Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis, share host,
and I'm pretty excited about tonight's show. We're going to be talking about the
aerial phenomenon. It's a film coming up by Randall Nickerson, and we have
an actual witness to that case, Emily Trim, who will be joining us
tonight from Canada as well. And we're coming up just six days on the
twenty fifth anniversary of that event, which was actually I don't know why,
I guess I'm kind of a geek in my iPhone geek. I asked how
many days ago it was. It was nine thousand and twenty five days ago.
So Randall and Emily will be coming up. We have Alejandro Rojas.
He's trying to he was running a little bit late. He's trying to connect
to us. We'll see how that goes, and so hopefully he'll be coming
up with the news. Just just a couple of things. Last week,
I wanted to apologize for not having a show. I went out to the
UFO Congress International UFO Congress and tried to do a round robin, a round
table there. I had everybody lined up and it just was not happening.
Hang on just a second, Alejandro is trying to join us. I just
have to do a couple of things. It's not working the way he's trying
to do it. So I so my sound card fried in my laptop,
which I always take to me, like in Russia and any place that I
do, any places that I do a show, I bring my laptop with
me. And it just wasn't having any of it. It wasn't working.
I had all kinds of things happen, not just that, other software problems.
I was on the phone with Apple for two days. Anyway, long
story short, I couldn't do a show, but I was able to record
three interviews, one with James Fox, one with let's see who else was
it? The Australians from Victoria, the whole group. I did around Robin
with them, and then I did another one. Why am I losing my
thought? Who the heck did I do? Oh? Yes? Actually,
my very favorite one was with Calvin Parker and Paul Heineck, son of Jay
Allan Heineck. How could I forget that? So those will be popping up
on YouTube. Also, they will be going out to supporters of the show.
So if you are support of the show. You will see these things
pop into your into your media player, or you can access them online.
If you're not, you can always watch the YouTube video currently up. I
have two. I have Calvin Parker and Paul Hi Nikop and I also have
James Fox up on my YouTube channel and that's over at Martin Willis Live Shows
over on YouTube. That's a channel. I know it's kind of a silly
name, but anyway, I am really excited for tonight's show. Did I
say that already? But I think we got Alejandro on the line. Alejandre,
you there, Alejandro, I see you, but there we go.
Can you hear me? I hear you. Welcome to the show. Thank
you. You must be on like what they call a sugar high from from
the UFO Congress. What I'm a bit on a sugar high, but that's
because we awarded ourselves with a cheat breakfast and we went off diet and I
had some friend syrup, so literally sugar. Otherwise, I'm still extremely tired,
if you can tell from my eyes, I'm just super super tired.
I think, you know, all that adrenaline that you're running on most of
the time just has gone away. So yeah, exhausted. Well, I'll
tell you you pulled off a great show. There's no other way to say
it. It's so much work. No one has any idea how it is
unless they actually help out. And I did help out. I screwed up
a couple of times on the TriCaster. I felt bad about that, but
overall it was I really enjoyed myself. I had a good time. Well,
you know what, we all screw up a little bit here and there,
and likely no major issues. I think even the screw ups that you
had, I don't think I had one person comment or even mentioned any of
it, so hopefully they didn't notice. I mean, you did a remarkable
job. You're excellent at it. It's so great to have you there helping
out. And yeah, you did such a great job. I mean,
sure there were some tense moments where things weren't exactly on cute, but besides
you and I don't think anybody else noticed. Yeah, yeah, no,
that can that gets That's like doing a live show times ten. Doing a
live show, you're always nervous because the troubles that can happen. You've been
through many with me doing the show. So but but there, Oh my
God, you're all the people in the audience and you're also recording for your
videos that go out. It's it's pretty intense, but we got through it
and it did. It was blast. Do you want to know about that
today? Go ahead, Yeah, I did want to mention. For instance,
you know, what we were doing was a live broadcast and just think
imagine. You know, we gave the Lifetime Achievement Award to George Knapp and
he has to do that on a daily basis. I mean broadcast news.
I did a bit as a college student, and it's so stressful and difficult.
Every day. You got to get to work. You gotta hunt down
a story, you gotta hunt down those people, you got to record the
show. Then you get into you know, the office, and then you
do the show live where you have to coordinate all the cameras and stuff.
Where we were doing. In fact, the system you're using was made for
that sort of switching on live broadcast, so you know, and you're manning
the whole directing part, so you do a great job with that. But
yeah, it's really stressful and it just you know, George Knapp has been
doing that for so many years and it's kind of funny because I've seen a
little bit online where people have said, oh, look, it's just a
group of friends giving each other awards, and that makes me kind of curious.
True, I'd have to admit I do consider George and Jeremy friends George
Jeremy Corbell. But I just to me, and I'd love to hear your
opinion, it seems intuitively obvious that George Knapp would receive a Lifetime Achievement award.
For God's sakes, this is a guy who made Area fifty one famous,
you know, and currently he's got the latest breaking news with all of
these league documents regarding eight hip, and then of course Jeremy Corbell with his
movies Stormary fifty one becoming huge, him bringing Bob Lazzar all over the place.
I don't think it takes much to see that, even objectively, you
know, these two are deserving of the awards we gave them. But yeah,
it was a lot of fun. Well, I gotta tell you,
you know, I I think no matter who are you going to give an
award too, that people are going to complain. I just really do.
I just feel that is just what happens these days. You know, I
definitely think George deserved that, even though he stood me up for an interview.
But hopefully he'll be on and he said he would come on the show.
I have to prerecord with him though at some point. But anyway,
yeah, I think would not believe. Yeah, I think he definitely deserved
that award. Um. You know, you have my thumbs up for that
one. Um. But anyway, Uh, like I said, that's just
what's going to happen, and it's the way it goes. Um. But
it was it was really exciting to see all these people, you know a
lot of them for the first time. That was what I really got out
of got out of the whole thing. It was a wondering Yeah, I
think the whole event turned out um and in retrospect better than expected. Um,
you know. And it's it's it takes a lot of pre work.
And you know Karen, for instance, who owns and is the decision maker,
she's the boss when it comes to this conference. People like to give
me credit and and thank you for that, and I do you know a
lot. I'm a second her, second hand man. But uh, you
know, it's all that stress and preparation that pays off and the Lord knows
you know, um, it's it's you know, it used to be owned
by someone who had deep pockets and he made his money elsewhere. But for
Karen, you know, it's really important that first of all, everything goes
well for reputation, but also you know that there's no major issues for financial
reasons, because it can be much more financially devastating to her than it would
be for the previous owners. So the stress you know, that you get
under is monumental. It's it's huge and to do to run the conference and
put it on. You know, she really hit it out of the ballpark
on this when it's a unique experience, I think. And you can let
me know your thoughts too, because you know the level of professionalism and the
of the speakers, which is something you know, we take a lot of
time and effort to make sure that they're all great people, even some of
the newer people to E. Snyder, Lisa Tenney, Sonya Barrett, some
of these people who haven't spoken, Debbie Cobble, the focus of the Intruder
book in the movie Incredible, Calvin Parker, Paheeneke, all of these people
who haven't been there before, you know, they were all extraordinary, they
were wonderful, they were really good, and so it's very exciting that it
all went so well and that everyone turned out to be so wonderful, including
our help, including you, and of course the other great people that were
hanging out with and then people like James Fox coming and revealing you know,
exclusive information that's never been seen before at the conference. It turned out really
really good. And just so people know, you know, any questions you
have, please ask Martin, because I know my brain's kind of fried.
So if you think there's some news that we should be sharing from the conference,
but we will be especially next week, you know, posting some short
videos and posting lots of news and information about some of the breaking news that
did happen during the conference. Yeah, one of the things I thought,
you know, getting back to George Knapp, you and I have had conversations.
We had one just before George went up, and I said to you,
you know that George does not like anyone to you know, say nice
things about him. It drives them crazy. And you and I were laughing
about it and you said to me, you said, yeah, keep it
secret that I'm giving him, you know, Lifetime Award. Just keep it
secret or will go out. And that's one of the first things he said
to you when he got up there. He said, I knew you know
that if you told me this, I wouldn't have shown up tonight. Yeah,
and that was Funnily. I was worried he was going to get mad
because he had told me in the past. Because when we do these awards,
we create these videos that show about their life, you know, and
why they deserve the awards, and I couldn't ask him for any information.
So I had to do my research separately for the video, and I had
to be super secretive because in the past when I told him, well,
we really want you there and we want to give you award on Sunday,
he would say, no, you can't. It's not that you know,
Thank you very much, but I really just feel uncover when I get attention
for awards and stuff, and not just from us. I know he fills
that way with other awards. You know, you don't see him promoting that
he has, you know, all these awards from these Edward R. Murrow
Awards and these Emmys and everything. He doesn't talk about that much. Yeah,
But so this year I. He never told me that. He never
said, Okay, if I come, don't give me an award, and
I kept expecting it, and I was so worried that he would, even
like a week before, after we had done the planning and I did all
this work to create the video and the research on his background, and I
hope he lets me share this video that I did, because you know,
it shows how he got to where he is and that. But he never
told me that now he'd never caught win, and I was so surprised.
He never said don't do it, because then I would have had to have
not so it was great. So we do it and he comes to this
stage and he's sweargering kind of like a John Wayne you know ye battle thing.
There is a similar already flick that giving me this look. And he's
like, that was really sneaky alhandro and I said, I know, and
I'm just laughing and giggling, and he's like, you know, I wouldn't
have come if you If you I would have known, and I said,
I know, I totally know that. So it worked out great. So
we were able to sneakily give him this award that he totally deserves. Jeremy
was telling me how shy who was about it afterwards, but of course Jeremy
was happy that we were able to reward him too. Yeah, okay,
Alejandro, well we've eaten up all our time, so thanks so much and
we'll be seeing you next week. Get some good rest and yeah, yeah,
just remember don't jump back on that sugar. It's awful hard once you
take that first butter show. Oh, don't worry about it. That's it.
That's one cheat breakfast. We're going back to die at the rest of
the time. But thank you so much for doing such a great job at
the conference. You were awesome. He was wonderful to have you there,
and I hope you have a great show to day. Thanks a lot,
have a good one. Yeah, all right, so everyone, that's that's
it for the news, and now we're going to bring on our guests.
We have we have Randall Nicholson who has created this wonderful film. He's taken
forever to do it and he is I know him well enough to tell you
this. He is. I call him Randy, but Randall will try to
call him Randall because he's a professional. And when I say he's a professional.
You should look at his wildlife photography and some of his work. He
is extremely fussy, perfectionist, and this film has taken a long time.
And after speaking to him the other night or last night actually, he said
that he when he watches the film, he loves it, and that's he
is his harshest critic. So I cannot wait for this film to come out.
Welcome to the show, you two, Hi Martin, thanks for having
a son. Hi and Emily. You and I met, I don't know
three years ago and in Phoenix, and it was we hung out quite a
bit. We had a lot of a lot of really great talks and it
was very enjoyable to meet you. Yes, yeah, I was wonderful,
and you had your artwork. I want to talk about that tonight because I
think I think you have mentioned before that you know, you were influenced a
lot by that. But first of all, Randy, you mentioned that we're
coming up on twenty five years. Is there people talking about the twenty fifth
anniversary of that event? I don't think so, but I think it's something
to, you know, to mention an honor. It was twenty five years
ago that this event occurred and it affected a lot of people in Africa and
beyond that affected John Max's life, and Tim Leech in England and many people
this this event UM affected and ut spending so much time with the students and
the school and the wonderful teachers there and all the reporters, I felt like
it was I thought it was a great to be something to be honored.
Yes, yeah, I know, like you said, it's it affected so
many people's lives. And you know John Mac, who is no longer with
us, um, you know, that's just it's just too bad that,
you know, he didn't get to see um where this is, this whole
thing as has gone. And Emily, do you remember meeting John Mac?
You know, it was kind of a bit of a chaotic time when the
whole event occurred, so we were introduced to so many different people and I
didn't really know who was soon at the time. So do I recognize his
face as somebody that was down there? Yes, but like it was,
you know, like Cynthia Hines was down there. I mean BBC was down
there, and it was just like so many different people that we were being
interviewed by at the time. Oh, yes, And do you remember,
let's see Randy, you're still there. Yeah, can you hear me?
Oh? Yes, it looked like your call was coming through again. For
some reason, it was I think it was coming through with the video.
Oh okay, well during the commercial, we'll try that. Yeah, we'll
try that. We'll try that's good, and that won't be until another I
don't know. It looks like twenty five thirty minutes from now. But so,
Randy, when did you first get word of this whole event? The
first time I heard about this was actually with John Mack in Boston and he
was showing me the the kids, the video of the kids from Zimbabwe the
next week. That was actually when he got back from there in ninety four.
And yeah, I was just struck by the honesty and sincerity of the
people. And that's that's something I've found. When I went and found the
school and um and UM started meeting the teachers and all the other students,
I'm like, Wow, these people are pretty straight and real, you know,
and honest. And I noticed that in their eyes, you know,
as much in the archival footage as I did with them in person in the
present day. And that that moved me, particularly when people are telling you
a story that is, uh, seems unbelievable. Um, but you could
really feel the truth and honesty of of everybody, the student witnesses and the
teachers and the other people in the surrounding area that had seen things. You
know, they weren't they were just genuine And I really appreciate that actually about
the whole school and all the witnesses that have come forward. Um, Emily,
a question for you, Um, do you sometimes take a look at
some of those interviews on YouTube or wherever they are, wherever you find them
of the children being interviewed by John Mack? I mean, it's so chilling.
Is that something you actually look look at sometimes? Uh? Yeah,
it was actually kind of a bit of a funny story. I don't know
how I met Randall. Um. I didn't like I locked the experience away
for quite some time. I was like, I am a missionaries kid,
and we moved in nineteen ninety five, so just after the event had occurred,
and moved to Canada, so I was dealing with like culture shock,
and I was dealing with new schools and a new residency and um, you
know, all these different things. So I kind of locked it up for
a while. And didn't process the actual event. And then I think I
was I must have been like nineteen to twenty one when I looked online for
the first time and my mind started thinking about the event, and I was
actually kind of mad, to be honest, because you know, people in
the experiencers, as I've just come to know, you know, they get
ridiculed a lot. There's a lot of stig mind stereotype on them. And
I wrote, I think it was the John mc Institute, And that's kind
of how Randall and I got introduced, where I wrote kind of a nasty
email, pretty upset over the fact that our stories were all over and we
were just kids, you know at the time, and like, you knew
the event happened, you knew that people had come down to interview you,
but you didn't realize the ramifications of what it meant to actually be an experiencer
at the time. So, um, you know, so that how random,
And I mentioned he at first was like I don't know if I'm gonna
ever speak to this person, if they're going to bind a beam. Yeah,
I remember that very well. Yeah, it's been a long, a
long journey with Emily. Um from that first email of you know, saying
what what do you Why are you telling our story or something to that effect.
I'm like, oh, okay, UM, it was very interesting,
but it's been it's grown over time, a long time actually, to a
really nice friendship and uh yeah, and I really appreciate that and um and
uh and a lot with the other Arrow kids too, just to get to
know get to know them and their lives and their families and um yeah,
it's been pretty special. So when did you first to speak to each other?
Um, I believe it was two thousand. I don't know. I
think it was two thousand and eleven or two thousand twelve somewhere around there.
Yeah, when we first like when when the email first happened, or when
we first actually met. The email was two thousand and eight. Um yeah,
I don't have it, by the way earlier. Yeah, I still
have it. Um. So, and then I think we met in person
in two thousand and twelve or twenty thirteen thirteen. Yeah, I think it
was two thousand and thirteen because at the time, I u it just the
experience or to come to the forefront of my mind and I was really needing
to process the event and I saw Randall and had connected on Facebook, and
I saw that he was trying to reach out to one of the other teachers
to speak about the event. And I had no idea. M Randall like
I. He had presented to me U after the original email, that there
was a documentary that was happening, and I at first didn't want to participate.
Um. It took me about five years after the facts, UM,
and the experience started becoming more and more to the forefront of needing to be
processed. And UM, I've reached out to him and uh, he said,
you know, can I call you? And UM, I could get
and I told him a testimony and he said, you know, you've got
a very good comprehension of the event and what had occurred at the time,
and was you know I had unpronounced to me. Uh, there was um
these interviews happening in Los Angeles. So he asked me if I would fly
out there, and and I did, And the rest is kind of in
history. And I've been a part of this journey with Randall and along with
the other children who are now adults, and you know, we've we all
felt it was time to to talk about it now. If it wasn't for
this film. Emily, do you think that you would have connected with your
fellow classmates or do you think it may never have I'm some of them.
I'm sure you have been in touch with but I mean, has this really
helped pull a lot of you together? Well, I think you know.
On my Instagram today, I actually posted the posts saying I think one of
the most valuable things that we got out of Aerial School was creating deep bonds
of friendships and families and you know, we always connected. None of us
really discussed the event after the fact. You know, it got the attention
worldwide, and you know a lot of the kids were able to process it
as a group at the time, but then as we grew up, we
just kind of put it away and um, you know, focused on our
lives and focused on just developing into adults and um, you know, focusing
on our careers, and um we've always we've always stayed in couch and we
will always have those bonds and we'll always have those memories. But yeah,
we didn't really um discuss it. So it was a nice opportunity because at
the time, UM, I was standing side by side with Liso during the
event and one of the other children and Emma and Selma who was on your
show, was it last year a couple of years ago, but she revisited
the show at last last summer, okay. Um, Emma and Selma also
came down for the interviews in Los Angeles, and we were both of us,
uh, these two for women, Um Liso and myself were standing side
by side journey Eventum and an Am I work standing side by side during the
events, So we didn't know that, you know, we didn't know that
we were going to be seeing who was actually winked at the time, you
know. So it was kind of a beautiful thing to have happened, and
it was a great way of reconnecting and discussing the whole experience, you know,
one of the things I neglected to do. And I apologize to the
new listener since I would say, since actually December sixteenth, twenty seventeen,
since the New York Times article came out, everything is basically changed. And
with that I have new people listening to the show all the time, and
I do get a lot of email with people asking me, can you explain
the cases a little bit more, you know, because it's all new to
a lot of people. This case someone may have never heard about Emily.
Would you like to walk us through in an nutshell kind of the events that
led to this happening. Yeah, okay. So we were the families at
the time that were there founded Aerials School, and so we were a group
of children that had actually founded the school, and we were attending classes just
like normal, and we had a recess break. And during the recess it
was just like any other day, we were playing in the playground, which
was there was a parameter of a boundary because there was a lot of brush
where snakes and you know, all different heapt wildlife and diversity could exist in
Rome. So we were playing and my friend and I this is just my
personal account, my friend and we were hopping along the boundary logs and all
of a sudden, we heard this high pitched frequency and there was like a
flash in the sky and this ship landed in just outside of the parameter of
the boundary logs, and all of a sudden, there was chaos on the
playground. Kids were running towards them the ship to get a better look,
and these beings came out, and two beings presented themselves in front of me
and my friend Lisol, and we experienced what we would call psychic or telepathic
communication. And I had images like photographic images flutter in front of my face,
like but in my mind. UM. And a lot of the children
described which we all discuss as an environmental impact UM as well, so like
climate change and UM the uses of technology. UM. That was kind of
the gest of the particular event. And then the school bell rang and everything
just disappeared. UM. It seemed as though time was distorted, so it
could have been longer than about a fifteen minute period, but we don't know.
UM. So that's that's the just the actual case in a nutshell.
UM. The most beautiful thing that I find out of the whole case is
the diversity, is the human connection behind um aerial school. We were were
all diverse, We were all from different backgrounds, we were all from different
races and religions, UM, you know. So for me, there's a
human um connection to the whole thing. And I'm not really aware of any
other cases that are so diverse, UM, you know. And it's a
beautiful thing to think that a life form from another planet visited a group of
children which are the future of the planet and you know, communicated to such
a diverse group. Hmm. Yeah. And I can fill in a little
bit too if you want, go ahead, yeah, yeah, just for
the audience. I mean, this happened in Africa, in Zimbabwe, in
a very rural area, um uh in a in very much farm a farm
area. And and Emily's right that the farmers all got together and created this
school. Um and um. Yeah, this event was you know, primarily
at the Aerial Primary School, but but it was also witnessed outside of that
um, in the in the that whole during that whole week period of time.
So just to give people a little idea, so you know, one
of the things that fascinated me was that it took place in Africa in in
such a rural area, um and that there were so many witnesses to this
event and it's and it literally you know, it did go uh prime time
initially when it happened, and then it disappeared until I picked it up in
two thousand and eight. Really yeah wow. Yeah. Uh so while we're
speaking with you, uh Randall, what uh what actually kicked into gear this
uh this this is a big project and why what happened. Um. Well,
I I you know, the more I found out, the more I
was like, wow, this is uh. I think it really happened with
finding the kids, going to the school, finding it was still there in
a wait, and then going back again and again. UM, but also
going all over the world uh talking to the to the these witnesses. UM.
I spent a long time uh in the beginning, UM, interviewing witnesses
that had seen that we're not part of the aerial school, but we're around
the area to sort of get a sense of what they had seen. UM.
And again I was struck by their you know, UM, their their
candor and honesty and UM. But I think when it was the kids also
motivated me to carry on. UH. And also once I started interviewing the
reporters that covered the scene, I was amazed because they had kept everything that
you know, had happened during that day. They kept all the tapes,
all their notes because they they thought it was really a significant event. And
UM, you know, listening to them the different reporters, that was impressive
to UH, to me and motivated me even further. I mean all along
the way, every time I get it got in a new piece of archival
footage from nineteen ninety four. I was remotivated and uh. Um and and
you know, the end goal was really to to just get this uh story
told right, you know, to tell the story as it happened and by
the people it happened too. Um. I chose not to narrate because I
just felt like it's a much difficult, more difficult path to take as a
filmmaker. But it's Uh, I think it's more authentic because it's comes from
comes from the people themselves. UM. So yeah, it has been.
It has been quite a journey. And uh and uh the film is finally
done, which is great. Uh, we're just right now working on the
distribution and getting it out into the world. Now, I've I've been asked
probably you know how many times I've been asked, We've talked about this.
People are constantly asking me when, when, and where? Um are we
any closer to being able to answer either one of those questions? Well,
I think, I mean the film is completed, that's not the issue right
now is distribution and we're in talks with some people now. And uh,
but again, once that those conversations to have have to take place to make
that and they have. They're part of that decision on as far as the
release time, whether it fits in their slot. When that slot is whether
there's going to be a world premiere, which likely there will be. UM,
but I have to go through this process to UH to get to to
nail down those times. So it's it's coming, it's coming soon. It's
completed. UM, it's really good. I hate to say that when it's
your own work, but it's not just been my work. It's been the
work of the crew. It's been the work of the kids at Ariel and
the school and the teachers and Judy and so many other So many people have
been just amazingly talented and skilled and dedicated to UH to getting this film out.
And you had someone pretty important actually watch this and comment on it argue,
I'm not sure if you were able to reach him and see if you
could use use his name or not yet not yet, but we've you know,
we we were starting to. One of the things we're doing now is
getting testimonials. We're sending it to some very famous people and UH well known
people, and we're starting to get those UH testimonials blurbs from them about how
they feel about the film. But we've yeah, we've we've definitely we have
several very famous as people who have commented on the film and sent us really
great emails. But we're not allowed yet to use that the quote, you
know, we're uh, they haven't narrowed down the exact quote that they want
to share. But we just heard heard from Dan Ackroyd again today and another
man, Gregg Mark Kelly's a very well known uh publicist and um advertising and
uh for Hollywood. He's fantastic and uh. Yeah, so we've been getting
those testimonials in what's really helped with the distribution side too. So uh,
it's it's been a switch for me from going from the creative storytelling side to
now I am a businessman. Yeah you know what I mean. And uh,
I have to you know, take my hat and change my hat,
you know, and focus on that. But but it's coming. It's uh.
And and believe me, if there's nobody else more than me and myself
that wants it to be out into the world because I just aware of how
how this will affect will affect people. I mean, we've we wee and
and yes, of course absolutely right, and affect affect the kids absolutely and
uh, and to be able to share their story it's really important and uh
and absolutely I feel like this in a big way. This for me,
this is a gift to the kids that were there and the people that were
there, and the teachers that were there, and the other witnesses that were
around there, the pilots that were near to tell the story like because and
I think that will probably be the most appreciated by the people that were there
because of the hard work that got went into it to actually find out what
the story was, you know, not not just you know, the the
event itself, but what led up to the event and what happened after the
event and the human impact of it. Because this is really this is a
story about people. It's not about special effects or woooo stuff. It's it's
it's about something serious that occurred and how people dealt with it and have struggled
with it and how it changed their lives. Right. Yeah, Well,
I wait by my mailbox every day looking for the video. I haven't seen
you. It's very influence. Yeah, Emily, Um, one thing that
you said in your story, I just I just want to I mean,
it really hit me. Even though you said it so a matter of factly
was you were standing next to two beings. Um. To me, that's
like wow. And I've talked to Salmar about this and I was just awe
struck by what she said. Um, and the telepathic thing that you're talking
about. It does make sense first of all, that a school children are
are witnessing these has been a number of cases because of the message to pass
to the young ones that are going to carry on in the future, you
know, protect the planet, and boy, we see signs of that right
now we're possibly in big trouble with what's going on climate wise. Can you
describe do you remember, I know you were only in the third grade,
but can you remember what the beings look like? Can you describe those?
Please? Yeah? Well, I mean it is I was talking to Randall
about this yesterday, and I think all of us are going to have a
bit of a different depiction that very similar in their attribute just based on being
human. And you know, I use the descriptions like beauties in the eye
of the beholder, you know, so we're all going to have kind of
slight differences and that makes it real. They were kind of reflective in their
appearance. There was a bit of aluminosity to them, large black eyes,
like elongated heads, like enlarged heads, very uh, longer thinner necks,
not too long, but longer thinner necks. UM. Their limbs were more
flimsy almost, and they were they were hovering, they weren't actually touching the
ground. And I described them with a little bit as flight of a pot
belly. I don't know if that means anything, but that's that's what they
um looked like. And it was slightly um like if you were to use
an animal as a description. UM. The skin was like a reptile skin,
but luminous with like an iridescence to it. Wow. I remember when
I spoke to Salma and she said that she thought they almost looked like porcelain
and away did you have any of that thought? I mean now that you
look back at it, well, like they were reflective to me, so
there was light they would be for me, I would describe it as more
light um, because this event happened in the day UM. So I when
I describe it as more of like a luminosity and um a neuerridescence, it
would be like taking a fabric and creating a different shine on the fabric,
so their skin to me reflected the light I see. And when when you
got the telepathic message, can you describe what that was like? I mean,
it's just really hard to picture how you know how something happens telepathically?
Yeah, well, you know, I don't know if it's it's difficult these
days because we're doing things like transferring consciousness into robots, and you know,
we have all these kind of advancements in our technology. You know that it's
it's like a neural Linkum, So you how I describe it as if the
you're immediately immersed in the connection with the ice, and it's almost as little
the ice create this neural link with you, and then it was just like
seeing a slight hill of images run across your mind like you would in a
dream, but um, happening in real time. Wow. Did you talk
to other you know, children around you afterwards? I know you said you
spoke to your friend, but would you say that they were getting the same
messages or just similar messages. I think we all had a similar comprehension.
Randall might have a bit more of an understanding on that. I didn't have
very much time to spend with the students after the event happened. My family
and I moved very soon after the event, so a lot of the other
kids got more of an opportunity to discuss it, Whereas because we were missionaries,
we had moved back to Canada, and so I didn't really have that
time spent with the other children to really go over and discuss that. And
to be honest, the teachers kind of wanted things to go back to normal,
so I went back to work as usual, you know, because our
main focus was gaining education, right, so they tried to normalize the situation
for us as much as possible. And Randa would have Randall would have a
bit more um insight into hearing. Yeah, I could say, like,
you know, it seemed like the people, the children that were there that
were closest to this uh creature UM, that had direct eye contact with it,
seemed to have had some type of telepath that communication. Um. I
can't say that it was everybody, but I there were several several and UM,
you know it is it is very different. Uh. I think the
message was the same, but again, like people do, every everybody was
in a different place and uh there you know what their background, was their
education or their religious beliefs. I mean I think in affected what what occurred,
uh in their interpretation of it U. Um yeah, I think uh,
you know when the kids once, once everything slowed down, the kids,
one hundred kids ran into the school screaming. Um. Because after it
all left, Uh, they were pretty terrified, um for the most part,
and went into the school screaming, And the teachers didn't know what to
do really um and had them draw, which was very one of the wisest
things they did. Um because of the parents were so you know, their
children came home that day saying they saw a craft and alien creatures. So
um, they you know, they the school had to act, you know,
um because of the parents. UM. So but yeah, I think,
UM, what I've heard from Emily and several other people and also independently
other people that have had contact with these things, it's a very similar type
of of series of events that take place, and this seems to be one
of them. M not always, but from several other people from other other
cases that I've talked to, It's it's not uncommon. How did this how
did this story leak out? How did the press get ahold of this to
begin with, do you know, Yeah, the BBC reporter from England,
he was stationed in Zimbabwe at the time, and he basically it was him
and along with Cynthia Hind who was a MUFUN investigator, and two other reporters
in Africa who really broke the story. And then John Mac came along a
little a little later, and then that was the story was brought over to
the United States, because up until that point it was just a story in
Europe and Africa. Is that right? Wow? And how long after this
happened to John Mac jump on a plane and get out there. He was
out there a couple of months after it had occurred. Yeah, a couple
of months. And yeah, do you think in a way that was too
long? Or do you think that the children had a really good um?
You know, were they with it still fresh? Do you think, oh,
it's fresh? I think with events like this that I've seen, it's
it doesn't really fade. Um. I think he I think it allowed the
kids, you know, for them to settle a little bit into themselves and
what they had experienced when he came, because again, he brought a totally
different element of being a child psychiatrist and psychoanalysts. So he brought a lot
of skills into those interviews that right came. So it was a very different
He brought in something completely different that really brought out a lot of things that
nobody, nobody thought to ask before that. You know, right, was
he? Um was anyone else interviewing these kids prior to him? Uh?
You mean in nineteen ninety four? Yes, yes, there were the BBC
and uh cynthiahind from Mufaun and then uh uh two other reporters, one from
ZBC and the other one from South African Broadcasting. Yeah, and then and
then after even after John mac came, Uh, there were two or three
others that came and interviewed the kids. So what's amazing about this to people
who don't know is the consistency of the reports throughout time. Um, I
mean, this wouldn't be a story if those reporters didn't do the interviews,
you know, we would we wouldn't have those interviews and and the record of
them, you know, right immediately after the incident, and then two weeks
later, and then two weeks later, and then two a month and a
half later, and then another three months later, and then another two years
later, and then today, and then it's remarkably consistent throughout. You know,
it's like one person's you know, how how could people keep the story
if it was a made up story? How could it be held together so
well over so much time? We have to we have to go to break
and just in just a minute, but right before breakthough, we have just
like twenty five seconds or something like that. How many hours of footage did
you look through? H six hundred hours U of Yeah, it's an enormous
amount of footage that has been whittled down to an hour and forty um.
So it's uh, yeah, it's it's it was an enormous, enormous task
in that most most documentaries you have one hundred hours of footage or two hundred
hours, six hundred and six hundred good hours of footage. Was really really
difficult to get through. Um, but we did it. Wow, and
it's really good. So we have a lot of extra footage for after the
film comes out too. All right, well, uh, stay tuned everyone,
We're going to go into about a four minute breaker. So m okay,
very good, Emily, this this question, this question is for you.
We're going to be taking calls later on. I'd love some calls to
come in and just please be respectful to the to the guests. UM when
you do call, and I'll announce that number later on. Emily, would
you overall say, if you reflect back on this and where your life is
now, would you say that this was a positive or more of a negative
experience in your life? Um? I think it's been a little combination of
both. The event itself, UM, I think the best way I can
describe it is you experience a bit of fear because it's something known that you've
never seen before, which is a normal human reaction in response to anything that
you haven't experienced before. I guess for me, Ariel has been there's been
a lot of psychological that's occurred. So I've had some ups and downs with
the whole experience. Just as I've processed it, I don't see it as
a negative. I see it as a positive. I'm more open minded to
I guess comprehension of how I fit in this world, you know, as
an experiencer, and you know, I think I see beauty. I like
to see the good in situations, so I don't see it as a negative
I don't see it as aliens invading or anything fearful or yeah, so I
see it as a positive. A lot of people will up talk about like
I don't want to sound too fringy or anything like that, but a lot
of people will talk about abilities that they think they have gained from these experiences.
Do you have anything that you think that may you may have gained besides
of what you just talk about. Well, um, I gained a whole
profile of artwork, which I find to be quite a blessing. I paint
from my subconscious and I find my work to be fascinating because for me,
I get to see the analysis of I mean, the experience of it's a
trauma, so it imprints on your brain. So if you see the analysis
of what actually comes out through my art, and I think that's a blessing
and a beauty. I agree. I actually have seen your artwork you post
a lot of online. I've seen it in person too, and you have
some really interesting pieces. Really, I really like a lot of beautiful.
It's really really very very creative, and some of it's very intense, which
should not be a surprise. I think. Yeah, And I don't want
to sound like I'm biased or you know, because it's my work, But
I just think it's fascinating. And if you're interested in arts, if you're
interested in psychology and you know trauma, mental health, all those kinds of
things you know, and sci fi and you know a true story, I
think you know check it out. Emily, have you had to battle skeptics
at all? I try not to focus on that. You know, you're
going to have people that don't believe, and that's okay. You know,
if you can just speak your truth and be honest with yourself, I think
that's the most important thing. Um, you know, I stay ground age.
My family is the most important thing to me, you know, the
people that are close to me. I'm not wanting to want to push anything
on anybody. I never have, And so I think it's just more valuable
to share the human connection behind all of this, so that I find that
more tangible for people to digest, and and I find people become a bit
more open minded when you speak from your heart and your truth. Right.
I agree with you there, which go ahead, Randy. Did you have
something you wanted to add to that? Yeah? I just I just think
that you know, you mentioned you were talking about with Allahndra, how things
have changed quite a bit in the last two years since a lot of release
of information, the Navy incidents, etc. You know, people have gone
through a lot of ridicule and and you know, difficulty, you know,
being able to even talk about it. I know many many people who have
shared things with me that they will not share publicly, you know, the
things that they've seen or experienced, because of the fear of being ridiculed.
And and I really hope that's going to change because of how important this subject
is to all of us, not just any individual. This has to do
with every single person on the planet. And I'm hoping that that you know,
these people who have not had a voice, and there are thousands and
thousands of them, most of them are silent, can have their their say
and have their voice about something that really profoundly impacted them and really does again
have to do with every single human being on this planet. Really, do
you hope the audience is going to get out of this film? Um?
I think you know. We had a screening antest screening for the crew and
had a few guests with us in a in a full side theater, and
it looked fantastic, But what was really striking, and this has happened in
other screenings, are the people that are in tears, how it hits them.
And I guess part of that is some of that is people that have
gone through their own experiences, but there were people there that you know,
had nothing to do or we're not interested in this topic at all. But
the struggle and the journey that the characters go through in this film are universal,
you know, they're they're universal stories that anybody can relate to, and
that's I think the magic of it. And I think people will take away
uh, like many that have seen it recently that you know, they have
to sit for about twenty minutes to really take it in. Um. But
I think it really shows how these are real people that go through these things,
and that was the goal, and you can see that throughout the film,
the honesty and the reality mum throughout from these people. I'm just just
playing honesty and you can see that. UM. So the takeaway I think
is hopefully to open people's minds a little more and realize that all kinds of
people have been affected by this and that people should be heard out. You
know, this this is Uh, it's a big risk for a lot of
people to come up, come forward about this. Um. All these kids
have taken a risk, you know, from Ariel and so many others.
And I hope and I think that we're the times are changing where we can
actually have a grown up conversation about this, you know all of it,
right. I think you and I had a conversation, Oh, I don't
know a while back, and I said, without you even realizing it,
the reason this film has taken so long because now as it's time to come
out, because people are taking it more serious. And you know, would
you say it's been seven or eight years now, we met in North Carolina
quite a few years ago, and you're working on it, then yeah,
No, it's taken ten years and ten years, yeah, And I don't
feel, you know, I've left the I've just trusted that this film would
come out when it needed to come out. And I believe me, there's
not been a day where I've not been working on this film. Um.
And it's been an awful, awfully long long haul, um and getting funding,
all the all the other things people know nothing about. But you know,
ten years for a film is you know, I had many opportunities to
stop it where it was and release it, but I feel completely satisfied where
it is now. It's it's it's at a it's at a very um high
level of storytelling and picture and sound, and uh yeah, I feel you
know, I've gone through it several times over and over and over and over
and over thousand, probably a thousand times, and to get it right because
I feel like, you know, it's, uh, this is one story,
and I feel like this is the the story that will last throughout history
because it's it is the it is the actual story from beginning to end by
the people that were there. I personally, my opinion is the best part
of this movie is seeing the children during the event, seeing snippets from that
time, and then seeing them today and having them talk about it today.
I think that's the most important part in my opinion of this film. And
I want to just ask you about that in regards to how in heck did
you find all these witnesses and what length did you go to? Well,
that was I found all the witnesses starting at the Aerial school because I got
all as much information as I could when I first got there in o eight
and spent nine months driving around the country finding some of these people. And
you know that Zimbabwe was in chaos at that time, and a lot of
the students. After ninety five, the politics and Zimbabwe started to go south
and a lot of the white farmers and other people started to leave the country.
So I had to start tracking people down that we're in Australia, that
we're in England, that we're all over the world. And so that was
a journey for sure. That took a lot of time and money to just
just make that happen. And yeah, I just really appreciate that their help,
and you know that they trusted me enough to tell their story. I
mean that that's a big deal. I think. Yeah, when particularly on
this topic, when you know people will trust you that you're going to do
a good job of their stories is a compliment. And I really honor the
trust that people have given me to do it right. And I really do
feel like I've done it the best possible I could possibly do it with the
help of my crew and everybody else, because you can't do these things alone.
They're just too big. Yeah, yeah, that's right, Emily,
just I just wanted to ask you one more thing and then I'd like to
offer calls out there for people if they'd like to call in and we'll talk
about that and just a second. But Emily has since this has happened,
where there's media now about this, a lot more media than because this movie's
upcoming and you know, the anniversary and all that on. Do you get
people contacting you through Facebook or email about your experience and you know, in
other words, are you getting kind of bugged by people, you know,
annoyed? Or do people respect your privacy? I mean, for the most
parting I find, um, people just want to share when they hear that,
they that I've been through something, um and they've heard me speak um.
For the most part, people want to share their experiences as well.
UM. So I I uh, you know, I respect that because I
know what it's like to come forward and people want to be heard UM.
And And that's I think what it comes down to is that most people don't
talk about their experiences. So when they hear somebody come forward, um,
you know and put their life for you, You're you're putting your life on
in jeopardy, and you know, in terms of credibility and your psychiatric well
being and all these kinds of different and you know stereotypes that get put on
you. Um, they they just want to share with you. And UM,
I respect that, you know. So I mean not everybody that comes
to you is not always um, you know, there are some people that
are out there and there are some people that really respect and value the actual,
um integrity of what Aeriel is all about. Um. You know,
I just want to say that I think all the students, you know,
we didn't really attach ourselves to uphology and um, you know, we didn't
do this for you know, some sort of and I claim, um,
you know, because it does jeffardize your career, in your sanity and you
know, people question you and all sorts of different things. UM, So
none of us did it for any other reason. Is just I think most
people can agree with on some enclosure to the whole event. But um,
there have been other people that do reach out. I think a lot of
um, my followers on Instagram, are you know, interested in just the
subject and the genuine miss of the you know, reality of the subject.
Uh huh, yes, I wondered. I remember. Let's see, it
was a few years ago when I had salmon and the the video, just
the video alone, never mind the podcast hit like forty thousand views or something
like that, and she was contacted from all over the world. I don't
know. You know, what I'm actually getting at is once this film comes
out, are you going to be ready for that? I don't know.
I mean I wasn't ready when the day, you know, the event happened.
I wasn't ready for that. But I think life just kind of throws
things back you and you have to kind of just roll with it, you
know what I mean. So I think I'm as ready as I'll ever be,
you know, and I mean I'll be it's with you. I was
a little bit nervous coming on the show today, and but you just,
you know, you just go with it. And I think that's all I
can do. You know, our names are out there, and you know,
that's just reality for the students. You know, it happened, we
got interviewed, and um, that's that's all we can do is just be
yourself now at this point, and I think that's the best thing that we
can actually do. Well. I'm going to open the lines up and Bill
will be screening them, so if anyone wants to give a call in and
ask our guests or guests a question. That number is eight five five four
seven two five four eight three, and Bill will answer the phone and screen
you. So if anyone has some questions, feel free to to give us
a call. And again I'll put that number up on the screen so you
can see it. But before anyone calls in, I guess I want to
ask as far as Randy, you said that you actually knew John Mack and
that was a tragedy. We lost him so so young over in England there.
But did he talk a lot after this? Did he bring up this
case a lot when he came back to the States, And did you try
to make some traction with getting people to look at this whole phenomon? Yes,
there were a couple attempts at a documentary for it, and yeah,
he was very uh he actually included it in the book he was writing after
that first book in ninety four, So yeah, he was trying to get
some people to look at this and just order everything fell through. But I
also want to say, like this this anniversary, this is a twenty fifth
anniversary of Harvard going after John mac which is something they've never done in their
history of their university, which goes back three hundred ninety years or so,
and yeah, I just want to honor that anniversary as well for John Max's
journey and also the BBC reporters journey. And you know this, this has
affected so many lives, this event, and I think I hope we can
come to a day where we can people aren't afraid to talk about it and
to be open about it. And I think we can get somewhere because obviously
it seems like something's happening for sure around the globe. And I think it's
imperative as a species, as are all of us as the human species,
that we try to understand it and make some headway. Because I'd said it
before, but it really could involve our say yes, and there's nothing more
important than that. I agree. We have Chris on the line from New
Jersey. Welcome to the show, Chris, Hi, Hi, great show,
Thank you. Everyone really enjoying it. A question for Emily, I
don't know if she wants to get into it, but would she be willing
to share the circumstances of the visitations after she was a child, because I
know she had some Is that something she'd be willing to share with the audience.
UM. Well, I think we were going to try and keep it
to aerial school, UM, just for the anniversary I did. I will
acknowledge that I did experience a couple other experiences in my life that were more
spiritual and personal to me. I can. I can talk about one briefly
that UM. My partner at the time also witnessed and my room I was
sleeping, UM, and my whole room illuminated. And it was not a
thunderstorm, it wasn't a tech technology email function or anything like that. My
whole room illuminated with this light. And I woke my partner up at the
time and a panic because I woke up in a panic. And then I
said, I don't know what just happened, but it's going to happen again.
The whole room lit up and UM, and then it was like on
command, the whole room lit up all over again. And I don't know
what to make out of these experiences, but they to me are more spiritual
and personal. Not everything is UM, you know, for everybody. UM.
Sometimes I think these things are is meant to happen for you, and
they continue to mold you and shape you into the person that you are.
Thanks well, I respect great, Thank you all right, Chess, thank
you for the call. So the lines open again eight five five four seven
two five four eight three. Feel free to call in and let's just see
what we have for messages. So also, if I get a chance,
I will check out the chat room and we can you can also post questions
up there. I just it's a little difficult to do here solo and do
the whole the whole thing. What about Emily? What about press? Has
there been Has there been any time that the press has tried to contact you
and you know, trying to get us, trying to get you to talk
when you don't want to. I haven't had any pressure from that. I've
had a lot of respect in that regards. Um. Um. Yeah,
And I'm not actively searching for it either. So UM. For me,
I prefer to be honest. I prefer for the documentary to come out and
um and from from there, you know. UM, I guess what I
would say is that, you know, it's not just about me. There's
there's a whole sixty two of us that got interviewed for this, you know,
um event, So I always want to you know, recognize the other
children at the same time. Um. Um. And you know, if
if somebody would like to do an interview. Most of the time, I'm
I I'm an anxious person and I don't uh actively look for any other attention
on myself. So I kind of directed towards Randall, um, you know,
to to get the recognition because he has the testimonies of all the children,
you know, so UM, I think that's important that all the voices
get heard, you know, for the the event. But um, I
you know, at some point if somebody wanted to talk to me about my
artwork, you know, or um the experience. Um, after the documentary
you know comes out, that would be something that I may consider, but
I don't actively search for it. Well, you better quit your job and
everything else by that when that comes out, you're gonna be busy, I
think, Um, Randy, do you do we have another caller? Do
you do something to add to that? Uh? Yeah, I just uh,
I've I've tried tried my best to shield the witnesses from the media,
you know, they it's generally even channeled through me. Yeah, and which
is which I took on and just to keep uh you know their privacy and
uh, I've seen you in action, you know, with doing that,
so yeah, you haven't let me had at any of them, hardly,
but anyway we have. Let me just see who we have on the line.
We have Nancy from South Carolina. Welcome to the show. Nancy,
My Nancy, Hi, how are you? Um? Well? Thank you
for calling in. You have a question for directed at one of our guests.
Are both I do. I just wanted to send it out to you
guys. I worked with John mac in Boston for two years, and I
was a psychiatric nurse working in a Boston hospital. And I can't even remember
the circumstances and how I got involved with the whole thing, but I met
with experiencers once a month for two years in a group setting, and probably
it was the most profound, one of the most profound experiences of my life.
And now I'm living in South Carolina and I wanted to start up a
group again to work with experiencers. And I wondered if you had, I
mean, because what you're saying is amazing, and you know, I know
there's so many people out there that have had your experiences in different ways,
and I think this is probably some of the most This is probably the most
important news that's ever come across this planet, and I think it needs to
be strengthened. I think it needs to be debunked. And I want to
again participate in some form of group work with people. And I wondered if
you if that was maybe presumptuous of me to do something like that, or
if you think it's some thing that, um, I could that is important
to do, I would say, and if you had any wisdom on how
I might be able to go about that, because um, as I said,
UM, it's it's a very important work. I really UM understand that
the taboo and all the you know, um judgments around the whole situation,
and it's just a shame. And I think it's time that all of this,
you know, stopped and we just get up front about the whole thing.
So I'll defer you guys, Nancy Nancy before I, UM, I'll
let the others speak. If you would after the show or anytime, email
me at Martin at podcast ufo dot com. I'd like to, um continue
the conversation a little more in this Uh, either Randy or Emily would you
like to would you like to address us. Well, I feel like that
I thank you for that call. I really people that the helpers are really
important. And I've been to several groups through this film, and I met
so many people that are struggling with this, and I think it's so important
to have a place to go and a place where there's no you know,
a place where you can share your story and have your feelings without it being
steered in any direction or having any predetermined decision on what this is all about.
But I think it's really profoundly important that more of the people in psychoanalysis,
psychi psychiatry, psychology are involved because of what it does to the human
being when they see something like that. It's it's not a small experience and
it has ling effects for years, if not decades. And Emily can speak
to that, it's right, yeah, I mean there there's a trauma.
It's it's a trauma that happens, you know, so there's an impact on
the brain and psychology the individual and um, you know, h shapes and
molds them into becoming the person that they are. I've been through a lot
of hyph and lows. It's difficult because you feel sometimes you're isolated, um
and not able to discuss it with anybody without the ridicule and machine and the
stigma and a stereotypes. So you know, there's a mental health teeth to
it as well, and everybody needs somebody to talk to. So it's you
know, it's a wonderful idea. And thank you for calling in. Okay,
your email again, Martin. Yes, it's Martin at podcast UFO dot
com. And I get a ton of spam, so make sure it's a
very clear message in the subject line if you would. Okay, we'll do
all right, Thanks, thanks Nancy. Okay, okay. A question occurred
to me, Emily, and that is, uh, did you was there
at any point and time where you just wanted just to go away and you
wanted to forget about the whole thing and for to go away permanently and you
just not to deal with it anymore? For sure? Yeah, for sure,
I think that's normal though. You know, um, as we were
just discussing, you know, sometimes you just I think as an experiencer,
you're left with questions as well. So those questions are like why me,
you know, and um, you know, at first, when I had
email Randall, I was like I was curious. I was just you know,
like, why are why is my life splashed delivery Internet? Why is
my name being used? Why is why is my image as a child put
being put out there? Like I was curious, you know. So I
wanted it to just disappear, and you know, I wanted to move on.
I wanted to just develop into the adults and um, you know,
focus on my career, and UM, I was I was kind of like,
oh my gosh, this could jeopardize my life, you know. So,
Um, at many points, I've had that kind of love hate relationship
with this experience. Um, but I mean it's it is what it is,
you know. Um, it's it's it's a blessing and it's a bit
of a curse at the same time, and you just have to roll with
it, right. You know, you are saying just exactly what a number
of people have told me that have had, you know, profound experience as
Travis Walton basically. Um. You know, he actually told me in his
own words that he hid from it for a number of years. And you
know, now he's very active and by the way, he should be coming
up parely soon on one of the shows. Um, but uh, you
know, I can definitely understand any any bit of trauma or you know,
people are gonna want to like forget that you know that happened. And of
course the HYMEI. Um, you know, that's probably the number one question
that people might ask themselves in a situation like this. So sure, yeah,
that's that's very true from what I've run across and with all the kids
too. Yeah, that's that's very much. There's a million questions and very
few answers. Randy. While while you're on speaking now, I'm running on
YouTube a slide show of when you were filming in Africa. How long were
you there? How many how many times were you there? And what was
that like? Um, it was a culture shock when I first got there.
Um, you know there's there was machine guns around and security was crazy
and uh um anyway, Uh yeah, it's a it's a it was a
very different world. I was there three times and a total of a year
and four months. Um wow. Uh traveled uh to interview the witnesses that
had seen something before Ariel and uh and then tracking down the kids uh from
the school and some some of the teachers as well. Um and uh yeah,
it was I've seen Zimbabwe and my heart goes out to Zimbabwe because they
have gone through an awful lot and politically and political strife. Um and uh
so I went in two thousand and eight. When I went, there was
political violence and it was actually not recommended by the State Department that I go.
A matter of fact, I shouldn't have gone. But the second time
I went, it was much better. And then the third time I went
it was it was good, but the economy was starting to tank again and
now it's in shambles once again. Um but yeah, I mean just going
to Africa. I'm you know, I'm a small town guy that grew up
in a town of eight hundred people. Uh to go to Africa was was
a was a huge step for It was a huge risk for me because and
and a huge step. But I was so determined that of finding the school
and finding out more about this incident because I knew over time that this was
something that was really significant. Yeah and uh yeah, so it was.
It was a a labor of love. Yes, I'm sure. And I,
like I mentioned before earlier, I've seen your wildlife, your African wildlife
images online. I suggest anyone that loves nature and uh African wildlife to check
out those photos. Those are just excellent. Uh yeah, we do have
a caller. We have a Clark. He's calling in from Tennessee. Clark,
welcome to the show. Hey, thanks a lot, it's good to
talk to you guys. Everyone silently. I was a big fan of the
show. And and actually I think Randall we have communicated through emails and there,
and and I congratulations on both of your work and getting the hope that
gets gets out there and gets a lot of highs because of the looks very
interesting. And I actually I actually yeah, growing up I'm riginally from North
Carolina moved here to Tennessee. But growing up I would watch all kinds of
shades of documentaries based on the subject. So you and it's good to see
it seems like the last over the last like five six years, uh you
know said the subject has gotten some better light on it. Now it's there's
more, um, just the material alone and the evidence that seems to be
h presenting itself. It's just fascinating and um and it's it's good to see.
And uh and I had I had the privilege to and honor to work
with helped James fox Um a little bit on his newest project, and I
helped and I did some sound work for Dave Beatty on his NIMTS document and
uh and as a filmmaker, this is you don't have to spend a lot
of time on this, but it's it might be a bore the listeners to
tears, but uh what I mean, I know the process take taking that
long. What was your you know, over the with the change in technology,
you know what you know, it would just be interesting to hear just
a brief runover of what uh you know, what cameras you were using and
specifically you know, because I know you have to maintain some kind of consistency,
but but also what you ultimately uh finished your work with if you're as
far as on the editing side, because it's it's uh, it's just that
the whole process is uh is like you say, it's a labor of love.
And when you get into it and get your hands on, you're on
the field and working with the material uh that you really love. It's it's
just the ultimate payoffs is is doing what you're doing. And would yeah,
if you uh have the time to talk about just a little bit of the
process and you go to cameras and what she finished with, Yeah, I
shot. Thanks for the question, then, Uh yeah, I'm sure if
I racked my memory, I'll remember where we met. But I we finished
the film out in Da Vinci and sound Pro tools and edited in Premiere and
we edited in Final Cut seven point three, which is a really great program
but a little outdated, and we had about yeah, six or seven go
to cameras. When I initially started, I was shooting on tape. And
you're right, the technology drastically started to change and stay with you know,
when Facebook. Actually I wouldn't have probably gotten in touch with a lot of
these witnesses if it wasn't for the technology of Facebook at that time. But
yeah, we we have had to adjust to, uh the technology evolving,
and there's some great tools now that have really helped um the quality of the
film itself. Um, you know terrannexing all the I'm sure you're familiar with
that term, Uh, all the all the archival and um, you know,
really cleaning things up, not to take the real away, but to
just take anything that's uh you know, just tracting away. But yeah,
I hate the call because there. There is a whole technical side that people
don't understand or don't think about so much that I've had to deal with,
and I'm sure you've had to deal with where you have to, you know,
get the best equipment you can and uh and um make the best of
it. Yeah, and that happened here. Yeah. Well, hey,
thank you for the call. Yeah, thank you. Good luck with everything,
all right? Thanks, our eyes were glazing over right, Emily,
just a little bit, all right, guys the tech side. Yeah,
that's okay. So anyone, anyone can call in. The phone number is
eight five five four seven two five four eight three. Well, I'm going
to ask a question, you know, sort of along those lines, but
but not in the tech part. I just want to ask you what the
hardest part of making this film was. Um. The hardest part has been
uh um, having no time to really think or have a life. So
this has been my life for ten years. And when when I completed the
film with the crew, um, uh I started to remember, it was
just weird. It was like, all of a sudden, I was back
in two thousand and eight when I started, and having memories from two thousand
and eight, I'm like, oh, my god, it was just like
a it was. It was quite a process that I went through and I
it was like where I left off. I. Once I got started on
this, I just didn't stop. And um, so it's been a process.
I mean some of the hardest things were danger dangerous things that I you
know, going to interview people in Africa in some very very not so good
places. Um. And that happened several times and actually in a good way.
It actually grew me as a man as far as Okay, you know,
when you're in those situations, you just gotta you've got to you've got
to be a man, and you've got to stick it out. And so
yeah, they're the most difficult part. Boy, there were so many,
but it was all worth it. But uh, um and um just you
know, the all the behind the scenes work of tracking down all the material,
archival and all that, that was another whole thing. But I think
out in the field was was some of my most difficult. Yeah. Right,
I guess I'll ask you what was your favorite part about making this film?
Um, meeting the people who this happened to, meeting Emily, meeting
Emma Salma. I mean there's a forty or forty three people that I sat
with, and UM, I think that was it. And and the people
Judy and the staff at Aerial School and they're just amazing, UM, giving
and helping. UM and the people I work with. I you know,
I tend to do projects alone generally, you know, in the past I
have and to bring on the crew that I had was a great growing experience
for me to to really work and collaborate with five other people that helped me
grow a lot. And UM, and I know it helped the film enormously
to have such talented people working with me. And so yeah, it's it's
the part that I really love was is just being able to tell this story
in the in the in the best way possible, but also working with all
these people and getting to know them and their lives and understanding them. Yeah,
that's all I can say. Yeah, that's great. We have John
calling from Florida. I believe it's John. Let me take a look.
Welcome to the show. Yes, how are you doing? It? Is
John? Right? Yes, it is that's right, John. Thanks for
the call. You have a question for one of our guests? Are both
yes, yes, Actually I have a two prong questions first, I want
to just say this is amazing. I only just learned about this yesterday,
and I've been seeing the clips and the trailers and actually ended up getting up
in the middle of the night and couldn't stop thinking about the whole incident.
So wow, Yeah, it does have that effect. I mean, the
first time I ever saw footage of John mac interviewing these children, it was
it was moving, it was it was an experience for that, you know,
really had me thinking really deeply. Yes, yes, exactly. And
and I, like Emily, I grew up overseas ten years of my life
as a third culture kid they call him. And I was just feeling like
her experience of being over there, and she talked about a culture shock coming
back, and then here she's got two culture two shocks in her life because
of the incident. And so two questions once, just really brief. How
tall were the aliens? So they were about three and a half to four
feet tall, and I see that because they were in comparison to around my
height as a child. Okay, well you were actually to sort of seed
directly into their eyes because of the height thing. Yes, we're we're we're
all of the same height. Or were the different heights. Um. I
can't speak for anybody else, but the ones that I saw were um like
identical in height. That's interesting. And my second question is has this changed
your view of spirituality over time? And what Well, you don't have to
share it listening, have anything to share it? Yeah, it definitely UM
opened my eyes. My parents work for the Selvish Army and so we were
missionaries overseas for the Salvation Army. And I still have a faith in God,
and I think, um, that's going to be something that's covered in
the documentary film as well, where um, most of the children still have
a faith in a comprehension and understanding of God, but we also have a
comprehension and an understanding of another creature. Yeah, to include that. So
so in a sense you could say your view of God in the sense of
maybe well, I know as a child or changes or maybe changes over it
has a change somewhat then that view of what is God? Yeah. I
went through a bit of a rebel stage in my life where I actually stopped
going to the church because I didn't understand how it all fit, and so
I took a step back from spirituality in my life for quite some time,
and I mean I always it was always near, and it was always prevalent
as to what I would say, being a spiritual person and growing up with
some morals, ethics and values and belief. But there was a time in
my life where I did take a step back, and then I had another
couple of experiences which actually brought me back to my faith. So it was
a bit of a journey. Wow, hey we have We're running out of
time rather quickly here, So thanks for the call, John, and we
have another call. We have a call. Thank you. And I do
want to tell the the YouTuber out there, anyone on YouTube. When we
end the show tonight, we're going to play that trailer by Gola. You're
going to get to watch that trailer. So we do have another caller,
and this star last caller for the night. We have Andy, Welcome to
the show from Connecticut. Thank you very much. I realized this is very
much of a human story. But I am curious to ask what if any
physical or trace evidence was seen or gathered at the landing site after the Internet
occurred. I'm wondering if any of the older children walked, any of the
teachers out to the site either later that day or the next day. Any
comment there, good question. Yeah, the site was looked at on Basically
the teachers had kept everybody away from the site and then Cynthia Hind had brought
in a specialist that she had worked with with the Geiger counter and all kinds
of other different devices. They took soil samples from five different sites. Nothing
came back positive as far as unusual anything unusual. There was a part of
the grant, the long grass that was seemed to be blown down in almost
like an old horseshoe shape in a way where that this thing was first sighted.
So as far as tangible, scientifically provable evidence on that, there was
nothing revealed. But the work was done. But we don't know, you
know, a lot times we don't know what energies or what what we're dealing
with, what what, what kind of trace traces would be left. Um,
it really depends on their technology and how it was employed at the time.
If that if this, if that's the case. Um, so that's
all I have to say about that. But it's a very good question.
And uh um, yeah, it's definitely something we cover in the film.
Also, Andy, thank you we're going to have to cut it now,
so I do appreciate the call um Emily for you approximately what I guess.
I guess the screener took that seriously, So the call is gone. I'm
sorry about that. Andy. Uh. We still have our guests on though,
right yep, yeah, okay, so yeah, we're at the end
of the show, and I do want to thank you so much. I
really really enjoyed tonight's show. I hope you did too. Yeah, thank
you, Martin, thank you, yes, thank you Martin. And check
out the site at Serial phenomenon dot com and we appreciate any support people can
give us and any suggestions. We're open and the film is coming soon.
That's great. All right, I'm going to say good night to you two,
and I really want to thank you so much. Thank you, Emily,
thank you, You're welcome. Okay, thank you, all right,
all right, we'll talk to you soon. Yeah, all right, take
care of ye bye, so as you. I am so much looking forward
to this, uh, this show coming out, and please please keep you
know, checking that out and you will see the show coming on my website.
I have a banner there and you can keep in touch just by clicking
there. Next week we have Rob Shelley coming on the show, and stay
in there on YouTube. We are going to play the trailer for you now
and remember to keep your eyes to the sky. And hundreds of people today
phoned is it BCA saying they sighted an unidentifying flying object with a bright radium
life. I've never seen anything like it in my life. Some noise I
didn't like. People from all over Zimbabwe were faring the BBC to say we've
seen something weird. There were three of us, said sort myself, the
co pilot and the pilot in another aircraft. Nor wins no nothing shining aial
school, nineteenth September ninety four, Could you tell me what you saw on
Friday? The silver thing in amongst this clump of trees. We saw the
black figure running. His face was like this and his eyes were down here.
I just thought it was some kind of alium from a different He looked
at those children, they were absolutely credible and whereabouts was it? And the
trees? Over day there was a big group of kids appointing and making a
noise and shouting and screaming. The panic spread. Am I safe or am
I not safe? He's a Harvard zygiadress meeting doctor John mac We came away
convinced that an extraordinary event occurred here. I think they want people to know
that we're actually making harm on world. How did that get communicated to you?
It cames to my head somehow. There was a message about pollution from
the way he was staring. I was just a part of journalist. I
could handle wars, but I could not handle this UF anything. I mean,
I never felt this could derail my career. Angels, yes, extraterrestrials.
No, John is lost at this time. This journey is literally to
pick up the pieces and put them back together. Oh my gosh. I
was reading on the logs when it actually happens, finding it good. Get
something that I'll never ever forget. I've drawn off again. That's I usually
kept it quiet. People think you're crazy. You feel so low in society.
Why is it we tend to want to shrink this powerful phenomenon to our
notions of reality, rather than being able to stretch ourselves to expand what we
know and to admit that we don't know. Would you like to see him
again? And if you saw him again, what would you do? I'll
ask him, some Christians, would you like to ask him? I'll ask
him what does he doing on earth? And what does he want christ Us