:03:02.000 at least the interest is pervasives throughout the community, something I wasn't aware. 42 00:03:02.039 --> 00:03:07.400 Of course, I knew many people were interested. But earlier today he tweeted, 43 00:03:07.599 --> 00:03:10.800 big posts coming out today. You will find it highly interesting if you're 44 00:03:10.879 --> 00:03:17.479 into mysterious facilities and secret aircraft. And then he sent me a private message 45 00:03:17.560 --> 00:03:23.680 that said look close for hints in this. So, of course, when 46 00:03:23.680 --> 00:03:28.199 I saw the original tweets, already excited so that he literally just must have 47 00:03:28.319 --> 00:03:32.080 hit send on his Twitter right before the show started. And here's the headline. 48 00:03:32.520 --> 00:03:40.080 Vandenberg Air Force Space Space Shuttle Processing Facility now has a very mysterious mission. 49 00:03:40.759 --> 00:03:46.280 The basis old Orbiter Processing Facility offers high security and isolation as well as 50 00:03:46.360 --> 00:03:53.879 ease of operation and access to vast sanitized airspace. So there must be some 51 00:03:53.919 --> 00:03:58.759 sort of operation running out of here that he has a hint of that he's 52 00:03:58.800 --> 00:04:01.639 explaining here in the yard. Haven't had a chance to read it, but 53 00:04:02.479 --> 00:04:06.319 he's been very mysterious in telling us to, you know, take a look 54 00:04:06.319 --> 00:04:11.479 at this, and so I'm excited to read it. But people can find 55 00:04:11.479 --> 00:04:15.159 that on Twitter if they follow my Twitter. I've retweeted it, but I'll 56 00:04:15.159 --> 00:04:17.120 put it on all of our social media out there, and of course then 57 00:04:17.160 --> 00:04:23.040 you all can find it and post it on the podcast UFO Media as well. 58 00:04:24.079 --> 00:04:27.639 So that's something interesting that just happened. Light breaking news. Otherwise, 59 00:04:27.639 --> 00:04:32.560 there's a lot of news out there. So we do have for the unidentified 60 00:04:32.639 --> 00:04:38.040 television show History Channel is running that's going to be covering a bit of a 61 00:04:38.199 --> 00:04:41.279 tip and it's going to essentially it looks like lou Alsando is going to be 62 00:04:41.399 --> 00:04:45.160 kind of the main guy on it. But of course what he's doing with 63 00:04:45.199 --> 00:04:47.600 to the Stars is going to be in there, and at least I've been 64 00:04:47.639 --> 00:04:54.040 able to have a look at some still photos and Steve Justice it seems like 65 00:04:54.040 --> 00:04:58.040 we'll play a pretty big role in it as well. And then of course 66 00:04:58.120 --> 00:05:01.079 Tom DeLong will be in it somewhat, but it doesn't seem like he's going 67 00:05:01.160 --> 00:05:04.920 to be in throughout the show, but bits and pieces. It's hard to 68 00:05:04.959 --> 00:05:09.839 say for sure. But the show is going to be starting on May thirty 69 00:05:09.920 --> 00:05:14.959 first, so that's the first time we've heard about this so late May that 70 00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:19.839 will come out. Also, I did post another story called from a Sap 71 00:05:20.079 --> 00:05:24.759 to a Tip, and that's essentially a lot of people who have been wondering, 72 00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:28.319 including your guest today, has been writing about this kind of how did 73 00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:30.959 it happen? Why are there two different names? Why did the New York 74 00:05:30.959 --> 00:05:34.920 Times cover one name? What was the nature? How did this transition happen? 75 00:05:35.040 --> 00:05:39.920 What's going on here? So I did write a story about it, 76 00:05:39.959 --> 00:05:44.560 and I did interview Alesando to try to clear these things up because this has 77 00:05:44.600 --> 00:05:47.000 been a big problem for me. Also, I've been really confused about this 78 00:05:47.319 --> 00:05:50.720 and it really hasn't made sense to me. Now. When I asked Lou 79 00:05:50.759 --> 00:05:55.680 about it, he felt like he had talked so much about it that you 80 00:05:55.720 --> 00:05:58.800 know, all of the info was out there, but it was hard to 81 00:05:58.839 --> 00:06:01.040 piece it all together. So least I think meet myself and many others were 82 00:06:01.560 --> 00:06:06.240 confused despite of what he had already posted out there or talked about it symposiums 83 00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:11.720 or different talks. So the gist of it is and George napp at least 84 00:06:11.800 --> 00:06:16.399 my interview gave me some of this, but it asapp the Advanced Aerospace Weapons 85 00:06:16.439 --> 00:06:21.720 System Application program was the beginning. So The New York Times touched on this 86 00:06:21.759 --> 00:06:27.120 a bit, and I'll have an article really laying all this out more for 87 00:06:27.199 --> 00:06:30.639 the layman who is not up to speed on all of this on Den of 88 00:06:30.680 --> 00:06:36.839 Geek later this week. But adia agent red Skinwalker the skin Walker book, 89 00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:41.600 said I want to go to Skinwalker, right. We know this to George 90 00:06:41.680 --> 00:06:44.959 Nappen, The New York Times hinted at it, they said The New York 91 00:06:44.959 --> 00:06:49.519 Times said the DA official was going to meet Bigelow at his ranch where he 92 00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:54.279 did research. What they did not mention, of course, is what this 93 00:06:54.360 --> 00:06:57.519 ranch was, where this ranch was, and the significance of this ranch. 94 00:06:57.839 --> 00:07:00.959 What we know, of course about this ranch is that it's skin Walker Ranch, 95 00:07:00.040 --> 00:07:03.839 where a lot of craziness has happened. So this guy goes out there, 96 00:07:03.879 --> 00:07:09.160 he has his own personal experience that is supposedly remarkable. Now, the 97 00:07:09.240 --> 00:07:13.079 name of the person who went out there, they've kept anonymous, and they 98 00:07:13.079 --> 00:07:15.879 haven't given details about what happened. But the New York Times article said, 99 00:07:15.920 --> 00:07:21.600 after this guy met Bigelow, then some DA officials went to Senator Read and 100 00:07:21.680 --> 00:07:25.600 said, we want to start a research program. And this is kind of 101 00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:30.959 how this all started. However, what we've heard from Napp and others is 102 00:07:30.959 --> 00:07:35.240 that AUSP was looking primarily into Skinwalker Ranch, and of course Skinwalker has UFO 103 00:07:35.360 --> 00:07:40.639 stuff attached to it. We've seen some of that in the book, but 104 00:07:40.720 --> 00:07:47.040 also in Jeremy Corbell's documentary about the skin Walker. So what happened was essentially 105 00:07:47.639 --> 00:07:53.040 soon after ASSAP began and they were looking into these paranormal issues, of which 106 00:07:53.079 --> 00:07:58.000 were really weird. I mean, George Knapp released a statement by a manager 107 00:07:58.040 --> 00:08:03.879 with bass who outlined some really weird stuff that they were looking into. But 108 00:08:03.319 --> 00:08:07.639 people got wind of this and they didn't like it. Inside the DA. 109 00:08:07.879 --> 00:08:11.600 Essentially, George has talked about this, Lou has talked about this that there 110 00:08:11.600 --> 00:08:16.839 were these religious factions who felt that this was demonic and that we shouldn't be 111 00:08:16.879 --> 00:08:20.480 messing with it, so they sought to take the program down at this time, 112 00:08:20.560 --> 00:08:24.519 seeing the writing on the wall, they pulled out. They made a 113 00:08:24.519 --> 00:08:31.919 subgroup within a sasapp that was just military UFO cases and that was a tip. 114 00:08:33.200 --> 00:08:37.759 When Lou came on, he just worked on a tip and then eventually 115 00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:41.879 they were right. O SAP was taken down. It was just too controversial 116 00:08:41.080 --> 00:08:46.559 for the people inside the DA. But fortunately they had pulled out the UFO 117 00:08:46.679 --> 00:08:50.000 program and for this reason to save it, and that continued. Lou then 118 00:08:50.039 --> 00:08:54.440 took that over in twenty ten and a tip continued and allegedly continues to this 119 00:08:54.559 --> 00:08:58.000 day. This is information though that Lou gave me. That's kind of interesting. 120 00:08:58.360 --> 00:09:03.639 A tip no longer has the same name. Why a bit of a 121 00:09:03.639 --> 00:09:09.200 similar reason, os app moved to a tip that a tip is getting too 122 00:09:09.279 --> 00:09:13.320 much attention. So in order to keep this new program, you know, 123 00:09:13.519 --> 00:09:18.320 discreet and to keep eyes off of what they're doing, they change the name. 124 00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:20.039 Lu doesn't even know the name, nor does he want to know the 125 00:09:20.120 --> 00:09:26.360 name, essentially because they're keeping it secret. So but he does know who's 126 00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:31.279 involved essentially, who his predecessor is, and that this work is still going 127 00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:35.559 on. Well thing, that's essentially the yea one, pardon, I didn't 128 00:09:35.559 --> 00:09:39.000 mean to interrupt you, but one, no problem. What about the funding, 129 00:09:39.039 --> 00:09:43.679 because that you know that supposedly had ceased it is a good point. 130 00:09:43.960 --> 00:09:46.879 Well, there's a number of things when it comes to the funding. First 131 00:09:46.879 --> 00:09:52.879 of all, the funding was for oss APP that went from two thousand and 132 00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:56.799 seven to twenty twelve. Of course a TIP was a part of ass APP, 133 00:09:56.840 --> 00:10:00.919 so a TIP received some of that funding that division essentially of asap. 134 00:10:01.000 --> 00:10:07.200 Otherwise, after twenty twelve, lou has received at least mentioned at a moof 135 00:10:07.240 --> 00:10:13.440 On symposium that he received other funding and a joint ICA project. What that 136 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:20.720 often means is that some group received funding and that the emission of this project 137 00:10:20.799 --> 00:10:24.279 they received funding for was similar to what a TIP was doing, so they 138 00:10:24.279 --> 00:10:26.679 were able to work together on it and eight TIP got some data from that. 139 00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:31.000 What Lewis also said is similar things have happened in the past where they 140 00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:37.240 were able to get data from like you know, he gave the example of 141 00:10:37.039 --> 00:10:43.240 satellites looking for nukes coming out of or missiles coming out of North Korea. 142 00:10:43.279 --> 00:10:46.519 Well, if they got anything that fits certain parameters that a TIP was looking 143 00:10:46.519 --> 00:10:50.519 for, then they were able to get some data for that. So essentially 144 00:10:50.720 --> 00:10:54.039 they've kind of gone around and asked for data from other programs that might have 145 00:10:54.120 --> 00:10:56.039 data for sort of things they were looking for. In fact, there's a 146 00:10:56.039 --> 00:11:03.080 guy Philippe from France who did a great presentation at the ANSU in Alabama, 147 00:11:03.159 --> 00:11:07.480 and he was showing us how they all of these satellites that are out there 148 00:11:07.759 --> 00:11:11.159 are collecting data and a lot of this data is going into these major databases. 149 00:11:11.399 --> 00:11:16.159 So if we could create partnerships with some of these these satellite creators and 150 00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:22.320 these for access to these databases, it would be something that UFO group should 151 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:24.679 do because then we would be able to say, hey, we had this 152 00:11:24.759 --> 00:11:28.720 great sighting here, go to these databases and get satellite imagery from that area 153 00:11:28.759 --> 00:11:33.639 and see if we see whatever it was the witnesses saw. Nobody's kind of 154 00:11:33.679 --> 00:11:37.639 doing that yet, but that was the gist of his presentation to show that 155 00:11:37.720 --> 00:11:41.399 there's a lot of data out there. So certainly that's a similar sort of 156 00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:46.080 thing apparently that they did with an a TIP. I see, Hey, 157 00:11:46.120 --> 00:11:52.320 by the way, some astute person on YouTube was asking where you're floating UFO 158 00:11:52.399 --> 00:11:58.799 went, did you sell it? Oh? No, what we did and 159 00:12:00.039 --> 00:12:03.200 what happened was essentially, okay, that's so funny, and people ask one 160 00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:09.840 of them broke for a customer, you mean head crash, And that was 161 00:12:09.879 --> 00:12:11.879 the last one we had, was my sample, so I had to send 162 00:12:11.960 --> 00:12:18.120 him my my personal one that I had been using so to replace their broken 163 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:20.159 one because you know, but we are getting a new batch of those in 164 00:12:20.559 --> 00:12:24.120 like tomorrow, so they fly, they go really fast. So all we 165 00:12:24.159 --> 00:12:28.559 got was five silver and five gray, so they're probably gonna sell out within 166 00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:31.879 the next week. So if you want one, go to the UFO Congress 167 00:12:31.960 --> 00:12:35.440 dot com store and get it as soon as possible. We do have them 168 00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:41.440 up for presale because they're going to go quickly. They fly off the shelves. 169 00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:45.039 They don't actually fly, they just fly fly off the shelves. That's 170 00:12:45.039 --> 00:12:46.919 a good way to put it. Yeah. One last thing I think as 171 00:12:46.960 --> 00:12:52.279 interesting is the New York Times part because essentially, well why didn't The New 172 00:12:52.360 --> 00:12:56.200 York Times used to term os AP Essentially LU said, I didn't work for 173 00:12:56.320 --> 00:12:58.559 us APP, I worked for a tip. They never asked me about asapp 174 00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:01.840 or the par Normal. It wasn't my place to even talk about that, 175 00:13:01.960 --> 00:13:05.840 so I didn't. And you will see that there's a lot of things that 176 00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:09.720 LU doesn't talk about until that information is leaked by a third party, typically 177 00:13:09.759 --> 00:13:15.000 that's George Knapp. Once the information gets out there, then he's able to 178 00:13:15.039 --> 00:13:18.679 share it. And George Knapp a lot of what it seems he's gotten. 179 00:13:18.679 --> 00:13:22.080 He says he's gotten from DC and it seems like, you know, this 180 00:13:22.159 --> 00:13:26.720 is an assumption, but I'm guessing he's getting that from Read or Read's office 181 00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:28.519 something like that, but I can't say for sure. I don't know. 182 00:13:28.639 --> 00:13:33.799 He has not explicitly said that about that. Well, yeah, so there's 183 00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:37.879 some backgrounds there. Otherwise, I'll review just a couple of real quick stories, 184 00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:41.320 just that there's a couple of good things out there. There's an article 185 00:13:41.559 --> 00:13:48.159 in the Star Tribune about why scientists are starting to listen to UFO believers, 186 00:13:48.320 --> 00:13:52.320 and we're starting to see a lot of stories along these lines. And essentially 187 00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:56.159 they're reviewing mouf On, they're reviewing the Pentagon program and talking about, hey, 188 00:13:56.200 --> 00:14:00.159 some of these guys are more credible than we thought. All So, 189 00:14:00.279 --> 00:14:05.679 the Detroit Free Press covered the Bob Blazar documentary that's kind of getting a renewed 190 00:14:05.879 --> 00:14:09.159 interest, which is kind of interesting. I know it's going to be in 191 00:14:09.159 --> 00:14:16.639 in a film festival here soon, and then this is the last one I'll 192 00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:22.240 cover Otherwise. The other stuff is kind of similar to what we've seen before. 193 00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:26.720 But well, two things. First of all, the UFO fun shuns 194 00:14:26.799 --> 00:14:30.840 little green men to buy satellites and rockets, so you're gonna see the the 195 00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:35.519 ticker symbol UFO now when you're looking at you know, these different markets. 196 00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:41.519 But unfortunately it's not a UFO company that has taken that. It's an actual 197 00:14:41.679 --> 00:14:46.799 UFO fund that is funding satellites and rockets and space programs. But yeah, 198 00:14:46.840 --> 00:14:50.120 now on the stock exchange sticker, you're going to see the the UFO symbol 199 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:54.480 and that's what it is. The other thing is that there was a really 200 00:14:54.480 --> 00:15:00.320 interesting meeting by the and there was a Senate hearing on the Space Force and 201 00:15:00.440 --> 00:15:03.960 Senator Bloomenthal had some really odd things to say. We've got links to all 202 00:15:03.960 --> 00:15:07.720 of this it Open Minds TV right on the front page. But he said 203 00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:13.360 that there's some scary stuff essentially going on in space that our adversaries know, 204 00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:20.200 that we know about this. We discussed this and classified meetings, but the 205 00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:24.600 public has no idea. So the public has no context for these conversations that 206 00:15:24.639 --> 00:15:30.720 we're having about security and space, and we really need to let the public 207 00:15:30.919 --> 00:15:37.720 in on what's happening here and the threats from space. Really odd verbiage and 208 00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:41.279 it's kind of scary really. Of course, a lot of the UFO people 209 00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:43.639 are thinking, Oh, he's got to be talking to UFOs and aliens and 210 00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:48.440 stuff like that. We don't know that for sure. He did say adversaries, 211 00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:52.200 but yeah, some very interesting verbiage that he used in this video. 212 00:15:52.360 --> 00:15:58.679 Yeah, adversaries. Well clingons, Yeah, all right, Lingons, all 213 00:15:58.759 --> 00:16:00.559 right, man, thanks so much. All right, thank you, have 214 00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:04.000 a good show. Okay, I'll talk to you next week. Actue later. 215 00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:10.960 All right, So our guest, our guest to this evening is John 216 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:15.759 Greenwald Junior, and I met him out in Phoenix. Oh, I would 217 00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:19.600 say it was I think it was two years ago. I'll ask him because 218 00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:25.399 I can't remember something like that because one year I got stuck in a snowstorm 219 00:16:25.519 --> 00:16:27.200 never made it out there. But I think it was about two years ago. 220 00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:30.759 Anyway, I've been trying to get him on the show almost since day 221 00:16:30.759 --> 00:16:34.840 one. We finally connected, and here he is. He's been actually he's 222 00:16:34.879 --> 00:16:41.720 been actually looking at this topic and and doing active work since he was fifteen 223 00:16:41.799 --> 00:16:45.440 years old. And here he is, John Greenwald. How are you welcome 224 00:16:45.440 --> 00:16:48.000 to the show. I'm good. Yeah, thanks for having me. I 225 00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:51.440 really appreciate it's good to be here. I'm glad we finally met up. 226 00:16:51.440 --> 00:16:55.000 I know it's been a long time, so I appreciate your patience on that. 227 00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:59.840 Yep. Well, I always thought that i'd like to have you on. 228 00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:02.639 Um and uh, you know, right off the bat, I want 229 00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:06.200 to say that, UM, I have told you this in person. But 230 00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:11.359 when I talked to stand Uh Freeman, you know, several years ago, 231 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:14.640 I said, who's the next Stan Freeman? And he didn't even hesitate. 232 00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:17.680 He mentioned your name, he said, and those are big shoes to fill. 233 00:17:18.279 --> 00:17:19.599 So those are big shoes to fill. Yeah, it's such an honor 234 00:17:19.640 --> 00:17:22.480 for someone like him to say that. I don't know if I quite live 235 00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:26.160 up to that, but I do appreciate him him saying that for sure. 236 00:17:26.359 --> 00:17:30.440 Yeah, UM, can you give I just mentioned you started, you know, 237 00:17:30.519 --> 00:17:33.440 doing this work at such a young age, and I think that is 238 00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:38.039 just amazing and I'm hoping that more people that are, you know, young 239 00:17:38.079 --> 00:17:41.039 people do get involved in some A little worried about it when to go to 240 00:17:41.079 --> 00:17:45.200 some of the conferences. Is you know there's a lot of gray hair like 241 00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:48.960 mine out there. Yeah, give you a lot more on my head too, 242 00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:52.240 coming around. I blame the kids. Yeah, right right, that's 243 00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:56.400 right. Um, so can you, you know, tell the listening audience 244 00:17:56.440 --> 00:18:02.839 you're basically your background and sure which gets you started in this whole interest anyway? 245 00:18:03.319 --> 00:18:06.920 Yeah, I wish I had a better story to tell other than I 246 00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:11.079 was just curious. I was fifteen years old and I was back in nineteen 247 00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:15.640 ninety six. I was a sophomore in high school. And as a sophomore, 248 00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:18.640 you know, you're supposed to be studying in school and not writing letters 249 00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:23.759 to the government and researching UFOs. But I found myself fascinated by the UFO 250 00:18:23.839 --> 00:18:27.599 topic. Now, at the time, Google wasn't really a thing. Nowadays, 251 00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:30.079 we say, well, we're going to go Google something. Alta Vista 252 00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:34.480 was the search engine the day, and yeah, so those long time Internet 253 00:18:34.599 --> 00:18:38.759 users will remember that. And so I used Alta Vista search UFO. Even 254 00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:42.160 then you would get hundreds of thousands of web pages. Now it's like eight 255 00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:47.839 or ten million, and so you know, there's an incredible amount of information. 256 00:18:47.960 --> 00:18:52.200 So my curiosity was met with just a lot of stuff, and it's 257 00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:53.480 like, how do you make sense of it? We have that problem in 258 00:18:53.480 --> 00:18:57.480 twenty nineteen, but in nineteen ninety six, I thought, Okay, you 259 00:18:57.519 --> 00:19:00.000 know, what what do we BELI leave, what do we not believe? 260 00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:03.839 You'd read the same story but see different versions of it, and then it 261 00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:06.440 was like, well, who do you want to believe? And so I 262 00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:10.720 made kind of what I considered the stupidest decision of my life, but it 263 00:19:10.759 --> 00:19:14.519 turned out to be the best decision I ever made. And I honestly thought 264 00:19:14.559 --> 00:19:18.200 to myself at the age of fifteen that if there was anybody or anything that 265 00:19:18.279 --> 00:19:21.680 was going to be honest about UFOs, it would be the United States government. 266 00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:25.759 And I thought that, and I learned about the Freedom of Information Act, 267 00:19:25.799 --> 00:19:27.759 and I thought, okay, let's just go after documents and see what's 268 00:19:27.799 --> 00:19:32.200 there. And that's what I did. I mean, I learned about the 269 00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:37.319 Freedom of Information Act, taught myself how to use it. Filed A one 270 00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:40.880 request was my original back in nineteen ninety six. It was for the nineteen 271 00:19:40.920 --> 00:19:45.200 seventy six, I ran incident document, not something I claimed to have found. 272 00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:48.039 This has been written about for many, many years prior to me. 273 00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:52.079 But I read about it and I thought, there's no way that this is 274 00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:56.759 real. There's absolutely no way. And so I filed that Foyer request and 275 00:19:56.920 --> 00:20:02.799 sure enough got the four page document word for word. It was exactly what 276 00:20:02.839 --> 00:20:06.000 I had read it to be, which honestly looked like it came out of 277 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:11.400 an X Files episode, let alone a US government agency. And so that 278 00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:14.839 was it. I was hooked. I mean I literally started filing for your 279 00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:19.160 requests five, ten, twenty, even forty fifty at a time where I 280 00:20:19.160 --> 00:20:23.759 would just you know, push them out there looking for documents before I go. 281 00:20:25.039 --> 00:20:29.119 Can I just ask you sure? Because I hadn't heard about for you, 282 00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:33.240 yeah, like maybe ten years ago or something, and not about UFOs, 283 00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:37.880 but something else. How did you know that at that age? Yeah? 284 00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:41.319 It was literally something I read on the internet, and it was the 285 00:20:42.319 --> 00:20:48.319 only document that they really had profiled was the nineteen seventy six Randons in a 286 00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:52.039 document, and they said, if if you don't believe that this is legitimate, 287 00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:55.599 you can use this thing called the Freedom of Information Act and I thought, 288 00:20:55.599 --> 00:20:56.960 well, you know what is that? I was like you, I'm 289 00:20:57.000 --> 00:21:00.640 like, I've never heard of that, but hey, they're going to send 290 00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:03.279 me something for free? Why not? And how the law is written, 291 00:21:03.319 --> 00:21:06.559 there is a lot you can get for free, but there's also a lot 292 00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:08.559 you might have to pay for. That's a long story in itself, but 293 00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:12.160 that's the nutshell. And so that was how I learned about it. And 294 00:21:12.240 --> 00:21:18.119 honestly, I was filing Freedom of Information Act requests before I really understood how 295 00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:22.359 to use it. Now there's the basic fundamentals of it, and that's you 296 00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:26.319 know, the in a nutshell, you request information, you should get it 297 00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:29.559 unless it fits into nine exemption categories boom, boom, cut and dry. 298 00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:33.119 Unfortunately it doesn't quite work that way, but that's the basic principle of it. 299 00:21:33.400 --> 00:21:38.119 So I was filing for your request not really understanding the type of games 300 00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:42.200 that the government would play back. And as a fifteen year old kid, 301 00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:48.039 I had to learn very quickly that agencies like the CIA and the NSA and 302 00:21:48.079 --> 00:21:51.319 the FBI, they didn't want to hear from me, even though I was 303 00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:56.640 exercising my right. They wanted me to go away. And you know, 304 00:21:56.680 --> 00:22:00.160 here we are twenty two years later, I've collected about two million pages on 305 00:22:00.200 --> 00:22:04.200 the Black Vault dot com now, and it's something that I probably won't stop 306 00:22:04.240 --> 00:22:08.640 anytime soon. Wow. You know, I was just talking during the you 307 00:22:08.680 --> 00:22:14.000 know, during the monologue. How you know this show costs me money? 308 00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:18.400 You know with bandwidth? Um, you know, just from from people listening 309 00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:23.799 to my podcasts. Um, so this your website has to cost you money 310 00:22:23.799 --> 00:22:29.599 with all that. Yeah, it's it's a lot. Um. The website 311 00:22:29.599 --> 00:22:33.200 itself is I mean, I I've got it across a couple dedicated servers that 312 00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:37.759 are just for the Black Vault. Yeah, and there's uh, there's quite 313 00:22:37.799 --> 00:22:42.960 a few hundred gigabytes of data alone. The bandwidth is in the terrabytes that 314 00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:48.920 gets downloaded every month. The unique people like the unique visitors, not hits 315 00:22:48.920 --> 00:22:52.720 because people over inflate hits, but the actual people that sit down and log 316 00:22:52.759 --> 00:22:57.079 onto the Black Vault is about fifteen to twenty thousand people every twenty four hours, 317 00:22:57.839 --> 00:23:02.599 um. And you know they generate literally a half a million to a 318 00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:06.640 million hits per day on the web server. So it is an incredibly busy 319 00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:10.880 box of people downloading not only UFO information, but I mean, you name 320 00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:14.759 a government secret, I've probably gone after it in one way or the other. 321 00:23:14.960 --> 00:23:21.000 Yeah, does the space support itself? I mean with all that, 322 00:23:21.319 --> 00:23:25.839 sadly there's not a whole lot of money in giving information away. That the 323 00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:30.039 site is free and I'm proud of that that, you know, it doesn't 324 00:23:30.039 --> 00:23:33.720 cost you a thing. As with most Internet websites, there's advertisements, but 325 00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:37.400 sadly you don't make a whole lot of money from that. If the industry 326 00:23:37.480 --> 00:23:41.279 was the same as it was twenty years ago, I'd be retired. But 327 00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:42.960 the industry is not the same anymore. And what I mean by that is 328 00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:48.119 advertising on the Internet was a lot more beneficial twenty years ago for people that 329 00:23:48.200 --> 00:23:52.480 had a lot of web traffic. But for every day and this is this 330 00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:56.279 is pretty much accurate. For every dollar you would make twenty years ago, 331 00:23:56.880 --> 00:24:00.240 you're lucky if you make a tenth of a penny now literally, And it 332 00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:04.359 is drastically different, so very variable. Yeah. But um, so this 333 00:24:04.359 --> 00:24:10.119 this is a work of passion. Um. There's no other there's no other 334 00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:14.200 word for it that I can that I can think of, because you're definitely 335 00:24:14.279 --> 00:24:18.759 not doing it to make money. Um. And it's such a great service 336 00:24:18.279 --> 00:24:22.640 to have this out there, and uh, I want to personally thank you 337 00:24:22.680 --> 00:24:26.920 for you know, letting these things be available and and uh, you know, 338 00:24:26.119 --> 00:24:30.720 and it's funny. I understand that also a lot of times people will 339 00:24:30.759 --> 00:24:34.839 stumble on your site and think that this is fresh and new and uh, 340 00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:37.279 you know, things that have been out for a long long time, but 341 00:24:37.359 --> 00:24:41.359 you have stored them on this uh in this database. It's great. Yeah, 342 00:24:41.440 --> 00:24:45.039 yeah, yeah, thank you. Yeah, I appreciate that. I 343 00:24:45.079 --> 00:24:48.079 was reading in your book where you said that you had some information I think 344 00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:53.400 it was um like a thousand pages or something that all of a sudden it 345 00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:56.599 went viral and you didn't expect it to happen, and then you were on 346 00:24:56.640 --> 00:25:00.920 the Today Show and a few other shows things like that. Yeah. Yeah, 347 00:25:00.960 --> 00:25:03.920 things happen all the time that are just unexpected. I mean, even 348 00:25:03.039 --> 00:25:07.559 last December I got not a UFO story, but it was documents that I 349 00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:12.720 literally fought years for when it came to getting them under the Freedom of Information 350 00:25:12.759 --> 00:25:18.039 Act. And it really showed me the lengths that government agencies will go to, 351 00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:22.359 and this specific case was the CIA to hide information. And what I've 352 00:25:22.440 --> 00:25:26.319 learned in twenty two years is you have to look at how they deal with 353 00:25:26.359 --> 00:25:32.599 other topics to kind of understand UFOs and vice versa. And you can learn 354 00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:37.839 a lot as you intermingle your research and multiple topics versus just focusing on one, 355 00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:41.920 because it's very easy to kind of fall into a pigeonhole of just assuming 356 00:25:42.519 --> 00:25:48.119 that you know what they're going to do about a particular topic. For me, 357 00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:52.359 I try and learn on how the different government agencies and again specifically the 358 00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:57.799 CIA and this example operate, and in this particular one, they literally bold 359 00:25:57.880 --> 00:26:03.359 faced told me something that was not true. I have it in writing, 360 00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:06.640 I have it on the telephone. I didn't record it, but I'm not 361 00:26:06.680 --> 00:26:08.839 allowed in the state of California. So for the CIA guys that are listening, 362 00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:12.119 I didn't record it, but it is in writing where they would tell 363 00:26:12.160 --> 00:26:17.440 me one thing and the documentation totally proved another. And for me, at 364 00:26:17.480 --> 00:26:18.960 the end of the day, it showed me that they were trying to make 365 00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:23.079 me go away. They never thought that I would raise money in the tune 366 00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:26.119 of four or five hundred dollars doesn't sound like a lot, but it adds 367 00:26:26.200 --> 00:26:30.240 up with the Freedom of Information actor when you're doing, you know, thousands 368 00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:33.599 of requests. So I don't think they thought it would get the popularity that 369 00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:37.640 it did, and Newsweek covered it, Vice News covered it before I ever 370 00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:41.079 even got the documents. They saw what the CIA was doing about mind control, 371 00:26:41.799 --> 00:26:48.960 and I crowdfunded there the entire amount in like forty eight hours and wrote 372 00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:55.079 them the check. And they continued playing games for months and months. But 373 00:26:55.160 --> 00:27:00.920 I finally got the documents last late November early December and posted all and it's 374 00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:03.039 amazing to see, but I think it's an important thing to look at again 375 00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:07.920 to understand the lengths that these intelligence agencies, these government agencies will go to 376 00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:11.119 to cover up things. Right. Well, we're right at our break, 377 00:27:11.480 --> 00:27:17.160 so everyone that's listening, please hang in there. We'll be right back right 378 00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:22.799 after these messages. All right, welcome back. My guest is John Greenwell 379 00:27:22.920 --> 00:27:26.160 Junior, and we were just we just left off. He was talking about 380 00:27:26.319 --> 00:27:32.519 the government actually did a bold face lie and the documents. Who was talking 381 00:27:32.559 --> 00:27:37.519 about was mind control. But John, so when I was reading a book 382 00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:41.759 and in part in there that I got kind of a kick out of that, 383 00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:44.160 you have a lot of evidence, I think you wrote somewhere in there, 384 00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:48.000 you have a lot of evidence that government does lie. Yeah, and 385 00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:52.160 with all these documents, are you seeing this like? Is this their m 386 00:27:52.440 --> 00:27:57.400 I mean, is it? Does it happen repeatedly? Sadly it happens repeatedly 387 00:27:57.559 --> 00:28:00.319 For many years. I did try and stay away from the L word. 388 00:28:00.359 --> 00:28:03.759 I tried to stop making the accusation and hey, the government is lying to 389 00:28:03.759 --> 00:28:07.599 you, you know, don't listen to them. And I don't want to 390 00:28:07.640 --> 00:28:10.880 start doing that now. But what I will say is you can't not say 391 00:28:10.920 --> 00:28:15.759 that they are. They are obviously misleading, and I think, even by 392 00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:21.279 their own admission, Roswell is a prime example of that. And when you 393 00:28:21.400 --> 00:28:25.920 look at the different stories that have come out, it's clear that they were 394 00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:30.680 trying to give a false narrative to the general public. And they change their 395 00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:33.000 story not once, not twice, not three times, but actually four different 396 00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:40.119 times on various versions of their story, all the way through their Project Mogul 397 00:28:40.200 --> 00:28:44.720 and test dummies and so on and so forth. For me, that to 398 00:28:44.839 --> 00:28:48.440 me shows that there is a Is it malicious, I'm not sure, but 399 00:28:48.480 --> 00:28:52.920 there is an intent to mislead the public just with the basic fundamentals of the 400 00:28:53.039 --> 00:29:00.359 UFO topic, and those basic fundamentals are including of Roswell in those early days 401 00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:03.240 of Project Bluebook and what happened. So, even though I don't want to 402 00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:07.960 say again they're lying to you, you can't get away from the fact there 403 00:29:07.039 --> 00:29:14.400 is something going on here that they have been caught misleading the public, and 404 00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:17.960 to be honest with you, their current explanations and this was the intent in 405 00:29:18.039 --> 00:29:23.240 the beginning of the book. The intent was to mislead the public. But 406 00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:29.200 the versions that they were using did not make sense. They did not hold 407 00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:33.359 up. You can fact check even their latest version and it is full of 408 00:29:33.400 --> 00:29:37.480 holes. They're better served to just let it go, stop talking about it, 409 00:29:37.759 --> 00:29:41.960 Let Kookie people like me try and research it, but stop trying to 410 00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:47.839 add to the story because by them doing that, in my opinion, it 411 00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:52.920 adds so much more mud to the water. But on the side that they 412 00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:56.759 are absolutely lying and that there is much more to just the Roswell's story than 413 00:29:56.799 --> 00:30:00.759 they want us to know, we can assume that. But when you look 414 00:30:00.759 --> 00:30:03.279 at the actual evidence you can put it in hardcore writing. That's exactly what's 415 00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:07.000 going on. They're trying to mislead. What exactly are they misleading about. 416 00:30:07.559 --> 00:30:11.559 I'm not real sure, but in the book I try to show you, 417 00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:15.279 Hey, look some of these most plausible explanations, they can't be true. 418 00:30:15.759 --> 00:30:18.279 Yeah, you know, I've said this a number of time, probably times 419 00:30:18.279 --> 00:30:21.960 on the show. Maybe the listeners might get sick of me saying it. 420 00:30:22.119 --> 00:30:29.160 But if there was no if nothing happened at Roswell, first of all, 421 00:30:29.240 --> 00:30:33.039 for the Army Air Force to say that they found a crash disc, all 422 00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:37.440 they had to do is say nothing, never say anything about it at all. 423 00:30:37.480 --> 00:30:41.599 And I think that is that's a big puzzle to me why they even 424 00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:44.279 came out with that in the first place. I mean, it doesn't really 425 00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:48.000 make any sense. Only a handful of people knew about it, and I 426 00:30:48.079 --> 00:30:52.599 just don't know why they even came out with it to begin with. I 427 00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:56.799 think that they had to address it in fairness. I mean, in nineteen 428 00:30:56.880 --> 00:31:00.319 forty seven, there was you have to think about the time frame where post 429 00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:03.440 World War Two only by a couple of years. There was a lot of 430 00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:07.440 fear that there were foreign threats that could potentially reach US soil. There was 431 00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:11.720 a lot of fear and panic about what the UFO situation, whatever it was, 432 00:31:11.359 --> 00:31:17.160 really was, so we needed to address it as a country. I 433 00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:19.279 think though, by an attempt of doing that when they quote unquote got a 434 00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:25.240 flying saucer crashed in Roswell. They put their foot in their mouth because all 435 00:31:25.319 --> 00:31:29.920 of a sudden, people were starting to realize this was not the right story. 436 00:31:30.039 --> 00:31:33.359 Things were fishy. Flying saucers reported crashed. Then days later, no, 437 00:31:33.480 --> 00:31:37.319 it's a weather balloon. Then many many years later, No, it's 438 00:31:37.359 --> 00:31:41.599 a top secret project Mogul balloon. The aliens that so many people had come 439 00:31:41.680 --> 00:31:47.000 forward seeing the bodies and this, and that they explained by a crash test 440 00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:49.200 dummies. I don't want to give the illusion that the whole book is about 441 00:31:49.240 --> 00:31:52.839 Roswell. I only do it in the beginning of the book, but it's 442 00:31:52.839 --> 00:31:57.680 to show that how ludicrous the explanation is and how they addressed the bodies were 443 00:31:57.680 --> 00:32:01.440 a couple different ways. They said that they were crashed air Force test dummies 444 00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:08.359 that they were using to test parachute systems, and also two aircraft accidents in 445 00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:15.559 which multiple Airforce pilots were either injured or killed. But the problem was is 446 00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:20.559 that Roswell happened in forty seven. The earliest crash test dummy was not invented 447 00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:24.160 until nineteen forty nine by Alderson Research Labs. I was the earliest one that 448 00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:28.519 I could ever find, and that is documented as being the first. Then 449 00:32:28.559 --> 00:32:34.480 those air Force incidents in which pilots were used to explain the quote unquote alien 450 00:32:34.519 --> 00:32:38.799 bodies were both nine and twelve years after Roswell happened. So it's like, 451 00:32:38.839 --> 00:32:45.039 how do you have these time traveling crash test dummies and time traveling aircraft, 452 00:32:45.079 --> 00:32:47.799 you know, air Force aircraft that traveled back in time crash. That's what 453 00:32:47.880 --> 00:32:53.039 people saw. The government essentially was saying that the witnesses had their dates wrong, 454 00:32:53.319 --> 00:32:59.359 but this was the explanation. So what I call all of that is 455 00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:02.160 the company line in the book, and I revert back to that throughout the 456 00:33:02.359 --> 00:33:07.920 entire book, from cover to cover as the company line, because this is 457 00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:13.279 what the government wants you to believe. They address two things, the Roswell 458 00:33:13.319 --> 00:33:16.920 incident and then the UFO phenomenon as a whole. Roswell they feel that they've 459 00:33:16.920 --> 00:33:22.000 explained, but I think we can kind of determine that their current explanations fairly 460 00:33:22.039 --> 00:33:25.839 bunk. But then they try to explain the UFO phenomenon as a whole, 461 00:33:27.079 --> 00:33:32.319 and by doing that they bring up Project Blue Book twelve six hundred eighteen cases 462 00:33:32.359 --> 00:33:37.640 that they investigated only seven hundred and one remained unidentified, and the only reason 463 00:33:37.720 --> 00:33:42.200 those were unidentified was lack of evidence. So what I do in the book 464 00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:45.960 is then destroy that. Is that I go in and show the fact that 465 00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:50.359 Project Blue Book was not an investigation, and there's a lot of evidence to 466 00:33:50.440 --> 00:33:54.880 support multiple different angles on why Blue Book was not a real investigation, but 467 00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:59.640 I essentially destroy that also, and all I use is their own documents. 468 00:33:59.680 --> 00:34:06.079 I don't use any whistleblower testimony, no leaked documents. While I have a 469 00:34:06.079 --> 00:34:09.599 gut feeling that this is true, nothing All I do is use exactly what 470 00:34:09.639 --> 00:34:15.599 they gave me under the Freedom of Information Act to destroy that company line and 471 00:34:15.639 --> 00:34:17.960 the rest of the book, I get away from that and just focus in 472 00:34:19.159 --> 00:34:23.079 on the reality of what is the UFO phenomenon using their own documents, And 473 00:34:23.119 --> 00:34:27.559 to be honest with you, even when I started this twenty two years ago, 474 00:34:27.920 --> 00:34:30.280 I never thought I would amass the amount of information that I have, 475 00:34:31.039 --> 00:34:36.519 But doing the book allowed me to really concentrate and bring it all together and 476 00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:39.800 look at documents that I had not seen for years and years, to look 477 00:34:39.800 --> 00:34:45.239 at them again and see how damning the evidence really is when it comes to 478 00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:50.000 proving a cover up, but then also showing the UFO phenomenon is very real, 479 00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:52.920 And then on top of all of that, how it's not as easily 480 00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:58.400 explainable as many skeptics want us to believe. Right right now, I heard 481 00:34:58.440 --> 00:35:05.440 you say on another show that the longest you have waited for a four year 482 00:35:05.519 --> 00:35:09.039 request was fourteen years, which is amazing. So I want to just ask 483 00:35:09.079 --> 00:35:14.360 you, do you have to keep following up or do you put in the 484 00:35:14.440 --> 00:35:17.840 requests and time goes by and all of a sudden one day you forgot all 485 00:35:17.840 --> 00:35:21.320 about a bit of pops in the mail? Well, how does that work? 486 00:35:21.760 --> 00:35:24.039 Kind of both? Do you have to keep on top of it? 487 00:35:24.119 --> 00:35:28.639 Technically? No, once you're in the system, they should respond to you. 488 00:35:29.239 --> 00:35:31.719 My record was fourteen and a half years, as you noted, and 489 00:35:32.519 --> 00:35:36.159 that's a long time to wait. I wrote an article when I got the 490 00:35:36.199 --> 00:35:39.000 document finally, not based on what the document was about, but what happened 491 00:35:39.039 --> 00:35:43.039 on the planet in the fourteen and a half years that I waited for that 492 00:35:43.079 --> 00:35:45.199 document to come. Yeah, And it was just more of a humorous look 493 00:35:45.199 --> 00:35:47.760 at how long they make you wait, And that's part of the game in 494 00:35:47.800 --> 00:35:52.480 my opinion that I think that they want people to lose interest, which I'm 495 00:35:52.480 --> 00:35:55.440 sure a lot of people do. The Freedom of Information Act is mainly utilized 496 00:35:55.440 --> 00:36:00.199 by journalists, So if you're and I say mainly, I mean I don't 497 00:36:00.199 --> 00:36:02.800 know what the exact percentages are. But if you're writing a story or an 498 00:36:02.800 --> 00:36:07.719 expose on UFOs and you file Foyer requests, you have a deadline, and 499 00:36:07.760 --> 00:36:10.400 your deadline is not fourteen and a half years to the future. So a 500 00:36:10.400 --> 00:36:15.079 lot of times then the documents become irrelevant. So it's all part of the 501 00:36:15.119 --> 00:36:17.440 game. Sadly, they want people to go away, they want people to 502 00:36:17.480 --> 00:36:22.079 lose interest. They've had a growing knack of after a couple of years, 503 00:36:22.440 --> 00:36:27.360 instead of you checking in with them, they will check in with you and 504 00:36:27.400 --> 00:36:30.800 they will say, Okay, Martin, are you still interested in this document 505 00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:34.079 because it's been three years since you've requested it. If we don't hear from 506 00:36:34.119 --> 00:36:36.280 you in thirty days, we're just going to go ahead and close your case. 507 00:36:36.719 --> 00:36:38.840 So then you're forced to stay on top of it. Now they're not 508 00:36:38.880 --> 00:36:43.840 actually legally able to do that. They're actually fighting it in the courts, 509 00:36:43.840 --> 00:36:46.079 and I believe that they've actually already won that. Government agencies are not allowed 510 00:36:46.119 --> 00:36:49.920 to do it, but they still do it. And in fact, one 511 00:36:49.960 --> 00:36:55.000 I posted on Twitter this week was where they three years ago asked me if 512 00:36:55.000 --> 00:36:59.719 I was still interested in the document. They wrote that about two or three 513 00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:04.559 years after I originally filed the request. Fast forward another three years to this 514 00:37:04.599 --> 00:37:07.199 week, they did the exact same thing, are you still interested? So 515 00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:13.599 now I'm like six years or so in to waiting for this document to come, 516 00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:15.679 and they keep asking, and honestly, I mean, I hate to 517 00:37:15.679 --> 00:37:19.519 be morbid about it, but it's like they just want you to go away 518 00:37:19.559 --> 00:37:22.639 and die, you know, like they're just waiting for that day that John 519 00:37:22.679 --> 00:37:25.599 Greenwald is not around anymore to answer this. And that's sad not to be 520 00:37:25.639 --> 00:37:30.360 morbid, but I mean it's it's humorous, but not. It's like, 521 00:37:30.440 --> 00:37:34.880 why wait this long, Stop spending the effort trying to see if I'm still 522 00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:38.400 interested, and just process it. And my responses are always the same to 523 00:37:38.440 --> 00:37:44.440 these agencies. I never lose interest in any of my requests, and I'm 524 00:37:44.480 --> 00:37:46.440 interested because you know I've filed a request. I'm not going to lose the 525 00:37:46.440 --> 00:37:50.519 interest, so please process it accordingly, And they still do it, same 526 00:37:50.559 --> 00:37:52.639 exact request a couple of years go by, they'll try it again, and 527 00:37:52.960 --> 00:37:57.519 you know, thankfully I'm still alive at this point. Knock on wood. 528 00:37:58.400 --> 00:38:00.760 But but yeah, as I get older, and not again, not to 529 00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:04.920 be morbid, but as I get older, there will become an age where 530 00:38:04.960 --> 00:38:08.119 I file a Fourier request to go. I wonder if I am going to 531 00:38:08.199 --> 00:38:12.239 be alive by the time that they respond to this thing, because if you're 532 00:38:12.239 --> 00:38:15.559 waiting a decade and a half, a lot can happen in a decade and 533 00:38:15.559 --> 00:38:19.119 a half. And even though it's morbid to think about, it's all part 534 00:38:19.159 --> 00:38:22.000 of the game that they want to play. Isn't that something now? Because 535 00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:25.360 of that? Because of what you do, do you think you're on any 536 00:38:25.360 --> 00:38:30.320 type of I know this sounds a little conspiratorial, but I do think you're 537 00:38:30.320 --> 00:38:34.119 on any type of watch list of any kind, or you know, they're 538 00:38:34.159 --> 00:38:37.880 just paying attention to you because of what you're asking for. I'm not sure 539 00:38:38.079 --> 00:38:44.320 how. The official answer is no. According to the government, I have 540 00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:47.000 filed a fourier request to the FBI for my own file. Was one of 541 00:38:47.000 --> 00:38:51.639 the quickest responses I ever got. They said, there's nothing there. Maybe 542 00:38:51.719 --> 00:38:55.840 other agencies are paying attention and investigating who knows. But for me, I 543 00:38:57.400 --> 00:39:02.280 think that I struggle with thinking about this. Is it scarier that I'm doing 544 00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:07.719 what I'm doing for twenty two years, starting as a teenager, posting millions 545 00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:10.960 of documents on the Internet for everyone to download around the world for free, 546 00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:15.840 and they're looking into that because they're scared or what's scarier I'm doing all that, 547 00:39:16.039 --> 00:39:21.079 and that they aren't looking into me, that they aren't caring about what 548 00:39:21.119 --> 00:39:23.639 I'm doing. So part of me is I hope they do care. To 549 00:39:23.719 --> 00:39:30.119 a point, I'm not a Julian Assange. I don't take government documents in 550 00:39:30.239 --> 00:39:32.880 a dark alley and post them for the world to see. That's not mymo. 551 00:39:34.440 --> 00:39:37.159 But I would hope that they're concerned about that, and I would welcome 552 00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:39.400 that scrutiny. I'm not concerned about it at all. I got nothing to 553 00:39:39.480 --> 00:39:44.559 hide, and I do what I do legally, and I do it respectfully 554 00:39:44.639 --> 00:39:50.559 as respectfully as I can. Anyway, Now, would you know this kind 555 00:39:50.559 --> 00:39:57.039 of a question you probably probably shouldn't ask this early into the show, But 556 00:39:58.800 --> 00:40:02.239 do you have out of those two million documents to have I don't want to 557 00:40:02.239 --> 00:40:08.280 say smoking gun, but close to smoking gun records that you found like really 558 00:40:08.280 --> 00:40:13.000 really compelling when you got them in the mail. I think that the smoking 559 00:40:13.039 --> 00:40:16.559 gun for me is the overall picture. It's the overall way that the United 560 00:40:16.599 --> 00:40:22.239 States government deals with the issue. I think it's the overall way they deny 561 00:40:22.480 --> 00:40:28.760 interest in the issue. That the government documents completely contradict what I call again 562 00:40:28.840 --> 00:40:31.679 that company line. To me, that is more of the smoking gun. 563 00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:37.519 But one of the things that I talk about briefly in the book is what 564 00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:42.159 is your definition of a smoking gun? And one thing that I've learned in 565 00:40:42.599 --> 00:40:45.400 twenty two years, and I have a lot of fun doing shows like this 566 00:40:45.519 --> 00:40:51.840 and speaking to the public, is everybody has their own definition of what a 567 00:40:51.920 --> 00:40:55.519 smoking gun is. For some people, it is the documents and the overall 568 00:40:55.639 --> 00:41:00.320 arc of the story and how the government deals with At other times, people 569 00:41:00.320 --> 00:41:04.440 want the smoking gun that says we have alien bodies, period, and then 570 00:41:04.480 --> 00:41:07.400 that's it, and that's the smoking gun. For others, it's just testimony, 571 00:41:07.639 --> 00:41:12.239 you know, evidence, be darned. It's so and so x y 572 00:41:12.400 --> 00:41:15.559 Z says ABC, and that's enough for them. So I've learned that the 573 00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:21.400 smoking gun is very, very different for everybody. So not to be long 574 00:41:21.440 --> 00:41:22.639 winded, with you, but just to kind of give a background and what 575 00:41:22.679 --> 00:41:25.840 I feel about what that smoking gun is. But I feel that there are 576 00:41:25.880 --> 00:41:31.159 a lot of documents that drive home the length of how far the government will 577 00:41:31.199 --> 00:41:36.800 go to. One of my personal favorites is Air Force Manual ten DASH two 578 00:41:36.880 --> 00:41:40.039 zero six. And what this was was a fine that I made back in 579 00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:46.840 about two thousand and two thousand and one on accident researching present day UFO reporting 580 00:41:46.880 --> 00:41:52.760 procedures. And what I was amazed at was that hidden in plane sight was 581 00:41:52.760 --> 00:41:58.960 this Air Force Manual ten DASH two zero six, an unclassified document that instructed 582 00:41:59.079 --> 00:42:05.480 all Air Force pilots to report UFOs as they see them, and that the 583 00:42:06.639 --> 00:42:09.719 following this manual was mandatory. So this wasn't a well, if you feel 584 00:42:09.719 --> 00:42:15.239 like it's important, No, it was said verbatim, compliance with this regulation 585 00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:20.719 is mandatory, and so that that meant that it was a very serious topic. 586 00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:25.039 Chapter five was devoted to the UFO topic. Now I had reported this, 587 00:42:25.239 --> 00:42:29.199 um you know, on my website on the Black Vault dot com, 588 00:42:29.239 --> 00:42:31.840 but also through a history channel. I do a lot of work in television 589 00:42:31.840 --> 00:42:36.480 as a producer and writer, and we worked it into I believe too total 590 00:42:36.840 --> 00:42:39.519 history Channel documentaries. It was a very important part of those stories, but 591 00:42:39.599 --> 00:42:44.880 I didn't feel that it got the spotlight it deserved because in there and there's 592 00:42:44.880 --> 00:42:47.079 a lot of speculation out there on whether or not the government has hidden for 593 00:42:47.119 --> 00:42:53.000 many years UFOs or unidentified flying objects as an acronym, that they shield it 594 00:42:53.159 --> 00:42:57.800 under something else. Well, this was proof that they don't do that. 595 00:42:57.920 --> 00:43:01.159 It said unidentified flying object black and white. There was no hiding anything. 596 00:43:01.800 --> 00:43:06.880 And so when the Huffington Post, namely Lee Spiegel, who was working for 597 00:43:06.920 --> 00:43:10.000 them at the time, he had contacted me about doing a story on the 598 00:43:10.039 --> 00:43:15.840 top five best documents that I had received about UFOs. This was one of 599 00:43:15.920 --> 00:43:17.840 five that I had given him. I think it stuck out to him because 600 00:43:17.840 --> 00:43:23.239 it was irrefutable. It showed that the government agency that was leading the company 601 00:43:23.280 --> 00:43:29.039 line, I mean they literally created the company line that they said they had 602 00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:34.599 no interest in UFOs. They have a reporting procedure on reporting UFOs, right, 603 00:43:34.679 --> 00:43:37.159 Like, you can't get any more ridiculous than that as a contradiction. 604 00:43:37.599 --> 00:43:44.039 And so he called the Pentagon for some type of a response. They he 605 00:43:44.159 --> 00:43:46.119 left a message, he didn't get one. Well, journalists have deadlines, 606 00:43:46.519 --> 00:43:50.960 and I remember fast forward the story a few days. He called me late 607 00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:53.000 on a Friday night. I was visiting my sister and he calls me on 608 00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:54.800 the telephone. He say, John, you're not going to believe this. 609 00:43:54.880 --> 00:43:59.440 And I said what And he says air Force Manuel Tends two zero six, 610 00:43:59.519 --> 00:44:01.079 Chapter five. I said yeah. He says it's gone. Yeah. I 611 00:44:01.119 --> 00:44:06.119 said, what are you talking about? And he had I had showed him 612 00:44:06.119 --> 00:44:08.800 how to download it on the internet, because when I had discovered it in 613 00:44:08.920 --> 00:44:13.519 two thousand, it was not online. Through the years that had gone online. 614 00:44:14.159 --> 00:44:16.280 Another key point of this, it was revised many years and I am 615 00:44:16.320 --> 00:44:21.559 able to prove that it's documented, but UFOs never came out. When Huffington 616 00:44:21.639 --> 00:44:23.679 Post and Lee Spiegel was making phone calls, I said, look, you 617 00:44:23.719 --> 00:44:27.360 could take my word for it, but let me show you an Air Force 618 00:44:27.400 --> 00:44:30.679 sight to download this from. That's what he was using. And when he 619 00:44:30.719 --> 00:44:35.199 goes to fact check, something goes to download it. Chapter five was rewritten, 620 00:44:35.360 --> 00:44:39.039 completely gone, and it had something to do with now hurricanes. And 621 00:44:39.079 --> 00:44:40.920 so when he called me, I just thought, I mean, I love 622 00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:43.760 Lee. I've been friends with him for years, so I mean, no 623 00:44:43.840 --> 00:44:45.559 disrespect, But I thought, you know what, probably clicked on the wrong 624 00:44:45.639 --> 00:44:49.559 lane. He didn't know where he was going or whatever, you know, 625 00:44:50.079 --> 00:44:52.760 And I got home, and you know, I was amazed to see that 626 00:44:52.840 --> 00:44:57.679 they covered it up. They changed the manual. The revision date was about 627 00:44:57.760 --> 00:45:02.280 forty eight hours or so af Lee's original phone call, which means that the 628 00:45:02.440 --> 00:45:07.840 minute a major mainstream media outlet was going to spotlight it, yeah and show 629 00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:12.440 this was irrefutable proof, they made a poof go away. I call it 630 00:45:12.519 --> 00:45:15.039 the greatest trick of a magician. And it's like, look at my right 631 00:45:15.039 --> 00:45:17.440 hand, so you don't know what the left hand is doing, and the 632 00:45:17.519 --> 00:45:21.800 left hand was trying very very hard to get rid of the evidence. They 633 00:45:21.880 --> 00:45:24.599 did. Then Lee gets a call back and apparently they tried to claim it 634 00:45:24.639 --> 00:45:30.679 was a coincidence or something like that. But for me, that showed irrefutable 635 00:45:30.920 --> 00:45:35.559 proof that number one, they are interested in UFOs decades after Bluebook, but 636 00:45:35.679 --> 00:45:37.480 number two, they'll go to great lengths to cover it up, that the 637 00:45:37.559 --> 00:45:42.360 minute we were allowed to put this in front of the general public and go 638 00:45:42.559 --> 00:45:45.840 see this is something worthwhile, they just made it all go away and say, 639 00:45:45.920 --> 00:45:49.320 yeah, well we weren't really interested in it, and so on and 640 00:45:49.360 --> 00:45:52.599 so forth. It was all a coincidence we were planning on taking it away. 641 00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:55.920 And going back to my quick note about the fact that it was revised, 642 00:45:57.519 --> 00:46:00.239 why that is important is it shows that it was not a dead publication, 643 00:46:00.880 --> 00:46:07.559 that it was not forgotten about. It was actively revised through the years 644 00:46:07.599 --> 00:46:10.800 after me finding it, and UFOs was never taken out. And the reason 645 00:46:10.840 --> 00:46:15.719 why that's important is it shows that they had ample opportunity to do just that 646 00:46:16.519 --> 00:46:20.599 until someone was going to spotlight it the major media, and then they made 647 00:46:20.599 --> 00:46:23.519 it go away. Yeah, that's something. Well, to be fair to 648 00:46:23.559 --> 00:46:27.760 what you said earlier, Lee is rather technically challenged. I mean, he 649 00:46:27.840 --> 00:46:34.039 just graduated from a flip phone recently to an iPhone and I hope he's listening, 650 00:46:34.880 --> 00:46:37.800 but yeah, he told me that. He told me that story, 651 00:46:38.119 --> 00:46:42.840 and I just thought that was amazing. I have actually on my website, 652 00:46:42.840 --> 00:46:45.800 I have that document. You know that that showed that. But yeah, 653 00:46:45.800 --> 00:46:51.480 that that whole thing to me. I vaguely remember you being part of the 654 00:46:51.480 --> 00:46:53.639 other one who actually found it, and you know that is a great, 655 00:46:53.719 --> 00:46:59.400 great document. O. There some other We're gonna break in about five minutes 656 00:46:59.400 --> 00:47:05.719 here, there's some other really compelling situations like that. Or as far as 657 00:47:05.719 --> 00:47:10.679 I'm trying to vanish something or does it all just eventually trickle out, you 658 00:47:10.719 --> 00:47:15.840 know, the unclassified stuff. Yeah, now that they're an indirect way, 659 00:47:15.880 --> 00:47:21.079 I would say it's very similar. Under the Freedom of Information Act, there's 660 00:47:21.079 --> 00:47:24.639 a thing called mandatory declassification review. Now I bring this up just to give 661 00:47:24.679 --> 00:47:29.800 a quick context that under the Freedom of Information Act, let's say you requested 662 00:47:29.880 --> 00:47:34.599 something in nineteen ninety, they release a blacked out version. If for the 663 00:47:34.639 --> 00:47:38.440 next twenty years people are requesting that same document through the Freedom of Information Act, 664 00:47:38.800 --> 00:47:45.400 they will release that original nineteen ninety version with all the redactions until someone 665 00:47:45.480 --> 00:47:50.400 requests a mandatory declassification review. The minute that happens, they have to go 666 00:47:50.480 --> 00:47:54.079 back and re review the information that they blacked out. Now this is important 667 00:47:54.119 --> 00:48:00.840 because what's not excuse me, what's classified in nineteen ninety is not necessarily classified 668 00:48:00.840 --> 00:48:05.599 in two fifteen or twenty nineteen. So what I did was I collected all 669 00:48:05.599 --> 00:48:08.960 the UFO documents from all the big intelligence agencies. Then I went back and 670 00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:16.119 requested mandatory declassification reviews on what I had received years prior, which means they 671 00:48:16.119 --> 00:48:21.599 have to go back and re review all that blacked out material. There is 672 00:48:21.599 --> 00:48:23.599 a lot you can read in these documents, but there's a lot you can't. 673 00:48:23.639 --> 00:48:29.000 It's classified all the way through to the top secret level. It's considered 674 00:48:29.039 --> 00:48:32.719 highly classified. And two agencies I'll bring up here the National Security Agency and 675 00:48:32.960 --> 00:48:37.920 the Defense Intelligence Agency. The reason why I bring those up is that their 676 00:48:37.039 --> 00:48:43.920 UFO documents span well into the two thousands and again show a very high level 677 00:48:43.920 --> 00:48:50.480 of classification, including top secret. So I requested a mandatory declassification review from 678 00:48:50.519 --> 00:48:53.239 We'll deal with the NSA first. They have, off the top of my 679 00:48:53.239 --> 00:48:58.320 head, maybe three or four hundred or so documents, mostly what are called 680 00:48:58.679 --> 00:49:04.519 Comment Report c I NT or Communications Intelligence. They talk about UFOs, but 681 00:49:04.599 --> 00:49:07.320 the majority of them were blacked out. You can only read like four or 682 00:49:07.360 --> 00:49:10.880 five six words on the entire page. Doing an MDR makes them go back 683 00:49:10.920 --> 00:49:15.360 and re review it. Wouldn't you know that the NSA, after they processed 684 00:49:15.360 --> 00:49:19.960 my request, it took like two years, if I remember, they could 685 00:49:19.960 --> 00:49:24.280 not find a single document that dealt with UFOs that they had released years prior 686 00:49:24.480 --> 00:49:29.639 that was not blacked out. According to them, they blacked out the originals, 687 00:49:29.679 --> 00:49:30.760 or in their case, they wided it out. Makes it a lot 688 00:49:30.840 --> 00:49:37.760 less sinister looking and shredded the originals or lost the originals or got rid of 689 00:49:37.800 --> 00:49:40.719 them, or you know, fill in the blank. But they didn't have 690 00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:45.480 them anymore. So for me, it wasn't the lie on the cover up. 691 00:49:45.599 --> 00:49:49.039 It was an oops. It was we don't have these anymore because we 692 00:49:49.119 --> 00:49:53.039 made a pretty big blunder and all of these documents are gone. They said 693 00:49:53.039 --> 00:49:58.440 that they did find what's called the Yates Affidavid, which is the top secret 694 00:49:58.480 --> 00:50:05.079 court affidavit that was given during the Citizens Against UFO Secrecy v. NSA court 695 00:50:05.079 --> 00:50:08.400 case in the late nineteen seventies early nineteen eighties, where under the Freedom of 696 00:50:08.440 --> 00:50:13.480 Information Act they were trying to get those comment reports out. They did find 697 00:50:13.519 --> 00:50:16.360 that and they gave me a less redacted version, but sadly, they claimed 698 00:50:16.360 --> 00:50:22.400 that they lost all of those UFO documents. The Defense Intelligence Agency did the 699 00:50:22.440 --> 00:50:29.880 exact same thing. They claimed that they lost all of their UFO information and 700 00:50:29.960 --> 00:50:35.079 can't find it. Now, the likelihood of a intelligence agency like the NSA, 701 00:50:35.320 --> 00:50:38.519 especially in the digital age, to just lose all that information. You 702 00:50:38.559 --> 00:50:42.079 know, a lot of it's been digitized. It doesn't matter if it was 703 00:50:42.119 --> 00:50:45.480 written before computers and scanners existed, or that they were being utilized. A 704 00:50:45.519 --> 00:50:49.679 lot of that information has been digitized. For them to say that they lost 705 00:50:49.719 --> 00:50:53.199 it, the chances of that are pretty nil. Adding a second intelligence agency, 706 00:50:53.960 --> 00:50:58.400 in my opinion, that's a blatant cover up. It's a blatant attempt 707 00:50:58.480 --> 00:51:02.000 to get people like me to go away because now there is nothing that I 708 00:51:02.039 --> 00:51:07.559 can do to fight for those UFO documents, because now their official line is 709 00:51:07.599 --> 00:51:12.599 that they are one percent destroyed. Now, I remember reading in your book, 710 00:51:12.639 --> 00:51:15.679 we only we have just like a minute and a half here reading in 711 00:51:15.679 --> 00:51:22.440 your book where you had received a no, no, such documents, they 712 00:51:22.440 --> 00:51:27.800 don't exist and all that. And then the very same person that said that 713 00:51:27.960 --> 00:51:31.559 to you actually released a whole bunch of UFO documents. Yeah, ironically, 714 00:51:31.599 --> 00:51:37.159 I read about it at UFO magazine, Bill Burns's publication. I was writing 715 00:51:37.159 --> 00:51:39.719 for him at the time. And yeah, the quick summary of the story 716 00:51:39.800 --> 00:51:45.679 is, I requested UFO documents from Wright Patterson Air Force Base. They claim 717 00:51:45.880 --> 00:51:49.239 we have nothing. It got transferred over to the National Archives. All of 718 00:51:49.280 --> 00:51:52.000 that fits into their company line that everything is at the National Archives. Also 719 00:51:52.039 --> 00:51:58.159 another point that's not true. And then years later about a thousand pages mysteriously 720 00:51:58.159 --> 00:52:02.480 appeared and I read an article and the spokesperson that was quoted was the same 721 00:52:02.519 --> 00:52:08.840 guy that actually signed the original denial letter a couple of years prior. Now, 722 00:52:08.960 --> 00:52:12.800 Is it an oversight, was it a mistake? All of that is 723 00:52:12.840 --> 00:52:15.119 possible, But sadly, that's not how the Freedom of Information Act works. 724 00:52:15.400 --> 00:52:20.039 If they say they do a search, they need to by by under the 725 00:52:20.119 --> 00:52:22.679 law. If they're just doing it, you know, haphazardly, and they're 726 00:52:22.679 --> 00:52:27.880 not doing a complete search, that's a problem in itself. Right, Okay, 727 00:52:28.119 --> 00:52:30.599 we're at break. My guest is John Greenwall Junior, and we'll be 728 00:52:30.719 --> 00:52:36.079 right back right after these men. All right, welcome back on Martin Willis 729 00:52:36.119 --> 00:52:40.360 with Podcast UFO, and my guest is John Greenwal Junior. John, I'm 730 00:52:40.400 --> 00:52:44.760 going to open up the lines for anyone that likes to call in. That 731 00:52:44.880 --> 00:52:47.119 number will be up on the screen. And for those of you were at 732 00:52:47.159 --> 00:52:52.159 KGr A Radio, that number is six h three nine six seven four h 733 00:52:52.320 --> 00:52:55.639 three. Oh. That number is only live during the show only I get 734 00:52:55.679 --> 00:53:00.480 people calling it all the time. It's a Skype number, so we can 735 00:53:00.480 --> 00:53:05.920 take calls if someone would like to call in. So um as far as 736 00:53:06.159 --> 00:53:08.360 I think we got someone already. It looks like we do. Hold on 737 00:53:10.920 --> 00:53:15.480 caller, your first name and where are you calling from? My name is 738 00:53:15.639 --> 00:53:20.239 Dave Altsman. How are you doing Martin? Hi? Dave? How are 739 00:53:20.239 --> 00:53:23.159 you? I'm doing good? Hey, John? How are you doing? 740 00:53:23.440 --> 00:53:27.360 Hi? Dave? I'm good. How are you? Hey? So? 741 00:53:27.679 --> 00:53:31.599 I don't know if you remember, but I work with David O'Leary from Project 742 00:53:31.599 --> 00:53:37.480 blue Book, And yeah, yeah, I was trying, dude, I've 743 00:53:37.480 --> 00:53:40.599 been calling you furlier. Yeah, I've been calling you for months trying to 744 00:53:40.679 --> 00:53:45.880 get those see if you can get those pages for me. What pages are 745 00:53:45.880 --> 00:53:50.280 you talking about? Um? We were looking to get maybe a couple of 746 00:53:50.320 --> 00:53:54.800 the actual pages. Well obviously not the actual pages, but copies of some 747 00:53:54.880 --> 00:54:02.920 Bluebook pages. Okay, So are you solicit online tape? That's okay. 748 00:54:02.920 --> 00:54:07.960 I'm sorry if I missed a message from you. So, yeah, we 749 00:54:07.360 --> 00:54:13.400 had emailed. We had emailed back and forth. John Desusa hooked us up, 750 00:54:15.280 --> 00:54:17.079 okay. Uh, yeah, and then you asked me to call. 751 00:54:17.639 --> 00:54:20.639 Yeah, I'll be more than happy to look. I mean to be honest 752 00:54:20.679 --> 00:54:24.039 with you. Other blue Book stuff, uh is fairly open source online. 753 00:54:24.079 --> 00:54:28.639 I know that there's a couple of websites to get it from, but I'd 754 00:54:28.639 --> 00:54:30.679 be more than happy to send you a link if you want to. Yeah, 755 00:54:30.719 --> 00:54:35.559 every everywhere I went, I couldn't get him. And I talked to 756 00:54:35.599 --> 00:54:38.639 George Knapp and a bunch of other people, and everybody said, the guy 757 00:54:38.679 --> 00:54:43.440 you got to go to is John Greenwald. John Greenwald, Well, and 758 00:54:45.320 --> 00:54:51.519 yeah. We were at MegaCon and during David's m interview with George Knapp, 759 00:54:51.719 --> 00:54:54.280 he gave you a couple of shout outs. And we were out in the 760 00:54:54.920 --> 00:54:59.880 in the lounge afterwards, and some guy ran up and said, hey, 761 00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:02.599 hey, I'm talking to John Greenwald right now, and he wanted to say 762 00:55:02.679 --> 00:55:07.760 thanks for David giving a shout out for Black Walt during the interview. I 763 00:55:07.880 --> 00:55:10.119 heard about that. Yeah, and I said to the guy, give me 764 00:55:10.159 --> 00:55:14.800 that phone right now. I want to talk to John about the bluebook pages. 765 00:55:15.280 --> 00:55:17.840 And he goes, oh, it's just it's just on Messenger, and 766 00:55:17.880 --> 00:55:21.920 I said, okay, just tell them. I said, Hi, yeah, 767 00:55:22.079 --> 00:55:23.840 no, I'm sorry if I missed something, but I'll be Martin happy 768 00:55:23.880 --> 00:55:27.480 to point to the right direction. It's it's an interesting story, Martin. 769 00:55:27.519 --> 00:55:29.599 I don't know if you want me to get into it. I had all 770 00:55:29.599 --> 00:55:35.719 of the bluebook stuff posted for a little bit from here. I'm sorry robers 771 00:55:35.800 --> 00:55:37.719 here. No, no, no, that was something different, yeah, 772 00:55:37.840 --> 00:55:42.199 which is a very cool story and much cooler actually than this one. But 773 00:55:42.800 --> 00:55:46.400 the short of it is, uh, ancestry dot com tried to throw a 774 00:55:46.480 --> 00:55:51.920 copyright claim on the project that yea, yeah, it was a really bad 775 00:55:52.000 --> 00:55:55.039 debacle. And the only reason I bring that up is to say, uh, 776 00:55:55.079 --> 00:56:00.000 you know here on an open forum. I don't disseminate those documents because 777 00:56:00.360 --> 00:56:07.280 I was threatened to be sued, which is such a ridiculous story, so 778 00:56:07.320 --> 00:56:08.719 I was forced to bring them down. I don't believe that they had any 779 00:56:08.800 --> 00:56:12.880 right to do it, but it's ancestry dot com. They got a lot 780 00:56:12.920 --> 00:56:16.119 more money than I do, and they tried to lay a copyright claim on 781 00:56:16.159 --> 00:56:19.199 them. The only evidence they had, by the way, is because I 782 00:56:19.199 --> 00:56:22.440 gave them a special thanks and it wasn't ancestry dot com. It was a 783 00:56:22.440 --> 00:56:25.840 subsidiary they bought many many years ago. The only reason I'm bringing that up 784 00:56:27.320 --> 00:56:30.480 is I don't have a lot of those documents. I would just have to 785 00:56:30.480 --> 00:56:36.000 point you to those websites that are online, but I will I know your 786 00:56:36.039 --> 00:56:38.800 last name, so I'll search my email and I'll make sure I didn't miss 787 00:56:38.840 --> 00:56:42.719 anything, or if I did, I apologize, and then I'll drop you 788 00:56:42.760 --> 00:56:45.320 a line and you know, see if I can help you out or at 789 00:56:45.400 --> 00:56:47.519 least point you in the right direction. All right, If anyone else needs 790 00:56:47.519 --> 00:56:52.280 to get a hold of John, now is the time. Actually, we 791 00:56:52.400 --> 00:56:57.639 have another caller. Thanks for the call, Dave today. You're welcome. 792 00:56:57.639 --> 00:57:00.519 And I was also calling to say hi to you, Martin. Don't worry, 793 00:57:00.559 --> 00:57:04.840 Sophie Jealous, I know how Caddie. All right, all right, 794 00:57:04.920 --> 00:57:07.440 Dave, thanks, we got another caller on the line. Caller, what's 795 00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:15.400 your first name? Where are you calling from? Jude from British Columbia. 796 00:57:13.840 --> 00:57:17.239 I I can barely hear you, Jenia, if you speak up a little 797 00:57:17.280 --> 00:57:22.159 bit, Martin, Yeah, Martin High. I'm sorry for being a bad 798 00:57:22.199 --> 00:57:23.880 caller in the past. I'm going to try to be a good caller now. 799 00:57:23.880 --> 00:57:28.840 And I have a good question for John. John. I went to 800 00:57:28.880 --> 00:57:37.519 your site and I searched for very specifically these handwritten pages done by the World 801 00:57:37.519 --> 00:57:42.480 War Two pilots of their food fighter sightings. Okay, I've seen a few 802 00:57:42.519 --> 00:57:49.800 of them. They're excellent. Do you have those. It doesn't sound familiar 803 00:57:49.840 --> 00:57:52.639 though. It sounds like that that might be more in the Project blue Book 804 00:57:52.639 --> 00:57:54.800 collection given the time frame, because most of that stuff wound up in the 805 00:57:55.599 --> 00:58:00.960 Project Blue Book Collection, which is s made it to be anywhere from sixty 806 00:58:01.000 --> 00:58:07.039 to eighty thousand pages at the National Archives. Those specifically don't ring a bell 807 00:58:07.119 --> 00:58:10.760 to me, though, So I'm okay, not sure where to point you. 808 00:58:12.840 --> 00:58:16.079 I've seen them. I saw them in a video, and I didn't 809 00:58:16.119 --> 00:58:20.760 take screenprints of them. I should. There's about ten pages that I read 810 00:58:21.239 --> 00:58:24.159 and there are all food Fighters sightings in the daytime, handwritten by pen and 811 00:58:24.159 --> 00:58:30.079 ink on paper by these pilots, right. And the thing the thing is, 812 00:58:30.119 --> 00:58:34.719 these were they these were daytime sightings, and that's exactly what I have 813 00:58:34.800 --> 00:58:38.639 seen myself, and they describe them perfectly and exactly the same as what I 814 00:58:38.679 --> 00:58:40.920 saw, right, And this is the value of it, really, And 815 00:58:40.960 --> 00:58:45.440 they're in their own handwriting with pen and ink, so can you can judge 816 00:58:45.480 --> 00:58:50.159 the witness you know, their writing style and all this really excellent. But 817 00:58:50.440 --> 00:58:53.639 yeah, I guess if that's if you don't have that sort of thing off 818 00:58:53.639 --> 00:58:55.400 the time, I mean, I'll be honest with you, off the top 819 00:58:55.400 --> 00:58:59.119 of my head. Doesn't sound familiar. If you found them on my site, 820 00:58:59.199 --> 00:59:02.880 I wouldn't be either, because there's a lot. But there there are 821 00:59:02.920 --> 00:59:07.119 a couple of resources out there I know. I don't know if they would 822 00:59:07.159 --> 00:59:12.039 have them, but you might want to google Project nineteen forty seven Jan Aldrich's 823 00:59:12.079 --> 00:59:15.760 site. I know that he I believe, focuses on quite a few of 824 00:59:15.760 --> 00:59:19.599 the documents from that era. I'm not sure if those would be official records 825 00:59:19.599 --> 00:59:22.719 that you're referencing or something that maybe was written up and collected by a researcher. 826 00:59:23.400 --> 00:59:27.920 So without screenshots might be hard to determine, but you might want to 827 00:59:27.920 --> 00:59:31.840 start there and see what kind of documents you come up with. Project Project 828 00:59:31.920 --> 00:59:37.440 nineteen forty seven is the website. Thank you, you're welcomes very much. 829 00:59:37.800 --> 00:59:43.440 Sure, all right, thank you, thanks for the callum, So now 830 00:59:43.480 --> 00:59:47.719 I would like to ask you. I also saw you were being interviewed in 831 00:59:47.760 --> 00:59:54.400 a video when you were talking about red flags of a tip. And first 832 00:59:54.440 --> 01:00:00.679 of all, I always forget exactly what a TIP stands for, and because 833 01:00:00.719 --> 01:00:06.199 it's because people confuse it for two different things. But um, but this 834 01:00:06.320 --> 01:00:14.840 is the the purported government program to research unidentified well what they called aerial phenomena 835 01:00:14.960 --> 01:00:21.960 or something. But what were the red When you went to research of this 836 01:00:22.079 --> 01:00:24.079 as much as you could, you said there were red flags and what are 837 01:00:24.079 --> 01:00:28.239 what are some of those red flags? Sure? Yeah, the quick context 838 01:00:28.280 --> 01:00:31.079 and to answer your question about what a TIP stood for, it depends on 839 01:00:31.079 --> 01:00:35.960 what version of the story that you hear. The official line at anyway, 840 01:00:36.360 --> 01:00:43.280 is the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. The controversy for a while was it 841 01:00:43.320 --> 01:00:50.360 was reported by the media and the Pentagon was saying Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program, 842 01:00:50.599 --> 01:00:54.039 so some confusion about what the acronym was for. I was the one 843 01:00:54.079 --> 01:00:58.199 that that came out with the Pentagon statement first because they were the ones that 844 01:00:58.239 --> 01:01:00.719 I was able to get ahold of first, and so I'm kind of tied 845 01:01:00.760 --> 01:01:05.719 to that controversy that I was pushing one name over the other. I was 846 01:01:05.760 --> 01:01:10.000 just showing the contradiction, and I kind of think it got embellished in the 847 01:01:10.360 --> 01:01:15.760 internet blogosphere a little bit about what the debate really was about. The Defense 848 01:01:15.800 --> 01:01:21.039 Intelligence Agency, which is outside of the Pentagon, then told me it was 849 01:01:21.079 --> 01:01:27.679 the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. What's really funny is that a lot of 850 01:01:27.679 --> 01:01:32.039 the attackers towards me were saying, well, the Pentagon is saying through a 851 01:01:32.079 --> 01:01:37.199 spokesperson and they don't know anything, so why would you believe them? Aerospace? 852 01:01:37.480 --> 01:01:42.559 That name came from a DA spokesperson. When I came out with that, 853 01:01:43.079 --> 01:01:45.559 somebody else says, aha, see I told you. It's like, 854 01:01:45.559 --> 01:01:46.840 well, wait a minute, both of them are spokespeople. What are you 855 01:01:46.880 --> 01:01:52.280 trying to argue with? So it's a very kind of convoluted mess on what 856 01:01:52.360 --> 01:01:55.679 a tip was really about. This is that New York Times, Politico, 857 01:01:55.800 --> 01:02:04.199 Washington Post avalanche of publicity that the program got in December of twenty seventeen, 858 01:02:05.199 --> 01:02:08.199 and where I originally I'm going to be honest with you, I was really 859 01:02:08.239 --> 01:02:13.920 super excited about it. I thought it was very cool. Anybody who knows 860 01:02:13.960 --> 01:02:17.280 me sees me publicly, here's my talks whatever. They know that I'm a 861 01:02:17.280 --> 01:02:21.960 big advocate for the fact that a cover up is there. There's a lot 862 01:02:21.960 --> 01:02:27.320 of evidence for it. So when there was an active present day UFO program, 863 01:02:27.719 --> 01:02:30.320 I mean I was all over it. I started filing Floyer requests. 864 01:02:30.360 --> 01:02:36.000 I was working on a television show at the time. It was for a 865 01:02:36.039 --> 01:02:40.119 major network. I can't say it just because it actually still may go so 866 01:02:40.280 --> 01:02:44.159 I can't really say it, but it was something we'd all recognize, and 867 01:02:44.199 --> 01:02:45.679 so I was working on development for it, and I was able to get 868 01:02:45.679 --> 01:02:52.000 access to the Pentagon Public Affairs office. Almost immediately they started denying that the 869 01:02:52.119 --> 01:02:57.840 media stories were not what was being done behind the scenes, that a tip 870 01:02:57.920 --> 01:03:02.440 was something else altogether. So with that quick groundwork, that started the red 871 01:03:02.519 --> 01:03:06.880 flags because on one hand, we were getting a story of what a tip 872 01:03:07.079 --> 01:03:14.480 was and that the government slash Pentagon approved mister Louis Alizando speaking about it. 873 01:03:15.159 --> 01:03:17.199 But then when he starts speaking about it and he says, well, there's 874 01:03:17.239 --> 01:03:22.119 a UFO aspect to it. This is a secret Pentagon UFO study. As 875 01:03:22.119 --> 01:03:24.719 the media touted it, the Pentagon's like, no, that's not it. 876 01:03:24.840 --> 01:03:29.320 The DIA said no, that's not it, and was saying that it was 877 01:03:29.360 --> 01:03:31.960 embellished. Now we've talked about the government lies on your program here for the 878 01:03:32.039 --> 01:03:37.239 last hour, so I'm open to the government lying. What doesn't fit is 879 01:03:37.280 --> 01:03:43.000 everything else. As I started researching not only with the government, but then 880 01:03:43.039 --> 01:03:47.400 what was being said publicly about a tip, things started not to match up. 881 01:03:47.960 --> 01:03:53.639 And I would say the most controversial thing that I've published was a timeline. 882 01:03:53.679 --> 01:03:59.599 I know Alejandro Rojas talked about a timeline as well. A couple of 883 01:03:59.599 --> 01:04:03.800 weeks ago, I had posted one that used all of the key players of 884 01:04:03.920 --> 01:04:08.800 a tip and this will encompass all of the red flags, or most of 885 01:04:08.800 --> 01:04:11.840 them, not all of them, but most of them. And I only 886 01:04:11.960 --> 01:04:16.400 used on this timeline mister Luis Elizondo, doctor hal Putoff, who was also 887 01:04:16.519 --> 01:04:20.360 a key player in a tip by his own admission, but also it's well 888 01:04:20.400 --> 01:04:30.119 known and not not not disputed, and the media that had direct access to 889 01:04:30.199 --> 01:04:34.679 mister Elizondo, doctor Putoff and to the Stars Academy and I created this huge 890 01:04:34.679 --> 01:04:40.920 timeline and it's a mess. And why I bring that up is that if 891 01:04:40.960 --> 01:04:45.159 everybody was out giving a truthful narrative, I'm not insinuating their line, but 892 01:04:45.239 --> 01:04:50.000 if everybody was just telling us a history, we wouldn't have such blatant contradictions. 893 01:04:50.599 --> 01:04:55.800 So my point was, let's take the government out of the equation and 894 01:04:56.000 --> 01:05:00.039 just focus on the public figureheads that were directly involved with a tip and see 895 01:05:00.079 --> 01:05:04.719 what their story is. And it is near impossible, actually, it is 896 01:05:04.719 --> 01:05:11.360 impossible to make a fluid timeline. Now with respect to Alejandro Rojas. I 897 01:05:11.360 --> 01:05:14.880 don't want to take away from his work. He put together a timeline. 898 01:05:15.519 --> 01:05:17.960 What I was listening to in the beginning of your show was he only used 899 01:05:18.320 --> 01:05:23.760 mister Louis Elazando. That's fine. If you only listen to one person, 900 01:05:23.880 --> 01:05:28.039 you can make a fluid timeline. The problem is is that there were multiple 901 01:05:28.079 --> 01:05:32.159 people involved with the aid TIP program, including doctor Puttoff and Senator Harry Reid, 902 01:05:32.639 --> 01:05:35.000 who I also used on the timeline, which I failed to mention. 903 01:05:35.400 --> 01:05:40.639 When you add in those other players, it's a mess. So if we're 904 01:05:40.639 --> 01:05:44.599 excluding them, why are we excluding them? They were directly involved and had 905 01:05:44.599 --> 01:05:47.760 a hand in it. So my role. I don't consider myself a journalist, 906 01:05:47.800 --> 01:05:53.519 I never have. I consider myself a researcher and an investigator. So 907 01:05:53.599 --> 01:05:57.480 for me to make sense of all of this, my whole point was because 908 01:05:57.599 --> 01:06:00.519 it's not popular to go against the going story of the day, and I 909 01:06:00.599 --> 01:06:03.760 know that, but I'm not here to be popular. I'm here to be 910 01:06:03.800 --> 01:06:09.000 accurate, and I think a lot of people then go Greenwalt's trying to, 911 01:06:09.239 --> 01:06:14.000 you know, take down whatever, or go against so and so, or 912 01:06:14.360 --> 01:06:16.239 he's trying to insinuate, and that's not it. It's about getting to the 913 01:06:16.320 --> 01:06:19.639 root of what the story really is. And for me, when you look 914 01:06:19.679 --> 01:06:24.559 at what we are being told, it doesn't match up. And so that's 915 01:06:24.639 --> 01:06:27.159 kind of the nutshell. I can go into more specifics if you'd like, 916 01:06:27.559 --> 01:06:30.960 but that's really the nutshell of the red flags is that the basic fundamentals of 917 01:06:31.000 --> 01:06:36.559 what a tip is told to us is contradictory to what the key players are 918 01:06:36.639 --> 01:06:41.960 saying. But then another aspect that's not part of the timeline, but I'll 919 01:06:41.960 --> 01:06:46.000 give it in. My answer is that when you look at decades of history, 920 01:06:46.480 --> 01:06:54.800 when it comes to true UFO documents, true UFO programs, true UFO 921 01:06:55.000 --> 01:07:00.519 cases, nothing matches up. It's like a completely different type of story. 922 01:07:00.719 --> 01:07:03.639 So it was it a UFO program? I don't know. I'm not saying 923 01:07:03.639 --> 01:07:09.199 it's not. I'm saying that evidence leads me to believe it probably wasn't. 924 01:07:10.000 --> 01:07:12.280 Okay, Well, I do want to I do want to talk a little 925 01:07:12.280 --> 01:07:15.920 more about that in just a minute. Right now, we have another caller 926 01:07:15.000 --> 01:07:18.400 on the line. No, I'll get right back to that after this call. 927 01:07:17.960 --> 01:07:23.440 Um. Call it your first name where you're calling from. As the 928 01:07:23.639 --> 01:07:27.119 thoughts from Richmond, thank you for your patience. I know you've been hanging 929 01:07:27.119 --> 01:07:30.440 a long time. You have a question for our guest. Yeah, it's 930 01:07:30.480 --> 01:07:35.199 a fund of a two parts question. One is a john over the years 931 01:07:35.800 --> 01:07:43.119 since you've been doing this, what would you say is the most interesting document 932 01:07:43.239 --> 01:07:48.440 that you have got a response on regarding the UFO topic. And the second 933 01:07:48.440 --> 01:07:54.320 part of the question is same thing, but like non UFO really did say, 934 01:07:54.400 --> 01:08:00.760 like mk ultra or some other secrets they're keeping. Sure, it's always 935 01:08:00.800 --> 01:08:03.400 hard for me to pick one UFO document. I did talk about ten DASH 936 01:08:03.440 --> 01:08:06.480 two zero six, so I won't repeat that. That is one of my 937 01:08:06.519 --> 01:08:12.719 favorites. I would also bring up as a big honorable mention that nineteen seventy 938 01:08:12.719 --> 01:08:15.640 six I Ran Incident document. It will always hold a special place in my 939 01:08:15.680 --> 01:08:19.600 heart. That's what got me interested in this. That's why I'm sitting in 940 01:08:19.640 --> 01:08:26.119 this chair talking with Martin and still involved in a nutshell. The seventy six 941 01:08:26.159 --> 01:08:30.840 I Ran incident showed technology in nineteen seventy six that we really don't have today. 942 01:08:30.520 --> 01:08:36.159 And when you read that in a government document, that is extraordinary. 943 01:08:36.199 --> 01:08:43.600 I mean a UFO turned into four separate UFOs, one of which they believe 944 01:08:43.640 --> 01:08:47.479 either landed on the ground or hovered directly above it. It's shut down two 945 01:08:47.560 --> 01:08:54.359 f four phantom jets seemingly strategically. It is an amazing document. But here's 946 01:08:54.359 --> 01:08:56.800 what I'll pull up, because I invite everybody to read it. It's four 947 01:08:56.840 --> 01:09:00.560 pages. I can give you the UURL. I have a page dadicated just 948 01:09:00.640 --> 01:09:04.439 for that case. But here's what's fascinating about that document, and it's something 949 01:09:04.439 --> 01:09:09.640 that I want everybody really really to sit and think about. And the fact 950 01:09:09.760 --> 01:09:15.159 is that you see this extraordinary document and it is unclassified. That is an 951 01:09:15.199 --> 01:09:18.520 extraordinary piece of evidence. Because then when you add in the fact that the 952 01:09:18.560 --> 01:09:23.399 government has not ten, not twenty, not a couple hundred, but literally 953 01:09:23.560 --> 01:09:28.520 thousands of UFO documents that are considered all the way up through top secret, 954 01:09:29.000 --> 01:09:31.680 that still to this day are considered classified, and they will not release the 955 01:09:31.760 --> 01:09:35.039 information. They will go to the lengths to say, oh, we lost 956 01:09:35.079 --> 01:09:42.039 it, or opes we shreddit it or whatever. What's underneath that blacked out 957 01:09:42.079 --> 01:09:45.039 information, those black boxes. If you can read the nineteen seventy six a 958 01:09:45.119 --> 01:09:48.239 ran Ins and then there's a lot more. But if you just focus in 959 01:09:48.279 --> 01:09:50.960 on that one document, in the fact that they did not classify it. 960 01:09:51.399 --> 01:09:56.119 I don't know if that was a mistake or not, but think about what 961 01:09:56.319 --> 01:10:00.520 really could be classified top secret when it comes to the UFO phenomena, and 962 01:10:00.560 --> 01:10:05.079 I think that that's a largely overlooked aspect to that document and to this whole 963 01:10:05.119 --> 01:10:11.239 field when it comes to government records, because there is extraordinary evidence to support 964 01:10:11.279 --> 01:10:14.680 not only to cover up, but you don't have many definitions of what the 965 01:10:14.800 --> 01:10:20.079 UFO phenomenon really is until you start adding in an intelligent civilization. And that's 966 01:10:20.079 --> 01:10:24.359 what I actually end my book with is kind of going into I call it 967 01:10:24.399 --> 01:10:29.960 debunking the debunkers, where you deal with those plausible explanations of what UFOs are, 968 01:10:30.239 --> 01:10:32.600 what they could be, and really kind of try and drive home that 969 01:10:32.600 --> 01:10:38.079 that just can't be reality. So that being said, that's the UFO document. 970 01:10:38.960 --> 01:10:42.119 The other one, non UFO related, also a very tough one, 971 01:10:42.199 --> 01:10:47.159 I would say, though the MK Ultra experiments to me are definitely top of 972 01:10:47.159 --> 01:10:53.880 the list. Just to kind of give you a one specific example, actually 973 01:10:53.960 --> 01:10:59.520 two very quickly from the thousands of documents that I got late last year that 974 01:11:00.239 --> 01:11:05.279 literally went viral on the internet when I published them. The biggest I would 975 01:11:05.279 --> 01:11:13.399 say documents that came out of that were twofold. One was a successful report 976 01:11:13.479 --> 01:11:19.840 about a successful attempt to implant chips into dogs, and they were successful in 977 01:11:19.960 --> 01:11:27.359 remote controlling the animals way back in the nineteen sixties. With the CIA to 978 01:11:27.479 --> 01:11:31.800 be able to do that in the nineteen sixties, that paved the way. 979 01:11:31.960 --> 01:11:36.119 They called this research behavioral modification. They did not connect it to MK ultra. 980 01:11:38.199 --> 01:11:43.840 Why that's important is that there is a whole slew of additional projects that 981 01:11:43.960 --> 01:11:47.359 I know now are there that did not deal with MK ultra and mind control 982 01:11:47.439 --> 01:11:53.039 and the LSD experiments that we know of. Behind the scenes, they were 983 01:11:53.039 --> 01:11:57.640 doing experiments and successful ones at that on animals. As far as I could 984 01:11:57.680 --> 01:12:01.920 tell, they made six remote control dogs. They even have very poor photographs 985 01:12:01.920 --> 01:12:05.479 and diagrams, but they showed that they were actually able to make the dog 986 01:12:06.199 --> 01:12:10.560 under their own commands do what they wanted, turn left, turn right, 987 01:12:10.640 --> 01:12:13.640 go up, stops it, so on. And you look at that and 988 01:12:13.680 --> 01:12:19.840 that the implications behind that from what fifty sixty years ago plus is extraordinary. 989 01:12:20.279 --> 01:12:25.079 So when you add in the ability for them to do it with humans, 990 01:12:25.640 --> 01:12:30.880 that's frightening. The second document I'll bring up quickly is a one specific document 991 01:12:30.319 --> 01:12:35.760 has programs listed which do mention mk ULTRA and a couple other ones, but 992 01:12:35.880 --> 01:12:40.359 quite a few of them are blacked out. And what that means is is 993 01:12:40.399 --> 01:12:44.800 that the CIA for years has publicly said, you guys know everything, We 994 01:12:44.840 --> 01:12:47.920 released everything, we did the congressional hearing many moons ago. It's all out 995 01:12:47.960 --> 01:12:51.000 on the table. That's our dirty laundry, Leave us alone. And yet 996 01:12:51.000 --> 01:12:57.800 this document proves that there are multiple project names with descriptions that are one hundred 997 01:12:57.840 --> 01:13:00.800 percent classified that they don't want to tell us about. And why that's important 998 01:13:01.199 --> 01:13:05.600 is that, according to their own writing to me, they do not consider 999 01:13:05.640 --> 01:13:10.800 this material part of mk ULTRA, which means that there is a slew of 1000 01:13:10.840 --> 01:13:16.359 additional material that probably has never seen the light of day that would scare the 1001 01:13:16.359 --> 01:13:23.840 most devoted fans to Stephen King, because they are extraordinary with their implication and 1002 01:13:23.920 --> 01:13:28.279 the fact that they were successful putting chips into brains. It adds a whole 1003 01:13:28.279 --> 01:13:33.880 new perspective to agencies like DARPA, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency that is 1004 01:13:33.920 --> 01:13:40.680 doing research just like this in plain sight of implanting brains and connecting brains with 1005 01:13:40.800 --> 01:13:45.800 artificial intelligence and artificial limbs. Tie that back to what they were doing fifty 1006 01:13:45.840 --> 01:13:49.199 sixty years ago. The possibilities are endless on what they can do right now. 1007 01:13:49.880 --> 01:13:54.560 So those would be a couple I tried to make it quick, but 1008 01:13:54.600 --> 01:13:57.720 a couple examples. Yeah. Great, Well, hey, thanks for the 1009 01:13:57.760 --> 01:14:00.960 call, all right, thank you, Thanks for your work. Thank you. 1010 01:14:01.039 --> 01:14:04.720 I appreciate it. All right. So before the call, we were 1011 01:14:04.720 --> 01:14:12.079 talking about a tip and your your thoughts on them. And I understand with 1012 01:14:12.119 --> 01:14:15.800 the deep you know research that you do, and you look at history in 1013 01:14:16.359 --> 01:14:19.960 the history of what you have seen over the years, and this is not 1014 01:14:20.600 --> 01:14:27.479 apparently lining up. So so the question and its speculation, but do you 1015 01:14:28.560 --> 01:14:32.000 speculate that, well, who who would Lewis Alazondo be then in this case 1016 01:14:32.640 --> 01:14:40.359 disinformation situation? Yeah, and I don't make that that speculation. I don't 1017 01:14:40.399 --> 01:14:42.920 know, to be honest with you. And I mean, he seems like 1018 01:14:42.960 --> 01:14:45.520 a very nice guy. He seems genuine. Uh Do I want to say 1019 01:14:45.560 --> 01:14:48.880 he's lying to you know, because it's quite possible the government is lying. 1020 01:14:49.560 --> 01:14:54.479 What's interesting, though, is is what he is saying put on a timeline 1021 01:14:55.000 --> 01:15:00.520 by itself, I believe would still contradict each other, meaning just using that 1022 01:15:00.600 --> 01:15:05.159 as a source and I believe mister Alihandro Rojas, who did the timeline, 1023 01:15:05.399 --> 01:15:10.079 primarily used him as a source, and that's okay. The problem is that 1024 01:15:10.239 --> 01:15:13.640 he is not just the only source out there. So now we have to 1025 01:15:13.680 --> 01:15:18.640 ask ourselves what is going on. Alejandro had mentioned two thousand and seven as 1026 01:15:18.680 --> 01:15:25.520 a start date. That completely contradicts everybody. And the reason I say that 1027 01:15:25.680 --> 01:15:29.760 is, according to mister Elizando, a tip didn't start until two thousand and 1028 01:15:29.800 --> 01:15:33.840 eight. The contracts that were posted publicly that anybody can access, we're not 1029 01:15:33.840 --> 01:15:38.920 posted until August of two thousand and eight, So what was going on in 1030 01:15:38.920 --> 01:15:42.960 two thousand and seven? The New York Times said a tip started in two 1031 01:15:42.960 --> 01:15:46.600 thousand and seven, and they saw the contracts to prove it. The problem 1032 01:15:46.680 --> 01:15:51.000 is is that contradicts their own source for the story that it was asapp not 1033 01:15:51.159 --> 01:15:55.880 a tip that started in two thousand or excuse me, it was asap, 1034 01:15:56.039 --> 01:16:00.600 not a tip that started first, but not until two thous and eight. 1035 01:16:00.920 --> 01:16:04.439 If they saw contracts, it wouldn't have said a tip. It didn't exist. 1036 01:16:04.840 --> 01:16:09.199 So the question mark is what did they see? So it's not me 1037 01:16:09.319 --> 01:16:15.239 trying to pick on journalists or mister Elizondo or the government. It's not me 1038 01:16:15.359 --> 01:16:19.159 doing that at all. It's showing there are blatant contradictions, sometimes as easy 1039 01:16:19.199 --> 01:16:25.760 as a date or a name, other times like really important aspects to this 1040 01:16:25.920 --> 01:16:30.680 story that just don't match up at all. So that, to me is 1041 01:16:30.720 --> 01:16:32.359 the red flag. It's like, well, why can't we just get a 1042 01:16:33.399 --> 01:16:39.079 one side of the story. Again, it's not popular, and I get 1043 01:16:39.119 --> 01:16:42.039 that, and I get a lot of heat for it. And I understand 1044 01:16:42.079 --> 01:16:45.960 that because I'm a big advocate for the government is covering this up. So 1045 01:16:45.279 --> 01:16:49.880 we just have to assume that the government is covering this up. The problem 1046 01:16:49.920 --> 01:16:53.960 though, is, again, you can take them out of the equation and 1047 01:16:54.000 --> 01:16:58.119 you still have the majority of the red flags left over. Do they have 1048 01:16:58.199 --> 01:17:03.760 easy explanations and answer? Possibly. I'm open to that, but you have 1049 01:17:03.840 --> 01:17:08.760 to ask some really tough questions that I don't think people are asking right now. 1050 01:17:09.199 --> 01:17:15.760 And you know, another really unpopular notion to this is a Bigelow Aerospace 1051 01:17:15.760 --> 01:17:19.359 and how he got the contract and what was the time frame that he got 1052 01:17:19.359 --> 01:17:24.960 it, And that brings up a slew of other contradictions to the story that 1053 01:17:26.720 --> 01:17:30.239 Senator Harry Reid actually on more than one occasion address that This was not a 1054 01:17:30.239 --> 01:17:35.399 sweetheart deal. It was posted in public, and that BASS was created specifically 1055 01:17:35.800 --> 01:17:40.199 once they won the contract for a tip. Right, That sounds great, 1056 01:17:40.920 --> 01:17:45.960 But if you actually go to the Nevada Secretary of State, bass was actually 1057 01:17:45.039 --> 01:17:50.520 created in January. The bid solicitation was not until August of that year, 1058 01:17:50.560 --> 01:17:55.640 in two thousand and eight. So either he had for knowledge or he just 1059 01:17:55.960 --> 01:18:00.239 miraculously thought, let's just create this LLC and hopefully one day there'll be some 1060 01:18:00.319 --> 01:18:03.479 kind of research program that we can tie it to. Or the reporting was 1061 01:18:03.520 --> 01:18:09.000 wrong, right again, not me picking on anybody, it's we can't have 1062 01:18:09.119 --> 01:18:13.199 it all ways. So for me, as an investigator and someone who's very 1063 01:18:13.199 --> 01:18:17.840 excited for this story, it just doesn't match up. And I will just 1064 01:18:17.880 --> 01:18:23.600 add one more thing for the record is that I believe what we have been 1065 01:18:23.720 --> 01:18:27.880 led to believe a TIP is as the secret UFO study. I believe should 1066 01:18:27.920 --> 01:18:30.840 exist. I fully support it. One thing I do in the book and 1067 01:18:31.520 --> 01:18:36.000 do in public lectures and even today is that I try and show that there 1068 01:18:36.079 --> 01:18:42.079 is a huge national security threat to this phenomena, whatever it is. I 1069 01:18:42.119 --> 01:18:46.720 personally use the plural version. I believe there's multiple facets to the UFO phenomena, 1070 01:18:46.840 --> 01:18:50.560 and I believe that there is a threat to national security that has started 1071 01:18:50.840 --> 01:18:54.800 through the forties and fifties goes all the way to today. I believe that 1072 01:18:54.800 --> 01:18:59.680 that is irrefutable. So I think something like a TIP as a UFO reporting 1073 01:19:00.199 --> 01:19:05.640 program should exist, But I don't. My biggest fear, and I think 1074 01:19:05.640 --> 01:19:11.760 that everybody who takes this topic seriously should have. This fear, is that 1075 01:19:11.800 --> 01:19:15.560 if it turns out that this was overly embellished or not what we are led 1076 01:19:15.600 --> 01:19:21.680 to believe, the media has shifted with taking UFOs more seriously if it comes 1077 01:19:21.680 --> 01:19:27.760 out that this wasn't over embellished story or not true or you know. Again, 1078 01:19:27.840 --> 01:19:30.600 I don't know what the endgame is. But if it turns out that 1079 01:19:30.640 --> 01:19:32.600 it's not what we have been led to believe, and these red flags are 1080 01:19:32.680 --> 01:19:38.760 legitimate and they don't have easy answers, the next time that important evidence shows 1081 01:19:38.760 --> 01:19:42.800 itself that's irrefutable, the media is not going to take that gamble again, 1082 01:19:43.359 --> 01:19:46.640 right. They don't want to be caught with with with pie on their face 1083 01:19:46.680 --> 01:19:51.920 and running front page stories about something that ultimately wasn't true. That's my fear, 1084 01:19:53.159 --> 01:19:58.880 and that's not me being trying to inject myself in the story. That's 1085 01:19:58.920 --> 01:20:01.720 a fear that I think that the field should have and a concern that we 1086 01:20:01.760 --> 01:20:06.920 should have. It's better to deal with these tough questions as a UFO community. 1087 01:20:08.000 --> 01:20:12.479 I mean it's called a community for a reason. Figure out what these 1088 01:20:12.520 --> 01:20:16.000 red flag solutions are and then branch out so when somebody else attacks us, 1089 01:20:16.039 --> 01:20:20.039 who really doesn't care about the UFO community, we have an answer lined up. 1090 01:20:20.640 --> 01:20:26.399 But sadly, you know how many it's well over a year since we've 1091 01:20:26.439 --> 01:20:30.199 learned about this program, we still don't have answers. And my intention with 1092 01:20:30.239 --> 01:20:34.079 that timeline was to show these are the key players, these are the key 1093 01:20:34.520 --> 01:20:40.880 outlets that have given you the information from the media based on these key players, 1094 01:20:41.359 --> 01:20:43.920 and nothing matches up. And it's a mess. I call it a 1095 01:20:43.960 --> 01:20:47.920 mess. Well, well, I was very thankful that when the roswell slides 1096 01:20:48.319 --> 01:20:53.039 so called slides came out that they didn't get the media coverage. Can you 1097 01:20:53.079 --> 01:20:56.560 imagine, Yeah, that would have been a real mess there. I'll tell 1098 01:20:56.600 --> 01:20:59.119 you that we have a caller. We have someone else trying to call in 1099 01:20:59.159 --> 01:21:01.119 as well. Call around the line. Your first name where you're calling from, 1100 01:21:02.279 --> 01:21:05.760 Hi, this is Andy from Stratford, Connecticut. Hi Andy, thanks 1101 01:21:05.760 --> 01:21:11.960 for your patients handing on for a while. Sure. Yeah, my question 1102 01:21:12.079 --> 01:21:16.960 kind of ties into John's last thoughts on the government revealing what they know, 1103 01:21:17.640 --> 01:21:23.840 and it always makes me wonder, calling to mind the A tip and the 1104 01:21:24.039 --> 01:21:30.560 recent tic tac Ufo where the Navy is sort of condoning the release of the 1105 01:21:30.600 --> 01:21:35.720 footage and acknowledging that something inexplicable happened. Do you think that it ties into 1106 01:21:36.279 --> 01:21:41.600 the overall theme for the last few decades, which has men just cover ups. 1107 01:21:41.640 --> 01:21:46.800 It's all cover up, denial and misinformation. Is this are we seeing 1108 01:21:47.039 --> 01:21:54.520 a change in their attitude going forward in your opinion? Or is it just 1109 01:21:54.600 --> 01:21:59.239 a case of the right hand not knowing what the left hands doing. I'll 1110 01:21:59.239 --> 01:22:01.520 take your answer up there. Thank you, thanks for the call. All 1111 01:22:01.600 --> 01:22:04.760 right, thanks, thank you, thank you. Yeah, it's hard. 1112 01:22:04.880 --> 01:22:10.199 It's a hard one to answer, and if I understood you correctly, I 1113 01:22:10.199 --> 01:22:12.880 mean there's a couple of things about the videos. First, let me say 1114 01:22:13.119 --> 01:22:17.319 that when military pilots come forward with a story like Commander Favor and those from 1115 01:22:17.359 --> 01:22:21.479 the nimits, that's extraordinary. No one should bat and eye, and that 1116 01:22:21.520 --> 01:22:26.319 if it was one person then maybe we can scrutinize it. There's a lot 1117 01:22:26.359 --> 01:22:29.880 of people that were involved in that that have come forward, and I think 1118 01:22:29.880 --> 01:22:33.680 it deserves a second look in regards specifically to the video. And again this 1119 01:22:33.720 --> 01:22:36.199 is where I'm not sure if I understood it quite correctly on what you were 1120 01:22:36.199 --> 01:22:41.680 asking, But it's important to note that the US government's official stances they never 1121 01:22:41.720 --> 01:22:45.439 released those videos. According to to the Stars Academy, those three videos were 1122 01:22:45.439 --> 01:22:50.720 officially declassified and released. Obviously, that's a huge contradiction. We can paint 1123 01:22:50.840 --> 01:22:57.119 a very solid, irrefutable timeline of the United States government and military lying about 1124 01:22:57.159 --> 01:23:00.359 this topic. So I'm not opposed to the fact that they are just not 1125 01:23:00.399 --> 01:23:04.920 being truthful. What concerns me is the fact that to the Star's Academy talks 1126 01:23:04.960 --> 01:23:12.239 about what they call a chain of evidence document that supports that these were officially 1127 01:23:12.239 --> 01:23:17.800 released and declassified. If I don't want to speak for them, but I'm 1128 01:23:17.800 --> 01:23:23.000 pretty sure that they have said in the past that they have those documents on 1129 01:23:23.039 --> 01:23:27.039 their website. The last I looked, it said that those videos come with 1130 01:23:27.159 --> 01:23:30.640 that documentation. The problem is is they won't show it to you, and 1131 01:23:30.680 --> 01:23:33.920 I want to know why that's a big red flag for me, it's do 1132 01:23:33.960 --> 01:23:38.279 I have doubts that the videos are real? Not? Really. I would 1133 01:23:38.279 --> 01:23:43.000 probably bet money that they are real. The question mark is why the secrecy 1134 01:23:43.199 --> 01:23:48.039 from an organization wanting to end the secrecy. If they have those documents, 1135 01:23:48.279 --> 01:23:53.479 they are not classified. That's not how security oaths work. When you sign 1136 01:23:53.520 --> 01:23:58.239 an NDA or a security oath, you can't take classified information as a souvenir, 1137 01:23:58.880 --> 01:24:03.880 right. You have to leave the classified information there and you can't take 1138 01:24:03.920 --> 01:24:08.520 it home with you. So I do not believe that it is classified at 1139 01:24:08.560 --> 01:24:12.119 all if they have it. If they don't have it, the question mark 1140 01:24:12.199 --> 01:24:16.279 is why Why wouldn't they have any type of release record to show that an 1141 01:24:16.279 --> 01:24:25.239 official video from a US military jet is unclassified or declassified. There is a 1142 01:24:25.279 --> 01:24:30.159 difference between declassified and unclassified, So there's a lot of clarification that's needed there 1143 01:24:30.600 --> 01:24:34.239 that's never been addressed. Going back to your question, is there a change, 1144 01:24:35.319 --> 01:24:39.359 It's hard to tell. I mean, if they're lying, then well 1145 01:24:39.439 --> 01:24:44.560 the pattern continues. If they're being honest, this is something that a lot 1146 01:24:44.640 --> 01:24:46.680 of people don't want to deal with, even though we can prove a long 1147 01:24:47.680 --> 01:24:56.479 history of the government lying. The reality is the government has actually been truthful 1148 01:24:56.520 --> 01:25:00.600 more times than they lied. I know that's hard that some people don't want 1149 01:25:00.640 --> 01:25:04.520 to realize, but that is true. It's historically documented. So in that 1150 01:25:04.640 --> 01:25:08.600 respect, how do we know when they're lying. We can't go to a 1151 01:25:08.680 --> 01:25:12.960 place where we just assume the military's lying to you, app the government's lying. 1152 01:25:13.279 --> 01:25:15.720 How do you know that they're lying, they're talking? You know, 1153 01:25:15.760 --> 01:25:18.479 we can't go there. That's a very scary place to be in. We 1154 01:25:18.560 --> 01:25:25.119 have to have some faith in those that we elect and those that you are 1155 01:25:25.760 --> 01:25:29.279 kind of handling the big picture, so to speak. So is there a 1156 01:25:29.359 --> 01:25:34.960 change? I think not really, But I'm eager to see when the documents 1157 01:25:34.960 --> 01:25:42.000 do get released about a TIP on what it really was. But on that 1158 01:25:42.079 --> 01:25:45.199 note, I think the waters are so muddy that no matter what is released, 1159 01:25:45.479 --> 01:25:50.760 I don't think those believers and supporters of To the Stars Academy and the 1160 01:25:50.760 --> 01:25:55.239 fact that a TIP was a UFO program, if documents are released to show 1161 01:25:55.239 --> 01:25:58.479 that it wasn't, they won't believe in anyway. I think the line in 1162 01:25:58.520 --> 01:26:02.279 the sand has been drawn quite firmly, so no matter what comes out officially, 1163 01:26:03.279 --> 01:26:06.920 it's just not going to be taken seriously and that's that's a shame. 1164 01:26:08.439 --> 01:26:12.239 Wow. Yeah, I do want to talk a little bit more about those 1165 01:26:12.920 --> 01:26:16.479 videos. By the way, I I have some some of the two latest 1166 01:26:16.880 --> 01:26:21.520 people to come forward on the us S Nimitz case. They're coming up at 1167 01:26:21.520 --> 01:26:25.039 the end of the month, on the thirtieth on this show, so stay 1168 01:26:25.039 --> 01:26:28.880 tuned for that. Omar and PJ are going to be on along with Dave 1169 01:26:28.960 --> 01:26:32.399 Batty. So we have another caller. We can kind of hear him in 1170 01:26:32.399 --> 01:26:35.319 the background. Caller, where are you calling from? Your first name? 1171 01:26:38.359 --> 01:26:41.319 Oh, this is Joe, Hi Joe, where are you calling from. 1172 01:26:42.359 --> 01:26:45.600 I'm in Sarasota, Florida. Oh, beautiful place. I was there just 1173 01:26:45.720 --> 01:26:48.520 a few weeks ago. Very nice area. So you got a question for 1174 01:26:48.560 --> 01:26:53.439 our guest. Well, first, I want to say that both of you 1175 01:26:53.479 --> 01:26:57.600 guys are very impressed with what you do when I'm very thankful for what you're 1176 01:26:57.640 --> 01:27:05.039 doing. In particular with John, I'm really frustrated. I'm frustrated or John 1177 01:27:05.840 --> 01:27:13.520 and frustrating. The frustrating looks like this. All the big names in the 1178 01:27:13.640 --> 01:27:17.039 UFO community, from Richard Dolan, Grant Cameron, Jimmy, Church, Church, 1179 01:27:17.880 --> 01:27:20.880 you name it, go down the list of the top ten the top 1180 01:27:21.000 --> 01:27:26.840 twelve. I think all of them and all of us the larger community, 1181 01:27:27.279 --> 01:27:30.359 are going to be in the same place a year or two from now when 1182 01:27:30.359 --> 01:27:36.319 it comes to a tip basically all just looking at it and saying calling it 1183 01:27:36.399 --> 01:27:43.720 for what it is, which is it's clearly an op. It's an operation 1184 01:27:44.520 --> 01:27:49.560 that was clear prior to the New York Times article. And let me explain 1185 01:27:50.079 --> 01:27:55.199 why I say that, And I believe that John understands why I say that. 1186 01:27:55.279 --> 01:28:01.760 They let me clarify it. We heard Tom Belong for months before October 1187 01:28:01.800 --> 01:28:11.760 twenty seventeen telling us how many meetings he had in vacuum sealed quiet rooms with 1188 01:28:12.680 --> 01:28:18.720 Defense intelligence and Pentagon operators. We heard him virtually every other week on a 1189 01:28:18.800 --> 01:28:27.920 distant show telling us about those meetings. This is six months before Louise Alesando 1190 01:28:30.520 --> 01:28:35.239 went through his process of feigning quit, in feigning retirement, whatever that was. 1191 01:28:36.359 --> 01:28:43.199 Point being, you know that list of ten people that certainly includes both 1192 01:28:43.239 --> 01:28:46.960 of you, guys, Alejandro, We're all going to be in the same 1193 01:28:47.000 --> 01:28:51.159 place a year or two from now. We all can see it. We're 1194 01:28:51.159 --> 01:28:56.119 going to look back at this and say that this was just an operation, 1195 01:28:56.600 --> 01:29:00.920 another operation. So what I'd like to say, Yeah, I think John 1196 01:29:00.039 --> 01:29:05.119 is really at the forefront of this, but I don't see why everyone else 1197 01:29:05.239 --> 01:29:10.720 is in lining up to be in the same position that John is right now. 1198 01:29:11.359 --> 01:29:13.880 And there are a couple that are getting there, like Jimmy Church is 1199 01:29:13.920 --> 01:29:18.640 getting close to being fed up with Louise Alazando's stories, and there are others. 1200 01:29:18.680 --> 01:29:24.920 But it seems that enough to me, enough time has passed that all 1201 01:29:25.000 --> 01:29:31.600 the major players looking at this should be to that point. I know one 1202 01:29:31.600 --> 01:29:35.000 other thing I'll add, let me have one other thing that you just mentioned, 1203 01:29:35.720 --> 01:29:41.600 Martin, that leads me to that conclusion about the Nimitz people coming out. 1204 01:29:42.479 --> 01:29:45.960 When have you ever seen anything like this with half a dozen to a 1205 01:29:46.039 --> 01:29:55.760 dozen guys from half a dozen different shifts on an operation being free, freely 1206 01:29:55.800 --> 01:30:00.760 speaking about this one particular incident. When have you adver seen anything like that? 1207 01:30:01.279 --> 01:30:05.319 Okay, go ahead, sir, no on your last point. Yeah, 1208 01:30:05.399 --> 01:30:10.760 I think that the Nimitz case, again reinforcing what I already said, 1209 01:30:10.800 --> 01:30:14.680 is something to look into. I think at the end of the day, 1210 01:30:14.720 --> 01:30:18.760 I wish it wasn't so connected with to the Stars Academy and quote unquote that 1211 01:30:18.880 --> 01:30:24.359 that a tip story just because I believe it deserves to stand on its own 1212 01:30:24.399 --> 01:30:29.000 and I believe that the public should definitely look at it. In regards to 1213 01:30:29.039 --> 01:30:31.800 the UFO community as a whole, I don't I don't want to name names, 1214 01:30:31.800 --> 01:30:36.520 but I also don't want to say that everybody is just hurrah TTSA and 1215 01:30:36.560 --> 01:30:41.399 a tip and this is a proof of disclosure and this and that. I 1216 01:30:41.439 --> 01:30:45.479 think that there are a lot of people that are asking important questions. I'm 1217 01:30:45.520 --> 01:30:47.399 just loud about it, you know I. And the reason why I'm loud 1218 01:30:47.439 --> 01:30:53.039 about it is I do fear again that that repercussion if it does turn out 1219 01:30:53.079 --> 01:30:56.159 to be something that it's not. But the other part of me is that 1220 01:30:56.520 --> 01:31:01.319 this goes to the core of the basic fundamentals of what research an investigation really 1221 01:31:01.439 --> 01:31:05.239 is. And again I'm not picking on journalists, but I've been known to 1222 01:31:05.279 --> 01:31:10.439 say here in the last month and have some heat for it, is that 1223 01:31:10.479 --> 01:31:14.920 there's a journalistic standard that, in my opinion, has gone out the window 1224 01:31:15.640 --> 01:31:18.640 when it comes to reporting on a tip. Now that's not me basing in 1225 01:31:18.680 --> 01:31:24.800 an opinion, that's me stating a fact. And why I say that is, 1226 01:31:24.800 --> 01:31:28.359 if you look at the timeline with the sources of the key players involved. 1227 01:31:29.239 --> 01:31:32.479 Journalists should be asking why does doctor help potof say one thing, mister 1228 01:31:32.520 --> 01:31:39.680 Alisando says another, Why is that? Why are these discrepancies as reported by 1229 01:31:39.720 --> 01:31:44.640 the media, Why do they exist? And no one is asking those questions. 1230 01:31:44.680 --> 01:31:46.800 The two thousand and seven versus two thousand and eight start date. That 1231 01:31:46.920 --> 01:31:53.600 sounds irrelevant probably to some people, but to an investigator trying to piece together 1232 01:31:53.640 --> 01:31:59.920 the puzzle that becomes incredibly important. It becomes incredibly important because it ties in 1233 01:32:00.239 --> 01:32:03.880 to the private contractor that got the bid. It ties into how much foreknowledge 1234 01:32:04.079 --> 01:32:09.239 was there for them to bid on it. Here's another tidbit that is officially 1235 01:32:09.279 --> 01:32:14.560 documented that at this point is not disputed, and that is the fact that 1236 01:32:14.600 --> 01:32:18.720 there was only one bidder on the ass app contract when it was posted. 1237 01:32:18.880 --> 01:32:24.319 Only one now we know as app led into a tip. So that is 1238 01:32:24.359 --> 01:32:28.199 important because in this day and age, even in two thousand and eight, 1239 01:32:28.239 --> 01:32:32.199 when the bid solicitation was was posted on corporate hang on job. Just hold 1240 01:32:32.199 --> 01:32:35.640 that fact just in a second. So when people call into the show, 1241 01:32:35.720 --> 01:32:40.479 make sure you mute your computer or whatever it is. We have a caller 1242 01:32:40.760 --> 01:32:45.000 that just called in, Please mute and sorry about that drunk continue, No, 1243 01:32:45.159 --> 01:32:48.880 that's okay, but it becomes a crucial to understanding you know that that 1244 01:32:49.079 --> 01:32:54.199 part of the story with the government contractor and how he got the bid in 1245 01:32:54.239 --> 01:32:57.960 two thousand and eight. In the corporate environment, even then, it's incredibly 1246 01:32:58.000 --> 01:33:01.439 cut throat for government contracts because you're talking about millions and millions of dollars. 1247 01:33:02.079 --> 01:33:04.960 As reported by the New York Times, it was twenty two million dollars. 1248 01:33:05.680 --> 01:33:11.039 As reported by George Napa Klas, it started at ten million. We don't 1249 01:33:11.039 --> 01:33:15.159 know if there was an additional twelve million, but he showed a screenshot of 1250 01:33:15.199 --> 01:33:17.920 ten million. So we're talking about millions and millions of dollars bottom line, 1251 01:33:18.760 --> 01:33:23.159 How could there only be one bidder like that doesn't make sense to me at 1252 01:33:23.159 --> 01:33:26.880 all, Like the sweetheart deal. Well, I don't want to make the 1253 01:33:27.119 --> 01:33:30.479 accusation, but we have to look at that as and again I'm beating a 1254 01:33:30.520 --> 01:33:32.920 dead horse. But as a researcher, you have to take all of the 1255 01:33:33.000 --> 01:33:36.960 possibilities, then look at the evidence and start scratching him off the list. 1256 01:33:38.479 --> 01:33:43.640 If you go into researching something or reporting on something either way and you have 1257 01:33:43.840 --> 01:33:47.760 a bottom line conclusion already, or you go in with a slant that well, 1258 01:33:47.800 --> 01:33:53.720 eight tips a UFO reporting program. What evidence do we have we have 1259 01:33:53.800 --> 01:33:57.359 mister Alisando. That's fine, that's a great source. The problem is he 1260 01:33:57.399 --> 01:34:00.680 contradicts himself. That's not me being mean about it. That's me using what 1261 01:34:00.720 --> 01:34:04.840 he has said and putting it on a timeline and its contradictory. When you 1262 01:34:04.880 --> 01:34:08.880 look at all of that in the bigger picture, I go back to that 1263 01:34:08.960 --> 01:34:13.680 journalistic, journalistic standard that has gone out the window. We need to push 1264 01:34:13.720 --> 01:34:18.159 those hard questions to answer these red flags. They may have easy answers. 1265 01:34:18.199 --> 01:34:21.760 I have tried to stress that a million times. I have tried to reach 1266 01:34:21.760 --> 01:34:26.359 out to mister Elizondo officially to the Stars Academy. Won't let me talk to 1267 01:34:26.439 --> 01:34:31.159 him. It was over four months that I had reached out and getting kind 1268 01:34:31.159 --> 01:34:33.840 of the brush off, so to speak, and they finally said no. 1269 01:34:34.439 --> 01:34:40.600 I question whether or not they want the tough questions, whether they want to 1270 01:34:40.640 --> 01:34:44.199 address some of these things, because it's not going to be classified, plain 1271 01:34:44.239 --> 01:34:46.560 and simple. I do not believe that the red flags that I have brought 1272 01:34:46.680 --> 01:34:50.520 up are classified. I know you have a caller, Martin, but I 1273 01:34:51.000 --> 01:34:55.760 do, before the end, want to address what people have largely called its 1274 01:34:55.800 --> 01:35:00.720 FOYA exempt, which is also what mister Elizondo has said as a I'll call 1275 01:35:00.760 --> 01:35:04.640 it an excuse on why we won't see the important information. I definitely think 1276 01:35:04.680 --> 01:35:08.159 that that deserves a little bit of time. But I know you've got a 1277 01:35:08.159 --> 01:35:09.800 caller, so I don't want to keep you from it. Oh, we'll 1278 01:35:09.880 --> 01:35:13.800 just go back to that. So we thank you a caller, and we 1279 01:35:13.920 --> 01:35:15.359 do have we do have a new caller on the line. Where are you 1280 01:35:15.399 --> 01:35:21.000 calling from? And your name? Please? First name? Are you talking 1281 01:35:21.039 --> 01:35:26.399 to me? I'm talking to you. Okay, that's great. This is 1282 01:35:26.439 --> 01:35:30.039 Barbara. I'm in West Hollywood, California, and I'm loving listening to your 1283 01:35:30.079 --> 01:35:36.239 program. And i have a kind of a dumb question. I've never tried 1284 01:35:36.279 --> 01:35:44.279 to get it for you document, but I'm always amazed at well the government 1285 01:35:44.319 --> 01:35:49.279 says this or the government says this. So I'm curious, when you call 1286 01:35:49.439 --> 01:35:55.880 in for a FOIA request or you email for a foyer request, do you 1287 01:35:56.039 --> 01:36:01.800 ever talk to a human being or is it always a robot? Do you 1288 01:36:01.960 --> 01:36:08.560 ever have conversations with human beings? Yeah, because it seems to me we're 1289 01:36:08.680 --> 01:36:13.000 robotic. It's a great question to ask. Yeah, So that the basic 1290 01:36:13.079 --> 01:36:16.920 principles of the Freedom of Information Act. As you do request in writing depends 1291 01:36:16.920 --> 01:36:20.479 on the agencies. Some are via email, summer postal mail, summer online. 1292 01:36:21.199 --> 01:36:27.319 After the case has been created. Most agencies have a foy a team. 1293 01:36:27.960 --> 01:36:30.720 Sometimes they're very small teams, other times they're a little bit larger. 1294 01:36:31.000 --> 01:36:34.199 But there are humans, And it's a great question that you bring up, 1295 01:36:34.239 --> 01:36:38.039 and it's a point that I always like making because a lot of people forget 1296 01:36:38.600 --> 01:36:40.960 that, yes, the big, bad, evil government that lies to you 1297 01:36:41.000 --> 01:36:44.920 all the time, there are humans behind it. They are trying to do 1298 01:36:45.039 --> 01:36:49.279 the best that they can do that Sometimes it's not necessarily a cover up or 1299 01:36:49.399 --> 01:36:55.960 intentional misleading of the public. Sometimes it's just downright to a human error. 1300 01:36:56.239 --> 01:36:59.680 There's problems that come along with it, but that's a different discussion. So 1301 01:36:59.720 --> 01:37:05.279 I've always try to maintain a relationship, a friendship, even because I do 1302 01:37:05.640 --> 01:37:09.920 sympathize with everything that they have to deal with. But to go back to 1303 01:37:09.960 --> 01:37:13.560 your question, Yeah, you do talk to people. There are humans on 1304 01:37:13.600 --> 01:37:17.319 the other side, and most of the time they're very interested in helping you. 1305 01:37:18.000 --> 01:37:20.840 That they're not just Barbara. You've got to go away, go back 1306 01:37:20.840 --> 01:37:25.560 to north West Hollywood. You know, it's not about that. It's about 1307 01:37:25.560 --> 01:37:27.960 that they want to do their job and do it right, and sometimes they 1308 01:37:27.960 --> 01:37:30.079 have questions. They'll pick up the phone, they'll call me, they'll call 1309 01:37:30.119 --> 01:37:33.199 you, whatever it is, and they're just humans, just like you, 1310 01:37:33.319 --> 01:37:38.199 me and Martin. And that's what I always like to point out. Sometimes 1311 01:37:38.319 --> 01:37:41.760 they're not so nice, and that is not fun to have to deal with 1312 01:37:41.760 --> 01:37:45.399 certain agencies when they have people that are very annoyed when they see John Greenwald 1313 01:37:45.399 --> 01:37:48.880 pop up in their mailbox. So there are bad times. But yeah, 1314 01:37:48.880 --> 01:37:53.239 there's there's humans on the other side, and there's a lot of human interaction. 1315 01:37:54.239 --> 01:37:57.439 To close the thought, though, I will say sometimes with some agencies 1316 01:37:57.840 --> 01:38:00.039 it is like you're talking to a robot that cannot thing for itself, and 1317 01:38:00.119 --> 01:38:03.840 you get these form letter responses, not all the time, but sometimes, 1318 01:38:03.880 --> 01:38:06.640 and you just want to pull your hair out, you really do. Yeah, 1319 01:38:06.680 --> 01:38:11.880 I don't have much. That's great, Thank you so much. I'm 1320 01:38:11.920 --> 01:38:17.239 I'm really shocked that you actually have conversations with human beings. Yeah, this 1321 01:38:17.439 --> 01:38:23.359 is appreciate. The question is this Barbara h Yes, it is hi Barbara. 1322 01:38:23.760 --> 01:38:27.960 We get communicate via email. All right. I have a bunch of 1323 01:38:27.960 --> 01:38:30.199 people trying to call in. So thank you so much for the call. 1324 01:38:30.479 --> 01:38:33.000 I'll hang up right. Thanks. All right, we have a new caller 1325 01:38:33.079 --> 01:38:39.319 on the line. Your first name and where you're calling from. Caller, 1326 01:38:39.439 --> 01:38:41.840 Yeah, this is Adam from New York. Hi, Adam, how are 1327 01:38:41.840 --> 01:38:45.560 you? Hey? Adam? Hi? How you doing? Got a question 1328 01:38:45.560 --> 01:38:47.840 for our guess? Yeah, I did have a question. I heard you 1329 01:38:47.840 --> 01:38:50.840 guys talking about TTSA, and I don't want to relate this back to the 1330 01:38:51.800 --> 01:38:59.279 twenty seventeen December New York Times Political and Washington Post. I believe it was 1331 01:38:59.399 --> 01:39:01.520 articles again, but I just wanted to ask. John Wiley was on the 1332 01:39:01.520 --> 01:39:04.000 phone. I was speaking with my lawyer over the weekend, doing some work 1333 01:39:04.039 --> 01:39:10.000 at his house. I could realized so many people don't know about this story. 1334 01:39:10.039 --> 01:39:12.479 And I was talking to him about an hand that he looked at me 1335 01:39:12.560 --> 01:39:15.960 like I had three heads. Now, in this story itself, it didn't 1336 01:39:16.000 --> 01:39:21.199 say anything extravagant. It's talking about twenty two million dollars fontage for this program 1337 01:39:21.520 --> 01:39:27.600 by Harry Reid for the government to look into these things. And I explained 1338 01:39:27.600 --> 01:39:30.520 to him, you know, from from his standpoint of a regular person not 1339 01:39:30.680 --> 01:39:35.840 interested in this topic, is this all just disinformation or misinformation. I knew 1340 01:39:35.880 --> 01:39:40.840 this might be a generic question, but I'm just looking at as from the 1341 01:39:40.840 --> 01:39:44.720 point of I've posted this topic many times that I've tried to kind of get 1342 01:39:44.760 --> 01:39:47.319 it some traction, to see if to get more regular people looking into the 1343 01:39:47.359 --> 01:39:54.680 subject. And that's all saying. I'm just wondering if it's disinformation and why 1344 01:39:54.760 --> 01:40:00.760 it's not really getting garnering the greater interest of the public in general, it 1345 01:40:00.800 --> 01:40:03.039 seems or maybe I'm wrong, and maybe that's just what I'm seeing from my 1346 01:40:03.119 --> 01:40:06.960 sphere of of influence, but for me, it seems like it should be 1347 01:40:08.000 --> 01:40:11.319 a bigger story. And with that, I'll let you guys go. I'll 1348 01:40:11.319 --> 01:40:14.640 stay in the line and see what he thinks about that. Yeah, I 1349 01:40:14.680 --> 01:40:19.079 appreciate the question. It's hard for me to pinpoint what the conclusion is meaning. 1350 01:40:19.119 --> 01:40:24.399 What is the intent here? Is it disinformation? Is it just people 1351 01:40:24.439 --> 01:40:28.279 that are a little bit careless with the facts. Is this embellishment? I 1352 01:40:28.560 --> 01:40:34.039 really don't know. I think it deserves a lot more attention, and I 1353 01:40:34.079 --> 01:40:39.560 think that it deserves addressing, not only because I'm being noisy about it and 1354 01:40:39.640 --> 01:40:43.079 want to know, but I think the UFO community and I think the general 1355 01:40:43.119 --> 01:40:46.039 public deserves to know. Why your attorney probably hasn't heard about it is. 1356 01:40:46.039 --> 01:40:49.000 We're well over a year now. The New York Times front page story, 1357 01:40:49.039 --> 01:40:56.760 it was an amazing show of attention worldwide, right, there's no doubt about 1358 01:40:56.800 --> 01:41:00.359 it. In December of twenty seventeen that there was a ton of publicity. 1359 01:41:01.039 --> 01:41:05.920 What has happened since then, in my opinion, not much. And I 1360 01:41:05.960 --> 01:41:12.319 think that in the grander course of trying to educate the public on this is 1361 01:41:12.359 --> 01:41:15.159 a tip. It was a secret Pentagon UFO study. There's a lot of 1362 01:41:15.159 --> 01:41:18.279 stuff that we need to push and let's get answers. Let's get answers. 1363 01:41:18.560 --> 01:41:23.079 I know that that takes time, but I think that you need to hold 1364 01:41:23.119 --> 01:41:27.560 on to that that public interest that you need to continue to come out. 1365 01:41:28.720 --> 01:41:31.000 It's a whole show in itself. But I'm not sure if a History Channel 1366 01:41:31.000 --> 01:41:36.079 show is the right answer, because you're taking away from the newsworthy aspect and 1367 01:41:36.199 --> 01:41:43.880 putting it onto a network show more known for reality type UFO programs. Now, 1368 01:41:44.239 --> 01:41:46.079 I want to stay upfront. I am a television producer. I have 1369 01:41:46.119 --> 01:41:50.079 worked for any networks quite a bit. I have produced on History Channel. 1370 01:41:50.119 --> 01:42:00.279 I have no negative feelings about this. This is entertainment, and I think 1371 01:42:00.319 --> 01:42:03.279 with that, I'll say it again, it's entertainment. You take away from 1372 01:42:03.319 --> 01:42:08.399 the newsworthy aspect of it, and you're putting it on a network that's interested 1373 01:42:08.439 --> 01:42:12.880 in entertainment, and I think that that is probably not the right approach. 1374 01:42:13.119 --> 01:42:15.600 So now what happened as a result, while we haven't heard much of anything 1375 01:42:15.640 --> 01:42:20.000 because they're planning this television show on the History Channel, Well, not everybody 1376 01:42:20.039 --> 01:42:25.119 has the History Channel. That's not everybody cares to watch the History Channel exactly. 1377 01:42:25.239 --> 01:42:28.000 And on top of that, it doesn't go worldwide like it does in 1378 01:42:28.039 --> 01:42:30.880 December of twenty seventeen on the History Channel exactly. So all of that is 1379 01:42:30.880 --> 01:42:36.720 a problematic approach to something that should be more newsworthy to where your lawyer says, 1380 01:42:36.720 --> 01:42:41.279 oh, yeah, I saw CNN or Fox News or MSNBC to a 1381 01:42:41.359 --> 01:42:45.079 story doing a follow up story last Friday. Yeah no, that that's really 1382 01:42:45.079 --> 01:42:47.119 cool of X y Z. But we're not saying that. You know, 1383 01:42:47.159 --> 01:42:51.600 we're seeing very minim coverage now. And and I just wanted to add to 1384 01:42:51.840 --> 01:42:56.800 the thing about my lawyer this season next Marine and he actually had awesome clearances. 1385 01:42:57.239 --> 01:43:00.439 He must have often intelligence and that's why I want to get it reaction 1386 01:43:00.520 --> 01:43:02.199 on it. Because he is ex military. He was in the Marines. 1387 01:43:02.920 --> 01:43:05.880 I'm not sure. I have to check his rank, but I know he's 1388 01:43:05.920 --> 01:43:10.119 pretty high out. I know he ended up doing some intelligence stuff there. 1389 01:43:10.439 --> 01:43:13.239 That's why I wanted to see his reaction on it. Yeah, you know 1390 01:43:13.279 --> 01:43:15.479 what I mean. I thought it would be interesting, and you know, 1391 01:43:15.520 --> 01:43:18.119 he said, you know, I think there's some stuff going on. But 1392 01:43:19.239 --> 01:43:21.760 other than that, he didn't really see that. I couldn't catch his interest. 1393 01:43:23.119 --> 01:43:25.039 I just want to thank you for all your work, and I've got 1394 01:43:25.039 --> 01:43:28.000 to go on your site sometime and dig through all the stuff. I appreciate 1395 01:43:28.039 --> 01:43:30.000 all the work you're doing, and thank you very much Martin for your show. 1396 01:43:31.439 --> 01:43:33.800 Sure put in a lot of work and I appreciate you very much. 1397 01:43:34.000 --> 01:43:38.119 Thank you. John. So we have the last, the last phone call. 1398 01:43:38.159 --> 01:43:41.760 I'm going to take sure that color is online. Thanks again, Adam. 1399 01:43:42.479 --> 01:43:45.119 Call her your first name and where are you calling from? Steven from 1400 01:43:45.199 --> 01:43:47.439 Oregon? Can you hear me? Okay? Hi, Stephen, Yes, 1401 01:43:47.600 --> 01:43:50.399 thank you for the call. You have a question. Yeah, it's just 1402 01:43:50.439 --> 01:43:54.840 a quick one. John said something I've never heard before. A minute ago. 1403 01:43:54.920 --> 01:44:00.159 He said, BOD denied releasing those videos or the government denied releasing the 1404 01:44:00.279 --> 01:44:03.600 videos. Yes, sir, and I have never heard that before, could 1405 01:44:03.600 --> 01:44:09.439 you Could you just dig into that a little bit and absolutely yeah. Um 1406 01:44:09.640 --> 01:44:13.359 so, I worked directly with the Public Affairs Office at the Pentagon, specifically 1407 01:44:13.399 --> 01:44:16.520 the Department of Defense, through the Office of the Secretary of Defense. Um. 1408 01:44:16.640 --> 01:44:20.359 I was told by a major. Her rank was Major Adricia Harris. 1409 01:44:20.560 --> 01:44:27.640 This was also said by other personnel at the Public Affairs Office, But I 1410 01:44:27.680 --> 01:44:31.199 will only speak for what I was told personally in writing. So it was 1411 01:44:31.239 --> 01:44:33.920 also told me to me on the telephone. But I also made sure that 1412 01:44:33.960 --> 01:44:36.840 I got everything in writing that way, that there was a paper trail, 1413 01:44:38.159 --> 01:44:42.640 and they denied that they ever released those videos. No component of the Department 1414 01:44:42.640 --> 01:44:46.039 of Defense. Now, for any of those that don't know, the Defense 1415 01:44:46.039 --> 01:44:53.520 Intelligence Agency is known to be the original agency that housed a tip, so 1416 01:44:53.600 --> 01:44:58.000 to speak. So a tip was one through DIA in twenty ten, as 1417 01:44:58.039 --> 01:45:01.479 confirmed by not only mister luis Ella, but also the DA itself. It 1418 01:45:01.560 --> 01:45:08.840 was transferred out of the DA in twenty and ten over to OSD. DA 1419 01:45:08.920 --> 01:45:12.159 never said OSD, but we can kind of deduce that because that's where mister 1420 01:45:12.159 --> 01:45:16.159 Alisondo worked. The Pentagon is pretty much confirmed it was did confirm it was 1421 01:45:16.199 --> 01:45:19.960 a real program. The question mark, though, is what do they mean 1422 01:45:20.000 --> 01:45:25.520 by they never released these videos. Mister Elizondo had said that they went through 1423 01:45:25.560 --> 01:45:30.399 what's called Adoptster Process dop SR. Now, this is a review process outside 1424 01:45:30.399 --> 01:45:35.359 of the Freedom of Information Act, but it allows for the Department to clear 1425 01:45:36.119 --> 01:45:44.479 either textual or video or photographic documents for release to the public. What the 1426 01:45:44.680 --> 01:45:50.159 DoD told me through the Pentagon was that even though a dopster process is completed, 1427 01:45:50.840 --> 01:45:57.359 that does not authorize anything for public release. It sounded like there is 1428 01:45:57.399 --> 01:46:01.680 another step to go through that was not gone through for these videos. So 1429 01:46:01.720 --> 01:46:05.640 at this point they maintain that they never released them. Does that mean that 1430 01:46:05.680 --> 01:46:12.039 they're fake? Not necessarily, I've said a couple times now, you know, 1431 01:46:12.439 --> 01:46:17.800 we need to get an official version of what these videos were in their 1432 01:46:17.960 --> 01:46:21.840 raw form, to make sure that the audio is legitimate, and to make 1433 01:46:21.880 --> 01:46:27.239 sure that we can see as much as we can see to give a little 1434 01:46:27.279 --> 01:46:30.439 bit more context of what the videos are. We know that they're highly edited. 1435 01:46:30.720 --> 01:46:34.000 We know that because number one, they're compressed, and we know that 1436 01:46:34.000 --> 01:46:40.359 because mister Alisando said that there is a high definition version that's a different red 1437 01:46:40.399 --> 01:46:44.159 flag in itself. But he says that there's a high definition version which has 1438 01:46:44.199 --> 01:46:47.039 yet to be released. But we also see that to the Stars Academy watermarks, 1439 01:46:47.199 --> 01:46:51.119 which means that they edited the video in some way. The audio, 1440 01:46:51.520 --> 01:46:56.239 well, I have no reason to believe it's fake, but it's quite interesting 1441 01:46:56.239 --> 01:47:00.119 when you listen to the pilot's voices and what they're saying. To me that 1442 01:47:00.159 --> 01:47:03.439 doesn't quite jive with what they would say. But I'm not going to say 1443 01:47:03.439 --> 01:47:06.680 it's fake. I'm just saying there should be a little bit more evidence to 1444 01:47:06.800 --> 01:47:11.560 show that what we're looking at truly is legitimate. Because to me, I 1445 01:47:11.560 --> 01:47:15.079 think it needs to be addressed that if mister Alisando said, hey, look, 1446 01:47:15.079 --> 01:47:17.880 the DoD released these, they declassified them. These are the first I 1447 01:47:17.920 --> 01:47:23.079 believe that they term it the first officially declassified you know, UFO videos or 1448 01:47:23.159 --> 01:47:30.319 UAP videos. The media has reported that crediting them to the Department of Defense 1449 01:47:30.359 --> 01:47:34.239 being officially declassified. There's no evidence of that, and in fact it's quite 1450 01:47:34.279 --> 01:47:38.560 the contrary. And it's not just because they said it to me. They 1451 01:47:38.560 --> 01:47:43.119 have gone on the record to other outlets as well that have reported it. 1452 01:47:43.119 --> 01:47:45.800 I believe Wired magazine, but don't quote me on that was one of them 1453 01:47:45.800 --> 01:47:49.880 that did an expose on this and said the DoD denied ever releasing them. 1454 01:47:49.960 --> 01:47:54.560 So it is factual and documented, and it is something that the DoD has 1455 01:47:54.920 --> 01:47:59.840 confirmed. Weird, absolutely fascinating. Thanks guys, a really great show. 1456 01:48:00.359 --> 01:48:02.680 Thanks you appreciate the call. We're almost out of time already, can you 1457 01:48:02.680 --> 01:48:05.800 believe it? John? Yeah, going back to what you just said there, 1458 01:48:08.000 --> 01:48:12.640 I had a fighter pilot on the show and talk to him about that 1459 01:48:12.720 --> 01:48:16.840 particular you know video, and he said that the lingo and the you know, 1460 01:48:16.880 --> 01:48:20.239 the banter back and forth. He said he didn't have any problem with 1461 01:48:20.279 --> 01:48:24.079 that. He said, yeah, things are you know, he said things 1462 01:48:24.079 --> 01:48:28.279 like that, or said it's not unusual, and that's fine, And that 1463 01:48:28.359 --> 01:48:30.640 wasn't my only red flag. My question is we just have to know that 1464 01:48:30.680 --> 01:48:36.239 it's real. When we get a this is officially declassified version and then the 1465 01:48:36.279 --> 01:48:40.359 other side is saying, hey, we never released it. I think that 1466 01:48:40.399 --> 01:48:43.840 deserves addressing and if the government's lying, we'll tack it on the list. 1467 01:48:43.920 --> 01:48:45.239 You know, we've got a pretty big, growing list of lies that we 1468 01:48:45.279 --> 01:48:47.840 can prove. So that's what it is. That's what it is, but 1469 01:48:47.880 --> 01:48:53.359 I think that it deserves definitely a closer look and figure out what exactly is 1470 01:48:53.359 --> 01:48:58.239 going on. I think at one point you're really driving home here, and 1471 01:48:58.439 --> 01:49:01.399 I agree with you wholeheartedly. Is the truth. That's all we really want, 1472 01:49:01.560 --> 01:49:04.359 is the truth. Yeah, and that's the only way we're going to 1473 01:49:04.399 --> 01:49:10.520 get anywhere, and we have to be believable. So I really appreciate that 1474 01:49:10.560 --> 01:49:12.800 a lot. And it's been a real pleasure having you on the show. 1475 01:49:12.840 --> 01:49:15.279 Finally. Yeah, it's my pleasure. Absolutely. I can't believe two hours 1476 01:49:15.319 --> 01:49:20.479 went by so fast. Yeah, now, absolutely, all right. I 1477 01:49:20.520 --> 01:49:24.560 don't know if you have time for that for you exempt thing, but I 1478 01:49:24.600 --> 01:49:27.199 think you're coming up to the end here. I'm right at the end. 1479 01:49:27.199 --> 01:49:30.840 Actually, sorry to say. All right, so just throw out the title 1480 01:49:30.840 --> 01:49:32.359 of your book one time and we'll have to say good night. Yeah, 1481 01:49:32.479 --> 01:49:35.760 yeah, no problem. Title of the book is Inside the Black Vault, 1482 01:49:35.880 --> 01:49:41.680 the Government's UFO Secrets Revealed, and you could buy it at Inside the Black 1483 01:49:41.760 --> 01:49:45.000 Vault dot com or Amazon or any brick and mortar store. I hear it's 1484 01:49:45.039 --> 01:49:47.039 everywhere excellent, all right, John, thanks so much. You take care, 1485 01:49:47.159 --> 01:49:50.159 thank you too. Thanks again, all right, sure thing by now 1486 01:49:51.600 --> 01:49:58.479 all right everyone, So that is it for our show. And next week 1487 01:49:58.600 --> 01:50:02.119 we have Jim Jim Peniston on from the Rundell Sham Force incident. That should 1488 01:50:02.119 --> 01:50:06.000 be an interesting show, so stay tuned for that next week, same time, 1489 01:50:06.359 --> 01:50:10.239 and thanks so much for listening. I want to thank everyone that helps 1490 01:50:10.239 --> 01:50:14.680 out with the show and you the listener especially, and don't forget to keep 1491 01:50:14.720 --> 01:50:36.760 your eyes to the sky.