1 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:08,560 What is krack Alak and hardwa Knox listeners, I am Dan Favalley about to 2 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:12,439 come at you with my fantabulous co host Adam frommel We aren't going to dive 3 00:00:12,439 --> 00:00:16,960 into our first mail bag of the season. And also some Ben Simmons talked, 4 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,640 but it is not the discussion about Ben Simmons that you think it is, 5 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:23,280 so stay tuned for that. Just a quick reminder before we get started 6 00:00:23,559 --> 00:00:27,920 to please, please, pretty please continue rating, reviewing, and subscribing above 7 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:31,839 all to hardwe Knox. Wherever you get your podcast, whether you use iTunes 8 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:34,240 or not, we ask that you head over there. Throw us a five 9 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,960 star rating, writer review those help us out a ton on the charts, 10 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:42,159 in addition to obviously subscribing and downloading every episode. If this is your first 11 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:46,079 time listening to hardware Knox, consider throwing us that permanent subscription. We cover 12 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:49,679 the MBA at large, have a ton of fun doing it. Do not 13 00:00:49,799 --> 00:00:56,840 take ourselves too theorious too seriously, but pride ourselves on being thorough. That's 14 00:00:56,840 --> 00:00:58,840 it. That's out of well, well, I guess. Follow us on 15 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:02,079 Twitter at hardwar Knox, follow us on YouTube, YouTube dot com or Hardwoo 16 00:01:02,119 --> 00:01:06,560 Knox will come right up. We're also on Instagram at Hardwood Underscore Knox. 17 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:08,359 With all that out of the way, let's get into our first mail bag 18 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:15,319 of the season. Hello everyone, and welcome to the latest episode of Hardwood 19 00:01:15,359 --> 00:01:19,439 Knox. It's our first mailbag episode of the now in progress twenty one twenty 20 00:01:19,439 --> 00:01:25,760 two NBA season, so we're excited. Even if the response to our prompts 21 00:01:25,799 --> 00:01:27,920 for questions was low enough that you might have thought I sent the tweets, 22 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:32,040 since typically I'm the one who doesn't get responses, but it was actually Dan. 23 00:01:32,519 --> 00:01:34,799 So just you know, if you're listening to this, if you're enjoying 24 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,719 the mailbag episodes, if you're enjoying any episodes at all, just keep your 25 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,079 eyes peeled for those prompts because you have a chance to be featured in these 26 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:47,760 episodes with one of your questions before we dive into the actual questions that we 27 00:01:47,799 --> 00:01:52,079 did get. How's it going, Dan, I am spectacular over here. 28 00:01:52,159 --> 00:01:57,239 I'll take I'll take responsibility for the less than stellar response, and we normally 29 00:01:57,319 --> 00:02:00,319 have so many great questions. I think I sent it out like in the 30 00:02:00,319 --> 00:02:02,719 middle of football some day, so that's on me. I have to timing 31 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:07,000 better. We did get more responses in the Kansas City Chief scored points. 32 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,639 That's always a plus and that would normally be like a pretty high bar. 33 00:02:10,759 --> 00:02:15,159 Yeah, I was about to say, right, it's like it's a pretty 34 00:02:15,159 --> 00:02:17,080 low bar this season, so that doesn't make me as happy. I'm pretty 35 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,719 sure that you and I could both like play on that offensive line at this 36 00:02:20,759 --> 00:02:23,439 point. So that's that's neither here. How are you doing I'm doing well. 37 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:28,680 I'm doing well. I went to a pumpkin patch with my parents, 38 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:31,479 my wife and my kid and took some some holiday themed pictures and got some 39 00:02:31,479 --> 00:02:37,439 stuff for jack lantern carving later this afternoon today, So got some fresh air. 40 00:02:37,479 --> 00:02:39,360 I'm I'm ready to go though and talk some basketball. Wow, if 41 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:44,520 you're listening to this, just think about how Adam has already carved his jack 42 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:46,639 lanterard like he said this, but it's already done. There will be no 43 00:02:46,759 --> 00:02:51,439 pictures because I have I have no artistic talent whatsoever. I struggle with stick 44 00:02:51,479 --> 00:02:54,000 figures, so it's going to be a disaster. But he won't know any 45 00:02:54,039 --> 00:02:59,599 better, So that's that's what matters. Are you ready? Let's so I 46 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:02,280 wanted to again before we went into this mail bag with air quotes because we 47 00:03:02,319 --> 00:03:06,919 have, like, I think, seven questions, but I wanted to talk 48 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,759 about Ben Simmons one. I know some people are exhausted from it. I 49 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:14,680 have, so I have some I have many layers of takes here that I 50 00:03:14,719 --> 00:03:20,080 will try and make succinct. I don't like when people act like they're above 51 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,479 the Ben Simmons thing to talk about it. I understand if you don't want 52 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:25,800 it to dominate the NBA news cycle, but it's a real thing that's happening. 53 00:03:25,879 --> 00:03:30,439 This is a wildly important player to what's supposed to be one of the 54 00:03:30,439 --> 00:03:34,919 best teams in the league, and it's turned into a ship show that's headline 55 00:03:34,919 --> 00:03:37,080 news. Now. If you want to make fun of the reporting, I'm 56 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,520 here for the jokes. I've made plenty of them on Twitter. It feels 57 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:46,120 like both sides are handling this situation very poorly. The two things that I 58 00:03:46,159 --> 00:03:51,639 take issue with is, and they're on both sides, defense and maybe it's 59 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:53,879 three things, because I think the overarching point is we need to be able 60 00:03:53,879 --> 00:03:59,639 to have like discussions where there's a gray area that not everything is so cut 61 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:04,039 and the people that think they're somehow pro labor by just taking Ben Simmons side. 62 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:09,639 I can't bring myself to understand that when you're talking about someone who is 63 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:12,599 going to make nearly one hundred and fifty million dollars over the next four years, 64 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:17,079 and this isn't a millionaire versus billionaire thing because he's impacting other people on 65 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:20,000 the team. It's not even just the front highly paid front office guys. 66 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:24,560 It's not just indeed, but it's like lower level guys on the team, 67 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:27,920 lower level guys within this organization. If this blows up in the Sixers face, 68 00:04:28,199 --> 00:04:30,959 there are gonna be people that lose their jobs, Like are there's a 69 00:04:30,959 --> 00:04:33,519 trickle down effect to this. I'm not looking at Ben Simmons, who is 70 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:38,720 rich and has the flexibility to do what he wants, as me being pro 71 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:43,519 labor. There is when we were talking about the middle of the pandemic and 72 00:04:43,959 --> 00:04:46,800 NBA teams were saying, oh, we'll match whatever our players raised, like, 73 00:04:46,879 --> 00:04:49,600 yes, you want to go that route where these teams are worth billions 74 00:04:49,639 --> 00:04:56,120 and billions of dollars and they're putting the onus on the millionaire players to go 75 00:04:56,199 --> 00:05:00,240 out and have an impact on the community first before they do anything. Totally 76 00:05:00,319 --> 00:05:02,319 with you. The other thing and This is from someone who who thinks that 77 00:05:02,319 --> 00:05:10,839 Ben Simmons has handled this situation less than ideally. We gotta be more sensitive 78 00:05:11,519 --> 00:05:17,040 to mental well being here. We can't just automatically assume that he is faking 79 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:21,000 a mental health issue here. I, for one, look if you don't 80 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:25,560 think if if you think that this is a ruse, and I hope it's 81 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,680 not. I hope the thing that he's not mentally ready to play is not 82 00:05:28,879 --> 00:05:31,680 a ruse. But if you think it's a ruse, I kind of understand 83 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:38,160 that based off how everything has unfolded to this point. There's that's not what 84 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:40,480 you're you can make a joke about, Like you want to talk about the 85 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:44,439 report that came out that his camp thinks that the Sixers were too good for 86 00:05:44,519 --> 00:05:46,000 him to develop. Yes, that is fucking stupid. That is one of 87 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:50,560 the dumbest things I've ever heard. But like, this is someone who regardless 88 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:54,000 of what you if you think that he's not willing to improve, that's a 89 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:58,160 different discussion. But I if someone is going to say that they're not mentally 90 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,879 ready to do something after they just went through this entire process, where I 91 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:05,519 have to imagine, like, this isn't just a unilateral Ben Simmons decision. 92 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:10,279 He has people in his ear, Rich Paul or whoever else is at Clutch 93 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:13,920 Sports, Like, do we think it was Ben Simmons's decision alone to hold 94 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:16,720 out or then to show up. No, there are people in his ear. 95 00:06:16,959 --> 00:06:20,160 This is still a very young kid who Again, even if you don't 96 00:06:20,199 --> 00:06:24,279 think he's right in this situation, I would argue no one's right at this 97 00:06:24,319 --> 00:06:28,560 point because the Sixers overplayed their hands. Whatever Doc Rivers wants to claim he 98 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,639 was misquoted, even though you look at that after the Game seven verbatim him 99 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:35,399 basically saying I don't know if Ben sucks or not is essentially what it mounted 100 00:06:35,439 --> 00:06:40,639 to. No one has handled this situation properly. But we can't jump to 101 00:06:40,639 --> 00:06:44,120 this conclusion that he's just faking not being mentally ready. I could see, 102 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:46,800 after everything he's gone through, after all the voices that we know are in 103 00:06:46,879 --> 00:06:51,600 his ear, having to go back to an organization that James Harden trade aside. 104 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:55,279 Yes, there's this is why you get paid all this money in the 105 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:58,480 NBA is to be a part of those transactions. I know people like to 106 00:06:58,519 --> 00:07:01,560 think that they're above transaction. Is now too I understand that it can take 107 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,600 focus away from the actual game. I totally get that. I want to 108 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:10,120 talk about basketball just as much as the next person. I also appreciate transactions. 109 00:07:10,199 --> 00:07:13,680 I also appreciate the human element behind them now more so than I ever 110 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:15,360 had. There's a balance there. But part of the reason you're getting paid 111 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,439 all this money is because your name is going to be thrown and that's part 112 00:07:18,439 --> 00:07:24,360 of them. That being said, there's a difference between being involved in James 113 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,560 Harden rumors and then just knowing that your team wants to get rid of you, 114 00:07:27,639 --> 00:07:30,560 which is where I think Ben Simmons has been for quite some time, 115 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:32,399 at least since the end of last season. So you're dealing with that showing 116 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:35,879 up to a team that you don't think actually wants you long term. Now, 117 00:07:35,959 --> 00:07:41,399 maybe you're embarrassed, maybe you're fed up with your teammates because Joel Embiid, 118 00:07:41,399 --> 00:07:44,480 you know, and look Joel Beach response to when the report came out 119 00:07:44,519 --> 00:07:46,439 that Ben Simmons doesn't think they were a good fit or whatever. I don't 120 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,639 think that was Ben Simmons that leaked at himself and we gotta stop calling them 121 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:54,439 leaks. But like that's not that's there's so many people involved in that decision 122 00:07:54,439 --> 00:07:57,639 making part of the process. You're now going back to a team where it's 123 00:07:57,639 --> 00:08:00,240 hard to own up and say, maybe I went about this the wrong way, 124 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:01,720 or you're facing all these guys who know you don't want to be there, 125 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,160 or you're facing these guys for the first time after you made what they 126 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:11,839 deemed this mission critical season ending mistake against Atlanta and look, newsflash, terrible 127 00:08:11,839 --> 00:08:15,240 decision by Ben in the moment. I will argue until the end of time 128 00:08:15,519 --> 00:08:20,600 there's never one reason any team lost a game. One play does not decide 129 00:08:20,639 --> 00:08:24,079 an entire game. I still think that the criticism is fair game there, 130 00:08:24,399 --> 00:08:31,040 but there are issues like the Sixers had opportunities aside from that moment to win 131 00:08:31,079 --> 00:08:35,360 the series, to get back in that game specifically, I understand being frustrated 132 00:08:35,399 --> 00:08:37,480 with Ben Simmons. I understand, and I think you should be frustrated with 133 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:41,879 him and the Sixers, But the mental health stuff is where I draw the 134 00:08:41,919 --> 00:08:46,320 line with thinking he's faking it or making jokes about that. And my final 135 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:48,000 point this is a little bit longer than I want it to be, is 136 00:08:50,919 --> 00:08:54,399 I could see him not wanting to face the Philly fans and I'm not calling 137 00:08:54,399 --> 00:08:56,799 out the Sixers fan base. They are one of the most loyal, enthusiastic 138 00:08:56,799 --> 00:09:03,039 fan bases in the NBA, but they're probably one of the more you want 139 00:09:03,039 --> 00:09:05,200 to call them, honest or bruto, however you want to put it. 140 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:09,320 Now, you have to go to home games if they even play him at 141 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:13,759 home games at this point, and face them where they're probably going to boo 142 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,279 you. And they're not out there booing Darryl Mourray for his role in this. 143 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:20,120 They're not out there booing the Sixers because they failed the trade for James 144 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:22,320 Harden or because they failed to find a package for Ben Simmons. Yet there 145 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:26,120 I think most people, most fans have been pretty pro you know, NBA 146 00:09:26,159 --> 00:09:30,679 Twitter seems to be lean more towards Simmons, and then actual fans of the 147 00:09:31,039 --> 00:09:33,240 like the game or the Sixers seem to be more pro like, what the 148 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:37,039 fuck the Sixers are doing everything right? Just based off what I've seen in 149 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,159 I mentions. It just makes me wherever you fall in that it makes me 150 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:43,879 uncomfortable that we're okay still in this climate, not that we ever should have 151 00:09:43,919 --> 00:09:48,360 been, but as this has become more of a focus, more of a 152 00:09:48,399 --> 00:09:52,600 revelation and how important mental health is, especially for these athletes who are just 153 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:56,879 so exposed. I don't I'm very uncomfortable with the idea that we can jump 154 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:01,320 to jokes or to the conclusion that he's faking it when I think there are 155 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:07,639 legitimate, authentic, genuine reasons why he might not be mentally ready to play 156 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:11,279 right now. And this is me being talking from my perspective where I don't 157 00:10:11,279 --> 00:10:13,919 know that I could play in this situation, so I'm not trying to project 158 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,200 that onto him. I just see a scenario in which this is a real 159 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:24,200 thing that he is struggling with. I had no idea where you were going 160 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:26,840 to take this, because with the topic of Ben Simmons, there are a 161 00:10:26,879 --> 00:10:31,799 bajillion directions that you can go right now because so much is in flux. 162 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:37,480 And then you basically stole all of my talking points, So I agree wholeheartedly. 163 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:43,200 I was very uncomfortable when people were making jokes about the back injury, 164 00:10:43,039 --> 00:10:46,639 maybe air quotes around the back injury, because we don't really know, but 165 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:50,919 you know, if it's a real injury, which it very well could be 166 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:56,360 given his history with injuries, that's a bad look. And then the poking 167 00:10:56,399 --> 00:11:00,600 fun at the mental health stuff is an even bigger deal to me. And 168 00:11:00,799 --> 00:11:05,879 regardless of how that would have developed, if it does exist, it's at 169 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:11,320 least in some parts self inflicted, because he has, you know, put 170 00:11:11,399 --> 00:11:16,960 himself in this situation by refusing to you know, to find any compromise to 171 00:11:18,799 --> 00:11:22,080 play the style of basketball that people have wanted. The lack of development, 172 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,279 maybe the lack of work on his game, all of that, But it 173 00:11:24,279 --> 00:11:28,960 doesn't even matter, because self inflicted or not, this is still a young 174 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:35,440 human being who has had to deal with all sorts of vitriol just heaped upon 175 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:39,960 his shoulders for months on end, the subject of constant jokes, of constant 176 00:11:39,279 --> 00:11:43,759 scrutiny, of constant criticism. That's going to take its toll, regardless of 177 00:11:43,759 --> 00:11:46,919 whether you're the one who caused it or not. So yeah, like, 178 00:11:48,279 --> 00:11:50,600 of course he might not be mentally ready to play right now, and it's 179 00:11:50,639 --> 00:11:54,559 so easy to make the jokes. And I get the urges because we all 180 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:58,080 have to fight those back. To be honest, I mean, this, 181 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,960 this situation has devolved so much, But like that is a natural instinct to 182 00:12:03,399 --> 00:12:07,159 poke fun at the situation. But I think it's it's just important to take 183 00:12:07,159 --> 00:12:11,279 that step back and recognize all of the factors that lead us to get to 184 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:13,960 this point and then just have a little bit more grace than we like to 185 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,360 on Twitter. Yeah, and look, I have made jokes about it, 186 00:12:16,399 --> 00:12:20,840 and I guess I can admit to being a hypocrite. There's I had a 187 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:24,080 tweet I did. I don't even I muted it. It was like did 188 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:26,720 a fifteen hundred? It went viral? Is that what it's called viral? 189 00:12:28,159 --> 00:12:31,440 Where I had Ben Simmons and the Sixers handling the situation. They're both on 190 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:33,679 bikes, they stick sticks in the spokes of their bikes and they both fall 191 00:12:33,759 --> 00:12:37,440 off. That is like, if you want to say that that's wrong and 192 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:41,039 that I'm being a hypocrite for that, that's fine. But it's like I'm 193 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:45,279 poking fun at the general situation, which some extent is comical. And I 194 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:48,360 think again, the criticism of how both sides have handled this fair game, 195 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:52,919 the mental health stuff specifically, just makes me wildly uncomfortable. And you don't 196 00:12:52,919 --> 00:12:56,159 think the other thing is like the Sixers are still allowing him to be away 197 00:12:56,159 --> 00:13:00,919 from the team now through this, like they seem to be taking more seriously 198 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:03,639 unless this is a facade, which I am when it just comes to someone's 199 00:13:03,639 --> 00:13:09,279 mental health. I'm not going to claim that it is, but like they 200 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:11,559 seem to understand, like Joel Embiide even people were making fun that he slipped 201 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:15,399 it into the crowd before the Sixers first home game, like bennics Law brother. 202 00:13:15,519 --> 00:13:20,559 But it seems like the team is now understanding that maybe there is this 203 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:26,240 immense pressure on Ben Simmons or that he really isn't a not the best state 204 00:13:26,279 --> 00:13:30,080 of mind right now. If they can understand it, like we need to 205 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:33,960 be able to understand it too, And like that's where the I understand Twitter 206 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:35,200 is not the place for nuance, and I totally get that. I accept 207 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:39,440 that there are elements of me that embrace that. But like we got that 208 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:43,360 stuff is just so wildly uncomfortable and just bad bad faith right there with you. 209 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,159 But you're ready to jump into the mailbag with that out of the way, 210 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:52,000 Yeah, let's start with a question from doctor Ramblings. Before we get 211 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,080 there, I want to start with my own question for you. Wow, 212 00:13:54,279 --> 00:13:58,799 that was you just overrode a list You just cut in line. You didn't 213 00:13:58,799 --> 00:14:01,159 even let the listener go first. Because I know that the listener questions are 214 00:14:01,159 --> 00:14:03,600 going to be better than mine, so I just wanted to make sure that 215 00:14:03,639 --> 00:14:07,600 we got to my inevitably worst question. I've tag you in the mail bag 216 00:14:07,639 --> 00:14:11,759 tween to thank you for the question, like I do with everyone who asked 217 00:14:11,799 --> 00:14:15,720 as you should. As you should, But I wanted to quickly look back 218 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:20,720 at the twenty nineteen NBA draft where the top five picks where Zion Williamson, 219 00:14:20,879 --> 00:14:24,039 John Morant, R. J Barrett, Dejandre Hunter, and Darius Garland. 220 00:14:24,639 --> 00:14:28,919 And I'm curious, given the start that we've seen from John Morant this season, 221 00:14:30,519 --> 00:14:37,240 given the continuing health issues, the potential uneasy situation in New Orleans with 222 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:41,919 Zion, would you draft Zion and Jaw in that same order right now? 223 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,919 Have we reached have we reached a tipping point where like Morant, because it 224 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:52,720 was a legitimate question coming out of their rookie seasons, coming into this season, 225 00:14:52,919 --> 00:14:56,080 like John Morant has been good enough that you can make a realistic argument 226 00:14:56,120 --> 00:15:00,480 that he should be the top pick. And I'm curious if enough has happened 227 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:05,039 to this point that you're willing to kind of switch there, you mean, 228 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,960 flip flop Jaw or Zion. Yeah, should in a redraft, now, 229 00:15:09,159 --> 00:15:13,840 would you take John Morant or Zion Williamson at number one? I would still 230 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,600 still in a vacuum, like we're not saying that they're gonna end up in 231 00:15:16,639 --> 00:15:20,279 New Orleans. I would still take Zion, but I think we're probably coming 232 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:24,039 closer to it being a discussion. The primary reason for me why would just 233 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:28,960 be Zion's health, because when he was on the court last year, he 234 00:15:28,159 --> 00:15:31,519 probably should if he was played in more games, and even he maybe should, 235 00:15:31,559 --> 00:15:33,759 he might have just been a snub. He played like an ll NBA 236 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:39,120 guy, So he feels like that automatic r MBA type player. But it 237 00:15:39,159 --> 00:15:41,879 does if you're going to factor in health specifically, and there's a chance that 238 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:46,039 jaw gets better and his you know, start sitting his threes more and even 239 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,759 his mid range game is more efficient. It feels like it's more of a 240 00:15:48,799 --> 00:15:54,000 discussion now than I think most people would have assumed it would be at the 241 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:58,679 end of last season. Even yeah, I think I think I'm ready to 242 00:15:58,679 --> 00:16:03,200 make the switch. Honestly, Oh, I still think Zion is just this 243 00:16:03,279 --> 00:16:07,039 generational talent, like an easy All NBA inclusion. When he's healthy and playing 244 00:16:07,039 --> 00:16:11,320 at full strength, he has the higher ceiling, and you know, if 245 00:16:11,639 --> 00:16:15,519 if we're looking at it mathematically, like he's probably going to have a higher 246 00:16:15,639 --> 00:16:21,080 range of positive outcomes, but right now I also think that he has a 247 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:25,759 lot more lower outcomes. And I'm just you know, it's it's hard to 248 00:16:25,799 --> 00:16:27,720 read in like this is a good way to come out of the Ben Simmons 249 00:16:27,759 --> 00:16:33,399 discussion into this because I think they're they're related to some extent, Like it's 250 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:37,600 hard to read into what exactly his mentality is. Like we know that he 251 00:16:37,679 --> 00:16:41,240 has showed up to camp out of shape multiple times. We know that he 252 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:47,399 had this foot injury and reportedly balloon to over three hundred pounds during the recovery 253 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:52,240 process and didn't tell the team about it and does not look ready to play. 254 00:16:52,279 --> 00:16:56,080 We don't have a timetable for his return, and I just I keep 255 00:16:56,159 --> 00:17:00,519 getting these like later career Shack vibes where he knew he was that good and 256 00:17:00,559 --> 00:17:06,480 could play himself into shape during the regular season, and that has to matter. 257 00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:10,640 I think so, like peak Zion is still unbelievable, But given the 258 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:15,599 importance of the point guard position in today's NBA, given the control of the 259 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:19,440 offense, we're seeing from Jaw through just a few games during this now in 260 00:17:19,519 --> 00:17:26,000 progress campaign. I think I'm ready to flip flop them. But I also 261 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:32,359 I do that fully cognizant of the risk because if Zion is healthy, if 262 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:37,559 Zion is motivated, that has the potential to look really bad. Yeah. 263 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:41,920 I think that's a spicy take, not an illegitimate one at this point, 264 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:45,720 And where I would provide the pushback is how much of this is just can 265 00:17:45,759 --> 00:17:48,920 he plead being twenty one years old? And like, how in tune? 266 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,960 I know you aren't a professional athlete, but how in tune were you with 267 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:56,640 your diet and your body? I'm still not disciplined? Were you? But 268 00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:00,519 that's my point is there's a chance and I'm not saying the injuries that could 269 00:18:00,519 --> 00:18:03,000 be related, it could be not related to it. How much? How 270 00:18:03,079 --> 00:18:07,160 much are the Pelicans responsible here? If they're responsible at all for just like 271 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:11,640 the you know, would this are reviewing his injury situation differently if there was 272 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:15,640 more transparency would be my question to that. But you could fast forward. 273 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:19,480 I can envision a scenario where as Zion grows and matures and is in better 274 00:18:19,559 --> 00:18:23,440 shape, like even if it maybe takes three or four years or something, 275 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:29,480 we're talking about a generational guy. The flip side of that argument would be 276 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,359 there are a lot of people that subscribe to the idea because he's built so 277 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:36,519 uniquely even if Zion's in peak shape, like just looking at peak Shack, 278 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:41,400 that his prime could technically be shorter because of how much of a of an 279 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:45,599 anomaly he is, in which case that is inherently gonna make John Morant more 280 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:51,160 appealing, because would you rather have let's say ten a decade of MVP caliber 281 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:56,920 play or twelve to thirteen years of second team All NBA. I'm just I'm 282 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:00,519 throwing scenario right right, Yeah, And I think there is something to the 283 00:19:00,559 --> 00:19:04,119 idea that his frame is uniquely built and it is set up in a way 284 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:08,759 that is going to lead to injuries because he plays with so much force generated 285 00:19:10,039 --> 00:19:11,279 and it's going to take a toll on the joints, it's gonna take a 286 00:19:11,319 --> 00:19:15,759 toll on the feet, and his frame is not built to be under two 287 00:19:15,839 --> 00:19:21,079 hundred eighty pounds or whatever if he's gonna play with the powerful style with which 288 00:19:21,079 --> 00:19:23,599 he operates. So to me, I'm kind of looking at it like if 289 00:19:23,599 --> 00:19:29,000 we assume health, I still don't think that you're gonna consistently get more than 290 00:19:29,039 --> 00:19:33,279 sixty five to seventy games from Zion during an average season, even when he's 291 00:19:33,319 --> 00:19:38,079 fully functioning. And would you rather have seventy games of Zion or eighty games 292 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:44,640 of John Moran? And I think that the scales are kind of tipping towards 293 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,720 the Morant side right now, because I don't even know if we're gonna get 294 00:19:47,759 --> 00:19:55,240 seventy Bookmark this take at Frammel zero nine. Again, I fully acknowledge just 295 00:19:55,400 --> 00:20:00,000 how poorly this could age. Because Zion is a generational talent when he's able 296 00:20:00,079 --> 00:20:04,000 to operate, like once he started running the show and running pick and rolls 297 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:10,359 this past season, like it was transcendent. He was unbelievably good. You 298 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:12,519 can make a legitimate case that he's going to push his way into the top 299 00:20:12,559 --> 00:20:18,160 ten player conversation, But that precludes availability, and that that has to matter. 300 00:20:19,279 --> 00:20:22,079 I still think, like I need to see how this season unvolves. 301 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:26,440 Probably, I still think we're just a scotch away from it being that far. 302 00:20:26,559 --> 00:20:29,079 It's too early for this. Like I said, I think the take 303 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:34,039 is spicy, not illegitimate at this point. Now, can Doctor Ramblings ask 304 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:40,240 his question? Damn I guess yeah, if we don't want to Doctor Ramblings 305 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:42,279 asked, the Nuggets are twenty five to one for a championship. I don't 306 00:20:42,319 --> 00:20:45,519 see a team in the West being a runaway favorite. Why not the Nuggets 307 00:20:45,519 --> 00:20:51,599 if Jamal Murray comes back healthy. Those odds seem juicy to me. I 308 00:20:51,599 --> 00:20:55,599 would jump all over those odds. I think the Nuggets are an eminently reasonable 309 00:20:55,680 --> 00:21:00,079 title pick this season. But I have a feeling that baked into those odds 310 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:06,559 are the uncertainty because Jamal Murray is ultimately returning from an ACL injury at an 311 00:21:06,599 --> 00:21:10,400 unspecified point in time, we don't know if it's going to happen shortly after 312 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:14,079 the All Star break with five games to go and have a limited ramp up 313 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:18,279 period before the playoffs. And as good as the Denver rotation is without Jamal 314 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:22,359 Murray, I mean Monte Morris, Facundo Compazzo, Austin Rivers, Bones Highland, 315 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:26,519 Like that's a good backup guard rotation, but this team isn't the same 316 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:30,279 if Jamal Murray isn't available, and that has to be baked into the odds. 317 00:21:30,319 --> 00:21:32,880 Now, if you want to say, like, yeah, those seem 318 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,079 pretty juicy, Like I'm gonna jump all over those then go right ahead, 319 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:40,799 because at peak powers, this Denver team is one hundred percent capable of winning 320 00:21:40,799 --> 00:21:45,920 a title. Yokich just continues to be unbelievable against the Spurs on Friday Night 321 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,519 thirty two, sixteen and seven, and it looked casual. It didn't look 322 00:21:48,519 --> 00:21:52,720 like a standout performance. You saw a few of the Sambar shuffles. You 323 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:56,440 saw him get exposed on the interior a little bit during the first half when 324 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,640 he wasn't fully engaged, but in the second half when he was there like 325 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,599 an unstoppable force. And there is no counter to him right now, and 326 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,519 he could easily carry a team to the playoffs through the playoffs even without Murray. 327 00:22:07,519 --> 00:22:11,359 But you don't want to bet on the Nuggets that whatever those odds were. 328 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,440 I think twenty five to one is what you said. If Murray isn't 329 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,240 there and right now, like we have, we have no knowledge of when 330 00:22:18,319 --> 00:22:21,839 exactly he'll be back on the court, what he's going to look like, 331 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:25,400 what kind of ramp up period is going to be necessary, and the Western 332 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:30,119 Conference is stocked with contenders, I would agree with the thing you said. 333 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,200 They're also Yokas through that pass where he like bent corners essentially like just and 334 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:38,279 then Porter just bricked it, right, But the past itself was incredible. 335 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:42,400 I think it comes down to whether Jamal Murray is gonna be available. The 336 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,039 other thing, he's just like what does he look like after torn acl not 337 00:22:45,079 --> 00:22:48,720 playing for almost a year. Because if if Jamal Murray was healthy, had 338 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:53,079 the Nuggets begun this season at full strength, the team's at full strength. 339 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,920 So we'll include the nets here, Like, let's pretend that Kyrie Irving isn't 340 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:02,160 a dumbass. You I don't know capable of doing that. You probably have 341 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,400 the nets, or I shouldn't say dumb ass, that's rude, contrarian without 342 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:10,799 a cause? Is the bay he's a dumb ass, So the nets, 343 00:23:10,839 --> 00:23:14,400 and I think I would probably put the full strength Like that's how perfect this 344 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,640 team would seem on paper with a healthy Jamal Murray. Right if you want 345 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:21,400 to make the gamble that Jamal Murray will be available, and let's say like 346 00:23:21,559 --> 00:23:25,720 eighty percent of the Jamal Murray that they need for sure, there's also an 347 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:29,200 out. Could they win the title without him? I think so? So 348 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,559 why that's how wide open it is right now? I think like I think 349 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,759 the Nuggets his fourth best player. If you're looking at the championship discussion. 350 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:42,519 I have not made an official title pick and I'm not prepared to yet because 351 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:48,160 it's just a weird season where there are so many teams that are are fully 352 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,680 competitive and capable of getting there, but like Denver might be my leading choice. 353 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,319 Oh that's interesting with see, I need to see Jamal Murray before I 354 00:23:56,319 --> 00:23:59,400 could get there. Full disclosure. If we were doing stock Up stock Down, 355 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,759 which maybe that's the separate podcast stock Up stock Down on our preseason award 356 00:24:02,799 --> 00:24:07,279 picks that we did not put on Hardware Knox, yet I had the Sons 357 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:11,200 as my title pick. This was post Kyrie news. Otherwise I would have 358 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,519 assumed that it's the Nets. I would probably say my stock feels a little 359 00:24:14,519 --> 00:24:17,640 bit down on that team seem to have figured out like their offense, and 360 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:22,839 they're gonna need either put a bunch more consistent pressure on the rim or get 361 00:24:22,839 --> 00:24:26,160 people to start hitting these pull up threes. My point being it's so wide 362 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:30,240 open to where if you told me that the Nuggets won it this season without 363 00:24:30,319 --> 00:24:33,240 Jamal Murray, I wouldn't would I assume that, yes, the Nets didn't 364 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:37,319 get Kyrie Irving back at some point, I might, but that does not 365 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:41,920 seem blasphemous by by any stretch. Yeah, so yes, jump all over 366 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,839 those odds if you're feeling intrigued at all by the Nuggets, because they are 367 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:52,279 favorable if we assume that we're going to get anything for Murray. The next 368 00:24:52,319 --> 00:24:59,960 question comes from Thomas Rodriguez asked Tyler hero plus minus versus other third year player. 369 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,440 I don't really know how to put this verses, but Tyler heroes a 370 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,960 plus twelve through his first three games this season. I think it's been three 371 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:11,920 games. I didn't check that he is within the top six of third year 372 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:18,160 players. Can you guess which third year player ranks first? I have no 373 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,599 idea. I don't really pay attention to plus minus because it's so misleading. 374 00:25:21,799 --> 00:25:26,079 It's misleading, but when it's such a small sample size, I'm not like 375 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,799 net rating would just be through two or three games just seems like a little 376 00:25:29,799 --> 00:25:33,839 bit ridiculous. Can you get Oh, you're not even an adventure? No, 377 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,559 I'm not even an adventure I guess, so technically, I know some 378 00:25:37,559 --> 00:25:41,079 people are going to provide a pushback on this, but it's Michael Porter Jr. 379 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:45,759 And I think the argument there would be, okay, well that he 380 00:25:45,839 --> 00:25:48,599 missed his rookie season, YadA, YadA, but he's the third year player. 381 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:52,799 And speaking of misleading, like his game against the Spurs, the same 382 00:25:52,799 --> 00:25:56,640 one that we talked all this praise for Yoki Chen was as bad as you're 383 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:03,880 ever going to see? Fair enough? Can you I need to get Can 384 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,000 you guess who was in second place? Are you even? You don't even 385 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:08,960 want to venture? Yeah? I'm not going to venture? Yes, all 386 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:11,519 right, that's I find that like a little bit rude, but that's fine. 387 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:19,240 Second is Terrence Man? All right? Fourth, and this is just 388 00:26:19,279 --> 00:26:25,160 what I wanted to get down to. Is RJ. Barrett proving great for 389 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:26,960 all that he's the greatest player alive? It sounds about right. But let's 390 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,880 let's talk about Tyler Hero because it seemed like he, uh, he was 391 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:37,200 due for a breakout following just the magnificent preseason efforts, even if his sophomore 392 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:42,000 season was a bit disappointing and he has come out of the gates swinging, 393 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:47,720 can I can we can we talk about that for a minute. What is 394 00:26:47,759 --> 00:26:52,720 disappointing about a second year player his age twenty one? Season, averaging fifteen 395 00:26:52,799 --> 00:27:00,359 point point one points three, shooting thirty six percent from three on I think 396 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,599 seven attempts per thirty six minutes of six and a half times per thirty six 397 00:27:03,599 --> 00:27:07,680 minutes, and shooting forty nine point eight percent on Tuesday. It's pointing about 398 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,440 it's relative to expectations because coming off of his rookie season, which finished in 399 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:15,960 the bubble where he put all of the shot making skills on display, a 400 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:22,160 full fledged breakout was expected his sophomore season, and it was dialed up another 401 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:27,839 notch because the Heat allegedly refused to include him in trade packages. Were those 402 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:33,359 expectations unrealistic? Sure? And you know we've talked about this before when I 403 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,559 tried to continue to call him overrated when he's probably not there anymore, because 404 00:27:37,559 --> 00:27:41,680 the expectations dwindled following that lack of growth. The sophomore season was fine, 405 00:27:41,799 --> 00:27:47,680 like he was a useful piece. But now like he has it looks to 406 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:52,759 me like he is fully blossoming. This is the player we expected to see 407 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:56,839 coming out of that bubble experience, where not only is he this aggressive shot 408 00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:03,640 hunter, but he looks more capable of finding open teammates when he draws a 409 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:07,559 little bit of extra defensive attention. He seems to be capable of creating for 410 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,440 himself at every level of the half court game, like this is this is 411 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:15,400 what the Heat wanted to see. Again, if they truly did not include 412 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:22,039 him in trade packages for notable star players the outlook. So anyone who listens 413 00:28:22,039 --> 00:28:26,839 to the podcast regularly understands that. I think that was more so the Heat, 414 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:32,799 recognizing me, could not acquire James Harden, so he might. I 415 00:28:32,839 --> 00:28:37,279 made sure to say allegedly yeah multiple times. The expectations then, I like 416 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,359 if his sophomore season, I think he got valuable reps, is like a 417 00:28:40,359 --> 00:28:42,720 point guard, which is probably gonna make him more suited to win sixth Man 418 00:28:42,759 --> 00:28:45,559 of the Year this season. He was not my six Man of the Year 419 00:28:45,559 --> 00:28:49,039 pick. I'm kind of looking back, I wish I would have picked him. 420 00:28:49,039 --> 00:28:51,799 Do you know who I picked to win sixth Man of the Year or 421 00:28:51,839 --> 00:28:53,759 should I just save that for if we do the stock up stock down past 422 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:56,200 save it? Okay? I'll tell you off air, though, because it's 423 00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:02,079 going to excite you. I think so I'm with you, and I think 424 00:29:02,119 --> 00:29:03,440 that this is gonna end up being a breakout year for him because the heat 425 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:08,079 are also better stuited, especially when Kyle Lowry's there to make life a little 426 00:29:08,079 --> 00:29:11,920 bit easier on him. Just looking at what Kyle Lowry can do from the 427 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,559 point of attack, he's more of a three. He's a higher end threat 428 00:29:15,559 --> 00:29:17,960 than a ground draggitch, and you could also argue that he's just more available. 429 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:19,200 I love the idea of playing Hero and Lowry together, where I think 430 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:25,359 with Drag and Hero that becomes an issue defensively. Anyway, this is what 431 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:26,720 he's been spectacular to start the year. Nothing to disagree. I just have 432 00:29:26,759 --> 00:29:33,000 a fun stat for you. He's only played in two games. Only one 433 00:29:33,039 --> 00:29:37,240 player in the NBA is averaging more made off the dribble jumpers per game right 434 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,160 now than Tyler Hero. Do you care to venture a guess who that player 435 00:29:40,279 --> 00:29:45,079 is? Kevin Durant. You know Steph Curry had that trash game where he 436 00:29:45,119 --> 00:29:49,799 posted a trip forget. So he's having He's having a great year, and 437 00:29:49,839 --> 00:29:52,319 I think that he's gonna end up being I don't know if he's going to 438 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:56,759 be a star, but like this is someone who I don't think he's going 439 00:29:56,799 --> 00:30:00,599 to shoot fifty eight percent on twos forever Pretty's shooting like thirty six on off 440 00:30:00,599 --> 00:30:03,240 the dribble threes right now. I think that's a sustainable number and that this 441 00:30:03,279 --> 00:30:07,519 is someone who could run second units. Maybe he's part of your closing lineup, 442 00:30:07,559 --> 00:30:10,079 depending on whether you want PJ. Tucker on the quarter or Duncan Robinson 443 00:30:10,079 --> 00:30:12,400 on the quarter or whoever. But he's good and he looks more confident when 444 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,400 he gets into the lane as a decision maker as well. Twenty eight and 445 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,680 a half points per game, it's obviously going to regress a little bit, 446 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,720 but at the same time, like I'm not sure by how much it's going 447 00:30:23,759 --> 00:30:30,319 to aggress, because this Heat team is still built to need someone like him 448 00:30:30,319 --> 00:30:37,279 who can generate offense from anywhere. Ideally, you're not asking Jimmy Butler to 449 00:30:37,319 --> 00:30:40,599 score twenty eight points a game. You're not asking Damn Auto Bio to be 450 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,519 a twenty point per game score. Kyle Lowry has always been more valuable in 451 00:30:44,599 --> 00:30:48,720 areas other than scoring, and I think Hero is fully primed to get enough 452 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:52,160 opportunities where like you told me, he finished the season averaging upwards of twenty 453 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:57,279 a game off the bench. I think I can see that somewhat. I 454 00:30:57,359 --> 00:31:00,519 can see it. I'm just curious to see that. What does it look 455 00:31:00,519 --> 00:31:03,160 like when Kyle Lowry's really in his bag and not taking eighty shot eight shot 456 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:07,440 attempts in the one game that he plays. Let's move on to this next 457 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,880 question, though. Is there from Aaron S. Nelson, is there a 458 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:15,000 way to determine good mid range versus bad mid range shots? And I feel 459 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,599 like I have a very simple answer if I could go first here. Absolutely, 460 00:31:18,839 --> 00:31:22,599 if you're taking a catch and shoot two pointer, it's a bad mid 461 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,680 range shot. If it's a self created mid range jumper where you're dribbling into 462 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,200 it, I don't necessarily means that it's good, but that's more of an 463 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,079 acceptable mid range shot to me. I don't think the mid range is dead. 464 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,160 There's definitely a place for it. I think the Marjorros and certainly showing 465 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:41,119 that with the way he's punished defenses and mismatches with the Bulls so far this 466 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,799 season and how that's opened up the offense for everybody else. But if the 467 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:51,519 end of your possession concludes with a catch and shoot mid range attempt, there's 468 00:31:51,559 --> 00:31:56,119 something off with your spacing, and you have also forfeited a more lucrative opportunity 469 00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:04,039 by having that catch and shoot player staffed beyond the three point line. Even 470 00:32:04,079 --> 00:32:07,039 then, I think it's situational. I mean, if you if you're the 471 00:32:07,079 --> 00:32:10,519 Atlanta Hawks and you're running out of lineup with Gorgi Jang, you probably don't 472 00:32:10,599 --> 00:32:14,960 want him stepping out to the three point line too frequently. And if he 473 00:32:15,039 --> 00:32:19,160 happens to knock down a catch and shoot elbow jumper, which he's made plenty 474 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,200 of times throughout his career, it might not necessarily be the end of the 475 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,160 world. I think ultimately the answer to this question is that it's entirely situational. 476 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:30,680 It's far too much of an overly simplified answer to just be like, 477 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:35,039 all mid range of shots are bad because they're not. Like we've seen Chris 478 00:32:35,079 --> 00:32:37,240 Paul make a living out of snaking out of the pick and roll and hitting 479 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:42,200 an elbow pull up. We've seen Kevin Durant shoot over everyone. There are 480 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,039 so many players DeMar de Rosen, and the list goes on and on who 481 00:32:45,359 --> 00:32:51,720 can capably operate in that zone. And even if it lowers your expected points 482 00:32:51,759 --> 00:32:54,759 per possession, because you know, even if you shoot shoot the three pointers 483 00:32:54,799 --> 00:33:00,920 with a slightly lower accuracy, rate, like it's going to yield more points 484 00:33:00,079 --> 00:33:04,640 per possession just by virtue of being worth three points to set of two. 485 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,960 But at the same time, if you're never taking any mid range shots see 486 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:13,319 the Houston Rockets, then defenses don't even have to worry about covering those areas. 487 00:33:13,319 --> 00:33:17,039 Like if you do put enough pressure on an opposing defense by showing that 488 00:33:17,079 --> 00:33:22,160 you're willing to take the occasional mid ranger if it's open, if it's the 489 00:33:22,279 --> 00:33:25,119 right player taking it, then all of a sudden, you force the defense 490 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:30,359 to have to focus on more areas, and then you open up better shots 491 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:35,240 from more efficient areas. It's all interconnected, and cutting out an entire section 492 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,920 of the court is more detrimental, even if it leads to more advantageous shots 493 00:33:38,519 --> 00:33:45,720 from a pure efficiency standpoint. If you want to go with nuance, you'll 494 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,839 like Adam Vans are better. But if you prefer the blanketed, sweeping, 495 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,680 oversimplified statement, you'll side with mine. I would agree with you there, 496 00:33:52,759 --> 00:34:00,119 but there's I hate that mid range has just been ascribed as negative connotation and 497 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:05,079 completely where it's any mid range where demarda Rosen and less of a player because 498 00:34:05,279 --> 00:34:07,279 he takes a lot of mid rangers. No, you know who's less of 499 00:34:07,319 --> 00:34:08,880 a player, because Russell Westbrook will take a lot of mid rangers and then 500 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:13,480 miss them. At least the verston of Russell Westbrook before this year. Now 501 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,639 it seems like he's missing more threes. But I digress there. It's Demarta 502 00:34:16,679 --> 00:34:21,880 Rosen as a player is probably more difficult to build your team around because of 503 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,920 the limitations on his overall range. It's not because he's a good or mid 504 00:34:27,039 --> 00:34:31,559 range heavy scorer. In general. Most of the time you hear anybody say 505 00:34:32,039 --> 00:34:37,280 the analytics say blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, they don't really know 506 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:44,719 what they're talking about, because analytics don't really say anything so much as give 507 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:49,599 you the data that you can then apply with the proper context in the proper 508 00:34:49,639 --> 00:34:52,159 situation. So if anybody's like, oh, analytics say that you should just 509 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:58,639 only take three pointers, No, analytics say mid rangers are bad. No, 510 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:05,039 they really don't. Next question from Kim are the Chicago Bulls back up? 511 00:35:07,079 --> 00:35:10,239 I like this Chicago Bulls team. I was. I think I was 512 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:15,400 pretty firmly on the over whatever it was set at when we did our over 513 00:35:15,559 --> 00:35:19,599 under podcast. But like it's a fun team. I think that there are 514 00:35:19,639 --> 00:35:25,440 still going to be major defensive concerns, but it's a dynamic offense. Lonzo 515 00:35:25,519 --> 00:35:30,719 Ball is fitting in really well right off the bat. Patrick Williams continues to 516 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:36,760 be super intriguing. I don't know that I would go so far as saying 517 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:38,480 that the Bulls are a playoff lock, but I'd be pretty surprised if they're 518 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:43,400 not in the play in conversation, so I have you as under for the 519 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:49,039 Bulls as you lie to our listeners there apparently, so the things that I 520 00:35:49,039 --> 00:35:52,800 want to see I already mentioned. I like the opportunities the Rosen's creating for 521 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:57,519 others, and he's been able to punish some mismatches and gives Chicago another ball 522 00:35:57,559 --> 00:36:00,599 handler in the half court. I think that's important. I want to keep 523 00:36:00,599 --> 00:36:04,800 some things in perspective. They have beaten the Pistons twice and the Pelicans, 524 00:36:05,119 --> 00:36:08,840 so that's something that it doesn't concern me. They're beating the teams that they 525 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:13,679 should beat, but like, let's keep that in perspective here. The other 526 00:36:13,679 --> 00:36:17,039 thing with Chicago is their offense still has a ways to go. They're getting 527 00:36:17,079 --> 00:36:20,920 to the free throw line in a really good clip. They are about lead 528 00:36:21,039 --> 00:36:25,199 average in offensive rating through three games. They're not shooting the ball particularly well. 529 00:36:25,199 --> 00:36:28,519 What's really been good for them, and I think this is a product 530 00:36:28,519 --> 00:36:30,880 of who they're playing, where the Pelicans don't seem like they have a primary 531 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:35,599 ball handler right now, aside from anyone other than Brandon Ingram, which has 532 00:36:35,599 --> 00:36:37,760 been a problem, and then the Pistons just being the Pistons. The Bulls 533 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:43,880 are third in points allowed per possession. They are forcing a ton of turnovers, 534 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,800 their third and opponent turnover rate, sixth an opponent affective field goal percentage, 535 00:36:47,079 --> 00:36:51,760 and their second an opponent free throw attempt rate. I just looking at 536 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:55,280 the personnel, I'll be shocked if they're a top five defensive team all season. 537 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:59,320 I think it's good that they're beating the teams they need to beat, 538 00:36:59,679 --> 00:37:01,519 but I still need to see more from this team. I do think though, 539 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:05,719 if you're looking at their first few games and saying it's the offense that 540 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,440 needs to figure it out a little bit still, that's I don't know if 541 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:13,320 that's the ideal scenario, but if that's what you're saying after a three and 542 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,159 oh start, and I know that their schedule has been fairly light. That's 543 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:20,000 you know, that's fine because I think you look at this team and you're 544 00:37:20,039 --> 00:37:23,679 like, Okay, Zach Lavine shooting the ball pretty well. The Marta Rozen 545 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:28,239 has been you know, fine, you're probably a lonzo ball has been good 546 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,079 for them. I think Vooge will shoot the ball better. So like, 547 00:37:31,119 --> 00:37:35,039 there are you know, there are things to like, but I do also 548 00:37:35,119 --> 00:37:37,000 get a little bit concerned. It's nice to see Javonte Green so far I 549 00:37:37,079 --> 00:37:40,320 have like a regular role, but sort of once you get past their top 550 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:45,039 six guys, I just have a lot of questions when you're leaning on an 551 00:37:45,159 --> 00:37:49,239 Alisa Johnson or even a Javonte Green at Troy Troy Brown Junior, etcetera, 552 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,159 etcetera, etcetera. There are definitely some ugly lineups that they can throw out 553 00:37:52,199 --> 00:37:57,360 there. The rolling team rating that we use at NBA Math, which looks 554 00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:01,719 at a team's offensive offense of a defensive performance relative to the league average, 555 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:06,000 and then also adjusts for home and a way back to backs, the difficulty 556 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,320 of the schedule, and all that over a team's last twenty games. So 557 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:14,280 right now, the data points are for the Bulls are based on three games 558 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:19,440 from this season and seventeen from the last season, but they've sneakily been a 559 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:27,840 pretty league average team since roughly late February this year. So this team has 560 00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:32,800 already shown that when you adjust for those contextual factors, that it is at 561 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:38,000 least competitive, and this roster is unquestionably better than it was last season. 562 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:43,960 There's more upside, there's more top level talent, so I don't know how 563 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,679 exactly it's going to pan out again. There are still some ugly lineups, 564 00:38:46,679 --> 00:38:52,440 there are some depth questions, there's some scheme fit questions with so many players 565 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:57,480 who operate best with the ball in their hands. But this team isn't bad, 566 00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,440 which is a lot more than we can say about some of the Bulls 567 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:04,280 teams of the last few years. That was the way to put it kindly. 568 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:06,480 The other thing to know, too, is that I don't I don't 569 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:08,159 really think that this has impacted their offense too much. But Kobe White has 570 00:39:08,199 --> 00:39:13,159 yet to play as he's dealing with the shoulder injury. This next question comes 571 00:39:13,159 --> 00:39:16,519 from Andre, and I'm assuming that this is this person. They might apologize 572 00:39:16,519 --> 00:39:20,800 if I got it wrong. What's the most interesting stat you have ever seen? 573 00:39:22,039 --> 00:39:27,320 Wow? I have one. If you're ready talk about a tough question 574 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:31,480 when you did not see the question before starting to record. So if you're 575 00:39:31,519 --> 00:39:36,840 ready, like, go for it. This is this is just like my 576 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,920 favorite stud of all time because it was put on a TV broadcast. It 577 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:45,760 is so utterly ridiculous and cherry picked, but I respect it. Thad Young 578 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:51,400 pa broadcast graphic it was from I think it was when they were Fox Sports. 579 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,360 I don't think there's still Fox Sports players with eight hundred games, at 580 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:59,599 least eight hundred games under their belt to average at least thirteen point five points, 581 00:40:00,079 --> 00:40:04,639 five point nine rebounds, one point four steals, shoot forty nine percent 582 00:40:04,679 --> 00:40:07,679 from the floor, and thirty percent on three pointers. So those are the 583 00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:13,599 benchmarks. Is just whenever you're using the decimals of thirteen point five, five 584 00:40:13,679 --> 00:40:16,000 point nine, one point four. Now, the company he joined at the 585 00:40:16,039 --> 00:40:21,400 time was Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, and Lebron James, 586 00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:25,960 and there were stag Young. I respect the hell out of whoever's call it 587 00:40:27,079 --> 00:40:30,960 was to put that up on the broadcast. That is my favorite stat I've 588 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:36,159 ever seen because it was just on TV and like so utterly ridiculous and those 589 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:37,719 in the end, those are my favorite stats. There are stats that I 590 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:42,639 lean on more than most when you're actually looking to instruct and inform yourself. 591 00:40:43,119 --> 00:40:46,719 However, the cherry pick stat like the cherry pick stats are where it's like 592 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:51,440 you look at, Okay, the someone posted like Lebron's record over the past 593 00:40:51,519 --> 00:40:54,519 year, or Lebron's record this season without Alice Caruso, Alice Cruzol's record without 594 00:40:54,559 --> 00:40:58,440 Lebron, Like, those stats are funny to me. But this one was 595 00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:02,880 just so ridiculous and did in such what you would think is a formal or 596 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:07,039 official environment. I just I have no choice but to respect the hell out 597 00:41:07,039 --> 00:41:10,639 of it. It's still to date like the favorite, like my favorite thing 598 00:41:10,639 --> 00:41:15,239 that I've ever seen, just because it's so ridiculous. I've got one, 599 00:41:15,679 --> 00:41:17,760 don't. I don't know that I would say this is the most interesting stat 600 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:22,239 I've ever seen, because again, like that's that's tough top of mind. 601 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:27,000 But I do have one, and it's historical for you. Larry Bird played 602 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:31,360 exactly one hundred different players at least thirty times during his career. He had 603 00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:37,159 a winning record against all of them but seven Byron Scott, Magic Johnson, 604 00:41:37,559 --> 00:41:43,960 Michael Cooper, James Worthy, Kareem Abdul Jabbar and Kurt Rambis are the first 605 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,960 six, and they might have had something in common, like all playing on 606 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:53,480 that dynastic Los Angeles Lakers team. And then Jack Sikma who did not. 607 00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:59,920 I mean that is actually like an interesting stat It is so Jack Sick, 608 00:42:00,559 --> 00:42:05,000 for the record, just owns Larry Bird on the basketball court. Yeah, 609 00:42:05,039 --> 00:42:07,480 I don't know, was there ever any doubt, Like if you don't like 610 00:42:07,559 --> 00:42:12,039 it is a travesty that Jack Sigma did not take Larry Bird's place on the 611 00:42:12,119 --> 00:42:15,199 NBA seventy five list. I can't believe Dwight Howard didn't make that list. 612 00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:19,039 I don't really want to waste breath on reacting to it, but yeah, 613 00:42:19,679 --> 00:42:23,159 that's just like do we forget how good prime Dwight Howard was. That was 614 00:42:23,199 --> 00:42:27,199 a bad exclusion. There are a lot of There are a number of bad 615 00:42:27,199 --> 00:42:31,079 exclusions because do we want to dive into this rabbit hole. I'm just I'm 616 00:42:31,159 --> 00:42:37,199 over. I don't like the holier than now responses to the snub where it's 617 00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:38,760 like, we get it, Dwight Howard is off. But then there are 618 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:45,039 people that are just like so like angry or on a soapbox about it, 619 00:42:45,079 --> 00:42:49,840 like that's the stuff that that's the discourse I can stand. It's like, 620 00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,960 spare me your holier than now stick. You're almost as bad as the people 621 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:58,000 that snubbed Dwight Howard in that case. But there are obviously the jitimate qualms. 622 00:42:58,039 --> 00:43:00,159 And I think you look at the panel. I think it's cool that 623 00:43:00,199 --> 00:43:02,320 they were you know, president and former players on it, but there are 624 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:07,760 people on that panel where it's like what are they doing on there? Right? 625 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:12,920 Yeah? And like I believe like Jannis was on the panel, and 626 00:43:13,039 --> 00:43:17,039 nothing but love for Yannis, but like he also hadn't watched the NBA until 627 00:43:17,039 --> 00:43:22,880 like the mid two thousands when he learned in a internet cafe, like who 628 00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:28,960 Kevin Durant was midway through his career and like you know, again like no 629 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,239 offense to the guy, but you're not going to learn about the entirety of 630 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:37,840 NBA history well enough to formulate a list of seventy five players within the last 631 00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:45,239 decade like that. I I yeah, I think if you include players at 632 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:46,920 all, and this would just be maybe I'm wrong, and maybe there are 633 00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:51,239 maybe players were able to separate themselves they're already members of the media and remove 634 00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:54,639 their playing days. I would still think that players are gonna favor others who 635 00:43:54,639 --> 00:44:00,159 played during their era absolutely versus you know, like Steph is gonna favor or 636 00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:02,960 game over maybe prim Dwight like that, Maybe that's too close, like Steph 637 00:44:04,039 --> 00:44:08,079 is gonna favor game over James Worthy or whatever. I also just I struggle 638 00:44:08,119 --> 00:44:14,679 with any sort of list like this when there isn't any inclusion criteria. I 639 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:19,760 don't really know what the ranking yeah right, And I don't like, are 640 00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:24,079 we looking at the players who are fully integral to the history of basketball, 641 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:30,239 in which case like sure Dave de Buscher belongs, Bill Sharman belongs. Are 642 00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:34,239 we looking at the best careers because then like they probably don't. Are we 643 00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:39,199 looking at the best pure basketball players? And because that isn't clear from the 644 00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:45,480 get go, it's just hard to know well enough to really care who was 645 00:44:45,519 --> 00:44:47,480 your biggest snub? Was it Dwight Howard? Yeah, it's it's Dwight Howard. 646 00:44:47,519 --> 00:44:52,599 But I think that if you aren't mentioning Poalcasol and Alex English as significant 647 00:44:52,599 --> 00:44:55,760 snubs, then I don't really care about your opinion on this anyway. I 648 00:44:57,079 --> 00:45:00,000 wasn't to see the number of people that seemed outraged by Kyrie Irving not being 649 00:45:00,039 --> 00:45:04,920 on it. I don't get that one. Like to me, you know, 650 00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:09,079 like you can you can come up with name after name, Adrian Danley, 651 00:45:09,199 --> 00:45:13,559 Kevin Johnson, Pau Gasol, Dwight Howard, Bob Lanier who was actually 652 00:45:13,639 --> 00:45:16,119 on the voting panel, Alex English. I would say artist Gilmore deserves a 653 00:45:16,159 --> 00:45:20,559 lot more love in these conversations, like the list goes on and on and 654 00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:24,639 you can find players to remove, but like I don't really get the argument 655 00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:30,400 for Clay Thompson, for Kyrie Irving. Here's here's here's a hot take that 656 00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:32,920 I was actually discussing with friend of the podcast and a friend of both of 657 00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:37,840 ours, Jacob Born, who's also a big Golden State Warriors fan. He 658 00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:40,760 was mad about Clay. No, he actually does not think Clay belongs. 659 00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,679 I don't think it belongs either. But right, so, so here's my 660 00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:52,199 question, Steph obviously belongs, but the Warriors dynasty, who do you think 661 00:45:52,519 --> 00:45:54,960 is actually the second most deserving player? Because I think you can make a 662 00:45:54,960 --> 00:46:00,960 real case for Draymond Green over Clay Thompson in this converse. He can, 663 00:46:00,079 --> 00:46:04,519 But I also think it might be immaterial because if either of those guys are 664 00:46:04,519 --> 00:46:07,400 going to make this type of list, we need to see more of their 665 00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:13,360 career unfold. Agreed the toughest one for me, aside from Dwight Howard, 666 00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:15,320 and I think that this would have been a stretch. I was a little 667 00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:19,639 bit surprised that Mana Genoble wasn't on it, but that might just be like 668 00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:23,320 only having one member of that Spurs dynasty is interesting, and I'm not including 669 00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:29,920 like the David Robinson era of that dynasty, like Tony Parker and many genobli 670 00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:36,039 It's really hard to tell the history of basketball without giving them a little bit 671 00:46:36,039 --> 00:46:39,079 more credit. No, Ben Wallace is really interesting. I just felt like 672 00:46:39,119 --> 00:46:43,360 stylistically, and you don't know if you're ranking it in importance to the game, 673 00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:45,679 but like stylistically, I feel like Manage Genoble had a very huge impact 674 00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:49,840 on just the way that the game is played. Or I mean they've been 675 00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:52,639 like Dianzel Russell came to the league talking about like how he admired that's just 676 00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,480 someone more recently streaming to mind about how he watched a lot of Mana Genoble. 677 00:46:55,960 --> 00:47:00,400 So I don't know that I was surprised, and I feel like I 678 00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:01,639 have too much of a soft spot from manager Noble, but he was the 679 00:47:02,599 --> 00:47:06,960 Him and Frank Nielichino, those were the those were the other shocking ones. 680 00:47:07,119 --> 00:47:08,800 Imagine how he did. This conversation would have been if Grank use we're on 681 00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:15,719 here now too, oh Man, talk about someone who appreciates mataj nob Let's 682 00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:19,119 get to these final two questions. This would have feel like could be a 683 00:47:19,199 --> 00:47:23,039 quick one. It's from at It's at sd M eighty four. Underscore didn't 684 00:47:23,039 --> 00:47:28,239 have a name attached to their handle. I always wondered what the game would 685 00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:31,280 be like, or I always wondered how the game will react if they remove 686 00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:36,000 the three point line. Why would they remove the three point line at this 687 00:47:36,039 --> 00:47:37,400 point, I thought, like, if you want to move it back or 688 00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,440 institute of four point line, I think either of those are way more likely 689 00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:44,639 than to remove the three point line. Yeah, I mean, I think 690 00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:50,559 that would just have a tremendous adverse effect because you would be going, you 691 00:47:50,559 --> 00:47:54,519 would be harkening back to the early pre ABA merger days, which, yeah, 692 00:47:54,599 --> 00:47:59,800 there was a lot of interesting, compelling basketball being played. It was 693 00:48:00,119 --> 00:48:02,880 so way more big man dominated, way more We're going to throw the ball 694 00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:06,199 into the low post and let guys go to work, because all of a 695 00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:09,400 sudden, the post up becomes the primary source of offense. Like, the 696 00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:15,159 reason that the three point line has an effect is because it's worth an extra 697 00:48:15,199 --> 00:48:20,199 point and it changes the math associated with each shot. So if you're now 698 00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:24,039 entering an era of the NBA in which a shot from two feet is worth 699 00:48:24,119 --> 00:48:28,559 the same as a shot from twenty three feet, why the hell are you 700 00:48:28,599 --> 00:48:32,280 going to take the twenty three foot shot Like it's You're going to have a 701 00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:37,679 lot more congestion, You're gonna have a lot more injuries because athletes have gotten 702 00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:42,920 bigger, faster, stronger, and more physical since the advent of the three 703 00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,480 point line, And now you're going to put them in a more consolidated, 704 00:48:45,519 --> 00:48:50,440 heavy traffic area of the court with a lot more physicality. You're gonna have 705 00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:52,480 a ton more injuries. You're gonna have a lot less entertaining play. And 706 00:48:52,519 --> 00:48:59,199 like, I'm all, I'm all for bringing back post up play because it's 707 00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:02,760 entertaining watch a guy like Kevin McHale go to work with just like a dizzying 708 00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:07,719 array of low post tricks. It was really fun to watch Al Jefferson operate 709 00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:14,639 from the low blocks it's not a particularly efficient strategy in today's NBA if you 710 00:49:14,679 --> 00:49:20,679 can expand the size of the two point area and move the three point line 711 00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:25,159 back and make players not prioritize that shot at as much, but still force 712 00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:29,199 defenses to cover out to those areas. And yeah, maybe you bring a 713 00:49:29,559 --> 00:49:34,000 you bring some low post play back into the equation, but just removing it 714 00:49:34,199 --> 00:49:37,320 entirely would be a disaster. Are you pro? And also, if you 715 00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:43,039 removed the three point line, what would Duncan Robinson shoot? Is he gonna 716 00:49:43,079 --> 00:49:45,440 take a shot that's worth two points? I just can't. It's probably not 717 00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:49,760 going to be in the NBA? Right Are you pro or against a four 718 00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:54,159 point line? I'm against it? And maybe I'm just a little bit too 719 00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:59,199 much of a traditionalist with this where it's like, to me, it feels 720 00:49:59,199 --> 00:50:00,800 like more of a gimmick. Can I get that? That was also the 721 00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:07,159 counter argument against the advent of the three point arc at first, but it 722 00:50:07,199 --> 00:50:15,480 feels like just an unnecessary inclusion. We already have complaints about homogeneous offensive styles, 723 00:50:15,679 --> 00:50:21,599 even if the ways the teams generate their three point heavy offenses are still 724 00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:27,559 divergent enough that it's entertaining to watch the various ways that three point looks are 725 00:50:27,559 --> 00:50:30,280 generated. But if you just if you include a four point line where like 726 00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:36,599 you're just gonna have a select number of guys occasionally like hoisting up a shot 727 00:50:36,639 --> 00:50:40,559 from forty five feet, Like do we really want to watch that kind of 728 00:50:40,599 --> 00:50:45,480 with you? I might be with it if it's like maybe only in crunch 729 00:50:45,559 --> 00:50:49,360 time, or like, does that help it like a race deficits quit like 730 00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:51,880 make games closer if there are blowouts, And is there a way to like 731 00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:54,280 sort of implement it only if the score gets to a certain point or a 732 00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:59,920 certain time left in the game. But I could totally understand where you're coming. 733 00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:04,159 I'm a way bigger fan of removing below the break threes, just like 734 00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:08,159 having the arc trailoff into out of bounds territory and removing the corner threes from 735 00:51:08,159 --> 00:51:14,639 the equation. I think that's a much more compelling change to me, because 736 00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:20,280 you're still like keeping the shot values relatively similar, but by taking away that 737 00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:22,840 area of the court, I think you're going to promote a lot more creativity 738 00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:28,239 on the on the interior. Interesting, I might be more pro four point 739 00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:30,360 line than I am of getting rid of below the break break threes. Though 740 00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:37,559 this last question I thought was really interesting comes from why did I lose it 741 00:51:37,599 --> 00:51:42,239 already? Oh, Jake j Which team do you think would have the best 742 00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:47,360 starting five if you can only choose from their bench? I mean, my 743 00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:52,119 immediate instinct is the Atlanta Hawks, just because I think that it's the deepest 744 00:51:52,119 --> 00:51:57,280 team in the NBA, and once the pieces are healthy, you know, 745 00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:00,119 and we're assuming here that the starting lineup is try Young Bogdon, Bogdanovitch, 746 00:52:00,159 --> 00:52:04,880 Jandre Hunter, John Collins, and Clint Capella, and that still leaves you 747 00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:09,320 with a bench lineup of either Delon Wright or Shariff Cooper or Lou Williams at 748 00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:13,280 the one, Kevin Hurder at the two, Cam Reddish at the three, 749 00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:16,199 Danilo Gallinari at the four, and either Gorgi jang Or and Yaka Kongwu if 750 00:52:16,199 --> 00:52:21,400 he's healthy, at the five. That's a good bench lineup. They were 751 00:52:21,559 --> 00:52:24,440 the team that I gravitatewards immediately for the sake I figured you would pick them, 752 00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:28,679 so for the sake of just a little bit of variety here, I 753 00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:32,840 thought about the Knicks. Derrick Rose Manuel quickly, Alec Brooks, Obie toppin 754 00:52:34,119 --> 00:52:37,679 Newrland's Noel. That's I know, like he was not off to the best 755 00:52:37,679 --> 00:52:40,239 start. That's like, that's I don't know if that's a viable starting five. 756 00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:44,079 But that's not a terrible starting five by any stretch. No, it's 757 00:52:44,119 --> 00:52:47,320 definitely not. And I actually think that you could throw out and here's an 758 00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:52,719 interesting one. The Lakers might be an interesting one because Ross isn't on the 759 00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:57,079 court exactly. No, but I mean, like, again, we're assuming 760 00:52:57,119 --> 00:53:02,679 health. But let's say Malik Monk, Taylan Horton, Tucker, Wayne Ellington, 761 00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:12,320 Carmelo Anthony and Dwight Howard. It's not a bad lineup. I don't 762 00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:15,320 know. That might be a little much for me. I thought, wouldn't 763 00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:20,679 you here, I guess to frame it this way, would be you wouldn't 764 00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:22,960 think that the Pelicans would be a better choice than and I'm not doing a 765 00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:25,840 tongue in cheek here, like a Zion hasn't played so he counts. You 766 00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:30,920 don't think the Pelicans would be a better option than the Lakers, because if 767 00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:35,159 we're let's just assume that Herbert Jones wouldn't be in the starting five. He 768 00:53:35,199 --> 00:53:38,239 started the past two games for New Orleans, so you would be dealing with 769 00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:40,639 I don't even know if he would make your bench cut, but you know 770 00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:46,880 you're dealing with Thomas san Ranski, Trey Murphy, Josh Hart, Naji Marshall, 771 00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:50,599 and Jackson Hayes. I might prefer that to what you named the Lakers, 772 00:53:50,639 --> 00:53:52,440 to be honest, there are a lot of candidates. I mean Sacramento, 773 00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:57,960 Davion Mitchell, Terrence Davis, Buddy Healed, Marvin Bagley, and Tristan 774 00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:01,639 Thompson or Alex lenn Is intrigued Toronto like a Malachi Flynn, Gary Trent, 775 00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:07,840 Junior, Esac Bonga, Scottie Barnes, Chris Bouchet lineup. There's there are 776 00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:10,639 definitely some intriguing candidates here. It's so tough to do this, this exercise 777 00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:15,119 because we're so early in the season and there have been like starting a lot 778 00:54:15,159 --> 00:54:19,159 of changes already. Where Gary Trent like started the past two or three games 779 00:54:19,159 --> 00:54:21,360 from Raptors, it's like, would you would you can? Also, I 780 00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:22,800 thought that was one of the funniest things that happened, was you can you 781 00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:27,239 can throw drawjict into that line up too, and it's still it's still eminently 782 00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:30,679 intriguing. I thought it was funny. Massa I said, Gary tren Junior 783 00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:32,079 was gonna start, then Nick Nurse said he wasn't going to start, and 784 00:54:32,079 --> 00:54:35,599 then Gary tren Junior started. That's just that's a fun a side. Do 785 00:54:35,599 --> 00:54:37,840 you have anything else you want to get off your chest before we roll out 786 00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:39,199 of here? This was a look it was interesting to me. Back for 787 00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:42,559 the mail bags, I hope that people continue to send questions. You can 788 00:54:42,599 --> 00:54:45,159 always DM them as usually I know a lot of people used to do that. 789 00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:49,320 So we are back up. We're back to covering the league at at 790 00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:52,039 large and this was fun. Would you have anything else that you want to 791 00:54:52,039 --> 00:54:55,079 get off your chest before we I think the at the only other thing is 792 00:54:55,119 --> 00:54:58,599 just a prompt for our listeners. Look if you've made if you've made it 793 00:54:58,639 --> 00:55:01,800 this far into the episode, for and foremost, thank you, But secondly, 794 00:55:02,079 --> 00:55:06,599 we want to do whatever we can to entertain you all. So if 795 00:55:06,679 --> 00:55:08,559 you have an off the wall idea for a podcast like Dan and I have 796 00:55:08,559 --> 00:55:13,719 always enjoyed doing the Weird Series. Sometimes they don't make it all the way 797 00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:16,320 through to the finish line because other things come up, Like we've tried to 798 00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:21,639 rank the best ten players for each franchise in the last decade, We've done 799 00:55:21,639 --> 00:55:24,159 stuff with jerseys and one on one tournaments and all sorts of stuff, and 800 00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:29,320 we're always interested in those more off the wall ideas. So if you have 801 00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:32,039 anything that you think would be compelling, let us know we are We are 802 00:55:32,079 --> 00:55:37,079 not too proud to accept content suggestions. Yeah, well I'm not Dan virgin 803 00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:38,920 Is, but I make him listen anyway. Yeah, I'm I have no 804 00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:43,000 sense of humility whatsoever. I don't care what you guys think. They all 805 00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:45,239 our listeners. No, that's not true. Yeah, if it's a reoccurring 806 00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:47,559 series idea maybe you want to hear throughout the season, or what you want 807 00:55:47,559 --> 00:55:51,280 to see more or less of from us, that's also fine too. We're 808 00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:53,719 always open to suggestions to that point. As noted at the beginning of this 809 00:55:54,199 --> 00:55:58,480 Please please remember to rate, review, and subscribe to us wherever you get 810 00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:01,119 your podcasts. Subscribe, having and downloading every episode is the best way to 811 00:56:01,159 --> 00:56:05,400 help us, as is leaving us a rating and review on iTunes, whether 812 00:56:05,519 --> 00:56:07,760 or not you use it, and if this is your first time listening, 813 00:56:07,119 --> 00:56:13,800 consider throwing us that permanent subscription. We are pleasantly sub mediocre and only modestly 814 00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:17,519 insufferable. That is, that's a hallmark, that the benchmark of greatness for 815 00:56:17,639 --> 00:56:22,360 league wide NBA podcast in my opinion. So until next time and as always 816 00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:27,000 well leave it. The shout out to the one, the only any one 817 00:56:27,159 --> 00:56:30,360 in the world who is not Jason Kidd, but also shout out Frankie Aquina.