1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:03,879 Hi, everyone, this is your usual host of Federalist Radio Hour, Emily 2 00:00:03,919 --> 00:00:08,880 Dushinsky, coming here today with some bittersweet news. It's sad, actually it's 3 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:12,560 mostly sad. It's also very exciting for me. But I'm going to be 4 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:19,120 moving on June fourth from The Federalist to Unheard. And you know, it's 5 00:00:19,399 --> 00:00:24,120 a very difficult decision because I'm immensely grateful to my colleagues at the Federalist and 6 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:28,800 really to all of the Federalist Radio Hour listeners, thousands and thousands of loyal 7 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:32,640 listeners, which is completely surreal to me. So I just want to thank 8 00:00:32,679 --> 00:00:36,920 everybody, first of all, for listening over all of these years. Whether 9 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:41,399 you started with Ben, whether you started with me and kept going, it 10 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:43,960 means the world to us. I want to thank Ben. I want to 11 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:49,240 thank Molly and Sean, Molly Hemingway, Sean Davis, and Ben Dominic. 12 00:00:49,359 --> 00:00:53,320 I want to thank them for hiring me at the Federalist when I was, 13 00:00:53,399 --> 00:00:56,679 you know, just twenty five, twenty six years old. I don't even 14 00:00:56,719 --> 00:01:00,719 remember at this point. They really took a chance in all allowed me to 15 00:01:00,799 --> 00:01:06,120 do something really cool here, and I'm so grateful to everyone before that opportunity 16 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:11,359 I'm so so sad about leaving, but I'm really really excited about Unheard. 17 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:15,959 I'll be on a podcast twice weekly there, so it's launching soon. You 18 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:19,719 can't get rid of me in your podcast diet if if you want to keep 19 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:25,359 listening to all of my great thoughts. I'll be over at Unheard full time 20 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:30,680 writing there. One of the big draws I'll get to write. One of 21 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,560 my favorite things to do is right frankly, and so as much as I 22 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:38,599 love doing podcasting, I was very excited for an opportunity that helps me do 23 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:42,840 both because there's so much synergy. You realize when you're doing podcasting. Oh, 24 00:01:42,879 --> 00:01:45,959 I really want to write a piece on this, but between podcasts you 25 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,959 don't always get to do it. So that's one exciting thing. And you 26 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:55,159 know, just the opportunity to talk to a new audience. I always find 27 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:59,640 that to be very exciting. Unheard published an amazing article that you may have 28 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:01,799 read. I've talked about it on here several times over the course of the 29 00:02:01,879 --> 00:02:07,719 last six months. By Ion Hersey Eli, citing Tom Holland's wonderful book Dominion. 30 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,120 Tom Holland was on the show not too long ago. It was last 31 00:02:10,199 --> 00:02:14,919 year, David HARSONI and I interviewed him about why she became a Christian, 32 00:02:15,159 --> 00:02:17,639 and you know, that's certainly one of the things that drew me over to 33 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:22,800 on hear. They're doing really fascinating work and I'm excited about that. I 34 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:28,120 am going to miss my colleagues, my family really at the Federalist immensely, 35 00:02:28,479 --> 00:02:31,800 sort of as a whole in my heart. I'll miss you Federalist fans immensely 36 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:38,280 too, but you will still be able to get more of me. Before 37 00:02:38,319 --> 00:02:42,879 I totally sign off here, I want to thank Jordan Boyd. Jordan Boyd 38 00:02:43,039 --> 00:02:46,879 is our wonderful producer of the show. She's been an incredible partner for me. 39 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:53,120 She does tireless, sometimes thankless work behind the scenes, maybe even more 40 00:02:53,159 --> 00:02:58,280 than I know behind the scenes, doing incredible job getting this show ready for 41 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,759 everyone. And the good news is that Jordan's not going anywhere, and this 42 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:07,879 podcast is going to take a really exciting new step. So if you're listening 43 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:13,280 to Federalist Radio Hour, it's in your rotation, do not touch that dial 44 00:03:13,479 --> 00:03:16,240 is about to, I think, really really level up and you'll be hearing 45 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:22,080 more from my colleagues. You'll be hearing more about what they plan to do 46 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:27,319 with the show very soon. I'll say part of the reason I wanted to 47 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:31,439 come here and talk a little bit about this decision is that I've also pre 48 00:03:31,479 --> 00:03:38,159 recorded many podcasts. That's one funny way that podcasting on a daily basis works 49 00:03:38,199 --> 00:03:43,000 is that we've had you know, certain authors, I've already recorded shows with 50 00:03:43,039 --> 00:03:46,680 them, and their books come out in mid June, so you'll hear me 51 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:52,000 doing interviews for the next couple of weeks probably. I also just am someone 52 00:03:52,039 --> 00:03:55,479 who likes to pre record podcasts again, mostly with authors, people who are 53 00:03:55,479 --> 00:04:00,919 promoting new books new podcasts of their own, and I always felt more comfortable 54 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,759 keeping a couple of them in the bank, you know, usually just about 55 00:04:04,759 --> 00:04:08,719 a week before they go up. I try to have a couple extra on 56 00:04:08,879 --> 00:04:12,879 file, so you'll be hearing again a couple more of those, usually recorded 57 00:04:12,879 --> 00:04:15,719 with some of a week before they come out, two weeks before they come 58 00:04:15,719 --> 00:04:17,439 out, so you'll still be hearing me for about a week. If you 59 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:20,680 want to hear more of me, you'll find me over at unheard and of 60 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:28,439 course breaking points. It's just been the honor of my professional career to have 61 00:04:28,639 --> 00:04:32,720 the microphone here and to join you all every single day. I can't thank 62 00:04:32,759 --> 00:04:38,600 you enough. I can't thank the Federalist enough. I'm really, really grateful 63 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:43,000 and I always will be. Thanks so much for listening to Federalist Radio Hour. 64 00:05:00,439 --> 00:05:02,920 We're back with another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily Shinsky, 65 00:05:02,959 --> 00:05:05,680 culture editor here at the Federalist. As always, you can email the 66 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:10,759 show at radio at the Federalist dot com, follow us on exit FDR LST, 67 00:05:10,959 --> 00:05:13,839 make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcasts, and of course to 68 00:05:13,879 --> 00:05:16,680 the premium version of our website, The Federalist dot Com as well. I 69 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:23,800 couldn't possibly be more excited or really more proud to host our guests today on 70 00:05:23,879 --> 00:05:27,319 Federalist Radio Hour. That would be the one and only Mary Margaret Olahan, 71 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,199 who I'm so excited again, is out with her new book, her first 72 00:05:30,199 --> 00:05:36,399 book. It's called dtrans True Stories of Escaping the Gender Ideology Cult. Mary 73 00:05:36,439 --> 00:05:40,720 Margaret, welcome back to the show. Thanks so much for having me and 74 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,839 for such a nice introduction. Oh my gosh, it could have been much 75 00:05:43,959 --> 00:05:46,480 nicer. In fact, I'll continue to shower you with praise. I think 76 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,560 the idea for the book was super smart and Mary Margaret. As I'm reading 77 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:55,160 on the Amazon page right now, it has a little banner that says number 78 00:05:55,160 --> 00:06:02,839 one bestseller in LGBTQ plus Demographic Studies. Thank you, congratulations, just in 79 00:06:02,959 --> 00:06:09,920 time for bride month. And you know, we're laughing now because it's very 80 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:15,920 amusing that a book as subversive as this is the top seller on Amazon in 81 00:06:15,959 --> 00:06:23,759 the LGBTQ plus Demographic Studies section of books. Because obviously Amazon, Ryan Anderson 82 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:27,120 had problems with Amazon. Abbil Schreier I think had problems with Target, maybe 83 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,759 with Amazon as well, but Amazon hasn't handled this topic in a way that's 84 00:06:30,759 --> 00:06:34,560 been good for women, good for girls. But I just want to start 85 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:38,959 by asking you. You know, it's such an obvious question, but I 86 00:06:38,959 --> 00:06:43,759 think the topic of this book is brilliant. It's simple, but it's brilliant. 87 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,759 So if you could talk to us a little bit about how you came 88 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:50,079 up with the idea for this book, that would be awesome. Yes, 89 00:06:50,199 --> 00:06:54,600 of course, So I am a reporter and I spend a lot of my 90 00:06:54,680 --> 00:07:00,439 time telling stories, and I try and be an unbiased reporter in my writing 91 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,199 and in my copy So you know, I have a lot of opinions. 92 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:08,279 But you wouldn't necessarily see those in my news stories. You might be able 93 00:07:08,319 --> 00:07:12,879 to tell by the headlines I choose, or the photos, or you know, 94 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:16,439 the topics, but generally speaking, my copy is straight. I'm telling 95 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:23,800 you what's going on and the facts and including I like to think both sides 96 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:26,800 of the argument. So that's what I do on my day to day. 97 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:32,600 And when it came to this topic, I was reporting on transgender issues since 98 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:38,079 about twenty nineteen, and when I used to work for The Daily Caller, 99 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:42,720 one of my editors, who was amazing, Jeff Ingersoll, assigned me a 100 00:07:42,759 --> 00:07:46,519 piece on gender affirming care. And it was a topic that we had heard 101 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,439 about, but we, you know, we didn't really know what it meant. 102 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:54,920 It was a very generalized euphemism. We were certain of that, but 103 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:59,959 it kind of sounded like the media was using it to describe maybe a social 104 00:08:00,199 --> 00:08:07,199 affirmation, so parents or school teachers affirming kids by calling them different names or 105 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:11,240 different pronouns. That was kind of what we thought it was at the time. 106 00:08:11,759 --> 00:08:15,199 And so Jeff has signed me this story on gender firming care, and 107 00:08:15,279 --> 00:08:18,000 I did a deep dive on what it meant and what it entailed and who 108 00:08:18,079 --> 00:08:22,560 was pushing it, And when I was digging into that story, I realized 109 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:30,199 that gender firming care is a euphemism pushed by activist out activist groups like the 110 00:08:30,199 --> 00:08:37,039 ACLU, the HRC, and GLAD to hide the realities of transgender surgeries, 111 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:41,799 hormones, and puberty blockers, even for kids. And that story was definitely 112 00:08:41,879 --> 00:08:48,720 very foundational for me because I realized and kind of had my eyes opened to 113 00:08:48,919 --> 00:08:56,759 how aggressively the mainstream media was working with these out these organizations to subvert the 114 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:01,360 truth about this trans issue. And so obviously I had already been interested in 115 00:09:01,399 --> 00:09:05,080 the topic, but that really piqued my interest that specific story, and I 116 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:09,679 started paying a lot more attention to what I was seeing. And around that 117 00:09:09,799 --> 00:09:16,600 time, we were seeing more and more voices come forward speaking up against childhood 118 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:22,559 gender transitions or attempted transition, since we know that they can't actually fully transition 119 00:09:22,639 --> 00:09:26,200 to another gender. And I was seeing people popping up here and there. 120 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,639 I saw one or two people putting their names out there. A lot of 121 00:09:31,639 --> 00:09:35,879 people were talking about this anonymously because they received so much hate for it. 122 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:41,759 And there was one night where I tuned into a Twitter spaces event and it 123 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:48,720 was all these people speaking anonymously in large part about their hormonal transitions. And 124 00:09:48,759 --> 00:09:52,080 so I was making myself dinner while I was listening to this Twitter spaces event, 125 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:54,519 and I ended up not really being able to eat because I was so 126 00:09:54,679 --> 00:10:01,000 bothered. It was all these individuals sharing how t stosterone or estrogen affected their 127 00:10:01,039 --> 00:10:05,720 bodies and their mental state, and I was blown away. Emily, I 128 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:09,279 could not believe it. I felt like I was listening to some kind of 129 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:16,440 sci fi horror movie. These people are sharing how they lost sexual function, 130 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:22,360 how they're infertile, how the hormones affected their muscles, how it affected their 131 00:10:22,399 --> 00:10:26,919 bone density, and then mentally, the rage that they experienced, you know, 132 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:31,320 the women on tistosterone unlike anything they had ever known before, the really 133 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:35,480 crazy increased sex drive that they had no idea what to do with, and 134 00:10:35,519 --> 00:10:39,600 the men talking about their mental distress as well. Just was very upsetting. 135 00:10:39,639 --> 00:10:43,320 And I got out of this Twitter space event and I thought, I need 136 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:48,240 to do something on this because no one is talking about it, and the 137 00:10:48,279 --> 00:10:54,080 media is actively working to frame public opinion on this. But at the time, 138 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,200 I didn't totally know how to get into it, because I, you 139 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:58,480 know, a lot of these people were anonymous. I had a lot going 140 00:10:58,519 --> 00:11:05,759 on with so I bided my time. I did some more individualized reporting on 141 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:11,080 different people like Helena Kirshner, and then when I got the opportunity to write 142 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,960 a book, I instantly knew that this is what I wanted to cover, 143 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:18,919 because I thought, what better way to deep dive on the stories of de 144 00:11:18,039 --> 00:11:24,440 transitioners and to help people understand the realities of what is going on here than 145 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:28,120 to just offer them bare bones the stories of people who tried to do this 146 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:33,320 and deeply regret it. And these are stories that are being repressed, they're 147 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:37,320 not being told, and you can't really properly explain it in a short news 148 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:39,919 hit. So that was my goal here, to just put it all on 149 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:46,159 paper and let people experience and empathize with the d transitioners. And here they 150 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:50,720 are very vulnerable and intimate stories in the format that allows them to be properly 151 00:11:50,759 --> 00:11:56,960 told. Yeah, you know, and this is a demographic that has gotten 152 00:11:56,440 --> 00:12:01,679 very little oxygen, let alone sympathy, despite the horrors of their story, 153 00:12:01,799 --> 00:12:05,360 despite the fact that they are victims of a powerful system. In many cases, 154 00:12:05,399 --> 00:12:13,200 people fail to understand how exactly powerful an industry this is, and We 155 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:15,759 can get into that a little bit, Mary Margaret, but I'm really glad 156 00:12:15,799 --> 00:12:18,879 you started where you did because one of the things I was curious about all 157 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:24,919 of those symptoms of the treatments you just mentioned. I mean, some of 158 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:30,480 this was obvious in some brave voices people that you've covered for years, were 159 00:12:30,639 --> 00:12:33,360 you know, crying out in the wilderness, saying, we don't know what's 160 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:35,159 going to happen. And by the way, these are possibilities, and of 161 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:41,159 course, sadly many of them came true. How did you go about verifying 162 00:12:41,639 --> 00:12:46,279 getting in touch with getting the trust of people who have important stories to share 163 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:50,639 but are used to having them filtered through You know, The New York Times 164 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:54,759 has taken an interest in started telling these stories lately, which is, I 165 00:12:54,759 --> 00:12:58,480 guess better than nothing. But if you're one of these detransitioners, I can't 166 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,600 imagine the bravery that it takes, the courage that it takes to allow that 167 00:13:01,639 --> 00:13:07,200 story to be filtered through corporate media in twenty twenty four. So tell us 168 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,080 a little bit about how you went about I mean, even sorry to ramble 169 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:13,720 here, but even medical details that stuff just reported report that is hard to 170 00:13:13,879 --> 00:13:18,320 verify, and you really had to do that. Yeah, and it's not 171 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:22,159 easy. I will say I've spent most of my writing career thus far trying 172 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:26,480 to convince people to talk to me, even though I am conservative media. 173 00:13:28,639 --> 00:13:31,399 There's definitely a bias out there of you know, people are more likely to 174 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:35,960 talk to the New York Times than they might be to someone who works for 175 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:41,480 the Daily Caller or the Federalist or the Daily Signal because there's a distrust of 176 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:48,279 conservative media. But what's interesting is that when it comes to de transitioners and 177 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:52,679 a lot of people who've been affected by the gender ideology movement, they're finding 178 00:13:52,759 --> 00:13:58,240 that conservative media is their greatest ally. And in my case, when I 179 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,879 would reach out to people, and I found most of the D transitioners I 180 00:14:01,919 --> 00:14:07,559 spoke with on Twitter or x, which has been a really fruitful platform for 181 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:09,799 them because they are not censored, they can talk about their stories, they 182 00:14:09,879 --> 00:14:15,960 can share and go viral. And I found a number of them on there. 183 00:14:16,919 --> 00:14:20,360 Some of them connected me with each other, and I would just reach 184 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:24,159 out to them and say, look, I'm starting to write a book on 185 00:14:24,279 --> 00:14:28,759 D transitioners. I want to include your story. I would be very transparent. 186 00:14:28,799 --> 00:14:30,799 I'd say my name is Mary, markint Olhan, I work for The 187 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:33,039 Daily Signal, and I would be reaching out from Twitter so you could look 188 00:14:33,039 --> 00:14:35,919 at my profile or you could click on my outlet. It was very you 189 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,600 know, I want to be very upfront about everything. And then when we 190 00:14:39,639 --> 00:14:43,360 got on the phone, I would say, this is the project, this 191 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:45,440 is what I want you to be a part of. Do you want to 192 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:48,279 do this, and be very clear so that no one felt like, you 193 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:56,639 know, this wasn't a very straightforward ask. And then as I do with 194 00:14:56,639 --> 00:15:00,759 all my reporting, you know, we would record the conversation and I would 195 00:15:00,879 --> 00:15:03,120 make sure that I was representing what they had told me accurately, and I 196 00:15:03,159 --> 00:15:09,320 would go over my notes, and I reach out to everyone who has mentioned 197 00:15:09,919 --> 00:15:15,519 in our interviews, and I check all of the facts that we go over. 198 00:15:16,039 --> 00:15:18,960 I cannot tell you how much time I spent reaching out to the individual 199 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:26,120 therapists and doctors and schools and organizations and verifying where these people said they are 200 00:15:26,159 --> 00:15:31,399 from and all different parts of their stories. And some of it is easier. 201 00:15:33,399 --> 00:15:37,080 It can occasionally be easier if there's a lawsuit already. That was not 202 00:15:37,159 --> 00:15:41,720 the case with any of these individuals except Chloe Cole, and that really does 203 00:15:41,799 --> 00:15:45,759 help because if there's a legal filing, you know that their lawyers already went 204 00:15:45,759 --> 00:15:48,080 through a lot of this and verified it. But again, you still have 205 00:15:48,159 --> 00:15:52,919 to do your fact checking and your homework and reaching out. And since I 206 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:58,399 wrote this book, a couple of the detransitioners have since filed lawsuits, which 207 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:00,639 I kind of wish they did it before. Was saved me a lot of 208 00:16:00,639 --> 00:16:07,159 work. But I'm very happy for them that they can that they've filed these 209 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:12,120 lawsuits and are finally going to get some justice, hopefully. But it's helpful 210 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:15,840 from the perspective of a journalist. If it's already like an an affidavit, 211 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:19,120 it really is, you know, save your stress. That speaks to the 212 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:23,840 quality of the reporting here that you actually really had to get these details yourself. 213 00:16:25,559 --> 00:16:30,519 Yeah. Yeah, And I think that also not having that lawsuit in 214 00:16:30,559 --> 00:16:36,480 front of you does require you to ask a lot of different details that you 215 00:16:36,559 --> 00:16:40,799 might not have thought of. And I really wanted this book to be something 216 00:16:40,879 --> 00:16:45,360 that allowed people a glimpse that they hadn't been seen before. So I didn't 217 00:16:45,399 --> 00:16:48,360 want to just give the basic structure of what these people had been through. 218 00:16:48,919 --> 00:16:55,200 I wanted to know what were their last thoughts before they went under for their 219 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:59,159 double mis eectomy. Did they talk to anyone right before? What was the 220 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:00,559 drive over? Like, what did they talk to their parents about? I 221 00:17:00,559 --> 00:17:04,480 wanted to get into all of that. And there's a lot of different intimate 222 00:17:04,519 --> 00:17:10,119 moments that I shared that some people might think are a little too much information 223 00:17:10,319 --> 00:17:15,039 TMI, but I think that they are really relevant and a lot of it 224 00:17:15,079 --> 00:17:18,599 made me really emotional to hear about and to talk to you know, pretty 225 00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:25,480 sia Able Luca, Helena Chloe about and they would get emotional sharing it with 226 00:17:25,559 --> 00:17:27,200 me. And I like to think of myself as kind of tough when it 227 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:30,240 comes to telling these stories. I do a lot of culture war stories and 228 00:17:30,599 --> 00:17:33,880 they can be pretty emotional. You kind of have to turn that part of 229 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:40,519 you off just for the workday. But this was This was very emotional, 230 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:47,480 and I included some details that I might not have otherwise, such as a 231 00:17:47,519 --> 00:17:53,200 police report about a young girl's suicide, because I think that it moved me 232 00:17:53,599 --> 00:17:57,160 very deeply, and I think it'll move other people very deeply to understand the 233 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:03,200 realities of what happened here. How much does it cost to live in your 234 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:07,119 state? Watchdout on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski. Every day, Chris 235 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:11,960 helps unpack the connection between politics and the economy and how it affects your While 236 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:15,079 new study show it costs a family of four over one hundred and seventy seven 237 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:21,599 thousand dollars to live comfortably, Massachusetts it's over three hundred thousand dollars. Government 238 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:25,799 continues to put their hands in one industry after another, whether it's happening in 239 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:27,880 DC or down on Wall Street, it's affecting you financially. Be informed. 240 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:32,599 Check out the Watchout on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski on Apple, Spotify, 241 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:38,319 or wherever you get your podcasts. Really, one of the biggest questions 242 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:44,920 right now about the de transitioner phenomenon is how big it is. And Mary 243 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,440 Margot, I don't expect you to have a perfect answer to that question, 244 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:52,279 and I'm sure it's one of the most common questions that you have gotten so 245 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:55,720 far and that you'll continue to get. And you know, I've had these 246 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,319 conversations with people before and some people on the other side of the argument, 247 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:04,960 and I consistently maintain that I don't think we're actually gonna know how big this 248 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:10,359 phenomenon ends up being until I mean that we could be talking in more than 249 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:17,000 a decade to fully understand the scope of what happened. Now, that's debatable, 250 00:19:17,039 --> 00:19:18,960 of course, But can you just tell us how big, what we 251 00:19:19,039 --> 00:19:22,839 know about how many people are affected, at least right now, and maybe 252 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,319 projections about what this could look like down the road. Yeah. I think 253 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:33,720 you're absolutely right in that the figures on D transition are a incomplete and b 254 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:38,720 manipulated. What you'll see from establishment media when they talk about this, and 255 00:19:38,799 --> 00:19:42,799 they have, like New York Times Washington Posts, they both recently done some 256 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:48,519 decent reporting on D transitioners. I was surprised and happy to see that. 257 00:19:48,279 --> 00:19:53,200 But what they'll say in those stories is that the D transition rate or what 258 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:59,880 they call regret rate for transitions is one percent. Well, that's not true, 259 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:06,279 and that is based on flawed studies that are and this is something we 260 00:20:06,279 --> 00:20:11,000 see all the time, flowed studies and flood polling that is misleading and questioning 261 00:20:11,079 --> 00:20:15,240 and doesn't include the proper groups. Researcher Releasa Littman has done some really great 262 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:22,680 work on this. I think it partially inspired Abigail Schreyer's book Irreversible Damage. 263 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:29,200 Litman found that only twenty four percent of the people who de transitioned actually went 264 00:20:29,319 --> 00:20:33,759 back to their doctors and told them that they had detransitioned. So that's only 265 00:20:33,759 --> 00:20:38,880 twenty four percent of a big group of people who told their doctors I regretted 266 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:45,079 this and I'm no longer living as a transgender person. And if you think 267 00:20:45,079 --> 00:20:51,759 about that, that's and Litman argues this, but that's the equivalent of going 268 00:20:51,799 --> 00:20:56,240 back to someone who abused you and saying, I wish you didn't abuse me, 269 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,920 and I'm not going to put up with it anymore. It's a very 270 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:04,039 unlikely thing for people to go back to their doctors and report detransition because those 271 00:21:04,039 --> 00:21:07,880 are the same people that transitioned you. Those are the same people that told 272 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,839 you you're going to be happier if you undergo this gender transition or if you 273 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:18,160 undergo this double misactomy. And so Latman argues that she believes there is a 274 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:22,759 much higher number of detransitioners than we currently know of, And I would argue 275 00:21:22,759 --> 00:21:26,880 the same thing as well, that there's also a big portion of people out 276 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:32,359 there that don't want to put their faces and names in front of the public 277 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,759 eye and share their stories. And I don't judge them for that at all. 278 00:21:34,839 --> 00:21:41,559 I think many of them have been through a very traumatic experience and the 279 00:21:41,559 --> 00:21:45,160 public eye is not for everyone. And if I were one of these individuals 280 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,319 who had gone through something like this, I would want to resume a normal 281 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:52,720 life and not really talk about it anymore. So, you know, I 282 00:21:52,759 --> 00:21:59,359 respect the heck out of Chloe and Luca and Abel and Prisha and Helena for 283 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:03,119 sharing their stories because it's no easy thing, and I think that they are 284 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:10,079 aware that voices like theirs are very needed, but it comes at a cost. 285 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,319 One of as I was sort of prepping for this interview, I was 286 00:22:14,319 --> 00:22:18,400 writing questions down and one of the things I was most curious about is this 287 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:26,359 maybe the notion or let's just say what you found when it comes to patterns. 288 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,279 So there are different places where I expect that you found patterns. And 289 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:33,480 I don't mean that as a leading question, but you know, are there 290 00:22:33,559 --> 00:22:38,000 patterns that stand out from all of the stories. I know they're very different, 291 00:22:38,039 --> 00:22:41,440 but one of the things that you do hear when you talk to the 292 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:47,400 parents of kids who have been intersucked into this consistently they have similar stories. 293 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,599 Shriyers written about this, for sure, but I was curious about a couple 294 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,799 of different areas. I'll start with first, were there patterns, consistencies and 295 00:22:53,960 --> 00:23:02,119 how some of these young girls ended up going to a transition in the first 296 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:06,599 place, And just will quickly preface that by saying, Mary Margaret, I'm 297 00:23:06,799 --> 00:23:08,920 sort of a younger millennial. I think you're probably a younger millennial. You 298 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,279 might just be right on the border with gen Z. Right, I'm ninety 299 00:23:12,319 --> 00:23:17,880 five, so I think I'm a millennial. Yeah, you're a younger millennial. 300 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,400 So this is something that you and I saw happening hitting our generation, 301 00:23:22,519 --> 00:23:26,240 and then gen Z has dealt with it even more squarely. But you know, 302 00:23:26,319 --> 00:23:30,000 certainly a lot of the young women you were talking to were of a 303 00:23:30,039 --> 00:23:34,519 similar age. So with that, any consistencies that you noticed and how people 304 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:41,359 ended up falling into the gender identity rabbit hole. Yeah, I think the 305 00:23:41,519 --> 00:23:45,400 biggest thing was social media. And I say that with the caveat that exactly 306 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,759 what I expected you to say, by the way here, Yeah, and 307 00:23:48,319 --> 00:23:55,319 part of it. I actually focused on specific ages for this book because I 308 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:59,839 include Walt Hayer's story. Walt is a man who tried to become a woman, 309 00:24:00,799 --> 00:24:03,440 and I believe he's in his eighties now, and his story is really 310 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:11,359 important, and he's done some really pivotal work helping people through do transition and 311 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,920 helping men understand why they feel that they're in the wrong body and what they 312 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,680 can do to come to terms with who they were created to be. And 313 00:24:18,759 --> 00:24:23,240 well, yes, yes, yes, he's done some amazing work for the 314 00:24:23,279 --> 00:24:29,039 Federalists. So I included Walt's story, but my book is primarily focused on 315 00:24:29,079 --> 00:24:33,880 the stories of people who have been much more recently impacted by this because, 316 00:24:33,799 --> 00:24:41,079 in my humble opinion, these current de transitioners have been impacted in a dramatically 317 00:24:41,079 --> 00:24:45,519 different way than people who have tried to transition in the past. Social media 318 00:24:45,839 --> 00:24:52,119 has completely changed the landscape, and phones really have changed the landscape in that 319 00:24:52,799 --> 00:24:59,519 it allows a young girl, Let's say she's fourteen, she's not doing well 320 00:24:59,559 --> 00:25:03,400 in school, she's on the autism spectrum. She's having a hard time meeting 321 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,920 people, she's having a hard time interacting. Her parents may not have a 322 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:11,400 great relationship. She is lonely and looking for companionship. She can go up 323 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,480 to her room and shut the door and be on her phone and connect with 324 00:25:15,519 --> 00:25:19,480 anyone that she wants and view any kind of content that she wants. And 325 00:25:22,519 --> 00:25:26,440 I'm using a hypothetical girl right now, but I will tell you that multiple 326 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:32,079 people in the book told me, multiple girls, that they were really disturbed 327 00:25:32,079 --> 00:25:37,759 by the representations of femininity that they were seeing on social media. And I'll 328 00:25:37,759 --> 00:25:40,000 come back to that in a second, because I think that's really important. 329 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,200 But for Helena, for example, Helen is a little bit older than the 330 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:48,720 other d transitioners in the book, maybe about like five years and Helena, 331 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:52,799 she is quite the philosopher, and I drew from a lot of her sub 332 00:25:52,839 --> 00:25:57,440 stacks for this book because I interviewed her at length as well. But I 333 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:03,240 think that some of her subs as are so powerful, particularly her substack on 334 00:26:03,319 --> 00:26:07,319 pornography and transitions, and I highly recommend that people read them if you get 335 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:14,680 a chance. But Helena found a lot of gender content on Tumblr, and 336 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,319 that was a platform that she really dove into, and this was where she 337 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:26,279 was really exposed to gender ideology content, whereas Chloe Cole was really exposed to 338 00:26:26,319 --> 00:26:32,559 gender content on Instagram and some of the other girls, Luca and Prisia, 339 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,839 they were on websites. One was called click or Kick I believe, which 340 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:41,839 has a huge pedophile problem. If you literally googled the name of the website, 341 00:26:41,799 --> 00:26:47,839 all the articles are about how it has a pedophile problem, and I 342 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:52,319 was save for the more recent d transitioners. The problematic apps are Instagram, 343 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:57,960 Snapchat, and TikTok. TikTok is more of an up and coming one where 344 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:03,720 I think we're going to have some even more horrific and horrible stories coming out 345 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:08,880 of their given how the algorithms feed content, and how there are predatorial doctors 346 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:17,720 advertising their gender transition surgeries very effectively through TikTok. But Instagram come back to 347 00:27:17,759 --> 00:27:22,200 that, when these young girls are getting on social media apps like that, 348 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:29,920 I think many women understand that girls in their teens are desperately looking for female 349 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,839 role models. They want to find someone that they think is beautiful, that 350 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,759 they can imitate, that they can be like, and they're constantly looking for 351 00:27:38,039 --> 00:27:42,720 female mentorship and leadership. Well, when girls nowadays are going on social media 352 00:27:42,759 --> 00:27:48,480 apps, they're seeing these very aggressive depictions of femininity. It's a woman who's 353 00:27:48,839 --> 00:27:56,960 insanely beautiful, insanely sexual. She's probably posting scantily clad from some beautiful exotic 354 00:27:56,039 --> 00:28:03,480 vacation and getting hundreds of thousands of likes of affirmation from men, and she 355 00:28:03,519 --> 00:28:07,680 doesn't look anything like the twelve year old girl who's looking at her and thinking 356 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:11,359 this is what I'm supposed to be. She's very sexy, she's also, 357 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:15,920 you know, got amazing clothing. The little girl doesn't know that she's probably 358 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:21,519 face tuned and photoshopped her body and that she's using filters. These girls don't 359 00:28:21,559 --> 00:28:23,960 know that. What they think is wow, that's what men want, and 360 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:29,240 I don't know how to be that. And multiple girls in the book told 361 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:33,480 me they had this experience. And I also asked them all how early they 362 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:37,960 were exposed to pornography, and pretty much all of them told me they were 363 00:28:37,039 --> 00:28:41,799 exposed at a very early age to pornography. And Chloe, for example, 364 00:28:41,799 --> 00:28:45,039 told me she was exposed pretty much as soon as she got on the internet. 365 00:28:45,359 --> 00:28:52,119 And so they're seeing these very degrading and humiliating depictions of women in pornography. 366 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,240 One of the girls, Billy Eilish, said, by the way, 367 00:28:55,279 --> 00:29:03,200 this is what Billy Eilis explained her androgynous sartorial choices as a response to influencers 368 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:07,599 and pornography. Yeah, because it's terrifying to young women. They don't know 369 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:12,960 what to do with it, and especially if they're looking at really hardcore pornography, 370 00:29:14,799 --> 00:29:18,160 they're thinking that, as Prisha told me, that doesn't look fun for 371 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:22,880 the girls. It looks scary. It looks fun for the guys. And 372 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:30,079 so this warped view of sexuality and masculinity and femininity is incredibly toxic and bad 373 00:29:30,119 --> 00:29:33,279 for them. And for someone like Chloe, she's thinking, I don't know 374 00:29:33,319 --> 00:29:37,559 how to be that Instagram girl, and I don't want to be the poorn 375 00:29:37,599 --> 00:29:42,960 girl. I think I want something else, And unluckily for her, she 376 00:29:44,079 --> 00:29:48,400 was bumping into gender activists online who were telling her, Oh, it's because 377 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:52,039 you're a boy, didn't you know, And you don't have to be a 378 00:29:52,079 --> 00:29:55,799 woman if you don't want to be. And that was the same experience, 379 00:29:56,359 --> 00:30:00,559 in part for Prisha, who had been exposed to a lot of pornography. 380 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,920 She had been exposed to gender content, but she was also deeply struggling with 381 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:11,920 anorexia. And you know, that's something that many girls my age and in 382 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:15,359 my high school struggled with. I'm sure many of euro Peers also did. 383 00:30:15,359 --> 00:30:23,000 Emily, and I've heard Schreier and others compare the social contagion aspect of transitioning 384 00:30:23,039 --> 00:30:30,599 among teenage girls to the similar social contagion aspect of anorexia among teenage girls. 385 00:30:30,759 --> 00:30:36,880 And Prisha unfortunately was kind of overlapping in these things, and as she struggled 386 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:42,680 with her anorexia and multiple other mental health issues, she was online in these 387 00:30:42,799 --> 00:30:48,880 pro and communities this pro anorexia, and she said that it really overlapped with 388 00:30:49,319 --> 00:30:56,039 transgender communities because the pro anorexia community encourages you to post progress photos, which 389 00:30:56,119 --> 00:31:03,319 is really stickening because it's photos of you becoming aggressively skinnier and skinnier and in 390 00:31:03,359 --> 00:31:08,759 effect starving yourself to death. They're also nudes, so it's taking advantage of 391 00:31:10,039 --> 00:31:15,720 mentally ill girls who you know shouldn't be posting this stuff on the internet regardless, 392 00:31:15,759 --> 00:31:21,160 but are also posting photos showing the progress of their very extreme mental illness. 393 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,079 And Pricia explained to me that a lot of this crosses over into the 394 00:31:25,119 --> 00:31:30,400 trans community because the trans community also encourages progress photos that are nude photos as 395 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:37,400 well, and so she began to kind of bleed into both communities. And 396 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:41,880 she had been a victim of a rape which had really traumatized her and made 397 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:48,319 her reject her female body. She had also become pregnant as a result of 398 00:31:48,359 --> 00:31:52,839 that rape and miscarried the baby as a result of her anorexia, which is 399 00:31:52,920 --> 00:32:00,920 incredibly tragic and was so monumentally upsetting for Prishia. And at this point she 400 00:32:00,119 --> 00:32:04,880 just wanted to get rid of her body. She felt like she had failed 401 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,039 as a woman, and she didn't want anything to do with it. And 402 00:32:07,119 --> 00:32:10,960 so when she's being told by these transgender activists, oh, that's because you 403 00:32:12,039 --> 00:32:15,759 never really were a woman, she was only too ready to believe them. 404 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:22,200 So that was kind of a roundabout way of answering your question. But you 405 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:27,440 know, social media absolutely was enabling all of these things. And I think 406 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:37,000 the combination, too, of access to really aggressively pornographic content is only furthering 407 00:32:37,599 --> 00:32:43,519 the struggles that our young people today are having with understanding what real masculinity or 408 00:32:43,519 --> 00:32:47,799 real femininity is and whether they live up to the images that they're seeing online. 409 00:32:49,559 --> 00:32:55,920 I think even really good parents wildly underestimate the sort of vastness of the 410 00:32:55,920 --> 00:33:01,279 internet, how quickly it forces people to mature. And I think this is 411 00:33:01,319 --> 00:33:05,119 true even of parents today. It was certainly true of parents when I was 412 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,200 in high school, because you know, the iPhone came out when I was 413 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:14,039 almost graduated from high school, but even then, you know the blogosphere and 414 00:33:14,319 --> 00:33:19,759 Tumbler and all kinds of different places Twitter. You know, if your kids 415 00:33:19,799 --> 00:33:23,440 spending time online, they are finding these corners of the internet because those corners 416 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:27,200 of the Internet are coming to them via links that their friends send. Maybe 417 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,000 they have a right friend who's really into anime and their friends sends them a 418 00:33:30,039 --> 00:33:32,799 link. I bet you talk to people who had anime was a gate yep 419 00:33:32,839 --> 00:33:37,039 for them. Mary Margaret, Yeah, absolutely. And I think that there's 420 00:33:37,079 --> 00:33:45,480 other platforms that parents just like aren't totally understanding how dangerous they are, and 421 00:33:45,559 --> 00:33:50,079 it might seem very simple. But the example I'm thinking of is one my 422 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,519 brother who's in his twenties. He doesn't really send us me anymore because I 423 00:33:53,559 --> 00:33:55,839 don't even know if he's on the app anymore, but he used to send 424 00:33:55,880 --> 00:34:02,680 me all the time screenshots of Snapchat's stories feature. And if you're not familiar 425 00:34:02,799 --> 00:34:08,559 with what that is on Snapchat when you swipe left, Snapchat is just a 426 00:34:08,599 --> 00:34:13,719 photo app you send pictures to friends. And I know they had a problem 427 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,239 with a lot of people sending inappropriate pictures, but I think Theoretically, parents 428 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:21,199 might be comfortable Snapchat because they think, oh, it's just you know, 429 00:34:21,199 --> 00:34:24,119 they're sending pictures to their friends. And theoretically that could be true. But 430 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:29,320 if you swipe left, all of these little circles pop up, and those 431 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:35,440 are Snapchat stories and they're supposedly news stories. But the reality of the matter 432 00:34:35,559 --> 00:34:42,519 is each one is picked and selected and curated by activist groups. And that's 433 00:34:42,559 --> 00:34:45,039 not just a theory of mine. It literally will say it. So planned 434 00:34:45,079 --> 00:34:50,639 parenthead has one, ACLU has one, glad has one, and it'll be 435 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:58,039 about the most random and sexually aggressive topics like masturbation, polyamory, threat poles, 436 00:34:59,119 --> 00:35:02,639 abortions, all kinds of stuff, and they're geared at teenagers. So 437 00:35:02,679 --> 00:35:06,360 my brother used to see some of this and send it to me, like 438 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:12,239 absolutely horrified at what Snapchat was putting out there geared at kids. And then 439 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,280 there would be advice on how to get in touch with activists, or you 440 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:20,280 know, if you think that you're you're queer, here's here's the kind of 441 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,480 thing to say to your parents, stuff like that, and you know that's 442 00:35:23,599 --> 00:35:29,840 aimed at kids, is specifically targeting a certain demographic, and so these, 443 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,400 uh, these activist groups, So there was out there looking for it, 444 00:35:32,519 --> 00:35:36,320 right, Like, that's no. The critical thing is that even if you, 445 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,400 you know, maybe you follow Donald Trump stuff on TikTok or whatever it 446 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:45,760 is, these groups will just count that or or the social media company themselves 447 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:47,480 in determining where the algorithm takes you. They're just like, oh, this 448 00:35:47,639 --> 00:35:53,280 kid's into politics boom right exactly. And and so parents might not know that 449 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:57,599 too. You know, you might think you're being careful, but I don't 450 00:35:57,639 --> 00:36:01,840 think you can be too careful on social media apps these days. And uh, 451 00:36:02,519 --> 00:36:07,199 I think that in general the phone giving giving a young person a cell 452 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:15,760 phone, you you probably should understand that when you give your teenager uh cell 453 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:21,920 phone, you're task at least giving them also access to pornography. Even if 454 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,039 you look the foreign phone down, it's there's still going to be stuff that's 455 00:36:24,079 --> 00:36:27,920 going to pop up or links that they're going to be able to access. 456 00:36:28,119 --> 00:36:32,679 You're you're tacitly giving them access to pornography, adults access to them. Uh 457 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,679 that could be pedophiles, could be gender activists, could be uh, you 458 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,800 know, just predators. And then uh, you're also putting them at deep 459 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:45,719 risk of mental health issues. Which, uh, you know, establishment media 460 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:51,679 has done a decent job at reporting on the very, very negative effects that 461 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:55,559 Instagram and TikTok have on the mental health of young people. And actually, 462 00:36:55,559 --> 00:36:58,920 when I was writing this book, I was reading one of those stories. 463 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:04,320 It might have been a Wall Street Journal story on Facebook and Instagram's internal conversations 464 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:08,519 about how they knew that they were causing teenage girls to commit suicide because of 465 00:37:08,599 --> 00:37:15,440 all of the tragic mental health effects from their platforms. So as I'm reading 466 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:19,880 all of this, I'm thinking, there are so many young people who are 467 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:24,119 being pushed into gender transitions on social media, specifically from these apps. And 468 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:30,559 I was specifically thinking of TikTok and doctor gallaher this plastic surgeon who operates out 469 00:37:30,559 --> 00:37:37,039 of Miami and advertises the surgeries she does, like double and sectomies on her 470 00:37:37,079 --> 00:37:42,079 TikTok with really graphic photos and she's all like light and cheery about it. 471 00:37:42,079 --> 00:37:45,719 It's one of the most disturbing things I've ever seen, but she gets her 472 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:50,360 patients and makes money by advertising all of this on TikTok. So I reached 473 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,559 out to TikTok and Instagram and I said, in light of these stories that 474 00:37:53,639 --> 00:37:59,639 have just come out. Are you concerned about the fact that your platforms are 475 00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:04,599 enabled kids to be pushed towards gender transitions? And of course they didn't get 476 00:38:04,639 --> 00:38:07,079 back to me. It was something that they were particularly worried about in the 477 00:38:07,079 --> 00:38:10,480 moment. But I think that's something that's worth pursuing in the future and finding 478 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:17,679 out how many young people are being driven towards gender transitions because of TikTok and 479 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:24,400 Instagram's algorithms, and should they be held accountable or pushing kids into irreversible decisions 480 00:38:25,199 --> 00:38:29,480 that are going to mentally and physically affect them potentially for the rest of their 481 00:38:29,519 --> 00:38:32,519 lives. Well, and let's continue talking about those mental and physical issues that 482 00:38:32,559 --> 00:38:37,320 will follow them potentially for us of their lives. What patterns emerged when you 483 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:44,440 interviewed detransitioners about how these treatments affected them mentally and physically. What did, 484 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,960 if anything, did they share in common with their experiences. Yeah, so 485 00:38:49,039 --> 00:38:54,880 everyone I talked to had both mental and physical repercussions to taking to stosterone and 486 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:59,920 estrogen. And I should know here I talk to more girls than guys, 487 00:39:00,119 --> 00:39:05,239 mostly because this is an issue the dude's social contagion has been affecting more girls 488 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,280 as of late. But one of the chapters in my book, I think 489 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:13,320 is chapter eight is specifically about guys, and I really zone in zero in 490 00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:21,119 on Able Garcia, who is a detransitioner. That was I really appreciate Able. 491 00:39:21,159 --> 00:39:25,760 He was very vulnerable with me and shared so much and his experience is 492 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:31,599 really unique and sad, and I'm just very grateful for his participate participation in 493 00:39:31,639 --> 00:39:37,679 this book. But when it comes to the girls and taking testosterone, everybody 494 00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:44,039 told me that they quickly, they initially felt a burst of energy, because 495 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,480 there is a sort of honeymoon phase, as Chloe Cole I think called it, 496 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,719 where you have this sudden burst of energy and you know you were really 497 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,880 struggling before and now you have all this extra hormones in your body and you 498 00:39:55,960 --> 00:40:00,960 feel really energetic, like you can conquer the world. And then the hormones 499 00:40:01,039 --> 00:40:06,599 kind of start to set in. And what everyone told me was that they 500 00:40:06,639 --> 00:40:12,360 would feel really intense feelings of rage and it would be mood swings. But 501 00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:16,599 when the rage kind of came upon them, they would just not really know 502 00:40:16,639 --> 00:40:22,360 what to do. Helena describes how she would go out and Chop would which 503 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,280 was her father's idea just to kind of get out this pent up rage because 504 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:30,519 it was just so overwhelming for her. Same thing, with this really intense 505 00:40:30,559 --> 00:40:35,880 sexual urges. All the girls told me they did not know what to do 506 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:40,800 with that, and they were very surprised and just overwhelmed by these sexual urges 507 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:45,440 that they would feel. And then they began to notice that their skin was 508 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:50,519 feeling coarser, that their hair was also feeling coarser. They were losing hair 509 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,119 on their head or other places that they would expect hair to be and then 510 00:40:54,119 --> 00:40:58,760 they were growing hair in places that they weren't used to, like their face. 511 00:41:00,039 --> 00:41:04,679 And there was also a lot of changes in their bone density and their 512 00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:09,000 muscle growth. And so when they now that they've de transitioned, uh, 513 00:41:09,119 --> 00:41:14,559 they told me that some of their shoulders feel too heavy for their body because 514 00:41:14,599 --> 00:41:17,199 of the way their muscle or their bones changed. So I think it's Chloe 515 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:22,039 Cole told me that her shoulders feel too heavy for her body, and she 516 00:41:22,159 --> 00:41:25,679 feels all these weird aches and pains that she's not totally sure what's going on 517 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:32,320 there and how what should and shouldn't be happening, and what's dangerous and what's 518 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:39,599 not a lot of the de transitioners have lost sexual function. And Richie is 519 00:41:39,639 --> 00:41:45,719 a DE transitioner who I mentioned kind of briefly in the book who unfortunately underwent 520 00:41:46,079 --> 00:41:52,400 a genital uh A transition attempt. And I'm not going to get too graphic 521 00:41:52,440 --> 00:42:01,159 here, but he I included his explanation of what his genitals now look like 522 00:42:01,599 --> 00:42:07,360 post surgery and what he has to deal with in the aftermath of what these 523 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,480 doctors did to him, and it is one of the most crushing things I've 524 00:42:10,559 --> 00:42:19,480 ever ever heard. It's incredibly sad. And the girls undergoing double museectomies, 525 00:42:20,159 --> 00:42:23,559 Chloe Cole's scars have not fully healed yet. They still occasionally leak. She 526 00:42:23,599 --> 00:42:29,639 doesn't really know why, but that unfortunately is the case for her, And 527 00:42:31,159 --> 00:42:36,920 you know, many of them are concerned about whether they're going to be infertile. 528 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:42,239 I will say that Pricia Mosley, by some miracle, is about to 529 00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:46,840 have a baby, which is so exciting, and I think Kelsey Bolar with 530 00:42:47,079 --> 00:42:52,639 IWF has done some really great work documenting Pricia's story, and I think she's 531 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:57,360 currently working to help her document this birth as well, which is amazing. 532 00:42:59,159 --> 00:43:04,239 But Pricia will be do in June and she's had a lot of complications with 533 00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:10,840 this pregnancy, which I assume have are related to the many complications that she's 534 00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:19,480 had from the hormones and from her attempted transition. So and then the lawsuits 535 00:43:19,519 --> 00:43:24,239 really document this really well. One thing that I think the lawsuits really document 536 00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:31,000 well is they harp on how these young girls could not give informed consent to 537 00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:37,480 all of these procedures because they had no idea about all of these these effects 538 00:43:37,559 --> 00:43:43,719 and repercussions on their bodies. They weren't explained to them. Nobody told them, 539 00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,840 oh, you might have really heavy shoulders that ache and pain all the 540 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:52,880 time, regardless of whether you de transition or not. Nobody told them that 541 00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:57,800 they might not be able to have kids someday. Nobody told them that their 542 00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:02,639 breasts wouldn't grow back, which is one crazy factoid that a lot of young 543 00:44:02,679 --> 00:44:09,119 women apparently who are trying to undergo gender transitions don't understand that your breast will 544 00:44:09,159 --> 00:44:15,840 not grow back after you get a double misseectomy. And I'm rambling a little 545 00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:20,760 bit here, but in the recent release of the w the recent release of 546 00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:27,719 the w Path files showed that these doctors, the so called experts that are 547 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:35,480 cited so praised and lauded by places like The New York Times. These doctors 548 00:44:35,519 --> 00:44:40,119 were having private conversations with each other where they were admitting that they knew the 549 00:44:40,159 --> 00:44:46,159 testosterone caused tumors in one girl, that testosterone made another girl infertile. They 550 00:44:46,199 --> 00:44:50,840 were talking about how one girl was so mentally ill that didn't really seem like 551 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,000 she could actually give informed consent. So they knew all of this, but 552 00:44:54,039 --> 00:45:00,159 they're still pushing all of this publicly, the gender of forming care as if 553 00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:05,800 it's you know, well researched and validated, and you know, as a 554 00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:09,960 White House says gender firming care is critical for trans youth. That's the line 555 00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:15,480 that everyone is pushing these days. And yet these so called experts were aware 556 00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:21,480 and the people undergoing the surgeries were not so. At the end of the 557 00:45:21,559 --> 00:45:25,800 day, all of this is experimental, and that's what should be being told 558 00:45:27,119 --> 00:45:31,280 to someone like Chloe Cole when she's undergoing a hormone treatment. Someone should have 559 00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:35,280 said, just so you know, we don't actually know what this is going 560 00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:37,440 to do to you. It could render you sterile, you know, it 561 00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:43,199 could cause you serious pain, It could cause your body to be very messed 562 00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:45,280 up, and by the way. If it is, there's not going to 563 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:51,079 be any doctors to help you, because we're only interested in furthering gender transition, 564 00:45:51,559 --> 00:45:54,079 not helping people who don't want to do it anymore. And that's a 565 00:45:54,119 --> 00:45:58,559 serious problem too, where there's no doctors who are brave enough to help the 566 00:45:58,679 --> 00:46:02,719 transitioners, so they seek medical help trying to figure out what's wrong with their 567 00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:07,119 bodies. Then there's no one to help them. And that's exactly where I 568 00:46:07,119 --> 00:46:13,559 wanted to go next, which is the powerful interests who misled so many of 569 00:46:13,599 --> 00:46:16,840 these girls and boys. You mentioned the White House just now, but you 570 00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:20,719 know, I think it's you'll actually probably know this better than I do, 571 00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:27,559 is that it's HRC. I think they're like scorecard that they give it to 572 00:46:27,639 --> 00:46:30,239 company or something like that. It's actually the sponsored literary Yes, Pharma. 573 00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:35,719 So we just covered the White House, We've covered tech companies. You know, 574 00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:39,719 the left, you know, the cultural left even really thinks that it's 575 00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:45,000 still in some ways tethered to the economic left. Cultural Marxism and real Marxism. 576 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:50,000 People can debate whether or not one is inevitable after the other, but 577 00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:55,480 they they really are clearly distinct on this particular issue. Because corporate interests have 578 00:46:55,559 --> 00:47:00,119 prayed on these young people in very obvious ways, not corporate interest but also 579 00:47:00,159 --> 00:47:05,199 powerful political interests. And maybe you can tell us a little bit about how 580 00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:10,199 these young people were preyed on basically by these interests. Yeah, this is 581 00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:13,840 I've written. I wrote about this a lot, I want to say, 582 00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:20,840 during Pride Ment last year and really opened my eyes to how pervasive this issue 583 00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:25,760 is. So the Human Rights Campaign, Uh, they have a scoring system 584 00:47:27,159 --> 00:47:30,880 that they use, two different ones, and I'm actually probably more I'm just 585 00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:36,360 not familiar with the other ones. One specifically for corporations. So it's called 586 00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:42,639 the Corporate Equity Index. And what they do is they score all these major 587 00:47:42,679 --> 00:47:47,800 corporations based on how affirming and you know, how well they live up to 588 00:47:49,039 --> 00:47:55,400 the HRC standards for equity and inclusion and diversity. And what that means is, 589 00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:01,840 if let's say Coca Cola doesn't put out some kind of pro trans messaging 590 00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:07,719 during Pride Month, they may get scored against and not get one hundred percent 591 00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:14,159 rating from the HRC. And the HRC is very good at kind of using 592 00:48:14,199 --> 00:48:19,280 this and holding it over their heads to scare them into complying. And so 593 00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:24,880 if you look Google your favorite corporation. Odds are they have a one hundred 594 00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:30,719 percent score from the Human Rights Campaign. Odds are they have a press release 595 00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:35,840 on their website saying, whatever you know, Coca Cola gets one hundred percent 596 00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:40,840 rating from the Corporate HRC's Corporate Equity Index, and they they're very excited about 597 00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:45,840 it, and they want everyone to see that they got this and to appreciate 598 00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:51,840 that. You'll even see that from places like Fox News, are Fox Corporate 599 00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:58,159 or Oreo random random corporations that you would probably be very surprised by. And 600 00:48:59,599 --> 00:49:02,880 the HI see very much has a firm grasp on corporations right now, and 601 00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:07,800 maybe a lot of these companies don't want to comply, but they have to 602 00:49:08,599 --> 00:49:15,360 because there are implications there which I'm not even fully aware of, that will 603 00:49:15,559 --> 00:49:21,199 very seriously impact them if they don't. Same goes for medical organizations and hospitals. 604 00:49:22,159 --> 00:49:27,960 There's a HRC's I want to say it's the Medical Equity Index, but 605 00:49:28,039 --> 00:49:30,480 I'm the first word might be different, but it does the same thing, 606 00:49:30,519 --> 00:49:37,000 and they score hospitals based on the same criteria, and so hospitals are also 607 00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:44,280 coming under the thumb of the HRC, which let's remember, is pushing very 608 00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:50,079 ideological content. So the doctors who have taken an oath to do no harm 609 00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:57,239 and are supposed to be basing their work and their life saving work on biology 610 00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:05,800 and facts and science are very strong signals that prioritizing ideology will make them go 611 00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:15,480 much farther in the good graces of the medical systems than factual and biological analysis. 612 00:50:15,119 --> 00:50:20,400 Uh. And you know, I think a good example of this and 613 00:50:20,519 --> 00:50:29,000 how far these places will go to cowtow to ideology. Helena told me that 614 00:50:29,079 --> 00:50:32,400 when she she had just started taking to stosterone, which she got at a 615 00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:39,079 Chicago planned parenthood, and she starts ingesting, injecting it into her leg, 616 00:50:39,199 --> 00:50:45,440 and you know, she begins to have some very serious mental health effects, 617 00:50:45,559 --> 00:50:51,079 very negative ones. She's struggling dramatically. So she checks herself into a Chicago 618 00:50:51,159 --> 00:50:55,440 area hospital and when she checks in, she tells them she's a guy. 619 00:50:55,960 --> 00:51:00,320 She gives them her male name and her male pronouns. But they knew that 620 00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:06,239 biologically she was a woman. It's on her forms, and they were aware. 621 00:51:06,599 --> 00:51:10,760 They also knew that she was taking tastosterone. But Helena told me that 622 00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:16,119 when this hospital was treating her, the medical professionals there made a decision. 623 00:51:17,119 --> 00:51:22,679 They pretended she was a guy who needed mental health help, and so they 624 00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:29,880 prescribed her a bunch of different antidepressants and other drugs to help her, pretending 625 00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:34,159 she's a guy that has mental health problems and ignoring the reality that she's a 626 00:51:34,199 --> 00:51:38,960 woman who has mental health problems because she's taking tistosterone and so, you know, 627 00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:47,079 they completely ignored the source of her troubles and instead prioritized ideology over facts 628 00:51:47,079 --> 00:51:53,119 and science to push this fake narrative and that story. It might sound kind 629 00:51:53,119 --> 00:51:59,559 of complicated or trivial, but I think it's a really good example of how 630 00:51:59,679 --> 00:52:05,159 serious this situation is, where we have our doctors who are supposed to be 631 00:52:05,159 --> 00:52:09,400 able to trust with their lives, pretending something that is fake so they can 632 00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:15,239 further a narrative that isn't even going to make us feel better. And that 633 00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:19,599 story really disturbed me. I went over the details of it with her multiple 634 00:52:19,679 --> 00:52:22,920 times because I couldn't believe it. But that that is a reality that we're 635 00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:30,719 facing, and you know that that is also a very scary factor when it 636 00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:35,760 comes to students that are coming out of medical schools, students that are being 637 00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:40,719 trained right now and are being taught to prioritize ideology over facts and science. 638 00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:45,280 They're being taught that if you don't prioritize ideology over facts and science, that 639 00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:49,880 you could be in danger, your reputation, your job might be at stake. 640 00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:54,880 And all of this, I think should really scare us. So well 641 00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:59,079 said and I said, Pharma, But I met Pfizer. I actually looked 642 00:52:59,079 --> 00:53:02,280 it up while you were talking about Margaret. It's their Healthcare Equality Index and 643 00:53:02,559 --> 00:53:07,159 there's a big Pfizer logo right on the damn website. So could you tell 644 00:53:07,159 --> 00:53:10,039 this just before we wrap who's making money off of all of this. I 645 00:53:10,039 --> 00:53:15,440 think planned parenthood is an important player in that. But it has to as 646 00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:19,800 you do this reporting and at the same time talk to these young people, 647 00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:25,800 it has to just be gutting watching so many people like literally profit off of 648 00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:30,480 this. Oh yeah, And I mean these are young people who it's not 649 00:53:30,519 --> 00:53:35,880 like they're using daddy's money to pay for their surgeries. I mean some of 650 00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:40,480 them might be. Pa Precia, for example, was working at Panera trying 651 00:53:40,559 --> 00:53:45,440 to make enough money to pay for her surgery, which was promised to her 652 00:53:45,599 --> 00:53:49,679 to make her happy. You know, this is more trans identifying people in 653 00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:54,719 the lower socioeconomic brackets than the higher. It's like their studies showing that it's 654 00:53:54,760 --> 00:54:00,559 it's unreal, and and and so you know, she's desperately trying to scrape 655 00:54:00,559 --> 00:54:06,280 together enough money for her double misctomy. And then when she actually goes through 656 00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:10,559 with the double misactomy, she has to wait a long time for her scars 657 00:54:10,559 --> 00:54:15,760 to heal. She can't even raise her arms for fear of tearing her scarring, 658 00:54:15,519 --> 00:54:20,639 and Panera fired her because she couldn't come into work, so she had 659 00:54:20,639 --> 00:54:27,320 to go into debt over her surgery. Just really very upsetting a stead of 660 00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:32,440 circumstances. So you know she's paying for those surgeries. But take a step 661 00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:37,360 back to the hormones. I think the Daily Wire. Greg Ray, who 662 00:54:37,679 --> 00:54:40,679 used to work for Tucker and now he works for Matt Walsh, he didn't 663 00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:49,159 undercover investigation with one of these hormone companies that sell testosterone and estrogen and they'll 664 00:54:49,159 --> 00:54:52,639 ship it to you in discrete packaging so that your family is not sure what 665 00:54:52,679 --> 00:54:57,519 you're receiving. Greg went undercover, But I kind of laugh when I say 666 00:54:57,519 --> 00:55:00,880 that, because he didn't totally go undercover. He just made a very casual 667 00:55:00,039 --> 00:55:06,920 call and did a video interview with one of these organizations I believe it was 668 00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:13,599 Folks Folx and asked them about getting hormones, and they just fast tracked him 669 00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:16,239 to go through the process and get hormones, didn't even question that he wasn't 670 00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:22,079 even trying to act as though he identified as a woman. And I documented 671 00:55:22,159 --> 00:55:29,719 my book all these subscription services that will send testosterone an estrogen to your house, 672 00:55:30,679 --> 00:55:34,559 and I want to say it's upwards of one hundred dollars a month just 673 00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:39,559 on that one subscription. But the fact of the matter is that you're not 674 00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:45,639 just signing up for this for a couple months. If you're taking testosterone, 675 00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:50,079 the idea is that you're going to take it for the rest of your life 676 00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:54,519 so that you are feeling like a man. And so the idea behind a 677 00:55:54,559 --> 00:56:00,440 lot of this is that you are embarking on a very costly journey that you're 678 00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:04,880 going to have to continue paying for for many years to come. And by 679 00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:07,400 the way, when you so you let's say you begin on puberty blockers like 680 00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:12,360 Chloe Cole, then you go onto stosterone, then you get a double missectomy. 681 00:56:13,079 --> 00:56:19,760 The next step which you'll be encouraged to take because if you if you 682 00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:22,440 truly want to be a man, you got to get rid of it. 683 00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:25,719 Is getting a hysterectomy, and that's a really invasive surgery, and it's not 684 00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:32,159 a surgery that you can actually see the effects of. And that's a really 685 00:56:32,199 --> 00:56:37,400 weird one because for Chloe, for example, getting a double misectomy, yeah, 686 00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:42,679 you can see that is a very visible sign of and it can help 687 00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:45,519 you very much pass as they say, as a guy. The hysterectomy is 688 00:56:45,559 --> 00:56:50,800 more mental. It's knowing that you don't have a uterus anymore. And then 689 00:56:51,119 --> 00:56:57,480 they'll also encourage you to get bottom surgery to try and get fake genitalia that 690 00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:01,679 sometimes is constructed out of your test sense so that you can look like you 691 00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:08,920 have fake male genitalia that doesn't work obviously, that you'll be told can work, 692 00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:13,760 and you'll be encouraged to use in a sexual capacity, which is all 693 00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:17,880 just mind blowing because this is fake, doesn't work, and it's just an 694 00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:22,159 ew factor that I don't really know how a lot of these people overcome, 695 00:57:23,159 --> 00:57:29,519 but we're asked to kind of overlook. And then for the men, when 696 00:57:29,559 --> 00:57:34,559 it comes to genital surgeries, that's even more painful, and there's the construction 697 00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:42,000 of a fake cavern that is a wound that is constantly trying to heal and 698 00:57:42,159 --> 00:57:45,159 they have to dilate it or al say it will close. And that's just 699 00:57:45,239 --> 00:57:52,639 kind of a life long, awful, wretched circumstance of pretending to be a 700 00:57:52,679 --> 00:57:59,079 woman with something that is painful and smells and continues to try and heal, 701 00:57:59,159 --> 00:58:01,679 and you are the one and actively keeping it from healing. So the whole 702 00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:08,079 thing is just so disturbing. And yet these are surgeries that you pay for, 703 00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:13,360 that you're encouraged to get, and you can keep going down the line. 704 00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:16,079 You want facial femininization, go for it. You want to sculpt your 705 00:58:16,079 --> 00:58:21,280 body so that you look on your fat is in different places and you don't 706 00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:23,960 look as much like a woman or a man. That's encouraged too, And 707 00:58:24,039 --> 00:58:30,840 it just goes on and on and on. So for the people who do 708 00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:35,480 go through a lot of these surgeries, my heart goes out to them because 709 00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:38,320 the amount of money and pain, both mental and physical, that they are 710 00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:44,199 enduring trying to find this happiness that is promised to them. It is just 711 00:58:44,239 --> 00:58:51,199 incredibly sad and I find it very borderlined A spiritual warfare there, and that 712 00:58:51,239 --> 00:58:57,400 they're being promised happiness. That is not something that medical professional should be promising 713 00:58:57,480 --> 00:59:02,119 anyone. You know, we can promise health perhaps or maybe increase in health 714 00:59:02,639 --> 00:59:07,760 or pain relief, but the idea that you can sell someone happiness based on 715 00:59:08,519 --> 00:59:16,239 your ideological persuasions, it's just, honestly, it's evil to me. And 716 00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:21,000 before we close, I wanted to ask Mary Margaret what you would say. 717 00:59:21,599 --> 00:59:25,880 You've probably had these conversations, although they're also probably too far in between, 718 00:59:27,199 --> 00:59:31,320 too far and few in between, with people on the left who say, 719 00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:37,239 listen, I know someone who transitioned five years ago. You know, they 720 00:59:37,239 --> 00:59:40,679 were able to get those puberty blockers and they're now in their twenties and they 721 00:59:40,679 --> 00:59:47,199 are happily living as a transitioned person. You're cherry picking these stories of de 722 00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:51,480 transitioners. You know, it's not for everyone, but there are cases. 723 00:59:51,519 --> 00:59:55,039 I mean, actually, even Hillary cass As you well know, stop short 724 00:59:55,079 --> 01:00:00,559 of saying that this should never be a treatment for children period. You know, 725 01:00:00,639 --> 01:00:04,239 it's just bravely skeptical of many of the treatments. But there are a 726 01:00:04,239 --> 01:00:08,239 whole lot of people that would say this is an important treatment to maintain access 727 01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:13,000 to I know people who have benefited from it. It is right for some 728 01:00:13,239 --> 01:00:16,920 people. What would you say to them, Mary Margaret, I would say, 729 01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:21,400 first of all, that it is never the right decision to try and 730 01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:27,519 transition a child. I also would argue that it's never the right decision to 731 01:00:27,519 --> 01:00:31,360 try and transition an adult. Now, you may disagree with that. I 732 01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:38,320 think there's potentially room for disagreement there, especially depending on what you believe religiously 733 01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:45,360 and whether you have religious grounds for objecting to a transgender or an adult trying 734 01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:49,719 to become transgender. I think that from a secular standpoint, you can never 735 01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:52,920 fully transition someone. That's just not possible. And I think we need to 736 01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:58,719 be realistic about that. Maybe it will relieve certain symptoms of gender dysphor you 737 01:00:59,159 --> 01:01:04,920 to try to do certain surgeries or hormonal interventions. For an adult, maybe 738 01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:07,480 it will slightly relieve the genderdice for you, but they are not going to 739 01:01:07,559 --> 01:01:13,880 actually become a woman or a man if they were not biologically created that way. 740 01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:17,239 And I think we need to be realistic about that. Some of this 741 01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:22,280 stuff may relieve genderdice for you, that doesn't mean it's the right thing to 742 01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:24,159 do. And I think we need to be a little more factual when it 743 01:01:24,159 --> 01:01:29,760 comes to that. For kids, I'm sorry, I just I don't see 744 01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:31,559 a world in a way in which any of this is good for them. 745 01:01:32,559 --> 01:01:36,440 Even if someone says, oh, well, you know, I had to 746 01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:39,360 find that one on puberty blockers, and now they're thriving as a transgender adult, 747 01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:44,360 you know what. The thriving aspect of that, I think is usually 748 01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:47,880 highly exaggerated. For a little boy that goes on puberty blockers, odds are 749 01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:53,039 his testicles are going to never fully form. That's not something that we're willing 750 01:01:53,079 --> 01:01:57,280 to talk about. And the experiment isn't complete for many of them. I 751 01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:00,239 mean it's not yours is not seventy. You know, if you're somebody who 752 01:02:00,239 --> 01:02:07,039 transitions when you're fifteen years old, you have what sixty more years of life 753 01:02:07,039 --> 01:02:09,800 to live on average? Oh yeah, yeah, And I've been doing this 754 01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:13,079 for what Because there's an argument that, like, well, people have been 755 01:02:13,119 --> 01:02:17,000 prescribed puberty blockers for twenty plus years for other things et cetera, et cetera, 756 01:02:17,079 --> 01:02:22,559 early periods. But a lot of that is inflated too. They'll say 757 01:02:22,559 --> 01:02:25,119 people have been prescribed puberty blockers for X amount of years. But like what 758 01:02:25,119 --> 01:02:30,599 they're not telling you is they've been prescribed for early puberty, maybe not for 759 01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:35,079 gender dice for you. So there's a lot of manipulation there too, and 760 01:02:37,119 --> 01:02:42,719 I think a lot of it is coming from a manipulative place when you see 761 01:02:43,039 --> 01:02:49,280 pulling on this. For example, asking Americans if they support gender affirming care 762 01:02:49,599 --> 01:02:55,320 is not a legitimate question. Asking Americans if they support transgender surgeries, hormones 763 01:02:55,360 --> 01:03:00,000 and puberty blockers for minors, that is a legitimate way, And what you'll 764 01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:06,119 find when you ask it is that most Americans don't support those things. So 765 01:03:06,159 --> 01:03:09,960 I think that's a big part of the issue here is that most Americans, 766 01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:14,679 and I would say globally this is an issue too, are not being given 767 01:03:14,719 --> 01:03:20,119 the full information on this topic, and so public opinion is a little skewed 768 01:03:20,199 --> 01:03:23,400 when it comes to these things because a lot of it is represented in terms 769 01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:27,480 of empathy. You know, the word care is thrown around so much. 770 01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:32,440 Would you deny care to trans youth? They want you to think that, 771 01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:37,239 the media outlets and organizations want you to think that some kind of vital care 772 01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:43,320 is being denied to kids who identify as trans. Well, No, it's 773 01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:45,719 not like they're being denied antibiotics for strep throat, which is I think what 774 01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:50,159 some of these places want you to think when you read their headlines. They're 775 01:03:50,199 --> 01:03:54,079 being denied all these treatments that they can get when they're an adult if they 776 01:03:54,159 --> 01:04:00,920 choose, but they're being given a shot at childhood and innocent and not having 777 01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:05,760 those things taken away from them before they can fully consent. Just you know, 778 01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:12,480 Mary Margaret, congratulations on the book, Congratulations on your career. It's 779 01:04:12,519 --> 01:04:17,800 it's just such a privilege to watch your work play out and to know that 780 01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:24,000 you're doing covering hard stories like this over at the Daily Signal and again. 781 01:04:24,119 --> 01:04:30,239 The book is called d trans True Stories of Escaping the Gender Ideology Cult. 782 01:04:30,559 --> 01:04:35,119 It's out right now. Make sure you pick up a copy. It's such 783 01:04:35,159 --> 01:04:39,480 an important, such an important piece of reporting. So Mary Margaret, thanks 784 01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:43,000 for joining us. Thanks so much for having me. Emily, of course 785 01:04:43,119 --> 01:04:45,079 you've been listening to another edition of The Federalist for radio hour. I'm Emily 786 01:04:45,159 --> 01:04:48,760 Dashinsky, culture editor here at The Federalist. We'll be back soon. Until 787 01:04:48,840 --> 01:05:00,159 then, the lovers of freedom and anxious for the frame earned the fame by 788 01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:11,159 the reason, and then it faded away mm hmm.