WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.880 --> 00:00:09.320 Host. Welcome to Open Minds Radio with Alejandro Rojas. Open Minds Radio is 2 00:00:09.359 --> 00:00:15.279 the UFO news authority presenting evidence and the latest news regarding the UFO phenomenon. 3 00:00:15.439 --> 00:00:22.839 Here's your host, Alejandro Roja. Hello, my friends, we are back. 4 00:00:22.879 --> 00:00:26.359 I hope you had a lot of fun on July fourth, which is 5 00:00:26.440 --> 00:00:30.559 actually Independence Day, that was our independence from the British. For some of 6 00:00:30.600 --> 00:00:33.280 you who don't know, because some people I'm sure are out there, No, 7 00:00:33.320 --> 00:00:37.280 Oh, it's spoiler Cracker Day, which is dependent stuff. Man, 8 00:00:37.359 --> 00:00:41.960 it's today we like fight crackers. But actually if you look it up Wikipedia, 9 00:00:43.320 --> 00:00:46.719 you'll be able to discover that. How are you all doing. Welcome 10 00:00:46.719 --> 00:00:53.600 to Open Minds, your UFO news authority. This is Alejandro Rojas and we 11 00:00:53.679 --> 00:01:00.479 have a great show for you today, brand new breaking news actually today from 12 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:06.599 Roswell. Antonio and I were in Roswell last weekend where they hold an annual 13 00:01:06.719 --> 00:01:12.120 festival. I think this one was the sixty first in honor of the crash 14 00:01:12.159 --> 00:01:15.599 in Roswell, the alleged crash in nineteen forty seven. Would that at work 15 00:01:15.640 --> 00:01:19.599 out, that wouldn't be the sixty first then, but anyway, it happened 16 00:01:19.599 --> 00:01:25.719 some time ago and it was, of course a source of a lot of 17 00:01:25.879 --> 00:01:30.760 controversy people who have been talking about it for a long time. But surprisingly, 18 00:01:30.959 --> 00:01:33.239 just like we talked about with Tom Carry a couple of weeks ago, 19 00:01:33.519 --> 00:01:38.439 there are new things happening all the time. And this is exciting because there's 20 00:01:38.439 --> 00:01:42.359 a gentleman who worked at the new works at the New Mexico Military Institute. 21 00:01:42.400 --> 00:01:49.319 He teaches high school level earth sciences and college level geology. He's interested in 22 00:01:49.359 --> 00:01:53.079 this subject and he took it upon himself to do his own research because he 23 00:01:53.159 --> 00:01:59.799 wanted to find a piece of the alleged crash UFO and he just might have 24 00:02:00.159 --> 00:02:04.519 done that, and he's in the process of proving it. So we're going 25 00:02:04.599 --> 00:02:09.159 to talk to him about that. This is really exciting breaking news. Nobody 26 00:02:09.199 --> 00:02:14.039 else is really talking about this set or has talked to Frank, but luckily 27 00:02:14.039 --> 00:02:15.479 since we were out there, we got to meet him. He was part 28 00:02:15.520 --> 00:02:19.800 of the panel. You may have read our Roswell story where we talked about 29 00:02:19.840 --> 00:02:23.840 the panel of researchers and saw his picture up there. So we're going to 30 00:02:23.919 --> 00:02:28.439 talk to him all about this and gets you some more information. So this 31 00:02:28.599 --> 00:02:32.080 is going to be a lot of fun otherwise, you know up and coming 32 00:02:32.439 --> 00:02:37.879 what tomorrow I hear our next magazine is supposed to hit this stance, and 33 00:02:37.919 --> 00:02:46.000 that's the Hollywood Invasion. Our esteemed colleague Jason McClellan, who does the UFO 34 00:02:46.199 --> 00:02:51.520 News updates every week as a guy, who wrote the cover story on the 35 00:02:51.560 --> 00:02:53.800 Invasion of Hollywood. My mom really liked it, by the way she read 36 00:02:53.800 --> 00:02:58.800 that the other Dan. She thought it was great that Jason's a good writer, 37 00:02:59.039 --> 00:03:02.960 she said, so he's not too bad, So that's very exciting. 38 00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:06.080 You're going to be able to pick that up at the stands if you're not 39 00:03:06.120 --> 00:03:08.599 a subscriber yet, or like many of you do who are subscribers, you 40 00:03:08.680 --> 00:03:12.199 go to the stands and you buy five or six and give them to your 41 00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:15.080 friends and family. So we encourage that and thank you for that as well. 42 00:03:15.800 --> 00:03:19.800 If you're in the Irvine, California area, or you just want to 43 00:03:19.840 --> 00:03:23.919 fly out to move on from July twenty ninth to thirty first, you'll also 44 00:03:23.000 --> 00:03:27.599 be able to meet some of us out there. You'll be able to meet 45 00:03:27.639 --> 00:03:32.360 Maureen Elsberry. She's famous on YouTube now for our UFO update videos, if 46 00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:38.599 you can go check her out there. Jason will also be there. Our 47 00:03:38.800 --> 00:03:43.680 editor in chief, Angela will be there, and so we'll be there to 48 00:03:43.759 --> 00:03:50.080 sign magazines and to you'll be able to take pictures with us. And you 49 00:03:50.120 --> 00:03:53.080 know, because we're famous. I can even prove it. Yesterday, I'm 50 00:03:53.080 --> 00:03:58.360 gonna plug myself. I was out filming for a Travel Channel show on the 51 00:03:58.360 --> 00:04:01.400 paranormal. So hopefully that'll come out soon and that'll be fun and I'm not 52 00:04:01.479 --> 00:04:05.719 afraid to brag about it, because that was pretty cool. Anyway, Let's 53 00:04:05.759 --> 00:04:12.520 get to some of the exciting staff that we cover at Openminds dot tv on 54 00:04:12.599 --> 00:04:17.079 a daily basis, and that is UOPO News and the gentleman I mentioned before, 55 00:04:17.160 --> 00:04:23.000 Jason McClellan, it's here to tell us all about it. Hello mister 56 00:04:23.120 --> 00:04:29.519 McClellan, Hello Alejandro, and greetings everyone. This is your Open Minds newsbury 57 00:04:29.560 --> 00:04:35.199 for Monday, July eleventh, twenty eleven. For those who can't figure that 58 00:04:35.240 --> 00:04:41.199 out, that would be seven eleven eleven. As you pointed out this morning, 59 00:04:41.240 --> 00:04:45.600 Allow, I was very excited about that seven eleven eleven. There's some 60 00:04:45.680 --> 00:04:50.519 kind of numerological conspiracy there. I wonder if seven eleven is doing any sort 61 00:04:50.560 --> 00:04:56.160 of special promo. Have you noticed they've been doing a lot of extraterrestrial theme 62 00:04:56.279 --> 00:05:00.680 movie promos. They're doing Cowboys Alliens right now, and they did a big 63 00:05:00.959 --> 00:05:06.279 promotion for Super eight as well. The snurpee might be a back engineered technology. 64 00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:12.519 Wasn't now this is backmore in your era, Alejandro. But wasn't one 65 00:05:12.519 --> 00:05:16.079 of their slogans something like there's something afoot or something I don't remember something like 66 00:05:16.120 --> 00:05:20.120 that. Maybe I'm just thinking of Bill and Ted's excellent adventure. I think 67 00:05:20.199 --> 00:05:24.120 so excellent. Well, let's get into the news, Alejandro. We'll start 68 00:05:24.160 --> 00:05:29.480 with sort of a peculiar story. The US government filed suit against Apollo astronaut 69 00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:33.759 doctor Edgar Mitchell on Wednesday, July or June twenty ninth in Miami federal court 70 00:05:33.879 --> 00:05:40.040 in attempts to reclaim a sixteen millimeters data acquisition camera that we used during the 71 00:05:40.120 --> 00:05:44.560 nineteen seventy one Apollo fourteen lunar mission. According to The Washington Post, the 72 00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:48.759 lawsuit contends Mitchell recently tried to sell the camera at an auction. The movie 73 00:05:48.759 --> 00:05:53.040 camera from the lunar surface was reportedly going to be auctioned off by the British 74 00:05:53.079 --> 00:05:58.120 auction house Bonhams as part of a Space History sale in May with a pre 75 00:05:58.240 --> 00:06:02.879 sale estimate of six to eight thousand dollars, but Bombs pulled the camera from 76 00:06:02.920 --> 00:06:06.560 the auction when they learned about the lawsuit. As Discovery News explains, the 77 00:06:06.600 --> 00:06:12.399 suit points out that all equipment and property used during NASA operations remains the property 78 00:06:12.439 --> 00:06:16.199 of NASA unless explicitly released or transferred to another party, and that NASA had 79 00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:20.600 no knowledge of Mitchell being given the camera. While NASA asserts ownership of the 80 00:06:20.639 --> 00:06:26.600 camera in question, Mitchell's attorney, Donald Jacobson contends objects from the lunar trip 81 00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:30.040 to the Moon were ultimately mounted and then presented to the astronauts as a gift 82 00:06:30.240 --> 00:06:35.279 after they helped NASA on a mission. Jacobson also stated that NASA approved the 83 00:06:35.279 --> 00:06:40.680 transferring of ownership of the camera to Mitchell forty years ago, So it's kind 84 00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:43.800 of strange that they would wait forty years to bring this lawsuit to get their 85 00:06:43.839 --> 00:06:48.120 camera back, And some contend that maybe they didn't realize it was gone until 86 00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:55.800 now they just started going through there they lost lis Apollo film, so it's 87 00:06:55.839 --> 00:06:59.839 possible. They're very bad with records. They're very bad with their inventory tracking. 88 00:07:00.040 --> 00:07:02.839 Do you see a conspiracy here. No, I don't see a conspiracy, 89 00:07:02.879 --> 00:07:08.120 but many people do. Yeah, well he did. They were seemingly 90 00:07:08.439 --> 00:07:14.560 upset about his you know, recent criticisms about NASA holding stuff back correct, 91 00:07:14.639 --> 00:07:18.720 And of course Edgar Mitchell has been outspoken about his belief in extraterrestrials. So 92 00:07:18.839 --> 00:07:24.360 that's something else that fuels some of the conspiracy thoughts right now that maybe NASA's 93 00:07:24.480 --> 00:07:28.600 coming to get this camera because it might contain some incriminating evidence or something. 94 00:07:28.639 --> 00:07:31.839 But that would make more sense it was a camera from today, a digital 95 00:07:31.839 --> 00:07:34.360 camera that has a card in it or something. But this is an old 96 00:07:34.399 --> 00:07:40.720 sixteen millimeter film camera, alien second side of it forty years ago. If 97 00:07:41.160 --> 00:07:44.879 there were footage on it, I'm sure if you've got it already. Yeah, 98 00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:46.399 if there's any conspiracy, maybe just give them a hard time because he 99 00:07:46.439 --> 00:07:49.680 gave them a hard time. Kind of say you're not our friend anymore because 100 00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:54.079 you're being a jerk or something. But then another theory that's been put forward 101 00:07:54.199 --> 00:07:58.920 is that NASA needs money, and I'm sure it cut their attention when Hey, 102 00:07:58.920 --> 00:08:01.240 this piece of junk cameras to fetch eighty grand. We want that eighty 103 00:08:01.279 --> 00:08:07.519 grand. Yeah, we can build another rover tire with that. Yeah, 104 00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:09.040 it's not too far off, my friend. Yeah, that as it is. 105 00:08:11.120 --> 00:08:13.079 Let's talk about crop circles. We have another crop circle to talk about. 106 00:08:13.319 --> 00:08:16.879 It was a crop circle that appeared in a wheat field two weeks ago. 107 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:22.439 And this is sort of a hometown crop circle for Oslahandra because it's here 108 00:08:22.439 --> 00:08:26.959 in the US of A not an English crop circle, crop circle, USA. 109 00:08:26.199 --> 00:08:30.519 That's right. So this one was in Beardstown, Illinois, And I 110 00:08:30.600 --> 00:08:33.720 like that name. I wonder if people there have beards, lots of beards 111 00:08:33.720 --> 00:08:37.159 in Beardstown, Illinois, I would grow a beard. That's a fantastic name. 112 00:08:37.240 --> 00:08:41.519 I would too. You'd feel you're not doing your job if you don't 113 00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:43.759 have a beard. And Beard's town people probably look at you, bunny, 114 00:08:43.879 --> 00:08:48.200 like you know, you're disloyal. You ain't got a beard, get out. 115 00:08:48.600 --> 00:08:52.120 Yeah. But this circle was forty nine feet in diameter and was initially 116 00:08:52.159 --> 00:08:56.600 discovered by the fields farmer who was driving around in this tractor and looked over 117 00:08:56.679 --> 00:09:01.399 and saw it, and he kind of he didn't believe it, and pulled 118 00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:03.600 out his cell phone camera took a picture of it, and he went over 119 00:09:03.639 --> 00:09:07.559 and actually investigated. He was looking around. He trace his footprints or anything, 120 00:09:07.559 --> 00:09:13.000 and didn't see anything. And then the BLT research team, which Nancy 121 00:09:13.000 --> 00:09:15.159 Talbot is a part of. We've had her on the show many times. 122 00:09:15.799 --> 00:09:20.440 They apparently came out and visited the field to examine the circle, but their 123 00:09:20.440 --> 00:09:24.360 results are still pending and the farmer has since plowed as crop, but the 124 00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:28.320 circle is still visible, as happens with crop circles, you can still sort 125 00:09:28.360 --> 00:09:31.720 of see it. And apparently this isn't the only strange thing that's happened in 126 00:09:31.759 --> 00:09:37.000 this field. Other strange things have happened before, such as I guess I've 127 00:09:37.039 --> 00:09:41.320 seen these before, you don't hear too much about it, but conjoined watermelons, 128 00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:46.120 cantalopes, and pumpkins all three probably not all three together, but like 129 00:09:46.159 --> 00:09:52.759 Siamese watermelons, like two together. And even another crop circle was seen there 130 00:09:52.080 --> 00:09:56.039 years ago in the same field. And really yeah, So while the farmer 131 00:09:56.200 --> 00:10:01.559 was initially intrigued by the crop circle, he said, if another one appears, 132 00:10:01.639 --> 00:10:05.440 he's going to immediately applow it because as a result of this recent circle, 133 00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:11.480 he's been completely inundated with calls from UFO and crop circle organizations on the 134 00:10:11.559 --> 00:10:15.480 circle. So he says the calls have just come in day and night NonStop. 135 00:10:16.120 --> 00:10:18.399 Oh no, he's overwhelmed and wants nothing to do with crop circle. 136 00:10:18.519 --> 00:10:22.519 Oh that's too bad. So it feels like, you know, we hear 137 00:10:22.519 --> 00:10:24.240 about that a lot with the with the farmers in England because they deal with 138 00:10:24.279 --> 00:10:28.679 it a lot. Yeah, but this guy was kind of intrigued by it, 139 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:33.360 but it was soured pretty quickly because just overwhelmed with people. Hopefully that's 140 00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:37.200 the type of person where you got to make a friends with and say, 141 00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:39.279 well, you know, if I understand your problems, just get a hold 142 00:10:39.279 --> 00:10:45.240 of me and on that, and hopefully BLT will make a good relationship with 143 00:10:45.320 --> 00:10:48.039 him and he'll trust them because at least they spend time to do something. 144 00:10:48.200 --> 00:10:54.600 I really I really admire the at least how how responsive he was to people 145 00:10:54.639 --> 00:10:58.320 wanting to research it a little bit. You know, he certainly welcomes BLT 146 00:10:58.519 --> 00:11:01.679 there and also of the local reporters I guess was able. He invited them 147 00:11:01.759 --> 00:11:05.559 out to the field to see the circle and do a report on it. 148 00:11:05.080 --> 00:11:09.679 So it was a simple circle, right, absolutely, Yeah, how interesting. 149 00:11:09.879 --> 00:11:13.679 I mean, I'm excited to hear what BLT finds and I'm sure they 150 00:11:13.679 --> 00:11:18.159 have some initial thoughts. So the preliminary results I saw. The only things 151 00:11:18.159 --> 00:11:22.159 that have been released from BLT was that when they got there they saw signs 152 00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:26.600 that could have been animal tracks, a few animal tracks in the area, 153 00:11:26.879 --> 00:11:30.120 but that's it. So yeah, it looks like a very clean, nice 154 00:11:30.120 --> 00:11:35.600 circle. Right. Wow. Well, let's talk about something we have been 155 00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:37.799 talking about a lot lately because it's been in the news a lot lately lately, 156 00:11:37.879 --> 00:11:43.679 and that is a radio telescopes. Astronomers in Australia hope that Western Australia 157 00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:48.320 will be selected as the home of the world's most powerful radio telescope. According 158 00:11:48.360 --> 00:11:52.559 to the International Business Times, Australia is in competition with nine African countries, 159 00:11:52.840 --> 00:11:56.279 including South Africa, that have made it to a short list of nominees to 160 00:11:56.279 --> 00:12:01.159 become the home of the Square Kilometer Array or Sky radio telescope. The Sydney 161 00:12:01.159 --> 00:12:05.600 Morning Herald reports that Australia is considered to be the best location for the Scott 162 00:12:05.679 --> 00:12:09.879 telescope, but politics could influence the decision. Professor Fred Wilson, astronomer in 163 00:12:09.960 --> 00:12:15.799 charge of the Australian Astronomical Observatory in New South Wales, is a major proponent 164 00:12:15.799 --> 00:12:20.720 of building the Scott Radio Telescope telescope in Australia. The Sydney Morning Herald quotes 165 00:12:20.720 --> 00:12:24.360 Swatson is saying the SCOT will be by far the most sensitive telescope ever built. 166 00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:28.759 It will have the potential to reveal all kinds of things, ranging from 167 00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:33.799 the possibility of picking up signals from aliens if they exist. The Scout radio 168 00:12:33.799 --> 00:12:37.399 telescope will also be used to explore dark matter and to explore the origins of 169 00:12:37.399 --> 00:12:41.120 the universe. A group of international scientists is expected to make the final decision 170 00:12:41.240 --> 00:12:46.879 in twenty twelve. Construction will then begin in twenty sixteen, leading to a 171 00:12:46.919 --> 00:12:52.200 projected operational date of twenty twenty four. That's so long ways away. Yeah, 172 00:12:52.279 --> 00:12:56.360 and again we talked about it last or two weeks ago. I guess 173 00:12:56.440 --> 00:13:01.240 we were off last week. But these radio telescops take a lot of money 174 00:13:01.279 --> 00:13:07.559 to operate. Yeah, big time bucks. So here's yet another one, 175 00:13:07.559 --> 00:13:11.960 and it will be the most sensitive, so most powerful. So we wish 176 00:13:13.039 --> 00:13:18.000 them well. And there again many other people picking up the slack for SETI, 177 00:13:18.039 --> 00:13:22.799 who was experiencing their own financial problems. And I noticed that the Russian 178 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:26.799 scientists are getting a little more news too. We wrote about them and them 179 00:13:26.799 --> 00:13:33.559 talking about SETI, and many actually sending messages, which is controversial because people 180 00:13:33.559 --> 00:13:35.720 think, god, oh the aliens will come get us and if we send 181 00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:39.960 them messages. But yeah, there's a lot there's it's interesting. There's definitely 182 00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:46.200 a lot of talk going on and people in other countries at least moving forward 183 00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:52.919 on possible SETI solutions and SETI interesting enough too, is being a universal term, 184 00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:56.840 not just here it's one organization but correct. But you know, being 185 00:13:56.840 --> 00:14:00.639 in the in the US, we hear a lot about out SETI, the 186 00:14:01.039 --> 00:14:05.000 US based SETI, But it's interesting to hear just how you know, these 187 00:14:05.080 --> 00:14:11.840 radio telescopes, these big telescope arrays are global. They're in various countries all 188 00:14:11.879 --> 00:14:16.159 over the world. Pretty soon everyone will have them. By twenty twenty four, 189 00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:22.919 they'll probably be able to make like a radio telescope hat that is wirelessly 190 00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:26.720 communicates with each other, and so we'll all be wearing these hat and it'll 191 00:14:26.759 --> 00:14:33.720 be like one gigantic, ginormous radio telescope. That's my idea. People freak 192 00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:35.960 out now about their cell phone's causing radiation, What do you think they're going 193 00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:39.919 to freak out about with a big, big, don't mind. We still 194 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:43.039 use the radio for like, I don't care radiate my head. I need 195 00:14:43.039 --> 00:14:46.120 my text messages. You're true. Yeah, you're exactly right. I keep 196 00:14:46.120 --> 00:14:50.039 my phone with me all the time. Yeah. Whatever, I'll take it. 197 00:14:50.840 --> 00:14:54.960 Let's talk about this, Alejandro. More fireballs now, I'm fascinated by 198 00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:58.600 these. We hear a lot of stories about fireball UFOs. Aren't you fascinated 199 00:14:58.600 --> 00:15:03.120 by fi? I am lately, especially with the Yeah, some of these 200 00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:09.399 are crazy. And there was a fireball UFO seen in the sky above Guernavaca, 201 00:15:09.720 --> 00:15:13.440 Mexico, on Wednesday, June twenty ninth, and one witness captured the 202 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:16.879 flaming object on video from the side of the road. The Epic Times described 203 00:15:16.879 --> 00:15:20.240 the object in the video as looking like a meteorite dropping from the sky, 204 00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:24.720 with a bright, pinkish orb at the bottom, trailed by two long, 205 00:15:24.759 --> 00:15:28.159 glowing orange tails, but The Telegraph points out that people who have viewed the 206 00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:33.240 video speculate the object could simply have been a meteor or space junk. However, 207 00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:37.879 the slow movement and trajectory of the object in this video presents the possibility 208 00:15:37.879 --> 00:15:43.480 that the UFO was actually an airplane and the glowing orange tails were simply the 209 00:15:43.519 --> 00:15:48.799 sun reflecting off the condensation trails from the plane. An aerial object's trajectory can 210 00:15:48.799 --> 00:15:54.240 be difficult to determine, and optical illusions have certainly thrown people off before. 211 00:15:54.759 --> 00:15:58.039 If you remember the mystery missile off the coast of California that was caught on 212 00:15:58.120 --> 00:16:03.440 video back in November twenty ten, and that would appear to be a missile 213 00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:07.440 blasting through the California sky was simply an airplane. No, because of the 214 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:11.000 angle of the video camera and the plane's long vapor trail, the object appeared 215 00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:15.559 quite missile like in the video. Well, the object observed last Wednesday above 216 00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:21.039 gueninavaka meh Coo may have been an airplane. No official identification has been made, 217 00:16:21.519 --> 00:16:26.000 but as the Epic Time points out, fireball UFOs are witnessed in countries 218 00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:32.320 all over the world, and we've reported that certainly in recent weeks, and 219 00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:37.759 in fact today, well it was last week there was another fireball UFO scene 220 00:16:37.799 --> 00:16:42.559 in Georgia and it looked identical to this one, the same sort of like 221 00:16:42.639 --> 00:16:47.360 winged pattern with the right. That's what's incredible about these, They seem to 222 00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:52.399 be almost like it's very strange. It's like a. It's maybe a circular 223 00:16:52.480 --> 00:16:56.399 thing with two tails, one on each side, the left and the right. 224 00:16:56.799 --> 00:17:00.600 I mean, and we've seen several of these. In one of the 225 00:17:00.679 --> 00:17:06.960 videos, it seems clear that the object changes its trajector. That is correct. 226 00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:10.559 I think these videos are really weird. I mean, we haven't seen 227 00:17:10.599 --> 00:17:12.079 these before. All of a sudden, there's a string of them. I 228 00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:15.319 mean on a regular basis. If they were just jets, you'd think people 229 00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:19.559 would record this sort of thing on a regular basis, but it seems far 230 00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:23.599 and few between. With the Mexico one, I believe it was suggested that 231 00:17:23.599 --> 00:17:29.279 it could possibly be some sort of supersonic jet or something, and you can 232 00:17:29.319 --> 00:17:33.480 see that with it has a weird distinctive wing pattern, and to me the 233 00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:41.160 wings almost almost look like the Virgin Galactic plane. How they're yeah weird, 234 00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:42.720 but yeah, no idea what they are. And like you said, some 235 00:17:42.759 --> 00:17:48.319 of them go straight and some change their direction. That's entirely possible some secret 236 00:17:48.359 --> 00:17:52.480 space plane or something going on. That's what I think is interesting about that 237 00:17:52.519 --> 00:17:57.160 missile out of LA because that now they're saying could possibly be a plane, 238 00:17:57.160 --> 00:18:02.240 but a lot of experts were saying back then it is a missile, and 239 00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:06.799 I was curious and I looked into this and a little bit about you know, 240 00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:10.279 the space plane that the air worse, the secret space plane unmanned that 241 00:18:10.319 --> 00:18:12.920 they've been flying around. They call it secret even though they told the public 242 00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:17.240 about it, but they're still secret about what it does. Where the heck 243 00:18:17.319 --> 00:18:21.400 did they launch that thing? And what if people when people see the missile 244 00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:26.119 launch and I guess in California and southern California they do launch missiles kind of 245 00:18:26.200 --> 00:18:30.279 underregular that's where they launch their secret payloads out of so and of course, 246 00:18:30.839 --> 00:18:34.319 just like they were with the unmanned space plane, they're unclear, or they 247 00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:37.759 don't come forth with the information, or they leave information out, or they 248 00:18:37.799 --> 00:18:44.920 just straight out lie. So who knows what Those things can be very interesting. 249 00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:48.400 Yeah, you're right, there's a lot of unknowns up there that are 250 00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:51.480 bull from here or not from here. So you know what I think it's 251 00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:53.319 cool too, is that the Epic Times has been picking up a lot of 252 00:18:53.480 --> 00:18:59.440 UFOs. They were in health and they ran your video that's gotten nearly two 253 00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:03.519 hundred hits on YouTube, right, And then the next one was these orb 254 00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:07.799 things, these fireballs, which they've been running stories on for the last couple 255 00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:11.599 they have been focusing more on things like this. Yeah, it's interesting, 256 00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:17.400 pretty cool, good job, epic times, epic times, rocks all right, 257 00:19:17.480 --> 00:19:22.119 and one more, one more story we'll do hear about something from our 258 00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:26.680 home base of Phoenix. The first monsoon storm of the year slammed Phoenix last 259 00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:30.119 Tuesday evening. I'm sure many of you heard about this and saw the crazy 260 00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:36.920 pictures and videos online of the storm arriving in the form of an ominous haboob. 261 00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:40.880 And for those of you not for what they don't know, Alejandro is 262 00:19:40.920 --> 00:19:44.640 called a haboob. A haboob is a massive wall of dirt. And I 263 00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:49.960 must correct media around the world because and even some some not so far away 264 00:19:51.880 --> 00:19:57.720 media organizations keep referring to the storm as the sandstorm. And this is Arizona. 265 00:19:57.880 --> 00:20:03.160 We don't I don't have sand dirt, Yeah, the big dirt dirt. 266 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:06.680 Where we're not the Middle East. We have dust storms, just big 267 00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:12.480 dirt storms, disgusting, But we had one last Tuesday evening and a video 268 00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:17.759 of the impressive haboob's approach was shot by a camera on a helicopter belonging to 269 00:20:17.799 --> 00:20:22.480 local ABC News affiliate KNXV and This video quickly gained international attention when CNN posted 270 00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:26.920 the video to their website and two lights in the video are visible, both 271 00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:32.039 appearing very close to the mammoth wall of dirt. One of these UFOs simply 272 00:20:32.039 --> 00:20:34.960 hovers while the other moves through the sky and eventually flies over to the KNXV 273 00:20:36.039 --> 00:20:40.720 helicopter. Some viewers began to speculate that these UFOs were extraterrestrial in origin, 274 00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:47.480 and various people were putting up videos on YouTube showing the CNN video and adding 275 00:20:47.480 --> 00:20:49.880 their own commentary and pausing the video and saying, see it looks like a 276 00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:55.680 saucer. It's a UFO. But the identity of the mysterious moving light soon 277 00:20:55.720 --> 00:21:00.880 became apparent when the Phoenix Fox affiliate KSAZ aired a story about a Southwest Airlines 278 00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:03.759 plane that was making its final approach to Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport as the 279 00:21:03.799 --> 00:21:08.240 haboub was rolling in. According to KSAZ, the plane couldn't land on its 280 00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:12.400 first approach and for some reason had to turn around and land to the west 281 00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:17.640 just before the cloud covered Sky Harbor. As for the identity of the stationary 282 00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:21.839 object in the sky, it was most likely another news helicopter and quite possibly 283 00:21:21.880 --> 00:21:25.960 it was the news helicopter that captured video footage who was published by Russia today 284 00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:30.039 showing an alternate angle of the Southwest Airlines plane as it was coming in. 285 00:21:30.519 --> 00:21:33.279 So I think we identified them. It's kind of interesting watching them in the 286 00:21:33.319 --> 00:21:37.200 video and you see different angles. You can't really tell for a while. 287 00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:41.119 It looks like the Southwest airplane isn't moving, but it's just the angle it's 288 00:21:41.160 --> 00:21:45.200 coming in. And an interesting tidbit here. My mother in law was on 289 00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:48.720 that flight. Oh you're kiddings? You want? Oh that was the south 290 00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:52.519 Line. Amazing view, Holy cat. Yeah. The pilot was kind of 291 00:21:52.519 --> 00:21:53.920 freaked out too. He said he'd never seen anything like it, and they 292 00:21:53.960 --> 00:21:59.000 just watched it was rolling in and wow, pretty cool. Yeah, and 293 00:21:59.039 --> 00:22:03.720 thanks to ABCS fifteen for referring to your story on that. Absolutely. Yeah. 294 00:22:03.759 --> 00:22:07.680 And the ominous Haboob Haboo. I like that name, the ominous haboom 295 00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:11.440 ominous Haboob. It's fun to say a name or something. And I'm for 296 00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:15.640 those of you who have never heard of a huboo, I'm glad we could 297 00:22:15.720 --> 00:22:19.240 educate you today. We try to provide some education with our show wallet what 298 00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:23.440 it's all about dirt. Yes, disgusting wall of dirt. All right, 299 00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:27.000 Well, that is it for the news, Alejandro. Remember to check out 300 00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:30.920 these stories and more at openminds dot tv, your source for UFO related news. 301 00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:34.440 I'm Jason McLellan, your Open Minds News correspondent, and you've been briefed 302 00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:38.759 back to you, mister Alejandro. All right, thank you, Jason, 303 00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:44.319 And if you want to see more hoboob action you see go on my Facebook. 304 00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:47.240 I had a couple of pictures because I drove into that wall. It 305 00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:49.079 was funny. My mom gave me a call and said, there's a big 306 00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:52.519 storm company you should wait it out, and I'm like, oh, way, 307 00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:56.000 man, I want to drive through that sucker. I've been waiting for 308 00:22:56.319 --> 00:23:00.000 a hoboob to come around. Although I didn't know the term hoboo either until 309 00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:06.160 the next day. I thought it was a big dirt storm. So very 310 00:23:06.200 --> 00:23:10.720 exciting stuff around here in Phoenix. And some of the other stories I want 311 00:23:10.759 --> 00:23:17.240 to tell you about that you can see on our website recently. Of course, 312 00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:22.559 we talked about the fireballs. But Antonio found a really interesting Vietnam UFO 313 00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:26.839 story. And this is cool because it was discovered by the National Archives. 314 00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:33.799 It was in the logs of one of the bases out there in Vietnam, 315 00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:37.880 just talking about a UFO siding people had seen. And this gentleman who wrote 316 00:23:37.880 --> 00:23:41.000 the blog about it with the National Archives who found it was kind of did 317 00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:44.920 his own analysis and said, you know, we can't figure out what this 318 00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:48.680 thing is. It seems to be a real genuine UFO. So that was 319 00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:52.359 really cool. So you're going to have to check that out on the site. 320 00:23:52.640 --> 00:24:00.640 Also, we have other stories such as I mentioned the Roswell story a 321 00:24:00.680 --> 00:24:04.920 little bit where this is kind of exciting because really this is the first time 322 00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:11.200 these four main researchers have gotten together, and that's Kevin Randall, Tom Carey, 323 00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:15.319 Don Schmidt, and Stanton Friedman. They haven't all been together in one 324 00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:19.359 place ever, I don't think, at least to do a panel, and 325 00:24:19.400 --> 00:24:23.799 I know some of them haven't been together for a long time, and so 326 00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:27.160 it was great to have them together on this panel here in Roswell. And 327 00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:32.519 I was able to get some pictures of that along with Julie Schuster who runs 328 00:24:33.079 --> 00:24:37.279 the Roswell UFO Museum, the famous Roswell UFO Museum, so you can see 329 00:24:37.279 --> 00:24:41.359 some pictures of that. And it was really at the end of this press 330 00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:48.519 conference that Frank Kimbler came up to speak and he talked about some medals that 331 00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:53.640 he discovered, and he told the very interesting story about how he discovered the 332 00:24:53.680 --> 00:24:59.519 medals and the analysis he has done, and for the first time on air. 333 00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:04.519 You all are lucky enough to hear this story from Frank himself. In 334 00:25:04.599 --> 00:25:11.240 fact, let us go ahead and get mister Kimbler online and talk to him 335 00:25:11.839 --> 00:25:19.839 directly. I am very happy to have mister Frank Kimbler on the phone. 336 00:25:19.880 --> 00:25:25.119 Frank, are you there. I'm I'm here. Hello, how are you 337 00:25:25.960 --> 00:25:33.160 I I'm doing wonderful here in sunny, hot Roswell, New Mexico. Yeah, 338 00:25:33.160 --> 00:25:36.039 I bet you. You're probably rivaling ACT. I think we're at one 339 00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:40.319 o seven today. What about you? It's it's over one hundred today and 340 00:25:40.359 --> 00:25:44.079 the humidity is up really high. With you. Oh really? Yeah really? 341 00:25:44.119 --> 00:25:45.440 All you want to do is kind of stay inside and stay cool. 342 00:25:45.799 --> 00:25:53.480 Yep, thank goodness for ac Absolutely so. You've been, though, spending 343 00:25:53.519 --> 00:26:00.319 some time out in the desert in this Roswell project looking for Stuf. And 344 00:26:00.680 --> 00:26:06.920 I guess my first question that started at the beginning is how did you get 345 00:26:06.920 --> 00:26:15.119 interested in investigating the Roswell case. Yeah, I was. I was kind 346 00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:19.960 of fascinated by it. I'd always been fascinated by UFOs. I actually saw 347 00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:25.880 one when I was probably I think it was about twenty two years old, 348 00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:30.839 I guess. I was camping out at Tucumcarry and it was late at night, 349 00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:33.519 and I was camping out with a friend of mine and he said, 350 00:26:33.559 --> 00:26:34.200 hey, you know, look up in the sky. And I looked up 351 00:26:34.200 --> 00:26:37.559 there and I says, oh, it's just a satellite, and he says, 352 00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:40.160 no, watch what it does. And I looked at it for a 353 00:26:40.160 --> 00:26:44.000 second or two more in a thing zigzagged back and forth and disappeared, and 354 00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:45.200 I'm going, oh, well, maybe I had one too many beers, 355 00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:49.839 and I said, hey, I'm done. After that. I'm going, 356 00:26:49.880 --> 00:26:53.920 well, you know that's a UFO, and I've been interested in it now 357 00:26:53.920 --> 00:26:59.599 when I moved out out to when I moved to Roswell, I didn't even 358 00:26:59.680 --> 00:27:02.960 visit the UFO museum very much. I mean at all. I didn't didn't 359 00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:06.160 go there. And then after I see for about six months because there was 360 00:27:06.200 --> 00:27:11.319 so much UH Roswell such is buried so much in the mystique of of the 361 00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:15.960 uh of the Roswell incident. I decided to read a bunch of books, 362 00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:18.319 look at all the documentaries, talk to as many people. I ran into 363 00:27:18.359 --> 00:27:22.079 some some relatives of eyewitnesses and stuff, and I says, there's really something 364 00:27:22.119 --> 00:27:26.400 to this. Then I said, you know, why don't I put my 365 00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:33.279 uh my scientific expertise to work on this and see if I can maybe help 366 00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:37.039 solve maybe find some physical evidence. I mean, that's that's what I basically 367 00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:41.680 went out to look for. So, uh that's essentially how I got started 368 00:27:41.720 --> 00:27:45.599 with it. I I wanted to. I wanted to. I want to 369 00:27:45.640 --> 00:27:48.799 find something. I basically wanted to get some kind of proof, which was 370 00:27:48.839 --> 00:27:52.759 what was missing. And uh So, like I said, I read all 371 00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:59.960 the books and read all the documentaries and then formulated a plan and and uh 372 00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:04.440 got pretty frustrated after a while looking for things. But it seems it seems 373 00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:10.319 to have panned out. Now, your colleagues and your students at the New 374 00:28:10.359 --> 00:28:17.519 Mexico Military Institute, do they know of your interests. There's only a very 375 00:28:17.799 --> 00:28:22.359 that there's there's very few of them. I I don't talk about the UFO 376 00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:25.839 stuff very much where I work, hardly at all. There's there's a few 377 00:28:25.880 --> 00:28:30.720 people that that know of my interest in it, they talk to me about 378 00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:33.559 it, but usually not not much, and certainly not during during working hours, 379 00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:37.960 usually at lunchtime or something. They might if they've asked me a little 380 00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:41.519 bit. The students, I I don't involve them with it at all. 381 00:28:41.640 --> 00:28:47.680 Uh. I've had maybe one or two asked me some things that kind of 382 00:28:47.720 --> 00:28:51.839 came out, maybe during a study hall or something like that. But I 383 00:28:52.200 --> 00:28:56.799 usually I usually keep keep my research, the UFO research, away from my 384 00:28:56.799 --> 00:29:03.200 my work at at the New Mexico Military Institute. Well, I know when 385 00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:06.640 we're doing some of the festivals out there, and I was involved with organizing 386 00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:11.599 a few of them in the past few years that the Military Institute let us 387 00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:18.680 use their hall. They're a big, great leader. Oh yeah, they 388 00:29:18.759 --> 00:29:22.279 just redid that. The place is huge. Yeah, it's beautiful. We 389 00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:27.319 did some of our presentations there and some of the people from the Institute would 390 00:29:27.319 --> 00:29:30.599 come and I don't remember who, you'd probably know who. And then maybe 391 00:29:30.640 --> 00:29:34.640 at autam and you know, hey, you're a UFO person, so my 392 00:29:36.440 --> 00:29:41.319 niked talk. But I would if this are the maybe administrators that you work 393 00:29:41.359 --> 00:29:45.960 with that know about this pretty open to it. Oh you know, it's 394 00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:51.319 all part of Roswell. They the people that work there, they know about 395 00:29:51.359 --> 00:29:57.279 the Roswell incident. And as a matter of fact, I saw I saw 396 00:29:57.319 --> 00:30:04.079 the son of the of some of our leadership basically at the opening for the 397 00:30:04.519 --> 00:30:08.640 for this Roswell festival that was downtown at the UFO Museum. I was quite 398 00:30:08.680 --> 00:30:12.759 surprised to see him there. His son is very much interested in the UFO 399 00:30:12.839 --> 00:30:18.759 phenomena. So cool. So your discovery started when, if I'm correct, 400 00:30:18.920 --> 00:30:26.680 you looked at some satellite images and were these images kind of of the general 401 00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:33.920 area where the the like the Sci Fi group did the dig where Ye? 402 00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:37.680 Absolutely what I did was actually used the Sci Fi group the what was it 403 00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:42.920 the it was the dig, Yeah, the Roswell Diggs. I used that 404 00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:47.119 kind of back engineered datl that. I looked at the science behind that, 405 00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:48.839 and I'm going, well, they can find big stuff, but they're not 406 00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:52.079 looking for the little stuff. But what I did was soon as I saw 407 00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:53.799 that, I'm going, you know what, I need to take a look 408 00:30:53.839 --> 00:30:59.160 at some satellite imagery. I'm pretty good with what's called multi spectral. So 409 00:30:59.200 --> 00:31:04.480 I pulled down some landset satellite imagery. I pulled down another satellite is called 410 00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:10.000 ASTOR. And then I also looked at some of the old like nineteen fifty 411 00:31:10.039 --> 00:31:18.200 four aerial photographs as well. And what I did was I manipulated the satellite 412 00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:25.680 imagery to enhance infrared and show areas where the ground was disturbed. And I 413 00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:32.319 was really quite surprised when I got the when I showed up on my computer 414 00:31:32.400 --> 00:31:37.240 screen, because the area that people talk to the witnesses talked about three quarters 415 00:31:37.240 --> 00:31:41.319 of a mile long, several hundred several hundred yards wide as a debris field, 416 00:31:41.359 --> 00:31:47.720 and this area that shows up, this disturbed area is right smack dab 417 00:31:47.880 --> 00:31:52.000 over the top in exactly the same direction that every that the witnesses have talked 418 00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:56.799 about. So I got pretty excited about that when I saw that, And 419 00:31:56.839 --> 00:32:01.359 you said it even had kind of a hardhead. It looked artificial. Yeah, 420 00:32:01.480 --> 00:32:07.599 the edges of it are perfectly, absolutely perfectly straight. It looks almost 421 00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:10.480 like a perfect rectangle, kind of squared off a little bit on the edges. 422 00:32:10.519 --> 00:32:15.440 And usually when you look at things like that, you do get some 423 00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:19.160 squared off edges in nature, but you don't get a whole bunch of right 424 00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:23.279 angles. They just don't show up like that. And this. This looked 425 00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:27.680 like it was artificial. This looked like somebody had either gone out there and 426 00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:30.519 burned it. Matter of fact, it looked a lot like a burn area, 427 00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:35.519 is what it looks like. Maybe from the late nineties, early two 428 00:32:35.599 --> 00:32:37.559 thousand, somewhere around there. Made it might have even been before that. 429 00:32:38.279 --> 00:32:43.920 But like I said, it seemed to it matches up. The area matches 430 00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:46.200 up perfect with the description of the witnesses. But it does look as if 431 00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:51.000 it is artificial, is what it looks like to me. Now, do 432 00:32:51.039 --> 00:32:53.400 you think the area was burned? You said it kind of. I think 433 00:32:53.440 --> 00:32:58.880 you even called it a scorch mark before it. Yeah, it's it was 434 00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:02.119 burned. Matter of fact. I've made several trips out to the out to 435 00:33:02.200 --> 00:33:07.279 the debris field, and there's there's lots of charcoal around from it. In 436 00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:09.599 in the area has been burned off, and it looks like it's been burned, 437 00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:15.240 probably and maybe a controlled burn. I guess that's the idea that I 438 00:33:15.359 --> 00:33:17.079 was the idea that I was looking to put across, as it looks like 439 00:33:17.119 --> 00:33:22.599 it was burned off because it stops at the road, it goes over to 440 00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:28.400 the edges of fence lines and it just stops and it makes perfect like I 441 00:33:28.400 --> 00:33:31.079 said, makes almost perfect straight lines rectangles is what it does. Do you 442 00:33:31.079 --> 00:33:36.640 know, do you have any idea why someone would do a controlled burned there? 443 00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:42.359 No, I don't. Uh. You know, there's all kinds of 444 00:33:42.440 --> 00:33:47.440 conspiracy things you can weave around this, because if there's any kind of small 445 00:33:47.519 --> 00:33:52.680 bits of metal, foil or anything that's that's caught up in the in the 446 00:33:52.759 --> 00:33:58.559 yucca plants or whatever, there's a possibility that if you burn something, you 447 00:33:58.640 --> 00:34:01.039 might be able to either it or melted, one of the two change its 448 00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:05.480 properties. There's all kinds of things that that kind of go through my mind 449 00:34:06.839 --> 00:34:09.159 when I think about this, because of burning off an area makes it easier 450 00:34:09.199 --> 00:34:15.000 to find things, but it also makes it It also changes the properties of 451 00:34:15.039 --> 00:34:17.599 metals because the metals get get hot, it changes the temper on the metals. 452 00:34:17.639 --> 00:34:22.960 There's all kinds of things that have gone through my mind in reference to 453 00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:29.239 that particular scorch mark. Mm hmm, so who knows? So then I 454 00:34:29.239 --> 00:34:32.880 guess you go out there, and did you go by yourself? Now? 455 00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:37.800 Actually I took my son with me on several occasions. Several occasions I've been 456 00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:42.559 out there by myself since it's such a remote area, you certainly don't want 457 00:34:42.559 --> 00:34:45.679 to be out in that location by yourself to get maake bed or hurt or 458 00:34:45.679 --> 00:34:52.000 whatever theirs. It's a long way to the nearest ranch house. And actually 459 00:34:52.039 --> 00:34:55.039 what time period was, It's about how long ago was it when you first 460 00:34:55.039 --> 00:35:00.400 went out there to visit the site. The first trip that I made was 461 00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:05.639 May of twenty ten. That's when I first went out there. And actually 462 00:35:05.679 --> 00:35:09.599 the first trip that I made out there was kind of a general walk around 463 00:35:09.840 --> 00:35:13.719 for six or seven hours. Doctor of my son crazy. He says, 464 00:35:13.719 --> 00:35:15.840 how can you look for how can you walk around in the desert for six 465 00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:20.400 or seven hours? And I says, well, think about if we were 466 00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:24.480 to find a piece of debris from an alien spacecraft. And that's what I 467 00:35:24.519 --> 00:35:28.599 told my son. I said, this would be a history making event if 468 00:35:28.719 --> 00:35:31.440 and I took a lot of notes, made a lot of and then it 469 00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:36.119 was the second trip that I made out there, which was about three days 470 00:35:36.199 --> 00:35:40.199 later, that actually I took a metal detector out use some of my used 471 00:35:40.199 --> 00:35:45.039 a little geology, a little bit of little physics, a little hydrology, 472 00:35:45.079 --> 00:35:50.719 a little bit of everything to try to plot and plan where small pieces would 473 00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:53.840 would have ended up. That's what I was looking for. And what did 474 00:35:53.920 --> 00:35:59.719 you start to find? Well, now, after I ran that metal detector 475 00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:01.920 that I have. Now, the metal detector that I've got can actually find 476 00:36:02.920 --> 00:36:08.000 metallic pieces as small as vbi's down to a depth of three inches. I 477 00:36:08.239 --> 00:36:13.480 was lucky because the ground was a damp. It makes for a really good 478 00:36:13.519 --> 00:36:17.639 metal detecting, so it had rained a few days before, and so I 479 00:36:17.639 --> 00:36:21.719 didn't find much. After that. I was getting real frustrated because the area 480 00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:23.880 is very clean. I was out there for probably three four, maybe five 481 00:36:23.960 --> 00:36:30.239 hours swinging the metal dettector. Found a couple of little pieces of metal ten 482 00:36:30.440 --> 00:36:35.559 Actually it was rusty, some rusty nails and things like that, but very 483 00:36:35.599 --> 00:36:39.119 few. And then in an ant hill, I got a ping that didn't 484 00:36:39.159 --> 00:36:43.280 sound like iron, because you can tell the difference in the metal detector, 485 00:36:43.800 --> 00:36:45.760 and I got pretty excited. And when I dug it up, it was 486 00:36:45.800 --> 00:36:50.480 down about a half inch three quarters of an inch deep, and I held 487 00:36:50.519 --> 00:36:55.800 this silvery aluminum metallic object in my hand. It was just I was probably 488 00:36:55.840 --> 00:37:00.880 eight or ten millimeters long by maybe four or five millimeters wide, and I'm 489 00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:04.440 holding my kind of staring at it. I'm going, oh my gosh, 490 00:37:04.679 --> 00:37:09.679 this it looks it looks like it looked to me like the descriptions of the 491 00:37:09.679 --> 00:37:14.280 material looked like shiny aluminum is what it looks like. And I'm going, 492 00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:19.119 well, this is pretty exciting. And that was the first discovery, and 493 00:37:19.159 --> 00:37:22.719 then subsequent trips that I made out there made some additional ones as well. 494 00:37:23.480 --> 00:37:30.000 And I mean chunks of aluminum, those are not I mean, you don't 495 00:37:30.039 --> 00:37:32.840 find chunks of aluminium in nature, right, Is that correct? No, 496 00:37:32.960 --> 00:37:38.639 you don't. It's either got to be associated with with with trash or whatever. 497 00:37:38.760 --> 00:37:45.559 But there there's no trash out there. I've walked around quite a bit 498 00:37:45.599 --> 00:37:49.840 and I haven't found anything even remotely resembles trash, except for a few little 499 00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:53.760 pieces of tin that probably came old rusty ten that came from whatever, maybe 500 00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:58.360 an old ranch building or something, I have no idea, but even that 501 00:37:58.519 --> 00:38:00.639 was few and far between, and in a couple of little nails. But 502 00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:06.000 as far as like stuff that's an aluminum alloy, there is nothing that even 503 00:38:06.760 --> 00:38:09.199 comes close to that. But it doesn't. The stuff doesn't look like trash. 504 00:38:09.239 --> 00:38:14.199 It's it's the material that I've the metallic debris that I've picked up from 505 00:38:14.239 --> 00:38:17.400 out there is very small, and it looks like a shredded even looks like 506 00:38:17.440 --> 00:38:21.280 it's been melted on the edges. Some of it even looks like it's been 507 00:38:21.400 --> 00:38:27.239 through some stress. Maybe maybe an explosion. I don't know. M hm. 508 00:38:27.840 --> 00:38:32.679 And just and for my knowledge too, just to understand aluminum a little 509 00:38:32.679 --> 00:38:38.400 better. I mean, of course, you know, other metals we do 510 00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:42.039 find, like gold, for instance, you can find a gold nugget. 511 00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:45.719 Yeah, but some metals I guess you just you won't find nuggets or or 512 00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:52.039 that metal existing in a in a large piece. Is that correct? Or 513 00:38:52.400 --> 00:38:55.280 that that was correct? You know, there's some natural elements that are out 514 00:38:55.320 --> 00:38:59.320 there, native elements they call them, that we can find. We can 515 00:38:59.400 --> 00:39:05.199 find gold in its raw form, we can find native native silver in its 516 00:39:05.280 --> 00:39:08.719 raw form, and we can find native copper in its in its raw form. 517 00:39:09.159 --> 00:39:14.639 But things like aluminum that does not occur in nature, we don't find 518 00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:17.199 raw aluminum. Aluminium is something that has to be manufactured, and that's the 519 00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:21.800 only way that we're going to find a piece of it is if somebody or 520 00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:25.400 something leaves a piece of it behind somewhere. Uh huh. So that's kind 521 00:39:25.440 --> 00:39:30.199 of exciting because I mean like you said, others than you know, mingled 522 00:39:30.519 --> 00:39:36.199 among trash. I you know, how would you find just aluminum pieces, 523 00:39:36.679 --> 00:39:40.280 I guess unless maybe something made of aluminum, which I guess we don't have 524 00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:47.039 much it's made completely of aluminum that would somehow have broken up in the area. 525 00:39:47.239 --> 00:39:52.800 Well, you know things like aluminum cans. You know, people shoot 526 00:39:52.840 --> 00:39:57.159 aluminum cans with guns. But even when they're shot with a shotgun and shot 527 00:39:57.280 --> 00:40:01.400 multiple times with the gun, aluminum usually does not shred up like confetti. 528 00:40:04.039 --> 00:40:07.280 What it does is as a tendency, it'll hold together and kind of bend. 529 00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:10.920 And this material that I have found out there is they are tiny little 530 00:40:10.960 --> 00:40:15.440 pieces that are probably no more than a most of them are less than a 531 00:40:15.480 --> 00:40:20.960 quarter of an inch across. They are ripped and torn and shredded like like 532 00:40:20.960 --> 00:40:24.000 like paper, like confetti. This is what they are. And so you 533 00:40:24.119 --> 00:40:30.039 got interested in your finding and what did you do with those pieces? Well, 534 00:40:30.079 --> 00:40:34.159 the very first thing I did was a contact at the International UFO Museum, 535 00:40:34.280 --> 00:40:37.719 and I introduced myself, told them where I worked and what I did, 536 00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:43.119 and I was invited down to the museum and I met with the director 537 00:40:43.159 --> 00:40:46.360 there, Julie Schuster. I think that's her name. And I shouldn't say 538 00:40:46.679 --> 00:40:52.519 should that's her name? That is her name. So anyway, she'll be 539 00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:53.679 embarrassed if she if she hears that, just say, oh, Frank, 540 00:40:53.679 --> 00:40:58.719 can you remember my name? So I went down there and I showed her. 541 00:40:58.880 --> 00:41:05.440 She made arrangements and it was just by sheer luck that Don Schmidt and 542 00:41:06.159 --> 00:41:10.119 Jack Rodden was met me down there and they had a very close look at 543 00:41:10.119 --> 00:41:15.039 this piece of metal and they said, you know what you know, let's 544 00:41:15.159 --> 00:41:21.880 let's get this analyzed. And the museum actually paid for the very first analysis 545 00:41:21.920 --> 00:41:27.159 that was done, and it was done at New Mexico Tech over in Sacora. 546 00:41:27.280 --> 00:41:31.880 Was done via microprobe and they analyzed it five times and it came out 547 00:41:31.920 --> 00:41:40.519 to be in an aluminum silicon, magnesium, manganese copper alloy is what it 548 00:41:40.559 --> 00:41:45.599 came out to be. And it was a It's an alloy that's normally not 549 00:41:45.920 --> 00:41:52.239 found as a as like foil form. It's usually used in construction, like 550 00:41:52.280 --> 00:41:53.880 to build bridges. And I got kind of excited about this, but I 551 00:41:53.960 --> 00:41:59.000 knew that I needed to get some more work done on it. So I 552 00:41:59.119 --> 00:42:01.880 took the I took the fragment. Actually, what I wanted to do is 553 00:42:01.960 --> 00:42:06.880 gets an isotope analysis done on it right away, because it didn't it didn't 554 00:42:06.920 --> 00:42:12.400 look or have the chemistry like something you would expect to find out like normal 555 00:42:12.440 --> 00:42:15.639 trash. It was. It was a little different. So I went up 556 00:42:15.679 --> 00:42:19.960 to the University of New Mexico to their Institute of Meteoritics, and I tried 557 00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:22.079 to get their isotope person to take a look at it, and he's and 558 00:42:22.159 --> 00:42:25.599 I said, hey, I want to get some specific isotopes done on this. 559 00:42:27.239 --> 00:42:30.639 And the gentleman said, the only reason why you want those isotopes done 560 00:42:30.679 --> 00:42:35.719 is because you suspect this materials from outer space, is what he said. 561 00:42:36.119 --> 00:42:38.119 And he didn't know where. I didn't even say that the stuff came from 562 00:42:38.199 --> 00:42:43.639 Roswell. And then he came then basically says, why didn't you tell me 563 00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:45.760 where it's from? And I says, well, it's from the Roswell to 564 00:42:45.800 --> 00:42:47.079 Breefield and he says, no, I'm not going to look at this. 565 00:42:47.079 --> 00:42:51.559 This is a bunch of hohoy. Another one of the scientists that was in 566 00:42:51.599 --> 00:42:55.280 the office with me, he says, but what if it is, And 567 00:42:55.320 --> 00:42:58.320 he just says, oh, I'm not going to do this. So walking 568 00:42:58.360 --> 00:43:02.199 down the hallway. This other scientists said he was the manager of their microprobe 569 00:43:02.199 --> 00:43:07.199 facility at University of New Mexico. He said, I can't get you isotopes, 570 00:43:07.239 --> 00:43:10.519 but I can get you some really good numbers to help verify what you 571 00:43:10.639 --> 00:43:14.920 have from New Mexico Tech. So I said, that's good. So the 572 00:43:14.920 --> 00:43:19.079 next day we ran those and it came out pretty well at dead on match 573 00:43:19.199 --> 00:43:22.599 for what was done at New Mexico Tech, that it was in fact an 574 00:43:22.639 --> 00:43:30.280 aluminum silicon magnesium manganese copper alloy, and back to square one needed to get 575 00:43:30.280 --> 00:43:35.679 some more isotope work done on it. And now this guy, this guy 576 00:43:35.760 --> 00:43:38.559 you went to who denied you. I mean, was he abrace it right 577 00:43:38.559 --> 00:43:45.400 from the beginning or was he kind of he was, No, not really 578 00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:50.960 he was. He just kind of looked me square in the eye. And 579 00:43:51.039 --> 00:43:54.360 he didn't he didn't say, I don't want to mention his name, of 580 00:43:54.360 --> 00:43:59.000 course, he just looked me square in the eye. And he basically said 581 00:43:59.079 --> 00:44:01.800 that you have to believe that this his exact words where he says, this 582 00:44:01.840 --> 00:44:06.599 is a bunch of whoy don't you think it's a little far fetched? And 583 00:44:06.760 --> 00:44:08.519 he says, I'm not going to do this, and I mean that was 584 00:44:08.559 --> 00:44:14.079 about as blunt as anyone could possibly get. He didn't want to do it. 585 00:44:14.440 --> 00:44:20.239 Matter of fact, that seems to be when dealing with like universities or 586 00:44:20.280 --> 00:44:23.119 trying to deal with the universities are trying to deal with some research people that 587 00:44:23.159 --> 00:44:25.599 are out there. And I hate to say this, as soon as you 588 00:44:25.679 --> 00:44:32.159 mentioned the word UFO, they almost inadvertently shut down. You know. They 589 00:44:32.400 --> 00:44:36.840 they are afraid that maybe they're they're going to get laughed at, maybe they're 590 00:44:36.880 --> 00:44:42.000 tenures in trouble or something. I have no idea, but a lot of 591 00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:45.840 the I would have to say most of the universities won't even touch stuff like 592 00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:49.400 this with a ten foot poll if they know that it might be associated with 593 00:44:49.440 --> 00:44:52.920 the UFO. But like his assistance said, yeah, what if it's real. 594 00:44:53.039 --> 00:44:57.039 I mean, it's what if? And that is the main thing, 595 00:44:57.079 --> 00:45:00.760 and that's the reason why he ran He actually I was with him when he 596 00:45:00.840 --> 00:45:05.719 ran all the testing. I watched him calibrate the the equipment. I watched 597 00:45:05.880 --> 00:45:09.400 watched everything because I'm familiar with with the process and how it works. And 598 00:45:09.599 --> 00:45:15.159 he spent probably three or four hours working on this thing and getting some really 599 00:45:15.199 --> 00:45:20.239 good, really tight numbers that they basically help to confirm that we had an 600 00:45:20.320 --> 00:45:23.800 unusual metal from from the debris field and it needed some more work done on 601 00:45:23.840 --> 00:45:29.320 it. Mm hmm. So what was his reaction then? He was definitely 602 00:45:29.320 --> 00:45:34.760 he must have been interested. He must have found your original results from New 603 00:45:34.760 --> 00:45:38.119 Mexico Tech interesting. Huh. You know, I I got that general idea. 604 00:45:38.280 --> 00:45:42.480 You know, that's that's part of science. Part of science is to 605 00:45:42.559 --> 00:45:46.039 have curiosity. And that's one of the things that a lot of that that 606 00:45:46.360 --> 00:45:52.480 we might lack today is that that drive and that curiosity the search for the 607 00:45:52.599 --> 00:45:58.039 unknown. But the gentleman that did the work for me was genuinely curious and 608 00:45:58.159 --> 00:46:01.920 he was excited to work on the material and too and to look at it 609 00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:06.559 and it was it was good. I mean, I have to applaud him. 610 00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:09.559 The scientists that did the work for me at the University of New Mexico 611 00:46:09.639 --> 00:46:14.360 has worked on the Mars meteorites, he does stuff for NASA. And you 612 00:46:14.400 --> 00:46:16.599 know what I would I would consider him at the at the tops of my 613 00:46:16.679 --> 00:46:22.679 list as a as a really good research scientist. Great. So, yeah, 614 00:46:22.719 --> 00:46:25.119 you must have been pretty happy to get his help. Oh, absolutely, 615 00:46:25.599 --> 00:46:29.760 absolutely, Well, that's cool. At least somebody listened to you. 616 00:46:30.760 --> 00:46:35.920 Yeah. So yeah, moving on to your next step, you said next 617 00:46:35.960 --> 00:46:38.320 you needed to get some isotopic work done. Yeah, I needed to get 618 00:46:38.360 --> 00:46:42.840 some isotope work done. There was a little step in between that had to 619 00:46:42.880 --> 00:46:47.480 do with a big low aerospace. I drove. Yeah, I drove over 620 00:46:47.599 --> 00:46:55.199 to thanks to one of the move On investigators, Chuck Zakowski. It was 621 00:46:55.400 --> 00:47:00.440 really very nice nice to me last year when I met him at the at 622 00:47:00.440 --> 00:47:05.280 the UFO convention last year. Yeah, he is. He is an awesome 623 00:47:05.320 --> 00:47:10.519 guy, and he's a he's a good he does good investigation for moufon and 624 00:47:10.679 --> 00:47:15.960 uh. He he said that he knew he knew the Bigelow folk, and 625 00:47:15.960 --> 00:47:17.639 that knew that he knew a contact at Bigeloid put me in touch with them. 626 00:47:19.360 --> 00:47:22.760 Uh. It took many, many months to make the arrangements. It's 627 00:47:22.920 --> 00:47:28.960 Uh, there's a group called earth Tech out of Austin, Texas. It's 628 00:47:29.079 --> 00:47:34.960 run by Howel put Off and so he's he's pretty famous in his own right 629 00:47:35.159 --> 00:47:42.599 for his work on a lot of paranormal things and and some physics of space 630 00:47:42.639 --> 00:47:47.239 travel and gravity. Gravity gravity work is what he does. Anyway, I 631 00:47:47.320 --> 00:47:52.199 drove over there after arrangements were made to the Earth Tech Lab there there microprobe 632 00:47:52.280 --> 00:47:57.280 did not not microprobe, but their electron microscope was not working. They didn't 633 00:47:57.280 --> 00:48:01.599 have a microscope. All they had was what's called an air app X ray 634 00:48:01.599 --> 00:48:08.159 fluorescence unit that can't measure anything less than silicon. For so, it couldn't 635 00:48:08.199 --> 00:48:13.159 measure aluminum very well, can't measure silicon, can't measure a few other elements. 636 00:48:13.679 --> 00:48:15.559 But they did take a look at it. And when they looked at 637 00:48:15.559 --> 00:48:21.960 it with their equipment that they had, they basically said, well, this 638 00:48:22.280 --> 00:48:27.639 is this is unusual material and we want to have we want to have some 639 00:48:27.719 --> 00:48:30.280 isotope work done on it. And I says, well that's good. So 640 00:48:30.320 --> 00:48:35.360 they started making telephone calls and sending out emails and stuff. And then what 641 00:48:35.480 --> 00:48:38.960 happened was I did not leave any of the specimens with them. I brought 642 00:48:39.079 --> 00:48:42.400 the I brought all of it back, and I says, well, give 643 00:48:42.400 --> 00:48:45.119 me a call and let me know if you want me to come back and 644 00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:49.519 win, and I'll just drive over and bring it and we'll have it analyzed 645 00:48:49.719 --> 00:48:52.360 any any place doesn't make any difference. So a day, a couple of 646 00:48:52.440 --> 00:48:58.360 days went by and Bigelow basically said, or the big Low Aerospace people basically 647 00:48:58.400 --> 00:49:00.519 said, well, you know what, we're still working on this. That's 648 00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:02.559 going to be a week or two before we get it back. And I'm 649 00:49:02.599 --> 00:49:09.239 going okay, Well weeks turned into months, and finally they sent me a 650 00:49:09.280 --> 00:49:13.920 little report back and this is what they said. No further research will be 651 00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:16.920 done on this, and they didn't send me any data, any hard data. 652 00:49:16.960 --> 00:49:20.840 They just said, well, it looks like plain ordinary iluminum can to 653 00:49:20.960 --> 00:49:23.440 us, and they didn't send me any information on it. And I'm going, 654 00:49:23.480 --> 00:49:27.119 well that's I called them up and I said, well, that's not 655 00:49:27.199 --> 00:49:29.760 what you said when we were there. You said you were going to do 656 00:49:29.800 --> 00:49:32.199 some isotope work on it. Now apparently they changed their mind. I had 657 00:49:32.239 --> 00:49:37.599 to bug them consistently to get the data. So they sent me the hard 658 00:49:37.679 --> 00:49:42.920 data from their equipment and they ran two analysis The one that had iron in 659 00:49:42.960 --> 00:49:45.880 it they did not send to me. They sent only the one that was 660 00:49:45.920 --> 00:49:51.519 the aluminum magnesium silicon alloy. And it took me about a week to decompile 661 00:49:51.599 --> 00:49:53.920 the data to see if it matched the stuff from the University of New Mexico, 662 00:49:54.239 --> 00:50:02.719 which it did. And after that little scenario with the Bigelow folks. 663 00:50:04.079 --> 00:50:07.320 I contacted the museum again, UFO Museum. I said, we need to 664 00:50:07.320 --> 00:50:10.320 get isotopes done on this because Bigelow is not going to do it. A 665 00:50:10.360 --> 00:50:16.039 couple of questions too, Yes here, Yeah, it's unfortunate that they took 666 00:50:16.119 --> 00:50:21.239 so long, let alone, you know, not being very helpful. They 667 00:50:21.360 --> 00:50:23.199 took a real long time to get back to you. But it makes it 668 00:50:23.239 --> 00:50:27.760 sound then, And I guess one thing we should cover is that you've then 669 00:50:28.320 --> 00:50:32.800 at one point had found much more than just the one piece. Yes, 670 00:50:34.280 --> 00:50:38.239 in fact, the number, the total number of pieces, and it comes 671 00:50:38.239 --> 00:50:43.280 from different areas. It's not all plumped together. It's scattered over a very 672 00:50:43.559 --> 00:50:46.840 over a fairly large areas the debris field. But there's like fourteen or fifteen 673 00:50:46.880 --> 00:50:52.159 pieces that have been found, okay, and they're all pretty small pieces. 674 00:50:52.239 --> 00:50:54.280 Huh, they are all very small pieces. Well, like I said, 675 00:50:54.320 --> 00:50:59.119 it looks like it looks like aluminum confetti, is what it looks like. 676 00:51:00.719 --> 00:51:05.000 And you had a theory about that. I mean, your idea was that 677 00:51:05.440 --> 00:51:07.440 they would get the big pieces. It's the small pieces that they couldn't get 678 00:51:07.440 --> 00:51:12.800 that you decided to try to look for hued absolutely. You know what the 679 00:51:12.880 --> 00:51:16.400 technology that people have used out there. There's been a couple of archaeological digs. 680 00:51:17.559 --> 00:51:22.280 The archaeological digs, if I remember correctly, could not find anything less 681 00:51:22.360 --> 00:51:27.440 than with their electronics that they were using, anything less than an inch or 682 00:51:27.480 --> 00:51:32.480 two across. They did dig a number of holes, and they were using 683 00:51:32.639 --> 00:51:37.599 screens that basically had a mash of a quarter of an inch, So basically 684 00:51:38.559 --> 00:51:44.440 the holes that were dug nineteen eighty nine, I think Kufos was out there, 685 00:51:45.599 --> 00:51:50.280 and then there was two thousand Sci Fi Channel and I think again or 686 00:51:50.320 --> 00:51:52.559 two thousand and two whatever. There was a couple of other archaeological type digs 687 00:51:52.599 --> 00:51:59.800 that were done out there, but they could not and basically find stuff that 688 00:51:59.880 --> 00:52:02.199 was really really small. It would have to be stuff that was larger than 689 00:52:02.239 --> 00:52:06.760 a quarter of an inch across. And most of the fragments I have, 690 00:52:07.280 --> 00:52:08.719 or most of them, are smaller than a quarter of an inch a cross. 691 00:52:08.800 --> 00:52:12.800 So they might have helped you. They might have lifted through and got 692 00:52:12.840 --> 00:52:15.559 all the big stuff out of the way so you could get in there and 693 00:52:15.679 --> 00:52:21.800 find these little pieces. Well it might be, except for the fact that 694 00:52:19.679 --> 00:52:28.440 I wasn't too near where the archaeological digs were I was several hundred feet away 695 00:52:28.519 --> 00:52:34.199 from that, basically kind of following my own little science leads about runoff and 696 00:52:35.960 --> 00:52:39.760 how the vegetation grows, and of course looking at ant hills and animal burrows, 697 00:52:39.800 --> 00:52:45.280 which is what I primarily focused on. Now, maybe you can explain 698 00:52:45.320 --> 00:52:55.119 why the finding these isotopic values is so important. The isotopes. The isotope 699 00:52:55.199 --> 00:53:02.119 values are very much like our fingerprints. They the isotopes for elements. Certain 700 00:53:02.199 --> 00:53:13.639 concentrations of elements on Earth basically are unique specifically to Earth. And so what 701 00:53:13.840 --> 00:53:19.000 happens is if you know, basically, for instance, this alloy that I've 702 00:53:19.000 --> 00:53:23.280 got, which has some magnesium in it, you can check the magnesium isotopes 703 00:53:23.320 --> 00:53:28.280 and there's like three or four of them, four magnesium isotopes, and there's 704 00:53:28.039 --> 00:53:34.599 there's stable ones that are there, and it's magnesium twenty six, twenty five, 705 00:53:34.679 --> 00:53:37.400 and twenty four, I think is what they are. Those are the 706 00:53:37.679 --> 00:53:45.320 those are the elements, and the ratios of those four Earth are always the 707 00:53:45.360 --> 00:53:50.639 same. You can you can grab a seashell and it'll have the exact same 708 00:53:50.800 --> 00:53:58.320 ratios as seawater, or you can go and grab a you know, another 709 00:53:58.440 --> 00:54:01.679 alloy of another piece of metal that has magnesium in it, and as ratios 710 00:54:01.719 --> 00:54:06.920 will always show up. But the interesting thing about it is if it's not 711 00:54:07.079 --> 00:54:12.000 from Earth, it'll have a slightly different ratio. If you pull stuff from 712 00:54:12.079 --> 00:54:15.280 say like we've done, We've done some stuff I think from like the Mars 713 00:54:15.400 --> 00:54:20.079 meteorites, they have a slightly different ratio. And if you take a look 714 00:54:20.079 --> 00:54:25.239 at like chondrite meteorites, they also have a slightly different ratio because these things 715 00:54:25.280 --> 00:54:30.239 are not from Earth. And then we have done some work astronomy. It's 716 00:54:30.280 --> 00:54:36.519 not exactly precise for measuring isotopes the spectru from other stars that are many light 717 00:54:36.559 --> 00:54:42.559 years away, but we've looked at the magnesium isotope ratios for stars that are 718 00:54:42.559 --> 00:54:45.760 many light years away, and many many of them are different from what our 719 00:54:46.039 --> 00:54:51.400 Sun has. So our solar system, our Earth is is kind of unique 720 00:54:51.440 --> 00:54:54.039 when it comes to it's like a fingerprint. That's why these ratios are so 721 00:54:54.280 --> 00:55:00.800 important for determining whether something comes from Earth or whether it comes from another world. 722 00:55:01.280 --> 00:55:05.440 So I think I stopped you when you said you then went to the 723 00:55:05.519 --> 00:55:09.559 to the museum to see if they could help you get this done. Yes, 724 00:55:09.840 --> 00:55:15.119 I there's a there was a company out there which is an aerospace certified 725 00:55:15.679 --> 00:55:20.199 which is what I what you need to have is a certified laboratory. They're 726 00:55:20.280 --> 00:55:27.760 aerospace certified. They are they have multiple certifications, which means that when they 727 00:55:27.800 --> 00:55:31.199 do their analytical work, it's really good. I contacted that company. They 728 00:55:31.199 --> 00:55:36.239 gave me a price. I went to the UFO Museum. I says, 729 00:55:36.559 --> 00:55:39.519 let's get this done. They said, fine, we'll pay for it. 730 00:55:39.519 --> 00:55:45.599 It only took them five days to get the data back. And I almost 731 00:55:45.639 --> 00:55:49.960 fell over when I when I saw the information and and and plotted up the 732 00:55:50.400 --> 00:55:53.840 ratios were off. They were not. And I got very excited about it. 733 00:55:53.960 --> 00:56:00.840 When I looked at the magnesium isotope ratios. There's only two answers that 734 00:56:01.000 --> 00:56:07.360 you could have. Either the lab made an analytical error or the material is 735 00:56:07.480 --> 00:56:12.400 not from Earth. And those are those are the only two things that could 736 00:56:12.400 --> 00:56:22.159 possibly happen an aluminum being manufactured. It would Is there any incidence where you 737 00:56:22.199 --> 00:56:31.519 would have an aluminum created in an off planet in space somehow not by us? 738 00:56:32.280 --> 00:56:44.559 A right? And I mean that's that's following good scientific method protocols. 739 00:56:45.280 --> 00:56:49.320 One set of data is not going to cut it. You know, I 740 00:56:49.360 --> 00:56:52.599 can say, hey, this stuff is not is not from Earth, but 741 00:56:52.679 --> 00:56:55.079 there could also be a mistake. So what needs to be done now for 742 00:56:55.159 --> 00:57:01.079 this particular piece of metal is that it needs to be sent off to another 743 00:57:01.199 --> 00:57:06.159 lab, another certified lab and perhaps another one. So you need to get 744 00:57:06.159 --> 00:57:10.360 at least two more and you need to make sure that the information that you 745 00:57:10.440 --> 00:57:15.119 get back from them matches the information that you got from the lab that you 746 00:57:15.159 --> 00:57:19.360 already had to work done at. In other words, you need to have 747 00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:27.000 two or three, preferably three confirmations of the data that you already have showing 748 00:57:27.039 --> 00:57:32.920 this stuff is not from Earth in order to come forward and say this material 749 00:57:34.199 --> 00:57:42.280 is not manufactured on Earth, it was manufactured someplace else. So right now, 750 00:57:42.480 --> 00:57:45.920 I mean things are looking pretty positive. I mean you have a lab 751 00:57:45.960 --> 00:57:57.440 that certified that you have this information from and really indicators are yeah manufactured by 752 00:57:57.480 --> 00:58:01.159 someone but not here. Yeah, now they wouldn't the lab. Of course, 753 00:58:01.159 --> 00:58:05.800 the lab would not say that they're only they're only providing information. But 754 00:58:05.880 --> 00:58:10.800 the interpretation of the magnesium isotopes. Like I said, there's only two possibilities 755 00:58:10.960 --> 00:58:15.719 off world meaning not from Earth, or there is an error, which is 756 00:58:15.760 --> 00:58:20.639 why it needs to be verified by at least two more labs in order to 757 00:58:21.079 --> 00:58:27.199 make sure that that information is absolutely one hundred percent correct. It's just plain 758 00:58:27.360 --> 00:58:30.159 good science. Yeah, so it's pretty exciting. I mean, I don't 759 00:58:30.199 --> 00:58:37.280 know that we've been in that situation for sure, not with roswell, where 760 00:58:37.480 --> 00:58:46.559 a piece of suspected roswell debris has been analyzed or done an isotopic anolyos well. 761 00:58:46.639 --> 00:58:51.440 I think according to some of the work that that some of the research 762 00:58:51.519 --> 00:58:58.000 that I did, the museum did some isotope work a on several pieces of 763 00:58:58.079 --> 00:59:00.960 material. One of them's on display in the music. They hadn't done it 764 00:59:00.119 --> 00:59:05.239 Los Alamos and it was proved to be from Earth. They have that report 765 00:59:05.320 --> 00:59:09.760 over there at the in their research library. It was the there's a silver 766 00:59:10.239 --> 00:59:15.320 there's a copper silver alloy that's on display over there. It's really pretty. 767 00:59:15.360 --> 00:59:20.400 It's a kind of Japanese artwork stuff up and I'll have to I think it's 768 00:59:20.440 --> 00:59:27.719 called hakume Gane or something. It's really very pretty material that was analyzed because 769 00:59:27.719 --> 00:59:30.679 it looks like it's from another world. And also I think during the fiftieth 770 00:59:30.719 --> 00:59:37.719 anniversary there was some silicon that was looked at that was called I think the 771 00:59:37.760 --> 00:59:42.960 specimen was called r R three, and it was some work that was done 772 00:59:42.960 --> 00:59:46.559 on that, and they actually made an announcement that their isotope values might have 773 00:59:46.639 --> 00:59:51.480 been are didn't say, Mike, their isotope values were from another world. 774 00:59:52.039 --> 00:59:55.840 But then what happened was that was only one analysis. They didn't have multiple 775 00:59:55.920 --> 01:00:00.039 ones. And I think it was from what I've heard, a little bit 776 01:00:00.039 --> 01:00:07.800 of an embarrassment because it came out that that may not be from another world, 777 01:00:07.920 --> 01:00:12.000 it's probably from Earth, and it's probably silicon. And those are the 778 01:00:12.079 --> 01:00:16.000 kinds of things that I've actually run into because I've had another several researchers out 779 01:00:16.000 --> 01:00:21.679 there that basically have told me, they said, you know, Roswell has 780 01:00:21.719 --> 01:00:25.519 a lot of there's been some hoaxes out there. They also said that we've 781 01:00:25.519 --> 01:00:29.840 been down this path before. And I says, well, that's why I 782 01:00:29.880 --> 01:00:34.559 need help from the researchers that are out there, because I want to follow 783 01:00:34.880 --> 01:00:37.360 the right path and do this the right way, and I don't want to 784 01:00:37.360 --> 01:00:43.360 make any mistakes. And I've had some pretty good help from a few people 785 01:00:43.400 --> 01:00:47.480 that have done this before. So are you on Do you have plans for 786 01:00:47.519 --> 01:00:53.039 a second test? Yes? A second and a third those those are coming 787 01:00:53.119 --> 01:00:58.440 up here probably I bet within the next certainly within the next few weeks or 788 01:00:58.480 --> 01:01:01.199 so, we're going to be in We're going to get some more work done 789 01:01:01.239 --> 01:01:07.400 on this and see if we can get confirmation that this stuff is again from 790 01:01:07.559 --> 01:01:13.519 another world. I mean, I'm hopeful, And the only reason why I'm 791 01:01:13.519 --> 01:01:21.320 hopeful is that usually certified labs don't make like serious blunders on things. That's 792 01:01:21.360 --> 01:01:23.559 because that's the reason why they're certified. Not saying that it can't happen. 793 01:01:24.239 --> 01:01:30.559 But I am really keeping my fingers crossed and hoping that the science will prove 794 01:01:30.639 --> 01:01:37.239 that this material is not from Earth. It'll be pretty exciting news. And 795 01:01:37.320 --> 01:01:42.880 I mean the material can't just have been I mean you can't, like or 796 01:01:42.960 --> 01:01:45.840 can you can you take aluminum from Earth go melt it in space and its 797 01:01:45.840 --> 01:01:51.800 isotopic values change. No, as far as I know, and I'm not 798 01:01:51.840 --> 01:01:55.039 a metallurgist, I do not believe that. Besides that it would be incredible. 799 01:01:55.039 --> 01:01:59.760 Even if it could be done, somebody would have to have extremely deep 800 01:01:59.719 --> 01:02:07.239 pops and have Yeah, it would be not saying that people couldn't couldn't manufacture 801 01:02:07.480 --> 01:02:14.400 this material. It could be but it would be inexpensive in and uh and 802 01:02:14.480 --> 01:02:19.679 why would anybody want to make something that's that's that's fake, that looks like 803 01:02:19.679 --> 01:02:24.480 it's from another world and throw it all over the place it doesn't find it. 804 01:02:24.960 --> 01:02:29.079 Yeah, and that's true. And this material has been buried for a 805 01:02:29.159 --> 01:02:31.599 long time. You can tell by the corrosion that's on the surface. You 806 01:02:31.639 --> 01:02:37.039 can tell by the rounded edges on it. When you look at the material, 807 01:02:37.119 --> 01:02:38.400 like I said, it appears as though it's been melted. It's been, 808 01:02:38.679 --> 01:02:44.480 it's undergone, it's been under a little bit of stress. Some fragments 809 01:02:44.480 --> 01:02:49.239 of the pieces are folded over, probably as many as it's really very thin. 810 01:02:49.280 --> 01:02:54.840 It's been folded over probably six times and smashed flat. So it's been 811 01:02:55.000 --> 01:03:00.880 rolling around in the desert for a very very long time. I'm out there. 812 01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:06.119 Wow, well this is exciting. I'm really excited about this. You 813 01:03:06.159 --> 01:03:10.079 know, you obviously know what you're talking about. And and you did find 814 01:03:10.159 --> 01:03:15.360 something else, at least these buttons that were kind of interesting too, huh. 815 01:03:15.440 --> 01:03:22.280 That was that was that was a startling find because I in my search 816 01:03:22.440 --> 01:03:27.599 for little bits of metal, I wasn't I mean, I had found like 817 01:03:27.639 --> 01:03:30.360 a little bit of piece of tan, and I found an old tobacco can 818 01:03:30.400 --> 01:03:35.679 that was way up on the ridge, and some pieces of milk glass that 819 01:03:35.719 --> 01:03:38.679 are probably from the nineteen forties or whatever laying around out there. But when 820 01:03:38.760 --> 01:03:45.480 I found an aluminum button, I'm going, holy smokes. And of course 821 01:03:45.719 --> 01:03:49.360 the first thing that popped into my head instantaneously was, oh, maybe these 822 01:03:49.360 --> 01:03:51.320 are from an alien. I'm going, no, no, no, no, 823 01:03:51.320 --> 01:03:53.440 I can't be, no way, this is not going to be. 824 01:03:53.840 --> 01:03:59.480 But then that whole military thing popped into my head. As the military was 825 01:03:59.639 --> 01:04:03.880 out there, and I found not one, not two, but three aluminum 826 01:04:03.880 --> 01:04:09.199 buttons. One of them was buried almost three inches deep in hard packed clay, 827 01:04:09.360 --> 01:04:15.320 and I know for a fact that was really old, especially and buried 828 01:04:15.320 --> 01:04:18.719 that deep and hard packed clay. And I took lots of pictures of the 829 01:04:18.960 --> 01:04:23.519 of the buttons. I had the buttons sent out. I sent the pictures 830 01:04:23.559 --> 01:04:26.360 basically all over the world, didn't tell anybody where they came from. I 831 01:04:26.400 --> 01:04:29.840 just said, hey, I need them identified, because they're reasonably playing playing 832 01:04:29.920 --> 01:04:35.239 aluminum buttons. And two or three people came back and said they appeared to 833 01:04:35.280 --> 01:04:43.880 be late forties early fifties military trouser buttons or fatigue buttons, And then I 834 01:04:43.920 --> 01:04:48.960 didn't think too much of that until I gave a showed the picture to State 835 01:04:49.000 --> 01:04:55.639 moufon meeting here in New Mexico, and a gentleman came up to me afterwards 836 01:04:55.639 --> 01:05:00.400 and he says, those are fatigue buttons that we used in like he said, 837 01:05:00.400 --> 01:05:02.840 the late early not late he said early early fifties. I think he 838 01:05:02.880 --> 01:05:05.920 said late forties, my late late forties, early fifties, And he says, 839 01:05:06.320 --> 01:05:10.280 those are the buttons that we wore on that we had on our fatigues. 840 01:05:10.320 --> 01:05:15.280 And I'm going, yeeha, just the kind of information that from a 841 01:05:15.440 --> 01:05:21.519 historical perspective to basically prove that the that the military was out there and they 842 01:05:21.559 --> 01:05:27.800 were actively looking for something. You know, military fatigue buttons just don't pop 843 01:05:27.840 --> 01:05:31.840 up in the middle of nowhere. Mm hmm. Wow. Yeah, some 844 01:05:31.920 --> 01:05:35.400 great works. I mean, you know, it's kind of funny because the 845 01:05:35.519 --> 01:05:41.760 roswell thing has been around for so long and people think, well, you 846 01:05:41.800 --> 01:05:44.920 know, how much more can you guys do on this? But there are 847 01:05:45.039 --> 01:05:49.159 new exciting things that keep new developments that come around the corner every so often. 848 01:05:50.079 --> 01:05:54.760 You you are absolutely greaty. You know, it's a very large area 849 01:05:55.199 --> 01:06:02.880 and there has never been some extensive archaeological work done out there. You know, 850 01:06:02.920 --> 01:06:08.480 there's been some holes, Doug. There's been some work done by the 851 01:06:08.599 --> 01:06:13.119 University of New Mexico, their Office of Contract Archeology with the Sci Fi Channel. 852 01:06:13.159 --> 01:06:15.760 But see, they only spend a few days out there. To really 853 01:06:15.880 --> 01:06:21.400 do this upright, somebody needs to sit down out there and spend the money 854 01:06:21.519 --> 01:06:28.000 and the time. And I am almost I'm dead certain that if people would 855 01:06:28.000 --> 01:06:31.079 spend the time and the effort and the money, that Roswell would be proved 856 01:06:31.159 --> 01:06:35.960 up, and we'd have more than the smoking gun, we would have a 857 01:06:36.000 --> 01:06:42.760 proof positive that there was a crash there from an alien spacecraft. And I 858 01:06:42.840 --> 01:06:45.559 know that for a fact, kind of like your theory. I mean, 859 01:06:45.639 --> 01:06:50.280 if if something really happened there, it seems it would be nearly impossible to 860 01:06:50.320 --> 01:06:56.880 clean it all up, So there must be something less. There is no 861 01:06:57.119 --> 01:07:01.239 way on this planet that any that that the military could have gotten at all 862 01:07:01.440 --> 01:07:06.559 that it was. It covered. It covered three quarters of three quarters of 863 01:07:06.559 --> 01:07:11.039 a square or half a square mile, if not more three quarters of a 864 01:07:11.079 --> 01:07:14.280 square mile, and there is no way on this planet that they could have 865 01:07:14.320 --> 01:07:17.519 picked up all the big pieces. Possibly, but You got to remember, 866 01:07:17.559 --> 01:07:23.440 there was a rainstorm that night that that crash happened, and that means that 867 01:07:23.440 --> 01:07:26.719 there's stuff that was washed into the animal burrows. There was stuff that was 868 01:07:26.760 --> 01:07:31.480 carried down all the little washes, and there was several days before anybody came 869 01:07:31.519 --> 01:07:34.639 out there, or a day or two or whatever, and that just basically 870 01:07:34.639 --> 01:07:40.159 means that the animals could have pushed the stuff around there. The military would 871 01:07:40.159 --> 01:07:44.760 have had to have scraped probably two feet of soil off of a square mile 872 01:07:44.800 --> 01:07:47.559 of land, and there's no way that they would have done that. So 873 01:07:47.719 --> 01:07:54.079 I am confident that there are still there is still there are still artifacts to 874 01:07:54.199 --> 01:07:58.519 be found in that area. It just takes a lot of persistent, a 875 01:07:58.679 --> 01:08:03.840 lot of absolute diligent hard work to find stuff, But I know it's there 876 01:08:04.719 --> 01:08:09.039 now. You also went out, and I think what you found was interesting 877 01:08:09.320 --> 01:08:14.039 and I had some questions around this too. You went out to the San 878 01:08:14.119 --> 01:08:20.039 Augustine site, which is possibly a second crashed crash site. People, Yes, 879 01:08:20.279 --> 01:08:26.560 I did. I was. I was invited out to that site to 880 01:08:27.239 --> 01:08:31.880 basically because of my being able to use a metal detector very well, I 881 01:08:31.920 --> 01:08:36.560 was invited along in the hopes that maybe some material could be found out there 882 01:08:36.560 --> 01:08:44.600 that was related to some previous private archaeological work that was done at that particular 883 01:08:44.680 --> 01:08:48.600 crash site. When I got out there, I was I was kind of 884 01:08:48.640 --> 01:08:59.279 disheartened a little bit because the area is literally the town dump for the small 885 01:08:59.359 --> 01:09:02.319 town of Horse Springs. I mean literally it is the town dump. It 886 01:09:02.359 --> 01:09:09.399 is Is it anattown dump or kind of an unofficial town dump. No, 887 01:09:09.760 --> 01:09:13.399 it is it. Well, let's put it this way. It's it's the 888 01:09:13.560 --> 01:09:16.880 old town dump, probably currently not being used, but it is definitely the 889 01:09:16.960 --> 01:09:23.600 old town dump. There. There is industrial trash out there, pieces of 890 01:09:23.720 --> 01:09:30.319 tractors of the sheet aluminum that's laying all over the place. There's a styrofoam 891 01:09:30.359 --> 01:09:39.239 from buildings. There's old refrigerators. There's probably many thousands of beer cans laying 892 01:09:39.279 --> 01:09:43.680 around there, including the ones with the iron sides with the aluminum talks tops, 893 01:09:43.720 --> 01:09:46.960 which are pretty old. I've never I mean, it's incredible the amount 894 01:09:46.960 --> 01:09:50.640 of trash. And then I had them show me where the original archaeological dig 895 01:09:50.800 --> 01:09:56.159 was where they had dug up this this stuff that they that they are claiming 896 01:09:56.199 --> 01:10:00.720 as being from a UFO, And I'm going, well, this is only 897 01:10:01.640 --> 01:10:06.439 five or ten feet from where there was massive amounts of trash. The trash 898 01:10:06.479 --> 01:10:11.439 is scattered everywhere. There's there's probably a quarter of a square a mile or 899 01:10:11.439 --> 01:10:17.199 maybe more of trash laying all over the place. And the science but there 900 01:10:17.600 --> 01:10:23.159 is no science behind it. It's basically people that get very excited every I 901 01:10:23.239 --> 01:10:27.880 picked up some pieces of aluminum pie plate and I walked over and I showed 902 01:10:27.920 --> 01:10:30.840 it to the team leaders that were out there, and I says, here's 903 01:10:30.840 --> 01:10:32.800 some aluminum and they said, oh my god, Frank, this is a 904 01:10:32.840 --> 01:10:36.039 piece of the UFO. This is the same stuff that we dug up years 905 01:10:36.039 --> 01:10:40.920 ago. And I didn't say anything to them because I didn't want to really 906 01:10:40.960 --> 01:10:43.840 spoil their fun. I should have. I just basically said, in my 907 01:10:43.920 --> 01:10:45.479 mind, I'm going, guys, this is a piece of a chicken pot 908 01:10:45.520 --> 01:10:50.560 pie. And it was really kind of said. There was they found a 909 01:10:50.600 --> 01:10:55.960 piece of radiator core up on top of the hill and they said, my 910 01:10:56.039 --> 01:10:58.479 god, this is a piece of a UFO. And I'm going, oh 911 01:10:58.520 --> 01:11:01.319 gosh, guys, this is a radiator core. I mean, I do 912 01:11:01.399 --> 01:11:04.199 my own car work. I know what a radiator corps looks like. But 913 01:11:04.319 --> 01:11:09.079 yet they were still claiming that it's a UFO. I mean, everything that 914 01:11:09.119 --> 01:11:11.880 they picked up out there, they were claiming was a UFO, and it's 915 01:11:11.920 --> 01:11:15.920 not true. It's most of it is just most of it, meaning that 916 01:11:15.119 --> 01:11:19.079 I think it's dump material, is what it is. Yeah, well, 917 01:11:19.119 --> 01:11:23.960 if they found that side interesting, if they came to, you know, 918 01:11:24.800 --> 01:11:30.479 the Phoenix trash dump, they'd probably be in hog Heaven. They probably would 919 01:11:30.520 --> 01:11:34.640 because there was probably multiple UFOs that crashed there. Yeah well, and yeah, 920 01:11:34.960 --> 01:11:40.000 it would seem to be impossible to talk about finding a needle in a 921 01:11:40.079 --> 01:11:45.000 haystack. Holy moly. Yeah, I mean, and it would be it 922 01:11:45.039 --> 01:11:49.399 would be it. They could analyze that stuff from now until you would have 923 01:11:49.479 --> 01:11:55.640 to come up with millions and millions of dollars. If something crashed out there, 924 01:11:55.840 --> 01:11:59.640 which it very well, maybe it's going to be like looking for a 925 01:11:59.680 --> 01:12:02.199 needle in a haystack. It's not like the Roswell or not like the Corona 926 01:12:02.279 --> 01:12:06.039 debris field. That place is pristine. There's nothing out there. This area 927 01:12:06.159 --> 01:12:11.279 is within sight of the little town of Horse Springs. You can actually see 928 01:12:11.319 --> 01:12:15.119 the buildings of Horse Springs. And that was one of the things that I 929 01:12:15.159 --> 01:12:19.560 had questioned, is if something did crash there in the nineteen forties, that 930 01:12:19.800 --> 01:12:25.000 little town was probably still there and the people would have seen it. Now, 931 01:12:25.039 --> 01:12:30.279 this is extremely highly speculative, this next suggestion, But just to ask 932 01:12:30.319 --> 01:12:36.880 you, I mean, did that dump seem older than the crash? So 933 01:12:38.079 --> 01:12:42.920 is there any possibility that that that dump was put there after the crash to 934 01:12:42.960 --> 01:12:45.640 cover something up? You know? And that's actually a very good question. 935 01:12:46.039 --> 01:12:53.880 I found a bottle there from the nineteen forties which I brought back. It 936 01:12:53.920 --> 01:12:58.760 was an old blueing bottle from the Maybe, yeah, you know, there's 937 01:12:58.800 --> 01:13:01.640 a possibility to dump may have been there. There's from the looks of it, 938 01:13:01.640 --> 01:13:05.039 it's in the bottom of a wash. The dump may have washed all 939 01:13:05.159 --> 01:13:11.439 that most of that material may have washed down from closer to the city itself. 940 01:13:11.640 --> 01:13:15.760 And the people that I was out there with even mentioned that there was 941 01:13:15.199 --> 01:13:20.239 that the military team out there and actually bulldoze the town dump to help cover 942 01:13:20.399 --> 01:13:26.600 up the area, according to Stanton Friedman. Stanton Friedman said that when he 943 01:13:26.840 --> 01:13:31.159 was out there, there was no town dump. Mm hmm. So there 944 01:13:31.239 --> 01:13:36.199 is a distinct possibility that maybe they didn't want somebody to find anything and they 945 01:13:36.279 --> 01:13:41.039 really did push the material down there. I don't know, Yeah, be 946 01:13:41.079 --> 01:13:44.279 a perfect way to do it, That's for sure. It would be a 947 01:13:45.119 --> 01:13:48.439 you know, what better place to hide something than underneath the noses of the 948 01:13:48.479 --> 01:13:53.800 people. And you say that this is something that people do where at least 949 01:13:54.079 --> 01:14:00.399 sometimes the contaminator site, people will drop needles all over the place. Well, 950 01:14:01.039 --> 01:14:05.560 nails. Yeah. One of the frustrating things I ran across was that 951 01:14:05.640 --> 01:14:12.560 there's a particular area at the at the Corona debris field, the old Brazzle 952 01:14:12.920 --> 01:14:17.840 Brazzle debris field, there's one particular area that is not too far from where 953 01:14:17.880 --> 01:14:23.680 they did the Sci Fi Channel dig. There's a there's a hillside and the 954 01:14:23.920 --> 01:14:30.720 entire hillside uh is scattered with nails. And the nails are the nails are 955 01:14:30.760 --> 01:14:36.079 not tremendously old, but they're they're old enough to be rusty. And I'm 956 01:14:36.079 --> 01:14:41.359 being a being a nugget hunter going out looking for gold nuggets. That's actually 957 01:14:41.439 --> 01:14:44.159 one of the oldest tricks in the book. If you don't want somebody to 958 01:14:44.199 --> 01:14:49.039 find something, what you do is you take up a couple of pounds and 959 01:14:49.119 --> 01:14:53.079 nails and you throw it all over the ground and scattered, and then nobody 960 01:14:53.159 --> 01:14:57.159 it will mess up the metal detectors and you can forget about finding anything to 961 01:14:57.279 --> 01:15:02.159 be digging up nails from now to doomsday, right, so that does happen. 962 01:15:02.960 --> 01:15:06.239 I just think it's kind of weird that the nails were kind of scattered 963 01:15:06.359 --> 01:15:13.600 around the hill in various places, and it just so happens that the nail 964 01:15:13.880 --> 01:15:19.039 the hill was in the perfect location to basically absorb some of the material from 965 01:15:19.039 --> 01:15:28.000 a crashed UFO. Absolutely interesting. So have you shown your findings that did 966 01:15:28.039 --> 01:15:31.600 the isotopic work to some of your colleagues or some other people in the field 967 01:15:31.600 --> 01:15:40.319 of geology and gotten some responses. I actually haven't showed any to other than 968 01:15:40.359 --> 01:15:45.560 people that were not scientists. I have showed it to a few people. 969 01:15:46.119 --> 01:15:49.159 They haven't seen the isotope work that because I just had it done. Most 970 01:15:49.159 --> 01:15:55.640 of them were gone during the summer, so it was just done actually almost 971 01:15:55.680 --> 01:16:01.920 before school was out here. I send the isotope work off to a really 972 01:16:02.239 --> 01:16:10.439 good research scientist that has done work on trace evidence. The lady is I 973 01:16:10.439 --> 01:16:14.840 would have to put her tops in her field, and she calls it the 974 01:16:14.840 --> 01:16:16.520 way she sees it. If she thinks something is a hoax, she says 975 01:16:16.560 --> 01:16:20.000 it's a hoax. And I sent her the data and she came back with 976 01:16:20.039 --> 01:16:25.800 the same thing. She said, it's either analytical error or the stuff is 977 01:16:25.840 --> 01:16:30.119 off world. And then she sent it to an associate of hers at a 978 01:16:30.319 --> 01:16:35.399 university, a scientist. We'll mention his name or hers, but he also 979 01:16:35.479 --> 01:16:39.359 came back, and I've got all these emails. I keep track of everything. 980 01:16:39.560 --> 01:16:43.079 He also came back and said, this is clearly off the chart and 981 01:16:43.159 --> 01:16:45.960 we need to do some more work on this. And that's exactly what those 982 01:16:45.000 --> 01:16:50.159 people had said. So there have been some scientists that know what this stuff 983 01:16:50.199 --> 01:16:54.880 looks like. They've looked at it, and they basically came to the same 984 01:16:54.880 --> 01:17:00.359 conclusion that I did. It is either analytical error or the material is from 985 01:17:00.359 --> 01:17:03.239 Earth. Wow, that's pretty exciting. And have you shared this? I 986 01:17:03.239 --> 01:17:08.000 mean, have you done any other UFO radio shows or anything. No, 987 01:17:08.119 --> 01:17:12.079 this is actually my first one. The only other thing that I've done is 988 01:17:12.159 --> 01:17:15.000 I gave a I gave a talk on this, of course, at the 989 01:17:15.439 --> 01:17:19.960 panel, a little short talk during the Roswell panel with Don Schmid, Tom 990 01:17:20.079 --> 01:17:26.199 Kerry, Stanton Friedman, and Kevin Randall, all of those researchers. I 991 01:17:26.319 --> 01:17:29.880 freely share this the data that I have with them. I'll share it with 992 01:17:29.920 --> 01:17:33.279 anybody that wants to see it. It's it's not a secret now anymore. 993 01:17:33.279 --> 01:17:38.600 We kept it a secret for a while. The UFO Museum knows about it. 994 01:17:38.680 --> 01:17:43.640 Those folks have seen it. I've sent believe it or not. I 995 01:17:43.680 --> 01:17:51.439 have sent the data off to practically every single UFO investigator in group in the 996 01:17:51.640 --> 01:17:55.920 entire world. I don't think i've touched on Europe yet. They'll probably be 997 01:17:56.000 --> 01:17:58.039 mad at me, but if they want it, I'll send it to them 998 01:17:58.079 --> 01:18:01.439 as well. Anybody that wants to see it, pictures, data, whatever 999 01:18:01.439 --> 01:18:04.199 they want to see, I'll send it to them. Oh great, yeah, 1000 01:18:04.359 --> 01:18:08.840 so this is really now. Do you have this stuff that looks like 1001 01:18:08.880 --> 01:18:13.000 you have a site atomic rocks dot com. No, I don't have enough 1002 01:18:13.039 --> 01:18:16.479 on that site. Matter of fact, all of this happened relatively fast that 1003 01:18:17.479 --> 01:18:24.560 it was within the probably the last two weeks. I bet that in talks 1004 01:18:24.600 --> 01:18:27.880 with the museum that they kind of decided to kind of let it, maybe 1005 01:18:28.760 --> 01:18:30.960 let it go a little bit and see if we can get some people to 1006 01:18:31.000 --> 01:18:35.800 take a look at the material and such. What I will do is I 1007 01:18:38.079 --> 01:18:42.039 will put the information up on the Internet so that people can see it along 1008 01:18:42.079 --> 01:18:45.159 with the pictures or if you want me to send you the pictures. I 1009 01:18:45.159 --> 01:18:46.000 will send you the pictures. You can put them up whatever you want. 1010 01:18:46.039 --> 01:18:48.199 Yeah, I think you've sent me. You gave me the pictures, so 1011 01:18:48.279 --> 01:18:50.560 I think I have them, and what I'll do is I'll put them up 1012 01:18:50.560 --> 01:18:55.359 on the site. So if you want the data, I will be more 1013 01:18:55.399 --> 01:18:58.359 than delighted to send you the data as well. Okay, that would be 1014 01:18:58.399 --> 01:19:00.439 great. I think I have some of the data. Ye, but I 1015 01:19:00.479 --> 01:19:03.600 don't have the isotope graph. I have a picture of it that you showed 1016 01:19:03.600 --> 01:19:09.039 me. Well, I will send you the isotope graph and you can do 1017 01:19:09.079 --> 01:19:13.840 that, and then then I would like to put together a nice little scientifically 1018 01:19:13.960 --> 01:19:17.960 oriented site website so that people can grab this and look at it and then 1019 01:19:18.000 --> 01:19:21.520 give their opinions on it, which would be you know, I've had people 1020 01:19:21.520 --> 01:19:25.760 want to look at it, they want to see what this material looks like. 1021 01:19:25.880 --> 01:19:30.039 And I've had some kind of mixed reviews about it, well not mixed 1022 01:19:30.039 --> 01:19:34.399 reviews that the idea was, well I can look at this, but you'll 1023 01:19:34.439 --> 01:19:38.399 have to send me some pieces of it. Well, that's not going to 1024 01:19:38.479 --> 01:19:43.359 happen. It goes where I go, or vice versa. Wherever it goes 1025 01:19:43.399 --> 01:19:45.479 I go. So I can see the work that's done, and I'd rather 1026 01:19:45.520 --> 01:19:48.359 have a certified lab look at the stuff as opposed to an individual certified lab 1027 01:19:48.439 --> 01:19:53.399 or a university. Well, and a lot of people, especially researchers, 1028 01:19:53.439 --> 01:19:57.760 are a little centical and you know, gun shy because you know, oh 1029 01:19:57.840 --> 01:20:00.720 yeah, it's been so long people have searched. Then they've come across things 1030 01:20:01.039 --> 01:20:04.399 that might be interesting, they turn out to be nothing. So I think 1031 01:20:05.399 --> 01:20:09.920 everybody always, you know, it gets to be a little careful. They 1032 01:20:09.960 --> 01:20:15.520 do, they do, and being careful is just fine. But yeah, 1033 01:20:15.600 --> 01:20:18.359 and that's what I want to do, is follow I want to follow the 1034 01:20:18.399 --> 01:20:23.720 path of good science on this. Yeh. And right now the science is 1035 01:20:23.760 --> 01:20:28.279 good, but we just need more data to back up what we already have. 1036 01:20:29.600 --> 01:20:33.880 Right. So, have you gotten people warning you to be careful that 1037 01:20:33.880 --> 01:20:38.840 that the men in black are going to come get you? Holy smokes? 1038 01:20:39.039 --> 01:20:43.119 You know, when I first started on this, I never heard so much. 1039 01:20:43.279 --> 01:20:46.359 I've I had. I have met some of the smartest people that I've 1040 01:20:46.439 --> 01:20:49.239 run across, and I've met some that are kind of out there, and 1041 01:20:50.000 --> 01:20:55.720 I guess we could call them special people. They're really special. I've heard 1042 01:20:55.760 --> 01:21:00.560 things like people are going to try to kill you. I've heard people say 1043 01:21:00.640 --> 01:21:03.399 that I hope all of your stuff is under lock and key, because they're 1044 01:21:03.439 --> 01:21:08.920 going to break into your house and they're going to Uh. I heard all 1045 01:21:09.000 --> 01:21:11.199 kinds of things. When I went over to Austin, Texas, I was 1046 01:21:11.239 --> 01:21:15.119 so paranoid about Bigelow that actually slept with a gun under my pillow the knights 1047 01:21:15.159 --> 01:21:18.880 in the hotel room. Have you had heard some horror stories at bigelows with 1048 01:21:18.920 --> 01:21:23.279 the government or something like that. Oh, yes, I've heard lots of 1049 01:21:23.319 --> 01:21:27.399 stories. I've heard that, you know, the government's going to tag and 1050 01:21:27.479 --> 01:21:30.720 bag your house and they're gonna they're gonna follow you, and they're going to 1051 01:21:30.800 --> 01:21:32.720 steal things, and they're going to do this and do that. I heard 1052 01:21:32.800 --> 01:21:39.640 and including mostly the Bigelow side of this was the one that was the scariest. 1053 01:21:40.840 --> 01:21:43.520 You know, those people work for this group and that group, and 1054 01:21:43.560 --> 01:21:48.000 they all have these government affiliations, and it was kind of uh I believe 1055 01:21:48.000 --> 01:21:50.600 it or not, it's actually kind of scary in a way because people you 1056 01:21:50.640 --> 01:21:55.640 don't know whether to believe the stories or or whether to just kind of blow 1057 01:21:55.680 --> 01:22:00.880 it off. Mm hmm. And has anybody who asked you, absolutely not. 1058 01:22:00.439 --> 01:22:05.159 Yeah, none whatsoever. Well, now, a very strange incident happened 1059 01:22:05.960 --> 01:22:11.119 in my house, and I'm just going to chalk it up to the kids 1060 01:22:11.199 --> 01:22:15.600 playing next door. There was a laser target shot through the back window of 1061 01:22:15.600 --> 01:22:20.720 the house. And this was like last week. And then of all things, 1062 01:22:20.800 --> 01:22:24.479 a friend of mine called me up on the phone and said that a 1063 01:22:24.520 --> 01:22:28.439 good friend of mine that lives up in Albuquerque said that he had been targeted 1064 01:22:28.479 --> 01:22:30.760 with a laser two. But see, I think mine was the next door 1065 01:22:30.840 --> 01:22:33.560 kids. And then he later called me back and said that, well, 1066 01:22:33.600 --> 01:22:40.079 there's a movie set a block away and they were doing some some swat team 1067 01:22:40.159 --> 01:22:43.720 stuff and he says, I think that's where that laser targeting thing came from. 1068 01:22:43.760 --> 01:22:47.920 So you get paranoid when you hear the stories, yeah, I'll bet 1069 01:22:48.880 --> 01:22:54.039 I know. But other than that, I haven't had any instances of anybody, 1070 01:22:54.439 --> 01:22:58.319 no threats, no, nothing other than the ones where people were just 1071 01:22:58.319 --> 01:23:01.000 saying you need to be careful and that's all. Yeah. Trust no one, 1072 01:23:01.159 --> 01:23:03.680 don't don't even trust me. That was a person that were talking to. 1073 01:23:03.840 --> 01:23:09.000 But I've heard the don't trust anybody, don't uh, don't do this, 1074 01:23:09.239 --> 01:23:12.159 don't do that, and and uh, those are the kinds of things 1075 01:23:12.159 --> 01:23:15.680 that you hear. But you know what, I have had absolutely nothing happened 1076 01:23:15.680 --> 01:23:19.640 whatsoever, nothing good, I think, Benny, Yeah, I don't. 1077 01:23:20.520 --> 01:23:26.279 You know, stories of people actually having problems are very far and few between, 1078 01:23:26.319 --> 01:23:32.119 but of course extremely extremely But of course there's lots of suspicions and uh, 1079 01:23:32.520 --> 01:23:36.920 you know you see on a lot of movies and ex files. Do 1080 01:23:36.960 --> 01:23:43.079 you feel like, uh fuck smolder at all? You know in a lot? 1081 01:23:43.600 --> 01:23:46.680 Actually, this is I've kind of pondered this. I love doing the 1082 01:23:46.720 --> 01:23:54.159 research thing, and uh, it's it's with all the with all the problems 1083 01:23:54.159 --> 01:23:57.960 that I've run across from I mean problems people kind of ignoring me or not. 1084 01:23:58.800 --> 01:24:00.359 Yeah, I would have to say, yeah, kind of kind of 1085 01:24:00.399 --> 01:24:05.000 feel like that probably the best way to describe it. You you, you 1086 01:24:05.039 --> 01:24:09.680 know, you've seen things, You've you work on things, You've got information 1087 01:24:09.800 --> 01:24:13.159 in your hand, and then it's hard to get people to pay attention to 1088 01:24:13.199 --> 01:24:16.479 you because they think you're off in some squarely la la land somewhere right, 1089 01:24:17.000 --> 01:24:25.760 especially considering the possible implications. I mean, should things pan out, and 1090 01:24:25.880 --> 01:24:30.399 I have thought about that and I don't even know what what I mean other 1091 01:24:30.479 --> 01:24:36.119 than and I'll mention this because the researchers at EarthTech over in Austin, Texas 1092 01:24:36.159 --> 01:24:40.800 when they said, if this really does come out to be something, what 1093 01:24:40.840 --> 01:24:44.479 are we going to do except maybe stand there and just be in awe, 1094 01:24:45.319 --> 01:24:48.399 which is what I would do. But as far as the ramifications as to 1095 01:24:48.439 --> 01:24:51.520 what it might do to the rest of the world if it does pan out, 1096 01:24:53.119 --> 01:24:59.079 you know what, I really do think that it's high time that the 1097 01:24:59.119 --> 01:25:01.920 government comes forward and basically says, hey, you know, it might it 1098 01:25:02.000 --> 01:25:06.840 might help society as opposed to hurt it they That's just my eye, that's 1099 01:25:06.840 --> 01:25:10.680 my take on it. Yeah, well, my guest would be I think 1100 01:25:10.720 --> 01:25:14.119 the best thing would to do is to do as big a pr campaign as 1101 01:25:14.119 --> 01:25:17.039 you can if if it all comes back, and we'd be more than happy 1102 01:25:17.079 --> 01:25:21.640 to help, and we'll But I think if the media really get it, 1103 01:25:21.760 --> 01:25:30.479 then perhaps and the media really boasted, then perhaps that they will feel obliged 1104 01:25:30.520 --> 01:25:34.399 to give some sort of answer. Otherwise they're really good at just ignoring people. 1105 01:25:35.279 --> 01:25:39.880 And that's very true. Like I said, I've sent this information off 1106 01:25:39.920 --> 01:25:42.640 to a lot of groups, a lot of people. Most of the time 1107 01:25:42.680 --> 01:25:45.560 it gets I'd have to say that a vat ninety percent of the time, 1108 01:25:45.640 --> 01:25:49.840 it gets ignored. You know. I even tried to and not recently, 1109 01:25:49.880 --> 01:25:55.279 I tried to get some of the open minds has than the best so far. 1110 01:25:55.359 --> 01:25:58.359 I mean, I've seen the write up that you folks have did on 1111 01:25:58.439 --> 01:26:01.960 this is really very nice. It's gone out to some of the some of 1112 01:26:02.000 --> 01:26:06.319 the news feeds, and it's all done in good taste. There's nothing distorted. 1113 01:26:06.439 --> 01:26:11.600 It looks great, and that's the kind of that's the kind of reporting 1114 01:26:11.640 --> 01:26:14.720 that I would like to see. Yeah, well, it gets me excited 1115 01:26:14.720 --> 01:26:16.640 because I know, you know, in this field and in the science in 1116 01:26:16.720 --> 01:26:21.439 this field and the scientists I've worked with, they always talked about the importance 1117 01:26:21.479 --> 01:26:30.479 of the isotopic research and getting that done and the importance of findings on those 1118 01:26:30.560 --> 01:26:35.960 values like you've gotten so hopefully. Yeah, we'll see from here. It's 1119 01:26:36.039 --> 01:26:41.680 exciting to have something to look forward to. I'm looking forward to it, 1120 01:26:41.760 --> 01:26:45.159 that's for sure. Yeah, well, thank you very much. We are 1121 01:26:45.199 --> 01:26:47.520 pretty much out of time. Thank you so much for coming on the show 1122 01:26:47.560 --> 01:26:54.560 and explaining all this to us, and we're certainly looking forward to the further 1123 01:26:54.680 --> 01:26:58.800 results. And I got to say, you know, it's been a pleasure 1124 01:26:58.880 --> 01:27:01.560 meeting you and getting to work with you because you're a great guy on top 1125 01:27:01.600 --> 01:27:08.640 of it all. Well, and I appreciate Open Minds talking to me on 1126 01:27:08.720 --> 01:27:15.079 the on the radio show that you folks have got and I'm excited. Yeah, 1127 01:27:15.119 --> 01:27:17.119 thank you very much for talking with me. If it panned out, 1128 01:27:17.159 --> 01:27:20.600 maybe you'll be on the front cover of one of our magazine. Ah, 1129 01:27:21.359 --> 01:27:28.239 that would be good too. Well have you standing there the guy who who 1130 01:27:28.319 --> 01:27:31.319 found the smoking gun? Oh? That would you know would be kind of 1131 01:27:31.439 --> 01:27:36.239 history making. It would definitely be history making. All right, thank you 1132 01:27:36.319 --> 01:27:41.720 so much. Oh, you're welcome. Thank you. All right, it 1133 01:27:41.760 --> 01:27:45.439 was wonderful having Frank on the show. Thank you. He's a great guy. 1134 01:27:45.479 --> 01:27:49.239 And tomorrow I will post all the information he's talking about with the charts 1135 01:27:49.239 --> 01:27:54.520 and the graph. So all of you metallurgists and scientists that listen to this 1136 01:27:54.560 --> 01:27:58.159 show, there's the top scientists of the world. Listen to this show. 1137 01:27:58.199 --> 01:28:00.720 I'm sure you're going to be able to go to our website Open Mindset TV 1138 01:28:00.840 --> 01:28:04.600 tomorrow and check all of Frank's work and check that out and see all the 1139 01:28:04.640 --> 01:28:10.720 pictures and everything yourself. So very exciting. Fine, and next week is 1140 01:28:10.760 --> 01:28:16.359 a great show as well. Ted Peters, who teaches systematic theology at Pacific 1141 01:28:16.520 --> 01:28:23.920 Lutheran Theology Seminary. He put together a study about religions and how they would 1142 01:28:23.960 --> 01:28:29.000 react to disclosure if they found out aliens we are really visiting our planet and 1143 01:28:29.039 --> 01:28:32.960 would they all freak out? His findings were very, very interesting. He's 1144 01:28:33.119 --> 01:28:36.680 also a very neat guy, so this is going to be a great one, 1145 01:28:36.760 --> 01:28:41.840 so be sure to join us next week as well. It's going to 1146 01:28:41.880 --> 01:28:45.640 be a lot of fun. And as I said, check out the website 1147 01:28:45.680 --> 01:28:53.399 tomorrow for Frank's findings and to see pictures of the materials that he found on 1148 01:28:53.479 --> 01:28:58.159 some of the data that he talked about today. And if you're a technical 1149 01:28:58.199 --> 01:29:02.720 person you will just have a filled day exciting news. Hopefully it all pans 1150 01:29:02.760 --> 01:29:08.720 out, because yeah, like I said, this could be the smoking gun. 1151 01:29:09.199 --> 01:29:13.000 Thank you for joining us this week on Open Minds TV. Don't forget 1152 01:29:13.039 --> 01:29:16.199 to join us next week and be sure to check out openminds dot tv for 1153 01:29:16.239 --> 01:29:20.079 all the latest in UFO news. Talk to you later, people,