WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:07.440 You. Chilly Effect is sponsored by Wall Street Window dot Com and listeners now 2 00:00:13.679 --> 00:00:18.199 July twenty seven, twenty twenty three. Allegedly, according to that thing we 3 00:00:18.280 --> 00:00:22.239 call a calendar, this is indeed the show you were looking for, because 4 00:00:22.239 --> 00:00:26.000 you're hearing me say this. That's how I know that. Anyway, here 5 00:00:26.000 --> 00:00:29.160 we are on a Thor's day. I've got Mike Swanson with me, the 6 00:00:29.199 --> 00:00:32.640 guy behind Wallstreet Window dot Com. Of course you can be in the no 7 00:00:32.920 --> 00:00:36.799 go to Wall Street Window dot com. It is not just about Wall Street 8 00:00:36.920 --> 00:00:41.560 and he's the author of a bunch of interesting books really. But two, 9 00:00:41.640 --> 00:00:45.039 I like to focus on the War State. That read book you see on 10 00:00:45.079 --> 00:00:49.840 the sidebard o'chelly dot com and also is popping up in some kind of new 11 00:00:49.880 --> 00:00:53.200 search engine thing. I don't know how that works, but it pops up 12 00:00:53.719 --> 00:00:57.560 alongside of the Ocelli Effect logo with some sort of new image search. I 13 00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:00.280 don't understand it. I'm not going to claim too. But either way, 14 00:01:00.759 --> 00:01:06.079 that red book where you see Eisenhower during his farewell speech on the cover of 15 00:01:06.120 --> 00:01:10.719 it, The War State authored by Mike Swanson and Why the Vietnam War, 16 00:01:11.200 --> 00:01:14.840 a book you here adds for on here and all that good stuff, the 17 00:01:14.879 --> 00:01:21.480 first in a series of potentially three on that particular conflict, containing information that 18 00:01:21.560 --> 00:01:25.719 I guarantee is rare. You're not going to see it everywhere. So and 19 00:01:25.959 --> 00:01:30.040 Mike, with his unique writing style and all that. Also, I advise 20 00:01:30.159 --> 00:01:34.319 go sign up for the mailing list at Wall Street Window dot com. You 21 00:01:34.359 --> 00:01:38.920 can get the morning headlines. It's not the rundown like JP Sattilli, but 22 00:01:38.480 --> 00:01:42.719 hell of an interesting resource and a way to collect yourself in the morning if 23 00:01:42.760 --> 00:01:47.079 you want to read your news instead of I don't know, tuning to some 24 00:01:47.239 --> 00:01:49.319 talking head is going to have the same argument in front of you over and 25 00:01:49.359 --> 00:01:53.879 over again, or listening to the radio. Do people listen to the radio 26 00:01:53.959 --> 00:01:59.319 anymore? I know they do. We're on the radio apps anyway. Welcome 27 00:01:59.480 --> 00:02:01.840 to Thor's Day, Mike Swanson, How are you doing to night, sir. 28 00:02:02.519 --> 00:02:07.719 I'm doing great to you. It is a good time to talk to 29 00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:13.400 you now. I've been watching some congressional hearings lately. Certainly I was watching 30 00:02:13.439 --> 00:02:19.800 the Judiciary Committee all right, and Jim Jordan with his shirt off making his 31 00:02:19.879 --> 00:02:24.280 points. Lots of interesting stuff. Oh, by the bye, Hunter Biden's 32 00:02:24.439 --> 00:02:29.159 plea deal. Maybe there's something going on there. The headlines are a bit 33 00:02:29.240 --> 00:02:32.479 sketchy. Yes, indeed, that's all happening in The dog and pony show 34 00:02:32.520 --> 00:02:38.520 continues, except to my disappointment, no dogs, no ponies, just dog 35 00:02:38.560 --> 00:02:44.080 and pony type shows happening in Congress. But there's also other things going on. 36 00:02:44.840 --> 00:02:49.000 Larry Hancock has been on recently to talk about the UAP conference that I 37 00:02:49.120 --> 00:02:52.719 think I think is going on this weekend, come to think of it, 38 00:02:53.599 --> 00:02:58.520 where you know, academics are actually studying some of the history of what's gone 39 00:02:58.560 --> 00:03:01.080 on the national security state, its reaction to it, you know, very 40 00:03:01.159 --> 00:03:07.319 much liking his book Unidentified, all that good stuff. But there are hearings 41 00:03:07.319 --> 00:03:13.840 going on. Some thing's happening here regarding what used to be called UFOs nowadays 42 00:03:14.039 --> 00:03:17.120 UAP, right, And I've been corrected a few times back and forth. 43 00:03:17.560 --> 00:03:24.080 Is it unidentified aerial phenomena or is it unidentified? I don't know either way. 44 00:03:24.120 --> 00:03:28.840 I know unidentified. It's the first part of it, and it's meant 45 00:03:28.879 --> 00:03:31.159 to be the new way, the new nomenclature, so to speak, the 46 00:03:31.280 --> 00:03:37.000 new linguistic approach to talking about things you might see in the sky that are 47 00:03:37.080 --> 00:03:42.599 not quite easily recognizable. One way or another. And you told me that 48 00:03:42.599 --> 00:03:45.919 you've been watching some of these hearings just before we went to air. So 49 00:03:46.719 --> 00:03:49.639 what is your takeaway? What do you get from that? Mike Swanson? 50 00:03:50.719 --> 00:03:54.800 Well, I haven't actually been watching them, but I got someone a few 51 00:03:54.840 --> 00:03:59.560 hours ago to email me about it, asking if I want to do an 52 00:03:59.560 --> 00:04:04.039 interview about it. And wait a minute, somebody emailed you and said, 53 00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:10.560 do you want to talk about the UFO stuff that's going on? Like? 54 00:04:11.120 --> 00:04:15.159 How how did that conversation? No offense, Mike, I don't usually think 55 00:04:15.159 --> 00:04:18.319 of you as the UFO guy, the UAP guy. I mean, I 56 00:04:18.639 --> 00:04:21.319 know you you might be interested in those things a bit. A lot of 57 00:04:21.399 --> 00:04:26.279 us are tangentially interested one way or another, whether it's you know, I'm 58 00:04:26.319 --> 00:04:30.759 interested in aliens implying saucers, or I'm just curious about things that are in 59 00:04:30.800 --> 00:04:32.920 the sky that we can't identify one or the other. But I don't usually 60 00:04:32.959 --> 00:04:36.399 think of you that way. Or do you have some kind of secret interest 61 00:04:36.439 --> 00:04:42.199 in this I don't know about. No, I don't really have harry any 62 00:04:42.279 --> 00:04:45.920 interest in it, honestly. Um, So, was it weird that somebody 63 00:04:45.959 --> 00:04:49.360 just emailed you like that? Okay? What they did is they They they 64 00:04:49.399 --> 00:04:53.839 say they have a podcast. I'm not gonna name it because I don't want 65 00:04:53.839 --> 00:04:57.680 to talk bad about somebody to make it come off like I'm doing that. 66 00:04:58.040 --> 00:05:03.000 But uh, And they said they want to know if I like to discuss 67 00:05:03.160 --> 00:05:13.439 my book The War State in context of the hearings today and what they say 68 00:05:13.879 --> 00:05:20.959 appears to be rising tension between the legislative and executive branches regarding oversight of classified 69 00:05:20.959 --> 00:05:28.600 programs and technology. And they say that I'm an expert on the historical origins 70 00:05:28.639 --> 00:05:33.720 of an American national security state, so I could basically give my perspective on 71 00:05:33.800 --> 00:05:40.879 that. And they'd wanted to discuss the warning signs that eishaw and other Why 72 00:05:40.920 --> 00:05:44.600 they said, why you said military industrial complex, which is what the book 73 00:05:44.680 --> 00:05:49.199 is about, how the Cold Wars linked to that secrecy and classified programs. 74 00:05:49.199 --> 00:05:57.199 But then they have this question, what are the current debates going on now 75 00:05:57.240 --> 00:06:06.600 about UFOs, UAPs and unacknowledged special access programs, that's their phrase. But 76 00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:15.199 they their question is where that represents Congress reasserting its constitutional oversight role, and 77 00:06:15.319 --> 00:06:23.800 how these hearings could could be implying that the balance of power between the defense 78 00:06:23.959 --> 00:06:30.639 establishment and our elected Representatives is changing. And well, that's an interesting angle, 79 00:06:30.680 --> 00:06:33.759 Mike, because after all, look one way or another, access to 80 00:06:33.800 --> 00:06:40.279 classified documentation, exactly what is classified, what is not? You know, 81 00:06:40.360 --> 00:06:44.879 the president's right to declassify. All these things have actually been stirring in the 82 00:06:44.920 --> 00:06:48.920 pot for the past couple of years in the public right, and the changing 83 00:06:48.920 --> 00:06:55.000 of the guard in the House of Representatives and therefore the changing of people running 84 00:06:55.040 --> 00:07:00.839 these committees has certainly given us a different face and different arguments regarding ISA right. 85 00:07:00.759 --> 00:07:04.079 The behavior of the investigative agencies, which, by the way, make 86 00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:09.160 no mistake, a lot of times when there is an investigation is something connected 87 00:07:09.160 --> 00:07:14.240 to UAPs. Often who is called, well, the military and the FBI, 88 00:07:14.399 --> 00:07:18.240 So you have different levels of classification that could go on there. You 89 00:07:18.319 --> 00:07:23.879 do have knowledge about the Pentagon's behavior. Like I said, that's why that's 90 00:07:23.879 --> 00:07:28.000 a great book from Larry. It's a little bit unconventional identified. Did you 91 00:07:28.040 --> 00:07:30.959 read that book, by the way, I haven't, but I haven't read 92 00:07:31.000 --> 00:07:36.319 it, Okay, Well, but interesting stories in there about how you know, 93 00:07:36.439 --> 00:07:42.439 there are odd things that have gone on overhead and on the ground at 94 00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:46.199 say, you know, some of the what should be the most secure facilities 95 00:07:46.759 --> 00:07:53.199 in our military constructs, right where nuclear weapons are stored, where you know 96 00:07:53.279 --> 00:07:58.920 weapons are are housed, and like missile silos, different facilities that are pretty 97 00:07:58.959 --> 00:08:05.519 sensitive and exactly how did be Yeah, go ahead. I would say, 98 00:08:05.839 --> 00:08:13.079 though, like this idea that the people are now gonna you got a hearing 99 00:08:13.079 --> 00:08:16.560 and you have a whistle blower, and that this person supposed whistleblower, and 100 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:22.639 that means everything is changing, I don't buy that. In fact, I 101 00:08:22.680 --> 00:08:28.040 would say no matter. First of all, I'm just gonna say, one 102 00:08:28.120 --> 00:08:35.519 person talking and telling stories, it's not enough information for me to really bother 103 00:08:35.759 --> 00:08:39.919 myself. You know, I want to see documented proof. I want to 104 00:08:39.960 --> 00:08:46.440 see a real investigation or something of details. Just Congress having a hearing and 105 00:08:46.480 --> 00:08:50.759 a bunch of people saying things, Well, you know that's happened before, 106 00:08:50.960 --> 00:08:54.000 and it doesn't mean it's always true what we have they're saying, true, 107 00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:56.639 true, absolutely true. But we also have seen, you know, some 108 00:08:56.759 --> 00:09:03.639 movement here where there's going to be now at least reporting mechanism so that you 109 00:09:03.639 --> 00:09:09.840 know, when these anomalies occur or these anomalous events take place, that there's 110 00:09:09.879 --> 00:09:13.960 actually somebody to go to to collect that information. That's a change in recent 111 00:09:13.039 --> 00:09:16.440 years because for a long time, as Larry pointed out on the show, 112 00:09:18.559 --> 00:09:22.440 there was nobody to go to. Right. You could contact the Air Force 113 00:09:22.440 --> 00:09:24.919 and the FBI or whatever, but they didn't have a point of collection for 114 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:30.600 this stuff, and who knows where it was actually going when things were being 115 00:09:30.600 --> 00:09:35.240 reported. We also got in recent years some of these videos outside of the 116 00:09:35.240 --> 00:09:39.480 whistleblower, somebody showing up saying, hey, look they're hiding stuff from you. 117 00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:43.879 I mean, the normal tug of war between what the public should and 118 00:09:43.879 --> 00:09:50.519 should not know is a very small aspect to what we're seeing now. So 119 00:09:50.799 --> 00:09:54.679 I can see how you're You're saying, look, there's not a lot happening 120 00:09:54.720 --> 00:10:00.600 here, But at the same time, maybe there is because at REA seizing 121 00:10:00.639 --> 00:10:03.960 a change in behavior regarding reporting and collection. In the end, what's going 122 00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:07.960 to happen is Space Force is going to get more money. See now, 123 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:11.320 that was my biggest question, and nobody likes the question is Okay, is 124 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:18.200 this really just an overall justification to fund Space Force? Which was a laughable 125 00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:22.639 thing. I mean, we saw that emerge very reminiscent of the Star Trek 126 00:10:22.679 --> 00:10:26.240 logo, the new Space Force logo. You remember all that during the Trump 127 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:31.200 administration. Oh yeah, so yeah, people thought it was some people made 128 00:10:31.240 --> 00:10:35.240 fun of it, But now no one question and no one will because they're 129 00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:39.120 gonna be scared or think that. You know. Way, we just need 130 00:10:39.159 --> 00:10:45.840 this because of this unknown threat of what UAPs are. Well in the White 131 00:10:45.840 --> 00:10:54.399 House, what I'm reading today is the National just go is he the National 132 00:10:54.440 --> 00:11:01.080 Security Council spokesman said there may be life outside our planet. Well, sure, 133 00:11:01.159 --> 00:11:03.840 there might be, And then he says, we don't know what the 134 00:11:03.919 --> 00:11:09.120 UAPs are. We don't know if they prove that the extraterrestrials are real, 135 00:11:11.919 --> 00:11:15.960 Well that's a way to tantalize the public. But in reality, once again, 136 00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:18.480 I mean, look, if there is something flying over our heads and 137 00:11:18.519 --> 00:11:22.159 we don't know what the origin is or who's in control of it, that 138 00:11:22.240 --> 00:11:26.600 does become a literal national security problem because forget, you know, the little 139 00:11:26.639 --> 00:11:30.399 green men that people are going to joke about, but I mean imagine that. 140 00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:33.840 And also this justifies a lot of military and other types of budgeting in 141 00:11:33.879 --> 00:11:37.960 the government. Right, Well, what if, say, the Russians, 142 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:45.960 the Chinese, somebody else has technology that's so far ahead of ours that you 143 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:50.360 know, it's not recognizable. It doesn't even appear to be real because it's 144 00:11:50.960 --> 00:11:54.480 you know, some sort of supertech, right, So we got to approach 145 00:11:54.519 --> 00:12:00.639 this and take it seriously. And perhaps again it's another justification to fun things 146 00:12:00.679 --> 00:12:03.279 like Space Force, which again did seem to be a joke. Yes, 147 00:12:03.639 --> 00:12:07.679 and it's not always about aliens. But if you shake people up a little 148 00:12:07.679 --> 00:12:11.440 and get them thinking about that kind of stuff, well, what would we 149 00:12:11.480 --> 00:12:15.919 do in the case that there is a hostile something coming to see us? 150 00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:22.000 And that's the thing is so far hostility has not been established. And the 151 00:12:22.080 --> 00:12:26.879 fact that some things are remaining unknown because they don't know how to classify it, 152 00:12:26.960 --> 00:12:30.000 they don't know where it came from, where it went to, who 153 00:12:30.039 --> 00:12:33.960 created the technology, etc. That means that they got to do something right, 154 00:12:35.000 --> 00:12:37.399 Mike, I mean, this is how you justify these agencies getting funded, 155 00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:43.720 how you justify brand new studies, whole new agencies being created. Sometimes 156 00:12:43.080 --> 00:12:48.200 maybe we need a study of UAP's office, so to speak. Now, 157 00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:52.440 I find this funny at exactly the time when you know, Mitch McConnell is 158 00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:56.960 freezing up on camera, you know, apparently had a fall earlier this year 159 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:01.120 that maybe they didn't report on's trying to keep his dog from biting people. 160 00:13:01.159 --> 00:13:05.399 I mean, it's a weird week, but you know, why not here 161 00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:09.039 we go, let's talk about aliens because at least that will capture people's imaginations 162 00:13:09.039 --> 00:13:13.279 and maybe forget them, you know, and get them to forget that it's 163 00:13:13.320 --> 00:13:16.440 almost impossible to feed yourself when you go to the grocery store, right, 164 00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:22.080 I mean, I know that's a mouthful, but true or false? Isn't 165 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:26.440 this the kind of thing that sometimes happens. You capture the American public's imagination 166 00:13:26.480 --> 00:13:31.039 with something you justify funding. I mean, you remember Star Wars, you 167 00:13:31.080 --> 00:13:35.600 know, literally what they called star Wars at one point, the Space Defense 168 00:13:35.679 --> 00:13:39.360 Initiative, right, the SDI Reagan era. You and I were kids, 169 00:13:41.240 --> 00:13:46.080 But I mean that was a fully justifiable thing because guess what, there might 170 00:13:46.120 --> 00:13:50.519 be a need for space weaponry so we can keep up with people. I 171 00:13:50.600 --> 00:13:54.039 mean, this is how they justified MK Ultra. This is how they justify 172 00:13:54.159 --> 00:14:00.159 many different operations, the money funding development of new weapons, etc. Etc. 173 00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:03.200 So in context, this is an important issue, is it not, 174 00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:13.039 Mike? But yeah, we're not gonna. The problem is, I don't 175 00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:18.440 think we're gonna. We don't have any real information the public or the government 176 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:24.279 maybe both? Hey, fair enough, I asked the open question. I'm 177 00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:28.000 not trying to lead you. You know, yeah, maybe both? Right 178 00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:31.360 do we what do we know? And when did they know it? You 179 00:14:31.399 --> 00:14:35.879 know? I mean, I think there's a potential here that the government knows 180 00:14:35.879 --> 00:14:39.399 a hell of a lot more and they're throwing out this other stuff to not 181 00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:43.080 get us to even go anywhere near what they truly know. You know, 182 00:14:43.159 --> 00:14:46.639 Hey, look, we will admit that our navy pilots have filmed some stuff, 183 00:14:46.679 --> 00:14:52.120 and we'll admit that our people are seeing things, and will admit that 184 00:14:52.159 --> 00:14:56.840 there's been some incidents now even though we didn't use to. Maybe that's being 185 00:14:56.840 --> 00:15:01.039 thrown out to capture people's imagination because there's a much dark or truth that's being 186 00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:05.440 hidden behind that. I mean, is that's a possibility as well? Right? 187 00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:09.240 Oh, sure that makes a lot of sense. Or again, the 188 00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:13.080 other the other worldly thing, Just like with the jfk assassination. I always 189 00:15:13.639 --> 00:15:16.919 if I want to really screw up somebody's mind who is really intense about it 190 00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:22.919 and not really well informed, I try and present to them the possibility. 191 00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:24.039 You know, what do you think is the government covering it up? Did 192 00:15:24.039 --> 00:15:26.240 they do it? Blah blah blah. I go, well, how about 193 00:15:26.279 --> 00:15:31.240 this, for instance, how about if nobody actually knows what happened? I 194 00:15:31.279 --> 00:15:35.639 mean literally nobody knows. The people that you know were involved in the crime 195 00:15:35.679 --> 00:15:39.879 are long dead and the tracks were fully covered, and nobody will know. 196 00:15:39.080 --> 00:15:43.200 Nobody does know. And it isn't a matter of covering up a truth that's 197 00:15:43.240 --> 00:15:50.240 being held back. It's a matter of the truth being held back is they 198 00:15:50.279 --> 00:15:54.440 don't actually know what happened still sixty years later, and that hurts some people's 199 00:15:54.480 --> 00:16:00.559 heads. You know, how about this, A hundred years of UFO sightings 200 00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:06.240 at least documented, maybe they don't know crap about what happened there either, 201 00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:11.120 you know, on any of these counts. I mean, Roswell was what 202 00:16:11.320 --> 00:16:15.679 year was Roswell? I can't remember now, but nineteen it was somewhere. 203 00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:18.120 I think it was in the forties. Actually, yeah, like just around 204 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:22.000 near the end of World War forty eight or forty six or something. I'm 205 00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:26.039 gonna go take a look and see when when the Roswell incident was, and 206 00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:30.639 that would be the modern day launching forty seven of the fascination. That was 207 00:16:30.679 --> 00:16:34.240 forty seven, okay, But but either way, that would be the modern 208 00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:38.440 day launching of the interest, right, And well, that's what I'm just 209 00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:44.919 I'm just extremely skeptical because, you know, I don't believe that was real, 210 00:16:45.559 --> 00:16:51.080 you know, the Roswell incident as far as being a alien. Um, 211 00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:53.120 well, I was gonna say, what do you mean You don't mean 212 00:16:53.320 --> 00:16:56.960 you don't believe it was real. You don't think it was actually an alien? 213 00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:59.399 Do you think it really was a weather balloon? Do you think it 214 00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:02.080 was an experient yea, I think it's probably a weather balloon. I think 215 00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:06.519 it might have been an experimental piece or something, you know that they didn't 216 00:17:06.519 --> 00:17:10.200 want people to look at very kid, that would could be how I don't 217 00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:14.200 think a space man, but yeah, what you're saying could be possible too. 218 00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:18.880 Sure a quick look at you know, just maybe not a weather balloon 219 00:17:18.920 --> 00:17:22.799 but spy balloo. Look, we just had the spy balloon panic a few 220 00:17:22.839 --> 00:17:26.720 months ago about the China balloon floating of the United States. Everyone went into 221 00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:29.920 a panic. Yeah, I was just gonna ask you about that. Is 222 00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:32.799 that, you know, as as antiquated as balloons seemed to be, And 223 00:17:32.839 --> 00:17:36.480 I even said that at the time, weird, it seemed like almost nobody 224 00:17:36.559 --> 00:17:41.240 knew what the potential was for whatever that thing could do. The total terror 225 00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:45.200 some people were in. Yeah, and our government did not seem to have 226 00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:48.920 a handle on it. They seemed a little confused, right, I mean, 227 00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:52.440 this thing made it across a lot of land, you know, before 228 00:17:53.079 --> 00:17:56.480 it was eventually taken down. And just for the record, you're correct, 229 00:17:56.519 --> 00:18:02.319 July nineteen forty seven, there was some stuff recovered that was metallic debris man 230 00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:08.079 and stuff like that. Well do you remember the story of Betty and Barney 231 00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:14.240 Hill. That name is very familiar, but but tell me about it. 232 00:18:14.920 --> 00:18:18.720 So they were let me look up to you the exact year. It was 233 00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:25.400 in the sixties, Okay, Betty, I'm sorry Betty and Barney. I 234 00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:29.960 think it was. I think, I said, Betty, let me see 235 00:18:29.960 --> 00:18:34.519 what year this happened, nineteen sixty one. So like the whole UFO thing 236 00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:41.480 that we grew up with was these stories about people getting abducted and probed, 237 00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:47.759 you know, taking to the space saucers or whatever, and the grays would 238 00:18:47.799 --> 00:18:53.279 look at them with their big eyes and probe them basically molesque people more or 239 00:18:53.400 --> 00:18:57.839 less, and then they would show up naked, you know, on the 240 00:18:57.920 --> 00:19:03.400 road or something. But dropped off by the spacemen and they wouldn't have any 241 00:19:03.440 --> 00:19:07.119 memory what happened, and they'd had to go see psychiatrists or something, and 242 00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:11.759 then they remember what happened. And I mean in multiple stories like this, 243 00:19:11.839 --> 00:19:15.839 there's some movie made it. Two or three movies made about it. Communion. 244 00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:19.240 Well, the biggest one was Firing the Sky Fire and the Sky came 245 00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:26.000 after Communion. Communion Note was the best selling book and then made into a 246 00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:30.079 movie. But anyway, these stories were ones that were kind of big in 247 00:19:30.079 --> 00:19:37.000 the eighties. But the original version of this is the Betting and Barney Hills 248 00:19:37.039 --> 00:19:42.279 story, and they told the story in nineteen sixty one. They're out in 249 00:19:42.359 --> 00:19:49.799 the countryside somewhere driving and when they got back home, they noticed that they 250 00:19:49.839 --> 00:19:55.839 had lost a couple hours of their life that they couldn't account for, you 251 00:19:55.920 --> 00:20:02.160 know, And then they ended up seeing a psychiatrist, and under intense hypnosis, 252 00:20:03.039 --> 00:20:10.599 um, they told they remembered um supposedly that the spaceship landed in front 253 00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:15.039 of their truck or car or whatever when they're going down the road and they 254 00:20:15.079 --> 00:20:18.200 got out and one of them was taken up in the ship. I think 255 00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:23.960 it was the demand And basically you know, put on an operating table and 256 00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:29.039 molested by the aliens. That's what That's what they're to me, that's what 257 00:20:29.119 --> 00:20:30.759 they're describing. Well, if you don't mind. And even though I hate 258 00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:34.640 Wikipedia, I almost feel like they did a good synopsis. I could return 259 00:20:34.720 --> 00:20:40.000 that real quickly, just to lay it out. And it's interesting because remember, 260 00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:42.319 these are tropes now, and not you, Mike, but the listener. 261 00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:47.400 These are tropes now that that really carried on through the seventies, eighties, 262 00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:51.599 and nineties. That were extremely common. You know, even jokes in 263 00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:55.759 pop culture right if you're down south somewhere on a fishing boat and you're probably 264 00:20:55.799 --> 00:20:59.960 gonna get abducted, you know, like a southern uh, you know, 265 00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:03.680 sort of Hicks getting getting abducted right all the time. That was like a 266 00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:07.880 comedy trope. You could see it on The Simpsons and comedy skits and stuff. 267 00:21:07.160 --> 00:21:11.000 Anyway, back to the original incident according to Wikipedia now, and I've 268 00:21:11.079 --> 00:21:15.640 dropped that link in the live chat room at o'chelly dot com, so I'm 269 00:21:15.640 --> 00:21:19.400 gonna read from it briefly. Barney and Betty Hill were an American couple who 270 00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:25.920 claimed they were abducted by extraterrestrials in a rural portion of the state of New 271 00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:27.400 Hampshire. Now let me pause for a second. Now, this is in 272 00:21:27.480 --> 00:21:33.079 New Hampshire, and most of these things occurred in rural areas. It was 273 00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:37.079 most often taught of to be like you know, Arkansas and Louisiana and places 274 00:21:37.119 --> 00:21:41.480 like in Georgia, places like that, but always in these rural areas, 275 00:21:41.599 --> 00:21:45.799 Okay, not heavily populated areas. Back to it. They were from the 276 00:21:45.799 --> 00:21:52.799 state of New Hampshire from September nineteen to twenty of nineteen sixty one, and 277 00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:56.119 that's when they claimed the abduction was. The incident came to be called the 278 00:21:56.240 --> 00:22:04.079 Hill Abduction in quotes and the Zeta Reticuli incident. Okay, Well, it 279 00:22:04.599 --> 00:22:11.119 says because two ufologists connected the star maps shown to Betty Hill with the Zeta 280 00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:15.160 Reticuli system. Okay, okay. Their story was adapted into a best selling 281 00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:21.880 nineteen sixty six book, The Interrupted Journey and the nineteen seventy five television film 282 00:22:22.279 --> 00:22:26.240 The UFO Incident. Most of Betty Hill's notes, tapes, and other items 283 00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:30.680 have been placed in the permanent collection of the University of New Hampshire. Her 284 00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:36.599 Alma mater. In July twenty eleven, the new the New Hampshire Division of 285 00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:42.480 Historical Resources marked the site of the alleged craft's first approach with the historical marker. 286 00:22:44.079 --> 00:22:47.680 The Hill's story was widely published in books and movies. And then it 287 00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:51.880 goes on, you know with UFO encounter and different different things. You know, 288 00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:55.000 their their history a little bit and so on and so forth, as 289 00:22:55.000 --> 00:23:00.960 Wikipedia does background so on. Um, but these incidents, these became a 290 00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:04.720 common thing. It was even again like another pop culture joke where the daytime 291 00:23:04.759 --> 00:23:11.680 TV shows you're Haraldos, you're Phil Donihue's right. The trash here shows that 292 00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:17.960 that miniment Phill donni Hue, which you can the point I make. Yeah, 293 00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:22.039 that's everything you described that so correct. Yeah, it's just I'm pretty 294 00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:27.680 certain that their story that you know, nineteen sixty what was it one, 295 00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:30.759 is that what we were saying in nineteen sixty one is when the incident occurred. 296 00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:36.720 Yeah, yeah, this this nineteen sixty one story incident who however you 297 00:23:36.799 --> 00:23:40.599 want to phrase it, but it happened in nineteen sixty one before they were 298 00:23:40.599 --> 00:23:45.400 the very first people to ever stare at tell a story about being abducted losing 299 00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:52.079 their memory, being probe molested, and so forth. There was a story. 300 00:23:52.440 --> 00:23:55.680 I'll tell you. I mean, let's tell you. I have no 301 00:23:55.759 --> 00:23:57.319 interest in this stuff, but as a child, I was. I don't, 302 00:23:57.440 --> 00:24:00.319 I don't. I didn't really believe it, but I was. I 303 00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:03.720 would read a lot of these books about the ufos's. I know, you 304 00:24:03.799 --> 00:24:07.279 found it interesting. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with it. As a kid, 305 00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:10.079 you found it interesting. Yeah. And the truth is, this is 306 00:24:10.119 --> 00:24:12.720 the first one that got a lot of attention. Yeah, it got huge 307 00:24:12.759 --> 00:24:18.440 attention. But before them, there were you know, really is right after 308 00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:23.519 World War Two, there was a wave of UFO sightings, right, but 309 00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:30.119 they were different, Like I think, if I remember correctly, the very 310 00:24:30.200 --> 00:24:34.680 first story of someone going up in the UFO um it was right after, 311 00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:41.200 you know, right months after the war. And at the time there's one 312 00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:47.279 theory that there is all these masks UFO sightings because people are scared of nuclear 313 00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:51.960 bombs and because which they were new, you know, they're scared of nuclear 314 00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:56.119 war arm again. And so at the time, immediately after the war, 315 00:24:57.079 --> 00:25:04.519 the all the story as I know of of people encountering aliens in person, 316 00:25:06.039 --> 00:25:10.720 you know, were that the aliens were friendly and that they look like people. 317 00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:17.400 So like there's a story where someone says they got invited into a spaceship 318 00:25:17.480 --> 00:25:21.880 and they went up and the people said they were from Venus, and they 319 00:25:22.319 --> 00:25:26.599 like went there and flew around and it was like and they looked like people, 320 00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:29.799 you know, humans, and it was like a party, and they 321 00:25:29.839 --> 00:25:33.440 came back home and you know whatever told tell those story. And then but 322 00:25:33.559 --> 00:25:40.559 the Betty and Barney Hill story, these aliens were vicious and I mean hell, 323 00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:45.079 I mean, this is creatures from hell and um. And they were 324 00:25:45.079 --> 00:25:49.519 the first ones, as far as I know of, to tell that story, 325 00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:55.880 which is the story that dominated in the and when we were young in 326 00:25:55.920 --> 00:25:59.720 the nineteen eighties, and obviously this was a huge story in the sixties and 327 00:25:59.799 --> 00:26:04.160 say seventies. It must have probably faded away and then was revived by different 328 00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:11.039 people, I guess when we were teenagers or whatever. Well, look, 329 00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:17.319 I'm at jstr dot org just to take a look at a piece on this 330 00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:21.799 particular information, and I'll just read from the abstract real fast. I'll put 331 00:26:21.799 --> 00:26:26.240 this link in the chat room also, But this is an interesting attempt to 332 00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:30.720 do an academic job on collecting the information. First person reports is from the 333 00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:37.319 abstract, and I'll post that in just a second. First person reports of 334 00:26:37.359 --> 00:26:41.960 abductions by UFO occupants have grown in number during the past few years and constitute 335 00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:48.680 an unusually well structured legend type. These accounts share many motives with legends of 336 00:26:48.759 --> 00:26:56.119 supernatural encounters and otherworldly journeys, but reconcile the fantastic elements with a supposedly alien 337 00:26:56.200 --> 00:27:03.039 technology to settle comfortably among the UFO lore. Now, let me pause for 338 00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:07.079 a second to remember that we were also confronted with those talk shows showing us 339 00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:10.440 you know, yes, I was abducted this and that, but also cattle 340 00:27:10.519 --> 00:27:14.799 mutilations. That was a big thing. I don't hear about those anymore, 341 00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:18.400 but seemingly strange cattle mutilations, where like all the blood had been And I 342 00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:22.440 know you and I were probably reading the same things as kids. It was 343 00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:27.319 everywhere in the seventies and eighties, anyway. The Journal of American Folklore, 344 00:27:29.160 --> 00:27:33.839 the quarterly journal of American Folklore Society since the society's founding in eighteen eighty eight, 345 00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:38.920 publishes scholarly articles, essays, notes, and commentaries directed to a wide 346 00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:42.880 audience, as well as separate sections devoted to reviews, of books. Okay, 347 00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:47.640 this is about the journal that this is printed in. I'm skipping around 348 00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:52.279 a bit, but I find this interesting that there are people talking about this, 349 00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:57.680 and there are actually attempts to study this from an academic point of view, 350 00:27:59.400 --> 00:28:02.759 to collect them together, because there are common elements that start emerging. 351 00:28:03.079 --> 00:28:07.319 And it is highly suspect in my mind that this stuff starts happen a lot 352 00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:12.480 right around World War Two, the conclusion of World War Two, where the 353 00:28:12.559 --> 00:28:17.599 beginning of the Cold War is happening. So a paranoia is there. Now. 354 00:28:17.599 --> 00:28:19.200 I'm not saying that you know, Russians or Aliens or anything, but 355 00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:25.880 an outside threat that could emerge from the sky. Right, we had been 356 00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:29.160 treated to the air raid kind of concept, the fact that there was that 357 00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:33.359 civil air defense, right and all that kind of stuff. You know, 358 00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:34.960 on the West coast they talked about, you know, turning out the lights 359 00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:38.480 and stuff. World War two. Again, this is before our era, 360 00:28:40.400 --> 00:28:45.359 so it's a different time to put it in context when this gets started. 361 00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:48.640 But it didn't stop for quite a long time. This continued on and on, 362 00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:52.440 many people reporting they had been abducted, this and that, and then 363 00:28:52.440 --> 00:28:56.680 of course you can get into the arguments about false memory syndrome, because we 364 00:28:56.759 --> 00:29:00.759 also got treated to the descriptions about how these people would go to psychiatrists, 365 00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:06.799 psychologists and they would have to get it out of them under hypnosis. They 366 00:29:06.839 --> 00:29:10.799 would find out about the aliens. But a consistent thing was happening there with 367 00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:15.559 the loss of time. All that stuff all comes in this package, so 368 00:29:15.960 --> 00:29:18.640 it's not just a matter of, Hey, the aliens came and grabbed me 369 00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:22.039 and stuck something up my butt. And the story although anal probing another big 370 00:29:22.119 --> 00:29:26.279 joke, right, Mike, That's always been one of the big jokes. 371 00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:30.359 Did they did they antally probia? You know, the first South Park episode 372 00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:37.680 to ever air involves aliens probing Cartman. I'm just saying it becomes a pop 373 00:29:37.720 --> 00:29:44.279 culture and a subculture mythos that has some consistent elements to it. And I 374 00:29:44.319 --> 00:29:47.519 just put the journal article in the live chat room at o'chelly dot com. 375 00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:49.680 Sorry, I just wanted to fill that all in. What are your thoughts 376 00:29:51.079 --> 00:29:56.119 though, perfect Well, as far as I'm concerned, there's there's a famous 377 00:29:56.160 --> 00:30:03.200 psychiatrist call Young and you know, I think, I mean he was one 378 00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:07.519 of the big most important psychiatrists of the twentieth century. He came up with 379 00:30:07.559 --> 00:30:15.000 the idea of a collective unconscious like that was a I think he coined that 380 00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:19.000 phrase. But he wrote a book I'm not I'm trying to find when it 381 00:30:19.119 --> 00:30:23.440 was, maybe in the fifties, probably in the fifties, but about the 382 00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:27.759 UFOs, and it was called flying saucers. That's what they were in the 383 00:30:27.799 --> 00:30:37.279 forties, flying saucers. And his whole theory was that people were just so 384 00:30:37.400 --> 00:30:44.200 disturbed by World War two and and and the atomic bomb that what they were 385 00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:48.039 doing, and the loss of faith in religion because of everything that happened. 386 00:30:48.079 --> 00:30:56.240 I suppose some people lost faith in society and just you know, all kinds 387 00:30:56.240 --> 00:31:03.799 of things, and that some of these people Dufo and the alien could save 388 00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:07.920 us, you know, yeah, I mean. And there's entire movies like 389 00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:12.680 The Day the Earth Stood Still, which is one of the biggest movies about 390 00:31:12.759 --> 00:31:18.279 science fiction movies in nineteen fifties. The whole story is this demand comes in 391 00:31:18.319 --> 00:31:23.160 a flying saucer parts in front of Washington, d C. Comes out, 392 00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:29.160 and the army comes around. I think they try to shoot him and they 393 00:31:29.599 --> 00:31:33.319 fail at that, and it's all about him telling him, you're gonna blow 394 00:31:33.400 --> 00:31:36.799 up the world if you keep doing this crap, and maybe it would. 395 00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:41.079 You know, it's a good maybe. You know, if only that was 396 00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:44.000 real, you know that was a real thing, someone could come down and 397 00:31:44.039 --> 00:31:48.400 do that. Well, and this goes in that's a movie, well true, 398 00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:51.039 true, look, and this goes in all different directions, Mike, 399 00:31:51.079 --> 00:31:53.960 because I think the idea of the fear of this, you know, the 400 00:31:55.240 --> 00:31:59.119 great communist threat, the invisible enemy that you got to worry about, and 401 00:31:59.119 --> 00:32:02.000 the fact that people were taught to look overhead and be afraid and duck and 402 00:32:02.119 --> 00:32:07.480 cover, be ready for the weapons. Certainly, that's another thing that people 403 00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:09.039 have brought into play here where it's like, maybe they could be the great 404 00:32:09.079 --> 00:32:13.839 Savior. Of course they would be technologically more advanced, they might be more 405 00:32:13.880 --> 00:32:16.799 intelligent. If they're that intelligent, maybe they don't want to bother with us, 406 00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:22.079 you know, because we're still savage animals all that. Okay, I 407 00:32:22.160 --> 00:32:24.119 get that. And then we get into you know, stuff like Project Blue 408 00:32:24.119 --> 00:32:29.000 Beam, where you know, people have claimed that one day they were going 409 00:32:29.039 --> 00:32:32.720 to conduct an alien invasion, right, but a fake one. They were 410 00:32:32.720 --> 00:32:37.480 going to create a fake alien invasion to get the whole world to comply. 411 00:32:37.759 --> 00:32:43.119 Some people have looked at this as a way to unify humanity. Even see 412 00:32:43.160 --> 00:32:45.559 now I can get right in the star Trek if I want to gene Roddenberry's 413 00:32:45.599 --> 00:32:49.720 overall vision of a unified Earth. Now, some people look at that as 414 00:32:49.720 --> 00:32:52.119 oh, that's a new world order. But other people say, once we 415 00:32:52.200 --> 00:32:59.400 learned that there were other creatures out there, other planets, we kind of 416 00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:01.119 figure out that, hey, you know what, we're actually all together on 417 00:33:01.160 --> 00:33:07.000 this one planet. Maybe we should work together more, you know, and 418 00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:12.039 worry about those guys out there, because we have no idea where they're coming 419 00:33:12.079 --> 00:33:15.480 from. But at least we can speak common languages here. At least we're 420 00:33:15.519 --> 00:33:19.720 the same kind of animals and creatures here. Who knows what the hell's out 421 00:33:19.720 --> 00:33:22.640 there? Maybe for our own defense, and again that was another reason to 422 00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:25.960 justify space for us. But I'm saying this goes all over the place. 423 00:33:27.400 --> 00:33:31.079 I don't know too many people that thought about it as as a kid thinking 424 00:33:31.079 --> 00:33:35.519 about it, Mike, I don't remember people that thought about the aliens as 425 00:33:36.680 --> 00:33:38.720 these saviors that we're going to show up. I know some movies did that 426 00:33:38.759 --> 00:33:44.079 and whatnot, But mostly I saw people be more afraid, you know, 427 00:33:44.119 --> 00:33:47.000 what would happen. They could take us out Mars attacked, they think is 428 00:33:47.920 --> 00:33:52.039 right after World War I think the belief and the aliens or what they are 429 00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:58.359 changes over time. And I think his argument that people thought that they could 430 00:33:58.359 --> 00:34:02.200 be good and saviors, I think that was actually commonplace right after World War 431 00:34:02.279 --> 00:34:06.640 Two. That might have been a weird idea then, but I think as 432 00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:10.360 the times change, yeas the time change is it gets people become more scared 433 00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:14.440 of them, people adapted into different things. I mean to think back to 434 00:34:14.840 --> 00:34:19.840 War the World's Right, where people did actually panic a little bit after that 435 00:34:19.960 --> 00:34:23.880 radio broadcast. That's you know what, fifteen years before the end of World 436 00:34:23.960 --> 00:34:28.719 War two, right that that was going on, and people bought it. 437 00:34:29.280 --> 00:34:32.559 Some people did. People were legitimately afraid, thinking this was really happening. 438 00:34:35.239 --> 00:34:38.639 So you know what I'm saying, And generally speaking, when you look at 439 00:34:38.679 --> 00:34:43.000 these movies, you know it is more of the Twilight Zone thing. Hey 440 00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:46.280 we're here to serve man. Yeah, it's a cookbook, you know what 441 00:34:46.320 --> 00:34:50.599 I'm saying. I mean, from the Twilight Zone onto Hey, maybe the 442 00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:52.639 aliens are good friends. Oh no, they're fattening us up because they're going 443 00:34:52.679 --> 00:34:57.880 to eat us. Some movies they want to take all our water. Somebody 444 00:34:57.880 --> 00:35:01.000 mentioned in the chat room, by the way, that Reticuli was also the 445 00:35:01.039 --> 00:35:06.800 star solar system in the original Alien movie that Ridley Scott used in the first 446 00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:13.519 movie in nineteen seventy nine. It was paying homage to the first UFO stories. 447 00:35:13.599 --> 00:35:15.960 Okay, this is what they say here, I'm reading from the chat 448 00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:21.280 room. The jet age began in nineteen forty seven. This was probably a 449 00:35:21.320 --> 00:35:25.280 reason for sightings. Jet jets were sci fi. Yeah, we'll think about 450 00:35:25.320 --> 00:35:30.159 that too, Mike, Right, jet engines, the incredible speed at which 451 00:35:30.159 --> 00:35:32.599 they were able to fly. If nobody ever saw one of those before. 452 00:35:34.199 --> 00:35:40.320 I know that when an occasional jet ended up in the German Luftwaff mixed in 453 00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:45.880 with their formations, it freaked out some of our guys that were flying Mustangs, 454 00:35:45.880 --> 00:35:51.079 right, so you know, and those are pilots used to seeing things 455 00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:54.199 in the air. When the guy on the ground sees this thing whippy real 456 00:35:54.280 --> 00:35:58.920 fast, it might have seemed like, oh my god, that's something like 457 00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:02.639 totally alien because we only had planes for thirty forty years before that, right, 458 00:36:04.760 --> 00:36:07.159 So you know what I'm saying. There's a lot of different ways to 459 00:36:07.159 --> 00:36:12.119 break this down. Um, but the alien abduction thing I always thought was 460 00:36:12.159 --> 00:36:15.400 a little different. And of course, yes, we can get into the 461 00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:21.000 psychology of false memory syndrome and Dunna DA and how much manipulation under hypnosis actually 462 00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:23.159 takes place. And then again, maybe there were some people that were just 463 00:36:23.199 --> 00:36:28.760 seeking attention that you know, we're almost like you know, Jerry Springer, 464 00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:30.800 they didn't quite let people beat each other up on TV yet. So this 465 00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:36.239 is the way you got on TV from the trailer park back then. Uh, 466 00:36:36.559 --> 00:36:38.599 stuff like that, Mike, right, I mean all of this is 467 00:36:38.679 --> 00:36:43.599 part of this discussion. Meanwhile, we started with congressional hearings and now we're 468 00:36:43.639 --> 00:36:46.119 onto this. But well, no, I mean it is. Yeah, 469 00:36:46.119 --> 00:36:51.800 I mean I'll connected to congressional hearings. So here's a little fat fact. 470 00:36:51.800 --> 00:36:54.719 I'm going got a list of them to Yeah, I haven't thought of it 471 00:36:54.800 --> 00:36:59.960 this stuff in so long. I was buying time. I was buying time. 472 00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:02.119 There was stuff up, but I was just saying I was buying time 473 00:37:02.159 --> 00:37:05.079 for you to go look stuff up. That was part of what I was 474 00:37:05.119 --> 00:37:08.760 just doing. Go ahead, So yeah, nineteen there's there's several she really 475 00:37:08.840 --> 00:37:15.079 key incidents. Is that happened in nineteen forty six nineteen forty seven. Um, 476 00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:16.719 and the one else talking about the guy goes up in the ship and 477 00:37:16.760 --> 00:37:22.119 comes down to go to Venus. That's when that happened. But there was 478 00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:27.920 interested here's a here's the connection of someone we we your listeners may know of 479 00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:32.559 the Murray Island incident that was in nineteen forty seven. Yeah, yeah, 480 00:37:32.599 --> 00:37:37.480 yeah, okay, okay, So you're gonna tell that whole story, not 481 00:37:37.599 --> 00:37:40.800 the whole thing, I just but that that involved that's in Washington State. 482 00:37:42.599 --> 00:37:49.480 Um, and that's the one with Fred Christen and who later becomes a suspect 483 00:37:49.639 --> 00:37:53.559 or figure of interest in the Kenny sass nation during the Garrison investigation. But 484 00:37:53.639 --> 00:38:07.800 the funny thing he was a he was investigating the thing and he claimed that 485 00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:15.000 men in black home to stop investigating. So he's the guy, this Fred 486 00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:20.519 Chrisman, who invented the men in black story. He's the first guy to 487 00:38:20.559 --> 00:38:24.360 come out with the story about these mysterious men in black. And again that's 488 00:38:24.400 --> 00:38:29.440 a whole other area of folklore where men and black don't just show up because 489 00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:32.559 of aliens, by the way, and they don't look like Will Smith just 490 00:38:32.719 --> 00:38:38.519 saying okay, but they show up and they're weird, not even fully human 491 00:38:39.039 --> 00:38:43.199 in a lot of accounts, right, They're very strange. You have this 492 00:38:43.519 --> 00:38:49.079 other problem with time dilation. People lose time. People they can't identify them. 493 00:38:49.119 --> 00:38:52.000 They seem to be I'm not sure what the guy looked like. They 494 00:38:52.039 --> 00:38:55.320 all look the same, and they were weird. They there was noises I 495 00:38:55.360 --> 00:39:00.480 heard, and they acted very strangely, and they seemed to disappear as soon 496 00:39:00.519 --> 00:39:02.639 as they appeared. They didn't drive away. You know, all kinds of 497 00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:06.639 weird stuff like that, right, I mean in these accounts over the years, 498 00:39:07.199 --> 00:39:10.840 yep. And I'm reading about the Murray Island, isn't it says that 499 00:39:10.840 --> 00:39:20.280 that is where the term flying saucer was coined. So this guy, Raymond 500 00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:25.199 what's his name, Raymond All, Kenneth Arnold, Kenneth Arnold, Yeah, 501 00:39:25.960 --> 00:39:34.719 he claimed he saw a saucer flying past Mount Rainier at twelve hundred miles an 502 00:39:34.719 --> 00:39:45.159 hour and that it opened up and it began to eject thousands of That doesn't 503 00:39:45.239 --> 00:39:50.400 really understand. It doesn't make sense to me. What seemed like thousands of 504 00:39:50.480 --> 00:39:57.199 newspapers from from spewing out outside of it, and it came down to the 505 00:39:57.239 --> 00:40:02.960 earth and it turned out their pieces the metal that resembled rocks, and he 506 00:40:04.039 --> 00:40:08.800 was in a boat, just the guy that saw this, and the rocks 507 00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:14.760 hit his boat and killed a dog. And Fred chris this is what Fred 508 00:40:14.840 --> 00:40:21.079 Chrisman investigated this. This is the Murray Island. It's yeah no I And 509 00:40:21.199 --> 00:40:23.800 by the way, if somebody said uh in the chat room, Fred Krisman 510 00:40:23.920 --> 00:40:27.000 was the man in black, I didn't say that. What I what I 511 00:40:27.039 --> 00:40:30.760 said was that Chrisman invented that story. Let me read to you from something 512 00:40:30.800 --> 00:40:34.280 I have here though, if you don't mind, again just to add to 513 00:40:34.320 --> 00:40:37.559 this because on muck rock, okay, muck rock dot com, and I 514 00:40:37.599 --> 00:40:39.800 put the again the link in the chat room at o'chelly dot com. I'll 515 00:40:39.840 --> 00:40:44.360 try and include this stuff with the show notes. But there's some interesting stuff 516 00:40:44.400 --> 00:40:49.119 here with snippets of documents from this article, which is titled FBI's Real life 517 00:40:49.159 --> 00:40:54.840 quote x files end quote documents strange connection between UFOs and the jfk assassination. 518 00:40:54.880 --> 00:41:01.800 Okay, a rare glimpse inside bureau's security quote in Security Matter x end quote 519 00:41:01.800 --> 00:41:07.920 files show the investigation of Fred Lee Chrisman and his tales of flying saucers. 520 00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:13.840 Okay, a version of This article appeared on Glamor Disclosure. Okay, years 521 00:41:13.840 --> 00:41:15.800 ago, I heard rumors about this is from that article. Years ago. 522 00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:21.960 I heard rumors about some of the FBI's older files, and the author here 523 00:41:22.159 --> 00:41:28.960 is Emma North hyphen best older files which were curiously labeled smash X or Security 524 00:41:28.960 --> 00:41:31.920 Matter X. Like the X files, these dealt with some strange topics. 525 00:41:31.960 --> 00:41:39.000 The two examples I was told about where FBO were UFI excuse me, UFOs 526 00:41:39.159 --> 00:41:45.920 and l Ron Hubbard. This, of course was too strange or not file 527 00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:51.480 a Foyer request for but the FBI denied being able to find the records for 528 00:41:51.559 --> 00:41:54.159 obvious reasons. I wasn't eager to beget a big fight over the existence of 529 00:41:54.199 --> 00:41:59.320 secret files on alien invasions based on a rumors, so I took a different 530 00:41:59.360 --> 00:42:02.480 route, requesting the FBI file for one of the people involved in a lot 531 00:42:02.480 --> 00:42:07.920 of strange stories, including the Morey Island incident cited as an example of one 532 00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:14.159 of the SMX files and get paid off. Now there's a snippet of a 533 00:42:14.199 --> 00:42:17.039 memorandum here in the article, and I'll go back to it. The man's 534 00:42:17.119 --> 00:42:22.079 name was Fred Lee Chrisman, and he's every bit as weird a character from 535 00:42:22.079 --> 00:42:24.760 The X Files. Throughout his life, Chrisman appeared in at least half a 536 00:42:24.800 --> 00:42:30.000 dozen conspiracy theories and stories of high weirdness. One of his earliest strange stories 537 00:42:30.039 --> 00:42:36.400 apparently involved freeing himself from a cave in Burma during World War Two, where 538 00:42:36.400 --> 00:42:39.920 he was held by quote evil underground creatures end quote. From there, the 539 00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:45.599 stories around him just get stranger. The story of Chrisman and Security Matter X 540 00:42:45.679 --> 00:42:52.159 begins with the aforementioned Morey Island incident and alleged UFOs citing and crash that occurred 541 00:42:52.239 --> 00:42:57.119 about a month before the events at Roswell. According to various versions of the 542 00:42:57.239 --> 00:43:02.119 legend, Morey Island involved one or more UFOs that either dropped something or disintegrated, 543 00:43:02.679 --> 00:43:07.960 the fragments of which damaged Chrisman's boat, killed a dog just like Mike 544 00:43:07.039 --> 00:43:12.440 said, and an in parentheses, according to some versions and parentheses, hurt 545 00:43:12.519 --> 00:43:17.760 someone. Subsequently, Chrisman and Harold Doll, the other apparent witness, were 546 00:43:17.800 --> 00:43:22.679 approached by quote men in black end quote, one of the instances that helped 547 00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:28.719 popularize the legend. The story then gained additional coverage when a government plane crashed 548 00:43:29.320 --> 00:43:32.440 a plane which was said to be carrying fragments from the Morey Island incident. 549 00:43:32.920 --> 00:43:38.039 The FBI file on Chrisman indicates that the bureau quickly determined the matter was a 550 00:43:38.119 --> 00:43:45.760 hoax, though the file is careful to note that Doll quote did not admit 551 00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:49.760 that his story was a hoax, but only stated that if questioned by the 552 00:43:49.800 --> 00:43:52.360 authorities, he was going to say it was a hoax because he did not 553 00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:58.159 want any further trouble over the matter. End quote. Okay. And then 554 00:43:58.199 --> 00:44:04.760 there's a snippet from a file here BI Seattle eight Dash fourteen forty seven, 555 00:44:05.239 --> 00:44:09.719 which is the date and anyway, five fifteen pm. Here's what this snippet 556 00:44:09.760 --> 00:44:16.079 shows. Flying discs cited by Fred Chrisman and Harold A. Doll, Tacoma, 557 00:44:16.159 --> 00:44:22.480 Washington, smx Rurtel instance date. Okay, I don't know what that 558 00:44:22.480 --> 00:44:28.960 means exactly. Please be advised that Doll did not admit to Smith that his 559 00:44:29.079 --> 00:44:31.639 story was a hoax, but only stated that if questioned by authorities, he 560 00:44:31.719 --> 00:44:36.519 was going to say it was a hoax because he did not want any further 561 00:44:36.559 --> 00:44:42.840 trouble over the matter. Complete report now en route to Bureau AMSD, which 562 00:44:42.960 --> 00:44:47.480 indicates probably Chrisman or Doll made the anonymous phone call in the hope of building 563 00:44:47.559 --> 00:44:52.719 up their story through publicity to a point where they could make a profitable deal 564 00:44:52.920 --> 00:45:00.639 with Fantasy Magazine, Chicago, Illinois. Doll and Chrisman will not be reinterviewed 565 00:45:00.800 --> 00:45:07.119 unless advised to the and then something is crossed out here contrary by the Bureau. 566 00:45:07.519 --> 00:45:15.199 Willcox a and hold please okay. The next portion of the article reads, 567 00:45:15.239 --> 00:45:19.119 the air Force denied responsibility for the sightings and asserted there were no credible 568 00:45:19.119 --> 00:45:22.639 reports of flying discs in the area. The FBI's investigation agreed with this and 569 00:45:22.760 --> 00:45:28.159 concluded that the plane was definitely not carrying parts of a disc. That's about 570 00:45:28.159 --> 00:45:31.880 the plane crash. The memo sighted above as labeled copies destroyed and although it 571 00:45:31.960 --> 00:45:36.920 was written the same day of the memo stating that Doll did not admit the 572 00:45:36.960 --> 00:45:40.920 matter was a hoax, and attached memo states that both Doll and Chrisman admitted 573 00:45:40.960 --> 00:45:45.480 there were no discs. According to this memo, the materials found by Chrisman 574 00:45:45.519 --> 00:45:51.800 and Doll were simply quote strange rock formations end quote, they found in a 575 00:45:51.880 --> 00:45:55.679 gravel pit on Morey Island, and that Dal wrote a false letter claiming the 576 00:45:55.719 --> 00:46:00.079 material came from a flying disc and that they have been paid to say as 577 00:46:00.159 --> 00:46:06.440 much. This version of events is also memorialized in a statement signed by Chrisman 578 00:46:06.960 --> 00:46:10.320 and given to the FBI. Again, I'll give you the link to this 579 00:46:10.400 --> 00:46:14.159 in the live chat room at o'chelly dot com. There's more in the article. 580 00:46:14.679 --> 00:46:20.400 But I find this interesting, Okay, that this is what goes down 581 00:46:20.440 --> 00:46:27.800 here. And of course Chrisman does have a fascinating history JFK assassination and otherwise 582 00:46:27.960 --> 00:46:31.960 of making some extraordinary claims. But again, often we find that those claims 583 00:46:31.960 --> 00:46:37.800 are not easily backed by this little troublesome thing called evidence. M Mike. 584 00:46:37.079 --> 00:46:39.840 So, I know, I probably just bored you to death with that and 585 00:46:39.880 --> 00:46:43.639 took up a bunch of time, but I thought it was good for the 586 00:46:43.679 --> 00:46:46.679 context that you're talking about. That's one problem I have with these Almost all 587 00:46:46.679 --> 00:46:53.280 these characters that tell these stories. Betty and Barney Hill are an exception, 588 00:46:53.920 --> 00:47:00.960 but almost all of them have some strange background that defense industry. Yeah, 589 00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:06.760 background in the defense industry, some weird angle where they're trying to make money 590 00:47:06.800 --> 00:47:09.559 with it. There's only yeah, there's only like a couple of them that 591 00:47:09.599 --> 00:47:14.880 are like just legitimate, everyday people that if you don't, you know, 592 00:47:14.920 --> 00:47:16.840 you track them down and you find out, like you said, they're connected 593 00:47:16.880 --> 00:47:22.880 to the defense industry, They're connected to you know, other weird circumstances. 594 00:47:22.920 --> 00:47:25.760 You know, turns out the same guy that says he was abducted also got 595 00:47:25.800 --> 00:47:30.840 knocked down by Bigfoot. You know, I mean, weird stuff all the 596 00:47:30.920 --> 00:47:35.519 time with these things, and this is why I don't usually cover it on 597 00:47:35.559 --> 00:47:37.039 the show. To be honest with you, I don't cover much of this 598 00:47:37.079 --> 00:47:40.280 stuff. Occasionally I'll get into it, but I don't cover it on the 599 00:47:40.280 --> 00:47:45.239 show because most of the time I find it to be silly. You know, 600 00:47:45.760 --> 00:47:47.519 it's weird. You know, Guy Banister has tied to that Morey Island 601 00:47:47.559 --> 00:47:52.599 thing too, because I think it was actually well, he was he had 602 00:47:52.639 --> 00:47:57.800 been part of that investigation somehow. I memory is not serving me as to 603 00:47:57.920 --> 00:48:01.599 exactly how he was, right, but Guy Banister was somehow tied to that 604 00:48:01.679 --> 00:48:05.599 investigation. I mean, he might have just been in charge of some agent 605 00:48:05.639 --> 00:48:08.159 that was dispatched to do something or whatever, because remember he had been an 606 00:48:08.159 --> 00:48:14.239 FBI agent out of Chicago, right. So you know, I'm just saying 607 00:48:14.760 --> 00:48:17.159 weird stuff goes on with a lot of these cases. And for a little 608 00:48:17.159 --> 00:48:21.559 while there were people popping up all over the place. You know, they 609 00:48:21.559 --> 00:48:24.119 would lose track of time and then uh, you know, they disappeared for 610 00:48:24.159 --> 00:48:27.440 two days. And I thought a lot of times it was you know, 611 00:48:27.559 --> 00:48:30.039 some old, good old boy trying to cover up the fact that he had 612 00:48:30.039 --> 00:48:34.519 been running around on his wife, you know, got drunk and lost track 613 00:48:34.559 --> 00:48:37.840 of days and shows up two days later. Well, honey, I couldn't 614 00:48:37.840 --> 00:48:39.719 have made it home, buddy. I'm just repeat about the Crisman guy. 615 00:48:39.920 --> 00:48:45.159 Yeah, someone's made a cartoon comedy out of him. Yeah, okay, 616 00:48:45.199 --> 00:48:53.559 where's that at. It's called Fred Crisman Cave of the Space Nazis. Okay, 617 00:48:53.639 --> 00:48:59.559 well, it's the description of it said, I have to watch it, 618 00:48:59.599 --> 00:49:06.800 but it's is this. The first scene sees Fred Crisman broadcrafting from radio. 619 00:49:07.199 --> 00:49:10.920 He tells his listeners he was not involved in Kenny assassination, saying I 620 00:49:10.960 --> 00:49:19.239 could never have performed such a stunt alone. Well, okay, he says, 621 00:49:19.400 --> 00:49:22.480 this is a real thing, act that the earth from aliens. You 622 00:49:22.639 --> 00:49:27.400 doubt me if you don't believe that I protected the world from the aliens. 623 00:49:27.400 --> 00:49:30.280 And I said, we ask you where are they. I don't see any 624 00:49:30.360 --> 00:49:35.559 here. You're welcome. Yeah, okay, And I just went over to 625 00:49:35.599 --> 00:49:39.599 IMDb really quick to check this out because IMB's a good resource. And um 626 00:49:40.559 --> 00:49:47.119 yeah, Fred Chrisman volume War apparently Cave of the Space Nazis uh is a 627 00:49:47.519 --> 00:49:52.519 let's see what can we get the synopsis here? Um, let's see writers 628 00:49:52.519 --> 00:49:58.920 direct director is uh Brian Shickley, which I think somehow I run across him 629 00:49:58.920 --> 00:50:05.400 before any There's a whole cast and crew and it's apparently a short animation starring 630 00:50:05.440 --> 00:50:12.079 a character made fashioned after Fred Chrisman. I can't even imagine what they I 631 00:50:12.400 --> 00:50:15.559 did not know that they made. This stuff apparently was made in twenty twenty 632 00:50:15.559 --> 00:50:20.239 two, by the way, so people are still interested in this. M 633 00:50:21.119 --> 00:50:24.920 Let's see here's his Wikipedia page film Freeway. I'm looking to see if I 634 00:50:24.920 --> 00:50:30.760 can get a quick synopsis, like a really good one. Space Nazis written 635 00:50:30.760 --> 00:50:34.000 by blah blah blah. Okay, let's see if this gives me a good 636 00:50:34.119 --> 00:50:38.559 quick synopsis. Joseph's Midwest Weird Fast Shorts reviews. Okay, here's a review 637 00:50:38.599 --> 00:50:44.360 of it. Anyway, it doesn't matter. That's that whole thing that was 638 00:50:44.400 --> 00:50:47.480 mentioned in that article previous that he had made a claim that he escaped from 639 00:50:49.000 --> 00:50:54.079 you know, the evil creatures role they get captive, the evil aliens that 640 00:50:54.119 --> 00:50:59.840 were from what do you say Venus? Was it Venus? Mike, Kay, 641 00:51:00.320 --> 00:51:02.840 I can't remember. It doesn't matter, you know what, because I 642 00:51:02.920 --> 00:51:07.679 mean it was Venus was another story I was talking about? Well was that 643 00:51:07.719 --> 00:51:09.360 another I'm sorry I might have mixed it. Anyway, They were from another 644 00:51:09.400 --> 00:51:13.639 planet and they held him, capped him in a cave. But again, 645 00:51:13.679 --> 00:51:19.199 he's also tied to some pretty fantastical stories regarding the Kennedy assassination. I don't 646 00:51:19.239 --> 00:51:22.679 know how anybody takes a guy like this seriously, but what they do, 647 00:51:23.320 --> 00:51:28.679 Uh, is he somebody that was clearly involved with some disinformation agents? I 648 00:51:28.679 --> 00:51:30.679 think so, And I think this is part of the fun and games that 649 00:51:30.760 --> 00:51:35.960 goes on. Plus, you know, don't forget what was the primary way 650 00:51:36.519 --> 00:51:40.159 that they used to criticize Warren Commission critics, right, and people that were 651 00:51:40.519 --> 00:51:45.639 like when I first started to really look into the Kennedy assassination, right, 652 00:51:45.239 --> 00:51:49.480 I was still a teenager. Mike. Were you looking into it back then? 653 00:51:49.719 --> 00:51:54.760 By the way, as a teenager? Uh? Thirteen? Okay, 654 00:51:54.880 --> 00:52:00.360 So you started with a casual interest. You and I really parallel universe here, 655 00:52:00.400 --> 00:52:04.559 You and I could have hung out, because I'm telling you this is 656 00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:07.840 when I started to look at it. And in nineteen eighty eight, let 657 00:52:07.880 --> 00:52:09.480 me get this straight, I guess I'm sixteen and nineteen. When at the 658 00:52:09.480 --> 00:52:14.960 age of sixteen is when I got serious around the twenty fifth anniversary, because 659 00:52:14.960 --> 00:52:17.159 there was stuff on TV, and there was stuff on the radio, and 660 00:52:17.199 --> 00:52:22.000 there was just a lot of information out there in magazines, and I got 661 00:52:22.000 --> 00:52:25.119 really into it. So that's when I got in. When I got in 662 00:52:25.199 --> 00:52:30.719 though, one of the main attacks, and for probably a decade and a 663 00:52:30.800 --> 00:52:36.840 half until after Oliver Stone's film had set in and we got the records, 664 00:52:36.840 --> 00:52:39.599 review board and stuff. What was one of the main things that always came 665 00:52:39.679 --> 00:52:44.440 up, right, Oh, you believe in that Kennedy JFK conspiracy stuff? 666 00:52:44.519 --> 00:52:46.800 Right like on the X Files. Oh yeah, yeah, there you go, 667 00:52:46.960 --> 00:52:51.400 Molder, You're on the Grassy Knoll again, right. What they used 668 00:52:51.440 --> 00:52:54.079 to say to us is, well, you believe that Kennedy wasn't killed by 669 00:52:54.079 --> 00:53:01.119 Oswald? I bet you believe in what little Green men. They always put 670 00:53:01.119 --> 00:53:06.440 the aliens right along with kenn It's like I didn't bring up aliens I'm talking 671 00:53:06.480 --> 00:53:08.960 about you know, actually, yeah, you're one of those wacky people. 672 00:53:09.760 --> 00:53:14.920 Isn't that funny that it seems like that was the design, Just like when 673 00:53:14.920 --> 00:53:17.360 we saw the memo where you know, stop calling these people Warren Commission critics 674 00:53:17.360 --> 00:53:22.719 start calling them conspiracy theorists to undermine the fact that they don't have any of 675 00:53:22.719 --> 00:53:27.039 the facts. That's what you're supposed to do. That was the directions given 676 00:53:27.079 --> 00:53:30.599 to the media. You remember that document, I'm sure, yeah, yeah. 677 00:53:30.639 --> 00:53:35.559 So what I'm saying is is that the nomenclature shifts around, the phrasing 678 00:53:35.679 --> 00:53:39.079 and the labeling shifts around, and this is the way things are done. 679 00:53:39.119 --> 00:53:44.800 This is the business of propaganda in the modern age. They attached labels to 680 00:53:44.840 --> 00:53:51.119 you, and those labels imply connections to other things. And therefore, guess 681 00:53:51.119 --> 00:53:55.199 what you're this you're now that you know, if you're a liberal in certain 682 00:53:55.239 --> 00:54:00.960 circles, then you're the root of all evil. If you're against Joe Biden 683 00:54:00.960 --> 00:54:05.320 and you're complaining about him, you must be a Trumper, and therefore your 684 00:54:05.360 --> 00:54:08.840 somebody who's against this and against that, and you believe they make all sorts 685 00:54:08.840 --> 00:54:14.800 of assertions off of a very simple jumping off point and then attach you to 686 00:54:15.159 --> 00:54:21.400 eighteen different things. And one wonders why that formula is exactly the same. 687 00:54:21.639 --> 00:54:25.320 I don't wonder. I see it. People are given those marching orders. 688 00:54:25.320 --> 00:54:30.639 You're told you're directed, You're fed that information constantly, they repeated enough, 689 00:54:31.039 --> 00:54:37.360 and they tell you if this, then that if you believe that Kennedy wasn't 690 00:54:37.440 --> 00:54:42.440 killed by Oswald like our good and proper government told us, then you believe 691 00:54:42.519 --> 00:54:47.320 in little green men. Okay, then you don't believe in this. You 692 00:54:47.400 --> 00:54:53.400 are un American. If you think that there's any question about the you know, 693 00:54:53.920 --> 00:54:59.000 nineteen angry guys with boxcutters taken down two buildings in New York City. 694 00:54:59.519 --> 00:55:05.639 If you question that, you're unpatriotic, you hate America. They always do 695 00:55:05.679 --> 00:55:10.400 this mike where they attach some other thing that may not necessarily be true. 696 00:55:12.039 --> 00:55:15.639 I gotta tell you, I stand in a position of saying to myself that 697 00:55:16.320 --> 00:55:21.920 realistically, there is very likely other life in the universe. Right, just 698 00:55:22.199 --> 00:55:24.719 mathematically, it makes sense to me that there is other life in the universe 699 00:55:24.760 --> 00:55:29.760 besides this one little ball that we're on. And yes, I do think 700 00:55:29.760 --> 00:55:34.559 the Earth's round, not flat. Let's not go there, But forget if 701 00:55:34.559 --> 00:55:37.639 it's a ball, let's just call it a rock, Mike. We're all 702 00:55:37.679 --> 00:55:40.599 on this rock here. I think there's life elsewhere. Now. Do I 703 00:55:40.679 --> 00:55:47.000 think they're coming down and visiting people and rectally examining us? And not necessarily 704 00:55:47.400 --> 00:55:52.280 do I think they've come down to mutilate cows and they've come to, I 705 00:55:52.320 --> 00:55:54.440 don't know, get the cream of the crop to examine and figure out how 706 00:55:54.519 --> 00:56:00.000 human beings work. Realistically, would erase of alien do that? They might? 707 00:56:00.079 --> 00:56:05.639 They might look at us as zoological animals. That's a possibility. It 708 00:56:05.800 --> 00:56:09.159 is a possibility, But has it actually been happening? Are the people's stories 709 00:56:09.159 --> 00:56:14.679 that tell it true. I'll tell you another thing, um an interesting theory 710 00:56:14.719 --> 00:56:15.840 that comes up, and I'm gonna throw this at you, and then I'm 711 00:56:15.840 --> 00:56:19.760 gonna let you run with whatever it is you want. And I think we'll 712 00:56:19.800 --> 00:56:22.679 probably, you know, either close this out or go to a break real 713 00:56:22.719 --> 00:56:28.599 quick and give people our final thoughts after it, because we probably exhausted everything 714 00:56:28.599 --> 00:56:32.760 you wanted to talk about with food for thought. I knew some people that 715 00:56:35.199 --> 00:56:39.880 they describe certain things that were in their memories, and I feel like they 716 00:56:39.920 --> 00:56:45.840 did describe that this this weird space that your memory can get into when you've 717 00:56:45.840 --> 00:56:50.599 been anesthetized and you're in Like, I've had a couple of surgeries. Have 718 00:56:50.719 --> 00:56:52.880 you ever woken up during a surgery? Mike had a surgery where you woke 719 00:56:52.960 --> 00:57:01.159 up? No? No, okay, okay, I have, and I've 720 00:57:01.199 --> 00:57:04.840 had surgeries where, believe me, it's just like, wait a minute, 721 00:57:04.840 --> 00:57:07.199 what happened? I blinked, and I don't realize that. You know, 722 00:57:07.239 --> 00:57:12.599 I've been under anesthesia for eight hours, right, or three four hours whatever 723 00:57:12.639 --> 00:57:15.719 it was, you know, like snap of the fingers. I'm just waking 724 00:57:15.760 --> 00:57:21.320 back up. Like when I had my throat surgery. I remember them starting 725 00:57:21.320 --> 00:57:23.599 the count on the anesthesia and we got all the way to one. We 726 00:57:23.599 --> 00:57:27.920 was counting backwards from ten. They were a little surprised that we got to 727 00:57:28.000 --> 00:57:30.679 one. But the next thing I knew, I was in my room, 728 00:57:30.760 --> 00:57:34.639 despite the fact that I was told that I had been awake previous to that 729 00:57:34.679 --> 00:57:39.920 and taking some actions. Actually I struck a nurse coming out of anesthesia because 730 00:57:39.960 --> 00:57:44.280 I felt as though I was threatened. I don't recall any of that, 731 00:57:44.360 --> 00:57:51.159 but I do recall coming partially conscious during anesthesia before them, and you could 732 00:57:51.159 --> 00:57:53.280 see things in a lot of weird ways. You might see people with big 733 00:57:53.320 --> 00:57:58.519 blurry heads, you know, and if they've got white masks and white hats 734 00:57:58.559 --> 00:58:00.880 on and stuff like that, maybe the whole head looks pretty white or gray, 735 00:58:00.920 --> 00:58:06.960 blurry gray. It could seem like that. And some of those experiences 736 00:58:07.039 --> 00:58:10.760 sound like something like that is in their memories one way or another. But 737 00:58:12.239 --> 00:58:15.599 why in the hell would you know, Like some of the people that we've 738 00:58:15.639 --> 00:58:19.480 seen them abduct, like, I don't know the background on the Bill and 739 00:58:20.639 --> 00:58:22.599 oh my god, Bill and Betty was it that we were talking about before. 740 00:58:22.920 --> 00:58:27.519 I don't know Betty and Barney. I'm sorry, Betty and Barney. 741 00:58:27.559 --> 00:58:30.239 I don't know their backgrounds. But some of the people that I used to 742 00:58:30.239 --> 00:58:32.920 see on TV, I would always look at them and say, if I 743 00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:37.599 were an alien to come down, I would not pick these people to examine. 744 00:58:37.360 --> 00:58:44.559 They don't seem to be what would be interesting about them to examine them. 745 00:58:45.239 --> 00:58:49.320 They're not smart, they're not pretty, they're not anything. They're not 746 00:58:49.400 --> 00:58:53.440 exceptional that you can tell that right away, Like, what would an alien 747 00:58:53.559 --> 00:58:59.760 want with these people? Anyways, I'm just saying it's a very weird subject 748 00:59:00.199 --> 00:59:04.159 interesting. And here's the thing I'm very skeptical of most people's stories, but 749 00:59:04.199 --> 00:59:07.880 I do believe there's life out there. Not sure if they're aintually probing us. 750 00:59:07.400 --> 00:59:10.800 Okay, I'm not sure if I buy most of the stories, famous 751 00:59:10.920 --> 00:59:15.519 or not so famous. But it is an interesting phenomena and it has been 752 00:59:15.559 --> 00:59:21.599 consistent for well quite a while. I think these things did exist before World 753 00:59:21.599 --> 00:59:27.360 War Two, but I think in the age of mass media, it's the 754 00:59:27.400 --> 00:59:31.400 awareness of it has grown just like anything else, and it did grow during 755 00:59:31.440 --> 00:59:37.119 that time period. I think because as technology has emerged too, that has 756 00:59:37.199 --> 00:59:40.880 also sort of created shock among people. So I think all of those things 757 00:59:40.920 --> 00:59:45.559 culminate together to create what, in some cases is a mass delusion. And 758 00:59:45.639 --> 00:59:52.000 yet you know, there's stuff like the incident over Phoenix, Arizona, and 759 00:59:52.320 --> 00:59:59.000 there were incidents over cities in Mexico where thousands of people witnessed some pretty interesting 760 00:59:59.039 --> 01:00:01.159 things in the sky. You know, some of the triangles, the weird 761 01:00:01.239 --> 01:00:05.440 formations. I mean, I'm sure you've seen some of those right where. 762 01:00:05.440 --> 01:00:12.079 There's actually videos now that have emerged to show some of these mass sightings that 763 01:00:12.239 --> 01:00:15.599 clearly occurred. They don't look normal, they don't appear to be airplanes of 764 01:00:15.639 --> 01:00:21.719 any kind. Strange things have happened, and can we explain it all or 765 01:00:21.760 --> 01:00:24.599 could we solve it all? Today? Absolutely not. Does our government really 766 01:00:24.639 --> 01:00:28.760 know what the hell is going on? I don't know. Is it possible 767 01:00:28.840 --> 01:00:30.880 they don't have a clue and they just want to keep us busy with anything 768 01:00:30.920 --> 01:00:35.960 else so that we don't realize that they've got zero clue as to what's actually 769 01:00:35.960 --> 01:00:40.480 going on over our heads. Maybe they are just covering their incompetence with anything 770 01:00:40.519 --> 01:00:45.039 at all that will grab your attention. I don't know, Mike, I 771 01:00:45.119 --> 01:00:49.199 just don't know. So I'm skeptical. I believe there's probably other life. 772 01:00:49.320 --> 01:00:54.000 Probably there have been alien vehicles here. Probably there are still. I would 773 01:00:54.039 --> 01:00:57.639 think that some of them might have thought of something as simple as Star Trek 774 01:00:57.679 --> 01:01:00.400 did with the cloaking technology at some point. So most of the time they're 775 01:01:00.400 --> 01:01:06.079 not seen. But then again I don't know. And by the way, 776 01:01:06.079 --> 01:01:07.880 how many people actually look up at the sky anymore? That was a question 777 01:01:07.920 --> 01:01:12.559 I had the other day on Union of the Unwanted, when somebody brought up 778 01:01:12.559 --> 01:01:15.639 the aliens and stuff, and I said, well, you know, as 779 01:01:15.679 --> 01:01:19.039 far as being a kid, I remember again you and I being kids at 780 01:01:19.079 --> 01:01:22.679 about the same time, Mike, we might look up at the sky, 781 01:01:22.840 --> 01:01:24.360 we might take the time to do that. We might hear a noise over 782 01:01:24.400 --> 01:01:29.679 our heads and look up. But nowadays so many kids are looking down at 783 01:01:29.679 --> 01:01:34.199 these little stupid rectangles and stupid phones, you know, smartphones, whatever, 784 01:01:34.239 --> 01:01:38.679 their final slabs, tablets, you name it that. You know, even 785 01:01:38.679 --> 01:01:43.239 if there was aliens flying over most kids heads, would they notice it. 786 01:01:44.239 --> 01:01:47.039 They have every opportunity to photograph it, because almost everybody you know has access 787 01:01:47.039 --> 01:01:50.960 to some sort of small camera that they could put right in their pockets via 788 01:01:51.039 --> 01:01:54.639 these smartphones, at least in North America. And yet would they ever actually 789 01:01:54.639 --> 01:02:00.280 get photographed normally? Who knows. Maybe a lot of things have gone buy 790 01:02:00.360 --> 01:02:02.440 overhead and nobody's taken notice of it, much like keem trails, you know. 791 01:02:04.199 --> 01:02:07.360 Anyways, Mike, I know I just said a whole bunch of crazy 792 01:02:07.360 --> 01:02:09.960 stuff. But what are your thoughts. Should we take a break real fast 793 01:02:10.000 --> 01:02:14.559 and give people a final synopsis on this or what I could sum it up 794 01:02:14.840 --> 01:02:17.440 and close close it out pretty easy? Well, whatever you want to do, 795 01:02:17.480 --> 01:02:20.960 Mike, you know what, it's it's your time. We haven't quite 796 01:02:20.960 --> 01:02:22.480 gone an hour yet, or we have gone about an hour, so I 797 01:02:22.480 --> 01:02:24.960 don't know. Maybe maybe you're sick of hearing my voice by now. I 798 01:02:24.960 --> 01:02:30.519 wouldn't blame you, but no, I just I don't have but one little 799 01:02:30.519 --> 01:02:32.599 thing to add. That's all. Well, look, let let's just let's 800 01:02:32.599 --> 01:02:37.519 just go to a quick break real fast and uh and and let's get ourselves 801 01:02:37.679 --> 01:02:40.360 organized and give people a tie a bow on this little present, this interesting 802 01:02:40.360 --> 01:02:44.880 discussion, because I don't think I've ever sat here and talked to you about 803 01:02:44.880 --> 01:02:49.719 stuff like UFOs before for a full hour, and I never asked you about 804 01:02:49.719 --> 01:02:52.239 Star Trek. So you know what, we'll just take a quick short break 805 01:02:52.280 --> 01:02:55.039 here on the Ocelly Effect. Mike Swanson and myself will be back right after 806 01:02:55.119 --> 01:03:15.880 this revelation through conversation. Wall Street, Reindow dot Gold, Silver, the 807 01:03:15.960 --> 01:03:22.360 stock market, Wall Street, Window dot dot Perhaps you're invested deeply, perhaps 808 01:03:22.400 --> 01:03:27.679 you're not in deep enough. Maybe you're thinking about getting started Wall Street, 809 01:03:27.840 --> 01:03:31.320 Windows dot com, do dot com. Michael Swanson, the brilliant author of 810 01:03:31.320 --> 01:03:37.119 the War State, understood these trends professionally for many years, and now he 811 01:03:37.159 --> 01:03:44.800 gives you the benefit of his knowledge. Wall Street, Streetdow dot do go 812 01:03:44.920 --> 01:04:03.199 there, now go there, now go there. Now this is James Gorbatt 813 01:04:03.239 --> 01:04:06.880 Korba Report dot com and you're listening to the Ocelly Affected Ocelly dot Com. 814 01:04:06.920 --> 01:04:11.920 Go ahead, colle in the truth about the Java assassination. Right, Well, 815 01:04:11.920 --> 01:04:15.639 what do you want to know Judie Baker's wild claim Oswald girlfriend who knew 816 01:04:15.679 --> 01:04:18.239 Ruby and Barry dancer weapons? Really? I imagine I could claim I have 817 01:04:18.320 --> 01:04:21.679 four wheels. It doesn't make me a wagon. But okay, Oswald was 818 01:04:21.719 --> 01:04:25.800 on the Jibe and m time prevent the murder of John Kennedy. Come on, 819 01:04:25.880 --> 01:04:29.440 now, has it real? Eckert on the Day pays ascimation into reclaim. 820 01:04:29.639 --> 01:04:33.679 Go to Amazon dot com enter Judith Baker in her own words. You'll 821 01:04:33.719 --> 01:04:39.280 get the results for a digital copy of a book where Walt Brown utilizes her 822 01:04:39.320 --> 01:04:44.480 own words and the known evidence in the case to get at well a different 823 01:04:44.519 --> 01:04:47.920 perspective. Let's say you can get Judith Barry Baker in her own words from 824 01:04:47.960 --> 01:04:53.719 the author himself, signed if you request it by contacting doctor Brown at KIA 825 01:04:54.159 --> 01:04:59.679 s JFK at aol dot com. It's a fun book and it actually dissects 826 01:05:00.039 --> 01:05:04.119 the many, many fantastic claims Judith Arry Baker in her own words. A 827 01:05:04.480 --> 01:05:10.480 great information you're listening to the Ochelli dot Com Radio network. Do you like 828 01:05:10.679 --> 01:05:15.840 history, Real history that you were never taught in schools? Why the Vietnam 829 01:05:15.960 --> 01:05:20.760 War Nuclear Moms in nation Building in Southeast Asia by author Mike Swanson, with 830 01:05:20.960 --> 01:05:27.519 new documentation never seen before, felli open your eyes to events that led up 831 01:05:27.519 --> 01:05:32.599 to this. Why the Vietnam War Nuclear Moms in Nation Building in Southeast Asia 832 01:05:32.760 --> 01:05:40.320 nineteen forty five through nineteen sixty one. Get your copy today at Amazon dot 833 01:05:40.360 --> 01:05:45.119 com. Why the Vietnam War by author Mike Swanson o'chilli dot com. In 834 01:05:45.199 --> 01:05:53.480 Denial The Secret Wars with air strikes and Tanks by Larry Hancock. Secret wars 835 01:05:53.519 --> 01:05:58.679 became a staple of US covert operations and are still happening today. Larry Hancock's 836 01:05:58.719 --> 01:06:02.760 book In Denial the cover off many of them using new files. It exposes 837 01:06:02.800 --> 01:06:06.280 things about the Bay of Peace and no one has ever written about before. 838 01:06:06.639 --> 01:06:11.800 It shows why it really failed and why the United States did not earn from 839 01:06:11.840 --> 01:06:15.599 it. It also shows why other countries today are doing secret operations with more 840 01:06:15.639 --> 01:06:20.360 says, this is the book that puts what some want to deny into the 841 01:06:20.519 --> 01:06:28.480 light. In Denial Secret Wars with air strikes and tanks Larry Hancock. For 842 01:06:28.599 --> 01:06:32.159 more information, go to Larry hyphen Hancock dot com. Pick up your copy 843 01:06:32.199 --> 01:06:36.800 of In Denial at Amazon dot com in digital or physical force. The War 844 01:06:36.960 --> 01:06:42.559 State by Michael Swanson explains the great national transformation that took place and put the 845 01:06:42.639 --> 01:06:47.079 Kennedy presidency in the context of the times and reveals never before published information about 846 01:06:47.119 --> 01:06:51.400 the Cuban missile crisis. President Kennedy would not have been assassinated if he had 847 01:06:51.400 --> 01:06:57.000 been president two hundred years ago. His assassination took place in the context of 848 01:06:57.039 --> 01:07:00.079 the Cold War and the rise of the national security state. Before World War 849 01:07:00.119 --> 01:07:04.159 Two, the United States was a continental republic. In the decade that followed, 850 01:07:04.199 --> 01:07:09.840 it became an imperial superpower. Generals such as Curtis LeMay not only wanted 851 01:07:09.880 --> 01:07:13.599 to invade Cuba, but knew that there were short range missiles on the island 852 01:07:13.679 --> 01:07:17.079 armed with nuclear warheads that they could not destroy because they were on mobile launchers. 853 01:07:17.239 --> 01:07:21.320 Their invasion could have led to a Third World War, and they wanted 854 01:07:21.360 --> 01:07:27.039 to go to war anyway. The War State by Michael Swanson reveals why and 855 01:07:27.079 --> 01:07:30.599 will show you what President Kennedy was up against for more information the War State 856 01:07:30.719 --> 01:07:35.679 dot com bring me fifteen lookers now and get the drugs ready to tightening the 857 01:07:35.679 --> 01:07:43.719 private islands that age if they'd landed in trip ships during peak uniforms tr tranny 858 01:07:43.960 --> 01:07:50.559 literally aarone was just sneel. Oh she goes up on a throne and crass 859 01:07:51.480 --> 01:08:16.680 and they wiped her fat butt revelation through conversation, final segment of the Ocelli 860 01:08:16.640 --> 01:08:21.920 Effect Tonight here on a Thursday with my friend Mike Swanson, who I'm more 861 01:08:21.960 --> 01:08:26.560 than happy to point you to Wall Street Window dot com being the no go 862 01:08:26.640 --> 01:08:30.720 over there. Sign up with the free newsletter. Also read his books now. 863 01:08:30.720 --> 01:08:33.439 He's written a bunch of them, interesting history of Danville, Virginia, 864 01:08:34.159 --> 01:08:39.279 which I don't usually promote some stuff on finance, but the two I do 865 01:08:39.399 --> 01:08:45.680 promote, The War State, fascinating essential piece of reading. And I may 866 01:08:45.680 --> 01:08:47.399 indeed have a copy or two of that with me when I go to Dallas, 867 01:08:47.760 --> 01:08:53.039 along with copies of Why the Vietnam War when I go to Dallas, 868 01:08:53.880 --> 01:08:57.000 And who knows, maybe we'll give away one or two on the show before 869 01:08:57.039 --> 01:09:00.880 I go, because I think you guys need to read that. That's the 870 01:09:00.920 --> 01:09:05.159 first in a series of at least three or potentially three volumes on the Vietnam 871 01:09:05.319 --> 01:09:10.960 conflict, and it is a unique piece of work from a unique author. 872 01:09:11.439 --> 01:09:15.159 Michael Swanson. Okay, now that I've done the obligatory promos and all that, 873 01:09:15.279 --> 01:09:20.039 Mike, I gotta say I did not expect to have an alien conversation 874 01:09:20.119 --> 01:09:27.159 with you, or a UAP or UFO conversation with you. I wonder what 875 01:09:27.319 --> 01:09:31.079 you think about all this stuff really, because we never discuss it. I 876 01:09:31.119 --> 01:09:35.119 guess you know, again, since you don't believe Oswald did it, necessarily, 877 01:09:35.920 --> 01:09:39.119 you must believe in little green men, right, Mike. I mean 878 01:09:39.760 --> 01:09:44.239 I brought that up. We talked about the evolution, the weird connections. 879 01:09:44.600 --> 01:09:46.840 You know. One last thing I'll mentioned before I let you tie a bow 880 01:09:46.920 --> 01:09:50.920 on this, Mike, if you don't mind, is remember the Majestic twelve 881 01:09:51.359 --> 01:09:57.079 nonsense that went on in the JFK research community. You know, JFK was 882 01:09:57.159 --> 01:10:00.159 killed because he was going to disclose that there were aliens. I mean, 883 01:10:00.319 --> 01:10:03.279 I don't know how stupid you had to be to buy that one. I 884 01:10:03.279 --> 01:10:08.840 mean, they had some fake documents rolling around that were clearly blatantly fake. 885 01:10:09.560 --> 01:10:13.239 You know what I'm saying. Do you remember that stuff rolling around when it 886 01:10:13.279 --> 01:10:18.520 was twelve. Yeah, I mean, what the hell you know? Anyway, 887 01:10:19.000 --> 01:10:24.840 But there is this real world connection with chrisman and and Banister being tied 888 01:10:24.840 --> 01:10:28.800 to the Moray Islands deal, which, again according to uh well, according 889 01:10:28.840 --> 01:10:31.359 to muck Rock, and according to many analysts, was a complete fraudulent fake 890 01:10:31.439 --> 01:10:35.239 thing. The FBI has memos on it. I don't know how I feel 891 01:10:35.239 --> 01:10:41.359 about Morey Island or many of these other alleged incidents, but I'm sure sometimes 892 01:10:41.359 --> 01:10:45.000 there have been weird things that can't be explained that have happened. Again, 893 01:10:45.079 --> 01:10:48.399 Larry Hancocks laid out a few interesting things in that book Unidentified that have happened 894 01:10:48.399 --> 01:10:56.000 at military installations and in interactions with military personnel and the security state's reaction to 895 01:10:56.039 --> 01:11:00.279 it. That is some fascinating reading. But outside of that, out in 896 01:11:00.319 --> 01:11:02.600 the weirdness and the videos that we've seen released in the past couple of years, 897 01:11:03.359 --> 01:11:09.520 I don't know, man, I still remain kind of unconvinced in any 898 01:11:09.520 --> 01:11:14.479 direction as to what's actually happening regarding all of this. Uh, what are 899 01:11:14.520 --> 01:11:19.319 your what's your old world take? Well, I'm very skeptical of all these 900 01:11:19.359 --> 01:11:25.079 stories, and but I just say I drop I've dropped a link in the 901 01:11:25.239 --> 01:11:32.600 chat to hit hitting Atism session done at Barney Hill, and I just say, 902 01:11:32.720 --> 01:11:38.960 like the stories of people being abducted and all that stuff, this is 903 01:11:39.119 --> 01:11:43.680 the first story. All the other stories are copies of what happened to Barney 904 01:11:44.199 --> 01:11:46.039 Hill. Where is that? Where's that link in the chat? Mike, 905 01:11:46.079 --> 01:11:51.479 I don't see it. Uh, Barney Hill hit No session, Okay, 906 01:11:51.520 --> 01:11:54.960 because I don't see it in the Uh oh wait a minute, there there 907 01:11:54.960 --> 01:11:59.159 it is, Okay, it's a video video vide okay. So in the 908 01:11:59.199 --> 01:12:01.680 live chat room at shelly dot com there's a video link there which looks like 909 01:12:01.720 --> 01:12:04.840 a family picture and that's apparently the one with the hip. Yeah, that's 910 01:12:04.920 --> 01:12:13.479 them and with their dog. And this is a hypno session. So anyone, 911 01:12:13.520 --> 01:12:15.359 you know, if you put that in the show notes, people can 912 01:12:15.399 --> 01:12:23.600 listen to it judge for themselves. I'm highly skeptical of them. That said. 913 01:12:24.800 --> 01:12:30.960 People making YouTube comments are not they say, he screams at the nine 914 01:12:31.039 --> 01:12:35.359 minute thirty mark, and it gave the person goose bumps. It must be 915 01:12:35.439 --> 01:12:45.000 real. Anytime you're hear an abduptee screaming in agony during hypnotic regression, you 916 01:12:45.039 --> 01:12:50.560 get chills on your spine when you do. You know it's real. So 917 01:12:50.920 --> 01:12:59.520 some these people making these comments like that they're convinced, but you can listen 918 01:12:59.560 --> 01:13:02.119 to it and judge for yourself. Well, I say, you know, 919 01:13:02.560 --> 01:13:08.880 look, obviously you judged all these things for yourselves. I mean I am 920 01:13:08.920 --> 01:13:14.359 not again not claiming to know a damn thing about it, right. I 921 01:13:14.399 --> 01:13:17.560 mean, you know, you look back at some of the official stuff because 922 01:13:17.560 --> 01:13:21.319 somebody said, Hey, whether other interviews conducted, I'm not sure. I'm 923 01:13:21.319 --> 01:13:27.520 looking at an obituary and a write up at the University of New Hampshire again 924 01:13:27.560 --> 01:13:31.279 where I told you some of the papers and artifacts from them are stored there 925 01:13:31.680 --> 01:13:38.760 at the university because Betty was apparently an alumni of that university. It also 926 01:13:38.760 --> 01:13:42.840 says she was a social worker, etc. I mean, these are interesting, 927 01:13:42.880 --> 01:13:46.520 regular people. I don't think they really were out there seeking a lot 928 01:13:46.680 --> 01:13:51.479 of like notoriety, unlike some of the people I was talking about that were 929 01:13:51.479 --> 01:13:56.000 on the Horaldo Shows and stuff like that. Later who I think, you 930 01:13:56.000 --> 01:14:00.359 know, became a queen and king for a day, you know what I'm 931 01:14:00.399 --> 01:14:03.439 saying. Like they got on TV and that was their big, their big 932 01:14:03.479 --> 01:14:08.920 moment, you know, a lot of things are possible. A lot of 933 01:14:08.960 --> 01:14:11.840 things are possible, And I mean, what what what can I say? 934 01:14:12.199 --> 01:14:15.000 Uh, it's it's a strange thing. And who knows that we'll be able 935 01:14:15.000 --> 01:14:17.439 to track any of that down? Uh, you know personally, I mean, 936 01:14:17.479 --> 01:14:21.159 and it is weird watching Congress have hearings about it. And again, 937 01:14:21.199 --> 01:14:27.199 our our mutual friend Larry Hancock is involved in a very serious study of you 938 01:14:27.239 --> 01:14:30.000 know, these things that have been witnessed and accounted for by the military all 939 01:14:30.039 --> 01:14:33.840 the way up to the nineteen seventies. So maybe I should ask Larry next 940 01:14:33.880 --> 01:14:36.760 time I have him on in a couple of weeks about about what he thinks 941 01:14:36.800 --> 01:14:41.560 about this, you know, the abductions and stuff. I'm sure that that's 942 01:14:41.600 --> 01:14:44.600 not the area that his people are working on, but what the hell I 943 01:14:44.640 --> 01:14:48.119 can ask him about it anyway, right, Oh sure, And uh, 944 01:14:48.239 --> 01:14:51.880 look, I'm open to any kind of discussion. And this is definitely a 945 01:14:51.920 --> 01:14:55.800 weird one, Mike. I didn't expect, like I said to uh, 946 01:14:56.319 --> 01:15:00.319 to have this conversation with you. But what the hell I've take can you 947 01:15:00.319 --> 01:15:03.520 overtime? And I've taken all you people over time tonight on the o'ceelly effect. 948 01:15:03.520 --> 01:15:06.560 But again, go over to Wall Street Window dot com. I'm sure 949 01:15:06.600 --> 01:15:12.239 Mike won't be writing about aliens unless something comes out in these hearings, in 950 01:15:12.279 --> 01:15:15.199 which case he might report about it on his news feed. But other than 951 01:15:15.239 --> 01:15:19.439 that, Mike, I don't see articles on aliens coming up in your near 952 01:15:19.560 --> 01:15:26.119 future or UAPs or UFOs or the X files unless or something I don't know, 953 01:15:26.159 --> 01:15:32.880 I mean, tell me, I hope not, because then something crazy 954 01:15:32.960 --> 01:15:36.640 is happening. Not either that or Project Blue Beam, which is something we 955 01:15:36.640 --> 01:15:40.640 could discuss one day where people told me they were going to fake an alien 956 01:15:40.680 --> 01:15:43.840 invasion and all that, uh, and it was definitely coming, and it 957 01:15:43.840 --> 01:15:45.199 was supposed to have come in twenty twelve. They were going to do it, 958 01:15:45.479 --> 01:15:48.560 you know, alongside of the mind calendar, right and all that. 959 01:15:49.880 --> 01:15:53.600 Anyway, look, I know I've had a little fun and I've laughed a 960 01:15:53.600 --> 01:15:57.119 few times, but I had a great conversation with Mike Swanson, and I 961 01:15:57.119 --> 01:16:00.960 hope you guys enjoyed it. Thanks Mike dig it. Anyways, I am 962 01:16:00.960 --> 01:16:04.880 merely Ocelly and all of you are indeed the effect. Get involved at ocelly 963 01:16:04.960 --> 01:16:10.359 dot com and again in on the the Swag program over there. I'm not 964 01:16:10.439 --> 01:16:14.760 selling anything, but I've got stuff to thank you for being a supporter if 965 01:16:14.800 --> 01:16:17.880 you chip in and support and we could use it over at o'ceelly dot com 966 01:16:17.880 --> 01:16:24.800 to keep things rolling. So I am o'celly and you are all indeed the effect tonight