1 00:00:15,119 --> 00:00:18,559 Hey, everybody, a couple of quick things before we start. You can 2 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:24,839 reach me at Life is a Gamble pod at gmail dot com or I'm on 3 00:00:24,879 --> 00:00:30,359 Twitter at r WM twenty one and I always like to hear from you. 4 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:35,920 Love your questions, love your comments, and that's how you can reach me. 5 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:41,439 Okay, here is the show, Hey everybody, and welcome to Life 6 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:47,119 is a Gamble. This is episode number six and my guest today is Jason 7 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:55,600 Ladani. Jason is both a very accomplished musician and magician. I find those 8 00:00:55,679 --> 00:01:00,240 two things kind of go hand in hand because they both require a lot of 9 00:01:02,079 --> 00:01:07,239 time alone in a room with dedicated practice. So Jason, Welcome to Life 10 00:01:07,239 --> 00:01:08,920 as a Gamble. Well, thank you so much for having me. I 11 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:14,400 appreciate it. I wanted to ask which came first, music or magic. 12 00:01:15,439 --> 00:01:19,480 Well, they actually came at very similar times. When I was about seven 13 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:25,359 years old or so, my older brother showed me a card trick and it 14 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:27,719 just blew my mind, you know. So that was the beginning of the 15 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:32,400 card magic thing. I wanted to impress my brother back, but I had 16 00:01:32,439 --> 00:01:36,400 also we moved into a place that had a piano. I didn't have any 17 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:38,719 lessons or anything, but I would just sit down for hours and kind of 18 00:01:38,439 --> 00:01:41,680 mess around and stuff like that. And of course I had one of those 19 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:47,319 mothers that, oh my god, you're so good at everything, and date 20 00:01:47,359 --> 00:01:48,920 on. She said, you could be a surgeon, you know, and 21 00:01:48,959 --> 00:01:51,640 if I made toast, you'd be like, you'd be a five star mischelin 22 00:01:51,719 --> 00:01:55,439 chef. So when I started showing interest in some of these things, she 23 00:01:55,599 --> 00:01:59,159 said, well, let's go get some lessons or a magic shop and have 24 00:01:59,319 --> 00:02:04,040 you have someone show you what to do. Or I found a piano teacher 25 00:02:04,079 --> 00:02:07,519 and we went there so and then we kept improving the piano teacher on more 26 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,639 books and things like that. So she of course recognized some of that stuff. 27 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:15,599 But when I was seven is when it started. And they both thought, 28 00:02:15,719 --> 00:02:17,360 I don't remember which one was first exactly, but they both started with 29 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:23,319 and was there a point where because you traveled right as a musician, A 30 00:02:23,479 --> 00:02:27,080 mutual friend of ours told me, you played with BB King? Is that 31 00:02:27,159 --> 00:02:29,879 right? Oh? Yeah, I was on the road for eleven years. 32 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,960 So basically I started playing piano at seven, and by thirteen I was touring 33 00:02:34,319 --> 00:02:36,560 with my first band. It was a local band, but we would do 34 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:39,879 stuff down in New York, City, and I remember being in like social 35 00:02:39,879 --> 00:02:43,879 studies class thinking like, who else in this classroom is going to be down 36 00:02:43,879 --> 00:02:47,840 in York City? Play and open it? As the social studies teacher is 37 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:52,520 teaching me something completely ridiculous that I'll never use in their life. Same thing 38 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:54,439 with chemistry. I'm sitting there like rolling my eyes, going like what, 39 00:02:55,199 --> 00:03:00,719 I don't care about any of this. So I had that kind of mentality 40 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:05,360 super early. But so I was playing with a handful of local bands in 41 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:07,599 my early teens, and then I kept just moving up the food chain. 42 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:12,240 I joined a bigger band that did wider dates, more you know, more 43 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:16,199 traveling, and then I joined Ernie Williams and the Wildcats. I think I 44 00:03:16,199 --> 00:03:20,159 was about fifteen or sixteen years old, and they did a lot more touring, 45 00:03:20,439 --> 00:03:23,039 but still East Coast kind of stuff. My first big one was Vince 46 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:28,000 Converse. That was Oliver the United, that was just NonStop touring, and 47 00:03:28,039 --> 00:03:30,400 then the biggest, the last one was Shimika Copeland. Five years with her, 48 00:03:31,199 --> 00:03:34,879 and that's when we had all the big bands that would open up for 49 00:03:34,919 --> 00:03:38,439 The Stones and Jeff beck As, Richa, Franklinetta, James, Oh, 50 00:03:38,439 --> 00:03:40,439 the whole. Yeah. Nine year I mean, those bands are just constantly 51 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:46,759 touring, and tour management basically just says, all right, you know BB 52 00:03:46,919 --> 00:03:53,280 King has three months in Spain. You're the opening act. So I got 53 00:03:53,319 --> 00:03:55,280 like, like like that, you're going to Spain for three months, you 54 00:03:55,280 --> 00:04:00,000 know. So yeah, there was quite a bit of travel involved in basically 55 00:04:00,199 --> 00:04:02,439 two hundred and eighty a year, and you were home maybe once every other 56 00:04:02,479 --> 00:04:10,680 month. And and is that what made you transition into met magician full time? 57 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:15,280 Rod? Yeah, So when I was a kid, I was learning 58 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:16,920 this stuff, but there was no career involved. I just wanted to try 59 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,480 to fool my brother. You know that literally took like a decade for me 60 00:04:20,519 --> 00:04:24,639 to I finally did one day I'd showed him a card trick at the kitchen 61 00:04:24,639 --> 00:04:27,120 table, and he just was like, took ten years, but I got 62 00:04:27,199 --> 00:04:31,120 you. So I had been, you know, working on my chops and 63 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:35,519 also just playing piano for fun. So I started making money as a musician 64 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:40,319 early. And of course, when you're fifteen years old making one hundred and 65 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:42,680 twenty five bucks for a gig, I mean that's like your feel like a 66 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:47,120 million. I had been making money with music first, but went and cards 67 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:49,879 was still just a hobby, something fun to do, and I would read 68 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:54,040 books and VHS tapes at the time, and of course when I was on 69 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,279 the road, I would show. It was kind of like a secret way 70 00:04:56,319 --> 00:04:59,360 to get in with other bands. There. There's a kind of a politics 71 00:04:59,399 --> 00:05:01,680 and click kind of thing on the road where if you're in BB King's band, 72 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,120 you are the top of the food chain. You know, you're eat 73 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:06,839 in a different place. The dressing rooms are nice, or the green rooms 74 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:12,319 are bigger, and the opening band you're not allowed to like communicate with those 75 00:05:12,759 --> 00:05:16,079 bands. It's like a first class and coach kind of a situation. So 76 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:20,279 but having cards, I was able to perform for some of the guys in 77 00:05:20,319 --> 00:05:26,519 BB's band, which gave me access to BB King and right, so they'd 78 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:30,079 be like, get get that kid, get that little white kid. So 79 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:32,519 I come in and I do like a bridge deal and they all flip out 80 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:36,000 because that's what they play bridge. But no one else in Shumika's band was 81 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:40,920 allowed that kind of access. So I had like this secret but and that 82 00:05:40,959 --> 00:05:43,639 was true for all the bands. I was like my thing that I could 83 00:05:43,639 --> 00:05:46,560 eat and I have all the photos. I've took tons of photos with all 84 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:48,920 these guys. So fortunately I have a huge photo album that I used cards 85 00:05:48,959 --> 00:05:54,439 to get in the door there. But the thing is, on the road, 86 00:05:54,639 --> 00:05:58,519 you have so much travel, so you're eight hours driving or a nineteen 87 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:02,079 hour twenty hour flight to Australia whatever. So the cards was a way to 88 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,079 kind of keep you know. I was working on my chops to kind of 89 00:06:05,079 --> 00:06:09,000 fill that time, and I could read books and do all that. So 90 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:10,879 that was just how I did. A lot of the other guys who are 91 00:06:10,879 --> 00:06:15,000 just listening to music and such, but I wanted to keep my and I 92 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,079 remember we'd go to these amazing places, like we've in Paris for like two 93 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,160 weeks or something like that, and everybody'd be out looking at seeing, you 94 00:06:20,199 --> 00:06:24,920 know, Eiffel Tower and go into museums and sight seeing. I'd beat in 95 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,360 my hotel room working on my bottom deal. You know, I have a 96 00:06:27,399 --> 00:06:30,879 great photo. I'll email te afterwards, me just sitting in my room, 97 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:32,399 just working in the bottom deal, you know. And I remember on the 98 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:34,360 last day, I'm like, well, I'm in Paris, I've got to 99 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:38,319 take a couple of pictures, you know. So yeah, it was kind 100 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:42,480 of an obsession, but that's how I kept myself saying on the mood whist 101 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:46,199 to work on that stuff and seeing the improvement over the years. It also 102 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:50,519 seems like you chose, at least all of the stuff that I've looked at, 103 00:06:50,639 --> 00:06:58,439 you chose gambling slide of hand over. You know absolutely well, it's 104 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,240 just oh my god, yeah, exactly. I don't want to be a 105 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:04,399 magician. The last thing I want is to be associated with like a birthday 106 00:07:04,399 --> 00:07:09,199 party magician, which I don't do. I've I don't do kids shows, 107 00:07:09,199 --> 00:07:13,040 even on my website's sophisticated audiences on I never want to get lumped into that. 108 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,480 There's something about cards that first of all, unifies the whole show, 109 00:07:16,839 --> 00:07:20,839 because the whole show, my act is a card show. So from the 110 00:07:20,879 --> 00:07:24,920 beginning to the end, I'm talking about gambling and things like that. So 111 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:29,439 the whole show makes sense if I'm ripping silks in half and then putting them 112 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:31,639 together, and then putting a billiard ball through a piece of wood, and 113 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:36,319 then making linking rings link, and then then I do a blackjack trick and 114 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,399 then I cut a woman and had like the show, it's all over the 115 00:07:39,439 --> 00:07:42,639 place, Like what am I? You're just a variety magician, so and 116 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:46,240 nothing has any meaning. You're just up there saying, look, a perfectly 117 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:49,000 ordinary ring, you know, another ordinary ring, and now they're linked. 118 00:07:49,519 --> 00:07:54,079 Well, where's the depth to that? But people understand poker and gambling, 119 00:07:54,079 --> 00:07:57,480 and they understand that there's a what is the purpose of linking two rings if 120 00:07:57,519 --> 00:08:01,120 you're going to take them apart again, there's there's no purpose. The coins 121 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:03,839 there and then it's not, and then it's there again, and then it's 122 00:08:03,879 --> 00:08:07,680 not. So gambling is like here, you shuffle as much as you want, 123 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:09,720 I'll show you a demonstration that will help you gaining. For example, 124 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:11,720 black jack, you shuffled as much as you want, you can cut the 125 00:08:11,759 --> 00:08:15,319 cards when I deal out. There's a natural you know, people go, 126 00:08:15,439 --> 00:08:20,279 what the what you know? So I did that because you can earn money 127 00:08:20,319 --> 00:08:24,759 doing that, you know, and which I did. So there's something that 128 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,160 makes a lot more sense about cards. It was nothing appealing to me about 129 00:08:28,199 --> 00:08:30,319 the magic Chris. Now, Yes, at seven or eight years old, 130 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,360 I did have a lot of that stuff, but it passed real quick. 131 00:08:33,639 --> 00:08:37,440 And also the practicality of it. If I was going to be a stage 132 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:39,759 magician, I have to buy a suitcase with a bunch of stuff in it 133 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:43,480 and bring that everywhere all my props, you know, and feed my doubs, 134 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,559 and buy this thing and buy that thing my whole act. I can 135 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:50,919 buy it a CVS right before to show. It's a two dollars deck of 136 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:54,159 cards, you know, And we did that in Chicago, by the way, 137 00:08:54,159 --> 00:08:56,919 we had some issues with luggage, so it just recently I had to 138 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:01,279 go to CV. I was CVS across the street and we bought like four 139 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:03,840 decks of cards and I did my whole show for them. So there's there's 140 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:09,360 a practicality to it. But also there's something much cooler about a guy that 141 00:09:09,399 --> 00:09:11,559 can hustle in card games than there is a guy that can pull a quarter 142 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:15,399 out of you here, and that that's really what it comes down to. 143 00:09:15,519 --> 00:09:20,679 My character does not want to do magic for kids. This is about going 144 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:22,399 into a casino and taking as of bucks off. Look at this. Have 145 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:26,360 you now I didn't ask I didn't ask you, but this before we started, 146 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:30,519 and I can cut it if you don't want to answer. But have 147 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:37,159 you used that skill set as other than a magician? Yes, I'm not. 148 00:09:37,639 --> 00:09:39,919 I can be open about it to some extent. We're not going to 149 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,559 go with the guy's name and the date and all that. But there were 150 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:48,279 some home games that I said to myself, I can't take myself, seriously, 151 00:09:48,279 --> 00:09:52,399 what kind of credibility to have to be on stage demonstrating this stuff. 152 00:09:52,399 --> 00:09:56,480 We're teaching it or writing books on it without ever actually done it. I 153 00:09:56,519 --> 00:09:58,279 wanted to know what that felt like, what are my nerves, like, 154 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:03,360 what does it take to do this stuff? And what is the point of 155 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:07,519 practicing and honing in on all these skills if you're never going to use them? 156 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:11,600 So in short, I used the money that I made from home games 157 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:15,840 as an investment, a safe investment. To take that money that was easy 158 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,360 money, obviously. I mean those kids weren't even I mean I was so 159 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:20,559 nervous. They were watching the game to hold. Like the first time, 160 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:22,120 I been like, am I really going to do this? You know, 161 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:24,960 my heart's thumping out of my chat. I thought the guy next did me 162 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:28,919 to get here? My heart thump? And then I start and like they're 163 00:10:28,919 --> 00:10:31,840 all watching TV. And I finished, and I'm like that was remarkably simple. 164 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,559 And I've got a giant pot in front of me, all right, 165 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:39,080 So that I got over that real quick. And then for I did it 166 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:41,679 for a couple of years. But I used that money to go into it 167 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:46,039 because and I was smart enough to say, I don't want to risk a 168 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,799 felony by mucking or doing anything heavy handed, as you know, so I 169 00:10:48,879 --> 00:10:54,840 just stuck to counting. But I was investing money that was provided to me 170 00:10:54,919 --> 00:10:58,000 by home game. And the place that I was working at at the time 171 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:00,879 had a two deck game and they played deep in the day he played, 172 00:11:01,799 --> 00:11:05,440 so I was able to make some actual, pretty good I made reasonable money 173 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:07,480 with the home games, but I actually made some pretty good dough. I 174 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:09,960 was there until one day I showed up and there were all six deck shoes. 175 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:16,559 Yeah, and something for our audience. There's a very clear distinction between 176 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:24,480 cheating and counting cards, which is not cheating, not illegal exactly the stuff 177 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:26,360 I did in home games. Member home games aren't regulated, so yes, 178 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:31,879 it's it's not legal to gamble anyway. But the things I did in those 179 00:11:31,919 --> 00:11:35,080 home games would get me time in jail. For the casino. It's very 180 00:11:35,159 --> 00:11:37,559 dangerous too. And also it's not even worth it. I mean, you're 181 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:41,600 gonna risk so much for one pot. It's just not worth it. So 182 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:43,240 and there are guys, I know, lots of guys that do this stuff 183 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:46,200 for real have millions of dollars. But that wasn't for me. You're talking 184 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:50,200 about risks. We'll get to that in a minute. But I made that 185 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:52,799 choice early on. I said, I'm gonna stay where I know I can 186 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:56,240 talk my way out of that situation. But when you got guys in suits 187 00:11:56,279 --> 00:12:01,039 dragging you at the casino with security footage proving it, I'm not gonna be 188 00:12:01,039 --> 00:12:03,200 able to talk my way out of that. So I I just could see 189 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:07,799 that. So while we're now that we're to the subject of a risk, 190 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:15,080 I wanted to get to this story about a big risk that you were faced 191 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:20,519 with. Well, yes, the first risk I had was when I left 192 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:24,960 high school. I had just graduated and I was playing with those bands and 193 00:12:26,759 --> 00:12:28,799 didn't I know, I didn't want to go to college or anything like that. 194 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,080 All my other friends around me in school, high school friends and everything, 195 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:35,759 small close knit group of friends, and they were all going to get 196 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,600 jobs with their dad had offered them. You know, my dad can get 197 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:41,759 me in at the railroad station, or I can get in at this factory, 198 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:45,440 or I can get in from that. I knew way back then, 199 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:48,840 after already having a taste of freelance work, gigging and things like that, 200 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:54,480 that working at a job for that many hours and after taxes you get half 201 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:56,120 of it, you know, Like that means, you know, I get 202 00:12:56,120 --> 00:13:00,519 out to calculator, like that means in a day and eight hours, you 203 00:13:00,639 --> 00:13:05,279 made thirty two dollars and eighty cents for eight hours of work. And they're 204 00:13:05,279 --> 00:13:05,919 like, yeah, but at the end of the week, it's one hundred 205 00:13:05,919 --> 00:13:09,120 and eighty nine dollars. You know, I'm thinking to myself, are you 206 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:11,240 are you out of your mind? And you do it as all week? 207 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,519 And I remember because I was doing shows for one hundred and fifteen hundred and 208 00:13:16,519 --> 00:13:18,240 twenty five bucks or whatever, and I'm just playing music, you know, 209 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:22,480 like and it's for two hours. So I knew ahead of time that I 210 00:13:22,519 --> 00:13:28,840 did not want a job like a boss kind of thing. And I wasn't 211 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,559 suited for college at all because I just felt like it's gonna be more of 212 00:13:31,639 --> 00:13:35,080 high school. And this was back in ninety seven, so this wasn't this 213 00:13:35,159 --> 00:13:37,360 was before the whole like if you don't go to college, you're never going 214 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:43,279 to be some movement that happened where the college tuition. So college was still 215 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:48,279 like a reasonable thing to do at a high school. So anyway, like 216 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:52,440 clockwork, I had gotten out. I left sixty feet a rubber out of 217 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:58,080 the high school driveway. No joke, I'm not even kidding. I hated 218 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:03,399 that place and hated high school too. Man. I was starting to give 219 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:05,720 up in like tenth grade. I was like, am I gonna make this? 220 00:14:05,159 --> 00:14:07,480 Because I got people telling me what to do all day. I can 221 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:11,080 see that this is not anything like algebra and calculus. I'm not gonna yep 222 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:16,519 funny thing. I'm in my forties. I still haven't used it. I 223 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:26,360 have not used a single thing yet. So I got a call from someone 224 00:14:26,399 --> 00:14:30,080 that had seen me in New York City at with one of those bands I 225 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:33,120 was playing with. And this was a guy that managed Vince Converse, a 226 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,840 guitar player from Texas. He's got a couple albums out of Texas, t 227 00:14:37,039 --> 00:14:39,799 and Sunset Heights and One Step Ahead that's the album. But I didn't know 228 00:14:39,799 --> 00:14:41,960 any that at the time. The phone just rang, and this guy's like, 229 00:14:43,399 --> 00:14:46,639 I'm so and so. I'm with Mythic Records, and I saw you 230 00:14:46,679 --> 00:14:48,480 play with SO and so, and we want to go on tour. And 231 00:14:50,639 --> 00:14:54,440 I just talk about risk. I did not know any what I was getting 232 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:58,600 into it all. And I he said, it's gonna be national touring. 233 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:03,840 You're gonna do an album and it makes four hundred bucks for local dates and 234 00:15:03,879 --> 00:15:07,360 it makes six hundred bucks for festivals and be NonStop touring, and you have 235 00:15:07,399 --> 00:15:09,799 to move to New Orleans. That's where the band's going to be based. 236 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,240 They wanted a central position in the country because if we don't you know what 237 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:16,080 I mean, if we're living in the East Coast, that means all the 238 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,559 West coast dates are difficult you live in the West coast. So they said, 239 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:20,799 we're going to live in New Orleans, which gives us access to the 240 00:15:20,799 --> 00:15:26,919 whole country. And we bought a house for you guys, and there's gonna 241 00:15:26,919 --> 00:15:31,480 be five of you. And the gig starts like and I'm just like, 242 00:15:31,919 --> 00:15:37,639 yeah, what do you do there? So quite literally months out of out 243 00:15:37,679 --> 00:15:41,519 of high school, and I'm telling my mom, like, hey, listen, 244 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:45,039 so I think I might be moving to New Orleans, you know what 245 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,000 I mean. But of course my mom's like, you're the best, honey, 246 00:15:48,399 --> 00:15:52,480 you know, be safe. But you can. If I always knew 247 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:54,519 you would make it, you know, So but that's a big increase because 248 00:15:54,519 --> 00:16:00,720 you're talking about making a hundred bucks a gig to touring full time. So 249 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:04,759 I was kind of faced with that what do I do? And do I 250 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:08,320 play it safe or do I take this risk? And I basically put all 251 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,519 my stuff in my car. I drove a Saturn at the time. I 252 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,120 quite literally was at that age. I was able to pack up my entire 253 00:16:15,799 --> 00:16:18,559 bedroom and put it in my car, like there was nothing. I had 254 00:16:18,559 --> 00:16:22,879 a comforter, my television, my movies close, it's just everything, like 255 00:16:22,919 --> 00:16:27,159 the bedroom was just and put it all in this car and I drove twenty 256 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:30,519 seven hours straight, like through the night. Yeah, I pulled over to 257 00:16:30,559 --> 00:16:36,440 sleep in like Virginia or something like. And this was before map quest and 258 00:16:36,519 --> 00:16:38,600 everything. I mean, this was looking at an atlas, and I got 259 00:16:38,639 --> 00:16:44,159 that information from touring. Being in the bands. We all had atlases back 260 00:16:44,159 --> 00:16:47,960 then. So the idea of driving to New Orleans wasn't that crazy because I 261 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,840 knew that I'd just go to a gas stationing and twenty seven hours later I 262 00:16:51,919 --> 00:16:56,600 pulled up in New Orleans right to the gig, actually right straight to the 263 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,919 gig, pulled in the band was like starting in like forty minutes. It 264 00:17:00,039 --> 00:17:04,480 was pretty close. Oh my god. Yeah yeah, yeah, but blues, 265 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:11,200 Yeah, but blues. You when you feel like that, you're gonna 266 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,839 play like I knew, like I feel awful. And also you're nineteen years 267 00:17:14,839 --> 00:17:17,519 old. What is it twenty seven hour drive? That's that's not twenty seven 268 00:17:17,559 --> 00:17:22,720 hours today, I'd be in the hospital. But so I played the gig 269 00:17:22,799 --> 00:17:25,920 and that was the beginning of it. We put all our stuff in a 270 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:30,839 trailer afterwards and moved into our new home and went around the whole country playing 271 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:37,440 music. Wow, now I did. We lived in Thibadeau, which is 272 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:41,119 outside of New Orleans. We had this home and that whole thing lasted I 273 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:44,960 want to say, a year before or six months to a year somewhere in 274 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:51,000 that nick where we had some financial issue. There was some business issue where 275 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:56,559 the owner of the record label wasn't paying money on time, and then the 276 00:17:56,799 --> 00:17:59,720 management couldn't send us money, and there was a lot. There was kind 277 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:04,839 of some business and then imagine that a record label's screwing the artists exactly exactly. 278 00:18:04,839 --> 00:18:08,240 So there's something called tour support like the the the And I've learned this 279 00:18:08,279 --> 00:18:11,160 for the first time. You know, when you get these dates. The 280 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:15,759 record company is like supporting you along the way. So the club that you're 281 00:18:15,799 --> 00:18:19,359 working has only given you like five hundred bucks, but the record companies like 282 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,920 padding that and saying, okay, here's a salary to help you guys go. 283 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:27,319 Because when you make the album, we're keeping ninety percent of the album 284 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:32,839 and you know that that that's our money and you get ten the remaining ten 285 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:34,759 percent. So they were making all the money on the on the album that 286 00:18:34,759 --> 00:18:37,519 we were selling, but we're out there promoting the album. So that's how 287 00:18:37,519 --> 00:18:41,319 we were able to survive on the road, because you couldn't live one hundred 288 00:18:41,319 --> 00:18:42,640 bucks a gig got there, so they would send us that money, but 289 00:18:42,839 --> 00:18:45,799 you know, we go check the ATM in the morning and be like, 290 00:18:45,839 --> 00:18:48,440 well that's weird. And then also of course the trailer would break down, 291 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,599 the van would break down. You know, you're constantly on it. So 292 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:53,039 there was a lot of issues there. So the whole thing eventually fell apart. 293 00:18:53,559 --> 00:18:56,680 But that was my first big risk, great experience. I learned a 294 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:00,440 ton and that was my first Internet or not international. It was my first 295 00:19:00,519 --> 00:19:03,640 national stuff where you're just constantly But I mean, I remember the other thing 296 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:07,359 that was interesting about that. I had just met my first girlfriend, the 297 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:11,319 most beautiful woman I'd ever seen at that time, just I couldn't believe it. 298 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,400 And we were only together for like a month before I left, and 299 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,039 so we're in that honeymoon phase. And it was hard to leave her, 300 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:21,319 that's for sure. But we stayed for that for a whole year there. 301 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:26,319 We did this long distance worked out for a year. Well, yeah, 302 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:30,319 because I did it again in two thousand and one and I left her again 303 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,319 and we still did it. We did. We were in a relationship for 304 00:19:33,519 --> 00:19:37,400 six and a half years or something like that, and four and a half 305 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,079 of those or five of those years I was on the road, so it 306 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,440 was just nothing but alone. But even now as a magician, you're on 307 00:19:42,519 --> 00:19:45,799 the road too, right because you do car. Yes, but it's different. 308 00:19:45,839 --> 00:19:51,920 It's different now because everything now is a one off. Yes, I'll 309 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,960 go to I just did Branson's Island, Richard Branson's Island, Necka Islands, 310 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,319 and that was for a week. So that was that was a longer one 311 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:03,359 because you're so far. Actually it wasn't even that far, but you are 312 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:07,000 three different plane rides away. It's not just like I'm flying to Chicago and 313 00:20:07,039 --> 00:20:10,279 back, little small islands you jump to when the planes keep getting small. 314 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:12,000 Then you get on a little boat taxi and take another You know, it's 315 00:20:12,039 --> 00:20:15,599 that that place is out in the middle of nowhere, so it wouldn't make 316 00:20:15,599 --> 00:20:17,599 sense to go out there for two days and back. So as part of 317 00:20:17,599 --> 00:20:19,359 the deal, we said, all right, let's make or I'll fly to 318 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:23,920 Vegas for tooth or I'll fly to California. Just did Kettlen Island while ago, 319 00:20:25,039 --> 00:20:26,319 same thing about four or five days. So you say, these little 320 00:20:26,319 --> 00:20:30,119 trips and I'm only working for forty minutes. So you arrive, you get 321 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:33,880 settled in the next day that then you do the sound check, and then 322 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:34,920 you do the show, and then you have like two more days, one 323 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:40,480 day of just I'll hang out and then the next day is basically chill out. 324 00:20:40,519 --> 00:20:42,000 But then you leave in the afternoon. You're something to fly home. 325 00:20:42,519 --> 00:20:48,799 So much less work, much much less work because you're only doing that small 326 00:20:48,839 --> 00:20:51,960 show. You're only there for the small and there you're kind of padding that 327 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:55,400 whole trip with these days off around it. As opposed to music, where 328 00:20:55,440 --> 00:21:02,079 it's they are grinding you to death. You would get into a city at 329 00:21:02,319 --> 00:21:07,480 three sound checks at four to six, go back to your hotel. Change 330 00:21:07,559 --> 00:21:11,960 the show is from nine to eleven thirty. Go back to your hotel room 331 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,279 and lobby. Call is two thirty in the morning or three in the morning 332 00:21:15,319 --> 00:21:18,119 to go to get everybody together, to go to drive two hours at the 333 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:22,599 airport to get checked in for your nine am flight to right. So see 334 00:21:22,599 --> 00:21:27,480 how there's no and that's non stop. That's non stop. And also it's 335 00:21:27,519 --> 00:21:33,160 not right now I'm the boss. So with Shamika or with Vince, they 336 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:37,920 would just book as many dates as humanly possible, And I don't have the 337 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,559 right to say I don't want to do that. One you're part of the 338 00:21:40,559 --> 00:21:44,599 band, you're on call. But now I'm in charge. So if I 339 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:48,720 don't want to work for something, or if there's there's two dates that are 340 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,359 a couple days apart and something comes in in between, I can say, 341 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:52,240 well, nuts, I don't want to do that because that's going to be 342 00:21:52,279 --> 00:21:55,400 too much. How the hell am I going to get out there and back 343 00:21:56,079 --> 00:21:59,359 and be ready for this day here. So it's much different when you're your 344 00:21:59,519 --> 00:22:03,079 boss because you could kind of pick that schedule and it's very different. Lout 345 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:07,000 in the road you do the gig and then hope you get paid. You 346 00:22:07,039 --> 00:22:11,440 know, here you get a contract, you get paid before the date. 347 00:22:11,599 --> 00:22:15,200 You know, it's very very different. It's very very different because it's corporate. 348 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,480 It's corporate work, so everything's all cleaned up. You had another big 349 00:22:18,599 --> 00:22:22,039 risk that you mean, Yeah, so basically the same thing happened with Vince. 350 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:26,000 So I come home from Vince wh I played with him for, like 351 00:22:26,039 --> 00:22:30,559 I said, about a year or so, and then I ended up getting 352 00:22:30,599 --> 00:22:34,200 it my first job, my first job with a real paycheck. I had 353 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,839 worked at like a golf course, you know, when I was like fourteen 354 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,359 fifteen years old, but that was just cash on the side. But I 355 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:42,000 had gotten my first job at a bank, of all plays. And I 356 00:22:42,039 --> 00:22:45,880 was already of the crooked mindset I or you know, the card cheating and 357 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,319 all. And so here I'm working at a bank, you know, and 358 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:52,279 their security was like on the they would forget to put the tape in in 359 00:22:52,319 --> 00:22:56,119 the morning for days at a time. They'd be like, oh, yeah, 360 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:57,160 this the boss of Blump too, and say, hey, you know 361 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,599 the security tapes I've been running for like four days. Now, Okay, 362 00:23:00,599 --> 00:23:02,119 guys, you gotta remember to do it in the morning, you know, 363 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:07,119 so that they would prop the back door open with a brick so you could 364 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:11,160 go out and take smoke breaks. So quite literally, the back door to 365 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:12,480 the bank is wide open, like you just walk up to it and pull 366 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:17,519 it open, and then the brinksman would show up, and that's the guy 367 00:23:17,559 --> 00:23:19,799 that takes all the old money and exchange brings you in the new money. 368 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:25,559 And that was a quarter million dollars almost like one hundred ninety seven thousands all 369 00:23:25,759 --> 00:23:27,720 basically all the money in the safe kind of was always being rop So you 370 00:23:27,759 --> 00:23:33,079 got two hundred thousand dollars two hundred fifty thousand dollars, and they wouldn't put 371 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:37,799 that in the safe because the brinks guy, they're on a tight schedule. 372 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,200 They can't they got to hit every bank in the morning, so they can't 373 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:45,319 show up and wait for you to stop working and go and open up the 374 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,200 safe and you know this and then get the thing, right, they want 375 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,839 to show up, grab the thing and go. So not only is there 376 00:23:51,839 --> 00:23:56,480 a dope backdoor that's propped open with a brick, there is an unsupervised giant 377 00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:00,799 canvas bang with quarter million. I was sitting in it and I remember thinking 378 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,200 like, man, do I want to there's a risk I didn't take. 379 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,319 I remember thinking like, it would be so easy to just tell your friends, 380 00:24:08,799 --> 00:24:11,839 like just take this. You dig a hole in the wood somewhere, 381 00:24:14,519 --> 00:24:18,000 show up, take it. There's no cameras running bury it in the woods 382 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:23,200 for like five years. Yeah, but I didn't do that. But that 383 00:24:23,319 --> 00:24:26,240 was that was ridiculous. And I gotta say, I'm sure it's changed by 384 00:24:26,279 --> 00:24:30,359 now. But the code to the you don't want to know what the code 385 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:34,200 to the safe was two three four five. Wow, not one two three 386 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:38,079 four that's too easy. Two three four five was the code to that safe. 387 00:24:38,759 --> 00:24:41,799 Oh my god. I've never seen anything in my life like that. 388 00:24:41,839 --> 00:24:45,640 So anyway, I was working at that job and I quite literally answered the 389 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:51,160 phone at that job and somebody asked for me and I and it was John 390 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:56,279 Hahn, who was Shamika Copeland's manager. And John Hahn had seen me with 391 00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:00,200 Vince Converse in New York City and he said, that's a keyboard and he 392 00:25:00,319 --> 00:25:03,319 said, we were getting rid of we're firing our old keyboard player and we 393 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:07,759 need somebody new, and we tore we leave in like a month with the 394 00:25:07,759 --> 00:25:08,759 first tour date. It was in Nashville, and we're going to be gone 395 00:25:08,799 --> 00:25:11,519 for three months straight. Remember one of those big bb King tours. It 396 00:25:11,559 --> 00:25:15,920 was straight three months. So I was on the phone in the bank and 397 00:25:15,759 --> 00:25:21,640 well, all right, because I was getting wind of that corporate nine to 398 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:26,119 five rat race bullshit where I was hired to be a teller. But after 399 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:27,720 like a week's where the worth, the boss would come up and say, 400 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,039 you know what, there's a lot of old paperwork that we need filed, 401 00:25:30,079 --> 00:25:33,960 and I'm going to give it to you because I know you'll get it done. 402 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:34,920 With a little pat on the back like I'm supposed to be like, 403 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,119 oh, oh my god, he picked me because I'll get it done. 404 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,640 I'm the real worker here, folks. I'm the employee of the month, 405 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,000 you know. But I remember when he slapped me on the back saying I'll 406 00:25:45,039 --> 00:25:47,359 give it to you because and I'm like, you'll give it to me because 407 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:51,119 I'll get who are you like you do it? Like the idea of having 408 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,319 a boss to me was just the worst thing ever. I was hired to 409 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,480 do this, and now you're asking for the extra stuff, just like the 410 00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,000 movie office space. We need you to come in on the weekend and I'm 411 00:26:00,039 --> 00:26:04,519 thinking, like, you're gonna give me overtime, So now instead of making 412 00:26:04,559 --> 00:26:07,119 thirty five bucks for a whole day, I'm gonna make forty two bucks for 413 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:11,880 a whole day. Like wow. So anyway, that phone call came in 414 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,559 and I was in that same situation. I was still with the same girl, 415 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,480 and I'm in I'm wearing my suit and my tie and I'm on the 416 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,640 phone and I said sure, and I hung up and I walked out. 417 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,079 That day, I told Mike Boss I said I quit, and said, 418 00:26:26,079 --> 00:26:29,319 well, you can't. You can't just quit. You have to give two 419 00:26:29,319 --> 00:26:32,920 weeks. And I was like slowly backing out of the bank, like quite 420 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:34,920 literally something out of a movie where I'm just like and he goes, you 421 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,960 have to count your drawer and sign it up, said I said, I'm 422 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,319 sure someone will do it. But you see, I no longer work here 423 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:48,240 because just five seconds ago I quit. So that means that's not my job 424 00:26:48,279 --> 00:26:51,000 anymore. And He's like, you can't do that. This is this isn't 425 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:52,960 this isn't a taco bell. You can't just And I'm thinking like, as 426 00:26:53,319 --> 00:26:59,160 like, what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do? Give 427 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:03,240 your detention. Yeah, yeah, exactly what are you gonna do? And 428 00:27:03,319 --> 00:27:07,160 I walked out and I never heard from them again. I got my final 429 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:11,319 check and everything. My older son after high school, he got a job 430 00:27:11,559 --> 00:27:17,079 at a casino as a blackjack dealer. And he calls me up after a 431 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:21,240 couple of months and he says, you know, my boss is a complete 432 00:27:21,279 --> 00:27:26,000 idiot and he doesn't like me, but because he's my boss, he can 433 00:27:26,079 --> 00:27:30,119 just make my life a living hell. And I said, welcome to the 434 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,279 world. Yeah, I just can't that. And I had an older brother 435 00:27:33,319 --> 00:27:37,000 too that I saw that stuff happening. He's eleven years older than me. 436 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:41,160 So I saw that as a kid saying, well, he hates his job, 437 00:27:41,279 --> 00:27:44,480 like he hate and he's slamming the phone down and he's coming home in 438 00:27:44,519 --> 00:27:47,160 a pissie mood, and he's going in on the weekends and hey, Michael, 439 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:48,920 you want to go play golf? I can't. I gotta work, 440 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:53,240 you know. Like, So I had a good learning experience by seeing that 441 00:27:53,279 --> 00:27:56,759 ahead of time and said, that's not delight for me. And same thing 442 00:27:56,759 --> 00:28:00,559 with kids. How much kids is amman, and how much it changes your 443 00:28:00,599 --> 00:28:04,279 life and how it stops certain like he wanted to do this, but kids 444 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,599 kind of thing. And I saw that and I said, you know, 445 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:08,559 I don't want kids either. And people would tell me, you know, 446 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,640 you're ten, You're going to change your mind, and no, I don't, 447 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,920 because I just I just knew that I would have to give up piano 448 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,119 and cards and all that to be to be there for some kid or something, 449 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:22,839 and I just said no. So I left that gig. I drove 450 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,559 directly from that show right to Macy's and I bought luggage and I got a 451 00:28:26,559 --> 00:28:32,640 passport and I was on the road. I was on the road in within 452 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,720 weeks. And I stayed with Shamika for five years, So that was a 453 00:28:36,839 --> 00:28:38,599 that was a big one because we got paid on time, so that was 454 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,680 a little bit different. That always helps were and it was international. It 455 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:47,839 was our first international thing. But that gave me access to serious star power 456 00:28:48,759 --> 00:28:53,799 because Shamika was much bigger Grammy nominee Alligator recording artists, so we got access 457 00:28:53,799 --> 00:28:56,119 to so that I was able to hang out and meet and learn. I 458 00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:00,680 learned how to play the guitar from watching Best Guitar Less Did you ever have? 459 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,680 Yeah, Well, by the side of the stage, I could hear 460 00:29:03,759 --> 00:29:06,880 I could listen to those albums for years, but I couldn't always tell by 461 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:08,440 listening. I'd be like, where's hell? Wherew is he bending like that? 462 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,240 I don't know, that's not part When I try it, I can't 463 00:29:11,279 --> 00:29:12,759 reach that note, you know. And then when i'd see him, I'd 464 00:29:12,759 --> 00:29:15,960 say, Oh, he's on the tenth fret. Yeah, I was trying 465 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,200 that bend down there. It's not going to work down there. So I 466 00:29:18,279 --> 00:29:22,799 was able to look at him and just watch his hands and see the exact 467 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:27,359 frets that he was on and every night for four years or five years, 468 00:29:27,359 --> 00:29:30,720 you know. So those are some tremendous lessons and I would do that again. 469 00:29:30,759 --> 00:29:33,079 It hard, but again, that the same kind of thing if you 470 00:29:33,079 --> 00:29:37,559 think about the risk of it. I'm comparing it to, first of all, 471 00:29:37,599 --> 00:29:40,559 do I lose my girl again? And we still made it through the 472 00:29:40,559 --> 00:29:44,400 whole thing, through the whole And also I have this kind of normal life 473 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,799 now, And what do I have to compare it to. I have a 474 00:29:47,799 --> 00:29:49,079 band that I moved all the way down to New Orleans four and it all 475 00:29:49,119 --> 00:29:52,559 fell apart in six so I just had to kind of go with it. 476 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,559 Well, I'm running out of time here. I want to thank you very 477 00:29:56,599 --> 00:30:03,079 much for doing this for our listeners. I will put links in the show 478 00:30:03,119 --> 00:30:06,640 notes. You're on all the socials, right, I mean I follow you 479 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:10,319 mostly. It's all card magic. It's all card magic by Jason. And 480 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:14,039 let me just say this one last thing before you go, because I'll keep 481 00:30:14,039 --> 00:30:18,119 it under a minute. The riskiest jump of all was to leave music altogether 482 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:23,480 and switch to being a full time performer, because I had to take all 483 00:30:23,519 --> 00:30:30,200 that experience, all of those years of touring, and completely shift to a 484 00:30:30,279 --> 00:30:33,720 whole new field. I knew I had the chops, but I had nothing. 485 00:30:33,759 --> 00:30:37,279 I had no contacts, I had known nothing. And that was the 486 00:30:37,559 --> 00:30:41,319 one that I wondered, is this is this going to work? Because in 487 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:42,799 my field as a magician, first of all, to make it as a 488 00:30:42,839 --> 00:30:48,359 magician, that's like impossible, and then to make it just as a magician, 489 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:55,000 and then also to have literally zero income to say I don't have any 490 00:30:55,119 --> 00:30:56,759 I'm not playing with any bands. I had to leave all that stuff behind 491 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,400 and once I did that, it opened up the edile and I just started 492 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:04,400 doing. And the one thing I wanted to pass on in this podcast, 493 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,680 if anyone's interest, it's like when it's scary to jump. That's when you 494 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,039 know, like it's okay. Like if you're nervous but you're you're super scared 495 00:31:11,079 --> 00:31:15,119 about that jump, just do it. Because on the other side you look 496 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,799 back and you go, what was I waiting for? And all three times 497 00:31:18,799 --> 00:31:21,559 that that's happened, all these jumps that I made, I always remember being 498 00:31:21,559 --> 00:31:23,200 on the other side of it, going everything's fine. It's not like you 499 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,880 make the jump next in a week you're homeless and thinking, I like, 500 00:31:26,039 --> 00:31:30,200 I shouldn't have done that. As humans, we make that jump and then 501 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,559 you have to make it work after the jump, so it's terrifying prior, 502 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:37,720 but when you make it, it's not so bad. And me doing it 503 00:31:37,799 --> 00:31:41,759 three times, that's that was the thing that I said to myself when I 504 00:31:41,799 --> 00:31:45,319 did the jump into magic and performing. I said, I've made this jump 505 00:31:45,359 --> 00:31:51,039 a thousand times and it's always been okay, and it was. So that's 506 00:31:51,119 --> 00:31:53,000 kind of a point I wanted to end on that if you're nervous about it, 507 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,799 and you know you hate your job but you want to do whatever, 508 00:31:55,839 --> 00:31:56,799 you want to be a chef or you know, and you're feeling like, 509 00:31:56,839 --> 00:31:59,880 oh, I'm stuck at home and I got this job. It's just just 510 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:04,160 do it. Just do it, and you'll realize once you make that jump, 511 00:32:04,359 --> 00:32:08,279 you'll be fine. You'll be fine. Yeah. After college, I 512 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:12,720 moved to Vegas to become a card counter and I didn't have a lot of 513 00:32:12,759 --> 00:32:15,920 money, so I got a job as a blackjack dealer. And after a 514 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:20,599 while, I was making more money playing than I was dealing. And I 515 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,799 was talking to a friend who was one of the pit bosses, and I, 516 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:29,440 you know, I told him, I feel like I can't quit because 517 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,039 I've you know, got two mortgages and you know, and he was like, 518 00:32:32,079 --> 00:32:36,680 are you crazy, He said, quit the job. He said, 519 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:38,759 what's the worst that can happen? I mean, if if you go broke 520 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:43,680 or something, you can always go find another job. I could have gone 521 00:32:43,839 --> 00:32:45,200 back to any band. Yeah. After but when you're in the moment, 522 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:49,039 though, it is terrifying to you. But when you look back, when 523 00:32:49,039 --> 00:32:51,559 you look back, you realize that it was this was fine, that wasn't 524 00:32:51,559 --> 00:32:53,839 anything. And the same thing happened to me when I quit music. Making 525 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:58,119 one hundred and twenty five two hundred bucks and local gigs and trying to teach 526 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,119 on the side and all this other stuff and after six months of doing magic, 527 00:33:01,119 --> 00:33:04,680 and I got into the corporate work and then eventually broke into New York 528 00:33:04,759 --> 00:33:07,519 City work. I was making twenty times the money, like it was such 529 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:13,160 like what was I thinking? What was I thinking? And I a good 530 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,680 local. One of the original bands that I had played with. The singer 531 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,480 had passed away. He was eighty years old. He passed away, and 532 00:33:20,519 --> 00:33:22,119 we were all at the funeral and we were walking out to our cars, 533 00:33:22,119 --> 00:33:24,480 and of course it was a great funeral because they were telling funny stories and 534 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:28,920 it was it was sad, but it was also there was a tone to 535 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,960 it where we were telling these stories to make things feel better. And we 536 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,119 all went out in the parking lot and all these guys I hadn't seen in 537 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,640 like ten years, We're all getting into our cars, and I remember the 538 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:39,799 drummer. He was getting into the same minivan he had and I had a 539 00:33:39,839 --> 00:33:44,359 brand new Mustang, you know, And and he stopped and goes, wait, 540 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:46,279 how do you how do you afford to drive that? And I go 541 00:33:46,799 --> 00:33:51,400 I stopped playing the blues Man, and we laughed and we both drove away. 542 00:33:51,839 --> 00:33:54,720 But a ridiculous amount of money. Because I'm my own boss and I 543 00:33:54,759 --> 00:33:59,920 can charge what my rates, and breaking into a New York City market more 544 00:34:00,119 --> 00:34:05,079 high end corporate stuff and being in charge like that. I'm not just following 545 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,880 what someone's giving me. I'm going out and getting it. And that was 546 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:09,920 a huming So I just wanted to make sure that we got that last point 547 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,719 in thank you for letting say that, because I think that's the whole point 548 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:15,639 thing is to look back and say, you know, it wasn't that bad, 549 00:34:15,639 --> 00:34:17,639 and you can learn those lessons from other people that have done it, 550 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:22,960 and when you do it yourself, take a moment to appreciate that absolutely. 551 00:34:22,559 --> 00:34:28,360 And as I said, I'll put up links to you know, your Instagram 552 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:32,760 and your YouTube, and I'll put up links to both the music and the 553 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:38,159 card Magic, which are both just exceptional. So again I want to thank 554 00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:42,199 you for doing well. Thank you so much. Yeah, it's it's at 555 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,760 Card Magic by Jason on TikTok and Instagram and YouTube. I don't really care 556 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:47,519 about the other ones, but on those I do a lot of the magic 557 00:34:47,519 --> 00:34:51,199 stuff, of course mostly, but every now and I'll throw up a couple 558 00:34:51,199 --> 00:34:53,559 of blues tracks and play some piano or some guitar just to fingers in shape. 559 00:34:53,599 --> 00:34:57,320 I still play. I just don't care about trying to make a living. 560 00:34:57,519 --> 00:35:00,119 I enjoy playing, just not the business side of it. But so, 561 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,480 yeah, man, do whatever you want and to make sure you're happy 562 00:35:02,519 --> 00:35:05,840 doing it. And that's that's the secret of life right there. Yep. 563 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,039 And share it with people. That's the other one ship to find out what 564 00:35:08,039 --> 00:35:10,599 you love to do, be happy and share it with people. That's why 565 00:35:10,639 --> 00:35:15,079 I'm doing this, I think. So yeah, so, and next time 566 00:35:15,079 --> 00:35:20,079 you're in Vegas, look me up and we'll go have some lunch or something. 567 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:25,679 Absolutely we'll do. Okay, Well, that is my my interview with 568 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:32,840 Jason Ladany and just a couple of things. It would help the podcast tremendously 569 00:35:34,039 --> 00:35:37,280 if you would leave a review, or if you're listening on YouTube, just 570 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:45,840 hit subscribe and that would really help me out. Now my recommended for this 571 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:50,880 week. I should have recommended this last time when I was interviewing Down the 572 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:55,400 Dragon Wilson, but it reminded me of a show I've been watching that I'm 573 00:35:55,400 --> 00:36:01,840 really enjoying. It's called Warrior and it is on HBO Max. Shout out 574 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:10,039 to Cartwright for recommending it to me. But it is a martial arts fight 575 00:36:10,639 --> 00:36:20,239 television series set in San Francisco in eighteen seventies and full of fight action, 576 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:25,360 and yeah, I'm enjoying it a lot. So check that out. It's 577 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:31,599 called Warrior on HBO Max. So that's it for this week and I will 578 00:36:31,599 --> 00:36:32,559 see you next time.