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It's time for another crossover here on the Locked On podcast at KADAC.
Let's go from Locked On Bengals He's Luke Brown from Locked On Vikings for this
week's prize picks Crossover Vikings Bengals. Like I mentioned, backup quarterbacks, fringe
playoff teams. We're gonna get into the biggest stories the biggest matchups. The
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we appreciate every single one of you who make us your first respective listens and
all the every days out there. And Luke, let's get us some big
stories back up quarterbacks, changing quarterbacks and Minnesota. I'll let you start.
What's a big story for the Minnesota Vikings. Yeah, soh Hi Cincinnati.
Things are a lot different than when we looked at this matchup two months ago
and since we met last year too. It's dark. The Vikings are starting
Nick Mullins and that's the fourth starting quarterback the Vikings have had this year.
They had Kirk Cousins get hurt in Week eight. Jaren Hall started the next
game, got concussed, immediately lost his job to Joshua Dobbs, who just
lost his job to Mullins last week and now officially they're moving forward with Mullins.
So we don't really know a lot about Mullen. We haven't seen him
play for the Vikings a lot. I mean, we've seen a lot of
Mullins over you know, in San Francisco and Vegas and stuff, but he's
fairly new to us as Vikings fans. He's a little bit more stable.
I think if you got Dobbs, I'd be telling you, man, like,
you can really get this guy to mess up and throw stupid interceptions or
he'll he'll you know, be in the grasp of a and well just wing
the ball out and he's he threw two interceptions to nose tackles in his brief
stint as a Viking. Like he'll do that kind of stuff. Nick Mullins
has some of that, Like he's not the safest guy. This is not
like I've been saying. You know, we had Sean Mannion as a backup
for a few years. This isn't Sean Mannion where nothing will happen. He'll
still get outside the pocket if he can, if he if there's an opportunity
to and and maybe scramble He's a fast ish but not that fast. But
what's important is that the rhythm is proper with him. He's on time,
he's in, he's delivering the ball where it is supposed to be, not
a crazy arm, not a lot of talent as compared to guys that are
on purpose starters in this league. You know, he's not this dude just
dripping with these crazy deep balls or something like that. But like he can
throw a corner route like he can. He can he can hit that throw
and ideally we live in a world where this game came down to something else
and he just played a litle bit of point guard. Are you expecting then
this like heavy play action, screen game, running game kind of approach from
the Vikings, because that's what the Bengals have seen as a change of pace
for their offense with Jake Browning. Interesting, No, I don't think so.
Mullins has been trained in the Kirk Cousins offense, so he'll do what
Kirk Cousins did, which there's some of the movement stuff and play action stuff,
but like they are Kevin O'Connell as opposed to the Koubias who were here,
or even like McVeigh and Shanahan themselves. Zach Taylor a lot more interested
in the drop back game, just straight dropbacks, you know, five routes,
five wide, attacking you know, middlefield safeties and attacking half safeties and
trying to sort of whiteboard his way through those games with just drop back stuff
rather than the rollouts. They're kind of our version of quick game where instead
of running like slamp flat, will run a little keeper slide and check it
down to the tight end for three yards. And that's kind of our like,
you know, easy, get into rhythm kind of play. But it
very much serves only that purpose. They don't really use it so much as
a shot play anymore because defenses are just too keyed into that. Instead,
their shot plays are you know, drop back maybe play action, but not
like rollout play action and you know, go balls down the sideline or deepost
to Jordan Dattison, that kind of stuff. And of course we'll talk about
the return of Justin Jefferson. But I do find that interesting and it is
that's really interesting, yeah, something that well, I mean, just leaning
on a backup to just continue to live in the drop back world, to
watching what has happened when they asked Jake Browning to do that in Cincinnati against
Pittsburgh a few weeks ago, and it was just a disaster. And then
this total transformation against Givens schematically very different teams and the Indianapolis Colts and Jacksonville
Chaguars on defense, the Bengals started to live in this under center play action,
no more Emphy. We're going to run the ball well, arguably more,
although if you look only at more neutral gamescript situations, it's actually the
same run pass split which is on the athletic pointed out, but a lot
more play action screen stuff from the Bengals, a lot less we're gonna ask
to true past that kind of pass protection, straight dropback game from them.
Less quick game that you do a lot with Joe Burrow where they go empty
some five guys in theide a lot hard Burrow wants to live. It is
a lot harder. So that's why I'm surprised to hear you say that that's
how they want to live with Nick Mallins. Yeah, because that's what Nick
Mullin said. I think that's more of an O'Connell thing. This is fascinating
because these two head coaches have the same dad. They're both off off of
McVeigh staff. Yeah, and so when you get a different backup quarterback,
but that might just be a different I mean, that's that's what Jake Browning
did a lot at Washington too, right, So like that's just his skill
set. Mullins has been in these Shanahan systems a lot, and he's so
far showed an ability to like read these things out and get the ball moving.
I don't think he throws that well on the run, So that might
be the difference is you know, getting him out and moving him out into
the flats and moving the pocket and stuff might not be better for him.
He might be better at hit the thing at the top of your drop and
you're just not going to see like a wow, Josh Allen kind of you
know, layer it in over to like he'll be a little bit safer with
it. But right now, because the other headline of the Vikings is that
the defense is playing out of its skull, we just kind of want like
no turnovers, like just don't do anything crazy. We'll take our you know,
go score eighteen points and we'll be fine. Like we'll kick a few
field goals. We'll try to win this like back in the day when Mike
Zimmer was winning games sixteen to ten, And that might be the way that
this team kind of lives down the stretch here is by trying to really like
collapse the game and lean on the defense more. And I was talking to
a mutual friend, the guy that we both know Mike's antagony yesterday about this
and saying like, hey, look, I the Vengals can get to twenty
and in these games on the stretch of Vikings Steelers, not so much the
Chiefs maybe, but Brown's like, against these backup quarterbacks with good defenses getting
to twenty, I think it's going to be tough. And we'll talk about
this defense because I think that's one of the matchups and stories is incredibly intriguing
to me this week from a Bengals perspective, going from Gus Bradley to Brian
Flores, you could not get more different in terms of the style of defenses
that Jake Browning at quarterback and Zach Taylor on the offensive side of the ball
going to prepare for and see this week. But you talk about taking care
of the ball, it does not appear to be one of Nick Mullen's strengths.
Just looking at the PFF day to hear Luke for what it's worth,
they've got him. The last time he played a lot was twenty twenty,
so it's been a while. But he is a career turnover worthy play rate
at four and a half percent thirty three turnover worthy plays just two and a
half percent for big time throws seventeen. That's nothing. That's where we four
and a half for breakfast. I'm not kidding like the other two guys are
so much more. Who did this a ton at BYU and Josh Dobbs,
who just threw four in a game a couple of weeks ago. I think
about that number. Great, that's the best we got, is what I'll
say about that number. But turnovers have been the story of the Vikings this
whole year. They've fumbled, they've thrown interceptions. They've had games where they
turn it over three times in the first half and have to dig themselves out
of a hole. And sometimes they do, sometimes they don't, and that's
kind of where it is. But if they can get through a game without
turning the ball over, then they stand a much better chance at success.
The Bengals one of the top teams in the NFL at turning over opposing offenses,
and we'll see how that comes up as a factor this week, because
I really want to focus on these defenses. I think that it could be
a bit of a defensive struggle. Although Bengals fans are coming in thinking,
man, they've scored thirty and two straight games, I think that that is
going to be tougher this week. So we'll talk about that Vikings defense and
what I think is one of the biggest matchups of the game, which is
Flores against Taylor, hopefully staying on the sidelines unlike when Flores was in Miami.
And we'll get into those matchups coming out next. This crossover episode is
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it has to be Shultz Strolers. Luke. One of the most fascinating
matchups to me in this game is Brian Flores and that I think you've called
it's arranged, at least I've referenced to you calling it's arranged. Probably that
sounds like something I would say. I do believe that it is deranged.
Yes, And the style of defense that is blitz heavy, that is disguised
heavy, where last week the Bengals picked apart August Bradley defense is sending four
and playing single high almost the entire game. That disparate approach, that juxtaposition.
I'm fascinated to see how the Bengals deal with it, because they've been
very good this year. Attacking teams would like to send their defense events flying
upfield in the screen game with Designer Runs talked about that a lot on yesterday's
episode of Lockdown Bengals. But we also saw Jake Browning look like a deer
in headlights against the Pittsburgh Steelers, a better defense like the Vikings, but
also stylistically very different, super different. Yeah, so okay, the Floraes.
You haven't seen anything like the Flora's defense, and you won't for the
rest of the year either. It's about sixty percent Belichick and Pat and ar
Doozy Pittsburgh Panthers, which Flores got from his year with the Steelers last year.
They share a practice field, so we like watched some tape and like
took some ideas from them. But basically the question of it is, and
this is a question I always have for people in these crossovers, what is
your favorite blitz counter? What Zach Taylor's favorite blitz counter when when he's got
when you when you see eight guys on the line of scrimmage, everybody's coming
quarterback, do they check into something? Is there a hot read? Is
it just we're gonna call a lot of screens and hope that we can punish
that. What's the move? We've seen that answer change, of course without
Joe Burrow, But I think it isn't one thing. They will be hot
at times. They will try to call screens at the right time at times
and try to push the right button. But the other thing that they've always
got in their pocket, and this is something that I think is fascinating hearing
you asked that question. Is I'm just gonna throw it up to Jamar Chaser
T Higgins on a go ball if there's nobody back help, that's three step
drop and just peeve it. Okay. There are a few options, I
think, And the other one is that occasionally they'll go max protect and try
to pick it up. But with a backup quarterback or I've been scolded for
this a guy who was a backup quarterback and is now starting his third game.
Semantics he's a backup, Yeah, well he need see's not on purpose?
You know. Those answers a little bit from when Joe Burrow is a
quarterback. Got it. So the go routes really interesting. We haven't seen
that. We've seen a a lot of people trying for the screens and the
quick stuff. You know, let's just hit like a Dart rpo or let's
hit like you know something that's one step in throw or three steps in throw.
Slants and stuff like that. The slants don't work as well because they
changed a lot of the stuff they were doing on the back end into like
some some zone looks that would pick off a slant like they're dropping. Yeah,
exactly. So part of like a really key thing is when they are
in they call their uh max pressure formation. That look that usually only see
on third downs is their Bengal package. And the blitz rules out of that
are based on how the offensive line slides their protection. Someone drops out,
someone will will come, and so you'll have kind of depending on what the
offense does, determines how many people come and blitz. And the idea is
that you always have one more than is protecting. So if you do want
to do max protect, we're sending eight people if you have seven blockers,
right, or if you have eight blockers. We're sending nine for that,
like that's gonna be how those things work, and then people will will drop
out based on the protection slide so that those like quick windows are still taken.
And then you'll have corners playing really far off eyes on the quarterback one
two, I snapped the receiver, and then you're probably breaking on something because
usually guys will throw like little hitches against that, so it's one two break
or one two eyes to the receiver and then you play Manda Man from there.
But what could be interesting is if Jake Browning wants to just take that
under center three steps, throw something up to Jamar Chase, and you're you're
attacking a matchup that is really interesting and probably one of the biggest ones,
which is Jamar Chase versus I would guess Byron Murphy, but they might play
sides and let Jamar Chase go up against a Caleb Evans who's a bigger corner
and has been playing lights out by the way the That would be an interesting
matchup to test, but it's dangerous because if you check into that, if
Jake Browning says, oh, they're coming, I'm throwing this go ball pre
snap, it might be a max cover. Look where we only rush three
and now you've got safeties lurking over the top that are going to pick the
heck out of that thing, right, So you have to be really really
careful about how you do that. Nobody has really figured out a good consistent
answer to the Floores defense yet now that it has really hit its stride and
they've kind of worked out the kinks over the first half of the season.
But I kind of said on my show yesterday, Zach Taylor's turned to try
to figure this out. Now he's a pretty good offensive mind. And then
Ben Johnson gets a couple of cracks and Matt Lafleur gets a crack. So
somebody's going to figure something out here and we'll see what can consistently work.
I do think that it is a challenge just because the answers they've had the
last couple of weeks, maybe they aren't there the same way. How are
they the vikings against you know, those designer runs like crack toss, wham
trap, those sorts of things. All of that stuff gets so much easier
because of the fronts that they use that they will do. Like I wonder
what front they'll live in because usually they'll base out of either four three or
three four and then they'll kind of adjust from there, and it depends on
it's a game plan thing. So against those, I'm gonna guess that they
would want even spacing, but that's super a guess, and then they'll usually
either shift into like tilt fronts that are like six' one six guys on
the line of scrimmage, or they'll have a five man front and then bring
down another person as like an overhang defender that's a six person, so they
want six on the line of scrimmage, which makes it a lot much we've
seen against the McVeigh tree running attacks. So going back to like the Patriots
a few years ago, right right, that's the Belichick part. That's the
stuff that Flora still has from his days in New England, and it breaks
up all those double teams in like and stuff like that. But against those
kind of designed tricky trapwham kind of family of things, it also puts guys
in every gap and it means it makes it really hard to protect the puller.
Like if your guard pulls to either do trap or power or whatever it
is, it's really hard for that tackle to or that center, whoever it
is, to collapse that gap, because there is somebody in every single gap,
So like he's got his own thing to do and now he's pinned down
by somebody else. Just having that those extra guys on the line of scrimmage
helps quite a bit. And the disadvantage is that you throw over the top
of it a ton, but it's really hard to do that if we're also
sending seven all the time. Yeah, I think that that is the chess
game. And what, yeah, the Bengals will have to figure out is
the pre snap post snap diagnosis or just putting Jake Browning in a position where
he has answers something with Joe Burrow that I feel more confident about, right
because he's so good at processing post snap and so good at seeing the entire
field and figuring out where he needs to go and when at a very very
high rate of a f and accuracy. And then with Jake Browning, we
haven't seen him have to make those diagnoses nearly as often. So that's why
we just spent eight minutes talking about that particular schematic chess match, because I
think that that is such a crux of this game. Yeah, I also
do want to talk about Justin Jefferson's return and some of the players in this
game as well. I haven't paid Junior maybe one that you didn't expect me
to want to bring up, but a guy that a lot of Bengals fans
know in er Oh yeah sure because of this if it's a player of the
week, is that the game of his life? Well? And two weeks
removed from Jake Browning being the AFC Offensive Player of the Week, so we
got some undrafted Oh Award winners in this Tommy DeVito was was NFC Offensive Player
of the Week this week too. Really yeah what during this NFL season.
Oh we'll continue with a couple more comments on some of the key players and
matchups in this game before we wrap up this week's crossover coming up next.
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Lockdown podcast network. What's up, everybody, It's Joe Marino, host of
the Lockdown Bills and Lockdown NFL Scouting podcast, And folks, if you like
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Back Debit, Discover Bank member FDIC. Look before we get into mon needs
to go right for when and if you like the new predictions, we can
get your predictions. We got to talk about my biggest matchup for an entire
segment, so I just wanted to open the floor up to you to sharing
up any other matchups or players that you're highlighting are interested in talking about this
week. So I'm really excited to see what the Vikings can do with Jefferson.
We haven't really seen Jefferson since he got hurt in Week five against the
Chiefs. We saw him for less than a quarter against the Raiders, and
then he got hurt again. That did knock him out of the game,
but he's already announced that it's not going to knock him out for anymore.
He's going to play through it. He got an internal bruise in that game
and had to go to the hospital to get that checked out, so kinda
gnarly, but I guess it heals up pretty quick, so he's good to
go. But then my question is what is the Bengals move for Superstar got
to know where he is at all times kind of receivers. Yeah, that
will be the question this week. The Bengals once again without Cam Taylor Britt
who's on injured reserve, so it'll be a mix of Chenobe Aboose of DJ
Turner there. I don't think there will be a shadow necessarily for those such
as when they're not bracketing or clouding. Justin Jefferson, we even saw something
that a lot though I imagine there will be a lot of that. They
haven't I'm trying to make sure I'm not going to put my foot in my
mouth that they haven't played a ton of star receivers this year. They did
see Stefan Diggs and the Buffalo Bills, but I feel like they haven't seen
that superstar wide receiver a ton this year, and the defense has been very
prone to explosive place And so that's where Justin Jefferson and even Jordan Addison,
even TJ. Hockinson, where they've had issues with tight ends. For sure,
at times like those guys are a little bit intimidating. But then I
look at the Vikings offensive line and outside of Christian Derrisa, especially if O'Neil
doesn't play, I think that there's some things there that should just get Nick
Mullen's uncomfortable office spot. That's how you want to try to neutralize these weapons
that are a little bit s career that you have to scheme up a solution
for. If you're doing a rumo, who's gonna throw a lot at you?
He's not gonna be yea yeah he he he likes his his like exotic
six man rushes. Right, You'll you'll see well, I mean when you're
describing the yeah five often corner slot corner stuff with Mike Hilton, often some
safety stuff with Jordan Battle and Dax Hill from time to time. Occasionally you'll
you'll see some Yeah, I mean when you're describing the way floors likes to
sound pressure. There's some of that in the Bengal system as well, where
they will read rush and drop out if guys stay in, and that sort
of thing with running backs and stuff. Yeah, yeah, stuff like that.
You'll see where where linebackers will show blitz and then like bluff the blitz
and back out that that sort of stuff. But but I don't have a
great answer for you as far as what they're doing this year on a consistent
basis to deal with that kind of receiver, just because they have probably by
design. Yeah. Yeah, Well, so the Vikings offensive line has been
lights out this year, which is weird. We haven't had that in a
decade. But they've been phenomenal. They're a little banged up right now with
Brian O'Neill, who's didn't practice on Tuesday or Wednesday, or estimated not to
practice on Tuesday, but also didn't practice for you on Wednesday, so I
wouldn't expect him to go. He's got a sprained ankle that would put in
David Questenberry, who is Yeah, I'm gonna need some help over there with
some chips and stuff, but otherwise with Ed Ingram who's improved quite a bit,
Garrett Bradbury improved quite a bit, and Dalton Reisner who they brought in
in the middle of the season and Ezra Cleveland got hurt. Riisner came in,
the Vikings didn't skip a beat and they actually traded Cleveland away they were
so happy with him. I kind of have disagreed with that move. But
it's been a good unit in terms of just straight up one on one pass
bro and a lot of the pressure that they've suffered in the last few weeks
has been quarterbacks running into it, particularly Dobbs kind of rushing into pressure,
choosing the Rushlan's ruining his angles and stuff like that. Yeah, but though
I don't put it on them as much at least lately, but obviously,
you know, you put in backups, it all changes. Yeah, And
that's that's what I'm looking at. With O'Neil potentially missing the game, Yeah,
I look at that. But then on the other side, like the
Bengals by far most explosive and destructive pass rusher as Trey Hendrickson, who's going
against a guy who's been fantastic and Christian daris On Hendrickson. Will he be
up? Will be he on the the whole time unless they make a dramatic
change of plans to take advantage of a potential backup on the other side,
Trey Hendrickson lines up at right end. That's a sick matchup that will be
must see TV. I think because Darrisaw has been he was He was better
last year than he has been this year. I think, Uh, he's
been a little less consistent this year, but like just in one on one
spots, he's still as good as it gets. He anchors like crazy,
like anything that's speed to power on him, Like you can get into his
chest and he's one hop and he is down. Like the athleticism and flexibility
of it. He's so crazy. Uh, And he'll get in your head
a little bit too on the runs and you know, a little extra shove
here and there. He's kind of a mean, nasty guy that plays so
physically. I've been saying since I scouted him at Virginia, like Darisaw takes
the fun out of football, Like it just looks miserable to play against him.
Yeah, it'll be an endurance thing as much as anything you know Trey
Henderson's gonna be talking the entire game too. That's gonna be That's gonna be
so fun. Is known on the Bengals be one of the better trash tar
because which like I feel like the great Well, don't think about Trey Hendrickson.
You gotta get him on the interior because Bradbury is a hot head and
Reisner talks a little bit too. Darisaw is pretty quiet, he's pretty like
head down kind of terminator style. But the interior guys will will have a
word with you, so you gotta stunt him on the inside. You know,
see if you can't get guys to go a little bit too hard,
draw fifteen yard flag, that kind of deal. And interestingly, where I
think the stunts wellcome is going to be on the other side, Sam Hubbard
bj hill of combined for a pretty nasty game and twist and power stuff.
That's the side that struggle with it more right, So that would be the
move right, that'll be interesting to watch. I think that the whole game
plan for the Bengals on defense is going to be trying to muddy the picture
for Nick Mullins, make him think and make him put the offensive line in
a bad spot because I'm not. After the way the Bengals defense stepped up
in the run game last week, I have a little bit more confidence in
them against a running game. This averaging like the Bengals three point nine yards
per carry does not look to me from the outside to be the most efficient
running game. To make Nick Mullens have to beat them, and yes,
Justin Jefferson can certainly do that. But I think that if they can make
it a Nick Mullens drop back and beat us kind of game, that's where
the Bengals are going to want to live on. Defense makes sense. This
game is on fan duel over under forty. It feels high. Yeah,
that's exactly what I was gonna say. Retaking the over there like first to
twenty wins kind of game will be there for hours, maybe even seventeen.
Yeah, yeah, first to seventeen. I mean it's gonna be. Here's
what I think this game comes down. Do you want to key to the
game? I say it every time. I sound like a broken record.
It's not an interesting answer, but it's the right one. It's turnovers.
Yeah, whoever turns the ball over or whoever protects the ball better, I
will say, will win the game because you know, if the Bengals are
going to play a lot of aggressive defense, try to generate turnovers. The
Vikings have been turnover prone. If I'm walking away from the Vikings with the
loss, I'm probably going to foresee that I'm blaming that. But on the
other hand, if the Vikings can be safe, protect the ball and let
their defense do what it does, they get it really hard to beat.
Yeah, I think defensive struggle in this one. The defensive plays better wins.
But the the X factor I'm going to throw out there is special teams
always can be boy a real wild card. The Bengals have not had great
success punting the ball this year, and they've gotten away with some stuff.
Their punk game has not been great. Let's say they've been pretty good in
the kick return game, which I know they're talking about changing kick return rules
again. But if they have opportunities there to get short fields Like short fields
and turnovers are things that you're looking at this week as far as witching points
out and justin Jefferson Jamar Chase getting loose and getting explosive touchdowns here there like
these are the ways that their points are. I'm not imagining long, drawn
out, grindy drives. It's gonna come down to like specific moments rather than
this sort of sustained like the like there's a really good chance that like the
overall EPA or success rate of this game does not match the results of this
game, you know, because it'll come down to, yeah, that explosive
or that short field when it's it's hard to move the ball. Otherwise you
need to just kind of snap one big one off on in any phase or
this is a week But Brian Flora's defense gets figured out, I don't think
maybe, but I mean it's it's tough with a backup, you know,
you're just kind of trying to survive by that point. But well, and
and they're feeling good about themselves right now. They're feeling great about their screen
game. But I do think that the stylistic defenses differences on defense are going
to be very difficult and and something interesting. It's going to be fascinating to
watch from more on this game. Locktow Vikings, Locktime Bengals will have you
covered both before and after the game. You've got on more shows this week,
and then we've got post game shows of course as well here on the
Lockdown Podcast Network. So until then, thanks for listening to this crossover and
enjoy your weekend. Joe Marino here, host of Lockdown Bills, and you
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