WEBVTT

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WWE Podcast Family, Welcome to a
special edition episode of Wrestle Magic here on

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the w w E Podcast, where
we are local, we are stateside,

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and we are international. It's me, It's me, It's Rocky T and

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I'm about to hit it out of
the park with the Louisville Slugger once again,

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the Captain Michael Gross. This is
a Wrestle Magic first an interview.

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Not only will this episode be good, not only will this episode be considered

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one of the best, but it
will simply be just incredible. We have

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a living wrestling legend here with today. He is a hardcore icon. He

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is an ECW heavyweight champion. My
goal. Please introduce our guest of honor.

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Ladies and gentlemen, let me talk
to you about the first time I

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ever set eyes on this man.
It was on the four o'clock East ESPN

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time slot. It was for the
USWA. I saw this skinny guy reminded

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me of myself, to be honest
with you, because I weigh a buck

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forty soaken what and I watched what
he could do, and I watched how

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he could perform, and I said, man, this guy is really really

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great. And throughout his career I
followed him from territory to territory for what

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he was doing wrestling wise, through
magazines and dirt sheets and all the stuff

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from the old days, because that's
how we did it before the internet.

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And it was amazing and it was
fun. And then one day he reinvented

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his character and it blew my socks
off and it blew my mind. So

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without further ado, I want to
introduce everybody to our new friend of the

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show, a man that I wanted
to be at one point in the nineties,

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a man that I think has had
a great wrestling career, an underrated

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wrestling career, and we're going to
get to know today all about his career.

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And that is the one at only
mister just incredible. How you doing

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justin I'm doing great, guys,
Thank you so much for having me.

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This is really fun. This is
an awesome opportunity, and I'm grateful to

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you guys. I'm just happy to
be here man, looking forward to the

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conversation. That's awesome And hopefully maybe
in the future, We've got some other

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shows lined up for our personal part
of the channel, Wrestle Magic, but

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maybe Matt with our actual whole program, our whole channel, WWE podcast dot

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com could use you in the future, and we could talk more about that

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sometime off camera now that we've gotten
to know each other a little bit better.

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So there's something I want to ask
about you, and maybe Rocky you

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could lead it, but if you
don't mind, I might ask that first

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question. Absolutely take it on,
all right? So what was that match?

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What was that wrestler? Who was
it that made you say, I'm

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a ways up a pair of boots? Um? It had to be.

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I mean I was. I was
always a wrestling fan. I think I

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started to get the bug, the
wrestling bug with the startup Holcimnia. Really.

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I was born and raised in Waterbury, Connecticut, and we used to

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get Channel wwwour Channel nine, which
was the big New York City station that

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kind of migrated to Connecticut, and
I remember watching I remember the day,

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I still believe it or not,
I still had We had two TVs back

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then in the household. I was
maybe eight or nine. I don't know

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how old. I know as a
kid we had a big color TV in

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the living room and I had an
old black and white TV, which I

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know many people don't even know what
that is, but I had a black

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with the rabbit ears in my room
and I watched Hulk Hogan pin the iron

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cheek to start his iconic WF heavyweight
title ring on Saturday morning, and that's

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what gotten loving wrestling. But uh, forward to you know, fast forward

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in six seven years after that,
I saw Ricky the Dragon Steamboat and Rick

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Flair on wtvs UM and uh,
you know, and their feud and Ricky

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steam Would obviously winning the world title
from Rick Flair. Got to see them

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alive on that nineteen eighty nine tour
when they came to New Haven, Connecticut

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on the House show run, and
that's just that's what really cemented me as

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like, yo, I could do
this, um I you know, I

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wanted to do this. It was
just everything that was right with the world

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was that, you know, it
just it seemed it was just so natural,

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so perfect. It just was everything
I wanted in life. And that

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was a storytelling in the ring of
a bad guy like Rick Flair and a

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baby face like Ricky Steamboat and the
moves that they performed the ring to get

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us to feel that way. So
I saw the art form, I saw

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the beauty of it, and there
was no turning back since that stuff,

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Yeah, that was it. Wow. Well, like me and most fans,

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I assume we know you from ECW
and your time in WWE. But

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one of the points of this podcast
is to go beyond what we think we

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know, So we would like to
go beyond those days, which I widely

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starts with before those days. So
we wanted to start from the beginning of

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your career, which would be training. How did you end up training with

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stut Heart and Keith Heart and land
Storm. Sure, I was, you

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know again, I was always a
huge fan. And after I graduated high

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school in nineteen ninety one. I
graduated Holy Cross High School in Waterbury,

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Connecticut in nineteen ninety one. And
the whole point of me going to Catholic

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high school, and it was a
it was predominantly you know, a college

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prep ready school. You know,
my parents had to pay out a pocket

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for me to go there, you
know, just wanting the best for me,

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you know, ship like that.
And after high school I was like,

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well, I you know, I
really didn't know what I wanted to

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do. So I took a year
off after I had graduated, and like

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a lot of kids, I just
got a small job I was working at

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a grocery store here in the Northeast, a very popular one. But you

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know, I think it was like
stopping the shop. I don't know if

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anybody's familiar with it, but I
was just, yeah, I was just

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a bag boy, you know,
just you know, picking up carts and

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behind the parking lot, you know, bagging groceries. But on my fifteen

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twenty minute break back then we had
wrestling magazines, right, that was like

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the big deal for fans who really
loved the business. And so, you

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know, in my break I would
get a Coca cola and a bag of

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chips or whatever, and I'd go
read magazines for the fifteen twenty minutes I

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had. And I remember going to
the back of one of these magazines and

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I gotta remember, this is pre
internet, you know, there's no information.

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Wrestling was a little bit capabe still, you know. And it was

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a big article, not an article, It's a big one page out on

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the very back of the magazine.
It said, dare to be Great,

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you know, a Heart Brothers training
camp, and it just had this all

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this. You know, if you
want to be a wrestler, if you

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dream to be great, you know, here's the phone number, here's the

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address. Give us, you know, give us a call, write us

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a letter, et cetera. So
I actually, uh, you know,

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got very excited, got the number
down, you know, got the whole

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thing. I think I ripped it
out of the magazine, to be honest,

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and I called and I got to
talk to Bruce Hartum, you know,

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and he's like, well, kid, you know, we run a

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camp every summer for eight weeks.
You know, you got to come on

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over to Calgary and you trained for
eight weeks and at the end, if

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you, you know, if you
could finish this camp, whatever, you'll

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you know, you will be trained
to be a pro wrestler. And back

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then it was very different than it
is today. So I mean I literally,

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you know, begged my family.
I think my mom helped me take

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out a personal loan to go out
to Calgary to train and uh and get

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a flight and everything. We coordinated
everything, and summer of nineteen ninety two,

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you know, there I was getting
on a plane to go to Calgary

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all you know. But but the
thing about going to Calgary, Alberta,

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Canada, is I live in Connecticut, which is like on the map.

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Let's just say New York City,
an hour from New York City all the

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way across to the Pacific Northwest,
pretty much across the world in my opinion,

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you know, because I was a
kid, I'd never traveled really before

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to go to Calgary to wrestling school, not known anybody, really taking a

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chance, you know what I mean, with no money in my pocket,

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not help any right, you know, and because you just thought, well,

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you know, in our idea,
it was like, well they're taking

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this money, they'll take care of
our boy, you know what I mean.

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We were so naive it's not really
understanding what this all was in telling.

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So I mean I literally got there
and we got uh, we got

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thrust into this insane world of of
pro wrestling right from the start. I

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mean, it was it was crash. It was crude. I remember we

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stayed and not just me, but
the rest of the class, which all

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which ended up being eight altogether,
but by the end of it, only

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two ended up graduating, and which
is myself and this other gentleman out of

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Toronto, Ontario, Canada named Brett
Farrell who still wrestles once in a while

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but never really made it big.
And yeah, and it was it was

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just wild. I was staying above
a strip club, uh, you know,

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outside of Calgary, in some small, little dingy city like literary classy.

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I was literally sleeping on a mattress
in some little leg Dare I say

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crack house? I mean seriously,
you know where strippers would stay like after

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they were done with their sets,
before they moved on to the next city,

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you know, because it was one
of those places where you know,

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girls would travel through and then go
on to the next place. So I

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was literally staying at some like shack
um. You know. All I had

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was you know, a mattress,
my food, you know, whatever little

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perishables I had. We had a
grocery store slash gasoline station where you can

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get like chif boy r D or
a canned soup. You know. That

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was like a big deal. There
was no McDonald's. There was no because

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we're literally in the middle of nowhere, you know, because it's not Calgary

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is a huge city, but we're
thirty forty minutes away from Calgary with no

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no, no, nothing. So
it was just like, you know,

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talk about welcome to reality, you
know what I mean. And but again

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that was that was part of what
I could, you know, consider paying

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your dues, you know what I
mean. So was you being one of

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the two people who graduated from your
fast, It was that satisfying enough or

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more because you were one of the
only two out of your fast? Or

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was it a fine enough just knowing
that you made it out of training in

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Caregary over there with the hearts.
It was just the fact that imased I

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mean, it was so wild,
dude. I mean, I had so

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much. I didn't know what to
expect. I didn't understand. You gotta

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understand something when you see the business. And again, now everybody knows kind

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of the financials. People know what
you have to do to make it in

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the business. They you know,
you hear all this guy's getting X amount

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of money, guarantee whatever, blah
blah blah. Back then, you literally

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knew nothing about nobody. There was
none of that was getting exposed. I

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was literally just an ant in a
huge world of guys and gals trying to

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make it. Nobody had any idea
where I was. It was actually the

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most dangerous thing my parents would have
ever could ever imagine letting me do.

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I mean, I could have died
out there. Nobody would have ever known

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I was literally no cell phones,
no numbers to call. I was calling

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like America on pay phones, you
know, collect calls, like trying to

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get my mom and dad. Like
there was like I was literally out there

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in the wild, you know what
I mean, just again trying to make

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it. It was just it's it's
something I would have never you know it,

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known what I know today, I
would have never taken those risks or

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chances. I just had this weird
idea and believed that if I worked hard,

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it would work for me, and
somehow, by the grace of God

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or whatever the hell it is.
You know, I'm not very religious,

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but by whatever it is, I
made it. And I got very fortunate

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because it was very rough, man. I mean, you know it was

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there was no plans that, there
was no map laid out for anybody to

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really make it in this world,
you know, and you get to learn

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it the hard way because I really
had no idea how it was. You

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know, as a kid going into
it, I had no idea that that's

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what I was signing up for.
You know, may I sidebar for a

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second, So I got to know
what was the scariest moment, the fact

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that you actually made it to one
of the two that graduated, or the

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fact that the next day, now
your career starts, and what do you

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do, because I problem, I'm
gonna guess that there was no product placement

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with your with you know, it's
not like NXT where you go up to

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w W. You're Ohio Valley with
their old ties and things like that.

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So it's like, okay, this
is the days before agents, except for

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your mega stars like Hogan Flair.
You know, Lawlor could handle his own

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things. He owned the territory and
obviously some of the territories dying because you

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and I are that old, and
Rocky's right on our coattails, and so

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we got to see a lot of
that. So I want to know,

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and unless I'm getting in the way
of any questions that Rocky has for our

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listeners, what was that that moment
when you're like, okay, I have

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to leave Calgary, now what do
I do? You really had no there

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was nothing for you. I mean
I remember having my first ten matches.

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They started a new promotion out there
called Rocky Mountain Pro Wrestling. I had

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not you know, I not made
any money at all, you know,

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basically spending money everywhere I can I
was starving. I remember going up there

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two hundred and twenty five pounds,
gassed up all, you know, jacked

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up a steroided up, you know, as nineteen years old, looked great,

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And a couple of months later,
I'm like one hundred and eighty pounds.

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I dropped forty pounds almost immediately because
of now nutrition. And I remember

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the guy I was staying with was
one of the referees, and I was

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literally stealing a dollar fifty a day
from him Canadian, mind you, not

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even you as Canadian, stealing a
dollar fifty Canadian out of his change jar

207
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at that time to buy a gallon
of chocolate milk, and that would be

208
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the only I bought milk because I
knew that would be the only nutrients I

209
00:14:48.440 --> 00:14:50.720
can get my ProTeam, some kind
of vitamins and mineral you know what I'm

210
00:14:50.759 --> 00:14:56.559
saying, And that's all I'll have
for the day, because I you know,

211
00:14:56.559 --> 00:14:58.960
I've read a lot of wrestling books, and like Rocky, you can

212
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interjected any time. A lot of
wrestlers they talk about traveling in a van,

213
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eight people to a van, no
heater in the van. Everybody,

214
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you know, if you if you're
not in the driver passenger seat. You're

215
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all covered in blankets in the back
hoping that you know, you get the

216
00:15:13.720 --> 00:15:16.159
twenty dollars payoff to whatever city you
go to, and that's dedication to your

217
00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:20.639
craft and any of these You and
I both understand the businesses that were currently

218
00:15:20.679 --> 00:15:26.080
in us, mister Credible, and
it's we get sometimes these entitled people who

219
00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:30.039
don't understand what we went through.
And I never went through it like you.

220
00:15:30.120 --> 00:15:33.759
But I grew up very underprivileged,
not severely, but enough to where

221
00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:37.240
you know, I hated being poor, cold and hungry, and I never

222
00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:39.799
wanted to live my life like that. And you're here, you are living

223
00:15:39.799 --> 00:15:43.799
out your dream. Where were the
doubts? When did the doubts come before

224
00:15:45.080 --> 00:15:52.120
you started to see something? Um? I was so stupid that I almost

225
00:15:52.120 --> 00:15:56.840
didn't. I didn't really see any
of them. I just maybe it was

226
00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:03.320
I was just so innocent and I
wanted it so badly that I never saw

227
00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:06.919
the bad. Um. I don't
know what it was. Maybe I guess

228
00:16:06.919 --> 00:16:10.440
because I knew my parents. You
know, my parents weren't well off by

229
00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:14.279
any means, and I was lying
to them left and right about how I

230
00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:18.919
was doing. But you know,
I remember finally at one time having to

231
00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:23.080
cave in and ask me my dad
to Western Union me fifty dollars because I

232
00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:26.480
just had cracked and I needed,
you know, some money to eat,

233
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you know. And I was like, you know, and it was like,

234
00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:32.879
son, why didn't you ask me
beforehand? You know? I was

235
00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:34.720
just so proud and I wanted you
to feel you know, I wanted you

236
00:16:34.759 --> 00:16:37.879
to be proud of me. I
didn't want to have to ask you for

237
00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:41.720
anything, you know. And I
remember after sent me the money, I

238
00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:45.159
went to McDonald's and I had like
a you know, like a quarter pound

239
00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:49.600
of the cheese and fries and coke
and it was like cracked. I'm not

240
00:16:49.639 --> 00:16:55.519
trying to I'm just saying me cracks
was, and you know, and it

241
00:16:55.600 --> 00:16:57.840
was just like so amazing to eat
that. It was just like wow,

242
00:16:57.919 --> 00:17:00.279
real food. I did never wanted
to put that on them, you know

243
00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:04.480
what I mean. I just wanted
to always portray it as I'm doing.

244
00:17:04.519 --> 00:17:10.599
Okay, I'm well, I'm succeeding
in this venture, you know what I'm

245
00:17:10.599 --> 00:17:12.839
saying. Like, I didn't want
to to kind of break their hearts because

246
00:17:12.839 --> 00:17:15.039
they would have given me anything.
They would have gone to Caligary and picked

247
00:17:15.079 --> 00:17:18.799
me up. But I asked,
do you know what I mean? Yeah,

248
00:17:18.839 --> 00:17:22.440
but everybody want to do that to
them. I wanted to succeed on

249
00:17:22.519 --> 00:17:23.880
my own, you know. And
that was me at nineteen. You know,

250
00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:27.039
I just I hit balls that I
just don't have today. I wish

251
00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:32.000
I still had those balls. Yeah, you know, because you do a

252
00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:34.079
lot of you know, when you're
when you're in that mindset of trying to

253
00:17:34.119 --> 00:17:37.279
get that's unfortunately that's what it takes. But yeah, I was. I

254
00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:41.559
was just so ready to go at
that time. It was a great time,

255
00:17:41.799 --> 00:17:45.039
you know. At the end of
the day. Yeah, everybody who's

256
00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:48.359
out trying to follow a dream will
prove something, you know, wants to

257
00:17:48.599 --> 00:17:51.039
let the family know that they're doing
it on their own and they're okay.

258
00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:53.559
So you're definitely not the first person
or the last persons light of their parents

259
00:17:53.559 --> 00:17:57.559
about how well off they are un
pursuing their dreams. But on your way

260
00:17:57.599 --> 00:18:00.640
out of training and you say you
didn't Calgary was much of a plan or

261
00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:03.640
much of anything. Did you leave
with the ring name? And how did

262
00:18:04.119 --> 00:18:07.200
how did the just incredible name come
to being? Oh? Wow, well

263
00:18:07.359 --> 00:18:11.000
that's well, I didn't have a
ring name I did P J. Walker

264
00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:18.079
in Calgary. It was my first
match, and this is this is correct

265
00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:22.599
because it was in my book and
I remember just going through all the papers

266
00:18:22.599 --> 00:18:27.200
and everything that I had. My
first match was October sixteenth, which is

267
00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:33.480
my nineteenth birthday, October sixteenth,
nineteen ninety two, and I wrestled every

268
00:18:33.559 --> 00:18:38.400
week since then from October sixteenth,
nineteen ninety two till you know, ten

269
00:18:38.440 --> 00:18:42.920
weeks. That was my run in
Calgary. Then after that it was Christmas

270
00:18:42.920 --> 00:18:48.079
break and the promotion didn't run for
a couple of weeks. So I went

271
00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:51.319
back to Connecticut. You know,
my mom and dad got me a ticket

272
00:18:51.319 --> 00:18:56.759
to come back home. And it's
the beginning of nineteen ninety thirty. And

273
00:18:56.240 --> 00:19:00.440
I never ended up going back to
Calgary because there was really enough there.

274
00:19:00.519 --> 00:19:03.440
But again, mind you, I'm
in Connecticut now. All of my roots

275
00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:10.079
in professional wrestling are in Calgary.
I didn't know anybody in Connecticut. Again,

276
00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:15.799
no social media, no Internet,
everything's very different, and I had

277
00:19:15.880 --> 00:19:21.119
no connections here. I ended up
finding a couple of small, very small

278
00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:26.359
independent organizations just by kind of running
around and asking people in the gyms.

279
00:19:27.160 --> 00:19:30.759
You'd see something some you know,
find something in a paper somewhere or in

280
00:19:30.759 --> 00:19:34.000
a magazine. You'd take a trip
somewhere to go meet, you know,

281
00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:37.759
somebody who's running a show, you
know, try to connect with people.

282
00:19:38.519 --> 00:19:45.039
Nothing worked, So I think it
was March or April ninety three. The

283
00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:49.359
WWE back then, WWF had a
house show in New Haven, Connecticut,

284
00:19:49.559 --> 00:19:52.319
at a place where I had gone
many times in my childhood to watch the

285
00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:57.079
perform, you know, watch the
wrestle, and I went back backstage.

286
00:19:57.079 --> 00:20:00.599
I had my bag. In back
then, you were always taught because there

287
00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:04.359
wasn't so many like now, everybody's
a wrestler. There's like a million wrestlers,

288
00:20:04.880 --> 00:20:07.720
you know, and these kids,
like it's so different than it was

289
00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:12.880
back then. There were probably only
one hundred and fifty pro wrestlers in America

290
00:20:14.079 --> 00:20:18.960
period period. Now now there's probably
a thousand or more. Right that then

291
00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:23.319
there was like a third or not
even not even a third. So I

292
00:20:23.400 --> 00:20:26.000
went backstage. I had my bag
because you were always taught. If you're

293
00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:30.759
gonna go to a wrestling show,
you're not booked, bring your gear,

294
00:20:30.920 --> 00:20:33.799
God forbid, somebody doesn't show you
up, or somebody gets hurt, you

295
00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:37.839
know, if you're there visiting,
hanging out you know, you might get

296
00:20:37.839 --> 00:20:40.759
called up to the main stage.
So I went to I had the balls

297
00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:45.880
and the wherewithal to go to a
wwehouse show with my bag. I walk

298
00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:51.359
right backstage and I met Tony Garrilla, who was a long time what you

299
00:20:51.440 --> 00:20:56.119
called today producers. We called them
agents. Famous Tony Garria, one of

300
00:20:56.119 --> 00:21:00.440
the grades, you know what I
mean, former WWF Tag Team champion agent

301
00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:06.400
forever like he was there until the
after the Attitude era. You know,

302
00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:08.359
Tony's a great guy, still alive
today, lives in Florida, still a

303
00:21:08.359 --> 00:21:12.200
good friend. He's like, well, we don't need anybody today. I

304
00:21:12.319 --> 00:21:15.839
ran into him and you know,
thank you, sir for letting me hang

305
00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:18.440
out. He goes, just watch
the show, stay here, stay out

306
00:21:18.440 --> 00:21:22.079
of trouble. So, you know, he allows me backstage. I'm watching

307
00:21:22.119 --> 00:21:26.920
the show from the curtain. You
know, amazing experience. I got to

308
00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:30.079
shake hands and need a lot of
wrestlers. At the end, you know,

309
00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:34.279
everybody's packing up, the show's over, everybody's getting in their car to

310
00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:37.440
go out into the next town.
And I said, Sarah, thank you

311
00:21:37.519 --> 00:21:41.000
so much for the opportunity to just
come here and you know, watch the

312
00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:45.640
show and meet people. Etc.
You know, he's a real honor He

313
00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:48.240
goes, well, he goes,
We're starting a new show called Monday Night

314
00:21:48.279 --> 00:21:53.440
Broad and we need some extra talent
in Manhattan in the next couple of weeks

315
00:21:53.480 --> 00:21:59.599
where you be interested. And I'm
like, okay. So they were looking

316
00:21:59.599 --> 00:22:03.000
for job gay extras whatever you want
to call it, to start this new

317
00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:07.640
show that they were taping called Monday
Night Raw And it was an hour and

318
00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:12.400
a half away from my house and
you know, downtown Manhattan. But I'm

319
00:22:12.440 --> 00:22:15.160
from Connecticut, so it was a
quick drive. So for him, he

320
00:22:15.319 --> 00:22:18.720
was booking the extras. Hey,
this is one guy I could send down.

321
00:22:18.759 --> 00:22:22.000
You know, he's from the Hearts, he's from Calgary. He's probably

322
00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:23.839
pretty good. You know, He's
one of the guys I could use on

323
00:22:23.880 --> 00:22:27.799
that show. So that's how it
all got started. In my initial connection

324
00:22:29.240 --> 00:22:33.680
to the WWW as that one moment
of taking the you know, the chance

325
00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:40.400
of going backstage and just introducing myself. May I introduce introject for a check?

326
00:22:40.440 --> 00:22:44.240
And I started early bad, so
you have to take with me,

327
00:22:44.359 --> 00:22:48.920
Okay. I trip over my tongue
sometimes. Okay, So right around this

328
00:22:48.039 --> 00:22:52.359
time, like right before Ross started, because you and I both remember it

329
00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:56.359
as Monday night prime time back in
the old days. So you and I

330
00:22:56.400 --> 00:22:59.720
were obviously both big wrestling fans.
Rockey was, you know, coming up,

331
00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:03.880
And so the fact was, I
remember the Big Four, it was

332
00:23:03.039 --> 00:23:11.960
WWF, the NWA, it was
world class and basically Memphis. Yeah,

333
00:23:11.799 --> 00:23:15.759
you know that's and it like because
Florida was dying off pretty early eighty nine

334
00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:21.200
two. Yeah, And so I'm
a historian. I'm obviously I've never worked

335
00:23:21.200 --> 00:23:26.119
in the industry zone command or demand
respect like you do. But I have

336
00:23:26.200 --> 00:23:29.640
to imagine with your fresh eyes,
you're coming in and you're getting shot at

337
00:23:29.680 --> 00:23:33.720
what everybody calls take time right away, and you might have had, I

338
00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:37.279
think, my my perspective better shots
at some of those other territories. But

339
00:23:37.720 --> 00:23:44.440
you know, with with Dallas merging
with USWA and the AWA dying, because

340
00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:48.319
you and I both know by watching
ESPN all the time, so you had

341
00:23:48.319 --> 00:23:51.839
that USWA merger, so you had
what they thought would be a superpower.

342
00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:55.480
But you're like looking at this and
saying, Okay, well, I might

343
00:23:55.519 --> 00:23:59.359
be enhancement for now, but it's
for the best company in the world.

344
00:23:59.400 --> 00:24:02.720
So where did the go or did
you think, well, maybe I could

345
00:24:02.759 --> 00:24:04.640
get my toes and other ponds,
but where you're just so excited about that

346
00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:10.880
ww's experience that you're like full born. That's a great wow. Nobody's ever

347
00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:14.480
asking that, And that's a great
question because it does like going back to

348
00:24:14.559 --> 00:24:18.680
that. I mean, I know
I didn't want to be a job guy,

349
00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:23.000
and back then there was no real
clear path to a job a guy

350
00:24:23.119 --> 00:24:27.319
getting a job. I mean there
were guys like Barry Horror Whips And this

351
00:24:27.400 --> 00:24:30.400
was right about the time as well. Think about it as the one two

352
00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:34.759
three kid, exactly the same time
as the one two three Kid, my

353
00:24:34.759 --> 00:24:40.119
friend Shawn Waltman. And there was
really no it was to me, it

354
00:24:40.200 --> 00:24:44.720
was not even a calculating move.
It was just simply a move to how

355
00:24:44.799 --> 00:24:48.440
do I stay in the business?
Right? You know? I could just

356
00:24:48.519 --> 00:24:52.000
do shitty indies like once a year
or once every two years and be a

357
00:24:52.039 --> 00:24:56.240
top guy or a mid guy or
a lower card guy, or do I

358
00:24:56.359 --> 00:24:59.799
go and work for the ww WE
as a job guy. And I saw

359
00:25:00.039 --> 00:25:03.359
I had seen a lot of guys
and I wasn't even thinking this at the

360
00:25:03.400 --> 00:25:06.440
time, to be honest, but
I saw a lot of guys who had

361
00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:10.640
some names in the end because again, the indies were not really covered.

362
00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:15.240
It was like talk about mud show, like you know what nobody really reported

363
00:25:15.319 --> 00:25:18.720
on Indians, you know what I
mean. It wasn't a thing like it

364
00:25:18.759 --> 00:25:21.839
is today. And I want to
talk about this at some point. To

365
00:25:21.960 --> 00:25:26.440
me, now, indies are almost
a disgrace because you know, it's just

366
00:25:26.519 --> 00:25:30.160
so much anybody with a ring and
anybody that trains a guy for a week

367
00:25:30.200 --> 00:25:33.319
could have an indie show and it's
it's and it's killing the business. But

368
00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:37.359
that's another thing. But that didn't
exist then, it really didn't. So

369
00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:40.759
I was just like, look,
this is just a way for me to

370
00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:45.720
again meet people and get my foot
in the door. And I really didn't

371
00:25:45.720 --> 00:25:48.319
think of a lot of it.
It was really like the only thing I

372
00:25:48.359 --> 00:25:53.319
could do, you know. In
that same path that I took, also

373
00:25:53.920 --> 00:25:57.279
was happening for another guy who got
very famous in the w W. Scotti,

374
00:25:57.359 --> 00:26:03.000
Johadie Scott Taylor, because he was
doing really think yeah, him and

375
00:26:03.079 --> 00:26:07.279
I started almost at the same exact
time, very good friends to this day,

376
00:26:07.480 --> 00:26:11.480
traveling buddies back in the day.
But he started out of Massachusetts and

377
00:26:11.720 --> 00:26:15.559
was you know, we did the
some of the same indies and ended up

378
00:26:15.559 --> 00:26:18.960
doing the same exact you know,
because when the WWE came to do TVs,

379
00:26:19.319 --> 00:26:25.119
they picked the best indie guys to
do jobs right, and Scottie was

380
00:26:25.119 --> 00:26:27.079
always one of those guys in the
nineties, you know, especially in the

381
00:26:27.160 --> 00:26:30.599
early nineties. So yeah, so
it was a lot of that stuff happening.

382
00:26:30.599 --> 00:26:36.359
It was really cool, you know. So as you're getting your feet

383
00:26:36.359 --> 00:26:40.039
wet into business and you're starting to
punish it, hone in on your craft.

384
00:26:40.519 --> 00:26:44.000
Where is your who's your inspiration for
your move? Sat and where how

385
00:26:44.039 --> 00:26:47.640
did you come up with your finishers
and your second sure moves? I really

386
00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:55.559
had nothing. I really had nothing. I just really tried to be the

387
00:26:55.599 --> 00:27:02.359
best wrestler I could be, and
the stuff I had done as Aldo was

388
00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:06.960
like really just um, you know, me thinking, okay, what I

389
00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:10.000
always thought I could be. You
know because at the time I was two

390
00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:15.119
twenty two twenty five. I'm six
foot tall. That's not big in those

391
00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:18.359
days, right, We're talking about
still the land of Giants, where everybody's

392
00:27:18.359 --> 00:27:22.680
six three two forty. Remember I
remember being in the locker room with ted

393
00:27:22.759 --> 00:27:26.960
d Beyonce Grow and Teddy a great
guy. Loved Teddy to this day.

394
00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:32.200
Wonderfully. But you know, he's
the million dollar man on TV. You

395
00:27:32.200 --> 00:27:37.039
know, he's got this amazing gimmick. But he was so tall and so

396
00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:42.680
thick and big and muscular. You're
talking about like Division one college football player.

397
00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:47.480
He kind of guys, you know
what I mean, like real superior

398
00:27:47.559 --> 00:27:51.240
athletes, not just some muscled up
dudes. You're talking about guys that are

399
00:27:51.319 --> 00:27:55.720
super tall, super thick, and
can run and work faster than you.

400
00:27:55.839 --> 00:27:57.880
So I was like, you know
what I mean, Like, what the

401
00:27:57.880 --> 00:28:03.400
hell, dude? Um, these
guys were prime, prime, superior athletes.

402
00:28:03.480 --> 00:28:07.880
So it really took a lot to
kind of figure out where am I

403
00:28:08.160 --> 00:28:12.039
Am I gonna make it in in
this kind of industry where everybody's so big.

404
00:28:12.079 --> 00:28:15.440
So at two twenty two twenty five
six foot, I had to be

405
00:28:15.480 --> 00:28:19.200
a high flyer back in those days, because if you remember, Owen Hart

406
00:28:19.240 --> 00:28:22.559
was always the smallest of the hearts, and he was a high Yes,

407
00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:26.279
right, Owen was a high flyer. You had to be at that,

408
00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:30.680
you know, because if you were
under two hundred or hovering around the two

409
00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:34.400
to twenty to twenty, you still
have Benua all those guys they were.

410
00:28:34.519 --> 00:28:37.359
We had to be high flyers.
In those days, or else who weren't

411
00:28:37.359 --> 00:28:41.559
you know, Pillman, Brian Pillman, those guys you had to be,

412
00:28:41.640 --> 00:28:44.559
or else who weren't getting involved,
you know, or you'd be a jobber

413
00:28:45.319 --> 00:28:48.119
so again, you know. And
and the guys who Dbasi I remember being

414
00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:52.960
sixty three and he had two inch
risers on his boots, so he probably

415
00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:57.680
stood about six four six five.
You know, everybody talked out even holding

416
00:28:57.880 --> 00:29:02.279
all those guys. They were just
so larger than light. You were always

417
00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:07.079
trying to be bigger and better than
whether it be through steroids or through lifts

418
00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:12.039
on your shoes or whatever. However, whatever magic trips you could pull to

419
00:29:12.119 --> 00:29:15.880
look big, they did it,
you know. So I was like,

420
00:29:15.079 --> 00:29:18.440
whoa, you know, And it
wasn't until so anyway, That's how I

421
00:29:18.440 --> 00:29:22.920
started to develop My moveset was always
like more of a high flyer, and

422
00:29:22.039 --> 00:29:26.359
that was because my lack of size, which is funny to say now,

423
00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:32.680
because in aw I'm a goddamn monster
compared to these guys that looked like swimmers.

424
00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:38.839
May I interject without intercheckering again,
So here's something that I noticed about

425
00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:42.039
you the first time I saw you. I believe you were p J.

426
00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:47.839
Walker. First time I saw you
in t Okay and I I'm usually a

427
00:29:47.880 --> 00:29:49.839
wrestling encyclopedia, but you corrected me. I thought it was in Global,

428
00:29:51.160 --> 00:29:55.160
but it turns out it was USWA, so I didn't get to see your

429
00:29:55.200 --> 00:30:00.079
matches on Rock. Now. There
was three people that I thought was synonymou

430
00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:03.599
with their I think they called like
Junior Heavyweight, um the Visual and I

431
00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:06.640
always thought you were part of it, and that's shame on me for not

432
00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:10.759
knowing that. But it was always
Sean Waltman, you know, really really

433
00:30:10.759 --> 00:30:18.160
well, Jerry Winn and exactly Yeah, we don't know what to do with

434
00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:22.440
him. Uh, just let him
be himself. So when I looked back

435
00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:26.599
at like the history of me watching
you coming up, I was always impressed

436
00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:30.480
by the stuff that you could do. Sean Waltmon could do, Jerry Lynn

437
00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:33.119
could do. But he disappeared for
a while until he became mister j L,

438
00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:37.799
which was right about the time that
Ross was trying to get into the

439
00:30:37.839 --> 00:30:41.279
Attitude era to get back at Nitro. But that's neither here nor there.

440
00:30:41.359 --> 00:30:44.720
The point is I remember your move
set and remember what you could do,

441
00:30:45.400 --> 00:30:49.319
and every time I saw you,
which was later on on Raw with the

442
00:30:49.400 --> 00:30:55.079
Aldo thing, I'm sorry to bring
it up. Well, I mean,

443
00:30:55.119 --> 00:30:57.160
you made money. You made money, you know even that I was,

444
00:30:57.559 --> 00:31:00.960
I don't want to go up on
it, but I I loved it was

445
00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:07.400
a great growing experience. So I
just remember like seeing the three of you

446
00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:11.079
as synonymous, and I hated the
fact that the Lightning kid, which was

447
00:31:11.079 --> 00:31:15.400
amazing in global, became the one
two three kid with a clean shaven face

448
00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:18.240
and acting like he was going to
cry. And Jerry Lynn like, like

449
00:31:18.279 --> 00:31:22.000
I said, he who knows what
he did for a couple of years,

450
00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:25.799
then he comes back under a mask, and it's like that's for all of

451
00:31:25.880 --> 00:31:29.559
us who read everything. And at
this point, I'm sure and I'm not

452
00:31:29.599 --> 00:31:33.039
trying to rush anything, is when
I think you saw it as much as

453
00:31:33.079 --> 00:31:37.680
I did. The territories were really
collapsing because it was down to at this

454
00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:41.960
point just WWE or WWF as you
and I know it, and WCW who

455
00:31:41.960 --> 00:31:45.480
bought out the NWA, who never
had the same ideals, and you had

456
00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:48.559
to go through so many different people
and so many different management things. I

457
00:31:48.559 --> 00:31:51.200
couldn't imagine what was on your mind
if you had to get sent there.

458
00:31:51.480 --> 00:31:55.599
But the meantime, something else did
happen to you when you got sent someplace

459
00:31:55.640 --> 00:31:57.839
else. And I'm not talking about
ECW, you know what I'm talking about.

460
00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:02.160
Um, well, are you talking
about me going back to members or

461
00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:07.480
yeah, going back to manthis and
tagging out the PG thirteen, Yes,

462
00:32:07.640 --> 00:32:09.839
and being a PG one eight seven. That was one of my favorites on

463
00:32:09.920 --> 00:32:14.519
tape training. I was like,
that's him. Well it was. I

464
00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:19.960
literally, all right, let's let's
rewind it a bit. I literally literally

465
00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:23.880
was doing really good as Aldo,
and I don't even I forget sometimes what

466
00:32:24.039 --> 00:32:28.279
I did as Aldo. Um,
I went back and watched some shit,

467
00:32:28.440 --> 00:32:31.599
dude. Um, I mean I
had a feud with both Jerry Lawler and

468
00:32:31.720 --> 00:32:37.839
Jeff Jarrett on when I was Aldo. I beat Jerry Lawler on raw.

469
00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:42.240
As Aldo, I beat Jeff Jarrett
in an non title match, did a

470
00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:46.799
week's worth of promos challenging him for
the IC title, then going for the

471
00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:52.319
the Icy Belt and having road Dog
interfere, and then Razor coming in to

472
00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:55.559
save me, and then us having
tag matches Me and Razor against uh,

473
00:32:55.599 --> 00:32:59.839
you know, road Dog and Jeff
Jarrett. So like I was grooming this

474
00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:05.000
like the little guy that could but
never could make it and that was a

475
00:33:05.039 --> 00:33:07.200
good gimmick for me. I was
learning. I was on the road wrestling,

476
00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:10.519
getting you know, kind of getting
my reps in right, working with

477
00:33:10.599 --> 00:33:15.680
world class talent all over the place, making money. It was great opportunity

478
00:33:15.720 --> 00:33:20.000
in great times. And although at
one point, you know, after a

479
00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:23.720
while in ninety six, you know, the beginning of ninety seven started to

480
00:33:23.839 --> 00:33:28.160
really like, okay, this is
kind of it feraldo you know, it

481
00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:30.680
went as far as it could go. Did the best he could with it,

482
00:33:30.680 --> 00:33:31.640
he really did, and he gave
me a lot of opportunities. I'm

483
00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:37.039
not gonna lie and like sometimes I
have the narrative that they didn't do anything

484
00:33:37.079 --> 00:33:42.400
with me, but going back and
watching all that they did, I actually

485
00:33:42.400 --> 00:33:45.480
had a good little run, as
you know, nothing great, but a

486
00:33:45.519 --> 00:33:46.960
good little run. You know.
They tried a couple of things here and

487
00:33:47.000 --> 00:33:51.720
there. You know, it's just
what it was. But anyways, I

488
00:33:51.799 --> 00:33:55.960
digress. So my contract about to
come up, Razor and keV went to

489
00:33:57.480 --> 00:34:01.720
WCW. It was the big exit
of you know, my friend Kevin Nash

490
00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:07.160
and Scott Hall. And at the
time my contract was coming up, and

491
00:34:07.279 --> 00:34:12.880
I was really feeling myself having great
matches on the road, really kind of

492
00:34:12.920 --> 00:34:16.320
like I'm twenty four going on twenty
four. I was twenty four, twenty

493
00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:21.079
three, twenty four really getting good
now because I'm having you know, I'm

494
00:34:21.079 --> 00:34:23.920
wrestling four or five times a week
on house shows, wrestling top talent,

495
00:34:24.079 --> 00:34:28.519
really having like ed and at times
best match of the night. You know.

496
00:34:29.239 --> 00:34:31.400
Um, and I strongly we can
say that. I'm not embarrassed to

497
00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:35.559
say that. People go back and
look at the history books. You'll probably

498
00:34:35.559 --> 00:34:38.119
get the same thing I'm saying to
you. Um, you know, because

499
00:34:38.119 --> 00:34:42.320
it was, you know, I
was really going over and above to have

500
00:34:42.360 --> 00:34:45.679
the best match of the night against
guys like Chris Candido, doctor Tom Pritchard,

501
00:34:46.199 --> 00:34:52.480
many other amazing people. Yes.
Great, Yeah. And so anyways,

502
00:34:53.159 --> 00:34:55.360
I go to Vince and I'm like, you know, we get a

503
00:34:55.400 --> 00:35:00.079
meeting at the Great Stanford Titan Towers, and I go in and I'm like,

504
00:35:00.199 --> 00:35:04.039
Vince, you know, thank you
for taking this meeting. You know,

505
00:35:05.199 --> 00:35:07.920
I'm very grateful for everything you've done. But I said, uh,

506
00:35:08.199 --> 00:35:12.599
you know, I kind of,
um, i feel like I've done the

507
00:35:12.639 --> 00:35:15.800
most i can as this character.
I've learned so much. I'm very grateful

508
00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:22.039
for this opportunity. But I said, you know, at the going kind

509
00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:24.400
of where we're going in this business
and where I'm going in this business,

510
00:35:24.920 --> 00:35:30.360
I feel like I've kind of plateaued. I said, um, you know,

511
00:35:30.559 --> 00:35:34.280
if you don't mind, I'd like
to get my release and uh kind

512
00:35:34.320 --> 00:35:37.599
of you know, test the markets
to see if I can go somewhere else.

513
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:39.519
And I thought that was going to
be a no brain or Vince would

514
00:35:39.519 --> 00:35:43.000
be like, I got no problem. You're you know, you're not a

515
00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:47.000
guy that's used very much right now, No problem, And Vince actually said

516
00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:52.000
no. He goes, you know, I don't want to let you go.

517
00:35:52.119 --> 00:35:53.440
I said, you use as you're
an up and coming guy. He

518
00:35:53.559 --> 00:35:57.880
goes, I've I've invested a lot
of TV time and a lot of resources

519
00:35:57.920 --> 00:36:01.000
on preparing you. He goes,
I don't want you to go, and

520
00:36:01.119 --> 00:36:06.239
he goes, I'm going to send
you to Memphis, not as a punishment,

521
00:36:06.360 --> 00:36:10.320
but as a way to develop yourself
and a heel persona and come back

522
00:36:10.360 --> 00:36:15.960
to WWF as a heel you know. No mask. The whole thing,

523
00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:20.119
you know, because that's why they
put the mask on anyways, was they

524
00:36:20.199 --> 00:36:22.840
knew very well that I was going
to be a generational guy, that I

525
00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:25.440
was going to be there for a
long time. They were going to kind

526
00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:30.280
of make me, you know,
make me learn under the mask, and

527
00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:32.320
then when time was right, kind
of like how they did with a lot

528
00:36:32.360 --> 00:36:36.960
of guys if you really remember the
Alice Snows, the Canes, the so

529
00:36:37.079 --> 00:36:38.559
many guys they put under a hood
then take it off and they have a

530
00:36:38.559 --> 00:36:42.400
whole new character. It was a
similar thing. They just like, you

531
00:36:42.440 --> 00:36:45.519
know, you cut your fucking teeth. Now let's turn you into something else.

532
00:36:46.159 --> 00:36:49.760
So he's like, I want you
to go to USWA and learn to

533
00:36:49.800 --> 00:36:52.480
work as a heel. Then we'll
bring you back up. And that's what

534
00:36:52.599 --> 00:36:55.840
happened. You know, I went
to us way and learn to work as

535
00:36:55.840 --> 00:37:00.079
a heel. And okay, so
I'm gonna sign Maria real quick here.

536
00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:04.360
First of all, I lived in
Memphis for like thirteen years, but it

537
00:37:04.480 --> 00:37:07.559
was way after you were gone and
done. Okay. I love that city

538
00:37:07.639 --> 00:37:09.480
up and down at one point and
ran a quarter of deal street through story

539
00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:13.920
And my favorite place to get go
is the Kooky Canuck. Help sponsor the

540
00:37:13.920 --> 00:37:16.440
show at eighty seven South Second Street. Go see Shan Danko, a good

541
00:37:16.440 --> 00:37:21.440
friend of mine, my mentor and
one of my best friends. But getting

542
00:37:21.440 --> 00:37:27.480
into what's really important with this is
at this point USWA didn't have the ESPN

543
00:37:27.519 --> 00:37:31.559
time slot as far as I knew
anymore, Global hadn't botched data, and

544
00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:37.320
everything that they could do was just
really screwed. So from my understanding and

545
00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:40.559
from some prior stuff, I don't
really want to drum it up too much.

546
00:37:40.599 --> 00:37:45.039
You said it wasn't a punishment,
But could you provide for your family?

547
00:37:45.480 --> 00:37:50.159
No, that's the whole thing that
could not vince was giving me five

548
00:37:50.239 --> 00:37:55.480
hundred dollars a week. That was
it. And that five hundred dollars a

549
00:37:55.480 --> 00:38:00.280
week. Mind, you have to
provide for not only I just did gotten

550
00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:05.239
married to my wife, who I'm
still marriagated this day. Um, I

551
00:38:05.360 --> 00:38:09.199
had to provide for my house in
Connecticut, my car in Connecticut, my

552
00:38:09.440 --> 00:38:15.039
living in Connecticut, my regular living, and also provide for an apartment in

553
00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:19.400
Memphis, a rental car in Memphis, food, et cetera, et cetera.

554
00:38:19.519 --> 00:38:23.639
So I'm five hundred dollars a week. How are you supposed to do

555
00:38:23.719 --> 00:38:29.559
that? Think about us run two
spots, two car payments, food,

556
00:38:29.599 --> 00:38:32.079
it's how are you doing that?
You know what I mean? So you're

557
00:38:32.079 --> 00:38:37.719
living, You're living your good.
I'm doing twelve hundred dollars in the whole

558
00:38:37.960 --> 00:38:40.039
and what do you think about this
time? Star? You know, if

559
00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:44.360
not more? Um, you know, I just it was too much.

560
00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:46.639
I mean I was really I was
literally I remember us being down there because

561
00:38:46.760 --> 00:38:50.559
my wife was on the road loogly. Then in Memphis, we were there

562
00:38:50.599 --> 00:38:52.960
for whopping six weeks, but it
was the worst six weeks of my life.

563
00:38:53.239 --> 00:38:57.320
And we were at a point where
we were literally ordering We'd go to

564
00:38:57.400 --> 00:39:01.039
like one of those chain restaurant it's
like a Friday's or Chilies or whatever those

565
00:39:01.079 --> 00:39:07.239
places are, and like we'd order
a baked potato. That's tad. We'd

566
00:39:07.239 --> 00:39:10.199
just go because we did we had
a place to you know, a pitty

567
00:39:10.239 --> 00:39:15.760
little one bedroom extended stay, you
know, apartment, and if we wanted

568
00:39:15.800 --> 00:39:19.840
to go out on a Friday night, we each order a baked potato with

569
00:39:19.920 --> 00:39:22.920
some like you know, salsa on
the side so we could like, you

570
00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:25.519
know, make some kind of a
meal and get out of the house for

571
00:39:25.960 --> 00:39:29.599
you know, out of the apartment
or whatever that check that it was,

572
00:39:30.320 --> 00:39:31.880
you know, And I was losing
again, back to losing weight, back

573
00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:36.719
to not eating. And now I'm
also thinking I just married this girl,

574
00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:40.559
and you know this is how Hey, welcome to your new life with this

575
00:39:40.559 --> 00:39:45.679
guy who cannot provide you will you
know what I mean anything? It was

576
00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:51.880
just again, it was back to
square one, and you know it's crazy.

577
00:39:52.280 --> 00:39:54.840
So when at what point, what
year, or what contract would move

578
00:39:54.920 --> 00:40:00.760
did it take to finally get you
where you were providing forty with without a

579
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:07.760
stress. Yes, the last show
I ever did for USWA from Memphis was

580
00:40:07.960 --> 00:40:15.639
a show. If you remember,
in nineteen ninety seven, ECW had a

581
00:40:15.639 --> 00:40:20.199
an angle with Jerry Lawler and they
were, you know, Jerry Lawler was

582
00:40:20.239 --> 00:40:24.320
coming up to ECWTV and they were
feuding. So as part of the angle,

583
00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:30.840
my last show was in Memphis.
They had Tommy Dreamer, the Sandman,

584
00:40:30.039 --> 00:40:35.320
Rob Van Damn, Sabu, Paul
Hayman, and Tom I said,

585
00:40:35.360 --> 00:40:39.760
Tommy Dreamer, Chris Candido and they
were on this ECW show And in the

586
00:40:39.800 --> 00:40:44.039
angle, I portrayed one of the
ECW guys. They just gave me an

587
00:40:44.039 --> 00:40:49.239
ec W shirt and it was just
storyline stuff. But Chris Candido, who

588
00:40:49.320 --> 00:40:52.519
was an old friend of mine from
the WWE slash w WF. He was

589
00:40:52.599 --> 00:40:57.880
a skip from the Body Downards and
we don't get me started that one.

590
00:40:57.760 --> 00:41:00.239
Yeah, I know, but we
had worked together and we loved each other.

591
00:41:00.280 --> 00:41:04.320
We're good friends. He's like,
man, you should come work for

592
00:41:04.400 --> 00:41:07.159
ECW because I was telling them how
shitty things were, and uh, you

593
00:41:07.199 --> 00:41:10.159
know, I was ready to go
home, I know, ready to kind

594
00:41:10.159 --> 00:41:13.840
of give it up, and he
goes, man, you know, come

595
00:41:13.880 --> 00:41:17.039
work for us, Come work for
Paul. So long story short, I

596
00:41:17.159 --> 00:41:21.159
gave my notice. I told Vince
I was I was done for good this

597
00:41:21.239 --> 00:41:25.639
time. I got my ticket out
of Memphis and I had arranged to work

598
00:41:27.440 --> 00:41:29.800
a tryout. It was more of
a I don't know if it was a

599
00:41:29.800 --> 00:41:32.639
tryout of whatever it was, but
I ended up working the weekend for Paul

600
00:41:32.719 --> 00:41:38.400
Hayman ECW. I did Queens New
York and then I debuted. I did

601
00:41:38.519 --> 00:41:44.000
Queens New York on Friday night as
Aldo, where I ripped off the mask

602
00:41:44.119 --> 00:41:49.880
and say fwwe im ECW, and
then the next day it was the next

603
00:41:49.880 --> 00:41:54.639
show. I worked as Justin Credible
for the first time ever. I think

604
00:41:54.679 --> 00:41:59.360
it was in October of ninety seven, and that's where I got the name

605
00:41:59.440 --> 00:42:05.039
Justin credib Land. I wrestled just
for records sake the Incoming Jerry Lynn.

606
00:42:05.119 --> 00:42:07.880
So him and I were the first
match in ECW first, Yes, and

607
00:42:08.199 --> 00:42:13.719
that's where the Justin Credible character started. And from then Paul went to Vince

608
00:42:13.719 --> 00:42:15.960
and said, look, you don't
want to give him his release to go

609
00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:20.599
to WCW, that's fine, send
him over to me and we'll call it

610
00:42:20.679 --> 00:42:24.599
a day. And my contract with
Vince went into a contract with Paul,

611
00:42:25.280 --> 00:42:31.239
and I became ECW till the company
went out of business. That's amazing.

612
00:42:32.239 --> 00:42:37.400
Now, can I rewind one second? Because at one point I sometimes I

613
00:42:37.800 --> 00:42:42.920
message Wolfie d on Facebook, and
at one point you were put with them

614
00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:45.480
and you were PG one eight seven, So I want to know about that

615
00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:51.400
character. Was that the roots that
you were starting for Justin Incredible? It

616
00:42:51.679 --> 00:42:54.840
was in a way I just didn't
know what else to do because everything was

617
00:42:54.920 --> 00:42:59.320
moving so fast. I really didn't
get a chance to think about it,

618
00:42:59.400 --> 00:43:02.960
you know what I mean. And
I was just trying to you know,

619
00:43:04.000 --> 00:43:07.079
I just kind of think, like, how would I act if I was

620
00:43:07.119 --> 00:43:08.639
one of those guys, you know, just kind of trying to be a

621
00:43:08.679 --> 00:43:13.599
thug, trying to be something I
wasn't because it wasn't very natural for me

622
00:43:13.719 --> 00:43:19.880
right to do that. Kind of
PG thirteen stuff. I was really out

623
00:43:19.960 --> 00:43:22.679
of my comfort zone. But I
was trying to be somebody. So yeah,

624
00:43:22.719 --> 00:43:25.440
that was kind of where I was
at, but I had a hard

625
00:43:25.480 --> 00:43:30.960
time doing it. It wasn't until
I got to Paul and he started to

626
00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:34.320
really mold me. And then and
then just incredible, kind of just became

627
00:43:34.440 --> 00:43:37.840
neat very slowly, but you know, because if you look at my first

628
00:43:37.079 --> 00:43:42.039
the first episode, the first TV
taping of me is just incredible. I

629
00:43:42.079 --> 00:43:46.400
still don't look right, but very
soon, you know, you get a

630
00:43:46.440 --> 00:43:49.559
couple of weeks into it, you
know what I mean, you just start

631
00:43:49.840 --> 00:43:52.039
he started to make you feel more
comfortable, and then I just became me,

632
00:43:53.119 --> 00:43:55.920
which is like I was just a
combo of like the guys that I

633
00:43:55.960 --> 00:44:00.159
liked, you know that, guys
like Sean Michael, guys like Razor Ramone

634
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:05.840
and Rick Flayer. I just became
all, you know in my own presentation.

635
00:44:07.400 --> 00:44:09.920
Yeah, well with w W.
You know, the Chiler it used

636
00:44:09.920 --> 00:44:14.440
to be the land of the giants
and the body building buffs, and then

637
00:44:14.480 --> 00:44:16.719
by the nineties, after the steroid
era, all that changed. You know.

638
00:44:17.760 --> 00:44:22.079
Growing up, I've always you know, I'm drawn to the largest the

639
00:44:22.119 --> 00:44:27.280
life characters like Andre the show Taker
and Cane, but that's only because of

640
00:44:27.320 --> 00:44:32.480
their size. But I mostly connect
with people like you because we have by

641
00:44:32.679 --> 00:44:37.039
the same height, same build,
And when I see guys that have my

642
00:44:37.159 --> 00:44:39.639
height and build, it makes me
those are the guys that I connect with

643
00:44:39.679 --> 00:44:44.480
more in the ring. Sure,
So you know, whenever, when you

644
00:44:44.559 --> 00:44:49.119
got to eat ECW, that's when
I encourage you and discovered you. And

645
00:44:49.719 --> 00:44:53.400
we all know and still feel the
how impactful ECW was. Supper wrestling,

646
00:44:54.159 --> 00:45:00.400
the the allegiance of the hardcore fans
spirit still wars today wrestling. So you

647
00:45:00.440 --> 00:45:07.159
know, ECW changed a lot for
the industry. It even changed backyard wrestling.

648
00:45:07.320 --> 00:45:09.400
I want to be too hardcore wrestling
want to be And I noticed because

649
00:45:09.760 --> 00:45:13.599
I was one of them, you
know, jumping on the back Campellin's as

650
00:45:13.639 --> 00:45:16.400
young kids. Yeah, you know, it was a great time growing up

651
00:45:16.440 --> 00:45:24.199
as a changer for me. It
was one thing it was was it captured.

652
00:45:24.840 --> 00:45:30.920
It was so different, and what
Paulie did with wrestling is it's just

653
00:45:31.239 --> 00:45:37.039
I can't even explain it because it
was you couldn't do it today, And

654
00:45:37.159 --> 00:45:42.800
it wasn't because of It wasn't because
we were so extreme or It wasn't because

655
00:45:42.840 --> 00:45:49.280
we were so different. It was
just we were kind of a voice of

656
00:45:49.400 --> 00:45:52.440
the voices. And I know that
sounds very easy to say, what does

657
00:45:52.519 --> 00:45:57.320
that mean. It's like we were
everything that the fans wanted that nobody was

658
00:45:57.440 --> 00:46:02.360
getting. The great the great thing
Paul Hayman had was to feel the pulse

659
00:46:02.519 --> 00:46:08.199
of the industry and that was because
of WCW, and that was because of

660
00:46:08.440 --> 00:46:15.760
WWE. They were both not providing
us with what we wanted. You know.

661
00:46:15.039 --> 00:46:22.000
WWE was very cartoon, was very
you know, vanilla, you know.

662
00:46:22.159 --> 00:46:24.239
And it was not to say it
wasn't good. I mean, they

663
00:46:24.239 --> 00:46:28.400
had some of the greatest wrestlers doing
some good work. Don't get me wrong,

664
00:46:29.039 --> 00:46:31.280
WCW. They had a lot of
amazing wrestlers as well. They had

665
00:46:31.320 --> 00:46:35.119
some of the greats, but still
they couldn't get their ship, you know

666
00:46:35.159 --> 00:46:37.960
what I mean. It just all
felt outdated. And then there was ECW.

667
00:46:38.599 --> 00:46:44.320
All of a sudden, We're playing
popular music music that you and I

668
00:46:44.440 --> 00:46:46.920
are going, you know, listening
to in school, ship that's on the

669
00:46:47.079 --> 00:46:52.760
radio. We're doing music videos,
We're having beautiful girls on our show,

670
00:46:52.400 --> 00:46:57.599
you know, dancing or coming out
with the wrestlers and getting involved. You

671
00:46:57.800 --> 00:47:02.800
had blood, which was again something
that was happening in FMW, in the

672
00:47:02.880 --> 00:47:08.320
subculture of professional wrestling. So Paul
just took a little bit of everything,

673
00:47:08.639 --> 00:47:13.320
mashed it up into one and there
was the birth, you know what I

674
00:47:13.400 --> 00:47:15.880
mean. And he took people that
were underrated people with all the talent in

675
00:47:15.920 --> 00:47:22.400
the world, and ECW became Frankenstein's
monster, you know, a build and

676
00:47:22.480 --> 00:47:25.760
a global brand that nobody you know, sign of the times, as the

677
00:47:25.840 --> 00:47:31.079
Great Prince would say, And that's
what ECW was. So speaking of that

678
00:47:31.320 --> 00:47:36.280
music that shall play? What inspires
your theme music? Did you come up

679
00:47:36.320 --> 00:47:38.960
with it? I didn't get who
gave it to you? Then Paul gave

680
00:47:39.039 --> 00:47:43.159
me it, I believe it or
not. He had he had the whole

681
00:47:43.280 --> 00:47:45.960
character scoped out long before I came
to play. I think he had that

682
00:47:46.159 --> 00:47:51.679
character well in mind. I just
think he needed somebody to come along who

683
00:47:51.760 --> 00:47:54.239
could do it or who he felt
could do it. So, yeah,

684
00:47:54.440 --> 00:47:59.639
that whole thing was top to bottom
Paul Hammond and how you think about it,

685
00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:04.000
and he presented it to bro I
was just happier than a pig and

686
00:48:04.079 --> 00:48:07.960
shit anyways, right because I got
to just be a part of something so

687
00:48:07.159 --> 00:48:09.960
cool, and I knew it was
something rather. I mean, this is

688
00:48:10.039 --> 00:48:16.519
again, this is something that was
so obviously a head and shoulders above anything

689
00:48:16.559 --> 00:48:20.639
else. It was so punk rock, it was the it was so cool.

690
00:48:21.039 --> 00:48:23.880
I mean, you got to remember
ECW was a small brand and we

691
00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:28.599
were in hot topics, in the
malls, we were in everyt we were

692
00:48:28.639 --> 00:48:30.840
in, you know, ec ec
up and W shirt were everywhere. We

693
00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:35.280
were the cool kids. And you
know, we felt we took that and

694
00:48:35.440 --> 00:48:38.719
ran with it and people were starting
to notice them. You know, we

695
00:48:38.880 --> 00:48:43.719
were he was just we were riding
that lightning bolt, you know, and

696
00:48:43.800 --> 00:48:47.159
it was just it was really cool, and Paul was really the the epicenter

697
00:48:47.239 --> 00:48:51.679
of it, and he just put
his guys in place where he felt could

698
00:48:52.440 --> 00:48:55.159
could could carry that a ka revolution
and it was, you know, in

699
00:48:55.639 --> 00:48:59.960
some terms, you know, a
revolution, not necessarily a pro wrestler,

700
00:49:00.119 --> 00:49:04.639
but like of what could be done. You know, It's like, you

701
00:49:04.719 --> 00:49:07.840
know, the Internet was going to
start coming. We already had ECW wrestling

702
00:49:07.960 --> 00:49:12.679
dot Com, but back then it
was just for pictures and stuff like that

703
00:49:12.800 --> 00:49:16.679
and results. But we knew very
close behind was going to be the Internet

704
00:49:16.760 --> 00:49:21.400
era of wrestling. So we already
started to kind of get in with the

705
00:49:21.800 --> 00:49:24.360
get in bed with the dirt sheets
and start to become, you know,

706
00:49:24.840 --> 00:49:29.480
super smart in how to book these
things to the smarts. We started to

707
00:49:29.559 --> 00:49:34.639
realize how that was the thing,
you know, all of it. So

708
00:49:34.840 --> 00:49:37.119
let's let's get the gardener in here. That's my other nickname, by the

709
00:49:37.159 --> 00:49:42.719
way, the captain and the second
best pro wrestling you know, podcaster in

710
00:49:42.760 --> 00:49:45.079
Louisville, because you know, as
no one can touch Jimmy. But there's

711
00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:49.639
some things from this era that I
remember and some things I want to talk

712
00:49:49.679 --> 00:49:54.199
to us. First of all,
it's the drinking question. Was I I've

713
00:49:54.199 --> 00:49:58.559
always wondered, were you part of
the clique. It's always been rumored that

714
00:49:58.639 --> 00:50:02.599
you were part of the clique.
Um, I mean I'd like to think

715
00:50:02.639 --> 00:50:08.920
so. I mean, it wasn't
It wasn't an initiation or anything. I

716
00:50:09.039 --> 00:50:13.400
mean, look, we were a
bunch of guys, a bunch of friends

717
00:50:13.480 --> 00:50:16.639
that you know, drove around to
the shows together that we're hanging out together,

718
00:50:17.639 --> 00:50:21.199
you know, Scott All, Shawn
Michaels. I mean, look,

719
00:50:21.239 --> 00:50:24.960
I stayed when Shawn Michaels left WWE
in ninety seven and ninety eight. I

720
00:50:25.039 --> 00:50:28.960
think it was ninety eight and he
opened up his wrestling school. I spent

721
00:50:29.039 --> 00:50:34.079
a week down there at his wrestling
school the year that Daniel Bryan was a

722
00:50:34.199 --> 00:50:37.599
student, helping train Damn Bryan.
So I was down at Shawn's house,

723
00:50:37.599 --> 00:50:40.199
sleeping at his house. I was
at Scott's place. He came up to

724
00:50:40.320 --> 00:50:45.000
my place. You know, a
kid. All of us were friends.

725
00:50:45.079 --> 00:50:47.800
So if I'm not in the clip, then whatever. But I think the

726
00:50:49.639 --> 00:50:53.440
clip became more of a marketing tool. You know, we were all friends,

727
00:50:53.880 --> 00:50:58.079
you know, it became it started
to become more of a marketing thing.

728
00:50:58.440 --> 00:51:01.079
When WWE started do T shirts on
it. Then that's when you knew

729
00:51:01.119 --> 00:51:05.119
it wasn't a real thing anymore,
you know what I'm saying. Well,

730
00:51:05.559 --> 00:51:12.000
well, my next question was,
did you ever feel like when you got

731
00:51:12.920 --> 00:51:15.840
basically said, not punished, but
sent down to uswa that that could have

732
00:51:15.880 --> 00:51:19.280
been part of the curtain call?
Because I don't know timeline if it was

733
00:51:19.360 --> 00:51:22.239
before or after, But if it
was so, just because you were friends

734
00:51:22.280 --> 00:51:24.400
with him, he might have just
said, Hey, you gotta go,

735
00:51:24.519 --> 00:51:27.639
and I'll just put it on you. I'll put all the guilt on you.

736
00:51:28.800 --> 00:51:30.280
I thought about that, but I've
never presented you with that, because

737
00:51:30.360 --> 00:51:34.440
honestly, I never really talked to
you much before the last couple of days.

738
00:51:35.119 --> 00:51:37.239
Yeah, it could have been,
sure, I mean I have thought

739
00:51:37.239 --> 00:51:42.280
about that. You know, I
know for a fact that they didn't let

740
00:51:42.360 --> 00:51:45.639
me go because of that, you
know. But you know what, but

741
00:51:45.480 --> 00:51:50.079
in a way, if I'm almost
grateful that they didn't let me go.

742
00:51:50.559 --> 00:51:52.599
And Vince was a good Vince was
not a bad guy. I mean,

743
00:51:52.639 --> 00:51:58.920
I know Vince's sometimes betrayed as the
cartoon character monster that he sometimes can be,

744
00:51:59.559 --> 00:52:01.400
but you was a real good dude. And I think he was hurt

745
00:52:01.480 --> 00:52:07.679
by Kevin and Scott leaving, and
I think he had every right to feel

746
00:52:07.760 --> 00:52:10.719
hurt. But at the same extent, I mean those guys, I mean,

747
00:52:10.800 --> 00:52:15.719
I know Scott was you know,
Scott wasn't making the money you guys

748
00:52:15.760 --> 00:52:19.039
think he made his razor. He
was making two hundred and fifty grand a

749
00:52:19.159 --> 00:52:22.199
year, dude, and today's wrestling, that's that a ship. That's terry,

750
00:52:22.639 --> 00:52:27.000
you know what I mean. And
I think he was hurt by that.

751
00:52:27.119 --> 00:52:30.320
He wanted to make more, and
I don't blame him, so I

752
00:52:30.440 --> 00:52:35.360
think, you know, I think
it was just a way too. I

753
00:52:35.440 --> 00:52:38.079
don't know, I think everybody before. It all had to happen the way

754
00:52:38.119 --> 00:52:40.679
it did, because if it didn't, I don't think Vince would have survived.

755
00:52:42.039 --> 00:52:45.159
The Monday n AT Wars wouldn't have
happened. Nothing wouldn't have happened.

756
00:52:45.480 --> 00:52:47.440
It actually worked out perfectly, That's
you know what I mean, Because we

757
00:52:47.480 --> 00:52:52.119
could speculate all we want, but
it all ended up happening the way it

758
00:52:52.239 --> 00:52:55.679
was supposed to it. I think, you know, I really do fair

759
00:52:55.800 --> 00:52:59.840
enough. Now getting back to what
the first time I saw you in ECW,

760
00:53:00.320 --> 00:53:02.840
you were presented in the greatest time
slot. It was Sports Channel America

761
00:53:02.880 --> 00:53:07.920
at two am in Cleveland, Ohio. But you know what, do you

762
00:53:07.000 --> 00:53:13.039
know how many people stayed up to
see that? And yeah, a lot.

763
00:53:13.440 --> 00:53:16.320
That's it was underground beginnings and everybody
I knew that red dirt sheets and

764
00:53:17.159 --> 00:53:22.760
knew about what ECW wasn't I this
is before you debut. We had all

765
00:53:22.920 --> 00:53:27.719
gotten this underground Outlook, you know, this underground thing going on. And

766
00:53:27.840 --> 00:53:30.480
this is before the internet. Like
you said that, you had BBS's bolton

767
00:53:30.559 --> 00:53:34.840
board servers where you would post things
like this is happening on wrestling. You

768
00:53:35.159 --> 00:53:37.760
know what I'm talking about. And
of course Meltzer was all over that.

769
00:53:37.840 --> 00:53:39.679
Wade Keller was all over that.
That's the first time I ever actually talk

770
00:53:39.679 --> 00:53:45.119
to you, was Wade Keller,
and so getting down to it when you

771
00:53:45.239 --> 00:53:46.840
came out, I looked at and
I said, I hate this. This

772
00:53:47.000 --> 00:53:51.519
isn't the guy I knew, and
I didn't want although I wanted PJ.

773
00:53:51.719 --> 00:53:55.599
Walker or or the PG one eighty
seven, I wanted to see that character.

774
00:53:55.760 --> 00:53:59.400
And then the mega push you got
right out the gate and I was

775
00:53:59.440 --> 00:54:02.599
like, he shouldn't be going over
Jerry Lynn. The matches you guys had

776
00:54:02.639 --> 00:54:07.480
were amazing, amazing. They hate
you, Drew. I was just like,

777
00:54:07.599 --> 00:54:09.480
I hate this guy, hate this
guy. And all of a sudden

778
00:54:09.480 --> 00:54:14.480
he smiled one day and I said, he's doing his damn job. Yeah.

779
00:54:14.880 --> 00:54:17.199
And I became a huge fan of
yours, and I was like,

780
00:54:17.280 --> 00:54:21.119
we kind of look we kind of
look alike. We're kind of small guys.

781
00:54:21.760 --> 00:54:25.880
And they you had to fill the
role of Ravens Shoes. Tell me

782
00:54:25.960 --> 00:54:30.559
how that was, knowing that you
had to be the top guy. Heel

783
00:54:30.920 --> 00:54:37.760
Um, it was. It was. I'd like to say it was intimidating,

784
00:54:38.440 --> 00:54:44.719
but Paulie made it. Nahum he
was. I'll tell you. One

785
00:54:44.719 --> 00:54:49.000
thing about Paul Paul Human is a
great He's not a great booker, now

786
00:54:49.079 --> 00:54:52.079
hear me, hear me on the
bore. Everybody gets crazy. He wasn't

787
00:54:52.119 --> 00:54:57.320
the greatest booker. He wasn't the
greatest storyteller. And I think he'd agree

788
00:54:57.320 --> 00:55:00.480
with me. I would challenge him
on this public right now if he has

789
00:55:00.760 --> 00:55:06.960
any thoughts. But I think he
was the best motivator. And what I

790
00:55:07.039 --> 00:55:10.239
mean by that is he would challenge
you and he would put those things up

791
00:55:10.280 --> 00:55:15.039
against you and he would tell you
like kind of like this is where it's

792
00:55:15.079 --> 00:55:17.639
at, and you would want to. He would see the drive in you,

793
00:55:19.239 --> 00:55:21.920
and he would kind of put these
obstacles up in front of you because

794
00:55:21.960 --> 00:55:25.360
he wanted you to go kind of
go for it, to try to outdo

795
00:55:27.159 --> 00:55:30.280
and to try to be better than
I mean to be Raven is almost like

796
00:55:30.440 --> 00:55:36.639
ridiculous. I mean, he is
the iconic ECW guy, right, He'll

797
00:55:37.239 --> 00:55:38.519
one of the one of the greatest. You know, in my opinion,

798
00:55:38.599 --> 00:55:43.679
I love study to death to this
absolutely at the day Guy's you know,

799
00:55:43.840 --> 00:55:49.280
one of my favorites. Super super
super smart, super cerebral, cerebral,

800
00:55:49.760 --> 00:55:53.159
super good in the ring. I
mean he could do anything. So just

801
00:55:53.360 --> 00:55:58.000
to be in that conversation was amazing. I mean he did literally did for

802
00:55:58.159 --> 00:56:01.079
Dreamer and he was doing that for
me now. Um, so you know,

803
00:56:01.280 --> 00:56:07.719
Paul did that by design because there's
no there's no way to to really

804
00:56:07.840 --> 00:56:12.639
test somebody. And this is where
Tony con goes wrong because he lets the

805
00:56:12.719 --> 00:56:15.239
inmates rule the asylum. Where Paul
would just put you in front of the

806
00:56:15.320 --> 00:56:20.800
other guy and hand you a hot
mic instead of the other way around,

807
00:56:20.880 --> 00:56:23.079
like he'd put like it would be
like, you know, put the two

808
00:56:23.159 --> 00:56:25.800
best guys in the room and let
him go at it. But in a

809
00:56:27.519 --> 00:56:30.320
you know, in a way that
simply you know, you're going for storylines

810
00:56:30.360 --> 00:56:36.000
and you're going forward, you know
what I mean, for for good television

811
00:56:36.079 --> 00:56:39.320
content. And Paul knew what was
what was up and that was the beauty

812
00:56:39.360 --> 00:56:43.440
of it, you know. And
uh and Raven was you know, he

813
00:56:43.559 --> 00:56:46.440
taught me so much and getting to
work with him and and everything. I

814
00:56:46.480 --> 00:56:50.000
mean, Scottie and I go back
a long way, and it was just

815
00:56:50.199 --> 00:56:53.079
you know, I just I know
you had to take that role. And

816
00:56:53.159 --> 00:56:55.559
I don't mean to cut you off, but you have to take that role.

817
00:56:55.639 --> 00:56:59.639
And that's you know, you're going
against Dreamer. Now you're going against

818
00:56:59.679 --> 00:57:01.960
sand Man. You're going against you
know, the guy who can't be and

819
00:57:02.000 --> 00:57:06.440
the guy who can always do it, and you're decimating him, taking them

820
00:57:06.480 --> 00:57:09.480
out while their side sidebar and with
Sabu and Van Damn to other things.

821
00:57:09.880 --> 00:57:15.280
But you made it done so well. Then you put together a misfits following

822
00:57:15.400 --> 00:57:17.719
of people around you. You want
to talk a little bit more about those

823
00:57:17.760 --> 00:57:22.719
misfits too? Or was that was
that? Um? Obviously it was Hayman.

824
00:57:22.039 --> 00:57:24.440
But how did you feel about,
like, you know, you're entourage

825
00:57:24.480 --> 00:57:28.519
the sides Lance Storm, who was
one of the great in ring performers of

826
00:57:28.559 --> 00:57:31.719
all time. Yes, I wasn't
crazy about it. I wasn't crazy about

827
00:57:31.719 --> 00:57:36.039
it, and I didn't understand it
at first. I didn't know why he

828
00:57:36.159 --> 00:57:39.920
did it. I felt again this
is at first, Um, I thought

829
00:57:40.039 --> 00:57:44.719
Jason Knight was a bit beneath me, only because you know, even though

830
00:57:44.800 --> 00:57:49.480
Jason was a television you know,
ECWTV champion and he's a great wrestler in

831
00:57:49.519 --> 00:57:52.079
his own right. Don't get me
wrong, he really was, UM,

832
00:57:52.559 --> 00:57:54.800
but I felt he was beneath me. I felt, you know, Nicole

833
00:57:54.960 --> 00:58:00.039
Bass and all the girls and all
the side shows it was beneath the I

834
00:58:00.079 --> 00:58:04.400
thought it was kind of just like
smoking mirrors. But I think he did

835
00:58:04.480 --> 00:58:08.960
it for a reason, and you
know, I just think it made me

836
00:58:09.559 --> 00:58:15.920
get better. It made me kind
of taught me how to use that because

837
00:58:15.000 --> 00:58:21.800
the whole thing behind that was Paul
wanted wanted heat, but he also wanted,

838
00:58:22.239 --> 00:58:23.400
you know, people to get you
know, they wanted to get through.

839
00:58:23.440 --> 00:58:25.679
You gotta get through Jason Knight.
You gotta get through the girl.

840
00:58:25.880 --> 00:58:29.639
You gotta get through this one or
that one to even get to me.

841
00:58:30.559 --> 00:58:31.639
That's you know what I mean,
That's like, who does this guy?

842
00:58:31.679 --> 00:58:36.039
I think he is kind of a
thing, you know, because I really

843
00:58:36.159 --> 00:58:38.360
wasn't supposed to be Billy Baddist.
I was supposed to be the guy barely

844
00:58:38.440 --> 00:58:45.239
making it out alive. Hence all
the attachments I had storyline wise, you

845
00:58:45.320 --> 00:58:51.039
know, speaking of speaking of storyline, I've always been very interested in stuff

846
00:58:51.119 --> 00:58:53.920
behind the scenes, the creative part
of it. Talk to us and tell

847
00:58:54.039 --> 00:58:59.480
us how how they told you get
there, We're gonna put the trap on

848
00:58:59.519 --> 00:59:02.079
you. What was the creative process? But how did that come to be?

849
00:59:02.199 --> 00:59:08.599
And how there was no creative process? Literally, what had happened.

850
00:59:08.719 --> 00:59:12.840
And I know you guys know the
story, but I will lay it on

851
00:59:13.000 --> 00:59:20.760
you. Mike Awesome was leaving for
WCW. This was a time where PAULI

852
00:59:20.960 --> 00:59:27.519
was really trying to accommodate everyone financially, because again, this is two thousand,

853
00:59:27.559 --> 00:59:30.679
I believe. Yeah, it's two
thousand and April two thousand, I

854
00:59:30.840 --> 00:59:36.840
remember, and Paully was trying to
accommodate everyone. This is the height of

855
00:59:37.079 --> 00:59:42.000
the Monday Night Wars. You know, WCWS didn't play w W E isn't

856
00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:45.280
play. Everybody's doing business. We're
doing killer business, by the way.

857
00:59:45.159 --> 00:59:51.039
And we had Mike Awesome as the
World's heavyweight champion. Now Paul put the

858
00:59:51.119 --> 00:59:54.840
title on Mike, in my opinion, to try to keep Mike kind of

859
00:59:54.920 --> 00:59:58.960
almost like, you know, treat
Mike as a mark, like, hey,

860
00:59:59.000 --> 01:00:01.400
we're going to give you the belt. Maybe that'll suffice instead of giving

861
01:00:01.400 --> 01:00:06.960
you a big payday, right,
Okay, So they give him the title.

862
01:00:07.199 --> 01:00:09.800
You know, he's the world's champion. And now you have Mike Alwsom

863
01:00:10.039 --> 01:00:15.280
who still doesn't have a new deal
with ECW, and WCW comes knocking and

864
01:00:15.480 --> 01:00:20.639
I think, and I'm not sure
about the contracts so please excuse me if

865
01:00:20.679 --> 01:00:25.079
I'm wrong. But then you know, Mike has the belt and WCW gives

866
01:00:25.159 --> 01:00:31.199
him an offer he pretty much cannot
refuse financially. So Mike takes the offer

867
01:00:31.960 --> 01:00:37.960
and he leaves to go to WCW
with the ECW title. He's still the

868
01:00:37.280 --> 01:00:43.559
world champion. He appears on Nitro, mind you, and I think Paul

869
01:00:43.760 --> 01:00:45.440
filed an injunction. And the only
reason I know this is because I saw

870
01:00:45.480 --> 01:00:50.519
it on like a WWE produced documentary, so I know, you know what

871
01:00:50.559 --> 01:00:53.400
I mean. So I know it's
kind of legit because that's how they take

872
01:00:53.440 --> 01:00:58.239
a worry. But anyway, so
they filed an injunction. So Mikelowsom,

873
01:00:58.480 --> 01:01:02.199
even though he is recognized as an
ECW champion, shows up on Nitro but

874
01:01:02.320 --> 01:01:07.199
without the belt. Okay, he
does like a run in and he leaves

875
01:01:07.280 --> 01:01:10.519
through the crowd, like, what's
this ECW guy doing here? On Nitro.

876
01:01:12.719 --> 01:01:20.280
Paul somehow finangles a deal between Vince
and Bischoff where Mike Alossom who stays

877
01:01:20.400 --> 01:01:25.280
in a kind of like an hotel
room all night by himself, no talking

878
01:01:25.360 --> 01:01:29.960
to Task, no talking to anybody. Wrestle's Task, who is by the

879
01:01:30.039 --> 01:01:36.719
way from and contracted to WWE,
who has been on WWW ETV. They

880
01:01:36.760 --> 01:01:40.360
show up in Indianapolis, both not
without talking to one another. Now we

881
01:01:40.400 --> 01:01:45.559
don't know if there's a double cross
going to happen. WCW security is there,

882
01:01:45.239 --> 01:01:50.000
w R ECW security is there.
It's like a wild show. Nobody

883
01:01:50.119 --> 01:01:52.159
knew where he was because they were
afraid that if we knew where Mike Alowsom

884
01:01:52.360 --> 01:01:57.599
was, the ECW locker room was
going to kick it for real. So

885
01:01:57.760 --> 01:02:00.920
anyways, they kind of get Mike
to the ring. He drops the belt

886
01:02:00.960 --> 01:02:05.920
to Taz. Okay, Mike goes
off into the sunset. He does the

887
01:02:06.039 --> 01:02:10.480
right thing, drops the ECW titles
to Taz, who is a WWE wrestler.

888
01:02:12.480 --> 01:02:17.079
Next week, very following week at
the ECW Arena, we have Taz

889
01:02:17.320 --> 01:02:23.159
versus Tommy Dreamer for the ECW title. Again. Mind u, Taz is

890
01:02:23.440 --> 01:02:32.079
the WWW wrestler with the ECW title. Dreamer beats Taz now Okay, that

891
01:02:32.320 --> 01:02:37.719
night, literally that show was on
probably fifth or that match was on fifth

892
01:02:37.880 --> 01:02:44.039
or sixth, I would say two
matches beforehand, I had nothing on the

893
01:02:44.119 --> 01:02:46.840
show. I thought I was just
doing a run in. Paulie pulls me

894
01:02:46.920 --> 01:02:52.559
aside and says, you're gonna go
out there and you're going to kick Dreamer

895
01:02:52.760 --> 01:02:55.960
and you're going to hit him with
the pile driver and cover him one two

896
01:02:57.079 --> 01:03:00.679
three. I'm like, okay,
how does that happened? He goes,

897
01:03:00.119 --> 01:03:04.760
Oh, well, dream is gonna
win the belt for tasks and then you're

898
01:03:04.840 --> 01:03:07.920
gonna interrupt challenging for the belt and
you're gonna be going a new champion.

899
01:03:08.119 --> 01:03:15.519
I literally found out fifteen minutes before
it literally fifteen minutes. So that's how

900
01:03:15.599 --> 01:03:19.920
that happened, and that's how a
lot of was Paul happened. You never

901
01:03:20.119 --> 01:03:22.840
knew, dude, you literally never
knew. I thought I had a night

902
01:03:22.880 --> 01:03:27.119
off. I wasn't even in my
gear. I was like, oh I

903
01:03:27.159 --> 01:03:30.679
got an easy night tonight, you
know, easy payday? Sweet? You

904
01:03:30.760 --> 01:03:35.400
know I did. I had no
idea that that night was going to make

905
01:03:35.480 --> 01:03:38.400
my career. So that's how La. That's you know, literally how it

906
01:03:38.480 --> 01:03:43.559
would go sometimes, and that's what
happened. So eternally grateful. You couldn't

907
01:03:43.599 --> 01:03:45.400
have gone. You couldn't plan that, you know, And that was the

908
01:03:47.400 --> 01:03:54.400
wonderful, beautiful madness of Paul.
So I always wonder about that, like

909
01:03:55.400 --> 01:03:59.639
thinking about like everything that he did
with the like misfits and like, I

910
01:03:59.679 --> 01:04:01.920
don't paul you were Jerry lennonmis fit. But it was just you bounced around,

911
01:04:02.280 --> 01:04:06.079
you know, you didn't have like
proper opportunities shippers. Yes, guys

912
01:04:06.119 --> 01:04:10.960
that weren't shippers. Well you can't. You can't help that. You you

913
01:04:11.039 --> 01:04:13.960
weren't born at six foot four,
two hundred and sixty foot house. That's

914
01:04:14.000 --> 01:04:15.960
the way it is sometimes, right, that's how they would do, you

915
01:04:16.039 --> 01:04:19.360
know. So yeah, and you
you look at the Sandman and you never

916
01:04:19.440 --> 01:04:23.559
say fitness buff. It just never
clicks in your head. But yet you

917
01:04:23.639 --> 01:04:27.159
had some classic matches. He's bigger
than you. He was a guy Steve

918
01:04:27.199 --> 01:04:30.199
Austin couldn't beat. People forget that
he was a guy. Steve Austin couldn't

919
01:04:30.199 --> 01:04:33.400
be It was all the right place
at the right time, putting that that

920
01:04:33.719 --> 01:04:39.679
that that cauldron together and stirring it
up. You're hitten down there and you're

921
01:04:39.719 --> 01:04:43.199
saying, Okay, the checks are
not going to be as great as we

922
01:04:43.280 --> 01:04:45.239
thought they were. That bad though, people see, that's the thing.

923
01:04:45.760 --> 01:04:50.039
People have that assumption. I was
making more for Paulie when he went out

924
01:04:50.079 --> 01:04:58.239
of business than I was for ww
Love. You know, I've I've heard

925
01:04:58.280 --> 01:05:02.320
the shoot videos where Shane Douglas says
that he makes more being, you know,

926
01:05:02.400 --> 01:05:05.679
a general manager of a Walmart than
he does that he ever did in

927
01:05:05.760 --> 01:05:08.880
any one year in wrestling. I
don't know if it's true or not.

928
01:05:08.920 --> 01:05:14.239
I don't know if he's bitter or
not. I mean, um, well,

929
01:05:14.480 --> 01:05:16.119
actually that's something I want to reflect
on and ask you real quickly.

930
01:05:16.480 --> 01:05:23.280
So looking around those those ECUM locker
rooms, a couple of really important questions.

931
01:05:23.320 --> 01:05:29.000
One, who would you have wrestled
in ECW? That was in ECW

932
01:05:29.239 --> 01:05:34.000
but gone by the time you got
there. Oh, I'll light you up

933
01:05:34.079 --> 01:05:45.440
man. Hell yeah. Well Eddie
ben Wahre I worked with Jericho was actually

934
01:05:45.800 --> 01:05:50.719
funny story. He was my first
or fourth fourth ever and there's video of

935
01:05:50.880 --> 01:05:56.519
this and I've begged the internet for
this. Um. He was my fourth

936
01:05:56.639 --> 01:06:03.119
ever match in Rocky Mountain Wrestling in
Calgary. J Walker versus Chris Jericho is

937
01:06:03.239 --> 01:06:08.559
there. I had it on VHS
and that I don't know where that went

938
01:06:08.639 --> 01:06:11.800
and my mom's I don't know where
it's gone, but there was. Yeah,

939
01:06:12.039 --> 01:06:14.719
I had my first ten matches.
It was p J. Walker versus

940
01:06:14.800 --> 01:06:18.440
Chris Jericho number four and land Storm
versus p J. Walker number eight,

941
01:06:18.840 --> 01:06:24.039
all from Rocky Mountain Wrestling in Calgary. And I would love, love,

942
01:06:24.199 --> 01:06:27.960
love if somebody could come up with
those matches because they do exist anyways.

943
01:06:28.239 --> 01:06:34.360
Yes, but I didn't want any
of those guys. I didn't see any

944
01:06:34.360 --> 01:06:40.039
of those guys as because I worked
with all of them later on in WWE.

945
01:06:41.960 --> 01:06:44.480
I don't know, man, I
don't know who that would have been.

946
01:06:44.960 --> 01:06:48.199
I didn't I didn't want to work
with Jericho because I've worked with Jericho

947
01:06:48.440 --> 01:06:51.920
even though he was young and I
was young. He was just like kind

948
01:06:53.000 --> 01:06:57.440
of a stiff clown, Like as
good as he thinks he can be,

949
01:06:57.559 --> 01:07:00.599
he was kind of a clown.
I don't know, man, he was

950
01:07:00.719 --> 01:07:03.159
stiff, he was reckless. I
didn't enjoy working with him. Um.

951
01:07:03.880 --> 01:07:08.719
Eddie I got to work with in
WWW. I loved Eddie. Um.

952
01:07:08.920 --> 01:07:13.760
Probably Eddie if anybody and ben want
too. I worked with ben Wan www.

953
01:07:14.280 --> 01:07:18.000
Um he's a bit scary not to
be in the ring with. Nonetheless,

954
01:07:18.119 --> 01:07:21.639
but either I would have said,
I would have said Eddie guer for

955
01:07:21.800 --> 01:07:28.639
sure. Well what about let's not
forget Kurt Angle? Yeah yeah, but

956
01:07:28.840 --> 01:07:31.159
uh, you know that was that's
a I think a different plane though I

957
01:07:31.159 --> 01:07:35.440
don't think that it well, I
was talking ECW style rules, so I

958
01:07:35.559 --> 01:07:39.679
was just trying to thinking, like
people that I need to wrestle there.

959
01:07:40.199 --> 01:07:43.920
So you know, it's it's it's
an open ended question. But you know,

960
01:07:44.360 --> 01:07:45.960
I I think about like I would
love do you see you know,

961
01:07:46.320 --> 01:07:49.079
you know the miracle portray. I've
never seen you wrestle ring. I'm sure

962
01:07:49.119 --> 01:07:55.199
you probably have there, it is
there, it is I love to wrestle,

963
01:07:55.320 --> 01:08:00.559
right, Oh my god, that
would be Jerry Lyndon times. Not

964
01:08:00.679 --> 01:08:03.679
because of that, just I think
because of what you could do. You

965
01:08:03.800 --> 01:08:10.000
know, wow, that would be
amazing and started me back. Since there

966
01:08:10.119 --> 01:08:13.599
was no storyline for your title,
win, can you talk to us about

967
01:08:13.880 --> 01:08:16.439
a favorite storyline that you were involved
in at any point of your career.

968
01:08:18.000 --> 01:08:25.680
That's a good question, man,
Um, I really liked and this is

969
01:08:25.720 --> 01:08:32.039
a bit dark, but I remember
because I was always it's always you know,

970
01:08:32.479 --> 01:08:38.960
a lack of sometimes opponents and lack
of good stories. You know,

971
01:08:39.039 --> 01:08:42.520
it always seems like it was me
and Tommy Dreamer, Me and Tommy Dreamer,

972
01:08:42.720 --> 01:08:45.399
no matter what, Like there was
so many times like if you look

973
01:08:45.439 --> 01:08:49.520
at my paper, I wrestled every
pay per view in ECW history except for

974
01:08:49.600 --> 01:08:54.000
the very first one, Barely Legal. The rest I was on. I

975
01:08:54.119 --> 01:09:00.239
was on every single one except barely
Legal the first um and I would say

976
01:09:00.319 --> 01:09:03.840
Tommy Dreamer because I got him so
many times. But the one that really

977
01:09:03.960 --> 01:09:10.880
made sense, and this was Dreamer's
idea, was his grandfather died and Tommy

978
01:09:11.479 --> 01:09:15.319
loved his grandfather very much. Of
course it didn't, but the point was

979
01:09:15.920 --> 01:09:20.119
Tommy's grandfather kind of introduced him to
professional wrestling, and so there was this

980
01:09:20.319 --> 01:09:27.199
thing. And I the day that
Tommy Dreamer's grandfather died, or a couple

981
01:09:27.239 --> 01:09:30.399
of days after, I went into
the ECW arena, cut a big long

982
01:09:30.560 --> 01:09:35.279
promo, you know, saying that
I wish it wasn't you know, I

983
01:09:35.319 --> 01:09:40.520
interrupted the ten bell salute to Tommy's
dad, granddad. I wish it wasn't

984
01:09:40.640 --> 01:09:43.920
him that died, your grandfather.
I wish it was you. It was

985
01:09:44.079 --> 01:09:47.880
you. I just thought that was
so lad because it was really it was

986
01:09:48.000 --> 01:09:53.239
really raw and really feeling it,
and it was a lot of emotion in

987
01:09:53.279 --> 01:09:56.399
the building that night. So just
for me, I'm just I'm spitballing.

988
01:09:56.439 --> 01:09:59.199
I'm sure that I could think of
another one, but that one to me

989
01:09:59.359 --> 01:10:01.600
was pretty that's pretty special because Tommy
said to me, because I didn't like

990
01:10:01.680 --> 01:10:05.079
it, I didn't feel comfortable.
And Tommy says, PJ, don't worry.

991
01:10:05.439 --> 01:10:10.239
He goes to my grandfather and would
be so proud that we're using his

992
01:10:10.399 --> 01:10:15.479
name in a gimmick in the angle, Okay, dream you know, whatever

993
01:10:15.560 --> 01:10:16.720
you want? You know, because
I love Tommy. I respect tom with

994
01:10:16.880 --> 01:10:19.600
all my art. You know,
I said whatever you want, bro,

995
01:10:20.000 --> 01:10:23.199
you know I love I love that
man, you know, with all my

996
01:10:23.319 --> 01:10:29.439
art. Tommy's the best. What
about traveling buddies that you hit on the

997
01:10:29.520 --> 01:10:32.760
road with, anybody you favorite it
to hit the road with any uh nos

998
01:10:32.800 --> 01:10:36.720
of stories you want to share?
Well, um, there's a there's a

999
01:10:36.800 --> 01:10:41.039
whole other podcast we have to do
if I'm gonna get into the Jeff Hardy

1000
01:10:41.119 --> 01:10:51.880
just incredible stories that out. Yeah, that's what I would love to hear

1001
01:10:51.920 --> 01:10:56.880
that. Yeah, it's a wild
ride. Um but yeah, a lot

1002
01:10:56.920 --> 01:11:00.479
of a lot of stuff there.
But I would say me and Landstorm,

1003
01:11:01.119 --> 01:11:05.640
and I would say that because we
were so polar opposite and a little tidbit

1004
01:11:06.439 --> 01:11:12.640
um nine to eleven happened. We
were traveling together, we were on raw

1005
01:11:13.039 --> 01:11:18.439
together and uh This was pre cell
again, two thousand and one, you

1006
01:11:18.520 --> 01:11:23.640
know, nine to eleven. You
have to remember pre cell phones. We

1007
01:11:23.800 --> 01:11:30.359
got a call from Lance's mother at
some hotel we were staying in Texas,

1008
01:11:30.800 --> 01:11:33.199
maybe Lance to him his wife or
something where they were where we were staying.

1009
01:11:34.399 --> 01:11:38.359
Lance's mom calls the hotel room,
the hotel. You know, we're

1010
01:11:38.359 --> 01:11:41.159
sleeping. It's like eight thirty nine, you know, seven thirty in the

1011
01:11:41.199 --> 01:11:45.760
morning, whatever, and she calls
the hotel room and she's like, Lance,

1012
01:11:45.399 --> 01:11:47.560
you know, turn on the television. Look, you know, And

1013
01:11:47.680 --> 01:11:51.319
we turned on the TV and we
still catch the second plane hitting the tower.

1014
01:11:53.239 --> 01:11:58.319
Oh and um, you know,
all that craziness happened. And then

1015
01:11:58.359 --> 01:12:00.560
of course, you know, I
called my you know, we get situated.

1016
01:12:01.039 --> 01:12:04.960
So we're in Texas and we have
to drive. We had to make

1017
01:12:05.199 --> 01:12:10.399
ww had to make a decision,
you know, how do we go from

1018
01:12:10.399 --> 01:12:15.079
because all the flights, if you
remember, all flights in America were canceled

1019
01:12:15.159 --> 01:12:17.960
for a long time. Now he's
from Calgary, I'm from Connecticut. We're

1020
01:12:18.000 --> 01:12:24.720
stuck in Texas with a rental car, not knowing how we're going, you

1021
01:12:24.760 --> 01:12:28.880
know what I mean, not knowing
how we're getting home, and after we

1022
01:12:28.960 --> 01:12:34.560
get some information, WWE tells us
we're in Houston as a matter of fact,

1023
01:12:34.560 --> 01:12:38.560
because Houston was supposed to be the
next day is back down and this

1024
01:12:38.720 --> 01:12:45.000
is all shut out his hometown.
Yeah yeah, but anyways, long story

1025
01:12:45.079 --> 01:12:49.720
short, ww wanted us to drive
from Texas to Atlanta, so it took

1026
01:12:50.560 --> 01:12:54.359
so we kind of had to make
the decision because we had no other way,

1027
01:12:54.960 --> 01:12:57.319
right, there were no flights.
You know, it's nine to eleven.

1028
01:12:57.359 --> 01:13:00.800
Everything is shut down for a long
time. So Ants and I drove

1029
01:13:00.920 --> 01:13:04.840
cross country from Houston, Texas to
Atlanta, Georgia, and he had to

1030
01:13:04.920 --> 01:13:09.680
put up with me. And I'm
listening to and I'm all in my I

1031
01:13:09.760 --> 01:13:13.920
love emo and that kind of music. I'm listening to Lincoln Park Hybrid Theory,

1032
01:13:14.560 --> 01:13:19.800
just lasting landstorm out of the car
smoking weed and he hates weed.

1033
01:13:20.239 --> 01:13:26.279
He hates drugs and alcohol. And
it was just a wild time. So

1034
01:13:26.439 --> 01:13:30.800
that was like probably one of the
strangest, odd couple weeks of tragedy and

1035
01:13:31.199 --> 01:13:38.159
comedy. God there was a camera
on that trip anyways, But yeah,

1036
01:13:38.239 --> 01:13:41.840
I digressed. That was a that
was a wild one. Can I can

1037
01:13:41.920 --> 01:13:45.840
I give a quick sidebar? Is
the day that nine to eleven happened.

1038
01:13:45.840 --> 01:13:48.560
I lived in San Diego where the
planes left from. I used to run

1039
01:13:48.720 --> 01:13:56.479
an auto garage in San Diego,
and the night manager hated cleaning up mechanics

1040
01:13:56.520 --> 01:13:58.920
because he wanted to raise and the
owner of the place wouldn't give him a

1041
01:13:59.000 --> 01:14:02.520
raise, so he would just leave
a mess. And I'm a manager who's

1042
01:14:02.600 --> 01:14:05.960
kind of like running everything. So
I get there. The garage is a

1043
01:14:06.000 --> 01:14:10.479
mess. I'm just like, and
I'm right on the Pacific Coast Highway,

1044
01:14:10.720 --> 01:14:15.239
like across the street is about three
acres of sand and then the ocean.

1045
01:14:16.680 --> 01:14:19.920
At six o'clock in the morning,
I think, if I can remember correctly,

1046
01:14:20.399 --> 01:14:23.439
and I'm like, this place is
a mess. I can't stand this,

1047
01:14:23.600 --> 01:14:25.720
you know. So I just start
cleaning up and I put on the

1048
01:14:25.840 --> 01:14:32.279
radio and they're playing Blondie Rapture,
No Joke Blondie, and I'm like kind

1049
01:14:32.319 --> 01:14:36.039
of beebop into it because I get
down with the little discilly though all of

1050
01:14:36.039 --> 01:14:41.920
a sudden it is a great song. They announced that the first plane had

1051
01:14:42.000 --> 01:14:44.159
hit the tower, and I'm like, what the heck is going on?

1052
01:14:45.199 --> 01:14:50.800
And it's going through everything and they're
talking. Now. This is way back

1053
01:14:50.840 --> 01:14:56.439
when they would still do blimps that
would go down the whole ocean, like

1054
01:14:56.520 --> 01:15:00.600
the whole coastline of the ocean,
okay. And so I remember that morning's

1055
01:15:00.640 --> 01:15:03.960
blimp. Are you ready for this
one? It was a black XFL blimp.

1056
01:15:05.119 --> 01:15:09.840
It's heading south okay. And I
just looked at it and I was

1057
01:15:09.920 --> 01:15:12.800
like, is that real? I
was like, what is that? You

1058
01:15:12.920 --> 01:15:15.600
know? And then while they're talking
about they announced the second one gets hit.

1059
01:15:16.239 --> 01:15:19.199
That's when I go down and you
have all these health joggers in San

1060
01:15:19.239 --> 01:15:21.520
Diego and the Pacific Coast Highway.
I was like, guys, go home,

1061
01:15:21.800 --> 01:15:25.960
we're under attack. Something weird's happening. By the time I walked back

1062
01:15:26.039 --> 01:15:30.199
up to the garage, they're announcing
you know, the Pentacon everything else really

1063
01:15:30.279 --> 01:15:34.960
crazy. And so I remembered I
would always see those blimps go down to

1064
01:15:35.079 --> 01:15:39.439
the south side towards Mexico, turning
burning come back. I never saw that

1065
01:15:39.520 --> 01:15:44.039
blimp come back. Now. My
roommate in the time was in the Marine

1066
01:15:44.079 --> 01:15:47.800
Corps, Sergeant Michael Elwood, and
I called him and he's like, we're

1067
01:15:47.840 --> 01:15:53.279
on lockdown. It's like okay.
And the next call was from my sister

1068
01:15:53.359 --> 01:15:56.880
whose husband used to be military too, and I didn't even know how she

1069
01:15:56.960 --> 01:15:59.680
got my work number. I mean, this was rotary, guys, this

1070
01:15:59.800 --> 01:16:03.359
was mat this was Burth cell phones. So I'll keep this really clean and

1071
01:16:03.439 --> 01:16:09.800
polished. But um, we closed
everything down that day left and I got

1072
01:16:09.920 --> 01:16:13.680
home and we had a roommate in
His name was Damon, and he said,

1073
01:16:13.760 --> 01:16:17.399
this was the first time that the
San Diego Union Tribune had done I

1074
01:16:17.520 --> 01:16:21.039
think a second edition since the end
of World War two, or maybe the

1075
01:16:21.079 --> 01:16:24.880
whole war in Korea. And he's
like, I bought one for everybody,

1076
01:16:25.880 --> 01:16:31.319
and the first page was that XFL
blimp waited and take him down on the

1077
01:16:31.399 --> 01:16:36.560
beach. And I still have it
at my father's house. Understand, I

1078
01:16:36.680 --> 01:16:42.720
guarantee you most people don't understand what
that means. So continue to get home

1079
01:16:42.800 --> 01:16:48.439
and so I feel bad. You
don't understand the gravity of that. Don't

1080
01:16:50.199 --> 01:16:59.479
second printing and all that. That's
a big deal that you know it was,

1081
01:16:59.680 --> 01:17:01.239
it was, it was all you
know, print print was big back

1082
01:17:01.319 --> 01:17:05.000
then. It was. It was
a crazy time then. But anyway,

1083
01:17:05.880 --> 01:17:10.359
so you're stuck on the road,
You're stuck trying to get back. So

1084
01:17:10.520 --> 01:17:13.880
you've got you and Lance going to
two different directions, and this is pre

1085
01:17:14.760 --> 01:17:18.199
having to have passports to go into
Canada Mexico. So how did you guys

1086
01:17:18.199 --> 01:17:24.079
slit? You know? And how
did I could imagine the costs we made?

1087
01:17:24.680 --> 01:17:30.640
We bothing ate the costs a ourselves. We stayed on the road literally

1088
01:17:30.720 --> 01:17:36.239
and whatever however many shold there were
between Houston and Atlanta. But that being

1089
01:17:36.359 --> 01:17:42.439
said, we made it to Atlanta, um and we uh, you know,

1090
01:17:42.560 --> 01:17:45.920
we went to raw on Monday night
and we went live again because Vince

1091
01:17:45.960 --> 01:17:48.239
we you know how Vince was,
he goes we did because it was supposed

1092
01:17:48.239 --> 01:17:53.640
to be Thursday was supposed to be
SmackDown on Houston and we had to cancel

1093
01:17:53.760 --> 01:17:57.119
that. But the next Monday and
you can go look it up when we

1094
01:17:57.239 --> 01:18:00.840
get off with this h the nine
to eleven after Atlanta, I was in

1095
01:18:00.920 --> 01:18:04.800
Atlanta, Georgia the one after and
after at nine to eleven in Atlanta,

1096
01:18:05.319 --> 01:18:11.920
we flew home. And I'll never
I'll never forget flying into a JFK because

1097
01:18:11.960 --> 01:18:15.199
I live up in the New York
area, always flying into JFK or to

1098
01:18:15.319 --> 01:18:19.760
work were a Bradley and flying into
JFK, dude, there was it was

1099
01:18:20.000 --> 01:18:25.560
not a plane in the sky,
and the airports were empty, and it

1100
01:18:25.720 --> 01:18:29.359
was just like it was the most
It was wild, bro, it was

1101
01:18:30.279 --> 01:18:33.560
a wild It was scary and I
you know, just to get back home,

1102
01:18:35.479 --> 01:18:38.680
you know, just being out there
for soul. Those are the things

1103
01:18:38.760 --> 01:18:43.239
when people don't appreciate when you're out
there on the road. We all assume

1104
01:18:43.359 --> 01:18:45.840
everything's going to be all right.
When you leave your house to go perform

1105
01:18:46.479 --> 01:18:50.720
for a crowd, for anyone,
for a promotion, for for a TV

1106
01:18:50.880 --> 01:18:55.439
taping, for anything, you think
you know you get back home safely.

1107
01:18:55.920 --> 01:18:59.119
That was one time you never knew
if you're going to get back home safe.

1108
01:19:00.359 --> 01:19:03.039
And it almost became secondary to get
back home safe because you have to

1109
01:19:03.079 --> 01:19:09.000
worry about all the show must go
on because then then Vinny Man has to

1110
01:19:09.079 --> 01:19:12.760
get a show off on Monday to
atlant You know, it's just wild.

1111
01:19:12.880 --> 01:19:16.760
It's wild times. Never forget it. Speaking of things that are wild,

1112
01:19:16.880 --> 01:19:20.680
and speaking of plane rides, I
have a question, did you think you

1113
01:19:20.800 --> 01:19:25.319
were gonna did you think you were
gonna die? Plane ride from Hell?

1114
01:19:25.800 --> 01:19:29.119
No? No, on the plane
ride from Hell? No, of course

1115
01:19:29.680 --> 01:19:32.600
it was no. No, it
was just that was more like animal house

1116
01:19:32.760 --> 01:19:38.680
fun. Yeah, yeah, that's
seen the dark side. That's just like

1117
01:19:39.840 --> 01:19:44.560
yeah, it was. That's just
crazy. It was a big deal because

1118
01:19:44.720 --> 01:19:47.880
everybody made it a big deal because
it's like that never been publicized. But

1119
01:19:48.039 --> 01:19:54.399
that's that's all the time, dude. That was like a Friday. So

1120
01:19:57.000 --> 01:20:00.359
that's okay, that's that's that's a
little a lot of my rounds. So

1121
01:20:00.880 --> 01:20:08.319
let's talk about the twilights of ECW
and the segue to which you have you

1122
01:20:08.479 --> 01:20:14.319
a career after being you know,
basically busted down to UFA USWA and then

1123
01:20:14.840 --> 01:20:17.640
you know, making a name in
ECW and then thinking well I'm going to

1124
01:20:17.720 --> 01:20:20.079
have a chance here and then all
of a sudden you have the X Hoc

1125
01:20:20.159 --> 01:20:25.439
thing. Yeah, I mean it
was. It was a great opportunity.

1126
01:20:25.640 --> 01:20:29.880
I knew. I thought that when
I went back to Vince for the X

1127
01:20:29.960 --> 01:20:32.079
Factor thing, that it was going
to work out. It really did.

1128
01:20:32.159 --> 01:20:34.359
I thought we could. You know, again, this is the middle of

1129
01:20:34.479 --> 01:20:39.800
the Attitude era, so you know
there's a lot of expectations, a lot

1130
01:20:39.880 --> 01:20:43.640
of you know, businesses at an
all time high. Um. But it

1131
01:20:43.880 --> 01:20:48.880
was, you know, it was
just I I honestly don't even know what

1132
01:20:49.199 --> 01:20:53.439
I think. A lot of it
was just doing to happen the way it

1133
01:20:53.640 --> 01:20:56.960
was, Um, X Pod had
a lot of demons at the time.

1134
01:20:57.840 --> 01:21:00.680
Um, he had he had heat
with me management coming out of DX.

1135
01:21:01.840 --> 01:21:06.079
They were trying to find something for
him, you know, And I don't

1136
01:21:06.119 --> 01:21:10.640
think he was really happy with doing
an X Factor. That's just me.

1137
01:21:10.760 --> 01:21:14.359
I mean, even though we're boys, I think from a business perspective though,

1138
01:21:14.720 --> 01:21:16.520
he wanted to be bigger up,
the higher up on the card.

1139
01:21:17.199 --> 01:21:20.119
So you know, it was just
you know, again, it was it

1140
01:21:20.359 --> 01:21:26.680
was you know, so much was
going on, and what we don't talk

1141
01:21:26.760 --> 01:21:31.920
about is is again the end of
WCW had so much to play because we're

1142
01:21:31.960 --> 01:21:41.600
also dealing with now we went from
ECWWWE, WCW to now WWE all in

1143
01:21:41.640 --> 01:21:45.520
a couple of months. So now
we went from one hundred and twenty full

1144
01:21:45.560 --> 01:21:49.720
time jobs in wrestling to like fifty
full time jobs in wrestling. All was

1145
01:21:50.000 --> 01:21:54.239
within a couple of months. And
I was just at that point I knew

1146
01:21:54.279 --> 01:21:56.920
what was going on. I was
just happy to have had a job,

1147
01:21:57.720 --> 01:22:02.640
and I think all of us were. Again, who who changed your image

1148
01:22:02.720 --> 01:22:12.159
from the you know, the shorts
over the tights to the telling well because

1149
01:22:12.199 --> 01:22:15.960
of Steve Washston had short it was
again I went back to being the WWF

1150
01:22:16.199 --> 01:22:20.399
thing. It was. We don't
care what happened in ECW that was a

1151
01:22:20.520 --> 01:22:26.680
niche product. Um, you know, we have another guy wearing gene shorts

1152
01:22:26.680 --> 01:22:30.439
and by the way, he happens
to be bald, and uh, you

1153
01:22:30.560 --> 01:22:32.199
guys are a tag team. So
he didn't tell me to do it,

1154
01:22:32.640 --> 01:22:39.960
but I suggest that you, you
know, get some matching tights. So

1155
01:22:40.319 --> 01:22:43.239
what do you do right, you're
trying to play ball, you know,

1156
01:22:44.760 --> 01:22:47.439
I mean, could you nest your
look a little bit more and had like

1157
01:22:47.640 --> 01:22:50.800
something a little bit more flash here, because I know, like what I

1158
01:22:50.880 --> 01:22:56.880
felt was like in both Jerry Lynn
were out like outright buried. And I

1159
01:22:56.960 --> 01:22:58.960
hate to say, I hate to
say it like that, but that's my

1160
01:22:59.079 --> 01:23:01.319
opinion. I think. I think
I don't think it was meant to be

1161
01:23:01.560 --> 01:23:06.640
like you're buried, but it just
showed that we were something else. We

1162
01:23:06.760 --> 01:23:11.720
weren't staked and sizzle. We weren't
necessarily about the look. We were about

1163
01:23:11.760 --> 01:23:15.439
the product. We were about the
end result being the matches where they were

1164
01:23:15.520 --> 01:23:18.039
looking for. You know, how
do we present this? You know,

1165
01:23:18.079 --> 01:23:25.600
it's again it's a WWE presentation,
you know, and it's what it is,

1166
01:23:25.880 --> 01:23:30.800
you know, to me at that
point in that era, it frustrated

1167
01:23:30.880 --> 01:23:33.479
me the most because you were really
one of my favorite Russells and to just

1168
01:23:33.720 --> 01:23:39.960
watch you kind of play a lackey
role. It camp like it kills me.

1169
01:23:40.279 --> 01:23:43.680
It did, it did, But
I don't want to ignite your temper.

1170
01:23:43.800 --> 01:23:46.319
I'm just saying the way that's about
the presentation of you and when they

1171
01:23:46.359 --> 01:23:50.039
did that raw where you're walking in
and like x Pock and Albert are making

1172
01:23:50.079 --> 01:23:53.880
fun of you, and I'm like, Matt Blum might be a great trainer

1173
01:23:53.920 --> 01:23:58.520
and a gentle guy. He's never
putting in a seat. They could say

1174
01:23:58.600 --> 01:24:01.680
New Japan, but really he's never
put this in the seat you put seeds

1175
01:24:01.720 --> 01:24:08.640
you sole pay per views for ecw
xpot as a different entity did help do

1176
01:24:08.760 --> 01:24:11.720
that, but he never really did
anything as far as what you did for

1177
01:24:11.760 --> 01:24:15.840
an upstart promotion and what you did
for your mental appisode of changing your character.

1178
01:24:15.960 --> 01:24:19.399
He always played. He went from
Lightning Kid one, two, three,

1179
01:24:19.520 --> 01:24:28.159
Kid six x pot a haircut,
But besides a haircut, did he

1180
01:24:28.239 --> 01:24:31.159
evolve? You learn different matches,
you learn different styles, And trust me,

1181
01:24:31.239 --> 01:24:34.199
I'm not looking for anybody. If
they want residual heat, we'll just

1182
01:24:34.279 --> 01:24:38.159
get more listeners. So go ahead, yell at me. I don't care.

1183
01:24:38.359 --> 01:24:40.840
But when it comes down to brass
packs and baseball batch, which I

1184
01:24:40.920 --> 01:24:43.960
haven't said yet this show, is
the fact that you were the performer on

1185
01:24:44.079 --> 01:24:47.359
a group. I mean, Xbox
still had his athleticism, but he had

1186
01:24:47.520 --> 01:24:51.359
channel changing heat and that's what killed
you. And what is the term that

1187
01:24:51.479 --> 01:24:56.800
we know in wrestling today, it's
XPOC heat. I'm not putting those words

1188
01:24:56.840 --> 01:24:59.800
in your mouth. I'm putting those
words in my mouth and I'm gonna say

1189
01:24:59.840 --> 01:25:02.560
that. And Albert couldn't draw.
He couldn't draw a turn if he I

1190
01:25:03.000 --> 01:25:05.279
mean he couldn't draw. F livee
he had a turn. No, it's

1191
01:25:05.359 --> 01:25:09.560
just the truth, no, and
it is what it is. But again,

1192
01:25:09.720 --> 01:25:14.039
when you're in the WWE, they
make you believe it's you just you

1193
01:25:14.119 --> 01:25:16.680
know, it's it's like, dude, when you're outside of the bubble,

1194
01:25:17.159 --> 01:25:20.279
it's one thing. When you're inside, it's like two different worlds. Man.

1195
01:25:20.680 --> 01:25:25.520
They make you believe, like if
they could tell you that is blue,

1196
01:25:25.960 --> 01:25:30.439
you'll believe it's blue, Like literally
sh is blue, Like they'll like,

1197
01:25:30.039 --> 01:25:33.000
you'll buy into it. The guys
that are at the end of WWE

1198
01:25:33.159 --> 01:25:38.359
are so brainwashed, especially at this
time, So I don't blame anybody,

1199
01:25:38.399 --> 01:25:41.359
It's just it was. It was
the nature of the beast man, you

1200
01:25:41.399 --> 01:25:44.159
know, That's all I could say. So when you look back at the

1201
01:25:44.319 --> 01:25:50.920
careers, what's part what year are
you most fond about with WWE? Yes,

1202
01:25:53.359 --> 01:26:00.239
nineteen ninety five. Honestly, Aldo, Aldo was actually the best part

1203
01:26:00.279 --> 01:26:02.279
of my career because as far as
no not part of my part of my

1204
01:26:02.479 --> 01:26:10.359
WWF WWE experience because I was learning
so much. I was traveling the world

1205
01:26:10.680 --> 01:26:15.640
literally wrestling so many great guys opponents, learning so much. Ninety five to

1206
01:26:15.840 --> 01:26:20.600
ninety six were the breakthrough years for
me in the WWE, and now I

1207
01:26:20.680 --> 01:26:24.600
will I will not you know,
Budge from that, I think that was

1208
01:26:24.680 --> 01:26:28.159
still the best for me. And
if you look if you actually look back

1209
01:26:28.520 --> 01:26:32.399
and do the research, like on
you know the TV shows Superstars, Wrestling

1210
01:26:32.560 --> 01:26:38.279
Challenge, Raw, you'll see that
Aldo kind of you know, he was

1211
01:26:38.359 --> 01:26:42.439
a good little mid card act.
But it was fun for me. It

1212
01:26:42.600 --> 01:26:45.640
was really fun in a great time. You know, I hold that in

1213
01:26:45.720 --> 01:26:48.640
hybrid card more so now than I
did maybe even five years ago. As

1214
01:26:48.680 --> 01:26:54.000
I look back, you know,
that's good to hear that learning experiences.

1215
01:26:54.279 --> 01:26:58.119
Yeah, go ahead, Mike,
No, no, I think that that.

1216
01:26:59.279 --> 01:27:02.600
So after how how were you approached
about being released or or quitting?

1217
01:27:02.640 --> 01:27:05.600
What what exactly happened there as far
as you can say, as far as

1218
01:27:06.039 --> 01:27:09.880
okay, we got a part ways, this isn't working. You can change

1219
01:27:09.920 --> 01:27:13.039
my character. Well, I'm talking
about the end of your your w W

1220
01:27:13.239 --> 01:27:17.000
E run when not well not two
thousand and six, but like the two

1221
01:27:17.039 --> 01:27:19.680
thousands, when they brought you back
for the alliance. So, um,

1222
01:27:20.039 --> 01:27:25.359
it was right before Christmas two thousand
and three. Um, it was just

1223
01:27:25.640 --> 01:27:30.880
a very stone cold conversation where we
you know, you know, thank you

1224
01:27:30.960 --> 01:27:33.680
for your service, kind of we
don't need you anymore. You know.

1225
01:27:33.840 --> 01:27:40.119
It was literally like a week or
two before Christmas and Johnny all and you

1226
01:27:40.199 --> 01:27:42.960
know it's like okay, and how
need you to keep the straight faced you?

1227
01:27:43.039 --> 01:27:45.479
I don't. I don't think I
told my wife at least for a

1228
01:27:45.560 --> 01:27:46.680
month after that, because I didn't
know how to break it to her,

1229
01:27:46.960 --> 01:27:51.399
you know. So yeah, wow, wow, I don't like you even

1230
01:27:51.439 --> 01:27:57.439
go there. I'm sorry, sir, I did not need to. So

1231
01:27:58.119 --> 01:28:02.279
you briefly came back in six right
for the second the ECW reboot, And

1232
01:28:02.439 --> 01:28:09.319
how'd you feel about ECW watered down. Um I thought for as always,

1233
01:28:09.399 --> 01:28:13.159
you always think for a minute that
you may have a chance, especially though

1234
01:28:13.720 --> 01:28:16.960
after that Break One Night Stand pay
per view. You know, it's amazing.

1235
01:28:17.039 --> 01:28:21.039
And if that's the thing, like
you have, you literally have what

1236
01:28:21.239 --> 01:28:28.159
it takes to give the people what
they want. Why not give the people

1237
01:28:28.199 --> 01:28:31.359
what they want? Why you have
it right there? We were, we

1238
01:28:31.560 --> 01:28:36.840
produced it, we did it.
Why not continue? It's it's ego,

1239
01:28:38.159 --> 01:28:42.760
It's that bullet. It's that it's
a hit that makes you crazy. It's

1240
01:28:42.800 --> 01:28:46.079
like why, you know what I
mean. It's like you could literally the

1241
01:28:46.159 --> 01:28:50.119
greatest pay per view in the world
like that, and then like next week,

1242
01:28:50.199 --> 01:28:53.680
oh, we're back to being nobody, you know what I mean.

1243
01:28:54.000 --> 01:28:57.960
It's just they flex their power,
they flex their muscle, and that's where

1244
01:28:58.039 --> 01:29:02.239
it's like you almost got to say
I'm done. Ye they'll always be that

1245
01:29:02.319 --> 01:29:05.239
way, and they'll always be that
way. It'll always be the w League.

1246
01:29:05.880 --> 01:29:11.920
Okay, So let's talk to your
post WWE career then, So you're

1247
01:29:12.000 --> 01:29:16.319
gone now two thousand and six is
gone. And what I want to know

1248
01:29:16.520 --> 01:29:20.319
is, like you have to look
at what is becoming a modern day wrestling.

1249
01:29:20.319 --> 01:29:24.520
You talked about going down to Sean
Michael's school, even though it was

1250
01:29:24.560 --> 01:29:28.920
earlier in time. You're seeing people
like Daniel Brian coming up. So who

1251
01:29:29.000 --> 01:29:32.560
did you see as prodigies in this
young era in the early two thousands,

1252
01:29:32.600 --> 01:29:36.760
besides the Ohio Valley wrestling class,
because you had people like Punk who came

1253
01:29:36.840 --> 01:29:41.119
through there later, but he wasn't
part of that. And you had deal

1254
01:29:41.159 --> 01:29:44.199
O Brown, who was deal Brown, correct me if I'm wrong, trained

1255
01:29:44.239 --> 01:29:48.840
with reckless youth in the backyard.
Um, so, how many prodigies did

1256
01:29:48.880 --> 01:29:54.199
you see? And how many?
Go ahead? I want to hear your

1257
01:29:56.520 --> 01:30:00.800
anymore. I think we will.
And again I'm not s And again this

1258
01:30:00.000 --> 01:30:05.560
is also my how do I explain
that sometimes you just shut down right?

1259
01:30:06.319 --> 01:30:10.960
And I a lot of times I
don't remember, because sometimes you just shut

1260
01:30:11.079 --> 01:30:15.039
down out of just out of just
mental health, you know. I think

1261
01:30:15.079 --> 01:30:19.159
I shut down after that. I
didn't really pay attention to be honest,

1262
01:30:19.199 --> 01:30:23.520
to be really honest with you,
I'm not gonna lie. I just shut

1263
01:30:23.640 --> 01:30:26.319
down. I don't know what it
was and what it is. I just

1264
01:30:26.600 --> 01:30:32.000
knew that professional wrestling was never going
to be the same as it was in

1265
01:30:32.079 --> 01:30:38.479
the nineties. I know something was
happening, something was changing. I don't

1266
01:30:38.520 --> 01:30:41.319
know, I don't quite know what
it is, but you know, it

1267
01:30:41.479 --> 01:30:46.520
just became it became less about I
was We were always taught about tradition,

1268
01:30:46.640 --> 01:30:53.880
about the value of being a veteran
and stuff like that, the older guys

1269
01:30:53.960 --> 01:30:58.119
and learning your craft. It became
less and less than that. It became

1270
01:30:58.199 --> 01:31:02.479
more about sensationalism, more about high
spots, more about getting over on the

1271
01:31:02.600 --> 01:31:05.920
Internet. And then I guess we
never saw the Internet coming. And that's

1272
01:31:05.960 --> 01:31:12.319
one thing the pro wrestling guys on
top never did really see was how important

1273
01:31:12.359 --> 01:31:17.680
the Internet would be, both in
the making and the dismantling of the old.

1274
01:31:18.399 --> 01:31:21.840
So, you know, it's just
I don't think I was ready.

1275
01:31:21.960 --> 01:31:26.439
So to me, after like two
thousand and six, two thousand and seven,

1276
01:31:26.520 --> 01:31:29.159
the business kind of the only way
I could do it, the only

1277
01:31:29.239 --> 01:31:30.840
I think way I could come to
terms with it, If that makes any

1278
01:31:30.920 --> 01:31:35.159
sense, That does make sense.
Do you catch Janny list In today?

1279
01:31:35.279 --> 01:31:39.399
Do you watch? Yes? Oh
yeah, I've watched. I do a

1280
01:31:39.479 --> 01:31:45.680
podcast weekly with Vince russo ever since
its inception, I do an aw Dynamite

1281
01:31:45.720 --> 01:31:49.000
review show. I've done every single
episode of Dynamite, reviewed it and it's

1282
01:31:49.079 --> 01:31:53.760
up on his Patreon and I don't
even have the right information to plug it.

1283
01:31:53.880 --> 01:31:58.560
But if you go on Vince Russo's
patreon, I've literally him and I

1284
01:31:58.640 --> 01:32:02.720
have reviewed number one through whichever is
coming on Wednesday. Um so that's my

1285
01:32:03.319 --> 01:32:06.319
that's my introduction to today's wrestling.
And I do watch I watch it a

1286
01:32:06.399 --> 01:32:11.000
lot. I don't want. I
watch AW actually more than WWE, which

1287
01:32:11.079 --> 01:32:13.800
is surprising. But I don't do
it because I have, I because I

1288
01:32:13.880 --> 01:32:16.399
want to. I do it because
it's my job. I know ww is

1289
01:32:16.439 --> 01:32:20.279
doing great, and actually, to
be honest and to be fair, wrestling

1290
01:32:20.399 --> 01:32:25.680
is at a bit of a renaissance
because ratings are up, attendance is up,

1291
01:32:26.159 --> 01:32:29.960
money is up, so something is
happening. Um you know, so

1292
01:32:30.520 --> 01:32:34.560
I don't know necessarily what that may
be, but I think right now is

1293
01:32:34.600 --> 01:32:39.760
a great opportunity in wrestling to do
something, you know, because the wrestling

1294
01:32:39.840 --> 01:32:43.000
is pretty hot, you know there
it shows in the ticket sales, shows

1295
01:32:43.079 --> 01:32:46.680
in the in the viewership, a
weekly pay per view buys, et cetera.

1296
01:32:46.840 --> 01:32:49.720
So you know, it's a good
time to be a wrestling man.

1297
01:32:50.119 --> 01:32:54.399
It should just show the merchandise that
I buy. So oh for sure,

1298
01:32:55.920 --> 01:32:58.600
well, you know, speaking of
merchandise. So the only wrestling thing I

1299
01:32:58.720 --> 01:33:03.000
own is when I to you on
Wade Keller's podcast about twenty sixteen, twenty

1300
01:33:03.079 --> 01:33:08.720
seventeen, I was holding my just
incredible doll that I got from my think

1301
01:33:08.920 --> 01:33:13.800
ninety nine. But they like the
bad boys. Yes, that's it's it's

1302
01:33:13.880 --> 01:33:17.199
my doll. No, it's my
I should figure whatever and that I didn't

1303
01:33:17.239 --> 01:33:20.279
know what to ask you so and
which today I think I've made up for

1304
01:33:20.359 --> 01:33:23.640
that. But um I asked you, like, why do they have the

1305
01:33:23.680 --> 01:33:27.039
garbage cane of the cane? You're
like, I don't know, like this

1306
01:33:27.199 --> 01:33:30.640
day. Oh, speaking to which, speaking to which, my nephew,

1307
01:33:31.159 --> 01:33:35.039
my nephew Maverick, who works on
the show quite a bit for a colius,

1308
01:33:35.880 --> 01:33:40.319
he would like to know if you
still have that cane or any cane

1309
01:33:40.359 --> 01:33:44.880
from ECW is kind of like a
trophy. I do not. I hate

1310
01:33:44.920 --> 01:33:48.520
to say it, I don't have. I really don't have my fend Rebelli

1311
01:33:48.640 --> 01:33:54.479
at all, unfortunately, you know, but no, it is what it

1312
01:33:54.640 --> 01:34:00.439
is. I don't think I have
anything original, that's for sure. I

1313
01:34:00.560 --> 01:34:04.319
do want to know about your induction
to the New England Progressing Hall of fame

1314
01:34:04.359 --> 01:34:08.840
and or nine. Okay, how
was that brought up to you? And

1315
01:34:09.960 --> 01:34:13.159
how did they make you feel?
And who was in your class? I

1316
01:34:13.359 --> 01:34:15.680
have no idea, I really know. I know it was brought up to

1317
01:34:15.800 --> 01:34:19.720
me, you know, almost as
and and that's one thing that's why I

1318
01:34:19.720 --> 01:34:24.319
don't take things like that seriously.
It was brought up to me almost as

1319
01:34:24.359 --> 01:34:27.800
a gimmick, like as a book, and you know, so it was

1320
01:34:27.880 --> 01:34:30.039
just another way to slap a name
on an event and to get you to

1321
01:34:30.159 --> 01:34:35.000
participate. So again I'm you know, I'm grateful, I'm glad that they

1322
01:34:35.079 --> 01:34:39.600
thought of me in that way,
but again, it's just it's just another

1323
01:34:40.159 --> 01:34:45.119
and that's the way they killed the
business, is like marketing things that aren't

1324
01:34:45.119 --> 01:34:47.039
necessarily real, because it certainly wasn't
real, you know what I mean.

1325
01:34:47.199 --> 01:34:50.520
I got a little plaque, which
is great, looks great on my wall,

1326
01:34:50.640 --> 01:34:54.079
but it really never meant you know
what I mean, Like it's not

1327
01:34:54.239 --> 01:34:57.600
real, you know, And I
hate to say that, but it's the

1328
01:34:57.680 --> 01:35:02.680
best that's still to be recognized for
what it's nice. But I mean there's

1329
01:35:02.720 --> 01:35:05.399
nothing, really, I have nothing
to say to it, because it's like

1330
01:35:05.479 --> 01:35:08.520
that wasn't a part of it,
you know what I mean, It's like

1331
01:35:08.640 --> 01:35:12.560
literally an indie promoter Mark, It's
like, oh, let's bringing just Incredible,

1332
01:35:12.640 --> 01:35:15.199
fantom is she and he'll be induct
you know what I mean. It's

1333
01:35:15.199 --> 01:35:17.760
like there's no real there's nothing,
you know what I mean, There's no

1334
01:35:17.920 --> 01:35:21.319
heart to it. You know,
Yeah, I get it. It's it's

1335
01:35:21.399 --> 01:35:28.199
it's more name credibility, and it's
like here's here's here's here. Here's some

1336
01:35:28.239 --> 01:35:31.039
of the stuff that that I will
share about you with my relationship with Justin

1337
01:35:31.079 --> 01:35:34.800
Incredible, which is basically not really
all that much, it's true, but

1338
01:35:35.239 --> 01:35:38.960
a few years ago on Twitter,
because I was a fan of his,

1339
01:35:39.159 --> 01:35:43.520
I followed him on Twitter and he
had asked about maybe reinventing himself and getting

1340
01:35:43.520 --> 01:35:46.760
back and wrestling. So we started
messaging each other on Twitter about if you

1341
01:35:46.840 --> 01:35:50.199
were to get back out there,
what you would do, and I had

1342
01:35:50.279 --> 01:35:55.880
given some suggestions and you were very
compliant with it and very receptive. Receptive,

1343
01:35:55.920 --> 01:35:59.199
not compliant, which I thought was
really cool. And so a lot

1344
01:35:59.239 --> 01:36:01.119
of times when I throw out when
we would do shows, I would always

1345
01:36:01.159 --> 01:36:08.279
tag Justin and because I was really
proud of the fact that he would actually

1346
01:36:08.319 --> 01:36:12.199
talk to me. You know,
so it means a lot that you would

1347
01:36:12.199 --> 01:36:15.600
actually do the show and talk to
us and understand where we're coming from is

1348
01:36:15.600 --> 01:36:18.439
the fact we want to give you
a chance to talk about your career without

1349
01:36:18.800 --> 01:36:24.520
it being just all like digging at
other people and things like that, because

1350
01:36:24.560 --> 01:36:27.479
that's not what it was about.
This is why you made yourself who you

1351
01:36:27.560 --> 01:36:30.880
are and you didn't sleep, you
know, in a van eating pork and

1352
01:36:30.960 --> 01:36:33.800
beans for three weeks, you know, and hoping to gain five pounds just

1353
01:36:33.960 --> 01:36:36.479
because you didn't want to do this. And that's what people need to know

1354
01:36:36.600 --> 01:36:40.760
about. And any wrestler can say
that, but does it really mean anything

1355
01:36:40.840 --> 01:36:44.840
until you actually hear the story of
somebody And this today is supposed to be

1356
01:36:44.960 --> 01:36:48.800
your story and what we want from
you at Wrestle Magic and more important than

1357
01:36:49.399 --> 01:36:53.479
we podcast. So I want to
thank you very much for being on the

1358
01:36:53.520 --> 01:36:55.560
show, but there's a lot of
things we want to do before we sign

1359
01:36:55.600 --> 01:37:00.479
off today. Rocky, do you
have the battery? Do so? Again?

1360
01:37:00.600 --> 01:37:05.479
This was an X was a into
you to the person um. I

1361
01:37:05.560 --> 01:37:11.600
would like to know in your arrested
career, what was the most which move

1362
01:37:12.199 --> 01:37:17.159
or that you would least like to
take move or bump that you least like

1363
01:37:17.319 --> 01:37:23.640
to take a finisher going through a
table, kendle stickshot chair shot. What

1364
01:37:23.800 --> 01:37:28.560
was your least favorite. Oh that's
a good one. Um, we just

1365
01:37:28.640 --> 01:37:31.600
loved it all because it was hard. I hate it all. I hated

1366
01:37:31.720 --> 01:37:41.000
most. Um God, anything where
like the back of my head hit the

1367
01:37:41.079 --> 01:37:45.039
map, that was the worst.
I always ahead. I was concussion prone,

1368
01:37:45.560 --> 01:37:46.960
so like any time I didn't get
a good whip blash, I'd be

1369
01:37:47.079 --> 01:37:53.399
knocked. So anything that was not
you know, not me, like power

1370
01:37:53.479 --> 01:37:57.880
bombs or anything then go backwards is
no good. So I'd say those.

1371
01:37:58.840 --> 01:38:01.479
Okay. And earlier I mentioned that
you were listening to Lincoln Park on your

1372
01:38:01.560 --> 01:38:04.279
some of your road trips. What
are the bands music you like listening to.

1373
01:38:04.640 --> 01:38:10.479
Oh god, I'm very old school
sound Garden, Um, Chris cornell

1374
01:38:11.479 --> 01:38:16.479
Um, Jesus. I just there's
so much. I just like rocking the

1375
01:38:16.520 --> 01:38:18.600
ball, dude. I just I
mean, I know I'm not doing it

1376
01:38:18.720 --> 01:38:23.520
into any service, but I just
like all kinds of nineties stuff. Pearl

1377
01:38:23.640 --> 01:38:28.720
Jam, you know, food fighters, stuff like that. Just you know,

1378
01:38:29.479 --> 01:38:32.159
you know, stuff of that kind
of generation for sure. Okay,

1379
01:38:32.199 --> 01:38:38.000
okay, And with you doing your
aw reviews and now as part of your

1380
01:38:38.079 --> 01:38:42.600
job, who could you see jumpionship
next? Or who would you think could

1381
01:38:42.680 --> 01:38:48.600
benefit from jumping from a WWWW or
vice versa without speculating contract tampering. Please,

1382
01:38:51.039 --> 01:38:58.760
I think I think m JF would
be great to go. I think

1383
01:38:58.920 --> 01:39:03.600
time is now whether they've come up, because he's not going to have that

1384
01:39:03.760 --> 01:39:08.520
all the time. You know the
position he is in. He's hot now

1385
01:39:08.680 --> 01:39:12.119
and he's just one stemp away from
killing it on his own, so he

1386
01:39:12.239 --> 01:39:16.960
needs to go now that's seen.
You see anybody from WW that you think

1387
01:39:17.000 --> 01:39:21.960
you'd benefit from talking to AW?
No? Because because only because only because

1388
01:39:23.680 --> 01:39:28.199
I think that they you know,
they're they're already in a good place being

1389
01:39:28.439 --> 01:39:33.359
WWE. So to go to AW
would be kind of a you know,

1390
01:39:33.439 --> 01:39:36.079
look, we have Claudio, we
have some more. You have so many

1391
01:39:36.119 --> 01:39:40.279
guys that have come over, and
nobody's really done to shoot it. So

1392
01:39:40.439 --> 01:39:44.439
I think it's harder. It's it's
easier to be an AW starter main' getting

1393
01:39:44.560 --> 01:39:48.760
WWE than a WWE started making an
AW which sounds weird, it sounds like

1394
01:39:48.840 --> 01:39:55.319
the other way around. But I
think I think right now you can argue

1395
01:39:55.439 --> 01:40:00.479
that that that could be different.
I think right now a W very much

1396
01:40:00.520 --> 01:40:06.239
benefit from from some big star from
AW or from w W comp. I

1397
01:40:06.319 --> 01:40:10.359
just don't know who that would be. And they have to do it right

1398
01:40:10.359 --> 01:40:14.560
because they've botched a bunch of boss. Okay, okay, we know you're

1399
01:40:14.600 --> 01:40:17.439
a great talented wrestler. You have
any other talents that you that you do?

1400
01:40:18.319 --> 01:40:27.560
Um, great chef now you want? Yeah? You so? Yeah,

1401
01:40:27.720 --> 01:40:30.960
I'm a good cook for sure.
What's your favorite dish to to that

1402
01:40:31.119 --> 01:40:34.960
is perfect in front of somebody?
That's a trap? There's really uh,

1403
01:40:35.279 --> 01:40:40.079
I don't know. Um, how
about this? What is your wife favorite

1404
01:40:40.079 --> 01:40:45.520
thing for you to maker? There
you go, um, chicken corn on

1405
01:40:45.600 --> 01:40:49.920
blue I guess that'd be a good
one for sure. I make a mean

1406
01:40:50.239 --> 01:40:59.800
seafood and chicken gumbo of a rice
or or or and then I'll accent the

1407
01:41:00.079 --> 01:41:04.279
him with some sliced okra and or
deep fried sliced oker excuse me, and

1408
01:41:04.359 --> 01:41:10.479
then hit the rim of the bowl
with some cayenne pepper. Oh that's nice.

1409
01:41:10.560 --> 01:41:13.960
I like that. I like that
a lot, very nice. Not

1410
01:41:14.039 --> 01:41:19.760
a keying contest, but you know, of course that's between work and the

1411
01:41:19.920 --> 01:41:24.800
kids, kids in life. You
know this at this podcast, these is

1412
01:41:24.840 --> 01:41:27.239
what I do for fun? What
is just incredible? Do for fun?

1413
01:41:27.920 --> 01:41:33.119
Nothing? Literally nothing I enjoyed doing. God, not a goddamn thing to

1414
01:41:33.279 --> 01:41:38.039
me to have a day. We're
just sitting in my room and play Xbox.

1415
01:41:39.199 --> 01:41:45.239
Brother, We're good, right,
that was my day today. That's

1416
01:41:45.239 --> 01:41:48.840
pretty much what I did on day
today. After I could attest to that,

1417
01:41:48.920 --> 01:41:51.720
I think you could feel the vibe
when I'm like, brother, I'm

1418
01:41:51.800 --> 01:41:56.720
just I'm I'm so chill, dude. If I'm not working at the restaurant,

1419
01:41:57.279 --> 01:42:00.720
I'm pretty chill. So you know, I just I love I loved

1420
01:42:00.760 --> 01:42:02.760
me some just staying all the time
being nothing. How old are your boys

1421
01:42:02.840 --> 01:42:06.359
now? By the way, Oh
jeez, I got my twenty three year

1422
01:42:06.399 --> 01:42:11.239
old graduated colleagues last year. He's
working in the finance sector in New York

1423
01:42:11.319 --> 01:42:15.520
for a Rotbridge firm. That's Nick. Nineteen year old Jenna. She's in

1424
01:42:15.640 --> 01:42:21.760
New Jersey working after school. And
Christian is sixteen. He still lives at

1425
01:42:21.800 --> 01:42:26.000
home. It's going to be a
junior at Kennedy High School in Waterbury.

1426
01:42:26.520 --> 01:42:30.039
And he's chilling too. So you
know, all the kids are doing great.

1427
01:42:30.079 --> 01:42:32.960
It's amazing. This is this has
been one of I think one of

1428
01:42:33.000 --> 01:42:36.319
our best interviews that we've ever had, because it's probably one of our first

1429
01:42:36.399 --> 01:42:40.720
or second interviews. As far as
the whole channel goes, I know that

1430
01:42:40.800 --> 01:42:45.439
there's been matt Our channel host,
the person who's put everything together. He's

1431
01:42:45.479 --> 01:42:49.560
all done, I don't. I
think Chris van Fleet and maybe a select

1432
01:42:49.640 --> 01:42:53.920
few others. And if it was
before or after my time, it wasn't

1433
01:42:53.960 --> 01:42:57.319
really much. And Rocky and I
had some stuff lined up for our last

1434
01:42:57.359 --> 01:43:01.399
show on androgyny in wrestling with a
Dream Street. However, Adrian's recovering right

1435
01:43:01.479 --> 01:43:06.199
now from something, and so this
it means a lot to us, okay,

1436
01:43:06.800 --> 01:43:10.880
And I can't bow my head enough. I can't tell you that that

1437
01:43:12.000 --> 01:43:15.720
to talk to somebody that I was
a big fan I'm still a big fan

1438
01:43:15.800 --> 01:43:18.279
of and to have the relationship that
we could talk back and forth is so

1439
01:43:18.560 --> 01:43:23.000
amazing. And when I first approached
rock with this, what do you think

1440
01:43:23.000 --> 01:43:27.720
about Rock Superstar? Honestly I was
lost for words. Um, it just

1441
01:43:27.800 --> 01:43:30.079
came out of nowhere. I was
unexpected. I had to do about half

1442
01:43:30.079 --> 01:43:34.760
of the day's worth of research to
you know, watch clips and just figure

1443
01:43:34.800 --> 01:43:39.840
out what I wanted to ask ask
you justin and then I just I'm still

1444
01:43:40.199 --> 01:43:43.600
here picking myself, wondering if that
when it is over, this is what

1445
01:43:43.720 --> 01:43:46.199
you're going to be real, So
right, well, thank you, thank

1446
01:43:46.279 --> 01:43:48.600
you. I'm glad it worked out
for everybody. It worked out for me.

1447
01:43:48.640 --> 01:43:50.840
I had a great time. Man. You guys made this so much

1448
01:43:50.920 --> 01:43:56.479
fun and made an effortless So thank
you. All right, problem at all?

1449
01:43:57.000 --> 01:44:01.720
Sign off. Anything you want to
plug justin just not really just uh,

1450
01:44:01.840 --> 01:44:05.039
you know, real basic stuff.
Just follow me both on Twitter and

1451
01:44:05.159 --> 01:44:11.560
Instagram at PJ Pollaco. And if
you're interested in any of my pro wrestling

1452
01:44:11.640 --> 01:44:15.319
t shirts, going over to pro
wrestling Tis dot com. Backslash just incredible

1453
01:44:15.600 --> 01:44:19.279
and that is all question. Are
you taking bookings or anything like that,

1454
01:44:19.479 --> 01:44:24.399
or is anything or anyway, yes, okay, if anybody's interested in booking

1455
01:44:24.479 --> 01:44:28.319
me for a for podcasts, for
pro wrestling, appearances, for comic cons,

1456
01:44:28.439 --> 01:44:32.760
signings, anything, just email me
over at Polaco Peter polac op E

1457
01:44:32.880 --> 01:44:38.000
t A. R. Seventy three
at gmail dot com. That's Polocko Peter

1458
01:44:38.159 --> 01:44:42.319
seventy three at gmail dot com and
I'll get back to you right away.

1459
01:44:42.399 --> 01:44:45.159
It sounds like a blast. Now
everybody knows me. I'm the gardener Michael

1460
01:44:45.159 --> 01:44:46.560
Gross, I'm one of your favorites. Well, I hope I'm one of

1461
01:44:46.600 --> 01:44:51.039
your favorites because I just brought you
some wrestling magic. And what I would

1462
01:44:51.079 --> 01:44:55.399
like you guys to do is follow
me at one four four Captain on Twitter,

1463
01:44:55.560 --> 01:44:58.479
and if you can find me on
Facebook or Instagram, good luck you

1464
01:44:58.600 --> 01:45:01.119
find out a look a lot like
see. I'm punk and justin. After

1465
01:45:01.199 --> 01:45:03.119
we go off the air, if
you will hang on for a couple of

1466
01:45:03.159 --> 01:45:08.479
minutes, I would appreciate it.
Rocky T the producer, tell us about

1467
01:45:08.520 --> 01:45:12.880
yourself. Bro, you know me, guys super Fox of Houston, Texas

1468
01:45:13.159 --> 01:45:16.720
at Rocky's Clubs or seven on Twitter. Remember, guys, you can go

1469
01:45:16.880 --> 01:45:20.720
add free on Patreon or Apple podcast, or you can go ad free on

1470
01:45:20.960 --> 01:45:26.359
Rocky T. Follow me on Twitter, send me a follow, send me

1471
01:45:26.439 --> 01:45:30.840
a message and a shout out on
the mailback here on a w podcast and

1472
01:45:30.039 --> 01:45:45.560
I will pay for your first month
of afree listening on Patreon. Thanks for

1473
01:45:45.640 --> 01:45:50.199
listening to the w w E Podcast. Don't forget to subscribe on your favorite

1474
01:45:50.279 --> 01:45:57.000
podcast app so you don't miss a
show, or head to WWE podcast dot

1475
01:45:57.119 --> 01:46:00.720
com and for all of these shows
add free head over to Patreon dot com,

1476
01:46:01.000 --> 01:46:06.800
Slash WWE Podcast. Until then,
we'll see you next time.