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Hello, and welcome to Open Mind
UFO Radio. My name is Alejandro Rojas

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and I am with Martin UFO.
Willis Hello, Martin. Hello, how

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good? I called you a mister
UFO when we started talking a little bit

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ago. Yeah, I'll take you
either title. It's a good title.

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Yeah. I can't remember what it
says on my license. I think that's

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all my passport. Yeah, mister
UFO, that's a sad thing to have

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on your passport. You don't want
to know you want to stay incognito,

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dude. I know. I get
stuck at all the time at different ports.

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And yeah, because when I travel
doing UFO investigations, I go as

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a I wear a fake beard or
mustache, and I come up with these

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different personalities, you know, just
because you have to do kind of a

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cloak and dagger thing to keep the
mystery going. Well, I just kind

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of, you know, I put
on a Stanton Freeman mask. Good idea

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works, Yeah, it works.
So I have a great guest today.

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His name is Rob Mercer and he
works with Ohio move On. He has

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his own site called the Miami Valley
UFO Society. And this isn't Miami in

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Florida, it's in Ohio. However, I'm kind of like curious. You

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know, I found out about this
guy. He's got these blue book files

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no one ever has ever seen before, really cool stuff that he found,

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and we'll talk about what's in there
and how he found them. But I

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hear that you interviewed him. How
the heck did you find out about Rob

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before I did? Oh? Because
even though I called you mister UFO as

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being nice, i'm mister UFO.
I know. Well, actually I'm not

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going to reveal my sources. No, I will say I was. I

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was contacted by someone in the Midwest
that knew him. It's also a researcher,

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and he said, hey, you
should ask this guy in the show.

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He's a great guy. It'll be
a great interview. And you know,

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I don't want to spoil your interview, but you know he's going to

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tell you how he found them,
which is amazing, and I think it's

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a Once you hear that, you're
gonna the listener out there may think,

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wow, that's a great idea,
and more stuff may be found the same

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way he found it. Yeah.
I know others who have found stuff over

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the years that is really cool,
interesting information. So yeah, it's a

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great story. We'll be talking about
it soon. I found out about it

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from Shepherd Johnson, who is a
guy online well. He's written for Open

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Minds occasionally for the magazine and for
the web, and he also is just

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online once in a while. He's
part of the Roswell Slides research group that

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we talked about, of course with
roswell slides. And here it goes roswell

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slides wearing at uglyhead again. In
fact, I have a bit of an

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update. Might as well talk about
it for the audience. I haven't bothered

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to write about it because I'm so
done with the slides. I think it's

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the case closed with tons of nails
on the confident. Of course, more

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nails are coming. But there is
a gentleman who has found ooh, and

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I could give more information and practically
anybody out there. So there is another

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picture of this mummified body that has
been found. It's a photo that was

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taken in the fifties by a guy
named Frank Hadel. Of course, when

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it was posted online by an associate
of Hi Mas, Jim immediately said that

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it was a fake. He thought
it was a painting or a photoshop.

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And this is what frustrates me.
I can understand someone calling something a fake

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or a hoax if they've investigated,
but I'm really getting kind of at the

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end of the line here with Hi
Mai. Immediately he calls things a hoax

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or a fake without doing any investigation
or research. And what's frustrating about this

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is a Roswell Slides group. They
are very careful researchers and they verify and

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demonstrate everything they've discovered. So they
did what Hime should have done, and

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they did more research and they discovered
that, you know, this slide comes

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from a photo that was posted in
two thousand and eight by this couple that's

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been posting a lot of their old
photographs, including their wedding that happened way

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back in the in the fifties or
something. A very attractive couple when they

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got married. But Frank Hadel was
his name, and so one of the

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Roswell Research Group, guys Isaac Cooy, we've talked about him many times before

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on this show. He actually got
a hold of Frank Hadel and Frank sent

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him a picture of the actual slide
that that came from. And so there's

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a little bit more about this,
But this is another picture, and again

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it says it's a mommified body and
that it comes from S. L.

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Palmer, that it was retrieved at
Montezuma's castle. Everything that the researchers have

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found thus far about the thing is
just all being reinforced by all of this,

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but yet more news there. I
haven't written a story because it's just

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so done, But at this point
I kind of feel like a best case

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scenario. Best best case scenario,
if there's anything anomalous about this body,

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it's that it might have, you
know, some anatomical or physiological abnormalities.

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Best case, most likely it isn't
that abnormal, but it's got nothing to

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do with UFOs, roswell aliens,
blah blah blah. Right, No,

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I'm right there with you. I
saw the picture and right away there's some

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distinguishing marks. But for him to
say that, I believe he said it

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was a painted over photo. Yeah, and that's interesting. I don't know

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how you could paint over a photo
so accurately as that. Yeah. But

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you know, if you look online, you can see the document that Heimi

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made out and signed for a ten
thousand dollars reward for anyone that proves it's

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a mummy, and I don't think
he wants to give up that money.

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Yeah, ten thousand dollars for some
kind of proof and then five thousand dollars

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for a photo. So this photo
should fit that criteria to get the five

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thousand dollars. So, but of
course it's just so disingenuous and kind of

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hoax of yourself. You don't put
up a reward if you're not have no

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intentions of fulfilling it or at least
doing some due diligence to investigate. But

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right off the batt he calls it
a hoax. Yeah, I would really

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like to step into the future and
see and look back and see how this

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whole thing plays out. But I
said all along, right from the very

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beginning, that Hymie's not going to
back down, and I still feeling the

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same way. You're probably right very
for striking. That's how are UK friends?

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You probably haven't I like to We
have a lot of UK listeners,

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of course, you and I and
I'm sure on your show podcast UFO,

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you interview researchers from the UK like
Nick Pope, and I love the way

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they say frustrating and so often I
say frustrating like they I like the way

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they spell too an organization with anes
instead of a Z. That's so weird,

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man. So let's get into the
news. Even though I already got

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into some news that wasn't UFO news, that was you know, anthropopological news.

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But let's get into the UFO news. Martin, Why don't you start

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things up. What do you want
to talk about? Well, this is

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a this is a case where I
think that there was an attempt to abduct

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NeSSI uh oh, yeah, I
know these ours, man, those aliens

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need to lay off NeSSI I know. Well. Back in April twenty ninth,

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a gentleman named Alan Betts was vacationing
in the Scottish Highlands with his wife

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and they took a picture. And
in this picture you'll find online you'll see

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this picture. It's a great image
of it looks like a double double UFO.

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I don't you know, it's possibly
it's some type of lens issue,

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but I don't think so, because
it's such a distance and when it's blown

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up, it's very it's very accurate
as far as the distinction of these two

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vessels side by side, of some
type of craft or something, and the

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guy that took the picture is actually
rather skeptical about any of this stuff.

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But anyway, I think it's a
great picture. I hope you take a

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look at it. And I wanted
to know have you looked at it and

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what do you think about that?
I have looked at it. I saw

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the story last week. I would
think it as a UK paper that had

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written about it, and I guess
it's like a company kind of like the

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ap crick Caters News that sent this
out to different news sources. And I

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thought the picture is really interesting.
And then then Lee Spikle wrote about it.

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I was talking with him about the
Hufting wrote about it on the Hufting

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posts. I knew he would do
more interviews, so I wanted to see

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what he wrote. And yeah,
this guy's skeptical. I don't know.

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You know, it's it looks like
there is rain off in the distance,

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so I thought maybe it's a couple
of rain drops that are reflecting. But

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what's strange about that is it's two
objects or reflections and they look exactly the

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same, So that would be weird
if it was a rain drop. So

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yeah, I'm really scratching my head. This is really hard to figure this

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one out. But yeah, but
this isn't one that Open Minds has written

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about. Uh oh sorry, well, well you can see another thing on.

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You can see like highlights and shadowing, and they're true. The thing

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about it is there exact doubles,
like maybe it's a double double Mint,

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Alien twins or something, remember the
double Mint. Oh yeah, that's right,

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Yeah it could be. But anyway, it's they have these little necks

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like almost like the NeSSI next sticking
out of them. Yeah. Oh that's

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true. They kind of have this
appendage that seems to come out of it.

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Almost as a matter of fact,
I like, yeah, if they

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were down in the water, they
could look like two Nessi's yeah, you're

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right, that's what is. Maybe
Nassy's taking off right there. Maybe Nassi

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is a UFO. That's what I'm
thinking. Yeah, that's interesting. So

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this is weird, but you're right, it is an interesting picture. We

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did have it in our headlines last
week, so people know. And hopefully

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I'll have a story up about this
before this radio show goes online. If

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not, I'll have one up by
tomorrow. So just check back on Openminds

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Dot TV. But you're right.
I agree with you, Martin. I

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cannot come up with an explanation for
this one, so I just gave you

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do pressure for writing a story.
Yeah, you know, I keep busy

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letting the public know what's going on
in this field. You know. The

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other thing, too, is I
haven't seen anybody coming up with a great

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idea other than a possible reflection.
One person said maybe some sort of debris

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on the lend, which I suppose
is possible. I haven't seen anything like

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this in particular before, but I
guess that's possible. But really interesting stuff

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it is. No, I don't
think that's a good answer anyway. Yeah,

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A lot ness is so beautiful too, man, I would really love

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to lilit that place one day.
It does seem to ring quite a bit,

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but yeah, it's beautiful, and
I guess it has a castle near

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the water. And that's what my
next story is relating to Roger Marsh,

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who is a director of communications for
move On. Of course writes for Open

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Minds, and this is just an
non move On story he wrote for us.

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That's really interesting and I was near
this place because this place is near

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Cosmo, Mexico. However, we
just didn't have the time to get there.

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And this is the Castle Ruins at
Tuloom in Mexico. Really cool ruins

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that are right on the edge of
the beach there. However, there's been

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a couple UFO sightings there and most
recently someone posted a video. Again,

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it's possible that what this person posted
is some sort of lens reflection of the

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sun, but the video is really
weird and I haven't seen a reflection like

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it. You see kind of this
white object in the middle, it kind

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of splits into two and everything happens
in a split second. So it's a

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really interesting video. Then Roger posted
a second video to show that you know,

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this area has a you know,
they've UFO sightings there before, and

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he posted one from July twenty thirteen
of something strange in the air. So

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a couple of really interesting videos.
I'm not sure if you've got a chance

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to look at those. I have
to say that I did not. I'm

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sorry. I've been just absolutely swamped, So sorry about that. So yeah,

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I'm not going to give me a
mack word. No, no,

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no, that's that's the cool thing
about this. You know, we don't

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always have looked at the we don't
always know what we're going to talk about.

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That's right. I have absolutely no
idea today. Yeah, so it's

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fun that way. But another story
that Roger wrote, which is a moofon

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story, is this. This is
a neat one. You probably haven't heard

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of this one either, which is
fine. I'm gonna tell you about it

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and you can get really excited and
tell me how excited you are about it

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in just a minute or not.
But this is kind of neat and that

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I don't know. Are you into
ghost hunting it on? Well, let's

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just put it this way. I
had an unexplainable experience. I'm not gonna

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call a ghost, but wow,
it really has has fascinated me to wonder

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what the heck it was? How
long ago did this take place? And

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are you willing to share that experience? I'd say about twelve years ago.

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You really want me to share that? On? Yeah? That would be

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really cool? You really do?
Yeah? I do? Oh wow.

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Well, I've never never done this
in a public venue, but I've been

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in the antiques and fine arts business
forever and I was it was a slow

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winter one year and I was,
you know, taking items antiques out of

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a house for an auction, and
I told the lawyer, I said,

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hey, if you need someone to
clean it out, it's a slow time

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for me. I'll get my crew
over here and we'll clean it out through

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everything away that you know, not
nonsaleable. So he said, yeah,

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that's fine. So I went upstairs
into a room and I was I had

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to pull the door open across the
carpet. It was really the door.

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The carpet had been put in and
they didn't trim the bottom of the door,

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so I had to yank the door
just to get it open. So

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and all the windows were closed in
the room and everything. So I put

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like the stuff out of the closet
into a garbage bag and I carried the

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garbage bag out into the hallway to
set it down. And when I did,

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the closet door slammed shut. I
mean it slammed hard. And I

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went back in. I'm looking at
the windows or closed, and then I

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pulled on the door and I realized
that it couldn't have happened. What happened

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just couldn't have happened. And then
there was a broom on the stairs and

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it went down the stairs and the
front door slammed. I went down the

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stairs and the broom was leaning up
against the door, and things like this

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were happening in the house. It
was the thing that was really weird.

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It wasn't an old house. It
was like nineteen forties or something. You

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think of all these old houses I've
been in. And then the last thing

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is I went to pick up something
basket in the garage. It was the

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last item, and a guy that
was working for me started teasing me when

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I was telling them what was happening, and you know, making ghost noises

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and all that. So he left
and there was only one item to throw

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into the garbage trailer that was there, and it was a basket in the

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middle of the floor, and I
went to pick it up and it was

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stuck on the floor. So I
pulled it really hard and it broke in

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half, half of it staying on
the floor, half of it in my

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hand, And then I walked over
and I tapped the bottom half of it

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with my toes my shoe, and
it moved. It wasn't even stuck to

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anything. I don't understand. I
don't understand what was happening, but I

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got the hell out of there.
That is really weird. That's some weird

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00:17:53.680 --> 00:17:57.519
staff. And you know, I
was excited to ask you about this because

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I know you're in the antique business
and you've done this sort of thing,

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so how strange. It's really weird. The reason I asked, thank you

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so much for sharing that story.
I think that's really interesting. I'm very

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fascinated by ghost stuff and I have
done ghost hunts before. Unfortunately I've never

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seen anything, and I put myself
like it, I'll go somewhere in the

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dark that's supposed to be, you
know, where all this craziness happens,

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and I get kind of fearless because
at some point, when you start looking

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for something and you don't see something, then you're kind of like you want

231
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to put yourself in those situations.
So I haven't had any of my own

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experiences. But this is kind of
a neat story that was supposed to by

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Roger March. It's a move on
UFO story. And what happened is it

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was about it was almost one am
on May twenty fifth, when this man

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and his daughter felt that they were
being watched. They felt something strange,

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so they started to look around,
and so they went to this cemetery nearby,

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as I thought, well, maybe
there's a ghost out there. We'll

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00:19:02.799 --> 00:19:07.480
go do some ghost setting because it
feels like a weird presence. When they're

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out there, they see a shooting
star, then they see another one,

240
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and then they noticed these bright lights, these two large bright lights that began

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moving closer and closer to them at
a very slow pace. When it got

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close enough, they said, it
looked like a giant black square that was

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darked out in the sky with these
these lights on them. It made no

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00:19:34.680 --> 00:19:41.039
sound whatsoever. Uh, it was, you know, not too far over

245
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their heads, they felt, but
it was difficult for them to tell.

246
00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:52.680
But yeah, this really weird craft
that flew straight overhead. Stayed for a

247
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minute and then it just kind of
they get slowed down and and then it

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sped up, but not like other
stories where they speed off at a great

249
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speed. It just sped up to
at a slow pace, just kind of

250
00:20:07.480 --> 00:20:11.960
hovered away until they lost sight of
it. Wow, weird. This is

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00:20:11.720 --> 00:20:17.519
a basic square now I've heard of. Actually, one of my friends that's

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actually on the Antiques Roadshow saw a
UFO that had lights on it that was

253
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perfectly square. Really, Yeah,
you never really hear about that. So

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00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:30.279
This is like the second or third
time I've ever heard of anything like that.

255
00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:36.839
Yeah, a perfect square is really
rare. Rectangles aren't as rare,

256
00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:40.839
but you're right, square shape is
is just kind of odd. So that's

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interesting. And this guy's on the
road show. He's on the antiqu store

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show. He won't give you know, he said, I could never use

259
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his name, but it was quite
an amazing sighting because the thing burst into

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five lights and was and was chased
by a jet. He saw the whole

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thing with a bunch of college baes. Wow, what's his name? And

262
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so I asked him, I'm not
gonna taste, he asked me. I

263
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mean, I asked him. I
said, did that change your life?

264
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He said, I could care less. And I'm not making that up.

265
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I mean, wow, you have
to know the guy, you'd understand.

266
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But yeah, but it's strange,
strange, and you know they can't be

267
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very aerodynamic, those square things.
Yeah, really weird. Yeah, I

268
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know I watch antiques rochhow so if
you told me who it was, i'd

269
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probably know. But yeah, that's
so interesting. Thanks, And no,

270
00:21:32.200 --> 00:21:37.440
it's good. You know, you
shouldn't give away anonymous witnesses information. It's

271
00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:41.920
a journalistic integrity thing, a researcher
integrity thing. But you do, I

272
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know you're aware of this story.
Uh, this is kind of neat because

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last week we talked about this coolnet
interactive UFO map that this guy came up

274
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with, a data scientist with where
you could click on the map and it'll

275
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show you all these sightings and how
he was particularly interested in mass UFO sidings.

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00:22:02.799 --> 00:22:06.920
Really cool map. Well, what's
interesting is now there's another group of

277
00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:11.480
data specialists who came up with another
UFO map. It's kind of like these

278
00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:18.759
data and survey companies love to use
UFOs to kind of demonstrate what they do.

279
00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:23.799
Now this map is not interactive,
but it has some really interesting information.

280
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They show sightings per capita, so
like where sidings are happening the most,

281
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and it demonstrates, you know,
just like our maps that we've made

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here at open Minds and others at
the Southwest, you know, has a

283
00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:42.759
lot of UFO sidings. Excuse me, but they also look at other things

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like the time of year that UFO
sidings happen and the shapes, and they

285
00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:52.680
track shapes over a long period of
time, so they show and I thought

286
00:22:52.680 --> 00:22:57.640
this was kind of neat that lights
or fireballs or flashes they kind of glimped

287
00:22:57.640 --> 00:23:04.359
into one group has increased over the
years, so have circular At least lately,

288
00:23:04.400 --> 00:23:11.599
circular sightings. Triangle sidings have kind
of been consistent. However, disc

289
00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:17.279
UFO sidings, what we typically think
of as a UFO has tapered off and

290
00:23:17.359 --> 00:23:21.920
has decreased quite a bit over the
years, which is interesting. Yeah,

291
00:23:22.039 --> 00:23:26.160
really interesting. And as far as
when these things happen, they noticed that

292
00:23:26.519 --> 00:23:32.759
around nine ten PM is a time
of day that most sightings happen. In

293
00:23:32.880 --> 00:23:37.440
July in the midsummers is the time
of year that most UFO sidings happened.

294
00:23:37.559 --> 00:23:42.079
So really interesting data that's shared on
this map. People had to check these

295
00:23:42.079 --> 00:23:48.799
out because they're really cool looking too. It was a company called IDV Solutions

296
00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:53.599
that put up this story and on
what's called a ux blog where they kind

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00:23:53.640 --> 00:23:59.119
of highlight their data savviness. So
it's really cool. People should check this

298
00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:03.119
out. And you know, Huffington
Post love Li Spiegel and my friends over

299
00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:10.160
a Huffington Posts, but I gotta
you know, I gotta criticize when these

300
00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:14.559
news places because I hate it when
they don't do their due diligence around UFO

301
00:24:14.680 --> 00:24:19.119
stories because they often feel they don't. Huffington Post UK posted these maps and

302
00:24:19.119 --> 00:24:23.559
totally got everything wrong. They didn't
give credit to who created the maps.

303
00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:30.039
They said new for It created the
maps the National UFO Reporting Center, but

304
00:24:30.160 --> 00:24:34.279
it was just that that's the data
they took. So that's unfortunate. But

305
00:24:34.839 --> 00:24:40.200
we've got all the links to the
guys who should get the credit for these

306
00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:45.000
stories on our story. But yeah, here again they used National UFO Reporting

307
00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:49.000
Center data instead of mof on info. And I asked the guy who made

308
00:24:49.039 --> 00:24:52.799
the map last week, even though
I thought I knew why, you know

309
00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:56.720
why that was the case. And
it's sort of the case of having too

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00:24:56.799 --> 00:25:03.440
much technology technology kind of hurting you
here. Whereas mofon has this great database

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00:25:03.559 --> 00:25:07.960
that houses all of the sightings and
you can do queries on this database,

312
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but it's limited because it is this
big database with all of these sightings.

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00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:18.720
Whereas newfork is a one man show
and Peter Davenport kind of posts what looks

314
00:25:18.759 --> 00:25:22.559
like a spreadsheet, kind of an
Excel spreadsheet of all the sightings, so

315
00:25:22.599 --> 00:25:26.160
it's easy for a data person to
go in copy and paste new Fork data,

316
00:25:26.359 --> 00:25:30.240
put it into an Excel and then
create all of these graphs and everything,

317
00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:36.039
whereas you can't go and do a
query of all the sightings from mofon

318
00:25:36.680 --> 00:25:41.000
yet so that you could do the
same thing with their data. So in

319
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fact, when I do my maps, I have to save the data from

320
00:25:42.599 --> 00:25:47.960
the monthly reports that come out in
order to put together the maps that I'd

321
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usually do at the beginning of the
year, but really cool maps. So

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that's why they're using new fork data. If people were wondering and not move

323
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on. But mofon is working on
their database to morek make it more friendly

324
00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:04.240
for the media who are trying to
put together these sort of things, but

325
00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:08.359
really cool stuff. Did you see
the new latest map. Yes, I've

326
00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:14.240
looked at over and you know one
of the one of the objects is unknown

327
00:26:14.480 --> 00:26:18.680
changing. I thought that was interesting, like a changing object, because you

328
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:22.559
do hear of that every now and
then, sure something changes, And yeah,

329
00:26:22.599 --> 00:26:26.640
it's kind of sad they'd beloved Lost
in Space disc the flying saucer we're

330
00:26:26.680 --> 00:26:30.960
all familiar with from way back,
is really kind of fading out to newer

331
00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:34.599
models. Perhaps I'm not really sure, but you know, you hear about

332
00:26:34.680 --> 00:26:41.839
triangles more often now as far as
just in general conversation. But the circle

333
00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:48.920
sphere I made me wonder, you
know, how many people are confusing say

334
00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:52.400
the Chinese lanterns, you know,
that type of thing, but this these

335
00:26:52.440 --> 00:26:56.240
spears or the orbs or whatever you
want to say, or certainly on the

336
00:26:56.359 --> 00:26:59.680
rise, that's for sure. I
think I agree with you one hundred percent

337
00:26:59.759 --> 00:27:04.799
that Chinese lanterns, satellites. You
know, this data goes back to nineteen

338
00:27:04.799 --> 00:27:10.920
oh five, so as you know, the prevalence of Chinese lanterns and satellites

339
00:27:10.960 --> 00:27:14.799
and things like this has increased.
I think that's probably one of the reasons

340
00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:18.160
those sort of sightings have increased.
But you know, a testament probably to

341
00:27:18.799 --> 00:27:25.759
the anomalous nature of the triangular craft. They've remained pretty consistent over the years,

342
00:27:26.119 --> 00:27:29.559
even though we hear more about them
now. They've as you know,

343
00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:33.200
David Marler, who I think you've
had on the show your show as well,

344
00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:37.200
who wrote the book about UFO triangles, like he says, it's not

345
00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:41.400
a recent phenomenon. This is something
that's been reported for for many, many

346
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:45.000
years, he says, back even
into the late eighteen hundreds. That's right.

347
00:27:45.319 --> 00:27:48.440
I have to say this, I
don't really say this much, but

348
00:27:49.759 --> 00:27:56.799
David Marler was one of my favorite
guests. He is just so well balanced

349
00:27:56.839 --> 00:28:00.359
and I really like his approach to
things. Yeah, that's funny you say

350
00:28:00.359 --> 00:28:04.119
that because I'm a big David Marler
fan too. I think his book is

351
00:28:04.160 --> 00:28:10.319
great. It's such a breath of
fresh air because he was so careful.

352
00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:15.799
He's so fact based, no bias, just research to put this together to

353
00:28:15.880 --> 00:28:19.319
kind of figure out what's going on
here. And yeah, I agree,

354
00:28:19.400 --> 00:28:23.880
David Marler is great. He is
the Triangle UFO guy. To me,

355
00:28:25.039 --> 00:28:29.480
he's the authority. Oh, I
agree, I agree. All right,

356
00:28:29.559 --> 00:28:32.079
Well that's all the news I wanted
to cover. Was there anything else you

357
00:28:32.119 --> 00:28:36.960
wanted to mention? No, I'm
pretty much newsed out there. Yeah,

358
00:28:37.079 --> 00:28:41.920
so it's a lot of news it
is. Well, thanks so much for

359
00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:45.839
joining us again on the news,
Martin. Of course, Martin's got podcast

360
00:28:45.960 --> 00:28:52.839
UFO you can check out on a
weekly basis as well. So until then,

361
00:28:53.960 --> 00:28:57.720
we will talk to you next week, Martin. You bet, and

362
00:28:57.759 --> 00:29:00.039
I want to thank you. You
know, I getting a lot of a

363
00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:07.440
lot of your listeners are coming over
my listeners. No, that's great because

364
00:29:07.559 --> 00:29:12.240
it's fun because you know, uh, the more the Merry are. That's

365
00:29:12.279 --> 00:29:18.000
what's cool about podcasters. It's people
who listen to podcasts, usually at work,

366
00:29:18.039 --> 00:29:22.279
and they have hours to fill,
so they've got capacity to you know,

367
00:29:22.359 --> 00:29:26.039
listen to many podcasts. So if
you're going to listen to another podcast

368
00:29:26.279 --> 00:29:29.960
than an arts, you've got to
listen to Martin's is what I say.

369
00:29:30.680 --> 00:29:36.480
That's right. And we are safe
for work. You're what. We're safe

370
00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:40.359
for work, that's right. We
don't get lude or nasty at all,

371
00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:45.559
not yet. We save that for
off the air. That's right. So

372
00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:48.599
let's go off the air and talk
some some dirty talk. All right,

373
00:29:49.519 --> 00:29:55.079
All right, sounds good. But
first let me introduce our interview. Let's

374
00:29:55.079 --> 00:29:59.039
go ahead and talk with Rob Mercer. I am very happy to have with

375
00:29:59.119 --> 00:30:03.440
me. Rob Mercer, Hello,
how you doing doing pretty well? So

376
00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:08.599
among other things you do, you're
you're with move one out there. Yep.

377
00:30:08.640 --> 00:30:12.920
I'm a state section director and field
investigator. Uh huh. I'm located

378
00:30:12.960 --> 00:30:18.039
over close to Dayton in that area. Oh okay, exciting. That's what

379
00:30:18.119 --> 00:30:23.000
makes this a you know, the
location so important. So let's get into

380
00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:26.200
this actually first, before we get
into the blue book files and everything,

381
00:30:26.200 --> 00:30:30.279
I would like to talk about your
background, and what got you interested in

382
00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:33.640
this field? Okay, Well,
I had an uncle when I was younger.

383
00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:37.440
He had a sighting, uh saw
light following him home from work one

384
00:30:37.559 --> 00:30:42.640
night, and it told me about
it. But anyway, he came out

385
00:30:42.640 --> 00:30:45.119
to the house and got me,
and you know, obviously seven years old,

386
00:30:45.200 --> 00:30:48.839
he just got me into it mm
hm. And you know, as

387
00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:51.839
long as he was alive, me
and him, that's all we talked about.

388
00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:55.759
You know, watched all the shows, always watching the sky, stargazing.

389
00:30:55.920 --> 00:30:57.359
You know, he had a telescope, always bringing it out to my

390
00:30:57.400 --> 00:31:02.759
house, things like that at and
I just kind of kept on going with

391
00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:07.119
it, and eventually you became a
move on field investigator. I did about

392
00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:11.160
about two and a half years ago, as my daughter started getting older and

393
00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:15.200
wanted to do her own thing.
I just needed a hobby more than just

394
00:31:15.279 --> 00:31:18.720
reading about it. So I was
listening to I believe it was Coast to

395
00:31:18.759 --> 00:31:22.079
Coast one night and they had somebody
on their saying that they could always use

396
00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:26.000
field investigators. So I looked into
it and you know, got the manual

397
00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:30.799
and took the test and it's very
informative and I've been having fun with it

398
00:31:30.839 --> 00:31:36.759
ever since now. Have you had
a sighting of your own? Actually,

399
00:31:36.759 --> 00:31:40.319
the only sighting I have ever had
was the July fifth of last year,

400
00:31:40.599 --> 00:31:45.519
sitting in my backyard here and seeing
a bright light coming from the southwest direction,

401
00:31:45.680 --> 00:31:49.200
which is opposite of where you usually
see the planes coming in headed for

402
00:31:49.240 --> 00:31:53.759
Right Patterson or We've got an air
National Guard base here in Springfield. It

403
00:31:53.880 --> 00:31:57.480
was it was just like a bright
headlight, just a single bright light,

404
00:31:57.839 --> 00:32:00.880
and me and my wife and daughter
out in the yard. We have a

405
00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:04.200
drive in screen we sit out there
and watch, so I was watching it.

406
00:32:04.200 --> 00:32:07.359
As it entered my airspace over my
yard. The light just shut off

407
00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:12.000
completely, and when it did,
there was no other lights on. I

408
00:32:12.079 --> 00:32:15.480
was able to focus on it,
and it was a triangle shape. I

409
00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:19.519
can only see the front end of
it. It was very big and if

410
00:32:19.599 --> 00:32:22.680
silent, about one hundred and fifty
feet in the air, just floating over

411
00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:25.519
my house. Now that's a good
distance from the back door. I've got

412
00:32:25.559 --> 00:32:30.160
one of those laser pointers used for
stargazs and pointing out stars, and normally

413
00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:34.119
it's in my pocket when I'm outside, but this particular night it wasn't,

414
00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:37.039
and I wanted it. I ran
in the house to get it just to

415
00:32:37.079 --> 00:32:39.880
shine on the bottom, and by
the time I got out, I could

416
00:32:39.880 --> 00:32:45.119
not my eyes would not focus enough
to find it again. Yeah, but

417
00:32:45.279 --> 00:32:49.279
that's as far as sightings, that's
the only one I've had myself. That's

418
00:32:49.319 --> 00:32:52.519
pretty cool, that's pretty interesting,
that craft. I mean, what is

419
00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:57.000
your sense of what that was?
Of course, when it comes to these

420
00:32:57.039 --> 00:33:01.079
triangular crafters, I did a debate
and some people think there ares you know,

421
00:33:01.160 --> 00:33:06.720
some sort of secret black project.
Some think they're there otherworldly. What

422
00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:09.680
what is your sense if I had
to guess, or probably ours? M

423
00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:14.880
h. I mean, I mean, I just there's so many. There's

424
00:33:14.920 --> 00:33:16.799
just so many of them out there. And I've had guys and you know

425
00:33:16.920 --> 00:33:22.759
cases here in Ohio where people have
seen them in the daylight and gotten good

426
00:33:22.759 --> 00:33:25.400
descriptions, you know, the back
ends of them and everything. And when

427
00:33:25.400 --> 00:33:29.640
they draw them for me, they
sure look like stuff you've seen in our

428
00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:32.400
military, just you know a little
different, but the same the same formula

429
00:33:32.799 --> 00:33:37.480
mm hm. And what about the
cases you've investigated, have you had some

430
00:33:37.480 --> 00:33:40.720
pretty interesting ones? I've had a
few. I've had a few. They

431
00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:43.680
I mean a lot of them are
just you know, lights in the sky,

432
00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:46.359
but I'd say probably a third of
them. Are the triangles really a

433
00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:50.920
lot of them, yep. And
I had an interesting one here a little

434
00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:55.640
northeast of my area last summer up
in Champagne County. A gentleman is seen

435
00:33:55.680 --> 00:34:00.920
in hexagon shape land in the middle
hit well. He had He lived out

436
00:34:00.920 --> 00:34:04.119
in the middle of nowhere, in
all farmland. He was letting his dog

437
00:34:04.200 --> 00:34:08.840
out and seeing what looked like search
lights in the distance aimed upward, two

438
00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:13.800
of them aimed in different directions,
and knowing where he lives and knowing what's

439
00:34:13.800 --> 00:34:16.920
in that direction, he couldn't possibly
fathom what it would have been. And

440
00:34:16.960 --> 00:34:20.159
it was, you know, late
at night, around midnight. He got

441
00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:22.760
in his car and decided to drive
down there just to look at it.

442
00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:25.000
As he got there, they disappeared. But then he had seen red and

443
00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:30.599
white lights flashing on the road up
in front of him, most mainly white,

444
00:34:30.599 --> 00:34:32.559
a little bit of a red to
it, and he assumed he was

445
00:34:32.559 --> 00:34:37.280
coming up on an accident, so
he rolled his winded down to slow down.

446
00:34:37.320 --> 00:34:39.719
There was nowhere to turn around on
this country road, and as he

447
00:34:39.760 --> 00:34:44.039
came up on it, it lifted
up off the ground. It was it

448
00:34:44.079 --> 00:34:46.920
was just an intense light. I
mean there was a craft a shape to

449
00:34:46.960 --> 00:34:50.920
it, but it was so intense
he couldn't make out the shape perfectly,

450
00:34:52.480 --> 00:34:54.800
roughly thirty feet wide. He said, it lifted straight up. It was

451
00:34:54.800 --> 00:35:00.679
in an area surrounded by power lines
and trees. It lifted straight up and

452
00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:02.960
went over some trees, and the
road kind of took a dog leg,

453
00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:07.199
and he followed it to go down
and turn around, and next thing you

454
00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:08.360
know, he was under the craft
again. Just the way the road was

455
00:35:08.719 --> 00:35:13.280
had wind around, and he still
couldn't get a good look at it because

456
00:35:13.280 --> 00:35:15.800
of the lights, but he went
under it for a couple of minutes and

457
00:35:15.800 --> 00:35:20.199
it turned to the left and shot
out over a cornfield. It was about

458
00:35:20.199 --> 00:35:22.840
ten days before he discovered Muffon,
so it was late for me to get

459
00:35:22.840 --> 00:35:25.719
to the scene. But when we
did get there, the grass in the

460
00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:30.320
area it was pushed down a little
bit. We had a lot of rain.

461
00:35:30.360 --> 00:35:32.599
Oh, so you couldn't say for
sure, but he was a very

462
00:35:32.599 --> 00:35:37.199
credible guy, very convinced of what
he saw. Older gentlemen had no reason

463
00:35:37.239 --> 00:35:42.360
to make anything like that up.
He was told by He called right Patterson

464
00:35:42.440 --> 00:35:46.119
himself and they told him he probably
seen a remote control and he you know,

465
00:35:46.159 --> 00:35:50.280
he's had a garage full of remote
control airplanes and helicopters. He knew

466
00:35:50.280 --> 00:35:52.719
that's not what it was. They
told him it might have been a you

467
00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:57.920
know, a medical flight, which
those things don't land in trees and they're

468
00:35:57.960 --> 00:36:01.119
out in the middle of a field, if anything. But what intrigued me

469
00:36:01.159 --> 00:36:04.960
about it was he said that if
he had to give it a shape,

470
00:36:05.039 --> 00:36:08.360
it looked like a hexagon shape in
a Moufon's database. That's not even really

471
00:36:08.440 --> 00:36:13.880
a choice when you're looking for the
shape of an object. Which and then

472
00:36:13.920 --> 00:36:16.320
you know, we always go to
the National UFO Reporting Center and see if

473
00:36:16.360 --> 00:36:21.960
they had any correlating cases, and
that particular day, about twenty miles away,

474
00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:25.519
they did have somebody see a hexagon
shape craft. Really the lights were

475
00:36:25.519 --> 00:36:29.039
different, I mean different color.
They were more of a blue light.

476
00:36:29.159 --> 00:36:32.679
It was early in the morning,
probably about fifteen hours before, but a

477
00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:36.760
guy had seen one, followed it
for about twenty minutes down the highway.

478
00:36:36.760 --> 00:36:38.559
It was over him. He said, of course, on there, you

479
00:36:38.599 --> 00:36:43.679
can't really do anything. They don't. They just report it, they don't

480
00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:45.880
investigate it. So but it kind
of matched up. I just thought that

481
00:36:45.920 --> 00:36:50.559
was odd that shape. Two people
had seen that shape in the same day.

482
00:36:51.440 --> 00:36:54.679
I found it interesting. Yeah.
What's really interesting too, is at

483
00:36:54.760 --> 00:36:59.519
least you know, I'm thinking back
when I used to do move on field

484
00:36:59.559 --> 00:37:04.639
investigations and to get your sense to
this. You know, it reminds me

485
00:37:04.880 --> 00:37:08.239
of the very credible cases that I
felt, you know, I investigated.

486
00:37:08.320 --> 00:37:14.400
But often they're anecdotal. And that's
I guess what's frustrating about this field is

487
00:37:14.800 --> 00:37:19.440
so much of the best step is
purely anecdotal. It is it is,

488
00:37:19.719 --> 00:37:23.119
I mean you sometimes yeah, well, the witnesses, they don't always like

489
00:37:23.159 --> 00:37:29.039
your what's your your classification comes up
as what they've seen. But it's it

490
00:37:29.079 --> 00:37:32.119
can be tough, especially in this
day of drones and everything too. It's

491
00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:36.559
hard to pick them out. But
that leads to where I why I started

492
00:37:36.599 --> 00:37:40.280
my little website over here in group. When I was I would go into

493
00:37:40.360 --> 00:37:45.239
the National UFO Reporting Center and look
for uh or you know, mofin look

494
00:37:45.280 --> 00:37:51.159
for correlating I live in Springfield,
Ohio, and I was never getting cases

495
00:37:51.159 --> 00:37:53.639
from my area. And I mean, we've got a population of about seventy

496
00:37:53.679 --> 00:37:57.199
thousand here. You think you get
some And I'd always see them on the

497
00:37:57.239 --> 00:38:00.840
national UFO Reporting Center. So I
just kind of started that Miami Valley UFO.

498
00:38:01.000 --> 00:38:07.480
It's Miami Valley's this general area of
Ohio. Miami River Valley passes through

499
00:38:07.519 --> 00:38:12.320
here, just to give it a
local name that maybe somebody might catch on

500
00:38:12.360 --> 00:38:15.039
to and start giving reports. Now, if you go to my site and

501
00:38:15.079 --> 00:38:17.800
report, it takes you to move
on, right, I don't I'm busy

502
00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:22.039
enough with move on. I don't
want any other things like that to deal

503
00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:23.639
with. But it's just trying to
get people to report them over here my

504
00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:28.199
area. And even still in two
and a half years, I've only had

505
00:38:28.280 --> 00:38:31.880
three from this town, which seems
odd because I've done the little bit of

506
00:38:31.880 --> 00:38:37.719
searching in the blue Book files as
far as Ohio sightings, and in the

507
00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:43.639
whole twenty one years of Blue Book
in Ohio there was like eleven hundred and

508
00:38:43.800 --> 00:38:49.960
four I'm estimating estimating here sightings reported, and roughly seven hundred of them were

509
00:38:49.960 --> 00:38:52.920
from the Dayton area out of all
bl So, I mean it used to

510
00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:58.079
get a lot of them, but
back in the sixties, mainly in the

511
00:38:58.119 --> 00:39:02.880
sixties. Yeah. Interesting, well, and it's a very big deal,

512
00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:08.000
especially relating to Project blue Book that
you're in the near Dayton, Ohio.

513
00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:12.920
And you know, maybe you could
tell us why for people who aren't aware.

514
00:39:13.519 --> 00:39:19.760
Yeah, I U blue Book was
operated out the right pad here for

515
00:39:20.320 --> 00:39:23.840
nineteen forty seven to sixty nine,
late sixty nine. And I'm a plumber

516
00:39:23.880 --> 00:39:29.360
by trade, and for years I
worked over in Dayton for about fifteen years,

517
00:39:29.360 --> 00:39:31.800
going in people's houses working, and
I would always see, you know,

518
00:39:31.800 --> 00:39:35.760
people have collections. It's surprised how
many people were into the subject,

519
00:39:36.199 --> 00:39:39.280
you know, and I talked talked
to them here and there. That got

520
00:39:39.320 --> 00:39:44.199
me to just I've for years,
I've always he's looked on Craigslist for UFO

521
00:39:44.280 --> 00:39:45.880
stuff. Every few days I type
it in if I'm thinking about it.

522
00:39:46.840 --> 00:39:51.159
Never find anything. Even then,
I was just expecting to find, you

523
00:39:51.199 --> 00:39:55.800
know, Grand Paul's UFO books that
they somebody was going to throw out things

524
00:39:55.920 --> 00:40:00.000
like that. But on one particular
day, it was September in two thousand

525
00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:04.559
thirteen, I was up late watching
the news and I decided I had been

526
00:40:04.599 --> 00:40:07.039
a few days out of check it. An ad popped up. They said

527
00:40:07.039 --> 00:40:13.199
that a gentleman was selling blue Book
files that belonged to a captain at Project

528
00:40:13.199 --> 00:40:16.599
blue Book. He had found out
under a box of pile of lumber in

529
00:40:16.639 --> 00:40:22.760
a box at a broad seale.
So I was pretty excited. It was

530
00:40:22.760 --> 00:40:27.039
one of them spit out your drink
moments when I saw that, So I

531
00:40:28.480 --> 00:40:30.719
you know, first thing, you
know, you think that's too good to

532
00:40:30.760 --> 00:40:32.960
be true. So here kind of
looking for news stores of people getting taken

533
00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:37.360
by things like that, I didn't
see anything. I seen him a message.

534
00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:38.800
It was. It was pretty late
at night, ask him if he

535
00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:42.199
still had him, and I had
a hard time going to sleep because you

536
00:40:42.199 --> 00:40:44.760
know that's something I can't get you
a little bit excited, I would have

537
00:40:44.840 --> 00:40:49.039
the exact same reaction I would be. I would, I understand, I'd

538
00:40:49.079 --> 00:40:52.000
be very excited. I was.
So I got up, you know,

539
00:40:52.039 --> 00:40:57.320
work the next day, and he
finally texted me about noon the next day

540
00:40:57.320 --> 00:41:00.079
and said he still had him.
Nobody had showed any interest in him.

541
00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:05.679
He had just had him on there
for a day. So I talked him

542
00:41:05.679 --> 00:41:07.199
into holding them for me till I
got off of work that afternoon and drove

543
00:41:07.239 --> 00:41:10.760
down there. He lived on the
south end of Dayton more or less.

544
00:41:12.320 --> 00:41:15.039
And the ad is what you know, what he said is he told me

545
00:41:15.079 --> 00:41:19.039
the story. It matched the ad
where he got it so I went ahead

546
00:41:19.079 --> 00:41:21.880
and purchased and purchased it from him. It was just a single box.

547
00:41:22.039 --> 00:41:27.840
It had case listings of all the
cases from sixty forty seven to sixty nine,

548
00:41:28.639 --> 00:41:35.199
nothing redacted in him. There was
miscellaneous files and folders, a clip

549
00:41:35.239 --> 00:41:39.239
from Lean, Illinois in nineteen sixty
seven. I believe it was the Officer

550
00:41:39.280 --> 00:41:46.599
Fisher case, a bunch of slides
and just a bunch of like press releases,

551
00:41:46.679 --> 00:41:52.199
documents in her office, memos,
that kind of thing. So as

552
00:41:52.239 --> 00:41:54.199
soon as I got in my car, I made sure I screenshot on my

553
00:41:54.320 --> 00:42:00.280
phone that ad, mainly to cover
myself in case they had been gotten illegally.

554
00:42:02.039 --> 00:42:05.599
And that was it. I drove
on home, you know, excited

555
00:42:05.639 --> 00:42:08.760
as heck, and and instantly got
into looking into him, and he like

556
00:42:08.800 --> 00:42:12.800
said he had bought it was an
auction. He had bought a pile of

557
00:42:12.880 --> 00:42:15.000
lumber, and those that was in
the pile of lumbers. How weird,

558
00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:20.760
I know. So I got in
there and got to looking at the names

559
00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:23.480
inside of it, and then one
name in particular came up, and it

560
00:42:23.480 --> 00:42:28.960
was a lieutenant that worked there.
He was on a lot of the documents.

561
00:42:29.000 --> 00:42:30.800
They were late sixties, most of
them there's stuff all the way back

562
00:42:30.840 --> 00:42:36.079
to the forties, but most of
them are late sixties. So I started

563
00:42:36.079 --> 00:42:38.280
with his name, trying to find
out where he lived and back in the

564
00:42:38.760 --> 00:42:43.639
up until two thousand and well,
he still lived in Fairborne area, Dayton

565
00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:46.880
Fairborn, That's where right Pat's at, and he had moved here and there,

566
00:42:47.119 --> 00:42:53.320
but he had sold a house early
into two thousands. It changed names

567
00:42:53.360 --> 00:42:58.280
and they had moved. Well,
I got to looking at that particular house

568
00:42:58.599 --> 00:43:00.840
that he had sold, and there
was an auction there a few months before

569
00:43:00.840 --> 00:43:04.519
at that point, so you know, it was kind of fitting together.

570
00:43:04.559 --> 00:43:07.360
I was hoping I was on the
right track. So I drove down there.

571
00:43:07.400 --> 00:43:08.920
It's about twenty minute drive for me
down there, and then found that

572
00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:13.559
house and it was actually a two
story garage, well a garage, you

573
00:43:13.559 --> 00:43:16.280
know, an attic upstairs. That's
a good place for things to get lost

574
00:43:16.280 --> 00:43:21.920
over time. So I was pretty
convinced I had the right guy. You

575
00:43:21.960 --> 00:43:24.159
know, it was on the right
path. So then it came before I

576
00:43:24.360 --> 00:43:28.800
really wanted to. I called some
of my friends from Mufon and they came

577
00:43:28.840 --> 00:43:32.719
over a couple local guys here and
we spent about eight hours on that Saturday

578
00:43:32.760 --> 00:43:37.480
looking through them trying to figure out
what they were. We could tell that

579
00:43:37.519 --> 00:43:43.199
the lieutenant he was a lieutenant with
a Air Force. He gave briefings on

580
00:43:43.239 --> 00:43:49.199
the subject for the Air Force.
Yeah, he had there were slides in

581
00:43:49.239 --> 00:43:54.599
there, things he'd pass out for
people to look at, chartistics, statistics

582
00:43:54.599 --> 00:44:00.519
on the slides. There was a
cartoon collection from that. They from the

583
00:44:00.519 --> 00:44:01.719
whole program. I mean there were
him all the way back into the early

584
00:44:01.800 --> 00:44:06.800
fifties, cartoons, comics where they
just collect them. They doodle on some

585
00:44:06.880 --> 00:44:09.239
of them. But we couldn't really
we didn't find much. There was nothing

586
00:44:09.280 --> 00:44:14.440
in there that was none classified.
And we just come to the conclusion,

587
00:44:14.480 --> 00:44:17.039
well, he must have worked,
you know, worked for him and just

588
00:44:17.119 --> 00:44:22.880
gave briefings. That was his job, right. So I sat on him

589
00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:25.519
for about six months trying to get
up the nerve to approach him, to

590
00:44:25.519 --> 00:44:30.079
ask him about him. I didn't
want to get him in trouble for sharing

591
00:44:30.159 --> 00:44:32.920
him, but I also didn't want
to take him from me. Yeah.

592
00:44:34.119 --> 00:44:37.519
So another buddy of mine here and
move on. His name's Pete Harninger.

593
00:44:37.079 --> 00:44:43.079
He was a former Air National Guard. We got to talk and and he

594
00:44:43.079 --> 00:44:45.000
said, you know, I got
a military background. Maybe I could call

595
00:44:45.079 --> 00:44:50.400
him and break the ice. So
he went ahead and place to call to

596
00:44:50.519 --> 00:44:52.960
him. We'd found, as you
know, where he had currently moved.

597
00:44:52.360 --> 00:44:54.719
I actually did a drive by on
it a few times, trying to hope

598
00:44:54.719 --> 00:45:00.519
and i'd catch hi Mount Mow and
Grass or something to out of way to

599
00:45:00.559 --> 00:45:05.519
approach him. I didn't want to
scare him off. Well, he'd like

600
00:45:05.559 --> 00:45:07.519
I said. He called his house
and his wife said they had divorced a

601
00:45:07.559 --> 00:45:13.079
few years before, that's why they'd
moved and split up and everything. But

602
00:45:13.199 --> 00:45:15.880
she felt free to give us his
phone number. He lived out of state.

603
00:45:16.280 --> 00:45:19.679
Pete went ahead and gave him a
call, and then called me a

604
00:45:19.679 --> 00:45:22.559
few minutes later and said that the
lieutenant wants you to give him a call

605
00:45:22.159 --> 00:45:25.519
talk to you about that stuff.
Of course, I was a bit afraid

606
00:45:25.599 --> 00:45:28.400
to call him. I didn't know
what was going to happen as far as

607
00:45:28.440 --> 00:45:31.079
losing it. Yeah, So I
called and explained to him, you know

608
00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:35.440
how where I got him. And
he was surprised that he left him behind

609
00:45:36.559 --> 00:45:39.119
when he moved out. He didn't
have a problem with me having him good.

610
00:45:39.800 --> 00:45:45.199
He just said, I, you
know, I moved out basically when

611
00:45:45.239 --> 00:45:49.840
the program shut down. He was
a he was, I'll go ahead and

612
00:45:49.880 --> 00:45:52.039
say his name, because he said
he didn't care if I say his name.

613
00:45:52.480 --> 00:45:57.639
It's a Lieutenant Carmen Morano. He
was there from sixty seven to sixty

614
00:45:57.719 --> 00:46:02.639
nine. He was the office are
there with Quintinella when they was cleaning out

615
00:46:02.679 --> 00:46:07.079
when Blue Books shut down. You
know, they classified all the cases,

616
00:46:07.599 --> 00:46:09.760
sent them to or unclassified them all, sent them down to Maxwell Air Force

617
00:46:09.800 --> 00:46:16.559
Base. And a lot of this
stuff that I have was stuff a lot

618
00:46:16.599 --> 00:46:21.760
of the case files with the press
came in and seen. They had books

619
00:46:21.760 --> 00:46:24.599
set up for him to look a
look at cases they'd all the time wanted

620
00:46:24.599 --> 00:46:30.280
to look at check out cases.
There was also all their textbooks and all

621
00:46:30.320 --> 00:46:37.800
their tools for investigating cases. They
had you know, books, page papers,

622
00:46:37.840 --> 00:46:43.920
correspondences from signed companies, blimp companies, textbooks, lots of lots of

623
00:46:43.960 --> 00:46:49.199
different books about UFOs. Even they
even had novels. Novel from Frank Strangers

624
00:46:49.280 --> 00:46:53.639
was in there, actually the UFO
magazines. Basically, it was things that

625
00:46:53.639 --> 00:46:58.079
were in the desk that were for
the trash and he took them home.

626
00:46:58.119 --> 00:47:00.000
He thought, he thought, now
I'll just take us home, keep them.

627
00:47:00.079 --> 00:47:05.079
They might be worth something someday well, after talking to me for a

628
00:47:05.159 --> 00:47:07.559
couple hours, we talked several hours
at night on the phone about UFOs.

629
00:47:08.440 --> 00:47:12.559
He said, you know, you
sound pretty interested in that. He said,

630
00:47:12.559 --> 00:47:15.360
I've got three or four more boxes
up where I stay in the summer.

631
00:47:15.920 --> 00:47:19.000
If you want them, I can
send them to you. Wow.

632
00:47:19.559 --> 00:47:22.199
I was like, are you serious? He said yeah. Yeah. I

633
00:47:22.199 --> 00:47:22.840
said, well, i'll pay you
for him. He said no, he

634
00:47:22.880 --> 00:47:25.760
said, I they're just going to
get thrown out one of these days.

635
00:47:27.719 --> 00:47:30.079
So he gave me his phone number
up Aaron told me call him in a

636
00:47:30.119 --> 00:47:32.639
month, So I gave him two
months. I didn't want to pastor him

637
00:47:32.639 --> 00:47:37.760
too much and called him and he
said, well, let me go through

638
00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:40.679
them and get the trash out and
I'll send them to you. I said,

639
00:47:40.679 --> 00:47:43.599
well, you know, leave the
trash in there, that's the good

640
00:47:43.639 --> 00:47:46.360
stuff. I mean, I even
take a pencil. I don't care anything

641
00:47:46.440 --> 00:47:51.039
like that. So he went ahead
and boxed it up. Came in three

642
00:47:51.119 --> 00:47:53.480
huge boxes. I mean he spent
probably sixty dollars sending them to me,

643
00:47:53.639 --> 00:48:00.559
sixty seventy dollars, and they were
just full of loose file papers. The

644
00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:05.239
whole Sacoro case was in there,
A lot of there were some cases that

645
00:48:05.280 --> 00:48:08.159
were actually organized in folders, but
there were a lot of loose documents basically

646
00:48:08.239 --> 00:48:13.679
like if you were cleaning out your
desk, Yeah, disks when something shut

647
00:48:13.719 --> 00:48:15.159
down, you know, just throwing
it in the box to make its way

648
00:48:15.199 --> 00:48:19.679
to the dumpster. And I mean
that's kind of how it was. It

649
00:48:19.679 --> 00:48:22.079
looked like the deck had been cut
several times. It took me a good

650
00:48:22.119 --> 00:48:25.079
six months to sort and through it
to get it some sort of organization.

651
00:48:28.679 --> 00:48:30.239
But as I got it, I
mean, it was good. There was

652
00:48:30.280 --> 00:48:36.360
a The CORO file itself was two
hundred pages long. Wow. There were

653
00:48:36.679 --> 00:48:42.039
like twelve pictures from the scene.
I haven't I'm pretty sure they were taking

654
00:48:42.119 --> 00:48:45.639
Saturday, the day after the crash. I've had another guy tell me he

655
00:48:45.719 --> 00:48:51.559
thinks it was Sunday, but they're
very clear first generation pictures. You can

656
00:48:51.599 --> 00:48:54.719
see the burnt bushes. I mean, you can see a lot of them

657
00:48:54.719 --> 00:48:59.400
on the National Archives website. But
there's a lot of neat things in them.

658
00:49:00.039 --> 00:49:02.159
There were more films in there.
A copy of the Treatment in Utah

659
00:49:02.199 --> 00:49:07.960
film from fifty two was in there, more slides. There are some sound

660
00:49:07.000 --> 00:49:13.840
tapes from different cases over the years, and different radio programs with a general

661
00:49:14.480 --> 00:49:17.880
Attacker on Aaron Keiho. There was
an interview from nineteen sixty eight with the

662
00:49:17.920 --> 00:49:23.519
Morgantown, West Virginia Police Department about
siding, which the lieutenant told me it

663
00:49:23.559 --> 00:49:28.360
was actually his favorite sighting when he
was there. Really, so it was

664
00:49:28.440 --> 00:49:35.039
on for satellite enter in the atmosphere
and then there was you know a lot

665
00:49:35.039 --> 00:49:37.199
of little things like that in there. I can give you a little more

666
00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:44.360
detail on pretty amazing. I mean, what's great about this and why it's

667
00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:47.320
so exciting for me, especially as
I've spent a lot of time going through

668
00:49:47.719 --> 00:49:53.519
the blue Book files writing stories on
them, and what's always frustrating and difficult

669
00:49:53.559 --> 00:49:59.599
and they don't not just difficult for
me, but also for all media is

670
00:49:59.639 --> 00:50:04.280
the images are typically photo copies of
pictures and they're terrible. I mean,

671
00:50:04.320 --> 00:50:09.599
the quality is awful and so there, and there's all this supplementary material referenced

672
00:50:09.719 --> 00:50:15.599
but not included in those files.
And that's what's exciting because on your website,

673
00:50:15.719 --> 00:50:21.000
Miami VALLEYUFO Society dot com, you've
got a lot of pictures here of

674
00:50:21.159 --> 00:50:23.360
you know, some of this stuff
in there, and you've got the actual

675
00:50:23.400 --> 00:50:27.840
pictures where you can make out these
things, see what they look like.

676
00:50:28.920 --> 00:50:34.079
Just some really fascinating things. One
of the incredible things that really blows me

677
00:50:34.159 --> 00:50:37.960
away that you have looks like two
of and I would just love to see

678
00:50:38.000 --> 00:50:46.280
one of these is this famous Introductory
to Space Physics. Oh uh, manual

679
00:50:46.320 --> 00:50:50.320
from the Air Force. Maybe you
can kind of explain that. Yeah,

680
00:50:50.320 --> 00:50:53.000
I've got two of those, Volume
one and two, I asked. I

681
00:50:53.039 --> 00:50:57.840
asked him, lieutenant, because he
was a physicist. I asked him,

682
00:50:57.880 --> 00:51:00.320
I said, there, you know, were these would these involved with the

683
00:51:00.360 --> 00:51:06.039
UFO program or would these have been
something from your training before that? And

684
00:51:06.119 --> 00:51:13.079
he said that he couldn't remember his
he's object he couldn't remember. There is

685
00:51:13.119 --> 00:51:15.760
in these books. Meant, there
is a chapter about UFOs and one of

686
00:51:15.800 --> 00:51:20.960
these thumbing through it right now,
I can't remember exactly which one. Yeah,

687
00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:24.480
those are nice textbooks. So and
I'm also a NASA. I clicked

688
00:51:24.559 --> 00:51:29.719
NASA items to have my whole life, And I mean they're just a when

689
00:51:29.800 --> 00:51:31.920
you see them, they're they're pretty
interesting. But there is volume one and

690
00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:37.480
volume two. There are those,
and what it says about you go ahead,

691
00:51:37.719 --> 00:51:39.760
I was gonna say, And what
that book says about UFOs is pretty

692
00:51:39.760 --> 00:51:45.199
weird, right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, what's it saying? Boy,

693
00:51:45.199 --> 00:51:50.840
I don't have the page saved here. There's a chapter in the back

694
00:51:50.880 --> 00:51:52.320
though that he does give it a
mention. Now there is. I had

695
00:51:53.440 --> 00:51:57.760
a friend of mine was asking about
the same book, and there's another volume

696
00:51:57.760 --> 00:52:00.360
that gives a little bit more of
a mention than what this one does.

697
00:52:00.559 --> 00:52:06.320
Trying to remember which one of these
that is, and going through this stuff

698
00:52:06.360 --> 00:52:08.360
for the last year between that,
I haven't had a lot of time to

699
00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:14.159
actually enjoy reading everything. I've kind
of organizing and scanning. It's taken up

700
00:52:14.159 --> 00:52:20.000
a lot of my time. Let
me locate that page here though. Now,

701
00:52:20.199 --> 00:52:22.639
could I tell you a little bit
about the lieutenant while we're sitting here?

702
00:52:22.880 --> 00:52:24.280
Oh, definitely, for sure.
It would get great. Give me

703
00:52:24.280 --> 00:52:28.599
a meant to find a page.
He was when he went into the Air

704
00:52:28.599 --> 00:52:31.440
Force and was assigned a Project Blue
Book. He went in a fan of

705
00:52:31.920 --> 00:52:35.360
science fiction. He grew up his
whole life a fan of science fiction.

706
00:52:36.440 --> 00:52:37.440
And you know, he told me
that he was going to prove they were

707
00:52:37.440 --> 00:52:40.519
real when he was there, but
when he had left after two years,

708
00:52:40.519 --> 00:52:46.280
he was basically he tells me any
waves convinced that they don't waste their time

709
00:52:46.320 --> 00:52:51.679
coming here. He knows they're out
there, I mean, he and for

710
00:52:51.719 --> 00:52:53.639
that reason. And if you look
at a lot of the Blue Book photos,

711
00:52:53.719 --> 00:52:57.639
I mean, there is a lot
of hoax as people sent him.

712
00:52:57.679 --> 00:53:01.039
And with the short staff that they
had, and he was investigator at one

713
00:53:01.079 --> 00:53:04.920
time, you know how much work
goes into it. In the amount of

714
00:53:05.039 --> 00:53:07.719
cases they had, you can see
where a person will get burnt out on

715
00:53:07.760 --> 00:53:13.840
the subject. Yeah, I've talked
to Bob Friend, who was in charge

716
00:53:13.840 --> 00:53:20.079
of Bluebook for a period of time, really nice older gentlemen, and you

717
00:53:20.119 --> 00:53:23.719
know, he wanted to express The
big thing he wanted to express is that

718
00:53:24.199 --> 00:53:30.400
we genuinely looked into the cases and
we did it better than he says he

719
00:53:30.480 --> 00:53:35.519
thinks anybody is doing it these days, or they were. They took them

720
00:53:35.519 --> 00:53:40.440
all very seriously, they were very
careful. But still he's adamant that they

721
00:53:40.519 --> 00:53:46.559
never found any that they found to
be, you know, that mysterious.

722
00:53:46.599 --> 00:53:51.119
He feels they were able to explain
away pretty much all of the cases.

723
00:53:51.159 --> 00:53:58.119
So and he seems like a very
honest, genuine person. And I've heard

724
00:53:58.159 --> 00:54:01.440
the same sentiments from many of these
Blue Book guys. Well that's the same

725
00:54:01.480 --> 00:54:07.159
thing I'm getting from Morano. He
and I have no reason to not believe

726
00:54:07.199 --> 00:54:13.280
him. I mean, he's he
sounds genuine. He well, I've even

727
00:54:13.280 --> 00:54:15.960
asked him. You know, we
I've always heard that all the good cases

728
00:54:15.960 --> 00:54:17.559
in Blue you guys were kind of
a front. The good cases went over

729
00:54:17.599 --> 00:54:21.880
you to another organization. And he
said when he was there, he never

730
00:54:21.920 --> 00:54:24.800
thought that. But he also said, knowing what he knows about the government,

731
00:54:24.840 --> 00:54:30.880
now anything's possible. Yeah. But
the same line though, And you

732
00:54:30.920 --> 00:54:34.199
can see, I mean I have
to stick up for him just by looking

733
00:54:34.239 --> 00:54:37.639
at the paperwork I have. They
did put at least the workers put a

734
00:54:37.679 --> 00:54:43.960
lot of effort into it trying to
solve what they were. Yeah, and

735
00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:45.599
we do have at least one memo
out there. I think it's called the

736
00:54:45.639 --> 00:54:51.960
bowling Ger memo that does say that
there were cases that the cases that were

737
00:54:52.039 --> 00:55:00.519
more significant to national security were not
included in Blue Book. So who knows

738
00:55:00.559 --> 00:55:04.000
there could be you know, of
course a lot of people are certain,

739
00:55:04.039 --> 00:55:08.079
but it's certainly possible there were the
best cases went somewhere else. Yeah,

740
00:55:08.119 --> 00:55:12.000
And that's like I said, he
never seen any of that. He and

741
00:55:12.119 --> 00:55:15.159
he give me some insights on a
few cases that he could remember, but

742
00:55:15.320 --> 00:55:19.039
when he left there in sixty nine, he never even thought about UFOs after

743
00:55:19.079 --> 00:55:22.079
that, you know. And I've
tried to get him to get back into

744
00:55:22.079 --> 00:55:25.159
the subject a little bit. He
likes hearing about some of my mouf on

745
00:55:25.280 --> 00:55:30.000
cases, the newer stuff. Man
interesting. I don't give him details,

746
00:55:30.039 --> 00:55:31.880
but we just you know, just
talk about him a little bit. And

747
00:55:34.000 --> 00:55:36.920
he's actually even though he never went
out on the scene when he was in

748
00:55:36.920 --> 00:55:38.840
Blue Book, he was stuck at
the office all the time, even if

749
00:55:38.840 --> 00:55:43.119
he wanted to. They wouldn't let
him go out. He told me he

750
00:55:43.199 --> 00:55:49.480
would take and he had. He
would tell me about investigation, what I

751
00:55:49.480 --> 00:55:52.599
should look for when I go out, different things like that. So it's

752
00:55:52.679 --> 00:55:54.960
kind of been interesting from a historic
aspect. Just you know, I'm a

753
00:55:55.000 --> 00:55:59.039
history buff too, and just talking
to somebody like that that was in the

754
00:55:59.039 --> 00:56:01.920
field so long ago. M hm. It's very interesting. Now. I

755
00:56:01.960 --> 00:56:05.800
found the page on het in this
book. It was actually chapter twenty four

756
00:56:05.840 --> 00:56:14.159
here, and it's just one page
about unidentified flying objects, and it references

757
00:56:14.159 --> 00:56:15.760
several books, but it says you
want me to read it to you?

758
00:56:16.280 --> 00:56:21.119
Sure, Okay. Since throughout this
book the authors have tried to present a

759
00:56:21.119 --> 00:56:25.679
basic picture of environment of space,
and doing so, they present data and

760
00:56:25.719 --> 00:56:32.199
elementary physics behind some important phenomena.
However, since theories which describe space phenomena

761
00:56:32.360 --> 00:56:38.159
or open to rapid change, the
authors have avoid emphasizing a particular model unless

762
00:56:38.159 --> 00:56:44.719
this model has substantial experimental data supporting
it. For this reason, the chapter

763
00:56:44.760 --> 00:56:49.079
will not attempt to explain unidentified flying
objects. Then it just goes on to

764
00:56:49.119 --> 00:56:53.119
tell about the stir that was caused
after World War Two, but it takes

765
00:56:53.119 --> 00:56:55.719
the time to mention it. But
I've had somebody tell me that there's another

766
00:56:55.840 --> 00:57:00.639
volume out there that's similar that has
it in it. Yeah, there is

767
00:57:00.679 --> 00:57:07.519
a volume that is uh out there. I haven't seen it an actual copy

768
00:57:07.599 --> 00:57:09.840
of it, but that's supposedly that. Well that you know, I've got

769
00:57:09.840 --> 00:57:17.920
the text and you can find the
text online where it goes into more speculation

770
00:57:19.119 --> 00:57:22.800
about what they might be and everything. Yeah, somebody seen that all my

771
00:57:22.920 --> 00:57:24.440
sight and got a hold of me
as soon as they've seen them, told

772
00:57:24.440 --> 00:57:30.480
me to find that page and yeah, look at it. Yeah exciting.

773
00:57:30.719 --> 00:57:34.440
Well, one of the other things
that you see on here that's really interesting

774
00:57:34.719 --> 00:57:37.719
is the Skorro stuff. I really
love and it seems like you love it

775
00:57:37.719 --> 00:57:40.880
too, because you have it up
in your header. There this photo you

776
00:57:42.000 --> 00:57:45.639
got of like a mock up.
Yeah, there was nine of those in

777
00:57:45.679 --> 00:57:50.119
there, m M and two negatives
for it. They were just paper clipped

778
00:57:50.159 --> 00:57:53.239
together in the back of only one
of them. The back said mockup of

779
00:57:53.280 --> 00:57:58.239
Sikoro MM. I asked the lieutenant. Of course it was before his time.

780
00:57:58.360 --> 00:58:00.199
Was Koro was there? When he
got there, he put all the

781
00:58:00.199 --> 00:58:05.199
files together, he organized them.
They were a mess for the press when

782
00:58:05.199 --> 00:58:07.599
they came in. Actually, I
guess he told me a lot of them

783
00:58:07.599 --> 00:58:10.599
were a mess and it was part
of his job to organize them. So

784
00:58:10.679 --> 00:58:14.239
I thought, well, maybe he'll
have a little insight to why that what

785
00:58:14.280 --> 00:58:15.760
that picture is? Who made it? It was an air force made?

786
00:58:15.880 --> 00:58:21.360
Was it somebody you know down in
Scorro, somebody making their backyard up here?

787
00:58:22.119 --> 00:58:24.480
He had no idea. He said
that David Moody put that file together

788
00:58:24.519 --> 00:58:30.320
for the press and everything in it, so he could not give me any

789
00:58:30.559 --> 00:58:34.159
point put to that one. So
that's why I like to put it out

790
00:58:34.199 --> 00:58:37.599
there just for maybe somebody will say, you know, my grandma made that,

791
00:58:37.840 --> 00:58:43.400
or I showed it to Ray Stanford. He was adamant, you know

792
00:58:43.440 --> 00:58:47.679
that he didn't care for it too
much because it it was really wasn't accurate

793
00:58:47.719 --> 00:58:52.039
as far as Lonnie running where he
was running, the train, the color

794
00:58:52.079 --> 00:58:55.360
of everything. But I mean it's
just a mock up except that like that,

795
00:58:55.519 --> 00:58:59.880
it's still interesting though with the I
just wish I knew who made it.

796
00:59:00.559 --> 00:59:02.360
I love it. I can see
knowing the case. You know what

797
00:59:02.440 --> 00:59:08.039
Stanford is talking about. How you
know, the details aren't necessarily correct,

798
00:59:08.079 --> 00:59:15.199
but it's a representation and it's so
well done and so fun and so for

799
00:59:15.360 --> 00:59:17.559
listeners. You know, you could
see this at Miami Valley UFO Society.

800
00:59:17.599 --> 00:59:23.599
I'll probably maybe put it on the
scroll on blog talk. But it's like

801
00:59:23.760 --> 00:59:30.119
a model car and a little kind
of like army man representing Lonnie Zamora the

802
00:59:30.159 --> 00:59:35.480
police officer. And I guess for
maybe you can explain kind of with the

803
00:59:35.480 --> 00:59:39.880
Sikoro case for those who aren't familiar. Yeah, and in nineteen sixty four,

804
00:59:40.159 --> 00:59:44.559
late April nineteen sixty four and score
in New Mexico, which is,

805
00:59:44.760 --> 00:59:49.760
you know, a little bit south
Albuquerque. I've been out there myself.

806
00:59:49.760 --> 00:59:53.519
I think it's about half hour south
of Albuquerque. He was a Lonnie was

807
00:59:53.840 --> 00:59:58.400
on patrol and gave chase to a
couple what he thought of teenagers in the

808
00:59:58.440 --> 01:00:01.599
car speed and he went after him
and off in the distance, he saw

809
01:00:01.800 --> 01:00:06.079
a bright light that looked like an
explosion. So he pulled away from his

810
01:00:06.159 --> 01:00:09.960
chase and went up to investigate and
came up on the scene and he saw

811
01:00:10.000 --> 01:00:15.880
a craft sitting sitting on the from
what I understand, the relatively flat area.

812
01:00:15.119 --> 01:00:19.440
But he saw a craft sitting in
a distance, and he saw two

813
01:00:19.519 --> 01:00:23.079
beams around it and he had made
his was working his way to it when

814
01:00:23.079 --> 01:00:28.480
it take on taken off, and
he kind of dove out of the way

815
01:00:28.519 --> 01:00:34.239
when he heard the explosion, didn't
run like that. The craft lifted off,

816
01:00:34.320 --> 01:00:37.920
took off to the I believe it
was the west, and disappeared.

817
01:00:37.960 --> 01:00:42.199
And right afterwards, you know,
police officers on the scene. One guy

818
01:00:42.280 --> 01:00:45.360
was taking pictures which nobody has ever
been able to found on the police officers.

819
01:00:47.119 --> 01:00:50.679
He uh, and that's kind of
what that case is right there.

820
01:00:52.440 --> 01:00:54.920
And so you have pictures like this
mock up, which, like you said,

821
01:00:54.960 --> 01:00:59.800
you know, this is like a
hilly terrain, whereas the case really

822
01:00:59.840 --> 01:01:02.639
took placed on flat terrain. But
it's still a really fun mock up.

823
01:01:02.800 --> 01:01:08.079
And then you do have some images
of the ground because Lonnie Zamora had said

824
01:01:08.119 --> 01:01:15.159
there were marks from where the craft
had landed and some burnt ground and bushes

825
01:01:15.239 --> 01:01:20.400
around. Yeah, and I found
these. These images can be found online

826
01:01:20.440 --> 01:01:22.840
and international archives. Not as good
a quality as the ones I have,

827
01:01:23.719 --> 01:01:25.559
but they have. If you look
at them, you can see the burn

828
01:01:25.639 --> 01:01:30.400
marks on the on the bushes on
the I don't I'm not sure what all

829
01:01:30.440 --> 01:01:32.639
I have on there, but I
do have some of the show the burn

830
01:01:32.719 --> 01:01:37.159
marks, and I put a video
together that's on there. I made a

831
01:01:37.239 --> 01:01:40.320
video to accompany this stuff, to
show I take these around the libraries and

832
01:01:40.320 --> 01:01:45.159
show people from time to time.
And I wanted to make a video for

833
01:01:45.320 --> 01:01:47.800
people that didn't know anything about Blue
Book to kind of show them how it

834
01:01:49.159 --> 01:01:52.679
what it was all about. And
if you go to the well, I'm

835
01:01:52.679 --> 01:01:55.320
stoleing you, let me rephrase that, I'm editing that one. I found

836
01:01:55.320 --> 01:01:58.880
some information that I want to put
in my video. I haven't got to

837
01:01:58.880 --> 01:02:02.800
finished change yet, but there's a
I've got, I say, twelve pictures

838
01:02:02.800 --> 01:02:07.519
from the scene from that day there
are very clear and I actually showed him

839
01:02:07.519 --> 01:02:12.199
to James Fox last weekend. He
was at a symposium we had here in

840
01:02:12.239 --> 01:02:15.639
Ohio, and he was very interested
in him for his seven oh one movie.

841
01:02:16.079 --> 01:02:20.320
Mm hmmm, because I would imagine
they're clearer than what he's seen,

842
01:02:20.679 --> 01:02:23.360
you know what he has. I
know he's got a segment on that case

843
01:02:23.400 --> 01:02:27.800
in the movie. I would say
it's one of the big ones. And

844
01:02:28.119 --> 01:02:31.840
he was really interested in that Scoro
what Yeah, great case. I know.

845
01:02:32.519 --> 01:02:38.599
Jay Allen Heineck, who was the
astronomer who was a consultant to the

846
01:02:38.639 --> 01:02:42.639
Air Force, said that was one
of the cases that convinced him that there's

847
01:02:42.679 --> 01:02:45.599
something to this phenomenon. He loved
it, and there's rumor out there that

848
01:02:45.760 --> 01:02:51.639
kington Nia also liked it. However, you have a video you posted where

849
01:02:51.679 --> 01:02:57.719
he talks about the case, any
kind of that? Oh now, The

850
01:02:57.760 --> 01:03:00.800
lieutenants told me, he's like,
you know, I've got one video almost

851
01:03:00.800 --> 01:03:02.840
sticking here too, that it was
in a desk drawer when he was cleaning

852
01:03:02.880 --> 01:03:07.440
the doubt and nobody'd ever watched it. He said it was of Quentin Ella.

853
01:03:07.519 --> 01:03:10.199
He had no idea of what was
on it. And that's it that

854
01:03:10.280 --> 01:03:14.679
you're talking about. In the bottom
corner there. It's about fifty seconds long.

855
01:03:14.840 --> 01:03:17.320
The quality, I didn't want to
send it away to be transferred,

856
01:03:19.000 --> 01:03:22.480
so I kind of have it done
locally here by guy that probably could have

857
01:03:22.480 --> 01:03:25.119
been better quality, and I could
still have that done at some point,

858
01:03:25.719 --> 01:03:30.159
but I wanted to keep my eye
on it, so that's what I had.

859
01:03:30.199 --> 01:03:31.840
The quality is not the greatest,
but that is. It's nothing you've

860
01:03:31.840 --> 01:03:37.039
not heard quint Nellis say about the
case. But I believe that video is

861
01:03:37.119 --> 01:03:42.119
unseen. It's a great video.
I think the quality's fine for the period

862
01:03:42.159 --> 01:03:45.840
of time. I bought a projector
to projecting on my wall myself to try

863
01:03:45.840 --> 01:03:51.639
to transfer it here, and that
projector really got a hold of it.

864
01:03:52.199 --> 01:03:54.559
Yeah, it was kind of scared
me a little bit, so he got

865
01:03:54.559 --> 01:03:58.440
a few jumps around there. That's
why I eventually had to give in and

866
01:03:58.639 --> 01:04:01.599
take it somewhere. But everywhere I
took it one the Melle to Chicago and

867
01:04:01.599 --> 01:04:05.559
here and there. I just was
afraid to let it get away. Yeah,

868
01:04:05.760 --> 01:04:11.199
but there also there was more in
that case. As far as I

869
01:04:11.280 --> 01:04:15.320
took that case, I've tried to
take all these cases, but it'll take

870
01:04:15.320 --> 01:04:18.079
me twenty years to do that.
It's because there's so much information out there,

871
01:04:18.119 --> 01:04:21.880
but I'm going on full three and
comparing what I have with what's in

872
01:04:21.880 --> 01:04:27.639
there to see if there's anything different
in files. Nothing in any paperwork I

873
01:04:27.679 --> 01:04:30.599
have is redacted at all, by
the way, So I mean you can

874
01:04:30.639 --> 01:04:36.760
see people's names and addresses in most
cases. But I, for instance,

875
01:04:36.760 --> 01:04:42.639
the Coro case, going page for
page and on full three, I would

876
01:04:42.719 --> 01:04:45.480
find pages that I had that they
didn't have, and vice versa. I'd

877
01:04:45.480 --> 01:04:49.599
find pages that sketches here and there, and pages that they had that I

878
01:04:49.639 --> 01:04:56.679
didn't have. No rhyme or reason
to why. But I was reached out

879
01:04:56.719 --> 01:05:00.400
to Ben Moss from Muffon, Virginia
because he was doing a store worry about

880
01:05:00.400 --> 01:05:02.159
Scorro, looking for some things,
and I wanted to tell him, you

881
01:05:02.159 --> 01:05:04.599
know, about what I had here
I'd read in the move On journal,

882
01:05:04.639 --> 01:05:09.719
and he put me in touch with
Ray Stanford, which I knew of Ray.

883
01:05:09.800 --> 01:05:13.159
I didn't know much about him though, so I, you know,

884
01:05:13.320 --> 01:05:18.320
was on this Internet checking him out
and I'd see his sk his drawing interpretation

885
01:05:18.440 --> 01:05:25.880
of the insignia that Lonnie seen on
the side of that craft. Over the

886
01:05:25.960 --> 01:05:31.079
years, there's been debate he used
a decoy insignia so as to stop people

887
01:05:31.119 --> 01:05:35.599
from saying they seen it, that
didn't see it. And Rays looking at

888
01:05:35.679 --> 01:05:40.559
his book, he's got the he
had an inverted V with three lines through

889
01:05:40.599 --> 01:05:44.239
it that he said was always the
original symbol. Well, if you look

890
01:05:44.280 --> 01:05:48.519
in the Blue Books files, you
can't find it. Yeahcro it's not in

891
01:05:48.599 --> 01:05:51.880
there. Well, I'm looking at
that symbol, and I'm thinking, well,

892
01:05:51.920 --> 01:05:56.119
I have seen that symbol somewhere before. So I'm going back through my

893
01:05:56.199 --> 01:05:59.800
file, and sure enough, I
found I've got like twelve pages of notes,

894
01:06:00.920 --> 01:06:04.119
notes that we've determined had to have
been taken from right Patterson, maybe

895
01:06:04.159 --> 01:06:13.000
over the phone talking to somebody down
there. And and you know, we've

896
01:06:13.039 --> 01:06:15.559
not been able to determine whose handwriting
it is, even though I kind of

897
01:06:15.559 --> 01:06:19.360
think it's Quentin Allas, but I
can't say for certain yet because the only

898
01:06:19.800 --> 01:06:24.119
handwriting is that you can really find
is his signature. And it's not enough

899
01:06:24.159 --> 01:06:30.360
to go on. But I have
about twelve pages of notes, and insignia

900
01:06:30.400 --> 01:06:35.119
that Ray talked about all these years
is in there. Twice they've drawn it

901
01:06:35.760 --> 01:06:41.400
and wrote about it a little bit, basically saying what Ray says, But

902
01:06:41.840 --> 01:06:44.880
it is in there. So he
was real excited to hear about that.

903
01:06:45.599 --> 01:06:51.599
A cool He's even I think put
out a little newsletter showing people so oh

904
01:06:51.679 --> 01:06:58.719
yeah, I've seen that where he
talked about how they had decided to change

905
01:06:59.360 --> 01:07:02.840
put out the correct one for that
reason. Yeah. I read his his

906
01:07:03.599 --> 01:07:06.800
thing he put out on that he's
caught a lot of grief over the years

907
01:07:06.840 --> 01:07:12.320
about it. That's, you know, well, people like to argue every

908
01:07:12.360 --> 01:07:15.760
point. Oh yeah, but that's
the only thing I can say is it's

909
01:07:15.960 --> 01:07:17.639
they talk about it in these files, so they've drawn it. The Air

910
01:07:17.679 --> 01:07:23.480
Force drew it. They mentioned it, you know, so interesting. Doesn't

911
01:07:23.480 --> 01:07:26.880
say it was it, but yeah, it's in there. One thing to

912
01:07:26.920 --> 01:07:30.559
note about these pictures, which is
the other reason Dayton, Ohio was where

913
01:07:30.559 --> 01:07:38.559
Blue Book was, is the pictures
are titled Foreign Technology Division Air Force SC

914
01:07:38.960 --> 01:07:44.679
which is I'm not sure what command, maybe you Services Command probably or something,

915
01:07:45.320 --> 01:07:47.119
and it's your name. Over the
years, used to be Air Material

916
01:07:47.159 --> 01:07:53.719
Command, then they went to that
Foreign Technology Division. But I've got documents

917
01:07:53.760 --> 01:07:58.760
from both eras, mostly from the
late obviously when lieutenant was there, but

918
01:07:58.800 --> 01:08:02.880
there's a lot of in these like
quentin Ella had to do a basically I

919
01:08:02.960 --> 01:08:11.000
called an essay about UFOs. Another
lieutenant that followed David Moody before Morano,

920
01:08:12.119 --> 01:08:15.320
his name is David Marley. He
also did an essay. It's like all

921
01:08:15.440 --> 01:08:18.560
and there's a lot of paperwork like
that in here, but you know,

922
01:08:18.600 --> 01:08:23.920
then they've got a There was a
file titled the or Caught for University of

923
01:08:23.920 --> 01:08:27.520
Colorado. I believe it's everything they
sent out there for the content report,

924
01:08:28.720 --> 01:08:30.359
just in the history of UFOs they
have, and a lot of things on

925
01:08:30.399 --> 01:08:33.880
that video I've made have come from
those pages I've read out of there.

926
01:08:33.880 --> 01:08:38.439
That's where I got my script for
it. So it's kind of geared towards

927
01:08:38.479 --> 01:08:41.039
people don't know anything about blue Book. But there is a lot of things

928
01:08:41.039 --> 01:08:43.359
in there like that, a lot
of photos, a lot of good color

929
01:08:43.359 --> 01:08:46.800
photos from different cases over the years. Another good one which I had just

930
01:08:47.319 --> 01:08:51.600
been sharing with Shepherd Johnson, who
you talked to about me. Oh yeah,

931
01:08:51.640 --> 01:08:56.239
I should note that Shepherd was the
one, yeah, who told me

932
01:08:56.279 --> 01:09:00.119
about this stuff, and so yeah, fascinating me and him has been trading

933
01:09:00.239 --> 01:09:03.279
a little bit of stuff back and
forth, and he I sent him one.

934
01:09:03.319 --> 01:09:09.279
It's a Homer New York case of
April eleventh, nineteen sixty four where

935
01:09:09.279 --> 01:09:13.319
a physical therapist and his family were
eating up and saw a craft, saw

936
01:09:13.319 --> 01:09:16.199
an object come down, break into
different pieces, hover around, and the

937
01:09:17.199 --> 01:09:20.720
gentleman's wife, they didn't have a
camera, but she is sketched. Heinek

938
01:09:20.840 --> 01:09:27.159
was really interested in the case.
She's sketched sly drawings of it, and

939
01:09:27.199 --> 01:09:30.119
you could find those out there and
you know, black and white on the

940
01:09:30.159 --> 01:09:35.279
internet. But there were seven collar
glass slides in this mix from Matt So

941
01:09:35.880 --> 01:09:42.279
that's that's also another one of the
Project blue Book Unknowns and also has here

942
01:09:42.880 --> 01:09:45.960
for a five year period. I
guess sixty three to sixty eight what they

943
01:09:45.000 --> 01:09:49.359
paid Heinech. Yeah. Yeah,
there's a few of his contracts in there.

944
01:09:49.680 --> 01:09:53.279
I've got some more that I've not
even had a chance to scan in

945
01:09:53.359 --> 01:09:58.039
yet. But his bills for making
phone calls, for going different places,

946
01:09:58.680 --> 01:10:00.399
visiting different people, Yeah, he
would send them in like that. There

947
01:10:00.479 --> 01:10:04.680
was a copy of one of his
exams from University of Northwestern that he gave

948
01:10:04.720 --> 01:10:12.399
out for astronomy. Just different lots
of correspondences between him and other people that

949
01:10:12.479 --> 01:10:15.920
I haven't been able to figure out
what case they go to yet, So

950
01:10:15.960 --> 01:10:18.520
I've just kind of got them put
together in a binder. I've taken all

951
01:10:18.560 --> 01:10:23.760
these files, probably ninety percent of
them, and put them in binders with

952
01:10:23.880 --> 01:10:27.479
you know, acid free sleeves,
so when I take them places, people

953
01:10:27.520 --> 01:10:30.720
can put their hands on them and
look at them, look through them,

954
01:10:30.720 --> 01:10:32.159
just to get I feel like the
people of Ohio, I owe them a

955
01:10:32.279 --> 01:10:35.920
chance to see it all before I
put a do anything with it. Give

956
01:10:35.960 --> 01:10:41.399
a chance to see the history from
around here. The other books in this

957
01:10:41.479 --> 01:10:45.640
collection though that I wouldn't couldn't touch
on on the video. But I've got

958
01:10:45.760 --> 01:10:49.600
a xerox copy of the incident at
Exeter, and on top of him,

959
01:10:50.399 --> 01:10:54.920
Heineke's written on air in ink,
and then somebody in red ink has wrote

960
01:10:54.960 --> 01:10:59.640
page numbers down and if you open
it up there's tons of things highlighted.

961
01:11:00.279 --> 01:11:03.600
I'm not sure of the significance of
it, not nowhere near had time to

962
01:11:03.640 --> 01:11:08.760
read it, but uh, i'd
really like to see what all the nody

963
01:11:09.239 --> 01:11:15.199
mm hmm. This is really cool. I was hesitant to ask you,

964
01:11:15.680 --> 01:11:19.560
but you have it here on your
photo of the Craigslist thing, Uh,

965
01:11:19.720 --> 01:11:25.399
that he was asking one hundred dollars
or best offer. Yep. That's a

966
01:11:25.399 --> 01:11:29.479
pretty good deal. YEP. And
I gave him what he was asking just

967
01:11:30.520 --> 01:11:32.720
forgure. Yeah it's worth it.
Yeah, I didn't want to. I

968
01:11:32.760 --> 01:11:36.680
didn't try to low boy him.
And yeah he took it. Now he

969
01:11:36.720 --> 01:11:40.840
wouldn't the box that came in.
It was some kind of basket. When

970
01:11:40.880 --> 01:11:42.960
I say a box, it was
some kind of basket. He wouldn't give

971
01:11:43.000 --> 01:11:46.159
me that. He said his wife
wanted to keep it. But the minute

972
01:11:46.159 --> 01:11:50.760
I left his house and I said, I screenshot at then I came home.

973
01:11:50.800 --> 01:11:55.600
I wanted to get a nice color
picture of the screenshot on my computer.

974
01:11:56.279 --> 01:11:59.960
By the time I got home,
he had pulled that ad quick right,

975
01:12:00.079 --> 01:12:02.520
have had that on there. But
I'm working on putting the garage a

976
01:12:02.560 --> 01:12:04.840
picture of the garage on their where
I found it, and all that I've

977
01:12:04.840 --> 01:12:10.359
got if I haven't already, I've
got things like had a better display I'm

978
01:12:10.359 --> 01:12:13.520
working on. But they had some
other books that they had a lot of

979
01:12:13.560 --> 01:12:16.840
scientific military books in here put out
by the Air Force, like I'm looking

980
01:12:16.880 --> 01:12:23.880
at one here called a Scientific Explanation
for Flying Sorcers by Donald Robie, a

981
01:12:23.920 --> 01:12:30.640
new theory on origins of comets.
Lots of things on fireballs. Just it's

982
01:12:30.840 --> 01:12:34.199
funny how many UFO books they had. Now I had I don't know if

983
01:12:34.239 --> 01:12:39.279
you're familiar with an author named Chris
Lambright out of Texas. Yeah, he

984
01:12:40.359 --> 01:12:45.000
wrote wrote a decent book. Me
and him was exchanging information and he was

985
01:12:45.039 --> 01:12:48.760
telling me of an article in a
True Story on Flying Sorcerers about Blue Book.

986
01:12:49.920 --> 01:12:51.680
And as he was telling me about
it, I got to thinking,

987
01:12:51.760 --> 01:12:55.840
you know, there was magazines in
the one of them boxes too, and

988
01:12:55.880 --> 01:12:59.319
that was one of them, that
particular article. And as I looked through

989
01:12:59.319 --> 01:13:05.800
that article, it's from Oh,
it's volume number one of the True Story

990
01:13:05.840 --> 01:13:10.880
on Flying Saucers. Just about every
picture in it is in the box.

991
01:13:10.960 --> 01:13:15.840
I have the stuff I have here, So I believe this magazine came to

992
01:13:15.920 --> 01:13:18.920
and looked through all this stuff and
that's where they put their look together back

993
01:13:18.960 --> 01:13:25.119
in the sixties, late sixties.
But yeah, they had quite a bit

994
01:13:25.159 --> 01:13:28.359
of things in here, films and
everything. And if you I've got I've

995
01:13:28.399 --> 01:13:33.439
had everything transferred digitally, Maleine,
I've got a lot of them. Are

996
01:13:33.640 --> 01:13:36.439
you can't really tell what they are. There's no other information to go with

997
01:13:36.479 --> 01:13:42.680
them. Now. The the UFO
video that you had in there, or

998
01:13:42.800 --> 01:13:45.560
it was, I guess it was
film. Yeah, and you got that

999
01:13:46.039 --> 01:13:50.760
transferred, Yes, I did.
It was from this is nineteen fifty two.

1000
01:13:50.920 --> 01:13:55.760
So the quality that was terrible.
And actually, you know the Treamentton

1001
01:13:55.840 --> 01:13:59.720
that's the Officer new House film from
fifty two out in Utah. You can

1002
01:13:59.720 --> 01:14:03.039
go on line and watch it.
It's better online, I mean better quality.

1003
01:14:03.239 --> 01:14:09.520
Even the movie The Night, the
UFO movie from fifty six with Albert

1004
01:14:09.600 --> 01:14:13.159
chopp Is. I mean you can
see it good in that movie also.

1005
01:14:13.399 --> 01:14:15.520
But yeah, this was it,
and when I got it, I had

1006
01:14:15.560 --> 01:14:18.520
hopes. When the new House was
interviewed the officer that had sent it to

1007
01:14:19.279 --> 01:14:24.520
Air Force when he got it back, he said twenty feet were missing off

1008
01:14:24.520 --> 01:14:28.199
the film. Of course, you
know I was excited about that. I

1009
01:14:28.239 --> 01:14:30.319
went out and, like I said, bought a projector also was this is

1010
01:14:30.319 --> 01:14:34.760
a sixteen millimeter here, bought a
projector. But you couldn't take your eye

1011
01:14:34.800 --> 01:14:39.399
off the projector to watch the film
to see if there was anything different,

1012
01:14:39.399 --> 01:14:42.319
because it would eat it up.
So I also had to have it.

1013
01:14:42.560 --> 01:14:45.159
I had to take it to have
it transferred, and it's just a very

1014
01:14:45.199 --> 01:14:50.600
bad quality. I need to see
about having somebody restore it to be able

1015
01:14:50.640 --> 01:14:55.279
to tell if there's anything that may
have been cut off on this one.

1016
01:14:55.399 --> 01:14:58.640
You know, this one may have
what he said was missing from the other

1017
01:14:58.680 --> 01:15:03.560
one. I'm leaning towards No,
I don't have a definite answer on that

1018
01:15:03.680 --> 01:15:11.399
yet researching this stuff. Yeah,
so looking at what you see there,

1019
01:15:12.119 --> 01:15:15.319
I'm sure you know, because Blue
Book was similar to Moufan and that they

1020
01:15:15.359 --> 01:15:21.399
took reports, so probably a lot
of their reports were anecdotal. I mean

1021
01:15:23.640 --> 01:15:31.199
the videos and pictures they must have
explained away. Have you seen some pictures

1022
01:15:31.239 --> 01:15:39.840
in there that make you second guests
their conclusion? Nothing, I haven't.

1023
01:15:39.880 --> 01:15:43.000
I haven't seen anything yet. I
mean, there's a few things that they

1024
01:15:43.039 --> 01:15:46.479
say were planets and stars, their
little dots, but there's no way to

1025
01:15:47.199 --> 01:15:50.760
how you can tell. I don't
know without more information on them. I

1026
01:15:50.800 --> 01:15:54.479
have a lot of pictures with no
cases that go with them. Yeah,

1027
01:15:54.600 --> 01:15:57.760
they may have the case number written
on them, or the case not case

1028
01:15:57.840 --> 01:16:01.600
number, but the case name.
So I don't. I haven't I need

1029
01:16:01.600 --> 01:16:04.560
to. I'm so busy with move
on, I don't have enough time to.

1030
01:16:04.840 --> 01:16:10.560
Yeah, but in a time I'd
love to do on that. So,

1031
01:16:10.640 --> 01:16:14.479
I mean, god it, I
started taking some celestials, ok ahead,

1032
01:16:15.479 --> 01:16:19.560
I was gonna say, so the
material is really exciting for those of

1033
01:16:19.600 --> 01:16:24.560
us interested in the history of Blue
Book. But uh, I guess you

1034
01:16:24.680 --> 01:16:29.760
probably unfortunately won't be able to find
like a great anomaloust case in there,

1035
01:16:30.760 --> 01:16:33.079
not that I found yet, I
said, I'm I'm reaching out and getting

1036
01:16:33.079 --> 01:16:36.840
people to help me look through things. Yeah, that's why Shepherd, He's

1037
01:16:36.840 --> 01:16:41.560
going to look at one for me
and maybe, you know, with help

1038
01:16:41.600 --> 01:16:45.119
we can discover some things like that. I've got different I've had different people

1039
01:16:45.119 --> 01:16:48.720
when Ufology contact me. I've talked
to Jan Aldrich, He's seen my stuff

1040
01:16:48.720 --> 01:16:55.640
and you know, we've exchanged little
information. David Marler out New Mexico Ray

1041
01:16:55.479 --> 01:16:59.239
we talk about it. But a
lot of people are kind of burn out

1042
01:16:59.279 --> 01:17:01.319
on Blue Book. But I mean
from a historic aspect, I like it.

1043
01:17:01.359 --> 01:17:05.159
I like looking at it me too. Now, there was three books

1044
01:17:05.199 --> 01:17:08.680
in that very first box. I
got, like, say they were they

1045
01:17:08.720 --> 01:17:13.399
show every case from forty seven on. They'll show the observer location, date,

1046
01:17:13.439 --> 01:17:17.560
and evaluation. I was telling the
lieutenant about it, and he told

1047
01:17:17.640 --> 01:17:20.079
me, he's like, you know, I probably shouldn't say this, but

1048
01:17:20.119 --> 01:17:25.840
he said, there may be cases
in there that they didn't send on the

1049
01:17:25.960 --> 01:17:30.279
Maxwell. Well that you know,
I tried. The only thing you can

1050
01:17:30.319 --> 01:17:34.279
really do is it's not as easy
as it sounds. Just the cross reference

1051
01:17:34.279 --> 01:17:38.279
on the internet. I mean,
that's there's so much information out there.

1052
01:17:38.319 --> 01:17:41.479
I've tried counting these cases to see
if I come up with the twelve,

1053
01:17:41.880 --> 01:17:48.199
six hundred and eighteen years don't match
what different books with statistics have in them.

1054
01:17:48.720 --> 01:17:53.840
Sometimes I have war sometimes they have
less less. I'd literally have to

1055
01:17:53.920 --> 01:17:59.159
hire me a crew to evaluate all
that. But I've been looking through them

1056
01:17:59.159 --> 01:18:01.439
trying to figure out if there's anything
in there, and it's that's all going.

1057
01:18:01.560 --> 01:18:04.920
You have check back with me on
that, Yeah, no problem.

1058
01:18:04.920 --> 01:18:10.199
It is hard because even this idea
of the seven oh one, which is

1059
01:18:10.239 --> 01:18:15.119
made in a statement about you know, seven one hundred and one unsolved cases,

1060
01:18:15.680 --> 01:18:20.319
Uh, that number is in dispute
because that number varies, as does

1061
01:18:20.399 --> 01:18:26.880
the overall number of cases in so
many different places. There's so many different

1062
01:18:27.840 --> 01:18:31.319
numbers that are throwing out, so
it's hard to know. Yeah, So

1063
01:18:31.359 --> 01:18:36.119
I've just tried to focus on Ohio
as far as statistics go like that,

1064
01:18:36.840 --> 01:18:42.760
and uh, I know we had
twenty two unknowns here in Ohio out of

1065
01:18:43.039 --> 01:18:45.279
I think I'm thinking the number was
I've got it written down somewhere. Eleven

1066
01:18:45.319 --> 01:18:49.439
one hundred and forty eleven hundred and
some case odd cases that were in Ohio

1067
01:18:49.479 --> 01:18:57.199
twenty two were unknown eleven hundred and
twenty four cases out of twelve seven hundred

1068
01:18:57.239 --> 01:19:01.840
or six hundred and eighteen. Yeah, they uh the second here I'm looking

1069
01:19:01.880 --> 01:19:05.399
at a paper. But those are
so fun. I mean looking at the

1070
01:19:05.479 --> 01:19:11.600
blue book unknown cases, a lot
of them are terribly interesting. And although

1071
01:19:11.640 --> 01:19:16.840
they are anecdotal, they're great because
some of them involve uh, scientists or

1072
01:19:17.279 --> 01:19:25.079
or police officers or other respected people
in the community. I seeing some strange

1073
01:19:25.079 --> 01:19:28.760
stuff. Oh yeah, and it's
amazing how many were military. I've got

1074
01:19:28.760 --> 01:19:32.239
some complete case files from White Sands
back in the fifties. Wow, that

1075
01:19:32.359 --> 01:19:40.439
are military. I mean it's got
notes from psychiatrists talking about the soldiers,

1076
01:19:40.479 --> 01:19:43.600
nothing like say, nothing's redacted on
anything. So you get them, you

1077
01:19:44.000 --> 01:19:45.560
get a good chance to see it
all that, and I know there's That's

1078
01:19:45.560 --> 01:19:49.640
what I try to do with these. If I see that somebody's into a

1079
01:19:49.680 --> 01:19:55.000
particular case, I'll reach out to
them and share it with them, you

1080
01:19:55.039 --> 01:19:59.399
know, and go from there to
try to help me solve them a little

1081
01:19:59.399 --> 01:20:04.039
bit. It'd be nice. Just
some of the celestial sightings with today's technology,

1082
01:20:04.079 --> 01:20:09.199
as far as stelarium and websites like
that, just looking at the stars

1083
01:20:09.239 --> 01:20:12.439
where they were located back then,
just to see, you know, that's

1084
01:20:12.439 --> 01:20:15.199
something you can do fairly quick.
But a lot of times you have these

1085
01:20:15.239 --> 01:20:19.680
case summaries and you're dealing with military
time, and they don't have exact location.

1086
01:20:19.720 --> 01:20:23.960
It's hard to I thought I'd just
whip out a bunch of those and

1087
01:20:24.640 --> 01:20:29.039
double check celestial sightings. It's a
lot tougher than it sounds. Yeah,

1088
01:20:29.600 --> 01:20:31.199
you knew, I mean you need
to. It takes a lot of time.

1089
01:20:32.359 --> 01:20:36.199
But now the lieutenants told me when
they was declassifying everything and throwing them

1090
01:20:36.199 --> 01:20:42.159
out, all navy sightings they had
to throw out because you couldn't give up

1091
01:20:42.199 --> 01:20:46.039
locations. Wow, interesting of those
sightings. So they just went you know,

1092
01:20:46.079 --> 01:20:49.520
went to the trash, shredded up
and went out. Now a lot

1093
01:20:49.560 --> 01:20:54.239
of these, I wondered in these
books, there's a lot of military sightings

1094
01:20:54.279 --> 01:20:57.239
that are just coordinates, you know, out on the water. So I

1095
01:20:57.239 --> 01:21:02.000
don't know. I've started a big
map on my wall with push pins,

1096
01:21:02.039 --> 01:21:06.319
slowly trying to get all those in
just to look for patterns, you know,

1097
01:21:06.439 --> 01:21:13.279
dates, It's something to get done. But I'm trying to do my

1098
01:21:13.279 --> 01:21:16.119
own little rudimentary investigations like it.
Yeah, but I work, I work

1099
01:21:16.159 --> 01:21:19.319
full time and then some I have
a family, So you gotta do what

1100
01:21:19.359 --> 01:21:24.720
you can do. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, I want to keep

1101
01:21:24.760 --> 01:21:27.960
things, changing things around on there, putting different things on there so people

1102
01:21:27.960 --> 01:21:31.399
can see them. And I look
forward to hopefully James can use some of

1103
01:21:31.439 --> 01:21:34.840
it in this movie, at least
some of the scro items. Yeah,

1104
01:21:34.920 --> 01:21:38.680
I'm sure he can. I mean, you have some really cool stuff and

1105
01:21:38.760 --> 01:21:43.119
original stuff there from Sacuro and I'm
not surprised he's got it in there because

1106
01:21:43.119 --> 01:21:45.600
it's an important case. And that's
an example of, you know, an

1107
01:21:45.600 --> 01:21:51.760
important anomaloust case that you can,
you know, add to. But I'm

1108
01:21:51.800 --> 01:21:56.960
sure you're going to run across a
lot of really great cases. And if

1109
01:21:56.960 --> 01:21:59.680
you do, you know, let
me know if you have some stuff you

1110
01:21:59.680 --> 01:22:02.560
think I make a good story,
because I'd love to post. You know,

1111
01:22:03.000 --> 01:22:09.079
it's so fun to share these incredible
unknown blue book cases out there.

1112
01:22:09.479 --> 01:22:11.359
All right. Well, if you're
the same with you, if you think

1113
01:22:11.399 --> 01:22:15.319
of any blue bookcases that interest you, doesn't mean I have doesn't mean I

1114
01:22:15.359 --> 01:22:17.960
have something on it. Obviously,
I don't have everything they're hitting missed.

1115
01:22:17.960 --> 01:22:21.760
Sometimes it's just a case summary,
which is just a basic information on a

1116
01:22:21.840 --> 01:22:27.039
card. Yeah, sometimes it's the
whole book. That's you know. I've

1117
01:22:27.039 --> 01:22:31.279
got some that are fifty page cases
you just don't know, but yeah,

1118
01:22:31.359 --> 01:22:35.479
reach out to me. And that's
basically. I have no plans to get

1119
01:22:35.560 --> 01:22:39.199
to sell them or do anything like
that. I'm just kind of hanging on

1120
01:22:39.279 --> 01:22:42.359
to them and sharing them with people. Great. Yeah, I have some

1121
01:22:42.439 --> 01:22:45.399
of my favorite cases, so I'm
gonna go look that up and I will.

1122
01:22:45.840 --> 01:22:49.560
But thank you so much for coming
on the show and sharing all of

1123
01:22:49.600 --> 01:22:55.359
this with us. People can see
a lot of what you're talking about at

1124
01:22:55.399 --> 01:23:00.000
your website and these YouTube videos that
you're putting together. So it's really exciting

1125
01:23:00.119 --> 01:23:05.279
stuff. Good job keeping an eye
out and obtaining this stuff. And you

1126
01:23:05.319 --> 01:23:11.960
know what's wonderful what you're doing is
you know, providing this information and helping

1127
01:23:12.039 --> 01:23:15.520
get to get through it and sharing
it. I mean, that's really cool

1128
01:23:15.520 --> 01:23:19.479
stuff. You're welcome. Thank you
so much to Rob Mercer for being on

1129
01:23:19.520 --> 01:23:26.279
the show. Really interesting stuff.
Hopefully we'll be able to bring you some

1130
01:23:26.399 --> 01:23:30.319
more of his information and his files
in other ways. So keep up with

1131
01:23:30.399 --> 01:23:36.199
us at Openminds dot tv. We
hope to help him share his information and

1132
01:23:36.279 --> 01:23:41.279
this blue book stuff. And you
know what, I really appreciate Rob.

1133
01:23:41.560 --> 01:23:45.279
He's a true researcher. You know, he's done a great job, and

1134
01:23:45.319 --> 01:23:48.720
he's so selfless. You know,
he's not charging anybody for this information.

1135
01:23:49.840 --> 01:23:55.359
He's just putting it out there.
And you know, like it happens so

1136
01:23:55.439 --> 01:23:59.319
much in this field, you have
to spend your own money. It's often

1137
01:23:59.439 --> 01:24:03.640
thankless. But he's got like no
qualms about going out there and doing what

1138
01:24:03.760 --> 01:24:09.239
it takes at his own expense to
share this information with the public. So

1139
01:24:10.359 --> 01:24:14.199
thank you so much to Rob for
his great work and for sharing all of

1140
01:24:14.239 --> 01:24:17.039
this information with us. If you
want to see more, and you should

1141
01:24:17.159 --> 01:24:20.720
go look at more, he's got
some interesting stuff here. Go to the

1142
01:24:20.760 --> 01:24:28.000
Miami Valley UFO Society. You can
google that or it's just Miami VALLEYUFO Society

1143
01:24:28.600 --> 01:24:32.039
dot com. So thanks again so
much to Rob, and thank you to

1144
01:24:32.159 --> 01:24:36.520
Shepherd Johnson for letting us know about
Rob. As you said, Shepherd,

1145
01:24:36.800 --> 01:24:42.159
it is a really fascinating stuff,
so great stuff. Thank you so much.

1146
01:24:42.680 --> 01:24:45.520
Also, thank you to Martin Willis
a podcast UFO for joining us for

1147
01:24:45.640 --> 01:24:50.199
the news at the beginning of the
show. Also thank you to Caleb Hanks

1148
01:24:50.199 --> 01:24:55.039
who does some music for the beginning
and the end of the show. You

1149
01:24:55.079 --> 01:24:59.760
could go see his information at clerk
Chronicles dot com or you can actually go

1150
01:24:59.800 --> 01:25:03.000
to the a radio page for Openminds
dot tv and you'll be able to see

1151
01:25:03.000 --> 01:25:06.880
a link he posts all of his
music for free. It's awesome stuff.

1152
01:25:09.119 --> 01:25:12.520
So there's a number of people to
think thank dark Matter Radio. They're the

1153
01:25:12.760 --> 01:25:16.000
people who are gonna have Art Bell. He's going to be coming back on

1154
01:25:16.119 --> 01:25:19.760
the air doing a daily podcast in
just like a week or so, so

1155
01:25:19.840 --> 01:25:26.439
this is super exciting. But they've
also been replaying our show. PSN network

1156
01:25:26.520 --> 01:25:30.800
replaces our show some others, so
thank you very much. Dark Matter Radio,

1157
01:25:30.880 --> 01:25:34.600
by the way, is the network
that Martin is on, so it's

1158
01:25:34.640 --> 01:25:40.560
great to be partners with them,
and it's so exciting that Art Bell is

1159
01:25:40.560 --> 01:25:45.279
going to be returning to the radio, So go look at dark Matter Radio

1160
01:25:45.399 --> 01:25:47.319
for that. You can also see
we wrote a story about it if you

1161
01:25:47.359 --> 01:25:55.439
want more information at Openminds dot tv. Also, we already have started asking

1162
01:25:55.479 --> 01:26:00.680
people to come speak at the conference, so if you have some suggestions,

1163
01:26:00.760 --> 01:26:04.800
email those to us. However,
we've got this amazing long list of really

1164
01:26:04.840 --> 01:26:09.960
cool people, and I'm so excited
because we're going to be bringing you people

1165
01:26:10.479 --> 01:26:14.800
that you I'm sure you have not
seen before. In fact, I've already

1166
01:26:14.840 --> 01:26:18.920
got what like one, two,
three, four PhDs that have agreed to

1167
01:26:19.000 --> 01:26:27.640
come speak at the conference. In
fact, two of those are professors,

1168
01:26:28.439 --> 01:26:30.960
maybe three of them were professors.
So we're gonna have a bunch of people

1169
01:26:31.000 --> 01:26:35.720
you probably haven't heard before that haven't
spoken at the Congress before, at least

1170
01:26:35.760 --> 01:26:39.439
in the last five or six years
since we've been running it. And they

1171
01:26:39.439 --> 01:26:44.359
are incredible stuff that we've got at
the conference. So you can get the

1172
01:26:44.479 --> 01:26:46.600
early Bridge special right now if you
go online and register, So you want

1173
01:26:46.600 --> 01:26:50.199
to register as early as you can
so you can get the cheapest price,

1174
01:26:50.439 --> 01:26:56.600
the best price. But we'll be
posting some of those speakers in the next

1175
01:26:56.680 --> 01:27:00.960
couple of weeks, so really exciting
stuff. I'm so excited. He's going

1176
01:27:00.039 --> 01:27:02.600
to be awesome. A lot of
people say, well, how can you

1177
01:27:02.640 --> 01:27:08.079
talk Bob Blazar? Well, Bob
Blazar was great, but he's not always

1178
01:27:08.159 --> 01:27:11.039
everybody's cup of tea. But I
think we're going to be able to share

1179
01:27:11.079 --> 01:27:15.720
some more information about Bob Blazar,
nobody's ever heard before at this conference,

1180
01:27:15.760 --> 01:27:19.479
some new research, believe it or
not, as well as just some really

1181
01:27:19.520 --> 01:27:24.560
cool speakers. So this is going
to be a great year to me,

1182
01:27:24.800 --> 01:27:28.239
just as exciting as last year.
So I'm so excited about that. As

1183
01:27:28.239 --> 01:27:30.319
you can tell. Don't forget to
check out the UFO portal. So we

1184
01:27:30.359 --> 01:27:34.720
have an on demand video site where
you can get the lectures from last year,

1185
01:27:34.920 --> 01:27:41.600
including or from previous years, including
Bob Blazar and George Napp talking about

1186
01:27:41.640 --> 01:27:45.800
Area fifty one and everything. So
check that out at open mindset TV and

1187
01:27:45.960 --> 01:27:48.279
check out our open minds UFO Report. So a lot of the news stories

1188
01:27:48.279 --> 01:27:51.439
that we talk about here we do
it in a video fashion, so you

1189
01:27:51.439 --> 01:27:56.279
can see some of these videos and
pictures that we've been referring to. What's

1190
01:27:56.359 --> 01:28:02.239
really cool about this is we also
interviewed move On, Utah's state director Erica

1191
01:28:02.439 --> 01:28:08.239
Lukes about these white orb UFOs because
they've been getting a lot of these UFOs

1192
01:28:09.159 --> 01:28:13.159
out in Utah as well. So
go check out our YouTube and check out

1193
01:28:13.159 --> 01:28:15.199
this video. In our interview with
Erica, we'll have to have her on

1194
01:28:15.239 --> 01:28:20.640
the podcast soon as well, But
thank you all so much for listening and

1195
01:28:20.800 --> 01:29:17.800
we will talk to you next week. Audio Smooth Tatos, your motions sound

1196
01:29:18.000 --> 01:29:23.279
The Glass Suffering my second