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Let us get to the last muscle fiber in your body. You'
re about to come in. Welcome to our disc area, welcome to our
disca area, a place where capacitism goes dancing. Welcome and welcome once again,
to the disca area where capacitism comes out dancing. And this thing you
hear is still what' s left of me. Master Pedro Infante used to
say that way. I had a stream of voice and I was model falset
And well, we faked him a little bit more than necessary. How you
are already it' s like Don Pre Thank you for allowing me to accompany
you in this microphone and, obviously, I' m super happy. How
about your little week Hello, Val Ti, well, so rich. The
truth is I' m enjoying it and so are you for what I was.
You took them cold and now And now because I didn' t get
the curse of the drunk abandoned man, I don' t even hear you
sick, but well I' m very glad you' re here, you
' re with us in this visca area Aha, I said here one with
the coma. Not that, no, thank you very much for being.
Also thanks to those who accompany us in this area viscar where the capacitism comes
out dancing today in one more broadcast, because it was back with content,
with a good humor, with music and good with information that we will be
giving to what the arc of this program and we go clear and we start
the month. But also, I don' t want to go any further
without reminding you to listen to us through all the Hiperborea Radio platforms, also
on YouTube, on the Hyperboria Radio channel, obviously and why not on RTV
Mexico m X and also, to write us also on all the Hyperborea Radio
networks. So, well, get in touch with us, which is very
important also to know that you like it, that you don' t like
it, that it beats you and, obviously, that you have a great
time like us. On this side, how do you see, yes,
and notice that good, because we are going to start with the talks to
talk and is that this interview had already the truth, because we wanted to
do it and that, for some reason or another, it had not been
possible. But, well, I want to introduce you to our guests today
valter to YOU and those who are listening to us, well. First I
present to you the teacher ibn Huerta Peleas Pedagoga, with nineteen years of experience
in the rehabilitation of people with visual impairment, is a teacher in diplomas and
courses for the inclusion of blind people and low vision. She is a co
- founder of SEA and this good one, that is, is the specialized
consultancy for the autonomy of people with visual disabilities. And, well, I
also want to introduce our second guest. She' s the graduate of optometria
e Fernández. She is a university academic in the octometry career, with 27
years of clinical and teaching experience in the area of low vision, she is
academic responsible between graduates and courses related to visual disability and she is also a
co- founder wants specialized consultancy for the autonomy of people with visual disabilities.
Well, thank you both very much for being with us today, with us
talking in this visca area and, well, telling us about it being a
good thing. Thank you so much for how well you are, thank you
very much for the invitation and, therefore, very happy to be with you
here in the Risque area and making capacitism go. As Sulena says, yes,
thank you very much. I' ve been well, then also avoid
how you are today hello, how about? Very good night, very well,
thank you very much for giving us this space and the opportunity to talk
with you. Thank you very much And well, because first we ask them
the same and bunne we start and stay with you that you tell us that
it is, it is a consultant of specialists initiated by Professor De Hernández here,
President and I and we intend and we are doing this work to be
able to provide specialty services to the visually impaired that lead people who have this
condition of life, acquire tools, skills of straits, supports that allow them
to be autonomous, as our name says and in this way, to be
able to cover both people with blindness and those who have low vision, with
special emphasis on the population with low vision and on the attention to this sector
in the process of rehabilitation and care. As we know many people who are
in the middle, sometimes low vision is not considered at all in these processes
and we also have some other services for the general public. That' s
where I wish the teacher could talk to us about the services we offer.
Yes, of course I' d like to. We really divided the entire
evaluation process into two parts. Ideally, people with low vision would have a
process of evaluation of functional vision prior to putting together their entire rehabilitation plan.
Then this allows us to identify what type of low vision presents, what are
the pathological causes that generated low vision, determine how is its functional vision or
its visual rest, as it is commonly called, and with this detailing whether
optical aids can be adapted from a conventional lens to a legura lens or a
magnifying or combined telescope of all these support tools and that allows the person to
continue doing his daily activities under the best possible conditions and in some way enhance
that rest of vision that they present. It still manages very different strategies and
it' s all about infaring before or if it' s about elderly people,
you manage this whole part of what visual stimulation is, specifically with infants
who have some visual rest and that suddenly what you have to do with them
is to teach them to know, because it' s not the same process
as a child who has complete vision, who is acquiring experiences through the visual.
And we can also adapt some special aids, as is the case with
therapeutic filters. Or to see the possibility of adapting some prisms after the process
of evaluating the functional vision. Well, I' m in contact with the
ivón teacher. I explain from the American side, because it is the part
that touches me what are the conditions and characteristics of the person who is our
user. And because she has a first contact with the person with the user
to see what will be the areas that will allow us to give like this
support to achieve their autonomy and independence. And because she works everything that is
orientation and mobility and activities of daily life, computing, proper use of cell
phone, applications for cellular all the process of writing. The part of optical
aids training, accessibility in the home and regarding guidance and support networks within the
assessment process also works a lot, as we also hear if there is any
emotional situation that is there, as that not treated or not very clear yet
for the process of the person with a disability. And then, if it
were the case and if it is considered relevant by our user, it is
derived to the psychological attention that the Maestra Juárez supports us in that part.
She is also a psychologist with a lot of experience in the management of people
with visual disabilities and in the other scenario, if our user had complete blindness,
I in that part, because I no longer do an evaluation process,
because, because mine is to measure a rest vision. Then it goes straight
to the specialized care given by the teacher ibone which is all this that I
just mentioned, or to psychological care. That is not in terms of the
attention of our services that we have left. But we also have some other
cultural and artistic activities that I think well, Ahorita, will tell us more
in depth what these activities are about. Truly a marvel and an exceedingly complete
service to which you are providing. And I' m going back a little
bit because it' s really worth sharing with us, as you well mentioned,
people who acquire any kind of disability. I consider and have talked in
this space that the most complicated topic is acceptance, the psychological theme of understanding
and learning to live with a loss. In this case, well, then,
the view that at the end of the day is a sense that takes
care of practically everyone, we have been taught to use it all the time
and all the day. In that sense, what is the origin of you
when you are born, how are you forming anti- going hatred final.
Yeah, this one, look. We' ve known each other for so
many years. Now the trajectory of both has been within the care of people
with visual disabilities. But from two years ago we started working together, with
the intention and with the aim of being able to work in a more interdisciplinary
way with the people who have this condition of life so that they can just
provide these tools. We both agree that we require an intervention each one from
his specialty, but that it must be interdisciplinary, that it is very necessary
that, for example, as I already mentioned, in the low vision is
attended, the visual rest is used and then the rehabilitation is continued. It
is then born of this interest in wanting to work for the autonomy and inclusion
of people with visual disabilities. And so, well, in this way,
with the profiles that we both have, we started working together, as we
already mentioned, and we also have the support of a psychologist for this super
important part that is the arrival of disability. I don' t say arrival
because it can be an acquired disability or it can be a birth disability.
And there it comes with the family and it depends on it how it depends
on how the family can address this new life situation, the life of this
new person with disabilities. So, yes, we believe that interdisciplinary work is
important, because we do not all know everything, but we are interacting with
people who have years of experience and can provide optimal attention to these situations.
And what you said earlier about the good depression of the situation you live in,
especially people who acquire disability, because it is one more. There.
You know that a lot of statistics is needed in terms of disability data in
general, but what is known is that, therefore, most people with visual
impairment experience these depressive processes. And one of the ways in which information,
training and clear information can come out of these fair processes is what can be
done, the professional training of what they can do, and so, the
coexistence of peers are some of the characteristics that support them to be able to
get out of this state of depression, anxiety and other things that arise in
the disability of uncertainty. You don' t suddenly know how life is going
to follow or what' s going to happen, because when a new situation
comes. Besides this, because, well, you' ve been telling us
a long time ago that they have some other services that, well, let
' s say, apart from the medical part, and that' s been
very related. And, well, we have continued in networks with people who
live with disabilities and who also share their knowledge and with the people who visit
them they can share more of them. Yes, yes, of course we
have, well we have. I believe we have both had both academic and
experience training in this part. Well, in my case, it would add
up to personal family experience, because I come from a family with a disability.
Since I have use of knowledge, my whole family for some reason or
another, has gone through some disability process, whether it be a motor in
a sister with down syndrome and well, so many stories. Not then do
I believe that living with disability in a direct way, because in the personal
case, it has been possible for me to open up to many people and
not only within the area of health, which, for example, I relate
to ostalmologists, psychologists, rehabilitation workers and others, but also to see other
issues that are complementary to life, such as culture, art and, moreover,
it is a question that, for me personally, I like very much.
I have there as some experiences, for example, with my sister,
who has d Although she likes to draw, and then this has allowed as
well as knowing these people are not, for example, Chinese Wattabe that she
is a plastic artist and she has an acquired visual disability. She already had
previous education as a plastic artist and from the process of visual loss, as
she now has to do just as to how to translate her work. Then,
to meet her, for she allowed us, for to begin her leg
not that she is the fatherest I can see. And second, therefore,
to appreciate the work that she manages from a very different field to what we
conventionally do, which is only through the visual. And now, then,
we can have a more direct interaction with the works, because we can touch
them, we are single ones and that generates other kinds of experiences. And
then, this already combined with the divon experience and with the relationships that she
has also acquired through her work, as we began to talk and say hear.
I know Chino, I know Maribel Ortega, I know xs and many
people who are in some way working for disability and who can be promoters of
much or knowledge, that nothing else stays in the medical part, in the
part of healthcare or in the part of only the prestruction of an optical help
or a process of empowerment, but open this scenario through courses, blind paintings,
through sexuality courses, through presentation of books that have written people with blindness
or low visicia and that have written in writing. How has your experience of
this process been that you have acquired or that, perhaps you have since childhood.
So we consider that in Mexico we do not have many areas or many
places do exist, but they are not well known regarding where we can go
to enjoy an artistic event, a cultural event. If I have a disability
and the spaces sometimes give us accessible or nothing else, they tell us what
' s in front of us, but it can' t even interact with
then. That is the idea that we have to open up more and more
these spaces that are aimed at people with disabilities and, in fact, are
not even directed only to visual disabilities, but generally, and that want to
appreciate this type of work that other people with disabilities do. That' s
what we tried to get down here. I would also like to add,
if I may, Hasbaltier, as Professor Eva commented, what we are doing,
apart from giving these services in a timely manner to persons with disabilities in
their autonomy process, as Professor Eva rightly says, we are doing workshops that
have in general to do with training towards the inclusion of persons with disabilities,
but also different workshops and courses where the very people with visual disabilities in this
case, who have many talents and many skills, can also continue to provide
these services. They can develop it as Shino, who gives their painting workshops
or Maribello that can give workshops on sexuality or so we can follow with an
infinity of names and activities and the right vision is inclusive, it is not
a workshop, they are not workshops directed for people with disabilities. They are
workshops for the population where people with disabilities will live without disabilities, where people
without disabilities intend not to see you live as a person who has visual impairment
is able to make a painting, to have a workshop and to do many
other things. People who are initiating rehabilitation processes or who are approaching some optical
aids, for example, may realize that there are possibilities, that you can
live a happy and productive life and so on with disability, that what is
required is other supports, such as rehabilitation and other issues. But you can
do that and we also do workshops that train other professionals to know about visual
impairment. We have already worked with targeted workshops, for example, for outometristas,
and that they also know how to work with low vision, that is,
to provide specific optical support for this population. So, well, the
idea of being fair is, in addition to working directly with the person living
in this condition of disability, to be able to do a training job in
support networks, but also around the population. And besides, you mentioned something
very important. Many times it' s happened that they diagnose you that you
' re going to have disability and you don' t know where to go?
They don' t know where to go anymore They' re just going
to tell you what they' re diagnosing, and then life accompanies you.
It is good that they are networking with optemologists, optometrists who at the end
of the day know where to continue with the support of a person who enters
a process of transition in their property and, moreover, in everything that surrounds
them talking about the issues, because precisely of their actions, why prioritize or
for what to prioritize people with low vision. Eva What happens is that low
vision is like good. I' m going to use a word that I
don' t like, but that' s what the same people with low
vision say, it' s like being in the limbo east. They don
' t have blindness and they don' t look good either. No,
then they are at that intermediate point that no one sees visible and that no
one else believes it exists. Example of this is some people who go on
public transport use your cell phone, with these accessibility tools through screen amplifiers and
at a very short distance, they go looking at their cell phone and go
with the green cane and then we have observed that they have made even memes
of those moments because they take pictures of other public transport users and then they
start making jokes. Not like he' s being blind. No. And
you see your cell phone, no, then there is a lack of knowledge,
to begin with in our population of what disability is and that the scenario
of visual disability is not only to talk about blindness, but just this decrease
in visual functions that does allow me to obtain certain information through the light of
the object of the image, but that is not the same or not experienced
in the same way as a person who has a 100% vision and who,
in addition, requires certain special supports, not as a telescope. Rarely
have they seen people with an optical device in public transport, on the street
or in cinema or in public settings. I mean. I think what you
' ve seen most is graduated lenses or a very thick thickness not too high.
So people say there' s really blind, not because they have a
very thick lens. I have had, for example, patients arriving and I
ask them what your reason for the test is and you tell me that I
am well blind? And then this one is sometimes drawn to their attention because
you tell them that you don' t know what the cerera is and they
' re not even low vision. They are patients who have very high graduation,
who have a high myopia and so on, but at the time of
placing the lens, they correct themselves and they see well to the hundred percent
a good vision is achieved, then the low, the low viscence has to
be visible and it has to be understood, apparently in order to have a
scenario, a more accessible space. Then the tool that the person with low
vision wants. Maybe it' s not gonna be the braile, but it
' s gonna be the green stick, for example. Or maybe this isn
' t gonna be the tactile support part, but it' s gonna be
the one to wait. To see to visualize the stage, through my optical
system to be able to move and do and, perhaps, to have a
long working distance and others and that, perhaps I will have to walk slower
with greater support to feel safe or safe from the space where I am.
I mean, it' s a very different drive. The behavior is different,
the lifestyle is quite different. And if we add that the person with
low vision does not see the same as the other person with low vision,
because, moreover, there are many disease scenarios that generate low vision, because
it turns out that we would have to understand that the person who has glaucoma
does not see the same as the person who has an associated macular generation of
age, and this person does not see the same as the person who has
cataract or who has retinopathy, diabetic, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. No,
and he doesn' t see like a child, and he doesn'
t care like a senior. And that is a very complex field of understanding
and assisting and it requires a lot of experience of this and of knowing how
to listen to the right person in order to have this greater clarity of what
is going on, of how to see and how I can help you not
in this process of therapy or rehabilitation. So we always think that it goes
down well, because rather, people always think that it is either to see
or not to see and forget. How do you say that in the middle
there is a wide range of greys, of colors, of a lot of
things, of styles, of seeing references and that, well, it is
just to support people to be able to use them in the most efficient way,
since that functional visual residue. No And well, that is certainly a
very, very important thing, because now I think that we have really talked
about how complete the service that this perspective offers, which, moreover, seems
very good to me, because it is not only multidisciplinary, but it is
also taking into account those who live with disabilities from many viewpoints tell us where
we find them, where we can visit them and contact them. Please,
yes, of course I do. Before that question, I would just like
to add to the emphasis of why support for low vision is also emphasized.
Statistically, and I love to give this fact, because the truth is when
we hear it. I think it surprises a lot of people. According to
him, the data of the Ineje and the last census of the two thousand
and twenty, visual disability occupies the second place, with two million six hundred
and ninety- one thousand three hundred and thirty- eight people living with it
with decision of life. The census of Lineji has three categories, population with
disabilities, population with activity limitations and population with some problem or mental condition.
The data I just gave is from the population with disabilities. If we go
to the population data with limitation in the daily activity, here the number of
people who have it so call it difficulty to see some Andolentes that we sense
that there are people with low vision. The data is eight thousand nine hundred
and seventy- four out of eight million pardons nine hundred and seventy- four
thousand eight hundred and fifty- three persons. Uh- huh So this one
as you see. This is a data that triples more than quadruples the number
of people with blindness. And then, if we did the exercise of adding
these two numbers, we would have that visual disability would occupy the first place
at the national level, with eleven million six hundred and sixty- six thousand
ninety- one people, which would represent fifty- six percent of the East
population with disabilities in Mexico and nine point, three percent of the total population
in Mexico. No, then we' re hitting almost ten percent in this
regard. Yeah, it' s not a minority. It is an important
population and even if it were a minority, it would have to be a
cared population and where they can find us. This one we can attend in
a virtual way, also in a face- to- face way. Then
they can locate me in a particular way on the phone fifty- five,
thirteen, eighty- seven, fifty- five, twenty- eight. In
a moment we give you the number of Professor ELBA and we find ourselves a
headquarters in an optical center called Snelnvision, which is on a central axis.
It' s Central Axis number two. Corner with chimalpopoca. We' re
in front of Valencia' s Conde Hospital. Metro doctors to tell you how
exactly to operate Leaving the doctors' subway, they don' t have to
walk or human cross, rather they don' t have to cross the block.
There we meet and they can also locate us by means of Whatsapp'
s little message to our numbers, I repeat mine fifty- five, thirteen,
eighty- seven, fifty- five, twenty- eight, and I
do not know if you also like to give your number teachers. Yes,
mine, via Whatsapp is fifty- five, six, nine, seven,
four, zero, forty- five. Yes, it is important of preference
that it be that way, because just because, sometimes we are with some
user. Well, in my case part I teach. So sometimes it'
s a little complex to answer. But if they leave us a message written
by this audio, we communicate immediately as soon as we have the possibility to
attend what they require we do collaborations right now. Right now, as the
trigon commented, we' re in Snellnvision collaborating with them. There we have
the space to do the whole evaluation process, in addition to the team and
the support of all the people who work on this vision land to be able
to perform the visual evaluation process. Or the intervention made by the teacher and
well the psychologist contact her directly through us when the user does not request it
and considers it feasible, because sometimes there is truth, because still not acceptance
to want the emotional assistance and she also attends them by video call, zoom
or face- to- face, depending on the preferences of each person.
And, as she said, the teacher and bone there are some people who,
because of their disability conditions, who have multiple disabilities, have visual disabilities,
motor disabilities, cannot move, cannot go where we are collaborating with Enelnvision.
And so in those cases where sometimes neither the relatives can support him to
go, because we can perhaps make some house appointment this peo. Well,
only in those kinds of situations. The ideal would be to see us directly
in the facilities of Snel Endvision, because, there we have all the instrumental
space necessary to do the whole process. But it can also be done that
way and for our colleagues who are botalmologists, optometrists or from some other medical
area who want to refer us patients, also right through our social networks that
can find us both on Facebook and Instagram, either script under disability and a
visual bass or through our email, which is also disabled arroba gmail com.
And so, they can give us their good processes their clinical summary or a
sheet where it is derived where they tell us what the reason is or sometimes
nothing else. They give them the number of our Whatsapps to contact us directly,
that is, of any of the ways that make them faster and more
functional. They can do it directly with us. All right, well,
thank you very much. There it is already, for the means of contact
and indeed, for we are happy that you have been with us today sharing
whatever and all the services you are providing. Thank you and we will keep
a close eye on the new work of what you are doing. On the
contrary, thank you very much for the invitation and we are, as I
said to Professor Age, collaborating at this moment there with SNEL in Vision,
but we are also seeing the close possibilities of other venues and alliances with other
types of specialists and the idea is to continue this interdisciplinary work. Thank you
very much, because very well all the success And well, because we continue
in this disco area where the capacitism goes dancing. It doesn' t matter
if you get up from your table or we take the service. We'
ll be right back, Hiperboria Radio. There are the best digital platforms for
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Central Mexico time, pow m just for your ears, drinks and smart gadgets
to follow the party. We continue in discar area We are back already super
fast in this visca area where capacitism comes out Dancing. We' ve already
missed the first half hour and the truth is super fast. I am very
pleased and happy that you are still here with us to remind them to write
to us and follow us through our social networks and to tell us what they
think of this content. And, well, we' re still worth this
week with something that' s given us a lot to talk about on social
networks, especially among the community of people with visual disabilities And we' re
talking about a decision that kids Dream Reader made, that' s a software
right now we' ll talk about, and that, well, it'
s going to be charged to users when the license, because it was a
one- time one. That' s right. Let' s put some
in context. There are programs that come to defoul on cell phones and there
are programs that are payable that allow people with visual disabilities to read a book,
read an article, read different files and that also come with options in
which you can interact with those files in different ways. EPU files, PDF
files, text files, text text, intricate, etcetera. World. Anyway
and voice Reader is created in fact, first it went out foréphons a
few years and with these novelties of being able to start to have a greater
interaction with your books, with your documents. And then it also takes out
the Android version. And then he also pulls out a version that was a
scanner. It is a scanner in which, as you could no longer interact
with the files or documents you had, but also be able to read an
article or scan a sheet and access its contents through exact drug starlets, that
is, twenty zero, things that were very possible, especially for people with
visual impairment who live alone or who do not have at the moment a person
close to them who can read it. Not then, because it was a
marvel and moreover, three- tiered that are called ah application is correct and
from the beginning the application was always paid. It wasn' t very expensive
and in fact, it was more expensive for i is than for Android,
who used Apple devices, because it paid us a little more expensive. But
it had many advantages because in addition, not only for blind people with visual
impairment, but also for people with low vision or even for people without disabilities
who had the best tired sight or something Vois dream ridder gave you many reading
options in terms of textures, sizes, number of lines, separation, that
is, it does have as a visual configuration, because very sharp, interesting
and very important to be able to read. And besides, because voices that
you could have on your phone or buy that well, the voices sold separately,
clade, of course, separately and there were very good and therefore voice
engines. Then we had very beautiful, feminine, masculine voices, with different
tones Then you can choose a Spanish voice with a Chilean accent, in Spanish
with a Mexican accent, etcetera. No, I mean, we had a
lot of options there, or who we don' t love as much versatility.
I' m not the one with the phone. I understand this reading
speed well. But also, the program, because it does have one and
I think that so many blind people were looking for it, the reading rhythm
is very good. So, if you respect the score fairly well, that
' s something that many other applications don' t do and, as you
well say, then, well, it' s always been cost. In
fact, you also tremescan paid separately, no, but it was a single
payment you lowered it and she and she had very good reviews and between the
Community, because it has been a very well- received, well- received
application and also, as it is within the top ten of which yes or
yes, not clear, because at the end of the day, it was
an application to which they had spent too much time and too much programming,
listening surely to many people with visual disabilities, users and users who, because
they actually made a product accessible. Not because, obviously it was less than
ten dollars, ten or so we were heard. I' ve already had
half a face. I paid for it in almost seven hundred pesos. Look
there in thirty- five, but come on, I mean, a one
- time payment. You say, it' s an app I' m
going to occupy forever and ever, because, besides, obviously a lot of
people if they sold it to you, no. And of course because,
like all apps that makes you pay and that blackout is forever and ever.
Or now that the monthly or annual payments, i e subscription payments, have
been put into effect, and that many companies have seen that from there they
get very good business, well, said some intelligent, because let' s
see how we get more business out of here and at the end of the
day, because we do not deny that the application has made important advances,
as you well mention it. In particular, and in a personal capacity,
the most attractive to me, for it was the power to give the speed,
rather than the tipping or more than the inflection in the voices, the
speed that I wanted and that I felt comfortable to be able to read what
I wanted to read, not things that other programs that are accessible, like
the Native of Is himself, for example, that is accessible and everything,
but you don' t have those let' s say lujitos or curiosities.
So, well, you buy your app and you walk it all over the
world, but suddenly, because they look like a fencing boss I know why
I own it, change it, weed it and then the new owner.
He said. Ah welcome be, as many blind ones love you, for
I love you too, but draw more the na. So, now,
we' re going to charge everyone a monthly, monthly or annual subscription that
they see that I' m four and no more. We scraped their wallet
in December. No, and the truth is that it is something that I
expect the authorities, mainly European and American, because if they assert the rights
of consumers, because at the end of the day, because it is how
you put an analogy when we are talking out of the air, you are
quite right. It' s not like you buy a house, an apartment
you just paid for. It' s already yours and you' ve put
it in, because I don' t know you' ve settled in,
you' ve got your samples and the former owner comes and tells you or
it comes like that in lava. Someone' s gonna tell you what you
think I liked that one, but I' m gonna have to rent it
because it' s gonna be monthly. Yeah, and I' m gonna
charge you a lanita for being in this apartment. I mean, it'
s illogical, no, because that' s what he' s doing.
Bois dren is grabbing you, because just like it is an application that has
been, because quite well ranked in general, but it seems to me that
it is an abuse. No. Now let' s say he' s
going to see and I know I' m also programming. I know that
good as programmers, because we have to live from something, but it seems
to me that the dissatisfaction of the users are not, they do not necessarily
lie in that the collection is monthly, but in the way it was made.
Not when I sell you a product that' s forever and then I
tell you I' d better charge you monthly. So it seems to me
to be an unethical way of doing it. Many pay for monthly applications and
we know that, so if they are paid with greater or lesser taste.
No, well, you know, for example, Microsoft, well, we
pay the good guy. We see who we pay annually for our office service
of three hundred and sixty- five. No, but you know if from
the beginning of politics it' s clear that it is. No. You
' re paying all office a year and if you want to continue the service,
you have to pay another year. No and Mira makes sense what they
' re trying to do, but it' s totally wrong to see.
Yeah, that' s right. If you have to pay for your subscription
to music or television and they are monthly and you do it, well,
you have to pay, then also something that in theory will leave you more
and will bring you more, because many busy people too, because to study
or to have access to other documents. It' s super good. But
here I think the channel can be on two sides. One. If what
you want to be a business and you' re buying is no longer a
program that has eight hundred thousand customers who are already users and that already buying
that program and you want to do that and you already bought the source code,
then, even your application, you change the name and the one that
is, well, I' m going to support them for so long and
it' s that clear or the other. To the new subscribers, to
whoever has, who has already made it, well that' s good.
At the end of the day, blind, truly blind, they will continue
to exist. They' re not, we' re not dying. The
blind are going to shit, no, no, why aren' t they.
You insult people with disabilities, of course not, but I do go
a lot of people who use it. Yeah, but I' m locking
myself in. Let' s say to the niche audience that priority will be
who consumes it, not what it will lead to the application. Then the
blind will never end, never mind. No. Then what is the first
niche of business is charged to the new ones who were already, well,
they already had. No, because if you ask for your Apple account or
you' re going to do a new account or something or Android, well,
there you will already be charged, not because it' s a new
subscriber two I stop giving support, I create a new one and obviously those
I charge you, of course and then good that as users we would have
passed it to you. But finally it was something much more valid to make
you that I charge you for something that already covers you and that sheik you
was not going to charge you. And he talks more about a business ethics
line- up is already a bit ethical, because sorry, because at the
end of the day it' s clear, like all applications, like everyone
else, when we don' t read the little ones. Greetings to Netflix,
for example, because you' re going to change consumption policies as the
gift wins unfold, because they' re going to lose it. But one
thing has to be taken into account is that all these policies cannot be as
the will unfolds. That' s why there are international trading organizations, not
just then. That is why I say, and in that comment, I
hope that the European Union, because it can really attract this case. I
hope that people in Europe will also do so as hard as other tasks have
done. No and you can do that you can replicate it in the world,
because, from the outset right now, we are living and I touch
it like a yaz parenthesis this issue where already by the own policies of respect
and care and protection of consumers, because now it turns out that we are
like countries and manipulated and more free or more controls and less controlled. For
example. Well now i oos, because you have to let download applications,
not only from other stores, as it was going to be gionally, but
also from web environment in Europe, but in America, because obviously not there
will continue everything going through iTunes. Then it makes us at the end of
the day, to some extent, primary and second- use users, and
that' s not father. Sure, yeah, no, and look.
I think that in this specific case and with all the applications, no,
but it seems to me that as a user we can be unconformed, because
through the means of the official channels to do it not direct, in the
application and in the stores of our devices, but to make it a blog,
that is to say suddenly if daughtersmin goes and complains, well, Jasmina
is angry. No, but I think so. Common, common we join
and go and put comments and put a star, well, yes. It
is something that must necessarily turn to see no and manifest ourselves. I mean
no, I' m not, I' m not against paying. I
' m not saying that everything is given away, because the na is that
the blind want everyone to give away. Not that I am against it is
that it was sold in one way and then one day they wake up and
want it to be from another. It' s not like it' s
already, it' s the business this way and it' s good,
so please, also inside the business. No, but, you know,
keep something new, I mean, you know what. I believe and say
this too finally, it is an opportunity. Right now there are many communities
that say hear and what other program we can use, apart, as you
say well, from books that they have in Ios or some applications that they
have of our swarfons. This is what we' re going to use,
because, actually, because we didn' t really know as a married community
so much with the app that we hadn' t explored anymore. I believe,
however, that this is the right opportunity for other applications to come out
as well and that we can explore and hope that the Community will be heard
and that we can have other alternatives. I' m not throwing this hecto
at vooysdrem but that we can choose and then you choose this one. Whether
to pay or not. Or that there are others that have characteristics similar or
superior to those that you now drive or sdream and I think that' s
where the topic has to go. Not because, at the end of the
day, it was a very comfortable application that went very well and that also
stopped interested many programmers. It' s an opportunity, especially for programmers and
blind programmers to say no more than horns that I' m waiting for you
to sell me something to my needs and to do what you want, as
a customer. Not past, not with screen readers, that is, in
a moment, because we really didn' t have competition. Not the reader
is screened or it' s me and then it was joos and jos.
Not sure. Then suddenly, well, he came to Evedas. Now the
same Windows narrator who was a joker, doesn' t have, but well,
he' s already starting to compete a lot like a screen reader,
already with features from a good screen reader. Not then, because that'
s good that we' re having alternatives and then, as clear consumers,
we' re not, of course, and we' re not all getting
married with an app. But, well, we' ll see about that
in the next few months, while those of us who read a lot I
don' t know what we' re going to do. Amazing a while
Ibox can be a smooth one. It' s hard for me to get
used to boxing. I' ve already tried and it costs me a lot.
But yes, then, or get into the store and explore and also
start sharing those others. Sure, of course, you must see around gn
projects or play make expedition and send us planetary. Of course they find some
is this way. Welcome and we test it, even test it here,
record it, connect the live with the phone, test it live how you
hear it. And, well, we recommend and go and experiment together and
together wonderful, because let' s go to jazz music ahy this that you
are very baby, this that I love, that makes very good count that
we will hear something from Mark Ronson with Bruno mars that. That' s
pretty rich. You can imagine which, because obviously you and Ob Down Funk
listen to it in Ariadisca, where capacitism comes out dancing gold and hard High
School sl who or three come out worth either the series t x o sa
bre Lord lin N, o S o s t u gracias, San San
by Wiles o s j B Juli q uiere omac or that you are skel
Snche Julia Howe, Jack the Who w s s s s n week o
pllua o gracias u N o N o S O S Be the nky wonky
wonky Wo konk Kyoko n o N o s B. But he doesn'
t know them beautiful or chas. Well, thank you. It goes with
this super- rich rhythm. We' re practically saying goodbye later. I
blew up the show. Thank you very much, as always for being here
in this disca area sharing the microphone with me and, well, also to
those who really listen to us. Thank you very much, a real pleasure
after this song with a tasty rhythm of those that it is better to listen
to the rhythm and let you be carried away by the music. I'
m waiting for you next week too, so I can share with you a
new number of disca and thank you very much to all the people who are
behind in order to make these spaces come true. So it is lacking,
well, we listen next week in areadisca, where capacitism dances to us to
stop for now, but we will continue step by step in favor of inclusion.
Come back soon that there is no cadenero in the disca area