And it hits me, Oh my gosh, this is a triangle. You
know, there's explanation for everything that occurred in the randallsham parscient. It doesn't
involve aliens at all. It was completely silent. It comes right over our
heads classics also really standing into clearing. He turned over to my father and
held his hand, and he looked in his eyes and said, we're not
alone. Welcome to podcast UFO for our live show. During the show,
feel free to participate live in our chat room, and don't forget to like
us on our very active Facebook page. Hello, and welcome to the show.
It's a great one tonight. I'm looking forward to it. Our guest
tonight is John Greenwell Junior, and I've been trying to get him on the
show for a long time and finally alas he's on the show. It'll be
great to talk to him later on. First of all, we have Alejandro
Rojas coming up with the news, and before that, I just want to
say we have a new blog that actually ties in with tonight's show. It's
called foy is Giving All Our Secrets Away, and that's by Charles Lear who
writes blogs now for us about once a week. Actually has been doing pretty
steady for every week, so check that out on podcast ufo dot com.
I want to thank everyone that supports the show. Without your support, we
couldn't be doing this. Cost actually quite a bit to do the show,
and it's a goal player problem. It's become fairly fairly popular. I had
to get a dedicated server. I use a bandwidth for the show stuff like
that, so it's all really I'm very grateful to all the listeners out there,
and I want to thank you and for right now, I'm going to
bring in my one and only ala Jandro Rojas. Buddy, how you doing,
Alay doing pretty good? How you doing great? Great? So what
is happening in the world of UFOs today? Yeah, well, you know
what I Scott late breaking news. I don't know much about this story yet,
but it's an interesting headline. It's written by Tyler Rogue Away. Have
you had him on? I have and this, Yeah, just to let
the listener know, this just happened while we just connected, and you said,
hey, I just this just came across the wire, so to speak,
just popped up online right now exactly, and it's exciting because Tyler tweeted
earlier today, and for people who don't remember, he's a defense writer for
this website called The Drive. It's kind of a Time Warner website, and
he writes particularly for the war zones, who he writes about, you know,
jets and aerospace defense type of things, and just recently, at least
in the last year or so, he's also been posting some incredible UFO cases
that he comes across. In fact, he's told me before that if someone
in aerospace says they don't believe in UFOs or are at least aren't interested,
I shouldn't say believe but aren't interested, then they're lying. He says that
at least the interest is pervasives throughout the community, something I wasn't aware.
Of course, I knew many people were interested. But earlier today he tweeted,
big posts coming out today. You will find it highly interesting if you're
into mysterious facilities and secret aircraft. And then he sent me a private message
that said look close for hints in this. So, of course, when
I saw the original tweets, already excited so that he literally just must have
hit send on his Twitter right before the show started. And here's the headline.
Vandenberg Air Force Space Space Shuttle Processing Facility now has a very mysterious mission.
The basis old Orbiter Processing Facility offers high security and isolation as well as
ease of operation and access to vast sanitized airspace. So there must be some
sort of operation running out of here that he has a hint of that he's
explaining here in the yard. Haven't had a chance to read it, but
he's been very mysterious in telling us to, you know, take a look
at this, and so I'm excited to read it. But people can find
that on Twitter if they follow my Twitter. I've retweeted it, but I'll
put it on all of our social media out there, and of course then
you all can find it and post it on the podcast UFO Media as well.
So that's something interesting that just happened. Light breaking news. Otherwise,
there's a lot of news out there. So we do have for the unidentified
television show History Channel is running that's going to be covering a bit of a
tip and it's going to essentially it looks like lou Alsando is going to be
kind of the main guy on it. But of course what he's doing with
to the Stars is going to be in there, and at least I've been
able to have a look at some still photos and Steve Justice it seems like
we'll play a pretty big role in it as well. And then of course
Tom DeLong will be in it somewhat, but it doesn't seem like he's going
to be in throughout the show, but bits and pieces. It's hard to
say for sure. But the show is going to be starting on May thirty
first, so that's the first time we've heard about this so late May that
will come out. Also, I did post another story called from a Sap
to a Tip, and that's essentially a lot of people who have been wondering,
including your guest today, has been writing about this kind of how did
it happen? Why are there two different names? Why did the New York
Times cover one name? What was the nature? How did this transition happen?
What's going on here? So I did write a story about it,
and I did interview Alesando to try to clear these things up because this has
been a big problem for me. Also, I've been really confused about this
and it really hasn't made sense to me. Now. When I asked Lou
about it, he felt like he had talked so much about it that you
know, all of the info was out there, but it was hard to
piece it all together. So least I think meet myself and many others were
confused despite of what he had already posted out there or talked about it symposiums
or different talks. So the gist of it is and George napp at least
my interview gave me some of this, but it asapp the Advanced Aerospace Weapons
System Application program was the beginning. So The New York Times touched on this
a bit, and I'll have an article really laying all this out more for
the layman who is not up to speed on all of this on Den of
Geek later this week. But adia agent red Skinwalker the skin Walker book,
said I want to go to Skinwalker, right. We know this to George
Nappen, The New York Times hinted at it, they said The New York
Times said the DA official was going to meet Bigelow at his ranch where he
did research. What they did not mention, of course, is what this
ranch was, where this ranch was, and the significance of this ranch.
What we know, of course about this ranch is that it's skin Walker Ranch,
where a lot of craziness has happened. So this guy goes out there,
he has his own personal experience that is supposedly remarkable. Now, the
name of the person who went out there, they've kept anonymous, and they
haven't given details about what happened. But the New York Times article said,
after this guy met Bigelow, then some DA officials went to Senator Read and
said, we want to start a research program. And this is kind of
how this all started. However, what we've heard from Napp and others is
that AUSP was looking primarily into Skinwalker Ranch, and of course Skinwalker has UFO
stuff attached to it. We've seen some of that in the book, but
also in Jeremy Corbell's documentary about the skin Walker. So what happened was essentially
soon after ASSAP began and they were looking into these paranormal issues, of which
were really weird. I mean, George Knapp released a statement by a manager
with bass who outlined some really weird stuff that they were looking into. But
people got wind of this and they didn't like it. Inside the DA.
Essentially, George has talked about this, Lou has talked about this that there
were these religious factions who felt that this was demonic and that we shouldn't be
messing with it, so they sought to take the program down at this time,
seeing the writing on the wall, they pulled out. They made a
subgroup within a sasapp that was just military UFO cases and that was a tip.
When Lou came on, he just worked on a tip and then eventually
they were right. O SAP was taken down. It was just too controversial
for the people inside the DA. But fortunately they had pulled out the UFO
program and for this reason to save it, and that continued. Lou then
took that over in twenty ten and a tip continued and allegedly continues to this
day. This is information though that Lou gave me. That's kind of interesting.
A tip no longer has the same name. Why a bit of a
similar reason, os app moved to a tip that a tip is getting too
much attention. So in order to keep this new program, you know,
discreet and to keep eyes off of what they're doing, they change the name.
Lu doesn't even know the name, nor does he want to know the
name, essentially because they're keeping it secret. So but he does know who's
involved essentially, who his predecessor is, and that this work is still going
on. Well thing, that's essentially the yea one, pardon, I didn't
mean to interrupt you, but one, no problem. What about the funding,
because that you know that supposedly had ceased it is a good point.
Well, there's a number of things when it comes to the funding. First
of all, the funding was for oss APP that went from two thousand and
seven to twenty twelve. Of course a TIP was a part of ass APP,
so a TIP received some of that funding that division essentially of asap.
Otherwise, after twenty twelve, lou has received at least mentioned at a moof
On symposium that he received other funding and a joint ICA project. What that
often means is that some group received funding and that the emission of this project
they received funding for was similar to what a TIP was doing, so they
were able to work together on it and eight TIP got some data from that.
What Lewis also said is similar things have happened in the past where they
were able to get data from like you know, he gave the example of
satellites looking for nukes coming out of or missiles coming out of North Korea.
Well, if they got anything that fits certain parameters that a TIP was looking
for, then they were able to get some data for that. So essentially
they've kind of gone around and asked for data from other programs that might have
data for sort of things they were looking for. In fact, there's a
guy Philippe from France who did a great presentation at the ANSU in Alabama,
and he was showing us how they all of these satellites that are out there
are collecting data and a lot of this data is going into these major databases.
So if we could create partnerships with some of these these satellite creators and
these for access to these databases, it would be something that UFO group should
do because then we would be able to say, hey, we had this
great sighting here, go to these databases and get satellite imagery from that area
and see if we see whatever it was the witnesses saw. Nobody's kind of
doing that yet, but that was the gist of his presentation to show that
there's a lot of data out there. So certainly that's a similar sort of
thing apparently that they did with an a TIP. I see, Hey,
by the way, some astute person on YouTube was asking where you're floating UFO
went, did you sell it? Oh? No, what we did and
what happened was essentially, okay, that's so funny, and people ask one
of them broke for a customer, you mean head crash, And that was
the last one we had, was my sample, so I had to send
him my my personal one that I had been using so to replace their broken
one because you know, but we are getting a new batch of those in
like tomorrow, so they fly, they go really fast. So all we
got was five silver and five gray, so they're probably gonna sell out within
the next week. So if you want one, go to the UFO Congress
dot com store and get it as soon as possible. We do have them
up for presale because they're going to go quickly. They fly off the shelves.
They don't actually fly, they just fly fly off the shelves. That's
a good way to put it. Yeah. One last thing I think as
interesting is the New York Times part because essentially, well why didn't The New
York Times used to term os AP Essentially LU said, I didn't work for
us APP, I worked for a tip. They never asked me about asapp
or the par Normal. It wasn't my place to even talk about that,
so I didn't. And you will see that there's a lot of things that
LU doesn't talk about until that information is leaked by a third party, typically
that's George Knapp. Once the information gets out there, then he's able to
share it. And George Knapp a lot of what it seems he's gotten.
He says he's gotten from DC and it seems like, you know, this
is an assumption, but I'm guessing he's getting that from Read or Read's office
something like that, but I can't say for sure. I don't know.
He has not explicitly said that about that. Well, yeah, so there's
some backgrounds there. Otherwise, I'll review just a couple of real quick stories,
just that there's a couple of good things out there. There's an article
in the Star Tribune about why scientists are starting to listen to UFO believers,
and we're starting to see a lot of stories along these lines. And essentially
they're reviewing mouf On, they're reviewing the Pentagon program and talking about, hey,
some of these guys are more credible than we thought. All So,
the Detroit Free Press covered the Bob Blazar documentary that's kind of getting a renewed
interest, which is kind of interesting. I know it's going to be in
in a film festival here soon, and then this is the last one I'll
cover Otherwise. The other stuff is kind of similar to what we've seen before.
But well, two things. First of all, the UFO fun shuns
little green men to buy satellites and rockets, so you're gonna see the the
ticker symbol UFO now when you're looking at you know, these different markets.
But unfortunately it's not a UFO company that has taken that. It's an actual
UFO fund that is funding satellites and rockets and space programs. But yeah,
now on the stock exchange sticker, you're going to see the the UFO symbol
and that's what it is. The other thing is that there was a really
interesting meeting by the and there was a Senate hearing on the Space Force and
Senator Bloomenthal had some really odd things to say. We've got links to all
of this it Open Minds TV right on the front page. But he said
that there's some scary stuff essentially going on in space that our adversaries know,
that we know about this. We discussed this and classified meetings, but the
public has no idea. So the public has no context for these conversations that
we're having about security and space, and we really need to let the public
in on what's happening here and the threats from space. Really odd verbiage and
it's kind of scary really. Of course, a lot of the UFO people
are thinking, Oh, he's got to be talking to UFOs and aliens and
stuff like that. We don't know that for sure. He did say adversaries,
but yeah, some very interesting verbiage that he used in this video.
Yeah, adversaries. Well clingons, Yeah, all right, Lingons, all
right, man, thanks so much. All right, thank you, have
a good show. Okay, I'll talk to you next week. Actue later.
All right, So our guest, our guest to this evening is John
Greenwald Junior, and I met him out in Phoenix. Oh, I would
say it was I think it was two years ago. I'll ask him because
I can't remember something like that because one year I got stuck in a snowstorm
never made it out there. But I think it was about two years ago.
Anyway, I've been trying to get him on the show almost since day
one. We finally connected, and here he is. He's been actually he's
been actually looking at this topic and and doing active work since he was fifteen
years old. And here he is, John Greenwald. How are you welcome
to the show. I'm good. Yeah, thanks for having me. I
really appreciate it's good to be here. I'm glad we finally met up.
I know it's been a long time, so I appreciate your patience on that.
Yep. Well, I always thought that i'd like to have you on.
Um and uh, you know, right off the bat, I want
to say that, UM, I have told you this in person. But
when I talked to stand Uh Freeman, you know, several years ago,
I said, who's the next Stan Freeman? And he didn't even hesitate.
He mentioned your name, he said, and those are big shoes to fill.
So those are big shoes to fill. Yeah, it's such an honor
for someone like him to say that. I don't know if I quite live
up to that, but I do appreciate him him saying that for sure.
Yeah, UM, can you give I just mentioned you started, you know,
doing this work at such a young age, and I think that is
just amazing and I'm hoping that more people that are, you know, young
people do get involved in some A little worried about it when to go to
some of the conferences. Is you know there's a lot of gray hair like
mine out there. Yeah, give you a lot more on my head too,
coming around. I blame the kids. Yeah, right right, that's
right. Um, so can you, you know, tell the listening audience
you're basically your background and sure which gets you started in this whole interest anyway?
Yeah, I wish I had a better story to tell other than I
was just curious. I was fifteen years old and I was back in nineteen
ninety six. I was a sophomore in high school. And as a sophomore,
you know, you're supposed to be studying in school and not writing letters
to the government and researching UFOs. But I found myself fascinated by the UFO
topic. Now, at the time, Google wasn't really a thing. Nowadays,
we say, well, we're going to go Google something. Alta Vista
was the search engine the day, and yeah, so those long time Internet
users will remember that. And so I used Alta Vista search UFO. Even
then you would get hundreds of thousands of web pages. Now it's like eight
or ten million, and so you know, there's an incredible amount of information.
So my curiosity was met with just a lot of stuff, and it's
like, how do you make sense of it? We have that problem in
twenty nineteen, but in nineteen ninety six, I thought, Okay, you
know, what what do we BELI leave, what do we not believe?
You'd read the same story but see different versions of it, and then it
was like, well, who do you want to believe? And so I
made kind of what I considered the stupidest decision of my life, but it
turned out to be the best decision I ever made. And I honestly thought
to myself at the age of fifteen that if there was anybody or anything that
was going to be honest about UFOs, it would be the United States government.
And I thought that, and I learned about the Freedom of Information Act,
and I thought, okay, let's just go after documents and see what's
there. And that's what I did. I mean, I learned about the
Freedom of Information Act, taught myself how to use it. Filed A one
request was my original back in nineteen ninety six. It was for the nineteen
seventy six, I ran incident document, not something I claimed to have found.
This has been written about for many, many years prior to me.
But I read about it and I thought, there's no way that this is
real. There's absolutely no way. And so I filed that Foyer request and
sure enough got the four page document word for word. It was exactly what
I had read it to be, which honestly looked like it came out of
an X Files episode, let alone a US government agency. And so that
was it. I was hooked. I mean I literally started filing for your
requests five, ten, twenty, even forty fifty at a time where I
would just you know, push them out there looking for documents before I go.
Can I just ask you sure? Because I hadn't heard about for you,
yeah, like maybe ten years ago or something, and not about UFOs,
but something else. How did you know that at that age? Yeah?
It was literally something I read on the internet, and it was the
only document that they really had profiled was the nineteen seventy six Randons in a
document, and they said, if if you don't believe that this is legitimate,
you can use this thing called the Freedom of Information Act and I thought,
well, you know what is that? I was like you, I'm
like, I've never heard of that, but hey, they're going to send
me something for free? Why not? And how the law is written,
there is a lot you can get for free, but there's also a lot
you might have to pay for. That's a long story in itself, but
that's the nutshell. And so that was how I learned about it. And
honestly, I was filing Freedom of Information Act requests before I really understood how
to use it. Now there's the basic fundamentals of it, and that's you
know, the in a nutshell, you request information, you should get it
unless it fits into nine exemption categories boom, boom, cut and dry.
Unfortunately it doesn't quite work that way, but that's the basic principle of it.
So I was filing for your request not really understanding the type of games
that the government would play back. And as a fifteen year old kid,
I had to learn very quickly that agencies like the CIA and the NSA and
the FBI, they didn't want to hear from me, even though I was
exercising my right. They wanted me to go away. And you know,
here we are twenty two years later, I've collected about two million pages on
the Black Vault dot com now, and it's something that I probably won't stop
anytime soon. Wow. You know, I was just talking during the you
know, during the monologue. How you know this show costs me money?
You know with bandwidth? Um, you know, just from from people listening
to my podcasts. Um, so this your website has to cost you money
with all that. Yeah, it's it's a lot. Um. The website
itself is I mean, I I've got it across a couple dedicated servers that
are just for the Black Vault. Yeah, and there's uh, there's quite
a few hundred gigabytes of data alone. The bandwidth is in the terrabytes that
gets downloaded every month. The unique people like the unique visitors, not hits
because people over inflate hits, but the actual people that sit down and log
onto the Black Vault is about fifteen to twenty thousand people every twenty four hours,
um. And you know they generate literally a half a million to a
million hits per day on the web server. So it is an incredibly busy
box of people downloading not only UFO information, but I mean, you name
a government secret, I've probably gone after it in one way or the other.
Yeah, does the space support itself? I mean with all that,
sadly there's not a whole lot of money in giving information away. That the
site is free and I'm proud of that that, you know, it doesn't
cost you a thing. As with most Internet websites, there's advertisements, but
sadly you don't make a whole lot of money from that. If the industry
was the same as it was twenty years ago, I'd be retired. But
the industry is not the same anymore. And what I mean by that is
advertising on the Internet was a lot more beneficial twenty years ago for people that
had a lot of web traffic. But for every day and this is this
is pretty much accurate. For every dollar you would make twenty years ago,
you're lucky if you make a tenth of a penny now literally, And it
is drastically different, so very variable. Yeah. But um, so this
this is a work of passion. Um. There's no other there's no other
word for it that I can that I can think of, because you're definitely
not doing it to make money. Um. And it's such a great service
to have this out there, and uh, I want to personally thank you
for you know, letting these things be available and and uh, you know,
and it's funny. I understand that also a lot of times people will
stumble on your site and think that this is fresh and new and uh,
you know, things that have been out for a long long time, but
you have stored them on this uh in this database. It's great. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, thank you. Yeah, I appreciate that. I
was reading in your book where you said that you had some information I think
it was um like a thousand pages or something that all of a sudden it
went viral and you didn't expect it to happen, and then you were on
the Today Show and a few other shows things like that. Yeah. Yeah,
things happen all the time that are just unexpected. I mean, even
last December I got not a UFO story, but it was documents that I
literally fought years for when it came to getting them under the Freedom of Information
Act. And it really showed me the lengths that government agencies will go to,
and this specific case was the CIA to hide information. And what I've
learned in twenty two years is you have to look at how they deal with
other topics to kind of understand UFOs and vice versa. And you can learn
a lot as you intermingle your research and multiple topics versus just focusing on one,
because it's very easy to kind of fall into a pigeonhole of just assuming
that you know what they're going to do about a particular topic. For me,
I try and learn on how the different government agencies and again specifically the
CIA and this example operate, and in this particular one, they literally bold
faced told me something that was not true. I have it in writing,
I have it on the telephone. I didn't record it, but I'm not
allowed in the state of California. So for the CIA guys that are listening,
I didn't record it, but it is in writing where they would tell
me one thing and the documentation totally proved another. And for me, at
the end of the day, it showed me that they were trying to make
me go away. They never thought that I would raise money in the tune
of four or five hundred dollars doesn't sound like a lot, but it adds
up with the Freedom of Information actor when you're doing, you know, thousands
of requests. So I don't think they thought it would get the popularity that
it did, and Newsweek covered it, Vice News covered it before I ever
even got the documents. They saw what the CIA was doing about mind control,
and I crowdfunded there the entire amount in like forty eight hours and wrote
them the check. And they continued playing games for months and months. But
I finally got the documents last late November early December and posted all and it's
amazing to see, but I think it's an important thing to look at again
to understand the lengths that these intelligence agencies, these government agencies will go to
to cover up things. Right. Well, we're right at our break,
so everyone that's listening, please hang in there. We'll be right back right
after these messages. All right, welcome back. My guest is John Greenwell
Junior, and we were just we just left off. He was talking about
the government actually did a bold face lie and the documents. Who was talking
about was mind control. But John, so when I was reading a book
and in part in there that I got kind of a kick out of that,
you have a lot of evidence, I think you wrote somewhere in there,
you have a lot of evidence that government does lie. Yeah, and
with all these documents, are you seeing this like? Is this their m
I mean, is it? Does it happen repeatedly? Sadly it happens repeatedly
For many years. I did try and stay away from the L word.
I tried to stop making the accusation and hey, the government is lying to
you, you know, don't listen to them. And I don't want to
start doing that now. But what I will say is you can't not say
that they are. They are obviously misleading, and I think, even by
their own admission, Roswell is a prime example of that. And when you
look at the different stories that have come out, it's clear that they were
trying to give a false narrative to the general public. And they change their
story not once, not twice, not three times, but actually four different
times on various versions of their story, all the way through their Project Mogul
and test dummies and so on and so forth. For me, that to
me shows that there is a Is it malicious, I'm not sure, but
there is an intent to mislead the public just with the basic fundamentals of the
UFO topic, and those basic fundamentals are including of Roswell in those early days
of Project Bluebook and what happened. So, even though I don't want to
say again they're lying to you, you can't get away from the fact there
is something going on here that they have been caught misleading the public, and
to be honest with you, their current explanations and this was the intent in
the beginning of the book. The intent was to mislead the public. But
the versions that they were using did not make sense. They did not hold
up. You can fact check even their latest version and it is full of
holes. They're better served to just let it go, stop talking about it,
Let Kookie people like me try and research it, but stop trying to
add to the story because by them doing that, in my opinion, it
adds so much more mud to the water. But on the side that they
are absolutely lying and that there is much more to just the Roswell's story than
they want us to know, we can assume that. But when you look
at the actual evidence you can put it in hardcore writing. That's exactly what's
going on. They're trying to mislead. What exactly are they misleading about.
I'm not real sure, but in the book I try to show you,
Hey, look some of these most plausible explanations, they can't be true.
Yeah, you know, I've said this a number of time, probably times
on the show. Maybe the listeners might get sick of me saying it.
But if there was no if nothing happened at Roswell, first of all,
for the Army Air Force to say that they found a crash disc, all
they had to do is say nothing, never say anything about it at all.
And I think that is that's a big puzzle to me why they even
came out with that in the first place. I mean, it doesn't really
make any sense. Only a handful of people knew about it, and I
just don't know why they even came out with it to begin with. I
think that they had to address it in fairness. I mean, in nineteen
forty seven, there was you have to think about the time frame where post
World War Two only by a couple of years. There was a lot of
fear that there were foreign threats that could potentially reach US soil. There was
a lot of fear and panic about what the UFO situation, whatever it was,
really was, so we needed to address it as a country. I
think though, by an attempt of doing that when they quote unquote got a
flying saucer crashed in Roswell. They put their foot in their mouth because all
of a sudden, people were starting to realize this was not the right story.
Things were fishy. Flying saucers reported crashed. Then days later, no,
it's a weather balloon. Then many many years later, No, it's
a top secret project Mogul balloon. The aliens that so many people had come
forward seeing the bodies and this, and that they explained by a crash test
dummies. I don't want to give the illusion that the whole book is about
Roswell. I only do it in the beginning of the book, but it's
to show that how ludicrous the explanation is and how they addressed the bodies were
a couple different ways. They said that they were crashed air Force test dummies
that they were using to test parachute systems, and also two aircraft accidents in
which multiple Airforce pilots were either injured or killed. But the problem was is
that Roswell happened in forty seven. The earliest crash test dummy was not invented
until nineteen forty nine by Alderson Research Labs. I was the earliest one that
I could ever find, and that is documented as being the first. Then
those air Force incidents in which pilots were used to explain the quote unquote alien
bodies were both nine and twelve years after Roswell happened. So it's like,
how do you have these time traveling crash test dummies and time traveling aircraft,
you know, air Force aircraft that traveled back in time crash. That's what
people saw. The government essentially was saying that the witnesses had their dates wrong,
but this was the explanation. So what I call all of that is
the company line in the book, and I revert back to that throughout the
entire book, from cover to cover as the company line, because this is
what the government wants you to believe. They address two things, the Roswell
incident and then the UFO phenomenon as a whole. Roswell they feel that they've
explained, but I think we can kind of determine that their current explanations fairly
bunk. But then they try to explain the UFO phenomenon as a whole,
and by doing that they bring up Project Blue Book twelve six hundred eighteen cases
that they investigated only seven hundred and one remained unidentified, and the only reason
those were unidentified was lack of evidence. So what I do in the book
is then destroy that. Is that I go in and show the fact that
Project Blue Book was not an investigation, and there's a lot of evidence to
support multiple different angles on why Blue Book was not a real investigation, but
I essentially destroy that also, and all I use is their own documents.
I don't use any whistleblower testimony, no leaked documents. While I have a
gut feeling that this is true, nothing All I do is use exactly what
they gave me under the Freedom of Information Act to destroy that company line and
the rest of the book, I get away from that and just focus in
on the reality of what is the UFO phenomenon using their own documents, And
to be honest with you, even when I started this twenty two years ago,
I never thought I would amass the amount of information that I have,
But doing the book allowed me to really concentrate and bring it all together and
look at documents that I had not seen for years and years, to look
at them again and see how damning the evidence really is when it comes to
proving a cover up, but then also showing the UFO phenomenon is very real,
And then on top of all of that, how it's not as easily
explainable as many skeptics want us to believe. Right right now, I heard
you say on another show that the longest you have waited for a four year
request was fourteen years, which is amazing. So I want to just ask
you, do you have to keep following up or do you put in the
requests and time goes by and all of a sudden one day you forgot all
about a bit of pops in the mail? Well, how does that work?
Kind of both? Do you have to keep on top of it?
Technically? No, once you're in the system, they should respond to you.
My record was fourteen and a half years, as you noted, and
that's a long time to wait. I wrote an article when I got the
document finally, not based on what the document was about, but what happened
on the planet in the fourteen and a half years that I waited for that
document to come. Yeah, And it was just more of a humorous look
at how long they make you wait, And that's part of the game in
my opinion that I think that they want people to lose interest, which I'm
sure a lot of people do. The Freedom of Information Act is mainly utilized
by journalists, So if you're and I say mainly, I mean I don't
know what the exact percentages are. But if you're writing a story or an
expose on UFOs and you file Foyer requests, you have a deadline, and
your deadline is not fourteen and a half years to the future. So a
lot of times then the documents become irrelevant. So it's all part of the
game. Sadly, they want people to go away, they want people to
lose interest. They've had a growing knack of after a couple of years,
instead of you checking in with them, they will check in with you and
they will say, Okay, Martin, are you still interested in this document
because it's been three years since you've requested it. If we don't hear from
you in thirty days, we're just going to go ahead and close your case.
So then you're forced to stay on top of it. Now they're not
actually legally able to do that. They're actually fighting it in the courts,
and I believe that they've actually already won that. Government agencies are not allowed
to do it, but they still do it. And in fact, one
I posted on Twitter this week was where they three years ago asked me if
I was still interested in the document. They wrote that about two or three
years after I originally filed the request. Fast forward another three years to this
week, they did the exact same thing, are you still interested? So
now I'm like six years or so in to waiting for this document to come,
and they keep asking, and honestly, I mean, I hate to
be morbid about it, but it's like they just want you to go away
and die, you know, like they're just waiting for that day that John
Greenwald is not around anymore to answer this. And that's sad not to be
morbid, but I mean it's it's humorous, but not. It's like,
why wait this long, Stop spending the effort trying to see if I'm still
interested, and just process it. And my responses are always the same to
these agencies. I never lose interest in any of my requests, and I'm
interested because you know I've filed a request. I'm not going to lose the
interest, so please process it accordingly, And they still do it, same
exact request a couple of years go by, they'll try it again, and
you know, thankfully I'm still alive at this point. Knock on wood.
But but yeah, as I get older, and not again, not to
be morbid, but as I get older, there will become an age where
I file a Fourier request to go. I wonder if I am going to
be alive by the time that they respond to this thing, because if you're
waiting a decade and a half, a lot can happen in a decade and
a half. And even though it's morbid to think about, it's all part
of the game that they want to play. Isn't that something now? Because
of that? Because of what you do, do you think you're on any
type of I know this sounds a little conspiratorial, but I do think you're
on any type of watch list of any kind, or you know, they're
just paying attention to you because of what you're asking for. I'm not sure
how. The official answer is no. According to the government, I have
filed a fourier request to the FBI for my own file. Was one of
the quickest responses I ever got. They said, there's nothing there. Maybe
other agencies are paying attention and investigating who knows. But for me, I
think that I struggle with thinking about this. Is it scarier that I'm doing
what I'm doing for twenty two years, starting as a teenager, posting millions
of documents on the Internet for everyone to download around the world for free,
and they're looking into that because they're scared or what's scarier I'm doing all that,
and that they aren't looking into me, that they aren't caring about what
I'm doing. So part of me is I hope they do care. To
a point, I'm not a Julian Assange. I don't take government documents in
a dark alley and post them for the world to see. That's not mymo.
But I would hope that they're concerned about that, and I would welcome
that scrutiny. I'm not concerned about it at all. I got nothing to
hide, and I do what I do legally, and I do it respectfully
as respectfully as I can. Anyway, Now, would you know this kind
of a question you probably probably shouldn't ask this early into the show, But
do you have out of those two million documents to have I don't want to
say smoking gun, but close to smoking gun records that you found like really
really compelling when you got them in the mail. I think that the smoking
gun for me is the overall picture. It's the overall way that the United
States government deals with the issue. I think it's the overall way they deny
interest in the issue. That the government documents completely contradict what I call again
that company line. To me, that is more of the smoking gun.
But one of the things that I talk about briefly in the book is what
is your definition of a smoking gun? And one thing that I've learned in
twenty two years, and I have a lot of fun doing shows like this
and speaking to the public, is everybody has their own definition of what a
smoking gun is. For some people, it is the documents and the overall
arc of the story and how the government deals with At other times, people
want the smoking gun that says we have alien bodies, period, and then
that's it, and that's the smoking gun. For others, it's just testimony,
you know, evidence, be darned. It's so and so x y
Z says ABC, and that's enough for them. So I've learned that the
smoking gun is very, very different for everybody. So not to be long
winded, with you, but just to kind of give a background and what
I feel about what that smoking gun is. But I feel that there are
a lot of documents that drive home the length of how far the government will
go to. One of my personal favorites is Air Force Manual ten DASH two
zero six. And what this was was a fine that I made back in
about two thousand and two thousand and one on accident researching present day UFO reporting
procedures. And what I was amazed at was that hidden in plane sight was
this Air Force Manual ten DASH two zero six, an unclassified document that instructed
all Air Force pilots to report UFOs as they see them, and that the
following this manual was mandatory. So this wasn't a well, if you feel
like it's important, No, it was said verbatim, compliance with this regulation
is mandatory, and so that that meant that it was a very serious topic.
Chapter five was devoted to the UFO topic. Now I had reported this,
um you know, on my website on the Black Vault dot com,
but also through a history channel. I do a lot of work in television
as a producer and writer, and we worked it into I believe too total
history Channel documentaries. It was a very important part of those stories, but
I didn't feel that it got the spotlight it deserved because in there and there's
a lot of speculation out there on whether or not the government has hidden for
many years UFOs or unidentified flying objects as an acronym, that they shield it
under something else. Well, this was proof that they don't do that.
It said unidentified flying object black and white. There was no hiding anything.
And so when the Huffington Post, namely Lee Spiegel, who was working for
them at the time, he had contacted me about doing a story on the
top five best documents that I had received about UFOs. This was one of
five that I had given him. I think it stuck out to him because
it was irrefutable. It showed that the government agency that was leading the company
line, I mean they literally created the company line that they said they had
no interest in UFOs. They have a reporting procedure on reporting UFOs, right,
Like, you can't get any more ridiculous than that as a contradiction.
And so he called the Pentagon for some type of a response. They he
left a message, he didn't get one. Well, journalists have deadlines,
and I remember fast forward the story a few days. He called me late
on a Friday night. I was visiting my sister and he calls me on
the telephone. He say, John, you're not going to believe this.
And I said what And he says air Force Manuel Tends two zero six,
Chapter five. I said yeah. He says it's gone. Yeah. I
said, what are you talking about? And he had I had showed him
how to download it on the internet, because when I had discovered it in
two thousand, it was not online. Through the years that had gone online.
Another key point of this, it was revised many years and I am
able to prove that it's documented, but UFOs never came out. When Huffington
Post and Lee Spiegel was making phone calls, I said, look, you
could take my word for it, but let me show you an Air Force
sight to download this from. That's what he was using. And when he
goes to fact check, something goes to download it. Chapter five was rewritten,
completely gone, and it had something to do with now hurricanes. And
so when he called me, I just thought, I mean, I love
Lee. I've been friends with him for years, so I mean, no
disrespect, But I thought, you know what, probably clicked on the wrong
lane. He didn't know where he was going or whatever, you know,
And I got home, and you know, I was amazed to see that
they covered it up. They changed the manual. The revision date was about
forty eight hours or so af Lee's original phone call, which means that the
minute a major mainstream media outlet was going to spotlight it, yeah and show
this was irrefutable proof, they made a poof go away. I call it
the greatest trick of a magician. And it's like, look at my right
hand, so you don't know what the left hand is doing, and the
left hand was trying very very hard to get rid of the evidence. They
did. Then Lee gets a call back and apparently they tried to claim it
was a coincidence or something like that. But for me, that showed irrefutable
proof that number one, they are interested in UFOs decades after Bluebook, but
number two, they'll go to great lengths to cover it up, that the
minute we were allowed to put this in front of the general public and go
see this is something worthwhile, they just made it all go away and say,
yeah, well we weren't really interested in it, and so on and
so forth. It was all a coincidence we were planning on taking it away.
And going back to my quick note about the fact that it was revised,
why that is important is it shows that it was not a dead publication,
that it was not forgotten about. It was actively revised through the years
after me finding it, and UFOs was never taken out. And the reason
why that's important is it shows that they had ample opportunity to do just that
until someone was going to spotlight it the major media, and then they made
it go away. Yeah, that's something. Well, to be fair to
what you said earlier, Lee is rather technically challenged. I mean, he
just graduated from a flip phone recently to an iPhone and I hope he's listening,
but yeah, he told me that. He told me that story,
and I just thought that was amazing. I have actually on my website,
I have that document. You know that that showed that. But yeah,
that that whole thing to me. I vaguely remember you being part of the
other one who actually found it, and you know that is a great,
great document. O. There some other We're gonna break in about five minutes
here, there's some other really compelling situations like that. Or as far as
I'm trying to vanish something or does it all just eventually trickle out, you
know, the unclassified stuff. Yeah, now that they're an indirect way,
I would say it's very similar. Under the Freedom of Information Act, there's
a thing called mandatory declassification review. Now I bring this up just to give
a quick context that under the Freedom of Information Act, let's say you requested
something in nineteen ninety, they release a blacked out version. If for the
next twenty years people are requesting that same document through the Freedom of Information Act,
they will release that original nineteen ninety version with all the redactions until someone
requests a mandatory declassification review. The minute that happens, they have to go
back and re review the information that they blacked out. Now this is important
because what's not excuse me, what's classified in nineteen ninety is not necessarily classified
in two fifteen or twenty nineteen. So what I did was I collected all
the UFO documents from all the big intelligence agencies. Then I went back and
requested mandatory declassification reviews on what I had received years prior, which means they
have to go back and re review all that blacked out material. There is
a lot you can read in these documents, but there's a lot you can't.
It's classified all the way through to the top secret level. It's considered
highly classified. And two agencies I'll bring up here the National Security Agency and
the Defense Intelligence Agency. The reason why I bring those up is that their
UFO documents span well into the two thousands and again show a very high level
of classification, including top secret. So I requested a mandatory declassification review from
We'll deal with the NSA first. They have, off the top of my
head, maybe three or four hundred or so documents, mostly what are called
Comment Report c I NT or Communications Intelligence. They talk about UFOs, but
the majority of them were blacked out. You can only read like four or
five six words on the entire page. Doing an MDR makes them go back
and re review it. Wouldn't you know that the NSA, after they processed
my request, it took like two years, if I remember, they could
not find a single document that dealt with UFOs that they had released years prior
that was not blacked out. According to them, they blacked out the originals,
or in their case, they wided it out. Makes it a lot
less sinister looking and shredded the originals or lost the originals or got rid of
them, or you know, fill in the blank. But they didn't have
them anymore. So for me, it wasn't the lie on the cover up.
It was an oops. It was we don't have these anymore because we
made a pretty big blunder and all of these documents are gone. They said
that they did find what's called the Yates Affidavid, which is the top secret
court affidavit that was given during the Citizens Against UFO Secrecy v. NSA court
case in the late nineteen seventies early nineteen eighties, where under the Freedom of
Information Act they were trying to get those comment reports out. They did find
that and they gave me a less redacted version, but sadly, they claimed
that they lost all of those UFO documents. The Defense Intelligence Agency did the
exact same thing. They claimed that they lost all of their UFO information and
can't find it. Now, the likelihood of a intelligence agency like the NSA,
especially in the digital age, to just lose all that information. You
know, a lot of it's been digitized. It doesn't matter if it was
written before computers and scanners existed, or that they were being utilized. A
lot of that information has been digitized. For them to say that they lost
it, the chances of that are pretty nil. Adding a second intelligence agency,
in my opinion, that's a blatant cover up. It's a blatant attempt
to get people like me to go away because now there is nothing that I
can do to fight for those UFO documents, because now their official line is
that they are one percent destroyed. Now, I remember reading in your book,
we only we have just like a minute and a half here reading in
your book where you had received a no, no, such documents, they
don't exist and all that. And then the very same person that said that
to you actually released a whole bunch of UFO documents. Yeah, ironically,
I read about it at UFO magazine, Bill Burns's publication. I was writing
for him at the time. And yeah, the quick summary of the story
is, I requested UFO documents from Wright Patterson Air Force Base. They claim
we have nothing. It got transferred over to the National Archives. All of
that fits into their company line that everything is at the National Archives. Also
another point that's not true. And then years later about a thousand pages mysteriously
appeared and I read an article and the spokesperson that was quoted was the same
guy that actually signed the original denial letter a couple of years prior. Now,
Is it an oversight, was it a mistake? All of that is
possible, But sadly, that's not how the Freedom of Information Act works.
If they say they do a search, they need to by by under the
law. If they're just doing it, you know, haphazardly, and they're
not doing a complete search, that's a problem in itself. Right, Okay,
we're at break. My guest is John Greenwall Junior, and we'll be
right back right after these men. All right, welcome back on Martin Willis
with Podcast UFO, and my guest is John Greenwal Junior. John, I'm
going to open up the lines for anyone that likes to call in. That
number will be up on the screen. And for those of you were at
KGr A Radio, that number is six h three nine six seven four h
three. Oh. That number is only live during the show only I get
people calling it all the time. It's a Skype number, so we can
take calls if someone would like to call in. So um as far as
I think we got someone already. It looks like we do. Hold on
caller, your first name and where are you calling from? My name is
Dave Altsman. How are you doing Martin? Hi? Dave? How are
you? I'm doing good? Hey, John? How are you doing?
Hi? Dave? I'm good. How are you? Hey? So?
I don't know if you remember, but I work with David O'Leary from Project
blue Book, And yeah, yeah, I was trying, dude, I've
been calling you furlier. Yeah, I've been calling you for months trying to
get those see if you can get those pages for me. What pages are
you talking about? Um? We were looking to get maybe a couple of
the actual pages. Well obviously not the actual pages, but copies of some
Bluebook pages. Okay, So are you solicit online tape? That's okay.
I'm sorry if I missed a message from you. So, yeah, we
had emailed. We had emailed back and forth. John Desusa hooked us up,
okay. Uh, yeah, and then you asked me to call.
Yeah, I'll be more than happy to look. I mean to be honest
with you. Other blue Book stuff, uh is fairly open source online.
I know that there's a couple of websites to get it from, but I'd
be more than happy to send you a link if you want to. Yeah,
every everywhere I went, I couldn't get him. And I talked to
George Knapp and a bunch of other people, and everybody said, the guy
you got to go to is John Greenwald. John Greenwald, Well, and
yeah. We were at MegaCon and during David's m interview with George Knapp,
he gave you a couple of shout outs. And we were out in the
in the lounge afterwards, and some guy ran up and said, hey,
hey, I'm talking to John Greenwald right now, and he wanted to say
thanks for David giving a shout out for Black Walt during the interview. I
heard about that. Yeah, and I said to the guy, give me
that phone right now. I want to talk to John about the bluebook pages.
And he goes, oh, it's just it's just on Messenger, and
I said, okay, just tell them. I said, Hi, yeah,
no, I'm sorry if I missed something, but I'll be Martin happy
to point to the right direction. It's it's an interesting story, Martin.
I don't know if you want me to get into it. I had all
of the bluebook stuff posted for a little bit from here. I'm sorry robers
here. No, no, no, that was something different, yeah,
which is a very cool story and much cooler actually than this one. But
the short of it is, uh, ancestry dot com tried to throw a
copyright claim on the project that yea, yeah, it was a really bad
debacle. And the only reason I bring that up is to say, uh,
you know here on an open forum. I don't disseminate those documents because
I was threatened to be sued, which is such a ridiculous story, so
I was forced to bring them down. I don't believe that they had any
right to do it, but it's ancestry dot com. They got a lot
more money than I do, and they tried to lay a copyright claim on
them. The only evidence they had, by the way, is because I
gave them a special thanks and it wasn't ancestry dot com. It was a
subsidiary they bought many many years ago. The only reason I'm bringing that up
is I don't have a lot of those documents. I would just have to
point you to those websites that are online, but I will I know your
last name, so I'll search my email and I'll make sure I didn't miss
anything, or if I did, I apologize, and then I'll drop you
a line and you know, see if I can help you out or at
least point you in the right direction. All right, If anyone else needs
to get a hold of John, now is the time. Actually, we
have another caller. Thanks for the call, Dave today. You're welcome.
And I was also calling to say hi to you, Martin. Don't worry,
Sophie Jealous, I know how Caddie. All right, all right,
Dave, thanks, we got another caller on the line. Caller, what's
your first name? Where are you calling from? Jude from British Columbia.
I I can barely hear you, Jenia, if you speak up a little
bit, Martin, Yeah, Martin High. I'm sorry for being a bad
caller in the past. I'm going to try to be a good caller now.
And I have a good question for John. John. I went to
your site and I searched for very specifically these handwritten pages done by the World
War Two pilots of their food fighter sightings. Okay, I've seen a few
of them. They're excellent. Do you have those. It doesn't sound familiar
though. It sounds like that that might be more in the Project blue Book
collection given the time frame, because most of that stuff wound up in the
Project Blue Book Collection, which is s made it to be anywhere from sixty
to eighty thousand pages at the National Archives. Those specifically don't ring a bell
to me, though, So I'm okay, not sure where to point you.
I've seen them. I saw them in a video, and I didn't
take screenprints of them. I should. There's about ten pages that I read
and there are all food Fighters sightings in the daytime, handwritten by pen and
ink on paper by these pilots, right. And the thing the thing is,
these were they these were daytime sightings, and that's exactly what I have
seen myself, and they describe them perfectly and exactly the same as what I
saw, right, And this is the value of it, really, And
they're in their own handwriting with pen and ink, so can you can judge
the witness you know, their writing style and all this really excellent. But
yeah, I guess if that's if you don't have that sort of thing off
the time, I mean, I'll be honest with you, off the top
of my head. Doesn't sound familiar. If you found them on my site,
I wouldn't be either, because there's a lot. But there there are
a couple of resources out there I know. I don't know if they would
have them, but you might want to google Project nineteen forty seven Jan Aldrich's
site. I know that he I believe, focuses on quite a few of
the documents from that era. I'm not sure if those would be official records
that you're referencing or something that maybe was written up and collected by a researcher.
So without screenshots might be hard to determine, but you might want to
start there and see what kind of documents you come up with. Project Project
nineteen forty seven is the website. Thank you, you're welcomes very much.
Sure, all right, thank you, thanks for the callum, So now
I would like to ask you. I also saw you were being interviewed in
a video when you were talking about red flags of a tip. And first
of all, I always forget exactly what a TIP stands for, and because
it's because people confuse it for two different things. But um, but this
is the the purported government program to research unidentified well what they called aerial phenomena
or something. But what were the red When you went to research of this
as much as you could, you said there were red flags and what are
what are some of those red flags? Sure? Yeah, the quick context
and to answer your question about what a TIP stood for, it depends on
what version of the story that you hear. The official line at anyway,
is the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. The controversy for a while was it
was reported by the media and the Pentagon was saying Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program,
so some confusion about what the acronym was for. I was the one
that that came out with the Pentagon statement first because they were the ones that
I was able to get ahold of first, and so I'm kind of tied
to that controversy that I was pushing one name over the other. I was
just showing the contradiction, and I kind of think it got embellished in the
internet blogosphere a little bit about what the debate really was about. The Defense
Intelligence Agency, which is outside of the Pentagon, then told me it was
the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. What's really funny is that a lot of
the attackers towards me were saying, well, the Pentagon is saying through a
spokesperson and they don't know anything, so why would you believe them? Aerospace?
That name came from a DA spokesperson. When I came out with that,
somebody else says, aha, see I told you. It's like,
well, wait a minute, both of them are spokespeople. What are you
trying to argue with? So it's a very kind of convoluted mess on what
a tip was really about. This is that New York Times, Politico,
Washington Post avalanche of publicity that the program got in December of twenty seventeen,
and where I originally I'm going to be honest with you, I was really
super excited about it. I thought it was very cool. Anybody who knows
me sees me publicly, here's my talks whatever. They know that I'm a
big advocate for the fact that a cover up is there. There's a lot
of evidence for it. So when there was an active present day UFO program,
I mean I was all over it. I started filing Floyer requests.
I was working on a television show at the time. It was for a
major network. I can't say it just because it actually still may go so
I can't really say it, but it was something we'd all recognize, and
so I was working on development for it, and I was able to get
access to the Pentagon Public Affairs office. Almost immediately they started denying that the
media stories were not what was being done behind the scenes, that a tip
was something else altogether. So with that quick groundwork, that started the red
flags because on one hand, we were getting a story of what a tip
was and that the government slash Pentagon approved mister Louis Alizando speaking about it.
But then when he starts speaking about it and he says, well, there's
a UFO aspect to it. This is a secret Pentagon UFO study. As
the media touted it, the Pentagon's like, no, that's not it.
The DIA said no, that's not it, and was saying that it was
embellished. Now we've talked about the government lies on your program here for the
last hour, so I'm open to the government lying. What doesn't fit is
everything else. As I started researching not only with the government, but then
what was being said publicly about a tip, things started not to match up.
And I would say the most controversial thing that I've published was a timeline.
I know Alejandro Rojas talked about a timeline as well. A couple of
weeks ago, I had posted one that used all of the key players of
a tip and this will encompass all of the red flags, or most of
them, not all of them, but most of them. And I only
used on this timeline mister Luis Elizondo, doctor hal Putoff, who was also
a key player in a tip by his own admission, but also it's well
known and not not not disputed, and the media that had direct access to
mister Elizondo, doctor Putoff and to the Stars Academy and I created this huge
timeline and it's a mess. And why I bring that up is that if
everybody was out giving a truthful narrative, I'm not insinuating their line, but
if everybody was just telling us a history, we wouldn't have such blatant contradictions.
So my point was, let's take the government out of the equation and
just focus on the public figureheads that were directly involved with a tip and see
what their story is. And it is near impossible, actually, it is
impossible to make a fluid timeline. Now with respect to Alejandro Rojas. I
don't want to take away from his work. He put together a timeline.
What I was listening to in the beginning of your show was he only used
mister Louis Elazando. That's fine. If you only listen to one person,
you can make a fluid timeline. The problem is is that there were multiple
people involved with the aid TIP program, including doctor Puttoff and Senator Harry Reid,
who I also used on the timeline, which I failed to mention.
When you add in those other players, it's a mess. So if we're
excluding them, why are we excluding them? They were directly involved and had
a hand in it. So my role. I don't consider myself a journalist,
I never have. I consider myself a researcher and an investigator. So
for me to make sense of all of this, my whole point was because
it's not popular to go against the going story of the day, and I
know that, but I'm not here to be popular. I'm here to be
accurate, and I think a lot of people then go Greenwalt's trying to,
you know, take down whatever, or go against so and so, or
he's trying to insinuate, and that's not it. It's about getting to the
root of what the story really is. And for me, when you look
at what we are being told, it doesn't match up. And so that's
kind of the nutshell. I can go into more specifics if you'd like,
but that's really the nutshell of the red flags is that the basic fundamentals of
what a tip is told to us is contradictory to what the key players are
saying. But then another aspect that's not part of the timeline, but I'll
give it in. My answer is that when you look at decades of history,
when it comes to true UFO documents, true UFO programs, true UFO
cases, nothing matches up. It's like a completely different type of story.
So it was it a UFO program? I don't know. I'm not saying
it's not. I'm saying that evidence leads me to believe it probably wasn't.
Okay, Well, I do want to I do want to talk a little
more about that in just a minute. Right now, we have another caller
on the line. No, I'll get right back to that after this call.
Um. Call it your first name where you're calling from. As the
thoughts from Richmond, thank you for your patience. I know you've been hanging
a long time. You have a question for our guest. Yeah, it's
a fund of a two parts question. One is a john over the years
since you've been doing this, what would you say is the most interesting document
that you have got a response on regarding the UFO topic. And the second
part of the question is same thing, but like non UFO really did say,
like mk ultra or some other secrets they're keeping. Sure, it's always
hard for me to pick one UFO document. I did talk about ten DASH
two zero six, so I won't repeat that. That is one of my
favorites. I would also bring up as a big honorable mention that nineteen seventy
six I Ran Incident document. It will always hold a special place in my
heart. That's what got me interested in this. That's why I'm sitting in
this chair talking with Martin and still involved in a nutshell. The seventy six
I Ran incident showed technology in nineteen seventy six that we really don't have today.
And when you read that in a government document, that is extraordinary.
I mean a UFO turned into four separate UFOs, one of which they believe
either landed on the ground or hovered directly above it. It's shut down two
f four phantom jets seemingly strategically. It is an amazing document. But here's
what I'll pull up, because I invite everybody to read it. It's four
pages. I can give you the UURL. I have a page dadicated just
for that case. But here's what's fascinating about that document, and it's something
that I want everybody really really to sit and think about. And the fact
is that you see this extraordinary document and it is unclassified. That is an
extraordinary piece of evidence. Because then when you add in the fact that the
government has not ten, not twenty, not a couple hundred, but literally
thousands of UFO documents that are considered all the way up through top secret,
that still to this day are considered classified, and they will not release the
information. They will go to the lengths to say, oh, we lost
it, or opes we shreddit it or whatever. What's underneath that blacked out
information, those black boxes. If you can read the nineteen seventy six a
ran Ins and then there's a lot more. But if you just focus in
on that one document, in the fact that they did not classify it.
I don't know if that was a mistake or not, but think about what
really could be classified top secret when it comes to the UFO phenomena, and
I think that that's a largely overlooked aspect to that document and to this whole
field when it comes to government records, because there is extraordinary evidence to support
not only to cover up, but you don't have many definitions of what the
UFO phenomenon really is until you start adding in an intelligent civilization. And that's
what I actually end my book with is kind of going into I call it
debunking the debunkers, where you deal with those plausible explanations of what UFOs are,
what they could be, and really kind of try and drive home that
that just can't be reality. So that being said, that's the UFO document.
The other one, non UFO related, also a very tough one,
I would say, though the MK Ultra experiments to me are definitely top of
the list. Just to kind of give you a one specific example, actually
two very quickly from the thousands of documents that I got late last year that
literally went viral on the internet when I published them. The biggest I would
say documents that came out of that were twofold. One was a successful report
about a successful attempt to implant chips into dogs, and they were successful in
remote controlling the animals way back in the nineteen sixties. With the CIA to
be able to do that in the nineteen sixties, that paved the way.
They called this research behavioral modification. They did not connect it to MK ultra.
Why that's important is that there is a whole slew of additional projects that
I know now are there that did not deal with MK ultra and mind control
and the LSD experiments that we know of. Behind the scenes, they were
doing experiments and successful ones at that on animals. As far as I could
tell, they made six remote control dogs. They even have very poor photographs
and diagrams, but they showed that they were actually able to make the dog
under their own commands do what they wanted, turn left, turn right,
go up, stops it, so on. And you look at that and
that the implications behind that from what fifty sixty years ago plus is extraordinary.
So when you add in the ability for them to do it with humans,
that's frightening. The second document I'll bring up quickly is a one specific document
has programs listed which do mention mk ULTRA and a couple other ones, but
quite a few of them are blacked out. And what that means is is
that the CIA for years has publicly said, you guys know everything, We
released everything, we did the congressional hearing many moons ago. It's all out
on the table. That's our dirty laundry, Leave us alone. And yet
this document proves that there are multiple project names with descriptions that are one hundred
percent classified that they don't want to tell us about. And why that's important
is that, according to their own writing to me, they do not consider
this material part of mk ULTRA, which means that there is a slew of
additional material that probably has never seen the light of day that would scare the
most devoted fans to Stephen King, because they are extraordinary with their implication and
the fact that they were successful putting chips into brains. It adds a whole
new perspective to agencies like DARPA, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency that is
doing research just like this in plain sight of implanting brains and connecting brains with
artificial intelligence and artificial limbs. Tie that back to what they were doing fifty
sixty years ago. The possibilities are endless on what they can do right now.
So those would be a couple I tried to make it quick, but
a couple examples. Yeah. Great, Well, hey, thanks for the
call, all right, thank you, Thanks for your work. Thank you.
I appreciate it. All right. So before the call, we were
talking about a tip and your your thoughts on them. And I understand with
the deep you know research that you do, and you look at history in
the history of what you have seen over the years, and this is not
apparently lining up. So so the question and its speculation, but do you
speculate that, well, who who would Lewis Alazondo be then in this case
disinformation situation? Yeah, and I don't make that that speculation. I don't
know, to be honest with you. And I mean, he seems like
a very nice guy. He seems genuine. Uh Do I want to say
he's lying to you know, because it's quite possible the government is lying.
What's interesting, though, is is what he is saying put on a timeline
by itself, I believe would still contradict each other, meaning just using that
as a source and I believe mister Alihandro Rojas, who did the timeline,
primarily used him as a source, and that's okay. The problem is that
he is not just the only source out there. So now we have to
ask ourselves what is going on. Alejandro had mentioned two thousand and seven as
a start date. That completely contradicts everybody. And the reason I say that
is, according to mister Elizando, a tip didn't start until two thousand and
eight. The contracts that were posted publicly that anybody can access, we're not
posted until August of two thousand and eight, So what was going on in
two thousand and seven? The New York Times said a tip started in two
thousand and seven, and they saw the contracts to prove it. The problem
is is that contradicts their own source for the story that it was asapp not
a tip that started in two thousand or excuse me, it was asap,
not a tip that started first, but not until two thous and eight.
If they saw contracts, it wouldn't have said a tip. It didn't exist.
So the question mark is what did they see? So it's not me
trying to pick on journalists or mister Elizondo or the government. It's not me
doing that at all. It's showing there are blatant contradictions, sometimes as easy
as a date or a name, other times like really important aspects to this
story that just don't match up at all. So that, to me is
the red flag. It's like, well, why can't we just get a
one side of the story. Again, it's not popular, and I get
that, and I get a lot of heat for it. And I understand
that because I'm a big advocate for the government is covering this up. So
we just have to assume that the government is covering this up. The problem
though, is, again, you can take them out of the equation and
you still have the majority of the red flags left over. Do they have
easy explanations and answer? Possibly. I'm open to that, but you have
to ask some really tough questions that I don't think people are asking right now.
And you know, another really unpopular notion to this is a Bigelow Aerospace
and how he got the contract and what was the time frame that he got
it, And that brings up a slew of other contradictions to the story that
Senator Harry Reid actually on more than one occasion address that This was not a
sweetheart deal. It was posted in public, and that BASS was created specifically
once they won the contract for a tip. Right, That sounds great,
But if you actually go to the Nevada Secretary of State, bass was actually
created in January. The bid solicitation was not until August of that year,
in two thousand and eight. So either he had for knowledge or he just
miraculously thought, let's just create this LLC and hopefully one day there'll be some
kind of research program that we can tie it to. Or the reporting was
wrong, right again, not me picking on anybody, it's we can't have
it all ways. So for me, as an investigator and someone who's very
excited for this story, it just doesn't match up. And I will just
add one more thing for the record is that I believe what we have been
led to believe a TIP is as the secret UFO study. I believe should
exist. I fully support it. One thing I do in the book and
do in public lectures and even today is that I try and show that there
is a huge national security threat to this phenomena, whatever it is. I
personally use the plural version. I believe there's multiple facets to the UFO phenomena,
and I believe that there is a threat to national security that has started
through the forties and fifties goes all the way to today. I believe that
that is irrefutable. So I think something like a TIP as a UFO reporting
program should exist, But I don't. My biggest fear, and I think
that everybody who takes this topic seriously should have. This fear, is that
if it turns out that this was overly embellished or not what we are led
to believe, the media has shifted with taking UFOs more seriously if it comes
out that this wasn't over embellished story or not true or you know. Again,
I don't know what the endgame is. But if it turns out that
it's not what we have been led to believe, and these red flags are
legitimate and they don't have easy answers, the next time that important evidence shows
itself that's irrefutable, the media is not going to take that gamble again,
right. They don't want to be caught with with with pie on their face
and running front page stories about something that ultimately wasn't true. That's my fear,
and that's not me being trying to inject myself in the story. That's
a fear that I think that the field should have and a concern that we
should have. It's better to deal with these tough questions as a UFO community.
I mean it's called a community for a reason. Figure out what these
red flag solutions are and then branch out so when somebody else attacks us,
who really doesn't care about the UFO community, we have an answer lined up.
But sadly, you know how many it's well over a year since we've
learned about this program, we still don't have answers. And my intention with
that timeline was to show these are the key players, these are the key
outlets that have given you the information from the media based on these key players,
and nothing matches up. And it's a mess. I call it a
mess. Well, well, I was very thankful that when the roswell slides
so called slides came out that they didn't get the media coverage. Can you
imagine, Yeah, that would have been a real mess there. I'll tell
you that we have a caller. We have someone else trying to call in
as well. Call around the line. Your first name where you're calling from,
Hi, this is Andy from Stratford, Connecticut. Hi Andy, thanks
for your patients handing on for a while. Sure. Yeah, my question
kind of ties into John's last thoughts on the government revealing what they know,
and it always makes me wonder, calling to mind the A tip and the
recent tic tac Ufo where the Navy is sort of condoning the release of the
footage and acknowledging that something inexplicable happened. Do you think that it ties into
the overall theme for the last few decades, which has men just cover ups.
It's all cover up, denial and misinformation. Is this are we seeing
a change in their attitude going forward in your opinion? Or is it just
a case of the right hand not knowing what the left hands doing. I'll
take your answer up there. Thank you, thanks for the call. All
right, thanks, thank you, thank you. Yeah, it's hard.
It's a hard one to answer, and if I understood you correctly, I
mean there's a couple of things about the videos. First, let me say
that when military pilots come forward with a story like Commander Favor and those from
the nimits, that's extraordinary. No one should bat and eye, and that
if it was one person then maybe we can scrutinize it. There's a lot
of people that were involved in that that have come forward, and I think
it deserves a second look in regards specifically to the video. And again this
is where I'm not sure if I understood it quite correctly on what you were
asking, But it's important to note that the US government's official stances they never
released those videos. According to to the Stars Academy, those three videos were
officially declassified and released. Obviously, that's a huge contradiction. We can paint
a very solid, irrefutable timeline of the United States government and military lying about
this topic. So I'm not opposed to the fact that they are just not
being truthful. What concerns me is the fact that to the Star's Academy talks
about what they call a chain of evidence document that supports that these were officially
released and declassified. If I don't want to speak for them, but I'm
pretty sure that they have said in the past that they have those documents on
their website. The last I looked, it said that those videos come with
that documentation. The problem is is they won't show it to you, and
I want to know why that's a big red flag for me, it's do
I have doubts that the videos are real? Not? Really. I would
probably bet money that they are real. The question mark is why the secrecy
from an organization wanting to end the secrecy. If they have those documents,
they are not classified. That's not how security oaths work. When you sign
an NDA or a security oath, you can't take classified information as a souvenir,
right. You have to leave the classified information there and you can't take
it home with you. So I do not believe that it is classified at
all if they have it. If they don't have it, the question mark
is why Why wouldn't they have any type of release record to show that an
official video from a US military jet is unclassified or declassified. There is a
difference between declassified and unclassified, So there's a lot of clarification that's needed there
that's never been addressed. Going back to your question, is there a change,
It's hard to tell. I mean, if they're lying, then well
the pattern continues. If they're being honest, this is something that a lot
of people don't want to deal with, even though we can prove a long
history of the government lying. The reality is the government has actually been truthful
more times than they lied. I know that's hard that some people don't want
to realize, but that is true. It's historically documented. So in that
respect, how do we know when they're lying. We can't go to a
place where we just assume the military's lying to you, app the government's lying.
How do you know that they're lying, they're talking? You know,
we can't go there. That's a very scary place to be in. We
have to have some faith in those that we elect and those that you are
kind of handling the big picture, so to speak. So is there a
change? I think not really, But I'm eager to see when the documents
do get released about a TIP on what it really was. But on that
note, I think the waters are so muddy that no matter what is released,
I don't think those believers and supporters of To the Stars Academy and the
fact that a TIP was a UFO program, if documents are released to show
that it wasn't, they won't believe in anyway. I think the line in
the sand has been drawn quite firmly, so no matter what comes out officially,
it's just not going to be taken seriously and that's that's a shame.
Wow. Yeah, I do want to talk a little bit more about those
videos. By the way, I I have some some of the two latest
people to come forward on the us S Nimitz case. They're coming up at
the end of the month, on the thirtieth on this show, so stay
tuned for that. Omar and PJ are going to be on along with Dave
Batty. So we have another caller. We can kind of hear him in
the background. Caller, where are you calling from? Your first name?
Oh, this is Joe, Hi Joe, where are you calling from.
I'm in Sarasota, Florida. Oh, beautiful place. I was there just
a few weeks ago. Very nice area. So you got a question for
our guest. Well, first, I want to say that both of you
guys are very impressed with what you do when I'm very thankful for what you're
doing. In particular with John, I'm really frustrated. I'm frustrated or John
and frustrating. The frustrating looks like this. All the big names in the
UFO community, from Richard Dolan, Grant Cameron, Jimmy, Church, Church,
you name it, go down the list of the top ten the top
twelve. I think all of them and all of us the larger community,
are going to be in the same place a year or two from now when
it comes to a tip basically all just looking at it and saying calling it
for what it is, which is it's clearly an op. It's an operation
that was clear prior to the New York Times article. And let me explain
why I say that, And I believe that John understands why I say that.
They let me clarify it. We heard Tom Belong for months before October
twenty seventeen telling us how many meetings he had in vacuum sealed quiet rooms with
Defense intelligence and Pentagon operators. We heard him virtually every other week on a
distant show telling us about those meetings. This is six months before Louise Alesando
went through his process of feigning quit, in feigning retirement, whatever that was.
Point being, you know that list of ten people that certainly includes both
of you, guys, Alejandro, We're all going to be in the same
place a year or two from now. We all can see it. We're
going to look back at this and say that this was just an operation,
another operation. So what I'd like to say, Yeah, I think John
is really at the forefront of this, but I don't see why everyone else
is in lining up to be in the same position that John is right now.
And there are a couple that are getting there, like Jimmy Church is
getting close to being fed up with Louise Alazando's stories, and there are others.
But it seems that enough to me, enough time has passed that all
the major players looking at this should be to that point. I know one
other thing I'll add, let me have one other thing that you just mentioned,
Martin, that leads me to that conclusion about the Nimitz people coming out.
When have you ever seen anything like this with half a dozen to a
dozen guys from half a dozen different shifts on an operation being free, freely
speaking about this one particular incident. When have you adver seen anything like that?
Okay, go ahead, sir, no on your last point. Yeah,
I think that the Nimitz case, again reinforcing what I already said,
is something to look into. I think at the end of the day,
I wish it wasn't so connected with to the Stars Academy and quote unquote that
that a tip story just because I believe it deserves to stand on its own
and I believe that the public should definitely look at it. In regards to
the UFO community as a whole, I don't I don't want to name names,
but I also don't want to say that everybody is just hurrah TTSA and
a tip and this is a proof of disclosure and this and that. I
think that there are a lot of people that are asking important questions. I'm
just loud about it, you know I. And the reason why I'm loud
about it is I do fear again that that repercussion if it does turn out
to be something that it's not. But the other part of me is that
this goes to the core of the basic fundamentals of what research an investigation really
is. And again I'm not picking on journalists, but I've been known to
say here in the last month and have some heat for it, is that
there's a journalistic standard that, in my opinion, has gone out the window
when it comes to reporting on a tip. Now that's not me basing in
an opinion, that's me stating a fact. And why I say that is,
if you look at the timeline with the sources of the key players involved.
Journalists should be asking why does doctor help potof say one thing, mister
Alisando says another, Why is that? Why are these discrepancies as reported by
the media, Why do they exist? And no one is asking those questions.
The two thousand and seven versus two thousand and eight start date. That
sounds irrelevant probably to some people, but to an investigator trying to piece together
the puzzle that becomes incredibly important. It becomes incredibly important because it ties in
to the private contractor that got the bid. It ties into how much foreknowledge
was there for them to bid on it. Here's another tidbit that is officially
documented that at this point is not disputed, and that is the fact that
there was only one bidder on the ass app contract when it was posted.
Only one now we know as app led into a tip. So that is
important because in this day and age, even in two thousand and eight,
when the bid solicitation was was posted on corporate hang on job. Just hold
that fact just in a second. So when people call into the show,
make sure you mute your computer or whatever it is. We have a caller
that just called in, Please mute and sorry about that drunk continue, No,
that's okay, but it becomes a crucial to understanding you know that that
part of the story with the government contractor and how he got the bid in
two thousand and eight. In the corporate environment, even then, it's incredibly
cut throat for government contracts because you're talking about millions and millions of dollars.
As reported by the New York Times, it was twenty two million dollars.
As reported by George Napa Klas, it started at ten million. We don't
know if there was an additional twelve million, but he showed a screenshot of
ten million. So we're talking about millions and millions of dollars bottom line,
How could there only be one bidder like that doesn't make sense to me at
all, Like the sweetheart deal. Well, I don't want to make the
accusation, but we have to look at that as and again I'm beating a
dead horse. But as a researcher, you have to take all of the
possibilities, then look at the evidence and start scratching him off the list.
If you go into researching something or reporting on something either way and you have
a bottom line conclusion already, or you go in with a slant that well,
eight tips a UFO reporting program. What evidence do we have we have
mister Alisando. That's fine, that's a great source. The problem is he
contradicts himself. That's not me being mean about it. That's me using what
he has said and putting it on a timeline and its contradictory. When you
look at all of that in the bigger picture, I go back to that
journalistic, journalistic standard that has gone out the window. We need to push
those hard questions to answer these red flags. They may have easy answers.
I have tried to stress that a million times. I have tried to reach
out to mister Elizondo officially to the Stars Academy. Won't let me talk to
him. It was over four months that I had reached out and getting kind
of the brush off, so to speak, and they finally said no.
I question whether or not they want the tough questions, whether they want to
address some of these things, because it's not going to be classified, plain
and simple. I do not believe that the red flags that I have brought
up are classified. I know you have a caller, Martin, but I
do, before the end, want to address what people have largely called its
FOYA exempt, which is also what mister Elizondo has said as a I'll call
it an excuse on why we won't see the important information. I definitely think
that that deserves a little bit of time. But I know you've got a
caller, so I don't want to keep you from it. Oh, we'll
just go back to that. So we thank you a caller, and we
do have we do have a new caller on the line. Where are you
calling from? And your name? Please? First name? Are you talking
to me? I'm talking to you. Okay, that's great. This is
Barbara. I'm in West Hollywood, California, and I'm loving listening to your
program. And i have a kind of a dumb question. I've never tried
to get it for you document, but I'm always amazed at well the government
says this or the government says this. So I'm curious, when you call
in for a FOIA request or you email for a foyer request, do you
ever talk to a human being or is it always a robot? Do you
ever have conversations with human beings? Yeah, because it seems to me we're
robotic. It's a great question to ask. Yeah, So that the basic
principles of the Freedom of Information Act. As you do request in writing depends
on the agencies. Some are via email, summer postal mail, summer online.
After the case has been created. Most agencies have a foy a team.
Sometimes they're very small teams, other times they're a little bit larger.
But there are humans, And it's a great question that you bring up,
and it's a point that I always like making because a lot of people forget
that, yes, the big, bad, evil government that lies to you
all the time, there are humans behind it. They are trying to do
the best that they can do that Sometimes it's not necessarily a cover up or
intentional misleading of the public. Sometimes it's just downright to a human error.
There's problems that come along with it, but that's a different discussion. So
I've always try to maintain a relationship, a friendship, even because I do
sympathize with everything that they have to deal with. But to go back to
your question, Yeah, you do talk to people. There are humans on
the other side, and most of the time they're very interested in helping you.
That they're not just Barbara. You've got to go away, go back
to north West Hollywood. You know, it's not about that. It's about
that they want to do their job and do it right, and sometimes they
have questions. They'll pick up the phone, they'll call me, they'll call
you, whatever it is, and they're just humans, just like you,
me and Martin. And that's what I always like to point out. Sometimes
they're not so nice, and that is not fun to have to deal with
certain agencies when they have people that are very annoyed when they see John Greenwald
pop up in their mailbox. So there are bad times. But yeah,
there's there's humans on the other side, and there's a lot of human interaction.
To close the thought, though, I will say sometimes with some agencies
it is like you're talking to a robot that cannot thing for itself, and
you get these form letter responses, not all the time, but sometimes,
and you just want to pull your hair out, you really do. Yeah,
I don't have much. That's great, Thank you so much. I'm
I'm really shocked that you actually have conversations with human beings. Yeah, this
is appreciate. The question is this Barbara h Yes, it is hi Barbara.
We get communicate via email. All right. I have a bunch of
people trying to call in. So thank you so much for the call.
I'll hang up right. Thanks. All right, we have a new caller
on the line. Your first name and where you're calling from. Caller,
Yeah, this is Adam from New York. Hi, Adam, how are
you? Hey? Adam? Hi? How you doing? Got a question
for our guess? Yeah, I did have a question. I heard you
guys talking about TTSA, and I don't want to relate this back to the
twenty seventeen December New York Times Political and Washington Post. I believe it was
articles again, but I just wanted to ask. John Wiley was on the
phone. I was speaking with my lawyer over the weekend, doing some work
at his house. I could realized so many people don't know about this story.
And I was talking to him about an hand that he looked at me
like I had three heads. Now, in this story itself, it didn't
say anything extravagant. It's talking about twenty two million dollars fontage for this program
by Harry Reid for the government to look into these things. And I explained
to him, you know, from from his standpoint of a regular person not
interested in this topic, is this all just disinformation or misinformation. I knew
this might be a generic question, but I'm just looking at as from the
point of I've posted this topic many times that I've tried to kind of get
it some traction, to see if to get more regular people looking into the
subject. And that's all saying. I'm just wondering if it's disinformation and why
it's not really getting garnering the greater interest of the public in general, it
seems or maybe I'm wrong, and maybe that's just what I'm seeing from my
sphere of of influence, but for me, it seems like it should be
a bigger story. And with that, I'll let you guys go. I'll
stay in the line and see what he thinks about that. Yeah, I
appreciate the question. It's hard for me to pinpoint what the conclusion is meaning.
What is the intent here? Is it disinformation? Is it just people
that are a little bit careless with the facts. Is this embellishment? I
really don't know. I think it deserves a lot more attention, and I
think that it deserves addressing, not only because I'm being noisy about it and
want to know, but I think the UFO community and I think the general
public deserves to know. Why your attorney probably hasn't heard about it is.
We're well over a year now. The New York Times front page story,
it was an amazing show of attention worldwide, right, there's no doubt about
it. In December of twenty seventeen that there was a ton of publicity.
What has happened since then, in my opinion, not much. And I
think that in the grander course of trying to educate the public on this is
a tip. It was a secret Pentagon UFO study. There's a lot of
stuff that we need to push and let's get answers. Let's get answers.
I know that that takes time, but I think that you need to hold
on to that that public interest that you need to continue to come out.
It's a whole show in itself. But I'm not sure if a History Channel
show is the right answer, because you're taking away from the newsworthy aspect and
putting it onto a network show more known for reality type UFO programs. Now,
I want to stay upfront. I am a television producer. I have
worked for any networks quite a bit. I have produced on History Channel.
I have no negative feelings about this. This is entertainment, and I think
with that, I'll say it again, it's entertainment. You take away from
the newsworthy aspect of it, and you're putting it on a network that's interested
in entertainment, and I think that that is probably not the right approach.
So now what happened as a result, while we haven't heard much of anything
because they're planning this television show on the History Channel, Well, not everybody
has the History Channel. That's not everybody cares to watch the History Channel exactly.
And on top of that, it doesn't go worldwide like it does in
December of twenty seventeen on the History Channel exactly. So all of that is
a problematic approach to something that should be more newsworthy to where your lawyer says,
oh, yeah, I saw CNN or Fox News or MSNBC to a
story doing a follow up story last Friday. Yeah no, that that's really
cool of X y Z. But we're not saying that. You know,
we're seeing very minim coverage now. And and I just wanted to add to
the thing about my lawyer this season next Marine and he actually had awesome clearances.
He must have often intelligence and that's why I want to get it reaction
on it. Because he is ex military. He was in the Marines.
I'm not sure. I have to check his rank, but I know he's
pretty high out. I know he ended up doing some intelligence stuff there.
That's why I wanted to see his reaction on it. Yeah, you know
what I mean. I thought it would be interesting, and you know,
he said, you know, I think there's some stuff going on. But
other than that, he didn't really see that. I couldn't catch his interest.
I just want to thank you for all your work, and I've got
to go on your site sometime and dig through all the stuff. I appreciate
all the work you're doing, and thank you very much Martin for your show.
Sure put in a lot of work and I appreciate you very much.
Thank you. John. So we have the last, the last phone call.
I'm going to take sure that color is online. Thanks again, Adam.
Call her your first name and where are you calling from? Steven from
Oregon? Can you hear me? Okay? Hi, Stephen, Yes,
thank you for the call. You have a question. Yeah, it's just
a quick one. John said something I've never heard before. A minute ago.
He said, BOD denied releasing those videos or the government denied releasing the
videos. Yes, sir, and I have never heard that before, could
you Could you just dig into that a little bit and absolutely yeah. Um
so, I worked directly with the Public Affairs Office at the Pentagon, specifically
the Department of Defense, through the Office of the Secretary of Defense. Um.
I was told by a major. Her rank was Major Adricia Harris.
This was also said by other personnel at the Public Affairs Office, But I
will only speak for what I was told personally in writing. So it was
also told me to me on the telephone. But I also made sure that
I got everything in writing that way, that there was a paper trail,
and they denied that they ever released those videos. No component of the Department
of Defense. Now, for any of those that don't know, the Defense
Intelligence Agency is known to be the original agency that housed a tip, so
to speak. So a tip was one through DIA in twenty ten, as
confirmed by not only mister luis Ella, but also the DA itself. It
was transferred out of the DA in twenty and ten over to OSD. DA
never said OSD, but we can kind of deduce that because that's where mister
Alisondo worked. The Pentagon is pretty much confirmed it was did confirm it was
a real program. The question mark, though, is what do they mean
by they never released these videos. Mister Elizondo had said that they went through
what's called Adoptster Process dop SR. Now, this is a review process outside
of the Freedom of Information Act, but it allows for the Department to clear
either textual or video or photographic documents for release to the public. What the
DoD told me through the Pentagon was that even though a dopster process is completed,
that does not authorize anything for public release. It sounded like there is
another step to go through that was not gone through for these videos. So
at this point they maintain that they never released them. Does that mean that
they're fake? Not necessarily, I've said a couple times now, you know,
we need to get an official version of what these videos were in their
raw form, to make sure that the audio is legitimate, and to make
sure that we can see as much as we can see to give a little
bit more context of what the videos are. We know that they're highly edited.
We know that because number one, they're compressed, and we know that
because mister Alisando said that there is a high definition version that's a different red
flag in itself. But he says that there's a high definition version which has
yet to be released. But we also see that to the Stars Academy watermarks,
which means that they edited the video in some way. The audio,
well, I have no reason to believe it's fake, but it's quite interesting
when you listen to the pilot's voices and what they're saying. To me that
doesn't quite jive with what they would say. But I'm not going to say
it's fake. I'm just saying there should be a little bit more evidence to
show that what we're looking at truly is legitimate. Because to me, I
think it needs to be addressed that if mister Alisando said, hey, look,
the DoD released these, they declassified them. These are the first I
believe that they term it the first officially declassified you know, UFO videos or
UAP videos. The media has reported that crediting them to the Department of Defense
being officially declassified. There's no evidence of that, and in fact it's quite
the contrary. And it's not just because they said it to me. They
have gone on the record to other outlets as well that have reported it.
I believe Wired magazine, but don't quote me on that was one of them
that did an expose on this and said the DoD denied ever releasing them.
So it is factual and documented, and it is something that the DoD has
confirmed. Weird, absolutely fascinating. Thanks guys, a really great show.
Thanks you appreciate the call. We're almost out of time already, can you
believe it? John? Yeah, going back to what you just said there,
I had a fighter pilot on the show and talk to him about that
particular you know video, and he said that the lingo and the you know,
the banter back and forth. He said he didn't have any problem with
that. He said, yeah, things are you know, he said things
like that, or said it's not unusual, and that's fine, And that
wasn't my only red flag. My question is we just have to know that
it's real. When we get a this is officially declassified version and then the
other side is saying, hey, we never released it. I think that
deserves addressing and if the government's lying, we'll tack it on the list.
You know, we've got a pretty big, growing list of lies that we
can prove. So that's what it is. That's what it is, but
I think that it deserves definitely a closer look and figure out what exactly is
going on. I think at one point you're really driving home here, and
I agree with you wholeheartedly. Is the truth. That's all we really want,
is the truth. Yeah, and that's the only way we're going to
get anywhere, and we have to be believable. So I really appreciate that
a lot. And it's been a real pleasure having you on the show.
Finally. Yeah, it's my pleasure. Absolutely. I can't believe two hours
went by so fast. Yeah, now, absolutely, all right. I
don't know if you have time for that for you exempt thing, but I
think you're coming up to the end here. I'm right at the end.
Actually, sorry to say. All right, so just throw out the title
of your book one time and we'll have to say good night. Yeah,
yeah, no problem. Title of the book is Inside the Black Vault,
the Government's UFO Secrets Revealed, and you could buy it at Inside the Black
Vault dot com or Amazon or any brick and mortar store. I hear it's
everywhere excellent, all right, John, thanks so much. You take care,
thank you too. Thanks again, all right, sure thing by now
all right everyone, So that is it for our show. And next week
we have Jim Jim Peniston on from the Rundell Sham Force incident. That should
be an interesting show, so stay tuned for that next week, same time,
and thanks so much for listening. I want to thank everyone that helps
out with the show and you the listener especially, and don't forget to keep
your eyes to the sky.