WWE Podcast Family, Welcome to a special edition episode of Wrestle Magic here on
the w w E Podcast, where we are local, we are stateside,
and we are international. It's me, It's me, It's Rocky T and
I'm about to hit it out of the park with the Louisville Slugger once again,
the Captain Michael Gross. This is a Wrestle Magic first an interview.
Not only will this episode be good, not only will this episode be considered
one of the best, but it will simply be just incredible. We have
a living wrestling legend here with today. He is a hardcore icon. He
is an ECW heavyweight champion. My goal. Please introduce our guest of honor.
Ladies and gentlemen, let me talk to you about the first time I
ever set eyes on this man. It was on the four o'clock East ESPN
time slot. It was for the USWA. I saw this skinny guy reminded
me of myself, to be honest with you, because I weigh a buck
forty soaken what and I watched what he could do, and I watched how
he could perform, and I said, man, this guy is really really
great. And throughout his career I followed him from territory to territory for what
he was doing wrestling wise, through magazines and dirt sheets and all the stuff
from the old days, because that's how we did it before the internet.
And it was amazing and it was fun. And then one day he reinvented
his character and it blew my socks off and it blew my mind. So
without further ado, I want to introduce everybody to our new friend of the
show, a man that I wanted to be at one point in the nineties,
a man that I think has had a great wrestling career, an underrated
wrestling career, and we're going to get to know today all about his career.
And that is the one at only mister just incredible. How you doing
justin I'm doing great, guys, Thank you so much for having me.
This is really fun. This is an awesome opportunity, and I'm grateful to
you guys. I'm just happy to be here man, looking forward to the
conversation. That's awesome And hopefully maybe in the future, We've got some other
shows lined up for our personal part of the channel, Wrestle Magic, but
maybe Matt with our actual whole program, our whole channel, WWE podcast dot
com could use you in the future, and we could talk more about that
sometime off camera now that we've gotten to know each other a little bit better.
So there's something I want to ask about you, and maybe Rocky you
could lead it, but if you don't mind, I might ask that first
question. Absolutely take it on, all right? So what was that match?
What was that wrestler? Who was it that made you say, I'm
a ways up a pair of boots? Um? It had to be.
I mean I was. I was always a wrestling fan. I think I
started to get the bug, the wrestling bug with the startup Holcimnia. Really.
I was born and raised in Waterbury, Connecticut, and we used to
get Channel wwwour Channel nine, which was the big New York City station that
kind of migrated to Connecticut, and I remember watching I remember the day,
I still believe it or not, I still had We had two TVs back
then in the household. I was maybe eight or nine. I don't know
how old. I know as a kid we had a big color TV in
the living room and I had an old black and white TV, which I
know many people don't even know what that is, but I had a black
with the rabbit ears in my room and I watched Hulk Hogan pin the iron
cheek to start his iconic WF heavyweight title ring on Saturday morning, and that's
what gotten loving wrestling. But uh, forward to you know, fast forward
in six seven years after that, I saw Ricky the Dragon Steamboat and Rick
Flair on wtvs UM and uh, you know, and their feud and Ricky
steam Would obviously winning the world title from Rick Flair. Got to see them
alive on that nineteen eighty nine tour when they came to New Haven, Connecticut
on the House show run, and that's just that's what really cemented me as
like, yo, I could do this, um I you know, I
wanted to do this. It was just everything that was right with the world
was that, you know, it just it seemed it was just so natural,
so perfect. It just was everything I wanted in life. And that
was a storytelling in the ring of a bad guy like Rick Flair and a
baby face like Ricky Steamboat and the moves that they performed the ring to get
us to feel that way. So I saw the art form, I saw
the beauty of it, and there was no turning back since that stuff,
Yeah, that was it. Wow. Well, like me and most fans,
I assume we know you from ECW and your time in WWE. But
one of the points of this podcast is to go beyond what we think we
know, So we would like to go beyond those days, which I widely
starts with before those days. So we wanted to start from the beginning of
your career, which would be training. How did you end up training with
stut Heart and Keith Heart and land Storm. Sure, I was, you
know again, I was always a huge fan. And after I graduated high
school in nineteen ninety one. I graduated Holy Cross High School in Waterbury,
Connecticut in nineteen ninety one. And the whole point of me going to Catholic
high school, and it was a it was predominantly you know, a college
prep ready school. You know, my parents had to pay out a pocket
for me to go there, you know, just wanting the best for me,
you know, ship like that. And after high school I was like,
well, I you know, I really didn't know what I wanted to
do. So I took a year off after I had graduated, and like
a lot of kids, I just got a small job I was working at
a grocery store here in the Northeast, a very popular one. But you
know, I think it was like stopping the shop. I don't know if
anybody's familiar with it, but I was just, yeah, I was just
a bag boy, you know, just you know, picking up carts and
behind the parking lot, you know, bagging groceries. But on my fifteen
twenty minute break back then we had wrestling magazines, right, that was like
the big deal for fans who really loved the business. And so, you
know, in my break I would get a Coca cola and a bag of
chips or whatever, and I'd go read magazines for the fifteen twenty minutes I
had. And I remember going to the back of one of these magazines and
I gotta remember, this is pre internet, you know, there's no information.
Wrestling was a little bit capabe still, you know. And it was
a big article, not an article, It's a big one page out on
the very back of the magazine. It said, dare to be Great,
you know, a Heart Brothers training camp, and it just had this all
this. You know, if you want to be a wrestler, if you
dream to be great, you know, here's the phone number, here's the
address. Give us, you know, give us a call, write us
a letter, et cetera. So I actually, uh, you know,
got very excited, got the number down, you know, got the whole
thing. I think I ripped it out of the magazine, to be honest,
and I called and I got to talk to Bruce Hartum, you know,
and he's like, well, kid, you know, we run a
camp every summer for eight weeks. You know, you got to come on
over to Calgary and you trained for eight weeks and at the end, if
you, you know, if you could finish this camp, whatever, you'll
you know, you will be trained to be a pro wrestler. And back
then it was very different than it is today. So I mean I literally,
you know, begged my family. I think my mom helped me take
out a personal loan to go out to Calgary to train and uh and get
a flight and everything. We coordinated everything, and summer of nineteen ninety two,
you know, there I was getting on a plane to go to Calgary
all you know. But but the thing about going to Calgary, Alberta,
Canada, is I live in Connecticut, which is like on the map.
Let's just say New York City, an hour from New York City all the
way across to the Pacific Northwest, pretty much across the world in my opinion,
you know, because I was a kid, I'd never traveled really before
to go to Calgary to wrestling school, not known anybody, really taking a
chance, you know what I mean, with no money in my pocket,
not help any right, you know, and because you just thought, well,
you know, in our idea, it was like, well they're taking
this money, they'll take care of our boy, you know what I mean.
We were so naive it's not really understanding what this all was in telling.
So I mean I literally got there and we got uh, we got
thrust into this insane world of of pro wrestling right from the start. I
mean, it was it was crash. It was crude. I remember we
stayed and not just me, but the rest of the class, which all
which ended up being eight altogether, but by the end of it, only
two ended up graduating, and which is myself and this other gentleman out of
Toronto, Ontario, Canada named Brett Farrell who still wrestles once in a while
but never really made it big. And yeah, and it was it was
just wild. I was staying above a strip club, uh, you know,
outside of Calgary, in some small, little dingy city like literary classy.
I was literally sleeping on a mattress in some little leg Dare I say
crack house? I mean seriously, you know where strippers would stay like after
they were done with their sets, before they moved on to the next city,
you know, because it was one of those places where you know,
girls would travel through and then go on to the next place. So I
was literally staying at some like shack um. You know. All I had
was you know, a mattress, my food, you know, whatever little
perishables I had. We had a grocery store slash gasoline station where you can
get like chif boy r D or a canned soup. You know. That
was like a big deal. There was no McDonald's. There was no because
we're literally in the middle of nowhere, you know, because it's not Calgary
is a huge city, but we're thirty forty minutes away from Calgary with no
no, no, nothing. So it was just like, you know,
talk about welcome to reality, you know what I mean. And but again
that was that was part of what I could, you know, consider paying
your dues, you know what I mean. So was you being one of
the two people who graduated from your fast, It was that satisfying enough or
more because you were one of the only two out of your fast? Or
was it a fine enough just knowing that you made it out of training in
Caregary over there with the hearts. It was just the fact that imased I
mean, it was so wild, dude. I mean, I had so
much. I didn't know what to expect. I didn't understand. You gotta
understand something when you see the business. And again, now everybody knows kind
of the financials. People know what you have to do to make it in
the business. They you know, you hear all this guy's getting X amount
of money, guarantee whatever, blah blah blah. Back then, you literally
knew nothing about nobody. There was none of that was getting exposed. I
was literally just an ant in a huge world of guys and gals trying to
make it. Nobody had any idea where I was. It was actually the
most dangerous thing my parents would have ever could ever imagine letting me do.
I mean, I could have died out there. Nobody would have ever known
I was literally no cell phones, no numbers to call. I was calling
like America on pay phones, you know, collect calls, like trying to
get my mom and dad. Like there was like I was literally out there
in the wild, you know what I mean, just again trying to make
it. It was just it's it's something I would have never you know it,
known what I know today, I would have never taken those risks or
chances. I just had this weird idea and believed that if I worked hard,
it would work for me, and somehow, by the grace of God
or whatever the hell it is. You know, I'm not very religious,
but by whatever it is, I made it. And I got very fortunate
because it was very rough, man. I mean, you know it was
there was no plans that, there was no map laid out for anybody to
really make it in this world, you know, and you get to learn
it the hard way because I really had no idea how it was. You
know, as a kid going into it, I had no idea that that's
what I was signing up for. You know, may I sidebar for a
second, So I got to know what was the scariest moment, the fact
that you actually made it to one of the two that graduated, or the
fact that the next day, now your career starts, and what do you
do, because I problem, I'm gonna guess that there was no product placement
with your with you know, it's not like NXT where you go up to
w W. You're Ohio Valley with their old ties and things like that.
So it's like, okay, this is the days before agents, except for
your mega stars like Hogan Flair. You know, Lawlor could handle his own
things. He owned the territory and obviously some of the territories dying because you
and I are that old, and Rocky's right on our coattails, and so
we got to see a lot of that. So I want to know,
and unless I'm getting in the way of any questions that Rocky has for our
listeners, what was that that moment when you're like, okay, I have
to leave Calgary, now what do I do? You really had no there
was nothing for you. I mean I remember having my first ten matches.
They started a new promotion out there called Rocky Mountain Pro Wrestling. I had
not you know, I not made any money at all, you know,
basically spending money everywhere I can I was starving. I remember going up there
two hundred and twenty five pounds, gassed up all, you know, jacked
up a steroided up, you know, as nineteen years old, looked great,
And a couple of months later, I'm like one hundred and eighty pounds.
I dropped forty pounds almost immediately because of now nutrition. And I remember
the guy I was staying with was one of the referees, and I was
literally stealing a dollar fifty a day from him Canadian, mind you, not
even you as Canadian, stealing a dollar fifty Canadian out of his change jar
at that time to buy a gallon of chocolate milk, and that would be
the only I bought milk because I knew that would be the only nutrients I
can get my ProTeam, some kind of vitamins and mineral you know what I'm
saying, And that's all I'll have for the day, because I you know,
I've read a lot of wrestling books, and like Rocky, you can
interjected any time. A lot of wrestlers they talk about traveling in a van,
eight people to a van, no heater in the van. Everybody,
you know, if you if you're not in the driver passenger seat. You're
all covered in blankets in the back hoping that you know, you get the
twenty dollars payoff to whatever city you go to, and that's dedication to your
craft and any of these You and I both understand the businesses that were currently
in us, mister Credible, and it's we get sometimes these entitled people who
don't understand what we went through. And I never went through it like you.
But I grew up very underprivileged, not severely, but enough to where
you know, I hated being poor, cold and hungry, and I never
wanted to live my life like that. And you're here, you are living
out your dream. Where were the doubts? When did the doubts come before
you started to see something? Um? I was so stupid that I almost
didn't. I didn't really see any of them. I just maybe it was
I was just so innocent and I wanted it so badly that I never saw
the bad. Um. I don't know what it was. Maybe I guess
because I knew my parents. You know, my parents weren't well off by
any means, and I was lying to them left and right about how I
was doing. But you know, I remember finally at one time having to
cave in and ask me my dad to Western Union me fifty dollars because I
just had cracked and I needed, you know, some money to eat,
you know. And I was like, you know, and it was like,
son, why didn't you ask me beforehand? You know? I was
just so proud and I wanted you to feel you know, I wanted you
to be proud of me. I didn't want to have to ask you for
anything, you know. And I remember after sent me the money, I
went to McDonald's and I had like a you know, like a quarter pound
of the cheese and fries and coke and it was like cracked. I'm not
trying to I'm just saying me cracks was, and you know, and it
was just like so amazing to eat that. It was just like wow,
real food. I did never wanted to put that on them, you know
what I mean. I just wanted to always portray it as I'm doing.
Okay, I'm well, I'm succeeding in this venture, you know what I'm
saying. Like, I didn't want to to kind of break their hearts because
they would have given me anything. They would have gone to Caligary and picked
me up. But I asked, do you know what I mean? Yeah,
but everybody want to do that to them. I wanted to succeed on
my own, you know. And that was me at nineteen. You know,
I just I hit balls that I just don't have today. I wish
I still had those balls. Yeah, you know, because you do a
lot of you know, when you're when you're in that mindset of trying to
get that's unfortunately that's what it takes. But yeah, I was. I
was just so ready to go at that time. It was a great time,
you know. At the end of the day. Yeah, everybody who's
out trying to follow a dream will prove something, you know, wants to
let the family know that they're doing it on their own and they're okay.
So you're definitely not the first person or the last persons light of their parents
about how well off they are un pursuing their dreams. But on your way
out of training and you say you didn't Calgary was much of a plan or
much of anything. Did you leave with the ring name? And how did
how did the just incredible name come to being? Oh? Wow, well
that's well, I didn't have a ring name I did P J. Walker
in Calgary. It was my first match, and this is this is correct
because it was in my book and I remember just going through all the papers
and everything that I had. My first match was October sixteenth, which is
my nineteenth birthday, October sixteenth, nineteen ninety two, and I wrestled every
week since then from October sixteenth, nineteen ninety two till you know, ten
weeks. That was my run in Calgary. Then after that it was Christmas
break and the promotion didn't run for a couple of weeks. So I went
back to Connecticut. You know, my mom and dad got me a ticket
to come back home. And it's the beginning of nineteen ninety thirty. And
I never ended up going back to Calgary because there was really enough there.
But again, mind you, I'm in Connecticut now. All of my roots
in professional wrestling are in Calgary. I didn't know anybody in Connecticut. Again,
no social media, no Internet, everything's very different, and I had
no connections here. I ended up finding a couple of small, very small
independent organizations just by kind of running around and asking people in the gyms.
You'd see something some you know, find something in a paper somewhere or in
a magazine. You'd take a trip somewhere to go meet, you know,
somebody who's running a show, you know, try to connect with people.
Nothing worked, So I think it was March or April ninety three. The
WWE back then, WWF had a house show in New Haven, Connecticut,
at a place where I had gone many times in my childhood to watch the
perform, you know, watch the wrestle, and I went back backstage.
I had my bag. In back then, you were always taught because there
wasn't so many like now, everybody's a wrestler. There's like a million wrestlers,
you know, and these kids, like it's so different than it was
back then. There were probably only one hundred and fifty pro wrestlers in America
period period. Now now there's probably a thousand or more. Right that then
there was like a third or not even not even a third. So I
went backstage. I had my bag because you were always taught. If you're
gonna go to a wrestling show, you're not booked, bring your gear,
God forbid, somebody doesn't show you up, or somebody gets hurt, you
know, if you're there visiting, hanging out you know, you might get
called up to the main stage. So I went to I had the balls
and the wherewithal to go to a wwehouse show with my bag. I walk
right backstage and I met Tony Garrilla, who was a long time what you
called today producers. We called them agents. Famous Tony Garria, one of
the grades, you know what I mean, former WWF Tag Team champion agent
forever like he was there until the after the Attitude era. You know,
Tony's a great guy, still alive today, lives in Florida, still a
good friend. He's like, well, we don't need anybody today. I
ran into him and you know, thank you, sir for letting me hang
out. He goes, just watch the show, stay here, stay out
of trouble. So, you know, he allows me backstage. I'm watching
the show from the curtain. You know, amazing experience. I got to
shake hands and need a lot of wrestlers. At the end, you know,
everybody's packing up, the show's over, everybody's getting in their car to
go out into the next town. And I said, Sarah, thank you
so much for the opportunity to just come here and you know, watch the
show and meet people. Etc. You know, he's a real honor He
goes, well, he goes, We're starting a new show called Monday Night
Broad and we need some extra talent in Manhattan in the next couple of weeks
where you be interested. And I'm like, okay. So they were looking
for job gay extras whatever you want to call it, to start this new
show that they were taping called Monday Night Raw And it was an hour and
a half away from my house and you know, downtown Manhattan. But I'm
from Connecticut, so it was a quick drive. So for him, he
was booking the extras. Hey, this is one guy I could send down.
You know, he's from the Hearts, he's from Calgary. He's probably
pretty good. You know, He's one of the guys I could use on
that show. So that's how it all got started. In my initial connection
to the WWW as that one moment of taking the you know, the chance
of going backstage and just introducing myself. May I introduce introject for a check?
And I started early bad, so you have to take with me,
Okay. I trip over my tongue sometimes. Okay, So right around this
time, like right before Ross started, because you and I both remember it
as Monday night prime time back in the old days. So you and I
were obviously both big wrestling fans. Rockey was, you know, coming up,
And so the fact was, I remember the Big Four, it was
WWF, the NWA, it was world class and basically Memphis. Yeah,
you know that's and it like because Florida was dying off pretty early eighty nine
two. Yeah, And so I'm a historian. I'm obviously I've never worked
in the industry zone command or demand respect like you do. But I have
to imagine with your fresh eyes, you're coming in and you're getting shot at
what everybody calls take time right away, and you might have had, I
think, my my perspective better shots at some of those other territories. But
you know, with with Dallas merging with USWA and the AWA dying, because
you and I both know by watching ESPN all the time, so you had
that USWA merger, so you had what they thought would be a superpower.
But you're like looking at this and saying, Okay, well, I might
be enhancement for now, but it's for the best company in the world.
So where did the go or did you think, well, maybe I could
get my toes and other ponds, but where you're just so excited about that
ww's experience that you're like full born. That's a great wow. Nobody's ever
asking that, And that's a great question because it does like going back to
that. I mean, I know I didn't want to be a job guy,
and back then there was no real clear path to a job a guy
getting a job. I mean there were guys like Barry Horror Whips And this
was right about the time as well. Think about it as the one two
three kid, exactly the same time as the one two three Kid, my
friend Shawn Waltman. And there was really no it was to me, it
was not even a calculating move. It was just simply a move to how
do I stay in the business? Right? You know? I could just
do shitty indies like once a year or once every two years and be a
top guy or a mid guy or a lower card guy, or do I
go and work for the ww WE as a job guy. And I saw
I had seen a lot of guys and I wasn't even thinking this at the
time, to be honest, but I saw a lot of guys who had
some names in the end because again, the indies were not really covered.
It was like talk about mud show, like you know what nobody really reported
on Indians, you know what I mean. It wasn't a thing like it
is today. And I want to talk about this at some point. To
me, now, indies are almost a disgrace because you know, it's just
so much anybody with a ring and anybody that trains a guy for a week
could have an indie show and it's it's and it's killing the business. But
that's another thing. But that didn't exist then, it really didn't. So
I was just like, look, this is just a way for me to
again meet people and get my foot in the door. And I really didn't
think of a lot of it. It was really like the only thing I
could do, you know. In that same path that I took, also
was happening for another guy who got very famous in the w W. Scotti,
Johadie Scott Taylor, because he was doing really think yeah, him and
I started almost at the same exact time, very good friends to this day,
traveling buddies back in the day. But he started out of Massachusetts and
was you know, we did the some of the same indies and ended up
doing the same exact you know, because when the WWE came to do TVs,
they picked the best indie guys to do jobs right, and Scottie was
always one of those guys in the nineties, you know, especially in the
early nineties. So yeah, so it was a lot of that stuff happening.
It was really cool, you know. So as you're getting your feet
wet into business and you're starting to punish it, hone in on your craft.
Where is your who's your inspiration for your move? Sat and where how
did you come up with your finishers and your second sure moves? I really
had nothing. I really had nothing. I just really tried to be the
best wrestler I could be, and the stuff I had done as Aldo was
like really just um, you know, me thinking, okay, what I
always thought I could be. You know because at the time I was two
twenty two twenty five. I'm six foot tall. That's not big in those
days, right, We're talking about still the land of Giants, where everybody's
six three two forty. Remember I remember being in the locker room with ted
d Beyonce Grow and Teddy a great guy. Loved Teddy to this day.
Wonderfully. But you know, he's the million dollar man on TV. You
know, he's got this amazing gimmick. But he was so tall and so
thick and big and muscular. You're talking about like Division one college football player.
He kind of guys, you know what I mean, like real superior
athletes, not just some muscled up dudes. You're talking about guys that are
super tall, super thick, and can run and work faster than you.
So I was like, you know what I mean, Like, what the
hell, dude? Um, these guys were prime, prime, superior athletes.
So it really took a lot to kind of figure out where am I
Am I gonna make it in in this kind of industry where everybody's so big.
So at two twenty two twenty five six foot, I had to be
a high flyer back in those days, because if you remember, Owen Hart
was always the smallest of the hearts, and he was a high Yes,
right, Owen was a high flyer. You had to be at that,
you know, because if you were under two hundred or hovering around the two
to twenty to twenty, you still have Benua all those guys they were.
We had to be high flyers. In those days, or else who weren't
you know, Pillman, Brian Pillman, those guys you had to be,
or else who weren't getting involved, you know, or you'd be a jobber
so again, you know. And and the guys who Dbasi I remember being
sixty three and he had two inch risers on his boots, so he probably
stood about six four six five. You know, everybody talked out even holding
all those guys. They were just so larger than light. You were always
trying to be bigger and better than whether it be through steroids or through lifts
on your shoes or whatever. However, whatever magic trips you could pull to
look big, they did it, you know. So I was like,
whoa, you know, And it wasn't until so anyway, That's how I
started to develop My moveset was always like more of a high flyer, and
that was because my lack of size, which is funny to say now,
because in aw I'm a goddamn monster compared to these guys that looked like swimmers.
May I interject without intercheckering again, So here's something that I noticed about
you the first time I saw you. I believe you were p J.
Walker. First time I saw you in t Okay and I I'm usually a
wrestling encyclopedia, but you corrected me. I thought it was in Global,
but it turns out it was USWA, so I didn't get to see your
matches on Rock. Now. There was three people that I thought was synonymou
with their I think they called like Junior Heavyweight, um the Visual and I
always thought you were part of it, and that's shame on me for not
knowing that. But it was always Sean Waltman, you know, really really
well, Jerry Winn and exactly Yeah, we don't know what to do with
him. Uh, just let him be himself. So when I looked back
at like the history of me watching you coming up, I was always impressed
by the stuff that you could do. Sean Waltmon could do, Jerry Lynn
could do. But he disappeared for a while until he became mister j L,
which was right about the time that Ross was trying to get into the
Attitude era to get back at Nitro. But that's neither here nor there.
The point is I remember your move set and remember what you could do,
and every time I saw you, which was later on on Raw with the
Aldo thing, I'm sorry to bring it up. Well, I mean,
you made money. You made money, you know even that I was,
I don't want to go up on it, but I I loved it was
a great growing experience. So I just remember like seeing the three of you
as synonymous, and I hated the fact that the Lightning kid, which was
amazing in global, became the one two three kid with a clean shaven face
and acting like he was going to cry. And Jerry Lynn like, like
I said, he who knows what he did for a couple of years,
then he comes back under a mask, and it's like that's for all of
us who read everything. And at this point, I'm sure and I'm not
trying to rush anything, is when I think you saw it as much as
I did. The territories were really collapsing because it was down to at this
point just WWE or WWF as you and I know it, and WCW who
bought out the NWA, who never had the same ideals, and you had
to go through so many different people and so many different management things. I
couldn't imagine what was on your mind if you had to get sent there.
But the meantime, something else did happen to you when you got sent someplace
else. And I'm not talking about ECW, you know what I'm talking about.
Um, well, are you talking about me going back to members or
yeah, going back to manthis and tagging out the PG thirteen, Yes,
and being a PG one eight seven. That was one of my favorites on
tape training. I was like, that's him. Well it was. I
literally, all right, let's let's rewind it a bit. I literally literally
was doing really good as Aldo, and I don't even I forget sometimes what
I did as Aldo. Um, I went back and watched some shit,
dude. Um, I mean I had a feud with both Jerry Lawler and
Jeff Jarrett on when I was Aldo. I beat Jerry Lawler on raw.
As Aldo, I beat Jeff Jarrett in an non title match, did a
week's worth of promos challenging him for the IC title, then going for the
the Icy Belt and having road Dog interfere, and then Razor coming in to
save me, and then us having tag matches Me and Razor against uh,
you know, road Dog and Jeff Jarrett. So like I was grooming this
like the little guy that could but never could make it and that was a
good gimmick for me. I was learning. I was on the road wrestling,
getting you know, kind of getting my reps in right, working with
world class talent all over the place, making money. It was great opportunity
in great times. And although at one point, you know, after a
while in ninety six, you know, the beginning of ninety seven started to
really like, okay, this is kind of it feraldo you know, it
went as far as it could go. Did the best he could with it,
he really did, and he gave me a lot of opportunities. I'm
not gonna lie and like sometimes I have the narrative that they didn't do anything
with me, but going back and watching all that they did, I actually
had a good little run, as you know, nothing great, but a
good little run. You know. They tried a couple of things here and
there. You know, it's just what it was. But anyways, I
digress. So my contract about to come up, Razor and keV went to
WCW. It was the big exit of you know, my friend Kevin Nash
and Scott Hall. And at the time my contract was coming up, and
I was really feeling myself having great matches on the road, really kind of
like I'm twenty four going on twenty four. I was twenty four, twenty
three, twenty four really getting good now because I'm having you know, I'm
wrestling four or five times a week on house shows, wrestling top talent,
really having like ed and at times best match of the night. You know.
Um, and I strongly we can say that. I'm not embarrassed to
say that. People go back and look at the history books. You'll probably
get the same thing I'm saying to you. Um, you know, because
it was, you know, I was really going over and above to have
the best match of the night against guys like Chris Candido, doctor Tom Pritchard,
many other amazing people. Yes. Great, Yeah. And so anyways,
I go to Vince and I'm like, you know, we get a
meeting at the Great Stanford Titan Towers, and I go in and I'm like,
Vince, you know, thank you for taking this meeting. You know,
I'm very grateful for everything you've done. But I said, uh,
you know, I kind of, um, i feel like I've done the
most i can as this character. I've learned so much. I'm very grateful
for this opportunity. But I said, you know, at the going kind
of where we're going in this business and where I'm going in this business,
I feel like I've kind of plateaued. I said, um, you know,
if you don't mind, I'd like to get my release and uh kind
of you know, test the markets to see if I can go somewhere else.
And I thought that was going to be a no brain or Vince would
be like, I got no problem. You're you know, you're not a
guy that's used very much right now, No problem, And Vince actually said
no. He goes, you know, I don't want to let you go.
I said, you use as you're an up and coming guy. He
goes, I've I've invested a lot of TV time and a lot of resources
on preparing you. He goes, I don't want you to go, and
he goes, I'm going to send you to Memphis, not as a punishment,
but as a way to develop yourself and a heel persona and come back
to WWF as a heel you know. No mask. The whole thing,
you know, because that's why they put the mask on anyways, was they
knew very well that I was going to be a generational guy, that I
was going to be there for a long time. They were going to kind
of make me, you know, make me learn under the mask, and
then when time was right, kind of like how they did with a lot
of guys if you really remember the Alice Snows, the Canes, the so
many guys they put under a hood then take it off and they have a
whole new character. It was a similar thing. They just like, you
know, you cut your fucking teeth. Now let's turn you into something else.
So he's like, I want you to go to USWA and learn to
work as a heel. Then we'll bring you back up. And that's what
happened. You know, I went to us way and learn to work as
a heel. And okay, so I'm gonna sign Maria real quick here.
First of all, I lived in Memphis for like thirteen years, but it
was way after you were gone and done. Okay. I love that city
up and down at one point and ran a quarter of deal street through story
And my favorite place to get go is the Kooky Canuck. Help sponsor the
show at eighty seven South Second Street. Go see Shan Danko, a good
friend of mine, my mentor and one of my best friends. But getting
into what's really important with this is at this point USWA didn't have the ESPN
time slot as far as I knew anymore, Global hadn't botched data, and
everything that they could do was just really screwed. So from my understanding and
from some prior stuff, I don't really want to drum it up too much.
You said it wasn't a punishment, But could you provide for your family?
No, that's the whole thing that could not vince was giving me five
hundred dollars a week. That was it. And that five hundred dollars a
week. Mind, you have to provide for not only I just did gotten
married to my wife, who I'm still marriagated this day. Um, I
had to provide for my house in Connecticut, my car in Connecticut, my
living in Connecticut, my regular living, and also provide for an apartment in
Memphis, a rental car in Memphis, food, et cetera, et cetera.
So I'm five hundred dollars a week. How are you supposed to do
that? Think about us run two spots, two car payments, food,
it's how are you doing that? You know what I mean? So you're
living, You're living your good. I'm doing twelve hundred dollars in the whole
and what do you think about this time? Star? You know, if
not more? Um, you know, I just it was too much.
I mean I was really I was literally I remember us being down there because
my wife was on the road loogly. Then in Memphis, we were there
for whopping six weeks, but it was the worst six weeks of my life.
And we were at a point where we were literally ordering We'd go to
like one of those chain restaurant it's like a Friday's or Chilies or whatever those
places are, and like we'd order a baked potato. That's tad. We'd
just go because we did we had a place to you know, a pitty
little one bedroom extended stay, you know, apartment, and if we wanted
to go out on a Friday night, we each order a baked potato with
some like you know, salsa on the side so we could like, you
know, make some kind of a meal and get out of the house for
you know, out of the apartment or whatever that check that it was,
you know, And I was losing again, back to losing weight, back
to not eating. And now I'm also thinking I just married this girl,
and you know this is how Hey, welcome to your new life with this
guy who cannot provide you will you know what I mean anything? It was
just again, it was back to square one, and you know it's crazy.
So when at what point, what year, or what contract would move
did it take to finally get you where you were providing forty with without a
stress. Yes, the last show I ever did for USWA from Memphis was
a show. If you remember, in nineteen ninety seven, ECW had a
an angle with Jerry Lawler and they were, you know, Jerry Lawler was
coming up to ECWTV and they were feuding. So as part of the angle,
my last show was in Memphis. They had Tommy Dreamer, the Sandman,
Rob Van Damn, Sabu, Paul Hayman, and Tom I said,
Tommy Dreamer, Chris Candido and they were on this ECW show And in the
angle, I portrayed one of the ECW guys. They just gave me an
ec W shirt and it was just storyline stuff. But Chris Candido, who
was an old friend of mine from the WWE slash w WF. He was
a skip from the Body Downards and we don't get me started that one.
Yeah, I know, but we had worked together and we loved each other.
We're good friends. He's like, man, you should come work for
ECW because I was telling them how shitty things were, and uh, you
know, I was ready to go home, I know, ready to kind
of give it up, and he goes, man, you know, come
work for us, Come work for Paul. So long story short, I
gave my notice. I told Vince I was I was done for good this
time. I got my ticket out of Memphis and I had arranged to work
a tryout. It was more of a I don't know if it was a
tryout of whatever it was, but I ended up working the weekend for Paul
Hayman ECW. I did Queens New York and then I debuted. I did
Queens New York on Friday night as Aldo, where I ripped off the mask
and say fwwe im ECW, and then the next day it was the next
show. I worked as Justin Credible for the first time ever. I think
it was in October of ninety seven, and that's where I got the name
Justin credib Land. I wrestled just for records sake the Incoming Jerry Lynn.
So him and I were the first match in ECW first, Yes, and
that's where the Justin Credible character started. And from then Paul went to Vince
and said, look, you don't want to give him his release to go
to WCW, that's fine, send him over to me and we'll call it
a day. And my contract with Vince went into a contract with Paul,
and I became ECW till the company went out of business. That's amazing.
Now, can I rewind one second? Because at one point I sometimes I
message Wolfie d on Facebook, and at one point you were put with them
and you were PG one eight seven, So I want to know about that
character. Was that the roots that you were starting for Justin Incredible? It
was in a way I just didn't know what else to do because everything was
moving so fast. I really didn't get a chance to think about it,
you know what I mean. And I was just trying to you know,
I just kind of think, like, how would I act if I was
one of those guys, you know, just kind of trying to be a
thug, trying to be something I wasn't because it wasn't very natural for me
right to do that. Kind of PG thirteen stuff. I was really out
of my comfort zone. But I was trying to be somebody. So yeah,
that was kind of where I was at, but I had a hard
time doing it. It wasn't until I got to Paul and he started to
really mold me. And then and then just incredible, kind of just became
neat very slowly, but you know, because if you look at my first
the first episode, the first TV taping of me is just incredible. I
still don't look right, but very soon, you know, you get a
couple of weeks into it, you know what I mean, you just start
he started to make you feel more comfortable, and then I just became me,
which is like I was just a combo of like the guys that I
liked, you know that, guys like Sean Michael, guys like Razor Ramone
and Rick Flayer. I just became all, you know in my own presentation.
Yeah, well with w W. You know, the Chiler it used
to be the land of the giants and the body building buffs, and then
by the nineties, after the steroid era, all that changed. You know.
Growing up, I've always you know, I'm drawn to the largest the
life characters like Andre the show Taker and Cane, but that's only because of
their size. But I mostly connect with people like you because we have by
the same height, same build, And when I see guys that have my
height and build, it makes me those are the guys that I connect with
more in the ring. Sure, So you know, whenever, when you
got to eat ECW, that's when I encourage you and discovered you. And
we all know and still feel the how impactful ECW was. Supper wrestling,
the the allegiance of the hardcore fans spirit still wars today wrestling. So you
know, ECW changed a lot for the industry. It even changed backyard wrestling.
I want to be too hardcore wrestling want to be And I noticed because
I was one of them, you know, jumping on the back Campellin's as
young kids. Yeah, you know, it was a great time growing up
as a changer for me. It was one thing it was was it captured.
It was so different, and what Paulie did with wrestling is it's just
I can't even explain it because it was you couldn't do it today, And
it wasn't because of It wasn't because we were so extreme or It wasn't because
we were so different. It was just we were kind of a voice of
the voices. And I know that sounds very easy to say, what does
that mean. It's like we were everything that the fans wanted that nobody was
getting. The great the great thing Paul Hayman had was to feel the pulse
of the industry and that was because of WCW, and that was because of
WWE. They were both not providing us with what we wanted. You know.
WWE was very cartoon, was very you know, vanilla, you know.
And it was not to say it wasn't good. I mean, they
had some of the greatest wrestlers doing some good work. Don't get me wrong,
WCW. They had a lot of amazing wrestlers as well. They had
some of the greats, but still they couldn't get their ship, you know
what I mean. It just all felt outdated. And then there was ECW.
All of a sudden, We're playing popular music music that you and I
are going, you know, listening to in school, ship that's on the
radio. We're doing music videos, We're having beautiful girls on our show,
you know, dancing or coming out with the wrestlers and getting involved. You
had blood, which was again something that was happening in FMW, in the
subculture of professional wrestling. So Paul just took a little bit of everything,
mashed it up into one and there was the birth, you know what I
mean. And he took people that were underrated people with all the talent in
the world, and ECW became Frankenstein's monster, you know, a build and
a global brand that nobody you know, sign of the times, as the
Great Prince would say, And that's what ECW was. So speaking of that
music that shall play? What inspires your theme music? Did you come up
with it? I didn't get who gave it to you? Then Paul gave
me it, I believe it or not. He had he had the whole
character scoped out long before I came to play. I think he had that
character well in mind. I just think he needed somebody to come along who
could do it or who he felt could do it. So, yeah,
that whole thing was top to bottom Paul Hammond and how you think about it,
and he presented it to bro I was just happier than a pig and
shit anyways, right because I got to just be a part of something so
cool, and I knew it was something rather. I mean, this is
again, this is something that was so obviously a head and shoulders above anything
else. It was so punk rock, it was the it was so cool.
I mean, you got to remember ECW was a small brand and we
were in hot topics, in the malls, we were in everyt we were
in, you know, ec ec up and W shirt were everywhere. We
were the cool kids. And you know, we felt we took that and
ran with it and people were starting to notice them. You know, we
were he was just we were riding that lightning bolt, you know, and
it was just it was really cool, and Paul was really the the epicenter
of it, and he just put his guys in place where he felt could
could could carry that a ka revolution and it was, you know, in
some terms, you know, a revolution, not necessarily a pro wrestler,
but like of what could be done. You know, It's like, you
know, the Internet was going to start coming. We already had ECW wrestling
dot Com, but back then it was just for pictures and stuff like that
and results. But we knew very close behind was going to be the Internet
era of wrestling. So we already started to kind of get in with the
get in bed with the dirt sheets and start to become, you know,
super smart in how to book these things to the smarts. We started to
realize how that was the thing, you know, all of it. So
let's let's get the gardener in here. That's my other nickname, by the
way, the captain and the second best pro wrestling you know, podcaster in
Louisville, because you know, as no one can touch Jimmy. But there's
some things from this era that I remember and some things I want to talk
to us. First of all, it's the drinking question. Was I I've
always wondered, were you part of the clique. It's always been rumored that
you were part of the clique. Um, I mean I'd like to think
so. I mean, it wasn't It wasn't an initiation or anything. I
mean, look, we were a bunch of guys, a bunch of friends
that you know, drove around to the shows together that we're hanging out together,
you know, Scott All, Shawn Michaels. I mean, look,
I stayed when Shawn Michaels left WWE in ninety seven and ninety eight. I
think it was ninety eight and he opened up his wrestling school. I spent
a week down there at his wrestling school the year that Daniel Bryan was a
student, helping train Damn Bryan. So I was down at Shawn's house,
sleeping at his house. I was at Scott's place. He came up to
my place. You know, a kid. All of us were friends.
So if I'm not in the clip, then whatever. But I think the
clip became more of a marketing tool. You know, we were all friends,
you know, it became it started to become more of a marketing thing.
When WWE started do T shirts on it. Then that's when you knew
it wasn't a real thing anymore, you know what I'm saying. Well,
well, my next question was, did you ever feel like when you got
basically said, not punished, but sent down to uswa that that could have
been part of the curtain call? Because I don't know timeline if it was
before or after, But if it was so, just because you were friends
with him, he might have just said, Hey, you gotta go,
and I'll just put it on you. I'll put all the guilt on you.
I thought about that, but I've never presented you with that, because
honestly, I never really talked to you much before the last couple of days.
Yeah, it could have been, sure, I mean I have thought
about that. You know, I know for a fact that they didn't let
me go because of that, you know. But you know what, but
in a way, if I'm almost grateful that they didn't let me go.
And Vince was a good Vince was not a bad guy. I mean,
I know Vince's sometimes betrayed as the cartoon character monster that he sometimes can be,
but you was a real good dude. And I think he was hurt
by Kevin and Scott leaving, and I think he had every right to feel
hurt. But at the same extent, I mean those guys, I mean,
I know Scott was you know, Scott wasn't making the money you guys
think he made his razor. He was making two hundred and fifty grand a
year, dude, and today's wrestling, that's that a ship. That's terry,
you know what I mean. And I think he was hurt by that.
He wanted to make more, and I don't blame him, so I
think, you know, I think it was just a way too. I
don't know, I think everybody before. It all had to happen the way
it did, because if it didn't, I don't think Vince would have survived.
The Monday n AT Wars wouldn't have happened. Nothing wouldn't have happened.
It actually worked out perfectly, That's you know what I mean, Because we
could speculate all we want, but it all ended up happening the way it
was supposed to it. I think, you know, I really do fair
enough. Now getting back to what the first time I saw you in ECW,
you were presented in the greatest time slot. It was Sports Channel America
at two am in Cleveland, Ohio. But you know what, do you
know how many people stayed up to see that? And yeah, a lot.
That's it was underground beginnings and everybody I knew that red dirt sheets and
knew about what ECW wasn't I this is before you debut. We had all
gotten this underground Outlook, you know, this underground thing going on. And
this is before the internet. Like you said that, you had BBS's bolton
board servers where you would post things like this is happening on wrestling. You
know what I'm talking about. And of course Meltzer was all over that.
Wade Keller was all over that. That's the first time I ever actually talk
to you, was Wade Keller, and so getting down to it when you
came out, I looked at and I said, I hate this. This
isn't the guy I knew, and I didn't want although I wanted PJ.
Walker or or the PG one eighty seven, I wanted to see that character.
And then the mega push you got right out the gate and I was
like, he shouldn't be going over Jerry Lynn. The matches you guys had
were amazing, amazing. They hate you, Drew. I was just like,
I hate this guy, hate this guy. And all of a sudden
he smiled one day and I said, he's doing his damn job. Yeah.
And I became a huge fan of yours, and I was like,
we kind of look we kind of look alike. We're kind of small guys.
And they you had to fill the role of Ravens Shoes. Tell me
how that was, knowing that you had to be the top guy. Heel
Um, it was. It was. I'd like to say it was intimidating,
but Paulie made it. Nahum he was. I'll tell you. One
thing about Paul Paul Human is a great He's not a great booker, now
hear me, hear me on the bore. Everybody gets crazy. He wasn't
the greatest booker. He wasn't the greatest storyteller. And I think he'd agree
with me. I would challenge him on this public right now if he has
any thoughts. But I think he was the best motivator. And what I
mean by that is he would challenge you and he would put those things up
against you and he would tell you like kind of like this is where it's
at, and you would want to. He would see the drive in you,
and he would kind of put these obstacles up in front of you because
he wanted you to go kind of go for it, to try to outdo
and to try to be better than I mean to be Raven is almost like
ridiculous. I mean, he is the iconic ECW guy, right, He'll
one of the one of the greatest. You know, in my opinion,
I love study to death to this absolutely at the day Guy's you know,
one of my favorites. Super super super smart, super cerebral, cerebral,
super good in the ring. I mean he could do anything. So just
to be in that conversation was amazing. I mean he did literally did for
Dreamer and he was doing that for me now. Um, so you know,
Paul did that by design because there's no there's no way to to really
test somebody. And this is where Tony con goes wrong because he lets the
inmates rule the asylum. Where Paul would just put you in front of the
other guy and hand you a hot mic instead of the other way around,
like he'd put like it would be like, you know, put the two
best guys in the room and let him go at it. But in a
you know, in a way that simply you know, you're going for storylines
and you're going forward, you know what I mean, for for good television
content. And Paul knew what was what was up and that was the beauty
of it, you know. And uh and Raven was you know, he
taught me so much and getting to work with him and and everything. I
mean, Scottie and I go back a long way, and it was just
you know, I just I know you had to take that role. And
I don't mean to cut you off, but you have to take that role.
And that's you know, you're going against Dreamer. Now you're going against
sand Man. You're going against you know, the guy who can't be and
the guy who can always do it, and you're decimating him, taking them
out while their side sidebar and with Sabu and Van Damn to other things.
But you made it done so well. Then you put together a misfits following
of people around you. You want to talk a little bit more about those
misfits too? Or was that was that? Um? Obviously it was Hayman.
But how did you feel about, like, you know, you're entourage
the sides Lance Storm, who was one of the great in ring performers of
all time. Yes, I wasn't crazy about it. I wasn't crazy about
it, and I didn't understand it at first. I didn't know why he
did it. I felt again this is at first, Um, I thought
Jason Knight was a bit beneath me, only because you know, even though
Jason was a television you know, ECWTV champion and he's a great wrestler in
his own right. Don't get me wrong, he really was, UM,
but I felt he was beneath me. I felt, you know, Nicole
Bass and all the girls and all the side shows it was beneath the I
thought it was kind of just like smoking mirrors. But I think he did
it for a reason, and you know, I just think it made me
get better. It made me kind of taught me how to use that because
the whole thing behind that was Paul wanted wanted heat, but he also wanted,
you know, people to get you know, they wanted to get through.
You gotta get through Jason Knight. You gotta get through the girl.
You gotta get through this one or that one to even get to me.
That's you know what I mean, That's like, who does this guy?
I think he is kind of a thing, you know, because I really
wasn't supposed to be Billy Baddist. I was supposed to be the guy barely
making it out alive. Hence all the attachments I had storyline wise, you
know, speaking of speaking of storyline, I've always been very interested in stuff
behind the scenes, the creative part of it. Talk to us and tell
us how how they told you get there, We're gonna put the trap on
you. What was the creative process? But how did that come to be?
And how there was no creative process? Literally, what had happened.
And I know you guys know the story, but I will lay it on
you. Mike Awesome was leaving for WCW. This was a time where PAULI
was really trying to accommodate everyone financially, because again, this is two thousand,
I believe. Yeah, it's two thousand and April two thousand, I
remember, and Paully was trying to accommodate everyone. This is the height of
the Monday Night Wars. You know, WCWS didn't play w W E isn't
play. Everybody's doing business. We're doing killer business, by the way.
And we had Mike Awesome as the World's heavyweight champion. Now Paul put the
title on Mike, in my opinion, to try to keep Mike kind of
almost like, you know, treat Mike as a mark, like, hey,
we're going to give you the belt. Maybe that'll suffice instead of giving
you a big payday, right, Okay, So they give him the title.
You know, he's the world's champion. And now you have Mike Alwsom
who still doesn't have a new deal with ECW, and WCW comes knocking and
I think, and I'm not sure about the contracts so please excuse me if
I'm wrong. But then you know, Mike has the belt and WCW gives
him an offer he pretty much cannot refuse financially. So Mike takes the offer
and he leaves to go to WCW with the ECW title. He's still the
world champion. He appears on Nitro, mind you, and I think Paul
filed an injunction. And the only reason I know this is because I saw
it on like a WWE produced documentary, so I know, you know what
I mean. So I know it's kind of legit because that's how they take
a worry. But anyway, so they filed an injunction. So Mikelowsom,
even though he is recognized as an ECW champion, shows up on Nitro but
without the belt. Okay, he does like a run in and he leaves
through the crowd, like, what's this ECW guy doing here? On Nitro.
Paul somehow finangles a deal between Vince and Bischoff where Mike Alossom who stays
in a kind of like an hotel room all night by himself, no talking
to Task, no talking to anybody. Wrestle's Task, who is by the
way from and contracted to WWE, who has been on WWW ETV. They
show up in Indianapolis, both not without talking to one another. Now we
don't know if there's a double cross going to happen. WCW security is there,
w R ECW security is there. It's like a wild show. Nobody
knew where he was because they were afraid that if we knew where Mike Alowsom
was, the ECW locker room was going to kick it for real. So
anyways, they kind of get Mike to the ring. He drops the belt
to Taz. Okay, Mike goes off into the sunset. He does the
right thing, drops the ECW titles to Taz, who is a WWE wrestler.
Next week, very following week at the ECW Arena, we have Taz
versus Tommy Dreamer for the ECW title. Again. Mind u, Taz is
the WWW wrestler with the ECW title. Dreamer beats Taz now Okay, that
night, literally that show was on probably fifth or that match was on fifth
or sixth, I would say two matches beforehand, I had nothing on the
show. I thought I was just doing a run in. Paulie pulls me
aside and says, you're gonna go out there and you're going to kick Dreamer
and you're going to hit him with the pile driver and cover him one two
three. I'm like, okay, how does that happened? He goes,
Oh, well, dream is gonna win the belt for tasks and then you're
gonna interrupt challenging for the belt and you're gonna be going a new champion.
I literally found out fifteen minutes before it literally fifteen minutes. So that's how
that happened, and that's how a lot of was Paul happened. You never
knew, dude, you literally never knew. I thought I had a night
off. I wasn't even in my gear. I was like, oh I
got an easy night tonight, you know, easy payday? Sweet? You
know I did. I had no idea that that night was going to make
my career. So that's how La. That's you know, literally how it
would go sometimes, and that's what happened. So eternally grateful. You couldn't
have gone. You couldn't plan that, you know, And that was the
wonderful, beautiful madness of Paul. So I always wonder about that, like
thinking about like everything that he did with the like misfits and like, I
don't paul you were Jerry lennonmis fit. But it was just you bounced around,
you know, you didn't have like proper opportunities shippers. Yes, guys
that weren't shippers. Well you can't. You can't help that. You you
weren't born at six foot four, two hundred and sixty foot house. That's
the way it is sometimes, right, that's how they would do, you
know. So yeah, and you you look at the Sandman and you never
say fitness buff. It just never clicks in your head. But yet you
had some classic matches. He's bigger than you. He was a guy Steve
Austin couldn't beat. People forget that he was a guy. Steve Austin couldn't
be It was all the right place at the right time, putting that that
that that cauldron together and stirring it up. You're hitten down there and you're
saying, Okay, the checks are not going to be as great as we
thought they were. That bad though, people see, that's the thing.
People have that assumption. I was making more for Paulie when he went out
of business than I was for ww Love. You know, I've I've heard
the shoot videos where Shane Douglas says that he makes more being, you know,
a general manager of a Walmart than he does that he ever did in
any one year in wrestling. I don't know if it's true or not.
I don't know if he's bitter or not. I mean, um, well,
actually that's something I want to reflect on and ask you real quickly.
So looking around those those ECUM locker rooms, a couple of really important questions.
One, who would you have wrestled in ECW? That was in ECW
but gone by the time you got there. Oh, I'll light you up
man. Hell yeah. Well Eddie ben Wahre I worked with Jericho was actually
funny story. He was my first or fourth fourth ever and there's video of
this and I've begged the internet for this. Um. He was my fourth
ever match in Rocky Mountain Wrestling in Calgary. J Walker versus Chris Jericho is
there. I had it on VHS and that I don't know where that went
and my mom's I don't know where it's gone, but there was. Yeah,
I had my first ten matches. It was p J. Walker versus
Chris Jericho number four and land Storm versus p J. Walker number eight,
all from Rocky Mountain Wrestling in Calgary. And I would love, love,
love if somebody could come up with those matches because they do exist anyways.
Yes, but I didn't want any of those guys. I didn't see any
of those guys as because I worked with all of them later on in WWE.
I don't know, man, I don't know who that would have been.
I didn't I didn't want to work with Jericho because I've worked with Jericho
even though he was young and I was young. He was just like kind
of a stiff clown, Like as good as he thinks he can be,
he was kind of a clown. I don't know, man, he was
stiff, he was reckless. I didn't enjoy working with him. Um.
Eddie I got to work with in WWW. I loved Eddie. Um.
Probably Eddie if anybody and ben want too. I worked with ben Wan www.
Um he's a bit scary not to be in the ring with. Nonetheless,
but either I would have said, I would have said Eddie guer for
sure. Well what about let's not forget Kurt Angle? Yeah yeah, but
uh, you know that was that's a I think a different plane though I
don't think that it well, I was talking ECW style rules, so I
was just trying to thinking, like people that I need to wrestle there.
So you know, it's it's it's an open ended question. But you know,
I I think about like I would love do you see you know,
you know the miracle portray. I've never seen you wrestle ring. I'm sure
you probably have there, it is there, it is I love to wrestle,
right, Oh my god, that would be Jerry Lyndon times. Not
because of that, just I think because of what you could do. You
know, wow, that would be amazing and started me back. Since there
was no storyline for your title, win, can you talk to us about
a favorite storyline that you were involved in at any point of your career.
That's a good question, man, Um, I really liked and this is
a bit dark, but I remember because I was always it's always you know,
a lack of sometimes opponents and lack of good stories. You know,
it always seems like it was me and Tommy Dreamer, Me and Tommy Dreamer,
no matter what, Like there was so many times like if you look
at my paper, I wrestled every pay per view in ECW history except for
the very first one, Barely Legal. The rest I was on. I
was on every single one except barely Legal the first um and I would say
Tommy Dreamer because I got him so many times. But the one that really
made sense, and this was Dreamer's idea, was his grandfather died and Tommy
loved his grandfather very much. Of course it didn't, but the point was
Tommy's grandfather kind of introduced him to professional wrestling, and so there was this
thing. And I the day that Tommy Dreamer's grandfather died, or a couple
of days after, I went into the ECW arena, cut a big long
promo, you know, saying that I wish it wasn't you know, I
interrupted the ten bell salute to Tommy's dad, granddad. I wish it wasn't
him that died, your grandfather. I wish it was you. It was
you. I just thought that was so lad because it was really it was
really raw and really feeling it, and it was a lot of emotion in
the building that night. So just for me, I'm just I'm spitballing.
I'm sure that I could think of another one, but that one to me
was pretty that's pretty special because Tommy said to me, because I didn't like
it, I didn't feel comfortable. And Tommy says, PJ, don't worry.
He goes to my grandfather and would be so proud that we're using his
name in a gimmick in the angle, Okay, dream you know, whatever
you want? You know, because I love Tommy. I respect tom with
all my art. You know, I said whatever you want, bro,
you know I love I love that man, you know, with all my
art. Tommy's the best. What about traveling buddies that you hit on the
road with, anybody you favorite it to hit the road with any uh nos
of stories you want to share? Well, um, there's a there's a
whole other podcast we have to do if I'm gonna get into the Jeff Hardy
just incredible stories that out. Yeah, that's what I would love to hear
that. Yeah, it's a wild ride. Um but yeah, a lot
of a lot of stuff there. But I would say me and Landstorm,
and I would say that because we were so polar opposite and a little tidbit
um nine to eleven happened. We were traveling together, we were on raw
together and uh This was pre cell again, two thousand and one, you
know, nine to eleven. You have to remember pre cell phones. We
got a call from Lance's mother at some hotel we were staying in Texas,
maybe Lance to him his wife or something where they were where we were staying.
Lance's mom calls the hotel room, the hotel. You know, we're
sleeping. It's like eight thirty nine, you know, seven thirty in the
morning, whatever, and she calls the hotel room and she's like, Lance,
you know, turn on the television. Look, you know, And
we turned on the TV and we still catch the second plane hitting the tower.
Oh and um, you know, all that craziness happened. And then
of course, you know, I called my you know, we get situated.
So we're in Texas and we have to drive. We had to make
ww had to make a decision, you know, how do we go from
because all the flights, if you remember, all flights in America were canceled
for a long time. Now he's from Calgary, I'm from Connecticut. We're
stuck in Texas with a rental car, not knowing how we're going, you
know what I mean, not knowing how we're getting home, and after we
get some information, WWE tells us we're in Houston as a matter of fact,
because Houston was supposed to be the next day is back down and this
is all shut out his hometown. Yeah yeah, but anyways, long story
short, ww wanted us to drive from Texas to Atlanta, so it took
so we kind of had to make the decision because we had no other way,
right, there were no flights. You know, it's nine to eleven.
Everything is shut down for a long time. So Ants and I drove
cross country from Houston, Texas to Atlanta, Georgia, and he had to
put up with me. And I'm listening to and I'm all in my I
love emo and that kind of music. I'm listening to Lincoln Park Hybrid Theory,
just lasting landstorm out of the car smoking weed and he hates weed.
He hates drugs and alcohol. And it was just a wild time. So
that was like probably one of the strangest, odd couple weeks of tragedy and
comedy. God there was a camera on that trip anyways, But yeah,
I digressed. That was a that was a wild one. Can I can
I give a quick sidebar? Is the day that nine to eleven happened.
I lived in San Diego where the planes left from. I used to run
an auto garage in San Diego, and the night manager hated cleaning up mechanics
because he wanted to raise and the owner of the place wouldn't give him a
raise, so he would just leave a mess. And I'm a manager who's
kind of like running everything. So I get there. The garage is a
mess. I'm just like, and I'm right on the Pacific Coast Highway,
like across the street is about three acres of sand and then the ocean.
At six o'clock in the morning, I think, if I can remember correctly,
and I'm like, this place is a mess. I can't stand this,
you know. So I just start cleaning up and I put on the
radio and they're playing Blondie Rapture, No Joke Blondie, and I'm like kind
of beebop into it because I get down with the little discilly though all of
a sudden it is a great song. They announced that the first plane had
hit the tower, and I'm like, what the heck is going on?
And it's going through everything and they're talking. Now. This is way back
when they would still do blimps that would go down the whole ocean, like
the whole coastline of the ocean, okay. And so I remember that morning's
blimp. Are you ready for this one? It was a black XFL blimp.
It's heading south okay. And I just looked at it and I was
like, is that real? I was like, what is that? You
know? And then while they're talking about they announced the second one gets hit.
That's when I go down and you have all these health joggers in San
Diego and the Pacific Coast Highway. I was like, guys, go home,
we're under attack. Something weird's happening. By the time I walked back
up to the garage, they're announcing you know, the Pentacon everything else really
crazy. And so I remembered I would always see those blimps go down to
the south side towards Mexico, turning burning come back. I never saw that
blimp come back. Now. My roommate in the time was in the Marine
Corps, Sergeant Michael Elwood, and I called him and he's like, we're
on lockdown. It's like okay. And the next call was from my sister
whose husband used to be military too, and I didn't even know how she
got my work number. I mean, this was rotary, guys, this
was mat this was Burth cell phones. So I'll keep this really clean and
polished. But um, we closed everything down that day left and I got
home and we had a roommate in His name was Damon, and he said,
this was the first time that the San Diego Union Tribune had done I
think a second edition since the end of World War two, or maybe the
whole war in Korea. And he's like, I bought one for everybody,
and the first page was that XFL blimp waited and take him down on the
beach. And I still have it at my father's house. Understand, I
guarantee you most people don't understand what that means. So continue to get home
and so I feel bad. You don't understand the gravity of that. Don't
second printing and all that. That's a big deal that you know it was,
it was, it was all you know, print print was big back
then. It was. It was a crazy time then. But anyway,
so you're stuck on the road, You're stuck trying to get back. So
you've got you and Lance going to two different directions, and this is pre
having to have passports to go into Canada Mexico. So how did you guys
slit? You know? And how did I could imagine the costs we made?
We bothing ate the costs a ourselves. We stayed on the road literally
and whatever however many shold there were between Houston and Atlanta. But that being
said, we made it to Atlanta, um and we uh, you know,
we went to raw on Monday night and we went live again because Vince
we you know how Vince was, he goes we did because it was supposed
to be Thursday was supposed to be SmackDown on Houston and we had to cancel
that. But the next Monday and you can go look it up when we
get off with this h the nine to eleven after Atlanta, I was in
Atlanta, Georgia the one after and after at nine to eleven in Atlanta,
we flew home. And I'll never I'll never forget flying into a JFK because
I live up in the New York area, always flying into JFK or to
work were a Bradley and flying into JFK, dude, there was it was
not a plane in the sky, and the airports were empty, and it
was just like it was the most It was wild, bro, it was
a wild It was scary and I you know, just to get back home,
you know, just being out there for soul. Those are the things
when people don't appreciate when you're out there on the road. We all assume
everything's going to be all right. When you leave your house to go perform
for a crowd, for anyone, for a promotion, for for a TV
taping, for anything, you think you know you get back home safely.
That was one time you never knew if you're going to get back home safe.
And it almost became secondary to get back home safe because you have to
worry about all the show must go on because then then Vinny Man has to
get a show off on Monday to atlant You know, it's just wild.
It's wild times. Never forget it. Speaking of things that are wild,
and speaking of plane rides, I have a question, did you think you
were gonna did you think you were gonna die? Plane ride from Hell?
No? No, on the plane ride from Hell? No, of course
it was no. No, it was just that was more like animal house
fun. Yeah, yeah, that's seen the dark side. That's just like
yeah, it was. That's just crazy. It was a big deal because
everybody made it a big deal because it's like that never been publicized. But
that's that's all the time, dude. That was like a Friday. So
that's okay, that's that's that's a little a lot of my rounds. So
let's talk about the twilights of ECW and the segue to which you have you
a career after being you know, basically busted down to UFA USWA and then
you know, making a name in ECW and then thinking well I'm going to
have a chance here and then all of a sudden you have the X Hoc
thing. Yeah, I mean it was. It was a great opportunity.
I knew. I thought that when I went back to Vince for the X
Factor thing, that it was going to work out. It really did.
I thought we could. You know, again, this is the middle of
the Attitude era, so you know there's a lot of expectations, a lot
of you know, businesses at an all time high. Um. But it
was, you know, it was just I I honestly don't even know what
I think. A lot of it was just doing to happen the way it
was, Um, X Pod had a lot of demons at the time.
Um, he had he had heat with me management coming out of DX.
They were trying to find something for him, you know, And I don't
think he was really happy with doing an X Factor. That's just me.
I mean, even though we're boys, I think from a business perspective though,
he wanted to be bigger up, the higher up on the card.
So you know, it was just you know, again, it was it
was you know, so much was going on, and what we don't talk
about is is again the end of WCW had so much to play because we're
also dealing with now we went from ECWWWE, WCW to now WWE all in
a couple of months. So now we went from one hundred and twenty full
time jobs in wrestling to like fifty full time jobs in wrestling. All was
within a couple of months. And I was just at that point I knew
what was going on. I was just happy to have had a job,
and I think all of us were. Again, who who changed your image
from the you know, the shorts over the tights to the telling well because
of Steve Washston had short it was again I went back to being the WWF
thing. It was. We don't care what happened in ECW that was a
niche product. Um, you know, we have another guy wearing gene shorts
and by the way, he happens to be bald, and uh, you
guys are a tag team. So he didn't tell me to do it,
but I suggest that you, you know, get some matching tights. So
what do you do right, you're trying to play ball, you know,
I mean, could you nest your look a little bit more and had like
something a little bit more flash here, because I know, like what I
felt was like in both Jerry Lynn were out like outright buried. And I
hate to say, I hate to say it like that, but that's my
opinion. I think. I think I don't think it was meant to be
like you're buried, but it just showed that we were something else. We
weren't staked and sizzle. We weren't necessarily about the look. We were about
the product. We were about the end result being the matches where they were
looking for. You know, how do we present this? You know,
it's again it's a WWE presentation, you know, and it's what it is,
you know, to me at that point in that era, it frustrated
me the most because you were really one of my favorite Russells and to just
watch you kind of play a lackey role. It camp like it kills me.
It did, it did, But I don't want to ignite your temper.
I'm just saying the way that's about the presentation of you and when they
did that raw where you're walking in and like x Pock and Albert are making
fun of you, and I'm like, Matt Blum might be a great trainer
and a gentle guy. He's never putting in a seat. They could say
New Japan, but really he's never put this in the seat you put seeds
you sole pay per views for ecw xpot as a different entity did help do
that, but he never really did anything as far as what you did for
an upstart promotion and what you did for your mental appisode of changing your character.
He always played. He went from Lightning Kid one, two, three,
Kid six x pot a haircut, But besides a haircut, did he
evolve? You learn different matches, you learn different styles, And trust me,
I'm not looking for anybody. If they want residual heat, we'll just
get more listeners. So go ahead, yell at me. I don't care.
But when it comes down to brass packs and baseball batch, which I
haven't said yet this show, is the fact that you were the performer on
a group. I mean, Xbox still had his athleticism, but he had
channel changing heat and that's what killed you. And what is the term that
we know in wrestling today, it's XPOC heat. I'm not putting those words
in your mouth. I'm putting those words in my mouth and I'm gonna say
that. And Albert couldn't draw. He couldn't draw a turn if he I
mean he couldn't draw. F livee he had a turn. No, it's
just the truth, no, and it is what it is. But again,
when you're in the WWE, they make you believe it's you just you
know, it's it's like, dude, when you're outside of the bubble,
it's one thing. When you're inside, it's like two different worlds. Man.
They make you believe, like if they could tell you that is blue,
you'll believe it's blue, Like literally sh is blue, Like they'll like,
you'll buy into it. The guys that are at the end of WWE
are so brainwashed, especially at this time, So I don't blame anybody,
It's just it was. It was the nature of the beast man, you
know, That's all I could say. So when you look back at the
careers, what's part what year are you most fond about with WWE? Yes,
nineteen ninety five. Honestly, Aldo, Aldo was actually the best part
of my career because as far as no not part of my part of my
WWF WWE experience because I was learning so much. I was traveling the world
literally wrestling so many great guys opponents, learning so much. Ninety five to
ninety six were the breakthrough years for me in the WWE, and now I
will I will not you know, Budge from that, I think that was
still the best for me. And if you look if you actually look back
and do the research, like on you know the TV shows Superstars, Wrestling
Challenge, Raw, you'll see that Aldo kind of you know, he was
a good little mid card act. But it was fun for me. It
was really fun in a great time. You know, I hold that in
hybrid card more so now than I did maybe even five years ago. As
I look back, you know, that's good to hear that learning experiences.
Yeah, go ahead, Mike, No, no, I think that that.
So after how how were you approached about being released or or quitting?
What what exactly happened there as far as you can say, as far as
okay, we got a part ways, this isn't working. You can change
my character. Well, I'm talking about the end of your your w W
E run when not well not two thousand and six, but like the two
thousands, when they brought you back for the alliance. So, um,
it was right before Christmas two thousand and three. Um, it was just
a very stone cold conversation where we you know, you know, thank you
for your service, kind of we don't need you anymore. You know.
It was literally like a week or two before Christmas and Johnny all and you
know it's like okay, and how need you to keep the straight faced you?
I don't. I don't think I told my wife at least for a
month after that, because I didn't know how to break it to her,
you know. So yeah, wow, wow, I don't like you even
go there. I'm sorry, sir, I did not need to. So
you briefly came back in six right for the second the ECW reboot, And
how'd you feel about ECW watered down. Um I thought for as always,
you always think for a minute that you may have a chance, especially though
after that Break One Night Stand pay per view. You know, it's amazing.
And if that's the thing, like you have, you literally have what
it takes to give the people what they want. Why not give the people
what they want? Why you have it right there? We were, we
produced it, we did it. Why not continue? It's it's ego,
It's that bullet. It's that it's a hit that makes you crazy. It's
like why, you know what I mean. It's like you could literally the
greatest pay per view in the world like that, and then like next week,
oh, we're back to being nobody, you know what I mean.
It's just they flex their power, they flex their muscle, and that's where
it's like you almost got to say I'm done. Ye they'll always be that
way, and they'll always be that way. It'll always be the w League.
Okay, So let's talk to your post WWE career then, So you're
gone now two thousand and six is gone. And what I want to know
is, like you have to look at what is becoming a modern day wrestling.
You talked about going down to Sean Michael's school, even though it was
earlier in time. You're seeing people like Daniel Brian coming up. So who
did you see as prodigies in this young era in the early two thousands,
besides the Ohio Valley wrestling class, because you had people like Punk who came
through there later, but he wasn't part of that. And you had deal
O Brown, who was deal Brown, correct me if I'm wrong, trained
with reckless youth in the backyard. Um, so, how many prodigies did
you see? And how many? Go ahead? I want to hear your
anymore. I think we will. And again I'm not s And again this
is also my how do I explain that sometimes you just shut down right?
And I a lot of times I don't remember, because sometimes you just shut
down out of just out of just mental health, you know. I think
I shut down after that. I didn't really pay attention to be honest,
to be really honest with you, I'm not gonna lie. I just shut
down. I don't know what it was and what it is. I just
knew that professional wrestling was never going to be the same as it was in
the nineties. I know something was happening, something was changing. I don't
know, I don't quite know what it is, but you know, it
just became it became less about I was We were always taught about tradition,
about the value of being a veteran and stuff like that, the older guys
and learning your craft. It became less and less than that. It became
more about sensationalism, more about high spots, more about getting over on the
Internet. And then I guess we never saw the Internet coming. And that's
one thing the pro wrestling guys on top never did really see was how important
the Internet would be, both in the making and the dismantling of the old.
So, you know, it's just I don't think I was ready.
So to me, after like two thousand and six, two thousand and seven,
the business kind of the only way I could do it, the only
I think way I could come to terms with it, If that makes any
sense, That does make sense. Do you catch Janny list In today?
Do you watch? Yes? Oh yeah, I've watched. I do a
podcast weekly with Vince russo ever since its inception, I do an aw Dynamite
review show. I've done every single episode of Dynamite, reviewed it and it's
up on his Patreon and I don't even have the right information to plug it.
But if you go on Vince Russo's patreon, I've literally him and I
have reviewed number one through whichever is coming on Wednesday. Um so that's my
that's my introduction to today's wrestling. And I do watch I watch it a
lot. I don't want. I watch AW actually more than WWE, which
is surprising. But I don't do it because I have, I because I
want to. I do it because it's my job. I know ww is
doing great, and actually, to be honest and to be fair, wrestling
is at a bit of a renaissance because ratings are up, attendance is up,
money is up, so something is happening. Um you know, so
I don't know necessarily what that may be, but I think right now is
a great opportunity in wrestling to do something, you know, because the wrestling
is pretty hot, you know there it shows in the ticket sales, shows
in the in the viewership, a weekly pay per view buys, et cetera.
So you know, it's a good time to be a wrestling man.
It should just show the merchandise that I buy. So oh for sure,
well, you know, speaking of merchandise. So the only wrestling thing I
own is when I to you on Wade Keller's podcast about twenty sixteen, twenty
seventeen, I was holding my just incredible doll that I got from my think
ninety nine. But they like the bad boys. Yes, that's it's it's
my doll. No, it's my I should figure whatever and that I didn't
know what to ask you so and which today I think I've made up for
that. But um I asked you, like, why do they have the
garbage cane of the cane? You're like, I don't know, like this
day. Oh, speaking to which, speaking to which, my nephew,
my nephew Maverick, who works on the show quite a bit for a colius,
he would like to know if you still have that cane or any cane
from ECW is kind of like a trophy. I do not. I hate
to say it, I don't have. I really don't have my fend Rebelli
at all, unfortunately, you know, but no, it is what it
is. I don't think I have anything original, that's for sure. I
do want to know about your induction to the New England Progressing Hall of fame
and or nine. Okay, how was that brought up to you? And
how did they make you feel? And who was in your class? I
have no idea, I really know. I know it was brought up to
me, you know, almost as and and that's one thing that's why I
don't take things like that seriously. It was brought up to me almost as
a gimmick, like as a book, and you know, so it was
just another way to slap a name on an event and to get you to
participate. So again I'm you know, I'm grateful, I'm glad that they
thought of me in that way, but again, it's just it's just another
and that's the way they killed the business, is like marketing things that aren't
necessarily real, because it certainly wasn't real, you know what I mean.
I got a little plaque, which is great, looks great on my wall,
but it really never meant you know what I mean, Like it's not
real, you know, And I hate to say that, but it's the
best that's still to be recognized for what it's nice. But I mean there's
nothing, really, I have nothing to say to it, because it's like
that wasn't a part of it, you know what I mean, It's like
literally an indie promoter Mark, It's like, oh, let's bringing just Incredible,
fantom is she and he'll be induct you know what I mean. It's
like there's no real there's nothing, you know what I mean, There's no
heart to it. You know, Yeah, I get it. It's it's
it's more name credibility, and it's like here's here's here's here. Here's some
of the stuff that that I will share about you with my relationship with Justin
Incredible, which is basically not really all that much, it's true, but
a few years ago on Twitter, because I was a fan of his,
I followed him on Twitter and he had asked about maybe reinventing himself and getting
back and wrestling. So we started messaging each other on Twitter about if you
were to get back out there, what you would do, and I had
given some suggestions and you were very compliant with it and very receptive. Receptive,
not compliant, which I thought was really cool. And so a lot
of times when I throw out when we would do shows, I would always
tag Justin and because I was really proud of the fact that he would actually
talk to me. You know, so it means a lot that you would
actually do the show and talk to us and understand where we're coming from is
the fact we want to give you a chance to talk about your career without
it being just all like digging at other people and things like that, because
that's not what it was about. This is why you made yourself who you
are and you didn't sleep, you know, in a van eating pork and
beans for three weeks, you know, and hoping to gain five pounds just
because you didn't want to do this. And that's what people need to know
about. And any wrestler can say that, but does it really mean anything
until you actually hear the story of somebody And this today is supposed to be
your story and what we want from you at Wrestle Magic and more important than
we podcast. So I want to thank you very much for being on the
show, but there's a lot of things we want to do before we sign
off today. Rocky, do you have the battery? Do so? Again?
This was an X was a into you to the person um. I
would like to know in your arrested career, what was the most which move
or that you would least like to take move or bump that you least like
to take a finisher going through a table, kendle stickshot chair shot. What
was your least favorite. Oh that's a good one. Um, we just
loved it all because it was hard. I hate it all. I hated
most. Um God, anything where like the back of my head hit the
map, that was the worst. I always ahead. I was concussion prone,
so like any time I didn't get a good whip blash, I'd be
knocked. So anything that was not you know, not me, like power
bombs or anything then go backwards is no good. So I'd say those.
Okay. And earlier I mentioned that you were listening to Lincoln Park on your
some of your road trips. What are the bands music you like listening to.
Oh god, I'm very old school sound Garden, Um, Chris cornell
Um, Jesus. I just there's so much. I just like rocking the
ball, dude. I just I mean, I know I'm not doing it
into any service, but I just like all kinds of nineties stuff. Pearl
Jam, you know, food fighters, stuff like that. Just you know,
you know, stuff of that kind of generation for sure. Okay,
okay, And with you doing your aw reviews and now as part of your
job, who could you see jumpionship next? Or who would you think could
benefit from jumping from a WWWW or vice versa without speculating contract tampering. Please,
I think I think m JF would be great to go. I think
time is now whether they've come up, because he's not going to have that
all the time. You know the position he is in. He's hot now
and he's just one stemp away from killing it on his own, so he
needs to go now that's seen. You see anybody from WW that you think
you'd benefit from talking to AW? No? Because because only because only because
I think that they you know, they're they're already in a good place being
WWE. So to go to AW would be kind of a you know,
look, we have Claudio, we have some more. You have so many
guys that have come over, and nobody's really done to shoot it. So
I think it's harder. It's it's easier to be an AW starter main' getting
WWE than a WWE started making an AW which sounds weird, it sounds like
the other way around. But I think I think right now you can argue
that that that could be different. I think right now a W very much
benefit from from some big star from AW or from w W comp. I
just don't know who that would be. And they have to do it right
because they've botched a bunch of boss. Okay, okay, we know you're
a great talented wrestler. You have any other talents that you that you do?
Um, great chef now you want? Yeah? You so? Yeah,
I'm a good cook for sure. What's your favorite dish to to that
is perfect in front of somebody? That's a trap? There's really uh,
I don't know. Um, how about this? What is your wife favorite
thing for you to maker? There you go, um, chicken corn on
blue I guess that'd be a good one for sure. I make a mean
seafood and chicken gumbo of a rice or or or and then I'll accent the
him with some sliced okra and or deep fried sliced oker excuse me, and
then hit the rim of the bowl with some cayenne pepper. Oh that's nice.
I like that. I like that a lot, very nice. Not
a keying contest, but you know, of course that's between work and the
kids, kids in life. You know this at this podcast, these is
what I do for fun? What is just incredible? Do for fun?
Nothing? Literally nothing I enjoyed doing. God, not a goddamn thing to
me to have a day. We're just sitting in my room and play Xbox.
Brother, We're good, right, that was my day today. That's
pretty much what I did on day today. After I could attest to that,
I think you could feel the vibe when I'm like, brother, I'm
just I'm I'm so chill, dude. If I'm not working at the restaurant,
I'm pretty chill. So you know, I just I love I loved
me some just staying all the time being nothing. How old are your boys
now? By the way, Oh jeez, I got my twenty three year
old graduated colleagues last year. He's working in the finance sector in New York
for a Rotbridge firm. That's Nick. Nineteen year old Jenna. She's in
New Jersey working after school. And Christian is sixteen. He still lives at
home. It's going to be a junior at Kennedy High School in Waterbury.
And he's chilling too. So you know, all the kids are doing great.
It's amazing. This is this has been one of I think one of
our best interviews that we've ever had, because it's probably one of our first
or second interviews. As far as the whole channel goes, I know that
there's been matt Our channel host, the person who's put everything together. He's
all done, I don't. I think Chris van Fleet and maybe a select
few others. And if it was before or after my time, it wasn't
really much. And Rocky and I had some stuff lined up for our last
show on androgyny in wrestling with a Dream Street. However, Adrian's recovering right
now from something, and so this it means a lot to us, okay,
And I can't bow my head enough. I can't tell you that that
to talk to somebody that I was a big fan I'm still a big fan
of and to have the relationship that we could talk back and forth is so
amazing. And when I first approached rock with this, what do you think
about Rock Superstar? Honestly I was lost for words. Um, it just
came out of nowhere. I was unexpected. I had to do about half
of the day's worth of research to you know, watch clips and just figure
out what I wanted to ask ask you justin and then I just I'm still
here picking myself, wondering if that when it is over, this is what
you're going to be real, So right, well, thank you, thank
you. I'm glad it worked out for everybody. It worked out for me.
I had a great time. Man. You guys made this so much
fun and made an effortless So thank you. All right, problem at all?
Sign off. Anything you want to plug justin just not really just uh,
you know, real basic stuff. Just follow me both on Twitter and
Instagram at PJ Pollaco. And if you're interested in any of my pro wrestling
t shirts, going over to pro wrestling Tis dot com. Backslash just incredible
and that is all question. Are you taking bookings or anything like that,
or is anything or anyway, yes, okay, if anybody's interested in booking
me for a for podcasts, for pro wrestling, appearances, for comic cons,
signings, anything, just email me over at Polaco Peter polac op E
t A. R. Seventy three at gmail dot com. That's Polocko Peter
seventy three at gmail dot com and I'll get back to you right away.
It sounds like a blast. Now everybody knows me. I'm the gardener Michael
Gross, I'm one of your favorites. Well, I hope I'm one of
your favorites because I just brought you some wrestling magic. And what I would
like you guys to do is follow me at one four four Captain on Twitter,
and if you can find me on Facebook or Instagram, good luck you
find out a look a lot like see. I'm punk and justin. After
we go off the air, if you will hang on for a couple of
minutes, I would appreciate it. Rocky T the producer, tell us about
yourself. Bro, you know me, guys super Fox of Houston, Texas
at Rocky's Clubs or seven on Twitter. Remember, guys, you can go
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Rocky T. Follow me on Twitter, send me a follow, send me
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