WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:10.560 Hello, Welcome to this episode of Superhero Ethics. Today we are continuing our 2 00:00:10.640 --> 00:00:15.880 journey through Avatar the Last Airbender, the Netflix Live Action Edition with episodes five 3 00:00:15.960 --> 00:00:21.399 and six, and once again I'm joined by Riki of Wikipedia and Paul's the 4 00:00:21.519 --> 00:00:24.839 Zen Madman. What do you think these episodes? I liked them more than 5 00:00:24.879 --> 00:00:27.800 I liked the previous two, which I liked more than the previous two, 6 00:00:27.879 --> 00:00:32.920 so that that feels good. Yeah, going in a good direction. I'm 7 00:00:32.920 --> 00:00:40.640 continuing on my trend of Iro Yes Ang No that I started with last time, 8 00:00:41.960 --> 00:00:45.119 And I mean, I don't want to be unfair, but it's just 9 00:00:46.280 --> 00:00:51.840 it's polarizing in that way where where I really love the Iro scenes and Suko 10 00:00:53.079 --> 00:00:58.000 and the Aang scenes like continue to be like eh okay, Like I guess 11 00:00:58.039 --> 00:01:04.719 we had to do this because it is Avatar. Mm hmm, yeah, 12 00:01:06.319 --> 00:01:11.560 Avatar the no remaining Airbenders. Because we wrote the character out of the series, 13 00:01:12.400 --> 00:01:15.120 I feel like, and that's a lot of that's my bias because I 14 00:01:15.159 --> 00:01:19.239 love Iro, and but I started from a place where I was skeptical and 15 00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:26.280 now I'm like on board, fully on board. And the flashback scenes are 16 00:01:26.480 --> 00:01:30.640 mixed, are mixed, bag and I'm sure we'll talk about that as well. 17 00:01:30.719 --> 00:01:36.519 Yeah, yeah, I asked for more Aang and Giatso yeah, I 18 00:01:36.560 --> 00:01:41.680 mean that's the best Kato being a dick though, Like I kind of loved 19 00:01:41.719 --> 00:01:45.239 everything except that last moment. What do you wis last moment? What are 20 00:01:45.239 --> 00:01:49.000 you talking about? That? Like, when Ang sees him in the spirit 21 00:01:49.079 --> 00:01:53.040 world, Ang says like, will I see you again when I come back? 22 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:57.640 And Giatsu clearly looks uncomfortable, because at least as I read it, 23 00:01:57.680 --> 00:02:00.519 he knew that Ang won't. But he's no, don't worry, you'll see 24 00:02:00.599 --> 00:02:04.239 me again. You'll see me again. Yeah, that's not being a dick. 25 00:02:04.439 --> 00:02:08.400 That's saying what he thinks Aang needs to hear in order for Ang to 26 00:02:08.439 --> 00:02:13.120 do what Ang needs to do and not have his friends die because he just 27 00:02:13.159 --> 00:02:16.960 wants to chill with Giazzo. Is how I took it. I saw that 28 00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:23.520 as a self sacrifice of I would love to spend more time with Aang, 29 00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:25.680 and I would love to be able to tell Ang, no, this is 30 00:02:25.719 --> 00:02:29.680 the last time I'm going to be able to see you. But I don't 31 00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:31.240 think he was just like, all right, we had that conversation. Now 32 00:02:31.280 --> 00:02:36.919 I'm gonna you know, move on to the other stages of enlightenment or something. 33 00:02:36.960 --> 00:02:40.000 I think it was like he knew that that was all he was going 34 00:02:40.080 --> 00:02:46.599 to have the opportunity to do to give and that if he tried to hold 35 00:02:46.639 --> 00:02:49.840 Ang there, or that if he told Aang I'm not going to see you 36 00:02:49.919 --> 00:02:53.240 again, then Aang wasn't going to want to go, and that what Ang 37 00:02:53.360 --> 00:02:59.120 had to go do was important. Yeah, Okay, it was like Yoda 38 00:02:59.159 --> 00:03:04.120 and Luke, but much more clear that leaving is the correct choice. I 39 00:03:04.159 --> 00:03:08.840 think like it's it's still unclear in Empire whether Luke leaving and going to Cloud 40 00:03:08.879 --> 00:03:14.800 City is the right choice and whether, like Yoda was just saying, you 41 00:03:14.840 --> 00:03:16.639 know, what he needed to say as the master in this case, I 42 00:03:16.680 --> 00:03:23.039 agree with Paul like Gyatso's role here or like his purpose was he had to 43 00:03:23.240 --> 00:03:28.080 give Aang some wisdom. But yeah, when push comes to shove, it 44 00:03:28.159 --> 00:03:31.159 was like he has to Aang has to go in and be the avatar and 45 00:03:31.199 --> 00:03:36.319 save his friends, and that is what is going to enable him or help 46 00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:40.120 him to save the world, right like his friends his friends in the real 47 00:03:40.800 --> 00:03:46.520 world world. Yeah, I don't know, Yeah, And I do find 48 00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:47.719 it fascinating that a lot of times it feels like you who are watching one 49 00:03:47.719 --> 00:03:52.719 show and I'm watching another, because that's not how I read that at all. 50 00:03:52.840 --> 00:03:55.800 What I I mean, I definitely agree with all the things you're saying. 51 00:03:55.879 --> 00:04:00.319 I think I do believe though that he could have said, this is 52 00:04:00.360 --> 00:04:02.000 the last time we'll talk Aang, but you need to, you know, 53 00:04:02.039 --> 00:04:04.680 do what you need to do, and Ang would have done it. To 54 00:04:04.800 --> 00:04:08.400 me, what, I guess a lot of it's gonna be how it plays 55 00:04:08.439 --> 00:04:12.560 out. To me. The way it was framed, especially felt very much 56 00:04:12.639 --> 00:04:15.439 like the point they were making was about this is yet another person who AG 57 00:04:15.480 --> 00:04:18.519 feels is going to have abandon him, you know, in terms of how 58 00:04:18.560 --> 00:04:23.680 like all of his friends are gone and things like that, and especially like 59 00:04:23.720 --> 00:04:26.000 to the way they framed it in terms of it all being dark and sad 60 00:04:26.040 --> 00:04:29.519 and things like that. I could be totally wrong, and again that's you 61 00:04:29.519 --> 00:04:33.639 know, listeners, let us know. I also, I also think Greeky, 62 00:04:33.639 --> 00:04:36.680 you and I have very different understandings of Yoda and umvirus strikes back. 63 00:04:36.920 --> 00:04:41.279 But I've got a whole other podcast to talk about that, because I've never, 64 00:04:41.319 --> 00:04:44.519 for a moment thought Yoda in any way thought Luke leaving was the right 65 00:04:44.519 --> 00:04:49.639 thing. But that's a that's a different topic. I don't think it's presented 66 00:04:49.720 --> 00:04:57.600 that way in the movies, But a lot of Star Wars is about reinterpretation, 67 00:04:58.720 --> 00:05:05.600 right about like applying new lessons to things. So, especially for me, 68 00:05:05.959 --> 00:05:11.480 the the Yoda that appears in the Last Jedi when he starts talking about 69 00:05:11.519 --> 00:05:15.560 like failures, the Greatest Teacher or whatever, you know, that speech to 70 00:05:15.720 --> 00:05:21.000 ghost Luke, putting that lens back on the Empire scenes, I think you 71 00:05:21.040 --> 00:05:28.160 can start to see that Yoda letting Luke go and failing to you know, 72 00:05:28.240 --> 00:05:32.000 defeat Vader is a lesson that he that Luke needed to learn in that moment. 73 00:05:34.240 --> 00:05:39.240 Okay, that's fine, that's fine. Like the Last Jedi changed a 74 00:05:39.279 --> 00:05:41.920 lot of things for me. You know, I'm like, yeah, does 75 00:05:42.040 --> 00:05:45.399 this mean about the rest of Star Wars? I would take it more. 76 00:05:45.560 --> 00:05:46.759 Yoda could be like, yeah, I failed, I was totally wrong. 77 00:05:46.959 --> 00:05:49.959 You needed to go and you needed like mist of your friends. Yeah, 78 00:05:50.399 --> 00:05:55.959 but regardless here and needed to save his friends because they're gonna potentially be in 79 00:05:56.040 --> 00:06:00.000 more seasons and they need to go. Yeah. And the other thing is 80 00:06:00.160 --> 00:06:06.399 like Monkiatso is not He's he's just him right, Like it's the spirit of 81 00:06:06.439 --> 00:06:13.040 the human being, the former human being, And I think it's fair to 82 00:06:13.120 --> 00:06:15.879 interpret it as like him, the human being didn't want to have like a 83 00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:20.360 tearful goodbye with Ang because it would like hurt him too much. Yeah, 84 00:06:20.360 --> 00:06:23.480 that's what I thought it was. That it was also it was as much 85 00:06:24.040 --> 00:06:26.560 not in a self serving way, but as much that he didn't want to 86 00:06:26.600 --> 00:06:30.040 have to go through it either. It just it just felt I felt so 87 00:06:30.120 --> 00:06:32.639 sad for Ang when he came back like that, sure, but I felt 88 00:06:32.680 --> 00:06:38.319 sad for Yes, it's like his like his performance in that scene was so 89 00:06:38.439 --> 00:06:41.680 good and like when he when Ang leaves, like you can see it on 90 00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:46.399 his face, like and so we as the audience we know and read that 91 00:06:46.519 --> 00:06:48.480 and be like, oh, yeah, like I understand what's going on here 92 00:06:48.560 --> 00:06:54.920 because like he looks so heartbroken. I really enjoyed that performance and what he 93 00:06:54.959 --> 00:06:58.680 did with that scene. Yeah, for me, that that scene was like 94 00:06:59.240 --> 00:07:03.879 was definitely one of the most important scenes and maybe certainly of that episode where 95 00:07:04.680 --> 00:07:11.519 it I think it showed the extent to which like Aang was raised in such 96 00:07:11.519 --> 00:07:16.759 a loving environment by a kind of parent figure who just loved him. Unconditionally 97 00:07:17.480 --> 00:07:26.759 and was they had a deep friendship and the contrast between that and you know, 98 00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:30.720 especially Zuko and his father, but even Socca and his father, you 99 00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:40.800 know where Sokka and Zuko both have this like wanting to like make their fathers 100 00:07:40.839 --> 00:07:44.959 happy, right, right, And like I don't feel like Aang had that, 101 00:07:45.160 --> 00:07:46.680 like because he knew he didn't have to, right. Yeah, he 102 00:07:46.759 --> 00:07:50.160 never helped me. He never felt he had to win Giatzu's approval. Yeah, 103 00:07:50.199 --> 00:07:54.199 he never felt like he was ever going to be not enough as a 104 00:07:54.240 --> 00:07:59.000 person. Like the Aang struggle is like whether he didn't feel like he could 105 00:07:59.000 --> 00:08:03.279 be enough as the aviad hard right, And and I think Yatsu is saying, 106 00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:07.680 like it's not your fault. It's nothing you could have done. You 107 00:08:07.720 --> 00:08:13.480 couldn't have saved us. You just would have died with us. That that 108 00:08:13.519 --> 00:08:20.040 line was so powerful monkey Kiazso don't make me cry. Challenge failed again as 109 00:08:20.040 --> 00:08:22.360 soon as he showed up. I said that out loud. I was like, 110 00:08:22.399 --> 00:08:26.800 don't make me cry. No, no, here we go. And 111 00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:31.279 I could on yesterday's episode, you know, I was saying that I thought 112 00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:39.759 that part of the resolution with ag and Boomy was that we're hopefully going to 113 00:08:39.799 --> 00:08:43.080 get less of people saying, aang, how could you have abandoned us for 114 00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:46.200 so long? And you guys may have been right that maybe that the more 115 00:08:46.240 --> 00:08:50.159 people are going to say that, But I do think that this also strengthened 116 00:08:50.159 --> 00:08:52.759 to AANG a lot more to be able to be like, I am not 117 00:08:52.879 --> 00:08:56.879 carrying that guilt anymore. I feel like I've been absolved with a guilt so 118 00:08:56.919 --> 00:09:00.600 that when other people say it, it's not going to make me feel it's 119 00:09:00.600 --> 00:09:01.879 not gonna make me feel as guilty, which I which I think is a 120 00:09:01.879 --> 00:09:05.879 big step forward and was just perfect in that in that scene. Yeah, 121 00:09:05.919 --> 00:09:09.360 I agree, and then it can be Okay, what am I going to 122 00:09:09.440 --> 00:09:13.120 do now? Right? Exactly? And that's what exactly I think I think 123 00:09:13.159 --> 00:09:18.320 admamiral Jaw says to him too, right, like he's like, I would 124 00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:22.799 worry more about your future than your past. Yeah, And it's like that's 125 00:09:22.919 --> 00:09:26.519 that's really the lesson, you know, It's like you can't change your past. 126 00:09:26.600 --> 00:09:28.720 It's like what are you going to do now? Right? And and 127 00:09:28.759 --> 00:09:35.519 that's you know, we'll see the series. I also really liked that there's 128 00:09:35.559 --> 00:09:39.919 a question that I have but everything that happened with Roku. The ability of 129 00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:46.240 people to transport themselves at great speed across this world, including people riding big 130 00:09:46.279 --> 00:09:48.759 animals to get to islands in the middle of nowhere, is reaching Game of 131 00:09:48.840 --> 00:09:54.679 Thrones levels of confusion for me. But I did love everything that happened between 132 00:09:54.759 --> 00:10:01.320 him and Roku, particularly Roku sort of saying kind of been in contrast to 133 00:10:01.559 --> 00:10:05.039 Kyoshi, like you know, you are all of us, but also we're 134 00:10:05.159 --> 00:10:07.000 you know, I was not Kyoshi, and you're not gonna me or her, 135 00:10:07.240 --> 00:10:11.000 You're gonna be your own person, which felt like a really good point. 136 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:13.759 Yeah, like we're all different people, we just have the same like 137 00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:18.200 spirit or something right the whole, I mean one of the things for the 138 00:10:18.519 --> 00:10:24.600 whole kind of like past lives and reincarnation and all these things and spirit world 139 00:10:24.639 --> 00:10:28.240 that like for me, like all this like life after death stuff, like 140 00:10:28.279 --> 00:10:33.120 I don't dig it, like it usually deeply bothers me in fiction, I'd 141 00:10:33.159 --> 00:10:39.440 say with an Airbender, it doesn't usually because mostly it's it's it's just just 142 00:10:39.519 --> 00:10:43.559 a little different. But like the idea that the avatars are different people but 143 00:10:43.639 --> 00:10:50.600 also the same is like kind of interesting, and I like that they underscored 144 00:10:50.639 --> 00:10:54.399 that in terms of the travel they did specifically say like we're near the border 145 00:10:54.440 --> 00:11:01.080 of the Fire Nation, and so maybe Roku Island is like not that far 146 00:11:01.240 --> 00:11:05.159 from the border to the Earth Kingdom, you know. And and also that 147 00:11:05.159 --> 00:11:11.799 that prison we haven't really they haven't given us like the Indiana Jones Raiders of 148 00:11:11.799 --> 00:11:15.919 the Lost Ark, like the map right where they show you know, the 149 00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:20.440 travel, which I would really enjoy for what it's worth. It was more 150 00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:22.720 to me, like him getting there and back I'm okay with. It was 151 00:11:22.799 --> 00:11:28.000 more that, as I understood it, like Jade captures him on that island. 152 00:11:28.200 --> 00:11:31.559 Yes, so her beast like you can smell all the way to the 153 00:11:31.559 --> 00:11:35.440 island. Fine, but like they go to the island then bring yeah yeah, 154 00:11:35.480 --> 00:11:39.600 they bring it all the way back to meet up with Iro. That's 155 00:11:39.679 --> 00:11:45.320 where yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's where travel sure, sure, 156 00:11:45.399 --> 00:11:48.159 yeah, I mean it felt like a lot happened in a short period of 157 00:11:48.159 --> 00:11:52.639 time. There was a lot of a lot of travel involved. And yeah, 158 00:11:52.840 --> 00:11:58.320 it's for me, like I always go back to Star Trek, like 159 00:11:58.519 --> 00:12:03.159 the galaxy is so big, and yet in Star Trek episodes they can always 160 00:12:03.159 --> 00:12:07.639 get somewhere like within a day, and yet the Enterprise or whatever ship is 161 00:12:07.679 --> 00:12:11.200 the main ship on the show, is the only ship in the Federation that 162 00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:18.600 is capable of responding to this current crisis. So it's just it's like plot 163 00:12:18.759 --> 00:12:20.919 plot convenience, like because these are the main characters, they have to do 164 00:12:20.960 --> 00:12:26.399 the thing and we don't want to have to watch Like Oppa, I am 165 00:12:26.440 --> 00:12:33.759 more understanding, Yes, because Apa is a flying beast and so it is 166 00:12:33.879 --> 00:12:39.039 used to this. I don't know, like aang being able to fly on 167 00:12:39.159 --> 00:12:43.559 his little glider for however, long distance seems less believable. I don't know 168 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:48.440 why. But and he didn't go with Opa, right, So yeah, 169 00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:52.159 he specifically he left and Momo behind. Yeah. Yeah, I thought that 170 00:12:52.240 --> 00:12:56.200 was very confusing. I think that's clearly just so he can get captured and 171 00:12:56.240 --> 00:12:58.559 they don't have to figure out what to do with that. Yeah. And 172 00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:05.919 also I thought he was going in the spirit world to Roku Island. Yeah, 173 00:13:05.960 --> 00:13:09.559 somehow he just goes out been a better plan, although then I guess 174 00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:11.679 you couldn't have grabbed the thing in the material world. It just that that 175 00:13:11.720 --> 00:13:16.120 part felt kind of off and confusing to me. And in terms of the 176 00:13:16.200 --> 00:13:20.600 scope of the world, I felt like when you had twenty episodes in season 177 00:13:20.679 --> 00:13:26.320 one to Journey from the South to the North. Yeah, it felt epic, 178 00:13:26.840 --> 00:13:28.600 right, It felt like this epic even though there were only twenty minute 179 00:13:28.600 --> 00:13:33.360 episodes. It felt like there's so many stops along the way that it feels 180 00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:37.279 like this epic journey where you're spanning the globe, right, Yeah, and 181 00:13:37.559 --> 00:13:41.879 here it feels like we've got four stops, right, Like there's like very 182 00:13:41.960 --> 00:13:45.320 few stiles. I mean, I know they're going all over. But like 183 00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:50.799 in terms of like here, instead of having the seasons divvied up into like 184 00:13:50.840 --> 00:13:56.159 the different elements, each of each pair of episodes that we've been discussing is 185 00:13:56.240 --> 00:14:00.159 like a given element. Like these two were fire, right, two were 186 00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:03.159 earth, The first two were air, the next two will presumably be water. 187 00:14:03.440 --> 00:14:07.399 I have missed timed my sweatshirts to be properly, you know, coordinated. 188 00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:13.039 So I'm like the day ahead by accident. But but I mean I've 189 00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:20.120 got season three hair. So yeah, they did have the cute when Zuko 190 00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:24.360 and Ira go to that bar. They did have a cute moment of oh, 191 00:14:24.440 --> 00:14:28.720 hey, like we've heard stories about the Avatar. I heard he fought 192 00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:31.960 those pirates. Yeah, the Canyon Guide. So for those who't know, 193 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:37.240 those are each individual episodes that take place, so they're basically saying all these 194 00:14:37.279 --> 00:14:43.000 things happened, yeah, but like we don't get to see them basically, 195 00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:46.600 yeah, which is like I I like that, Like if you're not going 196 00:14:46.679 --> 00:14:50.799 to have the stories like mentioning that the stories happened, like, I wouldn't 197 00:14:50.840 --> 00:14:54.360 mind if we had like a that's a short conversation on top of Appa where 198 00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:58.200 the you know, Soka says something about like, oh, well that was 199 00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:05.000 crazy that happened, hmm in the village or whatever. Yeah, they're basically 200 00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:09.960 easter eggs for fans of the animated show. But it's a nice way to 201 00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:15.879 layer in more of the journey, right that we are missing it just to 202 00:15:15.919 --> 00:15:20.240 me, it feels like it still feels missing, you know, It's like 203 00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:22.120 they're basically telling us it's part of the story, but in terms of the 204 00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:28.600 journey, it makes the journey feel a lot shorter to me. Yeah, 205 00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:33.840 and I do think that the the collection of stories that they put all into 206 00:15:35.559 --> 00:15:39.960 Omashu for me, fit better than the stories they tried to push together here. 207 00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:48.120 Yeah. The official Netflix live action series Drinking Game, by the way, 208 00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:54.440 is every time you recognize another animated episode you you know, you take 209 00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:56.279 a I don't know, a swig of water or whatever, because this should 210 00:15:56.279 --> 00:16:00.360 be book on the water. But like it, Like I guess every episode 211 00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:04.279 for me is like, okay, let's count how many episodes are in this 212 00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:08.320 episode. Normally I will never recommend this, but if you need, like 213 00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:12.840 it is a book of water, so like light beer counts. Sure. 214 00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:17.919 I will say one thing that at one point that I kept wanting to bring 215 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:19.559 up in our first two episodes, and it should never quite fit. That's 216 00:16:19.559 --> 00:16:22.120 fine because it's a small thing. But now I feel like it's really effective. 217 00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:26.240 It is really good to comment on because I think they've done a good 218 00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:32.879 thing with this. Every time I watch the bending, I thought fire bending. 219 00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:37.759 They're throwing fire. It is burning people. This is badass earth bending, 220 00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:40.559 Like they're throwing rocks, they're pulling up walls. I would say that, 221 00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:42.159 I said it really loud, some reason. They're throwing rocks, They're 222 00:16:42.159 --> 00:16:48.000 putting up walls like rock shards, Like this is deadly and awesome air bending 223 00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:52.759 even like we're pushing people back dozens of feet. We're really kind of socking 224 00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:56.480 it to them. And guitar God bless her. It felt like she just 225 00:16:56.519 --> 00:17:00.879 kept throwing buckets of water on people. Like the way animated, it looked 226 00:17:00.919 --> 00:17:03.120 very much like water, but it just kind of looked like they were getting 227 00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:07.240 hit by a splash. And I love that now and also as a way 228 00:17:07.240 --> 00:17:10.519 of showing how she is progressing in her abilities. Now she can freeze the 229 00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:14.640 water, and she could do that kind of with jet into to incapacitate him 230 00:17:14.759 --> 00:17:18.400 last episodes, but here that she's actually able to freeze the water and then 231 00:17:18.440 --> 00:17:22.599 throw it as little ice shards as knives. I really like that because I 232 00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:26.839 could see that people were reacting as though they got hit hit kind of hard 233 00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:29.920 by something, but it always just looked a little off to me that it 234 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:33.400 was just it didn't look like they're just gonna splashed with water. I never 235 00:17:33.400 --> 00:17:38.880 felt that way. I could see that. I like that they're describing how 236 00:17:38.920 --> 00:17:45.119 her skills are advancing. I do feel one of the things with the pacing 237 00:17:45.160 --> 00:17:51.079 here is I don't feel that kind of like through line of training and constantly 238 00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:56.039 like I feel like it's referenced more than shown, you know. And maybe 239 00:17:56.039 --> 00:18:00.279 maybe that's just the demands of a you know, eight episode live action here, 240 00:18:00.599 --> 00:18:03.079 you know, but I would like to see more of that and more 241 00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:07.559 of more of the training, you know. I mean we did get from 242 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:12.240 Azula training, but and by this point Aang should be water bending, right 243 00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:17.960 right, I mean in the animated serious he is, yeah, trying to 244 00:18:18.039 --> 00:18:19.640 learn. He's trying to get Katar to teach him, and then they're going 245 00:18:19.680 --> 00:18:23.440 to the Northern Water tribe for him to learn here have they have they mentioned 246 00:18:23.480 --> 00:18:27.200 that that, like he's going there to learn or is it just they're trying 247 00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:32.279 to prevent some They're going to help those people, right, I have the 248 00:18:32.359 --> 00:18:37.000 vision or whatever? Yeah, yeah, which to me feels right Kyoshi told 249 00:18:37.079 --> 00:18:41.440 him. I think, yeah, right, And I feel like that I 250 00:18:41.960 --> 00:18:47.000 want that to be. To me, that is central to the story is 251 00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:52.839 the idea of training, is the idea of having a skill or a skill 252 00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:57.160 set that you're trying to acquire, and that that's like the big journey really 253 00:18:57.440 --> 00:19:02.599 in the story to me, both for Aang and for Katara, and I 254 00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:06.200 love how and the animated series really get to see both of their journeys and 255 00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:11.119 then later some other characters as well, right, And I feel like we're 256 00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:15.480 getting a little bit of that, but less than i'd like, you know, 257 00:19:15.559 --> 00:19:18.559 yeah, and it's not it doesn't feel central in the way it does 258 00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:23.599 to me and the Yeah, and in general, like and stories like this, 259 00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:30.559 I dislike when people are led to their next destination by like mystical visions. 260 00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:36.720 You know. So yes, I agree that the purpose of going to 261 00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:42.559 the Northern Water Tribe two for Aang to train as the avatar in Water Bending, 262 00:19:42.680 --> 00:19:48.160 like it seems to be like a missing element here elements. I think 263 00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:52.240 it's fair. I think it's fair. What do we all think of Zuko 264 00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:56.799 in this because he obviously had some big plot development A plus give me all 265 00:19:56.799 --> 00:20:04.400 the Zuko. Yeah, I feel like I think the acting has been amazing. 266 00:20:04.480 --> 00:20:07.359 I think he's had some of the better writing in the series, like 267 00:20:07.400 --> 00:20:12.839 some of the better lines to deliver. I think it's interesting how they really 268 00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:21.000 are making him the driving force of kind of a lot of what's going, 269 00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:26.880 like of his own. It's not really a transformation, Like I don't see 270 00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:30.200 him having a redemption arc here. And I have a whole spiel that I 271 00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:33.720 won't go into about how I don't really believe in the idea of redemption and 272 00:20:33.720 --> 00:20:37.000 blah blah blah blah. But like, like I went for a walk and 273 00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:40.319 I like was talking it in my head and I'm like, you know what, 274 00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:42.480 I'm not, I'll spare you that, but like they I mean, 275 00:20:42.519 --> 00:20:47.720 because I use the word redemption arc in the lead up thing, right, 276 00:20:47.799 --> 00:20:53.559 but I feel like they're setting him up as such a sympathetic character already that 277 00:20:56.079 --> 00:20:59.839 I do kind of wonder like what the payoff is going to feel like, 278 00:21:00.759 --> 00:21:03.880 because I feel like he doesn't have that far to go, Like he did 279 00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:07.160 have that explosive moment with Aang where he's like, you know, my father's 280 00:21:07.200 --> 00:21:11.960 a great man, and then he literally quoted him, and they you know, 281 00:21:11.119 --> 00:21:15.079 cut to the backstory where he basically gets that line out of his dad's 282 00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:22.000 mouth, and this is this is something that I feel like, I feel 283 00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:26.079 a sense of loss that it's not the same as the animated series, but 284 00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:29.160 like we still have that. I feel like here they are trying to do 285 00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:33.759 something interesting and different with the character and with the character of Ozi, because 286 00:21:33.799 --> 00:21:37.640 there's something in that agne Kai that I felt like I picked up on that 287 00:21:37.799 --> 00:21:41.680 was either there or it wasn't there. Either I imagined it or it was 288 00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:47.240 deliberately you know, evoked by Daniel day Kim. But like I felt like 289 00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:55.079 when Ozi was punishing Zuko and like branding him. I felt like he didn't 290 00:21:55.119 --> 00:21:59.720 want to. I didn't feel like that was an act of malice. I 291 00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:03.400 felt like it was a misguided act of thinking he was doing what he needed 292 00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:08.799 to do as a father to toughen up his son because his father had presumably 293 00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:12.680 treated him that way, and his father's father has had treated his father. 294 00:22:12.759 --> 00:22:18.000 And it's to me that actually really underscores in a beautiful way, the you 295 00:22:18.039 --> 00:22:22.039 know, the way somebody has to break the cycle of violence, somebody has 296 00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:26.960 to break the cycle of abuse. Right, Yes, and Zuko is so 297 00:22:26.079 --> 00:22:30.480 abused by his father, but it feels like his father was clearly abused by 298 00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:36.519 his father, and that it went down like this, I agree, And 299 00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:40.559 I felt one of the reasons I loved this episode so much these episodes is 300 00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:44.400 I felt like this is when I finally got what they're doing with Zuko and 301 00:22:44.440 --> 00:22:48.880 with Azula and with Ozia, Because first of all, we talked about that 302 00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:52.599 maybe they were rushing Zuko's story a little bit much, and here I felt 303 00:22:52.599 --> 00:22:56.640 like it actually really makes sense that in that moment, yes, he went 304 00:22:56.720 --> 00:23:00.079 for Iro instead of the Avatar, but it's not because he has realized, 305 00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:03.359 like the Avatar quest is hopeless or anything like that, he's still just as 306 00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:07.000 much on it. And to me, that really gets to how conflicted this 307 00:23:07.079 --> 00:23:12.000 guy is, and that to some extent it's that how important his uncle is 308 00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:17.039 to him, but also that maybe he thinks he can't get the Avatar without 309 00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:18.880 his uncle, you know, And so it's still this kind of makes place, 310 00:23:21.279 --> 00:23:26.599 And I think there's something to be said for when the first time you 311 00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:29.799 hear a story, a big part of the power of it is that you 312 00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:33.440 go on a journey with a character and then there's big reveals towards the end. 313 00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:38.559 When you retell that story, you have to decide are you telling it 314 00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:41.799 for an entirely new audience are you telling it for the audience who's already seen 315 00:23:41.799 --> 00:23:47.400 that version of the story. And it feels like here they've made a conscious 316 00:23:47.480 --> 00:23:52.400 choice of instead of saying we're gonna make you feel negative towards Zuko because he's 317 00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:56.559 the antagonist, and then slowly let you have sympathy for him, that here 318 00:23:56.599 --> 00:24:00.599 we're really gonna make you have sympathy right out of the gate for Zuko and 319 00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:04.640 now for Azula. Because by the end of this episode, I also felt 320 00:24:04.720 --> 00:24:07.400 kind of sympathy for Azula, because what it really feels to me like is, 321 00:24:08.319 --> 00:24:12.799 yes that Ozi did not in the animated version. It feels like Ozi 322 00:24:12.880 --> 00:24:18.119 gives up on Zuko entirely wants him to go away forever, and now Azula 323 00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:22.759 is the air this. It feels like he is very intentionally play I mean 324 00:24:23.000 --> 00:24:27.200 it's very sith in a way. He wants to toughen up both Zuko and 325 00:24:27.240 --> 00:24:33.519 Azula and play them off against each other so that they will both be as 326 00:24:33.880 --> 00:24:37.799 callous and hard and you know, unmerciful, so that one of them will 327 00:24:37.839 --> 00:24:45.359 emerge victorious and be the rightful heir to him and in that if that's where 328 00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:48.160 they're going, I think now it makes sense to me why they're bringing in 329 00:24:48.200 --> 00:24:51.519 Azula so quick, why they're doing some of the other stuff. It's not 330 00:24:51.599 --> 00:24:53.359 the story I love, but maybe because we got that story, this is 331 00:24:53.559 --> 00:24:57.200 a new way to do it. Yeah, I can see all that, 332 00:24:57.319 --> 00:25:03.039 except for like sympathy for a Zula, Like I feel like she's malicious, 333 00:25:03.079 --> 00:25:10.400 like she is like evil and that she it doesn't feel to me like this 334 00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:19.160 she's been abused and she's like I feel like there was this like like like 335 00:25:19.240 --> 00:25:26.440 she was enjoying watching Zuko suffer, you know, and also like when you 336 00:25:26.480 --> 00:25:33.480 know, when she brought those like rebels in to get you know, immolated, 337 00:25:33.759 --> 00:25:40.359 like that there's this pleasure, this this malice, this sadism that I 338 00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:45.319 mean, yeah, obviously she also had a father who's you know, a 339 00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:48.400 horrible person at least in terms of what his acts are, right right, 340 00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:55.000 But like I feel like where she is now, I feel like she has 341 00:25:55.480 --> 00:26:00.319 farther to go. I understand the kind of like maybe maybe i'd say, 342 00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:03.240 I would I could co sign the word empathy, and I'm not saying you 343 00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:11.240 shouldn't feel sympathy, but like I would say maybe some like I feel where 344 00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:17.920 she's coming from. But like I definitely feel like some very very negative like 345 00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:22.440 maybe more than OZI, like whatever OZI thinks he's supposed to be, Like 346 00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:30.119 Azula is that, you know, which maybe a Zulan was. And so 347 00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:33.279 to me, it's sort of like if you look at a child soldier who 348 00:26:33.319 --> 00:26:36.920 is just vicious and brutal, do you focus on the evil, Like are 349 00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:38.039 you like, oh, this child soldier is evil, or are you like, 350 00:26:38.519 --> 00:26:41.680 this is a child who was raised in an incredibly evil situation, Like 351 00:26:42.119 --> 00:26:49.079 do I want Azula to own free hell no, right, but I like, 352 00:26:49.160 --> 00:26:53.039 I think all of that is true. But I think she and Zuko 353 00:26:53.119 --> 00:27:00.200 are very much both products of their father's raising, and I have more I 354 00:27:00.200 --> 00:27:03.599 want him to win the fight of them, but I also have some sympathy 355 00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:08.200 towards her in terms of like you have also you have been taught that being 356 00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:12.960 this horrible person is what is the right thing to do, and you probably 357 00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:17.839 feel like you're winning because you're getting your father's love. But then like the 358 00:27:17.880 --> 00:27:22.240 way that her father turns on her very quickly and is like, don't think 359 00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:26.119 Zuko's out of the running, like and you know, yeah, you being 360 00:27:26.119 --> 00:27:27.880 a candy at like you know, kiss ass, Like that's just as bad. 361 00:27:29.400 --> 00:27:36.160 And I just feel like the malice is like something almost like innate, 362 00:27:36.559 --> 00:27:40.599 Like is how it feels to me, you know, like it it feels 363 00:27:40.759 --> 00:27:48.680 different, I guess, but I don't know. We'll see animated Azula. 364 00:27:48.279 --> 00:27:55.119 The first word that comes to my mind is psychopath, right, yeah, 365 00:27:55.160 --> 00:28:00.759 And in this one so far, like a injured singer earlier and like showing 366 00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:06.079 more of what's been going on in the Fire Nation, she seems more cunning 367 00:28:06.200 --> 00:28:11.480 and manipulative than I recall as Zula being mm hm, I feel like she 368 00:28:11.720 --> 00:28:18.000 was cunning and manipulative and the like more in the like overtly threatening kind of 369 00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:19.960 way. Yeah. Well, to me, like the way the way she 370 00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:22.839 I don't want to spoil too much, but the way she takes the way 371 00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:27.359 she takes over a certain group in the end of season two, yeah exactly. 372 00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:33.839 Yeah, but but here it is she's like playing politics with the in 373 00:28:33.880 --> 00:28:40.440 a way that like her being involved in the promotion of Jao right exactly. 374 00:28:40.519 --> 00:28:44.000 But I'd say, at least does her being in it so early now make 375 00:28:44.039 --> 00:28:48.039 more sense to you guys, because to me, I now feel like if 376 00:28:48.039 --> 00:28:51.599 they were going to tell the exact story they told originally, there's no reason 377 00:28:51.680 --> 00:28:53.839 her to be on screen. But I feel like I now understand the story 378 00:28:53.880 --> 00:28:59.160 they're wanting to tell with her instead. I feel like, if you want 379 00:28:59.200 --> 00:29:06.279 to tell as much of the Iro and Zuko backstory, like what happens before 380 00:29:06.400 --> 00:29:11.160 the present day events, essentially before the main story, then it makes sense 381 00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:15.319 to have more Ozi and more Azula. I think that makes sense for context. 382 00:29:15.880 --> 00:29:19.400 I so it. To me, it does feel like it goes along 383 00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:26.039 with the choice of telling a different Iro and Zuko story, So I feel 384 00:29:26.039 --> 00:29:30.119 like that all fits together. Yes, yeah, well, and then at 385 00:29:30.119 --> 00:29:36.680 some level it's very good. Go ahead, Well my answer is no or 386 00:29:37.079 --> 00:29:41.640 not enough, Like, if they're gonna give us this much, I think 387 00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:47.039 they should give us more and be drawing like more of a narrative through line 388 00:29:47.119 --> 00:29:56.160 between what Iro is telling Zuko and then showing what Ozi is doing with Azula, 389 00:29:56.200 --> 00:30:00.880 right, because like Zuko has an image of his father and the Fire 390 00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:03.599 Nation and like I just want to get back or store my honor, et 391 00:30:03.680 --> 00:30:07.559 cetera. And Ira keeps telling him like no, like you're wrong, like 392 00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:11.279 it's it's not that great back there, and we're getting a little little of 393 00:30:11.319 --> 00:30:15.960 it. But I think maybe if they showed us more, even even more 394 00:30:17.319 --> 00:30:23.000 of it, Yeah, perhaps it does seem ironic to me that in a 395 00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:27.160 way, I feel like this version of Ozi cares I think you were kind 396 00:30:27.160 --> 00:30:30.119 of saying this earlier, cares more about his son than he does in the 397 00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:34.279 animation, because to me, an animation, yeah, yeah, he's written 398 00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:38.039 off his but yeah, yeah, he's written off his son entirely. It's 399 00:30:38.039 --> 00:30:41.240 like, no, you challenged me, once you're done, whereas here it's 400 00:30:41.319 --> 00:30:45.079 much more like I want you to learn this lesson because I do want you 401 00:30:45.160 --> 00:30:49.400 to be strong enough to right, Like he wants Zuko to be his heir, 402 00:30:51.160 --> 00:30:55.279 right, Whereas in the original series it's like he's accepted that as Zula 403 00:30:55.440 --> 00:31:02.119 is his era and Zuko is like screw up son like his brother in right, 404 00:31:02.200 --> 00:31:04.319 that the two of them are the disgraced kind of you know, yeah, 405 00:31:04.359 --> 00:31:11.799 they can go off and scour the earth on some hopeless quests. Yeah, 406 00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:17.160 and he genuine yeah, he genuinely seems to respect how Zuko found the 407 00:31:17.160 --> 00:31:22.799 avatar, the fact that he corrects Azula when she says Commander Jao found the 408 00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:26.720 avatar. He makes a point of saying, no, it was Zuko. 409 00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:30.759 Yeah, And I do think that there's some kind of pitting the two of 410 00:31:30.759 --> 00:31:33.160 them against each other there, but there's also just a genuine like, no, 411 00:31:33.480 --> 00:31:37.319 I gave Zuko an impossible task and he succeeded. Ye. And then 412 00:31:37.720 --> 00:31:44.200 in the next episode we see Aang talking to Zuko about basically like, hey, 413 00:31:44.319 --> 00:31:48.599 you like did all this research on avatars, like you collected all this 414 00:31:48.680 --> 00:31:52.599 information, and so it's clear that like Zuko took the challenge, like really 415 00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:57.440 seriously, he wasn't just like you know, just running his boat around hoping 416 00:31:57.480 --> 00:32:00.799 that he'd find a skybean someone. Yeah, you know, it's like one 417 00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:04.559 thing I was thinking about that. I don't think it has been said ever 418 00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:08.480 in either the animated or the live action, but at least fits in my 419 00:32:08.599 --> 00:32:16.279 mind. I think that the fire always like a huge coincidence that Zuko just 420 00:32:16.400 --> 00:32:22.240 happened to be in the area of the entire world where and gets defrosted. 421 00:32:23.119 --> 00:32:27.720 But the more I thought about it, the where I realized they may well 422 00:32:27.799 --> 00:32:31.640 think that the avatar died as part of the attack on the Air Air Air 423 00:32:31.720 --> 00:32:37.119 Nomad Temple, which means the next Avatar should be in the Water Tribe and 424 00:32:37.160 --> 00:32:40.480 so like him being specifically at the war in the Water Tribe area makes a 425 00:32:40.519 --> 00:32:45.200 lot more sense. Then yeah, yeah, I mean, or or he 426 00:32:45.319 --> 00:32:50.119 thought that he was somehow found out that he's probably of the Southern Air Temple, 427 00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:57.119 and then yeah, but that would also explain why they were looking for 428 00:32:57.240 --> 00:33:00.000 all the water benders. Oh yeah, yeah, that's true too, you 429 00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:05.640 know. And in this one, I guess like Katara got her mom killed, 430 00:33:05.799 --> 00:33:12.759 like what, Okay, So yeah, let's talk about the parentage of 431 00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:16.720 Socca and Katara, because and here I wonder if again I'm going to be 432 00:33:16.759 --> 00:33:20.359 often on my own or if this is Paul the kind of thing you were 433 00:33:20.359 --> 00:33:28.160 talking about about, show not tell. In the show, we know and 434 00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:34.960 we feel the incredible pain that Katara went through because of the death of her 435 00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:39.359 mother. We never actually see that happen on screen, and we certainly don't 436 00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:43.720 see that Katara is in any way responsible or like that there was the one 437 00:33:43.759 --> 00:33:51.599 being protected. Specifically, Similarly, we know that Sokka feels this incredible pressure 438 00:33:51.680 --> 00:33:58.200 to live up to the example that his dad's dad set and in the original, 439 00:33:58.519 --> 00:34:00.319 as we commented on it in our you know, look back at the 440 00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:05.599 animated one of the nice things is that they never actually make you know, 441 00:34:06.079 --> 00:34:10.880 Hokkida, Hokkada, so Hakota thank you that they never make Haokota like, 442 00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:15.239 actually this like bad guy who like ran out on his family or who like 443 00:34:15.559 --> 00:34:19.960 made Sokka feel terrible. It's just that the situation made Sokka feel terrible, 444 00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:23.480 right, and so having this having each of them have these horrible memories, 445 00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:28.599 one that's some events we knew about but just made so much worse and shown 446 00:34:28.639 --> 00:34:32.599 on screen, and the other being of like actually no Socca has a really 447 00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:38.000 even more of a reason to feel bad it, Just like the animated was 448 00:34:38.079 --> 00:34:42.000 much more subtle and trusted its audience a lot more, and this was much 449 00:34:42.039 --> 00:34:45.760 more like, no, we have to make it like the exact thing that 450 00:34:45.239 --> 00:34:51.079 you know would fit this bill. I felt hit over the head with it. 451 00:34:51.519 --> 00:34:53.679 Yeah, sure, I will say that. I'll give them an out, 452 00:34:54.119 --> 00:34:58.440 which they may or may not maintain as the series goes on. But 453 00:34:59.360 --> 00:35:01.880 those were things that were showed to them by you know, the spirit. 454 00:35:04.760 --> 00:35:08.800 Do we know that that's exactly how things happened? That's what I was thinking. 455 00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:14.480 Yeah, kind of like a reverse black mercy, right, Yeah, 456 00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:19.679 of like showing you like what you want most, like showing you your deepest 457 00:35:19.760 --> 00:35:23.480 fear. And yeah, like that those events may have happened, but not 458 00:35:23.639 --> 00:35:29.639 played out in exactly that way. And this is an exaggeration. I was 459 00:35:29.679 --> 00:35:34.199 hoping that. But at some point the spirit says to uh, aang, 460 00:35:34.639 --> 00:35:37.719 they're they're trapped in their darkest memories, which to me meant it was that 461 00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:43.920 is it is specifically their memory, not like their own like fear interpretation that 462 00:35:43.960 --> 00:35:46.639 like makes their memories twenty percent worse or whatever. Yeah, I mean again, 463 00:35:47.199 --> 00:35:51.920 I think that leaves open the potential for an unreliable narrator. Basically where 464 00:35:52.039 --> 00:35:55.000 yeah, the spirit is telling that to aang do I mean, do we 465 00:35:55.079 --> 00:36:00.280 know this spirit's honest? Like, I think you're probably correct, or I 466 00:36:00.280 --> 00:36:06.159 think the interpretation that you're giving, I think is probably what the writers had 467 00:36:06.199 --> 00:36:09.880 intended. I think that's the most likely thing. I do think right now, 468 00:36:10.280 --> 00:36:15.199 as of what's been on screen, it is open to interpretation. Like 469 00:36:15.239 --> 00:36:20.039 I said, it's possible that future events will close the room for that interpretation 470 00:36:20.239 --> 00:36:25.199 by adding, you know, by their being more explicit like reinforcement of what 471 00:36:25.320 --> 00:36:31.239 happened, you know, and and assuming that it is actually exactly what happened 472 00:36:31.239 --> 00:36:36.719 as we saw on screen. I don't like it that much, you know, 473 00:36:37.280 --> 00:36:42.119 I wouldn't say I hate it, but like it it feels yeah. 474 00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:47.559 Yeah, it's a weird interpretation of the show not tell, right, Yeah, 475 00:36:47.880 --> 00:36:53.800 which is it's not a truism in storytelling. And I think the problem 476 00:36:54.039 --> 00:37:01.199 is that when you say show not tell, it doesn't necessarily mean you have 477 00:37:01.320 --> 00:37:06.599 to show a full flashback scene. It just means, like, don't have 478 00:37:06.679 --> 00:37:10.119 the character say I'm really sad because my mom died, yes, killed by 479 00:37:10.119 --> 00:37:15.719 fire vendors? Right, like you want to show the emotion through a scene 480 00:37:15.800 --> 00:37:20.880 in the current story. Yeah, And I think there's just a constant kind 481 00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:25.239 of stating of one's emotions or telling someone else about their emotions and how they 482 00:37:25.239 --> 00:37:30.960 should deal with them. That just is it. I feel like it doesn't 483 00:37:30.039 --> 00:37:39.280 leave enough room for the actors to kind of give give nuance. And I 484 00:37:39.320 --> 00:37:44.400 think Zuko's one of the characters where they've succeeded the most with that because he 485 00:37:44.440 --> 00:37:46.280 doesn't always say a lot, you know. I I think a lot of 486 00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:51.000 the times, the less dialogue there is, and especially when you have live 487 00:37:51.039 --> 00:37:57.119 action people who portraying the roles, that's one of the big advantages over animation 488 00:37:57.239 --> 00:38:04.000 really is that animated face can be expressive, but it is very very difficult 489 00:38:04.039 --> 00:38:07.360 for them to be as expressive and as nuanced in that expression as a human 490 00:38:07.400 --> 00:38:15.920 face of like a skilled actor, right, especially in combination with the dialogue. 491 00:38:15.159 --> 00:38:20.000 Yes, and I would say, like we forget this show is what 492 00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:24.000 fifteen years old, twenty years old and animation? Yeah, animation, Like 493 00:38:24.039 --> 00:38:29.519 I would say that, like what you just said, I think isn't necessarily 494 00:38:29.559 --> 00:38:35.119 true about the facial expressions in Spider Man across the Spider Verse, but that's 495 00:38:35.159 --> 00:38:38.679 also because that has much more advanced technology and a budget that's probably one hundred 496 00:38:38.679 --> 00:38:45.320 times bigger to use that technology. I still think your general point of a 497 00:38:45.440 --> 00:38:49.360 human face can convey emotion better than a drawing a human face is absolutely true. 498 00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:52.000 I'm just saying that. I think that like with this show, not 499 00:38:52.039 --> 00:38:55.519 only is that true, but also this is without the budget and without the 500 00:38:55.559 --> 00:39:00.920 technology that we're getting used to and in shows today. Yeah, I think 501 00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:05.519 it's I think more than like budget or technology, it's about stylistic choice, 502 00:39:05.559 --> 00:39:10.920 like it is animation of like it's cartoon drawing right in a certain way. 503 00:39:10.960 --> 00:39:17.400 It's it's the faces. The drawings are representations of what they are as opposed 504 00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:24.199 to I mean, the Spider Verse movies have very different styles of animation within 505 00:39:24.239 --> 00:39:28.760 them, and some of them are the kind of more hyperrealism, and some 506 00:39:28.840 --> 00:39:35.760 of them are very like more Yeah, Spider Noir is not giving them right 507 00:39:35.840 --> 00:39:40.280 exactly, and yeah, and so it is certainly possible. Personally, I 508 00:39:40.320 --> 00:39:47.559 still feel like most kind of more photo real kind of animation still feels a 509 00:39:47.559 --> 00:39:51.199 little bit of that kind of Uncanny Valley to me a lot of the time. 510 00:39:51.440 --> 00:39:55.639 But yeah, but certainly you're right that there there are ways of animating 511 00:39:55.880 --> 00:40:00.320 that you can give a little bit more, but still, well, I 512 00:40:00.559 --> 00:40:04.159 just feel like it's almost never going to be as much as like, not 513 00:40:04.199 --> 00:40:07.639 even just in terms of whether you can visually represent it, but like the 514 00:40:07.719 --> 00:40:10.239 feeling that a person has. I think the reason a lot of people prefer 515 00:40:10.360 --> 00:40:15.400 live action is the feeling they get of looking at real people, you know, 516 00:40:15.480 --> 00:40:19.000 the faces of real people specifically. And I think that gets to the 517 00:40:19.039 --> 00:40:22.199 point of this, why this It was so specific that we felt this way. 518 00:40:22.239 --> 00:40:27.039 And here's kind of my own spin on show Don't Tell. I think 519 00:40:27.039 --> 00:40:30.719 that the problem here is that what we should were in the end, what 520 00:40:30.760 --> 00:40:37.119 we're supposed to see is not the exact way that their mother died. It's 521 00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:43.079 Katara's reaction to it and her feelings about it. And so for us to 522 00:40:43.159 --> 00:40:46.920 see we can either speak we can either see how she's feeling about it, 523 00:40:47.639 --> 00:40:52.039 or we can be told exactly what happened, right, so that now we 524 00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:53.719 can think, oh, well, of course, so Katara must feel this 525 00:40:54.199 --> 00:40:57.559 right And they say the same way, and I do agree with you, 526 00:40:57.639 --> 00:41:00.039 that's an out. Like I think, if you give me two minutes of 527 00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:06.280 Katara and Socca talking about the things they were most afraid of. And you 528 00:41:06.280 --> 00:41:07.559 know, Katar, like, there are things. There are times where I've 529 00:41:07.559 --> 00:41:12.599 had fights with people where in my head, I know I got too angry, 530 00:41:13.000 --> 00:41:15.639 and in my head I'm thinking about all the like the worst thoughts I 531 00:41:15.719 --> 00:41:19.320 say when I'm angry, and I'll go to the person later and be like, 532 00:41:19.360 --> 00:41:21.840 I'm so sorry, and like when I said this specific thing and they're 533 00:41:21.880 --> 00:41:24.480 like, no, you never said that, And so I can imagine, 534 00:41:24.519 --> 00:41:29.760 like, yeah, it's entirely possible that Socca never actually heard what his father 535 00:41:29.920 --> 00:41:31.599 was saying, but he thought he didn't do well enough. Maybe some of 536 00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:35.760 the other kids teased him, and yeah, so maybe in his head he 537 00:41:35.840 --> 00:41:38.760 remembers that his father said that, and of him and Katara have that conversation 538 00:41:38.880 --> 00:41:43.599 and he's like, no, Katara, mom died, you know, doing 539 00:41:43.599 --> 00:41:46.000 this other thing or and he and she's like no, Soka, you know 540 00:41:46.199 --> 00:41:50.800 dad never said that. Like that that would that would be all I need 541 00:41:50.960 --> 00:41:53.280 because then I think it's much more what you're talking about. But we'll see, 542 00:41:53.760 --> 00:41:57.960 say I feel like I don't want that either, but if it means 543 00:41:58.079 --> 00:42:00.280 yeah, I'd be like, Okay, I'm glad. Matthew Saffy, I'm 544 00:42:00.280 --> 00:42:04.000 saying, it's a way to confirm the out that you're giving it. Sure, 545 00:42:04.039 --> 00:42:07.440 Sure, I still wish they just hadn't done it, Like yeah, 546 00:42:07.519 --> 00:42:10.159 yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, yeah, the whole co the 547 00:42:10.239 --> 00:42:15.239 face stealer in the original story that comes a little later, and it's only 548 00:42:15.320 --> 00:42:19.760 Ang who goes into the spirit world and meets Co. Right, And in 549 00:42:19.800 --> 00:42:25.519 fact, like this episode, the panda, badger, skunk spirit whatever it 550 00:42:25.559 --> 00:42:30.840 is, like that was completely different. Yeah, right, because by the 551 00:42:30.960 --> 00:42:36.559 end of this episode, Ang is supposed to have sued soothed that spirit and 552 00:42:36.599 --> 00:42:40.079 it returns to its kind of more natural, less angry form, and that 553 00:42:40.199 --> 00:42:45.480 just didn't happen here. He gave him like an acorn though. Yeah. 554 00:42:45.519 --> 00:42:49.320 But yeah, I feel like that playoff wasn't there, right, That was 555 00:42:49.400 --> 00:42:52.519 like I thought that was like the main point of like these two episodes, 556 00:42:52.719 --> 00:42:55.960 right, and then and then we kind of serve swerved into co Yeah yeah, 557 00:42:57.400 --> 00:43:00.119 yeah, And it was just it felt like to me about twice as 558 00:43:00.159 --> 00:43:07.440 many stories as needed to be in one episode, or two episodes for that 559 00:43:07.480 --> 00:43:10.719 matter. But I always liked more payoff on the forest as well. In 560 00:43:10.760 --> 00:43:15.159 the Spirit of the Forest, Yeah, I felt weird because the one hand, 561 00:43:15.199 --> 00:43:17.920 I wanted fewer stories. But I'm wondering if either of you felt this 562 00:43:17.960 --> 00:43:21.639 way. I thought at first that we were going to get the Painted Lady 563 00:43:22.239 --> 00:43:24.360 when we got to this town. That was like having all these spirit prom 564 00:43:24.559 --> 00:43:29.239 you know, problems and other problems. I thought, maybe we're gonna get 565 00:43:29.239 --> 00:43:34.400 to have that part of Katata's journey, which as much later, but you 566 00:43:34.440 --> 00:43:37.679 thought they were going to put it in earlier. Basically was that season two? 567 00:43:37.719 --> 00:43:40.199 I thought that was season one? I think season three? Yeah, 568 00:43:40.280 --> 00:43:47.840 okay, never mind, that's fine. So the addition that I really liked 569 00:43:49.800 --> 00:43:54.559 was the forty first Division. Oh yeah, addition right, because that the 570 00:43:55.159 --> 00:44:00.840 war council scene agne Kai like that all exists, but the fact that the 571 00:44:00.840 --> 00:44:09.159 forty first Division was assigned to Zuko's mission and the like the way that it's 572 00:44:09.199 --> 00:44:14.199 revealed to them, and the respect that they show, like that played out 573 00:44:14.320 --> 00:44:16.760 much better. And the animated show, I think, like Iro just tells 574 00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:22.360 the story and it it could be implied, or it could have been planned 575 00:44:22.400 --> 00:44:24.840 and just cut out, but they they never say that they're the forty first 576 00:44:24.840 --> 00:44:35.199 Division. So the revelation of that was more powerful here or or was powerful. 577 00:44:35.639 --> 00:44:38.280 And the respect that they showed to Zuko makes much more sense. And 578 00:44:38.320 --> 00:44:42.480 they're like the show to Hotel, right, Like none of them say anything 579 00:44:42.559 --> 00:44:45.960 like thank you for saving our lives, Prince Zuko. I guess they do 580 00:44:45.039 --> 00:44:52.239 call him so yeah like that and just like the bows the respectful vows as 581 00:44:52.280 --> 00:44:57.079 he walks past them, like that was that was great? That was perfect. 582 00:44:57.159 --> 00:45:00.679 I love it, especially because I don't know if this was intentional or 583 00:45:00.679 --> 00:45:06.000 if I'm just misreading it or something when we make it that specific. Part 584 00:45:06.039 --> 00:45:09.360 of what that also means is that the argument that Zuko was making in that 585 00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:15.519 war Council wound up like being what they did. They didn't attack with the 586 00:45:15.519 --> 00:45:17.800 forty first, and I don't know if that means that the same attack happened 587 00:45:17.800 --> 00:45:22.239 with a different group or if on some level it's also that the father like 588 00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:24.599 is actually like, no, you made a good point, but you did 589 00:45:24.599 --> 00:45:27.920 it in the wrong way, and so I'm punishing you, but I'm actually 590 00:45:27.920 --> 00:45:30.559 doing what right right, Like they didn't actually follow through with the plan, 591 00:45:31.360 --> 00:45:34.760 right, that's a really good point. I didn't even think about that. 592 00:45:35.079 --> 00:45:37.440 It's like, yeah, I mean maybe he was just like, ah, 593 00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:40.960 we won't even attack. I got to punish my son. Yeah, well, 594 00:45:42.159 --> 00:45:45.840 get back to our military conquest later. The only thing I didn't like 595 00:45:45.880 --> 00:45:52.480 about that was the way it was framed was, you know, Zuko treats 596 00:45:52.559 --> 00:46:00.119 us really badly as our commanding officer, and zap Zau doesn't. And and 597 00:46:00.159 --> 00:46:02.400 it was like Iro being like, well, yeah, but forget about how 598 00:46:02.400 --> 00:46:06.679 badly he treats you, because you know he did this really nice thing for 599 00:46:06.719 --> 00:46:10.480 you before, right, And if granted I'm a labor rights guy, like 600 00:46:10.679 --> 00:46:15.280 I'm all for the unionized workers, like it, it felt a little dismissive. 601 00:46:15.320 --> 00:46:17.920 I wish that they had that it had been framed more as we think 602 00:46:19.000 --> 00:46:22.599 Zuko is gonna get us all killed, Joao is the way we're actually going 603 00:46:22.679 --> 00:46:24.760 to get to go homes, Like there was much more about that rather than 604 00:46:24.800 --> 00:46:31.559 specifically about like Zuko treats us badly, because there's been nothing done to make 605 00:46:31.639 --> 00:46:37.679 Zuco treat them any better, right right, right, Zuko hasn't actually learned 606 00:46:37.079 --> 00:46:40.960 like to not be a tool, Like he's still a tool to them, 607 00:46:42.119 --> 00:46:45.119 right right. He saved their lives, and then maybe maybe there's some element 608 00:46:45.159 --> 00:46:51.280 of resentment, right, Like I got scarred and off on this ridiculous quest 609 00:46:51.639 --> 00:46:54.000 because I stood up for you guys and saved your lives, you know, 610 00:46:55.239 --> 00:47:00.519 right, So maybe that's like an element there, But yeah, I agree 611 00:47:00.519 --> 00:47:05.360 that, like he's still not a good commanding officer. Although they don't really 612 00:47:05.440 --> 00:47:08.960 know much about whether Jao is a good commuting commanding officer or not, you 613 00:47:09.000 --> 00:47:13.119 know, they just they it's like, oh, this is the new guy. 614 00:47:13.519 --> 00:47:15.920 He hasn't been a tool to me yet right now, like, and 615 00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:21.599 I don't know about you, Like yeah, And there's an extent to which 616 00:47:21.920 --> 00:47:25.079 like Zuko and Iro are asking them to risk all their lives again because they're 617 00:47:25.079 --> 00:47:30.039 directly they are now all in mutiny against the direct order from the fire Lord, 618 00:47:30.599 --> 00:47:36.480 and so they're sort of all putting themselves on right. Yeah. Yeah, 619 00:47:36.960 --> 00:47:40.800 I mean for me, this like Zuka the story you know, we're 620 00:47:40.800 --> 00:47:46.039 going to get to redemption in the future, but this, this story that's 621 00:47:46.079 --> 00:47:52.039 going on here in this episode is about him like growing, growing as a 622 00:47:52.159 --> 00:47:54.320 leader, I guess. And yeah, you can say, like, well 623 00:47:54.320 --> 00:48:00.679 he's just kind of been a dick to them, but I I think Paul 624 00:48:00.760 --> 00:48:06.400 you said something about like he resents them like right, yeah, like Ozi, 625 00:48:06.800 --> 00:48:10.039 the way Ozi presents this is like more of your punishment as more of 626 00:48:10.079 --> 00:48:15.239 your punishment, I'm going to saddle you with these new recruits whose lives you 627 00:48:15.719 --> 00:48:20.880 valued so much, and so yeah, like there there might be a bit 628 00:48:20.960 --> 00:48:24.679 of resentment from Zuko that like he's in this position because he valued their lives, 629 00:48:25.360 --> 00:48:30.360 right and he he doesn't because he's so young, like he doesn't see 630 00:48:30.440 --> 00:48:36.239 yet the value of that as a leader, especially a military leader, right 631 00:48:36.280 --> 00:48:44.599 like and so far like he has he has like every time I think Lieutenant 632 00:48:44.679 --> 00:48:47.199 g like says something like we found the avatar, like we have a rumor, 633 00:48:47.440 --> 00:48:52.400 like I'll sense a man. Zuko's like, no, I'm going with 634 00:48:52.559 --> 00:48:57.880 Iro, which is kind of his like lack of trust right right, And 635 00:48:57.920 --> 00:49:01.480 I think what has what has been broken through here in this episode is that 636 00:49:01.599 --> 00:49:07.400 now there is a respect and a trust between them and maybe maybe there's still 637 00:49:07.519 --> 00:49:09.519 enough time, like we'll get to see something come out of that, like 638 00:49:09.719 --> 00:49:15.039 a positive development out of that. So like I really like the way that 639 00:49:15.119 --> 00:49:20.280 this whole thing with the forty first and ge has played out. And then 640 00:49:20.320 --> 00:49:25.840 I wrote too like like I continue to praise the Iro performance, especially in 641 00:49:25.960 --> 00:49:30.880 the background, like Iro standing in the background, like I always pay attention 642 00:49:31.000 --> 00:49:37.039 to because he'll have like a nod or a facial expression or something like a 643 00:49:37.159 --> 00:49:43.079 look that passes between him and another character, and it's just great for sure. 644 00:49:43.159 --> 00:49:45.159 Yeah, Like seeing him at the Agney Kai was like was pain, 645 00:49:46.159 --> 00:49:52.199 you know, because he clearly thought it was horrible and abusive, but also 646 00:49:52.360 --> 00:49:57.559 felt like he didn't really have the stand like there was only so much he 647 00:49:57.559 --> 00:50:00.679 could do kind of you know, and I mean tried to step in, 648 00:50:00.800 --> 00:50:02.920 but it's like he can't. He can't tell his brother what to do because 649 00:50:02.920 --> 00:50:08.599 his brother's the fire lord now. And yeah, there's what did you think 650 00:50:08.639 --> 00:50:14.440 about the like the voiceover, like the monologue, the Iro monologue in episode 651 00:50:14.519 --> 00:50:20.960 six, and that's okay, Yeah, powerful have been on the nose. 652 00:50:21.360 --> 00:50:22.400 Yeah, yeah, that's kind of how I felt. I felt like, 653 00:50:22.800 --> 00:50:27.039 I don't feel like there was a better way of delivering these words, but 654 00:50:27.079 --> 00:50:30.239 I'm not totally sure why they're here. You know. It felt a little 655 00:50:30.239 --> 00:50:36.719 bit to me almost like the writers not trusting their episode like for the audience 656 00:50:36.840 --> 00:50:39.880 maybe, you know, Yeah, like it was an attempt to tie all 657 00:50:39.920 --> 00:50:45.960 of the stories together. Yeah, like if if there was some kind of 658 00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:49.679 like I don't know, like how I met your mother aspect to it where 659 00:50:49.719 --> 00:50:52.760 like he was talking to someone. It like, it just felt a little 660 00:50:52.760 --> 00:50:55.800 weird to me that talking to us. Yeah, sure, sure, I 661 00:50:55.920 --> 00:51:00.000 was just kind of like, why are we hearing Iro's voice and voiceover? 662 00:51:00.639 --> 00:51:07.159 Yeah? I guess telling g the story? Is that what that was? 663 00:51:08.000 --> 00:51:12.360 I don't think so. I feel like that would have made sense, That's 664 00:51:12.360 --> 00:51:15.199 how I would have spun it. Yeah, you know what I mean. 665 00:51:15.719 --> 00:51:20.480 But yeah, it did feel to me like this was it was kind of 666 00:51:20.480 --> 00:51:22.599 like they're trying to make Iro sort of the narrator of this whole thing. 667 00:51:23.280 --> 00:51:27.400 But that's weird because it made him even more of a subjective character than he 668 00:51:27.519 --> 00:51:30.800 is in the original, right, Yeah, yeah, sure they did it 669 00:51:30.880 --> 00:51:34.760 with Yatso as well, Like in a previous episode, I think there was 670 00:51:34.760 --> 00:51:40.119 like Yatso voiceover, yeah, narration, Yeah, and there's I guess there 671 00:51:40.199 --> 00:51:50.519 was I think Kyoshi like the intro or something with the earth air fire. 672 00:51:50.639 --> 00:51:54.159 Yeah, that's something maybe to pay attention to on a rewatch I think. 673 00:51:54.239 --> 00:52:00.719 So, yeah, is the voiceovers like whether if they're doing something where like 674 00:52:00.800 --> 00:52:07.079 each one represents a character. Yeah, I'm just gonna interject with something completely 675 00:52:07.159 --> 00:52:13.519 unrelated except about voiceover that I was I've been really enjoying The Only Murders in 676 00:52:13.559 --> 00:52:19.320 the Building, partially because it has different characters doing voiceovers at different point because 677 00:52:19.320 --> 00:52:23.920 it's a podcast and it just as you know, doing podcasting, and then 678 00:52:24.039 --> 00:52:29.920 like you know, having thoughts about narration in film where like most of the 679 00:52:29.960 --> 00:52:34.079 time it only really works for me, like in film noir, but like 680 00:52:34.239 --> 00:52:37.719 you can, you know, the intro to the animated series really works, 681 00:52:37.719 --> 00:52:39.920 like there is like at the beginning of every episode, it's like we're gonna 682 00:52:39.960 --> 00:52:45.320 give you the whole framing of the series right here with Katara just telling you 683 00:52:45.400 --> 00:52:47.639 this, and like here, They've kind of tried to do a few different 684 00:52:47.639 --> 00:52:52.039 things with it, and it hasn't felt super congruous to me. But I 685 00:52:52.079 --> 00:52:57.320 really, honestly, I'm actually really looking forward to rewatching the series. As 686 00:52:57.400 --> 00:53:05.239 much as I didn't enjoy certain choices early on, I do feel like getting 687 00:53:05.239 --> 00:53:09.559 to the end of this season and then understanding what they were going for rewatching 688 00:53:09.840 --> 00:53:15.159 the whole season through that lens of like kind of understanding the story that they 689 00:53:15.199 --> 00:53:19.039 want to tell. I do want to see how different it feels, because 690 00:53:19.079 --> 00:53:23.800 like I deliberately didn't rewatch the original animated series because I didn't want to be 691 00:53:23.880 --> 00:53:30.719 constantly comparing everything. Yet I find myself constantly comparison, Like I just can't 692 00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:35.039 help it, you know. But once I've seen a whole chunk of it, 693 00:53:35.159 --> 00:53:38.639 then rewatching it with itself as its own frame of reference instead the animated 694 00:53:38.679 --> 00:53:44.280 series, I do wonder how different that experience is going to be. Yeah, 695 00:53:44.320 --> 00:53:46.559 I think it's true. I mean I certainly feel like even just with 696 00:53:46.639 --> 00:53:52.519 what we've learned so far makes me feel like I like the first episodes more, 697 00:53:52.719 --> 00:53:55.639 you know, knowing what they're going for. I don't think I'm ever 698 00:53:55.679 --> 00:54:00.360 going to think that first scene was necessary, but they'll be. They'll be 699 00:54:00.760 --> 00:54:05.920 very different things because I already, like we did rewatch it before starting this, 700 00:54:06.719 --> 00:54:10.199 and in the animated show, like the Kenyon Guide episode, which they 701 00:54:10.320 --> 00:54:19.199 just like reference in the scene already was a pretty like low filler episode for 702 00:54:19.320 --> 00:54:22.760 me, So more them kind of get out here and be like, yeah, 703 00:54:22.840 --> 00:54:27.599 that happened, right right, Yeah, this is a pretty skippable episode. 704 00:54:27.639 --> 00:54:31.599 I mean, I feel like season one certainly had more of any of 705 00:54:31.639 --> 00:54:37.639 that than season two or three, you know, and was some some would 706 00:54:37.639 --> 00:54:40.639 say of uneven quality, some would say just like not as good, some 707 00:54:40.719 --> 00:54:45.159 would say, just like if you don't have tough in Azula, like it's 708 00:54:45.199 --> 00:54:49.440 just not gonna be as good yet, you know. Yeah, but wait, 709 00:54:49.519 --> 00:54:54.400 yeah right, Like I think I like season one more than most people 710 00:54:54.440 --> 00:54:59.239 do, but I definitely feel like it. There's a lot of episodes to 711 00:54:59.280 --> 00:55:01.880 me, but like that kind of episode, to me feels like it's not 712 00:55:02.000 --> 00:55:07.360 so much the experience of that episode on its own, it's the feeling that 713 00:55:07.400 --> 00:55:10.480 there have been a bunch of you know, quote unquote filler episodes, but 714 00:55:10.639 --> 00:55:16.480 like episodic episodes that makes it feel like this journey to the North Pole to 715 00:55:16.519 --> 00:55:22.280 the Northern Water Tribe feels like, ah, we're here finally now, whereas 716 00:55:22.320 --> 00:55:24.239 like now I'm gonna like, oh, we're already here. You know. 717 00:55:24.519 --> 00:55:30.360 Yeah, that was fast, And part of that, I think is that 718 00:55:30.440 --> 00:55:34.559 it's a shorter amount of episodes. But part of it's also because you know, 719 00:55:34.800 --> 00:55:37.039 we're watching it over three days and maybeople watching it over a full day, 720 00:55:37.119 --> 00:55:39.880 you know, instead of like week to week or something like that. 721 00:55:40.199 --> 00:55:44.199 Yeah, I mean I watched the original one, like the whole series in 722 00:55:44.280 --> 00:55:49.360 like a week, So that's the first season was like or very I'll also 723 00:55:49.400 --> 00:55:52.360 say, and there's kind of a general comment about fandom. But I think, 724 00:55:52.639 --> 00:55:55.679 to me, this is really proving it this. I think they're doing 725 00:55:55.679 --> 00:55:59.679 a very good job, especially in like those little reminders like oh yeah they 726 00:55:59.719 --> 00:56:04.760 Canyon, the Canyon eventually went on. This to me is blowing the water 727 00:56:04.920 --> 00:56:08.239 out of the idea of like, oh this new version ruined my childhood or 728 00:56:08.239 --> 00:56:13.719 they forever ruined the show. Like they're very clearly doing this, and they're 729 00:56:13.719 --> 00:56:19.039 like, no, we're doing something different. And like I imagine that the 730 00:56:19.480 --> 00:56:23.079 viewership of the Canyon episode, for example, went up a little bit because 731 00:56:23.079 --> 00:56:25.800 some people did watch that scene and go, oh, yeah, that was 732 00:56:25.800 --> 00:56:29.639 a really cool episode. I liked that. I'm gonna pause this and go 733 00:56:29.679 --> 00:56:35.119 back and watch it, you know, because you can, you know, 734 00:56:35.199 --> 00:56:38.199 because there's no this is not erasing any of that stuff. And at any 735 00:56:38.239 --> 00:56:42.440 point someone who can say, yeah, this isn't the version I love, 736 00:56:42.599 --> 00:56:45.199 I can just go back and watch that version. We have that already. 737 00:56:45.679 --> 00:56:53.400 Yeah, yeah that so that phrase like this new thing has ruined my childhood, 738 00:56:53.639 --> 00:57:00.599 right, you know what ruined my childhood? Night? Right? I 739 00:57:00.719 --> 00:57:05.280 love that writer? Like, have you have you watched it? Paul? 740 00:57:06.079 --> 00:57:10.079 It was on Netflix last year and I tried to rewatch it. It's terrible. 741 00:57:10.760 --> 00:57:16.000 It is an absolutely terrible show, like the misogyny of the character of 742 00:57:16.039 --> 00:57:20.800 Michael Knight, Like this is all on the side, so we all have 743 00:57:21.079 --> 00:57:24.039 But what I'm trying to say is we all have these fond memories of things 744 00:57:24.039 --> 00:57:30.119 from our childhood, just like Live with That, and some of the stuff 745 00:57:30.159 --> 00:57:35.880 is rewatchable, some isn't. But I don't like nothing new. Like if 746 00:57:35.880 --> 00:57:37.480 they made a new night Writer and it was bad, I'm not gonna be 747 00:57:37.559 --> 00:57:43.480 like this ruined night Writer for me, like very bad. So if you 748 00:57:43.679 --> 00:57:50.239 love Avatar, the original Avatar, love that, and like we already had 749 00:57:50.519 --> 00:57:53.840 this ruined it for us, like the live action movie in theory, like 750 00:57:54.039 --> 00:57:59.840 ruined it quotes here, quotes right, but it didn't Like you can just 751 00:58:00.039 --> 00:58:04.559 watch the animated show and it's still great. Yeah, yeah, I mean 752 00:58:04.920 --> 00:58:12.079 I'll make a distinction between something like a remake and something that supposedly shares canon 753 00:58:12.199 --> 00:58:17.440 with something where yeah, I've had to do a certain amount of mental work 754 00:58:19.119 --> 00:58:22.840 to like be able to watch something that's supposed to take place within the same 755 00:58:23.519 --> 00:58:28.320 framework as something else and be like, yeah, that's not part of my 756 00:58:29.079 --> 00:58:32.000 head cannon, Like that's I'm exercising that, which you know, certainly with 757 00:58:32.119 --> 00:58:37.320 Star Wars, I'm kind of separating certain things. But like the last two 758 00:58:37.360 --> 00:58:39.840 seasons of Dexter or like, ah, there's another show I don't even want 759 00:58:39.840 --> 00:58:45.239 to mention it, but like it. I loved the first two seasons. 760 00:58:45.320 --> 00:58:47.639 The last two I was like, you have ruined this show for me. 761 00:58:49.280 --> 00:58:52.239 Yeah, But then like, yeah, I guess I could still rewatch the 762 00:58:52.280 --> 00:58:55.760 first or second, you know, but there's I do. Yeah, there's 763 00:58:55.760 --> 00:58:59.480 a movie that I think ninety five percent of it is the best war movie 764 00:58:59.519 --> 00:59:01.559 I've ever seen. Oh yeah, and the last few minutes are some of 765 00:59:01.599 --> 00:59:08.079 the most manipulative offensive. And you can watch those movies. I now know 766 00:59:08.119 --> 00:59:14.119 exactly when it hit paused to stop latching something about saving a private ye. 767 00:59:14.239 --> 00:59:21.400 All right, back to Avatar a new topic, but go ahead, Okay. 768 00:59:22.360 --> 00:59:25.840 At the beginning of one of these episodes, they're riding on APA and 769 00:59:27.239 --> 00:59:32.840 they make they comment about like a past adventure, which is that Firebenders attacked 770 00:59:32.920 --> 00:59:38.920 them because Sokka was flirting with a Roman girl who has ended up being a 771 00:59:38.960 --> 00:59:45.719 Fire Nation soldier. Right that that never happened in the animated show, right, 772 00:59:45.920 --> 00:59:47.760 Like, that's not a reference to an episode as far as I know, 773 00:59:49.559 --> 00:59:53.000 and I kind of hated that because it's like, what about Suki. 774 00:59:54.719 --> 01:00:00.440 I think they're softening the blizz See. I honestly think because episode two and 775 01:00:00.760 --> 01:00:07.159 maybe some things that haven't happened yet are not that separated by a large number 776 01:00:07.199 --> 01:00:13.000 of events, they're trying to insert an event that makes it feel like those 777 01:00:13.000 --> 01:00:16.719 things will be more separated. Yes, so they're they're planting the seed of 778 01:00:16.800 --> 01:00:21.679 soccer. Is a player, yes, essentially. I wouldn't even say as 779 01:00:21.679 --> 01:00:23.639 a player. I would say as a fifteen year old boy. Yeah, 780 01:00:23.679 --> 01:00:28.519 you know, I was fifteen and I fell in love with a new person 781 01:00:28.559 --> 01:00:31.159 every three months, and well I was actually a player, so never mind. 782 01:00:31.239 --> 01:00:34.400 Yeah, I was gonna say I was fifteen and I did it. 783 01:00:34.480 --> 01:00:37.400 So I'm not saying that either of us is everybody, but I'm saying, 784 01:00:37.400 --> 01:00:43.280 like I do, I was fifteen and I pined for the same girl for 785 01:00:43.320 --> 01:00:47.599 like three years, So I need that out of Usaka. I'm just saying 786 01:00:47.639 --> 01:00:52.800 that, like, the different people are different and SOCCA is not. And 787 01:00:52.840 --> 01:00:54.360 the way his situation was, like if he was like, oh, yeah, 788 01:00:54.400 --> 01:00:58.079 I'm gonna be back with Suki in three months, then yes, I 789 01:00:58.079 --> 01:01:00.079 feel like that feels different. But I think the way that was set up 790 01:01:00.159 --> 01:01:04.480 is that was like a beautiful moment at summer camp that the two of them 791 01:01:04.480 --> 01:01:07.840 had and have no expectation of ever seeing each other again. Right, It's 792 01:01:07.880 --> 01:01:12.599 it's just it's weird to me because it feels like the I just don't have 793 01:01:12.679 --> 01:01:15.239 the feeling of a lot of time passing. Yeah, you know, and 794 01:01:15.360 --> 01:01:19.760 it show don't tell. They're telling you that time. They're telling you that 795 01:01:19.800 --> 01:01:24.599 time has passed. And you can tell someone something and then reinforce it with 796 01:01:25.960 --> 01:01:30.440 some things that give you that feel. And I feel like they've done the 797 01:01:30.559 --> 01:01:36.000 tell without them also showing some of the like I don't need a montage, 798 01:01:36.159 --> 01:01:38.679 you know, but I need like I don't know, maybe you're changing terrain 799 01:01:39.000 --> 01:01:45.960 or like, I don't know, give me a montage. I take it 800 01:01:46.000 --> 01:01:50.800 back. I just rewatched the Training movies, which pretty much sorry, I 801 01:01:50.960 --> 01:01:54.719 just be watched all the Rocky movies, which pretty much invented the modern concept 802 01:01:54.760 --> 01:02:00.840 of the of the training montage, you know, like get and But if 803 01:02:00.840 --> 01:02:04.599 you do them right, they are effective in what you need them to do, 804 01:02:04.639 --> 01:02:07.079 which is show the passage of time. Yeah. The problem with a 805 01:02:07.119 --> 01:02:13.519 montage is when you do a montage instead of actually giving any of a critical 806 01:02:13.559 --> 01:02:16.039 piece of content, Like when you're trying to show two people falling in love, 807 01:02:16.440 --> 01:02:20.440 and you like never show them talking to each other. You just show 808 01:02:20.480 --> 01:02:25.559 them doing this and that and just kind of like like meaningless things. Buying 809 01:02:25.639 --> 01:02:30.239 bread together at a farmer's market is the most loving thing you can do in 810 01:02:30.239 --> 01:02:34.440 a relationship. Paul, Sure, but I just want to hear the talk 811 01:02:34.519 --> 01:02:38.440 about whether it's sourdough or like or like you know, we like you know. 812 01:02:38.519 --> 01:02:42.960 I'll give you an example of dialogue. I'll give you an example from 813 01:02:43.000 --> 01:02:45.760 a movie that most of our listeners have probably never watched, so this is 814 01:02:45.760 --> 01:02:51.360 probably an incredibly unhelpful example, but I think, uh, the actor playing 815 01:02:51.880 --> 01:02:54.480 Commander Joo, one of the first things that I saw him in that Paul 816 01:02:54.519 --> 01:02:59.880 had reminded me of was in that great movie called Keeping the Faith where he 817 01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:05.159 played a karaoke singer. He played a karaoke salesman, and it did make 818 01:03:05.239 --> 01:03:08.480 me really wish that part of the celebration at the end of you know, 819 01:03:08.519 --> 01:03:12.840 when he's captured the avatar, that he was going to sing, because he's 820 01:03:12.840 --> 01:03:15.960 got a very distinctive and wonderfully bad singing voice. But putting that aside, 821 01:03:16.239 --> 01:03:21.400 at least that movie Keeping the Faith is I think my favorite rom com of 822 01:03:21.400 --> 01:03:22.840 all time. It is a one of the thing is an autor love letter 823 01:03:22.880 --> 01:03:27.199 to New York very much so in that it kind of like makes fun of 824 01:03:27.199 --> 01:03:31.119 people who aren't from New York City, which is wonderful. I love, 825 01:03:32.280 --> 01:03:37.960 I feel you, you get it. But in it, they show two 826 01:03:37.119 --> 01:03:45.760 characters falling in love and show you three different incredibly romantic scenes of them connecting, 827 01:03:45.880 --> 01:03:52.320 and then show you a montage of their relationship blossoming from their first night 828 01:03:52.400 --> 01:03:57.280 together into them seriously dating a couple of months later. And to me, 829 01:03:57.360 --> 01:04:00.559 it's it's a perfect example because I love the montage and it's said to a 830 01:04:00.559 --> 01:04:04.199 wonderful song. But if you didn't have those three scenes at the beginning of 831 01:04:04.199 --> 01:04:06.280 it, which they kind of with Paula Is saying, it wouldn't work at 832 01:04:06.320 --> 01:04:11.519 all. So, yeah, give us a full training scene and then show 833 01:04:11.639 --> 01:04:16.039 us like more of that happening, you know, give us a fully you 834 01:04:16.039 --> 01:04:19.199 know, give us like a good adventure they have, and then show us 835 01:04:19.239 --> 01:04:25.000 like three or more times of aang in a city helping people doing something and 836 01:04:25.039 --> 01:04:28.679 Soka doing something silly in the background. Exactly, give the montage, but 837 01:04:28.760 --> 01:04:31.360 don't skip the thing that the montage is basically saying, Hey, a bunch 838 01:04:31.440 --> 01:04:35.000 of things like this happened. Yeah, And what you could do, like 839 01:04:35.280 --> 01:04:42.199 in one of those montage scenes of like escaping fire Nation soldiers, is show 840 01:04:42.360 --> 01:04:46.079 like the cabbage guy again, yes, yes, and like show him screaming 841 01:04:46.159 --> 01:04:51.079 and they do it that way. Yeah, exactly. I want to shift 842 01:04:51.079 --> 01:04:55.599 gears and talk about a different part of the episodes, in part because we 843 01:04:55.679 --> 01:04:59.440 got some feedback about this. So we got an email from again I love 844 01:04:59.480 --> 01:05:02.679 the names all come up with. This one is from you know Nothing John 845 01:05:02.760 --> 01:05:09.599 Cena at gmail dot com, which is wonderful. Is he saying that John 846 01:05:09.679 --> 01:05:14.639 Cena doesn't know? I say, John sena is John Snow right? No? 847 01:05:14.800 --> 01:05:16.079 Yeah, yeah, so reference to you know nothing, John snow this 848 01:05:16.199 --> 01:05:20.760 is nothing John Cena? All right. I never watched that, so that's 849 01:05:20.760 --> 01:05:27.360 fair. So uh, they write, first time listening to the podcast. 850 01:05:27.400 --> 01:05:30.280 But I'm loving your avatar coverage. Thank you so much, looking forward to 851 01:05:30.360 --> 01:05:33.199 what else you cover. I was so psyched to see the Blue Spirit exclamation 852 01:05:33.239 --> 01:05:38.079 point xlmation point. Okay, I had seen this when I I had already 853 01:05:38.119 --> 01:05:41.519 seen this when I listened to your coverage of episodes three and four, and 854 01:05:41.519 --> 01:05:45.199 when you talked about Ang asserting that's okay to stay a child, I kept 855 01:05:45.199 --> 01:05:47.920 thinking of how he treats Zuko in these episodes. He doesn't see him as 856 01:05:47.920 --> 01:05:50.639 an enemy. He really wants to be his friend in a way, I 857 01:05:50.639 --> 01:05:56.159 think many of us adults quote unquote learn not to do and maybe the kids 858 01:05:56.159 --> 01:05:59.880 are right. What do you think? Love the coverage? Thanks y kJ 859 01:06:00.159 --> 01:06:12.039 say word, yeah, I really enjoyed how how Ange just like treated Zuko 860 01:06:12.159 --> 01:06:15.840 like a person, you know, after Zuko rescued him, and then he 861 01:06:15.880 --> 01:06:19.440 rescued Zuko and then he just talks to him. You know, he's like, 862 01:06:19.480 --> 01:06:23.679 I have to ask you a serious question. You know, what kind 863 01:06:23.679 --> 01:06:27.480 of calligraphy brush do you use? And then like they just talk to each 864 01:06:27.519 --> 01:06:30.920 other like people. And then like Zuko remembers to be angry, you know, 865 01:06:32.599 --> 01:06:35.719 but like he disarms him for a little bit, and then you know, 866 01:06:35.719 --> 01:06:39.880 and then he disarms him again with you know, the airbending makes the 867 01:06:40.440 --> 01:06:43.679 fire just go up and smoke, and then the boat the boat drift off 868 01:06:43.719 --> 01:06:49.400 and you know that's it. But I I always that was the moment in 869 01:06:49.440 --> 01:06:56.159 the original show when I kind of realized sort of who Zuko was and like 870 01:06:56.360 --> 01:06:59.360 maybe who he was going to be. Yeah, you know, and here 871 01:06:59.440 --> 01:07:02.000 I feel like they gave us a lot more of that before then, you 872 01:07:02.039 --> 01:07:04.280 know. I mean there were signs in the first show to kind of make 873 01:07:04.360 --> 01:07:09.559 them a little sympathetic, right, but not not quite to this extent where 874 01:07:09.599 --> 01:07:12.719 like, you know, and it's still kind of self serving, like because 875 01:07:12.760 --> 01:07:15.280 he's like, no, I don't want show to to rescue him. I 876 01:07:15.679 --> 01:07:17.760 want to or to capture him. I want to be the one who captures 877 01:07:17.840 --> 01:07:23.320 him. But like it's clear that there's you know, I think, on 878 01:07:23.400 --> 01:07:26.039 the one hand, in the animated show, that scene is like kind of 879 01:07:26.039 --> 01:07:29.239 more subtle in some ways because I don't think they talk. I think like 880 01:07:29.320 --> 01:07:32.000 Zuko is like unconscious or something. You know. It takes place later, 881 01:07:32.199 --> 01:07:36.719 right, Like this is a mashup, Like, yeah, it's sort of 882 01:07:36.840 --> 01:07:41.320 later. I mean it's late in season one. Yeah, yeah, we're 883 01:07:41.400 --> 01:07:44.280 late in season one, you know. Well, no, but it doesn't 884 01:07:44.280 --> 01:07:46.679 feel like it because it happens when they get it's literally in the last because 885 01:07:46.679 --> 01:07:49.719 it's when they get to the place that we're going to in season one, 886 01:07:51.079 --> 01:07:58.599 it happens to at the North Pole. Yeah. What what happens in the 887 01:07:58.679 --> 01:08:04.639 animated show is that Zuko succeeds in kidnapping Aang when he is in the spirit 888 01:08:04.679 --> 01:08:08.280 world. That's when the coastuff. Oh right, yeah, yeah, yeah, 889 01:08:08.280 --> 01:08:11.920 so he takes his body while it is yeah, his soul is in 890 01:08:11.960 --> 01:08:15.920 the spirit world. Yeah, and then like Aang reconnects with his body and 891 01:08:15.960 --> 01:08:18.720 they're in like an ice cave and they have this conversation essentially, right, 892 01:08:18.840 --> 01:08:20.960 no, no, but I'm talking about the rescue. There's a scene, 893 01:08:21.000 --> 01:08:25.239 there's a scene before yeah, yeah, where they don't have a conversation Blue 894 01:08:25.239 --> 01:08:28.439 Spirit Rescue, Yeah, does happen, So like they've they've kind of meshed 895 01:08:28.479 --> 01:08:32.199 those two together. Yeah yeah, okay, yeah yeah yeah. I was 896 01:08:32.239 --> 01:08:36.479 referring to like the first time, not when they have the conversation, but 897 01:08:36.600 --> 01:08:41.159 like when it's like a one sided conversation, when when Aang's just kind of 898 01:08:41.199 --> 01:08:45.039 talking to unconscious Zuko, like you know, basically like, yeah, we 899 01:08:45.119 --> 01:08:46.960 could have been friends. Yeah, you know, we were born in a 900 01:08:47.000 --> 01:08:54.520 different time kind of. And but here the this was like a more direct 901 01:08:55.159 --> 01:08:58.920 sort of instance of that, which is more like when they're in the in 902 01:08:58.960 --> 01:09:01.840 the cave. Yeah, yeah, I found it effective, you know. 903 01:09:01.920 --> 01:09:08.560 I I that was aside from like when he's with Giazzo, Like that was 904 01:09:09.439 --> 01:09:14.840 some of the Aang I've enjoyed the most, you know. And I definitely 905 01:09:14.840 --> 01:09:20.359 felt like as are our John Cena loving or or or disparaging friend, depend 906 01:09:20.399 --> 01:09:24.960 on how you want to read it. I think you're right that, like 907 01:09:25.000 --> 01:09:28.920 the this is set up perfectly by the by Boomy saying like you're a child 908 01:09:29.119 --> 01:09:30.840 and angry owning that and being like, yeah, I'm not going to change, 909 01:09:30.880 --> 01:09:34.000 you know, right, yeah, exactly, like I'm I'm going to 910 01:09:35.399 --> 01:09:39.479 you know. I mean there's like a saying like empty your cop, right, 911 01:09:39.800 --> 01:09:44.800 and like I think Aang has a very empty cop a lot of the 912 01:09:44.840 --> 01:09:48.319 time, where he's willing to take people as they are and doesn't have a 913 01:09:48.359 --> 01:09:56.199 lot of preconceptions and doesn't see why things can't be a way that nobody else 914 01:09:56.199 --> 01:09:59.520 thinks they can be just because nobody because that's not how they are, Like 915 01:09:59.640 --> 01:10:02.199 it's like white, why not? You know. But it's very much the 916 01:10:02.239 --> 01:10:04.920 concept of look to the future, not the past, because not only for 917 01:10:05.000 --> 01:10:09.319 yourself, but also like, yeah, Zuko has tried to attack me in 918 01:10:09.359 --> 01:10:12.199 the past, but I want to know what will Zuko do in the future 919 01:10:12.199 --> 01:10:15.439 and how can I influence that. Yeah, and it's a good reminder that 920 01:10:15.399 --> 01:10:21.279 Zuko is also a child, you know, a teenager like not an adult, 921 01:10:21.520 --> 01:10:27.560 not fully an adult. And it was nice to see that moment from 922 01:10:27.600 --> 01:10:31.319 him. But it was also nice to see him revert to form, right, 923 01:10:31.399 --> 01:10:35.760 yeah, yeah, because I yeah, I think said earlier, like 924 01:10:35.960 --> 01:10:44.880 Zuko's performance, Dallas's performance not just with dialogue, but just like his facial 925 01:10:44.920 --> 01:10:49.119 expressions of his anger, like is really effective for me. And it's such 926 01:10:49.159 --> 01:10:53.880 an essential His anger is such an essential part of his character, and to 927 01:10:53.960 --> 01:10:57.760 be able to express that not just with words or even like with yells, 928 01:10:57.800 --> 01:11:02.520 but just with a glare is lovely to see for sure. And and that 929 01:11:03.479 --> 01:11:08.439 mixed with like the inner conflict and the yells. Though we did get one 930 01:11:08.520 --> 01:11:12.840 really good Zuko you know. It's like, oh that there is Yeah, 931 01:11:12.920 --> 01:11:15.640 yeah, you're right. I think it was when on the ship right with 932 01:11:15.760 --> 01:11:19.600 Iro, where Iro is like trying to tell him something like that he needs 933 01:11:19.640 --> 01:11:26.000 to do or not do. He's just like yeah, but he's able to 934 01:11:26.560 --> 01:11:31.359 convey that same emotion also just with with a look and yeah, and yeah, 935 01:11:31.399 --> 01:11:38.640 he and Ken Leung continue to be Joo or Joo, which the different 936 01:11:38.720 --> 01:11:43.880 characters are pronouncing it different ways. But I guess I'll mostly say Joao because 937 01:11:43.880 --> 01:11:49.439 that's how the character himself is saying his name. Yeah, but they continue 938 01:11:49.479 --> 01:11:55.920 to be like my two top performances of just like really standout performances. Yeah. 939 01:11:56.039 --> 01:12:02.479 Yeah, the the joo like writing speech, Oh yes, was so 940 01:12:03.039 --> 01:12:10.079 good. Yeah, it's like so slimy. Yeah it really is. Now 941 01:12:11.479 --> 01:12:14.640 I don't write that. I don't want to focus on this for too long. 942 01:12:15.479 --> 01:12:16.279 We haven't talked about it all, Yetcause I don't think it's real. 943 01:12:16.279 --> 01:12:21.079 They come up, But can we agree that if you're standing at the top 944 01:12:21.119 --> 01:12:27.000 of a tall wall, like a fairly high up wall, and a gust 945 01:12:27.000 --> 01:12:33.920 of air quite like concussively hits you and knocks you off that wall, that 946 01:12:34.000 --> 01:12:42.199 the chance of lethality happening upon your reaching the ground is not insignificant. Nope. 947 01:12:43.760 --> 01:12:46.920 I watched that scene. I was like, oh, man, like, 948 01:12:47.319 --> 01:12:55.760 seriously, that was my first reaction. But Zuko's carving people up with 949 01:12:55.760 --> 01:12:59.479 those blades, like that's not arguable. I don't think no, no, 950 01:12:59.720 --> 01:13:02.680 it is. He I mean, I think it's mostly weapon on weapon and 951 01:13:02.840 --> 01:13:09.479 like not like it's comic book violence. I mean, I know, I 952 01:13:09.560 --> 01:13:12.079 know. My wife turned to me. It was like she was like, 953 01:13:12.239 --> 01:13:15.279 well, that's got to kill some people, right, I'm like, no, 954 01:13:15.640 --> 01:13:20.239 it doesn't. Like I understand physics in the world that we inhabit, 955 01:13:20.760 --> 01:13:25.920 and I understand physics in the world that they inhabit, and I understand that 956 01:13:25.960 --> 01:13:32.159 those are not the same physics or biologies. Is like, yeah, like 957 01:13:33.520 --> 01:13:41.239 science just doesn't work the same in those worlds. And yes, falling off 958 01:13:41.279 --> 01:13:45.159 of something that high in our world is not a good idea. And if 959 01:13:45.159 --> 01:13:49.359 you knock someone off of something like that, you might kill them. Mm 960 01:13:49.439 --> 01:13:55.720 hmm. In their world, the wind, what happens, The gust of 961 01:13:55.800 --> 01:14:00.760 wind will push in their fall exactly, it'll'll like a pillow. It'll lift 962 01:14:00.800 --> 01:14:04.359 them up just before they they might get there because they're lifted up by the 963 01:14:04.439 --> 01:14:09.159 wind, and exactly the wind is carrying man like, they'll still fall hard. 964 01:14:09.680 --> 01:14:15.000 Yes, that's my logic. All I know is in the Spider in 965 01:14:15.039 --> 01:14:18.079 the Spider Man video game, which is awesome, you are constantly knocking bad 966 01:14:18.119 --> 01:14:23.239 guys off of roofs, and then the camera is making sure that you see 967 01:14:23.760 --> 01:14:27.199 that the guy is like webbed up along the side of the building. You 968 01:14:27.239 --> 01:14:30.239 know, you know, don't so I just want to see that gust once, 969 01:14:31.800 --> 01:14:35.119 right, yeah, fortunately, and uh yeah, I mean I do 970 01:14:35.159 --> 01:14:40.920 think like in an animated series, I think they often not necessarily every time, 971 01:14:40.960 --> 01:14:45.000 but like usually we'll show no, look they didn't die, they're okay. 972 01:14:45.279 --> 01:14:48.439 The parachute Joe the Spider Man is a is a poignant example though, 973 01:14:48.479 --> 01:14:53.560 because you know they did that musical and that was awful. Oh yeah, 974 01:14:53.760 --> 01:15:00.760 that's which underscores that falling from heights is very bad. Really laugh but yes, 975 01:15:00.840 --> 01:15:03.600 yeah, yeah, no, it's yeah, it's on this cheery note. 976 01:15:03.880 --> 01:15:06.119 We've been a little while. Don have some last things they want to 977 01:15:06.119 --> 01:15:17.640 bring up. H I don't know. George takes has face Steeler co Okay. 978 01:15:17.680 --> 01:15:19.880 I was wondering if that's who that was. I thought that's what his 979 01:15:19.960 --> 01:15:26.680 voice, who that voice was, which is fair because he he runs the 980 01:15:26.720 --> 01:15:30.319 prison that is specifically mentioned in one of the other episodes, I believe, 981 01:15:30.479 --> 01:15:36.199 so I'd of glad that he said he like he still got in. It's 982 01:15:36.199 --> 01:15:40.439 fun to have him. I don't have anything to add to that, just 983 01:15:40.520 --> 01:15:44.800 that he's fantastic. So just keep keep putting him in things. Thank you. 984 01:15:45.600 --> 01:15:51.439 Yeah, yeah, I guess I would just add like I'm I'm looking 985 01:15:51.439 --> 01:15:55.439 forward to seeing the last two episodes. I might watch them right after we 986 01:15:55.479 --> 01:15:59.279 wrap, and then I might watch all the episodes tomorrow, like while playing 987 01:15:59.319 --> 01:16:02.840 poker or some thing. I don't know, we'll see, Like I kind 988 01:16:02.880 --> 01:16:06.920 of really am looking forward to the feel of like seeing everything in a kind 989 01:16:06.920 --> 01:16:11.920 of like in a row, sort of like in my feeling, like as 990 01:16:11.920 --> 01:16:16.560 it's meant to be seen, as we have denied ourselves for all your podcasting 991 01:16:16.680 --> 01:16:21.479 listening pleasure, ye we you know it. It's not a show that like 992 01:16:21.520 --> 01:16:24.800 after the first two episodes, I was like, oh man, I'm like 993 01:16:24.920 --> 01:16:28.279 really have to listen watch three and four right away, you know, and 994 01:16:28.479 --> 01:16:31.560 honestly, you know where the story is going. It does? It does? 995 01:16:31.760 --> 01:16:34.760 Yeah, and it you know, I know we're building to a climax 996 01:16:34.880 --> 01:16:39.399 end of season. But like if we had done one episode at a time, 997 01:16:39.439 --> 01:16:43.000 I don't know. The first episode, I had time getting through it, 998 01:16:43.079 --> 01:16:45.880 you know, like I literally turned it off twice and thought, like 999 01:16:45.479 --> 01:16:50.720 I do I have to tell Matthew that like it's like you two have fun, 1000 01:16:50.920 --> 01:16:54.239 you know, And then I mean I was fully ready for it and 1001 01:16:54.760 --> 01:17:01.880 especial especially like if Aang had reached for the meat I just done. No, 1002 01:17:01.880 --> 01:17:03.680 No, I would, I would. I would definitely want to be 1003 01:17:03.720 --> 01:17:10.800 on that episode. Yeah, some words that some words, but but yeah, 1004 01:17:10.880 --> 01:17:15.159 I'm I'm. I feel like they have availed themselves well from where they 1005 01:17:15.199 --> 01:17:18.319 started. And I did go back and rewatch like the bit that I'd skipped, 1006 01:17:18.319 --> 01:17:21.520 and it was maybe not as bad as I thought it was maybe going 1007 01:17:21.560 --> 01:17:30.159 to be, but like it just it really yeah yeah, and like maybe 1008 01:17:30.199 --> 01:17:35.199 because I'd already seen further ahead, you know. Yeah, but and like 1009 01:17:35.319 --> 01:17:41.640 it's it is cool to see like Airbenders do, like cool Airbender things. 1010 01:17:41.680 --> 01:17:45.279 I mean, it sucks that they're all getting killed, but like it actually 1011 01:17:45.279 --> 01:17:48.960 did make it feel like really like could they really wipe them all out? 1012 01:17:49.119 --> 01:17:56.760 Like it feels like any other day? Yeah, yeah, And I did 1013 01:17:56.840 --> 01:17:59.439 kind of like that line too, you know, like on any other day, 1014 01:17:59.479 --> 01:18:01.239 you know, you might be able to defeat me, but not today. 1015 01:18:02.680 --> 01:18:11.159 But yeah, it I feel like they've they've chosen a tone mostly, 1016 01:18:11.840 --> 01:18:15.359 you know, they've chosen a direction and made some serious choices that aren't the 1017 01:18:15.399 --> 01:18:21.199 ones I would have made. But I think aside from some really on the 1018 01:18:21.239 --> 01:18:30.359 nose dialogue. I think they've overall done a pretty good job of doing of 1019 01:18:30.439 --> 01:18:33.520 telling the story that they've decided to tell, and I just view it like 1020 01:18:33.560 --> 01:18:40.439 I'm watching a different story about the same ish characters, and yeah, some 1021 01:18:40.479 --> 01:18:43.840 of the performances are really what sells it for me, you know. I 1022 01:18:43.880 --> 01:18:47.239 think that's where I am. And we talked a lot actually before we sat 1023 01:18:47.279 --> 01:18:49.880 down for this project about how did we want to do it, because but 1024 01:18:50.039 --> 01:18:55.279 Paul and I really love binging. I think I generally prefer this method of 1025 01:18:55.399 --> 01:18:58.520 consuming new media than waiting week to week, especially when it feels like the 1026 01:18:58.720 --> 01:19:04.000 artificial you know, cliffhangers and stuff like that. And I think I think 1027 01:19:04.039 --> 01:19:09.760 we were correct that if we had watched all eight episodes, you know, 1028 01:19:10.000 --> 01:19:13.279 when we tried to record on the first two, we have already known where 1029 01:19:13.279 --> 01:19:15.479 they were going. And I think it was actually helpful to be able to 1030 01:19:15.479 --> 01:19:16.359 be like, yeah, we're watching this right after we've seen it, we 1031 01:19:16.359 --> 01:19:19.920 don't know and then because then it feels a lot more satisfying to talk about 1032 01:19:19.920 --> 01:19:25.199 these later things. And I think for me, at least, I feel 1033 01:19:25.199 --> 01:19:29.000 like if I had binged this on my own, I would have been I've 1034 01:19:29.039 --> 01:19:30.800 been having so many feelings and how many like am I wrong? Do this 1035 01:19:30.800 --> 01:19:34.000 feel really off? And like it's felt really validating a time to have like 1036 01:19:34.079 --> 01:19:36.479 us all agreeing. I'm like, yeah, that felt really off, or 1037 01:19:36.520 --> 01:19:39.920 like this is kind of working, and you know, then a couple of 1038 01:19:39.920 --> 01:19:42.520 times I'm way out in the woods, you two or somewhere else, and 1039 01:19:42.560 --> 01:19:45.960 that's fine too, But I felt like I would have probably been stopping and 1040 01:19:45.039 --> 01:19:48.279 like checking Twitter to like get all that sort of my opinions before. So 1041 01:19:48.319 --> 01:19:50.600 actually, I really liked doing this, and I really I'm glad we've done 1042 01:19:50.600 --> 01:19:54.239 this. I'm glad we're gonna wrap it up tomorrow and then yeah, I 1043 01:19:54.279 --> 01:19:58.039 probably will sit down and watch the whole thing as well again. So and 1044 01:19:58.399 --> 01:20:01.359 I know that we have a number of kind come and get this show is 1045 01:20:01.399 --> 01:20:04.119 beloved to a lot of the people who've been on this podcast and been on 1046 01:20:04.119 --> 01:20:08.520 our Star Wars podcast, so on surprising, We're definitely gonna have them come 1047 01:20:08.560 --> 01:20:12.119 on as well. I'm supposed to say this at the beginning of the episodes, 1048 01:20:12.159 --> 01:20:15.159 I'm getting bad about I'm getting better at that slowly, but obviously did 1049 01:20:15.159 --> 01:20:17.199 not come with the beginning of the episode, but we do have lots of 1050 01:20:17.199 --> 01:20:21.079 social media. You can find us. The comment from you know nothing came 1051 01:20:21.159 --> 01:20:25.479 through by email, but you can find us in email, Twitter, TikTok, 1052 01:20:25.640 --> 01:20:28.319 Instagram all the ways to do that, or in the show notes. 1053 01:20:28.439 --> 01:20:31.680 In the show notes. Also is we're turning onto our website, Theethicalpana dot 1054 01:20:31.760 --> 01:20:34.079 com. You can find out all the ways to become a member as a 1055 01:20:34.119 --> 01:20:38.199 memory, you get bonus content, you get ad free content. You get 1056 01:20:38.239 --> 01:20:41.279 bonus content both at the end of every episode and as well as some bonus 1057 01:20:41.279 --> 01:20:45.199 episodes at least one a month. We're gonna try and do more. And 1058 01:20:45.239 --> 01:20:46.079 also it'sest a great way to help us keep the lights on. If you 1059 01:20:46.119 --> 01:20:49.720 really like what we're doing, please like and subscribe. Please share these episodes 1060 01:20:49.760 --> 01:20:53.720 with your friends, Please talk about them with others, writing a review for 1061 01:20:53.800 --> 01:20:58.840 us on Apple podcasts or iTunes I guess it's called or you know any of 1062 01:20:58.840 --> 01:21:02.079 the other wherever you get your podcasts, uh, reading reviews for us, 1063 01:21:02.159 --> 01:21:05.560 Like to subscribe, become members. All of this great ways to do it. 1064 01:21:05.680 --> 01:21:09.720 So thank you all so much for listening on behalf of myself, Greeky 1065 01:21:09.760 --> 01:21:15.000 and Paul, thank you all so much. Yip Yip oh, someone just 1066 01:21:15.239 --> 01:21:19.079 became a member the Light one Brighter. No, I don't know what I 1067 01:21:19.119 --> 01:21:25.239 was supposed to say. I haven't given Paul that right to that now, 1068 01:21:28.000 --> 01:21:29.600 HM, and what U