What is up, fellow Siko's I am Dan Valley, just coming at you
with intro a couple notes before Grant and I get to our one big question
for every NBA team in the Eastern Conference the first note, but not about
a team in the Eastern Conference. Just to cover my bases, admit,
when I had messed up, I talked about the New Orleans pel because not
being in the tax yet on the previous pod, they are in the tax.
Antonio Reeves actually signed his deal which was not on the sheet, and
while we were recording, I believe or I just missed it. It happened
before, but then I didn't even have Carlo Makovic, who that signing happened
a while ago, his number on the books, and so they are in
the tax. My opinion on whether they'll pay it hasn't changed. I'll be
shocked if they stay in the tax. It is something to note though,
as they go about the rest of their summer and any transactions that are come.
We just assume they're not done because you look at having their big man
rotation of you know, not just Zion Williamson and Daniel Tice. But is
eve Mee's he going to play this huge role. Will a give any minutes
to Carlo Makovic something to watch, but again, wanted to cross my bases
there. We had a couple of people point that out to me that they
were inside the tack. So thank you for to everyone for staying on my
shit. The other two notes that we have are about teams that we're going
to talk about. We'll start with the Indiana Pacers signed Andrew Nemhard to a
three year, fifty nine million dollar extension. It doesn't change anything that we
say about the Pacers. If anything, that kind of only complicates what we
talk about when we get into what are the opportunities going to be like for
Bennan mcmathn and Jarres Walker moving forward. The contract is interesting in the sense
that I don't think anyone will have sticker shock from it. It will kick
in in twenty twenty five, twenty six, that will be the first year,
and it will run through twenty twenty seven twenty eight, that's his age
twenty eight season. So this isn't you know, it's it's a shorter not
that it's a shorter extension, but you don't have to worry about it.
What's it going to look like by the end of it, that might be
something you get into with his next deal. I think this number is high
enough. If they scale it up, it'll be about twenty one million dollars
in his final year. That won't even be twelve percent of the salary cap.
Actually, this deal as of right now is not projected to be ever
twelve percent of the salary cap, So keep that in mind when you're looking
at, oh, twenty million bucks a year basically for Andrew Nemhard might be
a number they can extend him off of as well moving forward if things go
according to plan. What does get interesting though, is that, so this
runs through when you look at that second to last year of his contract,
and then also the last year the first So the second to last year you
would have Ben mcmatherin, in theory would be a restricted free agent or that
would be the first year of his extension, and then Jaris Walker in the
last year of Andrew Nemhard's deal, that would be the first year of his
next his next contract, whether he gets restricted free agency or signs an extension.
That final season gets a little interesting because the season before too, like
the I think in two years and he's gonna have some questions about how it
wants to structure its books overall. But that fine seasons interesting because it's of
right now they have about one fifty four, one hundred and fifty five million
dollars committed to Obi Toppin, Andrew Nemhard, Tyres Haliburton, and Pascal Siakam.
The salary cap that year is projected to just be super high. It's
not going to be two hundred million dollars. We're about we'd be about a
year away from that, but would be about one eighty seven. Maybe it
goes up a little bit from there, probably, but one hundred and eighty
seven million. So having one fifty four committed to about one fifty four and
a half committed to just four players. That's not saying that this roster's locked
in, but I think you would argue the four players are toping Haliburton,
Siakham, and Nemhard at this point. That's not accounting for what happens with
Mathrin and then also what happens with jars Walker. Of course, so like
those are numbers that could expand on the books did over Ben Shepard. This
is all just as of right now, super placeholders, but they're big names
and they're including Miles Turner. So when you read the first four names with
like three of those guys you hope are around probably in Nemhard, Siakam and
Halliburton. Again, nothing to say of anyone else is under contract. Just
something I'm I think it was. I think it was a good deal by
the Pacers. He showed out in the playoffs, but he's also been good
for a minute now where maybe we don't know if he had that sort of
super high end offensive outcome that we see him sustained for. I don't want
to say mini burst, but medium size burst. I think it's a good
deal for the Pacers. I think it's a good deal for Nemhart too,
just to lock down some security that's still life changing money. Finally, another
extension to report the Knicks did extend Tom Thibodeau. It's the only thing.
We just threw it away, and it was a throwaway comment about whether they
or we said they would extend him by the end of the summer, and
then a few hours later they extended him. We don't know the exact numbers.
I think Ian Begley and I heard this on the Knicks Film School Reaction
podcast I was listening to texted Jonathan Macree, the host of that show,
to say that Tom thibodeau money is commeasure with the other coaching raises we've seen,
and so that just means that he is making eight figures annually. He's
probably north of ten million dollars a year. The extension, same as Nemhard,
runs through the twenty twenty seven twenty eight season. I think, you
know, I'm I probably fell somewhere in the middle with Tom Tibbeau. I
think the jokes about the minutes management are actually they're genuine. Still, I
don't think that you can't look at anything he's done, and I guess really
point too, oh, like, what do you really mean? I think
he can still be a little quick or stubborn when it comes to young players,
but I do think he's become a more flexible coach overall. And I
look a lot to the team this past year, not just because they were
good and we know that if you want your team to bank more wins than
expected, Tom tibbot is a good coach to have, but I look at
how he ran the team this year, and he was forced to do things
like this because of the Robinson injury, because of the Randall injury, just
because of having so many injuries, but just downsizing a lot playing underside.
He's played undersized fards for like two years now. It feels like we saw
some three guard lineups, which is why I won't spoil what we're talking about.
I'm optimistic that what Grant and I discussed will come to fruition unless the
Knicks go out and make any changes to their roster for the rest of this
summer that could be considered material changes that actually impact their rotation. But I
think, look, you you have to do this deal, like just based
off what he's done for you these past few years. And Knicks Film's go
to an entering discussion and I just I hadn't given it a thought, but
they said he's on the Mount Rushmore Knicks head coaches, and it's like,
yeah, and so I will say what I haven't gotten into when we're actually
gonna have Andrew Claudio Knicks Film school on. I think while Grant's on vacation,
we have something on the books. I can't remember the data time right
now, I marked it down. I'm going I think there's value. We'll
get at this more of having even if you don't we make fun of just
sort of the CAAA ties and the Knicks, but just we've also talked about
the lack of alignment between front office and coaching staff and certain organizations at point,
and there does seem to be from the front office to the coaching staff
to the players. I don't know if you unique is too strong of a
term here, but certainly a strong sense of alignment of cohesiveness between all those
levels where everyone sort of feels like they're on the same page that I don't
think you can say about a lot of organizations in the NBA. Now.
We know there's been disconnects before, or I would point to the cam Retis
trades specifically with how Tom Thibodau used him and how the front office seemed to
value him, but all the jokes about the off court relationships in mind in
some ways to this point anyway, it seems to really have benefited the Knicks.
I actually don't think that gets talked about enough. We've talked about how
confident the front office is. We've talked about how Tibbs has changed, we
talked about Jallen Brunson taking pay cut, accepting less money than he could have
been eligible forore this summer next summer. So that's an interesting thing that probably
deserves more attention here and sort of a good way. Now. The Knicks
are entering next year with expectations a ton of them. This not that this
past season was free money, but no one was predicting the finish with the
second best record in the East. And I can probably tell you right now,
even if you said, oh, the nixt trader for Ogannonoby, if
you looked at kind of how much time Julis Randall missed specifically, and even
Mitchell Robinson, he still probably wouldn't have predicted it. And then if you
also time o Gannoby missed upon upon arriving in New York. So there's a
ton of pressure here. And not just say that I think he would get
fired. He's not gonna get fired in the middle of the season in order
to get fired if they have a letdown next year. Progress also isn't linear
that East could at the top theoretically be tougher if Cleveland's healthy, if Orlando
gets better, if Philly's healthy, and they should be better, Miami could
technically be be healthier, and of course you have Boston there. Milwaukee is
healthier. So this isn't I'm not already poo pooing the top Thibeau deal.
It's just that this entire organization now is under a different sort of microscope because
we're taught, and like Knicks fans, I don't think they'll be offended by
the sentiment, because I certainly wouldn't be. It's surreal that we're entering next
season. The end of the debate is or the Knicks the second best team
of the East, or the Knicks the biggest threat to the Boston Celtics to
make it out of the East and get it into the NBA Finals. That's
the level at which they're being scrutinized, and so that puts everyone John Brunton,
Wow, accept that extension. Accepted that extension. If he ends up
having a bad year, you don't after finishing top five in MVP voting,
you don't think people are gonna come after him. It's a different level of
pressure that they're facing. I am very high on the team. I don't
know that I've settled on them as my second best team in the East,
but they are one of two or three teams in that conversation that'll do it
though, So hopefully you enjoy this episode. Thank you for the support.
As always, let's get to mining Grant's one big question for every NBA team
in the Eastern Conference. What is up, fellow siccos I am Dan Valley
coming at you with my certified fantabulous co host, mister Grant Hughes. Before
he leaves for a much deserved vacation, we will miss him around these parts,
but we've already pre recorded some content for you and I'll have I think
a few guests lined up very quickly before we get started. We're doing questions
we still have for every single NBA team in the Eastern Conference. Go check
out the Western Conference podcast that we put out on Wednesday that's already up.
That was almost two hours long, I believe, so this one, I
believe will be significantly quicker. But we'll see, and very quickly before we
get started. The sicco collection by Hardwin Knox has officially dropped. You can
find the links on YouTube in the podcast and YouTube descriptions. Please continue to
support the show going that route and pick up some really cool merch I have
it, and they all fit very nicely. They've held up in the wash.
I would say, maybe go up a size on the crew What do
they call those? Grant that they're sweatshirts without hoodies? Are those crew necks
nobody knows? Okay, So the ones that nobody knows, the sweatshirts without
hoods, I would recommend maybe sizing up if you like a bagy or look.
But all the stuff, I was happy. Grant and I were happy
with the way the designs came out. So again, go check out that
merch drop and send us a screenshot or email of it. All the links
that you need discord during the podcast YouTube description, our social handles, and
I will email you some hardwood knocks, custom made magnets that are not for
sale only. Grant and I have them. That's exclusive, so you hold
on to that those will be worth something someday. Mister Hughes, how are
you doing since we last spoke thirty seconds ago? I'm doing really well well.
Since we last boke thirty seconds ago for over two hours, including off
mic in on mic, so not a lot has changed. I got a
new water bottle that I'm drinking from, so I'm excited about that because I
ran out of coffee in my cup. That's that's pretty much it. He
didn't consume anything that wasn't made to be eaten. Uh, you know who
can say, Uh, he was out of my sight for a full two
hours, Like he might have eaten I don't know, like a shovel,
Like I don't know what he could get his hands on, like a television
potentially, is the what was it your your son's tablet? Is that the
weirdest thing that he's eaten so far? Is there something weirdest? Well,
I would just it's kind of like the bottom of the ocean, like nobody's
really sure what's going on down there. Whatever the weirdest thing is, Like,
I just don't know, because he did it without me realizing. Yeah,
he ate a He had a good portion of a smart watch. Uh,
to the best of my knowledge, did not make it to the batteries.
But I am a conscientious and attentive pet owner. It's just that we
only recently learned he could get up onto the counter. Uh with his He's
got great length. That's the scouting report is just short legs, but great
length, long spine can get up into areas he shouldn't be able to reach,
and so iron stomach. Maybe, let's hope. So he's not feeling
great today, So this could be a very dark podcast if things take a
turn, and if that's not what it is, No, but he has
survived a great deal of consumption of things that should not be consumed. So
I believe in him. I think he's gonna be okay. But he does
not. He's not. He's not. If he is capable of regret,
he is regretting. He also ate a rock yesterday, so he washed down
the portion of the smart watch with a rock. So, you know that's
The rocks make me nervous because Cosmo, our puppy, has started picking those
up and he doesn't he's not trying to eat them, but he's just sprinting
with them and they drop out of his mouth. Willy nilly. It's like,
well that could literally just go the other directions. Sure, yeah,
well, you know he's got to work up to actually eating it. He's
you know, he's the scatter report on bird is durability through the roof questionable
decision making though, so he's not necessarily a max contract no brainer, just
yet, it's not close he is. He is a low floor, high
ceiling prospect. At this point, we just don't know. It's it's too
soon to say. So we will go alphabetically again with the Atlanta Hawks,
Grant and I have questions to choose from. It'll be dealer's choice when they're
posing it to the other person. I said, we go alphabetically. Just
the way we're doing this is they're gonna vary for micro to macro questions.
It's really just dependent on team situation and more so our feel for where they're
headed at this point in the off season. But it's kind of most we
believe of the offseason craziness is wound down. I mean, Tias Jones is
still inside and that's pretty bizarre. But the Larry market and stuff is going
on that should not impact any team in this conference. Sorry Miami Heat fans,
but I don't think you're gonna be involved in that one. Grant,
are you ready for me to pose a question to you about the Atlanta Hawks?
I am prepared great. So I want to be the nerd and say
will Jalen Johnson get an extension? But I have to go national NBA podcast
cliche and say so what is this team's end game heading into next season?
So the best I can say is is kind of like a four now answer,
which is to say that, like they did trade Dejonte Murray, they
are now reoriented around Trey Young as the primary ball handler. Getting Dyson Daniels
back makes a lot of sense for the roster now, but it is also
kind of to which is why this question is legit. It's like, well,
but he's also really young, and we don't know, like is he
gonna be more helpful the next two years or like in years three through five,
assuming they keep them around. I think what I'd say is this team's
direction is they are trying to win as many games as they can for now,
and they're gonna see what this looks like up to the trade deadline.
But if we get to February or even before that, if things are going
poorly in like December, the Tray Young trade chatter is just gonna ratchet back
up, and we'll be looking at a team that suddenly is a huge candidate
to rebuild. So it's like, there's not I don't feel there's this like
a stable direction at the moment. It's more like, here's what we're trying.
We're more than willing to pivot out of this if it doesn't work out
well because Trey Young is like I thought Trey Young would be the guy to
move. He wasn't. I still think they'll revisit that if this look just
doesn't work. Don't you? And do you think this is just this is
what they're going with for five years? You no one has this is not
I mean, it's directed at you, but it's directed at everyone. No
one has convinced me that trading Tray Young makes sense, especially with de Jontay
Mario already gone. If you're not getting back your own draft picks from the
San Antonio Spurs, you have to sell me on this idea that you could
say bite, you know, just tough it out and those picks are gone.
Deal with it. It's your next three drafts. I don't if they
make that call, I don't see that being this season. Can I can
I give you my reasons why I won't leave it alone? Yeah, I
can't wait to tell you why you're wrong, because you're right. Like it's
just it's just it is like a hard sell if you don't really it's like
why Brooklyn did what it did. Like with the Houston trade, it's a
hard sell if you're not benefiting from tanking by potentially drafting number one or whatever,
you know, getting into the top four. So so like that stands
against the Trey Young trade. I think I just lean on it's I guess
it's some intuition, but it's also just the fact that like for almost his
entire tenure, there has there have been questions about one, like, can
you really build a winner with a guy that is on the ball this much?
That doesn't help you defensively answer TBD got a conference finals out of it,
but that feels like the outlier. The other is just like there's constant
whispers, rumblings whatever that like they just like guys don't like to play with
him. He's not a good leader. He's really aloof like he just you
know, there have been like semi serious discussions about him moving, and it's
never I've never been convinced by the like tamping down of those when you hear
it from the Hawks or from him. So it just it's one of those
things that it's been an issue for so long that it's just like you think
about NBA history and like when it's an issue for this long, eventually the
trade happens, and so like part of that is an indictment of Young as
a leader, as an alpha, but part of it is just you don't
have this much smoke for this long without a fire eventually breaking out, I
guess is the messed up like way I try to analogize it. So that's
all. But you're right, like practically speaking, if you can't get your
picks back, like you're tanking's not great, which is what you would probably
do if you're trading Trey and you would have to ident if you're gonna go
that rout. I would think you have to identify the team where we still
want their immediate draft equity even though they have Trey Young. And it's like,
all right, I guess the Pistons, what are the teams It's like
they trade for Trey Young, we still want their draft picks that are coming
down instead of our own. A very quick question for them. I didn't
want to put this as a main course one, but who plays more backup
point guard next year? Dyson Daniels or Kobe Buffkin. Can I just say
Bogdanovic? No, he's not one of the who plays more point guard reps.
I mean, Bogdanovic can do it, but that was kind of they
haven't. I mean, Kobe Buffkin is a point guard prospect who I was
pretty high on when he was going out of the draft. But Dyson dani
because he doesn't have this basing element yet. Although he hit there's a three
he he hit actually same game against Drills, an ultra deep three, and
then he has one that goes like off the side of the backboard from the
corner. Dyce and Daniels experience and less and Daniel's pluses and minuses are well
understood at this point. If it's me, I would play Daniels more just
because I think the upside of him as someone you know, that that can
give you a different look as like an ace defender, and maybe at some
point play with Trey Young, although that's just I don't know how realistic that
is at this point. You just almost have to have like a big,
you know, wing or two next to him. Ideally, I like Daniels
just better in general, so I would play him more overall and at the
point just to see because if he if he can just be a point guard
that can play like starters minutes not happening this year, but like that's a
prospect. I'm very interested in Buffkin. Buffkin, I'm I guess I've seen
less one but two I don't know that he has like the Daniels can change
game is defensively kind of already and so I would like to see if he
can do more than that to kind of really up his profile. Boston coming
up next. Unless you have more thoughts on Kobe Buffkin, Let's see how
long have they preard to fill this? Okay, we have to do the
big man question is interesting, but let's let's just talk big, bigger picture.
How long is Boston gonna spend like this, like to just loop in
the sam Houser four for forty five extension, just adding money to I want
to say, maybe you have the number, but it's something like we're getting
up to like four hundred and fifty million including a roll in tax or even
higher than that. Yeah, I won't pretend to have done this calculation myself.
Bobby Marx has it. But after the sam Houser for year forty five
million dollars extension in twenty five twenty six, their projected salary is two hundred
and twenty five million dollars, which means there's projected tax penalty is two hundred
and ten yeah million dollars. And by the way, if they finish over
the second Apron, that's he's in their twenty thirty three draft pick will not
be able to be traded. So and by the way, they're a second
Apron team this year. So now you're getting to a point where it's so
we have to think about are we okay with our draft pick just being not
off just limits, but locked in position X until we're out of the second
Apron. So I and I think this comes down to it's twofold, where
well, who is gonna end up being the collateral damage of like their spending
breaching its limit? And I view this as one maybe this is a whole
like Wick grouse Beck is decided, well, I'm not trying to sell the
team. We'll still control it, so I'm not gonna have to worry about
this for too much longer to be on the hook for the full whatever.
I just kind of look at it as like they're gonna do it through next
season, and then they're gonna do it through twenty five to twenty six,
and then all right, christophs Porzingis is a free agent that year, and
that's when we kind of just we figure out if we're gonna cut costs or
that's just the easy costs, like, all right, his thirty million bucks
are coming off the books, and then we'll tink her from there. But
I would think, and I think it changes that they win a title again
this upcome, which they should be favored even with the Porzingis injury, I
would argue. But I think as of right now, let's just say they
don't win the title in twenty five, I would expect him to kind of
float this exact core when you and I'll say, the exact core of White
Tatum Brown Holiday for at least two more seasons, So this coming one in
twenty five twenty six, would you disagree or do you think it's longer shorter?
I don't think it's longer, just because I think the holiday will have
probably aged past being what he is now in a couple of years. But
I think you have to go at least two more unless unless like something you
know, just assume we're not talking about like catastrophic injury or like you know,
innerperson, Jalon Brown decides he wants recognition as the number one option.
Yeah, Jalen Brown goes to war with Nike and they disappear him for a
long time. I don't know, I don't know. There's a lot of
ways. There's a lot of ways this could break up that we haven't really
thought too much about. Uh No, I think you have to do it
for obviously this here, obviously the year after that, and then I don't
know, then maybe you're reassessing, but like you're kind of already on the
hook for these the second apron penalties like you. That's I think explains the
Hawser deal. Partially, it's like one, it's a movable number, like
if we do need to trade, that's part of it. But it's also
like, what the hell like in for a penny, we might as well
just pretend that these rules aren't there. We got a title, let's get
like one or two more, and then we'll just have to start over.
I don't know. It's got a longer shelf life than you'd think for how
the numbers you just said in terms of payroll and tacks, and from my
perspective, it's not I mean, I know billionaire owners will think this way
anyway. It's not about the money. It's about the limitations you might be
subjecting yourself to, Like in Boston's case, it's not even the transactional limitations
in the moment where it's all right, like, we'll stack our top seven
to eight for the next three years against any top seven eight and guess what,
it'll still probably rank no lower than third, like ever during that window
if things they exactly same. It's what you're subjecting yourself to when you look
at the draft picks where it's like, oh, we're having not that we
can't trade these draft picks, but if they get moved to the end of
the draft, like, is that when we need to start looking at,
Oh, we have to get out of this because we do have to plan
for the next era of and we don't want our draft picks just coming at
the end of the draft at a time when okay, twenty thirty two,
that's like, no, this team is probably not together. They're probably not
championship favorites in twenty thirty two. That shouldn't be a spicy take to anyone,
are they Are they scouting like fifth graders right now? For that draft
is that look, But if you think about it, in twenty thirty two,
that'll be Jason Tatum's age nineteen seasons, so there's nobody that window.
I'll actually do the bath. I think like it'll be his age twenty seven,
but I respect the commitment to Jason Tatum is nineteen forever. Are you
ready for Brooklyn? Yeah? Hit me. I'm not gonna hit you.
I like you as a co host, so I'm not gonna choose. Let's
see. Oh no, I did ask you a last one, so it
is your turn deliver the question to me. Please. I want to ask
all these questions, but I'm not. I'm actually not gonna ask the will
Dorrian, Phiney Smith or Cam Johnson be traded this offseason? What grant as
of right now? What is this team's identity on the court? Oh,
what is their identity? Well? I will say they are not gonna be
the top five defense. I kind of thought they might have been last year
before the season. I do remember that take of mine. What kind of
team? I mean? They just don't. They don't have one. Uh,
they they don't. All these guys feel like by Chauncey Billups basically like
that's how the rosters built at the Yeah, I just like, okay,
well let's really try to simplify it. Is this a defense first team?
I guess you know, you have Claxton, you have Finny Smith, but
you're also gonna play Cam Thomas a lot, probably Cam Johnson, maybe Boganovic.
Like, I just I don't think this is a defense first team.
I just maybe Claxton being there is like, well, we're gonna switch and
guard and be chaotic and whatever. Is it an offensive team? I guess
maybe having Thomas and what is Dennis Shrewder running the team? Is that?
Is that what we're doing? Uh? I don't, I don't. It
doesn't. It doesn't have one. Is this a team that is like very
clear? A collection of players that are stop gaps that are you know,
not there's no star, there's It's just I don't know what the identity is,
do you, Like? I guess if you had to choose offense,
defense or some other direction, Like, it just feels like these are short
term, short timers that are just here until they can be flipped for something
that then allows you to build an identity. I think that what was the
word you use? Chaos? Feels like that's how they're gonna I think they're
gonna end up having to play fast. They're trying to offset the lack of
offensive talent, and then I think that will in turn make them pretty bad
defensively. And that's what I kind of I don't know if that's their delibered
identity, but I feel like that's how they're gonna end up playing. What
do you think is more likely than though? Because these might be that Cam
Thomas gets an extension, or that two of Dennis shrud or two or more
of Dennis Ruter, Nicholas Claston, Cam Johnson and Dorian Phinney Smith get traded
by the deadline. The trade one, I just like, if you're not
trading, if you're not trading Phinney Smith, or you're not and you're not
trading Cam Johnson Claxton, I guess you've paid him as if you intend to
keep him. But that's also a movable number. I think in my mind
I would view every single player on Brooklyn through the prism of like what is
he worth in a trade as opposed to like what's he giving us on the
floor this year? I just don't I don't think the team is operating like,
well, if this clicks here and there and we can get this combination
or this lineup works, we can win forty three games. Like I just
I don't think they're thinking about themselves that way. Is there any player on
this team you're like excited excited to watch next year? I might be the
Reek Whitehead for me if he's gonna be healthy him or Noah Clowney. But
that's just like, and that's not insulting camp Thomas. It's just I kind
of feel like I have a hold of what he is and what he's going
to be, and so those are just the those are the names I kind
of identify. I mean, we haven't talked about Zion Williams, which is
I you know, that's not a play that Brooklyn should make, is go
get a guy that might be might have absolutely zero. But also at one
point was viewed as being like, this guy's gonna start on the wing for
a good team. I'm legally not allowed to talk about zioniam Yeah, after
thinking he could be like a Chris Middleton type, and now it's kind of
I still would hold out hope. I said this to someone on Twitter the
other days like, I feel like he could still be like the higher end
of Ottle Porter junior type, like a slow, more slender Otto Porter junior.
And I'm just I'm not allowed to talk about it. That's fair.
I probably shouldn't be either, because he's, oh well, he's coming up.
What that rookie year he was in the rotation for a really good Grizzly
team. I think, by default, my most exciting player is Claxton.
He's the he's the best player, and you know what, You're right.
I want to see him run picking rolls next to why not like try everything,
see if he's more than just the defensive player. I don't know,
I I think I would like to. I kind of always have liked him,
maybe more than consensus. Uh. I would like to see him get
back to two years ago level at the surrounding talent. I think if you
watch him on a semi regular basis, and this isn't like a flex,
but if you watch him regularly, it's impossible not to think he's better than
the consensus because you see these open space drives or finishes in track, and
it's I said this and I really meant it. Sometimes when he's attacking off
the dribble going downhill. I like forget that it's not Kevin Durant of like
ten years ago. And again that's the one thing, it's the one type
of play play veg. But it's just like it's impossible not to watch that
be like, well, like this guy's more than just kind of like the
rim runner and can do a bunch of things on the defensive end and switch
and also the highlights are just profuse. We're not so much last year,
but just like him switching and just locking down absolutely everybody above the three point
line. Yeah, no, I I just think he's so clearly the best
player on this team. You know, Ben Simmons off season workout videos looking
good. Let's move on. I have one for you for the Charlotte Hornets.
I love this question because it is just like my one of my most
uncertain aspects of any team. So you phrased it as well, they have
to lean into the tank and in parentheticals, could they be too good if
everyone's healthy. Because you change ownership, you change the front office, you
change the head coach. You're you've got Brandon Miller last year, you took
a project in Salon this year you're rebuilding, right, except like, oh,
by the way, there's like actual NBA talent spread all over this roster.
So will they have to do this on purpose? Will they have to
force themselves into losses? Or are they going to get there on their own?
Well, they're kind of already proven. They're leaning into the tank by
waving Reggie Jackson right like that was the course. But I mean, let's
let's look at this projected ten man rotation. So you have I don't know
if this will end up being the starting five, but LaMelo Ball, Brandon
Miller, Josh Green, Miles Bridges, and Mark Williams are your five.
And then I'm just gonna pencil in t J. Salon for actual minutes,
just because they spent a pretty high draft pic on him and I kind of
like him a lot of Hornets fans. I posted a clip of a Hornet
segment I did our way. They just assume he's going to be incredible right
out of the gate, and that's that's a choice. If you want him,
it's nice, that's great. So you have him Salon Cody Martin,
who he hasn't been healthy for two seasons, but he's also not that far
removed from being like the NBA's pre eminent connector at both ends of the floor.
Grant Williams played great for them when he came over the trade. You
still have Nick Richards who might be a trade candidate. And then there's is
it Seth Curry or is it vasile micicic like? Is it both? Because
they're just in rebuilding mode. They're gonna play twelve guys and so let's throw
a tray man in her too, And maybe Tosh Gibson play so well that
the Knicks trade for him. So I just yes, they're gonna have to
lean into the tank. Is I think if LaMelo ball is healthy, I
will say. And that's the other thing is when I list off all those
names, there's only one player. Maybe it's Brandon Miller. So it's too
that you remove from the equation and say, oh, they have no chance
of being better than expected. And but that's a real NBA roster. I
don't know if they've done it on purpose. I don't think they did it
with the intention of competing for a play in spot, which I still don't
expect them to make. But I think this is a team and it doesn't
have to be on the level of should they entertain trading LaMelo ball this year?
But like they have just players Grant Williams, Nick Richards, Cody Martin.
If these guys are healthy, teams are going to want them and they
will contribute enough to your product to where that might be the difference between you
winning thirty plus games and settling in in the sub twenty five area. No,
I think that's it. That's why their actions to this point other like
the Bridge's signing is confounding for a lot of reasons, but the way they've
operated is like, well, this is a team that is not starting over
because there is just too much talent. But like, winning a bunch of
games this year does not seem to be the priority, except like the talent
there, you might just back into thirty eight wins if you don't do anything
maybe more, I don't know. You don't have to get all the way
to the bottom. And that's the other thing to remember, Like if you're
the fifth worst record, you got a fighting change, you know you're that's
that's enough where you don't have to really start shutting guys down or like you
know, trading Grant Williams for nothing, but a pick or something like that.
But it's gonna be it's at least gonna be a decision at some point.
I think. I think the best case scenario that LaMelo gets shut down
and it's not injury related. It's like this guy was so healthy, we
were so good that like, all right, you know what, it's March,
you take the rest of the season off. Yeah, well, it's
it is if that's how late it is, you know, if that's when
it happens. Yeah, I don't. I don't know. I you wouldn't
think that a whole new leadership group would be you know, wanting. There's
a lot of holdovers, there's a lot of like veterans that kind of don't
quite fit all. This is a pretty young team generally speaking. Yeah,
I don't know. I do. I guess of the choice they might be
bad enough organically, like if LaMelo misses time like that, you have to
sort of price that in given the last two years. But because it's not
just like an if you'd apply like well, if Jason Tatum's hurt the Celtics,
it's like, no, LaMelo ball played like fifty some odd games over
the last couple of years. I think it's gonna wind up being a situation
where we see kind of last year where it's two to three of their top
eight guys end up getting dealt at the trade deadline, and maybe it's they're
still kind of bad, but this ensures that they're bad enough. But like,
I'm not talking about LaMelo or Brandon Miller even necessarily Mark Williams, but
Miles Bridges certainly will be. I think we'll be a trade candidate if the
teams want to give up equity for him, and you have Cody Martin,
a, Nick Richards, Grant Williams, guys who could be finishing touches for
really good teams, I think we'll all end up being on the just some
look, something might get traded this offseason, still possible. All right,
that's that's Charlotte. Let's see, so I should for you. Yeah,
I think we have to go wholesale here, Grant. Are they actually rebuilding?
I think they're doing the best they can so far. It's just I
think, just well the best they can. They have done some things that
you would confuse for rebuilding, which is a huge step forward for them.
I think I've also kind of done it wrong, like letting Derozen get to
free agency and all that stuff. So the arguments against them rebuilding are that
Patrick Williams got that ninety million dollars ninety five for ninety Is that what it
was? Yeah, man, gotta get over the sticker shock stuff. That's
actually not that bad going forward, but it is still surprising. I don't
know who's paying him that. But like Josh Giddy here, you would think
that you would have gotten draft picks if you're really rebuilding. But Giddy is
young. I understand wanting a player, it's not wrong to say, and
maybe the age is a big part of it, and perhaps Giddy just has
an incredible year, but they gave up the player who is better in that
deal and is also going to cost less moving forward after next season. Yeah,
that's just a just a bad trade. Like I'm trying to defend it
for him. How about this, I think their hands just maybe tied on
Levine and Vucevic. I just don't think anybody wants those guys. I think
they would trade them if they had like a half decent offer for either of
them. So I think they are actually rebuilding. It's just that, like
the process up to this point was so mismanaged that it's really hard to like
to actually get a full rebuild going. If that makes sense. Now,
I would agree with you. Do you trust the way that they've gone about
entering this rebuild? And the answer should just be no, Because tonight,
if you wanted Josh Giddy as part of the Cruser trade Frinds as part emphasis
on, part of the Caruso trade, not the entire fucking package, and
then you like the DeRos and stuff, Oh, you couldn't see a scenario
where you want to bring him back coming and so you should have traded him
at the deadline or last summer, and instead you put yourself in a situation
because you just had to. I don't have a problem with any of these
deals on its face, but was Patrick williams end or Jalen Smith worth putting
yourself in a payroll situation that you could have ignored but proximity to the tax
to where you couldn't take back the best outgoing asset in the Demarti Rosen sign
and trade. No, the Spurs did that, and honestly, they got
Harrison Barnes, which is probably the second best outgoing asset as part of the
Demarta Rosen trade, so like, and those are past mistakes coming back to
bite them, so on some level you can't hold it against them. But
the Caruso stuff specifically, I don't know, that wasn't an issue of them
waiting to Yeah, maybe they could have gotten more if Crusoe was traded mid
season or had the extra year left on his deal, but that's that's a
choice they actively made where it was like, we could have I've gotten draft
picks for caruse and we decided not to and that's what's giving me. And
by the way, the other thing they did just kind of weird. You
probably could have gotten multiple second round picks for Andre Drummond at you just decided
that one of the best backup bigs in the yet. But bye, But
that's yeah, like you really I'm trying not to hold against the bulls,
like the seventeen stupid anti rebuild things they've done over the last three four I
guess, I mean getting close to five years now, But like, even
if you trim those off the ledger, you still have the Caruso return,
you still have the very recent derosen Just why why did you? Like this
is just we're just talking about the last trade deadline, Like it's not like,
Yo, you should have moved him five years ago, Like you definitely
could have gotten more if you'd moved them at the trade deadline. Cruso,
for sure. Like so, I still think they're trying to rebuild. I
just think they're bad at it, like they're they're doing it wrong. If
they're not doing it right. I hope it comes out that they were trying
to trade Russo for Josh Giddy at the trade deadline and Oklahoma City wouldn't do
it, so they deliberately waited to trade Caruso until this deal was available to
them. That would be the most I think, but it is. It
does seem like they're rebuilding, and that's the refreshing part of just Okay,
they're not actively trying to aim for the bottom of the middle anymore, and
that's we have to see the rest of it play out. I am just
worried though that the way they've gone about this, when you go from Caruso
to and you're getting rid of de Rozan, so there's more touches to go
around. But I would be worried that, especially if you feel committed to
playing Zach Lavine what does this do to just the strides that Kobe White and
Iota soon MoU made last year When you're inserting two high usage backcourt players back
into your rotation, Yeah, it's tough, Like you know, we both
love both of those guys. It's it's also still like Kobe White is still
not at the level where you're like, well, we got a tailor everything
to making sure he's maximized. It's just like he's the best they got in
terms of like a projectable young player who might continue getting better. It's just
still there's still a lot of limbo happening here. Typical if you're actually rebuilding,
I would say, I don't even want to use the word correct.
But if you're serious about rebuilding, aren't io to student move and Kobe White
on the trade market right now? Their values are never going to be higher
than they are right now as you start looking at their next contracts or am
I wrong? No? No, if you are really seriously rebuilding everybody,
it should be available because like you don't have a corner there is no cornerstone
here. He's not as much as we like Kobe White, like he's not
that guy. Mattas buscellis I that pick looks like it's gonna end up.
Well, we've seen him, Yeah, No, like that pick, but
he's all right. The level of uncertain do we have about him is off
the charts, and he's clearly the guy you'd say like, okay, that
is the rebuilding piece that makes sense, Like they're just not there yet.
So every single player on the roster, I guess, excluding him, should
be viewed as like what's he worth in a trade as opposed to like,
what's he going to give us this year? As we you know, win
thirty whatever games? Let's move to Cleveland. So we got to talk about
the core four, because man, we've had some conversations about them over the
last year plus. I'm gonna sort of truncate the question, should we believe
in Darius Garland, Donovan Mitchell, Evan Mobley, Jared Allen figuring it out,
I'm going to say yes, and a lot of this just this is
what I can't wrap my head around. Their first year together, the Cavs
have a one to twenty two offensive rating. Basically when you have Garland,
Mitchell, and Mobley playing in lineups beside Jared Allen and so like that's like,
that's just a massive difference from what we saw last year when they didn't
really play a ton together because of injuries, and we saw that that offensive
rating ended up dipping and the fact that they fared actually you know, so
they were one twenty two when Jared Allen was off the court. I apologize
last year, and that's something that becomes difficult. But when you start gaming
it with well, if Jared is the sole big I think that we've my
point being, I feel like we've leaned too far into thinking that this can't
work because of what happened last year, where there was a ton of stop
and start availability from all of their core. For I mean, Jared Allen
held out as long as he could, but then he ends up being banged
up by the end of the playoffs, and so he's the one that gets
criticized for being soft and not fighting through injuries, right, and so their
offensive rating with him, by the way, but all four of these guys
in their first season together one twenty one. So I was off by a
point with that that I understand. It fell part in the playoffs, but
like Mobley's not the same player he was. He's taken above the break threes.
Now small volume took them hit them towards the end of the regular season.
Can he up that volume, become more reliable there, continue to adjust
against physicality. Do I think this is a perfectly complimentary big four? I
would say no, because in the end, it does feel like every single
one of them has to make material concessions or adjustments to how they would play.
Maybe not so much Donovan Mitchell because he's just central everything. But I'm
gonna choose to believe in them, and I don't. They haven't done anything
this off season, by the way that would make they haven't. They haven't
added a new player, Like there's just aside from the draft obviously, like
Isaac Korro is still floating around out there as we record this. I still
just believe that the floor spacing because of where Mobley was at in year one
and you didn't have Max Struce, it was just worse in your one,
and yet you had one hundred and twenty one offensive rating with those for on
the court, and there's other noise. It's what do you look like defensively?
When Evan Mobley is the lone big there's always they're rebounding with this team
is just so weird, like during their dual Big Minutes. Still I can't
the town we talked about this might have been on the previous podcast. It
was with the Rozen and the Kings. If if we're gonna trust him,
the Bonus Monk and Fox to figure it out, why are we not trusting
these four to find it out? Right? Because the compl as weird as
it is, the complimentary skills are still are way more like there for this
Cavs group than they are for the Kings. I think the way the way
it kind of breaks down is like, what if Darius Garland just doesn't have
a terrible year last year? Like what if he doesn't get hit in the
face thirty six times by like November? Yeah, what's his per thirty six
minute rate of getting Oh it's off the charts, one hundred percent, hundred
percentile. Like nope, did he get hit in the face more per thirty
six minutes? Or does Evan Mobley take more threes per thirty six minutes?
Oh that's a great the book that mark that went down for Like we revisited
after the year, see how close it is. But right, like if
like if Garland is just you know his two years ago self and Mobiley makes
the strides he made last year, Like, I don't know what the conversation
is right now because maybe the Calves had you know, maybe the Calves were
awesome. It it really, I do you know we've all been labored the
like, well it's two small guards and it's two non spacing bigs. Well
maybe Mobiley is spacing now, and like what if Garland just he's not going
to help you defensively he's too small, but like what if he has his
you know, all star level season, Like I just I so I agree.
I don't know if we like should believe this is definitely gonna work,
but for sure, like they need a chance, they need another full year.
You don't, you don't break this up. You still gotta find that
fifth guy, like for the you know, third year in a row.
I guess I found him, did you. It's Dorian Phinney Smith. This
is the Dorian Phinney Smith team. Like you got some you have the wriggle
room to where you can still aggregate salaries and it's like just get there and
don't let the hang up be like, oh, do we really want to
give up Jaalen Tyson for yes, you do like Jaleen Tyson plus salary,
maybe some seconds are included. That just feels like the an everyone has Philly
circle for the middle of the year. This is the Dorian Phinney Smith team
for me. He works whether you're playing two bigs or whether you're playing one
big. I think that's the answer. Just Moses Moody fits in perfectly.
Trade for him again, we want to by the way us saying to keep
them together. If people want to talk about how we contradict ourselves, go
back to that podcast after they were eliminated from the playoffs and the athletic drops
that pre written post mortem and Grant and I were we were. I still
will ether the case for the way they traded. Jared Allen in that piece
discussing but yeah, I'm also on record a million times this same well,
you probably gave me an over under of like one point five of the big
of the core four being gone. I was like, over hard over.
There's no way to Donovan Mitchel's back. He talked about this though, but
there's kind of been much ado over Evan Mobley getting the the Max with the
potential for it to go to the Supermax. I'm just Brian. We say
this on that Brian Winhorse calls this the fun Max. It's what you have
to bet on unfinished products. And I think that we I will say,
we're what the kas are asking Mobile to do, and this is what we
might have gotten right. Remember the initial podcast where we called the Jared Allen
contract a disaster for Cleveland. I think the part of that we got right
was we were worried about whether that would infringe upon Evan Mobley's growth as an
offensive player. That's still something to factor in it, but the fact that
he's this good already in i'll say less than ideal offensive circumstances most of the
time, I just don't. I can't bring myself to have a problem with
that. You could, now you made the case of why give it to
him now? Why not make them wait? I think that's fair if you
thought you were gonna save money. But this isn't a team that was gonna
have cap space next right. They it's more defensible for them than Houston,
who we talked about on the last pot because they don't gain is cap holds
enormous. They don't. They don't. It's not like all this opens up
flexibility to do whatever they just that's not the case. So you have,
well I have to give to you the Detroit Pistons. Uh, what do
I want to go with? All right? Okay, I have to ask
this grant, which of their five main prospects is most likely to get lost
in the shuffle next season. You're in this weird spot where they just have
five guys that they are according to their draft position. They are heavily invested
in Kate Cunningham, who they already gave the MAX extension to also didn't have
a problem with that, Jade and Ivy, Jalen Duran, Ron Holland,
and Asar Thompson. But you're also in a unique position where four of those
guys were drafted before the current front office was put in place, and so
we could get into whether you think they have enough spacing around Kate. Now,
in general, I would argue the answers, yes, The problem is
none of that spacing comes from the other four most important prospects on the team.
Right. So to me, it's it's pretty clearly Ivy, And part
of that's because it's sort of already happened before, where you know, where
even before Ron Holland shows up, Ivy was like, I don't know what
does he what does he really do for this team? Like he's got to
be on the ball, but like Kate Cunningham's on the ball, Like this
is Kate Cunningham's team, Like so that's you know, plenty of teams have
a secondary offensive initiator that is an if he shooter and you don't love his
decision making and his def like Ivy could work, but it's like we've already
seen Ivy with less surrounding young talent than they will have this year. Kind
of like actually, maybe Killian Hayes has gone, so Ivy's just gonna play
plenty, But like it has to be him because I think Thompson you just
play him for the defense and hope he figures anything else out at all.
Holland, I think you you just would have to view his ceiling as higher
than Ivy based on Ivy's first couple of years. So I think it's fairly
clearly Ivy for me. Do you do you have another candidate that you think
might get squeezed. I'm wondering if it is going to be a SR.
Thompson or Ron Holland, just because there's so much overlap there with the concerns
that they bring. But I think it's I mean, when you're looking at
Jay and Ivy, I mean, this is kind of speaking of contradicting ourselves.
This feels like, should he just come off the bench? Does that
make the most sense for this team because you're able to kind of split up
your spacing, then that way between the starting five and some of the bench
units gives him more opportunities on the ball. But we just said you have
to start Scoot Henderson in Portland, and now we're gonna sit here and be
like, I do think it's different. Is Ky Cunningham is already that primary
guy in Detroit, and Ivy's had a longer stretch to sort of show what
he does or doesn't have. I don't know how fair that is just given
the situation, but Scoot's got one brutal year, Ivy's got a couple that
probably weren't quite as bad, definitely weren't quite as bad as Scoot was,
but not great. I just I feel like, and this is true for
any of these guys, but maybe more so for Ivy because we're getting we're
far in in now where if he gets relegated to bench duties, it's kind
of like when we see a guy fall from a higher salary range to like
a minimum salary, it's so hard to recover. It's like if you if
you get sent to the bench now at this stage of your career for IVY,
it's like, is that just what you are? Like Chris Dunn went
down that road like super highly touted the same kind of similar thing. It's
hard to get back and so it would feel like a big concession from the
Pistons. And having said that, I still think he's just clearly the guy
that makes more sense to bring off the bench. So and it doesn't help
that, it doesn't help that it'd be a different like they're not demoting or
bring him off the bench to favor Killian Hayes. They're like, he comes
off the bench when he's sixteen games off the bench, whatever it was last
year. It's we're doing this to better balance the team. It actually increase
your opportunity, and there's more coherence behind it because again, like you're not
he's not making a sacrifice based off these the other if you really wanted to
game it out well, I want to phrase this way, who is And
it's obviously Kate is the answer. So aside from Kate, of the remains
for who is, like immediately the most important that you're looking at, like
they're gonna be the ones that are central to the closing units. They're gonna
give them real opportunity next season. I'll give you my answer. I think
it's just having to sample size with the star Thompson. I think it's him,
but I also just like the front office drafted Ron Holland. Yeah,
so is it just him? I think on the theory that I was gonna
say Holland. I love Thompson so much, though, I just think just
that that defensive potential is so rare. But Holland, I've well to be
fair. Ever since Wass said Holland was his top guy, I'm just like,
well, he knows more than I do, so I'm on board.
Like, I just believe he could be the best player on this team,
you know, eventually. I don't know how realistic that is. The front
office picked Ron Holland, the front office did not pick anybody else here,
So I think he's your guy, right, Like that's just how it works.
Who's next up? I got the pacers for you. This is a
question I personally have, So I'm gonna throw it to you and you can
solve it for me. What is the plan for Jaris Walker? What's going?
What are we doing? Uh? I don't can I I'm gonna answer
your question with another question. Do we think that they have a plan for
Jackson? Well, the plan seems to be like, let's really make it
hard for him to prove that he's worthy of building a plan around, and
part of that's him, Like he just wasn't any good, but he got
just garbage time minutes last year, you bring Topping back, You've got Siakham
Turner obviously is there. Nie Smith kind of works as a four sometimes too.
So it's just like at this point Walker has to play extremely well to
justifive minutes, especially since this team is good. I don't know how he's
set up to do that, and if he does, then you've paid Topping,
you know, to be your third or fourth big guy. Like I
just yeah, I didn't evention Isaiah Jackson. Like the front court's fairly you
know, congested, especially if you have some guys play up like Nie Smith.
So I just I don't know what the plan is. The plan maybe
is like prove it, which is kind of a rough way to go.
And I don't know that. I didn't dig too much into Summer League just
yet, but like seems like he played well and then moments from Johnny Furfy
just another name that could be sprinkled into this mix. It feels like the
plan is that they're gonna develop him as more of like a wing defensive type
player, but I just don't know if that's gonna translate offensively. And after
resigning Obi Top into a deal that I don't think a ton of teams are
gonna be hot to trade for, you've almost locked yourself into that scenario,
and I would argue by doing so, unless you're prepared to just decide that
Andrew Nemhart extension eligible right now, I think it could be four seventy eight
whatever it ends up being, with the average general salary that they can extend
him off of if you decide like he's not like because if you decide that
that's what you're gonna do with Jars Walker, well then there's a trickle down
effective Well, what does that mean for Benedict Mathrin Because of right now,
it's kind of harder to like, you could Hume as well. He's like
just a here too. It's like, well that's gonna if you like nem
Hard and Haliburton and you want to see those minutes together, that gets a
little bit iffy, Like you have Ben Shepherd sitting here as well. There's
it feels like, and this is stupid to say in theory, because they
don't play the same position, they should actually be separated by even more positions
than they are. Right now, Bennick mather and Jaris Walker are not both
going to be integral to this team. Like it's you're almost choosing between one
or the other because of the ripple effects it has on the way that you
flesh out the rest of your rotation and that so maybe this is really a
question about Bennanick Mathern but it does seem and I don't necessarily know why when
you look at the makeup of this team that they still feel more invested in
Bennic Mathren than they do Jarris Walker. And is that and that's Benicmatherick wind
up being a very good NBA player show flashes last year, even on the
defensive end. But that just when you look at the setup of this roster,
I don't understand that when you look at what they're and so. But
you could also say, well, they have Pascal Siakam, and that's someone
who plays, which should be jaris Walker's best position. They don't have that
in theory. With running to that issue with Mathurn, So I go back
and forth here. I don't My answer here and it's incomplete is I don't
think that they have a plan for just I honestly don't believe that they have
a plan in place for him. Yeah, I think it's dangerous to operate
that way. I do think there is some merit to just sort of letting
the who deserves to play sort itself out. It's just Walker is not so
far has not gotten in. It's hard to imagine him getting like a fair
fare is the wrong word, but like enough opportunities to prove like, oh
no, I do need to get twenty minutes, like it's just and then
it's at who's expense. I like the idea of letting it be a little
bit of a meritocracy. But if that's how it goes, like he's just
behind right, Like he's not as good as Siakam, Like even at this
stage, top End gives you more and the Nie Smith I think is probably
just an objectively better player, even if he's out of position over Walker.
So like I just I don't I don't know what the plan is either.
It would be nice if Walker was showing enough sustained flashes to where it like
what we gotta we just got to find a way to plan. But that
that really hasn't happened yet. What is the what is the cleanest pathway to
getting him regular playing time? Is it deciding to go more Sakham at the
five or is it like, can you get away with a top and and
Walker front court and at that point, oh Siakam turner, or can you
play Siakham with an Obi Toppin and Jaris Walker front court in higher volume?
It's I don't understand, because the cleanest path to me in a vacuum would
be you give Seakham at five minutes and then you're playing Garis Walker. But
then it's kind of well, what was the point of keeping Obi toppin?
So that was exactly my question. Like the top End contract is so interesting
because like he did help, uh, he fits their style, as if
everybody drink asset preservation like you, You couldn't you didn't have the resources to
go sign someone for the money you gave top in and free agency, so
you just bring it. Well, maybe you could have, but like,
would you have preferred this isn't it's not a perfect down. Would you have
preferred to use because they could still could, but we know they're not going
to beat this tax team. Would you prefer to use the non taxpayer mid
level on an outside player? Maybe it's a Derek Jones, maybe it's Anaji
Marshall. Just you know what the names are out there? Or gone this
route and preserved the asset? That's the number? The contract number? Was
it four for eighty? I also want to know who is won't know why
he couldn't just get mid level money? But what is that? I know
this is base, it's a round mid level money, but who was the
team that was prepared to give him an average annual value of fifteen million?
Well, I yeah, I wrote something last week I think just about how
like it's just a weird you can defend the top end retention and you also
sort of can't. I just I sort of understand it. To answer the
original question, like the way you give Walker opportunities is to not have brought
Obi topping back. It's just so then there's just a rotation spot in theory
that's there. But if you're talking about who's actually here, the only way
is to have guys that are four is like Siakam or even Top in its
center would just that would not work. But like you just got to move
guys up and then you're taking Turner off the floor. I don't love that,
Like you're you're minimizing Isaiah Jackson's minutes. I kind of like Isaiah Jackson
as the second unit center. So it is a little bit of a positional
glut. I isn't maybe the simplest solution, like they're just gonna trade Walker
and or Matherin for guys that help them now because they're good now, when
yeah, I was just I don't know who that It's it's interesting because they're
still so and I think in Walker specifically probably still as the mystique of you're
not going to trade Jaris Walker for a Dory Andfinny Smith. They're not going
to be involved in and it's so you have to aim higher end also fit
that into your salary structure, and you're not gonna give up any I wouldn't
think they're going to be prepared to give up more draft picks at this point,
just after going. But they didn't give up a ton of good draft
picks for Siaka. But they gave up draft picks, and so it's just
not the Pacers at Mota continue doubling down. This is all to say,
I think the Pacers wind up being better this season than they were last season.
I just the Walker and mather in of it all is fascinating to me.
Yeah, little little logjammy at a couple of positions, do I have?
Is it my turn for you? Do I ask you a questions?
All right? So we're on the Miami Heat? Oh wait no, because
I it's my turn to give you the Miami Heat. I apologize. Okay,
Well, it seems like you had a question in mind, but I'm
assuming it was the Jimmy Butler one or did I guess wrong? I hadn't
formed a thought, So you're still free to ask uh whatever you want?
Well, I guess, because isn't the the question is what's their pathway to
being a lot better than they were last season, and that's after losing Kayler
Marten. Is it just well, Tyler Hero and Jimmy Butler are healthier,
and Terry Rozier goes through a training camp and is healthier. So that almost
feels like a lack of LOK like, isn't that is the pathway to them
being better than last season? Right? And so you get growth from Hamai
Hawkes, hopefully Jovich will be healthy dealing with that injury that's keeping them out
of the Olympics. And so I'm asking you, does the absence of a
Jimmy Butler extension matter in the grand scheme in terms of like how they get
better? Okay, yeah, all right? Does matter? I don't.
I mean, what's the case that it does? I guess I don't think
so, because, like, is there a chance it matters to the extent
of Jimmy Butler plays just like a wild motherfucker to like try and earn that
contract. Right, Well, there's that, or there's Minnesota. Jimmy re
emerges and he's pissed off all the time, and you know, but it
doesn't it doesn't seem like it's going that way. I like, I like
to take that like we're gonna get a motivated Jimmy Butler that does not just
you know, sit in third year for the full regular season. That would
be nice. Can't can he physically do that at this stage of his career.
I don't know. I'm interested to see him try. I guess it
doesn't matter because like why why what would be better if they had given Butler
that extension? Just like you're just satisfied, so it wouldn't so short that
it's just like, Okay, you're tacking on an extra guaranteed year specifically to
it. There's just quarity in that, and now it's okay contract you're Jimmy
Butler might be a boon for your team, But is this also someone who
if you don't if he doesn't agitate for out, but you're also not necessarily
willing to pay him his max to you opt out, do you lose him
for nothing? Because there will be teams with the cap space that look people
talk themselves into Paul George. I know that Jimmy Butler at that point when
he's going into free agency, he'll be entering his age thirty six season,
so it's it's a little different. But I think that there would be clarification
of are what we have, Like we don't have to deal with this Jimmy
Butler issue. And I understand why they didn't do it. I'm not saying
they should have, but it is just like it feels like an unnecessary wrinkle
for a team that already has so many question marks. I'd argue more so
still at the offensive end. And then just of everyone continues to mention them
as well, like when there's a star available or a really good player,
they'll be involved. But aside from just like having called and being rejected,
what is there an an involvement level going to be We mentioned Larry Market and
when we were talking about Uta on the other podcast. When you look at
the number of picks they CoA trade, unless you start including jim Hawks and
trade packages, you're not going to be in a position I would argue that
your offers even gonna be on par with what other teams are offering, let
alone beat them right. I mean, Hero staying healthy and playing really well
might change it. Because there was a time where it's like, oh,
Hero is a trade asset, and that time has passed. It's so like,
yeah, they don't really have a lot of guys that you look at
as these are some clear teams. Every team covets this guy like they don't
they don't really have. I guess Hoke has probably comes closest to that,
but I would think I think he would be there. They might be,
well, he's a little older for someone going to his sophomore year or whatever.
Yea, what is I mean this might have been the better question when
you look at this roster. Now, what is your to your estimation,
their biggest need, because I think there's like five or six that you right,
Yeah, it's like you're gonna start to start trying to vamp to like
figure out I I mean historically, I don't know why this would be any
different, but it's just like can they score enough? It's just and know,
maybe that's alleviated by Hero the defense right that they've always had that where
it's like you could get offensive lineups out there if you play Kevin Love and
Tyler Hero and Duncan Robinson and whatever. But you're just gonna get they don't
have enough two way guys. But that's true for everybody. I just would
fixate on when the heat have been out of balance, like for their overall,
like full season offensive and defensive ratings, it typically tends to be like
they just they're not scoring enough, and then they get to the playoffs and
Jimmy Butler handles that when he's right, and it's all okay. But if
you're just talking about the regular season, like where where is the consistent rotation
or a lineup that's getting you to eighth in offense or whatever to make your
top ten defense, you know, actually count for something I don't I don't
see I don't see it here. Maybe Hero takes a leap, I don't
know's it's not. There's no case to have a like who is the third
most important player on this team next season? It's him? And there's not
really competition, right, Like you would have to make the case why is
it Hakes or Yovic or Rosier? Why is why is it them over Hero?
And it's it's all almost like that weird Julius Randall disconnect where he's more
valuable to the Knicks than probably any other team in the NBA, just like
and I feel like heroes kind of the people made fun of the Heat for
the way that they valued Hero, but you look at the structure of their
team, and it's I get it. M Yeah, No, I think
that's right. He's that's a mark that down like every team's guy that is
way more valuable to them than he is to anybody else. You told me,
I don't know what you told me to mark that down, and I
just hit the time stamp button. Have no idea what that's an accomplished like
a knee jerk reaction by you. It's like market. I got a market,
he said, market, and I hit the button that will make a
time stamp for me. I got the bucks for you one to choose from
here, and we got to talk about it. Uh, how concerning is
Chris Middleton's uh not one but two got the two for one special on his
on ankle surgeries? And relatedly, do they have enough shock creation if he's
gonna miss time, which it's like, even if you fully covers at this
point, based on his recent track record, you got to assume he's gonna
at least have minutes limits as opposed to even if he doesn't miss games.
As a fan of using promotional codes, I fave him going to buy one
get one route on his ankle surgery, and I think that that shows a
level of decision making, an IQ that basically guarantees the bucks of title veteran
veteran savvy. So yeah, it's concerning. And to think like do they
have enough shot creation, I think you have to look at it from the
outside d level, where it's okay, Yiannis has that still has that gear
to hit where just purely downhill and erases everybody from existence. But in terms
of a more methodical shot creator, there is Damian Millard, There's Chris Middleton,
and that's it. And so if you don't have Middleton, and I
think what's really concerning is there's been this trend of he gets hurt, the
ramp up is slow, and he really like maxes out in time for them
to get bounced in the first round of the playoffs. It's just how it's
unfolds. And they've always they've always had injuries as the caveats there. I
I think it's good that hopefully this is happening early enough in the offseason that
okay, by Christmas, if he's able to piece together some consistent playing time.
And also is your level of dependence on him in general defensively lower this
season because you've added the lon right, even just having Gary Trent Junior,
having Torrian Prince there, who is not as good as Dalton connect as we
all know, but you still have Torrian Prince there. Anyone who listened to
the Western Conference pod, we'll get that reference shout out to you. So
but it's concerning because like you don't have the Bucks had a really great offseason,
they have no tools. They end up with three guys who will be
a part of their rotation. Do you think any of the youngsters like well,
Andre Jackson kind of cracked the I don't know, like that'd be someone
that I'd be interested in seeing more of this year. But we know how
Doc Rivers is generally with young guys, and that includes a marj On Bochamp.
Is there a move that they can actually make to where it's Pat Connaton
plus second round stuff for something, or do you look at moving Bobby Portis
when you know Brook Lopez is old and speeding towards free agency. This is
all to say, if I had to do a scale of one to ten
on my level of concern for the Chris Middleton injury, I'm going to seven,
and I think the big thing that's making me feel relatively okay, even
though a seven seems pretty high. Damian Millard's getting older. Damian Millard's also
going to be better. The off court transition will be easier. I look
at what he shot on a catch and shoot three pointers last year. I
think it was sub thirty three percent. That's not gonna happen again. Like
death number is going way up. And then just the extra year going through
a training camp with Doc and Giannis together and knowing that, okay, this
coach should be here past November December probably helps. I just expect them to
get better. They're a little deeper. Are they athletic enough? Absolutely not.
Do they have enough shot creation if Chris Middleton or Damian Lillard gets hurt?
Absolutely not. But when you're at this level two short of being the
Boston Celtics or the Oklahoma City Thunder, you go through every team and there's
that one or two players where well they're hurt, were fucked, and you
could argue the Bucks have had more writing on the wall when it comes to
Chris Middleton's health teams. I still think the alternative was what right? No?
I was just looking through there. I kind of love their top eight.
I mean even top nine. If you think Prince can give you anything,
it's just so fragile. I think that's that's where the trepidation comes in,
is like can Lopez really keep doing this? Middleton's already having issues,
Dame is getting up there, Giannis, maybe he's getting to the phase of
his career where he's gonna miss a chunk every year. But just like having
right and content and portis as you know, six seven eight, maybe like
that's that's a real rotation like that, you know, not a revelation,
but like they're so it makes it hard to evaluate them like fairly with respect
to injuries, because you don't want to just say, well, every this
team's great if healthy. But it's like it's not the same for them,
just because they do feel, you know, extremely vulnerable at a lot of
key positions. And and then like then if you have to like tweak the
rotation to have your ninth tenth guys playing more, the drop off is like
real big and that becomes a big problem. And by the way, the
thing, I can't unless you think that they're all gonna be worse. They
dealt with an imperfect circumstances. Last year, the Bucks were a plus sixteen
point three per one hundred when Middleton, Dame and Giannis played together last season,
a differential that actually improved when Brook Lopez was off the court. And
so it's I there's a level of concern, but this team. We talked
about the Grizzlies kind of being the forgotten team in the West, this feels
like the forgotten powerhouse in the Eastern Conference, and they're just as many red
flags or concerns. But you know, I still feel pretty confident my Honestly,
I want to spend more time thinking like, do we see Giannis at
center more this year? Because yeah, you have Lopez and Porters for now,
but with the additions of some of these perimeter guys, a lot of
their non Lopez minutes seemed like they would be more intriguing if you skew smaller,
and I think you're just maybe getting to the point in his career where
it's it's like that just makes more sense to have him, especially Middleton limited
or injured, would make more like Jonnis is more of a mismatch as a
shot creator maker at the five than he is at the four, right for
sure, And I think defensively too, if he's got to move around a
little bit less. Like I know they do play him. They kind of
spare him and have him rove a little bit. But if he's just like,
your job is guard the pick and roll now, like, just get
into drop coverage and belong. Gary Tran Junior is not gonna do it.
No one's gotta Nope. Gary Tran Junior is getting a steel or nothing.
That's you speak of roaming Gary Trang Junior. When he's not the roamer,
he's gonna be the wrong. He's Roman. You can't turn roming off on
that guy. I have the we're up to the knicks here for you?
Oh you're asking me a nick question? What do we do wrong? Uh?
We've we alternated. So I'm gonna ask this question even though I think
these other two might be more important where it's Will Julius Randall get extended?
Will he be traded? Can they acquire another big after losing Isaiah Hartenstein.
I'm gonna ask you this question, though, will head coach Tom Thibodeau,
who will probably be extended by the end of this offseason, lean on Julius
Randall at the five now that they have and by that I mean, it's
during the non Mitchell Robinson minutes rather than going to a Jericho Sims. And
the way you rationalize it, if you're someone who knows what Tim's likes to
see from his fives, Julius Randall is your five on offense and Og becomes
your five on the defensive. I was I was just gonna say, like,
well, I think it's more likely that Og is actually gonna see center
minutes. No. I so, but that doesn't that ducks the question?
Is he really got it so antithetical to what he wants to do, right,
Like he just Thibodeau wants a big. He wants like a brim protecting,
rebounding, just a big, like that's what he prefers, right Like,
I just it would be a huge departure. But looking at the roster,
if it's if it's me, I see Jericho Sims, and then I
have that as option a I guess, or Randall n Og like tag teaming
center on either end, Like I think you gotta go with those two.
I just I don't think Jericho Sims is given you enough. And it's not
like Jericho Simms is like this hulking you know, Mitchell Robbinson size guy either,
so you're probably giving away size anyway, so you might as well have
that size be really highly skilled. So I will wishfully think that Thibodeau will
go that route. But if you know, if they sign, if they
get Bismack Biambo or like the the equivalent, just some scrappy actual center,
then like Thibodau might not be able to resist it. I've seen some people
specially like could they do a Miles McBride for Nick Richards type trade? And
I just I might be too high on Miles McBride, but it's like,
just because you drafted Tyler Collok, you don't get to go trade. What
if Steph Curry could win Defensive Player of the Year, you don't have a
license to do that. So I'm with you, and I think that the
best way to even view it would be do it during the non Brunson minutes,
so cater to the defense more where it's maybe so with with og and
Randall, you're also playing Hart and McHale bridges, and then maybe that's the
Deuce McBride minutes, or maybe you put Dante d Vincenzo and say Loo Julius
rails is gonna run the entire offense for us anyway, So now we're kind
of all right, we're giving up size at the five, but we're still
really big everywhere else. So I hope they do that. I think it's
more likely that they end up acquiring a big that leap frogs Jericho Sims and
their rotation, and then by extension, leap frogs the Julius Randall Ogiannobi fron
Cour. That's my gut feeling. But and I also don't know how to
square away because I think I know oj didn't take a discount, but Jalen
Brunson set an interesting precedent of taking less if you want to win it down
to the three year pay cut, he still gave up. I've called it
a Dante DiVincenzo a year over the next three seasons, and that sets an
interesting present for when McHale Bridges goes into extension talks, which, to correct
our, I did not realize this, but because he has multiple years left
on his contract, he's not eligible for that bigger extension in six months.
You'll have to wait until the offseason to do it. They could only extend
him for one hundred and five percent this season. If he signed one hundred
and five percent extension, that's just like the mcale bridges trade was a win.
They didn't give up too much that there will be an investigation if he
signs one hundred and five Right, there might be an investigation anyway when you
look at the level of the number of Villanova players here. But with Randall,
it's the extension talks are part of this too, right, it's the
Jalhn Brunson set, because there's no earthly reason to pay Julius Randall, mckel
Bridges or even oj it'll be more than Jalen Brunson. He's your best player,
you're guiding for us, and I want do you think, cause I
think it's part of this question. Do you think the Brunton extension increases the
likelihood or decreases the likelihood that the Knicks keep Julius or even say that Julius
Randall signs an extension. I don't know how it decreases it just well,
because it's like they don't want to pay him a lot more than Jalen Brunton.
He's not willing to take a discount, and so he doesn't sign an
extension and that's where you're at. Yeah, but we have to bring back
the other point about how Randall, Like I don't know that there's going to
be open market offers for Randall that are so crazy, Like it might be
possible between Brunston taking lesson setting a precedent and the market for Randal being like
not exactly super hot where you can almost like organically is the wrong word,
but it's sort of like, oh, it just makes sense that you're gonna
come back now with Brunson setting the tone for less than maybe we otherwise would
have had to pay you. I don't know, it's it is, I'm
am I ever gonna get over? Like the do really did they need Julius?
Like is he really like the fit here? But I do think he
is the second unit stuff. If you can really work the rotation where he
and og do play the four and the five when Brunson's off, you're a
really different team than you are with the starters. But like, man that
could work that just space it all out and like he really could be like
he could thrive in that role. I just don't know how much Randall belongs
in their best lineups. Too far Field, I would counter that by saying
I think he matters today more than he did at the end of last season
just because of this shock creation just another guy that they decided to go after,
and that's fine. They is not to go after a player who's a
very good fit, but that does not elevate their ceiling on what was their
biggest need, which was we need a second a better second best shot generator
or fit there. Because Julius Randall still might be imperfect fit. Julius Randall
is still the second best shot creader on this team, and you have no
realistic avenues to me to go out and get someone who's going to be more
valuable in that area. And there's also look, you mentioned their best lineups
if there are any other and this isn't a criticism of Tibbs, who's done
a fantastic job in New York. If it were basically any other coach in
there, I would argue that Julius Randold and og Is their front court,
are their is their most important lineup? With Brunson, Bridges and then Harder
de Vincenzo, I would argue that should end up being their most important I
like Mitchell Robinson, but the injury stuff. The offensive limitations outside of offensive
rebounding is a big deal to me. But because it's Tibbs, I don't
know that you make that case. Yeah, I don't know. They're gonna
be a really interesting team, but more so than a lot just from the
perspective like who's gonna play like and what these lineups gonna look like, because
they got a lot of different ways to go, and I think to your
point, like some of the most interesting ones are just very not Tibsy,
like he just doesn't like to do the things that might actually unlock some different
layers. Would you care to guess how I'm trying to see off like who
should qualify for this? But care to guess? And this is so messed
up because of them. I'm gonna pressures at you out of here, So
give me a second. Would you kinda guess how many minutes or possessions?
Excuse me? Julius Randall and og Ananobi played last season without Mitchell Robinson,
Hartenstein, Jericho Sims or TOADJ. Gibson on the floor. So I'm allowing
pressure s Toachua to if you want me to remove pressures to you, Ah,
do you think pressure to Chua should be included in this, as in
the like filtering him out like without Presciore s Toatchua. I mean, is
he even on the team. No, not right now, but I'm saying
I'm trying to use I'm actually gonna include him because the idea of you're not
gonna play I'm saying, get to Randall, oji's your front quarter or Chua
would not be. So the question is how much did Randal and Og play
the four and the five together without another big they played that another big God,
they didn't even overlap for that many games. I want to give you
an over under. Would that be more fair? Do you have the ability
to tell me how many games they played together? Is that shown up on
what you're filtering. I wouldn't be able to filter it out that way.
And I'll also tell you right now, I'll tell you how many games it
is in just a second, okay, I mean it's it's possessions. I
don't know, like a hundred, it was two. So that one game,
what happened? Did tips fall asleep? If you like forgot that?
I can't do this. And on the floor for that whopping sample was Julius
Randall Ogiananobi, Josh Hart, Quentin Grimes, and Jalen runs in so very
close to the makeup that we want to see. Quentin Grimes, despite what
Stephen A. Smith might say, is no longer on the Knicks. So
yeah, I hope they get to that. I don't know if they will.
I think it's time to move on to the Orlando Magic, though.
All right, let's suit the Orlando Magic. I would like to ask you,
is there any chance they try to land a shot creator or a high
volume three point shooter or dan? Are the Magic done and will draw your
ire for being done? Yeah? I will say they're done until at least
trade deadline talk, which I'm wildly disappointed in. I don't know that I've
ever turned. I think their offseason was fine, But when we were doing
the Bleacher Report live stream during frequency and they signed contamious called the Pope,
I was ready to be like the Magic are coming to be like the second
or third best team in the East. They're gonna go out and trade or
sign somebody that's going to really increase the ceiling of their offense. I would
argue that KCP, while a good fit for this roster, was more along
the lines of just like a small additive because he's gonna be a better three
point shooter than a lot of players that you could have played in his spot.
But he doesn't like, he doesn't really elevate your defense. It's just
like you were already a top to top three defense. Casep like furthers that
dimension of it. He's a he gives you the slightest of offensive upgrades without
compromising your defensive ceiling, rather than this is he really elevates your offensive ceiling.
And so they've decided to be on Suggs and Wagner and Palla Benkaro continuing
to level up on offense, which I think is fine, but to not
kind of have an additional option in the well other than Cole Anthony or is
Anthony Black at any minutes, I'm I think they're done, and I'm disappointed
in it, and like, just free Anthony Simon's hometown kid, Just get
him here, all right? What are we doing? I don't know,
Yeah, I agree, Like, it doesn't even need Simon's first. I
don't know how many fake Simon's trades I made up involving him going to Orlando,
But it doesn't even need to be like a I don't know, someone
who's a bigger offensive upgrade. It was always like, can they get two
guys? Can they get the shooter and then the backup point guard to just
assuming Foals is in back, and they just sort of got halfway, like
and Caldwell Pope feels like just much more underwhelming because he's like he was it,
you know, And I think had it not been that, had it
been him and like, oh, also Tias Jones or also Simon's or also
whatever, then I I think we'd be back on board with like, oh,
here comes Orlando, and maybe they're still gonna just get better organically.
But it is disappointing. I do think I agree that they're done. I
just wish there'd been one other big move. Do you think that they're built
though to kind of just when you look at the contracts they gave out like
even forget Jonathan Isaac on the declining scale, although he is like this huge
salary matching piece now when the trade restriction lifts, but like they almost are
the way they gave out there, like they were still built to make these
moves in the middle of the season. I just don't know. We talked
a lot about the Thunder and even the Spurs getting more information. The Magic
were in the playoffs, and their biggest issue was exactly what we knew.
Their biggest issue was always going or their two biggest issues were exactly what we
knew. Their two biggest issues were always going to be. They needed an
offensive organizer and they needed more shooting. And they proceeded to go through an
offseason with all this flexibility, which will now be the last summer of said
flexibility, because you gave Franz Wagner that MAX extension and they decided we're gonna
incrementally improve our floor spacing. Awesome. Yeah, they feel like an aggregation
trade candidate because they got enough. You know, you get your Gary Harris's
and your Gogo batads like you got you got a bunch of guys that are
helpful but not indispensable that you could cobble together and go get somebody. Maybe
that's the plan. I don't know. It seems unlikely that they did all
this with the intention of trading these guys. But maybe it doesn't have to
be Simon's if you want, like, it could be Collin Sexton. I'd
be super like that is I think that's what bugs me the most, and
I'm sure Magic fans will be annoyed, or some of them will be.
I don't want to pay everybody with broadbrush that we're framing it this way.
It's a maybe it's a backhanded compliment, but it's a compliment that they are
already so good that I don't understand why you didn't make any steps to a
like adequately fill one of your two biggest needs to where like CACP is a
start, but he's not like he can't like just as the one additive.
If that was your loan move, it's again, you still make it,
yeah, but it didn't prevent you from doing anything else. And yet that's
how they like they just went through the off season. They're betting on internal
development, which again, if we were telling them to trade for Trey Young
or even although if they traded for LaMelo Ball, I might pick them to
win the title. I'm not gonna wouldn't it. But like, it's not
like we're telling them to advocate trading for a star when we know the realities
of the Orlando market, even though it probably should be a better destination than
it is. It's like this was a move where no, you're not gutting
assets, like this is a very medium sized moves and there are a bunch
of different ones that you could have made and you have so far not and
that I'm just a little bit disappointed by that. Yeah, and I think
like the improvement from within angle is defensible. But like let's say Anthony Black
becomes someone you can play for twenty five minutes a night or maybe even more
than that, He's still kind of like Markel Fults in a lot of ways.
So it's like you're just you're not your Your growth isn't like huge from
that perspective, assuming Foals isn't back, like you just kind of have a
similar I don't want to sell Black short. I do think he has like
well potential, you know what I mean, Like the organic growth path is
tricky. Where's the offensive upside on this roster? It's bait to me,
I viewed as just like you're looking at Sugs and Wagner and Palo Bancaro,
who could all be closer to finished products offensively than not. That's not an
insult. They're already really good. But you're betting like that, Like it's
not coming from any unless you just think, like Jed Howard is gonna come
in and actually play this year, and that's really going to open up the
floor for drives for Wagner and Polo and Jail and Suggs. Yeah. No,
And I think we should leave Orlando here by saying like we both think
they're really the Magic are gonna be really good. It's just they're gonna be
similar. Yeah. I mean when you look at there's the Sixers, the
Knicks, the Bucks, and the Celtics when you're assuming pretty good health,
those are my top four in the East, and then it's like Orlando's either
And it wouldn't shock me if you said Orlando was better than the Knicks or
the Sixers the Bucks. Yeah, sure, I'll believe it. They're there
with like Cleveland and maybe a couple other teams as just like I don't know,
they could if some goes sideways for those top four, they could hop
right in there. That's that's Cleveland's been that good. Cleveland. Might I
meet leaving all Clevelands actually kind of egregious from that time. No, we
don't know, though, you know, they you could have the same issues.
We're not sure with them. They belong. They belong in the Orlando
here, I think with with a similar upside, it's just you know,
there, it's just disappointing they. I thought Orlando was just positioned to get
much better, and maybe they will if they do something before the deadline.
But as no, not so much. I'm gonna call an audible here on
our Sixers question, I have a couple to choose from. Well, I
think the one I was most interested in, well, actually I thought I
was interested was like, what's their closing line up going to look like?
Or who do they target with that kJ Martin salary slot. I still think
they should have paid him a little bit more. But that's besides the point,
Grant, because we talked about this already. Should they should the Sixers
be concerned about Joel Embiid's play with Team USA. How could you not be
like I, Well, he had that one block against trum Yeah, he
had a great, the phenomenal block. He almost got off the ground to
pin the ball to the backboard, almost made it. He did dunk once
after missing a passing up or not being able to get any lift for like
probably four or five other opportunities. You have to be concerned. I know.
So like if you're not, if you're trying not to be alarmist,
you say, like coming off injury in the season, that's always true,
is what I would respond to. Uh, he you know, it's hard
for him to ramp up because he's not getting normal practice or normal minutes to
get into shape. Like with him specifically, when he looks this way,
it's always cause for concern because it's it means like either he can't recover,
like he's not getting healthy enough to get into actual shape to get any kind
of lift or like quickness back, or it means like he's hurt again,
and so we're gonna go down this road of like, oh now we have
a reab process or whatever. It seems like the first one where it's just
like he's not in shape, like he's not moving well at all. I'm
concerned that that just becomes more of the norm because he can't condition himself in
the way is necessary to get back into like peak shape. Having said that
the guy was gonna win MVP till he got hurt. So and this is
just last year, I just can't watch what I've watched. We've watched all
these games basically together, Like you're seeing the same thing. Everybody's bringing it
up, Like he looks terrible relative to like what you expect to see from
him. And I don't know how if you're the sixers who have done everything
possible to strip the roster down and build a contender, like, I don't
know how you feel good about what you're seeing, Like there's there's nothing redeeming,
I don't think other than the fact he's physically upright and on the floor.
Like that's it, that's the only positive? Is there something too?
Though? Like he's always kind of had this more gradual ramp up for I
mean, he came back after missing a ton of time this past year,
and if I mean he still didn't look right a lot of the times in
the playoffs, but he's always kind of had this slow ramp up, And
so could this just be par for the course? And because it's in this
different setting where it feels like he should be dominating and is not that we're
reading too much into it. That's my I agree with pretty much everything you
said. I'm just trying to actually provide a devil's advocate argument that holds water
aside from you can't be like, well, you know he's coming off He's
come off injuries before, Like yeah, right, Like that's I don't know
how much of that as a bright spot, but the ramp up from those
injuries has never been necessarily instantaneous. That is definitely true. I just want
to make sure he's thirty. At what point do we stop with the like,
well, it's just get pat This is an age where the accumulation of
injuries start to take some irreversible tolls. And I would be really concerned that,
Like we're in the middle of the off season. Other guys are like
busting their asses to get in the best shape of their lives before they put
up the Instagram post confirming as much. And he looks like this and he's
actually like on a team practicing, Like I'm being totally like, I'm catastrophizing,
But I was just like I would feel so nervous watching this if I
were the Sixers. Have you had any issue? Just like, so,
I'm thirty five years old, and the way up frame was like Joel BEA's
thirty, Like it's time to start facing reality. Do you ever feel like
a giant hypocrite phrasing things that way? No, because I've in through that
age, and I actually if your career was cut short for this exact reason,
and if I could feel physically like I felt at thirty, Like I
don't want to scare you too much, but like, man, it's different,
like I's like so, so when someone is thirty and is starting to
look broken down, I am concerned, especially if it's someone that has every
resource on planet Earth to be in optimal shape and has like a whole team
of people both within the team and on his own side whose job it is
to do that, and like this is what's going on. I uh so,
I know I don't feel super hypocritical about that. Is there anything too
though? Okay, now that you have Maxie and Paul George, the lift
for him offensively shouldn't be as large or is it? So that is a
good thing, But then it's also okay, well what does that mean for
your defense? Right? And then also two Joe means kind of wired in
a way on offense where he's not like the pick just strictly pick and popper
hitting trail threes. If he's not a central focus. Yeah, that's not
necessarily a good thing for yim or your Team I I agree. I mean
you say that's one of the things with Team USA is the ball gets to
him and he goes into his elbow like package of fakes and and like that
kind of stuff. The ball stops a little bit and if he's you know,
that's not like that's not support not that he's ever going to be a
supporting piece, but that's not like a guy that's super valuable because other players
are taking the load off, like you need he needs to be the central
piece of that offense, like or it's just the ceiling is not as high.
So I have the raptors for you. Let's see us and starting,
closing and the rebill like I'm really should Uh, let's talk lineups. Who's
the starting and closing? Uh three or the two? I guess if you
want to figure out what RJ. Barrett is on the fly. So I
think when it comes to starters, there are four locks. When you look
at Pearle, uh, Scottie Barnes, Emmanuel Quickly and RJ. Barrett.
And if I was to I almost look at these as two separate units because
I don't would you say this might be the first issue to tackle. Do
you think y'all Pearl is a lock as a closing unit member. Well,
I mean, like, if you don't use him, it's just what is
Barnes at the five or your This is both Kelly Olinic and Chris Bouchet erasure
right, I just wanted to tee you up to mention Chris Bouchet in an
outrageous way, So thanks for that. But like I mean, I guess
Purdle is, well, he's closing five definitely starting obviously, but I can
imagine them wanting to shrink the lineup a little bit and see if Barnes gives
you advantages or a Linu gives you the spacing, or Bouchet gives you the
spacing. Uh, I don't know. It does feel like it's Peardle though
to me, do you disagree with that? I if we had to look
at like who plays the most minuted in crunch time, I think it's just
Yaku Peurdle by virtue of him doing the conventional big man stuff and there I
think they'll believe they need that element, and they very well could. So
this would to say, then there's like four locks as part of their star
and closing unit. I guess if you had to pick though, of the
four locks, who are they most likely to kind of fus and fiddle with
the answer is probably are j Barrett still right, it's not a manual.
We know it's not Barnes. Yeah, it's not Barnes and Quickly by default,
so that has to leave a Barrett. I think I'll say it's Pearl.
That's still gonna be my pick because I think that the way Barrett plays
for them more so than Barrett for sure. Yeah, but those are the
two where it feels so it feels like there's really just there's those two,
like Emmanuel Quickly and Scotty Barnes will be in every single most important lineup for
Toronto. But rounding out the starting five, I'm curious which name you would
go with starting closing whatever. So I think your options realistically are Grady Dick,
Bruce Brown, ochaak Baji, and if you wanted to put Jakobe Walter
in here, just because what are the raptors if they're rebuilding, that might
be a look I'm starting as of right now, especially if I'm having Pearl
in my closing five, it's Grady Dick for me. I need that spacing
you could worry about his defense, but I think someone he has the size
and at least can be in the right position. Whether what happens once players
get to the positions that he's in is a different story. But I don't
think he's gonna wind up being this massive defensive liability. Also don't think relative
to being a rookie that he was necessarily that last year, and so give
me. We saw more from him as a knockdown shooter and all these different
situations. As the year went on, we saw that he could attack some
closeouts or in space, dribble into some pull ups. I like that.
I think Bruce Brown is the higher IQ player. He's certainly the better defender.
I think that it might be fair to say if Kobe Walter has a
higher ceiling. I don't know. I don't want to say him out on
Akbaji, but I just don't know. Ever since his rookie season, he
had kind of a far remember correctly a strong close and then ever since then,
it's been right, what's going on here, Grady Dick is the answer
for me, And if you have a different answer, I'm curious to see
how you would sell it. No, I do think it's Grady Dick just
because he's providing the shooting that you're not getting from anybody else, and that's
just so valuable to especially if you're playing conventional center. Maybe that's a different
calculus if it is Olinik or Bouchet, and you could maybe that's not such
a premium skill. I think Brown The argument for Brown is that, like
he's on this team to be traded, like so you kind of like the
Simon's thing, like you probably got to just play him as much as you
can and hope that it goes well. But I think maybe that could be
accomplished by having him play a lot of backup point guard and maybe oh,
we're gonna show remember this, Bruce Brown can do this. Like Bruce Brown
has been all things to all people over his career, so being you know,
if they could sort of remind everybody that, yeah he's been a wing,
Yeah he's been a defensive piece, Yeah he's been a role guy,
played like power forward with Brooklyn. I think he maybe has more value as
a trade piece if you could talk people into thinking, like, hey,
he's a wing sometimes, but if you need him to play fifteen minutes a
night at the one like we can do that, and so then that just
you bring him off the bench a little bit more and just trust Grady Dick
to provide the shooting. That makes the most sense to me to go that
way. Is there who would be your Brown? Would be your second candidate
or would you that point like, well, let's try out Jacobe Walter there.
Definitely I'm not including Davion Mitchell. That's not going to Nogi hasn't moved
me. I mean, they're not a ton of options here, really,
Uh, I think it. I think it's yeah, it's Grady Dick is
one, and then Bruce Brown, I guess by default is the next guy,
and if somebody else emerges, great, But if not, like Baji,
What's I mean, he's on his second second team third is technically third
team on his r gonna play for his second team? Yeah, So how
does you does your answer change if Kelly Olinock is the five instead of a
little bit? I think, like I said, the the shooting that Grady
Dick provides matters a little less if Olynic is the five, I don't know,
I still probably would just rather have even more shooting, especially if you're
not sure that Scottie Barnes is gonna from three presumably. Yeah, Yeah,
so I think maybe it's kind of a big surprise. We just want maximum
shooting on the floor. But I don't know, sometimes that's the right way
it. I will say, if Barrett and Barnes are shooting holds, it
probably does give you more optionality on how to flesh out your best liners.
At least. Yeah that maybe that's the way Brown does take that over.
Is Grady Dick's shooting is like, that's nice, but we don't need it
because everybody else is providing it. The Washington Wizards, Grant Man, I
have so many questions for them. I'm just kidding. I have two jotted
down. I'm trying to decide between the two. Look, I mean,
I'm assuming do we just agree very quickly that bub Carrington is going to have
a massive role just out of the gate for this team. He has to.
Yeah, so I'm gonna ask you this question. Then, this is
the more basic Wizards question. Will both Kuzma and Brogden be on the roster
opening night? I think we're far enough into the off season to where I
feel it seems pretty likely that they will be on the roster opening night.
I I'm trying to think of I guess maybe if like, so, what's
the scenariot Brogden, who knows? But with Kuzma specifically, like there's a
chance where if Marknen is off the market, nobody wants Levine at that price,
like Kuzma could just become like, okay, who wants that. He's
kind of the best guy available. Now. Maybe Jeremy Grant's too pricey,
and so that would suggest he has a decent chance of changing teams before this
fall. I just still think they're both gonna be there and they'll be trade
deadline like speculation about both. Maybe Washington does something before that, but I
think they start the season. That's my gut, do you I I guess
so if you're looking at the trade deadline, I'm trying to set what would
be the over under here, So we have brogged in Kuzma, I'll throw
kiss Bert in there. Those are probably and you just found Teunish just because
he will be trade eligible. I'm gonna set the over under of one point
five of those guys being traded at the deadline by the deadline. Are you
going over or under? I'd go over just because I think you get there
With both Brogden and Kuzma. I think they both are appealing trade candidates.
They don't belong on this team. Contracts are both like totally totally reasonable.
Brogden's expiring, yeah, or does he have another one after the Yeah,
he's expired, So I would say over, I don't know how much more
i'd go By the time, I'm I'm spinning out because I'm looking at real
GM's depth starts and they have Johnny Davis listened to the starting shooting guard,
which I think is really funny. And the other question with this team,
I didn't jot it down. What do you make of the and we've seen
there's just been I would say conflicting. Is he coming off the bench?
Is they get Valentotis that he could spend time exclusively at the four? How
do you feel about this idea that I guess I would understand it more if
it's as of now, while we're waiting for Alex R to get stronger,
more acclimated to the NBA, you want yonas valent Tunis to take most of
the pounding at the five. I don't know that I ascribed to the idea
that Alexar is not going to be a full time center at some point in
his career. And I'm not saying that Wizards, but like that's been the
sentiment that is floating around there, and I feel, based off everything I've
read, seen, heard, whatever, there just seems to be maybe they
just haven't let out with their ultimate planets from there seems to be conflicting messaging
on well how do they view like how do they plan on I don't even
say only around him, but how they played on deploying this kid both as
a rookie and long term. Yeah, I mean it's the easy answer is
it's just way too early to know. I guess, like and that so
I remember when we were doing the live show, the Valentniss deal was like
it wasn't the best or the worst, but it was like really confusing,
like still the most random contract of free agency. I feel, what,
Yeah, what does this mean? It's like you kiss with a guy like
that that is such a not the easiest fit because of his limitations anywhere.
It's like, I guess that's a tradable number, but like, who's clamoring
for Valentnists, especially if this is what it costs to sign him to a
team that is not gonna win, like there were not better offers out there,
presumably for him if he chose the Wizards that or he knew he was
gonna play it ton, or he knew he was gonna be Yeah right,
maybe that's part of it. So I I don't know. I think I
think still the best outcome is that Star can play center. I don't know
if I can kill the Wizards for basically saying like we aren't sure he can
now Rhich is what the Valentunists acquisition suggests. But but yeah, like I
I don't know. I guess, like based on Summer League stuff, it's
it's not so much that Tsar looks like someone that's definitely a four or like
a playmaking for it's that he definitely looks like someone who is not a five
at this point. So you know, who knows what to take from from
Summer League for a guy like him. But yeah, I don't know.
I don't know what to do with that Valentin is signing what that means.
I also, I guess the thing I didn't consider it is so they guaranteed
them two years as part of that deal, and was like, they're just
not because sign and trade you have to be three years, but only one
needs to be guaranteed. But because he got the second year guarantee at over
ten million? Is that was that the difference in getting him and that?
But that really doesn't have anything to do with how it impacts are. So
I still remaine like pretty high on the direction of this team just because it's
like they're going about it the right way. But I have so many questions
about players they'll move, how like what does block cool Bali's usage look like?
Now when all right there's no more Denny avdya and what's going on with
Tyas Jones by the way, so phone around there, but you do have
Brogged in and Kuzma now Bob Carrington in here. So many questions, none
of them like damning or morbid, but just I have so many questions about
this team. Yeah, and then that's fine for where they are, Like
I do. I liked the the Holmes deal doing some asset preservation. Everybody
drink Sadik bay Holmes, Like even Valentuna is like get not a preservation,
But like, yeah, I guess that's you could trade them to somebody for
ten million bucks a year. The object getting paid for an entire year just
to rehab is as yeah, the Abdia trade, the Abdia trade is still
you have to you have to love Bob Carrington, which I'm assuming they do.
I don't. I've seen some of the highlights from him, and like
the passing feels like okay, like that's gonna be incredibly interesting. But we
we know how we collected, we know how we feel about Denny Ada on
this. It just feels like they decided this is as good as Abdia is
gonna be and and even and if that's true, like that's someone you keep
because he was really good. Like I don't even if you think he's done,
he's done upside, I just believe he's too redundant with Cooper Flag.
Yeah, it has to be something. I was like, who's he gonna
say, Like, who do they have that would be redundant with him?
Yes, yeah, he's in the way of Cooper Flag. Maybe that's it.
He was too good, Like we can't guarantee that we'll be bottoming out
this badly. Although then just trade him at the deadline. I don't know
that that's the one thing where I'm like, are you still you guys still
wizarding out here? Is that? What's going on? Are you ready to
take us out of here? I am? We did it. Thanks everybody
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won't miss me because Dan is gonna chop me up into a million little video
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to a use it right, think about it. I've talked enough on here
to where you could really if you could just make just clip stuff together.
And it's like to do that. But if someone wants to wants to have
Ai Grant Hughes an episode, I will post it. If someone goes,
please don't, I don't want please don't. And if the wind up being
even better, oh my god? Why Demanta Sabonis is actually underrated. I
didn't say that. I will notice bought the difference between real life Grant husing,
ay I grant us. It's a brave new world that are we live
in where I get say and thanks, everybody shouts Frank Mila Kean and apologies chaired out