WEBVTT

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So here we are with America's favorite
conversation of the moment, abortions and America's

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favorite conversation from olden times, federalism. So here we talk today about the

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convoluted nature of the Supreme Court having
to adjudicate over the Biden administration, saying

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federal law comes first, and OHI
an Idaho say no, no, no,

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state law comes first in a case
that clashes with emergency room doctors healthcare

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in Idaho and will raise wider issues
when it comes to healthcare and abortion across

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America. This story is from The
Guardian by Katie Sherman from the twenty third

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of April twenty to twenty four and
discusses the Idaho law restricting abortions and the

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federal law requiring emergency room medical care. So, Emma, you're a fiery

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person when it comes to talking about
issues like this. How fiery do you

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find this issue? You've started on
the person with no understanding of US law.

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So my understanding of this is more
well less based in the law,

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because I don't know what the difference
between federal and state law is. Someone

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else can deal with that later,
Thank you, and please, I just

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read this news with the sort of
an air of despair, especially because every

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article like this that talks about abortion
law has a doctor sort of crying and

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lamenting the disastrous state of affairs.
And I think to bring a bit of

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a smile. Yeah, yeah,
I'm starting to feel a bit religious dystopier

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about it. This is like coming, but it increases with every article on

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abortion, right, yeah, this
is this is following Italy and now allowing

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anti abortion activists inside it's clinics,
is abortion clinics, And it's just it's

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one of those situations where you have
the experts, who are the doctors and

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specialists, saying this is bad and
or fleeing the state or considering fleeing the

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state, and then the US saying, well, you know, there's people's

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lives and there's people's health, but
uneducated Christiom activism is more important than the

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medical expertise. And I'm like,
yeah, I don't get it. I

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don't understand how this is allowed to
be a thing. Perhaps somebody with a

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better understanding of the legal aspect of
this, perhaps one of our American friends

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can help me out. Helen,
you know the law backwards, don't you.

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You don't want yes, I am
such a legal scholar in American law.

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But basically, basically it is is
that there's a federal president that is

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set and when that federal president is
set, usually the states have to follow

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it. They can set their own
laws, but the but like the federal

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law comes first. And basically,
I know, I was like, no,

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no, we're not going to do
that. And we're shaving tenth amendments

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here problems, So we're gonna start
shouting enumerate powers and unenumeratean rights and all

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this stuff, right and that,
and that was the problem with you know

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thor and shit getman saying that it's
going to go back to the states,

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because that's what happens, is that
he kept stands and because it's such a

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contentious issue, and that the Christian
nationalists are basically saying that no, we

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want the states to decide. But
the thing is, though they're willfully educated

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in healthcare and science, they just
want to do whatever their skydatting tells them

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to do. This is leading to
people's lives being at risk because also like

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a problem with this is a complete
lack understanding a woman's health, what pregnancy

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does to the body, why women
get abortions in the first place, what

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actually happens when someone gets an abortion, they they they just have this am

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maagulous sort of like you know,
peripheral idea that it's like, oh,

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like they conceived this issue immaculately conceived
that. Yeah. Basically, yeah,

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that's basically what happened. Because like
if you look at us, like like

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I understand, like I'm a mom, I like babies, you know,

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but there's a big difference between a
psycho and then like an actual human baby.

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But somehow they conflate the two and
then they're like, well, I

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think that it's the same thing as
it's like, no, motherfucker, it's

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not the same thing. Let me
say that, you say that, So

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you say that. But I remember
recently on this show we dedicate that you

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can find the card up here for
where we discussed in vitro fertilization. Now,

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those were those children, were those
you know, right to life,

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and I mean, this is where
it goes when we talk about these how

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far down the path do we go
with what is and is not protected by

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these laws? In Alabama, it
was an embryo frozen in a tube that

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could or could not be implanted in
eitherho it's six weeks and it's a smaller's

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board of strangness. It just feels
very odd. It's not even got.

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The thing is, it's not got. This is it's rotten in Christian nationalism.

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It's not got a good biblical precedents. You can if you're looking for

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fins on abortion in the Bible,
you'll find more pro abortion related stuff than

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you will. So they make all
these arbitrary rules, but there's not even

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a good religious basis for it,
and somehow that it's that's okay with everyone,

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and it's it's just it's just very
very odd. And I mean I've

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spoken to Infidel and Helen about coming
from a Jewish background, and I mean

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there are people who are Jewish who
are challenging these laws, saying in pinges

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my religious freedom to prevent me getting
an abortion. And I mean, Infidel,

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you're the only person who identifies a
man on this panel. How do

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you feel when you see an article
like this? As somebody who identifies as

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a man, seeing this, I
have to say that the first thing that

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I think is that with this being
a law dating back to eighteen forty nine

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and we had our recent fiasco in
Arizona where their state Supreme Court brought up

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a bill that predated the state is
existence. What we're seeing is, you

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know, so many times I remember
reading books as a kid and growing up

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and reading about different people, and
it's like their first wife, for their

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second wife, dial die during childbird
die during childbirth. And I almost feel

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like that we're getting back to a
full circle of where these Christian nationalists really

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do view women as being expendable as
long as they're able to do the things

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that they want. They don't care
because ultimately they want control. Because this

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is just the beginning. If we
think that this is going to stop at

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abortion rights, this is going to
go to birth control, this is going

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to go to a whole lot of
other medical decisions. And why Well,

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if there's one thing that a good
Christian has always been able to do is

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that is to tell you what you
needed to do. And so this is

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just another example time and again,
and not necessarily following it, because I'm

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sure there's plenty of them that are
willing to fly to other states wherever they

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need to go to do what they
want to do, but they are more

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than happy to tell you what you
need to do, who you need to

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like, who you need to dislike, and where you need to fly on

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this issue. Because at once they
were in prior to twenty twenty three,

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they took one woman out of the
state from maternal complications. Now they're doing

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it roughly every other week in Idaho. So this is having very real ramifications

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of people who are able to get
healthcare who instead of getting it are getting

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shipped after other states, and our
lies being endangered for work for power.

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And I mean, you raise a
good point there when you bring up contraception.

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I mean, in the case of
Griswold v. Connecticut, that's not

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codified in federal law. That is
just Supreme Court precedent, in the same

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way ro versus Waged was just Supreme
Court precedent that said that you had the

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right to access abortion. Griswold Reconnecticut, which says you have the right to

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access contraception and you have a right
to privacy in your own bedroom. It's

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just Supreme Court. President, So
you have to remember that you had the

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Supreme Court here the activist five.
And I do love how Republicans used to

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rally against activist liberal judges and then
they get their activist five who start doing

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all the activism on the court,
who say that there is no right to

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follow starry decisives, There is no
right to follow precedent. There is no

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decision being made on the facts of
the case in front of them. It's

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all about I want this to happen. I want this to be the case.

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It's legislating from the bench here.
This case is an odd case for

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the Supreme Court. It's entirely of
their own making. But they are the

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arbiters, as they should be,
of what the law is, and not

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what the law that they want it
to be. The Court here should be

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arbitrating between states and the federal government
what the law is. It should not

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be deciding what they want the law
to be. They need to be deciding

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what the law is as passed by
the relevant Congress or as enshrined in the

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relevant section of the Constitution. When
it came to Dobbs Missus Jackson's Women's Health,

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that was quite clearly before a single
word had been written on a piece

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of paper, the case was going
to rule that way. You knew that

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it was going to be that way. The only thing was was it going

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to be five? Was it going
to be five to four or six to

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three. That was the only sticking
point. Was John Roberts going to join

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the rest of the conservative wing of
the bench, or is you're going to

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go hang on minute, let's not. Ultimately he didn't joined the three liberals

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on the court and when hang on, we can't do this. But it

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didn't matter. The case before them
didn't matter on the fact the case was

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a vessel and it was a method
of getting what they wanted through. And

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I think that that's what is most
disturbing here. We could talk about this

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all day long, but it doesn't
matter if the five people who make the

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decision here pay us no attention whatsoever
when we bring a case. And that's

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the most disturbing thing about what the
court did in Dubs. It decided that

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it was going to have the outcomes
regardless of what was before it. And

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now you have cases coming before it
which are junk Mifer pristone case. It

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was junk. It was one of
the worst argued cases I have ever had

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this fortune of listening through in my
entire life. But basically, six doctors

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said I don't want this, therefore
no one must. I mean, if

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I said that every time I went
around doing things, Emma in and Helen

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wouldn't get a looking each way Tuesday. But Helen, you've heard me talk

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about these things before, You've heard
me give my opinion to you on these

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league things. What's your take when
it comes to seeing where the interactions between

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the federal law and the state law
is going, particularly on reproductive rights.

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In this case, I am deeply
concerned because we had decided back in the

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nineteen seventies that the state could no
longer want with the privacy law, which

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is fucking very disturbing where that's going. And also as well was basically like

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a person has a right to privacy
and their ability to access healthcare, and

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now the state is coming going go, no, you don't get to have

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that right anymore, Like we're going
to decide what is better for you now.

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And basically what this says is that
if, for example, like and

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I've heard this also from republic Ampundance, which drives me crazy, that like

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if a state is blue or more
liberal or has abortional legal inner states,

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like oh, a woman can just
go to that state and have an abortion.

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Okay, Well, that costs money
and time and this is discriminatory,

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and this shows the racism and the
sexism of this particular law when it comes

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down to the state, because a
lot of people can not access the money

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and funds to move to another state
to for that sake, to perform an

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abortion. And that's a problem.
And the reason why it's a fucking problem

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is because because this tends to target
poor people that don't have access to healthcare,

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don't have access like if you make
like let's say you have to take

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three days off and you don't know
if you're going to have complications from having

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the procedure, you're going to lose
time at work. So that's also something

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and it leads into the like,
let me finish my thought real fast,

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like, and that leads into another
issue of this is this is not so

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much about you know, like we're
trying to preserve life. This is like

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we're trying to control your body and
make sure that you're going to be a

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brood mare. It has nothing to
do carrying about women's health. What they

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need to make sure, like even
if they were going to have a pregnancy,

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that make sure that they have access
to the healthcare to make their sure

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that pregnancy comes to fruition that the
baby is healthy and the person has access

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to the resources that they will need
after the baby is born. They are

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pro birth and they're not about pro
life. And that's the reason why this

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is such a problem when we're talking
about the state rights, because basically,

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if you're still stuck in the state
that you're living in, even if you

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like, let's say you go to
California and you know, you get an

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abortion, but you live in another
state were it's not you have to go

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back to that state, that doesn't
mean that you're going to get access to

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the care that you need where you
might get in another state that you do

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need it for it. And that's
where this gets really like gets very dicey,

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and it's not as simple as people
want to think it is. That's

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my problem. I say, I
saw a map the other day because now

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Florida's got a six week abortion banning
form some people the closest states they can

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go to some parts in the country, it's Michigan, Illinois, Mexico.

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In some parts of America. I
mean, I always fairly believe that in

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America have the right to travel.
This feels like you're being forced to travel

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and I wanted to I wanted to
pick up something that is picked up on

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here when it comes to reproductive rights. And I wanted to ask infidel here,

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do you think that there will ever
be a restriction on male reproductive rights

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in the same way that there will
be on female reproductive rights? So do

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you think that states could go off
to vos ectomies for example? Well,

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I would use a shirt. I
hate to narrow down my politics to it

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what's on a T shirt? But
Ray has a shirt that says regulate your

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dick. That's her response to the
whole abortion issue. And well, with

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that in mind, no, not
at all. It'll take a complete upside

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down twist before we start talking about
male responsibility, even in the close to

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the same breath, even though we're
talking about a relatively minor procedure. No,

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that's not going to happen. One
other thing I wanted to say real

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quick, was you mentioned it's not
as easy as going from one state to

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another. Hell and I believe you
may been on the panel and we covered

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the twelve year old girl who in
Mississippi who was raped, had the baby

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at thirteen and because her mother literally
was on the support system, and unable

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to afford to go to Tennessee where
at that point it was legal, which

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I don't think it is now.
And Emma, I was just wondering what

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you might have to say. I
mean, it's it's just apparently disgusting.

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I I think it's kind of funny
as well, and something that is well

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funny quote unquote, not funny,
not half funny, but m hm m

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hmm, kind of funny that you
don't even have to you don't even have

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to go to like discussing male reproductive
like health options to see the hypocrisy because

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there's a long list of Republican anti
abortion activists who have paid for their mistress's

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ex wives, et cetera, to
have abortions. It's not it's not even

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about you know. I do have
a question, So what is You're selfish

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like I am curious, like what
is the like in England, what is

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the law regarding abortion? Is it
is the access? Is there any restrictions?

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Opinion of two doctors? Okay,
so if you can get the opinion

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of two doctors and it's up to
t four weeks. But the UK is

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quite strange when it comes to that, because if you're past twenty four weeks

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and you'll give birth to a non
viable you have a non viable birth,

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then you have what's known in law
as a still birth, and you have

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to legally ridged that in the same
way you would have registered live birth.

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So Britain is very odd when it
comes to strange one. Yeah, so

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Britain's abortion laws go back to the
nineteen sixties and they've very rarely been updated

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and it's just not something And I
think Emma would agree with me here.

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You don't really see abortion really shouted
about in politics in Britain. I mean,

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David Cameron kind of brought it up
on a free vote and everyone just

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went okay, we've done that and
kind of moved on. Would you agree

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there, Yeah, it's just not
really a massive discussion here. I don't

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know, it just doesn't. But
then I worry because we frequently seem to

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take our cues and all over the
last ten years from US culture, and

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the argument seem to lead to maintain, you know, not being an issue.

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But I fear even talking about it
might jinx it. And if you

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want to talk more about this issue, you can find out how to talk

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more on the nonprofits Facebook page,