1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:06,639 Pays a botany a dozen podcast I'm using a fancy mic. It's uh, 2 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:10,560 what is the fucking brand? Sure, the production company got it for me 3 00:00:10,599 --> 00:00:16,440 so I could do voiceovers for their little kill your Lawn show. And I 4 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:18,879 still haven't really figured out to use it, but it can just plug right 5 00:00:18,879 --> 00:00:25,280 into my phone via USB. So I'm trying to fucked up. I just 6 00:00:25,359 --> 00:00:29,679 have a feeling this is gonna fuck up anyway. Whatever, So I'm trying 7 00:00:29,679 --> 00:00:32,240 to use it before I got to send it back. They're making me send 8 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,399 it back. They didn't buy it for me, Okay, they're Nickel and 9 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,759 Diamond us. I'm just kidding. They're really good people over there, and 10 00:00:38,799 --> 00:00:42,439 they're actually in the hole for the fucking for this TV show, which I 11 00:00:42,439 --> 00:00:45,920 guess is gonna get I guess the first year. It's only gonna be on 12 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:50,000 cable, which I think is a very bad business decision. And I'm someone 13 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,159 who makes very bad business decisions. I'm very shitty at business, and I'm 14 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:57,399 kind of proud of that. But to put it only on cable seems very 15 00:00:57,439 --> 00:01:02,200 silly, because who the fuck just cable except boomers. But you know what, 16 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:04,879 I think boomers are kinds of people that need to watch a show like 17 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:08,120 Kill your Lawn, because you know, we're not just trying to preach to 18 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,480 the choir here, Okay, we got I'll have crime Pays videos for that. 19 00:01:11,879 --> 00:01:15,400 The people that got to see this and learn why it's important to kill 20 00:01:15,439 --> 00:01:18,959 your lawn and what you do once you've killed it are probably the people watching 21 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:23,079 cable. So anyway, today I have doctor John Clark on a podcast who 22 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:30,079 studies gesnari aci, which is a fucking wonderful plant family really brilliantly colored zygomorphic, 23 00:01:30,159 --> 00:01:36,040 just a fancy word for bilatoing, symmetrical, really colorful zygomorphic flowers from 24 00:01:36,079 --> 00:01:40,519 the Old World and New World tropics. You know, I had someone actually 25 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:42,920 give me shit once for using it. They said it was problematic, and 26 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:46,599 maybe I didn't say that, but I fucking hate you know, it was 27 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:48,560 the kind of thing I couldn't believe. I was like, really, it's 28 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:52,359 just the easy way to say, you know, east or West side of 29 00:01:52,359 --> 00:01:55,840 the Atlantic. That then, I'm actually kind of made me self conscious about 30 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:57,439 saying. I was like, should I not say? Should I not say? 31 00:01:57,879 --> 00:02:02,239 You know? Old World? New World? Fucking like Jesus christ Man? 32 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:06,760 All right, anyway, um, but gasnari is Old World and New 33 00:02:06,799 --> 00:02:10,319 World tropics, and I don't think there's any in the subtropics. I don't 34 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:14,000 think. Do you get any good native giznarians in the United States, I 35 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,919 don't think so. I first became familiar with them in the Dominican Republic and 36 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:23,639 that's where that's where John has spent many of much of his time studying some 37 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:27,719 of the really cool species down there. They're epiphytic. African violets are probably 38 00:02:27,719 --> 00:02:32,439 the only plant species that most people are you know, familiar with on any 39 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:38,439 sort of broad scale, because they're you know, so commonly cultivated as houseplants. 40 00:02:38,479 --> 00:02:40,080 I think my ma she used to have them, you know, she 41 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:44,639 had like two or three she'd you know, slowly kill over a period of 42 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,680 two or three years in a kitchen window. But they were very moisture demanding. 43 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:52,400 I remembered that she keeping in the kitchen window in Chicago. And so 44 00:02:52,439 --> 00:02:55,240 they've got you know, tectic usually they've got you know, bull eight texture 45 00:02:55,280 --> 00:03:00,479 to the leaves. Again, very colorful flowers, lots of hairs opposite leaves 46 00:03:00,479 --> 00:03:04,759 because they are in order lamy alies, which we talk about all right. 47 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:08,039 So I'm I'm I'm telling you to not just study plant families, but also 48 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:13,000 study orders, okay, and study lamy alies. And if you didn't fucking 49 00:03:13,039 --> 00:03:19,719 download that free that thirty eight megabyte PDF angiosperm Bylogeny poster with all the pretty 50 00:03:19,719 --> 00:03:22,680 flowers on it, you know you can get you can get it printed out 51 00:03:22,719 --> 00:03:24,520 too, But I think the smallest you can print it out and have it 52 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:29,960 still be legible and not look like shit is like three three feet by four 53 00:03:30,039 --> 00:03:32,800 feet, three feet by five feet. I don't know, it's it's fucking 54 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:37,400 it's you know, it's you got to print it out big. Someone printed 55 00:03:37,439 --> 00:03:42,159 me one for free, which is very kind of them. Some some fan 56 00:03:42,319 --> 00:03:46,199 in Butte, Montana over their Copper City Graphics. Uh, and so mine 57 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:51,479 is like five feet by seven feet, but um, go to what is 58 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:58,199 it plant gateway dot com slash poster and uh and download yourself a free thirty 59 00:03:58,199 --> 00:04:03,280 eight megabyte uh uh angios front Bylogeny poster and you can quick reference what order 60 00:04:04,479 --> 00:04:09,479 any plant family is in and how closely related different orders are and the you 61 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:14,560 know, the next tex taxonomic level above order, etc. So it's a 62 00:04:14,639 --> 00:04:18,800 really fucking useful and helpful resource. So I said Jessein Donland. Anyway, 63 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:26,000 me and uh doctor John Clark and myself will get to the conversation, you 64 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,279 know, after this intro. Know how long it'll be twenty or thirty minutes 65 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:30,720 if they can wrap it up quick. But I got a couple of things 66 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:35,040 to talk about. Somebody called the cops on me for planting trees on city 67 00:04:35,079 --> 00:04:39,720 property in front of their business a few weeks ago, a few days ago. 68 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:42,879 Excuse me last week? Oh fucked up. I'm trying to do too 69 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,439 much. And uh, you know, I was proud of myself. I 70 00:04:45,439 --> 00:04:47,480 didn't tell the guy to fuck off immediately. I mean I kind of did 71 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:54,199 later, but you know, at first, I just tried talking to him 72 00:04:54,519 --> 00:04:59,879 very politely and like holding it in, you know, and just being taking 73 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:04,000 kind of like the customer service approach, but not as condescending. But just 74 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:06,720 you know, this dude wasn't that smart, and I could tell it was 75 00:05:06,759 --> 00:05:11,319 really about ego for him. So I was just strategically trying to make him 76 00:05:11,319 --> 00:05:15,040 feel like he was in control while you know, mentally envisioning him getting hit 77 00:05:15,079 --> 00:05:18,839 by a bus. I'm just kidding. I didn't really, it wasn't that 78 00:05:18,959 --> 00:05:23,120 nasty, Not initially and the guy is whatever, he's fine. You know, 79 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:27,639 I'm sure he's fucking fine. He's suffering on the inside, and you 80 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:30,279 know, he's certainly not very healthy looking. He's like four hundred pounds, 81 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:35,480 very angry, and very much about ego. But anyway, we went back 82 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:39,240 and forth for a while, and I was, you know, being really 83 00:05:39,319 --> 00:05:41,720 kind and just kind of be like, hey, can we please keep the 84 00:05:41,759 --> 00:05:44,160 trees there? And he's like, it's my property, and I'm like, 85 00:05:44,199 --> 00:05:46,959 well, I don't think that's true. It totally wasn't. It was the 86 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:50,800 city. I later confirmed with them, but he ended up snatching me out 87 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:54,199 to the city first. He called the cops. The cops didn't give a 88 00:05:54,199 --> 00:05:56,759 fuck. You know, I'll talk to cops all fucking day. I don't 89 00:05:56,759 --> 00:05:59,680 care. I just don't care. I'm not freaked up by cops anymore. 90 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,079 I went through my whole virantly anti cop base in my twenties. Now I'm 91 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:08,839 just like, you know, most cases, mostly interactions I've had with cops, 92 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:11,800 and they have every reason to be shitty with me because I look like 93 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:14,800 a criminal, or so I'm told frequently. I don't really think so. 94 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:17,000 I think like I think I look like an upstanding fuck. But you know, 95 00:06:17,399 --> 00:06:19,759 John Q taxpayer over here. But I get told I look like a 96 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,920 criminal a lot. Maybe it's the neck tattoos. I don't know anyway, 97 00:06:24,399 --> 00:06:27,839 you know, I don't, I don't. I don't normally, you know, 98 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:29,839 I don't normally get out too with them. I mean, they'll come 99 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:31,079 in hoide a little bit and I just kind of talk to them like whatever. 100 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:34,680 But they, you know, they just respond to stimuli, all right, 101 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:39,399 especially in that profession. So I just, you know, if they 102 00:06:39,399 --> 00:06:43,959 can sense you're nervous, if you're hiding something or not, if you're if 103 00:06:43,959 --> 00:06:46,360 you're nervous about the fact you're hiding something, say you got a bunch of 104 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:50,160 psychodelics on you or something, you just you know, just theoretically speaking, 105 00:06:50,519 --> 00:06:54,079 you know what you're doing is not wrong. Don't be nervous about it, 106 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,480 and uh, you know, and don't be an asshole, don't like, 107 00:06:57,639 --> 00:07:00,920 don't get fucking all. Uh. I am mighty with him. There are 108 00:07:00,959 --> 00:07:04,040 some cops of just fucking assholes. Absolutely, Actually there's probably quite a few 109 00:07:04,079 --> 00:07:06,560 of them. But either way, I'm just giving taken a lead. I'm 110 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:11,480 just giving you advice from my interactions. You know, I've been stopped many 111 00:07:11,519 --> 00:07:13,680 times, and I just kind of talked him like whatever, and I'm like, 112 00:07:13,759 --> 00:07:16,319 yeah, whatever, man, you know. So um, anyway, 113 00:07:16,319 --> 00:07:18,199 the cop. I talked to the cop and I was, you know, 114 00:07:18,319 --> 00:07:20,480 kind of talking to him. I was like, I was like, sir, 115 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:24,439 you know, this is what happened. Blah blah blah. He went 116 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:27,120 and he talked to the business owner and he came back out. He's like, 117 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,160 I'm gonna tell him the same thing. I told you. It's city 118 00:07:29,199 --> 00:07:30,120 property. You gotta take it up with the city. And so then I 119 00:07:30,199 --> 00:07:33,480 was like trying to work on the cop. You know, I just outright 120 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:35,680 lie. I was like, sir, you know, I got a lot 121 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:39,079 of friends that are cops, and you know, they tend to be pretty 122 00:07:39,079 --> 00:07:42,240 good reads of people. This is a complete lie. I don't I don't 123 00:07:42,279 --> 00:07:45,680 think I have any friends that are cops except the man. My friend is 124 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:47,480 a blocky who I used to work on the railroad with. He was an 125 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:53,560 ex marine, totally shouldn't be a cop, total PTSD, fun guy to 126 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:56,639 work with, but total fucking maniac. I don't hopefully he's not a cop 127 00:07:56,680 --> 00:08:00,319 anymore. Anyway, you know, So I was telling on the guy. 128 00:08:00,319 --> 00:08:01,839 I'm like, how do you read you know, what's your reading on this 129 00:08:01,959 --> 00:08:03,920 guy? Like what's his deal? And the cop was just like, man, 130 00:08:03,959 --> 00:08:07,279 I don't fucking know. I have no clue. But I could tell 131 00:08:07,279 --> 00:08:09,079 the cop was fucking bored to being there. He could tell it was some 132 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:13,720 bullshit. Soh then the guy snitched me out to the city. Code enforcement 133 00:08:13,759 --> 00:08:18,720 came by and uh, O, Latino, dude, totally chill. Uh. 134 00:08:18,839 --> 00:08:20,720 He's like, yeah, we just can't do it. Sorry, I 135 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:22,480 gotta you know, I gotta do my job. I was like, can 136 00:08:22,519 --> 00:08:24,800 you help me try to, you know, get this authorized so I can 137 00:08:24,839 --> 00:08:28,319 plant trees here? I mean, because it's it's you know, the business 138 00:08:28,439 --> 00:08:33,960 was just it's just a fucking bleak parking lot hasn't been sealed. It's all 139 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:37,759 you know, torn, It blows dust everywhere. It's just fucking hideous looking. 140 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:39,799 And it sucks too because the neighbors were, you know, all stoked 141 00:08:39,799 --> 00:08:45,360 that I was doing it. The neighbors are living these apartments nearby, and 142 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,480 uh and I was just doing it in broad daylight. I'm not hiding shit. 143 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:50,320 You know. I was planting a bunch of cool leggings that do well 144 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:56,039 down here in South Texas. Havardia palins Uh. I was planting what else, 145 00:08:56,159 --> 00:09:01,240 oh luke Cana pulver relenta, beautiful fucking tree, beautiful mimosoid legum. 146 00:09:01,399 --> 00:09:03,759 And I was planting two mis gits too, for posterity, you know, 147 00:09:03,759 --> 00:09:07,639 because they're really important trees. The mis guits down here, you know, 148 00:09:07,639 --> 00:09:11,559 I always used to mis gits in the Mojave doesert where they don't get that 149 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:13,679 big because it's so fucking brutal and dry. They just tap down into the 150 00:09:15,399 --> 00:09:18,360 roots, probably go down so deep. But out here in South Texas you 151 00:09:18,399 --> 00:09:24,120 get these just monstrous fucking misguits, these weeping misguits, just so fucking gorgeous, 152 00:09:24,159 --> 00:09:26,159 and they've got kind of black trunks and they can get two or three 153 00:09:26,159 --> 00:09:31,720 feet diameter breast height, and then when they flower they smell really good. 154 00:09:31,759 --> 00:09:33,639 Just just the massively important trees. You know, you could chew on the 155 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:37,919 pods, you know, I spit out the seeds kind of shoe the uh 156 00:09:37,759 --> 00:09:43,679 mealy shit off. It's pretty sweet um and uh swallow that and then spit 157 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,759 the seeds out. So they're great trees. And then Lucana pulver alantha, 158 00:09:48,039 --> 00:09:50,679 which is tepewah, that's a common name down here. You know, you 159 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:54,759 can see him if you go out to like near Brownsville actually there. There's 160 00:09:56,000 --> 00:10:00,320 kind of common too in wet weather areas, especially by the Rio Grand River. 161 00:10:00,799 --> 00:10:03,840 But the same thing. They grow fast as fuck. They're a mimosoid 162 00:10:03,919 --> 00:10:09,360 legume. They've got this wonderful feathery foliage. They're just fucking gorgeous, man. 163 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:13,000 And so you know, then Havardia is kind of mean, it's kind 164 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,360 of spiny. But they grow fast too. If they're more of like a 165 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,320 thin you know, they don't the Havardia is top out at like twenty thirty 166 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,519 feet. They got little white powder poof mimosoid flowers, you know, so 167 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:26,440 it looks like a little white spirit. It's got uh, you know, 168 00:10:26,639 --> 00:10:30,480 fuck, I don't know what two hundred flowers in it, only two or 169 00:10:30,519 --> 00:10:35,240 three of which on every inflorescence will get pollinated and turn into a little bean 170 00:10:35,279 --> 00:10:37,399 pod. All right, Same thing with Lucana, all these mimosoid leggings for 171 00:10:37,399 --> 00:10:41,240 so while, because they've they've got these spherical inflorescences with a bunch of tiny 172 00:10:41,279 --> 00:10:46,120 flowers with almost no petals. I don't do they have pal I don't have 173 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,559 to look at some of the macro shets I got. But you know, 174 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:52,000 the petals obviously are not what showy, but the stamens are long as fuck 175 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:56,759 compared to the flower. The stamens are often like three or four times the 176 00:10:56,879 --> 00:11:01,279 length of the not the flower, but the calyx or um petals. I 177 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,039 can't remember if it's got petals or not. And at the look, some 178 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:07,519 do, some don't. But either way, the perianth parts, the frilly 179 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:09,919 shits, the you know, sepals, petals, et cetera, obviously sepals, 180 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:15,559 kalix, petals, corolla. But but you know, the stamens, 181 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:18,679 they'll sometimes they'll have, you know, more than the ten standard ten stamens 182 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:22,759 per tiny flour. You'll have a bunch. So it just ends up looking 183 00:11:22,799 --> 00:11:26,080 like a big, you know, powder poof ball. But they smell great. 184 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:30,159 They're fucking covered in bees, really important plants, and they cope with 185 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,000 the heat, the brutal heat on here so well. So anyway, so 186 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,879 that guy, you know, I couldn't fucking believe it. I was like, 187 00:11:35,879 --> 00:11:37,960 really, this dude's calling the cops somebody. But you know, that's 188 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:41,519 some mentality, not just down here in South Texas, but in a lot 189 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:46,080 of places, and it exemplifies a fundamental fucking disconnection from nature, you know, 190 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:50,639 and this completely warped mindset or this fucking death cult. Does that sound 191 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:54,480 kind of rhetorical and dogmatic for me to be talking like that, maybe a 192 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:56,240 little bit Take it with a grain of salt, But you know what I'm 193 00:11:56,279 --> 00:12:00,679 talking about, right, the death called up, the fucking the fucking car 194 00:12:00,799 --> 00:12:07,600 cult, the everything is fine cult. There's no mass extinction called the God 195 00:12:07,639 --> 00:12:11,559 put everything here for us called that kind of deranged shit that's slowly killing the 196 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:15,200 planet and killing our souls as well. And so, uh, that's kind 197 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,639 of what kill your lawn is all against, or not even not even against, 198 00:12:18,759 --> 00:12:24,080 it's just the opposite of what kill your lawn is for. So anyway, 199 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:26,039 I'm gonna not I have to go through the city. I'm gonna try 200 00:12:26,039 --> 00:12:30,200 to get it, you know, officiated that I can plant trees on this 201 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,000 strip of city property between the sidewalk and the road. Now, I'm fucking 202 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:37,080 dedicated to it. And if I can't do it here, if this fuck 203 00:12:37,159 --> 00:12:41,960 is gonna give me issues, uh, you know, the business owner he 204 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:45,399 had tits too. I'm not trying to sound derogatory you know, and obviously 205 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:46,240 I love a lot of fatties, a lot of a lot of friends who 206 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:50,960 were obest I don't give a fuck, but I'm just saying it does it 207 00:12:50,039 --> 00:12:54,879 gave me context? You know, this guy who's like such an egotistical prick, 208 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:58,200 and it was just you know, and I tried to swashing his ego 209 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:03,120 and whatever and uh and it just he was just no, you know, 210 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:05,480 you did it without without my permission. It's my property. And he didn't 211 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:07,840 really have a good reason either. That was the thing. I would have 212 00:13:07,879 --> 00:13:13,159 totally listened to any good reason. He just didn't want me doing it. 213 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,519 And uh and uh, yeah, I don't know it was or whatever, 214 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:18,759 but he did. He had tits. It was like, you know, 215 00:13:18,879 --> 00:13:22,279 man, tis you ever see those? You know, he's probably there's probably 216 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:26,559 quite a few man tests in South Texas. Ken Paxton, the Attorney general 217 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:30,679 who uh, he kind of looks like he's got, you know, some 218 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:33,399 some issue with this eye. He's like a what's the gay? He's got 219 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:37,240 a bad comb over, you know, kind of like two chins jowls. 220 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:41,159 You know, Ken the Attorney General of Texas who's trying to uh block the 221 00:13:41,279 --> 00:13:46,240 endangered species listing for a sleepiest prostrata. Um, you know he's probably got 222 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:50,639 man tis. I think I think you could say that. Yeah, Ken 223 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:52,840 Paxton, the attorney general with a bad comb over, who looks like he's 224 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:58,000 always sweating, you know, like he's kind of pale to you know, 225 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:03,279 it's just somebody's fucking man. Some of these Texas fucking right wing politicians are 226 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:07,120 so funny, man, They're just like such comical. Who was the guy 227 00:14:07,159 --> 00:14:15,919 that was yelling at the that dude Beto, that that that left leaning gubernatorial 228 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:20,799 candidate who you know, I wish would win governorship but probably never will. 229 00:14:20,159 --> 00:14:24,080 Here, there was some guy that was yelling at him like six months, 230 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,360 I forget what it was, but just a total you know, demon looking 231 00:14:26,879 --> 00:14:31,840 sweaty, just fucking probably God, i'd love to know it's on his hard 232 00:14:31,879 --> 00:14:33,879 drive. Actually, I wouldn't love to know it's on his hard drive. 233 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,759 Just the just the dirty fuck and they always look like they're sweating, Like 234 00:14:37,799 --> 00:14:41,559 they all look like they're just like kind of pimpley and and pale and and 235 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:48,799 maybe a little red faced little pink and their sweating just such fucking like cartoon 236 00:14:48,879 --> 00:14:52,720 cartoon villains. Anyway, Um, so you may have heard a sleepy as 237 00:14:52,759 --> 00:14:58,720 prostrata at the prostrate milk. We got listed as endangered um and uh, 238 00:14:58,759 --> 00:15:01,679 it kind of blows my mind because they're still building that fucking border wall. 239 00:15:01,799 --> 00:15:05,000 And they're building that border wall. Initially I thought it was going to be 240 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:11,000 right on top of a few individuals of that plant that are located right near 241 00:15:11,039 --> 00:15:15,840 the Rio Grand maybe a hundred feet up, and it's just you know, 242 00:15:16,039 --> 00:15:20,279 it's a migrant route. You'll see you know, footprints there. Border patrol. 243 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:22,120 It's super hot there. We were just out there as with my friend 244 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,240 or nest that we were out there. Shit, I don't know, four 245 00:15:24,279 --> 00:15:28,600 or five days ago, a border patrol sweated us super hard, at least 246 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:30,639 the first minute or two. And then I was just talking to him and 247 00:15:30,679 --> 00:15:31,919 I was like, yeah, man, They're like, what are you doing 248 00:15:31,919 --> 00:15:33,960 out here? Like what does it look like? I got a giant camera 249 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:37,159 and I'm like, like covered in plant tattoos. You think, where do 250 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:43,960 I look like I'm smuggling migrants? And and then he kind of eased up, 251 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,279 and I was like the thing too, when cops talk to me like 252 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:50,240 that is like I take the Allen Rockefeller approach. It's I don't just clam 253 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,919 up. It's like I just keep talking. I just talk so fucking much 254 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:56,639 that they want to get away from me. I'll tell them about all the 255 00:15:56,679 --> 00:15:58,799 plants there. I'll tell them about all the all the cool shit I've seen. 256 00:16:00,039 --> 00:16:03,480 Tell them about the geology, you know, start telling about the East 257 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:08,480 scene, maybe Oligus scene, you know, establishing a geologic timeline after the 258 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,759 KT extinction or whatever the fuck they're calling it now, you know, basically 259 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,320 the Tertiary. I start telling about the Tertiary. You know how this was 260 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:22,200 a fucking ocean front I don't know, thirty five million years ago. You 261 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:23,960 know, look at all the gravels here. See how they're rounded. You 262 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:26,600 know, you know what I'm saying. Only water could do that. You 263 00:16:26,639 --> 00:16:30,240 think it was this little piddly river the Rio brand that did it. I 264 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:32,840 don't think so. I think they're a lot older. And then eventually the 265 00:16:32,919 --> 00:16:34,080 cops are just they you know, they're kind of amused, and then they're 266 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:38,519 fucking annoyed by the time they're done. But you know, border patrol always 267 00:16:38,799 --> 00:16:41,000 stops. You didn't watch the sniffun Yeah, I was there with my friend 268 00:16:41,039 --> 00:16:45,039 Javier, like three days earlier, and uh, and I was just showing 269 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:52,919 them in a cool population of loafs of loafafra and thelocactus by color, which 270 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,879 has a really cool the way it germinates, it like germinates. And you 271 00:16:55,919 --> 00:16:59,559 see young philocactus, which has the dumbest comminate. Well, there's a lot 272 00:16:59,559 --> 00:17:03,240 of dumb dominas, but Thilocactus by color, Glory of Texas cactus, thelocactus 273 00:17:03,319 --> 00:17:06,680 by color. When you see little ones, you know, when they're full 274 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:08,519 grown, they reach like rape percise. When you see little ones, they're 275 00:17:08,519 --> 00:17:11,640 always half buried in the soil. So it seems like this cat, it's 276 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:15,920 fucking weird. I don't know if it germinates, I don't know. I 277 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:19,720 would love to study the germination process of philocactus because the little ones are always 278 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:25,319 half buried, so I guess maybe they're growing downwards at first, which would 279 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:29,720 be a great strategy in a fucking hot, dry environment like timo leap and 280 00:17:29,799 --> 00:17:33,559 thorn scrub. And then of course there's blackbrush Acacia everywhere. I just fucking 281 00:17:33,599 --> 00:17:36,599 love, you know how much I love this fucking habitat, and it's so 282 00:17:36,599 --> 00:17:38,880 sad because it's gonna be gone soon. The black brush is covered in five 283 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:44,279 or six different liking species, just fucking you know, it's such a beautiful 284 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,839 and a wonderful place, and it is getting so thoroughly fucked into a coma 285 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:52,960 by the border wall, by suburban sprawl, by expansion, by people who 286 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,920 just don't give a fuck. The mentality out here too, is so weird 287 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,880 because I think I've mentioned this before, but they will just clear parcels of 288 00:18:00,079 --> 00:18:03,599 land just to clear it and then sell it like they think it looks more 289 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,200 attractive, kind of like how you paint your house before you sell your house, 290 00:18:07,279 --> 00:18:11,480 or some people do. If if anyone actually owns houses that listens in 291 00:18:11,559 --> 00:18:17,920 this pocket, and I don't know, homeownership is so unpaintable for so many 292 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,839 Americans now in our failing empire. But you know, so I think that's 293 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:27,079 what they just clear the land with the bulldozer because they think it, you 294 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:30,759 know, makes it more valuable. It's just it's fucking sad, man. 295 00:18:30,039 --> 00:18:36,319 The this is all in Star County, Star County, Texas with two rs 296 00:18:36,319 --> 00:18:40,079 just getting fucked into a coma. The Peyote Gardens, the Star Cactus gardens, 297 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:44,319 the Tama leap and thorn scrub, home of so many plant species that 298 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:48,759 don't occur anywhere else in the United States. And just really cool geology too. 299 00:18:48,799 --> 00:18:52,640 Lots of coliche out there, lots of that white cement. You know, 300 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:59,839 you'll find these cliff sides, especially parts of the Goliad formation Goalie information, 301 00:19:00,039 --> 00:19:03,119 where the fuck they pronounced it, don't matter, Geolia D, which 302 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:07,319 is a geologic formation out here, and you'll just see, you know, 303 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:11,119 a road cut that's just conglomerate, basically cemented together with kalechi and who knows 304 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:17,559 how long it's been cemented like that, and all in the rocks are like 305 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:19,279 you know, those rounded rocks, they've been tumbled in a river or an 306 00:19:19,279 --> 00:19:22,680 ocean. God, and those where the fuck that came from? All different 307 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:26,640 colors, all different rock types, whether out of god knows what exposure, 308 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,519 how many hundreds of miles away and then transported here by an ancient river or 309 00:19:30,559 --> 00:19:36,119 an ocean some time in the Aaligas scene or maybe Maya scene. So anyway, 310 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:40,319 but but yeah, there was Asclepius, Prastrada was up, and phisariat, 311 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:44,200 themnopolo was up, the Zapata bladder pod, which is a little brassica. 312 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:48,119 There's so many fucking species of physarium and it's nuts and there they're a 313 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,039 bunch of really rare and endangered ones. It's just as a genus, it 314 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:53,200 tends to speciape pretty readily, it seems, throughout western North America. I 315 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:57,599 remember there was a really cool one me and a sheriff Woody had seen on 316 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:04,160 Gypsum Montana. You know, little blue rosettes, little blue leaf rosettes, 317 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:10,599 so many scale like tricoms, turns the leaves chalky blue. And so I 318 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:11,799 forget what species that was that I could look it up. It's not my 319 00:20:11,799 --> 00:20:15,720 eye. Naturalists. If anyone wants to look, just look up Fisaria and 320 00:20:15,759 --> 00:20:19,079 then in the location field put in Montana and just put in observer Joey Santur 321 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:23,160 and you'll see it. But um god, there was a fucking really cool 322 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:27,640 one in Wyoming too, where the desert yellowhead, which is one of the 323 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:34,279 coolest fucking plants in the United States. I think it's a it's a what 324 00:20:34,519 --> 00:20:40,319 is it, your mozanto cephalis. It's astoracy. It's related to um, 325 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,640 oh my god, I'm drawing a fucking blanket arnold glossom And you can totally 326 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:45,880 see it when you look at the side of the fucking flower. And you 327 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:48,880 look at the fileries, you know, you see those fileries, those are 328 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:55,640 Arnold glossom fileries. Except this is a fucking species that diverged from all the 329 00:20:55,759 --> 00:20:59,279 arnold glossoms probably fifteen million years ago, and it is now evolved in the 330 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:03,279 desert and get you know, tons of wax on its leaves to protect from 331 00:21:03,319 --> 00:21:07,359 that high dried environment of Wyoming where it grows. It girls in like two 332 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:11,960 places. I had Walter Furdig, who's a botanist who did a lot of 333 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,680 work in Miyami, on the podcast I had him on last year, I 334 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:19,559 think, and we were talking about your Moxanto cephala, what a fucking great 335 00:21:19,599 --> 00:21:26,079 plant. So anyway, but that there's like there was a surveyor steak right 336 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:30,079 near one of the prostrate milkweed plants, this one that got listed, and 337 00:21:30,079 --> 00:21:32,039 I was like, what the fuck? I was so bummed. I couldn't 338 00:21:32,039 --> 00:21:33,440 fucking And I talked to the landowner too, and he was like, yeah, 339 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:37,880 they're gonna, you know, because he's the one that gives us permission 340 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,480 to go out there and fuck around, you know, fiddly fuck around in 341 00:21:41,519 --> 00:21:47,359 the bushes and get all cut up and he had said that, yeah, 342 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,079 they're still going through with the border wall, and he's like, I had 343 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:52,480 to sell because otherwise they were just going to eminent domain my ass. He 344 00:21:52,519 --> 00:21:56,200 didn't say that, that's my paraphrase of him, because people in South Texas 345 00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:00,000 don't say things like the government would eminent don'tain my ass. You know, 346 00:22:00,039 --> 00:22:04,640 they just don't talk like that, but they you know, they say basically, 347 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,119 he was telling me that, you know, they were gonna just take 348 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:11,960 it from him if he didn't sell it. So but I think it's can't 349 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,440 tell if it's federal or state. Now I think it's both. But I 350 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,359 think, you know, Abbott is part of his political stunt. It was 351 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:23,079 definitely or some some of the republic state Republicans down here, we're making it 352 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:27,720 their priority to finish the walls. So Biden didn't do shit, of course, 353 00:22:27,759 --> 00:22:30,720 as he doesn't, you know, half dead walking corpse that he is. 354 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,319 Um. But it was funny because when we got detained by border patrol 355 00:22:37,279 --> 00:22:40,200 and they had like five or six border patrol as come out to talk to 356 00:22:40,319 --> 00:22:41,759 us because they didn't know what the fuck, you know, they were looking 357 00:22:41,759 --> 00:22:45,960 at us for a while, like down this dirt road and I thought it 358 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,400 was some sort of like some like Burder or someone else, one of the 359 00:22:48,519 --> 00:22:51,200 ranch hands or some shit, and I was, what the fuck. I 360 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,799 just kind of ignored him, um because I couldn't see. And then anyway, 361 00:22:53,799 --> 00:22:56,319 they walked up on us, and then they you know, they thought 362 00:22:56,319 --> 00:22:59,920 it was a bigger deal than it was, and they ended up just wasn't 363 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,359 you know. They let us go after a few minutes. But I was 364 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:03,359 talking to one of the guys and I was like, yeah, man, 365 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:07,160 this fucking wall is not gonna do anything. It's the most expensive political stunt 366 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,920 in Texas history. And he was, you know, I'm like, it's 367 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:15,279 just basically it's just basically there to get geriatric voters excited and feel like something's 368 00:23:15,319 --> 00:23:18,480 being done, like Cartel's pay off all the local politicians anywhere. They're not 369 00:23:18,519 --> 00:23:22,359 gonna have any trouble. Like you maybe you'll stop like a Guatemalan mother or 370 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:27,400 like some you know, some teenagers that are coming here from on Thrust or 371 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,640 some shit, you know, to work in a kitchen somewhere, like maybe 372 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,960 you'll That's probably the most that this wall will do. And the fucking Border 373 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:37,240 patrol agent was like, man, I wish I could say you were lying, 374 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:41,079 but I'm not arguing with you. You know. He was basically just 375 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,400 like yeah, you know. It was like like they know it too. 376 00:23:44,519 --> 00:23:49,680 They know it's a fucking but anyway, um so anyway, you know, 377 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:53,640 I just that I had a couple salty issues. It was the guy called 378 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,960 the cops to me for playing trees. Then when I was coming back from 379 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,279 New Orleans after we just finished Shoot and Kill Your Lawn, I got into 380 00:24:00,319 --> 00:24:03,880 it with the fucking airport staff too. And it's not because I didn't. 381 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:08,519 This wasn't. I did not did not. This sounds bad, but I 382 00:24:08,559 --> 00:24:11,559 didn't start it, all right. They were giving me shit about the dog 383 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,519 they were they were they hadn't wanted me to fill out some form. I 384 00:24:15,559 --> 00:24:18,519 already filled out the form. They said you've got to fill it out again. 385 00:24:18,559 --> 00:24:21,640 And it was supposed to be submitted forty eight hours prior. And it 386 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:23,799 was American Airlines. I never fly American airlines, all right. The worst 387 00:24:23,799 --> 00:24:26,720 part of flying is always being in the airport and being around all the people. 388 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,400 Being in the sky is actually nice. I don't get freaked out. 389 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,240 I don't care about that. I get the physics of how it works. 390 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,160 It's just being around the people and the fucking tsa meat heads and all the 391 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,880 fucking more. It's just like God, if you want to make some of 392 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,880 the misanthropist misanthropist, make him spend more time than they need to win an 393 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,079 airport, make him just spend any time at an airport. So the lady 394 00:24:48,079 --> 00:24:52,839 behind the counter was just being a total fucking turd and just you know, 395 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,400 not helpful at all, you know, And I'm like, my flight leaves 396 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,480 in like an hour. How do I I had to return the fucking rental 397 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,400 car that forever, or they've got a shuttle that takes you from the rental 398 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,880 car place to the airport. That took forty fucking minutes. It was just 399 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,960 the hell. It was total fucking hell. And so I was it became 400 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:11,680 apparent I was gonna miss my flight, and this lady was just being a 401 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,319 turred and you know, I just was like, this is fucked. I 402 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,400 basically just said, this is so fucked. You know, why are why 403 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:22,519 are you doing this? And then you know, sir, and they just 404 00:25:22,559 --> 00:25:23,440 started and then we just got into it. And then I told her I 405 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,160 hope she gets hit by a bus too. And so you see how you 406 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:30,039 know some people go when in moments the stress, they go to fight or 407 00:25:30,079 --> 00:25:33,680 flight, and I just immediately go to fight, you know what I mean. 408 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:37,880 I mean, I've probably it's just fuck. So why I was so 409 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:44,559 proud of me when that that you know, walking fucking bag of ego U 410 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,920 and Mantis told me he was gonna call a costume me for planting trees. 411 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,200 I was like, I can't you know, I didn't immediately tell him the 412 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:53,640 fuck off. I was so proud of myself. I've told so many people 413 00:25:53,839 --> 00:26:00,480 to just immediately go fuck themselves, um, you know, and sometimes it's 414 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,279 been totally fine. Other times it's just not been very strategic, but it's 415 00:26:03,319 --> 00:26:06,319 I feel like it's always been justified. Of course, not later. If 416 00:26:06,319 --> 00:26:07,079 I saw the person the next day, I'd be like, hey, sorry 417 00:26:07,079 --> 00:26:10,079 about that at you we just got into it. I don't know. I 418 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:14,920 don't hold grudges. Grudges are for people with big egos, and I would 419 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,720 like to think that I don't have a big ego. I don't fucking you 420 00:26:17,799 --> 00:26:21,839 know who cares? Let it go whatever. My oh my fucking Italian grandparents 421 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,079 and ship were like that to them and their cousins and their fucking nine. 422 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,119 Bro, they'd all be talking shit to each other and having a flare up 423 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,160 a fight, screaming, throwing shit next week, throw a playing cars together. 424 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,640 They're fine, you know. So uh, but not everyone's like that. 425 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:40,039 Some people really get hurt and uh, you know. Anyway, so 426 00:26:40,279 --> 00:26:42,000 yeah, that was a fucking that was a that was a nightmare. But 427 00:26:42,039 --> 00:26:45,440 see, this is the behavior that prevents me from ever having a career in 428 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,240 academia, you know, among other things. It's just you can't. You 429 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:52,079 gotta you gotta keep it bottled a little more, you know, just treat 430 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:56,079 it bottled up and just and then let it go, let the anger dissipate 431 00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:02,039 somewhere else. I just immediately hit that fucking pressure release vouts. So anyway, 432 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:07,000 um, yeah, So I was crawling through the thorn scrub yesterday with 433 00:27:07,039 --> 00:27:11,000 my friend Benny too, looking for cacti. I don't know why I didn't 434 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,880 wear pants. I wore shorts, which was funny because now my legs looked 435 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,200 like a fucking three year old scrubble down them with the red sharpie. They're 436 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,680 just totally cut up. I didn't bleed too much, but lots of cuts. 437 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,680 But we saw a bunch of really good stuff. Man, it's just 438 00:27:25,759 --> 00:27:30,079 really weird geology too. I've been I've been in the Thorn scrub out in 439 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,599 South Texas so many times, you know, probably a hundred times at least, 440 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:38,640 looking for rare plants, looking for cacti, looking for cool geologic formations. 441 00:27:38,759 --> 00:27:42,240 We certainly found that yesterday, and the property we were on it is 442 00:27:42,279 --> 00:27:48,039 actually gonna get you know, turned into another cancer cell, like a try. 443 00:27:48,079 --> 00:27:52,720 I think it's gonna be tracked housing and something else. But god, 444 00:27:52,759 --> 00:27:56,119 I would love to have the dude from that YouTube show Not Just Bikes, 445 00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:00,359 that YouTube channel Not Just Bikes on because that guy says everything thing I feel 446 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:07,799 about how America builds its infrastructure and just how fucked it is. So I 447 00:28:07,839 --> 00:28:08,839 don't know how fuck do I get a hold that guy, you know, 448 00:28:11,039 --> 00:28:15,960 But was what was most what I found cool about where we were yesterday, 449 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,640 which was you know, kind of blew my mind, was the fucking geology 450 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,960 there was. I just saw, you know, there's it's all sedimentary rocks 451 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,160 here and there's a lot of soil in places, and then other places it's 452 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:30,559 really thin. There's just you know, bare limestone, a bunch of different 453 00:28:30,599 --> 00:28:37,079 micro sites etc. But what blew my mind was these rock piles we got 454 00:28:37,079 --> 00:28:41,079 to that looked like a bulldozer had come, and it obviously was not what 455 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,640 had happened, but it looked like some sort of dozer had come and just 456 00:28:45,079 --> 00:28:51,359 piled up lots of these large ten or fifteen twenty pound boulders into these hills. 457 00:28:51,359 --> 00:28:55,799 And on top of the hills was this plant in the rootacy heliet At 458 00:28:55,839 --> 00:29:00,319 partifolia, which is a small tree. It's got kind of triffid leaves, 459 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,839 white stems that will have multiple shoots coming up from the base, but it 460 00:29:03,839 --> 00:29:07,079 still gives about twenty feet tall, really beautiful tree, smells incredible, The 461 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:11,039 leaves smell really pungent when you crush them. They got those pellucid oil glands 462 00:29:11,079 --> 00:29:15,079 that of course is it's an apomorphe aka a trait of the family Routassy. 463 00:29:15,519 --> 00:29:18,319 But they were only growing on top of these hills. And then just for 464 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:22,839 me, what was weird was again these these boulders, like many of the 465 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,319 rocks you see here, were tumbled, they were rounded, they were almost 466 00:29:26,359 --> 00:29:30,240 beautifully polished, you know, and some of them were coming out of were 467 00:29:30,279 --> 00:29:34,799 some meth that together with calichi, you know, that white calcium carbonate deposit 468 00:29:34,839 --> 00:29:41,599 that basically gets there via transport through groundwater. But I just couldn't figure out. 469 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,359 I mean, these were the largest boulders I've ever seen down here, 470 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,160 and so all I could. I mean, they were obviously in a river 471 00:29:48,319 --> 00:29:52,359 or an ocean at some point, but just the size was what struck me. 472 00:29:52,359 --> 00:29:55,880 And I realized that this was probably old ocean front, or maybe it 473 00:29:55,920 --> 00:30:00,519 was like some massive ancient river or yeah, or probably this was just the 474 00:30:00,559 --> 00:30:03,359 coastline twenty five million years ago. But took a couple of those rocks. 475 00:30:03,359 --> 00:30:07,440 Don't don't let ever, don't ever let anybody tell you not to take rocks. 476 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:11,119 It's fine if you take rocks. So yeah, I don't know. 477 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,680 So we were just, you know, we were we were, I guess, 478 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,920 just doing a little survey. We didn't find, Surprisingly enough, we 479 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,400 didn't find many cact out there, which was weird. But we found we 480 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:23,680 were walking through these hellyetta forests. Oh, Benny got attacked by killer bees 481 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,759 and had to run away. He was wearing I'm wearing shorts and a fucking 482 00:30:26,799 --> 00:30:33,079 T shirt. Benny's wearing like, you know, like a cameo hunting jacket. 483 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:37,279 That's like a thick canvas material and then you know, full like heavy 484 00:30:37,319 --> 00:30:41,000 pants, like he didn't he was fine, like he didn't get whatever. 485 00:30:41,039 --> 00:30:44,880 But I heard him being you know how he heard him not screaming but shouting 486 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,160 him me like, hey, get away. There's bees. Bees. It's 487 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:51,680 a bee killer. Bees are a very serious concern down here in South Texas. 488 00:30:51,759 --> 00:30:53,400 The honey bees that just will swarm you and not let go, and 489 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,240 they're very aggressive. They'll come at you, you know, if you're twenty 490 00:30:56,319 --> 00:31:03,359 or thirty feet away. So that was little exciting anyway. But so moving 491 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:07,759 on from South Texas though. The thing that when I was in New Orleans, 492 00:31:07,759 --> 00:31:11,319 I don't know if I talked about simplocos tinctoria, which was one of 493 00:31:11,359 --> 00:31:15,119 the coolest, coolest plants I saw when I was in that area, and 494 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,359 of course I spent a lot of time in New Orleans before, but it 495 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:23,920 never never really botanized there. So this simplocos tinctoria, it's in its own 496 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,640 family, which is let's see, is it's simple. Yeah, it's in 497 00:31:27,799 --> 00:31:33,200 simplo simplo casey. I don't know why I was trying to add more vows 498 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:37,799 than they're simplo cooccy is not how you pronounce it, but that's what I 499 00:31:37,839 --> 00:31:40,519 was going for. I always want to add vows, you know, I 500 00:31:40,559 --> 00:31:45,880 think I just like vows simplo casey order eric Kyleys, which Clethra is into 501 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:52,640 and hold there's a whole bunch of weird monotypic or very small families. You 502 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,880 know, families are only one or two genera in them, and eric Kayleys 503 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:57,200 and the order eric Chaileys. To see, this is why it's simportant to 504 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:02,559 happen things like the angiosprut phylogeny coaster U they call it sweet leaf and the 505 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:08,880 range looking at iinat is basically southern Tennessee is the northern cent of the range, 506 00:32:09,039 --> 00:32:15,000 central Arkansas, eastern Texas, and then it I guess it goes on 507 00:32:15,119 --> 00:32:19,680 up into Maryland too, kind of hugs the coast a little bit. It's 508 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:24,519 common in Appalachia in North Florida too. But how many species are in the 509 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:30,920 I think there's quite a few species in the genus Let me look. Fuck. 510 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:35,640 Ian's so nice at least on the website because you can click on genus 511 00:32:36,039 --> 00:32:38,240 and then it'll show you every Oh my god, there's like a hundred species. 512 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:45,480 Symplocos mesii, Symplocos Micranta, Microphila migoi, Modesta montana. Is it 513 00:32:45,599 --> 00:32:50,519 Asian too? I think it's Asian as well. I think it's one of 514 00:32:50,599 --> 00:32:52,400 those you know, eastern North America and Asia. Yep, yeah, it 515 00:32:52,559 --> 00:32:58,480 is. Oh shit, what a disjunction for a genus. Anyway, that 516 00:32:58,559 --> 00:33:02,200 was it was a fucking great plant. It seems to like it more music. 517 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,960 So I probably wouldn't have a chance in hell of growing it down here 518 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:10,599 in South Texas where you get the Gulf coast transitioning to desert. But you 519 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:15,440 know, if you live in Appalachia at that area, should certainly become aware 520 00:33:15,519 --> 00:33:17,279 of this fucking banger and get it. It's also got its own species of 521 00:33:17,319 --> 00:33:23,119 Exobasidium, that fungus that parasitizes primarily members of Eric case In, a blueberry 522 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:28,279 family, but also any plant or many plants and Eric Hayley's the order, 523 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,519 and so Symplocos has its own species of Exobasidium, which when it fruits, 524 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:37,960 it looks like a bright green like dayglo colored leaf or fruiting body occurring on 525 00:33:38,039 --> 00:33:42,079 the leaves. It's so cool, and I guess it's doing that. Of 526 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,519 course, exobasidium. The strategy there evolutionarily is that you're gonna get insects to 527 00:33:45,599 --> 00:33:50,680 disperse your spores for you, you know, you resemble something that makes an 528 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,559 insect land on it. Check it out. You know, it'll soon figure 529 00:33:53,599 --> 00:33:58,680 out there's nothing they're of interest and it's not an actual flower and it's not 530 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,279 you know whatever, and it goes off and it just brings the sports somewhere 531 00:34:01,319 --> 00:34:06,319 else. I would assume that would be the adaptive benefits. So anyway, 532 00:34:06,519 --> 00:34:07,800 um, and see, do I get anything else? I think that's it 533 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:13,519 really a bit off more than I can shoot with these fucking stickers I was 534 00:34:13,599 --> 00:34:15,800 mailing out. But it's you know, I use it as an opportunity to 535 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:20,000 draw the same thing ten or fifteen times over. So it's, you know, 536 00:34:20,079 --> 00:34:22,000 fifteen bucks for stickers, twenty bucks. If you want me to draw 537 00:34:22,079 --> 00:34:25,599 some on the envelope, then I just practice drawing a fucking jack rabbit or 538 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:30,639 Dennis Farina. I've drawn many Dennis Farinas over the last few days, all 539 00:34:30,679 --> 00:34:32,360 right, because I like, you know, he's always looking like a jolly 540 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:36,679 fucking you know, a jolly a Tanian American actor. Okay, and also 541 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:42,000 Farina, you got the whole epicuticular wax, you know on plants like cacti. 542 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,679 Farina. You know you got a nice white, bluish farina, chalky 543 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:49,199 blue farina on you, you know, Dennis Farina, you know, the 544 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,360 whole play on words thing. So I was doing that, and I was 545 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:59,320 doing well WHICHI and morabilis mega strobili mega strobilius singular the female cones, and 546 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,440 well which which I actually have one down here in South Texas which is slowly 547 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,920 dying. So I think I'm gonna give it to my friend Kelsey out there 548 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,679 in West Texas and see, because I think it'll do better in a little 549 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:14,000 bit cooler of a climate with a little bit more erridity. But you gotta 550 00:35:14,039 --> 00:35:16,119 give those things deep pots. Man, who is that dude? What was 551 00:35:16,119 --> 00:35:20,360 his name? John? This fucking kid in New York. Kid, He 552 00:35:20,519 --> 00:35:23,119 was like twenty four, badass, fucking grower. Though this guy grew some 553 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:28,039 of those New York cactus guys. Man, you go to like cactus store 554 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:30,760 in New York. Some of those guys, if any of them are listening, 555 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:36,400 I want them to know I respect and appreciate you. They're fucking not 556 00:35:36,519 --> 00:35:40,440 only are they, you know, extremely kind cool guys. But they're they 557 00:35:40,559 --> 00:35:44,719 kind of remind me of like graffiti, theird friends of mine when I was 558 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:46,960 younger. But they're like mad about cacti, and they're a lot of them 559 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:51,960 are like really good fucking growers. How do you grow such good plants? 560 00:35:52,039 --> 00:35:58,320 This dude grew this well witchy like in a little like red beer cup, 561 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:04,599 you know, like a rap boyd cup. And it was one of the 562 00:36:04,679 --> 00:36:07,920 healthiest, well wishest zeedlings I've ever seen. And then, of course now 563 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:12,000 I'm slowly fucking it up, but I'm gonna hopefully get it to someone who 564 00:36:12,039 --> 00:36:14,480 can give it a better climate. It's just too hot and humid down here 565 00:36:14,519 --> 00:36:17,079 in South Texas. Man, it's just such a specialized extreme that I live 566 00:36:17,119 --> 00:36:22,719 in. But uh, you know, down here on the border. But 567 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,840 um, yeah, man, that's fucking got to check out Cactus Store if 568 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:30,400 you're in New York City. It's in Manhattan. It's a lower where is 569 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:32,800 it. I forget the name of the street. Is that an Orchard street? 570 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:37,960 Fuck? I don't know. But bunch of nice guys, you know, 571 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:42,719 bunch of nice guys. Shout out to Zack's sides out there in Louisiana. 572 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,480 Too. He's another nice guy, you know from Where is he? 573 00:36:45,639 --> 00:36:51,159 Where the fuck did he? He's a baton rouge. Yeah, Jesus Christ, 574 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:52,639 I'm gonna be such a bad old man, you know when I get 575 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:58,000 there, I'm gonna have pre dementia so bad if I live that long, 576 00:36:59,639 --> 00:37:04,719 So much trouble remembering names and shit sometimes now, But it's another reason to 577 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,760 not be smoking pot, you know, once a month for me, if 578 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:12,400 that. But yeah, Zach Sides and I went out to waffle House after 579 00:37:12,559 --> 00:37:15,559 a botanizing on the north side of Lake Poncer train and I hadn't been in 580 00:37:15,639 --> 00:37:19,519 a waffle house in a long time, you know. Waffle House just seems 581 00:37:20,079 --> 00:37:24,079 so inviting and just warmhearted and forgiving. You know. You really got to 582 00:37:24,119 --> 00:37:28,119 fuck up to get banned or thrown out from of a waffle house, you 583 00:37:28,199 --> 00:37:30,800 know. But I'm sure it's happened, all right, especially with the prevalence 584 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:36,039 of alcoholism in the South, you know. Anyway, h no offense to 585 00:37:36,079 --> 00:37:40,199 any alcoholics, all right. May you find the light one day, whatever 586 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,880 that light is, whether it's botany or a or whatever, the fuck, 587 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:49,159 just quit poisoning yourself with booze. It sucks, okay, anyway, we'll 588 00:37:49,199 --> 00:37:52,159 get right to the chase. Right now, we'll get to this conversation with 589 00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:57,320 doctor John Clark about the family gets near a ac of the order Lamy, 590 00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:02,039 Ali's all right, family to men any bang or species which you should certainly 591 00:38:02,119 --> 00:38:09,039 know about if you don't yet. So here we go. Well, I'm 592 00:38:09,079 --> 00:38:14,360 gonna show you what it's like where I'm not gonna show you part second. 593 00:38:15,199 --> 00:38:22,360 You know, I mean I think they're chalk. They got nice choky started 594 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,559 tagging each other and class come out. You know, I've seen a couple 595 00:38:24,559 --> 00:38:28,760 of nice things in the room before. Get a bunch of hippies, two 596 00:38:29,159 --> 00:38:35,599 child who come to che parting to get put down through night for eighties. 597 00:38:35,639 --> 00:38:39,840 They're about to go bay but they're not. Okay. Here we go doctor 598 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:45,960 John Clark specializing and a family gets near you as John, Where where are 599 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:51,719 you right now? Right now? I am in New Jersey, beautiful where 600 00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,639 I was born, Beautiful New Jersey. How far are you from Bayonne? 601 00:38:55,920 --> 00:39:00,239 Uh? I don't know they've been there. Yeah. Someone told me it 602 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:04,480 had a high Italian American population and it was someone working class and I probably 603 00:39:04,519 --> 00:39:07,360 like it, but I don't know that it's probably a dump but I kind 604 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,199 of like it dumps sometimes. But anyway, I'm married Italian. I'm married 605 00:39:10,199 --> 00:39:15,559 an Italian from New Jersey. Oh Jesus Christ, I'm sorry here. No, 606 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:17,840 it's great, it's great. But here's the thing. I'm on my 607 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,519 way to Florida. Oh shit, Okay, so what do you do? 608 00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,800 What are we doing in Florida? So I just took a job with the 609 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:30,400 Marie cell due to Tanic Gardens. Okay, where it is? They're in 610 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:35,039 Saraso to Florida. Okay, h And so what are you going to be 611 00:39:35,159 --> 00:39:39,239 what are you going to be doing there? So primarily promoting plant by diversity, 612 00:39:40,119 --> 00:39:47,239 Okay, field work, research, scholarship, outreach, education, like 613 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:51,599 all the fun stuff. No, that sounds that does sound pretty nice, 614 00:39:51,639 --> 00:39:53,320 man, that sounds like a nice opportunity. I would have loved to work 615 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:58,960 in about Tanic Garden, but I have a feeling I wouldn't last. I 616 00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,519 have trouble la thinking any kind of formal structure. You know, I'm much 617 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:07,360 It's much better for me just doing what I do now. And like we 618 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,079 were just finished shooting a TV show about long killing and just you know, 619 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:15,119 running my mouth and fucking filming plants and getting excited anything else. I'm I 620 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:21,880 kind of you know, I lacked the structure or I become a pr liability. 621 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,119 But um, anyway, oh that has never made a botanist like you. 622 00:40:27,199 --> 00:40:30,320 Yeah, I don't know. Do you like hops free trains and went 623 00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:34,360 all around the country? Oh yeah, yeah, I know. Yeah, 624 00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,320 I've probably got some sort of neurological condition, but I was never formally diagnosed. 625 00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:42,239 So but um, but anyway, okay, so let's talk because near 626 00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:44,840 ac, because that's what I wanted to talk to you about. So it 627 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:47,559 would seem fitting since you specialize in that family, that you're going to be 628 00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:57,119 working moving to a more tropical locale or subtropical localeum to study this family, 629 00:40:57,199 --> 00:41:01,559 especially a family that's got so much diverse in the Antilles in the Caribbean. 630 00:41:01,639 --> 00:41:06,719 And I understand you were just in the Dominican Republic, which is a which 631 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:08,119 is a country. I love, I mean, I love the whole island. 632 00:41:08,159 --> 00:41:12,360 I got a friend who's been living in Haiti and she's still there despite 633 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,760 the uh the turmoil, but um, god, damn the whole I mean, 634 00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:20,639 the diverse. I had no idea because I for some reason, like 635 00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:22,039 an idiot, you know, before I really looking at the botany there. 636 00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,559 I always thought that there. I didn't realize what was going on there, 637 00:41:25,639 --> 00:41:30,800 that there was such a range of elevations that they're basically stepping stones, you 638 00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:35,079 know, the Caribbean Islands are stepping stepping stones between South America and North America. 639 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,039 Um, I didn't realize, you know, the biodiversity that was there. 640 00:41:38,119 --> 00:41:40,639 So you've done a lot of work there, right, and so I 641 00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:45,880 guess let's talk about um well, first, yeah, let's let's talk about, 642 00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:46,960 you know, what you were doing in the dr and then let's just 643 00:41:47,079 --> 00:41:52,480 get right into the taxonomy and systematics of his family. Sure. So one 644 00:41:52,519 --> 00:41:57,920 of the things that is my specialty is the floor of northern South America, 645 00:41:58,079 --> 00:42:05,519 like Ecuador, Colombia, uh prew And I got involved in botany because I 646 00:42:05,559 --> 00:42:09,199 was a Peacecore volunteer, okay, and so I sort of got stuck in 647 00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:15,679 this incredible for us, not very far from Columbia, and everything was new 648 00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:21,760 to science, new trees, new rbaseous things, epiphytes. It was just 649 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:27,960 a it was it was like every single day was a surprise. Yeah, 650 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:32,000 that sounds incredible, That sounds like a dream. And what happened was my 651 00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:37,440 PhD advisor. He came down there on a botany trip. I took him 652 00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:44,559 around and we maintained contact. He was really kind to me, he was 653 00:42:44,599 --> 00:42:50,519 really excited about the collections, and that sort of sparked a professional relationship that 654 00:42:50,639 --> 00:42:57,079 continues to this day. So that botanist was Larry Scope at the Smithsonian. 655 00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:04,679 Spelled the last name, that's ka Ogg. Okay, Yeah, So he 656 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:09,239 was there and I ended up going to the Smithsonian. I worked Larry Scogue. 657 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:15,679 I worked at Patrick Haarendean at George Washington University, and then I took 658 00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:20,400 a job at the University of Alabama. And at the University of Alabama, 659 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:27,679 they started a program in Cuba. So I was going to Cuba one two 660 00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,880 times a year. Oh that sounds amazing. There's so much cool shit there. 661 00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:34,280 There's serpentine. Did you see me the serpentine abitante? Yes, yes, 662 00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:37,639 the serpentine was amazing. Oh my god, Oh my god. There's 663 00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:44,440 so many cool endemic gas. Fuck that's was there's gas. I'm the serpentine 664 00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,119 too. Well. Yeah. So one of the things that happened was my 665 00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:52,480 advisor, Larry Scogue. He had lumped a bunch of things that were serpentine 666 00:43:52,039 --> 00:43:55,599 and non serpentine. And then I went down there and I'm like, oh, 667 00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:59,519 no, no, no, these are totally different. Yeah, so 668 00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:05,400 divving them up, yeah, as one would. I'm a splitter as opposed 669 00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,079 to a lumper at heart, and especially you know with serpentine, there's just 670 00:44:08,199 --> 00:44:13,239 no way. I mean, serpentine basically causes speciation and plants, you know, 671 00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,079 as does gypsum and other weird you know, soil and geology types. 672 00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:22,480 Um. But god damn Cuba totally agree with that. But I just found 673 00:44:22,519 --> 00:44:27,719 this one exception when I was in the DR, and that's cadscenario reticulata. 674 00:44:29,599 --> 00:44:32,320 I saw it on serpentine. I saw it on limestone. I've seen it 675 00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:36,880 in Haiti, I've seen it in the DR. I've seen it in Cuba. 676 00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:42,559 I've seen it in Puerto Rico. They're all identical. Yeah, there 677 00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:45,280 was there was no there, you know what, Oh you know what? 678 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:47,960 I saw that one. Holy shit, I saw that one. Yeah. 679 00:44:49,079 --> 00:44:52,000 I saw it growing on serpentine. I got a photo right here and the 680 00:44:52,159 --> 00:44:58,039 ship maybe I'll use this serpentine. Yeah, but it was growing. Well, 681 00:44:58,039 --> 00:45:00,400 I was on the edge of a serpentine area. But I'm looking at 682 00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:02,760 this photo and it does look like serpentine rock. It's on I naturalists like 683 00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:07,360 if you go to eat, you go to explore, typing disneery ac type 684 00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,559 and observer Joey Santur it comes up. Yeah, it was growing as a 685 00:45:10,679 --> 00:45:14,800 chasmo fight out of a rock wall above a creek. I remember I was 686 00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:19,639 standing like spread eagle, one leg on a boulder, the other leg on 687 00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:23,039 this rock wall, with you know, just water beneath me, photographing this 688 00:45:23,199 --> 00:45:27,800 thing and these beautiful little red flowers. This is a hummingbird pollinated plant, 689 00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:34,400 obviously, right, I think, so yeah, with a long and I'll 690 00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:38,480 look for yours right here. So this is a generalist because I saw I 691 00:45:38,519 --> 00:45:40,880 remember looking it up because I thought it was this. I thought it was 692 00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:46,000 might be a specialist on serpentine, and uh yeah it wasn't. I mean 693 00:45:46,079 --> 00:45:50,000 I saw observations from all over the place, from non serpentine areas, et 694 00:45:50,039 --> 00:45:55,440 cetera. So okay, here it is that shit not coming very good picture. 695 00:45:57,519 --> 00:46:00,519 I was lucky that was the only one I saw blooming to But yeah, 696 00:46:00,559 --> 00:46:06,679 god damn, the diversity in the Dominican Republic for Gaznaria was nuts man, 697 00:46:07,079 --> 00:46:10,239 Just a lot of cool stuff. I saw that Columnia domingensis, which 698 00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:14,039 I saw you had a photo of on your Instagram too, with that weird 699 00:46:14,079 --> 00:46:16,639 ass calyx with those spikes on it. What's up with that? Okay? 700 00:46:16,679 --> 00:46:22,400 So what's really neat about Columbia? There are like no Columbia in Cuba. 701 00:46:24,039 --> 00:46:30,880 On Hispaniola, there are four species maybe on Hispaniola. Check it out on 702 00:46:30,639 --> 00:46:36,880 Jamaica more than fifteen species. So they had they had a big diversification there 703 00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:40,800 any idea why No, it's just the opposite because on all the other big 704 00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:49,400 islands, diversification happened in Gasnaria, ridd Fillum, But on Jamaica, diversification 705 00:46:49,519 --> 00:46:52,400 happened with Columbia. What is what is the bonny of Jamaica? Like, 706 00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:57,400 there is some cool stuff. I remember there was a was it a courtress? 707 00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:01,280 There was some cool malvid that I don't know. I just remember looking 708 00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:05,320 up some of the plants and the dr that also occurred in Jamaica or had 709 00:47:05,519 --> 00:47:09,199 congeners like the same same genus, different species in Jamaica, and it just 710 00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:12,360 I remember thinking about it. I was like, it seems like it might 711 00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:15,400 be a cool spot to go one day. You know, it's the one 712 00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:19,519 Cribbing Island. I haven't did a lot of Caribbean islands. Yeah, but 713 00:47:19,639 --> 00:47:22,519 that's the one that I really really want to visit. Yeah, it's nuts. 714 00:47:22,599 --> 00:47:27,079 I mean, it's it's just cool that you know, these they're basically 715 00:47:27,199 --> 00:47:30,480 stepping stones each island, just as you know, as of course islands, 716 00:47:30,639 --> 00:47:34,360 you get genetic isolation, you get speciation of course too. It's a great 717 00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:37,639 way to break up a population from you know, times of lower sea level 718 00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:42,400 to when I might may have been a contiguous population or there was you know, 719 00:47:42,599 --> 00:47:45,880 gene flow between uh what are now islands, and then of course the 720 00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:51,159 sea levels rise they become islands, you start getting a speciation whatever. I 721 00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:55,840 mean, it's just there's so much diversity and basically a relatively small geographic area. 722 00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:00,159 Um, you know Cuba, Puerto Rico, the d a are, 723 00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:04,960 uh, Jamaica, etc. Yeah, man, I don't know. And 724 00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:08,599 then there's fucking Bahamas too. Is No, it's Bermuda has its own is 725 00:48:08,599 --> 00:48:12,559 a bermuda with its own juniper species. We're getting a little left trick here, 726 00:48:12,599 --> 00:48:15,800 But yeah, I'm not I'm familiar with some of those other areas. 727 00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:21,280 I'm more familiar than ones. Scenarios are abundant. Yeah, I think Bermuda's 728 00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:24,679 way out in the middle of the Okay, here's the thing was so exciting, 729 00:48:25,639 --> 00:48:30,760 is haiti? Uh huh have you? There are so many things there 730 00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:37,320 that have not been documented in over a century. Very little botanical research has 731 00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:43,159 been done there, and there's still some forest because who was the guy doing 732 00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:45,280 there was a German bonus, right, was it Eckman that was doing a 733 00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:51,280 bunch of Yeah, he was doing a Swedish Oh Swedish Yeah, yeah, 734 00:48:51,559 --> 00:48:55,000 yeah, he was Swedish. And what's so cool in the dr If you 735 00:48:55,079 --> 00:49:00,360 go to like the Botanical Garden, or if you go to um is it 736 00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:06,039 called San Jose do'cah, you see in the middle of town there's a monument 737 00:49:07,679 --> 00:49:13,760 the Liberator for the Dominican Republic and right next to do art they eric no 738 00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:16,440 shit, really, how cool is that? They got a bodmist in it. 739 00:49:16,599 --> 00:49:20,239 Yeah that's cool man, that's it. I love that country. I 740 00:49:20,639 --> 00:49:23,519 just went there. I would just went there in a whim because, uh, 741 00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:29,719 my girl's sister was living there at the time, and so she was 742 00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:32,639 there for like a year or two, and so I went to I just 743 00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:35,920 I was like, and they were there one of the only countries letting people 744 00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:37,519 in during COVID. I was like, fuck, I'm gonna go. And 745 00:49:37,599 --> 00:49:40,280 then I learned they had cloud forests, And I mean, I love cloud 746 00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:45,599 forest because it's you know that that it's just such a diverse place, not 747 00:49:45,679 --> 00:49:50,920 too hot, not too cold, ample moisture, you know, total endemism. 748 00:49:51,039 --> 00:49:54,079 It's like a sky island basically, especially a cloud forest on an island. 749 00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:58,079 Um. And so yeah, I was just blown away, man, 750 00:49:58,119 --> 00:50:00,320 I mean, all the lobelias, the magnolia, there's so many fucking endemics 751 00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:04,679 and do Menican Republic blew my mind. But that's when I came across a 752 00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:08,639 lot of these gasniriads. Um. Yeah, man, I don't know. 753 00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:12,880 So so what have you? So? What were you? Uh? I 754 00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:15,000 guess you were in the demand? How many times you've been the dr What 755 00:50:15,079 --> 00:50:19,159 are you studying there? What are some of the main genera that you're looking 756 00:50:19,199 --> 00:50:23,480 at? This is my first trip, okay, Yeah, I'm mostly focused 757 00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:29,719 on Cuba. I did the trip to haiti Um and this is the first 758 00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:36,519 trip I've done under the very Selby Botanical Gardens. Mighty job. Okay, 759 00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:38,960 and how long were you wanting to go there? For a long time. 760 00:50:39,639 --> 00:50:45,719 I met pet Peguirdo, who was a director of the Botany department and he 761 00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:52,519 passed away from COVID. Oh shit, that's terrible. Class. I also 762 00:50:52,599 --> 00:50:57,719 met him and he also invited me, and every year we'd exchange emails. 763 00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:04,880 He's like, come down, come down. That dude tailed Orl is a 764 00:51:05,039 --> 00:51:07,480 fucking wizard man, he's and he's so nice. That dude hung out with 765 00:51:07,559 --> 00:51:12,159 me in the iberium for like an hour and a half on my last day 766 00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:16,400 there to help me identify everything that I saw, um and make sure I 767 00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:20,360 had identifications correct, et cetera. Because I made a bunch of videos and 768 00:51:20,679 --> 00:51:24,280 god, the Asteracy University there's nuts too, man, Holy hell, there's 769 00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:29,000 some really cool stuff I saw. I mean, there's a genus. What 770 00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:34,119 which one was it? There's a genius that grows there in uh in Cuba, 771 00:51:34,519 --> 00:51:37,119 it's in a couple other places. I think it's mostly Caribbean, but 772 00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:44,880 it used to be. I think it's in the Gagnatia tribe um or Gacknatia 773 00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:47,840 subfamily, but it's you know, it's one of those like really spiny um 774 00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:55,599 zerich adapted composites like a woody shrub. It was let me see, hold 775 00:51:55,599 --> 00:52:01,039 on, I can't remember. There's that. Man, here's an endemic genus. 776 00:52:01,519 --> 00:52:06,599 Yeah this this yeah, oh yeah, it was an Astrophia. That 777 00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:12,559 was I saw Anastrophia picard which has got these they gotta be hummingbird pollinated um 778 00:52:13,119 --> 00:52:17,840 flowers. But it's just and it's got like these bright white tomenttoast abaxeal surfaces, 779 00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:21,559 like these undersides that are just you know, it's totally and it was 780 00:52:21,599 --> 00:52:24,760 growing out of like bare limestone, like it's a total you know, because 781 00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:29,039 it was in It was a drier part of the island too, in the 782 00:52:29,159 --> 00:52:35,400 Sierra de Bajaruco like area western part of the country, right near the Haitian 783 00:52:35,519 --> 00:52:37,239 border, you know where it starts to dry out because you get all the 784 00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:40,519 rain coming from the northeast and so god damn it. Yeah, it was 785 00:52:42,159 --> 00:52:45,280 such a cool genus. But then there's an an Astrophia and Cuba two. 786 00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:49,159 It's one of those, you know, it's Cuba's got a lot of like 787 00:52:49,519 --> 00:52:54,320 area micro sites right, like more dry areas well. I don't know that 788 00:52:55,119 --> 00:52:59,480 they got a lot of serpentine. They got a lot of everything. Yeah, 789 00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:04,880 I would love it. Um. Yeah, I just haven't been there. 790 00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:08,920 I haven't been there since twenty eighteen. Damn was it hard to get 791 00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:12,199 in? Or how did you? How did you where'd you fly? Just 792 00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:14,559 fly from the US or you have to go through Mexico. I had friends 793 00:53:14,559 --> 00:53:16,719 who had to go through Mexico before. No, So here's the thing. 794 00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:22,400 I used to go through my old job, and I would go down under 795 00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:28,639 the AUSI sees of the University of Alabama. So I navigated all the rules 796 00:53:28,679 --> 00:53:34,400 and regulations under Bush, and then I navigated the new rules and regulations under 797 00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:37,840 Obama, and I even did it under Trump. And then things changed. 798 00:53:38,559 --> 00:53:42,920 You know, they got like a Havana syndrome. They've pulled the embassy. 799 00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:50,679 But in twenty seventeen, I brought about twelve students. Then we walked from 800 00:53:50,679 --> 00:53:54,960 Guantanamo to the north coast, right through Serpentine Jesus Christ. So you were 801 00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:59,320 like a couple of days hike or what was it? Yeah? Week? 802 00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:02,360 Shit, God, it's amazing though. Damn. How did you say were 803 00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:07,159 you collecting? Were you collecting two? Or what? Yeah? We collected? 804 00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:13,519 Had you worked with three different park agencies? And it was a new 805 00:54:14,159 --> 00:54:16,760 tourist route they were opening up, and I jumped on it. I was 806 00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:19,599 like, oh, we've got to do this. Wait, how did you 807 00:54:19,639 --> 00:54:22,159 carry the presses? Tell me you got a donkey? Did you get a 808 00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:25,400 donkey? Yeah, you did get a donkey. No, did you travel 809 00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:30,679 with you travel with a donkey. Here's what I do when I take students. 810 00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:35,400 I have I build into my budget. I got like a thousand dollars 811 00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:40,639 to go to Cospus huh. And I anticipate and plan on breakfast and dinner 812 00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:46,000 being served and then everything else we bring. Yeah, and we were able 813 00:54:46,039 --> 00:54:52,960 to go into Cuba about fifteen hundred towns. Uh huh. We brought in 814 00:54:53,079 --> 00:54:58,800 solar panels, brought it into solar portable suitcases. How did you carry all 815 00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:06,039 this shit? Oh? We had fifteen fifteen students, three teachers, so 816 00:55:06,159 --> 00:55:08,639 we were able to bring stuff. Who's who's carrying the solar panels? Though, 817 00:55:08,679 --> 00:55:10,760 that seems kind of like a pa. You didn't have a donkey? 818 00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:15,360 Huh? So what happened was are you opposed through a donkey? At any 819 00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:19,199 point? Could you get a donkey in que? Like if I went to 820 00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:22,880 Cuba, could I get a donkey? Yeah? You can get one to 821 00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:24,400 like you just work with the pars. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, 822 00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:27,599 but you guys didn't have a donkey. You were just carrying everything. 823 00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:30,400 No. No, what we did is we put all our stuff on the 824 00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:35,599 donkeys. Oh you did, you had the donkeys? Yeah? Okay, 825 00:55:35,679 --> 00:55:37,760 cool, Sorry, I'm fixated on the donkeys. They just used to see 826 00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:42,119 thoraled donkeys all the time in the in the Majave and so you know, 827 00:55:42,199 --> 00:55:44,599 and they're doing they're sucking up the landscape out there. So I thought, 828 00:55:44,599 --> 00:55:46,239 well, you know, maybe you could just go out there and you know, 829 00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:50,840 just pirate one, you know, and befriended. But anyway, so 830 00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:52,320 that so that is, that's the way to do it. So you you 831 00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:57,800 basically hiked. Was there a trail or was it? Just? How that 832 00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:00,599 sounds so fucking incredible. It sounds like such a because you're going, I 833 00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:04,920 mean, the stuff you're seeing. Did you you probably saw a stuff that 834 00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:10,079 hadn't been described yet. Huh. That's a good question. Um, unless 835 00:56:10,159 --> 00:56:16,760 Eckman got it? Really, what was it? Ye? Damn? Yeah, 836 00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:21,960 you describe it yet? Not yet? No? What was the habitat 837 00:56:22,639 --> 00:56:25,159 Serpentine? It was a serpentine. It was not in serpentine. It was 838 00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:31,840 in limestone on limestone. Still sounds pretty cool, though, what's that? 839 00:56:36,159 --> 00:56:40,639 How do you spell it? B o n e o n n e t 840 00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:52,400 t I b o n n e t t i A b o n two 841 00:56:52,639 --> 00:57:01,639 ends two tasso here it is. It's that's Oh there we go, okay, 842 00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:04,400 yeah, just one tea? Well, what the fuck is that? 843 00:57:04,519 --> 00:57:09,599 That's weird? Jesus Christ, very cool, very unique in Cuba. Yeah, 844 00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:13,320 two and one tea? Holy shit? Where have I heard of this 845 00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:16,800 before? Yeah? Oh you know what, maybe given us tell me about 846 00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:22,519 it. Mal piggy Alis is the order family bonetti ac. Yeah, given 847 00:57:22,599 --> 00:57:24,679 us tell me about this. So what's up? What's up with this genus? 848 00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:29,119 I mean, this is a pretty weird one. Huh. It is 849 00:57:29,159 --> 00:57:34,239 so cool. It's just all over that area we walked through. M it's 850 00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:37,559 like a woody shrub. What's do you remember what species it was? Cu 851 00:57:37,679 --> 00:57:42,000 Bensis? It could I can't remember. I can go back and check. 852 00:57:42,239 --> 00:57:45,719 God, what a weird man. That whole order maul piggy Alis is huge 853 00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:53,280 one then I remember in Ecuador is niki Lata? Yeah? So you were 854 00:57:53,360 --> 00:58:00,320 were you in cloud forests in Ecuador? What elevation? So mostly try to 855 00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:05,719 work somewhere in the lowlands and in the cloud forest and in the lowland western 856 00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:10,960 forest. Yeah, cloud try to do one trip to Ecuador and a trip 857 00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:17,079 to Cuba, sort of the two areas that I was interested in. So 858 00:58:17,239 --> 00:58:21,199 okay, well, really quick, let's talk before we before I forget, 859 00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:24,639 let's talk about the family gets near the ac uh, you know, basically 860 00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:29,079 where where it is in the angiosperm plant family tree. What's cool about it? 861 00:58:29,159 --> 00:58:31,320 It's an order lamy Alies, right, which is same order as the 862 00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:37,159 paintbrush family or a banksea, same order as the salvia family, you know, 863 00:58:37,199 --> 00:58:40,559 the min family lamy ac namesake of the lamy Alies and these. This 864 00:58:40,719 --> 00:58:47,360 whole order is characterized like ninety five percent right zygomorphic flowers, bilaterally symmetrical flowers, 865 00:58:49,159 --> 00:58:54,400 uh, opposite leaves generally speaking, Um, what else am I missing? 866 00:58:54,519 --> 00:59:01,000 Probably something? Huh? Well, order is the largest flowering plant family 867 00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:07,000 that doesn't make it north of Mexico. Okay, you're talking about the family. 868 00:59:07,519 --> 00:59:09,159 Okay, I was talking about order lamia Alies. But let's let's cover 869 00:59:09,239 --> 00:59:15,760 everything. Yeah. Yeah, And within the lamilies, this group is conspicuous. 870 00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:22,239 You walk into any cloud forest andian forest and you notice them because niads 871 00:59:22,239 --> 00:59:24,800 are hairy generally right, That's how I've always tend to be hairy. They 872 00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:32,639 tend to be primarily epiphytic, long tubular flowers, all sorts of imbarrations, 873 00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:43,760 and the floral diversity is incredible. I say it. It's a taxonomist's nightmare, 874 00:59:44,559 --> 00:59:53,000 an evolutionary biologists dream. The level of convergence and the diversification and all 875 00:59:53,079 --> 00:59:59,159 the different types of floral types. You just got them everywhere. What about 876 00:59:59,199 --> 01:00:04,480 pollinations drums, I mean a lot of hummingbird pollination. You've probably got assumed 877 01:00:04,519 --> 01:00:07,719 beat pollination at the at the lower elevations. Any moth or bat pollination at 878 01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:12,679 them. Yeah, you get some bat pollination. But here's the thing. 879 01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:20,360 Wherever they're abundant, the floor morphology that used to be considered unique for certain 880 01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:27,599 groups, we've discovered evolved independently in that group, in that geographic region. 881 01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:30,920 So that's what you're talking about. Lots of convergence is there's just that you 882 01:00:31,039 --> 01:00:36,400 get similar things evolving multiple times in this family. Yeah. Like, for 883 01:00:36,519 --> 01:00:43,360 example, I was working on a monographic revision for my dissertation on ali plectus. 884 01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:47,719 Start looking at these things, and I think anyone would have noticed this 885 01:00:49,639 --> 01:00:52,639 if they were in their back yard, but I spent a lot of time 886 01:00:52,679 --> 01:00:54,639 in the field. I was looking at these things in the field, and 887 01:00:54,719 --> 01:01:00,199 I was photographing them, and I noticed that a lot of flowers or were 888 01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:04,800 super eight. They flipped upside down, right, Yeah, like, uh, 889 01:01:05,039 --> 01:01:07,280 you know, like some some members of the pea family, or you 890 01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:12,400 know, orchids. A lot of orchids do that, or kids some of 891 01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:15,719 the lobeliads, right right. I think it's very easy. Wasn't documented or 892 01:01:15,719 --> 01:01:21,239 it wasn't well documented. And what was interesting, So by were super eight, 893 01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:23,280 It's like if you have a six and you flip it upside down, 894 01:01:23,679 --> 01:01:28,760 it looks like a nine, right right, right, So there super eight 895 01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:35,400 flower evolved independently in the Caribbean, in the Andies, in southeastern Brazil. 896 01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:38,679 And what's the adaptive benefit of that? I mean, is it just kind 897 01:01:38,719 --> 01:01:43,239 of by chance or was there a reason it stuck around evolutionarily speaking, or 898 01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:49,639 what? I have no idea. I tried suitting several grand proposals to look 899 01:01:49,679 --> 01:01:53,199 at it, and they never got fun. Yeah, son other things, 900 01:01:53,559 --> 01:01:57,960 Well, let's we'll get back to flowers. I certainly want to talk about 901 01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:00,159 that, because the flowers on some of these are fucking wild. I mean, 902 01:02:00,199 --> 01:02:01,599 I'm looking at my eye and at now and I've just got there's like 903 01:02:02,039 --> 01:02:07,360 they're brilliantly colored, just really incredible lots of you know there a lot of 904 01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:12,119 them are elongated like tubular. But let's talk about this is the family of 905 01:02:12,159 --> 01:02:16,280 African violets, right and everyone you know who's got any familiarity at all with 906 01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:21,039 plants probably knows African violence. I know I was beaten over the head with 907 01:02:21,119 --> 01:02:23,159 them. My mom used to grow them in a window the window sill in 908 01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:28,920 Chicago all the time. And so African violets have that really weird leaf texture. 909 01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:30,840 What would you call that? That like, I don't know if this 910 01:02:31,559 --> 01:02:35,440 you know, Eli Plectus has it too. I'm looking at one right now. 911 01:02:35,559 --> 01:02:39,320 It's like this. The texture and the service of the leaf is not 912 01:02:39,519 --> 01:02:44,400 like quite bull eight, but like almost bubbly, like it bubbles up a 913 01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:46,800 little bit and then of course got hairs on it. Um. Yeah, 914 01:02:47,079 --> 01:02:54,079 how would you describe that? I would say, Harry Harry, tomatoes, 915 01:02:54,920 --> 01:03:02,000 Chebacca like Chewbacca, like Wookie fuzzy. So these are and so what is 916 01:03:02,039 --> 01:03:07,199 the bull eight would normally make me think high rainfall because it tends to shed 917 01:03:08,199 --> 01:03:12,760 shed water, I guess. But then the hairs make me think seasonally dry 918 01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:17,440 because they were very hot at least. Yeah. Um, what's the adaptive 919 01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:21,639 benefit of bull eight textures? Yeah? Like, if you look up bully 920 01:03:21,639 --> 01:03:27,280 in the dictionaries is covered with rounded swellings like blisters. What is the adaptive 921 01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:29,840 benefit of bull eight leaves? You got? I saw a lot of bullet 922 01:03:29,920 --> 01:03:35,639 leaves and I was in New Caledonia among totally unrelated plant families. I don't 923 01:03:35,679 --> 01:03:39,719 know, but if you look at where they've diversified and evolved the most, 924 01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:45,320 like where you see the most disnaryads. Yeah, you're talking went forests, 925 01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:51,079 western slopes of northern Ecuador. In southern Colombia, you can see like forty 926 01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:55,679 species easily in a day. Jesus Christ, and things in those areas tend 927 01:03:55,760 --> 01:04:04,880 to be bull eight harry and big leaves. Yeah, sosias. They can 928 01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:10,440 have small leaves, especially if they're small plants, but they do tend to 929 01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:15,960 be bully and extremely hairy. And what about I mean chemistry of them because 930 01:04:15,960 --> 01:04:17,719 a lot of a lot of members of lamy alies, I mean, everyone 931 01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:24,360 knows how how much you know? You know time and oregano and fucking salvia 932 01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:27,679 and mint can can stink. And you know a lot of members of urban 933 01:04:27,719 --> 01:04:30,039 a c which is also when lamy alias do that too. What's the what's 934 01:04:30,079 --> 01:04:33,199 the phytochemistry of gasnari ac? Like, is it notable at all? Or 935 01:04:33,239 --> 01:04:38,159 is it just kind of man or what? Well, not much about it. 936 01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:42,719 But there is one called Columnia medicine elis, and it's thought that that 937 01:04:43,119 --> 01:04:47,480 plant has some sort of ability to help cure a snake bites. Oh weird, 938 01:04:47,639 --> 01:04:50,519 So it might have something, it might have something interesting in there. 939 01:04:50,599 --> 01:04:57,280 So and where's that from? Calumnia? The Calumnia species, So Columbia is 940 01:04:57,280 --> 01:05:02,360 a change group, probably most of her in Columbia and Ecuador. Um, 941 01:05:02,599 --> 01:05:08,280 what else the group in general? One thing about it, Oh, they 942 01:05:08,360 --> 01:05:14,000 tend to have leaves that are red tipped. Calumnia does. Yeah, so 943 01:05:14,159 --> 01:05:19,719 like it's like taking a dagger and having blood at dead And I think it's 944 01:05:19,719 --> 01:05:26,519 one of the reasons why there's a lot of medicinal uses. Yeah, okay, 945 01:05:26,679 --> 01:05:29,280 so it might be. It might be kind of a placebo thing because 946 01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:33,119 people see that and makes them think of god knows what, some sort of 947 01:05:33,239 --> 01:05:39,400 you know, medical operation or something related to blood or something like that probably. 948 01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:43,880 Well, it's like a doctrine of signatures. Yeah, that field of 949 01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:49,400 biology that we don't do anymore. Sort of like God created the plant so 950 01:05:49,519 --> 01:05:55,239 that humans could use it to cure some ailment. It was the botanist job 951 01:05:55,320 --> 01:05:58,519 to figure out what that was, right right, Yeah, So if it 952 01:05:58,599 --> 01:06:04,320 looks like a leaf in blood, it's gonna help with menstruation, right right 953 01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:10,760 right? These yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, so but uh but 954 01:06:11,400 --> 01:06:14,440 some of them, I mean, some members of Gis near Ac have really 955 01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:17,840 pungent smells to the leaves. Right, They've got glandular glandular hairs, glandular 956 01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:21,639 trick combs. Well, you know, they just not have a lot of 957 01:06:21,719 --> 01:06:29,960 a roma, wasn't there. Maybe it's maybe I'm thinking of a different general. 958 01:06:30,719 --> 01:06:35,079 But think about it. The flowers are mostly purpollented, uh, very 959 01:06:35,119 --> 01:06:40,079 little sick. What about ple trantis? That's uh, that's kisnary. Isn't 960 01:06:40,079 --> 01:06:44,559 it like transus? I don't know that one. Let's see, yeah, 961 01:06:44,599 --> 01:06:46,599 it was it was one that we It was you know, thrown around. 962 01:06:46,679 --> 01:06:50,039 It's not native to North America. I think it's mostly South America. But 963 01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:58,039 uh oh that's all that's lamy Ac. Okay, Shit, Okay, pardon 964 01:06:58,159 --> 01:07:00,760 me. Um, I don't know. I thought that was Gizar, I 965 01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:03,840 guess because I've probably never seen it flowering, but that was one that was 966 01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:08,920 just the number seeing in gardens a lot in the Bay area. So um 967 01:07:09,119 --> 01:07:11,639 yeah. Anyway, all right, disregard. So okay, So, so 968 01:07:11,880 --> 01:07:15,079 you you were in Dominican Republic, you were in Cuba. I guess how 969 01:07:15,119 --> 01:07:18,239 did you get started in gaznari Ac? Like what what you know? What 970 01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:23,119 blew your mind about this whole group? Was it going to South America and 971 01:07:23,159 --> 01:07:28,440 seeing him there or what? So? I was a forester as an undergrad, 972 01:07:29,440 --> 01:07:34,119 and I took dendrology. I had to learn every single tree in Vermont, 973 01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:39,800 where I did my undergraduate degree. And then I went into the Peace 974 01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:46,400 Corps and I got stationed in this remote forest in western Ecuador in the Magician 975 01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:53,119 Dual Mountains, and it was like every tree I couldn't figure out and it 976 01:07:53,239 --> 01:07:58,400 drove me crazy. And I guess from there, I started collecting plants. 977 01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:01,679 I was working with a national or Barium of Ecuador. Were you into body 978 01:08:01,719 --> 01:08:04,239 already at this point, like did you have an interest in plants or what? 979 01:08:05,239 --> 01:08:11,599 So? I worked with an NGO, non governmental organization that used science 980 01:08:12,199 --> 01:08:16,640 to promote the conservation of different forests. And that science they used was floristic 981 01:08:16,720 --> 01:08:21,439 inventorians and biodiversity. And so I was working with the National or Barium of 982 01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:27,880 Ecuador. I was working with the Hot Hot Tunsta Foundation, and we were 983 01:08:28,119 --> 01:08:34,600 using inventory work to promote the conservation of this one area and we were able 984 01:08:34,640 --> 01:08:40,159 to use the data that we generated to have that area of protecting nationally. 985 01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:44,880 It became a national park. Oh nice. And so some of those plants 986 01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:48,600 I collected and I was sending them to Missouri Botanical Garden, the Spithsonian New 987 01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:56,319 York Botanical Garden, would I would reach out to all sorts of taxonomists and 988 01:08:56,600 --> 01:09:01,479 against naryc. That included Larry Scope, okay, and he was receptive. 989 01:09:02,319 --> 01:09:06,279 He was very eager to see the collections. He was very helpful to identify 990 01:09:08,239 --> 01:09:12,079 our gisnari ads. And it just one thing led to another and I ended 991 01:09:12,159 --> 01:09:16,119 up working with them. And so that's how you basically got got bit by 992 01:09:16,199 --> 01:09:24,119 the gisari bug and then and then just started really exploring their diversity that and 993 01:09:24,199 --> 01:09:27,600 they're also just beautiful. I was very attracted to the group. Yeah, 994 01:09:27,680 --> 01:09:31,319 and I'm really in the photography, and at one point during my peace score 995 01:09:31,439 --> 01:09:38,319 time, a photographer came down to Ecuador, taught me some skills, gave 996 01:09:38,399 --> 01:09:42,800 me a camera, and then I started photographing things like crazy. Yeah, 997 01:09:42,840 --> 01:09:45,279 they really are fucking nuts too. I'm looking at it. I don't even 998 01:09:45,319 --> 01:09:53,600 know how you pronounced this genus asian nanthus acanthis yeah, but uh, I'm 999 01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:57,399 looking at I don't know what speed. I think it's poker a scanthis poker. 1000 01:09:57,439 --> 01:10:01,359 It's got a purple calyx covered in hair. But it's somewhat shiny too, 1001 01:10:01,479 --> 01:10:05,880 so I guess it's probably the trichomust probably have you know, some sort 1002 01:10:05,920 --> 01:10:12,239 of uh, you know, they're amitting some sort of I guess they're just 1003 01:10:12,359 --> 01:10:15,800 glandular. And then they've got these bright red corollas that are shaped like little 1004 01:10:15,880 --> 01:10:19,800 mouths with you know, the stamens in the style poking out at the top. 1005 01:10:19,880 --> 01:10:26,079 There's I'm looking at escan Atha speciosa or species systemas. What is this 1006 01:10:26,199 --> 01:10:32,640 speciosis? So beautiful. One of my goals is I want to promote each 1007 01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:38,439 one of those in a different area so that the world knows that there's other 1008 01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:43,479 things besides organs, right right, what so escananthas. Where is Where is 1009 01:10:43,680 --> 01:10:47,039 Escanatha speciosis from? Is that old world or new world or what? That's 1010 01:10:47,079 --> 01:10:50,680 an old world? That's tropical Asia? Correct, Yeah, that's right. 1011 01:10:51,399 --> 01:10:57,479 There's a guy, Dave Middleton. He's at the Singapore Botanical Garden. He's 1012 01:10:57,640 --> 01:11:01,000 dedicated most of his career in life to work. God, this is nuts, 1013 01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:03,359 are they? I wonder if this one's protenderous. I'm looking at the 1014 01:11:03,399 --> 01:11:09,359 stamens. They look all withered, and then that that stigma is huge and 1015 01:11:09,560 --> 01:11:14,800 like bulbous and and you know, basically bright white, like very much still 1016 01:11:14,880 --> 01:11:17,600 turgid and alive. Um, just poking out of this flower. I wonder 1017 01:11:17,640 --> 01:11:20,399 what the hell pollinates that too. It's gotta be bird pollination of some kind 1018 01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:28,600 towers, so they'll they'll be staminate first. They're releasing pollen first, and 1019 01:11:28,600 --> 01:11:31,000 then the stamens wither and then that style and stigma come out or what. 1020 01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:38,600 Yeah. But the thing is we don't know. No one's done extensive studies 1021 01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:42,399 on that. So this is an understudied family. Why why is that? 1022 01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:46,439 I think every group you look at in the tropics, yeah, study Yeah, 1023 01:11:47,079 --> 01:11:56,680 unless it upside down flowers, anyone would have seen that, but not 1024 01:11:56,840 --> 01:12:00,279 many people studied the group. Yeah, yeah, it's true. Other thing, 1025 01:12:01,159 --> 01:12:09,920 every single group that existed as a genus twenty years ago is no longer 1026 01:12:10,199 --> 01:12:15,640 considered modify letting. So there's basically a whole bunch of splitting going on in 1027 01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:20,880 this family. Is people take a closer look at him. Splitting and convergence. 1028 01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:29,880 I think convergent evolution is one of the most exciting things in evolutionary biology 1029 01:12:30,560 --> 01:12:32,560 and body. What is it? What is it about? I mean, 1030 01:12:32,600 --> 01:12:35,119 I agree with you too, but let's hear your piece on it. What's 1031 01:12:35,199 --> 01:12:40,680 what do you find so fascinating about it? Okay, so think about this 1032 01:12:40,800 --> 01:12:46,640 way. I've heard a writer once say that he didn't like it when someone 1033 01:12:46,640 --> 01:12:53,239 would say to him, did you know a picture is worth a thousand words? 1034 01:12:54,680 --> 01:13:00,960 And his response was, a metaphor is worth a thousand pictures. I 1035 01:13:00,079 --> 01:13:08,079 think a conversion it's like a thousand metaphors. I mean, it's it is. 1036 01:13:08,479 --> 01:13:13,279 It's remarkable the same I mean, and I study that obviously with deserts. 1037 01:13:13,319 --> 01:13:16,520 That's something that's always fascinated me as you see the same thing evolving in 1038 01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:23,479 the same environment in completely unrelated plant families. You know, like drastically unrelated 1039 01:13:23,520 --> 01:13:27,640 plant families, like drastically different whether you know, classic case for deserts would 1040 01:13:27,680 --> 01:13:31,079 be cacti and upbs, right like they both look I mean there they look 1041 01:13:31,159 --> 01:13:34,920 so much alike that people that don't you know, study plants or no much 1042 01:13:35,239 --> 01:13:42,079 or aren't like botany, people often confuse columnar or spiny euphorbia for cacti, 1043 01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:45,560 you know, and in places like La where they're grown outside a lot. 1044 01:13:45,680 --> 01:13:48,319 You know, it's it's uh, it really just runs home the fact that 1045 01:13:48,399 --> 01:13:53,840 you know, the environment, which consists of and everything from geology to climate, 1046 01:13:53,960 --> 01:13:58,479 to pollinators to what kinds of herbivores are lurking around, et cetera, 1047 01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:02,560 environment is doing this election here. The environment is doing the the you know, 1048 01:14:02,640 --> 01:14:11,039 it's basically dictating the evolutionary trajectory of the organisms that that grow within it. 1049 01:14:11,199 --> 01:14:14,319 You know, oh, I totally agree. And you know what my 1050 01:14:14,359 --> 01:14:20,640 favorite exhibit is that got me totally excited about convergence. The Desert Museum in 1051 01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:24,560 Tucson, Arizona. Oh no, shit, that's yeah, that's a really 1052 01:14:24,640 --> 01:14:30,319 great, amazing They have that that display what you just mentioned. They have 1053 01:14:30,439 --> 01:14:34,960 the u forms from Africa and the cacti from the Sonoran desert and you see 1054 01:14:35,680 --> 01:14:40,159 that they look almost identical. Yeah, you're I'll be in the deserts of 1055 01:14:40,279 --> 01:14:44,159 Namibia and I'll be in the deserts of California, and you see similar traits 1056 01:14:44,199 --> 01:14:46,479 come out among plants. They start turning blue. They've got they're so covered 1057 01:14:46,520 --> 01:14:51,880 in tricombs and hairs that they've got almost as like white or blue sheen to 1058 01:14:53,039 --> 01:14:56,479 them. Lots of hairs, or they'll have lots of wax too. That's 1059 01:14:56,479 --> 01:15:00,159 another coping strategy for heat and aridity is to just develop a thick cuticle. 1060 01:15:01,000 --> 01:15:03,600 Um, it's it's really cool, man, I mean, and then you 1061 01:15:03,680 --> 01:15:06,479 just think, I mean basically I always think of evolution like a filter, 1062 01:15:06,680 --> 01:15:11,880 right, Like the the filter is the environment that's what's doing this selecting. 1063 01:15:11,960 --> 01:15:15,239 And so all these different you know, because you've got gen genetic recombination going 1064 01:15:15,319 --> 01:15:20,199 on, uh you know, through to sexual reproduction. You know half you 1065 01:15:20,319 --> 01:15:27,000 know, half a half a set of chromosomes from each parent, you know, 1066 01:15:27,319 --> 01:15:31,079 basically shaking up the card stack again, you know, shuffling the card 1067 01:15:31,159 --> 01:15:35,640 deck, and you never know what comes out different, different, basically different, 1068 01:15:35,720 --> 01:15:42,319 you know, genetic combinations of copies of genes, some will thrive, 1069 01:15:42,520 --> 01:15:46,960 some won't thrive. What determines what thrives, what survives, what dies out, 1070 01:15:47,159 --> 01:15:50,159 what you know, et cetera, is that filter. Everything passes through 1071 01:15:50,199 --> 01:15:54,760 that filter. That filter is the environment. Whether that's yeah, like I 1072 01:15:54,840 --> 01:16:00,239 said, presence of you know, pollinators, which will choose what what it's 1073 01:16:00,439 --> 01:16:03,239 reproduced the most in terms of plants, or you know, herbivore is what 1074 01:16:03,359 --> 01:16:09,079 gets gnawn down the quickest, or geology, you know what plants can cope 1075 01:16:09,119 --> 01:16:12,960 with the fucked up soil that's whether you know that's weathered out of that rock, 1076 01:16:13,319 --> 01:16:18,560 etc. But See, the cool thing is when you discover the convergence, 1077 01:16:19,199 --> 01:16:25,119 then you can start asking those interesting questions. And that's just so powerful 1078 01:16:25,159 --> 01:16:32,000 about phylogeny, right right, And it's just such a great exciting field and 1079 01:16:32,119 --> 01:16:35,880 it's such a nice time to be involved in that sort of work. Yeah, 1080 01:16:35,920 --> 01:16:40,920 and it's nuts too because it's DNA is the key to everything in terms 1081 01:16:40,960 --> 01:16:45,119 of understanding these relationships, right because before all we had was I guess, 1082 01:16:45,319 --> 01:16:49,520 chemical synapomorphies for a while, but you know, basically you know, shared 1083 01:16:49,960 --> 01:16:55,920 shared chemistry due to shared ancestry. But before that, which I think that 1084 01:16:56,039 --> 01:16:58,319 was like mostly like seventies that was going on. But before that it was 1085 01:16:58,319 --> 01:17:01,199 just morphological. It was just these looks similar, so we're gonna we're gonna 1086 01:17:01,239 --> 01:17:03,640 put them together. And then DNA of course turned out, yeah, a 1087 01:17:03,720 --> 01:17:09,359 lot of that looking similar was just due to convergent evolution. It was a 1088 01:17:09,520 --> 01:17:16,880 similar evolutionary response to a similar environment or just things evolving independently, you know, 1089 01:17:16,920 --> 01:17:19,800 and it really shed light on these things. So, yeah's it broke 1090 01:17:19,920 --> 01:17:24,880 up. You know, it basically made us realize, Yeah, a lot 1091 01:17:24,920 --> 01:17:27,720 of shit isn't monophyletic. We got to split it up. What's going on 1092 01:17:27,920 --> 01:17:30,640 here. There's there's been a fork in this road of this family tree. 1093 01:17:31,039 --> 01:17:34,640 There's been a split, you know, multiple times among different generia, like 1094 01:17:34,760 --> 01:17:38,840 like the genus strepped Tantus and brassa casey, which is, you know, 1095 01:17:39,880 --> 01:17:44,840 most of them are serpentine endemics, not all of them, but large a 1096 01:17:44,960 --> 01:17:47,479 large proportion of them. And it turned out that's not all the result of 1097 01:17:47,520 --> 01:17:51,800 one evolutionary event, which was a tolerance to serpentine. It's serpentine tolerance has 1098 01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:56,800 evolved like five or six times in the genus strepped Tantus, which was figured 1099 01:17:56,840 --> 01:18:00,800 out by looking at DNA so so you've been secreencing a lot of these gives 1100 01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:04,079 nary ads, I assume, and basically figuring this style realizing that, holy 1101 01:18:04,159 --> 01:18:08,159 shit, there's a lot of there was a lot of splitting, Like a 1102 01:18:08,239 --> 01:18:12,680 lot of these groups aren't a lot of these clades aren't monophyletic. It was 1103 01:18:12,760 --> 01:18:17,159 worked out that way, and I guess in one way, we're fortunate that's 1104 01:18:17,159 --> 01:18:24,920 the monophyletic groups doesn't result in a lot of lumping. It's it's been conveniently 1105 01:18:24,960 --> 01:18:30,000 split. Yeah, the world in the Old World, it's a totally different 1106 01:18:30,039 --> 01:18:34,039 game. What's different about what's different about the East side of the Atlantic Ocean, 1107 01:18:35,119 --> 01:18:43,880 Well, the groups mostly are monophyletic Old World versus New World. But 1108 01:18:44,000 --> 01:18:49,039 in the Old World you had it's extensive lumping. Yeah, so like for 1109 01:18:49,159 --> 01:18:57,479 example, Streptocarpus now includes Saint Paulia, So there's been a there's been a 1110 01:18:57,560 --> 01:19:00,920 bunch more lumping. Basically, it just worked out that way. You had 1111 01:19:00,960 --> 01:19:08,119 these like large sort of paraphyletic grades, these lineages that evolved and diversified to 1112 01:19:08,239 --> 01:19:14,039 be very unique, but they were embedded in paraphyletic groups. Yeah, so 1113 01:19:14,239 --> 01:19:16,640 that that just didn't really happen in the New World. Have you have you 1114 01:19:16,760 --> 01:19:20,319 done much I mean, have you done much work? And you know in 1115 01:19:21,079 --> 01:19:27,920 Asia, South Africa, etcetera. Is it mostly been neotropical or what mostly 1116 01:19:28,159 --> 01:19:32,359 tropical? Yeah, and it happens that the groups are monophyletic. They're in 1117 01:19:32,399 --> 01:19:38,760 the New World tropics and they have them being really cool places. It's one 1118 01:19:38,800 --> 01:19:43,399 of the exciting things about working on the group gets working cool people, gets 1119 01:19:43,479 --> 01:19:45,920 going cool places. So tell me beautiful, Yeah, tell me about the 1120 01:19:46,039 --> 01:19:48,279 So tell me more about the cube. You guys are out there for a 1121 01:19:48,359 --> 01:19:55,399 week. Were you just collecting everything? Where you just collecting gasniads? Did 1122 01:19:55,439 --> 01:19:58,000 you? Was it a pain in the askt in permits? Or was Cuba 1123 01:19:58,159 --> 01:20:00,600 cool with you guys? Or I mean you guys were working with the some 1124 01:20:00,680 --> 01:20:03,760 of the you know, the botanic institutions there. I take it it was 1125 01:20:03,880 --> 01:20:10,319 challenging. I'll say that here and here's the other thing. Every time they 1126 01:20:10,479 --> 01:20:15,880 established a professional relationship with the Cuban botanist. Yeah, it's like they left 1127 01:20:15,920 --> 01:20:26,880 body all the So many the good botanists abandoned Cuba. They abandoned their careers 1128 01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:31,199 because of so little opportunity. Yeah. What they don't fund the science is 1129 01:20:31,239 --> 01:20:33,520 there that as much, or they don't fund the natural sciences or what. 1130 01:20:34,640 --> 01:20:39,600 It's just tough because if you're working with a government agency and you're making like 1131 01:20:39,760 --> 01:20:43,640 thirty dollars a month, Yeah, you know what I mean, it's it's 1132 01:20:43,720 --> 01:20:48,800 just hard. Fuck that sucks. Yeah. But I also am incredibly impressed 1133 01:20:49,560 --> 01:20:56,479 with the botanists, the Cuban botanists, yeah, because they're so dedicated and 1134 01:20:56,560 --> 01:20:59,680 they're so passionate about them. Yeah, there's such cool stuff though, I 1135 01:21:00,000 --> 01:21:02,520 imagine that you know, there's some really there's got to be some really dedicated 1136 01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:05,359 people, because it's it just seems like such an easy floor to fall in 1137 01:21:05,439 --> 01:21:09,039 love with. Man, there's just so much cool. How many endemics are 1138 01:21:09,079 --> 01:21:14,640 in Cuba do you any idea? So I think about Jesus you compared to 1139 01:21:14,760 --> 01:21:20,000 like Hawaii, I think it's endemicity. Yeah, so it's high, um, 1140 01:21:20,399 --> 01:21:26,920 but a lot of islands are really high. Yeah. Yeah, let's 1141 01:21:27,119 --> 01:21:31,159 uh, let's see how many. I'm looking at your your observations on that 1142 01:21:31,319 --> 01:21:38,560 that you got everywhere in the oh. Yeah, I was just fucking yeah, 1143 01:21:38,600 --> 01:21:44,359 I was like obsessively just like, you know, did you worth a 1144 01:21:44,439 --> 01:21:46,960 lot on the border right here? Yeah? Because that's where all the cool 1145 01:21:47,000 --> 01:21:51,239 stuff. Yeah, that's where all the cool stuff was. Man, there 1146 01:21:51,359 --> 01:21:56,359 was there was so much cool you know, because I like the dryer areas. 1147 01:21:56,399 --> 01:21:59,680 That's where all the melo cactus was and a lot of the other cool 1148 01:21:59,720 --> 01:22:02,479 color lumnar cocti and where it really dried out. You get those two endemic 1149 01:22:02,560 --> 01:22:06,399 iguanas down there. That's like Clara, You got consolia. You know that 1150 01:22:06,520 --> 01:22:11,640 prickly pair that's like a fucking oak tree basically like the size of an oak 1151 01:22:11,720 --> 01:22:16,239 tree. Um. Yeah, man, I would love to go back. 1152 01:22:16,279 --> 01:22:19,159 I didn't get enough time to see everything. There's a bunch more stuff I 1153 01:22:19,159 --> 01:22:24,640 want to see in the cloud forests. Um. The higher elevation ship was 1154 01:22:24,760 --> 01:22:28,000 nuts. It was so cool and it's it's it's so chill too. I 1155 01:22:28,079 --> 01:22:31,560 mean it's just like a you know, the dr is is nice. There's 1156 01:22:31,600 --> 01:22:34,760 a lot of habitat Clearance still going out, which is kind of a bummer, 1157 01:22:34,840 --> 01:22:39,479 but you know, well what are you gonna do? I guess you 1158 01:22:39,600 --> 01:22:43,600 know. I felt like it's one of my favorite places to work. Yeah, 1159 01:22:43,920 --> 01:22:48,920 yeah, easily. People were really friendly, it was safe. Yeah, 1160 01:22:49,079 --> 01:22:55,039 it is really good, and the plants are just amazing. Yeah, 1161 01:22:55,239 --> 01:22:58,159 and the bottom. A lot of cool a lot of cool botany people there 1162 01:22:58,239 --> 01:23:01,439 too, A lot of people doing important work. Um, so when you 1163 01:23:01,680 --> 01:23:04,000 so have you how much work have you done? You? So you went 1164 01:23:04,039 --> 01:23:08,920 to Ecuador? Where else have you gone? Um? Doing field work in 1165 01:23:08,960 --> 01:23:15,359 South America? So I went to Venezuela, Olivia, Peru. When did 1166 01:23:15,399 --> 01:23:21,239 you go to Venezuela? Uh? It's like two five? Yeah? Shit, 1167 01:23:21,359 --> 01:23:26,000 man, there's kind there's so much great stuff there. Yeah. I 1168 01:23:26,119 --> 01:23:30,199 was a real, a real stress jout trip. Really, how come? 1169 01:23:30,279 --> 01:23:34,000 I just feel like every time we went somewhere we were gonna get robbed. 1170 01:23:34,279 --> 01:23:40,359 Oh really, shit was kind of kind of spicy down there. I imagine 1171 01:23:40,399 --> 01:23:45,279 it's much worse now. Holy fuck. I won't even go. Yeah, 1172 01:23:45,520 --> 01:23:47,960 it would be too much. Yeah, it's all those tapui habitats. Man, 1173 01:23:48,039 --> 01:23:51,640 it's such a shame. Well those are hard areas to get to. 1174 01:23:53,079 --> 01:23:57,000 Yeah, I mean yeah, you need a hell but really complicated. Yeah. 1175 01:23:57,159 --> 01:24:00,640 There was that Alex Hanold documentary you see that one or some dude studying 1176 01:24:00,680 --> 01:24:05,239 frogs and it was it really it was kind of a weird mix of interest 1177 01:24:05,359 --> 01:24:08,920 that they've made this documentary on. It was like a I think was a 1178 01:24:08,960 --> 01:24:13,920 Netflix documentary. It was like climbers and then this old guy who studied frogs 1179 01:24:13,960 --> 01:24:15,479 who wanted to get to the top of this tapulli, and then these climbers 1180 01:24:15,520 --> 01:24:18,199 were climbing it. It was kind of like whatever, But I was just 1181 01:24:18,279 --> 01:24:20,640 looking at looking at it for the plant footage, you know, because the 1182 01:24:20,840 --> 01:24:27,840 tapullies are fucking you know, they're notorious among anyone who knows anything about you 1183 01:24:27,920 --> 01:24:30,000 know, cool plants or South American botany or anything. So I mean each 1184 01:24:30,039 --> 01:24:34,520 one is like it's own island. Tons of cool bromeliads, heliamporra that weird 1185 01:24:34,600 --> 01:24:41,359 as you know, carnivorous genus saraciniac. Tons of cool composites. I know, 1186 01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:46,079 Vicky funk Rip was doing a lot of work down there with composites back 1187 01:24:46,119 --> 01:24:50,760 in the day. Just fucking insane members of astrac Just they look nothing like 1188 01:24:51,840 --> 01:24:57,399 stuff you see in North America, you know, just brilliantly colored. Probably 1189 01:24:57,399 --> 01:25:00,159 a lot of muticioids, you know, muticioids of family, which is you 1190 01:25:00,239 --> 01:25:04,279 know, predominant in South America. Um I would I would love to get 1191 01:25:04,359 --> 01:25:08,359 up there, but yeah, it's you know, if you want to get 1192 01:25:08,359 --> 01:25:13,199 to it to cooee. Yeah, good Ecuador. There's two pooys in Ecuador, 1193 01:25:13,319 --> 01:25:15,479 or it's just the same type of No, no, there's some amazing 1194 01:25:16,159 --> 01:25:23,880 two pooey's. And until the late nineteen nineties the area was there were no 1195 01:25:24,039 --> 01:25:28,720 roads down there. Now it's opened up. Um, yeah, I can 1196 01:25:28,760 --> 01:25:31,800 tell you how to go and that. I used to take students there and 1197 01:25:31,880 --> 01:25:38,760 we would work with David Neil and the Institute of Botany at the University of 1198 01:25:38,760 --> 01:25:44,680 Amazonica and we set up a plot. So we go up there with higher 1199 01:25:44,720 --> 01:25:48,880 members in the community. The cook build the trails, help us climb the 1200 01:25:48,960 --> 01:25:54,840 trees, and we did inventory, and we go to a different Cooie each 1201 01:25:54,920 --> 01:25:58,159 year. And so you were climbing trees because what a lot of you were 1202 01:25:58,159 --> 01:26:01,319 studying a lot of epiphytes. Obviously, No, so I don't climb trees 1203 01:26:01,359 --> 01:26:08,239 anymore, but I hire people to climb trees, and I don't let my 1204 01:26:08,279 --> 01:26:11,399 students do it. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. Someone falls and breaks 1205 01:26:11,439 --> 01:26:15,439 there, that guy, I imagine it'd be a hefty personal injury lawsuit against 1206 01:26:15,479 --> 01:26:19,079 the school. But but we would go there and we would set up a 1207 01:26:19,119 --> 01:26:26,640 plot, inventory all the trees, photograph anything fertile, and make specimens. 1208 01:26:27,199 --> 01:26:29,880 We found all kinds of cool stuff, no shit. And so where would 1209 01:26:29,880 --> 01:26:32,199 you store all the information? I mean you get herbarium specimens and then would 1210 01:26:32,199 --> 01:26:36,960 you make checklists or anything or write a flora or anything like that or what. 1211 01:26:38,880 --> 01:26:44,800 So everything goes on Tropicos. All the specimens get integrated into the major 1212 01:26:44,920 --> 01:26:47,960 museums. Tell everybody listening what tropicos is, just in case no one's familiar. 1213 01:26:48,720 --> 01:26:57,119 Yeah, tropicos is essentially a specimen and a name database and it links 1214 01:26:57,159 --> 01:27:00,279 to all sorts of plant biodiversity information. And it's based out of the Missouri 1215 01:27:00,359 --> 01:27:08,079 Botanical Garden tropicos dot org tropical dot org. It's such a powerful tool. 1216 01:27:08,359 --> 01:27:12,359 They've you know what, Mobi's got a really good phylogeny website too, like 1217 01:27:12,439 --> 01:27:16,439 a good plant systematics and taxonomy website. That's right, it's based on the 1218 01:27:17,359 --> 01:27:20,840 and from Phylogeny group. Yeah, they're great. Yeah. Mobot's got a 1219 01:27:20,880 --> 01:27:26,359 lot of good resources. Long, so does New York Botanic Gardens. Theay 1220 01:27:26,439 --> 01:27:30,439 Barium. They've got some cool shit too, Yeah they do. So. 1221 01:27:30,039 --> 01:27:36,600 My goal too is to have all the images that I take, I want 1222 01:27:36,640 --> 01:27:43,239 them to be integrated and linked to the specimens. Yeah right, Yeah, 1223 01:27:43,359 --> 01:27:45,319 because I think that's useful. I think when you have a specimen and you 1224 01:27:45,399 --> 01:27:51,159 have good images, it really helps to promote the taxonomy and understanding of the 1225 01:27:51,840 --> 01:27:55,680 those plants. Oh yeah, absolutely. You look at like old er barium 1226 01:27:55,720 --> 01:27:59,720 specimens from the sixties and seventies, some of the botanist would actually attach photographs 1227 01:28:00,399 --> 01:28:03,439 to the the irbarium sheet, you know, if a photograph of habitat or 1228 01:28:03,439 --> 01:28:06,279 so much. I think it's a great idea. I just link I link 1229 01:28:06,319 --> 01:28:12,920 IAT observations, like I'll take an I naturalist observation of every everything I collect 1230 01:28:13,000 --> 01:28:18,159 and then put the you know, observation number on the irbarium tag so people 1231 01:28:18,199 --> 01:28:24,680 can look at pictures. Do you use one to five backro oh, yeah, 1232 01:28:24,920 --> 01:28:27,239 yeah, it was. I Mean it's an expensive as lens, but 1233 01:28:27,319 --> 01:28:30,600 it's it's the fucking it's been the most It's more important than the camera body. 1234 01:28:30,640 --> 01:28:34,880 It's been like the most important learning tool I've used, probably because I 1235 01:28:34,920 --> 01:28:39,560 mean I'll see things that with that lens that I don't see with my naked 1236 01:28:39,680 --> 01:28:42,000 eye when I'm out there looking at them, you know, and then later 1237 01:28:42,119 --> 01:28:44,199 on I'll notice it because it gets right up in there and I'm like, 1238 01:28:44,239 --> 01:28:46,439 oh yeah, but it's you know, you've only got I shoot with a 1239 01:28:46,520 --> 01:28:50,960 small aperture like F twenty or above, but then if you go beyond like 1240 01:28:51,039 --> 01:28:55,239 F thirty two, you start getting the fraction and you know, it starts 1241 01:28:55,279 --> 01:28:58,960 to fuck up again. So that's been the only thing, is I you 1242 01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:01,760 know, I've I see the guy's taking photographs of like close up insects. 1243 01:29:01,760 --> 01:29:04,960 There's some dude name I think his name is Dora Explore with Dora or something 1244 01:29:05,000 --> 01:29:10,520 on Instagram, but he takes these photos of insects that are just fucking mind 1245 01:29:10,560 --> 01:29:13,680 boggling. It's like he gets right. You can like see all the individual 1246 01:29:14,479 --> 01:29:16,840 platelets in the eye, like the different you know, like a fly eye 1247 01:29:16,920 --> 01:29:19,720 or something. It's it's just nuts. So I mean, you know, 1248 01:29:19,760 --> 01:29:23,199 I always wish I could get closer, but it's hard because then when you 1249 01:29:23,239 --> 01:29:26,359 shrink the aperture, you gotta get a light, and so I just use 1250 01:29:26,399 --> 01:29:28,520 a built in light because I don't want to deal with a you know, 1251 01:29:28,800 --> 01:29:31,279 a speed light and external flash or a fucking ring lighting. I've tried all 1252 01:29:31,319 --> 01:29:34,840 that Shit's a pain in the ass. So I get a nikon with you 1253 01:29:34,920 --> 01:29:38,960 know, a flash, like a built in flash. But then on some 1254 01:29:39,239 --> 01:29:42,119 models, the flash doesn't pop up high enough, so you get a shadow 1255 01:29:42,119 --> 01:29:45,439 because it's shett into the lens creates a shadow. And so but I'm yeah, 1256 01:29:45,439 --> 01:29:46,800 I gotta I got a D seventy five hundred Nikon. Then I just 1257 01:29:46,920 --> 01:29:49,520 use a one oh five Macro and I just go back and forth between that 1258 01:29:49,600 --> 01:29:51,840 and like the stock lens that comes with it, which is kind of ship 1259 01:29:51,960 --> 01:29:59,399 but whatever. Hey, that's convergence. You you you got a Nikon too? 1260 01:29:59,520 --> 01:30:01,079 Or what I do? I use the one on five? Yeah? 1261 01:30:01,159 --> 01:30:05,479 What do you use for a flash? So I buy all ring flashes? 1262 01:30:06,800 --> 01:30:10,960 Oh shit, that's and so that you just hook them up with the wire 1263 01:30:11,039 --> 01:30:14,640 and it's it's fine. Then huh, because here's the thing. Yeah, 1264 01:30:14,880 --> 01:30:19,359 they're cheap, they're indestructible, and I found the guy in Equador who can 1265 01:30:19,439 --> 01:30:24,359 fix them. I'm sick. What what's what's the brand you use? Because 1266 01:30:24,399 --> 01:30:27,479 maybe I'll do that. No, I used to stay. I use the 1267 01:30:27,560 --> 01:30:30,600 Nikon one oh five and I use whatever medium format camera. No, No, 1268 01:30:30,840 --> 01:30:34,560 the flash, the ring the ring flash, O the ring flash, 1269 01:30:34,760 --> 01:30:40,079 Yeah, twenty nine s SB twenty is that? What's the brand? Is 1270 01:30:40,119 --> 01:30:42,880 that Nikon? Or what? Oh it is Nikon? Yeah, that's the 1271 01:30:42,920 --> 01:30:44,920 thing. That's the way to do it. Buy them on eBay. But 1272 01:30:45,000 --> 01:30:46,239 then it's a pain in the aston times because you've got to get an adapt 1273 01:30:46,279 --> 01:30:49,840 you gotta make sure it fits. It can be uh, I guess that's 1274 01:30:49,880 --> 01:30:54,239 not an issue with the one you use or what. No, it works 1275 01:30:54,319 --> 01:30:57,840 really well and you want to get that twenty nine s. How does it 1276 01:30:57,960 --> 01:31:00,880 goes down to a quarter? Yeah, you can photograph white flowers. How 1277 01:31:00,920 --> 01:31:05,000 does it clamp onto the ring or to the lens. There's a little thing 1278 01:31:05,079 --> 01:31:10,560 that screws on the apex. Okay yeah, okay, so but then you're 1279 01:31:10,600 --> 01:31:14,720 basically stuck without You got to use that lens basically right, no, no, 1280 01:31:14,800 --> 01:31:17,439 but it's the same one of five and otherwise you get that shadow like 1281 01:31:17,800 --> 01:31:23,319 you know what I mean, right enough, and it lasts long enough. 1282 01:31:23,399 --> 01:31:27,439 I mean the like the battery last long enough or what. So I started 1283 01:31:27,479 --> 01:31:36,079 reusing I've started using these chargeable batteries called Panasonic. Yeah yeah, and I 1284 01:31:38,359 --> 01:31:43,640 just use like three sets of four. I never have an issue. Yeah, 1285 01:31:43,760 --> 01:31:45,119 that's man, That's that's the way to do it. Yeah. Because 1286 01:31:45,319 --> 01:31:46,880 I was looking at your photos too, it was like, oh, they're 1287 01:31:46,920 --> 01:31:51,479 great, good depth of field. Oftentimes a black background, which is easy 1288 01:31:51,560 --> 01:31:55,239 to get if you've got a small aperture and you're using a light, you're 1289 01:31:55,319 --> 01:32:00,800 using a flash. So yeah, totally, And it's you know, I 1290 01:32:00,920 --> 01:32:03,119 like creating a database of all my which is basically what I Naturalist is for 1291 01:32:03,239 --> 01:32:06,560 me. I got like a cloud photo account an I Naturalists, because you 1292 01:32:06,600 --> 01:32:11,560 know, you never know who's gonna find those photos helpful. There have been 1293 01:32:11,600 --> 01:32:15,760 so many times I've been looking looking up, you know, traits of a 1294 01:32:15,840 --> 01:32:19,760 flower, flower morphology of you know, whatever genus, whatever family, and 1295 01:32:19,880 --> 01:32:24,199 there's no good photographs. They're all blurry, or they're half asked, or 1296 01:32:24,239 --> 01:32:29,880 they're taking out of focus because you know they were taken for they weren't taken 1297 01:32:29,960 --> 01:32:34,359 for like taxonomic or scientific purposes. So you know, it's it's super important 1298 01:32:34,359 --> 01:32:39,279 to me to get those get those photos, you know, really clear photos 1299 01:32:39,319 --> 01:32:43,840 of floral morphology. Here's the thing, this is the best time to be 1300 01:32:43,920 --> 01:32:47,039 a botanus. Why do you say that, Because we've got the cameras, 1301 01:32:48,039 --> 01:32:56,640 we have the digital ability to share things, and so many things are represented 1302 01:32:56,680 --> 01:33:00,560 by good images. Right, I'd certainly say it's the one of the most 1303 01:33:00,600 --> 01:33:05,600 important times to be a bonus because there's the habitat destruction is just it's you 1304 01:33:05,680 --> 01:33:10,680 know, it's it's really reaching the precipice here. There's just there's so much, 1305 01:33:11,399 --> 01:33:15,760 you know, every time you think that that this fucking death cult won't 1306 01:33:15,840 --> 01:33:18,880 take more, it always takes more, you know, and leaves so little 1307 01:33:18,960 --> 01:33:23,600 for everything else. And there's just you know, it's an extinction crisis. 1308 01:33:23,720 --> 01:33:27,119 It's it's uh, I don't know, man, it's disheartening. I see 1309 01:33:27,159 --> 01:33:29,560 that, and so I see that everywhere I go. I just see more 1310 01:33:30,439 --> 01:33:33,800 land being cleared for agriculture, for for tracked housing, for strip malls, 1311 01:33:33,960 --> 01:33:40,000 for whatever, you know, for burning whatever. So um, yeah, 1312 01:33:40,039 --> 01:33:45,960 I agree. And that's why I Naturalists is so powerful. Yeah, yeah, 1313 01:33:45,119 --> 01:33:50,319 totally look at your observations. They're amazing and it gets it's it's really 1314 01:33:50,359 --> 01:33:57,920 important to Tinctoria. Oh yeah, that was a I just met that one. 1315 01:33:58,000 --> 01:34:00,520 That was a what a fucking cool cool plant. Yeah, Eric Kiley's 1316 01:34:00,560 --> 01:34:03,680 man. But it's good for just getting people stoked on this too. You 1317 01:34:03,720 --> 01:34:08,000 know, it gets instead of you know, doing shit like smoking pot and 1318 01:34:08,039 --> 01:34:12,039 playing video games and not knocking it for anyone listening or fucking doing whatever. 1319 01:34:12,159 --> 01:34:15,279 You know, remember that Pokemon ship people were doing Awhile when they were like 1320 01:34:15,359 --> 01:34:18,479 walking in the walls, it was just like eight years ago or something. 1321 01:34:18,960 --> 01:34:23,159 You know, It's like, Okay, now you can actually go out and 1322 01:34:23,359 --> 01:34:26,520 study the flora around you, even if it's going to a fucking vacant lot 1323 01:34:26,600 --> 01:34:30,560 and looking at what invasive species are popping up there, looking at the kind 1324 01:34:30,600 --> 01:34:34,079 of makeshift ecology that comes up in an urban waste land or you know wherever, 1325 01:34:34,319 --> 01:34:38,039 or a fucking you know, railroad right of way or a power line 1326 01:34:38,039 --> 01:34:40,760 easement. It's that, or it could be you know, now there's a 1327 01:34:40,840 --> 01:34:43,960 reason to go outside and then you know, go fuck around looking, you 1328 01:34:44,039 --> 01:34:46,600 know, waltz through the bushes, climb up a mountain, see what's growing 1329 01:34:46,640 --> 01:34:48,880 out there, learn more about the world around you, you know. And 1330 01:34:48,960 --> 01:34:53,520 I guess it's I guess that's one of the good things is my naturalists gets 1331 01:34:53,560 --> 01:34:56,720 that drive out there. It gets people doing that, you know, instead 1332 01:34:56,720 --> 01:35:00,359 of just instead of just you know, instead of just being so disc connected. 1333 01:35:00,399 --> 01:35:03,720 That's what's so that's I think the disconnection is what goes hand in hand 1334 01:35:03,760 --> 01:35:08,399 with the habitat destruction and the extinction, and it's all part of the same 1335 01:35:08,520 --> 01:35:11,000 death cult. And it really is to me it's a death cult. It's 1336 01:35:11,039 --> 01:35:16,119 this this this really lowest common denominator, unenlightened way of looking at the world. 1337 01:35:16,199 --> 01:35:23,479 It's fundamentally disconnected from all these this library, this fucking wonderful you know, 1338 01:35:23,880 --> 01:35:28,760 art museum of living organisms, of masterpieces that have evolved or millions of 1339 01:35:28,840 --> 01:35:32,359 years to you know, form this this interconnected network. And so many people 1340 01:35:32,399 --> 01:35:35,840 are just oblivious to it. It's so sad. Man. I you know, 1341 01:35:35,920 --> 01:35:39,439 I'm not even throwing shade their way. I just feel bad for him. 1342 01:35:39,439 --> 01:35:41,039 It's like, God, damn it. You know, it's one thing 1343 01:35:41,119 --> 01:35:44,600 if you don't grow up with access to it, and you know you're from 1344 01:35:44,640 --> 01:35:47,239 an area where it's just you can't help it. But then there's it's another 1345 01:35:47,319 --> 01:35:49,520 thing if if you do grow up with access to it, but you just 1346 01:35:49,680 --> 01:35:54,000 choose to ignore it. You've never looked twice, you know. You you 1347 01:35:54,159 --> 01:35:56,600 like being in the car, you like being in your home, you like 1348 01:35:56,840 --> 01:36:00,319 just it's you know, to me, that's where I'm like, holy shit. 1349 01:36:00,960 --> 01:36:02,199 You know, how do you how do you turn people onto this stuff? 1350 01:36:02,199 --> 01:36:04,960 I guess uh, I think you can definitely do it, But it's 1351 01:36:05,000 --> 01:36:09,359 just, you know, it's something to think about, you know, here's 1352 01:36:09,359 --> 01:36:18,800 what's said. The sad fact most kids can recognize corporate logos, I know, 1353 01:36:19,359 --> 01:36:21,640 and I wasn't that nuts. They got no idea. I live in 1354 01:36:21,680 --> 01:36:27,880 a place where that is like that is a that's basically a summary of what's 1355 01:36:27,920 --> 01:36:30,880 going on here. You know, there's just where I live. So I 1356 01:36:30,960 --> 01:36:32,920 live on the border of the Mexican border of South Texas. I've been there 1357 01:36:33,079 --> 01:36:36,520 probably a year or two, and it's got some of the most remarkable floora 1358 01:36:36,600 --> 01:36:41,279 in the world, just incredible. I took a friend out, a friend 1359 01:36:41,319 --> 01:36:45,199 of mine and his his his buddy who's a veteran, took them out. 1360 01:36:45,239 --> 01:36:47,960 It was like ninety fucking degrees here already, you know, it's so hot 1361 01:36:48,079 --> 01:36:50,359 on here. Took him out. We were looking at wild peyote. We 1362 01:36:50,439 --> 01:36:55,399 were looking at all these other cool cactus species, Delo cactus. You know, 1363 01:36:55,479 --> 01:36:59,960 this whole plant community that grows in such an extreme environment. I mean, 1364 01:37:00,000 --> 01:37:03,800 and it's so fucking hot. Everything's growing in the shade of vichelly ridge 1365 01:37:03,840 --> 01:37:06,600 of dual of the black rushi Acacia, and a couple other legumes, which 1366 01:37:06,600 --> 01:37:14,000 are you know, these incredibly tough, basically really small trees that that enriched 1367 01:37:14,079 --> 01:37:17,159 the soil with nitrogen, albeit gradually, and then you know, provide shade 1368 01:37:17,159 --> 01:37:23,359 cover and can just take being blasted with that hot sun. And I was 1369 01:37:23,439 --> 01:37:26,199 just thinking, I'm like, I've never seen anyone else out here. I've 1370 01:37:26,239 --> 01:37:29,840 never seen anyone. They're building the border wall nearby. They're going to demolish 1371 01:37:29,880 --> 01:37:32,439 a whole bunch of this shit, despite the fact there's like two federally listed 1372 01:37:32,479 --> 01:37:36,439 endangered species there. You know, I just how many people live in this 1373 01:37:36,600 --> 01:37:41,000 area. It's it's not a small area, it's it's like a pretty densely 1374 01:37:41,079 --> 01:37:44,720 populated area. But it's just so many people just have no clue. They 1375 01:37:44,840 --> 01:37:47,680 just they don't They they'll spend their whole lives here without any idea what any 1376 01:37:47,720 --> 01:37:51,960 of this stuff is. You know, how these things form this living skin 1377 01:37:53,039 --> 01:37:56,439 of the earth. And it just kind of blows. It just blows my 1378 01:37:56,520 --> 01:37:59,319 mind, man, because I mean I came from it, lived in California 1379 01:37:59,399 --> 01:38:02,640 twenty years, which you know, say whatever you want, I loved it, 1380 01:38:02,760 --> 01:38:05,479 but it was it's certainly California is so fucked up now. There's just 1381 01:38:05,600 --> 01:38:10,239 no middle class. There's you know, it's so expensive. Whatever it's there's 1382 01:38:10,239 --> 01:38:14,079 a whole bunch of shit you could say, but um, but at least 1383 01:38:14,079 --> 01:38:18,640 out there there was a pretty active, you know, community of people from 1384 01:38:18,680 --> 01:38:24,800 all different backgrounds who appreciate it being outside and appreciated plants, and you know, 1385 01:38:24,840 --> 01:38:29,279 the native plant community in California is probably the strongest, you know, 1386 01:38:29,680 --> 01:38:32,039 more so than there than it is anywhere else in the country. And just 1387 01:38:32,159 --> 01:38:35,239 coming hint to an area where no one appreciates it, and I realize that 1388 01:38:35,319 --> 01:38:38,520 this is kind of it's good for me. This is where I need to 1389 01:38:38,600 --> 01:38:41,520 be, Like, this is where I don't I don't need to be in 1390 01:38:41,600 --> 01:38:45,279 a bubble where everyone is just on the same page, because it gives you 1391 01:38:45,359 --> 01:38:48,159 this false perception that everything's okay and it's not. You come to places where 1392 01:38:48,159 --> 01:38:53,359 you see how disconnected people are and how how deep that this connection runs. 1393 01:38:53,439 --> 01:38:54,720 You know, like, shit, we got a lot of work to do, 1394 01:38:54,880 --> 01:38:57,720 Like how do we get people into this stuff. How do we cultivate 1395 01:38:57,760 --> 01:39:01,159 a fucking respect and reverence for all these things? Because god damn, they're 1396 01:39:01,159 --> 01:39:05,680 so they're so cool. I mean, there's there's so many I think NAIs 1397 01:39:06,600 --> 01:39:12,399 does that. I think sex people it's a biodiversity definitely. In my old 1398 01:39:12,439 --> 01:39:18,399 job, I got two hundred people engaged in Ninaturalists every year. Kids. 1399 01:39:18,640 --> 01:39:23,359 Yeah, that's great kids. And they were like geting up, getting up 1400 01:39:23,359 --> 01:39:27,399 at five six in the morning, going out documenting floren fauna. Yeah, 1401 01:39:28,239 --> 01:39:31,359 that was amazing. That's great. Man. One of the students got he 1402 01:39:31,600 --> 01:39:35,760 documented eight hundred species in about two and a half months. What was he 1403 01:39:35,880 --> 01:39:41,119 doing? Plants? Birds, I mean everything? Birds? What? Everything? 1404 01:39:41,439 --> 01:39:44,880 Yeah, it's so great because it was it was the first time that 1405 01:39:45,039 --> 01:39:51,560 some of those students left their computers, went outside started documenting stuff. It's 1406 01:39:51,600 --> 01:39:55,800 such a great it's such a great learning tool too, because it's got a 1407 01:39:55,840 --> 01:40:00,119 link to the Wikipedia page distribution map, what else it's related to. It's 1408 01:40:00,159 --> 01:40:04,079 got taxonomy pages on there. You know. Sometimes well good amount of the 1409 01:40:04,119 --> 01:40:09,680 time identifications can be wrong or iffy, but whatever, the information is still 1410 01:40:09,720 --> 01:40:15,119 there. It's it's a really great resource, especially for getting people stoked on 1411 01:40:15,199 --> 01:40:18,800 plants and getting them or just stoked on on fucking nature, which nature is 1412 01:40:18,840 --> 01:40:21,199 really just the real world. It's I don't even don't even really like that 1413 01:40:21,279 --> 01:40:26,560 word in nature. It's just the actual living world. You know. What 1414 01:40:26,760 --> 01:40:31,479 we've made is something distinct and disparate from it, you know, and so 1415 01:40:32,000 --> 01:40:35,800 um but anyway, well, let's uh, I guess going back to this 1416 01:40:35,920 --> 01:40:39,520 family, is there? I mean, what do you there any things, 1417 01:40:39,640 --> 01:40:43,520 any certain genera or cool stories you'd like to tell, like you know, 1418 01:40:43,640 --> 01:40:46,880 things that really get you stoked when you think about them, that kind of 1419 01:40:46,920 --> 01:40:50,600 blow your mind about this family, like really cool pollination syndromes, really cool 1420 01:40:50,640 --> 01:40:59,680 ecologies, really cool habitats. Well, let me think about that. One 1421 01:40:59,800 --> 01:41:06,640 us things that's really neat in this crew is there is a convergence of flowers 1422 01:41:06,680 --> 01:41:11,760 that are radially symmetrical. It's pretty weird. Yeah, I've never heard. 1423 01:41:12,479 --> 01:41:16,760 And they're highly dried. Like normally you think of radial symmetries or like a 1424 01:41:16,840 --> 01:41:23,039 buttercup something that's pleasium warphic, right, but in against nears it's it's always 1425 01:41:23,079 --> 01:41:27,680 appomorphic. I think that's cool. What and what are the what what are 1426 01:41:27,680 --> 01:41:30,399 the genera that do that? And what what pollinates them? Like? What 1427 01:41:30,680 --> 01:41:32,760 what can you? Why do you surmind? Right now? Let me think 1428 01:41:33,800 --> 01:41:40,199 they're probably buzz pollinated. No shit, some sort of fly. So they've 1429 01:41:40,239 --> 01:41:45,399 got from Haiti. They have radial symmetry, do they have anthropores or what's 1430 01:41:45,520 --> 01:41:48,840 happening? Yeah? No shit? What's good? Did you look at the 1431 01:41:49,079 --> 01:41:55,399 Instagram stuff that I just posted from two days ago. Bolognia. Look at 1432 01:41:55,439 --> 01:41:59,880 Bolognia spinosa. Let's see it look like it's like it's mimicking a solina. 1433 01:42:00,439 --> 01:42:03,479 This would be a good This would be a good opportunity for you to describe 1434 01:42:03,880 --> 01:42:10,840 or to tell everyone you're you're an Instagram Okay, so the Instagram stuff started 1435 01:42:11,159 --> 01:42:15,159 this year or did last year? J tell everyone your Instagram name. It's 1436 01:42:15,199 --> 01:42:19,840 Fania, right, it's which is a genus of E p h I n 1437 01:42:20,199 --> 01:42:26,319 a e A Yeah, it's p h I n A ea. I. 1438 01:42:26,439 --> 01:42:30,119 Also, I grabbed the name the botanizer, so I think I want to 1439 01:42:30,159 --> 01:42:32,960 switch it. I just don't know how to do that. Wait, and 1440 01:42:33,039 --> 01:42:36,439 what was the genius you were just talking about? Was that Bologna? Oh, 1441 01:42:36,520 --> 01:42:41,520 Bologna two or three days ago. You can see the picture. Oh 1442 01:42:41,600 --> 01:42:44,239 my god. Yeah, that's a Yeah, it's a radially symmetrical flower. 1443 01:42:44,279 --> 01:42:45,720 That's so weird. I didn't think there were I didn't. I didn't think 1444 01:42:45,760 --> 01:42:48,960 there were any in this family. No, No, there's quite a few. 1445 01:42:49,880 --> 01:42:54,720 And and the thing about them, every time we find a new one, 1446 01:42:56,279 --> 01:43:00,359 it's almost like it evolved independently. M hmm, like there's this one 1447 01:43:01,000 --> 01:43:08,760 pea in Cuba. It's not related to the fine. Used to be a 1448 01:43:08,880 --> 01:43:14,000 group that included a malophillon. Now they're separate. And we just described a 1449 01:43:14,039 --> 01:43:21,039 new species from Haiti radiata A radiata and it's radially symmetrical. Yeah, that's 1450 01:43:21,159 --> 01:43:25,800 yeah, that's weird. What what what's going on with the pollination of that? 1451 01:43:27,399 --> 01:43:31,279 I don't know how many? How many many? The most Canarians have 1452 01:43:31,359 --> 01:43:39,000 four stamens, like and then sometimes a stamin it's like astigial one. Oh 1453 01:43:39,079 --> 01:43:43,880 wow, Yeah, that's crazy. Does the staminode serve any any function in 1454 01:43:44,399 --> 01:43:47,520 any of them? I don't think so. No, just kind of left 1455 01:43:47,600 --> 01:43:49,520 over. Okay, So anyway, all right, but going back to this 1456 01:43:49,640 --> 01:43:56,479 Bellonia um. So I'm looking at this this photo you posted. It looks 1457 01:43:56,479 --> 01:44:00,800 like it's just a single style poking out and then you got are those bracts, 1458 01:44:00,840 --> 01:44:08,840 those yellow bracts, those petals are what? Yeah, let's talk about 1459 01:44:08,880 --> 01:44:13,359 this flower morphology because this things fucking weird. Belonia spinosa. Yeah. So 1460 01:44:13,479 --> 01:44:16,920 one of the things that's unique about it how spines. M hmmm, that's 1461 01:44:16,960 --> 01:44:19,760 weird. And they grow in dry areas. I call them sort of this 1462 01:44:19,880 --> 01:44:28,880 clambering shrub just meters and meters just clambering all over the place, little anty 1463 01:44:28,920 --> 01:44:35,159 baty white flowers, small leaves, and they have these spines or large thorns 1464 01:44:35,199 --> 01:44:40,199 and the axles. Totally weird. Oh, I see what's go Wait? 1465 01:44:40,359 --> 01:44:44,399 Is this a protandrous species, this bellonia? Or is it? I'm assuming 1466 01:44:44,399 --> 01:44:47,439 it's protandrous, but we don't know much. Those yellow bracs that what the 1467 01:44:47,560 --> 01:44:51,760 fuck? Those yellow bracts are the stamens? No shit, totally cool. 1468 01:44:51,920 --> 01:44:56,199 That's so weird. And they open up so it looks like they also look 1469 01:44:56,239 --> 01:45:00,439 like closed sepals and the inside of the flower. And then they open up 1470 01:45:01,840 --> 01:45:06,600 and then it looks does it have five stamens or is one a staminode? 1471 01:45:06,640 --> 01:45:11,119 I can't tell. It looks like one might be kind of looks like one 1472 01:45:11,199 --> 01:45:13,239 might be kind of a dud. I love I love shit like this. 1473 01:45:13,399 --> 01:45:16,960 I love looking at the love. Yeah. I love looking at flowers and 1474 01:45:17,039 --> 01:45:19,920 trying to flower morphology and trying to figure out, you know, what the 1475 01:45:20,000 --> 01:45:28,359 fuck is. Mellow stones are little good that someone should study. God damn, 1476 01:45:28,760 --> 01:45:30,640 the spines on those wait, how long are the spines on those? 1477 01:45:30,680 --> 01:45:34,119 It's like two or three inches or would No, I don't think I'm that 1478 01:45:34,199 --> 01:45:40,279 long. It's warm. Third, they're longer than the leaves. No, 1479 01:45:40,479 --> 01:45:48,279 they're longer than the leaves though that when they are Christ yeah, Jesus Christ. 1480 01:45:48,279 --> 01:45:50,920 Though it's still weird. Oh yeah, let's got Oh yeah there you 1481 01:45:50,920 --> 01:45:54,640 can see the pores. You can see the anther pores. Yeah. How 1482 01:45:54,680 --> 01:45:59,439 many this is not a common trait in gisnari ac poresidal anthers. No, 1483 01:45:59,560 --> 01:46:02,560 it's not. How many other genera that you can think of having? Is 1484 01:46:02,560 --> 01:46:05,760 it just this one? Okay? So in the in the New World, 1485 01:46:06,439 --> 01:46:20,520 Alonia amlaphilona pella, which it's not the same as Fania nifia, And then 1486 01:46:21,319 --> 01:46:28,039 I think nappianist m hm, and I think that's it. So not not 1487 01:46:28,279 --> 01:46:31,840 that many, God any one other. There's a Gascenaria that does it in 1488 01:46:31,960 --> 01:46:36,840 Haiti. It's it's a new species. It's coming out next month. Oh 1489 01:46:36,960 --> 01:46:44,840 that's being described. What's the genus Gasnaria. Yeah, it's from Maka. 1490 01:46:45,399 --> 01:46:48,840 Oh well Gasnaria Philippies rediscovering that dr after forty nine years, So tell us 1491 01:46:48,880 --> 01:46:51,800 about this. This was I remember seeing your video on this too. This 1492 01:46:51,960 --> 01:46:59,680 was a plant that was thought to be extinct or was it in Christie I 1493 01:46:59,760 --> 01:47:03,239 was the to be extinct and it's it's in cultivation. I just saw it 1494 01:47:03,319 --> 01:47:10,920 this morning on eBay. I was looking at some stuff. But that one 1495 01:47:11,720 --> 01:47:16,039 Christi I that we saw in the dr it was originally described from Haiti, 1496 01:47:16,119 --> 01:47:24,000 from Footsie and it was collected by last It was collected by Larry Scope in 1497 01:47:24,159 --> 01:47:29,960 nineteen sixty nine or nineteen seventy, and that was it. The stuff that's 1498 01:47:30,079 --> 01:47:35,159 in cultivation was brought back from that expedition christ Yeah. And then there's one 1499 01:47:35,159 --> 01:47:42,720 other collection by Tom's and and that's the population we found a few weeks ago. 1500 01:47:44,359 --> 01:47:45,960 And it's right on the border. God, there's so much cool shit 1501 01:47:46,039 --> 01:47:50,840 in the dr And what's up the genus how do you pronounce it? Pilum 1502 01:47:51,279 --> 01:47:59,960 ritdophilum? And how many species are in that genus? In on Hispaniola? 1503 01:48:00,840 --> 01:48:05,920 Okay, so there are about twenty five to thirty species and these are like 1504 01:48:06,079 --> 01:48:12,840 large shrubs to small trees or what. Most of them are large shrubs and 1505 01:48:13,119 --> 01:48:19,039 on we think now on Hispaniola, well we saw five species in one day. 1506 01:48:20,560 --> 01:48:27,600 Yeah, we drove three k Yeah they're nuts. So but there's there's 1507 01:48:27,640 --> 01:48:31,880 some like ritted to film BERTONI in them. It's yendemic to the dr and 1508 01:48:32,000 --> 01:48:40,159 it's everywhere in the quarter and sent it all umbly. It's got to be 1509 01:48:40,199 --> 01:48:45,000 like ten species, So Rotto finalum how many? How does the thieves are? 1510 01:48:45,039 --> 01:48:51,800 Tiny anies? Right, tiny seeds inferior ovaries, alternate leaves and usually 1511 01:48:51,920 --> 01:48:57,960 big sort of companulate bell shaped flowers. Yeah that look like a little mouth. 1512 01:48:58,119 --> 01:49:00,560 Yeah, so what disposes the seeds? They just kind of drop out 1513 01:49:00,640 --> 01:49:03,640 or do the get like any kind of violent de histance thing going on or 1514 01:49:03,680 --> 01:49:09,359 what? No, I think it's just winds, no ship. And they're 1515 01:49:09,359 --> 01:49:12,920 tiny, Yeah, yeah, they are, They're they're super tiny. I 1516 01:49:13,000 --> 01:49:15,399 collect I collected some last time I was there and kind of look, how 1517 01:49:15,479 --> 01:49:20,800 Harry this thing is Jesus Christ. It's it's it's so they're super fuzzy, 1518 01:49:21,880 --> 01:49:27,760 yeah, like tom and toast. Yeah, but these they're like these little 1519 01:49:27,920 --> 01:49:34,079 velvety hair is kind of yeah, all right, the leaves the basis occurring 1520 01:49:34,920 --> 01:49:39,560 and then it's a riculut like look in your lope. So and then sometimes 1521 01:49:39,600 --> 01:49:44,439 they have these like pseudostipules, so clasping, kind of clasping. But but 1522 01:49:44,640 --> 01:49:46,960 sometimes they have it, and sometimes they don't. It's like every time you 1523 01:49:47,079 --> 01:49:50,800 feel like, are you figure out a character? Yeah, it doesn't work. 1524 01:49:51,439 --> 01:49:57,039 Yeah, yeah, totally. It's a really complicated group. And then 1525 01:49:57,079 --> 01:50:00,279 you've got this modeling on the inside of the Corolla tool like this red speckling. 1526 01:50:01,680 --> 01:50:04,479 Yeah, I have some pictures of this. How would you describe the 1527 01:50:04,560 --> 01:50:06,680 stigma? A lot of the A lot of the stigma I've noticed in this 1528 01:50:06,920 --> 01:50:12,640 these This family almost looks it's got that kind of like lobeliad look to it, 1529 01:50:12,800 --> 01:50:16,159 like this big oval disc. So I would say it's club shaped. 1530 01:50:16,920 --> 01:50:21,640 And then in some groups it's bifurcating. It's juicy. It's juicy, is 1531 01:50:21,720 --> 01:50:28,159 what it is. Oh shit, yeah, okay, so wait, what 1532 01:50:28,359 --> 01:50:32,479 were we talking about. We're talking about Bolonia and uh por sydal anthers and 1533 01:50:32,840 --> 01:50:41,720 uh oh, that's right anthers. Most anthers are longitudinally dehiscent, except for 1534 01:50:41,800 --> 01:50:45,560 Dramonia. There you have pores. So most anthers in gas a longitude, 1535 01:50:45,600 --> 01:50:53,520 so they just split split open down the down the long side of the of 1536 01:50:53,640 --> 01:50:58,399 the anther, which is pretty typical for most angiosperms. So yeah, but 1537 01:50:58,560 --> 01:51:03,600 the neatest one is Dramonia. And what's up with Ramonia? So the anthers 1538 01:51:03,640 --> 01:51:09,920 are poorestal, but they're not buzz pollinating. So what's what's happening with those 1539 01:51:10,119 --> 01:51:15,239 is it's like salt and pepper shakers, and you get U glossing bee that 1540 01:51:15,359 --> 01:51:19,680 goes into the flower and then often there are these really cool hairs with sticky, 1541 01:51:19,760 --> 01:51:25,640 gooey substance that gets caught on the body of the bee, and then 1542 01:51:25,640 --> 01:51:30,840 the pollen grains they get dumped out of the poorestle anthers and they get stuck 1543 01:51:30,920 --> 01:51:33,520 to the body of the U glossing bee. So tell everyone about U glassing 1544 01:51:33,600 --> 01:51:36,399 bees because they do a lot of orchid pollination, right, And what are 1545 01:51:36,439 --> 01:51:41,920 they what are they known for? What are they collecting? Primarily so most 1546 01:51:42,520 --> 01:51:46,000 kind of thing, most bees, I think it was Kylaway Dotson did a 1547 01:51:46,039 --> 01:51:55,880 lot of work on how certain bees male bees generate or are they visit flowers 1548 01:51:56,840 --> 01:52:02,439 to to get a neck that allows them to attractive female bees? Yeah, 1549 01:52:02,479 --> 01:52:06,800 they get these weird fragrance compounds. So it's like they're they're kind of like 1550 01:52:08,159 --> 01:52:12,600 like you know, gathering cologne or some sort of weird you know, they're 1551 01:52:12,640 --> 01:52:15,319 trying to perfume their ass so that they can get the you know, do 1552 01:52:15,399 --> 01:52:19,119 a courtship, Yeah, courtship ritual. So is that what they're going for 1553 01:52:19,319 --> 01:52:23,600 with this? Uh would you say dramonia? Well, no, I don't 1554 01:52:23,600 --> 01:52:28,600 think it's that way. It's a little different. I think the visiting the 1555 01:52:28,640 --> 01:52:34,039 flowers and they're just collecting nectar food and then the and the pollen grains get 1556 01:52:34,079 --> 01:52:38,920 caught on their bodies and that secondary. But what is dramonia? What are 1557 01:52:38,920 --> 01:52:43,039 the what are the flowers secreting? It's just the like a sugary nectar basically 1558 01:52:43,199 --> 01:52:47,159 or what pretty much that's it. Wow. Yeah, what's so neat about 1559 01:52:47,199 --> 01:52:54,680 it is that Tremonia was the one genus that made sense until I started working 1560 01:52:54,800 --> 01:53:00,159 with the groups, because everything that didn't make sense was nesting in primonia. 1561 01:53:00,560 --> 01:53:06,119 What do you mean it made sense? So like dramonio was a pollination syndrome, 1562 01:53:08,119 --> 01:53:13,000 right and then and then the things that were upside down made sense. 1563 01:53:13,159 --> 01:53:16,319 But the things that Warren upside down started nesting in primonia. Oh, you 1564 01:53:16,359 --> 01:53:19,720 mean made sense in turn up terms of being monophyletic, in terms of all 1565 01:53:19,840 --> 01:53:26,279 being you know, a result of shared ancestry from a single event. Yeah, 1566 01:53:26,319 --> 01:53:31,439 So what happened was Dramonia was a genus that made sense and everything else 1567 01:53:31,520 --> 01:53:36,039 is a mess. When we figured out everything else, Dramonia became the big 1568 01:53:36,119 --> 01:53:40,840 mess. It became the trash bag genus. Oh shit. So it turned 1569 01:53:40,880 --> 01:53:45,359 out a lot of stuff actually belonged in Dramonia, even though it didn't classically 1570 01:53:45,439 --> 01:53:48,279 look like Dramonia. That's right. Things that used to be let me see 1571 01:53:48,319 --> 01:53:55,680 here, alliplectus Dramonia now things that used to be No, so you had 1572 01:53:55,720 --> 01:54:00,600 to start lumping. You became a lumper. Well, I guess kind Yeah, 1573 01:54:00,680 --> 01:54:05,039 it just became an amazing group. Yeah, study it's so weird what's 1574 01:54:05,079 --> 01:54:09,000 happened with this I mean, that's what I'm getting from this family is it's 1575 01:54:09,039 --> 01:54:13,039 just what's happened evolutionarily with the guest Nerea. It's just kind of boggles the 1576 01:54:13,159 --> 01:54:16,600 mind. And it's really a puzzle that we'd kind of be fucked to figure 1577 01:54:16,640 --> 01:54:23,079 out if we didn't have DNA sequencing. Like many things. Yeah, it 1578 01:54:23,239 --> 01:54:28,319 all go again once again. Carrie mullis taking acid, taking LSD on Highway 1579 01:54:28,399 --> 01:54:31,119 one. So the lesson here is everyone should do acid once in their lives. 1580 01:54:31,479 --> 01:54:34,279 Okay, you don't have to agree with me, because I know you 1581 01:54:34,399 --> 01:54:39,159 got a record uphold. I of course they'll have no such reputation. I've 1582 01:54:39,159 --> 01:54:43,560 already lost it. So I can say that everyone should do acid once in 1583 01:54:43,640 --> 01:54:45,600 their life, even if it's a bad trip. All right, that could 1584 01:54:45,640 --> 01:54:51,000 be voy just get really excited about plants, or just get really excited about 1585 01:54:51,079 --> 01:54:57,159 plants and just start digesting. You know, the plant systematics textbook learning about 1586 01:54:57,640 --> 01:55:02,479 you know, DNA sequencing, fy Jenny's you know, the interconnected web of 1587 01:55:02,560 --> 01:55:05,600 life? You know? And uh, and basically, what's another? What 1588 01:55:05,800 --> 01:55:09,399 is it great? I guess in wrapping this up, what would be a 1589 01:55:09,520 --> 01:55:14,359 great for someone who's not in school for this would be a great text to 1590 01:55:14,520 --> 01:55:20,600 read to understand natural selection? To understand evolution, plant evolution specifically, how 1591 01:55:20,760 --> 01:55:27,439 things evolve, how really you know, uncanny things evolve, like plants mimicking 1592 01:55:27,680 --> 01:55:31,119 rocks or plants, uh, developing a certain relationship with the pont it. 1593 01:55:31,239 --> 01:55:33,680 You know, things that people who don't understand evolution will look at and be 1594 01:55:33,760 --> 01:55:36,600 like, oh wow, how does it know? How does the plant know 1595 01:55:36,800 --> 01:55:40,840 what a rock looks like? Or how does the plant know you know, 1596 01:55:41,000 --> 01:55:43,800 what wants to pont it? What would be a good book you could recommend 1597 01:55:43,880 --> 01:55:48,840 for for someone getting into this stuff? I would recommend your podcast. But 1598 01:55:49,039 --> 01:55:51,199 but now come on, you gotta but there's gotta be some good like the 1599 01:55:51,279 --> 01:55:56,039 Carl Zimmer Revolution textbooks kind of nice. All of these can be pirated on 1600 01:55:56,159 --> 01:55:59,720 live Jet. If someone's you know, but doesn't have this such a good 1601 01:55:59,760 --> 01:56:03,079 question, cash flow. You know what. Ravens Biology of Plants actually has 1602 01:56:03,159 --> 01:56:09,119 some really good sections on plant evolution too well. I like Raven's book. 1603 01:56:09,800 --> 01:56:13,279 But if you ask me which two books, if I brought two books with 1604 01:56:13,399 --> 01:56:17,560 me, I'd bring Walter Judd's book Plant Systematics, and I'd bring Michael Simpson's 1605 01:56:17,640 --> 01:56:21,680 book Plant Systematics, I think both those books are great. Yeah, both 1606 01:56:23,640 --> 01:56:28,199 both are pretty yeah man, I mean since it's based in California, Judd 1607 01:56:28,319 --> 01:56:30,880 was based in Florida, you retired. Yeah, but I took that class 1608 01:56:30,920 --> 01:56:34,800 I took. I took Walter Judd's Plant Systematics cours too well known and esteemed 1609 01:56:34,880 --> 01:56:39,560 botanists. Yeah, And I mean, you're not gonna go wrong with you 1610 01:56:39,680 --> 01:56:42,680 know, on this subject, with any anything. You know, two reputable 1611 01:56:42,720 --> 01:56:45,520 sources writing on this subject, it's so fucking fast to any man. I 1612 01:56:46,000 --> 01:56:48,920 like Simpson's book because it covers everything. It comes covers, you know, 1613 01:56:49,039 --> 01:56:56,319 covering uh, it covers how how the DNA uh understanding DNA works. It 1614 01:56:56,399 --> 01:56:59,439 covers you know, collecting or varying specimens. It's got like a dictionary for 1615 01:56:59,520 --> 01:57:02,319 plant i'd entification, terminology, ship like that. I got to check out 1616 01:57:02,399 --> 01:57:05,279 Judge books, but I've heard a lot of good thing about things about it. 1617 01:57:06,039 --> 01:57:13,159 Um So al Gentry spook. What's that? What he? What are 1618 01:57:13,199 --> 01:57:18,640 he? Plants of Northwestern South America? Oh? I think that book transformed 1619 01:57:18,680 --> 01:57:25,720 botany. Let's see this Woody Plants of what is it? Southwestern North America? 1620 01:57:25,840 --> 01:57:30,079 It's called it's called wood he Plants of Northwestern South America. And I 1621 01:57:30,239 --> 01:57:34,560 call that my bible. That that's the book I spend most of my time 1622 01:57:34,640 --> 01:57:38,960 with in my twenties. Wait, what do plants? Oh? It's it's 1623 01:57:39,039 --> 01:57:45,720 Gentry right yeah. Let me get this Al Gentry book he died. I 1624 01:57:45,840 --> 01:57:48,720 think he didn't make it to fifty. He's play year old. Oh yeah, 1625 01:57:48,800 --> 01:57:54,239 I Field Guide to the Families and Genera of what he Plants of Northwest 1626 01:57:54,439 --> 01:57:58,079 South America? What the fuck? Well, Columbia, Ecuador, Peru. 1627 01:57:59,079 --> 01:58:05,319 That book damn it change for me? Man? What's something I gotta get 1628 01:58:05,399 --> 01:58:08,840 this now? Starting out in body, I didn't even hear about this. 1629 01:58:08,960 --> 01:58:14,840 I didn't always out there amazing. So that book, the Harrison Harris Glossary, 1630 01:58:15,039 --> 01:58:18,760 and the Simpson book and the Judd book, like, those are the 1631 01:58:18,760 --> 01:58:21,319 books that I would tell me about this book. Now, tell me about 1632 01:58:21,600 --> 01:58:26,760 tell me about Gentry's book. Illustrations by Rodolfo Vasco. Okay, So here's 1633 01:58:26,800 --> 01:58:30,520 the thing. When you want to learn a family and you have no botanical 1634 01:58:30,640 --> 01:58:41,039 knowledge, it's almost impossible, right. That book makes everything accessible. Yeah, 1635 01:58:41,199 --> 01:58:44,159 you go through it, you can learn some characters. I mean, 1636 01:58:44,199 --> 01:58:47,079 there's some hard words in there, like like what's a wasca odor, what's 1637 01:58:47,119 --> 01:58:54,159 a strong partner? Did take a leave? And part of the bark comes 1638 01:58:54,199 --> 01:58:59,439 off? Okay, let's listen to day We're time to look casey. So 1639 01:58:59,640 --> 01:59:02,600 you start using that and you start thinking, like, Gentry, God, 1640 01:59:02,680 --> 01:59:05,399 this thing's a fucking yeah man, this I've never heard of this book before. 1641 01:59:05,399 --> 01:59:08,439 You just put this on my radar. Thank you for that. Holy 1642 01:59:08,479 --> 01:59:12,399 shit, seventy seven books. But you can probably find a cheap copy on 1643 01:59:12,479 --> 01:59:15,720 ebabe either way, you know what I bet it's it's probably on lib Gin 1644 01:59:15,960 --> 01:59:19,039 that I s too. But it first came out it was twenty five dollars 1645 01:59:19,600 --> 01:59:24,479 through the Chicago Press and then I think it got taken over by I don't 1646 01:59:24,479 --> 01:59:27,760 know, Princeton and Press or something. I just got the faint I just 1647 01:59:27,840 --> 01:59:30,479 got the faint whiff of like a of a fucking or burium, you know, 1648 01:59:30,640 --> 01:59:33,800 like old newsprint and plant material. I don't know why. Just looking 1649 01:59:33,840 --> 01:59:35,520 at this, I was like, Oh, this looks like a book I 1650 01:59:35,520 --> 01:59:40,880 would have seen in the Field Museum or bury um. You know. I 1651 01:59:40,960 --> 01:59:45,199 just love lurking in a barrier. They got ten of pretty good library and 1652 01:59:45,319 --> 01:59:47,359 book collections to They got nice shit on the walls too. The uh, 1653 01:59:47,960 --> 01:59:51,920 you got some nice wall decorations that they are barium nearest to you right now? 1654 01:59:53,039 --> 01:59:57,119 Or what? I got some nice posters. I have a map of 1655 01:59:57,159 --> 02:00:04,960 Cuba. I have app of the Andes in Colombia. I have some lithographs. 1656 02:00:05,359 --> 02:00:10,880 This sounds a lot of reps. This sounds excellent the fucking maps too. 1657 02:00:11,039 --> 02:00:14,960 Especially is it the with Cuba? What is it? What's the max 1658 02:00:15,000 --> 02:00:21,359 elevation there? You know, like eight thousand feet it's Pico Turkeno. Here's 1659 02:00:21,359 --> 02:00:28,399 it? So cool day in the Dominican Republic, there's three thousand, two 1660 02:00:28,520 --> 02:00:31,760 hundred. It's like ten thousand feet sixty five seventy eight feet in Cuba. 1661 02:00:32,560 --> 02:00:40,279 Okay, that's the highest mountain on the eastern seaboard. Oh yeah, that's 1662 02:00:40,359 --> 02:00:44,840 right, Mitchell. I never got up there. Wait wait, wait, 1663 02:00:44,880 --> 02:00:47,399 wait, wait say it again. What's the elevation. I think it's three 1664 02:00:47,439 --> 02:00:56,560 thousand, Holy man, I could I When I got up to the highlands, 1665 02:00:56,600 --> 02:00:59,520 I had like one day left. I barely yeah. Oh okay, 1666 02:00:59,560 --> 02:01:00,880 it's yeah, he could do art, pole do art. It's like ten 1667 02:01:00,920 --> 02:01:05,520 thousand, one hundred and seventy four. Yeah, yeah, yeah, thirty 1668 02:01:05,560 --> 02:01:11,760 one. I just got up to all those Dantonia doming gainsts, you know, 1669 02:01:11,840 --> 02:01:15,800 those that cool grass, that grassland with the with the pines above it, 1670 02:01:15,920 --> 02:01:20,560 like this basically like high elevation pine savannah with just fucking god man, 1671 02:01:20,720 --> 02:01:27,319 so much cool shit up there. And I barely right, I barely had 1672 02:01:27,439 --> 02:01:29,960 enough time. I don't have to look, I forget, but I barely 1673 02:01:30,000 --> 02:01:32,520 had enough time to to putz around there anymore. I had to go back, 1674 02:01:32,560 --> 02:01:35,000 but I was I just remember being you know, just blown away. 1675 02:01:35,039 --> 02:01:41,880 I mean just just cool bromeliads everywhere, this really cool uh rubioids, really 1676 02:01:41,920 --> 02:01:47,319 cool melostomes. The melostome diversity there's insane. Uh god, damn it, 1677 02:01:47,399 --> 02:01:53,039 man. Yeah, yeah, no, I totally do I totally I loved 1678 02:01:53,039 --> 02:01:58,039 it there. Everyone drives like a maniac. It's affordable, people are chill, 1679 02:01:58,720 --> 02:02:00,720 they got a good they got a lot of good botanists there. Uh 1680 02:02:00,840 --> 02:02:04,000 and like a wide they got deserts and cloud forests, which are my two 1681 02:02:04,079 --> 02:02:11,239 favorite habitats. So it's like, you know, it's fucking everything. Well, 1682 02:02:11,319 --> 02:02:13,560 John, thanks so much, man. I really appreciate you being down 1683 02:02:13,640 --> 02:02:16,560 to do this and hopefully exciting. Hopefully we'll bump into each o. Listen, 1684 02:02:16,720 --> 02:02:18,800 I'm gonna hopefully go to Florida in a month too. When are you 1685 02:02:18,840 --> 02:02:21,880 going to Florida? What are you moving there? Down there in two weeks? 1686 02:02:23,000 --> 02:02:27,279 Oh shit, Okay, are you gonna miss Jersey at all? Uh 1687 02:02:30,000 --> 02:02:31,359 so? Yeah? Yeah. Is your wife here's the thing. Is your 1688 02:02:31,399 --> 02:02:36,840 wife into it? Or is she gonna she's She's okay, So she's gonna 1689 02:02:36,960 --> 02:02:41,239 You're gonna be going back and forth anyway. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. 1690 02:02:41,359 --> 02:02:46,880 But here's the thing. I'm passionate about plants. I can Telloanical Gardens 1691 02:02:47,439 --> 02:02:53,439 is an excellent fit because they're also passionate about plants. I'll have to man, 1692 02:02:53,439 --> 02:02:56,159 I gotta check it out. Yeah, I uh, there's a lot 1693 02:02:56,239 --> 02:02:58,600 of good ship in Florida. Man, I was, I would. I 1694 02:02:58,720 --> 02:03:03,319 hadn't been to Florida since I was like five. Come visit and I will 1695 02:03:03,359 --> 02:03:11,479 show you around. You drink cafe you drink Cafe Boostello. I don't know 1696 02:03:11,520 --> 02:03:15,560 about it. No Cafe Boostello. It's uh, you know that little the 1697 02:03:15,720 --> 02:03:17,760 yellow cans are like the you know, the Cuban coffee. Oh, it's 1698 02:03:17,800 --> 02:03:21,680 fucking It'll blow your mind if you've never had it before. It's like it's 1699 02:03:21,760 --> 02:03:26,279 like crack, you know, it's it's yeah, it's I mean it's I 1700 02:03:26,399 --> 02:03:29,640 get like hard palpitations from drinking it. It's excellent though, and it's super 1701 02:03:29,760 --> 02:03:32,920 cheap. It's it's better than like any of the you know, high falutin 1702 02:03:33,079 --> 02:03:38,439 fancy lad coffee they got in these you know, these little bootique roseries popping 1703 02:03:38,520 --> 02:03:44,079 up all over American cities. Cafe Boostellos, the gym man. So I'm 1704 02:03:44,119 --> 02:03:45,680 not sure where it's from. I just know, you know, a lot 1705 02:03:45,720 --> 02:03:48,760 of Cuban coffee. I was when I used to live in you know, 1706 02:03:48,760 --> 02:03:54,800 in the South Southern neighborhood in Chicago. I was hanging out around PILs In 1707 02:03:54,840 --> 02:03:58,119 a bunch. They always had it in the Mexican grocery stores there. Uh 1708 02:03:58,800 --> 02:04:00,920 so, yeah, it's really strong. It's like a it's basically like an 1709 02:04:01,039 --> 02:04:05,199 espresso, so it's a yeah, good stuff man. But anyway, all 1710 02:04:05,239 --> 02:04:09,359 right, well cool, Hopefully hopefully I'll bump into you in the next coming 1711 02:04:09,439 --> 02:04:13,600 months and uh yeah we can hang out and shoot the ship and talk playing 1712 02:04:13,640 --> 02:04:17,159 some person. Absolutely. I've got a lot of work to do in Florida, 1713 02:04:17,239 --> 02:04:19,920 a lot of work to doing Florida, so a bunch of good stuff 1714 02:04:19,960 --> 02:04:21,560 I want to see. All right, brother, good talking you, Thanks 1715 02:04:21,600 --> 02:04:24,800 again, good talking to you too, Joey. Take care, take care 1716 02:04:24,880 --> 02:04:26,119 by yep, bye bye.