And it's here. The day has arrived. Welcome back, everybody. Did
we thank me to be here? Nope? Welcome to Snap the Podcast.
I'm your host, Meghan Thompson. And this is Snapped, the Q and
A, The Reunion, the Reunion Snapped. Hello, Lucy. How's it
feel to be in the hot seat today? If I feel ready ready to
wrap up Snapped? I feel ready to wrap it up and to just tell
your truth, tell my truth, respond to the speculation. Put everything out
in the open. Put everything out in the open, the air, clear
the air, and wrap it up, wrap it up. I'm Megan.
I am the production supervisor for Snap the Podcast. Ever since day one,
day zero, when it was called how Greek Life Failed Me, Oh my
god, it was called back I forgot about that, which I mean,
it's still a good title. It's still a good title, but Snapped is
so much much so speaking of early on Snapped, and I think that we
should start this episode by talking about the start of Snapped a little, but
I think we should go way way back too, because I mean when I
say that I've been here since day one, I mean since before even our
first day at college. And I think that it's worth going through beginning to
how we ended up here, because it's kind of funny. So Lucy and
I first met via Facebook. We both got into Maryland. I am from
a little town in Maryland. Lucy is from the Big Apple and we both
went were decided to go to Maryland. And we met on Facebook Messenger in
one of those Facebook groups for like find your roommate. And I remember I
thought you were so cool. Well, we you definitely hit it off.
We were on a roll. We were on a roll. You were cool.
I thought you were so cool. I remember telling my friend about you.
I'm like, oh my gosh, this is going to be it,
like, this is my roommate. I think this is her? And then
you ghost be yeah and whatever. She ghost then the first day of college.
No, you missed you. Did you miss Why I ghosted you?
Because you met someone else? Yeah? It was in between two people.
Yeah, and you So you chose her? Well, she was from California.
I wanted to deliver. You chose her. I thought you just got
wrapped in. No, I chose her. You what you didn't know this?
No? I thought you just got like wrapped in. How do you
think I? No? I made a choice. Well, it wasn't like
one or the other. It was like I was talking to a lot of
people. I was playing a lot of people. But it wasn't like I
don't remember if it came down between you and her, but I do remember
you living in New York City and her living in southern California, and I
was like, I'd rather live in southern California. Like like, I like,
I chose wrong, MICHAELA. If you're listening, oh I love you,
don't dos her? Why would it dos her? Cala from southern California.
If you're listening, I love you, and I push it our time.
But I think I think we ended up in the right spot here.
No, but but I'm so glad that I was with who I was with
my roommate, Gema. I agree it was perfect that it ended up the
way it was and that I did ghosted you. But now we're on the
funny. Now this story really bands because we ran into each other. Oh
my god. No, it was in the dorm meeting. Remember on the
first day in our dorms, we had like an all door meeting where it
was like with the ras. We saw each other and you were Gemma and
I was with a Kayla, and I was like, that's the fucking girl
I ghosted. That's the girl. Oh my god, she lives next door
to me. That's the girl I ghosted. I didn't know that you knew
right away, but now and I didn't know that you knew right I knew
right away too, and we shared a wall. All. So freshman year
comes and goes, well, I had a friend crush on your friend group
the whole time. Yeah, I didn't have a friend crush on yours,
right, Well, it's funny that you had a friend crush on my friend
group because, like, I thought you were one of like the cool girls,
Like, do you know what I mean by that? I thought I
thought you guys were down to earth. We were we were below the earth,
We were the dark people. No, no, no, but I
like that you guys smoked and like, and we were funny. Yeah,
you were funny. And you guys were always laughing in the elevator going someplace.
We were well, we were always going to smoke weed or the dining
hall after smoking weed. Because I never joined Greek life, I never even
considered it. And that's not necessarily because I thought, no, no,
I thought it was dumb. I thought it was dumb at the beginning.
I actually that's the thing. I never wanted to join it at first.
I started wanting to join it after you joined, and after I saw what
began on fold the second semester, the party, the plans, the fun
like that's when that was the first time I was like, fuck, it's
fun to dress up, but it's also it's access to like a part of
college that's so marketed and desirable. And even me, who from the beginning,
was like, that's stupid, Like I thought, like from the beginning,
I called I thought that it was the things that it ended up being
really being. But even that, so as soon as I saw what it
gave people in college, I wanted it to right. It didn't matter that
I knew it was X, Y and Z right, it was the social
access that it got you that like you yearn for at a time when in
the first few weeks of college it's like so overwhelming and it's all in your
face and you meet people inevitably because you have to sometimes, but then it
like kind of stagnates and it's like, all right, I'm here now,
now what like I want to like branch out right, and it gets that's
when it gets really hard to branch out. And that's what I think Greek
life like really provides, is like I had like plans in the dining hall,
yes, and you were always like the people want to and you were
talking to the parties and stuff. The friend group that you were on VSF
I mean, as you know, that was the same friend group I had
all four years. So I eventually joined who yeah, who? You eventually
joined later on, But freshman year would me would be so happy? Damn
well, you really did it, you really joined, You just joined,
You shaped, you infiltrated, and you shaped part of it later on.
It wouldn't have been the same without you later on, also because you were
my first girl. Ally, the friend group we're talking about was also all
boys, and I would never ever want to be in that situation again in
my life. But Tinis, actually, I know, I know the not
listening. The Tinese are not listening. They've never listened to one episode.
So anyway, freshman year ends and we go over the summer. You have
what seems to be one of the worst summers of your life. You were
snapped and I was sad and you were sad and everything went down how that
was sad but went back. But you didn't know that. I didn't know.
We weren't keeping up, but we weren't in touch by the No,
we weren't. And it was like, but we saw each other, and
my roommate relationship was deteriorating a little bit, and so I was in a
place a feeling a little bit lost as well, going into sophomore year,
right, and you were feeling lost because you were snapped. Also, I
was living in this house and that that was just awful. I think regardless
of if I had been snapped or not, I think I would have had
an awful, awful time regardless of that house. I agree in a quad,
I was so overstimulated. I had no privacy, literally, no way,
no privacy. Call that home that was and that was like I did
not ever like it was a home. Ever, It's sophomore year. We
are on Mackelden Mall and we run into each other in between classes, like
it's like we're walking right towards each other. It's like it's the first time
we see each other. This is the first time you shanged see each other.
At this point, I need to get out of my dorm. And
you were in the house, miserable for your life, and by that point
you've been snapped and you felt ostracized by everybody. Yeah, I was felt
so alienated. Yeah, and I am like, hey, Lucy, oh
my god. And I said how I said to you, how's like how
are you? Like are you? How's the sword? Like? How's that?
And you literally said to me right then on the mall like for the
first like we barely had spoken, and one of the first things you said
to me like it's awful, it's actually going real, Like I actually need
to get out of the house, Like that was one of the first things
I said. And I was dying to tell someone who who wasn't in it,
I bet and I because I had never joined, So you're like,
okay, that didn't have all of the propaganda, right, I wasn't going
to tell you that that's like normal because I had the opposite reaction. I
was like, Wow, we're going to need to discuss the further because I
need to know. I need to know everything about why this is going badly.
That place looks nuts. Because I also was so intrigued and like,
what do you mean it's going badly. It looks so fun. So we
hung out like like the that night, like that night, it was urgent.
It was urgent, and that was like the beginning. That was the
That was the beginning of I would say that that was one of the big
that was like the origin of like snapped the idea that when you tell somebody
else happens what happened, you need to the reaction is so different, so
different when you tell somebody that was like, oh, like you need to
surround yourself as night possible people outside the group. And that was like yeah,
because I was immediately like, what do you mean You've got a bunch
of girls commenting on your Instagram this cryptic message that like means that you're a
slut? That sounds like hell on Earth. We decided to move in together
pretty much within like a week because I was going to stick it out for
one more semester. Maybe because I was in, I had the least I
thought I couldn't get out of it. I was slowly, I was sneakily
searching. You know, getting out is a process. It's not a single
act. As Alexandra Stein puts it in her book Tare eleven brainwashing. You
know, it's there might be a lot of false starts. Is how is
what she got? I mean it's like an abusive relationship, right takes an
average seven times? Right. I was like looking online at the door,
you know, because because you need an escape plan, you can't just get
out. So that's when we move in together. And that's I don know.
First I have first I move out. You helped me move out?
Oh yeah, yeah, I help you move out the sorority house. What
was the house like? Well, that was the condition is that I would
help you move out. But I needed to see it. I needed to
see the pink palace. What do you think it was scary? I was
prepared to be wowed. I was prepared to feel like, damn, it
must be terrible if you're moving out of this heaven because I thought that that's
what it was like. That's what I thought that. But when you go
in, it's like, this is so unnatural. This is not a home
in any way, shape or form. This is somebody else. It's like
I'm living in the white house. Yeah, like that's what it was like,
but a pink white house that is filled with people that are watching,
watching, every move and I'm in a quad with the quad. Was that's
but that's when I saw the quad. And I also saw the girls in
the quad that were looking at us like bugs on the wall, literally in
pity. Like we were like, no, I think they pitied me.
They were like, I think they were like, oh, well, she
it's probably for best, like she's very mentally And I was at the point
where I didn't care. I mean not that I didn't care. I can't
say that I didn't care, but I would have rather been out and dealt
with the re percussions than stay in. And I wasn't indoctrinated enough. It
was I was. I never held a leader ship position. They pushed me
at the breaking point quick enough, quick enough, And I understand because I
don't think that you're the type of person that could have ever thrived in that
environment regardless of what they did. Do you, I know? But could
you imagine if they didn't push me to that point I ended up staying.
I think you I think you would have left a different way. No,
it's hard to say in Hindia because knowing you now, it seems so far
from something that you would be involved in. But I also think at the
time you were always going to be a little too theatrical, a little too
a little too much for what they needed you to be. I never yeah,
and it would recruitment would have been hard for me. Oh, that
might have retreatment. They would have. They would have put you in the
basement after the first because I wouldn't have done my hair. No, you
would have. It would have been half straightened. My back at the back
wouldn't be straightened, and that would have been and they could like they'd all
be standing up talking and be like sitting on the windowsill, like I really
need a snack. No. Literally, were you disappointed by HBO's Bama rushdoc,
Like, don't you want to actually find out what goes on behind the
scenes at recruitment? Well Snapped has got you covered. In season two's recruitment
special, we delve into the process that determines which potential new members make the
final cut into a sorority's new pledge class. You can listen to the season
two Recruitment special anywhere you listen to podcasts, and here's a quick trailer.
People look at recruitment and you know they think it's just thrown together. You've
gone through recruitment. The people who you talk to not a coincident. Trust
the process. A lot of the rules about recruitment are kept from the members.
They kept telling me, I do not tell girls that we score them
in number of time. They ran like analytics that looked like fucking election night.
But I over heard them saying like, we need to recruit as many
pretty girls as we can, and then the rest we need to like make
quota. What comments stuck it out most to you? The one that stuck
out to me the most list this girl is Jewish, but it's okay because
she doesn't have a big nose. I was not allowed to talk about anything
I read. And the advisor who was in the room with us, she
was like, yeah, after this, I take all of these slips and
I stress them in my apartments and no one can ever find it. Trust
the process. I was diversity chair at the time, so the amount of
like women of color I talked to. Anybody of color was always talking to
me always because you were the diversity chair. Yeah. And then I also
remember one girl emailing us in the PHA and saying that she's Asian. In
all sixteen houses, she got matched with someone Asian for the first round of
recruitment, just trust the process snapped. So the reason that we're here today
is because there were a lot of questions that were left unanswered by the season
and wanted to give listeners a chance to have a little bit of input because
season three was like a big investigation. What there was less of in season
three was your perspective, which is good because I think that it was a
bigger story. But I think that your perspective is still desired, and I
think that's what we're doing here today is going to go a little bit behind
the scenes. We have a big list of listener questions here. These are
actually almost all listener questions except for a few by me. Ready to get
started, ready to die, then let's do it. So what made you
take the leap and start the podcast? So I think what made me take
the leap and start the podcast was how strongly I felt about the topic and
how I could start to see the gas lighting and just clearly seeing the moral
like what I thought was morally right and wrong. Do you feel like as
you got farther out of it, you were more prepared to speak out about
it. Definitely in season one, I mean with season three even more so
than I was with season one. Before it was a podcast, it was
a video series. Well, but you know how it became Well, how
it started as the video series was I contacted the writer and director of Slept
the Play, Yes, Katie cup Yellow, and I met with her for
coffee because she created this amazing play that inspired me, Slept the Play.
I highly recommend it, and she and I had coffee together and she was
said, made this video series, and she really empowered me. Was like,
like I told her about the like the chant of how to Toddy got
him out? Who the fuck are we? How do spot Cox out for
the ALFA Fe's And she's like make that the theme song? Almost yeah,
Like she's just like she was like, do something with this. Yeah.
So so her validation was incredible. And then I took that podcast course and
that's when I turned it from a video series to a podcast. I remember
that because I was like, this is really how to immerse the audience.
Yeah, So that was later though. Yeah, I mean I started recording
it as a pod video series for a full year. It is not a
podcast before, like because a full year that I remember that we were living
together something else selling music videos, yes for it, which was nuts nuts,
But that's that's why I wanted to go back. I was singing like
medicine, beer stays to my face. I think that the that was nuts,
nuts and whole different. But that goes back to what I was feeling
is it's like, I think what it started was a lot of more healing
for you. It was all healing at first. It wasn't supposed to know
it was the beginning it was. It wasn't supposed to be something when other
people could be like, oh I relate to this. It was like,
it was this is my power. What happened to me? Yeah, this
is what happened. You knew that. Obviously you weren't the only one this
was happening to. But at the time, it wasn't like Greek life as
a whole is so fucked up. It was like this, well I knew
it was, you knew it was, but I don't think that was the
message of the thing. It was like this this slug shaming, this sorority,
it's not right, like it was what happened to you. But I
think it just blew up from there. It got so much bigger it's like
hazing wasn't addressed in the first season, like there was so much even though
in the sense it was you were haze. Yeah, it wasn't, like
but there was so much more there's and there still is so much more,
right there is there's still so much much covered because it's extensive. You had
to cut a lot because if you wanted to talk about everything that was fucked
up with Greek life, you could literally really make a weekly podcast about it,
which someone should fund. Anyway, were you scared of Snapped season one
being unsuccessful? I wasn't worried about it being unsuccessful, because that's not why
I was making it. I wasn't making it to be a success, whereas
with season three, I was making it to be a success. Yes,
it was, it was I knew, I always knew it would have a
audience. Well, yeah, I remember us having a lot of conversations about
how positive or negative that audience would be, because for a long time we
thought that it was going to be just a lot of backlash from We had
these long conversations. I remember that, but I think that what I learned
from it was that I already had heard those opinions that's one hundred pers So
I was already determined in my head that those are not opinions. You had
already been through the worst of it. You weren't as much worried about like
you were so anti that point. That was like, I don't care,
But it's been different if it was right away, definitely it would have been
also different. It was like the video series where it was like, I
think that I'm glad the video you being like Uber vulnerable in a way that
wasn't necessarily for them. It wasn't thought out yet. There wasn't enough time,
I don't think in between non events because it was Yeah, I needed
to tell it from a bird's eye view, right. So that said,
with seasons one through three being wrapped up, how do you feel about people
asking for season four? Do you let me let me break this question down.
Do you want to do a season four? Yes? Or no?
Yeah? I mean I think this could go on for seasons and seasons.
There are plenty of stories to tell and plenty of stories, plenty of people
willing to tell those stories. And I remember one of the other questions or
someone mentioned, like what do you need for a season four? Like is
it the content and like, no, the content, it's not the issue.
It's the funding. I mean, I'm I can see some of the
snap Instagram stuff and like it's like the inbox is full, there's plenty of
content there. Like it's just they think that goes into why season four can't
happen right now? Is that, Like it's just really you and it's yeah,
it's a full time job that doesn't have a salary that comes with it
except like the money that you make. But it's not like you're making fucking
buckets out here. It's well, people don't know about snapped is the money
that you put into it from your own and not your parents' money, not
anybody's like money, nobody's credit card. It was your money from working that
you put into buying the software, buying the equipment, paying other people for
like paying to the other people at least minimum wage for the shit that they
were doing for the podcast, which I think was like there were a few
people that I'm sure you didn't need to, including myself, that you like
you, you really put a lot of your own resources into this podcast,
is what I'm saying. All the money that you did make back from it,
like it was paying yourself back. It's not like you came out of
this like exactly, I paid myself back. And it's like if someone wants
to fund, if somebody wants to make it possible, right, we don't
have a big enough audience I think for it to be Patreon funded. Yeah,
no, And it's just it's it's also it's just unreliable. It's putting.
I need a network behind it that has their own lawyers and right,
it's it's it's running a business, right, it's running a business. And
I think beyond that, I think you put a lot of your time into
this, and it's time and like it becomes yeah it becomes it's twenty four
or not twenty four hours, but it becomes your life. Yeah, I'm
not just a nice girl who wanted a leadership position. Yes, but yeah,
at least you actually had a real leadership position and not not accountability chair.
Yeah. That was the next question is how could season four happen?
Do you need more content funding? How can we help? I think at
this point, I don't think you Answerry. This isn't Mike Q and I
what were you going to say? I was going to say at this point.
I mean, it's it's not just about funding, it's also about your
life, and like you need to be able to turn off work. And
I think Snapped was it became your whole life and but that was Yes,
I agree, but I think that Snaps could not be my whole life if
I had the appropriate resources. And that's where things like funding more of a
team, right, there needs to be a team that it's really not even
about funding. It's about the tea team, which is I need to be
I need to have my role, whether that's the host, whether that's the
producer what you know, and like I can't. I want to like I'll
have input, I'm sure, but like I can't, And like I did
have help, you know, but not but it was no one working on
it in the same soundse thing you did ninety five to ninety seven percent of
the work for the entire podcast. I would say, like as far as
on the ground, boots on the ground, I would say ninety three.
Okay, that's fair, ninety three, but still I still wouldn't. I
wouldn't have gotten to certain places without you, like follow the money. When
I was there thinking about me, I was like, well, can we
put it a lot, but Cammy did too. I would no, I
guess something about certain certain phrases wouldn't have been without CAMMI. So season four,
how could it happen? I think that I think the only way help.
Yeah, I think that either a media company would need to get behind
it. Huh. And it's a hands on writing and if I lose some
creative control, I lose some creative control. Right, I've never I'm okay
with that, right because I think that at the it's something bigger, it's
something bigger, it's more of it's a cause. Now it's a cause,
And I don't want to be right. You know, you want to You
want your baby to grow up exactly and be able to watch her fly snapped.
That's one of my favorite questions. I mean this so nicely, but
have you thought about getting a social media person? I feel like your conduct
on social media is hard to take seriously, especially because of how serious the
subject matter of your podcast is. So I guess the question in there is
have you thought about getting a social media person? So I've reflected on this
question. Yeah, And I think, first of all, it's hard to
fully answer because I don't know specifically what they're referring to, and so for
me, all I can think about is like, what was it this or
this? Like what do they think? What do you mean by conduct?
Right? Like? Which which conduct? Yeah, you're like, I've posted
a lot of things, right, a lot of good Yeah, I know
what you mean. And I mean I understand in the sense that some of
the content I post is cheeky. Yeah, it wouldn't be what like CNN
is posting. I guess, yeah, well I think that I don't know
what do you think? I think that this goes back to you. This
question comes back to this just being what started as your baby and your healing
process that turned into a much larger scale investigation that required marketing and reels on
or shit on TikTok and Instagram posts and like the amount of work that goes
into that conduct isn't a social media person. You're talking about PR? They
think I need PR. Yeah, they think that your conduct on social media
is hard to take seriously, which is like you Like, for me,
what comes up is like like writing with like in caps sometimes or like heart
eyes maybe, and then another part of me is like you want to know
what I honestly think it is when I when I think it is No,
I don't think it's butt picks and if it is anything like that, which
it probably is, at least part something. First of all, part of
this question is a little bit of the reason that you were snapped in the
first price, which is why inappropriate contact. But I think that's where the
I understand part of this question is that I think we talked about this throughout
the podcast making this is your baby and very much a thing that was yours
and you wanted to put Lucy into. But then season three is a lot
of other people's stories, right, it's so much we're serious, So you
had to still the host. You had to find a balance between how much
of Lucy do you put out into the podcast? And in the podcast you
were an incredible neutral journalist that I think you did a great great job of,
like handing over the mic in the podcast. Social media is your opportunity.
Media is a little bit to show yourself. Yeah, and it's a
little more care free, yeah, as it should have been. As it
should have been, And that's where a lot of the work comes in.
You didn't have the time and the resources to be spending six hours reviewing and
editing and asking those kind of questions about social media. It's like, right,
and and I don't know. For me, there's no I don't.
I can't think of a social media post that I regret. Yeah, I
really can't really think I didn't. I thought I appreciate feedback if maybe something
more specific, I don't know. I did say that they mean this so
nice, So I think we're to treat it as a nice comment, meant
well. And they'd want the success of the podcast. And I hear me
too, me too. And if it did have the resources, and you
know, let's say I got made the host, I still can always have
some right like if this, if that becomes a season four where you have
attainment stuff, I'm happy for someone to give me not that kind of conduct,
Yeah, exactly, And you know, I'm happy to make adjustments.
That brings me to our next question is, would you like to comment on
the singing allegations singing gate? Singing gate, which you can't say I didn't
as a production serivisor I listen if you if you loved the singing, you
just skip this part. But if you hated the singing, you think it
was polarizing I know it was polarizing because I know some people liked it.
I bet I'm sure some people liked it. Some people hated it, and
that's fine. It was polarizing. It was polarizing. I think, who's
to say that's bad. My vocal fire is polarizing too. Yeah, but
fuck that, Yeah, fuck that. But it was I understood the singing
more because I cut we cut a lot more singing, Right, You're like,
yeah, if you didn't like the singing, and be grateful that she
didn't put all the singing in. This started as a music video series.
Y'all don't understand. Y'all don't understand. But I think that goes back to
the last question too, is that there was a lot of you in this
podcast, and like, right, and I always tried to make the singing
relatable. Like I remember in season one when I did singing. I remember
I once said, what time is it? Makeup time? It's the second
day of fresh I loved that one. Yeah, Like, you know,
it is to keep it engaging and to keep you hooked, right, you
know, I think I tried to be as strategic about it as possible.
You know, I think that I did take note of this serious under not
undertones the serious nature of the episodes. Like with the Tim Piazza episode,
I didn't even have the snapped, you know, like I there was no
music, so I don't know. For me, I did it intentionally and
this podcast was produced, edited, hosted by me, and you know it
it. I think some people get second hand embarrassment. They cringe and they're
not What they don't know is that we're not embarrassed and you're not printing,
so you can't get secondhand embarrassment when the first person isn't embarrassed. It's and
it comes down to that they feel vulnerable, right, they feel like I
wouldn't do that. I wouldn't put myself out there like that. And it's
like that's the same thing with the butt pick. Yeah, it's it's it
goes. That's what this whole question too about conduct. It's like, if
someone makes you cringe, can you police them? It depends what the cringe
is. No, it depends. I mean, I can talk shit,
but I'm not, but I'm not going to impede on their right to make
me cringe. It's not going to be like, what is this conduct?
Maybe that's why they were mad about the seat geek ad. People were mad
about the seat I don't know. I'm just thinking that's another time I sang,
oh yeah, and that's a huge well the seaekd. I thought it
was silly. I thought it was interesting that they'd be like, why is
she singing? It was also funny if you knew the affiliating song that was
funny, which I thought it was. I don't regret it, good,
don't regret it. I don't regret the seat geek ad and seat geek use
the code though, snapped at checkout when you're using seat geek and just use
seat geek if you're gonna book seats, you're gonna book seats, use seat
geek and use codes snapped and I didn't sing the song, so you're welcome.
Snapped to see what all the fuss is about. Follow Snapped on Instagram
and take talk at Snaps the Podcast. While the season might be over,
our social media presence isn't our TikTok and Instagram is where you'll find all post
production updates and you'll get a bunch of fun content that didn't make it on
the podcast. Follow Today at Snaps the Podcast. You won't regret it or
maybe you will. No one knows snapped. Did you ever cover Greek Rank?
No, but I once did a video of responding to my hate comments
that was Greek rank. I think it's on Patreon. Crank is a successpool
that website. Yeah, well, Meg used to go there for fun,
to fight with people. Sometimes people would impersonate me. They'd like Lucy.
Yeah, no, people would impersonate me. No, you didn't impersonate me.
But but sometime times you would be on there, like on behalf of
the podcast ring right. That's the best gorilla marketing. If you can do
anything for this podcast. If you want a season four, the share it
word of mouth on your Instagram story, give your full stamp of approval.
You need to listen to this create urgency. If that's if you want a
season four, you need to post it on your story and spread it word
of mouth. And if you know of an executive or if you are wealthy,
what's your opinion on business fraternities compared to social ones. And I'm gonna
change this question, not just business fraternities, but the professional ones. I
think that no matter what, it's an environment that's more susceptible to hazing and
to tears and secret things. I was never in one, and I haven't
interviewed forty people from one from them. I have heard some stories in my
inbox about business fraternities being negative and you know, feeling that same ostracization.
Yeah, and so I've heard not good things. But I'm not I'm no
expert, but I think they share a lot of the common traits and I'm
not going to endorse them. I think they're better good, and maybe they're
not better even who knows. Yeah, what would you tell somebody close to
you or a friend that wants to rush? A family member went all the
way to chapter president and it's all she talks about. It's risky, risky
business. I'll be honest with you. I think there's a difference between talking
to someone who's already rushed and is in it versus talking someone that hasn't rushed
yet. Very true. But then again, I know that I spoke with
Cammy about and I warned her and she joined out and feet right, So
right, I don't think anyone can. So I it's tough. It's tough
because on one hand, it's like I don't want people to normalize this.
How It's like when people are like, I think I'm going to join a
fray or something and we're just like, oh cool, which one? You
know? I don't think that should be the reaction though, either. But
where is what's what reaction is going to have an impact because it's surely not
this one that's just brushing it off as a normal thing. I think Greek
life has also set up a lot of propaganda surrounding it about what Greek life
is. That when somebody buys into that, you feel a little bit threatened
when somebody tells you not to because it's like, well, I know people
like you say that it's the X, Y and Z, and it's actually
not. I think there was a question that as an ra what should I
say? And I think it should be come from a place of empathy and
curiosity that you listen to this podcast called Snapped, and you should definitely listen
to it before considering joining. But what do you think you should say to
a family member, Let's say your cousin who's in it and is now president,
so you know they're indoctrinated. I don't think there's a lot that you
I don't think Yeah, I think again, empathy, appeal to them as
a person, and even though they may be frustrating right now, try and
keep hanging out with them, at least to as much as you can,
because the less isolated they are, the more of a chance they'll get out.
How do you deal with the aftermath of dropping? I feel kind of
lost getting involved in as many communities as you can. Cling to the friend
that you know that isn't Yeah to them and have them introduce you to their
friends and tell them about your experience and hear their thoughts from an outside perspective.
Right, Yeah, talk to people who are in Greek life about your
experience. Yeah, I think a lot of people will validate you that.
Like it might feel like right now you're in the minority, but if you
start talking to people, it's really the majority. You're actually in the majority.
Right And the people who are in Greek life, if you speak to
them five years from now, there's a good chance what they'll today is very
different. Also, Like in the I know it probably it probably feels like
everything's crumbling right now, but like let it crumble, enjoy. There's gonna
be a lot of time in life that you spend alone, right, You
know, like, get enjoy you because you're not supposed to be in this.
You don't need to be around people twenty four to seven and start unfollowing
them on Instagram, you know, take take the the lens out as much
as you can. Even though they're still on campus, they're still dominating the
social scene. So it's hard. And give yourself grace for feeling that because
there's no way to not feel that. They're gonna feel resentment and go to
the club fair and I think at the botto of the line, know that
it's it makes sense why you're not thriving in this system that's made. It's
not meant for us to thrive in. Like the American drinking age is twenty
one. Frats have full control over the scene. Like where we there's no
there's not a lot of esthetically pleasing public space. It makes sense why you're
struggling socially right now because it's a very weird realm. College is very weird,
and it's also quick and pleading. You got this snapped if you haven't
yet, please please please rate Snapped wherever you listen to podcasts and leave a
review. This helps the podcast be more discoverable. On platforms, and I'd
love to hear about what you thought of this season or season two or season
one. Thank you so much for supporting this independent podcast Snapped. Do you
have plans for recourse? If and when these organizations come from you come for
you. That's a funny question. Have they come for you? Have you
been came for? Yesizations, Yes, I've been came for. This could
be a whole. This, this could be this topic could be a whole.
It really could be a hold up. So that's why it's like,
how much do we I think that you should tell the listeners who reached out
to you shortly or I guess it was the middle of the season, coming
out right after son on Alpha FE And it's so funny because I thought the
season desists would come at either follow the money or the H word part two.
You know, there was always a possibility for a season discessed, no
season desist for the biggest, the biggest parts of like right, but to
them was the biggest part funny about it? Right? Well, it was
it was that's what our came. Someone else in the Snap team said she
was like like when I told her, she was like, like, we
thought it would come follow the money in right, but well, well well
look who decided to show uh? The director of Accountability International sent Lucy a
season desssed I woke up, I see it screenshot immediately sent to you on
like we're caught. They found us, they found that it's done. Oh
my god, I mean, I my blood when you start like immediately racing
like like fight or flight. My second day my job and has now become
my job, right like it it was a crisis because it's it is a
crisis. That's the They're very threatening. This is my first seasoness is ever
you didn't from an international in my opinion, cult, yeah, well national,
they call themselves international. I think Canada. I think they they just
say that because they have one job in Canada, baby, allegedly in my
opinion. And mind you, I've always had the law involved you always,
I mean the law and I always had the law in the back of my
mess, always been behind the scenes, ready in the word. But you
know what I mean, i'd bely is this legal. It's not like we
didn't think about it, right, This was not willy nilly. This was
very everything was very thought. So I was like fuck yeah. So when
then the system. The cease came. I don't know what this means.
I don't know what trademark laws are. You don't know. I don't know
just who consent, I don't They said in the letter, we're gonna do
you want to? Yeah, let me because long story short with this season
just says that it is one of the phoniest documents I personally seen. I
mean, it is an embarrassment because they put their logo because it was in
a PDF, and they said they were going to assue me if I didn't
sign it, which is nuts. They tried to trap you trap that was
a trap. That's crazy. And you said you were like, I think
I need to sign it or you really no, I never was going to
sign it, said you know, let me fair, okay, fair and
valid. But you said they need a signature, and that was that was
one of my first Yeah yeah, these monsters because right, and that's not
something that that's a red flag. If your season just just has a signature,
contact a lawyer. Contact the lawyer because they're trying to drop you in
a contract. Contact a lawyer. Do the intake call for free right because
I'm over here calling four one one, calling in New York, like it's
nine am. I'm like calling them, I'm like my former sororities trying to
assume me. What do I do? Trademark law. I think that's where
we're going to read it, because I think the funniest part about this I
was so confused because they sent one saying that you were violating trademark law.
Let's just read it. No, I'll read it. But I think that
it's important to say, is that, like the obvious thing that Alpha Fie
would send you a seasons for is defamation, saying that you are defaming us,
you are hurting our character as an organization. In order for something to
be defamation, you have to be lying. And alphaie is not going to
say that you were lying or sue you for allegedly lying, because that opens
up many doors, many many doors for you to then say I'm not lying
and here's why, and here's the screenshots in court documents, things like that.
So they're never going to try and even threaten that right unless they're willing
to crack that box open right now, trademark law. Whoever, that was
their end, that was their in or what they thought, what whoever,
whatever, But was it still on an Alpha fe That triggered it the fact
that I used their name in the title. They had no they sent you
a season desist for a law like there was no legal basis. That's people
who reviewed this were like, they clearly didn't have a lawyer look over this
season desist, right, lawyer didn't send it. It came from the director
of accountability. And you can imagine, to my surprise, director accounability first
of all, and the international president. I already know who she is and
it's not pretty. And in my research, like just imagine me knowing who
this woman is, knowing she allegedly created Alpha Fe's racist, in my opinion,
recruitment strategy, and now here she is at the bottom of my email
full circle. Just don't send us letters if you don't want them read aloud,
or don't have the director of accountability send us letters on your behalf in
my opinion, but still still work. They still had You know, I
still had fear because I would have gone into debt. Yeah, I mean,
because that's the whole thing that they know I don't have money. That's
what they were going for a hoping that you wouldn't think much about this letter,
see that it was big and scary from a big, powerful organization and
just stop because you were scared stuff. Didn't think that you would dig into
this ask other people about it, and like, ask everyone and their uncle.
They underestimated how much you had already been thinking about the law and right
thought that you were just running your mouth. And what they didn't know was
that Snap's production supervisor was on her second day at work at a place that
has lots of lawyers, all lawyers actually, which worked out pretty well,
because that worked out pretty well and giving us our first confirmation of we're not
getting sued. Yeah, they couldn't write anything for you, but they can.
But it was well. It took was one person to read this and
be like, this literally doesn't have legal basis quickly especial terms of that,
especially because we asked, like a brand new law grad who he was so
down to this letter and tell me if it was. I sent this letter
to all the Snappers, not all of them, but anyone, anyone who
would be willing to be there for the cause because I felt so crazy.
So let's read it. Dear Lucy on behalf of Alpha FIE's international executive board,
I am writing to demand that you immediately bolded, cease and desist from
any further conduct or action that involves the use of Alpha Fee's name or trademarks
for any purpose, including, but not limited to U shown social media,
or any public feelings. I thought it was because I wore their merch.
I think it was if it was anything. If it was anything, it
was so not Alpha Fie being the title right, if it was anything.
Yeah, anyway, let's get through this letter. We have been directed to
proceed with whatever action is necessary. The leader of your culture. You definitely
didn't ask a lawyer, so I don't even know who's directed you of anything,
because it definitely wasn't a lawyer. The leader of your cults, including
Renee, has directed us. Are you're gonna say that? I just said
it? Allegedly Renee. Allegedly Renee told us to run the letter, including
initiating legal proceedings to bring an end to the improper, unauthorized, and infringing
use of the fraternity's name and or insignia by individuals who are previously affiliated with
or claimed you have be affiliated with, claimed you weren't actually in it with
the Alpha fe chapter at the University of Maryland. Like, meanwhile, they
used my address at the top of this letter, so like they have my
information because I was a member. You definitely weren't pretending to be in it.
We are hopeful you will reconsider your position seek competent legal counsel familiar with
trademark and counterfil law. That's crazy that they said that because any competent legal
council familiar with trademark and counterfeiting law. I have a weay weekend coming out
tomorrow. Did they listen to the podcast because it's just like they really I
feel like they really sent this letter banking on the fact that you wouldn't talk
to a actual lawyer. Oh yeah, or maybe they just didn't think it
through like that. I don't know, because it makes no sense. You
must realize that this is my favorite line. You must realize that you are
not a member of the Alpha Fi International Fraternity and may not hold yourself out
as a member. May not wear or otherwise display merchandise bearing insignia of the
fraternity to suggest you are a member, nor may you otherwise use the fraternities
insignia in any way or engage in any efforts to recruit unofficial members. It's
a terribly written sentence. But you weren't doing any of those things. Never
did, never pretended to be a member, never pretended. In a final
effort to remedy this issue, short of litigation, short of litigation, Alpha
Fi International Fraternity demands that you immediately immediately cease speaking about holding your c speaking
about and holding yourself as a member of Alpha Pie. Never did. You
were a member, and I was a number, and I disaffiliated, and
then I sang a song cease utilizing the insignia, crust, Greek letters,
and other marks of the fraternity. It's trademarked for your merch. I never
sold merch with Alpha Fie on it or the signia or crest YEP. Didn't
profit off your symbol, Never profited off your symbol one your ugly ass,
dumb ass little symbol. Cease any in all attempts to recruit unofficial members.
Where did that even come from? The snappers, They're like, you cannot
start your own cults, Cease your involvement in operating any unofficial chapter, house
for the former chapter, or any arranging other place, Like it's not that
didn't make sense, but I was thinking it was like my sona Alpha FI
party where I released the launch of Sona and Alphabe. That's I don't think
that they're thinking I like them. So I'm reading this again. I'm because
it's so gaslly that it makes you think, well, what did they think
you were doing? Okay, and number five immediately return a copy of this
letter within seven days, signing the statement below that you agree to full abide
by these conditions. Mind you contract. We're about to have a three day
weekend. The last lines. Alphaie International Fraternity considers the infringement and counterfeilding of
its legally protected trademarks to be a very serious issue, and ignoring our demands
will not this issue go away, Typo. If we do not receive your
signed copy, we plan to proceed with filing a lawsuit naming you as a
defendant. Bluff, But that's the scariest line, naming you as a defendant.
That's Alpha Phi International versus Lucy Taylor. A dream, but not a
dream, nightmare, a nightmare. It's what everyone was hoping for, but
no one would ever wish upon me and theory if it were to go down
and get sent to the Supreme Court, it would go it would be legendary.
So we covered our cover our basis for that right, it wouldn't we
cover our basis through Yeah, it would be dismissed whatever. Anyway, the
last line, I look forward to your full compliance with the above directives.
Please note that this letter is sent without waving any of Alpha Fe's rights or
remedies, all of which are expressly reserved. Okay, Signed the Director of
Health, Wellness and Accountability, C Seed, Alpha Fee executive director and some
other girl who's in charge of marketing and communications. How did you respond?
There were It was a whole week long process of not knowing what to do.
You know, here I am calling for one one and they're telling I
finally get in touch with a trademark lawyer. He gives me advice. He
laughs at the letter. What did he say? Didn't say? They clearly
didn't. Yeah, they clearly didn't have a lawyer. Look at this.
It's so funny because they say, we are hopeful that you seek competent legal
counsel familiar with trademark and counterfeiting law. So that's what I did, and
you did, and they laughed at the letter. Right. Instead, they
clearly didn't talk to a lawyer, right, And so here I am talking
to a lawyer and then he's like this is essentially bullshit, not that wording,
but right, but tells me that I shouldn't ignore it, right,
and that you should have a lawyer. I should have a lawyer. Respond,
and You're like and I'm like, sure for a lawyer, And I'm
like how much? What did you say? It was five hundred dollars an
hour and he estimated that it would take two hours, maybe two and a
half, and that I would have to put down a ten thousand dollars retainer
fee that I would eventually get back. But I don't. That's not ten
thousand, no, no, not ten thousand. So definitely not going to
do that, especially for this letter. So so I was like, fuck,
So, there's not like I'm not getting a lawyer. I was still
trying to reach out to anyone who was anyone to try and get something pro
bonus, like I guess I'm gonna have to have Megan Limb respond right.
No, I was like any like, but I was also putting up this
podcast season and didn't want to give this my full You were in the middle
of this out, yeah, you were, and that was a tactic of
theirs too, I'm sure it was, but yeah, I was. I
was super busy, so I had and I knew it wasn't real deep down,
right, and so I couldn't give it the full like I couldn't.
I couldn't make it my whole life right now. But it was scary.
There were points where I was like, fuck, I'm gonna need to make
like no one's gonna donate to my GoFundMe, like I'm going to go into
debt because of this, Like I feel I felt very alone and your catastrophizer
like that they had me, they rattled you, they rattled, but they
didn't have me that they rattled me. Eventually, nothing was coming. I
was not going to reply at a certain point because none of the connects were
working, and our strategy was going to be don't say anything the text,
don't reply because if they were gonna see me, I didn't think that they
would do it without another warning, right, and also they wouldn't sue you
on this basis, right, like it just you know, like it was
it was still risky, but I was like, you know, we're taking
this chance because I do not have this money, and we also talked about,
like the worst that happens in this instance of this letter, they sue
you. They file a lawsuit, and you have to go to court to
get it dismissed. That's the worst thing that happens. That costs money,
which sucks, But like it was never gonna end in like a long thing
where you got found guilty of something. No, I wouldn't have gotten found
guilty of something. But I was scared that they were going to use money
to silence me, because I eventually I would have given up. If it
came down to, I think, lawyer like ten thousand dollars, I would
have stopped, right, Definitely, you didn't have to because I didn't have
to through because at the first Amendment, well yeah and and yeah, always
that. But even if the connect didn't come through, I mean, I
don't think they would have sued, right, No, I don't. Well,
they had no base, they had no basis. But a judge would
have scolded. This is what my This is what the law person that I
had, he's a lawyer, now passed the bar. Congrats. That's what
he told me, is that the judge will scold the lawyer that brings this
case right, Yeah, I would have because no, wonder they didn't have
a lawyer behind it, because there was. Yeah, it would have been.
It's embarrassing, it has a typo in it, and it has no
legal like I could have written a letter. I could have easily quickly.
Anyone can. Anyone can. So yeah, I was originally not going to
say anything, but then I spoke with someone who was like, no,
you need to reply. And I got into that like catastrophizing mindset, I
guess you could say, which maybe I needed to be because this was my
money on the line. I need to protect myself. Yeah, right.
And I reached out to a film director who I had been in brief contact
with before this, just through the Greek life world, and we had been
in brief contact but never met or had a conversation. But this He creates
a lot of movies about frat hazing, and so he knows about the inner
workings, and he knows how these places tick and silence people, and is
a very successful director, has a lot of connect So I thought, you
know what, if I'm going to shoot my shot, I'm going to shoot
my shot. You are killing me right now? Why? Good part?
I'm gonna shoo my shop. But I messaged him and he and he referred.
He said, I'm going to connect you with this guy. And I
knew the guy's name already in the back of my mind. I've heard I
had heard this name. I had heard this name before in the research.
And he's a very talented individual. We're not going to because very serious right
right now, right, and we don't. Yeah, but he is an
admirable an admirable person. I think this lawyer is somebody who has represented and
been involved with a lot of cases. Is that involved ties. He's he
knows this the inner workings, and he knows. He just he's just seen
this go down. That's how they silence people with lawsuits or they try to
write people. And he saw that they were trying to do this to you
with no just independent podcaster who is advocating, and it's setting a precedent.
So he represented me probono, not even me, He represented the snappers pro
bonoy, snapped Lucy got one of the top lawyers for this kind of not
this kind of suit. I don't want to say too much because I don't
want to identify him, but he's like one of the top lawyers for a
specific field of law very relevant to Greek life, that is now going to
represent that was representing you pro bono, which would have been saved My life
would have been thousands of dollars for Yeah. Yeah, and he just very
matter of factly told them the truth. He wrote one of the best letters
that I still want to frame, an avid, strongly worded letter writer.
You were inspired, I was inspired. I was beautifully so he artfully,
artfully. Ugh, once I have an office, I'm definitely going to print
it out. Both of them, Yeah, both of them, for sure.
This is the paragraph of the lawyer's letter and response that I think that
everybody should hear with all due respect. This is him talking to the alpha
fe season to size people with all due respect. Your demand is misguided and
legally unsupported. Any trademark protection that your fraternity has with respect to the use
of the World's Alpha fee is likely in the context of establishing and operating a
fraternity entity on the college campus. By no means does this limited property write
entitle you to muzzle pece engaged in journalism who speak factually about the organization,
whether those statements concern their prior membership and experiences therein its activities, its relation
to other Greek organizations, or otherwise. These are rights protected by the First
Amendment of the US Constitution, often referred to as freedom of speech. Worth
noting in this regard is that the phrase cease and assist has often been used
by universities and colleges across the country to de recognize your fraternity chapters for acts
of hazing, misuse of alcohol, violations of campus code of conduct, and
similar misconduct, which is perhaps one reason there is a public interest in speech
and programming today and for decades in and on every media platform referencing Alpha FE
and other Greek organizations. So I acknowledge you in your fraternity's substantial familiarity with
the phrase, but it has no lawful applicability to my client or her constitutionally
protected rights. And yeah, that was the end of that. That's all
it took. And you know, part of me didn't want to speak about
it because it still is scary. It's just scary business when some organization comes
at you like that. But with so much time passing and them not suing
me, I have I feel an obligation to tell the snappers just because they
put something on a PVF. Yes, and tell you to sign it doesn't
make it true. Yes, you know. Cease and desists are not official
legal documents. They are not lawsuits. They are a letter that someone writes
to you telling you to stop before they sue you. And they are often
abused by powerful people to scare people into thinking that they are going to be
sued when they actually have no basis for a lawsuit and it's just a letter
of empty words, and it's actually they could actually get in trouble, so
to say, for no, one's probably gonna come and get them in trouble.
But it's oh anti slat. Oh yeah, they can't law they can't
do Yeah, there are That's another thing, the slap laws that he references
in the thing, which prevent organizations like Alpha Fee from burying creators or journalists
or public speakers individuals are talking about or trying to expose or shine light on
negative parts of an organization. There are laws that protect those whistleblowers from being
buried in legal fees and stuff exactly for purposes like this exactly. And so
I felt with this privilege of having this guy pro bono, like since I
had that confirmation from virtually the top of there's no one better who could have
represented me in this. That's something that everyone deserves to know. Don't let
don't let them scare you. People scare you, and don't let them scare
you. You definitely got lucky as far as I got lucky representation, But
I don't think you necessarily needed it. I think it could have gone away
without it. But yeah, we wouldn't be talking about it right now.
We wouldn't have be. But don't take a season of this face value right
look into it. But it's if you're a podcast host and they're suing you
for trademark violations and this is the first time they're contacting me after three seasons,
and like I emailed y'all about this before it is affiliated, it was
pretty easy. You had my address, we could have All Alpha Fy had
to do was apologize privately, and I would have never talked about it publicly.
Again, It's true though, if there if there was some sense of
remorse or apology, maybe snapped would have never happened. But it's the normalization
of it all. And I completely fully believe that if you're you would have
been treated by respect treated with respect by the sorority that snapped would have never
happened, but unfortunately that was the case. Not don't, don't check out
yet. We got two more questions or one more. Do you have any
genuinely good memories of your sorority? Yeah, but none that are like wow,
that was so good, Like I made. I really enjoyed two friends
that I was started to make of four friends. I really saw a lot
of kindness in the individuals that I met. Are you still friends with anybody
from your sorority? No? Yeah, so, I but you know,
I don't. I don't think we were really we didn't meet in an environment
where friendship. Friendship can be Yeah, that's it doesn't flourish. It doesn't
flourish. It can be created, but it's yeah, it's it's risky business.
Or any regrets, No, not one. I mean sometimes I think
about, like I wish the audio quality in season one was better or you
know, but that's just the name of the game. Yeah, it's just
trial and error and also growing and in my production skills, which I think
is very evident. It is wildly evident. I think Season three was a
very like professionally put together piece season one was a passion project. But that's
a wrap. I think, Uh, that's all I've got. I thank
you for being with me through it all. Of course, thank you for
letting me, letting my dream come through, and letting me host an episode.
I'm proud of you. Me too. I can't believe we made it
this far, and that doesn't feel real. It doesn't feel real. I
can't believe it's over, doesn't feel over. I don't think it's over over.
I don't think it's over over either. Snapped. If you're craving more
snapped content, we've got a bunch on Patreon. Patreon is where I post
screenshots, full documents like primary sources type shit, a Q and A that
was recorded in twenty twenty after season one, that answers why I didn't include
the name of the sorority in the first season, if I've gotten backlash from
UMD, why I joined such a racist institution in the first place, and
if any of my former sisters have reached out since the podcast. You'll also
find a review of Bama Rush. Behind the scenes content like a video of
me and my assistant before I had the lawyer for the season desist trying to
fit, you're out? What's say at Alpha fe And we have so many
full interviews from this season, including treasurer Mikayla So, I have a biology
and public health major. I have nothing to do with finance. I got
another bag of sex toys and it said this is for the biggest slut in
the sorority. James, the social chair, don't get me started on like
the quote unquote progressive white girls and the sororities. I would be like,
oh my god, you guys are gay. You're so cute. Advisor Sophia,
My entire month of August was taken up by recruitment for the last five
years. They slept on the couch in the sorority house to make sure that
I was there when I was needed. Advisor Tori, I'm definitely been pinpointed
by my alumni as someone who's willing to make noise to make change. Lizzie,
I was at this away weekend and I was drugged. She's like,
if they get shut down, where are we gonna do? Tail? It's
anonymous frat brot Hyler, What did that jboard meeting look like? That was
about the hazing and alcoholic It's like it's like a real court case, right,
so you have what do you mean it's real, like it's like not
okay yet. And my full video interview with Julia which was recorded in a
professional podcast studio and even in this chill sorority, it was very bad image
and I want to share with you the classy meter uh for all this content
and more. Become a ged or a dismantler on patreon dot com, slash
snapped that's p A t r e o n dot com slash s n a
p p e d snapped