WEBVTT

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We are heading to Washington, d
C. Where Aaron Hawley, wife of

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Senator Junkshall from Missouri, is at
the center of a Supreme Court case concerning

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the abortion pill. Mif for Pristoe
Helen, what can you tell us about

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the story and the ongoing battle of
bodily autonomy and female politicians actively working against

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their own interests. Let us welcome
to the christ So nationalist ring. Aaron

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Holly with third of the American populists
in support of having access to birth control.

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Holly thinks she knows better. Aaron
Holly, wife of US Center Josh

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Holly, and Yale Law School graduate, is one of the faces of conservative

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Christian white women who are pushing against
the availability of birth control prescriptions. Holly

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is another right ring grifter who is
using the benefits which feminism and privilege gave

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her to speak in front of Congress
against the health decisions of American citizens.

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This article's title is Aaron Holly,
The Woman Arguing Against the Aborshi Pill,

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published by The New York Times and
Yahoo News by Elizabeth Elizabeth Dyas and a

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Abby Van Sickle on March twenty six, twenty four. Okay man, this

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is a running theme on the show
aligning with the oppressors to take away the

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rights of others, are defending or
you know, defending the oppressors that do

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these things. What I found interesting
about Holly's article and her child what the

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article mentions about our childhood that she
was surrounded by trail blazers, strong independent

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women, and due to the privileges
and opportunities that were afford to her.

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Because of those women, she doesn't
strong. She doesn't think other women should

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have the same opportunities. She is
rich, she is white, she is

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educated, and probably had a shitload
of help along the way, And this

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feeds into a false narrative that you
can as long as you have you know,

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an education, you have the money, you you know, you can

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take care of the babies. But
I'm sure she has a nanny and she

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has the finances to you know,
have these things to kind of help it

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along the way. And we all
know this is not the reality for most

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people that identify as women in this
country. So it's a problem. Yeah,

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it definitely is a problem, especially
being able to use your privilege to

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say, okay, yes, I'm
going to be able to come up in

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a particular area where I can have
the education, have the privilege, have

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the money, and still be able
to balk and push against this particular thing

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that could be very devastating to other
people who are able to have children.

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But I am wanting to come to
you, Jonathan. You mention this being

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an example of an Also, Helen
has said people in an oppressed group working

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against Sarah oppressors to further degrade their
own interests. Can you talk a bit

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more about that here, I'm mute, still on mute. Okay, that's

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the first one. Anyway, there
are several points is that the you know

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this this comes down to a form
of future shock, and I think a

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lot of zealot and I'm not sure
about her because I'm not her. But

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she was raised by her mother and
on a ranch where the foundations of her

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great great great grandmother's house were still
on the proper. So she had fairly

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independent, powerful women in her life. But they also were extremely religious as

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she is. But you know,
they actually told her that they weren't going

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to pay for her to go to
college, and she went ahead and got

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a scholarship. She went to one
university, I think it was either Michigan

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or Montana, can't remember, and
then ended up in Yale Law School after

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she transferred to Yale for the last
couple of degree. So she's went to

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a you know, a big name
law school and ended up you know,

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eventually here. But you know,
from Ranch to East Coast society must have

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been a culture show. But you
know, people who are trying to make

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everybody believe the way they do so
that they can validate their own beliefs.

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We've talked about a lot, and
that's one of the problems I see,

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and that's causing her cause other people
harmed, and that's not just because of

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that. But she thinks, and
I'm sure she really truly believes she's doing

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the right thing by upholding the value
she learned in a very rural area with

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you know, not so good societal
norm So yeah, and so now I'm

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thinking that, you know, how
do people get to where they're opposing their

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own interests? And that, to
me is something that needs to be probably

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further discussed. But they I really
think that it's just she has a big

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conflict between what she actually is experiencing
and what she believes should be right.

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I hear that. I hear that
conflict also comes into certain people when they

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are imploring their cognitive dissonance when it
comes to maybe what they taught to currently

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what they believe. But I want
to move on to u Eli. Now.

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I know that you talked a little
bit more about Aaron's work in overturning

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the Robe Way case for Adots versus
the women health of Jackson, Mississippi,

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and also on three oh three Creative, So can you talk a little bit

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more about her involvement in those cases
and maybe where it kind of like led

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her to what she's doing now.
Yeah, So I'll start with three or

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three Creative because just to get it
out of the way, because it's not

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really related to our topic today.
Three or three Creative via Alanis, I'll

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start there. I first thing,
first, I don't know who Elinus is.

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Couldn't figure it out. But three
or three Creative LLC is the business

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of a web developer based in Colorado
named Lorie Smith. She wanted to move

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into developing wedding websites, but did
not want to be asked to create a

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wedding website for a same sex couple. She believes that well, this is

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straight from the syllabus of the case
written by the Supreme Court. This is

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on Supreme Court dot gov. Miss
Smith worries that Colorado will use the Colorado

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Anti Discrimination Act to compel her,
in violation of the First Amendment, to

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create websites celebrating marriages she does not
endorse. To clarify her rights, Miss

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Smith filed a lawsuit seeking an injunction
to prevent the state from forcing her to

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create websites celebrating marriages that defy her
belief that marriage should be reserved to unions

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between one man and one woman.
Long story, short, six to three

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decision they upheld. They determined that
Colorado cannot compel the designer to create work

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that violates her values. So Miss
Smith was represented by Alliance Defending Freedom,

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for whom Aaron Hawley is the senior
counsel as well as the VP of Center

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for Life and Regulatory Practice. Which
means something. I don't know what it

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is, but that means it and
so. Dobbs Versus Jackson Women's Health Organization

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is the now famous case that overturned
the Roe v. Wade decision, which

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prohibited states from banning access to elective
abortion services. The Dobbs case returned the

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state's returned to the states the option
to allow or not allow elective abortion services

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within their borders. From Axios dot
Com. Aaron Hawley's involvement in this case

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was also through Alliance Defending Freedom helping
the state of Mississippi. And this is

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a quote from the website draft merits
and reply briefs for the Dobbs v.

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Jackson case, and of the decision, Holly said, I'm so pleased.

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It's a six' to three decision. The Supreme Court has taken the shackles

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of row off the states. So
this is essentially as a result of her

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previous work and especially coming off of
the Dobbs v. Jackson case and overturning

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Roe v. Wade, She's kind
of on like she's feeling really good about

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herself and that's a really major thing. Like to her credit, that is

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a significant accomplishment. If if that's
you know, what you're attempting to accomplish,

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then that's a really really significant step
toward that. And so now she's

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going to feel unstoppable and she's going
to feel like what she's doing here is

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just a really really small step compared
to overturning a you know, decades long

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decision. From the Supreme Court over
over fifty years, right, And it's

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interesting that you actually mention how she
said the shackle off of Roe v.

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Wade almost like making it the decision
to be able to have bodily autonomy a

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slave to your mind. I don't
know. I'm curious to hear what the

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panelists think about when you hear that
quote that Eli just said, you know,

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the shackles off of Roe v.
Wade, and basically the the imagery

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that may come up in one's mind
using those terms. What are your thoughts,

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Helen, I want to come to
you about that. And then Jonathan,

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I want your thoughts. Well,
I have wrong with that because she

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was based she's basically for some reason
things that taking the shackles off of roversus

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Wait, which was giving people more
freedom and more access to making health care

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decisions for themselves, and basically comparing
it to slavery, which is counterdictory and

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confusing. And I am like,
girl, you need to go back to

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school because you guys learning to do
It's a real problem. And I understand,

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like if she is antichoice, you
know, fine, but you don't

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know better than half the population of
the United States. I am so sorry

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you don't. And yes, you
have money, you have privilege, and

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you're like, please let me be
a very good steparate wife. Oh please,

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God, I'll be a very good
girl. And I'm like, I

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am so sorry, honey, I
am so sorry. But just because you

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want to be a nice little Christian
wife and also haven't be married to a

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senator and have some boogle bucks.
Fine, but your education does again,

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doesn't doesn't give the right to think
you know better than other people's minds.

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And again, I think you should
learn the definition of slavery. I think

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would be a good thing for you. Yeah, no, learning learning the

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definition of slavery and maybe like looking
at how that language could be completely problematic,

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I think that you should learn that. Jonathan, what say you when

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you hear those words that she has
made you're on mute again? Well,

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just somebody was going to do that, right. And one of the things

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about this is, you know shackles, Yeah, that's cringe. And the

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reason it is is because it's a
propaganda move. You know, what you

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do is you take what the other
people are doing and you turn it around

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and say that's what you're doing.
And so you get the the bonafides of

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your opposition, especially when your opposition
is more popular than you are. So

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it's like it's a marketing play,
you know. Shackled you know, Roby

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Wade shackled you to having the freedom
to have abortions. Yeah right, okay,

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and snow cones shackle you to having
cold something on a hot day,

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you know. I mean, it's
so disingenuous, and it's so just topsy

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turvy, you know. And I
just do not understand how somebody with a

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legal education as strict as hers what
could actually say that and not inside cringe

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herself for being so stupid. And
yes, dear, I'm calling you stupid

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because that was a stupid statement.
Yeah, just because you want the sound

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bites does not mean that you can
go ahead and be ignorant on television.

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Just what, Just educate yourself.
If you want to be a trad wife

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and you're on your ranch in Missouri, you go ahead and do that.

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Don't think that you can force the
rest of people with uteruses into the same

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box you want to hide out in. Okay. Yeah, no, No,

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you hit the nail on the head, especially when you're talking about this

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position that she has placed herself in
as a trad wife, stepford wife,

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whatever you want to call it.
Even though yes, she is educated,

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Yes she was raised by her mother. Yes she probably even was around progressive

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people growing up. However, she's
kind of landed here into imbuing her values,

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which is highly Christian, into how
she is practicing you know, law,

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and especially how she's trying to change
policy. And I know, Eli,

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you talked a bit more about that
concerning the Christian values that she's really

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trying to inject in other people's lives
that may or may not necessarily agree with

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her. Talk a little bit more
about that. It will well. Essentially,

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I have difficulty when people talk about
Christian value is because my first response

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is to define a Christian value,
name for me, some moral stance that

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can be taken as a Christian that
cannot be taken as not a Christian.

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I don't think there is one that
exists, and I don't think there is

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any moral principle or moral code that
is exclusive to Christianity. I think we

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observe moral behavior in non human animals, and that in and of itself,

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I think animals are decidedly non religious, and that in and of itself kind

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of just demonstrates that there is a
non religious source for these values or ethics,

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and so that phrasing in and of
itself typically just really kind of drives

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me up the wall because I just
like nobody has ever that I have heard.

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I'm sure these conversations have been had, but I've never heard anybody define

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what is a Christian value and why
is it uniquely Christian? Yeah, that's

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so true. I mean, like
a lot of times when people are using

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this whole term like Christian value and
trying to like equivocate that to like some

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type of moral standard. To me, it fails, especially when you are

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looking at maybe some of the standard
ethical things that we all agree on as

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human beings not innately Christian. If
other societies especially have come to those same

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conclusions, like it's usually not a
good idea to go around murdering people,

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It's usually not a good reason for
you to go around stealing from people.

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Yeah, so, I mean,
like, so, how so like the

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question? I don't know, it's
not begging the question, but it raises

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a question of Okay, so how
did other societies come to these particular value

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points or moral centers without necessarily imbuing
a Christian value in it. You know,

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I would have to say, like, even reading this particular article,

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I kind of landed on Holly's unique
perspective as a millennial Christian and mother adds

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to the death of her advocacy efforts. Resonating with many people who happen to

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be anti abortionate and I say anti
abortion is because a lot of times that

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we have talked about this is that
when people say that they're pro life,

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that is a misnomer. No,
you are not pro life. You are

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anti abortion. Because if there are
other issues that we will bring up that

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would be more on the nose of
being pro life, like support for families,

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social programs that would actually give people
more money to buy food, have

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fair and equal housing, have you
a free education, medicare for all things

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of that nature you balk against.
So seeing so your pro life ends after

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the baby is born, and so
a lot of people are in those minds.

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Now. Her argument before the Supreme
Court reflects her deeply rooted faith and

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trust in God's sovereignty, underscoring the
intersection of her religious beliefs with her professional

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pursuit. So there's no separation of
church and state with this lady. It's

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all enveloped in what she does.
And while Holly's influence within her anti abortion

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movement is significant, the outcomes of
the case she argues before the Supreme Court

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remains uncertain. Nevertheless, her stepfast
commitment to defending conservative principles and also promoting

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pro life agendas, and we use
that in air quote actually highlights the enduring

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influence of faith and values in shaping
legal discourse and policy decision. And unfortunately,

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with this legal discourse influencing influenced by
faith and values, it definitely blurs

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the line between separation of church and
state. So I just want to go

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ahead and just give my panel the
final say. I would like to get

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you guys as final final thoughts,
rather starting with you Helen, then Eli,

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and then we're going to round it
up with you Jonathan. I do

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want to say that Holly works for
the Alliance Defending Freedom organization and they are

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listed as a hate group by the
Southern Poverty Law Center because they support recriminalizing

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LGBTQ plus people from engaging in consensual
sex acts and wants to make being LGBTQ

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for that being an adult to be
sterilized, which they supported another country.

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So if you happen to be trans
you could get sterilized. This is something

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that the linees defending freedom. Okay, I find the freedom in that so

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ironic that this woman is a part
of. So she is a Christo naturalist.

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She is fighting for the things that
we are fighting against. And I

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think it's disgusting. And again I'm
tired of people aligning with their oppressors.

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It's gross and disgusting. Please stop, it's going to be bad. Her

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arguments that messi pristone is unsafe,
and the testimony she's gotten from doctors it's

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been what the term was it was
used in the article, but it's inconsistent,

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it's not substantial. The FDA has
been extremely clear that mefipristone is safe.

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Yet Aaron Holly is using the false
claims that it isn't to push her

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Christian values once again to get rid
of what she sees as this horrendous sin

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of abortion. Push these values into
your life from the right arm of a

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sitting US senator and at that from
my neck of the backwards. And it's

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not enough for them to just not
do the thing that they don't like.

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They have to make sure that you
can't do it in the privacy of your

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own medical appointment either. Aaron Holly
is a person whose entire public identity sure

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her professional identity, she's a lawyer, but her public identity she is a

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mother, and her public identity centers
around motherhood, and she sees abortions as

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a threat to motherhood in general,
and that's why she is so that's one

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of the reasons she attacks abortion so
strongly. And Jonathan, you muted,

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sir, you mute it. No, I had my finger on it this

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time. Her writings also kind of
belie an awful lot of her attitude.

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Her writings are actually discussed. One
quote I have from her book is make

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sure you focus on your husband,
poor little feel sorry for her first book

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title, A Christian Guide to Parenting
kind of says it all. I have

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not read it, but it kind
of makes me cringe a little bit,

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knowing what it probably says. I
haven't and I'm not going to. I

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don't like throwing up. I wish
she could do the same as she preaches

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and leave the adf and lawyering to
men her superior. Now I'm going to

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go wash my mouth out with soap. Well as skeptical humanists. We must

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critically examine the implications of such activism
on issues of bodily autonomy, gender equality,

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and reproductive right, and while also
acknowledging the profound influence of faith and

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tradition on individuals like Aaron Hawley,
we have to look at it with a

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very fine, fine