WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.360 --> 00:00:06.160 I was in France to pronounce it like that. France, ask not what 2 00:00:06.360 --> 00:00:11.839 your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. 3 00:00:11.919 --> 00:00:23.120 Mister Gerbatcheff, tear down this wall, read my lips. It's the 4 00:00:23.199 --> 00:00:27.120 Ricochet Podcast with Rob Long. He's back and Peter Robinson, Lame James Lilacs. 5 00:00:27.120 --> 00:00:30.239 And given the whole Scotus bonanza we've had this week, there's only one 6 00:00:30.280 --> 00:00:33.920 possible guest we need, and that is John Hugh. So let's sabrasels a 7 00:00:33.920 --> 00:00:36.920 podcast. Well, it's a very sad day. In the majority of opinion, 8 00:00:36.960 --> 00:00:42.679 they basically whitewash, whitewash the Constitution in a way that basically says that 9 00:00:43.039 --> 00:00:47.039 we were right all alone. America's a nation that can be defined in a 10 00:00:47.200 --> 00:00:54.880 single word. I excu welcome everybody. It's the Ricochet Podcast, number six 11 00:00:55.119 --> 00:00:59.520 hundred and forty eight, two more to six fifty, which is probably a 12 00:00:59.600 --> 00:01:02.719 meaningless number of six forty eight. But here we are. I'm James Llax, 13 00:01:02.840 --> 00:01:06.519 and here is Minneapolis. Rob Long's back in New York and he's been 14 00:01:07.159 --> 00:01:11.480 in falls. Peter Robinson will be trembling along in just a minute here. 15 00:01:11.519 --> 00:01:14.079 But while we're waiting for Peter and waiting for our guests John you who will 16 00:01:14.120 --> 00:01:17.680 tell us everything we need to know about Scotus World. Welcome back, nob 17 00:01:17.879 --> 00:01:21.359 and how was thank you? The last we say we see we see it's 18 00:01:21.359 --> 00:01:23.879 in flames. You know, it's just entirely inflamed. So you got singed 19 00:01:23.920 --> 00:01:27.599 on the way out. There's Peter gol Ah. You know, it's funny 20 00:01:27.599 --> 00:01:32.079 when that stuff like that happens in a foreign cut. Often when things happen 21 00:01:32.120 --> 00:01:34.040 at farign country, especially France, which is sort of bewildering in a little 22 00:01:34.079 --> 00:01:37.959 bit different and kind of has their own weird thing going on. If you're 23 00:01:37.959 --> 00:01:40.599 in the United States, you think, what does it even mean? Like, 24 00:01:40.640 --> 00:01:42.840 what does it even mean that these guys are marching around in yellow vests 25 00:01:42.840 --> 00:01:47.959 and talking about a you know, twenty three hour work week. But we 26 00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:51.680 know what this means. This is just a this police stop that went wrong 27 00:01:51.760 --> 00:01:56.280 and they light they shot a kid and they and they light about it. 28 00:01:56.319 --> 00:02:00.680 And so but the the demographics are different, are they not than the than 29 00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:04.239 the yellow bests? Yeah? Oh yeah, obviously yes. But what I 30 00:02:04.239 --> 00:02:07.640 guess what I should mean is if this just feels like okay, there that 31 00:02:07.799 --> 00:02:10.280 we've had this and What I think is interesting about it is that we we 32 00:02:10.479 --> 00:02:13.879 I mean, I hate when people do that, so I then here I 33 00:02:13.879 --> 00:02:19.000 am doing it. But when I think about the sort of the George Floyd 34 00:02:20.719 --> 00:02:23.360 that the umbrella term, I'm using George Floyd's umbrella term for all that stuff. 35 00:02:23.800 --> 00:02:28.759 Um, I think of it is like quick, essentially typically uniquely American, 36 00:02:28.879 --> 00:02:30.680 that this is something that happens in the melting pot of the nation with 37 00:02:30.759 --> 00:02:37.800 a history that we have, and um turns out it's not. So that's 38 00:02:37.840 --> 00:02:43.039 my only takeaway from from the Paris riots. I mean, what I was 39 00:02:43.080 --> 00:02:45.080 there, I got a lot of questions, and I think I did an 40 00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:49.439 interview or two with some journalists because they were obsessed with the writer's strike, 41 00:02:50.919 --> 00:02:54.800 because it seemed to them that Americans have innovated a new thing to strike about 42 00:02:54.840 --> 00:02:58.199 and a new group to go on strike. And I think the French had 43 00:02:58.240 --> 00:03:04.840 a hard time accepting that the Americans have invented and discovered a new thing that 44 00:03:04.960 --> 00:03:07.520 they haven't. So there's a lot of curiosity about how what does that mean 45 00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:08.639 to go on strike? What do you do? Like they were like they 46 00:03:08.639 --> 00:03:12.680 really want to know the details of the writers strike. So I spec here 47 00:03:12.680 --> 00:03:15.639 it'll be like, you mean that are moments when writers do work well, 48 00:03:15.639 --> 00:03:20.039 No, I think they're familiar with that. How can you tell they're striking? 49 00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:22.479 The job of a writer is to sit around and not write and look 50 00:03:22.479 --> 00:03:27.000 constipated. Exactly right. Interesting, Peter, Welcome and you are in California. 51 00:03:27.039 --> 00:03:30.639 You are in California. You have not been a hit by the haze 52 00:03:30.639 --> 00:03:34.919 and the smoke that is covering the country here for once, for once, 53 00:03:35.000 --> 00:03:38.719 we are so used to having the wildfire, haze and smoke in the middle 54 00:03:38.719 --> 00:03:45.159 of the summer that I have to say the principal reaction of US forty million 55 00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:49.000 Californians is to look at the rest of the country and chortle a little bit. 56 00:03:49.159 --> 00:03:53.199 Thank you for chartling yeah week, because we always point to you and 57 00:03:53.199 --> 00:03:57.919 say hat which we don't know where we we we s good Christian people in 58 00:03:57.919 --> 00:04:00.479 the middle of the country. There science, but our weather. In the 59 00:04:00.520 --> 00:04:02.759 paper said of the fire, of the smoke and the rest of it, 60 00:04:03.680 --> 00:04:10.120 this is what climate change looks like and smells like climate change. That's why 61 00:04:10.199 --> 00:04:15.000 not poor strange management of their forests and Canada their tendency to just let things 62 00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:16.959 burn, not the fact that they've had Arson, and no, it's it's 63 00:04:17.000 --> 00:04:24.759 climate change, because what isn't But no, you've got to so what is 64 00:04:25.160 --> 00:04:29.560 the news in California. We're just talking about Rob in France, where I 65 00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:36.000 assume he had delightful gustatory experiences because why also pretty much the news in California. 66 00:04:36.079 --> 00:04:40.560 Actually the news in California. My I have a friend who's a member 67 00:04:40.639 --> 00:04:45.199 of the Director's Guild, and he explains the strikes to me as followers. 68 00:04:45.240 --> 00:04:48.519 The Director's Guild are the grown ups. He's a member of the negotiating team 69 00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:53.240 actually, and they go in and they sit down with the studios and they 70 00:04:53.279 --> 00:04:56.600 come up with a plan, and they don't yeah, they just get it 71 00:04:56.600 --> 00:04:59.480 done. And indeed they signed their deal I think it was the middle of 72 00:04:59.519 --> 00:05:02.759 last week or so, and then SAG the Screen Actors Guild and above all 73 00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:06.319 the Writers Guild, wine and more open stage protests and get a lot of 74 00:05:06.319 --> 00:05:11.000 publicity, and then they finally come in some weeks later and sign a deal 75 00:05:11.079 --> 00:05:14.519 based on the deal that the Director's Guild signed. And this has happened over 76 00:05:14.560 --> 00:05:19.319 and over again. I'm told this year is different, and this year is 77 00:05:19.319 --> 00:05:23.879 different, at least in part because this is all the form of a question 78 00:05:23.920 --> 00:05:30.279 to you, Rob, because of artificial intelligence AI, and the studios have 79 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:34.800 decided that AI is already useful. They will still need writers, but they 80 00:05:34.879 --> 00:05:41.360 might not need such big writers rooms. They might not need junior writers. 81 00:05:42.519 --> 00:05:45.720 And here's why. So my friend gave me an example. He's one of 82 00:05:45.720 --> 00:05:47.480 the things you might assigned to junior writers. You've got a premise for a 83 00:05:47.560 --> 00:05:51.560 sitcom, and then you signed the kids in the room to come up with 84 00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:57.120 three or four different endings. Just see how might the plot go? How 85 00:05:57.199 --> 00:06:02.759 might you end it? And AI and do that already. I mentioned this 86 00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:10.120 to Sun number two and he called up chat GBT and assigned it to write 87 00:06:10.160 --> 00:06:15.720 a scene in which Donald Trump and Joe Biden play Ping pong, And forty 88 00:06:15.759 --> 00:06:23.480 seconds later there was five hundred words on his screen which I have now seen. 89 00:06:24.079 --> 00:06:28.319 It was not ready for SNL. Lauren Michaels would have would not have 90 00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:31.360 bought it, but you know what, it had a sense of pacing, 91 00:06:31.399 --> 00:06:38.560 It tried some humor and you could just sort of see the way this could 92 00:06:38.600 --> 00:06:44.800 go, and it really could be bad for junior writers. Question Mark, 93 00:06:45.279 --> 00:06:53.600 Rob, Well, I'm I have a theory that if you're a writer and 94 00:06:53.759 --> 00:07:00.720 you are worried about AI. Just how bad are you? Like that scenario 95 00:07:00.839 --> 00:07:02.720 I guess could work. It's just never going to be as good as a 96 00:07:02.720 --> 00:07:05.519 bunch of funny writers in a room coming up with stuff. The AI I 97 00:07:05.600 --> 00:07:10.879 just don't don't like jokes and so so far. Um and the idea of 98 00:07:10.920 --> 00:07:14.279 like separating it all into scenarios and you ask chet GPT to come on, 99 00:07:14.319 --> 00:07:15.920 maybe it would work. I don't know that that just seems like actually more 100 00:07:15.959 --> 00:07:19.079 work than sitting in a room with your team and the fun of it and 101 00:07:19.160 --> 00:07:21.800 coming up with stories. And you know, you can write half a story 102 00:07:23.079 --> 00:07:25.920 in the in the room if you're if you're good, right, and so 103 00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:27.720 part of the problem is that's what I mean, is like if you're not 104 00:07:27.800 --> 00:07:31.639 good, I think I think AI means as you do this, if you 105 00:07:31.720 --> 00:07:35.120 if you're, if you're, if you're a good writer, it's going to 106 00:07:35.160 --> 00:07:39.759 make you slightly better because you're going to use it and the studios aren't going 107 00:07:39.759 --> 00:07:41.639 to use it for you. You're going to use it. The studios don't 108 00:07:41.680 --> 00:07:43.000 want to develop, they don't want to do any of it, so I 109 00:07:43.040 --> 00:07:46.240 think they're out of that business. Um, if you're a great writer, 110 00:07:46.279 --> 00:07:49.839 it's going to give you superpowers, because you're really going to be able to 111 00:07:49.879 --> 00:07:53.319 run a bunch of different versions at once and see how they all play out, 112 00:07:53.319 --> 00:07:56.839 and it'll be an interesting writing prompt. But I even I use now 113 00:07:57.839 --> 00:08:01.199 if, um, how how do you use? Give us a couple of 114 00:08:01.199 --> 00:08:05.000 examples of how you use I haven't used it in dialogue, but I've used 115 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:09.639 it in pros when I don't want to do any research and I don't really 116 00:08:09.680 --> 00:08:11.240 want to know any of the information. I just want to kind of get 117 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:15.040 what happened, and I'll just write the first three sentences and to say, 118 00:08:15.079 --> 00:08:16.800 finish it for me, and it'll finish it for you. I've never used 119 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:20.399 that. I don't really use the sentences of the language, but I definitely 120 00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:24.439 use the way it lays out events and sequences in a way that's very, 121 00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:26.839 very logical and easy to understand, and so it kind of gets out of 122 00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:30.240 you, so it gets out of your own worn So we're already in the 123 00:08:30.279 --> 00:08:33.759 third We're already in the third verse of in the year twenty five twenty five 124 00:08:33.799 --> 00:08:35.799 by Zager and Evans or a rob Long is just in a chair hooked up 125 00:08:35.799 --> 00:08:39.840 to a bunch of tubes, dictating some ideas to machines which write it off 126 00:08:39.840 --> 00:08:41.240 for you. Well maybe I just I just think that when you when you 127 00:08:41.240 --> 00:08:45.919 reduce all that stuff to just the output, you know you're what you're going 128 00:08:45.960 --> 00:08:48.360 to get is something boring. And when people don't do this thing at the 129 00:08:48.399 --> 00:08:50.559 point, I mean, there's only one rule of show business, right, 130 00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:54.879 don't be boring. And I've never seen anything the AI has done has been 131 00:08:54.879 --> 00:08:56.120 morning And maybe they'll come up with one. I don't know, but I 132 00:08:56.320 --> 00:08:58.720 have to I am in the director's skill as well, so I would I 133 00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:05.600 differ with your director friend this way. The directors have are traditionally the grown 134 00:09:05.679 --> 00:09:07.000 ups in the room. They are traditionally the ones to do the research. 135 00:09:07.799 --> 00:09:13.559 There's been a traditionally a huge overlap between the director's interest and the writer's interests. 136 00:09:13.000 --> 00:09:16.960 It's not quite the same thing now, especially as especially in terms of 137 00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:20.399 working conditions. This is very boring to people who are not in shows. 138 00:09:20.480 --> 00:09:24.799 But I'll do it anyway. The director the Director's Guild categories of employment are 139 00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:28.519 really really strict and well defined. The first ad first sistant director on any 140 00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:31.679 set movie or TV does the thing. The second assistant director on any movie 141 00:09:31.799 --> 00:09:35.480 or TV set does another thing. The director does a thing. People the 142 00:09:35.559 --> 00:09:39.600 upm who's also in the director's guild does a thing. These are really specific 143 00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:43.799 categories. Writers are like, well are you. They have different names that 144 00:09:43.840 --> 00:09:48.000 are traditional names, like story editor and co producer and supervising producer. But 145 00:09:48.039 --> 00:09:52.159 the story editor doesn't edit any stories, and the supervising producer doesn't produce any 146 00:09:52.279 --> 00:09:58.039 doesn't supervise any production. There's just titles for levels of writer. The problem 147 00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:01.200 is that that what you need to know now you want to be a useful 148 00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:03.840 member of the Writer's Guild, or or you want to be successful umbers the 149 00:10:03.879 --> 00:10:07.240 Writer's Guild, or you want to understand what's going on, is you need 150 00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:11.720 to know math. And writers just don't know maths. And so there's a 151 00:10:11.840 --> 00:10:15.799 huge amount of stuff I read down from the Writers Guild that I'm just baffled 152 00:10:15.840 --> 00:10:18.679 as to how they got to two plus two equals, you know, f 153 00:10:20.559 --> 00:10:26.240 like the completely wrong categories that they're blending. The word residualism doesn't mean residual 154 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:33.399 anymore, all that stuff. So they are they are intractable and and way 155 00:10:33.480 --> 00:10:35.799 way behind on understanding how the business is going to change. And I think 156 00:10:37.039 --> 00:10:39.360 the actor screen actors guid will probably make a deal, probably a week, 157 00:10:41.399 --> 00:10:48.639 because traditionally actors do what the directors told them to do. John Pothoortz gives 158 00:10:48.639 --> 00:10:50.799 you a call and says, Rob, Rob, Rob, you promised me 159 00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:56.919 your copy for the next issue five days ago, and say oh, oh 160 00:10:56.440 --> 00:10:58.519 right, yes, yes, of course, of course you hang up. 161 00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:05.159 You'd write three sentences and then say chat, GPT finish my commentary column. 162 00:11:05.399 --> 00:11:11.000 Really is that sort of the way it works, and then you go out. 163 00:11:11.919 --> 00:11:15.200 It's it's usually if I have a paragraph for two and you're writing pros, 164 00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:20.879 I write idiosyncratic essays that have very little to do with truth or reality 165 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:24.240 or journalism. I am not a journalist. I am not interested in facts. 166 00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:26.799 I don't like I think facts to boring. I like what I think 167 00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:31.799 about facts. So I want to help you with that stuff. It doesn't 168 00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:33.399 every now and then you have a paragraph where you have to lay out what 169 00:11:33.559 --> 00:11:37.960 happened and when oh I see and you trying to like and like and you 170 00:11:39.080 --> 00:11:41.200 and you can start it and it will sort of finish it in all sort 171 00:11:41.240 --> 00:11:43.360 of And I always do it on a separate you know, you do it 172 00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:46.759 on a separate document, and then you can kind of see, oh, 173 00:11:46.759 --> 00:11:50.960 this is the way, this is how a computer brain logically laid out a 174 00:11:52.039 --> 00:11:56.320 sequence of historical or you know, financial events. And then that's a good 175 00:11:56.320 --> 00:12:00.480 way to do it, because I understand it's really for clarity more than anything 176 00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:03.840 else for me. Because I write, my senses are two paragraphs long. 177 00:12:03.320 --> 00:12:09.080 I use semicolons and dashes constantly. I'm incredibly, incredibly bad in that, 178 00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:13.480 and it's something's hard for people to understand because you're taking dictation from your head. 179 00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:18.080 And I get that, and that's how I write too. But the 180 00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:20.639 thing that I'm loath to do is to do that thing that you just described, 181 00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:24.000 because I find that going in and taking a look and finding my own 182 00:12:24.039 --> 00:12:28.600 way to say something that I may not understand it seems a little boring, 183 00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:33.440 makes me a better writer. It makes me work as opposed to just falling 184 00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:37.159 back on my ticks and ingredient skills. Well, you see, you like 185 00:12:37.360 --> 00:12:43.840 work, and Rob has a different approach work. He says, I've known 186 00:12:43.879 --> 00:12:46.600 you both for a long time now, and I see where we disagree here 187 00:12:46.600 --> 00:12:50.840 at the two of you. I'm out. Yeah. When it comes to 188 00:12:50.879 --> 00:12:54.080 work, the Nations leftist commentators are working overtime over the last couple of days, 189 00:12:54.080 --> 00:12:56.919 because there have been three decisions that have just rocked them all back on 190 00:12:56.960 --> 00:13:01.200 their heels, and we need to pack the court. It's a rowe court, 191 00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:05.320 it's illegitimate, it's been taking money from special interests, all these things. 192 00:13:05.320 --> 00:13:09.480 Biden should absolutely ignore everything that they're doing. The States should ignore, 193 00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:13.120 the Court should be canceled all of that stuff, et cetera. If only 194 00:13:13.240 --> 00:13:18.200 Ruth Bader Ginsberg had In other words, we got some good news from the 195 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:20.759 Supreme Court this way, and you know, we could talk about it here, 196 00:13:20.799 --> 00:13:24.840 we could plug it into our own little chat GPT things. But why 197 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:31.679 when we have a walking, talking embodiment of an intelligence the likes of which 198 00:13:31.919 --> 00:13:39.159 machinery could never hope to emulate, and that would be John. You it 199 00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:43.679 does pain me to say that this time we actually need John. Do you 200 00:13:43.759 --> 00:13:46.159 know how painful it's spin. I've been listening to you guys, and I 201 00:13:46.159 --> 00:13:50.000 couldn't say anything because you muted me. Yeah, how did you get how 202 00:13:50.039 --> 00:13:54.960 did you get chat GPT to mute me automatically? Because it's it's it's sentient 203 00:13:56.120 --> 00:13:58.559 now and is making wise decisions for the rest of humanity. You know those 204 00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:01.799 computers that Kirk always argues with until they smoke and then they shut down. 205 00:14:01.879 --> 00:14:05.799 Well, this is like that, except we're going to let you roll because 206 00:14:05.840 --> 00:14:09.279 you are, you know, the Berkeley Guy American Enterprise Institute. You know, 207 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:13.639 you've got your credentials up the yazoo, as they might say in some 208 00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:18.080 other places. You know, he's on power Line, he's got that other 209 00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:22.759 law talk podcast. What really matters though, when he comes here and talks 210 00:14:22.759 --> 00:14:24.840 to us, because he loves us more than anybody else. All right, 211 00:14:24.879 --> 00:14:28.600 what do we got Let's start with Should we start with the freshest one, 212 00:14:28.639 --> 00:14:31.720 the last one out the door, the last grenade they kind of rolled before 213 00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:35.840 they headed out for the summer, or which one do you want to address? 214 00:14:35.919 --> 00:14:39.799 Is the most consequential Scotus decision of our times? Well, the most 215 00:14:39.799 --> 00:14:45.399 consequential one of this year was yesterday with the affirmative action case. Right, 216 00:14:46.360 --> 00:14:50.679 I think for the Roberts Court this is the second most important opinion other than 217 00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:56.480 the Dob's case from last year. If you think about what conservative lawyers and 218 00:14:56.600 --> 00:15:01.279 judges have wanted for the last fifty years, it was to overrule Row versus 219 00:15:01.279 --> 00:15:05.600 Wade, and it was to end affirmative action it's almost as if the conservative 220 00:15:05.679 --> 00:15:11.919 legal movement has finally achieved most of its agenda. It only took a half 221 00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:15.639 century. But John, does that mean you're more or less done now? 222 00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:24.360 Well, there's always new things to talk to Richard Epstein about. So seriously, 223 00:15:24.360 --> 00:15:28.879 you can see today, actually you saw the other cases where the Conservative 224 00:15:30.279 --> 00:15:35.200 Court is still pushing forward. One is religious rights, and that's the very 225 00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:39.399 controversial Conservatives actually are very divided about how much to protect religious rights. But 226 00:15:39.559 --> 00:15:46.480 today the court said that a religious internet wedding planner did not have to do 227 00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:52.159 same sex weddings if out of her legitimate and good faith religious belief. And 228 00:15:52.200 --> 00:15:58.639 then the other case today was the cutting back stopping actually not cutting back completely 229 00:15:58.639 --> 00:16:06.840 blocking the four hundred billion dollars Biden student loan cancelation. And that's the other 230 00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:08.240 area where this Court's going to still keep going, which is trying to figure 231 00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:15.919 out a way to rein in the bureaucracy. Ap characterized the website designer decision 232 00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:18.799 as another blow for gay rights, which I think is an interesting way of 233 00:16:18.840 --> 00:16:25.440 framing the issue as opposed to I mean, if somebody had declined to make 234 00:16:25.480 --> 00:16:29.360 a website for Nazis, I don't think that the ape would be saying in 235 00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:33.600 a blow to racist rights, Wow, they would be hailing it as something 236 00:16:33.639 --> 00:16:37.600 else. This is a matter of compelled speech, right. This is a 237 00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:44.519 matter of the state's view on things being mandatory in freedom of expression. So 238 00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:48.799 the phrasing on this is always going to be suspect and perhaps not surprising. 239 00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:52.440 And guess what, I have no question there, so I'll shut up and 240 00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:55.320 Peter, you can go on and ask a good question. James actually made 241 00:16:55.320 --> 00:17:00.200 an excellent point there, which is one thing that the religious groups successfully did, 242 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:02.960 and they started doing this about twenty thirty years ago, but you're really 243 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:06.400 seeing the culmination in the last five years. You say, kind and I'm 244 00:17:06.400 --> 00:17:10.880 not sure very religious people would agree with this. They kind of converted themselves 245 00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:15.240 from a religious group to a free speech group. So now instead of saying 246 00:17:15.720 --> 00:17:21.359 they still say, you're restricting our right to have freedom of religion under the 247 00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:23.359 First Amendment, but then they also say, and we have a point of 248 00:17:23.440 --> 00:17:30.240 view as like a free speech rights. That's different, and they've been winning 249 00:17:30.279 --> 00:17:34.440 a lot more lately because they're able to say we also are just saying what 250 00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:38.680 we believe. As if you know, any group in society has a right 251 00:17:38.680 --> 00:17:41.119 to say what they belief, regardless of whether it's religious or not. And 252 00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:45.599 they've been getting I think they begin more sympathy from people and from judges because 253 00:17:45.640 --> 00:17:48.440 they've made that sweat. I know we're talking about we're talking about the website 254 00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:51.920 case, but I also want to go back to the coffrimitive action. But 255 00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:53.680 the website case for it's just just clarifying. I always get this wrong. 256 00:17:55.759 --> 00:18:02.000 If I run a liquor store and I say I don't sell to gay people, 257 00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:07.640 that's a violation of something, right? Is that that you can't do 258 00:18:07.720 --> 00:18:14.440 that? I bake cakes or decorate cakes, or make websites or do a 259 00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:18.400 kind of a service and say, listen, I don't, I don't. 260 00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:25.079 I mean the people doing that aren't saying they don't sell or serve those people. 261 00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:30.079 They're saying they will not create a public product for those people, right, 262 00:18:30.119 --> 00:18:33.119 they will not be their ghostwriter in a sense, either on the web 263 00:18:33.240 --> 00:18:37.200 or on the top of a cake. Is that that fair? Yeah? 264 00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:42.359 And that's where a lot of people are all right conflicted because you could say, 265 00:18:44.200 --> 00:18:47.559 if you're a store and you open yourself up to the public or your 266 00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:51.160 hotel, you open yourself up to the public. Then the law says you 267 00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:55.519 have to basically not discriminate against anybody who comes in. So you can't say, 268 00:18:56.839 --> 00:19:07.200 I run the rob long Democrats only love motel. Although that sounds be 269 00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:11.039 a great business right, you got to let in Republicans and Democrats. You 270 00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:15.759 have an obligation when you open a business to open up to everybody. Now 271 00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:18.839 that distinction the court made, and you may not be persuaded by this. 272 00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:22.680 There's you know, there's a lot of people dissent from this on the court 273 00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:26.440 and then scholarship, but they would say. The court then says, okay, 274 00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:29.799 so if you go into the baker's place and you buy the kick, 275 00:19:29.880 --> 00:19:33.240 he has to sell you the cake. You can't force him, though, 276 00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:37.480 to write what you want on the cake. He said, that's my artistic 277 00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:42.200 right. And the court kind of draws the line around there between your right 278 00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:47.279 to open access, but then the right of the business owner not to right 279 00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:48.839 not to have to say what he doesn't want to say, not to be 280 00:19:48.839 --> 00:19:52.839 your ghostwriter, which I I kind of agree, I don't quite understand. 281 00:19:53.960 --> 00:20:00.079 I don't guess I don't understand the argument against it because because it hurts the 282 00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:03.039 wrong group of people. The same people who are saying that the baker should 283 00:20:03.039 --> 00:20:07.559 be forced to write something on the cake that is contrary to their own personal 284 00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:11.000 beliefs are the same people who will try to get you drummed out of your 285 00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:14.000 job or academia if you miss gender or use the wrong pronouns, or you 286 00:20:14.079 --> 00:20:17.839 have a hateful idea which is descent. I mean, this is the disconnect 287 00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:19.440 that I don't get is, on one hand, they want the state to 288 00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:23.200 compel people to say certain kinds of speeching on the other hand, they are 289 00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:30.079 absolutely incensive. They're incensed if people say something that they find upbraids their own 290 00:20:30.119 --> 00:20:36.279 delicate sensibilities. And here's an interesting thing that both James and robs our questions 291 00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:40.279 race is after this case. Before this case, I would not have thought 292 00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:44.000 this was a serious claim. But now I could see someone saying, well, 293 00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:47.880 in the workplace, you can't make me use your preferred pronouns anymore because 294 00:20:47.920 --> 00:20:52.359 I don't believe in three, four or five different genders, right, So 295 00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:56.880 I, for religious, good faith, religious reasons, I refuse to use 296 00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:00.480 the vocabulary that my employers trying to impose on me. That might be the 297 00:21:00.519 --> 00:21:06.400 next set of cass or it should be because I'm saying artistic somehow gives a 298 00:21:06.440 --> 00:21:07.839 carve out that I don't think should be. There doesn't matter. I mean 299 00:21:08.079 --> 00:21:12.920 if the artistry or whether or not it's aesthetic is irrelevant. What matters is 300 00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:17.839 compelled to speech. And that's what the Left has been trying to do for 301 00:21:17.880 --> 00:21:22.039 a long time. It is to frame and just and contort the words so 302 00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:26.319 that if you do not utter these proper phonemes, that you are guilty of 303 00:21:26.359 --> 00:21:33.160 a whole wrath of harmful violence, et cetera. Thingshobe Um, all right, 304 00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:37.240 so I guess, I guess I understand it is. But that feels 305 00:21:37.240 --> 00:21:42.400 to me as the way it has been limbed by James lilacs Um to use 306 00:21:42.440 --> 00:21:45.960 the you know, legal term. But I know you, like John you 307 00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:51.880 um, that seems to me as you describe never believable red meat an almost 308 00:21:51.880 --> 00:21:59.440 a hometown buffet times twenty a banquet of mc ribbs for future. Now you're 309 00:21:59.480 --> 00:22:03.319 making me graces. Yeah, this feels to me like that this area is 310 00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:07.920 gonna be. This is like, this is the overture to the world's longest 311 00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:14.839 concerto for courts in twenty years, thirty years in the future, trying to 312 00:22:14.839 --> 00:22:19.480 figure this part out right. Yes, and this is to extend the method. 313 00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:25.480 This is the overture before the opera starts, because there's so many But 314 00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:29.440 part of it's because of what you guys are talking about. If the other 315 00:22:29.480 --> 00:22:33.200 side let people alone, right, they didn't try to say the reason this 316 00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:41.720 happened was because Colorado passed a law trying to force Baker's wedding planners to accept 317 00:22:41.319 --> 00:22:47.039 everyone who comes in and to have to do these websites or put on the 318 00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:51.920 frosting on the cake with the messages for people they disagreed with and for causes 319 00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:56.640 they disagreed with. So I think if the other side would step back a 320 00:22:56.680 --> 00:23:00.559 little bit, they won't start generating all these permanent Supreme Court precedents which they're 321 00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:03.599 going to be very upset with. And the chances that the other side will 322 00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:11.319 step back a little bit are counselor may we go to affirmative action? Yes? 323 00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:14.920 Please, I'll just I'm just going to give you a stack of questions 324 00:23:14.920 --> 00:23:18.440 and let you deal with them as you may so rather than kind of let 325 00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:21.799 you talk and then come in with it. All right, But can we 326 00:23:21.799 --> 00:23:23.759 do them one at a time? Because I can barely remember what Peter said. 327 00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:27.039 You must says you might, thank you very much, you might. 328 00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:32.279 You can take Yeah, I was clicking around last night and you were. 329 00:23:32.359 --> 00:23:36.400 You appeared on every single outlet that I clicked on. John, you must 330 00:23:36.440 --> 00:23:38.920 not have slept last night. You were on cable television so much. Okay, 331 00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:42.000 it was I was calling. I was telling my friends. I hate 332 00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:45.880 to say this, but I was getting critiqued by some friends, so I 333 00:23:45.880 --> 00:23:48.519 said, that's just what you for the first time in history. That's what 334 00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:59.160 you call the Asian victory. Lap Okay, I'm trouble for that. Three 335 00:23:59.720 --> 00:24:03.079 questions. Question number one, Can we agree that this was the Chief Justice 336 00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:08.920 at his best, no attempt to play politics, Beautifully written, passionate, 337 00:24:10.279 --> 00:24:15.160 forceful, logically unanswerable as best I can tell too. I'm going to give 338 00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:18.680 them all to you, John right now. There does did it leave too 339 00:24:18.759 --> 00:24:25.440 much of a loophole? Of course, colleges and universities may continue to consider 340 00:24:25.839 --> 00:24:32.720 essays and personal experiences and your alma mater. Harvard instantly released a press release 341 00:24:33.400 --> 00:24:37.000 saying that if students, if applicants discuss the effects on their lives of race, 342 00:24:37.079 --> 00:24:41.680 we will of course take that into account. That's a loophole. I 343 00:24:41.720 --> 00:24:47.400 think maybe not, while you'll tell me three the military was specifically excluded. 344 00:24:47.480 --> 00:24:51.240 Now, I can't quite figure out the grounds for saying that this is unconstant, 345 00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:56.400 that taking race into account in hiring or application admission decisions is unconstitutional, 346 00:24:56.400 --> 00:25:00.039 but the military gets to do it. John, So first, I think 347 00:25:00.119 --> 00:25:04.960 this is Roberts's greatest opinion. It was, as you said, it was 348 00:25:06.079 --> 00:25:10.720 very forceful and strong. He's almost if you read the descent, the tone 349 00:25:10.759 --> 00:25:15.759 of it is he's exasperated. One theme that runs through is not just that 350 00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:22.079 the government should never use race ever for anything again, because it was such 351 00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:29.160 a mistake, but he has overwhelming disdain for university professors like me, the 352 00:25:29.279 --> 00:25:33.599 university administrators, deans, particularly college a ministry. He almost calls them all 353 00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:38.599 liars. He says, basically, you told us this stuff almost over twenty 354 00:25:38.680 --> 00:25:45.200 years ago, that you needed diversity to have better teaching, research and so 355 00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:48.240 on. And he says there has been in the last two decades absolutely no 356 00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:52.440 proof that that is true. And this is almost the exact words. He 357 00:25:52.440 --> 00:25:56.319 says, we're no longer going to take your word for it, as you 358 00:25:56.400 --> 00:26:00.799 know that's not legal. Ease that's pissed off, right, So that's one 359 00:26:00.839 --> 00:26:04.200 day. Is just how forceful. He was almost angry that he felt the 360 00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:11.720 Court has been manipulated by university universities. So I thought it was It was 361 00:26:11.720 --> 00:26:15.400 a great and also he's very direct and responsive to the descent. He could 362 00:26:15.400 --> 00:26:22.359 have ignored Justice Jackson and her sixteen nineteen Project Descent. I recommend you read 363 00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:26.799 it because now we have a critical race theorist on the Supreme Court. Justice 364 00:26:26.960 --> 00:26:33.079 Oh oh. It's in fact that she basically prompts Justice Thomas into saying that 365 00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:38.079 she herself holds racist beliefs. It is really an extraordinary exchange, Unlike I 366 00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:41.880 think I haven't seen anything like it in you know, fifty years of Supreme 367 00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:47.960 Court opinions. But what Roberts's main achievement is to say, let me show 368 00:26:47.960 --> 00:26:51.799 you how the Constitution is color blind. Let me show you every time the 369 00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:56.319 Supreme Court has thought it was doing good by deviating from that, like dred 370 00:26:56.400 --> 00:27:03.359 Scott, which appeld Slay, like Plusy versus Ferguson, which upheld segregation. 371 00:27:03.799 --> 00:27:07.160 Every time we did it, it was a disaster for the country. And 372 00:27:07.240 --> 00:27:11.680 so we've done it a third time for emissions and we're gonna stop. We're 373 00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:15.079 gonna close that loophole off. And now we're just returning to a single, 374 00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:18.680 easy to understand principle. We have a color blind constitution. So I thought 375 00:27:18.680 --> 00:27:21.759 it was I thought it was. I don't think Roberts is ever going to 376 00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:25.240 do better than this. It's all downhill for him now or you John, 377 00:27:25.279 --> 00:27:26.839 the two of you need to hang up. But we'll come to that in 378 00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:30.279 a moment. We'll come to that. I'm still young enough to get on 379 00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:33.160 the court. See, this is what we gotta You're gonna really scare the 380 00:27:33.319 --> 00:27:34.920 left. Just say, look, you can still put John you on the 381 00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:38.960 court. This is not over. Um. The second the loophole, Yeah, 382 00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:42.039 that's not going to really think. Why do you think you wrote that 383 00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:48.839 book about Donald Trump called Defender of the Constitution? Yeah, three January sixth 384 00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:55.839 Um, anyway, the loop on the loopholepole question, Yes, the loophole. 385 00:27:55.839 --> 00:27:59.000 Actually, Um, this is again something he did because of the descent. 386 00:27:59.480 --> 00:28:03.319 So that sent the actually tried to say, okay, here the ten 387 00:28:03.440 --> 00:28:07.319 ways college emissions officers can still cheat. They're really remarkable. They were exploited. 388 00:28:07.359 --> 00:28:11.559 They tried to find loopholes in the decision that's what the end did, 389 00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:15.359 right, and tell the end one of them and lay them out for college 390 00:28:15.400 --> 00:28:18.680 emissions officers. Right. So this really ticked Roberts off. So he basically 391 00:28:18.759 --> 00:28:25.359 said, actually says the last place you should look for legal counsel is the 392 00:28:25.519 --> 00:28:30.319 losing descent and a Supreme Court opinion. It's really harsh. I thought it 393 00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:33.000 was a great line. But then that's why this provoked what people are calling 394 00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:37.240 the loophole, which is not which is where he says, Look, obviously, 395 00:28:37.759 --> 00:28:41.359 college students are going to put in their essays. Oh, I overcame 396 00:28:41.559 --> 00:28:48.319 some barrier because of my race, or my race inspired me to write about 397 00:28:48.359 --> 00:28:52.359 the works of Martin Luther King. It's not possible for the court to police 398 00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:56.079 any of that. But what the court instead said is, but if you 399 00:28:56.440 --> 00:29:00.400 use that race as a proxy for he's automatically in or she's automatically and that's 400 00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:03.480 unconstitutional. If you look at their race just like you might look at their 401 00:29:03.880 --> 00:29:08.680 income or their lack of education opportunities, that's different. Then you're still treating 402 00:29:08.720 --> 00:29:12.240 them as an individual, not a member of a group. That might still 403 00:29:12.279 --> 00:29:15.599 be okay, But then they say, but we're going to be vigilant we're 404 00:29:15.640 --> 00:29:18.079 gonna be watching you to make sure you're not cheating. Okay. On the 405 00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:22.640 third one about the military, this has been totally i think exaggerated by the 406 00:29:22.759 --> 00:29:27.680 left because they can't find anything in this opinion, you know, for anything 407 00:29:27.759 --> 00:29:32.160 that looks like sunlight. So there's a footnote in the beginning of the opinion 408 00:29:32.240 --> 00:29:36.799 that says, this opinion doesn't address military academies because no one sued them, 409 00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:41.880 so we're reserving that for tomorrow. So I already had a friend of mine 410 00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:45.720 in the conservative legal movement who said, oh, we're going to sue the 411 00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:49.319 military academies next year now, so I think this exception is not going to 412 00:29:49.480 --> 00:29:52.880 last very long. And if you were the dean, you know, West 413 00:29:52.960 --> 00:29:57.160 Point or Annapolis, you should change your missions. Gets sued to the Supreme 414 00:29:57.200 --> 00:30:00.759 Court, right, And I said, look, this is why the court 415 00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:03.640 would do this, because can you imagine the Supreme Court saying, oh, 416 00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:08.400 it would be okay to have racial quotas for promotions in the military to major 417 00:30:08.519 --> 00:30:11.720 or colonel. Court would strike that down right away. So why do you 418 00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:15.960 think they would allow those a military can of say we're going to have quotas 419 00:30:17.079 --> 00:30:19.960 for black and Hispanic officers. And lower ones for Asian and white officers. 420 00:30:21.079 --> 00:30:25.279 So I can't think this court would would agree with that. Okay, so 421 00:30:25.559 --> 00:30:27.839 um, I am jet lagged. So I got up early today and I 422 00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:37.759 read the newspaper and I read the decisions in the affirmative action case and they 423 00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:40.920 are like really good, They're like riveting. That's like a lot of drama 424 00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:44.039 in there. But the one thing I was struck, and I just this 425 00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:45.440 is now cultural, not legal, So I'm asked to ask you a larger 426 00:30:45.519 --> 00:30:52.119 question. I was struck by the difference of opinion between Katangi Brown Jackson and 427 00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:56.200 Clarence Thomas, that the two black members of the court have a very different 428 00:30:56.279 --> 00:31:02.119 view. And so I did a little Wikipedia and I and I mean no 429 00:31:02.359 --> 00:31:06.279 disrespect to Katangie Brown Jackson. I'm what I'm about to say I could be 430 00:31:06.319 --> 00:31:11.279 said about me in spades, but she in the word they kept using in 431 00:31:11.400 --> 00:31:15.519 the in the decisions, adversity that adversity can count. Adversity is something that 432 00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:22.519 all colleges can look at. Two parent family. Katangie Brown Jackson raised in 433 00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:27.960 Florida, born in DC. Father was a prominent lawyer was then in the 434 00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:33.519 Chief Council for the Miami Dade school board. Mother was a school principal, 435 00:31:33.359 --> 00:31:40.599 she went to Harvard. Well, I'm sure, I'm sure she had adversity 436 00:31:41.240 --> 00:31:44.920 in her life. We all do. But when you can compare that to 437 00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:48.279 say that Clarence Thomas story, single parent family, raised by a grandparent in 438 00:31:48.680 --> 00:31:55.680 poor, rural Georgia, a lot of adversity there. If you are the 439 00:31:55.799 --> 00:32:01.519 admissions officer for a Harvard law school, Yale law school, one of those 440 00:32:01.599 --> 00:32:07.640 candidates applicants has adversity in you know, truckloads, and the other doesn't. 441 00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:15.039 Why should both of them get preferential treatment over you know, goody two shoes 442 00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:21.319 a student, John you, because that's really what is at a heart right 443 00:32:21.440 --> 00:32:25.920 of this case. I don't understand why my shoes are goody two, but 444 00:32:28.279 --> 00:32:30.960 I don't even know what that means. So, you know, Rob, 445 00:32:31.039 --> 00:32:36.119 actually it's your student, you know you were, Yeah, what do you 446 00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:44.599 get other than as a their grades below A that's another mom a Asian victory 447 00:32:44.680 --> 00:32:49.960 lap, but you went to Actually, Asian victory lap is kind of funny 448 00:32:49.960 --> 00:32:52.240 because we're supposed to be humble, So an Asian victory lap is just I 449 00:32:52.279 --> 00:32:54.920 don't know what an Asian victory lap would be just book. I'll tell you 450 00:32:55.039 --> 00:32:59.519 this much, whatever the victory lap is, it doesn't clock in at much 451 00:32:59.519 --> 00:33:05.359 of a speed. So this is this point that rob is making is actually 452 00:33:05.480 --> 00:33:07.839 not just cultural, it's legal, and it's actually infused. In the opinion, 453 00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:14.440 the Chief Justice Roberts says, the evidence shows that the primary beneficiaries of 454 00:33:14.559 --> 00:33:21.519 racial preferences are middle and upper middle class minority families. And he says, 455 00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:27.240 why should write an upper middle class kid and a black kid in the suburbs 456 00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:30.960 get a benefit of racial preference over a poor white kid in inner city or 457 00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:37.200 a recent immigruct from Asia. I think that's unanswerable. And so I think 458 00:33:37.240 --> 00:33:43.960 there's, as you see, this cleavage or fight between people who think race 459 00:33:44.079 --> 00:33:47.839 explains everything, which I think is That's why I'm quite seriously I say Justice 460 00:33:47.880 --> 00:33:53.160 Jackson's descent is a sixteen nineteen project descent. She says this is justified because 461 00:33:53.240 --> 00:34:00.480 all of American society is fundamentally racist and produces these long term, permanent he 462 00:34:00.599 --> 00:34:06.480 says, permanent oppression of blacks, and Justice Thomas or I think the six 463 00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:12.039 other Justices and the majority who say there's nothing wrong with having preferences based on 464 00:34:12.199 --> 00:34:15.480 socioeconomic class. That's the other thing. People don't realize. This opinion only 465 00:34:15.519 --> 00:34:19.719 says you can't use race. If you still wanted to have a better society 466 00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:24.039 and do social engineering, you can do it based on geography or poverty, 467 00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:28.880 right, whether your kids went you know, where your parents went to college, 468 00:34:29.039 --> 00:34:30.440 that's all still allowed. In fact, I think this court would uphold 469 00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:35.199 those in a second. So you really so, Rob swyn Is. It 470 00:34:35.320 --> 00:34:39.639 shows that there's this difference between people who believe that government can do things based 471 00:34:39.719 --> 00:34:44.159 on class, but people in the dissent, And I think a lot of 472 00:34:44.199 --> 00:34:47.000 my colleagues and a lot of university professors and teachers in K through twelve who 473 00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:51.840 think race explains everything. Right, But if you were, I mean, 474 00:34:52.639 --> 00:34:54.239 I'm going back to those two people and I'll shut up because it seems to 475 00:34:54.280 --> 00:34:59.440 be That's the crux of the argument is that Clarence Thomas was born in nineteen 476 00:34:59.519 --> 00:35:04.920 forty eight and Catangie Brown Jackson was born in nineteen seventy and when Clarence Thomas 477 00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:07.039 was born, he didn't have indoor plumbing and didn't have a father. He 478 00:35:07.079 --> 00:35:09.920 had a father, father left early. He didn't have any of the things 479 00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:15.239 that you need to get to Yale, except probably a grandmother who's on him 480 00:35:15.280 --> 00:35:22.039 all the time and his own native brilliance. KTAGI Brown Jackson is a little 481 00:35:22.039 --> 00:35:23.719 bit more like you know, Frankly the Rob long story, like she kind 482 00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:28.480 of like you know, she born Okay, she did Okay. She's a 483 00:35:28.679 --> 00:35:34.400 child of the post civil rights era by any definition. So it seems like 484 00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:38.840 one side is clinging to the privilege and the other side is saying no, 485 00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:45.480 no, done over. And I don't see where this ends. I don't 486 00:35:45.519 --> 00:35:50.000 see where if you have the oldest guy saying you don't need these set asides, 487 00:35:50.039 --> 00:35:52.400 the one guy who Rob really could have used them, frankly, and 488 00:35:52.599 --> 00:35:55.440 then the other person who didn't really need them claiming them. I mean, 489 00:35:55.519 --> 00:36:00.400 how can most Americans, certainly most Asian Americans look at this and think that 490 00:36:00.679 --> 00:36:05.760 the system is rigged against them? Yeah? I agree. In fact, 491 00:36:05.880 --> 00:36:10.960 Thomas says it's worse than that. Even he says that having this view that 492 00:36:12.119 --> 00:36:16.079 the younger minorities have. Look, there are plenty of Asians who support racial 493 00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:22.440 preferences, which I find mind blowing. But Justice Thomas says, it's not 494 00:36:22.639 --> 00:36:28.679 just that you're trying to get benefits for yourself. You are adopting an ideology 495 00:36:29.480 --> 00:36:34.159 that is destructive to young people, he says, because he says this in 496 00:36:34.199 --> 00:36:37.079 his opinion in response to Justice Jackson, you are trying, you are trying 497 00:36:37.159 --> 00:36:43.400 to convince all young black children that you are permanent victims, and that nothing 498 00:36:43.480 --> 00:36:47.119 you do is a result of your hard work and as you said, Rob 499 00:36:47.199 --> 00:36:52.719 your natural talents, that everything you suffers because of racism, and therefore everything 500 00:36:52.840 --> 00:36:57.679 any benefits you get is because of race. He says that, as though 501 00:36:57.760 --> 00:37:02.360 that's supposed to stings, as though he's unmasked at their argument. That's exactly 502 00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:07.719 what they specifically explicitly say, that you are in this position simply because of 503 00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:13.239 you. I mean, I mean intersectionality and identity politics requires the reduction of 504 00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:15.199 everybody down to this. They'll admit it first. So, I mean, 505 00:37:15.239 --> 00:37:17.800 you're right, and he's right, but it's you know, I don't think 506 00:37:17.800 --> 00:37:21.199 there's a mortal blow to their self image. It's like, yeah, of 507 00:37:21.280 --> 00:37:24.360 course, that's exactly what we believe, and it's baked into the bones of 508 00:37:24.400 --> 00:37:29.280 the American system. Now. The one thing I think is different between say, 509 00:37:29.559 --> 00:37:34.840 last year and Dobbs and this year is that in this case, but 510 00:37:34.960 --> 00:37:37.159 I think for these reasons. I think the great majority of American people agree 511 00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:40.840 with Justice Thomas. I think the polls show something around two thirds of the 512 00:37:40.840 --> 00:37:47.599 American people, including a majority of the minority groups, think that the government 513 00:37:47.639 --> 00:37:52.280 shouldn't use racial preferences. So I think Katanji Brown, Jackson's descent, and 514 00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:57.880 this whole sixteen nineteen project, maybe this is the turning point. I hope, 515 00:37:58.280 --> 00:38:01.360 you know, maybe this is you know, this crazy ideology invented at 516 00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:06.360 the universities has been let loose on society, and maybe this court is now 517 00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:12.159 not ending it, but it's the beginning of the end. So John, 518 00:38:12.320 --> 00:38:17.559 did you did you find it striking at all that on all three of these 519 00:38:17.599 --> 00:38:21.840 big decisions that have come down in the last couple of days, Affirmative action, 520 00:38:22.840 --> 00:38:29.199 the student loan forgiveness case, and then the cake case, the wedding 521 00:38:29.400 --> 00:38:35.559 cake case, wed wedding planner case, thank you, the three liberals all 522 00:38:35.719 --> 00:38:43.840 voted in the minority, meaning I guess, well, no, I'm putting 523 00:38:43.880 --> 00:38:46.599 this as a question my own thing. Just you know more about this than 524 00:38:46.679 --> 00:38:54.159 I do. But it struck me that they're becoming that was almost transparently political. 525 00:38:55.199 --> 00:39:00.400 We just can't permit that we just can't do this. The arguments are 526 00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:07.760 very weak kotential. Jackson Brown is arguing politics from the New York Times, 527 00:39:07.599 --> 00:39:15.119 and I guess I was surprised and disappointed that now a correct, straightforward understanding 528 00:39:15.159 --> 00:39:17.719 of the Constitution. And as far as I can tell, on the student 529 00:39:17.840 --> 00:39:22.519 loan matter, nobody including Joe Biden, actually thought what he was doing there 530 00:39:22.639 --> 00:39:27.239 was legal. And yet you still have three justices of the Supreme Court saying 531 00:39:27.480 --> 00:39:30.000 no, no, no, no. If the president does it, we're 532 00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:32.079 not quite sure how that's legal. But somehow or other, there's a deli 533 00:39:32.239 --> 00:39:39.599 man, somehow it's legal and just straightforward constitutional interpretation is not politicized. The 534 00:39:39.760 --> 00:39:49.760 left has somehow or other pledged itself to sheer power identity politics in a way 535 00:39:49.800 --> 00:39:52.559 that it had not before. Am I wrong? Which I may very well 536 00:39:52.599 --> 00:40:00.280 be? Well, I'm not sure you're wrong. When it comes to these 537 00:40:00.360 --> 00:40:05.320 sort of core issues like abortion affirmative action. I think their views on this 538 00:40:05.480 --> 00:40:08.039 are really hardwired into liberalism. I mean, what are you wanna call it? 539 00:40:08.079 --> 00:40:13.480 Progressive is not liberalism, small elm. But I think progressive just can't 540 00:40:13.760 --> 00:40:20.559 because they have whole structures of thought and policy built around abortion, built around 541 00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:25.639 right, affirmative action, social engineering based on race. So I actually this 542 00:40:25.719 --> 00:40:29.920 is my hope. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm too optimistic, but my 543 00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:34.039 hope is once the court gets over these central fights that have been going on 544 00:40:34.199 --> 00:40:38.000 for fifty years. Right back, which created racial preferences is from the seventies. 545 00:40:38.400 --> 00:40:42.519 Ro versus Wade is from the seventies. Right, These are fights that 546 00:40:42.599 --> 00:40:45.920 have been going on for fifty years. Now, maybe if they're settled, 547 00:40:46.559 --> 00:40:50.280 you know, the cork can get down to regular business. So I'll, 548 00:40:50.480 --> 00:40:53.559 you know, while everyone's talking about as they should, affirmative action, talking 549 00:40:53.599 --> 00:40:58.719 about the student loan program. The Court's been unanimous on things that I think 550 00:40:58.800 --> 00:41:04.320 have a lot of common sense. They decided a case yesterday about the religious 551 00:41:04.360 --> 00:41:07.320 postal worker. You know, um, what's his name from Cheers, not 552 00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:12.480 Norm, the other guy Cliff. It's like it's a Cliff were a religious 553 00:41:12.559 --> 00:41:15.679 Catholic, right, So Cliff didn't want to deliver mail on Sundays, and 554 00:41:15.880 --> 00:41:21.679 so the post office started basically punished him, and the court unanimously said the 555 00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:23.719 post office should just give him some other kind of work at the post office 556 00:41:23.800 --> 00:41:28.599 on the other days to make up for not working on suns The other case, 557 00:41:28.679 --> 00:41:31.480 I point out to get who delivers mail on who gets mail on Sundays? 558 00:41:31.760 --> 00:41:37.000 What nineteen twenty seven where you got too you know you got it twice 559 00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:39.159 a day and then once on Sundays. I have there's never never known Sunday 560 00:41:39.199 --> 00:41:44.000 to live. Could be we just we just don't include Minneapolis. Oh that 561 00:41:44.119 --> 00:41:45.960 explains it? Could it possibly be? Actually no, actually no, it's 562 00:41:45.960 --> 00:41:50.960 actually Amazon. That's the post Office. That's what I was going to say. 563 00:41:50.960 --> 00:41:53.199 It's one of those things that they're doing their subcontracting for Amazon. And 564 00:41:53.320 --> 00:41:57.519 so that dad's another little eye opener. Did these things anyway? Do go 565 00:41:57.519 --> 00:42:00.440 ahead? And then here's actually the other one is a Minnesota case self throw 566 00:42:00.440 --> 00:42:02.960 it out there too, where they were unanimous, everyone agreed them common sense 567 00:42:04.039 --> 00:42:08.960 where Minneapolis took the condo of a ninety two year old grandma because she had 568 00:42:09.280 --> 00:42:13.960 had paid her taxes, sold it, kept the tax money, but then 569 00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:16.159 took kept the rest of the money too. Again nine zero. That's a 570 00:42:16.239 --> 00:42:22.239 taking of property. So my hope is right you three Trump justices added to 571 00:42:22.960 --> 00:42:29.559 Mary Roberts, Thomas and Alito has produced now the supermajority that can finally resolve 572 00:42:29.639 --> 00:42:35.639 these cases that really have bedeviled our system for fifty years. Now we can 573 00:42:35.719 --> 00:42:42.159 get onto new business and maybe you'll see right the tensions received rather than get 574 00:42:42.239 --> 00:42:45.920 worse. That's my guy. Let me ask you about the student loan thing. 575 00:42:46.079 --> 00:42:50.000 We all know that we had an amnesty when it came to immigration. 576 00:42:50.119 --> 00:42:52.960 That it didn't settle the issue forever. It just meant that people said, 577 00:42:52.239 --> 00:42:54.320 whatever, can have one of those, I'd like to get into the next 578 00:42:54.360 --> 00:42:57.800 one, and so they'd come here and stick around and hope for a law. 579 00:42:58.400 --> 00:43:01.760 If they had passed the they've said that the Biden loan forgiveness was Okay, 580 00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:05.519 that's great, that's a good idea. We're going to say it's constitutional 581 00:43:05.599 --> 00:43:08.760 because it's a good idea and people like it, and ergo, it's constitutional. 582 00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:13.480 If they had done that, there would have been absolutely no effect whatsoever 583 00:43:13.559 --> 00:43:17.119 on people taking ridiculous amounts of money to get ridiculous degrees because they figured another 584 00:43:17.159 --> 00:43:21.079 one was down the road. So now that they have, now that there's 585 00:43:21.159 --> 00:43:25.119 no forgiveness, could this possibly be the beginning of the pointless, expensive, 586 00:43:27.039 --> 00:43:32.519 miserable cultural addiction this country has to believing that a college degree is a somehow 587 00:43:32.559 --> 00:43:36.599 certification of one's ability to do anything in the world, and it's the basic, 588 00:43:37.480 --> 00:43:42.199 most minimal thing that you have to do to participate. Is this the 589 00:43:42.280 --> 00:43:45.519 beginning of the end of the whole college mystique and the return to something perhaps 590 00:43:45.599 --> 00:43:50.480 that's more useful and grounded. In other words, I mean, you can 591 00:43:50.519 --> 00:43:52.400 wrap up everything we're talking about and saying that, actually, if you want 592 00:43:52.440 --> 00:43:57.679 to help these poor kids who grew up in adverse circumstances and have lived experiences 593 00:43:57.719 --> 00:44:00.880 to tell about it, don't send them to Harvard. Then to electrician school 594 00:44:00.920 --> 00:44:04.880 or the plumbing school where they can actually make a difference and make some money. 595 00:44:05.840 --> 00:44:08.199 Anyway, just the end of college as we know it, Well, 596 00:44:08.239 --> 00:44:13.880 you're seeing the changes already and what people are majoring in. So I think 597 00:44:13.960 --> 00:44:16.920 you're seeing now the lowest number of majors and the humanities, you know, 598 00:44:17.039 --> 00:44:21.960 like English professors are wondering why no one's showing up in their classes. I'll 599 00:44:21.960 --> 00:44:25.320 tell you. Here at Berkeley, we just created the first new college in 600 00:44:25.400 --> 00:44:30.880 fifty years, and it basically is data science, and I think it already 601 00:44:30.960 --> 00:44:36.320 has the most majors in the whole in the whole university, and people are 602 00:44:36.360 --> 00:44:40.760 not majoring in history English. Maybe this is good for humanity. I don't 603 00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:45.079 know, but you know, yeah, yeah, it doesn't sound bad. 604 00:44:45.719 --> 00:44:49.239 I wouldn't mind. People a fewer people are majoring in English in history if 605 00:44:50.079 --> 00:44:53.639 history and English were part of the basics, we're getting a college degree. 606 00:44:53.639 --> 00:44:57.360 In other words, in order to get that degree, even if it's in 607 00:44:57.480 --> 00:45:00.440 STEM, we've got to see that you've sat in the class and and gotten 608 00:45:00.440 --> 00:45:02.519 a basic rutiment specific education and history in English and the rest of it. 609 00:45:02.599 --> 00:45:05.679 So he's come out of you're a well rounded individual. But no, it 610 00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:08.800 doesn't you know. Yeah, my points just like the marketers are spawning, 611 00:45:08.840 --> 00:45:14.320 and students themselves are choosing to go for more practical subjects. Now, even 612 00:45:14.360 --> 00:45:15.719 when they go to college, they're you know, they're going for things like 613 00:45:15.880 --> 00:45:21.000 data science for STEM fields, not for the liberal arts, which I'm sure 614 00:45:21.039 --> 00:45:24.239 the four of us all majored in. Can I just change the subject for 615 00:45:24.360 --> 00:45:30.000 one thing? Yeah, I hear that, sorry, which we haven't talked 616 00:45:30.039 --> 00:45:37.480 about, which the Jerrymanderine case was from two weeks ago, Alan versus Milligan. 617 00:45:38.800 --> 00:45:44.239 Is that again, yeah, um, the one from Alabama. One 618 00:45:44.280 --> 00:45:50.280 from Alabama. So the court again, the conservatives on the board said you're 619 00:45:51.960 --> 00:45:57.039 the Alabama the redistricting or redraw. The redrawn map that the Alabama state legislature 620 00:45:57.159 --> 00:46:01.679 did is is not object to state judicial review. Do I have that right? 621 00:46:04.440 --> 00:46:09.599 Uh? Not quite, but it just Supreme Court. The Supreme Court 622 00:46:09.639 --> 00:46:15.800 base said we're not going to overturn that map, even though when you drew 623 00:46:15.920 --> 00:46:20.800 the map you can take race, and you took race into account. So 624 00:46:21.239 --> 00:46:24.480 some people think, oh, that's a contradiction with yesterday's decision saying you can't 625 00:46:24.559 --> 00:46:30.000 use race. So this is where so there's a I could give a political 626 00:46:30.079 --> 00:46:36.639 explanation for this or constitutional explanation. The political explanation is I think after last 627 00:46:36.760 --> 00:46:42.239 term with Daubs and the Second Amendment cases, I think that I think Chief 628 00:46:42.320 --> 00:46:45.639 Justice Roberts and the Conservatives say, there's only so much we can do any 629 00:46:45.679 --> 00:46:49.440 one year. There's only so many Apple carts we're going to turn over. 630 00:46:50.280 --> 00:46:52.519 And so if we're going to strike down affirmative action, if we're going to 631 00:46:52.599 --> 00:47:00.159 strike down Biden's student loan program, right, we're and again I think this 632 00:47:00.320 --> 00:47:05.039 is just Roberts and Kevanaugh, but primarily Roberts. He's basically, we're going 633 00:47:05.079 --> 00:47:08.119 to leave a law of the rest of the law alone. And so the 634 00:47:08.239 --> 00:47:14.480 Court has for many years to allow the considerations of race and drawing racial drawing 635 00:47:14.559 --> 00:47:19.880 congressional districts, and so conservatives are upset with Roberts because they're saying, how 636 00:47:19.960 --> 00:47:22.880 could you do that? This is inconsistent. You shouldn't allow the use of 637 00:47:22.960 --> 00:47:27.079 race here either. But I think Roberts just said, we're just going to 638 00:47:27.199 --> 00:47:30.719 leave the way we've been doing business here untouched. I think a lot of 639 00:47:30.800 --> 00:47:37.119 conservatives think it's wrong and unconstitutional to use race even when you draw congressional districts. 640 00:47:37.159 --> 00:47:39.960 And then the question is, even how do you do it right? 641 00:47:40.079 --> 00:47:44.960 I mean, how do you you know you're making the worst stereotypical judgments of 642 00:47:45.039 --> 00:47:47.440 people based on their race when you pack them into different districts, assuming they're 643 00:47:47.480 --> 00:47:52.519 all going to think and vote the same way. But my view is the 644 00:47:52.639 --> 00:47:57.519 court just didn't have enough, you know, political and intellectual capital to do 645 00:47:57.639 --> 00:48:04.119 it. It doesn't it doesn't consist with the earlier decision or the later decision. 646 00:48:04.159 --> 00:48:06.159 Now, I mean, now that was earlier this month, and so 647 00:48:06.280 --> 00:48:16.199 later this month. Maybe I get that's wrong. Um limiting the state Court's 648 00:48:16.239 --> 00:48:24.480 ability to review election maps drawn by state legislators. So in a sense, 649 00:48:24.599 --> 00:48:30.639 it's consistent in a sense that they're sort of allowing the state elected state representatives 650 00:48:30.840 --> 00:48:32.880 a lot of seems to me, a lot of leeway properly, it seems 651 00:48:32.880 --> 00:48:39.199 to me in deciding how elections are organized run conducted in their states. Is 652 00:48:39.239 --> 00:48:43.320 that so it is consistent in that way or am I? Oh yeah, 653 00:48:43.679 --> 00:48:45.239 yeah, Again, I think there's a short term and a long term. 654 00:48:46.199 --> 00:48:52.760 This is more versus Harper you're talking about, which is whether state legislatures alone 655 00:48:52.920 --> 00:48:58.679 have the right to draw districts or whether other parts of the government can change 656 00:48:58.719 --> 00:49:04.199 them, like governor or in that case, the state Supreme Court. So 657 00:49:04.400 --> 00:49:07.480 I think the short term again is I think Roberts, you know who, 658 00:49:07.760 --> 00:49:13.360 in both of these cases joined with liberals on the court to you know, 659 00:49:13.599 --> 00:49:19.480 basically reach a liberal outcome. I think he just didn't want to fight on 660 00:49:19.679 --> 00:49:27.480 that many fronts at once at once, and particularly that case, because we 661 00:49:27.639 --> 00:49:32.239 may know that a lot of crow Trump people who think the election was stolen 662 00:49:34.159 --> 00:49:38.079 wanted the outcome to be different in that case. Because the parallel provision also 663 00:49:38.119 --> 00:49:44.000 says state legislatures decide how you choose presidential electors. And so if you remember 664 00:49:44.079 --> 00:49:51.119 back to January December, January twenty twenty twenty, Trump's legal advisors were telling 665 00:49:51.239 --> 00:49:57.000 him that the state legislatures could ignore the popular votes in places like Pennsylvania and 666 00:49:57.079 --> 00:50:02.519 Wisconsin and Georgia and just choose the actors themselves for Trump, So I think 667 00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:07.119 the politician and Roberts thinks, Look, the more important issue in the long 668 00:50:07.239 --> 00:50:14.119 run is striking down affirmative as racial preferences. Is stopping this seizure of the 669 00:50:14.159 --> 00:50:17.639 power of the purse by the president. The longer term picture is exactly as 670 00:50:17.679 --> 00:50:21.039 you say, Robin. I, Rob I, I welcome you. I 671 00:50:21.159 --> 00:50:24.079 encourage you to join the ranks of legal scholars because this would be a great 672 00:50:24.199 --> 00:50:28.800 law large journal article. Actually that I think has been missed, which is 673 00:50:31.760 --> 00:50:36.199 now these two cases, plus there's an earlier cases says the Court's not going 674 00:50:36.280 --> 00:50:39.000 to get in the business of trying to draw districts. And then there's an 675 00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:43.199 earlier case called Citizens United, where the court said we're not going to try 676 00:50:43.239 --> 00:50:46.639 to right or decide how much you can contribute to campaigns. I think that 677 00:50:46.880 --> 00:50:52.519 the court is getting out of the business of trying to oversee elections and politics. 678 00:50:52.760 --> 00:50:58.400 You can see in the opinions there's this view politics a dirty messy business. 679 00:50:58.880 --> 00:51:02.920 Judges have no place trying to get involved and clean up democracy. So 680 00:51:04.159 --> 00:51:06.480 we're just going to pull out of the field. Again. This was a 681 00:51:06.519 --> 00:51:08.800 great progressive project. If you think about the Progressives are the one who wanted 682 00:51:08.840 --> 00:51:14.000 to have they have they have teach courses called the law of Democracy the law 683 00:51:14.079 --> 00:51:19.280 of politics, and they were they were trying to push the courts into basically 684 00:51:19.559 --> 00:51:24.159 being the supervisors of elections and politics and political parties. And I think Roberts 685 00:51:24.199 --> 00:51:30.079 and the Conservatives are gradually leaving the field. So not bad good. I 686 00:51:30.119 --> 00:51:32.599 mean, look, if if you don't like if you don't like the way 687 00:51:32.679 --> 00:51:36.800 your districts are drawn, you don't like the way your state elections are held, 688 00:51:36.840 --> 00:51:38.360 you don't like any of that stuff. But the bums out that's America. 689 00:51:38.599 --> 00:51:40.679 You don't go to the Supreme Yeah, they're saying, don't come here 690 00:51:40.719 --> 00:51:44.960 to the Supreme Court anymore. Rob will soon be submitting an article to the 691 00:51:45.039 --> 00:51:46.840 Harvard Law Review. But check it. I think he's going to have chet 692 00:51:46.920 --> 00:51:52.400 GPT have Chap John. We have to let you go, not because we 693 00:51:52.519 --> 00:51:54.400 have to actually, but we're just kind of talking, you know, we're 694 00:51:54.440 --> 00:52:01.800 done with you, so as we could do this gentlemen, always a pleasure 695 00:52:02.000 --> 00:52:07.880 to provide legal advice for free. We will see you at our favorite kind 696 00:52:07.199 --> 00:52:10.119 when it comes to you. Had another victory lab for John. You right 697 00:52:10.199 --> 00:52:15.000 there right, Thanks John, see you guys, Thanks John, Happy fourth 698 00:52:15.119 --> 00:52:21.320 John, Yes, yeah, fourth, Rob. We got about three minutes 699 00:52:21.320 --> 00:52:23.039 here before you have to take off, and I believe that you right at 700 00:52:23.079 --> 00:52:28.599 this very moment back from France. Jet Legged are eager to tell America that 701 00:52:28.719 --> 00:52:30.920 they too can meet Rob Long in person if they come to New York for 702 00:52:31.039 --> 00:52:35.719 a one on one. Right, yeah, sure of, I mean if 703 00:52:35.719 --> 00:52:37.800 I'm here, absolutely, but you can meet each other other than one on 704 00:52:37.880 --> 00:52:42.800 one, because, um, if you really want to take back America, 705 00:52:42.840 --> 00:52:46.280 people are gonna have to get together grassroots level, and that reminds me of 706 00:52:46.440 --> 00:52:52.679 Ricochet meetups. So why not start by getting together with some smart, like 707 00:52:52.760 --> 00:52:55.960 minded people for drinks or several drinks and join Ricochet and we have meetups. 708 00:52:57.000 --> 00:53:00.039 Schedule meetups in Winston, Santalem July fourteen through six. Scene in Portland, 709 00:53:00.119 --> 00:53:02.320 Oregon, July eighteen, So a lot of them are coming up next a 710 00:53:02.320 --> 00:53:07.159 couple of weeks. German Fest meet up in Milwaukee July twenty eighth of July 711 00:53:07.280 --> 00:53:10.840 thirtieth and Cookeville, Tennessee Labor Day weekend September one through fourth. Look, 712 00:53:10.880 --> 00:53:15.320 we have members all over the country. If these dates or times or places 713 00:53:15.400 --> 00:53:19.440 don't work for you, just joined Ricochet. Throw up a post say how 714 00:53:19.440 --> 00:53:22.920 about a meet up here at this time and people will show up because Ricochet 715 00:53:23.079 --> 00:53:27.960 members like to come to a party. And you may say, join Ricochet. 716 00:53:28.000 --> 00:53:30.159 Why what exactly is in it from me? Why I just go to 717 00:53:30.239 --> 00:53:34.199 the site and read it. Well, that's because in the member feed you 718 00:53:34.280 --> 00:53:36.760 have things the likes of which you have never seen before in the Internet. 719 00:53:37.159 --> 00:53:38.280 Okay, maybe you have, but they're not as good, and they're not 720 00:53:38.360 --> 00:53:42.280 as varied, they're not as well. Darry McVey just had a thread the 721 00:53:42.320 --> 00:53:45.920 other day. He has these great threads about Hollywood and Hollywood history and television 722 00:53:45.960 --> 00:53:47.320 and the rest. He had a threat about Destination Moon, the movie that 723 00:53:47.400 --> 00:53:52.039 brought into a George pal and Fritz Lang and buzzalled Run and it was great. 724 00:53:52.159 --> 00:53:55.320 I mean, I just I loved reading that had nothing to do with 725 00:53:55.519 --> 00:54:00.320 politic Well maybe just a little now, but that's Ricoche. When you go 726 00:54:00.360 --> 00:54:04.000 to the member's site, you will find all manner of conversations, and you 727 00:54:04.079 --> 00:54:07.320 know what, it's It's my favorite place. And I write a lot of 728 00:54:07.360 --> 00:54:09.159 stuff there that I don't post to the main feed because I just like to 729 00:54:09.239 --> 00:54:13.079 keep it amongst ourselves and it's fun. So go there, join, It's 730 00:54:13.159 --> 00:54:15.280 cheap and your life will be changed. Peter, what are your plans for 731 00:54:15.360 --> 00:54:22.559 this fourth of July? Expanse Uh, I'm going to say something that's hopelessly 732 00:54:22.639 --> 00:54:24.519 old fashioned, and I will be accused of sexism. My plans are as 733 00:54:24.639 --> 00:54:30.000 usual. I wait for missus Robinson to tell me what we're doing that's Sexual's 734 00:54:30.039 --> 00:54:36.320 tactically tactically wise, tactically very wise. Yes, indeed, um, rob 735 00:54:36.440 --> 00:54:38.320 are you getting out the grill and putting on your kids to cook? Bib? 736 00:54:38.480 --> 00:54:43.079 And oh are you cooking? The family will be gathering, father be 737 00:54:43.199 --> 00:54:45.719 gathering at the beach, and um what we usually do. And I just 738 00:54:46.639 --> 00:54:51.079 Nantucket Long Island, Um nan talk it nan talking. And I have to 739 00:54:51.159 --> 00:54:54.880 be very careful what I what I broke. I don't know if I broke 740 00:54:54.920 --> 00:55:00.719 federalized other Brook state law. Um. I drove quickly out of the New 741 00:55:00.800 --> 00:55:04.400 York state and out of New Jersey state into like the first hundred yards of 742 00:55:04.440 --> 00:55:09.800 Pennsylvania where you can purchase fireworks, and I bought a bunch of those two 743 00:55:10.039 --> 00:55:15.199 shows to let off in an undisclosed location which I will not tell anyone because 744 00:55:15.239 --> 00:55:19.559 it's illegal, and my mom hates it and everyone hates that I do it, 745 00:55:19.599 --> 00:55:22.960 but I do it every year and it's it's part of the thrill, 746 00:55:22.000 --> 00:55:27.119 as of course, is not getting arrested. But I plan to show up. 747 00:55:27.360 --> 00:55:30.760 I plan to blame my nephew, who's you know, strapping a seventeen 748 00:55:30.840 --> 00:55:36.639 year old football player but couldn't very international waters. Yeah, I don't know. 749 00:55:36.639 --> 00:55:39.480 What's that buckley thing with a red exactly. I wrote one of my 750 00:55:39.559 --> 00:55:43.639 columns this week for the newspaper I had. I gave it over my dog 751 00:55:43.880 --> 00:55:46.719 to explain why fireworks are bad and why we should stop doing them. And 752 00:55:46.960 --> 00:55:50.639 I thought, just for fun, I'm going to use a photoshop Beta's new 753 00:55:50.679 --> 00:55:55.320 Generative AI to create a bug a photo illustration of my dog to replace mine 754 00:55:55.360 --> 00:55:59.519 in the newspaper in the style of the newspaper. And I did a really 755 00:55:59.559 --> 00:56:01.159 good job of it too, So my dog is taking over to explain why 756 00:56:01.320 --> 00:56:06.079 Rob and his fireworks loving people are the worst. I love them. I 757 00:56:06.360 --> 00:56:10.119 love them my neighbor actually does what Rob does, but gets industrial grade stuff. 758 00:56:10.440 --> 00:56:15.280 So we have displays pretty good stuff that are just extraordinary. But when 759 00:56:15.280 --> 00:56:17.920 it comes to the rest of it, I'm just going to throw some broads 760 00:56:19.000 --> 00:56:21.199 on the girls. And that's a problem because I'm out of gas. So 761 00:56:21.239 --> 00:56:27.159 I'm looking at trichinosis here down the line. Fourth of July. So soon, 762 00:56:27.280 --> 00:56:29.559 as my mother always said, after this, it just seems like the 763 00:56:29.599 --> 00:56:32.719 summer's over runs through your fingers like water. But she's wrong. Of course, 764 00:56:32.719 --> 00:56:36.880 We've got two big, stern, brawny months standing in front of us 765 00:56:36.960 --> 00:56:39.599 before the fall. July is great, hot August, as we know, 766 00:56:39.760 --> 00:56:44.079 is this big bulwark against the fall, against the winter. Right, So 767 00:56:44.239 --> 00:56:49.000 I always think until the cicadas stopped droning and I realized that it's getting cooler 768 00:56:49.079 --> 00:56:53.000 in the days are getting shorter. But why why I think about that when 769 00:56:53.039 --> 00:56:58.199 we can luxuriate in three great victories of the Supreme Court, a renewed sense 770 00:56:58.280 --> 00:57:01.519 of American optimism. The fourth of July, as ever on, we mun 771 00:57:01.800 --> 00:57:05.639 muddle on, we go on west, ride on, we march, and 772 00:57:06.239 --> 00:57:09.199 we'll see everybody in the comments. And Ricochet, I say, four point 773 00:57:09.239 --> 00:57:13.599 zero four now but five point is right around the corner. You'll want to 774 00:57:13.880 --> 00:57:15.760 join now so you can get in and the fun. Gentlemen, Happy fourth, 775 00:57:16.199 --> 00:57:27.559 Happy fourth Next week, boys, Happy fourth of July. Ricochet join 776 00:57:27.639 --> 00:57:28.360 the conversation.