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Hello, and welcome to Open minds
UFO Radio. I'm your host, Alejandro

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Rojas, and I have our news. Dude. Uh Martin, I'm gonna

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use it again Jet Saton Willis because
he's out there in a different Eastern European

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country this week, right, I
am. Yeah, it's it's asked me

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if I was making a world tour. Not exactly. No, in Russia

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last week and in Austria. Vienna, Austria just arrived. So I'm in

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a little little flat and I can't
to check out the city tomorrow. Yeah,

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a lot of fun. So we'll
get into some UFO news for those

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of you are news. I've been
posting the show on YouTube and some people

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are like, they don't even start
hanging out uf I was for a few

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minutes. It's true. But you
know, Martin and I like to talk

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about our lives for a minute because
we're the house, and I think and

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our listeners have expressed that they're interested
in our lives, and it's very interesting

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that you're in Vienna. So we're
going to talk about that just for a

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minute. If you want to fast
forward the video, that's fine. That's

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the only that. But we got
to talk about it because I was in

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Hungry not too long ago, of
course, for that National Geographic Mars thing,

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and I heard people were saying because
Hungary is fun. I mean it's

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for kid it's mostly twenty somethings,
and there's lots of rundown. They even

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have places they have these things called
ruin bars where it's like in uh these

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ruins I mean literally these are like
town homes or something that are just like

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you know, just old and falling
apart or something, but they use it

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to put a bar in it.
So it's lots of fun and stuff.

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But I heard Vienna is like Budapest, but nicer, like everything's clean and

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kept up and restored. Well everything
is so everything is beautiful, I will

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tell you, though, there is
major graffiti here. Really, yeah,

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all these beautiful buildings. Unfortunately I
noticed them. Now maybe just the part

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of town that I came in in
the taxi, I'm not sure, but

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these beautiful buildings of graffiti all over
them. It's really a shame. Oh

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that is too bad. There of
course is a lot of that in Budapest,

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but like I said, there's for
the most part, lots of older

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stuff that's kind of not as well
kept Now there are parts of the neighborhoods

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and stuff that are really nice.
It's still all nice. It's all fun

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and amazing. But uh, that's
interesting to hear. And next week,

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I guess when you have more time, because did you just get there just

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here a couple of hours ago.
But I did go into a restaurant.

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The people are very friendly English.
That was that was nice. Yeah,

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to be able to communicate with someone
because insha, the place that I was

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in Russia, nobody speaks English at
all, so and I know five words

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in Russian, you know not so
it's tough. But here it's I think

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it's gonna be a lot better.
It's gonna be a lot of fun.

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Uh huh cool. Cool. Well, I think that's fun too, because

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it's fun that you and I get
to do some traveling and to the listeners

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get to kind of live vicariously through
us a bit. I know, I

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love to do that through you.
It's exciting to hear that you're you know,

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somewhere else. Yeah, you do
travel a lot. I'm often vious

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of you. And tomorrow I'm going
to be doing my show. If you

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don't mind to do a little quick
plug Uh, well, I have Jare

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morbell on for the first part of
the show, but the second part is

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with Duardo Lobo and he made you
a wonderful comic cover. Yes, yeah,

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he made me one as well,
and so it's been he was really

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into the topic. So he's going
to be on part of my show right

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here in the studio. He lived
in Vienna, so he's coming in on

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the studio, I should say the
flat. He's coming in. We're going

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to do a show together. And
he's been, you know, been looking

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at Austria UFOs forever, so we're
going to be talking about that, which

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will be exciting. I'm want to
be able to do that. That is

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so cool. That is really exciting. And for people who are watching on

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YouTube. Right below the video is
are some T shirts and you could see

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there and some of those T shirts
are the poster that what that he created.

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Is that how you say his name? Well, he just he always

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said Eduardo the easiest column Eduardo.
Okay, So yeah, he created that

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poster, which is super cool.
I love it. You can get stickers

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or what have you also of the
posters, so check that out below video.

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If you're listening, you have to
go to Openminds dot tv and click

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on that link, that big T
shirt link, and you'll be able to

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take a look and get a poster
T shirt. I think people have already

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gotten some, and they love him
because the Yeah, he's a great artist.

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So that is so exciting that you
get to meet him. Definitely tell

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him hello, and I will I
along with you. And I think Ryan

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Sprague he made one for it too. We're also grateful for his excellent work.

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I know, it's amazing. Would
they look so authentic, you know,

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like in such a nice Yeah,
they look like comic book posters.

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Yeah, so cool. He's very
talented. And it's funny because I used

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to We used him all over the
place and he was so flattered. He's

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like, oh, I'm glad you
little bit, thank you for using it

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here and there, and it's like, are you kidding? It's awesome.

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Okay, So I guess I guess
I'll talk about my guest and then we'll

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get into the UFO news. The
guests sport of today is David Marler,

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best known for his book on triangular
UFOs, but he is an excellent,

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absolutely fabulous researcher. If he talks
about any case, you know, he's

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done some very thorough and original research
on it, and that's essentially what we're

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talking about. Here is one that
we're both going to be at this Devil's

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Tower UFO event, the UFO Rendezvous
that is September thirteenth through the fifteenth.

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We'll be speaking there. He and
I, I think are the only two

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with two talks each. But we
also talked about our methods of you know,

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really deep diving into these cases to
investigate them and bring out information that

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people haven't heard before. So he
and I talked about why that's important,

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the importance of credibility when it comes
to researching the UFO field. So I

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loved it was a wonderful conversation.
These conversations they feel like they go by

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in a couple of minutes, especially
conversations like this, But this is one

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of them where I felt like I
often feel like this, but you know,

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I felt that I walked away really
learning something and being charged up about

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this field. Well, you know, David has a way of doing everything

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you just said. First of all, the last time I talked to him,

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he was on just an hour by
himself, and then I had Lee

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and James fox On. But I
mean that went by, like you said,

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so fast. Yeah, he's definitely
top shelf. I loved David Marley's

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awesome. Yep, he's great looking
for listening. Yes, it's gonna be

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a lot of fun. And then
one more thing before we're done. I've

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got a Patreon account up now and
I linked to it, of course in

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the show notes and then the YouTube
video notes. And I want to say

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quick shout out to my new Patreon
followers, So thank you so much to

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Andrew Ross, to James, to
Joseph Hallett, who is one of my

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very first I think it was the
second, but the first. You know,

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I have these levels. I have
Patreon Crew, which is the first

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level. It's only like a buck, you know, the lowest one,

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which is fine. Oh my gosh. I love those people who are at

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that level. But Joseph, he
like joined at the top level, so

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he rocks. Thank you so much. And then let's see who else I

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got. I got Ryan, and
that is Ryan Sprague. We patroon each

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other, and then Amy Brooks is
my new one. So thank you so

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much to Amy and Ryan and Joseph
and James and all of you. For

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following, and it really helps out
because, as you know, Martin,

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you know, this is expensive.
We got to buy equipment, we have

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to travel to parts known just to
interview the people who we want to meet.

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Just kidding. Of course, we're
traveling for other reasons as well,

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but it really helps us out.
So we could keep going because I know,

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you know, I'm sporadic at least
have been on the past with material

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getting material out, and I've refocused
in the last couple of months and regularly

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getting a show and my new YouTube
live show rolling and on a regular basis,

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I'm going to be doing new and
better videos, probably some sponsored videos

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too. I'm seeking sponsors and I
got some sponsorships here in the wings.

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But so we could keep providing content
because it's a lot of fun. Yeah,

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yeah, I know, it's not
like you know, you always hear

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people say, oh, do you
do this for money or whatever? I

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know you do this for money.
I don't do it for money. My

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show was costing me money and so
it I'm grateful for my orders as well.

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So I mean, yeah, because
it does you know, we we

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do put a lot of time effort
in it, but that aside, you

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know, it's it's good to have
support. Really really is very well.

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So someone can find Patreon link on
your web where is really fine, It'll

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be in my show notes that Open
mind stat tv on my description all over

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the place and link's all over the
place, or you just look up all

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the Hanjo Rojas at Patreon. So
plus you could get all my material there,

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so all the different stuff I put
there. So it's a good place

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to get everything that I'm doing also, so check it out. So let's

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get into some UFO news, my
friend, what you got for us?

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All right? On the Big think
dot com website, story by Paul rat

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Is, we live in a dumbie
galaxy that died and back to life claims

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to study just the title. I
sold on as soon as I saw the

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title, do you know what?
I haven't read this? I saw that

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title. I thought it was really
cool too. I didn't know what the

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heck they were talking about, so
I'm really interested to hear about this.

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Well, basically, we live inside
a galaxy, a galaxy wide zong.

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Now this is according to a fascinating
new study. Galaxy the Milky Way has

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apparently had quite an eventful life,
dying once before according to calculations by the

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Japanese astronomer Massufimi Noguchi of Tokyo University
University. I didn't mess up his name

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too bad, Oh, I'm sure
you said it perfectly. No, Gucci

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looked at the history of the milky
over period of ten billion years. He

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didn't physically look at it for ten
billion years, you know what I'm saying.

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And he wanted to explain the mystery
of why the stars in the Milky

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Week can be split into those that
are rich in the alpha element oxygen silicon

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magnxium and those that are over with
iron. The astronomy created a model that

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shows the existence two separate periods of
starmation the model. The model utilized the

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theory of cold flow excretion proposed in
two thousand and six by A. Vicia

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Deck and his colleagues from the university. Also central to the model of the

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facts and the chemical position of stars
can tell about the gases that formed in

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stars essentially memorize the amount of elements
at the time they were being created.

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That makes total sense. So Nogucci
showed that during the first period of formation,

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streams of cold gas came into the
galaxy from the outside, leading to

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the creation of the first stars.
Fast forward a few million years and some

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of these stars exploded as sup the
nova's creating a large were of alpha elements.

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These in turn made their way in
gas and got incorporated into other stars.

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But around seven billion years ago,
shockwave heeded the gas so much that's

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flow into our galaxy stopped. That's
also ces starvation process for the next two

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billion years. So this moment period
was notable for a long lived star explosion

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which pumped iron into gas, changing
its composition, and about five billion years

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of the gas cooled enough and second
generation of stars start to form, and

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that includes our on. This new
of celestial objects was also richer and iron.

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So this is all really quite you
know, goes on. It's a

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great article, like anyone can check
it out, but it gone to you

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know, basically get more into the
details of it. Yeah, I think

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we got a lot of details with
that, some of the iron and the

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gases and stuff like that. But
the iron's good for building bones too,

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It's important for human that's right.
I know, it's interesting. That's really

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fine. Sing that a great saying
that Carl Sagan had this great saying,

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like something like the universe had to
happen in order to have all the ingredients

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of an outpie or something like that. Did you ever hear that one?

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Oh that's funny. No I didn't, But that's interesting. That's a good

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comment. I like it. Segan's
a pretty pretty cool dude. So all

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right, yeah, interesting, So
we're living in a zombie galaxy. What

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else you got? That's it for
right now? Okay. A couple of

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things that I would like to mention
are, uh, these extraterrestrial posters.

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So I wrote about this and oh
yeah, these are a lot of fun,

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and it's surprising that they did this, and they're kind of doing it

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on the down low. So ORBIT
created this extraterrestrial tourism page and on it

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they put up a bunch of posters. So you may remember, not too

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long ago, well actually it was
now maybe two or three years ago,

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NASA created these fun space tourism posters
about the future and how we'll visit different

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planets, and they were awesome and
people downloaded them and hung them up.

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I've done so myself. Actually,
they're really cool. So Orbit has kind

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of done the same thing. They've
created these posters and you can go and

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download these posters and they're really cool. So I've got a story on Den

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of Geek. I've also got an
Openminds dot tv a story. And actually

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this is a bit of an exclusive
for us because open Orbits got a hold

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of me and asked me if we
wanted to write about these and I said,

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heck, yeah, these are awesome. So I've created this, you

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know, these stories, so people
could check it out. But these things

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span from like ancient Egypt up to
the current day, so they've got a

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lot of ancient Aliens type of stuff
in here. But these posters are really

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cool. You can print them up
and hang them up. They're really neat

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Here's what the website reads. It
says, we are not alone. Reports

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of UFO sightings and encounters of the
first, second, and third kind date

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back to ancient Egypt and continue throughout
the course of history. The truth is

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out there. That's a new term, like the truth is out there.

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Everybody's using it, at least in
the mainstream, you know. And I

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think, of course it's from the
X files, but John Podesta, who

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ran Hillary Clinton's campaign, used it
a lot too, and I think that's

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really helped it get out there,
So these are super super cool. Obviously

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those I did. I actually share
the article on the Facebook page. Yeah,

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they're really great graphics. Yeah,
they're so cool. It's really neat

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that they did it. I think
it's cool and it's funny because I've posted

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stuff about it, but they haven't
really been pushing yet. You know that

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if you go to their front page
or web page, they haven't really push

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it there. I think they kind
of did it for fun and then hoped

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the community would pick up. I
don't know who else they approached, but

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I haven't seen anybody else really writing
about it. So they're super cool.

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So it's kind of an open Minds
exclusive. That's neat, that's right of

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that. Otherwise, Hunt for the
Skinwalker, of course, is coming up.

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You're gonna have Jeremy on your show
tomorrow. I will have some exclusive

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interviews with Jeremy coming up as well
in relation to the premiere. But a

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different writer at Dan of Geek wrote
a story on that so people can watch

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it, but we're also going to
have it in our magazine. I wrote

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a longer piece for the magazine that's
gonna really get in depth into some of

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the secrets that Jeremy is going to
be revealing, which is that the government,

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you know, had a hand in
the investigation of the Skinwalker Ranch,

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something we did not know and which
wasn't in the book for a Skinwalker Ranch

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because it couldn't because it was a
secret thing. So we'll learn more about

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that in his movie. Unfortunately,
you know, some of you make it

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upset, but it is the way
it is. The San Diego had a

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UFO setting made a bunch of news
it was flares. It was flares.

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I mean I saw it and I'm
like, that's flares. A lot of

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people are like, no, it's
not flares. Well, if you go

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to the Open Mind UFO group.
Of course, there was a heated debate

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about it, but many of us
did post pictures of flares, including me,

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I've got video flares and you know
what, guys, it's flares.

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I have another one though, go
ahead, just on the on the subject

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of flares, I totally get why
someone can first think if they're actually it's

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kind of like Chinese lanterns. Saw
them exactly, Yeah, me too,

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exactly both on both points. The
first time you see either of these phenomena,

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it's like WHOA. When I first
saw videos of the flares, I

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thought they're there's no way those are
flares because they're hanging in the air.

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They don't look like they're falling,
there's no smoke, and people were taking

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these videos fround Phoenix, which is
like eighty miles away from where these flares

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are allegedly dropped. But when I
moved out here, sure enough, I

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not only confirmed it with the military
there on several occasions, but I just

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witnessed it on a regular basis,
and it's amazing. They're so bright and

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they fall so incredibly slowly that when
you're very far away, it looks like

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they're standing still. It doesn't look
like they're flickering. You don't see any

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smoke. It's just one bright light, and they're dropped by jets that have

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their lights off. They're just using
their ir lights so they can't be seen.

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So now I could see how people
would be fooled. I was too,

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but you know, take it from
those of us who have a lot

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of experience with this. Unfortunately,
those were flares, for better or worse.

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I think one of the reasons they
look like they're not going anywhere is

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just what you said. You can
see them from so far away that that

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distance makes them look like they're moving. If they are moving at all,

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it's very slowly. Yeah, So
I want to mention a couple more one

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of them. I'm just going to
mention lightly because we've talked about this before.

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But more news about that lady in
Florida who was running for Congress,

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who has you know, in this
Spanish television news program, she talked about

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how she was abducted by aliens when
she was a kid, and she's that

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was drudged up, you know,
even though it was in Spanish. So

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now everybody's always asking her about it. She stands by it, and she

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says, look, this was what
I experienced, but that doesn't shape who

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I am, even though I feel
like this is what happened. So there's

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more news about that out there.
But I want to ask you about this

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one because this one's making some news
out there, and this is pretty fun.

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This gentleman in Argentina. So people
saw on Google Earth this weird shape,

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this kind of star like shape,
it out in the desert in Argentina,

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and so the news, you know, went to go check it out.

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Sure enough, there's this circular thing. People thought what is that a

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UFO landing pad. Well, they
interviewed the person who put it up on

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his property and he said, yeah, that's exactly what it is, a

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UFO landing pad. The aliens talked
to me and told me to build its

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landing pad. So I did,
and hopefully one day they're going to come

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land here. So really interesting,
funny story. And it's funny that.

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You know, many times when people
spot something weird on Google Space, it

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has nothing to do with UFOs and
aliens, but this one actually is an

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alien landing pad. Have you seen
that? No? I haven't. I

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was just looking for it's kind of
maybe like, well, you know,

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no, Noah is building the arc
is that what? Oh right right?

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Yeah, yeah, wow, amazing. Build it and they will check it

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up. It's really cool. No, no, you're right. You do

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get a lotable that will send you
stuff from Google Earth and other Google maps

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and all that stuff. You know. Then a lot of times like lens

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flares and stuff like that, but
some of them are like pretty interesting looking.

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Yeah, sometimes they are, and
people get frustrated because you're like,

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ooh, I don't know what this
is and when if it's really mysterious I'll

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try to post it and get some
feedback, especially for Mark D'Antonio, and

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I've done that for people too who
are like, what is this and I

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will tell them here's what I think. But I'll see if I could get

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out there and put as well.
But yeah, this one's fun because it's

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a really pretty shape. Of course, if you go to openmindstat TV,

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you're going to see this in the
UFO headline. So do that though in

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the next couple of days because I'll
be changing those headlines tomorrow because I always

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update those before my UFO Life program, which is Tuesday evenings at six pm

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Pacific on Open Minds Live or YouTube
page. But you can always see those

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headlines. I think this is one
of the coolest resources we have. If

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you go to articles and you go
to daily UFO headlines, you're going to

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see all of the headlines that we've
been sharing with people going back for years.

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So I think it's a great resource
that you can just go to this

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page and like on the front page, you go all the way from now

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back to like April so and all
of these headlines you could see and it's

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amazing, you know, Like my
UFO Live is mostly about UFO news,

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and there's a lot of UFO news
on a weekly basis. Well, you

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know, we do the once a
year year in review. I tend use

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your website in that way you're talking
about and go back through the year and

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see what's not just the stories that
you've written about, but all day.

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It's a very good resource. Yep, that's exactly what I do. Thank

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you very much for saying that as
well. But we are about out of

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time. Let's see if there's one
more. Jupiter may have water, that's

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what they were looking at. But
it's amazing. The other one is the

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Luise Alizondo video from his symposium talk
was posted by to the Stars, So

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go check that out. That's really
cool. But we're pretty much out of

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time, Martin, I see that, well, thank you Martin. Check

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him out at podcast UFO. Otherwise, let's go ahead and do you want

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00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:44.160
to say last goodbye? There?
Goodbye everybody. Let's go ahead and listen

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to Dave David Marler right after this
short break. I am super duper happy

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to welcome back to the show my
good friend David Marler. Hello, mister

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Marler, how are you doing?
Alejandro? Good good? This is fun

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too, because I can see you, you can't see me. I'm the

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camera. I wasn't sure if we
were doing video or audio, so there

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you go. Yeah, we're gonna
do strictly audio. But I like seeing

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you. It's fun, and it's
even more kind of fun that you can't

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see me. But yeah, we
were just talking about we're doing this in

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the morning, and this may be
my first interview without coffee having had coffee,

329
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because I just got up and we're
doing this and so we'll see how

330
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it goes. But for okay,
we've already talked about what you do.

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But what's exciting is that you and
I will be together with some of our

332
00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:10.799
friends and fellow researchers in Wyoming here
soon. Absolutely looking forward to it.

333
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M hm. And you like me, so you probably feel how I felt

334
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last year because I am Close Encounters
is everything to me. I mean,

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it's just there's so many connections and
different things and thoughts. I love Close

336
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Encounters and so my first visit to
the tower, and just so you know,

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it was everything I had hoped.
I mean, this thing is so

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great, so cool. You're feeling
pretty excited about it, huh, I'm

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00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:42.480
very excited. In fact, I
was just remarking to a friend the other

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day. I said, when I
was ten years old and went to the

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theatrical release of Close Encounters, I
never would have thought fast forward forty years

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and I would not only be going
to Devil's Tower, but going to Devil's

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Tower to lecture as a UFO researcher. If you would go back and tell

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that's boy that, I would not
believe you. You know what's funny I

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would have I would have been like, cool, if I was a ten

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year old, that'll be awesome.
And then when I got into college and

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first really was a journalism major and
heard about UFOs, I was like,

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this stuff's kind of goofy. So
it's kind of funny. If you would

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have told me that in college,
I would have said, yeah, right

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where I would have thought, what
a failure I'm going to turn out to

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be? Well, I was gonna
say, for you and some of your

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00:27:23.839 --> 00:27:26.279
audience that have been around for a
while, as well as myself, there

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is a lot of craziness in this
field as well. Yeah, but not

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at this event. At the what
at the Devil's Tower. I think the

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lineup is great. Of course they're
going to have Lee Spiegel to bring it

356
00:27:38.839 --> 00:27:42.079
out from New York or good buddy
Mark dey Antonio, who's always awesome.

357
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My girlfriend Karen is going to do
her first talk, which I'm looking forward

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00:27:47.559 --> 00:27:49.480
to attending. Actually, yeah,
that's going to be fun. It's going

359
00:27:49.559 --> 00:27:57.119
to be on very you know,
uh, like abduction cases, mass abduction

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cases mostly, but good ones,
credible once absolutely. And what's fun about

361
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this event? It's so small,
so intimate. You know, we all

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00:28:04.599 --> 00:28:08.759
get to see each other's talks,
which is really rare at events and always

363
00:28:08.839 --> 00:28:15.200
fun exactly. And I, you
know, I learn as much from you

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as hopefully you learn from me in
these lectures, and like you said,

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having that intimate environment not only for
the researchers, but as you were alluding

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to before we started the interview,
it's a very small audience relatively speaking compared

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to what we're may be used to
in some of the larger venues, which

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affords you the opportunity to actually interact
both before and after your lectures with every

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audience member, which sometimes you don't
have that luxury mm hmm exactly. When

370
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it comes to close encounters, what
does close encounters mean to you? It

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means several things. Actually. First
off, let me just say, as

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far as movie making goes, I
think it's an absolute gem. I didn't

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really appreciate the movie is fully when
I was younger watching it until after I

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got involved in UFO research. And
I think you'll agree with your experience in

375
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this field, your diverse experience.
The character of Richard Dreyfus exemplifies real UFO

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00:29:15.640 --> 00:29:21.240
witnesses that you and I have interviewed
over the years, where they never gave

377
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a thought to UFOs and suddenly they're
confronted with something completely outside their reality,

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and it's a paradigm shift. It
completely pulls the carpet out from under their

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concept of what reality is. And
you see that play out in the characters

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of Richard Dreyfus and Terry Garr where
Terry did not experience this sighting that Richard

381
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Dreyfus had that close encounter, and
so she could not either. She could

382
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try to sympathize, but she couldn't
empathize with the character of Richard Dreyfuss.

383
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And I've interviewed men and women who
have told me what I'm telling you.

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I have never told my wife or
what I'm telling you I've never told my

385
00:30:00.440 --> 00:30:04.519
husband because I know he or she
couldn't understand what I'm dealing with or what

386
00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:10.480
I'm going through. And it really
typifies the fact that these true close encounters,

387
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not the distant lights high up in
the sky, but true close encounter

388
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cases. Using the definition that Heine
coined, it really is a life changing

389
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moment. I would almost say it
borders on the spiritual to some extent,

390
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because suddenly their reality is opened up
to a larger, grander reality. And

391
00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:33.480
as you and I have known many
people in this field, the reason they're

392
00:30:33.480 --> 00:30:38.359
here is because they had an experience
or a siting themselves. So the movie,

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00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:45.720
although it's fiction, really demonstrates the
emotional, the human impact that these

394
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sightings sometimes have. I think you're
exactly right. And you know what's interesting

395
00:30:51.160 --> 00:30:56.720
about that movie too, is the
more I've gotten into this arena, because

396
00:30:56.079 --> 00:31:00.359
even though, like I said,
when I was a journalism major in college

397
00:31:00.400 --> 00:31:04.759
at the beginning, I was like
really skeptical of the whole arena, as

398
00:31:04.799 --> 00:31:11.200
you look into it more and more
the movie, I've always been extremely excited

399
00:31:11.240 --> 00:31:15.480
about the movie, but it becomes
more and more important because, like you

400
00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:18.920
said, it really fits our experiences
and the experiences of the people who are

401
00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:26.240
having these encounters. And sometimes I
think as a researcher, I would probably

402
00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:30.079
say collectively we all are guilty of
this, not in an intentional way by

403
00:31:30.119 --> 00:31:34.200
any means, but myself. Sometimes
we get up and we do our lectures

404
00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:40.880
and we talk about dates, places
in persons, but sometimes in the course

405
00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:45.000
of that we lose sight of the
fact that there is that emotional component.

406
00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:49.400
I mean, these events in many
cases are life changing. I mean,

407
00:31:49.960 --> 00:31:55.039
we've talked to people that have had
sightings decades ago, but they can close

408
00:31:55.119 --> 00:31:57.880
their eyes and the goosebumps still come
up on their arm when they relive and

409
00:31:57.920 --> 00:32:02.279
remember this. In fact, just
to bring it to a personal note,

410
00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:07.839
my sister who had a close encounter
in nineteen seventy seven outside Kansas City,

411
00:32:07.839 --> 00:32:10.519
Missouri, which I wrote about in
my book. She was at Open Minds

412
00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:15.359
with me a few years back,
and she's actually coming out to Devil's Tower

413
00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:20.079
this year as well. And it
was her sighting in seventy seven, in

414
00:32:20.079 --> 00:32:22.079
addition to a number of other things
that got me interested in the subject.

415
00:32:22.519 --> 00:32:27.960
I didn't have a UFO siding,
but hearing about hers year after year and

416
00:32:28.119 --> 00:32:34.079
the emotion that evoked with her and
her husband, and only probably until about

417
00:32:34.119 --> 00:32:37.839
ten or twelve years ago did her
husband even openly talk about it, because

418
00:32:37.279 --> 00:32:40.880
he didn't like anything paranormal. You
talk about ghosts, UFOs, he would

419
00:32:40.880 --> 00:32:45.319
walk out of the room back in
the eighties, but after this sighting,

420
00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:50.400
he especially didn't want to talk about
it, and so he was terrified of

421
00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:53.119
the paranormal. And when this event
happened, you can only imagine his reaction

422
00:32:53.240 --> 00:32:59.359
to it. But it was a
very personal experience and I've witnessed it firsthand

423
00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:02.079
over the years with her, and
to this day, I've physically been sitting

424
00:33:02.119 --> 00:33:06.480
there with her talking about it,
and I'll see like goosebumps still come up

425
00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:09.240
on her arm when she starts to
think about it. And so just to

426
00:33:09.319 --> 00:33:15.079
kind of underscore the emotional impact that
these these close encounters, again not the

427
00:33:15.160 --> 00:33:17.880
distance sighting so much, but the
true close encounter cases. Where As in

428
00:33:17.920 --> 00:33:22.279
her case, much like Richard Dreyfuss
and the movie Close Encounters, there was

429
00:33:22.279 --> 00:33:25.400
something directly over their car with a
spotlight shining down on the vehicle and the

430
00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:30.279
surrounding area that illuminated buildings and bushes
and trees around them, And this was

431
00:33:30.319 --> 00:33:37.440
in the middle of the night.
So yeah, I mean it's it's amazing,

432
00:33:37.720 --> 00:33:42.839
and I don't think that we as
researchers can ever truly convey the emotional

433
00:33:42.880 --> 00:33:45.559
impact that these these close encounters have
on these individuals. You know, you

434
00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:50.440
made me think of something and something
especially more fringe for you and I.

435
00:33:50.559 --> 00:33:53.240
You and I are more hard researchers. We like the data and the information.

436
00:33:55.119 --> 00:34:00.440
But in the movie it alludes to
that what you're talking about, but

437
00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:07.400
almost alludes to that being purposeful,
Like this compulsion is comes from something that's

438
00:34:07.400 --> 00:34:13.440
seeded into these people, correct,
But like you said, when they have

439
00:34:13.599 --> 00:34:19.599
these events, they're affected. And
there's many people, not myself because I

440
00:34:19.599 --> 00:34:22.519
didn't have a signing till I was
into this for a long time, and

441
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:27.280
I don't know have you had one. I've seen anomalous lights, but they

442
00:34:27.320 --> 00:34:30.320
were fleeting, they were brief,
they were just you know, if you

443
00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:32.559
want to call that a UFO,
I guess you can. But for me

444
00:34:32.679 --> 00:34:36.239
to say I truly saw UFO,
I need to see a little bit more

445
00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:39.599
detail than just the little points of
light that I've seen making unusual erratic maneuvers

446
00:34:39.599 --> 00:34:44.719
in the sky. Nothing I would
really hang my hat on right. But

447
00:34:44.840 --> 00:34:46.719
a lot of people that we meet
and come to our lectures, the reason

448
00:34:46.760 --> 00:34:51.559
they're there is because they did have
an experience like that. And you know,

449
00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:54.039
you can even think of some people
like Robert Bigelow, I mean,

450
00:34:54.519 --> 00:35:00.519
his whole motivation is kind of like
a drift. Dreyfus character is staff of

451
00:35:00.599 --> 00:35:04.960
this event that happened as a kid. Absolutely, and you know, going

452
00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:08.760
back through the annals of UFO history, even I mean Clyde Tombaugh, the

453
00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:15.639
famous astronomer at a sighting. Many
of these individuals have had very dramatic sightings

454
00:35:15.639 --> 00:35:17.679
over the years, and that's what, you know, generated their interest in

455
00:35:17.719 --> 00:35:22.400
the subject. It's not just simply
reading about something or I hate to use

456
00:35:22.440 --> 00:35:27.599
the term it's bantered about so much
believing in UFOs. It's people have had

457
00:35:27.760 --> 00:35:36.519
real world life experiences firsthand. And
once you've had that experiential effect on your

458
00:35:36.559 --> 00:35:39.079
life, like I said, it
leads an indelible impression. Mm hmm.

459
00:35:39.559 --> 00:35:44.920
And Tom Bow is part of the
Life magazine article in the early fifties that

460
00:35:45.079 --> 00:35:51.519
really helped keep the Air Force into
UFO investigating absolutely absolutely, some of the

461
00:35:51.559 --> 00:35:54.199
early research is fascinating in some of
the sightings that some of these individuals have

462
00:35:54.320 --> 00:36:00.480
had and of course you know presidents
as well over the years. I mean,

463
00:36:00.599 --> 00:36:04.679
just and that's what's interesting about the
UFO subject. It's non discriminatory.

464
00:36:05.159 --> 00:36:09.639
It affects all ages, all races, all religious denominations. It really cuts

465
00:36:09.639 --> 00:36:14.639
through all the demographics. I mean, it impacts every aspect of life as

466
00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:21.719
far as individuals go, and it
really doesn't discriminate. You know. It

467
00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:24.719
makes me think of another aspect too, that movie, which kind of is

468
00:36:24.719 --> 00:36:28.760
a real punch in the stomach to
me, and I think to you,

469
00:36:29.079 --> 00:36:34.440
UFO people in general in this field
and this frustration which is at the end

470
00:36:34.519 --> 00:36:37.239
of the movie. And first this
was like an important thought to me when

471
00:36:37.840 --> 00:36:44.360
uh and it's something I actually reflect
upon regularly in this field. At the

472
00:36:44.440 --> 00:36:50.760
end of the movie, the woman
whose son was taken, they're in there

473
00:36:50.800 --> 00:36:54.480
and there she's taking pictures of the
aliens, and I thought, if that

474
00:36:54.599 --> 00:36:58.199
happened, because we've had this,
you know, it's mouf on investigators.

475
00:36:58.199 --> 00:37:01.559
You we've both done that. If
she would have brought those pictures to us,

476
00:37:02.119 --> 00:37:07.639
even if we believe them, if
she convinced us, there's practically nothing

477
00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:10.599
we could do with them because nobody's
going to believe it. No, absolutely,

478
00:37:10.679 --> 00:37:16.280
the exactly And that's what's interesting.
I mean, we have this elusive

479
00:37:16.719 --> 00:37:22.440
term that we banter about called proof, and proof is a very nebulous,

480
00:37:22.639 --> 00:37:27.519
very subjective term, and we often
talk about this regarding the UFO subject as

481
00:37:27.559 --> 00:37:31.000
a whole when we discuss proof.
Well, proof in the court of law

482
00:37:31.119 --> 00:37:34.880
is one thing. Proof in the
court of public opinion is another. And

483
00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:38.880
then we have proof within the scientific
community. And so there's different thresholds of

484
00:37:39.480 --> 00:37:44.559
requirements to meet with regard to each
one of those different types of you know,

485
00:37:44.639 --> 00:37:47.599
quote unquote proof that you're dealing with. I think, in general,

486
00:37:47.719 --> 00:37:52.960
the court of public opinion, based
on at least some of the latest polls,

487
00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:54.480
I mean, at least half,
if not more than half of the

488
00:37:54.559 --> 00:38:00.199
general public with in most countries.
Except that there are UFOs what they are,

489
00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:02.599
that's a whole different subject we can
get into. But so the court

490
00:38:02.599 --> 00:38:06.119
of public opinion, I think,
you know, we've got our foot in

491
00:38:06.119 --> 00:38:08.719
the door there, and people are
pretty well educated on the subject as far

492
00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:14.360
as that there are reports that still
persist, that continue and there's a small

493
00:38:14.400 --> 00:38:19.840
subset of that larger body that tend
to defy explanation. Then we get into

494
00:38:19.880 --> 00:38:23.920
the court of law. And I
think Stanton Friedman and maybe yourself and others

495
00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:27.880
have talked about the fact that in
a court of law we could really put

496
00:38:27.920 --> 00:38:30.719
together a compelling argument, and I
would agree with that as well. But

497
00:38:30.760 --> 00:38:37.159
then we get into the court of
public opinion, and then we get into

498
00:38:37.199 --> 00:38:42.639
the court of law. But then
we get into the framework of the traditional

499
00:38:42.679 --> 00:38:46.519
scientists and the scientific model. And
in my book I talk about this,

500
00:38:46.880 --> 00:38:52.559
The traditional scientific model does not apply
to UFOs because if and I underscore that

501
00:38:52.639 --> 00:38:59.920
sixteen times, if we are truly
dealing with an intelligence that is non terrestrial,

502
00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:06.719
that is advanced, say hundreds thousands
of years, how are we going

503
00:39:06.760 --> 00:39:09.400
to subject that to the scientific model? How do we put that into a

504
00:39:09.480 --> 00:39:14.760
controlled lab environment, how do we
try to eliminate all the external variables,

505
00:39:14.800 --> 00:39:20.360
and how do we try to manipulate
that subject of our study. The scientific

506
00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:22.480
model, when you think about it, is predicated on the idea that we

507
00:39:22.559 --> 00:39:27.719
can control all the variables. And
if we're dealing with something that's a little

508
00:39:27.760 --> 00:39:31.280
bit higher on the technological food chain, if you will, it really doesn't

509
00:39:31.320 --> 00:39:37.440
apply or conform to the scientific model
because we can't control it. It's above

510
00:39:37.480 --> 00:39:43.360
our technology, it's beyond our ability
to manipulate and monitor it. Rather,

511
00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:51.360
they're probably monitoring us. Yeah,
what do you just went over? Is

512
00:39:51.960 --> 00:39:55.360
probably one of my favorite moments on
any of my podcasts because and that's why

513
00:39:55.400 --> 00:40:00.440
I love you and your work in
your frame, you're the way you're thinking

514
00:40:00.519 --> 00:40:06.559
so much because exactly you can't,
you know, throw around these terms of

515
00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:14.199
proof and evidence without understanding these different
thresholds. And even though, like you

516
00:40:14.280 --> 00:40:20.840
say, this field is elusive when
it comes to the scientific court of what

517
00:40:21.039 --> 00:40:24.679
is proof and evidence, we still
need to pursue it. But what's different

518
00:40:24.800 --> 00:40:29.400
is, you know, when you
get into let's say dark matter, that

519
00:40:29.519 --> 00:40:31.719
is kind of a similar area where
we don't have control over all of the

520
00:40:31.800 --> 00:40:37.280
variabulls, but there's a lot of
kind of stuff pointing to it. And

521
00:40:39.639 --> 00:40:45.559
so scientists have adopted this idea of
dark dark matter, but it's not proven.

522
00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:50.400
We have not been able to And
it's the same thing with kind of

523
00:40:50.440 --> 00:40:55.039
this phenomena in that there's enough out
there, at least four people like you

524
00:40:55.079 --> 00:41:01.400
and I to demonstrate there's a genuine
mystery here. But when we may reach

525
00:41:02.039 --> 00:41:10.079
you know, any sort of scientific
evidence that's that's more difficult to know well,

526
00:41:10.599 --> 00:41:13.960
And you bring up a good point, and I'm glad. I'm glad

527
00:41:14.000 --> 00:41:16.719
you mentioned that because I completely agree
what I just said does not mean we

528
00:41:16.719 --> 00:41:22.079
should abandon science. Shouldn't abandon the
scientific method. But all I'm simply stating

529
00:41:22.159 --> 00:41:29.320
is that we may be our scientific
model may not be strong enough to study

530
00:41:29.360 --> 00:41:32.199
this phenomenon, but I think we
should pursue it because certainly, in every

531
00:41:32.239 --> 00:41:38.480
other discipline it makes sense to follow
the traditional scientific model. But unfortunately,

532
00:41:38.480 --> 00:41:44.159
there's so much signal to noise ratio
that we're dealing with. There's so much

533
00:41:44.280 --> 00:41:49.480
misinformation disinformation out there, and you
know, our studies, our research are

534
00:41:49.480 --> 00:41:52.480
only as good as the data that
we analyze, and so we as researchers,

535
00:41:52.519 --> 00:41:54.840
and I know, I know you
and I are on the same page

536
00:41:54.880 --> 00:41:59.639
with this. We are very meticulous. We are very careful about vetting the

537
00:41:59.639 --> 00:42:01.800
informa that we look at, that
we analyze, that we put into that

538
00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:07.199
collective body of information that we're studying. Unfortunately, some colleagues in the field

539
00:42:07.239 --> 00:42:12.039
are not as meticulous and judicious as
we are. But I think that's where

540
00:42:12.039 --> 00:42:14.880
you and I and other researchers like
the researchers that are going to be a

541
00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:17.840
devil's tower this year. I think
we all share that in the sense that

542
00:42:19.639 --> 00:42:22.400
we're going to try to make up
for the shortcomings of other researchers by truly

543
00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:29.199
trying to be objective and be meticulous
and try to truly vet the information properly.

544
00:42:29.960 --> 00:42:35.239
Because when we get up as UFO
researchers and make statements or make tentative

545
00:42:35.280 --> 00:42:38.920
conclusions or suppositions, our arguments are
only as strong as the weakest link.

546
00:42:39.360 --> 00:42:44.920
And so as researchers we need to
be careful about the information that we present.

547
00:42:44.960 --> 00:42:47.079
And I know you and I are
completely on the same page with regard

548
00:42:47.079 --> 00:42:52.960
to that. Yeah, you know, the framework that you just set out

549
00:42:52.039 --> 00:43:00.280
also makes me kind of reflect upon
it, and I think one of the

550
00:43:00.320 --> 00:43:05.480
reasons we're kind of stuck also is
that we've actually gained a lot of ground,

551
00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:07.840
Like the numbers that you use when
it comes to public opinion, we've

552
00:43:07.880 --> 00:43:14.199
kind of cross that hurdle, and
the public opinion has I think become on

553
00:43:14.280 --> 00:43:17.400
the side that there's a real mystery. So we then move into kind of

554
00:43:17.400 --> 00:43:22.599
the court case, and we've actually
at this point won the court case.

555
00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:30.679
I mean there's enough of that sort
of evidence, circumstantial evidence, credible expert

556
00:43:30.800 --> 00:43:35.599
witnesses, And this is something people
need to understand. Anecdotal information by itself

557
00:43:35.920 --> 00:43:38.639
is not enough even in the court
of law. You need expert opinion.

558
00:43:38.880 --> 00:43:45.000
But we do have expert opinion now
expert opinion. We have multiple ground based,

559
00:43:45.039 --> 00:43:49.440
air based radar confirmation of these sightings. As you know, photographic and

560
00:43:49.519 --> 00:43:52.599
video evidence, which in some cases
has been analyzed fairly well, although the

561
00:43:52.920 --> 00:43:57.679
beast majority is just out there floating
around on the Internet and YouTube, and

562
00:43:58.440 --> 00:44:01.920
I always like to call that more
entertained met than evidence. I always have

563
00:44:01.960 --> 00:44:06.480
people coming up to me, have
you seen the latest YouTube video? And

564
00:44:06.519 --> 00:44:08.639
I told him, I said,
I work full time and I do UFOs

565
00:44:08.679 --> 00:44:13.039
full time. On the side,
I said, I work full time jobs.

566
00:44:13.320 --> 00:44:16.280
It would be a full time job
just to watch every latest UFO video

567
00:44:16.360 --> 00:44:20.199
posted on YouTube. I said,
I don't have time for that. And

568
00:44:20.320 --> 00:44:23.000
again getting back to what we were
discussing, it's very hard to chase down

569
00:44:23.199 --> 00:44:28.840
where those videos originate from, who
actually shot the video, and under what

570
00:44:28.960 --> 00:44:34.400
circumstances. So I've never really made
that a focus of my research, and

571
00:44:34.719 --> 00:44:37.800
even with some of the cases I've
analyzed where there's photo evidence. I don't

572
00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:42.039
profess to be a photo analyst,
but I would certainly enlist the aid of

573
00:44:42.079 --> 00:44:45.920
anyone that does have expertise in those
areas, maybe willing to donate their time

574
00:44:45.960 --> 00:44:51.079
pro bono to looking at some of
the photo and video evidence associated with some

575
00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:57.199
of these cases. Yeah, and
so the next step is a scientific and

576
00:44:57.280 --> 00:45:01.320
I have some questions around that for
you also, But this could be an

577
00:45:01.360 --> 00:45:06.079
area that we're in for a long
time. Getting back to the dark matter.

578
00:45:06.800 --> 00:45:09.840
Dark matter, the seventies is when
I think people started talking about it.

579
00:45:09.880 --> 00:45:15.079
Early eighties is when scientists kind of
adopted it, but they still haven't

580
00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:17.559
proven it, And so we may
be in a situation for quite some time

581
00:45:17.800 --> 00:45:22.760
where we can't prove it. But
in this case, we're dealing with a

582
00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:30.000
potential sophisticated intelligence, and I don't
know, I don't feel that it is

583
00:45:30.159 --> 00:45:36.440
much of a leap, even though
SETI scientists do that if these intelligence exists,

584
00:45:36.840 --> 00:45:42.320
they're capable of denying that sort of
evidence. No, I agree.

585
00:45:43.079 --> 00:45:50.400
It's an interesting dynamic when you deal
with the study researchers. Obviously, their

586
00:45:50.440 --> 00:45:53.320
whole existence is predicated on the notion
that there must be life out there,

587
00:45:54.039 --> 00:45:59.719
but because we can't get out there, and advanced intelligence can't travel here.

588
00:46:00.239 --> 00:46:04.079
And what's interesting about that argument,
and it goes back to what you were

589
00:46:04.119 --> 00:46:07.679
just saying a moment ago about dark
matter and how scientists are still studying this

590
00:46:07.800 --> 00:46:13.880
and trying to understand it. The
SETI arguments, and really all the traditional

591
00:46:13.920 --> 00:46:17.079
scientific arguments that both you and I
and collectively the UFO community have heard over

592
00:46:17.079 --> 00:46:23.880
the years, is based on the
extraterrestrial hypothesis, namely, one star system,

593
00:46:24.159 --> 00:46:30.159
one race of beings on some planet
in a distance star traveling light years

594
00:46:30.159 --> 00:46:32.719
to get here. And then they
go into the traditional argument which you and

595
00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:37.679
I have heard at infinitum ad nauseum, about well, the distance is required

596
00:46:37.719 --> 00:46:42.719
and the time involved in the life
span of the entities, and the fuel

597
00:46:42.800 --> 00:46:45.880
requirements would exceed the capability of a
spacecraft. YadA, YadA, YadA.

598
00:46:45.920 --> 00:46:50.119
I think a lot of your audience
have heard these arguments time and time again.

599
00:46:50.719 --> 00:46:52.360
But the one thing we have to
take a step back and realize is

600
00:46:52.400 --> 00:47:00.679
the extraterrestrial hypothesis is just one of
many hypotheses. And talking about dark matter

601
00:47:00.719 --> 00:47:06.400
and talking about science and looking forward, I find it interesting going through my

602
00:47:06.599 --> 00:47:12.440
research files, going through magazines and
newsletter articles back from the late fifties into

603
00:47:12.519 --> 00:47:20.199
the early mid sixties, you have
UFO researchers or enthusiasts that talk or reference

604
00:47:20.280 --> 00:47:24.920
the fact maybe these things are maybe
dimensional in nature, maybe they're not extraterrestrial,

605
00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:29.960
in other words, coming from another
star system. And you would see

606
00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:35.280
skeptics from the time, and you
would see mainstream scientists poking fun at UFO

607
00:47:35.360 --> 00:47:37.519
researchers saying, well, there you
go, there's the folly of UFO research

608
00:47:37.599 --> 00:47:43.119
and researchers. They're often the land
of speculation and science fiction. Well,

609
00:47:43.320 --> 00:47:46.599
for anyone that's read Mishio Kaku's works, or for anyone that has really kept

610
00:47:46.639 --> 00:47:52.280
up to speed on where astrophysics is
now going, you can almost talk to

611
00:47:52.280 --> 00:47:59.719
any astrophysicist and they're willing to conceive
that multiple dimensions of reality more than likely.

612
00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:06.079
You know, it's as if science
is catching up with UFOs, right,

613
00:48:06.480 --> 00:48:08.880
we've got to go to break actually, But on that point, I

614
00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:16.280
have been talking with some more credible
science minded people, and behind the scenes,

615
00:48:16.840 --> 00:48:23.519
they're not willing to be public about
their discussions. But now that there

616
00:48:23.679 --> 00:48:30.159
is more credibility brought to the potential
existence of this phenomena. They're more willing

617
00:48:30.239 --> 00:48:37.559
to speculate in that vein that perhaps
it's a multi dimensional sort of issue,

618
00:48:37.599 --> 00:48:44.079
because multi dimensional science is a thing. So it's interesting that I think that's

619
00:48:44.119 --> 00:48:45.920
where they're going to be going if
they come out of the gate soon,

620
00:48:46.960 --> 00:48:51.280
you know, to talk about this
mystery. But we do have to go

621
00:48:51.599 --> 00:48:55.119
to a break. We're talking with
David Marler. You're listening to Open MINDUFO

622
00:48:55.280 --> 00:49:00.199
Radio. And for those of you
listening to the podcast, you'll hear a

623
00:49:00.360 --> 00:49:05.239
short musical interlude. For the rest
of you, you'll hear some commercials on

624
00:49:05.400 --> 00:49:08.519
kg r A Radio, So please, you know, stick around, listen

625
00:49:08.559 --> 00:49:14.199
to those and patronize some of these
people because they help keep kg r A

626
00:49:14.719 --> 00:49:17.239
running. And I'm sure if you're
listening on KGr A you love their their

627
00:49:17.360 --> 00:49:22.239
music or their their shows. They
don't do music. Hopefully they love the

628
00:49:22.320 --> 00:49:25.599
music in my break here, but
I'm rambling because I didn't have copy this

629
00:49:25.760 --> 00:49:29.679
morning. Let's go ahead and go
to break. We'll be right back with

630
00:49:29.760 --> 00:50:13.679
David Marlin. Welcome back. You're
listening to Open Mind UFO Radio. I'm

631
00:50:13.719 --> 00:50:19.960
your host, Alejandro Rojas, and
we are here with David Marler having an

632
00:50:20.079 --> 00:50:23.880
absolutely fascinating discussion. I was already
excited for Wyoming coming up here. Now

633
00:50:23.960 --> 00:50:28.840
I'm even doubly excited. But we
were talking about how, you know,

634
00:50:29.320 --> 00:50:34.119
these different courts of proof and evidence, and we've kind of got the public,

635
00:50:34.159 --> 00:50:38.239
We've got the court case. Next
is a scientific case. And for

636
00:50:38.440 --> 00:50:42.760
any you know people, we've been
talking about this in the last couple of

637
00:50:42.800 --> 00:50:46.519
shows. It's just to the Stars
Academy and them creating this ADAM project where

638
00:50:46.559 --> 00:50:53.679
they want to examine UFO materials,
potential allegedly materials. But you know,

639
00:50:53.800 --> 00:50:59.400
as much criticism as people may have
out there of the group and what's going

640
00:50:59.440 --> 00:51:07.039
on, them putting together this ADAM
project actually put takes this one step closer

641
00:51:07.719 --> 00:51:13.519
to scientific evenings that at least now
we have a mechanism for it. What

642
00:51:13.559 --> 00:51:17.440
are your thoughts on this new project. I am for anyone that wants to

643
00:51:17.480 --> 00:51:23.239
invest time or their treasury into examining
this subject. And you know, even

644
00:51:23.280 --> 00:51:29.039
with the UFO conferences that you and
I speak at, Alejandro, I encourage

645
00:51:29.039 --> 00:51:32.320
people, if you're interested in the
subject, join, move on, go

646
00:51:32.360 --> 00:51:37.599
and do investigations on your own.
Donate money to researchers that you believe are

647
00:51:37.599 --> 00:51:44.360
credible but participate on some level.
I mean, the UFO subject or UFO

648
00:51:44.480 --> 00:51:47.239
research community within the UFO subject has
always, as you know, been a

649
00:51:47.280 --> 00:51:53.039
grassroots movement. It's individuals from all
walks of life that have full time jobs

650
00:51:53.079 --> 00:51:58.760
during the day but feel in their
heart of hearts that this subject needs to

651
00:51:58.760 --> 00:52:04.239
be investigated. So, you know, to the Stars Academy, I endorse

652
00:52:04.320 --> 00:52:08.800
them. I congratulate them for investing
time and effort into trying to understand this

653
00:52:08.920 --> 00:52:14.079
mystery. Anyone that truly takes an
objective, scientific approach towards the subject,

654
00:52:14.719 --> 00:52:16.880
I'm all for. I certainly am
not going to be, you know,

655
00:52:16.920 --> 00:52:21.079
one of the naysayers or one of
the skeptics on the side kind of casting

656
00:52:21.159 --> 00:52:25.000
stones. Anyone that's taking an active
role in this subject, I commend you

657
00:52:25.239 --> 00:52:30.239
for the time the courage to do
so. So many people like to sit

658
00:52:30.320 --> 00:52:34.599
and hear ghost stories. I mean
it's great that they come to the conferences

659
00:52:34.599 --> 00:52:37.719
and they listen to the information.
They're open minded. I congratulate you for

660
00:52:37.800 --> 00:52:40.800
that, but I would encourage you
to take the next step, do something

661
00:52:40.840 --> 00:52:45.440
to actively help the research move forward, because we have a lot of data,

662
00:52:45.440 --> 00:52:50.039
as you and I were discussing during
the break, and we have to

663
00:52:50.039 --> 00:52:52.960
sift through that data. We have
to collect new data, We have to

664
00:52:52.320 --> 00:52:58.159
start putting this information together. It
doesn't help to continue to collect UFO case

665
00:52:58.199 --> 00:53:01.079
files if we're not going to start
diving into that material and looking for patterns,

666
00:53:01.079 --> 00:53:06.159
which is what as you know,
I'd done with the triangular UFO subject.

667
00:53:06.199 --> 00:53:09.159
Really tried to take laser focus and
look at this subset of UFO reports

668
00:53:09.599 --> 00:53:14.760
and come to find out we have
at least fifty sixty seventy years worth of

669
00:53:14.760 --> 00:53:20.320
these triangular UFO reports. So looking
for patterns in the data. Anyone that

670
00:53:20.360 --> 00:53:22.039
can take the time or effort,
or like I said, if you have

671
00:53:22.599 --> 00:53:27.000
lots of money and you know a
researcher out there that you like that you

672
00:53:27.039 --> 00:53:30.880
want to support financially, any assistance
can help you know, budget that needle

673
00:53:31.119 --> 00:53:35.920
move us forward to have a better
understanding of this subject. It's funny,

674
00:53:36.199 --> 00:53:38.079
you know, on that point that
you said, anybody who's willing to,

675
00:53:38.280 --> 00:53:43.039
you know, kind of dive into
their treasury, and that's kind of the

676
00:53:43.039 --> 00:53:45.960
way a lot of us think about
it. It's not you know, there's

677
00:53:46.039 --> 00:53:52.440
this this this idea out there,
especially among some mainstream I think it's starting

678
00:53:52.480 --> 00:53:54.880
to go away that some people in
this field do this sort of thing like

679
00:53:55.000 --> 00:54:00.599
writing a book for money, whereas
really for people like you and I,

680
00:54:00.880 --> 00:54:04.679
it's more of a how much am
I going to be able to spend on

681
00:54:06.360 --> 00:54:08.480
absolutely In fact, I'm sitting here
in my research room and you know,

682
00:54:08.679 --> 00:54:12.599
I don't even want to try to
mentally add up the amount of money I've

683
00:54:12.599 --> 00:54:16.280
spent over twenty eight years of investigating
this. I'm looking at sixteen four door

684
00:54:16.320 --> 00:54:21.199
file cabinets on my right and about
ten bookcases on my left, and that's

685
00:54:21.239 --> 00:54:23.880
just some of the material that I've
amassed. And I don't even want to

686
00:54:23.920 --> 00:54:27.840
try to do the math as far
as what I've spent. And that's that's

687
00:54:27.880 --> 00:54:31.159
counting materials, that's not counting obviously, time in the field that you and

688
00:54:31.199 --> 00:54:36.360
I have done, you know,
boots in the field, looking and investigating

689
00:54:36.400 --> 00:54:39.960
and researching, doing skywatches, doing
nighttime vigils in areas where they've had repeated

690
00:54:40.039 --> 00:54:45.480
UFO sightings. I don't think people
truly appreciate the amount of time and money

691
00:54:45.519 --> 00:54:51.559
that UFO researchers spend, and you
know, with maybe very rare exception.

692
00:54:51.679 --> 00:54:55.480
Do I know anybody that's actually gotten
ahead and actually made money as opposed to

693
00:54:55.800 --> 00:55:00.280
losing money. But to your point, we don't do it for the money.

694
00:55:00.599 --> 00:55:02.719
We do it because we truly believe
there is something that needs to be

695
00:55:02.760 --> 00:55:08.079
studied. And that's without making any
conclusions. All we're simply saying is there

696
00:55:08.159 --> 00:55:14.760
is a body of information here that
deserves better scrutiny and better understanding. And

697
00:55:15.119 --> 00:55:17.239
that's really the only thing that I
enter into the subject with is with that

698
00:55:17.360 --> 00:55:22.199
mindset that, as I like to
say, where there's smoke their spire,

699
00:55:22.760 --> 00:55:25.440
and there's a hell of a lot
of smoke regarding this UFO subject, and

700
00:55:25.599 --> 00:55:32.400
it deserves it demands better scrutiny,
better scientific understanding. And so with that,

701
00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:36.480
that's why I'm passionate, and that's
why it's been my mission to try

702
00:55:36.480 --> 00:55:40.000
to at least glean a little bit
better understanding by sifting through this data and

703
00:55:40.079 --> 00:55:45.960
interviewing people and collecting this material.
And what's funny, Alejandro, is you

704
00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:49.840
know, when I wrote my book
a number of years ago, I had

705
00:55:49.840 --> 00:55:52.039
this naive intent that, well,
I've got all this information, I really

706
00:55:52.079 --> 00:55:57.280
want to share it with people.
What I didn't realize is the amount of

707
00:55:57.320 --> 00:56:02.400
information I would receive in response to
my book. Just within the last week,

708
00:56:02.400 --> 00:56:06.199
week and a half, I had
a gentleman, very nice gentleman,

709
00:56:06.559 --> 00:56:10.920
email me from Spain and describe in
detail a triangular UFO siting that he and

710
00:56:10.960 --> 00:56:16.280
his girlfriend or wife I believe had
a number of years ago. But I've

711
00:56:16.320 --> 00:56:22.320
received emails from Germany, Switzerland,
Spain, the UK, all over the

712
00:56:22.320 --> 00:56:28.239
world, people wanting to share their
reports. And I wasn't expecting that.

713
00:56:29.880 --> 00:56:31.639
I thought it was a one way
street that I'm going to provide this information

714
00:56:32.159 --> 00:56:37.159
to the public, and I didn't
realize how the public would respond with providing

715
00:56:37.159 --> 00:56:40.760
additional case files and information. I
want to get back to something else.

716
00:56:40.800 --> 00:56:46.880
You just talked about diving into the
information and this abundance of information being out

717
00:56:46.920 --> 00:56:50.920
there. One of the things I
like to design my talks around it.

718
00:56:50.920 --> 00:56:54.559
And this is something that is looking
at cases that have a bunch of information,

719
00:56:57.000 --> 00:57:00.119
and there are so many people are
like, well, why do you

720
00:57:00.199 --> 00:57:04.920
guys have to rehash this old stuff. It's because there's stuff you don't know

721
00:57:04.960 --> 00:57:07.880
about this old stuff, and maybe
you could talk about you were given a

722
00:57:07.920 --> 00:57:12.440
compliment recently, well not recently,
it was a few years back. I

723
00:57:12.519 --> 00:57:15.159
was at well, it still applies, it still applies, and it's applicable

724
00:57:15.159 --> 00:57:19.559
to what we're discussing. Your Rich
Dolan, after one of my lectures I

725
00:57:19.559 --> 00:57:22.039
can't remember it was on the Battle
of La or the Farmington Flying saucer Amada

726
00:57:22.039 --> 00:57:27.119
of nineteen fifty, he came up
to me in the lobby after my lecture

727
00:57:27.159 --> 00:57:29.800
and he goes, you know,
I really think you found your niche he

728
00:57:29.880 --> 00:57:32.679
goes, you have the unique ability
to take a case that we thought we

729
00:57:32.719 --> 00:57:37.079
knew about for years or decades,
and we thought we knew everything, and

730
00:57:37.159 --> 00:57:42.760
you do a deeper dive and you're
able to find additional details and information that

731
00:57:42.800 --> 00:57:45.679
we didn't know about. And so
coming from Rich, you know, I

732
00:57:45.760 --> 00:57:50.280
take that as as an extreme compliment, but it's true. And to your

733
00:57:50.280 --> 00:57:54.320
point, I've often seen criticisms posted
about whether it's my Battle of La lecture

734
00:57:54.519 --> 00:58:00.239
or the Farmington incident, or even
people talking about other historical cases that other

735
00:58:00.280 --> 00:58:05.440
researchers have investigated. And to your
point, they'll make that criticism, well,

736
00:58:05.440 --> 00:58:07.360
why are we researching these old cases, my guy, that happened decades

737
00:58:07.400 --> 00:58:10.719
ago. Well, I'm here to
tell you, and I'll give you an

738
00:58:10.760 --> 00:58:17.000
exact reason why we investigate some of
these cases. My research into the Farmington

739
00:58:17.079 --> 00:58:22.519
Flying Saucer armada, I tracked down
two living witnesses from nineteen fifty that are

740
00:58:22.519 --> 00:58:25.760
still alive. One gentleman's ninety four
years old, still goes to work every

741
00:58:25.800 --> 00:58:31.719
day. He's a very successful businessman
in Farmington, New Mexico. I've become

742
00:58:31.760 --> 00:58:36.559
good friends with him. Some of
these witnesses are still around, They're not

743
00:58:36.599 --> 00:58:39.679
necessarily in the grave yet, and
so it's a gross assumption to assume that,

744
00:58:39.719 --> 00:58:43.840
well, it's been decades, all
those witnesses are deceased. No.

745
00:58:44.480 --> 00:58:46.920
I interviewed a living witness from the
Battle of La incident some years ago when

746
00:58:46.920 --> 00:58:52.920
I was first getting involved in that
research. But more importantly with Farmington,

747
00:58:52.280 --> 00:58:58.639
there were Air Force Office of Special
Investigation files that were declassified a number of

748
00:58:58.639 --> 00:59:04.400
decades ago, and then there were
six pages that were still classified. In

749
00:59:04.480 --> 00:59:07.760
nineteen eighty five, I came across
that with the assistance of Jan Aldridge,

750
00:59:08.280 --> 00:59:13.679
and there were OSI files and there
was a sheet from the Air Force Intelligence

751
00:59:13.679 --> 00:59:19.599
files stating that six pages were restricted
from declassification. Well, just within the

752
00:59:19.679 --> 00:59:23.320
last five to six months, I
filed a Freedom of information Act request and

753
00:59:23.440 --> 00:59:29.599
worked with the National Archives and I
was able to get the unredacted documents that

754
00:59:29.639 --> 00:59:34.679
were previously classified, and they were
only declassified within the last year year and

755
00:59:34.719 --> 00:59:37.039
a half. But I had to
file LA FOYA request to obtain them.

756
00:59:37.400 --> 00:59:40.800
So even though this case occurred in
nineteen fifty, it was only in twenty

757
00:59:40.840 --> 00:59:46.320
seventeen that these documents were fully declassified. So that's one of the reasons we

758
00:59:46.400 --> 00:59:51.320
investigate these old cases. Sometimes it
takes us decades to get our hands on

759
00:59:51.400 --> 00:59:57.480
the unredacted documents that provide additional details
and insights into what transpired decades ago.

760
00:59:58.199 --> 01:00:00.960
I think another great example is your
research with the Battle of La and that

761
01:00:01.000 --> 01:00:08.800
you've been able to uncover photographs.
Absolutely. I have an original photograph from

762
01:00:08.840 --> 01:00:14.000
the Battle of La and by that
I mean it has the original news teletype

763
01:00:14.039 --> 01:00:19.800
stamped and dated February twenty fifth,
nineteen forty two. The long story short,

764
01:00:19.880 --> 01:00:22.320
I obtained that through a gentleman that
lived in the Greater La area.

765
01:00:22.880 --> 01:00:27.199
His wife used to go to yard
sales and the state sales and he would

766
01:00:27.199 --> 01:00:30.679
begrudgingly go with her, and one
Saturday morning a few years ago, he

767
01:00:30.760 --> 01:00:36.519
went to one of these estate sales
or yard sales. And while he's waiting

768
01:00:36.559 --> 01:00:38.960
for his wife to peruse all the
different merchandise that was for sale, he

769
01:00:39.079 --> 01:00:44.440
knows two very large boxes underneath a
folding table sitting in the front yard,

770
01:00:44.920 --> 01:00:50.000
and he crouched down starts going through
filefolder after filefolder that was within these fileboxes,

771
01:00:50.480 --> 01:00:54.440
and in each filefolder was an original
black and white news photo with the

772
01:00:54.480 --> 01:01:00.920
corresponding news teletype glued to the back. And there were Hollywood celebrities bing Crosby,

773
01:01:01.360 --> 01:01:06.519
there were World War Two photos in
there. I mean, it was

774
01:01:06.559 --> 01:01:09.639
like a time capsule of the forties, nineteen fifties, I believe in the

775
01:01:09.840 --> 01:01:15.039
early nineteen sixties. And he asked
the woman that was obviously in charge of

776
01:01:15.079 --> 01:01:17.920
this yard sale, these are really
fascinating. Where did you obtain all these

777
01:01:17.960 --> 01:01:22.280
photos? And she said, innocently
enough, Oh, those belonged to my

778
01:01:22.360 --> 01:01:28.360
grandfather. He was a photographer with
the Associated Press. And lo and behold,

779
01:01:28.519 --> 01:01:30.599
out of all the Hollywood photos,
out of all the World War two

780
01:01:30.639 --> 01:01:35.440
photos, an original copy of the
Battle of la photo was there with the

781
01:01:35.480 --> 01:01:39.480
original news teletype, which I eventually
obtained from this gentleman. So again,

782
01:01:39.639 --> 01:01:45.679
with the passage of time, as
individuals pass away as their belongings are sold

783
01:01:45.719 --> 01:01:52.400
off. We never know where the
state is going to come from. Perfect

784
01:01:52.440 --> 01:01:54.559
examples of why you need to look
at this sort of thing. And I

785
01:01:54.639 --> 01:02:00.719
want to also kind of clarify something
because I think that self examined is always

786
01:02:00.760 --> 01:02:06.519
important. And I try not to
get too wrapped up in social media comments

787
01:02:06.519 --> 01:02:09.880
and stuff that people make, but
you know, I want to kind of

788
01:02:10.000 --> 01:02:14.400
talk about this because I think it's
fair and it's something that's probably good for

789
01:02:14.480 --> 01:02:17.400
us to talk about. Is some
people will talk about I get this occasionally,

790
01:02:17.440 --> 01:02:21.360
Oh you guys are so egotistical talking
about how great your work is,

791
01:02:21.360 --> 01:02:25.280
blah blah blah. But I would
say, in a way I feel this

792
01:02:25.320 --> 01:02:29.199
way a bit, and perhaps you
do too, that we kind of need

793
01:02:29.239 --> 01:02:36.159
to justify ourselves in this field because
it's not just kind of touting, oh,

794
01:02:36.639 --> 01:02:37.559
you know, the way we do
it is so great, but just

795
01:02:37.639 --> 01:02:44.280
that this sort of look at this
material. It's going to be important for

796
01:02:44.480 --> 01:02:49.800
credible research and for the mainstream going
forward, and we need to protect it

797
01:02:50.239 --> 01:02:54.000
because we're attacked constantly with oh,
we already know Roswell was aliens. We

798
01:02:54.039 --> 01:02:59.960
already know aliens are telling us this
and aliens are telling us that we don't.

799
01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:02.000
I don't know those things, so
we can't prove those things, and

800
01:03:02.039 --> 01:03:07.840
so we need to gather this material
like you're doing, and this evidence in

801
01:03:07.920 --> 01:03:10.639
this great research too, so we
can demonstrate that there is a rich,

802
01:03:10.719 --> 01:03:15.679
credible history here. And that's really
the fundamental thing I come back to.

803
01:03:15.960 --> 01:03:19.440
I think I mentioned I gave a
lecture at the University of New Mexico,

804
01:03:19.480 --> 01:03:22.039
which I was very honored to be
invited to speak there because I'll be donating

805
01:03:22.079 --> 01:03:28.400
my research library when I pass to
the university for long term preservation. But

806
01:03:28.880 --> 01:03:32.159
when I initially approach the university,
that's the exact cornerstone of my argument that

807
01:03:32.199 --> 01:03:37.039
I used. Whether you relegate the
subject of fact, fiction or folklore,

808
01:03:37.400 --> 01:03:39.920
we all have to agree it's part
of our culture and thereby it's part of

809
01:03:39.960 --> 01:03:44.360
our history, and just like any
other aspect of history, it needs to

810
01:03:44.400 --> 01:03:47.360
be preserved. And so that's what
I've tried doing, and that's what you

811
01:03:47.440 --> 01:03:51.360
and m will continue to do with
this collection when I'm long past. But

812
01:03:51.840 --> 01:03:54.079
I completely agree with you. We
need to very be we need to be

813
01:03:54.199 --> 01:04:00.400
very careful and distinguishing what we know
versus what we believe, and I see

814
01:04:00.440 --> 01:04:03.639
so much belief within the UFO field. I will concede. I believe there

815
01:04:03.679 --> 01:04:09.760
is something to this subject, but
I'm beyond that. As we were talking

816
01:04:09.760 --> 01:04:13.599
about during the break, Alejandro,
I have lots of data. You have

817
01:04:13.679 --> 01:04:17.719
lots of data. Data does not
necessarily equate to answers, and that's what

818
01:04:17.719 --> 01:04:24.039
we're looking for. And I would
argue, if someone wants to criticize your

819
01:04:24.119 --> 01:04:28.119
work, if someone wants to criticize
my work, do it in a constructive

820
01:04:28.159 --> 01:04:31.840
way, not through character assassination,
not through just little cheap shots on social

821
01:04:31.880 --> 01:04:36.800
media. If you feel that I've
made an error in my conclusions or in

822
01:04:36.800 --> 01:04:43.239
my research, please provide constructive criticism, because again it gets back to what

823
01:04:43.280 --> 01:04:47.639
we were alluding to earlier. Participate
in this journey, Participate in trying to

824
01:04:47.719 --> 01:04:55.039
understand this mystery. Cheap shots and
character assassination is not constructive in this field

825
01:04:55.119 --> 01:04:58.960
or in any other. If you
see that we're making an error, please

826
01:04:59.000 --> 01:05:02.159
provide suggestions. Have you thought about
approaching it from this angle? Hm,

827
01:05:03.119 --> 01:05:05.760
I'm not interested in people's opinions.
I've had people come up to me,

828
01:05:06.760 --> 01:05:11.440
both pro and con saying, oh
you investigate UFOs. I don't believe in

829
01:05:11.519 --> 01:05:15.639
UFOs, And I politely but very
bluntly state, well, I really don't

830
01:05:15.679 --> 01:05:17.599
care what you believe in, because
you know what, Alejandro, it doesn't

831
01:05:17.639 --> 01:05:21.559
matter what I believe. It doesn't
matter what you believe on a personal level,

832
01:05:21.639 --> 01:05:26.159
certainly, But when we're getting up
and presenting, it doesn't matter what

833
01:05:26.239 --> 01:05:30.199
we believe. All that matters is
what we can present in the way of

834
01:05:30.280 --> 01:05:32.639
evidence, in the way of patterns
in the data, in the way of

835
01:05:33.000 --> 01:05:39.639
information that bolsters these preconceived beliefs.
And let me ask you this. If

836
01:05:39.679 --> 01:05:44.800
someone said, David, you've got
that completely wrong. Here's a document that

837
01:05:44.920 --> 01:05:49.639
shows that proves my point that here's
what really happened, and this is how

838
01:05:49.639 --> 01:05:53.239
you have it wrong. How would
you feel when someone brought that to you.

839
01:05:53.760 --> 01:05:58.119
I'm completely I'm an objective researcher.
If you have compelling information that can

840
01:05:58.199 --> 01:06:02.519
prove demonstrably that I'm wrong, I'll
accept it. The difference is the difference

841
01:06:02.559 --> 01:06:06.400
is with some researchers out there,
Unlike yourself and myself, we do have

842
01:06:06.559 --> 01:06:11.400
jobs, we do have lives outside
the subject. Our whole existence is not

843
01:06:11.519 --> 01:06:15.519
predicated on believing in the UFO subject. And so it's not going to change

844
01:06:15.559 --> 01:06:19.199
my life in any way, shape
or form, if you can prove in

845
01:06:19.239 --> 01:06:24.440
fact, Alejandro, I have an
example, the famous January fifth, two

846
01:06:24.480 --> 01:06:30.800
thousand incident involving multiple police officers in
southern Illinois citing this triangular UFO. I've

847
01:06:30.800 --> 01:06:32.880
had many people on the internet and
personally tell me, well, that was

848
01:06:32.920 --> 01:06:36.679
just military. Well that's great that
you say that. Do you have anything

849
01:06:36.760 --> 01:06:41.039
to back that up? And I
concede it might be military. In fact,

850
01:06:41.039 --> 01:06:44.000
I did an interview with Darryl Barker, a friend and colleague of mine,

851
01:06:44.039 --> 01:06:46.960
who did a wonderful independent documentary on
that case, because he was actively

852
01:06:46.960 --> 01:06:49.639
involved in that case as well.
And that's in fact, how we met

853
01:06:49.679 --> 01:06:54.119
many years ago in two thousand and
two thousand and one, and I believe

854
01:06:54.159 --> 01:06:57.440
it was in I'm trying to think
now, I believe it was two thousand

855
01:06:57.440 --> 01:07:01.800
and five or two thousand and ten. I did an introduction for his revised

856
01:07:01.840 --> 01:07:06.880
documentary and stated that many people claim
that this object was military, and I

857
01:07:06.880 --> 01:07:12.679
can see it's a possibility. It's
actually the most probable explanation when you look

858
01:07:12.719 --> 01:07:16.800
at things equally. But I stated
at that time, again, this would

859
01:07:16.800 --> 01:07:21.440
be two thousand and five twenty ten
that I can see that that might be

860
01:07:21.480 --> 01:07:25.840
a possibility. But when you look
at the shelf life of aircraft, you

861
01:07:25.840 --> 01:07:29.440
know, you're looking maybe ten to
fifteen years, like the running a time.

862
01:07:29.480 --> 01:07:31.920
By the way, Okay, if
you look at that in another five

863
01:07:32.000 --> 01:07:35.159
years, ten years, twenty years
down the line, are we still going

864
01:07:35.199 --> 01:07:40.880
to cling to that explanation, because
certainly whatever existed in two thousand that was

865
01:07:40.920 --> 01:07:45.119
state of the art has been surpassed
and built upon, and I would think

866
01:07:45.159 --> 01:07:48.679
that that technology would have been declassified
ten twenty years later, you know,

867
01:07:48.920 --> 01:07:51.880
And I'm going to go so far
as to assume this because I know you

868
01:07:53.000 --> 01:07:56.559
and I think this would be the
case that you would feel similar with that

869
01:07:56.679 --> 01:08:00.760
idea. If someone brought you a
document that showed, actually there was a

870
01:08:00.159 --> 01:08:05.239
top secret project going on. I've
got a document that shows here's when the

871
01:08:05.320 --> 01:08:10.239
testing was done and there was testing
on that day. Not only would you

872
01:08:10.320 --> 01:08:15.280
not be upset, you would be
so excited and happy, and it would

873
01:08:15.280 --> 01:08:19.199
be in your next lecture. I
love coming across that stuff absolutely, I

874
01:08:19.239 --> 01:08:23.600
mean, please correct me. I
want to be corrected because I want the

875
01:08:23.680 --> 01:08:27.800
facts. As long as we have
credible information that presents that, then the

876
01:08:28.640 --> 01:08:30.079
you know, the facts are the
facts. That's how I look at it,

877
01:08:30.319 --> 01:08:34.319
right, ever direction that they lead
to or point to, and absolutely,

878
01:08:34.319 --> 01:08:36.319
because you know what, at that
point, I'm not going to waste

879
01:08:36.359 --> 01:08:41.720
any more time on this r right, And I think that's fascinating too.

880
01:08:41.800 --> 01:08:47.079
To me, unveiling some of these
secret programs or these technologies are almost as

881
01:08:47.119 --> 01:08:50.680
equally exciting because it's like, wow, look we did have this. Let's

882
01:08:50.680 --> 01:08:55.039
say, you know, we find
out the Phoenix Ights was it's a gigantic

883
01:08:55.439 --> 01:08:58.520
you know, triangular craft, because
we did have something like that that we

884
01:08:58.520 --> 01:09:01.840
were working on. Little story.
Yeah, it's still a great story.

885
01:09:02.319 --> 01:09:05.680
So we're out of time. What
do you have coming up? Are you

886
01:09:06.279 --> 01:09:11.199
working on a new book? Do
you have something to plug? Well,

887
01:09:11.439 --> 01:09:14.720
I'm working on a new book,
but it's going to be long and coming,

888
01:09:15.119 --> 01:09:17.399
like I said, with full time
job and family and other things.

889
01:09:17.439 --> 01:09:23.439
But I'm really trying to consolidate all
my research on the Farmington Incident from nineteen

890
01:09:23.520 --> 01:09:28.840
fifty into a small book because I
have come across new information, new evidence,

891
01:09:28.840 --> 01:09:31.920
and I've been able to weave together
the research of Barry Greenwood in conjunction

892
01:09:32.000 --> 01:09:36.039
with some information that I've uncovered I've
also gone to the University of Arizona and

893
01:09:36.560 --> 01:09:41.960
I resurrected some of doctor James McDonald's
investigative notes on that case, which many

894
01:09:41.960 --> 01:09:45.479
people haven't seen. So trying to
weave all of that together in addition to

895
01:09:45.520 --> 01:09:48.680
the newspaper research I've done at U
and m going through the microfilm and hopefully

896
01:09:48.720 --> 01:09:53.920
we'll put together a nice little book
that kind of sheds new light on that

897
01:09:54.000 --> 01:10:00.399
case and maybe gives a little bit
more exposure to what was really transpiring during

898
01:10:00.439 --> 01:10:04.399
those three days in nineteen fifty March
of nineteen fifty. So actively working on

899
01:10:04.439 --> 01:10:08.960
that as well as some other projects
as well. All right, well,

900
01:10:09.199 --> 01:10:14.680
time absolutely flew as usual. Thank
you so much for coming on the show

901
01:10:14.720 --> 01:10:17.199
again, and we'll see you soon
in Wyoming. Boys a pleasure, Thanks

902
01:10:17.239 --> 01:10:21.600
Alejandro, see you soon. Thank
you so much to David Marler for joining

903
01:10:21.720 --> 01:10:27.920
us on the show. He is
absolutely awesome. I'm a big, big,

904
01:10:27.960 --> 01:10:30.720
big big fan, so check out
his webpage well, of course,

905
01:10:30.760 --> 01:10:34.800
have a link in the show notes
and check out his book if you haven't,

906
01:10:35.079 --> 01:10:39.720
Trangler UFOs, very very very good
book. You can also see a

907
01:10:39.720 --> 01:10:44.199
link to that in the show notes
as well, which reminds me. If

908
01:10:44.239 --> 01:10:47.319
you're watching on YouTube, please do
subscribe. Also if you want to see

909
01:10:47.319 --> 01:10:50.760
when we post videos, which you
do because it's good stuff. Dude,

910
01:10:51.359 --> 01:10:55.880
click that little bell down there that
you see and you'll be sure to be

911
01:10:55.960 --> 01:11:00.000
notified. You might not be aware
that just because you subscribe doesn't mean you'll

912
01:11:00.079 --> 01:11:02.399
be notified when you're gonna when we
post a new video anymore. It used

913
01:11:02.399 --> 01:11:05.720
to be that way, I think, but it's not anymore anyway. Some

914
01:11:06.000 --> 01:11:12.039
updates before we go Openminds dot tv. If you go there, you're going

915
01:11:12.119 --> 01:11:15.079
to be able to see all of
that news at Martin and I talked about

916
01:11:15.119 --> 01:11:17.720
at the beginning of the show.
You're also going to be able to see

917
01:11:18.319 --> 01:11:21.039
some of the stories and stuff that
we have up there. One of the

918
01:11:21.079 --> 01:11:25.960
things that I have up there that's
new is this video what's the deal with

919
01:11:26.079 --> 01:11:29.720
the Space Force? So of course
we've talked about that before, but this

920
01:11:29.800 --> 01:11:33.399
gets into detail about the background of
the Space Force. And what's cool about

921
01:11:33.399 --> 01:11:36.239
this too, is this is on
my new YouTube page because I'm going to

922
01:11:36.319 --> 01:11:41.600
be doing some non UFO stuff and
so I'm going to be posting more videos

923
01:11:41.600 --> 01:11:45.359
there that are going to be reviews
and news and other stuff that's just going

924
01:11:45.399 --> 01:11:47.079
to be able to help you out
with your life. You can also at

925
01:11:47.119 --> 01:11:50.960
Openminds dot Tv. Of course,
get a link to the store, the

926
01:11:51.079 --> 01:11:57.199
UFO Congress store and the Open Mind's
T shirt stores, and then find those

927
01:11:57.239 --> 01:12:02.359
posters at Martin and I talked about
about those Extra Terrestrial tourism posters at orbits

928
01:12:02.479 --> 01:12:06.119
is promoting very very cool posters.
You got to at least look at them.

929
01:12:06.119 --> 01:12:11.119
They're really neat. And you can
also get on our email list.

930
01:12:11.159 --> 01:12:15.279
We just sent out an email late
last week. We send those out every

931
01:12:15.279 --> 01:12:18.840
two weeks for the most part,
so there's a big blue box for stay

932
01:12:18.880 --> 01:12:23.000
up to date that you can get
on the email list. You can also

933
01:12:23.039 --> 01:12:27.760
get on the email list at Ufocongress
dot com. I would highly highly recommend

934
01:12:27.760 --> 01:12:30.640
it because we just have tons and
tons of new stuff in there. So

935
01:12:30.680 --> 01:12:33.960
it's just one shot. You get
to see everything that's new that's out there

936
01:12:34.359 --> 01:12:38.600
in one shot, so really cool. Also, I want to promote some

937
01:12:38.640 --> 01:12:41.840
of the stuff that I'm up to. If you go to my patron site

938
01:12:41.880 --> 01:12:45.600
and you'll see a link to that
at the top right of Openminds dot Tv,

939
01:12:45.880 --> 01:12:49.079
or just like I said, go
to Patreon and Google me what's cool

940
01:12:49.079 --> 01:12:51.479
about this? I like referring to
my site because it shows all the other

941
01:12:51.520 --> 01:12:58.399
stuff I'm doing. So we went
to Saboten that's actually this anime conference for

942
01:12:58.439 --> 01:13:00.479
a minute. It's at the hotel
that we're going to be yet for the

943
01:13:00.560 --> 01:13:02.439
UFO Congress, and that's really while
we were there, but they were doing

944
01:13:02.439 --> 01:13:05.600
this anime thing, which I'm really
into, and they were doing cosplay,

945
01:13:05.800 --> 01:13:10.199
so all these people and their outfits. I took some pictures and I made

946
01:13:10.239 --> 01:13:13.800
a video so you can see some
cosplay if you're into that sort of thing.

947
01:13:14.239 --> 01:13:17.359
Also for the UFO Congress, I
talked about this before, but we're

948
01:13:17.359 --> 01:13:20.960
posting free videos that you're not going
to be able to see anywhere else on

949
01:13:21.039 --> 01:13:26.039
the UFO Congress YouTube page. And
when we get to a thousand subscribers,

950
01:13:26.039 --> 01:13:28.439
which we might even be there,
I've got to go check. We're very

951
01:13:28.439 --> 01:13:31.600
close. We're going to be doing
some giveaways T shirt Glowing the Dark Alien

952
01:13:31.680 --> 01:13:34.760
hat rocks, so you got to
check that out. Of course, I

953
01:13:34.800 --> 01:13:40.279
mentioned Devil's Tower UFO Rendezvous. We've
got a link to that in our email

954
01:13:40.319 --> 01:13:45.800
and also on my Patreon site.
And I think I've told you everything there

955
01:13:45.960 --> 01:13:49.800
is to know. So a couple
about those videos on the UFO Congress site.

956
01:13:49.800 --> 01:13:53.319
By the way, we have a
David Hatcher Childress one that you're not

957
01:13:53.359 --> 01:13:56.520
going to see anywhere else. Of
course, he's on the TV show Ancient

958
01:13:56.560 --> 01:14:00.319
Aliens. And we also have one
from Tracy Tormae who was the screenwriter and

959
01:14:00.359 --> 01:14:05.039
producer of Fire in the Sky the
Travis Walton's story, so it's him talking

960
01:14:05.079 --> 01:14:09.680
about it. Very rare video and
also a Q and A. But that

961
01:14:10.000 --> 01:14:14.720
is everything. So thank you very
much to David Marler. Again, thank

962
01:14:14.760 --> 01:14:19.439
you to Caleb Hanks for the opening
end closed music. Remember his brother Micah

963
01:14:19.479 --> 01:14:24.640
Hanks, who is also awesome.
He is going to be at the Devil's

964
01:14:24.680 --> 01:14:30.640
Tower conference as well, and also
Chris O'Brien is going to be there and

965
01:14:30.680 --> 01:14:31.800
that's going to be our next guest, so check it out. We're going

966
01:14:31.840 --> 01:14:38.439
to have some really important new info
from him on the next podcast. Thank

967
01:14:38.479 --> 01:14:41.439
you to Martin for helping me out
with the news at the beginning. Check

968
01:14:41.520 --> 01:14:45.239
him out on podcast UFO, and
thank you for Systematics for the bumper music,

969
01:14:45.520 --> 01:14:49.479
and of course, as usual,
thank you the listener for joining us

970
01:14:49.520 --> 01:15:45.319
again and we'll talk to you next
week Until then, audio smooth chucchos and you mus