WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.720 --> 00:00:04.519 If you're looking for more horror outside of the mainstream, look no further than 2 00:00:04.599 --> 00:00:11.160 Unsung Horrors, a podcast about underseen horror movies. I'm Lance and I'm Erica. 3 00:00:11.480 --> 00:00:15.119 Every other week we'll cover a horror movie with fewer than one thousand views 4 00:00:15.119 --> 00:00:19.280 on Letterboxed. We'll even give you double feature recommendations to pair with the movies 5 00:00:19.359 --> 00:00:24.199 we discuss. From gothic to shot on video, from Slashers to comedies, 6 00:00:24.280 --> 00:00:28.679 from Giallo to jay horror, We'll cover all the subgenres. So join us 7 00:00:28.760 --> 00:00:33.079 as we unearth these hidden gems of horror. Follow us on Instagram, Twitter, 8 00:00:33.159 --> 00:00:37.799 and Facebook. All at Unsung Horrors, available wherever you listen to podcasts, 9 00:00:38.479 --> 00:00:54.119 and part of the Someone's Favorite Productions podcast network. Hello there, and 10 00:00:54.159 --> 00:00:57.920 welcome back to the Disconnected. I'm here with Joe Lynch, the director of 11 00:00:58.560 --> 00:01:00.840 Suitable Flesh. That blu ray, I mean, I mean, wait, 12 00:01:00.920 --> 00:01:06.480 hold on, no, wait hey, look a physical copy a Suitable Flesh 13 00:01:06.519 --> 00:01:08.239 like wait, we great, if I just could just grab it right now. 14 00:01:08.439 --> 00:01:12.040 I went the wrong way too. Oh that'd be so amazing. Oh, 15 00:01:12.079 --> 00:01:15.959 thank you so much for having me on. Ryan. Genuinely, this 16 00:01:15.040 --> 00:01:19.560 is ridiculous because I've appreciated your work for a long time, but something like 17 00:01:19.599 --> 00:01:23.040 this, it's it's monumental, especially for fans that have been you know, 18 00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:26.840 around horror for a lot of their life. This is like a true love 19 00:01:26.920 --> 00:01:32.079 letter to Stuart Gordon through and through. I'm grateful that you would do something 20 00:01:32.120 --> 00:01:34.879 like this, especially for a lot of people that Stuart Gordon was important to 21 00:01:34.599 --> 00:01:38.879 super Flesh. I mean, first off, it's where did it come from? 22 00:01:38.920 --> 00:01:42.239 For you? Like, this is a big deal. Blieve me as 23 00:01:42.359 --> 00:01:47.159 a huge disciple of Stuart Gordon, even as far back as say like nineteen 24 00:01:47.200 --> 00:01:51.799 eighty five when I first saw Reanimator, when I thought, because like I 25 00:01:51.840 --> 00:01:55.439 remember, I'll never forget it, Like there was a time I'm gonna take 26 00:01:55.439 --> 00:01:59.239 you way back, Ryan, way back to the eighties when they had radio 27 00:01:59.319 --> 00:02:01.120 ads for movie and it would always, you know, it would be this 28 00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:08.360 announcer that's like the most unbelievable spectacle of sci fi horror ever ever committed to 29 00:02:08.439 --> 00:02:13.240 film, Enemy Mind rated R coming to you into a theater near you. 30 00:02:13.360 --> 00:02:15.919 Maybe not Enemy Mind, but you know it's a different story from a different 31 00:02:15.960 --> 00:02:22.199 day. But Reanimator had somewhat similar of you know, the very bombastic narrator 32 00:02:22.240 --> 00:02:23.639 talking about the movie. But at the end, you know, it was 33 00:02:23.680 --> 00:02:30.560 like experience the ultimate, you know, in medical Terror. HP Lovecraft's Reanimator 34 00:02:30.199 --> 00:02:34.639 and I like, it will scare you two pieces. I was like, 35 00:02:34.680 --> 00:02:37.280 and then you know this film is not rated. I was like, oh, 36 00:02:37.319 --> 00:02:43.240 I'm in Like I was only like a burgeoning splatterpunk if you will at 37 00:02:43.280 --> 00:02:50.479 the time, but I thought that HP Lovecraft directed re Animator because the only 38 00:02:50.520 --> 00:02:53.759 other person I had ever heard had their name on top of a movie was 39 00:02:54.360 --> 00:02:59.680 John Carpenter, And I was like, well, who is this HP Lovecraft 40 00:02:59.759 --> 00:03:04.360 dude? Doing my what little non internet based research that I could at the 41 00:03:04.400 --> 00:03:06.840 time, I was like, oh no, he's the writer, but who's 42 00:03:06.840 --> 00:03:09.479 the guy who directed it? Because that movie part of my French But fuck 43 00:03:09.560 --> 00:03:14.120 me up, and I like, you know, I then I got very 44 00:03:14.199 --> 00:03:20.360 much into Lovecraft. But then I was then I became a huge like fan 45 00:03:20.639 --> 00:03:24.599 of Stuart Gordon, not just because then he did Dolls and he did From 46 00:03:24.599 --> 00:03:30.039 Beyond, but he also I'll never forget being in the theater and watching Honey 47 00:03:30.120 --> 00:03:34.960 I Shrunk the Kids and going why is Stuart Gordon's name on Honey? I 48 00:03:34.960 --> 00:03:39.840 shrunk the kids? This guy can do everything, and seeing how he traversed 49 00:03:39.840 --> 00:03:46.199 through genres so deftly, you know, between his horror output but being able 50 00:03:46.240 --> 00:03:51.599 to do you know, you know, robot jocks or space truckers, or 51 00:03:51.639 --> 00:03:53.479 the man with the ice cream suit, or the King of the Ants that 52 00:03:53.560 --> 00:03:58.360 no one talks about, who everyone should talk about that movie funny. Have 53 00:03:58.360 --> 00:04:00.319 you ever seen King of the Ants? Yeah, okay, all right, 54 00:04:00.520 --> 00:04:02.800 just a couple of years ago, all of the Stuart Gordon stuff as much 55 00:04:02.800 --> 00:04:05.039 as I could do. You want me to blow your mind right now, 56 00:04:05.199 --> 00:04:08.639 let's do. It's a bit of there's a bit of a spoiler for anybody 57 00:04:08.639 --> 00:04:14.719 who hasn't seen Suitable Flesh. But the main actor in King of the Ants, 58 00:04:14.879 --> 00:04:19.160 who plays the lead, Chris McKenna, Right, Chris McKenna is the 59 00:04:19.199 --> 00:04:26.040 guy that's on the couch with Heather in the hypnotism scene, playing the same 60 00:04:26.199 --> 00:04:30.199 character from King of the Ants. Oh shit, he's Crowley from King of 61 00:04:30.240 --> 00:04:35.120 the Ants. Years later going through his own like more more trauma, so 62 00:04:35.199 --> 00:04:40.399 to speak. I mean, there were all of these little things that you 63 00:04:40.439 --> 00:04:43.879 know, you don't have to be a Stuart Gordon fan or reanimator fan to 64 00:04:44.040 --> 00:04:47.839 hopefully enjoy Suitable flesh. But those in the inner circle that no Stuart's movies 65 00:04:47.879 --> 00:04:51.560 well enough, or know those you know those films well enough, will hopefully 66 00:04:51.839 --> 00:04:55.839 be able to pick up on those little easter eggs. And you know the 67 00:04:55.879 --> 00:05:00.199 fact that Graham Skipper, who was doctor Herbert West in the re Animator musical 68 00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:05.040 and had worked with Stuart before, and Greg McDougall, who did the effects 69 00:05:05.439 --> 00:05:10.480 for Evermore and for re Animator, did the effects on this, the fact 70 00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:15.600 that Miskatonic University from re Animator is in suitable flesh. I mean, these 71 00:05:15.639 --> 00:05:20.639 are the sort of secret handshake things that like I would want when I was 72 00:05:20.680 --> 00:05:25.560 watching Joe Dante movies back in the day and going like I know that robot 73 00:05:25.600 --> 00:05:30.759 from something, or like I know that that line or that those those secret 74 00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:34.759 handshakes mean so much to horror, especially horror fans. I don't feel like 75 00:05:34.800 --> 00:05:39.759 you can do it as much in other genres, but in horror you can 76 00:05:40.120 --> 00:05:44.920 still get away with having your entire cast of characters being named directors from back 77 00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:47.319 in the day like they did in Sleepwalkers, you know, or or multiple 78 00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:51.600 movies. But these are sort of things that we as a culture and as 79 00:05:51.639 --> 00:05:57.959 a family. It's the same as being in the line waiting for Robert England 80 00:05:58.079 --> 00:06:01.160 at a convention and you're in this three hour line and you see someone who's 81 00:06:01.160 --> 00:06:03.879 got a Necromantic shirt and you're like, hey, I like you know, 82 00:06:04.040 --> 00:06:06.959 I like Necromantic. Hey, I like Necromantic as well? Do you receive 83 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:11.279 part two? And then you start going on a conversation with them. Next 84 00:06:11.279 --> 00:06:14.519 thing you know, you're best friends and you're exchanging numbers, even if you're 85 00:06:14.759 --> 00:06:18.800 you know, three three towns away. So that's that's the equivalent of why 86 00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:25.120 I wanted to like infuse a lot of those little things into suitable flesh, 87 00:06:25.160 --> 00:06:30.959 because I know if I'm as big a nerd about Stuart Gordon movies, I 88 00:06:30.040 --> 00:06:33.279 know other people are going to be as well. And you can still show 89 00:06:33.279 --> 00:06:36.480 your mom where you can show your date who's never seen re Animator before, 90 00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:40.680 and while you're laughing, they'll go like what are you laughing at. It's 91 00:06:40.680 --> 00:06:44.639 like, oh, that's the son of the security guard from Reanimator and he's 92 00:06:44.680 --> 00:06:46.560 in this one now, and you go like, well wait Reanimator, Oh 93 00:06:46.600 --> 00:06:50.519 hold on, I'll show you that next. We need those things to kind 94 00:06:50.519 --> 00:06:56.120 of create an algorithm for our significant other or our friends to be able to 95 00:06:56.160 --> 00:07:00.800 share the wealth of horror. So that's that's my long winded answer to whatever 96 00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:01.959 question you had. I don't even think you had a question. I'm just 97 00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:06.800 excited to be here either way. Like it was the perfect just lead into 98 00:07:06.959 --> 00:07:12.040 what happened, because I swear I think Miskatonic was on the screen not even 99 00:07:12.120 --> 00:07:15.040 thirty seconds into the film and I bust out laughing at and my wife was 100 00:07:15.079 --> 00:07:18.839 like, what's what's going on? It just started it And it's that it's 101 00:07:18.839 --> 00:07:24.160 that connection that goes it's not even thirty seconds and this this is special already. 102 00:07:24.639 --> 00:07:29.000 I got you. I mean, like even when the zipper opens in 103 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:32.680 the first shot and you see Barbara Crampton and Graham Skipper in the same shot 104 00:07:32.759 --> 00:07:38.079 looking into the camera, like for some people there are there's going to be 105 00:07:38.120 --> 00:07:41.720 some audience members who know Stuart's work, who know Barber's work, and you 106 00:07:41.720 --> 00:07:46.199 know Graham's work, who are going to be like this is like a supergroup 107 00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:51.360 getting together and starting to play. Because like obviously where I'm very aware of 108 00:07:53.279 --> 00:07:57.120 both of their bodies of work in a Stuart Gordon, you know, and 109 00:07:57.160 --> 00:08:01.240 Dennis Paoli scripted film, I'm not you know, this is not for nothing. 110 00:08:01.279 --> 00:08:03.720 I'm very aware of that. But you know, you want to make 111 00:08:03.759 --> 00:08:07.480 sure that you feel like you're in good hands, especially when it comes to 112 00:08:07.480 --> 00:08:09.920 horror, and especially when it comes to and I hate using this word, 113 00:08:11.480 --> 00:08:18.879 but when it comes to intellectual property or IP right like Lovecraft and even like 114 00:08:18.199 --> 00:08:24.000 you know, the Miskatonic movies that Stuart and Brian and Dennis worked on, 115 00:08:24.040 --> 00:08:26.439 like From Beyond and Reanimator. When you're working in that world, when you 116 00:08:26.519 --> 00:08:31.160 set yourself up to be in that world, you kind of have to deliver 117 00:08:31.279 --> 00:08:33.000 something. I know some critics that were like, oh, it wasn't Stuart 118 00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:37.240 Gordony enough, it wasn't crazy enough. Well, you know, like to 119 00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:41.799 each their own, but I know in my heart that I've paid respect enough 120 00:08:41.879 --> 00:08:43.720 to Stuart Beyond. I don't know if you got all the way to the 121 00:08:43.759 --> 00:08:48.120 end of the movie, but we have like that big dedicated to Stuart Gordon 122 00:08:48.200 --> 00:08:50.919 moment and they shot in Cthulu scope. You know, these are things that 123 00:08:52.159 --> 00:08:54.960 like, as a fan myself, I would appreciate and I know other people 124 00:08:54.960 --> 00:09:01.360 would too. Well we did. This was such just a fun experience to 125 00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:03.440 watch something like this, And really there's a couple of things. I kind 126 00:09:03.440 --> 00:09:07.759 of want to just see what you're feeling, because this is so different than 127 00:09:07.759 --> 00:09:11.200 a lot of what we're getting nowadays. I mean, we're not getting a 128 00:09:11.240 --> 00:09:15.039 lot of something that feels like the early nineties like this. We're not getting 129 00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:18.960 the risky type films. Unfortunately. A lot of the films that we get, 130 00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:22.080 especially in the horror genre, are neutered or lately it's from international scenes 131 00:09:22.279 --> 00:09:26.919 and those are killing it. But this feels like a fresh new step. 132 00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:31.480 And it's funny because it feels like such a nostalgic new step in a way. 133 00:09:31.600 --> 00:09:35.879 I think like when it comes to movies like this, like what's interesting 134 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:43.399 about some of the influences of Suitable Flesh, You know, everything from if 135 00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:48.519 you look at the nineties, you know things like The Last Seduction or Lost 136 00:09:48.559 --> 00:09:52.039 Highway, and if you go back into the eighties or Basic Instinct, but 137 00:09:52.039 --> 00:09:56.559 then you go back into the eighties with Body Double and Dressed to Kill and 138 00:09:56.600 --> 00:10:03.320 Body Heat, these are all films that were all so like throwbacks to film 139 00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:07.879 noir from the forties, where you would have your hapless protagonist that gets thrown 140 00:10:07.919 --> 00:10:11.799 into a situation beyond their control, and then you have the femme fatale, 141 00:10:11.840 --> 00:10:16.679 and you know, in this case we had the home fatale, the doting 142 00:10:16.679 --> 00:10:20.120 wife at home that ends up becoming part like part of the story. Like 143 00:10:20.279 --> 00:10:24.799 all of these tropes were things that like we're being cultivated way back with like 144 00:10:24.919 --> 00:10:31.519 Joseph Lewis and you know, and even uh, oh god, now it's 145 00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:35.360 going to kill me, the director Sam Fuller, like when they were making 146 00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:39.600 films and forties films and they were making it in this film noir world that 147 00:10:39.679 --> 00:10:43.600 was derived from uh, you know, doctor Caligary and German expressionism. It 148 00:10:43.720 --> 00:10:48.559 all feeds into each other. And you know, all the movies that like 149 00:10:48.600 --> 00:10:50.840 I was looking at, I'm going, god, why don't they make these 150 00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:54.240 movies anymore? Why don't they make erotic thrillers? Why don't they make you 151 00:10:54.240 --> 00:10:58.200 know, body heartor the way like this that we haven't seen in a while. 152 00:10:58.679 --> 00:11:03.039 And you know, and honestly a lot of this is purely from coming 153 00:11:03.039 --> 00:11:05.159 from a movie goer standpoint, going, this is what I want to see. 154 00:11:05.240 --> 00:11:09.480 You know, I haven't seen a good sex scene or I haven't seen 155 00:11:09.519 --> 00:11:13.320 good eroticism or just horny cinema in modern movies in a while. Now that 156 00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:16.720 said, then you know, supable flesh comes out and then poor things and 157 00:11:16.799 --> 00:11:20.720 salt burn, and it's like we're you know, I feel like there is 158 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:28.840 a the pendulum has now been swinging the other way when we've been very conservative, 159 00:11:28.039 --> 00:11:33.120 whether it was through our culture in general politics. You know. Obviously 160 00:11:33.159 --> 00:11:37.720 the Me too movement, you know, changed the game up for many many 161 00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:41.399 good reasons. But I think it also, you know, and I'm only 162 00:11:41.480 --> 00:11:46.600 speaking for myself, but when the Me Too movement happened, which needed to 163 00:11:46.600 --> 00:11:50.639 happen, and I'm so glad it did for so many reasons, it did 164 00:11:50.919 --> 00:11:56.840 make filmmakers, both male and female, a little skidtish to present sexuality in 165 00:11:56.879 --> 00:12:01.960 films because it meant that they had to shoot that stuff and they had to 166 00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:09.879 present that to the actors. And there is there's a very defined atmosphere on 167 00:12:09.960 --> 00:12:13.840 a set when you're shooting a sex scene. It's it's a little uncomfortable, 168 00:12:13.960 --> 00:12:20.679 like it's, you know, like you're trying to capture passion and spontaneity in 169 00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:28.960 the most un sexual and most like, uh like almost voyeuristic way possible. 170 00:12:28.200 --> 00:12:31.639 You have all these people standing. It's almost like that scene in Boogie Nights 171 00:12:31.639 --> 00:12:35.320 when Nina Hartley is having sex in the parking lot. That's what it's like 172 00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:39.600 making a sex scene. That's exactly what it's like making a sex scene. 173 00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:43.240 And I have been both on the directing side of that and the crew side 174 00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:46.799 of that. I've also been in sex scenes before, and it is incredibly 175 00:12:46.919 --> 00:12:52.120 uncomfortable. But if you can create an environment that allows everyone to feel like 176 00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:56.879 they are being respected and there's you know, total consent and everyone is on 177 00:12:56.919 --> 00:13:01.279 the same page, then you can hopefully create that chemistry. And for the 178 00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:05.519 last couple of years until maybe very recently, I think filmmakers have just been 179 00:13:05.639 --> 00:13:09.279 a little scared of it. Also, and this is really insider baseball, 180 00:13:09.639 --> 00:13:16.720 but you know, when you get an intimacy coordinator involved, which is kind 181 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:18.919 of a new job that has come up through the annals of the last couple 182 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:24.240 of years, and making sure that people are being treated fairly and properly and 183 00:13:24.240 --> 00:13:28.480 consensually. I've been on sets where, you know, it's kind of taken 184 00:13:28.519 --> 00:13:31.240 the air out of the room a little bit because someone is there, like 185 00:13:31.480 --> 00:13:35.000 looking at every single movement and going like could that you know, should that 186 00:13:35.039 --> 00:13:37.480 be like that? Or is that person cool with that? It kind of 187 00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:41.000 takes the sexiness out of the room and again, you know, like it 188 00:13:41.039 --> 00:13:43.519 needs to be there. Let me let me just posit that as well, 189 00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:48.639 so I don't get in trouble. But it's true. But that's where, 190 00:13:48.639 --> 00:13:52.559 you know, that's a cost thing, that's having another crew member on set, 191 00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:54.200 and when you're doing something that's a little on the lower budget side, 192 00:13:56.200 --> 00:13:58.759 you know, can you afford to have that person on set every day when 193 00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:05.480 you have a situation like this. So there's so many insider baseball reasons why 194 00:14:05.240 --> 00:14:09.080 eroticism and sexuality has not been you know, you know, I guess you 195 00:14:09.080 --> 00:14:13.879 know better displayed in film lately, and that was something that you know, 196 00:14:13.960 --> 00:14:18.840 I feel like superle Flesh at least reminded people that you can be horny in 197 00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:22.840 genre films and with you know, with without complete consequence, without it just 198 00:14:22.840 --> 00:14:24.639 being like, Okay, here's the slasher coming in and stabbing in with a 199 00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:28.320 machete or something like that. That there's there's much more subtle consequences involved. 200 00:14:28.360 --> 00:14:33.960 But I'm glad we were part of that. And having a newly minted twenty 201 00:14:33.960 --> 00:14:35.759 one year old, you know, making his way to the world with Heather 202 00:14:35.799 --> 00:14:39.919 Graham in the same bed, that's got to be an interesting, uncomfortable scene 203 00:14:39.919 --> 00:14:46.159 already that was very very interesting. Our first day of shooting was the U 204 00:14:46.919 --> 00:14:50.919 as I like to call it, the Texas Switch sex scene between Heather, 205 00:14:52.600 --> 00:14:58.120 Jonathan and Judah. Originally, our very first scene was the dinner scene when 206 00:14:58.159 --> 00:15:01.240 he brings out the brain zeno and everything. That was our very first scene. 207 00:15:01.360 --> 00:15:03.639 And you know, and I can be the first person to tell you 208 00:15:03.720 --> 00:15:07.080 that, like everybody was, you know, his first ay jitters, and 209 00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:09.320 everybody was a little bit nervous, and I was trying to make it as 210 00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:13.559 you know, easy as possible so that we can get upstairs and you know, 211 00:15:13.639 --> 00:15:16.840 get into the meat and potatoes, so to speak. So you know, 212 00:15:16.919 --> 00:15:20.279 like I, we shot that first scene and people were kind of feeling 213 00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:24.159 each other out. Heather and Jonathan knew each other for years, but they 214 00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:26.639 had never worked together before. We had done rehearsals and we had done you 215 00:15:26.679 --> 00:15:30.960 know, kind of chemistry reads and all that crap, you know, so 216 00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:33.360 they were they were, you know, they were into it. But the 217 00:15:33.519 --> 00:15:37.000 this is again day one. Judah had never been in a sex scene before 218 00:15:37.039 --> 00:15:41.879 ever, and here it is. I had to be the this the the 219 00:15:41.879 --> 00:15:46.039 the douchebag auteur. That's like, and there's going to be this shot where 220 00:15:46.360 --> 00:15:50.000 Jonathan goes down on you know, on on Heather, and then in the 221 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:54.240 same shot Judah comes up. And not only are we representing all sex in 222 00:15:54.279 --> 00:15:56.960 a positive way by having a man go down on a woman, which we 223 00:15:56.000 --> 00:16:00.279 haven't seen a lot, we're also getting two characters in one shot. How 224 00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:03.519 clever of me. Well, then you get to shooting it, and you're 225 00:16:03.559 --> 00:16:10.279 like, now I have these three absolutely gorgeous people in various stages of undress, 226 00:16:10.679 --> 00:16:12.960 all on this bed, and it's just me and the camera person. 227 00:16:14.039 --> 00:16:17.200 The sound person is off to the corner. They've already miked everybody up so 228 00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:21.200 that there's minimal people in the room so that there's as many comfortable there's as 229 00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:26.919 much comfortability on set as possible. But like, poor Judah, and this 230 00:16:26.960 --> 00:16:30.799 is a testament to how amazing and mature that kid is. He had not 231 00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:34.759 turned twenty yet. He turned twenty four days later. I think personally he 232 00:16:34.840 --> 00:16:41.399 turned twenty one that night. But he you know, he was as nervous 233 00:16:41.399 --> 00:16:44.799 as anybody else. I mean, Jonathan and Heather had been in a few 234 00:16:44.840 --> 00:16:48.799 sex scenes before, Judah hadn't, and they were so supportive of him. 235 00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:52.519 You were so nice, and you know, everybody felt like, well, 236 00:16:52.360 --> 00:16:56.879 we're diving into this feet first, you know, or no, head first, 237 00:16:56.120 --> 00:17:02.000 or genitals first, if you will. And but but everybody did it 238 00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:06.319 where it was completely respectful and everybody was having as good a time as you 239 00:17:06.319 --> 00:17:08.599 possibly could in that situation. And you know, it's one of my favorite 240 00:17:08.599 --> 00:17:14.160 scenes in the movie because it really does set where Elizabeth Derby as a character 241 00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:17.839 is in her life what she desires, and it's done in a way that's 242 00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:21.519 a little bit more stylistic, that feels a little more like, you know, 243 00:17:21.559 --> 00:17:23.200 like like an erotic thriller for almost from like the eighties or whatever. 244 00:17:25.039 --> 00:17:27.480 And that that was the whole point. Plus I got a positive representation of 245 00:17:27.559 --> 00:17:30.680 ASMR in a scene because everybody's using that now is like, oh, I 246 00:17:30.680 --> 00:17:33.799 got to turn the rain machine on, or I got to put the you 247 00:17:33.799 --> 00:17:37.599 know, you got to put something sexy on in the background. It's it's 248 00:17:37.640 --> 00:17:41.480 a YouTube video of waves crashing like that to me is like, that's indicative 249 00:17:41.519 --> 00:17:45.200 of the modern sex scene in cinema. Yikes. I mean, that's a 250 00:17:45.319 --> 00:17:51.519 that's a really good tradition or transition into something that I've just always noticed through 251 00:17:51.559 --> 00:17:55.039 what you've worked on is a lot of the people that you you've been fortunate 252 00:17:55.119 --> 00:17:57.440 enough to have in your films. Like obviously you've got these massive people like 253 00:17:57.759 --> 00:18:03.440 Heather Graham and some Hayk obviously that are already stars. But then you're getting 254 00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:06.839 people that are early, like to have to have Judah or to have Stephen 255 00:18:06.920 --> 00:18:10.319 Yun and then have I mean, Stephen just won multiple awards in the last 256 00:18:10.359 --> 00:18:14.079 month for an incredible piece of work that he did. And I don't want 257 00:18:14.119 --> 00:18:15.480 to, I don't want to selling an asshole, but I look like a 258 00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:19.319 fucking genius, I swear to. That's what I'm getting at. Like how 259 00:18:19.720 --> 00:18:23.079 I don't know if it's just luck, but like the there are certain people 260 00:18:23.119 --> 00:18:27.359 that when others work with them, they seem to just have this this footpath 261 00:18:27.400 --> 00:18:33.079 in front of them that they're just like yearning for greatness and you've already guided 262 00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:36.519 them towards that. And it's not just you. There's probably five or eight 263 00:18:36.519 --> 00:18:38.400 people that it's just it seems like it's magnetic for that sort of thing. 264 00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:45.440 Like I think, honestly, I believe it a lot of it is fucking 265 00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:48.200 luck, to be honest with you, Like, but I think a lot 266 00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:53.440 of it too, is you know, I came from uh like I don't 267 00:18:53.480 --> 00:18:57.200 want to see an acting background. But like my first love before I knew 268 00:18:57.240 --> 00:19:00.599 I wanted to be a director, was an actor. Either wanted to be 269 00:19:00.680 --> 00:19:03.640 an actor or wanted to be a makeup effects artist. So I wanted to 270 00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:07.240 be Tom Savini essentially. It wasn't until later on that I went like, 271 00:19:07.319 --> 00:19:10.920 oh, a director gets to do all of this stuff. But I still 272 00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:15.279 studied acting and drama, you know, in school, and I've acted a 273 00:19:15.319 --> 00:19:18.839 bunch, you know, in other people's stuff, and I think that there's 274 00:19:18.920 --> 00:19:23.160 there is a communication level, and there's a certain vernacular and even just like 275 00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:29.440 an energy that you convey that I think directors like like Rob Reiner or Sidney 276 00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:36.599 Pollock, they they I think they they make other actors feel comfortable that they 277 00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:40.279 are looking out for their best interests. They're not just worried about the shot 278 00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:44.519 or the gag. And you know, anytime that I've ever approached any actor 279 00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:48.880 in anything that I've done, I always try to And I think this is 280 00:19:48.920 --> 00:19:52.920 just inherent because like I've been on the other side of the camera, is 281 00:19:52.599 --> 00:20:00.359 you know, like I'm very very much concerned and aware of character drama through 282 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:06.720 character, and there are certain words you can say, there's certain skill sets 283 00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:11.160 that you have, There's certain ways that you can present notes or direction to 284 00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:15.319 actors so that they don't feel if you just say do that but better, 285 00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:21.880 or that but faster or slower. I've been on that side where I'm like, 286 00:20:22.200 --> 00:20:25.240 that doesn't help me, dude. You know, but if if the 287 00:20:25.279 --> 00:20:32.599 actors feel like they're being approached not because of their Q score or their star 288 00:20:32.720 --> 00:20:37.759 meter or their face, and you know their amount the amount of followers they 289 00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:44.920 have, but you're truly approaching them from a from a skill and a craft 290 00:20:44.920 --> 00:20:48.319 and a talent sensibility. Anytime that I've ever had an audition with an actor, 291 00:20:48.519 --> 00:20:53.440 you know, from Henry Rollins in Wrong Term two, to Peter Dinklage 292 00:20:53.640 --> 00:21:00.960 in Knights of Bad Asstam Samahayak in Everly, Anthony Mackie in Point Blank, 293 00:21:02.279 --> 00:21:07.960 especially Steven and Samara in Mayhem, and then with like Heather and Judah and 294 00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:11.640 you know, even Barbara and Jonathan and Bruce in this movie. You know, 295 00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:15.079 anytime that we were like I was there to approach them to talk about 296 00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:19.799 the movie, it always came from a character standpoint and anytime that I'm on 297 00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:25.880 set, I that's that's my family, and I'm very protective of that family, 298 00:21:26.359 --> 00:21:29.960 and I want to make sure that, like obviously, that we are 299 00:21:30.119 --> 00:21:33.480 being responsible to the budget and the time and make sure that we make our 300 00:21:33.559 --> 00:21:38.599 day and what have you. But I'm not moving on until both myself and 301 00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:42.440 my scene partner because I never call them like my actors. I call them 302 00:21:42.440 --> 00:21:45.640 my scene partner because I'm in it with them as well, Like we are 303 00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:51.319 doing this dance together. Just because I'm behind the camera doesn't mean I'm not 304 00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:53.799 in the scene in one form or another. I am as representative of this 305 00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:56.359 as they are. And if they're going to go off the deep end, 306 00:21:56.359 --> 00:21:59.759 if they're going to be on the hot seat, I want them to feel 307 00:21:59.799 --> 00:22:03.480 like I'm there too, you know. And that's something that I feel like, 308 00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:07.759 at least when they're considering the movie, you're doing the movie, they 309 00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:11.519 at least know that I got their back, that I'm not just going like, 310 00:22:11.559 --> 00:22:12.480 you're gonna be great, You're gonna look good. We're gonna make sure 311 00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:15.480 that you you know, you look great. It's like, yeah, that's 312 00:22:15.519 --> 00:22:18.880 fine, but you know, I think one of the things I'm most proud 313 00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:21.920 of with suitable flesh is the fact that you know, Heather's been getting all 314 00:22:21.960 --> 00:22:26.839 these great reviews, you know, but because I know she was nervous about 315 00:22:26.839 --> 00:22:30.359 this movie, because you know, she's she's very very much not maybe literally 316 00:22:30.440 --> 00:22:33.960 naked at points, but she's she's giving it her all. And there is 317 00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:37.920 a version of this film that could have been edited that could have used all 318 00:22:37.960 --> 00:22:41.000 her bad takes. You know, being a director is not just being a 319 00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:48.160 good person on set, it's also being a good A good what's the right 320 00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:56.160 word, A good? Uh? I guess magnifier of the best take and 321 00:22:56.240 --> 00:23:00.400 the best choices that the actor makes that you can go, that's the best 322 00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:03.400 take. Take three, she is definitely where she needs to be as opposed 323 00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:06.759 to take two, which might have been bigger, it might have been a 324 00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:08.920 little more, you know, like showy. But that take three is an 325 00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:14.079 amalgam of take one and take two. Like I I know what a good 326 00:23:14.119 --> 00:23:18.359 performance is being an actor myself when I'm in the edit room to pinpoint like 327 00:23:18.680 --> 00:23:22.160 that's what we're using that take right there? Yeah, but you know what 328 00:23:22.359 --> 00:23:23.359 you know, like and this is where the editor goes like, yeah, 329 00:23:23.359 --> 00:23:26.160 but her hand is up here when it should be down here and the continuity 330 00:23:26.200 --> 00:23:29.480 is not right. I'm like, you know what, no one's gonna give 331 00:23:29.480 --> 00:23:32.599 a shit. If the acting is bad, they're gonna notice all that stuff. 332 00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:36.039 If the acting is great, they're not gonna notice continuity at all. 333 00:23:36.039 --> 00:23:40.839 Look at Thelma Shoemaker. She's been lucky enough to have Martin Scorsese directing these 334 00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:47.279 fantastic performances that don't give any shit about fucking continuity. Continuity is continuity. 335 00:23:47.880 --> 00:23:52.839 She can then cultivate and pick the best takes and then somehow make it into 336 00:23:53.119 --> 00:24:00.519 like this collage of performance and style that actually works so well well that you 337 00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:03.240 never notice continuity. Araors if anything, she leans into it so much and 338 00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:07.880 it makes it part of the style. So that's really where like I want 339 00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:12.680 the actors to know before we step foot on a set, before you know, 340 00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:18.440 they say okay and let's do this, that you know I'm there with 341 00:24:18.519 --> 00:24:21.880 you. I've been there with you, and I want to make you want. 342 00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:26.880 I want to help you bring the best performance out possible at any cost. 343 00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:29.240 And you know, whether that means we have to go over, or 344 00:24:29.319 --> 00:24:32.519 whether or not we need another take, or whatever it is, I am 345 00:24:32.559 --> 00:24:34.920 there for them and they you know, they they show up and we become 346 00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:40.519 scene partners together and it all usually works out really great. A lot of 347 00:24:40.519 --> 00:24:44.799 those choices that you're making are serving more than just the actors. One of 348 00:24:44.799 --> 00:24:47.880 the things I really wanted to bring up about this not seem to talk about 349 00:24:47.920 --> 00:24:52.920 regarding suitable flesh anywhere, and that's this this I don't know, like tightrope 350 00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:56.799 that seems to be walked in horror lately, that you're you're discussing mental health 351 00:24:56.880 --> 00:25:00.079 in a lot of this movie. But it's it's not like a lot of 352 00:25:00.119 --> 00:25:04.000 modern horror films, which are mental health and trauma shoving down your throat. 353 00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:07.680 It's just this is a fact of life and that these are people that are 354 00:25:07.720 --> 00:25:11.640 going through something. It's not a message that is trying to get through necessarily. 355 00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:15.000 It's telling a story and this is just an aspect of that. Was 356 00:25:15.720 --> 00:25:19.119 that Was that something that was conscious or was that something that I just felt. 357 00:25:21.720 --> 00:25:25.839 I'm so glad you brought that up, because you're right, like it's 358 00:25:25.880 --> 00:25:30.920 something that I'm I'm glad. I gotta admit, I am blessed that a 359 00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:34.440 lot of the stuff that I didn't think was going to be brought up. 360 00:25:34.759 --> 00:25:37.599 You know, whether the movie came out in Tribeca or the theatrical release and 361 00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:41.039 all the festivals, and you know, then all the release things after I've 362 00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:45.519 done a lot of press, and you know, I'm so grateful that like 363 00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:48.640 things like the queer aspect of the film and the sexual felidity and the gender 364 00:25:48.680 --> 00:25:55.960 aspect of the film has come out no pun but done in a way where 365 00:25:56.039 --> 00:25:59.640 it felt like we were we weren't shoving it down people's throats. There still 366 00:25:59.680 --> 00:26:03.359 is a base, there's a broth, if you will, of the movie 367 00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:06.599 that I want to present to the audience. And if they get the other 368 00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:10.559 stuff, the more subtectual stuff, the more subversive stuff, great again, 369 00:26:10.960 --> 00:26:14.000 just like those handshakes. If you don't get it, it's no no harm, 370 00:26:14.039 --> 00:26:15.799 no foul. But of course we're thinking about it. Of course, 371 00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:21.640 you know, the mental health side of it was so important, especially with 372 00:26:22.039 --> 00:26:26.079 dealing with you know, Heather's characteristics, the fact that she is a health 373 00:26:26.119 --> 00:26:33.680 professional that is trying to help other people and not indemnify or damn them for 374 00:26:33.799 --> 00:26:37.440 having you know, these And I only want to use the word issue like 375 00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:40.599 because look I have and I've never talked about this, but like I've been 376 00:26:40.599 --> 00:26:44.200 suffering from depression since I can remember. You know, there was a time 377 00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:49.160 where I took you know, antidepressants and you know, just to stop the 378 00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:53.279 screaming, just to have the other voices in my head just subside a little 379 00:26:53.319 --> 00:26:56.920 bit, and you know, to be honest, like I hated it because 380 00:26:57.440 --> 00:27:00.119 you know, I am a type of person that you know, can be 381 00:27:00.359 --> 00:27:04.559 at you know, an eight or nine at times and then a two or 382 00:27:04.559 --> 00:27:07.599 a one at other times. Not to say that I'm bipolar. I've never 383 00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:11.640 been diagnosed as being bipolar, but I have some extreme highs and lows, 384 00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:15.440 and you know what that I think that's part of the the wonderment of being 385 00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:19.599 an artist is that you can acknowledge your highs and your lows. And the 386 00:27:21.039 --> 00:27:23.880 the meds brought me to like about a five and a six at times, 387 00:27:25.240 --> 00:27:27.319 or maybe sometimes a four, but it kept me about that level. I 388 00:27:27.319 --> 00:27:32.240 couldn't have been more fucking boring, and like, even to myself, I 389 00:27:32.279 --> 00:27:36.759 just felt like I was just coasting along and I had to embrace those highs 390 00:27:36.759 --> 00:27:38.839 and lows. I had to embrace the screaming. I had to embrace those 391 00:27:38.880 --> 00:27:44.799 other voices. And I haven't been on a medication like that ever since God 392 00:27:44.839 --> 00:27:48.039 since like two thousand and two or two thousand and three, and you know, 393 00:27:48.079 --> 00:27:51.279 I really kind of embraced that. And one of the things that I 394 00:27:51.519 --> 00:27:55.079 like, we, especially Heather and Judah and I talked about in those early 395 00:27:55.160 --> 00:28:00.400 scenes was ah, the desperation that one had as to get to the point 396 00:28:00.440 --> 00:28:07.480 of therapy. It takes a lot for someone to admit that they need help, 397 00:28:07.160 --> 00:28:14.880 and you know, supernatural histronics aside in this movie, there is there 398 00:28:14.920 --> 00:28:18.640 is a way that you can watch this film. You take out the necronomicon, 399 00:28:19.039 --> 00:28:22.599 you take out the Cuthulian stuff, you take out the you know, 400 00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:27.519 the the dead body roaming around in certain points, and you could see this 401 00:28:27.759 --> 00:28:33.160 as you know, a cry for help for people with you know, multiple 402 00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:36.279 personality disorder. I know that there's another phrase for it, but you know, 403 00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:40.480 that's the one that always comes to mind for me. And that's something 404 00:28:40.519 --> 00:28:44.839 that like I've actually had some people come up to me like after screenings and 405 00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:48.680 say like was that stuff really there? And like, oh, what do 406 00:28:48.759 --> 00:28:51.920 you mean? And they'd be like, well, because it feels more like 407 00:28:52.200 --> 00:28:56.440 this could be a psychological thriller and this was all just in people's heads the 408 00:28:56.440 --> 00:29:00.000 whole time, and they are manifesting the supernatural element as a way of as 409 00:29:00.039 --> 00:29:07.319 almost a defense mechanism for their own you know, their own you know kind 410 00:29:07.319 --> 00:29:11.240 of chemistry, chemical imbalance, and how they are dealing with it. You 411 00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:14.799 know, we do live You're right, we do live in a time where 412 00:29:14.880 --> 00:29:18.799 trauma horror is like all the rage. I didn't I didn't want to go 413 00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:22.680 down that path. There was actually a version of this script that could have 414 00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:26.519 delved more into the trauma side of it, and I was like, I 415 00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:30.920 would rather get to the stuff that creates the trauma and at least know how 416 00:29:30.920 --> 00:29:33.039 to understand it, because you know, at the end of the day, 417 00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:38.400 the characters where they end up in this film are in very very different places 418 00:29:38.440 --> 00:29:42.759 than where they started out, which was obviously intentional. But I wanted to 419 00:29:42.839 --> 00:29:48.240 create a sense of madness that you know, I think we all know very 420 00:29:48.279 --> 00:29:53.759 well in our own selves. I think that's something that Lovecraft was very slick. 421 00:29:55.039 --> 00:29:57.559 You know, even back in the teens and twenties, almost a century 422 00:29:57.559 --> 00:30:00.960 ago. He was dealing with that, you know, whether it was himself, 423 00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:07.079 but he was dealing with that from a more scientific approach and almost psychological 424 00:30:07.119 --> 00:30:10.960 approach. So that's really no, believe me. We talked a lot about 425 00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:12.680 that, and you are the first person to actually bring that up. So 426 00:30:12.960 --> 00:30:15.920 I apolaug you, sir, thank you for thank you for getting us. 427 00:30:17.240 --> 00:30:19.519 It was I don't know, I'm I'm a psych major, so I guess 428 00:30:19.559 --> 00:30:22.880 that's going to come to me. But it genuinely the whole thing, And 429 00:30:22.880 --> 00:30:26.319 I don't know if you heard me the first time, it just felt so 430 00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:30.680 respectful, it felt so real and so just acknowledging that there are people facing 431 00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:33.960 this and like you, I've you know, a very very similar thing. 432 00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:37.680 I've been fighting depression for years, took medics for a little while, but 433 00:30:37.119 --> 00:30:41.640 I think just embracing the creativity side of a lot of this and going no, 434 00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:45.759 just fucking deal with it and work around it, and your life can 435 00:30:45.799 --> 00:30:48.440 be so much better than being quit. Just just find the other ways, 436 00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:55.519 exactly, Just find other outlets and avenues to be able to confront because you 437 00:30:55.559 --> 00:30:57.480 know the one thing that I had to learn, you know, I started 438 00:30:57.519 --> 00:31:03.079 doing therapy again last year just so much was going on in my life and 439 00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:08.119 I needed someone to unload besides my wife. I needed is to unload my 440 00:31:08.119 --> 00:31:11.799 my trot, my psyche on other people. And you know, my other 441 00:31:12.039 --> 00:31:17.759 states of affairs to someone on the outside front and a little more objective. 442 00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:21.599 And you know, it's always been scared, scary for me to do that 443 00:31:21.720 --> 00:31:23.000 because anytime that I used to do it in the past, I'm like, 444 00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:26.240 oh god, I got to do the whole fucking story all over again. 445 00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:30.519 And then you know, then I got to do two or three sessions, 446 00:31:30.559 --> 00:31:33.000 and then I find out that that person's not right for me, and what 447 00:31:33.160 --> 00:31:37.119 have you. So you know, I I went I went back to therapy, 448 00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:41.920 and I'm so glad I did because it was able to therapeutically be able 449 00:31:41.960 --> 00:31:45.680 to talk about these sort of things and get it off my chest without having 450 00:31:45.680 --> 00:31:49.480 to resort to chemicals that are stifling it down and compartmentalizing it in a way. 451 00:31:49.599 --> 00:31:55.000 And then look, I'm not poo pooing the medical route or the pharmaceutical 452 00:31:55.079 --> 00:31:57.039 route at all. You know, to each their own, everyone's got a 453 00:31:57.039 --> 00:32:01.480 different, you know, path to their own happiness. I found that I 454 00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:07.920 am happiest when I am dealing with it in a creative kind of realm, 455 00:32:07.319 --> 00:32:14.000 whether it's making a movie or you know, creating anything you know, visual 456 00:32:14.240 --> 00:32:19.960 or anything from an artistic standpoint, or even just falling into a great movie 457 00:32:20.440 --> 00:32:23.200 or falling into a great you know story, whether it's on TV, film, 458 00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:29.319 whatever, Like, I find myself pulling myself out of those situations through 459 00:32:29.720 --> 00:32:32.359 art and in other cases it's through my own art, you know. And 460 00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:36.799 I think that that's been like the thing that's kind of saved me, you 461 00:32:36.839 --> 00:32:38.480 know, for so many years, and that was something that I wanted to 462 00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:43.400 make sure was was in the movie as well. It works very well. 463 00:32:44.359 --> 00:32:47.680 Speaking of your art, you clearly are an advocate for physical media. Like 464 00:32:47.720 --> 00:32:52.079 there's a lot of stuff that you've been a part of that exist in time. 465 00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:54.039 And that was so awesome, by the way, that was so cool. 466 00:32:54.319 --> 00:32:59.200 A fan of Lynch, Oh that was so cool. Oh that's so 467 00:32:59.319 --> 00:33:01.359 neat. I had Knights of Bad asthem. I wasn't gonna pull it out 468 00:33:01.359 --> 00:33:05.960 to bring up bad memories, but no, no, I But you know 469 00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:08.720 what, that's that's another element of trauma. Dude. I went through the 470 00:33:08.799 --> 00:33:14.440 worst, like one of the worst mental phases of my life through that movie. 471 00:33:14.920 --> 00:33:20.079 And now I can happily say that I've gotten through it and I've embraced 472 00:33:20.599 --> 00:33:23.279 the trauma that was Nights of Bad assden to the point where you know, 473 00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:27.759 I used to take someone aside for forty five minutes and when they dude, 474 00:33:27.759 --> 00:33:29.920 I look bad Nights of bad As Them, We're like, whoa hold on, 475 00:33:29.960 --> 00:33:31.119 do you have about forty five minutes to an hour, because I'm going 476 00:33:31.119 --> 00:33:36.920 to explain to you the fucking nightmare that that movie was. Now, yeah, 477 00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:38.240 I'm just like, I'm so glad you liked it. And I'm not 478 00:33:38.279 --> 00:33:43.119 even being snide about it too. It's like I have learned throughout the years. 479 00:33:43.480 --> 00:33:45.000 I mean, Knights of bad Asden was my second film, you know, 480 00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:47.759 and I had a good track record up to that point. Wrong term 481 00:33:47.839 --> 00:33:51.960 two was you know, kind of a sleeper hit, and everyone really liked 482 00:33:51.960 --> 00:33:53.880 it and it was very well respected. So I thought like, I'm the 483 00:33:54.119 --> 00:33:57.960 new hot thing, and then I make Nights of Bad Ass Them, and 484 00:33:58.000 --> 00:34:02.720 then reality set in and I got the face like that ah, and I 485 00:34:02.799 --> 00:34:07.920 thought like, Okay, I've tarnished my filmography. I've screwed everything up. 486 00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:13.400 Now I have a pock mark on my career. But so many of our 487 00:34:13.400 --> 00:34:19.280 favorite filmmakers have movies like that that, to them are total dogs, that 488 00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:23.039 are completely destroyed, that have been you know, maybe misunderstood when they first 489 00:34:23.039 --> 00:34:28.840 came out and are now considered masterpieces just because the right people saw them or 490 00:34:28.880 --> 00:34:32.519 the right audience found those movies. And that's a movie that a lot of 491 00:34:32.519 --> 00:34:36.920 people really enjoy. And who am I to say they're wrong? I used 492 00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:39.320 to say they're wrong, but that was because of my own baggage. Now 493 00:34:39.360 --> 00:34:43.480 I go, I'm so glad you like that movie, because you know, 494 00:34:43.639 --> 00:34:45.760 like, I'll sit there and go, but have you seen Everly, Oh 495 00:34:45.800 --> 00:34:47.400 that movie sucks. I'm like, wait a second, I love that movie. 496 00:34:47.599 --> 00:34:53.719 You never know, you can never you can never truly predict the subjective 497 00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:59.159 eyeballs that are going to be presented onto your art and onto your story. 498 00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:01.239 They could be bringing. There could be people that are going to watch suitable 499 00:35:01.239 --> 00:35:08.960 flesh who have a complete aversion to Heather Graham or sex in movies or backup 500 00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:13.480 cameras. Who knows what's going to possibly trigger them into what they're going to 501 00:35:13.599 --> 00:35:15.360 like or not. Like, I can't control that. All I can do 502 00:35:15.400 --> 00:35:20.239 is put the best version of that and of myself and my version of that 503 00:35:20.360 --> 00:35:22.119 out there possible, and then you know, kind of see where the chips 504 00:35:22.119 --> 00:35:25.440 fall from there, and then by then it's not even your movie it's everybody 505 00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:30.400 else's. They get everything else make it what they want. I am Adam 506 00:35:30.440 --> 00:35:35.400 Lundy, co host of They Live by Film, a podcast dedicated to bringing 507 00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:38.599 you film discussion on interviews from around the world. Every week, my co 508 00:35:38.679 --> 00:35:43.440 hosts Chris Haskell, Zach Bryant and I discuss a wide range of films, 509 00:35:43.480 --> 00:35:47.440 from monumental classics like Vertigo and the Rules of the Game to the craziest schlockiest 510 00:35:47.480 --> 00:35:52.159 movies ever made like Deathbed and everything in between. We are also lucky enough 511 00:35:52.199 --> 00:35:55.239 to have sat down with some of the biggest players in the boutique blu ray 512 00:35:55.280 --> 00:35:59.719 and film restoration game. If this is your thing, then come hang out 513 00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:04.280 with us every Thursday at seven pm Eastern wherever you normally stream your podcasts and 514 00:36:04.360 --> 00:36:13.679 now as part of the Someone's Favorite Productions podcast network. But with physical media, 515 00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:16.360 I mean you're talking about people discovering it. You've left, You've left 516 00:36:16.360 --> 00:36:21.880 this little trail of breadcumbs, breadcrumbs for everybody that a lot of artists don't 517 00:36:21.880 --> 00:36:24.199 get to do nowadays. A lot of stuff is you know, languishing after 518 00:36:24.280 --> 00:36:29.079 festivals or stuck on streaming and rights like that, as you know, fucking 519 00:36:29.119 --> 00:36:32.519 stuff over. But you're even going back and you know, giving us a 520 00:36:32.559 --> 00:36:37.599 commentary for beast Master that you're moderating for Vinegar Syndrome and doing stuff like that, 521 00:36:37.639 --> 00:36:43.719 and that's such such a cool thing for a filmmaker that is not even 522 00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:45.920 invested in that film in the outside world, Like, why do that? 523 00:36:45.960 --> 00:36:51.039 Why is that important to you? Because when I was growing up, I 524 00:36:51.440 --> 00:36:53.679 you know, when when I was a little kid, I had Fangoria and 525 00:36:53.719 --> 00:36:59.039 cine Fantastic. I had these magazines, and you know, there was certain 526 00:36:59.119 --> 00:37:02.960 shows like Lights Care or Action that Leonardimoy hosted for Nickelodeon. There were these 527 00:37:04.199 --> 00:37:09.239 little little like peaks behind the curtain as to the process of making movies. 528 00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:14.760 Then in the nineties when you had laser discs and DVDs, and there was 529 00:37:14.960 --> 00:37:21.079 in the Internet obviously, but there was a much wider gap of opportunity to 530 00:37:21.199 --> 00:37:24.159 be able to allow people to see how a movie's made. It used to 531 00:37:24.199 --> 00:37:28.840 be I just thought everybody, every director had a big bullhorn and they were 532 00:37:28.840 --> 00:37:31.000 always on a crane at all times, and they're floating around and everything, 533 00:37:31.159 --> 00:37:36.360 screaming and yelling at people. And then you start listening to commentary tracks and 534 00:37:36.400 --> 00:37:39.039 you start seeing behind the scenes, stuff that you don't normally see, you 535 00:37:39.039 --> 00:37:43.159 know, if you're not media, because normally they would have like epks that 536 00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:45.159 would go out to the media and maybe you'd see them on the nightly news, 537 00:37:45.199 --> 00:37:52.079 but not in this form. And that kind of behind the scenes processing 538 00:37:52.119 --> 00:37:59.840 fodder was my gold I cherished. I still have all my laser discs. 539 00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:05.639 I you know, I started collecting them primarily because I got more out of 540 00:38:05.719 --> 00:38:08.039 laser discs and the commentaries and the behind the scenes and the lead of scenes 541 00:38:08.079 --> 00:38:13.440 and all that stuff. I got more out of the filmmaking process than I 542 00:38:13.480 --> 00:38:15.000 did in film school. The only thing I got out of film school was 543 00:38:15.039 --> 00:38:19.000 free use of the equipment, to be honest, and I liked my school, 544 00:38:19.360 --> 00:38:23.639 but I anything that I learned about make truly making movies and the craft 545 00:38:23.679 --> 00:38:28.320 behind it, the artistry behind it, all came out of those special features, 546 00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:30.960 and I thought, well, you know, like these are going to 547 00:38:31.000 --> 00:38:35.840 be around forever, you know, But obviously the market has changed. You 548 00:38:35.840 --> 00:38:38.239 know, back in the nineties when DVDs were out, the reason why we 549 00:38:38.280 --> 00:38:43.800 had so much stuff, we had a plethora of special features was because they 550 00:38:43.800 --> 00:38:46.599 had the space for it on the disc, so they had to put stuff 551 00:38:46.639 --> 00:38:52.800 on there, so they almost like forced film school onto unsuspecting sinists and burgeoning 552 00:38:52.800 --> 00:38:59.119 filmmakers for years. And then the marketplace changed and DVDs weren't as you know, 553 00:38:59.159 --> 00:39:02.000 as profitable, and you know, blu rays obviously were an extension of 554 00:39:02.039 --> 00:39:07.119 that. But now we were getting into streaming, and the thought process that 555 00:39:07.199 --> 00:39:08.960 studios were coming from was, well, people don't want that shit anymore. 556 00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:12.320 And I was like, there's going to be a whole There's going to be 557 00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:19.320 multiple generations of people that are going to have just as much passion about the 558 00:39:19.400 --> 00:39:22.800 craft of filmmaking and just the art of filmmaking, but now they're not going 559 00:39:22.840 --> 00:39:27.519 to have the resources of films that have all of those peaks behind the scenes 560 00:39:27.559 --> 00:39:30.280 and to show how the sausage is made, so to speak. And like, 561 00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:37.360 I feel like it's my contribution to pass the baton onto future generations. 562 00:39:37.639 --> 00:39:40.719 Whether they like my movies or not, they can still be able to go 563 00:39:40.840 --> 00:39:45.400 back, at least in most of them, and to see like how is 564 00:39:45.440 --> 00:39:49.239 Mayhem made, and how is everly made? And how is suitable flesh made. 565 00:39:49.239 --> 00:39:52.440 I mean, you know, I'm not trying to pooh pooh the studio, 566 00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:54.719 but you know, when they were talking. I knew that, you 567 00:39:54.760 --> 00:39:59.039 know, through RLJ, we were definitely going to have a physical media release, 568 00:39:59.480 --> 00:40:01.239 and you know, in the past, I've worked with them for years 569 00:40:01.559 --> 00:40:05.760 and we always had a bunch of special features, including a commentary. I 570 00:40:06.360 --> 00:40:12.079 am the type of idiot that would literally rip commentaries off of the DVD make 571 00:40:12.119 --> 00:40:15.320 them into MP three so I can listen to them in traffic. That's how 572 00:40:15.400 --> 00:40:20.119 much I love commentaries so like and as you know, I can talk a 573 00:40:20.119 --> 00:40:23.199 little bit, but I love talking about movies and going on diatribes or talking 574 00:40:23.199 --> 00:40:27.119 about that particular shot, like I'm proud of the movie and I want to 575 00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:29.559 fucking talk about it, and if it means that someone else is going to 576 00:40:29.599 --> 00:40:34.039 want to listen to it, awesome. But the studio was like, oh, 577 00:40:34.519 --> 00:40:37.280 I don't. We didn't really have any plans for any special features that 578 00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:40.039 we're producing, but if you have anything, you can send it our way. 579 00:40:40.039 --> 00:40:44.599 I'm like, oh okay. Now, back in the day, like 580 00:40:44.639 --> 00:40:47.239 with Wrong Turn two and with Knights of bad Ass them, I think even 581 00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:51.800 with Everly, it was built into the budget that there would be an ePK 582 00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:54.119 crew. We didn't have that on suitable flesh. I didn't have that on 583 00:40:54.199 --> 00:41:00.119 Mayhem, we would have anybody that was shooting something, you just shot it. 584 00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:01.599 So it ended up being me a lot of times or some of my 585 00:41:01.639 --> 00:41:06.519 crew members, and then we would put something together from there. I knew 586 00:41:06.599 --> 00:41:10.000 that we had a wealth of footage from the making of Suitable Flesh, and 587 00:41:10.039 --> 00:41:13.880 there were all these ideas that I had everything from, you know, the 588 00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:16.920 storyboards, because I had never really done copious storyboards the way I did in 589 00:41:16.960 --> 00:41:22.280 Suitable Flesh, and I used to love those segments where they would do storyboards 590 00:41:22.280 --> 00:41:24.639 to film comparisons. I love that shit. So I'm like, well, 591 00:41:24.679 --> 00:41:28.119 I can do that, and I know you like, I edit most of 592 00:41:28.119 --> 00:41:30.119 my own work anyway, so I can just put that together, or you 593 00:41:30.199 --> 00:41:34.800 know, a conversation with Steve Moore, my composer. The composer never gets 594 00:41:35.239 --> 00:41:37.960 the amount of respect that they deserve for technically doing the whole movie together. 595 00:41:38.239 --> 00:41:40.519 And Steve and I have worked together before, and I was like, well, 596 00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:44.840 we can do you know, a conversation with Steve because I'm a big 597 00:41:44.880 --> 00:41:47.000 fan of his from Zombie and He's done multiple things that I've done, and 598 00:41:47.199 --> 00:41:51.119 I like talking to the guy, you know, why not? And then 599 00:41:51.159 --> 00:41:52.760 with a commentary same thing. It's like to be able to sit down with 600 00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:57.199 Barbara and one of the producers, Bob Portal, and be able to just 601 00:41:57.280 --> 00:42:00.199 kind of talk about the nitty gritty of the movie. I know, at 602 00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:07.519 the very least, anybody who is even like somewhat temporarily or possibly a fan 603 00:42:07.559 --> 00:42:10.679 of this movie, if they dive into the special features, they're going to 604 00:42:10.719 --> 00:42:15.719 find something in there that's going to make them either rethink the movie or enhance 605 00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:17.480 their thinking of the movie, or who knows, maybe pick up a camera 606 00:42:17.519 --> 00:42:21.320 themselves and go I can do better than that. Good, go for it, 607 00:42:21.320 --> 00:42:23.119 because you know what, I did the same thing. So that's why 608 00:42:23.239 --> 00:42:30.119 my love for physical media, but also being a vessel for these special features 609 00:42:30.360 --> 00:42:35.360 I think is so important now that filmmakers embrace that, because that if we 610 00:42:35.440 --> 00:42:40.079 stop demanding it go on these physical media releases or even you know, like 611 00:42:40.119 --> 00:42:45.440 on streaming services. I did a commentary for Mayhem with Stephen for Shutter and 612 00:42:45.519 --> 00:42:47.119 it was great. This time they were just like, na, Na, 613 00:42:47.239 --> 00:42:50.440 we're good. I'm like, all right, fine, but I could have 614 00:42:50.519 --> 00:42:53.679 gotten Heather and Barbara and Judah. But whatever. But at least I know 615 00:42:53.760 --> 00:43:00.239 that there's something of an archive of all the hard work that the cat and 616 00:43:00.280 --> 00:43:04.960 the crew put together to make this movie. There is a there's a physical 617 00:43:05.880 --> 00:43:09.840 record of that and then shows as like a testament to all the hard work 618 00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:14.280 that people put into this movie. Not that the movie is not enough, 619 00:43:14.320 --> 00:43:17.840 obviously, but it is always just a you know, an easy way to 620 00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:21.599 champion all the hard work that goes into it. So thank you for always 621 00:43:21.719 --> 00:43:24.800 standing up for stuff like that. As a last question, Uh, were 622 00:43:24.840 --> 00:43:28.719 some that were, you know, inspirational for you when you were younger? 623 00:43:28.880 --> 00:43:31.559 Do you remember specific titles that you would recommend people to check out that you 624 00:43:31.559 --> 00:43:36.519 you loved back in the day, The commentaries and stuff like that. Oh 625 00:43:36.519 --> 00:43:40.280 for commentaries, Oh yeah, I mean one of all right, So the 626 00:43:40.360 --> 00:43:45.800 John Millius and Arnold Swarzenegger commentary for Conan the Barbarian. That that one is 627 00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:53.599 just rife with UNPC comment like conversation that would not sway now, but just 628 00:43:54.320 --> 00:43:59.159 it truly feels like it's a fly on the wall situation, which I love. 629 00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:05.840 I love that one. Any Scorsese commentary is just gold. The Raging 630 00:44:05.880 --> 00:44:10.760 Bull commentary that is actually on the Criterion channel now, that one is highly 631 00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:16.599 recommended. One of my favorite, like fun commentaries. Is the Kevin Smith 632 00:44:16.639 --> 00:44:21.800 commentary that he did for mal Rats, which he got like the whole crew 633 00:44:21.960 --> 00:44:23.760 and cast together, it actually shot it on video. That was one of 634 00:44:23.760 --> 00:44:28.039 the first video commentaries that I had ever seen. But you can just kind 635 00:44:28.079 --> 00:44:30.119 of tell that they are had like they had a blast making as hard as 636 00:44:30.159 --> 00:44:34.559 it was, They at least a cast with having an absolute blast, and 637 00:44:34.599 --> 00:44:39.800 you know that that definitely shows Let me think, uh, I think those 638 00:44:39.840 --> 00:44:45.480 are those are the ones that like kind of spring to mind immediately. You 639 00:44:45.519 --> 00:44:50.400 know, I think, if anything, to pick your favorite movie and if 640 00:44:50.440 --> 00:44:52.840 it has a commentary, trust me, there will be something on there that 641 00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:59.079 you will go like the best. The best commentaries to me are not the 642 00:44:59.119 --> 00:45:02.960 ones that they record. Because there was a time where they knew DVDs were 643 00:45:04.159 --> 00:45:07.239 profitable and making profit. They built it into the budget. They also built 644 00:45:07.239 --> 00:45:10.480 it into the marketing schedule that the cast and crew would do the commentary before 645 00:45:10.519 --> 00:45:16.239 the movie came out, So everybody on the commentary, like for Fucking Blade 646 00:45:16.800 --> 00:45:22.760 or ghost Ship or whatever have you, we're all recording those commentaries before the 647 00:45:22.760 --> 00:45:25.960 movie either bombed or did successfully and was critically louded. So everyone's like patting 648 00:45:25.960 --> 00:45:29.440 themselves on the back, like, oh man, you guys are great giving 649 00:45:29.480 --> 00:45:38.199 modies. It's the commentaries that when you can be more reflective on the resonance 650 00:45:38.280 --> 00:45:42.280 of the movie, whether it's a couple of years later, twenty years later, 651 00:45:43.159 --> 00:45:45.719 fa all right, my hands down, My two favorite are it's a 652 00:45:45.800 --> 00:45:51.079 two fer. It's anytime you get John Carpenter and Kurt Russell in the same 653 00:45:51.159 --> 00:45:57.159 room and you can listen to them on the thing and Big Trumble Little China, 654 00:45:57.320 --> 00:46:00.360 like you truly feel like you're at a bar and these two schmos walked 655 00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:05.960 in and you just have the best fucking conversation with them, Like they pull 656 00:46:06.039 --> 00:46:09.599 no punches, especially Carpenter, he gives and he gives zero fox. But 657 00:46:09.639 --> 00:46:13.599 that's what I want to hear. I don't want to hear people blowing smoke 658 00:46:13.679 --> 00:46:15.760 up each other's ass. I want to hear them go, I really fucked 659 00:46:15.800 --> 00:46:19.199 up there. Now. I'm not the biggest fan of that moment there, 660 00:46:19.320 --> 00:46:22.880 but that moment's great. Also, another commentary that was recorded for the laser 661 00:46:22.920 --> 00:46:27.880 disc of Texas Chainsaw Masker was one of the first ones that Toby did. 662 00:46:28.159 --> 00:46:30.400 I believe with Dan Pearl and Gunnar Hanson, I think they were in the 663 00:46:30.400 --> 00:46:35.199 same room. Sometimes it's hard when you can hear like they did separate interviews 664 00:46:35.239 --> 00:46:37.239 and they splice them all together. I like the ones where they're like all 665 00:46:37.280 --> 00:46:40.639 in the room together, probably have a couple of beers. They're watching the 666 00:46:40.679 --> 00:46:45.880 movie and they're just regaling old stories. The one that they did for Elite's 667 00:46:45.960 --> 00:46:51.679 original version of the Texas Chainsawn Masker is one of the best because Toby is 668 00:46:51.719 --> 00:46:53.679 the first person to say, Oh, man, I really fucked up there, 669 00:46:53.880 --> 00:46:57.079 you know, like that's what I want to hear. I want to 670 00:46:57.119 --> 00:47:00.280 hear that, like whether it was a choice or not, or whether it 671 00:47:00.320 --> 00:47:04.840 was you know, like a happy accident or something that they spent fucking weeks 672 00:47:04.880 --> 00:47:09.320 on that corpse that's sitting on top of that that but that memorial that they 673 00:47:09.719 --> 00:47:13.000 really put the time into it. You know, like I want to hear 674 00:47:13.039 --> 00:47:16.760 all that stuff. So, you know, if it's just for recreational fun 675 00:47:17.159 --> 00:47:22.480 or if you really want to take notes, find your favorite movie and try 676 00:47:22.480 --> 00:47:28.320 to find a movie that that has a commentary that was like retroactive. You 677 00:47:28.400 --> 00:47:30.480 know. So a lot of the movies that came out with like Shout, 678 00:47:30.559 --> 00:47:35.159 Factory and Arrow and Vineger Syndrome sever and all those companies. If they have 679 00:47:35.400 --> 00:47:37.280 a commentary that's come out like within the last couple of years, and the 680 00:47:37.320 --> 00:47:42.159 movies maybe ten or fifteen years old, that's the one to go for less. 681 00:47:42.159 --> 00:47:44.639 So maybe the ones where it's like all right, it's been recorded, 682 00:47:44.679 --> 00:47:47.199 like they're saying like, yeah, we're recording this two days before the premiere 683 00:47:47.199 --> 00:47:51.000 and oh my god, Detroit Rock City is going to be the number one 684 00:47:51.079 --> 00:47:53.159 hit of the summer and you're like, no, it's not. Nope, 685 00:47:53.159 --> 00:47:57.440 that that did not happen. Sorry. You know, but if you find 686 00:47:57.440 --> 00:48:00.199 at least one of those movies, I guarantee you're gonna have a a wildly 687 00:48:00.400 --> 00:48:06.119 new experience with that movie, and one you'll never forget. Well said, 688 00:48:06.199 --> 00:48:07.280 thank you for your time, Joe. I know you got other places to 689 00:48:07.320 --> 00:48:13.360 be. I appreciate this. This was incredible, Ryan, honestly amazing questions. 690 00:48:13.760 --> 00:48:16.679 It was such an honor to talk to you like it. You gave 691 00:48:16.679 --> 00:48:22.800 a good question and you were great. I really enjoyed this conversation. Thanks 692 00:48:22.840 --> 00:48:24.960 so much, Shoe. Hopefully we can talk again someday. Oh tell Jeremy 693 00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:29.679 he really missed out, so for him, Oh, I will have a 694 00:48:29.719 --> 00:48:32.400 good all right Bye, bye bye. Thank you for listening to the Disconnected 695 00:48:32.440 --> 00:48:36.360 podcast. There's one big thing that you could do to help the show, 696 00:48:36.440 --> 00:48:38.559 and that is to leave a rating and review on the podcast service of your 697 00:48:38.639 --> 00:49:13.760 choice. Thank you tell me no Hello. This is Matt and Emily from 698 00:49:13.760 --> 00:49:17.199 Scarecrow Video in Seattle, Washington. Did you know that we have the largest 699 00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:22.280 video collection in the world. We have over one hundred and forty six thousand 700 00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:27.239 titles and growing. That's over three times more than Netflix, Amazon Max, 701 00:49:27.320 --> 00:49:30.920 and Hulu combined. Plus a Scarecrow now offers rent by mail service throughout the 702 00:49:31.000 --> 00:49:35.920 US, so check out Scarecrow Video dot org for details. You can catch 703 00:49:35.920 --> 00:49:37.920 Emily and I or Matt and I if that was going to be you saying 704 00:49:37.960 --> 00:49:43.960 that on our biweekly YouTube show Viva Physical Media for video recommendations and so much 705 00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:45.360 more. C bye e