You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network, the best in paranormal talk radio
in the UK and around the world. Hello world, you're listening to Eleanor
Wagner's Strange and Scary world here on the Paranormal UK Radio Network, where we're
always creeping it real. I'm your host, Eleanor Wagner. Welcome all to
my paranormal Closet where the stories and magic take place. My guest today is
an author and YouTuber. His book on Monsters is what caught my attention.
Please join me in welcoming Josh nan o'kio. Hi Andy, I'm great,
Thank you, thanks for joining me. I don't know if you know it,
but I write about true account hauntings and other strange phenomena. So I
was fascinated enough about your book Monsters to want to have you as a guest
on my show because I'm finding there's a lot more are out there than I
even realized. Big Foot on familiar with since I specifically added other strange Phenomena
to my original title because of all of the Bigfoot stories coming into me from
around my county, even very recent sightings, and they were so good I
had to do something to be able to get them into a ghost book.
But there are others I'm unfamiliar with, like Dogman, for instance, What
is that all about? Dogman is like that. I don't want to say
it's a new phenomenal because it's been around for it's been around for a minute,
but it seems like it's kind of just recently, like the last ten
or fifteen years, really come onto the Internet. And I think part of
it is also people's just fascination with the concept of werewolves. But dogmen are
not werewolves. And so like even my son who always asked me, he's
like, what's what's the difference, I'm like, well, you know,
the easiest way to break it down is is werewolves are obviously, you know,
fictitious things that we've paid for Hollywood movies that they involved someone shape shifting
under a certain condition, like for example, like a full moon. But
a dogman is physically they're almost the same, but they're their own, they're
like, ay, their own creature. They're encrypted that there's something that that's
been around for hundreds and hundreds of years. If you go back you look
at a lot of the stories of like the Choctaw and the Apache and Chickasaw.
They all have these crazy stories of like fighting dog people, dog humans,
wolf humans. It's really frightening. I mean, there's stories that range
Oliver but definitely the Midwest, a lot right around the Oklahoma specifically if you
go up forgive me because I'm not too familiar with the names of the tribes
up north. I know the Algone Quinn, but that they got stories too.
I know people talk about window goes and stuff like that in their folklore,
but there's a lot of stories from just the tribes alone from the Midwest
up to the north of just encountering these beings. Now that kind of takes
us to modern day, and it seems like the last I kind of became
aware of it probably around twenty fourteen, but I think it's been servicing on
the internet probably closer to I can't give exact dates here because I don't know,
but I'm assimbly probably the end of the two thousand tens ish or a
thousand nine ish people are just talking about, Hey, you know, like
when I was growing up, I had an encounter with this like dog like
thing. I don't know what it was, and so I'm not exactly sure
where the name Dogman took place, but media are some of these stories where
it's Hayleiss something my grand Patty, for like the nineteen fifties, was out
hunting and he came across this wolf human thing. Back then, you know
that there's no concept of a werewolf. You just do. You don't know
what it was. It was just a thing that you just you're scared of.
You know, it's some sort of Alva predator. I don't know.
And I've obviously, you know, with the nineteen eighties and nineteen sevent nation
and we had the American well from London, you know, we had Silver
Bullet, we had gosh that there's just a plethora of where movies came out.
I think that really kind of helped shape the werewolf cultures. So now
people have that in their heads. They're like, oh, I saw a
werewolf, but I think it's actually whatever or whatever these what all these trees
are that people are saying the Dogman. Yeah, so now it's just kind
of taken out a life of its own, and they're coming out a lot
of people are sharing encounters. I've had some really terrifying one shared with me
there's one in the books specifically that talks about I think it's like one of
the first ones. There's a gentleman who is driving his truck late at night.
There's something that happened with this engine. I don't remember what it was,
but he pulls over the side of the road. And it's been a
while since I read the story, so forgive me. But in essence,
he hears a noise, turns around. There's a dead deer, and he
sees his long hand come out and grab it, and a wolf like head
pop out and it literally terrifies him. But of course that's just one of
hundreds, I know it kind of. He has a host of dogman stories.
The National American Dogman Project, believe that's what it's called. Should They
have hundreds and hundreds of encounters that people asmitted to them phantoms and monsters,
But you know, with Lawn Strickler, hundreds and hundreds of encounters were dogmans.
I mean, like, it's just you don't have to go very far
to see that people all over the United States are encountering some sort of bipedal
wolf, which is completely terrifying. Help it answer that question? Oh?
It sort it sure? Does Now what about flying humanoid? Well, that's
its own rabbit hole. So in my time to what I've done, I've
also ran across a lot of them. Which ones you want to talk about?
I mean there's there's there's a bunch of different kinds. Yeah. Some
people report fairy like beings, like not like the Disney tinker Bell, but
like actually like smaller human aoid looking things all the way to kind of gargoile
looking things out hey. In my world, they've been referred to as elementals
because I've had people calling insane, Yeah, elementals like fairies. It was
some elderly gentleman, he's like eighty six years old, and he's a follower
of mine, and he messaged me and he said, oh, because he
likes going out for his walks with his dog, and he likes taken his
phone because he loves to take pictures of the deer herds and just things that
randomly grab his attention. And I also feel that he's extremely sensitive to this
sort of thing because he'll see something I want to take a picture of it,
and then he'll go back home and he'll look at his pictures and he'll
be like, oh, oh, my gosh, look what I caught.
So he is definitely sensitive to spirit and these things to some respect for him
to pick this up on his camera. But he sends me this picture of
he says, I think it's a Leprichn and no shit, I look at
this thing in this picture, and everybody that I've shared the picture which says,
they feel it's an elemental but it looks like a freaking leprichn. Move
look like this little guy, you know, sant and air like with this
bigsmark in the middle of a deer herd. I'll have to send you the
picture and get your take on it. But he is just so perplexed.
But he's convinced that it's something, and he says, now when he goes
back to that particular area, he catches it quite often, so it must
live in this field where the deer herd traverse. It sounds to me like
what you're describing is a is a fairy. And I say that because so
Josh Cutchin for any of you listening, if anybody knows what is he is
a very big forty and paranormal researcher author and his specialty is focal or fairies.
And things like that, and he actually works for me. He really
educated me on the whole fairy thing, like kind of describe more what they
are and how they they've kind of come from Europe and how they were here
and what they do and I'm like, oh my gosh. And so a
lot of citings like that, Like little people. There's so many stories of
people finding my viewees, I don't want to say little people, but oddly
dressed people that look almost like look elegant or something in the woods they're gone
the next second. Or people being taken underground like a herd of it.
Let's say a herd, but maybe like a colony of these smaller people,
maybe like the big pigmy people. Just all sorts of stuff. I'm not
too knowledgeable on the fairy aspect, but Josh is very educated on that.
So I have a few videos kind of goes over that. But that's such
a that's such a deep interesting topic. In fact, there was one story,
and I believe it was from around the eighteen hundreds nineteen hundreds, where
a boy who was out playing was approached by a mysterious woman who had led
him to a house where there was a party. But apparently when his family
went out looking for him like that, there was no such house, there
was no such person living where they were, and so he's convinced it was
like you know, fairies or woodland beings who just made themselves known to him.
I'm giving like a very shortened verse of the story, but that's seen
essence what it was. But it's just like wow, like there's there's some
staff going on that we have no idea and why you why they keep themselves
invisible? Do you think it's interdimensional? And why are they here? What
are they doing? Yeah? I think we have to look back to a
lot of I don't want to say, you know, a lot of native
tribes have the answers, but they certainly have a lot more information than modern
day society because I feel like, you know, if you look at a
lot of modern day society, they kind of scoffed this stuff. It's it's
pseudoscience. It's not legitimate to them. Yeah, And I understand, like
from a from a pen and paper perspective, I get it. But you
go back and hear all these stories from all these different tribes and you look
at there, I would to say that their folklore but you look at their
legends in there, and they all tell the same stories over and over.
They're just with different names in different locations. I'm talking with the Seminoles,
I'm talking about the Choked, I'm talking about the Apache. It doesn't matter
who it is, they all got something similar. Then then, so you
take that as your foundation, right, and then you start to like kind
of hear more of like the first hand accounts and not just like a modern
day twenty fifteen account. I'm talking accounts from fur trappers and hunters and trackers
from like the eighteen hundreds were like, hey, you know, I was
out looking for deer or for a buck, and I came across this two
foot tall being and then he was gone or he took me under ground.
They didn't then't know what the heck that stuff was. They had no concept
of a ferry or a tinker bell, which just we don't know what it
is. But they're kind of just obscure writings, as most people claim,
because it's like a one off account here, one off account there, But
there is some historical documentation that does talk about it, and you kind of
move into more modern times to everybody has the cell phone, everybody can kind
of tell about their account, and there's just a lot more of this stuff.
Clearly there's something going on that we didn't know. But I want to
go back to the flying thing for them because that kind of does attach to
it in a way. You had mentioned initially, did mention the berries,
You mentioned elementals. What I think is interesting that the elemental discussion is that
people have reported seeing bat squatched some sort of like large hairy bat like creature.
I've heard people seeing carriage like clothman kind of mothman sort of thing,
mothman, thunderbird that that's a whole other thing. And apparently a lot of
natives had stories about that coming with a storm. Apparently there's a lot of
stories of it, like stealing women and children from the field word where they're
gathering wheat and stuff. Talking about a not like a condo. We're talking
about a massive, massive bird that had supernatural powers to it. I mentioned
the dinosaur thing that that's been happening a lot more recently. Just apparently anything
that flies, reptilian bat looking whatever, mothman, gargoyle, that's another big
one. I see a lot of. In fact, I've seen a lot
of accounts that people refer to the have you ever seen jeepers creepers? Well,
if anyone, I was, I was thinking of that when you said
the flying that like thing, jeepers creepers is saying, they came to my
mind. I've talked about seeing jeepers creepers looking like things, and just it
seems I have to kind of be careful here because I know some people are
in this realm of cryptozology, are very much in this box where like everything
is just strictly flesh and blood. We don't have answers. Other people are
like, well, these have to be supernatural. I'm definitely in the I
leaned towards them, like it would make sense of these are supernatural because they
can go in and out of our dimension. And a great way to think
about that, because I know a lot of people get like, well not,
well wait a minute, if you look at it. And then I've
actually discovered this girl on YouTube. I I can't remember her name, but
she actually explains the dimensional thing. So if you're three D looking in at
two D, you can pretty much alter anywhere on the plane. You could
see past, you could see present, you could see future, and you
could alter things on a two D plane without a two D person, assuming
that one existed without them ever knowing. Right, So we're obvious see dealing
with entities that are potentially fourth dimensional, if not more, which means that
they can come in alter do things on our timeline at any given time.
In fact, there is I'm trying to remember what it was. There's a
thing on Facebook I saw where someone had taken a picture of this same location
every single day for three and to sixty five days, and they stitch it
together and it was like this perfect panoramic shot of January first, December first,
but each day was this tiny sliver, so it looked like it faded
from winter to spring to summer to obviously like back to fall. And someone
had mentioned they're like, hey, this is kind of like a really crude
illustration of what forty looks like, and it kind of clicked to me,
and I'm like, this is probably somewhat where a forty person can see on
a timeline where I'm hey, like I can go in at any point in
this time and they can't even because like a two D person couldn't see a
thre dy person. That's the same way we couldn't see fourth dimension, So
it would make sense that a fourth dimensional being of some kind could come to
any point and do what they want and then then also vanished. It would
have no idea they're manipulating our time and space. So there's there's a little
bit of science, some crude science for you. But I'm like everyone else.
I not some PhD academic or academia. I just I'm just trying to
look for answers like anybody else, and hopefully confind some just using some explanations.
Well it has to be this because of this, and you know,
you look at all these other accounts, I get to a point where I'm
flesh and blood just doesn't make sense that there's just too many bizarre accounts,
too many accounts that are attached with like demonic behavior, too many accounts that
that come off as spiritual where there's like spiritual qualities to it, whether it
be an ode or whether it be behavioral, whether it be they're here,
they're gone, or they do impossible things, you know what I mean.
So I don't know if I really hold onto the flesh and blood thing,
But then there are other things that would make me think that way. So
obviously, there's there's plenty of bigfoot accounts where people have physically shot and or
killed these creatures. I've never heard at you, Well, I shouldn't say
never heard it. I heard, like in the eighteen hundred, somebody during
a hunting excursion shot a hairy being. That's the only thing I've ever heard.
I've never heard of anything more recent, have you? Justin Smega supposedly
shot and killed one. But I don't know too much of his authenticity.
Some people say he's lying. You know, I'm not an expert with a
guy. I just that's his supposed the story that he shot and killed one
of a young one of these things. For those that don't know the story,
the very condensed version is that he was out hunting in the Sierra Nevada.
So I'm trying to see if I remember this. I think I'm trying
to see if the mother something went past him, something was near him.
He tried to shoot at it, and for some reason a young ling came
to him and he shot in the face. Or he don't. He did
say he knew he killed the youngling, and that they were looking at it
and it wasn't like a baby. He was probably like, I don't know,
just a juvenile and him and his partner were looking at it and they're
like, oh, it's ugly. You know, it looks like a chimpanzee,
or it looks like something they don't or what. They didn't know what
it was. They weren't like, oh wait, they were just like,
oh, I don't know what this thing is. And so that was so
when people are well, they are flushing. But how do you explain these
stories? I don't no, you know, I don't know what the trail.
I don't know if there's certain beings that are strictly supernatural. I don't
know if they can come in and out and then also they manifest and stay
in this dimension. I don't have a book on that. But what I
do find interesting as that there's also multiple stories are like people, it kind
of goes both ways. Where people shooting a dogman either the bullets do nothing,
they bounce off the coat it doesn't have an effect, or they shoot
at it and there is blood and it and there is something. Sorry I'm
trying to say with my cats in here, that's the right you can hello,
Adam. It's either one or the other. And so That's why I'm
always like there's stories that kind of provide both, But in my opinion,
I feel like there's far more stories that kind of aim for the whole that's
definitely kind of supernatural that it is. I'm questioned that other guy's account of
shooting a juvenile. What happened to the carcass? You didn't think it was
strange enough for you to keep it and bring it back and show the world.
I mean, you could have had a million dollar picture right there,
or a million dollar calf. Let me get to it, because this is
a really great topic. So we're in a field, right, what where
people are desperate, they're hungry for photo, video evidence. Right. I
get a lot of complaints for like, how come you're just telling me bull
sense or should be bull crap stories with no video or picture. I don't
really get video and picture. And if if here's the thing too, if
I were to get really compelling video and picture, even if I were to
post it, there'd probably be a quarter of people that are like, oh
wow, that's like that's awesome, Like that's really convincing. But the majority
people, no matter how good, would say it's a hoax. I mean,
think, for example, if you've got a photo of Bigfoot, you
were twenty feet away from the guy and you had a DSLR camera right high
quality. He snapped at perfect camera. How many even even though it's legitimate,
you're like, holy crap, I'm the first person ever you take an
actual in focus picture Bigfoot. Think of the majority of people, probably nine
at a ten we'd like, oh, it's a hoax, it's too perfect.
But if I got this park like no winning that bet your bottom dollar
be dragging that carcass back into society. Just like in Jewels when they put
that fish and they hung it from the hawk and said, look what we
I would have been doing the same thing now that I would have. I
wouldn't have a shot at it. I wouldn't have a tried to coll sets
and eight. Yes I'm not, but if that's what they did, I
would have been that person to take and go look what I got. I
would have brought the news in. I would have brought everybody in and said
make what you want of it. I don't care if you believe it or
not, but here it here, this shit is you know what I mean?
Wants to pay me for the carcass and why who knows? That's I
was my thinking too. I think he took a picture of it, but
I'm like, why would I would put that carcass on my back and I
would dragging him like yeah, freakin wantly, yep, damn straight. That's
that's that's the money thing right there. If you shot this thing, even
it was an accident, and you shot because you got the ships get out
of you and this thing came at you and you just you didn't know what
the hell was and you shot it, I would have definitely brought that back
and gotten something for it. So that's that's my take on it, and
not how true it is. I mean, he got attention, but he
could have gotten way more attention and some money out of it if he was
looking right. I'm not agree and orchly I feel I feel like this kind
of thing right here, along with the picture thing I was high, is
probably why this field will always you looked at. Its just pseudoscience and like
having no factual basis, just because how do you operate in a field of
I guess you want to say science, because science is just data where there's
no linature, which everything's anecdotal. Everything is firsthand accounts. I could see
why most skeptics are like, you know, I's just I have a hard
time buying it. But then do you have all these people, these poor
people who have had actual, like firsthand encounters, and they're terrified. They
don't know how to explain it. They're just like, listen, I was
here, I was doing this and this happened to me. I don't I
don't have the science to explain it. I know it's real. I'm terrified
of it, you know. And what do you do with these people?
There's thousands of them, thousands I've I've read and heard and just you hear
so many accounts, and I know people say, well, I'm sure there's
a lot that are lying, which, yeah, of course there are.
You have to factor then end. But there's no way that every single everybody
as correct. Way do you get the story from Do people reach out to
you and say, hey, I have a monster story to share with you.
Now, I don't think anyone's used the world. I have a monster
story, but you were had a weird experience. For example, in the
book, there's a gentleman who reached out to me. It's one of the
Bigfoot stories. Actually him and his buddy they went hunting on that private ground
in Florida. So if anyone has the book they want to read the story,
refresh my memory. Yeah, it was this hunting ground. I say
it's a hunting ground, but it was just private, private land owned by
company. I can't remember the because it's been a while. So there read
the story. But anyway, they get permission, they go there. They're
all alone in an RV with four wheelers and they started getting attacked by They
didn't know what the heck these things are. They weren't like, oh it's
it's a skut gig. They were just saying that these large things they're beating
on the trailer, they're pounding the truny. They were very very hostile or
his style against them, very aggressive, and so they had they had to
leave like the following morning. But if you read it that, you're like,
oh my gosh, this is terrifying. I have a personal friend here
up in Sussex County who has had his encounters with big Foot in this area
and the same it's a hostile encounter where he and his family were in there
camper and these things went at it. So I've heard those kind of stories
before, for sure. Yeah, it's just it's it's incredibly frightening obviously,
like Dogman, like, that's a whole other thing that that people talk about
that's incredibly frightening as well, just because a lot of the nature of those
are very violent. Fortunately, there are stories where people don't live to tail
the tale. Probably when if someone were asking, like, what's what's probably
one of the most disturbing, chilling dogmin accounts you ever come across, The
only one, I mean, there are several, but probably the most recent
and the one that comes to mind is the story of Joe Barger forgive me
Joe if I'm pronounced you staying wrong. I met him at a Doglin conference
last year. Funny enough, he wasn't like oire getting attention. I was
sitting at a table talk of Tony Merkel and him and I were just chatting.
I don't remember what we were I think we were talking about Doglin,
I do I I don't remember what the what we were saying, but he's
just kind of like listening it kind of times and he's like, yeah,
I shot one, and Tony and I are like, look at each other,
and we looked at him. We're like what. He's like, yeah,
like I shot and killed and he was trying to get in my truck.
I'm like, please sit down and tell us and say. He's like,
all right, I can tell you. She's very calm. He's like,
well, you know, basically, long story short. I was a
truck driver. I think it was back in like twenty sixteen. He was
up in Michigan, I don't I don't remember which part of northern part.
He was going up the hill and as a trucker he had to be like
ship gears. So he's going like, you know, maybe twenty five miles
and he looks up and there's this thing riding right alongside his window, looking
in right at him, and it's not like looking at him, but it's
also like looking down at the door, and you could tell there's intelligence in
his eyes, but it's also trying to find a way in his truck.
And it reaches its hand in because he has to window partably down and it's
trying to stick his hand in to find some some way to open the door
to get to Joe. Now, Joe has his I believe he had a
three forty seven right there on his um an office on the seat or the
what somebody will help me out here in the eye whatever this tap on in
the cab on the kind of Oh yeah, he's you know, the poor
guy's going twenty five miles and are you know he's got a big load behind
he's going up a grade. He's like he can like floor it, and
so he just grabs his thing and shoots it right in the head. It
falls down. But apparently he was thinking that there was another one coming up
to flank him on the left hand side because he wasn't taking his mirror ear
So anyway, I guess he comes around the area and I guess there's like
there's a strange couple. I would say a strange couple, but there's a
couple. They're standing kind of like right near the spot, and I'm hoping
him telling the story, right, there's a couple the spot and he kind
of stops. He's like, hey, is everything okay? They're like yeah,
They're like there's just some weird sounds going off from the woods. It
sounds like two bears fighting, and I believe the body that was their initially
was now gone. Either something dragged it away. There's more to the story
than that, folks. You have to go and check that episode out.
But that's basically you in a nutshow what it was and what he was just
telling this. It was just it was he wasn't like sitting there telling the
story. He was just like, hey, you know, I'm you know,
doing this and I see this thing and I'm like, he need to
describe it in detail. He's like, yeah, you know, I had
this and out of this, and you could tell it was really tough for
him to recall. And I'm thinking to myself, I've never in my life
sat down with a with a human being face to face and like then like
genuinely tell me their experience. It's always been like over email, over the
phone. But like, dude, I shot this big foot man and I'm
like, okay, that's cool you now. But he was so you could
actually I see he being boasted in the facial. Let's say he's like,
I don't want anything from this. He's like, I just I'm just,
you know, I kind of want to forget about it. You know.
It was because like I don't know what the heck it is. He didn't
say it was Awarewolf He never used that word. He just says, I
don't know what it was. It was just big. It was tall.
It looked like a wolf, and it was trying to get my truck.
Itt used its hand. It was smart enough to know that what what the
door handle is, and it couldn't figure it out. But he said it
kept looking at him and look down at the door. And as he's saying
that, like, I'm just getting chills because I like the fact that it's
inten you have to know to open the door and get into get to you.
But he said it was it was probably like ten feet. It was
huge, just a massive thing face. Obviously it fell down and you know,
started to like do the death convulsion. It just it was right there
in the It's not a ditch, but it's a part of the road that
kind of like dip divots down, you know. I don't want to say
it was a ditch because it wasn't ditch, but anyway, people get the
ideas on the side of the road. Yeah, but that's probably one of
the stories where I'm like, wow, like that's well, but there's there's
a caveat right, There's more to it, So I guess six months later,
wasn't that too much? Long later, he actually gets detained by an
unmarked STV of some kind and he gets brought to a location and they start
like questioning him and saying like, oh, you know, we can make
everything, we can make your entire career go away, we can freeze your
bank account, and they're He's based like, like, what do you guys
want for me? He's like they basically told him, like, you killed
one of our assets. You remember that. And he's like and they're like,
you know, you shouldn't be talking about this, Like you don't need
to be you don't need to say nothing. They weren't going to work from
this government. They didn't, they didn't say, so it's just what the
heck is going on? Is he like? Twenty five, twenty seventeen,
And so he's like, yeah, I stayed quite about it for years.
That's why he's kind of like, you know, I don't really want anything
from this. He's this is just you know, I'm just per like what
person a person tell you? And I was like, can I tell your
story on my show? He's like, yeah, it's fine, you know,
that's okay, go for it. I was just like Wow, checked
to see he's have you checked recently as ze if he's still around around So
government engineered in scientific lab create a creator. Oh oh my god. I've
heard that the military uses these as weapons or they have I guess a sect
of them as weapons. But nope, kidding now, it totally knows what
what they have that that that they have. I've heard people tell me supposedly
from the inside, that they have their own like thing of these things.
And a lot of times what you're saying now is once they're loose, that
are killing people. I don't know, you know, for all I know,
i'd probably have plants emailing me give me purposely giving me misinformation to share.
I don't know who knows either way. Yikes, that doesn't make going
to stay inside nothing well well even that jeepers creepers one damn after that movie,
and you think this actually something out there like that? Oh, oh
my god, no, thank you. Getting off the monster topic, what
do you make of the most recent UFOs starting in Nevada? Was it Nevada,
Las Vegas? It was I think where recently it was like this whole
neighborhood of people saw this thing in the sky and then next thing, they
know, these see these gray beings, and there were so many. It
was on the news. It was on media, mainstream media, and they
were talking about how all of these people in this neighborhood saw this thing.
And the cops even came and got something on their camera and they actually showed
that footage. It almost sounds like it was something that happened, and somebody
said it could have been a media but the fact that they it was followed
by them seeing these gray beings and so many different people in different instances in
that neighborhood having an account. There's actually some young kid, I think probably
eighteen or nineteen who actually did a TikTok on what he saw on it.
So you could probably catch that somewhere, but I caught it on mainstream media
and the news. I was like, what what is this that they actually
are recording it? You didn't hear anything about that. It was a couple
weeks ago. I mean I don't. I don't actively like always look for
this stuff, but a lot of times I have people that will bring these
things to my attention. But I'm just now seeing some things about it that
they saw strange aliens or you know they saw ten beats up. Here's the
thing. I feel like, definitely more than ever, you're going to start
seeing a lot more of this stuff. I don't know what the media's agenda
is. I don't mean to sound really conspiratorial here, but it seems like
there's this thing right now where they're really trying to slowly push their narrative that
UFOs are here and that they're going to start having more sightings and that,
you know. So I don't know if that's legitimate. I don't know if
that's just my own thinking, but it kind of it kind of appears that
way because it's now it's like every sense you had the whole you know,
the Pentagon's releasing information with the UFOs here all this whole time, and it's
like it's almost like they're kind of slowly warming the pupp gearing us up to
sing yeah, yeah, yet to what. I don't think anybody knows yet.
So, you know, it's hard to say, and I'm saying that
because like that's just how they're kind of approaching it. But at the same
time a lot of people are also saying, you know, it could be
a meteor, could be this. But then you have, Like you're saying
a lot of people who are like, hey, I legit saw ten foot
tall like alien being like like, you can't, that's not a meteor.
How do you make that up? Yeah, you know, I know.
But the fact that it's becoming more mainstream is definitely I would definitely say it's
frightening because that, you know, whereas like twenty years ago, it wouldn't
have it would have been quickly swept into the rug. But it's like the
fact that they're like making it mainstream means that they're definitely trying to condition and
warm warm society to the idea of it. It's that way when something big
happens to maybe, like I don't know, even when they come out and
say, hey, we've been here this whole time, where your gods,
now ever ever religion you've ever established is wrong, we're the right way to
mean that. That seems like how you would pave the way to that if
that's hate, it could be wrong. You know, I'm not claiming that's
what it is, but who knows, you know, I don't know,
But to kind of like go directly back to what you're talking about specifically,
I definitely know that like Las Vegas, Arizona, New Mexico. That there's
especially California, like Los Angeles. Southern California is a huge hotbed for u
at bow and just light anomalies, seeing grays abductions. There's also cattle mutilation.
That area is just a hotbed for it, all the way down to
like Western Texas. I'm not sure why. I know people talk about the
dumbs, the deep underground military bases. They're like dulcie paraphyt one. I
don't know how much the connection that has with the amount of accountslor is.
But I can't say this as something's going on, something strange is happening,
hell, which you've been investigating and researching this stuff. I don't know if
I would say investigating and researching, but yeah, because when I think that,
I think like guys who do it like really seriously, they're they're doing
all day every day. I mean it's more of like like a passionate hobby
of mine, like looking to this stuff, probably since like twenty fourteen,
twenty fifteen, like it's I kind of got I can actually remember it vividly.
This is back in twenty thirteen. I was I was on the bus
ride home from a place that I was interning out at the time, and
I don't remember why, but I was like, I just want to like
read like Bigfoot stories, like Bigfoot accounts, and I remember I had just
like when I kind of first hop hopped on the BFR and just start reading
account and then that would further evolve into um, looking at like Dogman Encounters
and kind of listening to those podcasts, and it would just kept like evolving
and to the next thing and like listening to more stuff and like researching this,
and somehow it would have be till twenty eighteen. Then I started like
narrating stories and then from there it kind of just evolved into me kind of
doing my own show what I do now. And then um, I realized
at a certain point once I had some like income coming in from and I'm
like, you know, I need help. I can't because I was spending
like all day like researching some of the stuff, and I'm like, I
need I need people to I need to kind of I need to expand it
a team here, and so I was fortunate to get a few good people
who can like now do a lot of this research for me and then of
course, now I have access to to like really good people. So uh,
for example, like if anybody out there knows about Mysterious Universe, they're
a great resource, great website. Josh Cutchin, he doesn't write for them,
but he's a really good author. I have him on my team.
Brett Swansor, who I'm like working on and off with. He actually writes
from Mysterious Universe. Really educated guy, great dude, really smart, just
knows a lot of stuff. He's like one of their main writers. He
also does some stuff for me now. And so really I feel like the
amount of things I can cover and what I can talk about greatly help because
I have people who are very intelligent, very their feet are very wet in
this field, so they know a lot of things, and so then kind
of already helped use their knowledge to kind of help mold and shape like what
we can talk about versus just me how to do every little bit of thing,
because you know, a lot of times I'll do stuff and people like,
oh, you know you missed this, this and this and this I
did. What do you? I can't cover a thing up through, Yeah,
so just take it for what it is. Come on, I think
the answers your question right, Yes, I want to make sure answer yeah,
yes, I still try and like research and like we'll at this stuff
even all my off time. EF I'm just like looking around. It's like
an episode because for my episodes, I'd love to be able to tell a
story, but then also integrate that account or story of like someone's past experience
along with like information, so like things that had gone on, like say
like it's like the wind to go or I don't say the Batman, but
like the bat squash or something right, So that way they have not just
an encounter, but they also have information that goes along with it. So
I feel like that's huge and so yeah, you do, you do kind
of gotta to do some digging. And unfortunately, I said, in our
field, there's not like books, Well there's books on the step, but
there's not like an encyclopedia of cryptozoology where you can look back and see every
little thing and threw as somebody should please let me know about it. Yeah,
tell you got it, tell you a lot found you. That's how
I've found you. I had to do my own wife. Yeah, are
you talking to your book about sea monsters? For real. I've I've heard
of lackness monster and shamp from like Champlain, but what other ones are there?
Oh? Sema, oh this is This is probably one of my favorite
topics, not because Billy I want it because the topic of things loving in
the ocean are just downright terrifying. So this is a really not to be
punny, but this is a really big Lisa wise because God, Mike,
we can be we can talk about this for a while. I'm just trying
to think where to start. So obviously, like we had to Leviathan,
right, and it's talked about in the Bible. We don't know what that
is, that that's its own thing, that's supposedly that this huge see entity
that lives. But I'm not going to go into the biblical part of it
is because that could again, that could be its own thing. But people
do do you talk about sea serpents and we're talking about things that aren't just
like wharfish. We're talking about legitimate like serpents, snakes, um. In
fact, I just did a video recently carrying the captain's name, but it
was back from the late eighteen hundreds early nineteen hundreds, and he was out
off the coast of Brazil. I want to say it was and a huge
core reef see us. So there's a lot of food. And he witnessed
two of these things, probably about you know, one hundred feet in length,
probably about eight and eight feet in diameter, I believe I have that
right, maybe eight inches, probably closer to maybe three four feet, I
don't know. Anyway, he sought wrapped coiled around a sperm whale taking it
down. So it's like you just you have things like that. You know,
there's other things like the murf folk. I wouldn't say mermaids because that
pain say Disney picture in your head, but humanoids. There's a lot of
tribes to talk about it, a lot of stories not just from like American
but tribes around the world. There's a few stories from Greece where people have
seen these things. In fact, i'm actually editing a video today that I
shot the other day. There's actually a couple of USSR divers who were in
the Black Sea, in the Arabian Sea. They've seen some weird stuff.
And actually I'll say this because it's fresh in my head, because I just
did it. Because back in the nineteen eighties there is a group of five
I want to see either Ukrainian or USSR divers, and they were in the
Black Sea and they noticed this strange like Hube like structure on the floor,
and so they go down to like investigate it, and they hear the strange
voice reverberating all throughout the water says, don't do that, don't do that,
and they're like, what the heck? And I can't remember if this
is because there's several of these stories and I can't he if this is the
one where they go to touch it and all of a sudden, things around
them turn to like an ancient Greek like structure, like like ruins, and
they see these tall humanoids prob about three meters in length, wearing these silver
tight body suits. There's another account of them almost doing something similar where they
see these humanoids swimming in the water. They go to chase after them,
and they claim they are approximately one hundred and sixty four feet down. They
go to try and capture them. These humanoid beings retaliate and then they use
some sort of like forced mechanisms, some sort of weapon that actually pushes them
so far so fast upward. They actually three of them died from decompression sickness.
Oh wow, you're being forcefully pushed up. I mean, gosh,
there's so many. There's another dude. He was in Finland. He trying
where this was. It was at bay. He found this like strange cucumber
like object. He went to go retrieve it. He couldn't get it open.
He couldn't pull up with his car like with eleven, so he used
a pneumatic drill. It cracked open. There's a bubble with the strange like
white thing in it. He didn't know what it was, but it actually
lashed at him, clad him. He faints, He gets a blob.
Yeah, there's so many like these, like little stories here and there,
and it's just like there's one of an of an East Indian man who was
working on an oil rig. This is I want to stay back on the
early two thousands. This one, there's not a whole lot of information on.
But he was probably two hundred feet down and he saw this really large
block. He descried his black shark come near him to kind of check him
out, and it was it was curious, but he said it was the
largest shark he's ever seen. He has admitted it to be and where probably
between fifty to sixty feet It was jet black. He said he was terrified,
and the only lights down there are two hundred feet were from like the
glow of his work lights. So I mean, like the area is like
loosely illuminated, but it's not like it's brimming bright daylight, you know.
I believe it was in the evening time, so it was dark, so
it's not like there's a lot of light. But he could see this thing.
He just checking them out and then eventually lost interest. But there's stuff
in the ocean that we just don't know all that. I'm trying to give
you guys the digest version. But there's just people report all sorts of things.
I mean, just from like the mermaid murfolk thing to I don't say
the let Viathan, but to like large serpentine like creatures, the ones I've
actually not heard of. I don't think I've heard of any stories of,
like people saying a messosaur. And for those of you that don't know,
messosaurs are like the aquatic crocodile, crocodilian looking things, right, everyone everyone
knows the plus asaur, you know, like the Loch nest, but yeah,
and you don't really see the mostosaur one. There was a story I
want to say, from the thirties or forties had to do with a battleship
shooting another ship, I want to say, and then in the explosion of
the enemy ship they see this giant like fifty foot long, like amphibian,
reptilian, crocodilian, whatever was flyf into the air and then land back down
the water. The entire crew saw it. What do you make of it?
Nobody knows. I don't have any stories of like, you know,
the crack and taking down a submary, nothing like that. Just just stay
like, there's things in the water we don't you know, we don't understand,
and then oh, go ahead, go ahead. The ocean is so
vast and so massive that who's to say that these prehistoric dinosaurs didn't survive some
of them anyway, and are living at the bottom of the ocean in caverns
and come up every so often. I mean, I can see that being
a possibility. I mean, even still today you hear about people discovering different
creatures that we've never known before in jungles that have never been visited beyond recent
You know what, I mean time. Well to piggyback off that I people
might think I'm crazy, but I kind of really bind the idea that megalodon
could still exist. And the reason why is because if you go down to
South after they found some strange stuff. So for example, they've found carcasses
of whales washed up on short, humongous bites taken out of them. Nobody
knows what that's about. And people will say, well, that's just a
woff incident. Well here's the gig. You gotta follow the food chain.
What do sharks like to eat? Seals? And guess we're a lot of
seals gathered or time of year South Africa. I want to say, I
remember someone who's very educated on this would know exactly what I'm talking about,
But I can't remember. If there's an island or if there's a peace land.
There's there's something in South Africa where some time a year, like a
lot of seals gather and it's the food. You're right, you migrate.
So megalodons assumingly exist. They they migrate, they follow where the food is.
For anyone who says it's impossible they can exist, I think that's nonsense.
There's so much room for them to hide and some much room for them
to stay low. I mean, look, we didn't even rediscover the call.
I believe colon can't, right, goal it can't. It's like that
this supposed prehistoric fish and like what the last ten etine years, Well they
were at state welcome. They weren' found until recently. So it's like exactly,
yeah, yeah. What I was gonna say is that people say,
well there's not enough food, Like there's whales, you know, and when
you're seeing whales wash up on short massive chunks taken out of them, you
know you wonder. I just can't bind to the idea that the largest shark
there is that we found it is a great white shark. I mean you
think, what when the last seven like, well when did we when we
when did we really start like diving in the ocean and like looking like really
taking marine biology seriously in terms of like exploring and like noting species. What
maybe the last one hundred years where we could actually dive into the water interrect
really see, we don't know nothing. So I feel like people who claim
that Meigleton can't exist doesn't exist, I think that's extremely foolish. I think
it's extremely naive. We don't know. I can't claim it does because I
don't know, but I'm just assuming that if it would, it would definitely
migrate to where the food is. And sure enough, that's what I'm saying.
You're seeing the whale carcasses wash up in that area where where the seals
are, where there's plenty of food, and I think there's another time of
year whether they go somewhere elseide and exactly know the migratory patterns. But sharks,
we already know. Sharks are migratory anyway. They're very intelligent. They
follower that food is. They don't just stay in one area and hang out.
And so if you're if you really are talking about a fifty to sixty
foot if not bigger predator, it's not going to be up at the surface.
Plus I've also heard many stories from military personnel of them seeing large fins
breaking the water. Black fins, mind you, black because that kind of
goes along with what the account I was telling you about. That's far larger
than any great white, which is strange. And so that's kind of what
happens in this field, right. You kind of like get so many anecdotal
stories and things here and historical things there. Hey, you start to notice
these similar things going on, so you start like kind of drawing strings all
over the places. You're like, oh, well that matches this description here,
and this here and here and this and then this kind did this here,
and you're like, oh my gosh, there's there's like this like web
right where everything's kind of interconnected somehow, and it kind of just helps up
bring authenticity to I guess what you're looking at, what you're discovering. Discover
me Maybe that's not the right word, but you know, investigating I should
say. I don't want to say it proves anything, but you're like,
well, that's definitely weird. If like, you know, six different people
under this like one hundred and fifty year time span reports things to something similar
in the same area, you know, it's like and none of them know
what it is. None of them claimed to know what it is. Think,
yeah, it's there's just weird stuff, you know. I know that
they were a military personnel. It was like off the coast of Australia who
reported seeing these massive, massive man of war like things. But that's that's
all they are, you know, unfortunate. There's no pictures, they're just
anecdotal stories. So it's like, right, my thing is always tell everybody
listen, I just present information, you know, right through what you will,
because like we don't know how much is fabricated, how much is exaggerated.
And I know one big thing that people come at with is like,
well, how do you very you know, like, how can you verify?
You can't verify, that's right, arify any of this stuff. So
really it's just take it as is. And I know people get really offended
at the whole what will take people's things with a grain of salt, But
you know, you kind of have to because if you have saying then then
then you're gullible naive. But if you if you if you choose to shut
out everything, I feel like that's just as bad. So it's like you've
got to be open minded, but gotta he just got you know, take
things with the grain of salt, like, Okay, well you know that
that's very interesting. It true, it could mean this, but you know
it's also could also be false. I think that's what what makes our field
the whole supernatural paranormal forty in cryptosology, So interesting. On another note,
I'm a I'm a paranormal investigator, and so when people will ask me,
well, you know, what's your proof, like you can leave me or
not. I know what I've experienced and I'm sharing it with you. Take
it for what it's worth. I'm not trying to convince anybody. That's how
I kind of leave it. Yeah, It's it's like NDEs, right,
A lot of people like they don't exist while human thousands of people who have
an end, who have had an NDE, they can't describe, like what
you're doing, they can't describe. They go like, listen, like I've
had this experience. I don't have any proof. I don't need proof like
I believe. Yeah, you know, And that's hard, you know,
because you're dealing in a realm where it's like science can't tread because there's not
enough date. You have no way to measure the data, you have no
way to capture the data. So how do you? But I also feel
like solely relying on science it is wrong too, because not everything is quantifiable,
not everything is capturable or recordable. Exactly. Saying that would be putting
life in a box to where everything can be captured. It really can't.
There's a lot of things we don't understand. There's a lot of anomalies we
can't understand. And I know mankind and our arrogance tries to think that we
know everything and tries to box everything. Well, that can't be lord for
a driculous and then they'd come to find out, oh, yeah, we
were wrong. You know. It's just so like going back to the paranormal
thing. Yeah, people are like, well you viewed the voice. I'm
like, well, just that there is different electro backnanticism, that's not the
right word, and an electromagnetic waves and stuff. When you have when I
say entity sums that there is changes in the room, like you can feel
that, Like how do you how do you? How would you document that?
Like where's the scien that you don't know? But if you go to
a room where there's something that you can feel it, you know there's something
in there. There's a presence that there's a shift in temperature. There's also
if you look a lot of different thing going on, it's not just one
thing, it's a whole bunch of different things. If there are a lot
of people that are sensitive to spirit one's experiencing this and that the other.
There's got to be something going on. And then when you start catching data
and footage in one way of shape or another, it's kind of undeniable that
something has transpired. That's why they're animalists, because it's like, we don't
have we don't have the devices to capture this yet. One thing I think
about with what they call spirits or whatever you want to call it, it's
energy, it's frequency, it's it's something because like even the evs, I
don't know exactly how they work what they do. They pick up on the
frequency like a change your free and educate me here on it. But I
know that's the gist, right, They pick up on some sort of electrical
wave that there is a ship, there's something different, there's something. Are
you talking about the K two's or where we have recordings on audio recorders?
Do you talking like the EVPs? Is that what you're talking about? Is
there are a bunch of different ways you can catch I know, I apologized,
everybody sound really ignorant with hey, but um, I guess there's multiple
right you have you have the is it called like a ghost box? I
know you have those there are multiple devices that are out there that people use.
We like to use the traditional methods of interconnection with them. On my
particular team, we do use audio records because we want to try and catch
voices. Yes, we do use cameras to take pictures, of course,
but as far as communication is, a lot of them use their own sensitivity
and I'm not nearly as gifted as some of the people on my team,
so I'll use like dowsing rods and appendant to try and get responses in yes
or no. But it's kind of like everybody together. They're utilizing what they
have, whatever gifts they have to get some sort of fluttered. So we
do get photographs. Who do get audio audio is I think great, because
especially if you're a bunch of women in a room and you get a male
voice, then it's kind of like where the heck did that come from?
And some of them are just clear audible, it's like, oh my god,
and they responded to a question that we proposed, So that makes it
even more exciting when something happens. And if this is all pseudoscience and it
doesn't exist, then like people like uting yourselves and of course many people who
do you know EVP sessions. And I don't want to use the word ghost
hunting because that makes it sound silly. But people who actually thoroughly explore these
cases in these locations, they all have the same like you're saying, babies,
dallsing rods, these all these things that can actually like, hey,
like we're there is a there's something going on in this area, this room
that's building, whatever is that that is abnormal to what the signals that we're
getting somewhere else? How do you explain that? Right? And there's now
something going on? Now, what if I have actually a little story that
I think you might be interested in? So my dad, I'm not going
to go there because the whole story is very long, but I'll give you
the part of it. Back in the seventies, he was living in Colorado
with his girlfriend and he saw in this late night show that he was talking
to one of the guys was talking about you could actually communicate with spirits using
a taper quarter This was back in the seventies, so you couldn't the tape
recorders you had then you had to actually plug it an external microphone. He
probably what I'm talking about in in case we will doubt it's one of the
alas. I don't know why exactly what it is, but stayed to buy.
You like the tape, you put it in and if you just hit
record, nothing will happen because there's no input. Well, the guy in
the show was saying that if you go to a graveyard hit record, it'll
pick up high in frequencies, and then I was like, oh, that's
cool, we should go do that. But he didn't go to a graveyard.
He did it in his own house where he'd already had some root stuff
going on. So long story short, him his friends go over that they
he pulls out a new, brand new TDK tape cassette still in the thing,
unpacks in front of everyone to show that it is a brand new tape.
There's something on it, sticks it in boom hits record, there's no
microphone. They're sitting around for about ten twelve fifteen minutes joking around or if
there's any spirits ooh, thinking the whole things just ridiculous. They go to
play it back and what my dad describes was at Jimmy Hendricks Real played in
reverse along with all sorts of like crazy screaming to my noises, and he
said him and his four or five friends, grown men, were you know,
pardon my French, but scared shitless. They're huddling, they're shaking because
right, what the hell is on the tape? Yeah, like like right,
oh no, you know. So it's like, you know, and
so even he goes around to his work at the time and he showed everybody
this tape. He's like, what's what is this? Nobody can figure it
out. M yeah, we didn't mess with it. He didn't anything.
You could just press record, you know what. We don't even look for
answers. He don't. He really doesn't have answers to that, that that's
beyond And it's a shame that the majority of people would laugh that off.
That they're like, oh well they can't. Probably, it's just like it's
our brains can't comprehend something, so our first instinct is to deny its existence.
It's very angry, strange, even like he thinking about humans or that
way, even about death. We all know death is coming at some point
or another, but you don't. It's almost like you deny that that it
happens, right, you don't think about it. You're like, I don't
I don't want to. I don't want to go there. Right, it's
almost like am it's a defense mechanism of the brain, almost where it's like
you can't you can't even fathom such an ideas and it scares you. I
think I think that idea of frightens the most, not just death, but
all things that are going on. It frightens people so much. It's just
easier to deny it it exists. You're like, God, that's just nonsense.
I'm not We're going to entertain it's nonsense. Yeah, because it scares
you. If you knew it was real, you'd have to accept it.
I think that's where a lot of people in the paranormal cryptos zo a logical
field are. We're like, listen, there's stuff happening. We can't explain
it, but it's yeah, it's incredibly frightening. But here we are.
Well, you wrote volume one. Does that mean there's going to be a
volume two at some point? Yeah. I talked to my publisher and we
were planning initially on May as in like May, a month or two ago.
But uh, I don't just want to fill a book full of stories
to throw it out there. I want to make sure that it's good,
and I want to make sure that you know it's I'm trying to the right
word here. I don't want to say entertainment's on the right word, but
I want to make sure that the stories are definitely to get it right.
Yeah, I really want to go through a hand because, I mean the
first one I kind of had to go back through and pick, you know,
a handpick through a lot of different things, and it's kind of an
amalgamation of a lot of different stories, and I would, well, I
would kind of like to repeat that going into volume two. Be I've definitely
like like to be have a little more like nuance with each story. Pick
accounts that stand out a more. In the first one, there's definitely accounts
that are similar, and I had such a huge library to choose from.
I know, people say, why do you just do that again? I
mean I could. It's just a really amount of time. Time is really
difficult, especially when you have a podcast or YouTube channel. I mean,
it's rough to try and keep up with it and normal every day life.
But if you do get around to volume two, let me know, want
to have you back on the show. I'll hope you promote that tell the
listen this way they can find you and your books and anything about you.
Yeah. So you can find my book anywhere on Amazon. I don't know
if it's on any other publishing plot I'm sure it is, but yeah,
check it on Amazon. It's called The Big Book of Monsters by Josh Ninocchio,
Volume one. And if you want to find my contact, just go
on YouTube and look for what lurks Beneath? What lurks beneath, it'll be
my little face or with the little red or it's red colored whatever you'll find
it. Then I cover everything from strange, mysterious, dark and weird and
storytelling format. So I love that title. Love that title. Well,
thank you so much for joining me. This is a great conversation. I
really enjoyed it. Yes, it's a pleasure. And listeners. If you
like listening to this week's episode and you're into all things paranormal, check out
my other show, Eleanor Wagner's creep In It Real podcast out of the Coast
to Coast Entertainment Network, which is available wherever you get your podcasts. And
if any of you are interested in reading any of my books, you can
find the links to them on my website, author Eleanor Wacker dot com.
I write about the history of the town and location, add the paranormal story
to the mix, and finish it all off with photos and evidence. Everybody
loves it. Good ghost story, but there's nothing better than h rue ghost
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tap into your own gifts. Everyone has them, and in the meantime,
make sure you're creeping it real, opening down our past dams. Doesn't doubt
that always lined out to see he doesn't die. The best, don't doubt,
but the stuffin't stop stop st