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Hello, and welcome to Open Mind
UFO Radio. I am your host,

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Alejandro Rojas, and I am with
Martin Spaceman Willis Spacey or Spaceman Spaceman.

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That's I'll take that. It's space
talk about the eclipse. It's more accurate

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today. I think it's pretty fitting. Actually. Yeah, so the eclipse,

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at least in many places as we
speak, has either just peaked or

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is just about to. I think
it already did out here in Arizona,

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which isn't saying much because we couldn't
really see a lot of it a bit,

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you know, when I did see
some, uh, and I got

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kind of an interesting photo on my
phone with it. But yeah, I

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was just watching in Hopkinsville, Kentucky, where there's a huge they're calling it

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Eclipsville there. There's a huge group
of people camping out there and it just

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peaked there where they were completely dark. They you know, they were in

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the path of where they could see
the whole thing. Any Kelly Hopkinsville situation

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going on in the dark there,
no that Yeah, well, yeah,

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there are lots of people outside having
fun. But yes, that is where

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and it's in my lecture in fact, Well, yeah, you could go

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see it at UFO Congress Videos dot
com. But you can see my lecture

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on Strange Alien Cases, and I
talk about the Chilly Hopkinsville case, a

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very important case in the fifty where
fifties where it essentially made the Little Green

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Men saying more prominent and famous.
And I'm gonna be talking about that also

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at Devil's Tower next month. Oh
wow, you know that's one of my

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cases that are really I'm fascinated by
that case by Kelly the incident. You

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know that they were up on the
roof and they were shooting at him and

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oh it was just really case,
quite amazing. They were horrified too.

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Yeah, I'll be talking about that
at the Devil's Tower Rendezvous, which is

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gonna be at Devil's Tower in honor
of the fortieth anniversary of Close Encounters.

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I'm really excited about this. It's
gonna be in Hewlett, Wyoming, and

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you can go to Devil's Tower UFO
Rendezvous dot com to see more about it.

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But Janharzan Mark D'Antonio told me about
that. Well, I don't think

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I told the listeners though. Debbie
Ziegelmeyer, Chuck Ukowski, Travis Walton,

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and Richard beckwith will all be there
speaking. I'm excited because I'm gonna be

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talking about Spilberg and so I'll be
talking about the Kelly Hopkinsville event because that

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inspired Spilberg many of his movies.
Wow, I don't know if I knew

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that. That's interesting if you would
have saw my lecture, but I don't

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think you made it to the conference. You should see the lecture because if

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you're interested in that, you would
love it. Otherwise, maybe this one

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will get recorded and I'll be able
to to upload that or something. But

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yeah, yeah, right, So
what's the date on that September fourteenth through

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the sixteenth. And yeah, I'm
a big spill Brick fan and I've been

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following all of his UFO interests,
so I've accumulated a lot of information and

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videos of him talking about UFOs.
So yeah, I'm excited for the opportunity.

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Right. Great, But speaking back
to the eclipse, like, can

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you see a lot of it?
I mean, is it really cool where

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you are? Well? I downloaded
the iPhone app that Jeffrey Bennett, the

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astrophysicist that you and I both know, he created the app and it shows

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that as we speak right now,
it's peaked in my area in the state

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of Maine. It peaks at two
forty three, and that's about when we're

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talking right now. So I just
went looked at it and did the pinhole

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thing, and I can see most
of the sun, but it does look

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you know, the sky looks like
it's really cloudy. You know, it's

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kind of dim looking. Is that
what you saw to kind of? But

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the pin hole thing, the best
thing is to get the glasses at by

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far so you could see something,
because otherwise the pinhole thing, which is

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kind of what I did, is
boring. I've done that before. But

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really, unless you're like really close, it's it's kind of just like any

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other, you know, eclipse.
But what's amazing about this? And I

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do regret it not going to somewhere
where I could be with the full eclipse.

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And I know I'm going to regret
this for a long time, but

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hopefully I can. Maybe I'll have
to go to another country to get that

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opportunity sometime. Yeah, I know. It's it's funny how it just did

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a swath right across the country and
people are gathering, you know, had

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you know, they're from Salem,
Oregon all the way across the country.

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Mm hmmm. Cool cool stuff.
Now, Also, what's cool about this

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if you go to the Google search, of course they're featuring just Google dot

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com. They're featuring the eclipse on
their little thing on the top, as

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they usually do, you know,
the little graphic they feature what's going on.

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So the eclipse is huge, so
of course they're featuring that. But

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what's funny is aliens are involved.
So if you go look at the Google

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graphic, it's super cool. It's
essentially aliens bouncing the moon back and forth.

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Little green man and there too.
Hm hmm. Pretty cool. So

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what's funny about this too is,
of course there are a lot of conspiracy

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theories about the moon and the moon
being artificial and being brought here by aliens

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and that sort of thing, and
largely because of this extraordinary phenomena that the

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moon. So the Sun is four
hundred times larger than the moon. How

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Ever, the Sun is four hundred
times further away than the moon, and

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that's awfully coincidental, because that's what
that's what makes this opportunity of what's happening

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today be possible, is that coincidentally, those two factors make it so this

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small object can pass in front of
this humongous object and appear to be the

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exact same size. Isn't that something? So you know, eventually, I

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say, the moon moves away a
little bit, so we't, well,

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this, this type of eclipse isn't
going to happen for a long time,

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right again, Well it will,
but not I guess in the United States.

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What was unique about this one is
that it the epicenter, you know,

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the place where it's completely covered,
swept through the United States and only

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the United States. And that's what
made it really unique. Wow. I

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didn't know that. Wow. That's
and a great opportunity for those in this

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country to go get off our butts
and not get mucked up in daily life

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like you and I did and missed. Yeah, what the hell? But

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this is really funny too. Another
coincidence that you brought up, Jeffrey Bennett.

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Okay, and here's why. So
the twenty fourteen videos we have not

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uploaded because they haven't been ready to
our video on demand. So we have

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almost every other year and almost all
of them for every other year, but

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we haven't don't have twenty fourteen.
So I started working on that and literally

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or as Rob Low says in Parks
and Rex. Literally literally right before I

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came over here to get on the
phone with you, I began uploading Jeffrey

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Bennett's talk at the UFO Congress in
twenty fourteen. Wow, that's pretty spooky.

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That is kind of weird. And
then you bring him up. I

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know, wow, WHOA he was
great too. I loved his talk.

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I think it is so good.
Jeffrey Bennett is an astrophysicist. He's a

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mainstream science guy. However, he's
open, he's into he likes the topic

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of UFOs. He's open to the
possibility of ET visitation, as he says,

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and I think the panel from twenty
fourteen he was asked that specifically,

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and I can't remember if he did
it in his talk. However, what

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is interesting about his talk is a
lot of theoretical, a lot of you

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know, kind of theorizing or pondering
exists what extraterrestrial civilizations might be like from

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a scientific perspective, and looking at
ourselves and technology, and a big question

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is are we even going to make
it? You know, to write how

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long are we going to be able
to survive? So some really it was

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an amazing talk, one of my
favorite talks of that year. So that's

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getting up and that's going to be
in the video on demand soon. You

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know. One of my favorite sayings
of Jefferies is he was also a visiting

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scientist at NASA too as well.
One of my favorite sayings is that he

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and some colleagues have talked, you
know, quietly about this situation that they

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think that if any intelligence can get
through the bottleneck of technology without blowing themselves

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up, they will indeed be traveling
the stars. Yeah. Yeah, well

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it's a really cool concept and he
kind of talks about that at length on

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this lecture. M h, really
cool stuff. Yeah, he's great.

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So there was another coincidence. Oh
no, there wasn't another coincidence. But

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I have another update. Okay,
ready for this one. Yeah, I'm

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moving on from the eclipse, which
is cool stuff. And of course people

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are hoping to see some UFOs and
stuff. And I'm sure some people will

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claim to you whether they not are
truly anomalous or not, that we'll find

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out, I guess. But so
I guess where I'm going to be in

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a week from today, let's see, that would be near the end of

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August. I have no idea Mars. I knew it. It was right

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on the tip of my tongue.
No, sir, So what do you

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mean did you really think you thought
I was going to be on Mars?

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Not really. Yeah, these wild
claims you know of people going to Mars.

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I'll be able to confirm them or
not next week. No, actually

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I will be on Mars. But
it's actually the set of Mars. But

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although I'm not traveling all the way
to Mars, it is far. It

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is Budapest. Are you serious.
Yeah, so you'd be traveling to Budapest

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for like three days or not even
that. The traveling will be two of

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those three days to go to the
set of Mars. So, you know,

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the Science Channel has had this Mars
series going and really cool series,

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and they're starting to shoot for the
second season, and so I've been invited

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to come out for that to check
it out, do some social media kind

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of fun stuff, and then write
some stuff online. And so, yeah,

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the set of Mars for the Mars
TV show in Budapest. Amazing.

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You know, you have the greatest
life, you really do. I don't

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know, Well, you get to
do some amazing things. I do,

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get to do some fun stuff,
and you know what, what's funny is

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a lot of this stuff it's and
I guess it's it's this is journalism and

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people. I think this is one
thing people should understand about journalism and doing

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all this sort of thing is that
it doesn't pay. It's fun, but

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it doesn't pay. So a lot
of journalists or a lot of people like

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a friend of mine, Aaron Sager's, he does the coolest stuff. He's

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hanging out with you know, stars, and he mostly does He's spoken at

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the twenty fourteen UFO Congress also,
but he does all of these like conferences

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where he does panels for sci fi
conferences and comic book conferences and stuff like

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that. So yeah, sometimes you
get to do our Ben Hansen, for

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example, he gets to do lots
of fun stuff, but it's not like

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at pays, which is a big
struggle for him because he's trying to start

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a family. But it is fun
stuff, but there's a sacrifice. So

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it just means, you know,
you got to be able to willing to

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do some of this kind of stuff
without compensation, essentially, but for the

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adventure of it. And I'm all
four of that. Yeah, oh yeah,

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I mean you really got to You
know, when you have a family,

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you know you have priorities. You
know that I can understand the struggling,

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but also the independence and to be
able to to do exciting things is

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very alluring, very hard to say
no to. Awesome. Who's the guest

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today? Oh, good question.
That's a wonderful question. It's probably something

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I should have started off with,
but such exciting stuff with the eclipse and

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everything. Richard Hoffman is my guest
today. Oh yeah, yeah. I've

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had him on before and he's part
of the Scientific Coalition for Euphrology, which

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is an organization that was created actually
to investigate that Puerto Rico Ufo case.

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So I've had him on before to
talk about that case, which is pretty

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exciting. However, what we're going
to be talking about today is an article

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that some of you might have seen
on Openminds dot tv talking about the Spooklights

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of Cloverdale. So there's a place
in Alabama which is where he, until

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recently was this eight director of Moufon. He's actually been in Moufon since it

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started, literally, but he resigned
recently because he's wanted He's very into the

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scientific kind of aspect. Any move
on's moved a little bit away from that,

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so he's decided to invest more time
in the See You and on some

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of these other cool projects that he's
working on. So that's what we're talking

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about here, Just this phenomena kind
of like the Marpha Lights or the Hestelen

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lights, where there are these balls
of lights, except this is in Alabama,

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right, Yeah, And I know
I've seen some images of that,

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you know, like the streaking streaking
across the sky. Now, as far

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as I know, Richard has not
ever done any streaking. Well that'll be

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I hope you brought that up.
I didn't, so we'll have to save

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that for next time. Yeah,
or maybe you can have him on podcast

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UFO and ask him about that.
Yeah, he's been on before. He's

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really good. I really enjoy talking
to him. Yeah, so that's the

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show today. Doesn't he always wear
a bow time? Or I think against

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someone else? I know he does
often wear a bow tie when he dresses

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up or when he does lectures and
stuff like that. Right, right,

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that's the guy, fancy fella.
Mm hmmm. So yeah, are we

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ready for a little news? Oh
yeah, let's talk some news, all

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right. I'll start off this This
is interesting because you see this quite often.

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And that's up and it's the title
of it, and was did Fox

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News catch a UFO buzzing the US
capital? Written by Alejandro Rojas recently.

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So I I suggest anyone you know
check this video out. I've watched it

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two or three times. It's uh, it's it's really interesting because my first

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thought is it's a bird, you
know, going by, But then I

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look really closely. There's absolutely no
flapping of wings. Would would be fine

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if it was going straight, you
know, horizontal across the screen or or

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actually down, but it's it's on
an incline, so there's absolutely no flapping

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that you can see. And it's
sort of a yellow tinge to it.

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I don't know if you notice that
I did. Yeah, yeah, So

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I've looked at it, like I
said, three or four times. It's

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really hard to figure out what this
is now. I know at the bottom

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of your article you wrote that could
be something like a frisbee or something like

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that, which you know is possible. It doesn't really it seems like you'd

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see the shape of a frisbee,
you know, going past the screen.

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I don't know. You don't have
to do some tests with it. Has

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have you shown this? I know
this was presented to move On by someone

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who you know, did a video
and screenshot of it, but did you

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show this to Mark dy Antonio or
anyone like that to get his opinion.

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No, as far as I know, Mark has not seen it yet.

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Now move On does its own investigation, So I was gonna kind of see

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where they'll go with this, and
we'll see the leading theory is a frisbee,

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and I can definitely see that.
In fact, there's a lot of

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people who were upset about me posting
it, and like those are the frisbee.

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It's obvious, but of course,
just like any video, people are

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fighting about it, arguing over what
it might be, because a lot of

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people are saying there's no way it's
a frisbee because of it shoots up,

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you know, in this other direction. And if it's a frisbee, it

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might be a yellow and white one
because the leading edge seems to be light

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in color and I can't see anything. It doesn't look like it's rotating spinning,

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So although maybe you wouldn't be able
to see that spinning, I think

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what we'd have to do is throw
a frisbee, fling of frisbee. Fly

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a frisbee because it's smooth, so
I mean it's flying, and see what

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happens there is of course, this
is Washington, d C. The Capitol,

225
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and there is a a park of
course in front of the Capitol,

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so it's it's possible it's a frisbee. In fact, that's that's probably most

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likely. But some people are debating
that and claiming it's not a frisbee.

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And there is something weird that happens
when it gets in front of the Capitol.

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It seems to fade out, which
made me think maybe it's a hoax.

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Maybe uh, it was. It
was a hoaxed video because the person

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who submitted the video, all they
did was submit this little clip and that

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was it. They didn't even describe
it. All they said was something like

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this is what their report said.
It flew in front of the Capitol building

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while I was watching Fox News.
That's all they wrote with this this video

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clip. So so there's no way
to even check when this supposedly happens.

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Yeah, you could look at the
news stories and then probably determined from there.

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I haven't taken the time to do
that, but I did take the

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video and slow it down and blow
it up and so, and then put

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it on YouTube slowed down greatly so
that people can kind of analyze it.

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And of course it's gotten a ton
of hits and so, and it kind

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of as usual when it comes to
social media. Some good comments, but

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a lot of really people like to
be me. Yeah, I know that.

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Wow. You know, you can
see it talks about people killed in

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Acapolco, Yesico resort, so you
can kind of see when that aired and

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try to figure that out, because
yeah, of course it is possible that

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he might have the person who's that
submitted it might have done something cgi and

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here it senate. That story looks
like it was on August thirteenth end or

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fourteenth, so that was just about
a week ago. Yeah, you know,

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it's funny though. You do see
a lot of things in news casts

250
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come up, and some of them
are you know, faked, but also

251
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you know, after the fact,
but some of them are most likely like

252
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birds or bugs or something like that. Yeah. Well, they have their

253
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cameras on all the time, so
and there's only one case and I can't

254
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even remember when and where it was
where they were filming news where they actually

255
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did stop and film what was in
the sky? Do you remember what I'm

256
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talking about? Did you see that? Well, I'm not sure if I'm

257
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thinking of the same one you are, But there was a case in Colorado

258
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where they were actually going out there
to film a UFO story and they captured

259
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one of the objects on video a
little bit there, and so that was

260
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pretty interesting. They were white orbs, I know, like rich Hoffman was

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felt strongly it was a Google balloon
and they were the pheno. The whole

262
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flap out there that was happening were
Google balloons, and there were Google balloons

263
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flowing in the area. However,
I'm not so sure about that because the

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Google balloons, at least for that
period of time, had or at least

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most of them, and according to
Google, they have tracking devices on them.

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And as many people and I linked
to some of these some of the

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people who looked into it found you
can go to those airplane like flight tracker

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sites. I think one's called flight
tracker, and you can track those Google

269
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balloons, so you could see what's
in the area, and some people were

270
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able to see where the Google balloons
were at the time, and so yeah,

271
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so it's pretty interesting all part of
investigating. Another interesting story we have

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that I would like to point people
to otherwise I think we're about out of

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time is a story from Linda Zimmerman. So Linda Zimmerman did the Hudson Valley

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UFO yeh book. She wrote that, and she wrote a story for US

275
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or an article called the UFOs Flying
Dark. And it's a really great idea

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because you know, there's all this
controversy why would UFOs have lights? You

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know, why are UFOs all lights
in the sky. And she wanted to

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make the point that there are objects
seen that don't have lights on them.

279
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And so that's the article she wrote
about mostly triangles seen at night without lights

280
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on them. So some really interesting
sightings. Well, yeah, you don't

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hear that is funny you say that
because I have heard people talk about wrangles

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without lights, but not any others. Really. I mean, the one,

283
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you know, amazing sighting I had
had no lights on it, you

284
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know, but it wasn't really dark
either, you know, it was you

285
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know, twilight. Wow. So
dis yours was a disc My uncle had

286
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one like that that was a large
rectangular object in Aspen, Colorado. Mm

287
00:24:23.559 --> 00:24:26.720
hmm. Wow, that's a great. You know, she thinks of great

288
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topics. The last one was on
UFOs and dogs, yeah, which was

289
00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:36.079
awesome, and pets. She's just
a great thinker. I love Linda Zimmermann's

290
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Wonderf's wonderful. Yep. Absolutely.
All right, Well I think we're out

291
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of time. All right, Well, thank you. We're gonna go ahead

292
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and take a break and we'll be
right back with Rich Hoffman. I am

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happy to welcome back to the show
Rich Hoffman. Hello, Hey, how

294
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you doing al good? It's great
to talk to you again. How have

295
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you been well, I've been busy
between work and family life and then everything

296
00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:33.599
else that's been It's been hectic,
but it's been great. This is a

297
00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:37.039
good summer. I'm looking forward to
my vacation next week at the Hilton Head.

298
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So there you go. Oh that
sounds fun. So things have changed

299
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a bit since we've last talked to
you. So you're no longer a state

300
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director with move On. Yeah,
I basically resigned my position as State director

301
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as well as the director of Strategic
Projects. I'm basically now just a lifetime

302
00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:08.559
member because I was a benefactor prior
to that separation, and so that's pretty

303
00:26:08.599 --> 00:26:15.039
much it. H plan. Oh
there was a weird noise. Did you

304
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hear that? Yeah, I sure
did. That was very strange. I

305
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wonder if the listeners could hear that
too. That was really weird. But

306
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anyway, yet, so you're not
with move On anymore, but you're still

307
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doing UFOs. I sure am,
I'm I'm I'm not gonna just turn away

308
00:26:36.319 --> 00:26:41.400
after fifty two years of studying them, and I'm going to keep on investigating

309
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and and that's that's what I like
to do and and I probably will do

310
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as long as I'm still upright and
above the ground. You were with move

311
00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:55.160
On for a long time, though, right where didn't you join in what

312
00:26:55.240 --> 00:26:59.920
was it nineteen sixty nine when they
started or something like that, you got

313
00:26:59.920 --> 00:27:06.839
it. I'm one of the I
think I joined right right in seventy nineteen

314
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seventy. They had started it in
May, I guess they incorporated it,

315
00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:12.880
let's put it that way, and
they were the Midwest UFO network at the

316
00:27:12.920 --> 00:27:18.799
time. And I announcement about them
coming into existence and immediately sent in my

317
00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:25.400
interest. And so yeah, I've
been with them for a long time.

318
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I wish them well, I certainly
do. I think that well. My

319
00:27:32.519 --> 00:27:37.599
separation was based around some of the
movements I saw that were kind of like

320
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away from science, and certainly the
last Symposium, in my estimation, wasn't

321
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really helping to support science. So
I decided that I was going to move

322
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on and go towards more of a
scientific bent. And that's pretty much where

323
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I'm at now. You know what, I want to take a minute to

324
00:27:59.319 --> 00:28:03.880
talk about that, not move on? Really, I think you explained that

325
00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:07.640
well enough, and of course I've
talked about the symposium, but I mean

326
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the importance of science, because I
don't know, I guess it does get

327
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a little bit concerning, I know
for you and some of our colleagues when

328
00:28:19.359 --> 00:28:25.319
larger organizations or people in general kind
of move away from it. And I

329
00:28:25.359 --> 00:28:29.519
guess, what are the sentiments you
hear out there? Why do you think

330
00:28:29.559 --> 00:28:34.279
it happened that people move away?
It seems that I want to get your

331
00:28:34.279 --> 00:28:40.440
opinion on this. Science is hard, it's rigorous, and a lot of

332
00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:47.039
people seem to get like kind of
disappointed or impatient. Yeah, and that's

333
00:28:47.119 --> 00:28:49.359
very, very true. I think
that my take on the whole thing,

334
00:28:49.400 --> 00:28:55.200
after my fifty two years of watching
it, has been that well, I

335
00:28:55.200 --> 00:29:00.680
mean, overall, we have a
culture, you know, have shifted kind

336
00:29:00.680 --> 00:29:08.200
of like away from science as being
something that the everyday person has an interest

337
00:29:08.240 --> 00:29:12.960
in, although I will sit and
say that there's still a good number of

338
00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:18.240
people who like astronomy, who liked
meteorology, there's there are people who are

339
00:29:18.400 --> 00:29:21.839
engineering, but even you know,
in a lot of these professions, the

340
00:29:21.960 --> 00:29:26.559
number of yes people are not going
to some of those things. And the

341
00:29:26.680 --> 00:29:30.519
UFO field, I mean if early
in the early days was I mean,

342
00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:33.160
it was all about science. It
was about you know, what can we

343
00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:36.960
do to collect evidence? How do
we do what we do and what was

344
00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:41.599
it? And so that was our
primary focus. And we didn't have all

345
00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:47.200
these other distractions, like you know, I guess exopolitics, and we didn't

346
00:29:47.240 --> 00:29:51.599
have all the other kinds of things
that come up with UFOs now, and

347
00:29:51.079 --> 00:29:55.920
we didn't have a YouTube that was
promoting fake videos or any of that stuff.

348
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So to me, it was more
like, you know, if you

349
00:29:57.160 --> 00:30:00.400
got into this, you know you
were going to be appl it to the

350
00:30:00.440 --> 00:30:03.400
best of your ability. And you
know, we were always challenged because we

351
00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:08.480
had a you know, if you
go with a volunteer base kind of approach.

352
00:30:10.480 --> 00:30:14.359
Uh, well, I mean a
lot of people lost. I mean,

353
00:30:14.680 --> 00:30:18.480
you know, at the Condom Report
closed out Project Bluebook, and then

354
00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:22.240
you know, the National Academy of
Scientists did their little stick on it,

355
00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:25.799
and then you started to see that
they had basically said, well, it's

356
00:30:25.839 --> 00:30:29.759
no longer a credible subject, you
know. And so there was all the

357
00:30:29.839 --> 00:30:33.960
promotion that was within the mainstream science
to be able to say, you know,

358
00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:37.559
hey, look, don't don't even
don't even go into the UFO thing.

359
00:30:38.440 --> 00:30:42.519
Jokingly, I saw a thing where
I was like on a site where

360
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I was going to look at how
do I write scientific articles? And on

361
00:30:47.240 --> 00:30:53.599
the front page of that was don't
do anything on UFOs. And I'm going

362
00:30:53.640 --> 00:30:57.240
like, okay, well there's a
message right up front, don't bother to

363
00:30:57.279 --> 00:31:02.440
do anything like a journal or anything
like on the CUFO subject. So I

364
00:31:02.440 --> 00:31:04.680
guess what I'm trying to say to
you is that there's this there seems to

365
00:31:04.720 --> 00:31:11.079
be a rise in the level of
these younger people to be very naive and

366
00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:15.279
gullible. Uh there. I think
I've talked about this in the past,

367
00:31:15.279 --> 00:31:22.599
but there's a lack of critical thinking
skills that we see. I was in

368
00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:26.440
the training development profession and we were
alerted to the fact that we didn't see

369
00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:30.599
students and younger people at the time
and this is like years and years ago

370
00:31:30.599 --> 00:31:33.559
that I was doing this, but
that we were we were seeing that thinking

371
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:38.519
critical thinking was a major concern for
students, that we had to change our

372
00:31:38.559 --> 00:31:42.559
way we were doing things. And
it has written at the top. But

373
00:31:42.599 --> 00:31:48.240
then coupled that with all the social
media that's out there, that that gives

374
00:31:48.279 --> 00:31:52.799
you just erroneous information and very bad
information, and pretty soon you know you're

375
00:31:52.839 --> 00:31:57.640
off under lalla land and you accept
lalla land as being the norm. Uh.

376
00:31:59.720 --> 00:32:04.839
And so when somebody comes in and
tries to apply a very scientific approach

377
00:32:04.920 --> 00:32:07.960
or something like that and use that
rigor that you're trying to talk about that

378
00:32:08.039 --> 00:32:14.119
you have in science, it just
doesn't seem to rise to the level of

379
00:32:14.200 --> 00:32:19.640
being of interest. And you know, I'll say this much I think that

380
00:32:19.880 --> 00:32:23.599
you know, move on is was
attempting to try to put you know,

381
00:32:24.079 --> 00:32:28.519
and then do its best to be
able to create science and Jan was also

382
00:32:28.599 --> 00:32:31.720
working with me to be able to
get technology and put in place. But

383
00:32:32.079 --> 00:32:37.000
the struggle that we continued to have
was that again we're getting like, you

384
00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:39.920
know, maybe an ex witness might
sign up to say that I want to

385
00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:43.880
be an investigator, and that doesn't
mean that they're necessarily good at it,

386
00:32:43.960 --> 00:32:46.039
right, And it doesn't I mean, despite the fact you offer training,

387
00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:50.480
it doesn't suddenly make them start thinking
in a scientific way, you know,

388
00:32:50.920 --> 00:32:57.200
And so you run into problems there. You know, even if you hand

389
00:32:57.200 --> 00:33:00.920
it out technology to people, would
they even understand what that particular technology does

390
00:33:01.160 --> 00:33:05.880
or how how to use it in
the field. Uh. And so there's

391
00:33:06.039 --> 00:33:09.039
there's those challenges, and we just
haven't seen a whole lot of like scientific

392
00:33:09.079 --> 00:33:17.039
minded people that are coming into the
the field. Uh and uh the only

393
00:33:17.079 --> 00:33:21.559
thing that I've seen, and I'm
very encouraged by that, by way.

394
00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:27.200
But there's a number of like small
projects that that people are doing from you

395
00:33:27.240 --> 00:33:30.119
know, people who have been in
it for a long time, like Mark

396
00:33:30.200 --> 00:33:35.640
Roddicker is doing with UFO data uh
that ronalds was doing out in California with

397
00:33:35.960 --> 00:33:40.880
putting together his uh technical package.
Uh. Shalon Holt is doing something with

398
00:33:42.559 --> 00:33:45.880
you know, basically getting some data
and and and I'm and then you had

399
00:33:45.920 --> 00:33:51.359
Mark and Mark D'Antonio and Doug Trumbull
that were looking at you FUTOG. So

400
00:33:51.759 --> 00:33:55.920
there are these like little projects and
because technology has definitely come down and cost.

401
00:33:57.559 --> 00:34:01.160
They are trying to assemble devices that
would be able to beneficial and getting

402
00:34:01.279 --> 00:34:07.960
data. And that's what this phenomenon
has needed all along. It is not

403
00:34:07.360 --> 00:34:13.320
another report from someonetness to say I
saw a light in the sky twenty years

404
00:34:13.320 --> 00:34:15.800
ago. I mean, that's not
going to get at us anywhere. And

405
00:34:17.679 --> 00:34:22.360
we're not even hitting the other parts
of the spectrum, you know, I

406
00:34:22.360 --> 00:34:27.280
mean we only see like photos from
cameras and and what about the infrared,

407
00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:30.039
what about ultra violet? What about
you know, you know, all these

408
00:34:30.039 --> 00:34:34.599
other kinds of things that we can
get from that electromagnetic spectrum. So we

409
00:34:34.679 --> 00:34:38.599
need if we attack it in a
very broad way and then look at this,

410
00:34:39.400 --> 00:34:43.639
we might be able to do something
where we might actually be able to

411
00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:47.519
get some results that are meaningful and
some helpful data. But it's not the

412
00:34:47.559 --> 00:34:52.960
collection of just testimonies from people that
said that they saw these objects. That

413
00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:58.000
that's not going to get us anyway. Seventy thousand cases and movement that have

414
00:34:58.079 --> 00:35:05.119
we made any convincing strides towards producing
evidence. No, We've got a lot

415
00:35:05.119 --> 00:35:09.480
of good cases that seem to be
rather unexplainable, But yet we still struggle

416
00:35:09.519 --> 00:35:15.320
with the fact that we can't provide
anything that makes a dent. And as

417
00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:20.679
close as we've come so far,
I might be the ugly dea case in

418
00:35:20.679 --> 00:35:23.519
the sense that you do get something
that's kind of interesting in the sense that

419
00:35:23.519 --> 00:35:30.920
it's an infrared kind of video,
but anyway, were lacking those kind of

420
00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:36.679
other kinds of like you know,
tools being applied. And again it's more

421
00:35:36.719 --> 00:35:42.880
scientific mindedness and a definite specific approach
that has to be taken, and that

422
00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:46.599
means we need to get those kinds
of people who think that way together.

423
00:35:47.239 --> 00:35:52.119
Yeah, and you know what I'm
saying, and that's that's the critical thing

424
00:35:52.159 --> 00:35:53.880
we've got to be able to come
up with. Yeah, and I understand

425
00:35:54.519 --> 00:36:00.199
move On's movement and the intense pressure
because when I was doing PR you know,

426
00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:01.360
we get so many people why don't
you do this, why don't you

427
00:36:01.400 --> 00:36:04.679
do that? And I used to
always say, well, we can't do

428
00:36:04.760 --> 00:36:07.599
everything for everybody. There's other groups
doing some of those sort of things.

429
00:36:07.800 --> 00:36:10.800
We've got to focus on what other
people aren't doing, which is our mission

430
00:36:10.840 --> 00:36:16.920
statement, which is the science.
But you know, some people get disappointed

431
00:36:17.039 --> 00:36:22.559
with that, and so it's always
a struggle. But It's great that there

432
00:36:22.840 --> 00:36:25.320
because my heart, even though I
cover everything in this field and I try

433
00:36:25.320 --> 00:36:30.840
to cover, you know, what's
going on out there to share with people,

434
00:36:30.559 --> 00:36:36.280
my heart is in the science area. So I've always try to keep

435
00:36:36.320 --> 00:36:39.719
an eye and grease the wheels and
keep that sort of thing happening. It

436
00:36:39.719 --> 00:36:43.559
always makes me think of that JFK
and let's see if I could do a

437
00:36:43.599 --> 00:36:46.880
good impression. It always makes me
think of his quote, we chose to

438
00:36:46.920 --> 00:36:51.800
go to the moon in this decade
and do the other things not because they

439
00:36:51.840 --> 00:36:57.559
are easy, but because they are
hard. Wow, you did that very

440
00:36:57.559 --> 00:37:00.119
well. Did you like it that
I do? Okay, you did a

441
00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:05.199
great job. All Wow, I
think you could be the next next movie

442
00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:08.039
and that would be great and you
can play it apart. That would be

443
00:37:08.079 --> 00:37:12.000
fun do that. But yeah,
exactly, I think to me, it's

444
00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:15.159
like one of those things where it's
like and that's precisely it's hard, but

445
00:37:15.239 --> 00:37:21.079
it's also doing it smartly. So
I think that, you know, if

446
00:37:21.079 --> 00:37:27.360
we focus our efforts on going after
like what we can and tackling the best

447
00:37:27.440 --> 00:37:31.039
cases we can come up with and
going into greater detail for example, you

448
00:37:31.079 --> 00:37:35.760
know, I mean, we couldn't
figure out what the Aguadia thing is.

449
00:37:36.280 --> 00:37:40.119
But I mean we spent two years
looking at that. But I mean there

450
00:37:40.119 --> 00:37:45.400
are cases like that that you need
to spend a lot of time, you

451
00:37:45.400 --> 00:37:47.119
know, and you really need to
do the digging, and you need to

452
00:37:47.760 --> 00:37:52.079
have scientific minded people approaching it.
It's not just like let me fill out

453
00:37:52.239 --> 00:37:57.119
a report form and have it done
within a ninety day window. So I

454
00:37:57.119 --> 00:38:00.400
think that, you know, there
are some cases that want to the fact

455
00:38:00.440 --> 00:38:04.280
that you spend a lot more time
on it, and you should put to

456
00:38:04.400 --> 00:38:07.400
a full court press. And especially
when you get like evidence that comes out,

457
00:38:07.480 --> 00:38:12.679
like you know, in the form
of maybe a video, a very

458
00:38:12.679 --> 00:38:16.400
good video clip with a lot of
references, but and maybe it's an infrared

459
00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:22.400
that's something relatively new to us.
We just need to take the time to

460
00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:24.079
look at it, analyze it,
get smart about it, and find out

461
00:38:24.119 --> 00:38:28.480
what we can do. And so
I think that that's you know, we

462
00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:32.039
need to do scientific approaches to it
and to really think things through. And

463
00:38:32.079 --> 00:38:36.039
that's kind of like what I've done
with this Cloverdale project. Mm hmm.

464
00:38:36.440 --> 00:38:38.679
Yeah. So Agua Dan, for
those who don't remember, we've talked about

465
00:38:38.679 --> 00:38:42.480
it so much and last time you
were on the show, we talked about

466
00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:46.280
it quite a bit, but the
homeland security case that was handled outside of

467
00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:52.519
Muffin, it was actually handled with
a group you and others form called the

468
00:38:52.599 --> 00:39:00.960
Scientific Coalidal Coalition for Eufology, which
now you know I'm involved with. Also

469
00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:05.920
that we're getting some more movement around
it to have it one of hopefully a

470
00:39:06.119 --> 00:39:15.760
bastion of scientific thought and work towards
this field. But this new case is

471
00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:20.920
exciting because you know, we've talked
a lot about the Hesdelen Lights on the

472
00:39:20.960 --> 00:39:24.719
show, because that's exciting where they
have these light phenomena that happens in Denmark,

473
00:39:24.840 --> 00:39:31.320
but Cloverdale essentially is something similar right
in your neck of the witch.

474
00:39:31.360 --> 00:39:37.840
Maybe you can explain what this phenomena
is and how far observations of it have

475
00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:45.079
gone back. Sure well as a
being I live in Huntsville, which is

476
00:39:45.280 --> 00:39:49.800
if you look at it, it's
like maybe fifteen minutes south of the Tennessee

477
00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:53.400
state line and it's in the middle
part of that northern section of the state.

478
00:39:57.039 --> 00:40:00.679
I had monthly move on meetings.
I still have these meetings. We

479
00:40:00.760 --> 00:40:02.360
just don't call them move on.
But I mean I got these people that

480
00:40:02.400 --> 00:40:07.440
are that are meeting and all along
while I've been here in the Huntsville area

481
00:40:08.039 --> 00:40:16.440
that I've had people, you know, make occasional mentions of ball lightning or

482
00:40:16.559 --> 00:40:22.519
ball lights that they call them,
that were over and they would call them

483
00:40:22.599 --> 00:40:24.400
orbs, they call them, all
different kinds of things that were flying around

484
00:40:24.440 --> 00:40:30.039
this area just north of Florence,
which if you look at Florence, Alabama,

485
00:40:30.119 --> 00:40:35.559
it's pretty much over near the Mississippi
state line. But anyway, I

486
00:40:35.559 --> 00:40:39.679
would get people telling me about these
like lots of lights that are being seen

487
00:40:39.719 --> 00:40:44.119
over there, and I kind of
like, okay, well, lights,

488
00:40:44.159 --> 00:40:49.039
you know, and then I wou
occasionally get a move on reports from people

489
00:40:49.119 --> 00:40:53.199
of Vicinity who would be describing these
orbs that were moving around and doing some

490
00:40:53.519 --> 00:40:57.920
interesting things, and so I,
you know, I would check them out,

491
00:40:58.000 --> 00:41:00.840
you know, and typically I didn't
see that there was like a repeatable

492
00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:04.000
phenomena. Could have been an aircraft, could have been could all these different

493
00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:08.559
kinds of things. Well, uh, I got a hold actually I was

494
00:41:08.639 --> 00:41:14.079
contacted by a gentleman by the name
of Wyatt Cox. Uh. In fact,

495
00:41:14.159 --> 00:41:17.880
he contacted me several years ago and
mentioned something about these lights that were

496
00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:27.280
over in an area of Cloverdale and
and then we just recently got back into

497
00:41:27.679 --> 00:41:30.760
touch with each other. And of
course now I'm I'm I've got a lot

498
00:41:30.800 --> 00:41:34.840
more time because I'm not doing the
move on stuff, but I've got I

499
00:41:35.119 --> 00:41:37.599
said, well, let's focus on
that. Let's see what it is.

500
00:41:37.599 --> 00:41:40.840
So basically what I did is,
I uh, He's published a book.

501
00:41:42.599 --> 00:41:51.239
It's called Uh I Believe the Cloverdale
Spook Lights and anyway, it's and he

502
00:41:51.599 --> 00:41:55.639
had him and another friend of his
that I guess they were living in the

503
00:41:55.639 --> 00:42:04.800
Florence area, became aware of this
and these lights that were moving around people's

504
00:42:04.840 --> 00:42:08.599
farms that are up in that area. And they, I mean they were

505
00:42:08.679 --> 00:42:13.440
saying that they would see lights that
would that would be rather large, that

506
00:42:13.480 --> 00:42:19.639
would be moving around and in fact
they would be you know, going up

507
00:42:19.760 --> 00:42:22.639
near trees or in between trees,
and then they would get up to a

508
00:42:22.639 --> 00:42:28.360
certain altitude. And anyway, these
things were being reported by the residents,

509
00:42:28.400 --> 00:42:30.639
but nobody or they would talk about
it, and it's kind of like,

510
00:42:30.719 --> 00:42:34.559
oh, there's those lights again,
you know, I mean, they didn't

511
00:42:34.599 --> 00:42:39.320
report it, and so consequently it's
like, you know, turns out a

512
00:42:39.320 --> 00:42:43.880
lot of residents over there know about
this. Thing. Well, he became

513
00:42:43.920 --> 00:42:49.639
aware of it, and him and
his friend spent from roughly right around like

514
00:42:49.719 --> 00:42:53.760
this is right around the nineteen seventy
three time period, and basically they were

515
00:42:53.800 --> 00:42:58.639
starting to see the reports. Just
like you know, nineteen seventy three was

516
00:42:58.719 --> 00:43:02.119
up very hot year for UFO reports
in general, as you very well know,

517
00:43:02.239 --> 00:43:07.880
that's a major flat year. But
it seemed as though that there were

518
00:43:07.960 --> 00:43:13.639
these lights that were being seen around
the Florence and north of that Florence area.

519
00:43:14.199 --> 00:43:19.079
And so him his friend would go
out and they would try to see

520
00:43:19.079 --> 00:43:21.760
what they could find, and they
were got permission to be able to go

521
00:43:21.800 --> 00:43:28.480
on people's farms and some clearing kind
of areas, and they would they started

522
00:43:28.519 --> 00:43:30.960
to document the fact that there were
these lights that were out there. In

523
00:43:31.039 --> 00:43:37.840
fact, basically he came up with
some sort of a way of classifying them,

524
00:43:37.880 --> 00:43:44.119
and he talks about in his book
where you have and then it's kind

525
00:43:44.119 --> 00:43:47.559
of by color. So you have
a white light, you'll have a blue

526
00:43:47.639 --> 00:43:52.559
light, and then you'll have kind
of like an orange or yellow orange kind

527
00:43:52.599 --> 00:43:58.840
of like light that and those three
primary colors tend to be the most common.

528
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:05.639
The sizes were interesting in the sense
that the white and the blue tend

529
00:44:05.639 --> 00:44:09.360
to be roughly two to four feet
in diameter, while the yellow orange tend

530
00:44:09.360 --> 00:44:15.559
to be about eight foot in diameter. And they started noticing that and again

531
00:44:15.639 --> 00:44:19.880
as these things are moving around,
like a good example of how they came

532
00:44:19.960 --> 00:44:22.679
up with the eight foot in diameter, with the fact that this thing was

533
00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:30.920
above a railroad track and so you
could actually get an estimate and you knew

534
00:44:30.960 --> 00:44:35.039
the size of the railroad track and
so on. Anyway, they talk about

535
00:44:35.039 --> 00:44:40.760
this in their book, and it
seems that those colors have an association pretty

536
00:44:40.840 --> 00:44:45.920
much with the time of year that
you look at these things. So during

537
00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:52.360
the summer months they tend to be
more whitish, as the days gets cooler

538
00:44:52.400 --> 00:44:58.519
and the nights gets cooler, and
for the fall they tend to be more

539
00:44:58.559 --> 00:45:01.719
in this yellow orange. The blue
ones kind of like you know, are

540
00:45:01.920 --> 00:45:06.920
popping up here, there and everywhere
in terms of the time period, at

541
00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:09.599
least as far as I could see
from or what I've learned so far.

542
00:45:10.039 --> 00:45:15.639
But the definitely and the cooler nights
from a period of like about October through

543
00:45:16.920 --> 00:45:22.880
maybe like you know, about March
or something of that nature, or April,

544
00:45:23.719 --> 00:45:28.039
you could go into this area and
they tended to be that large variety

545
00:45:28.559 --> 00:45:34.079
and the frequency of them could be
that you're seeing many of these things,

546
00:45:34.159 --> 00:45:38.800
and they generally are after just after
sundown and up to maybe like about midnight,

547
00:45:39.239 --> 00:45:44.199
that's when they were out there.
And so you could on some nights

548
00:45:44.280 --> 00:45:45.920
you'd be able to go out there
and see as many as three or four

549
00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:52.159
of these things. Wow. And
the other thing is that they don't seem

550
00:45:52.360 --> 00:45:59.039
to be impacted at all by wind. So you've got these lights that apparently

551
00:45:59.039 --> 00:46:05.119
they said that they seemingly moved up
from the ground and they start rising and

552
00:46:05.159 --> 00:46:08.360
then they're moving in a straight line. They tend to go east and west

553
00:46:08.480 --> 00:46:16.199
or west to east, and they
are basically, you know, like I

554
00:46:16.199 --> 00:46:23.199
said, not impacted by wind.
They've they tend to be these balls of

555
00:46:23.320 --> 00:46:27.639
if you would like a like a
plasma or something like a ball plasma.

556
00:46:28.239 --> 00:46:32.360
Uh. You had a situation on
one particular case, and this was in

557
00:46:32.400 --> 00:46:39.480
the newspaper articles for the Florence paper
over there. They spoke of a woman

558
00:46:39.519 --> 00:46:44.119
who saw an object and then a
short time after that, feathers came flying

559
00:46:44.119 --> 00:46:47.920
out of the sky. Well that
that indicates maybe a bird went into one,

560
00:46:49.079 --> 00:46:55.760
you know, and was immediately zapped
or something you have. But I

561
00:46:55.800 --> 00:47:00.679
mean again, so this repeatable phenomenon
you can actually go take a look at.

562
00:47:00.800 --> 00:47:04.559
Now for the most part, we
believe, I mean, I think

563
00:47:04.559 --> 00:47:07.519
we're all pretty much in agreement that
they are a natural phenomena. And especially

564
00:47:07.519 --> 00:47:10.920
when you look at other you know
that the fact that there seems to be

565
00:47:10.960 --> 00:47:15.840
these areas where you have those kind
of multiple things. So if you look

566
00:47:15.880 --> 00:47:21.159
at it, like you know,
doctor Harley Rutlich talked about the Piedmont sightings

567
00:47:21.199 --> 00:47:24.039
in nineteen seventy three that were going
on, and these lights that we're moving

568
00:47:24.039 --> 00:47:29.079
around. You have the Marphall lights, You've got the Brown Mountain lights.

569
00:47:29.119 --> 00:47:34.159
And by the way, I just
we just basically looked at Joshua pier Warren's

570
00:47:34.519 --> 00:47:40.400
presentation that he gave several years ago
for you on the Brown Mountain lights,

571
00:47:40.880 --> 00:47:45.800
and in fact, we took a
look at that video and a lot of

572
00:47:45.800 --> 00:47:49.519
his descriptions and things like you said, you know, and him and I

573
00:47:49.559 --> 00:47:53.800
have been in conversation with each other, are very very similar. I mean,

574
00:47:54.079 --> 00:47:58.079
going back to the time of the
year and the fact that it's cooler

575
00:47:58.159 --> 00:48:02.239
and that seems to make the lights
of different color and more frequent, and

576
00:48:04.480 --> 00:48:07.159
you know, he was looking at
it from the standpoint that it might have

577
00:48:07.239 --> 00:48:14.119
some sort of relationship to what they
called K waves and the it's like space

578
00:48:14.159 --> 00:48:17.639
weather if you look at some sort
of space weather relationship that there showed that.

579
00:48:19.480 --> 00:48:23.119
Plus you the Brown Mountain area,
you've got a large number of you

580
00:48:23.159 --> 00:48:28.719
know, fault lines that are ruping
along this mountain chain if you would where

581
00:48:29.119 --> 00:48:34.519
if you go look at for the
geophysical kind of like maps for the area

582
00:48:34.559 --> 00:48:38.440
that we're talking about, you'll see
that there's maybe like one fault that's going

583
00:48:38.559 --> 00:48:42.960
north to south, but it's a
very small one. And we've got to

584
00:48:43.039 --> 00:48:49.159
take a quick break and then we'll
talk some more about that aspect of it.

585
00:48:49.239 --> 00:48:53.159
But you mentioned nineteen seventy three was
actually the year I was born,

586
00:48:53.800 --> 00:48:59.360
and I suspect, you know,
there's a video out there that relates to

587
00:48:59.760 --> 00:49:04.039
how I believe I came to this
planet. It's called rocket by Baby.

588
00:49:04.079 --> 00:49:08.440
It's a Bugs Bunny the Looney tune. So google Looney Tunes Rocket by Baby

589
00:49:08.719 --> 00:49:15.119
if you want to see my origin
story, Do you remember that video?

590
00:49:14.440 --> 00:49:16.679
I sure do. Yeah, that's
a great one. All right, So

591
00:49:16.719 --> 00:49:21.599
we're gonna take a quick break for
kg r A. Of course, podcast

592
00:49:21.679 --> 00:49:23.719
listeners will be right back. But
for kg r A, you're gonna hear

593
00:49:23.800 --> 00:49:30.440
a lot of great commercials, so
definitely patronize the commercials that you hear here.

594
00:49:30.480 --> 00:50:13.119
But we'll be back in just a
minute with Open Minds Radio. All

595
00:50:13.239 --> 00:50:16.760
right, we are back with Rich
Hoffman talking about the Cloverdale spook lights is

596
00:50:16.800 --> 00:50:21.760
what they used to be called,
or at least the researchers you meant mentioned

597
00:50:21.800 --> 00:50:25.679
Wyatt Cox had a book called Spook
Lights about these lights. Now you were

598
00:50:25.719 --> 00:50:30.599
talking about some of the other light
phenomena like Marpha lights. I had mentioned

599
00:50:30.639 --> 00:50:36.480
Hesdelin before, but in the Hesdelin
Lights, what was surprising he said this

600
00:50:36.639 --> 00:50:42.280
that, you know, I don't
know what's his name, Eric, you're

601
00:50:42.320 --> 00:50:46.079
talking about Errand erling Strand. Yeah. At the move On symposium that you

602
00:50:46.079 --> 00:50:51.480
and I both spoke at, and
then at our UFO congress last year,

603
00:50:51.920 --> 00:50:55.840
he has been investigating those lights with
a lot of different devices and things like

604
00:50:55.880 --> 00:50:59.800
that. He had mentioned that,
you know, a lot of people out

605
00:50:59.840 --> 00:51:04.320
there believe them to be some sort
of uh, you know, natural phenomena,

606
00:51:05.079 --> 00:51:07.679
but he disagreed. He felt there
was some sort of intelligence behind these

607
00:51:07.760 --> 00:51:15.559
objects. You mentioned earlier that you
feel that the lights here in Alabama and

608
00:51:15.639 --> 00:51:22.199
possibly the Marpha lights and others do
have a natural uh an answer that may

609
00:51:22.280 --> 00:51:25.880
lie in like some sort of natural
phenomena you think, Yeah, I think

610
00:51:25.880 --> 00:51:30.239
that we all tend to seemingly agree
that they're not there, that they they

611
00:51:30.840 --> 00:51:36.320
tend to be some sort of a
ball plasma of some sort of nature.

612
00:51:36.639 --> 00:51:39.719
And you know, I mean it's
like anything that we we I think,

613
00:51:39.800 --> 00:51:45.760
you know, going back to whether
or not these have I mean some sort

614
00:51:45.760 --> 00:51:51.400
of sentience and can think, and
some I mean they don't. I mean,

615
00:51:51.559 --> 00:51:54.480
for example, these move in a
straight line, and they may disappear

616
00:51:54.519 --> 00:52:00.320
and they then suddenly they'll come back
and appear, but they eventually they go

617
00:52:00.400 --> 00:52:05.840
out, they h and at least
the ones over in Cloverdale now they're they're

618
00:52:05.840 --> 00:52:13.400
moving in pretty much a straight line
path, uh and where you might and

619
00:52:13.519 --> 00:52:17.400
you see others that have a little
bit more deviation to them in terms of

620
00:52:17.440 --> 00:52:22.079
their flight path or the path that
they take. And I and I would

621
00:52:22.079 --> 00:52:29.960
only cautions that that you know,
we as humans tend to be answerpomorphic and

622
00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:34.079
we want to be able to turn
anything we see and make patterns out of

623
00:52:34.079 --> 00:52:37.079
it, and our minds would interpret
something and say, oh, it looks

624
00:52:37.119 --> 00:52:39.960
like it looks like it's got intelligence. And I've heard that commonly. I've

625
00:52:40.199 --> 00:52:46.159
heard that applied to these types of
ball lights that that people see that will

626
00:52:46.199 --> 00:52:50.480
move around and they'll kind of like
move maybe even move around to person.

627
00:52:50.800 --> 00:52:53.679
And I've also seen reports where for
example, you know, oh, here's

628
00:52:53.679 --> 00:52:59.360
something interesting. So I remember even
a move on case where you had a

629
00:52:59.639 --> 00:53:06.840
red orbed light that was that was
moving toward a car that was actually heading

630
00:53:06.840 --> 00:53:12.360
at about sixty five miles an hour, and the object came over next to

631
00:53:12.880 --> 00:53:19.000
that and and stayed up with that
same speed of the vehicle from one side

632
00:53:19.039 --> 00:53:22.199
and then kind of like went over
to the other side. And you had,

633
00:53:22.360 --> 00:53:23.920
you know, the food fighter phenomenons
kind of like that, you know,

634
00:53:23.960 --> 00:53:27.880
in a sense that they kind of
came up near a plane and they

635
00:53:27.960 --> 00:53:30.960
might move around the plane like there's
some sort of an intelligence there. Well,

636
00:53:34.760 --> 00:53:38.440
here you had this case in the
Cloverdale where there's an instance where they

637
00:53:38.519 --> 00:53:44.440
see the light above the track and
the train comes and at that point where

638
00:53:44.440 --> 00:53:47.880
that the train comes, it now
kind of like attaches itself and is following

639
00:53:47.920 --> 00:53:52.480
along with the train. Now to
me, if you look at all those

640
00:53:52.559 --> 00:53:57.800
kind of instances right there, what
do you see? You see an object

641
00:53:58.800 --> 00:54:05.280
that is next to a metallic object. Okay, these are moving vehicles,

642
00:54:05.679 --> 00:54:08.639
these are moving aircraft, and in
what do we know? I mean there's

643
00:54:08.679 --> 00:54:13.400
probably a you know, well,
there's batteries and everything else associated with it.

644
00:54:13.440 --> 00:54:16.280
So I think that what happens is
there's they have some sort of electromagnetic

645
00:54:16.320 --> 00:54:22.320
connection or magnetic connection to that object, which is why they suddenly trail with

646
00:54:22.840 --> 00:54:25.880
the birth of the plane, the
train and you know and everything else.

647
00:54:27.159 --> 00:54:30.679
So I think that we might say, oh, well, that seems like

648
00:54:30.719 --> 00:54:32.920
it's pretty intelligent because it was doing
that. But maybe it's just the fact

649
00:54:32.920 --> 00:54:39.760
that again there's a connection to it
being near metallic object. Yeah, that's

650
00:54:39.800 --> 00:54:45.800
interesting. And you know, you
also mentioned that they mostly move east west,

651
00:54:45.079 --> 00:54:52.920
which is also interesting. Yeah,
and it's interesting in that sense that

652
00:54:52.000 --> 00:54:57.000
there's this repeatable pattern. And so
you know, that's what's curious about it

653
00:54:57.039 --> 00:55:02.000
for me is like, are there
you know, and any underground water,

654
00:55:02.480 --> 00:55:07.280
uh maybe like kinds of rivers if
you would, are they trailing that?

655
00:55:08.079 --> 00:55:14.760
And so are they are there anything? Is there a magnetic kind of effect

656
00:55:14.920 --> 00:55:19.119
that's going on that makes it want
to trail that way. And so part

657
00:55:19.159 --> 00:55:22.360
of what we want to do with
the project is actually get some baselines and

658
00:55:22.400 --> 00:55:25.159
go up and find measurement, do
measurements, find out what we can to

659
00:55:25.199 --> 00:55:30.039
see if there's any kind of you
know, thing like that that may be

660
00:55:30.079 --> 00:55:32.960
coming into play. I mean,
why do they go east to west?

661
00:55:34.239 --> 00:55:38.039
Why out? I mean or west
to east and in that direction? Uh,

662
00:55:38.119 --> 00:55:43.119
And from what I've seen in terms
of the geological studies and stuff like

663
00:55:43.119 --> 00:55:47.280
that that I've got, uh,
you don't really see anything that sticks out

664
00:55:47.320 --> 00:55:52.000
like this is what would be causing
it? Mm hmm. And that I

665
00:55:52.000 --> 00:55:57.079
mean that would be big for uphology
too. And that's what's exciting about these

666
00:55:57.119 --> 00:56:00.440
projects, even when it comes to
these balls of light, is that if

667
00:56:00.599 --> 00:56:05.280
it can be proven there is a
phenomena of balls of light that you know,

668
00:56:05.679 --> 00:56:09.199
move around, you know, they
can be visible at night. I

669
00:56:09.199 --> 00:56:12.920
mean, that would be a big
deal for euthology. And that sure,

670
00:56:13.199 --> 00:56:15.880
some people may be bummed, and
I think a lot of people don't want

671
00:56:15.519 --> 00:56:22.119
to know if something like that exists, But that way it helps us to

672
00:56:22.199 --> 00:56:27.440
know what's really unusual. Yeah,
to me, you're absolutely right, And

673
00:56:27.480 --> 00:56:29.639
to me, al, I mean, you know it as well as I

674
00:56:29.679 --> 00:56:34.440
do. The vast majority of the
UFO cases that we get are typically if

675
00:56:34.519 --> 00:56:39.320
out there are explainable phenomena, right, So it's when we get down into

676
00:56:39.360 --> 00:56:45.000
some of these things because science doesn't
have an answer to what these orbs are,

677
00:56:45.159 --> 00:56:49.679
these like these types of like you
know, lights or luminous phenomena,

678
00:56:51.519 --> 00:56:55.280
I think that we would benefit our
uthology by being able to understand these so

679
00:56:55.320 --> 00:57:00.599
that we could clearly eliminate them from
being the uf UP. You know what

680
00:57:00.599 --> 00:57:05.599
I'm saying. So let's let's get
to know this this phenomena that keeps getting

681
00:57:05.639 --> 00:57:09.880
reported that we can't explain and they
end up being thrown into the UFO category

682
00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:19.239
when indeed they have an explanation as
being high fos so and I think that

683
00:57:19.360 --> 00:57:23.960
this helps us out from a standpoint
of understanding atmospheric physics and so so to

684
00:57:24.039 --> 00:57:29.440
me, I think that there's benefit
in doing this, uh and for us

685
00:57:29.440 --> 00:57:35.840
to get smarter about the things that
we know and UH And because these things,

686
00:57:35.880 --> 00:57:38.519
like I said, are relatively unknown
and we are trying to figure them

687
00:57:38.559 --> 00:57:42.719
out, let's let's get an answer
to them and we can eliminate them from

688
00:57:42.760 --> 00:57:46.880
the UFO equation, so m h. And also, yeah, they're not

689
00:57:47.000 --> 00:57:51.599
tied to jumps. They're not tied
just to these areas, is what I'm

690
00:57:51.599 --> 00:57:58.559
also is that whatever phenomena is creating
this thing, whether it be you know,

691
00:57:58.719 --> 00:58:01.519
whether it be a pah ol electric
type of thing from a fault zone

692
00:58:01.639 --> 00:58:06.599
or whatever like that, or some
people suggest that it might be a gas

693
00:58:06.599 --> 00:58:12.079
that somehow ignites the fact that it
goes into a plasma state which is extremely

694
00:58:12.119 --> 00:58:15.280
hot by the way I mean,
and it does what it does, we

695
00:58:15.320 --> 00:58:21.280
ought to understand the physics of how
that thing happens and it would help us

696
00:58:21.280 --> 00:58:23.679
out in a lot of different ways. Sorry. Yeah, I think it

697
00:58:23.719 --> 00:58:29.239
also helps legitimize the field of UFO
study, because you know, when the

698
00:58:29.320 --> 00:58:31.880
definition of a UFO is something that
we haven't identified yet, if we begin

699
00:58:31.920 --> 00:58:37.119
to identify and especially come up with
more prosaic answers, but something that's unknown

700
00:58:37.239 --> 00:58:42.920
and that adds to science, I
think that really legitimizes the field and the

701
00:58:42.960 --> 00:58:49.159
research. I can't agree with you
more. And the fact that we can

702
00:58:49.480 --> 00:58:54.960
now get technology pretty inexpensively we can
go out and get some readings on this.

703
00:58:55.000 --> 00:58:58.800
We can might be able to get
some sort of like indications. I

704
00:58:58.840 --> 00:59:01.000
intend to go out there with an
and fly it as close as I can

705
00:59:01.039 --> 00:59:07.440
without but again going back to want
to be able to film it up close

706
00:59:08.960 --> 00:59:13.239
learn from it. That way,
we're going to be looking at and I've

707
00:59:13.320 --> 00:59:16.440
actually got Shallon Halt that is going
to be providing me some of his devices

708
00:59:16.679 --> 00:59:22.360
and we're going to be putting those
out into farming areas and seeing if that

709
00:59:22.480 --> 00:59:27.480
will help register anything. And I'm
looking for other people who are interested,

710
00:59:27.519 --> 00:59:30.440
by the way, and some of
your listeners who would be interested in the

711
00:59:31.199 --> 00:59:37.199
We're looking around the late fall and
maybe early winter time frame of this year,

712
00:59:37.639 --> 00:59:40.519
but to actually go out and we're
looking to be able to set up

713
00:59:40.719 --> 00:59:45.440
our gear and stuff like that where
and you might have they might have gear

714
00:59:45.480 --> 00:59:50.719
that we'd like to be able to
test and to do anything to gather data

715
00:59:50.719 --> 00:59:53.079
that we can. So that's kind
of like where I'm hoping to go.

716
00:59:53.280 --> 00:59:58.000
And I've been building a project plan, looking at the types of things and

717
00:59:58.079 --> 01:00:00.320
trying to set up, you know, different times of experiments that we can

718
01:00:00.440 --> 01:00:07.760
do. I've got people that are
I've already talked to a couple of colleges

719
01:00:07.320 --> 01:00:10.199
and they're going to get back to
me with some whether they're going to have

720
01:00:10.599 --> 01:00:15.599
some support. But cool, there
you go, Yeah, that's really cool.

721
01:00:15.760 --> 01:00:20.039
So yeah, that's kind of the
future of what you're doing here is

722
01:00:20.039 --> 01:00:23.119
that you know, you want to
take it to that next level. So

723
01:00:23.960 --> 01:00:27.719
I guess what you're going to be
doing is kind of similar to some of

724
01:00:27.760 --> 01:00:30.159
those projects you had mentioned earlier has
done being one of them, but like

725
01:00:30.199 --> 01:00:37.079
the uphotog project or UFO data where
they're putting together kind of these viewing stations

726
01:00:37.199 --> 01:00:42.800
right where they can film and get
other types of telemetry on these objects.

727
01:00:43.679 --> 01:00:49.719
Yeah, and I exactly, And
what we lack is throughout this whole you

728
01:00:49.719 --> 01:00:54.159
know UFO phenomena is good data and
that you're going back to the point where

729
01:00:54.320 --> 01:00:58.519
I think a lot of people feel
that that's you know, the scientific study

730
01:00:58.519 --> 01:01:00.280
of UFOs has been a way it
has. I'm giving us anything, right,

731
01:01:00.719 --> 01:01:05.719
but we've never had these tools before
until now, and we didn't have

732
01:01:05.800 --> 01:01:07.519
people that were willing to go out
and to do this kind of like level

733
01:01:07.559 --> 01:01:14.000
of grunt work and rigor and so
I mean I've always said, you know

734
01:01:14.079 --> 01:01:16.599
that we have for the longest period
of time, I mean, in in

735
01:01:17.000 --> 01:01:22.280
the UFO history of the United States, on the known side. We have

736
01:01:22.639 --> 01:01:31.199
had little scientific study of this phenomenon. Mm hmm. We've had scientists who

737
01:01:31.239 --> 01:01:37.360
sat there read reports. But what
I'm saying is engaging and putting equipment out

738
01:01:37.519 --> 01:01:40.840
and and there's there's very few of
that. You have people that like Ray

739
01:01:40.960 --> 01:01:46.239
Stanford had projects starlighted international years and
years ago that that I was impressed with,

740
01:01:46.280 --> 01:01:51.480
where he actually had some equipment,
And there's been maybe a few others,

741
01:01:51.519 --> 01:01:58.159
but not it's not been you know, uh done from a broader standpoint,

742
01:01:58.199 --> 01:02:01.039
and we've not attacked and we're just
now getting started with that. So

743
01:02:01.119 --> 01:02:06.639
I think that we might be able
to get more scientific data now than we

744
01:02:06.679 --> 01:02:10.440
could in the past. Why do
you think that hasn't happened in the past.

745
01:02:13.960 --> 01:02:17.559
I well, I think that,
you know, I think it's a

746
01:02:17.599 --> 01:02:22.199
matter of that the technology wasn't there. I mean, who had a computer

747
01:02:22.280 --> 01:02:23.599
in the nineteen you know, before
nineteen eighty, you know, I mean

748
01:02:23.880 --> 01:02:30.960
who had that? You know when
I did my investigations back in the early

749
01:02:30.039 --> 01:02:35.920
days of sixty four and after that, I didn't have any equipment. I

750
01:02:35.920 --> 01:02:37.920
didn't have anything that I could really
do it. The pair of binoculars I

751
01:02:37.960 --> 01:02:40.679
had maybe a Geiger counter I had. That's about it, you know.

752
01:02:40.679 --> 01:02:44.920
I mean I had accomplished I could
have walked around with, but I didn't

753
01:02:44.960 --> 01:02:46.480
have any you know, and no
funding to be able to do it.

754
01:02:46.519 --> 01:02:50.519
So it was all just me walking
around the fields trying to do what I

755
01:02:50.519 --> 01:02:55.480
could do and going investigating cases.
And you know that didn't really amount to

756
01:02:55.599 --> 01:03:00.599
much. And then you'd hear about
maybe some people that said, well,

757
01:03:00.599 --> 01:03:04.079
we ought to do this, but
we just you know, the cost of

758
01:03:04.119 --> 01:03:07.119
technology was too great. I mean, now you can you know, your

759
01:03:07.159 --> 01:03:12.039
smartphone is way more capable of doing
all different kinds of things. It's got

760
01:03:12.079 --> 01:03:16.199
a grab a meter, it's it's
got uh the all types of other kinds

761
01:03:16.239 --> 01:03:22.159
of things associated with it, the
accelerometers. So my cell phone alone can

762
01:03:22.199 --> 01:03:24.960
become a tool. I I just
bought the other day a way that I

763
01:03:24.960 --> 01:03:30.079
can get a diffraction grading attached to
my my phone and I can get a

764
01:03:30.159 --> 01:03:37.360
spectral image. Now, so I
mean that's that's unheard of. I mean,

765
01:03:37.639 --> 01:03:40.920
you know, you can use your
smartphone to be able to record radiation.

766
01:03:42.039 --> 01:03:45.079
They've got a little attached bustle they
help you to do that. So

767
01:03:45.199 --> 01:03:49.320
I you know, you're you have
Tesla meter which there's a little app that

768
01:03:49.519 --> 01:03:52.920
allows you to be able to do
uh, two different different things like that

769
01:03:52.960 --> 01:03:55.679
with the magnetic relationship. So I
guess what I'm trying to say is that

770
01:03:57.119 --> 01:03:59.960
the tools are out there now,
they're they're getting down to the root level,

771
01:04:00.320 --> 01:04:02.000
and now the time to be able
to attack it. And I think

772
01:04:02.000 --> 01:04:06.199
that that's why it wasn't done in
the past. They just didn't have tools,

773
01:04:06.320 --> 01:04:12.400
they couldn't get money for yeah,
resources, I mean the few groups

774
01:04:12.440 --> 01:04:18.480
like well, and not only that, people seem not as excited unfortunately with

775
01:04:18.559 --> 01:04:21.920
some of those findings. I guess
it's always kind of the case with science.

776
01:04:21.960 --> 01:04:27.840
I just got done watching the whole
mini series on Einstein Genius from National

777
01:04:27.880 --> 01:04:31.119
Geographic, which was great, and
he had sort of the same problem.

778
01:04:31.119 --> 01:04:34.679
For some reason, he became famous, mostly probably because of his hair,

779
01:04:35.039 --> 01:04:40.280
but unfortunately people didn't care about the
details of things he was excited about.

780
01:04:40.280 --> 01:04:45.159
Often because even France, for example, they've been able to spend some resources

781
01:04:45.199 --> 01:04:54.199
and they have discovered some cases in
which there was a physical effect on electro

782
01:04:54.400 --> 01:04:58.599
magnetic effect in particular in a couple
of cases, and they're really excited about

783
01:04:58.639 --> 01:05:02.559
that. And that has actually even
though through old cases inspired them to continue

784
01:05:02.679 --> 01:05:08.760
investigating UFOs to this day. So
there is a little bit of science that's

785
01:05:08.760 --> 01:05:12.280
been done out there, but it
takes a lot of resources and time and

786
01:05:12.320 --> 01:05:16.239
money and equipment that just so far, you know, that billion researchers haven't

787
01:05:16.239 --> 01:05:24.400
been able to afford exactly exactly.
So I'm encouraged. I think that the

788
01:05:24.440 --> 01:05:29.199
future is wide open in the form
of science and technology being applied to UFOs

789
01:05:29.239 --> 01:05:32.199
because it's getting affordable. And you
know, if you have those people around

790
01:05:32.239 --> 01:05:36.679
the country that are interested in science
and want to apply it, we're all

791
01:05:36.760 --> 01:05:41.679
game for that. I mean,
that's applaud the effort. I mean,

792
01:05:42.199 --> 01:05:45.039
but we need to also do the
rigor of winding up our reports and getting

793
01:05:45.079 --> 01:05:48.840
them into scientific journals and having them
peer reviewed, all those things that you

794
01:05:48.880 --> 01:05:55.360
would expect. And I say that
because you just don't want to have make

795
01:05:55.599 --> 01:06:00.800
articles sent out to the world and
then it all gets criticalized, you know,

796
01:06:00.840 --> 01:06:03.679
and everybody's going to be critical of
it. Well, it's not science.

797
01:06:03.719 --> 01:06:09.760
And even scientists when they put together
their papers and they try to get

798
01:06:09.760 --> 01:06:13.800
them peer reviewed, go through a
very lot of abuse and a lot of

799
01:06:13.880 --> 01:06:17.760
time and effort from other scientists,
you know, so I guess what I'm

800
01:06:17.760 --> 01:06:20.679
trying to say is we've got to
figure this out, and how can we

801
01:06:20.760 --> 01:06:26.760
do it, and how can we
work jointly with I'll say this right now,

802
01:06:26.960 --> 01:06:30.760
between even skeptics and debunkers and everything
else, if you apply scientists to

803
01:06:30.840 --> 01:06:34.239
it, I think that you find
a less resistance. But they seem to

804
01:06:34.280 --> 01:06:38.159
want to go after the fact that
we didn't do our homework, that we

805
01:06:38.159 --> 01:06:43.559
weren't disciplined, and we weren't this
and if you have facts and data that

806
01:06:43.679 --> 01:06:48.000
can stand up on their own and
expert opinion, and often it's hard to

807
01:06:48.079 --> 01:06:55.280
get these experts when you aren't a
credible organization or you're not doing things in

808
01:06:55.360 --> 01:07:02.519
a way that they recognize as credible. So that's really important too. Yeah,

809
01:07:02.559 --> 01:07:08.039
So we for those of us who
have an interest in the UFO phenomena

810
01:07:08.079 --> 01:07:13.159
wanting to solve it or to explain
it or come up with answers and stuff

811
01:07:13.199 --> 01:07:17.440
like that, we really have to
become more disciplined and more objective, and

812
01:07:18.280 --> 01:07:24.119
we have to ditch all these crazy
ideas about you know, the secret space

813
01:07:24.199 --> 01:07:28.159
programs and all other stuff like that
and start to really focus on the study

814
01:07:28.199 --> 01:07:30.679
of the phenomena as it stands right
now. Yeah, I mean, and

815
01:07:31.920 --> 01:07:35.119
go ahead. I was just getting
excited about that comment because it's like,

816
01:07:35.599 --> 01:07:41.639
yeah, you can have you can
have anecdotal information all day long, and

817
01:07:41.679 --> 01:07:45.639
of course those have us in this
field receive that anecdotal information all day long.

818
01:07:45.719 --> 01:07:49.159
Extraordinary claims. But as Carl say, you can said, you know,

819
01:07:49.400 --> 01:07:56.440
extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, which
sets our bar really high, but

820
01:07:56.599 --> 01:08:01.079
you know, it's it's worth the
effort. By the way, I like

821
01:08:01.360 --> 01:08:12.519
what Stanton Freeman says, extraordinary extra
extordinary claims requires extraordinary investigation. Ah,

822
01:08:12.559 --> 01:08:15.239
that's a really good one too,
which yeah, he's put in some really

823
01:08:15.279 --> 01:08:18.479
hard work in the past, no
doubt about that. Well, we're pretty

824
01:08:18.520 --> 01:08:23.560
much out of time, but I
am really excited. And that's what's fun

825
01:08:23.720 --> 01:08:28.319
bringing people like you on because there
are people, and I know a lot

826
01:08:28.319 --> 01:08:30.680
of our listeners who get kind of
bummed, you know, with when they

827
01:08:30.720 --> 01:08:35.119
see a lot of groups organizations moving
towards the fringe. Not that it's you

828
01:08:35.159 --> 01:08:39.960
know, everybody has a right to
do what they want, but it's scary

829
01:08:40.000 --> 01:08:44.880
to see people move away from some
of the harder stuff that I think it's

830
01:08:44.920 --> 01:08:49.119
going to be more fruitful, especially
with getting the mainstream involved with all of

831
01:08:49.159 --> 01:08:54.840
this, and so it's great to
see people like you that are continuing to

832
01:08:55.199 --> 01:09:01.239
just kind of roll up your sleeves
and get at it. And I'm looking

833
01:09:01.279 --> 01:09:05.079
for more people that want to do
that too. So yeah, by all

834
01:09:05.119 --> 01:09:10.880
means, that's that's what we need, and thank you for helping us to

835
01:09:10.880 --> 01:09:14.520
get the word out to people that
this is what we need to do as

836
01:09:14.560 --> 01:09:17.439
well. For sure. All right, well, thank you so much for

837
01:09:17.479 --> 01:09:20.359
coming on the show again. The
time flew. Oh my gosh, it

838
01:09:20.359 --> 01:09:24.880
felt like a couple of minutes instead
of you know, forty five minutes or

839
01:09:24.920 --> 01:09:28.159
so. So thanks for coming on
again, and I'm sure we'll be talking

840
01:09:28.199 --> 01:09:31.159
again in the future. All right, now, you have a nice one

841
01:09:31.279 --> 01:09:36.239
night summer, by the way,
Yeah you too. Thank you so much

842
01:09:36.279 --> 01:09:42.039
to Rich Hoffman for being on the
show. Really exciting stuff. It's so

843
01:09:42.239 --> 01:09:46.079
cool that you know there is science
being done out there, and that there

844
01:09:46.119 --> 01:09:53.520
are people doing the hard, hard
work to try to investigate some of this

845
01:09:53.640 --> 01:09:58.640
phenomena in a more scientific way.
I know it's a lot of hard work,

846
01:09:58.680 --> 01:10:03.239
but it's so doing in my humble
opinion, and I'm very happy that

847
01:10:03.279 --> 01:10:09.840
people like Rich are doing this now. He talked about the Scientific Coalition for

848
01:10:09.960 --> 01:10:15.000
Ufology and they are the group that
investigated the Puerto Rico case that you know,

849
01:10:15.039 --> 01:10:19.520
we've had Robert Powell on, We've
had Morgan Biel on or bell on,

850
01:10:19.760 --> 01:10:24.439
and we've had rich On talking about
that. You can see that report

851
01:10:24.680 --> 01:10:30.560
at the Scientific Coalition for Ufology website
which is explore SCU dot org. Explore

852
01:10:30.760 --> 01:10:33.960
SCU dot org. You can see
the video and get the full report.

853
01:10:34.319 --> 01:10:40.279
Also, you might see it online, especially like at the open Mind UFO

854
01:10:40.520 --> 01:10:45.640
news Facebook group. People battling and
kind of having ideas about what is in

855
01:10:45.680 --> 01:10:48.319
that video, and the SCU is
taking a look at that, and they

856
01:10:48.359 --> 01:10:54.800
do take people very seriously. In
fact, I think that they really do

857
01:10:54.840 --> 01:10:58.000
a lot of work and bend over
backwards for the critics out there, because

858
01:10:58.039 --> 01:11:02.119
you know, they invite criticism,
actually constructive, credible criticism, So they

859
01:11:02.159 --> 01:11:06.199
are trying to answer those questions.
And you can see that at that website

860
01:11:06.279 --> 01:11:11.920
explore SEU dot org. So we'll
see what happens with that as time goes

861
01:11:11.960 --> 01:11:15.880
on. Will they discover this to
be something mundane or will it be discovered

862
01:11:16.079 --> 01:11:23.079
that it is something much much more
mysterious. Stay tuned so you could check

863
01:11:23.079 --> 01:11:26.319
that out. Also, as we
said earlier, you know, the SEU

864
01:11:26.399 --> 01:11:29.359
is going to be doing more and
more exciting stuff now that rich is freed

865
01:11:29.399 --> 01:11:32.039
up time because he's not doing the
move on thing. I know he and

866
01:11:32.199 --> 01:11:38.800
others are going to be spending more
time doing some really cool research and you

867
01:11:38.800 --> 01:11:44.319
know, getting to bet together people
who are interested in the science of things.

868
01:11:45.239 --> 01:11:48.960
Otherwise, thank you so much for
joining us. You can go to

869
01:11:49.000 --> 01:11:53.199
open Minds doat TV to find out
about any of the stuff that we talked

870
01:11:53.199 --> 01:11:56.800
about, all of those stories that
Martin and I talked about Open Minds dot

871
01:11:56.840 --> 01:12:00.039
TV. Of course, like I
say, go to my Facebook and my

872
01:12:00.039 --> 01:12:05.439
my Twitter account so you can follow
some of my adventures coming up in next

873
01:12:05.439 --> 01:12:10.319
week. And my Facebook you can
just find Alejandro t Rojas and you'll see

874
01:12:10.319 --> 01:12:15.039
in parentheses open Minds for that account, and then also for Twitter, it's

875
01:12:15.079 --> 01:12:18.119
just Alejandro t Rojas, So please
go check that out. I would love

876
01:12:18.159 --> 01:12:23.199
for you to join me on my
trips. On my journey to Mars,

877
01:12:23.800 --> 01:12:26.720
I ought to be a lot of
fun or boodha pest. I don't know

878
01:12:26.800 --> 01:12:30.680
why, but I really when I
see the word buddapest and I'd like to

879
01:12:30.720 --> 01:12:34.199
say pest. I don't know if
that's a real accent that people say,

880
01:12:34.199 --> 01:12:38.640
and I got that from television,
but I just boo that pest. It

881
01:12:38.760 --> 01:12:43.039
just sounds fun to do that,
and that's how I like to say the

882
01:12:43.119 --> 01:12:46.239
name of that town. And it's
interesting that I'll actually be there. But

883
01:12:46.319 --> 01:12:50.720
otherwise, UFO Congress lots of new
stuff going on there. You can go,

884
01:12:50.800 --> 01:12:55.600
there's getting there's new videos up on
the video on demand, including my

885
01:12:55.760 --> 01:12:59.600
video and what Ryan Sprague We've got
up there, and I've got more of

886
01:12:59.600 --> 01:13:03.600
that. It'll be coming up next
week. So also ufocongress dot com and

887
01:13:03.640 --> 01:13:06.760
you can see some of the speakers
that we've listed. In fact, one

888
01:13:06.800 --> 01:13:10.359
of the people we're going to have
is Anne Druffels. Some of you that

889
01:13:11.079 --> 01:13:15.560
know her will know how exciting that
is because she hasn't been around for a

890
01:13:15.560 --> 01:13:18.279
while and she's been a researcher for
many, many years. So that's going

891
01:13:18.319 --> 01:13:23.079
to be a lot of fun.
And yeah, just go to ufocongress dot

892
01:13:23.159 --> 01:13:26.680
com to see more. Because I'm
running out of time and I want to

893
01:13:26.720 --> 01:13:29.920
say thank you. I want to
say thank you to Caleb Hanks for the

894
01:13:29.960 --> 01:13:33.319
opening end close music. I want
to say thank you to Systematics who created

895
01:13:33.359 --> 01:13:39.960
that bumper music for me. I
also want to thank kg R for hosting

896
01:13:39.960 --> 01:13:44.960
open Minds Now. I hope you
KGr A listeners are enjoying us. And

897
01:13:45.000 --> 01:13:51.199
then I also want to thank Martin
Martin Willis from podcast UFO for joining me

898
01:13:51.439 --> 01:13:57.640
with the news. He's always a
lot of fun. He is a goofy

899
01:13:58.079 --> 01:14:01.239
fella. So thank you to everybody, and of course, as usual,

900
01:14:01.800 --> 01:14:06.159
thank you to you the listener.
I am so happy that you listen.

901
01:14:08.119 --> 01:14:12.119
Go check out the Devil's Tower thing, because again I love to see listeners

902
01:14:12.479 --> 01:14:16.600
and it's always fun to see people
who listen to the show and say hey

903
01:14:16.640 --> 01:14:19.600
and see what you look like,
and all of that good stuff happens at

904
01:14:19.600 --> 01:14:23.920
every conference and it's a lot of
fun. But anyway, you can find

905
01:14:23.960 --> 01:14:28.159
out more about that Devil's Tower rendezvous
at UFO at open Minds dot tv on

906
01:14:28.319 --> 01:14:33.640
the event page or google the Devil's
Tower UFO rendezvous. That is all time

907
01:14:33.880 --> 01:15:00.720
is up until next time. Audios
moves