1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:07,280 You're listening to the Mind over Murder podcast. My name is Bill Thomas. 2 00:00:07,799 --> 00:00:12,080 I'm a writer, consulting, producer, and now podcaster. I am now 3 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:16,039 trying to use my experience as the brother of a murder victim to help other 4 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:20,280 victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book on the unsolved Colonial Parkway 5 00:00:20,359 --> 00:00:24,760 murders and I'm the co administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together with 6 00:00:24,839 --> 00:00:29,120 Kristin Dilly. My name is Kristin Dilly. I'm a writer, a researcher, 7 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,840 a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the social media 8 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:37,880 manager and co administrator for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner in 9 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:48,920 crime, Bill Thomas. Welcome to the Mind of a Murder. I'm Kristin 10 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:53,280 Dilly and I'm Bill Thomas, and we're joined today by Sarah Sherman. Saul 11 00:00:53,399 --> 00:00:58,719 here to talk to us about the Root twenty nine stocker and potential connections with 12 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:03,719 the Long Island serial killing suspect Rex Huerman. Sarah, thank you for joining 13 00:01:03,799 --> 00:01:07,120 us again on the pod. Thank you both so much for having me. 14 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:11,719 I am such a fan. We were trying to figure out when it was 15 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:17,799 that you were on here last did we ever figure it out? I think 16 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:23,000 it was not this past August, but the August before that. Just remind 17 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:26,519 our listeners, what were we discussing the last time that you joined us. 18 00:01:26,879 --> 00:01:32,280 I actually came on. The first episode was a discussion about the disappearance of 19 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:36,200 a woman here in Charlottesville, Virginia, where I'm from, by the name 20 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:41,040 of Sage Smith, and I wanted to mention that she actually went missing eleven 21 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:44,560 years ago yesterday. I would just like to say that, come on, 22 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:49,640 Charlottesville, solve this murder, because I really don't believe they're working their hardest 23 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,799 on this. I would have to agree it's a missing person's case, but 24 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:57,400 I don't think Sage is going to walk through the door tomorrow. I think, 25 00:01:57,599 --> 00:02:00,959 right we discussed that last time. Yeah, I don't think any of 26 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:05,159 us do. It's good that you mentioned that. We appreciate being able to 27 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,560 mark anniversaries that way. And then I did the second episode with you all 28 00:02:08,719 --> 00:02:15,199 on a woman from Lynchburg who was murdered on the campus of Liberty University, 29 00:02:15,439 --> 00:02:22,919 where a convicted serial murderer and rapist went to university. Jesse Matthew is his 30 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:27,680 name. We discussed her on that second episode, and we discussed the phenomenon 31 00:02:27,879 --> 00:02:34,240 that is missing white woman syndrome. Both of these victims are persons of color, 32 00:02:34,479 --> 00:02:38,719 and in both examples they did not seem to get the kind of attention 33 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:46,800 that other cases did right around the same time. We're not criticizing any family 34 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:51,159 member or member of the community for that matter, who had a concern about 35 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:55,840 a missing person or a murder case. It's very striking how much of a 36 00:02:55,919 --> 00:03:01,319 difference there was in terms of media coverage and partonarticular. Really just so sad. 37 00:03:01,719 --> 00:03:05,479 Still. I had to go back now and I look at stuff about 38 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,919 Cassandra and stuff about Stage every year, at least every year, and it's 39 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:15,639 just the difference in press coverage, the difference in search efforts between dare I 40 00:03:15,719 --> 00:03:21,479 say, these white, petite, gorgeous young women compared to these black females. 41 00:03:21,759 --> 00:03:25,080 Sage was transgender as well, so that's another strike against her as far 42 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:31,159 as law enforcement and looking for her. They both Cassandra was doing some sex 43 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:36,560 work and she was a drug user. And I was just so struck by 44 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:42,120 the difference in coverage. And none of us are criticizing Morgan Harrington's family or 45 00:03:42,159 --> 00:03:46,240 Hannah Graham's family or anyone, no, no, no seeking as much coverage 46 00:03:46,439 --> 00:03:53,000 as they received because they obviously had situations where their daughters had gone missing and 47 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:58,879 they needed the media attention as well. It's just very hard not to contrast, 48 00:03:58,919 --> 00:04:01,919 particularly since these cases were happening around the same time and in the same 49 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:10,800 area, how much publicity Morgan and Hannah received comparatively was on CNN, it 50 00:04:10,879 --> 00:04:15,680 was everywhere massive searches of Hanagram was the largest search in the history of the 51 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:21,040 Commonwealth. When we discussed last time, like what strikes me so deeply and 52 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:27,439 hit so hard is when Sah Smith's father is commenting on the search for Hannah 53 00:04:27,439 --> 00:04:31,000 Gram and when the helicopters flew by his house and he's just thinking the whole 54 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:33,879 time, like, why didn't they do this for my kids. That was 55 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:39,519 a great discussion and thank you for having me back. We wanted to spend 56 00:04:39,519 --> 00:04:44,879 some time today because we knew that when a certain set of newspaper articles crussed 57 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,800 our mutual desks, we figured probably you would be in the best position to 58 00:04:47,879 --> 00:04:51,000 talk about it, just for some context for our listeners who may not be 59 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:56,600 aware. There have been some articles that have appeared in the media recently stating 60 00:04:56,879 --> 00:05:03,279 that Long Island serial killer suspect wrecked hereman appears very similar to the suspect sketch 61 00:05:03,439 --> 00:05:08,120 of the Route twenty nine Stalker. As soon as we saw that, I 62 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:10,800 said, oh, I bet Sarah has a lot to say about this. 63 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:14,759 Sarah. For anybody who may not remember the twenty nine Stoker, can you 64 00:05:14,759 --> 00:05:18,040 give just a really brief rundown of what that case is so that we can 65 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,839 jog everybody's memory before we get into the rescuer mint of it all. The 66 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:29,360 Route twenty nine Stalker case begins well on It's pretty self explanatory on Wrap twenty 67 00:05:29,439 --> 00:05:33,120 nine. Kristin, you described it really well in you All's episodes about the 68 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:39,040 Wrap twenty nine Stalker. It goes from Maryland to Florida. It's a thousand 69 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:44,839 miles it Bisex Virginia, if I can borrow your words, and it's a 70 00:05:44,879 --> 00:05:49,360 really long road. And it starts out with the case of Alicia Showalter Reynolds. 71 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:54,560 She's a pharmacology student. She's twenty five years old, and she attends 72 00:05:54,639 --> 00:06:00,800 Johns Hopkins in Baltimore. She's traveling south to meet her mother in my town 73 00:06:00,879 --> 00:06:05,920 of Charlottesville at a coffee shop off twenty nine called Greenberries, and they're gonna 74 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,759 grab a bite and some coffee, and then they're gonna go, excuse me, 75 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:14,079 dress shopping. March second, nineteen ninety six. Alicia's supposed to show 76 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:16,959 up at ten thirty, and she doesn't, and so her mother calls Alicia's 77 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:21,360 husband, Mark at eleven thirty, so she gives it an hour. Mark 78 00:06:21,439 --> 00:06:26,879 doesn't know and they don't know where Alicia is. And Alicia's body was found 79 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:30,399 on May seventh of nineteen ninety six, so it was quite a while. 80 00:06:30,439 --> 00:06:34,560 It was a couple months. I'm not quite sure why they haven't released a 81 00:06:34,639 --> 00:06:40,199 cause of death. I've heard that she was fairly decomposed. They haven't really 82 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:44,240 released a lot in the stalker case, so I'm also wondering if that might 83 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:46,920 be because they want the killer to say, I'll hold back, Yes, 84 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,120 hold hold back, Okay, yeah, I thank you. Okay. So 85 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:56,319 then we have which you both know very well, Julie Williams and Lollie Winan's. 86 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:01,079 They are found dead at a campsite in Shannona National Park in May of 87 00:07:01,199 --> 00:07:05,160 nineteen ninety six. So nineteen ninety six was a really bad year for us. 88 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:11,160 They were a lesbian couple who were camping and just having a great time 89 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:15,079 out in the Shenandoah National Park and they were found with their throat slit and 90 00:07:15,639 --> 00:07:20,920 naked and bound. Then we have Anne Carolyn McDaniel, who was twenty years 91 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:26,600 old now. She was last seen leaving a group home in Orange, Virginia, 92 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:30,680 which is also right off twenty nine, and that was on September eighteenth 93 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:34,959 of nineteen ninety six. They found her four days later, ten miles away 94 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:41,879 from where they found Alicia Showalter Reynolds. They found poor Anne burned. Her 95 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:46,680 remains were burned. She had died of asphyxia, but was burned after. 96 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:53,000 We also have a lot of people that they mention when you look at the 97 00:07:53,079 --> 00:07:57,240 Route twin and nine soccer. But from our episode that I came on and 98 00:07:57,279 --> 00:08:01,680 did, we have decided and murderer people have been convicted for certain cases that 99 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:07,120 are still on the list of the Rat one nine stalker Samantha Clark. We're 100 00:08:07,279 --> 00:08:11,000 pretty sure that a man named Randy Allen Taylor is good for that. I 101 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:15,759 think that's pretty solid at this point. It really is because he was the 102 00:08:15,839 --> 00:08:20,319 last person to call her cell phone she's an orange. Is she really going 103 00:08:20,399 --> 00:08:24,160 to run into another monster just out leaving our house? That's Randy Taylor. 104 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:30,879 I think given the high level of communication that Taylor had in the days before 105 00:08:30,879 --> 00:08:33,320 she disappeared, particularly on the last day of her life, as far as 106 00:08:33,399 --> 00:08:39,519 we can tell, I think Randy Taylor is definitely Samantha Clark's killer. Ironically, 107 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:45,240 he does not seem to have ever been forthcoming with information about where Samantha's 108 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,360 remains can be found. Hope still exists that somehow we'll find a way to 109 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:54,840 offer Randy Taylor something something wants and Bill. Isn't it interesting how that same 110 00:08:54,960 --> 00:09:01,440 day they found Randy Taylor led them to Alexi remains, that Samantha Clark's case 111 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:07,000 was reclassified from missing in danger to homicide. I don't think that's a coincidence. 112 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:13,799 I think that some limited amount of information must have been offered. Obviously, 113 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:20,559 law enforcement and the people responsible for overseeing Randy Taylor's incarceration would very much 114 00:09:20,759 --> 00:09:26,120 like to see additional information. I talked to Alexis's aunt about this several years 115 00:09:26,159 --> 00:09:31,360 ago. Trina and I were discussing this off the air, about what, 116 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:37,120 if anything, you could offer someone like Randy Taylor in exchange for information like 117 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:41,879 the information he provided regarding where Alexis could be found. Kristin and I had 118 00:09:41,919 --> 00:09:48,519 talked about this. Sometimes serial offenders like this will focus on areas where they 119 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:52,879 have a high comfort level. Sure, we couldn't help but think that there 120 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:58,080 was a possibility that Samantha Clark's remains might be approximate to where Alexis was found. 121 00:10:00,159 --> 00:10:03,440 Interesting, but Kristin was also explaining to me, I'd never been to 122 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:07,480 Orange, Virginia. Just how beautiful and rural it is. Yeah, it's 123 00:10:07,519 --> 00:10:11,639 gorgeous. Oh yes, and it's vast. And I told you guys last 124 00:10:11,639 --> 00:10:16,639 time they drained lakes by my mother's house looking for her. They've done a 125 00:10:16,799 --> 00:10:20,759 good job here. They've tried really hard by Samantha. We've we've really tried 126 00:10:20,799 --> 00:10:26,480 looking for her. We've literally drained bodies of water. So I think Samantha 127 00:10:26,519 --> 00:10:31,679 Clark is clearly linked with Randy Taylor, which probably takes her off the twenty 128 00:10:31,799 --> 00:10:37,000 nine stalker case, unless you're going to try to build a scenario that positions 129 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,679 Randy Taylor is the root twenty nine stalker. But I don't think that's the 130 00:10:39,759 --> 00:10:45,240 case. I don't think that's the case either. We'll get into it later, 131 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,720 but it takes a special kind of someone to be able to pull over 132 00:10:48,799 --> 00:10:54,200 twenty women. That kind of leads into Alexis Murphy, who disappeared on August 133 00:10:54,360 --> 00:11:00,200 third of twenty thirteen. She was headed from her home in Shipman, Virginia, 134 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:05,600 and she was going to Lynchburg. She was caught on CCTV in Lovingston 135 00:11:05,799 --> 00:11:11,120 at this Liberty gas station and Randy Allan Taylor was there, who would later 136 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:15,360 be convicted for her murder. I still don't know how he got her to 137 00:11:15,399 --> 00:11:18,240 go with him. Trina doesn't believe it was about marijuana. Trina may be 138 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:24,679 right. She's not trying to position Alexis as some sort of saint. Trina 139 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:28,000 may be saying is that Alexis, if she was going to buy marijuana, 140 00:11:28,039 --> 00:11:33,440 she would buy marijuana from someone she try else, and this creepy older guy 141 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:39,120 that she ran into at the gas station might not fit that kind of scenario. 142 00:11:39,639 --> 00:11:41,840 If you're going to do something that's a little bit risky. I don't 143 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:46,919 think buying pot is a super risky behavior, you guys. I've met dudes 144 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:52,120 at gas stations and gone to get weed from them. I shouldn't have done 145 00:11:52,159 --> 00:11:56,519 it, but I regret it. I'm glad I'm alive, but it totally 146 00:11:56,519 --> 00:12:01,159 it happens. I agree with what you're saying. Built she had a lot 147 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:05,519 of options. She could have gotten that from anybody and not some creepy old 148 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:09,639 Randy Taylor. Didn't have to be a creeper like Randy Taylor. Agreed, 149 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:13,919 though. We all struggle with this, and we won't ever know unless Taylor 150 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:20,480 tells us why Alexis went with him that day. It's always troubled me. 151 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:24,519 I don't think we have answers there. We're not going to know. And 152 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:28,679 what's so interesting that he led them there? He led the cops there. 153 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:33,080 He says, yeah, come to my house. The guy's so stupid. 154 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:37,440 There's a bloody T shirt and her and eye lash extensions and fingernails and he 155 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:41,679 just he's so dumb. I have this on good authority from several people who 156 00:12:41,759 --> 00:12:45,919 know him that I know, like guys just dumb as a post. There's 157 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:50,600 not much going on upstairs. In addition to all the things you described inside 158 00:12:50,639 --> 00:12:54,200 the trailer. Then we have a search outside the trailer, and if I'm 159 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:58,519 not mistaken, her smashed phone it's found fifteen feet away, and when you 160 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:03,360 see the photographs of the trailer, it's just horrific. Definitely, it's awful, 161 00:13:03,519 --> 00:13:09,639 into the horder kind of category. It's a very strange, bizarrely disorganized 162 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:15,399 way to live. I can't evaluate him from a distance, but I don't 163 00:13:15,399 --> 00:13:18,320 think the guy was a rocket scientist. No, he's not. It's a 164 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:24,480 shame. Also, I should mention Sage Smith. She was a transgender female 165 00:13:24,919 --> 00:13:31,240 nineteen years old, last seen in Charlottesville on November twentieth of twenty twelve, 166 00:13:31,519 --> 00:13:35,200 waiting for a date near downtown, which again is not far from twenty nine. 167 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:41,600 Nothing is far here from twenty nine. We are pretty sure that the 168 00:13:41,639 --> 00:13:46,919 person who is responsible for the disappearance of Sage Smith is named Eric McFadden, 169 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:50,840 and he happens to be in the wind right now. He's a fugitive from 170 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:54,039 justice and the cops need to find him and bring him down here and talk 171 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:58,120 to him. Oh. Absolutely agreed on that one, one hundred percent. 172 00:13:58,399 --> 00:14:01,639 Yeah. I'd be willing to bet a fancy dinner that McFadden is good for 173 00:14:01,919 --> 00:14:07,080 Sage Smith. Without question. I think McFadden was involved in a relationship with 174 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:11,639 a woman whose name will leave out of this thing, because she's a victim 175 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:16,720 as much as anyone, in addition to also being involved with Sage and so 176 00:14:16,159 --> 00:14:22,200 there's a romantic triangle going on there, which is always high risk. Yeah, 177 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:28,440 and I don't think McFadden was being honest with the other woman he was 178 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:33,399 having a relationship with. So I think McFadden is all over the Sage Smith 179 00:14:33,679 --> 00:14:39,720 disappearance without question. I definitely do too. And that brings us to Cassandra 180 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:46,879 Morton going missing ten days before a woman called Morgan Harrington goes missing. Cassandra 181 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:52,799 Morton goes missing on November tenth, two thousand and nine, from her home 182 00:14:52,879 --> 00:14:56,639 on Park Avenue in Lynchburg, which I did go to and scoped out. 183 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:58,679 I went to the site where they found the body. I went to her 184 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:03,639 parent house. We still don't know what happened to Cassandra, but I think 185 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:07,639 Jesse Matthew is probably good for Cassandra Morton. I'm a little less certain, 186 00:15:07,799 --> 00:15:11,279 Kristin, how do you feel some of them? We already have suspects in 187 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:16,320 custody for Jesse Matthew, like you mentioned, Randy Taylor, like we also 188 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:20,320 mentioned, But then you also have people like Cassandra Morton that maybe you can 189 00:15:20,399 --> 00:15:24,879 loop them in as being somebody who's responsible. But at the same time you 190 00:15:24,919 --> 00:15:28,080 also have to look at some of these things and go okay, maybe not. 191 00:15:28,679 --> 00:15:33,200 Well sure. The most complex areas of this case for me is all 192 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,559 of the potential areas of overlap, and we're never really going to know. 193 00:15:35,759 --> 00:15:39,360 I think for Cassandra, was this as a result of some of the sex 194 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:43,639 work that she was doing or was she a victim of Jesse Matthew. That's 195 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:48,039 I feel like where the interesting complexities of the twenty nine Stocker case come in. 196 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:52,279 For me, We're just never quite sure. Yeah, it's definitely interesting 197 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:58,000 and it's frustrating, that's for sure. I should say that Cassandra Morton was 198 00:15:58,039 --> 00:16:03,320 found five weeks after she went missing, so again with Cassandra, we've got 199 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:08,440 no cause of death. And then Morgan Dana Harrington attends a concert here at 200 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:12,519 the John Paul Jones Arena. She's going to attend a Metallica show and that's 201 00:16:12,559 --> 00:16:18,879 on October seventeenth of two thousand and nine, and she's abducted by now convicted 202 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,679 serial killer and rapist Jesse Matthew. Her body, however, is not found 203 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:27,559 till January twenty sixth of twenty ten, which is I believe one hundred and 204 00:16:27,639 --> 00:16:33,440 five days if I'm mapping correctly. Interestingly enough, we had two blizzards while 205 00:16:33,559 --> 00:16:38,399 she was laying there, and so her mother said, even her bones were 206 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:42,559 beautiful. I'll never forget that, morbid, but it's I don't know, 207 00:16:42,679 --> 00:16:48,080 I just just harkens such a striking image, a horrific image. It was 208 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:55,759 September of twenty thirteen. Hannah Graham is a UVA student and the University of 209 00:16:55,799 --> 00:17:00,000 Virginia is located in Charlottesville, and she was trying to find a party this 210 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:04,680 one night. She got lost, and she also had been pregaming, meaning 211 00:17:04,759 --> 00:17:11,480 like drinking. She found herself on the Downtown Mall, which is an outside 212 00:17:11,759 --> 00:17:15,400 shopping area. Kristin, I took you down there, and I showed you 213 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,400 where they got. You're on the CCTV and everything. And a man called 214 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:23,960 Jesse Matthew, who would be later convicted for this, stalked her all down 215 00:17:25,039 --> 00:17:29,920 in Downtown Mall and Buddy butted up with her in I think trying to be 216 00:17:30,079 --> 00:17:33,680 in the guise of some kind of savior. She didn't much want anything to 217 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:38,000 do with it. She really tried to push him off and lose him several 218 00:17:38,039 --> 00:17:41,039 times that evening, and he just kept popping back up. It was like 219 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:47,039 she stood no chance. And he was supplying her with drinks towards the end 220 00:17:47,039 --> 00:17:51,279 of the evening at a bar called Tempo, which is no longer in existence, 221 00:17:51,519 --> 00:17:53,799 obviously because they got in a lot of trouble. After that, they 222 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:59,200 end up at his car and there's witnesses even I know you know this, 223 00:17:59,319 --> 00:18:03,240 but there's witness is going He's gonna f her up all these things, and 224 00:18:03,279 --> 00:18:07,039 the police station's like right up the road. I struggle with this because if 225 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:12,480 I saw Jesse and Hannah that night, I often wonder could I have helped 226 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:17,319 her? I would have asked, can I call someone for you? People 227 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:21,200 saw this, They saw it all night and they remarked on it. The 228 00:18:21,279 --> 00:18:26,880 dogs found Hannah, they sent they smelled. This was the first case in 229 00:18:26,039 --> 00:18:33,039 history, I believe, where the canines actually smelled Hannah's fear. The dogs 230 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:37,000 actually caught her scent on his car, and it was fear. One of 231 00:18:37,079 --> 00:18:41,880 the things that came out during the investigation is that Morgan Harrington and Hannah Graham 232 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:48,880 were Jesse Matthews tight and when they asked people at the bar who knew Matthew. 233 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:52,400 He hung out there frequently. He was known to look for pretty, 234 00:18:52,640 --> 00:19:00,319 blonde, incapacitated young college women, and these two women and many apparently fit 235 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:04,759 the same pattern where he would find these women. He was working part time 236 00:19:04,799 --> 00:19:10,440 as a cab driver, and of course that afforded him the opportunity to sexually 237 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:15,319 assault a number of women. He could be involved in other sexual assaults and 238 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,880 murders. Certainly he was linked initially to a case in Fairfax where he had 239 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:23,079 sexually assaulted a woman. But you can see a pattern and a pattern of 240 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:30,079 escalation with Matthew over a period of years. And that night, the night 241 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,480 that he abducted and killed Hannah. That night, you guys, he was 242 00:19:33,599 --> 00:19:38,440 just I think at Jim Clemente would call it unraveling because he's like picking women 243 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:42,799 up at the bar, He's like spinning them around. He took a woman's 244 00:19:42,799 --> 00:19:47,119 shoes off, and he said that a woman who takes care of her feet 245 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:51,880 takes care of everything else. Lah, this guy's just he's going to kill 246 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,960 someone that night. He is just losing it. And Bill, you brought 247 00:19:56,039 --> 00:19:59,880 up a good point. However, I don't think Jesse and I interviewed my 248 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,279 friend who owns a bar called Rapture downtown, and she told me, Sarah, 249 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:07,839 he always hits on the drunkest girl at the bar. She would warn 250 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,400 then, don't go home with this guy. She knew. She didn't know 251 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,640 he was a murderer, but she got a really bad vibe often. And 252 00:20:14,759 --> 00:20:18,400 anybody, I think, if you're a bartender, if you're an establishment owner, 253 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:22,680 and you notice this creep or person like hitting on the most disadvantaged girl 254 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:26,279 at the bar, you're going to keep that in your mind and store that 255 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:30,079 for later. So he had. He did have quite a reputation. Although 256 00:20:30,279 --> 00:20:33,680 part of me wants to say that's the kind of guy that should be banned 257 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:38,720 from your bar. It it prouble should be people that are known to slip 258 00:20:38,799 --> 00:20:45,359 drugs surreptitiously into women's strengths, which has been just endemic in the past several 259 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:51,200 years. These are things that bartenders and waitresses and the owners of bars need 260 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:56,359 to be watching for. There were people interviewed after the Jesse Matthew case began 261 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:03,039 to come together that said his reputation seated him for years, and he was 262 00:21:03,279 --> 00:21:06,839 known as a creeper, and he was known as a rapist, and this 263 00:21:07,079 --> 00:21:11,400 was permitted to go on. He always, like you said, on the 264 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:15,200 drunkest woman at the bar, because he knew that he could take them home 265 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:18,519 or take them out to his car and sexually assault them, and many of 266 00:21:18,559 --> 00:21:22,839 them would never report it. So I think he's responsible for any number of 267 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:30,160 other unsolved and perhaps unreported sexual assaults. You're listening to Mind over Murder. 268 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:41,279 We'll be right back after this word from our sponsors. We're back here at 269 00:21:41,319 --> 00:21:47,000 mindover Murder. I think it's very interesting, Sarah. We've talked about a 270 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:55,119 number of cases here that are twenty nine Stocker adjacent. We've mentioned Jesse Matthew, 271 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,920 who is a known serial killer. We have mentioned Randy Taylor, who 272 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:04,200 also is good for or we're fairly sure to murders Samantha Clark and Alexis Murphy. 273 00:22:04,319 --> 00:22:08,960 But now this idea that has come up recently in the press that maybe 274 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:14,880 another he's only been accused, not convicted, but another accused serial killer, 275 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:19,960 Rex Heureman, was apparently maybe spending some time in Virginia right around the same 276 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:25,599 time of the twenty nine Stoker case. So this article crossed our desks. 277 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:30,079 Bill in mind I think about a week ago maybe, and in a week 278 00:22:30,839 --> 00:22:32,960 it took me a little bit to be able to catch up on it. 279 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,000 But then people started sending me copies and copies and they're like, have you 280 00:22:36,079 --> 00:22:40,759 followed this? The conceit here, I think is that the Route twenty nine 281 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:48,319 stalker suspect sketch looks very similar to Rex Huerman, who is the accused Long 282 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:52,039 Island serial killer, the list killer. Yes, what are your thoughts on 283 00:22:52,079 --> 00:22:56,960 that? Sarah? When you saw that suspect sketch and you saw that picture 284 00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:00,839 of Rex Huerman, did bells go off for you with like a ding ding 285 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,240 moment or what are your thoughts on this? It was a little bit of 286 00:23:03,319 --> 00:23:07,000 both a ding ding moment and then a not so much moment. But he 287 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:12,920 does look like the sketch with that wispy reddish brown hair. And I've been 288 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,359 told I can't find a picture of him from ninety six. I haven't been 289 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:21,119 able to yet, but I've been told by several sources that he wasn't as 290 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:26,200 big then. He's tall, but he wasn't apparently as round then. I've 291 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:30,599 seen some photographs of him and he was definitely thinner, and his face was 292 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:36,119 face is thinner. He's still round faced, but not as beefy looking as 293 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:40,680 he is now I think as correct height as six' four, but yeah, 294 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:44,400 big guy. My initial thoughts were, Wow, this is interesting, 295 00:23:44,559 --> 00:23:47,880 right of course, because he does look like the sketch. And I talked 296 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:52,960 a little bit off air about Hureman and his profile. It has been rumored 297 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:59,359 to be able to convince sex workers who have been at this a while to 298 00:23:59,559 --> 00:24:03,119 do so, sir, and things that sex workers wouldn't normally do, as 299 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:07,599 in leave their cell phones. What always bothered me about the Alicia Showalter Reynolds 300 00:24:07,599 --> 00:24:12,839 case is that I know she's twenty five, She's a graduate student at Hopkins. 301 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:18,880 Like this is a smart person who is going to convince her that her 302 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:23,240 car is having sparks and your car is having trouble and pull her over and 303 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:27,720 get her into a car? What man? And then I thought about the 304 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:33,279 psychopathy of Rex Heureman, and he does line up with that. He could. 305 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,559 I think he could probably talk Alicia Reynolds into a car, So that 306 00:24:37,759 --> 00:24:44,279 was interesting to me. However, I have to say that I'm not You 307 00:24:44,319 --> 00:24:48,880 guys both know I'm not formally trained, I'm not quantico, but I've certainly 308 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:53,240 schooled myself from the very best for years. And Rex Hureman is doing one 309 00:24:53,279 --> 00:24:59,160 type of thing in Long Islands since probably nineteen ninety six, and that is 310 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:06,079 girls trolling, escorts, strolling sex workers, whether that be on the street, 311 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,279 in sex clubs. It's most of the time he's doing it on Craigslist 312 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:15,960 or what was called Backpage. He is trolling for his preference is sex workers 313 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:23,480 who look very childlike. He is very driven to find this specific victim for 314 00:25:23,519 --> 00:25:26,920 this specific time and for this specific purpose. Do you know what I mean? 315 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:32,160 Yes? And so I think that it's a bit of a stretch to 316 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:37,680 think that Rex Huerman has suddenly decided to pull over random women and start telling 317 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,559 them that there's something wrong with their car in hopes of killing them. It's 318 00:25:41,839 --> 00:25:48,000 just not his mo. And I realize that serial killers switch emos. I 319 00:25:48,079 --> 00:25:53,599 realize that happens. I just don't think it's statistically happens in this way. 320 00:25:55,079 --> 00:25:59,039 I would like to mention that, of course, it's very strange that Hureerman's 321 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:03,279 mother was living fifteen miles away from me in a town called paul Myra, 322 00:26:03,519 --> 00:26:11,000 Virginia, in a development called Lake Monticello, which has always It's so funny 323 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:17,160 that development has always reminded me so much of that place Shannon Gilbert from the 324 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:21,839 Long Island Serial Killer case went missing from, called Oak Beach. It just 325 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:26,519 has this kind of similar vibe, especially at night. And I also found 326 00:26:26,519 --> 00:26:30,119 out a really interesting thing. And I'm allowed to say it because I talked 327 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,839 to a lawyer friend of mine a couple of days ago, okay, and 328 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,359 she told me, I'm totally cool to say it. Lake Monticello, where 329 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:44,960 Hureman's mother was living, has a thriving swingers club. Oh my. And 330 00:26:45,039 --> 00:26:49,119 it's interesting with this swingers club down here. And then there's been talk of 331 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:55,680 Rex and his wife attending a swingers club the night that they met Karen Vergatta, 332 00:26:55,759 --> 00:26:59,680 who was formerly known as Fire Island Jane Do. So you have these 333 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:07,000 little interesting colonels around this Alicia Show, Walter Reynolds case and Rex Heureman like 334 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,960 he For example, I mapped out his route, the route that say he 335 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:15,079 would have taken if he was going to visit his mother that day from Massapequa 336 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:22,160 Park to Palmyra, Virginia. And he's on her route if he's on ninety 337 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:27,200 five and she's going from Baltimore to Charlottesville. She's on ninety five, then 338 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:33,039 she's on twenty nine. I always thought that Alicia, that someone caught her 339 00:27:33,079 --> 00:27:37,200 in their sites closer to Culpepper, and then with this hereman development, or 340 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:42,279 that this hereman maybe possible tie in, it makes me wonder that's interesting, 341 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,920 like if it was Hureman, did he get her in his sights much more 342 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:51,559 closer to Maryland if it was him, and did he stalk her? Because 343 00:27:51,559 --> 00:27:56,319 he certainly was a stalker. He loves troll. He stalks the victims' families, 344 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:02,640 he calls them. He's a actual satis, so he likes to even 345 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:07,839 after his victims are dead. He likes to prolong the torture and inflict it 346 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,160 upon the families and friends. He's quite a piece of work. I find 347 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:15,480 it all really interesting. However, I do find it a reach, just 348 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:22,319 given who Rex Hureman is compared to who I think the Route twenty nine stalker 349 00:28:22,559 --> 00:28:26,559 is as far as their profiles, that sounds like a pretty good assessment to 350 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,680 me. And I know that when a bunch of people reached out and said, 351 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,160 hey, have you read this? What do you think? My first 352 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:40,039 impulse was to say, oh, this is interesting and certainly the sketch has 353 00:28:40,119 --> 00:28:44,720 some similarities to Hureman, but my first impulse was to go, Okay, 354 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,599 are we trying to link what we think is the serial killer of the moment? 355 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,160 Are we trying to link Rex Hureman to everything up and down the East 356 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:57,279 Coast that's unsolved, because it does feel like sometimes that happens. We've heard 357 00:28:57,279 --> 00:29:02,599 in our case, Oh Zodiac did Colonial Parkway murders? Oh Edward Edwards did 358 00:29:02,599 --> 00:29:07,079 it great? Like insert serial killer of the week, someone has tried to 359 00:29:07,119 --> 00:29:11,359 connect them. So I will admit that my first thought when people started sending 360 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,480 this to me it was multiple people. My first thought was, this is 361 00:29:15,519 --> 00:29:18,640 interesting, But is it only because Rex Hureman was so recently in the news 362 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,880 that it's happening, or is this a legitimate piece of well oh, Bill 363 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,880 and Kristen. I do want to mention that Rex has property in South Carolina 364 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:33,119 and they are looking at a girl that I truly believe could be a victim 365 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:37,119 of his down there, named Julia Bean. The story it just adds up, 366 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:41,839 and then there's texts after she disappears that I don't think are from Julia. 367 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:48,039 It's quite interesting. So we do have him traveling down the coast, 368 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,480 which is I found interesting, And of course they do this every time with 369 00:29:52,559 --> 00:29:56,279 the serial killer of the week. When someone gets arrested, they want to 370 00:29:56,279 --> 00:30:00,240 look into him for other things. Yeah, recently think that this link, 371 00:30:00,319 --> 00:30:07,359 that this should be investigated. Thoroughly agreed. And one interesting development from my 372 00:30:07,519 --> 00:30:12,759 perspective as well, is that Alisa Showalter Reynolds's siblings have now stepped forward, 373 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:17,799 and as we were discussing off air, this is for the first time that 374 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:23,559 I'm aware of Patrick Showalter, who's actually Alicia's twin brother, and her younger 375 00:30:23,599 --> 00:30:29,799 sister, Barbara Showalter. Joseph Hans if I'm saying that correctly, have both 376 00:30:30,119 --> 00:30:36,480 spoken out and done interviews in the media saying that they think similarities are substantial 377 00:30:36,599 --> 00:30:41,680 enough that they believe the Virginia State Police should be coordinating with New York authorities 378 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,119 and of course the FBI to at least take a look at Huerman as a 379 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:51,319 potential suspect in their twenty nine stocker case. And Bill, I believe that 380 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:56,680 they are because I had a conversation last night with John Ray, who is 381 00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:02,119 Shannon Gilbert's family's attorney up in Long Island, and he represents some of the 382 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:07,279 other victims' family members as well. I was calling him because I really wanted 383 00:31:07,319 --> 00:31:11,920 to know what kind of vehicle Hureman was driving back in ninety six, and 384 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,960 I couldn't, for the life of me find it. A friend of mine 385 00:31:15,039 --> 00:31:17,839 said, why don't you just call up that guy, John Ray and see 386 00:31:17,839 --> 00:31:19,400 if he can help you out. So I did, and he called me 387 00:31:19,519 --> 00:31:23,440 back, and they are trying to find that vehicle. Now they have not 388 00:31:23,519 --> 00:31:27,559 been able to find it either, but he told me some interesting stuff that 389 00:31:27,839 --> 00:31:33,400 we know that Rex Huerman bought two Chevy Avalanches in a row. Those are 390 00:31:33,519 --> 00:31:37,640 pickup trucks. The vehicle he had when he was arrested. He purchased the 391 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,680 first one in two thousand and one when the Chevy Avalanche came out, so 392 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,880 those weren't were not released before two thousand and one, so he wouldn't have 393 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:51,000 been driving that in nineteen ninety six. The point that John Ray made to 394 00:31:51,039 --> 00:31:56,519 me was that he did favor pickup trucks, so this goes back. I 395 00:31:56,559 --> 00:32:01,440 think that's also a little interesting seeing as our POI for the twenty nine Stalker. 396 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:07,000 Everybody says it's a dark Ford or Masta pickup truck or a pickup truck 397 00:32:07,039 --> 00:32:10,799 with zigzags. We know that Rex likes trucks. I guess that's a maybe 398 00:32:12,039 --> 00:32:15,759 you could check that. I was disappointed in that I didn't get to find 399 00:32:15,799 --> 00:32:20,680 out the exact make and model of the vehicle he was driving in ninety six, 400 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:25,720 although mister Ray said that Rex had access to several vehicles throughout the years. 401 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:32,039 Interesting as well that in the twenty nine stalker case they also felt that 402 00:32:32,279 --> 00:32:38,319 the offender had access to multiple vehicles because there were several different pickup trucks described 403 00:32:38,359 --> 00:32:45,200 as being used by this potential offender. It's also interesting that close to twenty 404 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:51,359 women came forward after Alisia Showalter Reynolds disappeared and was found murdered, and they 405 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,319 had said that someone attempted to pull them over. And my recollection is that 406 00:32:54,400 --> 00:33:00,119 at least three to five of them actually did pull over. So he was 407 00:33:00,119 --> 00:33:04,279 was able to convince some of these women. And remember some of this is 408 00:33:04,319 --> 00:33:07,400 during the day as well. He's not necessarily doing this at night, where 409 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:13,440 I think people's antenna would be even further up in terms of potential problems along 410 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,519 the road. This twenty nine s soccer suspect did manage to convince a fair 411 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:22,200 number of people to pull over. Some of them interacted with him at gas 412 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:28,839 stations. At least one victim climbed into his pickup truck with him after getting 413 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,920 this same line about, oh, there were sparks under your car, you 414 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,920 need to pull over. I'll take you to a safe spot. And she 415 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:40,160 actually managed to escape his truck after he attempted to stab her with a screwdriver. 416 00:33:40,759 --> 00:33:45,640 She jumped out of a moving vehicle broke her ankle, as my recollection 417 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:50,599 broke. She did survive, and she's actually one of the people who provided 418 00:33:50,599 --> 00:33:54,720 the description which resulted in the catch. It is true. I don't think 419 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,799 there's much way around this. From my point of view, Rex human does 420 00:33:58,839 --> 00:34:02,880 look a fair amount like this sketch. He really does. I just have 421 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:09,039 the problem with is he really gonna switch his whole mind up and decide to 422 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:15,280 go after women who are not sex workers, women who are lone travelers on 423 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,800 the road, And he's going to start with this thing of hey, not 424 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:22,880 either's sparks flying from your car. We need to find you a mechanic. 425 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:27,480 It doesn't really add up for me, and it doesn't mean that it's He's 426 00:34:27,519 --> 00:34:30,840 not the guy. I'm just saying that, with all the work and research 427 00:34:31,079 --> 00:34:37,000 that I have that I've put into this list case, with everything I know 428 00:34:37,199 --> 00:34:42,039 about criminals, which pales in comparison to some folks y'all know, I'm just 429 00:34:42,119 --> 00:34:46,519 saying that the victimology, it's completely different. That part of it, which 430 00:34:46,559 --> 00:34:52,360 is so important, It's just not there for me. I share your skepticism. 431 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:54,920 The one thing I'll say a thought that has crossed my mind while we've 432 00:34:54,960 --> 00:35:01,320 been talking about this, is there any chance that Hureman is keeping himself entertained 433 00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:07,079 if I've thought about that with the long drive sta Virginia to see his mother, 434 00:35:07,119 --> 00:35:12,760 who does live in the area, he is thinking to himself, I'm 435 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:17,119 just going to try this out. Because even the Virginia State Police said at 436 00:35:17,159 --> 00:35:22,440 the time they thought that the offender was escalating, he was trying to get 437 00:35:22,519 --> 00:35:27,719 up the nerve to attack these women. This could have been the game for 438 00:35:28,079 --> 00:35:31,920 the offender as well, a cat and mouse thing. Can I convince complete 439 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:37,360 strangers these women in these other cars to pull over based on my oh, 440 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:43,079 there's a problem with your vehicle beeping his horn and flashing his lights and pointing 441 00:35:43,159 --> 00:35:47,239 under their vehicles, and it did actually work? Could this be serial Killered? 442 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:51,920 Cat and Mouse games? Right? And Bill and Kristen I also thought 443 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:57,519 of So nineteen ninety six is up in Long Island. That's when Karen Vergotta 444 00:35:57,559 --> 00:36:01,079 goes missing, who was formerly known as Fire Island Jane Doe, and she 445 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:06,079 is associated with Rex Hureman. He has not been charged for her. He's 446 00:36:06,119 --> 00:36:09,800 been only charged with three of the Gilgo Beach four. Karen Viergatta is in 447 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:15,159 ninety six. I'm thinking that's the first victim that we know of that we 448 00:36:15,199 --> 00:36:22,239 can associate with human or possibly associate with human. I'm thinking I was thinking 449 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:23,840 on the other side of this, like you, Bill, this is a 450 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:30,960 serial killer who is just forming. So maybe he is going down to Virginia 451 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:34,360 and he is saying, hey, how about I try this. This is 452 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,880 exciting. Maybe I can do this. Maybe I can get these women in 453 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:42,000 my car with me. Maybe I can do this whole different thing picture kind 454 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,320 of a baby serial killer. Maybe he's doing his thing up in Long Island 455 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:50,920 with the sex workers. Maybe he's in Virginia down here stalking and pulling women 456 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,880 over. There's a possibility. And there's one other thing I'll throw in the 457 00:36:53,920 --> 00:37:00,199 mix here if this was Hureman, if he was not as well plugged into 458 00:37:00,599 --> 00:37:07,760 access to sex workers in Virginia as he would have been in his home turf 459 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:13,880 of Long Island. When we talked to our friend Joe jacklone, longtime cold 460 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:19,800 case homicide detective, he felt that the Gilgo Beach for Long Island serial killer 461 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:28,239 offender now identified as Rex Huerman, had switched up his approach from initially picking 462 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:34,079 up prostitutes off the streets of primarily New York City and that area. Then 463 00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:43,719 he transitioned over to using the newspaper, newsletter back pages and escort service ads 464 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:50,599 on Craigslist, and then ultimately moves more towards an Internet model as those businesses 465 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:58,320 shifted their focus. Each of those steps allows someone like Huerman to distance himself 466 00:37:58,559 --> 00:38:04,639 a bit from being tracked in terms of making these connections with these sex workers. 467 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,320 He's moving away from picking up what were then called street walkers, and 468 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:14,800 then obviously he can be seen negotiating with and connecting with those women and then 469 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:20,679 inviting them into his vehicle. You can see how the change to print and 470 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:25,880 then the Internet gives him more distance, It gives him more anonymity. I 471 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:30,239 think exactly, and this was something that Joe jackalone had mentioned to us. 472 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:38,119 He believes that Hureman took advantage of those technological advancements as a way of creating 473 00:38:38,159 --> 00:38:44,440 that distance. He's still making the connection into a paid sex worker encounter, 474 00:38:44,679 --> 00:38:47,559 but he's doing it in a way where he's not actually going to be seen 475 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:52,039 because the whole thing ultimately shifts over to the internet. It does. It's 476 00:38:52,159 --> 00:38:59,159 fascinating. It's really fascinating to think that Hureman could just be doing his thing 477 00:38:59,199 --> 00:39:02,199 in Virginia. It wasn't linking up for me until you start, until we 478 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:07,719 really started to talk about it. I think a good question to leave this 479 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:12,159 on, because this is a fascinating conversation, but ultimately it's one that is 480 00:39:12,199 --> 00:39:15,280 going to require further investigation from law enforcement as opposed to from the three of 481 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:20,760 us. Yeah, but I do think it is very interesting to note why 482 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:25,119 so many serial killers in your particular area of Virginia, Sarah, because there 483 00:39:25,159 --> 00:39:30,039 have been so many many I went back to that with my husband the other 484 00:39:30,159 --> 00:39:34,840 night, Kristen, just how many can there be? And then you guys 485 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:42,360 talking to fits about the probability and yeah, and it's just it's horrifying it 486 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:45,920 is, and I think that is something. Whether it turns out Rex Huerman 487 00:39:45,079 --> 00:39:51,920 was hunting here or no, it is definitely something worth pondering. It really 488 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,760 is and it definitely deserves a thorough investigation. Listeners, we hope that you 489 00:39:55,800 --> 00:40:00,639 will sound off in the comments for this episode. What do you think was 490 00:40:00,639 --> 00:40:05,519 Rex human potentially hunting in Virginia as part of the Route twenty nine stocker case. 491 00:40:05,559 --> 00:40:07,199 We would love to hear your thoughts. Sarah, Thank you so much 492 00:40:07,199 --> 00:40:12,480 for joining us today. We appreciate your time and expertise. Thank you both 493 00:40:12,559 --> 00:40:15,800 so much. It was my pleasure that is going to do it for this 494 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:19,800 episode of mind Ever Murder. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see 495 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:32,760 you next time. Mind Over Murder is a production of Absolute Zero and Another 496 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:38,599 Dog Productions. Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley. Our logo 497 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:45,000 art is by Pamela Arnois. Our theme music is by Kevin McLoud. Mind 498 00:40:45,039 --> 00:40:50,280 Over Murder is distributed in partnership with Coral Space Media. You can follow us 499 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:53,360 on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. You can also follow our page on 500 00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:59,159 the Colonial Parkway Murders on Facebook, and finally, you can follow Bill Thomas 501 00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:05,159 on Twitter at Bill Thomas. Five six Thank you for listening to Mind Over Murder.