WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.000 --> 00:00:05.360 You listen to RTV in Mexico. There are sounds traveling on the road. 2 00:00:05.480 --> 00:00:09.480 He' s seen only for your ears. From Mexico City we trigger intense 3 00:00:09.519 --> 00:00:15.679 emotions, merging your mind with music and ideas full of your essence. We 4 00:00:15.720 --> 00:00:20.640 choose the best music of all time and perfect it with the best spoken and 5 00:00:20.719 --> 00:00:25.559 musical programs and form a different programming. And since you' re not yours, 6 00:00:25.800 --> 00:00:30.160 connect to your station. We are RTV Mexico 24 hours, three hundred 7 00:00:30.280 --> 00:00:34.119 and sixty- five days a year of continuous programming. You are Radio TV 8 00:00:34.799 --> 00:00:46.399 Mexico only for your ears Hyperboria Radio. Are the best digital platforms for you 9 00:00:46.479 --> 00:00:51.359 to enjoy our programming at any time you want where you are and who are 10 00:00:51.479 --> 00:00:58.159 you with? Listen to us in Spotify, Apple Podcast, I, h 11 00:00:58.759 --> 00:01:04.879 Radium, Amazon Music, Google Podcast, Diser and it' s Preaker and 12 00:01:04.879 --> 00:01:15.840 Ferboria Radio. A place for you and your digital platforms lets your senses maximize. 13 00:01:18.239 --> 00:01:22.879 Let us get to the last muscle fiber in your body. You' 14 00:01:22.920 --> 00:01:27.040 re about to come in. Welcome to our disc area, welcome to our 15 00:01:27.239 --> 00:01:48.079 disca area, a place where capacitism goes dancing. Welcome and welcome once again, 16 00:01:48.319 --> 00:01:52.719 to the disca area where capacitism comes out dancing. And this thing you 17 00:01:52.799 --> 00:01:56.280 hear is still what' s left of me. Master Pedro Infante used to 18 00:01:56.319 --> 00:01:59.959 say that way. I had a stream of voice and I was model falset 19 00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:02.719 And well, we faked him a little bit more than necessary. How you 20 00:02:02.799 --> 00:02:07.920 are already it' s like Don Pre Thank you for allowing me to accompany 21 00:02:07.039 --> 00:02:08.240 you in this microphone and, obviously, I' m super happy. How 22 00:02:08.280 --> 00:02:13.400 about your little week Hello, Val Ti, well, so rich. The 23 00:02:13.439 --> 00:02:15.319 truth is I' m enjoying it and so are you for what I was. 24 00:02:15.439 --> 00:02:21.120 You took them cold and now And now because I didn' t get 25 00:02:21.159 --> 00:02:28.159 the curse of the drunk abandoned man, I don' t even hear you 26 00:02:28.199 --> 00:02:31.039 sick, but well I' m very glad you' re here, you 27 00:02:31.240 --> 00:02:34.039 ' re with us in this visca area Aha, I said here one with 28 00:02:34.039 --> 00:02:43.840 the coma. Not that, no, thank you very much for being. 29 00:02:43.919 --> 00:02:47.560 Also thanks to those who accompany us in this area viscar where the capacitism comes 30 00:02:49.120 --> 00:02:53.960 out dancing today in one more broadcast, because it was back with content, 31 00:02:54.120 --> 00:02:59.960 with a good humor, with music and good with information that we will be 32 00:03:00.039 --> 00:03:04.000 giving to what the arc of this program and we go clear and we start 33 00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:09.400 the month. But also, I don' t want to go any further 34 00:03:09.479 --> 00:03:15.599 without reminding you to listen to us through all the Hiperborea Radio platforms, also 35 00:03:15.599 --> 00:03:17.919 on YouTube, on the Hyperboria Radio channel, obviously and why not on RTV 36 00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:23.479 Mexico m X and also, to write us also on all the Hyperborea Radio 37 00:03:23.560 --> 00:03:25.840 networks. So, well, get in touch with us, which is very 38 00:03:25.840 --> 00:03:29.759 important also to know that you like it, that you don' t like 39 00:03:29.840 --> 00:03:32.039 it, that it beats you and, obviously, that you have a great 40 00:03:32.039 --> 00:03:35.080 time like us. On this side, how do you see, yes, 41 00:03:35.280 --> 00:03:38.520 and notice that good, because we are going to start with the talks to 42 00:03:38.560 --> 00:03:45.240 talk and is that this interview had already the truth, because we wanted to 43 00:03:45.240 --> 00:03:46.520 do it and that, for some reason or another, it had not been 44 00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:51.439 possible. But, well, I want to introduce you to our guests today 45 00:03:51.520 --> 00:03:55.479 valter to YOU and those who are listening to us, well. First I 46 00:03:55.560 --> 00:04:01.599 present to you the teacher ibn Huerta Peleas Pedagoga, with nineteen years of experience 47 00:04:01.639 --> 00:04:08.479 in the rehabilitation of people with visual impairment, is a teacher in diplomas and 48 00:04:08.520 --> 00:04:13.520 courses for the inclusion of blind people and low vision. She is a co 49 00:04:14.120 --> 00:04:18.720 - founder of SEA and this good one, that is, is the specialized 50 00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:23.279 consultancy for the autonomy of people with visual disabilities. And, well, I 51 00:04:23.399 --> 00:04:29.519 also want to introduce our second guest. She' s the graduate of optometria 52 00:04:29.639 --> 00:04:34.160 e Fernández. She is a university academic in the octometry career, with 27 53 00:04:34.240 --> 00:04:40.319 years of clinical and teaching experience in the area of low vision, she is 54 00:04:40.480 --> 00:04:46.959 academic responsible between graduates and courses related to visual disability and she is also a 55 00:04:47.079 --> 00:04:53.000 co- founder wants specialized consultancy for the autonomy of people with visual disabilities. 56 00:04:53.319 --> 00:04:57.680 Well, thank you both very much for being with us today, with us 57 00:04:58.439 --> 00:05:02.279 talking in this visca area and, well, telling us about it being a 58 00:05:02.680 --> 00:05:11.560 good thing. Thank you so much for how well you are, thank you 59 00:05:11.600 --> 00:05:15.720 very much for the invitation and, therefore, very happy to be with you 60 00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:20.279 here in the Risque area and making capacitism go. As Sulena says, yes, 61 00:05:20.439 --> 00:05:24.480 thank you very much. I' ve been well, then also avoid 62 00:05:24.560 --> 00:05:26.759 how you are today hello, how about? Very good night, very well, 63 00:05:26.800 --> 00:05:30.199 thank you very much for giving us this space and the opportunity to talk 64 00:05:30.199 --> 00:05:36.040 with you. Thank you very much And well, because first we ask them 65 00:05:36.079 --> 00:05:43.639 the same and bunne we start and stay with you that you tell us that 66 00:05:43.879 --> 00:05:49.079 it is, it is a consultant of specialists initiated by Professor De Hernández here, 67 00:05:49.720 --> 00:06:00.560 President and I and we intend and we are doing this work to be 68 00:06:00.759 --> 00:06:04.399 able to provide specialty services to the visually impaired that lead people who have this 69 00:06:04.480 --> 00:06:10.839 condition of life, acquire tools, skills of straits, supports that allow them 70 00:06:11.160 --> 00:06:16.720 to be autonomous, as our name says and in this way, to be 71 00:06:16.759 --> 00:06:23.560 able to cover both people with blindness and those who have low vision, with 72 00:06:23.639 --> 00:06:30.800 special emphasis on the population with low vision and on the attention to this sector 73 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:33.199 in the process of rehabilitation and care. As we know many people who are 74 00:06:33.240 --> 00:06:38.800 in the middle, sometimes low vision is not considered at all in these processes 75 00:06:38.879 --> 00:06:45.360 and we also have some other services for the general public. That' s 76 00:06:45.399 --> 00:06:48.680 where I wish the teacher could talk to us about the services we offer. 77 00:06:48.879 --> 00:06:53.720 Yes, of course I' d like to. We really divided the entire 78 00:06:53.800 --> 00:07:01.000 evaluation process into two parts. Ideally, people with low vision would have a 79 00:07:01.439 --> 00:07:06.680 process of evaluation of functional vision prior to putting together their entire rehabilitation plan. 80 00:07:09.639 --> 00:07:15.759 Then this allows us to identify what type of low vision presents, what are 81 00:07:15.800 --> 00:07:21.480 the pathological causes that generated low vision, determine how is its functional vision or 82 00:07:21.560 --> 00:07:27.519 its visual rest, as it is commonly called, and with this detailing whether 83 00:07:27.560 --> 00:07:33.040 optical aids can be adapted from a conventional lens to a legura lens or a 84 00:07:33.160 --> 00:07:41.839 magnifying or combined telescope of all these support tools and that allows the person to 85 00:07:41.959 --> 00:07:49.439 continue doing his daily activities under the best possible conditions and in some way enhance 86 00:07:49.600 --> 00:07:58.720 that rest of vision that they present. It still manages very different strategies and 87 00:07:58.879 --> 00:08:01.240 it' s all about infaring before or if it' s about elderly people, 88 00:08:01.519 --> 00:08:05.920 you manage this whole part of what visual stimulation is, specifically with infants 89 00:08:05.040 --> 00:08:11.959 who have some visual rest and that suddenly what you have to do with them 90 00:08:11.000 --> 00:08:16.639 is to teach them to know, because it' s not the same process 91 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:22.160 as a child who has complete vision, who is acquiring experiences through the visual. 92 00:08:24.680 --> 00:08:28.959 And we can also adapt some special aids, as is the case with 93 00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:35.080 therapeutic filters. Or to see the possibility of adapting some prisms after the process 94 00:08:35.159 --> 00:08:43.200 of evaluating the functional vision. Well, I' m in contact with the 95 00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:46.440 ivón teacher. I explain from the American side, because it is the part 96 00:08:46.440 --> 00:08:52.200 that touches me what are the conditions and characteristics of the person who is our 97 00:08:52.279 --> 00:09:01.960 user. And because she has a first contact with the person with the user 98 00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:09.120 to see what will be the areas that will allow us to give like this 99 00:09:09.200 --> 00:09:13.799 support to achieve their autonomy and independence. And because she works everything that is 100 00:09:13.840 --> 00:09:18.519 orientation and mobility and activities of daily life, computing, proper use of cell 101 00:09:18.639 --> 00:09:24.559 phone, applications for cellular all the process of writing. The part of optical 102 00:09:24.600 --> 00:09:30.759 aids training, accessibility in the home and regarding guidance and support networks within the 103 00:09:30.879 --> 00:09:37.399 assessment process also works a lot, as we also hear if there is any 104 00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:43.519 emotional situation that is there, as that not treated or not very clear yet 105 00:09:43.919 --> 00:09:52.159 for the process of the person with a disability. And then, if it 106 00:09:52.159 --> 00:09:56.159 were the case and if it is considered relevant by our user, it is 107 00:09:56.480 --> 00:10:05.000 derived to the psychological attention that the Maestra Juárez supports us in that part. 108 00:10:05.639 --> 00:10:09.720 She is also a psychologist with a lot of experience in the management of people 109 00:10:11.320 --> 00:10:18.399 with visual disabilities and in the other scenario, if our user had complete blindness, 110 00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:20.639 I in that part, because I no longer do an evaluation process, 111 00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:24.480 because, because mine is to measure a rest vision. Then it goes straight 112 00:10:24.720 --> 00:10:30.440 to the specialized care given by the teacher ibone which is all this that I 113 00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:35.320 just mentioned, or to psychological care. That is not in terms of the 114 00:10:35.360 --> 00:10:41.759 attention of our services that we have left. But we also have some other 115 00:10:41.799 --> 00:10:46.000 cultural and artistic activities that I think well, Ahorita, will tell us more 116 00:10:46.039 --> 00:10:52.840 in depth what these activities are about. Truly a marvel and an exceedingly complete 117 00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:56.879 service to which you are providing. And I' m going back a little 118 00:10:58.039 --> 00:11:03.159 bit because it' s really worth sharing with us, as you well mentioned, 119 00:11:03.720 --> 00:11:05.759 people who acquire any kind of disability. I consider and have talked in 120 00:11:05.799 --> 00:11:11.879 this space that the most complicated topic is acceptance, the psychological theme of understanding 121 00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:15.559 and learning to live with a loss. In this case, well, then, 122 00:11:15.559 --> 00:11:18.320 the view that at the end of the day is a sense that takes 123 00:11:18.399 --> 00:11:22.200 care of practically everyone, we have been taught to use it all the time 124 00:11:22.279 --> 00:11:24.360 and all the day. In that sense, what is the origin of you 125 00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:30.080 when you are born, how are you forming anti- going hatred final. 126 00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:33.879 Yeah, this one, look. We' ve known each other for so 127 00:11:33.879 --> 00:11:39.440 many years. Now the trajectory of both has been within the care of people 128 00:11:39.559 --> 00:11:46.840 with visual disabilities. But from two years ago we started working together, with 129 00:11:46.919 --> 00:11:54.759 the intention and with the aim of being able to work in a more interdisciplinary 130 00:11:54.480 --> 00:12:03.000 way with the people who have this condition of life so that they can just 131 00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:11.600 provide these tools. We both agree that we require an intervention each one from 132 00:12:11.679 --> 00:12:16.519 his specialty, but that it must be interdisciplinary, that it is very necessary 133 00:12:16.600 --> 00:12:20.840 that, for example, as I already mentioned, in the low vision is 134 00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:26.759 attended, the visual rest is used and then the rehabilitation is continued. It 135 00:12:26.840 --> 00:12:31.759 is then born of this interest in wanting to work for the autonomy and inclusion 136 00:12:31.759 --> 00:12:35.600 of people with visual disabilities. And so, well, in this way, 137 00:12:35.720 --> 00:12:43.039 with the profiles that we both have, we started working together, as we 138 00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:52.000 already mentioned, and we also have the support of a psychologist for this super 139 00:12:52.120 --> 00:12:56.159 important part that is the arrival of disability. I don' t say arrival 140 00:12:56.279 --> 00:13:01.440 because it can be an acquired disability or it can be a birth disability. 141 00:13:01.480 --> 00:13:05.480 And there it comes with the family and it depends on it how it depends 142 00:13:05.879 --> 00:13:11.879 on how the family can address this new life situation, the life of this 143 00:13:11.919 --> 00:13:16.960 new person with disabilities. So, yes, we believe that interdisciplinary work is 144 00:13:16.039 --> 00:13:22.279 important, because we do not all know everything, but we are interacting with 145 00:13:22.360 --> 00:13:28.639 people who have years of experience and can provide optimal attention to these situations. 146 00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:33.720 And what you said earlier about the good depression of the situation you live in, 147 00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:37.679 especially people who acquire disability, because it is one more. There. 148 00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:46.039 You know that a lot of statistics is needed in terms of disability data in 149 00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:48.120 general, but what is known is that, therefore, most people with visual 150 00:13:48.200 --> 00:13:58.879 impairment experience these depressive processes. And one of the ways in which information, 151 00:14:00.279 --> 00:14:05.320 training and clear information can come out of these fair processes is what can be 152 00:14:05.600 --> 00:14:11.240 done, the professional training of what they can do, and so, the 153 00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:16.200 coexistence of peers are some of the characteristics that support them to be able to 154 00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:22.399 get out of this state of depression, anxiety and other things that arise in 155 00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:28.960 the disability of uncertainty. You don' t suddenly know how life is going 156 00:14:28.039 --> 00:14:31.960 to follow or what' s going to happen, because when a new situation 157 00:14:31.960 --> 00:14:37.000 comes. Besides this, because, well, you' ve been telling us 158 00:14:37.159 --> 00:14:41.919 a long time ago that they have some other services that, well, let 159 00:14:41.960 --> 00:14:45.919 ' s say, apart from the medical part, and that' s been 160 00:14:45.919 --> 00:14:48.879 very related. And, well, we have continued in networks with people who 161 00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:56.159 live with disabilities and who also share their knowledge and with the people who visit 162 00:14:56.200 --> 00:14:58.240 them they can share more of them. Yes, yes, of course we 163 00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:03.519 have, well we have. I believe we have both had both academic and 164 00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:15.559 experience training in this part. Well, in my case, it would add 165 00:15:15.559 --> 00:15:18.600 up to personal family experience, because I come from a family with a disability. 166 00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:24.360 Since I have use of knowledge, my whole family for some reason or 167 00:15:24.399 --> 00:15:26.759 another, has gone through some disability process, whether it be a motor in 168 00:15:26.840 --> 00:15:31.840 a sister with down syndrome and well, so many stories. Not then do 169 00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:39.320 I believe that living with disability in a direct way, because in the personal 170 00:15:39.639 --> 00:15:46.159 case, it has been possible for me to open up to many people and 171 00:15:46.279 --> 00:15:48.639 not only within the area of health, which, for example, I relate 172 00:15:48.679 --> 00:15:52.799 to ostalmologists, psychologists, rehabilitation workers and others, but also to see other 173 00:15:52.840 --> 00:15:58.120 issues that are complementary to life, such as culture, art and, moreover, 174 00:15:58.600 --> 00:16:02.320 it is a question that, for me personally, I like very much. 175 00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:08.759 I have there as some experiences, for example, with my sister, 176 00:16:08.960 --> 00:16:15.559 who has d Although she likes to draw, and then this has allowed as 177 00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:22.559 well as knowing these people are not, for example, Chinese Wattabe that she 178 00:16:22.679 --> 00:16:29.960 is a plastic artist and she has an acquired visual disability. She already had 179 00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:37.879 previous education as a plastic artist and from the process of visual loss, as 180 00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:42.440 she now has to do just as to how to translate her work. Then, 181 00:16:42.559 --> 00:16:48.519 to meet her, for she allowed us, for to begin her leg 182 00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:51.279 not that she is the fatherest I can see. And second, therefore, 183 00:16:51.320 --> 00:16:56.159 to appreciate the work that she manages from a very different field to what we 184 00:16:56.200 --> 00:17:00.000 conventionally do, which is only through the visual. And now, then, 185 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:04.599 we can have a more direct interaction with the works, because we can touch 186 00:17:04.759 --> 00:17:10.720 them, we are single ones and that generates other kinds of experiences. And 187 00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:15.440 then, this already combined with the divon experience and with the relationships that she 188 00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:21.039 has also acquired through her work, as we began to talk and say hear. 189 00:17:21.319 --> 00:17:26.240 I know Chino, I know Maribel Ortega, I know xs and many 190 00:17:26.240 --> 00:17:32.079 people who are in some way working for disability and who can be promoters of 191 00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:36.559 much or knowledge, that nothing else stays in the medical part, in the 192 00:17:36.599 --> 00:17:42.400 part of healthcare or in the part of only the prestruction of an optical help 193 00:17:42.519 --> 00:17:47.680 or a process of empowerment, but open this scenario through courses, blind paintings, 194 00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:52.319 through sexuality courses, through presentation of books that have written people with blindness 195 00:17:52.359 --> 00:18:03.000 or low visicia and that have written in writing. How has your experience of 196 00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:08.720 this process been that you have acquired or that, perhaps you have since childhood. 197 00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:18.440 So we consider that in Mexico we do not have many areas or many 198 00:18:18.440 --> 00:18:26.000 places do exist, but they are not well known regarding where we can go 199 00:18:26.039 --> 00:18:30.880 to enjoy an artistic event, a cultural event. If I have a disability 200 00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:36.559 and the spaces sometimes give us accessible or nothing else, they tell us what 201 00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:40.319 ' s in front of us, but it can' t even interact with 202 00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:44.400 then. That is the idea that we have to open up more and more 203 00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:48.720 these spaces that are aimed at people with disabilities and, in fact, are 204 00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:53.079 not even directed only to visual disabilities, but generally, and that want to 205 00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:59.039 appreciate this type of work that other people with disabilities do. That' s 206 00:18:59.039 --> 00:19:03.440 what we tried to get down here. I would also like to add, 207 00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:08.720 if I may, Hasbaltier, as Professor Eva commented, what we are doing, 208 00:19:08.839 --> 00:19:14.759 apart from giving these services in a timely manner to persons with disabilities in 209 00:19:14.799 --> 00:19:18.079 their autonomy process, as Professor Eva rightly says, we are doing workshops that 210 00:19:18.200 --> 00:19:25.200 have in general to do with training towards the inclusion of persons with disabilities, 211 00:19:25.359 --> 00:19:32.279 but also different workshops and courses where the very people with visual disabilities in this 212 00:19:32.359 --> 00:19:38.960 case, who have many talents and many skills, can also continue to provide 213 00:19:40.119 --> 00:19:47.000 these services. They can develop it as Shino, who gives their painting workshops 214 00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:51.759 or Maribello that can give workshops on sexuality or so we can follow with an 215 00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:56.960 infinity of names and activities and the right vision is inclusive, it is not 216 00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:00.960 a workshop, they are not workshops directed for people with disabilities. They are 217 00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:07.440 workshops for the population where people with disabilities will live without disabilities, where people 218 00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:15.720 without disabilities intend not to see you live as a person who has visual impairment 219 00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:22.559 is able to make a painting, to have a workshop and to do many 220 00:20:22.759 --> 00:20:29.480 other things. People who are initiating rehabilitation processes or who are approaching some optical 221 00:20:29.480 --> 00:20:34.119 aids, for example, may realize that there are possibilities, that you can 222 00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:41.640 live a happy and productive life and so on with disability, that what is 223 00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:49.119 required is other supports, such as rehabilitation and other issues. But you can 224 00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:56.799 do that and we also do workshops that train other professionals to know about visual 225 00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:07.200 impairment. We have already worked with targeted workshops, for example, for outometristas, 226 00:21:07.160 --> 00:21:12.240 and that they also know how to work with low vision, that is, 227 00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:17.759 to provide specific optical support for this population. So, well, the 228 00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:22.400 idea of being fair is, in addition to working directly with the person living 229 00:21:22.440 --> 00:21:30.680 in this condition of disability, to be able to do a training job in 230 00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:36.279 support networks, but also around the population. And besides, you mentioned something 231 00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:41.000 very important. Many times it' s happened that they diagnose you that you 232 00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:42.000 ' re going to have disability and you don' t know where to go? 233 00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:47.039 They don' t know where to go anymore They' re just going 234 00:21:47.400 --> 00:21:48.240 to tell you what they' re diagnosing, and then life accompanies you. 235 00:21:48.319 --> 00:21:52.279 It is good that they are networking with optemologists, optometrists who at the end 236 00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:57.160 of the day know where to continue with the support of a person who enters 237 00:21:57.200 --> 00:22:00.599 a process of transition in their property and, moreover, in everything that surrounds 238 00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:07.599 them talking about the issues, because precisely of their actions, why prioritize or 239 00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:11.640 for what to prioritize people with low vision. Eva What happens is that low 240 00:22:11.720 --> 00:22:18.079 vision is like good. I' m going to use a word that I 241 00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:22.559 don' t like, but that' s what the same people with low 242 00:22:22.599 --> 00:22:23.880 vision say, it' s like being in the limbo east. They don 243 00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:26.400 ' t have blindness and they don' t look good either. No, 244 00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:32.000 then they are at that intermediate point that no one sees visible and that no 245 00:22:32.039 --> 00:22:37.119 one else believes it exists. Example of this is some people who go on 246 00:22:37.160 --> 00:22:45.400 public transport use your cell phone, with these accessibility tools through screen amplifiers and 247 00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:49.400 at a very short distance, they go looking at their cell phone and go 248 00:22:49.480 --> 00:22:55.640 with the green cane and then we have observed that they have made even memes 249 00:22:55.759 --> 00:23:03.680 of those moments because they take pictures of other public transport users and then they 250 00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:07.319 start making jokes. Not like he' s being blind. No. And 251 00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:15.160 you see your cell phone, no, then there is a lack of knowledge, 252 00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:21.720 to begin with in our population of what disability is and that the scenario 253 00:23:21.759 --> 00:23:26.359 of visual disability is not only to talk about blindness, but just this decrease 254 00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:34.400 in visual functions that does allow me to obtain certain information through the light of 255 00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:38.200 the object of the image, but that is not the same or not experienced 256 00:23:38.279 --> 00:23:42.640 in the same way as a person who has a 100% vision and who, 257 00:23:42.920 --> 00:23:48.440 in addition, requires certain special supports, not as a telescope. Rarely 258 00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:53.119 have they seen people with an optical device in public transport, on the street 259 00:23:53.240 --> 00:23:59.240 or in cinema or in public settings. I mean. I think what you 260 00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:06.880 ' ve seen most is graduated lenses or a very thick thickness not too high. 261 00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:11.440 So people say there' s really blind, not because they have a 262 00:24:11.559 --> 00:24:15.920 very thick lens. I have had, for example, patients arriving and I 263 00:24:17.000 --> 00:24:19.640 ask them what your reason for the test is and you tell me that I 264 00:24:19.640 --> 00:24:23.000 am well blind? And then this one is sometimes drawn to their attention because 265 00:24:23.079 --> 00:24:26.480 you tell them that you don' t know what the cerera is and they 266 00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:30.519 ' re not even low vision. They are patients who have very high graduation, 267 00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:33.240 who have a high myopia and so on, but at the time of 268 00:24:33.240 --> 00:24:38.599 placing the lens, they correct themselves and they see well to the hundred percent 269 00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:44.640 a good vision is achieved, then the low, the low viscence has to 270 00:24:44.759 --> 00:24:49.279 be visible and it has to be understood, apparently in order to have a 271 00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:52.319 scenario, a more accessible space. Then the tool that the person with low 272 00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:56.759 vision wants. Maybe it' s not gonna be the braile, but it 273 00:24:56.960 --> 00:25:00.440 ' s gonna be the green stick, for example. Or maybe this isn 274 00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:04.000 ' t gonna be the tactile support part, but it' s gonna be 275 00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:10.039 the one to wait. To see to visualize the stage, through my optical 276 00:25:10.559 --> 00:25:14.920 system to be able to move and do and, perhaps, to have a 277 00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:18.440 long working distance and others and that, perhaps I will have to walk slower 278 00:25:18.519 --> 00:25:25.200 with greater support to feel safe or safe from the space where I am. 279 00:25:26.039 --> 00:25:32.319 I mean, it' s a very different drive. The behavior is different, 280 00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:37.400 the lifestyle is quite different. And if we add that the person with 281 00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:41.519 low vision does not see the same as the other person with low vision, 282 00:25:41.559 --> 00:25:45.880 because, moreover, there are many disease scenarios that generate low vision, because 283 00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:49.519 it turns out that we would have to understand that the person who has glaucoma 284 00:25:49.640 --> 00:25:53.680 does not see the same as the person who has an associated macular generation of 285 00:25:53.759 --> 00:25:57.640 age, and this person does not see the same as the person who has 286 00:25:57.720 --> 00:26:00.720 cataract or who has retinopathy, diabetic, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. No, 287 00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:03.480 and he doesn' t see like a child, and he doesn' 288 00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:07.039 t care like a senior. And that is a very complex field of understanding 289 00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:12.160 and assisting and it requires a lot of experience of this and of knowing how 290 00:26:12.200 --> 00:26:17.720 to listen to the right person in order to have this greater clarity of what 291 00:26:17.799 --> 00:26:22.160 is going on, of how to see and how I can help you not 292 00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:26.720 in this process of therapy or rehabilitation. So we always think that it goes 293 00:26:26.839 --> 00:26:30.319 down well, because rather, people always think that it is either to see 294 00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:33.720 or not to see and forget. How do you say that in the middle 295 00:26:33.799 --> 00:26:37.599 there is a wide range of greys, of colors, of a lot of 296 00:26:37.640 --> 00:26:41.920 things, of styles, of seeing references and that, well, it is 297 00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:47.079 just to support people to be able to use them in the most efficient way, 298 00:26:47.839 --> 00:26:51.680 since that functional visual residue. No And well, that is certainly a 299 00:26:51.759 --> 00:26:56.519 very, very important thing, because now I think that we have really talked 300 00:26:56.559 --> 00:27:00.119 about how complete the service that this perspective offers, which, moreover, seems 301 00:27:00.440 --> 00:27:03.440 very good to me, because it is not only multidisciplinary, but it is 302 00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:10.240 also taking into account those who live with disabilities from many viewpoints tell us where 303 00:27:10.359 --> 00:27:18.960 we find them, where we can visit them and contact them. Please, 304 00:27:18.279 --> 00:27:22.160 yes, of course I do. Before that question, I would just like 305 00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:27.920 to add to the emphasis of why support for low vision is also emphasized. 306 00:27:29.960 --> 00:27:33.119 Statistically, and I love to give this fact, because the truth is when 307 00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:38.079 we hear it. I think it surprises a lot of people. According to 308 00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:42.359 him, the data of the Ineje and the last census of the two thousand 309 00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:48.759 and twenty, visual disability occupies the second place, with two million six hundred 310 00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:52.240 and ninety- one thousand three hundred and thirty- eight people living with it 311 00:27:52.240 --> 00:27:55.599 with decision of life. The census of Lineji has three categories, population with 312 00:27:55.640 --> 00:28:00.119 disabilities, population with activity limitations and population with some problem or mental condition. 313 00:28:02.039 --> 00:28:06.000 The data I just gave is from the population with disabilities. If we go 314 00:28:06.039 --> 00:28:11.240 to the population data with limitation in the daily activity, here the number of 315 00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:15.160 people who have it so call it difficulty to see some Andolentes that we sense 316 00:28:15.240 --> 00:28:22.240 that there are people with low vision. The data is eight thousand nine hundred 317 00:28:22.279 --> 00:28:27.400 and seventy- four out of eight million pardons nine hundred and seventy- four 318 00:28:27.480 --> 00:28:30.839 thousand eight hundred and fifty- three persons. Uh- huh So this one 319 00:28:30.839 --> 00:28:37.119 as you see. This is a data that triples more than quadruples the number 320 00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:41.680 of people with blindness. And then, if we did the exercise of adding 321 00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:45.960 these two numbers, we would have that visual disability would occupy the first place 322 00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:52.039 at the national level, with eleven million six hundred and sixty- six thousand 323 00:28:52.039 --> 00:28:56.440 ninety- one people, which would represent fifty- six percent of the East 324 00:28:56.519 --> 00:29:00.200 population with disabilities in Mexico and nine point, three percent of the total population 325 00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:04.640 in Mexico. No, then we' re hitting almost ten percent in this 326 00:29:04.680 --> 00:29:11.480 regard. Yeah, it' s not a minority. It is an important 327 00:29:11.559 --> 00:29:15.839 population and even if it were a minority, it would have to be a 328 00:29:15.880 --> 00:29:19.759 cared population and where they can find us. This one we can attend in 329 00:29:19.759 --> 00:29:22.240 a virtual way, also in a face- to- face way. Then 330 00:29:22.279 --> 00:29:27.079 they can locate me in a particular way on the phone fifty- five, 331 00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:30.640 thirteen, eighty- seven, fifty- five, twenty- eight. In 332 00:29:30.640 --> 00:29:36.359 a moment we give you the number of Professor ELBA and we find ourselves a 333 00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:41.160 headquarters in an optical center called Snelnvision, which is on a central axis. 334 00:29:41.319 --> 00:29:45.119 It' s Central Axis number two. Corner with chimalpopoca. We' re 335 00:29:45.559 --> 00:29:49.519 in front of Valencia' s Conde Hospital. Metro doctors to tell you how 336 00:29:49.599 --> 00:29:56.559 exactly to operate Leaving the doctors' subway, they don' t have to 337 00:29:56.599 --> 00:30:00.839 walk or human cross, rather they don' t have to cross the block. 338 00:30:02.559 --> 00:30:07.160 There we meet and they can also locate us by means of Whatsapp' 339 00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:11.319 s little message to our numbers, I repeat mine fifty- five, thirteen, 340 00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:15.400 eighty- seven, fifty- five, twenty- eight, and I 341 00:30:15.759 --> 00:30:18.440 do not know if you also like to give your number teachers. Yes, 342 00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:22.319 mine, via Whatsapp is fifty- five, six, nine, seven, 343 00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:27.079 four, zero, forty- five. Yes, it is important of preference 344 00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:33.279 that it be that way, because just because, sometimes we are with some 345 00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:37.279 user. Well, in my case part I teach. So sometimes it' 346 00:30:37.319 --> 00:30:42.359 s a little complex to answer. But if they leave us a message written 347 00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:48.759 by this audio, we communicate immediately as soon as we have the possibility to 348 00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:55.680 attend what they require we do collaborations right now. Right now, as the 349 00:30:55.680 --> 00:31:00.480 trigon commented, we' re in Snellnvision collaborating with them. There we have 350 00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:07.599 the space to do the whole evaluation process, in addition to the team and 351 00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:12.279 the support of all the people who work on this vision land to be able 352 00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:18.599 to perform the visual evaluation process. Or the intervention made by the teacher and 353 00:31:18.759 --> 00:31:26.680 well the psychologist contact her directly through us when the user does not request it 354 00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:32.279 and considers it feasible, because sometimes there is truth, because still not acceptance 355 00:31:32.440 --> 00:31:38.480 to want the emotional assistance and she also attends them by video call, zoom 356 00:31:38.480 --> 00:31:44.720 or face- to- face, depending on the preferences of each person. 357 00:31:45.640 --> 00:31:49.559 And, as she said, the teacher and bone there are some people who, 358 00:31:49.880 --> 00:31:56.880 because of their disability conditions, who have multiple disabilities, have visual disabilities, 359 00:31:56.319 --> 00:32:01.200 motor disabilities, cannot move, cannot go where we are collaborating with Enelnvision. 360 00:32:02.440 --> 00:32:06.880 And so in those cases where sometimes neither the relatives can support him to 361 00:32:06.920 --> 00:32:14.039 go, because we can perhaps make some house appointment this peo. Well, 362 00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:17.720 only in those kinds of situations. The ideal would be to see us directly 363 00:32:17.759 --> 00:32:23.240 in the facilities of Snel Endvision, because, there we have all the instrumental 364 00:32:23.519 --> 00:32:28.200 space necessary to do the whole process. But it can also be done that 365 00:32:28.240 --> 00:32:35.839 way and for our colleagues who are botalmologists, optometrists or from some other medical 366 00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:40.240 area who want to refer us patients, also right through our social networks that 367 00:32:40.519 --> 00:32:45.680 can find us both on Facebook and Instagram, either script under disability and a 368 00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:52.119 visual bass or through our email, which is also disabled arroba gmail com. 369 00:32:59.279 --> 00:33:07.480 And so, they can give us their good processes their clinical summary or a 370 00:33:07.559 --> 00:33:10.720 sheet where it is derived where they tell us what the reason is or sometimes 371 00:33:10.839 --> 00:33:15.240 nothing else. They give them the number of our Whatsapps to contact us directly, 372 00:33:15.559 --> 00:33:20.359 that is, of any of the ways that make them faster and more 373 00:33:20.440 --> 00:33:25.039 functional. They can do it directly with us. All right, well, 374 00:33:25.720 --> 00:33:30.200 thank you very much. There it is already, for the means of contact 375 00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:36.440 and indeed, for we are happy that you have been with us today sharing 376 00:33:36.480 --> 00:33:40.880 whatever and all the services you are providing. Thank you and we will keep 377 00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:45.799 a close eye on the new work of what you are doing. On the 378 00:33:45.240 --> 00:33:52.200 contrary, thank you very much for the invitation and we are, as I 379 00:33:52.240 --> 00:33:57.359 said to Professor Age, collaborating at this moment there with SNEL in Vision, 380 00:33:57.759 --> 00:34:04.920 but we are also seeing the close possibilities of other venues and alliances with other 381 00:34:05.079 --> 00:34:08.199 types of specialists and the idea is to continue this interdisciplinary work. Thank you 382 00:34:08.199 --> 00:34:12.960 very much, because very well all the success And well, because we continue 383 00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:19.280 in this disco area where the capacitism goes dancing. It doesn' t matter 384 00:34:19.280 --> 00:34:28.599 if you get up from your table or we take the service. We' 385 00:34:28.760 --> 00:34:31.480 ll be right back, Hiperboria Radio. There are the best digital platforms for 386 00:34:31.559 --> 00:34:37.480 you to enjoy our programming at any time you want where you are and who 387 00:34:37.559 --> 00:34:45.440 you are listening to in Spotify, Appon Podcast I hear Radium, Amazon Music, 388 00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:53.599 Google Podcast, Disser and Spreak and Hyperboria Radio a place for IT and 389 00:34:53.599 --> 00:35:04.159 your digital platforms. In the world there are people like you who daily work 390 00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:08.320 to live in a more humanized and environment- friendly society. If you think 391 00:35:08.360 --> 00:35:12.960 it' s important for someone to accompany you at a time in your life, 392 00:35:13.159 --> 00:35:14.480 or you' re looking to give something of yourself. Join the community, 393 00:35:14.719 --> 00:35:19.679 the web space where we share stories that unite lives on Saturdays fourteen hours 394 00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:31.800 Central Mexico time, pow m just for your ears, drinks and smart gadgets 395 00:35:31.880 --> 00:35:52.440 to follow the party. We continue in discar area We are back already super 396 00:35:52.639 --> 00:35:55.800 fast in this visca area where capacitism comes out Dancing. We' ve already 397 00:35:57.039 --> 00:36:01.000 missed the first half hour and the truth is super fast. I am very 398 00:36:01.119 --> 00:36:06.920 pleased and happy that you are still here with us to remind them to write 399 00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:10.239 to us and follow us through our social networks and to tell us what they 400 00:36:10.280 --> 00:36:15.760 think of this content. And, well, we' re still worth this 401 00:36:15.880 --> 00:36:22.119 week with something that' s given us a lot to talk about on social 402 00:36:22.199 --> 00:36:28.320 networks, especially among the community of people with visual disabilities And we' re 403 00:36:28.360 --> 00:36:32.280 talking about a decision that kids Dream Reader made, that' s a software 404 00:36:32.440 --> 00:36:37.519 right now we' ll talk about, and that, well, it' 405 00:36:37.599 --> 00:36:38.039 s going to be charged to users when the license, because it was a 406 00:36:38.039 --> 00:36:40.840 one- time one. That' s right. Let' s put some 407 00:36:40.840 --> 00:36:47.239 in context. There are programs that come to defoul on cell phones and there 408 00:36:47.320 --> 00:36:52.000 are programs that are payable that allow people with visual disabilities to read a book, 409 00:36:52.280 --> 00:36:59.000 read an article, read different files and that also come with options in 410 00:36:59.480 --> 00:37:06.400 which you can interact with those files in different ways. EPU files, PDF 411 00:37:06.519 --> 00:37:13.400 files, text files, text text, intricate, etcetera. World. Anyway 412 00:37:13.440 --> 00:37:20.880 and voice Reader is created in fact, first it went out foréphons a 413 00:37:21.400 --> 00:37:27.960 few years and with these novelties of being able to start to have a greater 414 00:37:29.960 --> 00:37:32.880 interaction with your books, with your documents. And then it also takes out 415 00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:40.199 the Android version. And then he also pulls out a version that was a 416 00:37:40.199 --> 00:37:45.119 scanner. It is a scanner in which, as you could no longer interact 417 00:37:45.199 --> 00:37:50.360 with the files or documents you had, but also be able to read an 418 00:37:50.440 --> 00:37:55.440 article or scan a sheet and access its contents through exact drug starlets, that 419 00:37:55.519 --> 00:38:00.880 is, twenty zero, things that were very possible, especially for people with 420 00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:05.039 visual impairment who live alone or who do not have at the moment a person 421 00:38:05.400 --> 00:38:10.280 close to them who can read it. Not then, because it was a 422 00:38:10.440 --> 00:38:16.440 marvel and moreover, three- tiered that are called ah application is correct and 423 00:38:16.599 --> 00:38:21.599 from the beginning the application was always paid. It wasn' t very expensive 424 00:38:21.639 --> 00:38:24.960 and in fact, it was more expensive for i is than for Android, 425 00:38:27.280 --> 00:38:31.079 who used Apple devices, because it paid us a little more expensive. But 426 00:38:31.320 --> 00:38:37.920 it had many advantages because in addition, not only for blind people with visual 427 00:38:37.039 --> 00:38:44.679 impairment, but also for people with low vision or even for people without disabilities 428 00:38:44.719 --> 00:38:49.119 who had the best tired sight or something Vois dream ridder gave you many reading 429 00:38:49.280 --> 00:38:55.280 options in terms of textures, sizes, number of lines, separation, that 430 00:38:55.320 --> 00:39:00.519 is, it does have as a visual configuration, because very sharp, interesting 431 00:39:00.559 --> 00:39:04.800 and very important to be able to read. And besides, because voices that 432 00:39:04.920 --> 00:39:08.320 you could have on your phone or buy that well, the voices sold separately, 433 00:39:09.000 --> 00:39:14.280 clade, of course, separately and there were very good and therefore voice 434 00:39:14.559 --> 00:39:21.760 engines. Then we had very beautiful, feminine, masculine voices, with different 435 00:39:21.920 --> 00:39:25.639 tones Then you can choose a Spanish voice with a Chilean accent, in Spanish 436 00:39:25.719 --> 00:39:29.480 with a Mexican accent, etcetera. No, I mean, we had a 437 00:39:29.599 --> 00:39:32.239 lot of options there, or who we don' t love as much versatility. 438 00:39:32.239 --> 00:39:37.039 I' m not the one with the phone. I understand this reading 439 00:39:37.559 --> 00:39:44.239 speed well. But also, the program, because it does have one and 440 00:39:44.440 --> 00:39:49.239 I think that so many blind people were looking for it, the reading rhythm 441 00:39:49.559 --> 00:39:55.000 is very good. So, if you respect the score fairly well, that 442 00:39:55.119 --> 00:40:00.199 ' s something that many other applications don' t do and, as you 443 00:40:00.199 --> 00:40:02.880 well say, then, well, it' s always been cost. In 444 00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:09.119 fact, you also tremescan paid separately, no, but it was a single 445 00:40:09.280 --> 00:40:15.280 payment you lowered it and she and she had very good reviews and between the 446 00:40:15.280 --> 00:40:20.559 Community, because it has been a very well- received, well- received 447 00:40:21.119 --> 00:40:24.360 application and also, as it is within the top ten of which yes or 448 00:40:25.719 --> 00:40:29.559 yes, not clear, because at the end of the day, it was 449 00:40:29.599 --> 00:40:35.199 an application to which they had spent too much time and too much programming, 450 00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:40.440 listening surely to many people with visual disabilities, users and users who, because 451 00:40:40.440 --> 00:40:45.159 they actually made a product accessible. Not because, obviously it was less than 452 00:40:45.239 --> 00:40:51.360 ten dollars, ten or so we were heard. I' ve already had 453 00:40:51.400 --> 00:40:55.039 half a face. I paid for it in almost seven hundred pesos. Look 454 00:40:55.320 --> 00:40:59.079 there in thirty- five, but come on, I mean, a one 455 00:40:59.360 --> 00:41:00.159 - time payment. You say, it' s an app I' m 456 00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:06.159 going to occupy forever and ever, because, besides, obviously a lot of 457 00:41:06.159 --> 00:41:06.840 people if they sold it to you, no. And of course because, 458 00:41:07.119 --> 00:41:08.519 like all apps that makes you pay and that blackout is forever and ever. 459 00:41:09.039 --> 00:41:15.159 Or now that the monthly or annual payments, i e subscription payments, have 460 00:41:15.239 --> 00:41:20.000 been put into effect, and that many companies have seen that from there they 461 00:41:20.079 --> 00:41:28.360 get very good business, well, said some intelligent, because let' s 462 00:41:28.400 --> 00:41:32.840 see how we get more business out of here and at the end of the 463 00:41:32.840 --> 00:41:37.039 day, because we do not deny that the application has made important advances, 464 00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:39.679 as you well mention it. In particular, and in a personal capacity, 465 00:41:40.760 --> 00:41:46.199 the most attractive to me, for it was the power to give the speed, 466 00:41:46.400 --> 00:41:52.239 rather than the tipping or more than the inflection in the voices, the 467 00:41:52.360 --> 00:41:57.519 speed that I wanted and that I felt comfortable to be able to read what 468 00:41:57.599 --> 00:42:01.800 I wanted to read, not things that other programs that are accessible, like 469 00:42:04.159 --> 00:42:07.199 the Native of Is himself, for example, that is accessible and everything, 470 00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:10.599 but you don' t have those let' s say lujitos or curiosities. 471 00:42:12.599 --> 00:42:15.519 So, well, you buy your app and you walk it all over the 472 00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:19.320 world, but suddenly, because they look like a fencing boss I know why 473 00:42:19.360 --> 00:42:22.199 I own it, change it, weed it and then the new owner. 474 00:42:22.760 --> 00:42:28.800 He said. Ah welcome be, as many blind ones love you, for 475 00:42:28.840 --> 00:42:30.159 I love you too, but draw more the na. So, now, 476 00:42:30.840 --> 00:42:37.880 we' re going to charge everyone a monthly, monthly or annual subscription that 477 00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:42.840 they see that I' m four and no more. We scraped their wallet 478 00:42:42.920 --> 00:42:46.400 in December. No, and the truth is that it is something that I 479 00:42:46.559 --> 00:42:57.119 expect the authorities, mainly European and American, because if they assert the rights 480 00:42:57.159 --> 00:43:01.039 of consumers, because at the end of the day, because it is how 481 00:43:01.079 --> 00:43:05.239 you put an analogy when we are talking out of the air, you are 482 00:43:05.239 --> 00:43:07.559 quite right. It' s not like you buy a house, an apartment 483 00:43:07.639 --> 00:43:12.280 you just paid for. It' s already yours and you' ve put 484 00:43:12.559 --> 00:43:15.840 it in, because I don' t know you' ve settled in, 485 00:43:15.239 --> 00:43:20.280 you' ve got your samples and the former owner comes and tells you or 486 00:43:20.280 --> 00:43:21.360 it comes like that in lava. Someone' s gonna tell you what you 487 00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:23.000 think I liked that one, but I' m gonna have to rent it 488 00:43:23.880 --> 00:43:28.000 because it' s gonna be monthly. Yeah, and I' m gonna 489 00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:30.920 charge you a lanita for being in this apartment. I mean, it' 490 00:43:30.920 --> 00:43:34.760 s illogical, no, because that' s what he' s doing. 491 00:43:34.840 --> 00:43:38.880 Bois dren is grabbing you, because just like it is an application that has 492 00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:45.199 been, because quite well ranked in general, but it seems to me that 493 00:43:45.320 --> 00:43:49.320 it is an abuse. No. Now let' s say he' s 494 00:43:49.880 --> 00:43:51.440 going to see and I know I' m also programming. I know that 495 00:43:52.039 --> 00:43:55.519 good as programmers, because we have to live from something, but it seems 496 00:43:55.639 --> 00:44:01.360 to me that the dissatisfaction of the users are not, they do not necessarily 497 00:44:01.480 --> 00:44:05.360 lie in that the collection is monthly, but in the way it was made. 498 00:44:05.519 --> 00:44:08.360 Not when I sell you a product that' s forever and then I 499 00:44:08.480 --> 00:44:14.679 tell you I' d better charge you monthly. So it seems to me 500 00:44:14.679 --> 00:44:22.480 to be an unethical way of doing it. Many pay for monthly applications and 501 00:44:22.559 --> 00:44:27.119 we know that, so if they are paid with greater or lesser taste. 502 00:44:27.280 --> 00:44:30.400 No, well, you know, for example, Microsoft, well, we 503 00:44:30.440 --> 00:44:36.840 pay the good guy. We see who we pay annually for our office service 504 00:44:36.880 --> 00:44:38.920 of three hundred and sixty- five. No, but you know if from 505 00:44:38.960 --> 00:44:42.599 the beginning of politics it' s clear that it is. No. You 506 00:44:42.679 --> 00:44:46.039 ' re paying all office a year and if you want to continue the service, 507 00:44:46.159 --> 00:44:50.559 you have to pay another year. No and Mira makes sense what they 508 00:44:50.719 --> 00:44:54.719 ' re trying to do, but it' s totally wrong to see. 509 00:44:55.360 --> 00:44:59.840 Yeah, that' s right. If you have to pay for your subscription 510 00:45:00.079 --> 00:45:04.639 to music or television and they are monthly and you do it, well, 511 00:45:04.679 --> 00:45:07.239 you have to pay, then also something that in theory will leave you more 512 00:45:07.280 --> 00:45:13.199 and will bring you more, because many busy people too, because to study 513 00:45:13.280 --> 00:45:16.920 or to have access to other documents. It' s super good. But 514 00:45:16.960 --> 00:45:22.360 here I think the channel can be on two sides. One. If what 515 00:45:22.360 --> 00:45:28.159 you want to be a business and you' re buying is no longer a 516 00:45:28.320 --> 00:45:32.599 program that has eight hundred thousand customers who are already users and that already buying 517 00:45:34.639 --> 00:45:37.559 that program and you want to do that and you already bought the source code, 518 00:45:39.360 --> 00:45:43.760 then, even your application, you change the name and the one that 519 00:45:43.880 --> 00:45:47.440 is, well, I' m going to support them for so long and 520 00:45:47.599 --> 00:45:51.280 it' s that clear or the other. To the new subscribers, to 521 00:45:51.360 --> 00:45:52.079 whoever has, who has already made it, well that' s good. 522 00:45:52.159 --> 00:45:58.119 At the end of the day, blind, truly blind, they will continue 523 00:45:58.119 --> 00:46:00.079 to exist. They' re not, we' re not dying. The 524 00:46:00.159 --> 00:46:00.800 blind are going to shit, no, no, why aren' t they. 525 00:46:00.880 --> 00:46:05.119 You insult people with disabilities, of course not, but I do go 526 00:46:05.159 --> 00:46:07.960 a lot of people who use it. Yeah, but I' m locking 527 00:46:07.960 --> 00:46:12.840 myself in. Let' s say to the niche audience that priority will be 528 00:46:12.920 --> 00:46:15.800 who consumes it, not what it will lead to the application. Then the 529 00:46:15.079 --> 00:46:20.480 blind will never end, never mind. No. Then what is the first 530 00:46:20.639 --> 00:46:22.239 niche of business is charged to the new ones who were already, well, 531 00:46:22.440 --> 00:46:27.440 they already had. No, because if you ask for your Apple account or 532 00:46:27.519 --> 00:46:30.840 you' re going to do a new account or something or Android, well, 533 00:46:30.079 --> 00:46:35.320 there you will already be charged, not because it' s a new 534 00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:38.519 subscriber two I stop giving support, I create a new one and obviously those 535 00:46:39.360 --> 00:46:43.760 I charge you, of course and then good that as users we would have 536 00:46:43.760 --> 00:46:46.440 passed it to you. But finally it was something much more valid to make 537 00:46:46.559 --> 00:46:50.079 you that I charge you for something that already covers you and that sheik you 538 00:46:50.079 --> 00:46:52.079 was not going to charge you. And he talks more about a business ethics 539 00:46:52.199 --> 00:46:57.800 line- up is already a bit ethical, because sorry, because at the 540 00:46:58.280 --> 00:47:00.840 end of the day it' s clear, like all applications, like everyone 541 00:47:00.920 --> 00:47:04.159 else, when we don' t read the little ones. Greetings to Netflix, 542 00:47:04.239 --> 00:47:08.400 for example, because you' re going to change consumption policies as the 543 00:47:08.519 --> 00:47:12.239 gift wins unfold, because they' re going to lose it. But one 544 00:47:12.280 --> 00:47:15.119 thing has to be taken into account is that all these policies cannot be as 545 00:47:15.159 --> 00:47:22.320 the will unfolds. That' s why there are international trading organizations, not 546 00:47:22.320 --> 00:47:23.599 just then. That is why I say, and in that comment, I 547 00:47:23.679 --> 00:47:29.559 hope that the European Union, because it can really attract this case. I 548 00:47:29.559 --> 00:47:35.599 hope that people in Europe will also do so as hard as other tasks have 549 00:47:35.679 --> 00:47:39.440 done. No and you can do that you can replicate it in the world, 550 00:47:39.800 --> 00:47:45.280 because, from the outset right now, we are living and I touch 551 00:47:45.320 --> 00:47:53.719 it like a yaz parenthesis this issue where already by the own policies of respect 552 00:47:53.880 --> 00:47:59.079 and care and protection of consumers, because now it turns out that we are 553 00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:02.719 like countries and manipulated and more free or more controls and less controlled. For 554 00:48:02.800 --> 00:48:07.199 example. Well now i oos, because you have to let download applications, 555 00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:12.159 not only from other stores, as it was going to be gionally, but 556 00:48:12.199 --> 00:48:16.880 also from web environment in Europe, but in America, because obviously not there 557 00:48:16.880 --> 00:48:23.119 will continue everything going through iTunes. Then it makes us at the end of 558 00:48:23.360 --> 00:48:27.239 the day, to some extent, primary and second- use users, and 559 00:48:27.360 --> 00:48:31.000 that' s not father. Sure, yeah, no, and look. 560 00:48:31.119 --> 00:48:37.239 I think that in this specific case and with all the applications, no, 561 00:48:37.360 --> 00:48:42.519 but it seems to me that as a user we can be unconformed, because 562 00:48:42.599 --> 00:48:46.760 through the means of the official channels to do it not direct, in the 563 00:48:47.039 --> 00:48:52.239 application and in the stores of our devices, but to make it a blog, 564 00:48:52.679 --> 00:48:55.440 that is to say suddenly if daughtersmin goes and complains, well, Jasmina 565 00:48:55.440 --> 00:49:00.360 is angry. No, but I think so. Common, common we join 566 00:49:00.519 --> 00:49:06.360 and go and put comments and put a star, well, yes. It 567 00:49:06.480 --> 00:49:10.519 is something that must necessarily turn to see no and manifest ourselves. I mean 568 00:49:10.519 --> 00:49:14.920 no, I' m not, I' m not against paying. I 569 00:49:15.159 --> 00:49:17.599 ' m not saying that everything is given away, because the na is that 570 00:49:17.599 --> 00:49:21.039 the blind want everyone to give away. Not that I am against it is 571 00:49:21.119 --> 00:49:23.320 that it was sold in one way and then one day they wake up and 572 00:49:23.440 --> 00:49:28.079 want it to be from another. It' s not like it' s 573 00:49:28.159 --> 00:49:30.960 already, it' s the business this way and it' s good, 574 00:49:30.199 --> 00:49:32.480 so please, also inside the business. No, but, you know, 575 00:49:32.840 --> 00:49:37.599 keep something new, I mean, you know what. I believe and say 576 00:49:37.719 --> 00:49:42.239 this too finally, it is an opportunity. Right now there are many communities 577 00:49:42.320 --> 00:49:45.800 that say hear and what other program we can use, apart, as you 578 00:49:47.480 --> 00:49:53.960 say well, from books that they have in Ios or some applications that they 579 00:49:53.960 --> 00:49:58.840 have of our swarfons. This is what we' re going to use, 580 00:49:59.239 --> 00:50:01.760 because, actually, because we didn' t really know as a married community 581 00:50:01.800 --> 00:50:05.920 so much with the app that we hadn' t explored anymore. I believe, 582 00:50:05.960 --> 00:50:12.440 however, that this is the right opportunity for other applications to come out 583 00:50:12.639 --> 00:50:17.519 as well and that we can explore and hope that the Community will be heard 584 00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:22.639 and that we can have other alternatives. I' m not throwing this hecto 585 00:50:23.079 --> 00:50:25.840 at vooysdrem but that we can choose and then you choose this one. Whether 586 00:50:25.960 --> 00:50:30.639 to pay or not. Or that there are others that have characteristics similar or 587 00:50:30.840 --> 00:50:36.360 superior to those that you now drive or sdream and I think that' s 588 00:50:36.400 --> 00:50:37.880 where the topic has to go. Not because, at the end of the 589 00:50:40.159 --> 00:50:44.159 day, it was a very comfortable application that went very well and that also 590 00:50:44.199 --> 00:50:47.280 stopped interested many programmers. It' s an opportunity, especially for programmers and 591 00:50:47.360 --> 00:50:53.880 blind programmers to say no more than horns that I' m waiting for you 592 00:50:53.920 --> 00:50:58.159 to sell me something to my needs and to do what you want, as 593 00:50:58.280 --> 00:51:01.880 a customer. Not past, not with screen readers, that is, in 594 00:51:02.000 --> 00:51:06.599 a moment, because we really didn' t have competition. Not the reader 595 00:51:06.639 --> 00:51:10.119 is screened or it' s me and then it was joos and jos. 596 00:51:10.280 --> 00:51:15.199 Not sure. Then suddenly, well, he came to Evedas. Now the 597 00:51:15.280 --> 00:51:17.639 same Windows narrator who was a joker, doesn' t have, but well, 598 00:51:17.880 --> 00:51:22.840 he' s already starting to compete a lot like a screen reader, 599 00:51:22.360 --> 00:51:27.079 already with features from a good screen reader. Not then, because that' 600 00:51:27.199 --> 00:51:31.199 s good that we' re having alternatives and then, as clear consumers, 601 00:51:31.440 --> 00:51:36.079 we' re not, of course, and we' re not all getting 602 00:51:36.079 --> 00:51:37.920 married with an app. But, well, we' ll see about that 603 00:51:38.000 --> 00:51:45.039 in the next few months, while those of us who read a lot I 604 00:51:45.039 --> 00:51:45.039 don' t know what we' re going to do. Amazing a while 605 00:51:45.280 --> 00:51:51.199 Ibox can be a smooth one. It' s hard for me to get 606 00:51:51.199 --> 00:51:53.000 used to boxing. I' ve already tried and it costs me a lot. 607 00:51:53.199 --> 00:51:57.079 But yes, then, or get into the store and explore and also 608 00:51:57.159 --> 00:52:00.800 start sharing those others. Sure, of course, you must see around gn 609 00:52:00.840 --> 00:52:07.119 projects or play make expedition and send us planetary. Of course they find some 610 00:52:07.239 --> 00:52:09.360 is this way. Welcome and we test it, even test it here, 611 00:52:09.800 --> 00:52:16.159 record it, connect the live with the phone, test it live how you 612 00:52:16.280 --> 00:52:22.079 hear it. And, well, we recommend and go and experiment together and 613 00:52:22.159 --> 00:52:29.039 together wonderful, because let' s go to jazz music ahy this that you 614 00:52:29.039 --> 00:52:34.400 are very baby, this that I love, that makes very good count that 615 00:52:34.519 --> 00:52:40.800 we will hear something from Mark Ronson with Bruno mars that. That' s 616 00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:45.840 pretty rich. You can imagine which, because obviously you and Ob Down Funk 617 00:52:45.880 --> 00:53:08.719 listen to it in Ariadisca, where capacitism comes out dancing gold and hard High 618 00:53:09.079 --> 00:53:22.760 School sl who or three come out worth either the series t x o sa 619 00:53:25.320 --> 00:53:52.559 bre Lord lin N, o S o s t u gracias, San San 620 00:53:53.800 --> 00:54:28.920 by Wiles o s j B Juli q uiere omac or that you are skel 621 00:54:29.400 --> 00:54:57.920 Snche Julia Howe, Jack the Who w s s s s n week o 622 00:54:58.239 --> 00:55:52.360 pllua o gracias u N o N o S O S Be the nky wonky 623 00:55:52.599 --> 00:56:40.280 wonky Wo konk Kyoko n o N o s B. But he doesn' 624 00:56:40.360 --> 00:57:22.599 t know them beautiful or chas. Well, thank you. It goes with 625 00:57:22.719 --> 00:57:28.480 this super- rich rhythm. We' re practically saying goodbye later. I 626 00:57:28.599 --> 00:57:34.639 blew up the show. Thank you very much, as always for being here 627 00:57:34.719 --> 00:57:37.320 in this disca area sharing the microphone with me and, well, also to 628 00:57:37.480 --> 00:57:42.280 those who really listen to us. Thank you very much, a real pleasure 629 00:57:42.320 --> 00:57:45.880 after this song with a tasty rhythm of those that it is better to listen 630 00:57:45.920 --> 00:57:47.400 to the rhythm and let you be carried away by the music. I' 631 00:57:47.440 --> 00:57:52.599 m waiting for you next week too, so I can share with you a 632 00:57:52.639 --> 00:57:57.960 new number of disca and thank you very much to all the people who are 633 00:57:58.000 --> 00:58:00.719 behind in order to make these spaces come true. So it is lacking, 634 00:58:01.039 --> 00:58:07.760 well, we listen next week in areadisca, where capacitism dances to us to 635 00:58:10.199 --> 00:58:15.440 stop for now, but we will continue step by step in favor of inclusion. 636 00:58:15.599 --> 00:58:19.760 Come back soon that there is no cadenero in the disca area