1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:03,720 Hey, everybody. We had a little bit of a scheduling snappoo this week, 2 00:00:03,879 --> 00:00:07,200 and so we didn't get an episode recorded, and I wanted to make 3 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:11,080 sure that you all got one. So I am recording an episode. We 4 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:13,759 are going to be getting ahead here in a couple of weeks because I'm going 5 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:17,719 to Microsoft Connect and Microsoft likes to hook me up with all of the cool 6 00:00:17,719 --> 00:00:21,399 people there, so hoping to get some really, really great stuff there. 7 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:24,199 But in the meantime, I thought, you know what, I'll jump in 8 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,800 and talk about something that I've been thinking about a lot lately that we don't 9 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:32,840 have an episode coming up on soon. So there are two things. One 10 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,159 of them is entrepreneurship, and we did get an episode scheduled for that in 11 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:39,560 December, which will probably come out in January. But the other thing that 12 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,119 I've been working on lately is a course on how to get a job. 13 00:00:42,399 --> 00:00:44,840 And I've been talking about this for a while, but I finally actually got 14 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:49,479 things scheduled. So November sixth is when it starts, which is about a 15 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:53,399 week after this comes out. So if you're looking for a job or you 16 00:00:53,439 --> 00:00:56,439 want to know how to kind of beef up your resume or see if there's 17 00:00:56,479 --> 00:01:00,359 something better out there, this course will cover all that. I'm not going 18 00:01:00,439 --> 00:01:03,679 to plug it too heavily beyond that, I just want to kind of get 19 00:01:03,679 --> 00:01:06,280 that out there so that you know that it's out there, it's available. 20 00:01:06,719 --> 00:01:10,760 I'll go ahead and give you the link as well. It is devchat, 21 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:17,120 dot TV, Slash, get dash, a Dash, coder Dash job Dash, 22 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:21,439 full Dash access and I'll probably come up with some way to shorten that 23 00:01:21,519 --> 00:01:23,599 up and put a link to it in the show notes. But anyway, 24 00:01:23,599 --> 00:01:25,799 if you're interested in the course, you can go check it out. What 25 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:27,760 I'm going to do here over the next half hour to an hour is I'm 26 00:01:27,799 --> 00:01:34,719 basically just going to drop some of the big core pieces of the course. 27 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:38,599 Now, obviously I can't do the entire course because the entire course is eight 28 00:01:38,719 --> 00:01:42,319 sessions which are two hours ish long each, So I can't give you everything 29 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:47,519 for free. I wish you could, but I can't, And this will 30 00:01:47,519 --> 00:01:52,120 help kind of give you a flavor for what's out there. So let me 31 00:01:52,239 --> 00:01:55,560 just jump in here and talk briefly about it. One of the things that 32 00:01:55,599 --> 00:01:59,680 I hear a lot from people is essentially how do I get a great job? 33 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:02,599 And a lot of the people who are out there applying are essentially in 34 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,680 a position where they're saying, look, all the companies out there that I'm 35 00:02:06,719 --> 00:02:10,919 talking to are looking for senior developers and they're not hiring junior folks. And 36 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,000 to be perfectly honest, when I talk to companies and I'm like, hey, 37 00:02:15,039 --> 00:02:19,639 you know, are you hiring junior developers, the issue that they come 38 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:23,960 out with is well, not really, because either we wind up training them, 39 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:28,599 they leave, or the other thing that happens is is we've gotten such 40 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:30,879 a mixed bag with junior developers that we never know what we're going to wind 41 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:36,039 up with. So essentially, what you need is you need to have some 42 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:40,759 kind of reliability or selling point that you can give to these companies so that 43 00:02:40,759 --> 00:02:44,840 they feel good about bringing you on. So either you're going to learn quickly, 44 00:02:45,159 --> 00:02:49,319 you're going to stick around for a while. I hesitate a little bit 45 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,599 to tell people to make that kind of a commitment, but if you can, 46 00:02:52,719 --> 00:02:54,120 you know, make a commitment to stick around for a year or so, 47 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:59,479 or hey, look, you know what if things go well over the 48 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:00,759 next few months, so I can make that kind of a commitment or something 49 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:04,879 like that, that does help. But the other thing is is that a 50 00:03:04,879 --> 00:03:07,560 lot of the boot camps are churning people out. You've got people who are 51 00:03:07,599 --> 00:03:10,520 self teaching, and yeah, they get innundated with all these new people and 52 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:15,919 it's really hard for them to know what these folks are capable of. Then 53 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:20,840 the other end of this or the other part of this problem is the people 54 00:03:20,879 --> 00:03:28,159 who have been in programming for a year or two and they go out they 55 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:30,639 get that job, right, so they've been out there for a year, 56 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:34,120 and then they're applying around and it's the same kind of thing that they don't 57 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,520 have enough experience, et cetera, et cetera, and they don't really know 58 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:39,120 how to put themselves out there so that people will want to hire them, 59 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:44,960 and they don't know how to frame their experience so that people know what they're 60 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:50,240 capable of. And so we kind of walk through this process of getting everything 61 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,400 together so that you can show the companies that you're the kind of person they 62 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:57,599 want to hire. Now, I'm going to take a little bit of a 63 00:03:57,599 --> 00:04:00,560 step back, because there are things that you can do to wind up in 64 00:04:00,599 --> 00:04:05,120 a better position than you otherwise would. And I think a lot of people 65 00:04:05,199 --> 00:04:08,919 really get hung up on well, I just want a better paying job, 66 00:04:09,199 --> 00:04:11,439 or I just want a better job, or I don't want to work with 67 00:04:11,479 --> 00:04:15,479 this boss anymore that I don't like, or something like that. And in 68 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,639 some cases that's helpful. In in other cases it's not. Generally. What 69 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,480 I tell people to do, and I actually have a worksheet for this is 70 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:25,240 I tell them to sit down and figure out what kind of job they want. 71 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:30,639 So some people they want a job where they can interact with smart people. 72 00:04:30,959 --> 00:04:33,560 Other people want to just show up, sit down, don't bug me. 73 00:04:33,639 --> 00:04:38,040 I'll get my code written. So you kind of need to know about 74 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:41,000 that if you've had a job or two in the past. The other thing 75 00:04:41,079 --> 00:04:44,079 is is some people are like, I don't want an authoritarian boss, or 76 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,720 I don't want a boss that hovers. Other people want a boss that's involved. 77 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:51,120 So again, you know, you kind of work off of this definition 78 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:55,800 of what you want based on where you've been, so you know what kind 79 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:59,439 of people you want to work for, you know what kinds of problems you 80 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:02,439 want to solve. Unless you're really really new and you just haven't tried them 81 00:05:02,439 --> 00:05:06,079 all, right, then in that case it's I want a job where I 82 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:09,800 can try out a lot of different things and figure out what I like. 83 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:13,199 You may already be able to do that with some of the boot camps and 84 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:15,920 other online learning systems that are out there, and sometimes it's a little bit 85 00:05:15,959 --> 00:05:19,920 tricky to get there until you've actually worked in a job right and you figured 86 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:25,279 out, you know, I really really hate medical technology or I really really 87 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:30,839 love financial budgeting technology. So you'll figure out pretty fast, Okay, this 88 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,120 is the kind of area I want to work in. Some people, the 89 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,839 fulfillment they get out of their job is the fact that they feel like they're 90 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:40,319 making a difference. And I can tell you that at my first job out 91 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,600 of college, I was actually doing tech support there. I wasn't a programmer 92 00:05:43,639 --> 00:05:49,759 there. Technically, I did wind up building the first pass along with one 93 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:54,279 or two other folks that I was working with at the system that they used 94 00:05:54,319 --> 00:05:58,120 to do the tech support. So I did program there, but that wasn't 95 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:00,680 my job title. My job title was the guy that ran the tech support 96 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,360 department. That's what I did. And then I moved to QA and then 97 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:09,519 eventually got a job doing development another company. But one thing that I felt 98 00:06:09,519 --> 00:06:12,120 really good about at that job was that I felt like we were making a 99 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,959 difference because the company did online backup, and we would hear back from people. 100 00:06:16,439 --> 00:06:23,360 My computer died and I had a backup with Mosey, and I didn't 101 00:06:23,399 --> 00:06:28,720 lose all my kids' photos or it saved me hundreds of dollars or thousands of 102 00:06:28,759 --> 00:06:32,160 dollars or however much. Right, So I felt like I was making a 103 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:35,279 difference. And for some people that's it, and some people they have pretty 104 00:06:35,319 --> 00:06:38,920 specific areas that they feel like they can make a difference in, and for 105 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,680 other people, all that really matters is that they're helping folks out. So 106 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,759 again, just kind of think through these things, think through what do I 107 00:06:46,879 --> 00:06:49,519 want? What do I want out of this job. You can put a 108 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:54,240 number down for salary too. Some people that's a way they keep score. 109 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:58,439 Other people that's if I can pay for everything, right, if I don't 110 00:06:58,439 --> 00:07:00,279 have to think about whether or not I can forward to blah blah blah for 111 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:04,959 my kids or my wife or myself, then I'm making enough. And for 112 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:09,720 other people it's I want to maximize salary because that's what matters to me. 113 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,480 Right, It's a scorekeeping game, and none of this is right or wrong. 114 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:17,160 It's just the way it is. So anyway, the worksheet will walk 115 00:07:17,199 --> 00:07:20,639 you through a lot of this, But basically what it breaks down to is 116 00:07:20,959 --> 00:07:24,759 who do you want to work for or who do you want to work with? 117 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:27,000 What kind of a job do you want? What kinds of things are 118 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,920 you going to do? Does the technology matter? What kind of technology you're 119 00:07:29,959 --> 00:07:32,120 going to be working in? What's the working environment? Like? Are you 120 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,000 going to be in a desk in the middle of an open room, open 121 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:38,680 space? Can you not work under those conditions? You know, maybe you 122 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:42,800 work in a smaller room with your team or in your own office, and 123 00:07:42,839 --> 00:07:45,319 can you reasonably expect that? Right, because if you're a junior developer, 124 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:48,439 you're probably not going to wind up in your own office. But then you've 125 00:07:48,439 --> 00:07:51,199 also got the aspects of who you work with. Do you want to work 126 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:55,279 with a lot of really senior people? Do you want to work with a 127 00:07:55,319 --> 00:07:58,720 lot of people? About it your level? Another person that you have to 128 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,040 deal with is your boss, So you know, is your boss hands on? 129 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:03,920 Hands off? You know, we talked about a lot of that stuff. 130 00:08:05,399 --> 00:08:09,879 And again then the compensation and there's the salary, but also benefits, 131 00:08:09,959 --> 00:08:13,879 right, how many days off do you want or need? What kind of 132 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,439 flexibility do you want or need? A lot of people take into account whether 133 00:08:16,519 --> 00:08:20,319 or not they want to be remote, and so you've got a lot of 134 00:08:20,319 --> 00:08:24,560 these different ideas around what this job is. So write them all down right. 135 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:26,759 You may not be able to find a place that does all of them, 136 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:31,360 but you may be able to find a place that hits most of them. 137 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:33,440 You may also be able to say, you know what, some of 138 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:37,840 these things are really really really important to me, and theyre kind of must 139 00:08:37,879 --> 00:08:43,000 have things. And then there are other things on this list that aren't right. 140 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:48,039 So it'd be really nice to have a boss it's a little more hands 141 00:08:48,039 --> 00:08:50,840 off. But when it comes right down to it, if the boss is 142 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:54,840 a little more hands on, I'm generally okay with that. But if I 143 00:08:54,919 --> 00:09:00,240 have to work in an open cubicle farm or an open office layout where people 144 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,240 are walking up to me all day bugging me, I can't deal. Or 145 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:07,879 maybe you know what, I like the interactions. So if people are walking 146 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,320 by and we collaborate all day, that's cool. But if my boss comes 147 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:15,679 by too often, it's going to drive me insane. So you know, 148 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:20,320 you figure out which of these things are just critically important and optimize for those, 149 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:24,080 and then you can start doing some research as far as which companies meet 150 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:28,000 those criteria and things like that, And one thing that I found for a 151 00:09:28,039 --> 00:09:31,840 lot of that is that if you can talk to employees that work at those 152 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,720 companies, you can figure out pretty fast whether or not they match up with 153 00:09:35,759 --> 00:09:39,440 your criteria. One other thing to keep in mind with a lot of this 154 00:09:39,639 --> 00:09:43,200 is that if you go on LinkedIn, so some people they want to work 155 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,480 in a certain geographic area or they want to work remote. So if you're 156 00:09:46,519 --> 00:09:48,600 going to work remote, you can go to like WeWork, remotely dot com 157 00:09:50,039 --> 00:09:52,200 or some of the other remote work websites and see what you can line up. 158 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,120 Remote is also a little bit easier sometimes to do as a freelancer, 159 00:09:56,159 --> 00:09:58,759 so you may want to give that a try. But if you're looking at 160 00:09:58,759 --> 00:10:03,360 a sacific geographic area, some of the best things that you can do are 161 00:10:03,799 --> 00:10:07,480 go to the meetups in that area and meet people who work and live in 162 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:13,120 that area. So if you're already there, you can easily do that. 163 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,200 If you're not already there, I'll talk about that here in a second. 164 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,879 I go into a whole lot more detail on how to do that in the 165 00:10:18,919 --> 00:10:22,000 course. But on the flip side, yeah, you do that. You 166 00:10:22,039 --> 00:10:26,320 can also go on LinkedIn and you can do a search for companies that are 167 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:30,679 within a certain area, and I think it's usually by zip code is the 168 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,360 way that you do that. And so you just pick all the zip codes 169 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:35,639 that you're willing to work in, and you just work out of that and 170 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,559 it'll tell you what companies are there. And you can do a search for 171 00:10:39,759 --> 00:10:43,200 say you want to work in JavaScript, you want to work in no JS 172 00:10:43,279 --> 00:10:50,240 or Angular or React or View or any number of these other technologies out there 173 00:10:50,279 --> 00:10:54,679 in JavaScript, you can actually search and a lot of these companies will have 174 00:10:54,960 --> 00:11:01,240 people that have those things listed in their profile. And so you look at 175 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:07,360 the profile and you say, oh okay, John Doe works for ABC Company 176 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:13,639 and he does Angular, and so an ABC company is you know, close 177 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,200 enough to where I live, to where the commute is about what I want 178 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:20,639 it to be. That's usually what it boils down to. So then you 179 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:22,759 go and you find out more about ABC Company and see if they line up 180 00:11:22,799 --> 00:11:28,000 with all the stuff that we talked about in that worksheet or in that process. 181 00:11:28,519 --> 00:11:31,960 And as you do that, then what you start to find out is, 182 00:11:31,039 --> 00:11:37,000 oh okay, ABC company builds widgets and they have an online shopping cart 183 00:11:37,159 --> 00:11:41,759 and that's what their developers work on, and you know what, that kind 184 00:11:41,759 --> 00:11:43,559 of lines up with where I want to be at, or maybe it doesn't 185 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,279 right, and so you cross them off the list, or you put them 186 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:50,480 a little lower on the list because they don't meet as many other criteria for 187 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:54,679 you. But let's say that ABC company actually lines up. Then what you 188 00:11:54,759 --> 00:11:58,759 do is you start trying to figure out who the people who are making the 189 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:03,919 decision to hire are, because if you can do that, then essentially what 190 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:07,399 you can do is you can start showing them that you're the kind of person 191 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:11,440 they like to hire. You can get a lot of information about that off 192 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:15,600 of LinkedIn as well. You can also go to glassdoor dot com and a 193 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,039 few other companies because it'll give you an idea of who the people they've already 194 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:22,240 hired are and that gives you an idea of whether or not you fit in. 195 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:26,399 And so if they've hired people at about your experience level, then you're 196 00:12:26,399 --> 00:12:31,279 in good shape. If they've hired people who seem to have a similar personality 197 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:35,519 or approach to coding or anything else, again you're in good shape because you 198 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:39,799 can go ahead and apply and it looks like they hire people that are like 199 00:12:39,879 --> 00:12:43,600 you. One other thing that I'm just going to back up on because I 200 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,039 did say that I was going to talk about if you don't live in that 201 00:12:46,159 --> 00:12:50,480 area, one of the things I encourage people to do if that's the case 202 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:54,600 is a look and see if the local groups have some kind of forum or 203 00:12:54,879 --> 00:13:01,960 slack room or Google group, email lists, anything like that where they interact 204 00:13:01,039 --> 00:13:07,080 online, because you can join in and interact online that way. So let's 205 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:11,399 say you live in Boston, you want to move to LA for whatever reason, 206 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:13,879 right, you have some family there or something, you have to move 207 00:13:13,919 --> 00:13:18,519 because you have to go take care of your mother or something, or maybe 208 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:20,559 you've just always wanted to live in LA. I mean, whatever the reason, 209 00:13:20,639 --> 00:13:24,639 right, So yes, you go. When you find the LA group, 210 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,840 you get involved in their slack chat, you get involved in their forum, 211 00:13:26,879 --> 00:13:31,159 and you start helping out ask answering questions. You can ask questions of 212 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,679 your own. You can just get involved in the discussion in that way. 213 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:39,879 They'll have seen your name, they will have gotten involved that way, and 214 00:13:39,919 --> 00:13:45,240 you can start to build relationships and rapport there and you can just let them 215 00:13:45,279 --> 00:13:46,720 know, hey, look I'm looking at moving out to the La area, 216 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:52,240 and I'm excited about some of the opportunities there and I just wanted to get 217 00:13:52,279 --> 00:13:56,039 involved in the local community before I made the move. Great. Perfect. 218 00:13:56,399 --> 00:14:01,080 And then if you can make a trip out there, find out who the 219 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:03,399 companies and the people are out there, so the people who organize the users 220 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:07,840 groups, people who are hiring, people who work for the companies you want 221 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:11,559 to work for, and just get in touch with as many of them as 222 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:13,919 you can and just say, hey, look, I'm coming out for a 223 00:14:13,919 --> 00:14:16,559 few days. It looks like you work for, work with, or know 224 00:14:16,639 --> 00:14:20,639 something about the company that I want to apply to. Can we go grab 225 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:28,320 lunch? And that way you get that personal connection to these folks, even 226 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,120 if it's just a short trip. A lot of times you can also say, 227 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,639 look, I've looked at your company. I really thought it would be 228 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:37,639 worthwhile to work there, and I was wondering if I could just come in 229 00:14:37,679 --> 00:14:41,480 and see the office, or if I could come in and meet some people 230 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:45,080 while I'm out there. And a lot of companies will let you do that, 231 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,919 I mean, unless they're just locked down as far as their security and 232 00:14:48,039 --> 00:14:52,879 concern and anything else. That will open up a lot of opportunities and then 233 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:58,440 I mentioned the meetup organizers. The meetup organizers usually know most of the people 234 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:01,519 in the area and most of the people who showing up to the meetups. 235 00:15:01,759 --> 00:15:05,080 They also usually have relationships with a lot of the companies that do hire people 236 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:09,519 out there, and so just getting to know them anyway will work to your 237 00:15:09,559 --> 00:15:11,879 benefit. And if you can make it out there when they're actually having the 238 00:15:11,919 --> 00:15:16,360 meetup, then you can take advantage of a lot of that work and you 239 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:20,840 can get that done. So, just to back up, what we've done 240 00:15:20,879 --> 00:15:24,320 is we've identified the kind of job we want, where it's located, and 241 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:28,639 all of that stuff. We've started to apply that criteria to some of the 242 00:15:28,679 --> 00:15:33,000 companies that we're looking at, so that we can start to get an idea 243 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:37,399 of what companies we want to apply to. Now, the next thing that 244 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:41,639 you want to do is build rapport with people who are trusted by the company 245 00:15:41,679 --> 00:15:46,960 or work for the company. And what that does is then when you go 246 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:50,799 and apply to the company, when you send them your resume, then you 247 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:54,399 have somebody who can actually do some of the follow up or advocacy for you. 248 00:15:54,919 --> 00:15:58,879 And you're not just some name on some paper in some pile of paper 249 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:04,039 that they're eventually going to get around to here's somebody that they're going you know, 250 00:16:04,039 --> 00:16:07,879 they're going to be asked about, and they're going to have some kind 251 00:16:07,919 --> 00:16:11,000 of social pressure applied to them about it, and that really really helps. 252 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:15,639 The other thing is is you can also then get the inside scoop. Right, 253 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:19,480 Oh, well they were trying to hire somebody, but we had a 254 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:23,679 big push for the trade show, and so they're putting it off for a 255 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,399 couple of weeks. Well, now you know, you know what, I 256 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:30,519 need to follow up in a couple of weeks, because following up now isn't 257 00:16:30,519 --> 00:16:33,559 going to do a whole lot of good. And they didn't call me back. 258 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,960 And the reason they didn't call me back was wasn't because they weren't interested. 259 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,879 It was because they got busy. And so you can figure out some 260 00:16:41,919 --> 00:16:48,559 of these timeframes. So the first week of the course, I'm talking about 261 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:55,320 just this general job search approach. The second week I would talk about resumes 262 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:59,159 and figuring out what this dream job is. And so we've talked about the 263 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:03,080 dream job, but what about resumes. I've sent out a few emails to 264 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:04,519 my mailing list, and if you want to get on the mailing list. 265 00:17:04,599 --> 00:17:08,000 Just go to devchat dot tv. If you click on any of the shows, 266 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,599 it'll get you on the list because you can sign up to get the 267 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:15,839 episodes. So for JavaScript Jabber, for example, just go to JavaScript jabber 268 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:19,839 dot com and then just sign up to get the top ten episodes. Anyway, 269 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:23,359 So I've been sending these emails out and a lot of people make a 270 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:27,799 lot of mistakes on the resume. I think a lot of people are under 271 00:17:27,799 --> 00:17:33,000 the impression that if they send a resume in that the resume is going to 272 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:37,440 get read. And that's just not the case generally when you get a bunch 273 00:17:37,519 --> 00:17:40,480 of resumes, especially if you get more than like twenty or thirty. So 274 00:17:40,559 --> 00:17:42,440 when I've done hiring, I've been in a position where I got like a 275 00:17:42,559 --> 00:17:47,160 handful and then it's easy, right, I do read all those. I've 276 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:48,480 also been in a position where I got more than one hundred. I didn't 277 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:52,559 read them all. In fact, I didn't even skim them all. I 278 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:56,279 just went through them until I had enough candidates to fill up my schedule for 279 00:17:56,359 --> 00:18:00,680 interviews and hope that one of them worked out. Right, So just keep 280 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:06,359 in mind that you want your resume to be something that they can immediately identify 281 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:08,240 somebody that they want to bring in for an interview. And so if you're 282 00:18:08,279 --> 00:18:11,079 putting a lot of extra stuff on there, it's not going to help you. 283 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:17,400 And if you're not formatting it so that it's easily skimmable, then that's 284 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:22,039 also not going to help you. So let me talk about some of the 285 00:18:22,039 --> 00:18:25,960 things that people do that they need to change. The first thing is is 286 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:30,240 that I've seen a number of resumes where essentially they have the name of the 287 00:18:30,319 --> 00:18:37,039 job that they worked, so software developer at ABC Company, right, and 288 00:18:37,079 --> 00:18:41,200 then underneath it's a paragraph that explains what they did. Well, paragraphs are 289 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:45,160 hard to skim, So what I tell people is to take the paragraph and 290 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,279 turn it into bullet points. So if you took the lead on some part 291 00:18:48,279 --> 00:18:52,160 of the project, put that in there. Took the lead on building out 292 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:56,319 Joe. I was going to say geocashing, which is kind of a cool 293 00:18:56,359 --> 00:19:02,920 thing but probably not something you're going to put in your resume. But geocoding 294 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,960 the coordinates for crime data. This is something I did in a past job. 295 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:11,319 I actually took the lead and moved us off of a service that we 296 00:19:11,319 --> 00:19:15,599 were using to do it. You know, you can put in there. 297 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:18,200 If there are specific technologies you know you want to highlight, then you can 298 00:19:18,279 --> 00:19:26,680 say you know that you implemented features in Angular or react or no JS or 299 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:30,799 whatever. If you're particularly good with a particular database, again you can say, 300 00:19:32,799 --> 00:19:37,400 you know, helped manage Mango, tib or whatever. What that does 301 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:38,839 is it makes it really easy for them to say, oh, okay, 302 00:19:40,799 --> 00:19:45,240 took the lead, so they'll actually take some initiative, get some of the 303 00:19:45,279 --> 00:19:49,079 work done that I need, and they have experience with the technology that I 304 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:52,920 need them to know, and so you can start to really kind of frame 305 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,960 that out for people. The other thing is is if you have more than 306 00:19:56,079 --> 00:20:03,039 three, four, five's pushing it bullet points per job, just keep in 307 00:20:03,079 --> 00:20:06,559 mind that they're probably not going to pay too much attention to more than the 308 00:20:06,559 --> 00:20:11,880 top three. So you want to have the big things that these companies care 309 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:15,960 about in your top three bullet points. And if you're applying to multiple companies 310 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:22,039 and they care about different things, then change the bullet points for the companies 311 00:20:22,079 --> 00:20:25,799 you're applying to. And I get a lot of people and they're like, 312 00:20:25,839 --> 00:20:29,000 can you do that? You know you don't just write your resume once. 313 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:32,559 No, you never write your resume. Just once you write your resume and 314 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:37,720 then you tailor it to each job, because essentially it's a sales letter to 315 00:20:37,799 --> 00:20:44,279 that job. And so if I pour concrete, for example, I'm going 316 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:47,720 to change up my sales letter depending on whether somebody wants me to pour in 317 00:20:47,799 --> 00:20:51,680 a walkway in their front yard, whether or not they want me to do 318 00:20:51,759 --> 00:20:55,920 their entire driveway, it's going to be a different sales letter. And so 319 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,680 it's the same thing here, right, They're all looking for something a little 320 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:03,000 bit differ, and so you need to put all that together. A few 321 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:04,839 things not to put on the resume. I see people put in there, 322 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:10,200 like the objective their objective, and their objective is to work for a terrific 323 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:11,759 company that does X, Y and Z and P and D and Q. 324 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:18,400 And it doesn't help. Of course, your objective is to get hired, 325 00:21:18,039 --> 00:21:21,759 and of course your objective is to work at a company that you're going to 326 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:26,160 like working for. So I mean, why bother, why take up the 327 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,839 space, use that space to put more information in. Another thing that people 328 00:21:29,839 --> 00:21:33,799 put on the resumes that really doesn't necessarily help is references. Now, if 329 00:21:33,839 --> 00:21:37,119 the company says that you have to have them on your resume. Put them 330 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,200 on your resume. But otherwise, if they need references, they'll ask for 331 00:21:40,279 --> 00:21:42,039 them, So have them ready, you know, have them jotted down in 332 00:21:42,079 --> 00:21:48,200 your pocket or on your iPhone or whatever. But otherwise don't put them on 333 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:52,440 the resume. It's a waste of space. And then you know you're going 334 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:59,640 to have your work experience. Some people ask me about volunteer experience and it's 335 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,960 kind of an iffy thing for me. Right, So this goes back to 336 00:22:03,039 --> 00:22:07,680 doing the research on the company and on the person involved in doing the hiring. 337 00:22:07,279 --> 00:22:11,160 So for example, if I found out that I was applying for a 338 00:22:11,279 --> 00:22:15,279 job and the person that I was going to be that was going to make 339 00:22:15,319 --> 00:22:22,039 this decision was somebody that really really really loved boy Scouts, like Boy Scouts 340 00:22:22,039 --> 00:22:25,799 of America Boy Scouts, Well, I'm fairly involved in the organization myself, 341 00:22:25,839 --> 00:22:29,839 so I will definitely put that on the resume. Or if they've always wanted 342 00:22:29,839 --> 00:22:32,359 to travel to Italy while I lived in Italy for two years, so I'll 343 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:36,640 put my volunteer experience in Italy for two years, right, you know, 344 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:38,559 So if I know some of these things that I can put them on and 345 00:22:38,599 --> 00:22:42,160 it makes it so that I'm there's something for them to want to talk to 346 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:47,000 me about. But you know, if you're just putting in you know, 347 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:52,319 I work on a soup kitchen, and I do these other things. If 348 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,119 you have space on your resume, put them on there. But otherwise, 349 00:22:55,200 --> 00:23:00,599 if there's something else other relevant work experience or open source projects or anything else 350 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:04,279 that you've worked on that is going to lend more credibility to your skills as 351 00:23:04,319 --> 00:23:11,200 opposed to your personality or I'm a good person, miss, I don't know 352 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:15,559 what the word is philanthropy, I guess put that stuff on there instead. 353 00:23:15,039 --> 00:23:19,960 And so your resume is essentially then just a breakdown of what you've accomplished and 354 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,480 what you've done. Now, some people are like brand new, right, 355 00:23:23,759 --> 00:23:26,839 they still have bubble wrap on them, you know, program umber bubble wrap. 356 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,759 They just came out of a boot camp, they just finished con Academy 357 00:23:30,839 --> 00:23:34,519 or something, or Code Academy or some of these other ones that are out 358 00:23:34,559 --> 00:23:38,240 there, and they don't have a whole lot of experience to put on there. 359 00:23:38,319 --> 00:23:42,680 Right, We'll put your past work experience anyway, especially if it's either 360 00:23:42,799 --> 00:23:47,079 in a relevant related area. So some people, for example, have been 361 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:52,160 nurses or accountants, or a friend of mine's going through a local boot camp 362 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:56,799 and he's actually been a marketer in the past. So if he was applying 363 00:23:56,839 --> 00:24:00,720 to marketing companies or email companies or you know, something like that, where 364 00:24:00,759 --> 00:24:07,200 he has relevant subject matter experience, even though he doesn't have relevant programming experience, 365 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,559 you definitely want that on there. I don't know if it's necessarily helpful 366 00:24:10,599 --> 00:24:12,599 to put McDonald's on there, but I mean, if you have nothing else, 367 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:18,440 put it on there, because at least it shows that you have had 368 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:22,599 a job, that you've worked in some area. But what you're going to 369 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,920 need to do is you're going to need to find some other way to show 370 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:30,319 them that you are a capable programmer. So one of the other things is 371 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,759 you can put under other experience. You can put like the Capstone project for 372 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,200 your boot camp, or you can put in your side projects. Right, 373 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:41,640 I built budgeting software that me and my mom use, or you know, 374 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,440 whatever whatever it is, you know, you put that in there. You 375 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,279 know, I built out a shopping cart, or I implemented you know, 376 00:24:48,319 --> 00:24:52,440 an open source system. You know when I set it up. You know, 377 00:24:52,519 --> 00:24:56,000 those kinds of things will help you out. Another thing you can do 378 00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:00,799 is go and contribute to documentation on open source projects. If if you can't 379 00:25:00,079 --> 00:25:07,319 either get in the door to contribute code, or you're not comfortable yet contributing 380 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:12,119 code, then you can go contribute to the documentation and they will usually not 381 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,039 always, but they will usually count you as a contributor to the project. 382 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,200 And so then you can put on there I'm a contributor to the following open 383 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:22,839 source projects. And if there are projects that these folks have heard about or 384 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,279 can go Google and be a little bit impressed by it, that really helps. 385 00:25:26,559 --> 00:25:30,039 And you don't have to have like mega programming chops to do it. 386 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,440 So a lot of those things will fill fill out your resume as well. 387 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:40,319 One other thing to put in there is I mentioned McDonald's may or may not 388 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:42,279 help you. One other thing that will help you is if you've moved up 389 00:25:42,319 --> 00:25:47,160 within McDonald's right. So, and I'm using McDonald's as an example just because 390 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:52,400 it's a fast food situation where you know, people kind of think of it 391 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,920 as the bottom of the barrel job, right or your first job or whatever. 392 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,000 You know, I've seen subway on people's resumes and stuff before. But 393 00:25:59,039 --> 00:26:03,839 if you can show that you move up from say cashier to assystem manager or 394 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,000 a shift manager or something like that, you know, or head of the 395 00:26:07,079 --> 00:26:11,039 kitchen back end kitchen staff. It's been a long time since I worked at 396 00:26:11,079 --> 00:26:14,480 McDonald's, I don't remember what all the positions are called. But if you 397 00:26:14,519 --> 00:26:17,319 can put any of that in there, that also helps because it shows, 398 00:26:17,599 --> 00:26:19,319 you know what, this person worked there for a few months and they figured 399 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,160 out that they could count on them to be a leader in the organization. 400 00:26:22,759 --> 00:26:26,759 Leadership always looks good on a resume, so any of that will help as 401 00:26:26,799 --> 00:26:30,880 well, and maybe some of your volunteer experience will play to that as well. 402 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:33,480 But anyway, the more of that that you can put in there, 403 00:26:33,519 --> 00:26:37,200 it gives them an idea that, you know what, they may not be 404 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:42,839 an expert coder, but they're responsible, resourceful enough person to pull the trigger 405 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:48,319 on a lot of this stuff. So then what we do is we look 406 00:26:48,319 --> 00:26:51,960 at the resume. But there's another piece to this, and this is a 407 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:56,960 piece that a lot of people forget and depending on your experience and who you 408 00:26:56,079 --> 00:26:59,920 know. Because the last few jobs that I got that were full time jobs, 409 00:27:00,559 --> 00:27:02,880 I got them through people I knew, and so I didn't need a 410 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,079 cover letter but a lot of people forget to put the cover letter on. 411 00:27:06,599 --> 00:27:08,559 And the cover letter is the rest of it. Right, So your resume 412 00:27:08,759 --> 00:27:11,720 is, here's what I've done, Here's what I've worked on, Here's where 413 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,599 I've volunteered, you know, all that kind of stuff, But it doesn't 414 00:27:15,599 --> 00:27:19,599 really tell them what kind of person you are. And most companies, when 415 00:27:19,599 --> 00:27:23,839 I talk to hiring managers, they basically say that the kind of person somebody 416 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:30,640 is accounts for more than their technical chops. Right, as long as they 417 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,920 can contribute in a meaningful way, you know, even if they're not the 418 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,799 top notch developer, if they'll learn quickly and they're a pleasure to work with, 419 00:27:38,559 --> 00:27:44,119 they'll hire that person above the technical genius pretty much every time, because 420 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:48,559 nobody wants to work with the real, big fat jerk, even if they 421 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:53,680 are just amazing coders. And the reason is is because everybody else's code has 422 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,119 to touch theirs, and it's no fun to talk to somebody who's going to 423 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,720 talk down to you or treat you poorly. And so what you do is 424 00:28:00,759 --> 00:28:04,279 you put in your cover letter the kinds of things that you can't really put 425 00:28:04,279 --> 00:28:07,319 in the resume, Like you can't really put in the resume, I'm a 426 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:11,480 nice person, or I get along well with other people. You can put 427 00:28:11,519 --> 00:28:15,000 in things that kind of indicate that, you know, worked with three other 428 00:28:15,079 --> 00:28:21,559 developers to pull together a brown bag lunch program or something like that. Right 429 00:28:21,599 --> 00:28:23,599 where it's hey, look, I wanted to do some learning. I brought 430 00:28:23,599 --> 00:28:26,599 some other people together. I took the lead on this stuff. You know, 431 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,920 they didn't want to kill me at the end of it. So you 432 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,279 know, everything's good. But if you put something together, if you put 433 00:28:34,319 --> 00:28:37,880 something like that in the cover letter, then what you essentially are telling them 434 00:28:38,039 --> 00:28:41,480 is a here's why I want to work with your company. So this goes 435 00:28:41,519 --> 00:28:45,640 back to that dream job profile that we talked about a minute ago. You 436 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,759 know what, as I thought about doing this job search, I realized that 437 00:28:48,799 --> 00:28:55,359 I wanted to work at a company that XYZ and I found that ABC Company 438 00:28:55,839 --> 00:29:00,319 does X and Y, and you're well on your way to Z and so 439 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,240 I have felt, you know, I'm excited for the opportunities that I have 440 00:29:03,319 --> 00:29:06,759 to come work for your company, et cetera, et cetera. Right, 441 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,160 and then the next thing you do is you can say, from what I 442 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:15,240 can tell, it appears the ABC company hires people with the following qualities, 443 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:21,319 and I feel I exemplify those and that I have done things that exhibit that 444 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:23,519 in the following ways. And so then you can talk about some of the 445 00:29:23,559 --> 00:29:26,279 initiatives that you've been a part of and some of the things that you really 446 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,039 like and you know, and it doesn't have to be in the programming field 447 00:29:30,079 --> 00:29:36,480 at all, but then you can talk about church service or scouting service, 448 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,480 or you know, anything else you're involved in toast Masters, right, and 449 00:29:40,519 --> 00:29:45,880 you can say, it looks like communication is key to this organization, and 450 00:29:45,759 --> 00:29:49,400 you know it's important to me as well. I have my competent communicator from 451 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,559 toast Masters. You know, whatever you're going to put in there, But 452 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,279 what it does is it gives you that opportunity to say, you know, 453 00:29:55,319 --> 00:29:59,359 I'm responsible, or I'm a good communicator, or I work well with others, 454 00:29:59,519 --> 00:30:03,160 or I'm a a good leader, or whatever those qualities are that you 455 00:30:03,319 --> 00:30:07,880 want to sort of highlight. You put those into the cover letter, and 456 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,599 what that does is it gives them the opportunity then to read through it and 457 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:14,920 say, this is the experience that this person has, this is what we 458 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,920 would be buying essentially, and that's on the resume and then this is the 459 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:22,720 kind of person that we're looking at hiring, and these are the qualities that 460 00:30:22,759 --> 00:30:27,400 we would be paying them to have. And so it all pays off just 461 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:32,039 because you're able to give them that full picture and they can say this is 462 00:30:32,039 --> 00:30:37,279 the kind of person I want to work with. Their resume isn't super deep, 463 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:41,559 but you know what, I like them enough to at least bring them 464 00:30:41,559 --> 00:30:44,559 in and see what they've got, right, So then you could show up 465 00:30:44,599 --> 00:30:52,200 and you can do the interviewing practices and things like that and at least get 466 00:30:52,279 --> 00:30:55,599 some notice that way. And I know people who have gotten interviews off of 467 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,880 their cover letter even though they didn't have a whole lot in the resume that 468 00:30:59,039 --> 00:31:03,599 was super relevant the company. So yeah, just keep that in mind. 469 00:31:03,759 --> 00:31:10,400 That is definitely some movement there. So that's kind of the first two weeks 470 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:14,200 that we dive into there, and I give a lot more examples and we 471 00:31:14,279 --> 00:31:18,079 do some resumic critiques and things like that. But yeah, so then the 472 00:31:18,119 --> 00:31:22,599 next part is just researching the companies, right, And we talked about LinkedIn, 473 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,039 we talked about meetups, and the two weeks after that, the first 474 00:31:26,079 --> 00:31:27,759 two weeks in December, we're going to be talking about getting noticed anyway, 475 00:31:29,279 --> 00:31:32,240 and so all of these things kind of go together. It's getting information about 476 00:31:32,279 --> 00:31:36,079 the company that the company puts out there through social media, through LinkedIn, 477 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:40,000 through Glassdoor, through whatever else, as well as people who have worked with 478 00:31:40,039 --> 00:31:45,000 them. Right. Glassdoor allows people to anonymously post their experience working for a 479 00:31:45,039 --> 00:31:51,160 company, so you can see if somebody's had problems working at that company, 480 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,480 because again it's anonymous, you can get an idea what the salaries are at 481 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:57,920 the company looking at that. You can look at some of the people in 482 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,599 the company by going to LinkedIn, looking at their page and then clicking through 483 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:06,720 to where people are actually at right, you can go look at the profiles 484 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,839 of their employees and get an idea of what's going on there. You can 485 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:14,440 also then in a lot of cases reach out to them right so you can 486 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:16,960 send them a connection request, or if you have a premium account, you 487 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:21,680 can send them an in mail in LinkedIn. The other thing is is that 488 00:32:22,119 --> 00:32:24,240 in some cases it's really not that hard to figure out what somebody's email address 489 00:32:24,319 --> 00:32:28,960 is, or you can also see if you're connected to somebody that they're connected 490 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:30,720 to, and then see if you can make a connection that way, and 491 00:32:30,759 --> 00:32:35,319 so you email your friend and you say, Hi, friend, I'm looking 492 00:32:35,359 --> 00:32:38,440 into getting hired at ABC Company. And I see that you're connected with Joe 493 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:43,680 Blow who works over at ABC Company, and so I'm wondering if there's any 494 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:45,799 way that you can introduce us so I can ask them a few questions. 495 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:51,640 And then you go out and get noticed. And there are a lot of 496 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:55,920 ways to get noticed. So I've kind of broken this down into two areas. 497 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:04,039 One is getting noticed from the outside essentially, so you're not interacting directly 498 00:33:04,319 --> 00:33:08,880 with the company and you're not really becoming an insider on the company. You're 499 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:14,039 just getting to know the people that are making the decisions in the company. 500 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,240 So one of those ways is by going to users groups. And I tell 501 00:33:17,279 --> 00:33:20,359 people to do this all the time. So you go to the users group 502 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,640 and you get involved there, and a lot of times you can tell from 503 00:33:23,799 --> 00:33:29,799 LinkedIn or Twitter or somebody else's profile, you know what they're tweeting about. 504 00:33:29,839 --> 00:33:32,480 Hey, you know they they organize this meetup or they go to this meetup 505 00:33:32,519 --> 00:33:37,160 every month. Right, Hey, I'm off to the Utah Ruby users group 506 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,960 or the Utah JavaScript meetup and hey, you know or that was a great 507 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,519 talk by so and so at the meetup, and so you can kind of 508 00:33:44,519 --> 00:33:46,240 get an idea, Oh, if I want to meet this person, I'm 509 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:50,200 going to go over there and meet them. Or you can also just show 510 00:33:50,279 --> 00:33:53,680 up and talk to people who are talking about relevant stuff to what you want 511 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:58,839 to work on, and then you can kind of oh, so where do 512 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,359 you work, what do you do and get an idea, Oh, well, 513 00:34:01,359 --> 00:34:06,319 they work for I keep saying ABC company, but they work for DF 514 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,760 company. I considered them, so I'm going to talk to them and find 515 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:14,880 out if DEF company matches up with what I think I want, and then 516 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,840 start talking to them about what it takes to get hired. The other end 517 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:22,199 of this is getting noticed from the inside. So I mentioned meetups, but 518 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:23,880 there are all kinds of other ways you can do this. You know, 519 00:34:24,079 --> 00:34:29,320 the forums and chats also help. Speaking at conferences another way to do this. 520 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:34,119 I go into a lot more detail about these, but you know, 521 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,159 I only have an hour, so I'm going to try and move on, 522 00:34:36,199 --> 00:34:38,960 because there's a lot more to this than just these things. Getting noticed from 523 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:45,960 the inside usually consists of a little bit more sort of the things that they 524 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,480 put out there in public. So if they have an API. You know, 525 00:34:49,519 --> 00:34:52,679 you can write a library around their API that makes it easy to connect 526 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:57,519 to things from no Jazz or from Angular or from something else. You can 527 00:34:57,559 --> 00:35:00,639 also if they have some sort of plugin system. So the example that I 528 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:05,039 use in a lot of these is in Structure. And Instructure is a company 529 00:35:05,039 --> 00:35:08,400 that's based out of Salt Lake City and they have a product called Canvas, 530 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:14,519 and Canvas is a learning management system that colleges and other folks use to manage 531 00:35:14,519 --> 00:35:19,400 their courses. So they have a plugin system and it sucks, but it's 532 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,320 there, right, And so if you wanted to get hired and Instructure, 533 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:28,679 one of the things you could conceivably do is actually right plug in for Instructure 534 00:35:28,679 --> 00:35:30,920 Canvas. Now, it's not their fault that their plugin system sucks, because 535 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:37,159 they went with a standard system that other open source learning management systems used to 536 00:35:37,159 --> 00:35:40,559 do plug in, So it's not ideal, but it works, right. 537 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:45,440 They also have APIs that are available for some of the things there, So 538 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:50,519 you know, if you built some kind of automation system or payment system that 539 00:35:50,639 --> 00:35:54,400 hooked into Instructure Canvas, you know, you could do that, and then 540 00:35:54,639 --> 00:35:59,159 you can basically present to the company and say, hey, look, I 541 00:35:59,199 --> 00:36:01,960 really like your and I wrote this plug in, or I really like your 542 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:06,920 product, and I wrote this API integration, or I really like your product, 543 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,480 and so I wrote this add on software that connects to it somehow. 544 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:14,800 And so by doing that, you can sort of become an insider, because 545 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,639 then what you're doing is you're talking to their staff members about what you've built, 546 00:36:19,119 --> 00:36:22,800 not necessarily because you're talking to them about getting a job, because they're 547 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:27,480 almost always interested in talking to people who are building software against their stuff, 548 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:32,320 and they're almost always interested in the ecosystem around their stuff, And so by 549 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:37,400 opening that up and opening those doors, you can sort of become an insider 550 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:43,320 another way. Instructure also puts on in Structure Con, which is a conference 551 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,599 based around their products. A lot of other companies do this. Twilio does 552 00:36:46,639 --> 00:36:52,440 this, New Relic does this, Google does it Google Io, Amazon does 553 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:57,039 it with Reinvent. Microsoft has a handful of conferences that they put on, 554 00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,480 so you kind of get the idea, right, I went to vm World. 555 00:36:59,559 --> 00:37:04,320 VMware puts on a conference, and you kind of get the insider status 556 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:09,039 that way too. One that kind of blends some of this is blogging and 557 00:37:09,079 --> 00:37:15,400 podcasting. So if you do a guest post from somebody from the company. 558 00:37:15,599 --> 00:37:19,280 You're kind of bridging that because you know, you're putting out content about their 559 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:23,239 stuff, which is outsider stuff, but you're also bringing in their their staff 560 00:37:23,559 --> 00:37:29,679 to write blog posts, so that's insider stuff. Having their staff members come 561 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,559 onto your podcast is insider stuff. So you're kind of getting the idea right. 562 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:37,440 I mean, anything you can do to interact with them, it really 563 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,159 puts you on their game. And then if somebody in the company knows who 564 00:37:39,199 --> 00:37:44,519 you are, then when you actually do want to apply, you can reach 565 00:37:44,559 --> 00:37:45,920 out to them and say, hey, look I'm looking for a job, 566 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:51,880 or hey, look i'd really like to work for def company. And you 567 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:53,480 know, it looks like you're doing a lot of interesting stuff there. I've 568 00:37:53,519 --> 00:37:58,800 had so and so and such and such on the podcast, and you reach 569 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:00,920 out to so and so and so and such as well let them know you're 570 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:05,800 applying, and then you know your set right because then they can say, 571 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,920 okay, well I'll make sure that my boss sees it, or you know, 572 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,679 oh, I'll check in in a little bit. And then you follow 573 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:14,360 up with them and you're like, hey, you know, I sent in 574 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,000 my resume. A couple of weeks ago and I never heard back. You 575 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,440 know, I was just wondering what the deal is. And you would be 576 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:23,679 surprised at how many companies will call you back because you followed up. You 577 00:38:23,679 --> 00:38:27,480 know, they got busy. It wasn't because there was something wrong with your 578 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,719 resume. They just got busy. And so by having somebody bring it front 579 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:35,960 and center, you can get that done. Of course, all of this 580 00:38:36,119 --> 00:38:39,159 just leads up to getting the interview right. Once you go in for the 581 00:38:39,199 --> 00:38:45,199 interview, you shake hands and talk to somebody face to face, it kind 582 00:38:45,199 --> 00:38:47,159 of is a different story, and so you show up. I mean I 583 00:38:47,199 --> 00:38:52,639 could spend hours talking about coding interviews, and a lot of companies do it 584 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:57,400 differently, but essentially, what you want to come across as is again somebody 585 00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:01,000 who can do the work and somebody who they would like to work with. 586 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:05,599 And so if you can come across as both of those things, and usually 587 00:39:05,639 --> 00:39:13,119 what this boils down to is being confident, just being yourself and really trying 588 00:39:13,159 --> 00:39:15,280 to enjoy getting to know the person who's interviewing you. Yeah, a lot 589 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,960 of that works out. The other thing to keep in mind too, is, 590 00:39:19,079 --> 00:39:22,760 especially for new people, they feel like they really have to demonstrate that 591 00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:27,679 they know a lot of stuff, and it turns out that you really don't 592 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:31,880 have to do that. So demonstrating you know a lot of stuff, sometimes 593 00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:37,280 it helps, and sometimes what it winds up doing is you'll talk about something 594 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:42,000 that you don't really know about and your interviewer does. And if you try 595 00:39:42,079 --> 00:39:44,960 and bs your way through an interview, in a lot of cases, it'll 596 00:39:45,039 --> 00:39:46,679 hurt you more than it helps you. And so you're much better off just 597 00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:52,199 letting them know where you're at. And then what happens is is I've seen 598 00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,760 a few companies they hired a whole bunch of people who were qualified for what 599 00:39:55,800 --> 00:40:00,000 they were looking for, and they hired and they interviewed a bunch of peop 600 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:05,000 people who weren't quite qualified for what they were looking for. And what they 601 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,920 wound up doing is they wound up hiring one of the people that weren't wasn't 602 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:12,280 quite qualified. And the reason is is because all of the qualified people wanted 603 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:17,039 too much money or just didn't quite have what they were looking for, and 604 00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:22,519 the person who didn't quite have all of the experience they wanted, it turned 605 00:40:22,559 --> 00:40:24,480 out that they felt like they could train them in a reasonable amount of time 606 00:40:24,519 --> 00:40:30,000 and make it work. So anyway, just something to think about you. 607 00:40:30,199 --> 00:40:34,840 So just be yourself, let them buy what they're buying, and hire what 608 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:38,519 they're hiring, and it'll all work out once you get through the interview. 609 00:40:38,599 --> 00:40:43,440 And there are all kinds of coding exercises. You'll probably hear nightmare stories about 610 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:45,280 coding on a whiteboard and stuff like that. Some companies do it, some 611 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:50,639 companies don't. Some of this information you can get off of glass door or 612 00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,159 LinkedIn, and some of it you just won't know until your show, So 613 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:59,559 just keep that in mind as well. But anyway, it's kind of where 614 00:40:59,559 --> 00:41:02,519 things are at, So find out as much as you can before the interview. 615 00:41:02,639 --> 00:41:09,119 Go in prepared, be yourself, be confident, and hopefully you get 616 00:41:09,159 --> 00:41:14,239 hired once you get Once that's all done, you get a job offer. 617 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:17,400 Now a lot of people will just take the job offer. It's what I 618 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:22,559 wanted. I don't want to rock the boat. Most companies actually will expect 619 00:41:22,599 --> 00:41:27,119 you to try and negotiate, and so just keep that in mind. There's 620 00:41:27,119 --> 00:41:31,280 a terrific book by Josh Dudy called I don't remember exactly what it is. 621 00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:35,079 I'll put a link to it in the show. Notes, but he talks 622 00:41:35,119 --> 00:41:39,960 about oh, it's expert salary negotiation and so yeah, so it's negotiating the 623 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:45,320 salary, right, and so you try and maximize your salary, maybe get 624 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,280 a few more days time off. You know, you can make trade offs 625 00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:51,159 too, right, So maybe you don't care as much about the health benefits 626 00:41:51,159 --> 00:41:55,400 because you're young or healthy or whatever. Right, and just keep that in 627 00:41:55,400 --> 00:42:00,159 mind, right, that you can negotiate. So if you're willing to give 628 00:42:00,199 --> 00:42:01,079 up a little bit of salary to get a little more time off for a 629 00:42:01,159 --> 00:42:05,079 little more flexibility or things like that, you know you can do that as 630 00:42:05,079 --> 00:42:07,239 well. And then the final thing is is that a lot of people are 631 00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:12,039 also concerned. Okay, well, what if I don't have all the qualifications 632 00:42:12,039 --> 00:42:15,079 for the company I want to work for? And so then we dig into 633 00:42:15,079 --> 00:42:16,960 how to become a better programmer? What should I be learning, how do 634 00:42:17,039 --> 00:42:20,760 I learn it, how do I demonstrate that I know it? Et cetera, 635 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:22,719 et cetera, And we dig into all that stuff too. So I 636 00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:27,079 mean that's basically I mean I didn't just give you a rundown of the course. 637 00:42:27,119 --> 00:42:30,559 I feel like I really gave you some quality tips and tricks and there's 638 00:42:30,599 --> 00:42:34,360 a ton more that I've got. I just don't have time to go into 639 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:38,079 for this kind of a thing. So if you're interested in it once again, 640 00:42:38,119 --> 00:42:40,039 you know, I'll just put a link in the show notes. But 641 00:42:40,079 --> 00:42:45,519 it's devchat, dot tv, slash get a coder job, full access and 642 00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:49,760 you'll hit a landing page and you can just scroll down and see what all 643 00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:54,159 the details are. And yeah, anyway, so I'm gonna go ahead and 644 00:42:54,159 --> 00:43:00,559 wrap this up. You know what, I should do some picks, but 645 00:43:00,679 --> 00:43:02,639 I've just been talking a lot and i don't know that I'm really gonna do 646 00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:07,239 picks today. So yeah, go check that out. Let me know if 647 00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:13,440 you have any questions, because I'm happy to answer them, and yeah, 648 00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:14,519 we'll catch you all next week.