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Hello, Welcome to this episode of
Superhero Ethics. Today we are going back

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to a childhood favorite of a lot
of us, Willow, and talking about

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the TV show now that it is
finished. It'll be myself, Ashley,

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Katie and Mark right after our commercial
break that we have no control over.

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Welcome back this as Matthew your host. Any of you listened to the episode

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about the Willow movie we put up
about six weeks ago, I've got the

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same crew back with me. First
Office, Ashley Coffin from the MCU cast.

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Fame Ashley. How are we doing
today? I'm great, I'm great,

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you know, just a good old
Thursday. Glad to be talking about

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this show. Super super excited.
Yeah, I think we're gonna have a

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pretty well I would say we're gonna
have a wide range of opinions. I

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think we're actually fairly close in some
of our opinions from we'll get into that

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into the second. Mark, you're
not as well known. You want to

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say a bit about yourself as you
welcome We Welcome to the show. Hi.

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I'm Mark Arcusha. I'm a actor, voice actor, UM, podcaster

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and old school Willow fan. UM
I mean or Willow Willow fan. From

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way back. I should say,
I don't want to. I don't want

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to just come out. I'm an
old school Willow fan. I'm not like

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you, like who to go to
about Willow any questions? You know?

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Yeah, thank you, I've I've
put a lot of time of Willow.

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That's right. Yeah. When everybody
else in high school was was, you

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know, doing like talking to girls, I was focusing on a ten year

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old movie at the time, Where
is terres lead? Yeah that's right,

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yeah, yeah, yeah. And
miss Brennan say hello, Sam worried about

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yourself? Um, Hello, I'm
Katie Brennan. I am Supreme Leader,

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Ash's best friend and confidant. It's
true. I also am a podcaster,

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really active in the tabletop role playing
more old I also by day I am

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a strategic analytics consultant. And yeah, I'm into a lot of nerdy stuff

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and also a way back Willow fan. Nice nice. Yeah. As I

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said before on the last episode,
I'm also someone who fell in love with

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Willow as a child. I really
loved it, but I didn't really keep

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up with it the way some other
folks did. I probably watched it once

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or twice and then, but had
really happy memories of it, watched it

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again as an adult. All those
happy members came back and then turned on

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the show. And so let's start
with our thoughts about the show. Mark

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won't kick us off. We're gonna
start letting each person kind of give a

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general overview. People can respond and
comment a bit, and I'll go to

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the next person, and then we
can dive into some of the specific things

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from the show. Okay, all
right, Um, So for me,

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generally speaking, there was things I
liked about the show and things I didn't

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like about the show, which I
guess is you can say that about anything.

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But one thing that like kind of
has stood out to me about this

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show is that it's it's kind of
disjointed. Um. In in the Dungeons

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and Dragons slash tabletop role playing world, we have a thing called Session zero

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where everyone gets together and says,
like, before the game starts, you

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know, before a campaign starts,
you get together and you say, like,

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Okay, so what's what's the tone
of this game gonna be? Like

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we're gonna are we going like the
Witcher, Are we going like like dark

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fantasy, like serious dark fantasy,
or are we doing like slapstick comedy,

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right, Yeah, And you know, it just kind of feels like they

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did not have a session zero for
this show. It feels like the kind

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of Dungeons and Dragons game where you
come in here like, oh, what's

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your character? Oh, I'm a
I'm a questing knight who is looking for

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my lost brother. And who are
you? I'm a cowboy who hunts werewolves?

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Okay, who are you? I'm
an astronaut who crashed. And it's

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just like it just doesn't feel like
there's a like a through line in the

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show. But you know, having
said that, there was a lot of

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stuff I liked about the show.
Nice Katie, Okay. Um, So

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I will say that I was able
to enjoy the show for the first few

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episodes. I was able to just
have fun watching it. And I agree

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with everything Mark said. Um,
but you know, I kind of had

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I think it was the member very
effect, I guess in the beginning,

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with the nostalgia and seeing what they
were going to do in the new characters.

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And um, I actually really enjoy
some of the actors, Like I'm

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really like I really like the actors
who played Kit. I like the guy

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who plays Burman. UM really like
also he's I think he's very sexy.

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Um he kept doing them with his
voice that was there's some crazy the entire

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time. You know, I like
a Rakish rogue. I really like a

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Rakish rogue. And so he kind
of added that mad Martigan thing and so

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had I had a really good time
through the first four episodes, even though

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there were some things I didn't like, and then it kind of went down

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for me. I totally agree about
the lack of ARC. I think it's

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like, what I loved so much
about the Willow movie in the eighties was

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that it was this fun fantasy adventure
movie and also there was like a little

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love story in there. This was
like love stories on overdrive, set to

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like a subtle backdrop of fantasy adventure, you know, just like they spent

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they paid their biggest writers to write
the love scenes, the one on one

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love scenes, and then they're like
interns wrote the story plot of ARC.

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Like that's kind of how I feel
about it. So it was disappointing in

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a lot of ways. And then
I'm sure we'll get into this more.

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But sort of how they treated who
Willow became and the relationship between him and

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Laura really bugged me. Just there
was a lot of little things that I

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didn't like, and then there were
some things that I did. You know,

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it was it was a show.
It was definitely a show that watched.

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We watched that one episode together,
and that is true. It was

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eight episodes of television. Eight actually, okay, how to articulate that not

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every show is made for every person, and this show was a hundred percent

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not made for me, And it
came with the guys that it was,

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which is why I'm so hurt,
because I thought it was gonna be well

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and there the things that could have
been good for it for me just got

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so overshadowed by everything else that was
going on. For someone who's as picky

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about costumes and hair and dialogue as
I am, they were running around in

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jean jackets with zippers and everybody had
highlights and I couldn't. And the dialogue,

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oh, the just like hey,
new girl, where are you at?

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Or all that, like nobody would
like can I have a little fantasy

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dialogue in my fantasy show here?
And the jokes that would try to break

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up the like tense stuff, nothing
hit. So it was like that episode

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I was watching with Katie you would
get like you brought Christian Slater in.

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How could I not be like,
oh my god, it's Christian Slater.

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Within two seconds they did, the
trolls opened their mouths and started talking like,

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oh hey, what's up. And
I was like, right, I'm

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gonna flip this table. I am
gonna flip this table. I had to

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leave the room so many times during
this show, like I would just get

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up and walk out. So if
you liked it, I'm really sorry,

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but oh god, I just there
was a chore to get through this for

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me. The music or music,
Oh my god. He was like,

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what there we go? If they
you had a score, a beautiful,

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perfect score laid in front of you
that you could have used the entire time

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over and over again, and tricked
me that I loved what was going on

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because I loved the music. The
last episode there was like one line from

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the original Willow team and I'm like, oh, here it is, and

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then it was gone. That was
good. I've never been so disappointed to

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hear dire straits. But they were
building something interesting at the very end with

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great end meeting the worm who's this
beautiful woman and their slow reveal that she

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she has this huge army behind her, and I heard the first few bars

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of money for Nothing, a song
I know so well, and I was

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like, no, no, don't, don't give that to me because I

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actually am being moved by this moment. And then the guitar riff and you

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could do you know that song is
like wait is this and then it's like

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bloom, like no, no,
no, no no, and then it

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was yeah, it sucks because like
that d D the couple first few notes

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are like kind of cool and like
fit that moment really well. But then

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it like I got a job selling
refrigerators and microwaves and dvsmit. I was

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gonna say, actually, I'm glad
you saved it, because the first thing

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I was going to say was it
tells you something about how many bad things

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they were in a show. From
Ashley's perspective that actually, who loves talking

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about the scores of movies? It
was terrible play let's play some modern music

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at the end of every episode.
But okay, here we'll just hear me

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out. Let's have a terrible cover
of it. Yeah, like coffee Shop

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Chick. Yeah, the last one
I think was an original, And I

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did like the cover of I'm on
fire. So here's kind of my overall

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thoughts on it, and then we
can break it start breaking down. I've

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had this experience with other things as
well, Like I think there's a very

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good movie out there that has Sean
Connery as a king. I love Richard

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Gere as a knight, and they're
both in love with the same move woman.

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I think if I just think about
it in those terms, it is

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a wonderful movie. If I think
about it as a King Arthur story,

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which the movie First Night claims to
be, I hate it. And I

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think like, if this had been
marketed to me as a gen Z take

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on eighties fantasy that was going to
be somewhat satire and somewhat poking fun at

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it and also have i will say, some of the best queer representation in

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fantasy genre that I've ever seen,
I would be like cool, kind of

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like Ashley, this isn't for me, but I'm glad it exists. I

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had fun watching it, and I'm
going to enjoy hearing young people talk about

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it because one thing I've done is
I'm scouring kind of TikTok and Twitter and

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things like that, and there is
a large number of people who absolutely love

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the show, and as far as
I can, talent's mostly queer kids who

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are twenty five and under. But
it did not feel like Willow to me,

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and the slightest it felt like people
who either on some level we're kind

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of wanting to make fun of Willow
or just didn't get Willow. And again,

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like, you know, we all
might sound like we're grup the old

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fogies on this, and that's fine, And I think I think in a

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couple of years maybe or a couple
of months, I I watched again and

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just divorced it from Willow in my
head at all, and then I might

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enjoy it some more, even though
a lot of parts are going to make

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me roll my eyes, like it's
never gonna be my favorite. But I

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kind of feel like if they had
just made this, if they just made

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it not connected to Willow at all, I would have liked it a lot

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more. And to that kind of
disjointedness you were talking about, Mark,

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Like, there's other projects that I've
seen where the one that I most often

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comes wrote my mind for me is
Fury Road, where it's the same people

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who made Mad Max and they wanted
to tell it as a completely separate story.

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But in the studios we're like,
why don't we just make it a

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mad you know, Mad Max sequel, and so they kind of squeezed Mad

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Max into it, but he's not
the focus of the story. I wonder

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if that happened here. I wonder
if someone had a kind of like quirky

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a little bit all the wall still
in music fantasy story they wanted to tell,

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and you know, people got involved
with it and they're like, okay,

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but what if we make it a
Willow story? What if like hey,

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you know, uh work Davis wants
to do this again? Like it

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because you're right. It felt like
four or five different set of the writers

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doing totally try. You guys know, from the chat, I was probably

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the most positive one early on.
I really tried, and I was going

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into it with a greight attitude that
like this is not for me, but

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like you can't get around bad story, bad plot. Like I feel like,

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you know, the scene where Kit
gets like pummeled by that big boulder

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or whatever and gets knocked into the
water. I feel like that was kind

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of like me watching the show because
I'm like, okay, it has I

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know there's some problems, but like
it has this, and it has this

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and has this, and then all
of a sudden, the trolls start talking,

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and then that big boulder just knocked
me down and I never really recovered

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from that. The trolls. The
trolls, to me was one of the

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most like fantasy. No, they
could have even reasoned that away by saying

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the chrome gave them intelligence and language, Like how easy would that have been,

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But they're like, no, let's
just not explain it. We're not

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going to give you a summary of
the show Wikipedia we'll have some of that.

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And there's a part of the problem
I thought is that there's way too

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many twists and turns to really be
able to fully summarize. But for people

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have no idea what we're talking about
here. Our heroes get captured by trolls.

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We've seen this before, but they
talk as though they're kind of like

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level, sound like David krem but
also mixed in with yeah, like and

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it's just there were so many things
about the dialogue like that. And it's

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funny because I like what you said, Katie at the writing, because because

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all over TikTok, I've just watched
so many different videos about that that beautiful

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scene of Jade confessing her love to
Kit and and the two of them getting

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so close to kissing. Thank god
they finally did, and that would beautifully

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written like it was wonderful. And
then you also have the Grand Sorceress,

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the one who like isn't indebted to
the worm, who's been our enemy since

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twenty years ago. She's in the
middle of the fight and she's something like,

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you know, take that base at
it at the end too, just

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yeah, I left, I left, I left the room. Yeah,

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like he's eternal bitch or whatever it
is. And I will say you mentioned

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the like inclusion of these like different
you know, different different gender and sexuality

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series or categories, which I really
like. And actually Jade and Kit I

205
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felt had the best chemistry of any
of the romances, and I genuinely liked

206
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watching them rustle around and make out. If you took that out of the

207
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show and made a different show to
your eld words, yea and not this

208
00:14:58.600 --> 00:15:01.039
though, Oh no, So I
I was just gonna say something by saying

209
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they had the best chemistry. Do
you mean that they had chemistry? Yeah,

210
00:15:05.320 --> 00:15:07.639
they had the only chemistry. Yes, yes, I mean it was

211
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like I said this to Ashley today
because I actually just finished the last episode

212
00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:16.960
today and I was like, it
is so infuriating that Graydon is in love

213
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with her among all these It's like
every single character has to be in love,

214
00:15:22.200 --> 00:15:26.159
can't we have? Like the friendship's
story between mad Martigan and Willow is

215
00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:31.759
the most beautiful thing in the original. It like, hands down for me.

216
00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:35.360
Why does it always have to be
a love story? And it's just

217
00:15:35.480 --> 00:15:37.600
like, I mean, Mark,
you already said like pick a lane,

218
00:15:37.799 --> 00:15:43.480
but then it's just like there's no
variety at all. Well to double down

219
00:15:43.480 --> 00:15:46.919
on that. The whole point of
a Laura leaving to go on this quest

220
00:15:48.039 --> 00:15:50.120
is because she's so in love Oh
my god, Prince Eric. And then

221
00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:54.600
two days in she's like, oh
maybe I'm gonna flirt and mess this guy's

222
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head up completely. I'm like,
what are we even doing here? Then?

223
00:15:58.759 --> 00:16:00.840
Where are we going? We know? She's like, we know she's

224
00:16:00.840 --> 00:16:04.480
being faked out and he's possessed and
she says, I won't marry you,

225
00:16:04.519 --> 00:16:08.399
but like that's not him. He's
possessed. So you're gonna say, like,

226
00:16:08.480 --> 00:16:11.440
I'm not into you anymore. You're
creepy, like too, Yeah,

227
00:16:11.480 --> 00:16:15.320
she just puts the problems with A
Laura Dannon. I think when that Chrome

228
00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:18.559
called her out at the end and
called her a boop, I was,

229
00:16:18.840 --> 00:16:23.679
can go someone finally is that it? M someone said it thinking it,

230
00:16:26.200 --> 00:16:29.480
Yeah, I know, I think
that's super fair. And I I did

231
00:16:29.639 --> 00:16:32.879
like the friendship between Kit and A
Laura, and I thought there was an

232
00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:37.320
interesting dynamic there of you know,
I'm I'm sad that my father seemed to

233
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always be choosing you, which was
little like. I liked that point because

234
00:16:44.279 --> 00:16:47.600
it's sort of I think she had
some legitimate reasons for feeling bitter about that

235
00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:52.000
sort of Willow also not choose his
child over a Laura. It was a

236
00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:56.399
little like, what okay, that's
not one of the lessons of the movie

237
00:16:56.399 --> 00:16:59.879
Fair. It was a little too
abrupt for me. I would have liked

238
00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:03.640
friendship to ease in a little bit
more. Nobody was nice to Willow,

239
00:17:03.839 --> 00:17:07.200
and they made Willow like I don't
know. I was like, I would

240
00:17:07.240 --> 00:17:11.160
like to now know exactly what happened
in the between years, because it doesn't

241
00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:15.039
seem like it was very good.
And Willow never became a sorcerer, Like

242
00:17:15.119 --> 00:17:18.039
what a what a letdown? But
like but also is he. They didn't

243
00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:22.640
really explain it because he's doing all
that. And by the way, Kaya

244
00:17:22.759 --> 00:17:25.599
died and we're not going to tell
you what happened there. Where's the sign?

245
00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:30.319
Way, where's the little boy?
You went off to do something?

246
00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:33.440
Willow never became a sorcerer except he
did and he but he also invented a

247
00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:41.079
flamethrower and and um, I'm not
a sorcerer. I'm just lucky. I'm

248
00:17:41.079 --> 00:17:41.799
like, dude, Then, how
did you kill all those guys? Up?

249
00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:45.720
Yeah, You're like, I'm gonna
go kill these guys? How are

250
00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:48.559
you? How are you doing all
this magic? Yeah? And how did

251
00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:52.720
you like the zippers? Yes?
Ashley, thank you for saying that.

252
00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:56.839
I lost my mind. Laura,
Like it was one thing in the last

253
00:17:56.839 --> 00:17:59.559
two episodes when they were doing close
ups of her, she had a jean

254
00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:02.519
jacket on in a green knit turtleneck
and I was like, what is this

255
00:18:02.599 --> 00:18:03.799
the Last of Us? The Walking
Dead? What am I watching? It

256
00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:07.160
could be a scene from anything right
now? They got all of their comus

257
00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:11.480
from which dot com And I am
sorry if that's harsh, but I just

258
00:18:11.559 --> 00:18:14.440
came off House of the Dragon,
So you got to think of like,

259
00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:18.680
it's so funny. I don't see
that. I don't see costumes, Like

260
00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:22.799
I just don't know any of it
until Ashley tells me, or like the

261
00:18:22.839 --> 00:18:26.680
hair, because I'm just like into
like the relationships and the dialogue thoughts.

262
00:18:26.920 --> 00:18:30.799
I just don't even notice Willow rolled
up. I go to everybody, I

263
00:18:30.920 --> 00:18:37.559
was like, did Willow just roll
up in ash gosh bagosh overalls? I

264
00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:38.519
think, ket what you just said. It's so perfect though, because what

265
00:18:38.599 --> 00:18:42.839
it like, I'm like you all
four of us are noticing different things about

266
00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:47.759
this show, and we're all fighting
things. We zippers were invented at like

267
00:18:47.759 --> 00:18:53.079
this, like after flight, like
after like it was like they weren't used

268
00:18:53.160 --> 00:19:00.720
until like the nineteen hundreds, Like
yeah, but that's all so like Willow

269
00:19:00.759 --> 00:19:06.160
has a flamethrower and I was doing
it like a shotgun cape, Yeah,

270
00:19:06.200 --> 00:19:08.880
like where was that earlier? But
I've got to save it? And yeah,

271
00:19:08.920 --> 00:19:11.880
where who was carrying that this whole
time? Where did it come from?

272
00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:22.319
Where did it go? And like
it's funny because this might open of

273
00:19:22.359 --> 00:19:23.160
a whole other can of worms that
I'm not trying to go into. But

274
00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:26.680
I'm just gonna make this illusion quickly
and get a whole bunch of hate mail.

275
00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:30.039
As I was watching all the stuff
with Willow, I was thinking about

276
00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:33.920
the conversations that happened a lot about
the last Jedi, and like how there's

277
00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:36.319
a lot of people who are like, oh my god, Luke would never

278
00:19:36.359 --> 00:19:38.200
do that. How can you do
this to Luke? And I was in

279
00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:41.279
my head. I was like,
on the one hand, I now get

280
00:19:41.319 --> 00:19:45.640
where they're coming from, even though
I still think they're wrong, But also

281
00:19:45.799 --> 00:19:48.480
was like, what you think Luke
had character assassination? What about my boy?

282
00:19:48.519 --> 00:19:52.799
Willow? Willow had source sho was
being all me and I was like,

283
00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:59.359
what is happening well? And like
the dynamic between him and Laura bothered

284
00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:03.880
me because it's like, on one
hand, him turning into a cantankerous sorcerer

285
00:20:03.160 --> 00:20:07.559
is okay, but I think he
needs to be very good if he's going

286
00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:12.039
to be like a like grumpy sorcerer, because he know, young kids today

287
00:20:12.119 --> 00:20:17.160
they just don't follow the guidelines,
you know. But it's not like that.

288
00:20:17.319 --> 00:20:21.799
And she's kind of a bitch to
him, and he's not very nurturing

289
00:20:21.880 --> 00:20:27.440
to her, and it's not very
enjoyable to watch them progress. And then

290
00:20:27.759 --> 00:20:32.640
all of a sudden, she goes
for being terrible to like superpower. Yeah,

291
00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:37.039
and then like the dynamic switched from
her being horrible with Willow to her

292
00:20:37.319 --> 00:20:47.440
not kid um, what's Jade?
Wait, who's the red j anyway,

293
00:20:47.559 --> 00:20:51.880
mad Martigan's daughter. They were just
horrible, and then she was just continuously

294
00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:56.279
made her for like two episodes,
and I'm like, I can't wait for

295
00:20:56.319 --> 00:21:02.000
this crone to take her out.
I just can't wait. Yeah, I

296
00:21:02.039 --> 00:21:04.480
think the show helped me actually realize
one thing I really liked about the movie,

297
00:21:04.519 --> 00:21:08.359
which is that, in general,
I don't like Chosen One plots because

298
00:21:08.359 --> 00:21:11.799
I think they're a little bit boring. You don't really understand why is it

299
00:21:11.839 --> 00:21:15.920
that this character is opposed to everyone
else is like the great One and so

300
00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:19.720
worthy in all this, And the
movie of Willow actually kind of subverts the

301
00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:26.319
Chosen One idea because in the movie, all they are doing is protecting her,

302
00:21:26.839 --> 00:21:30.359
protecting her potential for the future or
the idea that she could be this

303
00:21:30.599 --> 00:21:34.039
tool to be used. But in
the end, like the Baby doesn't really

304
00:21:34.039 --> 00:21:40.519
do much, and when Willow like
saves the day with a great like final

305
00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:42.839
act, it's this act of like, you know, Showman magic, not

306
00:21:42.920 --> 00:21:48.839
actual magic. In a way,
that's brilliant and trickery, and we saw

307
00:21:48.920 --> 00:21:51.839
none of that from Willow. We
saw none of that sort of inventiveness and

308
00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:57.039
cleverness and instead and like instead,
we just saw so much from the other

309
00:21:57.119 --> 00:22:02.319
characters, you know, all of
them doing awesome things. But yeah,

310
00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:07.240
Laura is just supposed to be this
great wizard because because yeah, Ashley and

311
00:22:07.240 --> 00:22:10.119
I were watching a couple of the
episodes together and I kept being like,

312
00:22:10.359 --> 00:22:12.680
oh, that's from the Hobbit,
Like that's you know, like there it

313
00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:17.279
was so derivative of so many different
other stories. And then like at the

314
00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:21.200
last episode, it was very Harry
Potter, you know, like when they're

315
00:22:21.240 --> 00:22:23.880
doing this the girl who lived come
to die and then they even had the

316
00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:32.640
like bread and green energy and I'm
like seriously and kept through expect the paternal

317
00:22:32.680 --> 00:22:38.839
mane, and we were dested.
It's exactly yeah, And I like I

318
00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:42.640
kept waiting for them to be that
moment of like some trick or something.

319
00:22:44.079 --> 00:22:47.279
It was just doing that we're both
shooting both to each other body and then

320
00:22:47.319 --> 00:22:51.359
she kept her face. That's like
I was like, well, she kept

321
00:22:51.400 --> 00:22:53.160
doing the lookdown and then look up, and then when she looks up,

322
00:22:53.200 --> 00:22:57.759
you know, she's getting She's like, I'm gonna just stick to you to

323
00:22:57.799 --> 00:23:03.559
death. And I was like,
what's happening? How does the magic work?

324
00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:10.119
Like we spent six episodes of Laura
trying to learn magic words and say

325
00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:15.200
them right, and then we don't
need to say magic words anymore. Graydon

326
00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:19.799
can one shot either. He's never
cast a spell before, but he one

327
00:23:19.880 --> 00:23:26.519
shots one of the like most powerful
beings on the planet out of the air

328
00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:30.440
and it explodes, and then it's
just like everyone's just finger gunning the magic

329
00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:34.839
at each other from now on.
She's like, it was like, you

330
00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:37.599
got me, you know you didn't
I have a force field, you know,

331
00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:40.720
I like to find me. Grayson
used magic. I was like,

332
00:23:40.759 --> 00:23:42.599
wait a minute, what when did
when did we learn that? He was?

333
00:23:42.680 --> 00:23:45.759
I know me too. I'm like, wait, he's time. I

334
00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:48.240
was like when. I don't think
I've been watching the show at all,

335
00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:55.319
but I will say the number one
thing on the list of things I did

336
00:23:55.359 --> 00:24:00.880
not need was a nickname for Matt
Martigan. No, he's not mad.

337
00:24:02.319 --> 00:24:07.160
I'm sorry, guys, that's the
worst part of the show. Okay,

338
00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:12.039
that's number one for me. Do
you wonder my understanding is that this is

339
00:24:12.039 --> 00:24:15.640
a project that people have been kicked
They should have kicked it around a little

340
00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:21.519
more time. And I do well
also true, I do wonder if there

341
00:24:21.599 --> 00:24:23.960
was some version in which, because
Val Kilmer's surgery and all that, I

342
00:24:23.960 --> 00:24:27.440
think it was fairly recent, like
the last three or four years. Um,

343
00:24:27.720 --> 00:24:30.240
but I wonder if there was some
version of which they thought they would

344
00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:33.880
be able to have mad Martigan,
you know, as a like they find

345
00:24:33.960 --> 00:24:37.519
him in that final dungeon and they'll
Kilmer's on for half an episode or something

346
00:24:37.519 --> 00:24:42.000
like that. Um, I don't
even know how they got very similar tothing

347
00:24:42.079 --> 00:24:45.480
we meant to say on the last
episode is, um U should go watch

348
00:24:45.640 --> 00:24:52.319
Val Kilmer's documentary on I believe it's
Amazon Prime. Yeah, it's very good.

349
00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:56.160
It's about everything he's going through right
now, and you know, it's

350
00:24:56.440 --> 00:24:59.920
very it's hard to watch, but
I think it's very important if expressive.

351
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:03.720
You're a fan of him. But
his son does a lot of voice work

352
00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:07.960
for him, and he narrates,
Oh, that's awesome. That reminds me

353
00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:11.599
of something else I wanted to say
last time, and I forgot when we

354
00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:15.680
were talking about the dragon the eber
Cisk is that this is just so funny

355
00:25:15.720 --> 00:25:19.200
because if you're a George Lucas Lucas
films fan, like you know that George

356
00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:22.759
Lucas is crazy and he's got a
lot of ideas that need to be like

357
00:25:22.920 --> 00:25:26.720
brought back. Originally he wanted that
dragon to have fifteen heads, and that's

358
00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:36.119
what he went to Phil tip it
about and feels like, how about Yeah,

359
00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:41.680
I just thought that was so George
Lucas, and like, I have

360
00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:44.400
a positive thing about the movie that
I'm gonna get to try to jump in

361
00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:48.319
with earlier, but just on that
dragon creature, you know, we all

362
00:25:48.359 --> 00:25:52.279
poked fun at like that. The
CGI is not great in the original,

363
00:25:52.279 --> 00:25:56.640
but in that regard, it's charming, Like it makes it kind of like

364
00:25:56.680 --> 00:25:59.119
a fun part of the movie,
even though it's because it's the kind of

365
00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:02.400
movie that we love and we love
to poke fun at. And so when

366
00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:03.960
at the very end they show you, like, you know, the hordes

367
00:26:04.039 --> 00:26:07.759
of enemies that the worm has,
which I have some thoughts as the person

368
00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:11.799
wh plays Vampire the Masquerade, but
that's a whole other story and we're all

369
00:26:11.880 --> 00:26:15.039
the Apocalypse, and so there's just
a very clearly CGI version of that dragon

370
00:26:15.079 --> 00:26:18.400
in the background, looking just like
a cool dragon. I was like,

371
00:26:19.039 --> 00:26:22.400
no, like give it to us
with the cheesy effects. I don't give

372
00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:26.440
it to us. Make something else. I don't know why that bothered me,

373
00:26:26.519 --> 00:26:30.319
but again it was just like and
then like they're all leaving and they're

374
00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:33.480
like, well, isn't isn't that
dragon technically like still down there shown,

375
00:26:33.599 --> 00:26:37.079
we just go kill it right now, and they're like, nay, it'll

376
00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:38.759
come for us. Yeah, look, I have too many other things to

377
00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:45.640
worrying about right now. And how
many how many group shots of them looking

378
00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:48.599
away from the camera doing any million? I feel like it was like eight

379
00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:55.839
times per episodes many love stories stories. Yeah, yeah, I will say

380
00:26:56.119 --> 00:27:00.799
I kind of like grating in A
Laura because the idea that I got from

381
00:27:00.799 --> 00:27:02.920
it. First of all, I
just found Grayden to be a really charming

382
00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:08.400
character. He was one of my
favorite characters that felt very I was excited

383
00:27:08.440 --> 00:27:11.599
that they killed him because that was
like make it matter. It would make

384
00:27:11.640 --> 00:27:15.799
it matter. Sorry. Well,
and here's the thing is that for me,

385
00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:18.599
I thought part of what they were
trying to tell a story of is

386
00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:23.000
that, you know, a Laura
never had actual serious feelings with the prince.

387
00:27:23.160 --> 00:27:27.319
She had, you know, basically
young girl who's dating a celebrity like

388
00:27:27.599 --> 00:27:30.799
young could be a person of any
gender, but you know, also just

389
00:27:30.839 --> 00:27:34.039
combined with like you had your first
two dates and some great makeout sessions and

390
00:27:34.119 --> 00:27:38.000
some one or two interesting conversations,
and you're nineteen years old and you think

391
00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:41.559
that you found the absolute love of
your life. And so, in my

392
00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:47.160
mind actually bothered me that that she
started to go for Graydon and I thought

393
00:27:47.200 --> 00:27:52.640
they had some really nice chemistry and
connection. Um, And so I did

394
00:27:52.759 --> 00:27:56.960
like that part. I think where
when though they got to the brother and

395
00:27:56.000 --> 00:28:00.680
it was a whole Like she even
says it when points Kit asks her,

396
00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:03.759
like did you not marry him because
he's possessed or because he's a little naive?

397
00:28:04.160 --> 00:28:07.359
Like, and that kind of goes
you were saying before, Katie.

398
00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:11.759
Like, on the one hand,
her growth could be that she's rejecting the

399
00:28:11.799 --> 00:28:15.960
prince who she was with before,
who she thought was amazing, and he

400
00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:18.839
didn't even remember her name because to
him, she's just you know, the

401
00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:25.640
girl of the week or the day. Um. So yeah, I liked

402
00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:29.160
their story. I liked where it
went. If someone has to get you

403
00:28:29.200 --> 00:28:30.680
know, killed off in a romance, I'm really glad it wasn't in the

404
00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:34.319
queer romance. But I also was
pretty unhappy with where they where they wound

405
00:28:34.400 --> 00:28:37.440
up with it, because I thought
once they did the whole like he turns

406
00:28:37.480 --> 00:28:38.759
evil thing and then all of a
sudden he's a magician. And I don't

407
00:28:38.759 --> 00:28:41.359
think it was that he turned to
evil or that it was naive or that

408
00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:45.839
he was naive. I think it
was that he cut his hair because he

409
00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:53.519
had with the long hair. I
agree, M yeah, that's fair too.

410
00:28:53.720 --> 00:28:56.119
And they even gave they even harassed
him about it. Yeah, when

411
00:28:56.160 --> 00:29:00.039
they all just drugs in that episode
and they played Clemson and over terrible covery,

412
00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:03.680
Yeah for the kids, I was
like, what is going on?

413
00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:14.119
Like, sorry, go ahead?
Was it just me or did the because

414
00:29:14.119 --> 00:29:17.920
so here was my story with the
show. I don't know. Like I

415
00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:21.200
watched the first like use Katie,
I watched the first couple of episodes.

416
00:29:21.240 --> 00:29:22.440
It was. It was definitely into
it, was enjoying it, rolling my

417
00:29:22.440 --> 00:29:26.680
eyes at some things, and got
to the fourth episode and remembered that I

418
00:29:26.680 --> 00:29:30.039
didn't want to binge it all now
because well, actually know I got the

419
00:29:30.079 --> 00:29:30.880
fourth episode and that was all there
was, and I was like, I

420
00:29:30.920 --> 00:29:34.599
want more. And then we all
started talking and kind of trading about all

421
00:29:34.599 --> 00:29:37.440
the things you didn't like, and
I was like, oh, yep,

422
00:29:37.559 --> 00:29:40.799
that's that's true. That's fair,
that's fair. And then like I had

423
00:29:40.839 --> 00:29:42.359
like a week of not thinking about
it, and I went back to start

424
00:29:42.400 --> 00:29:48.279
binging the last three episodes last last
starting last night, and then finishing today.

425
00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:53.160
An episode five is really rough,
Like I think it's the worst episode

426
00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:56.480
by far, and so coming back
to that, Okay, I think that

427
00:29:56.559 --> 00:30:03.880
is the Crimson Clover episode. You
know, there's just it was just like,

428
00:30:03.960 --> 00:30:06.720
oh, and there was a bunch
of very unachronistic kind of things that

429
00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:11.039
they were saying in the episode.
It was just rough, and it was

430
00:30:11.079 --> 00:30:15.559
just like I don't think I had
noticed how off the music at the end

431
00:30:15.640 --> 00:30:18.640
we had been in part maybe because
I don't think it was happening. It

432
00:30:18.680 --> 00:30:23.319
was often happening, like in the
last few moments and then the credits recovers

433
00:30:23.359 --> 00:30:30.799
and it was done, and making
Shade Kale's daughter like, we don't have

434
00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:36.160
to keep doing that. We don't
have to. Everybody is related to everybody

435
00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:40.640
from the first movie. Everybody.
Everybody has a weird, dark backstory that

436
00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:45.559
we have to keep track of,
right and Kale General Kale, who in

437
00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:52.200
the movie is admittedly not super flesh. He's mysterious. He's the Bulba Fette

438
00:30:52.279 --> 00:30:56.759
of the first movie. But then
thank You I just came up with I

439
00:30:56.759 --> 00:30:59.839
think it is pretty good. But
he's like, he's like this brilliant je

440
00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:03.039
role. He's like the super badass. And then it's like he's the first

441
00:31:03.079 --> 00:31:10.880
of these frigging bone barbarian guys.
Why why how does that make sense?

442
00:31:10.920 --> 00:31:15.079
If he was the first he I
mean he died pretty quickly so and in

443
00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:17.759
the service of the queen. So
when did he have time to go start

444
00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:22.039
this bone brigade? I don't know. Yeah, I guess every town when

445
00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:25.000
he went to looking for that baby, he was making his own babies.

446
00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:27.960
If he nobody got turned into an
animal, nobody got turned into pigs.

447
00:31:29.400 --> 00:31:30.920
There was no talking, I know. That's what I think. That's what

448
00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:37.240
bought me out the most. Magic
wasn't cool. It wasn't like in the

449
00:31:37.359 --> 00:31:41.960
in the movie, like with Willow
really struggling and he was just so likable

450
00:31:42.160 --> 00:31:48.680
and innocent and you really were rooting
for him, and it just it just

451
00:31:48.759 --> 00:31:52.039
didn't have that and like just to
not I don't want to harp too much

452
00:31:52.079 --> 00:31:53.480
on the grade and the Laura thing, but like, there's a way they

453
00:31:53.559 --> 00:31:56.680
could have done that. Maybe that
I would have liked it, but the

454
00:31:56.720 --> 00:32:01.240
fact that he was seemingly in love
with her right away bothered me. Like

455
00:32:01.240 --> 00:32:07.119
what if they had just really become
friends, he's an unlike will never get

456
00:32:06.279 --> 00:32:09.359
done anymore. And that's what I
would have liked to see it right there.

457
00:32:09.400 --> 00:32:15.519
Friendships are great, and maybe they
could have hinted at a possible like

458
00:32:15.759 --> 00:32:19.200
romance later, but there's no nuance. There's no subtlety. It's like,

459
00:32:19.359 --> 00:32:22.079
oh, you're amazing, and she's
like, oh, yeah, that's weird

460
00:32:22.119 --> 00:32:25.359
because like we're going to save my
boyfriend, you know, like and then

461
00:32:25.400 --> 00:32:29.279
the whole time I just feel awkward
about it, like he was just this

462
00:32:29.400 --> 00:32:31.720
love struck puppy that she had no
interest in. And then all of a

463
00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:37.480
sudden, you're like, does she
they have no chemistry? Like they could

464
00:32:37.519 --> 00:32:44.319
have made that like a fun friendship
that could have been making you go maybe,

465
00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:47.400
but they just there's no subtlety.
Yeah, I didn't see it from

466
00:32:47.599 --> 00:32:52.440
a Laura's side until Willow was like, you have to use your conflicted emotions

467
00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:55.680
about Graydon. You have to embrace
that, Oh, you're never going to

468
00:32:55.720 --> 00:33:01.000
become a Sorceress's right, And then
they're like, yeah, he's powerful because

469
00:33:01.039 --> 00:33:07.160
he's got angst. This is a
pretty power of thanks. And his backstory

470
00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:10.759
was just too much like we had
like make him a simple character. He

471
00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:14.720
doesn't have the bat possessed. I
killed my brother and then I possessed again,

472
00:33:14.759 --> 00:33:15.359
and then you got to get it. I'm like, wait a minute,

473
00:33:15.519 --> 00:33:22.680
just haven't be possessed? No,
ga, that was fine. Yeah,

474
00:33:22.759 --> 00:33:25.240
yeah, the back especially where I
was going before when I talked about

475
00:33:25.279 --> 00:33:29.480
them being like with a Laura having
her like you know, obsession. He

476
00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:32.319
feelings for the prince. You know, he also was in They were both

477
00:33:32.319 --> 00:33:37.240
in a similar situation of being like
pledged to people. They really weren't actually

478
00:33:37.279 --> 00:33:39.200
that interested in it. He mean
more so with his forced marriage. You

479
00:33:39.279 --> 00:33:42.279
kind of have talked to me out
of liking it, Like I say,

480
00:33:42.519 --> 00:33:45.640
I know, it's fine, I
know, I'm sorry, don't do that.

481
00:33:45.720 --> 00:33:47.839
You stick to your guns. Well, even he the second he met

482
00:33:47.880 --> 00:33:54.160
the Crone as as Chick from in
her gown from David Bridles Prom Queen section,

483
00:33:54.359 --> 00:33:59.640
Yes, or what the heck was
that? That was a prom dress

484
00:33:59.720 --> 00:34:04.160
from nineteen ninety seven. It had
the lace with the things on it and

485
00:34:04.200 --> 00:34:07.240
the pleats in the front. I
feel it within to be honest, I

486
00:34:07.279 --> 00:34:09.719
feel like i'd wear that. I'd
wear it too, like that dress I

487
00:34:09.719 --> 00:34:15.519
thought it was, but yeah,
it doesn't fit the Evil Fantasy Drive.

488
00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:17.360
Here's what I think happened there.
And I also, yeah, it's not

489
00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:20.920
that I still like the idea of
the two of them, but I think

490
00:34:20.920 --> 00:34:22.320
I agree with you, Katie,
it could have been much better done.

491
00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:27.519
Agree with everybody there. I think
what Katie said about the writers also happened

492
00:34:27.519 --> 00:34:31.440
with the costuming because every dot about
ninety percent of the costuming budget went to

493
00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:37.800
putting Kit in this incredibly badass set
of armor that goes on her Iron Man

494
00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:40.880
style, which makes no sense for
the technology of the day, but sure

495
00:34:40.920 --> 00:34:46.000
it's magic whatever. It looked amazing, and every time it was really cool.

496
00:34:46.159 --> 00:34:51.280
But I also kind of felt like
that was anticlimactic because they built this

497
00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:54.320
thing up this whole time and then
like, oh, yeah, it looks

498
00:34:54.320 --> 00:35:00.000
really cool. She gets to be
the WY two. Now we have two

499
00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:02.440
number one, and that's all she
ever wanted. And I was like,

500
00:35:02.480 --> 00:35:07.880
oh, everybody gets a trophy the
most protective armor in the world doesn't have

501
00:35:07.960 --> 00:35:14.000
a helmet. It doesn't need a
helmet mark. It's like it's the helmet

502
00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:17.960
is invisible. Why does it need
anything? Then? Look, all I'm

503
00:35:17.960 --> 00:35:22.719
going to say is the look that
Jade gives her is so perfect when she's

504
00:35:22.760 --> 00:35:25.320
in that like, because she looks
damn good. I do like them.

505
00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:30.000
I think they're I would watch I
would read a fan fick about them.

506
00:35:30.519 --> 00:35:34.480
I wouldn't watch like a little,
you know, short film about them.

507
00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:37.760
I thought their chemistry was great,
and I really like that actress who plays

508
00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:40.880
Kid. I think she's funny.
I think her timing is good. I

509
00:35:40.880 --> 00:35:45.000
could see her doing really well in
the future of her career. I could

510
00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:49.400
not see past the highlights. I
didn't even see. I didn't even notice

511
00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:53.119
them until you told so let's connect
take two seconds. The hair everyone had

512
00:35:53.199 --> 00:35:57.920
highlights. A Laura Danon was just
like I have one streak of bread,

513
00:35:58.039 --> 00:36:00.960
and then in the next episode her
entire hair was red. I guess it

514
00:36:01.039 --> 00:36:07.199
was your magic urn. You could
have done it over eight episodes is slowly

515
00:36:07.519 --> 00:36:10.000
change it, not one lock,
and then be like surprised and no one

516
00:36:10.039 --> 00:36:15.639
acknowledged it. Like I was wondering
like nots like, oh I like your

517
00:36:15.639 --> 00:36:19.239
hair. God, I wondered if
I'd forgot. She was like, I

518
00:36:19.320 --> 00:36:22.880
like it blind because it's funny.
How like, because there's so much being

519
00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:25.039
thrown at you, a lot of
which doesn't make sense. I totally forgot

520
00:36:25.079 --> 00:36:28.760
and we just talked about it.
Now that they had made a big deal

521
00:36:28.760 --> 00:36:30.440
about that suit of armor, I
thought it totally came out of nowhere,

522
00:36:31.519 --> 00:36:37.480
which oh yeah, there's just too
many things to focus. Kept stabbing him,

523
00:36:37.480 --> 00:36:39.800
say that's what Mad Martigan was.
After they were like, there was

524
00:36:39.840 --> 00:36:45.440
some fighting between Christian Slater and Boorman, and I kind of wish Christian Slater

525
00:36:45.559 --> 00:36:50.840
would have hung out for a little
while. Yeah he's cool, yeah,

526
00:36:51.159 --> 00:36:54.480
yeah, but that was like bringing
my ultimate fantasy men together because at that

527
00:36:54.519 --> 00:36:59.559
time I was in love with Mad
Martigan and I was in love with Robin

528
00:36:59.599 --> 00:37:04.920
Hood's all me. He was so
high Rod. You know what I think

529
00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:12.400
about Will Will right? Yeah,
remember when um Heaven Customer like flies in

530
00:37:12.440 --> 00:37:16.119
the catapult or whatever, and He's
like, f me cleared it. It

531
00:37:16.280 --> 00:37:20.920
was just I'm like, oh,
I get he said your bad boy.

532
00:37:21.400 --> 00:37:23.880
I was like, I want him
to be my boyfriend. Actually, I

533
00:37:23.960 --> 00:37:29.239
gotta say I am deeply surprised because
as someone who ran with a lot of

534
00:37:29.280 --> 00:37:35.679
goth type people was myself and there's
yeah, that's like, wait, Heather,

535
00:37:35.800 --> 00:37:37.199
isn't what you think of Christians Later
is? Because that's the one where

536
00:37:37.519 --> 00:37:42.599
all the women in my generation I'm
a nerd, I'm also a nerd,

537
00:37:42.679 --> 00:37:45.039
so I will take them at their
gothy, but I will take the pumpkin

538
00:37:45.039 --> 00:37:47.440
pants and cod piece as well.
I will not kick that out of bad

539
00:37:47.599 --> 00:37:52.480
man. I was very happy to
see Christians Later as well. I was

540
00:37:52.519 --> 00:37:55.760
also very obsessed with him as a
child. I remember renting the movie Cuffs

541
00:37:57.519 --> 00:38:00.599
from Blockbuster. Um, but the
fact that he was like I talked in

542
00:38:00.599 --> 00:38:05.119
the in the movie episode about how
cool the names were and his name was

543
00:38:05.199 --> 00:38:08.920
Alagash like that that it's like a
I just kept things a year. Yeah,

544
00:38:08.960 --> 00:38:13.199
it's a brewery that's named after like
a Native American word, Like why

545
00:38:13.360 --> 00:38:15.280
is this guy named Alagash? That's
just I don't know. I mean,

546
00:38:15.320 --> 00:38:20.639
if somebody was drunk on white Ale
that day, And if we want to

547
00:38:20.679 --> 00:38:23.199
talk about names, can we mention
the fact that we've all these gorgeous very

548
00:38:23.320 --> 00:38:29.079
like Welsh Elvin kind of set old
English kind of sounding place names. And

549
00:38:29.119 --> 00:38:31.960
then one of the areas that there's
great conflict over is just called Cashmir,

550
00:38:32.719 --> 00:38:37.159
which it's spelled a little different and
it's pronounced a little bit different, but

551
00:38:37.320 --> 00:38:40.480
basically sounds exactly like the region that
Indian Pakistan have been fighting over for the

552
00:38:40.559 --> 00:38:46.840
last fifty years. I know that
was so bizarre, too weird. Back

553
00:38:46.840 --> 00:38:50.239
to Christians later though, like,
what do you mean he was locked in

554
00:38:50.280 --> 00:38:53.199
that cage for twenty years? And
that didn't make sense at all. So

555
00:38:53.360 --> 00:38:58.400
you're capturing people to turn them into
this goo that you need to just hang

556
00:38:58.440 --> 00:39:01.280
out and continue trolls, But why
would you keep him? Then? Yeah,

557
00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:05.679
just him for twenty years? Totally
fine, healthier. He did not

558
00:39:05.800 --> 00:39:10.480
look like emaciated and under fed.
He ate. Yeah, those trolls were

559
00:39:10.519 --> 00:39:15.000
so like I remember when like they
showed they teased the trolls in the one

560
00:39:15.039 --> 00:39:17.840
episode before they came out and saw
you saw them full blown in the in

561
00:39:17.880 --> 00:39:22.280
the next episode. I was like, oh, the trolls have like armor

562
00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:24.280
and weapons and stuff. I was
like, all right, I guess they're

563
00:39:24.320 --> 00:39:28.840
they're smart trolls. Whatever. Fine, they're different trolls. These are like

564
00:39:28.960 --> 00:39:32.000
gray trolls as opposed to the Black
Trolls, and then they came out yeah

565
00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:34.920
with the clipboard. It was like, oh hi guys, yes, No,

566
00:39:35.079 --> 00:39:37.719
we were like, what the hell
this is silly? I was like,

567
00:39:37.800 --> 00:39:39.119
Katie, I am going to flip. I know. You know what

568
00:39:39.159 --> 00:39:44.199
it reminded me of is at the
end of Spaceballs when they do that Planet

569
00:39:44.199 --> 00:39:46.400
of the Ape spoof and they're on
the beach. He's like, oh,

570
00:39:46.599 --> 00:39:51.840
no, Spaceballs there, I go
to the neighborhood or whatever it is.

571
00:39:51.840 --> 00:39:55.480
That's exactly what I thought was actually
in terms of the pacing of a show,

572
00:39:57.039 --> 00:39:58.960
Like I said, I would like
it a lot more if it wasn't

573
00:39:58.960 --> 00:40:02.880
well connected, I still wouldn't love
it. Like they have two episodes in

574
00:40:02.920 --> 00:40:09.679
which our heroes get captured and held
as prisoners for a while, and they

575
00:40:09.719 --> 00:40:14.239
were back to back, and it
just felt like that of the pacing of

576
00:40:14.239 --> 00:40:17.599
a show doing that twice in a
row and both times having it be like

577
00:40:17.719 --> 00:40:22.440
kind of comedic people who are doing
it. Can we talk about the round

578
00:40:22.559 --> 00:40:27.440
robin back to back with Kit and
a Laura in the last episode where they're

579
00:40:27.440 --> 00:40:30.639
like you want to take this one? Yeah, and they keeps turning around,

580
00:40:30.760 --> 00:40:34.159
you know, to talk about Yeah, nobody would walk into anywhere like

581
00:40:34.199 --> 00:40:37.079
that. You don't mean to guard
her back. There's like a zillion bad

582
00:40:37.119 --> 00:40:39.840
guys. Just turn around and talk
to your brother at the same time,

583
00:40:40.199 --> 00:40:46.519
like that was to take this one
and going back to what um, going

584
00:40:46.559 --> 00:40:50.760
back to what I actually was saying
about, like how Kit had to be

585
00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:53.360
again her own version of the Chosen
One. As much as I loved her

586
00:40:53.400 --> 00:40:55.840
in the armor, and I was
like, I watched Jade look at her,

587
00:40:55.880 --> 00:40:59.280
and I was like, Okay,
that's an instant meme. That's awesome.

588
00:40:59.440 --> 00:41:02.079
Glad again and we need you know, gen Z queer representation got it.

589
00:41:04.559 --> 00:41:07.760
Part of what the story had told
us is that Jade is the better

590
00:41:07.800 --> 00:41:10.320
fighter, and that Jade is the
one who has been holding back the whole

591
00:41:10.320 --> 00:41:15.159
time in order to protect because the
Queen had told her not too. So

592
00:41:15.199 --> 00:41:19.599
she shouldn't have been Jade who wins
that great badass fight, in part because

593
00:41:19.599 --> 00:41:22.360
the whole point is that like,
like Kit has promised to protect a Laura,

594
00:41:22.679 --> 00:41:27.000
and Jade has promised to protect a
Kit, and so like I thought

595
00:41:27.000 --> 00:41:29.400
about that too. I loved watching
it, but I was like, what

596
00:41:29.440 --> 00:41:31.519
was the point of her not being
as good if then at the end Jade

597
00:41:31.679 --> 00:41:37.760
just like watch she needed her trophy. Yeah, and you know, um

598
00:41:39.960 --> 00:41:46.400
so right when when Kit was having
all these like doubts and whatever, her

599
00:41:46.440 --> 00:41:50.719
father's voice came to her. It
was like, you have always been You're

600
00:41:50.760 --> 00:41:54.920
better than me, You've always been
everything. And where the where the where

601
00:41:54.960 --> 00:42:01.079
the bleep was that voice when his
son was getting seduced by the chrome?

602
00:42:02.239 --> 00:42:07.960
Do you care about Eric? I
guess not. Maybe there's any other angsty

603
00:42:07.119 --> 00:42:13.559
movie with like med Martigan and Eric
and they like have a falling out and

604
00:42:14.039 --> 00:42:17.719
somehow like we figure out what their
backstory was via that makes zero sense too.

605
00:42:17.840 --> 00:42:22.719
Yeah. And then the fact that
Kit and a Laura had that long

606
00:42:22.920 --> 00:42:29.079
drawn out conversation in this room that's
like lava ish, I'm like, get

607
00:42:29.079 --> 00:42:35.880
out of there. What are you
doing? Stop it? I um oh

608
00:42:35.920 --> 00:42:37.920
sorry good, I'll just say no, I'm done. I'm trying to think

609
00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:42.159
of some good things guys, because
we should do our three. Yes.

610
00:42:42.239 --> 00:42:45.400
I was saying, we need to
say I have to say good things for

611
00:42:45.480 --> 00:42:49.239
like thirty seconds. I want to
say good thing. I've said some four

612
00:42:49.320 --> 00:42:52.159
and I want to do that.
The three things we can all say are

613
00:42:52.239 --> 00:42:54.840
two or one. In Ashley's case
um, but let me just rag on

614
00:42:54.840 --> 00:42:59.599
one more way, because I agree
two of the themes that I thought they

615
00:42:59.679 --> 00:43:02.079
shut up that could have been so
interesting and then they just dropped into cliche

616
00:43:02.199 --> 00:43:07.039
land. One is this idea of
because you have it with both Willow and

617
00:43:07.119 --> 00:43:10.840
men Martigan, of what does it
do to your family when you feel this

618
00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:14.440
need to go off on all these
great adventures, you know, and like

619
00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:17.880
the idea of kid feeling left behind, and of a Willow feeling like he's

620
00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:21.840
left his daughter behind, and that
as he said, like he's a throwaway

621
00:43:21.880 --> 00:43:24.920
line, but you know, apparently
his wife died because he wasn't there to

622
00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:28.920
help fight for her when he was
off on an adventure. And then its

623
00:43:28.920 --> 00:43:31.639
sun left because of that, Like
we got there's a throwaway line that's such

624
00:43:31.679 --> 00:43:37.559
a great mirror to kids feelings and
the Sun's feelings. We got none of

625
00:43:37.559 --> 00:43:42.000
that. And then again for me, the name the Worm conjures up the

626
00:43:42.199 --> 00:43:45.360
kind of villainous force of nature of
the Wirewolf, The Apocalypse and Vampire the

627
00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:50.400
mass Gerade role playing games, where
in some of those later books they actually

628
00:43:50.480 --> 00:43:53.719
made it a lot more like it's
not evil, it's just the force of

629
00:43:53.760 --> 00:43:59.519
like death and decay and breaking things
down so they can then later be rebuilt,

630
00:43:59.519 --> 00:44:04.079
and there's all this great philosophical stuff
about it. And so when they

631
00:44:04.159 --> 00:44:06.960
told us like, no, no, the worm has a point, I

632
00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:10.280
was ready for them to be like
I wanted them to somewhat convince me that

633
00:44:10.400 --> 00:44:14.239
maybe there was a reason to back
the worm, you know, like to

634
00:44:14.280 --> 00:44:17.360
be like I wanted to understand why
our characters were tempted by it, and

635
00:44:17.400 --> 00:44:22.360
instead it was just such classic like, oh, you can not have to

636
00:44:22.400 --> 00:44:24.039
deal with the stuff. The brother
is clearly an idiot. That's like,

637
00:44:24.079 --> 00:44:29.320
it was just they had so much
potential and it was so dull. Yeah.

638
00:44:29.360 --> 00:44:32.679
I think that that goes to like
the villains in general, you know,

639
00:44:32.760 --> 00:44:37.480
like in the in the movie,
we start off with bav Morda,

640
00:44:37.559 --> 00:44:42.320
Sorcia, and Kale, and we're
introduced to these characters and they're cool and

641
00:44:42.320 --> 00:44:46.480
they're dynamic, and we like the
whole thing is like with bav Morda,

642
00:44:46.639 --> 00:44:51.239
but then like if we know she
wants the kid, she wants to kill

643
00:44:51.280 --> 00:44:53.960
the kid because the kids the only
one who can you know, bring her

644
00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:58.880
down what and well, you know, in the first episode, we were

645
00:44:58.880 --> 00:45:01.480
introduced to the Gails we're like cool
and creepy and oh man, these are

646
00:45:01.519 --> 00:45:07.320
wow, these are really cool bad
guys. Does anyone remember any of their

647
00:45:07.440 --> 00:45:09.679
names? Or like what the point
of them was? Now? And what

648
00:45:09.800 --> 00:45:15.360
is the Okay, the Krone is
working for the worm. They also want

649
00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:19.639
to Laura. What is the worm
want? I don't know, Like if

650
00:45:19.639 --> 00:45:24.679
a Laura is in danger, she
goes on this quest even though she probably

651
00:45:24.679 --> 00:45:30.159
should stay home locked in a bunker
to save her from the chrome, but

652
00:45:30.280 --> 00:45:36.239
she goes to be with Eric and
then she dumps him, so like you

653
00:45:36.320 --> 00:45:38.920
probably should have just stayed home,
girl, Like right, what's good point?

654
00:45:39.639 --> 00:45:45.400
Yeah? Oh boy? All right, So as you all were suggesting,

655
00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:47.360
let's let's talk about some positives.
We can then go back to ragging

656
00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:52.239
hunted or start wrapping this up.
Either way it's fine. Um, but

657
00:45:52.360 --> 00:45:55.079
let me just let me um.
I've said some things. I definitely come

658
00:45:55.159 --> 00:45:58.079
up more, but Katie, let
me start with you. So what are

659
00:45:58.119 --> 00:46:00.199
what are three of the positive things
from the show back for you? Well?

660
00:46:00.280 --> 00:46:05.679
Okay, and I might be repeating
myself a little bit, but Boorman

661
00:46:06.119 --> 00:46:12.920
hot, yes, it really he's
not your typical like I guess, like

662
00:46:13.079 --> 00:46:15.679
sex symbol. You don't see a
lot of like characters like that, but

663
00:46:15.800 --> 00:46:19.719
he's because he's kind of you know, well, I guess you kind of

664
00:46:19.760 --> 00:46:21.960
do. Like he's a bad boy, like girls like bad boys, but

665
00:46:22.159 --> 00:46:24.159
he's good looking. We don't we
don't see a lot of characters that are

666
00:46:24.159 --> 00:46:28.840
fit that physically look like him.
I think he's very sexy, and I

667
00:46:28.840 --> 00:46:30.800
think he's a good actor. I
had not seen him in anything before.

668
00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:37.039
I enjoyed his character and I would
like to see more from him, maybe

669
00:46:37.039 --> 00:46:42.519
with a little more depth going forward, But yes, I like him.

670
00:46:42.760 --> 00:46:49.679
I think that the actors in general
are charismatic and fun. I think they

671
00:46:49.719 --> 00:46:52.679
did a good job with what they
had to work with, and I think

672
00:46:52.719 --> 00:46:55.880
that's part of what drew me in
in the beginning, because for me,

673
00:46:57.800 --> 00:47:01.400
characters and character development is like the
biggest, I guess thing, And so

674
00:47:01.440 --> 00:47:07.760
I enjoyed watching them until I really
felt like the story degraded. But I

675
00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:12.480
thought I thought they were They're charismatic
and they kind of helped carry and otherwise,

676
00:47:13.119 --> 00:47:16.199
you know, a bad story.
And then I guess the other thing

677
00:47:16.199 --> 00:47:21.559
that I really did like was that
they they did pepper in things that were

678
00:47:21.599 --> 00:47:23.719
nostalgic from me, Like I know, they were few and far between,

679
00:47:23.920 --> 00:47:29.199
like with the music, but you
know they got in the snowball like reference

680
00:47:29.280 --> 00:47:32.960
at the end. And like the
episode four, I thought I had a

681
00:47:32.960 --> 00:47:37.840
lot of fun noessalgia. I enjoyed
watching that one. There's a lot of

682
00:47:37.880 --> 00:47:44.960
flashbacky type stuff, so I was
able to enjoy I guess some of the

683
00:47:45.079 --> 00:47:49.000
memories that some of the episodes brought
up. And I loved seeing Sorcia.

684
00:47:49.079 --> 00:47:53.480
I still think she's hot, Yes, yes, yeah, I would definitely

685
00:47:53.519 --> 00:47:57.320
echo for me the first really positive
thing I would talk about as Borman,

686
00:47:58.159 --> 00:48:00.400
because yeah, I love a bad
boy too, and I thought he was

687
00:48:00.519 --> 00:48:04.519
kind of a fun new take on
the bad boy um age just because you

688
00:48:04.559 --> 00:48:07.400
know, as a man of color, that was great to see. Um,

689
00:48:08.079 --> 00:48:13.519
he's I don't know where this comes
from, but there's a term that

690
00:48:13.559 --> 00:48:19.079
I've heard used to describe Lando Calrisian
as sexually omnivorous. You know that he's

691
00:48:19.119 --> 00:48:22.880
just happy to have a little bit
of everything, and that was born into

692
00:48:22.920 --> 00:48:27.000
a t you know. And ye
too, he flirts with everyone, you

693
00:48:27.039 --> 00:48:29.760
know, with Grayden and a Laura. He's like, you all want to

694
00:48:29.760 --> 00:48:32.599
make out like he doesn't care which
one. Um, he's not the like

695
00:48:32.719 --> 00:48:37.079
I need to be in control of
everything. When he's flirting with the Bone

696
00:48:37.159 --> 00:48:39.360
Lady, the head of that group, you know, she says tie him

697
00:48:39.440 --> 00:48:42.159
up, and he's like, this
sounds like fun. You know, he

698
00:48:42.159 --> 00:48:45.639
doesn't need to be in control,
like and he was just he he provided

699
00:48:45.719 --> 00:48:50.000
some of that levity. He was
not as good as Mad Martigan, but

700
00:48:50.039 --> 00:48:53.320
like he played that role well and
I thought that fit in well. Um,

701
00:48:53.400 --> 00:48:55.719
I've talked a lot about it.
Yeah. It also made me really

702
00:48:55.760 --> 00:49:00.400
realize, like it's all teams and
then you have this grown up hope that

703
00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:04.559
you're like, okay, yeah,
one adult in the rest of the well

704
00:49:04.559 --> 00:49:08.679
and obviously work, but like we
already knew him, which now you say

705
00:49:08.719 --> 00:49:12.119
that I don't love as much as
offered to make out with two of them,

706
00:49:12.199 --> 00:49:15.280
but still, you know, yeah
right, I bet if we looked

707
00:49:15.280 --> 00:49:17.239
it up there in their twenty I
think it's the actors are but I think

708
00:49:17.239 --> 00:49:22.239
the characters are supposing yeah, woman, then maybe he's supposed to be nineteen,

709
00:49:22.320 --> 00:49:27.360
what's the what's the age of consent
zero? I think they're supposed to

710
00:49:27.400 --> 00:49:32.960
be Actually, um, but it's
just like Ohio, not just gonna Hey,

711
00:49:34.199 --> 00:49:37.559
there is one place in America that
one of the states that it is

712
00:49:37.599 --> 00:49:39.719
like you can marry some of them, whatever age, as long as the

713
00:49:39.760 --> 00:49:45.880
parent I knew it was one of
the oas um. Second, I've talked

714
00:49:45.880 --> 00:49:47.760
a lot about the queer romance and
how good I thought it was. One

715
00:49:47.760 --> 00:49:51.760
thing I think that it's worth mentioning
about that is that you rarely see that

716
00:49:51.800 --> 00:49:55.119
in fantasy, especially two women,
and when you do, one of them

717
00:49:55.239 --> 00:49:59.719
is generally very fem coated. Like
generally it is like one of them is

718
00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:01.159
kind the one who wants to be
a soldier, and the other one is

719
00:50:01.199 --> 00:50:04.719
like the prince as the kind of
a sans to start, kind of a

720
00:50:04.760 --> 00:50:08.320
princess. So having to be two
women knights, like just just two women

721
00:50:08.360 --> 00:50:13.559
knights, whatever their sexuality, but
having them be into each other and like,

722
00:50:14.719 --> 00:50:16.840
at least on my part of TikTok, the idea of like sword fight

723
00:50:17.000 --> 00:50:22.000
as flirtation has become a big thing, and so watching that among the two

724
00:50:22.039 --> 00:50:25.599
of them was really fun. And
yeah, I liked that too. That's

725
00:50:25.679 --> 00:50:29.880
always been a right and it's not
started on too, I'm sure, but

726
00:50:29.920 --> 00:50:32.599
it's have to bring it back for
the eighties fair enough stord fight movies.

727
00:50:32.760 --> 00:50:37.760
But no, you're right, it's
like they're both strong fighters. There's not

728
00:50:37.840 --> 00:50:43.639
a lot of like skin showing or
anything like that. They're not wearing makeup,

729
00:50:43.880 --> 00:50:47.960
you know, and they're both super
sexy and their relationship is fun to

730
00:50:49.000 --> 00:50:53.719
watch. Yeah that. Did anybody
else get thrown that you thought at the

731
00:50:53.760 --> 00:50:58.159
beginning that Jade was a Laura Dunning? I did, Yes, I wondered

732
00:50:58.199 --> 00:51:01.199
about that. Yeah, having read
I was just like, I don't remember

733
00:51:01.239 --> 00:51:07.280
how like, yeah, that's oh
yep, And I'm gonna say I also

734
00:51:07.360 --> 00:51:09.800
just loved Jade, especially because I
love that actress, because she was the

735
00:51:09.800 --> 00:51:15.679
one who played the leader of the
flag Smashers and falcon with a soldier who

736
00:51:15.679 --> 00:51:21.119
I had been a brilliant character and
it'd been totally let down by the end

737
00:51:21.159 --> 00:51:22.360
of that series, and so getting
to see her again, I was just

738
00:51:22.400 --> 00:51:25.159
like, Okay, this is cool
because I think I agree with what you

739
00:51:25.199 --> 00:51:29.800
were saying, Katie. I thought
all the acting, not all the acting

740
00:51:29.920 --> 00:51:32.480
choices are directorial choices ones I agreed
with, But I thought all the actors

741
00:51:32.480 --> 00:51:36.559
were doing a good job. Um, they were doing what they could with

742
00:51:36.639 --> 00:51:40.000
the terrible Yeah, they were charismatic
and fun to watch and like as an

743
00:51:40.119 --> 00:51:44.800
ensemble. Yeah, like it could
have been that, it could have been

744
00:51:44.800 --> 00:51:45.800
real cool. Yeah, and that's
why I can say, like, I

745
00:51:45.800 --> 00:51:49.440
think this hadn't had the name Willow
on it, and it had just been

746
00:51:49.519 --> 00:51:52.719
like set in its own world and
its own thing where they were going to

747
00:51:52.800 --> 00:51:57.159
play with diet. I'm not going
to go that far, Matthew. I'm

748
00:51:57.159 --> 00:51:59.599
not saying I would love it.
I'm saying I would watch it once and

749
00:51:59.760 --> 00:52:04.920
enjoy it, and probably watched that
and I knew what I was going into.

750
00:52:05.400 --> 00:52:08.000
Yeah, Willowdale, Willowdale. There
you go, There you go,

751
00:52:08.119 --> 00:52:14.639
Willowdale, Thursdays at seven on the
scene that look you mentioned this up next

752
00:52:14.639 --> 00:52:19.840
week on the WB I'm currently been
Vampire Diaries because I love me some CW

753
00:52:19.960 --> 00:52:22.360
stuff. Okay, are you watching
watch Dale? I watched the first season

754
00:52:22.400 --> 00:52:24.960
that for some reason, that one, that one felt so tame compared to

755
00:52:24.960 --> 00:52:28.800
like Gossip Girl and Vampire Diaries and
stuff like, oh no, you gotta

756
00:52:28.840 --> 00:52:31.280
keep watching, Okay, Okay,
yeah it trust me. Arch By episode

757
00:52:31.280 --> 00:52:36.079
three, Archie is in jail running
a underground boxing ring, trying to get

758
00:52:36.079 --> 00:52:40.199
everybody off of drugs. It gets
really crazy. I remember that in the

759
00:52:40.199 --> 00:52:45.039
comics. All right, Actually,
actually, can you find something that you

760
00:52:45.079 --> 00:52:53.880
liked at the show. I liked
the fight sequence in the first episode.

761
00:52:54.199 --> 00:52:59.519
I think when they took um Eric, I thought that was really cool and

762
00:52:59.559 --> 00:53:01.559
I thought, how dare they didn't
misdirect me that the rest wasn't going to

763
00:53:01.599 --> 00:53:06.000
be that cool? Um, because
I thought the monster's makeup was really good

764
00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:08.039
too, Like the guy that looked
like the mouth of Saron, he was

765
00:53:08.119 --> 00:53:16.360
great. I really liked seeing Knockmore
Castle. I mean, the whole episode

766
00:53:16.400 --> 00:53:20.280
wasn't great, but just the castle
was great. I was like, I

767
00:53:20.440 --> 00:53:22.559
know that castle and Kale and stuff
being in there, so that was fun.

768
00:53:22.559 --> 00:53:25.000
So I was that episode four?
Yeah, I think so, yeah,

769
00:53:25.039 --> 00:53:35.480
okay, yeah, Um, I
liked zombie mim Oh yeah, Ashley,

770
00:53:35.480 --> 00:53:37.280
you saw three things? Yes,
I did it. I did it.

771
00:53:38.079 --> 00:53:47.559
Congrat I like it, Mark Um
you know. I I also really

772
00:53:47.599 --> 00:53:55.840
liked the fact that there was you
know, that there was inclusivity and um

773
00:53:57.000 --> 00:54:00.760
representation in this show. I I
also loved the you know, the romance

774
00:54:00.800 --> 00:54:05.320
between Kit and Jade and um,
I loved it. It just it wasn't

775
00:54:05.320 --> 00:54:10.320
all white people. Um And yeah, I like those things too, Just

776
00:54:10.360 --> 00:54:15.679
to throw that out there. Yeah, sorry, sorry, I was going

777
00:54:15.679 --> 00:54:21.000
with actual what was zombie zombie miss
it's fine. Yeah, no, no,

778
00:54:21.159 --> 00:54:24.000
I considered not saying that just or
having that not count because it's already

779
00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:28.159
even said. But I think there's
gonna be some repetition here and what we

780
00:54:28.199 --> 00:54:30.440
liked, um, but yeah,
to build up what you said, Actually,

781
00:54:30.440 --> 00:54:35.599
the nostalgia, the fan service,
uh, some of the fan service.

782
00:54:35.679 --> 00:54:37.400
I really liked, you know,
seeing sorce show with her sword and

783
00:54:37.559 --> 00:54:44.639
seeing Knockmark Castle. Um. When
when the fan service was good, it

784
00:54:44.679 --> 00:54:50.000
was good. When it was bad, it was bad. Um. Sometimes

785
00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:52.679
it kind of just felt like here
here, Millennial, here you go,

786
00:54:52.920 --> 00:54:59.719
I know, you go. We
just can't This show was not made for

787
00:54:59.800 --> 00:55:07.320
me. And and I really thought
that the Shattered Sea was a cool thing.

788
00:55:07.719 --> 00:55:15.320
That was a cool until the waterfall. Yeah, yeah, I got

789
00:55:16.480 --> 00:55:22.519
it's you I liked. I liked
that that was like a practical thing.

790
00:55:22.480 --> 00:55:28.079
Yes, the money was Yeah,
that was really cute. I like Grayden's

791
00:55:28.119 --> 00:55:31.159
connection with that that thing. I
like the world but this was much one

792
00:55:31.159 --> 00:55:35.159
of the first couple episodes. But
I appreciated the world building, like I

793
00:55:35.159 --> 00:55:38.320
felt we were getting to have more
of the world explored. I think then

794
00:55:38.320 --> 00:55:42.679
I got very frustrated towards the end
because we didn't. It didn't feel like

795
00:55:42.719 --> 00:55:45.599
I get paid off in good ways. But yeah, because because nothing mattered

796
00:55:45.800 --> 00:55:51.360
until like Graydon died, I was
like, oh good, we're gonna get

797
00:55:51.360 --> 00:55:54.559
a death that matters, like and
it made her discover her power and all

798
00:55:54.599 --> 00:55:58.480
of that makes sense, right,
But then I was still that moment like,

799
00:55:58.559 --> 00:56:00.559
oh, they have no idea able
to do with him now, so

800
00:56:00.639 --> 00:56:04.920
let's just kill him. Yeah,
kill him. But like up until that

801
00:56:05.000 --> 00:56:09.440
point, like people have been dying, like you know, uh, Christians

802
00:56:09.519 --> 00:56:15.639
later conceivably was hacked to pieces by
those trolls and was just like na.

803
00:56:15.760 --> 00:56:22.599
But what we did see in the
second episode was the old man who was

804
00:56:22.639 --> 00:56:25.480
like, I raised Eck from the
time he was a baby. He's the

805
00:56:25.559 --> 00:56:30.960
closest thing I have to a son. I will go with you. And

806
00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:35.760
then eight minutes later he gets an
arrow to the sternum from a bone warrior

807
00:56:36.039 --> 00:56:38.119
and everyone's just like, let's get
out of here and crack jokes while we

808
00:56:38.239 --> 00:56:42.559
run away. They never talk about
again. They don't give a Laura that

809
00:56:42.679 --> 00:56:45.559
horse that nobody's using. I could
just know he was like, Hey,

810
00:56:45.599 --> 00:56:50.800
what that guy details? Yeah,
I had utterly forgotten about that guy.

811
00:56:50.960 --> 00:56:53.039
Because again I was the first couple
we like. It's not like a who

812
00:56:53.079 --> 00:56:58.000
can be forgiven for that since the
characters didn't even remember, not for anything.

813
00:56:58.119 --> 00:57:00.800
But his wound didn't even look that
bad, Like I feel like they

814
00:57:00.880 --> 00:57:05.760
could have saved him. To the
post credit scene, it was him like,

815
00:57:05.800 --> 00:57:09.639
oh, please come back. I'm
not dead yet dead, I'd have

816
00:57:09.719 --> 00:57:13.599
some internal bleeding. If you take
me back to tars Lane, I'm sure

817
00:57:13.599 --> 00:57:19.440
I'll be fine. No, yeah, all right, Well, we're gonna

818
00:57:19.440 --> 00:57:22.679
start wrapping up the regular part of
the show for the patrons. We're gonna

819
00:57:22.679 --> 00:57:25.119
have a final section where we discussed
like we might have made this show if

820
00:57:25.119 --> 00:57:29.880
we could have done it in a
different way. But I want to go

821
00:57:30.159 --> 00:57:32.119
for regular. Listeners, give everyone
that kind of what's your last word,

822
00:57:32.280 --> 00:57:36.360
one last thing you want to say
about the show? Actually want to start.

823
00:57:37.320 --> 00:57:39.639
I'm disgusted that there's going to be
two more seasons. That's fair.

824
00:57:42.079 --> 00:57:45.119
I will leave an open door for
you if we cover them, but you

825
00:57:45.159 --> 00:57:47.400
will buy no means to be obligated
to watch them. I don't think people

826
00:57:47.400 --> 00:57:52.679
would really want me to be on. Well, let the listeners decide.

827
00:57:52.519 --> 00:58:04.840
Mark. My final word on the
show is it was not great, but

828
00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:09.039
it could have been. It came
so close. Like there's so many things

829
00:58:09.039 --> 00:58:14.480
that have just just could have been
fixed with like two lines of dialogue.

830
00:58:15.119 --> 00:58:21.119
Or for instance, when Kit found
Mad Martigan's sword and it's like, oh,

831
00:58:21.199 --> 00:58:25.559
what an awesome, cool moment,
and then the sword is completely not

832
00:58:25.840 --> 00:58:30.199
dull. It's like the edges are
flat. It's like it's like a clearly

833
00:58:30.280 --> 00:58:35.920
like a prop sword. There's no
edge on the blade. And I was

834
00:58:35.960 --> 00:58:39.519
just like, who's the prop master
that let that happen? But and I

835
00:58:39.519 --> 00:58:43.119
don't mean to harp on like one
particular thing, but there was just all

836
00:58:43.159 --> 00:58:49.840
these like little things that just could
have been better. And zippers. If

837
00:58:49.840 --> 00:58:52.239
they want to bring me in,
just bring all four of us in for

838
00:58:52.280 --> 00:58:54.599
the second season. Just be like, guys, no, no, do

839
00:58:54.719 --> 00:59:00.840
not put a Nravata song in this
episode. Oh yeah, I'm available.

840
00:59:04.480 --> 00:59:09.360
I would like to talk about the
relationship between Willow and a Laura. Yeah,

841
00:59:09.639 --> 00:59:15.159
in the original movie, she's obviously
a baby, but they have this

842
00:59:15.400 --> 00:59:24.719
innate intuitive connection to each other such
that a magical fairy brings the baby back

843
00:59:24.760 --> 00:59:30.639
to Willow even when he gives her
to a Diachini, and then they go

844
00:59:30.760 --> 00:59:37.360
through this whole journey and she's still
just a baby, but she loves Willow.

845
00:59:37.639 --> 00:59:43.559
They have this beautiful connection. So
then when you're like, hey,

846
00:59:43.880 --> 00:59:49.400
I wonder what would happen later in
life with them, I just think there

847
00:59:49.519 --> 00:59:54.880
was so much beauty that could have
been done with this, Like maybe somewhere

848
00:59:55.000 --> 01:00:00.599
that innate connection still exists. But
now she's a teen and she's been gone

849
01:00:00.679 --> 01:00:06.800
for a long time, and so
he's battling with maybe the relationship not being

850
01:00:07.039 --> 01:00:10.440
what he hoped it would be.
I didn't want to see him being so

851
01:00:10.519 --> 01:00:17.039
mean to her. I wanted something
different. I wanted to feel sad and

852
01:00:17.599 --> 01:00:22.960
happy and confused as they were working
out their relationship. But I also wanted

853
01:00:23.000 --> 01:00:28.199
there to just be this innate thing, and it wasn't there. And I

854
01:00:29.440 --> 01:00:32.079
wish, most of all, out
of everything that like that would have been

855
01:00:32.079 --> 01:00:36.440
done differently. Yeah, I think, And we'll talk about that more of

856
01:00:36.480 --> 01:00:42.159
the Patreon section, and I'll just
close by saying again, like I said,

857
01:00:42.320 --> 01:00:44.519
I did some research into this.
I kind of looked up on like

858
01:00:44.880 --> 01:00:46.840
different social media what people are saying
about the movie. On Rotten Tomatoes,

859
01:00:46.880 --> 01:00:52.000
it has a fifty one percent like
score, and so like half the fans

860
01:00:52.039 --> 01:00:57.239
liked it. Half the fans didn't. And there's a lot of people who

861
01:00:57.239 --> 01:01:00.360
are gung ho, absolutely in love
with the show, and for I was

862
01:01:00.400 --> 01:01:06.039
kind of surprised and they realized all
of them are gen z um, you

863
01:01:06.079 --> 01:01:07.880
know, and that any of the
contact I found that was critical of it

864
01:01:07.920 --> 01:01:10.639
was almost all people who were like, you know, thirty five and up

865
01:01:12.199 --> 01:01:15.519
um. And I really think that
that's the same. I don't want to

866
01:01:15.519 --> 01:01:19.599
speak, you know, for everybody
by any means, but I Ken didn't

867
01:01:19.639 --> 01:01:24.400
like it, and he's thirty three, okay, well still also Ken lives

868
01:01:24.480 --> 01:01:30.239
with a very jaded, very cynical
older women. Yes, so he's refrected

869
01:01:30.320 --> 01:01:37.039
by that. Also true. Um, there's so many comments, yes,

870
01:01:37.159 --> 01:01:38.480
and like I think that kind of
speaks to what you were saying. Actually,

871
01:01:38.519 --> 01:01:43.639
Like it may well be that someone
described it as like this is it's

872
01:01:43.639 --> 01:01:47.559
a Disney ya show and it's aimed
from much younger audience. And you know,

873
01:01:47.559 --> 01:01:50.719
that's kind of how I fault about
the prequels. I remember in Star

874
01:01:50.719 --> 01:01:52.039
Wars World, and I've come to
appreciate a blog part of those. I

875
01:01:52.039 --> 01:01:55.440
don't think you wouldn't do that with
this show. Um. Oh how about

876
01:01:55.440 --> 01:01:59.280
this she was wearing Race Skywalker's outfit. By the end of it, I

877
01:01:59.320 --> 01:02:00.880
was like, we were making jokes
about that too, They're like, my

878
01:02:00.960 --> 01:02:06.239
new name is Laura Dannon. It's
a race I like it. I like

879
01:02:06.320 --> 01:02:07.480
it. I just thought it was
interesting that it does seem like as a

880
01:02:07.480 --> 01:02:12.159
fairly big generational divide, and so
certainly in terms of listeners, if you

881
01:02:12.280 --> 01:02:14.880
love the show, we'd love to
hear from you about it. You can

882
01:02:14.880 --> 01:02:16.599
find all the ways to contact us
by going to the Ethical Panda dot com.

883
01:02:17.400 --> 01:02:21.760
You can also find our patron if
you should go to Patreon and look

884
01:02:21.760 --> 01:02:23.360
for the Ethical Panda, then it
will also be in the show notes.

885
01:02:23.679 --> 01:02:25.920
That way, you get to help
support the show all the great things we're

886
01:02:25.920 --> 01:02:30.480
trying to do. It's a labor
of love, but it does cost some

887
01:02:30.559 --> 01:02:31.920
money and some effort in time.
Would love to have a little bit your

888
01:02:31.960 --> 01:02:36.800
support. You'll get all the great
bonus content we're doing and other great things

889
01:02:36.840 --> 01:02:38.960
like that, So please check all
those things out. All that will be

890
01:02:38.960 --> 01:02:42.719
on the show notes. Most importantly, we've had three great guests here,

891
01:02:42.760 --> 01:02:45.599
all of whom we're doing great content
you should check out as well. So

892
01:02:45.000 --> 01:02:47.280
Mark, since you just throw your
hands up in the air like you do

893
01:02:47.400 --> 01:02:52.440
care? Why don't you start with
where can people find you? Well,

894
01:02:52.480 --> 01:02:59.760
you can find me on the cast
Eye podcast at cast Eye Podcast where I

895
01:03:00.079 --> 01:03:04.760
dungeon Master and and do and play
a different tabletop role playing games. You

896
01:03:04.760 --> 01:03:10.920
can find me on the ether log
um ether log I forget ether log ether

897
01:03:12.159 --> 01:03:15.519
ether log um Wow? Maybe cut
that either log. You can find me

898
01:03:15.559 --> 01:03:21.079
on the ether log okay good.
You can find me on the ether log

899
01:03:21.440 --> 01:03:28.000
Um, another actual play podcast.
And you can also look for audio books

900
01:03:28.039 --> 01:03:30.960
that I have narrated and please buy
the ones, buy all of them,

901
01:03:30.960 --> 01:03:36.519
but especially by two copies of the
ones that I get profit share. There

902
01:03:36.519 --> 01:03:38.559
you go. We have links to
all these things in the show notes,

903
01:03:39.199 --> 01:03:42.760
which means Mark now has just sent
me a lot of links. Katie,

904
01:03:42.840 --> 01:03:46.400
yes, what about yourself? You
can find me at my house at one

905
01:03:46.559 --> 01:03:57.639
twenty seven. Oh sorry, I'm
on Twitter at Katie oh lady. And

906
01:03:58.400 --> 01:04:01.880
you can also find me on the
cast Ipodle podcast. And I do another

907
01:04:02.079 --> 01:04:11.800
YouTube actual play various different t TRPGs
Carrie Smith on YouTube and it's also called

908
01:04:11.800 --> 01:04:17.440
Crossroads Games, and I think that's
it. You can also find me in

909
01:04:17.480 --> 01:04:26.039
Ashley's house sometimes and just maybe hopefully
on here again. Also definitely and Ashley,

910
01:04:26.239 --> 01:04:29.880
what was up with a supreme leader
of the stranded Panta podcast network.

911
01:04:30.920 --> 01:04:33.840
Oh, you can always find me
at the mccast. We are getting ready

912
01:04:33.880 --> 01:04:40.760
to start on a big feat of
rewatching all of the Infinity Saga from release

913
01:04:40.920 --> 01:04:44.679
order from the beginning, to do
a different kind of perspective on what we

914
01:04:44.800 --> 01:04:48.480
get from these movies now first when
we saw them the first time. You

915
01:04:48.519 --> 01:04:54.599
can get me talking about things I
love on Bill and Ashley's Terror Theater podcast,

916
01:04:54.679 --> 01:04:58.360
which being my co host, well
Bread breakdown horror movies all the way

917
01:04:58.360 --> 01:05:01.039
from A to Z and and you
know you'll find me around. You know,

918
01:05:01.079 --> 01:05:03.800
we got Mando coming up. We
got some stuff. Definitely, definitely,

919
01:05:03.760 --> 01:05:06.360
we will definitely talk to you about
getting back on for Mando coverage.

920
01:05:08.119 --> 01:05:10.400
When you asked me about shows this
year, I was like, I don't

921
01:05:10.400 --> 01:05:12.199
I don't even know. And then
I was like, oh wait a minute,

922
01:05:12.199 --> 01:05:15.239
mandolord, Yeah, we gotta have
some Patro Pascal love. Um.

923
01:05:15.280 --> 01:05:18.119
Anyway, thank you all so much
to all my listeners. If you're not

924
01:05:18.159 --> 01:05:21.039
see ground for the bonus content,
thank you as much for being listeners.

925
01:05:21.079 --> 01:05:24.440
I would love you to becoming patrons, but you know you don't want to

926
01:05:24.440 --> 01:05:26.480
do that. There's so many other
great ways you can support the show.

927
01:05:26.800 --> 01:05:30.840
Give us a five star review on
whatever kind of podcast user thing you use,

928
01:05:30.280 --> 01:05:32.840
or just share it with a friend. We love these conversations. Do

929
01:05:32.880 --> 01:05:35.039
you have you been talking to people
about Willow? You want to bring them

930
01:05:35.039 --> 01:05:38.920
into the conversation, whether you loved
it, wh you hate it, Send

931
01:05:38.960 --> 01:05:42.039
us feedback, send us thoughts,
send this to a friend. It's one

932
01:05:42.039 --> 01:05:44.159
of the best ways to help support
us and help the network grow, which

933
01:05:44.159 --> 01:05:46.559
just help keep the conversation going.
So I'm having myself all my great guests.

934
01:05:46.679 --> 01:05:49.119
Thank you all so much for listening, and have a great day.

935
01:05:50.000 --> 01:05:51.719
Bye bye,