Hello, and welcome to Open Mind UFO Radio. My name is Alejandro Rojas
and I am with Martin UFO. Willis Hello, Martin. Hello, how
good? I called you a mister UFO when we started talking a little bit
ago. Yeah, I'll take you either title. It's a good title.
Yeah. I can't remember what it says on my license. I think that's
all my passport. Yeah, mister UFO, that's a sad thing to have
on your passport. You don't want to know you want to stay incognito,
dude. I know. I get stuck at all the time at different ports.
And yeah, because when I travel doing UFO investigations, I go as
a I wear a fake beard or mustache, and I come up with these
different personalities, you know, just because you have to do kind of a
cloak and dagger thing to keep the mystery going. Well, I just kind
of, you know, I put on a Stanton Freeman mask. Good idea
works, Yeah, it works. So I have a great guest today.
His name is Rob Mercer and he works with Ohio move On. He has
his own site called the Miami Valley UFO Society. And this isn't Miami in
Florida, it's in Ohio. However, I'm kind of like curious. You
know, I found out about this guy. He's got these blue book files
no one ever has ever seen before, really cool stuff that he found,
and we'll talk about what's in there and how he found them. But I
hear that you interviewed him. How the heck did you find out about Rob
before I did? Oh? Because even though I called you mister UFO as
being nice, i'm mister UFO. I know. Well, actually I'm not
going to reveal my sources. No, I will say I was. I
was contacted by someone in the Midwest that knew him. It's also a researcher,
and he said, hey, you should ask this guy in the show.
He's a great guy. It'll be a great interview. And you know,
I don't want to spoil your interview, but you know he's going to
tell you how he found them, which is amazing, and I think it's
a Once you hear that, you're gonna the listener out there may think,
wow, that's a great idea, and more stuff may be found the same
way he found it. Yeah. I know others who have found stuff over
the years that is really cool, interesting information. So yeah, it's a
great story. We'll be talking about it soon. I found out about it
from Shepherd Johnson, who is a guy online well. He's written for Open
Minds occasionally for the magazine and for the web, and he also is just
online once in a while. He's part of the Roswell Slides research group that
we talked about, of course with roswell slides. And here it goes roswell
slides wearing at uglyhead again. In fact, I have a bit of an
update. Might as well talk about it for the audience. I haven't bothered
to write about it because I'm so done with the slides. I think it's
the case closed with tons of nails on the confident. Of course, more
nails are coming. But there is a gentleman who has found ooh, and
I could give more information and practically anybody out there. So there is another
picture of this mummified body that has been found. It's a photo that was
taken in the fifties by a guy named Frank Hadel. Of course, when
it was posted online by an associate of Hi Mas, Jim immediately said that
it was a fake. He thought it was a painting or a photoshop.
And this is what frustrates me. I can understand someone calling something a fake
or a hoax if they've investigated, but I'm really getting kind of at the
end of the line here with Hi Mai. Immediately he calls things a hoax
or a fake without doing any investigation or research. And what's frustrating about this
is a Roswell Slides group. They are very careful researchers and they verify and
demonstrate everything they've discovered. So they did what Hime should have done, and
they did more research and they discovered that, you know, this slide comes
from a photo that was posted in two thousand and eight by this couple that's
been posting a lot of their old photographs, including their wedding that happened way
back in the in the fifties or something. A very attractive couple when they
got married. But Frank Hadel was his name, and so one of the
Roswell Research Group, guys Isaac Cooy, we've talked about him many times before
on this show. He actually got a hold of Frank Hadel and Frank sent
him a picture of the actual slide that that came from. And so there's
a little bit more about this, But this is another picture, and again
it says it's a mommified body and that it comes from S. L.
Palmer, that it was retrieved at Montezuma's castle. Everything that the researchers have
found thus far about the thing is just all being reinforced by all of this,
but yet more news there. I haven't written a story because it's just
so done, But at this point I kind of feel like a best case
scenario. Best best case scenario, if there's anything anomalous about this body,
it's that it might have, you know, some anatomical or physiological abnormalities.
Best case, most likely it isn't that abnormal, but it's got nothing to
do with UFOs, roswell aliens, blah blah blah. Right, No,
I'm right there with you. I saw the picture and right away there's some
distinguishing marks. But for him to say that, I believe he said it
was a painted over photo. Yeah, and that's interesting. I don't know
how you could paint over a photo so accurately as that. Yeah. But
you know, if you look online, you can see the document that Heimi
made out and signed for a ten thousand dollars reward for anyone that proves it's
a mummy, and I don't think he wants to give up that money.
Yeah, ten thousand dollars for some kind of proof and then five thousand dollars
for a photo. So this photo should fit that criteria to get the five
thousand dollars. So, but of course it's just so disingenuous and kind of
hoax of yourself. You don't put up a reward if you're not have no
intentions of fulfilling it or at least doing some due diligence to investigate. But
right off the batt he calls it a hoax. Yeah, I would really
like to step into the future and see and look back and see how this
whole thing plays out. But I said all along, right from the very
beginning, that Hymie's not going to back down, and I still feeling the
same way. You're probably right very for striking. That's how are UK friends?
You probably haven't I like to We have a lot of UK listeners,
of course, you and I and I'm sure on your show podcast UFO,
you interview researchers from the UK like Nick Pope, and I love the way
they say frustrating and so often I say frustrating like they I like the way
they spell too an organization with anes instead of a Z. That's so weird,
man. So let's get into the news. Even though I already got
into some news that wasn't UFO news, that was you know, anthropopological news.
But let's get into the UFO news. Martin, Why don't you start
things up. What do you want to talk about? Well, this is
a this is a case where I think that there was an attempt to abduct
NeSSI uh oh, yeah, I know these ours, man, those aliens
need to lay off NeSSI I know. Well. Back in April twenty ninth,
a gentleman named Alan Betts was vacationing in the Scottish Highlands with his wife
and they took a picture. And in this picture you'll find online you'll see
this picture. It's a great image of it looks like a double double UFO.
I don't you know, it's possibly it's some type of lens issue,
but I don't think so, because it's such a distance and when it's blown
up, it's very it's very accurate as far as the distinction of these two
vessels side by side, of some type of craft or something, and the
guy that took the picture is actually rather skeptical about any of this stuff.
But anyway, I think it's a great picture. I hope you take a
look at it. And I wanted to know have you looked at it and
what do you think about that? I have looked at it. I saw
the story last week. I would think it as a UK paper that had
written about it, and I guess it's like a company kind of like the
ap crick Caters News that sent this out to different news sources. And I
thought the picture is really interesting. And then then Lee Spikle wrote about it.
I was talking with him about the Hufting wrote about it on the Hufting
posts. I knew he would do more interviews, so I wanted to see
what he wrote. And yeah, this guy's skeptical. I don't know.
You know, it's it looks like there is rain off in the distance,
so I thought maybe it's a couple of rain drops that are reflecting. But
what's strange about that is it's two objects or reflections and they look exactly the
same, So that would be weird if it was a rain drop. So
yeah, I'm really scratching my head. This is really hard to figure this
one out. But yeah, but this isn't one that Open Minds has written
about. Uh oh sorry, well, well you can see another thing on.
You can see like highlights and shadowing, and they're true. The thing
about it is there exact doubles, like maybe it's a double double Mint,
Alien twins or something, remember the double Mint. Oh yeah, that's right,
Yeah it could be. But anyway, it's they have these little necks
like almost like the NeSSI next sticking out of them. Yeah. Oh that's
true. They kind of have this appendage that seems to come out of it.
Almost as a matter of fact, I like, yeah, if they
were down in the water, they could look like two Nessi's yeah, you're
right, that's what is. Maybe Nassy's taking off right there. Maybe Nassi
is a UFO. That's what I'm thinking. Yeah, that's interesting. So
this is weird, but you're right, it is an interesting picture. We
did have it in our headlines last week, so people know. And hopefully
I'll have a story up about this before this radio show goes online. If
not, I'll have one up by tomorrow. So just check back on Openminds
Dot TV. But you're right. I agree with you, Martin. I
cannot come up with an explanation for this one, so I just gave you
do pressure for writing a story. Yeah, you know, I keep busy
letting the public know what's going on in this field. You know. The
other thing, too, is I haven't seen anybody coming up with a great
idea other than a possible reflection. One person said maybe some sort of debris
on the lend, which I suppose is possible. I haven't seen anything like
this in particular before, but I guess that's possible. But really interesting stuff
it is. No, I don't think that's a good answer anyway. Yeah,
A lot ness is so beautiful too, man, I would really love
to lilit that place one day. It does seem to ring quite a bit,
but yeah, it's beautiful, and I guess it has a castle near
the water. And that's what my next story is relating to Roger Marsh,
who is a director of communications for move On. Of course writes for Open
Minds, and this is just an non move On story he wrote for us.
That's really interesting and I was near this place because this place is near
Cosmo, Mexico. However, we just didn't have the time to get there.
And this is the Castle Ruins at Tuloom in Mexico. Really cool ruins
that are right on the edge of the beach there. However, there's been
a couple UFO sightings there and most recently someone posted a video. Again,
it's possible that what this person posted is some sort of lens reflection of the
sun, but the video is really weird and I haven't seen a reflection like
it. You see kind of this white object in the middle, it kind
of splits into two and everything happens in a split second. So it's a
really interesting video. Then Roger posted a second video to show that you know,
this area has a you know, they've UFO sightings there before, and
he posted one from July twenty thirteen of something strange in the air. So
a couple of really interesting videos. I'm not sure if you've got a chance
to look at those. I have to say that I did not. I'm
sorry. I've been just absolutely swamped, So sorry about that. So yeah,
I'm not going to give me a mack word. No, no,
no, that's that's the cool thing about this. You know, we don't
always have looked at the we don't always know what we're going to talk about.
That's right. I have absolutely no idea today. Yeah, so it's
fun that way. But another story that Roger wrote, which is a moofon
story, is this. This is a neat one. You probably haven't heard
of this one either, which is fine. I'm gonna tell you about it
and you can get really excited and tell me how excited you are about it
in just a minute or not. But this is kind of neat and that
I don't know. Are you into ghost hunting it on? Well, let's
just put it this way. I had an unexplainable experience. I'm not gonna
call a ghost, but wow, it really has has fascinated me to wonder
what the heck it was? How long ago did this take place? And
are you willing to share that experience? I'd say about twelve years ago.
You really want me to share that? On? Yeah? That would be
really cool? You really do? Yeah? I do? Oh wow.
Well, I've never never done this in a public venue, but I've been
in the antiques and fine arts business forever and I was it was a slow
winter one year and I was, you know, taking items antiques out of
a house for an auction, and I told the lawyer, I said,
hey, if you need someone to clean it out, it's a slow time
for me. I'll get my crew over here and we'll clean it out through
everything away that you know, not nonsaleable. So he said, yeah,
that's fine. So I went upstairs into a room and I was I had
to pull the door open across the carpet. It was really the door.
The carpet had been put in and they didn't trim the bottom of the door,
so I had to yank the door just to get it open. So
and all the windows were closed in the room and everything. So I put
like the stuff out of the closet into a garbage bag and I carried the
garbage bag out into the hallway to set it down. And when I did,
the closet door slammed shut. I mean it slammed hard. And I
went back in. I'm looking at the windows or closed, and then I
pulled on the door and I realized that it couldn't have happened. What happened
just couldn't have happened. And then there was a broom on the stairs and
it went down the stairs and the front door slammed. I went down the
stairs and the broom was leaning up against the door, and things like this
were happening in the house. It was the thing that was really weird.
It wasn't an old house. It was like nineteen forties or something. You
think of all these old houses I've been in. And then the last thing
is I went to pick up something basket in the garage. It was the
last item, and a guy that was working for me started teasing me when
I was telling them what was happening, and you know, making ghost noises
and all that. So he left and there was only one item to throw
into the garbage trailer that was there, and it was a basket in the
middle of the floor, and I went to pick it up and it was
stuck on the floor. So I pulled it really hard and it broke in
half, half of it staying on the floor, half of it in my
hand, And then I walked over and I tapped the bottom half of it
with my toes my shoe, and it moved. It wasn't even stuck to
anything. I don't understand. I don't understand what was happening, but I
got the hell out of there. That is really weird. That's some weird
staff. And you know, I was excited to ask you about this because
I know you're in the antique business and you've done this sort of thing,
so how strange. It's really weird. The reason I asked, thank you
so much for sharing that story. I think that's really interesting. I'm very
fascinated by ghost stuff and I have done ghost hunts before. Unfortunately I've never
seen anything, and I put myself like it, I'll go somewhere in the
dark that's supposed to be, you know, where all this craziness happens,
and I get kind of fearless because at some point, when you start looking
for something and you don't see something, then you're kind of like you want
to put yourself in those situations. So I haven't had any of my own
experiences. But this is kind of a neat story that was supposed to by
Roger March. It's a move on UFO story. And what happened is it
was about it was almost one am on May twenty fifth, when this man
and his daughter felt that they were being watched. They felt something strange,
so they started to look around, and so they went to this cemetery nearby,
as I thought, well, maybe there's a ghost out there. We'll
go do some ghost setting because it feels like a weird presence. When they're
out there, they see a shooting star, then they see another one,
and then they noticed these bright lights, these two large bright lights that began
moving closer and closer to them at a very slow pace. When it got
close enough, they said, it looked like a giant black square that was
darked out in the sky with these these lights on them. It made no
sound whatsoever. Uh, it was, you know, not too far over
their heads, they felt, but it was difficult for them to tell.
But yeah, this really weird craft that flew straight overhead. Stayed for a
minute and then it just kind of they get slowed down and and then it
sped up, but not like other stories where they speed off at a great
speed. It just sped up to at a slow pace, just kind of
hovered away until they lost sight of it. Wow, weird. This is
a basic square now I've heard of. Actually, one of my friends that's
actually on the Antiques Roadshow saw a UFO that had lights on it that was
perfectly square. Really, Yeah, you never really hear about that. So
This is like the second or third time I've ever heard of anything like that.
Yeah, a perfect square is really rare. Rectangles aren't as rare,
but you're right, square shape is is just kind of odd. So that's
interesting. And this guy's on the road show. He's on the antiqu store
show. He won't give you know, he said, I could never use
his name, but it was quite an amazing sighting because the thing burst into
five lights and was and was chased by a jet. He saw the whole
thing with a bunch of college baes. Wow, what's his name? And
so I asked him, I'm not gonna taste, he asked me. I
mean, I asked him. I said, did that change your life?
He said, I could care less. And I'm not making that up.
I mean, wow, you have to know the guy, you'd understand.
But yeah, but it's strange, strange, and you know they can't be
very aerodynamic, those square things. Yeah, really weird. Yeah, I
know I watch antiques rochhow so if you told me who it was, i'd
probably know. But yeah, that's so interesting. Thanks, And no,
it's good. You know, you shouldn't give away anonymous witnesses information. It's
a journalistic integrity thing, a researcher integrity thing. But you do, I
know you're aware of this story. Uh, this is kind of neat because
last week we talked about this coolnet interactive UFO map that this guy came up
with, a data scientist with where you could click on the map and it'll
show you all these sightings and how he was particularly interested in mass UFO sidings.
Really cool map. Well, what's interesting is now there's another group of
data specialists who came up with another UFO map. It's kind of like these
data and survey companies love to use UFOs to kind of demonstrate what they do.
Now this map is not interactive, but it has some really interesting information.
They show sightings per capita, so like where sidings are happening the most,
and it demonstrates, you know, just like our maps that we've made
here at open Minds and others at the Southwest, you know, has a
lot of UFO sidings. Excuse me, but they also look at other things
like the time of year that UFO sidings happen and the shapes, and they
track shapes over a long period of time, so they show and I thought
this was kind of neat that lights or fireballs or flashes they kind of glimped
into one group has increased over the years, so have circular At least lately,
circular sightings. Triangle sidings have kind of been consistent. However, disc
UFO sidings, what we typically think of as a UFO has tapered off and
has decreased quite a bit over the years, which is interesting. Yeah,
really interesting. And as far as when these things happen, they noticed that
around nine ten PM is a time of day that most sightings happen. In
July in the midsummers is the time of year that most UFO sidings happened.
So really interesting data that's shared on this map. People had to check these
out because they're really cool looking too. It was a company called IDV Solutions
that put up this story and on what's called a ux blog where they kind
of highlight their data savviness. So it's really cool. People should check this
out. And you know, Huffington Post love Li Spiegel and my friends over
a Huffington Posts, but I gotta you know, I gotta criticize when these
news places because I hate it when they don't do their due diligence around UFO
stories because they often feel they don't. Huffington Post UK posted these maps and
totally got everything wrong. They didn't give credit to who created the maps.
They said new for It created the maps the National UFO Reporting Center, but
it was just that that's the data they took. So that's unfortunate. But
we've got all the links to the guys who should get the credit for these
stories on our story. But yeah, here again they used National UFO Reporting
Center data instead of mof on info. And I asked the guy who made
the map last week, even though I thought I knew why, you know
why that was the case. And it's sort of the case of having too
much technology technology kind of hurting you here. Whereas mofon has this great database
that houses all of the sightings and you can do queries on this database,
but it's limited because it is this big database with all of these sightings.
Whereas newfork is a one man show and Peter Davenport kind of posts what looks
like a spreadsheet, kind of an Excel spreadsheet of all the sightings, so
it's easy for a data person to go in copy and paste new Fork data,
put it into an Excel and then create all of these graphs and everything,
whereas you can't go and do a query of all the sightings from mofon
yet so that you could do the same thing with their data. So in
fact, when I do my maps, I have to save the data from
the monthly reports that come out in order to put together the maps that I'd
usually do at the beginning of the year, but really cool maps. So
that's why they're using new fork data. If people were wondering and not move
on. But mofon is working on their database to morek make it more friendly
for the media who are trying to put together these sort of things, but
really cool stuff. Did you see the new latest map. Yes, I've
looked at over and you know one of the one of the objects is unknown
changing. I thought that was interesting, like a changing object, because you
do hear of that every now and then, sure something changes, And yeah,
it's kind of sad they'd beloved Lost in Space disc the flying saucer we're
all familiar with from way back, is really kind of fading out to newer
models. Perhaps I'm not really sure, but you know, you hear about
triangles more often now as far as just in general conversation. But the circle
sphere I made me wonder, you know, how many people are confusing say
the Chinese lanterns, you know, that type of thing, but this these
spears or the orbs or whatever you want to say, or certainly on the
rise, that's for sure. I think I agree with you one hundred percent
that Chinese lanterns, satellites. You know, this data goes back to nineteen
oh five, so as you know, the prevalence of Chinese lanterns and satellites
and things like this has increased. I think that's probably one of the reasons
those sort of sightings have increased. But you know, a testament probably to
the anomalous nature of the triangular craft. They've remained pretty consistent over the years,
even though we hear more about them now. They've as you know,
David Marler, who I think you've had on the show your show as well,
who wrote the book about UFO triangles, like he says, it's not
a recent phenomenon. This is something that's been reported for for many, many
years, he says, back even into the late eighteen hundreds. That's right.
I have to say this, I don't really say this much, but
David Marler was one of my favorite guests. He is just so well balanced
and I really like his approach to things. Yeah, that's funny you say
that because I'm a big David Marler fan too. I think his book is
great. It's such a breath of fresh air because he was so careful.
He's so fact based, no bias, just research to put this together to
kind of figure out what's going on here. And yeah, I agree,
David Marler is great. He is the Triangle UFO guy. To me,
he's the authority. Oh, I agree, I agree. All right,
Well that's all the news I wanted to cover. Was there anything else you
wanted to mention? No, I'm pretty much newsed out there. Yeah,
so it's a lot of news it is. Well, thanks so much for
joining us again on the news, Martin. Of course, Martin's got podcast
UFO you can check out on a weekly basis as well. So until then,
we will talk to you next week, Martin. You bet, and
I want to thank you. You know, I getting a lot of a
lot of your listeners are coming over my listeners. No, that's great because
it's fun because you know, uh, the more the Merry are. That's
what's cool about podcasters. It's people who listen to podcasts, usually at work,
and they have hours to fill, so they've got capacity to you know,
listen to many podcasts. So if you're going to listen to another podcast
than an arts, you've got to listen to Martin's is what I say.
That's right. And we are safe for work. You're what. We're safe
for work, that's right. We don't get lude or nasty at all,
not yet. We save that for off the air. That's right. So
let's go off the air and talk some some dirty talk. All right,
All right, sounds good. But first let me introduce our interview. Let's
go ahead and talk with Rob Mercer. I am very happy to have with
me. Rob Mercer, Hello, how you doing doing pretty well? So
among other things you do, you're you're with move one out there. Yep.
I'm a state section director and field investigator. Uh huh. I'm located
over close to Dayton in that area. Oh okay, exciting. That's what
makes this a you know, the location so important. So let's get into
this actually first, before we get into the blue book files and everything,
I would like to talk about your background, and what got you interested in
this field? Okay, Well, I had an uncle when I was younger.
He had a sighting, uh saw light following him home from work one
night, and it told me about it. But anyway, he came out
to the house and got me, and you know, obviously seven years old,
he just got me into it mm hm. And you know, as
long as he was alive, me and him, that's all we talked about.
You know, watched all the shows, always watching the sky, stargazing.
You know, he had a telescope, always bringing it out to my
house, things like that at and I just kind of kept on going with
it, and eventually you became a move on field investigator. I did about
about two and a half years ago, as my daughter started getting older and
wanted to do her own thing. I just needed a hobby more than just
reading about it. So I was listening to I believe it was Coast to
Coast one night and they had somebody on their saying that they could always use
field investigators. So I looked into it and you know, got the manual
and took the test and it's very informative and I've been having fun with it
ever since now. Have you had a sighting of your own? Actually,
the only sighting I have ever had was the July fifth of last year,
sitting in my backyard here and seeing a bright light coming from the southwest direction,
which is opposite of where you usually see the planes coming in headed for
Right Patterson or We've got an air National Guard base here in Springfield. It
was it was just like a bright headlight, just a single bright light,
and me and my wife and daughter out in the yard. We have a
drive in screen we sit out there and watch, so I was watching it.
As it entered my airspace over my yard. The light just shut off
completely, and when it did, there was no other lights on. I
was able to focus on it, and it was a triangle shape. I
can only see the front end of it. It was very big and if
silent, about one hundred and fifty feet in the air, just floating over
my house. Now that's a good distance from the back door. I've got
one of those laser pointers used for stargazs and pointing out stars, and normally
it's in my pocket when I'm outside, but this particular night it wasn't,
and I wanted it. I ran in the house to get it just to
shine on the bottom, and by the time I got out, I could
not my eyes would not focus enough to find it again. Yeah, but
that's as far as sightings, that's the only one I've had myself. That's
pretty cool, that's pretty interesting, that craft. I mean, what is
your sense of what that was? Of course, when it comes to these
triangular crafters, I did a debate and some people think there ares you know,
some sort of secret black project. Some think they're there otherworldly. What
what is your sense if I had to guess, or probably ours? M
h. I mean, I mean, I just there's so many. There's
just so many of them out there. And I've had guys and you know
cases here in Ohio where people have seen them in the daylight and gotten good
descriptions, you know, the back ends of them and everything. And when
they draw them for me, they sure look like stuff you've seen in our
military, just you know a little different, but the same the same formula
mm hm. And what about the cases you've investigated, have you had some
pretty interesting ones? I've had a few. I've had a few. They
I mean a lot of them are just you know, lights in the sky,
but I'd say probably a third of them. Are the triangles really a
lot of them, yep. And I had an interesting one here a little
northeast of my area last summer up in Champagne County. A gentleman is seen
in hexagon shape land in the middle hit well. He had He lived out
in the middle of nowhere, in all farmland. He was letting his dog
out and seeing what looked like search lights in the distance aimed upward, two
of them aimed in different directions, and knowing where he lives and knowing what's
in that direction, he couldn't possibly fathom what it would have been. And
it was, you know, late at night, around midnight. He got
in his car and decided to drive down there just to look at it.
As he got there, they disappeared. But then he had seen red and
white lights flashing on the road up in front of him, most mainly white,
a little bit of a red to it, and he assumed he was
coming up on an accident, so he rolled his winded down to slow down.
There was nowhere to turn around on this country road, and as he
came up on it, it lifted up off the ground. It was it
was just an intense light. I mean there was a craft a shape to
it, but it was so intense he couldn't make out the shape perfectly,
roughly thirty feet wide. He said, it lifted straight up. It was
in an area surrounded by power lines and trees. It lifted straight up and
went over some trees, and the road kind of took a dog leg,
and he followed it to go down and turn around, and next thing you
know, he was under the craft again. Just the way the road was
had wind around, and he still couldn't get a good look at it because
of the lights, but he went under it for a couple of minutes and
it turned to the left and shot out over a cornfield. It was about
ten days before he discovered Muffon, so it was late for me to get
to the scene. But when we did get there, the grass in the
area it was pushed down a little bit. We had a lot of rain.
Oh, so you couldn't say for sure, but he was a very
credible guy, very convinced of what he saw. Older gentlemen had no reason
to make anything like that up. He was told by He called right Patterson
himself and they told him he probably seen a remote control and he you know,
he's had a garage full of remote control airplanes and helicopters. He knew
that's not what it was. They told him it might have been a you
know, a medical flight, which those things don't land in trees and they're
out in the middle of a field, if anything. But what intrigued me
about it was he said that if he had to give it a shape,
it looked like a hexagon shape in a Moufon's database. That's not even really
a choice when you're looking for the shape of an object. Which and then
you know, we always go to the National UFO Reporting Center and see if
they had any correlating cases, and that particular day, about twenty miles away,
they did have somebody see a hexagon shape craft. Really the lights were
different, I mean different color. They were more of a blue light.
It was early in the morning, probably about fifteen hours before, but a
guy had seen one, followed it for about twenty minutes down the highway.
It was over him. He said, of course, on there, you
can't really do anything. They don't. They just report it, they don't
investigate it. So but it kind of matched up. I just thought that
was odd that shape. Two people had seen that shape in the same day.
I found it interesting. Yeah. What's really interesting too, is at
least you know, I'm thinking back when I used to do move on field
investigations and to get your sense to this. You know, it reminds me
of the very credible cases that I felt, you know, I investigated.
But often they're anecdotal. And that's I guess what's frustrating about this field is
so much of the best step is purely anecdotal. It is it is,
I mean you sometimes yeah, well, the witnesses, they don't always like
your what's your your classification comes up as what they've seen. But it's it
can be tough, especially in this day of drones and everything too. It's
hard to pick them out. But that leads to where I why I started
my little website over here in group. When I was I would go into
the National UFO Reporting Center and look for uh or you know, mofin look
for correlating I live in Springfield, Ohio, and I was never getting cases
from my area. And I mean, we've got a population of about seventy
thousand here. You think you get some And I'd always see them on the
national UFO Reporting Center. So I just kind of started that Miami Valley UFO.
It's Miami Valley's this general area of Ohio. Miami River Valley passes through
here, just to give it a local name that maybe somebody might catch on
to and start giving reports. Now, if you go to my site and
report, it takes you to move on, right, I don't I'm busy
enough with move on. I don't want any other things like that to deal
with. But it's just trying to get people to report them over here my
area. And even still in two and a half years, I've only had
three from this town, which seems odd because I've done the little bit of
searching in the blue Book files as far as Ohio sightings, and in the
whole twenty one years of Blue Book in Ohio there was like eleven hundred and
four I'm estimating estimating here sightings reported, and roughly seven hundred of them were
from the Dayton area out of all bl So, I mean it used to
get a lot of them, but back in the sixties, mainly in the
sixties. Yeah. Interesting, well, and it's a very big deal,
especially relating to Project blue Book that you're in the near Dayton, Ohio.
And you know, maybe you could tell us why for people who aren't aware.
Yeah, I U blue Book was operated out the right pad here for
nineteen forty seven to sixty nine, late sixty nine. And I'm a plumber
by trade, and for years I worked over in Dayton for about fifteen years,
going in people's houses working, and I would always see, you know,
people have collections. It's surprised how many people were into the subject,
you know, and I talked talked to them here and there. That got
me to just I've for years, I've always he's looked on Craigslist for UFO
stuff. Every few days I type it in if I'm thinking about it.
Never find anything. Even then, I was just expecting to find, you
know, Grand Paul's UFO books that they somebody was going to throw out things
like that. But on one particular day, it was September in two thousand
thirteen, I was up late watching the news and I decided I had been
a few days out of check it. An ad popped up. They said
that a gentleman was selling blue Book files that belonged to a captain at Project
blue Book. He had found out under a box of pile of lumber in
a box at a broad seale. So I was pretty excited. It was
one of them spit out your drink moments when I saw that, So I
you know, first thing, you know, you think that's too good to
be true. So here kind of looking for news stores of people getting taken
by things like that, I didn't see anything. I seen him a message.
It was. It was pretty late at night, ask him if he
still had him, and I had a hard time going to sleep because you
know that's something I can't get you a little bit excited, I would have
the exact same reaction I would be. I would, I understand, I'd
be very excited. I was. So I got up, you know,
work the next day, and he finally texted me about noon the next day
and said he still had him. Nobody had showed any interest in him.
He had just had him on there for a day. So I talked him
into holding them for me till I got off of work that afternoon and drove
down there. He lived on the south end of Dayton more or less.
And the ad is what you know, what he said is he told me
the story. It matched the ad where he got it so I went ahead
and purchased and purchased it from him. It was just a single box.
It had case listings of all the cases from sixty forty seven to sixty nine,
nothing redacted in him. There was miscellaneous files and folders, a clip
from Lean, Illinois in nineteen sixty seven. I believe it was the Officer
Fisher case, a bunch of slides and just a bunch of like press releases,
documents in her office, memos, that kind of thing. So as
soon as I got in my car, I made sure I screenshot on my
phone that ad, mainly to cover myself in case they had been gotten illegally.
And that was it. I drove on home, you know, excited
as heck, and and instantly got into looking into him, and he like
said he had bought it was an auction. He had bought a pile of
lumber, and those that was in the pile of lumbers. How weird,
I know. So I got in there and got to looking at the names
inside of it, and then one name in particular came up, and it
was a lieutenant that worked there. He was on a lot of the documents.
They were late sixties, most of them there's stuff all the way back
to the forties, but most of them are late sixties. So I started
with his name, trying to find out where he lived and back in the
up until two thousand and well, he still lived in Fairborne area, Dayton
Fairborn, That's where right Pat's at, and he had moved here and there,
but he had sold a house early into two thousands. It changed names
and they had moved. Well, I got to looking at that particular house
that he had sold, and there was an auction there a few months before
at that point, so you know, it was kind of fitting together.
I was hoping I was on the right track. So I drove down there.
It's about twenty minute drive for me down there, and then found that
house and it was actually a two story garage, well a garage, you
know, an attic upstairs. That's a good place for things to get lost
over time. So I was pretty convinced I had the right guy. You
know, it was on the right path. So then it came before I
really wanted to. I called some of my friends from Mufon and they came
over a couple local guys here and we spent about eight hours on that Saturday
looking through them trying to figure out what they were. We could tell that
the lieutenant he was a lieutenant with a Air Force. He gave briefings on
the subject for the Air Force. Yeah, he had there were slides in
there, things he'd pass out for people to look at, chartistics, statistics
on the slides. There was a cartoon collection from that. They from the
whole program. I mean there were him all the way back into the early
fifties, cartoons, comics where they just collect them. They doodle on some
of them. But we couldn't really we didn't find much. There was nothing
in there that was none classified. And we just come to the conclusion,
well, he must have worked, you know, worked for him and just
gave briefings. That was his job, right. So I sat on him
for about six months trying to get up the nerve to approach him, to
ask him about him. I didn't want to get him in trouble for sharing
him, but I also didn't want to take him from me. Yeah.
So another buddy of mine here and move on. His name's Pete Harninger.
He was a former Air National Guard. We got to talk and and he
said, you know, I got a military background. Maybe I could call
him and break the ice. So he went ahead and place to call to
him. We'd found, as you know, where he had currently moved.
I actually did a drive by on it a few times, trying to hope
and i'd catch hi Mount Mow and Grass or something to out of way to
approach him. I didn't want to scare him off. Well, he'd like
I said. He called his house and his wife said they had divorced a
few years before, that's why they'd moved and split up and everything. But
she felt free to give us his phone number. He lived out of state.
Pete went ahead and gave him a call, and then called me a
few minutes later and said that the lieutenant wants you to give him a call
talk to you about that stuff. Of course, I was a bit afraid
to call him. I didn't know what was going to happen as far as
losing it. Yeah, So I called and explained to him, you know
how where I got him. And he was surprised that he left him behind
when he moved out. He didn't have a problem with me having him good.
He just said, I, you know, I moved out basically when
the program shut down. He was a he was, I'll go ahead and
say his name, because he said he didn't care if I say his name.
It's a Lieutenant Carmen Morano. He was there from sixty seven to sixty
nine. He was the office are there with Quintinella when they was cleaning out
when Blue Books shut down. You know, they classified all the cases,
sent them to or unclassified them all, sent them down to Maxwell Air Force
Base. And a lot of this stuff that I have was stuff a lot
of the case files with the press came in and seen. They had books
set up for him to look a look at cases they'd all the time wanted
to look at check out cases. There was also all their textbooks and all
their tools for investigating cases. They had you know, books, page papers,
correspondences from signed companies, blimp companies, textbooks, lots of lots of
different books about UFOs. Even they even had novels. Novel from Frank Strangers
was in there, actually the UFO magazines. Basically, it was things that
were in the desk that were for the trash and he took them home.
He thought, he thought, now I'll just take us home, keep them.
They might be worth something someday well, after talking to me for a
couple hours, we talked several hours at night on the phone about UFOs.
He said, you know, you sound pretty interested in that. He said,
I've got three or four more boxes up where I stay in the summer.
If you want them, I can send them to you. Wow.
I was like, are you serious? He said yeah. Yeah. I
said, well, i'll pay you for him. He said no, he
said, I they're just going to get thrown out one of these days.
So he gave me his phone number up Aaron told me call him in a
month, So I gave him two months. I didn't want to pastor him
too much and called him and he said, well, let me go through
them and get the trash out and I'll send them to you. I said,
well, you know, leave the trash in there, that's the good
stuff. I mean, I even take a pencil. I don't care anything
like that. So he went ahead and boxed it up. Came in three
huge boxes. I mean he spent probably sixty dollars sending them to me,
sixty seventy dollars, and they were just full of loose file papers. The
whole Sacoro case was in there, A lot of there were some cases that
were actually organized in folders, but there were a lot of loose documents basically
like if you were cleaning out your desk, Yeah, disks when something shut
down, you know, just throwing it in the box to make its way
to the dumpster. And I mean that's kind of how it was. It
looked like the deck had been cut several times. It took me a good
six months to sort and through it to get it some sort of organization.
But as I got it, I mean, it was good. There was
a The CORO file itself was two hundred pages long. Wow. There were
like twelve pictures from the scene. I haven't I'm pretty sure they were taking
Saturday, the day after the crash. I've had another guy tell me he
thinks it was Sunday, but they're very clear first generation pictures. You can
see the burnt bushes. I mean, you can see a lot of them
on the National Archives website. But there's a lot of neat things in them.
There were more films in there. A copy of the Treatment in Utah
film from fifty two was in there, more slides. There are some sound
tapes from different cases over the years, and different radio programs with a general
Attacker on Aaron Keiho. There was an interview from nineteen sixty eight with the
Morgantown, West Virginia Police Department about siding, which the lieutenant told me it
was actually his favorite sighting when he was there. Really, so it was
on for satellite enter in the atmosphere and then there was you know a lot
of little things like that in there. I can give you a little more
detail on pretty amazing. I mean, what's great about this and why it's
so exciting for me, especially as I've spent a lot of time going through
the blue Book files writing stories on them, and what's always frustrating and difficult
and they don't not just difficult for me, but also for all media is
the images are typically photo copies of pictures and they're terrible. I mean,
the quality is awful and so there, and there's all this supplementary material referenced
but not included in those files. And that's what's exciting because on your website,
Miami VALLEYUFO Society dot com, you've got a lot of pictures here of
you know, some of this stuff in there, and you've got the actual
pictures where you can make out these things, see what they look like.
Just some really fascinating things. One of the incredible things that really blows me
away that you have looks like two of and I would just love to see
one of these is this famous Introductory to Space Physics. Oh uh, manual
from the Air Force. Maybe you can kind of explain that. Yeah,
I've got two of those, Volume one and two, I asked. I
asked him, lieutenant, because he was a physicist. I asked him,
I said, there, you know, were these would these involved with the
UFO program or would these have been something from your training before that? And
he said that he couldn't remember his he's object he couldn't remember. There is
in these books. Meant, there is a chapter about UFOs and one of
these thumbing through it right now, I can't remember exactly which one. Yeah,
those are nice textbooks. So and I'm also a NASA. I clicked
NASA items to have my whole life, And I mean they're just a when
you see them, they're they're pretty interesting. But there is volume one and
volume two. There are those, and what it says about you go ahead,
I was gonna say, And what that book says about UFOs is pretty
weird, right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, what's it saying? Boy,
I don't have the page saved here. There's a chapter in the back
though that he does give it a mention. Now there is. I had
a friend of mine was asking about the same book, and there's another volume
that gives a little bit more of a mention than what this one does.
Trying to remember which one of these that is, and going through this stuff
for the last year between that, I haven't had a lot of time to
actually enjoy reading everything. I've kind of organizing and scanning. It's taken up
a lot of my time. Let me locate that page here though. Now,
could I tell you a little bit about the lieutenant while we're sitting here?
Oh, definitely, for sure. It would get great. Give me
a meant to find a page. He was when he went into the Air
Force and was assigned a Project Blue Book. He went in a fan of
science fiction. He grew up his whole life a fan of science fiction.
And you know, he told me that he was going to prove they were
real when he was there, but when he had left after two years,
he was basically he tells me any waves convinced that they don't waste their time
coming here. He knows they're out there, I mean, he and for
that reason. And if you look at a lot of the Blue Book photos,
I mean, there is a lot of hoax as people sent him.
And with the short staff that they had, and he was investigator at one
time, you know how much work goes into it. In the amount of
cases they had, you can see where a person will get burnt out on
the subject. Yeah, I've talked to Bob Friend, who was in charge
of Bluebook for a period of time, really nice older gentlemen, and you
know, he wanted to express The big thing he wanted to express is that
we genuinely looked into the cases and we did it better than he says he
thinks anybody is doing it these days, or they were. They took them
all very seriously, they were very careful. But still he's adamant that they
never found any that they found to be, you know, that mysterious.
He feels they were able to explain away pretty much all of the cases.
So and he seems like a very honest, genuine person. And I've heard
the same sentiments from many of these Blue Book guys. Well that's the same
thing I'm getting from Morano. He and I have no reason to not believe
him. I mean, he's he sounds genuine. He well, I've even
asked him. You know, we I've always heard that all the good cases
in Blue you guys were kind of a front. The good cases went over
you to another organization. And he said when he was there, he never
thought that. But he also said, knowing what he knows about the government,
now anything's possible. Yeah. But the same line though, And you
can see, I mean I have to stick up for him just by looking
at the paperwork I have. They did put at least the workers put a
lot of effort into it trying to solve what they were. Yeah, and
we do have at least one memo out there. I think it's called the
bowling Ger memo that does say that there were cases that the cases that were
more significant to national security were not included in Blue Book. So who knows
there could be you know, of course a lot of people are certain,
but it's certainly possible there were the best cases went somewhere else. Yeah,
And that's like I said, he never seen any of that. He and
he give me some insights on a few cases that he could remember, but
when he left there in sixty nine, he never even thought about UFOs after
that, you know. And I've tried to get him to get back into
the subject a little bit. He likes hearing about some of my mouf on
cases, the newer stuff. Man interesting. I don't give him details,
but we just you know, just talk about him a little bit. And
he's actually even though he never went out on the scene when he was in
Blue Book, he was stuck at the office all the time, even if
he wanted to. They wouldn't let him go out. He told me he
would take and he had. He would tell me about investigation, what I
should look for when I go out, different things like that. So it's
kind of been interesting from a historic aspect. Just you know, I'm a
history buff too, and just talking to somebody like that that was in the
field so long ago. M hm. It's very interesting. Now. I
found the page on het in this book. It was actually chapter twenty four
here, and it's just one page about unidentified flying objects, and it references
several books, but it says you want me to read it to you?
Sure, Okay. Since throughout this book the authors have tried to present a
basic picture of environment of space, and doing so, they present data and
elementary physics behind some important phenomena. However, since theories which describe space phenomena
or open to rapid change, the authors have avoid emphasizing a particular model unless
this model has substantial experimental data supporting it. For this reason, the chapter
will not attempt to explain unidentified flying objects. Then it just goes on to
tell about the stir that was caused after World War Two, but it takes
the time to mention it. But I've had somebody tell me that there's another
volume out there that's similar that has it in it. Yeah, there is
a volume that is uh out there. I haven't seen it an actual copy
of it, but that's supposedly that. Well that you know, I've got
the text and you can find the text online where it goes into more speculation
about what they might be and everything. Yeah, somebody seen that all my
sight and got a hold of me as soon as they've seen them, told
me to find that page and yeah, look at it. Yeah exciting.
Well, one of the other things that you see on here that's really interesting
is the Skorro stuff. I really love and it seems like you love it
too, because you have it up in your header. There this photo you
got of like a mock up. Yeah, there was nine of those in
there, m M and two negatives for it. They were just paper clipped
together in the back of only one of them. The back said mockup of
Sikoro MM. I asked the lieutenant. Of course it was before his time.
Was Koro was there? When he got there, he put all the
files together, he organized them. They were a mess for the press when
they came in. Actually, I guess he told me a lot of them
were a mess and it was part of his job to organize them. So
I thought, well, maybe he'll have a little insight to why that what
that picture is? Who made it? It was an air force made?
Was it somebody you know down in Scorro, somebody making their backyard up here?
He had no idea. He said that David Moody put that file together
for the press and everything in it, so he could not give me any
point put to that one. So that's why I like to put it out
there just for maybe somebody will say, you know, my grandma made that,
or I showed it to Ray Stanford. He was adamant, you know
that he didn't care for it too much because it it was really wasn't accurate
as far as Lonnie running where he was running, the train, the color
of everything. But I mean it's just a mock up except that like that,
it's still interesting though with the I just wish I knew who made it.
I love it. I can see knowing the case. You know what
Stanford is talking about. How you know, the details aren't necessarily correct,
but it's a representation and it's so well done and so fun and so for
listeners. You know, you could see this at Miami Valley UFO Society.
I'll probably maybe put it on the scroll on blog talk. But it's like
a model car and a little kind of like army man representing Lonnie Zamora the
police officer. And I guess for maybe you can explain kind of with the
Sikoro case for those who aren't familiar. Yeah, and in nineteen sixty four,
late April nineteen sixty four and score in New Mexico, which is,
you know, a little bit south Albuquerque. I've been out there myself.
I think it's about half hour south of Albuquerque. He was a Lonnie was
on patrol and gave chase to a couple what he thought of teenagers in the
car speed and he went after him and off in the distance, he saw
a bright light that looked like an explosion. So he pulled away from his
chase and went up to investigate and came up on the scene and he saw
a craft sitting sitting on the from what I understand, the relatively flat area.
But he saw a craft sitting in a distance, and he saw two
beams around it and he had made his was working his way to it when
it take on taken off, and he kind of dove out of the way
when he heard the explosion, didn't run like that. The craft lifted off,
took off to the I believe it was the west, and disappeared.
And right afterwards, you know, police officers on the scene. One guy
was taking pictures which nobody has ever been able to found on the police officers.
He uh, and that's kind of what that case is right there.
And so you have pictures like this mock up, which, like you said,
you know, this is like a hilly terrain, whereas the case really
took placed on flat terrain. But it's still a really fun mock up.
And then you do have some images of the ground because Lonnie Zamora had said
there were marks from where the craft had landed and some burnt ground and bushes
around. Yeah, and I found these. These images can be found online
and international archives. Not as good a quality as the ones I have,
but they have. If you look at them, you can see the burn
marks on the on the bushes on the I don't I'm not sure what all
I have on there, but I do have some of the show the burn
marks, and I put a video together that's on there. I made a
video to accompany this stuff, to show I take these around the libraries and
show people from time to time. And I wanted to make a video for
people that didn't know anything about Blue Book to kind of show them how it
what it was all about. And if you go to the well, I'm
stoleing you, let me rephrase that, I'm editing that one. I found
some information that I want to put in my video. I haven't got to
finished change yet, but there's a I've got, I say, twelve pictures
from the scene from that day there are very clear and I actually showed him
to James Fox last weekend. He was at a symposium we had here in
Ohio, and he was very interested in him for his seven oh one movie.
Mm hmmm, because I would imagine they're clearer than what he's seen,
you know what he has. I know he's got a segment on that case
in the movie. I would say it's one of the big ones. And
he was really interested in that Scoro what Yeah, great case. I know.
Jay Allen Heineck, who was the astronomer who was a consultant to the
Air Force, said that was one of the cases that convinced him that there's
something to this phenomenon. He loved it, and there's rumor out there that
kington Nia also liked it. However, you have a video you posted where
he talks about the case, any kind of that? Oh now, The
lieutenants told me, he's like, you know, I've got one video almost
sticking here too, that it was in a desk drawer when he was cleaning
the doubt and nobody'd ever watched it. He said it was of Quentin Ella.
He had no idea of what was on it. And that's it that
you're talking about. In the bottom corner there. It's about fifty seconds long.
The quality, I didn't want to send it away to be transferred,
so I kind of have it done locally here by guy that probably could have
been better quality, and I could still have that done at some point,
but I wanted to keep my eye on it, so that's what I had.
The quality is not the greatest, but that is. It's nothing you've
not heard quint Nellis say about the case. But I believe that video is
unseen. It's a great video. I think the quality's fine for the period
of time. I bought a projector to projecting on my wall myself to try
to transfer it here, and that projector really got a hold of it.
Yeah, it was kind of scared me a little bit, so he got
a few jumps around there. That's why I eventually had to give in and
take it somewhere. But everywhere I took it one the Melle to Chicago and
here and there. I just was afraid to let it get away. Yeah,
but there also there was more in that case. As far as I
took that case, I've tried to take all these cases, but it'll take
me twenty years to do that. It's because there's so much information out there,
but I'm going on full three and comparing what I have with what's in
there to see if there's anything different in files. Nothing in any paperwork I
have is redacted at all, by the way, So I mean you can
see people's names and addresses in most cases. But I, for instance,
the Coro case, going page for page and on full three, I would
find pages that I had that they didn't have, and vice versa. I'd
find pages that sketches here and there, and pages that they had that I
didn't have. No rhyme or reason to why. But I was reached out
to Ben Moss from Muffon, Virginia because he was doing a store worry about
Scorro, looking for some things, and I wanted to tell him, you
know, about what I had here I'd read in the move On journal,
and he put me in touch with Ray Stanford, which I knew of Ray.
I didn't know much about him though, so I, you know,
was on this Internet checking him out and I'd see his sk his drawing interpretation
of the insignia that Lonnie seen on the side of that craft. Over the
years, there's been debate he used a decoy insignia so as to stop people
from saying they seen it, that didn't see it. And Rays looking at
his book, he's got the he had an inverted V with three lines through
it that he said was always the original symbol. Well, if you look
in the Blue Books files, you can't find it. Yeahcro it's not in
there. Well, I'm looking at that symbol, and I'm thinking, well,
I have seen that symbol somewhere before. So I'm going back through my
file, and sure enough, I found I've got like twelve pages of notes,
notes that we've determined had to have been taken from right Patterson, maybe
over the phone talking to somebody down there. And and you know, we've
not been able to determine whose handwriting it is, even though I kind of
think it's Quentin Allas, but I can't say for certain yet because the only
handwriting is that you can really find is his signature. And it's not enough
to go on. But I have about twelve pages of notes, and insignia
that Ray talked about all these years is in there. Twice they've drawn it
and wrote about it a little bit, basically saying what Ray says, But
it is in there. So he was real excited to hear about that.
A cool He's even I think put out a little newsletter showing people so oh
yeah, I've seen that where he talked about how they had decided to change
put out the correct one for that reason. Yeah. I read his his
thing he put out on that he's caught a lot of grief over the years
about it. That's, you know, well, people like to argue every
point. Oh yeah, but that's the only thing I can say is it's
they talk about it in these files, so they've drawn it. The Air
Force drew it. They mentioned it, you know, so interesting. Doesn't
say it was it, but yeah, it's in there. One thing to
note about these pictures, which is the other reason Dayton, Ohio was where
Blue Book was, is the pictures are titled Foreign Technology Division Air Force SC
which is I'm not sure what command, maybe you Services Command probably or something,
and it's your name. Over the years, used to be Air Material
Command, then they went to that Foreign Technology Division. But I've got documents
from both eras, mostly from the late obviously when lieutenant was there, but
there's a lot of in these like quentin Ella had to do a basically I
called an essay about UFOs. Another lieutenant that followed David Moody before Morano,
his name is David Marley. He also did an essay. It's like all
and there's a lot of paperwork like that in here, but you know,
then they've got a There was a file titled the or Caught for University of
Colorado. I believe it's everything they sent out there for the content report,
just in the history of UFOs they have, and a lot of things on
that video I've made have come from those pages I've read out of there.
That's where I got my script for it. So it's kind of geared towards
people don't know anything about blue Book. But there is a lot of things
in there like that, a lot of photos, a lot of good color
photos from different cases over the years. Another good one which I had just
been sharing with Shepherd Johnson, who you talked to about me. Oh yeah,
I should note that Shepherd was the one, yeah, who told me
about this stuff, and so yeah, fascinating me and him has been trading
a little bit of stuff back and forth, and he I sent him one.
It's a Homer New York case of April eleventh, nineteen sixty four where
a physical therapist and his family were eating up and saw a craft, saw
an object come down, break into different pieces, hover around, and the
gentleman's wife, they didn't have a camera, but she is sketched. Heinek
was really interested in the case. She's sketched sly drawings of it, and
you could find those out there and you know, black and white on the
internet. But there were seven collar glass slides in this mix from Matt So
that's that's also another one of the Project blue Book Unknowns and also has here
for a five year period. I guess sixty three to sixty eight what they
paid Heinech. Yeah. Yeah, there's a few of his contracts in there.
I've got some more that I've not even had a chance to scan in
yet. But his bills for making phone calls, for going different places,
visiting different people, Yeah, he would send them in like that. There
was a copy of one of his exams from University of Northwestern that he gave
out for astronomy. Just different lots of correspondences between him and other people that
I haven't been able to figure out what case they go to yet, So
I've just kind of got them put together in a binder. I've taken all
these files, probably ninety percent of them, and put them in binders with
you know, acid free sleeves, so when I take them places, people
can put their hands on them and look at them, look through them,
just to get I feel like the people of Ohio, I owe them a
chance to see it all before I put a do anything with it. Give
a chance to see the history from around here. The other books in this
collection though that I wouldn't couldn't touch on on the video. But I've got
a xerox copy of the incident at Exeter, and on top of him,
Heineke's written on air in ink, and then somebody in red ink has wrote
page numbers down and if you open it up there's tons of things highlighted.
I'm not sure of the significance of it, not nowhere near had time to
read it, but uh, i'd really like to see what all the nody
mm hmm. This is really cool. I was hesitant to ask you,
but you have it here on your photo of the Craigslist thing, Uh,
that he was asking one hundred dollars or best offer. Yep. That's a
pretty good deal. YEP. And I gave him what he was asking just
forgure. Yeah it's worth it. Yeah, I didn't want to. I
didn't try to low boy him. And yeah he took it. Now he
wouldn't the box that came in. It was some kind of basket. When
I say a box, it was some kind of basket. He wouldn't give
me that. He said his wife wanted to keep it. But the minute
I left his house and I said, I screenshot at then I came home.
I wanted to get a nice color picture of the screenshot on my computer.
By the time I got home, he had pulled that ad quick right,
have had that on there. But I'm working on putting the garage a
picture of the garage on their where I found it, and all that I've
got if I haven't already, I've got things like had a better display I'm
working on. But they had some other books that they had a lot of
scientific military books in here put out by the Air Force, like I'm looking
at one here called a Scientific Explanation for Flying Sorcers by Donald Robie, a
new theory on origins of comets. Lots of things on fireballs. Just it's
funny how many UFO books they had. Now I had I don't know if
you're familiar with an author named Chris Lambright out of Texas. Yeah, he
wrote wrote a decent book. Me and him was exchanging information and he was
telling me of an article in a True Story on Flying Sorcerers about Blue Book.
And as he was telling me about it, I got to thinking,
you know, there was magazines in the one of them boxes too, and
that was one of them, that particular article. And as I looked through
that article, it's from Oh, it's volume number one of the True Story
on Flying Saucers. Just about every picture in it is in the box.
I have the stuff I have here, So I believe this magazine came to
and looked through all this stuff and that's where they put their look together back
in the sixties, late sixties. But yeah, they had quite a bit
of things in here, films and everything. And if you I've got I've
had everything transferred digitally, Maleine, I've got a lot of them. Are
you can't really tell what they are. There's no other information to go with
them. Now. The the UFO video that you had in there, or
it was, I guess it was film. Yeah, and you got that
transferred, Yes, I did. It was from this is nineteen fifty two.
So the quality that was terrible. And actually, you know the Treamentton
that's the Officer new House film from fifty two out in Utah. You can
go on line and watch it. It's better online, I mean better quality.
Even the movie The Night, the UFO movie from fifty six with Albert
chopp Is. I mean you can see it good in that movie also.
But yeah, this was it, and when I got it, I had
hopes. When the new House was interviewed the officer that had sent it to
Air Force when he got it back, he said twenty feet were missing off
the film. Of course, you know I was excited about that. I
went out and, like I said, bought a projector also was this is
a sixteen millimeter here, bought a projector. But you couldn't take your eye
off the projector to watch the film to see if there was anything different,
because it would eat it up. So I also had to have it.
I had to take it to have it transferred, and it's just a very
bad quality. I need to see about having somebody restore it to be able
to tell if there's anything that may have been cut off on this one.
You know, this one may have what he said was missing from the other
one. I'm leaning towards No, I don't have a definite answer on that
yet researching this stuff. Yeah, so looking at what you see there,
I'm sure you know, because Blue Book was similar to Moufan and that they
took reports, so probably a lot of their reports were anecdotal. I mean
the videos and pictures they must have explained away. Have you seen some pictures
in there that make you second guests their conclusion? Nothing, I haven't.
I haven't seen anything yet. I mean, there's a few things that they
say were planets and stars, their little dots, but there's no way to
how you can tell. I don't know without more information on them. I
have a lot of pictures with no cases that go with them. Yeah,
they may have the case number written on them, or the case not case
number, but the case name. So I don't. I haven't I need
to. I'm so busy with move on, I don't have enough time to.
Yeah, but in a time I'd love to do on that. So,
I mean, god it, I started taking some celestials, ok ahead,
I was gonna say, so the material is really exciting for those of
us interested in the history of Blue Book. But uh, I guess you
probably unfortunately won't be able to find like a great anomaloust case in there,
not that I found yet, I said, I'm I'm reaching out and getting
people to help me look through things. Yeah, that's why Shepherd, He's
going to look at one for me and maybe, you know, with help
we can discover some things like that. I've got different I've had different people
when Ufology contact me. I've talked to Jan Aldrich, He's seen my stuff
and you know, we've exchanged little information. David Marler out New Mexico Ray
we talk about it. But a lot of people are kind of burn out
on Blue Book. But I mean from a historic aspect, I like it.
I like looking at it me too. Now, there was three books
in that very first box. I got, like, say they were they
show every case from forty seven on. They'll show the observer location, date,
and evaluation. I was telling the lieutenant about it, and he told
me, he's like, you know, I probably shouldn't say this, but
he said, there may be cases in there that they didn't send on the
Maxwell. Well that you know, I tried. The only thing you can
really do is it's not as easy as it sounds. Just the cross reference
on the internet. I mean, that's there's so much information out there.
I've tried counting these cases to see if I come up with the twelve,
six hundred and eighteen years don't match what different books with statistics have in them.
Sometimes I have war sometimes they have less less. I'd literally have to
hire me a crew to evaluate all that. But I've been looking through them
trying to figure out if there's anything in there, and it's that's all going.
You have check back with me on that, Yeah, no problem.
It is hard because even this idea of the seven oh one, which is
made in a statement about you know, seven one hundred and one unsolved cases,
Uh, that number is in dispute because that number varies, as does
the overall number of cases in so many different places. There's so many different
numbers that are throwing out, so it's hard to know. Yeah, So
I've just tried to focus on Ohio as far as statistics go like that,
and uh, I know we had twenty two unknowns here in Ohio out of
I think I'm thinking the number was I've got it written down somewhere. Eleven
one hundred and forty eleven hundred and some case odd cases that were in Ohio
twenty two were unknown eleven hundred and twenty four cases out of twelve seven hundred
or six hundred and eighteen. Yeah, they uh the second here I'm looking
at a paper. But those are so fun. I mean looking at the
blue book unknown cases, a lot of them are terribly interesting. And although
they are anecdotal, they're great because some of them involve uh, scientists or
or police officers or other respected people in the community. I seeing some strange
stuff. Oh yeah, and it's amazing how many were military. I've got
some complete case files from White Sands back in the fifties. Wow, that
are military. I mean it's got notes from psychiatrists talking about the soldiers,
nothing like say, nothing's redacted on anything. So you get them, you
get a good chance to see it all that, and I know there's That's
what I try to do with these. If I see that somebody's into a
particular case, I'll reach out to them and share it with them, you
know, and go from there to try to help me solve them a little
bit. It'd be nice. Just some of the celestial sightings with today's technology,
as far as stelarium and websites like that, just looking at the stars
where they were located back then, just to see, you know, that's
something you can do fairly quick. But a lot of times you have these
case summaries and you're dealing with military time, and they don't have exact location.
It's hard to I thought I'd just whip out a bunch of those and
double check celestial sightings. It's a lot tougher than it sounds. Yeah,
you knew, I mean you need to. It takes a lot of time.
But now the lieutenants told me when they was declassifying everything and throwing them
out, all navy sightings they had to throw out because you couldn't give up
locations. Wow, interesting of those sightings. So they just went you know,
went to the trash, shredded up and went out. Now a lot
of these, I wondered in these books, there's a lot of military sightings
that are just coordinates, you know, out on the water. So I
don't know. I've started a big map on my wall with push pins,
slowly trying to get all those in just to look for patterns, you know,
dates, It's something to get done. But I'm trying to do my
own little rudimentary investigations like it. Yeah, but I work, I work
full time and then some I have a family, So you gotta do what
you can do. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, I want to keep
things, changing things around on there, putting different things on there so people
can see them. And I look forward to hopefully James can use some of
it in this movie, at least some of the scro items. Yeah,
I'm sure he can. I mean, you have some really cool stuff and
original stuff there from Sacuro and I'm not surprised he's got it in there because
it's an important case. And that's an example of, you know, an
important anomaloust case that you can, you know, add to. But I'm
sure you're going to run across a lot of really great cases. And if
you do, you know, let me know if you have some stuff you
think I make a good story, because I'd love to post. You know,
it's so fun to share these incredible unknown blue book cases out there.
All right. Well, if you're the same with you, if you think
of any blue bookcases that interest you, doesn't mean I have doesn't mean I
have something on it. Obviously, I don't have everything they're hitting missed.
Sometimes it's just a case summary, which is just a basic information on a
card. Yeah, sometimes it's the whole book. That's you know. I've
got some that are fifty page cases you just don't know, but yeah,
reach out to me. And that's basically. I have no plans to get
to sell them or do anything like that. I'm just kind of hanging on
to them and sharing them with people. Great. Yeah, I have some
of my favorite cases, so I'm gonna go look that up and I will.
But thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing all of
this with us. People can see a lot of what you're talking about at
your website and these YouTube videos that you're putting together. So it's really exciting
stuff. Good job keeping an eye out and obtaining this stuff. And you
know what's wonderful what you're doing is you know, providing this information and helping
get to get through it and sharing it. I mean, that's really cool
stuff. You're welcome. Thank you so much to Rob Mercer for being on
the show. Really interesting stuff. Hopefully we'll be able to bring you some
more of his information and his files in other ways. So keep up with
us at Openminds dot tv. We hope to help him share his information and
this blue book stuff. And you know what, I really appreciate Rob.
He's a true researcher. You know, he's done a great job, and
he's so selfless. You know, he's not charging anybody for this information.
He's just putting it out there. And you know, like it happens so
much in this field, you have to spend your own money. It's often
thankless. But he's got like no qualms about going out there and doing what
it takes at his own expense to share this information with the public. So
thank you so much to Rob for his great work and for sharing all of
this information with us. If you want to see more, and you should
go look at more, he's got some interesting stuff here. Go to the
Miami Valley UFO Society. You can google that or it's just Miami VALLEYUFO Society
dot com. So thanks again so much to Rob, and thank you to
Shepherd Johnson for letting us know about Rob. As you said, Shepherd,
it is a really fascinating stuff, so great stuff. Thank you so much.
Also, thank you to Martin Willis a podcast UFO for joining us for
the news at the beginning of the show. Also thank you to Caleb Hanks
who does some music for the beginning and the end of the show. You
could go see his information at clerk Chronicles dot com or you can actually go
to the a radio page for Openminds dot tv and you'll be able to see
a link he posts all of his music for free. It's awesome stuff.
So there's a number of people to think thank dark Matter Radio. They're the
people who are gonna have Art Bell. He's going to be coming back on
the air doing a daily podcast in just like a week or so, so
this is super exciting. But they've also been replaying our show. PSN network
replaces our show some others, so thank you very much. Dark Matter Radio,
by the way, is the network that Martin is on, so it's
great to be partners with them, and it's so exciting that Art Bell is
going to be returning to the radio, So go look at dark Matter Radio
for that. You can also see we wrote a story about it if you
want more information at Openminds dot tv. Also, we already have started asking
people to come speak at the conference, so if you have some suggestions,
email those to us. However, we've got this amazing long list of really
cool people, and I'm so excited because we're going to be bringing you people
that you I'm sure you have not seen before. In fact, I've already
got what like one, two, three, four PhDs that have agreed to
come speak at the conference. In fact, two of those are professors,
maybe three of them were professors. So we're gonna have a bunch of people
you probably haven't heard before that haven't spoken at the Congress before, at least
in the last five or six years since we've been running it. And they
are incredible stuff that we've got at the conference. So you can get the
early Bridge special right now if you go online and register, So you want
to register as early as you can so you can get the cheapest price,
the best price. But we'll be posting some of those speakers in the next
couple of weeks, so really exciting stuff. I'm so excited. He's going
to be awesome. A lot of people say, well, how can you
talk Bob Blazar? Well, Bob Blazar was great, but he's not always
everybody's cup of tea. But I think we're going to be able to share
some more information about Bob Blazar, nobody's ever heard before at this conference,
some new research, believe it or not, as well as just some really
cool speakers. So this is going to be a great year to me,
just as exciting as last year. So I'm so excited about that. As
you can tell. Don't forget to check out the UFO portal. So we
have an on demand video site where you can get the lectures from last year,
including or from previous years, including Bob Blazar and George Napp talking about
Area fifty one and everything. So check that out at open mindset TV and
check out our open minds UFO Report. So a lot of the news stories
that we talk about here we do it in a video fashion, so you
can see some of these videos and pictures that we've been referring to. What's
really cool about this is we also interviewed move On, Utah's state director Erica
Lukes about these white orb UFOs because they've been getting a lot of these UFOs
out in Utah as well. So go check out our YouTube and check out
this video. In our interview with Erica, we'll have to have her on
the podcast soon as well, But thank you all so much for listening and
we will talk to you next week. Audio Smooth Tatos, your motions sound
The Glass Suffering my second