Hello, Welcome to this episode of Superhero Ethics. Today we are continuing our
journey through Avatar the Last Airbender, the Netflix Live Action Edition with episodes five
and six, and once again I'm joined by Riki of Wikipedia and Paul's the
Zen Madman. What do you think these episodes? I liked them more than
I liked the previous two, which I liked more than the previous two,
so that that feels good. Yeah, going in a good direction. I'm
continuing on my trend of Iro Yes Ang No that I started with last time,
And I mean, I don't want to be unfair, but it's just
it's polarizing in that way where where I really love the Iro scenes and Suko
and the Aang scenes like continue to be like eh okay, Like I guess
we had to do this because it is Avatar. Mm hmm, yeah,
Avatar the no remaining Airbenders. Because we wrote the character out of the series,
I feel like, and that's a lot of that's my bias because I
love Iro, and but I started from a place where I was skeptical and
now I'm like on board, fully on board. And the flashback scenes are
mixed, are mixed, bag and I'm sure we'll talk about that as well.
Yeah, yeah, I asked for more Aang and Giatso yeah, I
mean that's the best Kato being a dick though, Like I kind of loved
everything except that last moment. What do you wis last moment? What are
you talking about? That? Like, when Ang sees him in the spirit
world, Ang says like, will I see you again when I come back?
And Giatsu clearly looks uncomfortable, because at least as I read it,
he knew that Ang won't. But he's no, don't worry, you'll see
me again. You'll see me again. Yeah, that's not being a dick.
That's saying what he thinks Aang needs to hear in order for Ang to
do what Ang needs to do and not have his friends die because he just
wants to chill with Giazzo. Is how I took it. I saw that
as a self sacrifice of I would love to spend more time with Aang,
and I would love to be able to tell Ang, no, this is
the last time I'm going to be able to see you. But I don't
think he was just like, all right, we had that conversation. Now
I'm gonna you know, move on to the other stages of enlightenment or something.
I think it was like he knew that that was all he was going
to have the opportunity to do to give and that if he tried to hold
Ang there, or that if he told Aang I'm not going to see you
again, then Aang wasn't going to want to go, and that what Ang
had to go do was important. Yeah, Okay, it was like Yoda
and Luke, but much more clear that leaving is the correct choice. I
think like it's it's still unclear in Empire whether Luke leaving and going to Cloud
City is the right choice and whether, like Yoda was just saying, you
know, what he needed to say as the master in this case, I
agree with Paul like Gyatso's role here or like his purpose was he had to
give Aang some wisdom. But yeah, when push comes to shove, it
was like he has to Aang has to go in and be the avatar and
save his friends, and that is what is going to enable him or help
him to save the world, right like his friends his friends in the real
world world. Yeah, I don't know, Yeah, And I do find
it fascinating that a lot of times it feels like you who are watching one
show and I'm watching another, because that's not how I read that at all.
What I I mean, I definitely agree with all the things you're saying.
I think I do believe though that he could have said, this is
the last time we'll talk Aang, but you need to, you know,
do what you need to do, and Ang would have done it. To
me, what, I guess a lot of it's gonna be how it plays
out. To me. The way it was framed, especially felt very much
like the point they were making was about this is yet another person who AG
feels is going to have abandon him, you know, in terms of how
like all of his friends are gone and things like that, and especially like
to the way they framed it in terms of it all being dark and sad
and things like that. I could be totally wrong, and again that's you
know, listeners, let us know. I also, I also think Greeky,
you and I have very different understandings of Yoda and umvirus strikes back.
But I've got a whole other podcast to talk about that, because I've never,
for a moment thought Yoda in any way thought Luke leaving was the right
thing. But that's a that's a different topic. I don't think it's presented
that way in the movies, But a lot of Star Wars is about reinterpretation,
right about like applying new lessons to things. So, especially for me,
the the Yoda that appears in the Last Jedi when he starts talking about
like failures, the Greatest Teacher or whatever, you know, that speech to
ghost Luke, putting that lens back on the Empire scenes, I think you
can start to see that Yoda letting Luke go and failing to you know,
defeat Vader is a lesson that he that Luke needed to learn in that moment.
Okay, that's fine, that's fine. Like the Last Jedi changed a
lot of things for me. You know, I'm like, yeah, does
this mean about the rest of Star Wars? I would take it more.
Yoda could be like, yeah, I failed, I was totally wrong.
You needed to go and you needed like mist of your friends. Yeah,
but regardless here and needed to save his friends because they're gonna potentially be in
more seasons and they need to go. Yeah. And the other thing is
like Monkiatso is not He's he's just him right, Like it's the spirit of
the human being, the former human being, And I think it's fair to
interpret it as like him, the human being didn't want to have like a
tearful goodbye with Ang because it would like hurt him too much. Yeah,
that's what I thought it was. That it was also it was as much
not in a self serving way, but as much that he didn't want to
have to go through it either. It just it just felt I felt so
sad for Ang when he came back like that, sure, but I felt
sad for Yes, it's like his like his performance in that scene was so
good and like when he when Ang leaves, like you can see it on
his face, like and so we as the audience we know and read that
and be like, oh, yeah, like I understand what's going on here
because like he looks so heartbroken. I really enjoyed that performance and what he
did with that scene. Yeah, for me, that that scene was like
was definitely one of the most important scenes and maybe certainly of that episode where
it I think it showed the extent to which like Aang was raised in such
a loving environment by a kind of parent figure who just loved him. Unconditionally
and was they had a deep friendship and the contrast between that and you know,
especially Zuko and his father, but even Socca and his father, you
know where Sokka and Zuko both have this like wanting to like make their fathers
happy, right, right, And like I don't feel like Aang had that,
like because he knew he didn't have to, right. Yeah, he
never helped me. He never felt he had to win Giatzu's approval. Yeah,
he never felt like he was ever going to be not enough as a
person. Like the Aang struggle is like whether he didn't feel like he could
be enough as the aviad hard right, And and I think Yatsu is saying,
like it's not your fault. It's nothing you could have done. You
couldn't have saved us. You just would have died with us. That that
line was so powerful monkey Kiazso don't make me cry. Challenge failed again as
soon as he showed up. I said that out loud. I was like,
don't make me cry. No, no, here we go. And
I could on yesterday's episode, you know, I was saying that I thought
that part of the resolution with ag and Boomy was that we're hopefully going to
get less of people saying, aang, how could you have abandoned us for
so long? And you guys may have been right that maybe that the more
people are going to say that, But I do think that this also strengthened
to AANG a lot more to be able to be like, I am not
carrying that guilt anymore. I feel like I've been absolved with a guilt so
that when other people say it, it's not going to make me feel it's
not gonna make me feel as guilty, which I which I think is a
big step forward and was just perfect in that in that scene. Yeah,
I agree, and then it can be Okay, what am I going to
do now? Right? Exactly? And that's what exactly I think I think
admamiral Jaw says to him too, right, like he's like, I would
worry more about your future than your past. Yeah, And it's like that's
that's really the lesson, you know, It's like you can't change your past.
It's like what are you going to do now? Right? And and
that's you know, we'll see the series. I also really liked that there's
a question that I have but everything that happened with Roku. The ability of
people to transport themselves at great speed across this world, including people riding big
animals to get to islands in the middle of nowhere, is reaching Game of
Thrones levels of confusion for me. But I did love everything that happened between
him and Roku, particularly Roku sort of saying kind of been in contrast to
Kyoshi, like you know, you are all of us, but also we're
you know, I was not Kyoshi, and you're not gonna me or her,
You're gonna be your own person, which felt like a really good point.
Yeah, like we're all different people, we just have the same like
spirit or something right the whole, I mean one of the things for the
whole kind of like past lives and reincarnation and all these things and spirit world
that like for me, like all this like life after death stuff, like
I don't dig it, like it usually deeply bothers me in fiction, I'd
say with an Airbender, it doesn't usually because mostly it's it's it's just just
a little different. But like the idea that the avatars are different people but
also the same is like kind of interesting, and I like that they underscored
that in terms of the travel they did specifically say like we're near the border
of the Fire Nation, and so maybe Roku Island is like not that far
from the border to the Earth Kingdom, you know. And and also that
that prison we haven't really they haven't given us like the Indiana Jones Raiders of
the Lost Ark, like the map right where they show you know, the
travel, which I would really enjoy for what it's worth. It was more
to me, like him getting there and back I'm okay with. It was
more that, as I understood it, like Jade captures him on that island.
Yes, so her beast like you can smell all the way to the
island. Fine, but like they go to the island then bring yeah yeah,
they bring it all the way back to meet up with Iro. That's
where yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's where travel sure, sure,
yeah, I mean it felt like a lot happened in a short period of
time. There was a lot of a lot of travel involved. And yeah,
it's for me, like I always go back to Star Trek, like
the galaxy is so big, and yet in Star Trek episodes they can always
get somewhere like within a day, and yet the Enterprise or whatever ship is
the main ship on the show, is the only ship in the Federation that
is capable of responding to this current crisis. So it's just it's like plot
plot convenience, like because these are the main characters, they have to do
the thing and we don't want to have to watch Like Oppa, I am
more understanding, Yes, because Apa is a flying beast and so it is
used to this. I don't know, like aang being able to fly on
his little glider for however, long distance seems less believable. I don't know
why. But and he didn't go with Opa, right, So yeah,
he specifically he left and Momo behind. Yeah. Yeah, I thought that
was very confusing. I think that's clearly just so he can get captured and
they don't have to figure out what to do with that. Yeah. And
also I thought he was going in the spirit world to Roku Island. Yeah,
somehow he just goes out been a better plan, although then I guess
you couldn't have grabbed the thing in the material world. It just that that
part felt kind of off and confusing to me. And in terms of the
scope of the world, I felt like when you had twenty episodes in season
one to Journey from the South to the North. Yeah, it felt epic,
right, It felt like this epic even though there were only twenty minute
episodes. It felt like there's so many stops along the way that it feels
like this epic journey where you're spanning the globe, right, Yeah, and
here it feels like we've got four stops, right, Like there's like very
few stiles. I mean, I know they're going all over. But like
in terms of like here, instead of having the seasons divvied up into like
the different elements, each of each pair of episodes that we've been discussing is
like a given element. Like these two were fire, right, two were
earth, The first two were air, the next two will presumably be water.
I have missed timed my sweatshirts to be properly, you know, coordinated.
So I'm like the day ahead by accident. But but I mean I've
got season three hair. So yeah, they did have the cute when Zuko
and Ira go to that bar. They did have a cute moment of oh,
hey, like we've heard stories about the Avatar. I heard he fought
those pirates. Yeah, the Canyon Guide. So for those who't know,
those are each individual episodes that take place, so they're basically saying all these
things happened, yeah, but like we don't get to see them basically,
yeah, which is like I I like that, Like if you're not going
to have the stories like mentioning that the stories happened, like, I wouldn't
mind if we had like a that's a short conversation on top of Appa where
the you know, Soka says something about like, oh, well that was
crazy that happened, hmm in the village or whatever. Yeah, they're basically
easter eggs for fans of the animated show. But it's a nice way to
layer in more of the journey, right that we are missing it just to
me, it feels like it still feels missing, you know, It's like
they're basically telling us it's part of the story, but in terms of the
journey, it makes the journey feel a lot shorter to me. Yeah,
and I do think that the the collection of stories that they put all into
Omashu for me, fit better than the stories they tried to push together here.
Yeah. The official Netflix live action series Drinking Game, by the way,
is every time you recognize another animated episode you you know, you take
a I don't know, a swig of water or whatever, because this should
be book on the water. But like it, Like I guess every episode
for me is like, okay, let's count how many episodes are in this
episode. Normally I will never recommend this, but if you need, like
it is a book of water, so like light beer counts. Sure.
I will say one thing that at one point that I kept wanting to bring
up in our first two episodes, and it should never quite fit. That's
fine because it's a small thing. But now I feel like it's really effective.
It is really good to comment on because I think they've done a good
thing with this. Every time I watch the bending, I thought fire bending.
They're throwing fire. It is burning people. This is badass earth bending,
Like they're throwing rocks, they're pulling up walls. I would say that,
I said it really loud, some reason. They're throwing rocks, They're
putting up walls like rock shards, Like this is deadly and awesome air bending
even like we're pushing people back dozens of feet. We're really kind of socking
it to them. And guitar God bless her. It felt like she just
kept throwing buckets of water on people. Like the way animated, it looked
very much like water, but it just kind of looked like they were getting
hit by a splash. And I love that now and also as a way
of showing how she is progressing in her abilities. Now she can freeze the
water, and she could do that kind of with jet into to incapacitate him
last episodes, but here that she's actually able to freeze the water and then
throw it as little ice shards as knives. I really like that because I
could see that people were reacting as though they got hit hit kind of hard
by something, but it always just looked a little off to me that it
was just it didn't look like they're just gonna splashed with water. I never
felt that way. I could see that. I like that they're describing how
her skills are advancing. I do feel one of the things with the pacing
here is I don't feel that kind of like through line of training and constantly
like I feel like it's referenced more than shown, you know. And maybe
maybe that's just the demands of a you know, eight episode live action here,
you know, but I would like to see more of that and more
of more of the training, you know. I mean we did get from
Azula training, but and by this point Aang should be water bending, right
right, I mean in the animated serious he is, yeah, trying to
learn. He's trying to get Katar to teach him, and then they're going
to the Northern Water tribe for him to learn here have they have they mentioned
that that, like he's going there to learn or is it just they're trying
to prevent some They're going to help those people, right, I have the
vision or whatever? Yeah, yeah, which to me feels right Kyoshi told
him. I think, yeah, right, And I feel like that I
want that to be. To me, that is central to the story is
the idea of training, is the idea of having a skill or a skill
set that you're trying to acquire, and that that's like the big journey really
in the story to me, both for Aang and for Katara, and I
love how and the animated series really get to see both of their journeys and
then later some other characters as well, right, And I feel like we're
getting a little bit of that, but less than i'd like, you know,
yeah, and it's not it doesn't feel central in the way it does
to me and the Yeah, and in general, like and stories like this,
I dislike when people are led to their next destination by like mystical visions.
You know. So yes, I agree that the purpose of going to
the Northern Water Tribe two for Aang to train as the avatar in Water Bending,
like it seems to be like a missing element here elements. I think
it's fair. I think it's fair. What do we all think of Zuko
in this because he obviously had some big plot development A plus give me all
the Zuko. Yeah, I feel like I think the acting has been amazing.
I think he's had some of the better writing in the series, like
some of the better lines to deliver. I think it's interesting how they really
are making him the driving force of kind of a lot of what's going,
like of his own. It's not really a transformation, Like I don't see
him having a redemption arc here. And I have a whole spiel that I
won't go into about how I don't really believe in the idea of redemption and
blah blah blah blah. But like, like I went for a walk and
I like was talking it in my head and I'm like, you know what,
I'm not, I'll spare you that, but like they I mean,
because I use the word redemption arc in the lead up thing, right,
but I feel like they're setting him up as such a sympathetic character already that
I do kind of wonder like what the payoff is going to feel like,
because I feel like he doesn't have that far to go, Like he did
have that explosive moment with Aang where he's like, you know, my father's
a great man, and then he literally quoted him, and they you know,
cut to the backstory where he basically gets that line out of his dad's
mouth, and this is this is something that I feel like, I feel
a sense of loss that it's not the same as the animated series, but
like we still have that. I feel like here they are trying to do
something interesting and different with the character and with the character of Ozi, because
there's something in that agne Kai that I felt like I picked up on that
was either there or it wasn't there. Either I imagined it or it was
deliberately you know, evoked by Daniel day Kim. But like I felt like
when Ozi was punishing Zuko and like branding him. I felt like he didn't
want to. I didn't feel like that was an act of malice. I
felt like it was a misguided act of thinking he was doing what he needed
to do as a father to toughen up his son because his father had presumably
treated him that way, and his father's father has had treated his father.
And it's to me that actually really underscores in a beautiful way, the you
know, the way somebody has to break the cycle of violence, somebody has
to break the cycle of abuse. Right, Yes, and Zuko is so
abused by his father, but it feels like his father was clearly abused by
his father, and that it went down like this, I agree, And
I felt one of the reasons I loved this episode so much these episodes is
I felt like this is when I finally got what they're doing with Zuko and
with Azula and with Ozia, Because first of all, we talked about that
maybe they were rushing Zuko's story a little bit much, and here I felt
like it actually really makes sense that in that moment, yes, he went
for Iro instead of the Avatar, but it's not because he has realized,
like the Avatar quest is hopeless or anything like that, he's still just as
much on it. And to me, that really gets to how conflicted this
guy is, and that to some extent it's that how important his uncle is
to him, but also that maybe he thinks he can't get the Avatar without
his uncle, you know, And so it's still this kind of makes place,
And I think there's something to be said for when the first time you
hear a story, a big part of the power of it is that you
go on a journey with a character and then there's big reveals towards the end.
When you retell that story, you have to decide are you telling it
for an entirely new audience are you telling it for the audience who's already seen
that version of the story. And it feels like here they've made a conscious
choice of instead of saying we're gonna make you feel negative towards Zuko because he's
the antagonist, and then slowly let you have sympathy for him, that here
we're really gonna make you have sympathy right out of the gate for Zuko and
now for Azula. Because by the end of this episode, I also felt
kind of sympathy for Azula, because what it really feels to me like is,
yes that Ozi did not in the animated version. It feels like Ozi
gives up on Zuko entirely wants him to go away forever, and now Azula
is the air this. It feels like he is very intentionally play I mean
it's very sith in a way. He wants to toughen up both Zuko and
Azula and play them off against each other so that they will both be as
callous and hard and you know, unmerciful, so that one of them will
emerge victorious and be the rightful heir to him and in that if that's where
they're going, I think now it makes sense to me why they're bringing in
Azula so quick, why they're doing some of the other stuff. It's not
the story I love, but maybe because we got that story, this is
a new way to do it. Yeah, I can see all that,
except for like sympathy for a Zula, Like I feel like she's malicious,
like she is like evil and that she it doesn't feel to me like this
she's been abused and she's like I feel like there was this like like like
she was enjoying watching Zuko suffer, you know, and also like when you
know, when she brought those like rebels in to get you know, immolated,
like that there's this pleasure, this this malice, this sadism that I
mean, yeah, obviously she also had a father who's you know, a
horrible person at least in terms of what his acts are, right right,
But like I feel like where she is now, I feel like she has
farther to go. I understand the kind of like maybe maybe i'd say,
I would I could co sign the word empathy, and I'm not saying you
shouldn't feel sympathy, but like I would say maybe some like I feel where
she's coming from. But like I definitely feel like some very very negative like
maybe more than OZI, like whatever OZI thinks he's supposed to be, Like
Azula is that, you know, which maybe a Zulan was. And so
to me, it's sort of like if you look at a child soldier who
is just vicious and brutal, do you focus on the evil, Like are
you like, oh, this child soldier is evil, or are you like,
this is a child who was raised in an incredibly evil situation, Like
do I want Azula to own free hell no, right, but I like,
I think all of that is true. But I think she and Zuko
are very much both products of their father's raising, and I have more I
want him to win the fight of them, but I also have some sympathy
towards her in terms of like you have also you have been taught that being
this horrible person is what is the right thing to do, and you probably
feel like you're winning because you're getting your father's love. But then like the
way that her father turns on her very quickly and is like, don't think
Zuko's out of the running, like and you know, yeah, you being
a candy at like you know, kiss ass, Like that's just as bad.
And I just feel like the malice is like something almost like innate,
Like is how it feels to me, you know, like it it feels
different, I guess, but I don't know. We'll see animated Azula.
The first word that comes to my mind is psychopath, right, yeah,
And in this one so far, like a injured singer earlier and like showing
more of what's been going on in the Fire Nation, she seems more cunning
and manipulative than I recall as Zula being mm hm, I feel like she
was cunning and manipulative and the like more in the like overtly threatening kind of
way. Yeah. Well, to me, like the way the way she
I don't want to spoil too much, but the way she takes the way
she takes over a certain group in the end of season two, yeah exactly.
Yeah, but but here it is she's like playing politics with the in
a way that like her being involved in the promotion of Jao right exactly.
But I'd say, at least does her being in it so early now make
more sense to you guys, because to me, I now feel like if
they were going to tell the exact story they told originally, there's no reason
her to be on screen. But I feel like I now understand the story
they're wanting to tell with her instead. I feel like, if you want
to tell as much of the Iro and Zuko backstory, like what happens before
the present day events, essentially before the main story, then it makes sense
to have more Ozi and more Azula. I think that makes sense for context.
I so it. To me, it does feel like it goes along
with the choice of telling a different Iro and Zuko story, So I feel
like that all fits together. Yes, yeah, well, and then at
some level it's very good. Go ahead, Well my answer is no or
not enough, Like, if they're gonna give us this much, I think
they should give us more and be drawing like more of a narrative through line
between what Iro is telling Zuko and then showing what Ozi is doing with Azula,
right, because like Zuko has an image of his father and the Fire
Nation and like I just want to get back or store my honor, et
cetera. And Ira keeps telling him like no, like you're wrong, like
it's it's not that great back there, and we're getting a little little of
it. But I think maybe if they showed us more, even even more
of it, Yeah, perhaps it does seem ironic to me that in a
way, I feel like this version of Ozi cares I think you were kind
of saying this earlier, cares more about his son than he does in the
animation, because to me, an animation, yeah, yeah, he's written
off his but yeah, yeah, he's written off his son entirely. It's
like, no, you challenged me, once you're done, whereas here it's
much more like I want you to learn this lesson because I do want you
to be strong enough to right, Like he wants Zuko to be his heir,
right, Whereas in the original series it's like he's accepted that as Zula
is his era and Zuko is like screw up son like his brother in right,
that the two of them are the disgraced kind of you know, yeah,
they can go off and scour the earth on some hopeless quests. Yeah,
and he genuine yeah, he genuinely seems to respect how Zuko found the
avatar, the fact that he corrects Azula when she says Commander Jao found the
avatar. He makes a point of saying, no, it was Zuko.
Yeah, And I do think that there's some kind of pitting the two of
them against each other there, but there's also just a genuine like, no,
I gave Zuko an impossible task and he succeeded. Ye. And then
in the next episode we see Aang talking to Zuko about basically like, hey,
you like did all this research on avatars, like you collected all this
information, and so it's clear that like Zuko took the challenge, like really
seriously, he wasn't just like you know, just running his boat around hoping
that he'd find a skybean someone. Yeah, you know, it's like one
thing I was thinking about that. I don't think it has been said ever
in either the animated or the live action, but at least fits in my
mind. I think that the fire always like a huge coincidence that Zuko just
happened to be in the area of the entire world where and gets defrosted.
But the more I thought about it, the where I realized they may well
think that the avatar died as part of the attack on the Air Air Air
Nomad Temple, which means the next Avatar should be in the Water Tribe and
so like him being specifically at the war in the Water Tribe area makes a
lot more sense. Then yeah, yeah, I mean, or or he
thought that he was somehow found out that he's probably of the Southern Air Temple,
and then yeah, but that would also explain why they were looking for
all the water benders. Oh yeah, yeah, that's true too, you
know. And in this one, I guess like Katara got her mom killed,
like what, Okay, So yeah, let's talk about the parentage of
Socca and Katara, because and here I wonder if again I'm going to be
often on my own or if this is Paul the kind of thing you were
talking about about, show not tell. In the show, we know and
we feel the incredible pain that Katara went through because of the death of her
mother. We never actually see that happen on screen, and we certainly don't
see that Katara is in any way responsible or like that there was the one
being protected. Specifically, Similarly, we know that Sokka feels this incredible pressure
to live up to the example that his dad's dad set and in the original,
as we commented on it in our you know, look back at the
animated one of the nice things is that they never actually make you know,
Hokkida, Hokkada, so Hakota thank you that they never make Haokota like,
actually this like bad guy who like ran out on his family or who like
made Sokka feel terrible. It's just that the situation made Sokka feel terrible,
right, and so having this having each of them have these horrible memories,
one that's some events we knew about but just made so much worse and shown
on screen, and the other being of like actually no Socca has a really
even more of a reason to feel bad it, Just like the animated was
much more subtle and trusted its audience a lot more, and this was much
more like, no, we have to make it like the exact thing that
you know would fit this bill. I felt hit over the head with it.
Yeah, sure, I will say that. I'll give them an out,
which they may or may not maintain as the series goes on. But
those were things that were showed to them by you know, the spirit.
Do we know that that's exactly how things happened? That's what I was thinking.
Yeah, kind of like a reverse black mercy, right, Yeah,
of like showing you like what you want most, like showing you your deepest
fear. And yeah, like that those events may have happened, but not
played out in exactly that way. And this is an exaggeration. I was
hoping that. But at some point the spirit says to uh, aang,
they're they're trapped in their darkest memories, which to me meant it was that
is it is specifically their memory, not like their own like fear interpretation that
like makes their memories twenty percent worse or whatever. Yeah, I mean again,
I think that leaves open the potential for an unreliable narrator. Basically where
yeah, the spirit is telling that to aang do I mean, do we
know this spirit's honest? Like, I think you're probably correct, or I
think the interpretation that you're giving, I think is probably what the writers had
intended. I think that's the most likely thing. I do think right now,
as of what's been on screen, it is open to interpretation. Like
I said, it's possible that future events will close the room for that interpretation
by adding, you know, by their being more explicit like reinforcement of what
happened, you know, and and assuming that it is actually exactly what happened
as we saw on screen. I don't like it that much, you know,
I wouldn't say I hate it, but like it it feels yeah.
Yeah, it's a weird interpretation of the show not tell, right, Yeah,
which is it's not a truism in storytelling. And I think the problem
is that when you say show not tell, it doesn't necessarily mean you have
to show a full flashback scene. It just means, like, don't have
the character say I'm really sad because my mom died, yes, killed by
fire vendors? Right, like you want to show the emotion through a scene
in the current story. Yeah, And I think there's just a constant kind
of stating of one's emotions or telling someone else about their emotions and how they
should deal with them. That just is it. I feel like it doesn't
leave enough room for the actors to kind of give give nuance. And I
think Zuko's one of the characters where they've succeeded the most with that because he
doesn't always say a lot, you know. I I think a lot of
the times, the less dialogue there is, and especially when you have live
action people who portraying the roles, that's one of the big advantages over animation
really is that animated face can be expressive, but it is very very difficult
for them to be as expressive and as nuanced in that expression as a human
face of like a skilled actor, right, especially in combination with the dialogue.
Yes, and I would say, like we forget this show is what
fifteen years old, twenty years old and animation? Yeah, animation, Like
I would say that, like what you just said, I think isn't necessarily
true about the facial expressions in Spider Man across the Spider Verse, but that's
also because that has much more advanced technology and a budget that's probably one hundred
times bigger to use that technology. I still think your general point of a
human face can convey emotion better than a drawing a human face is absolutely true.
I'm just saying that. I think that like with this show, not
only is that true, but also this is without the budget and without the
technology that we're getting used to and in shows today. Yeah, I think
it's I think more than like budget or technology, it's about stylistic choice,
like it is animation of like it's cartoon drawing right in a certain way.
It's it's the faces. The drawings are representations of what they are as opposed
to I mean, the Spider Verse movies have very different styles of animation within
them, and some of them are the kind of more hyperrealism, and some
of them are very like more Yeah, Spider Noir is not giving them right
exactly, and yeah, and so it is certainly possible. Personally, I
still feel like most kind of more photo real kind of animation still feels a
little bit of that kind of Uncanny Valley to me a lot of the time.
But yeah, but certainly you're right that there there are ways of animating
that you can give a little bit more, but still, well, I
just feel like it's almost never going to be as much as like, not
even just in terms of whether you can visually represent it, but like the
feeling that a person has. I think the reason a lot of people prefer
live action is the feeling they get of looking at real people, you know,
the faces of real people specifically. And I think that gets to the
point of this, why this It was so specific that we felt this way.
And here's kind of my own spin on show Don't Tell. I think
that the problem here is that what we should were in the end, what
we're supposed to see is not the exact way that their mother died. It's
Katara's reaction to it and her feelings about it. And so for us to
see we can either speak we can either see how she's feeling about it,
or we can be told exactly what happened, right, so that now we
can think, oh, well, of course, so Katara must feel this
right And they say the same way, and I do agree with you,
that's an out. Like I think, if you give me two minutes of
Katara and Socca talking about the things they were most afraid of. And you
know, Katar, like, there are things. There are times where I've
had fights with people where in my head, I know I got too angry,
and in my head I'm thinking about all the like the worst thoughts I
say when I'm angry, and I'll go to the person later and be like,
I'm so sorry, and like when I said this specific thing and they're
like, no, you never said that, And so I can imagine,
like, yeah, it's entirely possible that Socca never actually heard what his father
was saying, but he thought he didn't do well enough. Maybe some of
the other kids teased him, and yeah, so maybe in his head he
remembers that his father said that, and of him and Katara have that conversation
and he's like, no, Katara, mom died, you know, doing
this other thing or and he and she's like no, Soka, you know
dad never said that. Like that that would that would be all I need
because then I think it's much more what you're talking about. But we'll see,
say I feel like I don't want that either, but if it means
yeah, I'd be like, Okay, I'm glad. Matthew Saffy, I'm
saying, it's a way to confirm the out that you're giving it. Sure,
Sure, I still wish they just hadn't done it, Like yeah,
yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, yeah, the whole co the
face stealer in the original story that comes a little later, and it's only
Ang who goes into the spirit world and meets Co. Right, And in
fact, like this episode, the panda, badger, skunk spirit whatever it
is, like that was completely different. Yeah, right, because by the
end of this episode, Ang is supposed to have sued soothed that spirit and
it returns to its kind of more natural, less angry form, and that
just didn't happen here. He gave him like an acorn though. Yeah.
But yeah, I feel like that playoff wasn't there, right, That was
like I thought that was like the main point of like these two episodes,
right, and then and then we kind of serve swerved into co Yeah yeah,
yeah, And it was just it felt like to me about twice as
many stories as needed to be in one episode, or two episodes for that
matter. But I always liked more payoff on the forest as well. In
the Spirit of the Forest, Yeah, I felt weird because the one hand,
I wanted fewer stories. But I'm wondering if either of you felt this
way. I thought at first that we were going to get the Painted Lady
when we got to this town. That was like having all these spirit prom
you know, problems and other problems. I thought, maybe we're gonna get
to have that part of Katata's journey, which as much later, but you
thought they were going to put it in earlier. Basically was that season two?
I thought that was season one? I think season three? Yeah,
okay, never mind, that's fine. So the addition that I really liked
was the forty first Division. Oh yeah, addition right, because that the
war council scene agne Kai like that all exists, but the fact that the
forty first Division was assigned to Zuko's mission and the like the way that it's
revealed to them, and the respect that they show, like that played out
much better. And the animated show, I think, like Iro just tells
the story and it it could be implied, or it could have been planned
and just cut out, but they they never say that they're the forty first
Division. So the revelation of that was more powerful here or or was powerful.
And the respect that they showed to Zuko makes much more sense. And
they're like the show to Hotel, right, Like none of them say anything
like thank you for saving our lives, Prince Zuko. I guess they do
call him so yeah like that and just like the bows the respectful vows as
he walks past them, like that was that was great? That was perfect.
I love it, especially because I don't know if this was intentional or
if I'm just misreading it or something when we make it that specific. Part
of what that also means is that the argument that Zuko was making in that
war Council wound up like being what they did. They didn't attack with the
forty first, and I don't know if that means that the same attack happened
with a different group or if on some level it's also that the father like
is actually like, no, you made a good point, but you did
it in the wrong way, and so I'm punishing you, but I'm actually
doing what right right, Like they didn't actually follow through with the plan,
right, that's a really good point. I didn't even think about that.
It's like, yeah, I mean maybe he was just like, ah,
we won't even attack. I got to punish my son. Yeah, well,
get back to our military conquest later. The only thing I didn't like
about that was the way it was framed was, you know, Zuko treats
us really badly as our commanding officer, and zap Zau doesn't. And and
it was like Iro being like, well, yeah, but forget about how
badly he treats you, because you know he did this really nice thing for
you before, right, And if granted I'm a labor rights guy, like
I'm all for the unionized workers, like it, it felt a little dismissive.
I wish that they had that it had been framed more as we think
Zuko is gonna get us all killed, Joao is the way we're actually going
to get to go homes, Like there was much more about that rather than
specifically about like Zuko treats us badly, because there's been nothing done to make
Zuco treat them any better, right right, right, Zuko hasn't actually learned
like to not be a tool, Like he's still a tool to them,
right right. He saved their lives, and then maybe maybe there's some element
of resentment, right, Like I got scarred and off on this ridiculous quest
because I stood up for you guys and saved your lives, you know,
right, So maybe that's like an element there, But yeah, I agree
that, like he's still not a good commanding officer. Although they don't really
know much about whether Jao is a good commuting commanding officer or not, you
know, they just they it's like, oh, this is the new guy.
He hasn't been a tool to me yet right now, like, and
I don't know about you, Like yeah, And there's an extent to which
like Zuko and Iro are asking them to risk all their lives again because they're
directly they are now all in mutiny against the direct order from the fire Lord,
and so they're sort of all putting themselves on right. Yeah. Yeah,
I mean for me, this like Zuka the story you know, we're
going to get to redemption in the future, but this, this story that's
going on here in this episode is about him like growing, growing as a
leader, I guess. And yeah, you can say, like, well
he's just kind of been a dick to them, but I I think Paul
you said something about like he resents them like right, yeah, like Ozi,
the way Ozi presents this is like more of your punishment as more of
your punishment, I'm going to saddle you with these new recruits whose lives you
valued so much, and so yeah, like there there might be a bit
of resentment from Zuko that like he's in this position because he valued their lives,
right and he he doesn't because he's so young, like he doesn't see
yet the value of that as a leader, especially a military leader, right
like and so far like he has he has like every time I think Lieutenant
g like says something like we found the avatar, like we have a rumor,
like I'll sense a man. Zuko's like, no, I'm going with
Iro, which is kind of his like lack of trust right right, And
I think what has what has been broken through here in this episode is that
now there is a respect and a trust between them and maybe maybe there's still
enough time, like we'll get to see something come out of that, like
a positive development out of that. So like I really like the way that
this whole thing with the forty first and ge has played out. And then
I wrote too like like I continue to praise the Iro performance, especially in
the background, like Iro standing in the background, like I always pay attention
to because he'll have like a nod or a facial expression or something like a
look that passes between him and another character, and it's just great for sure.
Yeah, Like seeing him at the Agney Kai was like was pain,
you know, because he clearly thought it was horrible and abusive, but also
felt like he didn't really have the stand like there was only so much he
could do kind of you know, and I mean tried to step in,
but it's like he can't. He can't tell his brother what to do because
his brother's the fire lord now. And yeah, there's what did you think
about the like the voiceover, like the monologue, the Iro monologue in episode
six, and that's okay, Yeah, powerful have been on the nose.
Yeah, yeah, that's kind of how I felt. I felt like,
I don't feel like there was a better way of delivering these words, but
I'm not totally sure why they're here. You know. It felt a little
bit to me almost like the writers not trusting their episode like for the audience
maybe, you know, Yeah, like it was an attempt to tie all
of the stories together. Yeah, like if if there was some kind of
like I don't know, like how I met your mother aspect to it where
like he was talking to someone. It like, it just felt a little
weird to me that talking to us. Yeah, sure, sure, I
was just kind of like, why are we hearing Iro's voice and voiceover?
Yeah? I guess telling g the story? Is that what that was?
I don't think so. I feel like that would have made sense, That's
how I would have spun it. Yeah, you know what I mean.
But yeah, it did feel to me like this was it was kind of
like they're trying to make Iro sort of the narrator of this whole thing.
But that's weird because it made him even more of a subjective character than he
is in the original, right, Yeah, yeah, sure they did it
with Yatso as well, Like in a previous episode, I think there was
like Yatso voiceover, yeah, narration, Yeah, and there's I guess there
was I think Kyoshi like the intro or something with the earth air fire.
Yeah, that's something maybe to pay attention to on a rewatch I think.
So, yeah, is the voiceovers like whether if they're doing something where like
each one represents a character. Yeah, I'm just gonna interject with something completely
unrelated except about voiceover that I was I've been really enjoying The Only Murders in
the Building, partially because it has different characters doing voiceovers at different point because
it's a podcast and it just as you know, doing podcasting, and then
like you know, having thoughts about narration in film where like most of the
time it only really works for me, like in film noir, but like
you can, you know, the intro to the animated series really works,
like there is like at the beginning of every episode, it's like we're gonna
give you the whole framing of the series right here with Katara just telling you
this, and like here, They've kind of tried to do a few different
things with it, and it hasn't felt super congruous to me. But I
really, honestly, I'm actually really looking forward to rewatching the series. As
much as I didn't enjoy certain choices early on, I do feel like getting
to the end of this season and then understanding what they were going for rewatching
the whole season through that lens of like kind of understanding the story that they
want to tell. I do want to see how different it feels, because
like I deliberately didn't rewatch the original animated series because I didn't want to be
constantly comparing everything. Yet I find myself constantly comparison, Like I just can't
help it, you know. But once I've seen a whole chunk of it,
then rewatching it with itself as its own frame of reference instead the animated
series, I do wonder how different that experience is going to be. Yeah,
I think it's true. I mean I certainly feel like even just with
what we've learned so far makes me feel like I like the first episodes more,
you know, knowing what they're going for. I don't think I'm ever
going to think that first scene was necessary, but they'll be. They'll be
very different things because I already, like we did rewatch it before starting this,
and in the animated show, like the Kenyon Guide episode, which they
just like reference in the scene already was a pretty like low filler episode for
me, So more them kind of get out here and be like, yeah,
that happened, right right, Yeah, this is a pretty skippable episode.
I mean, I feel like season one certainly had more of any of
that than season two or three, you know, and was some some would
say of uneven quality, some would say just like not as good, some
would say, just like if you don't have tough in Azula, like it's
just not gonna be as good yet, you know. Yeah, but wait,
yeah right, Like I think I like season one more than most people
do, but I definitely feel like it. There's a lot of episodes to
me, but like that kind of episode, to me feels like it's not
so much the experience of that episode on its own, it's the feeling that
there have been a bunch of you know, quote unquote filler episodes, but
like episodic episodes that makes it feel like this journey to the North Pole to
the Northern Water Tribe feels like, ah, we're here finally now, whereas
like now I'm gonna like, oh, we're already here. You know.
Yeah, that was fast, And part of that, I think is that
it's a shorter amount of episodes. But part of it's also because you know,
we're watching it over three days and maybeople watching it over a full day,
you know, instead of like week to week or something like that.
Yeah, I mean I watched the original one, like the whole series in
like a week, So that's the first season was like or very I'll also
say, and there's kind of a general comment about fandom. But I think,
to me, this is really proving it this. I think they're doing
a very good job, especially in like those little reminders like oh yeah they
Canyon, the Canyon eventually went on. This to me is blowing the water
out of the idea of like, oh this new version ruined my childhood or
they forever ruined the show. Like they're very clearly doing this, and they're
like, no, we're doing something different. And like I imagine that the
viewership of the Canyon episode, for example, went up a little bit because
some people did watch that scene and go, oh, yeah, that was
a really cool episode. I liked that. I'm gonna pause this and go
back and watch it, you know, because you can, you know,
because there's no this is not erasing any of that stuff. And at any
point someone who can say, yeah, this isn't the version I love,
I can just go back and watch that version. We have that already.
Yeah, yeah that so that phrase like this new thing has ruined my childhood,
right, you know what ruined my childhood? Night? Right? I
love that writer? Like, have you have you watched it? Paul?
It was on Netflix last year and I tried to rewatch it. It's terrible.
It is an absolutely terrible show, like the misogyny of the character of
Michael Knight, Like this is all on the side, so we all have
But what I'm trying to say is we all have these fond memories of things
from our childhood, just like Live with That, and some of the stuff
is rewatchable, some isn't. But I don't like nothing new. Like if
they made a new night Writer and it was bad, I'm not gonna be
like this ruined night Writer for me, like very bad. So if you
love Avatar, the original Avatar, love that, and like we already had
this ruined it for us, like the live action movie in theory, like
ruined it quotes here, quotes right, but it didn't Like you can just
watch the animated show and it's still great. Yeah, yeah, I mean
I'll make a distinction between something like a remake and something that supposedly shares canon
with something where yeah, I've had to do a certain amount of mental work
to like be able to watch something that's supposed to take place within the same
framework as something else and be like, yeah, that's not part of my
head cannon, Like that's I'm exercising that, which you know, certainly with
Star Wars, I'm kind of separating certain things. But like the last two
seasons of Dexter or like, ah, there's another show I don't even want
to mention it, but like it. I loved the first two seasons.
The last two I was like, you have ruined this show for me.
Yeah, But then like, yeah, I guess I could still rewatch the
first or second, you know, but there's I do. Yeah, there's
a movie that I think ninety five percent of it is the best war movie
I've ever seen. Oh yeah, and the last few minutes are some of
the most manipulative offensive. And you can watch those movies. I now know
exactly when it hit paused to stop latching something about saving a private ye.
All right, back to Avatar a new topic, but go ahead, Okay.
At the beginning of one of these episodes, they're riding on APA and
they make they comment about like a past adventure, which is that Firebenders attacked
them because Sokka was flirting with a Roman girl who has ended up being a
Fire Nation soldier. Right that that never happened in the animated show, right,
Like, that's not a reference to an episode as far as I know,
and I kind of hated that because it's like, what about Suki.
I think they're softening the blizz See. I honestly think because episode two and
maybe some things that haven't happened yet are not that separated by a large number
of events, they're trying to insert an event that makes it feel like those
things will be more separated. Yes, so they're they're planting the seed of
soccer. Is a player, yes, essentially. I wouldn't even say as
a player. I would say as a fifteen year old boy. Yeah,
you know, I was fifteen and I fell in love with a new person
every three months, and well I was actually a player, so never mind.
Yeah, I was gonna say I was fifteen and I did it.
So I'm not saying that either of us is everybody, but I'm saying,
like I do, I was fifteen and I pined for the same girl for
like three years, So I need that out of Usaka. I'm just saying
that, like, the different people are different and SOCCA is not. And
the way his situation was, like if he was like, oh, yeah,
I'm gonna be back with Suki in three months, then yes, I
feel like that feels different. But I think the way that was set up
is that was like a beautiful moment at summer camp that the two of them
had and have no expectation of ever seeing each other again. Right, It's
it's just it's weird to me because it feels like the I just don't have
the feeling of a lot of time passing. Yeah, you know, and
it show don't tell. They're telling you that time. They're telling you that
time has passed. And you can tell someone something and then reinforce it with
some things that give you that feel. And I feel like they've done the
tell without them also showing some of the like I don't need a montage,
you know, but I need like I don't know, maybe you're changing terrain
or like, I don't know, give me a montage. I take it
back. I just rewatched the Training movies, which pretty much sorry, I
just be watched all the Rocky movies, which pretty much invented the modern concept
of the of the training montage, you know, like get and But if
you do them right, they are effective in what you need them to do,
which is show the passage of time. Yeah. The problem with a
montage is when you do a montage instead of actually giving any of a critical
piece of content, Like when you're trying to show two people falling in love,
and you like never show them talking to each other. You just show
them doing this and that and just kind of like like meaningless things. Buying
bread together at a farmer's market is the most loving thing you can do in
a relationship. Paul, Sure, but I just want to hear the talk
about whether it's sourdough or like or like you know, we like you know.
I'll give you an example of dialogue. I'll give you an example from
a movie that most of our listeners have probably never watched, so this is
probably an incredibly unhelpful example, but I think, uh, the actor playing
Commander Joo, one of the first things that I saw him in that Paul
had reminded me of was in that great movie called Keeping the Faith where he
played a karaoke singer. He played a karaoke salesman, and it did make
me really wish that part of the celebration at the end of you know,
when he's captured the avatar, that he was going to sing, because he's
got a very distinctive and wonderfully bad singing voice. But putting that aside,
at least that movie Keeping the Faith is I think my favorite rom com of
all time. It is a one of the thing is an autor love letter
to New York very much so in that it kind of like makes fun of
people who aren't from New York City, which is wonderful. I love,
I feel you, you get it. But in it, they show two
characters falling in love and show you three different incredibly romantic scenes of them connecting,
and then show you a montage of their relationship blossoming from their first night
together into them seriously dating a couple of months later. And to me,
it's it's a perfect example because I love the montage and it's said to a
wonderful song. But if you didn't have those three scenes at the beginning of
it, which they kind of with Paula Is saying, it wouldn't work at
all. So, yeah, give us a full training scene and then show
us like more of that happening, you know, give us a fully you
know, give us like a good adventure they have, and then show us
like three or more times of aang in a city helping people doing something and
Soka doing something silly in the background. Exactly, give the montage, but
don't skip the thing that the montage is basically saying, Hey, a bunch
of things like this happened. Yeah, And what you could do, like
in one of those montage scenes of like escaping fire Nation soldiers, is show
like the cabbage guy again, yes, yes, and like show him screaming
and they do it that way. Yeah, exactly. I want to shift
gears and talk about a different part of the episodes, in part because we
got some feedback about this. So we got an email from again I love
the names all come up with. This one is from you know Nothing John
Cena at gmail dot com, which is wonderful. Is he saying that John
Cena doesn't know? I say, John sena is John Snow right? No?
Yeah, yeah, so reference to you know nothing, John snow this
is nothing John Cena? All right. I never watched that, so that's
fair. So uh, they write, first time listening to the podcast.
But I'm loving your avatar coverage. Thank you so much, looking forward to
what else you cover. I was so psyched to see the Blue Spirit exclamation
point xlmation point. Okay, I had seen this when I I had already
seen this when I listened to your coverage of episodes three and four, and
when you talked about Ang asserting that's okay to stay a child, I kept
thinking of how he treats Zuko in these episodes. He doesn't see him as
an enemy. He really wants to be his friend in a way, I
think many of us adults quote unquote learn not to do and maybe the kids
are right. What do you think? Love the coverage? Thanks y kJ
say word, yeah, I really enjoyed how how Ange just like treated Zuko
like a person, you know, after Zuko rescued him, and then he
rescued Zuko and then he just talks to him. You know, he's like,
I have to ask you a serious question. You know, what kind
of calligraphy brush do you use? And then like they just talk to each
other like people. And then like Zuko remembers to be angry, you know,
but like he disarms him for a little bit, and then you know,
and then he disarms him again with you know, the airbending makes the
fire just go up and smoke, and then the boat the boat drift off
and you know that's it. But I I always that was the moment in
the original show when I kind of realized sort of who Zuko was and like
maybe who he was going to be. Yeah, you know, and here
I feel like they gave us a lot more of that before then, you
know. I mean there were signs in the first show to kind of make
them a little sympathetic, right, but not not quite to this extent where
like, you know, and it's still kind of self serving, like because
he's like, no, I don't want show to to rescue him. I
want to or to capture him. I want to be the one who captures
him. But like it's clear that there's you know, I think, on
the one hand, in the animated show, that scene is like kind of
more subtle in some ways because I don't think they talk. I think like
Zuko is like unconscious or something. You know. It takes place later,
right, Like this is a mashup, Like, yeah, it's sort of
later. I mean it's late in season one. Yeah, yeah, we're
late in season one, you know. Well, no, but it doesn't
feel like it because it happens when they get it's literally in the last because
it's when they get to the place that we're going to in season one,
it happens to at the North Pole. Yeah. What what happens in the
animated show is that Zuko succeeds in kidnapping Aang when he is in the spirit
world. That's when the coastuff. Oh right, yeah, yeah, yeah,
so he takes his body while it is yeah, his soul is in
the spirit world. Yeah, and then like Aang reconnects with his body and
they're in like an ice cave and they have this conversation essentially, right,
no, no, but I'm talking about the rescue. There's a scene,
there's a scene before yeah, yeah, where they don't have a conversation Blue
Spirit Rescue, Yeah, does happen, So like they've they've kind of meshed
those two together. Yeah yeah, okay, yeah yeah yeah. I was
referring to like the first time, not when they have the conversation, but
like when it's like a one sided conversation, when when Aang's just kind of
talking to unconscious Zuko, like you know, basically like, yeah, we
could have been friends. Yeah, you know, we were born in a
different time kind of. And but here the this was like a more direct
sort of instance of that, which is more like when they're in the in
the cave. Yeah, yeah, I found it effective, you know.
I I that was aside from like when he's with Giazzo, Like that was
some of the Aang I've enjoyed the most, you know. And I definitely
felt like as are our John Cena loving or or or disparaging friend, depend
on how you want to read it. I think you're right that, like
the this is set up perfectly by the by Boomy saying like you're a child
and angry owning that and being like, yeah, I'm not going to change,
you know, right, yeah, exactly, like I'm I'm going to
you know. I mean there's like a saying like empty your cop, right,
and like I think Aang has a very empty cop a lot of the
time, where he's willing to take people as they are and doesn't have a
lot of preconceptions and doesn't see why things can't be a way that nobody else
thinks they can be just because nobody because that's not how they are, Like
it's like white, why not? You know. But it's very much the
concept of look to the future, not the past, because not only for
yourself, but also like, yeah, Zuko has tried to attack me in
the past, but I want to know what will Zuko do in the future
and how can I influence that. Yeah, and it's a good reminder that
Zuko is also a child, you know, a teenager like not an adult,
not fully an adult. And it was nice to see that moment from
him. But it was also nice to see him revert to form, right,
yeah, yeah, because I yeah, I think said earlier, like
Zuko's performance, Dallas's performance not just with dialogue, but just like his facial
expressions of his anger, like is really effective for me. And it's such
an essential His anger is such an essential part of his character, and to
be able to express that not just with words or even like with yells,
but just with a glare is lovely to see for sure. And and that
mixed with like the inner conflict and the yells. Though we did get one
really good Zuko you know. It's like, oh that there is Yeah,
yeah, you're right. I think it was when on the ship right with
Iro, where Iro is like trying to tell him something like that he needs
to do or not do. He's just like yeah, but he's able to
convey that same emotion also just with with a look and yeah, and yeah,
he and Ken Leung continue to be Joo or Joo, which the different
characters are pronouncing it different ways. But I guess I'll mostly say Joao because
that's how the character himself is saying his name. Yeah, but they continue
to be like my two top performances of just like really standout performances. Yeah.
Yeah, the the joo like writing speech, Oh yes, was so
good. Yeah, it's like so slimy. Yeah it really is. Now
I don't write that. I don't want to focus on this for too long.
We haven't talked about it all, Yetcause I don't think it's real.
They come up, But can we agree that if you're standing at the top
of a tall wall, like a fairly high up wall, and a gust
of air quite like concussively hits you and knocks you off that wall, that
the chance of lethality happening upon your reaching the ground is not insignificant. Nope.
I watched that scene. I was like, oh, man, like,
seriously, that was my first reaction. But Zuko's carving people up with
those blades, like that's not arguable. I don't think no, no,
it is. He I mean, I think it's mostly weapon on weapon and
like not like it's comic book violence. I mean, I know, I
know. My wife turned to me. It was like she was like,
well, that's got to kill some people, right, I'm like, no,
it doesn't. Like I understand physics in the world that we inhabit,
and I understand physics in the world that they inhabit, and I understand that
those are not the same physics or biologies. Is like, yeah, like
science just doesn't work the same in those worlds. And yes, falling off
of something that high in our world is not a good idea. And if
you knock someone off of something like that, you might kill them. Mm
hmm. In their world, the wind, what happens, The gust of
wind will push in their fall exactly, it'll'll like a pillow. It'll lift
them up just before they they might get there because they're lifted up by the
wind, and exactly the wind is carrying man like, they'll still fall hard.
Yes, that's my logic. All I know is in the Spider in
the Spider Man video game, which is awesome, you are constantly knocking bad
guys off of roofs, and then the camera is making sure that you see
that the guy is like webbed up along the side of the building. You
know, you know, don't so I just want to see that gust once,
right, yeah, fortunately, and uh yeah, I mean I do
think like in an animated series, I think they often not necessarily every time,
but like usually we'll show no, look they didn't die, they're okay.
The parachute Joe the Spider Man is a is a poignant example though,
because you know they did that musical and that was awful. Oh yeah,
that's which underscores that falling from heights is very bad. Really laugh but yes,
yeah, yeah, no, it's yeah, it's on this cheery note.
We've been a little while. Don have some last things they want to
bring up. H I don't know. George takes has face Steeler co Okay.
I was wondering if that's who that was. I thought that's what his
voice, who that voice was, which is fair because he he runs the
prison that is specifically mentioned in one of the other episodes, I believe,
so I'd of glad that he said he like he still got in. It's
fun to have him. I don't have anything to add to that, just
that he's fantastic. So just keep keep putting him in things. Thank you.
Yeah, yeah, I guess I would just add like I'm I'm looking
forward to seeing the last two episodes. I might watch them right after we
wrap, and then I might watch all the episodes tomorrow, like while playing
poker or some thing. I don't know, we'll see, Like I kind
of really am looking forward to the feel of like seeing everything in a kind
of like in a row, sort of like in my feeling, like as
it's meant to be seen, as we have denied ourselves for all your podcasting
listening pleasure, ye we you know it. It's not a show that like
after the first two episodes, I was like, oh man, I'm like
really have to listen watch three and four right away, you know, and
honestly, you know where the story is going. It does? It does?
Yeah, and it you know, I know we're building to a climax
end of season. But like if we had done one episode at a time,
I don't know. The first episode, I had time getting through it,
you know, like I literally turned it off twice and thought, like
I do I have to tell Matthew that like it's like you two have fun,
you know, And then I mean I was fully ready for it and
especial especially like if Aang had reached for the meat I just done. No,
No, I would, I would. I would definitely want to be
on that episode. Yeah, some words that some words, but but yeah,
I'm I'm. I feel like they have availed themselves well from where they
started. And I did go back and rewatch like the bit that I'd skipped,
and it was maybe not as bad as I thought it was maybe going
to be, but like it just it really yeah yeah, and like maybe
because I'd already seen further ahead, you know. Yeah, but and like
it's it is cool to see like Airbenders do, like cool Airbender things.
I mean, it sucks that they're all getting killed, but like it actually
did make it feel like really like could they really wipe them all out?
Like it feels like any other day? Yeah, yeah, And I did
kind of like that line too, you know, like on any other day,
you know, you might be able to defeat me, but not today.
But yeah, it I feel like they've they've chosen a tone mostly,
you know, they've chosen a direction and made some serious choices that aren't the
ones I would have made. But I think aside from some really on the
nose dialogue. I think they've overall done a pretty good job of doing of
telling the story that they've decided to tell, and I just view it like
I'm watching a different story about the same ish characters, and yeah, some
of the performances are really what sells it for me, you know. I
think that's where I am. And we talked a lot actually before we sat
down for this project about how did we want to do it, because but
Paul and I really love binging. I think I generally prefer this method of
consuming new media than waiting week to week, especially when it feels like the
artificial you know, cliffhangers and stuff like that. And I think I think
we were correct that if we had watched all eight episodes, you know,
when we tried to record on the first two, we have already known where
they were going. And I think it was actually helpful to be able to
be like, yeah, we're watching this right after we've seen it, we
don't know and then because then it feels a lot more satisfying to talk about
these later things. And I think for me, at least, I feel
like if I had binged this on my own, I would have been I've
been having so many feelings and how many like am I wrong? Do this
feel really off? And like it's felt really validating a time to have like
us all agreeing. I'm like, yeah, that felt really off, or
like this is kind of working, and you know, then a couple of
times I'm way out in the woods, you two or somewhere else, and
that's fine too, But I felt like I would have probably been stopping and
like checking Twitter to like get all that sort of my opinions before. So
actually, I really liked doing this, and I really I'm glad we've done
this. I'm glad we're gonna wrap it up tomorrow and then yeah, I
probably will sit down and watch the whole thing as well again. So and
I know that we have a number of kind come and get this show is
beloved to a lot of the people who've been on this podcast and been on
our Star Wars podcast, so on surprising, We're definitely gonna have them come
on as well. I'm supposed to say this at the beginning of the episodes,
I'm getting bad about I'm getting better at that slowly, but obviously did
not come with the beginning of the episode, but we do have lots of
social media. You can find us. The comment from you know nothing came
through by email, but you can find us in email, Twitter, TikTok,
Instagram all the ways to do that, or in the show notes.
In the show notes. Also is we're turning onto our website, Theethicalpana dot
com. You can find out all the ways to become a member as a
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bonus content both at the end of every episode and as well as some bonus
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Like to subscribe, become members. All of this great ways to do it.
So thank you all so much for listening on behalf of myself, Greeky
and Paul, thank you all so much. Yip Yip oh, someone just
became a member the Light one Brighter. No, I don't know what I
was supposed to say. I haven't given Paul that right to that now,
HM, and what U