WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.120 --> 00:00:04.960 Welcome back in your Leadership. I'm Chris Lorenzo and welcome to this week's Thoughtful 2 00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:08.439 Thursday. Don't forget to follow us on YouTube at Hacking your Leadership and leave 3 00:00:08.480 --> 00:00:11.080 us a review on iTunes. On this lefful Thursday, I want to go 4 00:00:11.080 --> 00:00:15.800 over something that is it's pretty common in the leadership space. Is this this 5 00:00:15.880 --> 00:00:20.199 concept of managing change? You know, changes, Change is the only constant 6 00:00:20.199 --> 00:00:26.120 I've heard that my entire life and organizations are constantly changing, and it change 7 00:00:26.199 --> 00:00:29.000 is never an easy thing. There are some people who say they thrive on 8 00:00:29.039 --> 00:00:33.520 it and they love change, and I'm sure that maybe that's the case for 9 00:00:33.560 --> 00:00:38.159 some people. For most people, it can be stressful. Even if they 10 00:00:38.600 --> 00:00:43.320 inherently believe the outcome on the other side is good, it can be stressful. 11 00:00:43.640 --> 00:00:46.359 And you know, there's this this kind of chart that has been adopted 12 00:00:46.359 --> 00:00:52.600 by a lot of organizations that talks about the emotional cycle that employees go through 13 00:00:52.799 --> 00:00:55.399 when it comes to change, and we'll put a link to it in the 14 00:00:55.399 --> 00:01:00.920 podcast description, But in general, employees start with denial. They through anxiety, 15 00:01:00.359 --> 00:01:04.840 shock, resistance, fear, anger, frustration, confusion, and stress. 16 00:01:04.920 --> 00:01:08.680 Then there's this kind of transitional period where you see some creativity, some 17 00:01:08.719 --> 00:01:12.640 people kind of thinking about how they can adapt to these new changes and adapt 18 00:01:12.680 --> 00:01:17.400 them in their own role and how they can they can impact on them. 19 00:01:17.439 --> 00:01:22.040 Then there's some skepticism, but it's like people become cautiously optimistic. They start 20 00:01:22.079 --> 00:01:25.760 to accept it, then they become impatient that other people aren't accepting it. 21 00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:29.200 Then they become hopeful. Then there's some energy around it, You get some 22 00:01:29.359 --> 00:01:32.879 enthusiasm, and then that leads right into the next change. Right, So 23 00:01:32.920 --> 00:01:37.640 it's like it's a constant cycle and a lot of leaders don't manage this cycle 24 00:01:37.719 --> 00:01:42.159 correctly or or don't lead employees correctly through this cycle. And as I want 25 00:01:42.200 --> 00:01:46.000 to talk about this because I think it's a it can there are different parts 26 00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:49.719 of this cycle that impact leaders differently, and I think, you know, 27 00:01:49.959 --> 00:01:53.239 it would help our listeners if we talked about some of the ways that we've 28 00:01:53.319 --> 00:01:56.040 kind of interacted with this cycle over the years. Yeah, I can tell 29 00:01:56.079 --> 00:01:57.920 you, like, I think everybody goes through it, and I think that 30 00:01:59.079 --> 00:02:02.120 people skip through different parts of it based upon like who they are, their 31 00:02:02.200 --> 00:02:06.120 perspective of the world, and shall they process some of these things. Like 32 00:02:06.159 --> 00:02:08.560 so for me, um, you know, like I I read through this 33 00:02:08.599 --> 00:02:13.560 and I'm like, yeah, I'm not quick like like like denial is like 34 00:02:13.599 --> 00:02:16.719 the first thing. UM, I don't know that I spend much time in 35 00:02:16.800 --> 00:02:21.319 like the denial, the shock, the resistance. I jump right into like 36 00:02:21.360 --> 00:02:25.560 the anger, um and so because it's just kind of like what are we 37 00:02:25.599 --> 00:02:29.840 doing? This is crazy? And but but I also moved through that pretty 38 00:02:29.919 --> 00:02:35.800 quickly. So like I I think that UM, having you know, a 39 00:02:35.840 --> 00:02:40.039 long career UM in a place like retail leadership, again, you're kind of 40 00:02:40.120 --> 00:02:44.080 used to like this ongoing change to your part, like to your point, 41 00:02:44.120 --> 00:02:46.439 like there's always something that's changing. There's always a different approach, there's a 42 00:02:46.479 --> 00:02:50.000 different strategy, there's a different you know, the way that we do things, 43 00:02:50.319 --> 00:02:53.639 and it's constantly being UM adjusted in that type. So like you kind 44 00:02:53.639 --> 00:02:57.960 of get used to the like Okay, it's gonna be what it's gonna be, 45 00:02:58.120 --> 00:03:02.319 But like what questions do I have or how do I move quickly? 46 00:03:02.479 --> 00:03:06.919 Knowing that I'm responsible for leading people, so like I can feel a certain 47 00:03:06.960 --> 00:03:10.439 way about something but also understand that this is what we're doing organizationally, I 48 00:03:10.479 --> 00:03:14.479 have to make that come to life, like that's actually the job that I 49 00:03:14.560 --> 00:03:20.439 have, and so I think sometimes for me it's helpful to kind of work 50 00:03:20.479 --> 00:03:23.680 through some things quickly, no matter how much my initial reaction is to then 51 00:03:23.719 --> 00:03:28.159 get to the point of the responsibility of my role as a leader, I 52 00:03:28.199 --> 00:03:30.719 think that helps me get through a lot of these stages very quickly. Yeah, 53 00:03:30.919 --> 00:03:34.240 I think you mentioned important here, which is the role of the leader. 54 00:03:34.360 --> 00:03:38.080 Meaning if you are just an employee who doesn't have people reporting to you, 55 00:03:38.680 --> 00:03:44.080 then your role is whatever it is in this Like you can pick your 56 00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:47.199 poison on where in this chart you tend to start and the different things you 57 00:03:47.199 --> 00:03:51.280 can kind of pass through quickly versus the things that you kind of have to 58 00:03:51.439 --> 00:03:55.120 you dwell in longer. If you're a leader, you are still going through 59 00:03:55.159 --> 00:04:00.240 that as an employee, but you also have a responsibility to kind of help 60 00:04:00.280 --> 00:04:05.719 your people transition through the process as well. And sometimes your people will have 61 00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:13.360 different places on this kind of cycle that they naturally gravitate towards. And when 62 00:04:13.400 --> 00:04:15.360 a lot of leaders get tripped up in this, it's when they treat all 63 00:04:15.360 --> 00:04:18.800 of their employees in the exact same way, or they treat their employees in 64 00:04:18.839 --> 00:04:23.680 the way that they themselves are reacting to this and You see this. Where 65 00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:27.759 this kind of rears its head is when you, as the employee, are 66 00:04:27.879 --> 00:04:31.439 feeling either either denial, anxiety, shock, resistance, fearing, or frustration, 67 00:04:31.560 --> 00:04:35.879 any any of those, and you go to your boss and the response 68 00:04:36.079 --> 00:04:41.439 is already at enthusiasm, like, oh, this is going to be amazing, 69 00:04:41.680 --> 00:04:45.279 right, you know. So if the if the boss is there, 70 00:04:45.800 --> 00:04:48.240 it means one of two things. Either they started this process a long time 71 00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:53.879 ago and failed miserably to bring you along for the ride, or they're lying. 72 00:04:54.160 --> 00:04:58.560 They're not actually enthusiastic about it yet there's somewhere else in this transition period, 73 00:04:59.000 --> 00:05:04.319 and and they believe their responsibility as a leader is to exude enthusiasm in 74 00:05:04.360 --> 00:05:10.160 the hopes that you will kind of use their example to make it through the 75 00:05:10.199 --> 00:05:14.079 rest of these things. And all that does is you see right through it 76 00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:16.720 as the employee. When my leader does that, I see right through that, 77 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:20.759 because there's no way they're enthusiastic about something they just heard about the day 78 00:05:20.800 --> 00:05:25.800 before. Instead, they're trying to fake it till they make it, or 79 00:05:26.519 --> 00:05:30.680 they don't even worse, they don't care they're enthusiastic because in their mind they've 80 00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:32.759 drink the kool aid it's their job, and they move through it without having 81 00:05:32.759 --> 00:05:35.920 to go through these things. But that isn't how you can lead a team 82 00:05:35.920 --> 00:05:41.040 of people who go through these actual issues. And so what I'll ask you, 83 00:05:41.079 --> 00:05:43.800 Lorenzo, is I want to know about where you get stuck in here. 84 00:05:43.959 --> 00:05:47.199 You say you kind of naturally start at the anger slash frustration phase, 85 00:05:47.600 --> 00:05:51.680 not really in the anxiety or shock or resistance or fear part. But as 86 00:05:51.680 --> 00:05:56.319 you move through these transitions, where do you get stuck as a leader and 87 00:05:56.519 --> 00:05:59.680 how do you get through that in helping your people get through it as well? 88 00:05:59.720 --> 00:06:00.079 So I want to ask you that. At first, I want to 89 00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:03.040 get up toward it from our sponsors. All right, the runs, Oh, 90 00:06:03.040 --> 00:06:06.839 where do you find yourself spending the most amount of time in this transition 91 00:06:08.079 --> 00:06:10.319 period? And how do you how do you up your people get through it? 92 00:06:10.399 --> 00:06:13.639 No, it's a great question. I think the two places where I 93 00:06:13.680 --> 00:06:18.399 get stuck in this is I think in just the elements of the frustration piece, 94 00:06:18.600 --> 00:06:24.160 when I really am not connecting the dots and understanding from a long term 95 00:06:24.360 --> 00:06:29.240 standput, Like I understand that change is necessary. I know that sometimes many 96 00:06:29.279 --> 00:06:33.199 times we have to just do things for the moment, but also my brain 97 00:06:33.279 --> 00:06:36.079 in the way that I'm wired, I think about like the long tail on 98 00:06:36.120 --> 00:06:39.879 this, like how is this going to have an impact long tail? And 99 00:06:40.160 --> 00:06:43.480 and have we considered those things? You know? My hope and belief is 100 00:06:43.519 --> 00:06:48.279 that they have been considered. But sometimes like I feel like this, this 101 00:06:48.360 --> 00:06:51.519 is going to cause more harm than good in the long term, so I 102 00:06:51.959 --> 00:06:56.040 tend to get stuck a little bit there and slows me down. But then 103 00:06:56.079 --> 00:07:02.439 really for me, impatience, like like in specifically the impatience around even though 104 00:07:02.680 --> 00:07:08.360 I might feel a certain way about this, even though I may, you 105 00:07:08.360 --> 00:07:13.680 know, have this just feelings about what's going on, I firmly believe that 106 00:07:13.720 --> 00:07:17.680 we have this responsibility as leaders to what you said earlier, which is bring 107 00:07:17.720 --> 00:07:21.120 our people along, meet them where they're at, and help them work through 108 00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:25.319 this change because feeling the way that you're gonna feel about it's not going to 109 00:07:25.439 --> 00:07:28.519 change things. Because I gonna change this, like this is the thing that 110 00:07:28.519 --> 00:07:33.839 we're going to go do. And so sometimes the impatience thing around other people 111 00:07:34.040 --> 00:07:40.720 or other leaders holding on to some of these previous emotions for too long of 112 00:07:40.839 --> 00:07:45.680 like I understand that you're upset. I get that maybe you're frustrated. Yes, 113 00:07:45.839 --> 00:07:47.800 like, like I could acknowledge that people are working through these types of 114 00:07:47.839 --> 00:07:51.439 things, which you do have to move beyond them if we ever have a 115 00:07:51.519 --> 00:07:56.920 chance to get into like the ability to be creative and to figure this out 116 00:07:57.040 --> 00:08:00.759 and to you know, eventually have an impact on the work itself and kind 117 00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:03.839 of moved this forward. That for me, I think is where I get 118 00:08:03.879 --> 00:08:07.319 stuck the most. It's just like giving people the time to process or work 119 00:08:07.319 --> 00:08:09.439 through the things, but then having some of them still stuck and not wanted 120 00:08:09.480 --> 00:08:13.639 to move forward. Yeah, I agree. I think that's everybody gets to 121 00:08:13.800 --> 00:08:18.600 the acceptance phase, which is right before impatience. Everybody gets to the acceptance 122 00:08:18.600 --> 00:08:24.800 phase on their own timeline. And once you're there, it can be hard 123 00:08:24.839 --> 00:08:28.079 when the rest of your organization or your colleagues aren't there alongside you. It's 124 00:08:28.120 --> 00:08:31.120 possible some of them got there before you. It's possible that some of them 125 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:35.639 got there before you and they were frustrated at your lack of acceptance. And 126 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:39.039 then once you get there, now you get to be frustrated at their lack 127 00:08:39.080 --> 00:08:43.720 of acceptance, you know, like they're at at other people in the organization. 128 00:08:43.039 --> 00:08:48.679 That's when you've moved into the kind of impatience phase. But it's it's 129 00:08:48.720 --> 00:08:52.600 interesting how this process works, and it's whether it's a small change or a 130 00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:56.799 large change. It could be, you know, being fired from an organization, 131 00:08:56.200 --> 00:08:58.559 or it could be, hey, we're going to change this computer system 132 00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:01.200 from this one on to this one, and it's going to change the way 133 00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:05.200 that you do this one process that might have not to five percent of your 134 00:09:05.399 --> 00:09:09.399 of your of your day job. Um. So regardless of it, it's 135 00:09:09.440 --> 00:09:13.519 just the levels of these emotions are different depending on how impactful that changes to 136 00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:16.519 your life. But but make no mistake, if you're a leader, there's 137 00:09:16.559 --> 00:09:22.679 gonna be this this transition that occurs with all of your employees, and it's 138 00:09:22.720 --> 00:09:26.279 your job to kind of recognize where your employees are falling along this this kind 139 00:09:26.279 --> 00:09:31.039 of roadmap, um and meeting them where they are in a way that is 140 00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:37.840 genuine that doesn't doesn't give off that you are um somehow immune to this phase, 141 00:09:37.240 --> 00:09:39.879 to this process, that you go through it as well. UM, 142 00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:48.320 but you have kind of a maybe a healthy history of experience of going through 143 00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:50.679 similar things and knowing that it's going to be okay because you've been through it 144 00:09:50.679 --> 00:09:54.840 before, being able to share those experiences with your employees might help them get 145 00:09:54.840 --> 00:09:58.200 through that a little bit better. Um, you know, devaluing their experience 146 00:09:58.360 --> 00:10:01.559 or or getting frustrated with them for not being where you are, it is 147 00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:03.480 not the way to help them through it. Yeah, and I want to 148 00:10:03.480 --> 00:10:05.759 call it out. I think I'm happy that you said that because I think 149 00:10:05.759 --> 00:10:11.320 it's important to say that. You can acknowledge that you have also been through 150 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:16.559 some of these stages, but you cannot be dismissive in where they're at, 151 00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:18.759 So you cannot say like, oh, like like when I first heard this 152 00:10:18.799 --> 00:10:22.279 too, Chris Man, I was like, what the heck is going on? 153 00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:24.000 So like I totally get it, but like let's move beyond that now. 154 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:28.200 Like you, you don't get to just stay there like you want to 155 00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:31.320 acknowledge and be like, hey, I totally understand it. Like like I, 156 00:10:31.399 --> 00:10:33.519 you know, initially when we have changed like this, I have very 157 00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:39.279 similar feelings, very similar emotions. You know, a couple things that helped 158 00:10:39.320 --> 00:10:41.559 me kind of work through it or maybe this, this and that, but 159 00:10:41.639 --> 00:10:43.759 this is about you right now, so like like like you know, what 160 00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:46.240 what do you want to talk about or like how do you want to kind 161 00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:48.799 of talk through this or what can I share with you that might be helpful 162 00:10:50.600 --> 00:10:52.919 as we're considering this change in the work that we need to do. So 163 00:10:52.960 --> 00:10:56.240 like, I think that's important because I think that happens too. It was 164 00:10:56.240 --> 00:10:58.440 like, oh you know, yep, hey, I get it. When 165 00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:01.840 I first heard it last week, I was really mad too, but like 166 00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:03.120 it is what it is. Where are where we are, So like let's 167 00:11:03.120 --> 00:11:05.679 go, Like that's not going to help you, you know, get people 168 00:11:05.679 --> 00:11:09.519 through the process. No, not at all. If by the nature of 169 00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:16.559 organizations is that the knowledge or the strategy trickles down, and so the higher 170 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:20.120 up you are in the organization, the earlier you were able to start this 171 00:11:20.200 --> 00:11:24.879 process. And if you're hearing, if you're giving the information to your people, 172 00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:28.279 the idea that you had, you know, one day or one week 173 00:11:28.360 --> 00:11:30.840 or one month to be able to get through this and now you expect them 174 00:11:30.840 --> 00:11:33.519 to be where you are is insane. Like you you need to at least 175 00:11:33.559 --> 00:11:39.840 give them the leeway that you were given by your boss. And you need 176 00:11:39.879 --> 00:11:43.120 to also take into account that maybe you've done this before and so it's easier 177 00:11:43.159 --> 00:11:48.399 to move through these things than it is for your people, or maybe because 178 00:11:48.399 --> 00:11:52.440 of your position, you're impacted less by it than they are. Maybe all 179 00:11:52.440 --> 00:11:54.639 your job is is to hold them accountable to the change that's impacting them that 180 00:11:54.840 --> 00:11:58.240 isn't impacting you at all. So keep that in mind too when when you're 181 00:11:58.399 --> 00:12:01.960 kind of deliver bring news and you're kind of helping them get along. Allow 182 00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:07.639 them to move through the process in their own pace. As long as it 183 00:12:07.879 --> 00:12:09.720 is they are clearly moving through it. They can't they can't get stuck too 184 00:12:09.759 --> 00:12:13.679 long in one area, but they need to be able to move through it 185 00:12:13.679 --> 00:12:16.440 absolutely and well that it brings us at the end of this episode, this 186 00:12:16.519 --> 00:12:18.639 is hacking leadership. I'm Lorenzo and I'm Chris, and have a great day.